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Please, Ronda Here Welcome, son Butler here Here here here Here Very good. Thank you So this next item we have on the agenda is called Financial Sustainability and the Towns Revenue Sources. Marianne and Russ for this one. Thank you. Let me just kind of do a quick tip on purpose. Again, this came up during our 2011 work plan discussion that occurred back in January. And, Mr. Mayor, I think you raised this and wanted to have a discussion about the relative balance of sales tax versus property tax and the relative sustainability of our current revenue sources. And, again, I think this is just a first shot in terms of responding to some of those questions. It was interesting, though, as Mary Ann showed me some of the information she collected and what she did was kind of first look at our existing funds. And we've shared with you a couple of just staff perspectives on the sustainability of our existing revenue sources, what's volatile, what's not. And also she looked at a number of other jurisdictions, both from a staffing level and the services they provide. And also the percentage of revenue sources, particularly property tax and sales tax, that come in a couple of examples from both non-resort and resort communities. So I'll just turn it over to Maryanne to go through a couple highlights of that with you and happy to have a discussion and answer any questions you have. And find out yeah there's any more information that we can try to pull together. I wasn't really sure where to start here. I mean, the obvious, very own thing, what to come a little closer, Hunter. Thank you. The obvious answer was, you know, that property tax is more reliable than our other sources of revenue sales taxes and real estate transfer taxes, lodging taxes. And so when I started, I started looking first through all the other cities and towns going through their websites, looking for their budgets and trying to find towns where they were more reliant on property taxes than sales taxes in the state of Colorado. And it's very, very difficult to find any most of the towns and cities in Colorado rely more heavily on the sales tax revenues that are generated than on property taxes. And I'll get to that page in a moment. On page three, I used the 2011 adopted budget because that was the one set of numbers that I knew was firm. We've been still working on the 2011 revised numbers in the 2012 proposed and we just went through those with the financial advisory board on Wednesday. If you take a look at page 3, the highlights, the property taxes of our total revenue sources is 19.6 percent of the total revenue sources, sales taxes, account for 25.6 percent, all other taxes taxes lodging real estate transfer tax and excise taxes accounts for 4.2 5.3 and 2.3. So in total all the taxes equal 57.1% of all of our all funds revenues 43 approximately, is from other sources, charges for services, intergovernmental, contributions, miscellaneous. I did take a look after we got through the financial advisory board and said, okay, how do these percentages change based on the 2012 proposed numbers? And I have the same chart here with 2012 numbers if you would like to see them but basically the biggest changes are property taxes instead of being 19% of the total revenue sources they dropped down to 17% and sales taxes increased to 27%. As well as real estate transfer tax, that increases by a percentage from 5.3 to 6.3. And that's just a virtue of higher sales taxes than what we had originally budgeted for 2011. And property tax is decreasing in 2012. And I think you saw that in another worksheet in here. So that's, do you have any questions on this page before I move forward? Yeah, I'll move forward. In terms of other revenue sources, could you be a little bit more explicit as to those sources such as charges for services? Right. Well, I'll start with other taxes. The majority of that number, the 690,000 is in franchise and occupation taxes. Intergovernmental is highway users, cigarette taxes, federal grant funding, RTA, RAPDA funding towards the bus runs. Licenses and permits is building permits, business licenses, liquor licenses, charges for services, like transportation parking, planning department fees, plan check, fees, solid waste fees, recreation and pool fees. Constributes, fines and forfeits, our police department revenues, moving violations, parking violations. Contributions, the majority of that is the ski call mitigation money that we received towards transportation. Also the Holy Cross enhancement funds are in there and 90,000 of the Cougar Canyon funds that are applied towards the general fund operations. Missilaneous, that's kind of the catch all, That's interesting come for the general fund. They also get the transmitter site fees, town hall rent that we charge group sales and marketing. The rent we receive for the employee housing down it, the operations facility. And then other financing sources is if we sell any vehicles that we don't replace or if there's any equipment within the town that they sell, they would go into there. Any other questions? Fred and then John. I don't want to get too detailed on this because I'm sure we'll do it during the budget process, but I really, I just don't understand the ski co-contribution. It sounds like it's pretty significant. And is that something that continues on forever? Does it stay the same amount? It's a formula based on the number of skier visits. It started off at a rate it was less than $1 per skier visit and it increases each year by 2% plus CPI. And that money goes where? And that money goes towards transportation. And that goes on forever. Yep. Yeah, there's not. That can be. There's not an ending's not. Yeah. That can be. There's not an ending in it. Until there's a change. I see what you want the agreement to go away. Yeah. OK. Thank you. Yeah. Any other questions on this page? John didn't have anything. Not yet. No. OK. Page four. Page four is where I was able to find silt, linser, and cherry hills village where their property tax, the amount of their property taxes exceeded the amount of sales taxes towards their general fund expenditures. Again, most of the towns and cities in Colorado, their ratio was more like the resort towns, whether they were resort town or not. It was pretty amazing to me how many cities and towns rely more heavily on sales taxes and property taxes in the state of Colorado. Oh, steamboat. And steamboat has. Steamboat's amazing. Yeah, no property taxes. Yeah, they're kind of unprecedented, state of Colorado. And steamboat has. Steamboat is amazing. Yeah, no property taxes. Yeah, they're kind of unprecedented, even within the resort community. And you know, these are estimates based on what I could find within their budget. You know, when you go in and you look at any city or town's budget, how they do it is always slightly different than the next town or city, depending on how they, if they have road and bridge, and what they apply to that fund, if they're into program budgeting, then everything gets scattered even more, which is why I didn't include city of Aspen, I had trouble following all of their funds. So these ones were simpler. Any questions on this? Just a quick question, Maryanne. When you were looking at sales tax, did you have a percentage for each one of the resort towns? The Vail was 3 and 4% of which 2.44% went to the general fund. And steamboat had 4.5% that all went to the general fund. And ours is 1% that goes to the general fund plus county share. And bail and steamboat I didn't see any share back from county sales taxes. For the non-resort, it was 3% for silt, 3.2% for a Windsor of which 1.8% went to the general fund. And Cherry Hills was 3.5% all general fund. Do you have a percentage break out of what that county shareback is, or how do we? It's a little bit more than let's see. Well, we're at 1.2% so it's about, yeah, a little less than double. Any questions on page four? Page five, I just wanted to be able to show you if there was discussion about decreasing the sales tax rate and backfilling it with property taxes, what the middle levy rate would be in order to achieve that same amount of property taxes. If you were to reduce the town sales tax to zero, you would need a 2.463 mill in order to receive the same amount of revenues, which is about 1.26 million dollars. And then below that, you could see that the impact on residential property on a per million dollars of market value would be almost $200 a year. Any questions on this chart? Does everybody understand what the going on there? And the current is the freshman name. Currently it's were at 1% and the base on the revised budget were expecting to receive 1.268. Another interesting observation that Mary Ann had when she looked at the page number 4 is we looked at the number of employees per capita. And again nothing surprising there but if you look at our community versus a silt winds or a cherry hills, the staffing is less. I mean so a resort community and this is kind of a rhetorical statement. We provide a higher level of service when it comes to cops, when it comes to providing transportation. Very unique to have a population of 2,000 with a transportation system. So typically, sales tax is help pay for those additional incremental services when you typically look at a resort community. But again, like Mary Ann said, we were still surprised at the percentage of sales tax coming from those non-resort communities. It looks like steamboats rate per capita is about half of ours, and you assume they serve a much larger population. So there's some scale, I guess, that goes along. And again, it could be how they shift employees between their different funds or between. So it could be that there's, yeah, that they're provided for in other areas. It's just hard to look at it, try to compare one against another without sitting down. I mean, it literally took hours and hours of web research just to get this little page. Big variable within resort communities and I honestly can't remember what the situation steamboat is. Particularly that transportation element which is so unique. You know is that a separate governmental entity or is it part of the governmental organization? Yeah, you got to do a lot of digging. Okay. I do have a question for you, Jan. Page four there. What do you include in the population number, the 2826? That came right off of the census. The latest census. So that would be full time year round employees or? Oh, full time. It's residents. Did you say residents? So there would be full-time year-round employees or- Oh, full-time- Residents. Did you say residents? Residents. Under your population, the population- The population is off of the census. So 28, 26 is what are year-round, it's not a voting population, but it's just a- It would be children- Your residents who filled out the census for the United States government. You know what might be an interesting statistic to come up with is in addition to the population, the amount of beds that the community serves in doing a ratio based on that amount. Because that would give you a better idea of what the efficiency is on the number of employees per capita. You say beds are dwelling units. I would say beds. I you say beds are dwelling units? I would say beds. I would say beds. I mean- That's a harder number to quantify per site. We got a pretty, we were just talking about it in the pre-meeting. We got a pretty good number for dwelling units. Well, maybe bedrooms per dwelling unit. Yeah, that would be hard to come up with. But we give you a better idea of how much we're, you know, what our service demand is for the community because you know, you look at this, you go, this is crazy, you know, 3000 people in smell mass, but yet we have to provide services for 15,000. Correct. but how they have stacks up with the other resort communities. And you know, that certainly would be an interesting, I don't know if it's worth the effort for Mary and to go through that, but I've been saying that might be. I mean, I don't know what that number would be, but it's what you would expect. I mean, we are staffed to deal with the volume of guests we have in the summer and the winter. And we staffed differently in our shoulder seasons but yeah our staffing is based on our visitation that comes to snowmage. Our guests again. Because that might bring it more in line with the number of employees per capita for the non-resort towns if you cyphered it out like that potentially. You might. Then what are you going to do with it? Well, no, it would show that we're on par with supporting a town comparable to non-resort towns. And if you factor in the amount of people we have to support during season, you know. But just an interesting thing. It just prepares us to assault or an eagle, you know, again, those communities just simply won't have transportation services. Just an interesting thing. It's just an interesting thing. It's just an interesting thing. It's just an interesting thing. It's just an interesting thing. It's just an interesting thing. It's just an interesting thing. It's just an interesting thing. It's just an interesting thing. It's just an interesting thing. It's just an interesting thing. It's just an interesting thing. It's just an interesting thing. It's just an interesting thing. It's just I think the result would be what you would expect at the end of it. But if you want us to look at it, we can. Just an observation. Okay. Page six just gives you the general fund breakout. On the very first page, for general fund revenues, you could see that I had 8,722, this adds up to 11 and that's because the transfers in are included in this pie chart. And you don't include them on the general fund because they're already accounted for in the funds that actually receive the revenues. So this just shows you the breakout. In 2012, the biggest number of changes just accounting for the grocery and the transportation property tax revenues that come in. But other than that, most of the percentages stay fairly close. Any questions here? Are those counted in the transfers or were the were? What? Those revenues? No. They will be when you see the 2012 pie chart during the budget hearings. Okay. You'll see I have them broken out with their own little pie. They have a special pie. They have this with their own pie. Yes. Okay. page seven. Page seven just shows you the total mill ready for town of Snowmass Village, 34.211 of which the town is 7.356. In base village, there's 83.713. Any questions on this page? Just pay attention to this, because this is one of the things that we get from, you know, people from time to time say, well, my taxes are so expensive. And I said, well, not as much of that goes to the town as you think. And so I think this is a good Observation for people to say oh, okay, so now I see how that breaks out because that does come up a bunch when people talk about their taxes Yeah, I mean for $1 million dollars Their property tax bill would be 2700 of which 585 comes to the town. Okay, now Marianne on the base village, the ID and Metro, that's only for the units that are in those districts. And those expenses, the income is only used in the district itself. Correct. Most of the, so it doesn't, to pay for the bonds. No, it doesn't get mixed with our funds to be. No. Okay. And then they have to pay on top of that, the 34.211 on above there, correct? And right. There's is like 49.5 is what we said we were going to keep their millevy at between the two districts, the metro in the GID And so if you add that to the 34.21 their total mill levy is 83.71 Any other questions on this You know, I think I'm a man, you know, we get questions from time and time and I asked Russ earlier today, so you probably don't have this. The open space and trails. Where are we with those numbers in Pitching County? How much of that number? Well, I took, Russ did give me a heads up today. And let me just go back to that total tax bill again of the 20, of the 2,700 of which the town gets 585 picking county gets $400 and about $57 of that. And theirs is broken out by the different funds that they have for the total for the total town using our 2010 assessed value. Which is for their collections in 2011. They would receive based on the 5.737 mills. Right. About $4 million from the town of Snowmass Village residents. Okay. And of that, their general fund gets about a million, open space gets about 2.3. You know how much is the total open space fund? It bills 3.351. Oh, the total? The total amount of revenues that they collect is 12.3 million. And so 2.3 comes from Stomach's village correct Okay Very good Okay, the next page just gives you a historical look at the property tax history Looking at the fluctuations of the assessed value knowing that looking at the fluctuations of the assessed value knowing that in two, you know, every, basically every other year is the re-assessment year, which occurred this, this past year in part of 2010. So you can see in 2012, based on the re-assessment, our assessed valuation is going down by 26%. This gives you a little snapshot into the 2012 budget, which the Financial Advisory Board has already seen. But the big thing here is the Road Mill levy fund. If you remember, we had dropped the, in 2009 for the 2010 budget, we had dropped down from five mills down to around four mills. We kept that the same last year. We're proposing to go back up to five mills. But even with that, if you go down towards the bottom, you can see that because of the decrease in assessed value, the road fund will still be collecting $243,000 less than they did last year. Okay. Okay. Now the debt service fund that is also going down by $336 because we pay off the rodeo bonds this year. So that'll decrease. So total property tax revenues that the town is going to receive in 2012 is projected to be about a half a million dollars less than what we collected in 2011. in 11. And so if you assume your property tax also went down or your value of your house also went down by about 26%. I know it's going to vary by pieces of property. Your tax bill will go down for the town, even with a slightly higher mill levy. Any questions on this page? higher Mill Levy. Any questions on this page? Okay, final page is page 9. This one, I think you guys, Jason. I was just going to ask one question on the town general fund. Mill Levy, you're proposing to bump that up by a couple points. Yeah, that increases. We have two formulas that we have to follow under the state constitution for table. And one is based on, you can increase your revenues from the previous year by the amount of CPI plus growth. But you can also raise it higher than, we've got our millevis set for the general fund at .768 so we'll never go higher than that without going back to the vote of the people. So this allowed us to increase our revenues. It's an additional $10,000 for the general fund, but it increases it by the growth which was, well the CPI was like 3.05% is what they're projecting at the state in their planning and budgeting departments. And then I think the growth was something like 0.18 or something very, very small. So this number is dictated by those two. Correct. Okay. So back to page 9. This, you know, we showed at one during one other budget hearing probably back in 2008, possibly 2007. Could you wait a second, ma'am, please just say aye. What, you can't hear us out? I couldn't hear. Why can't you just say, I'll open your ears, let the wax out. And so you just say I just kept going. So anyways, this kind of gives you a snapshot of our property taxes back then against other. Terry in my department had pulled out some of these places off of the voter registration where other people, second homeowners lived. And so that's what we use. That rust just thought it would be interesting to show it to you again. And also I think I should just point out that the salt and the salt in Picking county is a comparison. The town's mills are 34.211. The salt is on the picking county side at almost, they're at 58.85 mills. The salt on the Eagle County side is 61.58 mills. And blue lake in Eagle County is 57.975. Aspen is 26.708 but they have a much, much higher assessed value from which to kind of spread spread their mill of the over than we do. Okay. And that's all we have. So. Fred. And that's all we have. Fred. This is the page that got my attention more than anything else. I don't tell you why. Because I was a second homeowner for a long time. My house here was significantly smaller than my primary residence. It was worth significantly more than my primary residence. And my taxes here were significantly less. And this chart demonstrates that's probably true, damn, there are every second homeowner here. That's probably true. Damn, there are every second homeowner here. And the question I asked at the, just prior to the meeting, what percentage of property owners are second home owners and is roughly 70%. So if we decide to increase the billage for property taxes to try to stabilize our income, they're obviously the ones who are going to bear the greatest brunt. But if their thought process is like mine, I don't see whether it's going to be a great deal of objection to it because if their home here is worth at least as much or more than their home at home and they're paying through or four times as much taxes at home as they're paying here, you know, a small bump in the property tax that they will obviously bear the greatest burden for, shouldn't be a major problem. Now maybe we'll hear from the part-time homeowners board and they'll say it is, but just based on numbers, I don't see how it should be. And if we're looking for a stable source of revenue, it seems to me that raising the millivion on our property is the way to go. Now, I'll tell you what I wouldn't do. I wouldn't raise it on commercial property. I think they're having a tough enough time as it is and you know making theirs meet and I would be reluctant to do it on commercial property. But you don't have that option. Yeah, I don't think they don't have that. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, no. No, to your point, Fred, without the transportation mill levy, we would have continued to look at cuts for this year in the next five years. The impact on a property tax bill, again looking at a million dollars for 2011 was about $40 a year. And what I'm suggesting is that you don't replace or reduce sales tax and our property tax. You'll leave the sales tax where it is and you simply up the property tax. And as I say, I just think that the people who are going to be most affected by that will probably be, should be the most understanding. But Fred, there's also the other side of the equation where we do have a lot of, you know, full time your own residents who have been here and I've heard this from Mr. Griffin a number of times that we don't want to tax those people to where they can't afford to maintain their residents because they are in a fixed income. the additional 150, what other dollar gets to be. But it's something that we have a lot of the school teachers and the people who have been here for years that have blood sweat and tear. So it is a discussion that I think we do need to have and look at all around, not just because it's 70% second homeowners, because yes, maybe those folks could afford even a lot of those guys are trying to sell right now. John Wilkinson. Well, I actually think that these numbers are a bit misleading when you look at the Michigan Wayne Groseal number 20,000 for a million total tax paid. Well, there's four homes for sale above a million on Groseal. Meanwhile, in Snowmass Village, we have over 170 homes above 1 million. So yeah, if you look at it that way, but my point is, is that because we have a higher skewed value, you look at this number, I can guarantee you as you go up and value in Snowmass Village. There's a much more predominant payment on property taxes based on valuation than there is it on Grosio and Michigan. I mean, it's hard to get to that kind of value in that location. So you really can't look at that in equivocal terms. Yes, really. I can tell you, my taxes here are a bargain compared to Ann Arbor, Michigan. Oh, I did hear a bargain here. I can hear a bargain bargain compared to Ann Arbor, Michigan. I did hear it. They're a bargain here compared to Ann Arbor. So we want to try to maintain that, and I think you know, that's how we should market ourselves. Well, we're cheaper than Michigan. Now somebody, there's a little discussion that I think we do need to think about over time, and you know, in this next budgeting process process in the next five-year window, so we can give an idea, because we're always gonna have these up-to-downs and sales tax. And we're gonna have the up-to-downs for a while, I think, in the property tax valuations, until we can get a good settle number in there. So the idea here is, share us to give everybody a better understanding of where your dollars are. Go. Jason and Mark Wilson. Does the FAB or has the FAB contemplated this or do they typically talk about this kind of mix in there? Yeah, let me they did head on some of this. They don't have they didn't have the benefit since you asked for it. You got it first. But this is something that they do discuss and I won't put words in a couple of their mouths that are here tonight and they're happy to share their thoughts, I'm sure. But just our observation to kind of answer the question of, is this sustainable or not in terms of our current revenue source? First, I think it's good to have a diverse set of revenues, just like your own retirement funds. It's good to have diversity and your portfolio. Mary Ann already mentioned it was very beneficial to get the transportation pack approved. That 357 is preventing probably another very difficult discussion. And the other observation that this, I believe, is a direct recommendation from the FAB and it's an observation they've had is just as sales Texas volatile, real estate transfer tax is probably even more volatile. And we've seen that fund more than any other go up and down and when you begin to lean on it from an operational standpoint, paying salaries and paying operations, that becomes problematic. So that actually I believe is a recommendation coming out of the FAB that you'll be seeing when you review the budget is. That fund is the most volatile and can be careful from an operational standpoint. Does the FAB have anything to say today? At the microphone. At the microphone, if anything to say today? At the microphone. At the microphone, if you need Mr. Griffin, thank you. In a... Rick just fell over. In a non-resort community, sales tax can be an important point. My name is Rick Griffin. Are you on any boards in the town? Thank you, Mr. I am chairman of the financial advisory board which Who are you? Rick Griffin, I said. You need to get the wax out of yours, you. But I am chairman of the Financial Advisory Board. We advise the council on budgetary, on the budget and budgetary items throughout the year as a public appointed body with no power. I also worked on housing with the housing department and I'm president of all the single family homeowners in St. Mass Village among other things. That's a something of power but you have great persuasiveness. Yeah, only if they listen. You know, when you start comparing non-resort areas to resort areas, you have to start with the premise. The premise is this. The non-resort areas have a consistency in a population and a consistency in service needs. No service needs run from buses to police to street street to street street, but everything that goes on. In a resort area, our demands fluctuate according to the number of guests we have here. So, unlike a non-resort area, a sales tax is more of an equitable tax in a resort area because the people that are here spending their money are requiring the additional police, they're requiring the additional services from buses and other road services, the additional roads, the paving everything that goes on here. So therefore, you know, locals look at that as basically an equitable balance between what their pain, what the resort guests is paying and the services provided. And we provide first class services in Stomach Village. Don't get me wrong on any of this. However, it's going to come down to at some point whether those first class services are sustained at the detriment of one side or the other. If you ask a local my taxes have gone up 300% over the last 16 years. That's a substantial increase in property taxes. And although the county says I went down 26 or 30%, in reality, in the marketplace, I probably went down 40 to 45%. So you just have to start looking at a balance here. I pay more sales tax, and I've accepted that as a resident here. And I shop here as much as I can, except they don't have oversized clothes for gentlemen like me so I have to go someplace else. But anyway, I do try to shop locally. My attorney is telling me that anyway. The other side of it is that the break is that I hear about property taxes all over the country as well as a lot of locals that are not in my profession which is real estate. And those people, you know, drive about how high their property taxes are. It gives us that one light at the end of the tunnel that we hope is not the train that says we get a benefit. We also get a benefit for being here full time and putting up with the seasonality, the impacts, and everything else. So I think you have to take that kind of stuff into consideration as well when you go through this because just because a person has a home that's taxed less here, but it's worth more here than their second home. Doesn't mean that the local who lives here can't afford what we're doing. And we have to be careful because we're going to be a community of non-primary residential users with the exception of rich retirees. And when that happens, we're gonna lose the volunteers on all the committees we have in town in the county. We're gonna lose the participation, and we're gonna even be a more of a vacant facility during the two off-season. So I think when you look at this, this is a tough job you guys have, and we'd go through it in FAP. How do we create the flexibility in the budget and give the different departments what they need without driving the locals out? And I think that's really the crux of it. It's not a matter of whether 70% of the people pay less taxes here than they do at home As soon as that goes up don't sell the home here and they'll go back to their other place That's what seems to happen So anyway, since you asked thank you very much Okay Couple issues. I'd like to bring up in this discussion. First of all is the short term rental program that we've talked about over the last couple of years. The Colorado Association of Skeetowns is contracted with VR compliance to check in on compliance with the vacation rental program. I don't know where we stand in that, but I think that's a area of revenue that we need to seriously take a look at where we're getting a lot of sales tax leakage for the rental. The second family homes, is that the one from the post yesterday? There's an article in Demo Post about this particular program. Yeah, I mean, we're at Kim is in contact with them. It's still more at the pilot stage. Right. And until we're sure of what kind of returns the a couple of the other cities that have joined up, we haven't, we've decided to kind of take a standback approach and see what they are generating. The other thing is Kim is active. And she goes through the internet and papers and she just, she sends out emails and phone calls. I mean, she has a huge list and, you know, trying to locate a lot of them. But if they say we're not renting it and you know that you see it in there, other than going and knocking on their door and, you know, checking out the person that's actually living in there that's it's really difficult. I mean they may be trying to run it of course and marketing it but they're not getting any takers at the price point they're doing so I guess that's one of the big concerns that a lot of these resort communities have is how much is that that is being used. Yeah so. And the other the other thing is Kim is also following up to talk to some of the other resort towns that have joined in this class lawsuit against Experian and Orbits and all about not getting their fair share of the sales tax back from those companies. So we're trying to find out what resources that they find their information from, where did they get their estimates from and see if we can't track down that avenue as well. We're trying to be going. I think we're trying to be going. We're trying to be going into that. I think there's still some that are skeptical of whether this is a law firm simply looking for some business, wondering how effective would it be to pursue litigation. Yeah. Okay. John. The second question I have was again the contribution ski company gives the town a million to. It's roughly, it's a little bit less than a million to because there's out of the 1.2 in here. There's, let's see, 90,000 of it comes from Cougar Canyon. I'd say about another 90,000 of that to 100,000 comes from Holy Cross. So the balance would be probably more like around 1.1 million. Okay, well, the issue I have is that if ski companies lift ticket sales, The issue I have is that if ski companies lift ticket sales were subject to sales tax, like everything else is in this village. In time you sell ski, bike, clothes, food, is subject to our sales tax. Based on ticket sales last year, 750,000 approximately tickets in snow mass Village at every $70 particular, that's $52 million worth of sales in Snowmass Village. It is not getting any kind of sales tax off of that number. And based on a 10% sales tax, that would generate about $5.2 million in sales tax to the town. Well, I think I saw that the bail has a lift tax that's about 3.2 million. It's 4% tax on all their recreational admissions to the Vail Ski area. And that is all applied to the general fund. Is that the other component of that, whether it's Vail or another resort? We are somewhat unique, not by ourselves in that our town boundaries actually includes the ski area. For a service, and I've been in the middle of that fight, we'll typically fight tooth and nail, and usually it's the ski company that's also supporting that fight, not to have that included in the town boundary. So we are benefiting from the sales tax by this relative unique situation. But the tax, the lift tax, whether it's a veil and there's a number of other entities that do have it. It's a fight in terms of the partnership that exists. We have something that, in theory, is a win-win. So you'd want to be very thoughtful about how to proceed in that exists. We have something that in theory is a win-win. So you'd want to be very thoughtful about how to proceed in that area. But you should also understand what it's worth. Well, you know, maybe a win-win, but I think it's undervalued on the benefit back to the town. I mean, this key company in their guest get tremendous benefit from having us support all the infrastructure and services that the snowman's village provides, but yet pays a fraction of that actual cost what it would be. I mean, we could balance our state budget if there was a tax on lift tickets. You know, it may have to be a fee of some, since rather than a tax, I don't know, I think it would be some problem with table and some other legislation out there that friend is from doing that. But before we start going messing around with the increasing our sales tax or increasing our meal levies or property taxes, I'd like to at least explore what those possibilities are to take a look at that as a potential source of revenue. Which would not make me very popular with ski company, but it's not my job. No. And I'm not hearing the large clamor from the rest of council for, you know, doing that at this time, but I think it is something that's back in the back of, you know. Well, perhaps in the agreement that we have with ski co. Well, let me go back. If we have an agreement with the ski co which is my understanding we have such an agreement Do we have an inflation? laws within that relative to the changing nature of the lift tickets are only with skier visits it's CPI CPI plus 2% 2% is based on the ski ski but Is the other part of the formula anything to do on ski or visits? Price. Price? They're price? No, no. That's where I was going with that one. It's not a sales tax. So you have the ability then to raise your price as CPI stays flat? You could negotiate. That's changes in the agreement. That's reasonable to contemplate. I'll correct Maryanne. You could attempt to negotiate. I'm going to negotiate, yes. You know, the first question truly is, and you're going to be jumping into budget very soon. And what about discussion voluntarily? Is, you know, first do we see a gap? And I think from staff's perspective, this. Is, you know, first do we see a gap? And I think from staff's perspective, this 357, this transportation, there was a very real gap. That's filled it now. We need to remember that's only there for five years. And so is there something that you want to fund that's not getting funded? And that would be kind of the high level question you would want to answer before jumping down into the specifics of do you need a new revenue source. Just to go back to this ski company, do we have the right to impose the sale sex or is that a piece of state legislation that prohibits us? I defer to my laughter right here, but it's a new tax and you'd have to comply with table, which I would presume would require a vote of the people. Well, I think they're exempt because it's considered a transportation system. Like you don't pay taxes on raft when you get a bus ticket and they considered early on and the the letter. I mean, that's why I asked the question. I don't know whether we have the right to impose such attacks. No, but we have the right to impose fees. Yeah, we could. Okay. One of the things I happened to go immediately this weekend in the grand junction for Club 20, had heard a little state budget presentation this next year, the state's going to be cutting 700 million dollars out of their budget. And it looks like 50% of the state's budget currently goes towards education, higher ed and all that. When K through 12 was like about 40, I think they said 45 and then the whole nine yards just over 50%. But there was a report that just came out from University of Denver talking about financing, Colorado's future and analysis of fiscal sustainability of state government. Basically, the first paragraph states 12 years from now, Colorado will generate only enough sales tax income and other general purpose revenue, general purpose tax revenue, to pay for the three largest programs in the general fund. Public schools, health care, and prisons, there will be no tax revenue for public colleges, universities, and there may be for state court system, nothing for child protection services, nothing for youth correction, nothing for state crime labs, and nothing for other court services of state government. So I mean it's, when you go to some of these majors you hear what's going on and what other people are trying to do in the state to boost it up because of table and a few other things are having a very difficult time. So when you're in some of this knowledge I need you know, that we're going to be having to cover some things. Even though we don't get a whole lot of revenue out of the state. It's going to be one of those things where money's going to be getting tidal these next few years, and we have to be very cautious. We want to provide a great resort for, you know, our guests, so they keep coming back and keep enjoying it and keep spending money here. So we have to manage our money very wisely. And not overdo it either. And that's one of the things that I think certain people say could potentially happen. But yeah, read these reports and send these things off to anybody if they want those. But yeah, that was a good meeting this weekend and there are a number of things going on and junction to the club 20. Right now, let's take a minute and talk about our budget schedule, budgeting meetings. We've had talked about last week and before we left the meeting, we were understanding we were going to work on these budgets on 21st of this month, which is one next Wednesday. Since then, we've heard that there's some scheduling problems and one council member is not gonna make that date. Marion, what do you see is the timeframe required that the FAB went through and what, maybe we've sort've scheduled five hours, I get what, 10 to 3, sort of on the twelfth. And though Jason's leaving a few people aren't going to be around other days, how can we make this work this next week so Mary-Anne can get on with her process? The FAB reviewed the budget in three hours and then they used a half an hour to develop their recommendations to the town council. I would think that because there's nothing really substantial within the budget, you guys could probably knock it out in four hours. So the conversations have been possibly doing it Monday, staying kind of late. How does council, and I sort of said in my email back around, I'd rather keep the original date that we had scheduled. But understanding also that the things that come up, how does council wish to proceed? How much is on the agenda next week for council? Well, we've got the county commissioners. We've got the county commissioners. We have an item that I'd like to talk to you a little further. It's the open space discussion. And we don't have our planning director next Monday. And you know, I, that merits some further discussion in terms of what do you want to accomplish. I understand some of the specific issues, but there's, I think, as we jumped into it, we being John Chris Conrad and I, there's some very significant legal issues that you should understand kind of globally and broadly as you talk about zoning land. So, we would like to, just because of Chris's schedule, I'd really like him to be here. So we really have the county joint meeting. They have some items. Is it the end of the world? There's nothing that's terribly time sensitive and the items they have. The only thing I think that I heard was about this bridge that they need to get dealt with. Yeah. In a fairly short order that is one of the keys. I was just. Bridge on brush Creek on the trail. Jason, I was just going to have how long of a discussion do you anticipate with the commissioners at a couple hours? Probably. It's usually an hour or two. It's an hour or two. There are an hour and a half. Probably an hour and a half for Conrad at all? Well, that kind of discussion may need to be more of an executive session anyway. I'm thinking. Well, I'm talking about here on the 19th. He just physically isn't here. Yeah, right. No, just so I'm thinking we have that discussion. We probably want to have that during an executive session anyway, right? There's some specific legal issues you should be aware of. And they're globally. And I think what we'll recommend. If you wanted to tackle this issue, you should look at it broadly in terms of an open space planning process. Right. So right now I think how is Council with starting a little bit earlier on Monday? Mark, you said you couldn't- There's just no way. I'm lucky to get here at 4. Okay. And my problem is, and I say this in all seriousness, I take this budget process pretty seriously, and I want to be alert and oriented for it. And if I'm up here at 8, 9 o'clock at night, I'm not going to be alert and oriented. So that's why I'm delighted we're you can do it. I'm not sure if you can do it. I'm not sure if you can do it. I'm not sure if you can do it. I'm not sure if you can do it. I'm not sure if you can do it. I'm not sure if you can do it. I'm not sure if you can do it. I'm not sure if you can do it. I'm not sure if you can do it. I'm not sure if So, Mark, you wouldn't be here on Thursday. Is there any... Is there any chance any time this week? No, I'm book solid. Okay. And then, I guess Jason's out town from the 23rd to when Jason? I could go through the 3rd to October. Hmm. Which is getting back to why I sort of just do it on the 21st. the third of October. Which is getting back to why I sort of just do it on the 21st but we started it. First it could be a possibility if it's like three or four. Well we're back to what Fred was talking about. Three or four in the afternoon. IDG should be over by 33. or four in the afternoon, IDG should be over by. 33. Could we start a little earlier? I mean, we wouldn't have you for the first hour. On Thursday. Look, you know, we've had this schedule forever, so I'm just trying to accommodate something here. We haven't had this schedule forever. We've had a schedule at least. Well, we were talking about three weeks ago. We just, you know, we just set the date last week. No, we had really before we had set it. We finalized it last week. We said, OK, make sure everybody said it. So that's what you know, it's just been on the calendar. I think it if my calendar. On my calendar three weeks. I think we formally, it was formally asked you to stay. Right, last is still work, you know, we talked about before then, but this is, you know, we all said that time. So that's our dilemma right now, and I prefer, you know, like I said, I think we should like continue on. It sounds like, um, what if we took a stab at it Monday afternoon and worked, you know, for a couple of three hours Monday? Right. I'm just like Fred. You started seven on Monday morning seeing patients and by eight o'clock at night, I don't know about the Rosia. I start to go blu-ray. I don't know about you Fred John. It's nearly morning. What's always early I give it six. Well I know but. I go that midnight and I give it six so. Monday is just a row day. So let's um right now it sounds like our county commissioners and that portion is probably only a three hour meeting. But the, no, I mean, to right now we really would have this the county commission. Well, then if we start, then we go a couple hours and that's a agreement what time we're going to end. No, but they were not going to finish though. Well, if we could do that and then finish, you know, honestly, if, like Mary and said, the budget is fairly straightforward. Not doing a whole lot of, you know, there's not a lot of raises going through this thing. There's no raises. There's all just fairly flat stuff and reviewing the numbers. This year may be a fairly short budget meeting because we're doing CPI, the stuff today. We're going to talk about some of these. We don't even have a CIP, we have no capital projects. You're heavy lifting on CIP is today. Right. And even that, we don't have money to spend, we're just trying to prioritize stuff. We're bringing some happy meals for you guys. If we could, I'll do it if we agree with if we agree with your to the seven, wherever we are. No, I'm very serious. That's seven. That's seven. Where if you took a nap that day? No, we agree with your to the seven. You know, Jason, you're asking four people to accommodate you. I think we are. Ending a meeting at seven is unrealistic. We have meetings all the time. Okay, but by just saying, you're asking four people to accommodate you. Well, I'm asking for a date that works for all of us. Do we go to eight? Because eight seems to work. I like nine. I don't. I don't. Who's playing? I don't know. I know you are. Can we do eight? In fact, will you work to eight? And if we can provide some meal or work through a meal? It'll work late. You'll work late. I'll work late. You'll work late. Okay. How can we make it? If you'd like me to see if I can attend in 11. I don't know, I don't know. I'll do it please. Gracefully ask the county for a different date. Yes. This is very near future. And I think there is only one item. It's this bridge. Honestly, if we can get them in, very near future. And I think there is only one item. It's this bridge. Honestly, if we can get them in, and have that an hour discussion with them about this kind of stuff, because I think it is very important. And it was something that was closed, and for a reason, owner closed it. And the county's looking for some direction from us, even though we are not, basically the idea is that the county is looking for some direction from us even though we are not, you know, base for the idea is that, you know, the county wants to use the old railroad bridge type design down along Kutsubasa's property. And there was a discussion really with a different council that said, no way we wouldn't allow that in Bresch Creek Valley. And I think that that's, you know, it's going to save them a couple hundred thousand dollars if they use it. They can get done quicker, I believe. Hunt, do you have any? Well, that was actually, okay. Billy, that was actually in discussion on where the bridge is right by the entrance into snowmats. Right. And there was opposition to putting in that railroad-style bridge there. I don't know how that would impact it further down towards Highway 82, it's certainly outside of our- That's why I think it wouldn't be that long of discussion really. So it's an aesthetic issue. Yeah, right. That's correct. That decision was for a bridge, they wanted to put that old bridge much further up closer, like right even upfellowing from the hatch residence. Yeah, well yeah, when they put that bridge up, there it is up now. That's where the bridge was going to go. We put that grant. That's what the seated council at that point said, no. Visually, that's too close. Right. So it may not be the same discussion. And I just question whether we need to make that a joint discussion item between the County Commissioners and us, or whether that's just a presentation that we get from Open Space staff. And we have a- There was some, when I watched the county's meeting, there was some discussion about funding. They wanted to ask Nomass to help with something. Michael Ausley brought that up and it was like, we need to go to Stomach. So. The County manager was hoping it was simply a request for our aesthetic opinion. Yeah, I think if we can do the hour, and then we can from there work into our budget and knock out as much as we can at that point. Eight o'clock John and then. Well, the other thing I wanted to discuss with the county is that there was an article in the paper last week talking about employee housing and how they want to spend down some of the money and their employee housing fund. And one of the things they talked about was partnering with some other company or other communities and they talked about aspin and basalt and I don't see that they were wanting to discuss the partnering with Snowmass Village. So I'd like to add that to the agenda to see what opportunities are possible to partner with the county and their funds to build some additional housing in Snowmass Village. I probably want to talk about healthy. Yeah, the agenda I got was just a update on the Mountain Park Brush Creek Bike Path, which is the item we've been talking about, quick discussion about Ziggler. That's not critical. And maybe more of a development review and question. An economic update, just what are we planning? What are they thinking for sales tax? And then a little rar rar rar for the healthy community's fun. Okay, that's two hours. I'll tell you why we would do that. And then let's, that's two hours. And then from four to six and then from six to eight, we'll do good portion of the budget. And then let's continue on with people that can be here on Wednesday to finish the budget up. And I do think there is going to be some controversy, while the budget may be very straightforward. I think there's going to be some rather controversial issues surrounding the budget, especially with respect to the marketing committee. So I wouldn't- I don't want to shortchange that process at all, you're right. That's absolutely right. I would rather- I would rather limit the County Commissioner conversation to that one pressing issue and That's not the way to the work Yeah, we don't get them right back off I'm looking for a time slot which may not be this time slot where They just want to sit down I know how you're doing and what the issues are Well, I think we have a more pressing internal issues for right now. Maybe we push that to our first meeting in October. Sir. I guess I'm Martin Klang-Jason to have you miss the meeting on Wednesday. And let us finish up the budget meeting. How is rest of the council feel? Well, let me go back to the budget. Is there a way we could crack off? No, not crack. Let's not use it. Is there any department, departmental budget or funds that we want to discuss, make those maybe two out of five or what have you versus trying to do the overview and then rush through it. In other words, hit the most controversial one based on our discussion with FAB. Well, on any that maybe Jason wants to make sure he's a part of since he... Well, he wants to put it all of it. That's our main job, really. So I guess I would go back to the time limit. That's another option that we could stretch. Ending at 8 o'clock is pretty early in the morning. I'm pretty exhausted by 8 o'clock at night. I mean, what I would recommend on Monday would be the financial advisory board recommendations, the Russus overview in the general fund. Sounds reasonable. And then do all the other funds. I mean, we could start read if there's still time. If not, we could do all the other funds. I mean we could start red if there's still time if not we could do all the other funds on Wednesday Yeah, could we use to take this budget process for like a three-day field trip and We've cut that probably would be on the higher About what money we're gonna spend that's right when you have no significant resources and you have You're exactly I have Mr. Dresser so let's try to do that. That's right. We have significant resources and you have it's a little different. You're exactly right, Mr. Dresser. So let's try to do that. Let's do Monday and we'll try to either see if we can limit the county and our comments back and forth about housing or whatever. But we'll let them know. We'll let the county know that you have what you're going to begin the budget process that evening and to try and keep it short and tight. But we'll still do that and then we'll just carry on basically continue the meeting. We probably would notice it and just carry on on Wednesday. I know I'm not that said you'd already noticed it. So yeah, I think we're coming. Mr. Griffin. Does that mean that we should? Rick Rick. What time? 10. And who are you? I'm Rick Griffin. Sleepy and. Anyway does that mean that if we show up twice Dave and I get paid double already? Yeah. You're thinking of race. Double your current rate. Okay so do that work? Yes thank you. You guys work out the official announcement. We'll work out the logistics from there, and we're starting at 10 o'clock on Wednesday. And we'll get the budget packet out probably tomorrow. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, David and Rick. Actually, let me, it might be Wednesday. I just, I want to clarify a few things with the county. So we'll do one packet for you. Okay. It'll come out. I didn't think you'd be too upset with another day. There's a couple of things coming from the county. Now that we're gonna have that on. So that'll come on Wednesday. Very good. Okay. Packets probably Wednesday. All right. Moving on. She is moving. Go ahead. All right, moving on. We're going to move on to actually take a minute break and we'll start this two hour long process here in about 10 minutes. Item number three, continuation of the Capital Improvement Project discussion We give it two hours, a lot of it for this. Yay. Yay. Let me just remind you again where this came from and what the purpose is. Again, the capital improvement plan is really your plan for how do you manage your assets? Whether it's our buildings or managing the fixed amenities we have, or planning for the future and looking at other capital improvements that you may want to make in the community. A good question that was asked and is still a good question today is we certainly don't have a lot of resources for capital projects. So why is this important still at this time? Because again, it is a plan. It is an opportunity to look at things that you may want to fund and make some tough trade-offs on when you look at our budget. Just in this budget environment, they're tougher trade-offs because we have fewer resources. We may have resources for planning and taking initial steps on projects. For example, we still have $800,000 that we've budgeted for the Brush Creek Wood Road roundabout. That's a commitment that the town has to whomever the developer is. You may, for example, say, let's stop waiting for Mr. Developer. Let's finish the design on that project, so we're ready when the capital dollars are there to build it. We have unfunded liabilities such as the building we're sitting in. One of the observations that has come out of staff discussions, discussions with FAB is we have some new facilities and we haven't done what we've done Say with our housing resources Joe coffee as part of his budget does a capital Replacement budget we don't have that So is that important is that important to integrate into our budgeting? And finally you may have projects. We don't want to be presumptuous here. This is an old list. Some of these projects go back to the 1990s hunt. And you may have projects that you want us to begin to think about, put a budget together. And really, I think the fundamental question I'm going to turn this over to Hunt is out of this list of projects, is there anything new? First, you would want to add to it. And then what are the top priorities that come out that you would want us to give some additional thought to? That might mean creating a more specific budget, creating a schedule of next steps. There might be things that you would want to fund sooner versus later. And that would also, I think, be helpful if there's something that's burning that we got to do today as you look at the budget over the next month or so, you know, that you can begin to look at making those tough trade-offs. So I just want to kind of remind you kind of what this plan is, what it does, and some of the values in it. And it's value even in the environment of a limited budget environment that we're in. So with that, let me turn it over to Hon. Could I just ask a question before we start? I guess my concern is you're asking us to prioritize, and I suppose that's probably a good idea. That said, if something goes to fluid, it's low on the priority list. I mean, you've got, I know there was something about the berms or the tiny walls. You know, that's not very high on your school, but what if they fall down? I mean, doesn't that put this into a cocktail at that point? Yeah, and one thing that's not in here is the complete road fund budget. There are a couple of projects, there are several projects on those lists that are road fund eligible, but the road fund budget which you're actually going to be going, it looks like you're not going to hit it on Monday night, but you will hit it on Wednesday. There's a five year plan in there and we do have, in the beginning years, we do have money scheduled for a tie-wall replacement. For example, we spent about $300,000 last year. We've got $300,000 scheduled this year. I always put $800,000 for the Woodrow Brush Creek roundabout in there one year out in case it happens. But I haven't heard that it's going to happen in 2012. So I can do some Thai wall work in 2012. Now I have a budget for 2013. So I think for some of those things, we would just react with the road fund. fund and I have to and we've done it in the past we haven't paved any roads. I mean if something falls down I think there's Money in the road fund. We would rearrange and attack attack at that way What you see on these lists are pretty big projects that it would be tough. You don't want to plan for you to have to plan for Great. Thank you And I guess that's a philosophy that philosophy that some of the things we really should talk about, maybe at the front, are we into thinking about save and build? Are we into capital replacement programs? Because I think those are necessary items that the community and the town government should be planning for that we haven't budgeted. To do that, though, does mean we've got to cut something or bring in more avenues to do those kinds of things. So the philosophy there, I think, is a very important discussion about how this community gets forward through these tough economic times. Yeah, and I just wanted to point out, as Russ mentioned, obviously we're not flush on all the funds we deal with deal with general fund road fund or the real estate transfer tax But we actually had this kind of conversation with previous councils when we did have money They prioritize projects and then what we went up way and did is develop the schedule and actually funding or various funding sources and came back to the council with that To see to fund them and some of them we felt short so we had a couple bond issue they had bond issue for an addition we had actually two bond issues the recreation center and we also had a bond issue to cover the gym and the reason why I know Jason felt that it didn't make any sense to score this obviously the scoring that you guys did is not written in stone because you might have the highest projects the most expensive we are on money to do and that's probably what Jason was you might have the highest project to the most expensive we are on money to do it. That's probably what Jason was speaking to. On the other hand, if there were certain projects on there, I mean, I've got, as an example, your two highest projects of the four of you that did score was the last time project and the brush creek would road roundabout. Right behind that was the brush creek out creek roundabout. So for example, if you said to me or staff that that brush creek out creek roundabout was low on the list, staff wouldn't go away and try to figure out how to do it. On the other hand, if you felt it was an important enough project, I mean one thing that we can do with the road fund is bond it. We can actually bond the road fund and actually do that round about sooner and then pay off the bond over succeeding years. With the Stomachstinon project, I haven't really spent too much time maybe Gary Russ and Mary Ann have talked about out of fund. That's important. Then if you give us what your thoughts are and what's important and what isn't, then we can go away and see what are all the possible avenues as far as funding goes and maybe something pops out that's important enough to you guys that you go increase the property tax to do it. Maybe you don't. I think that's why it makes sense to actually come up with whether you do it today or not, whether you priority these projects and we can go away and see what ways we can come up with coming up with money to do some of these things. Marky? I have a question that's kind of an update request. Russ, I know we were going to engage a consultant for this, no, mastodon. These ability study has that been underway yet? Or where are we? The last task of the task force, it was creating basically the initial board for this 501C3. They did that just over a week and a half ago. And I believe the papers are being filed for the creation of that 501C3. Then obviously that group needs to get together but you know the baton kind of went to that 501-C3 the task force literally went out and celebrated and and some of those people will continue on with that 501-C3 and then as we acknowledge that 501-C3 hopefully we'll look at a of different sources for funding, but they may knock on your door at the end of the day. See, my thought is there's, as you bring up the priorities, first and foremost is the infrastructure to support all of us and everything in this town, in the form of transportation, et cetera. And those two roundabouts are infrastructure issues. And I have infrastructure as one of my top priorities in transportation. In terms of the mastodon project, I would hope that the consultant comes back. And my assumption will be the 501C3 will take leadership for the fundraising in the capital required to make that museum or whatever it is happen. And then the town may have some issues around infrastructure, whatever, wherever we're going to put the final structure. But so I put the Snowmastadon project, which was high on my prior already list into that other funding potential. I mean, the way you started this, I think, is very appropriate. You're starting at 30,000 feet and some broad criteria. And you can kind of look at this and you see some broad categories. Infrastructure would road, Alcreek. You see capital replacement replacement which could fall in under that, then you see some economic development type of actions. Right. And then there might be kind of another, you know, what I would call amenities, whether it's ice skating, visitor center. But I don't know. That's exactly where I was going with the categories. So infrastructure was extremely important. And I put transportation as a subsection underneath the infrastructure. The amenities I had, the ice rank. And that whole piece on the entryway. So amenities would be another? Well, not under infrastructure. That would, amenities would be a whole separate category. Go ahead. I was just going to emphasize what Markie said and I actually, I didn't put it within the Councilmember May by Shivas when you guys went through all these projects, I think Fred left earlier. You had divided them up that way. When you finally got, it happened to be the transportation projects for the bottom of the list we went through that day. And it's hard to differentiate any one of them. They're all kind of combined. And so when Markey was talking just before the meeting, that's how she looked at it. They were combined. And maybe you do talk about infrastructure projects and the other ones be great to have, but they're not as significant. And by the way, there's no structure to this particular meeting. I think anybody can speak about anything. If you do, if you do have new projects that you want to bring up, bring them up anytime. And if there's more information, you want about a specific project that we didn't cover in an earlier meeting, ask either Dave or Nye, we'll try happy and light you. But right now you can just ask questions, discuss, prioritize. If you want the results of what I did, which are just so you can see how you came out, I'm happy to give those to you, too. Well, I guess to try to put substructure to this because I don't want it to be a free for all. What are you looking for at the end of the day here? What do you want from us? But I would like to be as a staff member, but then I got a couple other people in that committee. What would be helpful for us as staff to see what projects that not only are the 22 on the list, but any new ones that are important to you collectively. And then we know some cost a whole lot more than others. There are $50,000 projects on here and $18 million projects. If you gave us that list, then I think it's our job to go away and kind of massage it, see what we could accomplish and come back to you and say, hey, you know, we think we might be able to do these that are important to you. We might be able to bond the road fund for these and we might. To the FAB as well. Yeah, that's true. And maybe that's what you do. We go do that list. Take that scheduling and funding list and go to the FAB and come back to you. So I think this is the first question then. Are there any projects other than the ones on this list that any of us have an interest in seeing being done? That let's deal with it right now. That was second on my list if I was running me. But that, because that would just deal with us. Well, I just have one question you. We talked a little bit about tie walls and all that kind of stuff. How about the trash areas, particularly one up on far away? Is that in your little road fund at some point? That's not in the road fund where it's a discussion. It's kind of a separate issue that we'll talk about at some point. So it's not, we didn't, we actually took it, it was on the CIP, the ELS, we took it off. We're gonna go to the EV with a little bit of it, it might come back, but not right Oh, that's right. I forgot about the system issue. Okay. Question of how? Yeah. Well, one thing I'd like to add to and Hunt brought this up to me earlier today. Maybe that's the one you have on your list is there's no trails master plans since 1988. But see, I don't, to me that can be done. It's not a CIP project. It's not something we should do. And I think it's something we should do. And I think it's something we can do in general in conjunction with the trails committee. Well, in the other comment I would have is that there's one project on here that really affects three others that I think that we should also do sooner than later is the entry way face three planning study. Because in my mind that would affect the visitor center, the ice rank and the performing arts center. That's where he's why I put that down a minute. Well, they may be amenities, but I think we need to be taking a look at actually doing the study at this point, because there's going to be pressure on the entryway going forward sooner than later as we saw last week with the discussion on the tennis bubble. Yeah, I have no problems in terms of planning studies. So you could put it. Because before I'd support any of those items, I would rather have a planning study in place that's adopted by the council saying yes, this is an acceptable use of the resources at this area. And as you noticed on that particular one, I have $100,000 in their place. It has a placeholder. That doesn't mean that's what it would cost when we were originally talking about. We were going to hire a consultant that could figure out how to do a multi-purpose facility that accomplish everything including the rodeo. We might be able to do to flesh out some of the things John's talking about. I imagine we could do it for much less. Just a quick question. You mentioned a trail master plan, I think. John, is that tie-in to the trails to transit improvement program? I mean, does that tie into the trails to transit improvement program? I mean, would that be essentially? I would imagine the trail to transit is something you could go before the trails committee, and it could be incorporated into a trails master plan, but John was referring to the traditional trails master plan that we've done, but it should be incorporated because the goal there was to make sure we have pedestrian connection to our current bus stops. So maybe that trails the transit improvement program becomes and trail master plan. Could something like that? Yeah, could be what I think I hear a clenches that we should do that outside of this anyway. Right. Right. Sorry, the trail we've asked about that. Right. Right. Any other new things that you don't have on this list that somebody we should give it to about right now I'll find slide Well, you know, either any other summer amenities that can help draw Tourism to some ass. That's a good point. Is there anything like that? You know that we should be thinking about you know for years We've talked about the miniature golfing, with that bringing people up. Are there things that we've been contemplating individually or as a group that would say, this is something that we really need to bring forward? Well, it's pretty interesting because if, you know, about that little mini golfing aspen at the ice rink, it is jammed with people all the time. I mean, it is crazy. We've actually chatted with them to see if he might have an interest coming this way. How about a bowling alley? Because right here there's rumors of a bowling alley going into Aspen. Yeah. These are not really bowling. These aren't really capital improvement projects. It may be owned by the town. I don't know. I can't speak to that. I'm talking about the summer and minute. Is there a summer and minute package? There is a summer and minute. I don't know. I'm just putting my hand. I got a feeling that if people come here in the summer time and can't find enough to do with what's here right now, they probably shouldn't come here. I mean, my God, there's so much you can do here in the summertime that doesn't require a dime of expenditure. But part of the thing is, I think if we bring people up and have them spend their dime on the mall so we can get sales tax out of them. And so we can take those dollars that we're collecting annually and where do we sprinkle that money to help generate money? I guess is sort of what I'm thinking. Jason, a couple projects I've heard a little about and I don't know necessarily if I'm in favor of them or not, but just to throw them out there for the discussion. Parking over by the trailhead for- The pines. Yeah, no, the pines. And the top. Is that- Probably, from the trailhead. That's parking. My understanding that is on your work plan and I was going to incorporate that into sort of the drowsty. And I have to be back from the wildlife study that that would be an appropriate location. It's just a decision you all would have to make. But it doesn't need to be a part of the CIP. But I think we have it on the list. The rest has it on the list and I've thought it on that list. I've been tearing from folks interested in expansion of community garden opportunities. And that might just be dedicating some town on land to community garden purposes. I don't know that that would probably be pretty low capital project and maybe high return. Unless you chose another site in town I would incorporate that as far as the entryway planning is that there's a whole bunch of things that people talked about being the entryway planning is that there's a whole bunch of things that people talked about being done down there and you're not all of them can be done so that's a spot where it could be done. Okay. I kind of like the golf course idea. It's other things for kids to do in the summertime and they kind of get exhausted and don't laugh at me at bowling. There are a lot of kids like to go bowling after they see me. In Michigan. Oh, actually. Okay. Fine. I have a me a bowling. There are a lot of things like to go bowling after this. In Michigan. Well, there's a count. Oh, I say, okay, fine. I won't, don't forget. Does the council want to add, minister golf, if that's what you meant? Well, I think that we need to have a discussion when it's not minister golf. You know, is there something that would drive business? And I'm not sure we need to open and have a survey of the businesses on the mall But are there things that we're some of the time results are doing that seem to be a draw Alpine slide this may or may not be a capital Project right now, but if this is something you would want to put in your work plan of And this is something actually we've begun to look at is are there amenities that we could provide on the mall It's been a discussion we've had with merchants. May or may not be a capital project at the end of the day, but it's something you'd want to look at. I think it actually would. Can you just speak briefly because those two may seem like marketing and tourism type of investments. Isn't there some stipulation in the market and tourism fund that has to or may be used towards capital improvement. 10% of their budget could be used for basically capital projects. Could it fund the visitor center? We'll find further discussion. So as far as they were originally going to pay for it. You know, other things that people are thinking about that aren't on the list. Let's get that knocked out. Well, one thing I'm thinking about that's not, it's sort of on the list, but your ice rank item at $3,300,000. I want to hear or see somewhere on the list ice rank as is today at $30,000. And it just so you know, it's- But actually, to you very soon. Yeah, just come on. We actually, as you know, have an ice rink down there now that we do with the SWHA. It's scheduled to happen this winter. Shortly, you'll see a presentation. It won't be the town's money for the possibility of a shelter to cover that existing hike rink. And I would call that the $30,000 ice rank which staff is in favor of but the money for that structure by the way would be coming from a third part. A donor. You're the landlord. Yeah. We would be coming to you as the landlord. Right. But speaking of the ice rink, one thing. One thing. The landlord's in snow mass western would be coming to that. Correct. There's an automob automobile here we is. The we is, I would be in favor of making having the prohibition in the town. I'd write the council memo and yes, SWHA would be coming to the council. But the ongoing construction and maintenance of the ice rink itself on an annual basis, that's also outside of town. It's all volunteer. Right. I think it's all donations and volunteer. Yep. If the real estate transfer tack was really flush like it was four years ago, we actually came in with the fozl to actually have staff on that, but we had to be cut because we didn't have the money to do it. So we welcomed somebody from the outside like the SWHA. That one would be something you would want to think about in terms of how permanent are these facilities. If you want to finish this area of planning. Out of time. I think that plan is extremely important. We've kind of been talking about it for, yeah, ever since I chaired the planning commission. But let's talk about a short-term long term on the ice rink. I know about this $30,000 thing coming. The challenge that we have at the ice rink right now is visitors really can't use it because they don't come with ice skates. So if you don't bring your ice skates, you gotta go to Aspen. So the question would be on the short term, is there any type of a, I'm getting a little bit off, some type of a structure that we could consider on a capital improvement project, where we could get a rental business going on ice skates. I guess we could do that temporarily, and that's why I'd love to see the whole thing plan and we talked about it It's happened talked about it that if we're going to be running that ice rink down there We want to be able to rent skates because that's what is key if you're going to get the tourists in there I guess you could do it at one of the sheds maybe that's currently down there that SWHA uses Right now they don't rent them we and I don't have space at the Recreation Center to actually rent them. Well, I've just, I think that it's going to stop them and, you know, all those. Short term, long term. Right. It is, as we go back to think about how, what can we keep our tourists here, which is where you were going going. I think that's something we ought to put on that draw list, even though I don't see it's appropriate for our discussion. So I think you got that project covered on the list. Right. I think you read for the planning. The entry way of planning is good. Right. Any other things that's new that's not on the list? OK. No. You need any more information or do you want to discuss any of the 22 projects that are on the list? Well, we probably should discuss. Let's go down that. Do you pretty well understand them? We're happy to give you information or if you want to discuss any of the individual 22 before you move on. Well, my thought was let's look at this list, use some of the categories specifically, like housing and work through a little housing discussion. This housing specifically top of the list for draw employee housing at $125,000 to me was a one. I don't see right now that it's necessary for us to spend a whole lot of time trying to plan any housing. Thank you. Thank you. The bill you're saying you think it's important, but not at this time? I was actually saying it was important. I think that it was, you know, my thinking it looks like a lot of people, it's really skewed. Someone didn't follow the numbers, right? I wasn't paying attention to these. Okay. Okay. Okay. So when they're talking about individual projects, speak up because they got rated low or they're going. I agree it should be rated low. I agree with you Billy. Yeah, I don't think we need to spend the time in it. So is there consensus that housing category for now? Should, you know, be as low? Yes. Well, slow in conjunction with the conversation we may have with Picking County and their housing program. Who knows? And I don't think you're saying housing is unimportant. You're just saying for this point in time. Right. It's not a priority. You've got other priorities. Correct. And I mean that would be part of a conversation note of broader housing demand and all kinds of things whether we proceed with that right now. Correct. And then what is the right housing myth? Or what does it we know? What do we need to build next? What do we do by? Do you have a buyer? Oh, that's mine. You should thank it. OK. So nothing else really in housing. I think housing is doing very well. Capital replacements, part of that group and what else do we need to think about in a housing capital study? I don't think so. John? We talked about a couple of other subjects in our last meeting that will affect that. It will affect your excise tax budget. Okay. Then under next, let's just go down the list. Project bed at park. This has been a, as most people know, it's been a long-term plan for park down through the mall down to the base. And we've sort of put that on hold last years and it's become more complicated with the disillusion of SSR I would have cursed. Really? It's infinitely more complicated. And the reason is there's a trail connection, it's also beautification and landscaping project too. And so we're having more difficult time trying to get the easements to do this type thing or what do you mean? Suffice to say that the town is having trouble getting the easements. The easements are no longer being granted to the neighboring properties let alone the general public. As a result of the SRA dissolution because all those lands used to be in common ownership Everybody up and down the entire West Village, Joan and Min common now they are owned by basically the adjacent up the project and the individual projects and the individual projects, homeowners associations, are declining to undertake maintenance or liability for the trail that already exists. Let alone the entire green belt park, whatever you want to call, a Benedict park plan. So right now our benefit park goes down to where? Right now it gets down to camp. Yeah. Yeah. Actually burling game. You think John, it's a matter of negotiating a trail easement. So it's clear who has liability. Well, I think once the SRA is dissolved and gone, and each of the individual properties understand that those pathways that they used to have to go up and down vertically, I guess, is a way I'll describe it, are maybe no longer gonna be open, that they may be amenable to a public ownership or public easement, trail easement across those with the maintenance being the repository for the maintenance being the town. At present it's not working that way and until the SRA is dissolved and gone it's just my opinion that would be a very difficult project to undertake at any price. No, but I think John is saying this may not be real actionable right now. I would not say take it off your list. What I'm saying to you is that the problems that are incumbent at the present time make it. I think dictate that it be a lower priority. Or is it something that Down says, you know, this is a priority that we want to make sure it's public easement and let's, you know, find out ways to take that approach and say how much is it going to cost to maintain it? Once? Well, that's a different story than your capital improvement. The maintenance is a different thing. But once there's too much uncertainty now to get commitment vertically to make it work. Right now, only parts of SR, I mean, remember, you just last week had your first subdivision, right? And they haven't even got all the properties surveyed and ready to come back to you. But once they're all done, and then the proposal is, here's this plan we'd like to implement it. Here's how we'll relieve the availability of maintenance. Then you have a chance. I'm not saying taken it off the board. I'm just saying that priority wise. How long will it take to get that SRA stuff do you think? How many years? What? Let me tell you that the first agreement with SRA was in 1978. Okay, so it's a deferred project then. It's on the list. That's all I'm saying is is that I would not throw other resources. I suggest this is a low Yeah, that is a one and before you actually want to pursue that you want to consider whether you can afford to maintain it because right now I've dropped Benedict Park. We all maintain it at all. I've talked to the Jason properties owners and say if you want to maintain You need to Same way, for example, the area in front of the homestead, which is in a public right away, but benefits the homestead. I said, we can't maintain that anymore. And if we, even if we did these kinds of things, I think I almost want to, if we build them as long as the adjacent property owners agree to maintain them, that's the only way I would do it. For example, the section that if you remember, the landscaping we did in front of the six homes down from Sinclair Road on West Side, that's the agreement we had there because we really can't afford to do it anymore. Do we beat this dog? Enough of that? That's fine. Okay. Brush Creek Stream. Brush Creek Stream Restoration. Everybody remember what this is? Oh, that's. Brush Creek Stream Restoration. Everybody remember what this is? Oh, that's. As you know, it's done several. We did the one down by the chapel. We also did the one up the Woodbridge Yarrow Park. Councils at those time, and we actually had a whole lot more money when it actually did the whole stream. I think the next section would be down around the club area, but we haven't done anything. No. No. So that's a low. And those typically get funded when projects come around that create opportunity and actually additional funding. They spillage, we ask them to do that portion of it. Well we did the one around the chapel, we also did the one in Mayfly. Mayfly, we did the one around the chapel. Did the chapel approval come with some stream restoration in that no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no and falling on that kind of stuff. Okay. Right. So that's another law that we're not, you know, jumping on to. Interway phase three study plan, right? I think it's high. I think it's the highest one for me, just so we can get a better handle on what can and should happen. And I just think the entry statement we have right now when you come into the village is pretty sad. I think we really need to jump on that as well. Staging for construction. We are. But that we're taking the consideration the ice shrink as well. That's part of the entry way. Correct. Yeah. Okay. I think there's a lot of things that we've seen. We've there's a couple of things that we've seen. I think there's a couple of things that we've seen. I think there's a couple of things that we've seen. I think there's a couple of things that we've seen. I think there's a couple of things that we've seen. I think there's a couple of things that we've seen. I think there's a couple of things that we've seen. I think there's a couple of Yeah, visitor center and so it might make sense to some degree if you had entryway phase three and then visitor center and ice rank were kind of sub-set And actually, I mean, read what we wrote up we felt they should be tied together for the same way Right, in add to that the tennis The tennis bubble issue too, I like to have that Well, no, that's going to be a fact, that's going to be a quick argument with you from the previous That's going to be over before we get to the planning stage. Right. Well, and the proposal before you is not for you to invest Council on that. Right. Somebody else's money. Right. OK. Plus, it's on an existing persona. But I just want to be clear, there's consensus that visitor center and ice rink would be subsets of entry way. The entryway, entryway is a high priority. Well, and what about the performing arts center is that we haven't landed on a location. Way down to it. I'm saying is a subset of the entryway. No, I don't think that's where we were. Okay, honestly, thinking about it, your comprehensive plan, we did indicate a different location. Okay. Okay. Moving on to the bridge program. What is the bridge program. What is the bridge program like Kinesda? What the bridge program is way back late mid-90s we were talking about is a part of the whole brush creek stream restoration. Colverts are not great for fish or the stream. So we wouldn't want to replace all the big Colverts in not great for fish or the stream. So we wouldn't want to replace all the big culverts in town with bridges. The first one we thought about was the one, the little culverts and bridges that would, as you enter the wood bridge, if you go to see the source of the mountain. The town never actually funded that because of cost. That one at the time, 10, 15 years ago, was $250,000. But it's still on the council's mind when they approved base village. So when they approved base village, the condition of that approval was replacing the huge culvert that Pruss Creek went under wood robe with the bridge. And now you help out there today, you have that. You have the bridge. We also, as you remember, made a condition of the approval to actually re-abiltate the stream in the area and we did that there there too. That was not 800,000 of that was not our money. We kicked in a couple hundred over and over. So that's what the bridge program was. Realistically, the only way you're going to be able to fund the bridge program, although I think it's important, is through the road fund. And to the extent that money ever becomes available, that's where you're probably going to do it from. One bridge we've always wanted to do, but we can never get the county to go in, whether this is the big culvert when brush creek, when in the, within the county when you go past. The rodeo. The rodeo, and when the stream comes back to the seven star, we've always wanted to replace that one with the bridge and actually put the trail underneath that, but that never happened. Could we re-title that culvert replacement program or something like that? Sure. This sounds more like an ongoing maintenance and basic. And do you believe as Hunt said that that should really be a road fund? I don't can that. Can we make that? I suggest that that's the only existing fund that we could with the general fund and the general fund doesn't have any money. It's up to you about how high a priority it is. Oh. Oh, yeah, I think it's a little priority. I think it's a little priority. Today it's a little priority. Understand, yeah, this is all straight. If staff had that as the second- The lowest. But at some point, those culverts are going to fail and so we're going to have to deal with them at some point. For example, if we do a roundabout the wood road, a brush creek and out creek, since we're right close to that call, it might be a part of the problem. We can just do that for that program. Okay. Brush Creek, out creek road roundabout. Tomorrow. Yes. I think this was one of those high ones. High priorities. That's the real easy. They're high. Could I ask a further question that would be helpful? Is do you see that equally to the wood road, brush creek roundabout? I didn't. I put five for the wood road for. I don't need to make a choice because what's funded one isn't. It's just I think you may get into a discussion of you could spend some money bonding it on brush creek. And it's not a question you have to answer today. And if you consider the high project, we'll go away and come back with some positive. I guess consider both. Sounds like you consider both. Yes. Do you get any design economy by designing them both at the same time? Or, and does this 3 million? Is this already designed? This is what I had to expect my design. It's about 80%. They say it's 90% but since we have to do some more I think it's more like 60. You have to do a little redesign here. Yeah. One down there we've done a feasibility study matter fact DNI on the side I've talked about it but we don't have the same. it's just feasibility study at Al Creek, a real design, 60% here. Does the $3 million estimate include the culvert? I'm going to guess it doesn't. It does not. But remember, it's just a number. This is a very, very rough number. Yeah, really rough number. Both roundabouts. Both roundabouts, I think, are important to deal with. Bush Creek commuter trail? Oh I forgot. I've missed it. It was 3.88. It's higher than the two I got here. Yeah. And this is specifically the trail though. Pedestrian walking from Creekside. We also said in there if we had money all the cost more from pre-side down to the center But what I had in there initially was from the Creek side up. I think the whole thing's important. I put that right underneath the roundabouts. Okay Rest to council hall. Do you feel I agree? Where did staffs Ranking on that one come in was that? Just this, we heard about the safety issues. So I don't want that. Is that it was number two? It was number two. Pretty high. Highline road trail. You know, right now to me, that's not so high. I mean, I think that, you know, for those people who use that, they can walk lowline trail to get off the road. I was typically the people that make that loop around the golf course, they run high line road, they don't run the low line. Actually, the going around the golf course, you walk through the golf course. I mean, I walk my dog around all the time and I come back down in front of the clubhouse and walk past the clubhouse and up past the tent of sports. I'd never get near high line. I do when I lived here I used to do the same. I do the same for him. So I think it's a real low priority. I mean I think we do stream respiration at that location we can put a stream you know she'll be there. Cheating off your miles by doing that. Yeah that's not. I already doing that. Yeah, that's not. I already called that, doing a little bit more. He talked to Jeff Kramer. Jeff Kramer runs the big loop twice. Yeah, there's three more days. Every morning. I'm the road, too. Yeah, okay. But you know, there's a list, there is a way to do that. You can go down fairway. I do this, yeah. And you can yeah, let me get out of clubhouse drive and you can do the east brush creek Down to the roundabout Yeah, if there wasn't all if there wasn't alternatives, I'd put it very high, but there are Thank you for pointing it out, John Brush will run to point it out point of debt out. Taking the road's cheap. Fresh Creek Road Fence Replacement. The replacement or dismantlement? Well, yes. Well, it's an annual cost. Right now it's been deteriorating. So when it's failed, we've taken it down to having replaced it. We've reduced the linear length of it. There's a lot of gaps in it, but I'd rather have a nice looking fence with gaps in it. Either we take the fence down, or we take all those sections that need to be done, put those back up and consider new sections where it's failing. Where? Well, next, the brush creek road between the brush creek path and the road. There's a part of the old Ben Woods plan that's, you know, the Greg Crump theory and that's how it was originally. You know, I was thinking of it last weekend when I was walking to him from the jazz festival. And I was, you know, it didn't really bother me that there was gaps in the fence because we're used to that for wildlife being able to get through there. You know, as long as it's attractive, but it's when it's leaning over and broken. That's where we need to deal with it. At that point, it was basically just pulling it down. Yeah, just those sections. Yeah, but too many gaps. You might as well take it down. Yeah. Well, I think it's a, I think it helps define our town. Okay. But if you're going to do it, you ought to do it right. It should be an annual maintenance and we ought to have a little fun for depreciation offense and put it into the road fun. Where's the time, Ben Sir? So if you want us to work on that and actually include it. You know, I'll tell you, I've looked at the road fun and then I have my legal peep and Mary Ann here. I've looked at the road fun is that anything that's basically transportation oriented except necessary vertical within the public road right away I think is eligible for the road fund. So for example I'll do sidewalks along brush Creek Road or a trail if it's adjacent to the road within the right away the fence is outside the right away and I don't think it's road fun eligible. Then what fun would you put it into? Well if it's not serving a functional purpose. If it's landscaping and it's called that, then it's red eligible. Or general fund, of course, general fund can do anything. But if you're saying, come back with a game plan in terms of how to incrementally, you're not replacing it all, but incrementally doing maintenance, isn't it? Yeah, could we see a cost around that, or is it really not worth it, given the state of the thesis? I can do it. I should do a better job of determining what it would cost to put it back to something that's going to last. That would be great. This is more of a plug. I can do that. And how to pay for it. Yeah, continuing. Okay. I'm going to put it medium. Yeah, it was going to be by very word. Warm medium. But I see it doesn't appear on the CIP project long term. Should just be. Obviously this next one's very important, but I don't have any numbers at the moment. And I just, I don't have. How do other communities worry about this kind of stuff, do they? Just like what Joe does. Yeah, they do have the placement programs, save money and a fund. Yep. Yeah. We don't have any depreciation funds. That's our biggest problem. No, that's correct. I think we need to. I think it's one of those important areas that we need to work on. We agree. It's essentially a liability that we're not budgeting. Right. We, wait, it's not fair. Future, you know, uses. Now, recognize finding the money to pay for this is a different issue, but I think if you're saying this is important, we're coming up with a number. So at least we have a number to work with. Okay. That's important. Hi. It was good. Miniscatual. Would you do have ongoing repair, because this is going to take a while to replace this building. It's going to take a while to replace the rec center. I mean, they're here for a bit. But we do have budget items for maintenance, right? Ron going maintenance of this building of the rec center. Not the roof, basic maintenance. But in turn, yeah, roof replacement, redoing, citing, painting. We're not keeping up, but we do, it is. Okay. Well, I would hope we have a policy before long in this town about doing a depreciation if this is the life on this building is 30 years. Okay, let's put that in, advertise it, and put it into the budget. Because most of the things people do when you do this, you know, you float upon when you do this, you float a bond and you build it at that time. So that's why you generally don't do these capital replacement type deals. Because you say, as a life, you use it and be done with it. Then we'll go for another hit until you go to the community and say, hey, remember though, we're not talking about building maintenance here. We're talking about replacing schedule. Yes. And boilers, rooms, yes. Big ticket We're talking about replacing schedule. Yes. And. Boilers, rooms, yes. Big ticket items. Big ticket, every. Inevitably half. And if you can in budget for. Those things, yes, definitely I should have a life in. We need to get into that. We don't get caught. What I'm hearing, hi. Hi. Yes. Well, I know Picking County just got through doing that on all their county buildings. Scott, have you talked to what's in the more there? Yeah, okay. Yeah, but yeah, there's just two different things. One is capital maintenance and then an appreciation fund is replacing a building. I'm not sure I want to go to a different thing. What Markie's talking about that. There you go. I think the long term, the big ticket items, we should be planning on replacing and scheduling there. But is it appropriate for a community to think about saving money every, you know, for 30 years, 40 years to replace the thing and building a fund to do that? Or do you do that when time comes to build it? When it's fall, I think the latter, but I think groups, boilers, those picket items, we need a replacement schedule just like Joe does. Yeah, I think so too. I'll compromise. I disagree with all compromise. How do you guys down there? I think you're right, Bill. I absolutely agree with you. I agree with you as well. Okay. I'm silent. Not normally. Moving on to the Fomio Arts Center. Is that something that? Don't we have a study? Yeah, again, we've chatted about this. What we have is a study that Pat Smith commissioned. And it was specifically at that point in time. It does have some valuable information from a sizing standpoint. But it made assumptions of Mr. Developer, whoever that would be, contributing significant dollars both through the capital and the operations. So I think it has some valuable information in terms of physically what it might be, in terms of how to actually pay for it, the assumptions were probably good at that time. Okay, but I guess my point is we've got two things. We've got that study and we've got that, the conference center up at base village that is available for some sort of public use. Isn't that where the mass did on things going in or? Well, I don't know, but I'm not. But I'm not telling. Oh, know. But I'm not an ally. Oh, sorry. But I'm just saying. That's what we should do here. You know, I think something like this, probably the paired basement's work. It's probably paired with a kind of a broader interest, which you may have now, with a broader interest to redevelop them all. You know, this would be if there is a burning desire to create a performing arts facility, you know, I think you're taking that study and updating it at the end of the day. But do you wanna do that in isolation of anything else occurring on the private side? No. No. No, I absolutely don't because I think sooner or later there will be one or more developers in here at base village and the mall. And there will be my hope and my prayers, there will be significant changes to both. And it seems to me that's an appropriate time to really focus on something like that. Yeah. And that's what it's got to be part of. So until we have something in front of us to really look at, where's no point in even considering it. It's considered a lot. So not a heavy priority. No. OK. Yeah. Down Hall parking expansion. Yeah, I think this is important. Something that we need to work on sooner. We're asking the carpool. I would need to troll carpool. A medium for Jason. Marky. Oh, I think I had that. Where did I put down? I think I had that. I think I had that. I think I had that. I think I had that. I think I had that. I that at the beginning. A medium for Jason, Marky? Oh, I think I had that. Where did I put townhump? Well, I had to put it as a high priority, but I can tell you back when it came through the Planning Commission. Employees were supposed to use the bus transportation, and that plane does not happen. So yeah, and as far as it didn't make that happen. Well, then why did the town agree to that as part of the parking management plan? Because we're wrong at the time. Because we want to tell them all. They wanted the building. I would put it in the go-day. You better yell, sir, that's the center press of the mark. No, we didn't hear that, sir. So where are we with that council? Medium. Medium? Medium? It's more high from me. Russ, what's your opinion at? I mean, is it a big issue for dealing with the building? No. You know, on a day to day basis, you'd probably get to different opinions within this room from staff. Is it a day to day problem now? But when you have an event here here whether it's training or an event in this room That's we have inadequate parking. I don't think we should be any more police training here and that's all You know non-dazed meeting so is it a day-to-day problem? No But if there's an event lot because most of these employees are the group sales marketing employees think mute together right right but there is a problem out if that upper lot yeah I think it's a you know it's some of us drive really huge no and there might be some cheaper alternatives to this too instead of putting I think that one idea of the parking lot across the way, I think that would be worth it. And there might be some cheaper alternatives to this too. Instead of putting the tiered concrete over the... What is the idea for parking? There was a nightclub. There was a scrape at all. Yeah, we talked about parking. We had a point of sight on option or... Or putting some points on it. A deck over the upper lot. That's not deck over the upper, a deck over this lot right here, right? No, deck over the upper, like you drive up onto the draw site. As you had an access road for the draw housing, you would be able to access a deck over the upper parking lot. Oh, okay. And then come down. Yeah, come down. Back down to exit. Down to exit. But the most economical short term would be to just scrape some terraces maybe into the point site. You know, the problem with the slope that you have there, you really would need to, I think, terrace that in order to. And then the tie into the existing road was challenging so You know, there's no perfect answer. I don't think at this point, but those are the other times sometimes I see that Somebody pushes out some snow over there. Yeah For some we just get a big front-end loader. We push it out But then we have Snow Rubbish you don't get extra parking. Yeah, we do. You can see the officers and a day like this, you'd see the officers parking right there. Now, if I remember when we went through the approval or through the design of the town hall, we were looking at that lot line and there's some objection of having any kind of activity inside of that lot line and I's some objection of having any kind of activity inside of that lot line and I can't remember exactly there was a lot of opposition in this town to that. Sounds like that was the argument. And I wasn't here at the time. It was the point site argument that that would be a big piece of paper to retain and sell. Or sell off. I think there was. There was $20,000 square feet of commercial could go there for $7 million. Whatever it was. What? It's a no. I mean, if you came up with a low cost temporary solution for parking on the point site, that wouldn't necessarily compromise the value, which was more the issue when you talked about where you're going to cite the building. That's a permanent impact on. Well, I think if we can do something out there for, you know, as you're speaking, scrape it off with some gravel down there and call it. 200,000, I don't think it's worth it. Yeah. If you could come up with something that would give you another 10 to 15 parking spaces relatively and expensively in the tens of thousand, maybe that's something we at least present the argument and the alternatives to you. I think if you were to ask that. That's all we're really asking today. Yeah, medium high on that one. And we do have some preliminary analysis from S2N. We didn't. That looked at that already. Yeah. OK. I don't know if it really costs. I'll take medium high. Let's go. Medium high. Moving on. With that, it's medium. Did it do it? We sort of put that one to the side because they're doing the task force. It's a high, but it's over there. Right. The trails, the transit and proofing program? I'm sorry, snowman, has done, did you say that was- We said that's basically part of the process you're going through right now. Five of one, see three. Yeah. Yeah, it's a high priority, but- Not of this table, maybe. Okay, I just, if that group that 501c3c's high does that mean they got a green light to ask you for a dog? No, I don't want to be clear. If I can't, I think it should be off this list. It's like my comment was not applicable. Yeah, because I don't think I don't think it's something we should consider as a capital expense now. That sounds like a low. No, no. No, I think it's not applicable because until the task force, you think it's not right for a decision. It's a delete. It's not right for being included in a capital project for us. That's fine. Yes. Trails to transit. Trails to transit? Basically, good or is it? Basically, this is if you want to consolidate this project with the trails master planning, I have no objections to that. As long as this project deals with a lot of places tangent to the roadway that are going to be very difficult to put in pedestrian connections, I'll use the Alcreek road along the firehouse to say meto ranch or something like that. As an example of, there are some big challenges here. Also the brush creek trail, newter trail is also kind of a part of it in its kind of thought process. And again, those are very demanding, challenging places to try and put a pedestrian quarter in that's going to serve the commuter, not necessarily a recreational trail user. And that's the big difference. That's why they are sort of become separated. But I think if there's a commitment by the trails committee to kind of focus on that as an objective, then I think they there's a commitment by the trails committee to kind of focus on that as an objective then I think they go well together personally. Yeah, I would agree with that. Okay. Medium. So, something we can do, but it's a conjunction with the process. Yeah, but we do it in conjunction with trails. I like that. Yeah, the trails think it's a great idea. Now we get some more projects. They're all big ticket items. They're... I've got them all together. You wanted to lump them all together. No, we'll just go ahead and talk them. Talk them. She lumped them together, but... Oh, they're all related, for sure. They're all related. They're all related. Yes, it's true. The bus storage facility was an attempt to, well, first of all, talking about depreciation, parcel C building garage that the bus storage facility is in is now almost 30 years old. And probably is in the need of a lot of TLC. The TIGRA 2 grant that we received from the FTA, which we're trying to move forward on and install this winter, will replace the lighting within the building with LED lighting to try and cut utility costs. And then also install high speed cloth doors on the exterior of the building that literally if somebody drives through them, which people are want to do today, they reset themselves. And you don't have to rebuild the panels and the doors out of commission for two weeks and while you ship in parts. So we are making some forward steps in addressing the bus storage facility that exists today, but the thought process to try and improve delivery function in the mall area and get some delivery trucks off of Albert and daily lanes and the cul-de-sac at the back of daily lane. And the circle in front of the Silver Trio Hotel is trying relocate them into that building. But the shared use of that facility by the bus storage is a big conflict. And I don't think it in the long run satisfies either party very well. So the thought is if we move the bus system out of there we can start begin looking at things we want to do with the mall structure to try and improve the- Let me ask you a question. Don't you think that all of these projects and you're right, everyone, it's a huge one that relates to the West Mall, West Village, I should say, should be done in conjunction with whatever happens up at the mall? I would say pulling the, if you're going to relocate the bus storage facility off site, okay, because you have to almost like do it first and then tear everything down. Yeah, it's all done, but who? That's the one that could be done somewhere else. And I did some studies long time ago on a couple of options. So that's the one exception. The rest of them are pretty much linked by the nature of their proximity and their impact on each other. Well, again, I would go back to the same thing I said before. I think sooner or later something is going to happen to the mall. And I think all of these projects should be discussed when that issue truly arises. And I don't think it should be a top priority now because I want to see what happens up there first. And just to give you, we had a previous council member, not here with us, now that was beginning to make an argument to do something sooner versus later versus waiting for whenever that next developer comes on board. I'm just sharing with you kind of the other perspectives. And the other is more of a near-term issue. And I'm not saying I think in the ideal world you want to be working with that private developer that would redo that. But there's another argument with EOTC that you've got $6 million there. I don't see it going away. But if you had the discussion about do you maintain this fund for the entrance to Aspen or that that should go away. They would kind of throw back, should we continue to maintain 6 million. What is it at this point? 6.4. 6.4 million dollars for essentially this group of projects. And I'd like to say one thing too, that this is sort of a, this project suffers from like this paralysis through analysis that we've done. We can't decide what we want to be when we grow up so we'll wait. And the mall is a challenging development site. It's a three-dimensional puzzle. It's not two-dimensional. And there are constraints on almost every side of it. So if you want to make the investments in certain elements of it, they're pretty straightforward in what they are at the end of the day. But who subsidizes that and how you fund it, that is where the rubber meets the road. And that's exactly why I would like to wait for a developer to come in there because then you've got somebody else to talk to about funding. Right now we've got nobody to talk to. Mark Eman-Jason. Let me go back to the money that we have sitting at EOTC and link that into Davey made the comment that you and Haunt have looked for other alternative sites for the bus storage. Where might those be? Well, we basically, I have a thing I can project it, but in a nutshell, it was looking at bearing it underneath lot two. And using the back portion of lot one as sort of an access road slash Entrance if you will that would try to give the least amount of visual impact to the community and then it had Contemplated some office space or and driver arrival Facilities on the creek side of that structure. So from any of the existing development, you probably wouldn't see any of it. Except for the garage door elements on it. When I was thinking about the domino effect, it appeared to me that no matter who the developer were up on West Village, we got to move this transportation facility. So my thought was that would be the highest priority. And then if we have Mr. developer in the next two years, now we've got a partner who might pay for it. But on the other hand, we've got to figure out this transportation thing sooner or later. Every time I turn around, we've got a new developer. And we've talked about this for how many years? Yeah, and that's the only thing I was going to mention is that, and I understand where Fred's coming from. Well, I've been here, but I've been here in this. I've been here in this since the early 80s, which essentially means it's not going to get done. At some point, you might want to be a first class resort up there and just tackle yourself and maybe you can nick them at the back end. I don't know. Well, I think the transportation facility that the replacement, to me, is a high priority because it's the first phase of whatever we choose to do. It doesn't happen overnight. I don't know about what it is. Just thinking about the 6 million in the EOTC fund, I mean, access to that is based on that funding is set aside for the transit station. That's not correct. So that wouldn't necessarily be available. The budget. Regional transit. Yeah, regional transit. Couldn't go for shuttle, but it had to go for regional transit. Why would we do getting the bus storage? Is that accurate? No. What we did for C. It back in the last time ETO TC was involved in the process was it would help any road configuration to facilitate the facility, which was is that snowmelt road piece and then whatever replacement parking you were doing, it would be eligible for that. So that becomes a part of that big parking number. I think this is a larger discussion we need to have is, what are we gonna do with that money? Or is it something that we know that at some point in the future, we're gonna be asked to release that, so it can be used for something instead of saying, hey, community, we're trying to build something, but we need some more tax dollars, but the community of saying, hey, community, we're trying to build something, but we need some more tax dollars. But the community then goes, well, hell, you've got six extra six point four earmarked over here that you're never going to use apparently. So let's just use it and go forward. So I think Stomach has to really take this by the handle and decide how we can use it and what we should be doing for a regional enhancement. Now if I was to, in going through and trying to upgrade the existing facility to a certain extent to make it presentable, let's say that. That that structure is long past its useful life. Now you could look at saying, okay, in the near term, we're gonna spend a portion of that to just redevelop what we have. And if it, as Fred's suggesting, we're gonna wait till the partnership it develops with a developer, which is, by the time you go through land use review, that's five years away. So I mean you could say is a million dollar investment or 500,000 to rebuild just the existing shelter, but improve the electrical elements in it. We're struggling to keep the heat tape running, the lighting, et cetera, et cetera. You could make those investments improve that facility that's there today. And you could decide what you wanted to do. You could take the piece, the access road up to Lot 7. And that would go through Lot 7, but TN to Albert Lane to make access to the upper village more intuitive. That expand your platform there so you could do more with the facility that you built there. Maybe you could throw the transit offices in there and call it, that's what you're doing. That's just the thought, thinking out of the box trying to say what little bits and pieces could you move forward, save yourself something, i.e. I might lease office leases 30,000 a year. So, you know, you're trying to not lease and own, if you will. But that's a thought of taking what was the components of the plan in 2002, 2001. If you want to start all over, well then that's maybe not what you want to do. On and Fred? Well, several issues I have on this is that when we went to the voters to get the OTC funding, we said there was going to be some facilities in snow mass village to compensate for our approval on the vote that got the OTC passed. To this date, there has not been one dime spin in Snowmass Village out of any of these funds that's generated millions and millions of dollars unless you include the free transit, but that's basically a transit issue for a compensate. We did design work. Well, you did do a half, oh that's okay. That's okay. That's right, okay, I take that back a week. And to be clear that that was the bonding vote that included the seven million. Okay. Yeah. But we really need to move forward. We're doing something with the money because we promised the voters that we would bring them something as a result of them voting for the bonding for the EOTC funding. So I would like to move forward, at least with some plan on how to improve our transit facilities up here, keeping in the spirit of what the original bond issue was approved by, yet bring something back to our community that we need to have in place to improve our transit. I don't know what that is, but it's- John, just to restate what I think you just said, which I think is similar to what David was offering as an option was, what could we do for 6.4? That would be meaningful and real and have some lasting value. And not throwing away when the development rehaves or so. Well, that would be the challenge. Yes. It is regional. It has to be regional. It has to be regional. It has to be regional. Good point. Does it have to be at the mall? No. You know, long as that indicates that there would be, but it's not specified. I wonder if you threw six million at the Base Village Transit Center. That would fix it. No. No. No. I mean, if's all right. Well, if the question before the House now is, how can we, should we do a plan so that we can access that $6 million so that we can redo a transit center up at the mall? Because the transit center is a waif in mall, I agree. And it seems to me it could be something separate. But if that's the question before the house, I think that's important and I think it's important for the reasons John said and I think it's important for the because we needed up there and you're the one who's saying it. So if that's the source of our funding, then I think we ought to try to get a plan together. The only thing that I have hesitate is to say that that $6.4 million is good leverage to get additional funding from other players. Whether that's the FTA, Federal Transit Administration, or a partnership with the public private development. So to be clear what David is saying is that this $6 million has been considered as leverage for helping to pay what is a total ticket if you had $35 million. So that's an alternative perspective. That's great, but it's a great local match. It's really, they're saying. I guess all I'm saying is that's true and this is stuff that we think we need to do whatever happen and I'll take back what I said if If I'm understanding you correctly this is stuff we need to do come hell or high water whether we have a other developer in there or not and We can get funding for it. Then I would think this is a high priority in terms of planning anyhow. Yeah, so You've got a $1 million plan on the shelf somewhere. Uh-huh. Jay said, which is what is it? What is it? $7 million. I'm sorry. We have a half a million dollar plan on the shelf somewhere. Yeah, that design. You saw a snippet of that when David, which is why it's not a $7 million in a market in the OTC budget. What does it mean to staff in terms of where you go from here if we rank at high medium or low? I mean, what is your course of action? I want to understand specifically if you're saying, and that was what I heard from John just now, what can you do for six million bucks? What can you do within your direct sphere of control? That's a pretty clear question. What would that scope be? It might cost some money to actually answer that question, too. If your question was, what's the bigger picture? How would we implement that bigger picture? I'd suggest you first start with the gain plan. Again, we did invest a half million bucks with, does that make sense today? Would it make sense with a future developer? And it might or might not. Marky and Fred. Did you want to finish it? Would it not be wise to rank this, I put all of that together as much as we're talking about. I think it'd be helpful to rank it as high consideration and come back to a future council meeting with a full discussion about this whole leveraging of six million or whatever the number is, what's the scale, what's the scale, the half million dollar study, we just saw this much for that piece. That's where I would go. I think it's clear. I mean, yes. Yeah, I don't think we need to buy for half million. Yeah, I don't think the question of just spending the six million is even a viable conversation. We can't get what we need to spend the six million on for just six million. So it has to be part of the big conversation to leverage that. So let's see, we're on that side of it. But that on the agenda put it as high. That would be high. That would be high. And I think, and I really will retract a lot of what I said about the, about having a partner with a developer, because I didn't realize it was another potential partner or partners out there. And if there is, and it's something that we really need to do, I mean, I would rate this very high because number one, it'll bring them all up to snuff, new developer, no new developer, and I think it'll make a developer happy if we're doing something like that. And he doesn't have to pay for it. And as Fred, you may have seen over the years, and those have been around a long time, you see the traffic happening where people come up and driving the circles. They can't find a place to park, and then they determine I'm going somewhere else. And so we lose that capture rate because people can't find a place to spend the dollars. And we want to happen to do that. Yes, we do. So I would like this, I really would, because I just didn't understand there were other sources of funding out there. And if there are and if we could use this $6 million leverage, boy, I think it's damning board to do. I'm not saying you have all that in your pocket and the original plans had a partnership with a private developer. And some of that went towards where you want to do your conference center, your performing arts, et cetera, et cetera. And all those were big questions, part of that bigger picture. So it's going to be a challenge to come up with this kind of funding. I think it'd be great if you came back with a full presentation of what that study was, half a million. I mean, the fear here is that, yeah, we could stall doing anything in the village. Meanwhile, our elected brethren in City of Aspen, Picking County are coveting the 6.4. They're saying if you're not going to use it for transit needs and snowmatched village, this is used for the entrance to Aspen or the intercept lot. I mean, there's a lot of plays. We probably need to let them know it's top on our priority list. Yeah, I think this is important. The message that we need to deliver to them next week. Yeah, because I think there is something, John speaks to the Intercept lot. There may be a great way of, you know, working down there, putting parking down there, and, you know and buying more buses now to move people up and down from that location. Well, I can tell you the other thing that Rafft is working on right now is a transit oriented development with the city of Newcastle. Rafft bought a parcel of land right at the Newcastle exit and was sitting there and they got approached by a city of Newcastle in a partnership with a private developer to build a transit oriented development Which is going to include parking bus facility retail and housing. I mean these are also things that might be worthy of discussion as far as You know other partners, but I mean these are opportunities that we need to be able to take advantage of and move forward on our side Understand from historic perspective. We were undertaking that as well able to take advantage of and move forward on our side. Okay. Understand from historic perspective, we were undertaking that as well. We were talking about transit order and development. We had Bob Adelino come to this council more than a few times. Spent quite a bit of money helping us trying to figure that out, didn't he? I didn't want to go there, Billy, but you're correct. And in fact, I mean, he was the one that was the expert, and it's probably why Dave brings it up to you now, in securing FTA funds based on a local match. That's why, I mean, 6.5 is not going to get you a regional transportation center. It's going to be a lot more than that. That's what we were striving for in a two-part public, one-part private venture. And so I mean, it's great that Newcastle is doing it now. I mean, we were not that close, but that close and things changed. And the feds say things are going to be shy and they're profitable for a while. You got one more, I suppose. So as far as the other West Village moral transit stuff, we've got snowmobile road relocation, all those things are part of this discussion we're going to have with. But I heard that's part of the package. Bus stop improvement program. This is, this address is some of the toughest bus stops to develop in locations that are along Al Creek Road up at Mountain View Creekside. So there are all stops that you can't just widen the right of way on the shoulder of the road. These are things that are going to take retention. We made a best guess at projecting what that price might be. And if you still have your packet it's we try to identify The price and the location of all those stops that were along El Creek Road and upper brush Creek Road This assumes that route seven doesn't come back in the near future that we can't afford to sustain that So we're making the investments on upper brush Creek grow to suppose to going back inside the complexes. The ones along Al Creek, Meta Ranch, at the end of Meta Ranch trying to integrate with the fairway three stop and where we built a lot of the schoolhouse employee housing unit to be developed, then also across from the chapel and the chapel approval. We got some commitments to develop a bus stop on that side of the road and we were going to try and mirror on the other side of the road. You've noticed that pullout that's there but it's kind of inadequate to design standards and keeps the bus in the roadway and so we're trying to make that improvement there. So those are some of the big tickets. How much do we save by cutting out Route 7? Probably $120,000 annually. That's a good number. It's a healthy number. And the other part of it is increased frequency on long brush creek. By rerouting route 4 going up the outside road, that's one of the reasons rationals there as well as, you know, who do you serve first, the mall or base village, et cetera, et cetera. That was the routing decision was to try and increase their service level to give max access to the ball and the skiing But we're not going inside anymore, but if you get out on the road you can get a ride Jason just what are you referring through when you reference dirt circle? dirt circle is that Peace we just recently paved that's kind of in between the upper and middle entrances to Creekside. And it was trying to serve people coming from those two driveways into Creekside to come to one location. Well, long I'll Creek, we actually have some partnerships with the school district to help us fund that bus step, don't we? No partnerships. No. Not that I'm aware of. No, wait here. You got it if he may be. If they had money left in there after their budget and you're going to agreement to discuss. And we do have some discussion we had had some discussion with but So we do have some discussion, we had had some discussion with what, uh, mental ranch about, uh, using some of their land and they were sort of able to allow some of that to happen and move it off of the private person parking pad there, whatever it was. I don't know. It was a little bit strained, I will say. I'm not sure there's consensus over there. I'm at a medium. At a medium, sure. I'm at a medium. At a medium? Sure. I'm a low medium. I'm more at a medium on that one. I'm medium. Correct. Medium sounds fine. Medium? Medium. What's that through? I'm medium. I'm medium. I'm medium. I'm medium. Medium. Medium. They better times. I'm the good mean. I mean, I mean. I mean, I mean. I mean, I mean. They've been in time. They can stay. Meeting rare. You have to call Carol. So Carol, is that right? Carol cooking today? Frosty cooking. She's in the subway. I was suggesting that we go away and look at funding sources and just touch base with the council. We don't have to be along me and then go to the FAB. This is, I did want to just try and capture what I think we just heard and I just bounced this off. Hunt, see if he got the same list. We had entry rate phase two combined with visitor center on his front. And, this could be in the context of the budgets you're going to be looking at. This might be coming sooner versus later in terms of a budget discussion. We had Rush Creek, Al Creek, Roundabout, Rush Creek, Wood Road, Building Replacement. Again, Building Replacement would be something you've told us. Let's put together this game plan and we'll put together a game plan. We bring it back to you for a future discussion. Transit projects in the mall specifically, it's first kind of re-understanding, re-learning what we invested a half million bucks, what is the game plan, what were some of the assumptions around partnership, my guess is we're going to hear some things from also Wasserman in the future of base village, and then kind of in this kind of moderate brush pre-commuter trail in town hall parking, again still things we would be doing and bringing to you a game plan, but kind of at a slightly different level. And I guess my thinking there is, depending on how many dollars it takes, you know, might change the ranking. You know, if it's only going to take 50,000 to do the parking out here, that might be worth while they're jumping on, right? Absolutely. Did we capture your thoughts correctly? Earlier. That sounds right. Good. Good job. Thank you, hon. He did all the work. Bill, that's Fred. In an hour and 45 minutes, you're a genius. Well, I think we need to thank- Not done yet. On the staff. And the town staff are putting this together. They've done a great job. Yes, they have. Thank you. I think this is the matter. What more? I know. I know. I know. Thank you. Thank you. Anything else that we wanted to discuss tonight? Russ, anything else you got? A-A-V-L-S-O-W-I-D-S-C-N-E-R-S-N-E-R-S-N-E-R-S-N-E-R-S-N-E-R-S-N-E-R-S-N-E-R-S-N-E-R-S-N-E-R-S-N-E-R-S-N-E-R-S-N-E-R-S-N-E-R-S-N that no it's the the the the the the the the the the the the set of Cougar hunting. It's on Netflix. A streaming.