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I'm going to do it. you you I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the you I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the you I'm going to ask Roda to call the All who are in attendance this afternoon at the town council meeting. This is March 2nd, 2015 meeting. I am going to ask Ronda to call the roll. Butler. Here. Jacobson. Here. Circus. Here. Madsen. Here. Shane. Here. And to all of the listening public, you're watching us on Granicus. I'll quickly go through what the agenda will curtail this evening so you can accordingly plan your evening. We will have a few public comments move right into the consent agenda, which will take probably five minutes. But there's some critical issues this evening on our agenda. The first of which is a potential amendments to the Criblinic lease. John Dresser will be leading us through that legal document. I do understand that Danny and Gina are coming, if I remember correctly. Yeah, we do, we hope so too. We will be looking at the EOTC. This is the elected officials transportation council council which is comprised of individuals from our PIC and County commissioners, the city of Aspen and us we have a meeting on Thursday. Discussion of possible action to adopt the town council goals. These come from the recent work session that we had, we won by a lot of discussion on our town council goals. And then the first draft of our 2015 community survey, Kelly will be here to talk about that. And then that'll be about seven o'clock tonight when we get to that part hopefully, maybe later than that. So it'll be an interesting evening of a lot of discussion. And we look forward to everyone's input and comments. Without further ado, let's move right on in to public comment. Do I have anyone in the public who would like to come forth and make a comment? We'll be doing individuals who want to discuss Cribloonika, make a public comment. That will come in during that agenda. Anyone else want to step forth? during that agenda item. Anyone else want to step forth? Seeing no one, let's move into consent agenda. And this is when we have several items. One is the draft agenda for March 9th, 16th and April 16th meetings. And the next Monday is a work session. Review of calendars for March April and May. meetings and the next Monday is a work session. Review of calendars for March, April and May, and then approval minutes for the 17th. So I will entertain a motion from a member of my council to see whether or not they would move the consent agenda. So moved. Do I have second? Second. OK. Any discussion? Second. Okay. Any discussion? Just, I guess, I have, this is more of the question and I could come here or it could come later on for our work session. Perhaps it's to you, John. On the presumption that the Planning Commission finishes their Recommendation this Wednesday at their meeting Can we the council begin the discussion of that in our work session next Monday? No Why? Because the code provides it Consideration of the sketch plan application occurs at a public hearing. So does that to say that we won't be able to discuss anything related to the sketch plan in a work session? No. But not on the 9th. We have to give notice that a public hearing will occur. Okay so we have to break the ice with a public hearing. The entire consideration is to be part of a public hearing is the way the code reads shall consider at. Okay but once we get through the 16, we can have work sessions and we can discuss issues relating to that sketch plan. You would probably have to amend your rules for work session that you, I mean, that would be then fully recorded and probably televised meeting. I don't know. If you don't want to televised it you don't have to but okay I guess that answers my question. Okay. Any other questions about how the items in the consent agenda looking at your calendars will any of my fellow colleagues be out during any one of those months and if so a ronda does need to get that information sooner than later. Replating purposes. Aranda, we're talking about the- The calendars. March 8, Rodney. Yeah, I won't be here next Monday. Okay, Bob is out on the ninth, Aranda. I'm out in May. May for the work session. That would be the 11th. I'm out in May also. Bob's out in May. May for the work session. That would be the 11th. I'm out in May also. Bob's out in May. The 11th? Uh-huh. We may want to consider a different date for the work session. Anybody else? OK. Thank you. With the questions that were asked on the consent agenda,'s move forward with the vote on the consent agenda for approval on support say aye Opposed same sign Okay, let's move on in to our next item on the agenda And quite frankly we're ready for Griblinic Are they here in the hallway? They've millers out in the hallway. Okay, we're going to take a quick two-second here and see if they're, if not, then we'll move on to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go Gina, you're on. Gina and Danny, you're up. And Dave, did you want to sit at a mic as well? You're the attorney representing? I have a question for you. Well, you just may want to be there just in case. You never know. I never know with this group. OK. I don't know with this group. Okay. Are we ready over in the booth? Okay, we're going to move forward. I do want to welcome both of you back to our town council. We're all excited to listen to you tonight and to get your input onto the draft lease that we have in our packet. I will share with you my colleagues and I probably have a lot of questions about the lease. Where you are and how things are going, but I do want you to know that we are looking forward to hearing about the changes, what you've learned, and what is ahead for the operation of Cribloon. So having said that I'm going to turn it over to John Dresser who will introduce the topic this evening. Thank you Madam Mayor. It's pretty much everyone knows that Cribloon lease the town and the Cribloon Inc.ated entered into in 2006 has been discussed to be amended based on the new ownership of Criblinic Inc. by Danny and Gina Phillips. And everyone knows, I think, that they operated the Criblinic sled dog and restaurant operation. Last winter season, they are well into this season now. And this is actually their second season. The town council had previously given a conditional approval to the transfer of the stock in Criblinic ink from Dan McKeech and the prior order to DNA and Gina. And that, the condition on that conditional approval is that the landlord, the town of Snowmass Village and the tenants, Criblinicate now owned and operated by Danny and Gina Phillips, come to a satisfactory resolution of amendments to the lease. So we've had some discussions. Both the council with staff, with Danny and and Gina and David Myler is here and he represents Dan McKeech and who in a 10-genal ways involved in this lease in that there's a condition and it's for a receiver agreement. It's based on the stock purchase. There is a chance that because Dan is financing that purchase, there is a chance that Jean and Danny would default on that agreement and the ownership of Cribblery can cooperate in there by the lease would revert to Dan. And I guess I'll just start with that particular term. The receivership is a methodology that David and I have discussed as a way of preventing Dan from coming back and operating Croplinic. And the receiver agreement, which is attached to the draft of the lease, is clear in exactly how that happened in that dam while he would own the corporation. All the shares were stocked in the corporation of Criblinic Inc. He would not be permitted to operate it. And if he came back into possession of that stock due to a default, the corporation would be turned over to a receiver to operate the business while it was being offered for sale. And then would be have no part of the operation. The receiver would be entitled, would be entirely responsible for that operation as well as seeking a qualified prospective purchaser for the operation at that time. That's kind of a stopgap at the end of things if it doesn't. If Danny and Gina can't make it a viable business to pay off the debt to the prior owner. Then with regard to going to the lease, I took a stab at drafting a lease and there was absolutely no pride of authorship in this lease. These were just the subject matters and the concepts that were given to me both by Danny and Gina, David Myler, and by the council in terms of what the council would like to see what Danny and Gina thought was going to make it a sustainable viable operation for them. And obviously, David was at the table to make sure that it was nothing that would ultimately affect Dan McKeechens' interest as the former owner and finance year for this purchase and transfer. So I summarized kind of quickly some of the changes that you will see in here. The premises pretty much remain the same. The spaces remain the same. A lot of things pretty much stay the same where we start getting into changes around the dates of triggering events that were in that original lease. And council discussed and we discussed with the N&MG and I don't know if we got to a final resolution where everyone was in agreement. So that's why this agenda item is styled as a discussion of potential lease amendments. And hopefully when we get to the end of this, there will be agreement or there will be direction on how to further pursue maybe some fine points that arise tonight. So I think the biggest concept that is new in this lease is probably I'm going to jump around a little bit here, was the idea of a standard of operation and we've put that in the draft language and calling it best practices. In the lease there's a provision that the best practices as submitted to you in Exhibit A. And the exhibits aren't marked yet. This is still a draft agreement, but the best practices. There's the best practices exhibit, and there's the Kublinik adoption and reduction dog plan. And there's also feeding, housing and modern care plan, which is actually part of the best practices, and then the receiver agreement. So the concept behind best practices was in the old lease, the only standard that the town could really enforce in terms of against the tenant in terms of the care of the animals was compliance with law, which let us go to the state regulations, PACFA is the abbreviation of the Pet Animal Care Facilities Act, and they are the agency statewide that is responsible for licensing of canals and operations such as this. And so until there was a violation of that, the town was, I don't wanna say powerless, but essentially powerless under the lease, because until there was a violation of that, the town was, I don't want to say powerless, but essentially powerless under the lease because until there was noncompliance, the town couldn't declare to fall. So we came up with the concept and when I say we, this includes the council, Danny and Gina and the prior owner of a best practices. So a standard of care, a standard of managing the dogs and how to operate so that they would be healthy and treated well and able to perform the services that they do. So that's contained in paragraph 10 and I've heard some comments back since you've seen this draft. And then the way that was going to be the best practices thus become a standard of care that must be met, or now the town can declare a default if the best practices aren't met. Okay, so those are standards now that are applied to this operation by the agreement of the landlord and the tenant and the way that Obviously Tom council members and staff are not going to go out there and inspect the cows and the the operation But there's provision in paragraph 11 of the lease to have a best practices review committee of the lease to have a best practices review committee. There's a provision in there on how that would be set up and what their responsibilities would be and how those standards doesn't really talk to how they would be enforced, but there were to be at least annual reports and that the review committee would periodically inspect the operations there to make sure that they were complying with the best practices. Additionally, the review committee could submit reports to the town manager describing circumstances or events which the review committee felt violated the best practices or jeopardize the health safety or jeopardized the health safety or well-being of the sled dogs. And then the town manager would review those reports with the tenant and they would, the landlord and the tenant would then periodically evaluate the need to modify or clarify the best practices. So those were, that was a way of kind of giving a little bit of more local input onto the operations down at Criblinic while keeping those to be terms of the lease. The way it's provided for in paragraph 11 is that there would be five members of that committee and That three would be appointed by the town and two would be appointed by the tenant Then it was the pack for rules were not specifically rules and regulations pardon me We're not specifically called out in the previous leaks. Now in this lease they are and as whenever they're amended. I guess partially in result as a result of the efforts of Senator Gail Schwartz and the voices for completing people, the PAC for regulations have been changed. There are now actually some provisions specific to sled dog operations that have been included. The budget has gone up. There is a field office out here on the western slope now that Danny and Gina have already been dealing with in terms of the ongoing inspections that go on at the state level. But that's called out specifically in the lease in paragraph 12. The receiver agreement that I had already specified is in there as well. Before we get into, I guess the rent and the purchase option, I would also mention that part of the past problems, I guess, for lack of a better description, was it seemed like there was overuse of the property there in terms of the number of select dogs. One of the things that is in this new lease is a adoption and reduction dog, a number of dogs reduction plan. And I got an email last week from Gina and we had been discussing what that number ought to be. Under the land use regulations it's 250 dogs and I think there's a perception that maybe that's too many and the prior owner got above that and I had to do Reduction Not according to a plan and and kind of scheduled and that kind of stuff Gina told me that they're currently operating at 225 dogs They probably need that to finish the season and that their goal, you know, this is a really tough number to arrive at because you need to have enough animals to be able to provide the service that people want from the operation while being sustainable and still have enough animals to be healthy to do that. So they, I don want to say they struggle, but it was hard to come to the number. But in her email last week, she said that would be 175. But she also pointed out that it's going to take a while to get from 225 to 175. I think as pretty much everyone knows, there has been an ongoing effort to adopt out the sled dogs that are over time and age. And I don't want to say that it's not productive, but it hasn't been quite as successful to reduce the numbers as fast as maybe people would like. So we put in the lease that there would be a five year period to slide down from 225 to 175. And then 175, 175 would be the standard through the balance of the lease. And it would also be the, I'm getting into some esoteric here. It would also be something that carried over if Danny and Gina bought the property. So it wasn't a lease term anymore, or they sold it to anybody. There's a provision that the best practices, which are really only a contractual agreement between the landlord and the tenant. But Danny and Gina in this lease have agreed that if they exercise the purchase option, or they exercise that, that it will become a covenant which runs with the land. So the number 175 and the duty to do best practices become a covenant with the land. So the number 175 and the duty to do best practices become a covenant with the land. So long as it's an operation as a sled dog and that covenant also will apply to any future owners that the any and Gina would sell to. So that's a way of keeping these somewhat contractual obligations going on as a covenant to whoever would buy it. Another thing that the town council requested, I guess this is a concept that wasn't always real clear, but in the original lease, Dan McKeech and basically had a personal obligation and not spelled out that way, but buying through Kubootek and Dan McKeechon basically had a personal obligation and not spelled out that way, but by and through Kublinik, Dan McKeechon had to personally operate Krablinik as a sled dog operation and restaurant for a period of 10 years before the option to purchase that land kicked in. So it wasn't a viable option until he had done that for 10 years. Well, that 10 years would run September of 2016. And the original request from Danny and Gina was to assign this lease to them. And there were conditions on how that could happen. And that was that the town had it in their unlimited discretion whether or not to allow Dan to assign this lease to a third party within that first 10 years of the lease. And then after he'd run it for 10 years, he was allowed to assign it, and he was allowed to assign previously, but it was sole discretion to consent to that assignment was in the sole discretion of the landlord. After he had operated for 10 years, if he didn't exercise the purchase option, he was allowed to assign it to a qualified operator of the sled dog in the restaurant upon the consent of the landlord, which consent shall not be unreasonably withheld, which is a far different standard than sole discretion. So, Council, this is one of the things that you discussed. Danny and Gina had indicated that they would like an extension of the ability to extend the lease beyond 2026 for a period of time, council you discuss that and council also wanted the personal obligation that's not the exact word but you wanted that ability to have Danian Gina run it for a longer period than basically 18 months which is where we are from now to September 26 so that-stage assignment of this lease in this draft is extended to March of 2021. So that's basically six years from if this lease is approved and entered into, it would be six years from now rather than the 18-month period that would be under the terms of the old lease. So, that's when the assignment provision goes from sole discretion to consent that will not be unreasonably withheld. So, Danny and Gina before that they can assign it to a new buyer without your sole discretion consent after operating for six years. That is also the time that we know I'm going to go into the purchase option. It is also the time that the purchase option can be exercised. And it's actually five years from the date that it's an extension of five years that they have to operate. So, Dan would have been able to exercise or assign the exercise to purchase provision in September of 2026, 2016. And now that purchase option will be not available to Danny and Gina for five years, 2016, just September of 2021. The other change was there was a complicated formula in here regarding what the option purchase price is. Now this is a change that I inserted without discussing it with David and Danny and Gina. So imagine that might be a subject that when I was reading the original lease, it said that the purchase option, the purpose of it was that, let me see if I can get the exact language here for you. The option price will be determined by the formula described below, which is intended to assure that the landlord will recover the full value of its investment in lot 45 and that is a lot that was given to the town and lot 42 was exchanged and lot 42 was sold and I don't know what the price that lot 42 was sold for but it seemed to me that the way to recover that the landlord would recover their full investment would be to be repaid whatever was made on not 42 and that's what the option price was amended to so the formula was taken out. And as I said that's probably a subject for discussion because it wasn't how that I was actually drafting and reading that I realized that we already had that number. So, the other part, the last part that I think I really need to talk to you about in terms of summarizing this was that the extension option, this is the option for DeAnne and Gina to extend the lease. This is, this is, we come to 2026 and they have not exercised their purchase option and they want to continue to operate Cribloonic as a tenant rather than an owner. And the council, the language that was submitted by Deanna and Gina was that it be a tenure extension and the council had previously indicated before you knew that that was the proposal five years. And so we put in five years in this draft lease and that's certainly something that can be discussed here tonight. And one of the things that as the landlord was included in that section was that the operators, Cributicank, Danny and Gina, would give us one year's notice that they had intended to extend that option. So in 2025, they would give us a September of 2025, they would give us notice that they were going to extend for those five years, which would make the overall lease until September of 2031. And like I said, there were differing opinions on the length of that lease extension between the council and the tenants. So I think that summarizes pretty much what had changed from the prior least. And obviously, Danny and Gina are here, David's here, and we'll be happy to entertain any questions that you have. And I don't know if Danny and Gina want to talk about her, David wants to talk about it, but that's about what I have planned on presenting. Thank you very, very much, John. I'm sure we'll be back to you here in a few minutes. Good evening, Danny and Gina, and welcome, Dave. In terms of our discussion tonight, I think it's very important that we all understand why we're here and the goals we have in front of us. There's one notion we can spend time talking about the details of the lease. The other is we can spend a lot of time talking about what our vision is and what we want to accomplish. But most importantly, over the last few months we've learned about the vision that you have for Criblinic and you're in the process of making that vision happen. So I think it'll be very important to listen to you in terms of your vision, and then we will go through the details of the lease. And I will intertwine that with some goals that we hear within the community in terms of the history of Cribloony. We've been through a very, very difficult few years with Cribloony. All of us in public office in our community. We've seen statements made, we've seen a lot of press both locally and nationally and internationally on our operations here and I applaud you on the work you've done so far and we look forward for what your vision is. But even in tonight's discussion about best practices, which really is the hallmark of good operations, one never stops on best practices, one continues to improve and learn performance improvement as always what makes companies the best in class. So tonight we invite to learn about what you see in terms of that vision. And then secondly, listen to you for a period of time and then we'll dig into the details of the leaf. So I'm going to turn it over to you, Dan Hingene. Well, first of all, I thank you guys for your time and it has been a long process to get to this point. And I have completely understand where you guys are at with the past. And I'd also like to thank everybody who's worked to where we're at to this point with the lease and things seem really fair. It seems like we develop the best practices and submit it to you guys based on our feelings and how we feel that a kennel should be operating and ran. And we're happy that you guys agree with us and we look forward to moving forward with all of these things. Kriblinik is definitely in an evolution right now and and every single day, things are changing, things are getting better for the dogs, regardless of, you know, pressure, anything like that. This is how we feel. We feel that these best practices, and I want it to be clear that we wrote these best practices. This is what we submitted to everybody, and it is our goal. Since this has been written, we've adopted out a lot of the litters that we were on site from the last two to three years. That were young dogs with shorter coats. And we feel that by reducing those numbers, that was a good way to start. A good way to get things rolling with those younger dogs that could get out into the public and have a successful domesticated life. And you know that that's our goal is to get to change the image of the sled dogs and I want to I also want to say that we had a really warm winter so far and there was a use for those dogs. There was a use for those short-coded dogs. And, you know, we strive to always make sure every single dog is well-taking care of. And I want everybody to know that we had a winner and it was warmer and our short-coded dogs were degraded in this warm weather going up and down the mountains and there was a need for them. But also on the other side of that we understand where people are coming from. We understand what you guys out there are thinking about short-haired and short-coded dogs and we're willing to change the breeding. We love all dogs, so but we can see where that image could But we can see where that image could maybe affect the town a little differently than what it really is like. We've also installed a hundred new dog houses recently in the last month. We've put in, it was a challenge to find a dog house that would work with what was out there. We love the porch system. Previous owner had built the plywood dog houses with the porch last summer. We found that the sled dogs can get shade underneath there. It was a place where three or four times a day, we were watering the kennel and misting the dogs. It was a place that the sled dogs can have a place that kept them nice and cool with the ground. So we want to continue things like that. Everything that we're trying to do is, you know, I've got to stress that we didn't create this. We didn't raise these dogs. So things do take time. We're, you know, we stepped into this because we could do the job. And I would hope that the public would trust us enough to understand that we're doing our best to train these dogs to have successful adoptions. We're trying to work on the other times. But things do take time. We're at a place where we're, you know, I've been there for a little over a year now, and I've learned 200 flood dogs every single personality and what I can do with them. And as the offseason is coming forward with us, I think that we're going to be a lot more successful this year going in the offseason with trained dogs that understand how to free run, they understand what we want from them, and it's taking time. And I do see that everything in the future, we can do a bigger scope of everything in these best practices, and we can, everything can get better for the dogs. And we really strive for that. We've added glycosamine into the diets and salmon oils, and we're still feeding the top food that you can buy for these dogs and continuing with the holistic care of massage and acupuncture and just really working to these dogs run a short distance. But we train them like I did a rod athletes that when they come back in, they're given every amount of calorie that was used and they're getting everything being checked out. The dogs are also checked. There's a system of checks and balances that we use. There's myself and two other managers that are on site all the time and every dog is checked by one of us at least once a day. So that's three times a day. Every single dog is being checked. They're always being checked when they came back in. We really love these dogs like you would take care of your kids. And now that it's an investment, it's an investment in the town, it's an investment in everything, and that just takes things to the next level. We're in the spotlight, and we accept that, and we want to be that way, as far as being with these best practices. These are things that dogsled muskers are calling me, and they're saying, tell me how this is working for you guys. Show me how to do it. Let's look forward to more kennels developing and trying these things out. I think it's very clear that we're in the spotlight. And if you give us a chance to experiment, I think you'd be very happy with the end results. I think it'll be what everybody's looking forward to seeing in a very short amount of time. Danny, I have a question for you and I know it's going to come up this evening and that gets into the issue around tethering as part of your best practices and you just spoke briefly about the summer time of the off-leash program. And then the best practices you speak wonderfully about tethering where you are today. Would you see at some point that you would have a no tether program? No, I don't. I think there will always be some dogs that just can't live in that social environment. The maybe they... Just part of that social environment. It's a very good social environment. When you live with these dogs 12, 14 hours a day, seven days a week, you know, we know their personalities. We know what they're thinking. And we know when they're happy, and whether they want to run or not. But they live in a social environment that even though they're tethered, they have the ability to touch three or four other dogs. They intermingle with one another. We're able to individualize the dogs. We know how much that dog is eating, how much it's going in the bathroom, how much it's drinking. We can individualize those dogs that way, but yet they're still at a social environment with one another. When dogs are put into chain link fences, it creates an aggression where dogs fight and they go back and forth and they never have the opportunity to solve that. It creates an aggressive dog. Our dogs and the kennel is designed where they have to work those things out. If the dogs were living in kennels, I would never be able to free run these dogs. The ability for them to work things out with one another is why I can free run these dogs. If I didn't have that opportunity, we wouldn't be able to get 10 dogs out a day. We have strived to get 60 dogs out a day by the end of the fall season last year, where we started out with a pretty small number because it was dangerous for the dogs. My ultimate responsibility as their caretaker is to keep them safe. And keeping them safe is not turning 30 dogs loose to run wild right now. Maybe I can do that in three or four years, but I can't promise that. I can promise you that I have one of the top traditional kennels innovative and I can promise you that we will always strive to move forward and make things happen for these guys. We want that ourselves. Annie, just to follow up on that, I need to let my fellow council people ask you questions too. When you say ten, you had issues around just letting ten dogs off. Oh, yeah. And you got it all the way up to 60. What were you seeing other behavior issues that come when dogs are used to touching one another and the aggression? It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. come up and they happen. And I don't want a dog to get hurt or mangled because we think that it should go off that day. When I could take the dog on a walk, I could move the dog. And we do things like that. We work with the dogs. We have a timeout program. If they are in a fight, and we try to, they don't last very long. The more I train them the less it'll last but you know when when I feel the energy of the dog now being right I can put that dog into a timeout and it can watch the other dogs have fun and then I can walk the dog on a leash until the energy level goes down but it's really a experimental I mean if you really look at other dogs letting kennels I'm the only one doing this that's trying to make this happen. And it's not, we love it. We love the time that we get to spend with the dogs. I've increased, we've hired staff that are not guides. They're just people that there to help assist with the sled dogs and are adoptable dogs that aren't running. They get just as much or 10 times more affection and training. So we're employing people that the adoptable dogs have a successful off time without us. But it's really hard on the adoption end of things because right now the dogs have not been trained to be domestic but they are in the process of being trained to be domestic and this will always increase. It's same with any part of it. We're taking it from zero and trying to get as high as 100 as fast as we can. When we will reach 100 but I can't tell you how long it will take. I just want to make something clear too that with all the changes and everything that's happening and you know, as of right now, as of today, those dogs are happy. They're happy. They're healthy. They're on tethers. They get attention. We love them. Our staff loves them. And so we can always build on that and make it better, but those thoughts are happy. And I know they're happy and they're well cared for. So I want to make sure that's clear. Questions before we move into the lease. Okay. You've seen the terms of the lease. And since this is draft, we invite you to make any comments or ask questions as well. Our goal is that we all are on the same page at the end of the discussion. Okay. The least. Questions? Alissa. I got questions. Okay. I got questions too. We all have questions. Go ahead. I spent a lot of time going over the lease and really thinking about a lot of the changes that were suggested by you guys, things that we had suggested to John. So here are a few comments that I had. Most of it has to do with the best practices review committee. So right now, in the lease, it calls for five members, three to be appointed by us and two to be appointed by you. And a couple of things that it says about the members are what I wanted to talk about. Right now, it says to be a member on the committee committee you have to be regularly engaged in the business I Propose that the language is changed so that It could say something like Recognized as an as a personable knowledgeable in the field because to me Engaged in the business it means someone like Seth from the Animal Shelter or someone from Care, whereas there could be a community member who is very knowledgeable but not necessarily engaged in the daily business. So that was one of my thoughts regarding the language of the committee. It also says that the decisions are made by our majority vote, and that one member that's been appointed by you guys has to be in that majority. Does everyone understand that? Okay, so I think I don't know how I feel about that. I mean, part of me, you know, can understand why maybe it was suggested by you guys, but the other part of me feels like, is that person's vote going to be swayed because of that? And I don't know. That was something I wanted to see how you guys felt about it. So that's what I'll say about that, and then we can discuss it. Okay. Go ahead. Do you have anything more specific about the committee? Because I have some questions on that as well. Yeah, I do. I had... Let's work right here on composition. Yes. On the committee? Oh, the committee. Let's just hammer one of these principles out at a time. Okay. So we're going to stand up committee. Let's just hammer one of these principles out at a time. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um, I think, well, that was the big, the big thing about the committee was how they're going to be appointed in terms of their experience. And then the other thing is, um, the voting. Okay. Those are two big things that I think that we should talk about. is the voting. Those are two big things that I think that we should talk about. Well, okay. My, I guess my comment about the committee is the following. We've talked about having the best practices run with the land. If you guys either exercise the option and sell it or if you want to have the lease transferred to somebody else. So we know that the best practices will continue going forward. The question in my mind is if the best practice review committee is supposed to be the group that monitors, if you will, the monitoring group or the recommending group for the best practices shouldn't that also run with the land so that again if you sell the operation or if you want to transfer the lease in the operation to somebody else that that best practices committee is maintained as well as the best practices themselves. Otherwise there's no mechanism to monitor the best practices. So you want survivorship of the committee? Yes. I mean, I think that would be our intent. That's our mind intent. That would be our intent. Okay. Shake other heads. You guys comfortable with that? Yeah. Okay. It didn't look like it in the survivor, when the survivor ship, receivers ship that that transcend to Dover to the receiver ship. I didn't see that. Yeah. Okay. Maylar. Maylar. Can you please microphone call? Thank you, Dave. Yeah. Thank you, thank you. Move closer please. Let's pick it up. To you. Move closer to you. Let's pick it up. To you. Move it. To respond to a list is concerned. The three, there's two qualifications that we wrote into this and we're certainly open to your suggestions. But one of them for the committee would be that there simply be residents of snowman village irrespective of whether they work in the dog business or not, for people who weren't residents, we suggested maybe they ought to have some connection to the care and treatment of dogs. And if you want to expand it to say people who have some level of expertise, I think that's fine. That was the spirit. I now when I look back and I read it, because I see the or snowmass village or Shelby, right, I just, I took it to mean that whether they were residents of snowmass or whether they were of the greater Warringford Valley that they had to be engaged in the business. So maybe if we just changed the way the languages and use something like I said about knowledgeable in the field of, you know, I think that would help. Because I just, that's a good question. Yeah, it just felt, I don't know, felt kind of fine. What were you in the mood for strength? Yeah, I can see when we were reading it that way that it would be too limiting. But thank you for pointing that out. Here's a question I imagine that you talked about this. Would the application process to become a member of this committee follow what we do in our town for committees and commissions of boards or how Was that discussed and how might we envision that does? We don't envision it that way because it's really not Yeah, it's not a arm of the town. It's just that the appointment resides with the town council and the other side of the appointment to the committee resides with Council and the other side of the appointment to the committee resides with Dean and Gina. So this isn't something that you would have an application from a resident to be on it. This would be something that when an vacancy period you would select someone. It would not be formal in any manner in terms of the town. It's just that you have it's like you have the right to a point to root our water and power, but you don't take formal, you know, you can appoint. But if we don't know how are we gonna know or do we interview? I mean, it's not clear of how we select the three people unless like step fourth and we have an interview or have a resume or something. I don't have a problem with that. I'm saying it's not going to be like board commissions which are a point required by charter or by code. But if we appointed in the same time frame, same process so that we could interview, they could have to get set it up for the council's convenience that wouldn't be a problem with that. You can ask it out anyway you want. Okay, let's see I'm trying to get what are the terms what what would be the process I Clint I was going on in my mind along the same process that you're thinking in terms of that process and probably? Well, remember, this is something that's designed to go on after you're not the landlord. It's not that you want to take on oversight. This isn't agreement between the landlord and the tenant. The more you close it in, this is a fictional action by the town, et cetera, et cetera. The more you are bringing down the hand of government into a private business. Okay, so- I understand you're the landlord. The problem that I'm- it's not a problem. What I want to be assured of is we have the right people at the right time on this committee working in tandem with Gina and Danny's two appointees. I think that's extremely important. And then you get into what I call committee fatigue and then all of a sudden people don't show up and we don't know what's going on. We do get a report so I would. So the thought was it's a three-year or four-year, the town appoint you for a three-year or four-year and you can be re-optor. What have you or you like the committee come forward with how they want a structure but this is too loosey goosey in terms of how you might structure the committee and our appointment as far as I'm concerned. I don't know what. I understand what you're saying, Mark. I mean, I kind of, when I talked to John earlier about the least, that was one of the things I was thinking about is, you know, just procedure and how they're supposed to operate and how many meetings they have. But I think a lot of it is sort of going to be then meeting as a group and kind of setting up the original rules, but maybe for appointment purposes, you know, they're going to come up with their people and they kind of say, well, this is what we're thinking. We're thinking we'd like, you know, to a point of veterinarian and so and so and so and whatever. And then we kind of either ask people in the community that we think should be on the committee and also open it up to people that we might not know that would want to apply and you know have some kind of basic interview process. It doesn't have to be some big deal but just to know that we're getting the right people and then they can kind of structure okay maybe there you know some of them are on three year terms and some of them are on four year terms so that not everyone is leaving at one time. But I don't know I think it's kind of a work in progress. I think the main thing is, is that we establish that there's going to be this committee and how many people it's going to be made up of and go from there. I would give it some parameters. Either the committee will come forth in terms of how they're going to self-regulate in terms of link the term and or two year, three year, four year staggered terms or what have you on a committee because you don't want to get into one of these brief for our alls and it gets to in sessions. Well is this something Clint or John that we could talk about at a work session maybe? Did you guys hear me? So it's something that we could talk about at a work session maybe. Did you guys hear me? This is something that we could talk about it a work session, maybe structuring with them the committee and what it would look like in the role. Sure. I mean, I think that would be a big good idea. Markey, kind of where you're going is kind of productive to what you were talking about when you say terms and replacements and that kind of stuff is, oh my god, I've got to do this for another year because of my terms up. And if you don't structure it that way, but how you structure it is that we want to hear so many reports from this committee, then you're getting kind of keeping the heavy end of government out of how they operate and how they report to you and how they interpret best practices, but you're still getting that report. And you may want to make that reporting more frequently than annually is provided in this language at the onset. And then when you as the landlord become more comfortable that best practices are being adhered to, you don't have to have, you can change it so that it doesn't have to be that frequently. And you've got a deeper comfort level with your tenant. I don't know, I just think, if you're worried about committee fatigue and someone's been on it for three years, they get a point for no, it's three and they're like, wow, I got to serve another three. You know what I mean? It's just, well, I don't necessarily agree with you, but that's okay. That's okay, but it's your lease. I'm just, how about we push that over into the parking lot for a work session? Is that okay with you guys? Yeah. So the composition of the committee? The composition and how we get there in the whole application. But I have one other thing though relative to the committee. We have that they're going to do an annual report and the annual report goes to the town manager who says nothing about it's coming in, it's being distributed to the town council. I'd be interested in seeing the town council review and react on the report. Oh yeah. That was a provision that I saw and I might take was a little different. I'm with John on one thing. I think I don't think you want to be as definitive when the report shows up. There might be more. The damage, I mean, it might be less. So I think that number might be too tight. But by providing it to the town manager, the town manager's got a chance to work with the owners at that point, and we can probably work through whatever the issues are. And then any town manager worth a salt will of course inform his bosses of what's going on and we'll do that and to obligate that it goes to the council instantly will politicize it one way or the other. No, I don't want to. I'd like to see it at some point but I don't think it's distributed to the. And I think if you get it to the manager then the manager whoever that manager is at that point is going to know hey this is an thing. And if it's, if it's nothing shows that, but there's nothing big, then we're not actually going to get something on your agenda. If something is big, that's the manager's job is to figure out where and when it should be advanced to the council. I think by that language that's put in here by Mr. Dresser, I think that hits your goal. Sorry, I said, let's roll up my tongue that way. By John, then you guys, that's the job, that's the manager's job to make sure you're getting what you get when you need it and you're not being in a data with reports when you don't need them. And that's one of those trusted issues going forward, I think. How about other members of council? I had another comment. Okay. I had another comment. Under 11 a, it says that the committee show periodically inspect and review the operation of the kennels to determine the extent blah, blah, blah to which they're meeting their best practices. I don't really like the language periodically because I feel like what does that really mean? I think it should say something like no less than blank times a year, and maybe as John was saying before, maybe at the beginning it's going to be more, and maybe at certain times it's not going to be as much, but periodically doesn't really do it for me. I feel like we need to be a little bit more specific. And maybe it says periodically, or no less than three times a year, and maybe they end up going every month who knows I mean that's what the committee is gonna determine needs to be done at that time, but I don't really think periodically is Is specific enough? I agree Does anyone have any comment? I agree Besides Markey I think that's fine. I mean, to make it more, a little more structured, it's fine with me. I do think that, you know, as we move forward, I think everyone anticipates that the operation will only get better. At least the current, you know, current people. So I don't see that as a, I guess I don't see it as a hardship on the committee. And I don't see it as a hardship on the tenant. So if you just remove the word periodically, would that achieve your goal so that there's no time? I mean, I think you need to put something a little specific. I mean, you know, either no less than three times a year or quarterly, whatever it is. I just, I think that it's important to know. One thing is to keep in mind that it is a somewhat of a seasonal operation. So there's a lot more. I, please correct me if this is an incorrect statement. But I would think that there's a lot more going on and happening in a winner than there is in the off seasons in the summer. And if that's an accurate statement from your perspective, Danny and Gina, then I would think it would be reasonable for the committee to have more inspections in the winter than in the summer. I have a question on that. What would be the difference between inspecting when we're more busy than we're not busy? I don't know. I don't know. Only that there's more. It is a true statement that we are busy in the West. There's more activity. There's more work going on that dogs are doing. They're sort of doing their thing during that period of time. I don't know. And I may be totally out the lunch, but it just, that's just how it struck me. But I think a lot of those things like tethering, I mean, they're gonna happen in the summer, they're gonna happen in the winter. And you know, maybe, you know, the people on the committee come down when they're doing a free run to see how that works. I don't know. I just think that, that I think there should be some type of time that is required at a minimum. And if they want to go every month, then they go every month. But I just think it's in the forest. Maybe you do periodically. You started a minimum twice a year, and it could be eased. Would you want to change periodically to regularly? No, that doesn't really do. No, I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think it just needs a little bit more specific. I'm fine with that. I'd rather have it in the lease and take it out than not have it in the lease. I think it's important to know that our doors are never shut. So if you would all like to walk in once a week, we're fine with that. Why don't we put it in as quarterly? And I mean, I got to believe that this committee is going to want to be engaged and they're probably going to be there as you said a lot more often. Right. So let's put it in as quarterly. And hopefully it happens more often. OK. Are we done with the committee? Is that? No. Well, I'm fine with that. I'm done with quarterly. Are you OK with? I'm fine with that. I'm done with quarterly. Are you okay with I'm probably okay with anything good start It's a start. Yeah, we don't you know we don't know what we don't know because we don't have it So Let's put it in there. We can always adjust and listen to the committee make changes to that Okay, anything else on the committee? Well, my other thing was about best practices, which is in number 10, above number 11, which is the committee. I don't know if you want to talk about that now or? Uh, well, I'd like to go back and start at the very beginning. Sure. And then we'll hammer it on down. I want to go to use, which is number three. And I want to get Danny and Gina's thoughts on the 100 days of winter and the 100 days ski season. And you will not operate during the summer season. Can you talk about how that 100 days was ever derived? I want to think it also goes to say that then if we want to operate through this winter or the summer, it's up to our discretion. Is that correct? Oh, the rest. Yeah, that is correct. That's just for the rest of us. Well, here's a part of that. Is that Dave Miley? Is that so? Howler? Is that so? How does that read with the 100 days? The 100 days. So we're only allowed to operate the restaurant during the summer season? It says operation shall be open for business at least 100 days during each season and will not operate during the summer season. But then if you keep reading, I think it says something like that. Yes. The extent of the operation of the Kriblinic restaurant during the summer months shall be determined by tenet in its sole discussion. So how did the hundred days come into being? I don't know. You can do the last. You know, I'm just, I'm a person that doesn't like, well, 100 days if you go 101, you're in trouble. No, it's a piece of the consciousness. You go 101, you're in trouble. That's not, that's not. No, it's not. I think you're missing a chance. At least if you go 99, you're in trouble. If you give me a minute, OK? The dinner business has to be open 100 days at a minimum, not in the winter. In the winter, 100 days, OK? Subject to nothing else, it can be more than that, but it can't be less than that. So the humidity has to be available, this restaurant, the humidity has to be available 100 days in the winter season. There's another condition that the sled dog operation will be in operation for a minimum of 100 days in the winter except for weather. So if it's a dry winter and they just think of 76, there was, you be in the mud. Yep. They don't have to. Okay. Then the summer restaurant operation is in their discretion. If they want to open, they can. It doesn't mean they can't open. Okay. I want to go. I want to do the next part of my question then. I've been up to Alaska to some of the dog sledding operations and the summer as well as the winter. In the summer time, they do operate. And you probably know well about, have you ever thought about doing something like that in the summer time? Yes, last summer we offered kennel tours. And this year we've done a little bit of moving some fences and things to be able to offer a instructional mini type thing for education. Or more things in this. And I do remember we got on some type of roller device and you know what I'm talking about. Have you thought about doing something like that? We have and we can contain it to our area. Oh you could do it with it. Up in the kennel we wouldn't use the existing trail because it's too steep. Okay. But yes, we do need the ability to be able to expand, to be able to do things. Yeah, Dave, I just want to make sure that's in the lease. It's not prevented. Okay. It is not prevented, yeah. Okay. But to go back to your first question, why is it in there in the first place? I think my recollection in your testing memory cells that have been around for a while, the council just wanted to make sure there was an active business going on up there. They weren't interested in entering into a lease where the lights were going to be off. And so there were some minimum standards. But there's no magic to those numbers. Okay. Okay. I'm not gonna dwell on it. Okay. Next is you had best practices next, right? And that was, where is it? That's number 10. Okay, let's go for it. Okay. So in best practices, my only issue with that paragraph, other than section 11, should be section 16, which I already told John about, is that it says, tenant has been and will continue to adhere to best practices described on exhibit A as the same may be modified, clarified, and updated by mutual agreement. I don't know how I feel about mutual agreement, only because that means that they have degree and we have degree. And what if they say, oh, we're not really feeling like we need to do that. I, when I talked to John earlier, I felt like maybe mutual agreement should just be taken out and just say the same may be modified and clarified period. Yeah, I thought we had the word or amended. Or amended, sorry. Yeah. Or amended. I didn't write that answer. I'm sorry. I updated my mutual agreement. I had some further thoughts on this after you left today. Perhaps we tie that to recommendations of the review committee. And that gets, how do you decide to amend, modify or clarify? Is it only upon a unanimous recommendation of the review committee or a 4-1 or a 3? You know, I don't know. I just had the thought I didn't really get to flesh it out. Well, that kind of goes back to that whole idea of the voting and what happens with the voting, which is also something that I sort of had an issue with so that kind of goes together. Yeah. And in terms of that issue which hold on before you. Where is still best practices on the issue of no should a modified, clarified or updated by mutual agreement. I would anticipate and I could be clearly wrong on this, is Danny and Gina are going to continue to work for process improvement to enhance and to improve upon the best practices. This section doesn't say that to me. It says they're modified. They're modified to make you strike something out. Yes, you might be able to add something or clarified. I would almost think that the committee would have the opportunity that the best practices are reviewed, updated on an annual basis. And to the extent possible, those would be contained within the annual report or the quarterly report that would come back. That's contained in 11b, the seconds of the last sentence. The tell manager shall review the annual report and any other reports provided by the review committee within a reasonable time after a seat based upon such reports. Landlord and Tenant shall periodically evaluate in good faith the need to modify or clarify the best practices for the purposes of implementing reasonable measure measures to improve the quality in life. So it is covered later, but I understand Alyssa's concern with language intent. So to me, this is, to me, we got two things going on here. We have the tenant and the tenant can operate their business as they want to. And they can recognize, recognize opportunities to improve their best practices or modify or clarify. And then we have this best practices committee that also has perhaps some responsibility or authority under 11b to make recommendations for changes and improvements and so forth to the best practices. So to me, again, without my legal, no legal lease here, section 10 kind of covers the tenets ability and responsibility and authorization, if you will, to make changes and modifications to the best practices. And 11 takes care of the committee's responsibility and authority to do the same thing. So, I mean, that's how I read them. No, I think you're right. My issue is with the language and mutual agreement Because what happens if the committee says, you know what? Any mutual agreement because if that's the, if that is the, if that's the part of this section that provides the authorization for the tenant to do, what they choose to do to operate the business in the best possible way, then we don't have a mutual agreement. It's up to the tenant to make those changes and recommendations, and it's up to the review committee on the next section to make recommendations to the town manager and eventually to us to do the same thing. So I think we don't need mutual agreement. That's what I was saying. I said it should be taken out. Dave? I don't. If you take it out, I think the law would still require mutual agreement to amend the contract. Otherwise, you don't have a contract. What we tried to incorporate was a concept of a good faith consideration of the need for modifications based on the recommendations of the review committee or the town council for that matter. But I think that if one party can unilaterally amend a significant element of a contract, you don't really have a contract. And I don't think the town council wants to give Danny and Gina the ability to unilaterally modify the the best practices and so that's why I Clarified the fact that because this is a contract as opposed to legislation for example it requires mutual agreement in order to modify it I can, I wasn't. There is a good faith standard and if you want to strengthen that, that's fine. If you want to put some language that, you know, the, uh, reasonable modifications will be, you know, subject to approval, which will not be unreasonably withheld. I mean, there's some of this wishy washy stuff we can throw into the contract just to make sure that it's not totally arbitrary. In my original thought, I had thought of something like, you know, reasonable discretion in according with prevailing industry standards or something. Like, let me do some thought to that. It's not that I sewed dislike me, Joe Green. I just felt like it was sort of out there and there was nothing to reign it in I don't know that was my And we also have good faith in it which I think is all a standard and obviously if they're not dealing in good faith that's a potential breach of the contract. Yeah, the vote. Okay. And so also in the best practices when you reference exhibit A, which is going to be the document you guys wrote on best practices, you say in there, it's a manageable number of dogs between 170 and 200. And in the least it says it's going to be 175. So I think that would need to change to 175. It's going to be clear. Yeah. Just what in the thing that you guys wrote, just to be consistent with what John had put in the lead. OK. Anything else? I'm going to say it out. I'm going to say it out. That's practices. Sorry. Let's move on down. Any questions on the other provisions? No, it might be helpful for you to just explain it. I know getting to 175 is kind of an awkward number, but maybe if you just said, this is how many, on our biggest day we use this many dogs, how many dogs can go, often they can go out, those types of things, just kind of put it in reference for us. Sure, we run up to 27 sleds a day. On heavier snow days, we'll run 10 dog teams, and that would equal 270 dogs that could go out. We have a very young healthy kennel, and that's my goal is to create a younger, more healthier kennel, where the dogs can run twice a day. We've made a lot of modifications with the trail and different things that the sled dogs really is kind of a walk in the park for them. So they have the ability to run in the morning and then run again in the afternoon or the evening. And that will help us to be able to lower those numbers as we have a younger kennel as our dogs become adoptable at 10 years old versus when they're done running at 13 or 14 years old. But potentially during our high season we could have used 350 dogs. We were booked. The demand was there. We were booked solid Billistically, that's the demand was there. We were booked solid for six weeks. And still right now we're still running 20, 25 sleds a day on average. So we're still have the ability to use 250 dogs. And I think that's what is something that we try to put out to the public is that our dogs aren't really going that far and we have the ability to run some twice and they're happy and they want to do it. But we're all still in the training process where we got to make sure this is right, this works, this is what makes sense. You know, the phone rings off the hook and we try to accommodate as many people and get them out in this exciting adventure and show them our lifestyles and it gives us an opportunity to educate every single person, to do those doors and everybody walks away with a smile and they're happy and they have an understanding about it. So the less people we take out, the less people we would educate. Well, no. The model that we're working with does require a large amount of dogs. And that's just the way we had to come into the season and do everything that way, because of the timing of everything. But Danny and I are working on different business models and different ways that use fewer dogs and things like that. And that does take a little bit of time as well. So that's part of the time is changing the business model as well. We have to change a lot to accommodate fewer dogs and ways that we can strengthen the adoption program and stuff. But changing the business model, I mean, we have to. And it's been the same model for 40 years. It's also with the breeding too. As we start our new breeding for larger dogs, the more traditional looking dogs, there's a lot of smaller dogs that were born at the kennel. And it uses more dogs. And you have a smaller dog. The math is a typical sled dog pulls twice its body weight and so when you have a 40 pound dogs it can pull 80 pounds and as our dogs get bigger it requires less dogs to go up and down the mountain and You know that's we're working on that too. Not only is the breeding for Image and things like that, but it also is part of the strategy to be able to lower the number of dogs. Thanks. That's very helpful. You said you'd modified the route. Where are you going now? I haven't been on for several years. Oh, instead of having the section into the Perry Ranch, we shortened it up and we go on to the helm property. Okay. Oh. We'll be shortly to get up and we go on to the helm property. Okay. Oh, we're ready to move. Yeah, we're ready to go to the next part of the police. Well, John, you in your summary talk a little bit about the purchase and lease option. It's item 16. And I think you helped me understand that the pricing, the option price, would be essentially the price that was previously paid for a lot 42. Is that glad the right understanding? Then that proceeds, right. Okay. How long ago was that sold? I didn't either look it up or defer to Mr. Miler's memory. I think it was about a year after the lease so it'd been like 97. I don't know if it's about that period. 2007 or 0 97. Yeah. I'm not that bad. 2007 or 2007. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, is it possible to, well, let me get, I know everything's possible. Without changing your intent, John, is could we look up what the amount is and put the amount in there instead of this somewhat. I have to come over. I'm happy to fill that. You think this is commonly. Did you ever read the formula? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I did read the formula. It didn't make sense. Uh-huh. And that kept me up all night. The formula was on a clothing statement somewhere. Yeah, there was something missing in that formula. I'll tell you that. On that same note though, my recommendation would be real quick to add the time value of money in there too, with some escalation because that proceeds of 10 years ago or 8 years ago would be less and that's an investment that the town made 8 years ago and we've lost that opportunity. Some opportunity for that I think would be a reasonable ask and it would be a negotiation of course but you know whatever was, I think that would be fair to say, hey, that value of our property continues to increase at some rate and that time value should be included in that purchase price. And I think that's the last point I was trying to roll into it. I don't know that whatever the number needs to be, but I think just some recognition of that that we can work through. I'm. How do you feel? Anybody? It's obviously a factor. Yeah. The preservation of the amenity was also very much a concern. That's exactly the time. This deal was undertaken. So there's that value too. Right, it's a balance between. It might be an emotional value. Not denying that. Yeah. The Lord knows I'm low to disagree with the town manager for the stock. It does every day. Yeah, there was a balance. There was a balance. The conversations they get into preservation of the amenity versus that being a number, a numbers game. So I would, I don't mind putting something in there, but to go strictly with the increase of property values, I don't think is appropriate to CPI might be one. So how are we? We have deed restricted housing that has an opportunity. That's where I was going to do a deed restricted housing. As if it were a deed restricted. Or John's frowning. How about you guys come figure that out with some? What? Well, if you want to have something with... I don't know. Do you want? I'm fine with it, but I don't want to just based on property values at the time of sale. How about the rest of you? Well, I mean I thought CPI You know seemed to be a reasonable approach I was gonna do the lower 5% or CPI, but yeah, I mean, I don't know what that is, but That seems reasonable Okay, with that. You know, if you kind of threw it out there, but if that feels, if that feels right, then I mean a chance to talk. You, I understand. I understand. I don't, I can't say that that's not a good idea. It's got that. Let's be. I suggested it as a concept. How about you come back with us when you and John, you have the different. A long session agenda is good. Yeah, a good idea. And the important point is the preservation of the amenity at the same time, reasonableness. Okay. Okay. What else do you have there? Is that fine, Bob, and Teres? Chris, anything on the lease? How about you? Do you have anything else on the lease? No, I have nothing else on the lease. I'll listen. Your next. Oh, it's back to me. Yep. Thank you. This is the last thing I'll say I promise. Number 26, holding over. I don't know. I just think it's so. It says that basically, if the tenant remains in possession of the premises with a landlord's consent, such holding over, she'll be a tenancy at will at a rent equal to 115% of the last monthly rental provided in the lease. I mean it's like a joke. I mean they don't pay anything anyways. I just it seems like I mean they do but you know what I'm saying it's so nominal nominal. I don't understand the 115% and the tendency it will, generally, I mean, I understand it to me and that basically they would then have 30 days, you know, notice, tendency will, 30 days by either side to get out. But when I talked about it with John earlier, do you want to talk about the language that we had discussed for that? Well, we thought it would be better that if we had some sort of notice of termination, I mean, this is with landlords consent, but if there was a notice period that would allow an annual kind of notice so that there was a final period that notice so that if there was a horrible period that the tenant would give notice that they want to determinate the year in advance or the landlord would and that would allow the seasonality of the business to determine whether that continued. So I don't you know without talking to you guys it's probably something we ought to talk about. I haven't talked to them either, but you know, the holdover provisions are fairly standard in leases. This is not a fairly standard lease. I don't think there's any problem getting rid of it, to be honest with you, in particular, since it's so long term, holdover provisions tend to be more relevant in a two or three year lease than in a 20 year lease. So if it's just doesn't make any sense to you let's take it out. Didn't make a lot of sense to me but... Exged it out and we talked about determination. That was just me. It did make a lot of sense to me either. Actually we had a really good laugh when we tried to calculate out what a 115 percent was out of a. It was pretty funny. It was laughable. There was one last point that I don't know if you didn't want to talk about it or D&E and Gene wanted to talk about it and that was the least extension period. They had proposed ten years, it would be 2036, the town had proposed five years and I know I've heard from you but I hadn't really heard from Danny and Gina on that one. So. Do you have a Danny or Gina? Do you want to comment on 10 years? No, it seems reasonable to us. About the five years. Yeah, I like 10. But OK. Let's forget about the fact that within that period, you might actually own it, right? And the lease would disappear. But in addition, what in your mind would you visualize that might happen if the extension was five years? And then what do you think might happen that we're the town wouldn't want to extend that or create a new lease? And I guess what's your concern about that five year period? We have a lot of things to overcome publicly. I think everybody's aware of that. And 10 years down the road from now, I hope none of this. Well, it's really 15. Yeah. Right. Because it's 10 years till the expiration and another five. Yeah. Yesterday. Well, actually, right, the way it reeds right now, it's about six and a half years. Right. Yeah. 2021. Talking to Danny and Gina, we felt like maybe there should be some flexibility to not be forced to buy the option to stay in business or buy the property and understand business and maybe extend the lease a bit longer. It's important for us to put the money to the dogs. Not the land. I don't necessarily agree exactly what you said because the term of the lease still is through 2026. And so we're talking about five years from 26 to 31. Yeah. With the extension, which extension would go to 2031. So we're still in the first 10 years, the second 10 years are part of this lease and then 12 years from now if we don't change the lease there would be a decision do we buy the property or do we go in and negotiate a new lease then and so we ask for a liability to simply extend to 36 and we're saying 31. We're in additional five years or we asked for 10. You've come back to 5. I think 5 works, but it just kind of takes that 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20. Make sure it from just to clarify the way the language is now. That decision point to extend comes in 10 years. It's 20, 25 because the town's asking for a year in advance of the five years And so but the purchase option extends along with the lease option so I just wanted to put on the table so we got some feedback and go from there and We're gonna do a work session in a week. We'll be in good shape I just wanted to put other tables so we got some feedback and go from there and if we're going to do a work session and a week we'll be in good shape. Are you fine? Council you're fine? I'm good. I feel good. Really? I feel good. Okay. Anything else on the lease from Council? Any questions? Okay. Dady Gina, do you have some additional comments at this point? We have a lot of people here in the room tonight, not that I have to open for the public, but I will allow individuals to come up for about two minutes, three minutes to speak and then we'll move back on issues of the lease. Do I have anyone that wants to come forth? Come on up, Guy. Thank you, Martin. Greetings to the council. John, everybody ever seen you guys well? I haven't met these guys yet. It's nice to see you, Dan and Gene, and I have only talked to each other one time on the phone. My name is Guy Courtney. I was a general manager at Criplonit for the four years prior to these folks coming in. And I'm listening to this discussion this evening. I can find my remarks to these two minutes. Business is very difficult. It's extremely hard. And if these two came into town and said, we want to start a dog sledding business, and there wasn't a dog sledding business in operation already that has this history, and the history was created by one man in roughly 40 years, Dan McKeechin, and he's gone. He's out of the picture now. You would embrace them. You would shake their hands. What can we do to help? Going through the regulatory process is a necessary provision of government. And it's responsible of government to do that. But I would encourage the council to give them as much free reign as you possibly can. I don't know them. We've talked on the phone one time, Gina and I. Any change up there is a good change in what I've hear. I talked maybe once a week, once every other week. I hear from somebody who's currently employed at Criblinic Mushers or People on Staff up in the kitchen. And their heart is in the right place. They're doing the things that are necessary to make this business work and work effectively. And they have a heart for the dogs. And this is about the dogs. It's always been about the dogs. In my four years there was not a single negative article about until I left in the midst of negotiations that they were successful at and that I wasn't successful at, that negative article started appearing in lawsuit started flying and there is some residual impacts of Dan McKeechens' former responsibilities. So do what you can as a council or be encouraged to at least do what you can as a council to give them a very long leash and a lot of flexibility because this is a great business and I know that their hearts are for these animals and that's what matters here. Thank you for that specifically as it regards the receivership, I would urge this agreement for appointment of a receiver. Receiver has a firm custodial responsibility and we're talking about disaster type of consequences. The receiver is, I have read the recent iteration of the receiver agreement is to be met by Mr. Odie. Is that still the case, John? And I don't know how that was determined, but for those of you who don't know, Mr. Odie is a that still the case, John? And I don't know how that was determined, but for those of you who don't know, Mr. Odie is a personal accountant to Dan McKeechin. He's a business accountant to Dan McKeechin. He's a personal friend of Dan McKeechin's, and that should disqualify him as a receiver. Receiver should be an independent, person independent, consult at arm's length, end of story in the worst case scenario. He's not the guy to get the job done. I've also noticed that there's no, at least I don't have any knowledge that there is a governing document discussing the disposition of the dogs in the event of the failure of the company. And I have no reason to suspect that these two will not run the company successfully, but we have a bad snow year. And boy, does that turn things around? This is a business that operates mid-December to mid-April, maybe sort of kind of. There's three months of firm operations and the two weeks in December are. The business is what it amounts to. And if you don't have that, you're really fighting an uphill battle as we all know in this area. So I would be careful about disposition of dogs in that unlikely event of the disaster nuclear scenario that may or may not exist. So it's really good to see these two people here. It's really good for these animals that Danny and Gina have taken this on. And this is a huge project. This is, you can regulate to your heart's content. You can talk about the length of toenails on dogs. You can talk about if a dog gets a splinter and a plywood-based house. And they've got the intentions to do things up there that have not been done before. They're willing to invest the money. They're willing to put in the time. They're dedicated to this proposition. And I would like to see them succeed. So to the extent that getting out of the way helps them succeed, be encouraged to do so, and come back to them in a year. Say, you know, here's the list. These are the things we're looking for. These are the things that have concerned us in the past, and then let them go. And at the end of that year, they succeeded, or they haven't succeeded. Two years, three years. It takes time to do this, to place these dogs. There's dogs at the animal shelter who have been up for adoption for a long period of time, a year and a half perhaps. I visit those dogs, we see them advertised in the newspaper, it takes time to place these dogs, putting together that network of capable individuals and it's going to take that all over the country to come in and say we can do this and we can get this group together and we can get dogs placed properly. That takes time to do that. But they want to do that and you have that impetus of their desire and you've got exactly what you need for a successful business. And other than that, get a lot of sleep. We need you. Thanks, you guys. Appreciate it, everyone. Thank you, Guy. You made a few very, very good points. Thanks, Mark. It is you. The disposition and the issue around Mr. Cody. Other comments? Lee, come on up. I have some packages for everyone. Lee, come on up. I have some packages for everyone. Should I hand them to you? Yeah. And make sure it's on clerk that you bring extras. I'm sorry, my. Did town clerk give one? Oh, yes. Yeah. Thank you. There you go. All right. Last time, Jack. She's the time, Claire. I'd like to see one. Yeah, we'd like to see one. My name is Lee Vowel. I've been working with voices for the Problinic Dogs for seven years. And I'm here tonight to present information to you specifically about the tethering of sled dogs. And as you might know, many people are interested in the outcome of this meeting and about the regulations that will further enhance the lives of the sled dogs. So I'm going to be very specific about tethering and tethering rules. about the regulations that will further enhance the lives of the sled dogs. So I'm going to be very specific about tethering and tethering rules. You're probably aware of that PACFA, the regulating body that licenses sled dog operations in Colorado. Permits sled dog operators via a loophole, the option to tether sled dogs indefinitely. I know you've heard this before. But at the same time, the USDA, which is the parent company of Pacva, simultaneously states that tethering for long periods of time is cruel and inhumane. This gap in coverage for the dogs does exist between Pacva and the USDA. And I think it's our job. I know it's our jobs as citizens and community members to fill in this gap responsibly. And what happens to the dogs that don't run? What happens to the dogs that are up for adoption? And I saw dogs last July at Criblinic that don't run that were tethered in November. So we're not sure about some of these specifics and some of these gaps. We've been in touch with several people that have a vested interest in this outcome. They've all written letters that are in this packet, and I wanted to highlight a few that I thought were very important, and I've cut this down due to the two to three minute versus five minutes. Firstly, quote, I firmly believe that in order to maintain both mental and physical health, a tethered dog should be allowed the freedom to move and socialize outside of his or her circle every day. Seth Saxon, executive director of the Aspen Animal Shelter. Quote, I believe your beautiful town is ready for relief from the draining and relentless negative attention brought by Kerblinik over the decades. I further believe that requiring meaningful daily off-time tethers can bring you that relief by indicating your sincere wish to improve the doc's lives. Holly Terry, Vice President Colorado voters for animals. Quote, do the right thing, take the time to enhance their lives, they cannot do this themselves. David Sammy Samuels re-homed eight Krablinic sled dogs to Jackson Hole Wyoming. quote, the working dog laws, financial considerations, and Walt Disney type fantasies have been used to override the basic real emotional and physical needs of sled dogs. Deborah Blair, PhD, Eden Ethical Dogs sledding. Keeping a dog chained for hours, days, months, even years on end can cause immense psychological damage. Aub and Royal, Colorado State Director, the Humane Society of the United States. Quote, I'm writing on behalf of firm sanctuary and our 250,000 supporters. At the end of a tether, dogs who profit from extensive exercise and the ability to run at full throttle are unable to get the exercise they require. Bruce Friedrich, director of policy, farm sanctuary. Quote. I'm writing to express my desire to see the living conditions for the Criblinic Dodds improve. I think there have been many good changes over the last year, but there's still room for improvement. A major area that has always been a point of contention is the tithering of the dogs. Scott Dolganow, Aspen Animal Hospital, and Criblinic Veterinarian for more than 20 years. Quote, it is not there in their DNA to be confined, to be restricted. Their very nature is to roam, to move, to cover ground. The tension and stress that mounts from psychological and physical binding is torturous. It is inhumane to restrict sled dogs by chaining them for weeks on end, particularly because they are athletes. Colorado can no longer look the other way regarding these dogs. Financial gain and tourism cannot supersede health and welfare. Colorado's progressive regarding many issues this must be one of them. Officer Chris Broden, Loudon County Department of Animal Services. Quote, I'm writing on behalf of people for the ethical treatment of animals with more than 3 million members and supporters worldwide. To urge the members of the Snowmass Village Town Council to add language to the new Criblinic lease that bans the tethering of dogs. We know that's not going to happen, but I'll continue on. A simple way to dramatically improve the welfare of the more than 200 dogs who are chained from once at a time. Collino Brian, Senior Director of Communications, people for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Quote, as members of the town council, you have the power to affect meaningful and compassionate change for these dogs. The world is without question watching what happens here. And we are all hoping that the town council acts decisively, independently, and compassionately. Anti-chaining laws are an effect in almost half of the states in our country that the town council acts decisively, independently, and compassionately. Anti-chaining laws are an effect in almost half of the states in our country. And for a very good reason, because chaining is exceedingly cruel. Robbie Ruderman, founder and president of Eyes for Animals, formal wildlife rescuer. You mean? OK. OK. I just want to let you know it's going to be fine for me. Thank you. OK, so the last one more sentence, or I should believe. Yeah. You have the enviable position to make Criblinic the gold standard. Please unchain these dogs, give it a time frame. Please be sure that the individuals that represent the committee to be formed do not have a history of complacency about these dogs, nor attire to the I did a rod. Thank you. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at any time. Thank you, Lee. Can I address the PACFA? Yeah. The comments are made by the staff. Sure, Jeannie, you're more than welcome to. It's incorrect. And the way PACFA works is that there is a tethering waiver, not a loophole that we apply for, and along with that we are required to submit our Off-tether time in our exercise program, and it also has to be signed off by a vet. So it's not a loophole. It's a waiver that is monitored by them, and we do have to keep records of our off to the time, our exercise program and it does have to be monitored by a vet. So that is the way that the PACFA regulation works. This was brought up in the last meeting as well and voices was aware of the rules and regulations. Yeah and that second part came as a result of our work that people have to submit an off-season plan to PACFA. But PACFA has the tethering waiver and the loophole within the waiver is that dogs that don't run are not monitored. What about the way that is not true? No, that's not true. We have to submit an exercise program that has to be signed off by that. So we have to prove that that's what we're doing by submitting to PACFA our records that show that we are running them off time. What is the schedule? How many dogs are going if they didn't get off to other why? This was explained to the voices two months ago. And we thought we came up with a resolution and that you understood the rules. I understand rules, but if you can please put it in writing so that it can be enforced by the town that would be very much appreciated by the many people that are concerned about the off-tether time. Thank you. Thank you, Lee. Thank you. I'm going to ask our committee that will get appointed. How we get there is not clear yet, but I'm sure we will get there. We'll get there in the next two to three weeks. In one of the issues, I'm sure that we'll be discussed by the committee is working with you on the various standards and your best practices. And within that, there is issues around tethering. And I do appreciate everyone. Everyone has different thoughts and comments on this issue and it is a hot topic. So we'll do them forward to further dialogue. And is there any other else that wants to speak? Go ahead, John. I was just going to say, you know, I sent you all the PAPA regulations. Yes. In section 15K is the specific. So you can see for yourself what the result is here. Yes please come forward. We need your name for the record and why is he a beautiful little guy? He's a little guy. I'm Claudia Platinum on companion of Harvey, who used to be known as Comet when he was at care and he probably had a name before that. He was part of the contingent that was seized along with a famous dasher. Let me give you a picture of the condition he was in when he was seized. I don't have any treat for you. It's always a hope. Look at his shoes too. They could have this one. I just want to say I'm impressed with can have this one. I just want to say I'm impressed with the atmosphere of collaboration and commitment and engagement that I think is going on here and it's really positive. What I just want to do, I want to reinforce the decision to move away from the short-haired dogs and understand the role they play and why people have moved away from the classical huskies. I also have a husky and 175 of her in one place would be quite a handful. These dogs, you can see the athleticism and the submission, they're more submissive. And that leads to a lot of cowering, a lot of trauma, I think, for some of the dogs. But in any case, the point being he's freezing at under 35 degrees, he's shivering, and he's really happy to be in a house now and be, can't believe this luck. He's moved his bed up against the baseboard hot water heaters. He's dragged it right up there like a cat. So I just want to say I think it's a good decision. And I get why you moved away from them. I think the industry has moved away from Huskies. But I think for sitting, I just want to say that. But I wanted to talk about the consequences of changing these dogs. I understand that the dilemma also, that canaling them is not an option. There needs to be some balance. And I just think the town needs to be very careful in how it oversees this. This dog, his face was torn up. It wasn't from fighting. It wasn't from interactions with other dogs. I was given to understand by care in their vet that this was a result probably of tangling in the chain, if not at least from line, you know, the interaction between the chain and then also lying on these platforms. He got a skin infection and it may also have been from being in the sun. So there's a mixture, but that face you can see, there's, it's not just the chain, the metal of the chain, the cold metal of the chain. It's also being confined in a narrow space in what these dogs do with their minds during that time, which is chew, pace, lie around in their waist. This dog does not know that he should not walk through or sit in or lie down in his waist and he's working on that. But I've had him for seven months, care had him for seven before that. So it's been a process. Again, if you're moving toward adoptability, how do you want to kind of citizens do you want to create? He is, you can see, I wanted to show you, he's got quite a few injuries. We can't hear you unless you're on the microphone. Well, he's got quite a few injuries on his legs, having again, having to do with interaction, but with the chain is what I was told when I adopted him. He has two enlarged mammary glands that again are believed to be from the irritation of lying on the frozen Thanks good for the person again short chains restrict how they can What they can do and they tend to he's had too broken he had broken teeth with the nerve exposed Again from chewing and it's which is again a function of being tethered too long. So I just wanted to say that there is something physical at stake. You know, these dogs, it's not just, oh, you know, it's not fun for them to be tethered. So in the past, it's been dangerous. And I think it's related to how adoptable they are to like I said the dog waste his agility He's very unconfident on uneven ground So these things I think are something that needs to be considered and reinforced by the town so thanks Thank you very much Any other public comments I see one more hand back here other public comments I see one more hand back here. Hi, I'm Ricky Newman from Aspen. First of all, I want to thank this council for being open to and asking for better standards of living for the Crablinic sled dogs. I also want to thank Danny and Gina Phillips for the improvements that you've made so far. I'm here to support tonight's previous presentations that have cited scientific and fact-based information dealing with the physical, mental, and emotional harm caused to dogs who live on chains for the majority of their lives. I also support setting a time frame in which to achieve giving each dog a crabulinic much more daily time off chain to enjoy free exercise and free play with more human interaction. This is in order to give these dogs a full or more enriched normal life when not working. Another consequence of tethering is that dogs cannot move away from things that they might be frightened of, such as other dogs, people, wildlife, etc. This can lead to the development of aggression since the flight part of flight or fight has been removed from a dog as an option, leaving only fight. I have personally witnessed the fearful stance, the frustration, bewilderment, and sadness that former Kremlinic sled dogs exhibit during my ten years of volunteering at the Aspen Animal Shelter. I've learned how to help win back their trust with kind human touch, teach them how to play, and have taken them on walks. I also got very involved in the adventure, searching for and catching Dasher, one of the eight dogs confiscated from Crab Lunic in December 2013, when he ran away from his foster home six months later. All the former Crab Lunic sled dogs I have worked with had the same baseline behavior, just in differing degrees. They are distant, nervous, and anxious when approached even slowly by a human. Most won't make eye contact, and don't even know what to do with a ball or a dog toy. Several have difficulty walking in a straight line on leash, and tend to circle their human several times while on a walk Similar to what they did around their houses on their chains. I've seen the worn out teeth and a little sidelined on that Have a letter from Dr. Heather Carlton DVM at the Jackson animal hospital who has Jackson animal hospital who has taken care of three of the dogs and had to pull several teeth because they're worn down from chewing the chains and out of boredom and trying to get loose. And they've had abscesses as well as being worn down to the bone. I've also seen the sunburned frostbitten noses. Many are too timid to even accept a treat from a human hand. In my several months experience with Dasher after we caught him, he and I could end a two-hour visit with him enjoying hugs and petting. But then I would be greeted by him nervously running away from me a couple days later. I would then need to build up that trust all over again each visit. It takes quite a long time and lots of patience to try to socialize and change the behavior of dogs who have lived on the end of a chain their whole lives. But it is necessary in order to help them become adoptable. I feel this transition from working life to retirement in a family home could be much smoother and quicker if these dogs had more unchained time to just be normal happy dogs during their time at Crab Lunic, especially in the off season. The longer it takes to work through their neurosis later, the older they get and fewer people are apt to adopt an older dog. I'll finish with a quote from the Humane Society. A chained animal is caught in a vicious cycle, frustrated by long periods of boredom and social isolation. He becomes a neurotic shell of his former self, further deterring human interaction and kindness. In the end, the helpless dog can only suffer the frustration of watching the world go by in isolation. A cruel fate for what is by nature, a highly social animal. Any city, county, or state that vans this practice is a safer, more human community. Thank you. Thank you, Ricky. Any other comments? Okay, any other comments from council? Is this for approval this evening? Discussion. Discussion only and approval will come in a few weeks, correct? 16th. The 16th. Hopefully. Okay. Gina and Danny, do you have any additional comments? Okay, there's a little bit more work yet to be done to the lease and we need to hash out a few things and work session a week from Tuesday. Just to make sure my notes are for that upcoming work session, CPI or cost of time value of money, makeup of the oversight committee, how best practices are set and agreed to, and the whole over provision take it out when I was so. That's taken out. There's something else that needs to be in that discussion I hold on here let me check my notes I think you've got it all and John Wilkes makes sure we've got a couple more the qualifications I guess right the qualifications we and we I don't think we ever finalize the discussion on the voting that'll be in the work session. Okay, that is important. Yes. Okay. And as the review committee survives this now. Yeah. And the comment on desolution or disposition of the dogs of business goes belly up. Hopefully it doesn't. We heard that from guy we didn't hear. No, but is anyone else interested in that conversation? I guess we, yeah, I guess I would like to hear Gina and Danny's thoughts about that at some point. Maybe at the work session. Yeah. You won't be there, don't you? I think without a warranted at the work session, we've been on this topic for well over an hour. So let's give you some time to think about it. Yeah, let's wrap up and we're going to take a five minute break, ten minute break and then come back work session on that issue. Got it on the list now. Huh? Got it on that issue. I got a list now. I got it on the list. Okay. Okay. And Danny and Gina would be invited to the work session. Yeah. I'm supposed to leave in 430. Right. Yes. Do you think I did five? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Dave. EOTC. The history of EOTC. Let's move forward. Thank you, Council. We now should have received digitally or in hard top of the The Copy of the full packet for the UTC meaning on March 5th. And three of you are new to this or four of you. Three of you are new to this process. So what we wanted know, three of you are new to this process. So what we wanted to do is provide you with a little bit of background, what the EOTC is. And in a nutshell, that's basically when the half-cent sales and use tax was passed in Picking County to make appropriations from that fund. The fund that's balanced that remains after a contribution to the RTA or the Rowing for Transportation Authority. It takes the unanimous vote of all three jurisdictions. So that's probably one of the big things. This is your opportunity to at least talk about or look at any issues you might have with the items that are on the agenda for the UOTC Meaning that's coming up on Thursday. So I'm here to I'll assume you've read your packet. No, I have not read the packet Okay, how about the rest of you? Nope. Nope. I'm I reviewed it But I didn't make serious notes I haven't make serious notes. I haven't committed it all to memory, but I... Ha ha ha! I gotta say, I have to say. There you go. Oh, okay, I know the word in the past. Give me a minute. Give me a minute. I don't have it on my town council or town email. I'll tell an eyeludgesley. It is on eyeludgesley. Let me go. I'll tell an eyeludges thing. It is on eyeludges, let me go over. Okay, the packet basically has a couple of pieces. One is... It's not on my eyeludges, like... No, my neither. You know where I said to you. Which is an email from CrewGurse. I include. Are you sure it's on your eyeludges, like, my key? No. No, it's one on your eye-led statement. No. No it's not a mine either. How can that be? It's not there. You guys want to take a break? No we just took one. Oh it's right there. That's the history. No keep going down No, but it doesn't have all the discussion items other than what we're gonna talk about Okay It doesn't Okay, but you're okay, you have the EOTC actual gender you just have what Dave gave you I have what Dave gave me as back Okay, so we need to get the pack the packet got emailed out recently I just out this. Okay, I'll go look in for it. But anyway, let's get on to the conversation about the history. Okay. Well, back in 93 is when the electorate approved the expenditure of well, the taxation on the half-cent sales and use tax. It's funded a numerous amount of projects in the Rolling Fort Valley. It basically is the foundation for the funding for Raffta, both Old Raffta and New Raffta. It's helped create complete the four landing and the HOV Lane, well the dedicated bus lanes into Aspen to the roundabout at Castle Creek. It was supposedly on page 47 of your packet, what you see is the comprehensive valley transportation plan. Right. And this is exactly what the dollars from those taxing mechanisms were trying to achieve. It was very robust. It was very robust. It was very visionary and it was the rail option for the Highway 82 quarter was still under a lot of investigation and consideration. The quarter investment study was a massive document about mobility throughout the war in Fort Valley. It was being studied at the time and a rail was a major component of that. What came federally and in the industry later on was bus, BRT, which is bus rapid transit, basically in a nutshell, it's think rail but use of bus. And a lot of it is to build the platform for rail system, which involves getting easements and ride-aways and acquisition of properties for parking rides and that sort of thing. And by using buses a platform for that, you could incrementally develop some of these aspects. So this funding also pretty much built a BRT program and laid the foundation for it along the way. Probably a significant note was in 2009, there was a strategic retreat by the EOTC and 2008 was the beginning of the great recession and so funding became very constrained and the number of projects that were on the horizon for the EOTC created some concerns about what they could afford to do and what they couldn't. One of those big chunks was the no fair service between Aspen and Snowmass. Some people saw it as a very to help us through the great recession, to boost tourism and to hold on to tourism and make us more competitive. And some saw that, well that's basically like eating your seed corn to use a direct quote. You're burning your capital reserves by expanding supporting additional operating expenses. And many people thought that the dedication of a significant, the 81% of the half-cent sales tax to RAPDA as a portion of the three upper jurisdictions contributions to the regional transportation authority, Raffta. They thought that that was more than enough in operating subsidies and that the rest should be preserved for capital acquisition. At that time, obviously, the entrance to Aspen was still looked at as one of the key projects that this fund was supposed to subsidize. However, since to move forward on the entrance to Aspen project has been difficult. And one thing to keep in mind about it is that what you have is a record of decision by the Federal Highway Administration. That record of decision is talks about or looks at the preferred alternative being the cut and cover tunnel that goes over the Merrill property and makes a straight shot into main street aspen. That's what's approved by the Federal Highway Administration. There have been a lot of discussion about what they call the F's curves and there's three lanes and there's reversible two lanes. And there's all kinds of variations on that thing. One thing to keep in mind is you go back to the beginning of the Federal Highway process if you begin to look at that as the ultra preferred all Turn it up for the community which but you The environmental impact state analysis is going to take it years to complete if you start that over They've excuse me one second. Could you explain what a cut and cover tunnel is? Please cut and cover tunnel is, please? Cut and cover tunnel is the highway and mass transit alignment would come off the roundabout, go straight through that open parcel. And what you would do is you'd bury the highway underneath a landscape hill, if you will. So you'd still preserve the open space, appearance, but the main transportation system would be in. So I think as you look on page 44 and 45 of my memo. You see a lot of the significant accomplishments on page 44. You've done the re- you acquired the Denver Rio Grande right of way. You've put a mate trail system on there and you're rail banking it for a future transportation quarter. So you preserve that right of way in public in the public trust. You've created parking facilities at Breast Creek in 82. BRT now has created parking facilities and major transportation platforms along the valley, along what is noted in the Comprehensive Valley Transportation Plan. Old raft that doubled its service when this funding was passed and BRT is another lake that was noted in the Comprehensive Valley Transportation Plan. Old raft had doubled its service when this funding was passed. And BRT is another layer that's also subsidized by its separate tax that's overlaid a significant amount of valley transportation on top of that. Again, you've completed the work to get the four lane to the roundabout with a dedicated busway, the Moon Creek roundabout. You've also redid that the Moon Creek bridge, which was not an easy thing to get accomplished. If the regional transportation authority was approved, but bus rapid transit we already talked about that's been installed. Can you touch on no fare? Can I touch on no fare? How that operates, how the EOTC sees that and where it sits between capital and operations. Okay, and it is an item for future discussion. I didn't fit on this agenda because we thought we already had enough. No fare bus service. It started back in 1998 as an experiment or no 2008. I'm sorry. I've been around too long. It originally started looking at what Aspen was thinking, well what if we made it free from the intercept lot into Aspen and could we get more cars to stop at the intercept lot and ride a bus into town. Snowmass sort of gleamed on that idea and we thought it was great and so there was some push to say, well let's experiment, let's say, let's make the Upper Valley mobility free between Aspen and Snowmass and the intercept lot. They funded it incrementally. They would, you know, let's try it for the summer, well, let's try it for the winter, let's try it for the summer again. Let's look at spring, summer and fall. Let's just to the summer. Well, let's run for the winter. Let's run for the summer again. Let's look at spring, summer, and fall. Let's just go year round. So since about 2009, 10, it's pretty much been free year round or fair subsidized. Some people have a problem calling it free because it's not free. It costs somebody. What the EOTC is doing is subsidizing rafters lost fair revenue by making it free. So you're not paying for the entire full cost of the service. That is being funded by your taxes as part of the RTA. But what you are doing is making sure the rafters staying being kept whole by the fairs that it would have received Had there been a fair in place as opposed to no so we're funding we're funding their revenue loss, but not their cost Not their operating cost correct, right? So They are still so theoretically making a profit on The no fair lines because we're funding 100% of their revenue. They're not losing any revenue. They're not losing any revenue. Right. They have the same cost structure that they always had. They haven't lost any revenue. And theoretically there was some profit between their revenue, whatever it's called, if it's some profit between their revenue and their operating cost structure. That's what I'm trying to say. If fairs make up maybe about 33% of the cost of bus operation. That's the industry standard. That's even pretty good compared to some sectors. So profit is hard to- Well, so the difference between- No, the rest of it- What makes up the rest of their- How do they recover the rest of their cost if they only get 33% of it from fair revenue? Taxes. Taxes, okay. Pedral grants, more taxes, which is what that represents. Okay. Okay. Moving on. Do you want to go with the first? I just have a little bit of a question. Do you have any idea what the sort of percentage is of that of valid Fair subsidized aspect is in comparison to the rest of the fairs for all of Raffta Ooh I think Raffta's fair structure is somewhere two million two and a half million that's a guess of Educated guess off the top of my head. And what, and where it fought, what was it? 500,000 five percent. Yeah, we were five, so maybe like 20 percent or something. Yeah. Something like that. But I could be way off on the valley and BRT. It's been a long time since I've looked at it since BRT came on board. So. I don't have, we did not discuss that at our last board meeting in terms of dollars and cents. But I know was presented to the board of the strategic planning session. It is a specific line in their budget revenue side. That would be good homework to have that data before Thursday. I do know that raft is kind of going well, touching on the fair, no fair revenue. Obviously, through the economic downturn, it was in it, as routes were losing ridership across the board and the rafted system, the snowmast-assmen connection was actually growing and it has continued to grow somewhat even after those gains during that period. And there was a period of time that we had to pay, we had to subsidize the summer operation town's nomad so much. Two years we subsidized the summer operation in 13 and 14. Right. 2013. So fair revenue maybe for the whole system or in other words, somebody who wants to subsidize the whole system and I know we don't have the exact numbers, but maybe it's like $2.5 million. It could be. Well, Rafft's budget is somewhere around close to $30 million. Now, so you'd have to pull out the quarter aspects of it and facility stuff that's outside of the scope of the bus system. BRT is almost its standalone separate chunk under a separate federal grant program. And then you'd have to look at what was the old regional bus system and say that's 18 million, 12 million. And so I would guess, I might be really low at two. I think six is probably more. Could you have blanking ship to send us a note on that tomorrow? Okay. Upcoming Thursday, I just pulled the agenda. There's a couple of issues that are just make sure that you're up to speed on. And there's three, four requests for funding. Funding, yes. How much are we talking about? Well, the Ruby Park is they're going to open the bids somewhere later on in the week or early next week. So we're not going to know what that is going to be. Costs of construction has been escalating and catching a number of projects on the wares. That's not surprising. That could be an additional million dollars. That's just a guess. How much have we already appropriated for 3.9? 3.9? Yeah. Because it's got a match or something, right? Isn't it seven something is the protected? Seven point nine million is the total funding. They have grants of about 3.9 from EOTC, half million each from City of Aspen and Raffta. And where is the proposal for the balance? In fact, all of these, where is the sense where all those money's coming from? Is it coming from contingency or is it coming from lock boxes? Ruby Park has looked at as part of the entrance to Aspen and or the ETA. You're gonna hear that a lot. That's a very specific federal highway designation for the last piece of the highway system from the roundabout into Aspen or from buttermilk into Aspen. So it's a very specific thing. them from the roundabout into Aspen or from buttermilk into Aspen. So it's a very specific thing. That's where that funding would come from. Let's go, let me mention the four projects. So you get them and then you can think about that where it should come from. So you have the Ruby Bark project that probably is going to need some additional funding. Most likely it would come from the entrance to Aspen Reservation Reserved Fund. You have the basalt underpass funding requests connecting the BRT station there and connecting basalt on one side of the highway with the high school and the development that has happened across the highway. And what's the justification for that one? Pick and County is supporting that project. I want to say justification in terms of why is that needed? Safety. In the packet has pretty significant numbers of people pedestrian movement. You have a major parking ride for your BRT system. Which intersection is it? It's right there. Main one in the salt. The main light in the salt. The main light in the salt. Where the BRT and the salt sites are. Were you turning go to the left? The left. Tires turn right. The left goes into the parking ride. The right goes into the kind of goes to. Okay. Canstation. Okay. Got it. Yes. Thank you. That is about 750,000. It's a project that's in the four million range. Four and a half million range. I know I come back and ask you why are we funding that but that's another question. The other project is Grand River Avenue Bridge. Grand River, Grand Avenue Bridge in Glenwood Springs. It's $110 million project. Seedot and Glenwood and Garfield County have all made numerous contributions to that. Eagle County has even made a contribution to the Grand Avenue Bridge. C.D. is asking for EOTC to support the transit mitigation measures. Raffta has to divert through the subdivision on the back way out of Target and I don't know what that street is. Yeah, the Meadows shopping plaza. I know what you're talking about. Raffta will have to travel through that portion as well as a lot of highway 82 traffic when the bridge is closed for about three months in the spring and three months in the fall when they're trying to set the new bridge. And how much are they asking? And they're asking for 335,000. The last project is the buttermilk parking lot. It's been, it's now in the possession of Pickin County. They're working with the Aspen's Key Company to complete that last portion. That's at the back of the lot. And Pickin County is asking for half the cost that it will share with Aspen's ski company $280,000 for that completion of that parking. What is the completion? I mean, those aren't, they're not paved. So, what are they completed? They are correcting the drainage. The front portion has been completed. It was completed. You made a contribution to that back in 2008, as part of the bus lane project from buttermilk into the roundabout. And the lot tangent to the bus stop right there at buttermilk was paved. Now that whole upper section lot has been redeveloped bus lanes that will make it function better for the X games and et cetera, et cetera. All that's been redesigned in what's going on in the buttermilk base area. Can you walk us through what the consideration process looks like Thursday? There's presentations. There's actually a vote. But then the votes need to come back and be acted on officially back at this meeting. Correct. At the EOTC meeting, to vote your collective will on this thing and not, you know, not trying to make everybody happy and then come back here and then change your vote. Yeah, we've done that. That's a good job. That's looked at as very bad. But if you don't have enough information or whatever you can table, you can ask it to come back. You can try and schedule another EOTC meeting. But I strongly encourage you that when you listen to the materials and review what's being presented, that you land on your decision and that's what you work with. And if you're not going to support something that make it clear at that meeting, so it doesn't move on. And can you tell me where is all this money coming from? We talked about number one, which is Ruby Park. The basalt underpass probably, Pick and County would be looking for contributions from they would use up what's left of the third fund. Yeah. It was a three million loan from the entrance to Aspen and from the snowmast fund. And there's about 800,000 there. So they would be looking for well, that would either deplete it or they'd be looking for additional funding there. The Grand Avenue Bridge, that would be a straight off the top. Again, taking out of probably both funds, I wouldn't suggest 50-50. Because you're- What are the funds, Dave? We just say both funds. It's lock boxes. There's what we're called lock boxes are now funds. It's unfortunate you haven't had a chance to look at this. Basically, there was in the bonding measure that was approved in 2000 for about $10 million in potential bonds. Now that's lapsed, it would not be looked at as viable today. But the town was looking at redevelopment of the mall area, was looking at a transportation station for the regional system in the main mall area. There was a bonding authority for like $7.5 million project there. Through the years, no mess has said, well, if you want us to participate in play, we would like to make sure that this isn't all just for the entrance to Aspen. We need to see mass transit improvements in our community to digress just a moment. The reason that doesn't talk about the road system here in your division statement is that brush Creek Road is another can major arterial for a major ski area portal. And we want to make sure that that's included in this look of how we manage and protect the quality of life and the ambiance of more road ways than just highway 82. So that said, a reservation has always kind of been made for seven minutes, started at 7 million for a project in snowmass. That fund, however, has been kept. That fund is not growing with inflation. It's actually losing value as it goes along. On the other side of the equation, when we talked about no fair service, Aspen was very concerned that they have a war chest to be able to move forward if the entrance to Aspen became a viable project. So what they were saying at that time was of the bond double revenues of the EOTC, basically everything after just your core cost of collection and some dedicated programs. Two-thirds of that we want to reserve for the entrance to Aspen. One-third you can have if you want to do special projects. And at the time in 2009 and 10, the no-fair service was coming out of that one third piece. But you could never get quite enough money out of that chunk to fully support the no fair service, as well as have any other kind of major project like the AAPC Aspen Airport, this center's bridge, pedestrian bridge, bridge, which was about 3.5 million. Cost over 1, is it 5.4, wasn't it? In the end, yeah, I think. But those were the two key funds, and then there was a, well, let's borrow some money from these two funds to create $3 million fund from which Pick and County them was picking some key projects that they wanted to see move forward. So Pick and County doesn't have any capital fund. So their pickings comes from this other little. So when is Pick and County going to pay back these two funds that they've been stealing money from? Well, I wouldn't put it that way, but in the past. Well, if they're not paying it back, I'd say put it that way, but in the past. Well, if they're not paying it back, I'll say the plan was to have a good borrowing money. So I've asked that question. I believe borrowing money. I'd like to say what their response is, because I've asked a similar question and a similar manner. When you... Is that... Aspen's got a pot, Snowmass Village's got a pot, Pick and carry does not have a pot. They would like some opportunity to do projects. They support. And this is a way that they put forward to have projects. They support. Now I would say when you look at the budget, there are two budget proposals. One was the adopted budget that you had proved in last year. There's a new one that includes all the projects that we just covered. Snowmass' fund is fully repaid by 2019 with the projects that we just have reviewed if they were all included in the fund. So revenues are repaying some of the funds that are being diverted for. So there is, I mean, I was being sarcastic, but there is a mechanism, well I don't know who's out there. There is a mechanism for repentishing those other facts. Well, kind of, but Gail, you hear that grandiose plan and now we've got the Salt, Grey Davinoo and Buttermilk, which are brand new that want to use more money coming. Again, as I said, in the second budget element in the EOTC packet, you'll see that those projects are in there and their payments are made. Uh-huh. And that assumes no inflation and what have you on those projects, which we've consistently seen a good 20 percent on each one of them. The second part of it is, and this has always troubled me. The snowmass, I'll call it the lockbox because that's how we kind of set up and we changed the term to a fund. It's capped. It doesn't enjoy any inflationary factors that goes into a different part. And I still can't get my arms around how that decision was made that we would never enjoy the improvements in the economic climate into our fund. Do you remember that, Dave? improvements in the economic climate into our fund. Do you remember that, Dave? I think you went back to the bonding question that that was the project that identified for SNOMAS. Here's the money you have, and it's been talked about that way since then. I don't, I agree with you that over time, eventually we would have some other project that we may be interested in. And our project is probably just growing, depending on how big you want to make it, you know, it could eat up 7 million, probably no problem. Because you're constructing it right in the core of your community. That's one of my big concerns on, I just share with you and it continues to kind of grade at me at times, is we all know that project is sorely needed and I'm sure that we're going to hear about that project very,marked from snowmass and the dollar amount does not grow with the inflation, we are town, are the ones that are going to have to go out for additional bonds to support it because where I thought the money might come from is withering away, either in terms of new projects or it's not growing and I think we have to be very clear you know we haven't asked for any money out of out of the OTC we asked for that summer best the bus service and you know we all know what happened we wound up paying the summer for two two seasons which was a sore point with many council people as other people in town as our city staff had to really cut back and expense control and what have you on and on and on but we made it through it. So there's part of this Hoey OTC. I hope this does not be a much. Seems not equitable times. I think that would be, you're going to have a couple of conversations. You have the revised financial policy language, which is trying to, what do we call these funds and what are these funds eligible for? As the policy was originally written, take the buttermilk, I mean the basalt pedestrian crossing as an example. It might be considered outside of the scope of the language. So there's going to be a discussion about how these things are talked about in the context of, how do we, if it improves the transportation system, could it be eligible so that we could flex entrance to Aspen funding for this? At that time, I would suggest that you raise the issue. Not that you want to bog down, it would have obviously be begged to put on a later discussion, but it would all crack open the door if you all agree that that is something that you would like to be have looked at. That it's been a static thing is not adjusting for inflation and thereby it's value is diminishing as a funding source for a major project. Okay. Here's the other part that on this funding request is Grand Avenue Bridge. That's a, that's a CEDA. I mean, we all pay money as taxpayers into the state of Colorado for transportation and for road improvements. So I almost feel at times and we're being asked to get into double taxation. The other part is some of us happen to know what the fun balance is at Garfield County. So why help me understand why this request is coming to Pickin County when there's adequate dollars to more than even pay for this project excluding C dot out of Garfield That's a question you should ask the presenter at the time I will I don't necessarily disagree with you unless you wanted to be As a gesture of good faith or something. I don't know. But Carfield County, yes, does have robust reserves. Yes. Welcome. Welcome to the other council because I think it's that important. But I heard it on just to stand as for a second or two just for fun. Sure. And you can say it's not fun and I'm like a home so forget it. I had heard a pretty good radio program where they were talking about how this notion of having C.DOT asked the local municipalities is very much a new endeavor and it's a reaction So, the answer to the question is, the answer to the question is, the answer to the question is, the answer to the question is, the answer to the question is, the answer to the question is, the answer to the question is, the answer to the question is, the answer to the question is, the answer to the question is, the answer to the question is, the answer to the question is, the answer to the question is as much money to the state, to the state saying, okay, well, we have this new circumstance. So we're going to go out to all the local municipalities and basically see if we can fund our project that would have been. Yeah, let me just explain that. The Highway Users Trust Fund is funded by gasoline tax, and that's the federal transportation funding mechanism. It's been a flat rate of 18 cents per gallon since it was adopted, I believe, in 1998. So you have a revenue stream that's been capped, not adjusting for inflation and technological advances as well as economic downturn have flattened if not started to decline that sales tax revenues meanwhile your expenditures for projects any construction project you look at is probably almost double what it was back in 1998. So you have this going on on the federal level. That's also true on the gas tax that you have within the state. It has been frozen since it was adopted and I forget when that was so I don't even venture a gas. But it has been frozen as well. So the cost of CIDOT's ability to maintain what it has to maintain today. They've been talking about this for at least since MacIarland was on, was your Transportation Commission representative for the Intermountain Region. That goes back about five years. They've been talking about this gap that's been looming on the horizon for a long time now. And so that's the disparity. Seedot has enough funding to maintain what it has to do, maintain today, but you start talking about adding capacity or major reconstruction projects or bridge alignments. The dollars aren't there in C-DOTs, part of money. And so yes, partnering with either private sector to build toll roads or looking to jurisdictions to contribute as partners in major capital projects is what Seedot is moving forward with. And the last go around in the last couple of years, they tried to stream Seedot wouldn't let you expand any funds for a project until you had all the money in one place at one time. So it had huge reserves sitting around. Well they said it will be a better business model. We'll use the money as we have it for the projects that we know. But that has kind of come to the end over the last two years. And so that kind of windfall of better money management has run its course and they're now pretty getting close to flush. Okay. Do you have some more fun for the evening? No, that's safe. I've worn myself out. Okay. How about anybody on any other questions? Well, I just want to make sure that I understand everything. Sure. It will look good. I mean, that's not bad for no-versity. It's not an understatement. But one of the things when I had read through it before the meeting was my question. So now they've changed the lock box names to these funds so that it includes the greater snowmass area, the greater aspen area. So the whole point is what you were saying so that you could look at these projects maybe in basalt or grand junction that would be affecting maybe workers coming this way, whatever it is, and that includes that area. If I was to get universal, I would say go back to that image of the comprehensive valley plan and all that stuff on that plan what might be what you would look at as the greater area if you really took it you know to fully encompass everything. The change circumstance in that time is now Rathda's its own independent entity where at one time it was the Picking County bus system if you will and emerged with Rhafta's bus system that provided the skier contract that's what gave them the capital reserves they needed to build the fleet up and So for a while it was picking counties by system. So then the change in the name and the whole idea of making it the greater area is basically for what you were just saying like to encompass the whole comprehensive plan right which it didn't really before because it was specific to snowmats or specific to Asman because that's the way the tax tax dollars came in. That was kind of the way. Yeah, the tax of the half-side sales and use tax is a pick and county tax. So the big players were Asman, Snowmass, and pick and county, but pick and county has interest in outside of basalt and other. So from a taxpayer perspective, the tax dollars are still collected those tax dollars are not collected down in Eagle County or Garfield County. So when you start using taxpayer dollars to go above and beyond to this grandiose thing should we not ask them to likewise tax their communities. But that's a different, that whole different kind. So that's a rub within the community here when they hear about these projects that are funded out of the dollars that we pay into, you and I pay into the PICC and County tax. And the used tax would be goods and materials that are brought into the community are purchased for construction purposes. That fund that's all within the EOTC purview to decide how to dispense with those funds. But if you apply them somewhere else while touching on what Mark is alluding to. Okay, that was my main question. In the next part, if we're going, and I know I'm getting very negative on this issue, is if and when we do our transit center here, it's no mass village. Has there been any conversation amongst your peers Dave or maybe you have had this conversation Clint with if we're going to work on a project that is at Garfield County. Have we heard that they're very interested in helping us build a transit center here? No. Okay. Thank you. Did out. I don't want to transit. Quick pro quo here. Well thank you, Council. I'm sorry you didn't get those. I did check to make sure your names were on the original email but I've got this packet that was in our packet but I didn't get well I mean these packet so we'll see about getting okay they've just as an FYI I'm not going to be in town on Thursday so I won't be able to attend that meeting who will be going to EOTC okay so we will have four there okay perfect yeah Yeah, just in terms of the IGA agreement that we've signed is as we get into these wonderful interesting topics, they will be asking for each municipality to vote on these projects at the meeting. Yes. And what we might choose to do is defer and bring it back here so we can hand through the conversation because there's nothing worse and we did it at the last council. We agreed to something that one of those EOTCs and got back here and changed their mind. It didn't play well in Dodge. No, it does. So when do we have to decide that? That comes back. My recommendation to you, if you don't feel like you have a strong support for something verbalize that at the meeting and in the vote if you want more time to think about it then ask them to table it. Yeah we'll table it. Because rather than vote affirmative and then come back here and back away from it, I think if you had a censure split, then that's what I would say. And you do split or just need more information. Or then have them come to you and bring a full presentation and repeat, you know, or whatever, give you more justification so that you can make it a more informed decision. Did I read somewhere in the in the history that was in the our our council packet that it takes a unanimous vote of all the municipalities? It takes. Yeah. For unanimous each one? It's just all three have to agree. And that's for any funding? That's for any funding of the EOTC funds. And the three jurisdictions have to be unanimous. Thank you. Thank you. Well, thank you, Council. Good afternoon. Okay, communities, oh, clamped the goals. If you start with you, Madam Mayor, then that's Kelly to go next. Yeah, I was going to say, let's get Kelly up here. She's tired. She wants to go home. See that baby. Oh, pretty. Here we go. Welcome, Kelly. Good to see you. We'll be talking about the community survey this evening. And this is first draft. You ready, Ro? Yes, let me just get logged into our survey instrument here. Just a minute, brief second. I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it. Friday. Okay, Friday. Did you see? I have Ronda. Let me know when you're ready. Okay. Not on my counting wheels. Nope. Yeah, if you could, that'd be good. All right. Okay, Kelly. Let's go. Great. Well, thank you for your time. So, first off, I just wanted to provide a bit of background. This is the draft of the 2015 Community Survey. The last one was administered in 2013. And during that time, there was a much wider discussion about our long-term survey program here with the town and what our goals and objectives were and then how over the long-term this would be both funded and planned and administered here. What was approved at the time was sort of a hybrid program where we relied both on internal capacity and the outside expertise of a consultant RRC and associates to design and minister and then analyze community survey. So the previous survey at 2013 had been done in 2007. So in 2013 we had about six years worth of surveying to make up for. That resulted in a survey that I would consider and the major point of feedback I received from the community is it was a very long survey. It took way too long to complete. And so here in 2015 what we're doing is we're building off the successes of 2013, but also trying to pair it down and come to terms with more of a survey template that can serve us year to year with a few tweaks of course course, to bring to light some of those high impact projects or priorities that the council at the time might want input on. But overall, we're looking to pare it down significantly because first off, we want this to be user friendly, but second off, a short, efficient survey can really up our response rate. We had a lot of drop-offs in 2013. So just a quick review of the goals, but these are included in the packet, so I don't want to belabor these. And what we're proposing as a timeline for this year is to really get this going now so that we can have this administered and analyzed as we prepare for our budget cycle. So we have yet another community input to bring into the budget cycle as we determine priorities and budget allocation. So are there any questions on the survey goals background or the timing? Yes. I just had a quick question. How many people did the survey in 2013? How many people did the survey? 2013 we had about 1,000 respondents. That was our goal to double the response rate over 2007, which received about 475 responses. So we're getting better and better. Part of the success I think of 2013 was it was administered. Primarily is an online survey with paper copies upon request, but being able to build our list over the long term and collect responses online made it I think a lot easier for people. And is the survey set so that I can't remember if it was a survey or something else that I did? That if you start it and then you need to come back and finish it, is it still there? Or you have to start all over from the beginning? There is an option to save and return later, but some people experienced a technical issue where since there was a security concern of the council, so we wanted it to be very secure. It was sent out via email invite only, which means everyone who took it had a unique link sent to that email address. So there could be an issue, say, if you started the survey and then your spouse who's the same computer tried to get back in or you know there could be some issues there but those were related to security and we are I think by making it shorter we can alleviate some of those challenges. That's what I remember and I feel like I started it and then I came back to finish it and then I had to start over again or something. Yeah the last survey took about I heard as much as 35 minutes to complete and that's just not fair to the community. So we want to make it, probably cut that in half at least. You know, Kelly, as I went through this survey and I applaud for the brevity of this one, it appeared to be to be more aimed toward town departments and town projects, then what the community might consider as top issues we need to tackle. And survey to try to figure out as we set timelines and priorities on our goal statements, if we, if these are articulated in the community survey and I didn't see a lot of carry over between the two and maybe I just this represent what I read and worked on last night on both of these. Let me try to answer that question for you. I think in 2013 we had a lot of specifics about certain projects that really rose to the top for the council at the time. So we saw a lot of very specific questions about the entryway and other specific projects. In this year's survey what we've attempted to do and this could be an approach that you agree with or one we might want to revisit but what we've attempted to do is sort of front load the survey with those 5,000 foot level questions about are we getting better as a community? How do you feel about our direction? What are sort of those overall levels of satisfaction with quality of service, value of services for your tax dollars, feeling of safety, quality of life, and then when we get into council goals and priorities, that question for as it sits in your packet is sort of a prioritization of some of the items and these were stolen directly from your draft goal statement. So I know it's a bit out of order now that I've jumped in front of Clint here, but that question for where we're asking people to prioritize what do you feel should be the three biggest areas of priority from your town leaders. And I will definitely go in and word smith those because it's been a recommendation from RRC that having consistent ways to ask those questions is really, really important. And then also to randomize those each time the survey is loaded so that it doesn't look like they've been put in a strategic order. So those are two things we'll definitely look at. But those were my attempt to borrow directly from the goal document and strategic plan that you have a draft before you during this. Well, for example, adding more employee housing, I didn't think that that was our goal. I thought we were going to look at more multi-generational type issue. So I tried to look for that one. Okay. And then there we have this was the pragmatic examination of preserving. So then I said okay. I want to see if our town agrees with us and whether that any of these are important because the town says no. Heck with that little exercise. I didn't. On the strategic plan are these goals? Yeah. Yeah. So at our work session undertake a pragmatic examination preserving and sustaining the town's iconic treasures. Maybe our town doesn't feel that we have any iconic treasures. Another one that I thought about after our work session was there was statements made about we don't want any stoplights in this town. Well, we didn't test it. We didn't go back and ask, we haven't asked the town since 2004. Do you want a stoplight or do you want some type of traffic controlling devices? And the other part was we didn't want a sidewalks. We haven't asked the community those questions. And I don't know how you word those questions in your section four, but that was just some comments. We're different questions. Yeah, there's a few different ways to do that. And hopefully when it's something that the council or staff is in the process of exploring, you know, it's sometimes best in these surveys to be sort of solution agnostic. So if you're asking about traffic calming solutions, you might say which of the following traffic calming solutions that have been or could be explored by the town would you be comfortable with or would you accept in your community traffic lights, stop signs, you know, check all all that apply so that type of question I think would be a little more illustrative than simply asking a yes or no so we could take a look at that the iconic treasures we could ask the type of question of do you feel that the following are important and you could rate them on a scale one to five not at all important to extremely important so I could rate them on a scale, one to five, not at all, important to extremely important. So I think that would be a great one to keep in there. But in terms of the prioritization, I think the logic there in creating that question was you have a very, very long list of goals and objectives and of course, while we would all hope that in two years time or three years time that they could all get accomplished, that might be indicative to see what the community feels are the ones that rise to the top. So just as we're talking about this, we all know that the roundabout is the hot topic in town. I appreciated the fact that it wasn't on the community survey. But then I then re-questioned myself and said, okay, I would probably figure out a way, should we even, by then the decision may be made. Well, that's the other thing. Yeah. I mean, that's what I thought by then the decision's made. Yeah. Well, but you could also, I mean, I think that the traffic calming question really covers that as an option. Yeah, it's difficult because I think open-ended comments are a great way to allow people to speak their mind when it's not necessarily something directly designed into the survey. So one option that we explored in designing this is, hey, we would likely get a lot of roundabout type comments in that prioritization section. So we could do everything like to the level of if they check the box that says, I'm concerned about or I think traffic calming and flow of traffic should be one of the top priorities. If they click that box, they could be prompted to a follow-up question that says which of the following traffic calming solutions would you be okay with? Do you have any comments or feedback on specifics that you might want to ask the time? So we can even get into that level of specificity, but what I like to caution is there's always that topic of the day for sure. You'll look at 2013 and the village market. Don't get rid of the village market. It was right on the heels of that announcement and that was all over the 2013 survey. But again, it was the next carly something that the council had, you know, the priority, you know, to undertake at that time. So I definitely want to strike a great balance of looking high level and something that we could have a year to year but also get into a level of specificity that's actually a tool that you can use. So it's definitely striking a balance and I think we can get there. And I might, I mean this is a perception survey. So you're not, if you get two detailed and some of these questions like round about versus stop light versus whatever. And I think that, what Kelly put forward is a great idea. I think we gotta be very careful that we're asking people what they think how we're doing. And we wanna make sure if there's some area that's identified that we're not doing well, we can go and solve that. So traffic congestion or whatever are issues, but you can run a danger of asking people about mom and apple pie. Do you want, we took out questions. Do you want these five items? Because I can assure you, whenever item you put up there, people are going to say, yeah, we want them. When you ask, are you willing to pay for them, those kind of things get different. And unless we're willing to put all those kind of qualifiers in there, it gets to be, it's an opportunity for feedback for you all, rather than an opportunity for you to guys set the direction. In my not-so-humble opinion on this one, that's why you guys are elected is to help set that direction. And then this helps you get the feedback on the direction you're setting versus using to survey to set the direction and then looping back that. Well, I think the whole issue, the way the Kelly approach to traffic coming is perfect. Because it's a prioritization you guys can use like all of them. That makes a lot of sense because that'll give us assistance going into the future of the way she's approached it and what the perception of the community is. And you know the number one's going to come back stop signs because that's the easiest. That's I mean, I don't know about that. I don't know. I'll bet you a dollar today. I'm not sure if I don't know if I'd go there. We'll see. I believe it's designed so a mammoth trunk is holding. There he is. I think Mr. Trance, you're right. Yeah. I would just urge you to be more than careful, extremely careful that whatever you're going to include in your survey regarding traffic is not used in evidence in any ongoing application because it's not procured in the proper method and cannot be considered by you as you deliberate in your quasi judicial function on review applications. And I would leave it at that. Thank you, Mr. President. Well, I already...well... But it had been to your point. I mean, I'm going to use owl creek and brush creek. Yeah. That's an upcoming issue. There's been, there's been, I've seen the designs, I've seen the public participation that have been done about size around about stop signs and a variety of options, which you're asking for is, I mean, at that point, it was under the assumption that, that likes were not an acceptable means or solution for traffic control. That's in it that's you can read it in a variety of different documents and you're just trying to double check to see if that stands. I want to see where the community is on that issue because it's historic. That's that's very clear when you refer to a public project that you would get input when you're reviewing and when you refer to the route about we're not clear which one but I was talking about this would done here quite frankly. That's what I thought. Yeah, you got that right. And I'm going to urge caution again that you be beyond extremely careful about this because it only takes One comment during the review process will survey says and it's it's We probably won't have the results by the time we make that decision. I would be I would up my bet a Thousand times over a cleanse that you will have the results prior to getting to the completion of the review that's pending in front of you at friends. Okay. Remember you're having a council hasn't discussed yet. Yeah, but we're going to move fast. I know Bob, I heard your question earlier tonight. Yes, you did. Mark on your housing. Yes. I had a few comments. Are you referring to the housing section that was question number 46? Okay. Yes. It's my understanding that there was or has been some conversation at the planning commission about the people having the opportunity to convert their own homes into employee units for a period of time. You know what I'm talking about? Yes, it's a straight-wing unit and there's a workshop about that maybe a month ago or so. Okay. Is that I didn't see that in here. Is that off consideration or should that even go in here? No, I mean it's it's there's been a workshop. I think there's been discussion and I'm I'm 99.5% sure the planning department right now is drawing up the oh Never mind considering will go through the process, but we didn't put it on here for that shortness issue And it seems to already be an active project in the priority of community development. Oh, number 13 on public works. Yes. Did we ask a question about the quality of the snow removal, street removal for snow? It's my question too. We have overall street maintenance. Previously that was separated into winter versus summer we can solidate it consolidate it just as an overall quality of street maintenance but if it's some if you snow plowing we can add a line snow plowing exactly that's very I would like a line I would to deal didn't even cost your dollar. Anything else? I had some questions. Go for it. I'm trying to find them. Well, I'm just trying to find them in the thing. But number 29, I'm trying it. This thing kind of moves really slow. Number 29, which is what resources do you currently use to access information about events and activities in snowmass? How come social media isn't one of the options? That should definitely be one of the options. That was great catch. The catch. Thank you. Is my failure as a professional community? I mean, no. No. No. No. I just, I just know I don't know I didn't know if you had a specific reason for not. Who's all the data for BarRC about how you know transact sales on social media? That was my oversight. So that was my first one. My second one, I'm sorry this thing is so delayed. Okay, number 38. It says, please rank the importance of the following trail, trail system enhancements to you and your household. So the first to say paved trail enhancements, natural service trail enhancements. So is everything on that list an enhancement? I guess I'm just like, the question seems kind of confusing to me, and maybe it's just me, but I guess are all those things enhancements, like the signage maps, directions, availability of trails? I just, I don't know. Yes. So, the paved trail versus natural surface trail enhancements, those are intended to, they were a bit confusing in their wording in 2013. We said beginner trails and pedestrian trails. And you know, what does that mean? We sort of got lost in our own nomenclature. So this was an effort to distinguish between our is the quality and quantity of our natural surface trails adequate is the quantity and quality of our paved trail enhancements adequate. Are these things we want to focus on with limited resources? So I think the qualifier, the please rank the importance of the following system enhancements kind of covers all of them. But if you feel it's confusing, I can definitely take a look at it. I guess I just, I mean, I don't know. Does anyone else think it's confusing? I just didn't really understand completely what it was asking. I mean, I know it's saying ranked the importance of those enhancements. I don't know. The reason for that is you look at a department or division we've got limited resources, limited staff and they really want to know on this list. These are sort of the list of things we've heard out there in terms of what the community might want or need. Help us see what brought us to the table. We do something. We've got 100 grand going to trade-als. Would we spend it on a mountain bike trail someplace? Or would we spend it on a trail or on the golf course? That's how I would try to use this information. And the answer is going to be come back to some 50, 50 or 80, 20 split. It's not. Absolutely. But are we trying to get more bang for the buck? Because it's softer, more bang for the buck. We know it is a shorter segment, but more people use as a hard surface trail. That's what we're trying to achieve. But if the question doesn't make sense to you, that's the kind of feedback we need to say. No, we don't. Put it It's just when I first read it, I guess I was kind of confused. The enhancement, when I first read it, it made me think that some of these enhancements have already been in place, and it's how do I feel about them? But then when Kelly explains it, it's more of like, if you had to rank these enhancements, what would they be? Sure, if you said, please rank the importance of potential trail system enhancements. Yeah, I think I just, I don't, maybe I'm the only person that read it that way. Well, I had problems with, I agree with the list, because paved trail enhancements, well, what are you going to do? Is that mean you're going to put an overlay on it, or you're going to put signing down it, or what do you, you know, or just more paved trail? Okay. Could be any of the above. We'm going to put words in their mouth, they'd say, hey, let's go again, or parks and rec, let's go put some mostly tourism, let's go put them money in mountain bike trails, because that's an opportunity for summer activities to bring people here. They have a paved trail system in town, and it's probably less so that. But I'm trying to find out for. We need to take care of what we've got. Well, just to stay on that for only a second or two is I know we're talking about the survey because as you said it was a beginner versus expert trails was a lot of discussion and it's been brought up by ski coast mountain managers and I thought tourism also that the thing that we are lacking more than anything are beginner trail systems. Beginner, a are beginner trail systems. Bigginner, a natural service trail systems, absolutely. But that's why we're trying to get into that level of detail. We're saying natural service versus asphalt. And I think to your point, I mean, if we wanted to say, hey, we need to maintain what we got versus building more, that's a fair kind of, I mean, that's a policy question on your guys' part. When we're, I mean, if we come back and say, if you want to spend X amount of dollars on, on building new trail, I think that you'd be very fair to you to come back to say, let's fix the stuff we got. Yeah. The stuff that we have is in this repair. Right. And so that's when you guys say this is not the right priority. Well, I mean, if that question makes sense to everyone else, then just leave it. But that was just my initial thing. It was kind of confusing. It could be some of the verbiage can be reworked. And I think in a few other questions, we have a qualifier such as in some of the trails enforcement issues. We work with such and such partners to enforce XYZ. We could have a similar qualifier here. So that's in the CFX. Okay. Yeah, and just one other point is I think it's important to note how none of these questions live in a vacuum. You know, we're looking at the survey responses in totality and we're doing some cross-tabulation. So if we want to know how overall do people feel about trails in the context of community walkability? We can look at their answer to question five on the overall priorities versus question 38 and see how they match up. So these definitely don't live in a vacuum. So we're kind of looking at the flow and suite of questions as a whole. Okay. So my next question is on number 44 when it says how would you rate town communications? So the third one down says tools available to communicate with town leaders. Like I don't really know what that means. I don't I don't know what the tools are. I don't know. I just... I've very just said a ability to communicate with town leaders. Yeah, I mean, it's just like, it's tools. I don't know. It just sounded funny. Well, let's get to know this is the exact feeling. Funny to me. We've looked at this too much. We need... Right, no. Well, so that was,. You guys know that you're either in the supermarket enough or that the website works. But as long as we're not looking for that specificity, and you know that people think you're, that they can get a hold of you, that's what you're really looking for. I don't know. I miss people's ability to communicate with me if I could. So, but as part of that, as part of that, I kind of did what Mark did, which was I looked at the goals that we had talked about. And so one of the things I thought under town communication, if you could put something, one of the things we talked about was this idea of making ourselves more available, maybe having coffee hours or whatever it is. The question is, if there were open forms or coffee hours, would you come? I don't know, I'm not saying that's how you want to word it, but that kind of thing, because I don't want to waste anyone's time, but if people are like, yeah, if there was a place for me to come and meet these people, I would do it. I don't know. That was my one thought under that question. It's not gonna be coffee a boarding job. I'm in section from that one. Okay. You accept free beer. God, you get so stupid. Free beer. Free beer, yes. No, but that was, I don't know. That was the only thing I was thinking of that. If that was one of the things we were considering, which is something we talked about, is that going to be something that people are interested in? And again, instead of testing one assumption, we could ask a more open-ended question in terms of town councilor and town staff are exploring new and unique ways to engage with the community on an ongoing basis. What ideas would you say, or what would you be willing to attend? And it could have everything from open houses to happy hours to coffee. Yes, please. That's great. And then my only other comment, I don't know which question it's under, but it's under where you talk about the Rec Center. Okay. And I didn't write down the number. But what's, do you know what section the Rec Center is in? No. Yes, it is. It's 32 is overall recreation. Yeah, 32. And it starts on, yeah, 31 is where it starts. OK, so it was 32, it was in the overall. So you say, wreck programs, I felt like it should be divided in between youth programs and adult programs. Because I may think that the youth programs are amazing. But then I might think that there is just not enough variety. Like, it would be nice to have more adult leagues. So that was my only comment on that. I felt like it would be helpful to know if they were talking about kids or adults. You. Okay. And that was really my only question, because Marke covered the snow removal thing, so that was it. Great. It was a very helpful thank you. I mean I'll look at it again but I that was my first sort of. Well even on number 33 the number all that you participated in but what I do here some complaints I shouldn't call complaints is particularly the adults would love more fitness classes. Swim lessons are limited to only a certain season. So I mean number, I don't know, do we offer, the right amount or should we add more? And I don't know. And I know that's something that the staff struggles with all the time is they're, we're very willing to offer them if there's an up to man But we need so many kids to be in the lesson to make the lesson viable and Exactly. And so that's one of those questions that I know that the parks and rec staff looked at very closely And they're trying to find ways to get that information, but it doesn't come down to would you do it? Or do you want it? Can we actually get the five kids signed up for the programs where we struggle a lot? And you'll notice here that there are follow-up and more specific questions about the types of fitness programs that are offered and both the class offerings and the age groups and things like that. Because now that fitness classes are part of a membership, they've seen a huge uptick in levels of participation. So they want to test, hey, are we offering the right stuff for the right people? So that's an area where yes they are getting the attendance and community support and they want to refine their offerings. So I think that speaks to Clint's point. Any other? I have one more thing that I forgot. One of the things in our goals we talked about was not only the economic sustainability but environmental sustainability and there's no questions in here about anything regarding the environment, like plastic bags, that kind of stuff. I don't even know if this is the right place for it, but that was my thought. Is should there be anything regarding, I mean, I know there was recycling questions and waste, but I'm just throwing it out there. I don't know the answer. It was just the only thing that sort of came to me that was on our list cycling questions and waste, but I'm just throwing it out there. I don't know the answer. It was just the only thing that sort of came to me that was on our list that I didn't really see covered. In 2013, we had a very specific question at the 5,000 foot level questions about how important do you feel the following are? And they were everything from the town leading the way in their own commitment to carbon emission reductions to, I mean, I think it had about five very specific measures. And the reason it was taken out is everyone felt they were very important. It's again a matter of how and are you willing to pay for it. So I think if we were to ask that question, I would adapt it very differently than 2013, because again we heard resoundingly everyone thought it was very important, which is great. I mean, that's something that's good for you to test that it's a a big council priority But maybe something that gave us more direction would be more helpful my My kind of interpretation read this and so I'm trying to see this correct is that in comparison to the last survey This survey is being very cautious to not necessarily provide a specific project or a specific solution because a lot of different things happen with those types of answers like you're saying. So they're all important or then it becomes politicized because it's 50, you know, 51 to 49 on a top, a particular issue. And in a way, that's really, to some degree, council's job is perhaps the work of these things. So you're getting a more, I don't know why I say cautious, but it's frustrating because we can't get specific. We want to know what people want, but at the same time, at least when I compare what we did in the last survey, I think we learned some interesting things about how that can go positively or negatively, because all of us, and how you interpret that, and how these specific questions can be really kind of fraught. So I think this is a good direction. Great. I know other than that, I'm a little disturbed with the Rocky Mountain Institute, but I know you'll be happy there. I knew that was going to come up at some point. Kelly, I have a couple of questions. Well, I have a question and a couple of thoughts. You are in this You know, you're hoping to get help from commercial businesses, lodging partners, et cetera, et cetera, during the off season when they're closed. So how do you anticipate getting that kind of cooperation that you're hoping for? Well this does come on the heels of some of our larger events so we're hoping that some of our lodging partners will be open. However, when we look at the 2013 survey, we administered that in October I believe, which was definitely not ideal, but it did work. So since we are targeting employers and employees, we depend a lot on those partners to reach to their employees. But that's something we should definitely look at, making sure we hit it. So I mean, I had a, as I was reading, you know, your list of who you're trying to sort of speak sign up or help you collect email addresses and contacts and so forth. I had a thought that to consider sending out something like a Save the Date card and put, you know, even do it the end of March or sometime it towards the end of the ski season when everybody's still open to alert people that, you know, our communication department is looking for help with emails and, you know, for the purpose of this community survey that's gonna run in the summertime and I don't know maybe that might help you To collect some of this stuff even before things shut down for the offseason. So bumping that expand the contact list earlier Yeah, I think that's a good idea. Yeah, because that Tactic of getting out early and saying, help us build our list is exactly what we did in 2013. We sent out an automatic direct mail postcard basically to every PO box that said, hey, we want to hear from you, the surveys coming. But here from you, we need to know how to get a hold of you. And here's where to sign up to take it. So I think that was really effective because it allowed us to build our list for future communications, but bumping that earlier so that we aren't laying the groundwork in the offseason, I think, is an excellent, excellent idea. And then my only question on the questions is, I guess, something that's relatively minor, but towards the end you have questions about where you live, depending on how you answered earlier questions. And on page 89, there's a question. I think for residents of Snowmass Village, and you list all these various areas, except if you don't include Ridge Run. So I personally offended. So am I. Dolly noted and added. I had a quick representation. Oh my gosh. They caught us, Kelly. All right. Thank you. How large is the list that you currently have? I'm not sure if you're going to be going to be able to get the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right to the right people who have subscribed to receive our online notifications, our e-news letter, and just regular notifications from town. So that is our town government email address. It is, there is probably a great deal of crossover, but it is a different list than snowmast tourism. And there are definitely a great partner in this in terms of reaching the community, reaching our businesses, reaching our merchants. But this is a town government list specific to people who have subscribed for news and notifications on government. And then you use these questions like Bob had pointed out on page 89 to kind of qualify if they're locals or they're just kind of on the list. Yeah, yeah. We'll get some basic demographic information. And then we ask if they would like to be included in a drawing to win a prize. Snowmest Horsam has very generously offered some JAS tickets. We did an iPad last year. And that just really helps sweeten the pot a little bit in terms of getting people to take their time and participate. The demographic information is important because it can tell us a lot about, you know, where, especially, for example, the neighborhoods and how they answer the questions about public works and solid waste and recycling, those are very important. You know, we're definitely not here to play big brother, but they are important for us to understand where a respondent is coming from. And you might have noticed, and I hope no one got confused by these little logic notes. Those just sort of note where we've built logic into the survey. So when you take it online, this kind of is a little code for how the answer to that question may direct you elsewhere in the survey. And it's not an anonymous survey. I mean, you asked for the name at the end, right? It is an anonymous survey unless you choose to provide your email address and information. To get your prize. It's the only way to get the right. But I probably, since we only collect email addresses, you know, snowmiss tourism likes to collect a lot of demographic information so they know, hey, I know you like to ski, so I'm going to send you offers and promotions on skiing. We do not, because we just really don't have a reason to hold that kind of information. So I probably will take out the first and last name this time. It's just information that's unnecessary and we don't want people to feel that it's being used in a way. So we would probably just ask for the email address and take out first and last name. Has the list grown since the last survey? It has. Yes, just organically through our regular communications, e-news letter, advertising, things like that. And how large was the send for the last survey? 3700 I believe if I just speak speaking off the top of my head. And remind me the number of respondents? A thousand. So there's a lot of room for improvement. But let's just say I hit that thousand by the skin of my teeth. Stay out front and grow fish during the post office for a week. How is it you jump? For arriving people with donuts. I don't think where we were before. Yeah, what? Communication and email list. That's right. No, don't offer it. On the first question, what's the asterisk for? Required. It says, which of the following best describes you? And then there's like a little asterisk or something. Required questions have an asterisk. I Feel like I didn't notice anything. Okay, that is the only required question simply because it's It's really important to know where you're coming from on that any other feedback for Kelly Any other questions so what our hope is Got two weeks to button this thing up. We'll get it back in front of you for some kind of final Approval and then we get it back in front of you for some kind of final approval and then we'll get it out in the streets using the consultants getting them there. But you'll get one more shot at it. Hopefully, the shot at it is going to be a consent agenda item to say we got everything rolled in the way you want. Get it out from there. Good work. Thanks. And what I'll do when the next draft is make it pretty clear in terms of where we've made edits so you don't just receive another snapshot. I'll make it more specific as to where we made changes and you should be able to react to it pretty easily. Thank you all for your time. Okay, back to the town goals. I think everybody's kind of fading. What? I think everybody's kind of fading. Oh. I'm going to go to town. It's completely up to you. I mean, we could put it on a work session. You want to touch on stuff next week. There is one issue of sponsorship. I'd like to stick on the work session. I know Crablunik from tonight needs to be on there. If you want to roll over these, just one more time with the work session. I'd like to talk you out of that, but yeah. Well, we can't do all of them. Exactly. So we need to kind of narrow the. Well, I'd love to have that discussion why purposely love to date stuff, but yeah, I think, because sometimes opportunities come up. And you've got to take the opportunity when it's there. But I mean, I think that's the exact kind of discussion we should be having about why we're what we're trying to hit and find a way for you to hold us accountable, that reaching those goals. I understand that and I'm all for it. But we want to be nimble, but at the same time. So let's find that sweet spot. Yeah. Do you want to do that at work session, guys? So you want to do a hammer right now? Well, what's the still for the next work session? It's Crablunic. Crablunic? Could you guys were trying to limit it to two hours? It starts at five, goes to seven. Crablunic will be the majority. Two resums got a real quick update on just some promotion, not promotion, but sponsorship. We just want to make sure you understand how we're dealing with some sponsorships. That'll be ten minutes the most. And then this goal setting would be the three items. Are we? Well, do we have anything else that's really important that we want to talk? Here's this huge list that you sent out. If you go to that last, the very last item on your agenda that you've got. Yep, yeah. I've got the, I didn't put numbers on it, but I've got the. The issues that I've heard that you want to talk about at some point. Right. On agenda items. Is that what we're talking about? The list of agenda items? Yeah, topics for work sessions, I think they're called it. The very last page. It was a very last page. Or second last page, I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. And I need to. So those are, if there's something else you want to put on there for this upcoming Monday, that's why I'd make sure this is our draft list. I tried to make sure it's sort of in English, but it's basically notes. And then after that, or you have the page after that, you can see we just start kind of sketching it out. And it's very fluid where stuff something falls in. But we're trying to make sure that the meetings don't go too long and we don't get too many topics on a meeting. Right. And whether it's a public hearing or not, that we try and make sure we don't double up to them. Well, I was going to ask if we could have the detail from the original SGM study on traffic that we can't because it has to be done at a public session for traffic. Excuse me, one traffic. So. Excuse me, one second. Madam Mayor. In the newspaper today, there was another article about transportation in relating to the base. And there was an engineering company that was identified in this article, the name of which I can't remember. FHU. Yeah, F probably. That they had come up with this concept that there was going to be another 125 cars running through the, basically, wood road and you really need to save this discussion when the people are just going to ask my question. Who is this engineering company and who did they do work for? They were hired by the applicant to prepare. They've been, the applicant, the prior applicant, they've been the traffic consultant on the applicant since the beginning and the town has their own consultant. Okay. ours is SGM. Right. FHU is them. Okay. We'll check each other. Thank you. That's all I wanted to ask. Okay. Let me suggest perhaps combining a few of the agenda items for potential work. We know the ice rink has been a disaster this year. Mother Nature did not help. Yeah, Mother Nature did not help. We had talked about the shading of that and that didn't happen, but far more importantly. Well, on that one, direct counsel directly asked for an analysis of what a shade structure. We've got some numbers that we're ready to come back. Well, I think maybe we could be the whole issue of the whole entryway is way up there in the air. And would it be wise to spend some time next at the work session on entryway planning? Or updates? I think, I mean, if you're gonna limit it to two hours, I think between Criblinic, goals, and the quick update on sponsorships, your two hours will be shot. Okay, that will be shot. You'll be full. But we'll be quiet. Two hours probably. The entryway, I would like to say. So maybe that's the April agenda. And that the entryway, I mean, what I'm going to try and ask you to do is broaden that discussion up to all capital projects and I think that's- Sure, we'll find with it. Because there's a whole list and we, I don't even know where we'll be by April, but I know we are working on it now. We're trying to make sure that when we present the budget to you, we've got something. So if we can keep it loose for now, I would appreciate it this upcoming week You just heard the agenda and then I understand it's a priority to priority for us But I want to be able to come to you and say hey roughly speaking we've got X amount of dollars just been annually Here's you know, here's some ideas here's how we're thinking and then have you have to give you something to comment on Versus not the reason why I'm putting it out there, we're throwing it out there. I know the rodeo leases coming. They have another, the whole season to go right now. And they've got some real season coming. Right, but they're season, their lease goes through this upcoming season. So they're set to be upcoming season and ironically or whatever. We met within this morning. We were working on some lease issues to make sure that in fact there's flexibility built on both sides. But I think with the discussion is working. We're great for the season. But that is going to be one of those discussions about hey, where do we want how much flexibility? Let's get in that whole entry way conversation. And we talked to them. Honestly, the third question was about timing we said, listen, it's going to take money to do something, get money, we need to go through a budget process. Here's the kind of, you know, lead time you can expect to receive if something were to happen one way or the other. And they seem pretty satisfied with what our process would be expected to be. Okay, doke, are we good for work session? And then what hopefully, when we get a little bit more rhythm going with this I'd like to get the work session set a little earlier Just in case there's something that we need to do a lot of research for that we're ready to go but we'll get warmed up and Gendup for this It's gonna be tough You get the cderblonic stuff completed key Okay Will we cancel the work session on May 11th since there's two people missing? I was going to look for a different day to meet them. It's up to you. We could look at a different day during the month of May. We can do that next week if you want. Let's go ahead and do it next week. Okay, I can give you my schedule. I can do it right now then. Okay. I know what I mean. I just have to look at a calendar. Okay, let's pull up our calendars for May. Alyssa, are you out at all? I don't think so. Okay, you're good. How about you, Bill? I would love to be somewhere, but I don't think I will be. I'm just out that one week. We don't even know if we've got an agenda item yet. We will. We'll have the CIP. No, we'll have some. We promise. We got a long list over here you gave us. I just promise we wouldn't set meetings. You don't need meetings I'm just we just want to get it on calendar. I get paid the same well. Well, Bob looks at his calendar Chris How about you for May? Uh-huh. I am probably pretty flexible with the exception of the week of the 18th. Okay I'm out From the fifth I think I get back the 19th. Yeah, man, where are you going? When did he say his back? What would be 11th and the 18th? Yeah, I'm missing the 18th and missing the 11th. I Can make the 18th, but I can't the rest of my weeks. Your shot, then we could go to the following, well, you're right around the quarters, June in a work session. Unless we go the very first week, you have Council on the fourth and you leave on the fifth? Yeah. Dang. I know. The 25th is memorial day. Yeah. The four of us is, I mean mean better than three. Well how about we look at the fifth guys? Cinco de Maya? Drake, Margarita's. Or the 19th of Chris won't be here and you won't be here. I can do the 18th. I can do the 19th. Well it will be a regular meeting on the 18th. So how about we do the fifth perhaps this a work session? Monday night and then Tuesday night as well. I'm just trying to do a mile. It works back Tuesday meeting. What about like a Thursday? Thursday the seventh. Just throwing it out there. Yep. I happen to know it's Mark Kiddell's birthday. But, in my case, all the reason that I'm here. You won't sleep my day. I don't know why that's all I got under. I like us on Facebook. May 7th. May 6th. May 7th. May 6th. Okay, let's go May 7th. Can you do it? I believe so. May 7th. From 5 to 7. 5 to 7. Chris? Yeah. Okay. I think this group is into brain dead. Okay. Okay. Anything else? At least it's on here. We can always cancel it. So there's no session on May 11th. Right. And that will start at 5. Okay. Okay. Other items on the agenda for this evening? Council comments, reports, actions. I'm going to start with Alyssa. Nope. Bill. Nothing. I don't have anything pressing I have a Rued eye water and power meeting on Wednesday um And I guess I will report back Report back at the next council meeting 16 mm-hmm. Are you nervous? I don't think so, but I'm just going to put it out there and listening to our conversations tonight a little bit about baby parameters of our process and reviewing the application and I know even though, you know, Markey and I have done it a bit. of our process and reviewing the application. And I know even though, you know, Mark, you and I have done it a bit. It does, I guess the staff or does council feel like we need maybe a quick review before we go into that process and I guess a mask gets to the new members or. Oh, on the 16th. Yeah, and I'm just throwing it out there. Because it's obviously sort of as Bob has been asked some questions. There's sort of some complicated aspects to it. I guess. I don't know. Just was throwing it out. Might not be a bad reminder to go through during the work session. But it's up to you guys. That was number one on your work session list. Ethics, dynamics, process, CML, search. But whatever you want to do, I mean... We do a quick quasi-judicial update. We just kind of stuff. I mean, you can have top your head on Monday. Would that be be if we did it a week from today and just said, Hey, this is what Quadritorial means again. It's kind of the here's when you can listen here's when you can't hear. Great idea. Because like even for myself, now that we're back to pre sketch, but we have such a developed plan, there's all these kind of aspects that it might just be good to kind of be reminded of. I think it would be helpful. Spread sheet, you know, where, okay, anyway, just throw it in. Great idea. Thanks, guys. One more quick comment that I forgot to do. I did have a meeting with the Kid Hamley last week at Water and Sanitation, more or less, so I could get somewhat prepared about what the Rood Eye Water and Power is all about and how it interacts and how snowmess water and sand is interacting with RUDEI Water and Power. And it was a very useful meeting from my perspective. And RUDEI Water and Power coincidentally sent out a survey to its members just after I met with Kit and I felt it really helped me to have some opinion, you know, going in and put some answers onto this in this survey. Did you do the tour? Didn't do it to a tour. The tour is awesome. I've totally explained it. I've told you, Cranor. We want to ask you to go into specifics there. Well, I'll ask him for the tour, because I'm having lunch with him tomorrow. There you go. It's good. I mean, I don't know. I'd never see the fish, like how in the whole thing like that. I mean, I don't know. I'd never see the fist like how it's so anyway. It's just I thought it was amazing Okay We have nothing else on our agenda to have a motion for a German So moves Second on support. Hi, I suppose. So move. Second. Second. All in support. Aye. Aye. Opposed. Thank you. you you you