I mean that's the stuff that we're going to be in about a year ago. To be able to put the birds in the water, you're allowed for that. That was a purpose for this to come on. And they made the opening of the water you want to put. I'm going to give you some of this today. I'm going to try and explain this. And that's what I'm going to do. I'm just going to move off. I just hope that I'm just so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I'm so I already have it. I already have it. You can see it here. The bean. I have it. I have it. I have it. I have it. I have it. I have it. I have it. I have it. I have it. I have it. I have it. I have it. I have it. I have it. I have it. I have it. I'm fine. You got it sick? What? Are you sick? Well, maxi-ranversus. Keep it. Two of these open for you. Oh, okay. Best heavy air. We'll just do it this way. Yeah. So you got this is the MLK. This is the AXMIS. There's two different natural programs. Hi there. I'm OK. Christmas. As you can put like that. After my thoughts is meeting, I went up about 5'11 to the point of view. I just stopped because it's not. It's still on the fast speed. Not with the support. And are the both on the fast speed. Not with the fast. And our new boat on the fast. Are you two fast? Well, you hope. Oh, yeah. So you can just reduce some of that. And then I just do the air button to explain the very first thing on Sunday. I said, you know what? Slow down. I got it. And look at my driver's license. See how long. He's fast. We can see it. the I said I mean For time good M.O.K. was Morning was 4 o'clock and so I think it's 6th and now we're going to see what's up. This one right here, there go. This one here. So this, either that one. This one is... Oh, it's in that. You can touch it. Yeah. So there's actually two. You don't even have to close or change a mirror or anything. Just a few days later. Yeah, yeah. She's not quite old skater. Maybe we should, maybe we should, like us in our mission, but here. Just a little bit of a guess of the chemo. Uh, uh, uh. Oh. Please, please. Yeah, I was wondering if it's... Oh, you know, he's probably out there. He's probably out there. I was just... Don't you think? He's out there. He's got something Do you want to show papers of a new paper camera? I'm sorry. She's no drop too high. Now it's too late. I realized that I was dealing with it. Right here. Oh, but I feel good. What do I have to do to make that happen? No, you're not going to get it. You don't want to try to move it around too much because it's on. It's okay. Yeah. No, I said I've been trying to move it. There he is. No, I said I've been jarring. You mean better. Yeah. There he is. Yeah, I thought I saw you walk you out. It was a little bit, but you know, if you do a little bit, it's just not. And that wasn't you going over the jump. That was your son, right? Yeah. I tried to pull it in and sure that it's dad For the third time in a row I quit please do not put my name on any correspondence We want to do these pretty Really cute Well, you could detect some other topic. Uh, when I saw you, you were doing some sort of bossing stuff. I know it was a bomb. I don't know if I ever got a bomb. I think you could learn it. I'm going to go there for a little bit. It seems to be a little bit. Yeah, so this is a good place to get stuck. Yeah, so if you hit this one, if I was a boss, I would just switch. Yeah, so if you hit this one, if I was, oh, yeah, I said that. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, And then they got. Because the cameras doesn't. It's like we're. So you see me without the. She's good. She's. She's. She's. The first guy in It really opens only from my habit the thing is I Want to get it was pretty good Is this scary like This is what they're getting We're getting there's a few so I'll better than someone's are. Yeah. Right. They got snow. They got snow this year. They were working so now they're getting more cold. And that's all of the math. That's too. We ready? Yeah. Yeah. It's off of warm outside. It's like 50 degrees and grand time. And while we're in the middle of it, we will have it. Two parcels. Brenda, how are we doing over here? Waiting on you boss. Oh, whoa! Whoa! Oh, no. No problem. But otherwise I'm fine. Well, this is good. I'm glad you're fine. I'm waiting for the signal. Oh, the signal. That's... I have to get my signal. Amy. Any minute. I think we're about ready to go. Okay, good afternoon all. It's January the 17th, 2017. My hell-time fly is already 4 o'clock on a beautiful beautiful Tuesday afternoon, and I hope everyone enjoyed the snow and the great conditions that we've been having up there on the mountain Sure has been nice. So with that said Rhonda would you do roll call? Here That's it. Here. Here. Good. Here. Okay. The first item on the agenda is proclamations. One thing I did not acknowledge two weeks ago was the loss of Bob Throm who has been in our valley for years and years and years. And let's just all keep Phyllis and the family in our privacy. He's sure made his mark on snowmass and then I'm gonna move into any other proclamations. No okay. Public comment do I have anyone? MZVZ. Yes ma'am thank you kindly ma'am. Be quick. Some other things to do? Yes, ma'am. Thank you kindly, ma'am. Be quick. Have some other things to do. Help someone else who's trying to help out your community. Anyway, Monomic Lake is MZV's the third. I have several items. I believe they're five. The first one is about the fire guys, the fire boys. It's non-negotiable in terms of where they'll be at and what they need to do. So stop picking at them. Remember without them what do you have? You have emergencies. All right so it's non-negotiable. The next thing, picking county library, how can you let them treat you? Like third class or fourth class citizens, you're supposed to have a building. That money should have been for you here. Why should you drive nine or more miles? I actually is five and then it's nine, so it's 14. Why should you drive that far for books or whatever else? Services. It's called selfishness. Let's break that habit. Get them to raise money, build a building here. Next, Councilman Circus, he's one of the good guys, like Clint over there. He's at the gym, he's working out. Well, I would like to reward him. And this would be the reward. A special event like you've never had before. All right, coming out of Beverly Hills. I'm speaking through the chair. Madam Chair, if you would allow him and if he would be willing to create an ad hoc committee to get Robert Tannenbaum here. Robert Tannenbaum, all right, is a great author here in America. I can guarantee that every library branch in America has one of his many books. It was like 20, 30 or more books. Also, he used to be mayor and councilman of Beverly Hills. Also he was a New York DA. Now with a man like that you can get a decent crowd in here. Lawyers, rich people, people who read books or whatever else. I'm asking if you can and if Mr. Circus is willing to, I mean he does a gem thing for him to see about getting Robert Tannabom here and I can tell you he can use my name because Bob Tannabom knows me. He became, he got on the count on 1986, all right in Beverly Hills. That's when he did it. All right, going along very quickly. You know, everyone or most of you have heard of the LeBrayer Tar Pits, having you. All right, it's over the museum row, or wills you a boulevard, right next to the lost answer to this county museum. It has a lot of good things, even Eli Brode gave place a lot of things too, right? Multi-billionaire. Now, you have the equivalents. You really do. You have a LeBré tar pit here. What I'm suggesting that you do is some of copy LA. Of course, you can't be the same, but at the same time, as you're dealing with the mammoths, and I just call them elephants. What happens? A museum that would also include art. Wouldn't that replicate the Lebray Tarbets and the Los Angeles County Museum, and I can guarantee you people will come? All right, now the last thing, and yesterday was a nice day for me. Boy, it really was. There's a man who reintroduced himself to me. And he said his name was John. So I said, well, what is your last name? He said, Hornblower. So I thought of Horatio Hornblower. But when I was exercising yesterday, all suddenly hit me. I said, wait a minute. At one time for a while, you worked at hornblower in weeks So I looked for the guy didn't see him and eventually I saw him he was walking I said well Well, I'd be able to catch him before he he walks out fate had it He was still standing there waiting for me. He didn't realize it. I said hey John One time for while I worked at Home Blowing Weeks in Wall Street. My grandfather, he said, you know, created the company. And he was surprised. He found somebody had been there. And we talked for a while. Well, look, just before this meeting started, I looked up, you know, John's background a little bit I believe it would be he would be a great asset for your community when it comes to small businesses small business capital formation and everything else all right and hey horn blowering weeks I mean I had to go through bomb scares working at that place on Wall Street. We poured out and they have a very rare and you know signed off outside you know but he would be a great asset to work with. And I mean hey United States Securities and Exchange Commission has a small business capital formation meeting every year. They had done it in different ways. It's in DC now. You get hooked up with that. You can have him represent you there. You're pulling the money. Look, thank you very much for your time. As Ben Franklin said, time is money and hopefully Mr. Circus you'll follow through on Robert Tannenbaum. What am I going to ask him to do? You're going to ask him to come here and speak, sir. Give a lecture, and also he can present all his books at the same time. Yes, sir. Hey, look, you hook up with him. You have other people coming in here. Thank you very much. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. OK. Moving on. Thank you. I'm see, Veezy. Any other comments? easy. Any other comments? Having done, let's move on. Draft agendas in work session. This is consent agenda. And then resolution number six series of 2017. Dave, this is you. This is associated with applications for the Federal Transit Administration, operating administration of the United States Department of Transportation for Federal Transportation Assistance. Authorized for 49 USC Chapter 53 Title 23, United States Code and other federal statues administered by the FTA. And that's a balsamble that lawyers like to put together. Is there anything pertinent to this resolution that we need to pass, Dave? That- No, this is the certs and assurances. There are sub-pendix to the master agreement. We are technically a subrecipient of Colorado Department of Transportation. So we are not a direct recipient of these federal funds, but it is imperative that we comply with the SIRTS and Assurances that are relative to our grant programs. that are relative to our grant programs. Thank you, Dave. Is there any questions for Dave or any item on the agenda? The work's finished. Dave, I have a question on the financial impact. It talked about, let's see, routes eight and three, correct? Correct. Why just those routes? We It's a state requirement that the grant does not replace local dollars So we applied for this grant When we were expanding route 3 service. We used to try and run 15 minutes service with two buses on 30 minute headways. It became such that with the expansion into two creeks and so forth and traffic volumes that we couldn't cover that route in 30 minutes. So we were expanding to three buses on 45 minute headways. So, or 45 minute loops to preserve the 15 minute headways for the route. And at the same time, we started adding route 8 service to the community to serve the rec center. So at about this time we applied for the grant as these were operating grant supports 12 hours of route three service, winter and summer, 11 hours in the spring and the fall. And then route eight, we apply 12 hours to the winter and summer and then three hours of demand responsive service for some of the lower hanging fruit, if you will, from Sinclair Road up on Route 8. And that's what makes up the grant we quest, and we've had that in place for a number of years now. Okay. Thank you. Another question? There's rafts of qualify for these grants as well. Yeah, raft of pride brings in a million plus in this 5311 grant. Yeah, and when we get into ELTC tomorrow night and we talked about last Thursday, do we have any idea what's gonna, how transportation's going to be impacted with the change to Republican administration and what you're hearing. I know the Tiger grants are probably pretty well gone. Obviously, I'm not sure that we have a lot of support for alternative modes of transportation. Everyone is pretty concerned that the federal allotment for transit in specifically may be diminished or go away, but we're going to try and stay up optimistic. There are a lot of people on the conservative side of the aisle that do see a value of transit services and alternatives. They do make the connection that walking is a more sustainable thing, biking is more sustainable than cars, and transit has a place in the transportation system. So I don't want to be gloom and doom, but it's highly likely that these funds will get more competitive as time goes on Thank you David any other thing that anyone wants to bring up Work sessions or whatever. Yeah, I'd like to just give you a heads up on The 19th you have that your EOTC meeting. I did put that on I legislate for you today Of course, it just pack it only. There won't be filmed on there because it's not here. And that meeting's been postponed till 4.30. Okay. And then on February 6th, I'm going to have 10 resolutions of appreciation. And I see that Councilmember Good is out. And I was just wondering if I can go ahead and insert the mayor and Bob Circus to make the motion and second on those resolutions. Yes. Thank you. I'm fine with it. I hope everybody else is all good. Okay. All I have. Thank you. Okay. We have a motion on the table. Do I have a second? All in support? Who? Aye. I. Same sign. Let's move on into public hearing. And this is resolution number 35, series of 2016. This gets into the town's findings and factor conclusions regarding the annexation of lot two. Second amendment to plat of the Gentry, lot split subdivision into the town of Snowmass Village by Lois B Pope. Revocable trust dated March 29th 2007 John. Thank you Madam Mayor. If you wait this is a continued public hearing. It was continued from December 5th of 2016 and if you want to open the public hearing. Okay. That would be great. At this time I'll open the public hearing. This is a continuation of the session we had on December 5th of 2016. Madam Mayor, where we are in council, where we are on this annexation petition is that the council is now making findings effect, which you've actually already done and your finding is the petition compliant with the statutory requirements to consider an annexation. And once you make those findings you then make a conclusion of law and that conclusion of law is that it is a parcel that is eligible to be annexed by ordinance. It does not require an election. And that is the purpose of this resolution tonight. So staff is recommending that this resolution go forward. As you know from the public comments you've heard so far in the public hearing and probably will hear tonight as I see that Mr. Levinson is here, his letter, he asked that that be placed in the packet again tonight. The issues raised in that and by the county's letter at our last meeting are really not dealing with getting to the predicate question of is this property eligible for the annex does it comply with the state statute? Yes, it does. And is it annexed by ordinance or by election? You're coming to the conclusion that it is by election because the property is 100% on all the land owners have consented to it. The issue is being raised by the county and by the neighbors to the south. A really matters that are going to be dealt with subsidively in the next two processes that you go through as we go through this annexation. One of those is an annexation ordinance. That won't be adopted until after it's gone through a land use application process. That process can't start until you've made this conclusion of law, the findings and conclusion of law today. So that's where we are in the process. I know you've all read Mr. Levinson's letter. He has asked that it be placed again here today. He wasn't able to be with us for the continued public hearing in November and December. I see him here today. I'm sure that he has comments. But his comments are valid and you'll accept those at any time. I'm going to ask him to recent his letter when we get to the land use process because his letter about the road agreement and the maintenance and the use of that road are really land use things they don't apply to is this property eligible for annexation and how will it be annexed. That's what you're to decide tonight. I also see in the audience the attorney for the Pope Trust. Steve Connors here he may have some comments as well in the public hearing. So that's your predicate introduction to hopefully wrap up this public hearing tonight and act on the resolution number 35. Steve did you want to come forward and make any comments? Mr. Levinton I's all that your hand went up as well. Okay, thank you very much. You want to step forward to the come to the mic? Introduce your- We have a problem, obviously, and as John has just said, maybe I have to do it during the land use process. But let me just tell you our concern. Our concern is that with, we had, when we originally, the property was put together, it was a dirt road. We then subsequently decided to make it a chip and seal road. And these heavy equipment that would be brought in, all the cement trucks are going to rip up the road. And our concern is that we will then, we have a choice of going to the courts and fighting it out, but it's one of these, he said, she said type of things. And I'd like to avoid, he said, she said, because I've gone through this once before with a former neighbor and he said, it wasn't my problem, it was their problem, they were cars. And our concern is that it could cost us a considerable amount of money. So it becomes a win as I see it for snowmage village. You'll collect roughly a half a million dollars. It's a win for Mrs. Pope. It'll help her sell the house. But the other five landowners will get a major expense. I might also add that you may not be aware, and I didn't put in the letter. But part of the road that we're talking about is actually... What's the name of the road? The private road, so-called private road. Part of the road is actually owned by Snowmass Village. And it's one of the steepest points on the road. And from what I can see is that if there's going to be a problem, it's going to be on the steep parts when the cement trucks go down to low gear and rip up the road. So not only do we have a concern, but I would hope that Snowmass Village has a concern. My letter, I think, spells out that what we're looking for is a win-win-win and not a win for two parties, and the other five parties on the road have an expense. Okay, and you understand you may have to come back and talk to us again on the land use Well, I don't know when that's going to be I'll be with her public notice. It's a whole new process. This is just the My problem is I'm the only one who lives I'm I'm a owner on that road that lives here and this is my home right I also happen to live five months of the year, some place else, but I live seven months. So I'm sort of, the other people come and go, you know, over a couple of weeks a year. And I would hope that I'd have some opportunity to express myself and tell you what the story is. And I do have a suggestion which I'd like to sort of leave with you so that when the time does come that we go through that application. I would hope that maybe some place along the line for win-win-win for all the parties would be that $50,000 be put up in escrow by the future owner of the property because Mrs. Folk is not going to build. She's up to sell the property. That's one thing. And that maybe once a week, a construction engineer from the town, at least examine the road, so that we don't have to go through one of these things of going to court and saying, yes, they damaged the road and the other party saying no they didn't and how do we prove it. We need something at least gives us an opportunity to have an answer if we have to go if we have to go to court. Markey thank you very much. I have a quick question. For those that are listening on TV or looking at their computer or just plain listening, can you tell us, John, or you know more about the road than anybody else? Can you, is it the one that goes up, Sen Claire? It's a road that, as you go to the Ziegler property, it splits. Yeah. And it goes. One of the road that goes to the left is the regular property. The one that goes to the right is our property. Okay, got it. Is that all clear? I was all confused. It's also the road you see when you go up to the Yin Yang. You see a road right below you. If you walk down that road, that's the road I believe. On private property? Yeah. It's actually in the believe. On private property? Yeah. Yeah. It's actually in the county. It's in the county, OK? It's in the county. OK. Except the pot that's owned by Snowmass Village. OK. Got it. Thank you very much for the clarification. Thanks, Ellen. Somehow I would hope that I'm here during the summer and the winter. And I would hope that we don't schedule But I can't I know you can't promise me that but I I at least leave you with the thinking thinking here Is that we're looking for a win-win-win and not a win-win loss? That's very very helpful in your suggestion and your thought Around what that might look like is very very helpful to us. I'd be happy to write another letter to Clint if that would help also. Thank you so very much. Is there any questions? Do I have a motion for approval? I have one. I guess I have one comment which appears to me to be a typo. This is usually a list's position here but I'm taking over tonight. I'm taking over tonight. I'm taking over tonight. On page 69 of the 120 in the packet, item number 69. Wait a minute. Would you say 69? Yeah, 69 of 120. Or 13 of the 26. Okay. You have me all confused. I don't know which way people can see. Okay. Item number nine starts off within 2016. Is that date correct or should that be 2013 that the town annexed? No, that was completed in 26th. Okay. I think I just read it. I read it differently, but that's fine. Thank you. Thank you very much. Any other comments? Elicit, did you have any? Correct. No. I have it for a later discussion of something else. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So do I have a motion for approval? Make a motion approve resolution 35 series 2016. Okay. Thank you. Do I have a second? Second. Thank you. This is a resolution that an ordinance. Okay so we have a motion and we have a second all in support. I know. Same sign. Okay. Thank you very much for coming over to visit us this afternoon and you're welcome to stay because it only gets more interesting. Okay. Next item is Julie Ann Woods and this is first reading of Ornitz number three series of 2017. Recommending amendments to chapter 16 aid land use and development codes section 16 a 5 to 50 administrative modifications of the snowmess village municipal code to correct in congruenties and Cautification resulting from the adoption of ordinance number four series of 2013 in ordinance number six Series of 2015. They have Julianna Chase I thoroughly enjoyed reading this. I'm sure you did And I'm gonna turn it over to Chase. So he can explain to you. But let me just say it's just one of those things that needs to be fixed. Madam Mayor. Madam Mayor, Councilor, thank you. Exactly. This is a text amendment to clarify a clerical era that happened after two consecutive code amendments. The most informative piece of paper in this packet would probably be the last ones of has the strikes and inclusions from each of the amendments from 2013 and 2015. Essentially what happened was in 2015, the amendment reinstated the red lines that were adopted in 2013. So this amendment basically cleans up the two and puts everything as was intended. No content is being changed in this is strictly clerical. Okay. Is there any new wording in this? No wording. No new wording. Not that hasn't already been improved. Okay, so what I took away from this was that there were changes made in 2013 that were implemented and put into the code in 2013. Then in 2015, instead of carrying through those changes from 2013, somehow the code prior to 2013 was the one that was picked up, the wording was picked up from prior to 2013, and that was the wording that was used in 2015, and now we're just going back to the 2013 wording. Exactly. And the 2015. And the 2015. So both the amendments are there. Oh, I see. There was, there were additional amendments in 2015. Right. And those additional amendments got batched in with the old. You had that part. Prior to. Prior to 2013. Okay. This is really interesting. If we didn't have these, it would all be fine. Well, I hate to say this last night as I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to I have motion for approval so moved do I have a second second? Thank you Bill. All in support any other questions? No, okay ready for the vote all in support say aye I'm signed So this is an ordinance. Yeah, we had first reading of everything one jump has first reading you'll see it again. Yeah So next one is Rhoco, right? Second reading. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for all that brain drain. That was fun. That was a most fun thing you've done. Julie, you really have to pass it over to him. Thank you, Chase. Thank you, Julian. Okay, next we have Andy. Andy, come on up. Good to see you. Good evening. First reading of ordinance number one series of 2017, Norton is establishing the poster, parks, open space trails, and rec advisory board, as specifically its duties. Okay. You want to go ahead, Andy? Tell us what this is all about. Thank you. So little flashback to when I was here talking about poster planning. One of the recommendation was to form a poster advisory board. As you know, the town has had a poster advisory board. As you know, the town has had the trails advisory board for quite a while and we said that we would come back together as a larger group, this kind of takes care of that, incorporating the trails side with recreation, open space and the trails and the parks can't leave that out. So basically this is the formation of the parks open space trails and recreation advisory board. Okay. I'm trying to read my writing. And how many people are on the current trails board? There's quite a few. It's not a formally established advisory board. It has for years been an ad hoc trails committee with a revolving cast of characters. It has never been formal. There have never been minutes. Occasionally they would appoint a spokesman to come and speak to council. But this is not one of the boards that you will find in this book. And this ordinance is establishing such a board to put in this book and formalize that. I had a question or just a comment. It would appear to me, this is me. The poster program is primarily associated with the recreation opportunities here in Snowmass Village. It began to suggest to me as I read it that we need to be very careful to focus on snowmass village residents. And not all from Aspen, Carbondere, what have you. I didn't see that kind of language within what you're proposing. That's your poster document. And that poster document. But I didn't see it in here. So. But I asked you that yesterday and you said that it's because it's advisory board. Is that what you're saying? That they have to be. Oh, sorry. I'm just saying the document talks about the poster document. The question I thought I was answering was it focuses on, hey, if it's good for the residents, it's good for everybody. So that's how the prioritization happened. If you're asking, I think the question Alyssa asked me yesterday was, this is an advisory board, if you don't actually have to live in the village to serve on the board. The commission you have to live in the village advisory board you don't. And so that was the question you asked me yesterday. But how are we going to ensure that this advisory group is primarily snowman's village residents? I mean, that's the beauty of the appointments. I mean, you guys get to make sure that it's representing who you want and you get to a point every year to new members. Do you need to be a full-time resident? We purposely left a vague. I'm sure that you guys, when you're going to the applications, can appoint who use that or best qualified? When they live in the village or not, when they represent businesses or not, but at the full time or the part time, you guys can look at the makeup, the board, and then all the applications. We didn't want to tie your hands with a lot of specifics. I mean, I wondered whether having a board limited to seven members was particularly small given the fact that there's an intent to get people who represent the four or five different portions of recreation. So I throw that out on the table. I mean, Andy, what's your thought about that? Because you've got parks, open space, trails, recreation. You got four different subject areas, if you will. Actually, a conversation that Clinton I had, I was actually pushing for five, because I was thinking the same thing thing if I get in five it's gonna cover all of the you know all of the the You don't want to do that and that's what yeah Both of these gentlemen talked me out of saying if you have seven then obviously you have a quorum most of the time and you I was gonna go higher and look with seven I mean you can always have anybody can attend the meeting, of course, and provide input. The idea, I think, was there's going to be some competing interests. And if you have too many people and you just have one trails person and one horse person and one running person and one, then you get a lot of individual opinions provided. Whereas if you're limited to the seven, hopefully there's going to be some people that are, you know, cross, that are, have multiple interests and can kind of find those balance points that a committee needs. I mean, it's up to you. The other thing was we've had a hard time filling these. I mean, we've got an another agency's. I don't think so, so that would be hard. Well, and it's just, that was the number. There's no magic to it beyond. We thought it was a reasonable number. It was in, it was close to what the other boards and commissions have. It's a number that works. You guys do it with five. You deal with broader issues than just parks, open space, recreation, trails. So that's where the seven came from. I can see a lot of conflict within this group. The very first one that's going to make two issues. One would be the notion of mountain biking versus hiking which was hot, hot, hot this summer. Yeah. Because I know summer. I'd also like to see the question people be represented. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Joe. Just as an example, and this goes to the comment that Clint made, the power of the appointment is obviously resides in the council. In the way this is staggered, you'd be appointing people every three years, different people. If you wanted, you could model it on the art sport and the art sport language provides for no less than five and up to 15 members. And obviously you would decide that by the appointment process. So I will say historically the trails committee, I think Bill, you were on that for a while. Membership would swell and shrink and swell and shrink. So I didn't have any discussions with these guys. They picked that number and I don't have any problem with it. I'm just presenting it alternative to what you're saying. I think you'll have a lot of traction for the first year of the appointments. And then like many things they taper off in terms of sexiness. I like the SOB approach 5 to 15 and then from within that we can identify, we have a lot more flexibility sitting up here. I don't think we should go below 7 I think there's too many competing interests. That's fine. Seven at a minimum and 15 max. I think you're wind up with 11. Yeah, that's good, which is a good number. Yeah, we could get two to two. Is the idea handy to dissolve the trails committee or to have them play a role attend meetings supply? You know, I would hope that, you know, the people that obviously that you appoint to those positions, they would be those speakers of the trails committee now and just combine that with the larger plan. Now there may be times where, you you know there are meetings of just trails and just recreation you know and those will be the people and the voices that we'll hear from those sides but bringing everybody together in one group to talk recreation globally instead of just focusing on trails or just focusing on parks. That's kind of how I see it. To that extent Andy do you anticipate having like these smaller groups that are more focused on one part of post-rhythm and another? Well, I think it all depends on what issues are coming up. You know, if it's a hot topic, let's say like the mountain biking hiking, mountain biking hiking equestrian trail use, or trail etiquette. I mean, that's basically what we're talking about. It would be good to have a small group but then it would also be good to have that broader look at it so everyone can give you know an opinion that that somebody on the on the ground may not be thinking of so it all depends on what the topic is. If somebody's talking about yoga classes, it may not be, you know, a big 11 people group, it may be three. And you gotta remember fundamentally, this board, as proposed by the code and the ordinance, is advisory to you all. It's to, you know, to give advice to you guys. And so if you think more is better, then great, it's not a problem. And it's not an advisory board to staff. We of course staff it and work through it and bring ideas and whatnot to it. But ultimately, it's job is just like any other board of commission to make recommendations to you all and how something should proceed forward or not. And pursuant to our charter, the board itself would have the ability to create subcommittee. Okay, that's why it's going to answer you. If there were three people passionate about yoga classes, they could come up with something to bring to the whole Board to decide if it's a recommendation to the council who makes the ultimate decision. But that's their procedure. They decide that unless you prescribe it in the ordinance. There's another question that came up in my mind last night thinking about it. The entire post-of-play-in was, they had a pretty big number. And then I start thinking about community dollars and only so much available to spend. To what extent would this group be advising us on the financial issues and prioritization? Or would a recommendation go from poster committee into the FAB in terms of what's relationship that you've thought through of the two or. I mean it's both these guys are going to be advocates for all the things in the parks open space trails recreation plan they're going to have to prioritize those projects trails over parks over parks, over recreation, over open space, or in whatever order that is. And so when they prioritize, they all do that. And then when we prepare the budget, Mary and I have a number that we can generally plug into the capital. And then what the FAB does is look at the structure of the industry first, is are we putting too much in the capital or not, and then they can, you know, of course, weigh in on the prioritization within that capital. But I think specifically to answer your question, these guys, this board would be weigh in heavily on the prioritization of those poster type projects. The only other thing I thought about was to ensure that we had an advisory board that represented the constituency in terms of age and demographics and diversity. So that's a criteria for appointment. I don't think that's something that you would really want to codify. I think that's something that is going to be in the discretion of the council each and every time they make appointments, they'll need to look at the makeup and decide what needs to happen going forth. Because- Well said, holy issue around equal rights. We purpose didn't put those in here because sometimes you might have a hot shot applicant that doesn't meet Whatever the criteria is it's lacking and so we didn't want to tie your hands We thought was that if we kept it open every time you go through the application process You can make that assessment without having to be required To a point or not appoint somebody. Okay. That was the logic So no less than seven up to 15 The listening comments. Yeah, I mean I have other comments in other areas. Okay, that I'm happy to discuss it any Let's let's lay it on the number 715 and definitely no more than 15 We're gonna have too many too many opinions at that point and I think everybody's just gonna go around and round That's a convention. Right. Okay. Do we want to limit it? I mean, we want to go seven to 13? I'm just thinking along seven or 11, it seems that you know, strike a good court right there. I think I heard that expression before, you know? The hard nights be. Hard nights. I almost think the 15 is too much. But understand, you never have to fill that number. Right. You're giving yourself parameters. Yes. And if you think you're working group out of the people that are going to stay on and the people that are going to be appointed, you have those parameters and you can do what make what you think is going to most efficiently address work that has to do with an advisory board. Do they need a quorum? Yes. OK. So Andy seems to have come in with a posse many times. Doesn't seem like he's going to have a problem fill in those positions. It's a very popular and sexy subject recreation in the community. I haven't been called sexy that many times in my two days. You've got 20 minutes. I know Clint would like that expression. People would drop off. There would be a good group that would want to participate. I think it's great. No, fingers crossed. And I think we can kind of think about several people in our mind right now. I hope that happens. And I think whatever number you guys fall on, that's from the quorum perspective. It's just it's the quorum based on the number of people on the board. On the board. So if they're only seven, it's four. If you left nine or five, the quorum changes. Yep. I'm fine with up to 15, 7 to 15. There's still like 7, 11. You're a gambler. You're a gambler. Oh, you're hard-knight for nothing. This is the hardest decision we've had to make tonight. OK. Phil, you find with 7 to 15. That's fine. I mean, as long as we feel like 15 is not going to become two wheelies or wheel. It depends on your facilitator, right? Well, if you do, you make the case at the appointment time. I think, you know, I think this is too many for what's on the agenda for the next year. And so you only apply a point 11 or 13 or 9. any of those numbers work. So that's maximize flexibility. So yeah, exactly. And see what you say 15 or 7 the minimum of the max I figured that was in there. Alyssa you have some other points. Yeah, you may go through them. Yeah, please. So line 51. So you say the parks open space trails and recreation advisory board seven members composed of and then the first thing is seven members. So I think it should just say advisory board shall be composed of and then the first thing should be whatever we're saying seven to fifteen members at large and then the second thing the second number. I just thought you're saying what it's composed of so by saying all members of the board shall be why don't you just say persons interested in and get rid of that beginning? It's just very not necessary. Does everyone understand what I'm saying? Yep. Okay. And then in the third one, I would just take out that beginning thing and start with a balanced board to ensure representation of blah, blah, blah, blah. It just seemed very wordy and repetitive and not necessary. seem very wordy and repetitive and not necessary. And also too, well I think if you just change that first one because the version in the paper was different than the version that was online because it was different but if you get rid of that section and just say advisory board, shall be composed of and then number one change it to whatever we're changing it to. So that was that section. Any comments? I want to lose a hill. No. Let's clean up the language. Okay. And then- Turnies point of view here. Line 79. Okay. Letter B, you had the next three second at large member, so it should be the next three at large members. I don't know why second was in there, but it shouldn't have been in there. I don't think. And I don't know how you change it once you vary the numbers, how you start. Okay, first or second, third, third, third. It's probably going to end up being a third or third of third, third. It's probably gonna end up being a third, a third, a third of the first appointments. Because when you come to appointments, you could decide to do nine. And so the first time around, and that's all this talks about, it's the initial appointments. So it ensures that they're overlapping terms. So the first- Third appointments will be a third, a third, a third, a third, or a third, a third, and the remainder. And those will be the ones that expire every. And then from then on, it's always three years. And so if you were, so if you have a board, you start with a board of nine, you go to seven. Okay. And you'll take care of the language of their. Yeah. But regardless, it should have been fixed that line. Then, 96, line 96, when you're talking about powers and duties. So you say, post-advisee board, she'll have the following duties. Well, a duty is an action, so it's like a verb. So I thought it was, it annoyed me that, they all didn't start with verbs. So you have advised, recommend. So number three, I would just change it to investigate and answer specific parks, open space trails, and recreation, first of all, wasn't a complete sentence. Recreation, what, I don't know what you're trying to say, as directed by the town council. So I don't know what was missing there, Indiana. Issues. Issues? Okay, so issues as directed by the town council. Then it goes with the flow and it's a verb. Their duty is to investigate and answer. And then on number four, the last sentence where it says, an operational practices that will benefit, I think it should say, get rid of the the and should say parks, open space trails, and recreation within the town. Okay. Because it didn't really make sense to me. I mean, anyone can disagree with me, but these were just my... I think you're doing a really good job. I have been doing this. Well, thank God. I would be happy that that law school money paid off. Okay, so... And then the seventh one, again, didn't start the verb. So I would say, provide to the town council at least annually a report that includes what I was going to go to. Yeah, got it. That was all I found. You want to leave that? Andy, if you want to pick that up from Alyssa, that'd be great too. It's a little messy, because I did it online. But then when they left this here, I started marking it up. Yes, I will take that. I did it online but then when they left this here I started marking it out. Yes I will take that I appreciate it. Okay any other suggestions? Nope. Do I have? Yes I do. Thank you Bob. You're trying to move us along. Second. Okay I in support. Wait, just the motion is to approve it on first reading as modified. Okay. Thank you for just making sure. First reading. Okay. All in support. Hi. Opposing sign with the changes that we have verbally discussed. Moving on. Thanks Andy. Thanks Andy. Thanks Andy. And we are now going to have some administrative reports. This is update on the roundabout and feedback on the CCP features. We have Anne, Brian and Dave. So good afternoon, all. How was it? How was it the holiday for everybody? Did you all get a break? Busy. It was busy. It was busy. OK, did you get out to ski? We did. I did. We all did. We got some good playtime. Yeah, we did. You didn't? You did? It was his turn this year to Yeah, oh the four you were the four told her you got the emergency room duty Right, but I think I saw a few pictures of Facebook oops Okay, who's up first? so Good evening and Martin's public works director Thank you, Ann David Peckler, Transportation Director and Brian Olson and Police Chief. And thank you all. Thank you all for all that hard work. It's a lot of work. The guys do all the hard work. I just get to see. And by the way, there was a great letter and a paper, Brian, to the police department. Yeah. You know, the help that they did for somebody pulled them off the road. And that letter was one thing, but I know I saw you crew. And your crew's work and so hard over the holidays. And you're all to be congratulated. OK. Good job. It's a good team. I mean, we rely on Dave's team as well. We get people around day and night. And it works out pretty well. Yes. OK. Who's going first? So in your packet, there was a memo. We just kind of gave a brief update. And as you may recall, we talked about coming back and having this conversation after the busy season of the peak holidays. Also to one to kind of see how the roundabouts are functioning. And secondly, to talk about some of the CCP and the community connectivity elements and see what we are hearing and seeing out there. And so we've put together a brief memo and overall is basically, their functioning is expected. I know there's a little bit more warm feeling to the brush creek wood road roundabout, a little less warm feeling to the mini, but as we've talked about those things and how they're working, they're working in the sense of what we expected. I've got some video we can run through to. I know you all have been watching it, but it is kind of fun to watch this. Let's see. Sure. You want to do that now or do you want to wait? Okay. that now or do you want you want to wait. Okay so we did two capsules of time this one. I gotta remember if this is Christmas day download so around four o'clock. We do need to do an adjustment to our camera as As you can see, it got moved to left a little bit. We had a camera problem. So it didn't catch the carriageway cue, the stacking there. But basically, we've all been talking about this throughout the holidays and sitting there watching it. And there's some confusion with the mini on the yielding part of things. But as you can see so like that car snuck right in, he just kept on going. But when it really comes down to that there's three people, it does what it's supposed to do as far as the yielding, the three we yield. We've identified some things that we could do to help improve the functionality. Basically is the visibility of the islands are a little tough. There are two streetlights there that were not there before that helps a little bit. But when we went into and in the season and construction is the striping contract was on the pavement as we looked at things better. I think we could do a stripe around those hard surface. The other thing that worked out well is that the snow melt is working on those islands. It doesn't work because we don't have snow melt on the bridge deck. So it stops right where that snow was piled up. But we've also noticed that that snow piling up causing this basically. I mean this is not a hard median right here. But by the snow being left there it helps slow down and causes that traffic calming effect. Are the bridge pedestrian snow melted? No. So snow removal contract. There's a section right here you can see right there. Yeah. That is snow melted up but this was never snow melted and neither was this. And that goes back to Bob's point the other night with a lady with a grocery card It's pushing it up the road right yeah, because Whatever reason they don't want to walk on that sidewalk I couldn't push a grocery cart. I mean that's true. You probably can't push a grocery cart off that sidewalk that sidewalk. That shouldn't. That shouldn't. Almost people. There's a transportation. That's causing it to just way too fast. Well, you know, we're working through the maintenance side of it. We contract out the snow removal on the sidewalks. We also augment it with our staff. You may have seen John out there today helping clean up some of the snow melt the snow with the ADA. Their ice is up a little bit. Yeah. And it's just getting familiar with how things drain and how things function and where to pile the snow and how things are going. All in all, it's working well. We had some ice build up here that we had to tackle to get that and we had some pushing upon each other. Like they pushed it over right onto the trail, made a big pile there, a we had to deal with that. It's just getting used to it. I did notice on this that there are pedestrians who just basically walk across the street wherever. They were snowboarders, I'd like to point out. Those guys, those guys. Those guys, so there's a difference, right? One guy goes to the crosswalk and one guy doesn't and they're all walking together or they were when they reached the intersection. It was two to one. Yeah, well it's two to one. But I thought I had, I don't know, maybe you're thinking about this already. You probably are in. But can't we get some reflective tape around the edge of that mini? So people see it as something round and not. What do you paint it? We painted a foreign striper on it. Yes, sir. But I think we talked about, we couldn't do it with the striper that was there this fall, because this is more detail than you need to know. We agreed that this needs to definitely pop more. I mean, Brian's even had an idea of paint the hump, you know. So we're looking at different things. But definitely also the sides of the mediums here would help visibility. Right. It's also a strange intersection geometry wise. And so we added flags up here and down at the yields right before Christmas to help get that visibility of the yields. So we'll continue to watch it and we'll be doing some of those changes next. Another comment that was made to me, the people driving down Brush Creek Road. The comment made was as cars come down from Brush Creek Road, there were times when they went into the circle without really yielding to cars that were already in the circle. And the comment was, well, are cars coming downhill concerned that they aren't able to Are cars coming downhill concerned that they aren't able to stop slopes. I mean, I can let Brian talk about this. It was this last weekend. No, two weeks ago. No, it was a week and a half ago, maybe. And I mean, it was an inexperienced driver bad equipment and speed coming down the hill and just wasn't prepared to enter the circle as quickly as he ended up doing it. And he collided with a vehicle already in the circle. You know, it's bad planning on his part. You know, the lower roundabout has the same effect as well. You know, people on Brush Creek have a sense of through way. Yeah. And I think that's, you know, that's an American population that's inexperienced on roundabouts and they get better and will get better. But, you know, as we watch the hundreds and hundreds of cars that go through there, I think having one outlier really speaks to the fact that it is actually operating really well and during these periods where it's extremely slippery we didn't have the problems that you would expect. So I've only seen one situation in this video where it looked like a car just decided to run and it was two cars, you know, it was the second one who basically just followed the first one in. When we're relying on people yielding, there's always going to be that little bit of element of confusion. But it's operating really well considering the number of vehicles that are going through it in the inclement weather. That pitch of incline coming into the roundabout has not proven to be a problem at all. Okay. I think this is the thing of beauty really. I mean I would agree to what used to go along right here. I mean that's really that's awesome. That's good works great. I mean I got a call from a guy who was you know I read about people driving over the hump and you know I just said well do you want to stop sign there? And he didn't know what to do. He was like, I want people to go around around about it. I was like, why? You know, you just spend more time in the intersection if you're going around the hump. So, I mean, I think it's working great. It slows people down. I mean, generally, people are taking turns. It's working. And we always say when someone, we get that similar complaint, it's designed to be driven over. That's part of it. It's concrete for a reason. So I think we're staying. What about the gas station? We haven't had any commissar complaints from the roundabout. I went in there to talk to them and they're really happy. Yeah, and I have two. They, you know, Jeff and Jeff are very pleased with them. I mean, there are occasionally, I mean, this idea, this is not the ideal situation here. And there's a hump in there. And we haven't had an issue. I was very concerned about that short. Well, in fact, I last Saturday when I was coming out of the hill, went through there versus the person turning right He really wanted to go to the gas station So he goes in the exit and almost caused a wreck on Saturday afternoon in the conical In the conical in the park. Yeah, well in the conical. So he comes down in the park. Yeah, well in the conical so he comes down snowmout road he goes into he doesn't turn right he immediately goes right into the roundabout and then shoots at the conical And there was another guy coming into the roundabout he had no idea that guy didn't signal or anything He just shot across right So and that was you know know, that that's, that's, and that's what you always said was going to be. Yeah. And so, you know, like we've always said, we're going to watch it, and if it becomes an issue, then we need to make design element changes. Well, actually someone sort of complained to me, or in a sense, you know, asked me, okay, if I'm coming out of Wood Road on to Brush Creek and I want to go to the gas station, how do I do it? Because I have to cross like two lanes of traffic. I said, well, you could go through the roundabout and go in the other direction. Because to me, that seemed like the safer option. But you tell me that that's now really how it was designed? No, no, this isn't in and out. It's, how it's just cautious of having that entrance back right there, that close to people going to the back. Exactly. And counts of circus, I mean, David's staff, when they, when the buses come down, they enter the roundabout, if they're going to go take a left into lower currents. They don't use the slip lane. They go into the roundabout, go down so that they're already lined up to make that left. So there's a variety of ways to make that turn. Okay. Yeah, I've noticed the shuttle is doing that. Is that just, it just helps them position themselves better to make the left? Yeah, when we looked at it, once the snow's gone, if you look down there, there's a solid white line that separates the free right from the exit out of the roundabout. And that's not a dashed line, so that means in essence, you're not supposed to cross that. And you get pretty far down hill before you get to a point where it turns to a dash. So we felt that all the route four buses that aren't going to the center, they can use the free ride, but the one, two, three, eight, if, and they're going to the center, then they're going to enter into the roundabout, if you will, coming down wood road, then they'll turn, make the right hand turn going down brush Creek Road, and that puts them next to the left hand turn pocket So they don't have to cross basically two lanes to try and execute a left hand turn Some of the other items that you know we've been watching is that this bus stop here Is a dual bus stop and raft isAPTA is using the upper stop first, which helps because then the people get off behind the bus and do the kind of the motion we want them to do is not crossing in front of buses. The other thing is there was concern on RAPTA, during design on getting going, basically to go up the hills. And so we put that traction surface on that bus stop. It's like a, it's aluminum actually aggregate and I can't say it's not working because we haven't gotten complaints that they're getting stuck I don't know if that's the right way to say it we're not getting complaints so that's a good thing that must be working so we're continuing to watch that surface you know yes we do know that there is these road walkers, everyone's fall, like the cut across here, and there are a few that cut here instead of using this. But for the most part, the elements that are there for the pedestrians to use are there if they choose not to, you know, we can't control that side of things, but there is definitely a much safer mechanism to get around. The other thing is we're not seeing a lot of use on the rapid flashbeekens, but we do see occasional use. You think people don't know that maybe there should be a sign? There is. There is on the signs. It says like cross press. Yeah, I can look at it again. I mean, I do know I have a reach distance here that I need to look at where we're piling snow to make sure that you can get to the button. That was always a concern. Could we ask the raft of drivers is to remind people to hit the button when they're crossing? just to remind people to hit the button when they're crossing? We can try that. Yeah, there's like 500 bus drivers for the rest. 170, I believe. It gets a little hard. Yes. But it is. I mean, that stop is something we've always talked about a lot. So if it's, I mean, it mean, it's probably worth throwing it out there to see if. Oh, yeah. We can always point it out. I think the real big benefit is we pulled the bus stop up the hill. And now the bus, the people coming behind the bus are lined up basically with the cross zone or cross walk. And that has been a huge benefit, I think, at that intersection because it's not keeping all that upper brush creek road traffic from being so close to the intersection or trying to do the diagonals that you kind of saw before. They're getting across upper brush creek road and then they're making their diagonal cuts you know on wood road or wherever. This is from yesterday just you know MLK. Are there when you're coming down brush creek road like if you're coming from this wide yeah before I was in paying attention the last time I drove it but when you're coming from this side. Yeah. Before I was in paying attention the last time I drove it, but when you're coming down, are there any signs that say you're approaching around about? Yeah, there's pre-warning signs at all. You know, and I've had that comment too. This is a pre-warning sign here for the mini. There is a lot going on. And so, you know, everybody's like, well, let's put another sign up to do this. You're not, sometimes you're not gonna see it. There's too much going on, especially if you're not familiar with it. And even if you are, you're driving it. We don't see it. Right. Right. So you're kind of have to... No, I just, I didn't know if there was a sign turn. Yep, and so there's pre-warning round about sign up here too. There's almost too many signs. There's so many signs. You just... Yeah. So the other thing is just, you know, we've heard the comments like Bob you were saying. We've heard some of those comments of... Put it back to a two-way stop. One of the things that we've seen is that it... This scenario works better than the single stop and the two-way stop. We did not have the cues up to the bridge deck. There was maybe one time that it was a five-second cue of cars on peak download up to here. We did not see it like we did last year when there was a two-way stop. So it's doing what it's supposed to do. The biggest culprit to this intersection is the tree house. And it's so it's basically what I call is like that school start, school stop scenario where everybody wants to bring their kids. And it's continuing conversations. We worked with Brian's and staff has done a great job talking to ski co to see if they can get some people out there to help direct. That's got a challenge because then you're directing to the parking garage. Then are they lost in the parking garage? It's a guest experience type of thing. So they're continuing to work on those conversations. And that was really that Christmas week that it was the really big ones. Well, the other issue is that you have continual hotel shuttles going into the tree house. Yep. That have no kids on them. So I mean, I know that they know they're supposed to go to the Rival Center and why they don't go to the Rival Center, I don't know. But that is a huge, that's like one of the biggest problems because they clog up, they sit there until everyone has to unload anyways. And it's just, it's awful. I mean, if they have kids, it's awful. I mean if they have kids it's one thing But if they don't have kids they should not be going there One of the things that we did do I agree with you We've talked to them and I know David's talked to them at length about this on the shuttle drivers We did add a sign and we're gonna look at that turn lane pockets going uphill But basically delineating a longer turn lane to go into the tree house So you can have a little bit more stacking there so that the people going up carriageway have a better chance of a through lane. So we'll look at that restripe next spring as well. Well, I think it's working very well. So I don't know if there's any other. So, I mean, in part of this discussion when the council's schedule is in November or December was we wanted to make sure as we move forward with future designs, specifically town park an owl creek and brush creek that you had a chance to see how this operated before we Continued forward those designs on those two intersections at least Those intersections are budgeted they're ready to go and we just wanted to make sure that you're comfortable that we're going to put those designs with pedestrian enhancement designs. As we've talked about into those designs, as they, I'm now repeating myself, as we go ahead with Town Park design and Alakreek and Brush Creek design, we plan to incorporate all these pedestrian elements into those designs and then take the projects forward from there. Brian, what are you seeing down at Al Creek and in Breast Creek? Well, during peak times Dave can't get his job done. I mean we're getting backed up on Al Creek, past the firehouse, you know, during peak afternoon times and we just can't get out of that intersection. It's pretty difficult. We've had to go down and put an officer in the middle of the intersection stop brush creek traffic which is 30 mile an hour plus traffic to empty out Alcreek. So that definitely is going to benefit from some major design enhancements. Okay. And is the fire department weighed in on around about there? I mean, it is a safety concern. Yeah, I think, and they're working with the fire department to make sure that the turn radius is accurate and well, and I think that will help emergency response out of that new building for sure. And I would just echo that when we were doing some preliminary study of a mini or map or full size roundabout. Backwind? Yeah way back when we invited them to come and test out their turning radiuses through there. It will work work they will be able to make it through that roundabout whatever roundabout plan you come up with. We did that same thing when we did the mini here we did demos with all the buses basically I laid out some soccer cones on what the template would look like and then had the largest fire trucks come through, and then we also had Raptor come through. Just, we want to make sure we weren't missing something when we laid that out. Nice job. And there's plenty of room down there to do a full roundabout. We are just starting on looking at what that dimension needs to. It's gonna be a huge engineering chair. And there's, you know, fresh creek through there and there's utilities and storm drainage that needs to be improved. We've got a bush top right there. Yeah. And it needs to be got everything. Then there's also the conversation on, you know, route three comes on Alcreek Road and people want to transfer to that regional system and how do we tie that all together? Yeah. It together? It's a complex task. We were looking at, was it the many roundabout we did a few years ago there? We're out of Creegotta, remember all the details. They probably goes. Yeah, we were giving you a couple of options. I won't say it's as many as that. It was a smaller roundabout. I know it was a nice price tag on it then. Clean, what's the next step for town pork? I punt to Ann and she tells you. I mean, fundamentally we've got the dollars budgeted. Well, where are we? Dollars budgeted for what? Pedestrian. Pedestrian. We have a pedestrian improvement. Remember we added, we had dollars in 16. We added the additional dollars in 17, so we haven't finalized, we haven't even started. But is this a temporary change? No, this is- Subject to changing the bus, the buses go into town park station? No, we base the budget off of the recommendations that were in the CCP plan. So closing off that turn lane, moving the crosswalk, narrowing it so there's a less distance in there and using rapid flash beacons and then also looking at the lighting levels in that area to make sure that they're adequate. I am all for all of that except the rapid flash beacons. I think it's overkill. I don't and I don't see that we're getting enough in my opinion, we're not getting enough use out of it where we've installed it in a pretty busy intersection to the pedestrian area. If I may come to circus, sure. Whatever we're seeing here is not completely representative of the use every single day. I mean, the beacon as a new product is growing in use each day. But the crosswalk layout is getting used by pedestrians. And this enhancement here has actually worked really, really well and created a super safe scenario if you look at town park station even though the speed limit's 30 There's a propensity to come rolling into that venue with a little bit more speed unless fronzy's park there And the rapid the rapid flashbeakens especially at night Chris is a very dark here. Yeah, it's extremely dark and we're going to light it. But that would be, I think, a critical enhancement that would create safety aid to anybody trying to cross that. And I think the use and I just generally the use of it is going to grow. And I think it'll perform better and better as time goes on. And I have to say Bob, I totally disagree with you. I mean, it is so dangerous and so dark down there. I know I say it every time. But it is dark down there. But if we're going to change the location of the crosswalk and we're going to add lighting, so it's not dark, then you can see people. What my concern is, what my concern is, one of the big questions we're trying to answer with the Complan review is what is the character of our town? What character do we want our town to look like? Do we want it to remain more of a rural feel or do we want it to move into more of an urban feel? of a rural feel or do we want it to move into more of an urban feel. And I don't think we've answered that question. And for me, when I'm putting up, you know, blink your flashing lights for crosswalks, it's definitely more of an urban feel. I get it, but I, first of all, they only flash if you press the button. So, I mean, everyone has to remember that. I mean, I think people don't understand. It's not going to flash unless you go up and press it. Second, I think the roundabout is totally different. I mean, and even said before, the roundabout's very busy. There's a lot going on. There's a lot of signs. And people are slowing down because it's the roundabout anyway. So people, I feel like, are maybe less inclined there to press the button. Whereas town park, it's dark, just like on Main Street and Aspen, in those certain spots where they have the beacons. It's totally dark, and it's a straight shot across. Whereas the roundabout, you're kind of moving in a circular motion. I just think, I mean, I just, I think it's a mistake on the town's part to not make that intersection more safe. So let me come back to something. So the next step would be what? And it would be designed? To do finished design. Because what we have right now is very conceptual design. So we need to do surveying and start on more of a preliminary and final design. But normally what happens is it's a design, we, you know, we approve it and then we get the construction going and we hope to get it done this fall. So, okay, so let's say we have a full, we have a full time frame for construction. How will we be far enough along in the comp plan review to understand which direction the community wants to go. Well, if we design for the flashing beacons, you can always turn them off. No, no. That's that's where I'm headed. But that's not saying so for at this point, I think we should design for go forward with assuming that's the majority will. And then at some point if someone says, you know what? That's just too much. That's it's so much easier to turn them off than to put them back in. Is there, and you probably know the, I'll direct this one to you. Thinking about Plana Polusa coming at the end of September, or September, February, would we have enough design features for what that might look like with the beacons to get input at the plan of Paloza in February? The best example you're going to have is this intersection. Well, you know, if you have conceptual design, I couldn't we use conceptual design. If it is for community input, community conversation, could we have people to weigh in on this particular issue in that intersection? Because I will say listening to Bob, yada yada, and being at the table I was the other night in the notion of rural suburban urban as you come up, brush creek that jogged my mind. However, I will tell you, I come through that intersection every night in the dark, coming back from glimuth springs. If it's snowing and somebody has a dark jacket, it's hard to see. It's very hard to see. I'm thinking, well, if we move the little light, and I've been thinking a lot about this, because there's some nights that you just pray. I mean, I always, I hate to say this, I stop just in case. But that's not normal. No. Most people come flying through there at night. So I understand the issue of the safety issue at the same time. I also hear the voices within the community. So, my thought was, can we weave something together and put out there a plan of polluter or not? Yeah, we always can. I mean, it's our recommendation that we get the design going with these. And then, in a something changes, we change it. If you want to bring it up and get more input later on, great. If we get bad feedback later on, fantastic. But that's why we made the recommendation as we did is we think this works well. We think that it should be incorporated in the design now. And that's how we did that. But if you- That's the timeline on design as a go now go. I, you know, it's based on this meeting, we were having conversations that we wanted to look at this after the holidays and how, you know, the concerns you guys have was, how are the rapid-flesh beacons? Let's get through this busy season. So that's why we're here tonight. So now I kick off as I think on the discussion on doing the town park station design and I need to contact engineers and get that going. So I don't have a schedule for you right this second, but I'm anticipating spring time and then we go to bid on it and then construction like Clint said is that we'd have that wrapped up by fall. So there's some time to have this conversation. And maybe it's during some of the comp discussions, talk, just feel out the conversations over the rapid flashbeakens. But I guess one concern I wanted to point out to you is we talked about that intersection, as you know right now, it's the end of that median, and there's a light there. And it kind of shines down in a bad lighting. Like, I hate to say it, but I've come close to, you know, Clip of the Me and Tan. And you, and then you go, I need to slow down. But we're moving that intersection back further. And even though the distance is less between, we're trying to narrow that road way up, you can't put a sign or a light in the middle of that road. So there's still some kind of difference in lighting. And all that rapid flash beacon does is give you that outside warning that there is somebody activity going on there. I mean, I drive a NASPEN and sometimes that light goes off randomly and you're like, where is the person? But at least it's got your attention to slow down and say, okay, there could be a person here. I better be looking. And then can I just ask the question? Some people don't even push it and they go across right? I mean just because you put a little flashy in there I agree but it's the safety factor. This is the thing no matter if you put the beak in the flashing part in There's still going to be the little man in the crosswalk So all your adding Bob is a light that's basically what you're doing I mean,, you're still gonna have that sign there. So rule, urban, whatever. You still have to have a crosswalk sign. And we went to these as solar at this intersection on purpose because one, I mean, we could have gotten power there with this construction project very easily. But we wanted to get the technology as solar so that John and the guys could get familiar with that. And then just like you're saying, is during the design process, the Tom Park station is still gonna have the pedestrian crossing sign. And then it's the adding, it's the height thing and adjusting and putting in the flash bar and putting the solar panel on top. The other thing is we put these on wood poles, which is not what the manufacturers recommend. Typically they want that industrial wood or metal pole. I I said no it needs to be our standard wood pole. We wanted to look a little more rustic and not as industrial. And so they figured out how to route that out the side of the pole hide the wiring in there so it looks a little bit more aesthetically pleasing. So it's not a big design element change. I think what we need to do is start the design process of like I said the surveying and the geometric design of the intersection. And we can have a further discussion on whether we don't want or if we want to add on the rapid flash beacons or if we don't, I mean, we could always bid it as an alternate to and then delete it out. It just becomes, as you go through the comp plan process of this is absolutely not an element you guys have. I have something, and I've been waiting to say and I agree with the list the safety issues. The rule versus urban versus rule and so on is going to happen because first of all I don't know what the access for the water and sand is going to have for all their dump trucks coming the coming year and a half okay. So that's going to add to the problem down here. We have the comments. When the darkness and everything else is not so bad in the summertime, but in winter time, when that bus unloads and all those kids are coming back from Aspen, it's dark and they've been out having a good time, they're not making the right decision. Okay, I know we don't have dump trucks on the road at that hour, but the dump trucks coming on in the spring and summer between everything that's going on in snow mass is going to add to the big problem. I think safety, Bob, I'm going to disagree with you, I'm going to agree with Alyssa. I don't see the flashing lights being an issue. I think safety's got to be our main issue right here. Why don't we incorporate the conceptual designs in the plan of Paloza and let the community basically input whether they think it's impactful or not. Well, I have a problem I have with that, as I think most of the people I'm talking about that go to the the Commons aren't going to really come to the plan of Paloza. But those are the people that are in jeopardy. It's not just the people at the plan of Paloza, and there'll be more people at the plan of Paloza to provide input than there will be if we wait and don't do it and bring a design back to a council meeting or to it. That's that's any commission meeting and have a public hearing about it. That's fine. I mean, the plan of loses a week long. It's a week. There'll be a lot of people. They'll get a lot of input. But I think everybody's got to, we just have to keep safety in mind. I mean, if we lose somebody in this community, it's going to come down to everybody here sitting at this table that we didn't do the proper thing. And that's the worst thing that can happen. I would suggest as of that we direct you to move forward with designs, you know, start working that process because before weeks away from planPolusa, at the same time while you began to work that part of the Gantt chart, then we also include whatever you have available for conversation input of Plano-Polusa. Let's get this issue out on the table and let the community weigh in on whatever you've got in. That's where I am on it. I mean, the community community weigh in on whatever you've got in. That's where I am on it. I mean, the community can weigh in, but I think that, I mean, safety really has to be the issue. I mean, when do you determine to put the blinking light in in the middle of brush creek road? There's a blinking right, if you're going down brush creek road before you get to the intersection, right? So we put those in after snow removal season. I think the one, I think we've been keeping the one at that intersection because we've been trying to protect it. The other ones like Awl Creek Road, where the trail crosses and we have another one, I can't remember off the top of my head. Are they still there? No, we take them off. I'm not going to say they're gone. We take them off during the winter because there are obstructions for poor people. Right, but my point is that, I mean, those go in because it's a safety issue. Yes. So, I mean, we can have this conversation about rural and remote and, you know, what we think about it philosophically, but realistically, we've got to be able to get people across that intersection without putting ourselves in a position where we're liable. And I think concentrating that intersection where people can cross, if we have to put a railing in to make sure that people can't cross the road where the crosswalk currently is, to make sure that they're going in their eye place. I mean, those are the things that I think we really have to focus on, lighting it so that it's focused, it's in one place, and they have that button so that they have that safety of a blinking light when they cross. Well, the reason why I brought it up, plan of Paloza is because we've contemplated other ones. So thought is, get the community to weigh in now. Right, under a particular issue, I think it's important to be able to visualize it and understand that it's aesthetically no different than what else is in the town already. I mean, if you just said rapid blinking, flashing lights, I mean of course people are going to be crazed by it. I mean, I think it's really important to have the visual there and to explain what it is. Yeah, it's so different than Aspen's. And so let me just be... this is the tough part of my job, I got to count the three. And so the direction I'm going to take and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, is the majority is saying go ahead, get the design going, go ahead and design for the flashing lights, get feedback as much as you can through Planet Paloza and as something changes, then be responsive to that feedback. But in the meantime, go ahead and design and plan for construction for the safest intersection possible. And then we'll get feedback along the way and if something changes you'll let me know. Let's do everyone in favor. I think that's a logical way of planning on the flashing lights. I agree with that. And then if you want to shut them off, you shut them off. I mean, if it's not too good to half. I'm comfortable. I'm fine. Yeah I think it's important to move forward with the design that we've seen. Moving the bus stop, crosswalk, having the flashing lights. Okay, listen. You know I'm in the center. Okay. Okay, we have unanimous. Well, the only thing I'm doing little nervous about is I don't know where we'll plug it in, plan a polluza. I mean, we're talking about big stuff there, so that we'll find a place. But we'll, and we'll, and we'll, and we'll, and can ask another just quick question. I was noticing and I was leaving the snowmask club that there was these little signs that said, you know, please walk on the sidewalk for your safety or something like that. Are those from the town or those put up by the Snowmass Club? Does anybody know what I'm talking about? I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. I'll let Brian talk on the one. Probably Snowmass Club could also be Nordic Council in dealing with the Nordic ski track which is getting the bus traffic walking down one side of it. They might, I think, they're trying to, the Nordic groomers are trying to encourage the comments folks to walk on the sidewalk and not on the groomed trail to access the buses. They're kind of messing with the ski trail. Got it. I just know that. That's the private road from St. Black saddle down to the intersection. So we have no control over the sidewalks in there. That's why all those people go into the comments are in the street on both directions. That's a problem. They break their trail all the time. We can encourage them to walk on the sidewalks as well. When we're down on the sidewalk. Well, the sidewalk in wintertime is not accessible. down on the other side. Well, the sidewalk in the wintertime is not accessible. They do plow it. Yeah, it's accessible. One side, you just go with all the other. We are, so the morning you wouldn't know. It's in the dark, I guess. I don't go that way. But most of the time, I say, when I see these people leaving the bus or going to the bus, they're all over the place. They are, you know, they're not even following any direction. If there's, maybe that's why I think the sidewalks are not plowed because they're in the street. They're everywhere. Yeah, there's not a sidewalk on the east side just on the west. And they do use the road. It makes no sense. It's short as a, short as a, short as a, short as a, short as a, short as a, short as a, short as a, short as a short as pass. So it's a pedestrian shortest path. Right. Okay, anything else on this topic? Again, thank you to all three of you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Next is EOTC update. Dave, that meeting's Thursday night at 4. Thursday night at 4.30 now. They pushed back the meeting. We just got that notification. Do we know why? No. There was not, there wasn't a reason given though. You got your EOTC packet on Friday. The main, this as you may recall, this was a special meeting that they arranged so that you could go over the, where they are with the Upper Valley Mobility Study, where they are to date. I'll point out a few areas that you want me to project those or no? Sure. Yeah, if you can. If I can remember how to do this. and and we just the packets upload a down here I'll just like it open seventy three pages I'll get these started on persons. We just approved another $375,000 for fees. This study is worth of a million. For this ITSP, we will go north of a million dollars for raftus stuff. And no data yet. You're going to stop this. Absolutely no data. Raff to just approved it. 16 or 17? Third phase. Well I'm jumping to 17. 16 and 17 sort, I'm sorry. Didn't mean dinner. Okay go ahead. 16 and 17 sort of talk about the data that's being collected through the air sage cell. Yes. talk about the data that's being collected through the air sage cell. Yes, and by the way, none of that data has been put into the very cells. They've got a cute little spreadsheet. But when I started asking about snowmass and one, have you none of the data is to analyze yet? You have to remember that the cell phone data is somewhere in north of three million Remember that the cell phone data is somewhere north of 3 million bits of information that have to be cleaned through. They are also by user group 3. I'm pointing to the page 17 because the, this really talks about how many travel groups that are being studied and there are subsets of the 3 million bits of information spread over four, I believe four different time frames. So, um, there's a lot that's going on here for them to distill down. So, I'm not even sure we're going to have anything for this meeting. We will not have anything for this EOTC meeting. The data they told us we wouldn't have until, I think we're scheduled for March now for our town council. I think I saw here was February, but Ralph told me the other day. Yeah, they bumped it back a month. We got something today. Oh, it's, yeah, they will not be ready for us. Yeah, I think the March meeting is the integrated transportation system plan and they're going to give you these two projects that are moving under the same consultant. So you'll get an update on the ITSP on March 3rd, I believe it is. Or 13th. Yeah, March 13th. So all I wanted to point out is this is just the grouping that is potential with that data. It's broken by air sage down into the three resident employee or other, and you kind of get a sense of what those are. So the next kind of key point is on page 27 and 28, which is trying to get to... This is what they're looking to take off the streets of Aspen through their look at the everything that's going across the castle, Roon Creek Bridge or the castle Creek Bridge. So it's a significant reduction in bus trips. They don't come without a price. There's something that has to take its place, whether it's a rail line LRT system or beefier BRT system. But this is generally just the issue that they're going to talk about. And David, I guess I don't understand this. But in that chart, who made that call? That's the goals. I mean, on page 25, this is where it sort of comes from. This is total, we're after bus trips, system wide, close to 1500. The buses that are serving Ruby Park, there's roughly 1,000, 1,100. The one's going in that crossed the castle Creek Bridge, 752 buses. And then they're looking at, well, what can we efficiently capture? And that's that 458. And that jives with, I'll tell you what, this is a better. This helps you a little bit better. This is trying to say okay of that, what's that 458? It's trying to pick up, we can capture some of the BRT trips, we can patch the 143 bus trips that are snowmass trips going from snowmass to Aspen, buttermilk as part of the ski company contract and also a user group that's very specific. They can target that group as well. There's some other things like going to the hospital, you're probably not going to capture that group. It's too short a haul for the transfer. So Aspen and the consultant is recommending that they not necessarily try to go after groups where you're going to pay too big a penalty in the transfer to keep users on the system. So, in essence, those are, the other big group is just the regional bus service itself, which is the Rowling-Forg Valley. Commuter is 95 bus trips per day. So that's where that number comes from. So for us, that 143 bus trips per day from Snowmass Village, they're where their target market to get us off a bus on a different transportation mode potential. would be that would be the goal. Yeah, and then our question then is How can that be convenient for us? How can that make it? How can that be better than the service we're currently getting? Yeah, there's not just a trip into Aspen. There's a return trip as well What does that all look like so? Yeah, so the thought is to take him over to intercept lot get on a rapid, a rapid train there, light rail. Right. But the question for us to evaluate is, is that a better service or not a better service when we see those, when we see those alternatives coming in? What's the service from the intercept lot to snowmass if it's not going to be bus? No, we're only talking about, we're only, we've only intercepting the aspen. We've only been talking about intercept to aspen Right there's nothing coming in here. I think they've eliminated the train coming to snowmass because of the inclots When I'm saying the evaluation, I mean David's taught me this Every time you have to change you have to have to transfer, that's an inconvenience. And right now, a lot of the buses go our direct. You don't have to transfer. You sit on the bus and go in. If all of a sudden, every bus trip, our customers, our residents, whoever, have to transfer, is that really better for us or not? So, David, that 143 means trips from the intercept lot to Aspen, not necessarily trips from the intercept lot to Snowmass. I think they're both in play. Well we've talked about alternatives for intercept to Aspen but we haven't talked about alternatives from intercept to Aspen, but we haven't talked about alternatives from intercept to snowmass. Well, I think in terms of just saying, well, it's bus trips. And I think the 143 is probably the regional a big portion of that number. And then probably the snowmast has been directs that you see in the winter and summer as well. So on a scale of magnitude of it, you're not seeing a thousand trips coming into snow mass. You're probably dealing with somewhere around 143 trips total that are impacting your roadway. And the question is, is that enough to support an alternative technology that is going to be pretty spendy? So no matter how you dice it or slice it. But again, this was, you know, the history of this is the entrance to Aspen. It's now called the Upper Valley Mobility Study, but its focus really is as we kind of go through this. And as you go through your packet, you're gonna find that it's's that the main focus here. You know let's go back to this AirSage data and you had the six buckets. One of the things are six the cells, what the study is for the four periods. Way back when this was presented to the upper mobility study to EOTC, we requested that we would see our own air sage data of what's going up and down. That's right. Rush Creek. That is not included. That's true. This is going to be one of the talking points originally on. This is going to be one of the talking points originally on. I believe in Ralph's, Ralph is the spokesman for Parsons, tried very hard to articulate what they were working under the in conjunction with the ITSP and the Upper Valley Mobility Study. They were trying very hard to go. We're trying to focus on the transit aspect here. We're not trying to see a total travel pattern study. That's something different in the traffic engineering world. And so this was just to get you to a point where you could model to today's, your understanding of today, get the model to project, accurately what rafters, ridership counts are. And then as we look to the future with the build out scenarios and the alternative technologies from intercept lot into Aspen making those things work and making those projections as accurate as possible. That didn't necessarily include that they would study every aspect of a movement outside of the transit grouping. I thought that the reason why we supported whatever amount of money, half million, 490,000, if I remember right, was we requested that in order to support it, we really wanted our own A or H data of what this was in brush creek. And the other day, we'll have that for the transportation, we'll have that for transit, but we won't have it for vehicles. Well, that's, that was what we wanted, but my understanding we're not going to see anything of the air sage data for brush Creek. Coming up brush Creek into snowmass for transit, we will transit you will. Okay, which was that's that's the package is transit everywhere, but not private vehicles. The cars, right. So you won't have a total, as I said, a travel pattern, as it says, the scope does not provide forecasting travel modes other than transit. So growth in private automobiles, single occupancy vehicles isn't going to be a component of that, pedestrians, large vans, et cetera, et cetera. Those movements won't, the data's there. I think I'm going to say a couple of things, because I don't want you to have a feel like you get, or getting hoodwinked here. And Ralph is becoming, Ralph Trapani is becoming concerned about that. A lot of the air sage data you paid about 80,000 for with 7 to 10,000 coming from the Aspen's Geek Company. That was just that part of this study for mobility sake. Lion's share of this is going into the design and engineering work that we'll touch on in a minute that deal with is it a BRT alignment and Service that's on highway 82 or are you building a light rail corridor and trying to deal with that or studying electric buses or whatever Number of things we they're gonna come up with in the course of the next couple of weeks. They have done a significant amount of engineering work, as we will show you in a second, on the LRT alignment, as in how do we cross brush creek road at the intercept lot without impacting traffic levels. There's been a bit of design work going into the castle Maroon Creek intersection. Intersection to see how can we do, what's the best way to approach this intersection so that we don't have traffic delays that are or an unsafe situation that's untenable for the community. So I think you gotta keep in mind that the lion share of that 450,000, if you will, went to develop these engineering plans for your alternative conveyance. And I don't mean to be argumentative with the mayor. No, it's just we're spending a ton of money. It's a lot of money. It's a lot of money at the end of the day. Just for studies. Yeah. So given that we touched on them, I think to cut to the chase, I think page 64 shows you these are things you want to think about before you get there. I'm not going to give you there's no I don't have an opinion. I don't have a dog in the fight. One of the things the consultants will be talking about a little bit is the blue line is trying to get the LRT line all the way to Ruby Park whoops, which is right there and What they're suggesting possibly is the impacts of the two intersections here and on Main Street whoops here? I've got to get used to this, they're pretty significant. You may want to look at an alternative that says, we're going to end the BRLRT line across from the hotel Jerome and on Main Street and then create a pedestrian plaza on Galena. And then you would have a North South pedestrian quarter and then with Highman Mall, you would have a North South pedestrian quarter and then with Hyman Mall, you would have an East West pedestrian quarter, which is something I think worth considering and taking a look at for a number of reasons. Take a lot of big vehicles trying to make that S curve movement into the heart of the city to get to Ruby Park. Ruby Park. Ruby Park still has to be there to operate the local bus system that the city of Aspen supports. But you really wanna add light rail station to that location and maybe you're better served by ending it on Main Street and not going through all that. But at the end of the day, it's the Aspen voters that will be voting on this. Oh yeah, well yeah. At the end of the day, I'm just pointing out what's in this packet. We have no say. Exactly right. The last thing that's kind of a little bit of interest will be, whoop, will be page 67. This is just, they've been doing a lot of work on the LRT station proposal for the intercept lot. These are a number of alternatives. Option D that you see there, it's lighted because they're probably going the impact to the brush creek highway 82 intersection going right through the middle of it probably is a bit too high They're throwing out option D1 as an alternative so that the light rail Train would be in sync with the signalized intersection so that you don't You don't stop the intersection twice, once for the train, once for the auto traffic, or it's also can be the viaduct section is suggesting it may go over the highway and then drop into the train station. If you go with the green line, you can probably definitely achieve that grade separation going over the highway and then land it into those that section that's kind of an underutilized portion of the intercept parking lot. So these are just things they're going to talk about when you're at the meeting. The green line shows it going over the highway. Yeah, correct. So that's not going to interfere with the runway approach. Correct. It won't, traffic won't have to stop. It'll just go underneath. Well, I meant the airport, you know, because it's right at the beginning where these planes are coming down To three three here. This is before you get into shale bluffs. I mean this is right. You're virtually Stone's throw from the intersection. All right, so it's on the west side of shale bluffs. Yeah, okay There is a point where the highway and these alignments go into that impact zone for the airport. I could look up the pages for you but you can find them in there. I'd look at that green second green square. Dave are there other options on this from the intercept lot that go over the roadway or the rest of them across the roadway. I think the goal is to try and reduce the impact of the light rail line on the roadway. On the roadway. So is D1 go over the top of the roadway? I believe it's trying to go over the top of the road. With the top also. Yeah, because I mean, I guess I can, you know, my mind When I see these various things options and where the stations are where you'd actually go to load You'd want to you know, do you want to make it as comfortable as possible? Between getting off the bus and getting on to the rail. So for me that means being close by. Well, food for thought is, I just want to put it at one thing. The reason the green line doesn't just go along the property line on the what would be the southeast side of that parcel. This is a major compressor, gas compressor, compression station, something that you don't want to touch if you don't want to get in here. No. So that's why this line is pulled out over here. The reason we're talking about this location a little bit is, at some point we're gonna expand the parking capacity at the intercept lot. And we wanna make sure, once we put the rail line in, it is where it's gonna be. We're trying to look at a way to make it so that the rail line would move over there. There's an assumption that the bus service would be on opposite platform transfer. So that might mean that that BRT station moves. Oh, I see. But it would be a smaller cost than the impact of the light. Yeah. As you were saying that I was just thinking about how that was done in Atlanta where you know they had it over above ground light rail. Right. Yeah and that's what happened. The bus brought people into someplace like the bottom of the station and then you'd take an escalator up to the train. Right. So it would really mean kind of reconfiguring what we're used to now in terms of the bus station at the intercept block. And also means that the bathrooms and everything else that's possibly planned there are going to be very involved in going to be in a wrong spot. Well, we do remember that flap grant is in 2018. So we have some planning time. Your input on this is very important on where all this stuff lands. So. Sure. Starbucks. Yeah, the future Starbucks. They did have some, I don't want to steal the consultant's thunder, you know, they do have some interesting pictures there referring, oh, I forgot the town in Germany where there's four levels of different transit services coming into a one location and you vertically move around much like you're describing in land, I believe. So some of those thoughts are being incorporated into some of this. Yeah, they're trying to bring you the best package possible. Very interesting. Thank you, Dave. Next, David. It's going to be a long meeting, guys. I guess I assumed that the rail, because Trapani said that the rail was built into the existing shale bluffs infrastructure. I guess I assumed that it was gonna be on the left side going into town, but it's on the right. It's on the shale bluffs side. Wait, it looks. If you back up to, well, 53, I believe here is where Back up to, well, 53. I believe here is where the cut sheet starts here. You're probably going into shell bluffs and you're coming out. They are going to talk a little bit about a double split rail here that had a big boost to the headways for the LRT. Originally, if you don't put this in, then one train has to wait till the other train gets through shell bluffs. They put this in here, the two trains can maybe pass each other. So it's one of the things they're kind of working on, but you're right. The rail alignment is pretty much on that airport side of the road. And the alignments at the airport, they're trying to plan for whether it stays at the BRT station or whether it's going to go in and service the main terminal directly. So that's another plan element they're trying to take into consideration. And the last one is just the Castle Maroon Creek intersection. They're now exploring going underneath the intersection with the rail line. There she is. About of engineering. I mean, it's a ready, excuse me. Well, I mean, we've been presented the airport possible, new terminal, and you know, how does this, this is going to have to all be together. I mean, you know. Yeah, you could run if the station could be on 82 and you'd walk across to the terminal. Well, but this wouldn't be the- The rail system that they have designed right now is on the airport side of the highway. Right, it is. Which is where it should be. Well, it should be an interesting meeting. But with the new terminal that we were presented, that they came in four, five, six weeks ago, whatever it was. The rail has been voted down so many times. I mean, I don't know. Well, you know, we asked that question when we approved this money. And the Aspen Council people said it will be the political, it will have the political, what, wherewithal to, to take it on. We can ask them again, as we probably should every time we sit down with them. I, I never realized that we were already into significant engineering design. Okay. we were already into significant engineering design. I think to keep in mind is just this is the difference of BRT bus to light rail. That's the number of bus trips that you're taking off and what they get replaced with. So from city of Aspen's point of view, some city Aspen point of view, that number of light rail trips in the peak hour might be more palatable than 30 some buses. So I'm not taking a side, I'm just giving you the information. I mean the question I posed to Ralph, the last meeting was, what's the tipping point? You know, what brings you from buses to trains? And I guess his response was, we can't have buses continually going in and out of town. And I mean, you can. I mean, we have a lot of buses running now. So if the difference in this is 20 buses, that's a pretty big pill to swallow for a billion dollars. Yeah. And plus to Clint's point, I mean, if we're sending our guesses to the intercept lot, to get on a train, that's not more convenient. Not interested. Okay. Well, I would... I'll just be nice. Show us. There's a night. Yeah, bring... You know, we're trying to walk you through a little bit of it, so you have a little bit of idea what's going to be discussed. So, those are all important questions that need to be addressed. Thank you very, very much Dave. You're welcome. You're just the messenger. Thanks very much. It's good info though. Thanks Dave. Thank you very much. Okay next item is town council appointments, outside boards. There was a list in your packet, any comments? So what's in there is your current appointment. We didn't know if you wanted to change any or not. And if you don't, we can just cut and paste an over to propose a point from 17 to 19, or if you wanted to change it up, we weren't sure how you wanted to proceed. Well, how's everybody? I'm happy with my position on the Nordic Council. I'm pleased to be involved with the Corps. I'm happy. I'm fine. It's fine. I think I am supposed to have an alternate. You're because Chris used to be my alternate. For Northwest Cog? Yeah. Aren't I, Clint? Or no? I don't know. It doesn't matter. Alyssa. I'll be your alternate. Okay. Between the two of us will figure it out. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Next item is town councilor. So just make sure I got it. Everybody is staying the same. Except for Radian Bob is the alternate for- Because I think there was this con. There was, there was, anyways. I don't know. And I think it's great if you guys, because you can't make everything if you guys can, we'll make sure everybody knows. All right. Okay. Town council reports in action. Tom? Nothing Okay, town council reports in action. Nothing has changed. We have a core meeting coming up this Thursday in the morning from 9.11 right here in this room. So, Ashton Mass Village will be hosting the first time core meeting and from there I can roll into EOTC. I'm looking forward to both, you know, all one thing. I think that's pretty much guarantees a powder day on Thursday. I'm not picking up the ski some crud by maybe 12 o'clock, you know. But that's it for me. I have, I'd like to suggest, I guess, that at our work session in February, we, we get briefed again on the trimodel concept and the critical mass concept that was originally discussed when base village was approved in the early 2000s. For the purpose of giving us all kind of an understanding of the concept of what was meant by just big enough and how we were going to balance the commercial and the residential space within each of the various nodes, because as we are going through with basically with new developers in so far two of the three nodes, and also things that relate to the Complan review which were brought up, some of which were brought up in the evening session, I think that it would be good for all of us sitting here to get a history lesson. Yeah, honestly, and it seems to me it fits a work session situation. situation and again I think it would be useful to do in February again before the plan of Paloza. I'm fine with it if we can get to be purpose and Gus probably his it was it was Gus I remember right that that coined the term just big enough. And then it's pervus with numbers in the trinatal. Carolyn and Bob created the formula. Gus enunciated that we don't want it too big We just want it big enough, but they really made it into a formula and it drove the square footage. It wasn't, I mean, wasn't it also incorporated into the original base village PUD information? I don't remember. I thought. I don't remember. I don't remember. I don't remember. I don't remember. I don't remember. I don't remember. I don't remember. I don't remember. I thought it was. I don't remember. I thought it was. I don't remember. I thought it was. I thought it had the commercial residential spaces and the percentages. Oh yeah. That's in there. That's in there. But yeah, it's just some background. So you want, I guess I'm a little confused. You want to know what the 2004 approval did or what the 2015 approval did? 2004. 2004. 2004. 2004. Because it changed. I mean, some of the fundamentals. Condos are gone, limelights in. Look at what the original, how the, we've come to know and agree and live with the fact that we have a try-nordal situation. And that was even understood in 2004. It was going to be the mall, it was going to be the base village, it was going to be the snowman center. We still have those three entities. Instead of they're all being owned by the same developer and now they're owned by three different developers. And there's discussion about redeveloping, the more all this discussion about redeveloping the Snowmass Center. Well, those redevelopments had already been discussed in a fair amount of detail in 2004. a fair amount of detail in 2004. So I think it'd be useful for us to hear or be reminded what we thought things were going to look like then. Now obviously stuff has changed. But as we go forward, we may need to adjust or at least remember where we were supposed to go because I don't think we want to What I don't think we want to do is end up with a situation like we had in 2008 Where we had all this commercial space in base village and all the commercial space and the other two nodes, but we didn't have enough and all the commercial space and the other two nodes, but we didn't build enough residential space in that first phase of Bayes Village and these guys have been struggling for six, seven, eight years. So I just think we need to get reminded of how this was supposed to all be put together. Well, the original title, let's see. Yeah. If that's going to happen, if we're going to put something like this together, I have a couple of the February 6th, I'm going to be out in the 13th is the work session. I'd like to see it in a regular meeting on that Tuesday, which would be, I might have the president's weekend, because we have a work session. You're going to be out on the work session? I'm going to be out on the work session. I think you move the work session. So are you going that whole week? I'm going that whole week? I'm going that I'm going that whole week. Let's get the work session rescheduled. The upper hospital family. Okay. The 13th, it's not on this one that they got. It's on the new 10th. So what we have scheduled is the raft system plan is what's on the draft. Yep. We're kind of coming up with another idea. One of the ideas in March, the middle of March, the moratorium for marijuana ends, and so we need to get some direction from you. We're hoping to do scheduled out discussion February 13th, I believe. And just, we hope what our plan is to come up with a recommendation, get, you know, come up with an idea and bring it to you and let you guys see if it works or not. So we'd have six weeks thereabouts to make sure that whatever goes forth Is it is what you guys want out of happen? I know we brought it up to your attention a couple times So we just put it on a schedule trying to get the discussion legal in the United States yet But certain states Yeah, but they really But certain states. Yeah. But really at the federal level. At the federal level. And so really the question is going to be do you want to continue? If that's the answer, then it's pretty simple. We wanted to have that discussion and get that direction from you all. I know how our attorney used to feel about it. Well, this is kind of what I told you, I advised you to do is if you wanted moratorium go and tell the administration turns over, we may not have pushed that out quite far enough, but we may know Monday morning. And I've already been approached about the moratorium once today and once last week. There are a lot of people interested in basically opening a pot shop in town. And their quest is that how many more tax dollars we can gain for the town. Now, I've already told them how I felt. But we have to balance. Are you a family resort or? Well, we plan to have that discussion of the 13th. We'll get some direction from you guys and how to prepare for the middle of March. But the question that I'm still a little foggy on, if I might, to try nod to analysis for February 13th. Well, Tom's not going to be here, so can that go on the agenda for the 19th? It still gets us here at the 21st. So the 21st, it still gets it in before the plan of losing. Yeah, I'm sure we can. I just, you just want us to say, I mean, if I go through the concepts, here's the estimates on revenue per square foot that exists at the time. Here's what we estimated that each room would generate, I mean, kind of go through that whole analysis and say, and here's how the magic was spun in 2004 and the decisions that were made based on that analysis. And here's my concern is that analysis, and O4, is what it is. But the parameters have changed considerably from 4 to 15. I'd hate to give you, if it's a history lesson, here's how the decision was made before that's one thing. But to say that's how the decision was made in 15, I don't think it'd be accurate. We'd go back to the two economic analysis that were done in 15. Well, we could compare them both. That's what I was going to say side by side. I mean, we can say this is how it was originally visualized in 2004, and then things that got changed were this and this. And now, at least we have some continuity up here. We have continuity of thought in terms to, you know. And I just want to make sure I'm giving you the right stuff. But if you remember, when the 15 analysis approval for the PUD came through, I mean, that was broke down. And so what I was- I'm also thinking not just of the base village. I'm also thinking particularly, particularly the Snowman Center, which is just in my vague memory, there was discussion about hotels and a whole different system, a whole different situation. It's a whole plan. And there was a whole plan. And if that hotel space, if those beds were necessary in order to balance out the rest of the situation in the mall and the village, I think that we really need to understand that going forward and actually the community should understand that going forward as we try to figure out what redevelopment is going to look like in either the mall or the snowman center. Yeah. Right. Nothing ever got approved. I know. At the center. And the center was put on hold. I want to say early, O2, but it may have been late, O1, to because they weren't going to make a decision on it until they being you. Until Base Village was envisioned, because it was the elephant in the living room. And so all those concepts, was envisioned because it was the elephant in the living room. And so all those concepts, when you hear about visions of hotels, that was after related companies acquired it. And that application was restarted with some grandiose plans for, but in my recollection, we'll have to go back and check this, that was not included in the overall economics of base village. That's the kind of thing that I want to determine. Determined so that as we go forward we're not you know we're not leaving out a piece that was originally included or vice versa or including something that wasn't there. There was also a West Village which is the mall. Yeah. A revitalization overlay that I don't think it really got past the conceptual space, space stage in terms of it wasn't really aired in the public. It was aired in front of Council on tweaks were made at staff level and I shared that with Clint a few months ago or something and it's it never got to the detail of how does this drive economic that trinonal engine so but if that's I think that's the essence of Clint's question is is that what you want those old plans that were didn't make it to fruition to enlighten you on the whole concept of trynoto? Or do you just really wanna focus on the O4 formula? Well, I think there's value in trying to understand or getting some more input on the concept of trinotal because it has come up a lot in that last week's vision visioning came up a lot. So I think that would be useful. Well, and say don't forget, we'll go in forward that next week. That is a major component of the analysis. We are bringing in Rickard Cunningham to help with that evaluation and to say, here's, I don't expect him to go back to 2004 and say, here's 13 years of history, but rather say, you're a town of this size. You've got XYZ, TURUS coming to town, your revenues are this, you're the analysis, and here's the commercial base that's unreasonable. This is at the plan of Paloza? Through that process a reasonable. This is at the plan of Paloza? Through that process, yeah. Okay. Okay. And so, I mean, and I guess we've done that when, when base village came through though, 15 approval, we did it between the mall and base village. That was certainly the analysis. And like John said, I'm not 100% sure that the center was ever rolled in, the any of that, that I don't know. It was on a broad scale in that of the tri-notal, it was clear that the community wanted the center to remain a community serving retail, and that the base village in the mall would work in conjunction to provide that visitor commercial. I mean, we said we fought, not fought, discussed a commercial covenant for probably three or four meetings. And it was very heated. I remember one of the design team, the applicant's design team walking out in tears because it was rough, but it it to remain the community serving retail. So, and then the last iteration of it was really a main street that started up here at the front door and went down and then up behind was a pretty big hotel complex with, I think it had some fractials at two on one level. And the center and the center. Planning commissioner was having employee housing on top of the wall. Yeah, I was just planning commission. We saw the design and with a massive underground entrance to the grocery store in the post office. But it was quite an undertaking. And the tram. but it was quite an undertaking. But when you talk, I don't think that ever got to the point of the economic plan review for that was integrated into what was going across the street, which was part of the problem that Council of the day put it on. Just, they convinced the applicant who was different from related at that point to put it on hold and they were They were a meeting or two away from their preliminary approval when they when they agreed to They realized that the problems that were going that needed to be solved over there affected them too much to Steam try to go on themselves. But to my recollection, that point of emphasis in the tri-notal system of community serving at the center versus resort serving on the side of the hill and the base village was a concept that a majority of the village was in favor of. That might have been to the detriment of the applicants for the snowmass center at that time, but. That's what it was. Well, I think the original applicants would have been fine with that community type of situation with some additional. And then when that ownership changed a way of maximizing that with a large hotel and a gone a lot of connect to base village came forward. So. Did I answer enough? I don't know. So who do you want? We should do. What staff just to do some research pulled together. Sure. History lesson. Yeah. And then if you want more, we'll get more. Yeah. Okay. Just go visit Purvis. He'll pull it out of his black bag. He still got some handwritten notes. Yes, he has a rounder in his car. Yeah. That will enlighten you as to how base village got to work at that. OK. Any? OK. We had a raft of meeting last week. ITSP was discussed and presented in terms of where they are in the phasing. Phase two is done. We appropriated another 374,000 or something to that magnitude for phase three, at which time we hope to see the air sage data dropped in. At the end of the day, it will be more than 1.1 million for all four phases. I know. It will be more than 1.1 million for all four phases. I know. Plus, let the upper mobility studies. The other thing, the rail banking issue and the complaint for the entire rail banking the quarter project. We're running into some snags with glimpses rings. They want to be able to have, they want to be able to break it for various subdivisions as well as roads that will be developed in that whole quarter of I-82. And needless to say, the quarter is sacrosync in terms of the rail banking statues. So it gets a little heated as we get into the quarter. There is a notion that we'll never see light rail and so therefore we shouldn't worry that much about it. But the way I see this thing, this light rail goes into Aspen, it'll go down to 82 at some point. But, and of course, the way the rail banking is legally described, it has to be a freight rail, not a light rail. So do I think freight has overcome the asthma? Probably not. Light rail for sure. Anyway, a lot going on relative to hopefully getting this quarter plan approved. So that was my highlight of last Thursday morning. I just, you know, I hate to say this, but sometimes you just think people see governmental organizations with dollar signs on them. And I am always conscious of being stewards of tax payer money. That's my comment for tonight. And after what I just saw, I'm going really. OK. I have a Nordic Council meeting tomorrow. Oh, you have fun. Yeah. And so good news is, we've got the Al Creek Chase. It's going to be really going to have a participation event as well this year. So try to get as many people out as possible. And that's going to start over at two creeks, I believe. So hopefully we can get a lot of people to just come out, make a donut. It's free, but you can make a suggested $25 donation but I think it'd be great if we can make it a real community event get everybody skiing into Aspen so I think that'll be a fun event I'll give you an update after my meeting tomorrow another than that I would like to propose that we have some sort of semi-circle or Bent tables up here I do the same thing I back up trying to see you bill and I feel like I've been listening to Alyssa half the time And I think it would be nice if we had a little bit more conversation we had two years ago or a year ago Oh, it's more than that. I've been here too and I haven't heard it. Okay, I mean, we can pull the mayor's table back to begin with, for easy, you guys can look across the least. You can put the mayor at Cleans table on it can be, you can, no, we'd move that table up there and the mayor was sitting there be two of you on each wing. That's a good idea. That would be fine. You mean like using those old tables? I thought Doug said you were looking at building a new council with maybe if you give me that's race. If you give me a blank check yes but let me do some less expensive experimenting and we can see. Actually we did that in the planning meetings we just moved the tables ourselves when they came in because we had the same issue all the time. I think seven of us. I've always complained about this. I think that's the easy solution is, you know, to take those like that. But as we do, we can make some curves in it and make it sick. It's going to see each other. Done. It's all I got. I don't have anything but we still have a meeting on Tuesday. It's coming Tuesday? On Tuesday. A week from Tuesday. Don't we have that meeting? Yes, goal setting on 24th. 2-0-6. Planning meeting. That's Tuesday. That's the goal setting. Yeah, correct. It's going to be Saturday. But you won't be here. I am for the goal setting for the following Tuesday. The 24th is right. Yes. The 24th is goal setting. Yeah. At two o'clock. I will. I will make this one. I'm going to make sure I get it on my calendar now. What date is that? The January 24th? February 24th or Friday January 24th It's on there 24th. It's there two to six. Yes, it's there. That's the day before my Okay, anything else to come before town council tonight? Clint, I didn't ask you or John if there's any reports. Okay, do I have a motion for adjournment? I'll make a motion to adjourn. A second. Thank you, Liz on support. Hi. I'll post same sign. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everybody. And Clint, I didn't respond to your emergency management. Right. I think I did originally. Yeah, and I couldn't. That's why we screwed up. Did you want to go? Yeah. It's the 17th February 15th. Do you have it in front of you Bill? Yeah. Tell me the dates. February 15th.