[♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ and and you I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. you music . and and and you and and and and . and and and and and and you and and you . . you and and and and and you you you you you Good evening and welcome to a regular meeting of the Bokeh Riton City Council. It is Tuesday, March 18, 2025. The time is 6 p.m. and our first item of business is the invocation, which I will ask Deputy Mayor Drucker to deliver, please. Thank you. Good evening. Tonight we come together again to do the good work of the people. Those of us sitting up here always challenge on how to attain positive outcomes that are for the greater good of our community and that our purpose is driven by our common goals in the end. I am grateful for the colleagues I get to work with and engage with. The entire city staff who's been working really, really hard the last few months, our first responders, our residents and all of those who make Booker Return the best city to live, work and play. My hope is that we continue to lead with imagination, innovation and vision so that we can continue to change the status quo as strong leaders when we are challenged with opportunities. Let's remember that leadership is about listening, connecting, it's about adaptability, and resilience, it's about the power of love and not the love of power. And lastly, since it is Florida Bike Month, I want to leave you with a few words of Albert Einstein. Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving forward. So together, let's keep moving our community forward because the best is yet to come. Thank you. Thank you, and I'll everyone, please rise and join in the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Missed in as we please call the roll mayor singer here deputy mayor drucker here councilmember Naclas here councilmember Thompson Thankfully be you. Thank you. Councilmember Wicter. Here. All present. Thank you. Do we have any amendments to the agenda? No amendments this evening. Thank you. Then the next item on the agenda is review of the minutes. We have the workshop meeting of February 24th and the regular meeting of February 25th, 2025. Are there any corrections or additions? I move a dots into the minutes. Thank you. Second. Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Any further discussion? Then all those in Vroomvroom please say aye. Aye. The minutes are approved. So I move a dots into the minutes. Thank you. Second. Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Any further discussion? Then all those in Vibhru please say aye. Aye. The minutes are approved. We have no proclamations or presentations today, so we'll turn to board appointments. And the first board for which we're seeking applicants tonight is the Community Advisory Panel. Are there any applicants for this board present? The Community Advisory Panel. Yes, please come forward. Come to the lectern, please. Give your name and address and you'll live up to three minutes to tell us why you want to serve. Good evening. My name is Victor Rodriguez. I'm an architect. And my name is... I'm sorry. Now the Community Parents Board, the Community Advisory Panel. You'll be next Mr. Rodriguez. We appreciate you being here. Anyone for the CAP community advisory panel? Ms. Barone, Mr. Feist, Ms. Morgan, Mr. Reed. Any of you present? Okay, if there are no other applicants for the community advisory panel, it's unusual that we can come back to it maybe because I have a feeling that some might come. Why don't we just table that for a moment because we know community appearance panel is here in case it was a traffic type. So Mr. Rodriguez, if you'll come forward now please. Good evening again. Victor Rodriguez, architect, my address is 21-21 North Ocean Boulevard, I'm not a permanent, not a 90. Yes, my intention is, moved to Bocca from Miami five years ago and I really enjoyed how beautiful and how organized the city is. With my experience as an architect participating in hearings for projects in different cities, municipalities in Miami Beach, Coral Gables, Doral, City of Miami. And so I came to understand the process of keeping, how to keep the city beautiful and clean. I really appreciate what the authorities are doing here in Bocca. And I feel that I can bring something to the community by participating in keeping up the city as it is, beautiful, clean and reviewing projects. So that's what I probably will not be doing, reviewing the applications for different aspects of construction and design. I believe my expertise will allow to keep the city as beautiful as it is. All right, council members, any questions? All right, Well, thank you for your willingness to serve. We have one vacancy, one applicant. I'd say it's looking pretty good. Council members, what's your pleasure? Mayor Sanger. Yes. I would like to appoint Victor Rodriguez to the community appearance board. Very well. Is there a second? Second. All right, thank you. All those in favor, please say aye. All right. Congratulations and thank you. Thank you. All right. We'll turn to the General Employees Pension Board. Any applicants present, Mr. Sirica? Really? Any applicants for the General Employees Pension Board? Mr. Timberly came forward yesterday as Mr. Sirica with us. He's unavailable to interview. He's unavailable, but he wants you to be reconsidered as an incumbent. So, Councilmembers, we have two vacancies to incommence applying. What's your pleasure? with us. He's unavailable to interview. He's not available but he wants you to be reconsidered as an incumbent. So council members we have two vacancies to incommence applying what's your pleasure. Mayor I move that we appoint Lewis Sirica and Steven Semberlake to the General Police Pension Board. Second by Mr. Wrigor any further discussion? Then all those in favor please say aye. Aye. They are appointed. Great. We'll now turn to the permitting and construction review board. We are still looking for a structural engineer for this board. If anyone in the audience knows the structural engineer wants to serve We would appreciate their service. We'll turn to the planning and zoning board I know we'd one applicant yesterday or no actually he didn't come forward. I'm an applicant's present Please come forward about there you both are so Hi Morgan Hi, Morgan, 48-01 Northwest Fifth Lane, Bokertone. Good evening, Mayor Singer and honorary council members. My wife and three sons, myself, are blessed to have moved from New Jersey to Bokertone four years ago, a place that we now lovingly call home. It's clear to me that to be able to provide such a safe, clean and vibrant city is something that does not happen on its own. That's clear. Boca Raton is a vibrant and growing city at almost 100,000 residents and in order to continue to create a Boca Raton that is vibrant and sustainable as a city, not only for ourselves, but for our children and grandchildren and the next generations that responsibility obviously rests with those that not only served in elected positions such as yourselves, but those that volunteer for lay leader positions to provide that for the general population as well. And I know that bulker tone will obviously continue to grow as the great city that it is and the great name that it has. I believe in growth, I believe in development within the structures and parameters set by city codes in order to provide infrastructures that are needed to continue such growth. I understand the need for us to create opportunities in both the private as well as the industrial sector in order to continue to sustain the growth that Boca Ratona is experiencing. I firmly believe that citizens should offer to give back to the city that they live in. That's why I was excited to be appointed earlier this year to serve on the Boca Ratona Affordable Housing Committee by the City Council. And I believe I served that position well in what I was asked to do. Serving on that board highlighted the fact that as we continue to grow as a city, we obviously need to ensure the right infrastructure opportunity in place for all aspects and sectors of the city for both affordable aspect as well as just the regular general business, private sector, etc. In order to create that city that can continue to thrive for our children and grandchildren. I therefore am applying this evening to serve on the planning and zoning board and I hopefully will be able to receive that opportunity from you. Thank you, Mr. Morgan and Council Members. Any questions? All right. Thank you. Mr. Dorter, please. Tim Dornellaser, 136th, Mohican Circle. Mayor Councilmembers, thank you very much for the opportunity that I've had to serve the City of Boca Raton the last few years on the planning and zoning board. I've really enjoyed the time there and the ability to shape the City Booker Tone and its future. Here looking to hopefully be reappointed and continue to shape the future of the City Booker, a city that I've grown up in and lived in now for 47 years. I know with the next few years the downtown development district may change and I think some of those orders are coming up to be redone. I'd love to be a big part of that in the future and continue to shake the town that I've lived in my whole life. Thank you. Thank you, council members. Any questions? All right, thank you. Thank you. Thank you both for your application, so we have two vacancies, two applicants, Council My boss, my boss, my boss, my boss, my boss, my boss, my boss, my boss, my boss Second thank you. We'll give that to mr. Rucker, but we have a third there any all those in favor please say aye Aye and you are appointed. Thank you And we'll now turn to the police and firefighters retirement system. We had both of our applicants interview yesterday to vacancies, to applicants, council members. Do I hear a motion? You do, Mayor, I would like to appoint Mr. Wilhaf and Mr. Flynn to this board. Second. Very good. Any further discussion? All those in favor please say aye. Aye. and they are appointed, will now turn back to the Community Advisory Panel. There are an applicants for this board present, including Ms. Barone, Mr. Feist, Ms. Morgan, Mr. Reed, anyone here? All right, then councilmembers, we have three vacancies. Do I hear any motions? Mr. Thompson. Mayor, I'd like to appoint Mr. Christie-Eakis, Mr. Jaffy, and Mr. Soto to the Community Advisory Council. Okay, that's a second. I'll put in some names and nominations then. I've been anyone else, Mr. Wiggler. I saw you, I'm sorry, it was Christie-Akis, Soto, and the third Jaffee. Okay. Anyone else? I'll nominate Mr. Reed. Any other nominations? Okay. So when the clerk calls your name, please vote for three applicants. Trucker? on the listakis. Jacky. Nakhlas. Christakis. Read and Soto. Thompson. Christakis. Jaffee. Soto. Wicked. Christakis. Jaffee, so do. Singer. Christakis, read, so do. In the voting, Christakis, Jaffee and So do each receive five votes to skip to the chase. Correct? No, I think it was Crest Stacus and Soto with five. Mr. Jaffee with three. Mr. Jaffee with three and Mr. Reed with four. Crest Stacus, Jaffee and Soto are appointed to the Community Advisory Panel. Very well. Well, that concludes our board appointments. And we appreciate everyone who's applied. As I said often, I did not get to serve I'm the first board for which I applied, but we appreciate the interest and hope there's more opportunities for you to stay involved. We will now turn to our next agenda item, which is responses to workshop information request. I don't believe we had any. No. Very well. Now we'll turn to the consent agenda. Would any council member wish to remove any item from the consent agenda? We're only speaking about the consent agenda now. Would any member of the public wish to comment on only the consent agenda? And seeing no one come forward, we'll close the time for public comment on the consent agenda. We'll entertain a motion to adopt the consent agenda as presented. So moved. Thank you all for that to Ms. Nackless on the motion. Seconded Mr. Bigger, any further discussion? Oh, Mr. Slausburg. Did we discussing the photo enforcement? That is a later item I believe. If I'm guessing I think I know why you're here that is not on the consent agenda. Okay, well, that is it. Item 12c. So with that now, if you'll call the roll please miss it. Sit. Waiter. Yes. Thompson. Yes. Singer. Yes. Naclus. Yes. Drucker. Yes. Motion passes five votes to zero. Very well. We'll now proceed with our next agenda item which is resolutions in other business and we have the item of the government campus partnership opportunity so we'll first turn to staff and And I believeBRE for reports. Mr. Brown. Thanks, Mary-Missu-Lucastic Deputy City Manager, we're given an update on where we are in the process of the campus redevelopment partnership opportunity. Thank you, Mr. Brown. Good evening, Mayor and Council, Andy Lucassek, your deputy city manager. So I'm going to spend a couple of minutes talking about our interim agreement. So we talked a little bit about that yesterday. And as you'll recall, the interim agreement is essentially a document that's establishing the framework for our relationship working with the TerraFrisbee group, who is the team that you selected to work on the downtown campus redevelopment project. And talk a little bit about how that framework is going to guide us as we start developing a master plan and working towards master partnership agreement with TerraForsbee. Housekeeping before I get into any details, you have a revised agreement and timeline in front of you. The substance of the activities in the agreement aren't changing. The only thing that is changing is are some of the milestone dates that are included in a timeline that are also attached to the agreement. Terrafras B had revisited some of their timelines felt that they could be a little more aggressive in terms of their completion of tasks to get us to a final master plan and master partnership agreement. So we work together to revise those milestone dates for you, okay? So the contents of the agreement other than the timelines haven't changed at all. So let me touch on just a couple of things as it relates to the agreement. So the intention of the agreement is get us to a master partnership agreement and master plan for the development of the downtown campus. Two main components of the process that I'll get us there. One is the due diligence phase. So the due diligence phase takes us from March 28th through August 25th. And that 150 day time frame gives us the opportunity us being city staff and CBRE are consultants to work with Terraforsbee and their consultants on a number of analyses and studies. Predominantly to work on things like geotechnical work, surveys, they're typical with any development project, mobility and traffic analysis, infrastructure capacity, the analysis of infrastructure capacity, as well as traditional site planning. So that time gives us the opportunity to work on all those studies and all of those activities with CBRE and TerraVirisbee. We'll be establishing work groups. We'll be working collaboratively with our mutual consultants to try to get us to a point where we're informing the master, interim master plan, which I'll talk about in a second. All the way through that process, we'll have heavy community engagement. In fact, I'll point your attention to one of the first critical milestone dates, which is May 12th. And May 12th is a date where Terraforsby is going to be submitting their interim master plan. Before they get to that interim master plan, the agreement talks about having a design charat so there will be some pretty heavy public engagement before they even get to that May 12th, a submittal to staff and to you. The next major date that I wanted to talk about is the week of June 9th. Probably would be your June 10th regular meeting. That's a date where you'll actually consider a proof of the interim master plan. And that'll really guide and inform the process going forward. So it'll be an opportunity for staff and Tara Frisbee to check with the City Council on the content of the plan, see if we're going in the right direction. Throughout the rest of the due diligence period, there's lots of studies, lots of analysis. That gets us to the point in September, early September, so September 3rd, after the due diligence period, where they'll submit an interim report and refine interim master plan. So all of that work that's being done in those 150 days plus a little bit of time will help inform that interim report and the master plan. That document, that study will be built upon to ultimately inform the master partnership agreement and a final master plan, which will be considered by the council, probably at your meeting on October 28th. During that period of time, that we're calling the finalization period, so the period between the end of the due diligence period and the time where you actually consider, consider an agreement.fris B will be responding to any comments that we have, any observations we have, continuing to doing outreach for the public. So the the Sharet that I mentioned is just A-stop. It's something that has to happen quickly but there will be engagement throughout the process and we'll continue to finalize the the master partnership agreement as well as working on all of the planning activities established the regulatory framework. So any complex changes, any land use changes, any LDRs, all of that will happen and that all that will be wrapped up in that finalization period. Obviously a lot of work has to happen before them but that's that period of time between the end of due diligence and time that you're considering agreement will be the finalization of all of that work. So I'll mention two things just to highlight real quick. Again, that regulatory framework process is gonna happen throughout this entire process and community input is going to be encouraged and pursued throughout the whole process as well. So there are some minimum standards that we want to achieve, but we've been working with tariffers quite well over the course of the past couple of weeks as we've been developing the agreement. And I know that they're very, very interested in continuing to get public input so that we can get the best plan that we can for the community. Those are the details that I have for you. I'm here to answer any questions that you might have about the agreement or the process. Council members, any questions? All right, if there are no questions, do we have a separate report from CBRE or they're just available to answer questions? They're here to answer questions as well. There are any questions. Very good. Council members, I'm going to suggest since we have normally have at all these meetings we've been noticing report and public comment, but immediately after this we have a resolution for the interim agreement at 42, 22, 22, 22, 22, 22, resolution 42-2025. I'm going to suggest we read the title of the resolution, open up that discussion, then of all the public comment at one time since some of the cards want to talk about both. It's just one time. So if there's no objection, we'll do that. Some miscidance. Please read the title of resolution 42-2025. Resolution 42-2025. A resolution of the city of Boquerayton, Florida authorizing the city manager to execute an interim agreement with Boquerayton City Center LLC Tara Frisbee for the downtown campus project providing for severability providing for a pillar providing effective date. Thank you And Mr. Lucassek basically told us what was in it and the high points. Is there anything else we want to add Mr. Brown on this discussion? No, his staff's recommending approval. All right, very well. All right, thank you. Well, with that, we'll open up the public hearing on this matter. I have a number of cards, and then anyone also wishes to speak. You can come forward after what the cards are called. These give your name and address. You may be able to three minutes. First, three cards are from Daniel Cle 63, 20 Boca Delmar Drive. Boca Delmar, thank you. Yes. I am very familiar with the Boca Raton, Tennis Center. I know a lot of the ladies that play there and the children that play there. And I looked at the architectural plans of the developer on February 11th and I only saw, and I could be wrong, just four quart, racquet quarts that they put into these original plans in February. Now, if, and they also stated they were going to be up to 8,000 people living in this development between the apartments, the condos, and even more from the hotel. So those four courts would probably just not even be enough for the thousands of people who were going to live in that development. The question is that the Boca Raton Tennis Center has been existing since the mid-60s and probably operated full time in the 70s and it's almost like a fixture here in the city of Patterson. I'm here helping Judy Morrow, who's spent a lot of time working on this, and she has spoken to hundreds of residents here in the city of Boca Raton, and a lot of people are confused because they haven't heard about the project in detail. I always wondered, and I know that the wildflower property was put on the ballot at one time and the city residents rejected that from being developed and now it's a park. But the item here is that the softball people, the players, they were, I understand, given a commitment for new softball fields. I don't know if that's the case. However, the tennis, the Boker-Retone tennis center has not been told whether or not it's going to be torn down and it should not be torn down. And if it is torn down, I think that the working ladies and the children and some of the men who play there, they deserve a new tennis center. I mean, the city of Boca Raton, I believe probably, and I could be wrong, has collected more property taxes in the last few years than in the history of Boca Raton on a per annual basis. So I don't believe there's a shortage of money. There's $10 million that the developer has promised. I know that goes for a pedestrian bridge, but however, maybe some of that money could be used for a new tennis center. I read that Mr. Frisbee, David Frisbee, is said in regard to this project that the development should work to put people first. Now I don't believe that the development should be given a higher peg on the totem pole than the tennis center that's been here so many years. So I'm asking the city and council to go over the- Would you please conclude? Yes. I don't know if the developers are planning to put more clay tennis courts in their original, it could be amended the architectural plans or the city could give a commitment to the people about a new tenor center in the city of Boca Raton. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Neighbors, we're happy to have you here. Before you speak, come on up. I'll just say, we normally ask people to refrain from applause. I've always joked that if you apply for one person or another person doesn't get applause, they might have their feelings hurt. But here, there is a very good reason. It cut into Mr. Clemens' time. I gave him a little extra. So please just hold your applause. We understand there's a lot of feelings and we're happy to hear you, but it will go faster and everyone will get their time if you hold the applause. Thank you. Ms. Rambo. Hi, Monique Rambo, 99th Southeast Meisner Boulevard. I'm here today to advocate for increased traffic enforcement in downtown Boka. Myzner, Palmetto, Camino Rial, Federal A1A, and it goes on and on. It's a huge problem and ongoing problem. The last couple of weeks we have seen increased enforcement and thank you Ms. Nakhlas for your support in that. When speaking to the police last Friday night and via email and phone calls, they are fully aware of the issue and we appreciate everything they're doing to help but we need to keep the focus on enforcement and get control of the situation. We have racing cars, speeding, running red lights, running stop signs, running through crosswalks, that making illegal turns all day long, distracted on their cell phones, texting, aggressive driving. We have vehicles with modified mufflers that are against the law in Florida and create a huge disturbance for anybody living down there all day long. We have constant hawking horns at the intersection of Meisner and Palmetto from distracted and aggressive drivers. With regards to the government campus, I'm concerned and I don't understand how we can add 1,129 residential units, 150 room hotel, office space, retail restaurant, without getting control of the existing problem in downtown. It's dangerous to be a pedestrian. It's dangerous to ride a bike. So we are, I am asking for the project to be scaled down and we are pleading for a significant increase in traffic enforcement in downtown. This is a quality of life issue for anybody that lives, walks, goes to restaurants in downtown Boca. Thank you. Ms. Ward, or excuse me, Mr. Ward, and a reward. Mr. Wade. Wade. Oh, excuse me. I didn't see the dot. I still don't, but I thank you, Mr. Wade. Thank you for allowing me to speak. I'm here to reiterate what the First Gentleman said. And please give your name and address. Andrew Wade, 274 North East 6th Court. I'm actually an investment banker and specialized in public finance. So I did a lot of these projects across the southeast. I'm here to reiterate what the first gentleman said about the tennis courts. You have a lot of ladies that play tennis in leagues on Fridays. The courts are packed. You're taking 10 courts replacing them with four, which is defies logic. The amount of play on those courts is very significant those courts are packed in the evenings Saturdays Sunday for the four hours at the or the five hours that the courts are open I'd like the city to address the plan to replace those courts at least the 10 courts I think there's You know as know, as the taxpayers, as Edelma said, that place has been here since the 1970s, 60s and operating since the 70s and it's there's not any more courts on the east side. Okay, you have to go to Boca Swim in Rackett, which is in the center of Boca, 20-minute drive, and you have a lot of residents to live over here. So I think that's a disservice to the taxpayers. I think that that needs to be addressed, and needs to be a solid plan to replace that along with the softball fields. Because as elected officials, these are the people that you represent. These are the people that you're supposed to work for. And putting a two ten story apartment complexes on city property for a nine nine year ground lease is a bit puzzling to me. I understand that the lease, that the revenue from the lease will support a bond issue to build the city hall which I understand that there needs to be revamping for city hall, but this city carries a AAA rating. Okay, it's one of the few cities in the state of Florida, the first city that ever was rated AAA by all free rating agencies. Moody's, S&P, and Fitch. So financially, this city's doing very, very well. So I'm just curious as to the logic for putting apartment complexes on city property with a 99 year lease. Because I know the city has the ability to issue the debt without additional revenue to support a new city hall and new government complex as well as new softball fields and new tennis courts. I know that the tennis courts aren't revenue producers or the softball fields but it is just a bit puzzling to me. I like that to be addressed at some point in the next council meetings. Thank you. I'm noticing a theme and we're going to hear all the comments. Normally we wait until the end of the public comment. This is turning into the end of each item. But I wanted to pause now because Mr. Brown talked about some of these issues, at least from the first three speakers yesterday. He spoke about our recreation efforts and spoke about our speeding enforcement. I thought that just might be helpful to jump in right now before we call our next. Thank you, Mayor. In reverse order, we have added a traffic officer for enforcement in the downtown, presently, using current funds and it's our intention to include in next year's budget for the downtown an additional officer For traffic enforcement strictly in the downtown when I say traffic enforcement I also mean pedestrian safety enforcement not just vehicles With regard to the recreation, it is the city's clear intention to replace the 10 courts that are downtown with 10 courts. The four courts that are being offered in the plan would be supplemental. We will have a plan. I cannot tell you the location yet, but we will have a plan to replace the courts that are downtown. Some of them may, they will be on the east side of town, but they may be a bit farther north than they are now. That's the best I can offer at the moment, but we are clearly committed to recreation. All the amenities that are at the downtown campus will be replaced, including the skate park. Thank think, by the way, you had the stat yesterday. I don't know if you have it now. I think it was just over the last weekend there were an additional 70-some-odd citations. 76 citations in four days last week. In just the downtown. In just downtown. Very good. So we are working on that. All right. Cheryl Fisher, Jason Espizito and Margo Marjeet Parkinson. And if you don't want to speak because you think someone else did, you could just wave. Jason Fisher, excuse me, Cheryl Fisher, Jason Esposito, Marjeet Parkinson. Come forward please. Whoever's closest, if you're one of the three, you can come on up. Thanks. Hi, name is Margaret Parkinson. I'm at 1361 Southwest 21st Street. I've been a resident of Boca since 2000. Yeah, that's right, 2000. So 25 years and I am a tennis player, so I guess I have some skin in the game in this. I was wondering if when you are going to do your survey of the part, the traffic situation and things like that that will be put into this information. If that is including the, there's so many properties already in the plannings. All the, there's at least two to three, ten story buildings being in the plans on Palmetto Park Road. There's the large building that is being in the plans at Palmetto and A1A. You have the Mandarin Oriental that is currently under construction across from the publics. And as my understanding, there's going to be a change to the office depot center that was the World Headquarters that half of that is going to become another Myzner. So we're talking about thousands of people coming into the city with these apartments that you're building before we even begin to build these ones you're talking about for the new land use. And you're promoting a place to live, work, and play. And in my opinion, the play has kind of been taken out of that. I understand that you have proposed, and well, not even proposed them yet, but thought that the skate park and the softball fields and the tennis courts will be in a different area, but that is all drive time. Like I live on the east side, I could ride my bike to the tennis center or walk and that is no longer an issue for me. So that will be an issue for me. I'll be driving and many of the people that I play with are able to walk the tennis center. And now you're talking about not having any recreation, any longer downtown boca. So now it's no longer playing in downtown, but we're going to have to travel to do our play. And I just want that to be addressed. I think that the four courts that you're talking about putting on top of build, like on top of restaurants or whatever. I don't know if you've ever talked to tennis players about that but it seems like they're not being put into the the piece of the puzzle for that because first of all I would assume they'd have to be hard courts because it's very hard to maintain clay courts. That means they're going to be a lot harder. They're a lot harder on people's, like older people's, including myself's knees and joints. And you're going to be separating them. So no longer would you be able to have like a fun round robin-stip style, which a lot of people play in, and things like that because now you're separated. You're not even like going to be in group. You're gonna be in all different buildings. And I don't think that that's come into the thought. And I just think that some of this planning hasn't really thought of the play aspect. And we're just about making money on this or something. I'm not sure what that purpose is. So I just really hope that the play is really considered. Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker please. Hello. My name is Cheryl Fisher. I'm at 592 Northwest 7th Street. And I'm speaking on behalf of probably a lot of East Boca residents and community that, well, we would like to vote on the recreation because everybody that I've spoken to, and there's a lot of people that even don't even know about this, that they want recreation downtown. They don't want to have to drive to it. And if we could vote on it, then that would speak on behalf of the community. And I think things would change, then it would keep it in the same location. And I'm in agreement with all of the tennis courts and all the recreation, the skate parks. And I want to speak on behalf of the basketball courts as well, because there are people that live east-boke in the same location of where it is now that don't go to sports where you have to pay for it. So they need a place where they don't have to pay. So we have to consider everyone in our city who is in a different socioeconomic place and provide it for them as well. So we need a basketball court. And I just wanted to say also when you all, when this all happens, when this is all rebuilt, that there always is one that's going to be there. So one would have to be built before the old one is taken down. We need a place to go. We need a place to play that people that can't afford need a place because it is important. It is just as important mentally and physically to have recreation. Thank you. Thank you. Jason Esposito, Judy Moro and Lucas Ross, if you'd care to line up. Also, anyone in the back, we do have plenty of chairs in the first row if anyone wants to be seated. Jason Esposito, 7779 Northwest 6th Drive. I live not too far from Cheryl. I didn't even know she was going to be here so I'm happy to see she's here. This is the first I've heard of this downtown plan and I live half a mile from where you're going to be building. Why do we need affordable housing? Why do we need any more housing? We already have a traffic problem. I don't have to hire a fancy company to tell me that there's a traffic problem. Bright line, if Bright line's coming through and you're just coming back from the beach or the boat ramp, which I don't know if I'll be able to get to the boat ramp anymore, it looks like you're gonna shut down the road. It makes no sense to me. We do not need any more housing downtown. We don't need really any more shops. We don't need any more restaurants. Maybe when I'm 90 and I want to walk, I will appreciate it. But right now with kids, those fields you're taking away, we walk too. That's when my kids learned how to play baseball, your son plays baseball. I also looked online, not many of you live east. You guys all live west. So ease for you is a place to go and party or say show off, look what I did. For me, I live there. I like living in a small town. I had the option of moving to Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach. I could have chose any of those cities. I chose East Boca because it's small. I could ride my bike to the beach. I could jog to the beach. You used to be able to get through town. You can't anymore ever since the bright line station showed up. You can't. It's sometimes you sit there for 10 minutes waiting on one light and I'm the only corner in line. It's ridiculous. That's my two cents. I think you're wasting time and money. I feel like it was shoved down our throats and I think you should take it off money. I feel like it was shoved down our throats. And I think you should take it off the books and just do it the gentleman who handles fine-handsings and suggests it. Thank you. Applause. Ms. Morrell. Judy Morrell. My name is Judy Morrow, 1305 Northeast Fifth Avenue. I had a beautiful morning this morning. What happened was I got to talk to Inky Fisher. She's 90 years old. Her and I talked for one hour and 43 minutes. She's the one that the Boca Raton Tennis Center. We have a purple sign that says an honor of Inquis Fisher teaching pro from 1963 to year 2000. She worked with Jim Rutherford, who a lot of, excuse my pronunciation, was the first city manager, George Brown, before George Brown. And she, and he had vision of Boca Raton having lots of parks. And Inki told me today that when she first started in 1963, they only had two tennis courts. Then the city said she was doing such a good job and Jim had visions of more recreation and more parks and then they built four tennis courts at Boca Raton Tennis Center. She could have 30 children in her class learning tennis. She could teach 100 adults on all ten courts or nine courts at that time. She said it was the best job she ever had. I asked her nicely if she'd like to come tonight, she's 90 years old. If it was during the day she would come. A few months ago she came to one of the day meetings and I asked her, I said, what do you think about them knocking down Boca Raton tenor center and she said that would be a shame because it was the best years of her life and they used to have 100 children come out in the 60s and the 70s for her tennis classes and Burger King, she said, Duncan Donuts and and Guffin and Flanagan's used to donate 100 cups and 100 goody bags and the children used to love learning and playing tennis there. So in her honor I would love to keep it downtown. And also when the city, George Brown and Mayor Scott Singer talk about maybe moving the tennis courts to Boca Tica, I've already found out that the residents around there do not want the tennis night lights. So how can you build tennis courts if the people already are objecting to the lights at night? And right now, Boca Raton-Tennis Center is not being maintained because you took our director, gave us a new director, and he's put in requests for the large light number two and six to be fixed. Could we please conclude? My, so please, please, please keep Boca Raton Tenisoner downtown at 271 Boca Raton Boulevard. Thank you. Lucas Ross. Hi, everyone. Lucas Ross, 1235 Northwest 14th Street. Thank you for the time. So this time is on behalf of at least 20 direct contacts in my neighborhood. All of them did not know about this project. I'll let them know what is and know them in green. So a little bit of background. Native South Florida. I've lived here since 2005, graduated electrical engineering, moved in the aerospace industry. I've been working in that, tried around the world and I like to come back to Boka, not for a lot of oil, not Miami. A family of four. And I actually like to relay my two sons who use escape park in the fields are asking it not to be torn up and built on top of. So yeah, project is immense. 30 acres, mostly publicly owned land. It needs a vote. It needs something more than a lot. Like there's just so many people that do not know about this and the ones again again I talked to are not for it. So these are some reset here. Communication. So back to mailers out to everyone, emails, and what needs to know about something this large. This is back to a vote. That's what basically I hear feedback from everyone I've talked talked to Of course, yeah, it's very profitable to develop this type of land, but that's not what everyone wants and the city is already profitable so We you know, it's not necessary to turn over this type of land to developers to make it additionally profitable when The taxpayers have already paid in uses land. So yeah, moving the facilities, that's not going to work. The people who use it downtown, it's again, I've mentioned before, it's like taking central park and building on top of that. Yeah, you can do it, be very profitable, but that's not what the community wants. There are, there's a lot of other commercial real estate in the area that can be developed and is happening. There's ways to connect that does not need to be downtown on top of the park and rec land that has been there. So, yet we cannot go back. Once this is turned over, it's going to be built on and we're going to lose this land. So, the feedback getting and myself is it should go to a vote we should reset we think about this one thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak on the downtown campus opportunity or resolution 42 2025 if you want to come up please do give your name and You'll vote up to three minutes. Hello, thank you for letting me speak. My name is Patty Derbysche. I live at 420, North East 10th Therese, Boko Raton, Florida. I have been observing this city for a long time. And one of the things that always happens is, first all I do not think You should be allowed to build on our property At all it is our property and what I observe in the past is that you let one person do it or one company do it And I don't know how many lawsuits you have right now against you the next person comes in and says well you let them do it or one company do it. And I don't know how many lawsuits you have right now against you. The next person comes in and says, well, you let them do it. Now, are we going to lose? Sam Warren, when I came here, we were known as cities of parks. It's not happening anymore. And granted, I know the developers would love nothing more than to get every golf course, every park because they can build bigger things. It is selfish about giving that property our property to businesses. I'm totally against it and I hope you do put this to a vote because it's our right at citizens to vote on this without you making plans or approving plans. Thank you for your time. Anyone else on resolution 42 2025? Why don't you take a seat in the first row ma'am. There's plenty of seats that we're going to go back in. Sorry. I am Angela Maisie at Mivett 242 North West 64th Street in Boca Raton. I'm interested in speaking on this resolution because I am not opposed to updating some of our buildings. they did a really... the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of which is east as is ours. But at the same time, I don't feel support for putting residences there as that is a public property. I do everything in Bokeh. I don't feel support for putting residences there as that is a public property. I do everything in Boka. I work in Boka at FAU. I serve, go and serve on the different committees to volunteer in Boka and some very embedded in the city. And I would like to see our city grow in proportion to what the residents that are already here I'm going to add a little bit of the effect on the screen. I'm going to add a little bit of the effect on the screen. I'm going to add a little bit of the effect on the screen. I'm going to add a little bit of the effect on the screen. I'm going to add a little bit of the effect on the screen. I'm going to add a little grow in proportion to what the residents that are already here need but not overdeveloped into areas where it's so congested that we can't have room to get around to appreciate each other to have these outlets for people to recreate that maybe not everyone is able to travel as some have mentioned. You know, you've done a lot of good work with some of the parks in the area in conjunction with beaches and parks. We just had my daughter's birthday party at the James A. Rutherford Park and it was fantastic. The remodeling that was done there and you I know that we are a good better Boca and we want to stay that way so thank you for consideration of my comment. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak? Yes I know. Hi Mayor Singer and Councilman my name is Ricky Black. I live in Forest Hills Lane in Boca. I'm here to talk a little bit about the tennis center Center. I'm a former employee of the Tennis Center and have been a player at the Tennis Center for about 20 years now. I think the project that you guys are looking to do is a little bit too crazy. I think listening to the people talk about the infrastructure that we currently have issues with traffic,'s only going to get worse with this project moving forward. I think we have a lot of restaurants that are empty a lot of apartments that are empty and to continue to build It's just kind of foolish My comment with the tennis center. I'm glad to hear that you guys want to build ten more courts somewhere else, but do that before you destroy the courts that we currently have and play on on a daily basis. You can go there any, you can go there. They can clap all they want because I think the majority of people here agree with me. One of the things that we're very concerned about right now is a timeline for when the courts are coming down. Is it this year? Is it next year? Is it five years from now? Even while I was an employee at the tennis courts four years ago, there was rumors of the courts coming down. That is very important to the girls that I have on my team and the people that play their on a regular basis. I's, I don't know if you guys can address that, but that's something that's very, very important is how soon are they closing? How soon are we getting new in that way? Again, please, Judy said we are begging to keep those courts and keeping the recreation here in East Bca. There is nothing else in the area. Four courts on 18th Street, Patrick has all the hard courts. Swimming racket is already overcrowded. We need to keep Boca return 10th center intact where it is and begging you guys. Please give us a timeline to keep our courts. They're at least for another couple of years and we'll take new ones down the road but don't take what we have right now away. Thank you for your time. Anyone else wishing you speak on, yes? Hi, Patricia Spanella, 316 Northeast, 25th Street and I've been a resident in Boquerton for more than 50 years and when it came, it was really known as a Quaint Town and the idea that there wasn't so much overgrowth and a more, actually a more editorial on building was great. I mean, that's what gave Boquetown the value. But in time, everybody understands things must change. You need a new community center, new police center, whatever, you know, find that sounds all good. But the reason for the apartment buildings and the condos, I was told that that offsets the revenue offsets the construction. But can the residents have some kind of idea where all the revenue is going that's coming from all the building that went on on Federal Highway and all the proposed stuff. I mean I even hear the IBM campus is supposed to be a 15-minute city. I mean it's I don't really know who likes to live next door to their boss and see them all the time you know so you can live and work in the same place but you, the changing the single family zoning from where that church is off 12th Street to turn into a multifamily, it just is like too much. I don't think the residents of Boca are aware of what's proposed. I don't think we've had any input until it's almost down the road of what's already going on and hopefully not a done deal. But that, you know, it's done with some type of compromise with the benefit of the bulk return residents in mind. My input, you know, my thoughts, they keep it small and quite invaluable. No, you know, so thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, please. If you'd like to speak, why not, there are some rose seats in the first row. Why don't you just start moving there now, because it'll save everyone's time. Thank you. Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Alexandra Abelow. I live in 498 South, West, 12 terrorists. Boca Raton, Florida 3486. I just have a one question to you guys. Why are you sitting over there? You are elected by we, the people. I would like to ask the people if they agree with the proposals of this beautiful monster that you want to build again. You have built so many monsters on fellow highway and now another monster is coming on 12 and I don't think as I hear everybody else that do not agree. I don't know with the people do you agree with all the monsters coming up? No. We elected you guys. You have to respect the desire and what with the people need, not what you are getting bribes or money or whatever from the construct on people who give you the huge money. And that's what I do not agree because you listen to them but you don't listen to with the people. And I think that is a very, very disturbing because we give you the boat. We gave you the boat and you guys are going against our desire, our plans or living. I don't understand. What is the need for you guys to take away all these recreation from East Boka. Can you answer me one of you, Mr. Thompson? Can you answer me why? Zabola, we normally, we don't take questions in the middle. It's just good to pass. Okay. Whatever, whatever. Yeah, we are the people. We are here to listen to you. What is the need for another monster in the middle of East Bucca? I have my name at the stairs. So please. I'm happy to address your comment, but we're going to finish public comment first and then all of us will talk. But I will I owe you an answer and you will get one. Thank you. Thank you so much, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Singer, I saw you in the parade and I ask you, please I beg you, please do not build anymore. Here we are discussing things that they are not supposed to be. Could be a nice refurbishing the building beautiful, but do not disturb what it is originality. What is the originality of Wokaraton? Thank you so much. Anyone else wishing to speak? Yes. Is there anyone else wishes to speak? Could you please raise your hand because that way we could just get some seats in the front row? All right, thank you. Then come on up. We've got a couple seats missed in the first row. Thank you. Mine is real short. To build on her monster comment. Sorry, your name and address please. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm Heidi Clear at 1001 Northeast 4th Avenue. And to build on her monster comment is, it seems to be a pattern that when something of this magnitude is trying to be presented and pushed through it starts and it goes through the summer when most of our residents or a lot of our residents are gone and I see that same pattern here and it seems to me not as upfront as it would be if this was in the fall and I just want know, is there a reason why these monster projects go through the summer and get approval, agreement, approval, October, just before the season starts and everybody comes back. And that's the outrage people just don't know because they're not here six months out of the year. That's my little portion to add. Yes? I had about 20 seconds left. No, sir, you got to one bite, sorry. Okay, well it may be tabled the resolution tonight to the community. Sir, you had to the one bite, thank you. There was someone who, I'm sorry, someone woman from the back came up to the, yes, oh, I'm sorry, I way thank you Good evening my name is Nancy Beaver I live at 5.5.0 Southeast Myzner Boulevard here in Boquerotone I've lived in Boquerotone since 1972 my concern right now is I've and I'm sorry I just arrived I had something else I needed to be So this all may have been said. I find it very difficult to understand how five people, five people who are sitting at the deus, or dius this evening, are making a decision for the entire population of the city of Boca Raton. I find that very disturbing, that you're gonna sign on the dotted line and then talk to us about what you think we might want. We're telling you what we want. We need green space, we need athletic space, we need recreational space, our city is congested, it's already congested and you're going to add a hotel, condominiums, apartments and the little green space that you're going to give us is an insult. It's an insult to all of us. We've been using and enjoying the facilities we have. Downtown Boca Raton as far as I'm concerned is as much a community as Woodfield, as Boca Point, as Boca, as St. Andrews. This is our community. We need our recreational space. We have it. We have this fabulous piece of property that's sitting there that you could make into a central park, into a Boston Commons, into a something spectacular that everybody in downtown Bokeh can use. Then you get your bridge or whatever over to Meisner Park where we have a cultural center and amphitheatre, a museum, shops, restaurants. We don't need more of those. We need what we need right now. And I find it very disingenuous that the five of you are now coming to us and saying, this is what we sent out to the world, because this is what I heard. These are the development plans that came back. And of the five, this is the one that we think you're going to like the most. How about you say none of these are what the people in Boca would like the most? Let's just keep looking. Let's ask them first before you five decide what is best for us. Thank you very much. Anyone else wishing to speak on this item? Last call for public comment on Resolution 40 2025. Oh, are you coming up, ma'am? Good evening, my name is Shannon Otto. I live at 233 North East 31st Street, Boca Raton. It's so sad to hear all these comments and to realize how true they are. There's been many times that I've thought about how there's really no other place that I would really like to live. Boca is a beautiful place. Thousands of people come here from other places. Many people come from Miami to enjoy our beaches for a lotterdale to enjoy our beaches. Because Miami and for a lotterdale, I mean even Del Rey, you know, is it's becoming more and more populated the growth has gone up they have become they have become like a what do you call it concrete jungle you know and and we have beautiful parks we have a beautiful area downtown. You have built so much that is not even being used yet because it's still under construction. And I keep telling people my neighborhood and they agree. I can spin around and do a 360 in my neighborhood. And I don't see one, several story building. And I am so grateful for that. And where you live, many of you live, you can spend around, do a 360 in your neighborhood. And you don't see one, two, three, four, well, three or four story building either. And I just think it is so sad that you wanna turn us into a huge city where we'reed, where you want to make us walk, write a bicycle, a scooter, I don't know. We don't want that. We don't want to be more congested. We don't want more traffic. You already make us pay for parking and we live here. I mean, it's different to make other people pay for parking because they come down and they vacation, but we live here and you have increased that to us. We are the ones that pay the tax paying dollars. So please do not build. We don't need skyscrapers everywhere. We don't need them to keep going up downtown or in the midtown or anywhere. You have built so much. Let it be. Just let it be. And please respect the fact that you do live many of you do live in either gated communities or maybe further out west or whatever. And you're not you're not living east. You don't experience what we've experienced. My family has been here since the 70s. My father is a doctor, my mom is an attorney. We have spent a lot of time, a lot of money in this city. We pay taxes. We so much would appreciate if you would keep it, keep the building to a minimum, like we've all said, and allow us to enjoy the city that so many people come here and they do spend their money and they want to come here to vacation and let us continue to enjoy it so that we are not a fort Lauderdale or a Miami. Your time is concluded. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak on this matter? All right, last call for public comment. All right, we'll close the public comment and hearing on Resolution 42 2025. We'll have a chance to respond. Let me just inter, I want to get a motion on the floor because that's our procedure. Then we'll have discussion immediately. So who would like to move to adopt resolution 42? Thank you second. Second. Thank you. All right. Let's have some discussion first. I'm grateful that everyone came out. I'm sure my colleagues are too. Because it may surprise some of you, I understand some of you have very strong opinions. It might surprise you to know that a lot of people in a city of 103,000 roughly have various opinions and some people disagree with you. A lot of people are actually excited about the proposal before us even if you didn't hear them today. In fact, excuse me, folks, excuse me, sir. I didn't interrupt you, please don't interrupt me, thank you. You might be surprised, but it's true. And we are, let's just frame where we were, where we are, and where we're going. Where we were is, we've been discussing this matter for the other reason I'm grateful here is because there's a lot of misimpression out there, a lot of information. As much as we try as a city to get out accurate information and have for months and years, you know, we still hear what we didn't hear. We get out, we put this on newsletters, social media. There was an open forum and there will be more. And in back to what that's what I'm referring to, the one held in February, there were about 200 people downtown looking at the models, looking at the designs and I understand the feedback was quite positive. We've been discussing this as a primary goal for several years now, understanding that creating a whole of downtown would be greater than the sum of the parts. And that just having a city hall and community center didn't integrate with what we're trying to do in terms of taking advantage of multi modes of transportation, creating a vibrant area, connecting other parts of downtown that are isolated. One thing we're trying to do is do that. Where we are today, we are at the precipice of entering into an interim agreement. All it does is allow us to proceed with the first rank Proposer on designs that we gave a framework for for them to move forward. They're going to do due diligence. They're going to evaluate whether they make sense for them to go forward. We're going to evaluate too. They're going to work up some plans, they're going to have more public feedback and input, and I invite all of you to participate. I see representatives of the proposal here today. I know they're listening avidly, but nothing is said yet. We don't have a site plan. We don't have a master plan. This is a relatively still in the early stages, even though we've been discussing this concept for a long time. And where we go, it will take months and months and months to finalize. We will have public comment at every single meeting as we've been discussing this concept for a long time. And where we go, it will take months and months and months to finalize. We will have public comment at every single meeting as we've been doing since October. And so I'm sorry if some of you haven't heard about this before, we've tried our best through web, notices, emails, I've sent out newsletters. My colleagues have put us on social media. The city's noticed rapidly. And I think if there's an interim agreement here, now we have a proposal here, would want to invest more time and effort in getting the word out through other means of communication. And I invite you to be part of that process. I understand change is hard, but we have set a goal to try to create something a little bit more than a failing community center in City Hall understanding the needs of recreation and understanding that we can't please everyone, but we're going to do our best to try to factor in all of the comments and see what we're going. I want to give credit to staff because we've already you've heard Mr. Brown talk about what we're trying to do with just the tennis issue. We had softball come up as an issue. We've resolved that I think we're on the at least on the road to doing so along with along with the skate park and I know there are other concerns and I can't talk to you one on one from here. We've heard them. We will consider those as well as we can and we appreciate the feedback. So that was my comments. Anyone else want to jump in? Ms. Necklace. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And I just have a few comments. I just wanted to thank everyone for coming out tonight and you all found out about this somehow tonight. So there's varying ways, whether it was by word of mouth. But I wanted to give you because several of the comments were on communication and saying we didn't know about it. My friends don't know about it. My neighbors don't know about it. So I say it every meeting. So I want to say it again right now. And this is recorded. So you can go back to this meeting if you don't get it now. Most of you have phones right now. If you text alert bokeh, one word, two, three,'re having meetings, all different things. So that's one way. You can get the MyBoke app, which will also alert you to everything going on and give you links to the master plans and every other thing that you would like to know about the city. I am on next door. I see many of you on next door. Many of you who are here tonight. So I know you have technology. I know you're communicating either by phone or by computer. So our city's communications is also on next door. And they've put the meetings and the open houses and everything on next door as well. We all have social media. So I know I'm always putting things on social media about what we're doing. And so does the city. Has its own social media. And they're always alerting about all the different meetings and what's happening and links to everything that's going on and what we're doing. And then finally, if you just go on the city's website, which is myboka.us, again, you can find everything that we talk about, every single meeting, videos, past agendas, many past years. And you can go back to when this was first started talking about which was long before I was on council. Secondly, before I go through some of these other things, I want you to all remember that even though maybe we don't live all on the east side, I did live on the east side. I lived in Meister Park, I'm a daughter that lives in Bible conferences states. I've been here a long time. I'm your neighbor. I have worked here and paid taxes here and raised my children here just like you're doing. So I have all the same concerns that you have. So I am not going to make any decision that I wouldn't want to make for my own family as well. There was a remark about losing parks, Miss Derbysche, losing parks. We have 49 parks in the city. We're not losing parks. In fact, we opened up James A. Rutherford Park not too long ago again. And we're constantly looking for places to do parks. And they're very, very important to us. So we are definitely not losing parks. We are not taking bribes. So I know that has come up a lot also. So to throw around that very serious accusation without any kind of evidence, I take that very seriously. And my reputation has taken a long time to build in this community and that's not something that I would ever consider nor would anyone up here. Miss Parkinson said something about not keeping any recreation in the downtown and I can tell you I for one and most of us up here have insisted on recreation being kept in the downtown and it may look a little different but we have all insisted on it and I've spoken to many of you about it, Ms. Viva, Ms. Morrow, Ms. Fisher, Ms. Rambo. I've spoken to many of you about this. I can I can promise you if you send me an email, if you include your phone number, I try to answer every single email and I call most of you if you put your phone number down. Very accessible we all are. Miss Fisher, you spoke about basketball. I've already spoken to Mr. Brown and I've spoken to our proposed partners and they are going to look for a way to keep not just the community center basketball which is indoor but an outdoor basketball court as well because we know how important that is and even the city attorney told me he often hears people right outside his window playing basketball on the outdoor courts. So I just wanted to address some of the things that I heard and we really, this is really the starting point where we're just, this is to gather information, this interim agreement. So I just wanted to talk about that. Thank you for noting that, yes, the plans do have indoor recreation of variety, including basketball, pickle and paddle sports. Anyone else Mr. Riger? Thank you. I appreciate everyone coming out. I appreciate the passion. When I was elected a couple of years ago, it was because I too passionate about Boka. I think we're all here because we all feel that way. Representing 100,000 people, they all can't come in this room, they email us often. As the mayor said, they all have different opinions. When I got elected, I went to City Hall the first time. And there was water pouring in the ceiling where the people that serve the city are working. There was water pouring in, there was mold everywhere. The place is at the end of its useful life. Then I started to learn that the city council previous to us in 2017 and 2019 had already been talking about replacing the city hall and replacing the community center, which is also at the end of its useful life. Just replacing what's there with something else that's there. And that project at that time was $200 million. And in today's dollars, that would probably be, I think, $300 million because construction costs have been increased. So the state of Florida passed a statute that allows the private sector to participate a little bit in this process and help us to phrase some of this costs. And we are at the very beginning, right, as my colleagues have said, this is only the interim agreement to enter into the due diligence period with a person that we ranked first that we believe will be the most respectful to the community's needs in the planning. And they've only put together a glimpse of what they're prepared to do. And my recollection is even on this glimpse, which is nowhere near final, that 70% of what they're proposing in terms of the land masses and the parks and that there will be all these different types of venues. 70% of that will be accessible to the public. As Ms. Nockle said, that's going to be changing. But this due diligence process, this searching for information, okay, the understanding and the appreciation that the current community center is at the end of its useful life. That is not right for us to require our municipal employees to work in a building like this that should be torn down immediately. It will even take years, as someone mentioned about phasing, it will take years for this process to go forward in terms of the planning and whatnot. But the point is these are things that have to be done. There's going to be participation here to save the taxpayers money, to protect our bond rating because we do also need to build a new police station. So we're balancing the needs of the community with replacing these. But there's been some good due diligence here too. One of the things that I've learned that I didn't know before was about softball equity. So of course I went on the internet. And my daughter never played softball. She played soccer. But it is true that a softball field is different from a baseball field. Softball fields don't have a mound, right? There's different situations, of course, the fences and things like that are different. So the opportunity here to create softball equity, as Mr. Brown said yesterday, in its own dedicated sector, with its own clubhouse and whatnot, I think is an opportunity to enhance that, as Mr. Brown said, and it's something I believe in that we could improve the things there because they are all at the end of their useful life. As Ms. Marrow and I talked about yesterday, I am downtown every weekend, volunteering, and just walking around doing analyses. And I went to the courts last weekend, and I played with some people that were there. And my knees shot too. So I do agree with it being clay. But more than half of those courts there need to be completely renovated because of the clays at the end of its useful life as well. So we have an opportunity here to enhance them. Maybe we can have a bunch of courts at Lake Wyman Park and maybe we could re-institute some courts at the Gulf and Racket Center and at the North Park. So there's an opportunity to enhance them and have a really nice clubhouse. So I think, one last thing is together with the Beach and Parks District and Mr. Brown and our own Recreational Department, we're working on a Parks and Recreation Master Plan to update for the future generations, the entire park and master plan. So certainly, with all due respect, it's not that recreation is a, and parks are in the back of our minds. I think they're in the very front of our minds, but planning for the future of the entire city. And I believe we're moving forward in the right direction. This process here today starts the due diligence process. It's funny because I have it open to that page. There is no obligation to proceed. This is the learning process and most real state or transactional natures. There's the due diligence process. In fact, when you all purchased your house like I did mine, you also have a due diligence process where you're gonna test everything out and see if this works. Please remember, every pipe, every electrical conduit, everything underneath the city hall and the community center has not been touched in 60 years, 70 years. We're going to have to redo these things anyway. We must redo them anyway. And having the private sector participate a little bit in this will be a benefit to us to keep the taxes as reasonable as possible. So I do really appreciate it. I do think this is the beginning of the right staff to really analysis how we're going to go forward here. And I believe the developers are here. And they, like these other things, these other meetings and chiroats that they've had, there's going to be plenty and plenty of time as my colleagues have said for public outreach that I'll be looking forward to seeing everyone here. And of course, as our colleague said said you could always reach out to us at any time to discuss this because it's important and we do want it to be the best for everyone we really do thank you. Anyone else? Mr. Thompson? Yes, record. First I want to thank everyone for being here this evening. I know that everyone has a lot of things going on in their lives and everyone's busy. What I want you to know is the people that sit up here, I'm also a taxpayer dollar. I love the city. I moved to the city in 2004. I've raised my two children in the city. Like Miss Nockless, my kids live half of the time in the downtown because that's where my ex-husband resides. I'm a barrier island which is right off the water off of Palmetto Park Road. So I spent a lot of time in the downtown. I know some of you in the audience, you come up to... my ex-husband resigned. He's on the barrier island, which is right off the water off of Palmetto Park Road. So I spent a lot of time in the downtown. I know some of you in the audience, you come up to me where we're in the downtown and we're out there looking around. What I can tell you is, when I first, I got elected in 2021 and I have never been able to serve at City Hall. This is our city hall because the city hall is so antiquated and we didn't fit. We wouldn't be able to have all of you in the audience if we worked out of city hall there. The first thing that I wanted to say is the working conditions for the employees were an incredible full service city with incredible amenities for all including myself. But our employees were working in very poor conditions. So that in itself, and I agree with Mr. Wigder that there was rain coming into the building. So that in itself was an issue that we're having with that property. We, someone mentioned I'm gonna go down the list and I'm gonna skip around Sanborn Square. If you listen to our meeting, I think it was two weeks ago or three weeks ago now. We are putting improvements in our CIP programs to improve San Bernard Square. We're not building San Bernard Square. We're trying to make that area even better and more friendly to the community. Like Ms. Nockle says, we have 49 parks. We have passive parks, which are on the water. We have parks that we just open like Rutherford. We have parks everywhere in our city. We take pride in the parks that we have in our recreation space. To the gentleman says that we don't need any workforce housing. I respectfully disagree. We need affordable housing for our residents that are professionals, our young professionals, whether it be our teachers, our policemen, women, firemen, our first responders, our nurses. they have nowhere to live. They need to find places to live. And affording them, work force, it's affordable, and the downtown is a good thing. Having mixed use in the downtown will also create jobs. We have a lot of kids study outside of Florida and they never come back. My daughter tells me every day, she's not gonna come back to Florida because it's too expensive to live here. So it's important that we not only educate our future, my future daughter, my future son, our future, but that they want to come back to the city that is so amazing. So they too can live work, play here. Downtown is vibrant. That's a definition of of a downtown. It's vibrant, it has buildings, it has commerce, it has restaurants. We want to make it mobility and connectivity. We want to make it pedestrian friendly. Endort Outdoor Recreation, very, very important to all of us. My kids played sports here. They're athletes, both of my children. And they've played in all the parks that we have in our city. We're gonna continue to take that into consideration and we want that information to come to us. Ms. Nakhla says, communication is critical through this process. Like Mayor Singer says, we're at the very beginning and we're having these conversations all the time. You can email us, make sure you email us. We read all of our emails. If you give us a number, we're gonna look at that. Turns out communication. Miss Avala, like. You can email us, make sure you email us. We read all of our emails. If you give us a number, we're gonna look at that. Turns out communication. Ms. Avila, like Ms. Nockless, you're comment about taking bribes, was in very poor taste, and not a nice thing to say, to people that are serving you and trying to do what is best for the community. I take great pride in the work that I've done on this council for close to five years, and nobody's bribing us to do anything. We spent enormous amounts of hours looking at all the proposals to make sure that we picked the one that we felt was the best interest of the community. So before you make an allegation of that magnitude, please have the right data because that is not correct and I take offense to that. Lastly, we need you to educate other people. So if you leave here and you speak to five other members of your community and those five speak to other five, and five more, the information will be disseminated more and more and more. And when you have a question and when in doubt and you don't have the right answer, that is why we're here to serve you, to find the answers, and to listen to you. We listen to the people, and maybe today it's not reflective of the people that really would like to have this project in the downtown, but I can assure you that we're listening to everyone. So I really do appreciate your time. I hope to speak to some of you throughout this process. We are always here to serve you, and we will continue to do the best that we can to make this community a better one. Thank you. Mr. Thompson. Thank you, Mayor. What we're here to talk about today is the approval or not of an interim agreement, right, that outlines the relationship, the beginning of the relationship with the developer that was chosen to help redesign our downtown A lot of the comments that we heard tonight related to the plan that was submitted by them as part of the process We've been doing and I was asked earlier to provide an answer so man I told you I would give you an answer so here I have it I will say what I said the last time when we were ranking these proposers, and that was about two, maybe a month ago. I said the following. I said that in my view, all of the applications, all the proposals, including this one, were too large, too dense, too intense, had too many units and had too many issues related to recreational facilities. That was what I said then, I stand by that. But we're not talking about the agreement, not the plan is not so much what's happening tonight. We're doing the agreement with the party that was ranked first. On that agreement, I do have some comments I'd like to share. The first is that the timeline, originally, the original timeline that before we got the revisions today, even at that point seemed aggressive, and now it just, it seems rushed. So the, the new dates that are on here seem really, really, really fast. And we need to make sure this is done thoughtfully. I, we all agree on that, but I, I just, to, in my view, these timelines are a little too truncated for that to happen. But I have to spend time today talking about what this agreement doesn't say. For decades, this city, when it would enter into agreement with any kind of vendor contractor consultant, would include in the contract, in the agreement, with this private entity, a provision. and if the guys have it in the back you could throw it up there. It had to do with the extent to which this party that was being we were entering an agreement with whether they could participate in city elections and once it gets up there I can read it before that guess I can. I'll just read it and I can, here it is. For decades, the contracts that the city has entered into with potential vendors, consultants, contractors, et cetera, would say something like this. During the term of the agreement that the consultant, the partner, provider, whatever, or any employer associate, shall not be involved in any political campaign for city elective office, nor make financial contribution to any such campaign. This provision, as I've said now, has been in the contract for the city for decades. It happens when we hire lawyers. It happens when we hire engineers. have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to an important role. The reason why I say that is it makes sure that decisions regarding who we're going to be doing business with at the city, that the decisions are based not on some political influence that can derive potentially from campaign contributions, but based on the merits of who the contract party is, what kind of job they're doing, that kind of thing. And admittedly, this can be inconvenient. When you run for office, part of the job is raising money, and several times along the way because of these provisions, I've had to decline to accept political contributions from people who did business with the city. But as inconvenient as that may be, that's the point. This is a good government concept, and it keeps business decisions being made based on business priorities, on the merits, not based on other things. Which brings us to the agreement that's before us tonight. The original draft of it included a provision like this, a variation on it. The version that's up for a vote tonight though, doesn't. That safeguard that has served our city well for decades was removed, quietly removed. And this is in a contract that involves what some of us up here have described as transformational or generational with regards to the future of our city. Something like this was removed. In this one of the most, in my view, one of the most important and consequential transactions the city has ever participated in. So Anne, I should note too that this is, as I think has been mentioned, this is the beginning of this relationship with this developer partner. There's lots that left to be done. We have to approve an interim master plan, which will be the kinds of things we talked about before, how tall the buildings are, how intense, how dense that kind of thing. There's going to be the negotiation of a comprehensive agreement. This is just an interim agreement. There's going to be potentially extensions of the due diligence period that we've been talking about today. So there's lots that's left to be done. And yet, this safeguard, this provision, As I said, served our city well for decades is now removed from this really important agreement. And it wasn't the developer partner who asked to have this removed. As I understand it wasn't the staff that demanded that this provision be removed. But nevertheless, this provision, the safeguards, what it is, which has been in our city's contracts for 20 years as now being removed, not in this contract that's being up for a vote tonight. This represents a pretty significant departure in the policy of this city. It's being done with regard to one of the most consequential and transformational transactions the city's ever had. And it's being done without really any notice or discussion apart from me raising it. That's just not good. If something like this is going to happen, we're going to take out a provision like this for a relationship like this, for a transaction like this, it needs to be done with notice, with transparency in a way that our residents can understand. And that's why I'm bringing it up. To me, it would seem that the partnership that we're proposing here and this document embodies the beginnings of it. And the partnership that it creates should be subject to the same kinds of safeguards that we have for our janitorial staff or our lawyers, our engineers, accountants, are everybody that we do business with on a contract basis at the city. So you might think, well, you know, those contracts that you mentioned are old or from the past, and maybe that's true. Although we've done them pretty recently actually, our agreement with CBRE are consultant in this, with regard to this campus redevelopment, it is included in with them. It is included with our relationship with circuit, the shuttle service that runs downtown. It was in the agreement with TCAI. It was in the agreement with Brightline. It was in the agreement with Alta. This provision pervades our contracts. I can't be more clear about that. But those things, while somewhat recent, are not as recent as the last three times that same provision was adopted and approved in a contract. Do you want to know when that was? Tonight, three of the agreements that were on our consent agenda included that same exact provision. The provision that you're reading on the screen there, that was in resolution 32-2025, which was approved time. So I find it hard to believe that we're willing to adopt and improve this provision for decades, up and through, you know, an hour ago, but it's not good enough for the biggest, most transformative, most consequential agreement in a relationship that the city will have going forward. I believe it is obvious, probably, from me also you can understand that this should be in this agreement as well. It makes all the sense in the world to have it be included in this agreement as well, just as it has been for just about every contract of significance for 20 plus years. The safeguard has to be in there. So, Mr. Mayor, I would move that we amend the motion on the floor to insert this provision. We can change consultant to developer or partner whatever. Because I think that that provides the kind of transparency and the kinds of assurance to our residents that these decisions are being made based on what's best for the residents, what's best for the city and not based on some other influence. That's the motion that I'm making. I'm happy to discuss is there a second though, if not, then we can take up discussion. All right Motion fails for lack of a second. Could you put the language back up there? We're not done First is johms and I just want to ask you that you raise this concern You also want to dress your other concern about the timing is there I Don't I don't feel this is rushed in fact 150 diligence, which can't be extended and might be extended. I don't think we've been discussing for quite some time. I don't think it's rushed at all. Are you prepared if we can come to terms on this or you prepared to find a way to support this matter or not? Possibly. That's itself a significant discussion, which we can have if that's what you're asking. I think the original timeline was far more suitable to provide. I think the level of outreach opportunities. Yes, I know we'll have every single one of our meetings has an opportunity to come in. But one thing I think we've heard now over the course of the last few months is, and for whatever reason, I believe them, that they're just hearing about this. I know we've been talking about this for a long time but that doesn't mean that on the street level everybody has understood that this thing is happening and so that that's why it's very fine let's take up this issue I don't think this 14 three was in this draft but the language is there let me give I'll turn to the city attorney in earlier draft of this language had it had language that didn't track what was the stock language that's been apparently used for a number of years. We looked at Mr. Kailer, looked at the actual language, sought to track, and then I actually looked at the resolution. I think the old city attorney had my understanding of my conversations with her over many years was not correct. The council that under that resolution going back from 2002 didn't require this language. I don't know if it applies here, but if your concern is about the financial contribution to campaign, I'm finally putting that in. My concern was in light of Supreme Court president about First Amendment speech, Citizens United and the other things. She'll not be involved any political campaign, and any employee in associate which lent to family members was unclear whether they could vote. And I have to admit, I didn't realize that that language was still in the agreements which we hadn't discussed that had already been routed for the consent agenda. This came up in the review of this agreement. I don't think this language should be used in our agreements anymore I don't think we should be saying should not be involved because it's vague you can't vote you can't speak if you have a Concern about financial contributions to a campaign. I think that's minimal, but I have I have no problem precluding someone I have no problem with the concept that they can't make a Contribution to the political campaign for the elected office It It is a little weird. It's unusual because we have other parties who sometimes compete with our city vendors who can. So that might be a policy discussion for another day. But Mr. Kailer, could you just give some of the history because I think it was very informative. There was nothing sneaky. It was more, hey, I saw a problem. We saw a problem and there was now a first amendment in concern, which I think we can address. I think your issue is the contribution, not the speech. Sure. Thank you, Mayor and Mr. Thompson, for raising the issue. And of course, my role as city attorney is to provide legal guidance, not make any policy decisions or set policy and to support whatever decision this council makes from a policy standpoint, whether that is inserting language as shown on the screen, whether it is modifying it to, as the mayor suggested, I will note for the record that our partner, Tara Frisbee, has indicated that they have signed. In fact, they have signed agreements either way. They don't have an opinion on this issue. They say it's up to the City Council. This is the City Council's policy choice. So the public understands, so the Council understands exactly what's being discussed and how it did come up and very briefly is there was a 1995 city manager memorandum. And that memorandum was to the purchasing division related to procurement. It's never been a requirement of law or an ordinance or resolution that establishes a formal city policy. So respectfully, I do disagree with Mr. Thompson with that regard. There is a resolution from 2002 where the City Council decided the issue of how to interpret a word called associate. And that was the purpose of that resolution. It did not say that there was a policy of the city to include that provision. In certain contracts, it didn't say it was the policy to include it in all contracts. It simply said that when it was included, this was how to interpret that term. And as Mr. Thompson points out that phrase has been included in vendor contracts, contracts for goods and services, professional services, consultants, construction, and in 2019 it was included in the bright line. And that included the construction of the parking garage, where the city contributed about $11.5 million. And I was tasked by this council to draft the first draft of the interim agreement and very proud of the work that the city and the partner did on this agreement. I based the original draft on the bright line as a starting point. And so that clause carried over to which eventually led me to more carefully assess that 2002 resolution. It's tried to determine whether or not it was required to be included or not in this type of agreement. And so when I looked at this agreement, I had seen that it was not a vendor contract agreement for goods or services or construction or consultant contract, and so therefore the agreement presented tonight didn't contain that clause. But again, as I said at the outset, whether this body wants to include it or not, or some modified version, or some alternative option, is entirely up to the council. And again, our partner is fine either way. So I would suggest if I've already applied so let me hear from others anyone else Sure I'm sure I heard about this from the city attorney as well and My understanding from our conversation was Exactly what mr. Kailer said that this is not the type of typical vendor That is is going here in fact they're paying us so it Meaning the city in terms of a revenue component Also my understanding is from all the projects that may have been before us, are before us, are before us now, are before us today, after this, that with respect to the projects itself, as Mr. Thompson said, that political campaigns are part of that and as Mayor Singer said that First Amendment rights in terms of companies being able to participate and I'm sure Mr. Thompson has taken Mr. Mayor all of us have had contributions from people. That's typical that's the way that that campaigns work. So to say that no campaign should ever have a contribution if that person ever does a project in front of the city, I mean, is the amendment saying that there should never be a contribution for any campaign ever? And so it's a slippery slope in this respect. My understanding is it was related to vendors. Even the word here, it says consultant, because one can look at the word consultant, say, okay, this is for a limited duration. This agreement, again, goes into a project which in theory is going to last 99 years. Who is looking at this agreement in year 73 to determine which associates of which of employees of the then consultants, of then the people that are owning the building? Why? Because it doesn't make sense if it was to apply on a project. It makes sense if it was applied to a vendor for a limited duration period, which makes sense to me, in which I totally agree, for those types of things, 100%. For a limited duration vendor, absolutely. For a project of this nature, again, it's called a master agreement partnership, but it is a public-private partnership, approving a project, which we've done many times. So, for reason, I'm okay with some variation of it to make sure that the sanctity or transparency of it is fine, but I don't think it extends to every single project that's ever been before us or every other city in the state of Florida because, as Mr. Mayor Singer said, that's a First Amendment amendment issue and I'm not willing to breach that at this time. For the comments? So, I agree. I agree 100% Mr. Wade during Mr. Singer because we have rules in the state that we have to follow. Everybody knows that we have to follow rules. There's ethics rules and if there are issues, people follow complaints. This is part of, this is part of the everyday if you want to be an elected official. So to me, when I see this, is like we're single, we're picking one partner. So what happens with the other three proposals that are still in play? Because God forbid, this falls through. So if by whatever dates we decide, we don't have a decide on the dates. If by every day we decide things fall through, then no contribution should be received from the other proposers either to anybody because they're still in the play. So now you're saying we can't accept any political campaigns from this company, but maybe we can accept campaign monies from another company. They're still proposers of this project. And with all due respect, Mr. Thompson, I know you didn't select this proposal. This is not your number one proposal. So what is it to tell me that maybe there's, and I'm not saying anything against you, I'm just saying in general that all the proposals are not going to be, you know, trying to to to to court us. At the end of the day, we are not taking political campaigns to vote on projects. We're doing or due diligence as elected of the people. And I just said this to Ms. Avila, with integrity, and we have ethics that we follow. So I'm not sure where this came from, what we're trying to do here. We've always worked with integrity. We take Mr. Wigger says, they are contributions that are made to campaigns. Their public, you guys can look them up. They come to us. That is part of this job. But it doesn't mean that they're tied into how we vote or how we pick projects. So again, this is all going in a direction which is kind of very disheartening today. So I don't understand why, excuse me, excuse me. Why we're putting things in towards this particular, first of all, excuse me, if please respect the fact that I'm speaking, thank you. So I don't know why we're putting this in. If it's not supposed to be in here, I don't understand if it's just why are we targeting this project and not like all the vendors. So if we're going to make some changes and let's do it for all or let's just do a policy that would be good policy for all projects, all vendors, all consultants, not pick one project. Thank you. And by the way, Mr. Wigger hit the point that I think I didn't talk about. This doesn't, we can try it if we want to land on something today, but this is trying to shoehorn in something all the other agreements, including the ones on the consent of General for vendors. This is not a vendor contract, but I was working out. Let's, I've got something maybe. Ms. Nackles. Okay, thank you. And I'm sure you'll come up with the right words, but Mr. Wigder touched on it first, and then Mr. Wigdard touched on it first, and then Mr. Rucker, that there are county and state ethics on campaign financing that we have to follow that everyone has to follow. So I talked a little bit with Mr. Kailer about that. Since this was not a policy decision from previous councils, there was a kind of a muddled history of why that wording was in there. Mr. Kailer suggested maybe putting something about partner will follow all county and state ethics rules on campaign financing in there. That should just be, that should just happen because we're all expected for that to happen. But if it would, I will make the motion that we put wording like that in there, the partner will follow all county and state ethics rules on campaign financing. Second. Yeah, I think that, okay, for the discussion on the amendment. So there are a couple points that were made. One is, I think there's a couple of comments made about if we should apply this to all vendors, all consultants, all contractors, totally agree. We do. This has been in there. That's the point. Let me go through the ones that just in the last three months we have approved that include this provision. Vendors, consultants, contractors, like that you just mentioned, on our meeting on January 13th. Resolution 1-2025. We approve the agreement of this kind, and include this provision with ADG LLC, those are architects. The same night, Resolution 9-2025, we approved the contract with Kaufman Lynn that contained the same provision. January 28th, our meeting, and we adopted Resolution 19-2025, which included the same kind of provision relating to our insurance brokers. In February 11th, that was our, that was two meetings ago. We approved as part of our consent agenda, 22- 2025, which was a contract with Johnson Davis. They handled some of our wastewater stuff. Same night, Resolution 23- 2025. That was the circuit agreement where we hired circuit to provide the shuttle service. And I think the point is this is not a typical vendor here. You're right. It's a 99 year relationship. It is way more significant. If we're going to apply that to a vendor who is in town working for us for a period of time, including the janitorial staff, I think it's only fair that we include it with a far more consequential, far more significant relationship like this one, which as you said, it could potentially last as long as 99 years. Another comment that was made, no idea where this came from. This came in the draft of the agreement. The draft of the agreement contained this. It started with the Bright Line, that was the model for it, but Bright Line wasn't the only example of a situation like this where he had a provision similar to this one. This center for arts and innovation had one too. So, yes, admittedly, this is not a vendor of a finite duration, the way that we're talking about some of these other people, but the ones that are most akin to it, Bright Line, long term relationship, TCAI, was intended to be one, both had that provision in there and I don't recall anybody raising a single peep about them. And not because it was included, nobody was saying it shouldn't have been included. And in all the ones tonight, there was three of them, Resolution 32-2025, relating to, I think, those are, one tonight was architects, and the other one was providing, I forget. But three of the contracts under Consent to Judd tonight included this provision. I didn't hear a single objection to having that in there. Nor have I ever heard a single objection to having this provision be in there in the time that I've been paying attention, which is like 10 years. So it seems like a very strange time for us to be adamant about removing it right now We're on the verge of commencing what is I know to be a generational and consequential relationship the idea that we're going to ask them to comply with county and state ethics laws and campaign finance rules every resident in the state of Florida is bound to do that those are criminal laws you have to do that asking them to do that is not like a big ask they're not getting anything more by adding that than what you have by existing. By being a resident who can provide a campaign donation, you're bound. Everybody in this room is bound by those rules. You don't have to sign a contract saying, I agree to be bound by that. You live here. You have to. So that's not a, to me, you're not getting anything there. There's no, there's certainly no assurance to the residents that this is something that's being done based on business decision which best for the city. That's not a, to me, you're not getting anything there. There's no, there's certainly no assurance to the residents that this is something that's being done based on business decision which best for the city. That's why this agreement has been in there. Was it a formal policy embodied in ordinance? No. No, I guess not. I guess I learned that too. But it has been routine for us in every contract basically of any significance to include it. is a really, really strange time to insist that it be taken out. That's all that I'm saying. Mr. Thompson I think I have a we have the amendment there is an amendment that's been seconded so that's on there let me throw out something for all of us because I don't think anyone's insisting the timing why now because an earlier draft didn't track the language of the resolution and we looked at the resolution I think a fresh set of attorney's eyes which are good after a while saw that we didn't have a policy and we were repeating it and then looked at hey there's language and light of Supreme Court precedent since 2002 that impacts that. So I would suggest perhaps this language as another counterpoint throughout our week. We've got another thing on there. During the term of this interim agreement, the proposal or an employee shall not make a financial contribution to a campaign of a candidate for City elective office. That takes away the issue about the involved campaign, which is a free speech issue that I think may sink the whole thing. That's what citizens United did. And I can read it again. During the term of this interim agreement, the proposal or an employee shall not make a financial contribution to a campaign of a candidate for city elective office. May I address that quickly? Mr. Johnson? So the point you made was how to do with, I think you mentioned voting as being the primary motivator for, or the concern with that phrase, the political involved. To answer the question, it's not just voting, canvassing, voting, expressing an opinion, offering to volunteer, anything. I think it's highly unlikely that this, I'm just talking about a general policy, I think this should be the language going forward. We're talking about it now, that's fine, but I don't think we need to, but we are. Probably could have done this on a workshop, which was an intention, but we're here now, yes. Would have been happy to have raised this, or had this discussion at a workshop, but this is the instance that it's being asked to be removed. So that's why we're addressing it now. You mentioned Citizens United. I've memory served. I was back in 2010. And this provision has been in there. Look, it's been in there 10 times just this year who knows how many times in our contracts it's been in there since 2010. So if there was some constitutional issue associated with this one would think that we would have addressed it at some point in the last 15 years. So I'm not certain that it has those kinds of constitutional issues. And like I said, it just purposes of the optics, it's very curious to be changing something like this. It was fine an hour ago, two hours ago, but it's less fine now. I think that has optical problems. I don't... I think we're trying to respond to the concern you've arranged. We obviously feel very strongly about it. Mr. Kailer's point was this isn't that type of agreement. It's not a vendor contract, but I'm trying to find the common ground here. So what did you think of that particular language? I think it addresses your concern and also addresses the free speech concern. What did Mr. Kala could you answer this? The proposed suggestion by the mayor didn't include the phrase or associate. How has the city interpreted or used the term associate previously? Sure, your correct Mr. Thompson, the motion by the mayor was that the partner or any employee, the term associate was the subject of the 2002 resolution. And that term was in 2002 defined by the council, because then council member Freudenberg wanted to volunteer on an advisory board of the Tri-County Humane Society. Now it's the Anttruck County Animal Rescue at Embokaria Road. And so he was worried that by him serving on the volunteer board, he would be deemed an associate and would be barred. And so what the council did in 2002 was it defined associate to one, make sure it clarified didn't include an unsalored officer's board, or volunteers of a non-for-profit. And then too, it very broadly defined it to include all of the officers, directors, partners, managers of an entity, as well as the spouses, parents, children, and siblings of those individuals. So that resolution which describes what an associate is, in 2002, is very broad. But that is the adopted resolution of the City Council. Without understanding, I would be okay if the revised language said that during the term of this interim agreement, the developer or any employee or associate shall not make financial contribution to any such campaign for city-elective office. As long as it includes the phrase associate, that is at least in keeping with what we've been doing all this time.. Please. So I go back to what we've been discussing. So, and by the way, just so that everyone takes it easy, I'm turning out, so I'm not running for any city office. So I'm just here voicing my opinion that this is not a vendor. All the examples Mr. Thompson that you presented tonight are vendor agreements that we enter because they go through a formal RFP which we do not do so today or with this project and this has been more of a developer and this is a developer that's coming to us with site plans, et cetera, et cetera. How would this be any different than any of the other projects that we engage with? So these are not vendor agreements that we're going to be that a vendor. However, if you want to put language in there, like I just said, I'm not running for another city office, but it has to apply to all the proposals that are still left there. I want language, whether it's in interim or we have to pass another policy, that we're not allowed to take any money from any of the other three proposals that are still in contention possibly. So I will go ahead with that. If we include that, then we can vote on this today. If we can't include those individuals, then I'm not going to support the language to add. Because I believe that we're treating this very differently because they're not a vendor. This was not an RFP process. So if that's a case, then we need to add to whatever policy we decide. We need to add the related group. We need to add NAMDAR and we need to add Roka point because those are still proposals that are still ranked. And if God forbid this deal falls through, hopefully not, they have invented interest in this process. And I would hate that contributions are being made and then if anything changes, then that would be not fair because that's what we're trying to ask of this vendor or of this proposal because I don't think they're a vendor. I'm not an attorney but I'm just kind of saying it plainly like what I'm seeing. All right. Well we are getting appreciate those comments. We are. I don't think we can include that in this agreement. We probably have to come back and revisit the policy. I am also term limited, so I will not be taking contradictions for a political campaign for mayor. So it's up to the council, I will help people want to conduct, if you want to keep it on an equal field. Thoughts on Mr. Thompson? We're on Mr. Thompson's point on associate. Any further comment? Mr. Wadger. I appreciate all the comments said and this is collaborating. This is what it is. I don't disagree that this issue could have been workshoped before as in yesterday because I think you had the agreement yesterday. But that's okay. But certainly I would say the mayor's suggestion to do that. I didn't quite understand Mr. Tom's associate thing, but I'm sure some formation of that is okay. I think that language definitely hits it home. And then to Deputy Mayor Drucker's point, yeah, absolutely. putting this on a workshop for what we have to do for other proposers and going forward basis, right? You know, re-evaluating this policy to make sure it's updated to the times and all of those things. I mean, absolutely. You know, from time to time we do need to look at these things and update them. And so obviously it's another thing that this is uncovering is that yeah, you need to update some of these policies as well. So with that being said, I would say, you know, certainly I think the mayor's craft was hitting the point home. And then Mr. Thompson had an amendment to that regarding kind of the expansion of employee and or Associate but we haven't kind of hit home what the definition of associate is so I think right is that that correct? To answer a question mr. Kailer I think you're referring to the same definition which is a little brought to but In in for example the bright line agreement said associate as described in city resolution number 64, 2002. And so that's how it's been treated in other examples. And that resolution, which is a record, includes this long list of officers, directors, and these identified family members. I think that, is that what you were, if I may? Yes, that's been the policy and it's been in the contracts for years. So yes, the same provision, the same language about or associate, and the same interpretation as to what that meant going back to 2002. I don't remember all those things. If we were to incorporate the consistent language and just deal with the financial contribution side, not the campaigning or voting or whatever, which is a concern for me, during the term of this interim agreement, the proposal or an employee or an associate parentheses as described in resolution 64-20 2002, closed parentheses, shall not make a financial contribution to a campaign of a candidate for city elective office. All right, Mr. Thompson gave a thumbs up. Mr. Wig, you're nodded yes. So just because I think I agree with Mr. Wig, we had time Mr. Thompson to have a discussion yesterday at workshop. It would have saved a lot of time from the folks that are sitting here today. You know how I feel about making policy on the spot. My opinion is to leave it out. We come back the next meeting with the policy and we've all had a chance to look at the wording. And what's we approve it? It takes into place and no proposers can give any contributions. Even this one. That is what I would do. Because right now we are picking things and choosing things and saying associates and saying other things. We're, this is such an important document and we're just going to like throw things at it. We all know that we're following state and Pongi County ethics. From here to two weeks to our next meeting, if we could put this on a workshop and make good policy, that applies to this proposal and the future proposals. That's great, but tonight I'm not gonna support anything like this because we had an opportunity to workshop this yesterday and it was just brought up to our attention at this day is. And I would also like to input from the public. Maybe they want to have some input on this policy that they were going to enact. So I wouldn't support any of it as of right now. And again, I want the viewers, I want the listeners and I want all you in the audience. This is not a typical vendor. This is not a vendor to us. This is a project developer proposal that came to us. Very different than the items that Mr. Thompson has cited. I don't want to create confusion because that is not what we're trying to do here. All right, further comments, Ms. Nackles? Thank you. I'll just conclude with. I also don't think we need to make policy on the fly. This was not an official policy of the City Council before. I think, again, following all county and state ethics rules should be enough. We should be honest about this. We should not let money influence us. And my husband, you always say, you never do anything for money. I mean life is more than that. So in the decisions we make are much more than a campaign contribution. So I agree with Deputy Mayor Drucker that we do not make a policy decision on the fly. We could have workshopped it yesterday. I'm fine workshopping it at the next meeting and then if we need to drop it in and actually make a policy instead of having something, you know, random. I mean, I know prior to me being on council, there were agreements made and there were campaign contributions made by associates to people. So, you know, I just am kind of questioning all this right now. And I think if we ourselves always follow county and state ethics rules, and we expect our partner and other partners to follow those rules as well, then that's what we live by. So I am totally open to having this discussion at a workshop and making good policy, but I would stick with my original amendment. Okay. Mr. Thompson, may I just go back to the question? We didn't get to it. Depending on the outcome of this, do you want to talk about the one, the timing or are you still a heartburn about that? I do still have heartburn about timing. That's a separate issue, yeah. Then we might not, trying to solve this issue to address your concern, might not address that. Would you want to talk about, I mean, if we can't satisfy you on that, then so be it. We might just go forward with this and come back on trying to workshop this language. That's fine. Let me just say this. This is not making policy on the fly. Please. It's not, because since at least 2002, this provision has been in every contract of significance in the city to remove it as the making of policy. The removal of it is the making of policy. So I'm sorry, I'm not going to be lectured about why are we making policy right now. All I'm trying to do is keep us consistent with what the city has done for decades. That's all. To the extent you want to have a conversation later on about other part fine. But we're here now talking about this contract. And this one is the one that was had a conspic it conspicuously removed That's why it had to be brought up now Mr. Thompson hold on one moment We might disagree with the conspicuousness of its removal But certainly the discussion couldn't be more transparent now so that you know for that we're moving forward Mr. Walker. Yeah, Mr. Thompson. I'm not sure where you're coming that we're trying to remove things and not, you know, again, what I said earlier was we had this, you've had this agreement for about a couple, maybe last week we got all the information. We could have had a workshop. Our meeting was really short yesterday. We could have had this conversation. We could have had time to review everything. Out of workshop, how to robust conversation. Go home last night, on it, come back today, have conversations with other attorney. You decided to bring it up in this forum, which I believe is making policy on the fly. My concern is not the political campaigns, like I've told everyone in this chamber, I am term limited, not running for any city office, but the other proposals that are out there that are a part of this process. they also have to take it and account it for. And with all due respect, you do not vote for this proposer. You wrote it for another proposer in the ranking. So I just want to have parity through all the proposers and making sure that we cover that. So that's why I'm saying that we should hold off and bring this to a workshop and make good policy. Okay, all right, so we have an amendment on the floor that's been seconded which was to could you repeat the language please? Sure, and Mr. Kailer if you'd like to Sure, my understanding of Miss Nackel's amendment, if you can confirm, would be that during the term of the agreement partner and all employees and associates of partner has described in resolution, say, resolution number 64 to 2002, shall comply in all respects with any and all applicable provisions of the Florida election code, Florida code of ethics, and Palm Beach County code of ethics. Yes. Okay, so that's been moved in second if any further discussion on that amendment. I'll just reiterate. People are bound to do that already. The floor election law, like they're already bound by those things. So having them agreed to do it is really not a meaningful addition and it doesn't accomplish the same kind of assurance that I think this provision has done in this city for decades. So I'm going to vote no on that. Okay. Further discussion? All right. All those in favor of the amendment as is. Hi. Hi. Hi. Opposed? No. Fine. For one on the amendment. Any further discussion on this matter? I would like, do we have consensus to bring this up at a workshop, because it's a more full-reaching discussion. And Ms. Brown said you get to put it on the next meeting. Ms. Drucker's point about parity with multiple parties in the mix is a fair one, but there is more discussion. Any further discussion? Sure, I just wanted to talk about the timing. Yes, please also Though we got this new we got this Refined and revised Schedule today it doesn't preclude us from making extensions if we need them correct Okay Can you just I nodded yes, but can you confirm Mr. Geller? I'm under the interim agreement the City Council retains all discretion in terms of timing. So if there are any extensions if it have to become to the City Council. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for the discussion on the agreement. I still think the time I think you hit a very good point Ms. Naclas Agreements tend to get extended they rarely get shortened and We're still talking about a process that would go you know through three seasons if not longer I think that you know the the Proposers find the timing but I also think it puts an incumbent responsibility upon us They get land use regulations going so that if they're ready We're not moving because they could take shorter time too, you know could hypothetically Proposers are rarely do but they could so we'll have to see so I'm fine with the timing. I know mr. Thompson at a concern, but We the other one didn't address it. So if that's there. That's so be it all right So any further discussion then discussion? Then we'll call, oh please Mr. Riger. No, I just, along with what my colleagues are saying, yeah, often I find during these types of agreements that agreement that due diligence periods are extended, provided that the parties are diligently pursuing the achieved goals. And I think right under the due diligence period, as I said previously, as the paragraph says that there's no obligation to proceed by either party. So the idea here is that we have many, many months to work together to form this. And like I said, if we're getting really close to the finish line and we're not quite there there is nothing forcing either party to say okay well we've got assigned by this date or whatnot and in the spirit of collaboration that's so far we've been working well together I think that's what's going to happen again which is saying hey guys we're very very close we're still working on these final things maybe we need we need a couple of weeks. Maybe we need three weeks. Maybe we need 30 days. Maybe we need two months. The point is, as the parties are working together during this process, we will know. We will know. And maybe it's us. Maybe we're saying, hey, we're working on some of these other regulations. We, the city needs more time to do that thing. So we have the opportunity to, you know, so we have the opportunity to work throughout this project and extend it, extend it as long as we need to to make sure we have the best agreement for everybody. So I think with that said, it's the way it's written. It's fine. Right now. Ms. Rucker. Yes. I agree. I think that also, I guess a couple of questions. Obviously we're gonna continue to have public comment in all of our meetings that we have remaining. Like we said, we wanna hear from you. You can email us, you can come here, Ms. Moore, you come here every meeting, you provide feedback. Continue to provide feedback when you see things that you don't like, keep emailing, us keep coming to the meetings. I'm not sure if we're doing, I think, are we doing another? I guess there's a question for Mr. Brown. Are we going to have another type of open house? I've gotten a couple of questions about that. I think I saw it, but I just want to make sure I tell it to the group because they're here. or what about up there, hearing them about another open house, another forum for them to come and speak publicly. Right, this is a plan. I'll start with Mike Poisson. A suretis plan and there will probably be additional opportunities as well. Thank you. All right. Thank you. And then Mr. Cahler, I know we have the time. Let's revisit. We have the timeline there. Would you like to read that language specifically? Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just so that Council members so that the record clearly record clearly reflects as the motion would be to approve the resolution subject to previously adopted amendment and the amendments to reflect the agreement as revised today, March 18th, and I'll just read those into the record. That would be on page 3, section 1.2 would be changing 180 days to 150 days. That is in two places on page 7, section 6.1. It is reducing the 90 day period to 75 days. page 14, 17.1. With regard regarding the interim report, it would read honor before September 3, the partner shall submit a detailed interim report instead of at the conclusion of the due diligence period as reflected in the timeline that was shared earlier. page 15, section 19, December 31st would be changed to October 31st. And then lastly, exhibit B would be reflected across the, well, in multiple places to reflect the updated dates including due diligence period. There is one minor change as to the first advanced payment would be, it's actually, it was calculated off by a day. So it would be Tuesday, April 8th and set of Monday, April 7th. And then the remaining days for the updates to studies, mobility traffic, multimodal connectivity assessment, comments, comprehensive financing, capital plan, and related references are all adjusted accordingly to reflect the modified dates. Thank you. And they're actually, they're all spelled out instead of saying 15 days or 60 days from X-Day, which I think will be more useful to all of us looking at a timeline. You can see the timeline. It will be more transparent, which we'll put on the web as soon as we're done. Right? All right, very good. All right. Any further discussion? Then on the resolution, please. NACLIS? Yes. Wickeder? Yes. Drucker? Yes. Singer? Yes. Thompson? No. Motion passes. Four votes to one. All right. Well, thank you. I'm going to suggest, because I know some people, you're welcome to stay for the rest of the meeting, and come back to other ones. But we have other items. If you want to clear the room now, I think we should take a ten minute recess. and we'll take a tentative recess and thank you for coming out. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Music I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to do it. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. you you you you you and we are resuming our city council meeting at the time of 836. Our next item on the agenda is item 11, quasi-judicial and related public hearings and the the public hearings on items A1 and A2 will be combined because these items are interrelated. A separate vote will be taken on each item. Because the two items are quasi-judicial in nature, the city's quasi-judicial procedures will be applied to the combined discussion. And if item A1 is not approved, no vote will be taken on item A2. At this point, Ms. Siddins, would you please read the title of Resolution 39 and Resolution 40-2025. Resolution 39, a resolution of the city of Boko Riton considering for the approximately 5.98 acre property generally located at 50801 Congress Avenue. Conditional use approval pursuant to section 28-978 code ofotive ordinances, to authorize an 11,980 square foot athletic training facility in 1816 47,116 square foot warehouse and office building in the light industrial research park LIRP zoning district, providing for a peeler, providing an effective date, Resolution 40 2025. A resolution of the City of Boker aton considering for the approximately 5.98 acre property generally located at 58.01 Congress Avenue, an amendment to an approved site plan, amending planning and zoning board resolution number 16- excuse me, number 6-14 to authorize minor site improvements including updating tabular data for a new athletic training facility use on the property. Restriping portions of the surface parking area, providing a new six foot sidewalk for a section of the property frontage along northwest Broken Sound Parkway, increasing the existing sidewalk width to six feet for a section of the property frontage along northwest Broken Sound Parkway, increasing the existing sidewalk width to 6 feet for the property frontage along Congress Avenue providing interior crosswalks and additional landscaping together with a technical deviation from section 28-1655 code of ordinances to reduce the number of off-street parking spaces from 139 spaces to 127 spaces, providing for a peeler and specifically repealing planning and zoning board resolution number 82-51, providing an effective date. Thank you, and I'll ask the city attorney to review the quasi-adjustional procedure that will govern tonight's public hearing. Thank you, Mayor, council members. The city's code of ordinance that each applicant requesting approval, relief for other action from the City Council. Shall disclose at the commencement or continuing to the public hearing and consideration. Or payment provided or committed directly, or on its behalf, for an agreement to support with all objection to the requested relief or action. Copy of the quads as usual rules governing this matter are attached to the agenda and are available from the city clerk. Thank you. At this point we'll ask council members if they have any x-parte communications. They wish to disclose. I'll start on my left from Mr. Thompson. I believe Jonathan Nungen has mentioned this site to me over the course of meetings and perhaps even at our meetings here. And I have visited the athletic facility itself. Thank you. Is that close? Thank you. I have no exparte other than what was previously disclosed in 2023. I think when we talked about this before with Matthew Scott and Jonathan Ungen. Thank you. Ms. Dr. The same. I have visited the site and I know where it's at and I think there's a text I remember we put into place a couple years ago and this was before us but I haven't had no other conversations is that point I think there was a year and a put into place a couple years ago, and this was before us, but I haven't had no other conversations is that point. I think that was a year and a half ago or so. Thank you, Mr. Reader. My own personal office was at this site 15 years ago for a period of one year. So I am familiar with the owner of the property, and I am familiar with the property. I am friendly with the owner, and I've been to the property multiple times. But other than that, I've had no exparte communications about this specific application with any party at all. Thank you. Noravai had any such communications, although I have driven by the site many times, including probably all of you tonight as well. With that, we'll ask anyone who wishes to speak on this matter to please rise, so the clerk can administer the oath. If you think who wishes to speak on this matter to please rise so the clerk can administer the oath. If you think you want to speak on this matter, you might as well rise now, because it will save time later. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that any testimony you may give before this public hearing will be truthful and accurate? I know. Thank you. Mr. Revan. Thank you Mayor on Devon senior planner with the government services will make the presentation on the resolutions Good evening. Oh, or mayor and council members as George said my name is on devil and I'm seeing our plan on with the federal and services I'm here to present a request for the approval of a conditional use application an amendment to a previously approved site plan on one Technical deviation from the city's code of ordinance for the property located at 5801 Congress Avenue. The approximate six acre property is located on the northwest corner of Congress Avenue and northwest broken town parkway as can be seen on the map with the dotted line. The property is owned light industrial and research park lurk with the designation is in our plan mobility. The applicant is requesting the conditional use of pursuant to section 28-978 call of ordinances to authorize an 11,980 square foot athletic training facility in the existing 47,160 square foot warehouse slash office building. A site and a plan amendment to authorize minus minor site improvements, including updating the tabular data for the property. On one technical deviation from section 28, dash 1655 to reduce the required number of parking spaces from 129 spaces to 127 spaces. The applicant's request the conditional use approval to authorize an 11,000 square foot athletic training facility in existing 47,160 square foot warehouse and office building. On September 12th, 2023, the City Council adopted ordinance number 5658, which added athletic training facilities as a conditionally use in the lurks zoning district. The applicant is currently operating at the property without a conditionally use approval. The city has issued a COVID enforcement notice of violation requiring the applicant to attain formal approval from the facility. The proposed site plan is displayed on the screen. The applicant is seeking site plan approval for minor improvements which include the restriping parts of the surface parking area to create additional parking spaces, widening certain sections of the sidewalk from 5 feet to 6 feet, a construction of a new 6 foot sidewalk, and adding interior crosswalks along with additional landscaping. Access to the property will remain unchanged and there will be no modifications to the existing buildings height, square footage or floor area. The applicant has requested a technical deviation from section 281655 to reduce the required number of parking spaces from 139 spaces to 127. Based on the application, The property is currently operating on the property. The property is currently operating on the property. The property is currently operating on the property. The property is currently operating on the property. The property is currently operating on the property. The property is currently operating on the the property. This approval will bring the existing use into compliance with the city's cold requirement and resolve an open cold enforcement case regarding the use. The property is consistent and compatible with the existing land use on the property and adjacent industrial warehouse and residential developments. National Protective in Dusha parks include the electric train facilities. The proposed facility will provide city residents with a local and specialized recreational amenity in this area of the city. Staff are now in consistencies between the project and the comprehensive plan. The planning is on board recommended approval that they're meeting and the development services is recommending approval of the application. So that's the end of my presentation. If you have any questions for staff, I'd happily answer. Thank you, Council members, any questions? I have one. Could you just elaborate a little bit more on the analysis staff did for the slight reduction in the number of parking spaces here. So on screen is the technical deviation request based on professional office, the property requires 98 spaces, where houses 11 spaces and a lectureal are a athletic training facility is 30 spaces. The applicant provided a parking study. I think John Donnelly was the applicant on the case. He's here if you want to ask him any questions. One of the main justifications was the existing warehouse on the facility. It's not an operating warehouse facility. It's pretty much used for storage of the owner of the property to store vehicles. Yeah, so I can answer. All right, thank you. I have all two table looser now. Any further questions? Just have one question.. Can you tell me the data this application? When this application came in? What's it? Yeah, it's been in for a long time. In 2024. Yeah, definitely in 2024. The code amendment that you guys did came in in late 2023. June of 2023. Yeah, when we approved that as Miss Drucker mentioned earlier, it was a number of months before the applicant came in for the actual condition use improvement. Off the top of my head, close to nine months. And yeah, and then the process took longer than normal. I would say. Thank you. For the questions. All right, at this point, we'll open up the public hearing. Well, first invite the applicant to come forward, using your name and address. You love the 20 minutes. A good evening, Mayor, council members, David Millage for the record 14 Southeast Forest Street up over a town. I wanna thank staff for their presentation. I have a presentation. I do not have anything to add, but be happy to answer any questions that the council might have. All right, thank you, council members, any questions? Ms. Anclis. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Miller, I support this resolution and I support, you know, we voted to allow athletic training facilities in LARP in 2023. I think at that time, this facility was already open and operating without approval. and then it continued to operate without approval and it had a notice of violation. I'm just wondering why it took so long to come back to with the application and so I'm in support of it. I'm fine with it but I don't particularly like from my understand a prior colleague started the application They had the issue with code enforcement and they My predecessors were put together a zoning tech amendment that had to work through the process and got approved. For my understanding, they thought that at that point, they didn't need to do anything further. And then it came to light that they still had the outstay and encode violation. So then we immediately mobilized, submitted the applications, and worked through the process as quickly as we code with staff. All right, thank you. For the questions? Is there anything you'd like to add in response to my question, Mr. Millage? For my understanding, and Mr. Donaldson can come up here and provide his opinion. But the reduction in the parking based off the technical deviation was pretty much 99% relating to the warehouse use, unlike a traditional warehouse that would have more activity, more tenants that are utilizing the space for this, I believe 11,000 square feet or so out of warehouse, there's only one tenant who's also the owner of the building. So based off of that reduced intensity created by the use justified the reduction. Thank you. Mr. Thomason. Yes, our John Donaldson 1-277-34 still. Yes, we reduced for the one tenant, basically stores his cars in there. There's also a slight reduction, I think at two or three spaces, for shared parking between the training facility and the office use. That's how we got down to the 1-27. All right, thank you. Yes, sir. For the questions? Right, this is the public hearing. still open, anyone else wishing to speak on this matter? All right, but I presume this is Yes sir for the questions right this is a public hearing still open anyone else wishing to speak on this matter All right, but I presume Mr. Miller you do not want to cross examine Mr. Donaldson or the other They are indicating no so we will close and Mr. Miller should know rebuttal or summation No, he's indicating no so we will close a public hearing and we'll entertain a motion to adopt first resolution 39-2020-25. You're here motion. So moved. I'll give it to Ms. Drucker. Second. Thank you. Any further discussion on 39-2020-25? All right, Ms. Hiddens, please. Thompson? Yes. Singer? Yes. Wickeder? Yes. Drucker? Yes. Wellacklis. Yes. Motion passes five votes to zero. Very well. And we'll take a resolution 40, 20, 25. Do you hear a motion? So moved. Second. Very good. Any further discussion on this one? Seeing none, Ms. Ins please? Singer. Yes. Wicked. Yes. Drucker. Yes. Dr. Cure. Yes. Nacclus. Yes. Thompson. Yes. Motion passes five votes to zero. Very well. That concludes item 11. We'll now turn to item 12 on our agenda, regular public hearings, and I'll ask Ms. Siddins to read the title of ordinance 5727. Ornance number 5727. An ordinance of the City of Boca Raton authorizing the City Manager and City Clerk to execute and non-exclusive construction and demolition, C&D, debris collection and disposal services franchise agreement with rapid- for a tone authorizing the city manager and city clerk to execute a non-exclusive construction and demolition, C&D. Debris collection and disposal services franchise agreement with rapid waste ink, pursuant to section 14-21 code of ordinances. Providing for severability, providing for repealer, providing an effective date. Thank you, Mr. Brown. Thank you, Mayor Lauren Burak, who is the deputy director of Public Works and Engineering. We'll make the presentation on ordinance number 5727. Ms. Burak. Good evening mayor and city council. I'm Lauren Burak, your Public Works and Engineering Deputy Director. In front of you tonight is the first reading for the WAP Rapid Waste application that was made to Public Works and Engineering for franchise hauling. It was done pursuant to section 1421 of the City Code of Ordinances. This proposed ordinance will authorize the mayor and the city clerk to execute a non-exclusive franchise agreement for construction and demolition, C&D. Collection and disposal services with Rapid Waste Inc. We currently have eight active franchise agreements for this service. This one would be make it the ninth. As part of this agreement along with all the other haulers, the new vendor will pay an annual fee to the city plus 15% of their monthly gross revenues. For perspective, the total revenue for C&D franchise operators from last fiscal year was $957,000. This application met the minimum requirements that forth in the city's code of ordinances, section 14-21. Therefore, our staff recommends this ordinance. Thank you, Councillor Mourdes. Any questions? We'll open up the public hearing. Anyone wishing to speak on this matter? Please come forward now. Last call for public hearing. We will close the public hearing, and we'll entertain a motion to adopt ordinance 5727. Is there a move? Second. Thank you, motion by Vagueter. Second by Drucker. Any further discussion? Then missidens please. Drucker? Yes. Nacquist? Yes. Thompson? Yes. Yes. Yes. to zero. Very well. We'll now turn to item B. Thank you. Ordinance 5728. Would you please read the title? Ordinance number 50. Yes, waiter. Yes, singer. Yes motion passes five votes to zero very well. We'll now turn to item B ordinance 5728 would you please read the title ordinance number 5728 and ordinance of the city of Bokaritone amending the personnel rules and regulations to amend the employment policies and benefits provided to city employees providing for severability providing for a peeler providing for inclusion in the city's personnel rules and regulations providing an effective date. Thank you, Mr. Ren. Thank you Mayor Daniel Olson. Our human resources director will make the presentation on orders number 5728. Ms. Olson. Thank you, Mr. Ren and Mayor and Council. The latest amendments that you have in front of you of the city's personal rules and regulations are designed in part to address employee concerns that were highlighted in the recent engagement survey in addition to modernizing practices, improving clarity and ensuring alignment with current practices held here in the city. Overall, the update's improved readability and support and employee friendly workplace reinforcing the city's commitment to best practices. Staff recommends adoption of the ordinance and I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have. Thank you, Council members, any questions? There were some technical minor cleanups. Could you just elaborate a little bit more on the substance that changes for the public? Yes, so the document had not had a wholesale change in quite some time. We have made modifications based on employment laws and some other benefits that were changed, but there were current practices that hadn't been outlined. So we had provided as part of the backup itemization of where those were. Modernization of language, there was some capitalization in the document, and we didn't feel that fit the tone of how we want to speak to our employees within a document like that. And those were the predominant types of changes that were in the document. All right, thank you for the questions. All right, well, I'll put up the public hearing. Anyone wishing to speak on this matter? Please come forward. All right, we'll close the public hearing. We'll entertain a motion to adopt ordinance 5728. So moved. Thanks, Echin. Thank you, any further discussion. I'll just say I've got faith in Mr. Brown to ensure that we, the staff reporting to him, is executing on the vision set forth by the council. And I think these changes there are consistent to ensure accountability and the move we need to go forward as is the direction you're setting and we are hoping to communicate across the board so the residents can expect results. All right thank you. With that, Miss Inns, please. Wigdard. Yes. Thompson. Yes. Singer. Yes. Naclas. Yes. Drucker. Motion passes five votes to zero. Very well. We'll now take up ordinance 5731 school's own speed detection systems. Would you please read the title. in its number number 5731. And ordnance of the city of Boca Raton, creating chapter 16 traffic and vehicles, Article five, school zone speed detection systems, code of ordinances, authorizing the implementation of school zone speed detection systems, designating school zones subject to heightened enforcement, establishing enforcement and hearing procedures, designating a local hearing officer, providing for installation, operation, and public notification requirements, providing for filing of the state as required by law, providing for severability, providing for a peeler, providing for codification, providing an effective date. Thank you, Mr. Brown. Thank you, Mayor Zach Beer. Public Works and Engineering Director will make the presentation ordinance number 5731. Thank you Mr. Beard. Yes good evening Mayor and City Council this evening I'm going to do a brief recap of what we presented at the introduction to the ordinance at the previous meeting and really quick the agenda for this evening is just the enforcement of school zones using speed detection systems and then a brief update about Florida bike month to help continue to promote those activities. And really general overview, it's citations for issued for speeds, 10 miles an hour over posted speed on school days and the only operational element is from morning flashing lights through the day ending after the afternoon flashing in school zones on school days and this the reason staff investigated this is in incorporation with the city's past vision zero goal and a staff evaluating those school zones which we identified in a phased approach. So we're showing phase one of a two phase program identifying the schools you see up on the screen for the initial phase of the implementation as part of this program. And with that, just wanted to show some background because in the state statute identified a heightened risk at school zones and staff was able to utilize the existing data that was available in our Vision Zero Action Plan, showing our high entry crash network and RGIS data to establish those areas with a heightened safety risk. And then really recapping on Florida bike month, I highlighted in a different color. The city is working with Addison Meisner, reached out to the principal of that school, and it's moving forward with a pilot program that is going to morph into a bicycle rodeo, which is really an important educational campaign for our residents and locals to promote bike safety. And so with that, I wanted to make sure we highlight it's not a public event. It's going to be for school students, but it provides the staff an opportunity to understand the process and really get better to come back before you in May with a full-scale bike rodeo. And so also just notifying those other dates a few have passed, but there's still opportunities to participate in bike month and we encourage all residents to take actions and complete activities related to bicycle safety and promotion. And with that, I'd be happy to answer any questions. Thank you, Councilmember. Excuse me, Councilmember's any questions? There's an act list. No questions, I just want to thank you for the work that you did to get those events going for for bike month and also I'm looking very much looking forward to the bike rodeo and me. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Could you go back a couple slides, please? The one about what we're planning. Yes, thank you. This one. Could you talk a little bit more about the second bullet? What time, what time range specifically? So when we have the morning flashing lights on, it's only going to be having citations when the lights are flashing for the public. So that's a really good question. No, the flashing duration only begins at the first time of operation. And then it goes through the school period, which if it returns to a normal speed limit, I will use a general example being that if the regular speed was 35 miles and the reduced speed zone was 15, then during school zone times, the reduced speed, if the person was 10 over the school zone, they would receive a citation. But at the intermediate time between the morning and afternoon, if in the event that they sped through the school zone, enforcement action could be taken up through the end of the day when the flashing returned and then was concluded. And I would also say there's some operational elements that we're going to have to understand, because certain school zones, I'll use blue lake for example, have middle school and elementary school times and there's also different days of operations. So as staff works with the implementation team, we're going to have to figure out what those times are and certainly notify the public well in advance of moving into the citation stage because our goal through talking through the police department is education and safety, not issuing citations. Obviously that's an important component but that's not the goal of this operation. We could, at our last meeting when we discussed this, I throughout a few ideas to try to help us get more coverage on schools earlier and one of the things we discussed possibly was focusing only on the time where the flashers are going to reduce the amount of time that have to be reviewed by an appropriate enforcement officer. Have we considered that as a part of the rollout that you're limiting it to those hours and say I'm just picking times, seven and nine in the morning, two to four in the afternoon, when the lights are on, in my hypothetical nine to two, not focusing on that primarily and getting it more coverage on schools. I think that's a possible benefit, but as far as an accelerated implementation, I think from staff's detailed review that we've done throughout the process, our biggest challenge is gonna be infrastructure installation. There's elements that we have to coordinate as far as certain vendors offer solar programs to be able to complete the installations, but there's still physical infrastructure that has to be laid out and then tested within the right away. And so from that perspective, in order to manage that process and ensure that we're working through the vendor for permitting installation observation. I think that's probably from a timeline perspective, the more challenging element versus the specific times of enforcement. All right. I mentioned this because I only saw during the break an email I received during the first part of the meeting that I saw the recess. So I'm not trying to surprise you. I just got it. Apparently, are you aware that Manatee County and Palm Bay both recently paused some of their implementation of the project that they this program that they started back in 2024? I'm aware that many different agencies are in various stages of this program and I think from staff's perspective we're going to do our best to be very careful about how we implemented and really ensure that as we navigate the process, we're going to continue to reach out to partner agencies and get as much information as we can. A good practice. All right. Ms. Rucker first. Thank you for the presentation. Can you go to think of slide five with just the timing for the public? I think it was like that you had like, not the last slide, the one before the last slide I believe it was. I think the one before you had five. Sorry. Sorry. So yes, just want to make sure because I've received some feedback and some emails and I also got the email that Mr. Singer got earlier today. And really we're doing this from an education. So there's additional stakeholder community who works also be conducted in late March. We're going to be communicating to the residents, the process, obviously at the beginning. It's not citation. The goal of this program is to raise awareness in school zones where people are speeding or we have distracted drivers. And I use this example. It's the one that I spoke to today, which is not with these cameras. But in Palm Beach, we did this at the stations, at the railroad stations, where we were sending citations. They were in real citations that were just warning, telling people, you shouldn't be stopping on the tracks. And it had a lot of good traction. I think over 7,000 were sent out, and less people are stopping on the tracks in that particular area of Palm Beach because we're able to monitor this through GSI and through all these other different technology tools. So the real goal here, and I think that the purpose of this legislation was to make sure that we don't A, are not speeding through school zones and B people are not distracted and to Mayor Singer's point I asked at the last meeting about the timing about because that's a long time if you're doing it before the flashing lights and after the flashing lights and we have to communicate that to the people but the bottom line is that I guess for the high schools they have even though people get out certain time, they have kids crossing the streets at all times. I happen to live close to a middle school and a high school and very close to elementary school. So the time zones are going pretty much all the time at any time that I'm leaving. And I think there was a statistic used, and I don't have the exact number that if you get one time you get a ticket, whether it's you take a traffic lie, whether you don't stop at a stop sign, whether you're speeding, the next time you're more aware, I'm not to do that. So I'm really looking forward to seeing this project come to fruition and to continue to keep our public safe. Thanks. The question? Mr. Wreger. Thank you. I agree with Mr. Drucker. Thank you. I agree with Ms. Drucker. I think the uses of technology here to help us. The question? Mr. Wader. Thank you. I agree with Mr. Drucker. I think the uses of technology here to help us not just do enforcement, but education, I think, are critical. But more importantly, the data that it could provide, just this slide is great in terms of the fact that it has crashed data. to be, do you think that even on those hours where there might be no citations issued, can the speed detection systems be used for data gathering to basically, essentially capture our own data saying, okay, people are speeding, it's not a school zone after 9am or something like that, but we could start to pinpoint saying, Hey, people are speeding, you know, it's not a school zone after 9 a.m. or something like that, but we could start to, you know, pinpoint saying, hey, people are speeding, you know, people are speeding at this street or this street right next to a school, you know, as soon as the light school off, just as, you know, an information gathering, and not that we're, you know, going to be doing a citation there, but that could lead to information that we could relate to our enforcement division or our police department is saying, hey, which we do from citizen engagement, right? When they say, oh, these people are speeding down Yamato or speeding down Palmetto or, you know, the noisy mufflers dragging or something like that. You know, is there opportunities here? Do you think that we could, you know, use some of this data, you know, to start to get innovative, you know, in our other enforcement techniques. Yeah, I think of course our school zones are really important areas within the city. And so we've already been evaluating what's our way to maximize this installation, one just being traffic counts. So we've heard from other agencies that they've utilized the data to start enhancing their traffic counts throughout the year, instead of having to deploy some of the elements that we have to really seeing that. And then also some of the vendors offer license plate readers. So there's other elements in law enforcement that may utilize this system to additionally add to their ability to conduct law enforcement activities. Yeah, I think it's just, I do think it's in the, we're still in the beginning stages of this thing where eventually this data will start talking with AI to your traffic signals and, you know, being able to sequence better, which will be able to help people across the streets more safely. And we're just at the cutting edge of this innovative technology. So I appreciate all the hard work getting us to this point. And like I said, I do believe it's the beginning. Very important step. We would like to have it done as soon as possible. But it's very important as it said on one of the slides, pilot program to get it started. And let's do so right away. Thank you. All right, thank you. Mr. Keller, I think you wanted to make a clarifying comment. I just wanted to add some color to Mr. Pierce's comment. The legislature was very careful in this authorizing legislation to ensure that there would be data privacy and certain privacy concerns. So they did put in the statute and our ordinance does reflect that the data is to be used to enforce school zone speed limits and not use for remote surveillance. There are some incidental law enforcement activities that are permissible if done incidental to the underlying speed detection system. So, sort of general surveillance type activities are expressly prohibited by the statute and our ordinance. Thank you. All right, thank you. Did you have any questions, Anaclas? So, Mr. Thompson, thank you. Thank you, Dr. Curtis. Let me just jump onto the last point that Mr. Ker just made, which is kind of ancillary law enforcement uses. I believe some of the proprietors of this technology in addition to speed detection also offer sound detection, meaning levels of sound generated by what one commentator calls death racers in town. So we may want to look at that and so long as it's permissible see if we can incorporate that into something that we're installing here. That's just one issue. I'm in support of this ordinance, this is by thinking no brainer, but because the presentation had to do with kind of a combination of bike month and speeding and it was released as school zones. I want to bring up an issue that maybe it's a Mr. Beer question, but it may also be police services question, which is e-bikes. E-bikes are not your traditional bikes, which we're gonna have, you know, the bike rodeo for e-bikes are significantly faster and potentially more dangerous and have had some ill effects in other parts of South Florida as we saw Somebody passed away recently a child driving an e-bike passed away I believe it was in Jupiter and that follows on the heels of one that happened in Naples not long before So it may be worth us having a workshop on what our regulations call for what kinds of things we have in place now for were the regulations relating to e-bikes versus e- motorcycles which are faster still, and having maybe a discussion on what safety precautions we can take as a community to help make sure that we're not in a position like Jupiter finds itself in where young people have been passing away because of incidents involving these two things. So perhaps that's something we can add to, not related to this ordinance, but you brought up bike months. So I figured we could add this and maybe have a discussion on what kind of safety regulations are in place or should be in place relative to those devices. Thank you. So I saw the article too on Manatee County and I've read there's been lots on Facebook if you just search school zone cameras. All kinds of information comes up and comments and most of the comments that I see are about signage and people saying that they just weren't aware. I mean to me I'm saying there's speed limit signs to go to speed limit and you'll be aware. But they weren't aware that the cameras were activated. So I know we make our own signs and we have the ability to create the signage right for what we'll be doing and I'm sure that you'll roll that out with plenty of notice for people and again earlier I went over all the ways people can get alerted to what things were doing in the city so I'm sure you know hopefully we can push out information that so everybody's aware that that these cameras are going in and nobody's going to be surprised about them going in. But that was the biggest issue that I saw that people were saying. There's not enough signage. It wasn't clear, especially when you're saying, from the time the lights start flashing through the time the lights aren't flashing at the end of the day, just as long as we're clear with all that. And I would also be, I know the town of Jupiter, since it was now brought up, the town of Jupiter is doing a town hall tomorrow on eBike safety. And I had spoken to Mr. Beer about, hopefully, during National Bike Month that we could do even a bigger thing, you know, basically about eBikes and road road safety and co-existing with all different kinds of micro mobility, because I also see scooters that are going 20, 25 miles an hour on the sidewalks, as well as e-bikes going that fast too. And I know there's different levels of e-bikes, and you don't have to have a license to ride any bike. So I think that discussion is a good workshop discussion and hopefully we can get something like that done in May for National Bike Month. Mr. Rager, you know the great great bringing it up I think it all touches on the umbrella of Vision Zero on all of these things that we're we're talking about and obviously the e-bike discussion is a long time coming. It's tragic that things have to happen to initiate real conversations. But it's important. I know from my time years ago on the Bike and Pedestrian Committee that years ago we started talking about this and obviously all the engineers and volunteers that are on our own bike and pedestrian committee, they do talk about this a lot that bikes are, you know, if they're class one vehicles, you know, the max speed is 20 miles an hour, they're not supposed to go, you know, in certain places and otherwise they're supposed to act like motor vehicles. There's Florida Statues specifically about this. Of course, again, it goes to education. It goes to, you know, informing people and it goes to also working to have this connected, you know, shared use trail, you know, as well to give people an opportunity, especially with Tri-Rail and Brightline, you know, you see people bring their scooters off of the Brightline Tri-Rail to do their last mile logistics and that's going to be a phenomenon that occurs more often, not less often. So, you know, we've got to kind of get up with the times as well and plan accordingly. Of course, in the consent agenda, we just glanced over it, but one of the items that was approved in the consent agenda was lighting the El Rio Trail. And so again, giving people an opportunity to more safely traverse on a shared-use trail rather than a busy, you know, intersection is again just another aspect of this Vision Zero umbrella, and this is just another, you know, it's just another notch to do so. So, yeah, I appreciate the great conversation here on awareness. And of course, Mr. Slasberg here and everything that happened with distracted drivers and whatnot, we have a real kind of safety kind of pattern that's really, there's a strong focus right now on that. So let's keep that momentum going. Thank you. Ms. Drucker, and then a little bit of the public hearing. It says we're here. And I appreciate that with the scooters. Maybe we can also address golf carts, because we know that's something that we're seeing. I'm seeing them more and more on the sidewalks, the people with the golf carts on the sidewalk, so we can add that. But Mr. Beers here, we have a lot of people in the audience that are transit champions. I just came back from Washington, DC, from my transportation community that I sit on the national level. And they're talking a lot about railroad safety and acts. And when I, as we approach strategic planning, I want this council to start giving it some thought because I want to put forward some policy so that we're able to pass the policies so that we're able to get grant monies. And I know we're still continuing to chase grant dollars, but there's a lot of funding for real-risk safety. Our Vice President is real big on real-road safety act on the real authorization of that at the federal level because of the issue that happened in Ohio with DeRailman, although that was different because it was cargo. But there is still money coming to the cities for real-risk safety. And one of the things that I was privy to see when I was up there was just like we have on our crosswalks where we have like 5, 10, 20, you know, the countdown that in certain states and in certain cities they're putting in those kind of numbers on the railroad safe so that people know that the train has passed, but 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, until the gate will open and it gives you the timing. Because we know people are stopping on the tracks, people are crossing the tracks, people are going around the rails. So hopefully we can't, I don't know the cost of this, I spoke to Mr. Beer, but hopefully as we continue through our process and our, and trying to tame Vision Zero, we can look into some of this technology that could potentially save lives. So I just wanted to put it out there so we can start thinking about that as we continue and we work towards strategic planning and Vision Zero goes. Thank you. Thank you. All right. At this point we'll open up the public hearing. I've received two cards from Irving Slonsberg and Jason Norton. If you'd like to come forward, please give your name and address. You know, vote for three minutes. Welcome. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you commissioners and staff. I'm Erbs Lasberg and you know, when I was younger, my mother once said to me, you can't fight City Hall. Well, I took it to another level. 1996 my daughter died in the car crash. I ran for office in 2000 and against all odds. I won the election. I went to Tallahassee. And I either enhanced all the traffic laws. I put new traffic laws on the books. And the seat belt laws, named after my daughter, Dory, Pest in 2009. And the over here it takes like 10 or 15 years to get stuff done, but between myself and my daughter we got stuff done. And right now there's an epidemic here in Palm Beach County and the United States and the world. And the epidemic isn't about speeding. No more people are speeding today than they used to speed. It's not about drinking. No more people are drinking. It's not about getting high. It's all about distracted driving. And so the question comes down to, what are we going to do about it? We're sitting here talking about speeding, and that's not where it's at. I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm the number one advocate of traffic safety in the state of Florida, and probably in the United States. I have a 501-C3 that I'm the chairman of for 24 years. And like last month, we were at Boca High and talking to 4,000 kids and we're out at all the schools, all the time for 24 years. And you know, it's the same problem. It's distracted driving, distracted driving, distracted driving. Okay, well, you know, like I represent the principals of the schools, and I represent the teachers, you know what their number one issue is? Cell phones, number one issue. In the lines, you got 100, 200 parents or guardians waiting to pick up their kids, and you know what they're all doing? They're all on their cell phones. And I want to thank the council for passing a resolution about hands free in all areas of the state of Florida. But I just want to let you know, give you a little history. The difference between a primary and a secondary law is a secondary law means that you can only get stopped for something else, which means nobody stops you. Well, I passed the secondary law for texting and driving 10 years ago. About five years ago or maybe four years ago, my daughter Emily passed the law that says, no texting and driving, and hands-free in school zones, hands-free in construction zone. It's a primary law. The question comes down to, what are we gonna do about it in our area here? I mean, this is critical. We're talking about speeding. Well, are we going to enforce the current traffic laws and the current traffic laws is all about distracted driving and hands free driving and the question I have to ask everyone is Are people gonna get tickets for distracted driving and it's a primary law? Mr your time's elapsed if you'd wrap up, but I will have a question for you to go up a little more time to talk after that. Okay, well, currently I don't know if you know the law, but the law is, you can't be on your phone in a school zone. And so here we are talking about speeding in the school zone. The question is, are we going to give tickets for people on their phone? Because let me tell you something, I surveyed the principles. This is their number one issue. Thank you, Mr. Slausburg. On that, I'll ask a question, because we'll have Mr. Brown respond at the end of public comment on that, on our enforcement efforts Do you have a position on whether this council should you were you were saying the issue is I think you're saying the issue is more distracted driving. Mr. Mayor I'll give you the answer to your question. I know the where the bones are. I have 25 years of experience in this. Here's the problem with the law. The problem with the law is going to be that you're never gonna, unless you have a great plan to get the word out to every single parent and everyone in the community and besides the 100,000 people here in Boka, you got 500,000 visitors. So you got to get the word out to everyone. And if you don't do that, what's going to happen is what happened last time. And here's what happened last time. The cities and the counties became money grobbers. That's it. And they threw everything out. And they said, no. The legislature knocked it all out because there was too many complaints from the community. And you know what? Unless you have a great plan to go. The bike riding stuff, forget about it. That's not going to do anything. You got to use the Palm Beach County schools, private schools and public schools. They've got to be notified, the parents got to be notified, or what you're going to have here. It's not only the parents, the visitors got to be notified. And then what you're going to have here is total chaos. That's what happened before. And then what happened is Tallahassee said, you know what, go home and this is like a big money fest and it's not saving any lives. So I'm not saying that I'm against it. I'm for it. Okay. As long as you can get the word out. But if you can't get the word out, you're gonna have a lot of problems. And also, along with this, we need to make sure that we don't enforce traffic laws, some of the traffic laws, and not the other ones. Why shouldn't we endorse, endorse, destructive distracted driving is our main problem and I think everyone on the council knows about this. Thank you. Noted. Thank you. Mr. Norton. Good evening. Jason Norton, 4600 Forbes Boulevard, Atlanta, Maryland. I'm from a company called Ultimate. Ultimate is one of the very few American owned and operated schools on speed companies in the industry. We've been in business for a couple decades and we operate in 10 different states. All of our clients, employees, offices, and warehouses are here in the United States. Not matters because we design and assemble our equipment for maximum flexibility and we also do not outsource our processing as you've talked about privacy concerns. We were Florida's first school zone speed vendor, first to sign a contract with the city, first to sign a contract with the county, first to issue wardings, first issue citations, first to use solar to power the program and first to utilize a trailer for an expedited deployment. First to launch free license plate readers separate for the privacy and as the law and first to start a program here in South Florida. So I applaud your efforts to consider the school's own speed program. Personally, I've been doing this for 20 years, technically 19 years, 10 months and a half, it'll be 20 in May. So I thought I'd just quickly share some thoughts and best practices. First, it will work. So if done properly, we'd love to have your business, but no matter who you go with, if it's done properly, this program will work and it will reduce the speed in your school zones. Second, as I've heard the theme tonight and this gentleman just said, don't count on the revenue. You may not hear every vendor say that, but do not count on the revenue. There will be violator fine revenue come in, but don't budget any long term projects with it. If you want to buy bicycle helmets, if you want to pay for countdowns at railroad crossings, that's fine. These one-time purchases, but this program will work and the revenue will go away, which is what you want. Third, and I think this is the big one for the program. I know there's consideration to get your program up and running by the start of school, but I urge you not to focus on how fast you can start a program, but how well you can start a program. It's important. Already in here in Florida, you've already mentioned two programs shut down, one hit pause, neither were ours, by the way. But I believe this was, you know, based on my experience, it was too much, too fast in those programs. As mentioned, one of the things that I really believe in, we do well. As mentioned by the gentleman before and several of you, is the public education and information campaign. It's, you have to be very transparent about your program. When we would launch a program, we'd launch a press conference with our partners if they're willing and it makes a difference. We design and print postcards and the police literally stand at the schools for pickup and drop off and they hand them to every parent coming through. Speed cameras are coming, speed cameras are coming, slow down so you're aware. Lastly, what we don't do in Florida, one thing we don't do is we don't go after the big programs. We didn't bid on Miami, we didn't go after Miami-Dade, We didn't bid on Tampa, we didn't bid on Orlando, and you wonder why? It's because we want to be a partner. We want to be a partner with you. We didn't bid on Miami, we didn't go after Miami-Dade, we didn't bid on Tampa, we didn't bid on Orlando, and you wonder why? It's because we want to be a partner. We want to be a partner with you, we want you to consider a sub partner. So when Miami-D calls in, Orlando calls in, Tampa calls in, and Boca calls in, you have to wonder, who's going to get the return phone call first? Could you please conclude? In conclusion, thank you very much. I'm happy to answer any questions of you. I have anything kids. In some ways I have no blind in this game. My name is Jonathan Washington, 98 Southwest 12th Terrace, and I'll be up front. I have no kids. In some ways I have no bite in this game, but I do live around Addison, Myzner School, and because of the way my work schedule is, I get a chance to see what happens around that area every single day, every single school day. One of the things that we've had happen in our area, I mean, as most of you know in the Boatcus Square area, we haven't had any growth as far as new homes, but we have had significant growth as far as the number of cars that are going through our area. And especially with the changes of the schools now, or in schools and the times, we've, you know, that just adds extra traffic into that area. I support this. I think it's a great program. When I heard Miami was doing this, I think it was about a month ago, the analysis, I thought this is great. What I didn't particularly like or what I didn't think made sense was that they were looking at 10 miles over the speed limit. I thought that's kind of high for a school zone. But if there's the opportunity, maybe to say, oh, at five miles an hour, we're going to send warning tickets out to everybody. Maybe that's something to consider. Here's some things that do concern me, though. And many of your school zone areas, you have feeder streets. And those people that come in from the feeder streets, you may be guests into our areas, are not familiar that they're going into a school zone and they may come in in the middle of where the warning is. So I would like to suggest that if you can come up whether it's lighting systems or signs if you're going to do this do something that helps our guests that are in the area know that they're putting themselves into that situation. The other thing I'd like to consider, it's separate from this, but especially in the Addison Mines or Area, I know that you've already, or someone's already come in and expanded the school zone. We have so many students that come in from the south side of Bocca Square area, but that school zone stops before, what is it, Favineau? Or I'm sorry, Fort Street. And the same thing happens on the north side. So the school zone's really compressed, but when you take a look at where all of our students are crossing, they're crossing into very congested automobile areas. And I think personally, they ought to expand that school zone. And you ought to also take a look at communal real and possibly putting a slow down area coming up into 12th Avenue and communal real to get cars to slow down and the students an opportunity to be able to cross very safely. That's all I have to say thank Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak? Mr. Saul, welcome. We've installed from 639Avalon. Point and Woodfield and a number of different houses. I'm in favor of the technology, we're a technology company, but could I ask a question? How are you going to identify the car if you're not using an LPR? Mr. Saul, welcome here. We'll answer the question at the end so you get the full three minutes. Okay. The next comment, next question would be, is this part of the program to reduce the amount of police at each one of the schools? Because I drive a lot in Boca during school hours. I'm hopefully very cautious about it, but I do notice that there seems to be a police officer, or at least one of their vehicles at every school. My hope would be that it would not, is that we don't remove the police in favor of the technology. Thank you. All right, thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak? Last call on this item. Oh. Hello, I'm Angela Maisie. I live at 2.42 North with 64th Street in Boca Raton. I also mentioned previously that I work at FAU, I work in student health and I deal with a lot of students coming in with injuries from bicycle accidents, traffic accidents, scooter accidents. Many times are international students. So I think that using other methods to help slow cars down would be also in order and not just using automation. I have a interest in making sure that privacy is protected as mentioned by Council. So I wanted to just put my input into there too. That I'm not really a fan of the cameras issuing tickets in lieu of police officers issuing tickets. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak? Last call on this item. All right, we'll close the public comment. Mr. Rear, would you like to respond to some of the questions? Some were pretty factual and straight up. Yeah, I'd be happy to answer the factual questions regarding the feeder streets that we got in response to that comment. The staff has to follow the MUTCD, which is set at the federal and state level and there's also a speed zone manual that's produced by the FDOT. And so our traffic engineers are mandated to follow that by the state and establish school zones that meet that criteria. And then also install the necessary signage related to that. So school zones are a very highly regulated designation and there's a certain manual to follow to establish a school zone, its length, its scale. And also just wanted to note for Addison Meiser specifically, as the school was reconstructed staff and through the development team re-evaluated that school zone as part of it. So it wasn't just moved arbitrarily. It was part of an evaluation process of the new Addison Niger School construction is how that school zone was established. Thank you. And then Mr. Stollard asked about the license plate reader. I think the point was we are you the technology is there. It's limited to this purpose and it's limited generally but used for this purpose. Yes, but I would also note that there is a human person at all times that is evaluating this, so the detection happens, but there is either a trained citation enforcement civil servant that has the appropriate certification, the police department would fully answer that question, or a certified law enforcement officer that would review the footage and then issue a citation. So the camera is not automating a citation, it is not issued. The law enforcement officer is utilizing the technology to supplement their ability and I have heard a lot of that. It's a great opportunity to acknowledge. This is, main thing is don't speed in school zones. That's not safe. So the police is not going to stop enforcing in other school zones. This is going to afford them the opportunity to add resources in those other areas, and they could, PD will be enforcing as they do in all the school zones throughout the city. So I did want to make sure I noted that it's not just specific to these. This is a supplemental resource to provide enhanced capabilities for our law enforcement officers. Thank you, Mr. Brown. A question for you. I understand it's staff's intention to proceed with a piggyback on one of the existing Florida contracts that exists That's correct in order to expedite the process very good Are we evaluating all the factors including some raised by the mr. Norton? We're looking at all the factors to make sure we're that we're getting an expeditious Good deal right, but also I was going to ask specifically about the notice provisions today I don't know if all the vendors use the same provisions in terms of getting out notices, postcards, that sort of thing. I'm not sure about the specifics of the notice provisions. If the contract would require that we have officers handing out notices, I'd be concerned about the impact on our resources. Right. Right. And then just speaking about police officer, it's not the intent for us to reduce our police presence in any of the schools. Absolutely not. The speed cameras would be an enhancement of our ability to enforce a law that everyone is supposed to be obeying in the first place. I just as a commentary, I find it a sad commentary that people would complain that they got a ticket because somebody didn't tell them that they shouldn't be speeding in a school zone. It's just, you know, it's very difficult. We'll do our best to, and we will do our best to provide ample warning to people that they should remember that they're supposed to abide by the rules. Thank you. Any further questions? Just a double down in that comment, which is I appreciate the statute requires us to inform people that this is happening, but there are two forms of warnings already. There's posted signs saying this is a school zone. There's also flashing lights. So I'm not terribly sympathetic to that. Now, should we educate people? sure should they be aware that this is coming sure? But remember, we've been telling them that already. Thank you for the comments, questions? All right, at this point, we'll entertain a motion to adopt ordinance, excuse me, resolution 5731 during your motion. So moved. I'll give that to Ms. Neckless this time. Second by Mr. Thompson. Any further discussion on, I'm sorry's listed both ways its ordinance 5731. Thank you. Yes Any further discussion on this ordinance all right then miss it is please Nackles yes, Wickeder Yes, Drucker. Yes, Singer. Yes, Thompson. Yes motion passes five votes to zero. All right. Thank you Very good. We'll now proceed to resolution at 37 20, the interlocal agreement with Palm Beach County for the local option gas tax. Resolution 37, 2025, a resolution of the city of Boca Raton authorizing the city manager and city clerk to execute an interlocal agreement with Palm Beach County to re-determine, re-adopt, and ratify the existing distribution formula for the six-cent local option fuel tax, providing for severability, providing for a peeler, providing an effective date. Thank you, Mr. Brown. Thank you, Ms. Siddins, the title that is basically what this resolution does that renews an agreement from 1995 that expires this coming August. the formula the county, two-thirds of the guess fuel tax goes to the county and one-third goes to eligible incorporated municipalities. We received our pro-radish air base upon 70% of our lane miles and 30% of population. And our distribution is approximately 2.3 million in transportation fund revenues annually. And staff recommends approval of resolution. Thank you. Any questions or discussion? Then we'll open up the public hearing on this matter. Anyone wishing to speak on resolution 37, 2025 last call. will close the public hearing will entertain a motion to adopt resolution 37 2025 So moved second. Thank you. Any discussion? I'm glad that I believe a more fair Distribution of funds should be negotiated between counties and cities and given where we are in the history here I think I have little vote choice but to vote for this because it's better than turning it down. However, I would recommend to our consideration next year as part of our legislative priorities to work more with the League of Cities on at more equitable distributions. We often see this with sales tax and other revenues and I think that this is an issue that there's more scrutiny. I think there could be more, I think the formulas could be T tweet, and they would be more equitable. Nevertheless, this is still better than the option of no. So I will vote yes. Any further discussion? All right. Miss Siddons, please. Thompson? Yes. Singer? Yes. Wickeder? Yes. Drucker? Yes. necklace. Yes. Motion passes to five votes to zero. All right. Thank you. That concludes item 12. We have no regular public hearings for settlements. So I'll open the floor first to public requests. And I've got a number of cards and thank you for you. Those of you who have been patient to go sit through them all. I don't know if you're all still here. As I say to everyone, if you can't attend the meeting in person, and you can always communicate with us other ways too. And the first individual that you said would be here, Kevin Jasner. I don't know if you can't attend the meeting in person, you can always communicate with us other ways too. And the first individual that you said would be here, Kevin Jasner. I don't know if you're here. Mr. Jasner. And when you start, just give your name and address please. Thanks. No, this is it. Got it. Got it. Good evening, Mayor, Deputy Mayor and members of the City Council of Boca Raton. I'm Kevin J. Answer, 3050 Windsor Place here in Voka. I brought this issue to the attention of the Community Advisory Panel last month and they suggested that I bring it directly to the City Council members. It concerns the harmful health and environmental impacts of gasoline, leaf blowers on residents and guests of our community. Since it's hard to cover all of this in three minutes, I had sent to each of you and to the city manager a detailed memo concerning the huge and negative impacts of these leaf blowers a few weeks ago. Gasoline leaf blowers are so noisy, so polluting, and so objectionable that the entire state of California and more than 200 municipalities across our country have either completely banned or severely limited their use. This includes Washington, DC, and it includes many communities here in Florida and South Florida, Naples, Palm Beach, Miami Beach, Keybiscane, and South Miami. The truth is, there are huge negative impacts from the use of these gasoline leaf blowers, and I'll go through them very, very quickly, and highlight just a few of their detrimental effects. The noise is incredible. These things are loud, and the sound bothers all of us on a regular basis. They can cause permanent hearing loss. They affect the impact of our children playing outside. They affect us indoors on a regular basis. And I think many of us have heard them worrying outside of our houses and our businesses on a regular basis, keeping us from enjoying dinner or keeping us from enjoying or contemplating our next work. Their noisy environments can cause serious health complications as well. They also are incredible air polluters causing serious respiratory disease. The first line there gas gas lowers emit 23 times more carbon monoxide and 300 times more hydrocarbons than a Ford Raptor truck. And at the speed of 180 miles an hour they erode top soil and they the particles that they emit worse in respiratory conditions like asthma allergies and COPD. And of course it's not just air pollution, it's water pollution as well. They reduce the trash ends up in our waterways promoting algae blooms and causing serious illness. The truth is there's even a social equity issue here as well as the people who are using this equipment may not understand the deleterious effects and may not be able to speak up on their behalf. I hope you will consider banning these as many other cities have, at least by starting an educational process and determining what would be the next steps for our city, including possibly utilizing alternate equipment, electric leaf boars are much safer, or even rakes and brooms are a much better way to settle this problem. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you. Bob Simkins, if you're here, Andrew Dixon. Then after that Joel Rask and Angela Masea. Hi, Andrew Dixon, 299-1964th Street. I guess we all live on the old Ocean Breeze Golf Course and we heard, I guess, kind of talk. There was maybe being floated out there of I guess you guys talking to parks and racks of taking over the course and then eliminating the bond and potentially doing affordable housing so I guess I just want to take a step back and go over it kind of feels a little bit like a like a Trojan horse way for you guys to get into an equity position of owning the land. By owning the land, you've then removed the deed restriction, which then allows you to sell it to a developer to then build homes on it. So I mean, I don't know if you want, I have my three minutes. So you do, but maybe I can lay your concerns. Sure. First I've heard of anyone proposing affordable housing by the city. I think he mentioned it. I mean, I heard a meeting where you guys talked about putting like parks and whatever blah, blah, blah, blah, and at the very end, I hear affordable housing. So I don't know how you can put affordable housing in the East Boca because any housing is going to be over a million dollars there. So that, like, by definition, is not going to be affordable. So I don't know. I guess we just, my neighbors, we all just want to come out and say that, you know, if it's owned by the parks and racks, like we were kind of expecting to have some kind of park be built there, whether it's golf or whatnot. It also felt like you guys kind of knew that you were negotiating taking over the Bokeh Country Club and you had a bond on that land knowing very well that you weren't going to ever approve a golf course there. So now, you know, I mean, the parks and recs spent like millions of dollars trying to create like this bad ass golf course that you guys had no intentions of ever approving and just wasting sort of time in their money. And now I don't know, I just feel sort of like a tricky way of you guys taking over the course and then essentially give to a developer in the future. So yeah, that's it. All right, thank you Mr. Dixon. If you and your neighbors who want to speak on this issue will be you waited this long. If you wait a few minutes, the end of public comment will we'll we've got some factual responses for you there west 69th Street. I made the post on Facebook about the golf course aspect. The couple of months ago there was a comment that I mentioned for the housing. Last week, that nerve got hit again, and it hurt even harder. So immediately, I went home and started plugging away on it. I should have sat back and let those emotions go, but I didn't. And I used that as an narrative to stress urgency for people to come out here and talk with us. Because there was a fear of, as a fear of the unknown. So I want to say I'm sorry for that. I wish I would have waited and let that never come to, you know, provide a conducive environment. And that's all I could do. But like, you know, I've seen so many emails you guys do not deserve to be talked like that and you know I'm sorry for doing this to you guys. That's right, Mr. Raskin. Thank you. Thank you for that. Maybe I'll just pause now because I see some more cards from what look to be your neighbors and maybe I'll save everyone the trouble. You can free to speak now. But just. Mr. Rask, you will give you the grace because you are graceful enough to apologize. I don't know if it was necessary, but thank you anyway. I just felt that it was warranted. If it was me, I would want to apologize to me because I was not trying to attack you. It was a bad moment and I should have waited to send it out. I'm going to the beach and park to the exact same apology with them. So it's not just you guys. But I still encourage you guys to still write in to them in on a positive way though, because I feel like this creator witch hunt instead of a positive environment, and they want to hear from you guys. They want to hear what you want to see there. So that's what I really say is just, you know, still encourage them, still communicate with them. But there's always that fear of me unknown, And that's what I drew on. And I'm sorry for that. Thank you, Mr. Rask. Appreciate your kindness there. Let me just point. I'm sure of me unknown and that's what I drew on. And I'm sorry for that. Thank you, Mr. Rask. Appreciate your kindness there. Let me just pause here. I did not see an email from you. I've seen some from North Park, but I did not appreciate a few have come in the last day. This affordable housing issue. Maybe the back story is we've been discussing with the beach and park district, a separate taxing entity. their request for us to take over the bond. And Mr. Brown, maybe you can elaborate on how that ties in our recreation services and why we have not discussed our tip-putting housing there. For the record, the city owns the land now. The city has owned that land since it was no longer owned by ocean breeze. The Beach and Park District is paying off a bond that we took out on that land, and the original intention was that when they finished paying off that bond, that would become their land. Greater Bocharton Beach and Park District in the city are in discussions for the city to take over the bond payments, finished paying the land, and for us to work together for recreation uses on the property at Boca Tica, Ocean Breeze, North Park. Recreation uses. I've had individual discussions with the members of the Beach and Park District, and the only discussions have been about recreation uses, not about housing of any kind. There is no plan or discussion of us engaging with a private developer to turn the land over to them at some point in the future. We are hoping that we will be able to create at the recreation land. In addition to what the Beach and Park District has already programmed for the east side of second Avenue On the west side of second Avenue in aquatics complex escape park and a field house Those are things that we're presently looking at with the beach and park district All of that planning will go through the normal public Process will need be approved by both the beach and park District and the City and we will probably work together on the Construction of those facilities in other words share in their development and the City will operate them for the Beach and Park District So that's that that's exactly what's what's going on there is no discussion of housing Thank you and Mr. Dixon we can talk offline the history about golf at Boca T, excuse me, at yes, at Boca T, because it's not as complex or it's not, it's not as you think. In fact, the city painstakingly offered to pay the entire cost to build a Gulf course back in 2019. The Beach and Park district did not accept that offer. And we need to rehash that issue now. I think the parties have generally moved on, but we put money on the table, all the costs. It didn't happen then. I will encourage everyone. If you please use this as a moment, if you've got concerns, reach out. I only saw emails today, which I didn't get a chance in some last night. I'm still getting through them, but did not know this was the issue. But if you see something, reach out before you go, before you see something on social media, we try to communicate as much as possible. And I'm actually grateful that everyone's here. We can help dispel some myths. With that, Angela Misei and Christian Castro. I'm guessing from your neighborhood, you want to talk about North Park, but if you do, you're here. Welcome. Thank you for giving me the time to speak. I do want to talk about North Park. I'm sorry. but if you do, you're here. Welcome. Thank you for giving me the time to speak. I do want to talk about North Park. I'm sorry. Your name is just one more time. I know it's 242 northwest 64th Street. Yeah. So I was able to attend the beaches and parks meeting yesterday. And so we did ask questions about the bond and seem like my take on what I heard was that they weren't interested in really pushing their control. So I'm glad that you clarified that, Mr. Brown. So I think that some of the P3 opportunities that I've heard are obviously paid entry into some of the events that would be able to take place in an aquatics park. The pickle ball sounds wonderful, and then I heard the cost. So I was hoping that it would be a little more affordable for some of the residents to use at times that were not at work. So that's something that I wanted to bring up, you know, some of the activities should also be multi-generational. And, you know, not just siloed to certain groups that could use these activities. I brought my daughter because she wanted to come. But also, because I'm an older mom and my children are very young. I have another one and I would like to be able to do things with them throughout their lifetime and mine. So the youth golf program sounds like it's off the table for everyone, but I would love to see that happen. John Prince Park is a pretty far dry for us from East Boka. You know, to be able to do things together to teach the youth golf. And I play it red reef and other places. So the other thing is my husband's even older than I am. And we would like to be able to have walking trails in the area that are shaded. I really love going for walks in the Delray Oaks Park and I'd like to have that type of walking path around us. You walk around the library but it's not shaded on Spanish River Boulevard. So if we could you know petition for some things that are more than just paid activities in that area, we would like to see that as well. Thank you. Thank you. And Mr. Castro. Christian Castro 295 North West 64 Street. You've already addressed some of the issues in regards to some of our neighbors that have already talked. I guess I heard that you guys are creating a master plan for recreation. Are we gonna be able to have any input or insight in regards to that or how's that being planned out? Yes, and City Manager will delve more into that when you can click too. Thank you. Oh, all right. You had more time if you wanted that was your question. All right very good All right, thank you. This round one that's our last recreation card one you just Talk about the masterful and very briefly please the Staff with the beach and park district and the city are working on a concept level master plan right now It's at the concept level What are the uses that we think we will need in the future and what is the logical succession of them and where should they go in relation to the park lands that we have and what park lands should we look at potentially acquiring in the future. After that process we're going to engage a consultant to actually do the, where will it fit and how will it fit on the ground work? During that process, those ideas will be brought to the public for review. The public will have an opportunity to hear what we're planning at the second workshop in April, what the staff has been discussing in terms of concepts. It'll be an opportunity for input then. There'll be an opportunity as we go into that physical planning process and during the planning process. There'll be plenty of opportunities for everyone, particularly those who are adjacent to the land where it's being built. Because under our zoning regulations, you will get notice of what's happening in terms of it on that property. Thank you. So, yes. Anestasia Colis. I'm going to put to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. and miss Coloss, whenever you're ready, your name is address, please. Thank you. Okay. Hello. My name is Anastasia Colas. I live at 199 men's field E. Boca Raton, Florida, 334-34. I've been coming here every time to reiterate the importance of a cyber police force and how it can save lives in the bulk of a tone area. I'm willing to volunteer and set this up. And after talking to Mr. Lucasick, I have broken this project into smaller steps as listed in the document before you that I have handed out. Artificial intelligence and all of this new technology that we all use nowadays is great, but it can also be used for crime in order to promote suicide, facilitate rape, engage in theft, and also, as mentioned before, what some of the other guys that were here earlier, sometimes technology is abused for espionage purposes or spying. Having a cyber police force actually take a look at this and combat this would be great. There's even certain dangers in regards to infrastructure where if we're not careful, you know, you have one bad part from China and the next thing, you know, there's issues with infrastructure that pops up. So, that's one of the reasons why I believe setting up ASEVA Police Force is integral for this city. I have over 50 signatures with me from different individuals, including seven IT professionals, two of which are military, and the other is a director of education for Cisco equipment that confirms some of my statements about crimes that have been conducted in the Boca Raton area, of which some that I have referenced before have been DNS hacker cables like the ones I stated that were at Apple and Best Buy. And you know, it's not fair to the citizens of Boca Raton if our stores have these dangerous items in place and we aren't doing anything to combat this. I have personally been impacted by these cables. I purchased one at a team mobile store. I've also come across one at Best Buy and there was an Apple cable at my grandma's house. So I have been personally affected by it and that is why I am bringing this up. I'm willing to set all of this up and even do it for a significantly lower price than previously mentioned. Again, I'm volunteering. I'm not looking for my own personal profit. The money that I asked for would be used for one transportation, two, equipment because in order to combat hackers, you need your own equipment. And I've listed a number that's listed on the document of, I think $300,000 that's significantly cheaper than most of the big items I see you guys pass every day. And all I'm looking for is one, just a vehicle to get started and volunteer. You can stick with it. Yeah. Yeah. So again, all I'm looking for is a vehicle to get started and volunteer. All right. Anyone else wishing to speak under public request? We have item 16 coming up after item 15. So I know I've got a number of cards for that. This is it for public request. Last call. All right, thank you. We'll close the time for public requests. We'll turn to introduction of ordinances. We have two ordinances to be introduced. An alas, Ms. Cidens, to read the title of 5732. Ordinance number 5732. In ordinance of the city of Booker Aton, amending ordinance number 4035, the Booker Aton Downtown Development of Regional Impact, D-D-R-I, Development Order, as amended, specifically the Downtown Quality Development Regulations to modify the established architectural base standards for certain applications for downtown quality projects, providing for severability, providing for repealer, providing an effective date. Thank you. Who would like to introduce this ordinance? Mr. Mayor, I'll introduce ordinance 5732. Thank you. And would you please read the title of ordinance 5733? Ordinance number 5733. And ordinance of the city of Boca Raton authorizing the city manager and city clerk to execute a non-exclusive construction and demolition, CND, debris collection and disposal services franchise agreement with Wasteline Solutions Inc. pursuant to section 14-21, Code of Ordinances, providing for severability, providing for appeal or providing an effective date. Thank you. Who would like to introduce this ordinance? Mr. Mayor, I'd like to introduce ordinance number 5733. Thank you. That concludes the introduction of ordinances. And before we turn to item 16, as I know a lot of people in the audience as well have been sitting here quite a while. I'm going to suggest a five-minute recess. And then we'll resume after that for what will be a longer hearing, but welcome everyone. So we'll resume in five minutes. Thank you. you you I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. you you you We are receiving a 1015 and we're moving to item 16, quasi-judicial public hearings for variances and appeals and we have resolution 34 2025 before us missidens please Resolution 34 2025 a resolution of the city council of the city of Boca Raton Considering an appeal of the planning and zoning board resolution number 2025 dash 0 0 1 Which approved a site plan amendment for an approximately 3.0 acre property, generally located at 1,0001 East Telecom Drive, to authorize construction of a 10,860 square foot free standing emergency room and related site improvements, including three technical deviations from section 23-19D2, of Ordinances, to reduce the required driveway Reservoir Distance for the Western Most Drive Way on East Telecon Drive, from 25 feet to 13.74 feet, to from section 28-1655, Code of Ordinances, to reduce the required number of vehicle parking spaces from 120 spaces to 82 spaces and three from section 28 dash 1651, 1D code of ordinances to increase the maximum number of reserve parking spaces from five spaces to nine spaces. Providing for a peeler, providing an effective date. Thank you. At this point, I'll ask the City Attorney to review the quasidued judicial procedure that will govern tonight's public hearing. If you don't mind reading it again, give it the time. Sure. In a good, this item is quasi-dued judicial in nature and accordance with the city's code of ordinances. Any applicant requesting a relief or action from the council this evening Shall disclose at the commencement or continues of the public hearing any consideration or payment provided for an agreement to support withhold with hold objection from The action requests tonight copy of the rules are attached to the agenda and available from the clerk Thank you very much at this point. I'll ask council members if they have an ax part to keep locations in which this is close. I'll start on my right this time with Mr. Bringer. Yes. Before this hearing after the PNZ, I had a brief conversation with Bonnie Miskel that she would be appealing on behalf of her client. And then last week she also called me to inform me that she'd be passing the file onto another attorney. Mr. Marshall, we have been playing telephone tag multiple times so we did not have a chance to communicate although I guess he passed the file on to Mr. Matt Janus who we also have been emailing out back and forth. We were able to have a call, a team's call with the HCA group, which included Amanda Pinto, Ken Jones, Nicholas Carpati, Steve Bowen. I believe Michael Marshall was on the team's call, but he didn't participate. There was attempted contacts by the silver companies, just the timing never worked out, so we never had a chance to communicate. And I believe those are all my ex-parte. Thank you, Mr. Rucker. Yes, I've had numerous conversations with Bonnie Misco before she filed. On 227. I had a call with HCA, which is on our calendar. To that meeting, I added today, and Miss Siddins has it because the invite was not updated with the participant, but Mr. Kenneth Jones was on that call. Mr. Mike Marshall was on that call as well. Yesterday, I had another meeting with HCA. Again, that calendar invite was not up to date, but on that meeting was Amanda Pinto, Nicholas Carpathi and Kenneth Jones. And that I was also emailed this morning to Mary, to Mary sit in. I also had a Zoom with the Monty, Misco yesterday on 317. All emails, any conversations that we had or any other meetings are all documented on the file, but those are the ones that I can, that I'm going to further disclose. And I've emailed all these to Mrs. Ciddens. Thank you, Ms. Nacolas. Thank you. I've had a Zoom with HCA representatives and Mike Marshall. It was Michael Marshall, Jody Bach, Kristen, I didn't catch your last name. Stephen Bowen, Kenneth Jones, and Jessica Fisher. And I have spoken a couple of times with Bonnie Miskel, once with Angela Bianco. I spoke with Bill Mitchell, Jr., and watched the PNZ, of course, and also got an email from Ross Donahue. Thank you, Ms. Chomsen. Apart from the emails that we got to her, I assume we all got, but I got to my sit email address. I've spoken about this matter with Ephraim Goldberg, Greg DeSantis, Josh Brody, Bonnie Miskel, Angel, Bianco, Kenneth Jones, Steve Bowen, Amanda Pinto, Jody Davidson, Matt Sacco, and Matt James, I believe that concludes my expartea closures. Thank you. I previously disclosed all of my expert data communications in writing. They've been on file with the city clerk since before this week started. Today, to supplement those, I received two emails from David Millage on behalf of Apollent, a peck, excuse me, a pellent. I spoke with Dr. Evan Goldstein, a book retone regional hospital. I previously spoken with Bonnie Miskel, also on behalf of a pellant, and I've spoken with Jody Davidson, Steven Bowen, and Kenneth Jones on behalf of HSA. In addition to the other people I disclosed in writing, I've also had beer and passes many times. And that concludes my expertity communications. Mayor Sanker. Please. Can I add one more? I had a brief conversation with Matt Sackel after our last meeting on 227 and I might have had him passing with Mr. Angelo Debianco a brief conversation on the appeal that was about maybe two weeks ago when I was in that building. But nothing specific. It was just like the appeals coming or something to that effect. All right, thank you. All right, that concludes Expartake Communication Disclosure. We'll ask anyone who wants to testify on this matter to please rise to the clerk and administer the oath. If you think you want to speak, please just rise now. It doesn't obligate you to, but it saves time later. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that any testimony you may give before this public hearing will be truthful and accurate? Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Brown. Thank you, Mayor. I'll end up with the development services department. It will make staff's presentation on the appeal. Good evening again or maybe good night, depending on the timing. My name is Owen Devlin, Senior Planner with Development Services and I'm here to present an appeal for the decision of the planning zoning board to grant the site plan approval and tree technical deviations. This is on the resolution number 2025, 001, for the property located at 1,001 East Telecom Drive. The approximate tree acre property is located at 1,001 East Telecom Drive. Just out of west of Madarode as can be seen on the map in the dotted line. It is on light, industrial and research park, also known as Lurp, and has a future land designation of plant mobility PM. On January 2nd, 2025, the applicant went before the P&Z board, requesting approval for a site plan to authorize the construction of a 10,860 square foot free standing emergency room, which include three technical deviations. One from section 28, 1655, to reduce the number of vehicle parking spaces from 120 spaces to 82 spaces. One from section 28, that's 16551D, tool out for nine existing parking spaces to be designated for reserved parking on the property. And the last one from section 23-190 to reduce the required drive rate reservoir distance for the West and most drive rate on Telecom drive from 25 feet to 30 and 0.74 feet. During the planning and zoning board meeting, the primary topic of discussion was the parking reductions and for the repopty and the proposed minimum parking deviation. Board members questions, the applicant regarding the expected daily number of ambulances that would visit the property, how emergency vehicles would navigate the area, general information about a free standing emergency room, and the parking requirements for both the existing office building and the proposed free standing emergency room. The appellant attended the hearing and voiced concern about this application specifically regarding the minimum parking deviations and its potential impact on the brick on brick, the Bogon invasion campus The appellant requested that the applicant provide additional information to justify the minimum parking deviation citing real-life scenarios for free standing marriage rooms already operated by the proposed tenants in Florida Several board members were in favor of the proposed free standing emergency room to support to newly approved residential units in the area. The board voted four to one and support of the application. Just for a general overview on screen is the approved site plan. The approved freestanding emergency room will be located in the western section of the property. Currently, existing office building is located in the eastern section of the property. As part of the site plan approval, the applicant will provide additional landscaping including street trees, a new sidewalk connection and a bus shelter on Weshemaderoad. Two existing driveways along East Halicom Drive will provide vehicle access. The property also contains vehicle cross-access with the property located to the east. The peel letter states at the appellant, GNIX brick fee owner, LSE, is agreed by the approval of the resolution 2025-001, claiming that the free-standon emergency room will create significant impacts on the brick due to the nature of the use. The appellant's arguments can be summarized into three categories as followed. The appellant claims that the proposed free-standon emergency The emergency room is not a permitted use. The appellant arguments can be summarized into three categories as followed. The appellant claims that the proposed Freestand Emergency Room is not a permitted use in the Lurbs Zone in District, both the minimum parking deviation and the driveway deviation are not supported. The appellant claims that the Freestanding Emergency use is not printed in the Lurbs Zone in District and as such there are significant impacts to the existing and proposed uses within the brick property in terms of traffic noise and destruction of business. Similar to many uses, the free standard emergency room is not expressly listed as a permitted use or conditional use in the code. In the regular administration of the code, staff evaluates whether specific uses align with broader categories that are designed as a permitted or conditional use within the code. While the free standard emergency room proposed for the property, it appears to be the first within the city, a similar use and urgent care clinic has long been allowed on the D'Ombaralla of Medical Office and currently operates within the Lurbsone district. On October 11, 2023, the City Council adopted ordinance number 5660, which expanded the categories of office use within the Lurbson district to explicitly include medical office. Regarding the freestanding emergency room, staff conducted a thorough review to determine whether it qualifies as a medical office. The city concluded that the freestanding emergency room is nearly identical to an urgent carcline in terms of land use and zoning and therefore is permitted in the Lurpe as a medical office. This determination has been backed by other local governments including Palm Beach County, which has reached the same conclusion. The following are three examples of free standing emergency rooms that the county had permitted as medical office. One is located on one on one, two, five glades road, one in Lake Worth at six, two, five, zero, and Tana Road. And one was previously approved a few weeks ago by the county commissioners, located at Okochobi Boulevard and the Florida Turnbike. All of these were approved under the medical office use. According to the city code, the proposed 10,860 square foot free standing emergency room requires 65 or 63 parking spaces while the existing 15,000 and 30 square foot office building requires 57 spaces, totaling 120 spaces. The applicant proposes 82 parking spaces, reducing their requirements but 38 spaces are 31.67%. To support this the applicant reference the Institute of Traffic Engineers, ITE, parking general manual, which indicates that a free standing emergency room needs 21 spaces for the property of this size, based on the 85th percentile requirements, which is something the city uses for most of our technical deviations when we're looking at the IDE. The appellant points out that there are only three studies related to this classification and raises concerns about how the small sample size and the studies age conducted in the early 2010s. However, the IT study is still the best available data on parking for free standing emergency rooms with all three sites located in Florida. This data is relevant and sufficiently supports the minimal parking death air deviation. The free standing emergency room will 24-7, allowing users to access 73 spaces on the property, 82 spaces, which are on the site minus the nine reserves, during non-PIC hours, exceeding the city's cold requirement for an L-patient surgery center. Peak activity for a freestanding emergency room occurs between 6 p.m. and 7 p.m. which is outside traditional office hours. The appellant can claim that only 25 spaces are for the free stand. The appellant's claim that only 25 spaces are available for the free standing emergency room is incorrect. While they're required in parking for the site's own individual uses, the code limits for their parking. Meaning most of the accessible parking spaces are open to all users, be it either the office or the free standing emergency room. Only nine of the spaces will be reserved for the office building, leaving ample parking for the free standing emergency room. During the board hearing, the applicant noted that the office currently only had, during the board meeting, the applicant and the owner of the property noted that only, the office only currently has 90 into 20 employees and does not fully utilize all parking on site. The balance states that reducing the driveway and reservoir distance will a versely affect brick by not providing enough space for even one vehicle to stack without causing conflict with internal drive-viles or telecom drive. As telecom drive is the sole access road to brick from Yamada road, any conflict could create traffic issues and hazards for tenants and visitors. Additionally, the appellant mentions that ambulance and emergency vehicles will impact circulation on the property, potentially causing at the access point. The city traffic engineer recommended the approval of the driveway deviation based on several factors, which include the development is expected to generate only a few additional trips lean to minimum traffic impact and does not require a review from the Palm Beach County traffic division due to fewer than 20 peak hour trips. The minor driveway connects the East Telecom Drive, a low speed, low volume internal road, where any delays are not expected to affect the major roadways. The driveway configuration has existed for decades and the new traffic does not alter its classification. And the proposed design will maintain a 43 foot distance from the first point of contact to the paved edge on the street, accommodating for two vehicle vehicles. During the boards, public hearing, the applicant indicated that their facilities typically receive one to two ambulances daily. Florida law does require drivers to yield to ambulance with flashing lights or reduce speed if unable to move over. But based on the location of the property, an ambulance accessing the property from Yamada Road would only incur only one conflict point, that's the intersection of T-Rex Avenue and East Halicom Drive. So giving the low daily ambulance volume and its close proximity to your motor Road. The potential impact on brick is minimal. The development service department affirms the PNZ board decision. And if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer. That concludes my presentation. Councillor Mellon, any questions? Mr. Dovelyn? Mr. Nackles. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just have one question right now. But during the PNZ meeting, Mr. Dovelyn, you said from the city's point of view, the office part of it has to be parked for office because though there is a tenant that says that the owners, as they have low tendency there now or low traffic or you know only need a few spaces we still have to park it for office because it is an office no matter who the tenant may be because a tenant may change in the future correct so that would be 57 spaces for the office. Correct so the site so the way we do it obviously each use has a breakdown about the parking is but it's taken for the whole property. So the whole property would require 120 spaces based on the certain number for the office which I think is 57. As of now the office tenants are the owner of the office building does not use all of them spaces, but we still classify it as requiring 57 spaces because that's what office space is classified at. Okay. Okay. And then, so on August 27th of 24, we passed ordinance 5698, which put free standing ERs in with Lpatient surgery centers and parked at a rate of one to 175 square feet, right? correct. So That would mean that the This free standing ER should have 63 spaces as you stated. Yeah, right? So the 63 and 57 is 120. So I'm just reiterating this. I just for me, I just don't understand the 32% reduction in parking. And especially when we had a lot of discussion that day, and that day stands out because that day was my birthday. And we had a lot of discussion on this. And Mr. Wigder had brought it up, you know, that we're choosing a more cautious route for more intensive parking. The mayor actually, I've watched that PNZ meeting over and I've watched this August 27 meeting several times. But between Mr. Wigder and the mayor, you kind of confirmed yes, we are going to, this is what we want to do to keep the free standing ears with the outpatient surgery centers, keep them parked at 1,275 square feet. So, you know, we came up with that number, we had a lot of discussion on it, and then to see this 32% reduction in parking, that's where I really have the issue with it. Yeah, I guess from maybe Brandon can follow up on this. I think from watching back on the meeting, the city made a point that we didn't review, free standing emergency rooms as part of our review process because we didn't have any in the city. But you are correct, it was included in that definition. I'm praying the chat about the services director, if I could just add. So we came with a reduced parking requirement for medical office and we excluded outpatient surgery centers when we brought that to the council because the ones we looked at appeared to have a higher demand than other types of medical offices in the city. And the council made the decision to add emergency services to that definition at the time. And the reason that I understood was because we didn't have any data to support that particular facility going lower than that. So that made sense to keep it at the same requirement that it would have been at anyway, which was the prior medical office rate of one space for 175 square feet. So like any other use, whatever the code requirement is, a technical deviation can be applied for and justified with appropriate data. And I think that if we look at the data, in my opinion, it certainly supports it. And I think that what the applicant has provided since then shows even more so that that's the case. And so we look at those technical deviations like we do with any other property, like we do with any other use, and we make that judgment. And again, I think that's supported. So that's sort of the history. That's the reason we kept the rate the same as it was before is because we didn't, when the ordinance came forward, we simply did not have data like we did for other specific types to bring it down. That's my understanding of the council's discussion back in August. For the questions of staff and for the public hearing. Mr. Wigner. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Shad, for refreshing my recollection. And yes, the video again was refreshing my recollection of the conversation. Happy birthday again, Miss Nockles. Yes, or a minor, happy birthday. I didn't, I forgot it was your birthday. But yes, it was a specific discussion about that because we didn't have the data and I think staff even said, yeah, we haven't analyzed that yet. It will require further study or something like that. And that's why it was, at least that's my recollection as that's why it was, that's why it was left off. So again, I think for those reasons, yeah, I was of the same mind that I thought that this significant technical deviation was significant. I think that was very significant as opposed to the application that was just before, as before, where she was 12 spots or something like that. Obviously, I'm still reserving judgment on the L, the medical office being indistinguishable from urgent care, being indistinguishable from freestanding emergency rooms. You know, and obviously when I think about indistinguishable, I think about operational, is staff ever consider the operational components of freestanding emergency rooms regarding fire and rescue and their And their requirements to answer calls is that part of land use and zoning decisions? discussions I'm not sure I understand the question there That's what it says on the staff analysis it says from a zoning and land use perspective an FSER is virtually indistinguishable from urgent care. And obviously in my just daily observations and my conversations with HCA. Obviously what is understandable is that there could be a fire rescue component where a member of our own city services is required to take people to these locations has the interaction of fire rescue and how they would interact with a new FSCR and a city is that ever part of the analysis of staff. So we had a lot of data from the potential applicant on how many ambulances would come to their facility. And it was a very small amount. And the details are escaping, but how the details of how what types of cases would end up being transferred to the main hospital, what would be treated there, what would just not even be appropriate for that location at all, we went through a lot of that stuff. So when we say virtually indistinguishable from a land use and zoning perspective, we're talking about, you know, we're talking about transportation, we're talking about noise, we're talking about anything that could be impactful to surrounding properties in the larger community. So the answer is yes. We looked at all the data that we could possibly get all of that. I wouldn't think to add to like all review processes, fire and police services are included on the review cycle. So both fire and police services were somewhat involved in this review cycle similar to any site plan that comes before you guys. Thank you for the questions. I have to. First I got some figures from Chief Trainer about the number of transports by our Boca fire rescue to Boca Motone Regional Hospital per day. Did you look at that data in assessing the claims by the applicant about the number of emergency room visits? Or ambulance visits? I'm not sure what data you're referring to. Is it something that was in the packet or something you personally received? No, I just got something today. Yes, that it was 18.4 transports by Bocca fire rescue to the regional hospital over a two-year period over 23 and 24 I don't know if you looked at anything like that to to jive or check the consistency the the thing is that the the freestanding emergency room is a different type of facility than than the main hospital and the the emergency room there so it's it's an apples and oranges It wouldn't tell me a whole lot to know that. And then can you, I want to get ahead of it before the appellant comes up. The appellant shared with me information suggesting I hadn't heard this term before, a throat distance of 13 and 3 1 1 1 3 1 2 feet. I guess the driver of reservoir, they're calling that portion the throat. Could you talk about if you can you actually have multiple ambulances stacking there and not get out of the main roadway in telecom? The point that the applicant made on this and I believe that our traffic engineering agreed with this point was that while there's only 13 something feet between the property line and the first conflict point that because there's a large swale there between the actual pavement of telecom drive and the first conflict point would be whatever is 40 some 43 feet I think it was. That's enough to stack to the ambulances. All right, thank you. So the swell is roughly 38 then. I guess that's the math. All right, thank you. All right, for the questions. All right, well, I'm not the public hearing. This is rather unusual because under our code, both the appellant and the applicant are treated like an applicant. So we're gonna go and first the appellant will have 20 minutes. The applicant will have 20 minutes. I'll take comments from the public, anyone who's submitted a card, wishes to speak, they'll have up to three minutes each. There will be an opportunity for cross-examination. So anyone who does speak is requested to state at the conclusion of the meeting, and I know that it's rather late, but requested to stay to the conclusion of the hearings so that if either party or anyone wants to cross examine, you may be there for cross examination. Finally, there'll be a chance for a rebuttal by both the appellant and the applicant in that order. And before Ms. Miskle begins, since we're less than 20 minutes away from 11 o'clock, and our code requires that, rules of the council require that we have a motion to extend beyond 11 PM. I'm going to suggest we make that motion now. So moved. Thank you. Second, thank you all those in favor. Please say aye. Aye. So we will continue on. And Ms. Miskel, you have 20 minutes. Thank you very much. Bonny, Miss Goh. My address is 14th Southeast Forest Street. I have been sworn. I am a land use and zoning lawyer. I'm going into my 34th year and still moving. And I haven't qualified as an expert as well in zoning matters. And I've been an expert on some cases actually one of which was in Boqueratown that didn't happen. In any event, I'm going to try to move this along because I realize this is very late, but thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak this evening. So, little summary and some of which you have already heard, but the freestanding emergency room use is actually classified in the code, so I'm to refute a point that was made by staff in two places actually. You amended in August, on August 27, 2024. You amended the definition for outpatient surgery center to include among other things, the free standing emergency room. That also the freestanding emergency room now that it's part of the surgical outpatient surgical center. That is also included in the MC. So it is a category that is in the MC as well. It is a permitted use in the MC because it is an outpatient care facility as a result of the surgical center. So in any event, it is classified as an outpatient care facility. It is also in the MC and it is not expressly permitted in the LERP. And I'll explain that in a few minutes. We're breaking this down as quickly as we can. We also have a problem with both of the technical deviations to sum both of those points up. Number one, because the impacts created by their requests are going to create a problem for the neighboring property. The Boca Raton Innovation Campus is 125 acres. It's immediately south of the Silver Company building and immediately across the street from1 telecom drive. So we're going to prove to you this evening that it will be detrimental and it will injure for a few reasons. Background in 2023 the city amended the LERP, professional office and business office permitted use to add in medical office. That was after a much debate and discussion with the parking broken sound and certain property owners in the area. And the city then agreed that it made sense to do that. But the city didn't just say, well, it offices already permitted, will be like Palm Beach County, and will just come in under office. That you didn't do that because you don't do that. You actually clarify uses and specify uses where you can. And in that instance, you do what you've done before, and you added through legislative action, you added another use essentially into the LARP, and that was in 2023. In 2024, the council came back and they looked at ordinance number 5698, which did a few things. Number one, it established a definition for the outpatient surgery center, which you'll see in the second bullet point, what it says, it amended the office parking rate and reduced the rate from what it previously was, and it also created an established a rate for the surgical center. The outpatient surgery center is now defined, and it shall be a healthcare facility where same day surgical emergency room and urgent care procedures not requiring an overnight hospital stay are performed. That was the conclusion of the meeting and I'll go into you'll see a short clip in just a second. And the parking requirement was to stay at a more intense, there was much discussion at that meeting you're going to hear a small part of it. So I think if I hit, there we go. I think we have the good definition of the application surgery centers. Certainly I support moving this forward. Absolutely, it's been some time. But in terms of the definition of outpatient surgery centers, and I believe it's not let's talk about it as well, I do believe that the intent is not that there be urgent care clinics or stand-alone emergency rooms. That's part of this definition and it just seems that it's not included there. So I wanted to make a motion to include this amendment to include that those would also be considered in the same scheme as outpatient surgery centers. I think the idea here is certainly we could respect that regular medical offices should be able to be going into regular office buildings without any increased parking, but that would not be a sort of standalone emergency room or urgent care clinic or something like that, where there is, you know, generally a much greater density, to an out page in surgery center, so I think that definition should be slightly expanded. All right. Thank you. Comments? Questions? Ms. Nagelis? All right. Thank you. Could staff or Mr. Wigter, the library please the difference between a medical clinic and a medical office under these definitions please? I do have a response. Yes, so actually staff is, regarding the free standing emergency room, staff is not researched or study the free standing emergency rooms. We don't have any in the city, so we'd be happy to include that as like a further study down the road. As far? Okay. So again, staff's initial proposal for the code amendment was the upper block that says outpatient surgery center, Shalmeena Healthcare Facility, we're same day, surgical procedures not requiring an overnight hospital stay are performed. After significant debate and discussion on the differences between outpatient surgery and medical office and free-standing emergency rooms, the there was a unanimous decision to amend the language to what is shown below. And now it reads out patient surgery center, shall mean a healthcare facility, emergency room procedures, medical clinic procedures or urgent care procedures, where same day surgical procedures not requiring an overnight hospital stay are performed. So the question really comes down to, and we obviously believe very strongly that the freestanding emergency room use is not expressly permitted in LARP. It could have been, you could have added it under the medical office, but you didn't. And you later added a definition that clearly distinguished medical office from the other list for the reasons that a couple of the members spoke about, that it is more intense. It is different than an office use. So this on the screen is the most of the permitted uses in LERP zoning. By the way, I've given you a binder that includes the full Lurp section, so if you feel the need or interest to look at the binders, oops, they haven't been handed out. So sorry. While that's happening, I'll keep going. You mean you want to get your microphone again, Miss Miskel? Oh, I hit it, I'm sorry, forgive me. Okay. Thank you. Yes. So all of the exhibits that are contained in here. I am speaking about and you will have them and they'll also be included for the record and I can provide a copy to the to Mr. Marshall as well. So in event, these are the permitted uses and you see what the city did in 2023. It simply added next to business, professional and governmental office uses, including medical office. It could have added such uses, other healthcare related uses, but you didn't choose to do so. And by the way, we went back and we listened to both hearings when this was amended at no time in either hearing did anyone, including the public, including Mr. Ungen, ask for anything other than medical office. It was the only thing that was asked for. No one raised urgent care. It wasn't part of any of the reports and it isn't part of the record for that particular meeting. All that was discussed was amending this to include medical office, and there was much debate about that even. So, what you see is what is expressly permitted in Lurpin, it's on the screen today. So, I talked a little bit about the outpatient surgery centers being incorporated into the outpatient care facilities that are RNMC. And remember, free standing ERs are in the definition now for surgical centers, outpatient surgical centers. So this is MC. And by the way, MC was adopted years before the LERP change. And this last amendment, I think, to the MC was in 2021. But they have separated those two uses. You have a place of worship, be offices for doctors, dentists, and opticians, see hospital, convalescent home, and nursing home, and D, outpatient care facility, including surgical centers. So while on the, in the LERP section, we just say medical office. Here we actually break them out, showing this council and the city's transparency in trying to identify the specific uses that are expected to be in these categories. So what does that mean? What is the law? What is the case law on this? And so I've cited and also those are included in your binder what the case law is. And I'll start with the Supreme Court. So in Rancor Materials Court, the City of North Miami, the Supreme Court concluded that local ordinances are subject to the same rules of interpretation as state statutes. And in that case, a court interpreting local ordinances must first look at the plain and ordinary meaning of the words in the ordinance. If the plain and ordinary meaning is clear, then other rules of construction and interpretation are and un-oriented. In Las Olas Towers, V city of Fort Lauderdale, the fourth DCA case, in that case the court concluded that without, the court is without power to construe an unambiguous statute in a way which would extend, modify, or limit its express terms, or its reasonable and obvious implications. In Snyder versus Commissioners of Brevard County, local governments and agencies must strictly adhere to town development plan and zoning codes. In Carol V. City of Miami Beach, a city is bound by the express terms of its own ordinances. If the city desires a different meaning for its ordinance in the future, it may amend, modify, or change the same by legislative process. In fact, in the August 27, 2024 hearing, Councilman Wigder actually articulated that if the conservative numbers are, they don't work out, we see when we get a use in the city, we see that they're unreasonable, we can come back and do this again. Do this again. And what you were doing was you're amending the code. You weren't making an interpretation where the public doesn't have a chance to give input and provide you with feedback as to public impacts. So essentially in some where uses are not expressly provided for in a zoning designation, they're presumed prohibited. More specifically when a use is expressly permitted in another category, it may not be assumed to be allowed in another category where it's not specifically referenced. So let's talk about the parking deviation. And by the way, thank you to Owen. He did send us on Friday the revised traffic. I was out of town. I forwarded onto our traffic engineer, but we haven't had a chance to review it in detail. And I'm somewhat confused as one of the, at least one of the, the particular locations that they studied is a shopping center. It's included in the shopping center. So it's not clear how that data works out. But to be honest, accepting that their studies were done properly, and I have a lot of respect for Mr. Donaldson, the problem is that your code and the technical deviation isn't just about providing a parking study. Once you do, you're not guaranteed that you're going to get approved for that technical alleviation because there are other criterion that you must consider. And that application was devoid of the reasons that you should approve this. It did not suggest how they met and achieved and were compliant with all of the criterion. I'm going to get to that in a minute. But you see the new office rate up above. So when they came back in with this plan, Mr. Silver's got to get his plan re-evaluated under the new code. And the office would have required 57 spaces. the freestanding ER would have required 63 spaces. Staff mentioned to you because they're asking for nine to be reserved. You take that out of the equation, you're left with 73 spaces. But they still have to have 57 spaces for the office because, as council member Naclas mentioned, if Mr. Silvercells is building, if they decide to lease their building, if they decide to break that building from a single tenant into multi-tenant, you will end up with more demand. And you cannot tell them they can't do that they have a right to use their property. So whatever you approve today, you have to assume that that building in the future could be full. And if it is, is it going to be a worse scenario than what you've been presented? And we believe it will be. So, and by the way, I don't know how, and that's a typo there. It's really a 60% reduction. If you look at and you take theirs out and you say they have to do 57, and we have to do 63, and we only have 25, we are really asking for 60% reduction for the ERUs because we're only providing 40% of what that ERUs would need. So now we're going to get into the throat distance and I'm going to turn it over to Brian Kelly who's a licensed traffic engineer who is going to walk you through this. So I'm going to try to be real fast here. Brian Kelly, traffic engineer, Simmons and White, 18 years of experience. I am a professional engineer licensed in the state of Florida, and I have been qualified to give expert testimony. So the proposed driveway distance, the throat distance is about 50 percent reductions, about 13 feet. It's not uncommon that these kind of requests are made and oftentimes are granted. Oftentimes there's reasons for it, but I think there's a couple of things that at least you'd be considered when we're looking at this. Staff pointed out there is a there is 43 feet between the drive aisle and the in the actual roadway but there's a sidewalk there as well so the sidewalks right at the end of the right away so if there is a queue it, you know, they would be potentially blocking the sidewalk, which really isn't an ideal situation. But probably more importantly, the 13 feet, they're stopping at the stop bar. So it's really that distance there. And if you have a vehicle or two, queue it up, whether that's an ambulance or regular vehicle, you potentially could be blocking people from turning into the site. So So it's certainly not an ideal preferred condition if this met the minimum standards. The other thing that's worth pointing out, you can see in the red box there, that red box is an ambulance drop off area. So when ambulance comes in, that's where they would have to drop off the patients. I'm familiar with several of these sites in Palm Beach County. And I think almost all of them have a designated ambulance bay. So what I mean by that is they have a pull-off bay that's separate from the drive aisle where the ambulance would go in that way. They can stop their vehicle. They can get the patient out. Because when a emergency vehicle is going to be there, they're going to be there for several minutes, maybe a little bit longer during that time. The problem with this situation, or the concern with this situation, I should say, is it would be blocking the westbound lane as you come in. And obviously that's kind of where most of the traffic is coming from, or that's going to be where that intensity is of the site. And so a vehicle, if the ambulance is there, they're going to have to cross over to the other lane. You can see there are some parking spaces that would be blocked as well on that south side just a couple. So it's really not an ideal situation based on this configuration. You know, the number of amulets is that come in on the site, you know, that's probably specific for different areas. I've been by several of these. I've seen amulets, so I know at least that happens on occasion, otherwise I wouldn't have seen it. So I think in totality when you're kind of looking at the site design, the application, the technical deviation, these particular items are at least worth considering, worth looking at. In my opinion, the traffic circulation, the operation, safety, they could be improved and they could be better if the technical deviation wasn't required if they had that longer throat distance. And certainly if they have an ambulance drop off area that was separate from the drive aisle or at least at a different location. So with that, I'm going to turn it back over to Ms. Miskel. Thank you. So we receive the other problem with this plan is there was no circulation plan included in the package. We called Mr. Devlin and asked for it because typically when you're asking for changes to ingress an egress, you do such a plan. There was none. We did see today, I don't know, it was somewhere between 1 and 4, that a circulation or some version of an operational plan was given. We had no time to review it, and I sincerely doubt your staff did with any great detail. But when they submitted this application and asked for a reduction in the throat depth, should have been included so that you could have seen and we all would have had evidence as to whether you know ambulances can get in here. The other thing that was not considered and is not contained in your report at all is the pending applications for the EMD. This is a master plan that has been submitted, this has been submitted for a while. We have been working on another plan for about two years and that plan was submitted even before this one. This was supposed to be sequence two. It's now likely to be sequence one. But I would like for you to look at the amount of square footage that is in the lower left hand corner of the screen. This, what you're seeing, which is really going to be the first sequence, amounts to approximately 1200 dwelling units, 150 room hotel, 22,000 square feet of conference center, 140,000 square feet of commercial, and 80,000 square feet of medical office, create a real medical office as it turns out, who actually occupying this base today. So that's the amount of development plus the one point set. in a real medical office as it turns out, who are actually occupying this space today. So that's the amount of development plus, the 1.7 million that is already there. None of this was factored into when they talked about this low volume street. It's not a low volume street. It's immediately north of sequence one. And in addition to becoming something much more than a low volume street, we were encouraged, maybe even twisted our arm a bit, to agree to street scapes standards that require on-street parking, larger sidewalks, sidewalks that are separated, bike lanes that are separated, street islands, and if they're pushing their throat all the way to where the edge of pavement is and essentially using the right of way towards what they need for turning movements, we have nowhere to put those sidewalks on the left side of the street to meet this new street state standard that is included in this EMD Which is incredibly problematic for us because there's a high probability that will be told we have to do it on our side Which isn't right so we clearly are burdened by what they're proposing to do by essentially using right of way Because they can't meet the depth So criteria talked about you can't you can't just hand in a study and say, okay, I passed. You have to meet all of this criteria. So I'm going to quickly go through this and this is the end of our presentation. This relates to the driveway reservoir. The particular five items here are the same for the parking reduction as well. They suggest operational analyses be performed. I presume what I received today was that. I'm not quite sure because it didn't say what it was. But we didn't get one. Staff didn't get one. When staff made the recommendation, they didn't have one. So that was a real deficiency. they've satisfied it. I don't know. Be, the technical deviation results in a preferable environmental impact or traffic circulation design. What you heard our traffic engineers say it is not ideal to have the ambulance space assuming and blocking the ingress space, which it is. There's a two way traffic. It will occupy one full side. That is not preferable traffic circulation design. As a matter of fact, included in your backup, the package that I just gave you, we provided you with pictures of six Palm Beach County, one of which was in their traffic study and the other four that are in other locations, Cutler Bay, et cetera. It's in the back up. It will be part of the record. Every single one of those has a pull-off for the ambulance. None of them do what this design proposes, which is to put the ambulance in the middle of one of your drive lanes. All of the others, including actually some that I believe their user owns or at least operates. Again, doesn't meet this requirement. And then C is always one of the toughest ones for those of us that ask for these. The technical deviation is the minimum deviation necessary for the applicant to make reasonable use of the property. It doesn't say to make use of that use of the property. It just says reasonable use. Could they have built a bigger building? No. Could they have built a smaller building? Yes. And if they had built a smaller building, they certainly could have resolved their throat depth problem, and they might even have been able to do sufficient parking because the building would require less parking. So did they do the minimum necessary absolutely not? There's no doubt about it, and that's a very hard one to do. Is the deviation detrimental to the public welfare? Well, if you put an ambulance, and even if they're only two per day, which is what they said at the last meeting, two times a day, they're going to block a road. They're going to block one of the lanes to get two and from the building. And on a good day, maybe only two of the spaces that they've designed to be used will be blocked. But it might be more as they try to back out because the ambulance is right there behind them. And then next, special and unique conditions exist which are not directly attributable to the actions of the applicant. This is everything that they have asked for is exactly attributable to the applicant. They want this use, it's not allowed in the code, but they want this use, they want this size use, they don't want to put it on a parking structure. They could put it on a parking structure, at which point they get more parking. And I'm actually going to end on that point. I would like to reserve a little closing at the end. I'm going to give the appellant the same 25 minutes at the beginning and 10 minutes for both parties So you win five minutes over they'll get 25 in their case in chief. I have a question for you can you go back please to the diagram with the throat Yes, I can't tell because where the arrows are if a vehicle an ambulance or other vehicle is heading North into the property and in that throat extending out into the right of way. Can a vehicle exit going south out of the property or does that block? I can look so tight there. I can't tell if you have a radius for two vehicles to pass at the same time. That's probably best to ask their traffic engineer, but the problem that you're going to have and understand, and you can even see the trees and the streetscape that's in the Swale area, but there will be, based on the EMD requirements, there will be a larger sidewalk and a bike path that will be running along that frontage. And so they will interrupt whatever that is in the future. I think that there, and I'm not a traffic engineer, but I do believe that it's the depth that's the issue, it's not the width so much. So I think you probably can, but I would defer to a traffic engineer. It was your point by the way, when you said you'd have street parking and it might impact it, forcing it to put it on your side of telecom drive. Why would it not be on both sides? It's supposed to be on both sides, but if they use up and they are using the Swayle area in order to get in and out of their site, we are going to have a real challenge based on the design of the streetscape that was codified in the EMD. It would be very difficult for us without shifting the entire road into the south, southern property. It would be very challenging for us to be able to work within the existing right of way and do what that streetcape asks us to do, particularly when they are pushing their radii where you see that turn, where that is, that's going to be right next to a very large sidewalk. It's just too much in an area that's about to grow exponentially. And everyone knows it, it's been in the works for years. Thank you. Any other questions of the appellate? All right, thank you. Thank you very much. Oh, sorry, Mr. Wigtcher, sorry. Yes, thank you. In the supplementary items that you submitted to us, item five is FSCR Areals. Yes, those are. The FSCR Areals. You have some arrows aerials have some arrows and things like that. Can you just explain briefly what you're focusing on there? Yes. So for example, under tab five, the first graphic is one of the properties that actually they studied. And that's 1960, South Dixie Highway Cutler Bay. And where you see the circles, those are the drop-offs. It appears for both pedestrian and for the ambulance or pickup as a case may be. What we're just trying to show you is that in some instances they're not, they may be freestanding ERs, but they they're not free standing necessarily so you'll see some pictures where they're part of a shopping center which may make it difficult to count. And then in other cases we're trying to show you that apparently the industry at least every single one that we looked at other than this one believes that you should have a separate bay for your ambulances. But this one does not. And we believe the reason for that is it's just 10 pounds of potatoes and a five pound sack. Thank you. The questions? Thank you very much. Thank you. All right, well now here from the original applicant, you'll have name is Michael Marshall. I'm with Nelson Mullins, 1905. Northwest Corporate Boulevard is our address. First off, I can't believe we're here so late and I do feel sorry if you're on a way or I sympathize with you because you're going to hear what's going to be a very wildly different version of the law in the facts. I know it's going to sound convoluted. It's because it's been made convoluted so I do apologize in advance. I'll try to make this as simple as possible. So this is not the beginning. Right. So we've already discussed, we know why we're here and staff have identified the issues. I think they've been identified fairly succinctly. Whether medical office is a permitted use in lorp, and whether this is a medical office, whether the ITE rate and the other justification, the evidence that was presented to planning is on board. The suggestion that there was no evidence is absolute false. And we'll discuss what was presented to PNZ, what was presented to staff. They claimed that the ITE rates are stale, and then whether they reduce driveway reservoir is with an effective debt the 43 feet will adequately serve the property. So before I continue though, there's a lot has been made of ordinance 5698. And so for that reason, first off, I will discuss it in more detail. I will explain to you just as your development services director explained to you. It was largely a non-event for this application. This application was submitted a year and a half ago. On November 15th was the pre-application meeting. And PAR compliance was in June of 24. We went through two rounds of staff comments. staff review was complete during the day on August 27th, and like 2024. That evening, this ordinance was adopted. So first, clear law. You can look, we go back to the Florida Supreme Court, since they were mentioned, in the case of Hollywood, that dealt with the fact that an applicant that submits an application to utilize their property in accordance with the law and effect at that time is the law that applies to the application. You are essentially vested with those rules. Retroactive application of the law is not allowed. There are examples or exemptions when you have like zoning in progress or you have some other red flag that's telling you that hey, there's going to be a change in what you want to do. But in this case, the change was that they may reduce the parking requirement for what you're proposing. Okay, so they're going to reduce. We're seeking a reduction in the parking requirement. Staff is telling us the council may actually reduce the standard, but because this is, there won't be a retroactive application, it's not gonna apply to you. You're gonna continue not with standing ordinance 5698, not with regardless of what 5698 does. The end of the day, 5698, all it did was keep the applicable parking rate the same. The standard parking rate was the same as it was when we applied the application a year and a half ago. So it didn't change anything. It's the same parking rate. Yes, you have, it used to be that all medical uses were parked at this rate. But now you've reduced it for all but a certain type of medical use, medical office use, which is this outpatient surgery center, you left it the same. So it's status quo. Anyway, that's why I wanted to provide this timeline to you so you can see this application went through the entire review process. And the suggestion that you could retroactively apply an ordinance, let's just assume that all of a sudden prohibited while was being proposed. To respond to a specific application that's been submitted under the rules and the effect at the time to then undermine it is clearly unlawful. It's well-settled in Florida law. But I want to show you this timeline just so you're aware of that. This is not working. Okay. Right. So, I know there's been a lot of talk about this being an intense parking use, but it's fairly well known that this is a very low intense, very high value use. It is, as staff says, a medical office. Your staff is telling you that this is a medical office, this is how they've applied the code. Urgent cares have been approved as medical office. If you were to say differently today, you would be creating non-conformities that exist on the ground and have existed on the ground for years. Right? The urgent care that's in-lure. The urgent care that's in the RB1. Those are all approved as medical offices. That's how it's been interpreted. That's how it's been applied historically. That's what your staff is telling you. It creates minimal new vehicle trips. It only has 17 peak hour trips. 63 spaces are required under the standard. The knee 63 spaces, you would need consecutive hours of this peak hour with nobody leaving in order to accumulate 17, 3 or 4 times in a row. That doesn't happen. This is just by looking at the traffic data, you'll know there aren't that many cars that come in and out of this facility. It is like an urgent care, it looks like an urgent care, it is different to respect what happens inside it. It has positions, it can treat emergencies, this facility is there to save lives. People don't plan to have a heart attack. People don't plan to need emergency care. People do plan to have cosmetic surgery. People do plan to get MRIs. People do plan to get physicals for their high school athletics. Those are the type of surgery centers that have book appointments all day long. This is not that type of facility. So it's an extremely low parking demand, much lower in other medical uses. And also the building itself, it's a 30-foot building with 85-foot maximum height. It's only 0.25 FAR, 10,000 square feet, 19% building coverage. That's it. Compared to the neighborhood, it's building 4 million square feet. 10,000 square feet, 4 million square feet. And we're worried about who has impacts on the other. So these are the advantages of the FSCR. We talked about this at the planning and zoning board. I do have with me today the CEO from HCA's East Florida Division, because I do feel like that this this use has been unfairly characterized mischaracterized to make it look like a nuisance when it is actually again a low Intensity use that is meant to save lives people talk about what's ideal and what isn't ideal? What's ideal is being able to help your community be able to help your citizens citizens, be able to help people live. We're not, and this isn't, this isn't a turn style, with people always coming in over and over again, every 15 minutes with life threatening conditions. So with that said, I would like to introduce you to Kenneth Jones, CEO of HCA. Good evening, Kenneth Jones, CEO of HCA Florida Northwest Hospital. I live at 10211 Lowndtower Place, that's in City of Davy. I want to thank you for the opportunity to give remarks about our proposed project. I've been CEO of HCA Florida Northwest Hospital for four years. Live at about HCA,. We have 190 hospitals throughout the country with a larger healthcare provider here in the state. We have 48 hospitals in the state of Florida. We have 14 and East Florida from the Treasury Coast down to Miami. We currently operate 54 free standing emergency rooms throughout the state and nine free standing emergency rooms in the region. Kind of in the nutshell, I mean you heard previous comments about the why these facilities are helpful for the community. They're helpful for our communities as relates to the types of patients that we can treat. Physicians are on staff 24-7. It's equipped with the latest updated imaging, equipment and laboratory equipment to really diagnose and deliver care for severe and life-threatening situations. It allows treatment of emergency health conditions close to home, so if someone's out at a sporting event, if someone is out and there's a, there are doctors offices closed, urgent care is closed. It's like being in a acute care facility and having access to those particular services. The staffing is about 15 staff per day, so around four, around, you know, per hour, Well, physician, nurse, you know, texts, etc. And then I average our facilities see about 30 patients over a 24 hour period. There's much to be said about the EMS traffic. Typically, EMS does not bring patients to free standing emergency rooms. So the bulk of a ton or a traditional hospital does not really connect back to this model. EMS will take life threatening emergencies to a hospital. The only time EMS provided would take someone from, it's from a facility if they're having a heart attack and they need to get to a hospital very quickly. So that traffic from EMS is relatively low. We're talking less than one or two over a 24-hour period. And so that's a little bit about the facility. So thank you for the opportunity to present and look forward to answering any of your questions. Mr. Jones, you want to question Mr. Jones? Yes, go ahead please. I have a question. Can you go back on slide please? That slide was up there just a short time but number three says because freestanding ERs are a fillet with the hospital they accept the same insurance plans and everything. Correct. What hospital is this affiliated with? It's affiliated with HC Florida Northwest Hospital that's located in the city of Marquette. Okay. Okay. So I may have more questions about that later. On our Zoom call that we had, you said that the staffing for the facility is 15 staff. That's correct, but now you just said it's four staff per shift? Four around the clock. So for every, for, you know, in a given time, in a given hour, there's four staff working there. So if you look at over a 24-hour period, that equates to 15 or 16 total FTEs, excuse me, that are working in the facility, but really only four staffing per hour. So four staff working in an ER that you said treats life-threatening emergencies. Correct. So, yeah, I'm assuming you have a front desk person. A front desk, you have a doctor, nurse, nurse, you know, imaging capability. But that's a typical, if you look at free standing emergency rooms across the country, that's a typical staffing plan. You may add an additional person for security, et cetera, but it's typically in that range. You know, no more than 15 to 20 total staff that are working in the facility. That's a very typical staff and plan. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I'll just have a little bit of a lawyer there. How many beds are you planning at this facility? Let's see. The other big house. Then. We're estimating 10 treatment beds, 10 to 11 treatment beds for the facility. All right, thank you. Thank you. Questions, Mr. Jones, performing structural resumes. Right, structural. Thank you. All right, so, you know, the first question is, is FSCR a medical office? And simply put, your staff says it is, and virtually every other jurisdiction does. We researched 38 FSCRs in South Florida across jurisdictions and invariably. There were a couple of municipalities that actually do have a free standinganding emergency room listed as a use but in every other case it was medical office it was medical use it was health care use it was health care office it was other office they are in you find them located not next to hospitals that defeats the point you want to put them closer to where people live so you find these these oftentimes, as Ms. Miskel poured out, there's one in boarding that's in a strip, it's in a inline retail. You find them next to banks. You find them next to shopping centers, in shopping centers, you find them next to restaurants. You find them in commercial districts. You find them closer to residential districts because they're trying to reach out to people to have access to healthcare when they need it quickly. So it makes sense. These facilities were born out of a rural context and then evolved into a suburban model. So they are not institutional uses. They are properly classified as medical office. We actually found there are age urstictions that not only allow them in commercial districts as medical offices, but they prohibit hospitals in those same districts. So they are not tethered to institutional locations. These are places that are reaching out to people that are closer to where they live and work. And so on all this topic as well, I would like to introduce you to Lindsay Libes, who's a planner and vice president of Civil Engineering Department at WGI. And before she does start, I do want to mention I feel so left out. I was a civil engineer for six years in North Carolina. In the 90s, I've been practicing law since 2001 as a land use attorney. So that's 25 years. So 30 years total as a land use attorney as a civil engineer. I've worked as a city attorney for the city of Dorao, city attorney for the town of Marathon. I've represented the state of New Jersey, the center for planning excellence in Louisiana. I've been special land use counsel for Pickin County, Colorado. And I've worked for the Kentucky bluegrass, Louisville greater metropolitan region. So I do think I'm also an expert in this subject matter. And so with that, I'll pass it on to another expert. Lindsay. Thank you. Good evening. Thank you, Michael. For the record, I'm Lindsay Libis with WGI. I am an AICP certified land planner. This will be my 18th year in the land development industry, of which the entirety of it has been spent here in Southeast Florida. Throughout my career, I've been involved in projects that have freestanding emergency rooms. These almost always consistently, as we've been speaking about tonight, are classified as either medical office or medical center uses. We see this in jurisdictions throughout our region, not just in Palm Beach County. I know that Ms. Miskel said you all do your own thing and that we don't follow the county, but this isn't just specific to the county. This is jurisdictions throughout our region, north all the way south to Monroe. The overwhelming majority classified this use as medical office or medical center. This is consistent with what I've known of this use throughout my career. Like Michael said, these uses are typically in office districts, retail commercial districts, mixed use districts. The staff report actually called out a specific example was one of three. I believe it was the second one, the Delray Medical Center on Lantana Road. That was approved in Palm Beach County back in 2014. I was on that project team. We worked with Palm Beach County to classify this use as a medical center, which is now a medical office in the code. It is in inline retail. It co-exist with restaurants, with residential nearby. it's directly adjacent to single family residential neighborhoods. It's got other uses in there, it's got retail uses. And so this use was approved back in 2014 and has been functioning successfully since. I also read through the staff report. It was well written, it was technically sound. And the examples really justified staff's interpretation of the medical use, zoning classification to allow free standing ERs. Looking at all of that data, looking at analyzing the staff report, pulling on my own professional experience, I wholeheartedly agree with this use being medical office. It's what we see everywhere. This wouldn't be anything different than what has been successful in other jurisdictions. I'm happy to answer any questions that you have. And I thank you for your time. Thank you Lindsay. Sorry. So I just and since there was some case law that was mentioned I do love this stuff so I like to point out a couple of things you know I love when people cherry law. And in this case, it was mentioned that these were findings by the court or the court you read were just the court reciting rules. It wasn't the court. It wasn't the holding of the decision. Ironically, a lot of those cases, the holding was in favor of the landowner. And I'll tell you why. Because when counsel cited the Carol case, the Carol case does in fact say what she says it says, that they are bound by the language of the code, specifically in that case, they were bound by the definition that was described in the ordinance for the use. In this case, medical office is not defined. There's never been a definition of medical office in the code. So this is a completely different case. This is a case where there was a definition in the code. And the city was trying to argue that it could be expanded based on a common language definition. The court said, no, it's defined in the code. That's why it is. In this case, medical office is not defined in the code. It's always been interpreted by staff. And so, and the reason why that is is because if you look at other cases like the Prasad case, which is a far more recent case out of the second district in 2020, in that case, the court explained that municipal ordinances are subject to the same rules of construction and statutes. However, since zoning regulations are in degradation of private property rights, word used in a zoning ordinance should be given their broadest meeting when there is no definition. That's what you have here. And the ordinance should be interpreted in favor of the property owner. That's what your staff has always done. They've simply followed the law and that's what they're continuing to do here. Mr. Marshall, before you go on, to give me that case citation in the spot site, please? Absolutely. So the pursuit case is 310-7 third-493. What's the spot site for the quote, please? It is. It's on the end of page 495. Continuing on to page 496. 310-7 third-493. Correct. Alright, I'll try to find it..95. Continuing on to page 496. 310, southern, third, 493. Correct. All right. I'll try to find it. Thank you. Go on, please. Good morning. Okay. So. So that's that. That's. With respect to the parking. So staff that explain, you've got one large parking field, 73 spaces. All those spaces are available to the FSCR on the weekends. After 5 PM and to 8 PM in the morning, this is, takes nothing away from the office because the office is not there. This is very typical in a share parking situation. There's no parking tonight for the office. Free staying in the emergency room has 73 spaces. Far more has 10 more than what's required under the erroneous or not erroneous. The night for the office, free staying emergency room has 73 spaces. Far more has 10 more than what's required under the erroneous or not erroneous. The onerous standard requirement of 5.7 per thousand, which is the one for every 175. It's only during the day when the office is there that there are 25 spaces available to the free staying emergency room. So just want to make sure that's cleared up and I know staff covered it, but I just want to cover it again. Again, it's well known that the Boak Returns Medical Office Standard was excessive. The 5.7 per thousand has been talked about forever. It wouldn't this case require 63 spaces for use to only generate 17 vehicles into peak hour. The ITE industry standard rate is 1.88 spaces per thousand. That is four times less than the 5.7 that's required. So it's clearly very different. HCA, as it was explained, they have nine of these facilities in South Florida, they have 54 across the state. If anybody understands the parking needs of these facilities, HCA understands it. They know better and most, they own them, they operate them, they've done it for years. They keep track of patient data and we'll discuss that in a minute as well. But that is the evidence. It was discussed with staff, HCA shared their experience, the ITE standard is there, the trip generation is there. All of this is evidence. All of this supported the decision to recommend approval by staff and why PNZ supported it. It wasn't as if though as suggested there was a dearth of evidence, there wasn't, there was evidence provided, there was no evidence to the contrary, PNZ made the right decision. Now with 5690, I do want to discuss it a little bit. This was also presented at PNZ. This was presented to you in August. We discussed the city's observations of these medical office facilities in the city. And if you look at them, it is true. The special medical facility had the highest park in demand. That is, it had 84% occupancy of its parking field in the afternoon. The next highest parking demand was medical office. And you can see those are all the ones in the middle. In fact, the medical office at the top pretty much had the same occupancy as that really high special medical facility. So there are some medical offices that have parking demands just like these outpatient surgery centers this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this thisgent care, as we mentioned earlier, is very much like FSCR, except they have more patients because they treat more conditions. The FSCR is more limited because it's limited to emergencies. So when you look at this evidence that was presented in August, and again at PNZ, you can see the urgent cares have a far less parking demand than the medical office or the special medical. But it was the medical office that's in the middle there that was reduced. And the urgent care and the special medical care and then freestanding because you didn't have any data on it were lumped together even though you can see even from the city's observations they have wildly different parking demands. Also presented was the ITE data. The ITE data has the same sort of stratification of parking demand. If you look the surgery centers are the highest at 8.5 for thousand, then the medical office which you already do and then really low is the free standing emergency rooms again just like the city's observations with respect to urgent care, they were the lowest parking demand. So all of this was discussed at PNZ, that's how they came about to understand the parking demands. But again, at the end of the day, 5698 had no effect on this application, because this application was already seeking a deviation from the 5.7 per thousand space that applied to all medical uses, and they continue to apply to this use. So it was status quo. There was no change. There was no benefit that we could even try to claim from it. There certainly wasn't a detriment. It just is what it is. It didn't change. So that's the competence of substantial evidence. And I'm glad that they mentioned the Snyder case, because you are engaged in a very different function when you're legislating as opposed to whenever you're conducting a quasi-judicial hearing. Legislative decisions by local governments are given huge deference by courts. All you have to do is do not have an irrational decision. Your decision has to be rationally related to a legitimate state purpose, right? So you just can you can actually reasonably guess. So it makes sense. You didn't have data on free standing emergency rooms. Okay, that's rational. You didn't do anything. You didn't have any data. But as Snyder explains, since the property owner's right to own and use his property as constitutionally protected, review of any government action denying or bridging that right, is subject to close judicial scrutiny. Effective judicial review, constitutional due process, and other essential requirements of law all necessitated the government agency applied, legislated, land use restrictions to particular parcels, a private owned land must state reasons for the action that denies the use of the land and must make findings a fact and a record of its findings sufficient for judicial review. So it is a very different inquiry. So when this was in a quasi-judicial setting before PNZ, they relied relied on competent substantial evidence Industry data is staff reports and staff opinions is Staff's parking observations that we just discussed is special expertise of The applicants engineer of the city's professional staff that is speculation is not thinking that oh there may be a problem or you know we don't really know everything you what you hear from the app from the app is a lot of adverbs and adjectives it's extreme it's unprecedented it's excessive that's not confidence of central evidence you have to have facts to prove the extreme you have to have facts to prove these things they You have to have facts to prove these things. They're just throwing out adjectives. They don't have any data. So that's why P&Z approved it. We did say to P&Z at the time though, that we'd be more than happy to accept the condition that requires more data before we can pull the building permit. Lay that out there. And then whenever the appeal was filed, that's what we did. We went and collected data at five locations. And what those showed you was that the maximum observed parking in all these locations during the day from eight to five, which is when it's sharing with the office, was between 10 and 19 spaces. We then took that though and we adjusted it based on season and we added a 15% turnover. And you can see the highest observed rate was the DARREN square which is up in I guess Port Saint-Lusche and it required 2.06 spaces per thousand that's 24 spaces. This applicant is providing 25 spaces which is higher than any observed it's applying and 25 on this floor area is 2.21 spaces. So they're providing a higher parking rate than any observed. And all the observed with the exception of dormant square are actually lower than the IT rates. So that shows you that the IT rates are not stale. These counts were taken the first week of this March, two weeks ago. Mr. Marshall, I'll give you a little extra time because of the questions back and forth, but can you conclude please, or you can borrow from your submission time, if you like. I thought I had 25. You did? But I'm only a minute and a half over. Right, he started at 25. Oh, you started at 25? I'm sorry, I had no idea. Sorry, Mr. Redd, I'm so sorry. Yeah, so I'll quickly get through this. So we took parking counts. Also, HCA has patient data for all their locations. Some of this goes back years. And you can see we have the last 12 months of patient data at each of these locations. So we can see how many people came in and out of that facility over the year. We averaged that out per day. And you can see just like Mr. Jones said, it's between 30 to 50 patients The the Darwin Square because they had the higher parking rate Coincidentally also is the busiest one right? So that's why I had a higher parking count because it's the busier one But it's all between 30 and 50 people when you consider When you consider the Five staff for shift shift changes at seven and seven means there's 10. You've got one patient for every other, one visitor for every other patient. Average stay of two to three hours per patient, so you're going to accumulate over that two to three hour period. We end up with parking rates. Again, at Darrow and the highest one is 2.05 and 23 spaces. You probably notice how similar two completely different data sets, the counts and the patient data, resulted in 18 required versus 19 required at Borton, 19 and 19, 24 and 23, 13 and 18. Two completely different data sets gave you completely consistent data, all of which show that the observate is lower than ITE, is lower than what we're providing in this case. And so, and so, and so, and so, and so, and so, and so, and so, and so, and soellant because if you took these buildings, these exact same buildings and you put them across the street. Br Brick has a parking rate of 2,000 per thousand for office and 2,000 for medical office. So this exact same building, exact same use across the street only requires 53 spaces. That's 29 spaces less than what this applicant is providing on their property. Or even still, if Brick got control of this property, which they're dying for, then they can roll it into their master plan. And again, they only have to provide 53 spaces. They have how they can complain about this applicant providing 82, when they can provide 53 without a technical deviation, based on parking standards that were justified by ITREE rates only. No observation studies, no nothing. So and this is not like, I'm not theorizing, if you look at their master plan, they've got 80,000 square feet of medical office. This is eight times more floor area than the 10,000 proposed here. And it is not, as they said, freestanding emergency room. So obviously it's going to be a medical use that has a higher parking demand. So eight times the number for area of a higher parking demand, and they're only providing a little less than three times the amount of parking. 160 spaces for 80,000 square feet. On the driveway reservoir, you see it's know, you see, it's 13 feet, it's an effective of 43 feet. There's the turning movements. I have, we have our civil engineer here, he can go over what his conversations were with city staff as they went through the review of this and why everyone was comfortable with this facility being able to handle the turning movements. But you know, you can stack two fire trucks. The one fire truck can stack in the driveway there. It doesn't even have to be in the throat. But you can stack another one in the throat as well. And we don't, even assuming that there's going to be a fire truck that comes along with the EMS, we don't think that it has to be the case. You guys can say that you can't do that. Make the EMS with the fire truck, go to Boca Regional, what they do today. You can make that a condition, it's fine. We don't think there's that many ambulances anyway. We have data from Boeing Beats where they average. 0.2 ambulance trips per day. That's 45 trips all of last year. Palm Beach Gardens 51 trips all of last year. That is one ambulance every week and a half. Now sometimes there is a delivery from the facility of a stabilized patient that goes to the hospital, but that's not an emergency situation that patient is stabilized. If you look at the Darwin Square numbers, that's the busiest one, and you can see 90 total EMS last year. So, yeah, if you would please. So, this is a lot of speculation and a lot of fearmongering that you're hearing. For a use, they say that some of these ideas and speculations may not be ideal, but this is a facility. What is ideal is that you are protecting your citizens, you're providing critical medical care where people need it. Thank you very much. If you'll say there are please questions, council members. I have a few. Could you go back a few slides please? Sure. It was the slide that had the 120 parking spaces in the different table there. Thank you. Right. So it was your argument below that you only needed what the 82 Be caught and your the thrust of your argument is is because it's a single user We don't have to worry about the office as much as if it were a different user. Is that right basically? Well, I'm telling you is that we're providing 57 spaces for the office the 25 is being provided for the emergency room is justified through the data we present. Okay, that's what you have. You're leaving the office alone as it is. You're seeing the 57. But the point is that their office technical deviations given all the time. As I have here on the bottom, if you give the office a 10% reduction from 57 to 50, that provides 32 spaces for the medical office. That's still 21 spaces more than brick would provide for this same building. On this property if they acquired it, or directly across this little telecom drive street. And you're saying the difference between what brick would be acquired is because of the enhanced mobility designation or something else? Right, because of the, they have a reduced parking requirement that is based on ITE data. And only reason why this problem- Under enhanced mobility, under that designation. Correct. Okay. Right. Which is the neighboring property. This property could be enhanced mobility, but for the fact it's not 100 acres. So the only way it can be enhanced mobility is if it becomes part of that. I understand. And when that happens, it's gonna have 53 spaces not 82 I understand can you go one slide forward I think you had the driveway of reservoir in the two ambulances there It's more than one Going the wrong way. No, you're going the right way. No, I think I think oh there. Yeah that one. Thank you Maybe it's a question for your traffic engineer. If you've got a fire vehicle, fire rescue vehicle number two is indicated. Can someone exit from the property? Yeah, so we'll have our engineer talk to you, but the parking in the rear here is staff parking. The public entrance is on the north side of the building. That's where all the parking is. Residents, people that will drive straight up, that pavre driveway, the park, and drive back out. If there are two fire trucks there, I don't know why there be two fire trucks there, but there are two fire trucks there for seven minutes, I think it's worth it to make someone have to enter an exit out of that right-hand side of the driveway if you're saving someone's life. You're saying you can exit on the north-east corner of what you're seeing now because of the shared access over the office building and proceed out that way. There's another driveway, that's right. Thank you. Mr. Donaldson. John Donaldson, 12773, 4th till Boulevard. I've been a professional engineer for 37 years in the state of Florida. I've been qualified as an expert in traffic and transportation engineering in 20 counties in Florida. And I have a PTOE designation. Getting back to your original question. For some reason, the fire truck is shown in the middle of the driveway. So if the fire truck is coming in as it should be, and I don't even know how you get the fire truck in that position, but the fire truck is where it should be, yes, a vehicle can exit at the same time a fire truck comes in. All right, thank you. Yes, sir. All right, further questions? Mr. Chomsen, this one's for, I think it relates relates more to a comment that you made Mr. Marshall earlier about the existing uses of urgent care facilities in lurb You it said that you had made reference to the existence of some of those correct when we're those open to your call You know, I don't have the exact date, but I you know, I've seen that urgent care of. I feel like it was there. It's been there for a few years. The one on in New West Poland's in the RB1, I think it's been there longer. I know they've been there since before COVID. I don't have the exact date. I'm sure staff can get it, but it wasn't this year. Right. And then specifically the one that's in the Lurp, the one on Yamato. correct. It's a few years old it seems. Yeah, okay. That's only a question I had. Thank you for the questions. All right. We'll open up the public. the one that's in the lurch, the one on Yamato. Correct. It's a few years old, it seems. Yeah. OK. That's all the question I had. Thank you for the questions. All right. We'll open up the public hearing now. I'll call up people in the order of which they submitted cards. And then anyone else who's been sworn can speak. If you haven't been sworn, would want to speak. We'll have you swear you in. Ross Donahue, Ari Workshopter, and pardon me, I'm trying my best with the handwriting, Gershon, Zarea. And if you've been called, we have plenty of seats in the front, why don't you just take your seat up and you can move it along. I know it's late, we're almost in the morning. Thank you, Mr. Donahue. Good evening, Mayor. Deputy Mayor, almost morning in city council members, Ross Donahue, 7644, Fairway Trail, right around the corner over here in Hidden Valley. Wanted to come here tonight. I've sat in front of the council a number of times over the years, and a number of different capacities. I've sat here in defensive green space, I've sat here arguing for development, and here I'm standing for health care. As a, oddly enough, this is the first time I'm talking about something that's this close to where we're standing, right around the corner, equally around the corner is my home. Again, what I've always appreciated the Council for in Belgrade, tone 4 is balanced development. By no means am I or my friends in Hidden Valley against development, it's just doing it thoughtfully. So how can we preserve green space, grow our city and do it in a responsible way? To me, this is the last part where this is a responsible way. As we grow, Boca Regional, even with its massive growth, is ill-suited to serve the needs of the community, especially right over here in Hidden Valley. We are a distance from both regional and from their biomedical and access to emergency care is critically important. Me personally, I have a daughter with severe NFA access allergies, so having access to that care is critically important for my family and also is just a value add to the to our city. So to me this is a no-brainer. It was approved by staff, it's approved by P and Z. It's a value add to the city. Actually to me I'm a little bit surprised I think is a value add to the development that the that there the appealer is proposing that those residents and staff or anyone that would lease those properties would benefit from this free standing emergency room as well. Also operated by an incredible provider with long-term evidence of providing good care in the state of Florida. That's it. Thank you. Are you worth, Schafter? Thank you. Good evening. My name is Dr. R. E. Warchf, after a little bit of 70, 40-mander in drive. Thank you for the opportunity to come in on the proposed free standing emergency department which is being built with sitting in the less parking that could require. Briefly in my double board certified surgeon both Antian state medicine have been practicing in Boquatone for 20 years. In addition to being a co-chairman of Antian allergy associates of Florida, the second largest Antigrupe United States, I'm also currently the president chief of the medical staff at Boquatone Regional Hospital. Additionally, I'm an experienced sleep specialist on staff at Delray Medical Center. My remarks tonight reflect my own perspective and I based my own experience as a physician who has provided emergency care in this community for the past two decades. My sub- specials on staff at Delan Medical Center. My remarks tonight reflect my own perspective and are based on my own experiences of physician who has provided emergency care in this community for the past two decades. My subject matter now is also informed by years serving in leadership positions at the local state and national level. Additionally, several of my partners were also developers of the Buckeitone Outpatient Surgery and Laser Center on Glades Road, as well as the Buckeoko Clinic on Clipmore Road. These collective experiences have highlighted the crucial need for adequate parking and medical facilities for patients, family, staff, and physicians. As a physician, I can attest how critical it is to not circumvent parking requirements. The above facilities developed by my partner is strictly adhered to parking code. The necessity of sufficient parking becomes even more crucial for an emergency department. The urgency fell by patients, family, staff, and especially physicians cannot be overstated. If the applicants wish to establish a free standing emergency department, it will be far more beneficial to the community if they chose a location that complies with existing regulations. From a broader policy standpoint, I have significant concerns about this project as a whole, specifically the development of an itinerant emergency room. How is the community better served by transporting patients from this facility north to Boyton Beach by passing 111 trauma center or Southwest by passing a tertiary care teaching medical facility with a billion dollars in renovations? The guiding principle behind my decisions whether for individual patients or broader policy matters is asking myself what would I do for a family member. I believe this committee would find it difficult to argue that their own family members would be better served by being transported out of this community for specialty care or possible hospital admission. Thank you. Dr. Pavego, come back. You have experienced, your experience involves, what's your experience in emergency rooms specifically? I take a call. Roaching in for emergencies. All right, thank you. Yeah, all right, thank you. Thank you. Hello, Gershohn is wearing 4631 Northwest Third Avenue of Boque Raton. Me and my family moved down here from New York in 2020 to get away from New York. And we came down here and we love it down here. I live in one of the very few, at least in my area, two-story houses in Boca Raton in January of 2023. My son, who at that point was two, fell down a flight of steps. Called Hatsala, got them. They came very quickly, and I asked them, I want to go to Boca Raton. Boca Regional. And they told me, you can't go to Boca Regional. You have a child. They don't have a pediatric ER and I was like, I really want to go to book or to own regional, I don't want to go to West Boka. I said you can't go. So we had to go to West Boka. It was a difference of, I would say, in terms of from the time we got into the ambulance the time to get to the hospital, probably about 10 minute difference. My son, again, fell down to flat-a-steps. He had a split in his skull. We had, thank God he's fine. He's now almost four and we love him so much. But he had one staple in his head. And the ability for me to get to a hospital or any emergency room in a quick amount of time is key when you're talking about head trauma. And I didn't have that availability for when I needed it. Additionally, my daughter, actually this past November, fell down outside the house. She was running with her other sister. And she fell down and cut herself underneath her chin. Now, this didn't have to go to an ER. But we ended up going to Urgent Care. And the bedside manner for the doctor wasn't great. I'm not going to say which ER, which Urgent Care was. But, urgent care it was. Um, but my assumption is that if I have a doctor that's, you know, specializing to treat patients, um, in, in a, in a specific manner, um, they, uh, you know, the, the situation would have been completely different. Um, my daughter ended up having, up having glue instead of skin, instead of stitching because the doctor kind of scared her from getting a stitch. But again, if we were able to get to a emergency room that would have been able to provide care for a pediatric patient, things would have been better. Thank you. Thank you. Evan Goldstein, Robert Bader, Glenn Goulish. Good evening everybody and thank you for your time. My name is Evan Goldstein. My address is 2517 Seminole Circle. I apologize if I sound even more tired than you. My shift in the ER started this morning at 545. I am the immediate past president of the medical staff at Booker's Own Regional Hospital. I'm head of the emergency physician group, and this is my 32nd year practicing there. I have a unique perspective that I can bring tonight because not only do I practice emergency medicine and run the group there, but I group also earned an urgent care on lions and glades for 10 years, and we're currently staffing the new off-campus ER that Baptist has built in Mission Bay. And I just want to clarify a few misstatements and maybe some misinformation. I'm sorry that your son was not brought to Bookka Regional. We actually do have board certified emergency medicine doctors who are trained in pediatric emergency medicine. We don't have in patient so if your son had to be admitted to the hospital he'd be transferred to a pediatric center. We do have fully trained and fully staffed emergency department for kids. The numbers that have been presented for what the expectations are at the proposed center aren't anywhere close to the numbers that we have. And I can speak factually, not other locations, not other HCA hospitals, but facts. We opened on the 10th of December last year, and in one day we had 14 ambulances. So we're averaging probably two or three ambulances per day going in, but every patient who's admitted to the hospital gets transferred out by ambulance. So we had days, one day with with 11 admissions. That day we had 14 ambulances. I'm not sure how the business model for HCA worked for their staffing, but during our day shift, we have 20 providers, 20 staff, so we need 20 parking places. That's a fact. I am sworn, my testimony is honest. Our busiest time is from one to five. One to five. We see 75 to 80% of our patients during our day shifts. And I'm not sure if I should be sharing our proprietary information, but we just opened and we're seeing more than 50 patients per day. So I suspect that the numbers that we're given to staff to make their calculations and to quantify how much parking is needed is not going to be what would happen if it opened. Having the ambulance block the main entrance, coming and going will be an issue. If you looked at the parking, the majority of the parking for the patients is out front. If you look at where the ambulances are, that's going to be totally blocked. So thank you for your time. I appreciate that. Dr. Holdon, please. A few questions. Yes. What's the square footage roughly of the facility out on 441? I believe and don't quote me on this it's around 14,000 square feet. Okay. And do you have any observation of the number of additional cars that are coming in with each patient? Sometimes the patients being brought by someone so there's right? Right. It's probably if I had to guess 1.3 to 1.5 because along with the patient comes a family member, a concerned parent, a grandparent, a friend, you know people are not on social media telling people where they are so their friends are coming and we're fortunate we're in Mission Bay because in addition to the requisite parking that we needed, we're able to also, I guess, unofficially use parking from the shopping center. And you said you had 20 staff there. How many beds do you have in that facility for patients? We have 18. 18. And oftentimes they are all full. Do you have any other firsthand knowledge of an accepted ratio? Can I would it be a reasonable to reject down if you've got 20 staff and 18 beds that that kind of ratio is going to carry down if there's a facility that is 11 or 12 that would be around 14 15 staff. I don't see how an emergency department that has everything that they have to have including CAT scan, X-ray, lab, ultrasound, registration, security, cleaning people, nurses, doctors, techs can run a 10 bed unit with four people. If they do, that is unsafe, I would not want to be a patient there. Especially if I'm the second or third patient there, and I'm having a heart attack or a stroke. All right, thank you. Any other questions? Thank you, doctor. Oh, please. Are there instances in the new surgical center, or the new freestanding emergency room, where the patient would potentially be transferred to West Boca Medical Center, which is directly across the street? Only if a parent requested for a child, we have a transfer agreement with Joe Di'Amaggio Hospital where they will send an ambulance to pick up the child. So our kids, unless the parents ask, go to Joe D'Amaggio. Everybody else goes to Book Return Regional Hospital unless they're a trauma in which case they'll go to Del Rey or in which case BAPB no beds, and we're able to then transfer them to one of the other Bap's hospitals in in Bointin Beach or Del Rey. I guess the Bethesda hospitals east and west are both in Bointin Beach. That rarely happens during prime season, but in general and they go right to a bed, directly to a bed. They don't go to the ER, they get admitted, and they go to a bed, and they're seen by the doctor in the bed. But are there instances, or let's say even hypothetically, could there be instances where simply transferring the patient directly across the street would be the best for the patient? No, because that critical patients are people who are having heart attacks and strokes, and they don't have level one treatment for either of those conditions. So, as someone has a heart attack, they've got to go to a designated heart center where they have cardiac catheterization and bypass capabilities. They don't have that at TelRAX, excuse me, at Westboka. Same thing, they're not a level one stroke center. Does Boka regional have those facilities? Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much. Further questions? All right, thank you, doctor. Robert Bader, Glenn Golisch, and Juan Quisato. Robert Bader, 260 East, Boca Raton Road. I've been here since 1999, and since I've been here in medicine as well. Obviously things have changed a lot in the healthcare industry for the entire time I've been here. For instance, when we used to go to the doctors, we'd go to our internist. We don't go to internist anymore, right? The primary care doctors. It's totally different. Conscious medicine was born here in Bocawertown, Florida, and we have probably the highest concentration of conscious doctors here, and it's very hard for people to find an internist. It's very, very difficult just to find an internist. It's also hard to get into C-Auto-Returnist when you have an internist for, not necessarily critical issues, but even something like a flu. You call your internist and I want to come in and get tested. They say no problem. Let's see you next week, Thursday. Well, that doesn't do me any good. I need to be seen now. So now we have all urgent care centers that have opened up all over, which try to fill the void that's needed for these patients. And urgent care centers are very very different than what we get from our primary care doctor, which is different care. They handle very minor type of things like minor lacerations, minor injuries and things like colds and flu's and COVID. And now, of course, you're talking about emergency rooms and you've already heard the differences. Not all emergency rooms are the same. They're all very different. You have cardiac, cardiac care centers. You have ones that specialize and other things like stroke. They're all different. So when you get into an ambulance, depending on what you have, you're going to go to the emergency room, either it's closest, that can, that's closest, that can handle your immediate needs. And it's not all the same. And now you have something brand new. You have something called a freestanding emergency room, which is really a new concept. Four hours ago, if you asked all of our neighbors, hey, what's a freestanding emergency room? They'd look you saying, what the hell are you talking about? What's a freestanding? It's a new concept, a newer concept. Now, I'm not saying I'm a fan of HC, I'm not saying I'm not. They want to call an emergency room because they want to get reimbursed at emergency room rates. But it's very different than what we would normally call an emergency room. And the care there is not exactly the same because they provide a lot less care than you would get at any of the other emergency rooms. But it's something that is certainly was used, and that's why they have these facilities that are all over. It certainly is used and makes care more accessible to our residents. I understand your concerns of the transportation. I think we all have those concerns of bypassing the nearest hospital to go to your hospital. Well, that's why they're coming into these areas. come here because they want to pull patients and grab the the bokeh or a ton pot. But it does serve a purpose and just as this center is looking to serve a purpose in the community, all of us have plenty of experiences and emergency rooms unfortunately with us are our family members and most of them aren't necessarily great experiences, especially when you go there for very minor things when you're there for eight hours to get to get care, which is not fun for anybody. So... members and most of them aren't necessarily great experiences, especially when you go there for very minor things, when you're there for eight hours to get to get care, which is not fun for anybody. So for the community, it certainly has its place. It's not, again, I'm not a fan of calling it an emergency room because it's not the same as what our concept of what an emergency room is and provides to, it provides the people. They're all very different. All of those scenarios. Regarding parking, I have a tremendous, a lot of experience with parking in my own facility where I am in Deerfield Beach, my main office, where we are well over. We have 3.3 spots per thousand. I have 2,000 square feet. I'm concluding 2,000 square feet. I have between 12 and 15 employees in my office at any given moment. I have eight treatment rooms. I use seven all the time all day long. So you can imagine my parking demands as as a specialist is exceptionally high and my peak time is eight to eleven thirty One to four thirty, but they're all very different. Emergency room peak times is very very different than than my peak times would be. It's just like an office peak time is very different. Thank you. Can you just tell us what you just write into it? What is your specialty and what is your profession? Because I'm assuming here, but I'd rather say it. Dermatology, surgical dermatology. Dermatology and surgical dermatology. All right, very good. All right. Thank you, doctor. All right. Any other questions? All right. Glenn Goulish and then Juan Quasado and then Robert Siemens. Hi. Glenn Goulish. First of all, thank all of you. I would never want your jobs. I'm very appreciative that you guys are serving us. I don't know how to thank you from the bottom of my heart for what you're doing. I live in 226, one Holly-Hawk Trailbook with Off-Large, but my office at 30, 10, I'm North Military. I calculated thinking about two minutes to get from my office to the new emergency room facility. I've been in the emergency room three times. I hope to God I never have to go back, but I'm sure I will. And all three times that I was there was multiple hours of waiting. One time which I would never say about thing about Mocha Regional because I saved my life and I had pretty bad COVID, but I was there for hours before I got admitted. And I can tell you that the emergency room needs are desperately needed in Boga, and the amount of people that have been moving down here, just the amount of houses that are for sale, my neighborhood, or zero. So you can just imagine what's going on in the world, that there's one for sale. That's about it. And the amount of people that have moved, even just my synagogue alone, we went from 400 families, we were at 1400 families in the matter of a few years. So the needs for emergency care is definitely up. I'm not a doctor, I'm in the life insurance financial planning business. But I do know that my office is very close to there and it would be very helpful to know that when there was someone in my building that fell down the stairs and they went off to hospital, I don't know which hospital they went to, but I'm confident like my three experiences, it's twice in my kids and once myself, the amount of time that you spend waiting in a burn to rooms are disastrous. And that can't be argued by anybody in this room. And so I think the need for it, especially something that's so close to my office, is desperate. And so that's really all I have to say. Again, thank you for everything you're doing. Wish it on anybody, so thank you, thank you. You want to say it though? Good morning. One case, I don't get 55, 16 hosties, seven, five in you. And I've actually come to it from a practical perspective. I live in Hortis, Bokar, Raton, and actually I've had many emergencies in my family where I have to go to take some of them to the emergency care. And the Bokar, Raton community, Bokar, Raton Regional Hospital is excellent, but it's actually far from me. And so when we have an emergency with my kid who is a smatic or my wife who is a smatic, severe asthma, you have to look for the closest place to have the treatment on or to have them be looked at. And I think that that's something that I think it would be appreciated if we have more emergency care facilities closer to the house. In addition to that, I think that it's important to remember that this section of the code will refer to the LERP and the LAS for medical use. In addition to that, the applied overlay, which is the plan mobility development actually encourages you to actually have multiple uses, mixed uses, to promote and to help actually the community around it. Remember that we have 25,500 new residents on the PMD, plus the ones that are coming up with the CNIMD shortly after that one. So, very, very much a bunch of residents leading in close proximity to this facility that will benefit greatly from an emergency care closer to their houses. So I encourage you to listen to your staff. They review the data, they review the code, they actually recommended the approval of the project and plans on board did the same thing. I think you will be at the service to the community to not to have this facility approved when the staff has recommended approval for it. Thank you. Thank you, Robert Siemens. Here? No? Oh, yeah. Sharon Stahl-Wexler. Stephen Alter. Good evening. My name is Steve Alter, 5183 Northwest 25th Way in Boca Ratona. I live in Broken Sound. I'm probably the least educated of all these doctors who are putting all these facts back and forth, but I may have the most experience in all the emergency rooms. I We a metastatic cancer stage four. I'm in remission. But I can tell you that there's a giant chasm between having to go to the emergency room for a heart attack and some other service, like a scan or something like that. I've been to all the hospitals, both a regional, West Bocca, they're all great hospitals. You want to spend four or five hours in a waiting room, and that's the place to go. But there is a great amount of medical care in the middle that potentially this facility can offer without going to the hospital. Going to the hospital is traumatic. It's just traumatic. I've four kids, they all went to the hospital, sitting there with other, not to mention waiting, but the other sick people that are sitting in the waiting room. So when you consider this, even though it's a money-making venture, it's clear the guy from Baptist wants something to go to Baptist, the guy from HCA wants him to go to HCA. There's a need. There's a hospital in Wasboka and a hospital in East Boka. And for all the residents that live in the middle that maybe don't have to go to a hospital, but need an urgent place to go 24 hours a day, like somebody who suffers from cancer and maybe he's just freaking out, that building, that building that we're talking about now, is a relief. It provides a service. And whether they make money or they don't make money, it doesn't really make a difference at the end of the day if they're providing a public service. As far as the parking, I can't talk to the parking or not parking, I've been to urgent cares. I've never seen them filled up. I'm assuming that I've never, I've been in an ambulance. No, never in an ambulance. The ambulance guys say, hey, do you want to go to the mobile emergency center or should we take it to the hospital? They take it to the hospital. They don't ask you where you want to go. they either take you west or east, that's where you go. So I'm... hospital, they take you to the hospital. They don't ask you where you want to go. They either take you west or east. That's where you go. So I'm in total favor of you guys approving this, whatever you call it, amendment, building that facility and allowing people like me who are getting older, who suffer from chronic conditions, they don't want to go to the hospital. It's enough hospitals that you I strongly urge this commission to pass that resolution and allow it to be built. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Stahl left. Isaac Newman. Good morning and I'm sorry for you having to be here. My name is Isaac Newman. I am a community liaison. I'm a chaplain and I am a volunteer emergency medical technician, Bokeh and Regional Hospital. And Katie, good address please. Oh sorry, yes, 2090, Ciprus Way. Bokeh and Regional Hospital is an excellent hospital and Dr. Evan Goldstein is a superstar. So I want to put that out there. That's number one. We transport many patients, not many B but we transport patients to the standalone, Bokor Regional Standalone on the 441 in Glades, and it's an excellent facility. I think they almost guarantee like 90 minutes from the time you get there until the time you get out. So it's a tremendously needed facility when you have to go to Bokor Regional, and you can wait a significant amount of time to be seen by a doctor, to see a doctor, for someone to even know that you're there. That doesn't mean that they're not good when they see you, but it just, you know, it takes time. The need for a standalone ER is critical for East Boca. Just from the waiting time alone, when you take a patient to Boca, regional, you know, I go many, many times, unfortunately, I spend a significant amount of my day in the hospital, seeing patients, bringing patients, and the wait time is, I mean, there's no excuse for a test of reality. So if we can do something to help the community a large and make sure that they're not waiting hours in an emergency room, I think it's our obligation. With that being said, another parking is critical and you know, making sure that a parking space is and you know where the parking is is critical. At the same time, you know, saving the life is probably a little bit, you know, just a drop more important. Again, like I said, I spend a significant amount of time in all the hospitals in Boca, regional being one, probably being the most I spend the most time in. The other medical center, Broward Health North, Broward and Coral Springs, I don't know if I've ever seen a time when you couldn't find the parking spot. I mean, let's be realistic here. There might be some trouble every now and again where somebody might have to wait a couple of minutes for a parking spot. But I don't think that that's a reason to say, sorry, we're not going to go ahead with the plans of a very, very much needed, critical infrastructure for the community as it's going. And that's it. Thank you. Michael Zimmerman. And then, Chaim Glazer, and those are all the cards I have. Anyone else wishing to speak doesn't come forward please. Michael Zimmerman 7399 Orange Wood Lane. After hearing this all I started framing my presentation differently realizing yes we need the facility why I'll tell you my story about April 25th of last year. My mom's in assisted living. She, I got there in the afternoon, and two aides told me that she wasn't herself. I could see she wasn't herself, but I was trying to debate what to do, because I had another experience in a hospital that we've all heard about and many of us have experienced where it's a long wait and then when you get in it's more waiting and then you end up with your 94 you end up having to stay overnight because the doctors don't want to take a chance when I looked at them and said well she's okay right? He says well she's not she's not relieving herself, but so she's a little bit, her bladder was a little bit full. And, of course, they don't want to take a chance. So right away, they put you in mid-year. So the experience I had in Boko Regional, not disparaging anybody or our hospital. I want to speak about the need. They then put us in, I got there about eight o'clock, about 10 o'clock, I think we were now in a emergency room across from the nurses desk, and I said, can we get to a room? They don't have any. We're working on it. 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock, 1 o'clock, at 1.15 o' 1.30 o'clock, I'd say, this is unacceptable. I kept my cool the whole time. And they said, well, it's going to be. It's going to happen. I said, they said we're getting the room right, she's gonna have her own room, right? They said no. I said, what do you mean no? What do you mean, no? We don't have any. I said, well, then I found that it would cost to get a room by herself. I said, what it would cost. So, we then put her in a room, I said, she have to, at $350, you can have your own room. No problem. Get me up there now. I wish I had known that earlier because I would have obviously not been sitting there for so many hours with my 94-year-old mother who is really more under-deress and kept asking me over and over again why can't we go home? Why can't we go home? So with that said, I don't know that I'm going to go to a hospital in that same situation, but I would go to an emergency care Because it sounds like it's going to be something much more efficient and it will let's take the burden off the hospitals So it's I commend you because you already proved it. I obviously want you to approve it and Let's get to bed Hi, I'm Glazer Good morning Mr Mayor. Members of the Council, Chae and Glazer. Morning, Mr. Mayor. Members of the Council, Hi, I'm Glazer, 21556, San Lorenzo Avenue, Boca Raton, Florida. I am a licensed EMT. I've been EMT for 27 years, but I'm also a school administrator here at Tora County, Boca Raton here in East Boca. We have over 130 students on a daily daily basis and when something goes wrong, I'm the guy they call. And we have our cases of kids have seizures, as mad, ex allergic reactions. But more commonly, we have the broken arms and the broken legs and the kids who fall and have cuts in stitches. And for those cases, Boca Raton Hospital is not the appropriate, I love Dr. Goldstein he's fantastic. We've brought hundreds of patients over the past two years to Boca-Ton Hospital with Hatsala as a volunteer for Hatsala. But the appropriate place right now is we have to recommend they go to West Boca and if it's three o'clock in the afternoon, it's a 45-minute trip to upglades to get all the way from East Boko all the way to 441. Having a standalone emergency center that can handle the cuts, the scrapes, the broken arms, and the stitches and things like that here and East Boko be a tremendous asset to the community. Right now I don't think there's one standalone on all of the city of Boqueratone. To have Boqueratone to join the ranks of cities that have upgraded to have this mid-level area for those emergencies that aren't the heart attacks and the strokes, I think will be a major upgrade. But in addition, I'll tell you one story that happened with Otsala, 78-year-old man named Jake. We came to him. to me he had a terrible car on his leg. He was, they were just, pints of blood on the floor when we arrived at his home. And he adamantly swore he did not want to go to the hospital. The meds were in spring training. He had tickets to the game the next day. I'm not going to the hospital. But we convinced him to go to a standalone ER. It's the same ER. It, it him. That's all he really needed. Again, so many people have this thing. I don't want to go to a hospital, especially in the elder community. I don't want to go to a hospital but standalone ER really does fill that gap and I think it is something that we get tremendous asset for the city to have a standalone ER facility here in East Spokane. Thank you. Thank you. That concludes all the cards. Anyone else wishing to speak on this matter? All right. Before we go to submissions by each of the appellant and the applicant, would anyone want to cross examine anyone else? All right. You'll have three minutes total for cross-examination, sir. So choose wisely, please identify yourself in whom you want to cross-examined. Good morning, Scott Sazlov on behalf of the appellant. I would like to cross-examine Mr. Devlin. Good morning. Hold on. Before you go that is that permitted under our code? I thought I was I'm sorry the request is to plus examinist at yes. Yes, that's very well. Go ahead. Thank you So Mr. Devlin again good morning. morning. So I listened to your presentation and I read the staff's report. And basically, do I have this right to sum it up? That staff is determined that an FSCR is allowed in Lurpe, because it's virtually distinguishable from an urgent care. And staff is allowed urgent care is under medical office in Lurpe. That is one of the contributing factors along with other ones that we mentioned in the report. Okay, but but they're virtually distinguishable. FSCRs and urgent care is according to that. They have similarities correct. Did staff perform any research or investigate with any medical professionals to see if they're virtually indistinguishable? FCR is an urgent care. We do not have any medical staff on, if that's a question, no, I did not reach out to a doctor or obviously HSA, were part of the application, so they would be, I guess, considered and healthcare professionals. And did staff perform any research or investigation to see whether, and I, FSER is freestanding emergency room, to see whether FSER is, and urgent cares are defined under Florida law. No. Well, at this time, I'd like to place into the record and give everybody a copy of the definition, the legal definition of the... I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. Do you have a copy? No, I have not been given a copy. Did I not have an additional copy? A copy here. All right. If you take a look at paragraph 13, it sets forth the definition for a free standing emergency and you agree that it states in sub-division A that it provides emergency services in care? Yes, that is what it says. All right. Turn to paragraph 30, which is the definition for an urgent care facility. Do you agree that that states that it's a facility that provides immediate but not emergent ambulatory medical care to patients? Do you see that? Urgent care center means a facility or clinic that provides immediate but not emerging and pedoring medical, yep, I agree. Okay, thank you. So was staff aware of this distinction between emergency versus non-emergency medical care, which Florida law draws between them as reflected in these definitions? That's your last question, sir. Yeah, so can you repeat the question again, sorry? Yeah, sure. I want to know if staff was aware of this distinction between emergency versus non-emergency medical care, which Florida law draws between these two facilities as reflected in these definitions. Correct. You were not aware. I was not aware of these definitions, but I think we weren't. It was from a land use zoning point of view we were making comparisons. And not what emergency procedures happen at the facility. Your time is a lapster across examination. Our code provides your three minutes is that right, Mr. Kailer? Those are the rules adapted by the council. There's three minutes under the rules. Yes, all right. Thank you. All right, anyone else here to make any cross examination of anyone else? Last call for cross examination. All right, we'll move to the closings. We'll first start with the appellant. So we've heard a lot of people talk about community need, help to live. It's good for the community. And I, to my resident of 40 years, I've spent time in the emergency room. I have three kids, so if they, unfortunately, and nobody knows more than any parent that yes, it'd be great if they were everywhere, and we have, you know, on every street corner. But that's not what the zoning allows. Nor is that a consideration when staff has to look at whether something is an allowable use is permitted in the zoning district that it happens to be in. You can't look at need, you can't look at any of that. In fact, when you look at need, that's when the five of you get to weigh in and either advise staff to bring forward to you a code amendment or one's been presented to you and then you get to decide whether it's consistent with the land use plan, it's consistent with your charter and your rules. They don't get to do that, you have to do that. That's your decision. It certainly isn't Mr. Marshall, to say that it's a medical use, and to label your pages that it's a medical use, with no evidence in the code that it's a medical use, is it bit fraudulent on his part, and cherry picking to say the least to coin a term from him. There is nowhere in the city code that says that an FSCR is a medical office use. It doesn't exist. It's not in there. It's an assumption that they're making. It's speculative on their part, and they convince staff of the same. In fact, Michael commented that the definition that you created was after the fact that they had already submitted, but the state definition was there all along. So if the city didn't have a definition, and it wasn't in the code, you certainly don't want to go to Palm Beach County. The concept that all the other cities, which is a gross exaggeration, put FSCRs in medical office, is also speculative. Palm Beach County, by the way, doesn't differentiate between medical office and office, they just don't differentiate, so an office is an office. So it isn't that they have a medical office category that allows this, it was interpreted to go in office. That's what they did. That's not relevant to you. You have your own code. You have your own charter. You have your own rules. You have your own manuals. And when you don't have it, you certainly could have looked at state law and said, hey, there's a state definition. Maybe this is applicable. You can't consider need. You have to look at the facts. And by the way, I'm not suggesting that there isn't a need. I don't know, I'm not an expert in that field. But I have read your code and it doesn't expressly provide for FSER. And the other thing that I want to end on and I am ending on this is the last case that I cited, Michael failed to comment on because it's probably the most on point case and it's a 2016 case, it was Siegel V. Lee County. And there, that was a case where there was a section of Lee County code and it was section 34-145, that's the section. And in that section, it said, unless specifically provided, the hearing examiner does not have the authority to render decisions based on equitable law in any proceeding under section 34-145A through D. The hearing examiner applied that against a code enforcement case. It wasn't articulated in A through D. He applied it. And he said, you cannot seek and you cannot put forth an equitable defense because you are banned by this section of the code. It went to Circuit Court. The Circuit Court agreed with the hearing examiner. It eventually went to the second DCA. And there they said our interpretation, and I'll read it, of the plain language. Ms. Miso, hold on. I'd like to read along. Please tell me where you're reading from. OK, I am on page two of four. OK. Last paragraph. Thank you. OK. And they say, and again, we talked about plain language. And by the way, plain and ordinary meaning is not the lawyers meeting because we might think we're extraordinary. We're certainly not ordinary. And planners have special knowledge. They wouldn't even be considered plain and ordinary. But remember, plain language rule, which he isn't refuting, of section 34145F is reinforced by the canon, and I hate to do this, of statutory construction, expressio unias est exclusio altarius, and I'm sure I didn't do that well. Under which, the mention of one thing implies the exclusion of another. And then they go on to say, applying this canon here, the exclusion of a code enforcement proceeding from section 145F means that the prohibition on consideration of equitable defenses simply does not apply to those proceedings. The county's decision to list the specific categories of proceedings to which the equitable defenses do not apply indicates its intent to permit consideration of equitable defenses in all other proceedings. So in this case, code enforcement wasn't one of the listed ones that was prohibited from using an equitable defense and hence the court said they can use it. So we have that case here. It says medical office in Lurpe. It doesn't say outpatient surgery. It doesn't say outpatient surgical center. It doesn't say freestanding emergency room. it doesn't even say outpatient care facility. It says none of that. But in your MC, your MC breaks out the uses and expresses an intent beyond just medical office. And one of them happens to be outpatient care facilities, which this is a lot closer to than a medical office. As the doctor aptly stated, they don't book appointments. They have to have multiple medical people there to care for the people that come in there. And they have significantly more than HCA are suggesting. The law does not allow you to grant a use because your staff interpreted it to fit into something when it is expressly provided and a medical office is a medical office on That note I will and thank you very much for your patients and as a resident of 40 years I to appreciate us being here and you being here to listen to our case again. Thank you very much Don't Don't leave. Please. A few questions. At least I have some. You made the expressio unius argument. How does your reliance or, excuse me, your co-councils invocation of Florida chapter, Florida statute chapter 395 on hospital licensing and regulation and that definition, tie into the argument you're making? So if, and we talked about another case, if something is ambiguous, then you may go outside of it and interpret in some way. And if you were, it would be reasonable to look at state law before you look at Palm Beach County or Coconut Creek or Palm Beach Gardens. That was where I was suggesting it. If in fact, it wasn't ambiguous. But my position is it's not ambiguous. And in fact, I wasn't going to say this, but I was walking my daughter's dog on Sunday. And I ran into my neighbors with all their dogs. They were about 12 of us, two of them were doctors. And I asked them, what does medical office mean to you? And I didn't ask the doctors first. My daughter said, well, it's my doctor's office. It's when I go to the doctor. Another person said they're dentist. The doctors said a few things. They expanded. It wasn't just a doctor. It could be a specialist that treats someone. It could be an orthopedic surgeon. It could be a number of them. And they went into a long explanation. When I asked them, the next question, what do you think of freestanding emergency rooms? Some of a couple of the people had no idea, including my daughter, what that was. The two doctors said, absolutely not. It's not a freestanding emergency room. They don't take appointments. They're open 24-7. They're treating much more serious cases. If I called my doctor and I said I was having hard problems, he'd tell me to go to the ER. He would not tell me to come into his office. And I would have the sense not to go to urgent care. But even urgent care books appointments, not always some take walk-ins, but they book appointments as well. So to suggest that a freestanding emergency room that is emergent in their treatment is the same as a medical office where you book to go in and get, you know, a mammogram or whatever we are doing is just not reasonable. And that's what you have to think about when you look at the plain meaning of the words in any event. Thank you very much for long, Ms. Dean. One more question. Oh, sure. How do you respond to Mr. Marshall's argument that EMD would have a lower parking calculation and of this project, or on the other side of telecom, it would pass with line colors? So EMD is required to do far more in the way of multimodal obligations than they have any obligation to do. We have to have a circulator. We have to create bike networks and pedestrian networks that are networks on steroids. We have to have certain times where the bus that's circulating to go to the trial rail is operating under. We have streetscape requirements. None of those apply to him. They apply to us. And by the way, while the code that you all adopted as well does allow us the opportunity to have certain restrictions on the amount of parking that we have to do. That doesn't mean we won't provide the parking. We don't even have the parking laid out yet. It's a master plan approval, but we have to have a mix of uses that meets the EMD. And by the way, FSERs are not included as a permitted use. So if he chose to join in with us, which he certainly could because it's in the aggregate, he would still have a problem because we can't do it either. I mean why doesn't his argument that, why doesn't his argument about the other side of telecom relate to the contensions about the technical deviation in terms of detrimental and injurious or special special circumstances? Well, I used as an example the streetscape requirement in EMD. If they're using essentially the swale to the 43 feet number that they gave you when they only really have 13 feet from the property line, if they're relying on extra right of way to give the space that is needed for those vehicles to go in and out of the facility, then we're going to have a problem putting in the right of way, some of the right of way improvements that are required under the M.D. Thank you, any other questions? I have one, Mayor. Ms. Miskel, how would you respond to Mr. Marshall's argument that if we were to find that this freestanding emergency room was not permitted within a medical office and thus would render a bunch of existing facilities within Lurp non-conforming? Is there a way where you could talk about that? Yes, yes, I'd be happy to. Well, first of all, and qualifying this, Mr. Devlin provided me with a commercial note, because I'm only aware of one. I think it's the MD now, and it's in the blue lake shops or blue shops, whatever it's called, which is on the south side. And that is not just straight lurb. That's a commercial note. It's a master plan approval. It required that owner or user to come to you for special approval. And it has a host of restrictions because it's in the commercial node. And I haven't looked at all of that, but it's not straight-lurped. It's different from us. It's not the same. Now, their site, however, is not a commercial node. It is straight-lurb. So it doesn't have any of the benefits from the master plan approval, or for that matter, any of the obligations. All right, thank you, any other questions? All right, thank you Ms. Miskel. Original applicants, summation. So it's really late and I've been up about 21 hours. So if I fall over while I'm talking about apologies in advance, we could sit here all night to be honest. I mean, if you attorneys here will know that statutory construction is more an art than anything and we can use cannons to say this or that. I do think though it's fairly settled in the law that one well and by the way your city code gives the city attorney the authority to interpret codes to interpret your comp plan. I think it's section 3244 or something like that. And it also says that the city attorney's opinions on interpretation of the code is binding on city staff and officials so or but so it is the role of staff to interpret the code. They are the agency charged with interpreting their code. They have always interpreted the undefined medical office use to include a variety of different facilities, including Urgeycare. And by the way, the state law licensing is different than zoning in land use. Adentist probably has a different license than orthodontist, but there's both still in a medical office setting. So just because you have a different license from the state, that has nothing to do with the land use characteristics of the use. So it is very much like an urgent care. It has similar externalities, low parking. It is low-massing. It doesn't emit noise from the building itself. It is a similar use in that you're delivering medical services. And again, that's how your staffers interpreted. That's consistent with Florida law, which says when you have terms like this that are undefined that they are To be interpreted broadly and in favor of the use of property that's what your staff has done over and over again And that's what they've done today You know because somebody wants it to be different But I you know, it's not us saying we look that all kinds of jurors stations We spent a lot of time working with staff and may not we may not have discussed it with Mr. Devon personally, but I know we discussed with Mr. Shad, we discussed with his senior planner. We provided him the license requirements. We explained to him what the signage requirements are for free standing emergency rooms because they do have special signs requirements where you have to say emergency because people do confused them with urgent care. When you go there and you find out, oh, I'm being charged for the emergency room rate. So you have to put the emergency sign on there for that very reason. That's how similar they are to urgent care from a land use perspective. We talked about this. We spent months talking about this, researching other juror's stations to see how they treat this. This was not done in the middle of the night and it was not done in haste. And like I said, we don't have every conversation with Mr. Debbel, but I did have lots of conversations with the Shad. We shared lots of information. We looked at other jurisdictions. We tried to do this properly. We followed the rules. We followed staff's guidance. And we followed their historical application of the code. That's the beginning of the end of it. We went through this whole process, and then at the end, there was an ordinance that was adopted that just created a separate parking standard. To talk about trying to expand interpretation of the code beyond its plain language, the code plainly defines outpatient surgery centers for parking purposes. Staff plainly told you in the staff report in August that outpatient surgery centers will continue to be approved as medical offices in zoning districts where medical offices are allowed. This is no secret. They plainly said it to you. And that is, but to try to now take a parking standard, one bedroom apartments have a different parking standard than two bedroom apartments. There's still apartments. Even though they have different parking standards. To try to take that and convert a parking standard into a separate use regulation is clearly expanding the meaning of the code. It's clearly reading into the code. The plain language of your code is you do have an outpatient parking standard. We've applied that. That's what we submitted and we sort of deviation for it. The code does not have a definition of medical office clearly under Florida law that gets interpreted broadly and favor the property owner. That's the way staff has historically done it. It's not really complicated. We took Parking Count data. I you know I can't say what other facilities do, what they decide. I mean congratulations in that they're super busy and far more busy than HCA and have lots more employees and patients than more power to them. This isn't their facility. We gave you data that HCA has provided. Patient data, we have actual observations. John Donaldson is here today. It was on site of the facility's counting cars, literally counting cars. This is not, you know, the suggestion that somehow this has been in misleading is somewhat insulting. I can tell you that we have faithfully provided information and data to you, that the client has provided, that they have developed over years and years of their practice, the way they run their facilities, and so we're not trying to get approval for anybody else, but for this operator. If you all, like I said, we told the planning is only board that we would provide more data. And that's what we've done. If you all want to see more data again, I mean, you know, I think maybe you should have more data so that you can reevaluate this standard because I believe it's pretty clear. Again, you counted the urgent cares. The urgent cares are severely overpowered. Why you got lumped in with the outpatient surgery centers that by observation is have a clearly higher parking count, really doesn't make sense. They're different animals when they got combined. And that's why we're having to seek a technical deviation. It's not, I'm using this example of other people, but this is like we go to a store, a public and they say, and you buy a $20 dollar dollar wine, but it's, oh, it's by when you get one free, well, guess why? It was probably a $10 dollar dollar wine to begin with. And so the jack up apartment requirement, of course, is going to necessitate a reduction whenever it's excessively high. And again, you know, things like streetscapes and circulators, I don't think they do a whole lot of benefit for a heart attack victim, right? And so those sorts of, those sorts of outlays that are being done in their hands mobility, isn't something that, that, oh, we could have a medical officer less parking because we have streetscapes. Again, this is not something that's dependent upon those types of alternate like mobility, bicycle paths, and regrettably, but it is a crucial service to people and it is not intense. It doesn't create a lot of parking. It isn't something that needs to be mitigated heavily. If you all want, we could have monitoring to show you that the parking is adequate there. We can get a reduction if you want to do a reduction in the office. There are reductions that are applied all the time on office spaces. Even a 10, 15% reduction in the office, which is not that you get an off the top 10% reduction for office in CIMD, right? And so it's a pretty typical reduction. That will provide another 12 spaces for the emergency room. Now it's got 37 spaces instead of 25. So I'm sorry. You know, I'll make that point again about the 12 please. So we didn 25. So, I'm sorry, you know, I'll make that point again about the 12 please. Well, if so we didn't, so when we first submitted the pre-app, what was presented was that there would be a technical deviation sought on the office because we know it's over part. And then that would lessen the technical deviation that's needed for the freestanding emergency room. But because we were trying to, because one of the criteria was that you're asking for the minimum deviation necessary, the feedback with staff will, based on the data, you don't need the technical deviation for the office because the data supports the park and you're providing for the free standing emergency room. But we could have skin a different way. We could have said, okay, we'll do a reduction for the office, and that will free up more spaces. But a lot of this, you know, it's just moving chairs on the deck. And in the day, it's 82 spaces, right? It's 73 spaces on the weekends and at night that are completely available for the free-standing emergency room. And so if you were to say that, okay, 35 before the emergency room then, and 45 before the office instead of 57, it's still justified. It's a different way to look at it, but it's the same in result. It's 82 spaces for the two uses together. Which again is 29 more spaces than these same two uses will require across the street, or if it was a different owner. If just if it was a different owner, there's a different parking requirement. Well, because if the owner of this property would be part of the brick master plan, so now the parking requirement suddenly changes, based on the owner. So, like I said, we could debate all day. I'm sure other health health providers can bring other data. We provided data. If you want more data, we're not afraid of it. It's just how much of it do you really need? Everyone initially felt like we had enough data. Now we've gotten more data. I don't know what else to tell you all. We're presenting you what we have to believe to be accurate and true. And we hope that you all can see through the nuances of the arguments with people trying to say that other facilities are this or that, you know, I've been around and I talked to somebody and they told me this is what they thought. I mean lay opinion is not competent substantial evidence. Right? Especially when it's someone that we can't even, you know, people complain about before I can't cross examine that person. But in the day, the people that are here, HCA, are experienced in this, they're telling you what they need. They provided you the data at their other facilities. It supports what they're asking for. So I just hope that you all can make the right decision. And we really do appreciate your time. I know it's super late. And we respectfully request that you deny the appeal and affirm the planning and zoning board approval. Follow staff's recommendation. Follow the data that's been presented to you, follow the desires of the people that are telling you they need this type of service in the area, they want this type of service in the area, it's an important service. And with that, I'll call it a night. Thank you, Mr. Marshall. Thank you. Before you do. A pellant in there, and I didn't watch the entirety of the BNZ meeting. A pellant has seized in their appeal language that was offered at the planning and zoning hearing of 20 to 30 spaces. They say the applicant's own admission on the record note of that similar. Maybe that's not the right. Yeah, they do say no. They are actually there. I'm sorry. I thought I thought I saw twice that was a reference to others did at any point you talk about 20 to 30 spaces being needed for right because we were talking about the I was talking about the ITE rate right which is 1.88 and then what we're providing which is 2.11 so I was saying this was saying, this was just the 2,000, which is what, the Parking Recruiting is VMD, then 10,000 square foot building is 20 spaces, 15,000 square foot building is 30. It's just simple math. And most of these facilities, as you've heard from everyone here, are between 10 and 15,000 square feet. So that's all that was. It was just and you gave me your conclusion about the testimony from Dr. Goldstein and the number of staff in hospitals. I am having some discomfort with 11 beds and four staff. What I mean, you should talk to the HCA people because it is, because it is, there's the ones running this, not me. And so. Mr. Brown. Mr. Jones. Thank you. Like I mentioned earlier, we have 54 locations throughout the state. We have nine here in the East Florida Southern Florida area. I like to tell you is compared to going to a hospital, the average time in the East Florida, Southern Florida area. I like to tell you, it's compared to going to a hospital. The average time in a hospital for a patient that's discharged is over 170 minutes. In a free standing emergency room, the average time is about 100 minutes. And so if you're in a facility, I'm not sure how efficient, vocal, regional, the free standing emergency room is. If you're spending more, the patient's spending more time in the facility, that's gonna require more staff. Now the number he quoted was 20. Our number is, you know, 15 to 16. It's really very close as far as the overall staffing. I'm sorry, 15 to 16. Yes, good. I thought that would you say earlier, four staff? Yeah, but if you're looking at it, so it's a four hour, for every hour of, you know, it's four staff per hour. So if you look at over a 24 hour period, that equals 16 to 18 staff that are on our books from us, overall staffing standpoint. Now, if they're staffing, I'm not sure, I'm not sure what they're statin, maybe they have other services, maybe they have occupational health, maybe they have other, you know, primary care services, et cetera. I find it hard to find 20 total staff working a given shift for, you're talking about having, for every one visit having two staff, that just just that ratio doesn't really make sense. We staff these across the country. This staffing ratio really makes sense for the volume. E.R. staff per volume and per acuity and that's a typical ratio that you see from an overall volume standpoint. Five, at a given time. You can just say it. of the ancillary services that were mentioned like CAT scan X-ray. Those are also, you typically in imaging, you have a multi-modality tech that can do X-ray and CAT scan because the volume in these facilities is not like being in our main hospital. We have multiple modalities on call and working at a given time because you have stuff going on in the hospital, OB is busy, you have the ER, there's busy multiple patients, the volume in ER, free standing emergency rooms is very low, so you have a lot more cross-training from an imaging capability standpoint. What security do you typically have during business hours? We typically in our facilities would have one person around the clock. Okay. So it's four it's four to five. Right. I'm already counting Dr. Nurse, Tech Receptionist Security. Right. Five. Someone to clean. Six. Well those services are typically contracted. So if you look at but they're there. Wouldn't you have someone be able to clean up the facility at any one time? Yes, but also in free-standing emergency rooms, you tip if you have, because of the volume, you don't have a dedicated housekeeper, those staff that are also cross-trained. There's a lot of cross-training going on because you don't have enough volume to justify having a full-time housekeeper in our hospital we do because you're seeing 200 patients a day. So you have enough patient volume to justify having a full time housekeeper. But in a freestanding emergency room, we have, is either contractive service or you may have the nurse just working, maybe also be or the tech that could be clean the room as well. I mean, I will, for my overall facility standpoint, if you all want to visit any of our facilities, we have nine of them in the community. I think we're working on a facility in West Palm Beach that the folks here may be familiar with and have facilitated assistance and opening up. It's a typical staffing plan, our patient experience. If you look at our patient experience and our freestanding emergency rooms, they're all above the 65th percentile related to the patient's perception of care. And a lot of that is based on the services that they're getting. Hospitals are extremely busy. They have capacity, crunches, they have capacity strains with trauma, with burn, with other high-ocuty services. This project really serves a significant need. And I understand by our staffing ratios as far as the actual per patient volumes. Now they do have more beds. I've not been in their facility, I should drop by. They do have more beds in us and they're in a different location, etc. Right? And then again, what's your average number of individual patients who come into a facility per bed in 24 hours? So we've got a bed you can expect to see how many people there. Who will occupy that bed during the 24 hour period? So you're saying 30 patients a day on average. And the average time is 100 minutes per patient. Thank you. And I'll also comment related to transport. This is comments come up. Any emergency room a patient goes to. If you come into Northwest, if you go into West Boca, if you go into any emergency room and you need to be admitted to the hospital, it is the patient's preference on where they get admitted. It's not the hospital's preference. It's not the, you know, it's the, the patient says, my doctor, my doctor is at Boca Regional Hospital. It's our obligation to transport that patient to that facility. And that is, that's clear. That's the, it's patient preference. Now, if you're having an emergency condition, if I'm on Glades Road and I'm having a heart attack, it's per the standard of the EMS agency to transport that patient based on the standard set by the EMS agency. So they may say we can only take patients to a STEMI center. We can only take patients to a stroke center. But if you're stabilized and you decide I want to go to a certain facility. That's the patient's preference. All right. Thank you, Mr. Lv. I have just one question about that, though. Thank you. If they don't state which facility they want to go to, where do they go? If they don't state there, you're technically in the, on the campus of Northwest Medical Center, so they would, by default, come to Northwest. Which is how far away? It is 20 about 20 25 minutes away. Okay. And if the patient does have to be transferred, and we can just use X hospital, we don't say HCA. Do you call Boquer-Tone Fire Rescue Services or EMS, or do you have your own ambulances? We use a private ambulance service. Currently we use AMR for our transport. I give you an example. At Northwest, we're at 441 in Margate. West Boca has a free standing emergency room four miles to the north of us. And it's served a good, a good, it's served a good for the community. They see about 10,000 visits a year. They've grown, we've continued to grow, but we're growing in different ways. So we kind of compliment each other based on on some of those patients, if a patient goes in the West Boca Hospital, West Boca frees out the emergency room and they have a heart attack, or the patient wants to come to Northwest, they come to Northwest. And so it really, these facilities, whether it be urgent care, hospital, free standing emergency room, they all kind of augment each other because at the end of the day, if you look at all of our campuses, the need is definitely there. The population is aging. The population is getting, having more healthcare needs and so having access is really what this facility strives to accomplish. Further questions? Other questions? All right, thank you for the questions. Thank you, Mr. Jones. For the questions of Mr. Marshall. Alrighty, why don't we close the public hearing for now. Before we have some discussion, I actually want to do some math that I wanted to, I had a couple of questions for Mr. Kailer. Procedurally, can we take a short five minute recess? We're at 105. That objection? All right, thank you. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. you I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit of the same thing. Thank you. I'm going to be to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Thank you. you you you Thank you. you We are resuming the city council meeting at the time of 120 AM, which is the latest for a resumption in my recollection. Not the earliest meeting, though. Mr. Mayor, please. May I ask my colleagues to consider that we postpone this item till the next or subsequent meeting. We have received, first of all, my Nana said nothing good happens after 1 a.m. And it rushed her so. So we don't want to upset Nana. It's very, very late. We have received an incredible amount of new information to consider. We've heard all the evidence. Now that that is completed, I'm still digesting this. And I would like, I think we could all appreciate time. I think even staff, I think our city attorney would appreciate some time to digest these things. And we can come back with a clear head at the next or at the right meeting And resolve this matter or or have the path forward So I'm making motion to table this matter till the next meeting So emotion to continue to the date certain of our next meeting and have it agenda then? Yes, please. We can take a second, but I was asking the city attorney a similar question during the break. If we went ahead and did this, what would we have to do with the public hearing portion? The public hearing portion has been closed. You're in the city council. I'm going to say we haven't closed it yet. So I did I before the break, I don't remember. All right,'re in the city council. I haven't closed it yet, or did I before the break? I don't remember. All right, we close the public hearing. Good, all right, bye. That is good. I believe so you're in the council. It is closed. Yes. Council deliberations, it is permissible for you to continue the public hearing, to continue to do the deliberations at your next meeting, Or you can deliver right now and decide that. All right. Well, we can do it. Let me know. continued to deliver deliberations at your next meeting? Or you can deliver right now and decide now? All right. Well, we can do it, so we know that. What's your thought? I had inquired, so at least the thought across my morning, Ms. Brecker. I would be for deferment. We have so much information that came out of us. We still have another quasi-judicial ad report to do do There's I'm sorry. There's no way we're going to be able to get through all that unless we table those other items that we continue on this one That would be the trade off Okay All right, so Some possible ways to defer on Mr. Thompson. I see it differently. I feel like we all started this evening at you know the 20-yard line And we all is all the way at the goal line I feel like we've closed the public hearing we should we owe the folks in the audience an answer That's my view of it. It's not gonna be there's not much left to do on this item the ones after that fair enough But on this on this item. I think we could see it through and have an answer time. Okay. Is that a list? I'm fine continuing also. I would continue this, finish this, and defer the others. The other, push the other two off. Oh, so you want to, you want to complete this particular hearing now, I'm curious. I would complete this one. All righty. All right, kind of on the mix. Why don't we start the discussion, see where that goes, and then we can have some deferral if we need, because we're kind of like mine, of both mines. Anyone want to discuss substance or? I mean, so we're going to continue? No, I think we're, oh, you mean no, we're going to proceed. Sorry so we're going to continue. No, I think we're oh you mean no we're going to proceed. Sorry We're going to proceed All right, well, maybe I should just maybe kick it off. Okay. All right so I guess before us so a couple things that are happening today or right now here, is there is no discussion that we don't have a need for this in our community. There is a need for this in our community. Now where does this belong in our community is the bigger question. I don't know why this particular site, because this was approved from before, doesn't have a drop off Bay Bay site, which would be, you know, would resolve half of the issues that we're dealing with today. I had a lot of questions around staffing, which I have data, but we haven't been able to really digest it in my opinion for myself. The parking also presents an issue. The overlay of what will happen in the future with that area and the in and out. I sit up here, Mr. Marshall knows that transit champion making sure that our streets are safe, that people can get around, especially people that need medical care. But the bigger issue here is that in the August meeting that we had, we, the policy makers, which is the people on this day, or the architects of policy, we gave a direction to staff, which was that FSERs or not to be included in the LERP. That's what we decided on that ordinance. How staff interpreted or didn't interpret it or how they came about it, sometimes things are mistaken, sometimes are interpreted incorrectly, but we, I myself, we never wanted that to be included in there. So that presents a little bit of an issue because, and to Mr. Marshall's point, just because staff says something, it doesn't mean that we always do what staff recommends? Because we've been on other issues where we don't always take the staff's recommendation. So that's one of my other feedbacks around that. If we were, if you had listened to that meeting, we would know that this was not here. My question for staff maybe is more of, in that meeting that we had last August, this application was already going in process. Why wasn't like any of this discussion? Because you didn't have any data. So you didn't have data, we didn't have data. And that's where we excluded it from our final finding. But there was an application that had, I guess, some data. And I guess I have a little bit of a disconnect if information was not informed to us, we didn't have all the data, maybe the applicants didn't provide all the data. So I'm kind of, that's, I have a little bit of a disconnect in that area. Sure, so when we were looking at this use, when Mr. Marshall was floating this idea and what would this be considered would it be medical office, that was well prior to the discussion on the parking. But we weren't connecting the two things. We were looking at, okay, the direction from the council is to look at the required parking for medical office. So we sat about and said, okay, let's try to get different types of medical office that we have in the city. Let's go out and take data from those places and that's what we did and that's what we brought to you. When we came to the hearing and it's been months I could be getting this a little bit wrong, I don't think I was aware of freestanding emergency rooms being wrapped up in that conversation until we got here. Maybe I had a few days advanced notice. It's been months, but it was not a conversation that I was connecting or that we were connecting on the staff level. We say we don't have the data about free standing emergency rooms in particular. We didn't have the parking data. That's what I was talking about because we didn't have any in the city to go gather and we were focused on things that were in the city. But still I think we had a conversation here of medical office versus FSER. We as policymakers had that conversation on this day, it's when we specifically asked for that to be not included. Right, so that's what we did. We put free state emergency rooms within the definition of outpatient surgery center which left the parking requirement the same as it was before. Now like any other use, once it's in the code, you can ask for a technical deviation and you can justify it with data. That's no different for this applicant and property than for any other applicant and property in the city for anything. Well, I feel what I feel is that I don't have sufficient data to be able to make that determination. You swayed me. You've swayed me. I swayed you too. Yes. To that, I, we don't have to decide this at 1.30 in the morning now as much as it might be available for for some people to have a decision. I think it deferral to the next meeting it does make more sense. I agree. No, don't be. Three of us. Yeah, that's yeah. So yeah. I also don't want to force two colleagues who there are issues and even that question just raised some. So yeah, I'd'd be in more inclined to Continue to the next meeting our next regular meeting of April 8th So Mr I'll second the motion if it hadn't been seconded yet or I don't even remember so that's why Yeah, no, you know you're awake enough so Yes, all right, so that's a motion by mr. Wig just second by me. All those in favor of continuing this matter to be date certain of April 8th? Is it? Yes. Aye. Yes. Aye. Aye. Opposed? No. Okay. All right. Thank you all. We appreciate this. We'll keep it up. This long process and it's going to be here for, you know, if this we're going to proceed so Better to do this another time. With that, we can, I guess we could adjourn, if we adjourn our meeting, I think we should probably just continue the next, the second matter. 36 20 25 to the next meeting. I think you might have the clerk open the public hearing? Yeah. I continue the second matter. 36, 2025 to the next meeting. I think you might have the clerk open the public hearing? Yes. Or sorry, read the item into the record. Very well. I'm sorry. Okay, yes, very good. All right. Well, at that point, we'll open up the public hearing on, or excuse me, we'll have the clerk read Resolution 36, 2025. Resolution 36,. A resolution of the city of Boca Raton, considering for the approximately 1.12 acre property generally located at 2150 North Ocean Boulevard, a coastal construction control line, CCCL variants. From section 28, dash 1556, three, code of ordinances, which variants is required for the construction of a raised wooden deck in staircase. On the south side of the existing building where no structures permitted, seabird of the CCCL without a variance. Providing for a peeler, providing an effective date. Right. Thank you. May I just ask if you're in the audience, we should show your hands if you're here for this particular matter? No one all right Maybe maybe we'll maybe we'll just try to plow through All right, well in any event we'll have to open up the public hearing but that's after the city attorney confirms that the Quasa judicial procedures that were read earlier in this meeting still apply I can so so confirm. All right, does anyone have any quaza, excuse me, X part A communications tips close? Mr. Thompson's net, not I didn't know. I don't believe so, no. Ms. Nacklas. No, no, I expect. Ms. Drucker. Mr. Wrayger, and I have not as well. So we'll open up any, why don't we open up the public hearing because we'll give you an opportunity to speak at a minimum, sir. Anyone who wishes to speak at this matter, please stand and rise so the clerk can administer the oath. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that any testimony you make before this public hearing will be truthful and accurate? Thank you. Very good, thank you. Mr. Brown, will you introduce your staff person as making the presentation? Josh Botts, Senior Environmental Officer, is going to make the staff presentation. Josh bought senior environmental officer is going to make the press. Staff presentation. Good evening, Mayor Singer and esteemed council members. I guess it's more like good morning at this point. My name is Joshua bottom, the senior environmental officer with development services. I'm here to request a at a coastal construction control line variance a CCCL from the city's code of ordinances for the proposed work at the AGM condominium located at 2150 North Ocean Boulevard. Location. The approximately 1.12 acre property is located east of North Ocean Boulevard and north of the Boka inlet. The property is owned multi-family residential, R5A, with a future land use designation of residential medium. So the request. The applicant is requesting a CCCL variance approval to authorize the construction of a new raised 18 square foot wooden deck and accompanying staircase that will connect the existing deck on the eastern side of the building with a small open area on the south side of the building. This deck will allow residents easy access to the front of the building and to A1A. The owners of the property intend to eventually create a butterfly garden in this area for residents to enjoy so that will be an added benefit. The raised deck and staircase will be constructed on posts where to eventually create a butterfly garden in this area for residents to enjoy. So that will be an added benefit. The raised deck and staircase will be constructed on posts with no impact on the existing natural environment as the area proposed for construction is already developed. The applicant is not installing any lighting which will further minimize any potential impacts for nesting sea turtles. Pardon me. Area of work. So on the screen is the proposed area of work. It's way down at the bottom is that little yellow cross hatched area. It's a very small amount. It's a very small area. There's little to no existing native dune vegetation in this area. It's all been developed before when they built the building. This is a little bit of a closer view of the area of work, as you can see, it's a 9x9 deck, along with a small staircase that jogs a little bit, and that's pretty much shaded. And it connects to an existing deck that's up to the east. glass railing and I'll have a photo of that in a little bit. Before you move, can you go back? What is that, go back to slides please. What is this, like the marbling pattern, no no, on this next slide. On slide. This marbling pattern on the right side here. That would be though, well, there's a retaining wall, there's also a pool pump there. And then the marbling pattern up on the building is actually the deck. Okay, thank you. This is just an additional view of the plans. And these are some additional views of the area just to to give you a better idea. There is a larger taining wall to the south. It's basically enclosed on three sides with the side facing A1A, which this is looking eastward. The side facing A1A is all vegetation. So it's completely screened from view on A1A. It's screened from the south and it's screened from the east. Let's see here. And so our analysis, the proposed deck is being constructed to provide an additional point of access for residents to the front of the building. The deck will also allow residents access to that future butterfly garden. They're going to be using all natives when they do put that in. The area where the deck is constructed is already disturbed in the excavation for the pilings. Shall be minimally invasive to the environment. Staff supports the construction of the new improvements and finds that the proposed hard-scape improvements are not detrimental to the public welfare. So as far as recommendations go, the development services department recommends approval of the application, the environmental advisory board voted three to nothing to a recommended approval of the application, and the planning and zoning board voted five to zero to recommend approval of the application. Thank you for your attention. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you questions. Mr. Wigher. Yeah, just briefly, you said in your remarks that the deck was going to be 18 square feet, but on the plans that showed 9 by 9. That meant 81 square feet. So 18. No, no, no. I just want to make sure that the ordinance, that the resolution is correct. there's no typographical errors that need to be perhaps just a scribb and a there or something like that. Right. No, I believe it says 81 square feet on it. I think I wrote that wrong in my notes. For ease. Okay. Any other questions? All right. We'll open up the public hearings sir. Thank you for your patience Very rare that we go this early so Oh, where's Jeffrey Pesilis 3931 Northeast 27th Avenue lighthouse point To address maybe the question right now you just had about the size of the death with square footage The diagram they saw was not diagrammatic That was actually realistic to the site plan. So exactly how it's laid out is exactly what it looks like to in pertinence to the setbacks and the actual structure size. There is no disturbance to really anything going on around it. This is strictly for clients request. I have no additional information. Mr. Bot, thank you for the previous hearings and for this late hearing today. Thank you. Insert, do you represent the applicant? I'm the contractor. What's your company? Floor to construction. had you been advised that anyone else from the condominium or anyone in wet concerns would be here tonight? And did you see anyone else who was here tonight who you thought was going to testify but left? No, we've never had anyone ask any further questions or be against us from neighboring communities or this community. And you didn't see anyone here tonight who you thought might be testifying on this. No. All right, thank you. All right, thank you. Since you are the only speaker, you don't want to cross examine yourself, do you want anything? I don't know the facts, I have the thing that came out of my mouth. Well, we'll take that as a no sir, so all right, thank you. We'll close the public hearing. We can either do a motion to adopt or a motion to continue. What's your pleasure? Motion to adopt. Thank you. All right. Any further discussion? Straight forward enough. Ms. Sidness, please call the roll. Dr. C. Yes. Nanclus. Yes. Thompson. Yes. Wigter. Yes. Singer. Yes. Motion passes five votes to zero. Thank you. That concludes item 16 Item 17, Mr. Brown. Do you want to talk briefly about the summer? Thank you, sir? Mike is not on please We will meet June 9th and 10th. We will take off June 23rd and 24th. We will be off July 7th and 8th. We will meet on July 14th and 15th. We will be off August 11th and 12th. And we will meet on August 25th and 26th. There will be resolutions for the CRA and the City Council with the next set of meetings. Very well. All right. All right, any further report? No further report. Any further report by anyone? Seeing no one report, no further business. Thank you.