With that, Rhonda Rokall. Butler. Here. Jacobson. Circus. He's here. I don't know where he went. Sorry, my dad's not here. That's it. Here. Shining. Here. OK. I will now open for public comment. Do I have anyone in the public who would like to make a comment? I see no hands, so we'll move on to a piece of it. Oh yeah, this happens when we all get into the afternoon hours. I ask Alyssa because we have a long meeting tonight on budget and I know that many of you watching on TV are not going to watch three hours of budget. So there's a great deal going on right now with connectivity plan and Alyssa went to the session today. I'm going to have her to talk briefly about it and what she learned and get more people to come out tomorrow. Sure. So I attended the steering committee meeting for the CCP, that's the Community Connectivity Plan, and the poster committee, which is short for parks, open space, trails, and recreation. And basically, these two committees came out of council goals, which are to improve connectivity in our town and to work on our trails and rack spaces. So the steering committee met today. Tomorrow there's an open house from 330 to 7 at the Snowmass Rec Center and I encourage people to go out to the open house because the way that these committees are working is they are gathering information from community members as to what works, what doesn't work, what they would like to see. So if you're a trail user or you use the rec center or anything, you are nervous about crossing brush creek road, you have to come and give your feedback because that's the only way that we're going to be able to make these improvements and also work to sustain the things that already exist within our town. We had an amazing turnout today, so thank you to everyone that came out. I was really impressed at all sort of the different constituents that came out in support of these two new committees. And the reason why they're going on simultaneously is because connectivity-wise, they are related. And the CCP, I think, ends in March, and the other one doesn't, I think, in total July, may or July, or something like that. But there are consultants, and they are going to be there tomorrow to answer questions and seek your input on various things. So if you hike, and you think there should be be a trail somewhere there's not, come on out and tell us about it. Did you talk about a dog park at all? No, but you should come down and give that suggestion to me. I'm going to go flying up in the air and a balloon. But that's a perfect example. A dog park. If that's something that interests you, come on out and give us the idea. The only way this is going to work is to get the community feedback. There also will be surveys going out regarding these different committees. Sir Gus, here. I have a question for you, Alyssa. One of the things we talked about during this preliminary plan approval was connectivity over in base village and the Skittles and then talked about the trail that goes up. Is that part of the research part of it? Yeah and today they had all these board setup and you could write notes and you could draw lines where you think trails should be or different areas that need to be looked at further. I mean they've put a lot of hard work into it and today today, they're having interviews with different people within the community. Like they met with a school bus director today to talk about the various stops within the village. So I think they're really kind of taking it all in and getting an idea from all the various constituents and community participants and seeing where we need to make changes. That sounds wonderful for a turnout. So I encourage everyone, stop by the Rec Center from 330-7 tomorrow. Okay. Thank you very much. The only thing I'd add to that is if you can't make tomorrow, then later on soon, I'll just leave it at soon, we'll also have a lot of online applications for people to give and put that way. So if you make it tomorrow great, we can answer a lot of questions. And if you can't make it tomorrow, we'll have a lot of online opportunities for input as well. Great, well thank you. We're going to move into the consent agenda was in your packet. Do I have a motion of approval for the consent agenda? So moved. Second. Any discussion? If not all in support say aye. Aye. Opposed same sign. Okay moving on. I see we have ordinance number seven series of 2015 update of town of Snowmass Village building cremates. So that was part of the consent and so it's part of the budget process. We wanted to make sure it's a revenue and so tonight it's a concept before you. We'll make sure that comes back. I believe we've got a schedule for November 2nd to come back when we do the public hearing while the public hearing for that as well. Well I thought it was very well done so Mark Hiddell needs to be applauded for the quality of that work that was well done. Pass that on for sure. Next would be public hearings. We do not have a schedule public hearing this evening. However, I think many of people throughout the town saw an article this morning in the paper, the Aspen Daily, regarding issues and determination by related of sunrise, which at this point in time, it's our understanding is was to be building seven and eight. I think many people were very surprised, shocked, and I don't know other words of came from other people, but I think it caught all of us a little bit off guard. What I hear some more things during the day, a lot of this is probably fact, truth, fiction, a variety of comments and speculations. And I think it would be in the town's best interest, our council's best interest, that we direct, clint, and staff to really explore what the heck is going on. We as a town council need to know what's going on. Why is it going on? What caused whatever and where we are relative to being able to move into the final phase of the development and also timelines and milestones. I mean, all of those issues that everyone in the community, everyone sitting at Council, planning commission, planning department on and on and on have really rolled up their sleeves to get done let alone all the people that are involved with the development. So I'm going to ask council if they have any comments but I do think it's very important that we go into an exploratory phase and direct Clint to do so because I want to know what's going on. Bob did you have any comments or? Well, I mean, I agree that we should definitely find out what's going on before we make any really, any further moves or emotions from the bench here. My probably my primary concern is maintaining the timeline for building seven and eight so that the milestones of course are made and the investing is maintained. I think at this point I really would like to be assured in some fashion as this evolves that that construction will be able to start in the spring as it was supposed to. And I think if that were to happen, the timeline should fall into place. Alyssa, Bill? Go ahead. I mean, I'm just gonna echo your sentiments. I mean, I do agree with what you're saying, Bob. I will say that I feel like, you know, when we approve the process, knowing that sunrise was building those buildings and having the confidence that we do in their product and that they're local and what they have to offer was very reassuring. And I think there's a lot of information we don't have. And so I think the information gathering process would be very helpful to us if this could. Yeah, I want to second that the point that you just made that one one reason that in my opinion one of one of my reasons for working through this preliminary plan and supporting it along the line is that we had essentially local people that we knew had some experience and we had some experience with, they had credibility, they had credibility of their product because we could go nine miles down the road and see it and feel it and so forth. And it's unsettling to me that this would happen at this point right after the preliminary plan was approved last week. Yeah. And one week, the landscape changed. Why? Yeah, for me, I would say it's the word to be concerning. I think the project that we approved is in jeopardy. You know, what we had gone, spent the last year looking at, and you know, we had questions about seven and eight. The applicant turned right to sunrise to answer those questions. So I'm very concerned that we've had this change within the last couple of days, especially since the approval process. It was the timing is a huge concern for me. the approval process, it was the timing is a huge concern for me. Yes, it's very, very concerning. So, Clant, yes, Mark, come on up. We're all community. Come on up. Mark Stout, resident snowmass village, in light of this news with, with related and everything I am am one of those that are shocked that it seems as though Every time we're gaining ground we're taking one step forward and three four five steps backwards and At some point of time we've got to Continue to move forward without these backwards steps. I don't know what power that the council has to be able to do that. But at some point in time, it's got to stop. It's got to keep moving forward. And I'm really concerned that one of the prime spots for base village and building or sections seven and eight. You know, it's a vital part of the, it's like the heartbeat right there. And I just don't understand it. It seems like all the recent news is just negative, negative, negative. I want to see some positive movement forward. And in light of, with sunrise and that, there are local community, they're very well respected and reputable, and I don't understand why at this juncture, the timing, Billy, as you said, I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it, so I just wanted to speak my mind on that. Thank you. Thank you very, very much, Mark. I truly appreciate it. Any other comments coming from the public? Can I just say one other thing? I just wanted to thank Sunrise for the amount of time and effort that they put into trying to put forth a product that was appealing and I think going to be a great attribute to the base village. That's been amazing. Let alone all the money. Which I don't even want to speculate how much money they've spent. So we hope that this can get right-sided and we can move forward in a timely manner, but the plant, if you could. Yep. What we can do is we'll make phone calls, we'll look into it, we'll try and generate as many facts as we can and provide those and so you know it. And you know, honestly what we understand from related at least is that they are on schedule to submit final plans and you know the council's there's one step further to go and that's there's a lot of authority left and final plan approval process and so we'll work in conjunction with the applicant and whoever else you know involved to get the facts to you all but really a lot of your authority comes to that approval of final and to make sure that, you know, what's approved, assuming there isn't approval, is in fact reflective of what was presented through preliminary. And that's what that final step is for, and that's going to be your final decision in the end of the process. So at the end of the day, the cards are held by town council. You get to approve it a final, and that's why we have this step. And you have to feel comfortable that what was presented is in fact being documented and all the everything coming forward. And that's what that final process is for. And that's where you guys get to weigh in very heavy on this. And that will be a great opportunity for you all to express or let us know how close the application is to what you expected it to be. So by October 19th perhaps we might have a pretty solid update from hopefully you. I'm going to give you a solid try our best absolutely. How's that? Absolutely. But yeah, no we're on it and we'll be looking into it and we'll try and give an update to our best of our ability and figure out, you know, so you all know what the next steps will look like and we all understand what to expect in that final application. You know, I always say we don't know what we don't know. Here we go again. Okay, moving on. We have a budget in front of us this evening. I'm going to turn it over to Clint and Marianne Harkowski. We've got for those of you who want to print this off. It's like this. Go to your computer screen. Go to Granicus. Follow along. It's all posted. And we welcome your participation. If you want to send us a note on our TOSB or sometimes my text goes off or to cland or one of us, that would be great as there are questions. Needless to say putting a budget together takes hours and hours and hours. I've also shared with Clandton, Marianne. This is the first time that three of my colleagues are going through a town budget. So we will be asking, there'll be a lot of questions and some of the questions that may come forth. It's like, I tell you this every year, Margie, why do you keep asking this same question? But I do want my colleagues to be all up today. Well, we'll just start again with asking the questions and we'll probably, I was thinking about this today while I was looking through this and I think that I think the questions I've got are probably questions you get every year from whoever's new and maybe whoever didn't remember because it strikes me that the complexity of this budget is such that it's kind of difficult to absorb all in one shot. After all these years I don't get it. Yeah, it's gone. Okay, here we go. So Brandy and Marianne are the brains behind the operation. They do all the heavy lifting and I get to be the face today. So I'll take all the easy questions. I'll take the hard ones. And that's our deal. So this is an informal discussion. It's a regular counseling meeting tonight, but we kind of set it up as a discussion. So stop, interrupt, let us know what you're thinking. And our goal is to kind of work through this budget letter that we prepared for you. We think that it's the vast majority of the issues. We prepared a similar letter for the finance advisory board, went through it with them, were able to answer, I think the majority of their questions, they've got a set of recommendations that I think Phil's gonna go through here in a few minutes. But so they've gone through this on the council's behalf, and then we'll go through it with you guys. And so there is a lot of detail on this, but what we're trying to do is use this to kind of get that big picture overview with you all to make sure you understand what these big chunks look like and to make sure that we're really impacting the air days or the town and community that you want impacted. And then if there's something that we're missing, this is a great opportunity for us to hear that and try to work that in and understand how best to incorporate some of these things in here. So it's a discussion. We've got a lot to go through, but we're more interested in making sure that you all know the big issues that we've identified in the agenda and the budget. And if there's something you want to talk about further, we're prepared to talk about it. We've got more graphs, more charts, more stuff that you want to talk about than you probably will. So knowing that this is a process that's outlined in the charter and in ordinance, one of the requirements is that we as staff present this to the finance advisory board first. And so instead of going through all this and then going back and forth and hearing the recommendations, we thought it might be better and I look at it and feel to make sure, you know, he's about ready to go on the spot here. But the finance advisory board spent many hours on this few weeks back and came up with a list of recommendations that I know is in your packet tonight. And I thought maybe I'd let Phil maybe start with some of the FAB recommendations. It's kind of starting the middle of the going to the end but making sure that you can at least know where they're starting from. And then we'll go to the budget and hit a lot of the details from there if that works for you guys. And that way, Phil doesn't have to sit through three hours of budget presentation. Good, because we already did that. I know. Hi Phil, how are you? I'm doing great. Okay, I thought I'd go through some of these recommendations the first few on... Oh, I need I'd go through some of these recommendations the first few on I need to introduce you or you need to introduce who you are Phil Suriani and I'm a member of the finance advisory board are We have a I guess he's president chairman chairman is Greg Smith, but he couldn't be here. So I'm here in his place Thank you. Thank you Phil. You're welcome So on these recommendations the first two or three, have you all read them? So I don't think there's anything unless you have questions on the first few there. I do. Okay. When we get into the General Fund operating reserve point number two. Did you set a threshold, a revised threshold for the general operating reserve? Those were all done by fund. Correct, Clint? Great. So what we did is we, last year the council set the minimum at 17%. Yes. 16. Thank you. So correct me, whatever. Oh, she will. At 16% and then actually going through it, Mary Ann and I, you know, when the parent and the budget we thought we've got the reserves in place, 25% operating reserves was a more conservative position to be in. It provides for greater flexibility going forward. And in my experience, the manager, it's a percentage that's used more often by communities than 16%. I know how that was reached through GFOA recommendations, but it's our recommendation, my recommendation specifically that we increase that reserve to 25% this year. And what would be our days operating cash on hand then? Well, 25%. So, I mean, you know, we spend way more January, February, March than we do, April, May, June. On the average. It's just four months operating. It's just taking 25% or three months, sorry, three months operating. Yes, about 64% of the year. Just for the general fund, fund balance, because I know you asked this question every year. It's about 234 days. If I were to take the total fund balance across all of the funds, taking out the CIP and the CIRF because those are funded through transfers, it's about 273 days out of 365 that could be funded. That assumes no other revenue comes in and we don't make any cuts and expenditures, which of course would happen. And that's this is set up so that if we knock on wood Ever to our experience and no snow year We've got some reserves to deal with that with that issue and that's so that's fundamentally why we're asking for the increase So is that a minimum operating reserve? Yes. It would be our new minimum. So we're taking it from 16 to 25 in this budget. And this proposed budget. You of course have to buy off on it and agree to it. But it is set up to take the reserve from 16 to 25. Okay. Thank you. I have a question on the marketing fund reserve. Yes. Phil, as I look through the rest of this, it appeared to me that the marketing fund reserve was not being increased in 2016. We're not proposed to be increased in 2016. Is that correct? That's correct. Okay. So what did the FAB think it, what it should have think it should be increased by? We didn't have any problem with how they budgeted it, so if there's no increase, we were okay with that. Well, your comment though, is the FAB would encourage the marketing fund reserve to be increased? And just there's a little bit of history in this, and this is pretty me, so I'm just regurgitating some in history But at one point it was proposed to go up to that 16 to 17% reserve fund and the the marketing board actually came back and made a Plea to the council directly to say to keep it at 10% and so It's a direct as it says a direct request from them during last year's budget process or two years ago They can't yeah, they came before the FAB first and presented that they thought that it should remain at 10% knowing that the goal is eventually to get to the 16%. But they were looking at some of the product enhancement and they wanted to make sure they had some funding available to do that. So I think going forward it's going to be a goal to increase that that that reserve but in 16 we don't have it allocated yet. I was actually reading further down but in your thing we did obviously to have the fund not increased along with the other ones could be a problem so as far as how much I don't think we discussed that. We've got to that number. Correct, Clint? Correct. And this is one of those, the only thing we're increasing this year is the general fund, which is our largest operating fund. It does cop streets, all that kind of thing. I think going forward, if we get policy direction from you guys, that this is the way to go forward, I think we can look at those other funds going insane. We're looking at the previous conversation we just had about the general fund is the goal to increase the reserves for these other funds to 25% or are we comfortable at 16 for everything else? But would like to have 25 for the general fund? I can tell you personally, I haven't done the analysis for the other funds. I don't I mean I know we was acceptable last year. It's you know as a finance person I'm speaking on behalf of Mary Ann. It's always better to have more and we do it makes people more comfortable just in case. So I understand. So I know for the general fund that's why we're making the recommendation this year for the other ones we haven't taken undertaken that evaluation. So I know for the general fund, that's why we're making the recommendation this year. For the other ones, we haven't undertaken that evaluation. So I don't have a solid number. There's some funds like the lottery fund. There's no reason to do that there. We did do an evaluation with the financial advisory board last year. We did two meetings where we walked through all of the funds. So all of the funds were increased to 16% except for some of the smaller funds where it wasn't necessary. When Clint came on board he had the desire to go, yeah, I mean sales taxes, we've gone through those cuts before at the beginning of the recession and said let's just get it to 25% and in our biggest fund. And so we did all of that. We also added that 16% to the housing funds, which wasn't there in the past as well. The road fund, we wanted 16%, but there was a challenge in that fund where we would have had to decrease the amount of overlays. So we said, well, let's put that reserve fund in the general fund. So right now, the general fund is funding the 25% for the general fund, as well as 16% of the operations for the road fund as well. Until we get the road fund to a point where it can sustain it on its own. Yeah, we've had problems with rat, we've had a variety of them. Yeah, and the rat we left at 2 million, which is about one year of expenditures, and the financial advisory board felt comfortable with that. So that's the only fund that has a flat amount. It seems to me that the marketing and group sales, those two funds are very similar in regard, in the way we're looking at the general fund. IE, if we have a particularly snowless winter, then our lodging taxes is gonna go down, you know, significantly decrease. And in the same vein, if we get the wrong kind of weather in the summertime, we could also see significant decreases. So from my perspective, I don't understand why the marketing and group sales should be a 10% if everything else is at least 16. In an all-cander, my gut without a lot's we took a we took an incremental improvement. We got the improvement to the general fund the largest fund first. And I think going forward we absolutely intend on looking at the other two funds. And it is more of an incremental look. But one other thing, part of the. Our ask for the suggestion for the increase also goes to if you go to the six bullet point down. We talk about the marketing fund should reimburse a general fund for expenses associated with special events. Because of that happening you probably will need a bigger reserve especially. Hopefully they'd know on a special event once that's going to cost beforehand or a year before and then get that into the budget so that it's not it doesn't impact. I don't know on some of these and Clinton you have to't impact, I don't know on some of these, and Clinton, you don't have to speak to this. I don't know on some of these special events if they figure that out six months in advance or a year in advance. So if they have some big hit on a special event, it will hit the marketing fund. Right. Well, that's, I guess, what I was, that sort of bring up, brought up another thought about this, which is, I think there was a number in the budget for the transfer from the- Right, 150,000 dollars. Right, from marketing to the general fund. Correct. So is that an estimate that's based on anything historical or is that a number that's sort of... It's based on actuals from this year and the actuals, we did the analysis in at least two or three different ways. There's different ways to charge. You charge a flat rate for police officer time. Do you actually go in, you know, an overtime rate for transportation, if they'd be behind me. I mean, there's a way to just do the direct cost of fuel, or do you try and figure out what the FTA would charge back. And we came up with a middle ground number. Actually, it's probably a lower end number, because again, it's the first year we've made the number. But it's based on actuals with some lower estimates. So with that transfer being new in 2016? Correct. Is that, was that, did that enter into the question of the amount of the reserve? It didn't, really. I mean, what, what that was more of a discussion of is, when we bring all these events to town, there's, there's impacts on general fund operating departments. Transportation police are the two easiest departments to look at parks also. And rather than trying to figure out, hey, when X, Y, Z event comes in, and we need to have them pay for extra police or extra transportation or whatever those kind of things are, we thought a best, let's have those dollars available to those general fund departments. Have the marketing department, that's their core responsibility to bring these events in. It's an expense of the event. Let's have these dollars available in the general fund to provide these services. And that way, it's difficult somewhat for the operating folks because, yeah, they have the revenues in their budget to make these operations happen, but they still have to manage through it. They still have to get their staff there. They still have to have the staff work at the OT and do all those kinds of issues, but at least they've got the resources to make that happen. It's kind of a new approach for us this year. There are some events that still pay their own way in different ways. And so we have the flexibility with the marketing department to negotiate with different events, different ways to pay for it and cover expenses. But these are expenses that we identified over the last couple of years and said these are clearly expenses generated by the event that are a bit absorbed by the general fund today and let's go ahead and have the marketing fund pay for those expenses. In the whole, the 150 wasn't the total impact, because they had already been paying directly for transportation services, which was probably around 60, 70,000. So they had already been paying that. So the net impact was maybe around another 80, or 90,000 to their budget. And I think if I, this is walking back in memory lane, one of the reasons why we didn't increase the reserve for marketing was the fact that we don't have a full base village built out. So marketing and have itself in group sales has done an incredible job, did a great job during this summer and we can all be very proud of it. But we felt let's worry more about moving toward at higher number of 16%. Once we see some action in base village. Yeah, and I think the chairperson at the time, John Borthwick had actually come to the financial advisory board and spoke to them. And he felt like the board felt like they had more of an opportunity to dial back quickly if they needed to on expenditures if those revenues weren't coming in. Okay, thank you. Honours but back to your point, I think it's well made and it's going to be something that's going to be looked at at 17 to see should that should that number be increased we just didn't do it in 16. So some of these events are not broken out. So for example, jazz Aspen that has some more transportation and intensive, whereas tough motorbikes. Transportation, we build them directly for all of our services. Yeah, okay. And that's an example of, you know, some events want to get a check from us for cash and pay for the expenses. And some events would rather have the town absorb the expenses and then get a smaller check depending on the services provided and so that goes back down to that negotiation between the town and the event promoter about you know how do they want to be treated and what's the best way and it gives us that that flexibility to do that because there's some events that don't pay anything for services provided, but they get as much smaller subsidy check from the town because we're paying in other ways. So every event has their own budget, though? Correct. It's an internal budget. You guys, which you approve, is a total line item. And then the staff works with that line item to bring as many events as possible in the town and you know what they work through is that are we better off you know having more smaller events or we better off having you know fewer larger events and they find that balance between you know the wonder less and the circus you know they're different expenses different polls but they're both important for different reasons. And so that's what they work through to find a balance that event process. Okay. As long as you're talking about transportation, you can quickly, it's just kind of an aware item that that mill levery goes away. It's about 357,000 a year. It goes away this year. it's about $357,000 a year. It goes away this year. That's, again, as I, that comes out of the general fund, those transportation expenses. So it's just, it's out of the budget, and is what it is. So, but it's already in the budget number, so we're fine. Yeah. Another thing I might highlight, the rec center, we're recommending that that subsidy be 40% of the total revenue that kind of went, excuse me, the total expenses. Sorry. We had back in 2013, the FAB had recommended that we had kind of put a fixed number on them about 310,000, which I, that was in, it was 260,000 out of the operations plus another 50,000 for capital improvements. That's where the 310 came from. Since then in 2015 you guys are at 388,000. Again we didn't have a percentage, we're now recommending a percentage because the fixed number is not being followed. So in 2000 this year it's at 386,000 I believe it that provides budget. That's 38%. 2016 it's up to 47% in the budget That's a concern for the finance advisory board, which is why we are recommended to hold that at 40% So at those numbers it's about $80,000 in other words it at 47% that's a $553,000 subsidy at the rec center is losing We wanted to be about 40% which is 473,000. So obviously the only way to make the 80,000 come down is to either somehow increase revenues or decrease expenses. And I don't know if Clinton or Mary Ann, you want to speak to that at all. But when I get into my presentation, I'll talk about it. I think I disagree with the finance advisory board a little bit calling the subsidy. We're providing a service and we've got a revenue source for that service. I understand how the math works. We had a long three hour debate about it. Call an operating line. Anyhow, whatever you want to call it. But I think fundamentally the observation of the recommendation that we need to have a percentage that we shoot for, a revenue to expense is a good recommendation, and I agree with that. And as we go through this poster plan that Councillor Shank was talking about, the R and poster is recreation. And so part of that planning process is going to be what level of recreation programs do we need to provide? And parks programs and other things that the RET covers. And I think once you guys say this is the level of service we want to provide and whether it's swim lessons or whatever they are, those are expenses to that. And we'll be able to come back to you and say hey, this is the operating, I'm going to use their word subsidy for a second. That it takes. And then you guys can make a policy decision at that point. All that said, I think fundamentally the idea of we should have a goal to shoot for is right. We don't have that percentage and I think establishing it through the poster plans that are right way to do that. Well, I guess on the same vein, there's a proposal in the budget to change some part-time seasonal and full-time seasonal to full-time year-round. Correct. Right? Is that correct? Which the board was cautious on. Right. And so I'd like to hear from you Phil what the FAB's feeling was about, I mean, I own about the concern, was that tied into this 40% and being... Well, I believe in Clint, you can tell me where I'm wrong here. I believe in the budget that's part of the reason the 2016 budget went up is because I think they're converting one or two people to from whatever they call part time to full time or semi full time, but they're getting benefits and two people to from whatever they call part time to full time or semi full time but they're getting benefits and that just bumps the cost of everything up. Again, part of the least from my standpoint, I'm looking at it at the business standpoint, you have basically it's a rec center, it's operating and I realize that the town and everybody wants it but if you're looking at numbers it's gonna cost money to run it You know, right? So where do you want that to be if we're trying to hold it at 40% and you start putting people on to where they're getting benefits and everything You're gonna blow your budget so And and the FAB's I think recommendation and feel you can correct me if I'm wrong But it wasn't just to the rec center. There's a number of departments to transportation. Recreation also. Recreation or two where we're making that. And I think it comes down to a philosophical discussion. Again, with the council, managers, and then finance and the departments, we can run the organization with temporary staff, with the don't receive benefits. That is absolutely a potential to do that. And it comes down to levels of service, and is that what our goal is as an organization to run it as cheaply as possible? Or to be philosophically, do we say, you know what? If you're going to be working year round force, we think we have an obligation to provide a level of benefits for you. In the past, the council has kind of, we've got a number of different levels of benefit levels, from nothing to full and some steps in between. And this is taking the number of employees from, at least in the rec center, from nothing to some, and in the transportation department from some to a full benefit. There are operational benefits to it, there's recruitment benefits to it, there's retention benefits to it. And when we get to that part of the discussion, I'm happy to hear that. We've got it into the budget now, it's a balanced budget, we think we can afford it. I think the finance advisory board recommendation was, we understand it's affordable this year, that you really need to come up with a state of philosophy of when do you make that conversion and that's again I agree with that we need to rather than saying we can do it this year and it's good for us Having that kind of that policy statement of when do we make that conversion from from part time or full-time year-round or part time year-round full-time When do we make that what's what are those decision-making processes? And I think that's they're right on and I got to agree with that recommendation well coming those decision making processes and I think that's, they're right on and I got to agree with that recommendation. Well, coming back to the level of support from the town, which you say should come out of the consulting project for the poster. This should, the poster should do the same thing as to part time or full time with benefits. Well, it's in place in between. Because it's all part of, the reason I say that, it's all part of the amount of dollars that you come up with when you decide how much support the town wants to give a particular operation? Yes. So the way the budget works is, you know, as the charter requires that I propose a budget to you. And so I use the word I loosely when I say this is my proposal to you. But fundamentally, it wasn't a discussion of levels of service so much, but as policy of what level of benefit that we want to provide to employees and what's affordable and how do we benefit from that as a community and as an organization? For transportation, I can point to by taking positions from part time year round to full time, recruitment and retention becomes better period. And as the economy continues to recover, transportation positions, transit positions become harder to recruit for. And so if we can get ahead of the curve and take these positions from the lower benefit of position to the higher benefit of position, I became convinced by listening to the directors and their staff that this is a worthwhile endeavor at this time. And that's the transit discussion. Part time in recreation is a similar discussion, but that was the analysis. It wasn't trying to say, the FAB has to really hard question. They say, so how is the citizen going to know? I mean, how are they going to benefit from this? Are the buses going to be more on time, how are they going to benefit from this? Are the buses going to be more on time? Are the pool going to be better maintained? And my answer is, well, in such a way that we're going to have staff that stays longer, that we can recruit better talent and retain them longer, the answer would be yes. Am I going to be able to put a number on it? Probably not. Well, I understand that if you can retain people, then you're training your training costs go down. Right. However, there's different training requirements in my head anyway. Sure. They're different training requirements for transportation and there might be for their accident. Absolutely. So what what might be the right approach for one doesn't mean it's the right approach for all. I agree. Okay. And that's why I think, well, we've got before you, I think is very defensible and we can get into the detail of those. I think I know it's a balanced budget. We did that on purpose when we did the number. So I think it's the right move, but I think going forward, having a policy of when those conversions should and can occur is a good recommendation for me. I'm happy to move this and bring it back up again in your discussion later on. OK. When we get into health care cost, could you refresh my memory area? When do we get the penalty for having a 2018? And we're in the process right now of forming an employee committee with management and line level employees. And we're going to be starting the process of having the brokers come out, explain what it is that we're looking at facing, and what changes that we can recommend to get us down to the lowest level that we possibly can. We won't be able to avoid the excise tax altogether because of the premiums in the resort areas are just so much higher than they are say in like a Denver Metro. Are we considered a golden plan or a silver plan? Well we were looking at that was considering dropping down to the lowest level, which was the bronze plan. And even going to that one, we were still looking at a quarter million dollar excise tax. I know that there is some conversations a foot right now with the government finance officers, association, national league of cities that are talking to some of our congressional members about changes to that. Because that excise tax is only funding 25% of the total package, 75% they're assuming that employers are going to start dropping, covering their employees with health insurance. And so the federal government is making an assumption that the trade off is all the salaries are going to go up and if the salaries go up, they're going to be collecting more of the funding for the ACA through higher payroll taxes. I think there's probably some problems with that. And so I think the question is much bigger than the excise tax at this point. Can I ask you to take a step back? I think because I had a question on the The letter, you know the first letter where you mentioned something called the Cadillac Would you explain that to me just briefly? the Affordable Care Act puts a threshold put a threshold on what they think should be the premiums that employers should be paying for single coverage and family coverage. And they said, if you have a policy, regardless of what the coverage is or the benefits are, if they exceed these levels, then we think that you're offering what's called a Cadillac plant, your employees, meaning you're offering them greater benefits than the ACA Act is offering through their exchanges. And so therefore, we're going to tax you at 40% level for all of those premium costs that are above that. And when you're in an area like us in Steamboat and Vale where the premium costs that are above that. And when you're in an area like us in steamboat and veil where the premium costs are much higher. Even Glenwood. Even Glenwood is yeah they're so broken to the result. So the way the way the way the law is currently written it's about the dollar value of the of the health insurance. Correct. Not the level not not what the health insurance, not what the health insurance covers. Correct. Are we a, what are we 80, 20 plan? I haven't compared ours to what level it falls in, but it's probably one of the higher levels. Yeah, I did that last year. We were one of the higher level plans. And I know many of us employers have had to change our deductibles and our co-insurance to stay out of that tax. And I, you know, the last analysis we did with our brokers is even if we went down to the bare minimum plan that you're even allowed to go to under the ACA, you're still going to be subject to some level of the excise tax. And so looking at all of those options we're going to do as a group. Okay. Not fun. Okay. I got to move that. Okay. The other thing that was on here that you just should be aware of where it says the FAB supports keeping the housing money and the housing funds. That was only brought up because you had a housing bond that expired in 2014 that was 500,000. IE the housing fund does not have to pay that out anymore. Except that last year, or is it in this year's budget I believe 15 and 15 we took that 500,000 essentially came from that money was taken from the housing fund into the general in the general fund and then it was general in the general fund and then it was it was he's to drop something subsidy as a subsidy to the rec center or the to the rec center and not the rec center the rent fund excuse me but it helps out the rec center it was a transfer it's a transfer into there so essentially 500 thousand came bottom line 500 thousand came out of that housing fund and into the rent fund. That is not the budget to happen anywhere further because we believe it should be left in that housing bonds for future improvements that you have to make to those to the buildings that are under that. So that's why that's there. Okay. And I don't know if you have any more questions. There was one about the solid waste increasing by 5.2%. We just looked at that and said maybe you should look into why that's going up up so much. And you know we haven't done anything other than just recommend you look at that. You could look at going that and outside, comforting to bid on it versus what it costs the town to do that. That's pretty significant. That increase anticipates a meeting Ann was at with Picking County Solid Waste. Where they're talking about increasing the dump fees by $10 a ton, which is significant. They are working with them to try to see if they can't get those cost down, but that's what we've last been told. So that's what we put in the budget. We budgeted for the worst case in that instance. Most expensive case. instance, most expensive case. So when it comes to the solid waste removal, how are the individual bills to each resident calculated? Are they calculated based on the budget or are they calculated based on the calculated based on the budget or they calculated based on actual expense. Budget. Yeah. And what they anticipate they're looking at for the for the next year and expenditures. And when do you think when do you think you'll have an accurate cost or an accurate increase to the dump fees? In real life, it's dependent on the county and they would set those fees to their budget process. And so... Are they in that process now? Yeah, I mean, I don't know that perfect, but every government is in a budget process. And so- Are they in that process now? Yeah, I mean, I don't know that perfect, but every government's in a similar process. So, by the first of the year, they're going to- We would all- We would all- And the other municipalities to what- What the dump fee's going to be. Right, so they gave us a heads up. We accounted for that heads up. But whether they end up doing it or not, whether the Board of County Commissioners adopts that, is yet to be seen. So we've gone ahead and budgeted for the worst case. If it doesn't go up, we still have some expenses going up as far as personnel and those kind of standard annual expenses. And we'd say, all right, what does that increase need to be? And not to get too far in the weeds, but one of the projects we've got budgeted for next year is an evaluation to say you know what our fees write how should we be setting fees are the fees accurate and evaluate that evaluate the process we go through now and the last thing on there was the health care cost need to be monitored obviously that you've already discussed part of that. I have to do with the Cadillac plans and I'm assuming we don't see this but again you have to look at health care costs and look at all the different companies what the benefits are and look at that and see where you guys need to be budget wise. Well many of us are shopping paying our staff to go to Denver or to Grand Junction for health care with days off and cost of hotels and others given the cost of health care here in this wonderful valley. Right. Although it's no different no matter across the country a lot of it's because of the Obamacare deal. Well it's 50% at least 50% cheaper in Denver. And about 75% it's a Cascam to go to Denver or to go to Grand Junction and to do a local. So sometimes if we want to keep our premiums lower and we look at our experience ratings using local and then take those numbers and do the what if scenarios. I wouldn't have some of the problems we have with what our premiums are anticipated to go up. So we started doing it about three months ago and have had superb results from our employees. All right. That would think so. Yeah. A little driving but. A little driving but you know. Day off and, but. It'll driving, but you know. Day off and somebody's buying you a meal. There you go. So if anybody has any other questions of FAB, let me know. Thank you. Good job. Okay. Welcome. Appreciate it. Thanks, Phil. So I'm going to kind of step back just a couple steps and with the FAB, obviously got into a lot of detail and with a review and that you got their detailed recommendations back to you. I want to just kind of, I'm going to work through the memo real quick, hit at least the 10 points that the FAB talked about, make sure you're aware of them all, and then take any kind of questions or details, kind of things that you want to talk about. The first thing I want to talk about is in the first paragraph is, you know, here's the big picture. We're in a very financially secure position to Mary Ann and her staff's credit. We have consistently over the years spent less than we've brought in, we've underestimated revenues, overestimated expenses, and we are in a strong financial position. Going forward, when we put this budget together, we took very similar approaches to that. And so I think, when we're at this things, I think that I was trying to look at the budget from the big stuff to the little stuff. They all count. But the big thing is it's a balanced budget. The operating expenses are less than the operating revenues. And we've got a lot of capital projects planned. And that's a good step going forward. If you wanted to look at the policies, they're on page 50 or 28 of your electronic packet. But they're not a whole ton of rocket science, honestly. It's government management or business management 101. It's been less than you make, you know, evaluate those types of issues and those are the kind of things that the town's been doing for at least 10 years, if not longer. But as we go forward, one of the things that I think we'll be working with with our own staff and of course the FAB is, you know, how do we identify one-time funds, one-time costs, some of these policies that we talked about today going forward. You know, when do we, when we promote employees to different classifications, when should that happen? And you know, potentially the, the cost recovery of cost recovery of the RET fund and recreation in particular. These can be some budget philosophies that we add to this list to make sure that we're budgeting towards. And this is just something I think the council needs to pay attention to because this is the big picture stuff that when we're developing a budget that we're trying to make sure that we're meeting these big goals. And so if there's other things that you all want to pay attention to, it's something to think about and give us good feedback on. And this is the stuff that affects the overall premise of the budget and you want to make sure we're hitting that. Next, I'm going to jump down to the second paragraph a little bit. One of our single largest source of revenue, about 35% of that revenue is sales tax revenue. This year we're projecting the sales tax increase to be around 5% or so. You know, our crystal balls is good as your crystal ball. We're trying to be relatively conservative in that, but we're pretty confident with that number. For 16, what we're estimating going forward is a 3% increase over that 5%. So it's a 3% is a conservative number somewhat. It's a slower growth rate that we've had in the last year or this current year, but we think we can make it. If you look at a lot of different factors, we think we're on it, but I would not say it's, I think it's a good number. I wouldn't say we're being necessarily conservative on it, or taking any kind of over risk with it. I think it's a solid number we can depend on going forward. I wanted to point out, I think it's page 47 on your electronic version. I'm going to go to a quick mixture. I'm not leading you straight. This is a chart. Mary Ann puts together, but I think it's pretty telling, especially for some of the new council members. It's where we get our sales tax revenues from. And if you look on that bottom line, that's the blue line. That's the sales tax revenue that comes from sales inside the village, inside Snowmass Village. That red line is sales tax revenue we receive from outside the village. It's a shareback, it's required by the county. And the majority of those sales, of course, speculating, but pretty confident, a speculation occur in the city of Aspen. So why we look at our sales tax revenues and what happens locally is of course important. You can see by this line, we get nearly twice as much, not quite revenue from outside the town, as inside the town. So, whatever we can do to grow. So if some of that is a sherbet based on what we get also in the town. Right. whatever we can do to grow. Some of that is a share of egg based on what we get also in the town. Right. But I mean, fundamentally. There is a 22 and the one year looking at a 47 and the one that I don't know, a 22. Yeah, we got it here. Yeah. Sorry. I'm sorry. That's fine. 47 electronically if you're looking at the electronic page. The only issue I even bring this up is whatever we can do to improve our blue line is what we can do locally. The red line is largely, there is a percentage of that that's generated here that we get back from the county of course, but the majority of that is from outside and it's something that we don't control directly, but why we need to pay attention to regional issues. So okay, so this is helpful. The county tax, when I read county that county, anything that says county tax line, is the revenue we're getting from the county, which is dollars that could be spent anywhere in the county and we just get a certain percentage back Yeah, it's a complicated formula because it's broken out in many different ways. I didn't bring the The breakout with no I don't need the This is that's that's the fundamental right there. That's the sharp That's why I want to get that in front of you just to make sure that so when when somebody does leave here and goes in shops In Aspen or the ABC or whatever, we don't get the three in a general funds 1%, or we don't get the sales tax back as much, but we still do get some level of benefit from it, with through that county sales tax. Share it back. As long as we're just talking about revenue, if you electronically, if you go back one page to page 46, I'm not going to go through all this. This is the general fund breakdown of all the different revenue sources. You can see the sales tax there. It's a big blue chunk transfers, all those kinds of things. You can see that. I just point this out. It's kind of the big picture view of what's making the general fun happen and where all the revenue has come from. Because the blue that sales tax is the biggest chunk, I just want to make sure that you all had a level of comfort with a percent increase, that 3% recall them for next year. If in fact you knew something that we don't know and said, oh, it's going to be way higher, or if you knew something we didn't know and say it's going to be way lower, again, that's a good policy issue for you guys to make sure that you're comfortable with, because that is a, that is a, that does affect things going forward and making sure that we are in fact, presenting a balanced budget to you. If you guys are okay with that, I'll keep talking. I can hit this. The biggest issue with the budget in my mind is, I can be as complicated as you want as you need to be. There's books written on the stuff, and they're fascinating books. That's the Travis. He reads them all. He's read one. He got it a degree in it. But I don't know why I felt the need to pull you out on that one. But this is the chance for us to put our money where our mouth is and really in my mind to make sure that we're hitting the goals that the council set out. So you know, I in this cover letter I purposely put in some words in here to make sure that you guys remember the goals that you adopted in March of this year between connectivity, sustainability, the capital improvement program, the housing program, all those types of things. I wanted to just kind of do a quick reminder of, when we're developing the budget, these goals that you identified earlier is really the framework that we're trying to hit. Did we hit everything? Probably not, but we really were trying to hit the big chunks in the development of this thing. And I think we did an okay job of that, actually. I think we did a pretty good job of it. What was really, really assuring, and I wanted to point this out in the budget letter just to make sure that everybody had a level of comfort with how we're spending our money is. The council came through in March, identified these one, two, three, seven goals overarching goals for the town to head towards. And then in June and July of this year, we did the citizen survey, and the citizen survey came out with the six over arching goals, that there's six top priorities. And the fact that there was so much overlap between the identified goals of the council, and the citizen goals that were identified, I mean, I think that provided a very high level of confidence that were going down the path that you as elected officials that are spending the time and thoughtful about it are being very reflective of what you're hearing from the community. And that's when we put this budget together like this, I think it really added that we're trying to hit a lot of these big ticket issues because of the direction of receiving from both these documents. And I just wanted to make sure you knew that's when we're making decisions, these are the criteria that we're using and trying to figure out what's getting funded, what's not getting funded, those types of things. So with all that, I want to kind of jump into a couple specific issues. We talked about some of them with Phil already, so I can talk in more detail if you'd like. But the first one, and this is a blip on my part, and I apologize, is the general fund balance. And that should have been number one, I'm on page two of the letter to you guys. You know, the second page of the letter to you all. I've got four items right there. I wanted to make sure I touched base with you on the touch to talk about. And I completely blinked putting on this one one the number one issue should have been the increase in the general fund balance from 17% to 25% 16% To 25% Um, if you go to page 35 the electronic version and I'm gonna flip that real quick. It could give me a second 35 of 112. On the electronic and I don't. There's there's a this is the chart I wanted to show you that what's the page number on that chart that you're looking at. This one, 35 in your packet. I guess I should stay with 35. I'm not looking for it in the packet. I'm actually looking for it because the way granic is broke this up, it broke it up into four different places. So it's hard to get when you say the electronic version. Obviously, I did it on I annotate, so I get a different, sorry. So on the red. So just whatever the page number is. 35. But the four pieces that brought up to our stolen page. Yeah, no, no, I know. So anytime we're talking about a piece from the presentation, whatever the number of the page number on there presentation is will show up on easy to find a grant. So this is page 35, right? No, no, it's page 10. It's page 10. No, it's not page 10. It's page 10 on the slide. So, yeah, I see this. OK, so page 10. Like the package, it's page 10. But on I legislated 10. We will convert this. We're having a whole lot of fun. I just like to make a really fascinating issue, more deciding, exciting by St. Well, there's a page number. Okay. The slide number should be on the bottom there. It sounds like yours is calling you. Yeah. Yeah. And Brandy, for those of us who have eye problems, you'll have to tell us what page. You haven't got your glass. I'm on the right page. Okay. So what you're seeing here is the blue line is the operational reserve and the red line is basically the funds available. And you can see the reserve was set lower in previous years and going into 15. You can see the reserve. It increased from 14 to 15 because of the direction from the council to take it from whatever it was at to 16%. Anyhow, and then, but then again, going forward to see it going from that percentage up to 25%. And really the major effect you're going to see is that funds available going down. And so the dollars aren't changing. All the dollars are still there, but we're trying to reserve some dollars back just in case. And so the funds available, that red fund is basically things that we can apply to capital projects. Pick any kind of project, anything you wanted to get done, that red line is those dollars available to get the things done. So, well, I wanted to point this chart out because it sounds great to take the reserve from 17 or 16 to 25 There is an effect to it and the effect is those funds available shrink and I just as a policy I want to make sure that you guys saw that and we're aware of it I'm confident in the recommendation. I'm very confident it's the right way to go But I because does reduce some of the ability to get some of the bigger projects done If we're aiming to do it with cash on hand because the cash on hand available shrinks them But it does reduce some of the ability to get some of the bigger projects done if Raine and the do it with cash on hand because the cash on hand available shrinks them Yeah, that's just a little concerning But we don't know what all those projects are I mean earlier we saw a CIP Proposed of north of 80 million if I remember right? Correct, that's the five year. The five year plan. And the question, if we were to do, let's say, even 40 million of those, are you looking at funds coming from within the town or looking at bonding? So I'll be honest, what we've focused on this year is to get through 16, to get a budget put in place for 16 and we need to work on financing for 17 out. And my short answer would be, I'm gonna try and tailor the CIP so that it can be funded with existing revenues. I think if you guys came back, as the council said, X, Y, Z project is important and we need to get it done sooner than we can otherwise afford, then that necessitates a different kind of financing but it needs to be kind of a politically driven thing or if we came back and said it's a safety issue we need to address it we don't have the dollars of course we would do that but it's really I think when we're identifying these projects through the CIP through the CCP through the poster I'm gonna throw as many acronyms as I can into this. If you guys came back and said, hey, we really want to get this thing done in two years. And I'm going to say, you know, right today we've got, you know, pick your year, but we've got, you know, roughly two and a half, three million dollars available, any one year, we can spend that down to zero and still have a very respectable reserve and be very comfortable. But if that project was more than that amount, we had to look, we could look at different financing. And it could be bonds, it could be a tax increase. We could, we've got another of the varieties. You've got, you've got grant sources out there we could tap into. And we've got other funding sources with our own, with our own budget, so we could work towards, whether it's marketing, funds or whatever. Again, depending on what that project is and what we're trying to tackle. And the real impact of moving to the 25% actually happens in 2015 because you can see that the blue line stays relatively steady. It's only increasing by the budgeted increase in the revenues. You can see when you go from 15, the red bar down to 16, that decrease is really due to the transfer, to the CIP for that, that was about a million dollars out of that funds available that we transferred to the CIP to cover those projects. And then there's another 700,000 that we're using towards one time expenditures, which is also detailed in your packet. So that's the big decrease there. Well, that's wonderful. That becomes the big decrease in each year going forward. Would be the one times after that. Because the CIP is too, no? Well, the CIP we're only showing projects right now in 2016 because we haven't completed the evaluation for the rest of the projects or the continuation of the projects from 17 to 20. We have them. We know what they are, but we haven't vetted them yet. So the red line, the funds available for 17 through 20 don't don't incorporate any capital projects. They would just have any one time items that are budgeted. They would just have but one time items. So the one-time items are in those years are substantial, a substantial amount of the total of one time and CIP in 2016. In 2016, there's 770 and then it looks like it's about 200,000 in 17 and 150,000 in 18. So roughly. Well, then there's something I'm missing, Mary. And because in 17. I don't know. It just, it doesn't look like there's, it doesn't look like there's $700,000 different. Yeah, and there's other things that happen within the funds. For instance, if the table reserve has to increase because revenues have increased, that's going to pull out of those funds available. Or if you have another reserve account like we fund the building and equipment reserve. So when we have to put in our annual contributions, that will pull out of the funds available as well. Okay, thank you. Yes. So, since we're talking about this, let's just project that the entryway project comes sooner than later. The CIP balance we currently have, I'm anticipating, could not cover the entryway project. It depends on what you're doing. I mean, if it's more than 3 million, you're right. Exactly. But I think that's what this post plan, I think one of the big findings of this post plan needs to be, you know, we talked about it today with some of the stakeholders. What's the prioritization? Is the prioritization, you know, green talked about it today with some of the stakeholders. What's the prioritization? Is the prioritization, you know, green space? Is it physical space for swimming pools? Is it rodeo space? Is it, you know, a combination of all the above, trails, whatever. And then so once we know what those priorities are, then there's dollars in the budget to come back next year and actually do a physical design for that property. And then we could tell you what the dollar amount is for sure. And then there's some other things. We could, there's a lot of opportunities to do some rearranging and whatnot. But yeah, if we're looking at a $20 million project, my answer is unequivocally, yes, you're right, we can't do it. For talking three, three and a half. Right. I'm the last way to figure out how we're going to get there. Right. Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to jump to the next issue if that's all right. And this is a little less exciting. Or this one's equally exciting. But it's the CIP. You know, the council had the gave us a direct kind of direction to kind of develop the CIP. The council's looked at it specifically previously. We can go to it. It's on page, you know, an easiest one to look at is page 37. Oh, you want to go to the full projects? Well, isn't that, that's going to be the easiest to get them all. Sure. If you just look at page 37, which is page, it's page 12 of this PowerPoint. And I'm combining two slides here just so you don't we don't have to go to the state's same slide drama. But the CIP is its capital improvement program and it's our opportunity to kind of invest in the town, figure out where those investments need to happen. The slide that I'm showing you shows a combination of capital improvement projects and what Mary Ann has been referring to is one time projects. So this has got a lot of information on one sheet, but it's one that's really important for you all to pay attention to because it's got a lot of the projects that affect you directly. You'll see as elected officials getting done and this is a lot of the stuff that you get talked to about. I'm going to back up a step. Earlier this year, the council authorized staff to start and gave us dollars to start the poster plan and the CCC plan. Our goal is to have that done relatively early next year, spring and summer of next year. Out of those two plans, we fully expect there to be recommendations to spend dollars on improvements to brush creek pedestrian costings. That was one of the direct issues brought to us by the council. And on trails projects, trails are important. It was identified by the council in this in this if you when you go through this You'll see we have dollars allocated, but we don't have projects allocated and a good example. I think is this So there's 70 you go down to that roads and streets, and even above that, $95,000, we have two lumps of dollars in here to go ahead and start tackling. I'm on this sheet here to start tackling the issues. I'm not, at this point, we're not specifically identifying them and we're doing that on purpose because when the projects come out of these planning efforts, we want to be able to say, we heard you. Here's how we're tackling it and we want we have the dollars that decide to do that. So like I said, if you look at the budget here, we've got $95,000 set of side for trail improvements, which we expect would come out of either the CCP or the poster and then we've got $75,000 for road crossings. We have a specifically, it says, brush creek road. You know, we'll see what comes out. There might be something on Owl Creek or somewhere else that we got to identify. But those are some big dollars that we want to make sure that you and that we heard you log and clear that, hey, we're hearing it. These are the dollars. Can't tell exactly where they go next year, but we fully expect this expenditure to be guided by once the adoption of the plan is completed. We can get the jobs going. The question for you a few weeks ago, we also talked when related was here about art, the art walk and really beginning to plan community art and placement thereof. Is that part of the poster or how can we begin to look at a strategic plan on getting our to this town? Well lots of different ways. I mean I think we have the sob. I think the sob should probably lead the effort. Well that's the effort but they got hasn't funding. So you know if it's I mean it depends on how complicated or comprehensive you want to get with it. I mean if you wanted to say let's just say you wanted to get a more comprehensive look at the thing similar to the poster and the CCP yeah then we should put some dollars in here to get that to get that underway. If it was a matter of hey we want to put some we don't know what exactly we want but we know we want to get some art we want to you know direct the sob to get some matching funds for that. Yeah, this is a good opportunity to put some dollars in the budget. I think we need to, way back when we used to put 50 or $80,000 into the budget every year for art. And we took it out in 2008. Actually put in, it was $5,000. Okay, is that's what it was I was able to fund? It did get to $20,000 in one year because the previous years they didn't spend that $5,000. So that's probably what you're referring to. I love us because quite frankly, I do think we have some capacity to perhaps look at a strategic update of what is of the art walk. Where are the weaknesses, where are the strengths, and began to plan accordingly, but we need money. I know, Leslie, you've thought about the art walk as well. I have, and I've talked to some people on the advisory committee about that. And I mean, I guess the money that related is supposed to give us. Third? Oh, I know where you're going. Well, that part of that we said was for things like art, public art. I don't think there's consensus at the council. Well, that was one of the discussions that wasn't going to go into the general fund that it was going to be used for things example art. So I'm just wondering like how that would factor in to money that you're saying we need to set aside for. Well, I tell you where my thinking was, we've got a great opportunity through the budget to have a placeholder. And the number, I don't know what a plan update could be, it could be $10,000, it could be $30, it could be $ be, it could be 10,000, it could be 30, it could be 50, it could be five. I think it'd be great if SOB could get back with us. Well they sent me their last strategic plan that was done many years ago. It's really old. Yeah, it's really old. And one thing I said is that if you want to do an update, maybe they need to come and make a presentation to us and then similar to kind of what we did with Discovery, maybe we could somehow create, you know, they have some money in their budget, maybe we can pull some money from somewhere else and let them get an updated plan going, given what's going to be going on in the base and all the changes that have happened in the village and all the new spaces like town park and stuff like that. I probably, do we need to put a placeholder in? Yeah, it's just a great time. It's exactly why we do this. There's something that you say, hey, we want to tackle something like this. This is the time to be telling us so we can roll these things in for sure. Can we put a place holder in there? Let's say 30,000. How about eight? I don't know. I don't know what. I mean, here's what I'm saying. I mean, it depends on how it's comforting. I mean, if you're looking for opportunities to place it and identify that and to figure past forward, I mean, I think we got some talent on staff that can help. We've got landscape architecture. Yeah, it's good. I think you live. But I mean, I think there's some direction, if that's the consensus, the council has come up with a number and get it in here. Let me work with Julian and her staff to figure out what that number might be. That's fair. I think that's very fair. And I know she's mentioned it to me, and that's why I think it's a lot less than 30. I think it's close to 80. But that's, I mean, I'm not that I'm brilliant in this stuff. I just know that she mentioned that number time. You remember those numbers? And I wish I did. Yeah. But yeah, no, that's exactly why we go through that. If there's issues like that, you'd like to prioritize and make sure that we're addressing. That's what we want to know. And we've got the dollars. I mean, to digress for a second, Roodi, Reservoir, and zebra mussels. I've gone ahead and put those dollars in there. I think that's what I've seen. So I mean, but yeah, if there are some of those kind of things, I need to make sure that everybody buys off on it, and that the council of course agrees to it, as you have to adopt this by resolution next month. But that's the kind of stuff that we need to make sure that it's way easier for us to plan for now and have you prioritize all these issues in one time and come back mid-year and have to do it mid-year. So I just take a look at your pointing out the roads and streets and we've got 92 allocated for the Fairway 3 bike path and also 95 for the hard surface and trails. What's the what's the what's the priority under the hard surface and trails? I don't know yet. I think yeah I was I don't know that I expect that to come out of the poster and I was in reading this again, you know, we could come out and say, you know, it's got to be soft surface. Maybe soft surface is the higher priority than hard surface. And I think we need to figure that out through the poster. But I mean, there are a number of trails that we haven't touched in years. Some of them are your bad. That need to be overlayed and need to be corrected. But, you know, I think that we need to hear if the poster plan a little bit about a better off fixing what we got or buildings new. I'm guessing that people can understand the importance of investing in what you've already got to maintain it. But I think a little bit of those. And the Fairway 3 was a budgeted trail for 2015, but I think because of easements, they couldn't get done this year, so it was rolled into 2016. So there was 95 from last year essentially. 92-117 was the amount. Yeah, that's the fairway. And so we continue to, our trail is not on our property, and we need to get easements given to us before we go and fix our trail. And we haven't been able to finalize that deal yet and so it's been a priority for a couple of years but we just haven't been able to close the deal and doing it. We've got the dollars, we're confident that the dollar amount's going to repay. If you've been on it, we've pulverized the trail so it's, it looks like, doesn't matter, it looks like loose gravel basically but we know we need to get in there. We just need to get the easements in place so that we can, oh, we can be on that property making those improvements. I can go to the be hard surface or soft surface. I mean, is there another line on it for soft surface? You know, I would, I would, I'm not. We can just change the name of the line. I think it should be hard surface. I think we should be hard surface. We can leave it at trail improvements. I think it would be probably most accurate to figure out what that prioritization is. Because I know Ted has sagebrush coming into fix the North Rim. How does that get? Where does that come out of the budget? That is happening. Is this the Picking County Open Space? Sorry, money. It's the $25,000 on the screen show. That's this year, though. That's next year. That's this year. That's in the 15 budget. So there was space in the budget for that? Yeah. Yeah. We don't bring projects forward unless we can pay for it. So yeah, absolutely. That's happening this year. And so what this is going to be is a prioritization for next year. And what we're trying to say is how do we keep these projects going forward? And I know, and you're going to catch me a little bit short-sighted on this window, but when we know what those projects are coming forward, we're trying to find those splits. And then as long as you guys are OK with the dollars, then I work with the Ted or Andy or whoever to work with Open Space and say, what's the right split for, say, connection from North Rim down to Ditchline. And they're familiar to me. They've obviously given to these numbers none of these numbers are secrets internally or externally for that matter and they know what we're working with and then they start working with their counterparts to make sure the dollars are better to complete the project but that's not coming out of roads and streets right yeah that road and streets is mostly just that's just to try to bunch them stuff together. So no, it's, it, it could, that could easily go up to that land and land improvements or we could call it park improvements. That's, that's the main title title. And then in the, in the, uh, bolded is our subcategories that and developed in order to help keep track of projects and where they're going. Okay. Yeah, I mean, it's just that we're just trying to find ways to kind of group projects and that's what we came up with. I have a question on that 800,000 on that wood road roundabout. Yes. That number was negotiated ages ago. Yes. Do we have to consider an accelerator on those numbers? An appreciation number at all? Our numbers flat and the project completions on the applicant not on us. And so any growth in that project cost is on the applicant, not on us. One, I might touch on just one project real quick, but because it came up in the FAB, but the utilities, the snow melt implementation design, we've got some, there's a $115,000 project. Snow melt road is, you know, a series of, he did by a series of boilers. I think four sets, if I remember right. Some of them are older, some of them are newer. Some of them work great, some of them work less than great. And our as efficient as possible. But the boiler systems, it's something that the EABs identified as an opportunity for energy efficiency gains. And so what this design project is, is to figure out what needs to be improved and help us understand what's the order of improvement that's most efficient and effective. Some of our older stuff works really well and we don't have any problems with it. And some of the things that we have backups on that we don't, do work well, and I'm sorry, I'm sorry, back that up. Some of the things we do have backups on don't work as well and some of the projects we don't have backups on have been working brilliantly. And so we need to go through an evaluation of figure out how best do we organize snow melt road. So we know there's gonna be improvements in the future. We know those are significant improvements or costly and we wanted to get the design done early so that we could understand, you know, future scheduling of those costs out in future CIPs. I'm just kind of giving through this one other issue I want to kind of touch on for a second because we've been talking about them a lot is we've got $200,000 in here for the community plan update. By code we have to update the plan every several years I believe it's every two years. What our hope is is that we can get through the CCP and the poster plan, you know, early half of the year, and then those have been become good, you know, good, awkward, good input into the overall community plan. We've got $200,000 in it. We consider this to be a significant undertaking of the community plan. I thought was assuming base field is approved, a lot of things will be set there. We know what that's going to be going forward. It'll be a good opportunity for us to look at the rest of the village, either commercially or residentially, and see what that vision needs to be for the rest. And so by finishing those two plans early in the year, this is a project we expect to happen much later in the year, once they're settled down, and we know what that input looks like, and then start that public input process with the community. So it's almost not just an update that planning commission does first. We're talking about a significant- Yeah, we're required to do a read-write every two, I don't know if the terminology is, but it's a significant review every two years. You haven't really dealt a lot with it. The last major one was about 10. Yeah, I was really starting about 8 from what I understand as I've explained to me. Very true. And so they take time. And what we're saying is this is again a recommendation that you guys need to be comfortable with is let's kick this off at the end of 16 and get this process underway. And they do take a while. My guess is to take a little short of a year, probably to get it through, to get all the appropriate input that we need and whatnot. We've got that whole dollar amount budgeted in 16. That's our best guess of cost today, but we haven't gone out for RFPs or anything along the lines. But the consultants would adjust the scope of service as back to the dollars available at this point at that point. I'm trying to think there's anything else you want to touch based on that was significant in the list. We're making a number of improvements to parking programs or ability to enforce our parking programs. GIS, geographic information systems is a very typical program the most local governments have and can offer a lot of information and operationally and lots of ways for community ours is fledgling right now it's started but we haven't really got it up the ground and what we're trying to do is get that modern technology implemented in the whole organization. It's an expensive kickoff but it's one that's supported by most operating departments. I mean, everybody, I mean, all operating departments really, I mean, are here saying, yeah, they can benefit public works, parks and recreation, planning, and a three right off the top that can benefit immediately. And then as we get this program up and going, we'll have opportunities to use them in all the other departments as well. But it's a big cost. We know that, but it's something that we believe is an investment in the organization that needs to happen. You know, we had SGM to do, to come back on the project that we spent what, $100, $150,000 on last year. They came back with some recommendation. It was the money that came out of the Holy Cross Fund for a significant study. That's the NBCX. Okay, so that's 264. No, that's 115. Okay. I think Anne's coming back with a presentation. I think in two weeks you're getting kind of the overview of the update of where we're at. But this is the big issue that we're trying to tackle next year but on that way, under that path is this snow melt. And it's the SGM, which is our engineering firm that we hire, did the analysis on a number of ways for us to save energy and be more energy efficient. The EAB is really kind of haunted at trying to prioritize that. And this suggestion and bringing a product. The EAB is really kind of haunt you of that, trying to prioritize that. This suggestion and bringing a product to the EAB and the EAB, our Environmental Advisory Board said this is a good priority and it's a good use of dollars to get this thing up and going, considering how much we spend on utilities. I'm going to flood this one, like I've flood everything else tonight, but over $300,000 a year, we spend on heating swimmer road. So yeah, probably between 250 and 300. But quarterly in bucks, we spend on heating that road. And if you've got a chance to improve that efficiency, it's a good opportunity for us. So if you guys are okay with CIP, actually, the big one is the phase two of the housing. Oh, phase two housing. Thank you. That is the big chunk. Thank you. So right now we obviously have been re-having our employee housing units. This is a continuation of that project up the hill. It's a $3.2 million estimate. As we talked about earlier, we have paid off some debt. We do have the dollars in place for it. This will take a lot of our reserves down to their minimum levels. Why the time we get this done? But talking with Joe, his estimation, this is the highest priority to make sure all those units get the exterior we have that will be completed by this year. And the debate internally, when we go through this, so you can kind of get some inside baseball is are we better off rehabbing or better off building new? And there's benefits to both. Do you let your old stuff get older? Do you build your new stuff? And there's pros and cons on both sides of course. But our end of the evaluation was, these units that we've got, this is an investment that's gonna add, you know, roughly 20 years to this project. At the end of 20 years, they might be done. They're probably not gonna be able to read it at that point, but this is a good investment to keep these units up and going and going forward, and at that point, all the town on units, all the rental units on that side of the road will be completed going forward. Some of this costs went up a little bit from our earlier estimates because there's a lot of site work associated with this. It's not the project we've got underway now. It's mostly rehab on the buildings themselves. There's tremendous amounts of drainage issues up there that's been explained to me that are kind of driving the cost of this. But we're comfortable with the bids we're getting and the rates we're seeing. We won't start work on it until the budget's approved, but we're anticipating going with the same kind of contract we've got now and just keeping the project rolling forward to get a completion on it. So this project will probably will start next spring. If you guys approve it, yes. Exactly. And which buildings? I didn't bring my cheat sheet with me, but it's palisades. Thank you. Palisades and brush creek. We'll both be done next year. Yeah. Look, this 3.2 will finish off all our stuff up there. Now, the owner, you know, the deed restricted units that we don't own, that's, we don't do those. Those are up to the ownership to do that, but this will complete our projects up there. So just so I know how fast I need to talk, you want to go to tell 630 on this or 7 or what time, what's my, what's, when am I getting the cane to get off this thing? What when you're done really all right we're not going to be here until nine okay now I'll keep talking I mean he's actually hitting all the highlights of the budget and so we don't need to go through this page by page but I can hit any pages that you guys want to hit when he's completed so yeah as long as I just didn't want anyone falling asleep on me saying, anybody want anything to eat? There's a lot of food over here. You won't offend me if you get up and walk around. I get it. You're okay, Alyssa. Yeah. Bill, you need to take a break. You need a break, or you need to take a break at around six? Great. I'll keep talking. So the next one, this is again something I think. Take care. Take care of that, Graham, baby. Thanks, Phil. Thanks, Phil. Thanks, Phil. Capital Equipment Replacement Fund, we call it the Surf, is another thing we're implementing in the 16 budget. What that is is essentially for vehicle replacement. In years past, the amount of dollars we need to allocate the vehicle replacement of spike to gone down and spike to gone down, depending on the type of vehicles and the amount of vehicles that we're doing. You know, four buses one year, a road grade or the next, nothing the next two years, a couple of cop cars or whatever. What we're trying to do with this process is flatten out the amount of dollars that we need to set aside annually for vehicle replacement. Brandy's at the page. I can't see that far. Yes. What page is it? Surface at the very end of the budget. So it's just before the CIP. My page is 108. 84. My page is 108. 84 out of it. So really this is what all we're trying to do is level out our expenses every year. And so what will happen is we will be saved aside the dollars necessary. We've done a analysis for 20 years of replacement. Yeah, it goes out. I mean, I'm going to say roughly 20 years of replacements. And we know what that needs to be We've determined with that out of the escalation for inflation on vehicles and whatnot And so we know what those total costs over the year and we instead of trying to spike it and drop it every year in order to budget Easier for us and to make sure our budget's remaining a little more stable We've gone ahead and created a surf program So we put a set a dollar amount aside annually and that way when the vehicles need to be replaced they can do that. The other benefit of this is in years past when we've done it with the spike kind of valley method, we've waited until later in the year to purchase the vehicles because we want to make sure the dollar showed up. By going to the surf program we're going to have a much higher level of confidence and we're going make sure the dollar showed up. By going to the surf program, we're gonna have a much higher level of confidence and we're gonna have the purchases happen earlier in the year so that they can be on the road by the end of the year. For some of these buses, for some of the trash trucks, it takes an extraordinary amount of time to get them through the bid process, built, delivered, and here. And so we think this is just going to improve the overall acquisition of vehicles force it's not really a cost savings but what it does for the budgets that flattens it out and we think that's going to save it going forward or make a little bit more effective going forward so they finance to they paid cash So if you're that's not the most exciting one but I want to make sure you knew what we're doing that I'm going to jump to the number three This is the one that Phil touched on for a few minutes This is the transfer of a hundred fifty thousand dollars from the marketing fund to the general fund to pay for expenses General fund expenses I'm going I'm on my letter. I'm sorry. Oh, okay. Here on the letter. Yeah. We don't have a chart for this. We could show you the revenue sheet. It's in the budget. But this is more of a philosophy kind of thing that is new this year. That again, a policy that we're proposing want to make sure you've got a level of comfort with. But by bringing events to town, there are direct expenses to the general fund operating departments. And we explored a number of different alternatives by setting aside dollars and letting those operating departments build to that account. So there's a direct dollar amount and we went through a number of them. And what we said is for this first year, let's identify a reasonable number that we know that cost the general fund are support these events? And that's the $150,000 number. We show it as a revenue coming into the general fund. And then we made sure that the operating departments, transportation, police, roads, parks and recreation have got the revenues on their side in order to offset whatever expenses they've got. It's a way to make sure that the marketing fund was created to produce these events, to make sure that It's a way to make sure that the marketing fund was created to produce these events, it's a way to make sure the marketing fund, in fact, is paying its fair share of producing the events. So it's not a direct bill to the marketing, so police is not sending for every... At the marketing, no. Okay. That makes a one transfer of the more sales. In the part of the philosophy is it's all us. We're all on we're all on the same team. Yeah, it's just a lot of paperwork. And so let's just pick a number that's fair. We'll evaluate it at the end of 16. We'll see how good it works. We might need to adjust up. I'm pretty confident we're not going to need to do a just down since we picked a lower end number. But we'll see how it works. And hopefully, look at a lot of the financing between departments settled. And we can all work to making sure that we're doing what we need to be doing to have the events be as successful as possible. This was talked about the marketing board. And I think there seemed to be, I don't want to say, general support. And it wasn't a big issue. I mean, as Mary Ann pointed out, they were paying a lot of these expenses already, so it's not $150,000 jump. It's closer to a 60 or $70,000 jump. And it's simply more reflective of the cost of the events. It's what they cost. So let's make sure we're covering it. And then the last, that number four right there, I would just touch base on for a second. Two years ago, or the in 15 we paid off a set of housing bonds and that revenue is a fill pointed out was the council allocated that to the rep fund offset recreation expenses last year. With the council's goal, with this council's goal of, hey, we need to focus on housing, it's important. We said, well, one of the easier ways to focus on housing is make sure all housing revenue goes towards housing. So it's a pretty easy recommendation in this budget to say if it's generated by housing it should stay in housing and that's going to generate an extra $500,000 going towards projects. That's just in 16 all those are going towards paying for that 3.2 million dollar renovation but going forward it will start to generate more money for other projects. There are other housing bonds getting paid off soon. Yeah, there's another 500,000 in the Mountain View 1 bonds that gets paid off at the end of 2016 and then in 2017, the Mountain View 2 bonds get paid off and that's roughly another 170,000 or so. So by, in two years roughly, we'll have a, we'll be generating a million dollars so we can be putting towards these kinds of projects. And again, whether we, you know, use that to bond with or we just save up the cash and do cash projects, I think that's a decision to be made later probably once we identify the projects. But the big decision for you guys is, yep, this is a good way to support housing. Let's keep it in housing and we'll start identifying projects and this will be, it's the appropriate funding source to get those projects done. Two questions. One of which is several years ago, we looked at a project up here in the draw space. Yep. ago we looked at a project up here in the draw space. Yep. Do we anticipate that we're going to have to build more housing very soon? Yes. I think, I don't want to speak for Joe but I'm going to. I mean when base village goes through there's going to be more employees here and the demands there. Our right now are waiting list depending on the time of years between 1500 people to get into our rental units and in our for sale units have been going fast there's been more than one or two people at least in each of our last lotteries and so depending on how you want to measure demand there's lots of ways to do that but I'm confident in telling you there's demand for both rental and be restricted for properties. So at what point in time are we as a town ever going to address the issue of aging in place and dealing with existing property, town property where people are retiring in their space that has been town spaces. So we can begin to move that program forward. I think my short answer is you guys have scheduled a workshop in November, sometime in November, early November. And that's I think that's when we start the discussion. Joe is going to be here to walk you through our current policies, how we got where we are, walk you through our numbers. We've got this many units, our waiting list are this. Here's how we decide how people get in. Here's where we see the demand to be. Here's what we see coming up. We'll talk about their renovation versus construction issue and just start kind of filling in on a lot of these issues. Do we have a sense of the demographics of people in our existing stock? I don't know that I don't know if we keep that or not. I don't know. I think it'd be helpful. Obviously there's a whole process we need to go through. And I would anticipate that not only we should be interested, I think Picking County is very interested in this whole issue as we're continuing to see more people retire here in Aspen and Snowmass. Well, I mean, and you guys identified, you know, I don't remember the goal exactly, but you know, it's 30 years old. Let's evaluate where we're at, where we've done well, where we can change what we need to be improved upon. And what this budget process is doing is identifying, all right, let's make sure we're saving dollars. So what we've got, we're doing well. In the next two years, we'll be generating an extra million dollars that we can put towards this. I don't know what the solution is today, but by you guys agreeing with these policies, we'll have some revenues and some resources to put towards the solution, whatever it is we identify. And I think that discussion starts, it's at the November workshop, whatever that day is. It is November. What's the line? How do you go November and the Knights? So everyone's okay with that one, I'm assuming. So I'm going to keep going down the list here then. And I'm just going down the letter. And we can explore whatever other issues we need to jump on to. But this has to do with, this is more of an FYI than anything and may or may not present an opportunity for future financing of issues or not. But right now we've got, I don't want to read this to you, we've got the .75 mill rate that's dedicated to transit. A generated about $357,000 a year. That tax rate goes away at the end of this year. By voter approval, the majority of that tax continues forward for two more years to pay for the drosity property. So for the next two years we'll be making a half a million dollar debt service payment to the county to pay off Drostee as a Sky Mountain same property to get that project done. So that project will be paid for our portion that we paid for to the county by 17. And so at the end of 17, I'm going to use just some round numbers because it can fluctuate depending on assessed values. But roughly that 0.75 mill rate will go away. And all I'm doing is I want you to, there's, you don't need the dollars necessarily, but I wanted to put that on your radar that that mill rate goes away. And if there was something new on the due, it might be an opportunity to talk to the voters about keeping that mill rate on for something else. That, you know, whether it's schools, I know that's been talked about in the previously about schools, the proper detects, entryway, whatever we kind of come up with. I just wanted you to know to be to remember that that rate goes away in two years and the time to start talking about its potential use. If in fact you wanted to, it's sooner than later. If you say, hey, you know what, the voters approved it for the two uses, we're done with those two uses, they can drop. That's a fine position too, but I didn't want that opportunity to go away without you guys, you know, starting to think about it a couple years in advance. But it's about a $500,000 number, which happens to be what the school board is looking for from snowmass village. So it seems like it might be a pretty good. Well, it's less than, it looks like it's less than five. Is it a 357? It's 357, but 300 of the 357 gets now applied to drowsty of which there's already a $200,000 payment. So the total mill will go up from .75 to, I think it's roughly 1 mill, 1.02 mills, and that'll generate about 500,000. And the school board already has a valid aditi initiative right now, so may or may not. Right. And like I said, this is not, I mean, this is more of an FYI. Yep. Something to think about, something to have in the back pocket, about if you wanted to, if you, if you, if you going for it, if you wanted to support the school district, and it was in fact through property tax, this might be a method to do it. Because it wouldn't be increasing tax rates so much as this basically keeping the tax going forward and re-earn marking it. I'm not sure that's politically smart. I'm not sure it's feasible. I don't know any of those answers right now. It's something that's on the table. Those are the questions we were originally we were talking about even taking out of the general fund. So raising the sales tax, I think, doesn't seem very palatable. This seems like a pretty good way to get at it. I mean, that was one of the things when I was going through all the budget information that I know we're still waiting on information from you regarding maybe with the best way would be to get some funds to go towards the school. And I know we haven't received that information yet, but I do think that maybe it's something we want to consider in the planning process right now. I mean, even if we're not talking about giving them $500,000, we'll just take that number. We can argue about it for days. But let's just take that number. Next year, about it for days, but let's just take that number. Next year, we still can be talking about it several years from now and how it's going to work with what we're looking at tonight. My concern is I've got a valid initiative that passes. Why are we doing a placeholder here with this money? Because even if that passes, I think that they still want to see some type of financial contribution from Snowmass Village. Well, that would include Snowmass Village. But you have a 3A, you're talking about? Yeah. I think that's a different line item. I mean, they're still going to be going to ask for the sales tax increase in the next election. In ref numbers, and I'm doing it from memory, that their gap was about $2.2 million, but they've made their presentation. Yeah, that's for all the capital improvement. 2.2, 2.2, I would call it 2.2, and I've been wrong on my, so take that for what it's worth. But 2.2, their tax initiative they got before the voters now, if I understand correctly, would generate about a million. And so there would still be a gap of, call it 1.2, it might be more, it might be wrong, but there's still a gap. And that's what we need to understand is what's that gap, what needs to be filled between the county, city of Aspen and the village. And in there, in the back to school nights, in their spills to the parents. I mean, they talk about, you know, the approval of 3A, but then they're also talking about, they mention every time it contribution by the town of Snowmass Village. So I think they are definitely looking at that as two separate things. 3A and the, from the village of Mean? Yes. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I don't, I don't know know if right now we want to say we're going to continue with a ballot initiative. No, I just I'm bringing this up there. It's okay. There's something to find that pocket. Right. Right. You know, and again, we don't we don't have any dollars going towards a school district in 2016. It's not in the budget. Okay. So, you know, if there's the majority that said we need to, we need to hear it now, but we don't have that line that we go on the budget right now. But we expect what we're, just to quick update on that, we met with a pick in County in the city of Aspen two weeks ago maybe, or trying to figure out what's legal, what's not legal, and we're all, what's legal is really fundamentally comes down to, what can the county do or not do, you know, as far as appropriate tax goes. And then of course we've got our own solutions for us and then we'll be working together to develop that information and get it back to all the boards shortly. So we have a note, we don't have the answers for that yet, right? So again, that's more FYI than anything. Number two is one of the larger issues in the budget. And it's the one that the Finance Advisory Board rightly brought up. And it's the changing and staffing levels. And there's a couple of changes in categorization of positions from part time seasonal to full time seasonal, and then again, to part time year round, and then in transportation, we're taking positions from part time year round to full time. And I'm gonna stop there, and then I'll jump around for just a second. We've got, I didn't bring my cheat sheet with me, so I didn't get, sorry, but I'm gonna have to rely on you. But we've got a number of different categories for employees. Some are benefited, some have no benefits, some have limited benefits, and then we have a fully benefited position. And I'm going to simplify it for a minute. And what these are, for recreation, is we're taking positions from no benefits to the more modest level of benefits. And that's what- Well, like the part-time seasonal really has no benefits, but the full-time seasonal would have the health insurance. But that health insurance policy would only be during the months that they're employed. So if they're here for the summer months, just as lifeguards, they would have that coverage for, say, four or five months. Moving them to part time year round means the cost is still the same on a monthly basis, but now it's spread out over 12 months versus just those summer months further. The cost in terms of salary, the cost in terms of benefits. The cost in terms of benefits. We added up all the hours and the hours are roughly staying the same. It's just moving from say eight full-time seasonal lifeguards that come and go to maybe four or five, part-time year round, which means you'll be seeing the same people on a regular basis and they're not having to go out and advertise, recruit, train, make sure they have their certifications and all of that. So that doesn't really affect, that doesn't affect the dollars paid out in benefits that just spreads around. It just spreads it out over. It does increase the amount because now we're covering them for the same insurance from five months to 12 months. But I thought you said that the hours aren't really changing. Oh, I see. The salaries get spread out. So there's no difference in salary. But you've got a different. Oh, I see. The salaries get spread out, so there's no difference in salary, but you've got a different, you've got double the health insurance. Correct. So, to the, how are you addressing the 30-hour threshold? Are all of these employees meeting the 30-hour threshold time for months? Everybody currently that is at a 30-hour threshold is so much. Currently that is at a 30 hour threshold is currently covered. We have two policies, one for full time year round employees. And then we have a lower cost policy for all of those that are at that 30 hour threshold. And so that's on annualized basis. They would do 30 hours times. It's whatever look back period that we determine. So we're going through that process right now as we're evaluating all of the impacts. So that'd be more than 1,500 hours a week or a year. Yeah. And so the full time seasonal policy is the same policy as the part time year round policy. It's just that for these people, it's going to be over 12 month period. So Andy will have those people, those same employees working for him on a year round basis versus, you know, switching out. So what are they going to do if, what are they going to do when we're not that busy down the REC Center are they are we going to have more programs or later on? Well we're having less employees but on a part-time year round so I think the the number of hours difference was 192 hours difference on a annual basis. So no the total number of hours we're delivering are not going to change much. It's just we're going to be delivering with fewer people. Those fewer people are going to have a health care expense associated with them. So again, I come back to the value of having people on a regular 12 month basis, vis-a-vis training and hiring, going through the hiring process more frequently, the training process more frequently. Do we have any figures on what we spend on hiring and training for transportation we do, for recreation we don't, and that's why I think this is, I mean, it's gonna be, it's gonna be, it's a bit of an experiment, because managers sometimes are better off having eight people knowing that you can at least get one of the eight to show up, and we're doing a little bit of experiments saying we're gonna see, we're gonna have four more reliable folks, I don't know, user reliable loosely, but to be here because they're at a different range. We're gonna have different expectations of them. And you know, Parks and Rec and Andy, he's convinced me that going to that fewer bodies is gonna be, could provide that better service. We're gonna monitor it and see what, we're comfortable with the dollars amounts, and the next step is to measure, you know, what's the performance? What's the where we're in the packet is the information on the rec center? Support the is it in there? Yeah, there's a there's a worksheet in there that The easiest page to look at in my mind is page 61. That's the red. It's got the big picture. Well, the transfer in is the one that deals with the subsidy. That's and I know those numbers are very small up there. But the first section I'll wait for you guys to get to that page. Is this the page? Yes. That's what it looks like. Okay. Yep. Okay. So the first section up there which says has the section one with the blue. That is the cost of the landscaping parks and trails program. So if you go to 2016, proposed, you can see the operations is 500 and roughly 21,000. Capital is 20,000. Vehicle labor costs. That's for our mechanics. That's 10,000. So that total program is $550,862. The yellow, the light yellow that you see throughout this page is any funding sources that decreases the amount of those expenditures. So the lottery fund can be used for parks, trails, and recreation. So we get roughly 27,000 or so in lottery funds. We transfer those into the rent fund towards a trail's worker. So the net amount is 527,000. That is paid 100% from rent funds. Okay. Okay. The next section is the recreation program. That's 237,000. So that's the kids camp, those are the soccer, those are any recreation programs that are more organized recreational activities. That's 237,000. We get fees mostly from the softball fees for the teams of 81,000. So that net cost is 156,000, which is 66% is subsidized from the rep fund. The next block section three is basically the recreation center. And you can see those costs are 1.1 million. They have 630,000 coming in from membership fees, rental fees, personal training fees and concession stands so that net subsidy is 553,000 or 47%. And the only other transfer that occurs in these funds that's allowed through the ballot language is down towards the bottom. You'll see another blue line called section four and you see transfer out transportation. So the voters approved that rep funds could also be used to pay for the operating and maintenance cost of our rolling stock, which is our buses. So that 500,000 is reimbursement to the general fund for vehicle gas and oil, vehicle insurance, vehicle labor, vehicle parts and supplies. So the total amount of the transfer from the rep fund into the general fund to help to subset some of the, or to help fund some of the operating costs of these programs is $1.8 million in 2016. You know there is. So how come on the previous page, the previous page, the transfer or the 2016 budget out of the red is 2 million eight. 2 million. It's not all transfers. So the first three lines the five sixty two the five twenty seven and seven ten. Those are all the ones that we just covered transportation, parks, trails and recreation. Then there's some other direct expenses that the rep pays for. Some capital maintenance for the daily lane depot and garage of 6,000. Bus stop capital costs of 5,000. The town park station of 18,000. We pay 15,000 towards to the Aspen ski company, towards their summer mountain trails maintenance. We also have 71,000 that we pay for an annual capital maintenance for the recreation center, town park station. You see that the buses, the transfer out to the surf fund is 620,000 and then the capital reserve views. So that's the SGM plan for capital annual capital reserves that are used towards like the rec center or the parks and trails center. So that comes out of the reserve fund that you see at the bottom. And then we have the transfer out to the CIP fund, which is an additional 264,000 for a total expenditure of the rep funds of I think that says 3,000,000. 3,92. But the revenue for the rep fund is $2 million. 3.92. But the revenue for the RET fund is $2 million. That's correct. So where does the other million come from? Existing funds available. So from the balance? Within the RET funds. So if you go to see... Yeah, I think I have that one here. Right there, that page right there, you can see that 30, that the expenditures exceed the revenues and you can see down at the bottom, funds available of 618. Okay, thank you. We do know that this is a fund that we do watch closely. We have that $2 million that's an emergency reserve. And so if needed, we could use those funds. If additional rent funds didn't come in, the other point probably to make on this fund is it does not assume any base village project going forward. So if that project goes through on final, they build units, they sell the units. None of those are budgeted in this fund as I mentioned. Yeah, so I see where the red fund balance is going to drop by a million dollars. And in theory, when base villages approved, some point in 2017 probably red fund starts to get funding. Some initial sales were built. From initial sales of those buildings. And when then happens as well, then that rolls into basically what we call our base sales, what our resales, our annual resales. So. That's right. I follow that. So hopefully we run, I mean, is it fair to say that we've been running or we run about a million dollar deficit in the rent fund between everything that we want to support from it? Well, it really was dependent in the past on the number of buses we were buying. But now with the surfund, we've leveled that off if the costs in the recreation center and parks and trails, based on your goals. If that continues to increase in the red funds don't increase then yeah, we're looking at possibly some issues, but we also know that the general fund is another funding source that can be used if the rep funds don't come in. I'm really having a philosophical problem with the amount of subsidy increase this year compared to prior years. For what? For the rec center. Well, if you remember during the recession, we really ratchet it down a lot of these expenses and now we're putting it back to 47% Subsea compared to the 41% and that's for the pool and fitness Are there any limitations to the rat fund? There are it's a restricted fund so in your packet Are there any limitations to the rent fund? Oh, yeah, very restricted. There are, it's a restricted fund. So in your packet, in your description, it'll show you that when it was initially adopted, it was transportation capital, which was buses or buildings, things of those nature. It could also be paid for the four main artery, road arteries in Snowmass Village, which is brush creek, snowmelt, owl creek, and high line road. And it could also be used for trails and landscaping and town-owned or controlled property. Then I think it was in 2004. We went back to the voters in ask to expand the uses towards all operating and capital costs of parks, trails and recreation, which the voters approved as well as the rolling stock costs of the transit buses. Mary Ann. On the following page 37. I'm getting comfortable. Yeah, that's where I'm going. That's where I'm going. On page 37 of that. It breaks down the recreation parks and trails, expenditures and the personnel services which I'm assuming is the salaries of everyone who's working there is going up by $87,000. $88,000. So is that Delta? How much of that Delta is a result of the change that you propose to make between the part time and... So you're between the seasonal and the part time 12 months. Good questions. Yeah, I would say there's probably about 80,000 that is attributed to it. The way we budgeted for those positions going to two part time year round was Clint wanted us to budget the most conservative which meant that we not only budgeted them for the change of the 12 months but also budgeted for them as if they had family dependent coverage. So presumably we won't hit those numbers unless everybody came in and everybody wanted family coverage. If they come in and they're just a single employee, that's going to drop those amounts. And this is something that the employees are really looking for. They've gone to Andy and say, that's a lot of. That's a lot of. If I can have this. And I don't think it's an employee of. That's a lot of. If I can have this. And I don't think it's employee drift. I think it's management driven. I think it's, I mean, Andy trying to figure out how do we recruit, retain, how do we solve the issue when the lifeguards don't show up, how do we solve the issue of those kind of things. And I mean, it's't know, eight to four. I don't know the numbers exactly, but reduce it. And we're going to see if this approach works better. So you're reducing in a half and cost go up 80,000. That's a lot of money for four employees. And it goes back to that fundamental issue. And that's where I'm saying, don't think it, because we're at the same issue in transportation. We've got, and we have the same issue in all our departments, this is a healthcare issue. And that's what we're facing. Healthcare is silly expensive. It's wicked expensive. And that's what we're facing here. And so, I mean, we're going to do solve an issue managerially with this to get that to happen. And what it does is it costs healthcare. And that's where I think we got to get on the philosophy of, we got to understand what you all want to get towards. And what we want to get to with managers of what's the right way. We already draw that line on healthcare. Who gets it? Who doesn't? Well, I think we almost need to see what is the program for healthcare. Because I don't know what we're spending for employee. And is it 80% is it 100%. You talking premium split? Yeah, premiums and deductibles and all that stuff. That was all presented to you last year in June when we presented the council people. No, I mean it's a can tell you it's a great program. There's no doubt it is one of our best recruitment and retention efforts. I mean when we look at it and we talk to folks it's a fantastic program. There's no doubt it is one of our best recruitment and retention efforts. I mean when we look at it and we talk to folks it's it's a fantastic program. If you're an individual it's 100% covered. If you're a family it's 87 thirty-three-seventine. It is outstanding. It's exceptionally generous but it's again when he comes back to you know salary and whatnot where we live it's a, again, when he comes back to, you know, salary and whatnot where we live, it's what we've done on purpose. And it's not new in this budget. It's not a new effort we've undertaken. This is keeping up with that. Yeah, I understand that it's the cost of healthcare is just getting so absorbent that sometimes you have to look back and say, can we continue to do what we've done on taxpayer dime? And again, and if you guys came back and said, this is an issue we want to address, I have every confidence. I can come back and we can manage to that 29th hour. We could say, you know what? Everyone's getting 29.5 hours. I just don't know that that's not a good, that's not a good, we say. I don't know that that's not a good that's not a good. That's not I only get to good solutions. That's and that's what I'm saying is I understand the principle of the FAB. It's like we need to come up with some guidelines. I totally agree with that at this point. These are the proposals that we've got. We've shown them to be affordable. I think the point is that to be made well is we got to come up with some better guidelines and we've got to make sure our eyes are wide open doing this. And I think they are doing this move. I think going forward, we've got to be exceptionally aware of what's happening. And this isn't the first year that Andy has approached us to move to this. He's been asking for it for many years, but because of the budget constraints throughout the recession, it was no, no, no, no, no. And then finally we said, okay, I think we can get it done. And this year, let's see what we can have done and see how it impacts them. I mean, I'm having a personal conflict. Personal philosophy conflict. My personal philosophy is everybody should have health insurance. Okay, it's an important thing in today's world. When I put on my town councilman hat and I see $80,000 to make this change and I hear that, and I hear that it's 100% paid. I'm thinking maybe there's something in between thing here where a full time person has the program 100% paid, but a 30-hour person maybe has to contribute something. And they do. And that's why I was explaining we have two separate plans. We have one for the full time year round. We have another one that's for the part time year round and full time seasonal. It's still paid at 100%, but the benefits are less. So, and the reason why it was designed that way was mainly for our transportation bus drivers because the cost of insurance is so high that we wanted a policy that they could go on Cobra for when they're not employed so that they wouldn't be without health insurance during the off-season when they're not employed. So we said, well, let's come up with another policy for them that's a cheaper cost for the employees so that they can continue to. So the idea was to make it affordable for somebody to go on Cobra for the other months when they're not. A lot of people want Obamacare when they're not working. They were just cheaper than Cobra. Well, that's just new though. I'm just saying that we've had this plan in place for. Well, it'd be great. I'd like to really see the benefit structure. I know. And that's something that like I said we've got this committee that we've put together and we'll be looking at all of that. Would Andy be would it be possible for Andy to get a I guess to survey his His employees at this point with you know, or what if and what kind of insurance they would need to get some kind of a sense of What the mix would look like because I suspect that whatever the mix is now It's not going to change a lot as you go forward between family and single. And because there is really such a significant difference in the cost of a single and a family plan, it would really help to understand what the mix would be. to understand what the mix would be. Because that could take that $80,000 to half. You know? And that's what I'm saying. If it's a dollar issue, I'll fix it today. I'll change my budget philosophy and say, don't go with the most conservative. You know, cut the number and half marry in and we can solve that like this. The discussion I wanted to have with you guys is more of the philosophical I mean we're aiming to make sure that we're not Imagine that 29th and a half hour and that's a that's a policy kind of philosophies like we don't want to do it To hit the absolute guidelines and and that's really kind of how that decision was made I have every confidence without knowing who's gonna get the jobs and all that kind of how that decision was made. I have every confidence without knowing who's going to get the jobs and all that kind of thing that that number is way high. My philosophical issue is not eight to four. The question becomes one for me is I don't know what our entire benefit package is, how it's structured and what the cost is for a full time employed. Whether it be gentle, whether it be healthcare, whether it be vision, I don't even know if we offer vision. There's a lot. I don't think. And I guess if we went back to the June 20th meeting, it's in that packet from the consultant. We can absolutely, but I can you, without going in the numbers, it's a very generous plan on purpose by design. And if you, for those of you that weren't here, part of what the study showed was that more of our costs was spent on the healthcare side as compared to other entities, but we were way low on the healthcare side as compared to other entities, but we were way low on the retirement side. And we had a discussion internally with employees years ago, do you want that shift? Do you want to divert money from the health insurance and go with lower plan policy and shift it towards the retirement? And at that time, they said no health insurance is far more important to us so that's where we stand today. So it gets into an employee survey to make sure. And that's the discussions we're going to have going forward. We talked about we know that something's got to change and what's that change going to be. Mary Ann talked about the federal philosophy. They're hoping that what organizations do is reduce the benefit package, increase the wage and they'll increase their income. The income tax. That's what the Fed's are betting are going to happen. There's an absolute direct cost to employees, and we're going to go through and say, hey, I'm going to make up the number, but your insurance is $9,000 or $9,000, $10 an hour benefit. We should rather get $9,000 or $10,000 and have no insurance. So we should rather keep the insurance. And those are going to be frank discussions. And you know, we're not trying to cheap out. But these are discussions that need to have be had. And we need to understand what's going to motivate staff to stay here. And you know, continue to provide the high quality services we're getting today. And that's our plan of attack. Again, I think if you're focused on the dollars, we can fix the dollars today. But I think I want the philosophy that I'm going to be from you again. I'm not focused on the $80,000, but I am focused on the amount, let's call it the deficit between revenues and expenses within the, and the growth of that deficit within the recreational area. Okay, so that's kind of where I'm focused, particularly when we have a million dollar support out of the balance of the rat fund, right? So that we exceed our ret revenues or our estimated ret revenues by a million dollars. We can't do that very long. And on one hand, we have these climbing expenditures. And on the other hand, we have a flat or slightly climbing revenue stream. It just seems to me that it's going to catch up to us really within not too long. We'll get a jump. There's no question about it. We'll get a jump when base villages approved and these buildings are under construction. We will get a jump because there are those numbers of condos that will be sold. But that's a very short term jump. You know, it may be two or three years and then that's sold out. And then we're going to be back where we are. And then we've got to, I think, then it becomes a more difficult solution, frankly. So I don't know. I mean, and I'm tracking with you, and there's the new guy, I have the same concerns. And I think where I get a level of comfort is, you know, the reserve that we've got on this is $2 million, which is, you know, roughly 100% of anyone in your revenues. Yeah. It's a considerable reserve. And I think the way we budgeted this is, you know, the general fund primarily is the funding source for almost all of these products or programs or whatever you want to call them. And then the way we need to start transitioning is whatever dollars are available in the rent, we need to spend those dollars and then because they're there and that's what the voters are proving for. But the primary expense is, I mean the general fund needs to be providing these services. The rent helps provide these services. They're not dependent on the rent. Yeah, I get it that the rent should be the first dollars we use for funding these things because it's the most restrictive. Right, right. So I do understand that. I don't know how to rest of my colleagues feel. I always worry about long term versus short term. Yeah. That's a considerable jump. And I understand we want to support what's happening down at the rec center and the various programs. The question is, it becomes one of affordability, and what I hear is health care costs. Well well we all know health care cost is going up. So it's going to continue to go up. It's not going down. So the question becomes one of philosophy. What level benefits can we as a town afford? afford. Right. And that is based on employee surveys, what their needs are, what they'd like to see, and what I hear, we've got a new employee committee starting, which I think is fabulous. We haven't surveyed the employees for a long period of time. The demographic of our workforce is really changing. So what we knew five years ago is probably different today. And I'm with you all in all that. And I think we still got to step back as the evil managers and think what's right. You know, we've got to listen to the staff, got to figure out what's motivating all kind of thing. And that's where a lot of these decisions were made. We're listening to department directors, listening to what are we trying to achieve. And there's four different departments in here that we're talking about. I'm gonna jump to the next two in a second, but recreation made some requests, transportation made some requests, marketing and building. And I mean, all this issue of healthcare affects everyone of the same. Fighting everybody. The lower you are on the pay scale, the higher percentage the healthcare is as a benefit. And is that good or bad? I don't know, but that's the fact. And I think that's just something to keep in mind. And that's why we put that out there. Before we get too bogged in these on, I might just jump to the next two. So we talked about recreation. I think we touched on transportation, taking those year round part time to full time. The other two are assuming base village is approved. We've got a position budgeted for a building inspector. We've got one building inspector now. I mean, it's physically, we need another person doing the inspections. That position would be contingent upon approval and actual demand for that job. But that's another one. We budgeted it for the whole year, whether we bring them on. When we bring them on exactly, we will determine managerially, but we put the worst case dollar in there, the most expensive case dollar in there. And in the last position we've got is a marketing technician that comes out of the marketing fund, marketing special event fund. But that's, we've made a huge increase in our online marketing efforts. If you remember this year, we made the, we added the position of marketing director, online marketing director. I don't remember exact title, but basically to help us focus online. And this is a continued effort towards that to make sure that what we're doing online is in fact moving thanks forward. That's where we've seen a lot of ROI on those dollars. Related did make a comment about supporting that additional planning inspector. Right. If you remember what the condition of approval was, is they need to help us through the, to make sure that everybody knows we're still open through the construction. It's going to end up being a simple dollar amount as my guess. We'll see what they come back with in the final. But you know, whether we use those dollars for this or something else, it's just going to be it. We're going to likely put it towards the campaign. From what I understand, the last time base village was hot and heavy, some of our competitors advertised that, hey, you don't go to snowmast and under construction. Right. We need to kind of have that counter campaign in the box and ready to go saying, we're open and still the best kind of thing. As long as I'm on marketing, I might just touch on one thing, real quick, so I don't forget. We're going to present the whole marketing and business plan to you in two weeks. We're not going to go into specifics of the budget, but we want to show you the business plan. So you'll see all these efforts and where we're aiming and what's going on through that. We've got that schedule, I think, two weeks from tonight for you. So we're not, we're skipping over some of the budget stuff for marketing kind of on purpose because you'll see it in more detail in two weeks. Do you want to keep talking personnel? Should we jump to the next one? Could we take a quick break? We're the boss. I think our bladder is in the deck. Good minutes. Please. We kind of talked about the end. We talked about an employee survey and as it relates to the benefit, the benefits discussions and so forth. So I'd like to ask my fellow Councillors, how you would feel if we provided some money in this budget to do an employee survey next year and hopefully earlier in the year so that we could incorporate the information that we received into next year's budget. So that would be more than just a being employee satisfaction. It spranks weakness. into next year's budget. So that would be more than just the being employee satisfaction with Frank's weakness. Yeah, I mean, it's more than just wages and benefits, but it would help us when we're sitting here a year from now to understand what would make the most sense for the towns and plays, for our employees? How long has been, is that the formal survey we did ages ago? Yeah, it was a long time ago. Yeah. That was before 2006, wasn't it? It was probably back when, well, I think when Russ was here, was when his first year that we pulled the employee committee together. How much are those? I mean, depending on what we're asking, we can do it in the House. I mean, if we're just going to... We really should use outside to do that, to do it anonymously. I worry about that because I always find people are worried if they even when you say it's going to be anonymous and confidential there's still going to be those employees that will not fill them out. What's the kind of information you'd be looking I mean just satisfaction I mean we can the short answer sure we can do it but I just don't I need to know what you're looking for. I think I'm looking for, I'm thinking I'm looking for something that would give us a sense of what people feel or how people feel about their work environment, their wages and benefits, their relationship with their superiors, managers, supervisors, and and and peers. And that includes communication, how we communicate as a defective, as not effective, various meetings, how are we recognized, all of that, all the things that are very, very important to employees. Opportunities for growth. Yeah. Even though I, all of us who lead companies sometimes say, oh my god, here comes. It's also one of the most important tools. Just as we did a community survey, I think knowing what our employees think, what Theo is extremely, just equally as important. So we can plan new benefits, we can say, you know, what people really want is mental health day. Okay, great. There's so many opportunities to these. I mean, if that's something the majority wants to get done, let us give us, when we come back, we can give you a number. I don't know what that number would be. So we could, if that's something you're not interested in, adding in, we could. Well, I am. I am. I think it would be beneficial. But going back to your question earlier about what's our philosophy being forward? I mean, I think it's important that we recognize the cost of living is really high in this valley. And I do believe that the benefit package is a huge asset. I understand it's going to cost us a bit more, but if it does help with employee retention and it improves, you know, the employees outlook about how, you know, what their job is and how they do their job. I think it's money well spent. Well, let us give us two weeks. Well, we we'll come up with an umbrella. We'll insert that into the. Thank you. Move on, Clant. So the next one we touched on a little bit earlier, the implementation of the rate increase for solid waste pickup and removal. We're estimating a 5.2 percent increase right now. That's based on basic issues such as healthcare increases, salary increases, but also a huge chunk of that is based on indication we've received from Pick and County of the landfill. So we've got the increase budgeted. We'll continue to work with Pick and County to find out what that increase is to be. I know Am's such a behind me, but I know she's working with them to actually have them push it off because we didn't get a whole lot of notice to figure out what these rates could be. We'll see how successful that is. But in the short term, we've gone ahead and put that worst case in the budget, have the budget recognize that. If it turns out we don't need the increase, that level of increase, then we won't do that level of increase. If that's all right, I'll jump on to the next one. Number four is, you know, it's an equally, it's a discussion that you just had, and I'm going to kind of, it's great that you want to do the survey. I'm all for it, it'd be great to find out what folks are thinking and, you know, in an honest way they don't have to be concerned about perceptions of their thoughts. This next one is along those same lines. We've got an increase next year in employee compensation is the item, but next year we're anticipating a 12% increase in health care costs. It's not cheap, it's a real number. This year's increase was significantly lower. Yeah, the health insurance, we had budgeted 14%. The health insurance was 4%, but a lot of those costs were offset because we had significant savings on changing our dental coverage. And so I think the net impact was about 1%. So and that's something we do. We work with them. We I think you don't point it out that we need to make sure we're bidding them out. We're working with different vendors. We do do that. But we've got to, we put a worst case number in here. And that's the, I mean, if something comes in higher, God forbid. If it does though, that's our number. And if something comes in lower, then it didn't great. But we're that we were putting that worst case number in here. We've talked a little bit about the Cadillac tax. That's the excise tax. And we are in a tough position because no matter what happens, if we offer the lowest federally accepted plan because of the cost of health care in the area, we're going to be saddled with this tax. And we know we need to come up with a strategy to address this. There's a number of different ways to do it. And if we go for this employee survey, I think we'll use that as a way to help us address that and make sure we're being proactive with it. But it's something that we wanted to point out, make sure you knew about it. And the final thing is the dollars we did put an increase in the budget next year for salary increases. We did a $4% amount. That's similar to this year. We still need to work through whether to figure out whether that would be some of that would be coal and some of that performance-based, whether it would all be performance-based, how we do want to separate that out. But the $1 amount is what we've said in there as an average of be 4% with some details still to be determined. So that's the list of the large, the big issue topics. I mean, there's roughly 10 that we talked to it through the FAB. I mean, a lot of these are big ticket issues. The CIP is a big ticket issue. I would hope that you agree that the majorities are, you can see the connections with the goals that you guys set in spring that we're trying to address. Some of the goals you said are going to be multi-year. It's just going to take some time to get to them and we're just going to take those incremental steps to start addressing them. You know, again, I'm going to go back to my opening statement, couple statements. This document is your biggest policy document. It's there's something you want to be working towards, and it's going to cost. Let us know. This is the time to be doing that. And then I'll kind of end with, you know, the fundamental is what we presented to you was a balanced budget. I mean, the operating revenues exceed the operating expenses. I know that not everybody agrees with everything. We are well aware of where some of these risks are, and we're going to continue to manage it. Because you adopt it or don't adopt it, hopefully you adopt it, we know that we've got to pay attention to a lot of these issues. And we know that if revenues don't show up, we're on the hook to make the cuts and make sure that, you know, we stay in that fiscally strong position going forward, and we're prepared to do that. And with that, the defense rests. And with that the defense your us I'm not attorney much of that makes sense or not Yes, that's not here so someone so you can you can say that. Thank you The Holy Cross fund We don't have about nine hundred and sixty seven thousand or something like Six hundred and sixty how much seven 795 at the end of the year. So we could use, perhaps, use those monies for the snow melt or the bloody sea max program what? We didn't, we got, we had only any, so just so everybody knows the Holy Cross funds, is they voluntarily provide 1% of their gross revenues to the town for us to use on projects that they essentially get to approve. We've got, I'm going to just call it roughly, we'll have roughly $800,000 in it by next year. We don't have any expenses coming out of the Holy Cross Fund next year. When we talked to the Council of last year, one of the ideas that came up is, we should save those dollars for one big project, whether it's entryway, whatever it is. And we were kind of nickel and diamond in previous, with, you know, 40 grand heater, 50 grand there. And so we made the conscious decision not to use it as a revenue source for any projects. And so if you guys did come up with something big, entryway or whatever else it is, that's you know, almost, you know, it eight hundred thousand dollars sitting there to to tackle a project with and it will continue to grow as long as we don't spend it right one of the areas that Leah Moriarity brought up Michi talked with us and I don't remember when that was probably March. For you? I don't think nobody was here. It was all about the beautification of SNAS Village and what the guest experience is from the minute they enter coming into our town. During this summer, I did send some notes over to Andy regarding the quality of the landscaping in areas that really looked pretty sad. The good news is he was able to hop on some of those, but I would hope that we would use a critical eye. Perhaps have a task force or education or what have you that Leah would be part of to really guide us through her eyes coming in. In several of the people in the town, I would anticipate whatever little research into this and trying to figure out, you know, after our tour of Beaver Creek and here, at some point, there was a conscientious decision or a very direct decision made to kind of go with that more, on a call, that natural look versus that super manicured look that we saw over there in Vail. Whether you want that or not, I need to get some direction on that. But what do we want to be kind of that natural, long grass, mode of the median twice a year, with some flowers in it, or do we want to go with that specific, you know, petunias every three feet? The philosophy change was back during the recession. That's when we said we don't have enough money to plant perennials and we talked then about getting a volunteer workforce to work on the gardens and what have you. Well, that never materialized. I think it was 2006, 2007, 2008. I don't remember when. So the second thing I was going to say is we do have $40,000 in here for median improvements. So that needs to happen. Well, and that's going to be a discussion with you guys. What is it that you want? Because I don't want to go plant petunias and I'm being a little facetious if everyone kind of likes that kind of wavy grass. And that's going to be some stuff that we got out of the stadium, what folks are looking for. But the bottom line is we heard it. I know it was an issue and we put $40,000 of money in here to make improvements. With any luck, because most the majority of our landscape is contracted out, I mean, when we add something, that adds to the ongoing cost. So with any luck with this $40,000, and we can do some one-time things, whether they're bulbs, whether they're lights on the trees. I don't know what you'd be looking for, but before we let this thing go, assuming it's approved, we would come back and look for some specific direction from what you're aiming for. But because of the way we do it, it's we get charged for everything that we do. We use the food and the house. We don't need more, right? No, that was the decision. We evaluated bringing it in house this year. And it's part of the red analysis and all that kind of thing. And it wasn't close yet. It was still far more cost effective for the staff. We had to bring in for what we contract out. Well, the contract company was failed to deliver in some areas where they previously have done so. So the parks and trails budget also has $10,000, but you did it in there for holiday lights. Go ahead, we need them. I wanted to... We heard you, we did it. Guess what I'm saying? I love holiday lights. Maybe infecisions. Okay. I like them. Okay. They just sometimes stay up a little too long. I mean Jewish people don't really hang up holiday lights. But it looks good. It brings light to the darkness of winter and then we debate on it. It's an honest debate we've had. When do you bring them down? If you live in Denver, I grew up in Denver. The light the date you would bring your holiday lights down by stock show. That was the unwritten rule in every neighborhood in Denver. It's April 1. January. Because that's just what you grew up. It's like, yeah, in January. And then when I was in Durango, it was by you have so many visitors in the winter, I do feel like it adds a little magical quality to it. That's a magical place. Yeah, it's at I'm into it. But this is not about lights. This is also I was looking at my notes from the work session where Leah came to talk. And she also had talked about the idea of creating a day to do the dump pickup at people's houses like Aspen does. And I don't know what the cost of that is or what that looks like, but that also might be something that we, because I think that's a great idea. I feel like it's a, you know, everyone in Aspen always looks forward to that day. Do you know what I'm talking about? I've done in other towns, but basically you put all your junk on the curb and we come and pick it up. Yep. And they do it in Aspen. I think it's in May. They do it in Glenwood Springs. Mm-hmm. I can just tell my own personal experience. We did in Durango, one of the single biggest expenses the town undertook every year. I mean, we could be curious to know how much it costs in Glenwood or Aspen. Does Aunt Ann might know? And those of you back then. No, whatever proposed is next year in the Cap on Primate Program, I had in their Solid Waste Management Plan, and is to look into some of those topics to talk about those services and what we would cost and how we're doing our services. And we pretty clear on some of the questions we got on collection, but just to go through and re-analyze what's going on with the philosophy of picking county and their solid waste management plan and how we interact with that. So we could roll it into that study. Okay. So. That sounds good. That sounds good, Ann. Thank you. Anything else? We're done with our presentation. We want to make sure you have all your questions. I mean, I still feel a little unsettled about the school stuff. I don't know. This is a discussion with your colleague. I know, and I don't really, I mean, you know, my kids are young and they have a lot more, they have a lot more years in the school system. And so for me, I understand, you know, the tax that has been and waiting to see all the stuff, but I still feel like we need to be looking forward and seeing what that looks like. And I mean, I have no idea exactly what it means, but I just, it's important to me. So. Well, don't we have it on a work session? I don't think we've got to date scheduled for it yet. Yes. I think Rio even analysis, you know, a conjunction with the county and the city. Right. And we'll bring it back at that point. That's when I would like to discuss it. Yeah, I mean, you'll get a number of options put before you about how to hit the gap and all those kind of things. I'm fine with that. Waiting for the work session. Yeah. Yeah, I'll be interested to see what comes back. I mean, if there's something we can do in the county, that would be great. But I mean, the solution we saw tonight is in my mind, that's the best one we've got so far. Well, would have to be another voter referendum. Yes, it would take a look at the people. Yeah. So, a beach, a beach about 21 minutes. Okay, so now we have something else we need. We have anything else. Yes, we need to move into reports, council reports. Do you have anything? I don't have anything. Oh I just wanted to make one comment was we seem to be having meetings every week at least one. I think people are I know I myself are starting to get meeting out every Monday night. And I see work sessions. I think there's one next week. Do we get the last weekend of October off or the last Monday of October off? Yeah, what we've been scheduled on is first and third Mondays and then the second Monday for work sessions. So without looking, I'm guessing yes. It's on it. It's on it's in your path. Yeah, that's what I thought I just want to make sure. So right now you're scheduled for a work session on the 12th. Then you've got EOTC on the 15th. We've got a regular meeting on the 19th. One day the second is a regular meeting. We don't have to keep that light because the county's not using our space for a vote center. I work session on the 9th. Your regular meetings on the 16th of November. You see the number? Do you see it? Regular meeting on the 7th of December. Special meeting on the 14th of December and the regular meeting on December 21st. So right now, your last Monday of October, November and December are all free. Unless the final comes. Unless the final comes. Yeah, I know, I'm expected to and that's, I mean, that's, that's what's jammed up your last week. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm up to the rest of the year. Whenever it comes in. You know, I, I agree. I mean, I, I want to be kind of a curse with optimism and then the final is going to match their preliminary exactly and it's going to be exactly what everybody wants and. Yeah, it's only good 10 in a row you guys. Yeah. Could be asked and have a lot more than that could be. No. Okay. I don't have anything. Did you have any report? No reports. I'm going to Markees' wrath to meeting. Thank you. Thursday. Thank you very much. So I'll report that. Okay. Anything else from town staff? Okay. Executive session. The town council will now meet an executive session pursuant to CRS 2464024 and Snowmass Village Municipal Code Section 24045C to specifically discuss one item. Personnel matters, except if the employee who is the subject of the session has requested an open meeting pursuant to CRS 246 4024FL. And Snowmass Village Municipal, Section 245C6. Provided there is an affirmative vote of two thirds of the court and present at the meeting to hold an executive session and for the sole purpose of considering item A above. Provided further that no adoption and any proposed policy, position, resolution, regulation or formal action shall occur at this executive session. I move that we go into executive session. Do I have a second? Second. All any further discussion? All in support? Say aye. Aye. No, same sign. OK, will you move over to the little meeting then? Because I don't have a motion. So this will be the last time. you you I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. Thank you.