I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I'm going to call the meeting to order. This is April 3rd, 2017. It's a regular meeting of town council. We have a very jammed agenda this evening, so we're going to proceed. And first, I'd like to have Rhonda to take a roll call. Floatler? Air. Circus? Air. Natsun? Air. Shank? Air. Good. Air. Okay. Public comment. Do I have anyone in the audience who would like to make a public comment? Yes, please come forward. Yep, yep, name. You don't have to tell us how you are, but you know. Do you want to know? You're young, that's all I have to say. Thank you. You're good. Thank you. Anyways,, Tom Council, Mayor, Ronda. My name is Andrew Wicks and I'm the manager of Sundance, Licker and Gifts here in Snowmass at the center. Thank you for lending me your ears briefly. I know you have many topics to cover and for some of you, sorry, to maybe waste three minutes of your time. I commend the town council's establishment of the initial five-year moratorium on recreational marijuana in the town of Stomach Village. Many unknown variables existed at the state and federal level in 2012, and as the years have passed, a large majority of those issues have been resolved. I would estimate that our staff has asked 20 to 30 times per week, where can I buy legal marijuana in Snowmass? Due to the high volume of inquiries and the time it takes to explain where to buy, we create a website that maps out the dispensaries in Aspen. When a customer asks where to purchase in our village, we kindly tell them, is not available in Handome of Business Card without information. This year we have handed out over 1,000 cards. Recreational stores in our valley have taken notice of the gap to be filled in snowmass. A few days a week for the past two months, a store has been sending its van, aptly named the Canabus, into the village to fish for potential customers. They simply park at convenient and visible locations around the center and the mall and wait for locals and tourists who cannot purchase here. Those customers are then taken elsewhere in our valley where their dollars are spent. There are numerous concierge tales of guests who are driven to downtown Aspen in order to purchase recreational marijuana and end up buying their groceries, gifts, and dinners while in town. It is not just the town coffers that are missing out, but also snowmast businesses of all kinds. I agree that the considerations presented to you by John Dresser on the March 13th work session are daunting. He did a thorough job of outlining the entire legal platter. When taking into consideration the village's limited capacity for things like cultivation, manufacturing, and testing, I submit that you will find passing rules and regulations appropriate for snowmast may be much easier than you think. In conclusion, we know that a strong demand exists. The availability of legal marijuana will tighten the loop of our local economy, and you will be greatly reducing any black market opportunities. Again, thank you for consideration on this matter as I feel the time is right for this town council and out of future one. I look forward to the continuation of the discussion and I'd like to offer my time towards any citizen committees or informational groups you choose to form. Thank you. Thank you so very much. Do I have anyone else who'd like to make a public statement? Yes, Janine, come on up. Thank you, Mayor, councilmembers. I know many of you. My name is Jeanine Barth. Who are your microphones down in front of you, huh? Thank you. My name is Jeanine Barth. I've lived in Snowmass for 28 years. And I've recently been appointed as the Veteran Service Officer for Picking County. So I just wanted to explain to you, just take a couple of minutes to explain to you what my services are, and how I can help the community help its veterans. I'm a six-year-army veteran, my son is a veteran, so is my husband. I have two main duties to the veterans in Pick County. Number one is to connect them with a veteran service officer like myself or if they live out of the square to the correct veteran service officer for their county. And I work to connect them with their benefits that they deserve from the Department of Veterans Affairs. My job is to submit their claims for them and to process claims to the VA on their behalf. And that's the best way for eligible veterans to get their claims processed quickly and efficiently. It's extremely important, especially since our counties are all very rural, that we connect at risk veterans. And those veterans are some of the homeless. The older veterans, World War II veterans and those veterans are some of the homeless. The older veterans, World War II veterans that no longer have someone to look after them, we need to know that they reside in the home by themselves to do welfare checks on them and connect them with senior services if they need connections. The VA benefits include disability compensation, veterans pensions, education and training, home loans, and burial services. The other main duty is to perform outreach to groups like yourself, to other community and civic groups, and to let them teach them how to recognize veterans and where they can go to help, particularly to connect them with the Veterans Service Officers such as myself. And in many cases that can be a policeman, it could be police department, fire department, churches or any of those types of services and locations. be police department, fire department, churches, or any of those types of services and locations. So I just thank you for your time. And my cell number, if you ever need it, is 970-987-4855. And that's particular to the service officer function. So. Do you have an email as well? Yes, it's very easy. It's Janine J-A-N-I-N-E dot Barth B-A-R-T-H at Pickincounty.com. Thank you. Thank you, Janine. And while you're standing there, there's, don't leave yet. I really want to applaud Janine and your new role. Thank you. And I'd like to applaud everyone in this town who gave a lot of donations for disabled American veterans week last week. And all the work that this community put forth de graciously, welcome everyone here. There's, we gave about $26,000 in scholarships, so we were able to entertain or host several young veterans. What was most striking this last year was the largest one we've had ever here in Snowmass Village after 17 years, and there were over a hundred brand new injured veterans who had never been in this snow mass. So I was very meaningful. I know many of you spent a lot of time with them. So thank you, big shout out to our town. But I'm gonna pull something out of order here and that's in our consent agenda. I'm gonna ask Janine to stay here because she's gonna get honored for another role that she has played. But first of all, I do need approval or a motion for the entire consent agenda and we'll pull this piece out. And then honor. Do I have a motion for approval? So moved. Second. Second. All in support. Okay. Stay right there. I'm going to come over that way. Jeanine, real quickly. Would you talk so fast there for your cell number? Would you just again for the TV people watching? Would you say your cell number again, please? 970-987-485. Thank you. There were three individuals that served on our liquid advisory board, and we're not here to see any whoops. We have to do this together. Okay. That are not here. The seat, well, two of them are not here. Janine has served on the liquid advisory board since 2015, three year term, and then 2017, all the way through three years. So we, as a town, really need to thank her. Now it is, Rhonda does all the work on the liquor licensing along with staff. So, Jeanine, thank you so very much for spending your time helping all of us here in Snowmass Village. So, I'm not going to read all of this, but I'm honored to present it to you and thank you for all of your dedication, your leadership and knowledge of liquor licensing and continue to be an ongoing advisor in our town. You're a tremendous asset. Thank you. You are such a dear. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next we're going to move right on in two. The joint meeting with the town council and the planning commission. Jim, would you like to provide the lead in? We need to open that. It's not a public section. We need to open the public or the joint meeting. Mr. Kilti. Yeah, at this time we would like to open the meeting for the Planning Commission. Thank you. Who else here? Everybody. Everybody's here. Jamie Nolen. Jamie's not here. That's fine. Do you have a guess this one will be present? Cused, yes. You're recused. OK, we're ready to move forward. OK, Jim? Thank you very much. Thank you for doing that. Thank you, Mayor. This particular item deals with the enclave, major PUD amendment, preliminary plan process. And we've been the application complete late February. We had referred it out on March 2nd together comments from several town departments, districts and other referral agencies. Those comments are being collected as we speak. Although the code does require a joint meeting presentation by the applicant of the application before we move on to the Planning Commission review. And then following the joint meeting, there's also a secondary process for the town council to outline the directors for the planning commission to begin review of the application. So that's an essence of the proposal before you tonight or the introduction of it. And the applicant representatives, our Jim Gustafson, the architect, Randy Henry, also an architect working for the Z group, and then Mike Hoffman, the attorney representative for the applicant. Okay, do we have a presentation or? We do. Okay. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Michael. Long time no see. Maybe good too. It's good not to see a nature in your turning all the time right? People always say in the attorney Michael Hoffman. I don't wish an enthusiasm about the attorney here. Welcome to Snowmass. Good to see you again. Thank you. Give us a second while we get set up if you don't mind. And while you're getting all set up, John, would you like to just quickly remind us all of what the purpose of a joint meeting is? The joint meeting starts the preliminary plan in our three step PUD process. You'll recall that the sketch plan was weighed for this. You actually have seen probably some of this presentation already, the council has, when the applicant was before you to ask for waivers and deferrals of certain submittal requirements. But really what it is, it's an efficiency meeting because they get to make this presentation to both bodies, the planning commission and the council as they sit here. And then at the end, the council can either at this meeting or a subsequent meeting pass a resolution to direct the planning commission to focus their review on certain core issues. That there is a draft of that resolution in your packet tonight for the council's consideration afterwards. But it's really kind of an efficiency meeting. Do this. The applicant only have to do this once instead of in front of both bodies and maybe some dialogue between you as you Identify those core issues that can be passed on by resolution and from here The planning commission will begin their preliminary review Hopefully settling on some recommendations to make to the council on the application Then it will come to the council Thank you very much questions for John? Moving forward. OK, so the name of our client is the Enclave Association, which is the Owners Association for the Enclave Condominiums. And here's a Google Maps image, Google Earth image of the relevant area of snowmass village. And, yeah, that'd be great. So, again, here's the Onclave just off of Wood Road across the street from base village. The project was built in 1979 and 1980, and the only substantial upgrade to the project was made in 1990 with the addition of the arrival center. If you're familiar with the enclave, you drive up the driveway and immediately to your right is the 1990s vintage arrival center. The enclave is one of the original condominium projects in Snowmass Village, not to undergo a modernization project. There has been an ongoing need to carry out major maintenance and renovation work on the enclave for many years. So here's what we have in mind for maintenance and renovation work, some of which is already underway. And Gus and Randy will provide more information about this. This is just to kind of give you the big picture. Replacement of the roof, the siding on the project needed to be substantially improved, retaining walls at the car ports are an issue sidewalk improvements landscaping, the stair towers need improvements, the arrivals building and then chimney stone to improve the looks of the project. Each of those improvements is necessary and expensive. It kind of goes to the fundamentals of what a condominium project is, especially in snowmass village. The cost of soldering a multi-million dollar renovation project is substantial. And just like every condominium project, we have differing interests at the enclave. Some folks see this as their future. They see this as where they're going to spend their family time for the next 15 or 20 years. And those folks are probably fairly interested in making an additional contribution to the project. However, there are people who are not so inclined who see this as a unit. Their unit anyway is something that they want to sell. And as we all know, market conditions and snowmass village haven't really been as favorable as we would like for some time. You guys are taking important steps to changing that dynamic. That is something they're looking forward to changing. And they're also, frankly, looking to perhaps turning the unit over to the next generation. And those people are not so enthusiastic about coming up with a substantial special assessment to pay for the renovations. So this is just kind of the political reality of getting this done. So it is attractive to the Condominium Association to develop new units so that they can be sold and create a revenue source to pay for the renovation project. Michael, when you just, excuse me, when clarification, we say substantial assessment. Are we talking more than 50,000? Oh, yeah, much more than 50,000. Okay, thank you. So, Michael, how much of the total renovation cost would be recovered in these units that you're proposing? You know, I don't know that answered precisely Bob, but I think it's in the range of 30%, 35%. Is that right now? The agenda, I think what Bob is asking is what portion of the sale of the units would cover the cost of the renovation project? Yeah, I was going to say north of 50 percent and hopefully as close to all of it as the market will allow at that point in time. That's very helpful. Just in that same line, if I could ask. You mentioned some of this works already ongoing or I've seen a lot of the work being done. So if these additional condos are not approved, what is the situation for the condo association? Well, I think the answer to that is some of the work will be completed by way of special assessments and some of it won't be completed. So in preparing for this presentation I came up came upon a couple of Mark Twain conditions The first one doesn't apply to today's The first one doesn't apply to today's proceeding. It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you're a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt. I thought that was good myself. The second one does have application. By land, they're not making it anymore. And that really defines the opportunity that we have at the enclave. So this is an excerpt of the subdivision plat for parcel N from 1978. Let me point out the on. So Gus is pointing out this easement that existed in 1978 and in fact probably existed from the early 1970s, right? This is for the Woodrun Lift 11. The old triple chair. So and this is a better, a better graphic representation that Randy did for us. And you'll all remember that it went right by the crestwood. You could look down into the pool and all that fake stone they had on the side of the building there. So anyway, you can kind of visualize that easement. So in 2006, during the initial development of base village, the wood run lift was removed from physically removed, and the easement was also vacated. And so all of this space to the west of the original enclave project became available for development. And so that's important for a number of reasons. One of which is physically the space is available, but I think it's also really important when we look at the assumptions that underlie the build out table because when the build out table was first developed, there's no one considered that this easement would be removed and that this space would become available for development. And by the way, the name of this parcel that you see here outlined is parcel N. Michael, do you have an overlay for the new building on yes. Yes. Will you get that? Yeah absolutely. This is just an overview. I'm trying to kind of give the 40,000 foot description of the project. Okay so the first list was a list of the renovation work. This is a list of the work that requires land use approval, approval from the Planning Commission and town council and really has to do with kind of the substance of what we're here to do today and throughout this process. One reconfigure, reconstruct and repave the parking area. Convert the existing managers apartment and fitness room to a residential unit. Convert the existing arrival center to employee housing. Construct a new arrival center and then build five new residential units in a new building. Again, Gus and Randy will provide the detail as to those requests. But I want to identify the regulatory framework for our application. First is rezoning under code section 16A5 220. When parcel N was first annexed to the town and created as a separate parcel in 1978, the town did not require the designation of an underlying zone district it now does. So we are seeking designation as multi-family MF zoning and that we believe is appropriate, not believe town, or the council, I'm sorry. Town staff believes that's correct. We want to amend the existing PUD approval under section 16A5390. There's been some confusion about whether this is a major or a minor amendment. There are two actually two code provisions that are on point. One code provision deals with whether an amendment is, whether the amendment is major or minor. Under that provision an amendment is minor only if it is wholly consistent with the existing approvals. Clearly this isn't wholly consistent so therefore it comes in under the major amendment provisions. Then there's a question under a separate section of the code just because we want to keep it interesting as to whether it's a major or a minor amendment process. so the distinction is this has to do with the process and because we are seeking the right to build six or fewer units six in this case it comes in under the minor process which means that we'll be seen once by the Planning Commission and once by Town Council. Other important code provisions that are implicated by our application having to do with the build out table, I've already mentioned that a little bit under 16 A5 300 C4 the card discussion also because of the amendment the concepts of unity equivalency and community purposes among others will also. Michael Cain interrupt you for a minute. I'm looking over at that staff when you made the comment that the process only allows for the planning commission and the council to each review at one time. That's not what I understand because if you had originally had to apply for a waiver of a sketch plan that would indicate you are in a major PUD. So let me go back to ask Julianne, are we each planning and council? We each review this after the preliminary and then after the final? That's correct. No. No. No, are you with the dresser? No, dresser. John? Well, the Planning Commission will do a preliminary review followed by the Town Council's preliminary review. Right. If the Town Council directs Planning Commission to review at final, they will. If the Council does not elect to have Planning Commission review at final, It only goes to the town council for final. Okay. So in either case. Council sees it twice for sure. They'll see it twice. Planning commission sees it at least once. Thank you, John. Okay. I either stand corrected or I misstated. Okay. Just to get it, you know, to get it out. Okay. So we're all on the same process page. Okay, I think it was a semantical thing actually. These are the other code, you know, a few of the made-other major code provisions that you'll be considering during this application having to do with the dimensional aspects of the revised PUD employee housing requirements, parking and of course the general review standards. And with that I'll turn it over to Gus. We need to try this exercise. We'll take that out. So Mike, I always like to have a lawyer sitting next to me. But get lawyer it up here. Oh, there's a problem. Actually, that's not all these things. We need to. get wired up here. So I'm going to try to do this in 15 to 20 minutes if you don't mind me taking that amount of time. Mike has introduced some of the issues here. The first thing I wanted to point out is that when enclave was originally built it was kind of on the edge of the whole West Village area, but with the development of the base village area, it now becomes closer to the center of gravity of things, and it becomes a pretty prominent location for resort inventory, resort accommodation inventory. We looked at that slide before, just general reference. One of the issues, and one of the reasons that the association decided that they would like to and needed to do an upgrade is like many projects in snowmess that were built in the 70s. There's not a lot of curbside appeal. You can see this is the arrival experience driving right up. This photograph was taking standing on wood roads. So this is looking right up into their entryway. And it's subjective, of course, but at least to our eyes, this looks like it could use some upgrade in the curbside appeal in a rival experience aspect. Another facet of this is this was the old siding that was being replaced and you can see the deterioration, again not unusual with wood siding. This is actually the second layer of siding that was on the building. So when the association looked at it they said you know let's try to do something that's a little less weather-sensitive. And this really this along with the Curbside appeal issues stimulated the notion of a major renovation project. I kind of consider that condominium associations go through a once-in-a-lifetime upgrade after 25-30 years. They really need to do a major face lift to keep up with the times and to correct their issues and problems. And then they're hoping that that will last for another 30 or 40 years. So that's, again, the once in a lifetime upgrade that this is, which, as Mike pointed out, is a rather expensive proposition. In addition to some of those aesthetic kind of issues, there are other technical issues. These are retaining walls that extend across the entire entry side of the site. And although it's a little hard to see on this slide, these are deteriorating rapidly and they are failing. They are literally failing as we speak. And if you look carefully, you can see that the top of the wall is actually leaning out. So these are on a pathway to failure in the next few years and they need to be replaced. This is a look at how those car ports are built into the uphill slope. Another look at the curbside appeal. And in addition to the very negative arrival experience, or let's say marginal arrival experience, and with a very utilitarian kind of building configuration, there's a technical issue as well, which is that if any vehicle at all, whether it's a small sedan or a service, large service vehicle, any vehicle driving up this driveway has to do at least a three-point turn to get back out onto this road. And because they have inadequate parking, often the parking areas along the sides, illegally are full of cars as well as the car ports that are designated for the unit owners or guests. This is a plan that conceives fixing some of that technical problem and I'll just run through real fast if, but this is the proposed overall site plan which shows a new car court area that allows vehicles to actually turn around. We've reviewed this with John Melley at the Fire Marshal and this works much better, much safer from a fire fighting and emergency vehicle standpoint. But it keeps the same exact entry point off of Wood Road. So if you, I'm going gonna go through these real fast, but if you look in this upper corner, this lists the areas and what the improvements are. And this really is a renovation project. The proposed new units is the thing that the town is gonna concentrate on because that's the piece of the project that requires the most review and approval from a PUD amendment standpoint. However, the renovation project is what's driving the need to have some of those kind of revenue producing units. So the pieces of the project are replacing the roofs. Now that was an emergency situation that's already accomplished last summer. So the roofs are done. I'm going the wrong way. What am I doing here? Okay. So the roofs, if you look up in that corner, the next is the siding. We did the upper one-third of the siding because the roofs interfaced with the siding so often. The retaining wall, it's hard to see, but if you look here, that's this is the retaining situation that I was showing that's failing the rail road ties. Those rail road ties need to be replaced. In order to replace them, these car ports need to be removed. The covered car ports because the equipment that would do the soil nailing into that hillside is too large to get in underneath those Sorry Yeah, so there's the retaining wall and then because we're proposing a new arrival building here the retaining wall Extends up there and then re-engages at its existing location. So this and this are existing and this is some new retaining wall configuration. We're proposing to rebuild the car ports, which these upper car ports need to be rebuilt because they are the ones that have to be pulled out in order to get access to the retaining and the lower car ports are being rebuilt because they are the ones that have to be pulled out in order to get access to the retaining and the lower car ports are being rebuilt because aesthetically they are the part that you see from brush from wood road and then also we're proposing to add a row of tandem parking into this location to help deal with the parking problems. proposed here is repaving the existing access ways to the car ports as well as this improved car court area. It's currently snow melted. We're proposing to put in a new snow melting system that will not be any larger than the current. It actually is a little bit smaller than the current snow melting and we'll have much more efficient boiler system. Then in addition to that we have sidewalks, more incidental things, some landscaping. These areas that just popped up on the screen are proposals to improve the stair towers that exist within the complex to create some visual architectural focal points. The piece here that's just popping up is the proposed new arrival building, which I'll show you in a bit more detail in a minute. And the one significant thing about that in addition to being visible and a visual improvement from the arrival experience is it also has an elevator. Currently, if you have a unit in this west wing, you have to walk up two and a half flights of stairs to get to the bottom floor of the elevator, which is located here. So the proposal here is to add this arrival building with an elevator that comes up to the base level of this elevator. So one could come up the elevator walk over and for luggage and all the other many things that you have to haul in and out that will make it much more convenient. The existing arrival building here then is proposed to be converted to three employee housing units, one two bedroom unit and two studios. And then this area here is proposed, there is currently a small managers unit, an office area and a fitness room, that's in a very subterranean space here. So the proposal is to move that fitness room up to be attached to this new arrival building and then add that space to the existing manager's unit and convert that into a free market unit which has really good ski out, ski in ski out access out of this corner and then add the employee housing and some additional employee housing over in the existing arrival building. Then we're proposing to add stone to all the chimneys which will have a big visual impact. And then finally the part that will probably end up talking about the most, maybe not tonight, but as you review it is the proposal for some additional units. This is the existing site, and interestingly, this is the ski back trail and the alignment for the gondola that runs up here. You can see the outline of the old triple property actually extends all the way across that ski back trail and over to very close in That originally cut off this whole portion of the site, even though it's also cut off by the fact that this is the easement. This would be the technical easement required by the tramway board for the gondola. There's also some peripheral ski easements around the edges here, but this is the principal easement. So when you look at the ski easements and the gondola tramway easement, this is the parcel of land that was never a possible development area which now becomes possible. So going back to Mike's quote that by land they're not making anymore. This is interestingly right in the heart of the new center of gravity with base village. Interestingly this is a little piece of land that somehow got made. This is an open space diagram not to get into the technicalities of this. We can do that with the planning commission and with the council as may be needed. But the point here is that we exceed the minimum 25% open space requirement with these new units as well as with the existing building. And that's if we accounted all the space, we would actually be up to a 50% open space requirement, but we're just counting the space over on this side. This is kind of a dark slide, but this is again part of that arrival experience looking down the car port and just want to point out that we did some preliminary minimal work in addition to the re-roofing side with just repainting this interior courtyard side to give it a little more life. It was a typical, you know, kind of a putty colored gray looking building, which was often the case in the early 70s or mid 70s. So more life there. This is the one piece of the building that is very, I keep my fingers off of that. This is the piece that you really see as you drive up Wood Road. And we felt that this piece was very, again, just minimalistic, utilitarian way to put siding on the end of a building. So the proposal here is that to take that same facade, do some treatment, some new materials, and then enhance the car port area with new materials as well. This is the piece that was done in association with the roofing project that was done last summer and the reason we did this structure which adds some texture to the downhill facing side which is this. So we're proposing to go from this to this and part of that's already been done because we had to do this roof along with the other roofing that was being done. In addition to the other roofing aspects of the project that were done last summer, we also added 13 of these uphill facing dormers and originally that Eve line went straight across here, which really lost an opportunity for those upper owners. They individually opted to pay for their expense of adding the uphill-facing dormer and that was approved separately by the town. Again, that negative arrival experience, this is what the proposed arrival experience is intended to be with improved facade of the carport on this side. The dramatically improved landscape right at the entry, which will be a backdrop for some signage. This is the proposed new arrival building and the larger car court. This shows that larger car court with the existing stairs that would continue on up to that pool deck level, which now has an elevator up to it. And there's other things about this that I can point out in a minute. Just another view, eye level view looking at the new arrival center there. This is the backside of the arrival center building which is up at the pool level. And this is where the proposed new fitness area would go very logically, would have much more window and light and would be up at the pool deck. These are plans of that building just to try to understand how that building would work. So this is the proposed lower level which has a lobby space, a front desk area, coffee bars, some office space, and a smaller meeting space than they currently have a boardroom type space. The additional features that they don't have in their existing arrival building is this vestibule with the elevator that goes up and this space here which will accommodate the new, the proposed new boilers, the high efficiency boilers for the new snow melt system. This is that footprint of that building here. This is the boiler room, and this is showing kind of putting it in perspective how the walkways would attach going up and then extending down. This little zigzag here, as part of the base village, there's a bus stop that is eventually going to be built on the uphill side of the road, conveniently located right adjacent to the enclave. So we've proposed a walkway that can go down, actually a handicap accessible walkway that can go down to the bus stop. And then there's also located going across the street a pedestrian crossing that goes right into base village which is up here. So there's some arguments to be made. I don't know that we need to even get into any technical discussion but there's some arguments to be made that they'll this will actually become a lower traffic area once these the bus stop and the pedestrian access are added. Less need to be driving cars at least around snowmass. This is the existing arrival building that's being proposed to be modified to these employee housing units. This is the floor plans of that existing building. So this is the ground floor of the existing arrival building, lobby, office space, similar to what the new building proposal is. This is the proposal to convert that to a two bedroom unit on that upper floor, entry, living area, bedrooms, kitchen, bathroom. And then on the lower level of that existing arrival building, there's a meeting room. A modest size meeting room can accommodate 15, 20 people, maybe max. So that's being proposed to be converted to two studio units. There's already a kitchen space down there, so there's good plumbing and plumbing access. There's a separate outside entrance to each of those units. There's windows along that side, which are not shown on this particular drawing. These are elevations that are shown as if one were standing on wood road looking up at the car ports. This is the east side, which is where the tandem parking is proposed to be added and the entry area feature. This is the west side. The entry would be here, and this upper one, the entry would be here, the driveway entry. So on the west half of the parking, the entry is here. This is the existing arrival building renovated to now be employee housing and then the carport area extended across. We're adding landscaping in those areas. This is a we put this slide in just to understand that although there's close proximity even at the tandem area if one we're standing down here on brush creek road and looking or driving and looking up here, a low wall creates a visual cut off to where these cars are not visible from and that low stone wall then becomes part of the exterior architectural feature but it also provides that visual cut off line. So this is the this is that view and I wanted to use this slide to point out where that corner that proposed additional corner unit would be located has good ski out access and by adding some windows along here we can open it up enough to be a reasonably attractive and certainly comparable unit to all the units that exist in enclave right now. This is just a floor plan view of that new unit showing where the fitness room is now, the manager's unit. This is the proposed plan view of that new unit, two bedrooms, living kitchen, living area, and so forth. This is a view of one of the existing, this is actually that elevator that you have to go up to an half lights at stairs to get to the bottom of. This is the entry to the where the elevator goes up from there. So what our proposal is is to dramatically enhance the visual impact of those stairs and the elevator and use those as visual focal points within the interior of the building and not doing a lot of other upgrades to the stairway walkways, which are quite complex. This is the upper stairway. This is the proposal for an improved upper stairway walkways, which are quite complex. This is the upper stairway. This is the proposal for an improved upper stairway. This is another of the stairways and elevator shafts, and yet another one of the stairways here. So in each instance, we're using some stone and some other features, timber and glass features to visually upgrade the stairs and make them focal points. This is a view, kind of an overview look here. You can see some of the base village buildings on the right side of Wood Road, Wood Road going uphill in this direction. Here's the entry point here. This is the old arrival building, the new arrival building, the proposed new units sit here. The parking for those actually is just an extension of the existing parking but it goes below grade as it enters this point. And the notion here is that these buildings have the same dimensions, their modules, three modules that have the same rhythm, the same sawtooth design and the same elevation step down as they follow the topography down. So that is really an extra visual extension of that line. And this is looking down at those units from an aerial view, which we wouldn't see from anywhere except the drone. Again, another view looking up the hill. This is proposing to add green roofs. Let's see if I've got a better view of those. But proposal is to add green roofs to the upper car ports so that it extends the burden areas of uphill and just actually create some pervious surfaces as well as visually enhances the landscaping visually enhances the landscaping. Let's see. Okay, this is just the, these are the plan views quickly. The lowest level of the proposed new building area. So the new units sit here, except they're above this level. This is the parking level. There's an elevator here that goes up to those units. There's a little bit of storage and some stairs but mostly it's parking in that area. This is the ground level, the first level of the units up above the parking. This is the second level and third level of those units. These are elevations. These are a little more technical drawings and we've got lots of visual representations illustrations of these but from a technical standpoint These are looking at some issues like the height limits and so forth. We've gone over these with the planning staff with Jim Wallstrom And I think we're in agreement about what this means but it can be reviewed more by your review agencies and the planning commission certainly can dig into these issues more but the multifamily zone district that's being proposed for this site and keep in mind this was one of those early SPA kind of sites but now as a or I guess it was a PUD I take that back it was a PUD but it didn't have the underlying zoning so with the multifamily zoning the limit on the height limit on those type buildings is 38 feet which we we stay within the 38 foot limits and a lot of it is well below that. What are we looking at here? Just another view, Randy, why do we have this slide in here? This one does here. This is a better one for me to describe. If you were standing on the opposite side and the crestwood side of the ski back trail, this would be the height of the ski back trail road. So then beyond that is where the new units are proposed. The land form actually slopes downward from the ski back trail. It slopes down to the base of these units. So they have walk out access at the bottom. But visually, the part that's exposed, the most is the part that you see at the top there. Yeah, this shows a little bit more of the idea, the green roof notion and an overview. One of the things that was done here, in addition to adding these modules of these existing buildings marching down, was to leave a pretty good size gap to avoid having a wall of buildings from the other side. Just another view of the overall complex looking downhill in an aerial view. These are where the new buildings are proposed in brush Creek Road or Wood Road. I keep what I call it. Brush Creek is down below. And I think this might be the last slide. So that's an overview. And my understanding is this is just a way to introduce the Council and the Planning Commission to the project. The Town Council may give the planning commission some direction about what to look at now, but we can dig into all of this in much greater detail when it gets to the planning commission and eventually to the town council. So I think that's our- Let me respond again to Bob's comment about process. I'm very focused on the immediate process, which is preliminary. And that's the two step process. But you're right, it'll be a different process. The one that Mr. Dresser described. And within the Council packet starting on page 32 of 361 is a draft resolution that has been prepared. It's done by our staff report and there are several key issues. I think there's 12 of them that go from a zone district which you so carefully discussed with us. Changing that to a really getting it underlying to MF. Land use policies build out in variations, building design, view impacts, and I'm going to assume that would include the view plane from coming down from Cresswood. Yeah, absolutely. Energy conservation, restricted housing. Of course, the landscaping planting, which was what that means, drainage and natural hazards. Parking, transportation and civil plans, air quality and construction. They're 14. I only had 12 on this one page. Is there anyone who would like to discuss any one of these items or add any additional? Mark, if I could just clarify one thing you just said, which is the Crestwood View, you're absolutely right. That's the one complex that is most closely aligned and viewed from. And we have been meeting regularly with Robert Sinko and board members. Oh, Robert's there, okay. And so we were down to a few issues there that we're grappling with, but by and large, we think the visual impacts. We've got lots of visualizations from the different deck levels and different deck locations. We can get into that detail. That's not the purpose of this evening's joint meeting. Of all of these 14, anyone you want to eliminate, discuss or add? I'm happy. You're happy. I think number five, the view impact is going to be critical from the Crescent point of view. I guess it's debilding. It's over there. It's closest to the, this is the debilding. I think, no, what building's closest? G. Excuse me. Whatever building that is has the most impact. And when we see that, I think that's my concern. Any thing else? Regarding the restricted housing, is that going to run through our housing department? Is that going to be qualified through enclave employees? I think the first cut will be enclave, but they will be qualified by the housing office. That's typically the way it's done. Yeah, they would be filled by qualified town employees with the first opportunity for on-clave to accommodate their own qualified town qualified employees if they can't fill them which they will by the way but if they couldn't then they'll be available for the general inventory. And there's an existing deed restriction we are proposing is just to make the additional unit subject to the same deed restriction. Okay. If I don't hear any comments, a question? Is there any shadow effect on these new buildings on Wood Road? We have done shadow studies. A little bit. Yeah, we can, we can, we have the ability to show those studies. There is a small impact, like Arradi said at certain times. We can, uh, qualify for that, go to the news. Okay. Okay. Good point, those Doug. Yeah. There was some debate initially about this, this was a major, a minor PUD. Michael had mentioned that it's minor. Our packet talks about a major, a minor PUD. Michael had mentioned that it's minor, our packet talks about a major. So the issue is it's both. Right, well there are two different provisions. And you know, one provision has to do with process, the other one has to do with whether it's, whether the amendment itself is major or minor. And it's a major amendment in this case because the proposal is not wholly consistent with the prior approvals. However, the process is minor because we're asking for the right to build six or fewer units. I'm ready for motion to proceed. We do need a motion correct. You need a motion on the resolution if you're finished discussing that. So you have the draft resolution that's at Attachment 1. It's on 32 or 361. Mr. Circa is prepared to make a motion. Yeah, I move that we accept this resolution number resolution number 23 as provided. Okay, do I have a second? Second. Following support. Hi. Hi. Okay. It passed unanimously. We will now ask the planning commission for a journey. Say that again. We need a journey for the planning commission. Somebody's in a motion. Yeah, if I'll move. Jim. So Jim. Jim. Second. You need a second. Second. Thank you. Now you need a second. Second. Okay. Thank you very much. I want to thank you. Now you need all the support. I come. Thank you very much. Thank you for any commission. And the council will continue to celebrate. We're going to take the five minutes. Well, we reset the room. Next item we'll be talking about is NLVA. Excuse me. Thank you. Okay. Thanks you, Tom. We'll be regarding ski co-s. No. I'm going to see you. Oh, no. Hi, bye. Hi, bye. What happened to your head? No, we're good. High by what happened to your head I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm sorry. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. 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I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm sorry. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm sorry. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm sorry. Okay. We're going to get started again. We are now opening the public hearing and the first item on the agenda will be Ordinance number five. This is a second reading and this deals with a review application for special review For Sam's nab ski patrol headquarters together with a minor amendment for snowmass mountain planned unit development for summer activities, nighttime activities and other items in the snowmass mountain master development plan. This will be a continuation of the hearing we had last meeting. Okay. So the public is now open, the public hearing is open, but it's a continuation. So Julianne Dave, which way are we doing this tonight? I'll just start off by saying that at your last meeting there was some discussion regarding the overnight accommodation issue. It seemed like we spent the most amount of time on that. Particular one, we did incorporate the language that you had that had been suggested at that meeting we put that into the draft ordinance we've also you know with these uses and we know that they're kind of like a work and progress here I did want to know that those those associated towers because it's kind of up in the air still but they could be as high as the 90 feet I just wanted you to be I included that here and they will need to put that into the draft PUD or the final PUD when they make all the changes that we've discussed so far so but otherwise we have no other issues on this and we're comfortable with the way that it's been drafted. Okay. I'm just trying to get my packet open. I do have that. Okay, Dave. Dave Corbin appearing on behalf of Asman's King Company, Victor Gertens also here tonight as our Matt Keeling and Peter Santini Steve's school is not present this time. We didn't intend to repeat the presentation, apologies to Bill for having missed our show last time. I assure you it was really good. But we've got nothing more to add with respect to presentation or summary. We, and speaking on behalf of Aspen's skiing company, we have no issue or objection to the ordinance as drafted or the conditions proposed. There is one caveat. We likewise accept or can accept the language with respect to replacement of the sub-Hairgaff 16 and 17 that Alyssa brought up last time. About year-round overnight accommodations that allow for unique on-mountain experience, such as Hutz or similar structures available for public slash private use such accommodations preclude the use of private vehicular access. We agree with that. I should say that on behalf of the light family interests, their counsel David Miler, who's present tonight, asked us to propose or suggest the addition of the language at the conclusion by guests so that last sentence would read such accommodations preclude the use of private vehicular access by guests. I don't have a problem with that qualification either leave it up to council how they may want to address that addition but I'm comfortable with language either as written for our purposes or with that proposed addition. That would be on page 39 of the 361 line 145 is that correct correct well that presents a little because I've got that highlighted to talk about so what size units are we talking about one bedrooms or just yards or what are we talking about for our mountain huts well we don't have you don't have a plan yet. We say, yeah. So for our mountain huts, I really could not say with certainty. If you'd like, I'm happy to distribute how we page from the forest master plan that's been accepted by the forest service that describes everything we know about those huts or how we've described them today. The reason why I'm asking that and we haven't seen the light proposal for a long time. That means that if you had a dining room for that set maybe 10 or 15 in what ski co is proposing I could have 15 different cars going up the mountain. Just saying everybody Schringer had no but there's no qualifications on this. No, our intent, again, and referring you to this language, how we've envisioned these huts, we've proposed the potential of three on-mountain huts. Huts intended to offer, not unlike 10th mountain huts for other. The huts are intended to offer guestering winter and summer months who may not have the proper equipment or sufficient stamina to use the backcountry hut system, a similar on-mountain overnight experience. Huts are planned to be simple structures capable of sleeping 10 to 20 people with bedding and various supplies provided, such as kitchen facilities for food and beverage preparation and service. And we describe the potential of three different locations, notably in the vicinity of the dikes, in the area between slider and turkey trot and in the al-camp saddle between Sandy Park and Hanyng Valley Wall. So for talking vehicular access, what I see here is sleeping 10 to 20. If you had 20 different people, you could have 20 cars. If there were vehicular access by the guests, yes. But again, we're not proposing and we're not suggesting that guests have vehicular access. So I don't have, I suppose I don't have any intention of making that accessible by vehicles. I don't think Steve Soule does either. So for our purposes, that's really not the intent of those huts. Again, as we discussed at some length last time, any particular project we would bring before this body for a specific cut in any of these locations or of any size or of any form or shape and all of its contents. I'd have to come back to this body with a special review application and we'd go over that site and building in explicit detail and you again in any consideration or approval of one of those projects should they ever be brought forward. You can put all kinds of conditions on it, you know, no vehicular access at all, only three people, not ten people. Well, let me try, you know, let me just ask you this. It was requested that we modify the language and for us anticipating another project coming forward up on the mountain. But what we're dealing with tonight is your request. Yes. I think it's applicable. We focus on this request. I can't anticipate what the next request might look like. Understood. Okay. Well, again, as I said at the outset, I'm happy with the language is written. I can certainly live with the language is written. I think it's fine. I likewise have no objection to the language that, you know, David and Miler proposed that we set forth. I think again, in any instance, whether our proposal or their proposal for the individual parcel that they have that's sort of an inholding, again, it'll come with a very specific proposal and you'll have every opportunity to deal with that then. So if that's your preference to leave it as it is, I've got no objection. I'd if you're willing to entertain public or someone other than the applicant, I'd certainly let data speak for those. Yeah, I'm going to say it's hand-drawn and I'm going to call on that person in just a minute. Yes. Okay. I mean, sorry, I'm a little weird with the way the things are. It's in private, I mean to me, when you say, when it says private, vehicular access, it doesn't mean the people that are running the huts. I mean, it means private people. So I feel like, I mean, I don't, I understand what you're saying, and I agree with that. We're just dealing with you. But to me, private vehicular access are the guess. And anyone who's maintaining the cabins, whether it be ski co, I mean plus like you can't even get cars up there anyways. I mean maybe in summer you could definitely not. But it's not happening in the winter. I mean so I kind of look at it as it already talks about the guests because they're the ones with the private vehicle. Well this is is precluding. Oh, I see what you're saying. Right. It's precluding private vehicular access. So I mean, if ski co is running these things and they're taking up stuff by snow cat, and that's, I mean, that they're allowed to be on that property anyways. You're fine with 20 cars going up the hill. No, I'm not. I think it preclud's it's it's saying it precludes private the haicular access so that's any guest other than the people that are maintaining the huts so in the burling game thing which we're not even really talking about right now they have their own maintenance thing. That's a whole different discussion. Yeah so it says you can't go up there okay cool up there and pride. Well what's what they were, that does change it. Okay, I see Dave Miler's hand going up. Just to not be dead or something, but we don't want guests driving. Who are you? Microphone. We all know who you are. On behalf of Burling Game Cab and LLC, it owns a small inholding and we have been anticipating doing one of these mountain huts for quite some time and we'll be coming back and to see you on some other issues. But I think we agree totally with Alyssa. The reason for adding by-guess was simply to clarify that the use of motor vehicles in the summertime and scheme of bills in the winter time by the owner operator of the hut is not precluded. It's only the guests that can't use private vehicles to get to and from the hut. And if there's a better way to say it, I'm happy to do that, but that's our intent. We, you know, the owner operator does need to be able to deliver supplies, maybe occasionally deliver a guest, but we're expecting in the winter time that people will need to be able to deliver supplies, maybe occasionally deliver a guest, but we're expecting in the winter time that people will arrive with snowshoes or skis and in the summer they'll be hiking or biking. We're not going to allow anyone to drive any kind of vehicle up there if they're a guest. And I think the ski comp is the same. Yeah, we're of the same eye. I don't think there's any difference of position between us and the council. I mean, I don't consider ski co doing the operational thing private vehicular access. I mean, you guys are running them out. Well, exactly. And I think in terms of the permitted uses that are elsewhere in the PUD, I mean, we've clearly got uses that allow us to operate, maintain, service, roads, or community. I mean, I know Berlin game is not really in use anymore, but when you were taking people up there, you were taking them up on the ski co-cats, right? Yeah. So, it's a different application because ski co-has these rights, if you will, and abilities to do things as an operator, which Berlin game doesn't have yet. Well, we are part of this PUD, so our property is affected by the PUD and that we're modifying. So this use would be available to us on a special review basis. Correct. Well, because it says it's here. It's PUD Guide. We are subject to the PUD Guide. The part of the PUD Guide. Use is allowed subject to special review. To allow special review. Okay, question. Who owns that land? Berlin Game LLC. Berlin Game LLC. Berlin Game LLC. Berlin Game LLC. Berlin Game LLC. Berlin Game LLC. or not operated by Skico. The SkiCump and he has an easement to ski over it but it's owned privately. Okay. Personally I think that we need to keep these things separate and when Berlin game is ready to present their proposal. We can look at it within the parameters of the special review and if your feeling is that the special review definition at that point is it needs to be modified then the council can take up that modification at that point. Looking to the rest of these. What? In terms of, yeah, the representation is Berlin-Gay-Mell-LC. It's a separate legal entity. Yeah. But it's, I mean, you have a bunch of legal entities over in base village, but they're all governed by the same PUD, right? Okay, but this land will be governed by this PUD. Okay. But in terms of vehicular access and what the use of that cabin is, I don't know anything about it. Well, if you pass this PUD amendment here today, that vehicular use will be subject to special review and a site specific development plan for the property. Okay. Okay. And so that will go under the standards for special review. And if there were specific restrictions you wanted to put on it, you could do that through that special review process. Okay. That's helpful. I think it's okay. Okay. I think that's helpful. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm sure that you probably saw some emails and comments from public throughout the last few weeks, but it deals with the conflict between biking and hiking. And where I'm going to go with this comment, and this is what we hear, and I'm going to suggest how we might be able to deal with it, is we continue to expand the mountain biking program up on the mountain, which I think is great. It does bring summer guests and it does bring vitality into the village. We appreciate all of that work. But as we build more biking trails, many of them come down the trail and may not or may head back to base village. And that was part of our discussion last week and thank you for trying to work that through. But they also access some of the snowmice trails that are multi-use for biking and hiking. And logic suggests, as we add more biking trails, we're doing nothing within our own village to add more hiking trails that our contiguous to the mountain biking. And it would appear to me that every time we add more trails, we're increasing the possibility of conflict between biking and hiking, let alone bike or bike or conflict. So my question would be how is it or can we not put forth a pretty significant comprehensive biking hiking system between the town and ski co so we can decrease the number of conflicts that has occurred and we're hearing continued here comments versus okay we're going to add five more trails or whatever the number is and then we as a town are then having to put in more of a reactive position to our citizens who we've had more and more and more complaints and I could see more and more complaints if we don't get this behind us and get a plan in place for the entire mountain program. So that's... I mean I agree with what you're saying Markey. I think that one of the things that I thought about and I went back and looked at my notes, I think it said it was like 14.5 miles of trails. But I feel like what I remember and maybe it was wrong is that some of those are existing trails that you're fixing and maybe adding onto or changing the direction of them. I think one thing that would be really important for the community is to understand what these trails are. I mean I know Steve at the last meeting said it was a mix of beginner, expert, intermediate, but maybe so that people can truly understand, you know, are the beginner trails just going to be towards the bottom? Are they not going to affect the hiking trails at all? I mean, I think that would be very helpful in understanding exactly how the trails are going to be, you know, in terms of the existing trails and where they would sort of feed into. Like, are a lot of them going to be in terms of the existing trails and where they would sort of feed into. Like are a lot of them going to feed into where you would jump on the tomblake. Because I think that is one of the concerns that we hear most from people are the bikers on the tomblake versus the hikers. So I don't feel like we got that information last time. It was sort of more general. I don't know if there's anyone here that can speak to that. Well, we're certainly happy to speak to it. Victor can probably speak to bike trails and hiking trails, but in your packet and actually in terms of the documents that have already been submitted to the Forest Service, there's an exhaustive series of highly detailed maps for really all trails biking, hiking, otherwise, and even in bike trails by trail type and difficulty whether they're flow or not or some kind of combination trail, if they're beginner to expert, et cetera. So with respect to the submission of the Forest Service and what's on the federal lands, we've got a fairly well-established plan, if you will, that's been accepted and has a fairly well-established plan, if you will, that's been accepted and has gone through the environmental nipa process. So we have that review done, and I think, as you know, our report at last time is complete subjects to its sort of administrative appeal or objection period. So we have that plan. It is very detailed and precisely located to the point of can we or should we cooperate and add additional hiking trails or provide for additional hiking trail capacity in the future. We're happy to take a look at that. It's something we can easily do on the private lands below the federal land. So to the degree there are places down below or approaching Tom Blake or what have you that may be on the private lands. We're happy to sit down at any time and talk about integration of those trail systems, additions to those trail systems on the private lands if it's felt other hiking is necessary. And in a longer time frame, happy to look at the addition or improvement of additional on-mountain on the federal lands trails. Happy to do it. We'd have to go through again a federal process if we were to substantially add to what's already been presented. And I remember looking at some of the stuff that was in the packet and where the trail ends were and all those things, I'm just saying for the average person they read an article in the daily or the times and it's like 14.5 new miles of biking trails and people freak out because they don't know the detail behind it. And so I'm saying maybe as a way to kind of, maybe ease the public or kind of a better explanation of what it is that we're really looking at. I mean, is it really 14.5 miles of new trails or is it some existing trails with addition? I mean, because most people are not gonna go and read that the packet and study the lines and figure out where everything is. Correct. We're happy to have other public information meetings. We actually had several scoping meetings and public presentations during our NEPA process and attendance was light to say the least. Yeah, we didn't have many people. I think people don't think about it until like a newspaper article flashes that you know highlights the 14 miles of neutrals. We it's different. I want to go back to the point. We've already got conflict. Whether you add 14 or zero the point is we need and we're going to see more and more guests coming here which is great as we build out base village. We're going to have more bikers and we have more people enjoying the mountain amenities that are up in Elk, Campyri. So I think it would be wise from a strategic perspective to get on top of a comprehensive plan and looking at trails between the town and ski co and how they feed and if it means well you know we may want to think about adding another branch off of Powerline or whatever it is, I think our town staff would be more unwilling to work in your very accommodating as well, willing to work on such a plan. Yeah, no, we certainly participate in that Peter Santini here tonight already does work with the town and other stakeholders in the biking community and We're happy to continue that expand that effort Enhance or look for other ways to make those trail systems interconnected and seamless. We agree Yeah, it's interconnected and it's not more Biking but also the hikers. Yeah, I understood there. So you get the point and I think that we need to make that at One of the top priorities is we go into get the point and I think that we need to make that one of the top priorities as we go into summer build season and begin to hop on. Would it be appropriate to add a statement or clause in this resolution basically to the point of creating this joint management plan or with some title of that? You can condition any ordinance? David, how would you feel if I were? Well, I certainly don't have a problem if you wanted to add a condition that ski company would cooperate with. The town or local stakeholders on additional trails and integration of the trail system, that's fine, we agree with that. You know, I can't speak to or for the forest service with respect to the environment. I'm not trying to land the federal. I also think, but I think that in addition to the integration, I think we're talking in somewhat in terms of a management plan to reduce the effect, if you will, of the interfaces between hikers and mountain bikers from a safety perspective as looking at it as a public safety Kind of management plan. Yeah, and I I see no Coral with the idea that you know Steve and the mountain operators couldn't would You know cooperate in that with respect to on mountain activity. Yeah, Mac has his and up and Victor's pulling out all of his pages over there So Mac I mean I think one thing that we need to keep in mind is that these are purpose built bike trails. And we're not seeing conflicts between hikers and bikers on ski co-property. I mean, the VISTA trails were designated trails. Where we run into the issue is where we have the interface. And so, I mean, the obvious answer is we need more trails and that way we can disperse people in a lot of different directions. So I think that determining what that interface is and how that functions is is probably going to be the most helpful. Mac Keeling Aspen's Keene Company. Bill you kind of hit it right there what I was going to go into. This is as far as the interface between the bikers and the hikers up top. What nobody's said here so far tonight, but what's included in our original documentation is there's two and a half miles of new slash rerouted hiking trails. And those are specifically rerouted to basically take care of the conflict that used to be there between existing biking trails and existing hiking trails. Is that on the ski co property on the town property or where the two come together? That's in the Forest Service area. So above L camp for the most part. Yeah, this is where you go. There is some that is below the top gondola terminal. But for the most part, we're talking about the Sierra Club Loop where we're taking that away from the vapor trail where there's a current conflict. And then there's, I'm forgetting the name of the other trail that's up top, but Mountain Coaster would be going right through it, so obviously we're rerouting around that. And we had to keep in consideration the bike bike trails the new one of the new trails that we're building as well so. The trails are on the outside that I see is the power line where it comes down the empty zone to power line you're going down the road you can empty down into the government trail which is on town I've seen conflicts there. And then of course, Tom Blake, as they used to. And it's fine. It's great that people come down and then head on over to Tom Blake to go whatever way. But those types of conflicts that I'm referring to, and I think Billy is also suggesting, is that interface. No, and I think that, Dave, it's been very clear. Just we're more than willing to participate in kind of a group session with staff and to figure it out. So thank you. Okay, thank you very, very much. I kind of brings up the next part of the public safety area, which is in the base village. And you know, there were emails last week from the Hayden HO.O.A. from I think from Steve, the capital peak, Steve was involved with some meetings and Andy Goney has been involved. So there's definitely a, there seems to be a sense of willingness from all the parties to do something about public safety in the base village. And again, I don't know what the you know the right approach is. It sort of doesn't feel like it fits in the fits in this ordinance or I don't exactly I don't know myself how it would fit in the ordinance but yet on the other hand it would be helpful if there could be something that would from the town that kind of directs the parties to sit down and get together and develop a public safety program. So, does anyone on staff have a suggestion on how we should handle that? The one thing that I would say is that base village is a separate PUD. So that, you know, what you're acting on is one set of property, if you will, and base village would be a separate. So I don't think it would be appropriate to put it in this ordinance, but you could certainly direct staff or suggest that that happen. And look, Dejane, to correct me on this, but if there's a condition of approval that a management plan be created, I don't know that you could leave it broad like that, then you would assume the ski coat would hit all the different issues in that management plan. The enforcement would be difficult, whether the plan's adequate and whatnot would be difficult, but it would be direction from the council saying safety is important, go forth and figure out a way to improve it for all the different issues. The mayor brought up councilor Matt some brought up, you know, those types of things. Be kept abroad, we could work through it a little bit easier and just say we understand an issue that needs to be addressed. I mean it's legislated at that point, you've got it in a PUD. I think direction from the council could also do that. But putting it in a PUD would give you a little more muscle likely than just simple direction to us. So the HOA's Hayden in Capital, I think, as you just said, enforcement would be difficult. That's their main concern, though. So how do we get around that and make enforcement not so difficult? Because that seems to be the the bulk of the emails that we've been receiving is how do we enforce this. I mean, go ahead. This might be a good time to acknowledge those emails that you got in place and into the public record as they requested to be done. There's several of them as a matter of fact. I saw a few of them, but I mean you can just just think of us all of the comments that came forward relative to this specific ordinance. Let's incorporate those into the public record. All right, and I believe the clerk has copies of all those. Okay. But now they're incorporated into the public record. So kind of answer or count, that counts our goods for question. It gets difficult in that it's private property. No, and I understand. And regardless of it's being that being private property, the emails specifically state the enforcement and how we're going to handle the enforcement on their property. So they seem to believe that we are, we as in the town and the ski company, are now responsible for adding all this mountain bike mecca and how are we going to handle the enforcement of it as it grows? Is it going to snowball into something more than we anticipated? If so, we're going to have to have to have it figure out how to handle us. And you just said it's difficult, but I think we have to figure out how to handle it. And a management plan could do that. It could be as simple as signage. It could be more complicated with fine systems. It could be how simple assignment. It could be more complicated with fine systems. It could be how's the trails of the interact town? My reading from these emails, it almost appears that they want some type of, I'm going to use the word police action. So they have to pay for it? Some sort of somebody that's going to get off that bike or tell them people to get off the bike and walk that bike, and so on. So I don't know what that means. It's a safety management plan for what we're talking about is a management safety plan for the and don't go into all the detail but I think the point is the public snowmass village public trails and any I don't want to say a Jason property because it has separate ownership and we don't have a right to go in and police property that belongs to someone else as a town. Nor do we. If if if I may comment we certainly you know share the concern that everybody wants pedestrian bike direction in in base village to be safe and that people aren't running into pedestrians with mountain bikes. So we share that, have no problem with that. And are happy to participate as a stakeholder in enforcement mechanisms. However, I would point out when, and I haven't seen all these letters until just now, I'd been forwarded a copy of a letter Stuart Nathan sent in but other than that, these are new to me. But, you know, I would reiterate, we don't own Asman's King Company, doesn't by itself own the plaza at that point that's common area for the master association. So neither is that property, the subject matter of this ordinance, nor are we the owner of that common area surface. So I'm not in a position to police the common area that I don't own. So we can't very well do anything other than assist, participate as a stakeholder, et cetera, but I have no police powers, so I can't ticket, I can't find, I don't have that power. No authority, other than that. No, you have none. So those parties in the association certainly need to be before you. We're happy to participate. We likewise want to ensure that people feel safe there. There are guests as well as anybody's. So we'll participate, but I don't have power nor do I own the property that's being discussed with that particular concern. So I would like to go back and discuss the property that is owned by our town which is a matter of public interest and public safety. I don't think we get into all the mental district tonight. I think what we try to do and I think there's a willingness on both parties to work through how we can build a comprehensive safety program for those interfaces between town trails and ski go trails and really really work together. If that means more trails, so be it. Well, one of the emails we got was from Andy Gagnon and he's ready to participate as well. So I think that that's You know maybe an open table discussion once these things start happening between The those HOAs who own the property and the ski company and the town and Everybody together figure out the best solution for the safety issues that would So what would we? I would put it in with the ordinance. Right. Would we want to direct staff to gather the, to gather the, you know, the affected parties, the interested parties? No. John, how would you address, how would you suggest if we're going to do any modification within the ordinance, where should we just direct staff to work with SkiCo? Well, SkiCo and base village operator and all the parties. We're talking about two different things. Yeah, we are two different things. I don't think that we want to drag us into. So let's take care of yours. Yes. Yours first. Which is the integration of the trails. Integration of the trails. You mean the safety program? Yes, a safety program. It's for all as comprehensive safety program on the biking. I think. Well, I guess you could condition the ordinance on the applicants future participation in a joint or comprehensive townwide bicycle safety program to be developed. It's kind of Lucy Goosey, but I think from what David said here today that they would like to be in a part of that, but it's going to take a town effort and places where town interfaces with, I don't wanna call their trails private because they're on Forest Service Land. They're not, although you do have restrictions on who can use what trails and you're allowed to do that under your use permit. And there's other places I believe in town where it would be, be who the community is a whole to get together and come up with some sort of, I don't wanna call it rules of the road, but some kind of acknowledgement to try and avoid these conflicts, which seem to be growing and come up with a safety program. I don't know if any of you went to the link that was offered on how they handled this up in one of the letters up in Whistler. Yes. It didn't seem draconian to me what I saw. It seemed really more of a public outreach because this is how you have to do it. But they were pretty strict on the bicycling through like the mall area, the plaza area, and base village, those kind of places. But I don't know the ownership there. So I mean, I don't know if it's applicable to what we have here. But clearly, there's some request for some sort of comprehensive way to address the mountain bikers. It's not only coming from the base village owners, it's coming from trail users, mostly hikers, but the trail committee is dealt with the equestrian and the biking and all those things that we haven't gotten there. So I don't know how you put the onus on this applicant, but a condition that says you will help or you will participate. I don't know exactly, but some acknowledgement from them that some sort of comprehensive plan for bicycle safety throughout the town would probably be helpful. And I just throw that out as an idea. I don't think you're going to get down to rules and regulations on this and that until you have that kind of comprehensive plan and you know as you're as your poster board comes together it seems like that would be in their Bailey Wick to try and come up with and that's Parks Open Space, trails and recreation board that is that plan was recently adopted by the town and there's a board that's going to be formed to be advisory on those issues. So maybe it's under their auspices and they pull it together and it would be great to have the operator of a lot of the trails that intersect as part of that. I'm Victor Gurdon with that's my skiing company. And the one time I'd add is that between the mountain master plan, the 2015 master plan, and the environmental impact statement we're just completing. We in the consultants went through a pretty extensive inventory of all the trails, both downhill only, single track, flow trails, hybrid trails, multi-use trails, hiking only trails, a question only trails, and have that in a big grid and a big spreadsheet in all the documents, you know, talking percentages and uses in everything else. So that kind of information, that kind of study has taken place already. You know, if there's going to be a conflict, yes, there's going to be a bike ride going down, down Blake Trail when a hike is going down there and that's going to happen. And, you know, the users have to, you know, essentially acknowledge and yield to each other, like the yield signs do say along the trails themselves. But, you know, if it's a town's priority toogative to close town blank trail to biking, then that would be something that you end up doing. But I don't think we can solve that here. But I just wanted to point out that in the EIS, environmental impact statement and the mass plan, we've done pretty extensive, very extensive comparisons between the amount of trails from downhill, only high speed, flow trails, jump trails. And of those 14.4 miles in EIS, that new stuff is all that. The other 55 miles of trails that are still out there are any combination of multi-use, hiking only or biking only, that people need to be more aware about. And if we do need to make a presentation to show that map up there and kind of describe that in detail, then like David said, we can probably structure some kind of a community show and tell. Victor, within that study, and that's very, very interesting information would be very helpful to the entire community. Do you also within that study, which I doubt, look at the use on the snowmast trails of people where they feed into or no? The percentages and the quantities of the trails are quantified, you know, so number of trails. Now, how they're used and where they, where they intersect on another, it's available on mapping. But I'm not sure what you're asking. Well, you know, if you're saying that the vapor trail is used 90% of the time has 300 dryers a day. I don't know what the numbers are. And using that just as an example, the vapor trail doesn't feed into where I'm talking about. This is example of April Trail doesn't feed into where I'm talking about, but we don't know how many people choose to get off up on Tom Blake or the Paralleline Trail or the government trail, do we? I don't think we do, but we do have some kind of, just not big, but kind of general use parameters for the downhill biking trails that are lift served. I think it would be very helpful for all of us to sit down really. I mean, I think that you're going to find that, you know, 95, 95, 95 percent of the bike uses on the designated downhill mountain bike trails, you know. And in Tom bike trail is a very, is a very popular trail for both bikers and hikers. Because Tom Blake Trail was built, as you remember, as a, you know, wheelchair accessible trail, you know. And so therefore, it's got a grade that works for uphill bikers and downhill bikers. I ride the sucker uphill all the time. And, and, and, but it's also very, very, very nice trail for hikers. So I mean, that is one of the premier trails, but I would think that would be a lot of concern about the excessive use on there. But as we get more and more downhill bikers, downhill specific bikers, they're gonna explore to the other multi-use bike trails, multi-use trails. And that was our purpose for putting more downhill specific bike trails on the mountain so that those downhill bikers have more variety. So just by, I mean, in one sense, the hikers of concern could see that plan and they're going to put 14 more miles of bike trails for the bikers only. Maybe they'll go there. Maybe they'll stay there. And the most used trails will be less used by bikers than I don't know. So our point is, could we possibly get a, well, we can't get together a team between Skeeco and our talent. And I think John raises a team. Group to start working on a comprehensive plan. Yes. Okay. Do we want a direct staff to do so or do you want something within this ordinance team? I am comfortable directing staff. That's where I am. Okay. I think that's fine. Okay. Let's look at that ordinance. This is this is not quite. Oh, I'm sorry's fine. Okay. Let's look at that ordinance. This is... Nope. Not quite. Oh, I'm sorry. You're up. Last time we didn't get to talk about parking issues. Oh, yeah. Last time we were together talking about this. Dave Peckler had raised some points that based on some of the statistics that ski company felt were potential for additional vehicles that we might be running out of parking. And his comment was, well, we may have to look at charging a fee to park in the town numbered lots. Well, I think before we do that, we should be considering charging having a fee in the base village lot or having SkiCo handle some type of a shuttle service or something to that effect or some other option. The reason I bring up the base village is because we had a couple of emails from again from base village H OAs requesting that the the base village garage be able to charge a fee well As as I guess a little background because I spoke with Clint about this earlier, the original base village PUD in the 2015 version both state that the parking garage would not charge a fee during the summer. So, at this point, the base village H.O.A. I don't think is capable of making that change on their own. John, is that correct? There's a parking management plan. Plan. Okay. So, the council could review that parking management plan and potentially change it. So what I would like to suggest is that we request staff to put this on an upcoming agenda and give us a background on the wise and wherefores of this parking, you know, parking fee issue and let us discuss it and see if we feel we should make a change. I think I could probably accomplish that under 90 seconds. If you want to go forward with it now Go for it. Okay, the parking management Talks about self-parking in in the lot and that it will only be charged for during ski season and non-ski season and after six p.m. It will be free and the reason for that is shop owners and manager sorry I skipped a line there. By eliminating paid parking after 6 p.m. and during non-ski periods visitation to base villages encouraged. So that's the applicant saying we don't want to charge during these periods in a town of green with it in order to encourage visitation to base village, which in theory is vitality and vibrancy, which are the overall buzzwords since 2002 when this project started. And that is not a part of this PUD. That would have to be an application to amend the base village PUD. Absolutely, absolutely. Which is more or less why I was suggesting that at another council meeting this subject we put on the agenda for further discussion. But you're going to open up all the PUD. I mean if you discuss it and come up with a recommendation how do you then judge an application? You've already stated what you want for someone's private property. Is the council? Is the council have the authority to change a PUD? to change a PUD. So we have the authority to do it. You're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're got here 90 seconds plus another 10 minutes. I think that's what you're saying. Well and also and also to give Also to give people who Want to support Than then no parking fee and opportunity to come in and talk about it They have that right at any time. Okay. And if they feel strongly about it, they can file an amendment to the PUD that they live in or own in. I said, are you suggesting then that the, that the base village H OAs who are, who are proposing this to come in and file, to file an amendment on their own? If they want. Okay, you heard that. You heard it. Okay, anything else relative to this ordinance? Yeah, I do want to put, I would like to include something in here that if parking, you know, if parking becomes an issue, because of the number of cars that are coming in to use the new trails and so forth, and it's requiring substantial changes on the part of the town that this subject of parking can be brought back out and for some discussion between SkiCo and the town for some type of resolution. Wouldn't that be normal anyway? Is that normal? I don't know. Is that normal? I don't know. Is it normal? It's like winter. We go into the operations for the play-in and tune in terms of parking and everything else. It seemed like you'd do the same thing for some reason. Well, Steph recommends in the recommendations on page 47, okay, that the applicant should be aware that the satellite lots owned by the town which currently provide free parking, unrestricted parking may at some point in the future become fee-based or restricted by use or otherwise uncovered at the discretion of the town. And now that we have our new parking vehicle in place, we've discussed this that we have the option at some point in summer whether it's Thursday night concert or something else that we could put this in place. So I think that's basically Julianne is that correct? Is this what the staff is recommending? Yeah it's heads up we might need to change the way we do business but we don't know that that's not satisfactory to me because in my opinion the town shouldn't be the town shouldn't necessarily be the one who is charging a fee for parking because these additional because these additional mountain bike trails and other facilities are creating an increase in parking and all of a sudden the whole town doesn't have enough parking. So I'm not real sure what you're suggesting. You're suggesting that the HOA Hayden Capital PPP, those people involved in the broad. No, no. No, just public parking. This is public parking. I'm not talking about that now. OK, now we're in some different subject. We, this is a very successful program. Okay, we get a lot of people coming up and running on these facilities. So we don't have a rodeo lot. We don't, we run out of parking. So just like we do on Thursday nights, we use the rodeo lot. Let the people come up from the rodeo. Are they doing the intership? Okay, yeah, but that's, but that's a, that's a cost to the town to use the rodeo lot and to continue adding additional, it might, it may be across the town, but in the same token, we have this influence of X amount more people coming into town. I get that. Right. So I get we should absorb that cost to just move forward. That's fine. Okay. And you know, well, you also get the, there's another part of this we need to think about. People come into the town and it creates more vibrancy. It increases the usage of the restaurants. I don't know too many mountain bikers. I don't come down and pop in and have a beer. Oops. They're not drinking water. And I'd probably stop and shop. So I think there's a quid pro quo to encourage people to come and enjoy. There's a reasonable balance. Yeah, I think there's a very reasonable balance. Do we know what it is? No, I think we can track summer, you see it. Okay. Summer sales tax. We should be good to go. How about the rest of you? Well, we have a system in place. I mean, if the, if mountain bike becomes wildly popular, we go to the same system we can't use in the winter during the summer. So I don't see it as an issue. I agree with that. Okay, so, okay. Ordinance number five, series 2017. Do I have a motion for approval as written? Motion to approve, as written. Oh, we have a small modification. Correct, we do. Did we modify that one? No, no, that's excellent. No, we didn't accept that. We did. No, it's not exactly as we were either way. Okay. I didn't think you accepted it. That's what I thought too. Thank you very much. Okay. I'll second the motion. Thank you very much. Since this is a second reading, a roll call round. Butler? Yes. Circus? Yes. Maxon? Yes. Shink? Yes. Good. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, you're an enormous. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Okay You can close that public hearing now. Oh, we can't wait. I will at this time close the public hearing and thank you all for being here To participate in the conversation about what's happening up on the mountain to participate in the conversation about what's happening up on the mountain. We do not have a legislative public hearing tonight. We will be moving into the potential roundabout structure and while people get set up, we'll take a five minute break. Madam Mayor. Yeah. You may want to finish up your consent agenda. Oh. Because there's a second reading in there. The consent agenda will require a roll call vote. Is that the planning of building a part of the room? No, we just adjourned for five minutes. Well, they cleaned up. We'll do it so we come back. Thank you very much. I forgot. What am I missing? Why did you buy that? No, I said just a group. We'll do this since we reconvene. I think they only did the rest. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm sorry. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And particularly we have a second median of ordinance number nine. Do I have a motion for all the other items in the consent agenda? So moved. Do I have a second? Second. And ordinance number nine, roll call please. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, thank you. We're now moving into discussion regarding the potential roundabout sculpture. This is a discussion this evening. I Made the motion on the we jinxed but Tom can have it You can have a second This is forfitting up their second given it to me. Was Bob. Okay, moving forward. This is a further discussion regarding the potential roundabout. I do know there was a person that is a person here this evening that wanted to make a public comment. Nancy, did you want to come up? She needs to leave within the next few minutes. Nancy Genshiya. My name is Nancy Genshiya. I'm speaking also on Wolf's behalf. And we just feel this is the coolest thing. This, we saw a picture of it a few weeks ago. And we are so strongly in favor of this iconic statement to us. It represents so many things. It's the mountain majesty. We had heard that it had already had a name that seemed most inappropriate for us for snowmess. But mountain majesty is one that we would think of. To us, it brings snowmess into the 21st century as far as having a focal point, a symbol. We did have the old snowmess estimate leaf thing forever and ever ago. But this is current. The material is current. The image is current. It's powerful. It has movement. It has vitality. It's something people could recognize and have the symbolic statement for SNOMAS. It doesn't get in the way, it reflects the mountains, there's really not one thing that we feel isn't outstanding about it and we just strongly urge you to consider the iconic value of this artistic piece that would be here for decades and decades and decades forever reflecting the mountains because that's ultimately what most people come here for. And we just are strongly in support of it, and we would urge you to approve it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Klan, are you going to lead tonight? Yes. OK. So this is a continued discussion on a potential donation of a sculpture that Ms. Gens just reviewed for you? We'd at 5 o'clock tonight or sometime late this afternoon, we've got an updated Photoshop version of it that's on the screen. The previous Photoshop version showed the actual clay model and they took that and were able to add the stainless steel appearance. So just a little bit of background, the council first saw this early in March, March 6, I believe. Following that meeting, the council asked the Snowmass Arts Advisory Board to look at the piece, the Snowmass Board had seen it. Before that March 6 meeting, they then reviewed it again, more formally on the 27th. Through that 27th review, they did recommend approval of it. And they asked for a couple of stipulations we put with that approval. They wanted a little bit of time for the community to look at it. They asked that the Planning Commission review the sculpture. They asked a couple other issues along the lines of asking the sculptor to come and talk to the community and I'm reading my notes, sorry. There's one more on skipping but I'll read fast. So another number of requests from me is part of the recommendation for approval. Since that point, I've had the chance to talk with the, what I've in the staff report I referred to as a lead donor on can these things be achieved. The updated Photoshop we received today, I know the Hines has got a piece of the steel that would show some of the, what the stainless will look like, it'll show you in just a moment. One of the requests was to have a mockette created. That mockette can't be created in a reasonable time. It takes several months to get done. And then the opportunity to get the artist's tears is not as readily available. I think the sob thought it might otherwise be. And then the lighting, the landscaping can certainly be addressed. And so after tonight's meeting, this meeting was scheduled to review the updated photoshop version of what's before you and let the council weigh in on the recommendation or make a decision with the recommendation from the sob. I think what when you go through all the issues that we laid out in the staff report I mean I think we understanding the staff's recommendation that it should be accepted. Our thought was that if the council could continue to review this for two more weeks, we can make sure it's prominently advertised to the newspapers on the web so that anybody that wants to offer their opinions can and then the council can make their official decision one way or the other on the 17th of April. In your packet there's a number of letters that we received over the last several weeks, including for your review. Obviously the majority or support we assume that that support will maintain throughout but we thought two more weeks of input would help you in your decision making and would be in line with this recommendation for the sub. I have just a question relative to some items that were in the sub. And there's a lot of conversation in notes from emails all about process. And we don't have a program now to accept donated pieces of our correct. We do not have an adopted, no. We have nothing formal. So what we could do is say, OK, this is a wonderful learning experience of what we need to do going forward and assign that task to get it done. Because I know it's been, we've had this conversation before when I said on council, and it's still not done. So that could be something that we would direct staff to get done with Sober, whomever. Yes. There's another question that came forth today and I called John because who is a snow mass village community found? Can you tell us some history on that before we go go into looking at a few things? There's actually two conflicting, I don't want to call them conflicting. Like-minded, there's the Snowmass Community Foundation and I don't think that's who you're dealing with. I think you're dealing with the Snowmass Village community fund. The Community fund was established in 1992, basically to promote arts and it within the village. And they started out as the 501C3 sponsored the concerts on the Hill and they've done a lot of other things. They've kind of acted as a catch-all tax deductible entity to promote the arts and community building activities. And in 2008, there was the Snowmass Community Foundation. And that was as a result of the dissolution of the SVRA and some documents we got said to community foundation, but I think Hines is dealing with the snowmass community fund and that is David Miler's the attorney and there's a member on the board from Alpine Bank and there's a couple other people on the board from around the village. This was kind of the former mayor's baby and I should go back actually a couple of mayors. Doug Mercatoris, Merck, started this a long time ago with a guy named Terry Long and they've done a lot of good work over the past 25 years that they've been in existence. So that's who Hines is delivered is working with. So that is the tax exempt entity that will be the donor of this sculpture. Okay, that's very helpful in clarification. Okay. Right? You want me to expand on that? Well, thank you for being here this evening. My pleasure. And work is so hard on moving this project forward and all of your patients. Thank you. Following up with one John just said I'm dealing with Drew Dietrich who is Vice President of Elpine Bank and also the President of the Community Fund and we have apologized for the fact that the term terminology of that organization has been used loosely. I was given the impression that it was the community foundation, but it is a fun. And they have 501 C3 organization and we are funneling our donations to them. And then the effect will be legally the donor to the town. Okay. Shall I go on with other things? Any questions relative to how the money would do? No, no, no. In response to some of the questions and suggestions that came forth from the sob board. I asked the artist about creating a macaque. He described to me the process, although I don't really knew that. And he says, you know, I got to make a form, the form's got to be going to the foundry, the foundry got to pour the metal, the metal got to be put back together, then it comes back to me. I got to finish it. I mean, you know, polish it and all that kind of stuff. And it would take two to two and a half months to do that while I really am working on the piece itself. By then we can probably see a picture of the piece sitting in his backyard. So I couldn't do that. He says the only thing we can do is redo the Photoshop picture. And on the phone today, he told me I apologize for the fact that that does not look any more than steel, but it's the best we could do on short notice. Then the other question was for a piece of, and by the way, the artist came down here just to meet with a sob board. I apologize, but he comes from South Dakota. He's a nationally known artist. and he just, you know, he's the nicest guy to work with and he's so cooperative, but there's a limit. However, he sent me a piece of steel, which I'll pass around in a minute, or maybe Travis can do it. He put several finishes on this piece, and this is just some examples over as possible. I ask him on the sides of these elements that are supposed to be symbolic of ski runs to do a linear treatment in order to indicate speed and movement. And on the rest of it we can go plain, we can go with a mixed pattern. All I was trying to show is the fact that this is not going to kill anybody driving by plus the fact that the bulk of this metal is above the sideline of any driver that comes around there. The other suggestion that he made or offered was the fact he says I could sandblast the major the element that goes down into the ground and into the foundation and that would not have any reflection at all which you be kind enough to pass this around and let people see it thank you very much appreciate it I left no water bottle, I'm sorry. We get a little dry. I got all kinds of problems when you get to be as old as I am. So if you look at that and then we can have commentary on questions about that. What else did they want to know? Those are the two big ones, right? So the guy that he sent, the artist sent to the UPS to ship this thing failed today. He did that on Thursday to say overnight. And the damn thing arrived on a truck that left Glenwood Springs today at 7 a.m. and we're almost at the end of the line in delivery, so he got here at 5 o'clock. But anyway, here it is. So, where we're going next? So, Heinz, in terms of weight, is this about the weight? This is the weight of the metal he's using. Wow. It's very expensive. And it also, you can't oil can or wave or do anything like that. It's substantial and it's the best stainless steel you can buy. Now I learned something in a conversation the other day about the three rings outside. And I'm disappointed because they were originally meant, I'm told from a person that was on that board at the time, that they were meant to be stainless steel. But when they started to price it, it got so expensive they couldn't afford it. So I'm sorry there isn't a previous stainless steel item in the in the in the community. I somewhat remember that because I was sitting on the review and approval at that time. Yeah. Go ahead. These these Go ahead. These grinding patterns that are on there, are they the ones that he wants to use? Well, as I pointed out, the linear one at the time. This one here, yeah. I suggest to go on the sides of the elements that are supposed to be like ski runs. He runs, yeah. Just to indicate some motion and some speed. Right. And on the other hand, there are a million different varieties of various things you can do. Well, yeah, this one on that backside kind of to me can represent, almost represents, you know, mountains or hills or something like that. But I don't know if that's what his intent is. I can't tell which one you're pointing at the... The... The... The multi-tank. Oh yeah. That one. Okay. This just looks like regular, pretty much regular stain. That's kind of standard, yeah. Yeah. There's some buffing to it though. Yeah. There's a little pattern to it. Yeah. So, Heinz, you said the best stainless steel, does he, does he know what the nickel content of the stainless steel is? I haven't asked him any of them. Because that's going to make it the best stainless steel. I mean, it's got a number. You refer to stainless steel 312 or 312. Yeah, he refers to numbers and all that kind of stuff. They don't mean a thing to me. That's why I'm asking. So you want to know what the number is? I want to know what the nickel content that he's referring to as what- I call him tomorrow in actually now. Yeah, I mean, no. It's a, it looks great in here, but as the weather gets it, that's where the content the content. Well, you haven't heard this part of the conversation before, and most of you probably haven't. We went through a lot of conversation about the material. What should we use for the piece? And considering climate change is free, this sun, exposure, and maintenance and keeping it clean. I have bought a lot of sculpture for public parks and also for my personal use. In Texas sun, of course, that's different from what's here. And we found long term that the easiest stuff to take care of and the best to maintain and the least care and cost of care is stainless steel. So we figured in these weather conditions with the temperature changes and the intense sun and all that stuff, it probably was the most likely thing to use. Oh, it's a, I think it's a great product. It's beautiful. Heinz, what do the rocks represent in that? Skiers. Well, they represent skiers? Yeah. OK. That's what they were meant to do. I mean, it's very free for me. Yeah, no, I understand. It's very symbolic. There could be groups of skiers. There could be individuals. OK. I understand. One of the emails we got on that rock was a question of what kind of rock was it? What kind of rock was it? It was River Rock. River Rock. And I was going to suggest to him that he found a lot of black river rock around here. That he tried to find black river rock. I haven't had that conversation yet. I wanted to hear what you have to say about that. I think black is a good contrast to the steel. Can I see one steel? Can be from black skiers weak. You could do granite. You could do granite. I was a bit more of a guy. The brotherhoods. Well, you can't ingrown it. You can't, I guess you could, if you go through enough work, get the smooth slick finish that river rock has, it's very. Well, you know, I'm not the designer. And one thing I sometimes we over try to engineer somebody else's work. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. Yeah. There was a question that actually came up in a discussion this morning and the council had something to do with the two to make me think about it is, if this is proved, will this piece of art be exclusive in regards to will there be more somewhere else or is this just gonna be for Stomach's vote? Dale, I mean Dale does, every one of his works is a one off. It's a one issue because it's manufactured individually and what you're referring to probably in a lot of bronze casting and stuff like that. And they make a form as I just described while I go about the little sculpture. The sculpture, that process is very expensive and the forgery cost is the foundry cost, excuse me, is a very large component of the cost of those kind of pieces. So they make forms that they can use multiple times, and they can cast again out of the same forms, and thereby get a little more revenue out of this. And then you have famous. I said to 25, 12, 8, or if you're remaking them, they do hundreds. There are so many remikings around now that you have no idea whether they're real or not real or whatever. This is one piece. It belongs to you. You have not retained any copyright. You can take pictures of and do all that kind of stuff. Initially I was really concerned. I see this on a black shirt like this in silver at the high selling garment, snowmast, and then the title. I'm not trying to figure out and I talked to Clinton, John, about that, about protecting the image in such a way that it wouldn't be just cheapened. But in the end, after we considered all the opportunities and the problems I gave up, I said, it's yours. I think John wants to name it Blue Cruiser or something. I think that's a few of them. So no, it's a one-over kind. And you can take pictures as the agreement or the draft agreement between Clint and I outlines as you can use it for whatever promotion or material. I frankly think it's going to end up being on promotional material for the time. But that's maybe I'm dreaming. I mean, you come up with a new image now in a new symbol, and it's not the same old stuff. They've been buying it every t-shirt shop. It's a new picture. It's going to sell. I guarantee you. Which brings me, go ahead. Go ahead. Which brings me to the name. The initial name that Dale came up was double black diamond. When my oldest daughter looked at it, she was pretty savvy. She said, dead. Snowmass is not known for its double black diamonds. It's known for a lot of blue runs and all that kind of stuff. So. And Kebi kindbi did the interview with me. My second daughter, who was a teacher and asked me and came along the other day and said, I had my students out to ski out here and most of my students want to go to the Deaf Flag Diamonds and the wall and all that kind of stuff. In the end, I talked to Clint about, you're talking about getting the community involved, put this thing up, let the people chew on it, and then I would hope through the town and your communication lady and all that to do a public contest or input or election for the name of it. I wouldn't leave that wide open. I personally think you would point a group of four or five people who would value the names and then select somebody. And I can come up even with a prize for the winning donor. So the thinking of the name is, I mean, I don't know about the placement, but is there a space on the roundabout where there's going to be a section where it says what the name is and who is designed by? Good question, because I was going to bring that up tonight. We hadn't talked about that. The donors want no credit, no public mention, at least not the medal or award of stone or whatever. I think it's typically what happens in a case like that when you finally decide on a name that the name of the piece we put on there and underneath it the name of the artist and the year it was created. That's sort of typically what's done with this thing. So then the question arises, what do you want to make that sign out of? Is it more stainless steel? Or is it maybe a piece of, I can see a piece of dark black granite or something like that, was engraved signage, was color filling and something like that? But then it brings up the next problem. What do you want to do or not do to, you don't want to slow the traffic down and you don't want people to stop and read. So should it be in the ground about or should it be over the side somewhere or we need to give that some thought. But until we actually accept this thing and really get going, I mean, the thing is being built, you know, one way or the other. If it's not coming here, it's going somewhere else. But those details need to be discussed. The signage thing for instance. That would be the signage in the planning commission. And is the signage the responsibility of the town to have, I mean, who's paying if you're doing a granite sign? I mean, that's like an expensive thing. Well, we know Patrick Keltey has already donated his service to build to do the foundation as another gift. Is that correct or did I miss represent? I think we're donating the concrete for the foundation. Yeah, concrete. The design will be. But we had costs in there to pay for something, which was the $12. We have $12,000 in our budget to cover all our installation costs. I mean, to answer your question, I'm sure we could work through it. And if it took six months to get the name put together, then we could budget. We can, we have ways to get the sign that I'm not worried about that. It's more of the process and the acceptance is the bigger issue. I mean, kind of just pointed that out. Once that decision's made, everything else can fall into place. Okay, so something high in time before you were talking about, you know, you don't want people obviously stopping in the roundabout to read what the name is. So one of the emails we got was about safety and about people trying to get into the roundabout to take pictures with the sculpture and all of these things. And I know there was an email and Anne Martins was copied on it. I mean, Clint, I guess to hear from you, I mean, one of the things they say is often roundabouts are mounted or heavily planted to avoid driver confusion. And you you know this is going to be maybe more open because the sculpture I just I don't know the answer to the safety thing. We don't have any safety concerns. Okay. I mean there's there's art and roundabouts all over the country all over the state. The safety is not a concern. I think one of the bigger issues though was we had such a small space to build anything on. I mean it's like nano. Right. And that's part of the reason we don't have safety concerns. We've gone through all the sight lines. We've looked at all those issues. When this roundabout was designed, it was designed knowing that something significant could go there. And so that's why I'm confident in saying we don't have safety concerns. But it's a 12 foot area, right? I don't recall. I mean, it's not large. I don't remember the dimensions. I mean, 12 feet's pretty large, so. Do you mean the area that we're building in or the area that? We'll be area that we have allocated for art in the middle of the roundabout. Well, what I was told when we met was Ann back in September, and she showed me the drawing. She told me the first 10 feet is visual corridor for the driver, so you can't do anything higher than 4 feet, or you can't come down from the top any lower than 7 feet. So we rolled that off. And one of the reasons the piece looks like that, and ends up in one small, for one small foundation because there's virtually no space for the foundation. Because once you get to the inside area of 10 by 8 I think she said, then she informed me that that is an easement for the water department, for the water to which people, and that they have a major water pipe running through the middle of that. And when you have an easement like that, that typically means you obviously can't build on it and you can't impact it so they can dig a hole anytime they have a pipe bust or anything like that. So we ended up with a little area about two or three feet around that that we could put the foundation in. And one of the reasons he designed this piece like that and a single foundation that said he envisions that they pour and he's going to drop a foundation plan and then we'll give it to the town to give to the engineers to approve it and change whatever they want to change. But basically they're talking about building a pouring in a 14 or 16 inch pier as deep as soil conditions and all that dictate. And in the middle of that, leave a void and for a pipe, for a large piece of oil, a big pipe. And then he will put a shaft at the end of this piece that goes down into that hole and then he fills the play where you will the void between the shaft and the pipe or the opening with some concrete slurry. We think that a lot of the pressure on this piece will be outward rather than down. And you know how thick the concrete needs to be, the engineers need to decide based on the pressure they calculate. The latest number, I said 5,000 feet, or I'm 5,000 pounds originally, but he told me the other day it looks more like 3,000 pounds. So that's helpful. And by the way, the inside of that piece, that metal, that's just a surface. Once he manufactures all the individual pieces and he was getting close to having that done, Manufacturers all the individual pieces and he was getting close to having that done Then he builds a bone structure with upwards a an armature a pipe system that goes inside of that to stabilize it and and give it the rigidity that it's gonna need for high winds and all that kind of stuff So it is well thought through the man has built I man has built hundreds of sculptures of every size. And he knows what he's doing. And the work I've seen for him has been superb. And not only that, but it's easy to get along with. What were we, what were the, I lost my thought. What's next? What are we doing? I had another question. It was, yeah, what was it? Oh, is the, so that, the piece, that sample piece, is it going to be out for people to come see? I'll leave it to you to do whatever you. I think it's very important because I feel like one of, you know, some of the, you know, statements you've got from people are, it doesn't feel like the mountains, it's stainless, so it feels more not as warm. And I think Bob pointed out when he looked at it, it kind of has that texture like the mountains. So I think it's important if people really want to get a feel of what it's like, because you're not going to be able to tell from there that you come and see it, they come to town hall and look at it. Yeah, you can put it anywhere you want to and do it as you see fit. That's fine. That's what we got it for. I'm sorry it's not bigger. So I had a question in terms of the legal agreement which is kind of hard to read right now because I know it's still in process. The legal agreement, yeah. I didn't even know which version you got today. It tell me which version they got because Bob was quoting it yesterday and I didn't know why I didn't know how to address it properly. There, this, the copy that he gave you, he tells me, I'm still seeing it, is the latest changes that I gave him. There were a few things I objected to in his original draft, he did the original draft, and then he said he also needs to have it reviewed by the attorneys. So it is not final, there is no question about it depending on what conversation and what arguments come out of this now. So the question that came forward, and it was hard to read what was in the packet, and that can be, can't be due to my eyes because I have new eyes but it was blue ink or something pale blue ink. So let's say that it goes into the roundabout and for whatever reason that would be the primary site that it would go into. Let's say for example well it's not exactly working as well we had planned right with the town have the right to move it to another location at our expense the way it's absolutely the way it's written now is you absolutely have that right okay that's what I thought but I just wanted to make sure we see there's a term I think we use the word equal prominence so it needs to be a campaign to store room someplace or. So it needs to be a campaign to store room some place or behind the building. It needs to be equal prominence, but that's the town's discretion to choose what equal prominence is. And the only reason that I insisted on that is because I want to retain the dignity of the piece. I don't want it to be lying in a warehouse or whatever. And this brings forth, it has nothing to do with a beautiful donation. We in our town have not always done a good job of maintaining and keeping our public art the way it was intended. I agree. There is a piece down by Horace Ranch that was very different in shape. And when it was taken down, it was kind of put on the ground and it never was restored to what the artist intended. I'm aware of that. And I would hope that any of our public art, which I think is extremely important to the future of this village, to make a statement about our value towards public art or whether it's performing arts or what have you it be maintained. And we, Cherry should, we maintain it as it was originally donated to us to the extent possible and we've got to have a better process because I hope one of these days we can get the piece down to horse ranch taking care of. You talk about the blocks, right? Yep, the Nancy 11 good piece. I remember it when it first put in and I get it was removed to build the bus station or something. Yep. And that whoever put it back didn't know what the hell it was. Of course. So some of them. We have a paragraph in there that addresses maintenance and appearance. And I also was concerned and talked to Clint about protecting it from vehicles driving. You know, we get a two o'clock drunk bar turn there or something like that. We don't want him to pile into the thing. And I was told that the way the thing is arranged and the way the traffic is directed, the town's not really concerned about that. But then the other day Mary Ann Martin said to me that she's talking about some boulders in some places, right? That's correct. Anything I say is not meant that any criticism about Clinton has been very cooperative and very helpful. The EPO is part of the landscape. Related East West Partners still owes us landscape. So if the council were to accept this, then we will modify the landscape and the modification will be kind of bolder instead of concrete ballards to protect the peace. Bob, you want to make your speech? concrete ballads to protect the piece. Bob, you want to make your speech? Well, I guess there's one part of the proposed agreement which bothers me, which has to do with the length of time that's as stated now that the piece would have to be offered back to the artist if the town decides that they no longer want the piece. And I think the way, as I said to you yesterday, I think that once this piece comes up, if there is a change of heart or mind in the community, we'll know about it pretty rapidly. And if it is significant enough that the town, the council feels it's necessary to make a change. I think we would know that really pretty soon probably. I would think a year's time should be plenty of time for us to know if we like it or we don't like it. And after that period of time, if future councils or future situations dictate the fact that we need to do something else with that piece, then it should be up to the town to be able to do it. The town should have the ability to do what they choose to do with that piece. Otherwise, it sort of strikes me as it wasn't really being donated, it was being loaned. So I'm going to leave that honestly. I'm going to leave that for John, or for you. The only reason, the only reason any language, you know, I don't know, you remember what the final language is. It's not final, but the language is in there now. It's opened the further negotiation. Our only concern is we don't want it to be sold to a junk shop or a smelter or anything like that. It's like I give you a nice horse and you say, well, I don't want it anymore. I'll send it to the slaughterhouse and make glue out of it. I'm trying to retain the dignity of the piece. I understand. I know we're talking about something that, at least as I'm concerned, I've been coming here for 30, 40 years is ultimately a very rare occurrence or possibility. I think the piece is going to stay there. I think there are going to be enough pieces people who are going to love it once it's up. And I want to caution you about one thing. And that is the fact that the people that don't like it and that have negative comments about it tend to be the most vociferous people in the community. There are going to be a whole lot of people you never hear from and then there will be some that just are crazy about it and actually go through the trouble of expressing it. But on anything, the people that want to complain are the ones that show up. And I think you need to be careful about measuring that four emails don't represent a significant part of your population and things like that. But I'm very happy to entertain the fact that if you find that a majority of the people in this community are based on some measurable value, don't like the piece. And you decide you'd like to get rid of it. We come in a year and pick it up. And all we ask for you to give us the same help, getting it back on the truck that we got when we put it in Well as I say You know that's something for John and for you to work out. I think that it's you know However that that turns out will probably be be you know fine Certainly fine with me. I think you understand what my you know how I felt Don't I still wanted on any circumstance. I understand. Just trying to send it back to the artist of that occurrence. Because if we take it back, there's a reversion clause and that defeats the 501c3 situation. Right. I understand. OK. So that donation agreement that's in the packet is not the most current donation agreement? It is. It's the one I is gave us on Thursday. There's still working through all of it. Oh, because there's mistakes in this. Oh, we know. But it's the version that came back from his attorney. And I just wanted you to see the most recent version. So you know there's mistakes. Absolutely. Okay. So I think it needs to be worked through. It was just been in there to say here's the kinds of issues we're working through. It wasn't meant to be. Maybe it just kind of, here's the big stuff we're trying to do. He wants to take another three months to finalize it, but I hope we can accept it. He's returning. I've had it for four days. I'm going on sabbatical tomorrow. So, I don't hear what I hear tonight is, oh, we're still working through a process, but I think there is support to move this forward to having an approval for us to review at the meeting on the 14th with a revised 14th or 17th. Whatever the next meeting is, versus going back to SOB, I don't think. I don't think they understood the timing of it and that it needed to be processed. They just, I think, they asked for the trip and whatnot. They thought those were good ideas, but understanding the point that Heinz made earlier about fundraising, he said, that's just not gonna be feasible to get that all done and do the fundraising to get the structure or to get the sculpture delivered. And so understanding that what he kind of thought was at least to the effort of the sob and hopefully hit the fundraising timelines that times are looking for, you know, holding off on two weeks. We can advertise it. We'll put it on the web. We'll ask the papers to write articles about it. So people can be informed and then you got to take your official action then. Could you, could we direct staff to do a draft acceptance please? Well that's what this disagreement, when it's, I mean the final motion would be, you know, moved to authorize the execution of this agreement and then you'd have it be the official action. Can I just ask the men? Is there, I mean, is there something magical about having it installed in July? Yes. What? The, we're trying to line it up with the construction that's going on with all the other landscape and getting it all finished at that point. OK. I was just curious. Like I just. Is there one of the timeline of the town? Well, and I think that the sculpture will be finished. Yeah, I didn't know what was pushing the timeline If this is going to be accepted and what we need to change the landscape plan And we need to actually start digging the gigantic hole not gigantic But a large hole to get the Foundation and we didn't want to take out all the plantings and we wanted to do as once Right I would then move that we direct staff to continue working on the agreement and to put together a whatever is necessary for the down's acceptance of the agreement at our next regular council meeting. Do I have a second? I agree with Bob in regards to, I'm going to second and second, but I agree that continue to review for community output is the direction we need to go in and under all these circumstances and all these terms I think it's a win-win situation for the town that hides and I applaud you for bringing this forward. So I second it. Further discussion? I just want to insert in the discussion that has nothing to do with the motion you just made, but I'm leaving on Wednesday. I have to go to a funeral that I'm speaking in. He will died. You know him. Oh, he did. Yes. And my sympathy. I'll take care of that. And as Clint just pointed out, I have verbal commitments. The way we have structured the covering the cost of this thing, I've put in $100,000 with my wife. I can't forget her. And she's sitting right back there. She'll let you figure it out. She'll take your water bottle away if you do. And I'm getting five other people to put in $25,000 each. I have verbal commitments on three or four of those, but until I have a paper and can show them that it's going to the town of Sonoma, it's blah, blah, blah, blah, and all this stuff, I can't document this stuff. And I'd like to get on with that. Okay. We have a motion on the table. It's been seconded. Any further discussion? I'll just state for the record that I'm still of the opinion that the town is making a significant investment in a discovery center. And I think the roundabout is the best place for us to promote that facility. And I think an ice age animal would be the best use for that space. No offense to hines. I think your sculpture is beautiful. It's my opinion. You kindly shared that with me the last time. And can I share with you how I feel about the ice age discovery center? It's not part of this discussion actually and it's probably smart enough for me to do it. It's not part of this discussion actually and it's probably smart-ass of me to do it But my opinion is that they'll never be able to raise the money to finish it out And it is of no significant economic value to the town of snowmess Because people come here to ski and to hike and to bike and Some guy will go in there with his children when he has children here and they'll go in their once and That'll be it pardon my bluntness but that's the way I feel about that. Now I know where you stay. Okay we have a motion on the table and we have a second for that all in support. Hi. Hi. I oppose same side. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I see you in June. Thank you and travel safely. We look forward to it. And I'll see you in June. Thank you and travel safely. We look forward to it. I'll be here for the installation hopefully. The process will communicate by email and what have you in the meantime. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Hines. Safe travels. Thank you. Thank you for all your hard work. Moving on to transportation funding, ballot, measurez. Safe travels. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That's for all your hard work. Moving on to transportation funding, ballot, measure, and print. This is a discussion. The council has to be agendas for this evening. Primarily regarding House Bill 1242. That's a bill of movement to the state legislature. Primarily to increase the state sales tax rate from 2.9% to 3.52%. The funds would then primarily be used for transportation. In the agenda packet, I put the breakdown of how the funds would be broken down. And the council was really asking for an update tonight. As of Friday, after this packet went to press, the past, the House, and is not going to the Senate and the Senate will be reviewing it over the course of the next week. There have been some revisions from the original bill. Primarily the annual amount, the good and debt service was increased from 300 million to 375 million, which would ask at bigger binding capacity for larger projects, but and reduce the amount going to the community's italics and cities. The CML is taking a position of support on this. Cast a car or a transit is taking a position of support on this. And that's where we're standing today. So, if I remember my numbers when this thing first came out, the year one was anticipated to raise $575 million, of which originally 300 now, 350 million go to state transportation. So with the, if one were to make the assumption of $575 million in year one, and with a breakdown as it's now, as it was past the house, is there any way to determine what the increase in revenue that the town would actually get back from this? The best way that I've heard to analyze it and I haven't double checked it is that it would be similar in the amount of dollars that we currently receive from HUTF funding. Highway user tax fund funding and right now we receive on average just a round number about $125,000 and so that's that's the rule of thumb that I've been given the work with and that's the one I've had you so far but about 125. Okay thank you. Thank you growing obviously. Do we know what that percentage is going into pick in county or is this just municipalities? The HUTF is a formula-based distribution of the state and so and HUTF the county's actually get 70% of the money. Municipalities get 30% this is being shifted to a 50-50 split there There's the off the top. So the short answer is yes. I'm sure I could find that money for the county. Are that number for the county? I don't know it. But that's the rule. So the other impact that I was reading the other day was also education. It looked like the funding was going to go up, but I know probably more than likely it will go down of what our school district receives and I already know Raffta is going to have some challenges, particularly around faster grants and all the, I mean, there's all federal funding. This is, this is state funding, what those aren't all the state school districts funding is through the state. Faster is through the banks that are coming. But then this is this is primarily new tax revenue. I mean the idea is I mean I didn't go into the history so I just assumed everybody knew. Yeah. State infrastructure is not being funded as the argument and they can't find the dollars in existing revenue of the state between TABER and just blank the property tax amendment, somebody with the Gallagher, thank you. The Gallagher amendment that keeps ratcheting down the way that how much residential gets taxed compared to commercial property. There's a whole slew of conflicting constitutional, constitutional requirements that dictate how state funding works and what it comes down to. It's transportation, funding from a general fund, has almost become non-existent. I think it is non-existent. And this is the solution that was put forward over the last several legislatures, state legislature sessions. They've explored this in a variety of ways. They've looked at increasing in the gas tax. They've looked at increasing all sorts of different funding sources. And through polling, through political analysis, this is the system that they think has got the best chance to pass for state transportation improvements. If this were to pass, it would then put, and it would end past the voters, it would then put our sales tax in a snowmast over 11%. Yeah, 12 cents on the dollar. All right, so 11.02, so 11 cents on the dollar. Okay. Not good. So, I don't know how the rest of my, how does the rest of my, how does the rest of this body feel about that? It's a pretty, that's pretty tough nut. That's a lot of it. You know, we struggled with how we were gonna help school, we struggled with how we were gonna help new my house in regards to sales tax. And now the state is putting this onto us. So it's, I don't know what we can do. Well, we're going to have to figure out a solution. I think we have to figure out a solution. And in some manner, shape or form, to try to reduce the sales tax. I think it's really un-combined. Let's say the combined tax. It's combined tax. Combined tax. I think it's really unfortunate that we couldn't get any momentum behind the gas tax. I mean, it totally makes sense to me that there's actually a gas tax to be paying for these improvements. Yeah, it is. Well, and the other alternative since gas tax is so politically unpopular as income tax, and that's a state revenue, when you go back and you try and figure out or see the ways that CMLs try to manipulate this, not manipulate, affect it in a way that's positive for municipalities. I think it's very fair to say they've done their best and the biggest thing is that the 50-50 slip between cities and counties, they've proposed a 70-30 is 50-50. So, the CML is done what it can. If it's going to go forward, it has the largest, most positive effect. But the sales tax was come, it came straight from the legislature and their own negotiations with themselves. Apparently, the bipartisan approach that they thought they could get the voters considered. And I don't disagree with you on it. I mean, this is the true essence of a political process trying to find out you know what's what's palatable. Well, we know we're gonna have to struggle with this one. I don't think you can 11th, 11 cents sales tax on people coming in to our community. I think our merchants would really be struggling. I don't know about the rest of you. I think it's definitely a conundrum. We have something to this is going to be a challenge. This is definitely a challenge. I mean we need in order to stay competitive we need to we need to bring that. We need to bring that. We need to do something. Okay, I don't know if there's much else we can do tonight. No. Relative to this, but we've got to keep our eye on these lunches. I mean, one thing we could, I guess one thing we could do is we could, as the elected officials of the town of Snowmass Village, we could send a letter to our state senator. And we could express our displeasure or at least our concern. I think that's a reasonable. I think it's worth doing. Yep. Yep. Can you personally? Staff, what about the rest of you? I think it's reasonable to ask staff to send a letter of disapproval. We prefer, we can say we prefer gas stacks. I totally agree with this. This is not, I don't know, sure we're going to have much effect, but I think it's worth going through the effort. Are there do we know what other municipalities have high like a high tax? Yes. Winter Park is a little bit more than we do. Because maybe it would be helpful to reach out to those municipalities that have high tax. There's one. Winter Park and have them write a letter as well. We could do that. I don't know their position. I mean, I can find out what their position is if they've taken one or another. But we can draft a letter and we can bring it back in two weeks and let you guys make sure it's correct and reflective and that it might be over in two weeks. When does this hit the Sun and Gender? It says it's like this week. Yeah, we need to do it. It's awesome. Would it be worth going to cast and trying to get, you know, a group together? If the individual community's all set there against it, I mean, just anecdotally, I think the majority communities are supportive of this. I don't know the most during this. I mean, I don't haven't seen a poll. I've seen, you know, some small towns, Cedar Ridge is the smallest I've seen, come out of Gensdit. I know at the last EOTC meeting, the county, at least one county commissioner urged everyone to support it. So I don't know if we can get cast to line up and behind it or not. I certainly ask, but I don't know if there's... Cedar Ridge, what's their sales tax? I don't know but there's there's more of an issue of The sales taxes primarily used by municipalities. It's really our best opportunity to increase our tax revenues And when the state taps into it Negatively affects municipalities of the Increased race to do other services What's a sales tax announcement? 9% to do other services. What's the sales tax announcement? 9%. 9%? 9%, maybe? 9% somewhere in the mid-range. It's well under tune. I mean, the easiest way to compare is everything's the same except for municipalities. R is just 3.5, and there's just 2.4 or something. They're almost 4% lower than us. So if this does go up, I mean, you know, if it passes and then it increases to 11%, and we have to do something about it, how does that work? See the name? How does it work for us to figure out how to decrease the sales tax? Like, I mean, I know marketing is a big part of it, but I'm saying like, is it a vote? Is it, how does it work? To increase sales taxes, you have to go to a vote of the people. To decrease it, we'd have to go through an ordinance, I would imagine. But I mean, it wouldn't. I don't know if that is what I understand about the process. It would be passing ordinance. OK, you would have prepared a letter. Yeah, so do you want it to come back in two weeks or would you be just going to and the letter and the concern is can you send it has an email before you send it? Why is it like to see it? I like to do that. Okay thank you very very much and Bob thank you for bringing all this to our attention to it's huge issue. Next is a discussion on the 2017 gold statement that's in page 357 and a comments for Clint on hopefully as we work towards the last draft. Oh, let's ask him. But are they material? I mean it's some of the way that things are worded. Okay. But if someone else wants to go, that's fine too. You have to get there. Listen, why don't you go? I don't have any material changes either. I think it's just some of it for me was just the way that it was worded. So under affordable housing, the first sentence, I felt like, I mean, I want to make sure that it's cleared everyone that that captured what we were saying about, yes, we need to increase it, but we want to make sure it meets the need. I mean, I felt like it did. But I think that was the biggest point of discussion. But the second sentence, I just wanted to change how that sentence read. And I would say providing a variety of affordable housing options within the village not only enables community members to contribute to the local economy, it also helps build a strong, well connected and engaged community. That's a good, good job. Because I just, I thought it sounded funny. And I can email you that language if you want. Okay. What's next, do you want to say anything? Yes, hold on. I'm trying to make that go down so I could pull up the other comment. In the last sentence, I also felt like it was a little strange how was worded. And I would say something like it is especially important to explore opportunities that offer a wide array of options to accommodate multi-generational housing needs from seniors to young professionals. That's fine. It's just a rework of that sentence. Yeah, it was reading funny to me. Okay. So, well, go ahead. Well, we're in that same section. Yeah. The one sentence you didn't have a change for. I want to suggest that we will actively pursue the longstanding goal of housing all those of our full time work force that want to live in the community. Because I don't know. It just when I read it, it seemed awkward. Maybe it's not so awkward. No, I read it like, yeah, I thought about that one too. I didn't know what I'd change it to, but I understand. Can you add that? We will actively pursue the longstanding goal of housing those of our full-time workforce that want to live in the community. Okay, let's move on down to community engagement. I didn't have anything under that one. I mean one either. I guess the one thing of the affordable housing bob your point was you wanted to eliminate the percentage out of there. And I guess it was easy enough where we're just gonna get the number of jobs in Stomach Village and and what we currently have. Right? Did we come up with that number? No, we don't have one, right? No. We have not updated it from the 2007 analysis or 2008 to last thing we've done it. I mean, I don't think it's critical that we have a percentage in there. So long as we know that it's our focus and our goal. I don't know if we want to live here. Yeah. Okay. Community engagement. I don't have to live here. Yeah. Okay. Community engagement. I don't have anything on community engagement. Okay. Thank you, Tom. Community building. I had something there. Okay. There was a lot of like repetition in the second sentence it repeated the first sentence. So I felt like it should say the town, in addition comma, the town needs to increase utilization of existing community spaces by programming them with community-focused activities and exploring blah, blah, blah, the rest of that sentence. Those are already there. It just was weird repetition. That's a good modification. I couldn't figure out what to do. Yeah, it was just there was it was bothering me and I can send these all to you, Clint. I have them written down. Fine, we'll accept all those from the most of safety. I had something on safety. safety. I had something on safety. Oh, it's the seconds ends. The second sentence I think should say the town needs to continue focusing its energy on making the community physically connected in as safe as possible. Because in all these other senses we say you know the town is taking us to responsibility so I feel like it should say that. Yeah. Okay. Hey. And I didn't know when you say individuals with mobility issues if that's like you say that. What? It's a catch-all. What? It's a catch-all. Okay I just didn't know if that was appropriate way to write that. I've never done that before. Okay. Resoliency. The I didn't know if that was appropriate to write that. I've never done that before. Okay, resiliency, the section on resiliency. I got no more comments. I did not have any regionalization. Okay, with those minor modifications, we may be done. Final read. Okay, now council updates. Do you want me to get those and bring them back for a final? Yeah one final yes bring them back maybe at the next meeting. You're not going to have a full council the next meeting. I don't know if that matters or not. I think we're going to be missing. Can we approve it? We could approve it with those minors. I mean those are minors. Yeah. With the minors. Yeah. Okay. I need a motion. I'll motion to approve with the as said through the changes made in those episodes. Okay. I need a second. I'll second. Okay. Further discussion? All in support? Aye. Good job, guys. Thank you, Clint. Thank you. Next is reports, updates. Tom? Okay. So, you know, CORE, we had a retreat last Wednesday, very long day, and basically talk a lot about the new high five thing that's happening this coming Saturday at the airport business center, at the Brew Recall, I don't know where the Brew Recall is, but it's going to start at 5.30, it's going to talk about, you know, basically energy efficiency and how we're going to achieve those particular goals and some of the big things we're talking about is how what's the next big idea for core in regards to which direction all the municipalities could start working individually on some of these high energy efficiency options, and I know I talked to Clint about this. Briefly, I sent an email. They wanted to know because City of Aspen is also sponsoring this high five along with CORE and they wanted to know if we wanted to contribute and it would take a $2,500 donation to contribute to basically get listed with them. High five is just the start of the day plan on doing more. They plan on doing a lot more than just this coming weekend and Saturday will be at Aspen and I'm sorry I just going to pull up the next email. This is going to be a second one down in Carbondale in another week after that. So Saturday at the ABC? Yes, at 530 at the brewery club. But brewery, I don't know what the brewery is, but it is at the ABC. Saturday 530. Saturday 530. Is that the new place? I'm not sure where it is. Is that the place that when we're mountain natural? You know what? Oh yeah, it could be. It may be. Yeah. I don't have anything. I have nothing in particular to note. I just like to say that the Aspen World Cup finals were amazing. I think we did a great job of destroying our town and our community and people were excited about it. It was good to see. There was an Northwest Cog meeting that I couldn't go to. The Bob went for me. Bob wasn't. But I don't think there was anything. It really wasn't. It was in. But I don't think there is anything. It really wasn't. No. It was just all standard stuff. All standard. But that's it. Northwest Cog is showing the film being morto at Pick and County Library. So Northwest Cog is up here this week. And I'll see them Wednesday night at 6 o'clock at Pick and County Library. So anybody who wants to come, it's on the book, a tall, a guandai, a six to eight, it's the movie. Okay, okay. Do I have a motion for adjournment? You do, you have a motion to adjourn? I'll second. Thank you all the support. Bye. Oh, same say. Same side. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Thank you.