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I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the you to you you you you you Good afternoon to all. I'm very, very glad that so many of you are here this evening. I know some of you are here for public comments. Some are here for interviews during that process for the various councils and boards of our town. But most importantly, it's always important that we hear and listen to all of you who come with a certain issue or an agenda item that you would like to see in a future agenda tonight. I'll just quickly tell you how the agenda will unfold for our listening audience. We will first go through interviews and the interviews will be for the planning commission and marketing group sales and special events. So we have planning commission and then marketing. Then we're going to move into public comment. And as you know, this is an opportunity for the public to make some comments to us on council. It's an opportunity for us to listen to you. And for then the Council decide if this is an issue that we need to put on a future agenda. We will then move into a consent agenda that will include lots of resolutions and that will go very, very quickly. But it will include appointment to various boards and committees and commissions and the appointment of our judge who is here this evening, Lawson Willes, as an example. We do have just exact number of people who apply for board, so we will not be interviewing, but I will be recognizing those individuals for all of their time they spent in their application. We will then go through some draft agendas for January 20th, the second to February in the 17th. We will then move in to review the calendars. And then we're going to move in to policy legislative public hearing. And this is the very first hearing on our potentially new owners. We already have done a temporary transfer of a lease for Capploneck and I see Gina and Danny in the back. Welcome, we'll be talking to them much later. And then last but not least, we'll be moving into a very, very important issue for many of the nonprofits in our community. And that is the approval of the grants from our town. That's about $75,000 worth of money that you and we, the taxpayers, allocate to help nonprofits throughout our valley continue to provide the services. They do each and every day to members of our community. And then we, council, have some work to do, appointment of the various boards and committees that we need to staff as representatives of the town of Snowmass Village. Last but not least, we will be doing the vote then for a planning commission and the marketing person. And as you know, there are more people who have applied for those positions and we have seats available. But at the very end, we'll take the vote for those two. So without further ado, I am going to go ahead and ask Rhonda for roll call. Here. Jacobson. Here. Circus. Here. Maxson. Here. Shine. Here. I'll let you get settled. Sorry. It's fine. I know you're busy. Yeah, it's a crazy time. I'm going to go ahead and ask Rhonda I'll let you get settled. Sorry. It's fine. I know you're busy. It's a crazy time of year for me. Yeah, it's a crazy time of year. Yes. You're very, very busy. I know. Nice pictures on AVSC last week. Good job. Good job. Good job. And I would like to publicly welcome our newest member this evening to counsel. I was not here a couple weeks ago when she took her oath, Alyssa. Shea. Welcome. Glad you are here. We're going to move right into interviews and I'll ask Clint if he wants to open the agenda for this evening in terms of the interviews for the Planning Commission and then we'll do the marketing and group sales. So this is Madam Mayor. This is just a quick discussion or interview tonight. There are two different boards and commissions that require interviews. There's more applicants than there are positions available, which is obviously a great problem to have. There's four people applying for planning commission. Jim Keeho, John Flynn, Stefan Stey, and Jamie Norton, and then two people applying for the one open position on the marketing group sales and special events board, the at-large seat, and that's John Borthwick and, again, Stefan Stey. The way this is set up is for you all to do interviews early on in the agenda this evening, and then there's actually resolutions that have blanks in them that you'll need to be filling in later on in the decision making part of the meeting. So without further ado, we're going to go right into the interviews and I'm going to ask which is going to go in order. Is that okay? Hey, Jim? Come on up And welcome you want us the podium would be great Hey, Jim, come on up and welcome. You want us, the podium would be great. Jim, you want to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about Jim and other advisory boards that you have served on and some of the projects you've done as an architect? Yes. My name is Jim Keeho. I have lived in Snowmass 10 years. I live just below the mall at the Willows. Currently, I'm playing at Charles' kind of architects. I was the design lead for the town hall. I have renovated when I was with Z Group, I was a partner and a design principal, renovated the Crestwood, kind of meeting project that was a 12-man-dollar project and a number of others. Woodbridge, Willows, and at one point back maybe five or six years, maybe a little more, I was involved in earlier plans for the redevelopment of the timber mill building and worked in conjunction with the related group up there that had the big plan for the mall. And then the property just below that before it was sold to related the Mount Shalai. So that was a redevelopment plan I worked on. Currently working on the creek side, Creekside is the town is investing bonds to re-clad and upgrade and do energy upgrades to all the housing in town. I live here with two children, ten and eight and one dog and love the mountain, love the village and use it a ton. If I don't take my car and ask them on the weekends, that's a good thing. Okay, questions for Jim? I just wondered and not I know it happens a lot that there are often professionals in a small community on planning or zoning commissions. Do you feel that that'll be a conflict of interest for you as Conif is doing work in town? No, I believe that there'd be a conflict of interest with regards to projects that would be in review from my firm. So I think that takes care of that. On the other side of the coin is a participant, is a resident, and also is a design professional, having actually gone through the PUD process a number of times, my very well-being asset. Thank you. Where's the end of the line? Jim, how do you see connecting your design experience to How do you see connecting your design experience to the planning commission's function of land use review? Well, as a design professional, I go through the land use review in various jurisdictions. I'm very familiar with the process here, what needs to be laid out in a submission, how the submission ties back to the comp plan, which is a very, which everything should grow out of very important element of any development project, not just heights and distances and architectural aspects, but really the core of the village, the core of the community and for instance tying the three nodes together and so on and so forth. Did I answer your question? Yeah I think so. Okay. I'm going to take a pass and go over to Bill. Looking at the time. Jim thanks for putting your name in. You're also on the arts and Advisory Board, is that right? Yes, I forgot to mention that. Yes, I am. How do you think that experience will benefit you on the Planning Commission? Just being within the processes with the town relating to the comp plan as the art walk is part of the comp plan. Those efforts, my experience with the community in those efforts and with the council and with the process, just the process. process and negotiating something that is subjective into the public realm from either a private N&D or an artist. And understanding maybe ahead of time, community response, pulse, and just having that knowledge. And you feel like, what do you think your greatest trait would be towards benefiting this board, your architectural experience? I think the way I look at design within a community, as a professional, the perspective I would bring, that really when you do a design project you don't design in a vacuum and having just the broader picture and being able to relate from the broader scope down into one aspect of the comp plan or one aspect of the code and how those tie together and benefit the community. Did I answer? and how those tie together and benefit the community. Did I answer? Melissa? Good, my questions were asked. I do have one for you and it's one that was discussed years ago when I chaired the Planning Commission and it gets into consideration of art projects. As we all know, when the town went through some very tough economic times, we no longer budgeted for art. In other communities, there's a consideration for developers to allow for a small percentage of our project to go towards a public art. What's your sense of that as an ocean or consideration going forward into the future? I think in a general way that benefits the community. And when a private developer comes in, chair doing road improvements and sidewalk improvements and other amenity improvements is very important. But also I think as arts is a very important part of life itself. And it enhances our community. I, and I know a lot of communities that do that and we're worked in those. I think it's a good thing. Okay. Any other questions for Jim? Okay, thank you very much much Jim. Thank you all. John, please come on up. And we'll a same type of an approach. John, you want to introduce yourself in a little bit about who John is? My name is John. My name is John Flynn. My name is John Flynn. With respect to my education, I'm an engineer by training, have an undergraduate and graduate degree. With respect to my professional career, I spent the first five years after education with a large corporation. And then in 1973 was asked to return to the city of Wilmington, Delaware to run the city. So from 1972, through 1976, I was COO of the city of Wilmington, Delaware. Where, by the way, we were the first municipality to introduce and adopt zero-based budgeting. We had many many challenges as any large eastern city did and still does. But after four years I felt it was time to move on to different pastors and went into consulting and for the next 25 years except for two years as the president of a large environmental firm. I consulted to the public sector, to the chemical industry and to the pharmaceutical industry. That's a little bit about my professional background. My wife and I bought our first unit here in Snowmass in 1989 and in 2003 I retired and basically moved here. So I have a wife. We live in the country club townhomes. I have a son and three grandsons who live in the valley. I'm not sure. With respect to potential conflicts I am currently president of the country club townhome homeowners association. So if that's important, you ought to know that. And that's, that's a little bit about John Flynn. And by the way, this would be my, even though I'm active, obviously in the homeowners association, this would be my first involvement with the town. Official involvement with the town, if so. Okay. Thank you, John. I'm going to start down here with Alyssa. Hi, John. On your resume, it said that you're part time resident. It said that you're here eight to nine months. Eight to nine months? That's correct. I'm here eight to nine months a year. Okay. So in those three to four months of the year that you're not here. Yes. How would that work in relation to the planning commission and being present at the meetings? Well, obviously if I'm not here, I'm not going to be present at the meetings. My wife and I usually leave in the off seasons, the rainy season in the spring and the rainy season in the fall to travel and also return to visit friends in back in Delaware that we established. So how do you propose staying connected to the commission in the time that you're gone? Good to either do it by phone. I don't know does the commission have Skype facilities? I don't know that. So I would have to do it, have to do it by phone. It also says that you're not registered to vote in snowmass. I'm just curious as to why. I'll have a he up. So my real part time involvement is back in Delaware. And I have been appointed by the governor of Delaware to chair the cash quote unquote a official resident of Delaware even though I'm living here most most of the time and to elicit comments we do allow telephone meetings for that for that body. Understood? Thanks. Okay. Well that's quite an undertaking. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I managed my for state of Delaware. Oh okay. That's wonderful. About a billion and a half. God bless you. I want to go back in terms of talking just a little bit about your experience as a child manager and how do you see that experience assisting in benefiting the Planning Commission? Well, anytime you are involved with a town or city, you are always, there are always conflicts between what people want to do. And in the end, I had to work many times around the conflicts with my planning director at the City of Wilmington between various people or organizations or even city organizations such as the fire department who would want to put a building where it really wasn't appropriate to have a fire department. That was a significant, as you can well imagine, have significant influence, clacking. So that experience involved with the various conflicts or the conflicts or the priorities, I guess, is a better word. It has to help in this kind of environment. Bob? Hey, John. This question may be very similar to what Marky just asked you. Okay. If you think it's the same, I apologize, but what type of land use issues did you have in Wilmington, or were there in Wilmington recognizes is an old eastern city. Like most of the cities like Wilmington, the conflict between development and basically the abandonment of people on the evening when they go home became a, well, is and still is a major issue for most large Eastern and maybe even most large cities everywhere. So the largest, probably the largest issue that we had was how to bring life after six o'clock back to center city. And one of the things that we did and wrestled with was the improvement of some old buildings, an old opera house, for example, that had fallen into disuse and the closing of Market Street, which was the main marketing street in Wilmington to try to bring life and people and restaurants back to center city. So that was that's probably the largest one that we had Bob. And I've already mentioned the conflict of how do you deal with the fire department wanting a new location in the middle of a residential area. Thanks, John. Okay. Chris? I just missed what you said before, and it was my not paying attention. Did you say it was the first town to go for a net zero? Or what was that comment? I was scrolling through it and this way said. We all know that Jimmy Carter became one of his platforms, was that he brought zero-based budgeting to the state of Georgia. And in looking at what the approach that Mr. Carter had used, we looked at it for Wilmington in terms of a budgeting approach. And zero-based budgeting really means instead of taking last year's budget and adding a little bit for inflation or whatever to this year's budget, you go back and you start at zero or something close to zero and ask people to justify Build up from the base rather than to just add on to what existed last year. So that was it. We were the first city to do that in the country. Thank you. Okay. Other questions? Melissa? Bill? All right. Thank you. Thank you very much, John. Steve. Come on up. Hi. So, do you think I'm welcome? You want to tell us a little bit about Steve's stay? Now, my name is Steve Stay. My wife is Sandy. She convinced me to go skiing about 40 some years ago, and I've been doing it since. We came here to Snowmass in the early 70s. And at that time, I was in the management business. I managed a lot of condominiums and homes and snowmats. We were the largest development company around. And I was a member of an organization called Snowmass Resort Association, which was the entity before you all, who ran the village. And I was involved in that. So I understand the trials and tribulations that the people on the board and the people working to make snowmasses better go through every day. I'm very interested in getting involved with the town of Snowmass on behalf of the resort and behalf of many second homeowners that I deal with and have dealt with. I think many of us were at one time second homeowners or guests that came here. After while falling in love with Snowmass, they couldn't help but eventually live here. And the wonderful thing about it is many of these people did it while they were young and they contributed, they were able to work in the village, they were able to start an occupation and they were able to contribute in many ways. Some of the people who came came as a retirement, an and unbelievable wonderful place to retire and they're right it is. But I think that one thing about that group as many of those people had time on their hands and a lot of talented experience behind them. And so they put it to good use by being on different boards. Whether it be the town council or whether it be the planning board or the events boards and things like that. My interest is really on the planning board. My background is my education. I was a mechanical engineer. I practiced that for about seven or eight years until I met my wife. My wife took me skiing and I never went back to engineering. We became true ski bumps and we spent a lot of years doing things in the ski industry. But we came here and we made it our life and I became a real estate broker in Snowmass, which I've been all these years. But in this process, I've learned a lot about what works and what doesn't work. I also have an opinion about things that could improve the village in the future. One of them being trying to find a way to connect the village. Connect, I mean, right now we have three areas. We have the center, right here, we have the mall, we have base village, and we do not have a core. We do not have a downtown core. But I think we can get around that without having to tear it all down and build a core. I think we can find ways that are either like San Francisco. I lived in San Francisco for a year, and they had a cable car system, which you all may have ridden before. It's one of the most amazing attractions for that city to this day. And if we, with all of our intelligence and all of our experience of all the people here, were to get together and try and find a way to be able to connect the village and make it more of a town, I think it'd be better. We're also a resort. We need the tourists. We need to rent our properties. We need to get the people who run those properties involved here as well. All the people who are in the management business used to run the organization SRA. They were very strong about conference business. And they created more conference business than in one year than we probably now are creating in five years. Conference business is a staggering return, fantastic return if you can get it. But you gotta go find it. And you gotta have people who can talk conference. And that's what they could do. We need to get those people from top of the village all the way down to the Tamarack and over to the Crestwood, we need to get them involved in our marketing department. We need it in our planning department. We need them involved. And that's kind of where I am. But I'm interested in both boards. I'm old enough where I think that, and I'm mature enough now to be able to be on a board. Thank you. Thanks. Well, I'm Sandy. There's some questions. Chris, I'm going to start down with you. I don't have a question at the moment. I've got the speed. Here you speak a couple of times. So I think I know you'll find it. Steve, so a lot of what you just spoke about has to do with marketing. So this is a planning and zoning commission place. I understand. So give me a little bit about how Steve's stay can relate to planning and zoning. Okay. I think planning and zoning, having been in the engineering business early in my years, and having now built six houses in Snomass, and having been involved in most of the complex here that were developed by back in the years of Chafon and Light real estate, them and all the others. I've been involved in almost every one of those projects. When I've not been involved in is the two of them. Vice Roy and the base village, and which I think are great projects. My background is engineering, but management is more my business. Are there projects in this in town that if you had been on the planning commission, you would not have approved or not have thought that they were appropriate projects? I think that they are all of them, I believe, or appropriate projects? I think that they're all of them I believe were appropriate projects. I think they're location and where we located them was not. I believe that for example we had initially just the mall, the snowman's mall. That's where all the businesses were basically located. We then expanded to base village, and we expanded to other projects, but we became disconnected. But I do think that we have the ability to be able to find ways to connect them. But I think there's so many talented people that are out there doing that work, and involved in it, we need to call them in for their expertise. Okay, thank you. Well, I bought and sold some residences through Steve. I hope I will. And truly enjoy working with Steve and his lovely wife, Sandy, just a question for you. When we talk about connectivity and looking at the skittles and you being in the business that you are in and the notion that that was going to provide the connectivity between the two nodes. Could you give us some feedback from your thoughts on the effectiveness and the quality and the service of does that meet connectivity issue? I think the concept and the idea of the Skittle is fantastic. I mean, again, it's similar to the cable car system in San Francisco, which was an amazing success. I just don't think it goes far enough and got sophisticated enough to be able to serve as the whole village. In my opinion is, the ideal skittle would be starting from base village, maybe even the center, or at least we have branch there, but at least base village, maybe even the center or at least we have branch there, but at least base village going up all along the edge of the village all the way to the top of the village. And if somebody was riding that skiddle and it was 12 o'clock at night and the thing ran all the time and they were staying at the interlude they would just push a button one to go as close to the interlude or would open. They have 30 seconds or 15 seconds or whatever to get off the bloody thing or they're gonna take a long ride and they would go to the top of the village and go back. And the reason the idea behind that is, it's good for business, but it's also good for parking. One of the big problems we have is parking. We have all the parking lots along the edge of the village, but if people are going to go out at night, for example, and I've talked to many, many clients in the past about this, if people are going to go out at night and go to dinner and they're going to get in their car, they're going to go to Aspen. They're not going to the mall. They're not going to base village. They're going to go to Aspen. And so what we're doing is we're in essence driving our residential guest residents, people, we're driving them to go to Aspen. And I love Aspen, but I don't want them to go. OK, thank you. Bill? Yeah, I agree with you, Steve. We should have a better system. I like to know what it is, but we'll keep working on that. I guess one of the questions might be posed is, most real estate people might be accused of not seeing a project that they didn't like. How would you respond to that? That's true. But we know that there's somebody else who will like it. Being the salesperson, it's not our job really to evaluate if a standpoint of whether somebody should buy it or not. It's our business to be able to get back to the developer and give them our input about what we would have done or hopefully we would do if we saw the plans before it was built. Our job is to really make people happy when they go to a project, they find out they love it. We may think it's terrible, but our job is to keep our bloody mouth shut. Okay. Listen. Looking at the current makeup of the commission and the different people that are on it, what do you think that you could bring to the table that doesn't already exist? Actually, I don't know what exists. I do know what exists in my background, but I don't know what exists in most of the others. having lived here for 40 years, plus, and having been involved in the management and the marketing of SNOMAS for a long time. The management part of it was by far the most difficult and the most required the most kind of concentration and effort to make it work. The marketing part for years worked really well. I think today it slipped mainly because we're not doing conference business. It's my major concern that we've lost this conference business. I know it's competitive, but I do think that those are things that I can add to this community because I've done them. Any other questions for Steve? Okay, thank you. Thank you. Next is Jamie Norton. Come on up Jamie. Good to see you again Jamie. And I'm really, really glad that you have applied for the Planning Commission as well. And thank you also for your applicant for the council's seat. No. Undeterred to participate. Yeah. A lot of people that apply for that. And there's a lot of people for the various boards. So thank you so very much. You want to tell us briefly about yourself. And then I'll turn the first question over to Chris. Since I've already been here and laid out who I am, I'll try to just make it short. My name's Jamie Nolton. I was born and raised in different areas of my life in Aspen and Snowmass. I'm a lawyer, a training, an ex-ski coach, part-time ski instructor. Take care of my grandson, step grandson, and granddaughters when I come around. I've been, since I've been an Aspen for the past 20, 25 years and in Snowmass related to the past 17 years, for a raid into public, I'm not a real mess related to past 17 years. I've for-a-rated into public arena by being part of commissions. And that was outlined in my old resume. I don't know if Lisa got to look at it. So I spent a lot of time in the 90s on commissions in the Aspen, the Aspen helping on the affordable housing portion of the Aspen area community plan. I was board member and president of the Aspen, the affordable Aspen Pippton County, affordable housing committee. I was a member and president of the Aspen Financial Advisory Board. That was a member and director and president of Second Home Monor's Association Corporation or nonprofit called the Aspen Valley Improvement Association and tried to help local officials make educated guesses on decisions on planning. That was an introduction into the old time aspect. I'm a practice in basalt, Colorado. I live here in snowmass. As an attorney, I've been involved in land use planning. As I have a like I'm repeating myself. I first came back in 1990 I think it was to work for John McBride I worked for five years as a project manager for the North 40 into the Affordable Housing Project across from the airport, 72 ROD restricted units. We sold lots, we encouraged people to develop their own, designed their own houses. We thought that would be more of a buy-in to the community. It turned out to be a great success for families and children. So we're very proud of that. I was, as an attorney, I've worked for the town of Bessault and the town of Carbondale, representing them in more delicate areas, where there's a conflict or problems with staff on reviewing residential and commercial projects. So I have a pretty good experience in land use planning the Red Moser of the Coves more than once. So with that I'll let you ask me questions. Only because I'm sticking to a theme. Do you feel like you'd have any conflict of interest as you are related to someone who has a business that exists on the ski mountain? Absolutely. 100%. I have a conflict. Thank you for bringing that up. Yeah. Yeah. And my wife, wife Gwen would probably, you know, have her say on these issues. And she's very interested in the future of snowmass. And I think she backs me in my effort to help that. Thank you. Yeah. Jimmie, how do you see your land use experience working or helping the current planning commission? I think it would fit really well. I know most of everybody on the planning commission, I know the developer, there's an architect, property manager, and Mr. Rikowski, I don't know what he does, but he, yes. And I think that my law background would help, I think my experience in land use planning and land use review would be helpful. I think the fact that I've been here so long, and I know a little bit of the history. And I know from working with clients here, my dad was good friends with Fritz Benedict. And I knew how Bill Jantz and Fritz designed snowmass with the idea of ski and ski out. And the idea of a center just decided to bypass that. So they missed that opportunity to create a village center. And that was what they did back then. I think they tried to with the mall and the steeple and the mall that is supposed to identify some sort of center. So I know a little bit of the history of how snowmass was developed and where it's going. I think because I was born here and really care about the place, I have, and I've seen it change. I've seen Aspen change. I think I can bring that experience to the Planning Commission. I think I have a broader perspective. I look at a big picture. I try to look at the big picture. I don't want to get caught necessarily in. The minutia, the details are very important, especially with related. If they're coming in, I think the details are going to be really, really important, I think. I would dig into the details. But I also would lose the broader picture of where we are, where we've been, and where we're going. Thank you. I want to take a pass, Bill. I don't have any questions for you, Jimmy. Thanks. Lisa? Thanks. I don't know many questions for you, Jamie. Thanks. Listen. Thanks. I feel like I should ask a question. Let's talk about time commitment. It seems like with your law practice and part-time skin structuring, how would this fit into your time? I was asked this question before and I was, I will do whatever it takes to do it because that's the commitment I would make and part time instructing I do it over Christmas and President's weekend. My practice is, you know, I'm not 80 hours a week and I work hard, but I'll do whatever it takes. Jamie just one question for me and that gets into a land-used code and planning and you're very, very active and ask them North 40 and what have you. As you look at our land use code and our various regulations accordingly in our town, you compare them to Aspen. What are some of those mistakes that have been made not here, but you could do both communities if you choose to, that you hope that we in Snowmass don't repeat of some of the trials and tribulations that now confront Aspen. That's, I think each code is sort of endemic to its home community. I think Snowmass has to develop its own code. Very pleased you have Julie Ann Woods, because I know she worked with Aspen, and she's very familiar with the codes, and how to adapt it. Without, I'm not going to have any. As I scale, those are the big ones that come to your mind. Mass-eye scale. I mean those are the big ones that come to your mind. My mind. Yes. Mass-eye scale. Density. That's all very important. I remember Jim Crown saying that the reason Highlands didn't work because it wasn't big enough. I think it had more to do with location. That depends. I see it differently. I don't see it just mass or density or design. I see it is that the town of Snowmass has a limited supply of water and sewer and roads and housing and that any development has to sort of fit into that. Otherwise, if we just build and not take into consideration what we have as a community to support it. Then we miss the boat. It's like we're on an island and we have a certain supply, limited supply. And that is we're offering developers the opportunity to take advantage of what we have if they increase that then they have to pay for that. And it's also what we have is our bargaining with the developer on what they can build and what they can't. What subsidies the town gives them think it's, it changes. You'll get the town of Aspen. They've had to increase heights or the dealing with that they need to increase the heights if they want the development to occur because the land prices, et cetera. I'm not sure, I think we got there when related, but back in before 2008, they just kept buying more and they added floors. And I thought that was unfortunate, that it got too big. So specifically, I can't tell you what the density is or what the mix between commercial and residential that I think that has to be done in conjunction with evaluating what the town of Snowmass has to support it. Okay, thank you. Any other question for Jamie? Okay, thank you very, very much, Jamie. And thank you to everyone who has applied for the Planning Commission. We'll be appointing one individual of that amazing slate. Can you all here sitting here this evening in the audience and those listening? Pretty darn tough job on behalf of all of us on council. So amazing talent sitting there. We're going to move now to marketing group sales and special events at large seats. We're going to move now to marketing group sales and special events at large seats. We have two applicants. John, you're up. John Borthwick. Come on up, John. Me again. Yeah. Welcome. John Borthwick, I'm currently chair of the marketing special events and group sales board. My three-year term is up and so I think most of you know me, most of you know what I've been doing for a couple of years on this board and what this board has been doing and I guess the reason I'm here is to help continue that work. I think we've had a pretty good run in the last three years. It's been a very difficult three years. I can tell you the last time I was standing here in this position, we were debating a business plan, whether or not we needed one, what form it should take, and what we were going to do with it. After about a year, we finally achieved that goal. The goal, of course, was not the business plan. The goal was really changing the way Snowmass tourism does business. And I think we've made great improvements in that regard. I would say the, we were going for about a decade with basically the tourism marketing operation. And this is a bit of a generalization, but I'll use it anyway. It's viewed its role as an advertising and public relations type of position. A role in the community and that's the way we are going to solve the resort economy challenge that we all had. And it was certainly necessary. It's certainly part of the job, but it's not sufficient. And essentially what we were going for when we built the business plan, as you know, I probably wrote most of it. I'm not taking credit for it, but I certainly was very vocal advocate for getting this on a different footing. And I think we achieve that. I think where we are from an operational standpoint, and the goals that we achieved operationally are that we have a much higher level and much more sophisticated focus on what resort product is, what the role of events is, and we have a vehicle now in this business plan to communicate what this department is actually doing, what our strategies are, what our approach is. It's a public document which is good and bad because you don't want all of our competition necessarily reading our public documents. But we live, that's the environment we live in. And this board was changed three years ago when I was here. And the change was definitely for the better. We have a lot of really good people on this board. We have some deep experience on this board. And I would just like to see it keep going. Any questions? Melissa, I'm going to start down there with you. Hi, John. Hey, Melissa. I, my question is the following. So if you're reappointed, what projects do you see as most important going forward? What are you working now on now that you want to see through? Those types of things. We have a couple of ongoing challenges. I would say that the biggest kind of long-term challenges, what I would call our everyday resort product, especially in the summer, we're building out infrastructure, we're building out mountain biking. We are probably at least five years behind our competition in those areas in some ways we could be a decade behind and that is probably the most difficult in the biggest long term kind of ongoing business that we need to tend to. My personal because I have a tech background my personal interest is in visitor information and services. We have a lot of work to do there. Our guest services function is really needs to be reinvented. I've had these conversations with Rose, who has, it's been her capable hands now. I couldn't be happier to have her looking after those matters and also taking the business plan. And we just have a lot of work to do there, whether it's from the entryway. I think of, I would prefer to think of this town in three nodes, but the three nodes that I have defined in my mind in terms of the way from a resort economy that we would look at, it would be the center, would be one. The entryway would be a second one, and the village core, if you will, would be the third one, and the village core has an upper the mall and lower piece to it. And I would, I think it works better that way. If you look at, if you look at our group business and just the profile of people that we, we are saddled, not saddled, but basically we have to sell what we have in terms of our mixture of hotel product, condo product, et cetera. We have a certain amount of confidence based that we have to sell, and we have to work within those guidelines. And the staff does a great job with what we've got, but we are frankly behind. And so the sooner we can get the infrastructure up as we feed the better, it's just gonna make our ability to, to basically from a value proposition, it's going to be a much stronger place to be. But then answer your question. Yeah, thank you. Bill. There's a lot of talk about shoulder season and how do we increase business and shoulder season. What's your perspective? My perspective is that it's exceedingly difficult to do. I mean, anybody that's here in shoulder season is, it knows how little activity there is, it's a kind of a, it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem with having services and things like restaurants open and things like that. I think our approach to shoulder season is basically to get, say, summer on the best footing we can get it. And we've done that. The events last year were really good. Fred in particular does a great job in terms of putting that program together. But I think the way we attack shoulder season is basically by just trying to inch out and expand the summer either on the front end or the back end and looking for opportunities to sell the product that we have. It's, it's, it's, it's, it gets difficult once you get in October, it gets difficult. You the transportation changes are a number of things that change in this village just because of the economics. And so I would say to attack shoulder season, it's basically taking our primary activities, which typically in the past have ended at Labor Day, moving those out toward the end of September, moving them into October and looking for opportunities to do that. The front end is a little bit more difficult because the weather is a little more problematic in May. But it's not to say we couldn't. We're always thinking about it, I guess, as my point. But it's really more of one of how to expand our main seasons more than just attacking children as an objective. I do it so. Is that help? Yep, you bet. I don't have any questions, John. Chris? I'll just say that for everybody and for counseling some of the new members, John's very good at taking phone calls. It's gotten more than enough for me and responded and been willing to communicate and have coffee and discuss difficult ideas. And I know it's not a question to comment. I'm not giving you my full endorsement. I'm just saying it's been great. And I think you carry a lot of institutional knowledge at this point in that period of what we've created and worked together. And I wanted to just take a moment to thank you for all that work. My pleasure. Thank you. I don't have any questions for you, John. You mentioned institutional knowledge. I would like to make one point because mainly response to a point that Steve brought up. The idea that, and I run into people from time to time who lament the good old days. And the comment that Steve made, it deserves a response. The conference business they were doing in one year, I don't know exactly what year that was, was more than what we'd currently do in five years. That's, first of all, a generalization, a gross generalization. I think it's hyperbole also think it's wrong, but it's in terms of being factual. But it's the idea that the good old days are instructive here is a myth in my mind. We have some very deep experience on this board. Some of those who were here, like Bob Purve, Robert Sinko, they were here in the SRA days. And so anyone saying that there was some sort of oversight that we have not considered in terms of the way the business ran in a different economic time, a different market, a different economy, a different competitive position in particular is, I think, oversimplifying the issue. And it's not that instructive, frankly. I think we've already considered everything that we were doing in the past by way of the experience that we currently have on the board. Thank you. Anything else? Any other board. Thank you. Anything else? Any other questions? Thank you. Okay, thanks. Steve, you want to come back up? I think I hit it. Yeah, I think you already hit it. Okay. Well, I would like to thank everyone who has applied for the two commissions, one being the planning marketing and group sales, and the other being the planning commission. We're going to turn it now, unless there's any other questions or comments from... I'll make one just one other comment that I just, as I was listening to people, and as I often do, and I was just glad you brought it up, John, and we have not talked about it before, but this idea of looking at the nodes a little differently is really big for me. As I was listening tonight, and I said whether it's four nodes or whether you call it three nodes with an A and B upper lower, but this idea of really looking at the geographical map of what Snowass Village actually is, and looking at what our entry and exit points are actually are, and then looking at where we actually, as a town and municipality, spend their money and have our resources. We have a lot of investment down at that entry way already, new investment in terms of property, and an incredible amount of potential in terms of how the town represents itself. And while I think it's reasonable that the marketing board focuses to some degree on where the businesses are, because that's where the revenue's coming from. I think it's council. It makes a lot of sense for us to look at the town as a whole. Thank you. We're now going to move into public comment. And I will see if there's anyone who would like to speak. I see little Jeff back there. Come on up, little Jeff. I shouldn't call him little Jeff, but come on up, Jeff. My name's Jeff Had. I'm part owner of the Connacle Service Station next door, better known as little Jeff. We'd like to ask council to rethink the thought of putting around about it. It wouldn't brush creek out here. We think there's a lot of different things that could be done. That would be better, better beneficiary to the community than this roundabout. There's a lot of flaws in different things that we don't feel that are safe about the roundabout. Number one, the steepness of brush creek road, where the pitches are going to get changed. Buses have a hard enough time going up up for brush creek as it is right now. Let alone to climb in a steeper grade there. We're scared that it will impact our business majorly. I've got a 20-year-old son that gives graduated Lincoln Technical College that would love to come home and go to work at service station, but right now we're leaving him out in the real world for a year. And till we know exactly what's going to be happening with the service station, that if it's later on viable to for him to come home and go to work there, then that's so be it. He's looking forward to that. It is a family operated and owned business. Jeff and I are there all the time. The doors are unlocked. You'll find one of us, and most times, both of us there. We're very concerned about the design of this. We think that there's better things that can be done. So we'd like council to take that into thought. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Any other comments from the public? Come on up. Introduce yourself and yeah. I'm back to the bro. Good to see you. I'm on brush creek roads in 77. In driving up brush-creek roads since 75, somewhat familiar with that. I'm friends of Erkoneco, men, friends of the town. To me, the best engineer is the one that can design the best bridge. It's the one that decides what you need a bridge or not. So I'm coming with that theory and I think we've come to the point on this round about that we need to hire a transportation expert, have them come in and analyze a new what our requirements are and not take what's been handed and pushed around and tried to make it into a certain spot. If it won't work, it won't work. Maybe need a traffic line. Who knows? We get an expert to tell us. So that our tax money is spent. And whether it's for ladies' money, it's needed here and over there just because they're committed to spend the money. We shouldn't be committed to make them spend it if it's unwise. Don't do it. So. My own retirement is always we just are experts in the field to analyze this situation. And and recommend to the town town what needs to be done. Thank you. Thank you very much, backster. And do I have another comment? I think I come on up here. My name is Paul Fee, I'm one of your residents of Snowmass Village. I'm here to talk about the roundabout slash station issue. So a little bit of deja vu here and the notion of institutional knowledge and historical perspective was raised as one of the criteria that you focus in selecting Miss Yanke as the next council representative. And I heard that same phrase, institutional knowledge mentioned just recently here by a previous speaker. That institutional knowledge and historical perspective, I think, is extraordinarily apropos here. Almost 10 years ago, we were gathered in a similar meeting in the Old Town Council. And it was at that particular time, it was probably the best attended town council meeting that I'd been at. And the people were sitting on the floor. The bottom line in that meeting, the village spoke, the citizens spoke with one voice. The gas station was under siege back then. The citizens in the town spoke with one voice, and they prevailed. And the gas station has since prospered because it's been operated as family owned business. I would remind everyone here and I think those are suggesting that you need to explore the history behind this because it's critically important. The roundabout that's proposed now was proposed and developed on the basis that the gas station wasn't going to be there. It was going to be at the rodeo grounds. So now you're trying to sandwich a roundabout into an area which you can't deal with. And that's the reason that the owners are against it. And we've been eight years without a roundabout. And as far as I know, there hasn't been any serious inconvenience in the village. All of the confusion that we have at the ski season is not where the roundabout is. It's up Snow Melt Drive, Office at the Treehouse, and all that. That's where the confusion is. There's nothing magic about this roundabout. It lives on. It's got a life of its own. And most of the people in the grand department spec then aren't even here anymore. And the issue is still wide open. There's a lot of money involved in this roundabout. And if you want to say it's a safety issue, I would urge you to talk to Brian Olson. I ask him if I could come down and view the accident records that might be connected with the roundabout over the past five years. He says, don't bother. There haven't been any. Safety is not an issue. But community benefit, I think, is. And I would suggest that you take the time to explore with related, first of all, explore whether the roundabout is really, really needed. And I think that the big Jeff will have something to say about that a little bit later. But the money that's being used, proposed being used for this roundabout, as a community benefit, I think could be spent in a far more appropriate way. For the long as I've been here, they've been talking about a performing arts center. And I just read Mel's column that he's come up with that idea as well. I'm sure he's been aware that it's been around for a long time too. That kind of money, I'm not suggesting where it should be or how it should be done. I'm simply suggesting it's an example of the kind of community benefit that the citizen tree would really appreciate. As you go about this investigation, remember that of the three entities in this town, commercial and service, it's one of the three most important. The other two being the post office and the market. And so you want to be very careful in what you do to perhaps jeopardize the future of that station and no one's in a better position to tell you they've got a problem than the people who own it right now. They're not out of town owners problem than the people who own it right now. They're not out of town owners. They're people who have devoted their life to that business. So I think you need to respect that heritage and really investigate this as a new group, a new, and take a hard look at it. The world's not crying for that roundabout tomorrow, and I know for a fact that related is not committed to spending their contribution to the roundabout. They would put it to wherever you check this with Dwayne. I'm sure they put it wherever it makes the most sense to the town. So that's all I've got to say on this, but this is an important issue. And I, with the new folks on the council, and I would encourage you if you don't have that institutional knowledge and historical perspective, take a little bit of time to get it. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Paul. Would you, any other comments? I would just want to make a comment myself, Jeff. All right, good Jeff. Oh, Gary, you want to come first? Is that okay? He's Jeff. Good, Jeff. Oh, Gary, you want to come first? Is that OK? He's older. He's older. Come on up, Gary. This is Gary Rosal. I incorporated the town of Snowmass Village. I got Jack Shus to run for our first mayor. And he was a ski instructor out at Highlands at the time. And when I bought my, I used to live in Aspen when I left Aspen and came out to Snowmass Village, the conico was the only business in this town. There was nothing else that was the only business. And they have two tow trucks that are very, very critical. I used to have some kind of a scout. The scout. And I had a 3,000 pound winch on the front of it. And I used to have a lot of boats. So I had an anchor in the car. So in case I was stuck, I'd throw the anchor out and haul myself out of trouble. And I spent most of my time rescuing people with that dumb car. I had no time to myself. I finally had to get rid of the car. And as I said, that was this was the only business in town. And there's, you have no idea how many people have been rescued by those tow trucks. People come in here with rental cars, two wheel drives, stuff like that. They don't know how to, in the winter time, they don't know how to drive in this kind of weather. And you can't imagine how many people, those tow trucks went out and saved. My wife was one of them that was saved by those tow trucks who went off the road. And it's very critical that we don't lose something that is very critical to the health of everybody who comes here or visitors, people who live here, everything else. It's just enormous. And I don't know what else to say to you. I'm getting pretty old anyway. Thank you very much, Gary. There are many, many stories about Gary Downs at the conical. Jeff, you want to come on up? I'm Jeff D. Andigan, part owner of the conical. And what I've done is decided that maybe it'd be a good idea with the thoughts of Paul and different people whatever to do a survey. It's not a petition, it's a survey to see what the people of Snowmass Village feel about the roundabout and the gas station, etc. and the design they've've come up which obviously will not work for us we found out and so I'm gonna give this pamphlet of information as far as the EPA and our lawyer and the distributor of gas to us and so forth and I've asked people that have come in That the people of snowmass village do not feel How they feel about around about whether it's in the best interest for the community and I'm gonna give those to you and one for Clant Okay and one for Clant. Okay, thank you. And I'm going to leave the decision up to you to make the decision on us and whatever you make, Jeff and I are fine with whatever you decide. Thank you very much. And, uh, I'm on up, Mr. Cote. Because you're the attorney, I guess I should call you. Mr. Cote, not what you do. I'm on up. You've slashed Cote. You've been to C. O. L. A. Hansen. I've been to C. O. L. A. since 1992. I've had the pleasure of representing Jeff and Mike and little Jeff for a long time now. I want to speak on their behalf to bring home to the new council that there really are problems with the design that's being developed as far as the gas station, continuing to function as a gas station. With the alignment of the pumps as they are parallel to brush creek, if one of the access points for brush creek is removed, you're gonna have cars coming in and not be able to get out. Now, the staff has proposed, you know, a fix that would require the gas station to give up a big stretch of its parking that it uses and that it needs to be lies on for everything to repair so just people coming in and buying a cup of coffee. So I really do think that this roundabout that we have is a solution in search of a problem. And because we got here 10 years ago when we were projecting all of this increased traffic from base village and what do we do. And as Paul Fee said, this was at a time when it was contemplated that the gas station would move down to the rodeo lot. Now that's no longer happening. There's got a choice has to be made. And it's a policy choice. Do you want a gas station or do you want a roundabout? It's or you're going to have to figure out can I put the roundabout in a different way? Can I move different elements to keep to allow the gas station to continue to function as it has for since before the town was a town. It is the oldest business in town and it is something that everybody relies on here and it's more than just a commercial business. I always think of it as, my wife owns the salon up in the mall. And this is like the male equivalent of this lot. Right? It's an important gathering place for people. And you walk in there at any time, there's just guys that have been here forever and they're just sitting around having a cup of coffee talking about the issues. And it would just be a shame to destroy it for something that really isn't or doesn't appear to be necessary at this time. And I know that big Jeff has got pictures of the problems that are at the bottom of Stoneout Road that are like, if you need to do something, you need to spend some traffic money, that's where you need to spend some traffic money. Because that thing gets all backed up and people are coming down both ways. And the intersection with currents is just not as crazy. Now, and I don't know, I'm not a traffic engineer, I don't know what's going to happen in the future. But, you know, I'm here to say, please give some consideration to the gas station and do everything you can as the government of the town to keep it alive. Thanks. Thank you. Is there any other public comments? One more. We'll do one more. Two more. Two more. Okay. Can't see all the hands. Go ahead. Can I just pass? I'm going to. one quick thing we forgot. Oh, okay. And then I'm going to call on the other two since they have not spoken. We would like to buy counsel all the commover to the station and at your convenience we do have videos that we can show you, pictures we can show you and show you the layout of the station. I think it would be a viable thing for each of you to look you the layout of the station. I think it would be a viable thing for each of you to look at the design of the roundabout and where the way the servication sets, we've got all that on file over there. Thank you. Thank you, old Joe. Okay. Anybody else? Come on up. I can't see who's over here. It's behind you, isn't it? Hi, I'm Lance Jared Iverson and I'm a Sun and Law Jeff and a half-owner of the lot of the gas station. And you know, Paul and Lance summed it up quite nicely with regards to the importance of the station of itself. My curiosity as part of the land ownership is what is the intention of the roundabout in regards to what could possibly not a gas station if this were to go through. And I haven't heard any comments about what they would do or what they would want to see in the absence of the gas stations, which I think would be obviously a gigantic mistake. But as a landowner, I'm kind of curious where the public benefit weighs on my own personal investment that have just many, many years into the gas station. And has there been any thought beyond just the impacts to the service station in and of itself and I you know like I said I have not heard any discussion about that I would hope that you guys would think about that in the future. As you know this is public non agenda so we won't be making comments but I truly appreciate your thoughts and your comments. I think there's one more out there. Come on down. Okay. Scott Cornblaid have been a problem. My family has been a property owner on Wood Road for 45 years and I've never had a problem with this intersection. I'm very concerned about the related impact on quality of life in this community. And I know that this construction of this would definitely impact all of our quality of life along with all the other planned developments or whatever happens to base village. But I see no benefit to the roundabout. And the safety issue of coming down the steep mountain road into a roundabout is unthinkable to me as well as the money spent to improve the pedestrian pathways around this village or where the money really should be spent. Thank you, and thank you for your service. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. And thank you for your service. Thank you. Thank you. One more. Very quickly, Gary, because we're running really late. Every place else that you go, whether it's the solder anywhere, they all have traffic lights. And traffic lights seem to solve everybody else's problem. Why can't it solve ours? Oh, there's history on that one, too. So this evening, we've really had a lot of comments, public comments, about the roundabout. And I had truly appreciate everyone coming and expressing their viewpoints. As many of you know, we've worked very, very hard. The town has worked very, very hard on the improvements to the design. It's also part of that process called the PUD, as everybody knows. And recognizing that I'm sitting here representing a brand new council this evening, I am not convinced or don't know to the extent of knowledge that my fellow colleagues sitting here this evening have in terms of the history, why the roundabout, etc. And later this evening we're going to be talking about some work sessions and I may be asking my, I will be asking my fellow colleagues if we want to in a work session really understand where we are with around about how the heck did we get here and then spend some time recognizing all the many valuable comments that you all brought forth this evening. And before I close that notion, I look to my colleagues and see if we look at those public or the work sessions, if that would be something you'd be interested in having more information on. Absolutely. Okay. Okay. Well, thank you all very, very much. And we're going to take a five minute break and then we'll go right into the consent agenda. That will coming, coming. Take a quick vote on, but let me tell the groups sitting here, what is on the agenda. First is a public notice for where we will notice meetings and the other public information that will be in town hall. That'll be coming forward for approval as a resolution number two. I'm going to ask him to stand up. Judge Will's just stand up so everybody knows who you are. Did you want to make a few comments? Yeah I'm just going to have you come on up even pulling out a consent agenda. Thank you very much for all your service. Thank you. I really appreciate it. For those of you new, my name is Lawson Whales. I've been your judge since 2008. It's a part-time gig, and we do it here right here in this room. Basically, traffic, parking dogs, dog situations, we'd get some bar fights, relatively low level things. Very, very proud of the work that we do. We found that the respect that we give people, we get back from them. One of the ways that I measure our success is repeat customers, and we just don't get measure our success is repeat customers. And we just don't get a whole lot of repeat customers, which means we must be doing something right. This year I am asking for a two year contract if that I have had a series of one year contracts before an agreement. And that's just to try and simplify and streamline things more than anything. You mean you don't want to come and see us every year? Well, you know, I'm just glad none of these guys are applying for my job back here. You're a great, great group. Thank you. Thank you very much for your comments and all your wonderful service. And then resolution number three is the appointment of various community individuals to various boards. And I'm quickly going to read those because I think people who spend time filling out an application should be acknowledged. It does take time and I'm just going to read them because I and other members of council feel that it's very warranted. On our sub of Summass Arts Advisory Board, there's seven vacancies. We had five applications. All of these people will be reappointed or appointed. Jim Keeho, Katherine Bell, Augustine Goba, Oscar Carlson, and Debbie Johnson Hill. FAB, there were four vacancies, four applications. Harry Andrews, Greg Smith, Sean Gleason, and Gary Hartman, thank you guys. Citizens grant review, board three vacancies, one application, Paula Johnson has been appointed. Liquid licensing authority, two vacancies, one application, Deidre Boino, who served for years and years and years on that board. Part time residence advisory board, we had one vacancy, one application, one appointment as a Greer Fox. Board of appeals and examiners, we had one vacancy, no applications. And last but not least, the EAB Environmental Advisory Board, we had three vacancies, two applications. Nicole Tuhic, is that her? Did I pronounce that correctly? Sorry, there should be three applications here. Three applications here. I'm Nicole Monica Newton, who is with core specialty purpose there in terms of her knowledge. She's a great, great leader. Carol Goedan, so all three of those will be appointed. purpose there in terms of her knowledge. It's a great, great leader. Carol, go down. So all three of those will be appointed. Just a quick question for Rhonda. There's some that have not been appointed. Can they still apply? For yes, they can. Okay, so we do have some vacancies and we would like to see some additional people in our community apply. And then last but not least, we have some calendar items in terms of draft agenda for the 20th, the 2nd, the 17th, review of calendars, and then last but not least approval of meeting minutes for the 17th and 1st. Madam Mayor. You have a motion for approval, do you want to sit down? I have a comment. Okay, go ahead. I would like to add to the no later than the meeting of February 2nd on the agenda, the joint meeting with the Planning Commission and the town council relative to the related PUD application. And the reason that I would like to see that on the agenda, on an agenda at this time is that I sincerely hope that we, both the Planning Commission and the Council and the staff, can continue to work as seriously and make the May 31st deadline for the approval of this PUD. And the only way to do it, in my opinion, is to have these things on the agendas as on a regular basis. And give us a push, I mean, the collective us, a push to get the work done so that we can stay on schedule. Any comments? That's a great impact. You're getting ready for that. I'll just say my only comment, I'm not disagreeing with you. But in listening to the conversation about the parking issues, and the – I think when I listen to that discussion tonight more than even other times, this idea that we have a previous conception of what this development might be, that solutions were made relative to that. They then became implied priorities. I might call them red herrings in a good moment on a certain day. But when I look at it now, we're at a point where I think that, to just briefly touch on it and we'll get back to it with the work sessions, I think that a lot of these issues are starting to make me more and more convinced that the sketch plan process is really a needed one when we don't even understand how a main intersection works relative to the design that we're not even clear about because we haven't seen, you know, like, so I just, I'm throwing it in. I have no objection to seeing it on the schedule, but I wanted to make that comment. We'll talk, we can talk about it. I had one other question with, is the assumption in regards to the postings which used to happen here in Town Hall and down at the market that the market option has been excluded now. And so this is just illegal postings. This is our legal spot. Everything else we do above and beyond the law. Right. So it's not. We're not. That's not given that that stop. We're just saying the minimum line. Okay. And I had other agenda items that will come out of the work session. One will be the ongoing conversations with Krabloonik, and we'll get into that later as we talk about Krabloonik. The other might be the entryway planning. We get a bridge in the item, but yeah. We're viewing calendars. Okay. calendars, yeah. Okay, okay. Anything else? Yeah, John? Yeah. Okay, okay. Anything else? Yeah. John? I just want to clarify that council can't dictate the setting of the joint meeting. Okay, because the staff review is underway. The application was deemed complete just before the holidays. Okay. Staff has 30 days to do their staff review. With the sketch plan process, there's a required meeting between the applicant and staff, whereby all the staff concerns are discussed, but the applicant has the opportunity to then amend. They have a final amendment before it goes to the joint meeting. So upon receipt of the requested information or within 10 days of that staff meeting, is when the joint meeting can then be scheduled. So we understand very well council's concerns, but by the terms of the code, you can't dictate the date that the process starts. Okay, I understand. But there are drafts, Okay, yes. I understand. Other drafts, so we can. I mean, I think it's fair to say we are aiming for February 2nd, but there are nuances that have to happen beforehand before we can say absolutely, but we understand the concern and are aiming for that February 2nd date. Thank you. Okay. Any other comments? Do I have a motion approval for the consent agenda? So moved. Second. Thank you, Chris. All in support. Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Same sign. Listen. Does she? I said aye. Okay. Sorry. Okay. You're cute little boys. Thanks. Okay. We're moving on down to item number six, which is Criblooning. This is page 95 in your council packets. And I'll have Danny and Gina to come up. I think I saw... There he is, that Miler, Dave Miler. Did you want to also participate? Are you participating in this as well? I have the institutional history. Okay. Okay. Okay. This evening, this is not the beginning or the end. It is somewhat phase two of the actions that council took back in December in order that a Dany and Gina could have temporary use of Criblinic and I'm going to have it teed up by either John or by Clint who's going to tee up this conversation. John? Well, as you know, the lease that has been temporarily assigned to Dan and Gina so they can operate the Cribune business this year required the council has the ability to have to, it's required the council approves the S&E which are Danny and Jan. You've done that temporarily to allow them to get started with this season because of the seasonal concerns of this business. But before you wanted to do that, you wanted to understand their business plan going forward, their bonafides, their experience, et cetera. And I think you also want to explore the possibility of lease amendments going forward. They're here to make their first presentation. It contains their vision of how they would like to go. I mean, you've seen the packet. Their vision of how they would like to operate. And I think that they hope that that commences you that they will be a model operation and that some of the problems of the past will not be revisited. So with that, that's the introduction. Sorry, my tongue is a little thick, but. You're getting better, get better. I'll turn it over to Danny and Jean at this point. Well, welcome. I guess the first question just to put you at ease this evening is how did the season go during the holidays? It was amazing. Thank you guys for your time and getting us in there. And we just had a phenomenal season. We had lots of guests and everybody was just happy. Where did we get the coming? Yeah, the phones were ringing out of the hug. Well, that's wonderful to hear and I'm very proud of what our council was able to do in order that you could proceed with your business. This evening, though, we're here to hear more about Danny and Gina. We did receive a pretty thick packet. All the newspaper articles, I had problems reading, but I tried to work my way through the print was very difficult to read but why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are in the direction that you can see Cropune going and there'll be a lot of questions and I do see some people in our audience that will also have some comments. So what we will do we will have Danny and Gina to present there'll be some questions from council I'll take public comments and then we'll move on from there. Okay, sounds perfect. First of all, I fell in love with this community 13 years ago. I grew up in Northern Idaho, grew up in a third generation guiding and logging family, and came out here to do a bunch of skiing and have fun. Like, you know, lots of 20-year-olds do. I happen to see the sled dogs one day when I was skiing on the campground lift. And I used to ski well over 100 days a year. And saw these sled dogs going down and I thought that was just the most amazing thing I've ever seen between the dogs and the guides that were behind them. So I decided that I would take one season and take it off from skiing and learn to be a dog sled mousher. And I fell in love with it. I truly did. I fell in love with the bond that the dogs have with the guides and the moushers and showing people this incredible lifestyle and it just seemed all fall in place, everything that I grew up learning about and what I went to school for and everything just fell into this one category of this is what I'm supposed to do in life. And I was given an opportunity to work with the Criblinic dogs, and I spent a partial season with Criblinic, and went on to train I did a lot of sled dogs for a local Glenwood Springs dog sled musher. And we had a holistic approach to dog sledding that was not a traditional approach. We did chiropractic work and massage work with the dogs and natural foods and natural products that we helped reduce stress. And this was, I was mentored and I worked as an apprentice for four and a half years every day of learning all these different techniques and modern techniques of dog sledding and having the ability to stretch out and try different things and see what works best with the dogs and I was a trainer. So I took each dog individually and I worked with each dog to get it through its peak performance. And my philosophy from day one is that the most performance you can get from a sled dog is to have a happy and healthy sled dog that loves you as much as you love it. And I've carried that on and I met my wife Gina and the dog sledding when I was musher and worked as a trainer and we were married and had three beautiful kids and we've raised our children in the dog sledding world in a lifestyle and it's a tradition of hard work and love and finding a balance of sustainability and nature and we love the idea of raising our children and just sitting here and listening to everything going on here in the last hour with the committee. And it's amazing that somehow we ended up here in snow mass of this beautiful little community. And we're excited to be the next evolution in snow mass and the next business owners that are coming in and being a part of the growing way of snowmass that has been in the history. And it's exciting. I don't really know how I do that. I'm not really a dog's that much. You're at the mic over a little bit. We are requisite. Right. I don't present very often. So I grew up in Nicar. And so I'm kind of from the area and grew up in a, you know, subranching and farming community and dog sledding. I've never thought that I would be involved in dog sledding or done anything like that but it is a lifestyle that we've found that really works with our family and there's a lot of qualities that, you know, a lot of history that we feel adds to our family and that's what we bring to Criblinic and what we bring to the dog sledding is we're family run obviously with the cocks con with the gas station and family is important around here and I think snowmasses starting to become a family destination place and so for for us, that really fits with us and fits with our vision of Criblinic and how we can bring, what dogs letting's brought to us, how we can bring that more into the community and expose other people to it, other families and share our passion that we have for the select dogs. And well, thank you very much for the introduction. Truly appreciate the packet and all the work that you put in to it. I will make some comments that I hope will become some of the dindoms to the contract. And I'm going to come from my perspective initially and I have other comments but I will let my other fellow councilspeople speak Versus taking the marquee approach to some suggestion I'm page 115 our packet gets in to best practices and I will share with you. I applaud the work that you have put forth in terms of the best practices. One thing that is remiss is the dates by which each one of these items might happen in terms of institution best practices. And the second part of that gets into how are you going to monitor what you say you're going to do, which is the notion called accountability. So I see that this is what I call a good draft, but now I want to see the action planned dates of completions and or milestones, whatever you might want to call them and what the monitoring might be. Now before we agree to all of that, let me just suggest something to you and why I am coming from where I've come. That is over the last few years. This town council, previous town council, and some of us who have said on council have been very distraught about the practices which may or may not have occurred that are alleged to have occurred at Crablinic. We also have the world eye looking at us, whether it be interviews for people up in Canada, letters from as far away as Germany, tons of petitions on and on and on and on. And what where I'm going to come from as I made my earlier comments in terms of milestones, dates of completions, monitoring programs, is that we, as a town and you as the owner, we must demonstrate working together that we are doing the best that we possibly can to assure not only the local community, but the entire community of those who come as our guest and who appreciate dogs letting as a potential activity or amenity that we've got the best in class. So it's not that Markey wants to be representing the town as the mayor wants to be tough on you. I think it's it's would be who you to begin to think through how we might put some milestones and dates and monitoring programs in place. And second part of that best practices gets into the notion which I brought up earlier to you. This is nothing out of the blue. Some type of a citizens group yet to be appointed which you would be a part of that would help us with oversight because you're on town property and we must assure the town and the community that we all serve that yes Danny and Gina are living up to what they have put into a draft document. So that's where I will start and I hope you take heed to that and I think you can do a great job but but that's just some comments. And I'm going to pass it on to my fellow colleagues. I think I can. Yeah, Gina. All of the things that are on the list or things that are already being done right now. We'll see how would I know that? Because I wrote it in the very beginning. I know you wrote it. But just because you wrote it doesn't mean I know it's happening, girl. No, these are all of the things that we're currently doing. OK, well, so this is what we need to do. And you've done this before in your business. So we kind of flip this. This is the task. This is a data completion. And this is how we're going to monitor it. OK. I can even help you. OK, other comments? I always just going to say it sounds really great. And I've been feeling a little stressed out intense myself, and I thought if I could come up and be a dog for a day, get the massage, the chiropractic, I'm happy to hear that it's moving forward. I think there's a potential discussion that council could have in regards to the lease, in regards to use the property And I don't know if we're gonna go into that or not or where we want to go with that in terms of What you guys are doing I think it sounds great and really inspiring I would like to see it be all the things that it can be and I guess I echo Marquis Comments in that if that is going to be the use so that's going to be the business that's there I hope that you guys can achieve your goal of being not just the biggest but the best and become something that's really A fixture of the community that that's that we're proud of the local community and the rest of the world can support and be proud of and My only other suggestion, and certainly not directing how you run your business, is to any degree that you can connect that sustainability aspect, or the Discovery Center, the family centered relationship, and how you may expand your season. So you're not so time-dependent so that there I don't know what we can do with dogs to demonstrate massage or something in the summer but you know like just just build it out because it's a beautiful location it's stunning in the summer I can see how the restaurant different aspects but that's for you to figure out those are my comments. Bob do you have any comments? Really, my comments just mirror yours and Chris'es. I do think that you guys got no off to a really great start. It appears to me that you've certainly quieted the noise around, should there be a cabloonic and I think that if you continue to move in that kind of same direction tune things up a little bit as Markey suggesting I think you have a good basis for success. Thank you. Melissa Hill? Yeah, I just like to say that, you know, community has made a commitment to dogs letting. We want to see it happen. I think everyone in town likes to have it as an amenity. We do continue to get emails and notes from people that are just put off by the way, you know, not by how you're running your operation, but I think it's just a lack of education on how dogs let operations run. I went and checked out the operation over in Breckenridge. I think what people don't understand is how you have to run the dogs let operation. You can't have dogs running around, you know, sleeping on pillows and a big barn. I mean, it just doesn't work that way. So, I mean, anything that we can do to help you educate the general public as to, you know, what dog sledding is and the great things that you're doing for those dogs, I think, would be really beneficial. So, I commend you on trying to strive for the very best there and just let us know what we can do to help you out. Thank you. Melissa? My comment was kind of what Bill said just about the education piece of it. I mean, you know, when I read your packet and I'm like, oh, well, that's why they're tethered and, you know, and really understanding that they need their own space. And so it is about, I think not so much maybe for the people that live here that would read the newspaper articles and have an understanding or do research on their own, but more of the guests. I mean, because I think, you know, we got a comment from a guest this week about them being tethered in these inadequate houses and it being really cold and I mean I don't know if there's some sort of display or something that could be created that you know kind of like in a museum where you go when you read and you're like oh this is how it's done and this is the history because I think it's interesting but I also think that it would probably make people understand and realize that, you know, we have incorporated an educational part of training our guides and all of our guides we sit down we have different printouts every week we sit down and we educate our guides So not only they are amazing with the dogs and they learn the things that they need to learn with the dogs, but they're also educating our guests. We have a new trail system this year that is a shorter trail miles wise, but the experience is the same. But we have an opportunity to spend 25 minutes with our guests in this beautiful little valley along the creek. And it's all about educating every single guest that walks through the door. And we have, we serve hot chocolate and cider, but 90% of our guests want to hang out with our dogs and ask questions. And that has been a huge part of the transition is educating people. I mean, adding to that publicly, like you say, for people to learn more. That's great. Okay, I had one more question. Okay, go ahead. My other question just was about the housing for the dogs. I mean, I know it says in your packet that you're looking for more ideal housing and the temperatures. I mean, what are the temperatures in which they come inside and what kind of housing are you exploring? Well, we've looked at the igloo dog houses and they're great, they're rugged. And part of the design, the design that's out there now is that the dogs have a porch, so they have their small house and then they have a porch. And the porch is used in the summer months for shade. Last year we incorporated a misting program where we go through three to four times a day and we miss the dogs and we missed underneath of the of the porches so that they're able to get underneath of there and have a long amounts of shade. So the igloo houses we believe will fit and will still be able to use the porches. So it's taken some time to figure out if I give a good insulated house and the winner, I don't want to take away from the shade in the summertime. And that's what we feel. And each dog is individual based on their needs. If we have any whatsoever, any thought that a dog may be cold, they're in immediately. And we have a nice little facility inside. We have musters that live on site 24 hours a day to monitor all the dogs. So it's on a dog to dog faces. So it's on a temperature. And there's ways that we feed the dogs and snack the dogs and straw in the houses. That's what a lot of people don't understand. That's how they heat. So we heat them from the inside out with their metabolism. And that's how they stay warm. And then that with the straw helps keep them warm. Now their houses are old. And we feel like they need to be replaced. And we're just researching now. And I mean those are traditional style houses, but we feel like we could do better. So now we're just trying to find out what the best way to do it and the best, you know, and try to see all sides of it because those are the traditional houses. So we're trying to find a different guide. So we want to make sure we make the right decision. We'll do that. Okay, thank you. I have several other questions then. We do know that the regulatory body for the dog sledding operations is state of Colorado and they do have standards that have to be achieved in order to pass licensure. Those are minimal standards. Sorry, I'm in the healthcare business, you know. I think they're minimum standards, not the best in class standards. In healthcare, and I would think that would be applicable to dog sledding. Is there another accrediting body or what should I call the Goad Seal of Approval? Star five any of that type of stuff out there in the dog sledding world? To be honest, it's when you go to sleep at night and you make sure that your dog Possible to them. Okay, but there's not another body out there that says oh my gosh This is the destination. It's the best of the best in the entire world. Okay. There's not another body out there that says, oh my gosh, this is the destination. It's the best of the best in the entire world. Okay. There's a potential of business opportunity. And in terms of amendments to the lease, I brought up two issues. One is the appointment or selection, I should call it, of a citizen's advisory group. I will tell you, I will not back off of that. I don't know about that to me. We've got to do a great job, but come on, we've got to prove to the world that we're doing okay. So I'm going to suggest that it would be a condition. The other would be some milestones and timelines and monitoring. I don't have time to come down there and say okay, so you said you did this. Show me. It's like one of the stupid things we have in health care. Our temperatures, our refrigerators can't be over 32 and every 32 degrees and you have to go in and you have to do these temperature control logs and the surveyors coming. You know, to me that's ridiculous but it is what it is. I don't want to make it that onerous but I do think that we have a responsibility to demonstrate accountability and a responsibility to prove to our community that we've got the best and the best. And I know that's gonna cost a little money. And I have some other ideas in terms of nonprofit and other kind of things to hopefully that you might be able to raise some money for the wonderful work. But those are my two issues. I don't know if council had other items in terms of suggested amendments. I just had a question. What do we have in terms of the in regards to the terms at the end of the I guess the 12 year period I think it is approximate. We have a two year period to 2016 and then the option is in place and good question. We have a 10 year period after that and then what happens? The lease ends. Unless they exercise the option to purchase. To purchase. So there is an approvision of a renewal or extension. No, there's not an option to extend. Okay, so you have an option to buy, but not necessarily an option to extend. And I don't really have any amendments. I will say I think it's interesting to consider how your business may evolve, especially, not to sound too ridiculous, but with the regards to climate and these other adaptations and the aspects of sustainability and a sled dog season may get shorter as time goes on and I'm just talking out loud. And so unless we're like I say I could go more we could spend a lot more time on like I say, I could go more, we could spend a lot more time on the lease or use discussion, but I don't know that there's any reason to go there and let, I don't feel that it's the will of the council to really explore that at this time. So, in for the sake of the public, and I'm not giving you guys a hard time writing, but in for the sake of the public and the new members, it's a fairly restrictive potential use, but we as council do, in my understanding, have options if we wanted to explore different options, and I'm just raising them so we feel like we haven't, and especially for newer council members who haven't maybe spend as much time on it, not suggesting anyone hasn't to just note that. It would be a good just to note that, Chris. John, you want to go through what the uses could be if we were not to move forward at the dog setting in terms of the wide and open space. Yeah. Oh, it was kind of a complicated exchange agreement. But where it ends up is that the lot that Dan originally owned and then a piece that the divide owned, they threw in .7 acres to add to it to make the whole parcel down there. All of that allows for the operation, the continued operation to house dogs and chryblinic operations. The .7 can only be used for housing dogs. The other part, and I don't have it up here to give you the exact acreage, but places where the actual business, not the housing of the animals, that can continue as well. In the event that Crablunic were to go away or cease operations, the covenant that is entered into between the town and the divide, the point seven acres can only be used as open space. The other can be the continued opera. The current operation, the single family residence, or open space for the balance of those two lots. And that's a covenant that was entered into at the time of the exchange agreement. So, and I should tell you that specifically precluded under that covenant are other types of commercial uses or a multiple unit residential development. So, those are the specific things that I've included. I started. So, and I'm not suggesting this anyway, I'm just trying to give ourselves time to explore. We could potentially just say no, because we wanted to, if we felt that this piece of property were so valuable that the town wanted to do other things with it. But in my understanding, I'm just trying to have a conversation with my council colleagues. What we're basically saying is that we continue the idea that was established before that this is a good use, and in a way we're foregoing our possibility to sort of collect on that property. We're saying this is a good option and these people should, this type of operation should have an option to then purchase that piece of property in the future at which point the town sort of out of it and there's, I guess, covenants for operation. Yes. And the only thing I would add to that observation is the least is what it is for the next 12 years. And so really the question is should the least switch from Dan to Danny and Gina Phillips right now? Because if for some reason you all said, no, thank you. The lease would still be in place with damage. That's right. And so we could go back to this place where we were before where there was the, I don't know, the criminal case and litigation thing. And we could stick with that if that was our, I'm not suggesting it is. I'm just trying to make sure we're all having a discussion and understand what we've done in council members so that as we go forward and as I guess you know as Bill was saying and work with you and help you that my colleagues and myself are clear in what we have done as we're moving forward. I guess the question to my fellow colleagues sitting on council, do we want to continue or do we want to begin to look at a different purpose? I'm for keeping Criblinic. Yeah, I still am. Yeah, I'm for keeping Criblinic. I think the option to buy is the challenge because our town is land poor, really. So I think that we should really seriously consider if that should be an option in there considering we have very little community land. Okay. What is off? community. Why had some amendment questions, least amendment questions that I wanted to ask. First, I found a little mistake on page 100 in paragraph 11. It said the landlord will be recovered the full value of its investment. I think some words are missing. So that was that. Then the other, I had two questions. One is given everything that's happened in the last year. Has there ever been any discussion about putting penalties under the lease for violations of standards of animal care? Has there been consideration? Is that with the question? Yeah, has there been any discussion about putting in penalties under the lease for violation of the standards that come down from whatever organization? I know in the last conversation, so I'm not sure which mean it was that, but yes, is a short answer. There was some discussion, and this is the time that if you'd like that negotiate in the least, that's the direction we like from the Council. I would. I think that's really important given that everything that's transpired. I mean, it's well and good that they've given us a list of the things that they are doing or will be doing, but I think that if there is this organization, I don't know what it's called, the one that makes the standards. Okay, the one that makes the standards, I think that if there is a violation, there should be a penalty in the lease. I'm not saying I know what that penalty is, but I would like to open that up for discussion. And just a clarification, Alyssa, there's different levels of penalties. There are some which will do harm, if you do harm, those types of issues. And then there's those that go back to the 32 degree thermometer and a refrigerator which to me would not warrant serious penalty. But I think that we could come up with some type of a, as far as I'm concerned, if there is those violations, you're done. Well, we'll still have, when we still have a lot of the same guidelines, we'll still be existing in the lease. In other words, the whole way that we got here to a large degree was waiting to find out whether Pac-Fa and the criminal case were going to result in finding fault or finding crime. And that would be a violation of the lease, isn't that how it was read? Noncompliance with all. That would be noncompliance at least. So I'm just saying we have some of that language in there. And I think that a list and not that I'm in any way disagreeing or disregarding your comment. I'm happy to continue with it. One of the things that we discussed a great length is the problem with a lot of the things is how do you enforce them? How do you who is the enforcing and who? Right, but if they're the citizen group, do they have the ability to levy you fine or whatever? And so I think that some of the stuff that's in the least covers that, but I'm not disagreeing with that. But one of the problems I feel with what is in the lease as it related to this situation in the last year and a half is that it took, it's taken more than a year and a half to resolve. So I don't think that it serves anybody's purpose to leave the lease as it is, which says if there is a criminal act and you're a noncompliance. It takes too long to determine that there's a criminal act. So let's have some other standards, if you will, that are more easily determined. And we can resolve, we, as the ladies, both of us, can resolve these things either by repair or fixing the problem, or doing something else with the lease. But we can do that in a timely fashion, because we certainly haven't done it in a timely fashion the way the lease has been has been written. Which goes back to my goal was to have an advisory group, citizens group, whatever you want to call it, with maybe five or six people that meet on a regular basis. They are kind of the eyes and ears, if you will. with maybe five or six people that meet on a regular basis. They are kind of the eyes and ears, if you will, and represent the town. On additional standards, far and above, what I call the minimum standards of the state. So I've got a best practice document. I'd incorporate the best practices into the amendments in terms of meeting the additional standards and I'm suggesting perhaps the advisory or whatever we call the whip-wop committee right now would work with DADD and Gina on developing what that might look like and come back to town as part of the amendments. But I'm just not going to accept just the state standards because they come out once a year and it's 16 months later and they come back and do a resurvey and those are minimum standards. I really want to see some teeth and the amendments around our expectations called best practices. So that's where I stand on it and I would love to see some arm. I don't know if it has to be a committee of the town or how we might achieve that. But I, yes, you do have veterinarians now. I could see a veterinarian on there. I could see perhaps Ariadama, control officer. I could see a veterinarian on there. I could see perhaps Ariadama, patrol officer. I could see an interested citizen. Also interested in it. You know, you could, other people can come up with some other ideas. I know Dave Miler might have some ideas as well. So that would be my thought in terms of amendments. Are time frame two in trying to come to a decision and. They weren't done by the end of February. In the temporary agreement we have ends in February or. No, I don't believe there was any into it. It's just I think we're just trying to get it buttoned up sort of in those. I just want to. I just want to. Is there any other direction that just want to just like. Is there any other direction that we want to give our council? Dave, did you have any comments? No, I'm hopefully going to be able to help put all of this on paper. You may want to come up to the mall. I will be happy to help put all of this on paper. David Miler for the record and accommodate the town's interests and desires in this case. And, obviously, Danny and Gina's as well. And we still haven't heard from the audience. There may be some other concerns that come up. But our objective here is to come up with a plan that makes everybody comfortable and happy and we can move forward with a positive operation. I don't want to be hard-nosed about it, guys. It's just, yeah, I do. I do want to be. I'm kidding myself. It's just too critical. We went through a lot of very difficult times, the last town council. And I know you did, even driving down 82 with your family in the car. We need to move beyond that. And I hope that you'll be agreeable to let's take the skeleton of what you've prepared and begin to turn that into the amendments to at least document. There seems to be a lot of new and I hope that the past doesn't hold up the new. And I'm going to open for public comments. I do see a few people. Come on up. Come on up Lee. Yeah. Come on up Lee. Yeah, come on up. Well it seems you took a lot of us for you. My name is Lee Vogel and I'm associated with voices for the Criblinic Dogs and it seems that everyone here has taken a lot of the words right off of these pages. So thank you for that. And thank you for the opportunity to address you all tonight. And congratulations to the new members of the council. So I'll make it quick, because you all have spoken a lot about what's on this page. So it's been six and a half years that we've been working on trying to raise the standards of care. And we think this is the time that we can all, the council, voices, crib lunatic ownership, can make sustainable changes that represent the best interests of the dogs and snowmess village. We've read the packets have been it for today's meeting. And we're happy to read that the items we have brought up for years are being addressed as part of a holistic plan for the dogs. And changes implemented in a timely manner which you brought up would certainly be beneficial to the dogs, the business, Criblinic, and the town of Snowmass Village. And the two items I wanted to bring up for discussion were your two items. One in advisory committee representing a spectrum of individuals that can weigh in on best practices and time frames in which these changes and improvements would be complete. For example, when will the number of dogs be reduced? I don't want to be redundant. What is the number of dogs that will be allowed on the property? What is this number based on? Is it based on a financial bottom line? Or how many dogs can be best cared for? And I hope we can make the vague more understandable to different parties involved and visitors as well. And when, for example, will new housing be complete? And please note that voices directly or indirectly would be happy to support in any way, whether it's PR or fundraising and it would be remiss for us to not bring up public perception as uncomfortable as it may be and We're fully aware that traditional dogs letting his dictated standards that are sometimes uncomfortable to the visitors that have expressed discomfort with current housing and time on chains. And we've been told that new pens will be created that will allow for more dogs to be off of chains for greater periods of time. And right now, if I'm not mistaken, dogs are off chains in the off season for approximately one hour per week. And is it possible for several hours per day? And how can we help? We hope to be able to ask these questions directly, which represent years of people's calls and emails to us. And Kloblinik is the largest dot-sad operation in the lower 48 states. And rather than people referring to out-of-state operations as the highest in standards, let's make it snow-mess village. And the questions and conversations might be uncomfortable, as the highest in standards, let's make it snowmess village. And the questions and conversations might be uncomfortable, but it's time we can all do this right. We hope to be a part of it. And from visitors, employees, and the new owners of Criblinic, let's represent the parties that will ensure that snowmess village is the best place for sled dogs. And every single one of us asking questions, coming to solutions can ensure that the standards are rarely if ever questioned. We know that traditional mushing in tandem with a resort town will yield some clashes but let's address them and do it right. Thank you. Thank you Lee. Thank you. Build did you have any comments? Do you have any comments? No, do you have any questions of Lee see Bill back here? Bill did well stated. Thank you Bill Any statements and any comments. Thank you very very much Lee Bill Faber-Shiny thanks for having me First welcome to Council members. I recognize some of you as friends in the past. I'd like to first say thank you for your wise words, Mayor Butler. It's something, seven years I have personally been waiting to hear from this council. I think it's been long overdue, so thank you. I will also thank Danny and Gina for their, they've worked hard, and I think they've done some very good things. So I want to give them an endorsement further the changes they have, they have made. They've done some very, very good things. And I admire their grit and their dirt determination. It's scary taking on a business that has been in such dark shadows for so long. So I know they have determination and I'm hopeful the potential they have. I'd like to talk a little bit about the history and this lead dog industry as a whole, everything has been brought up at peer and I'm not telling you the anything that Danny won't tell you. Some people just don't like this lead dog industry. It's not regulated, you ask the question. It is we have the minimal standard possible, where one of the few states that has any type of regulation, whatsoever, those standards are awful. The under the standards of PACVA, which is the Pedal and Mell Care Facilities Act, you can chain a dog its entire life, never interact with them, just provide the minimum amount of food, and let it die on the chain, basically, to a degree, and its legal. The state standards are awful, and we are one of the few states that have any type of oversight. So it's good we have PACVA, but we have to acknowledge the limitations of PACVA. So I good we have PACVA, but we have to acknowledge the limitations of PACVA. So I agree we have to have better standards. So if we're going to have a select dog business in Snowmass, we have to have a different standard. And this is not in common. Local regardless of the business, local governments all over the United States have implemented ordinances, regulations to look after the welfare of animals. This is nothing new and we've asked this for seven years from this council. So it's nice to see the grid and determination on your side to address this. Not just for Cablunik, but for animals in the community. It shows an interest and the values that this community should be based upon. This is an opportunity now before you to set a solid foundation to build something of value in the community and it will just build value for Criblinic. If people know Criblinic has a high standard that the dogs are the welfare's looked after, it makes snowmats look good, it makes Criblinic look good, it makes good economic sense for everyone. So it's worth spending the time on designing a lease where there are criteria in there that look after that have penalties. That hopefully will never have to be implemented because the owners care so much about the dogs that they will do everything possible for the well-being and welfare of the dogs. All these things make economic sense. They make good PR sense and they look after the welfare of the dogs at the same time. It's a win-win for everyone. This is long overdue. This should have been done seven years ago. And I will go through the history briefly of why this is given a tainted image if snowmast for so long. The model that voices put in front of you seven years ago, the criteria, breeding regulations, spain, neutering, identification of the dogs, time off the change so the dogs could be socialized so they could be adaptable. Euthanasia, so dogs just couldn't be shot whenever you felt like shooting a dog, which is legal under state standard. Dog can't pull a sled, it's three years old, but a bullet in it's head. These are all things that I don't want to go into the negative history, but there has to be some grit and a lease that addresses these things. And there's things that are already being implemented by Dan Engina, which is wonderful. But you have the opportunity now to enforce it in language and a legal document to augment the lease, some of the discussion that's been brought up, I think that's wonderful. And I would think this should all be welcome to the owners that everyone will be on the same page and everyone will be working towards the same thing. It takes effort, it takes passion, it takes love of the animals to do this, but most importantly, it also takes economics. And no one convert, and that's why you need it in the lease. We cannot predict the future. I know Danny and Gina love the dogs and they'll do everything they can for them. But we can't predict the climate change. How that will affect economics, we can't predict family hardship, we can't predict economics of snow mass village. Therefore, we can't predict the economic viability of Criblinic as a business. The best we can do is set standards that looks after the welfare of the dogs, regardless of what happens economically in the future. That's your, and that should really be your responsibility. That shouldn't be something that voices has had to come forth over the years to bring forth. But we have, and we ask again that these things are taken into consideration. I will just reflect briefly on the history, not to say anything negative, but in 2006, the town of Snowmass, I'm sorry, man, it's a bill. I'll be very quick. The town of Snowmass Village signed a lease that there was no ordinance or regulations looked at for the dogs. It was a 20-year lease and we know what happened with it by 2008. For Blinick, I feel the state inspection. They had gone way over the limit on the number of dogs. No one knew about these things. It was voices that discovered all of them after much research. And this takes time and effort. I hope you can appreciate the sacrifice over seven years that has been time studying dogs, times interviewing other operations, times travel to the state to interview with PACVA, hours upon hours upon hours of learning the sled dog industry for the love of the animals. And again, we started a campaign. We tried to work with council. We started an advisory board. We got nowhere with it, but we had good people and I'd be happy to share that with you in another meeting with me a more time. What that advisory board looked like. The owner was unwilling to make any of the changes. And the council was unwilling to put teeth to make force them to make the changes. We established a vet day and paid for it. We put a lot of time and money into improving to the best we could from an outside source to make changes. So I'm delighted to see the change of ownership and what Danny and Gina bring to the table. But we have to continue to raise the standards. So I know I only have a few seconds left and I'll be brief. But this benefits everyone. It will benefit the dogs. It will benefit the community. It will reflect the values upon which this community should be based upon. And I'll finish lastly by saying, the word animal advocate sometimes can get a negative connotation to it or labeled as animal advocates. This is one of the most proud things I've ever done in my life. The amount of sacrifice time, the criticism we've taken as much sheet as anyone for some of the things we've tried to do. So I would say let it all be advocates and care for the animals in 2015 from Danny and care for the animals in 2015. From Danny and Gina to voices to the council. Thank you. Thank you, Bill. Do you have any closing comments, Dan? I would just like to make it clear on the PAC for rules that was untrue about the dogs not being regulated with feeding. There's very strict rules now with dogs letting that state that how long the dogs need to be off to other. And it is a minimum and we do try to exceed that by all means. But I just want to clear that Pac-Fa has increased a lot of the rules recently because a lot of the issues and a lot of the things in the work that the voices has done. Man, that they, they, they, you're supposed to submit a plan to Pacva about how you're supposed to get them off the tether, but it's not a requirement. It is not a fine if the dog stays permanently chained. Now of course feeding, of course you have to feed to a standard. And that was because of our work that they made that change, that they said they have to be a plan submitted to time. But there is no penalty for keeping them permanently changed. Dan and Gina have implemented these changes on their own which we plot. Okay, thank you, thank you. And I'm going to call time. We need to go back to the amendments. Some modification or are you comfortable with where where I was going? Everybody on council? Terms of direction? No. Okay. No. No. No. Not at all. Oh. What is? Well, I heard citizens advisory group. Yep. Do you want us to determine the makeup of the staff to bring a suggestion back? Do you want us to meet with Danny and Gina? I want to meet with Danny and Gina because I think that they will. One of one of one of the goals which I hope we come away with is we have a business dog sledding operation and dog sledding has been very tainted with a lot of negative PR plain and simple We've got new owners We need to come together work together as a community to need to come together, work together as a community to make sure that this business can be very successful. We need to partner, they need to partner with us, we need to work together and to that end I would see y'all meeting and coming up with what that group might look like, how we might be able to setting up monitoring standards on your best practices. I think that can be done, but I see the citizens group comprised of five people, no more than five. If you get ten people, you got a convention. So about five people would be good. And maybe it's an application or people that are interested. I can't figure that out, but I'm sure our town staff can figure that out. Any other thoughts from? The one thing I think just to go over, I mean, I can go through the list, but I think I accomplished. But when you're working as a council, I know each individual said something. I just want to make sure that everybody's buying off on the completion of the list. And I'm assuming there's a lot of agreement, but I just want to make sure that everybody's buying off on the completion of the list. I'm assuming there's a lot of agreement, but I just want to go through it so we're not going down independent desires. But one is a selection of an advisory group. And maybe we can just do this as kind of head nods, but as majority there, then you guys can have a motion with all these requirements at the end and make sure that they direct staff with these requirements. Citizen advisory group, milestones, times and completions with the goal of needing to create accountability, get the best practices in place. Fix the purchase option language in section 11, make it clear. I'm reading notes, so take up for what it's worth. If there is a violation of standard dog care practices, there needs to be penalties for the violations included in the lease. Those need to be easily determined and be quicker than the current language that we have in there, which is not compliance with the law. Ensure that the standards of care are raised. Again, a timing question about housing being completed. I know the citizens committee could look at, is there a way to get dogs more time off leash, but that wouldn't be the least, but we have a discussion of the committee potentially. I acknowledge the limitations of PACFA, that those are minimum standards we're aiming for a best practices type situation, potentially address breeding regulations and other standards, and then fundamentally set standards to look after the wall for the dogs. And then what I'm understanding is we'll have some flexibility staff to work with the owners to kind of come up with some language to do that. Yeah, I'm thinking the breeding issue should fall under the best care practices if it's under there. I think. Yeah, I kind of, that will definitely, gobby gook there. Do we want to have any more discussion about the purchase option at the end of this lease bill you brought up the issue of, you know, what I speak, the lack of town owned land to do anything on. So I mean, I heard that, and I don't know how anybody else feels about it. It struck me as something that has value. And at least I think we ought to have a little bit of a few minutes of discussion to see where everybody else is on this. What do you all think? It's really stupid. No, just the way we got here and the fact that it's so limited by the HOA and that but that's where we are and so I guess like I say my there are other ideas that I could have if I had that we had to control the property but I think that I'm happy. I think I'm pretty positive about trying to embrace you guys moving forward. And I certainly know if I were in your seat, I'd be looking at that option as a big part of my deal. I did think similar to that, but similar to the economic discussion that I guess that was brought up. If you're not able to continue on, it's kind of the thing that I wonder about, either in getting to the end of the lease or you guys having to terminate. I guess we still have that we would still have the same right or approval process that we have now. If someone else, let's say you guys want to sell your lease to the next person, right? We would still go through the similar process, same process. We would still go through the similar process, same process. Well, it would depend on timing. During the first ten years there's an obligation. You've waved that obligation of Dan to personally operate it. And the town council had it in their sole discretion to consent to an assassination of the lease within the first ten years. After that 10-year period goes by and that for lack of a better quality or descriptive term personal obligation of Dan McKeech and to operate the amenity the town council if a qualified operator is presented to the council the council cannot unreasonably withhold their consent to that app. That's the nation. And so that is a much lower standard. And the council of the day that made the exchange agreement. Wanted to make sure that the business continued to operate as it was operated so that it would be a viable amenity for that period of time and then was going to allow the purchase and lowered the standard for a change. So John just to find clear my mind. At the end of this lease period there's an option. In the middle of the lease period. In the middle of the least. In the middle of the least. 2016. Oh, oh, sorry. Go ahead. You're going to question. But yeah, and then he goes on for 10 years after that. So in John's point where he's saying Dan had to operate it. For the first 10 years, that's till 2016. Then from that point on, the options available, there's no requirement. There's enough. And there's a lower standard of approval that the council has relatives who operate. So there's an option, is the option to buy it any point after this first, after 2016, through the remainder of the lease? Yes. That's how the lease. Yes. That's how it works. OK. And at the end of this lease, which is whatever 2026, 2026, the lease can be renegotiated. The option still stands. No. Well, the option expires. Right. The option expires. Right. The lease can be renegotiated or the town can say we want to sell the, the town's options are to sell the property for a single family dwelling. When? At the end of the lease? Yeah. Yes. Right? A sale, a sale property is single family dwelling. Operate the property in the same manner as it's being operated or create open space for the entire property. Yes. I thought that the land had to revert back to the divide ownership. I believe so. Okay so you're right we don't have many I, but it's not a very wide range of options. Only a portion of, remember, the 0.7 acres that the divide can, that path can only be open space. Right, and that's the, maybe I'm not right on this and just for the sake of the only, the really ugly option, the like just kind of ugly option, I'll leave it like that, would be to not grant the lease approval to let it stay in the possession of the keychain, let that whole crisis then go on, and then there would be other options for the town maybe in terms of other options. Well, actually the covenant is with the divide, so it doesn't change the ultimate potential uses of the land. So if you, as a council, decline to approve the assignment from McEacham to Danny and Gina and Dan were to be found guilty. It doesn't change the ultimate uses of the property. So it continues a dog-sledding operation, single-family residence, or open space. That's as to the lot 45 that is less the .7 acres that the divide kicked into the exchange agreement to allow the broader operation. John Kudda, under the way this lease is structured put another Type of restaurant be there and or dog current operation. Okay. Do we want to get into this whole discussion tonight on? No, I don't think we necessarily have to do that. I think that we need to do a little bit more homework. Well, I think I don't know that you have to make the decision tonight, but you absolutely have to come to grips with the option to purchase. Because I can tell you that the deal that Danny and Gina have struck with the seller, McEachin, is valued based on the continuation of the option to purchase. And evaluation would be extremely different if that was not continued. So I'm not saying you need to come to a decision on that tonight, but I've heard different perspectives on council with regard to that option. And that's a background piece of information that you need to have. I'm personally very comfortable with maintaining the option to purchase contingent upon the satisfaction that council and it comes to 2016 or whatever the date is that the potential would be executed that all the other issues we've talked about earlier in terms of the amendments has been satisfied. Yeah, we continue. Mel, did you have a comment? I'm going to question. Yeah. Just to be clear, Mr. Morkin was that a sign or of that Sobrikay. Al Blumenthal not here on behalf of P-Trap. I just have a question because I'm getting lost in the legalities here. Once they, let's assume they exercise the purchase option, are there conditions running with the land along the lines that marking the others been talking about in terms of the quality of the operation that will exist once the count once the town no longer owns the land, is that spelled out in the documents after the exercise of the option? No. Because I would think, I mean, I don't have a personal problem with the exercise that I can understand why, but I think the town still would be concerned about exercising that option and then not have any conditions running in essence with the land as the quality of the operation because Danny and Gina exercise the option a later they could sell to somebody you have no right of approval on and you don't know what kind of operation is going to be there. So I would just suggest if you stay with that, you want to have some conditions running with the land that would be recorded and part of that, as long as it remained a dog-slighting operation. And understand that would certainly affect the value of the deal that's in place. Just to be clear, so if we decide, the anti-ingene decide not to exercise the option of I, the town couldn't build employee housing there, for example. No. That's what we got here. Right. I mean, that's one of the factors that was considered the original exchange agreement. I don't know if that's how we got here, but it was one of the factors that was considered in the original exchange agreement. I don't know if that's how we got here, but it was one of the factors. Okay. Okay. I think it's an interesting point, Mal. I think we're all kind of wearing down. Okay. So in terms of the amendments that Clint suggested a second ago, or do I have a motion? I don't know if we want to put that in motion. Just I had agreement. I think- If you just take a motion to direct staff to prepare at least with the issues identified by me. Okay. You vote on it. Then at least we know that's the majority of all the council and we've got some flexibility to continue to work with with Danny and do I have a motion accordingly Chris I wanted to I think that I would like to at least have that idea that Mel brought up explored so that when you guys come back with these other issues, we understand where we stand. That way, we just know whether you guys agree with that, whether everybody's on the same page, so just want to make it. So could you add that, could somebody make a motion and add that as a? Oh, so moved to sleep. You all agree, we will explore all the avenues that you brought out with the emotions. Okay. Okay. So we're all in agreement. I think someone has an objection or something they want to add to this. I'm going twice. You should speak up now. I don't think we have anyone who is disagreeing. Okay. We didn't do a motion. We didn't go into this. Just kind of consent. I was overruled. Well, it was overruled. He brought it up. I did. Well, Danny and Gina, I know this is very tough for you to sit through. It is your business. Your passion is clearly there. It exudes the passion for your business. And we want to see it successful. And we must work together as partners to make that happen. And to all of us who are here this evening, I do hope that you spread the word that both Dade and Gina are working very, very hard to bring that business into the best in class, something I'm already very proud of it. And I can be more proud next year as we continue to see this evolve. And I want to thank both Bill and Lee for being here this evening. And I think we're starting to see a tide turn a little bit because of the wonderful work in your commitment to your passion. Thank you guys for your time. Thank you. We'll see you in a couple of weeks. Okay. Thank you guys for your time. Thank you. We'll see you in a couple of weeks. Okay. Thank you very much. Do you all need a break or are you all cool? Let me know what we are. You're good? Okay. We're going to keep going. Next item on the agenda is resolution number four series of 2015. And this is a resolution authorizing the expenditure of funds budgeted for the grant contracts for health and human service organizations. And I see Mr. Hornbore coming up chair of the board. I will be recusing myself since I happen to be executive director one of the organizations that applied for a town grant. So, Mr. Circus and why Markies recusing yourself I would just like to make a note on page 150. The resolution there is an error. It says snowmask community outreach fund. They did not apply for a grant this year, so it's youth zone. Or youth zone. And it's also on all of your work sheets as youth zones. So we will make that correction in the amendment when you make a motion. Okay. Okay, hi, John. Hey, bye. Let me start. Yeah, why don't you just start with the President? President, this is Grant Review Board met on December 4th. There are five members on the committee that I chair. Adam Gilbert is a new member. He is one of the youth directors at Snowmass Chapel. And he recused himself for any consideration of Snowmass Chapel grant applications. Rick Griffin, a longtime resident from Joshua Company, myself, the business broker, Susan Cross, who runs Buttermilk Mountain and Linda Pilewski. There's a lot of experience working with nonprofits. We had 24 applications this year, asking for $152,000, a little over twice our budget. And we used the same criteria that we use last year, which was to try to be as generous as we possibly can be to those organizations that serve the needy members of our community. The elderly, the sick, people who are dying of cancer, other diseases, the poor and the youth. And in order to do that, we had to say no to a lot of people. We are recommending the grants be made to 16 of the 24 applicants. And we've tried to be as generous as possible to those organizations that help the neediest. So on page 150, you'll see our recommendations. If you'd like to ask any questions about what these organizations do, go ahead or if you'd like me to run through it briefly. If you'd like a quick summary, I could take a minute to do that. And then on page 152, there's a detail of what each organization asked for and what the citizens grant review board recommended as a group. Sometimes there was some dissension among the members of the group on some of these grant applications and what our basic rationale was. I'd like to highlight just a couple. There are two secular operations run out of snowmast chapel. There's Camp Smash Box, which has 300 snowmast village kids participating in it. They asked for $10,000. We recommended $6,000, which works out to a subsidy of $20 a kid, which is pretty modest. And then the other program run out of the Snowmass Chapel is the Thursday night dinners, which is a completely secular free dinner to anybody who's hungry on a Thursday night. And we recommended a modest amount of $2,000. And if you take $2,000 by 450 Stomass Village residents who participate in the program, it's $4.44 a resident. So you can get a feeling that our first criteria was to be as generous as possible to those organizations that support the neediest members. The next was to be generous to those organizations where we got a lot of bang for a buck. So for $4.50 we're feeding 450 people. The only other note that I would make is that there was some discussion over the little red school houses grant award. They asked for, they asked for $7,000. No, they asked for $9,920 to remove mold from their building. And we felt, we felt as a group, we were unanimous on this that since the town owns the building, it's the town's responsibility to make it for a healthy environment for the kids. And so we're recommending that the town grant $7,000 to the Little Red School House for their programs to support their programs. There are 50 snowmass village kids in the Little Red School House of 140 bucks a kid. We recommend that the council take up this mold issue as a separate issue for the little red school house. And the only last point is that last year when snowmass chapel submitted their grant applications for their non-religious organizations, there was strong feeling among some of the members of the CGRP that the chapel set of separate FO501C entity in order to receive funds from the town and operate the non-church-related organizations. They haven't done that and they still are operating out of a unified budget. The account for the non-church-related activities separately, but we're recommending to town council that as a condition of receiving the money that it's set up a separate bank account for their non-church-related operations that it set up a separate bank account for their non-church-related operations that are run at a SNMS chapel. So that's $75,000 that we're recommending be distributed as is described on a page 150. Thank you. Thank you. Any questions? I have a question. Yeah. Here you. Questions. I'm going to start. I have a question. Yeah. Here's my question. So I didn't know what you so was so I looked them up and I looked at their website. And it does not say that they serve snowmass. It said the salt, aspen, Elgebell, Glenwood, there was no snowmass village. So I was kind of questioning why we're giving them $2,000 when we weren't even one of the communities there servicing. No, in their application, this is the second year that we have asked each applicant to number the number of snowmass village residents who they serve. And youth zone in the last year served 19 so mass village kids. And I can probably give you some history on that. There are an after school program for the kids and the reason that there's no snow masses because our kids are considered aspen kids. Well, that's what I kind of thought. But I feel like if they're serving snowmass kids, they should probably put that on there. It's in their application 105 I'm sorry 19 kids which is 105 dollars per kid To keep them out of trouble, okay, and the legal cost of letting a kid go through no listen I'm all I really money well-spin I subscribed to the whole you sewn and the ask-be-use center all those things I just was surprised when I went on their website and I didn't see Snowmass listed as one of the areas that I... Yeah, whatever, we actually, the board was systematic in making sure that each applicant identified how many Snowmass village residents were served and for the death camp they didn't say. So we didn't, we cut them out altogether. Okay. It was, it was a strict parameter. My other question relating to the number of served is Smashbox. I mean, you said that Smashbox serves 300 snowmass village kids. That seems like a lot of kids in snowmass village. I mean, I know a lot of kids that go to snowmass, I mean, go to Smashbox that don't live in snowmass. So I'm just wondering how they got that 300 number. I they counted them. I have to I'm assuming that they're honest in their county of the number. I mean, does anyone else think that seems like a lot of kids? It's a big part. It seems like a lot of kids. It does feel like a lot more than AVSC skaters from. They're not just kids from Snowmass Village. They're people who they are guests who come here on vacation and then go to that school. So they can. So that counts in the number. So that counts in the number. It's there's three camps a summer for three week a week each session and they're not just no mass village kids but they do belong to the snowmass village gas. Okay. And I have their application available if you'd like to see it. Well, no, I mean, it just seems, I mean, I don't know how many kids live in snow mass village, but it seemed like a lot of kids at that camp and it seems like a lot of money to be giving to Smashbox. I mean, I don't know. That was my only thought. That was my only thought. I mean, in that direction. This is kind of a bizarro process. And my thing is maybe it happens in a lot of communities. I don't have enough experience of it. But the process of kind of taking municipal funds and then handing them out to religious or otherwise organizations and trying to figure out is I'm not criticizing it. I'm just saying it's a complicated and kind of troubled process in my own mind, but that's just me. And within that, and having twice as much applications for twice as much money as you had to give away, and then having to make a selection process is difficult. give away and then having to make a selection process is difficult. And similarly, I sort of had a question, the note, you know, mountain rescue aspirin, well this is a ski co and pick and county responsibility. And I didn't really understand why that would be the case. And of course, they're not going to maybe necessarily count snowmass village residents that accurately either because they are predominantly I guess rescuing people who need rescue. But I don't know I'm talking out loud and I apologize because it's already been long but I do find myself when we go through this process questioning why two or three different grant amounts or let's say going to one particular organization like the chapel and why that should, I'm not against it really, I just don't understand why. And then the Little Red School House is a complicated one too. I mean, what we own the building, but I mean, they run a school, right? So they're just very, they're all kind of could there's not a whole lot of purity but luckily it's not that much money and it's probably good for the community the community health what was it called community health services is that the one that we approved money like when I try and remember like one of the police officers came and explained that we should really have this sort of the drug rehab. No, okay. No, this is preventative health for the entire community. It serves far more than Stomas Village, but in their application they noted the 251 Stomas Village residents were served last year. They do. Blue shots. Blue shots. Blue shots. Blue meetings. Blue meetings. Blue meetings. Blue meetings. Blue shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots. Flu shots I got it I guess I got a question and I don't know to which John it belongs But this little reds the little red I'm not sure the little red schoolhouse thing If the town owns the building Then why isn't it the town's responsibility to remediate the The mold and why is why is the school house even making a request via this grant? I would have to go back and look at the terms of lease from the late 70s but I think that they agreed to maintain all the good dollar a year at least. Yeah. And they agree, but I can get the lease. And I may be able to answer that question before you, before we leave here tonight. OK. Yeah, that makes sense. It's a dollar lease. Yeah, it does make sense. I guess that does make sense. Well, that seems like an important one. And if that done, then we have kind of a conflict as well. So let me turn that around and for the moment, while John's looking that up, was the $7,000 that you grant committee agreed to, is that the total cost to remove the mold? No, it says that's for programs. It's for programs So they've been granted to $7,000 but they need $9,000 to remove the mold The the mold remediation was the bulk of their request They're asking for a lot of money or the number of kids who they support in the community. And so we scaled back their request to $7,000, which is $1,000 more than we gave them last year to support the program efforts at this. So they requested $9,900, right? So one- For an old remediation or for programs? Both, but the bulk of the grant request was to fix the mold. Oh, the bulk of the grant request, the bulk of the 9900 was to do the mold. So do you know if the $7,000 is, will cover the mold remediation? Okay. Because they didn't break it down. They just said it's for programming and mold remediation. I got it. Okay. So, and- But if we grant the $7,000, we can tell them that it is for what it's for. Because they have to give us a financial accountability by the end of the year. So if we give them $7,000, we can say it can't go toward the mold. It has to go towards the programming. So there's a finding there. I before I would do anything like that, I would personally, I would want to hear what John Dresser has to say about who's responsible for the maintenance. Just explaining that part. Yeah. John, well, what you're looking this up, is it appropriate for us to table this discussion, move on to the next item until you can get that answer and then we can come back to this. Sorry, they can kind of hang you up, John. I'm looking. I can ask some other questions. Yeah, I have another question. Go ahead. You got more questions. Chris can go first. So just give me a second. How do the Thursday dinners work that? These are homeless people or these are out there. They're lefties. There are anybody who Can use a free dinner. I say that's what happens in 450 people. Yeah That's over a year must be there's four 400. It's just in the winter season. It's in the winter. That's the total number of dinners. Like it's not 450 at night or something. It's like four. Total. Yeah, yeah. Okay. It's 100. Go ahead, Alyssa. Well, first of all, I just want to... I know that going through these applications is a very detailed process. And I know that you guys probably did your best to come up with these thumbs and how much you were gonna give everyone. My question was about the Extreme Sports Camp. Have we ever given them money? No, I think it's new. It's, I think it's been, I mean, does everyone know what Extreme Sports Camp does? Well, no, I don't know what this one is. Well, kids that are on the autism spectrum, they have the ability to go and participate in sports. You know, they might not otherwise have the opportunity to participate in. Kids who are the what? That are on the autism spectrum. Oh, OK. But there are only two. Wait, there's only two. I was just curious. There are only two kids two I was just curious. There are only two kids I was just curious so that's not I we felt that that wasn't enough They didn't have enough impact on the community of some us village to merit Consideration and since it's one of the biggest similar to community health services Can you tell us a little bit about hospice of the valley? And Why like why they need additional money. Hospice of the valley serves the neediest segment of the population. People who are dying. Right. They, they, they, they only served 30 residents, but there's 30 people who are dying. And we wanted to be as generous to them. No, I just wondered. So their application is that they have, for whatever reason, they have a short fall on their operating fund to care for people. Yeah. Otherwise, they wouldn't be applying for a grant. You know, it's not for salaries and administration, it's for to subsidize the care of snowmess village residents. We made it absolutely clear for two years in a row now that if an applicant wants to be considered seriously, they need to tell us the number of snowmess village residents that look after. That's a good way to clarify it, as opposed to just going into a general fund or something in part as to their fundraising. Yeah. I mean, we're not requiring, we're not recommending that the town have a separate budget for the hospice of the valley just for snowmast, village residents, but the review board required in the grant application process for each applying, each applying entity to specify the extent which they support our people. Any other questions? No. It's not easy. It's the challenging thing. Oh no, it's not easy. We had a lot of we had a lot of dissent. I had two members who didn't want to give Stomest Chapel anything because they didn't do the final was C3 and they were outvoted 3-2. And with the compromise we made was that we recommend that town council insist that the checks be written to a separate bank account, a new bank account that they'll use to operate the non-tritual-related operations. Do they? Do any of your grantees provide you with any type of accounting for the money that they all spend? They all do. Okay. So, even though there wasn't a 501c3 and the money got mixed in with everything else. They give you an accounting of where that $15,000. A quick book. Little accounting summary for each of the different programs. So they can do their best to make sure that their non-church related operations stand on their own two feet. Right, okay. Okay. Okay. Do you know anything more John Dresser? No. Unfortunately, my network connection only allows me into four of the directories that I should have, of the six that I should have access to. So I've got notes here for our IT guy. It's a very old document and it's from 1977 or 78. Basically, right when the talent came in, I don't think that public works. I did get an email from Anne Martin's public works director and said she was unaware of the mold and so that was just the title let me see if I can inform you what she had to say. Tonight's action going so. Anne says I was not aware of this issue was not in the facility assessment for your information. We just installed a new furnace in 2014. You're going to have a suggestion? No more. I mean, in a review of the Little Red School House's operations over the past two or three years, the bulk of their fundraising has been to bring that property up to compliance. So in contrast to the rules for dogs, the rules for looking after preschool kids in Colorado are very strict. And the property they've been handed, the property they've been handed has been out of compliance in a number of different issues and they've really had to scramble. And so this last mold thing is like, how bad can it get for them? They've been working very hard to raise funds to change their fences, to change the way water and snow fall off the roof, to bring their playground up to compliance. So I guess you said it, but why wouldn't we then consider helping them solve that problem, which as opposed to fundraising for programs seems also maybe mutually beneficial to both the town and the students and the kids? I mean, I say go for it. I think you should probably have a review of the town's obligations to the Little Red School has to ease some of that burden for them. Right. I'm just asking. I know. Sorry. Clint, you were going to make a suggestion. When the budget was set, the council put $75,000 in to distribute. If you're comfortable with the recommendations, we will look into the lease, see what our obligations are, see what's gone on. And we can look at that mold issue more. I'm under the understanding that it's been dealt with, and this is kind of help pay for the effect that it's already been done. That's already been done? Correct. We can look at that part, but I think the question before you tonight is, is the allocation before the advisory board correct? I mean if you wanted to add some flexibility in the distribution of the little Red School House from programming to whatever they thought best and you could certainly make that as part of your motion and then you know the work of the advisory board could go forward from there. Yeah well I without knowing if this remediation has already happened or not happened, it'd be hard to try to designate. I don't know that it would be appropriate for us to be designating where the money was supposed to go because maybe that's not where they needed anymore. You know the words they've figured out recommendation is to restrict it to programming. If we just said it's too little red school on for programming or a mediation, if you're comfortable without flexibility then they could make their choice. I think I'm ready to make a motion to approve the resolution with the amendment as described by the town manager and with the note that I would love to maybe at least spend a half an hour, 45 minutes and a little work session, sometimes understanding this or just discussing it amongst ourselves. Maybe it's more of a strategy session thing too. Because you know, like the grants kind of come and then there's sort of in it. We might want to, I don't know, express a different idea. You want to discuss the grant situation or you want to discuss our relationship with the rest of the grant. Grant situation. Just have that open discussion a little. Maybe it would be helpful if we read the, I mean, usually each year we try to get criteria from the council and prior to next year getting the grants if you can come up with a criteria that you're interested in, then we can apply that at our meeting. But if you have the criteria with you today. I know. I don't think so. But as I say, you guys have done a lot of work and so I've got, I'll go ahead and put that motion. Okay. And second, anyone? I'm happy to second time. Bill seconds. Go ahead and put that motion. Okay. And second, anyone? I'm happy to second time. Bill seconds. Bill seconds. Any discussion? All right, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you, John. Appreciate the work that your committee has done. And as with many of these things, we try to tune them up as time goes on. Thanks. Thank you, John. Okay. Should we get Markey back? John's going together. All right. Is he going to get her? I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. don't talk in your microphone. Okay. Okay. Let's give right back to work here. Thank you all. And let's move in to this is item to discuss workshops. Clant. So this is just an idea that's been discussed informally in a number of different occasions. Currently you all hold two regular meetings a month where you are at the formal authority to make decisions, past motions, past resolutions, those types of things. The idea we would like to put forward and have you agree to is that we institute a different kind of meeting, we call a workshop type meeting on the second Monday of the month. At this point we would recommend it starts at 4 o'clock that we would not necessarily televised it so it keeps the informal format that we're aiming for, and that we could discuss the number of topics that the council's said they'd like to discuss. And the list that ongoing list that I've kind of got right now is from tonight, an update on the roundabout. In the past, the council's talked about an update on lease laws. A meeting with the Board of County Commissioners is a tradition we usually have, that a workshop would be a tradition we usually have a workshop to be a good format to have. There's been a request for an update of the review that General and Truman District how it operates, but it's budget is the background on how that's done. Circe, the CML Circe Ethics Training, and I can go on and on, but I've got a list of items that I've heard the Council say that they'd like to have discussed. And I'd like to start a workshop so that we do that on that second Monday. And start kicking off some of these topics just for informal discussion updates. And then if they progress to where they need formal action, we schedule them for a formal council meeting. But when topics come up, it's a great place for something to start. Make sure it is something the full council wants to discuss formally later on and go from there. Alyssa, good go. I think it's a great idea. When would these start? We could start next week. Auburn, I have a conflict on Monday night. Yeah. Exactly. I know. We know what you got going on Monday night. You guys are the ones that get you guys. Sorry guys. Okay, it's Martin. That's the full yet. Yeah, that might be a bad one to start. I have to get out of here early. Yeah I mean the answer is we can start whenever you want to the bus. I think it's a great idea Especially given that you know, there's so many new people. I don't know if you want to delimit them in duration. Kind of come to that agreement ahead of time. So you can schedule. And the other thing is, is Bill had trouble getting here at four o'clock. And sometimes if you went five o'clock, it might be better. It's just suggestions that you want to think about. The other topic I didn't say that I think should be one of the earlier agendas is goal setting I know this counseling hasn't had it and instead of having a standalone meeting where it's impossible to get the five you to show up We use an hour of each one of these for a while and get something going it'll take a little bit longer but a Little bit breaking between hour long discussions would would probably be helpful So but a little bit breaking between hour long discussions would probably be helpful. So, John brought up a few good points here in terms of perhaps starting at five. My offices are now in Glenwood Springs so it's a little bit of a drive. I could make it at four and perhaps we start maybe since next Monday won't work. How about the fourth? Fourth Monday? Bill, what's your calendar like? I know I can't make it next Monday. Are you guys all having a party or something like that? Bob and I are going to the National Championship game. The National what? The National Championship game. Oh, oh. Oh. Oh. the national. The national championship. Football true. I'm about priority earlier. You're a bucket. That's the place to be. I'm a back guy in Bob. Maybe a studio. What does everybody look like? That's going to calendar. 26th of January is the full. But if we're trying to set this as a standard, let's just, I mean, if the second Monday, the month start, we'll just start in February. And we can get, I mean, so much stuff in front of us guys. I mean, I would mind starting on the 26th. We've got, you know, we need to get some new plan. We're not sure if we're going to get a new plan. We're not sure if we're going to get a new plan. We're not sure if we're going to get a new plan. We're not sure if we're going to get a new plan. We're not sure if we're going to get a new plan. We're not sure if we need to have different rules, we have these sort of council attendance rules or something that we could do those for the workshops. So the night? Yeah, I mean, I think we've already in there. Already in there. So I think it's, I'm highly supportive of it. I've been advocating it for us since when I got on to council, because I think it's very difficult especially on these complicated issues to feel like you're having the time enough time with staff to really get their information and to work in a creative and cooperative way and then come back to the more formal aspect. You can still cover the same thing you still go go over the whole details, but instead of you know having to call Clan or John independently all the time to give us an opportunity and to learn from each other and ask each other questions I think is invaluable. It's from what I understand I think it's what they have two week I think in Aspen. They have two work sessions a week. It's because they so it's not uncommon. And I think it's really necessary as we dig into the more complicated issues. OK, second Monday. Second Monday. Are you all good for four? Yep. Yep. OK. Four or five? I don't. A five works better, but it gets you home pretty darn late. So it's and you can't get. It doesn't matter to me. It depends on how long you want to be. Two hours. Two hours. I think five to seven is five. I mean, I'm just seven. Five to seven. Five to seven second Monday. Yeah. And just a little tiny snack. So that'll remind us to get out of here. That's kind of, I have this exact same thought process. You get too much food just to get out. Well, we're not going to start. I don't know, you have an touch section. No, we'll start to be favorite. We're the ninth. Favorite ninth, right? Everybody good? Yep. OK. First, those, those, we'll, we'll work on going. Okay. And we'll get them, we'll start scheduling them out and hopefully you can start seeing them a little bit more. What they look like. Okay. And also it also gives you the opportunity on the 20th to set an agenda for your first more session. So. And whatever you want to do, yes. So, a client can kind of send out that list and we can kind of talk about what's coming first, second, third. Yeah, and actually if you wouldn't mind but I can schedule it out. You can now we can just tweak a schedule versus trying to devote on what the topics are. Okay, sounds good. Next item is appointments of Council to various boards. 2015, 2016. There are two, four, six, seven. Raffta, Brunei, Water and Power, Nordic Council, EOTC, which you all have to do, so there's not a choice there. Core, Northwest Colorado, COG, that's what I call it, CML. And as you can see in the past, we did not see to anyone on CML. We did not see to anyone on CML. So do I have any one that is just burning with desire? Page 158. I mean just to start, it's been rewarding to be on involved in the core board so far. I did talk with their director Mona and kind of discussed an outline for the future. And so I would just assume stay in that position. Okay. Going once, going twice. Sold. Sold. Okay, Jacob's in your on that one. Yeah, I actually was thinking about the water and power. Okay. Not that I really know much about it at this point, but it'll educate you. I guess I'll get educated. Anyone else interested in water and power? Going once, going twice, going. Nordic Council? I was kind of interested in that, but I could be swayed, otherwise. I mean, I'm also interested in Nordic Councils because I know a lot of those folks. Yeah, you should do it. Okay, so we're going to put mats in here. Now, I sit, well I've been the alternate for RAPDA. I don't mind continuing and that's once a month and it does get tedious. I do need an alternate. I do need an alternate. I can be an alternate. Good. OK. Alyssa and Markey. Now, Northwest Colorado Council governments, they need about what? Four times a year, three times a year. It's not very often. They're not right here. OK. Yeah, was it quarterly, as I recall. Oh, er, three times a year. It's not very often. I have it right here. Okay. Yeah, it was at quarterly, as I recall. Oh, er, that, you know, that was the one. That was the one where you, yeah. Every other, every other meeting was a phone company. Yeah, it was still, yeah. Yeah, they meet March, May, July, August, October and December. Anyone? Yeah, right. Every other one is a phone sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not to sign on for that and see how it goes. You make the drive to those distant means. It's going to really just to pant, you know, yeah, I can't really see the future that clearly at the moment, but in general, uh, Alyssa would be glad to alternate, so maybe the two of you. So yeah, that would be good. Why don't we do that? Because in general, I like going to the other places and sort of meeting the people and that was really rewarding about CML and stuff. So, okay. So we'll have two. Should we have Elicitate lead on that and you'd be back up given you've already got another one? Or you'd be fine. I mean, if it's it's how about you guys just work it out yeah well we're why don't we do that I mean you guys work yeah I think a lot of it just depends on the dates and the meetings where they are in our kids schedules well exactly so I looked at it and when I understand the schedule which will be more verified. Rhonda I guess some ways maybe I have no idea maybe Rhonda Ron, do this have the information? Maybe Chris and Alyssa and get the schedule and figure out. Okay. CML, do we want to set this one? These are meetings in Denver. This is the policy board. It's three meetings a year. They advised the legislative advocates are lobbyists. And so it can be anywhere from staff to council members. This is not how to do it. This is not everybody's welcome to go to the conferences, the webinars, all these things. This is, every town gets one appointment to the policy board that helps set the legislative guidelines that the advocates use all year. Can we give that to staff to do? You're the boss, yeah. Is this a meeting that you go to anyway? I don't go anyway, I mean I can go. It's not a problem. Sometimes it's completely up to you all. And I can say, you know, the policy board, in my 20 years of work with CML, they tweak the policy, the policy is pretty well set. So it's not a huge advocacy role. It's a good chance to check in if we're trying to get something accomplished, if there's somebody, someone's making an attack on whatever issue of local control that we care about, URAs, whatever. Urban renewal authorities? Yeah. A chance for us to defend it. But yes, if you want the town manager to be the representative, that's easily done. be the representative that's easily done. In the past, when there's an issue that's concerned to us in the legislature, legislature, we've gone down and testified. We've given our input to directly to Kevin, who's the lead lobbyist there. And we've been successful in a couple of things. One was the housing. You can do the housing thing. The change in the rent control statute to allow employee housing to continue under the agreements that were done in years past and aspen and snowmast were very. We've also done, we've also weighed in on the entertainment district which given that we already had auto-as-zones made a lot of sense. So we do monitor these things where it's kind of tough to get the Denver for meetings. When his Clint says so what you're saying is we could put give it the Clint and he could make his decision as the one he'd like to go. Exactly right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, and Mark, I'll just give you the example. You know, when it comes time for impassioned testimony, the former mayor and I went down and testified in front of the subcommittee and the committee to work on that employee housing thing. So, and they told us to do that. CML. If it ever comes down to testifying in front of the legislature, fellow elected officials always want to hear from fellow elected officials. They don't want to hear from bureaucrats. So, if they definitely don't want to hear from lawyers. And so, if there's some need to testifier talking front of you will be tapped. But this is more of the policy grant work behind the scenes. Okay. I think it would be perfect. Can I just remind you of something? You've got an EOTC meeting that's booked for February 19th. Can you please put that on your calendar? I will be in Denver for a physician appointment that day. So I will be able to attend so so can how about the rest of you I'm looking what day of the week is the Thursday Thursday Thursday what time is it at four o'clock I will be I'm available okay I am two we just need three this should be all the minute February 19th at four o'clock yeah is. Is that what it is? I think we're hosting here. Yeah. How long does it go? Oh God. Two hours. Until it's done. This is generally two hours. In my short time here, it's a tough meeting to schedule because there's 15 elected officials were trying to give to the meeting. So it's a tough one. Depending on the topic, it can go four hours. Oh no. It's a tough one. Depending on the topic, it can go four hours. It's really exciting stuff. Oh, it's super exciting. And do we need to appoint proposed alternates for the EFTC for all these? No, the only one that needs an alternate is Raffta. And then I think with the Northwest Council Government, that was allowable to have an alternative as well. So I think you got those set. We got them. Okay. Do you have a passion for something? No, no, I just wanted to make sure to cover in our bases. Okay. Okay. Planning Commission appointment as well as that of the marketing and. Before that matter, if I could. Okay. The way we kind of set this up is for two year terms so you don't you get to sit up these seats and tell the next election so we won't be doing an annual oh good so this is a one-time project to accept that opportunity for two-year appointments it aren't we yes we are we are we a citizens appreciate okay planning commission. We can either, in several ways, we can do that. What we've done in the past is just have a piece of paper and wrote down names. Are you comfortable with that or would you prefer to nominate someone and we just take a hand vote. Sorry. What is it? In terms of these boards, planning commission, we have two options what I see in terms of voting this evening. One of which is somebody nominate, very similar to what we did for the council seat. And then somebody says second and we vote. Or we just have Ronda to pass down a piece of paper. We write down. You got ballots. You got ballots? Okay, let's just go right to the ballots, getting light. We've got ballots. You've got ballots? Okay, let's go right to the ballots. Get in light. Just one quick point. Just for new council members. You can vote and we don't have to vote. They have a total of the votes. But if there is a request, these ballots aren't secret. They're public information. So someone can say how to counsel Matt's and vote or whoever. And we will have to divulge how the votes went. So we have ballot one and two. Is this for this? Is this planning? This is one. One is planning. So we're doing our first choice. You have two votes. I'm sure you got to set you. Yeah, exactly. Go for it. So the first one you vote on is planning and yes. And one is planning. And could be ballot too as well. Oh, all right. Okay. So we're planning planning and what may happen if we don't have. Yeah, if you have more need more planning than we've got to marketing here and have to do. Okay, pass her down. Okay, pass her down. We all have a bunny. You only do one. What? Just give me one. Oh, I thought we're just doing planning. We're just doing planning. You'll get another cup of. I was all ready for the other one. Oh, yeah. Thank you. Four votes for Jamie Norton, one for Keeho. There you go. It will be Jamie Norton and to all of those who applied, thank you very much. The next will be Marketing, can we use ballot number two? Yes. We have two applicants. Steve, stay and John Borthwick. Okay. Yes or down? Yes. Is that the last that you need to lay it in? Yes. How will we have to do the resolution. Thank you very much. John will be our new member or reappointed member to the marketing group sales and special events board. We have two resolutions. One is resolution number five for the appointment of the Planning Commission representative replacing Bob Circus the candidate that has been recommended or requested by all of us not unanimous but is Jamie Norton do I have a motion for approval of resolution number five so move thank you Thank you, Bob. Do I have second? Second. All in support. Aye. Next is resolution number six. 2015 resolution appointing the new members to the marketing and that would be John Borthwick. Do I have a motion accordingly? So moved. Second. Thank you. All in support. Aye. Opposed? Now do I have a motion for adjournment? So moved. I propose. Now do I have a motion for a German. So moved. Second. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Bel. I just wanted to see if I give T5. you you you Thank you.