Hello, how good morning and welcome to the fifth session of the Committee on Legislative Approvals and Acquisitions. We are located today in the Heelow Chambers and connected by video conference to the Kona Chambers. Here we have Council Member Kagiwada, Council Member Hustis, Council Member Kirkwitz, Council Member Inava, Council Member Glimba, and I don't see Council Member Vegas yet in Kona. I'm going to be in the next meeting. I'm going to be in the next meeting. I'm going to be in the next meeting. I'm going to be in the next meeting. I'm going to be in the next meeting. I'm going to be in the next meeting. I'm going to be in the next meeting. I'm going to be in the next meeting. I'm going to be in the next meeting. I'm going to be in the next meeting. Just noting that we do not have any testifiers at our remote sites. We do have testifiers here in the Heelow Chamber and some Vio Zoom. So what we'll do is we'll take our first two testifiers, Vio Zoom, come to two testifiers in Heelow and then rotate, continue on with that rotation until we complete our testifiers. So, Madam Chair, your first testifier, Vio Zoom, is Joni Mezzler to be followed by Benji Garfinkle, both testifying on Bill's 198 and 199. Joni, when you begin, you'll have three minutes per agenda item. Please let us know when you transition so we can reset that time for you. And if you could just reintroduce yourself when you begin please. Hi, Joni Mezzler. I just sent you a request to unmute. If you could, this is your chance to provide testimony. Can you hear me now? Yes, we can. OK, very good. Good morning to you all. I'm Joni Mezzler, the applicant. And I would like to test by and support of bills 198 and 199. As you all know, John and I have owned this property for a little over 23 years having purchased it in May of 2002. After we purchased the property, my husband spent many years of hard work to clear out over 600 tons of construction debris, restore the existing farm homes, install all utilities underground, fence the property, create and build Eishi-Hara Farm Road. We have taken these steps to manage our property in a respectful and beneficial manner. Since purchasing the property, we have not only restored the property to its original beauty, but by improving our land, we have enhanced the surrounding area. A little over five years ago, we began planning efforts that we hope will further improve our property in a manner envisioned by our community leaders decades ago. We have followed the guidelines of the Waimea design plan, a plan that in 1986, the County Council voted unanimously to approve. This plan was crafted by a committee established by the Executive Board of the Waimea Community Association. This plan states Waimea has three distinct commercial areas. Our property falls within the East Side commercial area from Kamamalu Road near the police station to the new Fukushima store where the fish in the hog is now located. Our property, Fronting Mamala, Hoha Highway, is surrounded by commercial properties. The front portion of the property was previously zoned commercial 7500 square feet until this zoning was repealed in 2002 as development by the previous landowner never occurred. We wish to restore the neighborhood commercial zoning to in the front of the property, butting the Montelo Highway. Excuse me. That is currently within the state land use urban district and to seek a state land use boundary amendment and rezone the back portion of the property to rule half-acre designation. The requested boundary amendment and the change of zoning is in compliance with the state land use district map the county of Hawaii general plan, Lou Pagmap and the South Caholic Community Development Plan conceptual plan for why may I town. Thirty seconds to transition. Okay. the federal plan, Lou Pagma and the South Koala Community Development Plan, conceptual plan for Ymaa Town. 30 seconds to transition. Okay, I'm going to build 199. With the adoption of the Ymaa Design Plan in 1986 and the general plan and South Koala Community Development Plan that continues to embrace the Ymaa Design Plan over 38 years later, we firmly believe that our request to provide a small commercial area to serve the growing needs of the Waimea community and a few rural home sites are consistent with these plans that have been crafted by the members of our community. The proposed architecture for the commercial buildings is meant to complement historic buildings in Waimea, such as the Spencer House and the Lindsay House. All utilities will be installed underground. We envision the buildings will look and feel like old Hawaii. The types of businesses that we hope to see will be professional providers such as doctors, dentists, medical clinics, accountants, and perhaps limited retail to support the community of Waimea. The five half acre agricultural lots are to be developed in a way that is consistent with rural Ranch House theme of Waimea and provide the opportunity for local families to build a home and then also enjoy agricultural activities on their properties. Both the commercial lots and the agricultural home sites will have architectural design guidelines to address architectural style, building setbacks, landscaping requirements, and height limitations to preserve views towards Monacaia. With the expertise of our architects, engineers, and consultants, we will comply with all requirements needed to obtain building permits, particularly in reference to Hawaii County Code chapter 27 standards for construction and we will comply with all requirements to address construction in the AEA EO and AEF flood zones and will follow the guidelines of the Department of Transportation and the South Kohalo Traffic Safety Committee. Why may it is in need of small agricultural lots for residents to purchase and build their family homes? Also as Gregory Ogan from SVN Commercial confirmed in his testimony and letter to you on February 4th, there is little to no opportunity for a doctor, a CBA, or a business to purchase land and put up a building to suit their needs. Our project has obtained and made deposits to the Department of Water Supply for 20 water commitments. We will install the utilities underground to both the commercial and the half-acre lots and the improvements will include paved roadway and landscaping. We have agreed with all of the planning directors recommendations of a group of people. 30 seconds. OK, we have agreed with all of the planning directors recommendations of approval and conditions. And we agree to all the conditions attached to bills 198 and 199. We have contacted over 100 YMAA residents and gotten over 50 letters of support and people call us and come up to us in the community in support of our project. Approval by you, the County Council, will be an important addition to the community's effort to keep the quiet and quiet. Thank you so much for your testimony, your time is up, so we'll have to transition. Thank you. Chair, your next testifier via zoom is Benji Garfinkle and then we will transition to our testifier here in the Hilo Chamber Kalani Susa. Benji, when you begin, you'll have three minutes per agenda item. If you clearly transition, we can reset your time. If not, it'll be three minutes flat. Benji, at this time, if you could unmute your... oh, it seems like... color my chair it seems like we must have lost Benji in the transition there so at this time, we will move on to Colani Susa, here in the Hilo Chamber, to be followed by Momi Natin. Colani is testifying on Bills 198 and 199. Again, you'll have three minutes per agenda item if you clearly transition, if not, it's three minutes total. And if you could just reintroduce yourself when you begin, please. Thank you. And I want to take this opportunity to thank you all for the work you do. It's not easy. I'm aware of that. So, Cloney, Susan, I'm with FEMA, the National Disaster Preparedness Training Center, part of DERP, Department of Urban Regional Planning. Also, with Primo, the Pacific Risk Management, OHANA, Federal and County State agencies working together throughout the Pacific. Also with RBCC and the National Science Foundation on Coastal Community capacity building, and also with the Olohana Foundation. We've been doing community building work here on the Big Island for about 16 years now, 501C3. So I don't want to waste a lot of people's time. I'm just going to dive into it. I'm opposed to build 1998-1999 with amendments, the co-bullet and development application. And following reasons, I'll try to be as brief as I can be. One, it's over development for the wrong reasons. There's no direct benefit to the existing community. I noticed that she pointed out 50%. It's not mystery to us that YMIA is bifurcated by economy. Thanks for that update. Two, increased traffic and transitioning on ships for those traveling through YMIA, particularly the labor force at South Guahalab for the hotels and the shops. Three, existing empty commercial spaces that are not being utilized, we're going to build more, we're going to build residents, residential units that people can not afford. And that's item four, increase unaffordability. Number five, illegal land titling. Number six, the illegalation by the United States. And it's soon to be addressed by the UN. And if you've been watching politics lately, and we're a definitely blue zone, right? The United States is losing international support. And that's going to change things that have been in limbo for quite some time. So the last thing is the response by this governance body. You were the legal entities in 1893. You are a legal government of these particular assets. So I implore you to do the right thing by the community and the people, one last formality, in memory of Uncle Hank. There is no treaty. All the land acquisitions are legal. And that day is coming soon. Thank you for your time and your attention to this. Thank you so much for your testimony. Chair, your next testifier here in Hilo is Momi Natin testifying on bills 198 and 199. And then I was informed that we have testifiers in our Y-Mia site, so we'll transition to the next two there. But Momi, when you begin, you'll have three minutes per agenda item if you clearly transition. If not, that's three minutes total. If you could just please reintroduce yourself when you begin. Aloha, I'm Dr. Momi Noughton, and I'm retired from UH. Last time I was in front of this body, I was receiving an award, the certificate of recognition for my historic preservation for starting the Heritage Center at Enherk, now the Co-Education Center, and then we moved it down into town. Heather, you and I met before when Val brought you by. And since my retirement, for one thing, I was away from Waimef for about 30 years. I was on the Community Advisory Board in the 70s. Under first Ken Melrose and then Hisa Kimura. And at that time we had started that Waimea Urban Design Plan and we had designated the commercial areas. The end to go no further than I, I owed a store which which was right next to the, it's torn down now, right next to the liquor store on the Honaka side, and then about where Maryman's is now on the other side of town. One of the things that we were concerned about at that time and that we kept talking about and I'm going to quote from the quote from Melrose himself, why may I wishes to maintain its agricultural base and control its growth so that the peace and quiet and open space of our rural, paniolo atmosphere is maintained. The one thing, if you folks aren't aware that there's an interactive map that you can get online, if you just Google important Ag Lands of Hawaii, and you'll see that there, I know you can't see this here, but you'll be able to see it if you pull it up. You can pull up every island, and if you pull up the big island, the big island there's only one place and that one place is exactly where this development's going. It's that whole strip kind of a cross from the liquor store all of that strip going all the way down toward Lakeland. That is the most fertile land on this whole island. We were the bread basket and it is extremely important to keep this land. In fact, in 1961, the Monique Assoil Conservation Report said, and I quote, a truck cropland is at a premium in all of Hawaii. 30 seconds to transition. Thank you. It is not anticipated that Poo Kappoo track Cropland will be utilized for urban development as, and I emphasize there is no replacement available. This is, once this land is gone, power for the whole island. Okay. So I wanted to bring that up, and I do have a testimony that I also got in front of you up sent in yesterday or day before. But, it's interesting. Transitioning. Thank you so much for allowing me to speak and I hope you vote with your now. Thank you so much for your testimony. Chair, at this time we'll go out to our Weimea site with Kendra. Kendra, if you could give us our next two testifiers before we take our next Zoom testifiers, please. Hi, reaching out to our YMIA site again. Kendra, if you're ready with your two testifiers we could take them now if not we can continue on Thank you We have two testifiers today First we have Cindy Evans testifying on bill 198 and 199 Followed by Sharon Patroski who will be testifying on bill 198 and and 199. Cindy, you have three minutes per agenda item. Please let me know when you transition so that we can reset your time. If you do not clearly transition, then you will have three minutes total. And please reintroduce yourself as you begin. Thank you very much. Started? Okay, Aloha. You can see me? Hi, good morning, Council. Um, and Chair Kimball and the Council members, it's a Pleasure to be today and see you all on screen. And I want to thank the community too for being present in the audience as well as maybe watching on Zoom. I am commenting on Bill 198 and 199. I'm in opposition to both bills as currently written. I have several points I wish to bring to your attention. One is I think that the community has been extremely engaged and has been very vocal about opposing this. They showed up at the planning commission. They submitted so much testimony and of course, I process has a way of going on and on and on. And sometimes it's very hard to keep the community engaged at every single step of the process. But I really believe and hope that the planning director really points out what happened at the planning commission and the type of opposition and the concerns that were raised at that level. I think those concerns are consistent. They've stayed the same throughout and I believe the concerns, the primary concerns are keeping the rural nature of that part of Wyoming and rural. As a matter of fact, I want to point out it is currently a zone DAG. And it's been zone DAG for a long time. The person who commented earlier said that there was a vision decades ago for what commercial area might appear on that side of town. Well, I just want to say we're not talking about decades ago. We're talking about today now a vision of what this community is going to look at our decision today converting it. This is 198 converting from Ag to rural can significantly change it. And I want to point out that the general plan and the rural designation, there's some changes being proposed in rural and it could, who knows what it would look like if we allow it to go into the rural designation. My other concern is to be, to really be consistent. I wanted to comment on the YMAI Community Association, the Design Plan Review. They always look at the design to make sure it meets with the look of the community, the Paniolo look. So I was a little surprised in the previous testimony that they believe something that was done in 1986 that the YMAI Community Association can weigh in on this particular going from rural, from Ag to Rural. I'm not sure I agree with that. I'd love to have someone weigh in on that's true that they can even comment on it. I will move in transition to 199. This is to create the commercial zone and the housing zone. I know people want housing. I do believe that if this turns into half-acre lots, it will probably be above our median income for those who can afford it. It will be a minimum probably 110 to 140 percent of median income that could probably afford it. I've heard that the people that are proposing it have quoted, they think it'll probably come in around $300,000 a lot You put a house on it. They believe people can get in it between 700 800000 that is definitely way above I think what we call affordable or unaffordable So I just want to call it what it is. It's going to be for people above the median income we'll be able to buy it. The other thing is the commercial area. I just think that if you've ever been to Wyoming and if you've seen the Jacaranda Inn coming up from the harbor, that's like saying the Jacaranda Inn, that's Tarot Down, that's built a two-story commercial building, do retail offices, maybe restaurants. We don't know what the future is once we allow it to be commercial. It could convert to who knows another restaurant. It could be a lot of traffic. The reality is we don't want Jacarendin taken down and changed the ambiance of Y-Mia. No different than the other side of town. You know, people don't want this in that area. And I agree with them. I think that that we already have what we see as our commercial zone within Y-MAYA. I think it's very, very well established. People are very comfortable with it as is. I think expanding it further towards Honaka is not at this time and maybe not even ever in the future is it going to work. I am totally against that commercial expansion going out beyond, again, what Momi Lums, Boughton said, beyond the liquor store. I think that is definitely really changing the nature of YMAI. And if you listen to the community again over and over, I think the majority of people are not in favor of it. So thank you for the opportunity to testify. Thank you. Our next testifier is Sharon Petroski. Testifying on bills 1.98 and 1.99. Sharon, you will have three minutes per agenda item. Please let me know when you have transitions so that we can reset your time. And if you do not clearly transition, then you will have three minutes total. Please reintroduce yourself as you begin. You're good. Oh, absolutely. Hello, my name is Sharon Petroski. I'm a resident of Waimea and I'm also employed here in Waimea, right in town. So I'm here to oppose both bills, 198 and 199. And I really want to thank everybody who's speaking on this and has the facts and the figures and the history and is able to articulate exactly what is going on. And to back up their opposition, their view of opposing these bills. And I'm really here to speak from my heart. And I just want to say that I went to the meeting a couple nights ago here in Waimea. There were over 100 people, local people there who opposed both bills and with great passion. And so we need to acknowledge that there are most people, I haven't heard of anybody who really is in favor of this bill other than the people who are trying to build it and pass it. But I was inspired by the passion of the people, and I understand it, I've lived here for 17 years. I'm not local, but I've lived here for 17 years and I've been embraced by the Hawaiian people here and also embraced by the academic world. So I feel that we cannot ignore the passion of the people who really come from this land. We need to stop doing that. And we need to listen to the wisdom that lies beneath the passion, that drives the passion. So I just, I love somebody earlier just said, vote from your now. And I think we need to keep that in mind as we consider these things. I don't know if I said that I am opposing both bills. Thank you for your time. Thank you so much to our testifiers and why me at this time, Chair will transition to our Zoom testifiers. I believe our next testifier is Colony Flores and I believe Poor Case is supposed to be from the same Zoom link, but if not, oh, whoops. Colony Flores is our next testifier via Zoom testifying on bills 198 and 199. Colony, if you have three minutes per agenda item, if you clearly transition, if not, it'll be three minutes total. If could just reintroduce yourself as you begin please and really before I just want to clarify so and four cases the testifying in in heal and person I guess we assume so you can start your clock at this time. Thank you. All right, greetings to all and greetings to our county council members and also our district nine council member Mr. Houston as well. I also thank the audience and the applicant Mr. Mrs. Ann. Mr. our home is just a few blocks down from the proposed project and the reason and at the moment as the project as proposed was before you we were in opposition to this project, Bill's 198 and 199 and I'll take up 198 first and then jump into 199 when my time expires as such. But first of all, there's been overwhelming opposition to this project. Overwhelming. Even the Libra Planning Commission was overwhelmed with opposition to this project. I actually went through all the meetings and all the testimonies, all the packets that were put out to the Libra Planning Commission. And I went to the day we took days just to go through and download and start to try to print all those copies. There are nearly 900 letters of and submitters of testimony opposing this project, nearly 900. The Lear Planning Commission doesn't even get that amount in type of project. This project had nearly 900 pieces of testimony. My wife has a hard copy of most of them. In 2023, there were 776 testimonies opposing this project. In 2024, at the Planning Commission meetings. There are 108 and they've been downloaded there. There's significant reasons why this project has been a poll. And there's nothing to do with the character of Mr. Mester, the applicant, or anything. But there's nothing to do with this. It's nothing personal about him. It's the project itself. It's not conducive to the general plan and the coalesce self development plan in guidelines. It does the meatballs. And so first of all, it's a clear example when you talk about the change in the egg as such to rural. It's a clear example of spot zoning. BELL RINGS Look, if you look at the map here, 30 seconds to transit. But if we look at the rural designation, and everything around it is egg, egg five acres. But they want a special entitlement to spot zone this particular parcel here. It's spot zoning right around. But beyond that aspect as such, we come to agricultural aspects. This project is not compliant with the Hawaii County General Plan. We submitted testimony for the February meeting that you folks had and if you look at our testimony, we all like transitioning now. And there's a, so we're looking at why it's not compliant and so you can look at my testimony when it comes to agriculture why it's not compliant. So we jumped to bill 199. Once again, my name is Ikolani Flores from Kapa Waiimea speaking in opposition to both bills and 199, which I would speak on now. As such, besides overwhelming opposition to this project from community people, and when it went through those testimonies over 700 were from Waimea. Waimea residents, residents from Waikoloa in which also in District 9 and residents in Hona Ka. And elsewhere, because people who are passing through this corridor is gonna be impacted. And one of the impacts is what the proposed commercial part of it is going to increase the traffic congestion in Wyoming, which is already, it's unbearable. During mornings, people are going to school and to work and in PM and in the evenings, or if people are going home, and in the middle of the day, they're in lunchtime. If you're in HBM, for example, if you're from, for example, where HBM, and you try to take a left back into town, it takes you while, because you have to time the light down by EPs. The traffic corridor we're talking about is from the traffic like EPs, where the police station is going out, pass, fish in the hall, and pass where this project is. You try to take a left turn, at any time, many times out of the day, you can't even get out. Literally. So you have to take a right turn, find a place down, turn around, and you want to either gas station or so forth, or another subdivision, and come back right. That's how you can get in and out of these order parcels being proposed. It's only going to create further traffic congestion. That's one of the main things. When I went to the test models, people were upset about and concerned about. And if you ever took a look at their traffic study, which is a deficient traffic study, if you go to page 13 on the bottom of the page, it states, quote, the net PM peak hour trips generated by the proposed project are expected to exceed the trip generation threshold established by the Hawaii County cold concurrency requirements for the preparation of a traffic impact analysis report end of cold. report hidden in page bottom of page tree says this is only going to create further congestion which is one of the concerns that people have brought. Another part is that there'll be the commercialization. And I've listed all the reasons why when you go into my testimony, it'll light outlines all the why it does not meet the county code in a South Korea development plan. The South Korea development plan, unlike what was previously mentioned by the early testifier. It was to put all the intensive commercial properties in the retail price, in the course part of Weimea, which is where a rock parker ranch center is and Weimea center. And when you come in out from Weimea, where this project is, it's supposed to be low key and small scale type of commercial. This is not what it's supposed. It's a three story. I mean, three, three lots, three buildings, two, two stories. It's not in compliance with the South Korea Development Plan. Once again, I thank you for your folks your time. If you go into a testimony that was presented in February, it all went very well. Thank you so much for your testimony. And thank you so much. Chair, our next two testifiers are here in the Hilo Chamber, C.C. Davenport, to be followed by John Coano. C.C. is testifying. Actually, they're both testifying on bills, one, nine, eight, and one, nine, nine. C.C., when you begin, you'll have three minutes per agenda item if you clearly transition. If not, it's three minutes total. If you could just reintroduce yourself, please. Good morning. minutes per agenda item if you clearly transition if not it's three minutes total if you could just reintroduce yourself please. Good morning council members. I would have speak off topic for a little bit and if I could have your permission because as you know there was a town hall meeting hosted by James Hustis on March 4th two days ago. So if I could just brief you because you were very kind and gave us the courtesy to postpone the last meeting so that we could have this. So if I could take 90 seconds of Ladonna Shiveleys, time who she is a rent, you know, scheduled to testify if I could do that. I'm sorry, Arul Stone. I'll allow for that. You'll have to do your testimony within the three minutes per item. OK. OK. Terrific. So I want to bring you up to date on what happened Wednesday night at or the Tuesday night at this meeting. There was a lot of confusion about where the meeting was being held. First, it was at Tutu's house on the 3rd third and the fifth. Then it got moved over to the Weimea Community Center. One of the testifiers called James Houston's office and said, I can get the Hawaiian homes whole because we're anticipating a lot of people being there. I had also reached out and said that I had made tentative plans to reserve Mona Christian because again, that's where we had the last department of water meeting and there were 250 people that showed up. The response from James Hustis' office on Hawaiian Homes was that it was not ethnically neutral. Think about that. So is Tutu's house is that building diverse in ethnic in ethnic in ethnicity is the one that community is a center diverse in ethnicity. I'm not quite sure what that means. Also, there were about 150 people there at the meeting. 50 people were outside. They couldn't find parking. The venue was too small. The venue was out of control. It was... Johnny Metzler kept speaking out of turn, everybody got interrupted, it was just not a controlled environment. And it really was unfortunate because we had a really good turnout, there was no microphone provided, it was suggested, please bring a microphone. 30 seconds to transition, please. I'll transition. So normally I speak about the amount of commercial space available in Y-Mah. And I wanted to bunk Greg Ogins testimony saying there's very little, there's about a thousand square feet, that's just simply not true. I have a big map that everybody has seen, and there's over 30,000 square feet of available space in Y-Mah. So but I So what I started to think about is, first of all, I want to command the council members who see the value in opposing this that can see not only the immediate ramifications, but future. What will this do to that corridor? What will this do to the town of Weimia? So I commend you and I want you to keep in mind that when I read some of these things, I do. I appreciate I wholeheartedly, genuinely commend you for seeing outside the box and seeing into the future. So I ask myself, what resonates? What is resonating with the members of this council that are supporting these two bills? Is it landscapers, landscape architects, architects, the owner of HPM, building supply, caipono pools, engineers, people on his staff, his legal counsel, what resonates? But it's funny because when I go back and I read their campaigns, their re-election or election campaigns, they all speak about affordable housing and the availability of affordable housing and agriculture. But yet when they vote, it's just the opposite. I'll read and I won't mention anyone's name. This is from a council member's website,. And I would like to ask you to take a look at the first slide. And I would like to ask you to take a look at the first slide. And I would like to ask you to take a look at the first slide. And I would like to ask you to take a look at the first slide. And I would like to ask you to take a look at the first slide. people to get from east to west west to east. Under food reliance and agriculture and I quote from the challenges of the pandemic and the unsustainable costs of goods being imported from outside the state. we must take on a greater role of producing local products. We have the resources to take on this challenge and create efficient food systems, providing healthy meals to our people. We will need to work with our state partners to bring these products to our neighbor islands and to take on the water and pest challenges that threat nerd crops and livestock. We must also engage in the community to strengthen our agriculture workforce streamline our market for small farms and support our agriculture network. My favorite actually is a council member had I think it was a campaign poster. Thank you so much for your testimony. At this time, we'll have to move on. Chair, your next test of the next testifier is John Kowano to be followed by Victor Fergettstrom. John, when you begin, you'll have three minutes per agenda item, bill 198 and 199. If you transition clearly, if not, it'll be three minutes total. If you could just reintroduce yourself as you begin, please. Good morning, everybody. Hope John, if you could just start there. Can you hear me? Yes sir. Thank you. Thank you very much for taking the time to hear our testimony. My name is John Coano. I reside on the Hona Cazide of the property. My family's been there for three generations and I for 61 years. CC also resides there whose grandfather was the train officer in my mail. Saw the peel out kids know her grandfather. So she is related to the Pernover Opss and she is related to the Kamakavivolis. Now I went around the neighborhood and collected testimonies. Did you get these in your packets? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay, bomb. I collect. Okay. Okay. I collected testimony from people across the street who will be directly affected by this project. Along with pictures of available commercial spaces also should be in your packets Please take time to read today's testimonies and This is to show that we're just not neighbors opposing this project We are a community opposing this project Yeah Then from then there are two main key oppositions like everybody has been repeating. The infrastructure in Y-Mail cannot support more development. And the need to preserve Aeglan is priority for us. And our concerns is how will this set a precedent for future generations and how will this protect aid? Having a single road running through town, it's the only pathway for Helos's freight, for the west side's fuel, for that workforce, for that entire homo-coho coast to go to the hotels. On top of that, we bear traffic 30 schools, three middle schools. Sorry, I've got thrown off. But anyway, we have traffic in the morning from three high schools, three middle schools. We're at our capacity. The examples when we are at capacity is the La Hina Fire. It's the fires in Southern California. It's the hurricanes from North Carolina. It's the total failure of state, county, and federal government. So that's what we're preaching. We can't just keep building and building. We're maxing already. Mr. Metzler's team has said this project has been in compliance with my media development plan. Yes, this is true, but he has changed his owning back to AG right now. It's not in compliance with any plan. You know, Mr. Metzler is requesting 10 separate TMKs, three for the front, three commercial separate TMKs, and I believe it's seven for the back when you split the two homes. This is gonna provide a lot of congestion in that area. If he was planning for a like space for offices and businesses, why does he have three different TMKs on the commercial? And then if he does have these three different TMKs, each one needs sewer, each one needs power, and each one needs water, and they need egress. So I'm questioning if we're providing this for the community, why do you have three different TMKs? You know, that's my concern. And then Parker Ranch has set aside these 28 car parcels, which runs from mail-on to the experiment station. This is considered prime egg lands. It was ideal for growing vegetables in World War II. And meat from parker ranch also supported the camp at Tararra. It was a vital effort, still a large producer of vegetables. I believe we are on the horizon of hard times. We have 123 percent debt to GDP. We have 7 percent deficit to GDP. We have a $36 trillion debt to debt. 30 seconds. Countries are selling our our treasuries, you know, it's time that we focus on ensuring our agriculture and we're ensuring our ranching. We ship our cattle out and we ship our cattle back. We need to assure our, I guess sovereignty is the word, you know, in economy, because bad times are coming. Thank you so much for your testimony. At this time, we will be moving on to our next testifiers, Victor Fergistrom, to be followed by Julie Stau. Victor's testifying on bills 1-98 and 1-99. Again, if you clearly transition, we can reset your time. It's three minutes each agenda item. If not, three minutes total. If you could just reintroduce yourself when you begin, Victor, please. And if you could just hit that button at the base of the mic to turn it on. Hope the other one, the other one, the blue one. There you go. Good morning, Council. And thank you for the opportunity to speak before you. I clearly am in opposition for this bill 190, that's 199. I'm a resident about five properties away from this parcel that's been discussed. One of my main concerns in regards to this development is preservation. Excuse me. The reason I see a preservation is this lands that are close and coming in contact with this one property used to be farmed by old time farmers and was pretty much the bread basket of the Hawaiian islands for farming. Unfortunately due to progress and people's interest in financials, farming is hard work and requires a lot of time and effort and some full a full-time job every day of your life. And for the new generations to cope with the economics, they chose to do otherwise sick jobs and create some kind of feasibility of economics to survive. I concern in my thoughts is if this is so, and if we want to transition back to farming and utilize this lands that is basically considered the most fertile lands in the world by mail, a koala mountain. If change has come about in this development, how can we go back to this preserved lands that's already overtaken and developed for commercial use and or downsizing the lots to satisfy people that want to invest of a higher economic feasibility, not basically the local people. And I was at that meeting on Tuesday, where 30 seconds. I'm going to transition into 198. I was at the meeting where Mr. Yusius says, held a meeting and yes, there was poor communications and interruptions which was very... blew my mind to see the structure because there was a lot of confusion and people couldn't read. It was a very coherent. But aside from that, the whole energy of the room had expressed concern on the majority side that we don't want this as local people. We don't want these changes and it's's not affordable for the local people there, in my mail. So where do we go from here? We slowly feel like we've been pushed out of this lens. And yes, I looked at one of the newspapers that was in my mail. And on the headline, it says, every single day, there's a local person that's moving out of the islands, going elsewhere. Where does Utah, or Colorado, or where it is? But the point is, why are we being pushed out of these lanes? For our vulnerability, we can't just get them fored. So that's about basically what I have to say is where's the preservation and what are we going to do to preserve this area or we're just going to let development come in and change everything and are we able to revert back to what we basically our predecentence has done in the past. Are we able to go back? Or is it too late? We do the steris and price wars and how are we going to be self-sustaining if we're going to allow this encroachment I sort of speak and changes to come about how are we going to revert back to say, you know what, we got to go farm. We got a lot of institutions and teaching establishments in this day, the teaching in younger generation kids to farm and basically where are they going straight down to what I feel value to teach farming because guess what the lands are on a affordable to get on the land and do dry land farming thank you very much for your time thank you so much for your testimony chair will transition now to Julie Staule also testifying on bills 19 198 and 199 to be followed by Sharon Olson. Julie, you'll have three minutes per agenda item if you clearly transition. If not, it'll be three minutes total. If you could just reintroduce yourself when you begin, please. Aloha. I'm Julie Staule, live in Hamakua. I thank you, Council members, for your service and for your time and for listening to the community about how this is going to affect us all. And I oppose Bill's 198 and 199. From what I'm hearing, the proposed project is detrimental to Waimea and our community. I was at the meeting the other night in Waimea. Thank you, Mr. Hustis, for holding that. I was very surprised to hear what CC said about not having it in another location that would hold more people, such as the Hawaiian homelands, because it was not ethnically... I forget what she said, but there was an ethnical problem with having it there, and you know, I'm thinking about the mayor's meeting tonight in Waimea, which is being held at the Keck Observatory, and it just makes me think like... How is that okay when as a community we're being affected by these big projects? There was overwhelming testimony and opposition to this project when it was presented to the Leeward Planning Commission and hearing from Kalani Flores about how many people testified in opposition. I mean, I'm only finding out about it more recently that this is happening and the impacts that it will have. I'm shocked that it's gotten this far without a lot of people even being aware of it. I've talked to many people to just let them know this is happening and that they can give testimony, they could send in testimony yesterday, but many people I've talked to you don't even know it's happening. So the outreach into the community by the developer to be able to listen to the community voices I think is so important. You know we've seen this happen, Oahu, Kauai, Maui. We see it on the big island, these things changing, and so many locals moving away because they can't afford it. I mean, this is economic genocide, and we see local families not being able to purchase land in Waimea, not being able to even rent because the rents are so high now. And there's a lot of commercial property available. 30 seconds. I'd like to transition to one in the United. Thank you. So agriculture land needs to remain agriculture land. You don't get it back once you change it into another designation. and when Momi was sharing about how this land is so unique and the soil is so full of life. As a county we should be working to grow our food for our local community. We are heading into times when we can't afford all of these, shipping of food in. We see our prices going up and up and up. You know, why aren't we focusing our energy on growing food here now? There's a lot of egg land. There's a lot of land that's been monocroped. You know, we see how traditional food forests were cut down to bring in sugar and how that's affected the whole community and that continues to this day the monocropping. We need to return to those food forests to be able to sustain our families, our communities. This project is non-inccompliance with the Hawaii County General Plan, the goals and policies that pertain to Ag Land and commercial development. And from what I heard at the meeting the other night, this is also a flood zone. So if you try to build on it, if you alter it in that way, what's going to happen when there's big rains? How is that going to affect the other properties and the land? So I'm just asking you to please listen to the community, hear our voices and our concerns. Please protect my ma'am from overdevelopment. The severe impact, the traffic that's going to create, if this goes through, the congestion and already congested area. This is a big concern for us. Those that travel to IMAI all the time who live right there, who experience the traffic on a daily basis. So I ask you to listen to our voices and respectfully ask you to say no to approve Bill's 188 and 1999. Mahalo. Thank you so much for your testimony. Chair, your next testifier is Sharon Olson to be followed by LaDonna Shirley. Sharon is testifying on Bill's 198 and 199. Sharon, you'll have three minutes per agenda item if you clearly transition. If not, it'll be three minutes total. If you could just reintroduce yourself as you begin, please. Hi, I'm Sharon Olsen. I'm a homeowner in Waimea. I'm opposed to 198. I'm opposed to 199 also, but I'll talk about that in a minute. You really, maybe the rest of you don't really realize how magic the land is there. It's truly magic. Mr. Ishihara, as Samae Ishihara was a good friend of mine. He taught me bonsai. He came, he was born on this island. He was a Japanese man that was not in turn during World War II because he grew all the vegetables for the military. It came from this land that you want to pave over and put commercial buildings where are we going to get magic lands like this? Hawaii has magic land and I'm not sure that anybody here really understands that because I don't understand how many times do you have to hear no before you get it. We don't want this. We don't want this in our community. We don't want people outside the community deciding what's going to happen to our magic land. This magic land is so magic. I put a prayer in the ocean back in 1986 and my house started calling me in 2003. I had dreams in my home until I put my foot in my house and I knew it was mine. But one of the stipulations was I wanted to piece a land in Hawaii where I would not be taking any land away from Hawaiians. I didn't know until I purchased the home. My land is in the Mahele. It's protected. The King designated as a place for non-Hawaiian to own the land. It's the only place on the island that actually has that designation. The rest of it, no, the people don't own the land. You may sell it, you may deal in it, but they really don't own the land. It's not designated in the mahala. So please understand, we have very magic land. And I personally do not want to see it paved over. I don't want more. It already takes me from Mono Road into town. It already takes me 15 to 20 minutes. 30 seconds. Yes. I'm opposed to both of these bills. 198 and nine. I'm Sharon Olsen. Thank you. Thank you so much for your testimony. Chair, your next test of fires are Ladonna Shirley to be followed by Janice Spear. Ladonna, if you will be testifying on bills one, nine, eight, and one nine nine. Three minutes each agenda item. If you clearly transition, if not, it'll be three minutes total. So if you could just please reintroduce yourself as you begin and you can hit the button at the base of the mic, that green button. And there you go. And reintroduce yourself because I'm sure I messed up your name. Yeah, my name is Ladonna Shively. And thank you for letting me speak. Everybody's already said everything I wanted to say. So I think I'll talk about something else. I've been in the islands for 50 years. I lived in Molokai for 15. And after we moved away from Molokai, I realized from what's been happening now why Molokai is the only island that hasn't been ruined. Every other island has been ruined already. But Molokai, the people that live there, the Hawaiians, the residents, the Kama'ina, they take care of the Aina, they take care of the people and they stand up against big development. And I really see it after I went to that meeting the other night in Waimea and all the Hawaiians that were there and all the people that were there and every person there with the exception of maybe one or two are against this project. And I just don't understand how, why isn't anybody listening to that? Why did this even get on the jacket or whatever you call it to be changed over from commercial in an egg place where the land is so fertile there to grow vegetables and fruits. This is where a lot of Hawaiians live and all of a sudden now their peace and serenity is just going to be completely gone all night all day. They're not even going to be able to sleep at night because of lights from the three different commercial buildings. I just don't understand how you could even pass something like this. I oppose bills 198. I oppose bill 199. You can't, I remember talking to some elderly couples 15, 20 years ago, and they were scared to pull out of a hoolly circle to even drive in the town. It is a bit in Hysa. It's like, and now it's ten times worse ever since COVID happened You know how many more people have moved here from California and New York or Camino transitions 30 seconds The other the other bill We have commercial buildings everywhere all over you know the monolony there's tons of them that are in the king's shops, the queen's shops, half the buildings up in Y-Mia, you know, a lot of them can't afford to run their businesses there so they close up. And I just don't, I don't understand how this keeps coming back on in front of the council again and again and again. Why aren't they listening to the people, the Hawaiians and the residents? The town is way over congested already. You can't even drive like I pull out of CC's driveway and I'm scared to death to pull out of there. And I can imagine, I'm almost 70, I can imagine the people that are 75 or 80, it's ridiculous what's going on. And if you ever heard of a moratorium, because that's what needs to happen, they need to stop acting like these islands, like they're in the mainland. We're not in the mainland, even in the mainland. I had to go and take care of my mother-in-law before she passed away. They have a muntorium in Boulder City outside of Las Vegas so that there can't be so much building. They have speed limits where you can't go over 15 miles an hour. You try to pull out of any of those parking places, any of the commercial or any of the residential areas and that people people are going 50, 60. I mean, do lucky if you can even get out of there. It's nuts. I can't even believe it. It's just ridiculous. The way this state and county has not kept up with the infrastructure to help. The island grow in a decent way. It's just mind blowing to me. The meeting I went to the other night was so heartfelt, I just was like, you guys aren't listening. People are not listening. Why are we catering to these rich developers that have been building and building and building for 20, 30 years already. They already have enough money. Why do you want to take Y-Maya and do and ruin it with more buildings and more homes? There's enough there already. That's, you know, I just... That's all I have to say. Thank you. Thank you so much. Sorry, but I just give you a chino. Thank you so much for your testimony. Share your next testifier is Jan Espirit to be followed by a poor case, both testifying on bills 198 and 199. When you begin, you'll have three minutes per agenda item if you clearly transition. If not, it'll be three minutes total. When you begin, if you could just reintroduce yourself. Hi. Ah, Allah akhaka, khayaka. Oh, Jan, kaho, pulani, asperi. Ma, hanam, oh, kuleo, oh, or ahu. Back in the day, 72 years ago when we were pig farms, you go over there now. You don't see anything like that. And you don't know your neighbors. I was, I am the great granddaughter of Helen Lindsay Parker, composer of a Coca-Cola Falls, who we all know. I love that song. My Oana is Lindsay's, Perthy's, Riddies, Steven Alc. Everyone that I can call Oana, Lindsay's, Perdi's, Riddies, Steven, all everyone that I can call Oana, we all come from Al-Sawain-Mia. And my father was raised by his grandma here on Parker Ranch. And so we were all called back here anyway to say that kuakaldas and gave us a vision that we would not only come to own and appreciate and build upon the lands that were left for us but that we were perpetuate in integrity and in a heart and in the ways of our kupuna whichau, which we pulle, and I wanted to present a new perspective or a Maokie Okai Nikuponau. The life of our land is perpetuated in righteousness, but it is, hey, how come no? What is that, if righteousness, it is different for each people. For the people who came long ago and saw opportunity, it's a different kind of intellect and way that they approach what they want to do for the futures in perpetuating righteousness. But for us the Maha'i Nana, we the people of our Ina, humility, and if we are in Pule, we would be listening to the wisdom and what comes to us rather than just the mental that says we need to move forward in development. Development can be in understanding that we need to take care of our land now, which is left to us in richness and in singularly knowing that there will be no going backwards if we develop our agricultural land. And as Mr. Metzler mentioned the other night that we don't have enough young people wanting to endeavor to farm. I would like to go into the opposition of 199 now. And so in saying that we have many young people. I am one of the co-founders of Kanboka, which our vision, as I gathered with Kukukakalla was to be able to have our children be here our children I have children five 16 grandchildren and five great grandchildren we made a school so that every one of them can go become Kumu and become students warm to the tomb we began by teaching our kids from the time they came out of the opu. And what it boils down to is we do want to farm. Our kids do want to farm, but we need to provide them with the opportunity. And that opportunity, we do it canoe by teaching them everything about farming, about the peepie, all the farm, all the animals, and we also, I must say, we grow our own food as well, and we share. Just as we go to the ocean, mountain to the ocean is my earrings indicate mountain to the ocean. We share, we develop in the ways of what we came from. Not about moving towards business, but rather moving in our spirits and in our homes towards what is ponoh, ponoh to us is caring for one another. Kekahi, kekahi, love one another. It doesn't say to love development and I wanted to add one other thing that was so hurtful that made me see division the other night, Mrs.zler who I haven't met personally but she did identify us always as you people those people and as she spoke out of line she would say you people is as if we are doing for you people what we think is best what we envision is the future for you people but they don't live where we live. And I do live right one minute from that I know. And I will forever live there, my children, my grandchildren, my great-grandchildren. And I will be Almakua in the sky helping them. And I want to say that we are supposed to be a kakou, Allah Fui. They do not live where we live. They will not experience the traffic or the water division or diversion. We are so rich in so many things, but it is not what it called money. It's called the Aw-gif-sus integrity and gives us guidance and Mahallem. All of you for listening, for showing up, for opening your hearts, and I wanted to mention that I heard our dear Colony floors offered to Mr. Metzler the other night. In graciousness, there is a way around our oppositions towards one another that we could work together and be sick. He told Mr. Metzler, you could turn this around. You know, everyone could turn around with humility and say, what is best? What is best is to listen to the people. Yes. Thank you so much for your testimony. Chair, your next two testifiers are a poor case to be followed by Anne Cahopi. Poor will be testifying on bills 198 and 199. Again, you'll have three minutes per agenda item the . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 98 Hello everybody. Hello, council members. The last time I was here, well first of all opposition to 198, 199, I'm from Poo Kapa, Waimea. The last time I was here, I remember saying that really we cannot speak for our people. There's ten of us or so that are always testifying and especially if you're not from Waa and you don't sit with us, you don't drive through that corridor, you don't live there, then we need to bring the voices of the community to you. And so you graciously allowed that postponement so that we could hold a community meeting. So today what I'm going to do is I'm bringing the voices of the people to you so that you can really see the opposition. So last night, my husband printed 880 pages of testimony from the Leeward Planning Commission. So today sitting with me are 880 voices from 2023 and 2024. And I'm not going to hand this in today because you've all been given an electronic copy of all of the testimonies. And in fact, when I left the house at a quarter to seven, our printer was still going. I also brought 50 testimonies from the meeting the other night and I'm going to just be the voice of the people today because I can and especially if you don't come from why may I just want you to see how many people have opposed because if you're still going to vote yes for this, when so many of our community have opposed it, I'm wondering why that could be, because certainly if I was up there and your communities came with this much opposition, I don't think that I could do that. But what I'm going to do is start with my ending because I ran out of time last time. So I'm going to start with my end. Leadership is difficult. I should know that, especially in a community that's not passive, who are vocal, passionate, and connected to their community that they live in and to the land that they live on. I've found that when dealing with controversy, it's best to be transparent and engaged, even when it's hard and uncomfortable. There were 150 people at the meeting with one day's notice. If we've given just a few more days, it might have been twice that amount. So what I'm going to do is summarize what I heard at the meeting from going through what I am going to hand in, which is these 50. So I'm going to quote a few people at the meeting. This plan and its applicants do not have the preservation of our community and its longevity in mind. The infrastructure is ill-equipped for the commercial development and this plan is also unaffordable for the average community member here. Preservation of the most prime agricultural lands and making sure it's around for future generations is of the utmost importance, and that was written by a youth who was there. I own a property that will be directly affected by traffic. The road I live on is off of why Kilehua and traffic is already horrible. Why may I also has enough commercial space, strongly opposed as a lifelong, a vity resident, I've been in why may I for almost 30 years too. So I'm now just going to list some of the things that I extracted from here. Yes, Waimea was the bread basket of the island and if you were at the meeting you know that many of the people wish that to return. In sufficient infrastructure no traffic plan to support increase in activity. Resoning here is opening up other areas to areas to be resowned, which is not in the best interest of the community. One person said nobody was addressing water and the insufficient amount of water because it would take a toll on our water system. Perpetuate farming and sustainability, especially with the best soil tested in that area. Affordable houses are not affordable there. The increase in the land tax, rezoning of Ag Land is irresponsible. Commercial business there is not needed. Why may I doesn't need more shopping centers or offices, Kona is a good example of failed shopping centers. Flood zone instead spend our time restoring forests, providing food for our people and taking care of our water. Concern about sewage. Lastly, I live in Whyimea, my whole life, until we bought a house in Afu'la. Waimea will always be where my heart is. Unfortunately, it's too expensive for its long-time residents. We cannot lose any of our precious eggland to rezoning, especially projects that don't support the community. The people here tonight overwhelmingly oppose this. Please listen to the community you represent and do the right thing. And really you all represent. And we are asking you to do the right thing when there is overwhelming opposition. Thank you so much for your testimony. Hello. Mahalo. Chair, your next testifier here in Hilo is Anne Cahoe Opie. Testifying on bills 1-98 and 1-99. You'll have three minutes each if you transition clearly. If not, it's three minutes total. And if you could just reintroduce yourself as you begin, please. Aloha. My name is Anna Cahoe. P. I live in the district of Pukup, Hawaii, Mayor and James Houston. This is my council representative. I'm opposing bill 198 and 199. I want to talk to a large amount of what the meeting was like on Tuesday. Despite obstacles, we had around 150 people who attended our meeting. 99.9% opposed the project stating that it doesn't benefit our community. The attendance would have been higher if the meeting had been better planned. The venue was not adequate and Mr. Houston was informed of that well ahead of the time the meeting was held. People were left, people left because there wasn't enough parking. There weren't chairs for everyone. There was no microphones, so it was hard to hear each other. There was no agenda, so people had no idea about the meeting format, about the timeline, or the goals or objectives of the meeting. The room was set up with a large screen in the center, and James presented the project on his laptop, and then brought Mrs. Metzler in on Zoom. She was allowed to speak freely and without interference throughout the entire meeting, often talking over other community members who were trying to keep their testimony within the three minute timeline. Different periods Mrs. Metzler referred to us as, you people. Many did not have the opportunity to share their concerns. Our local community, I wanna say this for for our local community who may be listening because I want to correct a statement that was made and defense of the project that they followed the law. For me it was like, was the law followed or was it circumvented? Four postponements were allowed for this project and were granted in order to run the clock on outgoing planning commissioners and county council members only to come back for approval for the zoning changes when favorable commissioners and favorable council people were in place There was a large amount of confusion regarding the dates and times of the meeting. There was nothing posted The meeting was announced on Instagram with a general weekly talk story that Mr. Houston does. Other than that, no one knew about the meeting. Our community had to go out on our own and post flyers throughout town, take over and email and text people to let them know about the meeting. We weren't able really to do that until the weekend before the meeting on Sunday and Monday because the meeting venue then changed. That was also not announced by our county council member until Monday and the meeting was Tuesday transitioning. Thank you. Confusion regarding the dates and time we're really hard for the meeting. We would have had a much better turn up. I'm going going to go my concerns that were echoed by the community. Property tax is our skyrocketing. We don't have infrastructure for more development. Resoning egg lands directly relates to this starting cost of food, which is up 41% in the last five years. And with tariffs and wildfires, the cost of food is also expected to skyrocket. Resonting the richest, most fertile egg lands on our moku is reckless considering we import 90% of our food and we only have a three-day supply. My personal concern is the gentrification of our community. The project contributes to the soaring level of gentrification that we're experiencing in our community now. I've lived there for over 30 years. I live in Hawaiian homelands and I can tell you I do not recognize why I'm here. I can go to a store, I can go into town and I literally feel like I'm in another place. I don't even recognize anyone anymore. The development continues to intensify the same economic disparities that support the divisions that we have right now between the halves and the have-nots. For myself personally, we have three generations living in our household. My taxes have quite droopled in the last eight years. My children cannot afford to stay where we are. And we're on Hawaiian homelands, so we don't have the tax pressures that people have who have fee simple homes. This is continuing to displace our local people. Mr. Mezzler has had the privilege of developing 25 of the most expensive properties in Hawaii, and that is his model of success. And that has exacted a price for our local people in the loss of access to beaches, traditional gathering and ceremonial grounds, camping and fishing grounds, and the dream of owning homes since we are no longer, not only able to afford, but also to mollama our places. Our community deserves equitable treatment, meaning fair treatment for all parties involved. Free and favorable from any bias or taking any sides. It should be impartial and it should be unbiased, meaning free from undue bias or preconceived opinions of who deserves to have zoning and who doesn't. I can't tell you enough of how painful this process has been for me. It's unbelievable. It is unbelievable how ignored we are. I'm, that's all I have to say. 30 seconds please. Thank you. Thank you so much for your testimony. Chair, your next two testifiers here in the Heelow Chamber are Vanessa Lumb to be followed by Zith and Barrel's. Vanessa's testifying on bills 198 and 199. You have three minutes per agenda item if you can clearly transition, if not, that's three minutes total. And if you could please just reintroduce yourself as you begin. Before you start your testimony, I just want to remind the audience, we prefer if you refrain from any responses to the testimony. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Don't have to press this. I'm scared. Or first. I'll pull it. Okay. Okay. You're welcome press this. What's that? I'll pull it. Okay. Just to restate, our rules require that the audience refrain from response to the testimonies just in case, so that everyone feels comfortable in this space. Thank you. Okay. There you go. Okay, Aloha Kako. This is my first time being in an actual council setting, so I'm a little nervous. I'm gonna keep it short and sweet. I love and live in Waimea. I drive that road multiple times a day for working for my cakey. It's already so congested and I know congestion because I'm a Lahaina girl and and look what happened there. My partner and my babies are born and bred in my male. What it comes down to is that they are not come aina to this aina. Their mindset is completely different from ours. They see abundance with money signs in their eyes. We see abundance with untouched land, with all the potential to feed our people and the beauty alone in the greenery. We can't continue to keep depending solely on the outside sources from the mainland when we know we can do it here. Give us our farmers a chance and giving us a chance and keep giving us chances because at the meeting one of the Anakas said that it comes comes in waves. We're not always going to be farmers but we're raising our next alohaina. Help us restore our commercial buildings that already exist. Your wife Mr. Messler said you're a great and giving man and we want to work with you not fight with you or your proposed projects. You're saying you're doing this to create more jobs and opportunity for our local people. But restoring the available buildings will do just that. Just because you see land doesn't mean that there needs to have an eye-sour of buildings there. Keep my male country. And Mahalo for cleaning our eye now and making her beautiful. Again, John and Johnny metzzler, but we don't need any more congestion in this area. I strongly oppose bill 198 and 199. Mahalo. Aloha. I'm Zitin, Kabai Ulo, Kaimana, Barris. I'm also related to the Lindsay's, 20 years old. And forgive my ignorance. I just found out about all of this last night. So I Googled some of you. I hope that your background, Mr. Houston, growing up in Waimea is informative and insightful to this development. And I also want to remind the chair members that the community is not separate from you. We are not in opposition of you. We are in opposition of the bill. Many of you live here. That means you're part of the community too. And a community is a rather large family. And to me, what's important about family is not the mistakes that we make, but that we learn from these. And these kinds of developments and this, you know, makes you wonder why the state pays us to sing and dance instead of to farm on our land. Makes you wonder why we don't have food sustainability. The day that the shipments don't come and the grocery stores are empty is going to happen a lot sooner than we think. So for us to have the opportunity to farm on the lands where we're from is an important thing. Thank you for this opportunity to speak. Mahalo. Thank you so much for your testimony. Your next testify here in the Heelow Chamber is Mark Low, testifying on bills 1-9-8 and 1-99 three minutes per agenda item. If you clearly transition, if not, that's three minutes total. If you could just reintroduce yourself as you begin, please. There you go. OK. My name is Mark Low. I'm in to build 190, 199. I'll keep you short in suite. I came a little bit late. I do live in Waimea. And to put a case that was she just talked about, that lifelong resident 30 years, born in raised, big island, ill boy, lived in Waimea about 30 years. What she talked about, that was my testimony. So I just wanted you guys to put a face to the paper. I live across the street from the development on Calihelli, which is off Waikai Lihua. And I've dealt with the traffic for, I've been at that location since old 6.07. So traffic has always been a problem in that town. The infrastructure is just not there. And you're going to go and add three more commercial properties. Like, I'm not against development at all. I understand there's progress that has to be made in the world. But I just think that there is way too much development and not enough whether it be sidewalks. They have that little turnings in the middle, if you guys are familiar with my male, they call them suicide lanes. I raise my kids and both of them have to, what three of them overall. I have to navigate turning in and out. I have a trailer, try to turn out it anytime in the days. Crazy. That's my main concern. I mean, there's much other like as far as the water. I agree with a lot of what's been said. And I guess progress is progress but I just hope you guys listen to it. I was at the meeting last minute. Everything they said is true. Watching the Zoom call and you know seeing Miss Metsular call us you people was really is frustrating to sit there with all like the young generation and the younger most of the guys in the room last on tonight's award here but I can tell you yeah it was I would say close to 99.9% of the room was against it so I just wanted to let you guys put to, you know, what was said by Miss Kakes over there. So, but thank you guys for giving us opportunity and hope you guys listen to your constituents and, you know, your voters. Thank you. Thank you so much for your testimony. Chair, at this time, there are a number of individuals who joined our Zoom Room, who we do not recognize as part of the testifier list. So I will call them out and ask if they'd like to provide testimony at this time. First of which is under the name Ian Languven. Ian, if you'd like to provide testimony at this time, here's your chance to unmute your mic. You'll have three minutes to provide your testimony. if you could just reintroduce yourself. Yes. Yes, thank you, Councilman and I. your mic, you'll have three minutes to provide your testimony if you could just reintroduce yourself. Yes. Yes, thank you, Councilman. I appreciate this opportunity to, to chime in on the subject. And obviously it's a very, a very touchy one. There's a lot of people that feel very strongly about the current condition in one day and the direction it's going in and I'm here to provide testimony and bills one ninety nine one ninety eight. I'm directly involved with the project and the Isha Harbour Road is is my driveway This project will probably affect me more than a lot of people and that like I said, it's my driveway. This project will probably affect me more than a lot of people and that, like I said, is my driveway. I want to carefully and very sensitively point out that not all development is bad. When we first started having babies back in whenever, 35 years ago, the only place we could go for an OB-GYN appointment was to go to Hilo. And similarly in 1994, 91 and 94, we didn't have any services in Waimea, and the town has grown a lot. Fortunately for all of us there, there has been the input of the community over many, many, many years. There's the Waimea General Plan that come to the community development plan. And it's been very widely discussed and reviewed and a lot of folks have had a lot of hours of input into that. And it has become the document that folks like Mr. Masler can rely on to make decisions about what they are able to do with their land and what they're not able to do with the land. And while I appreciate so much input and I understand there's a lot of valid points, there's a lot of it that's perhaps a little bit shallow, but it's genuine, it's real. And I think we should look at the general plan, because if we're going to have a general plan and land use maps, and we invite people that if they participate within those rules. 30 seconds please. If they participate within the rules and then they're turned down. I think we need to go back to the general plan and modify that. So I support this bill because I followed to enter into this deal. So I appreciate everyone's input. I understand everybody's position. Thank you so once again, I don't think all development. Thank you so much for your testimony. At this time, we'll be moving on. Chair, your next testifier via Zoom. I'm asking if Chad Wiggins, there's a Chad Wiggins in the Zoom room. If you'd like to provide testimony at this time, if you could just reintroduce yourself, you'll have three minutes when you begin. Thank you. I love my cockle. My name is Chad Wiggins. And I'm very grateful for the opportunity to share my perspective on bills 198 and 199 today. I'm opposed because of the prior infrastructure and agricultural land protection language in the South Kohala Community Development Plan, which I highlight in my written testimony. Unlike most of the testifiers I'm not from here, they came to Hawaii 25 years ago to learn about study and malama coral reefs. I moved to Waimea in 2008 and feel very blessed to be welcomed into this beautiful community. Before that I was in North Kohala for five years. I really want to thank Mr. James Hustis for creating a forum for Waimea community input. And I really appreciate how many working families in YMIA made time to attend. I saw folks who made a huge effort to be there coming directly from work, still in scrubs, directly from their kids baseball practice before dinner, right from their farms and ranches, to attend a meeting when I'm sure many people would have, rather spent that time with family and friends, but it's so important to us. I believe we all care about why man no matter where we stand, and this is not personal. My wife went to Kohala Eye with some of the applicants, Ohana in the 1990s and tells me that they're good and kind people. They're Ohana grew up here and were nourished and shaped by these lands. They should have a say about their own land within the rules and regulations by which we are all bound. Where individual landowner rights become problematic is when their intentions are in Congress with policy, development plans, community will, and the needs of the public. My professional background is in participatory planning to meet the needs of people in nature, and I believe that the collective knowledge of any community is greater than that of any individual. I've learned that a good process to engage community around shared problems and solutions yields the best outcomes. In my role as facilitator, I learned to listen deeply to and understand the perspective of folks across a spectrum of knowledge and livelihoods, from commercial fishers to environmentalists, the resort managers to shop owners, teachers, scientists, policy makers, and many more. I've learned that to listen well is to cultivate and inner silence. Through my training and process from folks like Donna Cheeing, Audrey Newman, John Parks, David Tarnis, Elani Quiocho, Kalani Susa, Ulu Tune, Noah Idyang, Rumi Sinjibal, John Morrison, and Rumi Yaten, and Fielding. I'd like to testify on the second, Bill T, please. I'm just shitting now. Go in and gingo, and many other great facilit have always been impressed when facilitator is able to help good people working together make good things happen. I sincerely believe that the South Caholic Community Development Plan was a good process that engaged people to make good things happen. It engaged so many people in our community and represents a shared vision, which is not easy to get to. The work and effort and sacrifice that went into the community development plan is a solid standard for planning. And although it can and should be revisited as we learn more, it's a foundation upon which we should build, not an optional document to be regarded when it is most convenient. Regarding the meeting in my maya, I volunteered to help folks submit testimony just outside, so I was not in the main room, but what I did hear from talking story with several folks reinforced what I've heard from my friends and neighbors here for some time. There is a feeling that it does not matter what local folks who grew up here think or say because government officials are going to make decisions no matter what our input is. There's a perception that money interest moneyed interest will always get their way and that those without money do not matter to our decision makers. This is based on many examples of past actions that have been prioritizing commercial interest dating back at least 130 years. It did not start with this project. When the same community has asked the same questions many times and the answers do not change, but the process moves forward over their concerns. It is frustrated. This frustration makes sense to me because I've been married for 20 years. And the best way to escalate any disagreement is to dismiss what a partner is sharing. When we are frustrated, we have a hard time communicating respectfully. Sometimes we raise our voices. Sometimes we say things we do not mean. We're human beings. As a relative newcomer and conflict avoider, my level of frustration may be lower. My submitted testimony focuses on facts, the black and white language in the plans that the YMIA community work with the county to create. The community development plan speaks loudly to me. While I hope you will agree with the majority of our local lineman residents and the majority of our local all our county council members to be successful. And we want everyone who speaks to be heard. We may not all agree, but I hope we can come together as a community, no matter what the decision is. Like a good marriage, a community is in a relationship with one another. I oppose these bills, and I thank you for your time. Thank you so much for your testimony. Chair, the next testifier via Zoom is under the name Huihuaolaaina. If the user under that name would like to provide testimony at this time, here's your chance. You'll have three minutes to provide your testimony. Again, Huihuaolaaina, if at this time you'd like to provide testimony, you can unmute your mic and provide testimony. Hello, can you hear me? Yes, we can. If you could just reintroduce yourself. Again, you have three minutes to provide your testimony. Just please reintroduce yourself. My name is Jeric with Eris. Oh, I apologize. Jeric, it seems like you might have jumped on a little early. I believe you're requesting for Bill 24 at 11. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. Chair with that being said, those are all the testifiers that we recognize in the Zoom room and here in the Heavow Chamber. So I believe those are all the testifiers you have at this time. Great. Thank you, Mr. Ursula. Mr. Clerk, could you please read it Bill 1198? Bill 1198 amends the state land use boundaries map for the county of Hawaii by changing the district classification from the agricultural district to the rural district at Weimeo, South Kohala Hawaii, covered by tax map keys 6-4-024-027. This was postponed on September 16, October 15, 2024, and January 7 and February 4, 2025. Please note there's a motion on the floor by Council Member Kirkowitz, seconded by former councilmember Lee Loy to recommend passage of bill 198 on first meeting. Thank you, Mr. Clerk. At this time, I will invite the applicant's representative. If the planning department has anything to say, you don't have to go over the project again. Obviously, we have that from the first meeting. But if there's anything you'd like to add before we begin on our deliberations. Thank you, Mr. Clerk. At this time, I will invite the applicant's representative. And if the planning department has anything to say, the project again. Obviously we have that from the first meeting but if there's anything you'd like to add before we begin our deliberations. Thank you. Good morning, I'm Katherine Garzen. I'm the attorney for that applicant. John Mezzler is to my left and Darren Array, who is our planning consultant, is also present here today. So thank you for the opportunity to add a little bit more color. We did participate in the community meeting for your direction two nights ago. We were hoping that it would be more of a dialogue. And that's what we were sort of led to believe the meeting was about. About a dialogue to talk about, you know, what, about the conditions, about what would be there. And it was just like this meeting, like the community did. The people who were there spoke in opposition of doing anything virtually on this property. So we did attend the meeting and it's very similar to what happened today. I mean, do you wanna add anything? Good morning Chair, Kimball, Vice-Theron Ishii, members of the Council, I'm sorry, members of the committee, Darren and Ray, reside in Hilo. The applicant has been unfortunately sometimes cast in some of the testimony as being insensitive or not aware of the concerns being expressed by the community. But the applicant is like for generation in this area. they are well aware of the concerns and also of the needs of the community. And what you see before you is their personal attempt to do something that they think will benefit the community that they live in. The process that they have gone through is representative of decades worth of decisions by state, county and community leaders. Going back almost 60 years. For example, the state language designation in this area extends about 850 feet further to the east of this property. As testifiers and as the planning director of Rakao reports demonstrate, the project itself does align with plans that have been put in place, decisions that have been made over decades that talks about not only preserving important agricultural lands and providing for housing opportunities, but also addressing other needs of the broader community. That could include needs such as spaces for medical services and care to the community. It's been a long journey. This is not the first attempt by the applicant to present a change of zone for these lands. There has been a lot of tux and tweaks made to the plan to get them to this point. And a lot of it was based on sentiments and testimonies that were offered before the planning commission. So they were not insensitive to the concerns being expressed by the community. And the applicant is well aware of those concerns. As I mentioned, traffic preservation of Aglan, they're not deaf to it. But to place those concerns, those sometimes broader regional concerns, solely on the shoulders of the applicant and the landowner, is unfortunate. As I mentioned, they're part of this community for four generations. I don't believe or we don't believe that they would do anything to harm the very community that they live in, that they live in. And they have mentioned their contributions to the brother communities from North Kohala all the way down to South Kohala and probably beyond. And I challenge people to question their contributions. And it's been significant from what I've heard. And this effort right now is no different. It is community-based even though people may perceive it differently. But again, they wish to take this opportunity to also provide an opportunity for everyone. And I hope the Councillors also see that opportunity as well. The bill 190 to 199 as drafted does contain a host of conditions. And conditions that napkin is more than willing to accept and comply with. These conditions are controls set forth by the county to ensure that this project moves forward in a proper manner as expected, should by the rezoning should it be approved by the council. So there are checks and balances. The rezoning is just the first step, the blessing as you will for them to proceed forward with this project. they they will have to buy but those requirements and if they fail to do so, the project simply cannot move forward. And that was the case in point back in 1993 when the council did approve the rezoning for the front portion of the property into the commercial district. the recession of that commercial zoning was not based on any inconsistencies with the plans set forth by the county. It was due primarily due to non-compliance by the land owner to proceed with the development as it represented. So I just want to make sure that perspective is made clear. But sorry. I think that's good. We'll go ahead and start the conversation. Before we do, please let the record reflect that Council member Anishie has joined us as well as Council member Viegas and Kona. Any comments on the bill before us? Council member Hustis. Thank you chair. Thank you all for being here. I appreciate the voices from community. To say's meeting was and this past couple has been very tough for me to be honest. I haven't really slept all that much, hearing from all sides of it, and I hear you. I hear everyone on this issue, on the issues in our community. Two days meeting was well attended. I did. You know, as promised, and I stepped forward to hold a community meeting as requested by community and by the, my colleagues here to kind of more conversation with community about this project and the process. We were scheduled for two opportunities in the community on Monday and Wednesday. That was announced a week out and that information was shared out with community members that would help disseminate that information. Unfortunately, we have to change the location because the site that was receiving us decided not to host us there. I don't know the reasons why, but they turned and said we cannot host you. So we had to come up quick scramble and I don't know the reasons why but they turned and said we cannot host you. So we had to do kind of a quick scramble and I appreciate people turning out to attend that meeting on Tuesday so thank you for being there. I've been talking a lot of community members about this on both sides and I appreciate the testimony that's come in through all of this process and the Lee Replanning Commission and through the council process here as well. I just wanted to kind of touch on a couple things and maybe ask a couple questions if that's all right, Chair. You know, in some of the conditions laid out and this might jump around a little bit here, but some of the conditions laid out in the questions that were posed in the community meeting and from community sentiment was about infrastructure. And as the property owner, as the applicant, what do you see as the need to improve infrastructure along at least the frontage side that would be in compliance with state highways? So they basically will have to do anything that HDOT tells them to do, and that is a condition in your bill right now. Can I have you basically eat the mic and talk really loudly into the theoretical here? Thank you. I'm so short. So the bill is drafted. It has the condition that not only they have to do a TIR and an update to that before the development takes place, but they have to make any improvements that HDOT asks. And so, any impacts that this development would have would actually be mitigated by making those improvements. So, I see this as helping the traffic issue. I mean, without this thing stay as they are with this development and having to mitigate those impacts, it should make that area better. So. Can I make a quick comment on that, answer? Having done several projects that entailed DOT involvement, I can tell you that DOT does not favor any input from either positive or negative from the applicant. DOT is a confined agency and they like to rely solely on their engineering expertise. Therefore, even though we did try to talk to DOT about what they may or may not require for this project, we were never given any indication that they would spend one moment of time helping us understand where they would be at the end of the approval process. They did, as you know, they did help us with the driveway. But even with that, they were really reluctant to do to say or do anything. Right. Thank you. I think some of the testimonies really been about infrastructure at large for the region of Weimea, kind of regional constraints and challenges we have in the We YMA area. And, you know, I'm sorry that this has been kind of, you know, pinned on you as traffic as an ongoing challenge in YMA. We have so many people commuting through the YMA region and the YMA area to go to and from work where they live. And we really have to have serious conversations about regional connectivity in conversations with Senator Tim Richards. This is an ongoing process. We've had years of dialogue about bypass roads to help mitigate some of the challenges conversations with Parker Ranch about other sort of more immediate connectivity issues. So these are the conversations that I need help with community about how we make this happen for the community, about connectivity, about access, and ability to safely maneuver out of areas as a disaster. We are very constrained in the Y-Mate community with particular Linseroinsero bridge, for example, right? I mean, that bridge is sitting on jacks and it has some issues there. So there's a lot of connectivity in there on Y-Made. That really constrained and limit. When we were talking about development, we're talking about building our community. Those things are really playing a big constraint on our town there in Waimeo. The other big pieces that were brought up through community testimony and from community were about our prime agglents, right? And how we preserve them, how we get more people to access them, to use them. How can we build a question to you to start off? How can we build agriculture in our community? This is a small lens from a five-acre parcel. How do you make that sort of commitment and try to tackle some of that challenges in our community. This is a very basic answer. Having the back portion designated rule in the rule district, all egg can be done there. So it doesn't preclude any agricultural operation. So I think some of the testimony, or I believe that some of the people felt that the whole parcel was going to be in commercial and the back portion is SOU is going to be state land use rural and residential agricultural. So we're not taking away an agricultural use there. Only on the front portion which is designated by all of the plans, community development plan, general plan, state land use, all plans as urban, that's the only part that is going to be re-zoned to neighborhood commercial. Not the whole five acres, just that front part. Could me add to that. Normally, when we, you know, zoning is just part of creating a proper land use pattern, right? It's people are spoken about spot zoning, but a lot of of the plans that form the policy directions for the counties has all pointed toward identifying the urban core for why may which does include the subject property. And that's where you focus the services that serves the broader community. And by keeping it focused within that urban core, it relieves potential pressures to use agricultural lands in the outlying areas. You've seen it in Y-mail over many, many years, where because of the lack of adequate commercial or industrial spaces, people have come in for special permits to establish these uses on agricultural lands. And that has occurred in numerous locations within Y.M.A. Town. That is what you wish to and hope to avoid by keeping things focused within the areas properly designated. And by properly focusing those uses within the core, then government has the ability to program the necessary improvements that will help make the area better. Whether it's traffic, sewer connections, electrical connections, whatever, drainage mitigation, it's better to keep things concentrated so you can service them well. If they're scattered, then it just makes it much less feasible and more expensive. So hopefully that partially answered your question. Can you speak to the number of iterations that this project has gone through? Through the process, through community dialogue, through feedback and testimony across the Lee Replying Commission meetings, even up till now, how many iterations, even talking to the neighbors, right? Because this is, you know, I, unfortunately I see it as like a tension between neighbors that we just haven't been able to resolve. And I know you're feeling this, Mr. Mezzler, about just the tension around the neighbors in the area. And it has kind of spilled out into the larger community, for sure. So when your conversations with them, how many iterations, how many attempts have you kind of said, you know, this is something that my neighbors believe in. This is something that they value for the community. This is something that is going to help the community here. Well, the easy answer is I have in my files over 40 different iterations, which go back to the land planning consultant that we hired early on and their take on highway access utilities and zoning. So we have about 40 different iterations of the site plan. When it comes to plans that I think would impact the neighborhood, we haven't really been given anything that's very specific. A lot of their concerns are more general. So as this thing has developed, I'd say we probably have changed between seven and ten different plans to accommodate or to bring into our design the neighborhood comments. Thank you, Chair. I'll ask one more question before I yield it? Over. Go ahead. Thank you, Chair. The last one, well, I have a number of other things that I'd love to kind of get to. So I'm just gonna speak on this one on housing. And it's, we, these iterations, and Mr. Mets, we're not even spoken about this a little bit on what if the entire property was dedicated specifically to housing? What if you had forego the commercial piece? Is that, you know, that's a question from community? Is that the, is that the linchpin of the, the consternation from community? I'm not sure. But the housing piece is really where I want to go with this. And the affordability of housing, affordability cost living in Waimea is a huge, huge hurdle. I'm just seeing across the whole county here, the whole island, across the state nationwide. And what actions are we taking as as government entities as leaders in our community to address affordability? You know we had conversations the last committee meeting about the res egg portion and the condition that kind of doubles down on the no ADU you know clause no since repelling units I I Still struggling with this because yes, it adds more density and it's a condition of the zone itself that limits this possibility but adding more density adding You know greater greater housing capacity in that space would have the cup you know the ability to have more affordable units in that area. So that's a piece that I'm still struggling with here. So when our supply is down in Y-Mia, we see huge housing costs, rates, rents are way up because our inventory and our supplies are way down. So how does this and the additional three home units on the site you know add to our stock how does it try and tackle some of the challenges we have with affordable housing and the condition for one of those pieces that you know has been spoken about how do we protect that that's an affordable one at what rate do we keep it affordable and I'll move that forward for the community? That's a pretty big question. I think that the basic answer is that by creating five house lots, five parcels, which are legally allowed there, I believe, it's hard to imagine that we're doing harm to the housing market or in any way making it more expensive. If one adheres to the rules of supply and demand, when we make five house lots, that increases the supply and would theoretically reduce or at least put pressure down or pressure on the cost of the property. When we began thinking about subdividing the five acre parcel, we did a fair amount of research and there was a good contingent of demand for small commercial lots. And I believe there still is, despite some of the testimony here today. We had a professional commercial real estate guy look at the situation. He testified to the council here that there is a shortage of commercial. So for us to stop Mr. Eustis and Backtrack to some sort of a housing, 100% housing program in order to get to your initial question. That's going to take us several years to do, given how much time it's taking us to get to where we are today. So I would be reluctant to launch into that kind of a process. There? The first application that we brought, and I think we talked about this before, the The zoning request of doing that first application was at the back portion, the urban and RS-10. And the community did not like that. They thought that it was too dense. And so that's the application that we withdrew because it was too dense. Going back to your affordable housing requirement. So with the five lots, it triggers the chapter 11. So whatever the chapter 11 requirements are on the five units for affordability, the applicant will have to comply. And that's also a condition that compliance with chapter 11 in the bill. If I could add one more thing, the 2024 County Affordable Housing Guidelines specifies that a three-bedroom single-family home at servicing people making 140% of the average medium income. That number is 653,000 based on what I saw. That is not far off from what testimony has said, Mr. Metroler represented that these lots would go for roughly about 300 something thousand and then when you put a house on it it's going to be somewhere near 700,000. But also keep in mind that these are half acre lots. That's going to provide opportunity to not only live on the property, but hopefully to have some sort of subsistence farming if that is the right term, where people grow their own food food for their own needs. So again I see this as providing and addressing some of the affordability questions because you're looking at even the counties and that's like workforce level at 140% AMI. Thank you. Cheryl Yield for now. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Justice Mr. Rishim. Thank you Madam Chair O'Youth for now. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to do these in different phases. So the first one I'm going to start with is that can I call it Mr. Coano? And members, you folks all have this map, right? Yes. Mr. Coano. This car can be... And you can come over here, but you just do your job. And just to let on the note, it was mentioned about the Kamakavivo Oli family, Peruvanoff. I'm going to send it to that. Well, I'm a family to that. My, my Nana is a Kamakavivo Oli. Okay. Uncle Oscar Peronov, a long time supporter of me, businessman in construction. So he always supported me on what, or encouraging me to run for his account, he can't remember. So I think we're related somehow. Yeah, so I just want to kind of make that known. And then my Nana's sister used to be the caretaker with her husband at Park Carensh on where the rodeo is where it has a racetrack. And at Yimini used to be there for like over 10 years. I think they worked there. And I was going to visit them when I was like maybe 10 years old, 8 years old. So I remember why email how it was way back then. So you talking about over 50 something years that we used to go there all the time. But I've heard where people here that are 30 years, whatever. I go way back. So I've seen how I email what before and through development and through everything through services and everything it changes it just changes right next to my parents house we had a senior apartment building built okay and we couldn't stop the progress because that's the needed housing that we had to get right so sometimes it just happens. But thank you. I just want to kind of make that known to everyone. So Mr. Kawano, if you're looking at the map, you're on the side of where the fish and hog fish were there right? Right, on the side of the property. Okay. So on your property, it shows on the map. Yes. There's about like maybe three or four buildings on your property. Yes, they are all permitted. No, I just ask you about the game. So what kind of product, if I can't ask you, what kind of production do you have? Are you farming on that land? Yes, I do have pictures. Pictures of our farm. No, no, I just ask you, don't have to show me. I just, so what, what are you farming? Yeah, avocado pictures. Okay of the picture. Okay, and then sort of warehouses. So, sort of warehouses is used for your production on your farm. That, and I do have a site business used for storage. So you have storage. We have our chair. Point of order, chair. Yes, go ahead, council member, Vegas. Yeah, I just, I don't understand how this line of questioning is because of the use of the areas. That's what I'm bringing up because like I said, if you have the map in front of you, the five acre parts that's in front of us, if you look at the area, there's a lot of development that has been done in the past. And as we at the last meeting was mentioned that from the Fish and Hog, Bondry going in to town is supposed to be with the CDP and with the Waimea Design Committee, that's the area where commercials will be built in that area. I think that that's an issue that's under contention. My concern is that Mr. Kowano is being asked what I even at a distance here in Kona feel are questions that aren't appropriate and kind of are making. Well, I'll leave it up to the chair. I'm Mr. Roneshav. I'm going to allow the line of questioning. I think it is relevant to discuss the surrounding area and the usage of the surrounding area. Although I do think it is a little odd to be questioning and able to. If you can keep it within the different kinds of that. So with that, then to the right side of the property, which is going towards town, there's multiple buildings on that property, right? Yes, sir. Okay. And then across the street, across your property, there's the minute stop fried chicken or that service station. Yes, sir. So that was done many years ago, right? It was done by Richard White. Guess what Richard White resolves in now? Where is Richard White result? He's in Montana. So he's created so much congestion in the neighborhood that he moved to Montana. But then so that was approved back then. For that, for that service station, correct? Yes, yeah. OK. And if you go along, there's other businesses like, I'm sure you'll have to do it. What does this have to do with this question? You have to do this. No, because you mentioned the eggsoning use. No, but you're mentioning earlier in your testimony about prime egg lands, right? Development. But if you look at this map, like you have in front of you, Yes's a lot of development that has been done from years before to know. That's what we're talking about. But then basically, there's too much development. I'm going to stop this here. What I think would be appropriate is actually to have our planning director to come up and speak a little bit about the land use I think you're pushing a tax like this. No, no, no, no. Thank you sir for your understanding. I don't appreciate this one bit. Thank you. Director Darrell, can I ask you to come to the I would like to ask the hear and perhaps respond to council member Unichie's questions about the historical land use amendments in the area. Thank you, sir, for your understanding. Aloha, Chair Kimball, Vice Chair Unishie and members of the committee, Jeff Darrow with the Planning Department. Okay. Director, so you have the map in front of you, right? So as I had mentioned before, with the community development plan, and also I guess with the design, why me a design committee. This area that we're talking about is that allowable with the planning department. In our recommendation, we look at number one, the general plan and the graphic depiction of the policies within the general plan, which is what we refer to as the Land Use Pattern Elecation Guide map or the loop peg map. On that map, it identifies the areas that we would like to see urban type uses, high density uses, low density uses in relation to commercial single family, as well as agricultural and open type uses. In this particular area of Waimea, it is within the medium density urban and the low density urban area. It's near the edge, but it's not outside of it. It's within it. And so it identifies it as being consistent with the general plan for these requested uses. Okay, thank you. They also mentioned about prime ag glands in development. Like lala... plan for these requested uses. Okay. Thank you. They also mentioned about prime ag glands in development. Like Lalamello in that area, Lalamello, Milo. Is would that be considered one of the prime ag glands? Are we talking about this property? No, I mean, well, we just don't have just in general, like because they measure about prime ag lands. This particular property, as mentioned previously, it was zoned commercial and state land use urban previously. Half of the property or approximately half is still within the urban district, which means we don't look at what type of agricultural land it is. The other half of the property is within the state land use agricultural district, which is why the applicant is requesting the change. On that portion, it's identified as B soils and prime agricultural land. Okay. On half of the property. Correct. And that's a front to the back. That would be the back portion of the property. Okay. So where the commercial area is, that would be just... It's within the state land use of Ergant, right? Okay. So my last thing is, okay, so back again, so that Lala Mulo farms area. Is that one of the key areas in Waimea that is very prime agricultural ends? That's a good story, but I think that's not the appropriate at this time. So this particular area of YMAI is very fertile. It has a combination of B, C soils, which is what is identified as very good or good soils. It are good soils and fair soils, be being good. We don't have a soils on this island, which is identified as very good. A majority of this proposed area is located within prime agricultural land. Okay, thank you. But again, if I could just elaborate, when we look at a request that's going from a particular state-land-use designation, in this case agricultural to an rural or an urban type request, we look at the long-range plan, which is the general plan, of the direction that, as mentioned by one of the testifiers, that the, not only the community, but the island had participated in to identify where they wanted to see these uses. After that, more specifically, it was the community that came together and identified these areas in the community development plan. And so both in the general plan and the community development plan, this request does meet conformance and is consistent. Thank you very much for that, for Misha. Just one last thing. I'm I'm going to just check in and see if there's anybody else because your time has expired and I just want to say that. Yes, please. Let me look. There is some family. I'll come back to you. No, but there are some families that are long time farmers. And because of the way they have to farm, they didn't want their children to continue farming. So they educated their children to get out of farming. So there are some families that I know that farm there. After they get retired, they're gonna be finishing farming already. Thank you, Council Member Anishia. Okay, we're gonna move on to Council Member Vegas. Yes. Thank you. You know, first step I wanna recognize Council Member Houston. You're in the hot seat. This is a really tough one for you, especially because part of kind of protocol on the council is or has been, you know, deferring to the council member of the district when there is a highly contentious issue like this. I suppose I'm flabbergasted also, and I wanna apologize to the people of this island that they have to sit and listen to these kinds of disclaimers and justifications to find loopholes or some way to disclaim what the people have asked for. Our job is to represent our constituents. And the constituents in Waimea have spoken. And I've heard all these different things going from the history and the years and when things were brought forward and when things were pulled back and let's remember this property was purchased about 23 years ago for $300,000. A definition of prospecting is then to sit on property for decades. This proposal would change the value of this property by millions of dollars. Let's also remember that the lots are being sold off for somebody else to build these commercial properties, for somebody else to build the homes back there. There is no guarantee they will go to local people. The lots can be built and just sat upon where they further escalate in price and become more and more out of reach for our local people. The only people we've heard testifying support of this projects are real estate agents, real estate brokers of which Mrs. Metzler has become a very successful, very wealthy family through real estate. You know, we live in a capitalist, commercialized society. So I get it. The employees of Mezzler contracting have supported it contractors, property managers. I'd like it to be pointed out that the person who testified saying there aren't enough commercial property in why maya actually manages commercial properties direct benefit. I want to say it's insulting and I am sorry to the people of Waimea and the people of this island. For the words you people being spoken about you, I am so sorry. That is, it's appalling to me when we know better. Being a descendant of colonial missionary business people who came here five generations ago, I like to think I know better. And I'm just, I'm so sorry that that is still happening in this day and age. It is inexcusable and as a reflection of the ignorance and disrespect for our host people and our host culture. Tired of white savior colonial mentalities driven by greed and personal gain. I want to point out our job again is to listen to our constituents. As council members, we don't know better than the people we represent. The people with business interests right now, like this, don't know better than the people who live. I was just at that minute stop and it took me 20 minutes to get out and turn left. The concept of adding more traffic. Let's remember our constructs of how we write up our plans and all these colonial ways that we designate land use and planning and whatnot. They're just man-made. None of those are naturally occurring, naturally relevant actual land designations. This piece of property is in a flood corridor directly connected to a stream that flows from Mana, Vakera. The history of that stream that I do wonder about. I wonder if anybody even still knows those stories. What's happened in La Mée thus far should not and cannot be used as a justification to continue zoning changes like this. What was approved in the past is why are we aware where we are now? It should not be used as a justification for keep going in these directions which just add to the congestion, the health and safety issues, lack of infrastructure. This piece of property is so beautiful. I was there just the other day. The homes that are upon it are magnificent. Can some of your guests just let you know the buzzer went off if you can summarize. We can come back to you. Okay, so I just, I just, I really, I really, really want for each and every one of us to dig deep. Don't look for the disclaimers and something that makes it okay for us to approve something that is so blatantly against the will of the people. I yield. Thank you, Councilmember. Coming back here into Hilo. Councilmember Kagiwata. Thank you all. I'll keep this pretty short. I am having a hard time supporting this project because I feel like the things that we really need in our community are affordable housing and areas for growing food. And I feel like this isn't really addressing either of those. When I met with the Metzlers, they told me that the neighbors on either side are not supportive of this project, which made me kind of question why to continue and then I hear more and more people in the community coming out against it. It does concern me that it doesn't seem to be something that people really want or need. I have this, I guess I also, I'm just reflective of like the Heelow community and the issue of, you know, building out sprawl for commercial purposes when we have an area that really needs revitalizing and we have like empty office space in our downtown as well. I have a hard time wanting to see that continue out even though it may be in our general plan that that is an area that could be built out in the future when we need it. I feel like sometimes we're looking that first because it's the easiest place and maybe the most profitable place to develop new office spaces as opposed to looking at doing something in our more dense commercial areas which could probably use the revitalization. I'm not an expert on the Waimea community but I'm hearing a lot from people here. I will listen to what my colleague who represents the area has to say before making my final decision, but overall I feel like this project isn't going to address the needs of the community as a whole. So thank you. Thank you, Councilmember Kogewada. those in the audience here for other committees we are still on the first committee of the day legislative approvals and acquisitions apologies for us running behind schedule. Council Member Kirkwitz thank you chair. You know when I entered the chambers I was really struck by folks in the gallery. It reminded me very much of the Kendrick Lamar Super Bowl presentation, the flag, the dancers divided. And I saw community members with a clear divide. And for me, it signified a real tension point that's surfacing within our community. And I think that any bill could have come before us. It is just unfortunate Mr. Metzler that it is your particular quest that is before us. But what it is highlighting is the future of our community, where are we going? The haves, the have-nots, the critical need for not just housing but affordable housing, but the resource constraints that we're facing. There's a lot of all of that really wrapped up into their project Mr. Metzler. I want to apologize to my colleague. I made the suggestion of of having a community meeting. I apologize that I couldn't be there coordinating a three day fundraiser that starts this afternoon. This week was tough for me, but I want to thank you for rising to the occasion to hold space because it's not hard. It's not easy. It's extremely difficult. I've had many sleepless nights just like you for very tough projects withinpless nights just like you for very tough projects within our community. But thank you for holding that space. I'm saddened that we couldn't find a way forward. I hear that there may have been a couple of good ideas that emerged. Uncle Kalani Flores' idea is being one of them. I hope that there is time and opportunity to explore that more. Because our Kuliana as council members is to continue to work through that tension and build community towards a collective vision where we can all thrive. And our Kuliana is to also set policy. And so this request that's before us, it might seem simple. Five homes, commercial buildings. But when you start to add it all up, now you are setting us sailing towards a specific direction. And is that the direction that we want to go? I don't know. Clearly by the testimony that's presented today, it's no. But what I will also say is, we cannot come and say no to everything. At some point, we need to figure out where development is going to go. Because we're having babies, our babies are having babies, and they need housing, right? Right. And affordable housing and agriculture, food systems that sustain us. I'm having a real tough time with this one because our job is to take a motion out of the decision making and evaluate what is in front of us. the request here the proposed uses are they in alignment with the area or not but it's really hard to ignore everything that's been presented here today. I am I'm going to suggest and I know that the messlers have many, many iterations, but my support for anything on this property will be tied to an affordability element of a collaboration with the housing land trust that we have here on our island. If we actually mean to build affordable, let's work with people, nonprofit organizations that are in the business of doing just that. If we are going to commit ourselves to any kind of commercial activity, it must be tied to agriculture. Because we talk about wanting to be food secure and with everything that's happening nationally, globally, we should be motivated to ensuring our communities food resilience and security. Again, Caltham River Houston, you are in a tough situation. We are here to support you, but those are my requests of the applicant and their consultant. I'm not trying to meddle in your community, but I think it's an important opportunity for us to build community in this situation. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councilmember Kirkwoods. Anyone else? Councilmember Hussness? You know, my personal, I'm grateful for the deference given to Councilmembers for particular districts. My personal view on that is that I want you to speak to the county at large and what it means for the county and not necessarily specific communities. I know each of our communities has different needs and concerns, but I want you to think about what it means for the bigger picture holistically for our communities. So I appreciate that, but I want you to vote, you know things how you see your community through these lenses. So thank you for that. Thank you, Council members. Thank you, Council member Kirkwoods on that. Yes. Council member V. Agas, to your point, definitely in the hot seat here. It's kind of warm back here, I ukulele. But in Tuesday kind of spoke that as well. Being in the hot seat and trying to, you know, threaten the needle between community and community partners. And those interested in developing and building community and trying to find a path forward. So trying to find that is challenging at times. So I'm grateful for all the insight input from community members, from neighbors, from those wanting to invest in our community. So thank you for that. Being in the hot seat comes with challenges. Those being veiled threats. Those being verbal assaults on spouses, so I do not appreciate that from community. Please make that known. That does not how you earn my support. That is not how you earn my support for anything, regardless of what you're talking about. You do not earn my support that way. Just going to make that very clear. I'm here to work with you. I'm here to represent the communities of the North and South-East District. I have a lot of aloha for you and all that we do in the community together. I grew up in Waimea, but over there 30 years now, we're on a Wahoo, we're a group in Waimea. I've seen it change, I've seen it grow, and I understand the constraints that we have in the white-mate community. And I understand the constraints that we have in the White Mead community. So some of the thoughts I've had over the past couple of days and the questions and not really necessarily have an answer for it now and here. But one, Mr. Kowano, thank you for being here. Thank you for speaking about infrastructure. Thank you for speaking about infrastructure. And I know I've had this sitting on the South Traffic Safety Committee, knowing clear well the challenges we have in the region. We have major hurdles and I need support on those sort of issues going forward. And it's going to take working with our state partners, you know, to find the common ground there. The piece about agriculture is really just a question to community and us as we face the challenges of the future. About how do we build community, how do we support community with our agricultural parcels and our agricultural property? You know, how do we better support our farmers and our ranchers? How do we create a cultural legacy of agriculture? This is ingrained in the hills of Waimea, in the plains of Lala Milo, right? Of all of the Kohala region. So what steps are we taking to educate the next generation, to get on the land, to work the land, to feed our families, and really support our food systems at large, right? And how do we help and commit to this sort of endeavor? With the challenges coming down, and the goals we have, we have work to do, we have a lot of work to do. And I need help from those that want to invest in our community, Mr. Metser, I need your help to kind of find this path forward as well. And those like yourselves that see a future for why Mia through your lens, as well as the history and the collaboration willing from the community partners. So there's partnership to be had. I'm I'm just not seeing it right now. I don't know we've had this community meeting. I know you've reached out personally to members of, you know, the opposition side to find common ground. It's been a lengthy process. I still think there's something we can do. I just don't know exactly what it is. I was hoping Tuesday would kind of... It's been a lengthy process. I still think there's something we can do. I just don't know exactly what it is. And I was hoping Tuesday would kind of provide some insight into that. And I'm grateful for the bodies and the people being there to attend and provide their monotony and EK on these pieces. When it comes down to it, if you saw this on a piece of paper, and you see the alignment on the YMET Town Design Plan and the CDP and the General Plan, yes, it goes forward, right? It matches all these things about how do we see the bounds of community? Where do we define development? Where do we put those kind of regulations and restrictions on those spaces? In my conversation with community, unfortunately, we're looking at a community development plan of 2008. So time has changed. I still value this document. This is something that the community has come together around and supported, spent countless hours building this together. But we need to update these sort of documents in these guiding principles and visions. So the general plan coming forward, that needs to be that sort of dialogue and how we look in the future. And this is a good building block about it. I'm gonna ask you to summarize. I know you, I'll defer to you on this as it is in your districts, but please summarize and we can always come back. Thank you. As I say to Chair, I prefer that you do not defer to me that you really think about community at large and the community impacts and those sort of things and how we work with partners willing to do the work. Just one thing I wanted to point out in the CDP, and I'll pass it off to other council members if they have any more insight. There's a lot of value in the CDP, and I'll pass it off to other council members that they have any more insight. There's a lot of value in the 2008 CDP. One thing I do want to just point out that one of the strategies, because we have to consider all the strategies in there, strategy 2.5 speaks about this secondary commercial center on the east end of town, right? And that was in means of providing some of the necessities and means on that end so that people don't necessarily have to track all the way into the core center of the community. That's not the ultimate solution. I realize that, but it provides some alleviants on, and alleviate that's traffic congestion and kind of focuses in pockets of the community. So they're definitely some value to that. So I'll just leave it at that for now. There's an on-the-scenes assignment. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Hustis. Did you have the... Good. Good. Good. Council Member Gilaiba. Thank you. one and my council fellow council members as usual have been extremely eloquent about bringing forth all of the tensions and contradictions in this. And for me, what are the testifiers mentioned fairness? And I guess for me, just like looking at it very simply, and I acknowledge all of the feelings around this, and I do feel some of the feelings are about bigger issues around Waimea, in particular where it's intense, the sort of have not an affordability in the entire island that Those concerns and issues are sort of being placed on this, to me, is a very small project. So basically, to me, in fairness, looking at landlands and what exists on the ground? I am reluctantly and it's appropriate, well not reluctantly, but with acknowledgement of the feelings of the community or some of the community, I will be voting for it. And I just wanted to note that I believe no matter how this goes forward, it is going to continue on to the council level, whether we vote to forward it favorably or unfavorably. It will have another hearing, so I just wanted to bring that up to the community, so they understand that process. So thank you. Thank you, Council Member Glemba. Anyone else? Yep, please, Chair. I'll go back to you and Kona, Council Member of the Agus. Thank you. That's interesting hearing the reflections of council members which indicate which way people will be voting today. And I um it makes me sad because what it says, you know, we as public servants ask for community to show up and testify. And we, you know, almost beg for community to participate. And as was stated by prior testifiers, and they do and they show up consistently and then we send them the message that oh we're still going to ignore you and I'm sorry it breaks my heart. I also want to just point out because it was brought to my attention. Am I some I some people that know the history of this property that it, you know, it was zoned commercial in the front part on the highway, but the messlers actually came and downzoned it after they purchased it. And um, you know, it was a wise business move because then they didn't have to pay commercial taxes on the property or at that tax rate. It brought the tax rate down to an agricultural. And now we're being asked to rezone it. And I just, I see this dichotomy of perceived responsibility for us as council members to make land prospecting and business and growth to what is not a circular economy, which is one of the problems. easier for people that have the money to operate in these arenas, which is way more money than I will ever know. And that's okay. But I won't be supporting this and I you know it's disappointing you know, I have to make my decisions based on value systems. And I'm grateful that I do sleep at night because I will stand up, speak up, and be with our people for what they ask for. and what they elected us for. So. and be with our people for what they ask for and what they elected us for. So I yield. Thank you Councilmember. Coming back here, Councilmember Houston, sending final thoughts. Final thoughts. I have a lot of thoughts, Chair. Okay. And probably keep you here all day. Sorry. Could I have a Director Daryl come up if that's okay? Because there was a comment made by Council Member Viegas, I just want some clarity on it. On the down zoning piece, what was the background there? I just need I need a little bit of clarity on I understand You know the impacts and all that right what is What happened there and that sort of case when both you know Part of the messers take it on I'm just curious on the history there the background information on Within the background report it just gives factual information that in two, in 1993 that was the effective date of the change of zone from agricultural five acres to commercial neighborhood, 7,500. In September of 2012, the Planning director, it said, initiated to repeal the ordinance back to its previous ordinance. Now it could have been a request by the messlers. I think he could answer that, but it looks like the planning director initiated it. Thank you. Mr. Messer or Ms. Garcin if you wanted to address that. Honestly, I can't remember the exact dates or even the proximate dates when the prior ordinance was rescinded, but it was our choice. Unfortunately for the council member who just spoke, I don't know what the property tax difference is between commercial and agricultural. But I do know when we made that decision to rescind the commercial ordinance, it was because we felt like the property should live up to its agricultural potential. And our intent at that point in time was to keep the property in a use for as long as possible. So that's that's what I know. Thank you, Ms. Carson. I'm trying to find the ordinance, but it's not 2012. The background report was wrong. I believe it was 2002. 2002? Yeah and there is correspondence that the the request to initiate came from the prior the prior owner. The request came in before he bought the property but the rezoning ordinance was passed after he brought the property. Like he bought the property in May and it was rezoning like July or something. The background on that is that when we bought the property to approximately, we asked Mr. Langevin if he would do the paperwork. Mr. Langevin is one of the owners of the now owners of the property closes to Mount of K. We asked him if he would please rescind that ordinance because all of us at that point in time did want to keep the property in Ag use and that statement is substantiated by the fact that Mr. Langeman's property is a five-acre ag. And the next door property is five-acre ag. And ours was five-acre ag until well it is now, but until we decided that it would be the best, highest and best use for the property to be to follow the zoning and land use Regiments that are in place now Thank you miss Carson anything else on that no, it's just ordinance 0217 With peel Miss councilmember Kirkwoods presented an idea of the land trust. Could you, what was that possibility? Could you just explore and explain the path you kind of took looking at that avenue. I'm happy to do so. I don't have my notes in front of me right now, but my initial contact was with an outfit with the acronym of HALL-A-H-A-L-E. I have subsequent to that first contact with HALL-A. I have done some investigating as to other affordable housing options. And there are many. I look primarily at about five of them aside from Holly. Each one has its different requirements and setups. as I told, well as I think I mentioned it to the county council in my last meeting, and certainly with Ashley Kirkowitz's initiation of this topic, we feel like that's a viable option. However, if the community that we heard on Tuesday night is going to continue their opposition, I'm finding that these helpful entities tend to shy away from projects that are in dispute. So I have to say to you that I have dropped that option until we know that there is somewhere to go. There was some way to make it happen. Otherwise, no one's going to have an interest in it, but it is a possibility, Mr. Histis. Okay. Thank you for that. And it's one we would like to talk about and pardon me we're interrupting but I did talk this morning with Mr. Flores, okay It was a very brief conversation because we both had things to do other than this Sure, you're here with us now, so yeah He suggested that I request a postponement which you know, I'm kind of tired of the postponements. And I'm tired of this whole prospect of being targeted, essentially. So I told Mr. Flores that I would not request for a postponement. but if somehow somebody can come up with a path forward, I'm certainly open. But I really feel more or less defeated now because it seems to be going nowhere and I don't think I'm ever going to make the neighborhood happy. So, you know, it's kind kind of kill fight at this point in time. Some of that's not the right word I was looking for, but just the collaboration, cooperation with neighbors and community. We look at the white properties across the highway and some of the challenges that were brought on by that. You know, they had with those rezone of some of those spaces and build out of some of those areas, they did have some, you know, concessions for community. They have the senior housing sort of project, affordable units as well. I know that's not necessarily like all that possible with the five acres. There's definitely those constraints, physical constraints to kind of provide that. But I'm hearing from my colleagues about, how do we really protect these affordable rates for spaces and providing for community? So just a question to throw out there for you and this is a conversation. is what and this is I've seen the work that you've done in North Kohala with the Bond Memorial Library and the work that you've put in there you know time money blood and sweat into that space so I know that you are very committed to community and you value and share on a little half for these spaces that are these historical spaces in our community. Do you have something of that mind for the Y-Mayor community? as Catherine here has tried to emphasize for several years now. We went into this thing trying to provide smaller house lots which would be more affordable. I hope everybody's listening back there. The community, when we were at the Leeward Planning Commission stage, the community said, no, we don't like chopping up egg lands into small house lots. So one of those iterations that you were asking about earlier, Councilman Eustace was to accommodate the Leeward Planning Committee, which was listening to the neighbors. And we doubled or triple the size of the lots from what would have been the minimum of 7.5 to half acre to allow for right egg right here we set today with nothing to show for it other than more opposition. Yeah thank you Mr. Metzels. And so yes I did have that bond library type attitude when I went going into this thing, sir. But again, kill fight. Well, I just want to thank you for the work you've done on the bond library. So please, please make note of that. Cheryl, I'll try and wrap up here. So I thank you for the allowance of time. You know, I'm of multiple minds on this. There's an amazing amount of pressure that I'm feeling in the YMIA community on all sides. So please be aware of that. And I'm grateful for the support that's been shown, told community means, the support to reach out to community, to gather community. And this doesn't end here that we have work to do on a lot of these things. You know, we even look at, so I mentioned the white property across the road and the work in the division over time, some division. I know the Okata farms went through that process. They subdivided some really prime agricultural land. Those are, you know, still potentially ag parcels, one acre parcels. It's still carving up a lot of these prime ag lands. So there's a challenge of when these things happen and communities watching or communities not watching and how do we be all responsible for the work together and moving these things forward. I hear the concerns from community about infrastructure, about water, we have work to do on our reservoir system of Waimea, but not only that, it's our watershed health. It's our watershed health of the Kohala Mountains. This is some of the concerns that came up in the community meeting, right? We're speaking of water. You have the water credits for the property, so that is kind of quiet in terms of some of the opposition stance on that. But we have work to protect and preserve the water of the Koh communities. And then not to mention kind of looking ahead and forward as we develop these spaces and investing in waste water facilities across the region. Very rural community. We have worked to preserve some of our soils and our egg lines through that mechanism there. But I see people, the conversation about moving away, affordability, cost of living. And this is because we are hindering some of the development in our community, whether it's housing, whether it's business, people want a vibrant space where they can start a business, grow a family, grow crops, all these sort of things. So there is work to be done and I want to work with all of you. I want to find this path forward. This is not the last time we'll be having this conversation about the bill. It will be moved forward through council, regardless of whatever is decided here. So it's an opportunity to kind of provide more insight and recommendations on this. So thank you, Chair. Grateful for the time. How you'll do. Any further discussion before we move forward with the vote? I'll yield to you. Any further discussion before we move forward with the vote? I'll just weigh in a couple of comments. First, I'm going to start with some apologies to the gentleman here in the second row. We have, as the chair, I have the decision about how to allow things to proceed forward. I apologize for you feeling a little bit grilled. Now I understand, I just wanted to, I just wanted to apologize to you. I also wanted to just acknowledge council member Houston, this is a tough one. I think many of us walked into a tough decision when we started our first terms. Jen had the BID, I had a YPO Valley decision, but I really sorry to hear that you've had some personal threats or threats made to members of your family that's never appropriate under any circumstances. So my apologies on that. I'm gonna just weigh in a little bit on what council council member Gildempa said is that It is important that we analyze these things from a point that is kind of neutral of the asker and I bring this up because You know intamations about the intention of who's asking for the project I can recall in the last term a very very similar project that was asked for by a different person that just kind of sailed through and that I think we have to be very very careful as a body that we don't look at the same situation differently because of who's asking. And we try to attach a certain intention to who's asking. at this, the surface value and hearing some of the concerns of the community, I wanna actually ask Director Darrow to come up because I do have a question related to the fact that we have to give the state land use boundary amendment and the rezone here in front of us. And interestingly, this in this case, the state land use boundary amendment was given a favorable recommendation from the Planning Commission and the rezone was not, which I think is a very unusual situation. What sort of entitlements are associated with the state land use boundary amendment from agricultural to rural? Well, number one higher density. The minimum lot size in the state land use agricultural district is one acre. Within the state land use rural district it's one half acre. But in both state land use rural district, it's one half acre. But also in both state land use ag and state land use rural, that subdivision into smaller lots would require a rezoning action. Correct. Okay. Um, have you, um, What is the ability to develop housing on state land use rural as opposed to state land use ad company dwellings can you put? Well it depends again on your zoning. zoning dictates your, it normally dictates your density limit, right? So right now, having agricultural five acres and world designation, number one is inconsistent. Number two, it's just your standards for farm dwellings. Okay. Mr. Mitzler, the whole decision to have the commercial zoning at the front, obviously, that was part of the state land use calls it urban. The community development plan has it identified as commercial growth is is that something that is critical for you to proceed with the subdivision of the residential lots. I'm sorry. If I understand the question correctly, is it such that you're asking, is the commercial component so important that it's a So that. My colleagues will tell you that it tent to avoid hypotheticals, but there were cases where a lot of infrastructure needs to be built in order for a project to be feasible and that is often dealt with by by having a commercial component in order for you to do the subdivision of the residential RA lots, are you requiring the income from the commercial piece to make that happen? Well, that's almost impossible for me to answer because I don't know the value, what I've never split the value with that component tree because again, when we decided to develop the property, if that's the proper word, we were informed that there is a demand for commercial and demand for residential. So we went down that pathway several hundred thousand dollars later in legal and planning fees and what we're going through now. We don't seem to have made much progress. And we would certainly, if we decide that we wanna keep going down this path, it's gonna cost us a lot more money in time to break off the commercial component and start again. I believe with the Leeward Planning Commission, I'm not an expert in this, but we'd have to go basically through the whole process again. Would we not? Yes, I mean, if that were around. We would be spending another two or three years, and I don't know how much money it would cost to do that, with still no guarantee that we could make everybody happy enough to vote yes. So does that answer your question? It does, it does. And I think, you know, I think listening to my colleagues here on the dius, I think all of us have a sense of there's got to be a way to address the really valid concerns that the community is raising with the intent, which I think is if you look at the overall area, this does, it is a place that kind of makes sense for some info with housing. What I'm going to suggest, I'm not going to suggest the post-pollument because you've been waiting for a long time. I think we continue to move this forward, but I think there are some additional conditions that we can talk about. Maybe you've talked about them with Mr. Flores that can get us where we need to be. So I'm going to be supportive of that opportunity. Not sure what that looks like, but I think in the interim, maybe Council Member Houston, and you can talk or others. I think there's still opportunities to tweak this a little bit further with some additional dialogue, and I'm willing to allow for that to happen. Well, if I may, when Mr. Hughes's and Ms. Kirkowicz approached us about the postponement that we're now into, I agreed happily to listen. I was asked to listen to the community concerns, which I did on Tuesday night. But when Mr. Husses asked me if I was willing to do that, my answer was I am certainly willing, But I would like to see specific requirements or requests from the community. And I got none, frankly. Everything was broad, but there's no blame here. I'm not trying to demean or ignore anything I heard on Tuesday night. But no one said if you get rid of this component or you change that component or anything other than just generalities, then I would be more inclined to help. But we're not making any progress here. If you're asking specific questions to me, I can't answer them because I need a little bit of time to prepare a valid answer. But without specifics, I'm sorry. I just, you know, I can't see how we can go forward. Quite made. So now I'm going to look to the group here and ask if between now and there's really not going to be an opportunity to have this dialogue right here in this forum. But if there's willingness from all of the testifiers to share some let's think outside the box kind of ideas about how there are additional conditions that could be added to this ordinance that the medslers would agree to. That's my ask of you right now and what I'll just say is, you know, either contact me directly or Mr. Hussis directly and will try to work on. I mean, I mean this is the sausage making, it's ugly But. Yeah. Understood. Chair, I couldn't hear that last. Yeah, yeah. I think you missed case. I'm going to ask. I have a clarification because I don't want you to be being. Yes. Understood, understood, understood. This is going to be a collaborative effort between the director, Mr. Houston's and the applicants, and then anybody from the community community that wants to share with either of us potential definable solutions that we can add. We're not putting any names on who that person, but that for anybody here can contribute to that. So with that, no, I'm going to stop the, it's not appropriate in this forum to have this dialogue with the audience. So I'm going to ask that at this point in time, if there are any further comments from the body we'll proceed with the vote about moving this to council. Council member Villagas, checking in with you and Kona. I'm sorry, what was your, I didn't understand that last question. I'm just asking for any further comments before we proceed to the vote. You know, my one personal comment is we went through a very serious challenges with a similar potential So land utilization plan that was in my district. And I just firmly believe that it's okay to say no. So that's, and the community appreciates that because we have a lot of work to do on our infrastructure and capacity. And we don't have to say yes and we don't have to fix it for everybody. Sometimes it can just be a no, but my best wishes to the community in YMA to be able to determine what their wishes would be. And thank you, Mr. Metzler, for your willingness to be open to that. It is you're in a tough seat. You're in a tough spot. Nobody I've been told by other developers that, you know, they didn't like being vilified and unfortunately with what's happening in our world essentially we're a microcosm of it and so we're watching and feeling all of the same things on this island and they become a microcosm. And so these decisions are really, really important because they send a message to our community about the value systems of their leaders and our priorities and whether or not we'll stand beside and vote along the lines that are authentically aligned with the value systems we claim to have, which is food resilience, protection of watershed, flood corridors, and supporting authentic affordable housing projects when we're looking at any rezoning requests. Thank you, Council Chair Kimball, I yield. Thank you. Coming back here, Council Member Kirkwitz, do you have your line? Thank you, Chair. I just want to suggest that you re-articulate the process that's going to happen moving forward because when I had offered the suggestion of postponing for there to be dialogue, productive dialogue between community and the applicant. I think there was a lot of confusion around who would be leading that process and what the format would be. So as Chair of the committee, I nominate you to help hold space for that. If that's okay, I trust your ability to facilitate these types of conversations. But I think it's really important that all parties are aware of who to turn to in this situation to lead us towards some planning efforts and conversations. Thank you. you. With that council member Houston, are you okay with me being the point of contact for conversations between the community and the messlers? Yeah, let's keep it singular because you're the chair for committee here and work through you. I'm here to support you in this process. So I'm definitely to definitely involve in this. Yes. Thank you. Typically we would we would hold something that would be needing more work in committee. Looking for some guidance here. I will be absent from the 19th council meeting which is causing me some hesitation if I'm going to lead that conversation. So what do folks think? Hold it here, move it forward. Chair, we're going to have to hold it here then. Can I get a motion to postpone to the 18th? I'm wondering if the 18th is adequate time for any meaningful dialogue to happen or if we need to postpone To the call of the chair and you can bring it back when If folks have agreed because we keep postponing postponing to certain dates and then we're not ready With any real solution. So I would prefer to postpone to the call of the chair and see that something concrete comes back if it is to come back. So I'm going to take that as council member now by making the motion to postpone to the call the chair seconded by council member Onishi any discussion on the postponementment. Seeing none all those in favor please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, Mr. Clerk, you have seven eyes, Council Member Coneley, Kleinfelder and Gellimba excused. Before we move on to the next item, so just for everybody here, I will be the point of contact for any suggestions. I'm gonna ask that you get them to me within the week so we can start having this dialogue actively between now and the next opportunity to meet. Mr. Clerk, if we can read in the companion bill, then we'll do the same thing. Bill 199 draft to amend section 25-8-11, Lalameelo Poo-Copu Zone map, article 8, chapter 25, zoning code. How about you, county code 1983, 2016 addition as amended, by changing the district classification from agriculture, five acres, A five A to residential agriculture, point five acres, R A, point five A, and neighborhood commercial 10,000 square feet, CN 10, and Waimea, South Gohalo, Hawaii covered by tax map keys, 6-4-024-027, applicant, Kaupule, Hulan, LLC, area 5.349 acres. Deliberate Planning Commission's forwarded its favorable recommendation for this amendment to the state land use boundaries map and an unfavorable recommendation for the request change of zone, which allow the applicant to subdivide the property into eight lots, consisting of three retail commercial lots, fronting Mamulho highway and five residential agriculture lots. This property is located at 64-93 Mamulho, A highway. This was introduced by Council Member Enable by Request, Post-Poll on September 16 and October 15, 2024. And again on January 7 and February 4, 2025. Please note there's a motion by Council Member Kirkoui, it's second by Council Member Glimba to recommend passage of Bill 199 on first reading. May I have a motion? Motion to postpone Bill 199 to the call of the chair. Motion by Council Member Rinawa Seconded by Council Member Wenishie to postpone 199 draft 2 to the call of the chair. Any discussion on postponement? Seeing none, all those in favor please say aye. Any opposed? Mr. Clerk, you have seven members Galimba and Coneley-Eclimb Elder excused. Post this item is postponed to the call of the chair. Thank you guys for being here. I will be in touch very quickly. With that I'm going to give us a five minute break and then we'll come back to item build number 30. So the time is now 1219. We'll come back at 12 call this meeting out of recess. Oh, I am not. actually just walked out of the room. you you you you All right. I'm going to call this meeting out of recess. If we can, Mr. Clerk, can I have you please read in bill number 30? Folks in the back, we are again thank you if anyone like to testify in bill 30 please speak up now hearing none bill 30 amend section 25-8-33 city city of Hilo zone map article age chapter 25 zoning code of the what e County code 1983 2016 edition amended. By changing the zone map classification from single family residential, 10,000 square feet RS-10. To neighborhood commercial, 10,000 square feet C-N-10, at YKS South, Hilo, Valle County Carving Tax Map, Key 2-2-036113. Applicant Jack Vanderhoff, Jr. And Saul Lin-Young, area 19,500 square feet. the Inreplanned Commission forwards its favorable recommendation for the requested change of zone, which would allow the applicant to convert the existing dwelling to use as an accounting business office. This property is located at 900 Monono Street, introduced by Council Member Kimbo by request and communication 157.1 from Council Member Heather Elk, Kimbo, dated February 21, 2025, transmitting a part point presentation for Bill 30. We have a motion, please. Motion to forward Bill 30 to council with a favorable recommendation. Motion by Councilmember Nava Seconded, by Councilmember Lunishi. With that, I will ask the planning department and applicant if they have a presentation for us. Go ahead. Thank you, Chair. So if I could direct your attention to our presentation, our applicants are Jack Vanderhof, junior and sowingWING. They are requesting a change of zone. The specific location is within the South Helo district identified with a star. The applicants are requesting a change of zone from a single family residential 10,000 square feet zoning district to a neighborhood commercial 10,000 square feet C and 10 zoning district for 19,500 square feet of land. The applicants proposed to convert the existing single family single story, 1,100 square foot single family dwelling to accommodate an accounting business office operated by one of the applicants. Oh, excuse me. An existing paved driveway will provide access from Mononostry to designated parking areas including an existing two car car car port, Two new parking stalls proposed at the front of this property and six parking stalls at the rear of the property. This is the County Zoning Map, which identifies the different zoning in the area. The yellow represents single family residential 10,000 square feet. The brown represents RD or double family zoning. The pink represents commercial neighborhood zoning. This is the state land use boundary map, the entire area is situated within the state land use urban district. This is our general plan land use pattern allocation guide map. The area is identified, the subject property is identified as medium density urban, which is the orange color. To the left is high density urban, which is identified in red. This is a site plan submitted by the applicants, which identifies the existing structure and proposed parking areas. And this is an overall aerial photo of the area. You have Monono Street running in a north-south direction right in front of the subject property. And just below the property you have Leilani Street running in an east-west. The subject property is identified with a red outline. These are some sight photos of the area. On the upper left, you have the view of Monono Street looking north. The subject property would be on the left side. Looking on your lower right, you have the view of Monono Street looking south with the subject property on the right. Here are some other site photos of the particular subject property with the existing dwelling and proposed parking areas. The planning director's recommendation was to provide a favorable recommendation with conditions to the Leeward Planning Commission. The I'm sorry, Windward Planning Commission. The Windward Planning Commission's recommendation at its February 6, 2025 meeting, the Windward Planning Commission voted to forward a favorable recommendation to the county council as recommended by the planning director with an amendment to condition G relating to driveway access as proposed by the applicant. This concludes our presentation. I can answer any questions if you may have. Thank you. Thank you, Director. Any additional comments from the applicant before we begin deliberations? Sure. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chair Kimbo, I share our initiate members of the committee. My name is Darren Array, I'm planning consulting assisting the applicants, Jack Vanderhoff, Jr. who's sitting to my right and behind him his wife Salyin Jung. The request by and of itself is hopefully straight forward as the direct presentation demonstrated. Changing this property to a commercial zoning district really to allow the applicant to proceed with the renovation of an existing single-family home. So his wife is a who's a practicing accountant can conduct her business on the subject property. It kind of worked out very well for them simply because her lease at their current location on railroad avenue is ending in about a year and a half or so. And they have actively been looking for the bright space for her and her employees. And it was a difficult, it was either what was readily available in Hilo was either too small or simply too big for their needs. And happenstance, they became aware of this property being made available for sale. They looked into it and figured out that it would suit their needs very, very well. Mr. Van der Hof has mentioned to me on several occasions that during tax season, which we're right in the midst of tax season right now, he pretty much becomes a bachelor. You know, the wife is constantly working trying to take care of her clients. This home will provide her an opportunity where she can have a place where she can conduct her work, but also a place where she can feel safe, safe, you know, and do not have to simply run home each and every day. So again, it's a situation that works out well for them. The property itself is situated within an area supported by the general plan for commercial uses as it resides along the Manonono Street arterial. And as you can see from the zone district map that we have up on the screen. It is located within an area that has seen transition to other similar commercial zoning districts. So you can view this proposal request as simply like an infield type of opportunity. So with that we have, we accept the conditions as presented in Bill 30. Thank you very much. Thank you. Councilmember Cuguy-Wenner. Thank you, Chair. And thank you for the presentation director and for being here with the applicants. I'm a little bit concerned, which I just spoke to Mr. Araya about. If I were a neighbor living in this neighborhood and being next door to these properties that are getting rezoned, I mean I wouldn't be particularly concerned about a tax office, you know, but once we re- re-resone to this neighborhood, what's it called? Neighborhood commercial. Then it is not guaranteed. Then we have opened it up for other uses. So, planning director, can you just go over those again, sorry, just for the public and everybody here that Once this is re, if this were to be re-azoned to commercial, neighborhood commercial, what are the potential uses that are allowable then? Basically, any type of commercial use, commercial neighborhood encompasses any retail, any restaurant, offices, those types of commercial uses that you'll see. The intention of this particular area of Wikeha House Lots has been in transition for some time in the general plan of 2005. It was very specific in the plan about this particular transition in regards to where, as it goes through this transition where they want to see commercial uses and they identified those areas being along the major corridors of Manonol, Lani, Kola, those main streets. On the inner streets, they were looking more at multiple family type uses. But even though the entire area shows medium density, urban, that could allow for commercial, the general plan was very specific as to where to identify specific uses. This has been a pretty constant request over the years, the rezoning from residential to commercial neighborhood in this particular area. We haven't received much opposition from areas every so often we will, but it normally is approved with some adjustment to accommodate. Right. And the neighbors know that with an approval here that they could get a bar or a restaurant right next to them. I can't answer if the neighbors are aware of that. They're made aware of the application and the request through the notification process. But that's what a change of someone does as we all speak to many times. It's not a specific request, even if the applicant comes in with that. We look at it as a range of requests or a range of uses. Well, so I guess my comment doesn't have anything to do with this particular applicant or what they're trying to do, but it's more to planning around this whole neighborhood. And it being residential, having a lot of residential properties there, and how that relates back to our downtown Helo area and our other commercial spaces that need revitalization, need more people in them, need more businesses down there. I just get concerned when our planning continues to identify ways we grow out without necessarily prioritizing us concentrating on the existing spaces first before. I mean I realize you have to look many years decades out when you're looking at this so you do need to identify you know what are the places for growth but when the growth happens and it starts to feel like sprawl as opposed to you you know, we've already got an area that's thriving and full and we need this growth to accommodate more business or commercial areas. It's very different than if we have a lot of spaces and the downtown area isn't very, you know very vital and a lot going on there. So I just want to pull that attention to you as the director of planning and as we're working on these many different plans for our community. Like I said, it's not necessarily in specific about this applicant. I do once again, if I were living next door or even on this block, I would want to understand what this means to rezone this. Yeah, I do hear you, and I think all of us that work doing what we do here understand that picture. I don't, unless the public is engaged, they probably don't have that understanding. But in regards to this particular matter of Waikia House lots, it's as I mentioned, this has been an area identified to transition from residential to commercial. And that doesn't mean that we go in and we just change the zoning all at once. It just says this is appropriate. With that direction from the general plan, there has been a tremendous amount of improvements done in this area to infrastructure mainly Manonal Street. They've done a they've redone Manonal Street to put Kurt that Kurt gutters sidewalks new paving. There's water there's sewer this is the appropriate area to allow for higher density type use. Okay, so that's helping businesses. But you said like multi-family is being considered or encouraged in the other areas, but we're not necessarily doing those same level of improvements that would actually encourage people to do that multi-family housing in those areas. Is that correct? We normally what will happen is people will look at it higher picture. They'll see it's medium density urban and they'll say I want to do commercial. I'm looking at purchasing this lot, which is in an interior area. And we will let them know that, unfortunately, if you're going to try to go to commercial, for commercial uses, it would be inconsistent with the direction of the general plan through the standards, the course of standard within the general plan. We encourage growth. There hasn't been a lot of people coming in to do the interior type rezoning. They've focused on those main areas. Thank you, Plentybeth, right? I appreciate that. And to the applicants, just wondering what has been your outreach and to the neighbors and your feedback if you have any. Go ahead. Yeah, introduce yourself. My name is Jack Vanderhoff and it's actually the wife's accounting office and I'm just you know I'm just the significant out there but he's we hired him because he knows what he's what has to be done in the community and how to outreach to the people that are impacted. And have you had any responses? We've had a couple. What have been the responses? Maybe I can dare and or I. maybe I can dare and or I, maybe I can speak to that more succinctly. Right across the street, I think one lady, maybe I like two houses to the north. Lady reached out to me. She expressed concern. For some of the reasons, like commercial uses sort of like intruding into the neighborhood. So I did ask her exactly where, which lot did she live on? And then she'll, oh, I don't live there. I have two homes that are rentals. I live on several streets away. So I did encourage her to engage, but I also kind of mentioned to her that from this particular use, and we're not speaking about the broader land use policies that you're talking about is that the proposed request is probably the best opportunity your best type of usefulness property. The home is going to be used for an accountant office, generally business hours is from 8 to 5 or something on that order and basically they shut down, except maybe during tax year they have to work into the night. So the potential for noise traffic impacts will basically end at the close of business day. Unlike if you have residential type of uses, noises can go into the late hours, depending on the type of neighbors that you have. In addition, with commercial zoning, since it will bound with existing residential uses, they're compelled to provide landscaping and noise mitigation improvements pursuant to the county's landscaping rule. So that's something that's gonna be required, especially for the parking lot in the back. The neighbor joined adjacent, directly adjacent to the north of this property also contacted me. They were concerns. They provided testimony, I think it's part of your record. And they were concerned about the type of uses. So we tried to explain that there are going to be these type of mitigate measures and how I also explain to them the nature of the use. And I encourage them to reach out but I haven't heard anything further since or any seen any other additional testimony since. I did kind of take a look at the surrounding area especially that property adjacent to the north and I did know that there seems to be some sort of business over there. I think it's like a copy of repair business, but I'm not sure, you know, because records may be dated or whatever, but I just wanted to get a sense. There's a lot of improvements on that buildings on that, adjoining the property to the North. And I'm not exactly sure what's happening there. But there are more than willing to address and comply with the county's requirements to mitigate the impacts. And I think the nature of the use itself will be very should fit well within the community. Finally, sorry for being so winded about this. If you're concerned about this property being utilized for higher and better use, it's going to be a struggle. Because of the proximity to the Laylandi Street intersection, there's a turning lane or a dedicated left turn lane with striping. The county is allowing for full-turning movements from that property, but only if that driveway approach is placed on the northern extreme of the property. Mr. Vendorhov took a look at the property and, unfortunately, there is a sewer and water main connection right at that location, which means the cost of digging everything up. So their preference is to keep it where the driveway approaches now. But because of the left turn turning main, it's restricted to right in and right out only. And that's going to make it difficult for any other business that depends on frequent clientele visits. The benefit of Mrs. Yong's accounting business is so much of it is done online nowadays. And that is why client visitations should not be a problem. Okay, great. Well, sorry that I didn't reach out before this. I was way for work, but I will be supporting at this time, but I will like to reach out to some of my constituents in the neighborhood between meetings and just get some feedback from them directly. And maybe you can help me with who you've talked to already. That's true. Okay. Thank you. Chair I yield. Thank you, Council Member Kugiwata, Council Member Onishi. Thank you, Melchard. Just one note. It would have been nice if the folks had reached it out to the Council members in that area because Manono is the dividing line of our districts into in three. Yeah, and so that would have been made as more prepared to know what is going on, right? And then the question is we could ask you folks on what's going on you know in that walk and responses. Yeah so like Manono street that's the dividing up the line for the districts so on the Mauka side of Manono that's district two and then I'm on the Mauka side. our apologies for that's district two. And then I'm on the Marquei side. Our apologies for that. But in the future, folks, everything much go. I had a question for director. Now. So listening to Ms. Kagiwana's concerns about the use of their property, I remember back when I was on the council, we had an applicant come in to do residential and like was more like apartments. They mentioned that it was going to be used for student housing for the university, but the customer had concerns that they could do something else once we give them the approval. So we had in there a condition where it had to stay for the university's housing for universities to 10 years. Is there a possibility of putting a condition in there on making it, making sure that I guess bars, restaurants, and you know certain businesses are not allowed in that area because of the concerns of our community. Thank you Commissioner Lemisi. The vice chair I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. a conditional use and instead of zoning, right? We have use permits for conditional type use. We have use permits for conditional type use, we have special permits, and those are very specific to a specific use. Zoning is never meant to be used as for a specific use. It's meant to provide that type of flexibility. With that being said, there has been conditions placed in ordinances in the past by the council when they have concerns. But again, planning has always discouraged that. And it's just again, that's in our sense, it's becoming a type of conditional use permit instead of zoning. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. So I'll kind of leave it up to the customer in the district if she would like to consider doing something about it. But I've seen two where applicants come in. They got the zoning of what they needed, and then they rolled it over. And then from there we have no clue of what's going on. Because the process was already done. But I trust the applicant, I trust your consultant on what defaults are saying and you guys can be doing. But I guess for Councilmember Caguana and myself, since we border that that line that's where you know later on if something does happen then we got to answer to our constituents. Right? Yeah and so I'll kind of leave it up to Ms. Kaguana and see how he goes. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Nishie. Council Member Naba. Yeah, thank you. Mr. Array being that a specific use for the accounting business is being proposed. Just wondering why it's been selected to go with a reason rather than a special use permit. Is that something that could have been done instead? Thank you for the question. The type of use, there's no permit that is available to accommodate that type of use. The rezoning is really the only option. Use permit only allows certain uses as expressed in the zoning code, things like medical clinics, schools, churches, but beyond those limited listed uses. Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much. Teriol. Thank you. Council member Council Member. Council Member Glemba. Thank you. Just got back and I do want to make a disclosure on this particular piece because Connie is my CPA and this being tax season it's especially top of mind and I believe I can make a decision that's impartial despite that fact but I leave it to the colleagues too. They are okay with that. Thank you, Council Member. Yeah, go ahead. I'm okay with that. So thank you, everybody else. Is anything over there with you, Council Member Rivera? Yes. No, other than to say that I appreciate the line of questioning from my colleagues and the council members that represent this district and it being kind of the line between the two districts. So enjoying and appreciating the questions and conversation and exploration of other alternatives, potential alternatives. I share a number of the concerns that have been brought up. So with that, I yield. Thank you. All right. Any further comments here? Seeing none, you know, just to councilmember Onishi's point, well it might be sort of improper to restrict the uses. I do recall that we had a property similar kind of concerns where we mentioned like a quiet hour time period or that there wouldn't be noise making activities after a certain period of time which might be a way to appease the concerns about there being something that would, I mean that's usually the disruption that a commercial space would cause. But you know, I just wanted to say more broadly, One of the reasons that we don't see as much redevelopment in the downtown area is because it's now designated floodplain and you can't get flood insurance and all of that. And so as we're thinking about plant migration away from the shoreline, the Monono corridor is probably one of those areas where we're going to see in fill of commercial activities. You know property like this is outside of that floodplain area and there's something that we're going to have to think about generally as we move forward. So with that seeing no further comments all those in favor of moving oh I'm sorry there's an amendment. Clerical amendment, if I can have somebody make that motion for me. Chair motion to amend bill 30 with a contents of communication, 157.2. Motion by Council Member Ynava, seconded by Council Member Kagiwata to amend bill 30 with a contents of communication 157.2. This is the housekeeping just to align the language of the rezoning ordinance to the new language in our code. Hopefully I think the last one that will need this amendment. But the applicant is aware of this and I believe has no objection. So any comments on the amendment? All right. Seeing none, all those in favor, please say aye. Any opposed? Mr. Clerk, you have us. Eight aye's, Council Member Conelli, Kleinfeld, they're excused. Back to the main motion, Bill 30, as amended, all those in favor, please say aye. Any opposed? Mr. Clerk, you have eight aye's, Council Member Conelli, Kleinfeld, is excused with that. There's no further business on our agenda and I will call this meeting to a close. We are done at approximately one o'clock 1259. Thank you everyone.