We'll start with a call order. The Stomach's Village Town Council, regular meeting for November 21, 2011. First item we have is roll call, please, Rhonda. Mayor Boynell? Here? Wilkinson? Here? Butler? Here you have? Here? Cooker. Yeah, Mark, you should be here momentarily, but we are going to start it. First item we have, actually the next item we have is item 2 for public non-agenda items. Are there any up there for public to speak to non-agenda issues? Seeing none, let's move on to transfer updates. Mr. Wattenson. No, I just want to thank the Silver Tree Hotel and the SNNAS Rotary Club for the fine things giving holiday party we had last night, the Silver Tree Hotel Conference, and it was well attended. And I'm always amazed that the community that comes out for this event. It was well-running Lots of very good food. So thanks again to the silvertry All right to add to that it was a great event last night the John Venus Call John Bea's community potluck. Thanks to being dinner And as you know, no, the general's there, we also, besides taking the silver tree, the rotary, some folks from the town, like, around the coxen and the out from the chapel, like Karen Gibson, and all the staff that put that thing on, it was a great time, I think it's always one of those things we all work forward to. Other than that, Councillor Patel, I don't have any for being. Jason? Nothing for me. I just want to say I also thank you to Ski Company for cranking up the lifts ahead of time. It was a little thin, but still with skiing and snow and it was always good and a lot of people showed up. So thanks to the ski company for getting this open early. That was great also. Moving on to this item number four. This is for second reading audience number five series 2011, amending the 2011 budget. There's man's names on here. I'll move it. Move it. Motion is second. I was working since second by Jason Haber. Any discussion? No. No, the rest of the ordinance has the changes that we discussed at the first reading and the excise tax fund. Other than that, there have been no changes. Okay. Any other questions from Council to staff? Could you, for minus what the reason for the change in the excise tax fund to that? The reason was for the change was we wanted to use the original numbers that we gave to Council for the rodeo place hounds back in July. Any other questions? Here I know all those in favor, one of the five series, I'll call for them. All the same, thank you, that's right, ordinance. Miss Ronda. Yes, sir. We have a roll call, but please. Mayor Boynall. Yes. Wilkinson. Yes. Butler. C Boynell? Yes. Wilkinson? Yes. Butler? Caper? Yes. Cooker? Possus, three to two, absent. Thank you very much. All right, move it on. Now we have another discussion. This is item five. All in a sip of up update of a tennis level application. Mr. Mayor, maybe just a little clarification in terms of item number 5, and then I'll turn it over to Hunt. Again, with this item, as with most development projects, we thought it'd be a good idea to check in with the ownership in terms of where we are right now. We have Beth Mehal here from ACIP and a few others, I think, joining her kind of further articulate the rationale for going forward. You've also received a recommendation from the Planning Commission. You've also received a number of emails, both pro and con. So this is an opportunity to really touch base with the ownership and receive any further direction from you. Basic question with this is whether we should move, continue to move forward with an application. I just want to clarify then with item number six, we are then that is an item with the town council and your quasi judicial role. And with that, that is a request for a continuance to a future date given the timing of the last planning commission meeting and our last packet deadline. Thank you, Russ. Turn it over to Hunt. Turn it over to Level. And Leslie, when you talk, if you can bring the microphone closer to you, so they can hear you on TV, Diane. Thank you. So you have before you, I believe in your packet, you have the Planning and Zoning Commission Resolution. We were with the P&Z two separate meetings and I'm. It lasted one second. A lot of people just showed up. If you haven't signed in, when you got into the room, please do so. Imagine a few of you may leave the room after this is over. So let's continue. Thank you, sorry. So we are specifically asking you as the owners to continue with the process that you started. It's a special review process. And we were, we have been guided in this process by Chris Conrad of the planning staff and during a pre-application conference, he said it's necessary for us to go to the planning and zoning commission first, and then come to town council. It took us two means at the PNZ to get through the, you guys called PNC up here, right? Planning Commission up here. It took us a couple of meetings to get through there. And while we thought that we had were issues of concern. I don't think that we did as good a job as we could have done to clarify a response to these issues. And so we're working on just better clarifying the issues and how we're proposing to mitigate those issues. And by way of example, Tom Dunlop was hired to perform a noise analysis. And there was a little bit of Q&A of Tom at the last planning commission meeting. And there was a little bit in Tom's mind, a little bit of confusion and how his report was being read. Tom cannot be here tonight. He's traveling over the holidays. And so that is, you know, another reason why we'd like the meaning to be continued is we really want Tom to be here to be able to answer any questions that you may have after you've read the report. You don't have an application in your packet because they're deadline to submit a packet to you for today. We'd have been I think the day after the planning commission meeting because remember it was continued. So we don't have a packet. You don't have a planning staff memo. So we're asking you to just let us go through to the end of the process that you as owners of the property said that we could begin. Thank you. Okay. In reading a lot of this over the last few weeks, and talking to folks about this as a owner, I'm probably more into the thinking that I'd rather not continue, wasn't it? When I go down there and look at the place as the owner, I was really thinking that this would be a large ice or as we used to have a tennis ball right behind the snowmess club that was supposed to be a temporary structure for many years and it turned out that it stayed. But finally, the ski company, when they acquired the club, did build an indoor facility. And once that went down, I did not hear the complaints and stuff, the number of reasons to grow and that kind of stuff. So I guess, in my position right now, because I haven't talked to the rest of the council, just going through all those thinking that it's owners, I'm not really inclined to move forward. I think there are a lot of other negatives about having it there besides the location and the proximity to homes. You know, I guess if I could look at it again and say that the tennis courts would be in the middle of the radio lot, the parking lot, you know, it might be better. But when I go through that neighborhood and look at the size of the polls we have down there, I'm very concerned and I'm not really in support of continuing the discussion or the cost that may take to try to get onto the next level and to look at it. Because I think this is a good community grassroots effort. And I personally would rather you guys find some money to do other things with but I personally have a hard time with it in an application for our other council members speak. Again Mr. Mayor we encourage you to kind of focus your comments on whether it's a good investment in time and cost and again I know Beth is here and maybe also want to address you. Okay. Yeah, does Beth want to speak to this? Can I just... Sure, there's a bit. Down the opportunity to respond again. You know, you've brought up some of the issues that we heard at the planning commission, for example, the Earth, so I'm asked, what about it? And we believe that that bubber was being used as the example of this bubber with the flagging would be, which is very different. Mr. Mayor, I just want to interject again in terms of testimony about the aesthetic, what it looks like, those would be all very applicable comments for the development review application. You have for their entertaining it, certainly taking in, but on community benefit, the purpose behind this application, if she has a comment. Yes. I'm Beth Nihon, one of the ASIT representatives. I guess I haven't had a hard time understanding a lot of this because back in August, we kind of presented to you guys that, you know, we really thought that this was something that was be a great community benefit. And, you know, we were excited about coming forward and talking to you about this. And as you recall, you're voted for one to hear more information. And we feel like a lot of that information has really not even been out yet. You know, you mentioned the polls, for instance. The polls don't tell really the story that's out there and we'd like to be able to, you know, put me now to you that we have shown the project. The polls don't, you know, because the bubble curves in, the polls don't represent what, you know, so some of those discussions we have not had with you, we feel like there's a lot to the presentation that maybe you haven't heard that needs to be considered. There are so many benefits to this, bringing the economic benefits, the community benefits. I can go on about those, the things that are really great about this that we want to be discussed. And we want to make sure that you are aware of, you know, this is a no-risk opportunity that we're bringing to you and, you know, sure that there are some drawbacks and yes, we want to discuss those and talk about that, but there are also some great benefits to this and we want to make sure that all of this is heard and we don't feel like the process has worked its way through yet. And with one more meeting left to go, we feel like that discussion needs to take place. So that's what I'm, we feel like there's a lot left here that we haven't clarified. We feel like there's an awful lot of support here for this in the community, in the valley, and that we're missing a big, we haven't looked at all the different sides yet. I understand that, Beth. I guess it was really, some day that I thought it was a good discussion to have, I was really in support of this initially, because I thought it would be, it's a possibly very good community benefit, until honestly I went down and looked at the size. And yes, the poles were on the side there and you know, they don't really make good. Exactly the shape of this thing, but it is one of those, it was just my really good feeling when I went down there and walked the neighborhood and walked up the road. It was just to me feeling like out of place. And yeah, there are these other things that are, you know, partially considering that you're speaking of that we've seen in the application, that you're not application, but the planning commission's report. And we've not heard everything, of course. But in my thinking as the owner, it's probably best for us right now, just in my opinion, to say, you know, this isn't the right location it really doesn't make the best sense for my personal feeling to where I would like to see something that do believe in the right location it is a very good asset. We've looked at a lot of different locations and we do feel, and this is the argument we would like to be able to present to you without doing a piecemeal, without me coming up here and just touching on some of the things here and there. We feel like we have looked at a lot of different locations and what this really brings to us. Anywhere you're going to put this, it's going to have impacts. And this particular location we're using in existing footprint, we're using an existing foundation, we're using existing parking and existing rec center that we can build on. It's going to help the rec center grow. It is a recreation center that we're helping to grow. And bringing this benefit to the community at absolutely no risk. We are putting the money up to buy this bubble. And we feel like all of these discussions really haven't gone through the process. And there's one meeting that we have left needs to happen so that you can really hear all those things and know you can have an application in front of you. So you may look at some of that and not really have seen some of the benefits, what we've done to help reduce some of the impact as much as possible. This again is a no risk situation for the town of Stonestona, Spirige. And do we want to look at that and make sure that you are making that decision based on all the different parts of the information? Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith, I know one of the questions we had a chance to ask and I don't know if it's been further considered is if there's an interest in offsetting any additional costs for the process. Have we spent some money to date on this? We have. You have an idea about? Yeah, I can answer that question. Okay. We spent about $10,000. Oh really? Yeah. In the beginning, we just assumed it was going to be a pretty straightforward process. I was estimating $2 or $3,000, $4,000. But then there were some questions that the planning commission asked of us. One was noise. And one was also about visual. So I needed to hire. I'm not a noise consultant. I needed to hire Tom Tonlapu, I think was a good choice on the noise. And then although we got a discount, I needed to hire somebody to do renderings because we wanted to make sure that we depicted that bubble as accurately from various locations throughout the town. And as a part of that, I had to actually pay our planner a little bit more as well. to actually pay our plan or a little bit more as well. Okay, does any comments from other council? Comments from council? I have some questions. Markie. Chris, can you talk about the deliberations at the Planning Commission or enlighten any of us on those discussions? I've got the resolution here in front of me, but was it one meeting? Did they ask for the additional comments? Was it two meetings? I think it's in the packet, isn't it? Yeah, the resolution is, but I'm asking more in terms of the verbal conversations. On the first two. They conducted a site, independent site investigation. So they saw the story polls. And yeah, they were up at that time. And then on. Microphone close or please? Microphone. Speeding to the. I miss a word. And then on November 9th, they adopted their resolution. So they had two meetings to discuss the item. So in terms of the packet that went to the Planning Commission and the presentation at the Planning Commission, did we have a full presentation, Beth, and were all these issues discussed in front of the Planning Commission? I was at the first Planning Commission meeting and because the second one the date was moved. I was at a town at the time. At the first planning commission, do you want me to discuss what happened? I assume there's a, I mean I used to chair the planning commission and those deliberations were very detailed, very insightful, very complete as we prepared at that time the resolution coming forward into recommendation to council. So what I almost fear you saying is you don't feel that you have been totally been heard through our town processes, given the planning commissions. Do you want me to do that? I can see. But if you want to take a, you were there, both whatever. I can add to what you say. Is that OK? Yeah. That's fine. I just want somebody answers the question. We had two meetings with the planning zoning commission. The first iteration, the application, the submitted, was pretty streamlined, pretty straightforward. It was a four-quart bubble. And the tennis courts are where they are. The location and the bubble from one end to the other, the tennis courts, I mean, it was. The bubble was covering the four tennis courts. And we had a floor plan of the bubble and we had some conceptual ideas of what this bubble would look like. Where are the renderings? There was a elevation of the bubble. Is that what you're referencing? I'm just going to ask questions as we go along here. Yes. Yes. So then when we met when we spoke with the when we met with the planning commission, they raised issues of noise, visual impact, and lights from the bubble, the glow from the bubble. So we continued the meeting and we hired Tom Dunlop to do a noise analysis of the noise from the mechanical. The bubble was shrunk from four courts to three courts and because there is a used bubble in Crestabute that is for sale, we were able to get specific noise readings of the mechanics, and then another floor plan of the bubble. And then we drove around Snowmass Village and took various pictures from various points of view of the community. And then it snowed so we were able to get a couple pictures of in the snow, and then we hired a man Jim Bebel to render the bubble into those. He had done for us the four court bubble and then we had him do a three court bubble and then the PNZ wanted to see more And so we included that in our Addendum, Submittal, and then we met with the Planning Commission again. The first time we met with the Planning Commission on Bob Purvis and on. Excuse me. Tom Yolkum. Tom Yolkum were not at the table. Bob Circus was at the table. The second time we met with the Planning Commission, Bob Purvis and Tom Yelk were at the table and Bob Circus was not. But Bob Circus submitted an email, I guess, to the Planning Commission outlining his reasons for why he would support the bubble. We did not have, we didn't know that email. We only knew of it when the chairman was referring to it, Bob Hervis was referring to it as they were working through the resolution. So we feel that there was a little bit of a disconnect there in the ability to not only respond to a planning commissioners' points of view and opinions, but we didn't, that was some information that we didn't have. We also believe that during the deliberations between the two meetings of the planning commission that things were kind of destroyed as far as public comment. At the first planning commission meeting, there were quite a few supporters for the tennis bubble, and there were one or two neighbors who were against the tennis bubble. At the second planning commission meeting, there were more neighbors who were there, and there were less supporters of the bubble. We also feel very strongly that, particularly with related to the noise and Tom Dunlop's report, that Tom Dunlop's report, that the data that he was using to compare the noise out of the mechanicals and the ability to mitigate any noise that comes out of the mechanicals if someone hears it versus the noise level readings that were taken in the neighborhood were basically negated by anecdotal information. And Tom and I talked about this after the planning commission meeting and he feels very strongly that his report was not really vetted and was not considered in the context of the whole application. That is a report that you would have in your application. You would. So he's withdrawn his report? No, he is not withdrawn his report. Okay. He just would like the opportunity to have a discussion about his report and his findings of his report with you. And at the meeting, at the second meeting, we had better slides of the visuals of the bubble. Okay. Any other questions, Mike? Not right, yeah. Okay. Any other questions? Not right yet. John? Yeah, I got a question for Chris on page 9 of our packet. Here's section 3 at the bottom concerns. So the Planning Commission had concerns about the economic viability. Was there any economic data of part of the application that they reviewed or did they look at those or I'm just kind of kiss why they would add that to their resolution. In fact, I think Bob circuses the first meeting but also in general there was discussion about the economic impacts or viability of this operation. And of course, that information is really something that we've invited you in the earlier meeting. But- That's, does that a criteria? Yeah. No, this is on section three, which is concerned. It was just right. And it doesn't relate directly to a review standard. They really wanted to get into what were the financial aspects of this type of It was just right. It doesn't relate directly to a review standard. They really wanted to get into what were the financial aspects of this type of the financial viability of this type of operation long term and its impact upon the town's budget. And they were informed that that would be a matter that would be within your purview and before you and that that information would not be forthcoming to the planning commission, but they did want to express they had a concern. Billy, yes, I would just clarify what Chris has said here. He says before you, the economic analysis is not part of the review standards for a special review. That is before you as the landowner, and you as the overseers of the town budget. There is one review standard in special reviews that allows for, it calls it design minimizes environmental impacts. One of the environmental impacts identified in the code is degradation of natural resources, IE and how much gas are you gonna burn up to heat this thing. That was as far as staff would let them go despite repeated questioning of the applicants of the economic benefits. And so they didn't review that. They looked at, they want, the applicant provided some information from the previous owner of the bubble as to the consumption and that's about as far as that standard allows you to go. And so they wanted to identify it is still a matter of concern to them. You'll notice that that's after the action, the all the information, the findings, et cetera. And they're just saying to the, from the Planning Commission to the town council, this is an area we had concern, but they were not, the following concerns that were not specifically reviewed, required by the review standards. So they kept to their quasi-judicial purpose. And what Chris is saying to you here is that this isn't within your purview is that this is within your purview. It's not within your purview of the land use review. It's within your purview as the owners of the land. Okay. Okay. And I believe that the role that we've entered into this process with you all including the planning staff and the planning commission is that it was decided that you would run through the ran use review process first. And if the ran use review process was successful, then the hunt and his staff together with the rest of your staff with the town will talk about costs and programming and economic viability. Andy Rowe and I did make the statement that they have run the numbers and they are really confident that just by that they could book 30% of their time on these three courts, but the 30% that they could book would cover the costs of running the bubble. And he named that statement at the Plain and Zoning Commission. Well, that's 30% of the gift. No, he feels confident that he can book 30% for sure, and that covers the cost of running the bubble. Okay. Again, I've had the opportunity to review that same performer with Hunt in the numbers. I looked at, we're consistent with that, but that was the big assumption. Another discussion that has occurred is a discussion with Asit about then back stopping any operational loss with the town. And that has been something that Antes had a discussion with because that is a major assumption of would you get the usage that is anticipated? Well, the reason I asked that question, I just wanted to see if there had been economic data presented to the planning commission for this. It was just mostly just testimony from people acting on what they felt could have happened rather than actual analysis of the cost of heating the bubble and running it with the lights. No, no. I mean, that's part of the economy. Can I just wait, but we have, because this bubble has been up and has been used in the Constitution, we have the numbers that cost them to run it six months out of the year. So those are the costs that Andy took and plugged into their economics so far to get to that point where he feels confidence running by running the numbers that they can book this 30% and it will cover your costs. And again, this is an appropriate discussion with you with your ownership hat on and the discussion that John alluded to which is more of an environmental cost is something that's appropriate in the development review process. That's what I think, you know, we're at the position we are today just trying to get an idea in the handle of if we want to continue. John, Mr. President. I understand that what the Planning Commission is saying is this isn't our purview but we still have concerns about it. Because they don't get to where the ownership had. That's the only thing it's labeled as a concern. It's not a finding, it's not an action, it's not a condition. It's simply a concern. You get to deal with it how you want. That's all that was there. Jason? You asked me to, because you asked about the planning commission meeting and a direct answer to that, John, is no, we did not discuss any of the economic implications. And we feel very strongly that when you hear what we have to say about that, you're going to be very happy about what you hear. And we'd like to have the chance to give that presentation. We've done two years, there's the research in other facilities. We feel very confident about our numbers from that. And as you mentioned, ASID is more than happy to put up the money for it to cover the basic costs for the first year, because we know that those costs are going to be covered. And we feel so strongly about that, that we can put that in escrow and that, you know, advance it toward increasing programs or whatever later. So the nice thing, no risk, I mean no risk. So, you know, direct answer to that, John, is, you know, that was not discussed. And that's one of the things I'm talking about. I really like to have a chance to give you a presentation on. Go John. Well, I can tell you this is very hard. Surrounded by tennis enthusiasts in my family, in my neighborhood, and people I care about. I care about tennis a lot. I play it myself. But it's very unusual to have our planning commission come back, 6-0 against this application. And in reading their denial, I find sufficient grounds here to concur with them. And I know it's very hard to take. But as I went down to the neighborhood and I was walking around and looking at what would be the front view of four of our families that live in snowmass village or a part of our community, I'm thinking each one of us that would, what would our reaction be if that was to be built right in front of our house? And what would we do, how would we feel for six months a year looking at a big wall of white? And yes, there are four families, but they are full of time, snowmast village residents that live here and made a commitment to our community. It would be one thing if the bubble was there and we created the neighborhood, and then they moved in because they would have realized what they were moving into. But to have this structure all of a sudden put into their front yard blocking which is arguably a million dollar view, I find that the Planning Commission has made the right call in denying the application on basis of the scale and mass. So I know there's a lot of disappointed people out there, but there's also, you know, the community that I have been elected to serve and represent. And that's who I feel. I have to come down on the side of. So I'm with Billy on, should we go forward at this point and spend more money, I don't feel it's in the best interest of the tennis community, nor our community. It was as well as owners of the project, you know, because we haven't heard of all the pros and the unique things, why this would be a good thing during the application, which would be great. But I'm really in the position to look at that and just feeling as John spoke, that if I were living there and as an owner, I would have a difficult time moving forward to allow that to happen. Jason. I guess I'll just come out and say, I agree with Billion John and I'm happy to hear you both say that as well. I think the unanimous recommendation coming out of the Planning Commission is pretty definitive. I don't see how more information is going to take away from that and really sway anything in terms of how you would look at appropriateness of this site for this type of use. I wish that we'd had the foresight in planning that entryway to locate those tennis courts in a place that wouldn't be so impactful to the neighborhood. I think when you look and you see the letters coming out of that neighborhood, we're talking about this structure being less than 50 feet. Some of these folks front door. So that's unfortunate. But I maintain my position, I think, from the first time we looked at this, I don't think it's an appropriate use of that piece of town land. And as the land owner, I'm not in favor of going forward with any further expenditures. I'm quite disturbed in fact that we've spent 10,000 on this to this point. So I'll name it in my position and go with Bill and John on that. Why can't you have a position there? The reason why I was asking all the questions was to share my own mind and my fiduciary responsibility on council to make sure that the process was vetted, fully vetted by one of our bodies within Snowman's Village. Members probably would not sway me. It's more of the issue of the impact I've gone down there, I've taken a look at it, I walked around. I'd love to see it, there's nothing I'd love to see more than a tennis bubble so we could have a year round opportunity for our guests as well as our students that drive all the way to Edwards to play in their bubble. But I don't, I just don't think it's the right place. And I think it's just very disturbing. So as owners, let me guess I'd say that because they haven't had the opportunity to wrap this thing, but there's a basic feeling as an ownership is where I'm coming up with saying that this is difficult to move forward with. Yes, the 10,000, you know, the people are always really, we've spent that kind of money at this point, but I understand that it is necessary, you know, as we go through to do the whole process, but I'm thinking now it's the best point to say let's, you know, stop because I don't even think if they showed me that this bubble would, you know, bring in an offset all the losses we may have, I would have still a very difficult time. Yeah, the economic analysis doesn't, it's always good to look at economic analysis, but number should always not make the final decision. The decision really should be as a total package. And we've already heard from our planning commission. I thought they, personally, I think they did a really good job. And I just wanted to be assured of the fact that was all the issues were vetted there other than financial. Jason. I just, I think to me as stewards of town land and representatives of the voters of some actually comes down to a question of community sensitivity and this application in this location seems extremely insensitive to those neighbors. And I hate the idea that the town went and built those homes and sold them to those buyers. And to me, this is kind of a bait and switch kind of idea. You're buying this house with a beautiful view and this very low impact kind of amenity out front. And now talking about putting this significant structure is not the way that I think I want to be leading this community. Yes. Again, just in terms of procedure at this point, you could either choose to move to the next item, which would be a request to continue it, or you could make a motion to withdraw the application. I would like to make a motion to withdraw the application of the tennis ball at this time. Second. For the discussion, I guess I would like to hear from the public because I know it's, Jaws open back there hearing this, but please step forward, station over the record. Hi, my name is Dr. Gayle Mizner, I'm resident of Sturmass Village. Nice to meet you in person, like you. I would just like to comment and I don't want to sound too critical, and I hear very much what you're saying about the visual impact for those couple of houses. But I was at both of the playing commission meetings. And honestly, I was not impressed with the process. I felt that members came in with their ideas ahead of time. They represented the scientific data which they essentially ignored, which is really one of the things that is wrong with our society today. The whole thing about the noise was the report really wasn't listened to. The gentleman who was presenting it wasn't listened to and his points weren't heard. And there was still the assumption that it was going to be a huge noise problem when it was clear if you listen to the report that there was not going to be a noise problem. You all have not had that opportunity to see the photos that they've spun on to create. If you look at at those photos what you see is that there is one house that is very significantly visually impacted. That is true. One house. The other houses are not. They can see a little bit of bubble. They still have a nice view. There was a lot of, as is kind of been touched on, a lot of going into financial issues that weren't appropriate to the committee. And I think my understanding is that there is only a very small amount of money left to spend to finish this process, would be about $800. And I think it's only fair at this point to continue for you to be able to hear the entire presentation to be able to see the photos, not just look at the polls that are sitting there, and to hear more from members of the public as well regarding this issue. So I would be very disappointed to hear you say that you are not going to continue it. We're almost to the end of the process. You have, you have the final decision and you have not been able to hear all of the information. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, I'm Emily Garafa. I'm the homeowner that would be significantly affected. Number one, I wanted to- we were also at that planning commission and I understand what you're saying as far as the planning commission not looking through every detail because they turned back to the picture with the incredible amount of impact that they would see. And they could not get beyond it. It was just this elephant in the room. They wouldn't, I mean, they were still talking about other items, but they weren't delving into it as, you know, as specifically as they could have, because they just couldn't move past it. And I really have a hard time with the idea, I'm sorry, I'm so nervous. With the idea of this tennis ball being a nervous situation, 30% of the bookable time for three courts is 15 separate hourly bookings a day for six months. Is that reasonable? I don't know. So, I mean, if you look at those things specifically, you know, and there's a lot of rest for the town there, and we're also taxpayers, and we know that that's going to come to our pockets as well. Thank you, Emily. Thank you, Emily. I'm Kelly Freeman. I live next door to David and Emily, where the first house when you enter a rodeo place, there's a lot of talk about our house not being as significantly impacted. But if you come inside our house, all the windows that we look out of face the tennis courts are front door, and are patio that's on the end of the house, face the other direction. So truly, if you're inside or you would be in the winter, there is a significant impact. So I don't think anybody came in my living room and took pictures. I would like them to do that if they felt that it's not an impact. I also would like to say, they keep speaking about this being for their kids. What about our kids? What about the kids in our neighborhood that have to live with this for six months of the year? For their whole life, it's half of their life being raised in those houses. Thank you. Thank you, Kelly. Anything else? Please step forward. Hi, my name is Julie Anderson and I also live in the rodeo place community. My view is not at all impacted by this proposal bubble, but I'd like to just say there are many other issues, even if your view is not directly impacted. There's an impact to the community at large. So I just wanted to make a comment because my, the impact on me is less in my front yard, but still as a community member, it's enormous. There's a significant amount of planning that went into, as you've spoken, I won't be toured on it, but into this area with the recreation center. And certainly no one ever mentioned at that time, there was a lot of time and money put into this that there was even the desire for a tennis bubble in this area. And if there had been I'm sure there would have been consideration as Jason commented to place this you know in a different area if that was even correct at all. But having said in on some of those other meetings when this area was designed and when the rodeo play subdivision was designed, it was very important, the aesthetic value of this area of the recreation center and surrounding area of the neighborhood itself, in that this was the first thing people were going to see as they came into snowmiss village. And there was a certain image that the community wanted to maintain. And in whatever shape or form, whatever location, even if the courts were, you know, another hundred yards away, I'm not sure even then that this would be correct. So it just sounds like we're trying to split hairs here where I just completely concur with what the Planning Commission and what you are saying is that this is just not the right location. And it doesn't matter whether it's four homes or 10 homes. It's really impacting the community at large and this is not the right place for this bubble in my opinion. Thank you. Okay. Can I say, certainly one more. I just wanted to make two comments. You may begin for the record for the real taker. Gail Misner. I just wanted to make two comments regarding what was just said. One is that when we're talking about risk, I think we really are very convinced that there is no real financial risk to the town of Snowmass Village. Number one, ASEID is going to put forth in escrow the money to cover any costs if they were not covered. Number two, Andy is confident that he can book at least 30%. And when we've done research around the country, most indoor tennis areas book 80%. We know of people all up and down the valley who are eager would be eager to use these courts. So I just want I'm not dismissing the visual impact to those couple of houses, but I want to dismiss the risk. And the, the, what was the second point? Oh, the, and in terms of impact, again, for those one or two houses, I'm not arguing that. But from further away, from when you enter snowmass village, you're seeing the rodeo and the buses and the bubble is not. First of all, I don't think it's a negative visual impact. And secondly, it's not the first thing you see. And there's some stuff you see that's a lot less attractive in my mind. So I think I think and you guys have said it if what we can't get around is the visual impact for one or two houses that is there. Nobody's denying that. But I think the other issues are are not issues. Thank you. Dr. Misner. One more. Two more looks like. Okay. Danny? Danny, we were last name, last village. I was at the planning commission meeting where the, I don't know what his name was, but the guy who did the consulting noise, etc. Tom Dunlop, maybe. Sorry? Maybe Tom Dunlop? Yes. Okay. And I hate to say, but I thought it was a farce. The guy was there taking noise readings while all the construction was going on and he stated that clearly. Well, there's all those construction noise in the background and he didn't have any real numbers, no solid numbers about fans, heating elements, things of that nature. So I don't know that that study should even be applicable because let's hope that the construction is not going to go on forever. And I guess what I really find appalling about the whole process is that our friends and neighbors, supposedly in our little tight-knit community, are willing to throw three of our fellow friends and neighbors under the bus for their own desires. And I kind of lost a little bit of my, this is a great community when the whole base village craft went down and I moved into there and I kind of got it back and this kind of is tarnishing it again. So that's all I want to say. Thanks, thanks. You'll have to do a lot of rubbing over from time to time Bill Clark okay Well, I was trying to get to one Emily, but this is good and so Okay, please Pete Hirschberg, I live over here away from the bubble so don't exactly have the orientation that some of the room does. What I sort of sit and listen to the whole thing, big tennis player, I saw the sign on the rec center door that said there was a hearing tonight so it came up to hear that whole thing. The crew that's presenting for the bubble, what I really like that you don't have in a lot of situations in my mind is a no risk, zero risk opportunity to look at this. I know we've paid for pictures to be drawn, but they're willing to put the bubble up, cover all costs associated. And I'm with the understanding of all the centers I've ever been in. These are at maps capacity in cold places, typically. To have cheaper tennis time, we would play after 10 p.m. in the Midwest, so that you weren't paying the top dollar. So these places operated till one in the morning, some in some cases. So is crazy is that sounds? That's how hard it is to get tenestime in some places. So for this to kind of be floating around this opportunity, drop a bubble air, no risk. The neighbors can even look at it aside from the pictures that have been drawn. And then it can all go away if we all hate it a year later. So my two cents there. Thank you, people. Okay. All those in favor of the motion of denying the continuing going forward as owners of this, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Those aye. Aye. Aye. Those opposed? Aye. It's a three one. So yeah, sorry guys, but as owners, it's you know, I have to say that anything that people are coming to town and bring forward, I think it should be commended. I think people should be welcome to come forward and talk to us and say, hey, would you consider this? At that point, it gives us the opportunity to spend some time thinking about it. And maybe down the road, if we didn't feel as strongly as we do by just enriching it at the size of this thing, we would have said, as owners, let's allow the next step to happen. But in my opinion, what we've done is to allow good conversation to happen, good basic knowledge to happen. And for me as an owner to say, I think it's comfortable to move forward as a community. I'd really have a hard time going any further. I think it was good for the conversation. I think it's good to get people together to talk about it. I start playing tennis for six years old. I think it's a great thing. I should have been playing more. But you know, as well as things I don't, I'm sorry, but I just think, you know, that's the decision. Anything else? Marky? I want to explain why I said I opposed. It's not that I think it's only appropriate that I do that. Yeah. I was moving more towards doing the second reading or second meeting in order that we could see some of those visual impacts and the financial analysis. I'm very supportive of the decision that stands but I understand. I just I'm just one of those that always was to make sure everything's fully vetted before I say no to something. Appreciate that. Thank you. Sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We're going to move on to, I guess, item 6 we won't do. How should we handle that, John? You should probably call the item and say that the application has been withdrawn for the record. Thank you. Well, there's no necessity of a public hearing. Okay. So what we're gonna do here is, as John said, because we withdrew as owners of the application, we would like to withdraw the application, so therefore there was no more need for a public hearing on this item. Is there a second of that withdrawal? Right, I'm not yet. So no need to do it further. Introduce the item and state the action that was taken. Uh, can Mr. Kineh Redmond, introduce it and we'll just, uh, go through the motion here. You did. You come. Okay, that's it. We're done. So all you need, thank you. Well thank you Chris That's it Now then we're in two I'm a seven discussion with the EAB and friend of the bag of these statements Hey So great just for the record. I'm Sally Sparhawk. I'm the chair of the committee and First I want to say thank you all for having us here. I'd like to introduce the other committee members that are here. Mrs. Chris Jacobs, son, get it right here. He's the assistant chair of the EAB and Carol Goddain is here. And that's it for our committee. I think Gary Lightle was going to, he may show up in a bit. So the first thing I just want to say is thank you for having us. The second thing I want to say is yay on your laptops on being paperless. I mean, I'm like impressed. I think we're like, are we the first ones in the valley to do this? No, but close. Glenwood's been doing it at close. Cleanwood. Glenwood's been doing it at a close. Cleanwood. Glenwood's doing it at the gate, they've got laptops instead of pads. So if you ask me. I think you guys are awesome. I'm so impressed. Yeah, I'll sell it. Let me tell you what I try to pull up the documents. It's great. It's great. Take them. Who locked it? Well, we think it's awesome. And And we are inviting its fond committee applaud your action. It's a great example of being green and saving green at the same time. Well, I'll tell you that we didn't do this very easily. It took Ronda pushing and pulling and the other staff doing it. And so you should be applauding Ronda. Great. So what are we going to try and do in the next 10 minutes and give you an overview of what's here. And Chris is going to do that because I've been out of commission for the last couple of weeks with my mom. And so Chris has done the lion chair of the work with Leslie. And so he's going to give you the overview and then we want some time to dialogue with you. So we're going to keep this to 10 minutes and I'm going to buzz him if he goes too wrong. And we also have the information about the bag fee here. The committee, you asked us for a recommendation. And so we brought one forward to you. The committee did not see that, given all the other things going on as the highest priority for us. But you asked for it, we got it. So I'm going to turn it over to Chris and let you take it from here. Okay. Again, yeah, I'm Chris Jacobson and Mr. Mayor and Council, nice to be in front of you and speaking with you today. I'm going to try to keep it to 10 minutes and so I'll blow through some stuff here. I may repeat myself. First off, we do, we wish to applaud the leadership and inspiration that's been provided by Council in creating the Environmental Advisory Board. I think that though we don't have everyone here, I could speak for everyone when I say we are honored and we take very seriously our opportunity to serve Council and the community. We really think this is an important project that we're engaging in. We also want to look at where we are as we start this front. We've only been four months into this. So we also acknowledge with gratitude and appreciation the work that has preceded us. As preceded the current AB, the Environmental Advisory Committee, which started and was spearheaded by then economic resources, director Jason Haber, not to embarrass him, but I felt like a head. Now, front of us. And we saw a number of accomplishments as we came into it and there's a learning process that he's been fascinating for us as a board to try to get through the history and get up to speed. Some of those things are the bedrock upon I think we as the EAB bill today. The sustainability plan drafted in 2008 and adopted in 2009. The Stobes Village inventory on greenhouse gas emissions reporting on the 2009 values, but completed in 2010. And then recently staff just completed a quick review of some of the successes regarding the sustainability plan. As Sally mentioned, I think that a couple, there's a two page attachment in your document. As was mentioned, the packets, the 30% consumer waste paper products being used. The LED lights and high speed doors installed in the transportation bay. I don't know all the details on that, but to me that jumped out of the fact that it was 90% supported by the Tigger grants, which I also don't know that would seem to be a simple win-win, but I don't know the whole story. This solar thermal system on the rec center providing 100% of the heating needs for the lap lanes, the excess hot water being used for other domestic uses. Little things to me as a person who knows a lot about the building universe, the public works using the aquias enzyme cleaners, parts cleaners, using the water-based, or the heat source, strippers are all things that I think are easily applauded. Similarly, I'm starting to learn about the energy audits. It appears that we've got energy audits now on every building, every town building. Let's get an invaluable baseline for us moving forward. And then finally, I picked the lighting ordinance out because I like all of you who live here in Snowmass when I look out and see the stars. It's a magical and wonderful thing. And that will go away if it's not protected. Along those lines and partially I commented at some that's a little bit getting to know you and no some of the threats and interests. I've heard a lot in my listening accounts about trying to have a diverse and balanced group on the EAB and I think that in my assessment we do have that. We have what I would call business professionals who are for profit thinkers. We have a number of non-profit specialists. We have education professionals who are working in our community. We've got veterans, a town government, and the spirit of representing that diversity. I didn't get to talk, and we first met you. I'll tell you just a sentence or two about myself as we get to know each other. I'm a full time resident and homeowner in Snowmass Village. I currently sit on the Melton Ranch HOA board. I have a wife who lives here and we have two children, eight and 11, and they call Snowmass home. So I feel fairly grounded here. Similarly, in a balanced perspective of the EAB, I've had pretty good experience running small businesses in ownership and management positions. I've had about 20 years in the construction services industry also. My first business was in 95 when I was a fairly young guy in New York City, which was a little more crowded than here And so I've had some experience in how to get on but specifically I've been the principal partner in seven companies two startups We the last two of the companies had 15 employees That were in staff in house employees and we did over $15 million in revenue a year. So I know a little bit about a spreadsheet, I'm not going to say a lot and I'm not here to brag, but I just want to let you know that you have people that understand business concerns and business manners. Now let's go. That being said, the plastic baggage deal. I think also represented what I think is the balance on the EAB. represented what I think is the balance on the EAB. We saw the plastic bag issue coming up, staff communicated to us that we should try to produce an opinion. And the bag issue exemplified the possibility where you would get a standard knee jerk pro environmentalist support of the issue. And that's not what we had. And in fact, the most pervasive attitude was that it was not the most important issue for the group. And I wasn't important, but it wasn't the most important. The general opinion of the EAB was that there were more time sensitive, critical, environmental issues to be addressed. There were more immediate, verifiable actions to be undertaken. And ultimately, it wasn't anybody's particular personal passion. There were more immediate, verifiable actions to be undertaken. And ultimately, it wasn't anybody's particular personal passion. That being said, we used the plastic bag controversy to challenge ourselves to work through an issue in a timely fashion and craft the response as our duty to counsel in the community. So we had a thing in front of us where we're under fourth meeting, what do we do? We tried to make a haven, and said, nothing else, let's work through the process. You all have it in front of you. I'm happy to read it if you'd like. And you guys have read it and so I will just focus on the last paragraph, which I think sort of expresses the EAB and as we try to work towards understanding how we work together. That's paragraph foot page. I'm sorry, this would be a- Three of our back at 23 year package. So it's 23, but this is 25 I think. That's 25, 25, yeah. Which is the plastic bag stain. I'll read the opening paragraph two. The town of Snow West Village, Environmental Advisory Board, encourages town council to support a phased approach implemented over a three year period to eliminate the use of disposable plastic bags in the town of Snowmass. And the ways to achieve this are then outlined. We basically set one of our members off said, could you draw upon what's happening in the valley as this conversation is going to make some recommendations based on what you see knowing that it's a complete draft. What I think was more important was that as the AAB as we go into our final imperative we'd also like to comment on the broader issue at hand in this debate. While somebody say a plastic bag ban is akin to putting out a forest fire with a Dixie cup, I did not write that. You like that one okay. It is still an important component of the larger issue. A culture of one-time use, throw away, voraciously, consumptive society, we've become in only 30 years. A lot of the books on our consuming patterns really look to the last several decades, and this is a disposable aspect. There's an issue of behavior, priorities, and perception that needs to be addressed. A fee or ban on plastic bags is a way to initiate the larger conversation pertaining to the elimination of plastic as a disposable resource. Okay, we can go back to that if we want to. Finally, I'll just close out so we have time for comments and dialogue. We, attachment A is our attempt at some goals and priorities. And I'm sure as all of you working groups know goals and priorities are sometimes tough to get nailed down. I could pick a lot and they're all important to us at this point. I think I'll hit one or two and then try to close out. The electricity usage, as we've talked about a little bit, seems to be amongst our members an item that where there's a relatively immediate potential for returns in terms of cost saving and energy saving. The AAP is in process of examining successful projects, delivering the economics, your return on investment, and designing specific recommendations for council. So that's a kind of very concrete thing. When it has come up now in the EAB and in the EAC is more collaboration with the Roaring Ford partners. Who can we learn from? The green teams in the Valley, the nonprofits, the town government, ski co, et cetera. The idea there is often mentioned is that if we could instead of be duplicating whatever he wants doing, as often chambers have the struggle with, instead of collaborating with them, we're going to get an economy of scale, we're going to cost savings and we're going to not reinvent the wheel each time. Briefly, I'll mention that following on the creation of the emissions report, which Mr. Heady, I was not here at this time with climate mitigation services produced, we started to look at that and we asked ourselves, should we be having a meeting with him to have him come in and present to us and understand that process as a baseline to move forward? I just want to report to you that looking out for our budgetary concerns, we said no, we have the intelligence inside of our group. We asked for proposal, it was modest, it was $540. You said no, we can go ahead, we can take all the spreadsheets, look through them and make an analysis and figure out how to move forward. Just let you know. I finally end out where I'm just an item on the second page of this attachment that Sally had noted, which is to understand council objectives. I think key to our initial meetings, key to the difficulty in some of the discussions in the EAC, is the sense that all the members would love to understand what council would like us to do also in their opinion. Where they weigh in on the issues, basically, be it water resources, climate change, et cetera. And so just to briefly read, a prevailing opinion expressed at the outset of the EAB was that the EAB wished to hear from council as to their aims and aspirations for the board. The EAB wishes to truly gather the opinions of council, so as to be of service to the goals and objectives of council, EAB is of the opinion that the method to be most productive and provide the best returns for the town is to work with council in a spirit of collaboration, mutual learning, and measured effectiveness. Very good. You did that in 10 minutes. I timed it. 11 minutes. So we've So we hear from you. Firstly, I really want to applaud your work of the EAB, Chris, that was an excellent report. And secondly, I want to underscore some of the statements that you made. You were very eloquent and I really appreciate your honesty and that the sincereness by which all the presentation was made. I can tell you really put your heart and soul into the presentation. What I really, really liked was when I went through the attachments, particularly a, I'm going my goodness, this group has already grasped some of the major issues in front of us from an environmental perspective. And I would hope that we as a council would agree with the short term priorities, the long term. I looked at the watershed. I'd like to almost move that up under short term. It's very concerned about the integrity of our water system and the watershed. But when you hit on the Rick Head report, I said on council and we did receive that report. There was, within council, I don't think we all landed at the same place on the criticalness of that report. There was some suspect in terms of some of the numbers that came up particularly picking county airport and the emissions and yadda yadda yadda. And I'd love to see that report really vetted by the committee. I think that's extremely important. The plastic bag issue you don't get me started there tonight because I've learned that Canada's now going to be making their money out of plastic. I'm thinking hmm, we we used to send our plastic. That was announced while I was in the Dominican Republic. Which was what? What Canada's going to start doing is using plastic polymers to make their money. And the whole report was America's not ready to do that yet. And I'm going, going well that's interesting. Savor bags we can make our own dough. Are some of the candidates? The other thing that I learned which you know I do international work in third world countries and it hit home when I was in the Dominican Republic again. It's not a third world country. It's really a pretty major economic power house down in the Caribbean now. But there's no potable water. So every piece of water, every day, we were drinking 10 bottles of water and what happens with all that plastic. I think that is a broader issue than one plastic bag coming from a grocery store. And my thought was, well, maybe what we ought to begin to think about is how can we support potable water projects across the world. And there are some organizations that are national that are working on that type of stuff. And if we were going to do a bag fee, I was going to suggest let's partner and see what my colleagues who come in as tourists would probably be very happy to support potable water in many communities. But so where I landed at the end of the day was let's begin to really let this committee do the work that is amazing. That's in front of us for an environmental agenda for our town. Let's focus on the watershed, let's focus on this heat report, really get that voted, that it. And then let this committee run with an agenda and come back every quarter with reports and updates. That's kind of where I landed on it. I don't know where anybody else landed, but I really, really, really thought the work after five meetings is pretty darn incredible. Jason, I'll echo all of the compliments and kudos on the presentation and the report and for all your work, I'd like to see you. And just a few of the things that jumped out in some of your comments and the report. I work across the valley as most of you through my work with CORE with a lot of groups just like the EAB, particularly in Carbonell and Basalt. And so the commentary about collaboration and kind of reaching out into the broader Valley community on some of these things I think is a really good one. They've had their successes and their failures and I think you'll get a lot out of that. And one of the things I think that will come out of that to a degree is that a lot of the things that I think you'll find being successful in is that a lot of these opportunities to be effective in this realm are opportunities of timeliness as opposed to necessarily coming up with the highest, most important issue to deal with at that moment versus what's going on regionally. And so, frankly, I think if you had said that you came back and determined that the plastic bag issue was the highest priority that we could possibly be dealing with at this time, I would make a motion to fire all of you. So I appreciate that. And at the same time, I think there are issues of timeliness where you have that momentum going on a particular issue. And it might make sense to get involved and put some effort into that. So that's how I'm aware of a lot of work being done on the composting issues and some of the carbon days looking at their waste hauler ordinance. And so, I mean, to look at some of the models and framework for how we deal with that here, I think there's a lot going on regionally that we could tag onto. I like all of the emphasis that is being put on energy issues and our opportunity as an organization to deal with our buildings and look at the audits and the baseline study that Rick Headee did for us and look at how we can make that a useful document and move forward with that. Also just kind of giving some of the thought to, you know, how we've got a lot of the things done that we've got done to this point and a lot of it things done that we've got done to this point. And a lot of it has come from grant opportunities as Chris alluded to. And I think going forward some of those grant opportunities might become less. We might need to be thinking more about how we deal with funding some of that progress through our general funder or through. Town resources. Obviously looking at the Holy Cross enhancement fund is I think a huge asset to this community in our town. And I have always found Holy Cross to be very reasonable and forward thinking on issues of community sustainability and energy sustainability. So I think that should be a really valuable and fruitful effort, hopefully. Let's see. I guess the last two things, one, I guess, just thinking about you guys and the value of having the AAB really to be an informational resource and an educational resource, both to us as a council representing this town organization, but the community on a broader level, I think, if there is an opportunity to get out and kind of help get some of this information out into the community, I think that's a great way to use your expertise. And then you touched, I think, briefly in the report on this notion of our economy and our identity and the branding opportunity as a sustainable resort. And I think the document you put together on our successes to date, I think it'd be great to get some information out and more obvious. And so we're not the only ones that know about what we've done to this point and really make that more a piece of our identity and how we define ourselves and as we go forward. So thank you for all of putting all that together and all the work you're doing. Mr. Wilkinson. Yeah, again, I appreciate the work you guys done is fantastic. Really is a benefit for our community. Specifically, I have some questions on page 17 on a long term ideas. Talk about the first Creek watershed. Townsendown Mass Village paid for a study to be done. I forget how long ago that was. It's probably close to 2000. You're 2000 if you're seeing the Greenway Master Plan? Well, there was another one. the right, Perry and Eric. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, if you could take a look at that and how it would help you with your statements here. But also, currently, Picking County is going through a master plan for the property soon to be known as something besides drosti. And you can look at their biological and historical resource survey, some lines in Pick and County open space. If you need a link, just email me and I can send you back the link. But take a look at that because they went into some in-depth detail, not only with the animals up there in the birds, but also the historical data and also what they talk about watershed and they also talk about you know the flowers and everything else that goes on up there and there's some significant species that are mentioned in that report. So if you could take a look that combined that and I would move that up to you know it'd be a long-term look but I would move that up into something that you could do readily because they're taking comments right now. And hopefully the communities will be adopting this plan at some point within the next year. So your perspective and taking a look and seeing how that would jive would make a whole lot of sense at this point. I think that would be really important. The community gardens, currently we have the one that's down by the firehouses. Is that at risk or is this something you could do to just explain what you're talking about here? I think it's, I can speak that a little bit. That's one of my personal interests. I have spoken and done a little research with the fire department. I can't say I know everything about it. My understanding is that, that is, you know, may go on forever and it may be very temporary. It's kind of the response I got through the great vine. My general feeling is that this process of gardening and producing is somehow microcosm for myself, at least poetically, as to what we might kind of vision a little bit in snow mass as far as the diversity of our economy and things like this. So it's just motivational to me and I think I might have talked to you John about even looking at drowsy and whether they would let us do something there but I just think that it really adds to a... Well that's that's that's I hadn't thought of that that's not a bad idea. Then I've tried to grow crops in my garden, chives and peppers about the only thing I can get growing. So it'd be nice whatever you develop here is if we could expand it onto the homeowners in our community and say hey, if you had a little place that you could grow something, this might what would work for your particular aspect. I've had some success so I was going to do a little power point. That makes sense. One of the issues that relates to that too, this is not to get a totally off track, is that there are some ideas, I think, that are HOA rules that sort of inhibit gardening to a certain degree. And I'm not saying we should start allowing check into anything, but there are some inhibitions that I think we could start to move towards. I know in our community, in my neighborhood in Melbourne Ranch, it started to really sort of explode where a lot of people are having good success. Are you in Milton 1 or 2? Because I mean 1. 1 is a separate association. Yeah. And that was my next comment under the community solar firm because we did have an issue with that. Yeah. We almost landed on a spot but it didn't work out. And I'd still like to see us pursue at least a place, look a little harder, look a little deeper, come back to us, because that was an opportunity that we missed. For reasons that I don't disagree with, because it is a potential employee housing site up there, where they'd originally proposed it. But I'd really like to see our community get behind some solar in some manner. I see them up and down the valley. We see smattering here in snowmats, but I went as far as looking at when I replaced my roof with solar shingles, but the cost was extraordinary to convert to solar shingles. It just wasn't that financially viable for our family. If I could make one quick comment, I think one of the topics that I've heard a little bit from the community would be for Council to think about is the idea of whether we want a community solar farm and where we're giving a natural resource to a for-profit company that's then utilizing that in land to make profit as opposed to increasing the asset base for the township itself by utilizing a solar array that perv is not to be here and not to talk for him because I've had the conversation with him but was talking about a nighty could we use some things like that community asset base solar that would then offset maybe some of our marketing events and things like this. And so have a direct tangible connection to our town, similar to Fred's points about the task force. And trying a project that's tangible and verifiable, and you can see. Jason here to come and I get a couple more. But if you want to make a comment on here. We're mentioning about the community gardens and I think what Chris is basically alluding to is if a redevelopment proposal ever came forward for that property, which is as I understand owned by the fire district, that that certainly be interested in talking about the opportunity to establish a community that either on a town owned property or perhaps something that has a skis min on it. I don't know if that's compatible use with that necessarily, but creating something that does have long-term, you know, the chances that it'll be there and not subject to Well our rodeo Grounds we have plenty of for plans many years ago We had thoughts about a biodome actually back in the 80s stuff here So I guess I'm just inviting it if there ever was to be a recommendation on looking at some opportunities for that I appreciate I've had some informal discussions with ski co-even temporary installations in the summer and some of their parking lots and things that Is raised beds and then moved and well Then on the energy audits and upgrades I had a note here to make available to the residences We know what they already do. Yeah, okay. We've done one They already do. Yeah, okay. We've done one. Let's see. And just so you know that we could have put them all at the top because I think they were all important but we should have made so many things in a year. Right. Unmanageable. Now, on your attachment B, you have all the updates and successes and some of these, do you have any kind of follow up, is there going to be any kind of follow up to see if these are really successes? On a personal level, I tried to convert everything in my house to fluorescent low voltage lighting, but the problem has been for us is that the bulbs burn out. And they're expensive. You know? Well, but they have been. But they're coming right. You know, and I don't. And to be all totally honest, we were very appreciative of staff and and less producing this for us and Catherine and and providing it and it's a great point. I mean I have the same problem in my house with the floor essence. It's usually my experiences is it has a fixture issue depending on the design of the fixture relative to how hot the ballast gets. It's often what makes them blow out early. Yeah. It's often what makes them blow out early. Yeah, it would be nice to have that information to fail before I go to the expense of putting in. And the next thing will really be LEDs and forget about the toxic chemicals. Water-based paint for road striping. Now that strikes me as being a little bit bizarre because it rains and snow is around here. What's been the experience maybe hunt if you haven't you have any opinion on that? I tell you my only my personal non-scientific take on that is that if you have to spend money to clean all your water down at the sanitation the word goes out and you have to clean up a water-based product and maybe is 90% as good or maybe is 100% as good as opposed to a petroleum-based product you're addressing a couple issues there okay okay I'm just curious I saw that I'm just I'm just I'm just getting feedback. I mean, I'm not saying I like it. It's an unscientific analysis. And then finally, on the tarotment C, with the plastic beg steam, and I'm not ready to move forward with that at this point, I think there are lots of things we can be doing as a community moving forward. I think it's a moving part. I'm just not in favor of that particular plan at this time. I think we also felt it was very complicated. Philistically for a lot of people. Well, just as an aside, I did talk to the person that's putting together the petition to have a referendum down in basalt this past weekend. He was collecting signatures at the gas station. I was getting my son some skis and I spent a lot of time talking to him about the issues and you know it's greater than all of us and I would like to see the community as a whole way in on the issue rather than the five of us here and it's I think we need to involve more of the community and I have a real issue with enacting a fee versus a tax like we couldn't as a body enact a tax it would be you know against our state constitution Doug Bruce passed but the fee is something that we can add and I have a real problem going there with this particular issue at this time. I think just to respond since we're discussing it, the idea was that it came up with a three year plan or feeling was that if you were doing your education awareness campaign the first year, doing public outreach and maybe spending a minimal amount of revenue on that aspect. Hopefully by second year you're making good hits. So but when you get to the third year and you're looking at a plan or a fee, the issue sort of mood and you've already moved on. You just know I'm term limited in November or two. Well, I just want to get it beyond me. I had one other, three, one, though, just for my weekend skiing, I can tell you this about the difference between water based or your oil based things. If you're worth speaking around the mall at all this weekend, I could not get away from the smell of turpentine wherever I went. It was incredible. It was like, if I was down in the conference center, if I was up in this, you know, it was just incredible because there's a lot of painting going there. It was very intense. So, that's more of a resident using resources here. But it was incredible. People were saying, oh my god, what smells? What smells? It's probably just the painting going on in the buildings. But that's one of the benefits you can get for below-taxion paintings. OK. Did you? Carol saw your hand up back there. Carol, come on up to the mic over there. Feel free if you want to set up. Come on. Come on, come on, come on. It knows. All I was reiterating, but then you feel that we hit it is. Kill, go to end for the record. Is that with the plastic bag, I think we sort of took a three year approach, too, in realizing at some point something probably is going to happen one way or the other. But it gives us the opportunity to let, not so much make mistakes, but see how Aspen handles it, basalt, and we can come in with a little more knowledge than just jumping right in. And obviously it's a ski area. We can't just take all the plastic bags out without notice an education and the whole other thing. So it does give us time, as he said, to the education and the whole other thing. So it does give us time, as he said, to the education and the whole thing. But we still do want to, I think, address it. Well, I prefer go all plastic versus just a bag. He really want to get into at some point. But this isn't, there are so many other issues for this town council right now. It's not a priority for me. And I've heard the same thing going from John. Thank you. Have you asked, Ben? No. Nope, that's it. Thank you again very much. Yeah, you know, get over it. Everybody, you said here, you know, your committee is, there's a new group and we charge with helping us figure out the next steps to take. And so we do recognize that we need some support from you to help us with this. I do like getting directly to the bag thing. I think it is appropriate to have an educational program in place. I was initially saying the same thing you were, that this is like a Dixie Cup for a force fire. By not all people who use those bags from multiple uses and don't buy other plastic bags. So, you know, it's gonna be a community discussion. And when I met with the other communities to talk about this and they said, let's all do it together. I was like, I think it's gonna be a hard sell and so on as to do that. But, you know, as for all the reasons people have spoken to. But I think educating people and saying, hey, we want you to buy your own reusable bag to go to the grocery store, Bethel, places that you would normally go and expect to get a plastic bag, Bethel, places that you would normally go and expect to get a plastic bag, you know, do some assignments, just say, hey, you know, we're not going to start putting a fee on there right now. We're not going to bat at this moment because if there are good things and I don't want to, you know, dissuade people from coming to a resort where, you know, they now have to figure out something different unless we're supplying hundreds of thousands of bags to everybody that come here with a snowmatch build on the side, which could be great marketing also. But you guys have put together a report and I think Markies, right, to some extent, we need to have continual discussions with our committees, which we sometimes are difficult to do, whether it be semi-annually, I'm not sure. I don't know. Yeah, maybe too much. I think that we should do more of those. I would like to say that we do that with you guys and planning commission and FAB. Just sit down and have these discussions. So I think that's a good thing to do for a good community communication. Because it's not just us sitting up here making these decisions we have to hear from everybody. Specifically, I think that you are a short term and long term views and reports are appropriate to move forward with and I'll be excited to work with you everybody on that. So I accept the report and what else do we need to do? I know staff would just like to say you've picked a very diverse and talented, intelligent group of people. It's been a joy working with them and I think they're going to have been, we'll continue to produce great things. And I assume that's a consensus of counsel to look at at least two times during the year, to schedule meetings. And I know something Bill and I have been chatting about more in terms of scheduling updates with your boards. So, that's really great. We're going to work session with somebody that we can do those things. Well, I wouldn't mind getting updates, maybe not a full discussion with you, but updates is part of our regular managers report. I think would be very appropriate. You know, what steps you take them, what if you looked at? I'd really like to know what you think about the Joe Steve wildlife report. You know, those are kind of things that I think we can get outside of a regular meeting cycle. Yeah, and taking advantage of the resources like you alluded to with the website and things like that. You know, hopefully if you guys are out there in the community and putting this in people's consciousness, we'll already know what you're doing. And so that's a great thing. That really is. Great job. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anything else you guys, anything else you want to hear from us, or what you need? Chris, from us right now? I think that was a great start. Okay. I agree. I mean, I think we're up the opinion that we try to come up. We're up the opinion that we want to be in steady and consistent communication because all of these issues are important enough that they deserve time on the table. Very good. Okay. Thanks again. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Bob. Thanks. Okay. Okay, thanks again. Thank you. Thank you, Bob. Thanks, thank you. Okay, before we move on to the item, let's take a 10 minute break. Sure. Moving on. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to do 8. Resolution number 34, series 2011. Solid waste fees. Mr. Dresser. Any questions? Do we have to? 2011, solid waste fees. Mr. Dresser. Any questions? I don't know. Do we have to? No. Move the resolution. Second. Jason Motion, seconded by Markie Butler. Any other discussion or questions? Yes. John Wilkinson. Are there any other past due accounts out there other than this that we need to be addressing? Because I was surprised to see the dollar amounts associated with this. I mean, are there any other town accounts that residences are required to pay in that are behind as these? Or is this the only one? I'm not aware of anything else. You mean other types of accounts? Yeah. Yeah. Exist the only thing we really bill for. Okay. For services. I mean, obviously we have other building permits and thank the people coming in. This is the only one we directly bill to homeowners. Yes. Okay. That's I just wanted to make sure. There was a much longer list, but we're to this and you've made some comments and coming contacts and these people are left So this was a we started this process. This was a much longer list. We've been working on it over this years There's a couple of past views that rolled in from last year. We've offered payment arrangements rolled in from last year. We've offered payment arrangements, saving on the interest. We have been diligent, and now it's come to the time where we're at the end of the year. It's time to certify those for collection vis-a-vis the tax bills. And being down to 10 people from where we started is monumental. I give credit to Julian public works in Jim Rasky in finance. They've been working this pretty hard and taking a lot of phone calls and taking some heat as a matter of fact. And so we gave him a drop dead date in the last letter of October 31st and some responded to that drop dead and some did not. And these are the ones that did not. And it's our recommendation that you utilize the method provided by law to collect these delinquent fees. Yes. Do we have to notice these fees at every time, I mean, thinking forward because this will come up again and we'll have some other people on this list. Can we take care of this now or do we have to do it like we are now in and- Annually? Yeah. Create a resolution or can you set a mechanism in place that if the X date they go to the tax bills? There's no administrative process we could say now. John, anybody who's six months overdue, do this. No. Because property bills are only collected once a year. Right. There are, besides these 10 accounts, there are no delinquencies. So you can't certify someone that's delinquent on their next year's bill until they're delinquent. And that has to be an action by the council. Yes. Okay, that was. Okay, that's my question. Thanks for interpreting Bill. You're welcome. So here and there, any other questions? Those in favor of Resolution 34 or series 2011, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Those opposed? That passes unanimously. There was that Aver Wilkinson? That was Aver, Butler. Thank you. Moving on, I am nine, resolution 33, series 2011 establishing town council meeting dates for 2012. So moved. Second. Motion by Markie, second by Jason Aver. Discussion, Mr. Wilkinson. Did we check all the appropriate religious calendars in looking at this? Yes. We did not heard a public disclosure of each and every council members religious faith, so it's very hard to check those things. I guess we did pull out the major court's good unknown and national holidays of Jewish faith. Very good. I sent emails Ryan and Muslim. I sent emails to Fred and Jason out of courtesy for some Jewish holidays. Otherwise Fred gave me his four that he needed off and they were all like on Thursday or Fridays or days that we didn't have meetings. Very good. Thank you very much. And just so you notice, I mean make sure, because we always have conflict after we pass this resolution, make sure you look and see on those dates that I have provided to change to the second and the fourth meeting versus the- January? January, January, July and October. I'm proposing that we change the meeting days to the second and the fourth meetings of the month to avoid having to change meetings to Tuesday after major holidays. But it still allows sufficient time between each council meeting. I think that works well. Then the only day we have to have a meeting on a Tuesday would be the Monday, holiday, February 21st. Would be Tuesday, February 20th. I'm sorry, the holidays, February 20th, we would have that Tuesday, February 21st. And we wonder why- No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no What's the deal about having a meeting on day after the major holiday? Why would we not want to do that? You really want me to say that in public? No, I'm sorry. Yes. No, you didn't. No, there is no concern. It's just like on Labor Day, people come back after three or four day weekends and on a Tuesday between staff and council. Now it just seems to be a long night for them. First day back, same with the 4th of July. We're just looking at past history and- These past history this morning. Trying to make it easier. And is that participation? Personally, I have no problem meeting the normal with days. But if a majority of the council wants to do that. I think it's preferable to shift it to the second and fourth just so we don't have to- I just let you know that we've only done it where you can maintain a minimum of two weeks between the meetings. We have a shift to them so you get crammed into the end of that week. Start off on the first. That's why in February, we're still doing it the day after the three-day holiday because there's not enough room to get back. Exactly. I think you've done a very nice job being sensitive to every once in a while. It's wrong. It's wrong. It's right. Consideration for how tired we are. Well, in, for example, in January, I mean, we come back. The second is our holiday here for town employees. So you're becoming back to work on the third when you have that whole, you have five Mondays. Like why not spread them out? Well, I'm just thinking, you know, for staff and stuff, it might be a hardship, but generally, you know, you get them packets out and we just have the meeting and it's not like we're finding it. It's not really a hardship for staff. It's just been historical that they usually are longer meetings and sometimes people room gets. That's fine. Does the health have any other feelings? There's another reason, too, Billion. A lot of times, both council and staff like to extend the three-day weekend by a day before or a day afterwards, which puts you at a disadvantage to maximizing the holiday that you get. And it also does. And quite often, people, more so, council have, I'll guess, that interrupt. And it also does, when we do on a Tuesday, we can never be live because it interferes with the city council meetings because ours are on Monday. That's mine in convenience for me. But understand that, let's move forward. And all those in favor of resolution 33 33 please signify by saying aye. Aye. Those opposed? Moving on, I'm manager report. Just wanted to verify the topics for the discussion we are trying to schedule for with the marketing board and maybe first just on dates. We have discussed December 7th for that special meeting. They are not all available on the 7th. They are available all available on the 5th and they're also available on the 12th. I think a meeting on the 7th would still work for them. David Perry is out on the date. If that's the date you will you choose to stay with. They'll kind of download with him and make sure he has an idea he has to get conveyed to you. But again right now we are scheduled for the 7th starting at approximately one o'clock and going for the afternoon. Is that? I told you that there is a planning. Oh, we would stop it for. I think we'll be done by that. Well, that is, yeah, the planning question starts it for us. We'd want to try to be out, give the room ability time to get cleaned up and that kind of stuff. So 9-5-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3- your regular meeting, you will have a full meeting on that day. And I'm more into the seventh of the 12th. I've got the seventh on my calendar from one to five. I have enough problems getting here by four as you all notice. And what's our agenda on the 12th? Is that that's a pretty light and that's a real agenda. I won't be here. Yeah, the bus market won't be here. No. Yeah, go ahead. Get some 12. You're No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. And he is EOS, what is the rate of return on expenditure, the ROE report? Well, he will, again, have some thoughts in terms of how to do that. And that'll be in a business plan as a metric that would be applied next year. The business plan they're working on is, and again, this is a product to be clear of the marketing board. It's a pretty straightforward products that would go with that stakeholder report. So it's a pretty simple plan, it's just simply talking about, here's what they want to achieve in 2012, their goals and their measurements. What was this supposed to also include the FAB? I think you expressed interest, and I wanted to verify that you expressed interest and also having FAB members members participate if they would like. The idea in my mind is that this discussion I think is going to foster more discussion. I think if we get the FAB included in our first discussion, it will help us move forward. So there is an interest in having inviting FAB to participate. Sure. I'm sorry. What time was that again? One o'clock. One o'clock. Are we getting granted? I don't. I don't have any desires not to have this on TV. Right. This needs to be a good discussion. And then as an agent participating. And a few things kind of within this. I heard an interest in reviewing the history of the board. And also with that, or in addition to that, reviewing kind of where we stand with sales tax, maybe doing a little comparison of how we stand with sales tax. And we'll also in that acknowledge, I think there was a specific question of what's the impact. If you brought us under 10% in terms of total sales tax and we'll acknowledge that. Also, I think really what will turn out to be a major point of discussion will be the governance structure. The things we've quietly non-actually steamed up did a survey through CAST just looking at how to mountain communities fund marketing and special events. We're going to use that and augment that and the interesting thing that we're going to find through that is the only other community that has a town department is Frisco. They have a budget of around $300,000. Every other community, most communities do have some sort of tax base funding mechanism, but they will have a chamber. And so that chamber will come to the council, they'll present their business plan, they will say we need to ask for an appropriation of X, and typically you'll see what is contemplated in our code is a quarterly report back in terms of the results. So I think you'll have a significant discussion. I wanted to ask would that be valuable to kind of see those points? Absolutely because I was going to ask you for because I'm all about what do other people do versus what do we do and how good are we at it? So we've got that. Okay good. Yeah because I think it's a marquee right. You know this has been going on but eight years now we've been doing it this way. And the question in my mind is, is this doing the right thing that we always planned on the way we looked at it eight years ago? Or is there some change in the model or something that, you know, we're going the right track without just doing the same thing year after year? Well, and the other part of that question, Bill, is this is how the other communities are doing it now. Has anyone gone to school with what our model is? I mean, I don't know what it is. You're going to find pros and cons. And again, our model, I don't think we're quite, and this is one of the recommendations and one of the things I think you'll hear from the marketing board. We're not really doing the process as per the code with the idea that you have a nomination process, particularly for the restaurant lodging in retail representatives. It's often the reality with that board is trying to get somebody to raise their hand. So you'll hear from them, maybe we do have a lodging advisory committee and they do meet, but trying to create the equivalent with retail in a restaurant group has just been formed. So there is something more we could do to create accountability between our business community and this fit and with the structure we have based on the code we have. We just thought it might be valuable to look at all the various governance structures. Yeah, what's working, what's not working? Yeah. What needs to be tweaked? Great. OK. So did we cover all the topics? I think so. You had my hand to discuss. And again, I suggest governance would be the toughest. So yeah, lengthy. Yeah, 2.5 hours. We're going to try to get this down. I don't know if you'll get it done. I think this will be a start of a conversation. I think you're right on this. Unless you want to commit some more time. I'm sorry. I had this from one to four. Four. Oh, so we're going one to four. Well, I think we're hearing ideally. We're going to go with 30 to turn the room over. I'm not sure. That's just the regularly scheduled planning commission. I don't know what's on the agenda. I can find out from Chris and Phil, let's just see. I'd like to be able to, you know, do as much as we can in the time we have. No, there's no meeting with you. You know, the whole of the series. It's possible we can do planning commission in a small conference. Oh, okay. So good. Okay. Good. I just have to throw it out so you know the wet blanket that you can be sometimes Okay, thank you very much led wrestler let us know if you want us to do anything else with the sister city program You have the schedule in front of you as to what this one has a hand up. Yeah, I have an update for you on that I met with Don Sheeley who's the president of Aspen Sister Cities. And we discussed how the Katsu Yamaha connection originated, and it goes back to prior mirrors of Aspen, of Bennett, and Bill Sterling tried to create Sister City with that. But they had already had a Sister City in Japan. And so they've been not wanting to have a second, well they can't. According to their charter, they can only have one sister city in any one country. And so Don was suggesting that right now probably wouldn't be a good time for even them to take a look at another sister city. And unless we have the resources and motivation on our board and staff that we should probably send a letter back to Katzeyama saying that we appreciate your interest. We respect that you would like to have a sister city relationship with us, but at this point we really don't have the energy or funding to support that effort in our community. The Esponcister City is really the Esponcno-Massister City. And they're talking about changing the name to include snowmass in that and they're going to work towards that. So I feel our participation from snowmass village is huge. My son got to go to Queenstown, my daughter got to go to Chamini. I know a lot of the kids in this community get to go to our other sister cities. And I'd like to support their connection and have that committee actually be part of what we do in our community. And he is asking if there's any funding available to help support their scholarship program. They always ask for funding, don't they? I know, but there are a lot of kids in our community that get to participate in those. And I would certainly like to take a stab at including some funding for the scholarship program they have. And I just didn't arrest the email from Don. They can fly for a grant right now, is's cycle. All right, lots of books. Good. Okay. That is my update for Sister City. So unless there's a motivation from the rest of the council, I think we should descend to the letter saying thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, John. I also talked with, and I think I referenced it last time with another person very involved, sister, city, and he would echo. It was Wolfginch. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And he echoes it. If we're going to do anything, join and participate with Aspen and Aspen's Nome is, and then figure out if, if and how we might do it, it would help. Fun. Because it's expensive. It is. Okay. Sounds like that's the consistent of the council. I think so. Okay. If the outside and the rest is managed as report. Only other thing I wanted to acknowledge. And this is informational for this group. But with the GID budget budget that was passed, we had the additional hours starting on January 1st. We have a little bit of additional savings in the GID budget and we could provide that additional hour just to tad before Christmas week, potentially on the 19th. Well, good. That probably be a good thing because I guess the budget we discussed was to start this January 1st, so that our additional and as rest sort of brought up today that, you know, being Christmas, maybe we'd like to try to do that earlier. And I thought we should bring it up tonight to see what councils. I think it's a great idea. Thoughts were. I agree. It's like a no brain. Yeah, good. Great. And then finally, as you know, the foreclosure went through last Wednesday. We have heard from, I guess, the owner. Now, maybe it's still technically the receiver and that they have a period of time here where there potentially could be an appeal. But the understanding is they'll have some understanding of whether a developer comes to the top in the month of December. I don't think there should be any expectation that there is another sale in the near future, but they will have some sense of whether a developer has a deal that the banks accept, but I still think it'll take longer for that to be worked out and Contract to be negotiated if that in fact happens. So with this for closure process We don't see any real estate transfer tax at this level if it gets sold again by the by the bank People who now own it will there be a Transfer on that sale or is that get no more? No, it's not exempt. Thank you. Any other questions? I get to agenda's happy to a couple things I'd want to throw out about night of the movie. Let's look at next agenda. For December 5th. Again, we have Aspen's Key Company coming. They'll be giving you an overview of how the summer perform. Since they're getting more and more enthusiastic about the summer, again as you are aware, Senator Udalls will pass to that. Makes things a little bit clear about what can be pursued in the summer, bill passed that makes things a little bit clear about what can be pursued in the summer and then they'll give you an update on the the winter and how it's looking. You've had on the list for staff a follow up on the sign code will be prepared for that. We would be interested in potentially having two more weeks on the land use piece. What we want to present to you is a list of ideas, some of which we've received through a survey of customers building code and planning customers. But give you some thoughts on, again, how to make what I call the simple things simple. So we're creating a menu for that, like to vet that a little bit more, and also acknowledge, too. You part of that is we do have an application in for the silver tree, and just remind you now with that application in that X part A rules would apply. We're still going through that application. I can't articulate what the appropriate process is. Chris Conrad will be working with John on that. There is the possibility that this could be an administrative review, but I can't tell you that at this point. That's an application for renovation. I don't remodel. Does that mean that some total of it snowed? Yeah. No new square footage. No new F1. Kind of describe it very simplistically. Is you have the existing building? they're moving some Lego blocks within it Joe one of the questions I have on that is I've heard from a couple of business owners is that they're evicting them prior to the end of the ski season and I don't know if we have any leverage or over say site on that but I mean to ask a business to vacate in the beginning of March, which is really the bread and butter of the winter season, I think if we have any way to negotiate that for the tenants up there, I think that would be worth it. I heard this same concern. Again, it's not our purview to be in the middle of leases. We certainly have the ability to require, and that's part of our responsibility to require construction management plan, which talks about when construction can start and conditions around it. I did ask that, and the representative of the owner said, no, that is not accurate. There is a date of March 15th however there is an automatic extension with that that takes you through the ski season. So they've essentially told us their intent is not to do that but you know from a construction standpoint we do have the ability to ensure that our public areas and spaces are not impacted. And that'll be required as part of this. And pass the word along, it'll be nice to make sure we have our business throughout the state. That hasn't passed along, but we certainly want to maintain our economic viability always, but particularly through the end of the season. Jason. Jason? It's just made me think of another topic that I've heard of that I have a little bit of concern with and I wonder if staff does or obviously we haven't seen it or talked about it so there must not be a planning issue but this idea of central arrival point on daily lane at Snumas in or have. That is something Chris is investigating at this point. Just seems like from the standpoint of using daily lane as that purpose doesn't seem like the greatest idea with how impacted that kind of the initial inquiries that have been made. They're trying to change their business model by actually meeting the gas stat kind of their accommodation or that they would have pre-check in so their intent is to minimize gas coming to that point so it is something the planning department is aware of and taking a look at. So at this point are they planning going forward with that central arrival check-in? I believe that was an instance where that change occurred and we found out about it, which initiated an investigation. And so the timing on that, and are we going to have that completed in time to do something about it for this winter? What is the... They've moved. What's that? Who's we? The town. The town. The town doesn't have authority to do some of those. That's my question. We'd what's that who's we the town Town doesn't have authority to do some of those that's my question from a planning standpoint Approval standpoint is that a permitted use is that within the yes That's so what is the investigation? Looking into trying to determine if it's gonna be an unacceptable increase in Parking and traffic on daily lane. How is that different from what I just asked? You ask if it was a permitted use at an office for check-in is a permitted use. Okay. An office that goes well beyond the carrying capacities of a non-artial roadway is something else. It becomes a nuisance. So we're investigating. That's what they're doing. Okay. I'll report back to you at some point. Maybe. I'm one that we got a heads up on. I think it's something we should be investigating. That's it. Okay. Adults on the managers or this agenda. You're going to take off the land use, right? Right. And move that. That's fine. Move to the 19th. Okay. 12th again. It's pretty straightforward. 19th. So the fifth meeting was pretty much ski company. Correct. College. College. Yeah. And the 19th would be Heat Trap is planning to be here. I have notified them of your expectations. I wanted to make sure that they weren't the only board that is talking to you and I assured not to be chatting with a variety of your boards. Hunt will also be here with simply it'll be a pretty and I sure have been chatting with a variety of your boards. Hunt will also be here with simply, it will be a pretty straightforward report memo that will simply talk about suggested next steps with each one of those high priority CIP actions. The other things that David Peckler and I are talking about as the timing of an update to you on history of the OTC and the West Village. And we want to make sure that happens before there's a call for a subcommittee. Well, is there a bit of a, have we put that together yet? Because that, we know staff will be meeting next week. I mean, this would be the, basicallyE, basically it's City, County, and our staff meeting kind of talking through that, making sure we all heard the same thing. And I think we did hear that there was now an interest in doing a subcommittee. One of the things we're preparing for you is a little bit of a historical look at where money has spent since the beginning of EOTC, where is it come from? I think that'll be interesting. Randy Reedy from Aspen put together a pretty comprehensive history on the intent behind EOTC and will simply bring that out. And then there were several references to what Michael Manchester said or didn't say. And he's kind of shared his perspective on that and We'll see if we can figure out an appropriate way to share that with you So we just want to prepare you before a subcommittee meets and certainly before the next DOTC meeting So they're prepared very good I mean just a little concerned with City of Aspen putting together the history of it. And I think we need to make sure that the facts are correct. We'll bet it. Well, and take a look, go back and look at this nomass son and what was reported in our community at that time because it was contentious, but I supported it because of the arrival of the Kansas Center that was part of the plan. So I just want to make sure that we're balanced on any kind of report that's. The financial piece is something we're putting together for you, recognizing questions you might ask. I think Randy put together all the historical kind of the ballots and the public pieces So we'll certainly go through that before we present it and again, I'm sure we'll have a little bit of debate and you might have some different recollections of history revisionist history is us Okay Any else? No, I'm not on council comments, committee reports, calendars. Um, adjacent, start with you tonight. My comment is I just love looking across this table and seeing all these iPads and no big, fat notebooks full of wasted paper on the table. So thanks for making that happen. It's great. Thank you. Marky? Once I figure out how to use this thing all the way. Okay. So I'm going to go to a tutorial. Okay. Regarding iPads and stuff. Did you get a stuff? Okay. I think I'm a styles. Also feel free. I mean, don't worry about the tires. I'll get the tires and Ron and Barb have kicked the tires on this and there's some additional bells and whistles and. Yeah, that's the point. The last one thing I was bringing it up is I think that we need to open the doors to allow people put their own information in there and let them use it to their full extent other than just as a paperweight because I know the first thing came out said when we can't add anything. Part of that is because we don't have your credit cards, stuff the Apple store, that you can put your own apps in. Because at that point, you will be using it more than just as a reader of your council packet. You'll be carrying with you and taking advantage of the tour it can be used. Because it's easy to strip this and clean it once you're done with it. It's not a big problem to clean it. But Bill, it's not for personal use. It's for town use. But it's time to say that, Rhonda. But that's not what I wanted to use it for. I specifically believe if you're trying to reduce our paper output to make us use these, we also need to have the opportunity to use it on our daily use. Whatever that may be. And I think that needs to be the policy of this council Feel I'm right there and and maybe that maybe you should purchase them I was thinking about that too and just on what you said is that maybe there's an opportunity at the end of your term to either buy that piece equipment or As you said It's easier because you've been better unit. You're not going to be four years old. Yeah, they're last that long, but the same time. You need to be able to use it. And I understand what I'm just saying that's for public council use, but you're not going to be using it. I mean, it's something that email will come to you and you'll be able to deal with it. So I believe it's appropriate to allow you with your own. When you run out of memory are you buying your own? I have to take, Ron you can take stuff off. You'll have to go up and be going on asking a question. It's up to be taken off. Just asking questions. I'm not challenging. I'm asking a question. It could be taken off. These are details we can work out. You don't need to argue about online. I'm just understanding that the history of EOTC will use all the memory on this. That is Ron's practical concern. That's the memory. She's correct through it. I'm asking a simple question and getting yelled at. No, no. I'm just suggesting that with councils to say that we would like to be able to put our applications on these things. Well, at that point it's better used. For example, I represent our council on the raft abort. And I get their packets and I've gone paperless on that. I've been using this for that, but there are applications I need to be able to have on this. If I'm just going to use this, such as Google Earth. I mean, that is one tool. There's something I've been running into places where I can't go any further. And it is town business when I'm at these other meetings. You're taking a look at it. You'll be using it. You know, I agree with Billing. We're not a majority that does agree with me or how you two over here if you know I'm in the learning curve guys so I asked for us how to do a few other things on there and I got to do this credit card stuff you know I'll I'm just suggesting that we loosen up the yes and I think that's totally reasonable. I like the work. I want our work computers. And I'd ask you to just have to put your credit card on. Right. And come up. There should be this post over those things. Nope. And maybe come up with a formula for depreciation and if we want to buy it out at the end of our terms that there anybody wants to do that at the end of their time there's there's an option to do that I tried trading it to my son for his notebook And you wouldn't go for it. Okay, so let's do it. Let's work on that Other than that do we have an idea trash containers before you slow down I just want you to know that these are the property of the community. Right. As such, any information on them is subject to an open record request. Right. Turn it in. I'm good. That would be a good choice. Where do I have to come in? Well, let's go to my next question. Next time it was extremely helpful. And I was reading the policy and went through all the policy stuff. Are we supposed to sign that policy and give it back to you? Wouldn't be valid anymore. Okay. We need to change that. So we need to re-look, isn't the policy? Because it said they wouldn't, the policy says they wouldn't use it for any personal use. So yes, the policy, I was really careful about that policy when I was in the DR. And I had to go through my AOL. No, I didn't have to. Well, kind of. A long story short. But the point was, I didn't want to misuse it against policy. And I forgot. So I'll make a new one up. It'll have to be revised. OK. Thank you, Ronda. OK. What I was getting at is the dumpster up on Farley Road. Yes. Is there some basic painting or something we can do to clean that thing up, put a new, you know, $500 roof on it or something that, because it does, I was up there, I was looking at it. I get to do that all the time. And it's, you know, I got to do it to my dumpster in the pines, and I got to do it to the dumpster on the divide, but that one is a town dumpster, and I know we don't want to spend any unnecessary money. But it would be an eye sore. It also would take a whole lot of money to do it. Just to out there, if Hunt were here and Dave, they would say that building's ready to fall down, and I think Marke would say the same thing. And again, I think Marquis would say the same thing. And again, I think over the years, even before I was here, there was an argument about how to also put a bus stop there. And I don't think the town ever specifically articulated how to do that. Right now, Haunt is going through a process looking at our solid waste collection. That would be something else that would be coming to you. And we have not moved forward. That was budgeted at one time to take it down and rebuild it. And kind of in 2009, I think that was taken out of the budget. And so the thought is to get through this policy discussion first before investing more money in it. But again, it does not look good. I'm thinking less than 2,000 bucks just to put some new, you know, thinking about a painting. Paintings and trims, you know, the roof material look, I think you put new shingles on it for less than you know five hundred bucks Would you still want to do that even if I think the less than two thousand bucks, I'm not looking at reburbing the whole thing But I think that there could be something It's so bad the doors when you go open and you have to kind of left them to pull them open I mean it's the special well, that's just part of the actual hinges. I had to replace I had to spend like,000 on my dumpster and the pines to do that. I guess the question is, would you like to invest in it, even if potentially you may conclude that they need to go away completely and we go to a different system? I don't know that we're going to get there, but I do believe that they may have to be redone. I don't think that's going to happen in the next year. And I think you could invest $1,000 in the next year. Well, this is how I look at it. There's no transportation services up on Faraway. Absolutely none. We spend a lot of money supporting other transportation. Why can't we begin to think about the folks that live over there? They don't have availability of some of our town services. Build a decent dumpster. That thing is going to be 30 years old. Yeah, I'm not into rebuilding the dumpster. I'm just into really face, left and paint. Oh, could I let the public works director know what your desire is? And then you should buy a desire and make sure the rest of the council is there. So let me ask the council. Yeah, I'd say come back with a proposal that gets us functionality with the minimum investment. Well, I don't know. The wise, I'm at the point of you, but to carry that on over, but I want to do something that will be sustainable for at least five to ten years, that thing. Well, I think in about two years, at least we're going to have an answer. What's in the next year? Next year we'll have an answer. If we're going to continue or do something different. Or do the trash containers on this uh-huh? Up far away down in all that snow. All those discussions. Yeah. I can't wait to see that. I have no idea. I'm gonna have you haul your trash. But I think it's okay to go ahead and take a look at to the system. It's tough if it's in there. So. Thank you. And um look at all the dirt inside swing the doors. Oh yeah, I see I put super minor weekly in getting the dirt out of mine. So it is something that I have to do because the town doesn't do it because it is a owned by the subdivision. So it's a little bit different. Um, other than that, thanks to the students coming up here this week, everybody got to have a great time. And you know, the town's closed Friday. The other thing, the audiences are closed, obviously transportation police, plows are all right. So give it a great season. Well, see you a little bit, John. Yeah, just a couple of updates. I've been going to all the open house in meetings regarding the droste property. And I've attended the horse council meetings. And I've done the open space meetings here. We had an open house last week. It was kind of lightly attended as it turned out. It was a Bronco jet skate. No. So it wasn't as- It was a good name. Yeah. The county has applied for a state trails grant of about $150,000. That they hope to use next summer on the property, developing a signing program, Russ is one of them. And I wanted to ensure whatever we do, we work in coordination with them on our trail systems and our signs in SNL Mass Village. So we're not going from one jurisdiction to another and all of sudden, the different kinds of signs. We've heard Laum clear from the question people on what they need for access and we're talking about Creating a trail for them up through the cemetery around the cemetery connecting up to the high point on the drosty The dogs are definitely well they haven't been adopted yet, but there's a good chance that the bayonon dogs on the drosy property will remain But I sort of out the idea of possibly allowing them on the North Rim section of the rim trail, which is up until this year, people have been taking their dogs up there. Hunt Walker did some research and found out that he should have been banned up there for the past 20 years. And so the key enacted to ban this year on dogs, but I think there's a movement of foot to take a look at reopening in that area for dogs. So which brings me to another point because we talked about this in the budget item and we originally discussed having a 30 or $40,000 amount for trails next summer. And is the way I understand it, that I got taken out of our budget. Because of, can you give us an update? Because with the investment that we're going to be doing on the county side up there, I'd hate to see our trails go into further disrepair than they are currently. First, with the budget process, we did talk about that. And again, the number was between 40 to 50 to respond to the level of service you were talking about. At the same time, we had just found out that we were not getting a $100,000 bus grant in our recommendation to you, which we thought you accepted was that in the early part of the year, we would come back to you with an update on revenue. Hopefully you will be over on revenue, and we're trending in that way. And again, go through the trails program with you in more detail. So we'd be giving you two things. One, a more detailed game plan on trail maintenance and trail construction. I'm kind of coordinated in understanding what the county's doing. And my understanding is with the grant, they are pursuing that would also be beneficial to the town and some of the linkages to the Drozdi property from town land. But that's where we left it with you was looking at revenue and then looking and bringing to you a trails game plan At that time again probably would be in the February March time frame after we received an audit Very good. I just don't want it to drop off the radar That's our anticipation is if the money's there and we have some unanticipated revenue that's kind of what we've heard from you that would be the first thing to put be put back in so that's why from an operational standpoint if that happens we're going to be ready to respond to that quickly. Right because I think there those will be some discussions that we will be looking at what can we you know reenact and redo and add back to our, where do we do business? I mean, we have to look at the reserves again, I mean, to do a minimal amount of work is something and we need to have that discussion at that point if what you're gonna present back to us isn't sufficient. Okay? Oh, you mean if we didn't have unanticipated writing? Sure, that's always a decision of yours You know at this point we hit our contingency hard and we're trying to bring it back Very good ADS for Council comments Is there a motion for a German? What's this thing that's sitting in front of us? This is what Chris dropped off just to read. Oh Jason made a motion to adjourn. Absolutely. And we're going to be again. But John, welcome to the seconded. All those in favor, please sign up if I say aye. Aye. We urge you, thank you. you you