you you you you you you you you the . Good afternoon. The special meeting of the city commission for Tuesday July 23 . your cell phones. Madam City Clerk please call a roll. Mayor Cleveland here. Vice Mayor Perine here. Commissioner McGurk here. Commissioner Martin. President Commissioner Hartman. Rosa. Thank you. Very good for all that are watching remotely. Commissioner Perrion, vice mayor Perrion is with us remotely. Can you hear us, Valley? I can't. Excellent. Platter, everybody's here. So this meeting is a special meeting to set the top limit of the millage. And so if there are any citizens who wish to speak, we'd like you to come forward. You'll have three minutes to talk. It's a monologue, not a dialogue. It's your opportunity to talk to us. Hopefully, about the topic we're discussing tonight. You'll have three minutes. And when you come forward, your name and address for the record please. Anyone for public participation? Lastly. Good evening, Mayor and commissioners and staff. I'm here on behalf of my husband retired city commissioner Jake Sachs. He could not be here tonight so he asked me to read the short letter and to submit it to the clerk with emails to the city from 2019. As a former commissioner, I strongly advocated for emergency traffic signals for station 50 and 52. I am pleased and grateful that with the help of our city manager, staff, and of course our previous city commission, that Newsmer-Nabish residents are safer due to the implementation of the traffic light at station 50 headquarters. That emergency signal is providing a proven safe and quick response time when fire rescue is needed. When lives are at stake, seconds count. Seconds turn in the minutes and minutes seem like hours for those desperately waiting in need of fire and rescue services. Our quality of life is improved by the placement of emergency signals in front of fire stations. First responders will not be impeded or delayed as they leave the station. The Florida Department of Transportation has also approved an emergency signal for station 52 on the beach side. It was deemed warranted and approved as a standalone traffic safety improvement. It need not, nor should not wait for any additional development or infrastructure. It should be built on its own merits as a desperately needed traffic safety improvement. The light will make it less dangerous for fire and rescue apparatus to leave the station. It is incumbent that the city build this light as soon as possible. It is long overdue improvement. It is a long overdue improvement that was previously approved by the city and can be funded with transportation and pack fees. I urge the commission to move forward with engineering and building the emergency signal. Our citizens and the firefighters that protect us all deserve the best the city can provide them. During these budget discussions, remember that the light should not have to wait for a fire department ambulance to be eventually stationed there. The definition of first responder means just that. When that alarm sounds very likely a fire bumper or ladder truck may respond first. There should be no delay in the arrival of essential emergency services which are firefighters and paramedics so do to provide. Thank you respectfully Commissioner Jake Sachs retired. Thank you. Leslie appreciate that. Is there anyone else for public participation? Seeing none, public participation is now closed and before I turn it over to the city manager to set this up, I believe the Assistant Finance Director, Shaleza Bola, will outline the budget presentation, the resolutions that follow her presentation will be considered for the adoption of the city commission to set the tentative millage rate. It will be no two future, to be be to future meetings regarding the millage rate. The first one will be a budget hearing schedule for the September 11th is to consider the adoption of setting the proposed millage rate and then lastly the second budget hearing will be scheduled for 24th September. It will be to consider the adoption setting of the final military. And now, sir, set this up for us so we can proceed. Well, thank you, Mayor and Commission. I cannot believe that's already due to a budget cycle again. to a budget cycle again. This year's budget was prepared based on the current millage plus the .22 that was committed three years ago, and this is the last year for the commitment. We have met with the departments previous to the preparation of the budget for each department heads and we went through the items line item by line item. What's included in the budget is the top priorities for each department. Now you have a large list of unfunded items that it's included in here. Now I just want to make sure that the Commission understand there is nothing here that it's included in here. Now I just want to make sure that the Commission understands there is nothing here that it's approved yet because a lot of people think it's approved but it's not approved until you have the second public hearing in September. The village that we used is the 4.6 370. That's the operating village that we are proposing so which means it's the current village plus the point to two Now when you go through the budgets and you look at the items that it's included in each department Again, it's it's the top priority that that we, whether it's a capital equipment, capital projects, or personnel. We did not add as many personnel as was requested initially by the department heads. If you look at the current page seven out of the power points. I wanted to use that because initially last year we used $276,000. I have asked Assistant Finance Director to look at Zellow and look at the property appraisal. So, we are using 477,000 plus for our taxes in this illustration. And you could see that the school board gets 29%. The county gets 40% and we get 23% or 25% out of that taxes. So I just wanna make sure that people understand that the entire taxes does not go to the city of Los Van der Beatz. So you got different agencies who collect the taxes before we receive our 25%. I want to have the assistant finance elected to go through some of the items that would end the PowerPoint. But keep in mind that we have a very healthy reserve some of the items that would end the power points. But keep in mind that we have a very healthy reserve. That does not come from nothing. So one of the commissioners have asked me, what is the reserve in 23 at this time and then 24? To my surprise, in 23, we had a reserve to $20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 today we have 10.3 million above the required from the budget, 25%. So I just want to make sure that a lot of times what happened is some of you will look at the budget that it was approved at $130 million, for example, that then you look and you see the actual is $140 million or $135 or $137 million. But just keep in mind that when we have grants that was assigned to this project or to this item, when we put the item in the budgets, we have to pay for the entire project and then we get free and burst. When we get free and burst, it doesn't go back to the item, it goes back to the General Fund. That's one. The second thing is we have encumbered purchase orders that you issue in this year. If you don't finish, they carry forward to the next year. So that's why you see a significant difference in the budget that was approved and the budget that you can see actual. So I just want to make sure that when people look at it, they see that and they go, oh my God. Now again, I'm not saying that we didn't have any budget amendments during the year. I mean, obviously you do because sometimes what happens is somebody comes to the commission, they wanted to do something that it wasn't budgeted. We have to do budget amendment to do that. So with that, I will have Shiliza to go over the PowerPoint and will be more than happy to ask them any questions you might have. I have asked her also, there were a couple of changes from the previous PowerPoints. I pointed that out to you during the briefings 101, but also some of you have asked these capital equipment or vehicles are there placed or new? So I have asked Shaleiza to put that on the power point as well. So you could see if it's a new replacement. Thank you. as well, so you could see if it's a new order placement. Great. Appreciate that. And are there any questions or comments before we get started? I had one or two, anybody? College, one of the comments you made was none of these have been voted on. That's accurate. Did I hear you right that the funded items are written into the budget? That's in your calculations. Yeah. And the unfunded are also written in or not? No, they're not. The current budget that you have proposed with the current village that we are proposing, anything that is in the unfunded list is not funded. Anything that's in the funded list, it isn't the budgets. However, again, that's in the funded list it isn't the budgets however Again, that's not a pretty much consideration by us even if it's funded it exactly I guess so when you go to the budget workshop on August the seventh You know you might see an item there that you could say well, you know, I don't want to do this this year I want to do it next year I want to replace this item with another item So that's that's it, but the unfunded is not included in the budget. These are items that I received from different departments that I did not include in the budget. But I just want to make sure that the commission sees this list. What is the amount in the reserve today in total dollars? Right now? Yeah. 10.3 million total. I mean, 20 million. 20 million. 20 million. 0.64. Great. Great. All right. I just wanted to have a whole numbers. I know that. That may I'm sorry. That may I include the 25% and the above? I understand. I get it. I know often talking through this commissioner Martin likes numbers rather percentages and I think that adds a bit of clarity So I appreciate knowing that the big number is 20 some million dollars. Well typically it's 25% of your budget So whatever your budget is you have to have 25% of that and we have so much on top of it Very good ma'am just to clarify it's 25% of the current year's budget is the required reserve. Yes. Thank you. Yes, sir. So now, Shaliza will outline the presentation after which the city attorney will read items numbered three, Bravo through Echo, and then the commission will vote separately on each of those resolutions. So with that, and Mr. Beebe is in the room. The finance director is here. So for those of you watching, I may not see him on the screen. He's taking notes and has been participating fully through this, so we have the whole team here. Good afternoon, Mayor and City Commission. So just kind of an overview again. We're presenting $138 million for this proposed budget, which includes 3.02 of capital equipment and 31.2 of capital projects. We have 10.5 new positions, a 3% overall salary increase, a 3.6% increase in health care, and a 7.8% increase for blue cost per shield. She leads us sorry for interrupting. We like questions at the end or as we go. At the end. At the end or as we go at the end at the end So General fund we are it's set right now at 52.4 million Brandon Center at 647,000 and golf course at 2.3 million We're proposing operating millage of 4.637 We're proposing an operating millage of 4.637, the voted debt of 0.0194 to give us a total of 4.7284. And currently our rollback rate is at 4.0813. So this one just shows a comparison of budget to debt. So we, as you can see, we are significantly greater than our debt. And on this slide, what I wanted to show here was this is our property value by class. So most of our property value taxes are coming from our residential at 83.59%. And then we've got agricultural and institutional miscellaneous governmental. And the second big issue one was commercial at 10.01%. Comparison of last year to this year, last year we had an operating millage of 4.41. This year we're going to 4.63. That's what we're proposing. The 2005 debt is going to be sunset. The 2018 debt we were able to reduce to 0.914 so showing that we've increased it by just the point 2.24 basically. Actually, so just, Mayor, if you just, if you go to that slide at the bottom, it shows that the 2005 that set will set in fiscal year 2024. So I just want to make sure that. So this one, like the city manager was saying earlier, I looked at the market value for New Sumerna Beach for homes and 477,000 was about average. And I went on to the property appraisers website and took what they're proposing as their taxable rates right now. So that's how I came up with this numbers. Coupled with what we're proposing. So, for us then, for that value of a house, from 2024 to 2025, you're increasing by operating millage, we're going to increase by $106. The 2005 debt will decrease, well, it would be zero. The 2018 would be a decrease. So they're moving from $2,248 to $2,259. So an overall increase of $11 and 66 cents. And that's per month. Sorry. This is the same slide I kind of I showed the last time. I have not we have not gotten up to date. So this is as of the beginning of 2024. Operating millage. Get again this was a slide we showed before so general fund revenues broken down to property taxes, state revenue, utilities commission, public service tax, charges for services, franchise fees, and other sources, all totaling $52.4 million. General fund expenses, we just kind of showing in larger groupings, public safety, general government, leisure, sports complex, maintenance ops, and our interfund transfers have to total get 52.4 million. This one shows citywide expenses and And comparison to what we've amended to what we're proposing, we're at minus 1.22% reduction so far. And here we go into the list of funded items. So because it's a PowerPoint and it was kind of difficult, for the funded items, I only marked off what was new. Everything else is a replacement. For the unfunded listing I was able to go in and put replace or new So then we come to page 27, which on this one we're just showing what is the value of a mill and what change or what projected revenue then it would create for us as a city. So if we were to add 1 mil to the 4.637, we're projected revenue, we're looking at 34.8 million dollars. If we were to add half a mil, we would be looking at 31.7 million dollars, 0.25, 30 million, 0.1 or 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 As you could see, if you tonight you will be approving the tentative millage, which is the 4.6370. Now, that's mean you cannot go any higher, but you could go lower. When we go to the budget workshop on August the 7th, I want to be able to give you some flexibility. I want to be able to give you some flexibility in case if you want to add any item to the budgets At that you know after the workshop if I don't give you any flexibility You'll be able to do something you might have to take item from the one that approved from the funded list Or vice versa, but I want to be able to, which means if you add any of these to the, to the military right now, doesn't mean that you're going to approve that one, but it gives you the flexibility. My recommendation is to go between either the 0.5 or the 0.25, but if you ask me what is my, that's up recommendation would be to add the 0 .25 and make it less than make it 4.999. So at that's when you trying to approve the actual millage, then you could lower it, you could add, you could subtract, but you have the flexibility to do that. You could add, you could subtract, that you have the flexibility to do that. And just last but not least, just giving you a total summary of it. So we're proposing 4.63 at 0.19 for a total of 4.724. And our next step is to provide our max village to our property appraisal office. Questions? Thank you very much. Jenny, anything else, sir? Mr. Roush, I think it's, you know, I just want to, we really have gone on this one here where we were trying to, I mean, if I had the chance to go to the rollback, I would have done that. But there is so many items that we have delayed from the previous budget, if you recall, we did not include, we said let's include it in the next year budget. So that made it difficult for us to even go to the rollback Okay, so I'm sure there are comments and questions or enlightenment. Let's as we dig into this So we'll test technology in a minute, but we'll and so standby vice mayor, but Mr. Martins in the room and so we'll let's start there and then we'll go to you and just see if we can get this moving Okay, probably just some clarifications on the proposed budget overview. Where you're listing the Brandon Center and the golf course. Is that the cost to the general fund after revenue is received? Or we know that we subsidize both the Brandon Center and the golf course. And we know that we get revenue from both of those. So I'm trying to figure out whether these two numbers represent just the impact to the general fund or is it the cost pre-revenue? It's the total of their funds. So basically they're expecting to spend $647,000 for purchase. And so we don't know what part of that, you know, this is their expenses is what you're saying. Basic, but it doesn't show it any revenue offset to their expenses. There is a revenue offset. Is that included in that number? Yeah. So remember we have to balance on both sides. No, I understand. I was just trying to figure out whether this is the net hit to the general fund or whether this was a number that represented something else. In other words, it's the total authorized expenditures the number that you see there. I understand that. However, there are revenues that they receive. So I'm saying is this is the expenditures pre or post revenue receipt? So it's pre revenue receipt so it's not really an accurate number of this general government because if it's pre-revenue receipts, then it's just larger. Okay. So, okay. Is that, have we got it right? And so it's the cost without any revenue, yeah? All right. Give me one second. Yeah, it's okay. Well, I thoroughly expect you to have every single number and absolutely memorized. There's only how many, because the number numbers in there? Great. So it's definitely a memory test. OK. So general fund is transferring into Brennan Center $302,000. OK. And who is the expected hit on the general fund? Right. Okay. And then for golf course, we're looking at $278,000. Okay. So, but so for revenues, for charges for services and for brand and center, we're estimating $345. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. For revenues, for charges for services on, for Brandon's center, we're estimating 345. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. You just take this gross number minus the uncomfortable numbers. The transfers, right? Yes. Thank you. Okay. Next question. When we look at the taxable value by property class, do we have, we're back to my dollars, do we have a total property value in dollars? Because remember, if last year our taxable value was $100, is this year $105, or what is our total taxable value? The 7 billion 7 billion in change we can work with that and in 2023 what was it? 2023 was 6.36 billion. 6.36 billion. Okay. All right. I'm just trying to get a feeling for things. On the property taxes, let's again look at the total dollars. If we have that, what do we say, seven billion property value and we have the 4.7040 milledrate, what is the dollar value? And if we have the 4.7284, what is the total dollar value and if we have the 4.7284 what is the total dollar value? So this one, this is the dollar value for that 477 on this slide page 8. Okay, let's look at page 8. Are you looking at the property? Yeah, that's on a per unit basis. I was looking at a total citywide basis. So roughly I would assume it's like 4.7040 times 7 billion. Correct. Correct. So right. And the same with the 4.7284 times roughly 7 billion. So then you're looking at seven, two, eight, four times, roughly seven billion. So then you're looking at property tax of estimated at $32 million. So $32 million at the 4.7040? And I know it's buried in here. At the 4.63. 4.63. OK, is, whatever you say, $32 million. I know it's buried. $32. Okay, is, um, whatever you say 32- I know it's a bill. 32.5, yep. 32.5 mil. And at the, um, uh... And at last year we were at 28.1 out of a millage of 4.4. Okay, at the 4.4150 times 7 billion. Mm, times 6.3. I'm sorry? Times is 6.3 billion. That was last year's. Oh, I see what you're saying. Right, okay. But if we're looking at the rollback. Okay, so now we've got some numbers. Okay. I'm almost finished. Mm-hmm. Okay, so now we've got some numbers. Okay, I'm almost finished. I think there was only one more. I think I think. I do know, and this comes from yesterday's meeting. I was just curious about the street lights on Atlantic. What the dollar cost is with that? What you have here is 2.7. That is Canal and Flagler. I understand. Canal is 1.6. Okay. And then South Atlantic is 1.1 million. 1.1 million. Mill. Now. For south Atlantic. Yeah, but just keep in mind, that's an estimate. So I'll just say that's the exact same. Oh, we all know it's all estimates. So, but that's where the 2.7 come up. Thank you. No. And that's the list of my questions. OK, Commissioner Perrine, batter up. Ready to see if the technology is And that's the list of my questions. Okay. Commissioner Perine, batter up. Ready to see if the technology is good we think it is. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay, wonderful. So, Colledin, during the briefing, we talked about the naming of the sports complex for the LED lights. That's a in the funded budget of $190,000. What I didn't ask, that was for like advertisement signs or marketing. Do you know or anticipated or have a business plan of how much of that $890 will be funded by this advertisement? Well, they're working on the naming rights, the Assistance and Emanager, and also the Legal Service Director. So I don't know if you have any updated information around on this. It's our intent to fund the entire lighting project through the naming rights program. But that's it again, Ron. It's our intent to fund the entire LED lighting through the naming rights program. So no general fund revenues would go into that project. But we do have that budgeted out of general fund or not at all. Not at all. Not at all. Okay. The other thing is we have a lot of autos that are coming out of general fund this time, but we have a million dollars in reserve for the fleet. I ask Collette if we could put off purchasing those autos this year and have them all come out and reserved next year or drilled down during our budget workshop and see if we can add a little more to that reserve to get that reserve account going instead of tapping into the general fund. Say some more about that, Valley. You want your ideas to defer to year and then what how does it involve the reserve account? I think we have enough in that coming out of the general fund for these audits that would help not have them to go higher with our millage rate is what I was hoping for. We wouldn't need that cushion if we just did the bare minimum because during the budget workshop we can actually see cabins proposal and David's proposal on which cars are actually costing us money and do the absolute necessary but start using that fleet reserve that we have a million dollars 500,000 last year and 500,000 this year already set aside. We shouldn't have to tap General Fund and add 500,000 to that reserve. If the cars are replaced that eight years, why can't we look at that and get that started sooner? So it's not hitting our general fund and mileage. So Commissioner Perrine, the purpose for that reserve is to actually just allocate a portion of the money that's going to be used for the vehicle that was bought in that particular year. So for 2024, we allocated $700,000. Now that's just a portion of it. By the time the end of the life cycle of that vehicle, we should be adding every single year to that money. It's not going to fully cover in one year for one vehicle. Is there a way we could do a catch up since we have this reserve already? So over the reserve. What I was actually chatting with the maintenance ops director, we're going to try and focus maybe on one division or a smaller amount of a number of vehicles to start this program with and not really truly look at the entire fleet in this way and try to fund the entire fleet while also purchasing replacements at the same time. So I could be the slowest guy up here, but I like her concept. Are you saying that the money would not be there, that we would not have enough in the reserve fund that this represents only a portion of the number of the cost. Because we were supposed to be adding. So for the $700,000 we put in for this year, we need to add it for next year as well, plus whatever you're buying next year, so that in truth you're adding $1.2 million really to next year, that's what we should have done. That's how the whole program, their intent of the program should be set up. So that's why. And it's like an unfunded or when you're not fully funded for your retirement, you do catch up. Right. So I was considering versus pulling this out of the general fund actually to know what that's gonna cost us to get us to where do we need to be. How sure are we? I am not. I see the fleet managers are Kevin here and can you help us with that? Okay. And vice mayor. And I know you might answer that but if there's some way we can use that fleet reserve versus general fund, we wouldn't need to add more money to our millage rate. That's where I was going with that. You know, Vice Mayor just at the end of the day, the $500,000 or the $700,000, it's coming out of General Fund to the restricted fund for the fleet replacement. So I mean, it's really, they're both coming out of General Fund. But the idea was when we established a program was to establish a program and started where now you have a fleet management system that you could replace the vehicles as they, the life expectancy goes away. And I wish I could do what we talked about yesterday. But anyway, it's both coming out of General Fund. So really, I mean, if we're going to do something, you got the healthy reserve. I mean, if you wanted to get that out of the, because it's a one-ticket item, you could purchase it out of the General Fund reserve and take it out of this, you will not increase the millage. You could do that. Well, I like the idea of replacing the vehicles that are eight years old and using the maintenance report that Kevin and David have with the cars that are costing us money versus, you know, at what point in time, does that happen? the public. We have a lot of things that we have in the public. We have a lot of things that we have in the public. We have a lot of things that we have in the public. We have a lot of things that we have in the public. We have a lot of things that we have in the public000 peg for the funded budget this year, that's a million. I'm just questioning what a amateur we should or to get to that number year eight of the cars that are gonna be coming off that are needed to be replaced. So I believe the maintenance off director will have something to present to you guys under the August 7th meeting. Okay. Because the main thing I'm going to drill on on that meeting is before we approve any new head counts to have HR and that director maybe give us a rundown and a justification for that and those are all unfunded so we're not really looking at that now but also that fleet how we're going to set that up. I will do that. That's the only question. And just so this way I guess we roll on the same page the right now it's 1.2 million in that restricted funds for the for the vehicle replacement. So apparently it's 700 I think I mentioned to you 500 it's 700,000 this year and 500 for the coming budget. So 1.2 million. John, we had the other question I had. We're replacing Flagler Avenue's lights this year with ARP and money. Well, we didn't have that luxury for Canal Street money because it wasn't bedded on be with the ARPF funds. And the lights are older on Canal than they are on Flagler. So I don't know if we're going to need to set up a reserve for that or what we need to do instead of, I think you said instead of replacing all the lights on a Lanark Avenue in Canal, or instead of replacing it for you, you want to replace them all, but we could start a fund or when do we actually have to do this where safety is in effect? Setting up a reserve for that, I think that would be a good idea. However, that is going to come out of General Fond. So we're back to square one. But if we wanted to, I think it's both of them, it's 2.7 million. So in order to replace them at a, I guess, maybe in a appropriate time, you're looking at probably two years, which means you have to set up the first year is a million and 350 and another million, 350 in the following year. I mean, that's quite a bit. Again, you have the General Fund Reserve that you could use out of that one and then pay it back if you want to in terms of setting up like it's like you're actually taking a loan out of out of your own funds. My biggest fear is that the ARPA estimate for Flagler Avenue was made, but we may go way over budget on that and have to come out of general funds. We don't know if that's going to be the exact amount because they're actually not replaced yet. Yeah, that's right. There's been so much work done on Flagler. Two things. Can I jump in on the lights? First of all, the ARPAs, because as we know, Canal Street's already spent their portion of the arpefunds. And David's here with a complete rundown of the the cost for the flagler. The South Atlantic, and I'd like to have Eric weigh in on this. We have huge spots of blackness on Atlantic North and South. These are dangerous stretches of road and I think we've had concerns about safety with those and they have been out for quite some time and it's a real safety hazard. So we've got two people here that could weigh in on if we want to take on the lights on flag-luring canal. But maybe we'd prefer to do that at the workshop. That's a good idea. But just as a clarification, Commissioner Martin, the funds for Arba for canal streets were not for the lights. Those were for just an improvement. So just want to make sure because... And that's fine, yeah, but since the ARPA funding was brought up, just because we have... I just want to make sure, because in the ITO yesterday, there is no ARPA fund for the lights. And now you said there is ARPA fund, so for Canal, so that's only for improvements, the,000 that was just for the improvement not for the lights. So, as a clarification. Okay, back to you, Commissioner Prin. I think that's all I'd like to spend more time drilling down on our workshop by line item. This is just to prove the millage rate. So I did see those type of questions that jumped out at me when I was in the line item analysis. Thank you vice mayor. Appreciate that commissioner McGurk. Thank you mayor. So Lisa, good afternoon. On page 27, the millage value at 4.637 zero generates 28.6 million. What was that number in 2023? What was that number last year? How much did it generate? So, millage at 4.4, 2023, we were estimating $26 million. The difference was $2.6 million. Okay, thank you. And, um, Millage rate at an additional quarter mill is going to be And milled rate at an additional quarter mill is going to be 1.5 million and a half is going to be 3.1. Page seven evaluations of a home for $477,000. If we go up, let's just, I'm going to use just round numbers here. 10%. Save our homes. What does the actual increase, what is the actual increase for a home-stated person in New Samaritan? Wouldn't be 10%. Correct? Correct. We will only get out of that 10%, 25% will be ours. new Samura wouldn't be 10%. Correct? Correct. We will only get out of that 10%, 25% will be ours. Our cost. Our cost, I'm not sure. So my point is, is that when we increase to the taxpayer, let's say at 10% increase. Save our homes caps off at a 3% increase, right? So my point is what I'm saying is, we go up a certain percentage, a homesteaded property would only go up 3% of whatever that is. If it's above 3%. Correct. And this is kind of out in the weeds. Now it's kind of asking that question I met. I believe I know the answer to them, but there may have been some detail you could clarify. So I'm always interested in the millage and where we are within county of our 16 cities. We were always behind Orman Beach. Orman, all the cities have experienced many of the same kind of costs that we have, which have made us have to increase our mileage. What is Ormond? And I don't expect an answer from this. But I'm trying to understand what Ormond would have done differently or how they actually, we jumped ahead of them when they were ahead of us. So I'm just kind of curious about that and wondering if there's a, and I would guess it would be the ratio of commercial. Versus residential? Versus residential, because they've had a tremendous amount of tremendous growth in commercial. So I'm assuming that that's gonna be a significant reason why we have, they have fallen behind us or we have jumped ahead of them. But that to me is something very interesting to pay attention to with the context of what we're doing here, what we need to do and the balance between commercial and residential taxes to the city? It could be, it could be a couple of factors. I mean, that's one factor. The other factor is it could be that they did not either do projects or they did not purchase capital equipment or vehicles. So, you know, you look at the amount of capital outlay and capital equipment that we purchased the last two years plus the union negotiations have added the .22 for three years. So that really has kind of got us. So, when you add .22, three years in a row row, I mean obviously there we will be higher than them. And that ends this year. This is the last year. Correct. Okay, and we have 10 million above the 25% The finest of our understand. 10.3. We have 10 million dollars above the necessary 25% Correct. So we have a very healthy reserve which I can't imagine will not help to offset some of the increases that we anticipate going in at least that's right. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Mr. Hartman. Thank you mayor. So earlier I believe you said that all the vehicles that were funded are new vehicles and not replacement vehicles. No, no, no. I said anything that's new, I had new next to it. Okay. Everything else is replaced. Is replaced ones. Okay. Everything else is replaced is replaced ones. Okay. On page 13 the under fire the alert system upgrade. Yes. That's kind of a county mandate because they've improved on their alert system and we're kind of required to follow through with that. So, you know, just something to keep in mind that we keep getting these unfunded mandates from the county and the state. Obviously, that is part of the, an upgrade to the county-wide system. The county is paying for their portion of the bare bones, the box, basically the brains that are going into that system, all the infrastructure that goes to that. Getting it from that box down to the various rooms of the fire station is the coming up on us to do that. That's where that funding comes from. So they are paying their portion of it to get the bare bones, you know, to all the 30 plus fire stations throughout the county. Right. They not many changes we've made not necessarily have done that. Correct. 80 grand does not reflect the total cost. That it reflects our total cost. Not totally. Not the total cost of the product and it's throughout the county. So in the unfunded request for the new position, the finance assistant and the fire department, all of those unfunded new positions, there's a recommendation for salary increases? Is that in additional to the across the board 3% or light? Would that be on top of the? They already included Commissioner Hartman, the salary that you see, that includes the proposed 3%s. And then they added the 5% to that. So that's not my experience of the virus. It's a system that... Right. Yes. It's not fired apart. Sorry. I'm sorry. I think that's all the questions I had. You know, looking forward to the workshops and when we really get into the meat of all of us. Yeah, I want to thank the Finance Department for doing this job and I'm grateful to, we're going to, this is the start of a detailed process that we will certainly do some due diligence on as you can tell by our glee about these numbers. On page two, when we asked the question about the costs of the brand and Senator Coste the golf course, those, the net that you gave a 302,000 for brand and 278, how did you calculate the revenue? What assumptions did you make to make that offset work? So the leisure services director and I kind of worked on that together and based on what activities they're expecting to do next year and ticket charges, that type of stuff. Golf Course, mainly looking back at historical revenues, what they actually brought in. Great, that gives me a lot more confidence, very, very good. I appreciate that. Thank you very much, Lee. I heard Commissioner Perrine light up when we talked about page 5, this percentage of 83.59 is on the residents back. And the conversation about the potential for why Orman has slid into the number 2 spot might be their other contributions through commercial. Can you check their work, see if that's a lot higher than us, but I will get it for you. Be good to know. City Commissioner Shanahan, you get that from her. I'm sure. Because it is an initiative that we've talked about a lot of I'm sure you can get that from her. I'm sure. Because it is an initiative that we've talked about a lot about our citizens sustaining 83% and how that is tolerating the 83% and how as cost of government goes up, it will not be sustainable for a healthy city. I'm on page seven and so this is the average cost of a home or the mean median median median market value median or median. Median, market value. Median or mean. And you don't have any. Median, market value. Median. Oh, that's a more meaningful value. Well, that's much better than the mean. Excellent. It's a median, right? The largest group. Okay. Very good. That's helpful. That will mean more to more residents, even if they don't understand the math. And I unlike the comparison, understand, understood about what's going on in Orman. College on page 10, you talk about the, you have spoke eloquently about how the reserve fund works and been a good education for me. It's a floating fund and sometimes paybacks do not occur in the same physical year. Expenses do not occur in the same physical year and so we should expect that number to go up and down up and down continuously as we go. The, the, and just for clarity and one more time for those watching these two or three pages of funded outlay requests are to be discussed at our workshop or candidates to be discussed at our workshop. Just to be clear, the funded are included in the budget. They're in the budget, that's right. They're in the budget, but we must approve them. The unfunded ones are not in the budget, but they fall lower on the priority scale according to the department heads. And even I asked the department heads to put that in the priority. So when you look at the unfunded, the top one is a priority. If we need to add, that's a priority as well. So. And as a look at the unfunded what I don't see is flagler I see the huge nearly $3 million expense for streetlights on Canal and Atlantic. A prioritization that I'm not yet comfortable with. When I, you know, I have not seen the dark areas of Atlantic, but I'll check those out. Flagler is really included. Flagler is under. Flagler's in there as funded because we got the ARPA fund for it. So Flagler is what she was talking about is South Atlantic. Yeah. So there's an item here under unfunded for 2.7 million. So Canal and South Atlantic and Canal is 1.6. And South Atlantic is 1.1. And that add up to the 2.7 million. The flagler improvements and lights are in this year's budget. So it's not for next year. Excellent. Makes me happy. Jason, what is, what part of South Atlantic we talked about? This is from Flagler to fifths. Okay. The section that we have improved back in. Okay, perfect. We also have issues on North Atlantic. So I think that they're recognized. Thank you. Yeah, I'll that they're recognized. I'll check that out. Two things. Going back to Vice Mayor and Prins idea, I would say I really like about what wouldn't it be marvelous if we didn't have to increase it at all? What a statement that would make for our residents. And if we could gamble on the reserve fund that is appealing, but we need to dig deeper to find out what the consequences of that would be, I think. On the personnel side, I, for Director Kid, please come prepared when we talk about those increases in pay. In government activities I've been with previously there were merit increases as you got longevity. I understand we don't do that here anymore. And so I would love to know what the course of years has been since the last raise for each of those that were cited there so that we're not gilding the lily but we are doing what is right, if that makes sense to you. In other words, Randy asked the question, is this on top, you know, is the 3%, is the 5% increase on top of the 3% making an 8% increase? And when was their last, my question is when was their last increase and the one before that? So if an employee has been here for 15 years and has not seen anything, that's one case. But if somebody's been here 15 years and every three years, they get to, you know, 7 or 8%. That would be a different, a different opinion from my chair of what was right. The last two years every employee has gotten at least a three percent increase. Which is, which is, it seems like that's been annual, yeah? That's like a cola or something, right? I got that one cold. But I see there's a five percent pump in there for a couple positions, right? I'll just like to know the history of those positions for the people in there. Just so I can see, did they get one last year, the year before, five years ago, 10 years ago? When was the last one? Okay. That makes sense? We'll do that. We'll do that at the workshop for you. Thank you, sir. So your recommendation city manager is for us to hone in on the point five or point two five increase in your stronger recommendations the point two five. As the ceiling did mean that today if we said that we're we have to do that at the next meeting but that would be the ceiling. That would be the ceiling you could go lower as I mentioned you could go lower to the lowest you want to, but you cannot go any higher. And I just want to point out one thing. The backbone of the city is the employees. And if we don't take care of the employees, you know, we're losing employees because of the competition out there with other cities. My recommendation is specifically on page 26. I think we have to take care of, I mean, they have, when we hire them, we hire them at all rates, with the understanding that at some point I will adjust you. And I haven't done that. I have not done that because of the budget. So again, I do that because I know how these employees vary to the city. And they, without these employees, I mean, they work behind the scenes. They do a lot of stuff above and beyond their job descriptions, all of them. The average person don't see that. I see it, and I feel feel it and I appreciate it. I appreciate that, sir. Thank you. I don't mean by my comments to insinuate that we have anything but the best. I want to be fair and transparent for our residents to know that we don't gild the lily and just heap on top of that, that we are being fair and that we don't guild the lily and just heap on top of that, that we are being fair and that we are adequately compensating in comparison to other cities. So, whether that would be helpful if we knew what competitive cities were for those positions. Let's say, Port Arne, Jorman, blah, blah, blah. And if you could help us with that, that would be good. and blah blah blah, and if you could help us with that, that would be good. I was just gonna just sort of add, this is once again, is salary only. Because we also have to remember, every time we increase salary, we increase the retirement plan compensation. It's not just that dollar, and we are increasing the percentage every three year, you know, if we did 3% but leaving out the total cost of an employee and I know in some places where salary might not be as good but retirement could be fabulous. So we want to balance out. So package, package comparisons please not just salary if that's okay, that's very helpful. And we'll do that, Mayor Poria. My comments were just not just to kind of, I guess maybe add a recommendation to what I was thinking about that specific sheet there, 26. We know each of those players in the value they add, and it's significant. Okay, any follow-up, any read-addresses, read-attacks? Okay, and so, Madam City Attorney, if you don't mind, would you read Resolution 4824 for consideration? A resolution of the City of Nusmerna Beach, Florida, sunsetting the INS 2005 debt service, providing for conflicting resolutions and providing for an effective date. All right. So this is to retire the debt service for 2005. So a motion to adopt 4824? So moved. So motion in a second, any discussion, any questions about that? Seeing none, Madam City Clerk, please call the roll. Vice Mayor Prin. Yes. Commissioner McGurk. Yes. Commissioner Hartman. Yes. Commissioner Martin. Yes. Mayor Cleveland. Yes. Thank you. 4824 has been adopted. And now if you don't mind,'am Madam City Attorney 4924 please. Resolution number 4924 resolution of the City of East Vernon Beach Florida establishing a proposed FY 24 25 I and S 2018 debt service maximum military providing for conflicting resolutions and providing for an effective date and the millage in this resolution is .0914. There's a motion. Is there a second and a second? This is through a set the debt service rate for the 2018 debt service to point zero nine one four. Any discussion on that? Any questions? Clarity needed Madam City clerk, please call the roll. Commissioner McGurk. Yes. Commissioner Hartman. Yes. Commissioner Martin. Yes. Place Mayor Pring. Yes. Mayor Cleveland. Yes. Thank you. 49-24 is going to adopt it. And now, ma'am, if you don't mind, resolution 50-24. Resolution number 50-24. Resolution of the City of Nismerna Beach, Florida, establishing a proposed FY 2425 general fund maximum military, providing for public hearing dates for a budget adoption, providing for conflicting resolutions and providing for an effective date. And the military included in this resolution as drafted as 4.637. Is there a motion to adopt resolution 5024? We have a motion and a second. Any? I can. Yes, thank you, ma'am. Any further discussion? May I notify you? Yes, sir, please. So this resolution is written based on the village that I appoint this one here. But if you can add to it, you have to make the changes. That's what that was my question. What point do we add either the point to five point five is here. Yeah. Okay. So let's discuss that some more. We have a motion in a second. And we can have a discussion. What is your feeling there? Guys that have been here longer than we knew these. Where should we go? What is your feeling there? Guys that have been here longer than we newbies. Where should we go? So I'd rather see the max millis rate at 4.99 for the total. Yeah, I can agree with that, but I'm also interested in what the new people seem to think about this too. I can go with a 4.99 city manager. Knowing that we can dial it back, I don't care. So I can do 4.99, I don't expect it to land there. But I understand why we would choose 4.99. But with a healthy reserve and some real close looking at what we're doing, I think we can dial it back. Will be adopt the final budget. Yeah, and it's going to have to do with how much, you know, what people run into budget. And that's what we're going to work out. Yeah. Well, the dial it back as much as we need to. So with the knowledge that we can dial it back, I would go along with 4.99. All right, that was your motion. And that's, we haven't heard from Commissioner Perrine. Ellie, what do you think about that? I said, I'm not going to really go higher. I think we've, we can dial back like Mr. Martin said. I don't want to go 4.99. I don't want to go that high. So that adds which, at 4.99 is which of the millage increases, the 0.5? You know, that would be just roughly about the point two five. That would be that brings a do four nine nine. Yeah, okay. Just I wanted to make it before. Doesn't mean that you have, I mean again, it doesn't mean that you have to use the four point nine nine. It just gives you that flexibility. That's the point two five increase. Yep. And Valley that's the one you tried the second, right? I I seconded the 4.673, 4.6370. I mean the most I will do is the very minimum, the .25, but I don't even really want to do that. I would rather do the .1 or nothing at all, the zero bell increase. And mayor, if you add the point two five, it would be four point eight eight seven. Yeah, I'm looking at it now. I see it. I see it. Higher than I want to go, I'll go just a little bit to cover those wages that we accidentally missed. But I agree with our mayor. I think we need to have more information on the salaries. They're jumping a lot more than I've seen in a long time and I don't have anything to justify that. If there's a huge discrepancy, I can see we could do that. But with what we have in funded, I was trying to add up that one page with a salary, the how much that is, because this point one jumped in from a 2.86 to 2.9.2, that should cover those wage increases. Gotcha. So that should cover those wage increases. Gotcha. So we've got, we're in a couple different places here. We've got, as we consider this, for resolution 5024, I think we'll need a motion with more specificity to either be at what? A motion on a floor in a second that it's at 4.7 or whatever it was. Let's clarify if we could. Which is the 0.01 mill, the 4.7? The 4.67 is the one that's on the floor. 4.637 with an increase of zero mill is what's on the floor. May I amend the motion? I think you made it. So I think you may. I'd like to amend the motion to adopt resolution number 50-24 with a .25 mill increase taking it to 4.8870 maximum absolute maximum millage increase. Okay that's the motion there was a second to the previous one. Seconds that. Okay so that's where we are so Valley as a point of just as clarification you already approved the 0.0914 increase on top of that already you adopted the 2018 debt service so you already you'd have to add that to the 4.887 correct correct so that brings it to the four four point but but for this particular resolution we don't use that total combined number right yeah but it's the reason it just wise to point that out what does that bring it to call that bring it to the 4.99 when you add that that's your it's I'm gonna add to it thank you 9.7 4.978 4.978 4 if you add the that the 4.9784. Thank you. Okay. So we know what the end effect is. We've been corrected by the city attorney that says that's not what's on the table, but that is the net effect. So everybody knows exactly what they're what the second order implication is. But this motion is to increase by point two five for resolution 5024. The number the new number for 5024 will be 4.8870. So motion a second we've had some discussion any further discussion on that. And I understand Commissioner Burin you're saying no point point one or no increase that's your view right? I would just either go ZRO 4.1 to give us a little bit of a variance because we can figure out a lot of this. I'm trying to line out and research. Okay Madam City Clerk please call the roll. Commissioner Harpman. Yes. Commissioner Martin. Yes. Vice Mayor Prin. Yes. Commissioner McGurt. Yes. Mayor Cleveland. Yes. Okay. 5024 is adopted. So what's point two five through just to clarify because they got a report back point two five. So you added the 4.870. So 5024 is adopted. Madam City Attorney, if you would read 5124, please. Resolution number 5124. A resolution of the City of Nysmer to Beach, Florida setting the proposed $8.667 monthly or $104 annually per equivalent drainage unit establishing the equivalent drainage unit for non-residential and multi-family properties providing for conflicting resolutions and providing an effective date. Thank you ma'am. Is there a motion for approval? Motion to approve resolution 5124. I will second for discussion. Great good. Okay. There's a motion of second. Let's talk about it. Considering the amount of flooding issues that we've had in the city, I would like to increase this a bit to get our store water fund in a better position to handle all the work we need to do to remediate and prepare for flooding issues. And as much as I hate the thought of increasing anything, when we have so many residents that are asking so much for help from flooding issues. Such, and we've got all of Corbin Park and we have the historic West Side and we have very little store water infrastructure on the beach side. We've got a lot of areas and a lot of work to do. And so I would propose raising this to $950 or $10 a month to get a better balance in our store water fund. If I may, may I? The increase that we have is a CPI increase, which means we have gone through the public hearings on it. If you need to increase additional to that, I think you have to have public hearings. It would be an ordinance revision. Thank you for that clarification. Then that would end my discussion of this, but I would request that we look at making an ordinance for it. So where I don't disagree with you, I think we could address that by doing a fund transfer from the general fund into the storm water fund or a certain project going down as we go through the process. Well, it's a moot point since we can't do anything with it tonight anyway. I think what she's asking is the increase in the stormwater at the T3, I think for future projects, not just one project, and I think she's just planning ahead. Building reserve, yeah. But it's a moot point. We can't do anything with it tonight anyway. So I second the motion. Okay, we have a motion and a second to set the storm water utility fee at 8.667 per month or $104 a year. Any more discussion? Any clarity needed? Madam City Clerk, please call the roll. Commissioner Martin. I'm going to drop me. Yes. Vice Mayor Perine. Yes. going to turn me. Yes. Vice Mayor Perine. Yes. Commissioner McGurk. Yes. Commissioner Hartman. Yes. Mayor Cleveland. Yes. Thank you. Okay. 51-24 has been adopted. Is there a motion to adopt a resolution 5224. And I'm unclear as to what 5224? So this is an unrelated to the proposed FY 2425. It's a budget amendment that we normally see on our consent agenda. So for fiscal year 2324, yeah. Yes. All right. So moved. A motion. Second. Any discussion or need for clarity? In the under discussion in the future, I'd like to see a staff report on exactly what it just says is replacing the air conditioner. Did it die as a quit? Is it need of repair? Is it under warranty? Is that good? There was no staff report attached to that so I think this one just came and On the rush so but I agree with you Yeah, I just think in the future that would be helpful to understand the reasoning Absolutely, I concur 100% and this typically wouldn't be here if it wasn't a emergency purchase I assume so this is for one of the ACs on the brand center. There's four units and one of them is totally not functional. It's died 100%. So this is funding transferring from some CIP projects that had access and POs that were closed out to fund that purchase immediately in this current fiscal year. Okay. Director Salazar, do we have replaced one earlier this year for the brand center? Yes we did. This is two of the three. There's four units. Four? Yes sir. Any? Do we know I failed? Good. Maintenance opts to the rescue. Thank you Kevin. Wait does this mean it stops freezing in the Brandon Center at the moment? Yes. Thank you. Good. Maintenance. Opps to the rescue. Thank you. Does this mean it's not freezing in the Brandon Center at the moment? Yes. I know. I'm happy. Happy. Nice. Yeah. Just for clarity, the units that we're talking about are 12 years old expected life cycle in these types of units is about 15 years before we really start to see catastrophic failure because they're positioned outside exposed to the elements. We are seeing that timeline accelerated a little bit. When the one died last year, it was a 15 ton, so we did a analysis of all of them. We put a recommendation out at that time that we should actually budget for every year, for the next four years to replace a 15, a 25, a 15, a 25, so that they're not all the exact same age. And we are purchasing, I'm gonna mess the name up, but a coding on them to extend the life. Yeah, I can't remember the exact name of it, but to try and actually get us to that 15 to 18 year range, moving forward. But we recommended it. It's just so happened that they are now we're getting them serviced regularly which Could in fact be because we're in there messy we're on with them. You know this mayor Add this replacement To echo what Kevin said would have been in fiscal year 25 But because of the priority we're pushing it to now and using funding this turn here. Thank you. Appreciate that, Rob. Thank you. Okay, motion and the second Madam City Clerk, please call the roll. Nice mayor Prin. Yes. Commissioner McGurk. Yes. Commissioner Harvman. Yes. Commissioner Martin. Yes. Mayor Cleveland. Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much. Any comments from the commission will go up and down the line. Commissioner. in our workshop though, we just approved one and a half million over for the millage is to put the impact if we end up using that or how that equals to our proper tax payments like an an estimate increase that helped last year we had that and they saw that it was really only going to be like $100 or whatever we end up going with that year. For an average house of like the $477 medium range if we just add in what that impacts their average property tax bill would be beneficial. Okay, well nodding in the head, that'll happen. Thank you. Any other comments, ma'am? Thank you very much. Commissioner Hartman. No, just to hope you all had a safe and good summer, good to be back. Well, it's going to be interesting, I'm sure, during the next couple of months. Absolutely. Commissioner McGurt. Look forward to the budget process, always do. And we'll come to, I'm confident we'll find a middle ground to settle in at. Perfect, Commissioner Martin. I'm good, thank you. So just a reminder, August 1st, public meeting at the Brandon Center 5 PM to discuss and learn what our parking consultant has to say. The commission workshop, 7th of August, it's a Wednesday, starts at 9, goes to 4 to do budget. And then the regular city commission meeting Tuesday, August 13th, right here in the Chamber at 630. Mr. City-Mander, anything from you, sir? Just want to thank all the departments and the finance department in particular, Shiliza and Herstaff. And also we welcome Kenneth. He came in late in the game, but he's catching up with us. This is not an easy process when you do the budget. It's really, it's a very intense, very complicated. But at the end of the day, I think, normally, we try to do the best we can in terms of the funds that we have available. So I'm going to keep in mind, you know, I'm a taxpayer. So in a month, I would be out of this dius and I would be paying taxes. So I want to make sure that I don't pay that much. So thank you. We would expect to see a public petition, a participation regularly. I would be at your budget's workshops for sure. Madam City Clerk, anything from you, ma'am? No sir. Madam City Attorney. No sir. Very well. With that said, we're adjourned.