Good afternoon. This is April 18th. Obvious. It's supposed to be spring time. It's spring time in the Rockies as we all learned over the weekend. This is a regular meeting of town council. It's four o'clock and we're going to go ahead and get started. Ronda, Rokal. Sorry, lost my pen. Butler, here. Here. And Bob is trying to get back. He was in Florida and somehow the airport in Denver happened to be closed over the weekend, so I couldn't get back even late last night. So he sends his wishes to all and of course he would prefer to be here. Going. Florida. It's not as well as what anyway. Do we have any public comment this evening? I don't see any hands going up. Okay, we did receive a letter late today from Pat Keifer who resides at Capitol Peak and I really haven't really read all of it but I would like to enter it into the public record and acknowledge that we did receive a letter from Pat Keyford. The next item is consent agenda. Draft agendas and work session topics. Approval minutes. October 5th, the 19th and April the 11th. Do I have a motion for approval? A motion to approve. Thank you, Alyssa. Second. The only item that I would like to discuss is removing into holiday vacation and vacation time. And I've asked Rhonda to take a look to see, is there any day that the council is all here in session, either work or Those are spent some late updates. Okay. Um, I just got Billy's dates today So they're not on this and it's we're on page three of 142 so there is One meeting where you all be together, which is July 5th And then not again till August 15th and is everyone in town the last week of May that you can tell? Mays? Well I don't know because you only give me the dates that you're not here for a council meeting and there's not one schedule for that day So I don't know if you're here or not. I'm just gonna ask my fellow colleague. You're here. Are you here the last week of May? Okay, so we need to have a full session What is a Memorial Day? May 30th I won't be here. You won't be here. Oh, OK. So we're looking at July 5th and August 15th. OK. That's all. OK. There's graduations. Here's a lot going on. OK. Well, I don't think, well well it's good to note it, and we'll pay attention to those dates as we work through the agendas over the next few weeks. Yeah. Madam Mayor, there's a couple, I noticed a couple of council members that are going to miss consecutive regular meetings. And by code they need to have that approved in advance And it used to be by a majority and it looks like it starts with our next regular meeting I may second May 16th Bob circuses out and then the other one I saw when I went through this was Bob circuses out and then the other one I saw when I went through this was This is out for two in a row to lie 18th and all this one So I guess I just asked that you make a motion Recognizing those and excusing those absences. So it doesn't come to a future point where someone got argued that those were absences that weren't approved in advance according to the code. Do I have a motion accordingly? A motion accordingly. We have a motion to excuse or appropriately accept the fact that Delissa is out for two consecutive meetings as is Mr. Circus. Circus is in May and Alyssa is the last week of July and the first regular session of August. Have a motion on the table. Do I have a second? You can do second that. Just a question John. Does it make a difference if it's more than two? If Bob's going to be out for four and a row? I didn't see it as four in the row. Because you don't count the work session, right? You don't count the work sessions. All right. Health second. Okay, thank you very much Bill. Yeah. The other thing is too is that um that work session on June 13th we're all here we could make it a regular meeting, right? Which thing I'm gonna be out. session on June 13th. We're all here. We could make it a regular meeting, right? Which they are, maybe out. Oh, you're not. Yeah. Okay. May 9th is a work session. There's a potential for another one might miss. And if you were to tell staff that now, that would allow them to schedule accordingly. Because I think there's a good, I mean, work session without the full body is not as effective. And if you're talking only three with the potential of another one being out, that it might be a good idea to unschedule at at this point. I was looking at the last week of May. I know, you're talking about another schedule, you're just talking about, I'm only talking about what's on your consent agenda. Yeah, well I looked at that work session on, I guess that's the ninth of May. May ninth, yeah. So if we go down one, we've got two people, so we don't have four of them, right? Go down one. You said we may not have, you only have three on the ninth. You only have three on the ninth, and you might lose another one. So let me tell you how we have two. Right. And you might not find that out until the weekend of. And I guess what I'm saying is that with only three, you're less effective. And if there's a chance and I would make it probably better than 50%, you're going to lose somebody else. Okay, so in talking earlier with Ronda, I was looking at not doing the ninth, but moving the work session to the last week of May. Okay. It sounds as though we'd have four. Okay. Because Billy is out, right? You can schedule a special meeting anytime you want. I would say we try to get something tentatively on the book, the book's the last, right after the World War. Okay. The 31st is Tuesday, and that's the last day of May. And I think Alyssa proposed that you're all going to be here June 13th. Oh you're not here. Well and he's out on the 31st as well as the 30th. Well, and he's out on the 31st as well as the 30th. What is okay if we go ahead and pick the first day? What I could suggest too is maybe we could come up with some topics to figure out how we need to get some of these things moving forward and we can figure out the timing of those. Is there something specific we're trying to get scheduled or? Well, I don't know how the session will go this evening with the school board. Right. And my thought is if, if, in essence, something happens that we need to review language, right, then it would be better to have at least four members of council here sooner or the better. Because in my experience, there's more than one draft that we have to go through. So just knowing that it's April 18th tonight, I mean, if we just leave it as is and you adopt it as is, I can take the direction that in order to have, assuming we're going to have further discussion on the school district ballot language, we can schedule that for a night where we're going to have, assuming we're gonna have further discussion on the school district ballot language, we can schedule that for a night, we're gonna have at least four council members there, and we can work through that. I can work with John and whoever else the school district's attorneys about how quick that language can be developed and then how quickly we can get it back to you all. Because that has to be done by August, doesn't it? I believe so. But it's. I guess my recommendation. So instead of guessing dates tonight, let's we can get that direction at the end of the school district, and then we can come back and make phone calls, offline, figure out when people can be around. And we can schedule that with. OK, I'm fine with that. Just trying to get something on the books. OK, we have a motion on the table and a second for the consent agenda. All in support, say aye. Aye. Opposing, sign. Let's move on to, we don't have a public hearing this evening. Let's move on to the first reading of the ordinance number five, series 2016. This abends the 2016 general fund in excise tax fund for the town of Snowmass Village. Good evening. Good evening, David. Good evening, Mary Ann. So, David. Good evening, Marianne. So, Joe, Marianne and I are here tonight to request an additional appropriation of $440,000 as the report, the four-year states, Country Club Town Home number 18 has come up for sale. That's currently a deed restricted unit. Normally, a deed restricted unit would go into a lottery and it would go through our normal process. But because of the history of unit, normally a district of unit would go into the lottery and go through a normal process. But because of the history of these units and where they're located and how the assessments work, in recent history of the town council has directed staff to go ahead and try and get those units in the control of the town and outside of our standard lottery process. And so in order to effectively do that, we need to purchase that unit from the folks selling that unit. The purchase price is $430,000. They've got fees in there and some estimated miscellaneous costs. So we're asking for an additional appropriation of $440,000. I had a quick question. Is that the appraise value or is that the internal staff analysis? That's the deed restricted calculation for that unit, the recent. So it's the purchase price plus inflation, plus improvements, and the formula that we have to follow into such that rate, the unit in cell phone. And so that rate is set essentially. And the closing costs and the miscellaneous are a best guess. But we thought we'd better put a little bit of factor and they're just knowing something will come up. So there's a request for $440,000. The town, if the council approves this on first and second reading, the town would end up using, would own that unit and we would, in the short term, recommend putting it into the mix of employee units. And in long term, we know that we've got at least three units in this complex that we need to make some long term decisions on how best to utilize those, whether to sell them and then take those proceeds and create more housing, someplace else that would not be subject to these assessments. There's a variety of options, but in order to have those options available, we need to purchase this property in the first place. And that's what we're recommending this evening. For those on Council, just to walk back in history and John, if you can help here. Council began making the decision about moving out of the next unit housing type of a notion. That was about six years ago or so plus, I don't remember, John, but it was longer. It was, okay, it was with all those assessments that we were, if you will, being asked to help subsidize and what have you. And then where we got into the more it didn't make sense for us to be in this type of a process. Correct. I think it's around 2010, 2009. OK. Yeah. OK. And I was looking at the units today. And so far, we have the town has purchased. If we buy this one today, we've already purchased four of these units. This will be the fifth unit. And who's our realist, realtor, who's handling this transaction? Well since we're buying it directly from the owners this time, we will not need a real improvement. Okay. John Dressam. Yeah, right. You get a commission too. Okay, thank you. We've retained a realtor when the town then removes the deed restrictions and sells them free market. And that'll be something if you have a unit, you're probably going to make it a new decision because the person would use this. Okay, no longer left us. Yes, correct. Ron. Okay, do I have any discussion, any questions for Joe or Mary-Anne? Do we have a feeling for what he praised value is of these styles on the free market? I can tell you from the past units we've usually doubled our money or more when these become free market units. This unit in particular is in a very good location and has great views. It's in very good shape. The elders are here tonight and I think it will sell for a very good price when we do decide to sell it or when the town decides to sell it. Before the town sells it, they repay the subsidy that was provided to the deeter-stricted homeowners down there for the special assessment that ranged basically from 110,000 per unit to even higher than that. And the town took that money out of the excise housing fund to put towards a special assessment on the condition that when actually each of the owners had to pay a minimum of 25% of that special assessment, the town picked up the rest and then upon sale that had to be repaid to the town. So the town repays that loan first before that, the rest of that money's earmarked for whatever repurposed council wants in the past that's been earmarked for housing. And we have paid ourselves back. So it's kind of an ongoing calculation as a result of that initial appropriation to assist those, I believe they were 11 at the time, Joe. 11 units. Because. Yeah. So do I have a motion for approval? Motion to approve. Thank you, Bill. Second. Second. Meeting further discussion? All in support, say aye. Aye. Opposed, same sign. Ornance number five is approved. So for second Aye. Opposed, same sign. Ornith's number five has approved. So for second reading, but second reading with the council will be comfortable putting us on consent. Sure. Right, okay, then? Yes, it is. Okay. Okay, moving on, Aesthmund School District Funding Assistance. District funding assistance. Okay, okay, I'll wait till you all get set up. There's a slide show. Do you need us to bring up the section? Yeah, why don't you bring that up, Kate? Let's pull it up. I'm going to do it. You're doing what I was going to do? No. What are you going to do next? I'm going to do university. I'm going to do university. I'm going to do university. I'm going to do university. I'm going to do university. I'm going to do university. I'm going to do university. I'm going to do university. I'm going to do university. I'm going to do university. I'm like University of San Diego. I'm like University of San Diego. I'm like University of San Diego. I'm like University of San Diego. I'm like University of San Diego. I'm like University of San Diego. I'm like University of San Diego. I'm like University of San Diego. I'm like University of San Diego. I'm like University of San Diego. I'm like University of San Diego. I'm like University of San Diego. I'm like University of San Diego I think you do. I think just joking. I'm not to get it. Yeah, and we're just getting our We're pulling off the left? Yes. Madam Mayor, do you want... Marky. So the web's taking its time pulling down the PDF. You all have the information on your packet. It'll be okay if you started the PDF. You all have the information on your packet. You could be okay if you started the conversation. I'll be left to the internet to do its magic and get it. Can you get faster? Yeah, gosh, you guys are the projects. Well, I don't want to distract because I know you're good to go. Okay, Kate, you started. Yeah, we just wanted to say thank you again for having us here again and I wanted to introduce Bob Glay. He's also board member Destidias is back here. He was the campaign manager for the Millie V campaign and is planning to help us out in any future collection choose we might have and we just wanted to be here and go back and answer questions that you had had from our previous meeting and to make a formal request for funds for the record. Pardon me? Susan Moralt. And this is Kate Fuentes. So do you guys want to start with the questions that you had or should we just start with the right ones? Well, I think it might be helpful because I know the community may not have seen it or remembered or what have just some of the high level details or not high level details oxymoron. Sorry Kate. But if you'd be so kind just to give us some quick bullet points and I would like my fellow colleagues to know that Plant and I met with members of the school board and the city of Aspen. That was about a month ago, three weeks ago. A couple of weeks ago. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much. So with that as being our starting off point on a high level end, one of the things that's prompted us to come to you guys is the ways schools are funded in the state of Colorado. And you guys, I think you are all aware of the funding gaps that exist on the state level. And just a quick jump. You start with your number of pupils. You have a dollar amount per pupil that you're calculated to receive. And it comes up with a total dollar amount that you're allowed to collect. And then they look at property taxes and first your local sources of funds and then they look at moving secondarily into how much the state would then pick up. And currently at the state level there is not enough money on a statewide basis for them to completely fulfill their obligations on what that portion is on the state level. So they created a negative factor to come in and basically reduce the amount that they are providing out to schools. It does not change how we calculate what the total program comes up to be. So actually this is always confusing. So let me just play. My name is Bob playam record member and I always like to clarify Kekushy deals with this every day so it's very familiar territory for her and I find it helpful to just reissue one more say it a different way. The local property tax revenues are the revenues we collect locally. Is that correct? Yes. So when we're looking at this particular piece for the Aspen School District that's the the 12.485 million dollars is local. Yeah. It's the mills that we collect local. The state funding from all school districts the 3.98 billion or the 3.24 million dollar lower if you look at that. That number is the amount that the state of Colorado should be funding. That should be the funding level that they are providing us because they don't fund this, because they don't have any money, they have this negative factor that they apply and it comes out to the tune of $2.1 million every year. We have stopped GAP that in the past, with things like the City of Aspen, sales tax, AEF, Aspen Education Foundation, revenues, things of that nature have made up that GAP for some years. That's rolling off, the City of Aspen one in particular is rolling off and we would be experiencing a major drop in our revenues and that was one of your questions that we'll get to later because of that. But it's really what you need to be looking at is the fact that they are only going to be giving us the difference a k between 3, 2 and 2, 1? Yes. So it's the difference between 3, 2 and 2, 1. So it's like $1.1 million. This is what they're giving us, not the $3.2 million. And that's how we end up in the whole $2.1 million. So if property taxes go up, which they appear to be doing, with the real estate values, particularly in Aspen, does the state funding go down or does it go effectively? Yes, so there's not a one for one increase. So like if, just because our local property tax revenues go up does not correspond to an increase in revenues to us. So it reduces the burden on the state for how much they have to provide. And it's the state's decision as to how much they're going to fund on their end. So for example, this past year, there was more growth in local property tax revenues across the entire state that could have, if the state had maintained their contribution at the level that they said they were going to do, then the school districts would have benefited from the growth in the revenues. They didn't do that. They decided to lower their contribution. The schools as a whole got the same dollars that they were promised, but that we didn't get any benefit from the increase in property tax revenues. So when there's an increase in local property tax revenues, all that does is change the mix of how much on a statewide level comes from local sources versus state required sources. And then the state chooses how much they're going to they they can afford to meet on their end. So who makes that determination? The gov or the state legislature? So I'm trying to really get to a rational nexus of understanding. It's hard. It's not easy. One thing that you need to understand is that back in 2007, 2006, because of the way we were operating, we actually had total control interestingly of... Well, in many ways, it wasn't that long ago that what okay maybe away so it was the away it was with the oh nine revamp reevaluation right there was a moment in time where we went from having quite a bit of control because we were completely self-funding on a local level so we could we got to keep everything that we took in. And there was a moment in time when we all on the board, we required to sign a reduction in the maximum mill lebby's that we were allowed to take in because we were above the taper acts level. But we were going to collect more locally than what the school finance formula would allow calculated for us to have. The moment that happened we went from being in quite a bit of control over our lives to being beholden to a different calculation methodology which required us to be much more tied to what happened with the state's fund. It coincided so for a two-year period, we had that we were fully funded through local property taxes. Then when the revaluation came out, we dropped back into the scenario of not being able to be fully funded by our own local property tax revenues and having a portion of those monies come from the state that then was reduced because the state couldn't fulfill its obligation. Now this is all part of and and and and with that particular mill that Bob mentioned. We don't have the authority to go and ask our voters to increase that particular mill lobby-lovy. That's not a loud-via statute. We can't go and ask our voters to increase that particular mille-lovy. So, what we've been doing over the last five years is trying to acknowledge the importance of beginning to take ownership through creative, alternative sources of funds that are generated locally that can be sustained for long periods of time to make a permanent move for those gaps. Because if we were having to have to ask $2.1 million out of our budget next year, it would definitely impact the classroom. It's not, I mean, with a budget, as you can see in some of the pie charts that you'll get to later, most of our budget is staff related. And with that, then, you know, our most recent financial estimates, and this is a constant moving target for us. We received the most recent update from the state on where they think the school finance act will finish out and it changed about four times from December through April as to where that was gonna land. And with that, we're still, we haven't gone through our budget process to address the shortfall that's projected for the 1617 year, but we intend on addressing that piece of it ourselves through a variety of mechanisms but wanted to present to you guys kind of where we are in this process. So what's happening at the state level? You know, I've seen a lot of stuff in Millie Havners. Right. So what they proposed was to keep their negative factor in dollar amount flat from the 2015-16 year into the 16-17 year. So the funding gap will remain at $831 million statewide. $1 million in our- The two point just and the way our numbers worked out, it's just shy of 2.1 million for the 16-17 year And that is assuming that our Enrollments are flat and that's the way we Prepare our budgets unless we know that there's declining enrollment We don't factor in any increasing enrollment as we do our budget from one year to the next So with that We're looking at're looking at the $2 million gap there and we have other increasing costs within our expenditures for everything from the amount that we have to contribute to PERA, to health insurance increases, to non-salary related items and that kind of thing. So, I'm sorry to answer one of your questions in your packet from the last meeting. The number negative 415 to negative 2.5 million if you see those two numbers. That is making the assumption we have to because we don't know for sure about the city of Aswin tax. That sunsets at the end of next year and we would not be collecting it the following the old value of the city of Aswin. Sunset at the end of 2016 and would not then be available for the 17-year. How many million is that? About 1.8 millionish. On a run rate basis these days. We originally thought it was 1.6 and it's closing in on 2.1, but over the life of the fund, it's been about 1.8. Okay, I have next question. Down, that little footnote. Yes. 2019 reflects capital outweighs for existing buildings. Yeah. So recognizing the marijuana tax is supposed to help with capital projects, would that not cover that? No, so the marijuana funds go into a program called building excellent schools today or best. Those funds are awarded via grant process only and it's not available for school districts just to chip in and say, hey, I need to replace my boiler. It's for basically building schools and doing complete renovations and remodels on school buildings. And for it, there are, it's a very competitive process for those grants on an annual basis. And in fact, it took the Aspen Community School, I think three full times of going before them in order to get a grant. And it's a matching grant as well. And so it's not likely that those dollars are coming to the Aspen School District. I think it's a very, very slim. And one of the things I think that both parents, taxpayers, community members, visitors, see when they drive along the Aspen School District is, it all looks so new. And you know, for people who've been here a long time time it kind of actually feels like it was just yesterday that this or that we built but you know when you look out to 2019 or 2020 you're talking about schools that will have aged anywhere between New York but the oldest with that 30 years old so the elementary school was built in 92 92 so 2012 would be 30 or 2022 would be 30. That's just around the corner. And so there are major things that we need, we are already on our radar screen that we know we will have to just replace as fact. And so we are budgeting for those. It's not prudent for a board to not just take a 10 and a 10 and pass the problem on to somebody else. Those things could be bonded potentially. That's where I was going to go now. It could be. And they may have to be. And we're not saying that we're solving all the world, all of our issues with this and the city of Aspen Sales Tax. There's a wide breadth of things that we're looking at with respect to that. But for the capital and those kinds of things, we're, you know, a couple of years out from that and we'll look at, you know, the mechanisms that will come into play associated with those particular items. But the more important concept is any help or assistance that you all can give us and the potential for the sales tax in the city of Aswin to continue on is critical. Our general fund is not nearly large enough to make up for $2.5 million budget gaps in perpetuity. It's just not possible. So we as a board would have to take fairly draconian steps if some of these pieces aren't put into place. And to your point, the Aspen City Sales Tax has gone up to two or two one, whatever the number is. But that's only through four or five good years. It doesn't mean that we couldn't have another down year. One of the big problems with sales taxes is they do have some fluctuation. Right. And the way that we've gone about the process with requesting those funds from the Aspen Public Education Fund is to not request 100% of the sales tax funds but a portion of them in safe back a couple of hundred thousand dollars in case the collections are not as robust as projected so that we're not in a scenario where the Aspen Public So we've had a pretty consistent track record of utilizing that process. We feel it's prudent to continue to do that. So the other slide that I included was just a kind of a big picture on a percentage basis of where our funds are coming from, local revenues versus county and federal monies. You can see virtually all of our money is coming from a local revenue source on the state is kicking in a small percentage and even smaller for the county and federal and and then as we look at our uses of funds the bulk of our money is are going for salary and benefits with the rest of the dollars being allocated out for everything from classroom supplies to textbooks to, you know, what we need to do to maintain our campuses. As we all have heard, whether it's municipal agents in the police or fire teachers, our budget is so expensive on the staff side, even giving them modest increases that we can barely afford, one or two percent, those numbers when 80 or 90 percent of your budget is staff. It starts to really, it moves into some of the other areas that you still need to fund and it is a big problem for us because it's such a patient. Yeah. And as an example, for the 16, 17 year, the increase that will receive coming out of the school finance formula calculation is roughly $250,000 of new monies that we'll receive if our pupil to count stays flat. And $250,000 doesn't get you very far in the increases that you've got across the board and all of your operations. So it's a struggle. It's definitely a struggle. And actually just to delve deeper into our world just a little bit, I mean we are not being trying to just keep doing what we've always done. We are trying to be creative. We've had conversations with the staff around changing the way the salary schedule looks, maybe boosting the lower end and turning out the later end a little bit more recognizing that we do end up with some turnover but we like to keep some of the staff a little bit longer so that they can really add value that does save some money when some of the retirees retiree does lower costs but it's not a panacea. What kind of health benefits do you offer? Health care? We they're pretty limited we offer and Kate can talk this more but I believe it is just for the primary we cover the primary and then everybody else is paying for themselves, that the rest of the family they pay. Right? And just to, you know, one other thing you know about Para, you all probably have some Para employees out of that, maybe. You know, the split between how much people are saving out of their paychecks and how much you all are kicking in. It's a big number. You're increasing the number. And I don't know about the... Yeah, so about our cost for Para, which is in lieu of FICA, is close to 20% right now. Well, yes. And it's been increasing at just shy of 1% per year for the last seven, 8, 9 years. So it's significant. And we have a mandatory increase of 0.9% a year. So that's something that not a lot of normal businesses have to deal with. And they're looking at 6.2% and we're at 19. We'll find that wonderful piece of legislation. Yes. So a lot of it has to do with just the numbers and interest rates and losses and under-marketable gains income into these funds for years and draws from people that they've been promised to and they force this on the people who are the payees. Yep, look at it. But a way to bankrupt businesses. So any other questions or? Why does the funding gap drop slightly for 1617? That's based on the way that They have projected a modest increase in our increase in a V so the the revaluation year was this past year and is in place for year that we're in right now, but the state has projected a slight little tick up on that. And so that's where that kind of comes from. So. I was going to imagine you're getting a fair amount of pressure from community school parents who are who anticipated getting into the school system who are now being denied because of enrollment. That is not something I should necessarily speak to. Susan, we had some very disappointed families for sure. That's something that has really been something we've talked with them for a long time about their out of district percentage compared to our out of district percentage. And it's been harder for them to reduce the number of out of district kids that they take. And so it just has become a matter of space in our high school, really. And so, yeah, it's hard because I think some of those families definitely thought that they would just move on to the high school. Yeah, I mean, I think it's said in your information that 70 of the community school kids are from out of district. And there's not that many kids in the entire school, right? It's been that way. This is, I've been on the board for six or seven years. This has been a conversation that I know to administrators, John and Mr. Copros have spoken about and with all the efforts placed to improving their school, you know, having a school built and everything over the last three or four years, as they were doing at, I'm not sure that the conversation is that we're taking place between the two administrators while making it all the way out to the parents set. But there were a continuous documented with our board. If we are bored and John to Jim about, we were afraid that this was sending the wrong message and that people might have been using it as a back door into the high school and felt that wasn't there or right. But we had more important constraints that came up a little bit later on when the class sizes started to grow so high and we were large in the combinator. Well, so speaking of the out of district, so you said that there's 184 kids that are out of district and I think 44 were staff kids and so that was 114 right yeah 140 out of unaccounted well sorry the 70 from the community school that you didn't count right would they have been in that out of district number yes because it said that this includes 70 community school out of district kids of the 184. And then you have the 44 kids that are staff kids. So you still have 100 and something kids that are out of district. Right. So the best way to look at this is if you look at grade by grade, the location of the bulk of those 140 kids is actually in the high school. There has been a fairly tight, well, throughout the district there's been a very tight enforcement of out district kids coming up. You can be able to come in, but it's been particularly tight down at the elementary school for years and years. And so you now see the benefits, because we don't kick people out if they've been in the school for seven years. Right. But they've let siblings in of kids that are already in the district. If there's space available, I believe John is a much better. Yeah. So I know some of those kids. So, but know that we have been doing the best job we possibly can as the school district at the lower middle to lower grades to really the number of kids that are in district are much higher there than they are in the high school. And just to be clear, the calculation of our revenues takes your student count times the per pupil revenues. So it doesn't matter whether that student is in district or out of district, they get counted and we get that calculation towards our revenues. Right, but we still have to make up the rest of the money to pay for them. The gap. So the question is is. That's like a million, how much? Well, how much? But we still have to make up the rest of the money to pay for them. The gap. So the question is is. That's like a million. How much? Well, no. I mean, you're talking about 12% on the total. And we're making up the difference for all of our children, not just the gap on out of district. So it doesn't matter where a student resides, they are part of our student count. We get the local funding and the state funding for all of us to do so whether they're in district or out of district. If they're there on October 1st. They may be, those students who happen to be out of district who are attending our district, if you're thinking this way, let's probably maybe benefiting more than they were in districts for the right to live or reside. Yeah. I can't argue that point. There may be an enriched amount of money that they are seeing as students that apply to them. Otherwise, another area, though, that is much more significant, that is a small population, but has grown dramatically, is our special needs population. You cannot believe how many special needs and the cost of running that program and the quality of it in Aspen is unbelievable, but it's a significant part of our budget, and it's mandated we must do it. I know you're mandated to do it, but I would think, let's see, careful, high say this, ask this question. So you're mandated to do it, and there's probably state specific criteria you must meet in terms of the mandated program. Are we going above and beyond the minimum? We are doing what is best for our students and what is best for their educational needs. Are we providing five more staff than we need to? No. Are we providing the appropriate staff to meet everyone's educational needs? Yes. Do we know what that program costs and how many kids are in it? You know, I don't know the numbers right off the top of my head for how much special education costs and how much we're getting from the state. I did not put that in my. No, it's just a point of reference. We just know that we talk about out of district or special needs. There are these populations that definitely have found aspen and are benefiting from being there. I will tell you a difference at a story which is I think it is our special needs staff that has created the programs that are very, very talented people and I mean that from standpoint of globally looking down and knowing how to best use resources. We people are seeing that aspect of these people and that's their call to coming. It's not the money that's being spent on them necessarily. It's more the quality of the program that's in place. But because of the staff. That's what I've had to say. Well, you know, people are attracted to the fact that you've got a great school system. So do I want to be in Denver or what I prefer to try to move in to Aspen? Is just a what a parent would think. But I want to go back to the out of district. I have a it's not clear to me. So if I live in basalt and I'm part of the RE1 school district, do the taxes that I pay for RE1? Are those transferred into? No, so what happens is each school district does account on October 1st and you determine the amount of funding that you're able to achieve through the calculation. The source of where those monies come from starts initially with your local property tax base. So it's only the Aspen School District, boundaries, funds that go toward the total program for the Aspen School District. If you are residing in basalt in the Roaring Forks School District, your taxes go toward to that school district. So regardless of where your student goes, if you have no students at all, you are still paying taxes for the Roaring Forks School District or the Aspen School District. But the money for that student goes to our district if they're student in our district, regardless of where they go. So it's not about where the parents are paying. Everybody gets their calculation based on where the student is attending. Is that? Well, I'm really confused because Susan's answer is complete. Yeah, no, let me see if I had the same question. So I understand what you're saying. Because I always try to put it in the most plain terms. What I think now happens is, Picking County treasure, do they truly cut us a check based on what the state tells them to cut it for? Or is it directly to us? That Picking County comes directly to us? Picking County. Rights a check back to us based on the property tax revenues that are generated within Picking County, within the Aspen School District itself boundaries. Right, how but- No monies go to a state pool that then go back to anywhere else. So that gets into- How do we change what Susan said and what you said because there is a- What the state makes up? Then funds for us has to do with how many kids we have in our school. Okay, but so we but what's the, I, because I forget the number off top of my head, what is the cost per student per school year? So right now we are, our per pupil revenue. Right. Right. On a fully funded number is, I've got the exact number here. It's in there. It's 14 something. Well, that's all in, not the state calculation. So the state, sorry. Well, just give us roughly that it's all now. Let's say it's roughly $10,000. OK. So we have to, on a per pupil revenue. So you take that times the number of students. Wait, but that it's $10,000 per pupil and how much of that is covered by the state. So that's where we going to going back up to how much the Aspen School District pulls in what we generate locally. So of the 17.8 million that we could have 12.4 that comes from the Aspen School District, local property taxes, and the rest of it is supposed to come from the state. We're getting the 3.2, but we're not getting the additional 2.1. So in the state really isn't covering all the states? No, okay. But they're not covering all kids. But I work with property taxes are so if you live in basalt then really it's But they're paying property taxes for for a school district that they're not attending they're still paying property taxes. Right, but we're not getting those property taxes. No, right. But we're getting we're getting to count. So if they weren't in our school, we wouldn't get revenue for them at all. We wouldn't it wouldn't add it wouldn't be part of that. 17.17 million. I got a lower number by 10,000. Would it be accurate to say that local property tax stays in your county. Yes, the state number to fluct fluctuate. State follows the student. Local stays. Well, no, but no. So the local monies will, so if we were, you know, had say 500 fewer kids or whatever, if the local property tax revenues, if through that calculation that generated a number higher than what our property taxes would be, they would come in and say you have to lower your Mills you can't you can't generate that much revenue so it's all tied together Yes, the local property taxes stay within your community. Yes, the state is filling that gap for whatever students you have and Yes, the state is short so But the only way following students per se is the state money. No. No, the state money doesn't fuck because if we had 500 less students, we would receive 500 times 10,000. Yeah, right. And if it was and if it ended up coming into our local property tax number, they would just simply tell us to lower our mill rate, because we're not allowed to collect that much. But if we had less students, will we not have to make up for as much in the funding gap? It's a combination of there's less students, so there's less revenue, less programs, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It's not a take one out and it's and it's there's there's dominoes that go through with that. I mean, if you could do away with a whole section of students, you know, you wouldn't have to hire a teacher for that. If you took like the hundred and something at a distance, but if you were, but if you were, but it again, it's spread across multiple grades. Right. If it's five kids per grade level, that's not a teacher. And remember why those students are there. So why those students are there from the old days. Because we had a building of a certain size, you might as well, it's like industrial production or capacity utilization, you might as well use the building you have to size. What happened is we had a lot of people in from out of district and then we had a lot of people, then the size of the local population grew quickly and we realized we had to scramble about 10 or 15 years ago and we've been managing it ever since so that the capacity utilization is about maxed out for all the schools. I had one more question going back because I'm not real clear yet on where my question was going. So we have per pupil revenue of 14,309 in the numbers here. And it looks like the rowing fork is 10,000. So about $4,000 difference. So what I hear Kate you saying is that we collect our little property taxes here. Joe Blow and his kids live down in basalt. They're part of RE1. Their equivalent is their schools are getting $10,000. That's what they're paying. We're paying $14,000 per pupil. Is there any can you as a school board assess a tuition fee to those kids? No. We're not making up the fair share. No, you can't. No, it's open enrollment. Kids can go to any school where there is room. So if you are not living within that school's boundaries, you can apply to be an out of district student. And it's based on capacity and that particular school's policies. We have to educate every student that resides within our school district boundaries. I just stood that. But the per people amount is the same regardless of where you live in the state of Colorado. It's right. The way the school finance formula calculates it's not the same dollar amount. Everybody's subject to the same formula. Peace. But they don't have that. Actually one of the interesting, again, another nuance just to press our point here a little bit further, there is dialogue in the state legislature to eliminate the cost of living factor in the formula Kate is referencing to get to that $10,000 number. That helps us dramatically in the high cost area like this. If they pull that at the state legislature level as one of the portions of the funding, it'll impact us. It will absolutely impact us and it'll be another thing that we don't have access. Is that a reasonable thing to say? Yeah, I don't know where they are currently on it. They did try to eliminate it a couple of years ago. Sounds fun. I have a question. But you talked about 2020 and 2020, year 2022, not being far away. Yeah. And in the letter from the school board, you asked for a long-term solution. But in the same token, on the bottom of the letter, you asked for this $500,000 just for five years. So we're not even going to be in 2022 yet. And what's going to happen after five years? It's a great question. A good example of this five years that you're talking about is essentially the way I look at the reason why we're here today and why we will be in front of the voters in November is we've essentially not gone through any change in budget like so many school districts around the state and country did as a result of the financial crisis. We found a local solution that this community was willing to put forth to try to maintain the program and the quality of the education that we've had. We're coming up to that same hard stop in that number that you're seeing there, 415-2505. We will probably be in that same place five, ten years from now, or we talk about 10 years for the APEP letting you know. We're talking about a five year. So we're thinking about the city of Aspen being another five year term as well. So I think that's why we're matching yours up with there so that the conversation, the community, would take place about whether they're willing to re-empty out. Things change. And it would be nice to ask for it for longer, but I don't think that's a fair question for voters, really. Well, I think one of the, you know, when we finished the presentation, just, just, uh, heads up. One of the questions I have already gotten is why is it the school district can't balance her budget? You only have so much money. It's like running a business. And again, our hope is that the community sees the value in maintaining the high quality schools that we're providing today and will continue to support that. And it's not about, quote, balancing your budget. Like I said, when your income coming in gets you $200 to $250,000 on your numbers, that's not gonna provide you an awful lot of room for regular growth on all of your expenditures. So yes, we can go in and balance our budget, but to do that without these local revenue sources will change the way education looks in our community. Another way of saying it kind of focused from your perspective is I've always been very for allowing the community to tell us in a very binary way through the sales tax funding or whatever, whether they want to continue because it really is only the out of the goodness of their hearts that the voters vote to instill that sales tax in this case or the other local funding options. You may be speaking for the voters in determining what kind of grant or however you're going to assist us if you choose to and it may not be a public vote. I don't know but it is important to realize that at least since 2008 or 2009 or whenever we did the sales tax it's a binary decision. If the voters say no you're absolutely right. We would have to come down and balance our budget or rob from the piggy bank of the General Fund which would not go on for variable. The other. The other. The maintain program. This you know since the article came out in the paper when you know we're here last time and to talk about the revenue per pupil and Aspen was 14,309. People, people, some of the voters, not, I'm not gonna say everybody, but you know five or ten or so in the community say, well so we're 14,309. Snowmass Village pays a higher number about a thousand dollars more than Aspen per pupil. And tell me what I'm getting for 14,000 309 as opposed to a kid going until you ride at 13,000 or Enroying fork which is 4,000 what's what's the difference in the value of the education? An aspen for that type of a number and disparity So it's a great question and I cannot speak for tell you right and I cannot speak for boring for. I can speak only for what our board has taken away from constantly connecting with staff, parents, teachers, voters around what they value and some things that we do that many of those districts may not do to the same degree is run an x-ed program or they may or if you look at by policy the size of our classes whether it's in you know k-2 or 2 through 6 or 7 through 7 or whatever they are we have very clear board policies that we're directing the superintendent to try to maintain class sizes that we believe are lower. There's a debate nationally as to whether or not 16 kids or 18 kids in a class is any better than 24, 25, and you're right. Who knows what the outcomes would be? We'd have to try it for a decade to see. It's what the board, pass boards primarily, because it's still in existence from pass boards. But it's what pass boards have passed on to current boards as what they've said, the community values. Those are two really clear things that I think. What I'm starting to do is kind of line up the questions that each one of us will face in our community or you would face on a grass roots initiative in the SMS Village and not to say that we know all of the questions but we on council. So then one other one which is on money one and Kate bear me out on this one. It just costs more to attract and retain teachers here. It is just a fact of doing business in Aspen, the dirt that we live on, cost more for everybody to be sad. And when we look at on that cost of living index that Aspen is at 196.6.2 and the rest of those communities they're topping out at you know tell you rides at $1.15 so we are significantly more expensive community to live in and yet our per pupil revenues are not significantly you know to that same extent higher than in those other communities. So I think's, that's a good point. So I think we get more bang for our buck. And then the other school districts, we are doing more with what we are getting and providing a phenomenal education for our students. Kate, that statement was very powerful because that's as you look at what voters are going to challenge everyone with. That's a very, the Kola is a huge issue. Yeah, it's tremendous. Okay, and it's everything from, you know, like I said, the dirt that we're paying for everything in our community. Keep going. Sorry. We're just talking about what other questions you guys have. I had one more question. OK, so in the last page where you talk about the potential budget reductions that you might have to face. So it says, if the ASPEN sales tax doesn't pass and whatever we do in Snowmass should be a tax whatever it doesn't pass. But what if one of them passes and one of them doesn't, if there was a tax? I mean, is that account for that or this is just if both of them, I mean the way I read it is if you didn't get any money from Aspen or Snowmass. Well it's in tears so it's it would be. You can assign dollars to what the rather it's not binary all or none it's in by tears. Right. We get a million. The first tear would be less. This is what we have to cut out of here. Okay. One and a half left. So this is my question under the kindergarten tuition. It says that you would raise it from 2K to 2,200. But as far as I'm aware, it's already raised to 2,200 for next year. Not that I know of. Because only because I do the kindergarten tours, and that's what they told me to tell parents that for this next year not for what I think because we don't know the outcome of any election in the fall we are actually starting some of these budget reduction right we are for this next year because we have to budget so some of these things in tier one you've already started possibly yeah and what what we determine when we went through this process is, there's some of these things that don't make sense to wait on to implement. That. That if we can go ahead and begin implementing some of these things, we're going to go ahead and do it to the extent that it makes sense. Are we going to go through and hit things on tier three now? No. Right. But if we can achieve cost savings and do some other things in the meantime, then that's absolutely a path that we want to go down. Okay. Okay. To move on, I'm trying to understand what the mill levy would be, what you're suggesting. Are we talking what? 1.1 mill levy would be, what you're suggesting. Are we talking what? 0.1 mill levy? 1 mill. 1 mill. So I need somebody to do the math here. So is it $1 per thousand? Yes. So the average home price right now in Snowmass Village, according to realtor, one of the realtor publications, was right around 4 million. So if that be the case, my taxes would go up $4,000. Ten bucks per 100,000 times another 100 is a million, so it's $100, so $400,000 times another hundreds of millions, so it's $100,000, so $400. I'm like $400. Kate can double check me. Sorry, I wasn't saying it's close enough attention to the math going on there. Basically, for every mill, it's basically, and Kretmy Femmerong is $10 for every $100,000. Is it $10,000 or $100? It's $100. That's how I get. $2300,000? I don't know. There's some snowmess. Yeah. Let me see that again. I'm going to listen to home on one second. So what's your come out to pretend? So four million? Absolutely. I'm listening to home on one second. So what's your come out to pretend? So four million. Four million times seven point eight six. I didn't put my zero on there. $20,000. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. $20,000. $20,000. $20,000. $20,000. Okay. So, that's $3,000. Okay. Here's how it looks like. So there's 3000. Here's how according to geeks of finance.com, if the note rate would be 1 and the assessed value of the property is 100,000, then you divide 1 by 1,000. So your property tax, let's say, a 20, when you come up with an amount of. So, in the middle of it. What do you have there? A $4 million house would be approximately $300. And you'd increase the property tax. $300? $304 with one mill. 340 with one mill. And the water and sand was the same, was the one mill? No, there's about two. Two. I'm round me. Let me go to the fire department coming up. Right. That's another two mills. Yeah, they haven't even started calculating on there, so I don't know what their number would be. What a mills. Well, that's what I, I mean, just throw in some numbers around. Wow. So if water and sand, fire department and we fund the schools, four million dollar house is going to increase costs around $1,000 a year. Well that doesn't include the water. That's not the fire department yet. That hasn't come in yet. No, I'm just a patient. I'm just a patient. It's about 1,500, probably, 1,000 or 1,600. There it is. That's it. Because you get 384 or 300 in some month for the school, you get double that if you will for the Water and sand that's 600. That's a thousand right there, right? I'm looking to Roughly speaking yeah, I mean for a one mill is 400 if water and sand's another 800 you're at one point you're at 1200 roughly numbers and then whatever the at 1.0 or 1,200 roughly numbers. And then whatever the file department would be something similar to the school district could be another 416. Let's be quick down. Well, I guess that we all need to be cognizant of what it might mean if we do a ballot initiative. what it might mean if we do a ballot initiative. I think you want to specify what kind of ballot initiative. I have got the ballot question. Valor question we might want to put on. It would be correct. And so just to kind of make sure, I think I know where John's going. I think part of the discussion is with the staff report assumes that if there is support to go forward, there would be a property tax type question. And then I mean, I know the request from the school district is for 500,000. We would go back and do the arithmetic to make sure that the mill rate is correct to generate that amount. And it's roughly a mill, but we would do that math to make sure going forward. And assuming that's the direction of the council, then we would bring back a question to you at the near future to say, this is roughly how it would work. There's plenty of paper pushed in a bureaucratic kind of evaluation needs to make sure where those dollars would be collected and how and those types of questions. But really, I think what we'd be looking for tonight from the council is something to move forward on and put our effort towards developing a question for consideration from you on the future. I guess my question initiative would come from the people, a question would come from the council. And I guess I'm going to assume now that we're talking about a property tax question because that's what's in here. I want. There's concern lawyers for the school district that a property tax would in effect get them, they might get more money from the town of Stomach Village but because the village is utilizing the property tax that they would actually lose from the state, corresponding them out. So that's something that their lawyers are concerned, not having expressed that concern regarding your choice of method. Taxi method. I wonder if it might be wise that plant and his staff rerun the numbers. We understand there may be legal issues now to be concerned about. And what John is suggesting is not a legal issue. I'm suggesting that that was suggested to me by the district's attorneys. So perhaps I can't remember the name of the state office. More Department of Education. Yeah, it was something different than that. I would remember that, but it was. C-D-E. Anyway. I think it was maybe something out of the straight church or office as to whether or not it was a viable method. Now, the sales tax taxes tried and true. But the property tax would be something that they would want to. We want to make sure that there wasn't a corresponding reduction. That they didn't have a problem with it. So there's a little bit more homework that needs to be done. It looks like it or sounds like. But we need to have really specific language that we're having them give us an opinion on and that's where I think I mean understanding John's point from these previous discussions the feedback that I think I've received from the council is that you know sales tax because our rates already the highest in the state And that have a lot of support and so that what needs to be investigated is a property tax And so if you guys gave that direction tonight then we that's what we'd work towards as we say all right You know in fact, you know you've seen the numbers We know that about a mill generates about the request of the school district I think it's not really the district. It's coming from the foundation and we would work through those details but we need to get that direction from you all to say yes move forward on the property tax evaluation. That's going to come down on John me the rest of the staff to do that working with the school to make sure that in fact they'd have to determine at that point is it worth the risk they would have to say hey we could say if you word it this way it's comfortable if you word it this way it's not comfortable that's the evaluation would go forward if in fact you guys wanted to go forward with the first question is what does council members choose to do consider it or not consider it. I'm sitting to your right and I would consider it and say move forward looking at the property tax increase. Well I think the property tax is the right way to go for snowmass village but just to be clear the the state funding which is 16% of your budget, that would be the portion that would be affected by a state mandate saying you could only accept X dollars. Potentially, yes. Yeah. We again, we don't know for sure because it had, you know, we have to go through the channels and ask those questions. I think for some assholes, just the right way for us to go. To your left, is Alissa? Well, my kids are in the schools, so I'm not going to say that I would be against it. I mean, I think the point that you're making Bob about the class sizes and all those things, I mean, it's very important. And when I give tours of the school, that's one of the things that I think is most attractive to a lot of people. And, you know, given all the things we've considered the ways that we could do it, I do think the property tax is the best. I mean, you know, I'm not excited about my property taxes potentially going up $1,500. And I would say most people would not be thrilled. But I feel like it's for a good cause. And, you know, the great school district was never a bad thing. So. And my belief is it should be a voter decision. I will share with you. I think it's going to be a tough road here in Snowmass Village. I think my goal tonight was to help everyone understand the magnitude of the mountain that would have to be climbed. Given the fact of these other taxes that we already knew one that's got to vote on over the next few weeks and we anticipate he's seeing another income and so I'm not going to say no I think we asked the voters so direction to staff so what I'm property when I'm taking is will go forth will investigate will work with the district on developing a question utilizing a property tax that would generate $500,000 and then what will happen is we'll come up with some language and we'll bring that back. And you guys, I think your final action would essentially be authorized in putting that question forward on the ballot. And I'd really like to have the full council when we get into ballot questions. So if we can time it with the group. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. if we can time it with the group. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. Thank you. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. 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I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the Okay. Welcome. This evening is community connectivity plan. And I'm sure that we'll not do everything tonight and I don't think that's the sense of it It was just to get an overview of where we are and some of the suggestions correct. That's right. Okay, so I'll pick it off Okay, and go for it. I'll turn it over to Charlie. So as you recall, we've been talking about the community connectivity plan for the last few minutes We've been built this project in October and in your packet is a copy of the draft plan for last few meetings. We've been throughout this project in October. And in your packet is a copy of the draft plan for all the elements that we've been discussing. The last two meetings we talked about, the crossings at Rush Creek Road, as well as the trails on walkways. But I'm gonna let basically Charlie take this whole thing and take it through and then answer, we have plenty of time to answer questions as we go through. Great thanks, Anne and thank you Mayor Butler for having me here tonight. My name is Charlie Alexander. I work for a transportation planning and engineering firm called Fair and Peers and we've been leading the community connectivity plan effort. I have a presentation that should take no more than 15 minutes and then we're here for information for discussion for Q&A. So we'll wrap up with that at the end. Just a quick reminder on the plan development process we kicked off this project in September of 2015 starting with a lot of data analysis and data collection and also with a pretty extensive public outreach process which included a series of stakeholder meetings on October 5th and 6th of 2015, as well as an open house down at the Rec Center that was very well attended on the evening of the 6th. Over the course of November and December, we worked with Anne and her team to develop recommendations that will be walking through the night and she's already walked through some of them with you. And we presented those in an open house on January 27th. I wish I thank you. I came up for that. Thank you. So appreciate it. Obviously, we've developed recommendations basically from the council's direction last year in these six different areas. So tonight, we're primarily going to focus on everything beneath walkways and trails so transit through traffic calming. Before we do that, I want to start with some of the high level vision and goals for the plan and for the town that we've developed and we'd like your feedback on. And really the purpose of a vision statement is for a community to identify that end product that they're trying to achieve. So if we all close our eyes and vision, what the community is going to look like pertaining to connectivity 30, 50 years from now. Theoretically, we should open our eyes and this is the vision that we should see, right? So we've included that vision statement in the draft plan and I'll read it for you and for all the viewers at home on television. Snowmass Village will create a year-round, safe, complete, and well-connected transportation network of walkways, bikeways, trails, and public transportation for residents, visitors, and the workforce to utilize. The complete transportation network will promote a walkable community and improve access to key destinations by making sure safe and convenient connections can be made between various nodes and destinations. The network will be used to increase your round mobility for pedestrians contributing to a high quality of life for residents and a great visitor experience. So we'll come back at the end, but think through that vision statement and whether that reflects your long-term vision for connectivity in the community. We've also developed seven different goals and goals are really measures that once we've met all of the goals goals we know that we will have achieved the vision for the town. These are those end conditions that we can use to measure different projects with. It's very likely that Anne and Clinton and their team will come back in the future and measure different projects that the town is moving forward with against these different goals. You may see that show up in a CIP process or you may see that show up in something like the Comprehensive Plan, which is expected to kick off later this year. And really this is how we know whether or not the projects are meeting the vision. So I'll walk through the seven goals that we've drafted as a part of the Community Connectivity Plan here. Goal number one is that people of all ages and fitness levels feel safe utilizing walkways, bikeways and trails that connect to residential areas to key destinations including town park station, the recreation center, snowmass center, base village, the mall, transit stops or stations, and other destinations. Goal number two is walkways, bikeways, and trails will provide for year-round travel. Goal number three is crossings of town roadways that are safe and comfortable, including brush creek road, out creek road, and high line road. Goal number four is a transit system that is convenient for accessing primary town destinations and that is intuitive to accessing primary town destinations, and that is intuitive to both residents and visitors. Goal number five, that the base village and village mall be connected via infrastructure that is convenient and intuitive, and that contributes positively to a great visitor experience in economic vitality. Goal number six, a parking system that contributes to the town's economic vitality in a way that is convenient and intuitive while respecting the natural environment and promoting alternative forms of transportation. And goal number seven, adequate investment in infrastructure is made to construct and maintain a walkway by way and trail system. So those are the seven goals that we've drafted and will look for your feedback at the end. I know Anne already presented on the brush creek road crossings. We've brought all that material with us tonight if you have any further questions on those crossings. Those, I believe, are the same as when you presented last time. And we also brought all the materials for the different trail and walkway recommendations in case you have questions on those. With that, I'll dive into the recommendations that you've not seen previously. And I'll start with transit. And we've divided the transit recommendations into two phases. The first phase is meant as a near term set of recommendations that the town could move forward with in the next year or two. And phase two, these are generally more capital intensive projects that the town could move forward with in the next year or two. And phase two, these are generally more capital intensive projects that the town would probably need to look to program into future CIPs or do future collaboration with regional partners to implement. So going back to phase one, the first is maps, kiosks, and wayfinding. One of the things that we heard through the public process and observed in our analysis of the systems that we heard through the public process and observed in our analysis of the systems that the systems operating pretty well, some of the maps are a little bit challenging to read. So when we started the project, there was no overall route map that you could look at to see which route came in front of your house. I and Dave has already incorporated that information into the website, but one of the other things that we've recommended is to actually develop route maps that show the stop locations on them so that when somebody comes to town they know where the closest stop might be to where they're staying. So most of that map information would be provided on the web as well as in print. Dave's already moved forward and started implementing some of those recommendations which has been great. Kiosks and wayfinding, these are really recommendations that we heard pertaining to the different transportation centers in town, both up at the mall and in the village. In terms of visitors generally finding them to be a little bit hard to find, the one up at the mall is kind of tucked behind there where maybe it's not naturally where people are looking for it and the village, it's obviously below the village itself. So the idea with the kiosks and wayfinding is to provide wayfinding within those key destinations to those transit centers that pedestrians kind of in the main areas can get to and from the transit centers. So what are you thinking about in terms of kiosk up on the mall? Where would you put it? It's a good question, I'd have to think it would probably end if you have any thought on where that would go to. I'll let David's expert in this area. But I think there's two different things. Way finding is as Charlie was explaining, it's trying to, I'm on the mall level and where's the village shuttle. And that's not necessarily intuitive. Or if I'm at Silver Tree, I mean, excuse me, Weston, my age is showing. Weston, how do I find the village shuttle to go to the grocery store? So the way finding is one aspect. The key ask, I sort of see as, it can be as so much as interactive, where you're you're asking you had a question on how would I get from point A to point B for example or just see the overlay of the village route map. The reason why I'm asking that would appear the kiosk and what I'm accustomed to kiosk generally will require putting something structure on somebody else's property. Good. Good. I would envision it being tied to either raft of deep, probably both, the raft of deep of my bus station, the stop at, it'd be tough in the center because you'd have to decide in front of the grocery store at tasters, at the downhill bound bus stop, then town park station would be a little bit simpler. The key ask somewhere around the base of the escalator and base village, maybe as you were turned to go out the doors, it might be there, it might be in that transit center proper. So why would we not just use an app downloaded on your app when you come to? What they've seen is a lot of people when they come to the communities, they don't always download those apps when they show up. I mean, if you think about when you travel, you may go like when I travel to DC, I know I'm going to take the subway there for all to go to that, but a lot of people may not know either how to find the transist system or whatnot, so it's just not as used as frequently. So you want to try to get also multigenerational in the sense that some people don't carry smartphones still. Some people don't, and I shouldn't say still, sorry. My dad doesn't carry them. So you want to try to penetrate all sorts of different populations and try to touch as many visitor populations as you possibly can. Well, okay, then with Kiosk, we used to have one down at the transit center that was never accurate and half the time wouldn't work. So, I mean, those are some of the operational challenges that we're not here to discuss tonight. But I think so. I think so. This finding is, you know, why some of us who live here, it's mostly you longer than me, might know the bus system. There's some of us that are still trying to figure it out. And if you're only here for a week, it's more difficult than we might think. And so some of these really, you know, almost basic solutions are something we need to focus on and making sure that way finding the key oster there in the maps are easier to read than otherwise there. We're taking some of those steps already. I think that's really I think one of those key findings is that you got to make it simpler than it really is right now. One of the things we heard from a lot of the merchants in the areas they kind of service the face for the transit system whether they intend to or not or people walk in the door and say, how do I take the bus wherever and down? So I think we're trying to provide some resources that the people who are here full time can also make it easier to communicate. And then one of the recommendations we do have in phase two of the GPS technology would eventually integrate with a smartphone app, and that's also recommendations in this report. and that's also recommendations in this report. Okay, so onto the SNOMAS circulator. So the idea with the SNOMAS circulator is that when we look at the transit system itself, there's two routes that are really serving the key nodes and key destinations to the town. And in the winter time, that's the route 4, which is brush creek road between town park station and then the mall and the village and then in the summer time that's route 8. And one of the recommendations that we found is that the ridership of those two routes is among, it's probably the hard for people to remember that necessarily when they're just visiting for a short time So the idea with this is to actually Starting with route four actually upgrade that to pretty much the premier transit service in snowmass center or in snowmass village Since it already goes to all the key destinations and brush Creek Road is kind of the The denseest corridor from multifamily housing and also where a lot of people want to go. So the idea here is to actually rebrand route four as some new name, it could be this nomass circulator, it could have some other name that maybe council or the community decides upon. It's already operating frequent headways 10 minutes during peak hours in the winter time, which is enough for spontaneous use. So people know they don't need to look at a schedule. People can just say, hey, go grab the snowman circulator. It takes you everywhere you want to go and it comes every 10 minutes. You don't even look at a schedule. One of the other ideas with that is to actually make that kind of the priority route in all the stops and stations. So that's the easiest bus to get to. It's the first one that you would board in the light when you get on and off the bus at the mall or at the snowmouse village as well. So really at first, this wouldn't necessarily have a huge cost to it. It's something that we would probably recommend updating the name and updating some of the brandy materials around that. And doing some of the more expensive things over time, a lot of similarly branded services like this, like the Vellasa Raffta, we're not talking about the running fleet like that, so we're not talking about different buses. But it does have a very unique brand, everybody recognizes it as its own custom bus wrappings. Those are the sorts of things that could be developed over time, as well as some of the later phase two things with GPS technology making that the priority for, making route four, or just no more circulator, the priority for some of those technologies later on. Again, this is all really just meant to emphasize the already successful route in the town and make it something that's more intuitive and easy for both residents and visitors alike. In phase two, one of the recommendations is GPS technology on buses. This is actually a GPS tracker on each of the vehicles itself that communicates to Dave and his team where the buses are, but you can also integrate that with a smartphone app. So one of the challenges to using transit is having to look at a schedule and understand when the next bus comes. And on-time performance isn't necessarily an issue in snowmess village, but at the same time you never know if the bus is going to be five or ten minutes late. And obviously you'd like to time it perfectly if you can, right? So by adding the GPS technology and the buses you can actually have smartphone apps that will tell you when the next bus is coming independent of the schedule. So it makes it a lot easier for residents and visitors. Just look at their phone, know the next bus is coming in five minutes, walk down to the stop and grab it. There's some upfront capital expense to get the GPS trackers on the buses, and that's why we've identified it as a Phase 2 project. And then the last recommendation related to transit relates to connections to the VLOSER after down at Highway 82. Pretty much RAPTA is the service provider between the intercept lot and town park station and other destinations in St. Thomas Village. The VLOSER after operates on a 15 minute headway and then the bus up 82 operates at a 30 minute headway. So if you wait, if you get off the bus at the wrong time on 82, you might have to wait 30 minutes to get all the way up to town park station. That's something we heard as a potential barrier to people wanting to park there and then take the bus up from the intercept lot. It's having to wait that 30 minutes so the recommendation here is to actually work with RAPTA to figure out a way to implement a higher frequency service between the intercept lot and snowmatch village itself. I didn't know if that was the case. I stated, wasn't anybody incorrect? Well, the issue is that in miniature the year outside of the winter season, there is only a quarter after and quarter till right after when the season is over with yeah when the season is over with so for spring summer fall you have a 30 minute headway between connections to snowmass so the RT could be running every five minutes on the highway quarter but you as a snowmass worker coming from Assault really only have half our targets for your trip. Are we prepared to pay for that? I think that's a discussion you need to have with the raft aboard. The answer would be if we want to pay for it. Possibly. I believe that in the enabling legislation, Breast Creek Road was noted as a trunk line. And if you're that to me, expresses that that's part of the main line of the transportation system and should be a cost shared just as a regional bus system on Highway 82 is shared by all the communities. And again, it dredges up all the things of this is trying to connect workers with jobs, workers take income home to their communities. So there's a win-win, it's a symbiotic relationship theoretically. And but they don't buy that and yeah you may have to put the bill yourself. We have a neo-tc meeting coming up where you discuss it there. Well maybe if there's a coffee shop there people won't mind waiting the thirty minutes. Well that was in this suggestion. All the folders coffee you have. To find the service. You better add a bathroom to them. Well they talked about a whole plaza. We have not identified funding timelines. We've kind of understood. I just know what is like to get anything done through raftable. Okay. I understand. Okay. The next set now. Understood. Okay. The next set of recommendations pertains to this guy, Keb Gondola, and this is one of the more interesting conversations we had with the community. We ask a lot of questions about the Skittles and particularly pertaining to what's working well about it, what's not working well about it, the alignment between the base village and the base mall. We also considered and asked about different technologies that could be implemented there. And generally we found some strong opinions on community support. We also found some strong findings just in terms of what we think can work and can't work there. And that really forms the basis of the recommendation. So the first part is that we investigated in a lot of detail different alignments. So we looked at the existing alignment kind of on slope side between the base village and the base mall. We also looked at the Benedict Trail kind of a little bit further to the west. And then we also looked at carriageway because those are all potential alignments. And coming out of that discussion and assessment of the alignment, we feel pretty strongly that it should retain its existing alignment. A lot of that has to do with the academic vitality of the mall itself, and establishing that really strong visual queue between the two, that people who are in the base village know that it's just a short distance up to the mall and they can see it up there. If that is relocated to Benedict Trailer carriageway, it just makes it even harder for people to navigate themselves to the mall and they can see it up there. If that is relocated to Benedict Trail or Carriage Way, it just makes it even harder for people to navigate themselves to the mall, even with wayfinding. Wayfinding is kind of a almost a bandaid at the end, if you need it, whereas we'd really like to maintain those strong visual cues that exist already. We also looked at different termini, pretty much felt strongly that the existing term night at the base village is probably in the right place. We were asked by the community to look at further uphill term night, so further up carriage way, maybe all the way to the top of the condos with a mid station at the mall itself. Generally carriage way already has walkways, a lawn that get you to the mall, so they kind of already have that facility and that's a pretty direct path. And then just the cost of going even further up the hill is pretty high. The main draw is between the mall and the base village, so we're recommending the Termini roughly staying where we are. Where we made some recommendations, primarily pertain to the different technologies. So there's further feasibility study that needs to be done on this and that's ultimately what we've recommended as a part of this plan is to really investigate a walkway alternative between the base village and the end of the mall. That could be non mechanized, it could be a path with stairs, it could have flat landings so people could rest between the village and the mall. Or it could incorporate mechanized elements, things like escalators, things like people movers. There's obviously the outdoor escalators at Beaver Creek. There's a way of incorporating those mechanized technologies into an outdoor walkway, even in extreme climates. So this would roughly be between the two, Term and I along the backside of the condos. Some of the benefits of doing something like a walkway, or that this is pretty much the only option that doesn't require an operator every time that you want to turn it on, right? So there's some benefit there, and it could, in that way, it's kind of all hours of the day that it operates, which is one of the challenges we heard about the Skittles, as people don't know when it's going to be operating and when it's not. And that's just another thing that people have to learn when they get to snowmess village. Even if it's not mechanized, we think that there's probably a way of designing it, that it's not too challenging to get between the two by the time that you do stairs of landings in between them. The other option that we looked at was what it would take to upgrade the existing gondola to a high-speed detachable gondola. The existing gondola carries about 860 passengers per hour uphill one way. A new gondola is more in the magnitude of 3,000 passengers per hour, so there's a pretty substantial difference there just in terms of the number of people it could carry. Some of the concerns we heard about the existing skittles, especially as it pertained to its speed, were just that a lot of the events that are kind of causing that crush capacity, it's when ski school gets out every day at the base village and it's when the concert's release on slip side at the mall in the summertime, right? And it's only about a five minute walk between the two obviously there's there's the hill so maybe it's a little bit longer if you're going in the uphole direction but if you let on an event with with a few hundred people they already have to wait in line over 15 minutes on the existing skittles just to you know do what would be a five minute walk so that's one of the reasons why we think a walkways is important for future consideration. But at the same time, it's a ski resort. It's kind of natural that if we're to do something mechanized and something really signature or different, I guess you could make the walkway signature itself, the gondola is kind of the natural alternative. If we looked at all sorts of other aerial technologies, we looked at subterranean technologies. And ultimately, there wasn't a lot of support for that or a lot of justification for the cost and the demand patterns out there. So ultimately, the recommendation here is further study of the feasibility of either a walkway or actually both a walkway and a gondola, the cost of either of those options, and then also doing some level of conceptual design of what those would look like particularly the walkway to communicate with those property owners and with other members of the community as to whether or not that is in fact something that they would prefer to a gondola. We feel pretty strongly that you at least need to look at that in great detail before saying that it needs to be a gondola. Well, let alone there's different property owners. I mean, this is, that sounds real simple. That's going to be really good. It's going to have to be snow melting, because obvious reasons. Yeah. And your five minute walk is really a 30 minute walk for people who come from sea level. Sure. It's going up. Right. I'm totally talking about that. The first tonight, they go down the bike path. There's a way down there already I think the walkway is going to be a challenge I'm not I'm not support just because of all the People come and go from all the little side roads coming in They're going to be dropped off and go over to the Fanny Hill on their skis? Yeah. I don't know. I think it's going to be a problem. There's no doubt that it's difficult. And when we went through this, and I was listened through a lot of this, I think what I kind of referred back is to that kind of an opening vision. And when you guys set your goal, just that, hey, we want to be a walkable community connections. And when we hear the biggest beef we hear is kind of that, when concerts get out, ski school gets out, or I can't get up and down fast enough. So what's the fastest way, the fastest way, is if you're in shape, is to walk. If you're not in shape, then it's worth waiting for the skittles. And I think when we looked at the underground and time again, what's below the skittles out and put a new gondola in. Even if we went to a high speed detachable gondola, if it was economically feasible, it was gonna speed it up by, I can't remember the number, but it was like 200 and how to extra people every 15 minutes to move. So that was kind of my takeaway, is that the gondola's not gonna end up moving more people because it's such a short distance, even if it was detachable. And so when you start to do all the different alternatives, that's where I think this walking path, whatever it might look like, there's no doubt it would be exceptionally difficult. But I was going insane, well, geez, we just spent some money and upgraded the gondola and make that happen. And that, the math showed that's not going to be the solution. That's not going to solve anybody's problem. It's going to be only a couple of them and extra people an hour. But from this picture, you were envisioning a walkway up the side of the condos there, right? Yeah, it would go pretty much along this side. You know, we want to respect the fact that that is an active ski run. So there's a lot of design challenges to make that safe and keep it off to the side. But obviously finding out where it ultimately goes and striking that right balance of closer to the condos or closer to Fanny Hill, those are the sorts of things that we need to be investigated, as well as that cross-access that Tom mentioned in making sure that as people get dropped off those interim points, that might be where the flat landings are that people can get it. Yeah, and like I say, the snowmelt is going to be a challenge because if you know Fannie Hill, the way you speak up here, the way kids come and the young kids use Fannie Hill, they use that side for all the little, they're all in a little terrain park. The kids come in and out of those little snow banks, and I pick a lot of people up there by the stomp bridge that I used to ski with for the day. I get just about killed every five minutes for different times because the kids come flying down there. So it's gonna be a tough, it's gonna be a challenge. There's no doubt of that. I mean, this is not an easy solution. That's not doubt of that. I mean, this is not an easy solution. That's it's not a slam dunk. Well, maybe that's not going to be a solution as well because let's recognize we are a tri-noto to try to, you know, I know what the town go is, but there's other alternative means to get up to the mall, hop on the bus. What's the other part of the equation? Is the ski company partly responsible if the high-speed quad would have been put in, Fannie Hill would be put back into the equation as Fannie Hill, a beginner area again, that the ski school could now use it. Yeah, but right now the GID owns the credit and then the GID pays the ski company that operated during ski hours and the GID pays the ski company that operated during ski hours and the GID pays the ski company pays for it during operating hours and the GID pays for it after after hours essentially. So but a detachable high-speed quad not quad but the God though in there by the time they get in they're going to be on top you know it's just just like getting in the base of but God though in there. By the time they get in, they're going to be on top. It's just like getting in the base of the God though and now going out camping, all of a sudden you're at the top ass a hill. That's why I think what we determined is that's not really a very interesting thing. It's an expensive solution that may not be worth the while. 4, 15 minutes. The walk is tough. You know, you can wait. But the walk would be exceedingly easier if there was a walk. Yeah, correct. I mean, if we're talking about connectivity, I think that is definitely the direction that we need to go. That, I mean, that's, I mean, going back, keep going back to Dave's point about we got to put sidewalks where people actually go. And people are very visual. So if I want to get from here to there, they're going to take the most direct line. And if there's a walkway, I think there would be a lot more connection between the two because you're not, you don't have to rely on a schedule of the schedule. And we don't have any count as to this whole problem, do we? In terms of the number of people that are currently going between the two? Well, we do in the wintertime because we get the results out of skittles in the busy times. We get that reported on a regular basis. How many people ride and blah, blah, blah. And observation is when Skate School lets out, it's kind of a zoo, but let's also remember that many of the kids just really like to get on the skittles and ride around. As an amusement park. It's also possible that the skittles stays in the walkways in addition to that so potential. And you're talking wintertime too for the walkway? I think it needs to work in the wintertime if it's going to be accessible. That means snow melt. OK. And again, we don't have a design, but the idea, this is kind of like, and I'm harking back just the stuff that I've read between connection between base village and the mall is a critical connection for lots of different reasons that you all know very well. And so how do we make that connection? So it's easier to use. And this is after going through four or ten, I don't know, a number of options. It's an expensive, difficult option, but it seemed to be the one that makes the most sense. So we do have a price point for this, the walkway, right? We don't have an estimate on it, but we went through on the scale looking at the options that were presented and kind of looked at them as the high end medium and low. And so obviously like you mentioned, we have to go through a whole design process and talk to the property owners and get a complete buy and complete community conversation on this. But it's basically what Charlie and the group have brought forward as well as we agreed that it's the best viable option to provide a year round solution in addition to the skills. And the question becomes cost and who pays. And that's something going forward. I mean, if this were to be adopted, some idea like this, we'd put some money in for design and say, hey, this is kind of a ballpark kind of idea, and then we'd have something to talk about. But that's a lot of decisions down the road. If in fact you want to do it. This is just kind of saying, this is something we'll explore at this point. I'd be interested to see how many people, if you've got into account for skittles. I don't think there's that many people that walk in summer. I mean, in winter as opposed to the summer. In summertime, when everybody's waiting to get up, everybody's all over the hill. There's not one particular path. And so walkway is certainly a direction, and everybody can follow that path. But in the winter time, everybody just hikes the right hand side, but not many people walk in the way. They don't. They don't. So maybe if the walkway was a solution, it'd be for some role in, you wouldn't have to worry about some of that. I think if it was there, people would use it. Yeah, I'm not going to use it. I mean, I'll tell you this, if you're down at the line of the Skittles, and it's a really long line, having to explain to someone how to get up there in another way, which means either walking down to the transit center or walking down the steps by the children's center crossing the street and waiting for a bus, it's beyond. People are exhausted, they don't want to do it. But a lot of people, if they're not caring skis or they have street shoes on or whatever it is, they prefer to walk. I mean, I would say a lot of people will work on the mountain walk because you don't want to wait and look. Well, people that work acclimated to the outside of the town is not a problem. I'm talking about the tourists, people. They're both small, not quite. It's going to be a challenge, right? Absolutely. I don't think there's that many. I really don't. Not for the, I don't think there's that many, the people that live here want to avoid it, because I don't think a lot of them want to be caught in or skittles because it's a kid thing. We don't have a size of the problem. Yeah. So. Okay. Okay. Parking recommendations, Four recommendations here. One of the things we heard about was a desire from, this actually came from Challenge Aspen, was to make it easier to access a slope side for their different programs. I guess really would like to make it that they can pretty much load on the slope side. Obviously it's a little bit idealistic, but at least long term we wanted to identify the potential for maybe planning for those disabled parking spaces as redevelopment occurs in that area so that that possibility could exist for them in the future. One of the other recommendations is wave-finding signage. This is different than the wave-finding signage for transit. This is basically improving upon the wave of finding that the town already has. As you're entering town by car, that you actually know where the different parking facilities are. To some extent, some of that has already been done. But we think that there's still opportunity to improve that a little bit. I was kind of second guessing myself driving in today and just saying, do we actually we actually need wayfinding and I do think that for people especially if they're only here for a weekend it would be a little bit easier with some more way finding down by the highline and a brush creek roundabout especially. We just went through and read it all the way finding. Okay two years ago. Yeah but I think the hard part is is like if you come in at the roundabout, you have no idea what day-skier parking is. You don't know that if there's four more people in your car that you could park in Laught Sea or go to two. I think it's just, it's very confusing. I mean, you come in and you see the parking lot, but then you're like, but the mountain's up there and the parking lot's here. I mean, I agree with what you're saying. There's a challenge to keeping it tasteful, I think, in that we want to provide this much information, but also respect the number. You can't read the signs. Or so, I mean, there's so many signs there about park here. I mean, I agree with the list. I mean, there's so much stuff going on. You get lost trying to look up signs and trying to figure it out. So then is it less of a new signage and consolidation and rethinking of it? I don't know. Well the accident happened. I mean there's really one message either paid parking or free parking. Yeah, the existing wayfinding sign, it was the general thought pattern behind it was to get you going in the right direction. So they're not very specific other than they show you the amenities and the, well not the amenities, but the points that you need to go, whether it be parking, whether it be lodging, skiing, and to go in the right directions and then it gets to those locations. What Charlie's talking about is taking it to next level and looking at our wayfinding when you get to those locations. Are we giving in the messages clear enough? You know, does the parking lot signs, lot six, lot seven kind of spell out before you get there what they are? Are they clear? Are we concise? Is our overall branding within the community concise whether it be getting to the buses and the transit stops or whether it's getting to the parking lots? No, I would have good that. I mean, I think, you know, a town park, like people don't know that they've parked a town park. So then I have to have like a whole discussion. Did your bus look like this or did it look like this? And, you know, because people are just so just want to get out there and they may be so flustered because they're running late to get their kids to ski school. Like it would be nice before you got in the bus if it was like you're at Town Park station to return to this destination. You need to take the snow mass circulator or whatever it is. You're at it that would help, yeah. And would that all sink with the new possible digital sign we might have down there? Would you? Would you? Or not would you? Yeah, we could sink that in. could sing that. You know, I mean, where? As parking lots full or whatnot. That would be the next technology. We all need to sing with these. How about we use our sign as you come into snowmants that thing would play. That digital. Right. Frequently just as welcome to snowmants village. Right. So they, the sign down there right now, the program that we have placed for the banners, as well as that sign is that it's for nonprofits, it's for information, it's for community events, and so that's why the signage is there. It's also limited by the number of letters, as well as it's only two rows. So it would be a bit difficult unless we say all lots full. One of the things we challenge with is welcoming people instead of saying a sign that says all lots full which means see a go back down valid. Well there's a sign right before this says welcome to snowmass village. I agree but when you say a sign that all lots full then everybody goes in their car goes Martin gonna turn on we're gonna go back to ask and we're gonna gonna go blah, blah, blah. So we gotta watch on our messaging. Yeah. Okay. I think that's a good point. Yeah. But it's also letting know lots or full. I mean, the real thing is, I mean, we do pick an alerts when there is, it's a weekend that they are full because we don't want them to get all the way up to the delots and they're and in his full and they can't park and They have to put them out on my inner sought supply. So it's where we ought to put it. It's all about this messaging and trying to embrace and encourage and educate what's going on So Anne's already alluded to at the next recommendation is to begin implementing an Intelligent Transportation System for real-time parking information So this would help people with that decision before they even get to town. Obviously having the science to reinforce that as you can see in the bottom right where the spaces are available. Incorporate in that's the way finding helps once they're already getting to town. Having the real-time information I've been warned about using bail examples but using a bail example you can actually look on your phone before you go and know whether or not you're going to the village or whether or not you're going to Lion's Head or whether you're going to be re- Creek. Yeah, but so whether you're coming here because the lines are too long. Maybe. Over there I mean you're talking capacity over there that parking lot is filled all the time. That's right. So this is a little bit different than there. So I'm not sure how many times a year the town park lot is filled. Okay. It's actually on Saturday. David can also be is the day school. It's long. Yeah. That's true. If you have a strong winter with weekends, no storms, it's filled. Yeah. 80 or 7 or 3 out of 7 days. So now you're at 30 plus percent, moving to 50 percent. So then it's a question of when is what triggers this? I think the point here is trying to help our customers, whether they're, and here's an issue that we're volunteering about. One of the things that Charlie was talking about is a guess that's trying to check in and how does he find his way. Then there's also this day skier that you're trying to manage and isolate to peripheral lots or give a certain number access to the core area. These are all challenges, and they're different user groups. And so the messaging to each one of them is very complicated. That's why the way finding is a complex and not as straightforward as you'd like it to be, sort of program and we struggle with it. Maybe we'll back to checkpoint Charlie. It worked. I don't disagree, but it's not you, Charlie. It's different. It's either you don't have to work three games. I'm getting that. Yeah. It worked. It did have you were talking to a human being, and you could figure out what was going on and stop and take the time. I do that. But there were a lot of residents that said, this is killing me and that was a four to seven second diversion through the rodeo booth lane. So you have a lot of masters to serve. Part of the checkpoint Charlie problem was on the express lane. There was a person. There shouldn't have been a person. Right. Okay? So the people that want to talk to people go to the express lane. Yes, it should be just local and there'd be nobody there. If you wanted to get the information, go to yellow. If they all follow the rules, yeah. information. You could check for it. If they all follow the rules. Yeah. Well, okay. Moving on. It didn't work though. Yeah. That's great. One of the things heard. And you spent a lot of money. We built it. We already built it. Hello the round. Yeah. It's still there. It's bust agent. It's pretty expensive bust Asian. Let's see. Back to checkpoint, Charlie. I like that thing. The last recommendation is further study and I think this would happen as a part of the comprehensive plan, correcting from our own. That Clint, address overall supply demand and occupancy of parking within the town. That was a pretty big question to ask as a part of the Connictive View Plan. And we wanna make sure the comments are so that get the level of detail they deserve. So we're recommending for you to study on that. And lastly, two recommendations related to traffic calming in the community. The first relate to future consideration of speed humps on two roadways, Snowmass Club Circle and Club House Drive. What we've done in the report is identify different criteria and data that should be further collected to identify whether or not speed humps are appropriate on those roadways. Part of that also involves a public involvement process to make sure that it's not just a couple of people in the community but the broader community who actually are looking for those improvements. That could be a pilot for the town that maybe could look towards other locations and using that same framework in the future. But as a part of this plan, we've recommended it where we heard the concerns which was on Snowmass Club Circle and Clubhouse Drive. The problem there is everybody knows that the employee housing is at the end of the street. And that's where everybody sees the daylight. And they've got to get to work. And they've got to get to work or they got to wear and they have to go to. So they speed up and it's always at the employee housing and I'm sure that's where this is being driven from. Yeah, there's a pretty good amount of research on the efficacy of speed humps versus stop signs versus speed bumps. It's a different speed humps versus bumps is different things. So you know typically we're designing speed Humps to to make those Where do we function with kind of a 15 mile an hour design speed? So that's what we'd be hoping to achieve in the future 15 seemed like a lot What so it happened what what you see with speed bumps or with With stop signs is the people stop or they slow down really slow and then they make up for it in between You know, so they gun it up to 30 and then they slam on the brakes again, so you know Speed bumps work with this question for in how would that work for the city for plowing As long as they're designed right there fine, you know, there's a couple of factors you want to make sure is one emergency Services they're not being delayed to is transit services that they're able to get over, the Humps and not Cods, you know, an issue. And then three is the plowing. But you know, they've been putting communities around the U.S. and with snow removal. And you know, our guys aren't opposed to them. What a key is making sure that we go through a public process with the residents to make sure that we're not responding to, you know, one side or the other side. And so that was one of the things that I asked Charlie. This topic actually got added into the plan because of my request is to helping with some guidelines to establish some protocols so that we can talk about these things on more level basis. Because we do get hit from different sectors or residents moving to town and they want certain elements. And so whether it be crosswalks or whether it be traffic calming devices. And I think in the plowing issue speed humps are kind of the new mechanism or device to slow traffic and then also allow for snow removal and larger vehicles to get over them without jarring the feelings out of people's teeth. So speed humps like cemetery lane was that considered a speed hump? Yeah up yeah yes that's a speed hump. they're about 12 or 14 feet long. that's part of a speed table. a little bit of air off of those. they're more slanted in than they're at 200% out there and they're concrete. I haven't drove cemetery in a while. They're concrete right? yeah they're flat. So it's about the same size then as the speed hump. But the speed hump is more rounded. But the same, I guess, length 12 to 14 feet. There's a couple dozen different traffic-going devices and they'll have different names that are this different from each other. We ought to put them all over the village. Clubhouse is just one of them. I mean far away people come flying around that on that road. Yeah. And I'll put this on. It's not used. Because I usually have my dogs. I mean, you know, the question becomes a balance of, are we trying to urbanize our town to the extent or I mean all this trade off stuff that we really need to think through but sorry, but just yeah I mean, I think that's what this criteria is just that is there's trade off and there's also a speed humps pumps traffic calming Everybody wants it because everybody else is a speed or not then. And so that's part of these criteria. There's engineers, haters, everybody in the neighborhood really wants us or just one person that's hyper-concerned about it or not. And that's part of these recommendations. John's looking at me because... Oh, and then there's how many people use snowmass-closed circles? Right. So there's a lot of criteria that goes into that,. Traffic engineers. Right. And all that criteria needs to factor into that. Last recommendation relates to ability to bike on some of the busier roadways in town, Bresch Creek Road and Alcric Road. I heard a lot of concerns in the community from bicyclists and drivers alike about sharing the road out there, especially in the uphill direction. I don't understand. We've got a bike lane. The path? Yeah, the path. Yeah, the concern that we often hear is kind of the bicyclists who are more recreational in nature and the stronger. It's not designed for road bike people. That's what we hear. That's right. Really, it really is not. It's not designed for road bike people. That's what we hear. That's right. Really, it really is not. It's not, but I ride mine on it. Yeah, a lot of roadbakers do not want to ride their bike on the path. I don't mind riding the road, the path coming up, fresh cream, because it's dangerous to be on the road. Or going down, it's a great ride. It's nice, but I will not take the path to go up to my normal route, up to the top of the divide. I usually ride up Rush Creek Road and if there's no shoulder there and it's kind of nobody really gives you the right way. And how many riders are we talking about? How many drivers are we talking about on the bike? I mean, if this goes divide, a community relationship. I mean, but this goes back, I don't know if you have any more slides. No, is that so good? So I'm going to go back, this goes back to that first slide and maybe I'll try to put it up. I mean, this is the policy question. And you know, when we talk about connectivity and we talk about pedestrian friendly and those kind of goals that the council laid out six or eight months ago whenever it was, these are kind of those solutions. Do we want to go down this path? And that's why I think we kind of skipped over that first slide fast. But fundamentally, I think this is really when we come back for an adoption process, and everything else is a detail. If this is really articulates well what we're aiming for, then the details can be talked about lots going forward. But do we want to aim for this or is this overstating the case because we want to be it, but we want to do it in a more manner that's more, I'm trying to think of something, but in a different manner or is this really, no, we want to make this thing happen and we're willing to understand that it's going to mean we're going to have narrower roadways and wider shoulders. That's all it is to say. We talked about being a bike friendly community. Does it necessarily mean by putting the road people, the road bike people on a bike path, where traditionally they want to be on the road. And if we truly want to be a bike-friendly community, we've got to work with both sides of that bike-friendly community, the people that want to recreate, they're too afraid. There's no way in the world I'm going to get on the road with my bike. OK, that's kind of like my wife's version of the bike. For me, if I want to train for five days a week, I want to ride on the bike. For me, if I want to train for five days a week, I want to ride on the road. And I'm usually climbing a hill. Not coming downhill, is it really a problem? Of course, around here, you're usually going with the traffic either. Most of the time, ahead of the speed limit. Okay, so it's hard to maintain the speed limit, so it's not a problem. It's just like going down the first creek road on your road bike. I like, I do like the bike path, but you'll see some die-hard stay on the road and they're going with the traffic usually faster than the speed limit. It's not a problem, but when you come up, when you like, when you like the climb, it's the problem. You want a little bit more user-friendly room to climb up that road because the bike paths are going to go back and forth and back and forth. They drive a road bike person absolutely crazy and then there's just there's just it's no room for it. I'm sorry. Is that something? Yeah, my opinion. If you're not going 15 miles an hour, you shouldn't be on the road. So if you're climbing, generally no one's going to climb brush creek road going 15 miles an hour, you shouldn't be on the road. So if you're climbing, generally no one's gonna climb brush creek road going 15 miles an hour. So you should be on the bike path. If you're coming downhill, you can go 30 miles an hour, so it's okay to be on the road. That's, again, that's your opinion. That's right. Well, it's your opinion. That's my opinion. That's my opinion. We want a bike lane. Well, I think that there's a bigger question here. And it gets back into the comprehensive plan and some of the very early thoughts of those who found it's snowmast village. And what we're being tested to do right now is do we want to be who we have been for a number of years? This resort town Or do we want to begin to look more towards urbanization within a small village? To me, that's the crux of how I'm looking at each one of these You know the philosophy is great and the vision is great But it has to be put in the framework of who do we want to be? Yep. That's a question that we try to get an indication from a lot through the public process as we're talking about things like shoulders, as we're talking about things like sidewalks, flashing beacons at the crossings. Yes. Those are moving in a different direction than the town's history, obviously. And that's an important thing. And we tried to really vet those issues and ask people very clearly, is this a direction you're comfortable with the town moving forward? You know, Charlie, one of the things that I was thinking about over the weekend after I read all of this, well, we had that whole question and the debate about do we want to have a stoplight in this town? So use that type of a question and the answer was no. So then the question becomes one of to what extent is our community prepared? I know you had community hearings but I don't't know how many have attended each one of those. To me, it's the framework by which our town and our community has to help us make these decisions. I don't think it's just a council decision. I think the community needs to help us with each one of these. I know the feedback we heard from the community that did participate was overwhelmingly positive for the sorts of devices we've recommended in this plan. Obviously, questions about was that the broadest cross section of the community are there other people that need to weigh in that? I think those are really valid questions and concerns that need to be considered. But what we heard was overwhelming support for what was recommended. How many people? I think at the second workshop we had somewhere between 30 and 40 people who came out. Well, we also had, it's not just the people attending, but it's also, we took the Wikimac, Mac, Mac comments as well, and that kind of guided in the sense of where the concerns were and how things wanted to be addressed and They were concerned about the crossing was all the roads. They were concerned about walkability so and that was 350 Wasn't there like 600 something coming? We don't have a way because of the way the filters of identifying unique users But just in terms of total number of comments. I know that one of our early goals was safety and to a lot of people that meant just getting across the street like fresh creek in a safe manner. So it may be wise that we test this back out with the community survey as we move forward, but that's down the pike. I think you're talking about a vision that's much broader than the nervous of transportation and the network. And that's what this community outreach was advertised to us. What you're really talking about is a vision of the community as a whole going forward of this age-old question of rural versus urban. And I think that it was decided, not very recently, but it was decided in the comprehensive plan. And I know that that's in tune forward as we speak now, but you're talking about 50,000 foot level vision, and this is more like a 15,000 foot vision because it's a narrow area. And if you're a member of the community and you think everything's fine with the transportation system and the connectivity that we have, you're not going to bother. But if you're talking about changing the fundamental vision from urban to rural, and that would be in the comprehensive plan process, you might have different feedback. I don't know. I don't know either. The vision that's contained in the comprehensive plan now is clearly against stoplights, sidewalks, things that are more urban in nature in favor of the rule. That may have changed, I mean, to last, it's been about 10 years since that comprehensive plan was updated, but that was an affirmation of the original 1998 in favor of rule versus urban. And that's kind of what you're talking about in that area. And I understand what Charlie and Ann and David are talking about as well. But to me, it's a different perspective in terms of here's how we can improve our connectivity and transportation. And then you're talking about a fundamental community value which would be up here in terms of vision. Just my thoughts. I think there's also the issue of your rural area with urban challenges. And most rural areas don't have 11,000 ADT on their two-lane road road. Most rural areas don't have a transit system that carries 500,000 people a year. Most urban areas don't have hyper-ride programs, but you do. And you're on a cross of developing a major PUD within your community. Didn't move in that for you. You're also looking at redevelopment and some key older core areas and residential areas, high density residential areas. And that begs, the reading between the lines, that begs that there is going to be some growth. And that growth is what you're trying to address in a sensitive way using these recommended mechanisms, but they come out of an urban environment. To make the pedestrian safer to walk on the street, sidewalk has been universally accepted as the answer. You can build a trail that's recreational off on the side. But if you get a commuter running late to work, he's going to run down the street. He's not going to deviate and try and find the side, the recreational trail. So you've got a lot of challenges and yes, why we're being really sensitive to this and revisiting the vision is that this is a big challenge for the community. This is going to change some of the flavor of it, but if done well, the whole edit could be on it. Sensitively done and could be attractive. Take for example the pedestrian walkway on the side of Fanny Hill. Now if it was landscape and you're probably going to have to do this to keep the adjacent property owners happy, but if it's well landscaped and creates many parks at every one of those lane inner spaces, then you create public open space. You put art in it. You could have many park elements to it. I mean, there's a lot of things you could do. And it's not just, oh, why did we put a sidewalk going up the side of Fannie Yell? It's now an amenity and I think in some ways that's what we're trying to Well, I would probably make it an Alpine garden similar to what the Betty Ford garden is. Yeah, you could do That's just one of many things I'm not trying to offer the solution. I'm just saying try and think of it as a win-win, not as uncompromising my aesthetic sense for an improvement that's gonna try to make things better for people that are trying to move around here. I think that's an important caveat when we did communicate with the community about this. It wasn't due like side-oxes or no. Typically the response we got was, yeah, we're generally in favor of walkways, of street lighting. As long as it's done well and tastefully and recognizing the character of the town, and there's a lot of interpretation to get it in that direction. But there was always that, if it respects the fact that we're a mountain community, and if it looks nice nice and if it's well done, if it doesn't pollute the sky at night, those sorts of things. That's what we heard. So where do we go tonight? So I mean, we wanted to get the whole thing in front of you all. Eventually we'd like to get it adopted at some level. I mean, next week, I think it's next week we've got a steering committee, the citizens that have been kind of reviewing this going through, so we get through that. What I'd recommend at this point is we have another discussion kind of in general on the first meeting in May and then potentially and for adoption, I guess that would be the 16th or 18th. Whatever the second meeting in May is, I don't know if there's any major hiccups that you've seen. We can certainly address the comments we've got tonight. But you know, a final discussion on the second and hopefully adoption, you know, consideration of adoption at least on the 18th. It would be a schedule I put forward for you guys to think about. I think it needs to be timed with the conflant. Because if we put this in place, then it usurps the conflant. Well, it's certainly, I don't think it used to upset. I think the idea, if you remember, when we did this in the poster was to start informing the comp plan to say, hey, when we're going through this comp plan discussion, that there are going to be some walkability is a critical issue. I keep kind of hard getting back just for that one. It's broader than that. But walkability, connectivity is something the council said is a high priority. And we've identified kind of a way to move that forward. And then if the comp plan comes back and says, hey, you blew it. Then the comp plan's kind of the check for it. But I think if you get this adopted, it kind of starts informing that discussion. And it's the same thing for the poster. When the poster gets before you in the next couple of months, the poster is going to lay out and say, hey, here's the demands we need for open space, for parks, for trails, and then it'll start informing the comp line. So I don't think it's a use, I hope it's an information kind of, you know, start that formulation discussion. I would really want to make sure we have a lot of community input. Does this is massive? Well, and so the massive part is the actual implementation. First of all, yes, I agree. I think you're what you said as far as the juxtaposition of safety versus urbanization versus rural nature. I think your analysis is right on. And but I think I would harken back into you guys, all set as a council, we want to improve connections. And when you improve connections, there's trade-offs. We have implemented that original vision of the community. We are very rural. We don't have very many sidewalks. That's by design and really going forward. It's like do we want to make sure that we want to, I had that idea of doing more. This doesn't do we want to make sure that we want to have that idea of doing more? This doesn't say it has to be done. It says if you're going to do it, here's 10 spots to do it. If you're going to try and improve transportation, here's eight ways to do it. And whatever those recommendations are. So it's the path forward. We start taking these initial incremental improvements. We do that. I think the Flash and Beacons analysis that someone talked about earlier is exactly right. We've got $75,000 in the budget this year. I think, I mean, with the feedback we've got, we think there's probably pretty good support for it. But if we put one or two up, or just one even, and get that initial feedback, I mean, that will find out pretty then quick. I would imagine, is this working or not? Is this completely out of the character of what people are except or people pretty comfortable that works? And I think this sets that path forward. So there've been people say, hey, what are you doing? We can say, here's the plan that we're going off of. If it's dead or wrong, it's not in stone. We come back and we can change it. It's in word for God's sake. We can change it all day long. So is this a five year plan, a one year plan? Do we have timelines? There's not. It's on purpose. I mean, there's some short-term and long-term things for trans. It's some of the different goals or moderated differently. But I think really what it is. That's what I keep kind of hard coming back to this slide in the page three of the plans. This is close, and we can start taking some of these steps to say, go in forward, and then, you know, it's going to be an annual decision by the Council. You know, what do you want to put money towards? Because I would say the majority of these decisions are really capital. I mean, we're spending money on different budgets. But I mean, if Joe is here, you didn't have a chance to stay for this discussion, but just as an example, he's a gigantic advocate for sidewalks, up brush creek, between curns and housing. And he would sit here and articulate all the demands that he hears for that type of amenity, or not a thing, amenity, that kind of infrastructure. But then it's very easy to argue and say, well, that's urban. It's right at looking at daily, and it's beautiful, and what are we doing? And I think, with this vision of saying, as we really want to put an emphasis on the ability for someone to walk from A to B, and we define the A's and B's. It's clearly says, or does not say, put sidewalks everywhere. It's identified the hotspots. It's identified the real hot crossings for us to at least to start to explore the concept of it. And the Joe's example I used for Joe was decided to walk that was one of the hotspots that's identified the class. Right. We'll see you. So I mean, what I would suggest and for the second we continue this discussion, you guys have a chance to chew on this some more and then you know it's all right we'll see what happens in the second but we could you know schedule out you know potential consideration of adoption on the 18th and you know make tweaks as we need to in between so do we need to you have your priorities you stated your priorities priorities. And we need to make a decision when we come around again on what priority will be best for our $75,000 spent this year. We've already identified those for the brush creek crossings. So what I'm doing right now is Charlie's identifying those brush-cut crossings and what they look like. It's in clear from town park, right? How to implement, because all the estimates are higher than the 75,000. Those work, there were two, weren't they? It's in clear in town park. Right, but I mean there's all the other crossings along brush-cut crossings. Those are the priorities. Right, and so I'm trying to figure out what elements we can do with the 75, whether it be putting in some of the signage right now, the crossing signage, and then doing some dollars for the design to get the hard infrastructure into next year's budget cycle. So that's what I'm working on. I'd be cautious about putting those crossing signs of all the recommended places. Well, they're 40,000 bucks a set and we only have 75. about putting those crossing signs of all the recommended places. Well, they're 40,000 bucks a set and we only have 75. So you get one, two in there, which would be the two. Two. Yeah, well, it's going to be an income right. And we have in the right. You put, I mean, town park seems to be the top priority. It's probably the top priority, but you also have to change the bus stop there. Yeah, right. So I I mean that's going to eat up that 75 pretty quickly. But I think that that's where you need to start. I mean that's when I people are you cannot see people at night. It's a bad spot. It's a very bad spot and that's the most use. And changing that bus stop I think is really important because it just you got to put people where they're going. I agree. That one's the most critical one. So I think if we do that then we'll start getting feedback from the community. Immediately. And it's a two-phase project. Like I said the infrastructure in there can't afford to do all the improvements. So I'm trying to figure out how to phase those things in. So you can answer your question, Constable. I think if you guys can buy off in the vision in the generalities, then we've got some money that we'll start working with and you'll see those individual projects coming back through design, through whatever else we have to do. Whatever else we have to do, they get them implemented. I think like Mark said too, and once we start, people start seeing something's going on, there's a lot of people who don't pay attention obviously. What's happening in the village? And this will get their attention. Once something starts happening they might start paying attention. They might give their two cents and would a great way to get them involved in the community. I do have another question for you. In regard to the intersection at Al Creek and Creek. There wasn't an estimate for the roundabout. Is that part of the plan? I think the estimate in the text was from the for the crossings part of it. It wasn't the roundabout. Right. So is the plan to get an estimate for the roundabout there as well? I do have an estimate. We've done that before. I need to revisit that as we go through this process. Yeah I think that would be good to add in here and I think it would be good to have feedback from the fire department as well because I think that that's the major issue when that intersection gets clogged up. Very true. I know that we had that whole design and the costing estimate before in the fire department and all that people had input and that design that's in there was taken that SGM study and plop and here. That was not cheap. No, there's drainage and there's a lot of like three parts to it and utilities. Another question too. Yeah. John, can you tell us the status of an easement over the property. It's kind of easy to go ask a landowner, hey we want to do this and that. But then when you get him to go sign for things, it's, oh well you didn't tell me that. It's this and it's that. We got another one that just came up today, same deal. Do you think the potential to get that bridge built this spring is reality? Yes. I mean, the landlord hasn't changed his requirements, but getting a legal description to put into. I don't create those. Okay, so when people go out and say we want to do this here, and the owner says yes, okay, then when it comes down to they say take it to my lawyer here and the owner says yes okay that's then when it comes down to they say take it to my lawyer it doesn't fly. Same thing, exact same thing happened today so I can't give you a hard day. Okay I just with spring coming people getting anxious to get on their bikes I think it would be a priority to get that thing taken care of and I'm obligated to say I'm like closed with a priority to get that then take care of. And I'm obligated to say Tom Blake's closed for the wildlife closure till June. Right. So we haven't told Jim. I'm just sighted a lot of wildlife. Well, I feel obligated to say Tom Blake is closed but the ridge trail is not closed and that's one of the first ones that will open. I'm just, I hear you. I hear you. I guess my other comment was just on, we were talking about shoulders and high line road. And it's a high line road in order to put the shoulder in there would have to be stepped down. There's not an opportunity to just make a shoulder on that road, right? There's areas. So right now this section has, as we talked about before, varying sections. That one has enough width in some of those pull-out areas to be fine, but it might have to dip down and have that separated section. Sorry, we don't have all the details yet, but right now it's proposed as a sidewalk, curb, and gutter section, and then might have to vary in different areas based on that steepness because it's very steep right there by a semi-scope circle. You may go from a widened shoulder into a sidewalk section, you know, just to give that four foot buffer. Okay, thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Next agenda is a draft of an employee survey. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks, John. Appreciate it. Thank you. Next agenda is a draft of an employee survey. So I'm going to jump on this, Travis did a lot of the labor work for us, so he's going to help out if we need to make any adjustments. But during the 26-budget review process, Council directed us to put together a, what I guess we started referring to as a climate survey and employee survey for climate and employee, an employee climate survey. And so what we've gone ahead is gotten a number of drafts from different organizations, put together what we thought as a solid draft, but really what we wanted to do before we got too far down the path was to double check with you guys, are these the types of questions the council was looking for, guys or these types of questions the council was looking for is the type of information the council was looking for and then make sure that in fact whatever was going to be garnered from it was going to answer the kind of questions that you all had that sparked the discussion during the budget process. And so we've got the draft before you tonight for your guys' consideration what you saw as the paper version. Obviously, we set up what we were envisioning as an electronic version. So depending on answer A, you might go to an A or a box, come up or speak. Just like the community survey, exactly. So our big goal tonight is to say, to ask the fundamental question, are we on the right path? Is there something else we need to be asking about? Are we answering the questions that the council wanted to get answered? And make sure that we're doing what you wanted to have done. Well, my first comment when I looked at it, when we talked about this as part of the budget, I thought we had agreed it would be an outside administered survey. So we would maximize on maintaining confidentiality and input from the employees and whoever that company was would provide counsel with the feedback versus it coming back through the town filtered and then summer here. So what happened between what my notes that we were going to do and this did we just decide gathering surveys put it together? So in the budget if you remember we didn't put any money in for the development of the survey. That was the discussion back and forth when the budget was finally adopted. There was no extra dollars put in there for the development. And so if that is something that we've been in, at least my recollection is when we, I think, was when we were doing a FAB when Greg Smith was here, this conversation came up, I think, slightly about how best to do it and get these kind of, get the survey going. And I thought I got a read that we could do it in-house and save some dollars. If we're wrong, then so be it. What would be what we're trying to do is say, if these are the types of questions you're looking for, then we can outsource it and pay those dollars. But at this point, we've kind of got a draft to say, hey, at least save us some money to give it to an out firm that's outside the organization. As far as confidentiality goes, we think we can set this up. We're very confident we can set this up in a way that keep employee confidentiality. But if you guys said, hey, no, we want to make sure it's all outside, it's just a matter of spending the dollars for what may have happened. And I don't know if you said this, but I think regardless of who executes the survey, step one would be getting the questions lined up. So make sure that we're gathering the right data in the end. Well, the bottom line of one of these is not only the climb up, but the trust factor within an organization. So that's one of the reasons why most organizations go outside to have it done and then reported to their board or council. Totally is. This is the date of the came back. So I'm just putting that out there. And what people participated they knew the town was going to administer it. My guess is that you get the same number. I mean if we administer it internally or we ring somebody else out, if somebody's not going to find the finishing, they're not going to say, well, gee, that's being done internally versus externally. I think someone's not going to finish it. They're not going to finish it. But again, that's my opinion. And that's why we're bringing it back to you guys. This is our chance to check in with the council and say, you know, we didn't put dollars in the budget. We've got to draft it together. If there's something we've got to change, if there's an approach, we've got to change. We're all, that's fine. That's why we're here in April. You know, before we start the budget, before we do anything, we wanted to get it before you to make sure that it's meeting the needs. This was a direction from you guys to get something going. This is our shot at getting something done. Well, I've read through it. I have changes. I have a lot of changes. Let's do it. So we need to answer the first question. Do we want an outside company to do it or do we want to go internal? somebody to do it or do, they want to go internal. Well, first of all, outside company or we go internal, what happens to the answers to this person's survey? How are we going to act upon this? Who's going to act upon this? So in other words, are you going to say, you're going to get a memo saying, look, we've got seven town people who are very dissatisfied, and because a lot of those hidden questions were, if you strongly disagree, go on. And a lot of people really don't want to go on it. I don't think a lot of people really want to spend that much time on it. But if it's coming in turn, the results are coming internally, there's got to be a way that you will know you can track. Who's doing it? Who's doing it? So that I wouldn't be able to do if you want to make it anonymous, you have the ability to set it up that way. The only way you could potentially track or respond it is by tracking their IP address. I was actually having a conversation with Doug about that today about how easy or difficult that is and conversation kind of spiraled beyond me. I simply put I would not have the ability to track any individual response. Barring, you know, a comment that was, you know. Well, I think, since I first mentioned it, since you said strongly disagree, if a person really wants to strongly disagree, they're going to give themselves up and what they disagree and about, and you're going to find out it's in this department and you understand this particular employee person. So we don't need to put those comments in there. I mean that's the kind of stuff that our thought was if someone strongly disagrees we want to understand why. If there's a concern that's going to compromise confidentiality, those comment boxes can go away. And to answer your kind of your first question, what are we gonna do this for? You know, we'll use whatever information we can get, but this was a question that you all wanted to figure it out. And so that's why I wanna make sure ranching your questions, and then whatever we've got, we'll utilize to our ability. Anyway, I'll just... Yeah, researches. But that's my first. Research has shown that employees are more likely to answer a climate survey if it's not administered internally in results are handled independent of the company. That's so well-documented in the literature that if we do this in those costs about $3,000, that's all a cost to have one of these done. So what are we trading off to do it internally? We want 100% participation and we want to maximize confidential. That's my go. I don't know anyone else's. But that was the intent of an employee survey for me. I think the intent is to gather as much critical data as you can. And my comment was, right now it only gives you the option to comment if you strongly disagree. But I think you should also have the ability to comment if you disagree. And so, you know, we can gather as much information as possible. And I think, I mean, I don't know to the extent what people will answer and what they won't answer, but, you know, if you say I work for the police department and I you know you can pretty well narrow it down to who who's going to be answering it so are you restricting what kind of answers you're going to get based on the questions you're asking so I think if that's if we're really trying to fair it out, what's going on, probably an independent survey would be, you might get better data that way. I'm just, I tell you, you know, being in the business for a long time, I've learned that the minute the company, the minister, is their own internal. The quality of your data is the quality of your data because it was done internally. There's always the issue of trust. Independent gives you much better results. That's where I would prefer we go. I mean, I don't have any experience in these types of things. So I mean, I rely on people like Markey. I mean, I tend to some degree believe what Clint was saying about it doesn't really matter. They're going to finish it. They're going to finish it. I mean, my kind of thought was, is that this is an idea that we're using to gather information. And if things come up that we see are red flags, then we have to take further measures to kind of figure out how to deal with these things and maybe then you go to that. I don't know. You know, people don't, if they think it's going to be a red flag, they don't put it down. They'll be first and foremost. Look, if I work for the police department, and I don't like the color of hair, I'm not going to put that down because retaliation can happen. Because I don't come out in the results comments. And that's a part of our crime. For example, but I've seen internal surveys lead to a lot of retaliation in organizations. I think some of our departments is going to be pretty obvious who the squeaky will is in a lot of situations you know and other that may squeaky wills that you can't tell the difference between one of the other. It's just like you're saying there's a police department if we have eight to ten officers and everybody thought everything was working fine and then all of a sudden the red flag is waived. And but you don't know who it is. Ever, you know, does it independent survey going to, is that going to make that person come out more? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. When we talk to the other communities that were still a lot of these questions from, They've all done it internally. But I mean, again, it's only $3,000. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I talk them big bucks. Yeah. And so I don't know that that's, if you guys said, go spend the money, we'd find the money, we can do it externally. And that's not a big $3,000. I don't know do, I think what Travis said, we can't track it. We're confident in saying it's going to be confidential. If you think it's going to change the data, then we can spend the $3,000. And then my next question is going to be, are these the types of questions that you want to see develop? I just... Well, I... When was the last time? Well, several years ago, there was some type of a survey or something within the town. Confidential 360. Yeah, the confidential 360 that backfired. And I, people need to know all the history. But it has the potential. It was a 360 evaluation process. That was used. So you would evaluate 360. So like Marky Butler is getting evaluated be 360 like my boss, my laterals and my subordinates. And some of those came back to not be real positive for employees within the town. And created a pretty bad toning. Some of those employees are still here. I mean, I would say we run that same risk with this. I mean, with the climate survey, I mean, that's the questions you're asking. That's reason why I wouldn't do it internally. I go extra. I think it's the same much. It was on Wordm by, and it's actually outside of the organization, they selected the data and I just remember they had one and they had another one. I think it's a chair. I think I can go sit. I think I can't sit over my chair. It's a night. You can feel it for a while. I remember another one that was done. And you know, I found that with both of those surveys, it was the same kind of outcome as far as you had people that absolutely would not do the survey, even though it was being done by an outside because they still felt that there was a way that their answers were going to get back somehow to the town. And so I feel that whether it's done by an independent or whether it's done inside, that if somebody is not going to answer, they're just not going to answer. Because they're always, is that fear that they, then it might come back to them whether it's done independently or not. Now, if you want to back to what Tom was saying about how somebody might be called out because maybe there is a squeaky wheel and everybody knows who that squeaky wheel is, maybe you take out the department so that it's a townwide kind of collection and so it's not then trigger down to a smaller area. That might be another way so that people don't feel like, oh, well, if I check, and there's no guarantee that somebody's not going to check police even though they work in the clerk's office and then fill out the survey nasty or really nice for them. I mean, there is no guarantee any of that either. So well then if we were to do it internally all the responses Whatever comes out of surveys you come directly to the council and not first to the town Okay, I mean it's up to I mean again We this was a direction from you guys and I met y'all as the council. So we're trying to figure out how do you want to get the information back and a couple things. How do you want to do it? Which would be how do you get the information back and then are we asking the right questions. And so this is our shot at it. It's something you want to do different. We're all ears. But I want to make sure that we're doing it for the body and all of you guys, how you want to receive the information. And once you have the questions, if you do want to do it independent, it's probably cheaper because we have the questions we hand it to them off and we say, here, you know, you run the survey and it can be done that way as well. So we can do it either way. Is there, do you have questions in here that invalidate one another? The invalidator approach to doing employee surveys? So you may answer one thing here and then you answer something different somewhere. No. In fact, we did it. We wanted to make sure in case someone was taken it fast. We did, basically if you strongly agree, you're gonna be generally more happy than someone was taken it fast. We did basically if you strongly agree, you're going to be generally more happy than someone who strongly disagrees. And we formed all the questions in that manner. So we didn't do the reverse logic to make sure someone's reading. We did, we thought about it. We looked at it and we purposely didn't do that approach. And again, if that's something you thought, you know, an expert coming in could help with. We could certainly ask their opinion, but we thought that one through and our guess was that most folks are going to go through it pretty quick and we didn't want to put a trick question in and get a false read on it. So this survey hasn't been validated. In what way? There's research methodology and validation of surveys to see if the intent to be a question is the way people read it? The inter-reader reliability? No, I mean what we've done is we've stole questions from other organizations and so I mean we took it and said here's how other people have done it and tried to see if this is what you guys are looking for. And if you wanted to, I mean, the sort of answer your questions, we did not have an independent body look at these to make sure we're getting the answers to questions you might want. You know, based upon what we said, I'd like question number three in what department do you work in basically it's kind of the giveaway. So I mean, personally, I don't know if that should even be there. That's, that's, that's, you know, yeah. That would increase confidentiality a lot. And again, if that's the goal, we could take that out. Because it's, and whether that's an independent survey or, internally, I still don't know if that question should be there. Right. I mean, there's so many, for example, to get over to the benefit, one of the things we wanted to look at, as we talked about in the budget session, is the cost of our benefits is approximately about 50% of our compensation package? Well, we can't continue to carry that load going forward. So the question was, want about all the trade-offs with a flex-benefit package or an HRA, HSA type of approach? I don't see any of those lodging questions in here about, you know, Travis, you're young. Maryanne's a little older. You probably love to have work out. Oh, it's so sweet. It's so smart. But you know what's that whole thing about as you age, you want higher coverage on your benefits. So you might be willing to say, look, plan, give me X number of dollars and decrease my benefits and I'll go more at risk. So I don't see those questions in here. We've tried to kind of get to that with question number 12 and how you rank benefits and the value to you. That didn't help me any terms Okay. In terms of flex. So I mean, basically I would have the opportunity to put salary or compensation above medical benefits, for example. I guess wages and salaries, for example. I mean, there's all kinds of questions around flex-benefit packages. And I don't know who you mean by local. These are local. These local. You used word, the overall compensation package I received is competitively with those offered by other local employees. What's a definition of local? I mean, people in the area is a little raiment for us. We didn't want to be concerned. Like, aspen, carbon, or they work at the hospital or they work for the school or what? That could be subjective to the respondent, but mean the idea is you're not comparing yourself to California or New York or something like that. I mean those are some type of questions. Why not? We have the same problems. You guys just told us how everything happened. We can... These guys did with the transportation. You guys just told us how we're going to be. We can. These guys did win the transportation. Maybe make a footnote there and define local as the valley. Maybe in state. So governmental employees or what? Well, that was like we didn't find that because if you're in a heavy equipment operator, and you can you're driving a heavy piece of heavy equipment you're going to get a different you're the same type of job whether you're working for Google construction okay so we didn't that's why we didn't we didn't do that I probably put some put a qualifier in there some more type of job is yours based on their position So we would ask their skillset. No. I mean, these were questions. So, Mark, you tell me what's the question you want? Well, throughout on page, what is it? Page of 127, 128 is a local, local, local. Right, the medical benefits are received are competitive or better than those offered by other local employers. Right. Who's local? So, if we said in the valley? I assume you may like ski co. I have no idea who you mean. Governmental employees? Well, I guess what we assumed are like I'll say me. What I assumed is you were trying to figure out how competitive we are with the market. The market is as far as someone is willing to drive. And that's what we were trying to, we didn't want to use the market. So we said other local employers, whether that's SkiCo or that's Gould, whether that's the salt. Think down, E, or whatever. Yeah, we purposely were trying to say, do you think we're competitive? I would then do a such ask. So they don't think of comparing my salary to what people make an ass, but we could put a footnote there Defining local I think but well, can I ask I mean don't we want to know if we're competitive with Aspen? We are say such as pick and county Google construction but a steeple Or a hospital or it's something to put the question in context. You're not just asking Would you like to make more money? That was the question because we knew That would come back as, yes. So that's where we're trying to say, do you make enough? Because I wasn't going to say yes to that. But do you think you're competitive? That's how we kind of came up with some of that phrase, theology. As I recall, the intent of this was trying to figure out more about, learn more about what they thought of the benefit package, right? So that's a huge part of it. So we just need to focus more on those types of questions. Yeah. Yeah, it's more about our benefit structure, our pay structure. I mean, I think this came out of a whole discussion about HR, right? Right. Yes. So, anything we can do to help get our arms around, those HR questions, I think would be helpful. And so, I mean, one of the examples you used, Mark, you was to, I mean, HSAs. I mean, would you see a question being, would you like to see the town go to an HSAs? I mean, would you see a question being, would you like to see the town go to an HSA program? Well, they won't know what an HSA, you're going to have to describe what an HSA, what if the town offered an HSA program, which is, blah, blah, blah, blah. So now they've got a context. Now I would ask the question, or an HRA, which is a reimbursement account. So a little bit of things like that might help the employee think about, I'm older, I'm younger. I know what happened within our organization when we started asking those questions and then did something different within our benefit package. It was what I thought it would be. The younger people were willing to pay more for their benefits. Okay. Versus people my age. I'm going to stay away from your age. Yeah, be careful here. I think this is a good start, Travis. I think it's a good start and I think, but I think getting hold of, it's like Billy said, we kind of talked about HR when we started putting this together. So I think getting them all rolling. So specifically, just so I know where we're going and forward, I mean, we want specific questions on HSA's, HR's. This is where I think since we don't have a separate HR department within the town, I would suggest we find an HR affirm that does employee surveys that one of the areas that they're very good at is serving on the benefit programs and compensation benefit programs for the town. And I don't know if what's the name of the company that we use to quote A-O-N? When you would? With A-N is our insurance program, but Eric Marburger, E-H-E-S-M is the one who did the employee survey. And he's also capable, but there are other firms out there. Is he the guy that did the compensation analysis a few years ago with the first years ago? Yeah, that might be a good start. So your goal is to find out, again, this is what I'm just trying to struggle. It's the specifics of the type of benefit package that employees are looking for. Okay, so this is, I think we're kind of getting on this narrowing this down. I think it's important that we understand the relevance of the entire compensation benefits structure within the town of Snowmass Village and number two get a pulse on the climate of working in the town. And the pulse that you want to capture is are you satisfied in your job? And do you feel, and you've got some very good questions on that? Excellent questions. And then keep it simple. And just to be flipping for a second, when you start getting into HSA's, HRA's and those types of things, it's pretty difficult to keep it simple because those are kind of complicated issues to get someone's opinion about. Well, we can do it and we can talk about it. Essentially what you're going to, I mean right now we've got a fantastic healthcare If you felt. Because essentially what you're going to, I mean right now we've got a fantastic healthcare program. There's no doubt about it. And so, and I'm just trying to think about it. If I'm an employee, pick a department, it doesn't matter. And the question is, would I be interested in an agency? I'm just thinking it's a count. Right. And I would assume that the question would be rather than the program that we've got today. The answer is going to, I can only guess, but the answer is going to be. Well, I think what I think the question is, the town only has the qualifiers. The continued increase in escalation of the benefit structure of the town of Stomach and village and throughout the Royal Fort Valley is almost not doable on term. Recognizing that we may have to make some tough choices within our community, would you, if we offered a flex benefit program, within that, how would you rank the benefits that would be important to you? Now, I just need to think about that one a little bit more. As long as we ask the moral questions before that and after that because that's going to come over now. Well, I mean, I think it's reality. I know, but Mark, you deal with this stuff all the time and for someone who doesn't deal with it all the time, it is like I can't even deal with insurance. I just handed to my wife because I hate it so much. Okay, so we know you don't want any now. You want more compensation. But I mean, that's my concern is those kind of things. And that's why, well, and again, I guess I'm just trying to get back to question 12. We tried to make it as simple as possible, so you reaint. You know, what is the most important is? Is it wage or is it health insurance? And it's kind of that, I guess I assumed that was the path we're trying to go. And we added, you know, six or eight more ideas in that. But in my mind, that's kind of the big fundamental question. I thought that you're aiming for is that 12, is like, how do you, what's most important to you and if you're you know I'll just say you know 70 plus Health insurance is gonna be way higher than Someone like me who likes the EAP that was press or still but But you get bit and I guess that this was our shot at that to try and find that prioritization amongst staff And I guess that this was our shot at that to try and find that prioritization amongst staff Because you get to say hey that you know wages are way more important to me than then something else Again, if that's not hitting your need and we can try something again or we can get somebody on the I think it's hitting I think it's hitting the The bat well right there with that question. And I kind of agree, I have no problem dealing with insurance bill, but I know what you're saying. A lot of people really don't want to deal with that kind of stuff. So keeping it simple, if you start throwing in all these SRAs and SHAs, they don't know what that stuff is. And I think this is a simple question. I think this is going to get to- Your health benefits are over 50% of the entire compensation program now. Wow. You've got to go up another, probably health insurance, another 8% to 10% this year. At a minimum, plus you've got a Cadillac tax coming in 19. Like 20. 20. And it's 8%. And you're right. and so my thing is some of the stuff's management questions and and I think that we need to be aware of that The council does we as management does do need to be aware of that, but if you're asking someone's opinion You're gonna I mean it's gonna be hey, let's keep it as it is because it's good and that's where I want to make sure that That's what you're gonna. Okay, so if we want to use that question, okay, I see where you're coming from in the simplicity. Then have them to rank order, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. I mean, that's what. And if you had to give up one, what would you give up? I guess a beat number two. I would assume the same, but we can ask something. And then we could take it from there. There's a ways to back end to flex benefit programs. I think also, you know, a lot of the questions is just on some of them. When you have strongly agreed, agreed, disagreed, strongly disagree, in no opinion, I think having the number system in there might be, you know, to what benefit is this given? You have one through ten, ten being the highest. I like my- You know, the WICAR school? You know, was it? I thought the WIC at school? You know, I was a... Yeah, I don't know, I'm not familiar with the proper term is, but something that's going to be a quicker way for them to say yes. I'm going to give this an 8 out of 10. I'm going to give this a 9 or an obviously this degree is going to be down there by that one or two or the opposite way. So numbering system? Just the drawback to that, just talking to kind of Markies earlier point about the verification. If it comes back as a seven, is that good or bad? And that's not- Maybe we only have to go to one through five. Okay. Because back's a four. What? Just, and again, I'm just trying to make sure you understand what the logic was behind this was, you agree that it's the overall package is competitive or you don't agree. And, you know, if it's a one through five, is a two, you don't, obviously, I guess, two as you don't agree or your ranking system at that point. And that was the logic that we were trying to get to is that qualitative degree or you don't agree rather than a ranking of the system. But if we go to that, when we go to bring somebody on board, they can come up with a number of systems. Yeah, quantitative. Yes. These are the questions. This does assign a numeric value for each answer. But you know there's a difference between what you agree and what I might think is strongly agreed. Absolutely. Yeah. I hope so. Yeah but again this is about the information that you guys want to get back. That's the fundamental thing is what's the information you guys want to get back. I think it's a great start. I mean, I haven't heard. Alyssa, you said you had some other questions. I like it. You know me. I have some grammatical issues. OK, so how about the content? The content, the content, the content, the content. Well, I always have grammatical issues. No, my one thing that I, some of the questions, the way they were worded, I found weird and didn't make a lot of sense to me. But one thing that I felt like was missing which gets back to the whole HR point was just, I mean, I don't know how you word these types of questions, but just, you know, do the appropriate channels exist for voicing concerns, issues, things like that. I mean, I think that was one of the original things that we had come up with, and I didn't really see that in here. Oh, you're talking about is the employee advocate? Where do we go with concerns? Right, and like, do you feel like that presence is safe here and safe and that you can voice concerns or share issues or whatever it is? I mean, I feel like that was part of our decision of, do we want to have this HR person? Well, if it comes back and it shows that there's a lot of need and people are uncomfortable with the process as it exists, then we know that maybe we do need to go to that. So the first question, do they know what the process is? Right. Well, that was the other thing I have in here. Do you know what? Is there a process in place? Do you understand how that process works? Do you feel comfortable with it as it exists? You know, I'm... And you trust that this is confidential. And not in that wording, because that's not great wording, but just in general, along those lines. I felt like that was one of the things that was really missing for me. And then my other thing which came up before was just like, I didn't like that only if you put strongly agree, did you then get to like put additional comments. I mean, anyone disagrees? You should hear from that. I mean, it shouldn't just be strongly disagreeing. And we actually went back and forth on that. I just didn't want to inundate people with all those comments. But they don't have to write anything, right? True. So choice, this is their survey. But it almost disincentivizes you to disagree. If they're going to disagree, they're going to disagree. True. But I mean, if you don't have to answer it to get to the next one, I mean, maybe some people will elaborate and some people won't. But I just think that if anyone's disagreeing about any one of those points, then I feel like you really need to explore why. Whether they want to share it or not is a whole different story. There was something else I had to, but I'm going to the number. I think it was number 54, the question 54 when you're talking about teamwork and collaboration. One of the things that I felt like was missing was maybe something about having adequate time to retreat in goal setting. And is that built in? Because it asks you about how do you feel like your team is great and do you feel like you're being rewarded and you're learning. But more of like, do you feel like you have the adequate amount of time to set goals and how we did with our retreat sort of system? That was one of the things that I had written down there. And we can discuss the grammatical things later. Okay, anything else, sir? Melissa? Hold on. Um... No. What is that? Okay, so I would suggest we would look for an outside kind of the HR type of a person if we can find someone to help us with the survey and then incorporate many of these questions but with an emphasis on I think we should look to see how much it's going to cost first I don't know for $3,000 I think you get what you pay for I don't know what $3,000 is going to give us I don't know that number I guess I'm just telling you MSCC does them for 3,000. We'd probably go belong to MSCC, the employers council. I know the community survey was around 15,000. So that would be my fall part, yes. Well, I don't know if that's well. Anyway, I would suggest looking and doing research. Yeah, but I just take the three and I'm going to add a couple just for giggles with a $5,000 expense, be worth a while. Yes. We were talking about. I'm not asking you guys. I need you guys to say yes. How many millions of dollars invested are employees? Lots. Lots. Lots. And we need to maximize on getting the best results because we want our employees to find this a wonderful place to work with good benefits and very open, trusting environment. So to me, it's worth 5,000. It could be even worth 10,000 at the end of the day. It's all about really getting the best data. So we, sitting up here, can make the best decisions, particularly as we're getting ready to go into another tough budget. So if you want to get across, that's great. I'm okay with that. I mean, I agree with regards to I'm the one that's been doing the backstage tours and what I've seen this year. I think we have it's pretty incredible. I'm pretty incredible. The quality of the person we have that work for the town and I think they have a good package. And although they're not going to come complain to me but from what I've seen it that's some pretty happy people working for the town. It's great to validate it. Continue to continue to take care of them is is great is it big is a big deal. So so how do you understand what you want coming forward? You want to get somebody on board? Well, see what the cost would be. So assuming you get somebody, I mean, you said 10. You know, assuming you get somebody less than that, then what would you like to see happen? A new draft, the next draft of the survey, with the emphasis on benefits and HR issues. More emphasis on that. I think that's what we all kind of agree to. Yeah. I think that was one of the reason why we wanted to do this. Yeah. My name is Serge Smith. And then so we kind of harken back to the discussion a couple hours ago. You guys are around. Is it a group a whole lot? I mean, when do you want to get it back and do we want to have all five of you buy it off or we just bring it back when we get four of you? And four is fine. And I think we'll be on the press. Because we can read it in the email you. Yeah. It changes or comments. So we'll get somebody on board. We'll bring another draft back for you for further conversation, basically the direction at this point. With the additional emphasis being on benefits, on benefits really, because you said you were comfortable with the management type of questions in there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking forward to see what the firm says about the survey. And most good firms already have surveys already developed. They just kind of retrofit. They've already done a lot of validation on all the questions. So the whole issue of inter. He's already there. Is that clear? There's mudder. I'm getting a buzz and I'll help you with this. Thank you. That's your job. OK. Where did I put my agenda? What's the next thing on there? Town reports? Yep. Now letated 30 minutes to summarize everything. Between Raffer and Corps, I was at the Raffer meeting on Thursday and I was really in eye opening. I'll start with that. First of all, let me say that, and I already told Marky that it stays to the chairperson. This young lady is just fabulous. She did a fabulous job. She's a higher-tait ship. Yes, she does. Mayors have carried it. She's got a hold of that board and she runs a great operation there. I think coming out of the raft aboard, there was an executive session. I won't talk much about it since we were on TV. But one of the main things there was basically keeping the easement of, see, eighth street open. And that Y section, that's up to them. Okay, and some of the big issues with Rathur was number one was Garfield County's mine in regards to how much they're participating. And John, which was his last meeting. Okay, basically through it right out there and wants to cut Garfield County off. No, I know how much he's a council person in Carman down there. And Steve from Aspen, Mayor, Steve came out and wanted to make himself clear and said, did I understand you correctly? This is going to be your final thing that you want and he said yes. And then another big issue was going to be possible. They're going to put back it to the board. The maroon bells fair increase and paid parking. No. The raft that does the parking. No, ski company does. The raft that will get, maybe possibly a dollar on, for everybody that comes or something. So, if the raft is a little bit more expensive, then it's not going to be a little bit more expensive. So, the raft that is going to be a little bit more expensive, then it's going to be a dollar on for everybody to come. So there's some issues being worked out there and they don't even know if they can get that on this year's since June's coming up pretty quickly. A couple of other items you probably read in the paper about. Today's core meeting was a lot to say about the energy competition going on right now and asking with all the other towns going on and some of the net zero homes projects that are going on and how you could get your home rated accordingly. And I have to put my notes together on that night. I could actually save that because I have a little research to do. And some of the other issues that were on the course table was getting the rest of the people in the valley to adopt the 2015 Energy Coats. Snowmass has. Aspen has not got on board yet, but they hope to be on by the summer. Carbondell and Basalt do also as well as the lemon and how far does Coral want to go? Do they want to go as far as 82? Or some people talked about going down towards parachute with it and going over the chips and then ego. And it comes, you know, there are some similarities between this and the meeting at Rath or in regards to where the money is coming from in Garfield County. This doesn't seem to be producing in either direction of the two-board glider to use it. What do you guys? I'll pass it on, Bill. I don't have anything. I have the letter from Peter Colchnag. So I think you guys got. Bob and I both would like to encourage the council to sign on to the BLM's proposal, which actually Colorado and Wyoming have already adopted, but it would like to be adopted nationwide and on tribal lands as well so that we have an opportunity to regulate methane gas. Are y'all supported that? Yeah, yeah, okay. So we have the letter. Do you have the draft from Bob? No Okay, Ron has got a copy and What's the best way to go about that Ron? Do you want to just? Perfect Thank you for your support. I have nothing. Okay. Hopefully you don't have any other reports to have a motion for adjournment. Before we... On the letter, are all five of you going to sign it? Or it's going to be from the town council? Let's just go from the town council to unanimous. Is that okay with you guys? Yes. Can you just make a quick motion and say, you know, that you want to support this? I would like to make a motion to support, what do we call this? Official letter to the BLM for methane and gas, flaring and waste rule. A second, the motion. All in support. Hi. All same sign. Hey. Okay, do I have a motion. Oh, support. Aye. Oh, same sign. Aye. Okay. Do I have a motion for adjourned? I motion to adjourn this meeting. Second. I'll support. Aye. Aye. Thank you. Thank you. Do you want me to sign some stuff. Thank you.