I'd like to call to order the Stomach Stoge Town Council meeting for September 24th, 2012. First item is roll call, please Rhonda. Mayor Bueno. Here. Welcome, son. Here. Butler. Haver. Cooker. Here. Thank you. Next item we have on our agenda is for the public non-agenda items. If there is anyone in the public wishing to make a comment for us to talk about in the future. Seeing none Let's move on to council updates Mr. Cooker I In floor I besiege I I implore, I besiege, I urge my fellow councilmen to get their evaluations in as soon as possible, please. We would like to wrap this up at an executive session after the next meeting. So for anybody who has not got their evaluations in, please do so. Thank you, Fred. Anything else? No. Mr. Wilkinson. Yeah, just got a couple of things. Picking County Library has a bunch of special events this week that I'd encourage people to check out. We have a couple of authors discussing their books, Stephen Marostsky. And we have a team poetry asylum on Wednesday, which is really cool. It's an open mic. Poetry club for teams at the library. You can go to pick and library dot something or other just Google it and you can see what we have going on and that's it Billy. Thank you. Tomorrow is our budget meeting day. Oh shoot darn. So we'll be starting that. Just FYI I've got a fire department board meeting starting at 8 a.m. for my budget and I had forgotten when we decided to move this little earlier. So I'm gonna have a little problem in the morning being there until about nine. The time we starting? Eight. Oh, geez. So I forgot with that last week when we talked about moving it up. So we'll, you know, think about that. See if there's a need to push it off a little bit later if there's an ability to. I know some people had issues on the other end of it. So we'll go from there and talk about a little more than the meeting. Can you refresh my memory while we moved it up? What was there? Because people had things in the afternoon they had to get to. Marky has to be in a meeting by three. That's right. So that meeting without looking at my camera, it sounds good. Do we have the flexibility with the notice we've given? We noticed it to start at eight. If they actually started at nine, could we even do that? Were you asking me? I guess I was kind of looking at Ronda and it's noticed from 8 a.m. to 2 p.m. tomorrow. Okay. So just to give you a sense of the agenda for the morning, probably the, we were planning to introduce probably the most important things and the biggest issues between eight and nine as an overview, then you would have Rick Griffin representing the chair of FAB come in at the end of that presentation, that probably without questions, it would only take 10 to 20 minutes. He would go through recommendations And then we would go by fund by fund. So again the two biggest ones we have the most discussion on obviously is the general fund Going to the red fund and then you go to the other Various funds so You know we can talk maybe a little bit more at the end of the meeting with everybody here. Okay, let's do that. Miss Marquis and walked in. Give her a chance to get seated, but we're just finishing up with council updates. And did you know? You don't have me, okay? Somebody did ask me if there is a way in the summertime that we could think about or have like parking lots five and six stripe for the summertime. They thought that maybe we could get some more parking there. They've seen some people parking kind of summertime-ish to far apart in areas. And so I said I would bring that up. Maximize the matter of spaces in there. Of course, the winter doesn't matter too much because it's full covered with snow. But I didn't know what that would take to do if that was even something council wanted to have done. But I suggested I bring it up to let us digest it, think about it, and see what it might take to do that. So let's move on then. I have number four, Resolution 27 Series 2012, Western Hotel, Comprehensive Sign Plan. Mr. Wallstrom's name is attached to this one. El Jim. Thank you. And this particular conference of sign plan as an amendment for the Western Hotel. Basically to propose some uniform design standards for the retail signs along the wall and also to propose wayfinding the directional signs and advertising signs for the hotel itself. And the CSP is essentially an amendment to the original 1988 a conference of signed man as well as the 1989 amendment that added more signs to the old silvery hotel. And for this particular item there is no public hearing required but it does require planning commission and town council review. And as far as the standards are concerned for a CSBM amount, it cannot adversely affect development and it needs to preserve the sign plan that's in place. It should not adversely affect surrounding land uses, not conflict with the flexibility intended for the CSPs and promote the other purposes of CSPs that are outlined in the code. And as far as staff is concerned, we reviewed it and we felt that met the criteria in the code. We recommend approval with conditions. Planning commission, when they reviewed it, they generally concur with staff, but recommended changes to one of the conditions regarding the placement of exempt umbrellas and what should be on the umbrellas on the premises. And they also recommended condition number six, which is in their resolution as well as the town council resolution regarding how staff and administratively reviews and accepts the specific side details for the retail tenants on the mall because we haven't received the design package for it. And Joe Craig-Bocker and Chris Lumbly are here to represent the applicant. Thank you. Thank you, Joe Craig-Bocker and Chris Lumbly is here at the table with me. So this is the non-exempt signage for the Western Hotel, as well as the conference center. This packet does not include Wildwood, which is done separately. And so it's basically a package that you have that is been long awaited from Weston finally approving all the look and feel of the signage and the locations and so on. It is approved brand standard signage some of these columns, the so-called directional signs that are shown on the sign schedule. Let me say this. So on the sign schedule we go like basically level by level. Here's the mall level. Here's all the signs on the mall and they're the locations. And then just kind of up in the building. And although shown in the plan as being kind of black or dark lettering on a white background, these directional signs such as the one on the moral level on kind of this second sheet, or maybe it's in the first sheet of your packet, which has the Weston, Shops and Restaurants and the Arrow. It's actually their kind of their back, packet which has the Weston shops and restaurants and the arrow is actually there kind of their back or their typical background kind of a you know gray which is shown in the plan with the with the letters being white or you know light relief so it's kind of shown in you know, reverse detail there. That's the only thing that's I thought was maybe not quite clear. The standards seem to be fairly straightforward. We've we did a we worked with Jim and did a matrix of the existing signage at the Wildwood, both in the number of signs, the square footage of the signs, and then compared that to what we're proposing, and there's a substantial reduction in both the number of the signs, and the square footage taken up by the signs. And so the standards not adversely affect the sign plan. And again, it's a reduction that's consistent with the brand standards, would not adversely affect the surrounding uses. Clearly, the uses aren't changing in the surrounding area. It doesn't conflict with the purpose of the sign plan. Again, given the substantial reduction in the number and the size of the signage, feel we've dressed that standard and no special benefits being conferred by the proposed amendment. There was one clarification that I just wanted to make sure we're all on the same page on the relates to the retail sign plan. And the retail sign plan is kind of a framework within which the tenants will come in and apply for their individual permits. And currently under the so-called internal sign plan portion of the approved plan. There's a limitation of 4.5 square feet if your frontage is less than 30 feet. The actual code standard is 6 feet. So that's, I think the only change that we're asking on the retail is that it would be consistent with the code standard, which is you get six square feet if you have 30 or less than 30 linear feet. And if you have more than 30 or one more feet, then you have with the code otherwise allows. And then request that the town council delegate authority to the community development director to make minor adjustments in the plan primarily as a response of some of the, for example, we don't have the finals on the snowmask kitchen signage and so on, but to make minor adjustments rather than going back through a comprehensive sign plan amendment, which is, you know, two-step process and fairly lengthy. So if you have any questions, that's in my presentation. Thank you. One question I have when you talk about having the applicants individually come and do the application for their sign. What is it cost to that and is it something that is the right way to do that? Or should we have it more general that says you can fit into this category instead of having each one do a sign plan? What do you guys... Well, we made some... I mean, the filing fees $100 a paper set for that. Yeah, the CSP is a can to like the land use application for the signs and then individual sign permits are the actual kind of like building permits for the sign so they pay a hundred bucks for the sign permit. When they're ready to submit their specific sign details, but at least we have a program to follow a uniform design program to follow at least for the retail tenants along the mole. Is that a one time only charge or is that an annual? It's per tenant. But it's a one time amount. Okay, good time. One time. And that helped us, although a lot of the tenants have been determined, you know, that at least gives us some flexibility when tenants change and so on for them to come in with their plan. And then the amended CSP, so-called, has, and they're largely based on the existing one. You know, it's going to be, you know, a wood sign and so we've got a representative sample. Actually, have a couple of the signs that are in the back of the packet. Those are not specifically being applied for right now, but those are kind of representative of what it's going to look like. And lighting issues only signs. I didn't see anything in there. We're not asking for anything other than with code allows. Okay. Fred? So as I understand it, the only difference between what staff had recommended and what the Planning Commission recommended is the obligation of a new tenant to come before the community planning officer. And he has a discretion to approve that tenant sign. Is that right? For their particular sign permits, right? But that's the only difference between staff and planning commission. I think in our draft, we didn't have have that recommend recommendation number six or condition number six so they planning commission added that to give Steve the flexibility to review those if he feels it's consistent with these design standards. Are you comfortable with that? Does that make sense to you? Yeah, this is kind of a weird, I mean, before she yet. I'm sorry. You need to talk into the microphone, sir. Thanks. It was an unusual application and that the CSP covered a hotel, as well as these accessory retail spaces. So the retail spaces weren't ready for their applications. So we decided to kind of move their applications down the way to an administrative approval separate from the CSP. and this is the way we set it up. Okay. On those individual signs and I don't remember all the detail in that CSP that took forever to work on. Walls can we, well remember those days. Can these signs be backlit like the Starbucks that's in here or not? Microphone. So I don't remember the day to anything that's important to. I think for the hotel sign, there was no limited signs other than the sign. Yeah there's no public-related signs except for there's a backlit the Weston on the Port of the Shared front and then I think there's a like a tenant directory sign that's lit, but that's just internally lit, so that it's easier to read. Yeah, it's backlit. Certainly none of the retail signs are proposed to be eliminated. Okay. Except there is, and Chris can maybe speak to this better than I can, there is exterior lighting obviously on the walls, on the wall that maybe, I don't know if it's directional or not. No, and it also has to comply with the ordinances. Right. The sign code says that the camp proposal is an elimination, but the amount of direct light cast to areas other than the sign itself should be minimized. It sells. There should be no sign elimination permitted within the town that cast a red green or blue hue. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. But if you want to prohibit that. No, no, no, no, no. I don't want to prohibit it. It looks like it would be indirect types of lighting. Yeah, just make sure you know as part of this sign, you know, lighting code and that kind of stuff. Motion for approval. Second. Second by Fred and motion by Markey. Second by Mr. Cooker. Any other discussion? All those in favor of resolution number 27. Please sign if I the saying aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? That's unanimously. Sorry we were so tough on you. Just the beginning. Well staff did a good job so we're very well prepared to go through it quickly. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you. I just assumed you had a mining director. Absolutely. That's an authority. Makes a lot of sense. Thank you all. Thank you. I'm just assuming you have a mining director. Absolutely. I think that's an authority. Makes a lot of sense. We're going to move on to item five. Capital Project Update. Mr. Walker. Russ. Could I just give a quick introduction for this item and the two transportation related items. Again, tomorrow, as you mentioned, Bill, we have at least a full morning of budget discussions. And part of the budget is a budget plan and again it should be connected to your strategic priorities. May of this year you approved a strategic plan and we want to give you an update on the number of these projects, some of which are budgeted, some of which you may want to further consider tomorrow. So we wanted to give you a quick update before you really roll up your sleeves and talk dollars tomorrow. So both of these related items, this is an update, but again, it may be something that you want to discuss further in terms of whether to fund or not fund when we roll up our sleeves tomorrow. Thank you. As Russ pointed out all the projects that are in this particular update or within the strategic plan, I wasn't going to read through these. I assume you've read all this stuff. So I just thought I'd just highlight a couple things or actually be fairly minimal in some cases. I think everybody knows about the brush creek wood road roundabout. What I've been doing for the last since 2006 is I put the $800,000 share that the town always is obligated to contribute to this particular roundabout and I just keep pushing it a year because as you know, the place is at a standstill over there but I think actually once related closes on the property, they'll probably be conversations about finishing the design for that roundabout. And then I don't think it'd be pretty difficult to get it constructed in 2013, but maybe some utility components could be done. But I would imagine that they're going to come forward and we'll talk about that next year if they do close. So that's the story on that roundabout. Any questions? Is there any debate about the cost share at this point? Is there any comment? I don't know. I mean, that's very black and white. And again, the total commitment was 2 million. And we've already contributed 1.2. So 800,000 is what's left? Yeah, the 1.2 was for the bridge. It was already built. 800,000 was for the roundabout. And the way the agreements, space filled agreements read is they're responsible for every dollar that exceeds 800,000. And the district is also actively engaged in this discussion since there's a water ensuer line that goes with this project. That's what you're saying. Has to be done first before the roundabout and go in most likely. You know, you told me. I'm not 100% sure of all the triggers. I just understand that I think that's something we would prefer, but I'll let Dress address that. It's been part of the planning that goes with it. And the water district is fully capable of ensuring that they get what they need. Good. Two covers are not intertwined. They could build around about and tear it up to put in the utilities and build a new round about it. Right, but the smart way generally, at least this one seems to be... To not tear it up. To tear it up. To the utilities and force. Fred, do we have the 800,000? Yes. That's his budget. That's his budget. That's his budget. Okay. In 2013. Yeah, back in 2007, we were thinking about building the roundabout. The utilities, at that time, the utilities would have been done in the fall followed by the roundabout, the following spring. Okay. by the roundabout the following spring. The second one is the brush creek out creek roundabout, which has always been a part of our capital plan for years and right now there aren't any developer contributions this particular roundabout. It'd be something to be 100% funded by the town. And if we were to construct a single lane roundabout similar to the same size as the brush creek high line roundabout, for example, it's about a 2.4 million dollar project. And Lee Barger with SGM was designed a bunch of roundabouts, including that one, suggested that we look. It's actually, it's called, they're called mini roundabouts. I think you referred to it, I'd refer to it here and here's a midi. And essentially it's just a smaller, it's a smaller roundabout that actually allows for a transversible center island because trucks have to get over and that sort of thing. And there are about four or five examples in the United States and the nice thing about it is that if it is feasible and we're just working on it now, it could be done with almost within the existing foot of asphalt that's out there. And so as opposed to 2.4 million, it's possible we could do it for a little bit under a $200,000. Right now we're taking traffic counts out there, what we also need to do. I promise it's really funny when you see my language in here 2020. Time flies, it was in 2000 that you see my language in your 2020 time flies. It was in 2000 that we were talking about a 2020 plan. I should have counted it to 20, I should have made it to 20, 30 or something. But it's actually all going to be based on what the base field is built out will be. And of course, I think they're going to be coming in with a new application. But I think the important thing we need, well I shouldn't say sorry, they will, right now with their current application we need to go back and recheck the the accounts there do counts out on the intersection now and make sure that it's possible for a we're going to call it a midi roundabout because the one we've looked at down here is actually bigger than what is called a mini to see whether it can accommodate those traffic counts or not and the other thing that we're proposing but we need to do a little bit more work, is the possibility actually doing a test out there next summer. Since we already have the asphalt, we can, through striping and also some raised rumbles, trip stuff, we can actually test that roundabout to make sure it's going to work. And we've, for example, had the, we've met with a fire district and they've taken a ladder truck through there. There are some other tweaks that my truck drivers, operators have suggested. So, that's the beauty of it. We could test it and make some tweaks. And if it looks like it's something that would work, we actually probably build it in the fall of 2013. In that case, that roundabout is fully funded or can be fully funded within the road fund. What we usually do is come back to the council in the spring with the list of projects. Right now we have approximately $520,000 for the projects we do next summer and next, the next council meeting will sort of have a draft list of roads we would like to overlay and that sort of thing. But in the spring is when we finalize it and if we to, for example, if we determine that it's something that's feasible and we want to build it, there's money in the road fund to do it. Currently just so you know and you'll see it in the budget tomorrow when you go over the road fund, there's a little over $500,000 of uncommitted funds in the road fund in 2017. So it could be possible. Well, now let's talk about the roundabout. We had a lot of issues with that, when we put into the entrance of snowmass and then we got the yellow rumble, strippy things and because trucks couldn't. Well, let me explain that when I made the mistake of thinking that if we actually did a different texture for that apron, people would abide by the texture and actually drive around the roundabout. I was kind of urged by several members of my staff that might be difficult to plow. So what I should have done and what I want to, next time we build a roundabout in here, I'm putting in a proper apron and those ugly rumble strips will go away and the roundabout will function as design. It functions actually today as design because people don't drive over that. I'm not aware of any really major issues that I'm around about. The trucks, which that's what it's supposed to go. Actually, the trucks can go around it. Actually, if I truck can go around that roundabout, that's a single lane, 130 foot inscribed circle roundabout. And it can handle the truck traffic that comes in here today. This is a creative idea where, you know, and again, this relates to a number of capital items we've discussed, where we knew we really didn't have the capital dollars for a multi-million dollar project. This is kind of a creative look, really taking a cue from Europe and creating a unique roundabout. And again, what we're going to eventually suggest and present to you is maybe give this an experiment at a lower cost of several tens of thousands, see if it works before investing further. But again, if this did work, it'd be several hundred thousand dollars versus several million dollars. Okay. I think it's great. Thanks, huh? Okay. And that should take care of the intersection issues in the afternoon or? The biggest issue of everybody knows down there and is that intersection left-and-turn on the brush creek is an LOS F it fails. And as you know, those who drive that they'll back up, you know, especially Christmas will back all the way up to Anderson Ranch. So that's that's the issue we're trying to solve is actually create gaps so that traffic can get out. Good. out. Okay. Okay. Welcome, Sun. Yes sir. If you do build a mini round about, is it expandable to the maxi round about that? Yeah, you could do that. Okay, so we're not throwing the money away if we are new invest in that. You only have to tear it up and no. Well, you'd have to tear out. You'd have to tear out. A lot of the signage would be the same, but you would have to, whatever improvements we did to the intersection, as far as the splitter islands and the central island and those things you tear out. So that money would be wasted. On the other hand, since this round of it, unlike a full size round of it, does not require retaining walls. It does not require us to replace the culvert. Those things, if we decided to go to sometime in the future to a single full lane roundabout, those are the expensive items and you have to actually do a lot more work on the approaches. And so that would be new money, but you would be tearing out whatever you put in there for the midi. And my other concern with that has always been is the pedestrian access across the roundabout. Yes. I know you're sensitive to that. No, actually, it's kind of interesting. When we were looking at the full lane roundabout, it almost meant we had to move the bus stops further up and down the hill. In fact, the bus stops where they are the day is where they really need to be. There was a roundabout in Portugal that actually has a bus pull out within the roundabout. So for example, the uphill bus stop just when you're walking out of seasons four and our current midi roundabout design includes that bus stop and you just come into the roundabout and the bus goes into that and comes back into the roundabout. That was a Portugal example, so it keeps that one right there where it really should be. And then the other one is where it is today too. And then just slightly downhill of the current intersection would be a pedestrian crosswalk. And the pedestrian would have refuge in the middle because there's a splitter aisle in there. And that's actually been our struggle for when we've been looking at this is where the bus stops are and where the pedestrian is cross. Actually this helps that. This goes hand in hand with what David will speak about in a minute, which is improving pedestrian access at a number of intersections including this one. And the only other thing that I'd be concerned with is the line sites. When you're either pulling out of our center here or pulling out of the gas station looking left, the line sites of traffic coming up, the road is fairly reduced at that point because the BJ Adams is property coming out. I'm talking about the brush creek out creek one now. I was talking thinkable brush creek out creek one now. Oh, I was talking about the thing. That's right. Same kind of thing, but there was a massive issue there. Actually, and we've presented the midi round about concept to staff, and I've also presented to the firehouse. Obviously, we would need to include raft, but we wanted to get this far first. And the fact, somebody brought up, you know, the line of sight, taking the left hand turn from Alcrete on the brush creek isn't that good, but actually the absence of good line of sight is one of the reasons why traffic slows down, so it's actually not necessarily a bad thing. Yeah, okay, perfect. Sound good idea? Yep, yep, yep, yep. Thanks. The next item is fall. Excuse me? Could you do it this fall? No. If we do it, we want to do the experiment right. The last thing we need to do is an experiment that fails and then they'll never happen. With the wayfinding signage plan, if you remember this past spring, I presented the update on that plan. We actually developed the wayfinding signage plan in 2008, but because of lack of money it was put on hold. In April we started meeting with stakeholders and I've listed them there. We met with mountain operations and low enterprises, but then we've ski company mountain operations suggested we meet with ski company mountain operations. So we met with them. We also now met with related Dwayne Romero. We've met as I've listed here with marketing and the police. And so we've gotten all of their ideas. And then what Julie, Kolar and I will do is take those ideas and come up with the next iteration of wayfinding signage plan and then take it back to those same stakeholders as a group. And I'll probably take a couple meetings before that's finalized and then we'll bring up the next iteration of wayfinding signage plan, and then take it back to those same stakeholders as a group. And I'll probably take a couple of meetings before that's finalized, and then we'll bring it back to the council for your approval, and it's fully funded within the road fund. Thank you. And again, the years we would be. Well, yeah, we thought it's going to be, a part of it's going to have a lot to do with what happens with this intersection out here because that's one of five critical nodes where people get lost and we have a whole big signage plan there. So I kind of the way I did it was I did planning in 2012, sort of the first implementation in 2013 and the second implementation in 2014. But a little bit might depend on what happens out here with this intersection. And if it goes, the sooner it goes the more we can do a complete job. If you don't want to put signage out here and then take it all down when it changes from a four way intersection to around about. Mr. Wilkinson. No, refresh my memory. Does this include any of the pedestrian or trail signs or is this specifically limited to the? It's pretty much way finding that tells people how to get the ski area bases, how to get to lodging, how to get the central points in town. It does not, it doesn't include any regulatory signs or street signs, but it does a second component of it is actually wayfinding signs within the public right away that direct people to trail hits. It's on a parallel course We're not quite there yet because I don't have any money for that one and it comes up in the trails thing a little bit when we get to that at the end But we think that's important to now if anybody's tried to tell somebody how to get to the rim trail up by the mountain, they'll drive by the Conoco and there's a road up there, take a right and there's a little few little benches and find your way up the hill. I mean, that's kind of what happens today or the other way is even worse. How do you get to the rim trail above the crossings? Well, go park in the parking lot, there a little What are you know how it just would be nice to have we agree we understand it we agree to talk about that we agree And that I mean when I get to it you'll you'll get my view on that For a couple years now the council especially Markey is asked for this as far as the next item which is asset capital replacement program also the financial as far as the next item which is asset capital replacement program also the financial advice. Recently the financial advisory board is really recommended that we develop a replacement program for all the buildings that we currently own. As you all know the only buildings that really do have a replacement program are those owned and maintained by the housing authority. And so I really don't have anybody. I have actually Nick is capable of doing it, but right now he's under staff. So Nick and I figured out that we felt the best company to do it is actually that component of Schmiedgegaard Meyer that's actually doing it for the ski company and actually the one that helped our energy audit. And so we talked to them and they've produced a proposal that would cost about $43,000 to do a capital basement program for all of the buildings that you see listed under this section. And right at the moment, that's not funded, I believe. We did put it into our, we put it into our one time and we'll get into this discussion tomorrow that the short version of tomorrow with the general fund is we're still pretty constrained in terms of what we can fit in as reoccurring costs in the general fund. But we do have some flexibility. You do have some flexibility with one time costs. So this will be something for you to consider with those one time costs. And I believe we have this in the proposed 2012. Opposed it in 2012, okay. So, and again, we talked about what the scope was. And first I kind of looked at the number and said, wow, that's a lot for a consultant just to create a replacement program. But this is more than just SGM. This is actually engaging contractors to give numbers on, you know, what would it actually take to replace an HVAC system in 20 years? Or what would it actually take to replace a roofing system? So it's not a paper exercise, actually. It's a pretty detailed analysis. They actually part of it is actually so that, you know, basically doing a condition report on everything that we have. Because if you don't know that, you don can't go back to the year, it was built and say, okay, that thing's supposed to last 20 years. Well, if you want to take the easy way out, you take what we paid for town hall, due to depreciation schedule 20 years. I mean, we think that will come into effect and the government has some pretty clear guidelines on depreciation. And then we put that in the fund versus spending 43,000. At least that better. Typically what you end up with, anyway, typically you don't reserve for replacing a whole building. I'll just take the recreation center for a minute. Well, maybe you don't in town government, but I can tell you health care we do. Okay, well, the FAB recommendation. 30 year replacement to proceed. The FAB recommendation is since we couldn't afford to be honest to do that, is the presumption would be if we had to completely redo town hall, we'd have to go ask the voters. However, it is prudent and reasonable to plan on the systems that will need to be replaced, i.e. a rough i.e. an HVAC system, carpeting, fixtures, and that would be the level of detail that would be getting into the bigger challenge I would tell you, regardless of if and again we're going to talk a lot more tomorrow about facility maintenance and we will be kind of giving you a game plan for how to fund an additional position here because Nick is perfectly capable of doing this and we'll talk more about it tomorrow. The real challenge will be and we've gotten into this in quite a bit of detail and we'll talk more about it tomorrow. The real challenge will be, and we've gotten into this in quite a bit of detail, and you'll hear more from Rick with the rec center, for example. What's an appropriate subsidy? What do we need for capital replacement? And the real challenge will be whether it's the roof system and the systems we can anticipate replacing, or if you further went and you assume you wanted to replace the entire building is funding that. Because that would be a reoccurring cost. If they kind of took a pragmatic approach and said, okay, you know, we don't have all the money we need to replace all the systems, for example, in the Rec Center, let's start with a number that we can't afford and begin, you know, contributing it and put that into a pot. The other thing that FAB had was, if we had to fully replace the building as Marquis talking about, he said, well, then we're doing it twice because currently we're paying bonds off the payoff, the original construction. So you'd almost be adding that same amount again. And as Bruce points out, we can't afford it anyway. So the, I mean, just to finish responding to your question because it's a good one that was debated with NFAB was they looked at the replacement schedule with in housing for example and again Joe takes kind of a pragmatic approach of you know what are the systems we can anticipate in budget for, and say the next 20 years. And again, they and we felt that would be an adequate approach, but still will give us a tremendous challenge in terms of how to fund that on a reoccurring basis. But probably it was a good idea to look at those things. I guess what Mark is driving at, we're pretty confident that it's worth spending the money with a consultant to really get the numbers instead of taking a first blush with our staff. Well, maybe the other approach is that if you can't, you're telling me, okay, we may spend 43,000 and we still don't have the money to fund it, so then the question is to what level could you begin to develop a funded appreciation expense item. And then that's the number that we work towards year one. Because I almost think, okay, I bring you, bring me in a consultant. The consultant is going to tell, and we're going to pay that consultant 43,000. And then you're going to tell me he's going to say, well, it's going to take X number of million. Right. And then you're going to tell me he's going to say, well, it's going to take X number a million. Right. And then you're going to say, well, we don't have the money. So would it be wiser just to say, well, what could we afford to begin to start funding depreciation? And then say, well, you know, we're really on a, this is really not where we need to be. So we try to know what that gap is. And then as we began to build up more reserves, after we get through this recessionary period, then you realize what a funded depreciation schedule looks like. Let me just so I understand what the study is supposed to do. They are going to go through building by building and say, they go through system by system roof, HVAC, and say, okay, this has an expected life of ex years. And then they are going to go out at least at today's prices and see what the cost to replace that particular system will be. In addition, that's correct. In addition to if there's something that we, if that item has a longer useful wipe, but we need to repair it, we'll get that priority of things that we should do immediately as opposed to. I mean, for example, there are a couple of one times you'll see tomorrow, some HVAC stuff at the Rec Center. I got a thunder, the thing doesn't work. The roof is leaking in town shop and we keep making repairs to it. That needs to be replaced. I've got actually a whole list of examples from Nick of stuff that isn't lasting anywhere near to use the life because we haven't had the ability to maintain it. So out of the report we'll get things, we'll be able to prioritize it. Even though we won't be able to fund a replacement program for all buildings all at once, but at least know which items we better get on first, or we're going to pay money later like we're doing now. Marky, I wouldn't have done that. Just, we'll be a devil's advocate here. He said Nick has the capability to do it. So the question would be what would we have to move off a Nick's plate and have additional resources in order that he could do it? Right. See, right now, Nick doesn't know what is on his plate. All he does today is put up his. He does completely crisis management. There's no preventive maintenance happening. We just take care of whatever is breaking today, and we prioritize those items. So yeah, he has the capability of doing it. I can't tell you what we're going to put off. It's just more deferred maintenance. And the winter time he's spending a lot of time making sure some else systems work as well as the rec centers. I can't tell you exactly what, but we haven't. I really can't produce the time. If we implement the game plan that we're proposing tomorrow to fund a additional facility maintenance position, we'll be moving in the right direction. What, and I've pushed on this is okay, Nick, if we get you this person, do you suddenly have the time to do more proactive? And I think the honest answer, and I've pushed in a number of different ways, and maybe that's putting it nicely, is he probably, with one additional person, will be getting to the things that we're simply not getting to, that are costing us dollars. And we still won't be getting to the things that we're simply not getting to that are costing us dollars. And we still won't be foolish, right? But I don't think when I've pushed that we're buying time to actually be proactive in that function. But I think my expectation would be is that we are getting to the items that need to be maintained, that may not be maintained if we're not adequately staffed there. John? I just want to mention that, you know, Pickham County has done this with all their buildings, and they may be a good resource for you to check in with them to see what they did. They have a 10-year plan for each of their buildings, and not just the building, but all the electrical repair work, any of the interior carpeting, things of that. So it may be more extensive than what you're thinking about, but you might want to check in with the county. See how they got to where they did it and it just don't like us having to reinvent the wheel. Yeah, well, actually we're not reinventing the wheel because actually SGM is doing, as a matter of fact, that they, we made the phone call, they were meeting with the building maintenance people with the ski company, and they're doing a much more full on a program with the ski company. It's doubled a triple amount of work we're doing. I knew we couldn't afford all of that, so basically we met with Dan Richardson, who was the head of that team. And I talked to the ski company a little bit, we've kind of paired it down to what we think we need, but it's not the full blown program. And basically, SGM isn't developing this on air back. They've already done it with the ski company. Good. We can ask the county though. Jason? Yes, and I actually got this stuff over a year ago. At Jody Smith's. Yeah, I've met with Jody and they do a good job over there. And I guess John brings up something. Do you find, Russ, the other governments do this or don't do this type of... I would tell you this is a challenge particularly with any constrained budget. This is a challenge to fund, not necessarily creating the capital replacement. I feel fortunate in this community that we've done a very good job with vehicles. We, Joe, I think has done a very responsible job with housing, but we've grown. We've grown with the rec center, we've grown here, we have deferred maintenance. So you know I think it is something we need to do. It's a deferred liability. It's kind of hit us. In fact it'll begin hitting us tomorrow where we'll have a number of light items where we're gonna say we need to make some fixes and we've deferred it for a couple of years in these stuff for times, but now we've got to pay the piper. Okay. Okay. Any else on this? Moving on? Um, the entryway planning, I have to admit since our April meeting, I haven't done a ton of work on this in part. I guess I should probably talk to Russ. Is it? Huh. I guess I should probably talk to Russ. The council asked me to go out there and talk to the community about what they wanted down here because it's been four years since we talked to the community about what they wanted. And so I was thinking to myself before I sat down with Leslie, who was the originally designer for that whole entryway thing and I was saying to her, well, if I go do what council directed and I don't have any money to build anything down there and I'm always assuming public money. Then I'm going to have to do it another four years because we're not going to build anything down there. And actually when I met with Leslie and she was a lot more optimistic. I mean she says that the world's changed. You know, it doesn't always have to be done with public money. I don't know if you're aware of it, she's a part of that whole downtown and development, third in Glenwood and pulled all those projects together and all that work that's going down there. And so I suggested that, Leslie meet with Russ and Steve as a good resource, our new community development director. And so we met the other day and we kind of kicked, we kind of thought we ought to take a look at this whole area including the rodeo arena area, wells, the visitor center, so a little bit with, you know, the new eyes. And so we haven't done much work as it says in this particular. And I tried to articulate what I heard at that April meeting about what council members thought was important. But if you remember, I had a long list of program elements. So we, that, I'm going to call it the empty way team that we met last week. Things we really need to go out and scope a scoping process for this. And maybe there is some private, public private stuff and maybe we can get some stuff going down there. I think actually, you know, on a parallel basis, a lot of what I've been hearing, talking about the wayfinding, with the wayfinding group and all those stakeholders is, geez, we really need a visitor center. And so we've just kind of, and you all said, make sure that all visitor center areas, a part of the entry way planning process. So we'll put the two together, but if you want to add to this one, it'll- But just in general, the most constrained fund we'll talk about tomorrow. I mean, not just constrained, we're upside down and we have been upside down with the real estate transfer tax. And this is with proposed cuts that you'll see tomorrow is there's still things that you've talked about that you would like to see done that. I think we would like to see done. This is an area where we may want to actively go out and you know obtain some grant dollars or go for some grant dollars through GoCo. You know I think what we what we conclude in and jump in hot is breaking this up into a couple phases. Want a scoping phase and you feel comfortable sharing what a top set number for that. I think we could sharing what a top set number of that would be. I think we could do that for top set of $15,000. So a scoping process, but that would include some research in terms and bringing some information to the table in terms of what are some creative ideas in terms of multi-use facilities that could accommodate rodeo but also other functions. What are different ideas in terms of, you know, how could you cost effectively and close a facility if that graded greater utility? So bringing some information to the table, doing some what if work, we might be able to work that number down. It is not in your budget tomorrow. But something we wanted to put on your plate, it might be something that, you know, we would want to go after some grant dollars for to fund. So the first phase would be scoping. Second would be okay, we hear from the community in terms of their needs, their thoughts, their ideas. The big issue would be, is there a desire to have an enclosed facility or is an open air facility and then move forward which would be a bigger number depending on the answer to that question for some design and planning. But this is not funded tomorrow or we're not proposed to be funded but you may want to give us some direction on it. Going back to last meeting and the discussion we've had specifically with the ice skating kind of stuff for the winter time, do we have some of those things in plans? Oh, yeah. Yeah, get that going this year. That would be, well, oh, okay. This winter. Yeah, two separate things. One, yes, I think ice skating would be, we would assume, would be part of this planning process longer term. Right. Right. Tomorrow, you asked us for a budget, an operating budget. Right. So the town would integrate this with it in our rec program. So you have a budget tomorrow with some operating assumptions with that that you could take a look at. So that's separate from this planning process and that only contemplates doing what has historically been done from a physical standpoint. Okay, I should. Jason and then Fred. And that budget that you're talking about for the ice would cover the 2013-14 winter, not 2012-13. Yeah, in my understanding, the way I was directed, and I was at that meeting, you approved up to $25,000. This winter, but you wanted to know what the commitment to be if the town took it over and succeeding winners, and that's a budget we'll talk about tomorrow. This is all based on some very recent discussions with Cersei. And just to comment on that process idea, in order to not have the expense associated with a $15,000 scoping. Maybe, and we can talk about it tomorrow, but flip-flopping those first two steps, do the community outreach and get that feedback to then inform the scoping process. And then the other way around, because when we did the whole entryway process, I think anytime I've gone out there in public out, I say, what do you guys think? Right. It's all over the map, but we'd like for them to be able to react to something. So that's why- Or at least some ideas. Yeah, some ideas and they were- like on the research and scoping, Leslie estimated at her reduced rate to be about 10,000, not to exceed 10,000, and then after that 5,000 for the public outreach, we kind of think that's the product, that's the order in which we should do things. And then ice rinks, multi-purpose facilities, rodeos, all the stuff that's on that list, would be a part of that research bit. All of a 25 pound bag. Well, it's not all going to fit there. And do you plan on going sole source to that planner or doing an RFP for that planning exercise? Well, I was hoping we could go sole, the way the towns rules are and sometimes I've wanted to go sole source and it's exceeded $25,000 and I have to go get process permission. The way the way it works in the town, if it's over $25,000, it's an automatic, you bid it out. We can bid out something underneath that I guess the reason why I Was proposing Leslie Bethel design planning as she was in on the beginning and has all the background for that whole thing That's why but you're right we could if you if the council sodas are we could put out put it out for We could put out, put it out for a bid. Her rate in here, I know I used to pay her 150. Her rate in here is 100 bucks an hour. Very good. Red 150 bucks. I want to go back to it. I used to pay her. I want to go back to something you said a bit earlier about the 120 entryway facility. And you said, as you were talking to people, various stakeholders about the wayfaring sign, these various stakeholders are saying, gosh, we need an entry way facility. Well, if we're talking about trying to put together a public private partnership in some way, why can't we engage the various stakeholders in helping us with the entryway? You know, have a position for the West and have a position for base village, have a position for the vice-roy, but have all of the stakeholders in this community participate with us in creating an entryway that will help everybody. And that's what we talked about, or maybe I think that's possible. Well, I mean, just for example, especially with the visit. Right now in the environment we're in, and again, the big question for tomorrow is, what's our new normal is, partnership even beyond capital dollars, is can we find partners from an operational standpoint, whether it's ACES, ski company, people that So, you know, can we find partners from an operational standpoint, whether it's ACES, ski company, people that might, you know, and I'm talking about the information facility, there was a new one, you know, could we find a partner to help offset that operational cost? Well, you know, one of the stories I've heard is that people go into the wrecks and people come into town and go into the wrecks center and say, where's this? where's that? Well, it strikes me that it is in everybody's best interest, every business in this town, every major business in this town, to have a facility where somebody needs to get directed to the vice-roy, there's a vice-roy representative there and they send them there. There's a base village representative they send them there. Or they all fund the one person that does the same thing. Well, right. But all I'm saying is, I don't think it should be our responsibility alone to do that, because they need it as much or more than we do. We agree, and we think this is one, as Hunt was mentioning, I don't know where the dollars would come from if you said, find the money out of the town coffers to pay for a new information facility or a new multipurpose recreational facility slash rodeo. We think the only way forward is it's an active dialogue about partnership. And you've got all these new facilities. I mean, the vice for is reasonably new, the Weston is new, whatever is going to be in base village is going to be new. So I would think that they be very happy to participate in something like this. We agree. So the only, the funding question to be clear on this is, and we can again, can talk about it more tomorrow, but is do you want to take a dump star in terms of this public scoping process? Again, it's your call in terms of whether this has a budget or not and kind of going through and hearing this it was interesting to kind of hear specific examples of what's being done in terms of multi-purpose facilities, what works, what doesn't work. And again, the thing I'm really interested in is, okay, that was a beautiful facility in Edwards, for example, that does everything a rec director would love. But what does it cost to operate? And so bringing that information so people are providing informed input into a process. If we were to go through this scoping phase hunt, what's the timeline? Would you say three months? Six months? Well, I think we probably spend longer than time. I spend most of this wear I would think. On a scoping? Three, four? Yeah. I mean, there's a research element and then you would want to do... It's just you have to spend public engagement. 40 hours a week on it. I think you're going to do the scoping on two or three months and then you're going to schedule public meetings. And when it happened with the first entry way, other stuff came up when we changed things. I don't remember the location, the pool changed the whole entry way. That's sort of thing. This might be one, too. I think we owe you a specific scope. We just want to hear it. We're not going to do you want us to further develop this idea. The other wild card that we don't have in the budget is if something happens across the street in terms of a transaction. That could be very soon, but we don't know. Because of that, we can't put it into a budget. You might say if that happens, come back and talk to us. Well, we all know what's going to happen. The question becomes when. And my thought is if we can get a head of the game with some scoping work, and we now we have the opportunity to discuss a community benefit. If we knew what we're talking about. Oh, I see. But that's where I've gone. So I wouldn't mind seeing a little bit more ink put on a piece of paper on this one. Okay. Oh, there's a decent one. Oh, no, but nothing. Okay, that's it. And the last item is the trail's master plan. I was at the council meeting on September 10th when you all were talking about management issues, mainly dogs on least dogs off leash and that sort of thing. And I heard Jason bring up, well, do we really want to spend this, or the way it was presented by Russ is that this dog issue will be included in the trails master plane, which is the appropriate way for that to happen. And Jason brought up that, geez, do we really need to spend all this time and effort on creating a master plan? I thought it was a legitimate question on his part. When I, Annie and I sat down, we looked at what the components of a trail's master plan are and Annie and I are kind of working on them anyway. For example, I think you definitely want have an inventory of the existing trail system which also have an inventory of the existing trail system, which also includes an inventory of the existing terrible signage we have out there. I think you want to have construction trail standards, which we've been working on and actually we've been working under some of the summer. You want to have a signage program. You want to have new trails that are proposed and I've listed kind of the general areas where they might occur. And then you want to have a management section with exception to the management section. And I work on all this stuff anyway because I think it's important for the trail system. So what happened is that after we get those components done, I think we could turn around and turn it into a master plan without too much trouble on using staff time. When I've been out, I'm not obviously as much out on the trails when I used to live here now as I was before, but, you know, Annie and I have been out there in a lot of the areas where we think there's inaccuracies in the trails that we show on our map, for example, in Tom Blake on the western end, also on the eastern end, where the power line and all those areas are together. And when you're out there and you're listening to users and you guys are out there more than me, especially the guy second in from the right, you know, people having a clue where they're going, what they're doing, the signage is terrible. You couldn't go up there and enforce a question, there's no question with the signage we have now. I think the most important thing, and I've indicated in here, the first thing we do is go look for some grant money to do it. If I could literally replace all of our signage, I want to design it first so it looks good, but replace all of our signage out there. I'm not talking and creating signs at every five feet along the trail, but at the important intersections. I think that's the money that I, that would have the biggest impact on users, the multiple users of our trail system than any other thing I can do. We are trying, we are going at the word I'm saying, we are in layman's terms, GPSing certain sections of trail, because we know that there are corrections that need to be made. Steve Raus with the ski companies working with us. So we'll have a little bit better map next year. We'll be more accurate. But a lot of these things that are a part of a trails master plan we're doing anyway. And so I think it's reasonable to expect staff to basically write that up at the end. And some of the management issues we haven't been doing much work on and they can conjunction with the heart with the police department and Russ we can work on that too. But there's trail signage is the worst and that's what I'd love to be able to correct and end. We'll go out there from grant funding but we need to put together some costs for what it would take to replace all the signs. We're not going to do them in one year but I know I would pick some of the most well-traveled trails. I probably picked Tom Blake, the rim, and I go to the trails committee first and find out what are those areas. But signage is terrible. Give us an F and we should do something about that. And the other point with signage is it does need to be integrated or planned with what the ski company is doing. Absolutely, yeah. And with the county. We've met with the ski company, Steve's a little seated, Raus and a couple of meetings with men. So we, you know, it's the Sky Mountain Park which the county, picking county open space and trails it. It needs to be sort of a joint effort. Picking county open space and trail signage is better than hours. Skeet companies and better than hours of the three of us were the worst, but yeah, it needs to be coordinated. We just can't go off half-con. So this is one where there is not any money budgeted for it in the proposed budget tomorrow. Again, you may choose to change priorities or fund it in a different way. This might be one where you say, hey, staff, we challenge you to go out and find some grant dollars. I do have a call into Holy Cross. We'll be talking about that fund tomorrow. I've sat down with Holy Cross and gotten some pretty good expectations of what we might hope to use that for on a reoccurring base. This would be one given the input I've got that would be in the gray area. They said we're happy to fund new trails, but would they be happy to fund some signage, some new signage on those trails and they could have their presence. So that might be a fund and again, GoCo does have some dollars. So this might be one where you say staff would really challenge you to go out and find some dollars, but we do think it's something probably one of the most important things we can do with our trail system. John Wilkinson. I agree that it would be a good idea to look at trail grants. For example, this state of Colorado Trails Committee has a grant program for small planning grants, but you want to check their dates because there are deadlines for making application to them I don't know what that is, but I know that's out there and I think this what you're talking about really does be who they planning grant Yeah, I think we're all aware that summertime activities people are hiking biking They're using a lot of the stuff. So I think it is something that tomorrow will look at and probably give a priority for future years. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you, Hunt, for your time and energy in that. Thank you. We'll talk it over here. Mr. Davis. Next item we have goes with Mr. Peckler. It's Transportation projects update. Again, we have two memos for this just under one. I just want to jump in really quickly and I'm a Apologize. I have to jump out of the meeting at 530. Okay. Hopefully for just a short time and we'll come back assuming you're still going to be going when I'm done. But we could be able to buy five for you. Well, we're going to see about that. That's a challenge. Very good. Where are you going to be? Oh, so we'll see. Does he speak to it? Are you driving into town? Are you staying up? No, I'll be in snow mass. I do. It's just a hopefully a quick meeting I need to jump into. All right, Mr. Beckler. Thank you. Good evening, Council. Thank you for the time to meet with you. The first item is to review under your strategic plan to identify, prioritize design and plan for funding solutions for all significant pedestrian safety challenges by August of 2012. teaching challenges by August of 2012. We have gotten input from some members of the community about a couple of locations. We've discussed some locations internally among staff on what might be problematic pedestrian crossings, mostly along brush Creek Road. We've identified four of those locations. We've identified four of those locations. Russ is trying to see if we can load them up so that community can see the attachments that are to this in memo on page 32 through 35. But we've done a little bit of analysis. There's a lot of research on a report that literally goes to the manual on uniform traffic control devices, which is a national standard, much like a uniform building code for signage and road networks. And so, there we go. With that, any further ado, we might just go through them one by one and give you our comments. The first location is at Mountain View Employee Housing Complex. Just below the divide road intersection. Give a pointer date. No, well, maybe. Okay. So this is the access trail up into Mountain View complex. This is the lower Mountain View Road. This is the lower mountain view road. This is divide road here. We took a look at this location. This is a posted speed limit of 20 miles now until you hit up. There's a speed limit sign just somewhere right in this location. You can see of one pedestrian path that's already happening at this location right here. So what we were suggesting is connecting this downhill bus stop pullout that we've created as a temporary solution across from the shelter that we built a number of years ago and put in a pedestrian crossway here. There are cautionary signs warning of pedestrian activity both on the approach below and above the intersection. So that's already kind of taken care of. The traffic volume on the section of road is relatively low in the winter time at summer around 6,0802. That's average daily traffic volume. That's relatively low in road standards. But there is a high level of movement from this employee housing complex to the complex across the way as well as the mall and the center down the hill. So these are the recommendations we're making here at this location, is to add these pedestrian bars to define the crossing. Would you put in addition to just putting in the lines, would you put in signage right at the crosswalk, or do you think this whatever sign that you now have is adequate? Let me back up a little bit. When you read through the recommendations that are made by the report that we referenced earlier, if you wanted to do this absolutely right, you would go through a very extensive engineers survey and analysis of this location, which would take into a grade road condition, road width, traffic volume, pedestrian volume, et cetera, and then it would make some kind of recommendation on what level up to a signalized intersection. You might want to put it this location to make it as safe under the warts that are identified in their matrix. Staff is a little bit hesitant to begin placing objects in the roadway because then there's an assumption that it's yield to the pedestrian regardless. And in some cases, and when we get to far away road, that becomes a real big consideration. Line of sight, grades, road condition, all factor into something that may not, you don't wanna give the pedestrian a paul sense of security. I think Dave, also let me interject, is if you can see the hand on the screen, the other thing that I think Dave and his drivers and we've observed is some pedestrian traffic and this is something we've received public input on, we'll walk up the road and cross at this point and you can't see it in this picture is it's very difficult because of the topography to see up and over a high point of this road, which is somewhere in their day, we're a little bit further. So we're simply trying to communicate if you're going to cross here because you do have a much better line of sight uphill. The other big concern by a lot of drivers as well as residents of that area is, divide road is very, very tricky on a bad snow day. And why we didn't want to look at a crossing right here is if someone loses control, that vehicle is almost going straight at this bus stop. So we're trying not to put the crosswalk in a place where we have a history of issues with vehicles being able to control their breaking One day next one would be Wood Road You recognize which one it is Boy, can you expand the You recognize which one it is. Boy, can you expand the? You need to keep all. Go to the stand-up. Yeah, there you go. You almost had it. There you go. Ah, there you go. There you go. Next intersection is Woodroad intersection. And this one's probably is the location that has the highest pedestrian activity. It's probably the one that brought this topic to the forefront with the raft of bus stopping at the Conoco gas station and then ski company employees trying to go up to tree house crossing this way on the intersection. Vice Roy people going over to where the bridge is on the side rock over here. There's a lot of just general movement from base village in the mall to the center along this way. You also have Creekside Mountain View commuters that are trying to come down and access the center from Upper Brush Creek Road. So this location probably generated the most comments about establishing something here. We have been waiting for a long time for the roundabout to be installed here. And that's sort of an unfortunate victim of circumstance. But the roundabout provides a lot of relief for pedestrians in numerous studies in the deflection island as Hump was referencing earlier on. In the deflection island, it provides a safe haven and it's all like the recommendation we're making down a far away road. A pedestrian median island that's a safe point for them so that they cross one lane of traffic at a time. So the other attention is the uphill traffic and then they move to the downhill traffic and they cross as needed. It also reduces the total amount of asphalt that a person has to walk across to truly get out of the roadway. And in this case, in this location, this is probably some of the widest expansive asphalt we have in the community. So the recommendation here is to try and again, reinforce the pedestrian crossing on the uphill side of the intersection. We're suggesting adding cautionary signs to warn the motorists again of this activity, replacing these with much more definitive and defined crossbars so that it's really obvious to the pedestrians where we're trying to get them to go. And I, those are the things that we can control internally. Again, we're waiting for this roundabout design to move into construction phase. And we think that pedestrian elements in that design are going to address the problem. Dave, if you're coming down from the vice row, should you not cross over on this side? Do we not want to put a little pedestrian thing? Crosswalk? I think? And go over there because I don't know how you're going to get people not to go across the lower portion of brush creek if there's not a defined crosswalk up up in that bridge. Whatever one for my observations with signs and sometimes these things is that pedestrians take the shortest path. Yeah, they sure do. And you can put a crosswalk here, you can put one here, you can put one over here and one here, which these are repainted annually. And I believe there is a crosswalk that happens over here. Generally the pedestrians are going to take the shortest path. The vice-right people are really trying to get to this bus stop location, which is pulled way down here. So they're usually staying on this inside of the curve and not crossing the roadway. It's really mostly when the raft of bus stops there, and the ski company employees are trying to get up here where you get that sheeting of just humanity crossing the whole intersection. We're also trying to work, and again, for our raft of representatives, trying to get rafted. I saw that most recent email, David, to stop on the uphill side. We actually put the bus stop sign there so that people would cross on the correct side. So. Are you talking about what can be serious? Yeah, we ran a little bit of an experiment right here by using our route forers and designating them to stop here and tried to look at what the pedestrian activity was. How did they cross the road coming from the rodeo lot if they were getting off at this location? This seemed to be very effective, but we're after and I can't blame them. The grade for upper bus street road starts right in here. And if we're after is already started trying to get going to go up this hill, they're very nervous about making it up the road on bad days. Also, what they can never tell, and really the crux of it is, is that when they're stopped here and the road's already gone to hell, the guy has stopped. And he says, oh, I shouldn't have stopped here. If he starts trying to get going, he might slide downhill into this intersection. And that's what they really, really don't want to have happen. And that's why they're trying to use this more flatter part in this location. Another option that we're after throughout there is, well, we might entertain if you let us go to base village first and then go on to the mall. Particularly in the morning. Particularly in the morning, but normally bus routes don't like to mix it up because it's too complicated for everybody. You do the same thing all the time, but that's, I reference it because that was something they proposed and, you know, it is another option. Here's another way to deal with all these people trying to cost this road. However, the downside is, is this, these bus stops were originally designed for all the activity in these buildings. Not necessarily based village, we just focus on that because now ski school is down over there. But it was really designed so that dropping off to this commercial zone. It's the morning, you know, particularly between, say, seven and eight thirty when the raft of bus does stop here. We see the sheet flowing of pedestrians across and I think that makes us all apprehensive. And it's the time of the morning we don't have a heck of a our own field traffic though, really. Well what you have is, you have to remember a lot of ski school instructors are between 830 and 9. So they're starting to come in the peak traffic hour, AM hour, and that creates problems. And that's why you see them. Rest is right, a lot of the traditional workers are eight to four or whatever and so they're a little bit ahead of that peak. Yes. Could you just say again what you said about what might be a solution if they were allowed to go to base village first? What was the... Well they were offering that they would abandon this location. They would just come up, do the left, go into base village, come back out and go on up to the mall. But you still need to stop that service center. They would be suggesting that base villages transit facility is close enough to service that. To service that. I was just pointing out that this was originally for all of this over here. We sort of forget that as new things come along. We forget our history. So. John, Jason you done? I guess I would just say I'm inclined to still say that we need somehow a stop closer than base village to the center, but I'm willing to revisit this notion that they have to go to them all first. I know that was kind of a big visit, whether that's a PUD or some condition. Regardless, I think just because we've agreed that in the past doesn't necessarily make it means it makes sense today. So it seems reasonable to revisit that. I'm only being the messenger here. I've been wearing it. Are there any other people here somewhere adjacent? Well, let's keep that in the back, back of our mind then. But again, I think it is something that we have to talk about at some point. We hope with a good, a well-designed roundabout, we can at least make the pedestrian crossing safer, integrating that with the bus stops, you know, in the Conoco access and I think we're aware that Conoco did close on a contract for that property, so it appears they'll be there in the foreseeable future. Good sort of is, it's a sidebar note, but the Portuguese bus stop design that Hunt reference, but we're looking at it, Alcric Road, it's a possibility, I don't know, because we haven't gotten that far in design work with it, but there may be some way to create something like that on this side and still keep raft of somewhat lower in this intersection where it's flatter and give them the running start. And then you kind of get the both best of both worlds. Mr. Wilkinson. A couple of things Dave, why not work out some sort of program with Rafteday? Have the ski company employees are going to the base village transfer at the town park station stop? Because it would seem to me that it would be easier for them to get off the raft bus, get on the floor or whatever bus is servicing that that does go into the. Into base village, I think it would be real easy to motivate the employees to say, you know, this is the transfer to the base village or transfer to the tree house. You know, because I know what they're trying to do is they want to stand the bus till they get all the way there. But if you can intercept some of those workers and say, hey, you know, this is a much better way for you to get to the, and have a coordinated route timing thing. Well, it's a little, well, there's a number of issues there. First of all, the transfer is about as detrimental as extending a headway on a bus route to your ridership. So, they're not to be taken lightly. The second thing about it is that the Ralph fours, when we discontinued Ralph seven bus service into Mountain View, one carrot to help with that is that we began running the Ralph four buses up the outside road and then down the inside road to base village to boost some service levels for Mountain View Creekside Passengers, which has been pretty well received. And that was also predicated on the study, if you remember, a Warner study for the Ferris Free Service, 70% of the clientele of Raft and we assumed ours as well was bound for the mall as their primary destination as opposed to base village. So in some ways the transfer doesn't work because you're getting on a bus that's going to go to the mall anyway and as opposed to being a direct. That's a nice thing to keep on. Your buses are still going to the mall first. Right. Okay. Second question. If you're going to do this and you're trying to get the passengers off of here to go over here to there, I think you're going to need a walk. Another walkway right here. So somehow so they don't shortcut because I mean this obviously was going to happen regardless of if you put this in here. Is that a deal killer? No. No, we can easily add a peb crossing here. Do you think he would use it? Well, I got to figure out some way to motor, you know, you're wasting your money if you just put this in there. I don't think people are going to acknowledge that unless you somehow get them motivated to do the crossing on the road way here. What would motivate them? First time I hit somebody. Well, no, a designated pedestrian route. I mean, that's about the only way you can get to it. Well, I'm not done. John, what you're asking for is to cross all three intersections. Get off the bus. Go west, south, and east. If you're advice for a ban. You're for a ban. Right. Well, what the percentage is a vice-right right now? Is there required by the PUD to not have a employee parking? Well, what are we trying to do here? I mean, we're trying to make it safe for pedestrians to get across to where they're working or where they're trying to go to. And I continue that just putting this in is not going to do it. All you're doing is creating the safe, clearly acknowledging the safest point across it. I don't think we're solving it until we actually put that round about in. Right. Why do it when people are not going to acknowledge it? Well, it's all right. It's just about painted a little better And put the signs on the spelling. Okay. Yeah. The sides are in addition in this location. But that's not a big expense. No. No. Well, I mean, to be clear, all of these things were the David's talking about our things that we could absorb within the road fund. Right. And any of those specifics come to you in spring of each year. It's less than five grand, all told, probably. You want to go to far away? This one we're just adding a couple of signs and refreshing the paint. Then if we're going to do that, you've created somewhat of a safe area right here with the paint, created like a safety island. I don't know if there's anything more you could do to have a halfway across the road safety place for the pedestrians. Because there's a fair amount of left-hand turn activity happening from here, I was hesitant to throw something tangent to this intersection because you'd probably want to pull it back from the intersection up here That's not out of the realm of possibility to put a Pedestrian median island in there or at least paint it more distinctly so the the pedestrians will know if I make it to here I'm gonna be safe sort of If I make it to here, I'm going to be safe sort of. But what kind of people would be sliding through that area? I'd say, yeah. Yeah, they can. Man, again, I just don't know what we're doing here unless we're really trying to make it safe and for feeling good about doing this kind of stuff. I want to be able to get to the pedestrian safely across that intersection. And again, John, to answer your question, I think one, we're reinforcing the need for that permanent solution and two, if that isn't in the near future. And I hope it is here, you know, simply designating, you know, here is clearly the safest spot to cross. Will we still have sheet flowing of people? Absolutely. We're not solving anything until the roundabout goes in. That's the shortabout goes in. That's the short version, Jason. Check the board. Back in. Moving on. It's far away. There we go. Okay, to orient you, this is Brush Creek Road. This is downhill traffic. this is far away road, this is the entrance to the Woodbridge. No, I'm backwards. I'm upside down now. Okay, this is going downhill, this is going uphill on brush brick road, that's Woodbridge, this is far away. We have these two bus stops. If you're driven by here, you know that these two are heavily used bus stops by both the retail or private multifamily complex here, employee housing on this side of the road and other multifamily complexes. The idea here is add again, cautionary signs, noting that there's heavy pedestrian traffic, installing a ped crossing bars. But in addition, this would be a median, ped median, refuge island that we would sit in here. This is kind of a hard surface, if you will, and raised. So you can't drive over it. It's literally there for a pedestrian to get here and wait until the next lane of travel is clear. This is where we may want some engineering consultation to say what's the best solution to put here. We think this would be better than what's there now or just throwing in a crosswalk Your solution Come cross where's my little do you know not there? I'll just note the pisses a sidewalk that we're proposing to add Okay, I have you got some problems here. Okay, I have problems all over the market. Yeah, you said I didn't. I forget how to use these things. Right here, that little place right there. This is a turn lane for people going up far away. And right next to this turn lane, there's probably only about 12 inches of gravel dirt type stuff so you'd have to widen this little area for someone to get my refuge. Yeah to feel safe and then if you will they want to go over here and catch this bus stop. So this is an area you might want to leave with, but and people when they go to turn right, unfortunately I'd love to say they all slow down, but they don't. Dave, did you think about just moving that whole concept to the other side of the problem is this left hand turn pocket? Yep, that is a problem. Why? Why? Well, the car and the person cannot buy the same space and we don't have enough lane width here to put that. The reason this exists is because there's a left hand turn pocket up here for the entrance to Woodbridge and this turn pocket here and this is sort of no man's land. I think that could work if you look at that. We got to figure out a good extreme connection. What's that? I think it would work. I think it would work if you look at that one area where we can take a look at this area. I'm sure. Show hand shovels this in the winter time. How does that get managed? Because I've heard of people coming down and the right side there. the pile is no one can't see out. And the median there, do we hand shovel that with our crews in the morning or the winter? Probably, that would, we have a mixed bad going on here, the contract with us, no removal company to hit the bus stops first thing in the morning. Then we go back later after the second run of plows and all that, and we go back and our crews maintain these areas. The hard part that I see there on the far away is a lot of parents park there at the timbers. Right. And the kids have to go down that sidewalk which is pretty darn steep and it's usually not plowed. So I think we ought to give that some priority in the future. Those kids. Yeah, we were trying to, my assumption was that just people were getting here about that time. It is fun, no. Because I know. The only part that isn't is when you do the Nordic Trail and it has to, those two little ski marks have to go across but otherwise it's plowed every day. Oh, okay. Before the bus comes. Yes, ma'am. Oh, Jeff service does it? Oh, he's not tablin. When I've been tested every day. I tested every day. And it's- There's a test tomorrow, no, from our constituents. Are we ready to go to the next one? Well, no, I got- John, what? Uh, question. Because I think this is an important intersection to do this ad. So this is the connection that comes down from the trail That goes up to the center, right and what what is the status of that trail? Is that a Distipedestrian walkway or As deep as it gets. Yeah, as I've noticed that the residents up there in Woodbridge are using this as a driveway and parking their cars up there. That I have no idea. Yeah. I've been noticing that lately. I think it's worth looking at all. That might be another thing. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. But you know, we're talking about this intersection. We're talking about people utilizing the bus stops here and, you know know for co-mixing. We can take a look of what that is but that's not in my scope of work. Because that's private property. I think that property there's usually some posts with a chain across. Yeah. They use it for loading and unloading or things in the summer. Yeah. And we did. I did try to mention and we'll reiterate that we're adding it, extending this cement sidewalk and least carrying it to this intersection so that we get them out of the main Broadway. Anything else with this slide? Questions? Okay, I would just say when you land on the down on this side of that intersection where Mark he was talking about the narrow that coming around that corner you're going to be walking in the roadway as well. So we're cross rock bars in this location are appropriate. You have to make that turn work carry well. Okay. Let's see. And this is our crew crew. Here's brush creek road. Here are the two bus stops in this location. Basically you have the internal connector going up into seasons 4 here. You have a lot of activity coming out of Vanishing Ranch, the chapel of Firehouse. This may be a little downhill of where we might ultimately want to put this, but basically it's the same thing, add the cautionary signs and then establish a designated cross area with cross bars. And again, I think the answer here is still the same. Around that. Around that was some elevated medians that are doing a couple of things truly makes this safer. This make a lot of sense to invest in anything other than a couple of signs. I think we'd want to take a look at this experiment that Hunt was suggesting. That's right, that's a good idea. John Wilkerson? Yeah, one of my concerns at this intersection is the walkway along here. The hand walkway? Yeah, I mean, that's just dirt and... It's awful. Yeah, and there's a lot of people that use this access Anderson ranch the fire station the chapel area and also to connect to this bus stop. Yeah It's just nasty. Yeah, I you know, I'm s idea of a mini roundabout That will be anticipated right in the mini. Okay. So again, David is it fair to say these are the four areas where you know if the issue was where we concerned and where can we both do something that would be meaningful these are the four areas two of them are really covered with a proposed roundabout. Exactly. And the other two. Unless there's any others that we're not aware of, that you're aware. All to lot six. That's a free throw. That was a $14 million fixed. Yeah, I want to have senior. Fixed to that when it was in the West Mall plans. Okay, any other questions for David? No, I'm listening a lot of stuff to think about. Well, thank you, Council. You're not done yet? Oh. Okay. That's okay. Go there if you need only. Do you want that up up, David? You can throw it up there, sure. If there are no more comments, questions on the PED issue, move on to the route one discussion. Just as a reminder for this, the strategic plan, you had talked about Dave taking maybe a step back with his staff looking at routes, what works, what doesn't work, if we weren't constrained and route one and it came up. Certainly as an issue early on in this process. Yes, we've been grappling with what to do without one for a number of years now. The most recent thing we did when we got a little bit of money back for replacing some of the cuts that we made, we created what was called Ralph S14 or er 14 and that was basically a route that tried to back up route one for a little bit in the morning and the afternoon and then it would go over and it would try and move and help with the Route 4 service as the ski classes and various things started coming in later on in the day as it built up to the noon ski hour. So this proposal basically is trying to say we're trying to fix something that's broken at this point. And what we've shown you're giving you here quickly is these are time point studies. You go, you start at the mall at five minutes after the hour, you drive to base village, it takes you two minutes, you drive to the center, it took another two minutes. It took you about three minutes to get the snowmast mountain, took you about another three minutes to get the seasons four, took you two more minutes to get this upper center base village at two more minutes and you're back at the mall at 21. So this timeline using the posted speed limits or reasonable driving speeds takes you about 16 minutes to do. If you get aggressive and you push your speed on snow melt through the complex of snowmass mountain seasons for and then back through the center and Laura snowmass to 20 miles an hour which feels pretty exaggerated when you're looking at that going on you can shave this down to 14 minutes. Now the person that made this time study all they did was stop note the time keep driving and they did was stop, note the time, keep driving, and they did it in the off season. So there's no real significant traffic volume at intersections. So this is as good as it gets. I'm talking to loading skis and unloading. Not to mention unloading skis. I'm catching up with the bus driver. Yeah. We have designated that there are almost like 16 potential stops on this section of a route. Do you have a map of this route? Not really certain which where it goes. Just describe where it goes, David. I have a map but I don't have it digitally with me Basically it starts at the mall goes down to base village down lower snow melt Dole round it's on the website you can well if the winter map is there you can See it there should be the overall map. It's the orange route one. If you see the village map that's been our route map for forever. I guess yeah, I was just in the getting around town area and I don't see a map in that group. We might have pulled that because it's that's a winter service thing and it gets kind of confusing. But it is the map that most people have used. It does go up into the lower center, pick up people at the growth coming from the grocery store, goes to Snowmass Mountain by going down Brush Creek Road, turning up Woodbridge, upper Woodbridge Road, then it backtracks back to seasons four, then it comes out of seasons four, goes back to the upper center on its way up to the moh. To carry people that are trying to get through the grocery store, picking up groceries, store people moving. To the upper village, goes through base village and then hits the mall. What S4 team was trying to do is in the morning, we have now two buses on this route. And so one bus starts. Do you want me to say S14, what is that mean? That's just a split shift. It's mentioned in the memo. But it's just a shift that a driver comes in. It's going to serve both route one and route four to try and help those things out and sort them out. And basically what he does for route one is, the Route D1 Route 1 driver is sitting at Snowmass Mountain. He'll leave at the Posted Departure Time. S14 goes down to S-Seasons 4, and he tries to leave down there at its Posted Departure Time, saving everybody on Snowmass up Mountain and Upper Woodbridge from doing the grand tour of seasons for in lower Woodbridge and saving the time for that driver to get up to the mall. So that's how we kept this, in the old days, we had a dedicated shift called S1 that literally backed this up for like three hours in the morning and three hours in the afternoon doing this in the morning. And that's how we kept those going to work, going skiing. That's how we kept those time points online. We cut that split shift. So route one literally tries to drive the whole thing as fast as it can. Basically is what we did to ourselves. In the afternoon to be clear, basically what we did is rather than you can't separate people to go, you're going to snowmass mountain, you're going to seasons for our you upper or lower woodbridge, we just separated the two as evenly as we could. That kind of gave you service every 10 minutes, which is better than every 20 and they just ran the loop as quickly as they could and back each other up. We were trying to hit the mall departure time on time. If we were to say we can't make this 20 minute loop anymore, the proposal is to take that S14 shift, dedicated all throughout one, then add about six and a half hours to it to get a 12 hour service window, 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., trying to capture the line share of our customers. They would go to half hour loops, but they would be offset. So every 15 minutes, you'd have a departure from Snow S Mountain or the mall going servicing this route. After 7 o'clock, it would just go back there service every half hour, not totally bad because 3 and 8 are going by this location as well. If you're willing to walk, you have some alternatives. So a half hour isn't the end of the world. If you've got a little bit of an ash. With this guy only a ski season or? This is only a ski season solution. And not in a nutshell, because we're still some of the time from route four, that's why we add a little bit of time back to route four So that we cover that for the peak, you know park and ride movement and again from historical standpoint Because of the new variable in this Dave is base villages now is stopped Well, I think it's I think it's stress over time time and taking some of that backup out of the schedule. Yeah. Stress over time. More stops and more locations. Base villages a little bit more than what old Laude used to be. As far as a time crunch. It's the traffic volume that hasn't declined with the recession necessarily. It's a number of things that are just going on and making this route not work. Did you add this into the budget for tomorrow? Is that what we're- This is not in the budget for tomorrow. Again, where routes are expended from is the general fund. This is a reoccurring cost. I mean, what wouldn't suggest that you just do this is one time and I think it would be successful, but you wouldn't want to then plan to pull it out. So it's something for you to think about tomorrow. If you injected it in, you will see we have a positive fund balance with the general fund, but we don't have a lot of room for a lot of other things. What you'll see tomorrow is we'll have fuel, we'll have utilities, and then something we've heard from our employees is please keep our medical program the same. So we have adequate dollars, we hope to cover increases in medical. You don't have a lot left. You potentially would have another 50 to 100,000 on a year-to-year basis, but you're diminishing the opportunity to talk about salary increases in the future. So you could potentially put this in, but we want you to do that in the context of the bigger picture so you understand trade-offs. If you do do that, it's your judgment in terms of whether 25 minutes, 30 minutes is adequate, or 15 minutes is adequate. There is significant ridership still on this, who is one ofhip still on this, who is one of your original routes, correct, Dave? Yeah, this route goes back to Stumas Resort Days. It's carried about 90,000 people over the last four years as an average. It's 400 and some people a day. It's the third busiest route we got. It's probably one of our more efficient routes. I think we should look at it in the context of priorities tomorrow. I would agree. It's also an alternative to the Skittles lift too, isn't it? Because it's making that connection from the Mall to Base Village, yeah. Oh, yeah. Good point. So maybe we can fund it out of the natural districts. Yeah. Yeah. I just gave fragged into all the big ones. Yeah. I have a little minus. Okay. I think anything else. Thank you, Council, for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for. Thank you for all your work on this day. Okay. Moving on. Now we've got item, I'll tell you what, let's take a 10 minute break. Sure. I want to try some of your wonderful dessert. Okay. No, you go for the salad. I'm going to have to adjust and we have all five members present for this vote. So being as close as it was at the last discussion. Good point. Do you want to move to continue? Yeah, it's not, I don't think there's anything really pressing on this issue today, is there? Johnny, no, we've posted it and I don't believe that there's so. Anyone trying to fire behind our butts to get this done tonight. No, I don't think anybody's proposing that a common consumption area come into being in the next two weeks until your next meeting. Okay. Okay. On motion to continue. Yes, let's do that. Second. There's a motion by Mr. Wilkinson to continue, item number seven. Second. There's a motion by Mr. Wilkinson to continue item number seven. Two. To the next meeting. Regularly scheduled meeting, not tomorrow. October 8th. October 8th. Who's seconded? Marquis seconded to that. Thank you. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Hi. Those opposed? Now, let's take a second break. Now you can go. Now you're nearly done. Yeah. We want to move that in. I would. Hold on. At the last meeting with the last moment we talked about moving the meeting and I said no problem with school for it. Then last weekend I was going through my meetings. I had to deal with it. I've got a fire department meeting where we're talking about our budget tomorrow. And that always starts to date and I can't get out of that one or move that one. So I would propose that we start this meeting at nine tomorrow and I will get out of that one and be done and get up here at 905 If I don't get up before them so I would I would like us to start at nine But I know Marke had a problem the class time where she needs to be out of here by no later than five till two for a Another board meeting so if that's okay, I think it's with the three of us through here, how does Marky and how John, how do you feel about starting at 9 instead of 8? I'm fine with it, but if you're not here, we should just start getting into it. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I will be here. I will, I will, I've've already called down the fire department left them a message that I need to change the agenda because we have it later on the agenda but I'm moving to the front of the meeting to be able to get out of that. That okay yeah we just keep doing it. Yes I will call my care of years in the staff nine o'clock was when we start Okay, so a lunch is served we're gonna work. Yes. We're working through lunch Okay, and you will have lunch okay? We're just planning on a mix of sandwiches. Yep That's fine. I'm sorry. And left over salad Yeah, bring bring no promises on dessert. That's right. It might be monks that dessert. Marvarty told me that was mine. Good. Next item kind of relates to tomorrow. Another break. Can I have some more desserts? Go ahead, Russ. You know, we're continuing. We have an addition position that we're going to be proposing tomorrow. So we're also looking for areas to find efficiency. One of the things we've observed is Rhonda very diligently spends still significant time doing summary minutes. You read them, you've got them in this packet. The reality with our minutes is nobody uses them. If we need to know what you do, we use Granicus, the law, again, jump in, John. What we're required to have is action minutes, which summarizes the actions you take, motion, who did what, are there conditions? So that would still need to be taken. And we could probably do that within the meetings. So again, you see in this from Rhonda about one day for every meeting and you know that includes review and getting it to the point. So it's just an observation is you know we can pick up some efficiency by doing that and so we just wanted to bounce that off of you again. Mr. Wilkinson. Well I'm not necessarily in favor of that. I know I can feel the spears coming my way from Ronda right now but I think it's important to have written record of our proceedings. Not everyone has access to the Internet. Not everyone has access to watching the video or want to take the time to go through each issue that comes in front of us. I know time can assume we may be there's a way to shorten it up a bit, but I think there's a lot of things that go into the minutes that you know 20 years from now people want to go back and look at it rather than trying to find the granicus even if it does exist. I'm probably a little different than John. I think that the granicus is what the future is going to be using people going to be using It's so easy just to go into the Granicus look at the agenda skip right to that point of the meeting buzz right through it and you hear exactly what people said instead of the translation that Ronda or whomever may have to do to get it on to paper So I'm I'm more inclined to allow the action minutes Ronda or whomever may have to do to get it on to paper. So I'm more inclined to allow the action minutes. And I think we'll have more discussion tomorrow. Yeah, we can talk more about it tomorrow. You know, let me ask you this. The probing question is how long is Gratica's maintained? Is there what's a backup system on Gratica's 20 years from now? It has a backup system on Grandicas 20 years from now? It has a backup. On the internet. Yeah, it's all visual. It's preserved. It's digital. So a digital record can be backed up. We backup everything we do. And now we're going to be backing up a secure remote location. So the building burns down. Our digital records are much safer than our paper. Guess what? And I'm fine with taking it off the plate of Rondo these detailed minutes. Again, my null five-year-old opportunity for John Wilkinson to make his point again because I think it is. Also, I just included a quarterly business report from the marketing group sales and special events board. This is the written document. I don't have any presentation on it. They will be in front of the council, most likely in December with a verbal, both are written in a oral presentation. I just acknowledge they've finished some very significant retreats in strategic planning sessions and what you'll see tomorrow immediately and we can talk more about it is they're really looking at redoubling and putting more resources in the summer and you'll see that in the budget. Mark, do you have a question? Yeah, did I read something or did I not read it? Something about restructuring of the department? You do see some restructuring. It's not a net increase in people. For example, our special events function, both the individual is changing their location of where they reside. So no longer make sense, they couldn't be a full time employee. But it concur, kind of concurrently, we were having a discussion about having that position or a contract position actively out in the broader world, looking for events that could come to us. An example of that would be the Ragnar Relay, a couple thousand dollars, but could we actively be out in the marketplace so to speak, looking for events like that to come to us. So it's retasking, it's looking at a position with that that would put more resources towards a social media and working more in that arena, which is where marketing is going right now. So yeah, you will hear about some things tomorrow and kind of a broader view of group sales along with that. But some really good thinking, again, the mix of the different mix of people you've got on the marketing board challenging some old paradigms and Hopefully creating some new ideas and some new thinking John. Yeah, I just want to pass on kudos to the special events for the Ragnar relay Yeah, I was up on the rim trail at the high point watching these people come up and they were just Extatic with the views up there and this one girl came up to and she says can you take my picture with us in the background? I mean she was in the middle of a race and I heard from so many people what a great place you guys have here and you know the more we can pursue those kind of events because it wasn't a high-end athlete kind of event it was it seemed to be really social and bright and a lot of people otherwise. You saw some special activities some celebration with that at the end and we were at the end and we just rebooked that for next year and it's going to get significantly bigger. Yeah I mean it was crazy cool. Yeah. That's really neat. Also just in the same lines you know thanks to the rotary and the wine fest you guys put on during the balloon fest. I think they really added to the communities activities that day. And you know, we appreciate groups like you putting those things on because it really helps make some massive better place for all of us. Thank you. That's one for example. We're looking at we being the town looking at adding another little twist to that to hopefully create some more room nights. We have a national Lamborghini club that is looking at coming here next year at that same time to enjoy the wine but also to just book more rooms. Well maybe if you have the event later in the evening to where people would have to get a room, they couldn't leave someone else. You know. They chip slowly after the case. Still at five o'clock. Yeah. But if they drive a Lamborghini's it can leave really fast. Yeah, I don't know if our Ford's going to keep up with it. Yeah. This may have had one other final FYI. I just wanted to inform you we have a building permit to create a usable drop off and then connection through Building 7. And again this was something that was specifically contemplated in the interim Building 7 PUD amendment. It was even framed in there that the town after a certain time period would have the right to do this. So we've received an application from related with the consent of the current property owner. To do this, John's reviewed it with Steve Ferris and concluded it really simply needs a building permit. So this is something where you could see that gravel driveway turn into a paved driveway with some parking, a penetration to the building. So a functional door and then a corridor that would take you into the transportation facility. And so this can get done in the amount of time to allow the good asphalt to be put down, you know, without closing down the asphalt. That's really up to the applicant. No, that's a standard hunt. Well, hold an applicant's feet to the fire on if it's in any sort of public right away. But I think that's their goal is to at least do that asphalt component before we get too deep into October. Fantastic. I think that will help the winner activities and reduce the tree house impacts. And it'll be great. Who will be able to use that? Again, the way I understand it, that would be for, I'm, I need to drop off my kids. I'm a hotel shuttle van. And I need to drop off a group of people. So instead of the tree house, that would be the designated point at which you would do that. Very good. Very cool. Thank you to those related folks for working on that, because I know that's been some I've been worried about for a couple of years. That's all I had. Very good. Any comments about the managed report? Moving on, agenda for next town council meeting. Mayor, I just want to note that the GID says 2011, I'll be sure to change that to 12. Okay. Thank you. It's a very, very full meeting. We could, we're trying to trim it up a little bit, but it is extremely full. And we've even added something to it tonight. Yes, we did. And hopefully it will be a 45 minute long discussion. Mr. Dresser. And item 14, the executive session, it says specifically discuss three items and there's only one listed. Okay. Personality matters. Given the length of the session and the fact that I'll be out the week before and not being able to participate in advance I Don't know that that executive session has to be done that night if your agenda is such that it the length is overwhelmed Thank you We'll look at that So again, the only other on that item item item number six, the county is looking for final input on their airport master plan. This has been something that staff has participated in. Generally positive about improving amenities at the airport for our guests. So we presume you might want to, and I think they're looking for support from the town. So they've requested some time. Yeah, I keep getting some emails I haven't gotten to the tour. Have you guys been to the tour? Oh, yeah. Very good tour. Oh, yes. It's definitely fun going down the runway in a suburban. Good. Okay. Let me on then. Approval of meeting minutes for August 20, 2012. Marky, second. Second, I met Mr. Wilkinson. Why I wasn't here, sorry. Oh, then I'll move that. And second by Mr. Wilkinson. All those in favour? Aye. Any opposed? Council comments, committee reports, calendars. Marky. I have nothing but I overheard that Ronda is taking photos or having photos done at home. I think it's not been confirmed. Next meeting? I have to do it next month because I have to do it before Mr. Wilkinson and you are off. Great. So it has to be well before you. Right. So maybe before the next meeting, you're just before it. We'll do the picture. Like I said, I'll reconfirm it, but that's either gonna be a So the The one We do from above that's right. I'm having a hard time getting the photographer at this time Yeah, Billy I'll bring my tripod in Billy's dead high in stuff You should be the first council would be in front of your new piece of art out front. Yeah you should. We make never mind. How are you going to take it Billy? Very carefully. Put it on time. I need to know for sure before. I'll do it. I'll do it. Will I get the high quality that I have back there now Billy. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, with that. Yes, man. Okay. Okay, then I have no We had a rafting meeting but Nothing really is important to me now with that one. No Okay is important to me that one. No. Okay. Do you need to think if there was anything? No, the status quo with trail use for the valley. Well, the trash thing in carbon dL, that's pretty interesting. Yeah. It doesn't really affect us here. No. Not yet. Mr. Wilkins, anything from you from Council of the Municipal Reports? Is there a motion for adjournment? Assembly. Marky, second by myself. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. It does opposed. Thank you very much. We will convene tomorrow at nine and Bill, are you okay calling your two calls? I'm gonna call them right this moment. There's a location right now with our staff. Yep, all of you can call them.