I need to try. the I call to order the regular meeting of the Apalachial of the City Commission. Today is Tuesday, December 3rd. If you would, please stand for the invocation and the pledge of allegiance. Gracious Father, we come before you, give me you glory, giving you honor, giving you praise. Thank you for who you are, thanking you for what you've done for us, oh God. And we give you praise for this place we call home, the city of Appalachia, Colagod, and we ask that you continue to guide, lead, and bless us, oh God, cover us and keep us, oh God, Lord, we thank you for the leaders of this community, of this city, oh God, we ask that you are continuing to bless, lead, guide, and give us wisdom, knowledge, and understanding God. And we thank you for who you are, and we so much give you praise. In Jesus' name we pray, amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the public for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. the agenda. So before we motion to adopt the agenda, we need to make an amendment. One, add southern group for presentation and update. Two, pull item number two from unfinished business, the grant approval policy. So with those amendments to the agenda. The grant approval policy. So with those amendments to the agenda, may I have a motion? Make a motion. I saw them group on the lay on number two and unfinished business. I have a motion by commission and grow. May I have a second? George. I have George second I'm sorry George Motion and you second second George motion. Thank you. I'm have a motion by commission to grow the second by commission George discussion Gary none all in favor? I. Any opposed? Motion carried. At this time, we will have a presentation from Southern Group. Folks in the room. And thank you all. I'll keep it really green light on. It is. I think so. I'll keep it brief. I know you guys have been in workshops all afternoon. I was looking at your ag light on. It is. I think so. I'll keep it brief. I know you guys have been in workshops all afternoon. I was looking at your agendas on the drive over. Just a couple of quick things. We're here for one of the first committee weeks is this week in December. It's just the house this week. And they're mostly in training this week and the Senate will be in training next week. But I wanted to give you all a quick update of where we're at looking at this session. Yes, one moment. Kate, will you please identify yourself? Oh, yes. Absolutely. Kate DeLoch with the Southern Group. I am your state lobbyist in Tallahassee. I've got with me Olivia, who is new to our Southern group team and I'm bringing her onto team Apollotica Cola so she got the lucky gig this round. So thank you all so much. Just wanted to provide you a little update with we've obviously gone through an election. We have new leadership coming in in the House and the Senate so there are going to be a few changes this year that I wanted to touch base on. From my perspective, and certainly, if this changes for the commission, please let me know. But to me, the two biggest things that we've got on our agenda for session are stewardship funding and oyster licenses. That will take a big part of our focus. I've also talked to Travis about if there are other projects that are road related projects, general government, which could be things like the other half of the fire hydrants that we need to get. It could be even something historic, even though those are a little bit trickier. If there's other shovel ready projects that the city has, now would be the time to identify them because we could definitely ask for those. I think the hydrants are a great one. It hits on public safety. It's also a budget silo that there are fewer projects in, so it can be a little bit easier to kind of thread that needle. So I would definitely recommend over the next month or so if there's any other projects other than the stewardship funding that we want to go for. We have not, they haven't released the new forms yet that they make us fill out. We're expecting that those will come out this week. And as soon as they do, we'll get them over to you guys so that we can start working on them. In that same vein, one thing we're going to do a little bit differently this year, just from a strategy perspective for the stewardship funding, is because of the bill that was passed, we don't have to have a form, the way that a traditional appropriations project would. This district is so big. The area, the geographic area, and the number of counties that your members have to represent is so big that I actually think we're I'm going to fill out a forum this year for our stewardship funding only to help their aides track it through the process because I've seen you know the spreadsheets and how they track their projects and I think it will make it easier for them to keep track of where stewardship is in the budget process. Even though it doesn't technically need one, it won't hurt us. The other thing we can do is use that description section of the form to really hammer home that the city is authorized already from the bill that we passed. And this is another reason that that will be an advantage. The new House and Senate leadership have been sworn in. The Senate president is going to be in a spectacular gentleman named Ben Albritton, Ag background, really, really spectacular guy. The House Speaker is going to be a gentleman named Danny Perez, who is out of South Florida. He is really young and he wants to shake things up. He's restructuring a lot of the committees. He's made it pretty clear he wants strong matches on projects. He doesn't want to see organizations coming in and asking for just state funds and not putting something in. Now, you can get creative with that in terms of what counts as a match, but I think he really wants to see that buy in locally. I see this benefiting us to a great degree when it comes to the stewardship funding, because the word that we're all hearing is don't come with projects that aren't statewide significance that don't have solid matches and that aren't, that really makes sense for the state to fund them. And we check all of those boxes. We even have statutes that reference that designation. So I think this year that will actually help us in that conversation because as he's looking through for projects to not fund, we've got a really good explanation for why we're asking for state funds. So that is sort of the approach on stewardship on oyster licensing. This was something that we've talked about before that obviously in December 2025 is when that is moratorium ends. And currently it's in statute that you all have to be the ones to administer the licenses. And the funding it looks like is then used for a variety of things, education and things like that, but not for actually administering the licenses. So in anticipation of that, this is gonna be the session if we do wanna change that, if we wanna try and put that licensure under a state agency or if there's a desire to adjust the statute to at least recognize that there's gonna be a cost both financial and staff time to administering that program. This would be a really good opportunity because we'll be in Tallahassee, we can meet with the Agriculture Commissioner and his office, we can then change any statute that we need to there. So I do have some of my partners in Tallahassee working on that already, but as you guys talk about exactly what we want to do if we want to transfer it entirely or if we want to change the statute a little more specifically, we can do that, but this will be a good chance and we'll help you guys be protected when that moratorium ends. And the last thing I've got for you is just schedule-wise. We are obviously up this week. We've got the Senate up next week for training and then committee weeks really kick off in January. So they'll have two weeks in January. I believe it's the two middle weeks, but I will confirm that after this meeting, I'll send an email out to everyone that has all of the dates so that you guys can have that handy. But we'll have two weeks in January, three weeks in February. The last week in February, they let everybody go home and pack. And then we're right up here for session in March and April. So it'll be a late session this year. So that bodes well for us, because we've got lots of time in January and February to do some outreach. That being said, because we're looking at stewardship and potentially some licensing changes, I don't think it is a bad idea to have some presence in Tallahassee too. So I'm also gonna send that to you so that you can look at your schedules. And if you want to come to Tallahassee, I think it would be really helpful for us to have a consistent presence up there, meeting with the subcommittee chairs, meeting with, you know, Commissioner of Agriculture. So as you see, if there's weeks that you want to come or that you would like us to work with you on a schedule, please don't hesitate to reach out to me. I'm happy to coordinate that. It helps me because it helps them see that you all as elected are invested as well. They see me all the time. So it definitely helps to break that up a little bit. And those were the big issues that I had, but happy to answer any questions. the so are we taking the initial request the layout for the and we're basing our request on that yes so my suggestion would be that we put in a form for the full 5 million authorized under the stewardship act and that would help the legislature to see we're asking for what was authorized in the bill. One of the things I talked to Travis about working on in the next couple of weeks is you know we've done this before in the plans that we had, but I'd like to go back through and really make sure that we can create a tight one-pager that says, you know, here's what we're going to spend this $5 million on. Project X, Project Y, whether it's the, in one of the things we talked about was the injector project with the drinking water. That's a great one that you can say, you know, this is going to be $450,000, $500,000 for phase one and here's the impact it will have. So I think that that will help us so that they can see really clearly We're not just asking for five million Here's exactly how we plan to spend it and you will work on that and pull that together and submit a draft to us prior to Yes for that one, definitely. For any other projects, I think you can just, you know, that you guys want to pursue let Travis know and he and I can work on the forms, but for stewardship because that one's a different beast. I'll work on that form and get it out to you guys with a draft to make sure everybody's comfortable with the language. Okay. Thank you. Um, the oyster licensing. What is your, your professional opinion as far as getting that change? Do you, do you think that it will happen? What I'd like to do is start with DAX, with Department of Ag, and pitch to them what would be ideal. And if that's you take it over, then I think that's what we ask. If they come back and say, no way we're not doing it, then I think maybe we can look at a plan B of, okay, we need to adjust the statute to at least allow us to collect x percentage of this licensing fee to use for our own administration of the licenses. So I think there's a couple of options, but I would say how likely it is is dependent on that first meeting with DAX to see what their perspective is. And we did put out some feelers there. I have not heard back yet, but I'm hoping as soon as we see what their temperament is for that, that'll give us an idea. So what is the timeframe for this body to get you information? So we've got a little bit of time. Session doesn't start until March. They have not given us a deadline for when the appropriations forms are due by, but my guess is it will be sometime in February. So as long as, you know, January-ish, we can have an idea. That would be great. Because the forms aren't too overly complicated issue. We can have an idea that would be great. Because the forms aren't too overly complicated as long as we know what we're filling in and the stewardship one we can start now. Those are all the questions I have for you right now. Commissioner Grove, do you have any questions? Just a quick. So following our outline, our plan that avoid came up with, the stewardship plan. Yes. So that these ask are in there, correct? Yes. So the way the stewardship is written, it's pretty all encompassing on water quality and water treatment. But for anything outside of that, we would need to do a separate form. Yeah. But you feel like those projects that you're thinking of all the lines. I do. I think the majority of them do. And that's the one thing we do want to make sure is that if we're asking for 5 million, we can spend 5 million. But I think we can. And Travis and I will make sure we've got a really solid project list for them. That's all I had for now. Commissioner George. The last time you were here you mentioned that you might this year want to Try to amend the bill so that we go beyond the five years that's where I guess we're in the third year now Yes, ma'am have not received any funding. Yes So that's still something you want to do or is this with a year, would this not be the best year to try something like that? Excellent question. Yes, so my recommendation would be that we hold on that option only because we've still got a couple of years. So I'd like to take this approach with doing a form and working it that way this session, especially with the new House and Senate leadership. and we're still in the process of making a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to make a decision to down the 5 million, which I think we have a very good chance of, but even if we are successful, next year I would still want to extend it out because we want you guys to get the full five years of funding and we haven't gotten those first two yet. So even if we're funded at 5 million this year, I would still recommend that next year we go back and push that date out so that you can take full advantage of the five years. I just think from a strategy perspective, it might be better to try this route first and then save that for next year. You said you're gonna get back with us about the oyster licenses, what the various options were gonna be. The reason I'm asking is I think it's when there are being issued, I think it's very important for them to be issued locally because it'd be difficult for people that work on the water to go to tall-hazzy to get a license or to go online to get a license. So exactly. I think that's something we're going to have to consider before we decide what we would like. I think you're exactly right. And that's kind of why I mentioned that second part of the statute that lists what the funds can be used for, because I think you're right. It may be a situation where to keep it local and to keep it easily accessible for people who are on the water, maybe you do want to keep it here, but you want to provide some funding for the city to administer it. So that is another option. And really it's up to you. I mean, we can take the temperament of the, you know, ag commissioner and see what they're thinking. But if you all want to keep it local and we want to try and get administrative funds covered, I think that's an option. Right now the statute is really clear. It says, it is the city of Apacicola. So changing it will be, will be, you know, a lift either way, but that's entirely up to you. I think if it makes sense to keep it local, then maybe we just adjust it so that you guys can be made whole because it is going to take staff time and administration. One last question I had is is there a schedule for the legislative delegation meetings? So I have not seen Franklin County's post yet. I will definitely keep an eye out and let you know as soon as it does. I can also check in with Rupshof tomorrow and Simon next week and see when they're planning on holding it. Most of them are starting just now to roll out the dates for those. I've seen some in like late December. So my guess would be we'll get a date for the Franklin County delegation meeting too. And that would be an opportunity, a great opportunity depending on when it is to have somebody come and speak on stewardship and I can help with talking points for that as well just to make sure we don't miss an opportunity to be in front of them and say, hey, this is what we're working on this year. That's all I had. Thank you. Just want to say thank you so much and bringing up everything with the oyster licenses. There's already a lot of chatter in town everybody looking forward to debate potentially getting to open next year and whatnot. So 2025 is going to be a fun year. Can't wait to see it all come out. Exactly. Thank you. Your commission, a grove? Just since I serve on the committee, the partnership committee, there's, the Bay is closed until January, 2026. So December 31st. However, they may choose to leave it closed. So just so there's no false impression. Yes. That's what FWC and everybody is. Yes. We don't know what it's gonna bring. We definitely don't, this will just be the last. Yes. If there's no oysters. Right, and true. But we definitely don't wanna wait too long and then have it open and not have a session to be able to make change. Right, so, but you're right. I mean, there's a lot of factors that are going to have to be considered there. Just because we don't want to lead people down the wrong road. But the oyster license thing was shifted to the city. But they've always been issued locally. We have a DAX office here. And there's an education training component that goes with that. So the seminar. Is it a seminar still? Or is it a like? there's an education training component that goes with that. Yes. So the seminar. Is it a seminar still? Or is it a like? Yeah. And the committee is talking about improving those that training. So there may be a way to keep it to move it to DAX and keep it local. So I think there's a few things to consider. That's the way it's always been done. And then they kind of went here. You guys take this and ran out the door and changed the law on us. So that was strange. I love it when that happens. Well, thank you all so much. I will, as soon as I get back to my computer tonight, I'll send out an email just to everyone with the dates for the committee weeks in January and February and the dates for session so that you can mark your calendars. And then as I get delegation meetings and small county days and things that might be good opportunities to come over. I'll definitely reach out as well, but you all know where to reach me. Thank you, Kate. So much. We appreciate it. Thank you so much. Have a good day. Thank you, Olivia. Public comment. Richard Bracken. the . . Richard Bracken, 7-4-15, County Road 38, Port St. Joe, given you guys an update on the recycling project that we've been working on for the past few months. Since our last meeting we did secure warehouse space in Franklin County. Mr. Davis, Mr. Moron, was able to assist of the scurrying space from that space. We got the license for that biological. Thank you very much. We delivered bins to all our customers and during the whole process, delivering bins several more customers signed up during that whole process of it was a scramble for the past right up to Thanksgiving. So we delivered right at two dozen bins and today was our first pickup day. So we picked up all the collectibles and we're gonna deliver to the warehouse area and tip it, sort it out and measure out what was actually collected. So kind of the segue over to the next comment. Question is going forward on a monthly basis rather than I come into it and meaning, I'll probably give Mr. Wade an update of what we've collected and I've tried to give it to Mr. Fundadavis about what information he shares with the state on the recycling effort. So what information that the state is going to ask for the recycling I can share with Mr. Wade relating to the city of Appalach's co-less progress. Any questions? So how do So how do you feel? I mean, is the first pick up, I mean, do you have any thoughts at this point or are you just trying to? Well, it's going as I was planning. As we were delivering, it was a slow rollout of the bins. It was a good slow rollout because everybody was so excited. They got the bins, they were sharing it with the children, they were talking about where to put it, what to collect in it, talking about the hoating, sharing with the neighbors. So I think the enthusiasm that your residents have related to the recycling is really, it's contagious, hopefully they'll just keep spreading it. We'll get I'll document the process of how we deliver the bins, how we go about using the route manager to map out the homes that we collect from and then go to the site and then tip it how to sort out how to measure it. Those that way the process that we kind of I'll work on for the next few weeks because I want to get it down before we hit the rent season. So I think once we get it going, it will be going on just talking to the I think just the enthusiasm of your residents is really exciting. Thank you. Thank you so much. Barbara Macintntyre. Our McIntyre 490 11th Street. Looking at your agenda, I did not know where you were going to talk about flooding and stuff like that. So I like to address that even though I didn't fill that out. And that's about a couple of weeks ago, the city was cleaning out the drainage streets and I asked them then if they were going to do it all up and down the hill and I was told that they were so do you have a schedule for that Because I can tell you right now 11th and I believe it's The street to north of MLK does flood that drainage thing fills up They're working on all of them. Okay. I also wanted to say separate of MLK does flood that drainage thing fills up. They're working on all of them. I also wanted to say separate. To thank you, I see that the street signs, they're slowly being replaced and they're more legible. Can we add stop signs onto that as well? Also on the hill. But what I wanted to talk to specifically, and that's what's on the list, is that many of us have sprinkler systems. In the sprinkler systems, we get charged in sewage when the water is not going into the sewer, it is going into the ground. So I would like somebody to explain to me why that is, why we get charge extra for having a sprinkler system. And I realize that not everybody has a sprinkler system, but that should be easily remedied if I need to get a list of people who have, so it can be of Individuals who do have a sprinkler system so that we can have our bill adjusted but getting charged to almost a hundred dollars Extra this month seems a little excessive to me. About that either at the speedy or afterwards that'd be fine. We will have either Shinneja or comments or manage a way to reach out to you and to explain that. Thank you for bringing that to our attention Any other public comments at this time New business Prado street speed limit change commission Elliot Thank you, Mayor Just reading over the brief summary, Porto Street has been subject numerous complaints from residents over the years about motorists traveling in excess speeds. I believe it was about a year ago, or it may be closer two years ago now, we did have some residents of Porto Street come and ask if there was anything that could be done to try to help curb speeds down that way. the road. The road is a road that is So it has been a problem there for a while. Earlier this fall, I was driving out towards the airport along Prado when it turns to Brownsville and low and behold, there was a 25 mile an hour speed limit sign. And I said, huh, well, I didn't think that anyone would lower the speed limit on this road. And I think that it would be responsible for us in keeping with that to lower the speed limit of Prado from 30 miles an hour in keeping with the county to 25 miles an hour. It is a pretty high traffic area. You don't have sidewalks on that street. There's a lot of pedestrian traffic. So I think it would be in good keeping for us to lower our speed limit on Prado to 25 miles an hour. I spoke to some of the residents on that street. They were supportive of making that move, but want to know how we're going to put teeth out to enforce it. So my proposal would be to use our handy-dandy new radar sign and bring that down there and using that data and having patrols in the area if we catch people speeding then write some tickets. Are you making a motion? Yes, I would make a motion to approve reducing the speed limit of Proto Street from 30 miles an hour to 25 miles per hour utilizing the city's radar sign and increasing law enforcement the road to the road to the road to the road to the road to the road to the road to the road to the road to the road to the road to the road to the road to the road to the road to the road to second discussion. I have a second by commission a growth discussion. Chief, what do you think? We good. I'm... Oh, I'm going to make him get up. Sorry. Well, we have received complaints. We have did traffic statement. We have received complaints. We have did traffic studies and according to the 30-mile an hour speed limit, it hadn't been that much percentage of speeders. We did the study, managed our way. We both looked at it and it wasn't. I mean, if you want to go to 25, that's up to commission. But to put in a motion that for us to write tickets, I don't think we need to do that. Do we, Dan? It doesn't need to be in the form of a motion, but it's okay for it's just a focus enforcement. That will be the only issue, you know, but as far as the 25 of that's what you all will work to control it. Yeah, I'm just thinking, um, Commissioner Elliott, do you want to do that? I'm just going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to control it. Yeah, I'm just thinking, Commissioner Elliott, do you have a feel for numbers of how many people? I just don't want them to start coming in and going, oh my God, 25's too slow. And I agree, it's very, very, I've heard complaints over the years. I think a lot of that problem is, the houses are so close to the street. Yeah. And it probably looks like they go in faster than they are. Right. That's the complaints we get over and the side people think they're going. I mean, people think you're going 35, but you're really going 25. And it's hard to tell the difference when you're walking next to a moving vehicle how fast they're going 35 but you're really going 25 and it's hard to tell the difference when you're walking next to a moving vehicle how fast they're going. It is. So I'm not saying they're to hat and be in I'm sure there has been. I don't really honestly think it's to the point of what some people are saying some we didn't have no real high rate of speed on the traffic study. You know we we we we glad we had a sign there one time before already the radar sign as we try to move it around but we can put it back there. But that's uh that's up y'all. I know if you didn't catch many people going over three miles an hour. Does that mean we need to get it down because people who live there think it's too fast? Well, I mean, I can see it both ways. It is a lot of house, a lot of traffic, you know, it goes through there and the houses are so close. It can be a danger. Yeah, a lot of traffic, you know, goes through there and the houses are so close, it can be a danger. Yeah, and there's no sidewalks. So, that could be justified. If I may add, just general traffic laws in Florida, if there's not a speed limit posted anywhere, it's 25 miles per hour. So, theoretically speaking, every residential street in town has a speed limit of 25 miles per hour, and Proto is the only residential street that is a higher residential and the . The . The . The . The . The . The . The . The . The . The . I'm going to be a little bit wrong. I'm going to be a little bit wrong. I'm going to be a little bit wrong. I'm going to be a little bit wrong. I'm going to be a little bit wrong. I'm going to be a little bit wrong. I'm going to be a little bit wrong. I'm going to be a little bit wrong. I'm going to be a little bit wrong. I'm going to be a little bit wrong. where they really going between 25 and 30, or the speeder is going 40 and above. I mean, it seems like I live on the 17th Street Speedway. So I mean, I know the people there speeding is not that they're five miles over the speed limit. I mean, they're... If I remember correctly, I think it was something like 85% of the traffic was 35 miles an hour or less is how it read. It's your saying if we took the signs down, the speed limit would be 25. Is that what you're saying? They didn't know what I'm saying, no, I don't. I'm not the right. I'm turning the back question. Question was done. I mean, if the speed limit's 25 in residential areas were the speed is not posted. If there were no signs on Prado, that's right. So if you took down the 30 mile an hour signs, it would, well, and I say this, but yeah, need to know what the speed is. You got to have a sign. Yeah. And I mean, usually, especially if there's a change like that, you post it so people don't. It's to avoid confusion. And we don't need to be 30 miles an hour and then take the sign up and then then people somebody over for going 30. Yeah. I'm not suggesting that. I'm just trying to think like which way to go. I mean, if it's there was going to be 25, if there were no signs and why not make it 25. I've been different. Manager, If it's 25 out in the county and it's faster in the city, it's 30. You're in the more congested area that would just seem logical to make it 25 so that continuous speed limit through the same road. the city. That would just seem logical to make it 25 so it to continue a speed limit through the same road. That's just a thought. Yeah, and when we have it in the city in the residential areas anyway, so that is a residential area to you. So just a thought. Any further discussion? the motion by commissioner Elliott and a second by commissioner grow to reduce the speed limit of Proto Street from 30 to 25. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion carried. Thank you, Chief. the on actually can be literally effect as of the vote right right and post it it will be effective when it's properly posted and we probably need to get the counties information sign that says speed limit change like the county did when they added the stop sign on browns will just so people don't go flying through there expecting it to be 30 and all of a sudden that's 25. You might make and put on Facebook and some other things too. Yeah. So what is on the way? The best soon as you can get all of the legal requirements posted. I'll talk to public works and see if they have any 25-hour signs if not order a couple. Thank you. Next on the agenda item two and three. Flood playing variance one night for one 19 water street and one 25 water street. the same request. We can combine these two. We can combine these two. I have some kind of new information. Do you want to take the lead on it? If I could take the lead, although is there anybody here from? Yes. Sorry. Maybe come on up so you can hit me with the lead. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So do you want to you want to take the lead on it if I could take the lead although is there anybody here from? Yes, sorry So maybe come on up so you can certainly hit me with questions as well Please say your name and Um There we go now it is So I had received some email on this calls on this item I spoke to two of the commissioners on it that in the agenda package and the information submitted was the standard information. So you all did exactly what you were asked to do and supposed to do. So that's not the issue. But the issue was that because the code and there's two different standards, one for historic buildings, one for regular variance. This is the historic building one. They're shown on the historic register, which is what we use to determine whether it's a historic building or not. But we, and I say we, but the city, primarily the floodplain administrator and then it's incumbent upon the commission to confirm or affirm the floodplain administrators' variances, administrative variances that are granted. And the questions I got related to the determination that the rehabilitation of the building would not preclude the building's continued designation as a historic building, right, which is more of an architect. I think would be the one to, when I talked to the Florida Plane Administration, she said, well, an architect gives us that assurance. An architect usually says, hey, I'm familiar with what the renovations are going to look like, and it will not result in them being removed or losing the designation as a historic building. And then also the idea that the renovation is the minimum necessary to preserve the historic character and design of the building and that the materials provided just didn't quite provide that level of information. And I can put this kind of in writing to you but but what I, when I talk to, again, individually, the commissioners and the flip-up administrator, she thought that it would be fine and I mean, a good idea to table these items so that the applicant can provide that additional information and then it'll be included in the agenda at the next meeting and this matter will proceed. And just so everybody's clear and they can certainly hit me with questions because this is what we went into a lot of this. The standard for historic buildings is much lower than it is for a new construction. And the much like P and Z, because we adopted the state model, flood ordinance, the authority to grant the variance is a decision made by the certified flood plain administrator, certified by the state. And if someone has an issue or a complaint regarding the issuance of the variance, they would go to the state and say, hey, we think it was issued in error. If that's something, this is just general talk, not specific to this project. And what it does, what it leaves to the commission is sort of not a lot, right? The under the commissions role in this is literally the city commission's confirmation of the flood plain administrators decision and it talks about it. A regularly scheduled monthly meetings, the city commission will confirm that administrative decisions made by the floodplain administrator on variance requests. So in talking about this with the floodplain administrator and her experience with projects like this, what the state in drafting this as their model flood ordinance was trying to do was to have certified floodplain administrators make the variance decisions, have the commission obviously be aware of them and confirm them, but not make them, right? So our role as a commission is a little more limited than it would normally be under a variance for new construction. So hit me with, again, this is all just general education that's not for the commission as far as the two variances before you. The recommendation and I hate to do this on the fly but the recommendation would be to table it. I will get with you just to and very simply to have basically maybe an architect, the architect that you all have to just state that, hey, this is the, give some description of the rent, this expected renovations and that it will not result in the structure being taken off of the historic structure list. And I'll put this right. And then, and then basically the some narrative or description of the renovation that's going to take place. Okay. We kind of had a similar discussion. There's been a couple other buildings in town that we've done this variance on in the last year or two, one of them being the larger over on sacred and this we kind of had the discussion along these lines then. So at this point all because we have to engage in architect to design it. Well, we don't want to go spend thousands of dollars with an architect in an injured here to design something and then you guys tell us, well, we're not going to give you the aberring and you've got to turn it down. So, you know, at one point they wanted to renovate this building, then we found out because it's in a flood zone, we could not, we would have to tear it down and rebuild it. Until we decided to take advantage of this rule where it's on the historical registry, so we can renovate it without having to raise it above base flood, which would be impossible with that building. So from my understanding from this conversation once before, all we're asking for right now is confirmation that if we come up with a plan that is approved by everyone, we can proceed with having an architect and engineer work on plans that will come back to you, I guess, for approval. But we don't, that you will give us the variant, sake for saying that we do not have to raise the building above base flood. So the variant is just for the flood plain purposes. So we're not asking you to say, OK, go ahead and renovate however you want to. At this point, we're just trying to get confirmation and approval that we can get this variance so that we do not have to lift that building however many feet off the ground, which would not be feasible. And then we would engage the architect in the engineer, which is what we did on the other buildings. Then we would engage the architect in the engineer to come up with the plans they would have to come back for approval. And so what I'm, and I totally understand, because that was the topic of kind of going around, around chicken and egg, right? Is we would not expect someone to do all the design, all the construction plans, all of that. I totally understand that. You wouldn't want to go to that expense and then be denied the variance. You wouldn't go to that expense until you get the variance. Correct. And what my understanding, and again, in talking to the floodplain administrator and then also commissioners that may want to talk on this, but to kind of satisfy the concern that the proposed renovation, that it doesn't need to be the actual construction plans, but it would be instead of, I don't wanna say, I think Cutler Edwards, you know, the initial application, which has all this language in it, kind of boilerplate, saying you understand that you cannot make renovations that will make it resulted in it dropping off the historic register and that sort of thing. So he's certified to that but the concern is that he's not a design professional, right? That if an architect states that even in narrative form saying, you know, I mean, I'm talking in letter form, not full design and everything else because that is not what we've ever required of someone even on a higher standard of variance. So that's what I'm talking about. So not we would not put you all to that expense. That's not that we never require that from anyone for a variance. So if I hear you correctly, there is more work that the company needs to do and you will provide that information to the company of what they need to provide. And that information will go back to the floodplain administrator and the floodplain administrator will approve or deny and it will come to this body at as the January meeting just as it is today to confirm that but this body if I heard you correctly does not have the authority to approve or deny. Correct. It is up to the floodplain administrator to grant or deny the the the variance. In my opinion the commission can certainly ask questions and you don't just need to blindly confirm something that you don't have all the information on. And from talking to, again, two of the commissioners, it's my understanding that that additional information is what they're looking for. Right? And the floodplain administrator and talking to her, she said, yes, that's fine. I will certainly review that and if she has questions she would be in touch with you directly and that sort of thing if it somehow changed her opinion of What's going on here? Commissioner Grove I don't like lumping these together because one of them is included in the register, but I Think the other one is not. They are both on register. And on the registry, it says it's in 1920s house that was included on the registry. I got asked to come here the last minute, so I didn't get to see the paper work. Did you nominate it? Did you nominate it? and do the paperwork to get it on there? No, okay? No, Cutler handled all that and he's out of town The concern that what was what was put on the registry has since been removed and the building was built in its spot so Okay, I think this is if I understand it correctly, it is two buildings that have maybe at some point been attached. I could be completely wrong about it. You've got the building that just had a fire recently, then you've got the boss oyster, then you have care lines. So those are the two, the building that was on fire or caught on fire, and then the boss oyster I think might be the same property and then Caroline's is certainly which I think was two separate properties but I think what was maybe I'd like to see what was nominated and and when all that was done I'd like to pull the nomination and send it to us and that paperwork and that to us. So we know we're dealing with oranges here, oranges and oranges. So guess I don't wanna have a variance approved for a building that's not there anymore. So somewhere along the line, it came up that it was a 1920s house that that's what had been on the register. So. Okay. Thanks. the next . I'm going to talk about the 20th house. That's what had been on the register. Thanks. Are there any other questions for Samantha? At this point, we have been advised to table these two the next subject to additional information that will be provided to the floodplain administrator. What's that you make? I'll make a motion that we table the request for floodplain variance for one 19 and 125 water street for the December meeting so that the floodplain administrator can gather and I've water street for the December meeting so that the floodplain administrator can gather and review the pertinent documents to assure compliance with our land development code. Second. Have a motion by commission or George, a second by commission or grow to table new business items 2 and 3. Second with brief discussion. I will have a motion and a second discussion. Commissioner Elliott. I would like to ask you to ask the question. I would like to ask the question to ask the question. I would like to ask the question. I would like to ask the question. I would like to ask the question. I would like to ask the question. I would like to ask the question. I would like to ask the question. I would like to ask the question. I would like to ask the question. I would like to have the city planner involved in the review, similar in the way that the city planner helps PNZ, so to speak, in understanding the cohesion with code and so on and so forth. Because I just know from my own experience, I cannot read the code and interpret it as well as any other building professional can. So I think that would be useful to have before the spotty makes a decision and has a appropriate time to review with our planner. Thank you, Commissioner Elliott. We have a motion by Commissioner George and a second by Commissioner Grove to table new business number two item two and three. Have a comment from commissioner Elliott to have flood plan on the planner to join in the conversation. I don't think that needs to be a part of the motion, but we have a motion and a second. What say you? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carried to table items number two and three. Next on the agenda is new business number four. Bre? Mr Robinson, I'm sorry. Rick and Wood. This was a move for storm or a pipe relining at several locations. We got three beds or three growth room, 10 lowest bed, it was Jason wire construction, total project cost was at $26,230. the . We have a recommendation to award red and red and red and red and red and red and red and red and red and red and red and red and red and red and red and red and red have a recommendation to award red myer street repair and avenue being exploratory excavation to Jason White. What say you make a motion we approve have a motion by commission to grow. May I have a second? I have a second by commission to George discussion. Here and none all in favor. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carried. Unfinished business. FWC, no wake ordinance, first reading. And if I could make one comment on this, it's a clerical error that was noted at the last meeting I did not add the language and commissioner George was kind enough to remind me is from a clerical perspective we will add a section five that will just be the repealer language just the standard all ordinances or parts thereof in conflict here with are hereby repealed so that will be just the boilerplate language added and the city of Apatricola. I know that the city of Apatricola is a part of the city of Apatricola. So that will be the boilerplate language added. Other than that, I can read it by title. Travis, I know, worked on it with FWC. I know their legal counsel reviewed it. So, ordinance 2024-05 is an ordinance relating to the city of Apatricola. I'm ending voting restrictions and regulations for thecipio Creek area providing for penalties providing for codification providing for severability providing for repeal and providing for an effective date. You've heard the reading of the heading of ordinance 2024-05 which is the FWC no wait ordinance. What say you may have a motion to approve and advertise for second reading? Motion, we approve the first reading of ordinance 2024-05 with the addition of the repealer language and to advertise the ordinance for second reading. the second. The motion of the repeal language and to advertise the ordinance for second reading. Motion by commission George may have a second. Second by commission early at discussion. Hearing none all in favor. Any opposed. Motion carried. I hope everyone had a wonderful holiday Thanksgiving. A couple of questions or comments. We and the commission will be having a retreat schedule for January 4th. At beginning at 10 a.m. location will be sent out shortly. If you have any comments, material that you want to include or be discussed at the retreat. Please submit that information to Ms. Cummins by Friday the 13th so that we can work on getting that presentation prepared and out before the opportunity. So please be mindful of that. Also Commissioner Duncan you met with the business owners on Leslie Street. I know manager Wade sent out a summary. Did you want to add anything to that? Thank you. Just simply that we did meet, I think that it was very productive. We spent quite a bit of time there discussing it. I think that we're moving forward in a positive way. We reached some agreements about watching some things more closely address some of their concerns. When I was walking the other day, I picked up one of the the caution. What are those called? Safety signs. Safety signs. Thank you. They pop over. I was going by the other day and I picked one up and I was like, well, you know, and that's basically what they asked. It's just be more aware and send the city. I thought it was a good positive meeting. Thank you. Commissioner George, you wanted to be a part of that conversation. I think that's what they asked is just be more aware and send the city. I thought it was a good positive meeting. Thank you. Commissioner George, you wanted to be a part of that conversation. Did you have an opportunity to meet with the owners on the street as well on Lizlis Street? Yeah. I'm sorry. Could you give us your take on that conversation? Leslie is fine with what has transpired since the meeting and she just wants to make sure that that street is not forgotten and that the repairs be completed as quickly as possible. Thank you. Did anybody, any other commission, want to or had a conversation with the owners on the thank you. Did anybody any other commission want to or had a conversation with the owners on the street on the street. I just wanted to ask if we have a a t a on the pipes in the manhole. Just Jason giving us updates on a regular basis so the community. We have a lot of things to do with the community. We have a lot of things to do with the community. We have a lot of things to do with the community. We have a lot of things to do with the community. We have a lot of things to do with the community. street looking and coming up with resolutions as well. So I want to commend them for taking the initiative and getting out there. I did meet with them on the street and come up and we walked through it and they took care of some of the issues. So thank you, Chief, for taking the initiative and getting things moving on that as well. The only other thing I have is that Mary Christmas holidays are upon us and we are right here at 2025 and 2025 is gonna be a promising year. We will have a vision on where we're going and 2025 is going to be a promising year. We will have a vision on where we're going as a city and we will begin to implement the vision, put some plans in place so that we can move forward that we are being proactive instead of reactive. So looking forward to the retreat and having a wonderful discussion. Yeah. Growth. Yes. That's. I'm so thankful that we're moving forward on that. Thank you for your leadership on that. Um, just a couple of quick things. I did do a report on the latest partnership meaning but I left it behind today when I left work so I will email that to you and just highlights this is the Bay Restoration. 770 acres has been put out there of the Kentucky blue limestone rock and so that pilot mandatory pilot project has been finished. That was hopefully we'll see some growth there. We're seeing positive signs of recovery but there's still a long way to go because the reefs are no longer there. Thank you Travis for getting code enforcement to do a report for our packet. I really appreciate that. I'm glad you got that done. You're going to update us on the water plant repairs. Okay, can you add that to your list? And also the status of the fire hydrants I know the . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I had a couple of residents meant to me recently about having water leaks at their house and not knowing for a long time and creating a huge bill. I know the city as I had one of those leaks and didn't realize it under my house, and I can relate to it. And the city did make a, this is years ago, they took off the garbage bill and all of that, but it is still a heavy hit when you're not expecting it. So apparently, wet nose of some app that we can get, is there some way we can have on the meter system? Some way we would know if somebody has a really luminous leak or is that a pipe dream? The app is a request for new meters and that's something that, you know, when, if, I might say if, I'm gonna say when we get our five million, that might be something the commission decides to look at. The meters that he's talking about would have antennas so that would transmit the data to city hall. We wouldn't have to go out and read meters. People could have an app they could they could see their water usage that could be notified if it goes over a certain point There's a whole lot of is a really cool Program and they could pay their water bill online We're working on getting that done ready to through another source But this would allow a whole bunch of cool stuff to happen if we could get those. But that's replacing every meter. Yeah, well, we just did that about eight years ago. We replaced every meter. So, and that was 35,000. So I know it's had to have gone way up since then. So, all right. Thank you for that information. That's all I had. Commissioner Grove, before you relinquish the mic. Can you talk a little bit about the Worcester Harvesting and you know what is your professional feel as far as where the Harvesting stand right now? There's a lot of... There's a lot to it. As I mentioned, we had a recent report from some of the scientists who have been working on monitoring the Bay. They have, I don't have the number in front of me, but they have hundreds of sites throughout the bay that they monitor, I believe it's four times, well at least once a year, but they actually bring up and tongs and they have been monitoring it and carefully measuring it. There are some positive signs of recovery. However, because we can't see through the water, we don't see what's not there. And essentially what happened over that drought period. And you know, over that 10 years from say 2011, 10 or 11 up until 2013, there was a lot of degradation of the oyster reefs that were down there, so much of it's gone. So that has to be put back in. And some of the bars that are there and the western part of the bay aren't recovering as well as the eastern part of the bay. We are seeing some marketable-sized oysters in the eastern part of the bay. That's why FWC chose to do their pilot study in the eastern part of the bay on Cat Point. And so they've put down a lot of material. There's about 2,000 acres that could be resheld, but we are cultured, really, because there's no shell available. But it's not an easy answer. And we're not in control, of course, Florida Fish and Wildlife, FWC, is in control of the state's resources, which oysters are. And so there's a positive feeling that there may be some opening, but how much is that going to be? And the partnership committee, which is a combination of myself for the city, auto-samison for the county, some seafood dealers, seafood oyster harvesters, oyster dealers, lots of folks throughout the county are involved in it and trying to make decisions and working hand in hand with FWC to change laws because we're not going to be able to go out there and harvest what we did harvest, which was maybe three or four hundred bags per acre is not there. So those laws have to be, you know, changed. And so the amount of harvesting or the number thresholds have to be reestablished and then the licensing procedure has to be reestablished. So there's a lot in play there that this committee is working its way through. So I don't wanna answer anything incorrectly, but you're welcome to come to the meetings. All the meetings are reported on the partnership website, which I included on that one page I had for you, but I don't have it right now. But it is. If you just Google Appalachicola partnership, it will come up and tell you who is on the committee. It will tell you the latest presentations and a lot of that we post the presentations online. We actually had a three people come from the US Army Corps of Engineers and talked to us about the operation, the dam, how we need to work with them. So that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's be interested in doing that too and looking at that. So, be happy to. If there are no objections from the commissioners, do you mind if Commissioner Grove take the lead on a recommendation? Thank you, Commissioner Grove. Commissioner George, do you have any comment? I have one coming from the Parks and Recreation Committee about water at Riverfront Park. We discussed this a couple of times. Torbin Madsen, who's on the committee, ran into Red Butler downtown outside of his office and red showed him a round down there and basically said that it's not a hard fix. It's just there's a section of the sidewalk that needs to be torn up to get to a bell that's broken to restore water in the park. Seems like that would be a routine public works project. Is that something that can just be scheduled? The reason it sort of has some urgency is because we have the upcoming dog festival. That's going to be a two-year, two-day event this year, and they really are going to need water for the event. I talked to Red, because I got a, I talked to Red about it before, and he, they told me it was a big ordeal to be able to get out there because there were going to have to dig very deep and there was a, then some sidewalk issues. But the sidewalk, I mean, we can tear a section of sidewalk up and pour it back. That's not a big deal. So I'll talk to him about it again and since we can get it done I just I was under the impression after my last few discussions with with them that it was It was a big ordeal But I'll talk to him tomorrow. Okay, the story seems to have very but I mean, I'm just wondering if there's somehow we can try to get that resolved I think that's I Mean if it's something that's just gonna be a public works project that seems like we should. That'll be it'll be the one that's who are feel crew and public works and tend to do it uh, so that's been a couple of other ones like that that ended up once they got into it. It wasn't as big a project as they thought it would be. I'll have a look at it and try to get it done. Oh, I have a commission Elliot. I do not have anything at this time. Thank you. Commissioner Duncan. Thank you. Um. Any commissioner grove brought up the water bills. Today as I got my first water bill for 109 MLK and I think it says I consume 6,000 gallons. Like it's vacant so I'll be checking into that. So, I'll be checking into that. Okay. Okay, so I can get information from you. Thank you. Okay, so I can get information from you. Thank you. Okay, thank you. I'll figure it out. Because I mean the pipe seems not out of that. And the pipes are snatched out. So where the water's going, I have no idea. Because anyway, thank you. I'll get with you on that. Other, that was the other point. But I'm going to be meeting Monday, week with the new Director of the Garden, the community garden. They reached out to me, so I'm going to go at 10 o'clock that morning, the night that's what I'm going to meet with her, and I'm excited to learn more about that program and what it all involves. For the brief time that I lived on 8th Street, I often thought about getting a plot there. It's a nice community garden. So I will be reporting back about that meeting when we... And the only other question I had is I received, when we received emails, I received an email from a concerned citizen about Palmer Point. And I think everybody else received a copy of it, I'll say, which we don't respond because of the rules but how is something like this handled Mr. Wade I mean or did I'm not sure what you're I get so many emails I have to say in general when people can answer that okay I actually went and met with I thought he included that on his report. Maybe he didn't say he didn't specify, but he's on it and it's been if you call Scott Boyd at the code enforcement, he can and the enforcement action that he's taken. Okay, so this was more of a, because it reads, I hope you keep a close eye on. So I was just thinking, okay, so it doesn't really ask for a specific thing, but we don't want to ignore them. So I'm glad to know that there was another process in place. Okay, thank you. And I believe they filed a formal complaint also with another neighbor. So, okay. All right, thank you very much. That's all I have. Thank you. You manage your way. A couple things. One is the fountain at Riverfront Park. I call it Tallahassee. I call Port Saint Joe. I call it Panama City. I call it a-all these people to see, you know, nothing you can use for your fountains. And everybody seems to have somebody own staff that knows fountains. So, I tell Hassee, they did, Paramount City never got back with any poor St. Joe, that they all had somebody doing it. So, I was in the storage room looking for some financial documents the other day in some of the boxes and ran across two invoices for people that we paid to do work on the fountain in 2019 and 2018. So I pulled those out, I would say run back to my office, but I hopped back to my office so happy I gave them to Robert. And I asked Robert to check on one of them and I think Angela looked at one of them. Anyway, one of them is out of business and the other one, Robert contacted them and he's been out for two weeks. He'll be back Monday and I'm waiting, hoping that he got some good news from them. So to get a quote for repairing that fountain, to see what it's going to cost. But so we are still looking at the fountain. So I'm trying to get a quote. Hopefully that company's still in business. If they're not in business, I'm not sure where we get a quote from to do that because uh... Okay. Sure. Oh. It goes back and forth. We want the fountain. We don't want the fountain. I have one in terms that can fix the fountain for nothing. But they didn't want to fix the fountain any water, or anybody to maintain the phone. So we killed it. I think you actually bought some of the tiles. It was ready to repair it, but he wasn't going any further if we weren't going to maintain the phone. So they were willing to get rid of the phone. And they were here private citizens coming, saying, but we left the phone and were like, OK, me what? The commission directed me at the that came from the private citizens to get a quote on repairing it so we know what the price is and that's not the not the structural part of the phone. This is really the I mean the tile in the film. I can find 40 people to do that. It's going to be the plumbing and because all that if you look over, if you look at the film look over the left there's a box. You pick that box up, it got submerged during a hurricane. It's gonna get submerged in the middle of the floor. It's gonna be a Michael even but at least since Michael it's been in this full of water and there's still all that electrical stuff's underwater. It's just shot. But thinking of the parks coming in is we want to come, we want to have kind of a workshop in invite people to give us ideas what they, instead of just telling us what you don't want us to do, give us ideas of what you do want us to do and then we would come to the commission with some of those options of what to do with the fountain. Because every time we get closer to a competition or something, you know, we're back. And that's kind of where the point is that. And if I didn't, you know, does that the feeling we get does, but okay. All right, well, that's my update with that. But the next was Leslie Street. So Leslie Street, as you know, during the demo, they discovered the pipe. The storm drain pipe is a terracotta pipe. We have damage to one of the manholes. When we look at the manholes, it's a brick manhole from the 1800s probably. So we asked DOT, can we use some of the leftover money, $60,000 or $1,000,000, I think, to replace those two manholes and that pipe with a concrete pipe. So when we're done with this, we never have to dig that up again, please. And they said yes. So I called a nophoric construction this morning and talked to them. I said, give me the update. Tell me, give me some good news. And they said we are in the process with the manufacturer of the manholes that because the one of the manholes, the reason this all happened was one of the manholes, the reason this all happened was one of the manholes was low, they paved over the top of it. So when they were grinding up that asphalt for milling their machine, hit the top of the manhole, tore up their machine, tore up the manhole. So we need the manholes to be level with the road, so they have to be specifically designed and built for that road. So they're out getting the dimensions and the size and everything and going back and forth with the manufacturer to have those built. As soon as they get all that down, they can go ahead and order them, have them built. The concrete pipe, I think, is already in the process of being ordered. But that's where they are with it. They're just taking a little while to get all that specifics in the dimensions, correct. So it is a work in progress and it is nobody's sitting on this. It's being pushed along. After our meeting with Ms. Koon, one of the issues was that some of that plastic fencing was laying down on the ground. I had public works go back and put it up. It was not down again. I got them to go back and put it back up again. So, and I told them to keep an eye on it. If it goes back down, I ride back every morning. I put ours on it every morning. If I see it laying down, I might have somebody get back and pick it up. So we are working on that. I think we got all of our issues resolved with that, I think. The retreat is going to be at the armory. I don't know if that was said. I can't remember, but I talked with the county, and I've got it reserved for the fourth at the armory. Water plant repairs. We got some coat zone removing the damaged part of the air scrubber that's on the top. It was a lot of money to remove that because they have to rent a crane and everything. So I got them to reach out to a few more companies and I think we got another quote that's more reasonable. I'm not sure what the quote was on that, but we are, I think he might be waiting on one more quote to come back, but we're working on that as well. As soon as we get the quotes down to where we have a reasonable one, we're gonna go ahead and move on that because we need to get it off the top of there anyway. But then the engineering or engineering companies that's own our continuing services has been looking to get quotes from different companies because you gotta get them from different companies because you got to get them from South Florida somewhere for the company that builds the replacement for that equipment. Nobody up here that we could find does that. So they're getting quotes on that as well. The hydrants, the hydrants, the company that came in and did the hydrants, they went out to do another project which they picked up other stuff and went a pretty good ways off and they keep getting change orders. I got a call. I think it was last week from the lady that owns a company and she said, really, really sorry. We thought we were done. We got a change order. We're stuck here until we get it done. But as soon as we're done, we're coming right back back to that pletch of coal up because we have, I think, 10 more in that first run of hydrants left to do. And we have a legislative appropriations award to do, I think it's 50 more. So we're going to try to do all that. We've got to do an RFP on that as well and get that out there. But we do have silent quotes for that since we have a project already going. Yes, yeah, we're working on that. We and I talked with them. The funding agency, I think, was DP. I talked with them the the funding agency I think was DEP we talked with them about that recently The other thing is the yard Meaders it's my understanding from what I was told that at some point DEP told the city you can no longer issue water only meters That was what I was told when I first started and I can't remember who told me that if it was... Yeah, I think that's... I'm going to be doing. If you just purchase the house. It's And the other last thing I have is we did the lead service line inventory study for DEP. We got the funding for that. The lead service line study turned out that we have no lead service lines in service in the city. And luckily that meet a replacement project they did several years, so many years ago, they had to document what they were connecting to. So they already had a lot of the data there that we weren't connected to any led service lines and then ones that we didn't, they had to go put eyes on it and they determined that there were there are no led service lines. So we're in good shape with that. And that's all the that's all the information I have. Questions for manager Wade? the . Any Hartman? Yes. So really just two items. One. I know it was late. I promised it for the meeting in the package. But the cemetery ordinance, if anybody would get me any final comments on that and we can have it available for first reading or be voted to send it to first reading at the next meeting. It's in 90% final format. Before you move on, did you speak with Ms. Buchanan on that? No. Did you forward it to the draft to her? I had the last meeting. I'm not sure if you can see the address. Did you forward to the draft to her? The last meeting. Her comment was and I can forward that email to you. I see her every day. I mentioned to her that you would come up with a draft and I forwarded to her. She said. Something like for simplicity sake, could we just say no commercial activity in the cemeteries? That was her input. And that's up to you all. And I know Commissioner Elliott has been in touch with Josh. We're kind of both working on it. And she had some good suggestions. Also, you'll see, see, basically options. So we can add that as an option. And maybe that's what we do with the next meeting. the last item is the mayor touch on what I have on my list as far as the retreat would be charter amendments relocation of city hall treatment of city property and obviously I'll be there I can just advise simply on the process for charter amendments that's the thing but I'll leave it to you all to come up with the nature of any charter amendments. But if you all do come up with ideas as the mayor said for additional topics and if they involve anything legal I'll make sure I'm prepared to advise on it at the retreat so let me know what those are. I have one more for you since you brought that. I mean at CRA versus tax for the business district I think at one point there was a conversation about having business district. And I can't think of the terminology commissioner Elliott. What was it? I believe that we were, it was when we were discussing talking about downtown and trying to separate it from like residential or historical, just calling it, I can't remember. But if you can look at that, Dan, you and I talked about that briefly. About the attack. Having a tax versus a CRA. The thought is what can the city do to provide improvement to the business district, to the downtown commercial, or to the business district, to the downtown commercial, or to a business district won't just say downtown. What is it as far as funding opportunities? And I will look at that and I've seen the variety, I mean, again, I have a lot of experiences with CRAs. I'm trying to think of something with like a sub district within the city that would be like one of those like what they call MSPU or some special district tax. But see, the taxing is always... It's not a good word. It's not a nice word. But obviously, let me see what's available. And I'll list those on. I just add that to your list. The CRA, we've had a run up in values. And because we don't have a CRA, any new CRA would set a base year in what we have. And we can talk about this at the retreat. So, we'll be able to do it tonight. However, we do have a number of projects, prospective projects that would come out of the ground two years from now, say, as far as resulting in a re-evaluation of taxes, right, significantly higher potentially. So, that would be a reason to take a look at the CR. Basically the pros and cons. And let me throw one other thing. If you want me to be ready to talk on it. I've worked on this for some other folks. Other cities is storm water utilities. I never really thought of this is I know I've thought of it. But there's actually an ordinance process where you set up a stormwater utility. We have a stormwater fee. What new projects? This one is, I don't think I don't see any. Well, okay, if we already have it, we have it. But it's actually a, it's based on, it's similar to a water sewer utility. I mean, it's based on density and use and all this stuff. And there's calculations based on impervious service and everything else, and you pay a fee based on that. It's not an impact fee, it's a monthly fee. You pay for, and that shows up on our So if it's a series if it's already established that that's see that I don't know Talk about that. Let me put a curve ball at you on that same vein, right? Because with the CRA, your main necessity of finding is blight, right? So the downtown area is in blight very much anymore. No, I'm in blight. Yes, yes. So theoretically speaking, it would be really hard. You would have to really try to try really hard to make a contiguous map that would include actual blighted residential areas of town with the downtown. I don't know you're going to be the one that tells us how we're able to levy new taxes and such like that. Something that popped into mind thinking about this. So we have putting in special districts, driving special taxes. We have an inner county local agreement with our hospital and our hospital system. There's a limit, we can only have like one interlocal agreement, can't we? Yeah, let me, that sort of included in what I think, oh, let me find out. The thing is, I know it is, they don't like it when I say they, the state, the part of the revenue, it's like coming up with our own special taxes. Is it a problem? Yeah, they've been through this several times. The idea would be perhaps using it as an economic development incentive because you have no downtown in East Point. You have a budding downtown in Caribell, and you do not have really a downtown stripper on St. George Island. So it was just thinking it would be a way to maybe create a special district that defined an area of commerce that could, in a sense, try to pass down an extra sales tax in those districts so to speak. Again taxes aren't popular but if we can get a buck off a tourist instead of a local to help locals it seems like a better idea for the taxpayer. This comes up every once in a while. Fair hope has it. But Fair hope put it in place in like 1890 and Fairhope's in Alabama, Florida does not like city governments coming up with their own taxes The state comes up with taxes and a number of it's been tried a number of times Seaside did it and they actually charged merchants and people and it was illegal and then turned the Attorney General ruled that it was yeah. So we've kind of been there running the chamber for 20 years. We've kind of been looking at those. The CRA is our best vehicle or either create like a downtown authority and see how you could do that. But I know many of the downtown authorities are funded through a CRA. Yes, the funding is the hard part. And they don't like CRAs. And we lost it. So a lot of pushback on CRAs, but they're entrenched. Right. And we lost it. So that's the hard part is making that up again. Hey, just a reminder that 1213 please provide your input information for the retreat. Attorney Hartman, do you have anything else? Do you have anything else? I have nothing else. Thank you very much. Anyone have any questions for Attorney Hartman? May I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? I have a motion by Commissioner Elliott. May I have a second? Second. Second by Commissioner Grove. Discussion? Here are none. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion carried. motion to approve discussion. Here in none, all in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion carried. Department reports are included. Are there any other, is there any other business before this body? Here in none. May I have a motion to adjourn? I assume. Have a motion by Commissioner Elliott. May I have a second? Second. Second by Commissioner Groveve all in favor. Hi Motion to adjourn has been approved meeting adjourn Merry Christmas