After four I'm already We are on the tube. So I'd like to call the order of the Summess Village Town Council for January 23, 2012. First item we have is roll call, please, Miss Runda. Here, boy now. Here. Welcome, son. Here. Butler. Here. Aver. Here. Butler. Here. Aver. Here. Okay. Here. Second item we have tonight is for public non-agenda items. Are there any? Please raise your hand. Step to the microphone. No one's moving. Okay. We'll move on. Council updates. Fred. So what's you? Last week I attended a core meeting. A core board meeting. I suppose the most memorable thing to come out of it is that Nathan Ratlitch is resigning. He's got a full scholarship to the Woodrow Wilson School at Princeton to get a master's in some sort of environmental policy program. That's great. And in the running for his successor, some guy named Haibir. No, miss. Do you have a first name? Very good. Thank you. You should do it. Okay. So, welcome to me. Yeah, I hope everyone had a chance to sample our fine snowfall yesterday. You want to wear another? Yeah, and either shoveling it or pushing it or skiing it, which is great. The Nordic trails are all open and all set and groomed. I skied the Alcreek into Aspen yesterday, and it's a wonderful ski. But after this recent death on Burnt, Malena brought back some bad memories of my own excursion. And it was, you know, if you're going to go to the back country, side country, please ski responsibly, be with a friend, take probes, take shovels. You know, you can do it safely, but right now the snow pack is just so brittle out there. Just a warning to everyone. Just please take it easy. I just don't like having unnecessary deaths in our community. So my condolences go out to the families of the people that have been lost. Hopefully we can prevent anyone else going forward. Thank you, John. Marky? I really don't have anything, but I'm jealous, John. At least you get it ski. You can ski with one pole, can't you? No, not with a total shoulder, absolutely. Not yet, not yet. Not, I'm fact, I'm just the entire season. Jason. Um, last weekend was down in Denver. Actually, I guess, meeting with the new Ice Age nonprofit group at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science, Bob Purpose was also there as well as Susan Hamley. We had a great day and a tour around the museum and talking about mission and kind of had to move forward with that group and that effort. I was appointed to the executive committee as the secretary and treasurer of that group along with John Rigny, the Aspen Scheme company and who will be the president of that organization and Ian Miller from the Denver Museum. So moving forward on mission and identity and kind of a working plan to go forward. And I will keep you updated as that progresses. Yeah, this is what we might, we hear progress report in a quarter or six months just to keep the community in. Yeah, I would think on the sooner end of that range, we're meeting in the first week of February with the entire board again to talk about moving forward and have the NOVA special coming out National Geographic special also in February 1st. Are we going to get a lot of newspaper coverage? Thank you. Okay. So that's my up to you. I also have a large event coming in March. Great. I guess we were talking a little bit about that Nova thing. Do we want to do anything here in town hall? Is there anything else going on with that? Why Jason brought it up? We did talk about it the meeting that Jason's referring on last Friday and we were thinking do we do a community event and it turns out that those volunteers who would be most interested in coming here, they're invited to a party at the museum on that same night. So I thought was to defer it and make sure everybody knows to watch it on TV. John talked about maybe opening up chambers and having it run here. You can watch it from home or from here. And we talked about putting it on to March 22nd to make that Dr. Johnson and things that we're doing a bigger event. Good, yeah. I was thinking it might be better to watch at your house than the big screen here. Okay. Let's move on to item number four, presentation of the business plan for the marketing special events and group sales. Mr. Quigley and Mr. Purvis, see in the room. So, I guess something that, you know, we have talked about a little bit. You guys have worked very hard. Looks like I'm putting in together some good information that we've made a few additions. And I'll guess how preface that the say I've been hearing through some people in the community that are kind of concerned. But the council is trying to get to involved in some of these things that you guys have been doing all along. And I just like to say that, you know, I think that there is a level of involvement that the council is looking for. But the majority of it, I want to, you know, at least from my seat, I'd like to tell you that, you know, we appreciate all the time and energy you all put into it. And I don't think we want to get into a micro management. We don't know enough to be managing the micro stuff at this. But so I just want to say thank you and try to put some concerns at ease for certain people, a lot of people that I've talked to in the last month or so since we've been discussing this. So I'd like to let you guys move forward. Thank you. What we've done here with this marketing special events, business plan as we incorporated the conversations we had, when we met with Council, and there was some input from the community as well. Those comments were incorporated in the document that we had presented previously. Primarily they were David's, Workowski's competitive comparison. We've added the strategic content to that. We also emphasize the goals that we discussed with you. And I believe that touches on the changes that we made upon this. Something Bob? Just in the strategic context with the way you mentioned it. Yes. Yes. And then the last part was setting on dates for our timelines for meeting with council in person, and then also submitting to you updates. In talking with Susan Hamley, we decided on the last council meeting in May, because that gives us sufficient time to have all the information from the winter. We'll have all the tax reports, and we'll have a true scoreboard we can present to you. And then the next one, what was it Susan? November. November. The last meeting of November. That will give us more meaningful data to share with you versus mid-season. You'll still get the written report. But when we have most of the data or all of the data from the season, it'll tell a better story for you. You know, one of the questions that we had was this honoation of the ROE. Would we see a report on the ROE in May or no? Yes, because we made the decisions already for this summer and we ran the events through the ROE to be able to confirm those decisions. And do we know if the science behind the methodology is solid? I believe it's a solid as you can get. Yeah, well, you know, I don't know if we've been able to test it out, theory works, et cetera. Just a question. So I think if we go into May, we see it. We ought to have a conversation about does it work? Does it not? Sure. Of course that's what we would do anyway. Sure. It worked for all the big events, which we're defining as over a $40,000 net expense, and we ran through it, and it worked for all of them. So that's why you saw events didn't come off. They changed a little bit to be even more effective, but they didn't come off. Okay, but again, you would be applying that to last year's data. We did it for the last years and so then we did going forward. We did the sea of, obviously, we haven't had summer events. Right. Okay. Fred. I am not interested in micromanaging, but that'd be perfectly clear. That's what the board is charged with. I am, however, charged with the responsibility of accountability. The code says we are supposed to review a business plan and approve it. We are supposed to review your budget and approve it. Let me deal with the budget first. I don't know anything about marketing and don't pretend to. But when I don't know something, I try to go to people much smarter than me who do. And over the course the last couple of months I've gone to several people and shatted with them. I've talked to Howard Gross, who is, she, most of you know, is former president of Victoria's Secret. And rather than try to reconstruct our conversations, I want to read to you from a letter that he wrote to us in support of his application for the town council. He says, as the CEO of the largest lingerie brand in the world, I was heavily involved in our marketing programs. These programs were all measured for return on investment or ROI. We measured increased sales, increased profits, increased in brand image, increased in brand awareness, customer satisfaction, performance compared to competitors. These ROI measurements were both numerical and empirical. My Board of Directors would not allow any of these programs to continue to be funded unless we could prove such an ROI. Why? Well, if Howard Gross says that measuring the outcome of expenditures can be determined both numerically and empirically, I have to assume that that's true. And what I'm driving at is, when, first of all, when you give us a budget and all you're doing is giving us a bunch of numbers on a spreadsheet. That doesn't help me at all. That doesn't tell me how effectively you've spent your money. You spend $750,000 on summertime marketing. I would hope that as we go forward and you start to make these quarterly or semi-court or semi-annual reports. make these quarterly or semi-annual reports, that you will have information in there that shows that tells us how effective you've been. What has it done to enhance any one of these six things that I've just ticked off? Otherwise, I am winding up rubber stamping a budget and I don't want to do that. As far as the business plan is concerned, I think this is a stark. My problem is, I don't see, except for one line item involving the summer program, I don't see concrete things that will produce the business that this community needs. And the business of this community, the industry in this community is tourism. It's people coming on vacations. And what I was looking for were concrete actions that you are going to take that will increase tourism. actions that you are going to take that will increase tourism. I got some goals that I think are good, but in order for me to understand how well you're performing, I need to know what those concrete things you're going to do to increase tourism, to increase the business of this community, And how well you've done it. So I am hoping that this is a start, but that as you start reporting to us, you'll focus on those issues, at least with respect to the business plan and those same issues that I've just raised with respect to the budget. And I would be happy to hear sort of interim financial reports saying, you know, how effectively you have met any one of these six criteria. Okay. And that was shortened from a much longer speech. Good job. We appreciate that. Jason? I guess I would say I've had some thoughts along those lines as well Fred. And I guess just a general question thinking about the next item on our agenda. It looks like at a minimum we're going to have four new members on the marketing group sales board. That's a pretty broad change in terms of leadership in that area. I'm just wondering if it makes sense to adopt this business plan tonight, given that we're going to have largely a new group charged with taking that forward. Or does it make sense possibly to let that new group take a look at this and make sure that that's the track that they want to go down? the track that they want to go down. Just some of the discussion we had internally was you could have new members on the board. However, given the code changes that were recently made starting the year off with an approved business plan and that's something that could be modified and changed as you move forward in the year. So at least you begin with something to begin to report against, recognizing it can evolve. I think it also gives the board members the new board members a chance to get on board and you know understand what this is all about. Markey. This is where perhaps we do need to have a work session internally with Councilman versus a definition of strategic plan, strategic goals and tactical plan. Some of the issues which my fellow colleague Fred was outlining to me gets into tactical plan, gets into specifics. As long as we achieve the goal and we agree on what that strategic, measurable objective is, the tactical plan how to get there starts putting us into the weeds. So I want to be real careful. We have clear understanding and I think the may report will be all telling. I really want to see did we achieve the goal? I don't, I mean some of the detail, I, we agreed we were not going to get into micromanagement. I want to be very careful that we as a council have an agreement on expectations. As to what is a tactical plan, why are measurable goals and what's our performance targets against those goals? And that's what my understanding is that we're measuring. In the past budgets, we may not have done as well in terms of having measurable outcomes, but we've had measurable targets in this town. So to put the notion out to our community that we have nothing that we've ever measured against, I think is a poor representation of previous councils. So that's my only question. Mark, I agree with you. I think that we have had some of these discussions over the years. And I think we will continue to look at this. My idea is that this is a good business plan to work with. Business plans change and they should be evolving. And your organization, your board, and the our community measure the expectations that we're looking at. We've seen over the past six months between the November and May. That's what we agree with, which I think sounds like a good plan. We get the winter time coming in the May and then November, we can look at some of the summertime stuff. So I think it gives us an instant of accessibility to look at things and as Markey probably alluded to, there's probably more dialogues so we can take and address some of the concerns Fred has tonight on some of these things. But I think this is a good step. I know that you guys have been working for all these years, you know, giving us good information and working towards trying a direction that we are bringing more to our men. You know, some of these return on investments kind of hard to understand and to gauge when you do things like Thursday night concerts. There's not a whole lot of money that comes back after those things. So those are expectations that the community has that may not be quite as easy to understand and to measure. But I think those are things that we recognize are important. But there may be a point we say, you know, heck with it. You know, we're not getting our dollars worth on these 39-dials. Let's change it to Saturday morning, kids foot fairs or something, yes, no. But I think that the Thursday night concerts are an important thing to show people that we do have some activities going on up here. John Wilkinson and Marty. Yeah, I just need some more clarification on how you arrived at your occupancy growth rates. You know, one of the guiding principles of our plan is that we should continue to strengthen winter and significantly grow summer and push the edges. And under your growth occupancy, you're doing a 3% across the board. And you've eliminated the fall and spring seasons, which I understand because they really bleed into the summer and winter program. But how do you significantly grow summer when you're only expecting a 3% growth for the summer program? I know you're doing all you can, and I do appreciate the work you guys have done. I mean, when you look at our year-to-date numbers, what are we at? Sales tax wise, we're up what, 9%. 9% through November. We haven't seen December yet. I got to believe that we're approaching our record years as far as taxes. So whatever you're doing, it's working. Can we make it better? Yes, can we have better measurables? I believe so. But I'd like you to take a look at those percentiles. I know how you got them. You know, I think well, I think 3% would be good. When the town budget grew zero, just before Bob and we've had these debates that Mary Ann and I have kind of presented very conservative like zero percent change numbers to you in the context of the budget. And then I think you need to have a discussion of what's reasonable in terms of pushing performance in the context of a market goal. Yeah, I mean, you don't want to push so hard that it becomes the guiding principle of the sales and group sales that, oh that I have to make my quota. You know, all of a sudden you start stepping over what it is we're trying to do, which is strength and winner and significantly grow summer. Those are the kind of things I really want to see how you measure them, what you said is goals. I think that's a little more difficult. I don't know if you can build incentives into it or not, but that would be- That probably is. That's more of a staffing issue. In the return on investment on expenditures, you have a list of six different events that you're going to measure that's over 40,000 a year. And I looked at your calculation, your formula for figuring that out. And it doesn't build in a multi-year aspect of it. Because some years you're going to be making more, some years you'll be making less. It's just like, I brought up the point that last year our snow pack, we were 240% of average. This year, 50% so to your average were way over average But that's not the way it works in the town, but I like to see some of the long-term looking at some of those return on Investment and return on what was that called? You've probably see your over-year comparisons. Yeah, yeah, John I don't know if you're asking for just that to continue to be measured year after year. Yeah, you wouldn't. No, I'm looking at a multi-year calculation, you know, averaging the cost and return rather than just a season by season basis. Right, it depends on the date, whether or not. Over five years we've seen this kind of growth in this event. And I'd much rather see that kind of a curve going up rather than maybe better for you to determine it is really worth it. Because, you know, Chile and Peru, you could have a 40-inch power storm, which is, and it has happened. You know, so for one year is that investment that you put into that one event enough to cancel it because the one year metric doesn't work for you. So. Well, we've got to make sure they have the data in order to measure to provide the baseline. So. Fred. Don't we have, and that's this question before, and I think I got the answer, but don't we have right now, five years, at least five years worth of lodging statistics, summer lodging statistics. We do. So, I mean, we got at least five years that we could, that we talked about having a base. We got at least those five years and it seems to me we ought to be incorporating each year into that, to that measurement, to that metric. Sure. See how we're doing? Yeah. to that measurement, to that metric. And sure, see how we're doing here. Yeah, and actually all the budgets that you've seen since 2002 have incorporated the 2001 baseline analysis as well as a year on your comparison. I mean, I think that's a fairly standardness practice of managing, you don't manage in one data point. At one point in time, you manage over time, particularly when you know that many of the events that will apply this ROE against are subject to this like corn prices to the weather. So I would agree with that that one year data point would be an insufficient. And at some point, it could be a very unfortunate data point. If you took an action and got rid of something that on the long-term trend as you point out, John would be positive, but we just have to stop and think about it in one particular incident and that year it wasn't. So that's why there's always been baseline year on year comparisons. David Holtz-Jone. No, that's it. Markie, did you? I just had a question, nothing related to the business plan, but to the fact I know we were having a large high-end group meeting here a few weeks ago. That- Holmes, Bresco, FAMTRA. How did- just FYI? How did that go? Because I was particularly interested that being the first time that they came and what just give us a sense of how that went. It's the first time that they've ever been here before and they have- You may want to describe the community. Helms Briscoe is a company that primarily does corporate and incentive high end kinds of events. They've never considered snowmess in the past. As a matter of fact, they don't do a lot of Rocky Mountain resorts. So by inviting their key players to the table, their sales people and management, they were able to experience them as firsthand. Whenever that happens, people, their eyes open up. And really, I had no idea until I got here. And after that, we've had, I think, three really strong leads and a lot of interest. So now they're talking about us. We're on their calendar of considerations. And John's group was very involved. They were majorly overly impressed with everything from lodging in the entertainment and every hospitality that this town in our teens did jointly. It's very positive. Here's the back there. Do you ever do surveys of groups, is it always a standard operation that you do surveys of groups, again, looking towards customer satisfaction? Depends on the group and the meeting planners desire to do that. John, do you want to speak to it first, Anne? Sure, I mean, we do. We mean, so- We mean, so- Yes, so- Conference Center, every group that's in, we survey, we send surveys out to every attendee and group meeting planner to get their feedback. And, you know, typically it's parking. I mean, if you're looking for a, you know which we would react to that in terms of the conference center or to service issues and I'm sure other properties do the same where they survey their guests and then react to it. And then for us the most important information is why do people not come here? So it's talking to those group meeting planners and addressing those issues, getting them. As Susan said, the most important thing is getting them here, have them experience SNOMS firsthand. Because websites and sales calls really don't explain how you can take a giant step and you're from your property to the ski hill. Because most properties and other resorts talk about ski and ski out, and they're referring to properties that are within 50 to 75 yards of the ski slope. So it's a very different experience for people here. Do, do, because it seems to me that surveys could be incredibly useful to you to do the other lodges share this information with the marketing committee so that you all can react in appropriate way? Many times what the meeting planner would do if there's if there's frustration with any with if it's in house at some property in snowmass meaning if it's all contained within top of the village Timberline or Sovatry Wall with vice Roy if there's a concern they would share that with the town of Snowmass, group sales department. And either, I mean, their focus is keeping the business in Snowmass. So if there's an issue with property A, then they would show other options in Snowmass to keep the group happy in Snowmass. Okay. Hugh, do you have a hand on that there? Yeah. Please come to the microphone. I'll just take your name for the record. Hugh Templeman, General Manager of IceRoy. I just want to comment on Susan's Helms Briscoe fan. Firstly, to explain Helms Briscoe even more broadly, you heard of names like Pro Travel, Zell Travel, Virtuoso organizations. Helms Briscoe is an organization of meeting planners that does like that. They're not all employees of Helms Briscoe. They're a conglomerate of individual contractors that then sell under one umbrella. Helms Briscoe, Al-Hai, a series of other such consortiums specializing in meetings. That's what this particular organization does. It is a broad spectrum. Meaning it covers everything from mice, meetings and incentives, conferences, expositions, as well as incentives. Right? Now, incentive process has been very interesting for this market. I think it has potential going forward. It's a long-term deal. I wanted to make sure that was understood because they arrived today. It doesn't mean that the groups arrived tomorrow. In my experience, I've been working with them for about 20 years in various forms with companies like Four Seasons or with Rich Carlton before coming here. And we are closely aligned with Helm's Briscoe. I've got three thousand managers looking after three sections of America. It goes right across the broad space for America. So it is a great platform for us to be projected into. And the feedback that we got through the coverage here was outstanding. It was a shock to many of them. What we had to offer is its location, access by an aspirin airport and the fact the proximity of aspirin also being a close piece from a fundamental infrastructure point of view. So I just wanted to put that into a perspective so it became clear for all of us in the room. In the second part, if I may comment on the survey piece, most of the larger organizations will be doing surveys on both individuals and groups. Fred, it would be unlikely that I would share that information if it were just for my own hotel with the town because usually I'm focused on how to make my own process better, but it would make total sense on something like the Kellogg program, which we had, which was multiple facets and multiple levels of infrastructure that we went about getting some type of survey back on those type of processes. It would be unfair to expect that the timber line has the same level as the silvertry has the same level as the vice-rate, and so they're not looking for it. So just to put that in perspective in the whole deal, and the only other point that I would make while I'm here is one should remember that in statistics and statistics put forward that silvery is out of play from April through December. So automatically you're going to have a very Thanksgiving. Sorry, December, sorry, Thanksgiving. And therefore, but what I'm saying about that point is the opportunity to grow occupancy on a broad spectrum is going to be negatively impacted greatly because that's a huge impact into the available room content that exists. So just bringing that into perspective. Right. And I was going to mention it too because it goes back to John's question about this summer. John Borthwick, former FAB member, now citizen at large, and former member of the gang of four at the FAB that wanted to really know what was going on in marketing, given all the money that was being spent. I don't want to reign on the parade here, but I would like to follow up on the last time we met in terms of this whole question. Mark, you've asked the question repeatedly. How do we get clarity on the strategy? How do we fix or at least create plans? And we create business processes, if you will. That's a big word. It's probably a little too big for what we're talking about here. But basically, how do we create process of planning so that we really can all, first of all, understand what we're doing? Second of all, we can get clarity on where we need to make mid course corrections. And probably one of the more important parts of this plan and the reason that I'm going to go on to just a little bit of discussion to follow on to my strategy stuff is to get buy-in from the stakeholders. These plans are very important. They're not to be overlooked. They're not to be a can that's kicked down the road. And they really do have a very important role to play here. Let me speak to specifically the plan that's before you for approval. There is progress here. First of all, I'm glad to see that the marking department itself has taken line responsibility for owning the plan. Based on my last thing when I was informed that we had a strategic plan that I just wasn't aware of, I went and found it. Here it is. The one I've got I was able to pull off this site was from 2008. That's a long time ago, certainly by these days. And I sent it to Russ to say, Russ, is this the plan? Is this really the plan? And the answer I got back was yes, I Russ to say, Russ is this the plan? Is this really the plan? And the answer I got back was yes, I believe, right, Russ? And so I have some concerns about the strategy plan. I'm going to come back to that. We've got metrics now for events. That's progress because events is a large part of the budget. My concerns, and you can tell I'm leading to some concerns here, is that the planning process, and I don't mean to discount the effort that everybody put into this because I know it was time consuming, I know it was time it was painful, and I know that there was a lot of soul searching going on in the process. That's not to be taken lightly and I certainly don't take it lightly. But the process in my view is still broken. And the biggest problem we have, I think with these documents, and I think it's the biggest problem, the biggest obstacle we have, Marky, to getting the answer to your question is really kind of the unconventional way we've gone about building these plans. Let me be specific here. We have a marketing strategic plan. This document, excuse me, is the foundation from which everything else flows. It's our aspirations, it's our strategies, it's the way it really sets the table for how we are going to do everything right down to day-to-day decision-making in the marketing operation. Okay. I've done a lot of business planning in my career. In the high tech industry, I've written business plans. I started business planning in the 80s when we used to create these 150 page strategic plans that would sit on the shelf. That got down to about 75 pages when I was writing business plans for startups. I've done a fair amount of this work and I'm here to tell you that the format and the structure that we use to describe what it is we're doing is not going to get us there in terms of making operational good operational decisions on a day to day-day basis. Let's talk about the strategic plan itself. Well, it's about, it's all this paper, I'm going to go back to my iPhone. It's about 60% land use planning, which actually took me by surprise. That's what prompted me to send it to Russ. It says this is really the plan. Where I come from, a strategic plan has things like industry analysis, situational analysis, SWAT, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats analysis, competitive analysis, positioning, things like that. And then you get into how you're positioned in your industry, who your competitors are. That provides the strategies into how you're positioned in your industry, who your competitors are. That provides a strategy to get you to the goals, the goals lead to the objectives, the objectives lead to strategies, goals, objectives, strategies, tactics. Okay. It should flow, it should be understandable and it should be really, we're making this much harder than it needs to be as kind of the bottom line for me. I will read you the high level outline from the Strategic Plan. And it reads like nothing I've seen in a Strategic Plan. It starts with a forward, then we go executive summary conclusions, which is a 35 point laundry list. Then we have general observations, five more points. Issues and observations with choices as appropriate, nine questions with some lengthy answers, and a section at the end called Next Steps, which is really the aspiration statement. I've done a lot of strategic planning, and I have never seen anything that was quite organized like this. This is not going to answer your question, Markey, of what the strategy is. This is not going to be a good foundation for writing a more tactical business plan, which is more of an annual document. And essentially, the bottom line for me is, if looking at what we have and what you have in front of you today, the bottom line for me is that if you approve this plan, it's pretty much business as usual. Nothing is going to change in marketing. That was the red flag that we were raising out of the FAB and that's what I'm here to tell you. Now, I'm not suggesting we go into some lengthy planning cycle, because believe me, I'm sure everybody's feeling brain damage from what we've been through for the last six months. But I think we can get to a much more coherent plan, within a reasonable amount of time, that would answer a lot of the questions and turn the temperature down on the discussion, get more buy-in from the stakeholders, and just move on from there. So I guess what I'm suggesting to you is there's a couple of other things I don't know that I need to mention them. There's one important thing though, I think should be mentioned. If you look at the work plan section, I, this plan, there's a statement in there, something of the fact that the items, there's 14 items there, they're listed as incremental, incremental to the historical activities of the group. Okay, that kind of implies there's a reference frame here for comparison. There is no reference frame for comparison. We're dealing with large bucket items in this budget called marketing for whatever that number was. And there is no frame of reference for what this money is being spent on. That was where the FAB was coming from then. That's where I'm sure the FAB is still coming from and mean personally. That's where I'm coming from in terms of evaluating what's going on here and so I guess what I'm here to tell you or here to recommend to you is that We fix the process at least a little bit. We can't get into analysis paralysis We can't spend the next year trying to perfect a plan. I'm not suggesting that, but what I am suggesting is that we least put this planning process, both a strategic plan and the business plan on a more conventional footing for using terminology that we all understand that we define and using essentially putting some stakes in the ground that help us get the flow from the aspiration statement, the goals to the objectives, to the strategies, to the tactics. And it's not that difficult. And I guess what I'm suggesting to you is send it back. Send it back to be reworked. I can assure you that if I presented this plan for approval in my career, not only would have not been approved, but I would not have been allowed to fix it. Okay, I really have that big concern over this thing. So I just wanted to offer that as food for thought before you vote. And I'd be happy to entertain any questions you want to. John. In what you've read in our strategic plan, John, what do you... What's the time frame that the strategic plans have a life, what life span do you believe that they... There's different ways. You know, there's probably a hundred different ways to do it. And I guess what I'm just suggesting is this isn't one of them. The answer to your question, a strategic plan is a longer term, probably three to five years. Three to five years. Okay, a business plan or an annual business plan for a group like the marketing department is obviously one, maybe two years, on the outside. But the thing that's missing from this business plan, this in front of you right now, is there is little or virtually no linkage between the objectives and the tactics that are listed there. There's hardly any strategies in here. There's hardly any linkage in here. So essentially any type of performance can be claimed to be, all right, you can declare victory on any of these things. There are undefined terms here. There are sentences that don't make any sense here. I'm not one to mince words, obviously. It's probably know by now. But this is not sufficient. This is not a sufficient quality from a planning standpoint to really meet the objectives of the planning process. And again, it's not that difficult. With a few rewrites, I think we could get something that's 100% better and it wouldn't take all year to do it. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I guess what I'm thinking of right now is some specific question still on this business plan on I'm probably nodding the favor of doing what John suggests and throwing out the the business plan that we have I think we need to work that sounds like if if John is selected on the marking special events board that he would be a good Resource to help you know grow to a much better in his opinion document. I think there probably are some things that we like to see. He makes good points in the number of these areas. Getting into some detailed questions, specifically things that I've heard over the last six months that are sort of gray and questioning and how it works the group sales We use the group sales in the for the town don't get contracts I've heard those things from discussion about what what Is a qualified lead? How did How does that work? How does our group sales really work and get a lead in there and get it to vitro air? So, SilverTree, and how do you judge that this is a contract that's been brought to the table by our organization? And that future years, is that still something that DAV comes year after year? Are those part of the group sales activities? Those are all questions that I've been thinking about wondering and people have been coming to me saying, well that's not really something that the department does. Are those kind of things something you can sort of help us with, help me understand? What our group is doing, how it can be better, how well it works with our hotel lodging group. Well, I guess from a process standpoint, I just want to take a step back. The thing that, again, I think has been most important in this is articulating goals and measurements. And this is something the FAB worked on, marketing board worked on, you looked at the last meeting and somewhat agreed to both goals and measurements. That, for example, the answer to that at the last meeting was that on a quarterly basis, we're simply going to go through the list of all the leads in the lodging advisory committee. And so have that community look at it very transparently and determine what's a qualified lead and what's not. So 64 qualified leads in a timeframe. That was the original number that we need to confirm with the lodges, that's what they suggested was a good number. So in terms of structure and form and I think that's one discussion. I think the heart of this has been a discussion around goals and measurements. And so I don't want to discount, you know, the significant amount of time and effort that's been spent on that, where I do think there is a level of agreement. The format of the strategic plan and the business plan, you know plan that could continue to evolve with the next board and the council. Okay. Comments, John? I just have a question regarding John's comments. I'd like to hear from you guys as to how you feel that could help fit into the plan and revise it. Because I'd have no way of knowing what John is saying is either true or works in our community. We're a nonprofit as opposed to profit-making companies. It's a little bit different. I understand we want to get there. But I'd just like to hear what your opinion is on the comments that John had brought up. Well, John, as first as a profit environment and a non-profit environment, for instance, I think it's always helpful for a non-profit, and I've worked with a few in the valley, that they consider themselves to have a profit objective. It's just zero. And I think that's a good way to start. And so what would you do if you actually were running this like a business, recognize it and that your bottom line target was zero because you're a nonprofit. And then ask yourself, but how am I different because I'm a nonprofit? So the starting point is I have a profit objective. I am a business, it's zero. What would I do if I believe that was the only thing that mattered, boom, I land that. And then I say, but that's not the only thing that might matter because I'm a nonprofit. And I may be different if so, how am I different and what does that mean? So that's kind of the way I would say the profit, nonprofit, notion is. I don't know what John's strategic planning models are. There are many different strategic planning models. There are some folks, and to be honest with you, I would agree with John 150 page, 70 page, down to, if you take 60% of the 30 pages on our plan now, it's 80, 60, 40% would be 12 pages would be strategic. The other 60% of John points through a land use, and that's because this was done at the request of the TAL manager for the targeted comprehensive plan land use review. And when you look at the addendum as been added to the paper you have now at the back, it was taken out of the strategic plan that we are referring to today, but it was put in the back because it said, you know, this is really not what marketing does. But marketing was asked to give comment and observations about from a marketing point of view. What would you folks have to say about land use? Because we were doing a targeted comprehensive plan review. So it's right. If we weren't doing that plan in 2008 for inclusion in the targeted comprehensive plan review that Russ initiated in early 10 years, we wouldn't have that 60% in the Constitution's land use that was sort of responding to Russ's request. Russ, is that a reasonable statement. Okay. So let's take the 40% remaining that was supposed to be about strategy. Some people would say that was fine. It was framing the issues in the questioning way and answering the questions. One of the questions being what about our target audiences? And we speak to that and we added one at the time, which happened to be independent travelers. And we also recognize that our young aggressive athletes probably was a bit now we were just doing aggressive athletes. Now that might have been because of the average age of the board members or not, I don't know, but we decided let's not focus aggressive athletes. Just a young. John, you would appreciate this. And there's a fairly broad range. And the reason you don't ski free over 70 anymore is because any people are increasingly doing that. So it used to be an oddity, but it's not now, so they charge you for it. So those kind of adaptations were in there. Some of the things that John talks about about competitive positioning, they were referenced as other work that had been done not to be repeated in the plant, but they were in the bibliography and they were referenced. And that was RRC. And at the time it was much of the work that had been done by Walter Keiser and other folks involving the planning for base village. And some of you will remember that. Okay? So the ideal strategic plan in my world, really almost, is the aspiration statement. And the aspiration statement was hammered out and in the comprehensive plan review was reaffirmed by that particular council over an eight or nine year period. And let's say it was hammered out in 2001 or two. And then like I say, it was reaffirmed, slightly amended in 2008. And it seemed to play reasonably well. I mean, I would like to think that right there captures the essence of what we intend to be and how we intend to do it, including a focus on how we intend to do, not just what we intend to do it, including a focus on how we intend to do, not just what we intend to do or be. I don't think anybody, whatever, what is changing plan, just contain something like that aspiration statement. I'm just saying that's kind of an ideal to push yourself towards, it's always going to have more than that. I would agree that there was less clear linkage than we have now between the strategic plan and the notion and goals and then metrics. So now what we have in this document, which can be improved upon, there's nothing that I know of, which can't be improved upon, the strategy talks about what we wish to be aspiration terms going on beyond that and target audiences, et cetera, et cetera. Talks about the role of group sales, talks about the balance between FIT and social business and group sales business, and how we may wish to shift that. Talks about is John quoted the notion of maintaining and growing winter robustly but increasingly focusing on summer where we thought we had the largest competitive gap. Now we take all that and then we move it to goals which are A through E first page of the business plan. And the goals don't talk about 3% or 2% or 1% or break even on Thursday night concerts or it's OK to lose so much on Thursday night concerts. But those goals say we will measure events on ROE. We will grow occupancy. We will grow revenues, et cetera, et cetera. We will improve group sales performance. Then we get into the business plan and the metrics get specific. They say in 2012, as the goal state, we will grow occupancy, a 3%. I will tell you, when it comes to the 3% John, that this is the first time that we of the marketing group have ever established a specific set of metric targets, percent on percent on percent. The reason for that is we always took the town's budgeting basis. Because otherwise there was a disconnect. And now you have an overall town budget, which is based on zero. And we have a significant measure called revenue, which is the basis of all sales tax, which is at 3%. And that's OK too. It's just the way it was done before was the town had a budget, typically, physically conservative, so that would be an appropriate municipal approach. And some folks like, you know, drummers and marketers and whatever might be a bit more aggressive at times, right? But we had said as part of the town, we'll take the town budget. Now this year folks started speaking of numbers that were significantly bigger than 3%. And I think it came to be reasonable. That 3% seemed to be about what, the industry, about what some of our local larger entities were looking at. And we sort of accepted that, but I will tell you, the marketing board, I think, John, it's fair to say, Pernesse is no particularly keen crystal ball on forecasting growth in terms of this year or next year. Maybe it would be a bit smarter because this year we didn't just accept the town budget. We sort of wrestle with, if not zero what. And we came up with the 3%. And I would agree with you, if it's 3% in the winter, we want to grow some or more, we could have even gotten further beyond our intelligence and say we're going to say some are 4.6% but we went well. Okay, let's just take 3%. Let's see how this works. When we're trying to forecast something other than accepting the town's finance directive. So that's pretty much where I think we are. I think John has comments which are of value. I mean John and I have shared those comments. We have a locker room in the same place in the basement of a building nearby. And I think that there is always improvement in planning processes. And I think, like everything else, there's one more than one way to skin that cat. And once again, we were doing two jobs at once when this particular plan was put together. One was marketing strategy, and the other was responding to Russ's targeted comprehensive land use review with commentary from the marketing book. Okay. Fred and John. There's a concept here that I've got a problem with, and that's not for profit. Yes, the marketing committee is not for profit. You're not there to make money. What you're there to do is make money for everybody else in this town. That's what marketing is supposed to do. You're supposed to bring guests to this town. You're supposed to induce people to come here on vacation for a decent length of time. So which is why I will go back to Howard Gross's letter and say, if you can't tell me that the dollars, let's put things like community benefit aside, the Thursday night council. Okay. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about dollars that you are specifically spending on marketing, on advertising, on Internet, on print media, whatever it is, unless you can come back and show us that those dollars increased one of these six categories, I don't understand why you're spending the money. May I please? Fred, once again, you must understand me. Right. And you're smarter than that. Because I was answering John's question about how does this differ from a nonprofit to a nonprofit because John, wait a minute, friend, patience is a virtue. John Borthwick was John Borthwick was I think speaking from his business experience and I think John Wilkinson that's what caused you to say well do your experience come from the for-profit world how does it differ for nonprofit? Just we operate as a municipality organization and how do you turn that into a profit seeking? And I was just trying to share with you my notion of when dealing with nonprofits oftentimes I think it's best to start with a profit notion and if they think they're different than that then they have to explain why. Now you know Fred you caused right people to think about power or why very strongly over the last few months and I'm one of the people to sat down ROI very strongly over the last few months. And I'm one of the people who sat down under my usual compensation arrangement and created an ROI that I thought you accepted as a formulaic notion of how we were going to do occupancy base, spend base, etc., economic change, which was there to offset and overstep the expenditure that we made in marketing investment. Do you no longer accept that premise that we, I thought, agreed on? No, no, I absolutely do. Great. So why do you keep giving these speeches which make it look like me and others have never thought about this and still don't agree with it. We agree. You know, and what you even walked up at this table at the end of the last meeting said, I am astounded at how much we've agreed tonight. That was December 7th, by the way. Take it with it, it's me. Oh yeah. Don't get me wrong. And I think you're desperately not to get you wrong. I think you make it hard to get me wrong. And I think you're desperately wrong. But you make it hard to get you to interpreting what I said. Well, we're having a communications problem. We should have a beer about that. I am what I am saying is quite simply, the marketing and group sales committee spends $4.2 million. Okay. I think Howard Gross is right. $2 million. Okay. I think Howard Gross is right. I think if you are a marketing committee, you have to be accountable for that money. What does that money produce? And if it doesn't produce one of these six things, why are you spending it? And that's my question. Yeah, and who do you think disagrees with what you've just said for the 42nd time? Well, I haven't heard anything that explains that to me. I haven't seen anything that says, you know, we spent $50,000 on print ad. And we went out and we did a survey. And we found out that our brand image increased 5% 10% something like that. There's no accountability here. Again, just a point of process. I think there's been an enormous amount of time in agreement around I don't disagree with that either Around the set of goals and a set of measurements Now I think we're at a point to apply those goals and measurements two actions and strategies and then report You know it's a responsibility then of the board to come back and report to you on a quarterly basis And if I can share we report regularly with the board many, many, many results. That's the level of detail. We do have tons of years of been doing that. Yeah, from print to yes, Markey. Let's go to John and Markey. This debate, I think it's been timely. I think if we had a better plan, we wouldn't need this debate, frankly. Let me just say a couple of things. I think if we had a better plan, we wouldn't need this debate, frankly. Let me just say a couple of things. First of all, I know the original strategic plan was done with the comp plan. It was stated somewhere in there that all that land use stuff was really requested of the marketing board apparently to do that kind of analysis. I understand that. That's fine. And I'm not saying that that, in a matter of fact, marketing needs to consider that kind of analysis and I understand that that's fine and I'm not saying that that's in a matter of fact marketing needs to consider that in my view though marketing needs to sell what we got okay when they need to be informed in terms of the bed base the mix and all that stuff okay but the bottom line for marketing they need to sell what we've got and they need to make the best of the situation whatever it is because there are a lot of variables most variables are not in the marketing control. Let me just answer John your question about nonprofits versus profits. Non-profits, I think, are just much simpler to plan for. I would submit that they're not as simple as the shortcuts we've taken while our planning here. But I think Bob's right. It's a profit goal of zero. You're going to try to break even. You're going to try to do some sort of meet some charter for your group, et cetera, et cetera. So it's, yes, it's different, but I would submit that the profit motive of a conventional business and operationally the way you would run a nonprofit, they're slightly different, but from a planning standpoint, they are very similar. They use the same terms, they use the same industry analysis, they do the same competitive analysis, et cetera, et cetera. Let me comment, because Bob brought up something that I think is important to note. We have a town aspiration statement. Matter of fact, we like it so much that it's in this plan this before you twice. The aspiration statement, in my view, is what we want to be when we grow up. It's fine. It's a good thing. It's a worthwhile exercise to go through. It's similar to an elevator pitch, although it's a higher level. It's kind of up here. What do we want snowmast to be long term? It is not a strategic plan. It is not a strategy. And to ask an aspiration statement to do the heavy lifting of a strategic plan, I think is asking a little bit too much. So we go from there down to strategy. Let me just define the word strategy in terms of where I'm coming from. A strategy is a conceptualization of how you're going to do something. The goal is to win the war. The strategy is the Biden conquer. It's a subtle thing. And it's a critical thing because the questions that Fred keeps asking, and which I think are good questions, are simply, how do we know what we're spending this money on, how do we know why we're spending this money, how do we know if we have succeeded or not. That's where this all comes from. We know what the budget is, we spend $2.2 million on marketing events and we have a number of programs and other things that are not defined, really, and nowhere that I can find. They might be defined internally. I'm assuming they are. But those elements need to be drawn out because there is skepticism in the community. There's skepticism with a lot of people in terms of what's going on here. How does this money being spent? And until we make that linkage between the goals, the objectives, the strategies, and the tactics, the tactics are where the money is being spent. That's the who, what, where, when, and why. Until we make that linkage to these higher level ideas, we are going to continue to, I think, have these debates, which I think are probably in the grand scheme of things, unproductive in the long run. I'd rather argue about whether or not we've got the right strategy as opposed to whether or not we're accountable or not. There should be no question about whether we're accountable. And that's what this planning should be. Okay. Let me just add one more footnote on a goal. We've got, we've laid out a bunch of quantitative goals, occupancy, sales tax, et cetera, et cetera. There are other types of goals that I would like to see in here. How about social marketing program as a goal? How about developing one? Social marketing is kind of its tactic, it's a strategy, it's all this stuff. But basically social marketing, and I've worked with a lot of digital media. We have a long way to go in that area. I would say that it's just an example of a more qualitative goal, it's more a process goal, but there's a whole set of goals which are not covered in here. If our only focus is getting a tourist in here, getting a guest in here, and seeing how much we can get them to spend here, I think we've really kind of overly narrowed the objective. So anyway. Thank you, John. That's it. Marky? Well, I appreciate all the discussion that we've had tonight. But quite frankly, I think we need to take an action step and we need to move on. Because we can sit here. We continue to debate the same thing and I totally agree with John. It's getting to the point where I question the productivity out of the time we've spent in terms of outcome. So I would suggest that we move forward. I don't want to work in a vacuum. I would suggest and put forth that we approve what we have in front of us. I really appreciate the historical context in which the 2008 plan was done. It was kind of refresher. Thank you Bob of going back to the days when I was chair in the planning commission of why we asked the marketing group to do that. So I think that this is a beginning document. All documents can be improved. We know that, use it as a baseline. We know it needs to be enhanced, let the new marketing board have something to work with, to not approve it, means they have nothing to work with. So I would suggest that we move forward with this. And in the discussion, and quite frankly, I think that we move forward with this and in the discussion and quite frankly, I think that we've talked about this enough. Is there a reason not to just forward this on to that new board and let them see the things that they do? Well, they need to know that town, I would suggest that we might want to do tentative approval, pending review and improvement because right now they have nothing. pending review and improvement because right now they have nothing. We don't even have a plan for the marketing committee and the department for next year. You don't you don't have the goals, objectives and expectations and targets. We haven't had one for... Oh yes we have. Oh yes we have. You plan every season? Yes we have. We'll be done in like two weeks. Oh yes. The whole thing we've never had anything is totally wrong. Well, I think we've heard from them that they haven't had a metric that's really valid or something. Or are we the only one we haven't had? Well, even group sales has admitted as much as it wasn't an effective metric in terms of the way we operate. Yes, that's true. But in part, terms of work, we've had metrics before in terms of occupancy budget and social marketing too and we'll share this with you. It's done something but yeah I think you know there are other areas we can enhance. You know I'm more I'm in the camp of marquee I think this is something that needs to be worked on I think we should go forward today with this business plan and let the I think we should go forward today with this business plan and let the organization, the board, members look at this and try to possibly enhance it as you spend some time at your highly paid wage that you get out of this community. And I'm fine with what I'm sorry, I't finish with with John in terms of notion, in terms of improvement and context and what have you I've done strategic planning for years primarily with nonprofits. So there's nothing wrong with suggesting there's a thousand different ways to skin the cat. The question is we all need to agree on the methodology, not only for strategic planning for this department, but even for planning department and for future other departments. So I, you know, let's let that group lay out. Let's show. Yep. The Fred. Why don't we tentatively approve this subject to review by the marking board as it will be constituted after this evening? So moved. Further discussion. Also, let's say, I really don't have anything with an direction. Is that a motion to approve? I will make it as such. I'm intended to approve this. I'm going to review by the marketing board as constituted after this evening. Fred, I guess my concern is this tentative thing because I think that business plans are always reviewed and they're always enhanced and they're always, I think that's part of the deal. It's not something that we're going to say tentative so that in 60 days we want them to come back and change something. I want this to be a charge to the new marketing committee to review. Okay, John's answer. I would suggest if that's your goal and it goes with council, I would suggest that you approve this business plan, take your vote, approve it, and then in your next action, like before we go on to the next item, direct or after we actually do the next item, direct or after we actually do the next item, direct that board to review this business plan and look for a greater understanding of the issues that we've discussed tonight. And propose any modifications for your next quarterly report. Yes, that's good. Yes, so once you have a new board on board, new board on board, new board seated, direct that board to review upgrades they see fit at least discuss, because that's a direction from you. Mr. Provost. Yeah, I would agree with Fred's motion to approve. I would agree with your comment just now and to say that in light of the discussion this evening, the board as it is newly constituted in review. So that it knows that you're asking that the issues that were put in the room tonight are to be considered in dealt with and response back to you as to what the outcome of that consideration based on in light of the issues this evening. Okay, so there's a motion to approve business plan. Second. Second by Markey. Any further discussion at the audience or in the table here? All those favour please signal if I be saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you. If you don't mind, I'll go. Okay. So that's, you know, to move forward with this business plan. And then Driftster. And then we'll deal with that here after this. I'll write it up for you. After this. Next item. Good job. You're resolution. Just a misdresser. I know that this has Ron's name on it, but there were some things that, because I was out of the country, I wasn't able to add to the discussion that you have in front of you. But one of the concerns that's come out with the change in the composition to the board, and I guess some terms expiring and some representation feature being moved, these have either new positions that we come up with a little bit of a problem in terms of the staggering of the terms. I was wondering about that. And I am the language because of, in the code, the initial appointment and the initial terms of office really didn't change, contemplate a change in the composition of the board. And with that, it becomes somewhat difficult to keep it on a three year staggering terms. And for example, all the lodging terms come up tonight. And I guess, except for one is when David Perry moves to a different position, which we've gotten a letter to saying that he indicates he wants to do that, I would encourage you to implement that stagger with your appointments tonight, correct it so that it reflects the new composition and it will provide for an at large position rotating every year instead of two one year one the other and then none. So you have a new at large person every year and you'd have a new lodging representative every year because those are the two heavily weighted categories which have three each. And to do that, I think all you would what you would need to do is you have two vacancies in the at large category. If you appointed one of those people to a two-year term and one of those people do a three-year term, you would correct the stagger. Okay. So they'd be one each year. The lodging is a little more problematic because you have two, three-year terms in one, two-year term. So I guess I would ask that you might inquire of the applicants that were nominated by the lodging industry if one of them would be willing to serve a single year term which would put us back on the stagger and then you guys could decide who had those terms if someone was willing to do that that could be the decision for you. One other item I need to let you know is that an applicant that was in your packet as with throwing her application and no longer wishes to be considered for the board and that was in your packet as withdrawn her application and no longer wishes to be considered for the board. That was the Food and Beverage Industry Representative, Kelly Neal, since she's withdrawn her application. Okay. The only girl. Now, you know, just specifically in that point, was that something that the Food and Beverage Industry had nominated her? Was that something she was applied for that scene? She just applied. So, understand that someone in the industry can nominate themselves. There's no preclusion on that. But, you know, our art there, I guess we haven't gotten that point yet to that place where we have a retail association. No, we have a retail representative and I believe John Henshel was nominated. Was he nominated? I guess I wanted the clarity of. I can't remember if he was a nominated or if he was a member of the law. Johnny is retail. And he was nominated by a retail association. Was he self-nominated? Well, to be honest with you, there's a very busy people and it's hard for them to step up so we end up encouraging them to get somebody to run it and when they don't then we were knocking on doors and just saying come on guys the seats at the table can someone take it so we actually went to Johnny and I think Robert helped to get him on board this time we were sort of advised to not do that to set the table to get them together if they want us to to help in any way but to not knock on the doors. So the lodging association did? Yeah, lodging was such a, I saw a mother's, a relative, great. Yeah. And I remember years ago I went to the tower, there was a restaurant association type thing, you know, a subcommittee, you know, Bob. I would like to comment that Susan's right. She has in past years gone out and tried to make sure there were board representation from the industry segments when none was forthcoming. This year, you agreed with board support. You should not do that. We should let those folks. But we also agreed with the committees that we were forming, that there would be a board member chairing each of the industry segments. And for those folks that weren't like lodging, who sort of self-started, self-organized and therefore self-nominated, the chair was going to bring them to get, not do it for them, but work very hard to bring them together and cause this constituent representation to be enhanced. To my understanding, there had been fledgling efforts in the food and beverage and there was even some discussion amongst them about the deadline and nomination date, they just didn't quite make it. So I think according to the council's code guidance now, John, watch me. Since there is no industry nomination that the council can appoint someone on their own and they don't necessarily have to be a member of that industry. That's kind of where I think we got to in food and beverage this time. Right. Okay. And I guess John Good. If I may continue. If you were to take the recommendation of staff to stagger those broad categories together, I guess I would also suggest that you appoint a food and beverage person for a one year term. And in that way you'll have three members coming up in one year, three members coming up in two years, and three members coming up in three years, and they will be down in the subjects, in the representatives of the industry. So I also have a suggestion to you and you may take it or not take it. With the withdrawal of Kelly Nielsen, you have the exact number of applicants for the number of seats. And that's why I was going to get at maybe here in a minute. I think what you're going to find, I mean, people have thought they were applying for three-year terms. And you're going to reduce some of these to one-year term. I suggest you do that in the food and beverage representatives to a one-year term. Take one of your extra at large candidates and put them in that position. In hopes that we get true food and beverage representation. That person's on for a year. They can then apply for that at large sheet that will expire any year. And if you appoint one of the two three year terms as a one year term in the lodging industry, all the stagger works. There's a balance of three people appointed every year and the balance is also between the cat eat. The lodging category will have a person each year as well the at large. So if I understand you correctly, you're suggesting that with respect to the three applicants for the at large position, you have one of them fill the- F and B. Say again? The food that fill that seat for one year term. Right. And then the two at large, one would get a two-year term, one would get a three-year term of the other ones. Now that's how it's canceled through that. If you take my suggestion, just be deciding who gets which terms. Okay. Ronda? You have another choice. You can just keep re-advertising. It's up to you. You can leave the case. Thank you. Okay, John Wilkinson. That's what I'd be in favor of. I'd like to see somebody from Food and Beverage actually be in that seat. Understand that these have been not advertised since October. There's been active recruitment. Right, Marky? Well, you know, between all of us, I don't know of anyone who would want to sit on this board. That's what happened. You might want to ask them now. How we have them captured? Quick before they would call. We have them captured. I'm just, you know, this board has done so much heavy lifting and we need to give a lot of credit to those who are here or who are not here who work very, very hard over the last three to forward. I think we just need to move on. And if that is a suggestion, John, I really appreciate all the time that you put in to trying to figure all this out. The matrix wasn't there. Mark, you're right. Well, it'd be hard for me. Oh, you have the hard decision in front of you, but to look at someone that's applied for a term and say, we really want it, but we don't want it for a year. That's the tough thing. In the room from the block in the room, maybe you can make it easier. Oh, I was not done, but that's the... And also, when your position can also come back after one year, when we apply for three years. Marker's no ten. I just think we go ahead and get the board appointed get it done they've got a lot of work to do you know I'd love to see someone from food and beverage it'll allow us some time to recruit for next year I mean we're only talking less than nine months until we're back at this game again repeating yourself you're repeating and I'll just say you repeat your comment a minute ago oh sir I would just suggest as maybe a fundamental question, if we don't have people stepping up from food and beverage and retail, maybe we don't need a food and beverage and retail seat on this board. No, that's why we have it in there. We have the opportunity. We have the opportunity if the one does, if we can appoint somebody that's in the room. I mean, I'm not agree with you more. I think if you have got people who have come forward and said I want to serve on this committee given the heavy lifting they have done in the past and it is heavier lifting they are going to have to do going forward I think we should exploit them to the fullest. If I might also interject that there are two people who are applying for the lodging see also manage the food and beverage operations. So while they're still supposed to represent lodging channel they can still share their insights about the restaurant. Sure. Okay. So specifically talking about Johns recommendation I think that's an appropriate one. How does council feel about taking that recommendation? One, two, three, four, four to one. Okay, so let's use John's recommendation. How about now deciding on who we should use as the, to say, at large, you're going to be a two year seat. And the other two were at- And the other at large would be a three year seat. Yeah, three year seat. What's Mr. Provost? two or and the other large would be a three years. Three years, what is the purpose? One out there, two year and one out there is three year. John, if it's okay with you, I'd be happy to be the one year food and beverage. If that would just make things simple. And then you could do all the calculations, ROE instead. Yeah. It would be a short time or attitude. You might find it here, even with acceptance? Yeah. Hopefully the short time I had a tube. You might find it here. I would advise you. Even if we accept it. Yeah. Okay. It'd be quite easy, don't let me. Thank you, Bob. Let's, uh, is that acceptable? Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And you would need to determine a three-year term for the at-large seat and a two-year term for the at-largest seed. So since in my suggestion of these since we have Mr. Boythwick here, they came with three years to see. Yeah, because he's no longer on FAB. Has he resigned that? I don't know. I don't think he's written that he's resigned yet. I'm not on FAB. No, okay. I can't believe it. Okay. So let's admit Mr. Boythwick, the three year. And he's not here. So that's right. That's why it's easy. Okay. What else? Then the three candidates and I assume you're going to take the action of appointing David Perry as the ski con representative. Therefore, he vacates his lodging term, which has a balance of two years. So you would have a one, a two, and a three-year term in lodging between Robert Sinko, Hugh Templeman and Steve Santon. Very good. OK. Councilor Fluo, that's all right. Yep. Is as amendment, you know, say resolution for a series 2012 with those edits Let's get them all done and then you got a point them. Okay, right So I don't know how you want to decide that You might also have some input from the Canada. We might have a volunteer They're doing a pretty sophisticated decision making system in the bag How'd you guys like to have a hot paper scissors? I see that going in the back. How'd you guys like to have a hot paper scissors? I see that going. He was nominated for three. Very good. Very good. Okay. This is great how this works out. After. Man, I ask you. Please do, Markey. Is there any women on this board? Are there any women besides that? It's a lot of testosterone. Is there any? Not even singular. Well, where is Barbara? We have a woman's seat though, do we? Where's she's up? She was at the police station. We'll do this. Make sure that there's good balance on the advisory committee so that female perspective can be represented because we do think differently our species. Oh yeah. And we have three terms. If we go this way we have three terms expiring in here. Sounds good. Listen to your now. Anything else to do? Anything else to do? Well there's the question of the ex officio position and you're not required to appoint that at this point. And I don't know that anybody actually would meet the qualifications. Correct. We don't have a debate. Okay, so we won't worry about that right now. Okay. All right. As was amended, Mr. Dresser and staff and Councilor. Actually, I can't make an amendment. I just suggested. Well, no, you suggested it is a suggested amendment We would like to follow those suggestions So I would ask for a motion from one of you to amend it according to the discussion here today I'd amend or Resolution number four some move Fred Fred myself For the discussion of those vote I vote on a discussion. All those in favor, that amendment? Those amendments? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. John. John. Five-o? Five-o on that. No, no, no, no. I'm looking at the resolution number four as amendment. Is there a motion? Summ of. Marky. Second by. Fred. Okay, I learned then resolution number four is amendment. Is there motion? Some moved. Marky, second by Fred discussion. All those in favor please signify this thing aye. Aye. All right, those opposed? Thank you. Thank you for those of you that went with this plan and we've had a few more terms. Very good. Thank you all. You're happy after a year. Really? And especially my thank me in 365 days. Okay. Moving on, that is just a part. Thank you. Again, cast meeting this Thursday Friday. I also wanted to give you a heads up on EOTC. I shot you the schedule for the EOTC meetings that are being scheduled for the year. Again, the subcommittee meetings, Billy and John are getting plugged into dates. February 9th March 1st will be the subcommittees. February 9th March 1st will be the subcommittees and please again put that date for the March full EOTC meeting which I emailed you earlier. Also asked you for a date for the annual strategic planning meeting. He's getting pretty close. The 27th of February Monday, just in Jason's. We're looking for first a period of time. Then want to work with you a little bit on agenda for that. I am jammed on that's next Monday. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we wouldn't do that to you. Okay, this would be called percissette overload. That would be the last Monday of February. I'll make it work. Okay, just a little bit right. I'm looking. Just looking for a chunk of time to block. Half day. The 27th month. A February, yes. Thank you, I'll leave that. I'm figuring the packet. I haven't even been to. I'm figuring the pack ever need me. I mean, it is. Okay. Well, looking at why starting it. Thought about it. Well, what time do we know? No, we'll talk about it here. We'd like to get as much time. I think the. The component we definitely want to do is kind of that strategic planning element of, you know, goals and actions. So we've more or less implemented most of that game plan from last year. The next question would be would you want to do something in terms of how you work as a team, how you communicate. The commissioners did an interesting exercise that actually your directors have just done, which was a personality process. It took about five minutes, but it actually told you a lot about how we communicate, how we deal with conflict or not. So John and I were, we kind of throughout our personality tests. And it was actually very, very helpful for the group. So some of you was like, one? I've had a job. Where did you want that? I just put this one on. I'm all alone. So, another one was. That's true. The question was, time of the day, 9 o'clock to 1, 9 o'clock. You know, if we could just kind of look at, say, 9 o'clock to, say, 3 or 4. I'm what I'm what how much do we have to do 27th? I can't do that. I want to do Monday's you can't do it Well, it is enough for a strategic planning. Right, but the other part takes a little while John said the Monday mornings you can't do so 12 John. Yeah, I could make 12. Okay 12 to 5 Yep You want to do anything in the context of an agenda in terms of You want to do anything in the context of an agenda in terms of Working together how you work as a team what works what doesn't work? One player is really worried about how this group works together If they started it 98 that's just an agenda question and if you choose to do something that takes a couple hours Those longs y'all agree with me. I think it'll be just fine a couple hours. As long as you all agree with me, I think it'll be just fine. Yeah. Why don't we for now just block out that time? Yeah, it's so 12 to 5. I have to be down valley for an evening meeting. It's 6. Yeah. It's 12 to 4. So that's just right. John, what time can you be up here 11? That would be pushing it 1130? No, no worries Well if he's chasing that lead and be down valid by 6 So with the traffic and all this stuff I'd like to give him at least an hour and a half Well and I'd like to just consolidate that I'm going down there for a meeting I'd put the second half in I'll stay down there rather than I'm Well maybe we meet that way. You don't have to meet in snowmess. We could find a different place and actually that can often be helpful. How about the salt town hall? It's still a public area. Are the Ego County building? Yeah, the County building. It's all right. Very. That might work. What's up to you. Fire with me. That's fine. If that helps, you know. Where are you trying to get to Jason at the end of the day? That would be perfect for you. That works for you, right? You're open to that? Yeah, but it's all right. Or the Eagle County. They have a working, looking at the 27th. They have got great meeting rooms. Bad news as they charge you. But the whole wide area. looking at a venue down valley. It's still a public meeting. We've noticed it. Okay. Does that sound fine, the council? Rest of you. I'm not hearing you, John. Yep. Okay. Work on that. We'll be back to you in the future with agenda and thoughts for that event. Okay. Anything else? You know this whole thing is bus stop. Not in view. Yeah, I had a, what would it cost with the different options in here? We didn't necessarily give you options. We kind of indicated that we have some signage. I mean we've got issues up and down brush creek. We sure do. Multiple locations. We've got Al Creek, you've got Wood Road and and Brush Creek. You do have here, you know, the other only other idea here is potentially consolidating the bus stops further down to the down hill. So you got a little bit longer line of sight. There's a little hump there. Right. And I guess when I was looking at that, that was an idea that I thought let's push it down the hill. That way. You pull up and down that road all the time I do. Yeah, I only hit one person a day. So. It's a convenience factor for the people that kind of live higher up, you know, in our residential community up there. So I get, you know, right now there are are two bus stops so someone wants to get off lower they can wait and get off lower was better line of sight right? Yep we're not gonna change anything but they could get off lower. There's essentially two stops there so you can stop higher or you could stop lower that's essentially what I'd pass on to the individual. Okay yeah because right now I think yeah I think we need to do something that we can't take the terrain down. That's expensive. The speed, I mean we do have a lower speed limit there. Right. But nobody pays attention. At 15 miles per hour. Well, and we do tick it up there. So let's just look, yeah, let's continue keeping eye on that and try to see what we can do with what people know. you can get off the lower if you're you know concerned about the line of sight. Okay. If he wants on the business you know the uh business trip. I'm with business manager's report. We finished that part. Okay. Hearing none, thank you, Russ. Maybe we're six. Back to them, yes. What does that drosity stuff come back in with the county? Kind of in their, it's kind of their bowl and it's back in their court. I believe the mayor and I have been invited to break bread with Michael and John Peacock. So that we'll have a little bit of a discussion. We'll have a little bit of a discussion. We'll have a little bit of a discussion. We'll have a little bit of a discussion. Okay. Okay. Okay. John? Yeah, I do have one thing I want to bring up is that in that biological study that we did pay for. One of the comments that they made was that the closure on the North Mesa property, which is known as the rim trail north, could be opened as early as May 15th. And I would like to make moves in that direction that we can make a change in our closures to move them up to May 15th. I just want to get ahead of this because we're getting ready to reprint our summer maps and putting up signing on the trail itself. If we're going to make a change in that, I would want to have that done before that we go to print on the maps and the signs. If you read in the paper also last week, I guess the county's looking at easing as winter restrictions and stuff. So is that something, John, the trails committee, and you guys have looked at and talked with while my folks to say that works, or is it just something individual you're looking at? No, no, I mean, it came out in the biological study, and I don't believe the trails committees weighed in on it but I'd like to start that process moving forward so we can open at May 15th rather than June 20th. The problem with the county closure, they have to go through a land use process to change the closure date on the brush creek trail. And John with that, I know within the horse ranch PUD, they had a specific prohibition on dogs, for example. And one of the things, Hunt and I, discussed, was having one document might be in the form of a resolution. So you could kind of adjust one tool for uses on trails, closures on trails, and you could more nimbley change that. Being, I mean, you need to double check the PUD to make sure it doesn't talk to that. I'd almost prefer to have that two separate questions, though. I wouldn't want to link the trail closure and the dog usage. I'm willing to discuss both of them, but I'd like to keep those separate. Okay. I think that's appropriate. 80 else? Okay. Approval meeting minutes for October 17th. So the sixth, so I think we've really got on there. Is it? We've got a water district item at this point. So if that's what we have, then is that something that we want to continue until the latest meeting? I know the water district is planning to give you a presentation. We got a day for a walk on a... Yes we need to have that meeting then. Right. Okay so at this point that's it for that meeting. Pretty straight. For maybe I have a few things, yeah. Okay. Approval meeting minutes for October 17th. Marky. Second by Fred. Discussion? Edits? Yeah, no, well done. Thank you. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Councilor O'Connor, committee reports and calendars. Jason. Nothing for me. Marky. Nothing. Nothing for me. John, welcome. Yeah, we're having a open house on the Skyline Mountain Park trails, poles, on this Thursday in the Chambers here from 530 to 730. I'd encourage anyone that has any interest in what we're going to be able to do with that property over the next few years that they attend and make their comments known. County's going to be adopting this plan at some point. I'd certainly like to have all the comments from Snowmass Village on the table at that point. Did that the same as the drusty property? It used to be. John, if you had any conversation about dogs and stuff because I have had people coming to me recently and saying, you know, they really would like to be able to do something with their animal up there. Yep. Nope. That was a highlight of the biological study and I don't believe the county is going to back off on that. Okay. But on the North Mesa, I think there's opportunity there. Okay, I would agree. You mentioned that today. Jason, John? John? Jason asked. Is it? Thursday 530 to 730 here. Right. Okay. And it will have, I've seen some draft maps, so people will have the opportunity to see. So I'm- We've had meetings going on since last fall and I've pretty much attended every single one of them just to make sure that good we're adequately represented Appreciate that Okay Mr. Fred nothing is there a motion for a joint that's Fred and second by Markey all in favor You buy any opposed good night Fred and second by Markey. All in favor? Bye. Any opposed? Good night. You're going to get a bonus. I should have mentioned this under the T.M. report. you Thank you.