This meeting is being recorded. Good afternoon, Mr. Martin. My name is Catherine Taylor. I'm one of the Howard County hearing examiners for the record. We're here in the case of DA24-012V petitioner is Timmy Martins. Is it Martins? And this is relating to 10688 Harding Road. This is a residential variance request, requesting a side-setback reduction to 6.3 feet from normally from 10 feet, but I think there is a previous variance that allows 7 feet correct. Okay. So have you been involved in one of these proceedings before? Yes, but it was in the wound down the hernia. Uh, okay. Okay. Well, so a lot of the hearings were done in here just because we have the equipment. And it is a little imposing, especially since we're the only two people, but it will be a little more casual since it's just you. So basically what happens is, and can you hear me okay? I can. Okay. So basically what happens in these hearings is the person who filed the petition, you know, has the opportunity to basically put their case on or put the support for their request on the record. Now you have certainly filed a petition with some supportive documents. And all that is already in the record. And so if you want to add to that by way of explanation, that's totally fine. However, you wish to do that. If you have any additional, it doesn't look like you have any additional documents that you'd like to submit. And because there's no other parties here, this isn't going to be a situation where anybody else would get to cross examine you or you would call witnesses or anything like that. So again, because it's only you, I might have some questions for you myself, you know, just to make sure that we can get, you know, all the information that we need into the record. Yes, ma'am. So basically my role is to, you know, look at everything that that's what did he want? So my job is to look at all the facts and to decide whether under the variance rules, the variance should be granted. And there are certain criteria that have to be shown by the petitioner for variance to be granted. So I might be asking you about some of those criteria just to make sure we can get all of your explanations in the record so that when I go away and look at the testimony and the documents, I'll have all of the information I need to make a decision. Okay? Okay. So, you know, if you want, it might be a good idea just to give me, you know, a little summary of kind of how you got here and why you're requesting the variance. I have read over the petition and you're narrative and I've looked at the plan, but it always is helpful to hear the person in person explain the situation. All right, here we go. When I first look at me, I want to ask you to state and spell your name for the record. Okay, my name is Timothy I. Martin's T-I-M-O-T-H-Y-I. Martin's M-A-R-T-I-N-S. And do you suddenly promise to speak truthfully and testimony about to get? I do. All right. You make a forward. Originally I built a garage. I was totally in the wrong. I got a variance for it. I did all the paperwork myself. We didn't have a lot of money. So I did all the footwork and the instructions and drawings by myself. But I did all the work. I did all the work. I did all the work. I did all the work. I did all the paperwork myself. We didn't have a lot of money. So I did all the footwork and the or you know the instructions and drawings by myself. When I got the dimensions for the setback because everything was going to be an as-built. So it was already existing and I calls the problem. So I took so just so just so you built the garage and then realized that the variance. I mean that the setback had been encroached. No, I built a garage on the nice lady from zoning. Come knock on all my door and said she wanted to talk to me. Okay. And there's no record of that building. And there were some other infractions that and I resolved every single one of them. Okay. No funds or nothing was left against me. And I was in a wrong. Okay. nothing was left against me. I was in a wrong. So I, in order to get the variance, because I did not meet the side setback, I had to show the garage on the property and I wrote on the plans. I took these measurements myself. I was very, very, very careful. And apparently I wasn't. There's a picture of a tree and the stake for the property corner was in the middle of the tree. Well, I assumed that was my property stake and I wrote on the paper seven foot because I thought that's what I legitimately had. Then about three years, four years later, I wanted to put a room additional inside of our house and I bought the plans up to zoning over here. And zoning said that your plat is Cadi Wampus. I can't give you what you want because it's not really clear. Why don't you get a boundary survey and clarify the plat and I, because I wanted more and they wouldn't give it to me and I said, okay, what you want and more what I wanted to go seven foot and they were only going to let me go five foot. Because the setback on the end of the house we were using a scale war and the plan had been photocopied so many times and the marks were not accurate and you know just a little tiny bit on a plant that's is a lot right it was almost a foot and I agreed I can't think of her name but she works your own zoning, and she was right. And at that time, we'd had a little extra money. So we would have had hired Collins and Cross, a Cross and Fisherman or some of the Servant, legit company. I'm familiar with them. And they all come out and wing bang boom, they look my property over. And they said, you have 320 more square feet than you say you do. And they put in the land or in the addition. In the land. Okay. And the whole property. I was still shot. No, she might have 125 square feet more. I'm still short, 324 square feet of an acre. Okay. That was 9.999. Okay. So, I never looked at the plans. I put them in the drawer and they sent a copy over here to you all in some kind of a fish tape looking thing. A plastic looking thing, my lawyer or something, and you have our record. So I went and reapplied for the building addition. But at the time I went to reapply for the new building permit, somebody told me why don't you get an administrative adjustment? So I submitted all the paperwork for administrative adjustment. And somebody here at the county was looking at the paperwork and looked it over and said, aha, this is out of compliance and that's when all this started. And when I took those measurements, if I would have put six foot set back that I had, I'm sure that lady would have given me the, excuse me, the hearing examiner would have given me the, I mean, and I told her whatever it takes to be in compliance, I have to be in compliance and I understand it. So there's the pickle. Okay. So I'm just going to look. So you said you were before a hearing examiner prior to this. Do you remember what year that was? 2012, 2010. Okay. I put the case number in the paperwork. Okay. Yeah. It's in there. Yeah. I can find it. And we had it in a room down the end of this hallway here. And, um, right. Everything was fine until I bought it to the attention of Howard County. I still want the addition though. But they won't let me apply for an addition until I get this problem resolved, which I understand. Right, right. They won't issue the permit until they know that the properties in compliance. Correct. Well, exactly. Have they heard that word around here a lot, compliance? Correct. Right. So it looks like there was a little back and forth between you and DPC, Department of Planning and Zoning, relating to the information that you needed to submit. When? the information that you needed to submit. When? Well, just, for instance, on July 18, 2024, there was a letter to you from Jeff Delmonico asking for, it looks like a location of all building and use restriction lines. Yes. That you provided. Yes. Okay. Yeah, I was, when I, I talked to him about a week ago and I brought to your, the office over here. Okay. The affidavit posting of the sign. And I don't, I felt a couple years of a crack, monogon. I don't remember things quite right, like names, so if I say, you know, of serve air, whatever it was, but. Right. The affidavid for the posting, and then the affidavid letter from the two newspaper letters, I bought them and gave them and asked if anything else they're needing. They said no. Okay, go ahead. Let's see. There's a four-inch discrepancy there. Did you actually get a violation notice? No. Okay. I volunteered to spring. I'm not sure if you can see it. Can I say something? Yes. Nobody is called the county and since the garage was built in 2009 or 10 and said nothing about it causing a disturbance or there's been no nothing. And I haven't made it a disturbance. Yeah, and many times that's the way that these things come to light to DPC. It's not because DPC doesn't go out and aggressively or proactively look for violations. If they did that, they'd have to have a huge staff. And so usually it's by complaint or In a situation like this where somebody goes to get a permit and you know, then there's like oh we can't issue that because You know up potential. I think I'd be what happened So I just want to make sure that so did you get a boundary drawing recently? No, it was about after I got the variance and everything was cool. My property was in compliance. I thought it was probably three years later, four years later. We wanted to do that addition. The lady at zoning said, your plat is, Caddy Wampus. And that's when I got a boundary survey. And I do believe that's when I got a boundary survey. And I do believe that's within like a year or so of being accurate. Okay. But we paid for out of our pocket. Right. And uh, this is $2,800 bucks. Yeah, it's not cheap. No. Um. But I got a real spiffy drawing now, everything. Of course. And all the lines are there. nice to have that. Well, plus if you ever go to sell the property, I can lay that down on the table and say this is what Howard County has. Right. Well, and it's just, yes. And but also, you know, you could to show it's in compliance because nobody's going to buy up. And since Howard County does have what's it called? A micro tape fish? What do they have? Mylar cop here or something? They might call it that, yeah. Well, that's the record. They have that on record. It's here at Howard County. Right. Okay, so just to make sure. And every permit I ever pulled, I had that package together to give the new home owner. And I think I've pulled eight permits on this house. Okay, so I just want to make crystal clear the location drawing That is dated November of 2017 That's the location drawing that you got By Fisher Collins and Carter. Yes, ma'am. Okay, okay, and that's the latest one. It's the only one. I only did it one time and in Okay, okay, and that's the latest one. The only one. I only get it one time. And in... So in one of the comments of the development engineering division says that the two exhibits have to vary between six feet and seven feet between, I guess, needing a six or seven foot setback, DED suggests the actual setback be confirmed by a design professional. And that's what Fisher and those people did. That measurement that saw the drawing that they put on that drawing is the exact measurement. On my drawing that I did, I marked it as seven foot. Okay. Do you want me to come up and show you, ma'am? Yes, that would be good. If you can show me where you're referring to, where you... Mr. Martin's is going to be pointing to... Is this... Well, there are seven here's well here's a survey this is the one now also two we had a is that same date to man well there this is a location drawing and then this looks like it might be something let's see oh this is the one where he wanted everything. Oh, this is a survey worksheet shows where the trees and shrubs and so okay. Okay. And that date, what's that date? Because we have to do something else for later on. I thought this is in 2016. Okay. So it looks like the one that is labeled house location drawing, final location drawing 112117, that's probably the latest one. And the one that's labeled Survey Worksheet, is that an earlier one? I wouldn't know. Okay, that's okay. So why don't you just point out to where you think this is going right here? This is the one. Excuse me, can I have a moment, please? This is what they gave me and this is an exact what it is to the penny. This is where it is. There was something behind here and it's completely gone. That's that extra picture. So the back, I was supposed to have, I think, 10 feet set back afforded the variance because my rear setback was wrong too. I am in compliance there because it is 11, 4, and 10, 9 and that bump out is going. But that bump out never touched the ground. No footings and other but they said that wasn't going to work. So I didn't want to argue I got rid of it. Here's the thing that it would be hard but can be done to get into compliance. My variance I asked for seven foot and I wrote on my drawing. Okay. I had seven foot and I wrote on my drawing. Okay. I had seven foot. The previous variance. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And after they did this, it come up between, it says, it looks like between six point one and six point. Right. So it's more than four inches. Okay. All right. For somebody's not those four inches. But in any event, it's, this is exactly what is there. That's the actual setback between the existing, is this garage? Yes, ma'am. And the boundary line. Yes, ma'am. OK. Now, this is, OK. So is it this particular variance that they're suggesting you need to get? Yes. Okay. And because I only requested seven foot and it's not seven foot. Correct. So they asked me to get a new one to apply for that. Understood. But it's for the garage, it's not for the addition that you want to build. No. Okay. And the addition you want to build isn't going to affect the setback. Is that correct? It's going to be over here. Okay. If I decide to do it and it's 16 foot six, so I can go. My other thing said I only had my original plot that I had, plot out of plot. Right. I only said I had 15 there. So this gave me an extra foot but this won't affect anything. And if I want to go within, I could go two feet more but I have to get a, oh god, I just said the word of, administer of adjustment. Okay. But I'm not, that bridge is not even going to be, well, even when you get an administer of adjustment, they still look at the very same factors. The only difference is that at the DPC that makes the decision and not a hearing examiner. So you still have to prove the same thing and frankly in some situations, you know, my experience is that the hearing examiner will sometimes make equitable decisions, more so than DPC that will literally just look at, you know, the actual rules and regulations, which is their job. This is my only issue right now. Got it. It's 30, four feet long. Okay. Okay. And so the reason, so in other words, you're not looking for any additional building around this garage area. You just want to get that garage into compliance. Got it. Thank you. I'm going to start to sit back down. Yes. Thank you. I'm almost filled with that man by the way. All buildings I've done, I haven't said everything I did. I'm almost done. I'm not going to be in my way. Old buildings I don't own house, everything I did. I'm almost done. I'm building them. And like I said, I think I had eight permits through the years with Howard County. So everything I did, I got with a permit, except from the very beginning. Thank you. So in a way, it's almost as if you're asking for the exact same thing that you asked for back in it looks like 2015 when you're before the hearing examiner, but the numbers were off. Yes, ma'am. I do not want to add anything. I do not want to build anything. I don't want to change any property lines. I just want to bring that core of my property into compliance. Because that's the only thing it's out of compliance. Understood. Understood. Okay. Okay. Let me just look through just to make sure to see if I have any other questions. Just a minute. I'm going to go to the bathroom. So, there were a couple of photographs submitted it looks like with the the petition is that right and the one of them says corner tree trunk right if it's it's got a V trunk and if you look at the drawing right they show it says property corner stake is in the corner of the two trees. And through the years it moved and they put a new stake there. It said very bad corner is a tree. It's got a V-tronk and the piece of rebar, whatever they used to market, is in the middle of the tree. And I'm assuming it moved when the tree moved. And that's what I used to gauge my measurements. And it was also, you know, it's heavy, it woulded an area right through there. Right, and I did the best I could. And here again, if I'd have measured more carefully the first time, I don't think I'd be here this time. This is my fault again. Well, I mean, measurements are sometimes hard, especially if you're dealing with I mean it's interesting that there was rebar in the middle of a tree it's almost like the tree grew up with the rebar in it. It did and it's clearly marked on the planet said yeah pretty corner in the middle of the tree. Yeah and that frankly that could change the location by a couple of inches. It did I believe and I think it was, you know, I tried to run a string straight with the laser and then go on the other side of the tree and take the laser and shoot it again. And I was off. But the building hadn't grown any bigger since day one. Okay, those are all the questions I have. I think everything that I need is in the record. I will tell you I do plan to approve it. Thank you, ma'am. But the approval won't be final until you get the written decision and order from me actually the office of the council board's office will actually send it to you when it's drafted, okay? I just need to get you my breath. Okay, so. Thank you. Yeah, and under the rules, we have 30 days to issue the decision in order. I do my best to get those out before the 30 days, but sometimes I'm not as prompt as I like to be with myself. But yeah, I think this is much is very, it's almost like a ministerial. I must look at this like a ministerial change. In other words, there was basically a mistake in the original. I know it's going to sound corny, but if everybody's properties, the little this, the little that, the little that, why you even have books, why you even have records. I work off a set of plans if I decide to build a however, you know, three each this way, what good are the plans? So I understand why you're making me do this. And I thank you for approving it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so with that we will end the hearing and close record. Right? And you'll be hearing from the office. Thank you so much, ma'am. Yep. Have a good day.