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I'm going to go Everyone here this evening whether you're in public or whether you're listening on Granicus to this special meeting November 9th of 2015. So before we get started I do have a pair of sunglasses that somehow appeared either in the conference room or here on the table. I inadvertently took them home thinking they were mine because I have something that looked just like it. So I tried to pawn them off on Billy Mats and Mr. Stilesh, Sunglass guy here, with the ride stones. I mean, we have private jokes. But anyway, if these are yours, we're going to leave them here with Rhonda. So very nice pair of sunglasses. So without further ado, Rhonda, you wanna do roll call? Here. Here. Here. Here. Awesome. Here. Here. Okay. On our agenda this evening we'll have a section on the public comment. We will then move into the consent agenda which includes the draft agendas and work session topics for the next few months. And then scheduling a pre-sketch for Burling Game Cabin. I know that many of you read about that in the newspapers, so we'll be discussing that under consent agenda. Then we move in to budget. And I'm sure everyone will want to listen to that. Then housing guideline discussion with Joe Coffee. That's a pretty significant part of the packet, very well put together document. So please take a look at that and then we'll be going into an executive session this evening relative to town council giving the performance evaluation to our great town manager. So there we go. We're ready to roll. Any public comment? Yes, Madeline, please come forward. Good afternoon, Council. I'm going to speak I thank you Madam Mayor for mentioning the topic of the executive session, which is personnel issues, but I would like to point out that since August 3rd, there have been 13 meetings and seven executive sessions, including all of October and the first two meetings in November. I understand that these are two topics, personnel and litigation. However, I think it's human nature to perhaps in these long meetings, there can be a temptation and I'm not alleging anything but to discuss matters that are not, do not fall in either of those two categories. Specifically, I'd like to mention that East West is not an applicant with the town. So I would hope that any discussions about East West don't happen beyond closed doors that they happen out in the public. We have a new council member as I point out next week. Tom, I don't want you to get into the habit of executive sessions. I'm very much proponent of Sunshine Law, you two members as well. Bill and Alyssa, I hope you will take this seriously. Let's try to do as much business in the public as possible. Thank you. Thank you very much, Madeline. do as much business in the public as possible. Thank you. Thank you very much, Madeline. I see there was an article today in the paper about East West. I haven't looked at it, but somebody put me on to it. Jill, thank you. I'll read it when I get home. So no, we have not been discussing absolutely no way. We know the rules. I do want to make sure and assure the public that one of the most important, if not, a key to having a successful council is to having successful leadership in our town. And many people are new to council, so needless to say it was a brand new process for all of our council people to go through what type of tool shall we use, what are the priorities on and on and on and we're just about finished. Mr. Dresser is not here this evening so please no public there will be another executive session next week with Mr. Dresser Returns for that purpose. So I look forward to the conversation and I'm sure all of our council people do do that. And thank you for reminding us once and again. So without further ado, is there any public who would like to step 4th. Madeline has done so. I don't see anyone else waving their arms. So let's move into the consent agenda. A draft agenda is in work session. And scheduling the pre-sketch joint meeting. Do I have a motion for approval or would anyone like to pull it out? I move to approve the consent agenda. Do I have a second? Second. Further discussion? For the public information and interest, Clint, you want to talk about just briefly this Berlin game cabin project. It's scheduled tonight really, for next week. When really what the code says is it needs to be scheduled through a meeting for the next meeting So that's the that was your action tonight assuming it's approved to schedule for next week next week It's a it's a pre-sketch type meeting which means it's relatively informal planning commissioners will be here Council members will be here and will be opportunity for the applicant to kind of go over some of the generalities They want to show and really it's a chance for them to understand is that it is a good idea they should carry forward and pursue further or is something that maybe not had the legs that they wanted to have and it's just an opportunity for informal feedback in the planning process. You know the only thing I heard from just one member of public so that's not a large end. They had no idea where the Berlin game cabin was. Well, and so I mean at one point there was some hope that we could get up there for a site tour, but you know there's the snow on the ground. We will have I'm sure the applicant will have maps and pictures and whatnot. And I think it's really more of a use issue for you guys, which will be you and the planning commission will be looking at. Is it a use that you think should you think should be pursued and investigated further. Thank you very much. So, okay. Do you know the Berlin game cabin was moved? It used to be under the Berlin game lift. Years ago. And the old ski school, when we had the kids' ski school picnic, I think it was every Friday, we used to jump to cabin. So I, and I don't know if there's any pictures of that around it. And it was a pretty scary thing thinking about if you've ever been up the old burlin game chairlift, it's very narrow. It points through the trees and they had a pretty big ramp there. And it was a pretty benign kind of jump, but you had to get enough speed. Otherwise, many people landed on the roof. So from that point on, I don't know what happened to it. One thing I don't remember. Look at it blushed. The local quiet there on your left. Oh, we need to keep our levity going here. Okay. Thank you very, very much. Moving on, we're going to move right into budget. You need approval. Oh, yeah, that's right. We need to say yes or no. All in support, say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Same sign. Let's move on into budget this evening. We have Mary Ann Rikowski with us and we'll be talking about the 2016 budget we do have a resolution that has been prepared, but I do know that members of council might have additional questions and one of the suggestion last week we looked at some of the projects, I asked Clint if he could and print that out and we talk about what's called doability on some of these projects given the multitude of them associated with public works in Rec Center and Second of which is those with solid numbers and those which we call in the industry, WAG members. So I don't know if that's where you want to start. I'm looking to my colleagues for consensus or would you like to start someplace else? Tea up where we left off. That's good. Okay, that's where we'll start. So we presented the budget to you guys, I think on three different occasions. And so we're obviously last week, I think the request of the council was to make sure that what you got this time was really the numbers. And so we removed a lot of the analysis in the charts and we just kind of gave you the rod numbers with the summaries and the first couple of pages. So hopefully you got what you were looking for. And then we added the variances in the math at the end of it. And the variances were comparing budget or adopted 15 for proposed 16. Instead of trying to have eight different columns for different variances, we chose that. And we'd be happy to review any of those that might be out before you. What we're just provided to you tonight in paper version is a list of projects. This is a kind of a combination of what we call one-time projects and also capital projects. The projects that we hope to undertake next year and these are really, there's no guidance to it yet other than to say, we think these are things that you're going to see as physical improvements in the community want to make sure that you're aware of. And we think these are a lot of these efforts towards achieving the goals and the council outlined as long as far as the capital improvement program goes and some other specifics as far as improvements to pedestrian connectivity. So we lined up these dollars this way. We went ahead and put some of the names, at least if you look underneath the project leaders, you see the first names, the department directors that would be leading those efforts. And as I said, we know it's a very aggressive project schedule, but we've got a high level of confidence that we can move on the vast majority of these. If you know worst case scenario scenarios, we don't get to something. It's still a budgeted item that we can move on later on once we've got the time. But we wanted to set something aggressive. We wanted to be able to take the chance and get more done than otherwise and take advantage of reaching those goals that Council's outlined. So with that, I mean I can go project by project again or I could I'm not sure he want to proceed in that area. I guess one of the questions of our is is we really don't have a lot of detail on any of these projects it's always hard without detail. And what I don't understand or could understand is each time a project is about ready to move forward or you're up or ready for that project, why could we not come back into council and ask for the dollars? And then it's a very it's the budget, like we do all the time. I mean, every time, so when you adopt the budget, it's by resolution, public hearing resolution. When you vary the budget, it takes an ordinance process. And so it's first reading, second reading, adoption at that point. And so it just, it takes more time, and it's cumbersome and so our hope is that if you can say here's the I don't count how many projects this is but to call it 20 or so projects we hope to achieve then we can get our marching orders and I can line the crews up to make sure that those projects are being worked towards. So refresh my memory when we did the $100,000 for that consulting project for poster I don't remember coming back in with a resolution on 100,000. We took it through an ordinance. And so, yeah, I mean, it's, it is, I can say, we are unique in that process in that resolution to adopt a budget in ordinance to modify the budget. That is a, that is a unique requirement of the snowmatch charter. Most charter are almost the opposite of that. It's really cumbersome. It is. Because we're approving dollars, we don't know what. We're really approving. You know what I'm saying? There's one thing to say something about. We know about the roundabout. We know about the road overlays. Laser fish, enterprise content management, a little confusing there, but parking lot licensing system, that's a ballpark number, if I remember right? It's certainly, I mean, it's ballparking in that we don't have the exact number, we haven't put the project out the bid, but we've certainly worked with different vendors that provide that service and are comfortable, that's the right number to have the budget to work with. And so we're working towards a lot of these projects. We've been talking about them for a while. And so, but we won't go out for that final solution or that final RFP and sign that contract until we know in fact this is something the council wants to undertake. For the GIS, which is a big ticket in here. This year, I think there's $11,000 or $12,000 to do a kind of a comprehensive strategic plan on how to introduce GIS systems into our organization. We undertook that. With that comprehensive analysis undertaken, we went ahead and put a project out the bid. So we're comfortable that these are the right numbers to go ahead and introduce GIS into the varying departments in the organization. That 224 number that we've got there, I will say that could be upwards of two years of effort. So that I mean we know that we'll be spending you know I'm going to say roughly $170,000 in year one. If we get really aggressive we might be able to get more so that number might be a slightly high but I wanted to put those high in numbers in here just to make sure that hey, this is the most we think we'll be spending on these projects. And if in fact we were wrong, we'd have to come back and ask for either, we need to make adjustments within the budget or come back and ask for additional funds. But we put those high in dollars on here for that purpose. Or that high at the hang-in of the arranged dollars. Clint, one concern that I have is that as presented, the budget reduces the fund balances collectively by $6 million. And I think that, I mean that, that, that to me is significant. It's over 25% of the beginning fund balances. Right. A lot of it has to do with the CIP and CERF, the capital improvement projects and the capital equipment. Yes. And I guess I wonder if it's all, number one, is it all necessary to do in one year? And number two, is it all practical to get done in one year. And that is part of what's driving me to look at this project list, I guess a little differently. Sure. I mean, if you remember that very first day in early October, and I'm, you know, this is that chart that we passed out on day one, and we talked about with the big, one of the big goals that we laid out in the budget was to increase the capital budget reserve, or the general fund reserves, we call it different things, emergency reserve, the fund balance, whatever you want to call it. But we took it from 17%, which is what's this 16%, 16%, which is this year to 25%. And we did that because we wanted to make sure that no matter what going forward that we've got dollars available in case there's a downturn in the economy, that's no year or whatever. And then if you remember, even with that, increasing that reserve to 25%, we still, and I don't want to pull these all out again, but if you want to, but we showed you how those that fund balance to be spent down. And so I'm confident in saying the dollars are there for it and we're still not and we're actually decreasing our risk by increasing the fund balance. I think that policy question for you guys is, are these the right projects? I would put forward that as staff we think they are, but I mean, that's what we're trying to make sure that you guys are comfortable in that we're achieving the goals you guys laid out. Well, I guess I'm confused because you talk about increasing the fund balance, but the operational reserve is what's getting increased from 16% to 25%. Emergency contingency reserve. And is that part of the $16,800,000 that will be- That would be part of the ending carryover, which is the 9,933,7, page 9. I got page 9 in front of me. 9 million keep going because I don't, the only 9 million I see is transfers in. Okay, so if you go to the ending fund balance under the general fund? You're on the lower part of that page, right? Okay. Page 9 has two charts. Right. So yeah, so it's on both, it's actually at the top of the chart. Oh, I see. Ending fund balance. Yeah, so within that 999, 333, there is 25% of operating revenues, which is almost $3.9 million that set aside for emergency and contingencies. Is that always been our policy 3.9 million? I thought we had a threshold of five. Well, if you remember, we had started at one time we had said, well, let's just keep the total fund balance at around 5 million, not really thinking much about the different pockets that it was in, the different savings accounts that it was in. And then last year, the Financial Advisory Board and staff, we spent a lot of time walking through the what ifs. What if there was a wildfire, what if there was another bad recession, and they had recommended that we go with the 16%, which was the government finance officers associations recommendation. When Clint came on, Clint recognized as well the volatility of a low snow year, the tourist attractions at all. And so he recommended, I'd feel much more comfortable, especially if we're going to move forward with some of the infrastructure that we've put off during the recession, during the recession is moving that up to 25% and I don't know if you remember, in the financial advisory board recommendations, they also agreed with that recommendation. But that 25% is just one piece of this $10 million reserve. Yeah, so if you have page 20. And this is just the general fund, you know, budget summary. If you go to the bottom section of that page. Oh yeah that's the other one. Okay so you see the other one. I'm sorry. I gotta get over there now. I think it's called the right numbers. The right name. Those are the two pages I was back and forth the whole day long. Yep. Okay. Okay. So if you go to the bottom section and you see total fund balance, there's that 9,0933764. Yep. Okay. So that is broken out by all of those different categories. So at what this portrays is at 1231, so at the end of the year, what is that fund balance? How is it broken out? And this again is just for the general fund. We have multiple funds that we do accounting for, which are all in your packets. It's like doing accounting for 10 to 14 different companies. The general fund is our primary general government. So say the inventory. So at the end of 2016, we're anticipating we're going to have 160,000 of that 9.9 million in inventory. Well, inventory is typically what's sitting over in the shop, in their vehicle parts and supplies, in their gas tanks, those types of things. Prepaid expenses, those are expenses that we paid at the end of, say, 15, for the next year. It's not an expense until the following year. That's roughly around 100,000. These numbers vary each year depending on when we get the bill and paid the bill. So that would be like if we got the Workman's Comp Bill for 2016 December 20th, and we paid it on December 20th. So those are called non-spendable funds. The table reserved, that's required by state law, that's 3% of fiscal year spending. So that is also in addition to that emergency contingency reserve amount. Then you have the Town Hall Cougar Canyon. That was a, I think it was over 12 years, that they paid us $2.1 million. So we receive $180,000 from them per year. 90,000 we apply towards the COP for town hall. The other 90,000 we've been banking in this account here where there's now 1 million and 80,000 because this COP is not paid off until 2026. So we said- Those for plain baseball at home, the COP is a certificate of participation. It's the mortgage on this building basically. And so when that last payment, we received that last payment in 2017, then you'll see we're going to start then pulling out 90,000 each year until there's zero left in the bonds or the COPs are paid off. The Holy Cross enhancement fees, these are the funds we talked about at the last meeting. so that balances 795. Housing mitigation, these came through ordinances. This is a combination of part of it. We received from a popus annexation, and then part of it was a housing mitigation on a Ridge Ron home. Building equipment reserve. Council was presented with the SGM plan, the Shmizogorna and Meyer plan for the building and capital replacement reserve. So that consisted of annual maintenance on all of the towns, buildings and facilities and our boilers as well as setting up reserve funds to pay for major boiler replacements. How is that different than the CERF fund? Okay, so the reserve fund is for rolling stock. So those are for buses and vehicles, dump trucks, those types of things. Same thought concept, same procedures, but one's buildings, one's cars. The next one down is the road fund emergency reserve of $109,000. So when we went through with the financial advisory board on what we should be setting aside for each of these funds, they felt that the general fund could support the 16% reserve fund rather than the road fund and continue to free up the road fund monies to be used for overlays. So this is why it's sitting in the general fund. If base village grows and assessed value grows, and then we keep the mill levies at five for the road fund, then their revenue, they might get enough money in the revenues to set this aside over in their own fund. Okay, and so then the emergency, the 25% is the 3,886. So the total designations or reserves is 6.9 million. And then you see the yellow highlighted number, I'm hoping it's yellow on your page. It's called funds available. So you can see there's almost $3 million of extra funds. So those are funds that if a special project comes in or a special request comes in or the CIP, you have new projects for the following year of CIP. That's where you would typically take these funds out of. Marian, during the, I guess, height of the recession, were we running a deficit budget in the town? We had budgeted to, okay, so our balance budget philosophy for the town and for government is you try to have operating revenues exceed operating expenditures, but you also what you use is you also use your revenues and you use whatever spendable resources that you have, okay? So that's what the balance budget is made up of. During those years, we actually did budget to use reserves to balance the budget. But at the end of the year, the actuals, we never did. We never did touch it. And we never even went into our contingency funds. So we were able to basically we reduce the budgets with a fallback on using the reserves, but didn't need to use them. That's correct. And at the same time remember we did put in the transportation property tax, which was a five-year sunset property tax to help fund our bus service, so we didn't have to cut that. It's a little difficult to come onto this council. And the first year, see, a $11 million fund balance, if you will, accumulated surplus. And then, you know, in the first budget go around, cut a couple of million dollars out of that. It makes you wonder how difficult the rainy day is when the rainy day comes. I would say, I don't know, they were cutting out of the fund balance rather than, I mean, it's the same things that we're investing in infrastructure. And I recognize that a significant amount of the monies that are being taken from the various fund balances are going into capital equipment. Or capital improvement projects, rather than just using the right termination capital improvement projects rather than, I'm sorry, just using the right termination, capital improvement projects. And I mean that, I realize there has to be capital improvements every year, otherwise the infrastructure falls apart over a period of time. That review of these reserves was helpful. So thank you. of the proposed project budget. If my numbers add up and I just quickly counted them, there's 19 projects between Anne and Andy coupled with the poster project that's on their plate that I'm sure is going to continue to take time. And then a potential roundabout that's going to take the time for public works, which then leads into the question of doability. I think this is more than a Yomans task taking on the number of projects that are proposed with the leadership as suggested. I think it's overly ambitious and I think that it'd be helpful to set priorities within a prioritization as to which of these projects are more important than others, those which are nice to do versus need to do. And I looked at this, I think over two years versus one year that it might take to accomplish the number of projects. And there are no easy walk in the park. They're gonna take a lot of planning efforts, they're gonna take a lot of staff time and other staff time. So I want to make sure that the projects can be successful. The individuals leading the projects can be successful versus at the end of the year. what's up? So that's from a management perspective that's in a council perspective that's what am I concerns? And I think the way we set this up is we know what's aggressive but we wanted to push ourselves and we want to set those kind of stretch goals and I don't think your observations right on that there is a lot here and it might take 18 months it might take two years to get all these things done I'm not going to sit here and pound the table and say, these are, this is 12 months worth of work because I would be wrong. But what we wanna do is say, these are the priorities that were identified by staff. We think they're meeting the goals that are outlined by you. A lot of these projects go down parallel paths. We've got different personnel working on different types of projects for the roundabout. We will have that inspection contracted out to SGM. We won't have public work staff watching that project go forward. We will contract with our city engineer to do that kind of thing. So I think there's a lot of parallel paths that we can go down. And Anne's got a very competent staff that she can delegate to for a lot of these projects as well. And so, I mean, if it's all right with, I guess what I'm asking her proposing is, if we stuck with this project list, yeah, I agree that we might not get everything done. But I think this is a good opportunity for us to lay them out and start going down. And come next November, I might say, hey, we got 80% of them done. I'm going to ask for 20% of them to be rolled over. Here's our progo report, here's what happened, here's what didn't happen. Just like in the 15 budget, there's a couple of projects that we simply couldn't get forward because of some land issues and whatnot. We're just trying to say, we think this is the right slate of projects to take forward. And this is where we think the priorities need to be made. And we can afford it. We still got close to $3 million of unappropriated funds or undesonated funds in 17 when we're right. So are when we're done with ease. And so I think if you can be comfortable with this is the right prioritization of projects, and I think that would be in the right position to go forward. If there's some project that's missing or some big expenditure that's missing, I think that's, I definitely would want to understand that and see what you guys are talking about because that's, this is where those big projects come out of. Whatever those big ticket issues may or may not be. But if it's a matter of getting them done, I'm not going to sit here and give you the Joe name with. I guarantee it, but I guarantee that we'll try our best, but I think it's a good effort going forward. Yeah, Tom? The roundabout that's budgeted for $800,000, and then SGM has got its own $884 in there. How much of the SGM is involved in the $800,000 for the roundabout? Is that separated? The name got co-meangled. SGM is our engineering firm. Correct, I understand that. So that 800 is going to the roundabout. The 84th reserve account and SGM put it together for all the buildings. So they're two different projects. Okay. So the SGM has their own funds are included in around about 800,000. We call the building capital equipment reserve because SGM had put the plan together. We internally call it the SGM plan. We're trying to change it to, and I think I put the name in here, building equipment reserve. And so that's where SGM is not doing those projects. That is our internal staff doing those projects, or they're hiring a plumber or somebody else to come in and to do those. But those are projects that need to be done that are under the SGM design plan. But for the roundabout, that review expense, that inspection expense will be part of the overall project cost. So I guess again, my question is that 800,000 that's budget, the SGM budget, part of SGM budget is included in that 800,000 already. Or now. It's probably included in the total cost of the bill. The total $800,000. Well, the roundabout's going to be more like 5 million or so. For four. Yeah, so. But the budget we have, that's our contribution. Understand. OK. Marion, one of the things that confused me, while we're on the SGM subject for a moment, one of the things that confused me until just now, actually, when I figured it out, is there, there's $318,000 that's out of the general fund for, it's listed as other. And then when you look at the breakdown of the expenditures, it is designated like miscellaneous. So it was really hard for me to figure out what that number meant. And it was a significant number, $300,000. Isn't in actually in all of these, there are, if you could, and maybe what we should do is have Anne and Nick bring the plan back since none of you, Markie's seen it. But it is pages and pages of components. So like town park station would be one building, and within that building might be five pages of all the different components and what year those components have to be replaced. The recreation center, the town hall, all of those are part of this plan so a look at it and see if that money and I imagine there'll be money in next year's budget the same way as I as I'm understanding the project that that money perhaps in the in the expense budget worksheets could say something like whatever the name of the project is. Instead of instead of- It could be broken out between the different projects. I mean, I don't even know that it needs to be broken down into all those little pieces. And I know I, let me just see if I can tell a little bit. So like out of the 318,000, there is 217,000 that's being applied to our projects in town hall. So that could be boilers or roofs or something of that nature. There's 42 and 23 and another 10, a portion of all of the funds paid for a portion of what improvements have to be done at public works, because public work supports all of us. And so those are for public works projects, 8,200 and 15,000 little red school house and Pinto, Pinto Lane House. So they're broken out in summary form, I have it, but if you wanted to know which component was being replaced, that would be the bigger picture. I'm just trying to see if I had moved down the page number. And so to help you understand, so like the reserves, there's monies going in every year, which comes out of leftover revenues, over expenditures, or it might be reapplied from funds available. So each year, it's getting funded. It's roughly around 160 or so thousand. Terry in my department right now is working with Anne to see if we can try to level that off. So it's the same amount going in every year. And if we can still you know, a pay for those projects that need to be done. But we have one of these for the general fund, one for the rep fund and one for the road fund. So all of those are included in this, what we call the SGM plan. I want to ask one question. We know that we might be seeing some development across the street this next year. And part of that is a building that deals with something the town might own. Building six. Yeah, I have to be very careful so I don't get in trouble with Mr. Dresser. That makes sense. Mr. Dresser. I don't see any money in here for any work on what that might look like or architectural renderings other than what we saw. That's because all those responsibilities will be on the developer and the town wouldn't be expected to take ownership of that until 18. But we won't have to spend any money at all on our own little work. And we're sure we're gonna get what? We think we're gonna get. Well, that's for the land use. That's that's that's that's that's that's that's that. No, but I mean as far as I mean what the resolution, the council resolutions required for architectural programming and some other issues. And so you know, if it's gonna be no mass discovery, then you know, you've got to make sure the space is available for that. If it's going to be something else, then those dot architectural work is required to be part, you know, as the resolution was passed, that's a requirement right now. And so, no, there are no dollars. No contingency at all. There's no dollars specifically for that project. I mean, if we needed to come up with something, I mean, it's a $26 million budget, we could take from other projects or something, if something came up for sure. But it's not estimate, we don't anticipate having a direct expense for that design work next year. I want to go back to the projects, and this is my angst. We have a ton of projects on here, and what you stated, and I agree with it, it's a very aggressive calendar that may go over two years. If it's some of these projects carry over two years, why would we be appropriating money in 2016 for projects that may go in next year if we already know that? Well, I mean, a good example would be the community plan. It's $200,000 expense. We would expect to jump into that at the end of 2016. We know it's going to be fall at the earliest when we would start that process. Because we expect to get through poster, through CCP, through some other work, and then we'd want to go out for an RFP and get somebody on board to assist with that. In order to get that project up and going, we need to make sure we've got the dollars to do that with, in order to get somebody under contract to move and forward with. So I would expect the majority of that expenditure to be in 2017, but by appropriating the dollars in 2016, we can feel comfortable going under contract with that amount, saying, yeah, this is the scope of work we think is about right, and you guys can, you know, clarify that when we go through that effort But that you know that would be a good example of a project that's appropriate in 16 with the majority of the funds We would expect to be spent in 17 and There's a couple other projects. I'm sure I could jump through but that's the one that came right to my mind and the process Would be the same process that we did this past March where when I come in and I We do the same process that we did this past March where when I come in and I give you the year end update and I say, here's some things that were budgeted to be done in 2014 and they didn't happen like the buses was a big one. We had expected them by 1231. They didn't come in until January. So we didn't spend the money. So it's still sitting there, it was in the budget. So we just reappropriated it to be spent into the following year. It'd be the same kind of council. Well, and that becomes a philosophical issue. We're approving dollars. And then we get a variance report and it's already been approved. So we have to do. I mean, that's what I've noticed about our government over the years. I've said on council. I'm not sure what you're saying. Well, I'm saying that we go ahead and approve something in a budget. It doesn't happen, but it's been approved. It's a carryover into the next year. We never go back and revisit. Do we still want to do that? See what I'm saying? So when the minute that we approve something, such as all these projects, the notion is it's approved by council. If it doesn't happen, we've got the money so we can still start out in 20- We have to be reappropriated the next year. We re-approved? For the first 17, it certainly does. But if something were to come up, let's just say we get done with the CCP, and we have what, 75, 90, what sort of, we have? Which one are you looking for? 75,000 dollars in here to implement crossings on brush creek. Who's it from? If you all were to say, hey, you know what? We know we just adopted the CCP plan, but we're not really excited about these ideas that were put forth and adopted in it. We really don't think so. I mean, this is a budget document. It's not a mandate. I mean, this is our chance to weigh out a work plan for next year. And then if something were to come up and using that example that you didn't want to get done, it simply is a motion by the council. At that point say, hey, town manager, we know we appropriated the money. Don't move on it. I mean, the dollars are there. It's not, I mean, I still have to be responsive to my bosses, which are you guys, to make sure that I'm achieving the goal as you lay out. Same similar with bear with B3 true. Any other comments? Yeah, I'm just trying to see what I want to bring this. I guess if we go back to page 20 Marian to that page we're looking at and any the upper the upper Part of it shows You know total expenditures of the 14 I'm sorry 15 480 So forth right Then when I look at page 25 And then when I look at page 25, which has a line item that says, fun, total, general, fun for $16,144,000,000 change, it wasn't what I expected to see, I guess. And that's where you have to go back to these summary pages. And I have to tell you, I painstakingly went through and tried to make it as simple as possible so that I could print out where to find all the numbers so that you would understand that the numbers that are in the resolution are the numbers that are in these summary forms that are also in these numbers that are on all these these budget pages so the summary form is is page so if you let's see go to page if you go to page 9. Okay. Okay. And okay. And so like if you if you go to the bottom of the page, you'll see General Fund Total Revenue is 16144824, right? Yeah. And that's the number you were just looking at. So that number is made up of... Oh, excuse me. You know, I should, I guess I got to be more careful because no, I do see that there's a difference in the revenue, but it's made up of all these other transfers, ins and outs and- Yep, exactly. You have to total them all up for the grant total and the revenues and the expenditures. And also you also include the beginning balances as well. So that's what makes up the resolution. And I honestly, I battled in my head to try to make this as simple as possible. And I actually, and laughed at me this morning when I said, I even on my papers put a one in a one so that the piece says, where did this number come from? I can find it over here very easily for him. So I know it's an awful lot of information. It's like managing many, many different companies that is your job. know, your job. And ours. I just a reference point. We're talking very much into detail. If we look back over five years, five years ago, what was our total budget? And what is it today? If I remember right, we're looking about 34 million. I need, you know, I had just the general funds somewhere in this, as you can tell, I have myriads of- You got more paper than- I'm never sure what questions are going to- I just think from a policy question, when we see- I can tell you from- From like, because one of the questions I, honestly, I'm getting from staff is, why is budget taking so long this year? And I'm sorry, but because we've got many new members on the boards, and we're trying to help them to understand exactly what makes up the budget, but the basic budget hasn't changed over the years. The philosophy has remained the same. This year probably the differences would be adding that 25,000 are increasing that reserved to 25%. And then also the CIP, which again you haven't seen since the recession. And so- And then the surf fund. But when I went back to 2008 and I said, if I were to look back at what our revenues were in 2008, it was 14,760,5,000. And these are just actual numbers. We had about 13 million in expenditures at that time. That's two old thousand eight. And so but every year, if I take out one time time and if I take out those other expenditures, every year we have increased our fund balance. We have exceeded what we were budgeting to put away basically in that savings account to use for these types of projects and infrastructure. In 2008, we put almost $2 million, 2009, which is a year we really got hit. We put almost 454,000 and actually the same number in 2010. In 2013, we put 1,444,000. And so our operating revenues historically exceed our operating expenditures. Those funds then go into that bottom part of what I showed you were the designations and the reserves. And then it's up to you guys to say, okay, you know what, we feel comfortable with this 25% sitting in here and reserved. Here's funds available. We'd like to use some of it for this project or that project. But back to my question, that was 2008. We had a revenue about 14 million in expenses, a 13 million. A 13 million. But yeah, if you're looking at it today. That's when we started having to ratchet down. Right, right. But what is our expenses today? Total expenses? If you look on page, this is the red page nine, like that top line for the general fund. So it apples to apples, 15.4 million for revenues, 14.9 for expenditures. Well, the 2008 revenue, that's total revenue and all the funds, correct? No, this is general funds. It's about a million, I mean, it's still, that's the apples to apples comparison. Right, right. So, not to overly simplify this whole project, but the reason we've got this list and the 25% contingency is because we can. Correct. That's exactly right. And I would just go one step further. It's hopefully reaching those goals that you guys laid out in March. Right. Councillor Shankar staring at me. Well, yeah, I totally agree. All right. Councillor Schenk, you're staring at me. Well, yeah, I totally agree. No, no, I think Councillor Schenk's got something she wants to use it looking at me. Before I forget though, I just, there is something that came up in our discussions with John Dresser last week that we should add, essentially he requested of us to increase the budget for outside council to $50,000. For this next year as well. What's in the way of that? to wear that. If you are looking to approve the resolution, you could make that as an amendment to add that in. Okay. I just didn't want to forget that. Good catch. I can do that. There was a note. Yeah, you do with memory. I'll listen. I just want to bring it up again, but it's going to go back to the schools. I mean, I know that we have talked about, you know, putting drosti money towards it in what, 2016? Wasn't that it? When it expires. But I mean, I am concerned. And I think that having young kids in the school and knowing that this is like the beginning of their school career, we need to maintain good schools. And it is just as much the onus of snow mass as it is a baspen because it's the same school district. And I'm not saying that we need to carve out necessarily $500,000 out of this budget, but I think that we need to plan for the fact that if one of these other means by which we're going to try to collect the money doesn't work, we need to be prepared for that. And I think that there's a lot of families that are living in snow mass village right now. And one of the reasons why they live here is because of the school system. And I think we need to really look at that. Can't deny it. Clinton I had a conversation about whether the public or the property tax could if it's not an option could we look at rethinking rent as of increasing that percentage. We've got a lot of work to do on that. That answers no. Well, unless you go back into. State statute doesn't allow for, you can't increase rent, you can't repurpose rent. Unless you go back to the electorate, right? Nope. Not an option. You can't, you just, no. New or increased? No, yeah. So, the red is not an option for that funding source. Well, poop. I thought I found a silver leaning force. All right. Okay, thanks for doing that homework. Well, oh, Kido ki. Is there any other questions on the budget? We pretty well beat this up. Not for me. If you guys would like you can pass the resolution this evening. It's just that to me it seems you know being new of course and the numbers are overwhelming. The expense budget worksheet reports. When I look at those and I spent I spent a lot of time looking at them. And some of the, I wish I knew not like it made a difference, but since I had that in front of me, when you listed the department number, like department number eight division, so and so. If I'm gonna look at this, I kind of like to know what the part in eight is or what. Yeah, and we're available anytime. No, I understand. I mean, my point is it's all new to me, of course. And there's a lot of numbers getting hit with me right away. But I do the most I guess the biggest issue for me is isn't we have a lot of questions? Oh my god. We have a lot of projects going on a lot of big projects. Clint, you email me back and said you know and I got that but this piece of paper explains the biggest project that all the projects all at once. And we have a lot going on. And as Billy said, the fact that we're able to increase that general fund from 16% to 25% looks like we're doing okay. So. And it increases the size of the safety net. I mean, it gives us some more flexibility going forward. And, you know, we've got roughly $3 million. I'll call it for future projects after 16. And that's when we start, you know, getting more in detail in this future CIPs, it's going to come down to, hey, how do you guys want to do that? When you read our budget policies, there's the ongoing revenue, ongoing expenses, one-time revenue, one-time expenses, clearly that fund balance would be called funds available, those are clearly one-time revenues. I mean, you don't get to spend that savings account twice. And so we try to put those towards capital, but that's stuff that will continually bring back to you to make sure that it is in fact where you want to make that investment. So just the clarification, the total expenditures in the town next year is 44 million. It's the general operating or the general fund, which is 18. It's 32, isn't it? It's, you know, it's 73. There are two parts to the resolution that don't, again, that show two different numbers. There's Section 1, which is page 10, which says the general fund is 18,990,000, and the total fund expenditures are 44 million. And in section two, it says the following sums are appropriated and the general fund operating expenditure is 14,985. Okay, so if you look at page 10 and you see the general fund, the 1809O. Yeah. Okay, then if you go to page 11, I highlighted total expenditures. So that's what makes up the 18090. And all of those expenditures, you will find on the original sheet that we looked at that showed you the appropriations and designations enough. That's where you're going to find all of those individual numbers. The last resolution, I had them lumped together because I know what they are and I know that they were lumped, but I tried to break them out so that you could find them if you went back to the budget summary pages. So in reality, the budget for the town, the all-in budget is $44 million. Expenses. Oh, I'm sorry. Are the oil inexpensive? Well, yes, the expenses. Yeah, and what it does, too, is it captures the transfers, too. Yes. But the transfers actually wash each other out because the true expenditure actually sits in one fund. So you have to kind of take that into consideration. If you were to look at just the expenditures, there's like about 30, 32, 6, and then if you look over in the other expenditures is another million, six, so it's around 33, 34 million. And then there's about 9.8 million in transfers between funds and those are the transfers. Red, Rode, CIP, Sir, follow those. Yeah, I follow you and it's just the way the accounting is required. You actually double count them. Yeah, yeah. But on your financial statement you'll see that it'll just have just the revenues it'll just have just the expenditures then there'll be a bottom section that'll show you transfers and transfers out and that they zero out. So if I'm writing the storyline for tomorrow. Okay. In fact, or I have to do an elevator speech in three minutes or less. What is our total revenue for this town and what is our total expenditure? Can I give a shot and you can correct me, balls? Absolutely. Just see if this is close and you can read out it around. But revenues next year are projected to be 20, I'm going to go with $28. I'm going to get to my right chart, sorry. I'm going to round real quick. Revenue's next year expected to be for the entire community, $28 million expenditures are about $32 million. We are maintaining ongoing revenues with ongoing expenses, and that $5 million Delta I just talked about is largely invested in one time projects. Their investments in infrastructure and other items that we think are necessary for the town. So because of our fiscal conservative nature, the last many years we've been able to save up a large number of dollars. We're now taking those, we are doing two things. One, we're increasing our bottom line of our savings account to 25% with dollars over and above that 25% amount, we're investing in an infrastructure. That would be my elevator speech. And when you had talked about the total carry over dropping by say six million at the end of the year, as Bob pointed out, almost five million of that is CIP. And then there's another 800,000 that's going towards the roundabout. And so there's 5.8 out of the six. So those are the biggest projects. Okay. So with the adjustment for attorney fees or outside council, which will adjust the general fund. Do I have a motion for approval of resolution number 31 series of 2015? So moved. Thank you, Bob. Do I have a second? Second. Thank you, Bill. Do we have further questions? All in support? Hi. Hi. Oppose? Hi. Hi. I suppose. It carries unanimously. Thank you very much. A lot of work. Thank you. Thanks for all your work, Mary. You're very welcome. I'm always available. I said if you want to come in and learn about all the different funds and what the money. You did it, Mary Ann. I know I did it a full day of Mary Ann. Mary Ann had a full day with Marquee. It was all, it was a great learning, but I pray it's time for us. It's great for us too, because it helps us do our job better and more than you understand as well. So thank you. So see you next time. Me too. OK. That's now 5 o'clock. I'm just going to move them outside to doing that. I'll carry them one by one up. Are you all fine or do you need a break? Do you give us one minute? Okay, we're going to take a quick five minute here. This is a request of council to look at all of our wonderful guidelines that have been adopted, adapted, modified, every switchway for Sunday. When you guys adopted your goals in March, it was one of the things you said was, hey, let's go ahead and look at some of the needs and desires of housing programs, see some successes in the last 30, 35 years and figure out what we want to do going forward. So the way we thought we'd start the discussion with you tonight, at least, is to say, hey, here's the rules that we have in place now. Here's the guy here, and answer any kind of specific questions that you guys have. So you kind of have the background to move something forward if you want. And Joe and Terry are the experts. And on that note, I'm handing out to them. Okay. And they'll hand off to you and they'll say, what do you want to know? So there you go. Okay. Anyone know? So there you go. Okay, in the packet, I've included a short memo and the PMH guidelines. PMH guidelines are the permanent code which is the housing chapter. Over the years the councils have tried to make the snowmast village housing serve the snowmast village locals first and saying that I mean the snowmass village local is someone we consider that works 1,400 hours a year in snowmass village within 8 to 12 months a calendar year. So a seasonal worker that works up here six months a year on the mountain and works in Aspen the other six months is not a snowmass village employee. So in order to you know to meet this criteria you have to work on the mountain in the in the summertime or in the winter and then work somewhere else in the summer up here in snowmass. Okay. So you know we've had this discussion a few times and about the guidelines and how picking county employees fit into these guidelines and and how do we how do we serve you know more people within the community that serve us. And it comes up periodically about school district employees, hospital employees, raft, sheriff's department. You have a lot of people that serve snowmass. And in all honesty, we have a limited amount of housing to offer. I mean, we have a sizable amount for our little village. But the sales units, when they come open, you know, most of the time we have anywhere from five to 15 people going for these units. The average is probably six or seven people. And these people that enter these lottery are full-time snowmast people. They're working up here year-round. We still do the lottery based on employment tenure. So we have tiers. And the longer you've worked in snowmast, the more chances you get to buy a condo or a single-family home. The rental units are different. They're given out by employment tenure as well, but they're managed solely by us and we take care of all the rental units. I guess what I need to tell you is, in 2009, the last council said, we're a couple of councils ago, requested that I put together a housing advisory committee. And what this consisted of was five local citizens. And these five citizens were very dedicated. We started at the front of these guidelines and we went all the way through. Each line, every page, took over a year to do this. We spent hours on the lottery tears that we have today. And those lottery tears are on I think we worked on that over three or four meetings, why not? And we kept talking about okay how do we fit hospital workers into our housing? How do we fit school teachers into our housing? How do we fit all these people that serve the community and our housing. And the discussions just, they went on and on and then the end, the Housing Advisory Committee recommended to the town council in 2009 that we allow Picking County employees to enter our lotteries but they're gonna be in the last tier after all the snowmass village employees. So if you look at the chart they're in the sixth tier and over the last three years the last two years we haven't sold it one unit to a picking county employee but two three years ago we haven't sold it one unit to a pick in county employee but two three years ago we did we sold three units and it kind of goes in cycle sometimes there's there's different units that different people want so like three years ago we built a lot of housing up here we had Sinclair Meadows was finishing up and we had rodeo place that had been finished up. So we had a surplus of housing. So I think we had housed most of the snowmass employees at that time in 2013. And that's why we had three units that we sold to Picking County employees. And today a Picking county employee is still welcomed in these lotteries and we encourage them to but in all likelihood most of the units recently have been going to snowmass village employees. How about rental units, Joe? In rental units, the last rental unit that I rented to a Picking County employee was October of 2013. So since October of 13, every rental unit has been rented to a Snowmass Village employee. Our guidelines require you to be a snowmass employee when you first sign up, when you first begin running. But if you change jobs after that, we don't ask you to move, we won't transfer you to another unit, you're stuck where you are unless you're working in snowmass. And then if you're working in snowmass, we'll move people around and try to accommodate them. If you're not working in snowmass, we kind of let them stay where they are. And eventually people will move on if they don't like where they are here in snowmass. Mostly to be closer to their job, most of people will move into Aspen or down Valley, it seems like. So, you know, you'll hear that, yeah, there's some picking county employees in the housing, yeah, there is. There's quite a few really. I mean, not a large amount. There's probably 10 to 20% could be working in Picking County part time. We have to remember that Snowmass is still a small community and there's shoulder seasons here that employees sometimes struggle working up here 12 months a year. So Terry and I do the best we can on putting people in that our full time employees to serve this village. So that's kind of where the guidelines are today. Well, you know, we're all aware that many people have to work more than one job to be able to maintain an income that allows them to live here. How does that work towards this 1,400 hour requirement of working in snow mass. That's a good question, that's the requirement. And 1,400 hours a year, you know, 280 is a full-time job, 2,080 hours. So 1,400 hours is, you know, about half a year's work at full time. When you divide that out, it comes out to about almost 28 hours a week. So, if people get real, if people are 1400 hours or a little more than that, then that's the people that we're trying to house first. Both in the rentals and in the sales. And that's the requirement. Joe, the applications for rental obviously, late summer and fall probably are overwhelming. And then those applications, if those people, do they wait a full year before that application dissolves? That $20 fee? And how often does the $20 fee go to the clouds in the housing department? What's the percentage? You must have some idea that you, because like this time of year, how many applications do you have for rental? Off the top of your head. Yeah, we have around, we have around 150 right now. Time's 20. Time's 20. Then how many can you fill into a spot out of 150? Right now, the turnover or the vacancy season is pretty much past. We stay full year round and that's our goal. In April we're 100%. We have some units turning but we fill them as quickly as they turn or that's what we try to do. So right now we have 150 people on that list come next April when Terry starts calling and we have five units to rent. They're moving out. We'll be out 40 people maybe. Maybe. And that'll be 40 people who are still up here full time working 1,400 hours a year. And aren't seasonal because we get a lot of seasonal people trying to get in as well. But we do checks and try to make sure that the people we're putting in are full time. So I guess my point is that there's a financial gain for the housing somewhat every year through the applications, correct, where those applications, because it's not refundable. It goes and every year they want to be on the list, they have to put another $20 down. No, no. It's a one time fee. Tom, if you signed up 10 years ago unless they leave town for five years and you come back and you go Joe I want to sign up again I probably have your application. No I guess I thought it was a one-time fee. It's a one-time but last pretty much forever. Okay we can reactivate the out. Okay that's great. It's not uncommon for us to react, reactivate someone who's signed up five to ten years ago. Somebody that's ruled down Valley because they couldn't get housing. Right. They're still involved. They could possibly get a phone call. Oh, sir. It goes on the sustainable report we had last week. One of the goals was to house as many people that they possibly could that want to live in snowmass. And I asked them how it was going and it wasn't going very well at that point. Well, we're full. Yeah. How do you achieve turnovers in some of the property? And what... and some of the property. And what this leads into a broader strategic question that I'm very concerned about, Bill Manson, and I were talking just briefly at the break. We don't have a, we have absolutely no strategy yet. We talk about it. That's what we do, we talk about aging in place and how we move people through that continuum of living arrangements. And where we might be with our community partners of ease of the city of Aspen, Pitkin County, et cetera. We know that the project in Basalt went by. So we don't have independent, we don't have assisted living other than what we have at Wiccom Terrace, which is woefully undersized. So there's no strategies at all that I see other than we talk and we put it on a work plan on the various organizations and boards I sit on. How do we begin to accelerate that and then how do you begin to achieve that strategic turnover and some of our properties? I don't have the answer for that. I don't either. I can tell you my thoughts and housing advisory committees thoughts because this was a topic that we discussed for hours as well about people in employee housing who are no longer employees who have retired and how do we shift people around maybe get them into smaller units or possibly buy them out or whatever method you might choose to open up some units to other employees. But in the end, the Housing Advisory Committee thought that these people, and I think this too, that these people have earned their places up here. They've worked for years up here to get these employee housing units. If they want to retire in these units, after they've been working for so long in this village, so be it. And the Housing Advisory Committee did not want, they did not want to be the person that told someone they had to sell or move on because they're not employed now. And that's a tough. Well, the job goes broader than that. Question, you know. It's not kicking people out of their homes. That's the wrong connotation to put on it. But what you began to see in the empty nester is why do we need this big home? OK. The bedrooms. Second of which is health care in of itself and the needs of our community are changing to the point where we don't have a lot of single floor homes or apartments and as you think about those who are aging in their homes, most of them have stairs. Most of them, most of the homes around here have little, we have very few adaptable units. So we are not planning for the future needs of the community to keep people in our community because there is nowhere to go. And I think from a strategic policy perspective, if we could begin to host a forum of what that might look like with our partners in Pick and County and City of Aspen, I think collectively we might be able to come up with some type of a summit. I don't know what you would call it. We talk about it, we don't do anything. So if I have, and I, for example, my own home, yes, I own it, but I look at what are my options if I want to live on one story. Right. I got to move down, I don't want to move down, do I say that any type of a CCRC continuing care retirement community would have to be located in snowmage? Absolutely no way. But I think if we as a community and we as a town really desire to maintain this wonderful group of people that are living here, contributing here that want to continue to participate and recreate here. I think it's part of our duty to begin to invest in how we might be able to do that, not only now but into the future. So, you know, so would you see that as a, using you as an example, not that you're going to retire anytime soon, but I mean, I don't know if that is a private sector solution or is that a kind of a, I think it could be a land use code. I think it could be a public private. Yes, it's public private situation. I think it could theoretically encompass all the communities in the valley from Glenwood all the way up. I almost see it and maybe this is because of my limited experience on this Rwapa board where you've got representation from Glenwood and Carbondale and Basalt and here and Aspen and Kikin County, you know, you've got You've got some serious players, you know in in the municipal market and and You and I suspect that you bring in the hospitals at both ends, you bring in the hospice. And you have some real decision makers and people who are really in the forefront of what's going on in aging and aging in health care. I mean, not to harken back to your last discussion, What's going on in aging and aging and health care? Yeah, not the hard-come-back to your last discussion, but one of the things that you guys do with the budget, the 16 going forward, is you made sure that all the revenues that are generated by housing stay in housing. And so obviously Joe's got that 3.2, right? And the 3.2 million dollar innovation project next year, which is the top priority for lots of good reasons. But after that, I think that would be, I mean, if you guys said, hey, we wanted to participate with others and those types of things. I mean, you've taken the initial steps to say, we wanna keep housing dollars focused on housing solutions. And I think. I mean, I think there's another issue in turning away from the decision of what do you do with people who have been in their homes for many years in our retiring. And that is, we don't create any new places for the new employees, the younger people to come and find a place to live. So what happens to them? They have to go down valley, they become part of the traffic problem and we just basically are, we're aging our community. We're aging our community without really having an opportunity for younger people to come in and live in our community. We're creating our own problem. We are. Bill and I were talking about this too. about this too. We recognize that there seem to be very little space left in snowmass to build. And it is wonderful to have and be surrounded by the beauty that we are surrounded by. But it may reach a point where it is detrimental to the growth of our town. I mean, we may not be able to grow anymore. And in today's society, today's civilization, if you can't grow, you die. And so that's really part of this. We have a dilemma in snowmass, you know, that's really part of this. We have a dilemma in snow mass, I think, because we don't have a lot of space. And I guess we really can't start too soon to try to figure out how to find our way out of this. That's a good seven to 10 year solution. And we're the people that are turning 65 and older, which is the baby boomers. This county alone is going more than 20% over the next 10 years. Same with Garfield County, same with Eagle. And collectively, we Ego County step forward and worked to create a CCRC. The downside is no one wants to take Medicaid. So that's when it needs governmental support may be required, short term and long term for sustainability. And over the years I've learned that many of the worker bees who retire here don't have the capacity to be able to afford nursing homes because of the per-dem rate. So as we think about strategy, I think it's very inherited upon us to begin to figure out how we might approach this issue with our following governmental entities and get it on the page. I've been sitting here for seven years and we talk about it. And in fact, in our comprehensive plan, this goes back to 2010. We did not have our own planning commission and council willing to put a notion of aging in place within our comp plan. And guess what's happening all around us? We're aging in place. So I want to get it off of my soapbox. No, that's fine. I understand. You know, snowmasses, unfortunately, there's not a lot of flat land up here. So it's really even tougher in snowmass village than it is on their places within the county. Better flat, yeah. For a housing project of this nature, I think. We, the town, we still have a piece of land down to rodeo grounds that's relatively flat. It's really ideal for duplex units. We've already looked at that and we have some rough sketches and plans for some duplex units over there but that's probably the flattest parcel we have left right now. I mean, and we have the draw parcel up here but that's not flat. Yeah, that's very, very steep and that's going to be a tough location for young people. Just because of the geography and elevation gain. So where are your priorities for the next development? You've got the draw we talked about and down it. Seven stars is it off of a real place? Correct. Probably my focus over the last few years has been on the renovations trying to take care of. We just finished up rodeo place a few years ago. Now we have these other properties that are aging and we creak you know, we just renovated those buildings this year. Next year, the plans are to do palisades and brush Creek. And that'll give those properties a facelift. And then probably next would be some interior renovations over at Mountain View. But that could be 2018, 2019. So we still have some renovation work to do on our existing properties. But, you know, probably the most likely or the easiest site to develop would be the seven star property if if the council chose to To move ahead with another project And how many units do you think you could put down there? We wanted bill we kind of wanted to match what we have at rodeo place meaning duplex type units So we were thinking anywhere from 9 to 12, I believe. And we were thinking about doing a mixture of 2s, 3s, and maybe a few 1 bedrooms. Because right now our inventory on 1 bedrooms is really low compared to 2 bedrooms. And the one bedroom might fit that site well too because the size pretty limited because you have the slope that comes down and there's 30% slopes that back up to the property. So it's a pretty restricted site but it's a nice site. And how many units do you think you could potentially get in the draw? We've looked at numbers from 50 to 90. We had market actual rendering, so it's about what I remember, it's 50 to 90. I think around 50 or so is a good number to think about for the draw. Yeah, very expensive because of the location. But you know, when, and Clinton, I've been talking about this as well as Terry and I, and when base village finishes up, then, you know, there's going to be a bigger demand than there is up. Then, you know, there's gonna be a bigger demand than there is now. And there's gonna be more full-time year-round jobs. And that's where the housing departments. That's what we try to do. We try to fill the full-time year around jobs, those employees. And we don't really rent, you know, to seasonal employees that often unless they're working two seasons. And the ski company handles more or less the seasonal housing at Club Commons, which has been very beneficial. They house a lot of employees down there. And a lot of employees come winter and summer to club commons. And that's a very successful project, I think. From what I understand, they can only stay one season, is that right? I think so, because we get a lot of calls saying, yeah, we have to move this year. And sometimes we're able to help those people if they've worked up here enough seasons and how it's it's truly based on seniority for both rentals and sales and the longer you've worked up here the higher your priority is to get a rental unit or a sales unit. Is the school site property a possibility for employee housing? I don't know. I think it is, but you know that's another site that's going to be pretty expensive to develop because I don't think the infrastructure is very close. I think it's going to cost a lot to get the water and sewer over there. And the school site really has been talked about as it was, talked about as a school or golf course expansion at one time. Because we looked at the country day was after that piece of property and that went down. Yeah very It was Community angst and that went down pretty quickly unanimously by a previous council but that area Does there is a sunset provision coming? I do think on part of that site, where the pasture is. And that's coming due, which I understand might be part of an application coming in. I think there's two different sites. The site you're talking about is the pasture, and then adjacent to that is the school site. I understand. I don't know the covenant restrictions or any kind of, I don't know the restrictions on the school, what everyone refers to is the school site. The site you're talking about the past year, from what I understand, it can either be golf course or past year and those are pretty much the two options. Right. If that can be. Right. I mean, Joe and I, Terry, we sit around and kind of brainstorm about some of these things. I mean, there are varieties of options out there. And there's some housing potential that could be renovated. And maybe we partner with somebody to renovate. You know, someone's always talked about, hey, do we spend big dollars? There's plans done back in the 90s showing housing and Transportation on the numbered lots and inner you know inner twining the those the transit units and the housing It takes dollars for sure to do But I think I mean those are things that we continually explore we tried and figure out and When we when we have these discussions, I mean it kind of boils down to my mind and I'm oversimplifying. But, you know, rental units have a tremendous benefit and ownership has a tremendous benefit. And you try and I think I know what Joe and his staff try to do is try to find the balance between those two benefits. One is really kind of an economic development benefit. You got to have the staff here fill the positions to make sure the town and the resort can run. And I think it's fair to say that those rental units really fill that really well. And then the ownership, the deed restricted really helped, they do that as well. But then they also kind of because they're less transient, they fill community. And so between everybody working together the two types, I know we, I say we loosely, my whopping one year being here, but I know for 35 years, Joe has tried to find that balance between those two types of units because they do serve a little bit of different need. I mean, everybody benefits from both of them, but there's a balance between those two types is critical. What about property down valley? I mean for housing and developing down here and that could be considered stage two until you get into stage one or something along that line. Has that been thought of, Joe? It has, Tom. The last council, we looked at that a little bit And it really didn't go too far because like basalt, I don't think really wants to house our employees. And I don't know if Carbondale does. And the last council kind of ended on, let's try to house as many employees as we can in snowmass and when we run out of absolute opportunities here in snowmass, let's look elsewhere. That's kind of what was decided. I think elsewhere is here, especially if the potential happens across the street. It's, you know, where everybody's going to be optimistic in the next four years that something might happen over there and it might be time to look elsewhere. We probably need to spend some time on strategic planning for that purpose as a council. I'm sure Joe didn't anticipate that we might be talking about looking elsewhere. And what's available, what could it, you know, what could we house there, what could go there. I think it fits into a huge puzzle. Where the pieces are kind of not together yet. It does. And you know, the goal of this department in which, you know, I work for the council is that we want houses many employees up here in snowmasses we could. And that kept employees closer job and kept them off the road, it reduced the traffic impacts, it kept employees happy because if they can walk to work theoretically, you would think they'd be happier than having to commute for half an hour or an hour, you know. So that has really been our goal. And, you know, there's some infill sites around that we have. That we could build a few units here or there. I mean we can't build a we don't have the property to build a large complex unless we do something in the draw but there's some small sites that we already have where we can maybe add a building or two and increase we could maybe have a building or two and increase some of the inventory. And like Clint was saying the numbered lots. I mean if you want to invest the money and the housing is really necessary, you could build some housing and conjunction with the parking lots up here and it would work probably and and um the few years ago a couple of years ago Russ Forrest and I were we met with Bikin County and we were looking at the carriageway property but the price was still it was really high for what we could develop in the end. It was gonna take a tremendous subsidy and we were gonna have to go in, we were gonna split it with the county, which was okay. But it was still on the high side when we finished with the, looking at the plans for the county units where we were gonna get. Yeah. Joe, I wanna come back to the school district for a minute. Okay. And kind of offer you maybe a different perspective than what you've been thinking about. When the school district was here, they are telling us that Housing for teachers is like one of their major problems and major priorities so I I look at I look at the various groups of employees that you mentioned at the beginning. Pickin County, Raffta, Sheriff's Department, the school district, hospital. And I think that, I guess my approach is to take subsets of those groups rather than think of it as a group. So I would think of teachers separately from school district employees. If the teachers are leaving because they can't find housing, then look at prioritizing for teachers, not prioritizing for administrative staff, not prioritizing for teachers. It's set it up on a for a limited time and measure the results and see if there's any difference in teacher turnover that can be attributed to the fact that there's more housing. Wow, I could say how about the nurses over? Well, I'll come back to that. Okay. I'll come back to that. I think they can't be an employee of physicians. I think that nurses, technical people should be from the hospital can be in that same category because to me, a teacher is a technical person, right? They are the nuts and bolts of what makes that school work, just like the doctors, nurses and technicians, are the nuts and bolts of work that make the hospital work. So that's the kind of example that, or the kind of picture that I see and I would I don't know I would I'm thinking Even to go as far as Attempting to set up on a rental in the rental program you know a percentage of units to be set aside for those groups at least in the first couple of years to see if in fact this makes any difference. Now I know I'm making a lot of people out there unhappy because it's giving a priority to a particular group. But I personally think that is as important as finding money to give to the school district to balance their budget. So that's one of the concepts. We've kicked these things around a little bit, the pie is what it is right now. We've got all our apartment, all our rental units and all our deed restricting units we've got. That's the size of the pie. And if all we're trying to do is redistribute the sizes of each one of those slices, it's zero, here and there, I thought if we're really trying to enhance For example teachers or doctors or nurses pick it out Why would we not try and get more strategic partnership with those different organizations and then grow the housing Grow that housing opportunity and say we would benefit by having teachers live in this community no doubt I mean all those types of economic analysis analysis, but rather than splitting our existing pie, let's grow the pie. Well, I have no problem looking at it from that perspective. The only downside to that is the time frame that it takes. But we absolutely should be doing that. I wonder what the Aspen Affordable Housing Group does in terms of prioritizing for particular skills, which is what really I'm talking about. I don't think they do. I think they've had this discussion as well. I mean, when we were with the housing, when I had housing advisory committee together. We talked about emergency workers. We talked about firemen. We talked about ambulance workers. We talked about everybody. And they were saying, okay, Joe, if you just allow certain people from these organizations in the housing. And that's going to put you in an awkward situation of, yes, you can have housing. No, you can't because you're not a technical person. And that's what the Housing Advisory Committee thought. They thought, okay, if you're going to let a hospital worker in, you should let the office administrator in, as well as a nurse or a doctor, anybody that works for that organization. But the good thing about the sourcing department and about snowmasses, you can make the rules. And the code just says that you have to have a public hearing and the council, you know, you'll take public feedback and then you can, the council can adjust these rules the way you see fit. And that's the way it's set up. So I understand that there's there's some people that that really need housing, but like Clint was saying the pie is only so big and where you're going to be given out some of these units to people that could not be that may not be full-time snowmass, which is something that we've never done. Well, I think you're, for me, I'm drawing a very fine line if, if someone teaches at the Aspen District School System, which is the snowmass school district and snowmass school system, and you don't call them working in snowmass school district and snowmass school system and you don't call them working in snowmass. They're working for snowmass. So I find that really to be, and maybe even more so than the school district that in the hospital, but I find that to be a very fuzzy line. Well, you know, Clint is right about, we only have so much pi. And when you had 150 applications for rental unit, some of those may have been teachers. Some of them may have been physicians. I don't know who they were. The challenge gets into discriminatory treatment to an extent, which before we would go down that path of doing so, I would want to make sure we would have any type of policy where you're identifying priorities that we don't butt up against the civil rights law on discrimination. But I hear where Bob is coming from. I echo a lot of those sentiments. At the same time, these are the issues that we need to solve with our public partners, whether it be Pickin County and Aspen, to try to do this within our limited housing. Reserve, I think, will create more problems for you and Terry and for future councils. So, to me, it's a strategic policy with partnership going back even to the issue around aging. They've got the issues and Aspen. We all know that. So, I think some joint partnering might be helpful. That's what my thinking is. And for tonight's discussion, we know you said, hey, let's start the discussion. What we want to do is to lay out the rules. So here's the rules we are operating by. Very fair. And I know we all are affectionately refer to him as Joe's and Terry's rules, but they're really, well, exactly. As he points out, they're really the rules adopted by the council. And so, yeah, we joke they were trying to make their life easy. These are the strategic decisions made by the council at the time to say, as a community, we're better off making sure that folks that work in town can live in town. And for all the reasons it was listed traffic, all those kind of things. And so if that's going to be something we want to explore and say hey maybe we need to expand that benefit or who's benefiting from that housing. I mean that there's not a right or wrong on those kind of things. That's the sort that we need the leadership from the council to say what do you want to do it and how do you want to tap into it? Those kind of things. That gets back into a summit with our colleagues. Yeah, even before you got into summit, I would say, if you guys could say, here's what we're aiming for, then that would be super helpful going into a summit saying, this is what we think, the five of us think ought to be happening, and what we're going to commit to future steps. How about we come back and revisit that now that we've laid it out there in terms of what we would consider as the objectives and the priority so we could. It gives us all food for thought over the next few weeks and how about we revisit this conversation. First of the year after we get through December. Hopefully you can. Bill? Well, you know, there's nothing new here. It's always been a problem back in the 70s. You know, everybody before the internet and everything, everybody waited around in front of the Aspen Times to either find a job, a find an apartment on Thursday. You know, there were no cell phones, so the public phones were limited too. So this is nothing new, this has been going on. So, but now we do have communication, but more communication between other communities in the valley, I think it is time to do it globally. I'm going to say globally in the valley to get other opinions and see where we can expand. Yeah, and really try and find those places where we could expand. I mean, what are the potential and are there places that we haven't really any rocks we haven't turned over I know we've got a redevelopment of the water in sand. I don't know if there's gonna be an opportunity to build something down there but I mean I think anything that we can do to try and Find some places would be great find some places would be great. Joe, that was a great summary that was in our packet. Both you and Terry are to be commended. It was extremely well done. Thank you. That was very clear and very accurate. It really does give us a historical perspective. So on behalf of Council, we want to thank you for this update. And it was a good conversation with we want to thank you for this update and it was a good Conversation with everyone so thank you. Okay. Thank you Next is town council reports and updates Clint Nothing You're you guys are the town council. I'm just the bureaucrat. Yeah, you're a beard a cratt too. You're the cratt. I'm gonna steal that one actually. I want to tell you my kid now on the other mind. My kid calls me a bureaucrat. I enjoy it. Is this permanent? No, just in November. Maybe December. Maybe, maybe through March. We'll see. Santa Claus time. Ask my bride, so let you know. Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Joe. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Teri. Thank you. Thanks, Teri. Thank you. OK, I'm going to turn to my right. Tommy, do you have anything? I have nothing. My first meeting with TORS December 17th in Carbondale at 830 in the morning. I'm looking forward to it. Great boy. And I'm looking forward to it. Thank you very much for your willingness to take that appointment. Thank you. I guess I'm going to throw some thought out. This kind of goes back a few weeks to Rondas. How do we do it? How do we do it? And the review of the recall. And it appeared that there were some curves in that process that we didn't know about and some other things that I just happened during that process. In any case, I was wondering if anyone else thought it might be useful to write, to draft up a guide for doing a recall, doing recalls, if we should have another one for any reason. But it's... I don't know, I throw it open. I'm just throwing it open. Here's the difficult part. Right now the charter says you defer to state statute. The state statute says that the governor sets the recall and the governor's office said, we're not touching that with the 10-foot poles on you guys. Yeah. And so, I think in order to, it's not just to write a guide, it's going to take substantive legislative changes to make it a more clear effort. And I think, I mean, if the effort was, let's clean it up and make it more clear. Yeah, but I don't think just writing that kind of a white paper to say, here's how you do it. I think that would be difficult because our charter is in conflict, our charter calls a statute which is in conflict with the governor's office. And the next governor might change his or her mind too. And so I think an easier, I don't know, it's easier, but a more long-term solution to that is, you know, look at the charter maybe and say, hey, do we want to make this a little bit clear on how we do it? And rather than defer to the state statute, we refer to election law and some things that Ron has shaken at me. Like, I'm doing it right, right? So she's the green. That might be a little bit more permanent solution to something a lot more. That may be a very, you know, I don't think our father is ever contemplated. We'd have to go through this and now that we've been through it it may be wise to look at. Well and I don't mean the charter's got some I mean the guys talked about you know the adoption of the budget. One that one's by resolution and modifications or by ordinance I mean there's a couple of those things that are in there that. Can we put that on one of our work sessions in the next few months? Yes. Charter reviews? Yeah, maybe February and March. And then we get T-up on comp plan right after that. Oh. That's a very, very good point, Bob. Glad you brought that back up. And we look forward to those little presentations. That was very, very effective. And Ronda did a great job during that period of time. So we applauded. And I'm a result of it. Thank you. Glad you're here, Tommy. Oh, gosh. I have a flavor of Tommy. Oh gosh. I have a flavor of love. Thank you. I think that's why all of a service, not because you make a ton of money sitting here. I have a public health board meeting tomorrow afternoon. And the good news is, water and sand did make the decision on fluoride because I knew that that was going to be a hot topic for tomorrow's public Health board meeting so I haven't really reviewed the agenda in full detail at this point So I'll be reporting back at our next meeting. There is a raft of board on Thursday unfortunately due to other presidential requirements. I chair the board for hospice and payler to care in our state. Our convention is Thursday and Friday, so that finds me in Denver. Senator Poppinoe over to Lissa, can you do it one more time? This is number three. I know. There was. You know what? I was I was reminded the other night by Kathy Chandler who was at the event of T. Lee's He's selling representing Ego County and this was for Open Space and Trails. She said we really like having a Lesa. She brings chocolate chip cookies I'm gonna have hard footsteps hard to put stuff. I'll be very dissimilar. So thank you, dear. No problem. I got to attend that open space in trails. Function at T-17 I thought it was great. I mean the amount of progress that that group has made over the years has really been astounding. I mean they do great work and it's impressive. I think as they stated you know it was when they first It's impressive, I think, as they stated, you know, when they first purchased the first piece, open space, it didn't feel like they were doing much, but all these years later they really made a big impact, so great group. You know, for those of us who were there, it was a limited number of invites given the size of T. Lacey. It would be great to have that presentation done here. And the walkthrough history, it's 25-year celebration of our open space and trust. It was excellent. So maybe we could see that in the future when we kind of have a short agenda. Don't you think it'd be great? Sure. Is that Picking County? Yeah, yeah. It was amazing that walk through history. I don't have anything. Northwest Cog doesn't meet again, I think, till December. And I'm going to be after for you. And that's it. Good. I think I of anything else. Holiday party is December 5th. What is it? I don't think so. I think so. Fourth. Fourth. Fourth. Fourth. Make sure you get on your calendar. Thanksgiving potlock is November 22. The town is working with the rotary club and the Weston put on that great event. And the chapel. And the chapel I'm sorry. We're under what time does that start? I think, you know, people just need to get this stuff on their calendar. Five o'clock. Five o'clock. And then there's, there'll be an alphabet that comes out as to My last name is Butler and I need to bring an appetizer or whatever. Yeah, it was in the newspaper And I can't totally remember because I'm a see and I don't know I'm supposed to bring On the website, okay, huh? Aren't you lucky Okay, it's on there. Okay, for the listening public, TOSV.com, all the detail is there, and I'm sure it'll be published again this week in the snowmass sun. Next, I don't hear anyone else in terms of reports and updates. Now we're going to move into executive session. Town Council will now meet an executive session pursuant to CRS 446 4024 and Snumass Village Municipal Code Section 245C to specifically discuss one item. Code Section 245C to specifically discuss one item. Personnel matters except if the employees who are, who is at the subject of the session has requested an open meeting, personant to CRS 246402 for FL, it's non-mass village municipal code Section 245C6. Provided there is an affirmative vote of two thirds of the quorum present at this meeting to hold an executive session and for the purpose of considering item A above. Provided further that no adoption of any proposed policy position resolution regulation or formal action show occur at this executive session. I move therefore to convene an executive session. Second. Any discussion? Yes. Is that Bob Chircus? Yes. Okay. All in support? Say aye. Aye. Opposed? Otherwise. Thank you. We will adjourn this session for right now. We will reconvene an executive session in closing meeting accordingly. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to do it. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to do it. Thank you. you I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm sorry. Thank you.