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I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the next slide. I'm going to go to the when you're working on a public-private partnership. Thanks for the introduction. You know, either patients or experience, but you know, I think both of those can come in, you know, sort of invaluable. I'm glad you guys have been going through. I think the process that you've gone through, I did have a chance to take a look at the master plan for some of the properties that you own. And I'm thrilled to know that you're going through this comprehensive and overlay process. I think those will be critical. And I know tonight, sort of a bifurcated, just really conversation. I told Suzanne and I'm adjusting. And I'm happy to volunteer my time. I have no objective. I have no agenda tonight. There's, you know, for us success is that, I guess, you guys are more informed and, and, you know, maybe have some traction and some directions that you feel like, maybe holes or voids that we can help you fill in and that's really it. So I know that you've got a very nimble organization and you've got I think quite a bit of assets in terms of real estate, which is amazing. I think most places that we would work on would yearn to have this much single ownership. I think the key is for us is how to have vision. But more importantly, I think from an economic development standpoint, from an organization, for us, what's the most important is what's your core values? What is the vision of the organization? What does success look like to you? And sometimes making no decision is a good decision. I think if it's the fear of the unknown and there's opportunity that you're missing out on that help catalyze a project or program or direction that gets you closer to the center of the bulls eye, that's great. But you know, sometimes let the market mature and you know, not making the wrong decisions is certainly good. I did have a chance. I know Emily well with Kimmy Horn and the team that did a master plan on the town centered properties properties. And I think there's a lot of details and work and interviews. And I'm sure that was a fun project and looks like you guys came out with at least a direction. But I would say for me, we start with what's important for the community. What does success look like? What do you miss in? What do you feel like you shouldn't have to drive to Rockwell IV? What do you drive to Rockwell IV that you wish you had? You didn't have to or Dallas or the other places that you visit. From an economic developments standpoint, we know that, you know, what's generally important is, you know, places for employment, you know, the ability to grow the tax base, you know, increased sales tax, you know, those opportunities to, you know, perhaps improve talent. And the fact that you guys have this, you know, sort of a jewel box project, I think, is would be one component, maybe one leg of the table or one leg of the stool, but probably not you know the only. I think you guys are in a unique position to to leverage maybe some of the properties to accomplish some of your goals, but maybe not all your goals. And so I think for me, I just wanted to hear from from the board, you know, what's what's important to you from an organizational standpoint what keeps keeps you up at night, you know, why did you want to volunteer and what do you hope to accomplish, I guess, during your tenure. That and again, some of that could be directly affiliated with the activation of town center and it may be radically different. But when I looked at this, I'm thinking, I'm glad that there's not the wrong decisions that were made or the wrong developer doesn't own this. I think the fact that you guys do have control is a value ad for the city and the town. I think that's a really unique position. But for me, what does success look like to you? I guess that'd be kind of the beginning of the conversation, you know, if you could you could you know Denify one thing and everybody went around the horn and identified one thing What what would that one thing be that if you could you know during your tenure that you got accomplished or that you move the needle or you Improved your advance and I'm curious to see what maybe what that feedback would be You're starting to get your... You're going to take some... You asked... I'm curious to see maybe what that feedback would be. Start here. You're going to take some. Just you asked. I think the point question to me, one of the big questions that keeps me up. He you see wise and you kind of touched a little bit about it. But. One of the things that we have done. I think well, like you said, is we have, we have land. But one of the, I think, offsetting part of that is we don't want to buy. So that being said, that if you have puts a lot of stress or pressure on either one of us having a lot of money, which we don't. Or two, having some partnership to be able to turn around and now develop 21.29, that we want because, and I think there's some history of this that I'm not going to go into right now, but I think there's mystery in the fact that a lot of little smaller shops and things like that don't have the capital to be able to go into something like that and build the ground up. which brings me to a question that I did on it, what keeps me awake is a public private partnership that I don't know that we can afford to do. And when I say afford, I don't mean necessarily dollars, but being able to keep the control. Yeah, that was what I was thinking is it's, you know, doing a public private partnership is not the problem, but the two problems, I guess, one would be is how do you deliver, and I'll call it, I'm just gonna call it the vernacular village commercial, I think, you know, but how do you deliver boutique or village commercial or things that are unique or destination, one, and bridge the gap, because you guys don't want to take the risk, right, of funding that and hope, you know, if it doesn't work out, then you know, you're at risk. And the other hand is, is that, all right, well, you got to go partner with somebody to help deliver that. You're syndicating risk, but the fear is, is that you now don't have control of the property, or lose control of things that are important to you, that ultimately you might get what you want to deliver, but maybe not the way you wanted to deliver, and that may be worse than not, you know. All right right yeah. Good college status. Well I think like I believe most of us here perhaps are you know most recent counseled you know it's control growth and development you know we want the. So some unique and special amenities to our community. We would like them to have a certain look and feel. And, you know, it's difficult. And here we find ourselves just. We're fortunate in that we own our property property but then what and how do we get to that special place that that satisfy us what we believe our needs are our community and yet creating the the jobs and the tax growth and all those things. I mean I have a plenty of personal vision of what I would like to see come out of our town. And I don't know if we're going to get into the weeds on that right now, but I'm anxious to see, because the private public partnership aspect, I think, is I not just curious as to how we go down that path. So I'm anxious to hear someone with your expertise and how we get there. Yeah, I'll be, uh, he's got to sit on it real well. So I'll be brief. It is, we got the land in our control. We've got the acreage of the reserve, which is 20 acres. We have 22 under contract under town center, overlay district, all that. And so how do I activate village commercial? Because I think that captures what we've used in all of our material, naturally exclusive, special unique, exclusive upscale, natural beauty, distinctive, all great adjectives. But then how do you activate that? How do you find the developer that produces a product like that and set the parameters for a successful partnership? So that would be my That's pretty much it. And mine is pretty much a thank you for everybody else's attention. Everybody wants to look at this big up and want high quality unique businesses. Not aesthetically beautiful. Down center, aesthetically beautiful buildings. And we're in a position we were a veteran community. Right. And now we're time to be a table. Right. With its own identity. So we're kind of sort of scratch that I'm having hold down on that we can leave that and build off of. Or so we're kind of starting to scratch to kind of create a unique identity. When you drive into this table, you know, you're not a rock ball anymore. You're not a forny anymore. You need to do it. Yes. Since you make a great point that I want to jump on to is the fact that we're a better community, but we are surrounded by forny and rock ball and now I'm a Plins of Chisholm, which has a lot of lots underway. So we are going, you know, we've got the dirt and like this, but how do we, when we get, we're, we want to go have a fine dining and margarita. We're not in a lot, and I'll wait with a buzzer for an animal. We have a good type of thing to get in our own restaurants. So margarita is no way. I got it. We got it. Yeah. I don't have to. I don't have much to add except that we're at a point we get to start here. And so you want to take the right first step because you take the wrong first step. There's no way to unwrap that to put the geney back to the bottle. So we got to take the right first step here. This is our newbie. miles from here just doing this. And that's our future. No, that's fine. You can blame it on the traffic, which actually is a good thing in this conversation. So yeah, it's all good. So we were just making really 30 second intro. I may may recap kind of a little bit about us before we get rolling. We were just talking about from an economic development standpoint as a board, what does success look like? When you leave this position, when your 10 years over and you said, hey, I got one thing accomplished. Had a lot of discussion around town center, but it doesn't necessarily need to be specific property related is, you know, why are you serving and what does success look like? Yeah, personally, it's stewarding the land that we can hopefully acquire in the right direction, which really all does come down to the town center. I think that's been a hub, and because we're such a small footprint as an entire city limits, to anchor something in one specific spot with cohesiveness, a good design plan, is essential because we don't really have the square miles to separate these locations two two or three different spots and meet the really cover what we're supposed to do is bring tax revenue and you know dollars to the city. So controlling this land and making it to where we're generating revenue and centralizedability, uniqueness, and yeah, you're kind of keeping it in one specific area instead of full restaurants here and two over here and more over there, I think you've got a unique ability because of our flow of print, which someone say, my hinder your ability to grow, but I think it's neat to be able to centralize all that and really create a heartbeat for the community versus spreading it out through your four different shopping centers or whatever else it might be. I'll give you maybe just for context. We just started a high level, but just just as a little bit for context and background. I started the real estate business 30 years ago and ended up working for a developer that primarily. But just just as a little bit for context and background, I started the real estate business 30 years ago and ended up working for a developer that primarily did target anchor shopping centers. So in terms of critical mass and scale, those are big projects, one anchor and once you get the anchor set, you know, sort of everything else follows, which is exactly the opposite of what you want is, you know, we already sort of What I would consider, I call it, we'd call it the vernacular would be village commercial. A lot of the things that you would describe would be, and there could be some anchors, but I would see those mainly restaurant or entertainment, destination oriented uses, not necessarily the big boxes in junior anchors. And the good news is those, you know, destination oriented uses not necessarily the big boxes in junior anchors. And the good news is, you know, the junior anchors are really hard to pencil today, even on free land. So, and most of the users that I would, you know, spout out, you know, would be people in uses that you wouldn't want anyway. So, and those are generally loss leaders for the developer. They're trying to get to the village commercial, which is really an essence general to the money maker. The problem is you got to get away to create the critical mass. And that's really the purpose of the anchor is to create that initial draw. You need more uses to create the draw if you're doing a village commercial concept, rather than than having the big box. Tom thumb. Yeah. The top thumb is that it might not be the big box anchor. Initially, you match that for scale for our cities. That's something that's. Tom thumbs big in my mind, right? I mean, I think it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, in it, it's a little bit different, you know, grocery anchored projects have a whole separate sort of component. They do have that neighborhood gravity and they are regionally, in this essence in this context regionally serving. Tom Thumbs a little different than a lot of the other grocery anchors out there, where they try to find locations where they can't be cannibalized and they can't be poached. It's a very unique sort of real estate. Grocer anchors out there, where they try to find locations where they can't be cannibalized and they can't be poached. It's a very unique sort of real estate. So, you know, there's got to be a Grocer void, you know, and you know, you've got to be able to feed it on rooftops, but they generally want to go in areas where, you know, the rest of the the Kroger and, you know, HEB and the rest of the players won't go in or can't go in for whatever reason. So they're, they have some of the same goals that you do in a way, which I think makes it unique. And I think that scale is probably appropriate. And then they do obviously, they mean they essentially, they're the, the, the factor anchor of the town center at least today, until you can overcome it. But I think it's, I mean, it's, if they weren't here, I think that the center of the gravity would be different. And to recreate, maybe that center of gravity would be hard to do without them. So I mean, I think they're actually in this instance of asset, but a positive. I left that role and then until 2010, I worked for the Billingsley Company, Tremble-Crosse Daughter, and we were in kind of a unique position. We thought a lot like, I would say, municipalities think, and that kind of gave us a new context. Our role there was really about wealth preservation and risk mitigation, but we had such a machine that we had to keep it fed and we had 4000 acres of undeveloped land very similar to you. And so our strategy was there is trying to figure out what is the right thing to do today that will reinforce the brand. We were all about sustainability and walkability and neighborhood clusters as well. We were trying to serve, and some degree retail was the lagging factor. A lot of what we were doing is trying to figure out ways to monetize employment centers that we built or larger business parks. So the retail wasn't necessarily a focus. But we very much well made decisions that were 20 and 30 year decisions. The problem with development and developers in general, that they're almost all internal rate of return driven. And so the challenge that you run into is that they're almost the opposite of what you're after. Fast and cheap is way that the market sort of rewards developers and you're not looking for fast and cheap, you're looking for something that's sustainable and quality driven. And so you've got to figure out a way through that public private partnership at some point how to overcome that. Right? And so you've already done that. You set up a good vision. I think the framework is there. And I don't know how many iterations you went through on the visioning exercise. How many were in part of that planning process? I know one, just one in the room. OK. So I think there I think there's there's there's really good bones here. You know, and if you were, if you were going to take this plan and work, you know, do a developer selection, and you had somebody at the helm that you trusted, and you had the right public private partnership structure dialed in, and they went to market tomorrow. You know, this plan is going to change. You're going to be on site plan number 101 before you know it. I mean, every time you use it at a user or every time the block structure needs to change for something. So, um, I think this is a good good guy. I think there's really good bones and then definitely there's some some good thought processes. But, you know, you're probably married to the vision and the outcome, maybe not necessarily the plan itself. I mean, the plan is really just, it should be, it's an illustration of essentially development principles that you want to do a chief, and that's no more than that. So, you know, the roads may shift, and the buildings may get bigger or smaller, and there may be better integration or utilization of open space, but essentially, I think the bones of the plan are fairly good. The key is just trying to bridge the gap between the developers trying to build on our RR and you're trying to execute, as we did, more on a net present value standpoint. If we're gonna spend money, we to get a return on that money, but it's not necessarily you're not driven by fast and cheap. You're looking for kind of, you want to just make sure that there's a positive a creative return, which is a little bit different. Not impossible to set up, but that's the first thing I think you overcome is your goals and objectives. Maybe the outcome is the same, but your sens your business plan is probably set up differently and try to figure out a way to blend those two business plans between the private and public sectors is something that would need to be resolved. And then the comprehensive plan I guess you know where you are in that process is that that's done, but the overlay is almost done. We are planning to meet the call plan update. We're at the point now where we're cutting ice to create implementation. Okay, you're doing your you're at 80% 85% for the most part. Okay. Yeah. And you said it's an update. So are you just looking at I guess, flop and capital improvements and then just big picture recommendations? Okay. And that will make sure the separate process. I mean, it makes some recommendations and informs some prior readings for the CIP. So mainly flop and CTP updates and then just big, bigger guiding principles, cleaning up. So, okay, that's good. And then the overlay district walked me through, I guess, what's the objective or purpose of just the overlay? Is that a UDC? No, we don't use that model. It's a design manual. So it's a suggested palette of styles and materials and uses that the community contributed contributed by putting a lot the input into creating this document, this directing document. It has seen some modification as it makes way through the approval, gratification process. Okay. Okay. the architecture review board planning and zoning commission and then through council and late in the game, there were some modifications to the final content of the design manual and that's what ultimately ended up being codified in our zoning regulations. May it disappoint at some state onwards? Well they make it pretty clear. Yeah they were they had a lot of words. What predominantly related to building high and massing. More density less density. The original design manual allowed for a higher intensity. Total of buildings and that I mean, and that we're not talking high intensity. We're just talking higher than black with the million was. That two stories versus four or is that four versus six? There was the original proposition was three stories with the CUP choose story by right. The approved version is three story prohibited two story but CUP won a story by right a cap of 8,000 square feet, pretend total building cap of 1,000 square feet I think for structure. And most of the sentiment or opposition for that came through council. Okay, that's helpful. Yeah, that's helpful. The ECU's call walk out by that strategy. It was so romantic over staying proud of it. Yeah. For this point. There was kind of a next feedback, I would say, to be truly fair from the planning zone commission. Yeah. What is it? Made its way through ARB first, BNC had some. I think they have a little bit more mixed review than this board and then ARB did, but approved it as as presented. And this is a regulatory document, not a policy document. It turned into a zoning ordinance revision to try to quantify the big, the big, the, what was most important. And is that then approved? Is it, okay, so it's adopted, okay. But given, of course, approved being material out of the communications, the latest research. Of course. Except now you have enough control that anything that happens is gonna get negotiated through a development agreement. So then you'll probably have the ability to control materials. We do, and you can control. And, importantly, and through PDE, yeah, sure. So, essentially, you're, yeah, you've caged the cat. So, yes. Sorry for the details. It's helpful, though. I wonder, I'll come. Questions, gang. That's why we got these asking questions to her. If we don't understand the new hospital, I did jump in and ask. I guess I'll just kind of ask a following. It's all so essentially council has the ability to modify and the document or standards if it makes sense to do so. So that's the good news. My one other question, just if we were involved in that process, I would be curious to see, I mean, maybe we'll distill it down later, but I'd be curious to see what are the factors and objectives with that process. And if any of that was tested through other important lenses, I would think, you know, those are all important facts and decisions. And I mean, I would think in a community this size that, you know, a, a, a story building, you know, may or may not be appropriate in context with any location, if you just said it or I'll go 20 story building, 20 story building may or may not make sense in any context. The question would be if that got tested through some sort of a fiscal lens, if it was more of a subjective process. Not a bad answer. I'd just be curious to see what you my real my real because there's nothing wrong with the standards. I mean, but my question is what did what what did you rule in and what did you roll out with those additional regulations? And I don't know the answer to that, but it'd be interesting to see if you tested that two things that I would wait. Maybe I'm just going to say, is it related to the town center activation? I'll just apply it to this regardless of what happens outside of this. But I'd be curious to see what that allows and what that may disallow just on the face or the surface. Just curious. And then two, what are the fiscal implications, if you could quantify that, what are the fiscal implications of allowing or not allowing something, and does that have any meaning? Would council would council re-approach or would decision on certain things if you could, if you had better more fiscal impact? Or if there's some things that fit in a bucket that actually made sense that this essentially got regulated out inadvertently because you know it made sense on the surface to prove so and we we don't have to get here on that but I thank you for enlightening me because I do think it's applicable to just the general conversation and that's exactly the way I would think about it. Okay, no big deal. That's what if the council essentially is the ultimate decision-maker, if that's what and council was elected and we respect that process. So my question would be is, you know, is there things that you would actually want? There's things that the council would want, but maybe got regulated out and we could certainly explore or test that through the process. So that brings me to a question of, you're the developer in this case. We're talking to the developer. Hypothetically. Hypothetically, we're talking to the developer. And when you've talked to the developer, hypothetically, a developer, as you've already said, wants to make his money today. He never want to make it six six years from now, for 10 years from now, most developers I would assume. So maybe we can find that one that will work with us. But a lot of these things, what Aaron's just said and what has come through these comprehensive plans is, we're not going to go up four stories so that we can have condos above our town center. And that makes it very difficult, I would think. I'm just assuming, but knowing a little bit about construction, that would make it very difficult for a developer. And so my question to you is, the hypothetical developer, are you gonna just say, you know, I can't make enough money here? And that's the thing that I wonder. Yeah, there's a couple of analogues that are kind of running through my head. It is a great question. And I think it depends on the developer. I think the real question is, is for me today, maybe as a developer, hypothetically speaking, would be, is what is the market? I think that's, you know, and I think, what is the market today? What's the opportunity today? And from your perspective, what's the opportunity, you know, in five, 10, 15 years? And so as you, you know, McClendon Chisholm and Gourney continues to build out, and there's, rock wall, you know, the, the, the Kia projects and some of the other stuff are going to be announced. They're going to be out of what I would consider really for the most part. They're going to be close to build out on a lot of the commercial stuff. The, the, the easy low hanging through. And so as you continue to have more and more development pressure and there's less and less opportunity, you know, what what happens here. And so I'd be curious to see kind of what happens over time in terms of market. You know, but ultimately your pie is going to be so big, you know, and then that pie could be that pie could continue to grow. And I don't know where you are on the evolution, or you may be at the pinnacle. But as a developer, I'd be curious to see the stronger the market, I think I can overcome some of the regulations and standards and the obstacles. I'm not exactly sure today, sitting in the seat where you are in that development cycle. But I might be willing to overcome those, knowing that there's gonna be 60,000 more rooftops that I'm to, you know, then I can probably overcome those market forces and factors. Without having residential component, you may have eliminated. I'm going to, I'm completely making this number up, but you may have eliminated 70% of the development prospects that would be willing to play ball with you on this project. But it doesn't mean that the remaining 30% aren't necessarily best fit, high quality and capable. The one project that comes to my mind, and we can go there or not, but if y'all been to the village of Colleyville, that the Rilty Capital did, it was one of the first, what I would consider, original talent center, new urbanist designs, kind of outside of Highland Park Village and in the heart of Hollywood where their talent hall is. And although there's there's you know and most of that's two and three stories. I don't know if there's any four story buildings it at all. But we I don't know we need to but we type in the village at Collieville on the computer. It's easier. And we just finished working on a project for the town across roads. They inherited, they inherited a project through the entitlement process. and it was was 32 acres not quite the same scale. Their town function is a little bit different. They don't have property tax and so they're completely dominant and relied on sales tax. So residential, the village of Colleville. So we had two or three urban designers that we were working with. Yeah, you mean, you're on, yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's it. You can drive through there. To. Keep going back. You're running to their town center. That's just kind of their gateway. If you just keep driving down Main Street. Anyway, two story quaint buildings very meta buildings, very young Mediterranean, this may not be your cup of tea in terms of architecture, but this reminds me of a project that's got some cap, we have some caps and some scale of sort of product that makes sense, a lot of place making. There are two-story town homes in here that you could get back in the day, you could buy fee simple, or you can see little cluster of townhomes, and then it's all anchored in the back by new town hall. A lot of local, what I would consider regional local credit tenants. And so this is a, you know, this would be, this would be a very difficult business plan to pull off. And this project did, did struggle for a while because it's, it's so fragmented. And the buildings are so small and you're relying on local retail credit. So that really the challenge with the developers going to have on, on a project like this may not just be the exclusion of retail, but just getting enough rent releasing the cover debt coverage ratios are gonna be required by bank is difficult when you're doing things kind of incrementally without those anchors in place. Jason, is that where we can help? When we like to do a lot of ground leases that they get in and they can start their projects without the capital fine with the dirt. And they can we can put a jerk. Hey, you buy it from us in 10, 20 years or something like that. So we can plug into the capital structure that way to overcome some of these earlier. Sure, as it goes to scale. Sure. In my mind and theory, I mean, hypothetically speaking, you could give away a track to accomplish all your goals. And, you know, if you're getting, I'm making this up. If you're giving away $10 or $12 or $5 or $3 or $3, whatever you want to say, you know, you getting your, you know, the city, not you, you getting made whole, you know, can be done pretty quick through property tax and sales tax as long as it gets generated correctly so that the measuring success can be different from your perspective, you know, you'll have ability to monetize a project differently because you do have the benefit of creating the property tax and sales tax and we've seen a lot of public private partnerships get done through that but this would be one analog if you know this is this is definitely approachable. This would be something that you could drive out and see and touch and feel and go have an ice cream on a Saturday or Sunday after church that you could just get a flavor for. But if you said there what is an analog essentially would be unanchored. This happens to be adjacent to a couple of grocers, whole foods, ended up coming in and not an old Albertsons box. And then Crogret took over a Walmart box. But this is adjacent to Grocer in a village setting that basically has some of the same limitations that I've at least I've heard. I haven't read the poll. The regulating document. But anyway, this would be something that would be you could go see in one connection field. Are the parking lots arranged in the right way and did they plant the right trees and did you wish? You know, this the housing wasn't in there. I mean, you could pick this project apart. And it took it took this one a long time to mature. The key to this project in my mind and the the guys that did this are accessible was the fact that you know you had the city halls and anchoring the back. And that works. It's not as good as a theater or something that would draw a lot of track. It didn't create a lot of throughput. But it also, a lot of the infrastructure went in upfront and sort of legitimized the development and gave you something to build off of so that you could at least see kind of the critical, the critical infrastructure went in. And I think the developer in theory, I mean, this project's getting pretty old. I think it was built maybe in the late 90s, early 2000s. And it's weathered and matured pretty well but you know there's some things today that you would do differently in terms of design but it's... Well it's the market and then they've got this group that's the here and speaking the market kind of dictate why you're willing to put your neck out for a nod and what anchors you need to nod. I think this one's at more and more risk right so this one I mean obviously this is in Colleville that's really much more, I think, dense hub that has a lot more market that you know, it could feed. I mean, it's also competing with Southlake and Westlake and you know, you know, Keller. I mean, this is also competing with a lot of places and I think that's one of the things that, you know, this struggled with is also competing at the same time with South Lake Town Square. And I think it's a tenant, you know, very much, you know, you'd be, hey, I need to be on this side of the airport. I've got, you know, one, you know, a bullet to use and I think most of those bullets would go to South Lake Town Square. Just it was a bigger project. Yes sir. What is your feeling on the ultimate on the South Lake Town Square project? I mean, I saw that I moved here before that was, you know, that was just prairie land. Yeah, me too. It's been a while. What's my opinion on it or what do you think? I mean, your opinion on it and us, perhaps, taking that off a smaller version of that. I've done the overlay as far as looking at the footprint of their main street, when their town hall and the available land we have, and we could do something similar with the space that we have. Yeah, I mean, I think in terms of a vision, I think it's a fantastic project. Personally, I like phase one much better than phase two. Phase two feels, you know, that's why I think getting the bones, right, because I think the bones on phase one are appropriate. Phase two is a little bit less kind of strategic planning, a little bit more hodgepodge and film likes. Yeah, I'm sorry, the main. Try to put stuff in. I mean, South Lake would be really hard to create anywhere in the United States. I mean, you got here between West Lake and Alliance and DFW Airport on kind of a singular corridor that feeds all that. And just so the talent base, you know, and the income levels and the access to day parts. And I mean, there's just so many things that, you know, you're not on one 14. I mean, I don't know, I kind of felt like I was trying to get into City Hall today. I mean, the amount of traffic and throughput here is pretty impressive, but recreating that facility in that dynamic would be difficult to do but in terms of of executing something that had some similar bones I think is doable. But you all have other areas for open space and green space for programming that you can use for community events so you know you don't have that necessarily need that large of a scale as Central Park and that feature where they do all their Christmas tree lighting. So, I think understanding what, you know, what you would, you know, how to be strategic with this and the things that would be important as drivers and how to program this would be different to. And certainly the access to the market is just different here. So I think that's one thing, market calibration. If you said, what's the one thing that would continue, that I would help me understand this opportunity more, just be what is that market capacity and how much of that could you harness? And what are the competing nodes that would compete with this? And then what's the value proposition of this location against all the other alternatives? And those are the things that anecdotally I would have some answers to, but I couldn't defend that today. No one would know today, but I think that'd be something to resolve. And I'm not sure. I didn't see a lot of market sort of based decision-making in the planning process for this, but that would be one of the things that I would want to understand. It might change how I'd merchandise it, and it would probably change the velocity of absorption. I don't know that it would necessarily change the key outcomes of this. I think the bones of this will probably stay the same, but you know, what uses what I program in and what scale of uses, what I feel comfortable positioning for and then how fast could I anticipate absorption going back kind of developer equation. I think those are the things that are good analysis would help understand. The follow up on that, you kind of alluded to that there's some restrictions within our current planning, zoning, overall, comfort into the plan that restricts the developer from some of the things that they look for. Without tying you or your company, obviously specifically. We're not developers, so we're sort of somewhat agnostic, come in. I don't. We're not tied to anything or any bothers. So with that said, without the flu, without the traffic of 114 and what South like has, what would make it more appealing to a developer, generically speaking, that you would think we would need to overcome to make something with that vision. What would that goal look like? What would be some of the pain points as what we currently have in stone that we would need to at least visit and consider and then deal forward? Or is that just unobtainable with our traffic situation, our population density? No, I just don't know the answers. I don't think, yeah, I just don't have the answers. I don't think those are obstacles. I just think that those are things that I would want to understand and to help me position the property. I think I love, I would probably rather over-regulate something than I'm definitely under-regulated, especially if I was a community in your shoes with limited amount of assets. Fortunately, you control most of those, but with a limited amount of assets. So I think for me, that gives you a lot of tools in the toolbox. And I think the real question at room is, you know, you can look at Wall Street or development, development project on this scale, but they all function off of predictability, probability consistency. And I would be curious to see if a developer, or if you found the right developer and could cobble together the right structure, not perfect, but a good structure. If you would have the certainty, the entitlements, if you could actually execute and activate something that would be essentially approved and how much friction would you hit, because if I had the right, and I wanna say a good tenant, not the perfect tenant, but a good tenant, something that should be approved. Whatever that is, to you and your definition, but if there was the right tenant, could I get that through the entitlement process and built in what I have the assurance and the certainty for me, that would be the most important thing. if you know, and I was going to go back the other analog that doesn't exist is the 32 acre track that I was alluding to within the town with no property taxes is, you know, we we went on a journey to find an urban designer that could get comfortable with not integrating multi-family in a town center project. We had four or five planners that just they couldn't wrap their arms around not having residential in a town center project. Like they, like they just like, you know, and for them, like not having a residential, you know, in a town center project was a fatal flaw. You know, it was like, you know, it was almost malpractice. Like we don't, we don't want to go through that journey because we feel like that that's a critical component of a true mixed-use centers that we feel like that you need that livability and you need sort of the, in essence, the one thing, and I'm not an architect, so I can pick on architects, but the one thing I think, the other thing that I would want to test is what is the experience and the feeling and the scale that you get on a two story building or three story building. And I think the Colleague Town Center is a great analog for you to be able to experience that. But but can you with the proper amount of height and scale and massing and building placement, But residential does give you that little extra height that does create sort of that sense of place and that environment and that village center field. And it's hard to find things to do. You can, especially this goes back to market and this market, you know, can you lease up 20 or 30,000 square feet of second floor office? I don't know. But you can only get away with cheating to taller parapet walls on a single story building to sort of cheat and make that up. And so, and office is really tough to pencil. I mean, we're doing a fiscal exercise now on an infill piece in trophy club next to South Lake, kind of just down the street from South Lake Towns, same market. And, you know, everything else, the retail's carrying, the residential's carrying. But, you know, when we, when we load the project with office, even in an environment that's on the 114 carrot corridor with very successful office, you know, the analogs aren't there to really carry the cost of construction with the rents that you're going to get in office with the cap rates that you're getting because you're getting abused with cap rates because there's so much uncertainty around the future of office and how are we going to continue to sort of operate a post-COVID world. So for me, the lack of scale would be, what do you do to fill that up and how do you create the environment and execute a project that's village concept around single store buildings? So, and I've been to a lot of places that have a really good feel, and I could point to a lot of those single storey places that have a really good feel. But, and for me, what's right for you would be right for me. We can play, we can certainly play within the rules, but there's some things that you would be giving up without having that scale. And so, that may be something just to, I think that's, I call it sort of, it's just seeking the truth. And at some point, if there's reasons why you wouldn't wanna have more scale, even if it created a better project, and then you have to respect that. So, again, I'm not swimming upstream with council, just thinking that that would be the thing that I was thinking of is all right. We're going to fight scale with place making and I, you know, in same thing, you know, I assure you if we took a vote without even taking the vote that if we showed the difference between a project that was quaint and cute and well merchandise with no multi-family in it. And I showed you another project with multi-family in it that had similar bones. And you said, which ones do you want? I would think that 90% of the community would probably not vote for the multi-family project. If they're all things were being equal, if the outcome was equal. So, you know, I think. And so for that, for that fact, that actually adding multi-family to the crossroads project was, would create a negative value. There's no ad valorums. You get the indirect value off more people living there, but you can't. That's one thing you're going to get a lot of developers talking about, well, we need density, we need critical mass, we need people, we need spending power to support all this retail and restaurant that you get. But if you actually do the math from a market standpoint, you could never create enough residential density, you know, multi-family environment to drive the needle on one restaurant. So for me, you know, if it was like the village of Colleville, there's some great two-story townhomes. For me, it's really a ability, you know, the market was only so much and they weren't able to get leasing. College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College of College mass that they needed to build the project around the edges. It was the town homes. Yeah, you just you can't keep filling up retail with office on the top and expect all of it to be sustainable, even in that market. So any office on top? Of course, for sure. We did. We had a little project in Bartonville town center. If you guys know we're our guy, Bartonville, Montana, if you're familiar with that area, the developer built three, 30,000 square foot buildings. He just took the risk. He wanted an office space for himself and took the risk to build out all three buildings. So he had basically what 90,000 square feet of office on top of all the retail buildings. For the same reason, you know, just the look and feel of it would And those buildings stayed 85% 90% occupied. It way above market rents. But he had finished out offices. This is this is pre co working. So, but he had finished out offices. 90% occupied it way above market rents, but he had finished out offices. This is this is pre co-working, so but he had finished out offices. This is pre-co-working, but he had finished out offices. Most of them were around 1500, 2000 square feet. So those are sort of manageable sizes from people that were generally working from home. In that area, there happens to be a lot of a question money and oil and gas money. And I think a lot of people wanted their spouses to work outside the house, was tired of working in the office at home. And so there was a lot of these smaller offices that all found plug in place base that was already finished out, basically moving ready. And so because those are turnkey ready and available, it of, you know, some of the first executive suites almost, he kept those, he kept those for when I think to some degree, you've got a lot of, you know, home based businesses and and executives and, you know, you know, my, my guess is if you had 10,000 square feet of office space broken up into 1,500 square feet or 1,000 square feet suites and they were all finished out with available internet. You'd release them all up today. Yeah. Yeah. You need to install something. Yeah. You need to know the discounts. Yeah. There will be more cash in small space. Yeah. It's all booked out. I mean, every day is different. One other phenomenon I think we have to go snipe at the occurrence is the aging of our suburb of long-term residents so you have retirees 5,000 square foot house going I want to stay in this community but I had no place to go and you know I'm going to take two cruises this summer and I don't need to come back to the yard and hold that so So like when we talk, they're saying the word multifamily, I think of Brownstone or Condor or something in a downtown here at Dad. Could be potentially one day. I love this, I love this conversation. My wife, my wife and I have been married 23 years and I've got a 21 year old. It's graduating from Pepperdine and and head to law school. I'm going two or three nights a week and me doing this. It just did executive sessions and so we sold our house seven years ago and we went and rented a mid-rise luxury town home or a apartment on the Katie Trail. So we walkable to Knox and we're there six and a half years later later, we don't want to move. Like we've gotten so comfortable with that lifestyle. We could live probably anywhere we want, you know, in theory, in Dallas, Fort Worth. And we took the equity that we had in our house. We put it in the market, which is probably better than the appreciation that we would have gotten in the house. And now, you know, a couple weekends ago, we flew to Malibu, and spent the weekend with my daughter, and we'll close the door and left. And if we want to go on a two week vacation, somebody water's the plants, and let's have the dog. And it's a comfortable lifestyle. And again, it's, I think, we're renters by choice. And again, we would be a, we would have an income level, commensurate with most people in the community here and we have that lifestyle by choice. So, you know, is that something I think is important to this project from an economic development standpoint, probably not? And that was my point. We executed the 32 acre master plan and did not allow, by right ride any residential at all under any circumstances. We didn't eliminate it, we just didn't allow it. So if somebody wanted to propose a, in this case, a four-story building and two of that would be, you know, fee-simple, age restricted, you know, for sale product and that made sense in that moment of time, I think the talent could explore that but it's not a component. And that component though is pretty attractive. Yeah, I think from a from a market standpoint, you have to think that, you know, if I'm making this up, if you could get, you know, three dollar rents and it served an eat or you could sell You know West Lake is selling you know 1800 foot Town-owned condos for $2 million to an $1 million And that's another interesting analog is is in Trata West Lake It was a Jeff Blacker design Do you mind going to in Tr at West Lake. It was a Jeff Blacker design. Do you mind going to in Toronto at West Lake? You know, I think thank you Noah. For me, I think once you get past the development stage and you're moving on in a direction, I think, you know, and that's why I think having the overlay and the standards in the architectural requirements, um, where that took you, um, it's not, it's not a, you're an Allen for whatever reason. Um, doing Trata West Lake come into it or West Lake come into Texas. You were just there, but I would... come of Texas? Second one would go up. That'll work too. That works. You can drop any any one of those streets there. This is all again, Mediterranean architecture. It's this project's out of this world. I'll be the construction, you know, on this. And this is not my cup of tea. But this is this is West Lake, Texas. Just I don't know why we're picking everything west of the airport but this is right next to South Lake yeah but the standards here are really substantial they they this or yeah or more this is a project that mordads in turn American Uh, or more. This is a project that Mordod and Centering American put together with the original plan on this was Jeff Lockard. So, yeah. But those are $67 million clustered homes. I mean, it's, you know, but I don't know the residential my mind and necessarily a critical part of town center. I mean, maybe some missing mental housing would make sense somewhere. Maybe it's along the edges missing middle just more, more compact, you know, higher end doesn't necessarily need low quality, but maybe higher end town homes or, you know, there is that component that South Lake did some of that last phase they approved and yeah it's I mean I suppose three story yeah but it has that kind of yeah my brown sound. And again I feel like I'm you know going to Mallorcaca or the architecture here is really specific and these are really expensive, you know, per square foot. But I'm not suggesting that this architect would translate here, but, but anyway, I think, you know, I think residential could delight a component around the fringes rather that it comes within maybe the core that you all have, but you know, think some residential make sense for whatever reason. So. So tell me about, I guess I'm curious that the property that you is the, I did, I have the master plan is everything and read this is This is not all property owned by the EDC. This is multiple ownership, is that correct? That's right. What's the, I know I've got the reserve on here. What's the 21 acres that you have? There. I think that's changed. Okay, just. The same police broad. It's under contract. Is it? Yeah. Okay. It backs up the reserve. There's access to the natural system. In the in the reserve, I guess the plan for the reserve is that mostly open space with. Well, trying to attack to choose usually attract businesses? I like the word attack. That's the appropriate. Yeah, we're doing everything. Yes. You know, hair growing business plans, black cap, oil and all that. But, you know, wineries, dining, entertainment, all that stuff. you usually, you have a proprietor who's not a developer, who's trying to you operate, and they come to visit with us, or have dialogue, and not a extensive business plan. And so, you know, we take a lot of inquiries that maybe aren't up to stuff, and you know, are more pipe ratings than reality. So it's like, okay, that's where to be some type of partnership with a developer against the ground, but the building architecture, structures, writing, and idea behind that versus the group of folks that the multitude of backgrounds trying to design an area like that. Yeah. And maybe I think that maybe one of the, we can get into kind of the details in terms of execution, implementation, but when you've got a really solid plan, you've got really great design guidelines and you've got, you know, fee ownership. In a way, the city with the standards in place becomes the de facto master developer on all this. I mean, essentially, are... So how do you next do that? So I think we do have good visions. I'm saying the same thing. There's, yeah. But then, okay, what's the step to make it a reality besides waiting for something to come to me? And a guy says, I've got a winery. I like to build there, getting released along. Yeah, I mean, in a perfectery, I'd like to go there and get released along. Yeah, I mean, in a perfect, a perfect world, I think, having a really strong market analysis and understand, you know, how, what your negotiating position is and what's, what's the opportunity out there, I think, would be, would be helpful. And then the second plan in my mind is and is, and again, I need, we had a 30-minute cup of coffee and just kind of talk about big pictures. So I would want to understand, in terms of the town center zoning, and, you know, is it tied to a regulating plan in very specific form and how does the overlay impact that because ultimately I would want to understand how far the town is kind of taking the codification process on this. Because from there, you've got the bones, the can it can't ought. And then I would want to tighten up, you know, the phasing plan and the infrastructure strategy of whatever the catalyst project would be. Rather than eating the elephant because if the plan is good and the regulations are appropriate, then then all of this in theory can be executed in different phases with multiple parties where you're not necessarily relying or giving up control or taking on risk with any one individual. They're pros and cons of that. Obviously, if you've got one group, if you've got a lot of infrastructure, and we went back to the Colleville example, if you've got a lot of infrastructure that needs to be put in, it's really hard to do that piece mill and then sort of syndicate that in pieces and parts to get it done in a way. But I think for me, it would be identifying, making sure that all the canning can answer in place, and then totemets are there, and the regulating details are there, and then finding a catalyst project, and then finding a partner to execute the catalyst project under the right business plan. I would say with the right business plan in place. The business plan in my mind would look at for whatever that pod, let's just say it's a 20. with the right, I would say with the right business plan in place. And so the business plan in my mind would look at for whatever that pod, let's just say it's 21 acres I want to call it the right thing. So whatever, I'll just stay with the frontage on the 21 acres to develop that. What does a grading plan look like? What is the road network look like? What's the, you know, what's the phasing of that? you know, is it, is it one project or can it be, you know, in this case, based on the plan, you know, is it eight? And then what's the, you know, what's the engineering cost to develop the first phase of critical infrastructure and then go find a development partner to basically catalyze the first phase of the project? I'm just talking about that. That's what I was sitting here thinking about. I've actually been to the village of College of Liberal and that kind of feel is exactly what we're looking to work. Of course, the hard part is, I'm smiling at the net capital, but the building, I'm going next, where the flyer's talking about the first, that's very attractive to find but now that we've bought all this other land I'm thinking we need to rethink our whole connectivity ideas that we had before like in Colleville you're trying to have the anchor see that we kind of have those same anchors here I think that we've got the grocery store which back that's a land that we know. It's adjacent to other land that we now across the street from a big park where we do the tree lighting and all that kind of thing. I think the connectivity between here and the desert, the sun people chant. That Jackson property, we're going to do something. It's just different something different a little bit different It's kind of a nuanced version of this master plan of you seeing this okay, all right just a nuanced version of this yeah That's up to everything we're talking about doing We might have to have some sort of answer that connects those two spaces. Not in sight, because right now it's a drive-around kind of a situation. And if we're going to develop something like this that's all connected to our center, we might need to totally rethink infrastructure on the land that's now owned. And what would we want that to look by if it leads into the reserve, we might not want one big thing there. We might want it to be more cohesive with what we already own. And if I can connect it to the roadside or the bar that's that kind of then. And I can send this to you. I did a clip that this is six pages of kind of single space to go just kind of walk through the process. But a lot of this front half is really the visioning and the concept plan. And I'm assuming that this concept plan, you know, would, would, is, is good to go to market. If you all would need a tweak that, then I would probably, probably back up. But, but in the, in the big picture, if you're going to start from scratch, and you all've done this work, but it's, it's, what's the vision? What are the success factors in the design principles, right? The connectivity, the road network would be part of that. Then the concept plan would represent kind of the new overlay. And I think this does a fairly good job. That's what I'm saying. I think the bones are there. And then ultimately, it's getting down to what infrastructure would be required to deliver the core or the pod. And then in the zero back end to what I would say is a market driven approach. And I'd mention one of the hurdles is the debt coverage ratio. You can mitigate the developer risk by really getting ahead of that and sourcing those operators. So, you know, it's trying to figure out if you've got a brewery or if you've got the barbecue guy or if you've got the wine tasting, you know, room that, you know, is trying to figure out a way, then if you vet those out and there's something there, then you can marry that up now with somebody that can help you execute that, which then my mind would be the developer. So this is... You've got the revenue, right? So you've got the land, so that's not going anywhere. You've got control. You've got regulatory control. But really what's needed is really sourcing the operators that can become the catalyst, then y'all can wrap a developer around rather than trying to, you know, you can work both ways. You could, I'm making this up, but you could RFP a foreacre track and just say, hey, give me your best ideas. And we're ready to go to market. We're not going to do the whole thing, but we want the, we want, we'll call it catalyst project and you could RFP the catalyst project and let a developer kind of go to market and bring his own ideas. But one of the most successful things and we usually do it during the design phase is there's a lot of times we'll go out and do developer testing. We talked a little bit briefly about this with Justin, Suzanne. As we're exploring the new regulations and the comp plan that got released and the property that you own, and maybe not, we're gonna do an update to the concept plan as we would take it to Realty Capital that did Village, Calivilleville or Mardauds, and Tern American that did in Trot. And we would take it to projects that have been, you know, that align, that I can somewhat align with your vision. You know, they've got a balance sheet, they've got, you know, they've executed something before, they've done public private partnerships. You know, they're not in my mind, not looking for somebody institutional. You know, we're not we're not looking for somebody out of Boston to go, you know, so they've got local knowledge that, you know, which hopefully bring in some of the local tenants. And then we would reach out to them just to go do user testing. Hey, we're thinking about tweaking this. What changes would you make? And a lot of times we find out, hey, I've got a brewery, I'm making this up, but we've got a brewery and a barbecue guy that's been looking for a new home. We did the deal with them over here, and this might be a good spot for them. And then you're not caught in a vacuum. You're not caught in a vacuum with an RFP that's due June 1st, and it's sort of do or die. You've got the ability to sort of explore the options. And if you end up finding somebody, you find really interesting that has a good proposal then you can decide what to do with that at that point of time. So that's kind of our strategic, that's one of our strategic tools that works really well. So. That's the rules. Being a city, that's the role we would play. That's the role we would play. Yeah, we're our goal. So just kind of back up since Billingsley, we we we launched catalyst in 2010. With really we started on the activations in phase. And then we realized that a lot of times there wasn't unified vision. There wasn't any planning than done. And so we started going what I would consider upstream working on the planning and figuring these elements out because without having sort of unified vision and the right, you know, tools in place that that executing was, you know, sometimes working on the public side as impossible. And so, 15 years later, we worked on, I think, 2,800 projects across the country. And so we've got a really good essence of what works, what doesn't work, how to merchandise projects, and kind of the different tools, and what levers to pull, and based on just circumstances and market and what goals and outcomes exist from a local level. So. We are, y'all done half the work already. I guess that's kind of my point. a lot of times we'd start from the blank slate say hey we have we we ended up with this dirt or we inherited this dirt or we we bought this for an industrial project but the city really wants to see a gateway project and you know what do we do. And so a lot of times we'll start with a blank slate. The good news is y'all, you've done half the work. So. Jason, something's still up because we don't take the calls from the work. So. Jason, something's still off because we don't take the calls from developers that get us fired up. Not politics. We get, we're in the build a one story strip center with a robot tower or a nail salon. I don't know, I don't know how we can sign. Or we get an operator that we are, side now we are trying to find a home. Yeah. But never survived. Yeah. So so it could be a little more thing we had last summer in the moratorium. I don't know. But I'm saying multiple years or not take a phone call from a travel pro. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Of course, the Billings Air Central Crow, or somebody like that caliber. Yeah, part of it may be just the uncertainty and I know y'all've gone through an evolution of kind of figuring out what's important and who you want to be and kind of getting that political capital aligned. So some of it may be just market reputation and more perception, not reputation. Yeah. Yes. He's really wanted anybody. We're very, I don't want to get in trouble saying this, but we're not developing any of that. So I'm handing developers on the phone and go, don't go there. Hey, don't want to go out. And it's very difficult. This is our assistance to the manager for my plan. We have more conversations like I'm sorry. I'm sorry, it doesn't work. It's like that. But I think so. I think the important part. Again, I'm not going back to the market. The market's not that so vulnerable, but understand the market. So it really would give you some credibility and understand how strong. Of position you can take on uncertain things, how strong. And if you all come back, the market's unbelievable. And we're missing a huge opportunity. And we need to tell the world. And I think to, I think really selling the vision as a whole and having a path to be able to execute on that, in having adjacency predictability, you know, that multi-tenant building may not be bad if it's placed in the right location with the right elevations, you know, it may not be the perfect tenetmig, and I'm completely making this up by it's all situational, but it may not be the perfect tenant mix, but it's the right building and it's the right placement. It's the right catalyst tenant and it's something that you could build off of, you know, the tenant mix can sort of come and go. Most of those are on a three, five year lease, sometimes 10. And so, you know, that some of the tenants can evolve over time. On the other hand, I would say that the two most critical components of a really good project are design. I mean, you know, so getting the framework right and making sure that the architectural standards are strong and that there is some cohesive level. You go into different places and you know the one thing that sets most of the places and during places apart that you really enjoy visiting is probably just the architecture and the design of the buildings. I mean just the feel that you get an environment that creates and the second component is merchandising. What's there when you get there? What's the experiences? Is it worth shopping and buying and dining and hanging out and securing those things that create what I call the linger longer? I mean, you want things that help you draw gravity and that people can, you know, you all mentioned destination or cluster of's, you know, I think having those synergies and having the right merchandising mix is also critical. So, and that's also something that we do. We really work hard on, you know, market and merchandising and pulling the right pieces together because that's the second half of the equation. I heard you started exactly, said three-party exercise where what we've been doing for the last year is more of two-part of the exercise. So rather than there being city and prospect and developer, he's been city and EC or have been and they develop a coach for the process for the hands. This is a different. Yeah. and EC or have them develop a coach for the process for ends. This is a different time. It's also been very close. We haven't done anything that a lot of cities do to get their name out. We don't go that I see it. We don't have a big advertising company. Yeah, your net's not very big. I mean, that's a problem. You know, you're catching the same minors. You know, like, why are we keep catching minors? We just want one good fish or, you know, basket of fish and, you know, maybe your, you know, your net's too small for the holes in your net or too big or whatever, right? I mean, you just tell me, but yeah, I think having more of a a concier approach. But I, a thousand percent agree, and there's nothing subjective about this. Saying no to the wrong things is just as important as saying yes to the right things. And so, have you missed some opportunities or do you turn people away? You could have massaged into something workable maybe. But you may have said no to 80 to 90% of those that will probably the wrong thing at the wrong time at the wrong place. And so I think just, but if you get the business structure and the plan right, executing on that shouldn't be that hard. There's a million operators in Dallas for work that would take advantage of a captive audience that can be part of something that's destination and unique. And it's not that hard to me, even in Rockwell. There's not a lot of places that have placemaking that have been done right that y'all couldn't compete on head to head if executed appropriately. A few, not a lot. I mean, you know I'm waterfront views but I mean in terms of true place making, you know, and then you can expand that list of cities but past rainbow but I can't think of another place it's got an enduring town center that's lockable and has quality destination tenants. I just, you know, now Rockwell has a lot of competition in places that you could go and spend your money, but in terms of true experience and place making, you know, there's very few. That's our goal. The saying is, if we decide we want to back something in and wait on a prospect, or we know the type of businesses we want, you're trying to get a developer to come up with a building, someone's right on it and it will be bringing prospects. I think bringing, bringing, managing that process is one way to be proactive. I'm not saying, and I think it can work both ways, right? You know, if you all solicit a developer that had a tenant that works too, but I think you can also be proactive in solicit prospects and then find a way to deliver those with various developers. That's easy. Yeah. You know, the problem is find a developer that can deliver the tenant and the building standards that you want in that moment in time. And those things haven't been lining up. Those three things haven't been lining up. So, but if you had a tenant that said, I've got a business plan and I've got a balance sheet or I've got people that are willing to substitute their balance sheet for me and sponsor this, I need somebody to deliver building. I don't do that then finding somebody deliver the building You know, you know know what you want where it needs to go wouldn't you be that hard? We have a artery, right, bisecting almost perfectly, our lower discharge is frozen, almost going over standard that bad. Having this arteria, thearfer cutoff. The street right here, sorry, the street, street right there. Yeah. Yeah. Is that what I'm hearing the background? With, yeah, without, you know, ad hoc signals and, you know, complete streets, you know, the connectivity. Difficult. Yeah. Yeah, I think it, I mean, I think it ultimately becomes a mean there's probably some connect it tissue, but it becomes too complete sub districts in my mind as it matures just without having Really good tree crossings and intersections and Colleville is no different I mean I mean, yeah, there's good development on both sides of how it's 26 and Caligale. If we're going, stick with that analog, but very, very few people park in one side of the road and cross Colleville, I mean, you got United Market Street and lifetime fitness and I I mean, you've got, can you maybe just click out of the, up at the box and just go to Street View? It's a little bit better situation now because most things on this side of the street are, probably, you know, a bit far to the buildings. That side of the street will be, we're trying to develop all the retail. And And I'd have to, I mean, there's the great examples. And I mean, Cherry Creek and Denver has more traffic than, you know, you'll ever have in this road, is it maturs in, you know, 40 years, and then they make it work. It's very walkable. There's ways to connect the two. It'd just be more challenging. and I don't think that one side of the road is to necessarily completely co dependent on the other. We click on that maybe the layers here. This is completely different facility, but can you maybe just zoom in? I'm looking for central market. Maybe because of the amount of stuff we've had here. I mean, let me drive. I'll drive. I'll give it a minute. I may need to wake up. There you go. You can go down. There is. There's all foods. So I mean, you could walk from all foods to to the town center, but it's not a great walk. That was like hardware as Whole Foods next door. But yeah, I do think maybe Tweek, a small update to the concept master plan, you know, lining with any modification changes in the comp plan, you know, making sure testing in against the new overlay standards, I'm sure it's fine. And just making sure the street network is good. I don't know that I might even have Emily redo and patch some things in. I mean, I don't know that it needs to be a complete overall. And unless there's some fundamental flaws, you know, I think I'd be just reach week in the network a little bit. And then I think in my mind, it would be our figuring out what's the scale of the first phase in terms of catalyst project. And is it six buildings or is it one? I mean,? And it's you know because I really think in my mind the the perfect storm would be is that one one developer takes us all on and agrees to develop a lot of buildings but if it's set up appropriately all these you could have five different developers executing on different product types and all ended up in the same place and diverse fire risk and probably go to market a little bit quicker. And there's pros and cons about it. Maybe part of the user testing would be exploring the master developer that you are going to agree on a business plan. Agreeing on the business plan first and then taking you know and then vetting out a developer that will be willing to execute on that. But then not being rely on that. I mean if you all before per care and tenants and there's prospects out there that you know like to work on fire and you think they're worth doing than working backward and maybe finding the developer. And y'all have got some talent here that's capable of building on a scale and knows the regime well and knows kind of the canning cannots that could pull off for sure somebody with a decent balance sheet. What are we missing? I'd like to hear, let's say what would be next steps. We had this land with additional dirt in their contract. We got reserved that were making some in runs on with specific operators, but we want to talk about a catalyst project. Market analysis seems like the next day. Yeah, I think I'd love to look at how the reserve integrating the reserve with this down center master plan, treating it as one kind of holistic project, just really marrying the two together, assuming that they're relational, that there would be symbiotic at some point. And then in Miss Allen, I think maybe exploring from a city standpoint, from a technical standpoint, Are there any, you know, is there any modification to this grid pattern street network? Is there something that just wasn't an aha moment that didn't get baked into this vision document? Yeah, yeah. So, so, so, you know, if, if there was a small update to this master plan, just keen in some of the, you know, critical items and, you know, and tweaking it based on maybe things that you couldn't do with the overlay district. And I would just say just testing that it may be fine. And so, you know, don't redo anything to redo it. But I mean, I don't, my ego's not big enough to tell you need to redo redo all this is as terrible. I think actually looking at it, the bones are good. Jesus, what do you need to pass it? Just reviewing it. I mean, I think with with staff and going through and laying out the plan and saying, oh, if this got built, is this exactly the way or are there any changes just taking a fresh look at it and saying, you know, and that could be just just a workshop. You know, I define it too. So, but just in it, and it may be, it may be, it may just be with this group. I mean, it could be, you know, you are not necessarily technical experts, but maybe just sitting around having a, you know, this would be my idea if I could do this differently in a couple of the folks and maybe have staff just weigh in on it and it may be perfect. But certainly, I think from, from my standpoint, I didn't see a market analysis, but for me, I would definitely want some market qualification and just set expectations based on whatever the results of the more of some market study, market analysis and snapshot call it what you may, but I wouldn't want to understand kind of the magnitude of the development, the growth and the opportunity to traffic counts, the patterns, your competition, and just say, if we kind of put all that together, what is the opportunity? And because I think that would give me an end user, so I mean, would have multiple utility, me and a prospect, and a development partner. I think it would just kind of line out what is the opportunity in some of the risk and opportunity on one sort of document. And then from there, I think it's putting together a business plan. I, leading with incentives doesn't necessarily make sense because for me, perfect project is the incentives are that you get to develop in heat, right? That is the incentive. You made it through to the finish line. But, you know, looking at, you know, doing some user testing, taking, you know, whatever changes to this concept plan before you mature it to this point, there are any changes. And I would take that to the community to people that have executed projects that you all feel like have some similar look and feel and scale. The gotten done and getting some feedback on that. So it's not my opinion. It's not your opinion. It's not staff's opinion. It's not council's opinion. But we took this out to the market to be able to have done this before and these are some of the recommendations. They love this. There were some, you know, maybe they would recommend making changes on this. We took this out to the market to be able to have done this before and these are some of the recommendations. They love this. There were some, you know, maybe they would recommend making changes on this with the hopes that maybe one or two of those would have an interest. Yeah, if y'all end up getting a little bit further down the road on this and these the three things happen, then call us, you know, we've got somebody or we would be interested ourselves. And so that's a great sort of informal process to market the community and sell the project. And after that, I think it's putting together, you make it through that garment, any refinements that come out of that process would get then baked into maybe the cleaned up version of this. And then that would be your go-to-market tool. So we're your deliverable. Because once you've run that process, you now understand how that developer operator can get the economic return they can based on market analysis through lens or can cannot. right? Okay, Right. And then again, from from from there, the next depending on what your level of involvement would be is, you know, if there was some test of opinion, a probable cost or what would the exercise and grading or what would it cost to deliver the utilities, you're not doing that work. But there be some level of what I would call sort of pre development homework that you're just making sure that we've got enough retention. This is the cost of building the rows in the first phase. I've got a plan to deliver water and sewer, not necessarily designing and or doing with the infrastructure, but would you understand what it would take to activate the site? And so if you go to a developer, you're not you're not start from ground zero. And that's really it. I mean at that point it's engineering and at that point it's site planning and engineering and I mean it's you know approving elevations and things that y'all have control over anyway. I'm assuming the design standards and regulations that are in the overlay are applicable to the buildings and façades. So I mean, you don't have to do that process. Well, we'll still have a big evidence. Of course. Of course. But some they're it's not quite pattern but but but they're three proof Yeah Yeah, you are really a theory you're you're I mean I'm not a huge sports guy, but but I think you're somewhere between first and second basins It's not like you're starting for scratch and I think a lot of the principles and you of the principles and you know the vision and I mean where you all want to go in the outcome. I think that's very consistent with with the work that's already the groundwork that's already been laid. So it's not like we're having to file new ground per se. I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be doing. I'm going. Jason, we appreciate your time. As well. This has been tremendous help. I'm really glad you're on the conversation. I think it validates a lot of our things. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we're way off in the woods. And it's. Possibly. Yeah. There's a path that is certainly plausible. So I think it's just alignment of expectations and understanding where a market is. I think you all, you may be possibly, don't know, but you may be overreaching in terms of expectations and underestimating where market is. So I think the center is not don't I mean I think the centers is not that far off. I think it may be the you know maybe trying to find the balance between those two And I think you may my perception maybe is that Yama be anticipating that you actually have to give away more control or Give up more value than you really would actually would to pull this off if you can find the right parties. That's the good news. Thank you. Appreciate it. We'll be in touch. Thank you so much. I'm more more gender. So sorry, I should have told me I only had 10 minutes. Oh, I'm more in on her seat. Oh, all right. All right. All right. All right. So at 7-11, item number four, 7-11, we'll go into executive session 4.A, board should be in close executive session, resumed to sections 551.072 and 551.087 of the Texas government code to deliberate regarding purchase exchange lease or value of real property and commercial or financial information to the city has received from a business prospect and to deliver the offer of a financial other incentive to a business prospect. All right. So we're interested. Yeah. It's not that if I am needs it. Thanks, gentlemen. Thank you.