Welcome to the May 2025 meeting of the Community Planning and Preservation Commission for the City of St. Petersburg. This commission reviews proposed changes to the comprehensive plan, land use and zoning, as well as historic preservation related proposals and makes recommendations to the City Council. Our agenda today includes presentations. Staff, the applicant and any registered opponent each have approximately 10 minutes for their presentation. After the presentations, each member of the public who wishes to address the commission will have three minutes to speak. Please be sure to fill out a green comment card the front podium and hand it to the clerk. When caught on to speak, please step up to the podium and state your name and address for the record and whether or not you have been sworn in. We ask that you make your remarks brief and not repetitive of prior testimony. All questions are to be directed to me as chair. I will in turn redirect the questions to the appropriate person for response. At the conclusion of these steps, the commission will enter into executive session. Commissioners may ask questions at any time during this process upon being recognized by the chair. At this time, I ask that all cell phones be silenced. And Iris, can we have Rokal? Marbe, here. Gardner. Magnello. Here. Brasco. Here. Davis, here. Gardner, Magnello, Carasco, Davis, here. Jeffrey, Nelson, here. Great, here. Wanna Maker, here. Michael's, and we have a quorum. And at this time, please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. If there is anyone who will be speaking before the commission today, please stand and raise your right hands that you may be sworn in. Do you swear or affirm that the evidence will give today the the whole of the meeting minutes from last month. Does anyone have any discussion or comments? Okay. If there are no corrections to the minutes, I will take a motion. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. Minutes are approved. Next is the public comment portion of this meeting. Mr. Belmont, perfect. You have three minutes to speak. Good afternoon. Some of you haven't seen you in a while. We don't really know one another, but I'm here on behalf of the Board this afternoon. I want to just say a couple of things. One, I think Derek's going to talk about preservation month at the end of the meeting. We're excited because we have some great events for the month as well. The big event, which is tomorrow night, is Preservation Awards. So every other year, Preservative the Bird gives out awards to property owners, contractors, architects, et cetera, who've done great work in keeping our city special and preserving our past. And so we're excited to be doing that again. I know some of you are coming. Some of you have, I think, helped out some in the event. Some of you may be involved in some of the awards. So we certainly invite all of you. We'll be at the UU Church tomorrow evening. If you're interested in coming, please go to our website, preservetheburb.org, and you're welcome to sign up, or you're welcome to come down six o'clock tomorrow. We also have some tours going on. We have a special tour over in Ebor City. Manny Lido, our executive director, will be leading that. Manny is actually a Tampa native so he knows the area well so that's going to be this Saturday. We have other tours. We're very active with walking tours around the city. The other thing I just wanted to note I'm not sure what's happening scheduling the wise at one point I heard that maybe there was going to be some type of workshop or discussion at the end of today's meeting regarding your joint meeting with City Council, which at this time I believe is scheduled for this summer. I'll just note under the City's comprehensive plan that's supposed to take place every year. It hasn't. It's going to take place. I believe this year it's scheduled at any rate. I assume Derek will be talking to you more about that as well. But I just did want to note that it is part of our comprehensive plan. The plan says among other things that you and Council are to get together each year to discuss how to improve the preservation program. And so I hope you give some thought to what topics you might discuss with Council. There are two I'll suggest you might want to discuss. One is Central Avenue. How do we maintain that wonderful place, that wonderful economic driver for the city? And the other is, everything has an acronym these days. NOAA. Naturally occurring affordable housing. So, preservation, along along with affordable housing grants is a great combination to help address the problem. And I think most experts will tell you that we will never solve the affordable housing issue without reusing what we have. And so I think the city has embarked on plans and policies to help do that, but I think there's more the city can do. So I think that's a great topic for you and council to discuss at your workshop. So thank you. I look forward to seeing you again. Hope some of you or all of you can make it tomorrow night to the awards. And thank you, sir. Have a good meeting. Is there anyone else that wishes to make any public comments? Did we receive any other cards? Okay. All right. At this time, I will have Iris read the first item into the record. And this is City File Flum 72. It's a private initiated application requesting amendments to the future land use map and concurrent amendments to the official zoning map for three sites totaling 3.29 acres that are situated within one-third of a mile of each other off of 4th Street North. sites are located within the coastal high hazard area CHH a development agreement DA is Associated with these amendments the owner is Jonathan Stanton with With Lima construction. Sorry, and the agent is Craig Taraski and the staff planner is Britainon Wilson. Thank you. Hi, good afternoon. Britton Wilson City planner presenting amendments to the future land use map and official zoning atlas with an associated development agreement for three sites located in the gateway area and the amendments were initiated by Lima construction. The application consists of these three properties all located on the east side of Forest Street North. Site 1 is unimproved and located east of a hundred and tenth Avenue North and is 1.23 acres. Site 2 is partially improved with a wireless communications tower and is located on the north side of a 108th Avenue North and is 0.71 acres. And Site 3 is located at the northeast corner of Third Street North in Gandy Boulevard and is 1.35 acres. And so altogether the site's total 3.29 acres. Here are the surrounding uses. Starting on the top right, we have site one that is vacant. Site two is vacant except for the communications tower. Then we have the Gateway Mobile Home Park, Sienna Bay apartments, and then new construction of town homes, which are located directly east of Site three, which is also vacant. Then to the west of Site 3 is a law office followed by adventurer Bay Assistive Living, more apartments and then up to the northwest just out of view is the Bay View Commercial Plaza that has a Windixie Anchor tenant. In all these are lowlying areas located in flood zones and the Coastal High Hazard Area are CHHA. This is the future land use map showing all three sites as split between residential, medium, and preservation land use. Here's a side-by-side of both the existing and proposed future land use map with the hatched area representing the CHHM. So site 1 is 1.23 acres with .38 acres designated as preservation and .85 acres designated residential medium that is proposed to be entirely preservation. Site two is a point seven one acre site where point five one acres are designated preservation and point two acres are currently residential medium that is proposed to be entirely residential office general. And site 3 is a 1.35 acre site where 0.3 acres are currently designated preservation and 0.62 acres are residential medium that is proposed to be mostly residential medium with a thin 1.13 acre strip of preservation aside that's not noticeable here underneath the dashed border. This is a zoning map again showing all three sites with split zoning of preservation and neighborhood suburban multifamily or NSM1. And this is a side by side of both the existing and proposed zoning where site one is proposed to be entirely as maintained preservation, site two is to be entirely corridor residential suburban, or CRS one, to Lafayl office space, and site three is proposed for neighborhood suburban multifamily to develop 20 townhams with a strip of preservation on the eastern border. This slide addresses the change in development potential that would result from the map amendments in the development agreement. So the total overall existing density allotment on all three sites is 25 dwelling units. The total overall existing intensity allotment is 3,500 square feet derived from the preservation designation to as much as 39,500 square feet derived from the residential medium designation. So it's a sliding scale. If they do not build to the maximum allowed density, the remaining density can be converted to intensity and would be available for development. So the proposed changes would allow up to 29 dwelling units and again, a range of intensity up to 45,000 square feet would be permitted. However, the development agreement restricts the overall density to only 20 units and intensity to 10,000 square feet, which is less than the existing entitlements. And the detailed math of, it is it's itemized in the staff report. Also noted in the staff report, the proposed amendments are consistent with many policies of the comprehensive plan and to highlight a few, the proposal furthers these policies and objectives as it's decreasing the overall allowed number of dwelling units, thereby directing population concentrations away from the coastal high hazard areas. And the proposed amendments are consistent with the surrounding area that is predominantly multifamily and located on a major roadway. This slide lists the terms of the 15 year development agreement. It limits the overall total density to 20 dwelling units to be located on site three. It limits the overall intensity to 10,000 square feet on site two. It requires Site one and an eastern portion of site three to be maintained as preservation land. It requires regular maintenance and reporting of these areas and it provides a financial guarantee necessary for maintaining the preservation areas. And lastly, it requires restoration of the preservation area on site one to commence prior to releasing building permits for site two and three. So with that staff recommends a finding of consistency with the plans of plan and to recommend to city council approval of the proposed feature land use and zoning changes along with the associated DA because the proposal directs population concentrations away from the coastal high hazard area and is consistent with the surrounding neighborhoods land use and zoning pattern and provides a financial guarantee for maintenance of the preservation areas. And that concludes my presentation and the applicant also has a presentation for you. Great. Thank you. Good afternoon, Craig Taraski for the applicant. I'll try not to duplicate Britain's presentation. She already went over the relative location of the three parcels and the proposed existing proposed future land use and zoning. We did go through DRC to get approval of the mitigation for the preservation areas. And the concept is these are small, isolated, underperforming, low value pieces of preservation area. And this proposal essentially condenses the preservation up to site one over an acre. It'll be constructed wetlands, so it'll be a high value preservation area that will be a net benefit to the ecosystem. These are the existing zoning and future land use maps for site one. Notice the slight discrepancy. There was some vacation of right-of-ways in the past, so this will actually help clean up and make the zoning consistent. Again, site one is proposed to be entirely preservation zoning and future land use. Site two, existing zoning and future land use. This is the site that is currently developed with a cell tower. There's a little bit of history on site too. It was previously zoned ROP, mixed use, and there was an office that was approved for the site and never built. There was also the cell tower that was built back and it was approved in 2009. That approval in 2009 for the cell tower was a special exception with variants, certain variances, including a variance to the required mitigation for the preservation, somewhat similar we're doing today, or we did DRC, it was already approved. The result of that 2009 approval was the creation of a new .17 acre preservation area on the west side of the parcel and the balance of that parcel was proposed to be disturbed with the construction of the cell tower access drive in office. Strangely there was no zoning or future land use map amendments to reflect that change in preservation area. However, it was replatted with a new preservation. You can see, let's see. It's hard to see on these old plans, but there's a cross-tatched area. That's the preservation area. The map still shows that same area today. And on the west side of the parcel is the .178 preservation that was approved in 2009. And a special condition of that approval was to replat that lot to include that preservation area. So this is the current replat that parcel showing that 0.17 preservation area. This is the proposed site plan for the office, some warehouse storage associated with that office, accessory storage, and the existing cell tower facility to remain. These are photos of site two existing conditions. You can see the cell tower and the access drive. There's some clearing, a lot of invasive vegetation, Brazilian peppers, some debris. This is actually, it looks like maybe a homeless encampment. It's hard to see in the photo, but there's a fire pit and a bunch of clothing scattered about. So, site three, existing zoning and future land use, some mixed preservation, resident, resident, photo, but there's a fire pit and a bunch of clothing scattered about. Site 3, existing zoning and future land use, some mixed preservation and residential medium. Again, there's some debris, it's overrun with invasive vegetation, and the west side of that alley to the rear of that property is currently being developed as a townhome development. The alley is not improved and the alley is not proposed to be improved either with the neighboring townhome development or the proposed on our site. There is a North is to the left. So there's the unimproved alley, and we are proposing an extra strip of preservation along that unimproved alley and we are proposing an extra strip of preservation along that unimproved alley to provide some vegetative buffer between the two uses. 20 units townhome development and as also part of this application we're proposing in a development development agreement that will establish that the site one and site three preservation areas will be restored, established, and managed. There's an annual inspection and reporting obligation to make sure that occurs. There's an escrow of funds that can be drawn upon by the city to perform that maintenance should the applicant fail to. And there's used restrictions on site two, which is the office and cell tower, no residential uses and the non-resident judge of uses will not exceed 10,000 square feet. And on site three, that's the townhome development, capped at 20 dwelling units. And under the NS1 zoning by right market is 18, but there's a workforce bonus available, so we'll be able to utilize two units of workforce on that to get to 20. And this is the overall, you know, to try to boil it down into development potential, and Britain also showed you some information on this that, you know, the proposed rezoning and future land use amendments with the restrictions in the development agreement will yield a net reduction in residential density or residential dwelling potential and intensity in the floor area ratio. So we'll ask that we've approved these amendments that we propose to you today. Thank you. Thank you. Next we'll move into the public hearing. I did not receive any cards for this item. I do not believe in the staff report there had been any public comments. Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak on this item from the public? Okay. Now we're going to move into cross-examination. City staff, do you have any cross-examination for the applicant? City waves, thank you. Okay. Does the applicant have any cross-examination? Oh, wave. Thank you. And does the city have any closing remarks? City waves. Okay. Does the applicant have any closing remarks? Great. So now we're going to move into executive session. Would anybody like to start? I have just a couple questions. I guess I put a lot of weight into the Habitat Management report that was cited as helping to, helping to, I guess it's the habitat management plan prepared by barge design solutions as helping to advise the city and the developer as to what is best use for the sites one, two, and three. So I do put a lot of weight into that because they do appear to be experts on the topic. So I also, just a question about the wildlife. I don't know if you can answer this or not, but I noticed that each of the three sites had different wildlife species. Is it thought that maybe all the wildlife from sites two and three will relocate to site one or what will happen to the wildlife? That's beyond my. It was just unique to me that each one of the sites had different wildlife. None of them were protected, but I was just curious. I will add on that subject, the city also engaged in our own environmental consult to do a review of the application. Right. No go for tortoises, no bald eagles, nothing like that. So anyway, okay. Thank you very much. Yes. Follow up question. So for that, for the different, is there any type of effort to kind of ensure that that wildlife won't be harmed or they will be safely, I guess the areas there will be an area, areas provided for them to get transitioned to. For the wildlife in the different areas, is there any type of plan for that? Well, there are no endangered species that we're aware of on the site. There is part of the restoration plan. It's more about establishing habitat. With the expectation, I'm assuming that the wild life will find its way to the desirable habitat. There is nothing in in Barge's report or plan that talks to relocating actual animals in wildlife. But there's efforts to make sure that the habitat is replicated for a lot of people. Yes, and I think need to realize these are very small areas within developed, you know, surrounding development. These aren't large expanses of preserve that have a large volume of fauna. I walked through the sights. I saw rats, snakes, birds, lots of birds. I didn't the sites. I saw rats, snakes, birds, lots of birds. I didn't see anything other than that, just in my own observation. Thank you. So, reading through the report, I see a lot of information on site one of what disarray. Let's just use that as a word. It's in that with a lot of crash and tires and rubble and things like that. And I understand that there's a maintenance plan in place, but what about the ownership of that site? How will that be handled through the development agreement? Will it remain an ownership as a sole site or is it going to be part of sites to and or? So it's currently and you can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe site one and site two are under the same ownership so the office is his office for his business that entity will own currently on site one and the development agreement with the obligations and the escrow agreement will run with the land. Should it pass to another owner, those obligations would still, under the development agreement would still be there, as well as the obligations to maintain under the city's land development regulations as well. So there's two layers there. Thank you. I participated on Saturday on the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council's task force on resiliency. And we visited two neighborhoods. One was Shore Acres and the other was Riviera Bay, both which were very hard hit by the storms this past year. And one of the strategies that is being looked at for the city here to try to mitigate that level of destruction. From occurring again is the idea of having natural land areas to absorb heavy rainfall, intense rainfall and where there is the potential for a surge to actually a block or slow down the surge. There's been a lot of studies done, for example, of mangroves and the effectiveness of that vegetation in reducing surge impact. So having had that experience on Saturday as I read through this, I really had a question here about whether or not the proposal here meets the policy, LU 7.1C, which is a mandatory policy. It says that utilization of existing disturbed areas, that's like the title, and then it goes on to say, the requested amendment will result in the utilization of existing disturbed areas as opposed to natural areas that buffer existing development for coastal storms. So I'm struggling with that, with to this proposal. I mean there is a reduction in the net acreage of preservation land over the three sites here. And these sites, even they may be small, still could have a significant impact on mitigating the effect of extreme weather on the residences in the nearby areas. We had a lot of that going on on Saturday where improvements were attempted in one block, which helped some residents only to increase the flooding on the houses across the street. And you had a kind of, you know, you weren't really achieving your purpose there. It would help me with this type of an application if the city engineer could take a look at this because it's not just these huge improvements. It's the micro improvements or the micro land parcels that are natural, that are preservation that seem to be having a dynamic effect upon either mitigating or not, intense flooding in neighborhoods throughout the city. Thank you. I think that I just wanted to add, kind of putting on my more environmental hat is that I do agree that from the images that they shared that the ecosystems that are present on the sites are definitely degraded, which when things are so impacted and they're not healthy, those can can have almost just as much drainage issues as impervious surfaces. And I do think that while we are losing some net preservation area, it is better to have one larger area for preservation that is well maintained, rather than scattered, kind of un-maintained bits of preservation. And the only thing I did also see when you're talking about the species is that on here it did state that most of the species were highly mobile like birds and butterflies and rats. So that's That's just something I wanted to add about kind of the environmental side on that. I'll throw another point. I like this one because we can wear both our hats, both preservation and zoning. From the preservation side, honestly disappointed to see where the three lots are current status and that they weren't properly up-capped and I didn't read through the agreement but I would hope with the larger site that you know people are kept honest and and upkeeping it and you know it doesn't become a larger trash pile than the other three smaller sites that's just more of an opinion and then from a zoning standpoint I'm kind of torn on this one a little bit because it is in the flood zone and I know the area pretty well. My parents lived down the road and there's sandwich between shore acres and the town below them. Anyway, they're in Kaya Kosta and thankfully only half a Kaya Kosta flooded because it does have a good mangrove edge line there, and they actually built that peninsula in the 80s, and it was two feet higher than everywhere else, so the developer did a phenomenal job. But anyway, so there's still water damage. But when I see us looking at parcels that are rezoning to make these more efficient for the builders, at the end of the day, we're allowing residential use to really become economical for the builder but we're still putting residential parcels in a flood zone. I see that you guys have garages on the ground so I'm assuming living areas up above see meat the 11 foot and VGD etc. But for my understanding unless they own it out right right, there's still not to play for flood insurance because they're in a flood zone. I'm hearing that it's your office, that's great, but if you're able to lease it out, any tenant that goes in there, that office is on the ground floor, so it's gonna get soaked. So I don't know, when I see the first half of this and look at combining everything into one acre parcel for preservation, I think it's great. It's a smart tactic. Again, my residential hat would say, as long as we maintain it properly and it doesn't become that. And honestly, just from the zoning side, I think because we're all still a little bit trapped from the last storms, it's on everybody's mind. And we're actually trying to sell my parents down home right now and really struggling because it's in a flood zone. So and they can't afford the insurance that's gone up. So we are one of the statistics. And so here we sit, we're about to change, potentially change the zoning to allow more residents to come in, which might just be adding to the problem really, you know, here we sit, we're about to change, you know, potentially change a zoning to allow more residents to come in, which might just be adding to the problem, really, you know, needed focus on. And I don't want to, I don't want to zero out your application. It's me just kind of also venting up here too. So, anyway, I wanted to kind of put those two sides out there. I have one more comment, one question for the city. And this does not pertain to the application specifically, but I did notice that between sites one and two, there's a building that's constructed in between sites one and two, and it looks like it's sitting right on top of preservation. How did that happen? How did it happen that a building got constructed on right on top of the preservation zoning set aside? Similar to subject site 2 that has a cellular tower in preservation 10, 15 years ago when it went before the commission, they approved the site plans and were just required changing the plat to designate and relocate the preservation and they didn't go through the formal land use and zoning process. Okay. Unfortunately. Okay. Okay. All right, just curious. Yeah, thanks. I'm going to be a deep project. Was anyone else have any comments or anything we want to discuss? Okay. Seeing none, Iris, can we take a vote? Or did I? I apologize. Can I please have a motion? I'll make a motion. Okay. I'd like to move the planning and preservation commission make the finding of consistency with the comprehensive plan and recommend to city council approval of the proposed future land use and official zoning map amendments with the associated development agreement described here in. We have a second. A second. All right, Marbe. Yes. Magnello. Yes. For ask. Yes. Davis. Yes.co. Yes Davis. Yes Jeffrey. Yes Nelson. Yes And Drake. Yes, and that motion passes. Thank you I. Iris will you please read the second item into the agenda. And that is city file number 25-903-00001. The request is an owner initiated designation of the Emory House as a local historic landmark in the St. Petersburg register of historic places. The owners are Joanne and John Mannwaring. The agent is preserved the Berg, Emily L. Wynn and that address is 1947 Beach Drive Southeast. Our staff planner is Cindy Cohanick. Good afternoon, Cindy Cohanick, historic preservation is with the City of St. Pete. This project is a review of a local landmark designation for 1947 Beach Drive Southeast, the William E. and Margaret H. Emory House. No public comments were received for this project. 1947 Beach Drive Southeast is located in the old southeast neighborhood and is part of the old southeast local hex block district as well as part of the artist enclave district. The house was built for William and Margaret Emory in the Rouseland section of Old Southeast. The Emories were originally from Massachusetts, where William worked in textile manufacturing. Like many early St. Pete residents, the Emories were winter visitors prior to establishing a more permanent resident in St. Petersburg. They continued to spend significant time out of state during the summer months after the house was built. After William Emory passed away in 1937, Margaret continued to live at the house until her passing in 1963. The building permit for the house and garage was issued in August 1922. The structures may not have actually been completed until the next year. At the time of construction, the house was addressed at 1747 Beach Drive South. This was prior to the city-wide street renaming with a two-place in 1928, in which 18th Ave South was renamed to 20th Ave South. In 1923, the sandboard map shown here depicts the area prior to the street renaming, and while this block section looks somewhat developed at the time, only about a quarter of the surrounding blocks have houses on them. The Emory House is a single-story masonry bungalow. The house was constructed in a mix of styles, including Mediterranean revival, prairie, and craftsmen or art and crafts styles that were popular at the time of construction. The main structure forms an H plan and is constructed atop to raise grade supported by a retaining wall. While the structure has always been addressed to beach drive, the entrance and 20th Ave Southeast functions as the main entrance. Also on site is a single story masonry garage on the west side of the property. Details on the bungalow are too many to name here, but our characteristic of an architect designed house. Some of the more notable include tapered hexagonal columns, framing an original door on 20th Ave, Southeast Side. Gloss-finished terracotta, let-o-witchy Spanish tile roof, and green with lion's head hip starters. A stucco-clad chimney, exposed beam supporting wide eve overhangs, tongue-engrued boards, and closing the rafters. Alabbert vents in the gable ends, diamond shaped vents in the foundation, and prairie style window planter boxes with plasters and wood accents. The windows are an eclectic mix of double hung and casements, some common and some not so common configurations, site features include decorative concrete panels framing the driveway and a rusticated block retaining wall. The garage has a parapet topped with green roof tile and an original door on the rear elevation. Alterations over the years have been minimal to the main structure. The 1935 enclosure of the Beach Drive Southeast porch has attained its own historic significance. And in 1974, an addition was made to the garage to convert to living space which was mostly sympathetic to the original structure. The replacement roofs were completed in 2003 for both the main house and the garage, the main house and the parapet on top of the garage being the green lot of weachy roof tile and then the garage roof behind that is a parapet flat roof system. Definitive documentation of the original color of the roof tile has not been located but while most Mediterranean revival style houses in the area have red clay tile roofs. A green tile roof was also common for this style. The Lionshead hip starters on the main house appeared have been added in the 2003 re-roof since they do not appear in the 1992 survey images. The house was designed by Henry H. DuPont and built by Franklin J. Mason. Henry DuPont came to St. Petersburg in 1914 after working as an architect in Indianapolis. His local designs range from single-family residents to larger commercial structures like the Don Cesar and the Pennsylvania Hotel. Prior to his arrival in St. Petersburg, DuPont collaborated with Carl Prinsler on the first panic exit bar device which allows someone to easily exit a locked door from the inside. Franklin Mason came to St. Petersburg in 1920 where his contracting company grew rather quickly. Mason's company worked on many buildings in the area, some of the more notable, including the Princess Martha, the Pennsylvania Hotel, and the St. Petersburg Central High School. Criteria for eligibility, the evaluation yields at the Emory House meets four of the criteria for eligibility listed here. And for areas of significance, the Emory House, the subject property is an example of how a significant portions of the residential areas in St. Petersburg and throughout Florida developed as homes for winter residents. The buildings are architect design with the main structure of mix of architectural styles and many high-style details. Henry DuPont was not only a locally significant for his residential and commercial designs in St. Pete Beach and beyond, but adaptations of the Panic exit bar that he collaborated on are still utilized in commercial buildings today. In addition to significance, resource must demonstrate at least one factor of historic integrity. To be considered for listing, this property meets 7 of 7. Here's an abbreviated list of character defining features. The staff report provides a much more exhaustive list. It should be noted that the character defining features listed in the staff report include those lion's head hip starters, which are not a historic feature and would not be required to be retained when and if the roof is replaced. And perhaps not a character defining feature, but wrapping up with a view of Lansing Park as seen from the front of the Emory House, or at least on the beach drive side. Staff is here for any questions and the applicant is present as well. Thank you. Okay. Does the applicant have a presentation? I'm Joanne Mann wearing and my husband, Jack. We're just thrilled that we got to this point and we thank you for your consideration. And hello, good afternoon. I'm Emily Ellwin and I am with Preserve the Berg. I'm a volunteer historic preservationist. You've been sworn in yet. I have not, because I'm perfectly perfect. We'll do that really, really quite. Thank you. Is there anybody? Is there any? Sorry. Do you sort of art found that the advent you will get today will be retrieved the whole truth and that the truth? I do. And I apologize for my tardiness. I flew in late last night and had my time change. I'll mix up. So I hate to be late. But I wanted to just say this is a kind of project that preserve the Berg loves to work with owners that want to bring forth their properties for historic designation. And part of our advocacy at preserve the Berg is when we can provide the funds and the professional expertise to create a thorough landmark nomination. And you know, sometimes we can do them with owner support, which is really how we want to do this, and it's wonderful to show people that this is, you know, this is important, this is a house, but it's an important house in St. Pete. It's reflective of our community and it's important to be preserved. So we are pleased that we could assist in this, and I'm here for any questions you have as well. Thanks. Okay. Thank you. I did not receive any comment cards on this item. Does anyone in the audience wish to speak on this item? Seeing none. Okay. We're going to move into cross-examination city staff. City staff waves. Great. Does the applicant have any cross-examination for city staff? Okay. The applicant waves. Does city staff have any closing remarks? The staff waves? Great. Does the applicant have any closing remarks? Okay. The applicant waves. Now we're going to move into executive session. Well, I'd just like to congratulate the owners here on bringing this forth and also preserve the berg. I think it's fantastic, very encouraging to see this interest in preserving the landmarks of our city. I think this is like the fourth landmark in Old Southeast. Maybe we should be looking at a historic district there pretty soon. So congratulations to you all. Same. Also, did the homestuffer any damage during the hurricanes? Did you have any flooding or no roof tile? Roof tile, flew off your roof. Great. The first man got a tree that's a roof that is that third game stuff. That is so good to hear. Speaking of the roof, thank you very much for identifying and specifically specifying where that roof tile came from, the Ludwichi Green Glaze tile. Have you learned if that tile is still available, if repairs need to be done on that roof in the future? I specifically used their website to identify the names of everything. Yeah. It was still there. Yeah, great. It might be a little bit different, but it's all still pretty much there. Would you also say that that roof is a such a character defining element that it should be retained at all cost, for instance. Is there anything on the home that really should be retained, maybe not at all cost, but almost all cost, should there be damage or, and I think maybe you know what I'm getting at. We had an application a couple months ago and I just I feel like it needs to be stated very strongly. What is really important to retain when designating a home, designating a structure and that and that we all agree that it's really important to to say that in the original application for designation. So that's where I'm getting at. And if there's nothing in there that states that really strongly, I'd love for something to be added. And that green roof is, in my opinion, a very highly character defining element. So I did not list them all out because this was a pretty extensive primary character defining historic features list that was in the staff report. But when staff goes to review any sort of replacement or COA for the property in the future, we will lean heavily on this list. Frankly, hopefully fingers crossed that roof will last years from now and you won't have to worry about a replacement but if a replacement roof is sought, staff would not approve anything other than the green tile roof which the color being an important feature of this roof at this time without sending it to the commission. So if someone, a future owner came in so they wanted to try it and read, then that would come to the commission. Staff would not do that. And then it would be up to the commission as to whether you wanted to approve or deny that. And then again, with the green color being identified as a character defining feature, that would be a strong argument against the barrel like that. The barrel's high, yes. Well, it is actually, I think it's the S tile. Is it an S tile? It is an S tile on there currently, yes. Thank you. I just wanted to say thank you for the efforts and for bringing your home before our commission. So thank you. This is a very exciting application. It's always nice to see the landmarks that come to the commission, especially just to echo what commissioner Magnello said, being so close to a flood zone, it's really nice to see that this home is going to be hopefully made at landmark status. So thank you for making the application and thank you, preserve the Berg for your help in this as well. Okay, all right. I have a quick question for the owners and the agent as well. I just want to make sure and put it out there that you guys have not been coerced by a real estate professional that you should get the house added to historic designation for property value and resale purposes, correct? Have you been advised by a real estate professional that you should have the house added to a historic designation for resale and marketability value? Quick, do you mind coming up to the podium? Sorry, just to answer the question. Just so that way we can record any answers. No, you're fine. Thank you. Only because this has come up in the past. That's why I'm asking this question. Your question is whether or not a realtor has asked has suggested that we do correct No, not at all. This is entirely okay good This is we just we own to house in Maryland and had it put on the national register So the opportunity to do it here with our another second old house that we own is just just really important and valued to us and our family Absolutely, okay. Thank you Okay, Anyone else? OK. At this time, do we have a motion? I would make a motion that we recommend approval of the request to designate the William E. And Margaret H. Emory House located at 1947. Each drive south east is a local landmark thereby referring the application to City Council for first and second reading and public hearing. All second. Iris, can we have a vote? Yes. Mara Bay? Yes. Magnolo? Yes. Roscoe? Yes. Marbe. Yes. Magnello. Roscoe. Yes. Davis. Yes. Jeffrey. Nelson. Yes. And Drake. Yes. Not motion passes unanimously. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Heather. Do I announce for an agenda item if like a member of the commission has a conflict? Is this the first time that's happened or does it just kind of happen? Naturally, I'll have to point it out. Well, usually we read the number, the case number out and then the commissioner announces that they have a conflict. But since he's already sat, then you can say that a commissioner Jeffrey has a conflict due to location Okay, and then that's when then I ask iris to be okay Prior to reading agenda item three I just wanted to announce that commissioner de Fris does have a conflict of interest so he is stepped away Iris can you please read number three into the record? And that is city file number 25-902-002-4 and 25-902-002-5 and for COA number 25-902-002-4 It is a review of a certificate of appropriateness application for the demolition of a detached accessory building at 2045 Burlington Avenue, North, which are being property in a local historic district. Then there is COA number 25-902-00025, a review of a certificate of appropriateness application for the construction of a one-story garage at 2045 Burlington Avenue North, a contributing property and a local historic district. The owner is Patricia L. Gaylor and the agent is Mike Ketteringham of Cast construction and again that's 2045 Burlington Avenue North. The planner in this case or I'm sorry Derek Kilmoren will be presenting the item. All right good afternoon thank you Derek Kilmoren manager for City's Urban Planning Historic Preservation Division. Kelly Perkins did work on this case and prepared the presentation for you. Unfortunately, she wasn't feeling well this morning and so we sent her home and I am subbing in on her presentation for you. But as you heard from Ms. Wynn, there are two COAs that are under consideration here and just kind of a general point of information when we are dealing with accessory structures in local historic districts We bring to you the demolition application and the new construction application at the same time as part of the same public hearing When we are dealing with a principal structure We bring to you the demolition request first and then the new construction application would be brought to you the following month so that there is a explicit focus on the details of the demolition request first but for accessory buildings It's it's not at the same level of as important says the principal building and so that's why you have both of them here today The property we are looking at is 2045 Burlington Avenue North. It is located in the southeast Kenwood local historic district. There are two structures on the site, including the single family residence at the front of the property, and then the single story detached garage at the rear. Both are identified as contributing resources to the local historic district. As you heard in the introduction, there are two COAs requested here, first for the demolition and then for the new construction. The building permit card for the property indicates that the residents was moved to this location from 2509 Queen Street South in 1935. The property card does not indicate whether the garage was moved with the house, but there was a permit to renovate the garage building in 1945. The 1951 sandborne map, which is shown on the slide, indicates the garage building is a dwelling unit, but the structure is currently depicted as an unfinished garage building in the Penells County Property Appraisers Office website. The main house and structure is a craftsman style bungalow. The garage is more framed vernacular. However, the open eaves with exposed raptor tails are trademarked for the craftsman style. These images are showing you the current condition of the accessory building. The applicant has provided a document from an engineer containing an assessment of the current accessory building. The document did not speak to the engineer's experience in structural rehabilitation, but the document does state that the building is not structurally sound and the materials that were submitted did not include an estimated cost to rehabilitate the property. These additional images were provided with the application to show deterioration of the garage building. And then we move into the second application which is new construction. The second application proposes construction of a one-story garage building measuring approximately 352 square feet. It will be smaller than the current garage building on site. Propose the elevations for the garage building include a simple front gable design. The applicant has confirmed that it will be 12 feet 8 inches tall. For summary of findings in the staff analysis, first relating to COA 24, the demolition. There are general criteria for the granting of a COA, and then there are additional guidelines for demolition. These are explained in more detail on the staff report, and typically depend on detailed information being submitted in terms of the engineering evaluation and estimates related to repair and renovation. So lacking some of that information, Ms. Perkins and her analysis did make these determinations and is recommending denial of the demolition. However, if you are proceeding with approving the demolition, these would be the recommended conditions of approval, essentially tying the demolition to your action on the new construction piece. Related to the second CO8, CO8 2590225, this is the new construction. In this particular case, the analysis shows it meets most of the criteria for approval. And so staff is recommending approval on the proposed design that was included with the application set. With that recommendation of approval for the new construction piece, you have these, what are typical standard conditions of approval, the recessed window, and then the door references, and then the conditions relating to inspection are all typically standard. So that concludes our initial staff presentation. We can pull up any slides if you would like for additional reference. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Does the applicant have any presentation? And if you could just state your name and address for the record. My name is Caitlin Grunemberger with CAS Construction and Repl replacement of Mike Ketterington, who is the agent. Obviously with the denial, the new building is going in place of the demo, and our client actually just told us about further roof damage that's kind of happening because of the deterioration of the existing garage. So it's in pretty bad shape, and obviously our engineer and letter kind of happening because of the deterioration of the existing garage. So it's in pretty bad shape and obviously our engineered letter kind of goes towards that as well and we are planning on making sure that the new build will mimic the historic details. So that's all for now and I'm here for any questions, Steve. Okay. Great. Thank you. I did not receive any public comments for this. So now we are going to move into cross examination. Does city staff have any cross examination for the applicant? I know cross and we'll have no clothes either. Okay. And does the applicant have any cross examination? All right, the applicant waves. Does the applicant have any closing remarks? Okay, the applicant waves. We're going to move now into executive session. Okay, good off. This is the first time I've seen it to you is it actually is in the ADU. So this is impressive to see that it's going back in the existing condition. So kudos to the team putting it together. And it does a great job mimicking the existing. I was going to ask about the detailed engineering report, but after seeing the photos, that's enough. So yeah, I'll be approving both demo and new build. I think for me, this isn't the first time I've felt kind of manacled in my decision making process by the fact that the construction company has not provided at least the secondary rehabilitation estimate. There's nothing to compare what you've provided to against anything in that respect. And that's something that came up in the staff report too. It's a little bit of deja vu, because sitting on the commission, I feel like this happens quite frequently with this historic neighborhood. We have a lot of people coming into the commission asking to have substantial restoration worked on to their house and or repairs or construction done new construction. And each time I look up the property appraiser report and their house was purchased, you know, well after the time that this was made an historic district. So I fear that sometimes we're slipping into a pattern of just a bit of comfortability with allowing certain things to happen. So if it is at all possible for Cask to create that secondary estimate on rehabilitation, that would be nice to have. I hear you and we can do that for future ones. You know, that's the first time I think I've heard of it. I'm sure maybe someone from our team has kind of talked about that. I know with how much labor costs are and the extensive damage that does there. You're taking essentially bringing it down to the bare bones anyways. And so for a labor and time schedule, you're essentially doing a new construction as well as you're probably exceeding it with the labor costs and whatnot. So, but I hear you. Yeah, that and that is totally understandable, but to have the comparison for from my perspective and making any kind of decision would be beneficial. No, thank you. Unfortunately, we can't take any comments because we're in executive session right now. I'm sorry. I was happy to see that the rafter tales were going to be replicated in the new garage, new construction, new construction. And some of the other details, so that's very important. Really quick, there was a portion in the staff report that talks about, I think I'm on the right one. Let me just make sure that I'm not reading from the, yeah. Yeah, so there is a portion of the staff recommendation that talked about at the owner's expense requiring the recording of the property for archival purposes. is that something that would be a condition of approval if the demolition went through? So, in previous demolitions, we haven't necessarily required a formal survey. I don't know if the application included any sort of like elevations of the existing, but staff has required photos before we've approved like photos, clear photos of each elevation in all the details before we've approved the actual demolition of a property. So that might be a way to creatively document the property and stuff to the commission if they want actual like measured drawings of the elevations, but that could potentially be a condition of approval it has been on previous applications for demolition. It sounds like there are, according to the staff report, a lot of different examples of this type of structure within the neighborhood. So would this be like a very unique example where we would want to request something like that and who would do that? Typically it's on the applicant. The last time I did this it was was for a single story, pyramid roof, accessory to car, accessory structure that was original to the site. It was on Burlington, NAV, and we asked the applicant to provide clear digital photos outside of PDF form that we could manipulate and see the details on. And there was some back and forth even before, because that was the condition of the approval before we would even approve the demolition on the property. So we had something to kind of like, just keep that on record as to what was previously there. I don't know that this one is necessarily a high-style, super elaborate example that we might need drawings for, but maybe at least clear photos of each elevation and some details would be nice to document the structure. And that's stored in what repository? We keep it in our files here. Okay. That seems simple enough a simple condition. Yes. Care if I may. So there was an ask to make a public comment from the audience and I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. was coming from the property owner so it may have been in response to one of the questions from the commissioners. Okay. We can maybe invite that person up to respond to that if she was still inclined to respond. I would love to invite you up to make a comment. Yes, of course. Hello, everybody. I've owned the building now for 25 years. I was the, think, the second person on the block to actually live in the house. In a house on the block, it was a mess 25 years ago, as maybe a lot of you might know. I have saved up money over the years. I've learned, my parents taught me how to have the Protestant work ethic and you got to save up your money before you spend it. I can afford now to fix up the garage and get rid of this mess that's out there. It's an eye-solar. It's Falling Apart. And when Milton and Helene came through this last year, nothing was really destroyed, but all of the shingles are coming off of the roof. I've had to repair the roof now. This storm that came through the other day has got another hole coming in this roof. I don't know how anybody could have ever lived in the back there or would want to be an IDU, the kitchen bathroom, and whatever it was. It was in a little spot, maybe. And then the garage, if you wanted to go out and sleep, you had to go outside and go on another side door and go in where I keep my car. They had about eight inches worth of carpeting on the floor. And that's was, I guess, maybe a sleeping room. But it's not good for an ADU. You can't do anything with it. It's falling apart. And it's leaning now since Milton. And every day I'm going to go outside, there's more stuff laying on the ground from the roof. I don't see how it can ever be replaced. I may not be replaced. I don't know what else to tell you. Do you have any questions? No? Thank you. Good. OK. Thank you. I have a question. OK. OK. You that has two certificate of appropriatenesses, and we are perhaps looking at adding different conditions. I'm not sure. How do we, or how do I introduce this as a motion? Do I introduce this motion for both or just for the first one? How does that typically go? Typically when there are two separate applications, the one ending in 24 for the demolition and the one ending in 25 for the new construction. So we would ask that those would be separate votes and they do have a little bit different conditions of approval. So if a member wanted to add or amend a condition of approval they would make a motion to add a or amend a condition for the particular COA number and then that would be voted on and then we would vote on that with the amended conditions and then move on to the next, the new construction the same way if there was a condition of for the new construction then we would amend that and then take a vote on the whole. Okay. Sorry, I've only done this a couple times. Iris, would you mind putting up just while we're voting if that's okay if we can just review the staff findings for the certificate of a purpose ending in 24. Okay. Okay. So here's where you wanna add a fourth one about just photos for the existing condition. I think that would be appropriate. And I don't know, it doesn't sound well actually. The existing structure is a little bit more rectangular and the new ones a little bit more square. Is it possible to get elevations as built dry and done from your contractor and add that to the file? I mean, that's something I think we should. If we're making changes like this in a historic district, that's the least we should be asking for. Mm-hmm. All right, the road can't you? Go let her speak and then I'll. Yeah, thank you. The building, as it is, is very long and narrow. My proposal is to make it smaller so that I have a smaller footprint. We are building at one foot back further from the alley and because of my age we're going to put in a wider garage door so I can get it and out a little bit easier. I think that's, I'm in a tier three storm water area, as far as that goes. And I would really like to pay a little bit less on my water bill every month, as we all do. And a smaller, more compact building would do just fine for me. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. The staff position would be that photographs at this time would be probably the most appropriate request, given that it's an accessory structure. And we haven't had a larger discussion about as-built drawings being submitted as part of a demolition. It is something that we did want to bring to the joint meeting discussion in August. What exactly should be submitted when there is a demolition that is potentially approved at minimum is it photographs or is it something more like a set of as-build drawings because they do come at additional expense? So for where we are in how it's been applied in the past today, we would recommend photographs Knowing that we'll have this discussion in a couple months Thank you. Thank you Could we yeah if we could pull up perfect. So having that up there, I'm going to ask if there is a motion. I will make a motion to approve the demolition of the existing detached garage at 2045 Burlington Avenue North. Subject to the three conditions identified in the staff report and adding condition number four, I think we can do this all at the same time. Or do you want to do it? Yeah, okay. And adding condition number four, which mandates that a photographic documentation be taken and recorded with the of the existing structure. A second. Iris, can we have a vote? Yes. Marbe. Yes. Magnello. Yes. Brasco. Yes. Davis. Yes. Nelson. Yes. Drake. Yes. Wanamaker. Yes. Not motion passage unanimously. And if we could pull up, yes, number five. Okay. I will make a second motion to approve the certificate of appropriateness to approve the construction of a new garage building at 2045 Burlington Avenue subject to the five conditions shown in the staff report. A second. Okay. I ask you to vote. Marbe. Yes. Magnello. Yes. Prasco. Yes. Davis. Yes. Nelson. Yes. Drake. Yes. Want to make her. Yes. Not motion passes unanimously. Congratulations. You're going to have a much nicer backyard also. A lot more space. Yeah. Congratulations. OK. Now we can move into agenda item number four. Iris, would you mind reading that item into the record? Yes. This is city file number 25-902-003038. The request is a review of a certificate of appropriateness application for window replacement at 3211, 8th Avenue North, a contributing property in a local historic district. The owner is Elizabeth Keifer and the agent is Kayla Rochelle with Reese Builders Windows Inc. That address again 3211, 8th Avenue North and the staff planner is Cindy Cohannock. Good afternoon again. So this project is a COA review for 3211 eighth Ave North. No public comments were received for this project. The property is located in the Northwest Kenwood Local Historic District and is listed as contributing to both the local and national register historic districts. The Craftsman style bungalow and two car garage were moved to this site around 1932. Front porch was enclosed in 1935. Miami awning windows were present on the right side of the front porch in the Florida Master Site File Survey image from 1995. These windows have since been removed and the porch screened in. The COA requested for window replacement for 19 windows on the main building. All the windows proposed for replacement be appeared to be historic or original except for windows numbers 6 and 19. Staff updated the site plan on this slide to correct for some inaccuracies in the indicated window locations. And window number 6 is not interior to the rear enclosed porch. Here's a sampling of some of the original historic windows that are proposed for replacement. They're all one over one. This slide shows windows six and 19, which are not historic original windows. The submitted site plan indicates again that the window number six is interior to the rear and closed porch, but the submitted photos and the application support that this window is actually located on the left side elevation on the first floor near the rear. And window number 19 is in the front facing dormer. The proposed replacements are Regency Plus series 5305 vinyl impact double hung sash windows with full screens. The proposed window configuration is 1 over 1 to match the existing. Replacements will be size for size in the existing openings, existing trim and mulls to be retained or replaced to match. The proposal states that the windows will be installed from the ear interior up to the blind stops for the existing windows and will be set back 2 inches. It's unclear if the 2 inches can be achieved since there is additional projecting vinyl framing in front of what appears to be the flange and the images shown here. And the images provided the styles appear to be aligned vertically, but the top styles appear to be wider than those on the bottom sash. In the images provided, however, this could just be due to the angle and perspective of the images here. In summary, the staff evaluation yields that most of the relevant criteria for the granting of a certificate appropriateness has been met. Half the relevant criteria for the guidelines for alterations have been met. And most of the relevant criteria were met for the guidelines for window replacement. Thus, staff recommends approval with conditions of the COA for replacement windows at 3211, 8th, Av North. Conditions include all the standard conditions of approval as well as the window recess requirement which is the two inches to the top sash, including the trim measurement. The staff is here for any questions and the applicant and owner are also here. All right, thank you. Does the applicant have a presentation today? Hey there. Good afternoon, councilmembers. My name is Elizabeth Keifer and I have lived in the historic Kenwood neighborhood since 2016 before the historic designation. I am here today to share the challenges that I faced in trying to replace the original now-routing and leaking 100-year-old windows in my home. This has been an ongoing issue since November, and it's been anything but straightforward. Initially asking my rep if he was familiar with working with his sort designations, he assured me that he had. And he showed me the same windows and addresses of homeowners just weeks and months prior. I selected a window that is both window-resistant and came with protective metal covers, safe, durable, matching what is existing and significantly more affordable. Then the Hurricane Impact Windows I was ultimately forced to consider after historic preservation association denied my request. I want to be clear. I care very deeply about preserving the beauty and character of our neighborhood, but I also care about safety, practicality, and fairness. The window I chose was far more within my financial means. The mandated impact windows are a tremendous financial stretch. And while I'm hoping insurance relief of which I'm currently paying $8,000 a year, hoping it may eventually help me absorb the cost. I worry about many other residents who don't have that option, who might be kicked out due to a way a certain window might look, who are on fixed incomes, have been there in their homes for a very long time. St. Petersburg often promotes itself as a city that supports affordable housing. But I ask, where's the conversation about affordable maintenance? You made a comment about renovating the prior person's garage. I have a neighbor who renovated the same windows. Last year, and has now put his house up to sale, had a contract on it, but the people coming into buy it cannot secure a mortgage, and the insurance is far more than what they could afford by preserving and restoring these windows. My question is historic designation should not become a financial trap. What good is affordable housing if those living in it cannot afford to maintain it safely and responsibly? When our neighborhood was first placed under historic designations, we were told it was to protect us from mansions, not to restrict basic upkeep or drive up the costs with bureaucratic hurdles. What began as a preservation effort now feels like a regulatory overreach and I am not alone in this feeling this way. Many of my neighbors have expressed frustration in a sense of helplessness. As they too want to preserve and maintain, they care about their neighborhood yet seem to be caught in a red tape. I have written to the mayor, the governor, and to you here at City Council because I believe this isn't just about windows. It's about a future of livability in our historic neighborhoods. Preservation should not come at the cost of safety, affordability, and common sense. In regards to your comp, I address that one. And these windows were gonna be costing me 33,000 and I'll them up to 49, just to keep that in perspective. But I would like to thank you for your time, for your effort. I appreciate everything that you do here and the way that you scrutinize and you pay good attention to everything. But I'm just asking you to consider the impact that these decisions have on real people trying to care for their homes and their community. Thank you. Thank you. Now we are entered into the public hearing comment or public hearing section. I do not receive any green comments. Does anyone in the audience wish to speak on this item? Okay, seeing none, we're going to move into cross examination. Does city staff have any cross for the applicant? I don't have any cross, no. Okay, does the applicant have any cross examination for city staff? Right. The applicant waves. Does city staff have any closing remarks? So I would like to mention that the application has never been denied. Um, are my conversation with the contractors were that, uh, it would be difficult for staff to support a non-impact window with basically permanent tracks for metal, basically not temporary metal hurricane shutters. A lot of the reason why this is taken so long is because it's been a struggle for staff to get the required information and documentation that the commission is used to seeing to support the historic window replacement. There are some other windows that were replaced for non-historic windows in the local district that the contractor was using for comparison. It's not an apples for apples situation. That was a house that had already had replacement windows on it. These are historic windows which come to the commission so that other application did not come to the commission because it already had replacement windows. I have a couple comments as well. First it's important to remind the commission that staff is recommending approval in this case for the request that you are considering. To give you a little context, back in 2015, there was a substantial update to the city's historic and archeological preservation overlay. And at that time, there was a lot of detailed discussion among this commission and the City Council. And specifically about window replacement. So historic preservation best practice is to repair historic windows, not replace them. That created some angst because we do live in a vulnerable community being in Florida susceptible to many hurricanes. So there was a discussion about window replacement and specifically about allowing vinyl window replacements. Now, vinyl window replacements is not something that has typically approved nationwide as a best practice for local historic districts. But again, recognizing our vulnerability here, the city council at that time in 2015 requested that a window replacement allowance be explicitly stated in our ordinance and so it was added in a way that you don't typically or traditionally see in other local historic districts around the country so we already have an insert that allows window replacement. Now, the justification among the council for doing it at that time were two things. One, to improve energy efficiency. And second, more importantly, to create more protection against storm impact. And so when you look at the window of replacement criteria there, it says that the replacement window for a historic window must explicitly have a particular energy rating and be impact resistant. And if it doesn't meet those two criteria, then you should fall back to the traditional best practice which is to repair the windows that you have. So that is why that language is in there. It comes from extensive discussion in 2015. There was flexibility written into the code that isn't traditionally granted for window replacements and it is because of our vulnerability here related to Hurricane and storm impact. When the Kenwood districts were created Our staff specifically did not go out and Say that this was protection against MacManchins in Kenwood. Now that may have been messaging that was being shared among the residents. It was not a message that was coming from city's historic preservation staff. We did do information meetings at that time. And those information meetings prior to the balloting explicitly described the the COA process and what would be expected if the local historic district was approved and we explained the process going forward. What is the COA? How does that work? Staff did not describe that ever as a protection against McMansions. But I did want to describe to you the history of the window replacements because it does come up often and a requirement that they have impact-resistant glass as part of our review extends from the allowance that was created by City Council in 2015. Thank you. Thank you. That was the end of closing remarks correct? Nope. The applicant gets to go. Okay. Applicant? Great. Thank you. Thank you. And again, I totally appreciate the historic thing. And I think the breakdown and what you were saying, everybody's gotten so comfortable. We had block captains. And we were told, yeah, this will be, you know, so somebody can't paint their house neon purple. This will be, so I think it was really easily given to us. I voted for it. And it seems over and over again, many people are trying to do these things to their house as they're doing it and they apply and it just seems to be kicked it back. So I think that's great. But we weren't afforded that. We were just, we had our block captains and we signed everything. So I understand what you're saying, the comtrability. But I think that's the breakdown of communication that we're all going, we feel like our hands are tied, especially those of us that live there prior to this happening. So I just want to say that. So thank you. Thank you. So now we are going to move into executive session. Anybody like to start? Yeah, I have a question. I mean, I guess just going back into history just for my own knowledge. But so you said that the price of the wind has went up. And again, you know, it's I don't recommend for approval today, but I just want to understand. So is that because you went to full impact? It wasn't one of the the metal coverings didn't want to be there or the track They that wasn't going to be in keeping with what the historic designation one You're talking about the hurricane shutter. Mm-hmm. What about the ones the cloth ones don't we can't aren't those an option? Yeah, that's not acceptable however plywood that can stay on year-round acceptable. As we saw in the last, but less, less presentation. Just saying it's not that pretty. Just for my reminder, so the cloth is not allowed in the historic, you know, it's just, it's just a little dav davits around the window and it's never been brought up in this case. That is something staff. Yeah, I'm just saying in general. Yeah, it is in general. It is actually approval. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that could have been an option. Because then you didn't have to admit the. The same. If you do want to, yeah, okay, yeah. All right, I was just curious. All right. I think that yeah, I think his, yeah. Yeah, our metal shutters actually had the same hardware as well as the canvas shutters, and we were never preceded that up. BAM! Yeah. All right. I was just curious. All right. I think that yeah, I think his, yeah. Yeah. Our metal shutters actually had the same hardware as well as the canvas shutters and we were never preceded that opportunity. We were told that it would be more likely to be declined if we proceeded with the shutter hardware on the non-impact windows. And that's why Miss Kiefer finally made the decision to switch impacts that we can proceed with this process in the hopes of getting her windows replaced, not repaired. So obviously they could have been repaired, we could have put shutters on them, but even still that hardware was coming into question as well. Okay, so. Thank you. And I kind of just want to say at least my house will be preserved. The house might fall down around it, but the windows will be there. Thank you. Sure. That's all I have. I'm sorry we're in executive session right now. And I think just to kind of reiterate what I said before, I think that's why it's really important to maybe get all of the information, not from our vantage point and trying to make decisions, but for your own edification, there might be an opportunity, I was looking at some of the pictures of the windows to repair those windows in kind and then get some of the mesh screens that would be not as cost prohibitive. So again, it's always nice to get moving and get feedback and get an estimate. But for me, particularly, I'll just speak for myself. It's nice when someone can come up and say, this is one estimate and this is the other. And it will give us the opportunity to make a more informed decision. And then also for you to have a more informed decision. Well I had my informed decision because my neighbor keeps having contracts fall through on his home because he renovated his windows. So people coming in to get mortgages because they aren't there and insurance is so high to renovate. So it's kind of like this little space. So I understand what you're saying, but I had my information. Thank you. Yeah. So we're, yeah. So this executive session, yeah, is just for comments amongst the board unless you are directing a comment. I wasn't. OK. It was just in general. Okay. I have a question for the applicant and perhaps the rep. Iris, would you mind pulling up the agenda item that shows the conditions? Have you guys seen this before? Okay. If you wouldn't mind quickly just stepping up just so it can be on the record really really quick So you said you have you have seen these before and this is work that's doable that you guys do agree that you can do Oh, yes Absolutely, and that's what part of installing from the inside and hitting those blind stops comes into play. Right. We can stop the protrusion on the exterior of the home. Great. Okay. Just wondering about that. And the way we've measured so far, we do not protrude across the exterior of the home. Okay. We're right. I mean, we're hairline, but we're right there. We're in line with it. So. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. I think I have a question too, because I know insurance has come up a few times. And sometimes just replacing the windows of course it's not going to qualify for that credit to get your homeowners insurance down. I know sometimes they look at the doors too and I see the door here. It looks like it might be an older door that's on impact. So I just wanted to ask if this is approved could we see a future application for the door or are you okay leaving it as it is? Are you speaking of the front door? It's it's impact. It's yeah I bought the house with it and it had been installed like a year or two prior. It's heavy due to yeah. And the one on the side as well. No, not the one in the back. But no, I haven't. I'll add it to the list. It's curious. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else have any discussion before we make a motion? Does everyone feel like we're all in agreement about the conditions that we're set forward with that? Any edits or anything? Okay. Do we have a motion for this agenda item? I'd like to recommend that the Planning and Preservation Commission approve with conditions, the application for window replacement at 3211-8th Avenue North, a contributing property in the local historic district with the following conditions is outlined in the staff report. The second and that third you third. Okay, so the second was by commissioner. I second. I guess we have to if I may. Yes. I want to make sure I understand the contractor correctly. I think what she was saying is these might actually be flush mount and that the first condition is that these actually be set two inches back as measured from the trim. So I want to be clear that we're all talking about the same thing. I believe that yeah we were clear about our conditions. I. I think we're sure you've got to buy the trim of the window. So it's, well, I mean, you've got to be sure you've passed the framing of the window, but the trim of the window. The trim of the window is typically only an inch, so you're not looking at a full two inch recess, which is what staff has pointed out in the staff report. and if it's up to the commission if they're comfortable with that. I think the conditions are the conditions and if they're not met then the COA won't be closed out and the permits won't be closed out. That is the condition currently says two inch. So that's what is being approved. Well, could I just ask for clarification? What I heard you say was that you're flush matting on the inside. You're installing from the inside. Would you mind, yeah, stepping up really quick. Thank you. We're installing from the inside to go up to the blind stop so that the window does not protrude outside. So our window, because of the impact window and the build of the window does not protrude outside. So our window, because of the impact window and the build of the window is going to be thicker than your historic window. I mean, it's a vinyl window. So that's why we're typically our installation would go from the outside of a block home or a home that's not historical. But in order to meet the criteria of the historical we're installing from the insides, hitting those blind stops, which would prevent the window from protruding from the exterior trim of the home. So it would be more, it wouldn't protrude past that frame. So understanding what you're saying, though, the conditions as we're setting them do state two inches. Two inches of what? At least two inches of setback? Yes. I mean Again, the windows beveled so the frame itself is going to be two inches back But there's still a bevel on that window that will protrude to be flushed out with the trim So if you pull the picture of the window up you can actually see how the front of the window is beveled So well, I guess this isn't a great depiction of that. There's another one with the dash coming out. There's another photo. Yeah, so that's the back side of the window, you can kind of see it a little bit. Yeah, on the right side there, how the frame in essence, it almost is beveled. It has a... Would you, I know this is so annoying. Would you mind stepping over towards them? I am so sorry. I know that's really annoying. We just want to make sure everything's caught. So it does have a quarter of an inch, half a finish bevel, which would include the screen that's been set in that level by putting the windows in from the inside and hitting the existing blind stops that are already there would prevent us from turning from the exterior at all. So the frame itself is going to be set back, but it's a step. Maybe two inches? No, I don't know. It doesn't come out. Oh, yes. You can see a little bit on the left side. I have a little bit there. Okay. So this might be the one that's in the application. It's not in the presentation, but this is one that is in the application. This shows the flange is here. So this is what's going to stop at the blind stop, and then you've've got this projecting out in front of that. Yeah, and that's not church, it's not dead. So with the screen itself, you might be looking at an inch. That's why we're in song from the inside to hit the blind stops because then you won't, you, the window can't go any further. Okay. It's forced to stay where it is, and we would leave the existing term there, we're not replacing any term unless it's absolutely rotten away, and we replace the light and trend. We're just setting it in from the inside and securing it from the inside, so it does not mature. Okay. So let's pull up those conditions again, because basically what happens is if we vote on these conditions, that is... Can I go and install one window and take pictures of that one window and present that to you? I mean, I don't want to go and put eight, nine windows in this house and it'd be too hot. I mean, that's just. I have. All right. Let's. I have a question. Knock. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Is there a different style of window that would allow for a two-inch recess? Not an impact. Yeah. The frame itself is an impact frame. Yeah, in the raw, I mean, vinyl windows nowadays are just larger framed windows than wood back then. Thank you. So in the past, I think that's why we seeing these windows actually protrude in passing here. Correct. Drywall line or stuckle line depending on the year of the house. So that has been a condition with others. Staff has done not this particular staff member but has done final inspections and had had the windows have had to been packed out on the inside so that they could be recessed even farther in. So you add more trim essentially on the inside or framing to pack that out. Okay, can I ask a question? So are you saying specifically that you cannot meet condition one or you can? No, we can, but what I'm saying is with flirting so close to that line, I'm hesitant to want to go put 19 windows in turn around home you guys to come out and do that inspection for it to that fail and now we put 19 windows in as someone is home and we have to figure out how to then move that back another inch. Okay. The frame of itself, you know, it doesn't have a half inch bevel to it. So when you hit those blind stops, you're getting, I mean we're flirting close. I'm not exaggerating. I mean, we're worth right there, but it is flush to the trim of the home. So, so I've done a ton of these projects. We have used the impact windows. We have been able to meet the setbacks. I think it's a good point that you make. Let's get one window in and just make sure. Yeah, that's an install. I don't want to make this more difficult or any more stressful for the home. Let's get one in, come just make sure. Yeah, that's. I don't want to make this more difficult or any more stressful for the home. Let's get one in. Come out, take a look at it, make sure we're all on the same page that looks okay. And then we can proceed with putting the other 18. Okay, or draw a wall section, you know, window section. Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything from the standpoint that we're at now that we need to amend in the existing. Okay, that's just more so what you guys are gonna do on They'll help you out after we're done with this process. Thank you Can can we pause for just one second while we're wrapping this up and then you can talk to city staff afterwards. Thank you. Okay. Let's start again, because we did not end up voting on it. Do we need to reintroduce the motion? There's still a motion in a second. There was just further discussion based on the motion. So if you're ready, chair, you call for a role call at any time. Okay. Let's take a vote. More bag. Yes. Magnello. Yes. Brasco. Yes. Avis. Yes. Jeffrey. Yes. Nelson. Yes. Drake. Yes. And that motion passes unanimously. Okay. So now at this point you go talk to City staff and it'll help you with everything you need to do from there on. Yep. Okay. I think if everyone's okay, I think let's go into agenda item number five. I know we still have the presentation, but then I think after agenda item number five, maybe we'll take a break. I just wanted to put that out there for everyone to know. So Iris, would you mind reading agenda item number five into the record and actually really quick. I think that the applicant potentially has not yet been sworn in. Should I do that? Should we do that now before agenda item gets read in or what's easiest? That's probably fine to do now if he's going to speak. Does, are you the applicant for this? Okay. Are you going to be making a presentation today or speaking? No. Okay. Okay. Because if you do want to speak, we do have to swear you in. Yeah, we'll do that. All right. Well, let's swear you in right now if you'd like to speak. Okay. All right. If you're right, you're right. If you swear or both are in, I would say that you're the only one who can make it. Thank you. Okay. Iris, would you mind reading agenda item number five into the record? This is city file number 25-902-0046. The request is a review of a certificate of appropriateness application for window replacement at 2740. Third Avenue North, a contributing property in a local historic district. The agent is Michael Cummings listed as a contractor that addressed again is 2740. Third Avenue North, the staff contact in this case is Kelly Perkins. However, Derek Kilborn will be presenting on her behalf. Great. There we go. Thank you. Ms. Wynne just told you again. I'm presenting for Ms. Perkins today. As you heard in the introduction, this application is actually very similar to the one that you you just work through. So I'll be a little more brief in the presentation and details here. Just quickly, the property is located in the Southwest Central Kenwood Historic District. The subject property was built in 1925 and is a craftsman style bungalow. The COA application proposes to replace seven historic windows. The proposed replacements are one over one vinyl single hung windows in the existing openings. The trim is proposed to be retained or if needed replaced to match and the new window frames will be recessed to match the historic windows setback. This window schedule here shows you the location of the seven windows that are identified for replacement, including their photographs and labels. And then our summary of findings are just summarized here. They are explained in more detail within the staff report. Overall, they do meet most of the criteria and staff is recommending approval. Subject to the following conditions, which again are standard conditions of approval for our office. Thank you. Great, thank you. Do you have a presentation? No. If you would like to, if you have a comment, yep. Okay, so just state your name and address for the record, please. Hi, I'm Pedro Medina. My address of work as a contractor is 3215 Bennett Street North. I was just approaching this from a situation we had in Tampa. We had a customer. And we did just like you guys decided on where you did one window and see if you approved it. There is a lot of modification involved of kind of cladding the vinyl windows. And they finally approved it. and we made it match. However, none of that is really comes up in the permitting process. You know, you either prove the window as is or not. And, you know, we can meet the setback but there's other things that we had done to the window like covering certain parts of it with wood. So when you look at it, you don't even see the vinyl. And I don't know, that's kind of specific situations that I don't know if you get talk about, but maybe that's something worth discussing in future historic projects. Just a word of just my thoughts, but I thought we might have to do something like this for this project, you know, to cover all the vinyl. If that's desired, we can do that. We were successful before, but as I was surprised to hear you guys talk about that you actually, you actually do approve vinyl windows. I didn't think this was going to get approved, so I was just like, oh, but after you said that, I feel a lot better. So we can, you know, help meet in the middle more by covering it with wood it's zired but I think that requires a lot more in depth and actually coming out to the site. Do you guys do that sort of thing? Okay because it's not an inspection it's like a historic inspection so it's like under a different department but you still do that. Okay all right that's the only thoughts I had thank you., thank you. Now we are entering into the public hearing. I did not receive any green cards and seeing no one in the audience that will most likely have any comments about this. We're going to move on to cross examination. Does the city have any cross examination? Okay. Does the applicant have any cross examination for the city? All right, the applicant waves are moving into closing remarks. Does the city have any closing remarks? Okay. All right. So now we're going to enter into executive session. And I'll just make a comment about all of these window these projects. And I think this last hurricane season was a bit of a wake up call for all of us, especially the residents of a lot of these older homes. I mean, people were scared. People were afraid of debris coming through their single-plane glass. I can't imagine how many of those old windows leaked. And we are seeing, and we're going to see, a lot more of these window replacements, people want to have windows on their old homes that are going to protect them in the event of storms. And we need to be understanding an empathetic when they want to do double-pain glass with vinyl and just accept that we're going to start seeing these more and more. So it's very hard to repair single, to get the impact protection on a single- glass repairing the gistening wood and then having the stress and the struggle of having to put up you know whether it's fabric panels or plywood panels or corrugated metal panels I mean that's a lot extra work so I just wanted to make that comment. So okay. I could add to that. And certainly not disagreeing at all with setting windows back in plain because that is a very specific look that we want to try to maintain as much as possible. But when you're talking about these old wood frame buildings that only have a four inch window wall depth to begin with, it's a feel good thing when we start saying, well, let's add additional trim to the inside and whatever. That window then becomes vulnerable of caving in because it's not anchored properly to the building. So I think we need to think through very clearly that type of setup so that we're not creating a false hope that that window is gonna survive or a cane. And again, it's, as Commissioner Mwamyaker said, this is just something we're gonna see more and more of. And I would rather at the end of the day save the building by not having rainwater come in. I mean, I had a building that I panicked in getting all new windows put into it for that very reason that they were in the process of rotting out and they were replacement windows already. But had I not done that before last hurricane season, I probably would have lost the building or at least had such a significant damage It would have not made sense to repair it. So I think I think we have to think the big picture too And just to follow up that as well. I am totally sympathetic to the the citizens of St. Petersburg. I endured some damage myself, thankfully not from my windows. But I think, as stewards on this panel, we need to strike a balance. Your historic windows aren't necessarily going to leak, and in fact, I manage 20 plus historic buildings that have the fabric over the historic windows, and it is possible to make them weather tight. While I understand everyone is really afraid after this hurricane season, especially, I think that it's important to, as we did, do our due diligence in every single case. Again, we're having applicants come before us that have moved into these historic districts well after they've been established. They're aware when they move in that they're moving into an historic district. So again, while I am really sympathetic to everybody who went through this last hurricane season and has encountered damage in the past from any hurricane, any natural disaster, my daily experience in managing the historic property that I do really does show that it's possible to have these historic windows and protect them from inclement weather. I would like to add also I think that obviously we've heard some of this here today. There's going to be probably now we're seeing a lot of and will continue to see in the future significant overlap between requirements for historic preservation and conflicting requirements for reasonable homeless insurance. You know that's one of the things that's starting to come up where it's like yeah okay your roof isn't leaking but if you want to have a mortgage on your house you're required to have homeless insurance and the insurance companies or carriers are going to require it to be ex-year's old or not. So that is also going to go into effect with when somebody's purchasing a house, they're going to do four-point inspection so that they can obtain insurance and they're going to look at the roof, the windows, the doors, things of that nature. So we're going to start to have conflicting overlap here with historic designations and your average home under trying to buy a property or sell a property that then is not able to be financed or insured through reasonable conventional means. So I think we just have to be cognizant and sympathetic to that as well. I have just a quick thing, just very similar to what we did with the previous agenda item. When you have a minute, would you mind pulling that up just the conditions that we set forth for the application? Have you had a chance to review those items that were in our application that are conditions for approval? Yeah, would you mind stepping up to the podium? Yes, I was looking at it. Okay, great. If you want to take a minute just to make sure that these conditions three through three four and five are standard. They're always in there, but definitely take a look at one and two and let us know if those are not doable. How are you using the word light in that first one? One over one window light configuration. Thanks, City staff. Essentially it's the single pane over the single pane that moves. Right now we've got double hung so they're both moving this way. Single hung would just be moved the ones. But it's just if sometimes other designs have like six over one, which is like the mutton's where it's got grids, like a colonial grid. So she's just saying match the exact existing one over one. The bigger issue. Got it. Yeah, yeah, that's the case. Yes, I'm at that. When those were sounds, we talked about this number two earlier in the week. And everyone knows it's not yet. Great, okay. I'll talk about that. Wonderful. Thank you. Do we have any other comments as a group before I ask for a motion? Okay, do we have a motion at this time? I'd like to make the motion of the Community Planning and Preservation Commission approve with condition the certificate of appropriateness application for the replacement of windows at 2740, third Avenue North, a contributing property to local historic district with the conditions is outlined in the staff report. Second. Great. Iris, can we have roll call? Yes. Marve. Yes. Magnello. Yes. Brasco. Yes. Davis. Yes. Jeffrey. Yes. Nelson. Yes. And Drake. Yes. And that motion passes unanimously. Great. Thank you. So that ends the quasi-judicial section of the meeting, but I think this would be a great time for a five-minute break before we move into the presentation. If that's okay with everyone. Yes, please. Okay. I'll second that. Sounds good. All right. We'll see everyone about five minutes. Do I have to go with me then, right? Oh. Thank you. 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May is National Historic Preservation Month, so I thought it was important to give you just a general information presentation on a number of issues that really go beyond just the classic certificate of appropriateness or local landmark designation. So working in my role as manager for urban planning and historic preservation, I am also responsible for comprehensive long range planning and I work a lot on zoning and day-to-day land development regulations and I can see how historic preservation is complementary to what we are trying to do through the LDRs and just general planning initiatives. But sometimes I think those things get missed and the kind of hyper focus on COAs and The restrictions that sometimes come with landmark designation So I want to just take today to kind of go through some of the different incentives That are out there related to historic preservation and this is very casual So if you see something on a slide and you want to interrupt me and we can stop and just have a discussion about what we have up on the screen. The other thing I've tried to do is create a presentation for you that is interactive. So when Ms. Wind puts the presentation up on the screen as we're moving through, you will see there's a short URL here and there's also a QR code which basically takes you to the location where this presentation is saved and then there is a second document there on how to research the history of your home that is currently not on the website. So I put that in the folder as well so you can access that too. So this is a presentation that I know you've all been emailed now and you are free to share this with anybody who might benefit from the information. We share similar information and presentations like this one regularly, and so I would encourage you to do that as well if you encounter somebody who could benefit from the information here. So just very quickly, this is how our division is set up. So I manage the division. We have two historic preservationists, and this is contact information for anybody who might see this presentation today, or see it later and want to come in with additional questions or look for follow-up information. The other thing that we like to include, when we go out to speak to to organizations is a breakdown of just some of the terminology. So there's oftentimes a lot of confusion about what things mean. So just kind of sarcastically you will hear people say, well, it's historic and they want to say everything that's historic. I want want to be clear that that is not necessarily true. In the profession, historic simply means that a building or resource is 50 years in age or more. It does not indicate the value or importance of that resource and whether or not that resource would qualify for designation. It is simply an age descriptive. National Register of Historic Places does identify historic property significant on more of a national level. And it is important to be familiar with national register properties and resources because locally they do qualify for a advalorem tax exemption and they also qualify for federal rehabilitation tax credit, which we have additional information later on in the presentation on that, but it does not necessarily have to be a local landmark in order to qualify for those incentives. We also have the local landmark designation which we formally refer to as the St. Petersburg Register of Historic Places. And then you have, of course, kind of just terminology, contributing and non-contributing resources, certificates of appropriateness. And then because we're oftentimes introducing the Design Guidelines book, or we're describing the work of this commission we include that information too. Okay, we also like to show the residents how to empower themselves to look up information that relates to the history of their property. And so we will walk whoever we're presenting to through some website slides and how to access that information. So normally you would come into the city's website at stpeat.org forward slash history and then you would click into historic preservation and then we recommend that they start with the historic preservation map and And when you go to that map, this is where you can access different information layers. National register is separate from local. And we continue to refine the information layers to include additional helpful information. So for example, you'll see we have a layer for historic trolley lines. That is not a regulatory piece that is just some historic information we had that was adaptable to the GIS map system. Okay and then of course we have local historic districts and local historic districts and local landmarks do require certificates of appropriateness. So these are the most important parcels to be familiar with. And I mentioned that these presentation slides are interactive. So you'll see for example across the bottom interactive historic preservation map. The color rendering is a little different in the chamber here than what this was set. but if you click on that link it will take you to the interactive map. Okay so again I apologize here for some of the color rendering being off but the first group of information that we wanted to review were some of the regulatory incentives and aspects that we have in the city and then the second grouping will move through some some of the financial incentives and then finally we'll just close with some different random items that didn't necessarily fit into these two groupings. So starting with adaptive reuse of historic buildings, some of you may recognize this building. It's a former school owned property in the Euclid St. Paul neighborhood located right across the street from the Euclid Church of Christ that recently came through as an adaptive reuse proposal. So this particular school building was converted to 16 multifamily units and in the city's land development regulations we have an adaptive reuse chart that allows uses that are otherwise prohibited by a underlying zoning category. So the one that we most commonly see is a parcel that is single family zone residential, and somebody is proposing to convert a church or a school building that is also in that single family residential zoning to a multi-family proposal or project. I think that having worked with the adaptive reuse regulations and now processing several applications over the recent years, I think that we're probably at a point in time where we would like to revisit this table and perhaps expand the flexibility that is afforded through this adaptive reuse table in exchange for tightening up some of the other language that's in the adaptive reuse section related to rezoning. When we had a case recently come through, there was an option for adaptive reuse with what we describe as major change or major reuse. And because of that, it was including a companion rezoning. legislatively it's a little difficult to enforce that through the adaptive reuse section so we think that that's something we'd like to clean up and in exchange for removing that option expanding some of the flexibility through this table here. The land development regulations also include a for it floor area ratio exemption in the downtown center zoning districts. So it's very difficult in the downtown center to encourage preservation of historic buildings because the value of redevelopment is so high. And one of the things in tools that we use downtown to encourage preservation is to completely exempt the floor area for any landmark building to say that that floor area would not count against your calculations. So what we're trying to do, of course, is encourage designs that maybe wrap the historic building in a way that it is preserved and doesn't take any development entitlement away from the property owner. We also have building and fire code exceptions. We don't get a lot of questions about this and sometimes we have to bring this up in permit review meetings as an option for an applicant to consider. But there are exceptions to certain building and fire code requirements. If you are a historic building that is contributing or listed in the National Register and or local. And so we do try to bring this up from time to time as maybe a way to preserve the historic integrity of a building by granting an exception to a building code requirement that might significantly alter the building otherwise. Another thing that has come up since our storm season this past fall is that historic buildings, the register and local can be exempted from the 49% rule. So if you have one of these structures that have been impacted, it does allow for improvements to the building that are historically correct but does not trigger full compliance. And so this exemption to the 49% rule is really important. And we're going to try to ramp up our communication of this going forward into the upcoming storm season so that people are more familiar with it. OK, in the next grouping, we will start with advalorum Exemptions. There are a lot of home improvements that are made in the National Registered Districts that never come in and apply for an Advalorant Tax Exemption. So in summary, basically if you are doing a substantial improvement to your building through the up-me Tax Exemption you can capture the value that is derived from that improvement and have that rebated back to you through a 10 year appropriated period going forwards. This does not require local landmark designation so if you're in the historical northeast, around Lake Upptown, if you're in the larger Kenwood neighborhood, Rosa Park, these are large national register areas that do qualify for this incentive. We don't see many people taking advantage of it. If you're doing the project anyways and it's historically correct, you should definitely be filling out one of these forms because you're leaving this incentive on the table. So in the presentation as you work through this you'll see some different examples. There's also a federal historic rehabilitation tax credit. We don't see this often. There are several examples where it has been used. Most recently this commission worked on the Florida Peninsula Building, which is Forestry North and Gandy Boulevard. They went through a National Register listing. I believe local designation and also applied for the Federal Rehabilitation Tax Credit. So this is a more recent example of that being utilized. And then this is an older example when the hotel, Pennsylvania, was modified into courtyard by Marriott. They used the Federal Rehabilitation Tax Credit. And it's not necessarily constraining. You can see from this project that not only did they obtain the Federal Rehabilitation Tax Credit, but they also did a substantial addition at the back of the building. So preservation here had financial incentive that did not constrain the ability to do new construction. We do have a transfer of development rights program in the city for historic buildings that just simply allows you to convert unused airspace or development entitlement, convert that to a TDR credit, and then transfer that off site to another development that is looking for development bonuses. So this program has changed a lot over the years, and currently the way that it is working is you can convert the difference between the square footage of your existing building or buildings on site and the base floor area ratio that is itemized in the code. If a development in the downtown center, for example, is impacting a historic listed building. So for example, if there's a building that's contributing resource to the National Register District and the proposed development will demolish that National Register building, when they move into the bonus system, they are required to prioritize a historic preservation incentive and we see that most often used through the TDR program. So they're going out and buying TDRs. We do manage those TDRs through a registry table and this is just an example of what that table looks like. So if you receive this table and you see in the left margin, we have the original TDR credit and that top line is gonna be who created the credit and how many credits were created and then we've indented the sales underneath the parent. So as those credits flow through the projects, you can see the movement of some of those credits. And we can come back to any of these if you have questions. Okay. The city also established in 2019 a historic preservation and conservation grant program. I included it here to show you the potential of what we can do. This particular program is on what I'm calling a COVID hold for right now. So we went through the first cycle in 2019 and I'll show you the projects that were awarded then. In 2020 of course we had COVID in many of the city's grant programs were put on a temporary hold. We are redesigning this program right now and hope to reintroduce it this year. This was initially a $5 million allocation out of the downtown TIF. And the original plan was over a five year period to award up to $1 million per year for improvements in the TIF boundary. And so on this graphic area you'll see this is the downtown TIF boundary and the orange parcels are the ones that identify national register district parcels. One of the awardees, so this was originally designed as a matching grant up to $250,000. of the awardees, this was originally designed as a matching grant up to $250,000. One of the awardees was the Green Richmond Arcade. They received, you can see, a $47,800 grant award for doing HVAC improvements on the building. Some of the other examples are the State Theater who received 250,000. The Snell Arcade condo owners received a cumulative total of 148, the Florida Leon 250. And then the Detroit Hotel was the fifth awarding. They were awarded $110,000, but never followed through on the project that they applied for. So, you know, in this case here, there's effort by the city to provide resources to help the owners of these historic buildings make the necessary improvements. In this case, this $110,000 was left on the table and never claimed from the awardee. Through the State Division of Historic Resources, there are two annual grant opportunities. One is called a special category grant, which will provide up to $1 million, and then there are small matching grants, up to $50,000. So we have been successful in applying for several of these either through our division or through the city's facilities relating to, for example, Sunk and Gardens has been effective in receiving some of these awards. There are also other miscellaneous grants that people wouldn't normally think about our office for. American Express for example has two small business grants. One of them that just reopened for this 2025 cycle is the second bullet point backing historic small restaurants. So in this case we had received an email in our office from American Express that this opportunity was opening up. We forwarded this to the greenhouse and coordinated with our economic and workforce development team. They sent the information out. And we had a restaurant ask for additional assistance because they were interested in applying for the award. Our team then went ahead and did all the background historic research for them so that when they submitted they would have all that material to help strengthen their application. Unfortunately, the one that we helped last year did not receive the award but I did include it in the presentation because I think it's important to point out that if we're thinking creatively, these opportunities are out there and they are historic preservation related. Whether it's preserving the historic space that the business is located in, or it's preserving the business itself, in these cases, they would be what we describe as a legacy business, something that has been contributing to the community for decades. There's no consensus around what is a legacy business, but we've seen different references between 40 and 60 or 75 years in age. Down in the bottom here too, we've included several different funds, national fund for sacred places, national trust for historic preservation has a grant for preserving black churches. We've had several church properties that have come through this commission in the last few years that have qualified for these types of grants and so we're always trying to share information with applicants and helping them because sometimes the city is not a qualified applicant for these grants but property owner or nonprofit organization might be and so we're trying to provide support where we can and I think that this is an example of that so we have several cemeteries that I'm sure you've heard or read about in the last few years that are just west of Tropicana Field. These are three former cemeteries that were contracted for relocation. As part of the redevelopment of the Tropic it was important for us to do ground penetrating radar and confirm where the contracted grape sites relocated or not. And so we have gone through two phases of ground penetrating radar analysis confirming that the cemeteries have been relocated as contracted and we are continuing to work on that as we move through whatever the next phase may be for the tropical re-development at one point in this process future next steps were incorporated as part of the rain raised hinds development deal since that deal has now kind of dissolved in the month of March, we are re-assessing where we're at and we're taking back some of those pieces and evaluating what our next steps will be continuing the analysis. In talking about the grants, there is a grant that opportunity that was provided through the Florida Department of State for something called abandoned African-American Cemetery. One of the three cemeteries here was historically known as Evergreen and was a African-American Cemetery. The city did not qualify as a grant applicant for that particular grant offering. And so we reached out to the USF Anthropology Department under the direction of Antoinette Jackson. They operate what's called the Black Cemetery Network where they are collecting information related to Black Cemetery's. Her team was able to then apply for the grant because they were an academic institution. We provided some of the backup materials and they were awarded that grant for $50,000. And so her team has been doing additional research, the Evergreen Cemetery that used to be there. And just trying to pull together research about who may have been buried there and what were the histories of their families and life experiences in St. Petersburg. Okay, our current grant is a one that came through the National Park Service for underrepresented communities. What we had submitted for this particular grant was something called the Duce's Neighborhood Survey Update and National Registered Nomination Project. This grant was awarded to the city in December of 2024. However, the funds are on hold, I guess, pending some determinations at the federal level. But we were awarded this grant, and so our team is ready to proceed with this project if the funds are released. But specifically, what we're hoping to do with this project is update an older neighborhood survey for the Duce's neighborhood. And then if that area does qualify and has kind of a concentric set of properties that meet the national register criteria, submit for a national register designation. And that would not come with the certificate of appropriateness requirements, but it would qualify these properties for the different incentives that we were talking about earlier. So the ad volume and the federal rehabilitation tax credits. Okay, finally, there are different legislative actions that are happening to create a state level historic preservation incentive. This particular cycle, there wasn't anything particularly active related to a state incentive for the last several years in the 2023 and 2024 legislative cycles. There was an effort to pass a bill related to Florida main streets that would have created additional credits that would match like our local ad plorm or the federal rehabilitation tax credit program. Unfortunately those bills did not pass, but this is another example where we are working and trying to support where we can, these types of efforts. There are also many, many contributions that private organizations and individuals can make to historic preservation work. Most of you are familiar with keeping the vibe alive, which was an economic impact in housing affordability analysis that was led by Preserve the Berg and funded in part from the City of St. Petersburg. They unfortunately came out with the final report right about the same time that the raise hinds redevelopment negotiations were ongoing and that took up much of the attention in the local press but this is a very valuable report and has a lot of information if you haven't read it I encourage you to do that. I included this one it's from City of Tampa but again it shows the power of private organizations to advance this work because The cities can't always do that and the downtown Tampa downtown partnership had taken on the project of doing a Historic Survey and Analysis of the Franklin Street corridor and so they have a plan That they put out in February of 2023 and I linked to that to you just so you can see the types of things that could be done on the private side. Finally, I'll close with these three bits of information and resource tools. So most of you are obviously familiar with the design guidelines for historic properties. It's what we're using here to analyze our COAs. And so we will oftentimes show these slides in our presentations to just illustrate. There's so much information available already for you to make informed decisions about what are appropriate window configurations or door configurations for your style. But in addition to design, there's also just a lot of helpful information in the design guidelines relating to project planning and maintenance. So we have other information in there about how to maintain your historic building. You have probably heard me say in different presentations before. At the end of the day, the goal is to give people the tools to maintain and preserve their historic building, regardless of whether it's designated. And so our design guidelines attempt to do that and give you the tools that you need. I referenced a resident's guide to researching historic property. Some of you may remember working with Laura Duvacot on our team. She initially put this document together, and this is a great resource for just homeowners to understand how to research the history of your home. It is available in the folder that we linked with the presentation. Okay, one of the other things that we've talked about is a direct mail piece. And so what you have on the screen here are scans of the postcards that individuals are going to receive. You see right on the front of the postcard. You are the owner of a national register property or you are the owner of a local landmark property. And then when you flip to the backside of the postcard, there's not a lot of space, but it will give you enough description and then a QR code to click through, to get to an information booklet that is also been prepared to walk you through more of a summary of what is the historic preservation program with special emphasis on certificate of appropriateness process. So the example that we used in here was related to fences because we know we have issues with COA requirement for fences but not a permit requirement. So we really wanted to highlight that in the booklet but everything is really just to still down to just small kind of pieces so that if they're looking for more information they can go get it but this will definitely put them on notice you are classified this and here's what the COA requirement means. Quick question. Yes, of course. The properties that are both national and local, will they get both cards or how is the homeowner going to know which is more? Yeah. Good question. So that's something we have to answer yet because there is some overlap and if we're sending a postcard for both, then that's additional postage. So we're trying to figure out how to budget this correctly. Additional question on that. Is it going to be a one time bush or is this just going to be mail out to all these property owners every six months, quarterly, annually? It used to be a reminder. Yeah, so it used to be a trifle letter. And by switching, we've used postcard as a pilot on several recent very large scale zoning applications and it's worked very well. So by using the postcard, our intention is to do the initial mailout. And then the one thing we have to decide is how do we handle that going forward? So at the one year mark, we could potentially send out a whole new set of postcards, or we can through GIS also identify only the parcels where there have been ownership changes and just do target mailings to those address changes. And because we can do those GIS cross references, can we do that at six months versus a year since it's going to be a much more select mailing. So that's something we're going to have to figure out what are the numbers look like and what would the budget for something like that cost. But our intention is definitely to get back into some type of annual routine where notice is going out to owners as they come into the districts. Cool. And individual local landmarks too because they also have a COA requirement. This looks so clear. I really, really, really like it. You guys really did a great job. I appreciate you saying that it's taken more time than we anticipated, but we've been making some adjustments too. So we were getting close to ready in the fall and with the storm season and seeing a lot of the confusion about the 49% rule. We tried to rewrite some sections of the document to put that in there because it wasn't in there at all. We already had put in there a section that included a link to federal guidelines for flood adaptation of historic buildings. So there's a really great set of guidelines that already exist. And we had previously linked to it, but we didn't say anything about the 49% rule and its applicability. So we've tried to change this document to include that now. I just think that how you phrased it with the postcard simple statements and just like the language that I can see. And I want to look through the whole booklet, but I felt like the words that were used were digestible. They were easy and I felt like they didn't go over a property owner's head, you know, because I think some of this stuff people aren't totally grasping. So I think you guys did a really, really great job of making this digestible saying, you are the owner. You know, this is where it is and it's just thank you. It looks really, really good. I'm sure this was a lot of work, so I'm excited to read it, but so far, like just it seems digestible and I looked ahead obviously, but it's really useful. I think people are are going to be really, really grateful for this information that you guys did. Great, thank you. I will share those comments with our team and the marketing department as well. Yeah. That's a great transition to this document, which is also pending. We have the rules and regulations, rules and procedures for the CPPC and for the DRC. They're very similar. And so what we've tried to do is put together a public hearing document that is more visual and not just kind of legal bylaws type of language. So this is something else that we'll be coming out soon and this will be a public hearing booklet that kind of walks you through the process of going through a public hearing. So I just clipped some of the images here. What is the order of a presentation? That's a little more text-based, but we've tried to break it down a little bit. One of the pages will be a map of City Hall with where you can park. And what entrance do you go in at City Hall? You can see these pages here are trying to break down the podium for you. And also the picture in the center is how to use the clicker. And what is the visual perspective when you're standing at the podium and your timer's gonna be right over here. So we have that labeled in the picture as well. Because I think a lot of people come into this process and they're very intimidated and some of the aggression that we see in these cases, I don't think is the person's personality necessarily, I think we're just kind of seeing some of their fear and not knowing what to expect. So, that was kind of the inspiration for trying to do a booklet like this and just break it down visually so that hopefully they're more comfortable coming in and already know what they're stepping up to if they're speaking at the podium. That's really important because you know a lot I feel like we've seen a lot of people that it's probably their first time even going to a city meeting. This is super intimidating if you've never like walked into something like this during average homeowner like you know and you're working with city staff and you're just in an office in the face-to-face and you walk in here and it's like, am I on trial? Like, what's going on? So I think that maybe puts people in the defensive, they come in hot. It helps to make it more of a level playing field, I think. You've got folks, professional folks who have been here 50 times a year. And they know how to navigate the room here. But the poor neighborhood guy who's coming in for the first time, it's just overwhelming. Yeah, makes it welcoming. I think that providing this makes, I think it's really going to empower people coming in here. And I just, it's really, really great you guys did did this here because I would have never even thought to have included something like this and I, I think people hopefully read through it or at least even after the fact if they see it. They're like, oh wow, someone put a lot of time into this and thought about what it would be like coming from my perspective and I think that's a really, really great job that you guys did including that. Are you? I think it makes it a lot more user friendly and obviously accessible and transparent and kind of takes away the mystery of a lot of this. If you're not familiar with it so great job. Good. And we did set it up so that you'll see here it has references to the CPPC and DRC and then again as you move on to this We have references to both commissions because the idea is we want to create a document that we can use for both and What'll happen is when This when is sending out communications related to applications? We will include a link so that they can access this prior to the public hearing and of course our staff will be aware of it too So as we're dealing with individual applicants we can share that too. That's genius It actually was coming together Much better than expected and so we reached out to the City Council's office as well To in the City Clerk's office to let them know know hey we're working on this document for our two commissions is there something we're doing here that you might like to see added be thinking that it might be adaptable to other commissions and perhaps the City Clerk's office as well. So this doesn't necessarily relate to National Historic Preservation Month, but it does relate to the commission, so we wanted to include that in there. That kind of includes our presentation of information today. We do appreciate you listening, and I did have going back to some of the discussion from earlier today, there was a reference in the opening opening comments about upcoming joint meeting between this commission and the City Council and what the comprehensive plan says. The comprehensive plan does reference a joint meeting annually between this commission and the City Council. We did bring that to the joint meeting three years ago and identified the comprehensive plan policy, but the discussion between the commission members and the City Council at that time was that they felt they did not need to meet annually. And so they asked for us to come back with a joint meeting in three years. And so're at the three-year mark now and that's why we're coming back at this time. The opening comment was correct but it was decided by the commission and the council at their last joint session to wait three years before doing it again. Do you have a question about that meeting? Is that going to be open to the public as well or Or is that going to just be our commission with City Council? I just wasn't sure what the structure of that meeting was. It will not be public comments where people are coming up to a podium. This is a meeting between the commission and the City Council. But when you have that many commission and council members coming together, it is advertised as a public meeting. And so members of the public could attend if they were interested and it's I think right now we're scheduling or looking at scheduling it at the Sunken Gardens meeting room and that of course will be on August 28th. So we don't have any workshop plan for you after today. I know that was mentioned as well. That was not planned for today. But we have encouraged you to start thinking about if there are specific issues that you want to bring to that joint meeting. The sooner you can tell us about it, we can start to plan and do background research. So maybe what we can do is staff is start to identify as well. We already have a list of some things we think are important for discussion. We can share that with you too. So you can see maybe we've already touched on the things that you think are important. I would be great if we could have maybe if the meeting is in August, if maybe we could see that list June July that way. You know, we can see it in the brainstorm because like you know are off the top of my head I already have a couple things that I'd like to bring on there and that will give you guys time to add that um because I don't know if we're gonna present them with that list or how the discussion's gonna go but at least that gives us time to brainstorm and then provide that to you all as well. The other thing we can do is provide you, try and remember if we did this after the last month's discussion, we can provide you a copy of the information and the report that was prepared for that joint meeting three years ago. So there might be information in there that you find helpful. And you'll see how the agenda was set up and what that look like going into it Okay, so about a year ago I had submitted a plan for Furthering historic preservation in our city and I think that would be a useful document to look at too If we could maybe sum that out at the same time that would be helpful. I thought we, at the last meeting, we had talked about having a workshop to kind of get our thoughts together on this so that we have a joint presentation at the meeting with the council. Yeah, if maybe I don't know what the agenda items, obviously look like for July, but perhaps maybe that something that we could put in the schedule for that meeting that way. It's what happens in that last meeting right before August, so we're all, you know, it's fresh in our minds and we're prepared. I really like that idea, though, that way we can all kind of gather and brainstorm our thoughts and bring them together and kind of be on the same page going forward into that meeting. I'm just looking at the calendar. I guess the August meeting is also a couple weeks ahead. So yeah, the August meeting is on the 12th. maybe we do it that way. And then, right, maybe they, if you, if we all need more time or you need more time, we, So the August meeting is on the 12th. So maybe we do it that meeting. And then, right, maybe if you, if we all need more time, or you need more time, yeah. The August meeting is on the 12th and then the joint meeting is on the 28th. So could we maybe have your list of the items by July and then in the August meeting, we can have that workshop where we discuss it and then two weeks later we have that meeting and I think that'll keep us all super prepared. Sure. Yeah. Me and you. Great. Yeah. Good. Okay. I have one closing comments that I'd love to make. I'm sure you all have heard about the documentary film Raised and I don't know if any of you have had a chance to see it. I saw yesterday, it was put on by the St. Pete Downtown Partnership and the Chamber of Commerce and St. Pete EDC. It's excellent. It documents and tells the story of the raising of the gas plant neighborhood. Not necessarily to make way for urban renewal and then eventually tropical in a field, but it's excellent. They're going to continue to make the circuit trying to get that out for the public to see. At some point in the future they will get it out in the public domain, but they're also trying to pick up a distribution right so they have to be careful about how much they get out in the public right now, like on YouTube or somewhere. But if you have the opportunity to see it, to view it, see it. It's about an hour and ten minutes long and following it, they usually do a little discussion with the producer and the director and then they had a resident of the gas plant neighborhood there as well. It was excellent. Did you be on it? Sorry. I'm sorry. We're gonna go to... Well, it's... I got an email from the downtown partnership, the Chamber of Commerce and St. Pete. It might be that they're going to, it might go out, come back out again in a couple weeks or three weeks or four, I'm not sure. It was kind of a special showing and I think this might be maybe the third or fourth showing of... They had it at the St. Pete was the kickoff. Yeah six weeks ago. Very, very well attended. Yeah. Probably four, 500 people there. Yeah. And really, probably 80% of the audience were people that were either descendants or lived in the gas plant area. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yesterday it was more of the business community downtown and beyond. And yeah, it just was excellent. We, yeah. So if you have a chance, I'm not sure when it's going to be viewed next or again, but just maybe keep a lookout for that. So, oh, yeah. Yeah, there's a URL that's gasplantfilm.com and it has the screenings on it so it's the last screen probably was the one that you saw in April 20s. Oh no that one's not even on there. Oh yeah I saw it yesterday. Was it yeah yesterday I saw it. So it sounds really good. Yeah I I know the producer. So if I'll make sure he's got that website updated with any future screenings, I'll send him an email. Yeah, okay, that's it. One other update. So obviously we just had the legislative session. We were tracking probably over 20 bills, different bills that related to land use zoning, historic preservation. There are a couple that made it through. Most significant is probably updates to the Live Local Act. So some of these things are in different forms of the approval process. So we're just continuing to monitor everything. And then we'll be able to report back to this commission in another month or two about the final outcome from those different actions. But I mentioned the Live Local Act updates. There was another one related to the demolition of historic structures and the ability for municipalities to find unapproved demolitions of historic structures. And so that one honestly wasn't on my radar until very late in the process. And so like I said, we'll kind of collect the final actions and then we can do an information report item to you sometime in the next month or two. Do. Now I'm done. Okay, does any- information, report item to you sometime in the next month or two. Now I'm done. OK. Does anyone else have any updates or announcements they want to hear? So thank you. Yes. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. That was great. I'm really excited to see how the rollout of that implements the process going forward. Great job. Okay. All right. Me pull up my things. Sorry, guys. Okay. So there's no more updates or announcements. So thank you all. And we are adjourned. And then I do ask that one of my friends will be able to tell you that. Thank you. I'm going to do a little bit of the same. I'm going to do a little bit of the same. I'm going to do a little bit of the dough. I'm going to make a little bit of the dough. I'm going to make a little bit of the dough. I'm going to make a little bit of the dough. I'm going to put it on the top right corner. Thanks for watching!