Thank you and we are reporting just a reminder and for those who are new to push the button when the light turns green that way people streaming can hear you Awesome is 630 calling the meeting to order Thank you at this time I'll call roll we have Cynthia Dan Present Karen Azure present Matthew here Zach here Christie? Dan. Present. Karen. Here. Azure. Present. Matthew. Here. Zach. Here. Christy. Here. Minoxi. Here. And Scott is not here this evening. Thank you. We have a quorum. Next on the agenda is public comment. Hello everyone, my name is Darnella Gamble. I am the owner of ReWax and Unwine here in John's Creek. We're located behind Egg Harbor on Metlock Bridge. And I just came to find out what's going on this coming year, what activities or events you've had planned and just to be a part of the community a little bit more. Thank you. Oh, ReWax and Unw is a candle making experience. Okay, thank you. Nice to meet you. All right, up next is reports from the city. I think that's you Olivia. Thank you, Chairman Zach. Chairman Zach. So, hi again. Very glad to be with you this evening. You have a number of handouts. So, please feel free if you do have questions after I talk through everything or you go home and you look over again and you have questions about something, please feel free to reach out to me. So the first thing I would like to do is I would like everyone to take their pen and on upcoming events where you see it's the third event down, JC Pause Sculpture Ribbon Cutting. Please change that date to the 18th, not the 11th. So it's the following Friday, a scheduling conflict was brought to our attention. So the updated flyer that will be online after the meeting will have the correct date. You will also be getting a calendar invite to the official event that will have more information, location, all that good stuff, and that will go to the email that you use for your contact phrase. If you don't receive it, I'll make sure to send out a reminder, or Zach will send out a reminder, but if you don't receive it, just shoot me an email and make sure I have, make sure myself and Jake have the correct contact for you. Okay, so I will jump into my few staff updates. So the first that I have for you is the call for artists for the newly named Boardwalk at Town Center. So that's the park right here behind City Hall that is under construction. So at the Council Retreat Council discussed arts and culture for the year and one of the things that they talked about wanting to do was a planned call for public art to be commissioned this year and Hopefully potentially installed with the grand opening of the park next summer and they provided the theme So it should speak to or be inspired by John's Creek History or Heritage in terms of funding That will be a $200,000 sculpture is the budget so it is the to my knowledge one of the largest Art commissions that the city has ever done or put forward so it's really exciting It's going to be a wonderful Peace and addition I think to the park back here and contribute to place making. So we'll be I'm preparing a call for artists. So it will be a two round process. First round will be soliciting artist qualifications. We then have a short list of artists who are invited to prepare more detailed proposal or rendering for what exactly they would envision and then we will award a final contract. So that process is about to kick off. So once that call for artists is out on the street, I will send you all an email and of course invite you to share it to your networks and we're going to be posting it on a couple common sites or forums where artists go to look for work like Georgia Council for the Arts Americans for Public Art I have a short list if there are any specific ones you know of please feel free to send them to me so I can make sure it's posted there. But that's going to be really exciting and we're going to kick that off. And we have Chairman Zack, who will be serving on the selection committee and we have a group of staff members in addition to community representatives from our local arts-minded, arts-driven organizations. So that's going to be really great and that's going to kick off very soon. Really excited and hopeful that we'll be able to get it all done and together for the grand opening of the park. That's the plan. We'll see if we can get everything together, but I am I'm feeling very hopeful and confident about that. Yes. Yeah, two questions. First of all, will the artist be only resident of John's Creek or? So it will be a national call. So we are modeling this process after the bridge, which was done at Colley Creek Park. So we are following that same model in terms of how we advertise, how we get proposals, the makeup of the selection committee. We're trying to model that process because it worked really well in terms of getting that. Okay. Second question. Besides Zach, who else in our committee will be in the selection like team or broad? So only Zach, as the chairman, and we weighed this back and forth, because at some point, once a committee gets big, it can be really difficult to manage. So to keep it simple, we picked one representative from each organization. The last time we did this same model with the bridge, Ace didn't actually exist. So we had Councilman Tunky, who was the city's representative on that board. So we were trying to follow that same model. But of course, Zach will be representing Ace and will think a great addition to that. Okay, thank you. So if we have comment, we can talk to Zach or in the meeting or so the way we are going about this process. So if you're familiar at all with government purchasing or procurement, there's a lot of rules that are around it to ensure it's fair and impartial to ensure that everyone who puts in gets an equal chance to be selected. So there are confidentiality rules around that. I'm not exactly sure what phase two of the selection process will look like, but I imagine we will in order to keep it efficient and keep it together and make it move as quickly as we can. It will probably be contained to that committee and then the final selection will be what's presented and approved. Thank you. So, if I may, what are the other groups that are represented beside days? Great question. I brought my short list. So, caveat, I have not yet reached out to the formal representatives of these groups to affirm their participation, though they're aware that this process is happening. So, I think they're just kind of waiting for the green light and who might be representing their organization. But we have the art center at Johns Creek, the CVB, ACE, the Johns Creek Historical Society, and Johns Creek beautification. Thank you. And is this basically replacing the recommendation before for the Native American sculpture? So the recommendation that ACE made for the TPD funds, that $50,000, the question that staff was posed with at the time was, should it be a one sculpture or multiple sculptures? Where should they be located and how should we go about procuring them? So in ACES recommendation, while there was specific direction for the Johns Creek Native American, the JCB sponsored sculpture, that direction of what we really want a singular sculpture, we really think it should be somewhere in the town center, somewhere that's meaningful. So Council heard that, took those funds, so that $50,000. And the split at the time was, I want to say the total, it's rough because it's TPD, so it depends on hotel, motel tax, exactly how much we get. But they said, okay, we want to spend $50,000 on a piece of art, and we want to spend the remainder on the Performing Arts Center documents and concepts. So, now that we have really kicked off that process, the remainder of the funds, so we've procured a consultant to work on those cost estimates for us. I'm not super involved in that process, so I don't have all the details. But the remainder of those funds, so that $200,000, we've spent a portion of that, and the remainder is now going. They said, you know what, we really think this art is important, and we want to get a sculpture art piece that matches the scale of this massive park. So they said we need to put more money towards this. So that's how we got to that $200,000 sum. So they took that recommendation that you made and put it towards this. We have had I've had discussions with John's Creek beautification because they are serving on the selection committee they will not submitting a proposal, because that would be a conflict of interest. So we did have that conversation. Very well. Great. Okay, well, I'll keep going with my couple other updates. So for the, I'll start with artist registry. So you have a wonderful flyer that our communications team designed that was requested at the last meeting. Just a quick update. I've had 15 applicants for the registry, which is, I was really pleasantly surprised by, and they continue to come in, so I'm working on reviewing them, and we'll have that first batch up by the end of March for those approved artists. I also have visited with the Chamber, John's Creek Chamber, and I have been along with economic development things because that's also part of my role. I have been speaking about this program and I've had several business owners come up to me be very interested. So it is my hope that we'll start gaining traction and getting some applications and working through those and getting more art in the city. And daftal day's progress update. So Zach, after our last meeting, he reached out to me and he was really interested in just an update kind of on how the event was doing and you got an email from him last week, kind of speaking to progress and what ACE might be able to help with. So I come with another update, which I'm really excited about. So to speak to sponsors, so we currently have three sponsors for a total of somewhere in the tune of $2,500. That deadline does close tomorrow, but we are in good shape. We are not hurting for sponsors. For activity vendors. So I believe at Zach's email, we still had a number of spots that were open and we didn't have a huge number of applications for activity vendors. So we have 10 spots based on all kinds of spacing for carnival games and the rides and the petting zoo, which is gonna be really great. So now we have more than enough applications. So we actually have a competitive selection. So that deadline does close tomorrow, and then our recreation team will be working to curate a selection of groups. And anyone, of course, who's not chosen, will certainly refer to other events, you know, as appropriate, as we have space for them. As far as volunteers, we are almost fully booked for volunteers, which is incredible. I don't want to say that never happens, but it doesn't happen a lot. So we're really happy and excited about that. There are I think one or two spots left. If any of you are interested or planning to attend and you want to take a volunteer shift We are always welcome welcoming you happy to have you But if not we would love for you to attend the event so that when we circle back You can share your experience as an event attendee and give your feedback And I was given a short list of the things that will be at daffodil Days. So I want to read it because it's just really great. There will be rides, inflatables, pettings, who games, circus performers, crafts, large bubbles, and so much more. So I think it's shaping up to be a really fun event. I highly encourage you to come, especially since we are trying out a new format. This event has evolved every year into kind of something different. And I think this year might be like, yes, we finally got it. But we'll see. And we're I'm certainly open to any feedback you have in passing that along to the team. Olivia, remind me where we landed on charging, parking, or entry, that kind of thing. Thank you. How parking is working. So I will admit that this has been somewhat of a moving target. As of right now, as of just not too long ago, there will be no charge for parking and no ticketing for games. It will be a completely free and open event. So no extra logistics, we are still working through the logistics of more accurate event attendance tracking and ways that we can do that. But with the move to make the event free and open and remove those what might be perceived as barriers, we're working on it. We have a number of techniques that we currently use to help estimate attendance. Nothing's ever perfect. But we have our parking companies that help us with counts. We have our retail vendors, our food vendors who help provide numbers estimates since they do events all the time. And we're also utilizing some pretty cool drone technology, taking stills as they fly over events to kind of get a picture of the crowd. And those shots are always great on social lesson on the website. So but we are still thinking about that and working towards it and we're going to figure something out. I just don't know exactly when that will be. Okay, moving right along, my. Do you have any concerns for daftal days right now or before we move. Currently there have been no flags raised to me. Especially since we have gotten a great number of activity vendors. We are really excited about. But yeah, if you hear anything specific, please. any concerns about parking. I know at Heisman Field that's in the past has been an issue for various events. Yes. So one way and granted, this is not my job, this is not my area of expertise. So take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know enough to be dangerous. We utilize professional parking companies. past there have been experiences where we tried to utilize volunteers or different groups. And the logistics of that is just really challenging when you have such a large area. I mean, it has been filled with huge. So having a professional logistics parking company to help make sure you have you know, adults directing traffic, making sure people know where to go, having all the appropriate safety gear. That is the direction we have headed to minimize some of those traffic delays. I mean, you know what, when you have thousands of cars coming to an event, there's going to be traffic. But we do everything we can to prepare in terms of lights. Like light timing, we have folks up in the TCC who are helping flush the signals, helping make sure everything goes through smoothly. And we have, of course, police officers on site who, if there's real issues, can help with that. Awesome. Okay, so my last update is actually a two-part update, which you have two flyers for. So the mayor's student art competition, Pam Sutton passed this along to me to share with you and to share with your networks. So the art competition is something the mayor has done for several years now and it's always very well. I won't say well attended, but we get a number of submissions from all different schools. So I highly encourage you to share this with your networks. We also share it directly with the schools, but those will be due Monday, April 14th, with the theme, what makes my school special, and there's a form on the City website to go ahead and submit that. Is this document on the QR code? It is not yet, but it will be. And I believe this, I'm not sure if this has been formally announced and posted like on the city website because normally we do a separate social media post, but I will get it on there. Any flyer that you have in front of you, either it will be on the QR code at the bottom or my friend Jake will add it as a handout to the meeting minutes for your for your review after. Okay and then lastly this was my like extra bonus. Pam also shared with me the state of the city invitation. So the date location are on here. Of course the mayor wants to invite all of the all residents but especially our board and committee members who are really engaged with the community. So it will be Thursday, April 3rd, 2025 at Johns Creek High School. Is there any spots left so that I can pass it to the, you know, some of the volunteers from working from the Luna New Year. As far as I know, yes, there are still spots left. So yes, you know, some of the volunteer from working from the Luna New Year. As far as I know, yes, there are still spots left. So yes, you can RSVP at John's Creek. Yeah. Yeah. John's Creek. G A dot. Yeah. Oh, they printed weird for you guys. Sorry. This is what mine looks like. It's much easier to read. I apologize. OK. So or that, I will get mine looks like. It's much easier to read. I apologize. Okay, so ignore that. I will get you a better. Yeah. So we, honestly, I was having printer issues today. So this doesn't shock me. This is what it's supposed to look like. It's very nice and readable. I will make sure you get the readable copy. I was, I was like, what are you holding? What do you have? We will make sure you get that up. Yeah, it's okay. I'll just spell it out. Yeah. Thank you. Yes, no. So you can RSVP to the email, RSVP at johnscreakga.gov. And that helps us make sure we have enough seats and enough orders and refreshments and things like that. Hey, and I think that concludes my city update. Olivia. Yes. Any idea I was looking at battle with the bands this weekend? Chances are the weather is not going to cooperate. Is there a backup for that? Or so, this I don't remember where I was today that I heard the answer to this question. They are monitoring the weather closely and will be posting updates. So not only are recreation staff, but of course our public safety staff are keeping an eye on all of that. And they'll be posting updates to the city website, city social media as they have them. Sometimes we're able to delay events, sometimes we aren't, sometimes they might be moved to the next weekend. If, for example, the participating bands would be able to commit to next weekend as well. So we're monitoring it closely, but we try not to make those calls until we're absolutely sure that it understood, can can't be made to work. Yep, yeah, understood. We have a quick question. First off, thank you for everything that you're doing. Like again, this flyer's awesome. Going back to sponsorships, I know we had a question last week or last meeting. Was the sponsorships tax deductible? So when we go out to the communities, ask for sponsorship. If that's something that will entice people to sponsor. Yes, no, thank you for the question. So after looking a little bit further into it and with talking with our attorney. So the way that governments are set up, we cannot accept any money in any way that could be considered tax deductible. It has to be done through a 501c3 nonprofit. So that is a, it's an item that Zach specifically brought to my attention also. So if that, that is something we're thinking about bringing as an agenda item for your consideration to make that recommendation. Because right now our structure won. The city doesn't give tax advice. That's the caveat the lawyer always tells me. City doesn't give tax advice. But the way we are structured, we can't do that right now. If in the future we did have say a Friends of John's Creek Recreation, we could accept the sponsorships through there, but currently we don't have that structure right now. Next item. All right, onto new business, approval of meeting minutes from February 13th. Everyone have a chance to read those. And if there's any motions on the table. Motion to accept. Second. Approved. All right. Onto options for standardized signage. Again put me in code. The item for you tonight options for standardized art signage. Just a little bit of background. So the city historically has not had specific standards or design guidelines for art signage, mostly because we haven't had any sort of real focused, consolidated public art program. We would get art pieces donated or commissioned on the offhand commissioned in partnership, like with the bridge at Collie Creek Park. So we as a city generally are guidelines. We do have very defined and specific aesthetics for our signs or our sign ordinance is very specific and very clear about what the John's Creek aesthetic is. So with the installation, upcoming installation on the 18th of JC Paws, John's Creek beautification posed the question and was like, hey, we want to order, you know, our sign for this. What are the standards? Like what goes on it? Do we order it? Do you order it? Like how does that all work? And it was it was a great question because it brought kind of to the surface. Like, oh, yeah, we don't we don't really have any good solid standards to point to and say, yes, here is what an art sign looks like. So in trying to keep in mind that aesthetic and keep continuity because most of our art, not all, but most of it is in our parks. So we took a look at the parks way finding signage and standards plan. So that was a consulting effort we had done to develop clear guidelines for colors, fonts, types of signs, the sizes, where they go and what we use them for. And we took those standards and I worked with a local company who is also manufacturing the signs for our parks under this new branding plan. New branding plan and he provided me some quotes for two options. So I know that there was specific interest in cast bronze. So one way that we also looked at this, not just from a, hey, what at what does art signage look like, but what do other similar non-traditional signs look like in our parks? So when someone buys a memorial bench, what does that plaque look like? If you know, if you've heard anything about cast bronze, especially in the last year or so, the prices have continued to go up. It's very expensive to manufacture even just a small plate to go on a bench or to go near the roots of a memorial tree or anything like that. It can get very expensive. So folks who were already spending money to buy a bench and donate it, we were just looking for ways to help them save money because it was, you know, $600, $600 for just, you know, a small inscription. So our sign-in manufacturer brought to my attention and brought to my attention because we've been using it for a minute now and it's being implemented on our signs as well. Something called aluminum composite material. I was going to have a sample to show you. I didn't get it in time. But it's a lightweight composite material with aluminum sheets on two sides and it provides a number of options for colors, backgrounds, prints, sizing, all that good stuff. So I have two options before each night for materials and then if you decide to go with the aluminum composite material, I have color options, color ways based on the branding and wayfinding signage standards. So, all that being said, it is the staff recommendation to go with the aluminum composite material. I had a couple of questions fielded to me before the meeting regarding warranties and durability. And as far as warranties, I think I sent this out in an email to everyone. But the warranties for the aluminum composite material are one year. And the warranty for the cast bronze is one year for the polish coat and paint. And then it's a lifetime warranty for the cast bronze is one year for the polish coat and paint and then it's a lifetime warranty on the piece. The cost differential which you may have noted is pretty significant because cast bronze is so expensive and unfortunately I received a note from our manufacturer who noted to me that almost everything, especially cast bronze, is going to be going up 10% because of the tariffs, because they import a lot of that raw material. So the prices that are here in your memo will be slightly higher just for your awareness. I don't have that second final quote yet, but I will soon. So it will be more expensive. This is a big conversation. There's a lot to digest here. So I also want to make sure I say to the group, you don't have to make a decision tonight. You are not bound by any sort of super strict time constraint if you need more information. I'm happy to go research more, look into things more, provide more options. Quick question. The material that ACM is, how sturdy is that going to be like against vandalism? I mean, you know, kids are going to come around and kick it and do all kinds of stuff. That's a great question. I'll say this, nothing is indestructible. If someone wants to vandalize something, they will find a way, even cast bronze. So it's generally very durable, but that being said, knowing that vandalism is an issue, even though I wish it wasn't, like this, even though I wish it wasn't, the ACM is much easier to remove and replace, as opposed to a cast bronze, where if someone comes with, I don't know, hammer and they're really intent on vandalizing something and they pick off a few letters, it's going to cost a whole lot to replace that and it takes much longer. It can take up to four weeks to actually get a new piece cast and ship to us, whereas the ACM can be replaced within days. as far as the ink and and, or, you know, the paint, if we did go the ACM option and picked a color, what, I mean, are they going to use a, in a NAMILized type of paint, so it doesn't peel and deprecate real quick, that is a great question that I, I don't know the chemical processes that they use. that's it here. No, no, no, no, no, no, no the right word but the whatever material that they're using is imprinted onto the aluminum. So that was not an issue. The one issue that they noted in the warranties related to the ACM was if it fades in a year, they'll replace it for free. Yeah, that's nice. Thank you. I've been taking about this one quite a bit and I wouldn't be surprised if our committee is kind of split on this decision because it looks like the price difference is a $600 difference and I feel that bronze might be a way to go to elevate our city. I don't think the cheapest option is always the best option, but I do agree that we want to make this accessible and these are really expensive, but my theory is that if this is optional for art, then we should guide people towards bronze. But if it's a required sign for art, then maybe Illumina makes more sense. We bowed it on this last meeting because I wasn't here. No, this is a new item. Oh, this is a new item. So has the city used this ACM currently? Like, what is the aesthetic of it? Because like that, I mean, the sculptures and the art that we've put out is very expensive. You know, I mean, it's very beautiful. Last forever artwork. And to that point, to have something cheap next to it is not the best look. I certainly understand I don't think it looks cheap at all. So, so for example, the most recent way we've used it is we had a memorial bench that was installed and they selected the ACM to be attached to their bench. And it's currently installed in a park. I have a photo in my email that I can put together and share for next meeting and have some more photo examples. But you would not, cast bronze is a very traditional look and it has a very distinct aesthetic and you can look at that and go, oh, like that's solid metal. This provides, it is a similar solid. In my opinion, it doesn't look cheap. It's not, and it's not a cheap material, and it is highly durable, but I'd be happy to put together photo examples. And hopefully, I will certainly have samples of the ACM if you choose to discuss this at the next meeting. Like, I'll have those in hand. I think that's a good idea, because we haven't seen the sample yet. And if we don't have an urgency to make a decision today, why don't we wait until next meeting once we have something that could be visualized? That's that's more yeah Yeah And I have a quick question to with the ACM would that be subject to go up with tariffs as well Is that something that we need to order sooner and later? So we we would order them on demand The the cost of aluminum I think is probably going to go up like everything else. But so if you take a 10% increase on each of these prices, it's a $67 increase for the cast bronze versus a $6 increase for the ACM. So it's not, I can't predict the future, But I don't believe it's going to go up at such a high volume that it becomes unaffordable. Yeah, or it becomes a real concern. I have a quick question. Did we research on the weather related to durability of aluminum? Because it's a metal which is more likely to discolored depending on the weather and it reacts with many stuff as compared to the bronze. So this, so the ACM is what was recommended by our sign vendor who manufacture signs for indoors outdoors. It's a highly durable material. We have some example. I have a few photo examples of where they used it. It's a bronze as a metal is probably could last up to 50 years and look perfect and pristine. I don't I don't have the data in this moment to know if ACM is the same, but I can certainly look further into it and see if they have any more specific data. Make a concern about the discoloration over the time. So if you know, then like you see the aesthetic viewpoint, so that's all. Are you able to find out the durability in terms of how long the ACM will last? And I understand that you're saying that the paint is kind of pressed in, so it's not going fade. But you know, over time, just the longevity of it. I can certainly ask and see what data my manufacturer has. We are using it in the parks. I'll see you right now. Correct. Yes, I'm sorry. This is not a brand new material to us. We have used it on some of the memorial signs and benches. I will also say speaking to your question about aluminum, all of our new park way finding signs are a quarter inch of aluminum with material. Are you using those around the Veterans Memorial in Newtown Park? The ACM. So not that I know of because typically those are donated by other groups but let me look into it. Like I know that there's cast bronze there. I know that there's maybe a version of cast bronze there. Like we just recently installed some like big huge ones for like golden silver stars. So let me look into it because I'm not 100% sure. I'm just trying to visualize. I know what I've seen at the new time at the parks. mean, they look beautiful and so I was just wondering. Yeah. No, I will look into it. Do we have a path for if they are vandalized who is paying for it? Does the person who bought it have to just buy a new one? That's a good that's a good. It in the past, I don't know that we have had a specific example of one that was donated that we then had to replace. So there have been ones that have been vandalized or I mean, damaged by storms, right? So none of these scenarios that we're talking about are covered into warranty. I just wanna add that caveat. The lifetime warranty of the bronze is if nothing happens to it, like if it naturally degrades over time, but if it gets a tree falls down and knocks it over and damages it. I would, we don't have a hard and fast rule, but I will say. So say we have, say we choose ACM for the JC paws, right? We buy the stand for it. We put it in. It's great. And one of the tree branches falls on it and damages that that top. We are really easily able to save the poll, assuming it's not damaged, remove that top and get a new one and replace it on. Whereas cast bronze, I am not as familiar with that process and how we would go about replacing it. But I'm happy to look into and see if I can get some more data. And I'll have the samples. I don't know if I'll be able to get a cast bronze sample, but I will certainly have some picture references for discussion at the next meeting. Yes, yes. Yeah, I think that we need to see those samples to be confident in a vote. But my theory is that like the JC Paws statue is going to last 50 years. So we want something that will last long like that. And I feel like the ACM is going to be replaced like every 10 years or something. And then we're already eclipsing the cost of bronze., assuming bronze isn't skyrocket, but that's my thought. Yeah, depending on what kind of equipment we're putting on there in the park, right? If it's a bench, then, you know, of course, the ACM, you know, I mean, the price kind of matches whatever, the price of the, you know, the facility that we're putting, so if it's an expensive sculpture, then the bronze one makes more sense. I don't know whether I'm, you know, saying that clearly. Like, yeah. I will just for your knowledge, because I didn't know this until recently. One of those benches costs upwards of three to four thousand dollars to buy one and put it in a park. not just I hear you that the value of the art, you want that weight to be reflected in the signage. One other potential thing that we can consider or talk through. Eventually we will hopefully get to a place where we have a rotating art program. So we will lease sculptures for a year or two years at a time, have them here somewhere in a sculpture garden, and maybe for those, we would choose ACM because those aren't permanent. But for something more permanent, maybe we do go, if you guys want to go bronze, we could also potentially look at making them smaller. So the current designs you have are 8 by 10, which is not a small sign. I believe it's about this size. Yes. So if bronze is definitely the way we want to go, we can certainly get smaller sizes quoted. But the expense is still going to be a significant difference. Okay. Is this an either or, I mean, for some, you know, for some projects, you use the ACM, where others the bronze, are you just trying to stick with one or the other for consistency? That's actually what I try to, you know, say, yeah, I think it depends on you. No, and it's an interesting question. We can do whatever the will, you know, of the body, as whatever. whatever we can work with that recommendation. It does in some ways defeat the purpose of having something built on our signage standards if you've got mismatched. Oh, okay. You know, so and not that that's a bad thing like so for example, I feel like for the Town Center Boardwalk sculpture that's going to. $200,000 sculpture. Again, I can't predict the future, but I would, I'm going to strongly advocate for a nice bronze sign for that. I also think it's important to think about what is the purpose of the sign. What are you trying to communicate? So typically cast bronze. Those are utilized in memorials. They're utilized to commemorate big events. If you've ever been to a city that's a little bit more historically rooted, you'll see historic markers. Those are made out of cast bronze. So those are, they are in honor of, they are commemorating. Not that art science can't do that. But, you know, someone who's walking through a park, they may, it's in a way it can be more informational. What is this art? How did it get here? What's, what is it about? I would also say that if we're going to go the bronze route, I would definitely, I'm definitely going to remove the QR code just for long javities sake. As technology evolves, QR codes didn't exist 20 years ago, who's to say that there exists 20 years from now? So we talked through some ways that we could still incorporate this because this was definitely something that the council liked when they were visiting other cities with public art programs. So I think there's a way we could incorporate something like this if bronze is definitely the choice, but I did want to note that. Yeah, I agree if the sculpture is permanent and a very expensive like $50,000 whatever, then the brown sign makes more sense. But like for a bench that's even it's like $3,000 to $4,000, I think ACM should work in that situation. Well, we do leave that choice up to the person who is buying the bench. We generally see people choose the ACM, like that's what we're moving to. But with a memorial, it's a little bit more, you know, personal to whoever's donating that piece. I believe that for like trees, since those are typically installed very close to the root, we typically do bronze for longevity's sake since you're closer to the ground. I would not recommend doing ACM on any sort of flat ground surface or even really close to the ground. Though our intent is to try and maintain a standard of keeping these signs on poles. Typically there are 36 inches ish at an angle or if it's appropriate having them on a wall, like on a flat surface, if there's a base, sorry, if there's a base or a wall nearby that makes sense for that signage. Okay, are there any other questions or concerns that anyone would like me to try and go back and research and come back with some options. Anything that hasn't been shared? I think we're probably looking to table it for samples. Can I get just a quick vote on or not vote? This is going to be the general design. Pretty much of anything we do. So I just want to generally, can I get a thumbs up? This looks good. Looks good. Thank you, Dan. Thank you. Great. Okay, perfect. Great. So I will go back and do some more research for you all. See you back in this. Both in here. And we can go from there. So the prawns would be the same format though. Correct. Minus the QR code. I understand. It would be if not this, it would be very similar. If we end up deciding to go smaller, you know, we may shorten the amount of text that can fit. Also, there was a lot of talk around. I'm just trying to net it out in my mind. So there are going to be instances where we're using bronze anyway. So I think one way we may also have to look at this in terms of dimensions is donated works of art versus city commissioned works of art because some of those are going to be very special commissions like the ones back here that that may not follow this, because it may be double the size and it may have a much longer commemorative statement on it. So if it's helpful to think about it in terms of the donated works to conceptualize that, though I will say the smaller commissions that the city does. So for example, the reflections that was installed at Newtown Park, whatever we decide, that will be installed here with this sculpture. And additionally, I believe they'll be installed with the other Julia Hill Chelsea Darling sculptures, the series, if there isn't already signage. But this will not intended to be completely retroactive, so we're not going to go back to every art piece that we have and install one of these signs. It will be from here on forward. Okay, great. Well, if you have any other questions, please let me know. I'm good. OK, great. Please let me know. And I will return to the next meeting with hopefully some more information. Cool. Yeah, just before we all wrap, I wanted to say that I'm trying to collect any agenda items from anyone that just, anything you want to talk about in these meetings, just so that we can get them on the agenda and they can get posted within the legal requirements. And it also gives staff time to come up with answers to our questions, really specific answers instead of all look it up and get back to you. So I'm going to try to be that liaison of trying to round up those agenda items and then pass them on to Olivia. So please just shoot me anything. It could be long term ideas that you might have anything that could make a better or a better would be awesome. And I will motion to adjourn. Second. All right.