Welcome everybody to the special committee on the future of downtown. It is Monday, July 22nd. 10 a.m. let's go around and start with some introductions. Ms. Hampsy, we'll start with you. Colleen Hampsy, Councilor Research. Office of no microphone. That's Mary Stifopolisolis Office of General Counsel. Philip Peterson, Counselor's office. Good morning, Chris Miller at large group 5 City Council. Kevin Caricote, District 4. Joe Carlucci, District 5. I'm on air, Redstone, Gaffin, and Virginia District 8. Randy White, District Doyle, District Visiting. Ron Salem, Group 2 at largele just visiting Ron Salem group to at large just visiting and Matt Karloot she group four at large just visiting All right all right special announcement to the past president started this committee and the current president who kept it going any words For you mr. President Thank you mr. Carecoe Just want thank you all for Obviously we're continuing this committee that president slaylon started because the work is not finished. I just wanted to come down and listen a few minutes and thank you for what you'll do. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much, Mr. President. I saw some media out front getting ready but I don't see them in here today. I had a special message for them. Are you here? Oh, you get you get it all in. Sorry. Yeah, so I did want to state some of the coverage of this committee by the media, stating that the work of this committee is somehow impeding or slowing down the work of downtown and DIA. I find that to be misleading and false. As a council, we form special committees to look into issues and opportunities to make things better. We have not made any recommendations or filed any legislation or done anything to in any way change the process of DIA. So to state that having this committee is slowing down, the work of downtown is irresponsible in my opinion. I just want to put that on the record. Mr. Diamonds not here. So I was going to give him a quick update. We did issue a subcommittee to look into the parking so Mr Diamonds is over that and is going to get a subcommittee schedule so we can look into that but other than that are there any comments from the committee members are opening thoughts before we get into the agenda? Council member Carlucci Joe. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to let everyone know on this committee and some of the folks in the audience. I've just been having a lot of conversations with downtown developers, DIA, but DIA is lower boreer than board. I'm trying to work on the mayor's office as well. I've engaged with them. Just to work on you know what what maybe a focused area and a focus for the city core might look like. So once I get done with kind of formulating all that in a non-rough draft form I'd like to just bring it to this committee and just share that and we can see see if that works and see if that can get adopted. So I just wanted to brief everybody on that. Thank you. All right. Thank you for your work behind scenes. Anybody else? All right. So the first item on the agenda is really just unfinished business. We started to go a little long last meeting, but we did have on our meeting last time to get an update on just kind of DIA projects at a high level some of the big projects that we've all seen. We've seen the renderings. We've seen some deals. We've heard some rumors, things that happening that are not happening. So I hope that we could just get an update for the public. So we can all be on the same page. So if Miss Boyer would come on down and kind of give us that update on those big projects. I think we all know them, but if you leave any out, we'll remind you of which ones we maybe won an update on, but if you could do that for us, that'd be great. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Lori Boyer, CEO, Downtown Investment Authority. Oh, look at that. There's a PowerPoint on the screen. There you go. I was cautious when I sent it to you yesterday as a hard copy that I didn't want to deviate from the council president's request that we not do power points. And I don't want to run through the whole thing from a project standpoint. However, we can get to the end of it and kind of go through a few select projects that are going on. I'd say very high level from a budget standpoint and then from a project standpoint. So from a budget standpoint, the North Bank has approximately $18 million of revenue in the tax increment district annually, about $14 million of that is tax revenue. It has about $1 million of overhead that includes OGC costs and other things that are charged to us, office space rental, et cetera. It has about $7 million a year of annual financial obligations. That's rev grant payments were making other things that we already have as contractual, which right now leaves us on the North Bank, about $10 million a year is that I would call discretionary income. When we met, we talked about spending about $2 million a year on that on replenishing the programs that we fund. So retail enhancement grants, facade grants, all of those affordable housing support loans, like we've provided for Vescoor in the past. Those are about 725 each when we do those. So about two million off that top goes to that. That leaves about eight million a year and that eight million a year is primarily funding capital projects right now, such as the two-way street conversion, such as several other elements, music heritage garden, riverfront plaza, et cetera. So we can go into detail on those if you have questions, but that's kind of big picture. That's the North Bank Tax Increment Budget. South Bank Tax Increment Budget. The South Bank Tax Incre budget, the South Bank tax increment budget is roughly about $7.8 million or close to $8 million. Five million of that right now is financial obligations. So in addition, when you take out the overhead that leaves you about $2 million again to fund the existing programs that we do annually where we're replenishing those as well as capital projects. And there are capital projects that were involved in on the South Bank as well. So that kind of is how the internal resources from the tax increment district are used. And again, I provided you those documents. You can see specific projects and we can go into questions on those if you want. So that's kind of the big picture in that regard. I provided you the commitment tracking sheet that we give to Councilman Salem had initiated that as a request that we provide every time we provide legislation that has a request from the general fund. It identifies in out years. It also identifies the actual tax increment district obligations. But the most important thing for you is it identifies in out years financial obligations of the general fund. And I know that is something that the finance committee and others on council have focused on and express concern about the level of those commitments in various years going forward. So you have a copy of that. The copy that you have shows gateway not being included in the numbers by year at the top because it hasn't been approved by council yet. It's pending legislation before you, but it does show it on the bottom of the sheet and what years it would fall in. So gateway has a total of approximately $39 million of completion grants for four projects. And it's spread over three years. And those completion grants yield about 1,000 residential units, 1,100 residential units, 75,000 square feet of retail. And those four blocks of activation, plaza on Pearl Street, between them. A lot of different things are rolled up in that project, but generally it is about a three to four hundred million dollar private capital investment and the 39 million completion grant is in addition to RevGrants. What you also do not have in the commitment tracking sheet are two developments that are going to MVRC this afternoon. So they've been approved by our board. One of them is the related project, a luxury high rise on the South Bank. Related had a previous more suburban style mid rise approved that they declined to move forward on. They came back with the luxury high rise. It is about 340 units. It has over 200 million of private capital investment. It has a request for a $39 million completion grant out of the general fund in addition to the rev grant. So you will see that. In addition, there is also the RISE DORO project. That's the project in the Sports Entertainment District that had the fire back in February. That is coming back. They have agreed and are request to add some affordable housing in the project. So they're committing 85 units in the project to affordable housing. In exchange for that, our board approved a $3 million completion grant for their commitment to provide affordable housing. And we also authorized a $1 million completion grant that is basically paid upon execution of the redevelopment agreement that is compensation for the rapid way in which they were able to handle the demolition and cleanup that allowed the other venues in the stadium area to reopen. So both private businesses like manifest and others, but also the baseball grounds, the garage associated, et cetera. And so they bore the cost of that without knowing what insurance proceeds they would get or how that would be covered from a reimbursement perspective. And so that's what that million dollars reflects. So those are things, not on commitment tracking, that are coming in the future financially and are three major transactions from a project standpoint that will be coming prospectively. From the slide perspective, if we can flip all the way down to where we get to the projects and we'll skip everything in the beginning that talks about momentum, you can look at that at your leisure, food and beverage growth. Okay, and we can just go through these very quickly so you get kind of a bigger picture of what's under construction and what are the projects in downtown. So the first is the Artiswalk skate park that is coming to council. I believe on an emergency for we finally got FDOT approval to open it up. It's already constructed. Parks Department has been working on this. It is a great facility. People may have been jumping the fence to try to use it already but we finally have DOT authorization for it. Next slide. And these are some pictures. So these all have pictures of under construction or where we are. Next. Park Street Road Diet. That is now under construction. That's a CIP project. So the Park Street Road Diet connects from the Emerald Trail near the Convention Center where it comes over the viaduct down to Forest Street. That project has been on the budget. The budget is a budget that is not going to be the budget. The budget is going to be the budget that is going to be the budget that is going to be the budget that is going to be the budget that is going to be the budget that is going to be the budget that is going to be the budget that is going to be the budget that is going to be the budget that is going to be the budget that and it's somewhat inconvenient while it is. But the good news is we have a private developer who has acquired a number of parcels adjacent to that project who has been waiting for that project to begin. They have a 300 unit plus mixed use building that they would like to start as soon as possible. They will be asking for a small completion grant to bridge their financial gap. Don't have the number and don't have the timing of that, but just sharing that's in the pipeline from a pipeline standpoint. Next slide. This is Park Street. These are, it's more torn up now because they're actually putting on underground utilities this week. Next. Home to sweets, home to sweets has just been completed and many of you thank you attended the grand opening in the ribbon cutting of this. And this is hotel in Brooklyn. Next. Pictures of home to sweets. Next. One Riverside Avenue. This is the Fuqua and TribRI bridge development on the side of the former Times Union publishing building. Phase one residential is well under construction. Phase two and phase one retail has started construction. Phase two residential happens after we get the creek work completed. You'll see a couple pictures that show where we are. I know we recently had a settlement agreement that you approved regarding the timing of the delivery of the creek work. This is the residential construction. You can see why they are concerned about us being on schedule with the delivery of the creek. Next. You can see the creek under construction now. That work is proceeding on schedule that is a city CIP project and probably one of the more important CIP projects you are doing downtown. This was the FEMA number one rated flood mitigation project for the city of Jacksonville for about 10 years and not funded. And finally when that was funded and you have account what that does is it takes over 150 properties out of the flood zone dramatically improves flooding in the vicinity of McCoy's Creek Boulevard upstream as well as in this area So part of the reason we were doing that riverfront development is we had to widen the channel and open it up It was previously buried under a parking lot in order to be able to do the McOis Creek project. So one thing leads to another. Next. Emerald Trail Levella link, many of you attended the opening, that is complete and now open. As you can see that connects to Park Street so we're now moving to Levella. Next, that's picture of the opening. Lift every voice in Sing Park. I saw a few of you there at the ground right here or opening of that ribbon cutting of that as well. We're still sweating from that by the way. That is now open. Next. You can see pictures under construction. There's a little bit more to be done on the road. There's stamped kind of graphics to be included on the pavement as well as some lighting on the street that we're still working on next. Johnson Commons these are the town homes adjacent to lift every voice and sing that are under construction eventually 91 town homes next and we receive a portion of the proceeds of every sale of a unit over I believe it's 200 and I don't remember what the break point is we changed it it was 250,000 I think we raised it might have been 280 or 300 at that point, but we have received a little bit on at least one of the closing so far but you can see that's progressing nicely next Performing art center musical heritage garden. Now we're moving into city center. And this is a parcel between the performing arts center and the riverfront. The bulkhead has just been completed. And we're now working on the park space between the performing arts center and the riverfront. And there will also be a projection tower there that allows us to project a nightly show on the facade of the performing arts center. Next, designs of that and concepts. Next, riverfront plaza under construction. This is the phase one portion under construction. Let's see what we have in terms of the picture. So this shows you where the two CRA retained parcels are. And the portion that is under construction right now is everything from the circle at Lourish Street, the roundabout at Lourish Street, over to the west, including the Hogan Street Plaza, as well as the entire bulkhead and the entire river walk. Next. Keep going. Thank you. See the bulkhead cranes are there. Hogan street cycle track. Hogan street cycle track runs from riverfront plaza up to FSCJ. That is nearing design completion and is to be the construction of the construction. The construction is a construction construction. The construction is a construction. The construction is a construction. The construction is a construction. The construction is a construction. The construction is a construction. The construction is a construction. The construction is a construction. that runs and the imagery of it. So Hogan Street remains one way, travel has one lane of parking, but has a full two-way cycle track as well as expanded sidewalks. This is a food and beverage district. This is one of the core areas that we're suggesting. We had an internal DIA board meeting about if we were to focus in the core, what are projects we could do on this corridor to create a really vibrant, you know, concentrated area. Next. Another view of the Hogan Street cycle track. Next. Two-way road conversions. Forsyth and Adams is under construction. CRA funded. Go to the next slide. The dark purple lines there represent all of the various two-way conversion streets. So you see the work that was being done mostly at night. Now they're starting daytime work because they're actually changing out signal heads. This is the actual conversion of the traffic is supposed to be completed by December of this year. End of this year. Next. The Gateway Development, which is Pearl Street District, is the one I mentioned earlier. This shows you the N4 and 5 and 8 and 11 blocks that you will see. And those are the references they use to the four projects that are part of the package that is going to, that is before you now in City Council. Next, some imagery that has gone through downtown development review board. Next, Loftsick Cathedral, affordable housing in the Cathedral District. This project is nearing completion. Under construction right now, we expect it to be completed around September. Next, pictures, these are little dated on the pictures. They're further along than that now. That's probably 30 or 45 days ago when we did these pictures. Next. And you see the rendering, so what it will look like when it's complete. Keep going. Union Terminal Warehouse, this is right on the boundary of downtown. Union Terminal Warehouse received a historic preservation, DPRP, completion grant from council, and they are under construction, progressing nicely. They have asked us for an extension for a few months for completion. They were supposed to be complete by August, but they still expect to be complete this year. Slides, next. You can see some of the interiors of units actually being finished, et cetera. One of the interesting things about Union Terminal Warehouse is it had an old rail line that went under the warehouse and that will become the Emerald Trail link as it goes through and under the warehouse and is covered in this area. Next. Shipyards West Park. Shipyards West Park is in design by the parks department and we have a rendering I believe or a site plan of it next. I know they finished 60% I don't know where they are in terms of between 60 and 100% right now. You'll see there is an out-pursal there that is the CRA redevelopment Purcell that was not subject to the state grant restriction at the time when we had to move the grant to allow the development of the four seasons over to this parcel for Park Use. The green area is the area where the restriction applies and this is where the USS Orlick is located and this is where the Fire Museum is located. And so all of that becomes this is why the USS Orlick is located, and this is where the Fire Museum is located. And so all of that becomes, this is why you'll hear it in the media referred to as the, I don't think they call it Museum Complex Museum Zone, something because Mosh is located right across the creek, and you'll see that next. There's the Mosh site, Museum of Science and History, right across Hogan's Creek. Next, an early rendering of Mosh. As you know, Mosh made their fundraising deadline to raise $40 million of private funds by the end of June and did provide a documentation of that. I do know that the CIP includes a CIP project for MASH as well. Next. Four seasons and offices. Well under construction. If you've been down there lately, you'll see it coming out of ground. Both the four seasons and the office building. Next picture. Some of the pilings that when they were under construction, again, these are a couple months old but it is well underway. Next Metropolitan Park again parks department project that they have hired Syvitas and are redesigning the park to coordinate. We had a meeting Friday in fact to talk about coordination with WJCT because we have park work going on on one side and a new fire station being built on the other side and WJCT in the middle and we need to make sure everybody's plans work together. Next. This is one of the civitas images. Next. Rivers edge now skipping across the river. In the south bank, rivers edge. This is the former south Side generating station site. This is being developed right now by President Hollow, capital out of Texas. And we are now in vertical construction on the toll brothers town homes, as well as the CRA has funded with this year's budget, will fund the final tranche of a $23 million obligation to fund the roads, the bulkhead, for acres of parks, et cetera. Those parks are due to be completed near the end of this year, beginning of next year, and they will be open to the public by spring of 25. Next, renderings of when it's fully built out, and we should have pictures of toll brothers vertical construction maybe. No, you see the marsh boardwalk, you see the roads are in. Again, I do have pictures of the toll brothers vertical construction now that's underway. It's in the parcel along the marsh front as opposed to on the river front. Next, Artia and the star is in the wrong location here. Forgive me. Artea is actually located and I don't know that I can do it with the cursor. Artea is located near the boundary near River's edge. It is a corner lot development over close to Channel 4 and over 300 units under construction. Next slide. You'll see that construction is also progressing nicely. So when I say there's a thousand units under construction right now, you can see them physically under construction. Next slide. St. John's River Park and Friendship Fountain. Friendship Fountain has opened, as you know, well attended, the shows in the evening. There is a projection show coming on that that has been produced. the . The . The show is in the evening. There is a projection show coming on that that has been produced and in addition the remainder of the park space around it is being developed. We will have playground. The CRA is funding a restaurant location that is beginning design right now. Small restaurant that would face the fountain. Next, renderings of that, a little bit about the attendance, jump once the fountain reopened, probably no surprise to anyone. Next, related multifamily development that I spoke of right next to the boat ramp and right next to Friendship Fountain and St. John's River Park. Immediately to the left of that under the Acosta Bridge, the CRA city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of So that's project update of the projects that are underway right now in downtown. If you wanted me to address both the American Lion's site and the courthouse site, I'm seeing the chair not. The last two on my list, yes. There are two other property dispositions that the DIA entertained of Riverfront Pursals in 2021 and 2022. One of them was that private development pads you see next to the Main Street Bridge and Independent Drive on Riverfront Plaza. American Lions was awarded the bid on that. What happened with their bid, however, and it's really the same story with Carter on the courthouse site, although different design, in the case of Carter on the courthouse site and in the case of American Lions, between the time they made a proposal to us about what they were going to build and what they needed in incentives and it was accepted as a bid proposal. Interest rates run up, construction costs went up and they could no longer perform on the terms that were included in the bid. So at that point we had to go back and renegotiate with them, reopen it up, and neither one of them, we were in a position where we would have needed significant completion grants, like you're seeing on these other purses. The distinction being, these requests on these other purses are privately owned property. In these two cases, they were asking us to provide publicly owned riverfront property. For projects that I would say were stretch projects. So I think it was a fair decision of staff and of the board to go for something that was worthy of the riverfront. I am confident that we could have had a suburban style, five story frame construction apartment built on either site without a completion grant. We just thought those sites were worth a more significant more iconic building than that. The hardwake building that was proposed on the Ford on Bay site, the old courthouse side. Very interesting architecture, kind of a retro tribute to Taylor Hardwick. It very resilient, had a lot of features built in to accommodate flood resiliency on the riverfront. So I don't think it was a mistake to award it to them. I just think what happened in the market put us in a position where they could not move forward on the terms they had agreed to. I will tell you that both Carter and American Lions remain interested in Jacksonville. American Lions in particular would like to build on that site, on the Riverfront Plaza site. They just want direction as to when we will make it available and on what terms. And we actually included in your email yesterday is a memo that went out to our board Friday for a workshop that we are having this coming Wednesday on the 24th to talk about riverfront partial dispositions. So it's talking about the courthouse site, the riverfront plaza site, and what we're calling the East landing site. That's the parking lot between Main Street Bridge and the Hyatt. And so we will be having at the board level, if anyone wants to join by Zoom or in person, a discussion about what the parameters would be and when we would entertain disposition conversations about those. The thought process on the riverfront plaza parcel and you'll see it in that memo that you were given, is that that parcel should really be, it's such a valuable parcel to us as a city, it should be throwing off money to help maintain and program that park. As opposed to us having to give them so much money to develop it, that it's a ROI of one and we're not really receiving any economic benefit. So if from a market standpoint, we have to wait two years, finish the park or wait at and let the market adjust and let some of these other projects come online that are already before you. That will help drive the market to make these more valuable and hopefully give us the proposition that you would see in other cities. When you're looking in Tampa or Miami and those private developments do help fund the public infrastructure and the programming of those sites so certainly open if council or the board disagrees with that philosophy but you'll see it in that memo and and we welcome your thoughts and comments on the 24th and thing else I've got some members in the queue, so we'll go ahead and offer two committee members. Nope, we got Jimmy Palozo. Councilman Palozo, you're up. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Laura, for that update. And I got to say there's some real progress being done. And I'm incredibly excited for it. I'm also very excited for the related project as well as the Gateway project. And I know from the last, was it a workshop that was about two weeks ago, whatever else I sat in on, you had mentioned something I thought was pretty important for this board and for some members of the audience to hear, which is some of these new construction projects are incredibly important because they're going to help drive the tip dollars that we could then use on adaptive reuse and different major, you know, construct other infrastructure projects that are needed. So I understand the value and the need of having projects kind of on the periphery, right? I think a lot of us do. And I'm glad that we're doing that. I think what I know some of us have been critical of, some of the members of the press have been critical of, is what about the historic district and some of these older buildings that we need to make sure we are putting adaptive reuse dollars into. So do we kind of have, or can we look at the possibility of creating a more historic district plan and how we can either, I know we talked about the tier analysis, maybe getting rid of the tiers analysis for those developers that want to develop in that area or Or maybe there's an extra pot of money that we can do specifically for projects in that inner core area Is there any sort of discussion about that or something that's going to be brought up to the board in the next couple weeks months? Something like that Through the chair to councilman poluso The answer is yes so from a Staff standpoint and the workshop meeting we had with the board and by the way to the chair I agree with the comment you made at the beginning of the meeting that There is no assertion that the existence of the special committee is Causing a problem for downtown What we were trying to do as a board and we do things in the sunshine as you do Is discuss if we were going to do as a board and we do things in the sunshine as you do, is discuss if we were going to focus resources in a geographic area. If in the end we were to recommend that completion grants were only for high rises or completion grants were only on city owned property projects or only in a core area of downtown then what did that mean to other areas? How would that impact us? How would we define what the criteria were? That's the conversation we're having, and I think it's an appropriate conversation, to be able to come back to you with recommendations as to what we think makes sense in light of the bigger picture. But I mentioned Hogan Street, so we are looking specifically at Hogan and Laura Street there have been some members of the public that suggested that as well and so we have done a map of every property that is either vacant or underutilized or city owned and what opportunities are there to change that dynamic on those parcels that's that we should concentrate residential in a broader core being maybe from Liberty Street to Pearl Street or something like that. And maybe only residential in those areas was entitled to completion grants. We're also looking at a broader core being maybe from Liberty Street to Pearl Street or something like that. And maybe only residential in those areas was entitled to completion grants. to Pearl Street or something like that. And maybe only residential in those areas was entitled to completion grants. We're also looking at that. We've done a map of all the available properties in that area, which ones we think we could possibly work on. So we'd be coming back with that proposal. Third, a tack approach is this looking at the riverfront property dispositions. And then a fourth one that I want to make sure I say out loud here is our staff, and I believe our board feels strongly that we should not exclude LaVilla. That it would be a real mistake to focus on city center to the exclusion of LaVilla. And so that any plan should have an element or a set aside or something where LaVilla is also getting a focus area because that's an area where we reacquired the property. There was a lot of demolition at the hands of the city and I think it would be a mistake to not make it eligible for certain incentives. Chair, I did have two more points unless you want to go to another person. No one will feel nice today, Councilor. Thank you. So go ahead. I think that's fantastic. I mean, yeah, whether we add Lvivilla into this, that could work very well. Obviously I have Lvivilla in my district as well and I understand the needs of that community. But I do think there should be kind of a, whether it be two pots of money or whatever else, something for that historic area, and then something for the wider area, right? I know you've spoken before about, hey, you know, we're trying to get away from anything but rev grants for pretty much anyone on the periphery and maybe only completion grants for some of these inner core areas. And I think that's wise. I also want to talk about the Riverwalk and about whether or not there's kind of a contiguous plan for the fuller warn all the way to the stadium district. And if that's kind of been a discussion of DIA or something that we can kind of talk about moving forward because as I understand it right now and I'll give props to the late bloomers, you know, they showed up and they had like a map showing the different deals and contractors that were doing all the different work and different segments of the river walk and With it being one giant contiguous park or public space. Why don't we have one larger plan for it? Through the chair to Councilman Palusso two things just to clarify on the first point you made, I want to make it clear so that everybody hears it because this was part of the kind of, I think, lack of clarity in the reporting is that there would still be rev grants and all of the DIA funded retail enhancement façade grant programs, other programs throughout downtown. Those would not be geographically limited. So if we're talking about a geographic limitation, it's relating to things coming back to the general fund for completion grant. Open for business everywhere else. Secondly, with respect to your question on Riverwalk Continuity, we believe, DIA believes, and it's really a park and it's park's implementation here, that there is an adopted plan for the entire riverwalk that will ensure continuity. Regardless of who the contractor is that's building a piece or that who the contractor is that's designing a particular element. It was adopted in I think it's Bill 2019-196. There are river walk design standards that talk about what exactly the landscape materials are supposed to be and what are the thread plants that are supposed to be continuous on the river walk that they're supposed to be 70% shade everywhere and what the benches are supposed to look like and the shade sales are supposed to look like and the paper colors and all of that is very prescribed and whoever builds it still has to follow those. Now I will say that of the existing sections that need to be retrofitted to create that feel and that aesthetic, DIA has set aside funds in our capital project budgets to do that and have an RFP that will be going our RFQ that will be going out soon to get a design firm on board that can help us with that and would love to have late bloomers help in looking at which segment do we start with and making sure that the way it's being implemented is providing that continuous feel of the park on the Riverwalk. Thank you, Chair. And yeah, I would love it. I think that should be maybe briefed at the next meeting kind of what the Riverwalk will look like. Then the last thing is quick, it's about Snyder Church. It's right across the street. We look at it every day, so by the city, what's kind of held us back on that project? On which one? I mean, the church, the Snyder Church, right across the street from us. Oh, you want to hear Snyder Church too. Thank you. So, through the Chair to Councilman Paluso, Snyder Church has been part of a city CIP project that the Public Works Department has been executing. That was only completed about a year ago, but I believe there are some elements of it that then immediately, and Mr. Perola from our office can give you the detail of what element it was. I believe we did fire suppression work and they did some other work in it, but then there was something that, whether it developed a leak, whether there's something else that's still needed to be done. But that is on the list for conversation about, and in my Hogan-Lora plan that we're talking about, we're talking about how could we activate it short-term, like it used to be years ago, but that's using portalettes because there's not functioning, plumbing in there, and things like that, and we'd have to have a fire watch because it doesn't have functioning. And then what would it take? If we were to devote the resources to bring it up to a level where it could truly be used or do a disposition what would the term speak. But that's another property that decades ago there was a disposition and then the city ended up taking it back. Sounds like a one-on-one with the district councilman. I think you'll be able to fix it. Thank you, Chair. We're gonna move it along. We got a couple more people in the queue and we're already 40 minutes into a two hour meeting. So councilman Salem is up next. Past President Salem, you recognize? Thank you, through the chair, I'll be very brief. Lori, Ms. Boy, you mentioned the chart that we develop with all the completion grants scheduled out. There's a couple of major projects that I think the Finance Committee needs to understand when they're going to hit because we discuss the CBA and other things that are a year or two out. I want everyone to understand what we're committing through this government for future expenses. You mentioned related. If you could get me something that would tell me when expenses, you mentioned related, if you could get me something that would tell me when related, you anticipate related to be hitting, that 39 million. Right now the term sheet that went through. If you could just get it to me, just for the sake of time. I'll say it to you. And Gateway Jacks, when that completion grant will be hitting, if you get- And it's on the one I just sent out, the commitment tracking. How it spreads out. Well then if you would get me related and when you think that's going to hit and Dora as well when you think that's going to hit. So we've got as much information as we can. Absolutely. I'll get it to you this afternoon. Number two, parks, the parks along the river. It just seems to me the budget for these parks has just grown. We just seem to be keep putting more and more money into these parks. I think we put in 25 million a year or two ago that I thought was going to do it. And we've just put 56 million more through the CBA. Can you give me a history of when we initially funded those parks, what we've put in since then for the total dollars that are in those three parks along the North Bank. I'm happy to. I can send that to you this afternoon too. I also have it. Thank you. Thank you Chair. All right. I'm sure the rest of the finance committee and this committee and probably the whole Council might as well send it to all of us. All right. Thank you. And Councilman Arias is on the queue. Thank you Mr. Chair through the chair. This boy or the earlier and it's been a while since you said this because Jimmy took the spotlight for about 30 minutes but on your last report you mentioned and I can't remember the name of it but you said that they weren't able to be funded just because their project scope pricing and interest went up. What project was that? The two projects. One is Ford on Bay that Carter USA out of Atlanta was the developer. And the second one is Riverfront Plaza Development Pad and American Lions is the developer. American Lions, right. So through the term, my question would be, does this often, often, where we're not funding these projects because of incentives because of costs going up, or is this just like the two examples? I ask because if this is an ongoing issue, we know that costs are going to continue to go up, interest are going to go up. So is there a way to streamline this process to ensure that these projects get funded? And that we don't have to go back to the drawing board and fund them even more than they were initially Slated to be funded because I feel we're losing money because we're either dragging our fee or our process is too long whether it's through the eye or the city is there something we do better. So I'd say they're through the chair to Councilmember R.S. there's two parts of that those two were city owned property and the code prescribes and the state statute prescribes a process that we have to do for a disposition of city-owned property. So that's like a bid where somebody bid to provide paper for $X, right? And if all of a sudden they can't do it for $X and they say I need X plus, you have to rebid it. You can't just give them more money. So they're unique because we can't change the bid without going back through another bid process when they're sitting on property. There are other examples though where costs have a similar impact and let's like a related first approval which they declined to build. We have multiple projects where trio that you're going to later hear from on their 21 approval They declined to move forward because as costs were going up They could not perform under the original approval that happens frequently And then you'll see people come back for another agreement as we have the related agreement in front of us So that one I don't think you can stop from happening because the developer doesn't have at the time they get the approval from you. They're building permit, they're guaranteed contract price, and assigned loan agreement. I mean, they don't have that all locked in. That is coming down the pike after they get their agreement. and what happens is if there's a change in those interest rates, if there's a change in construction costs sometimes they'll say I can't make it work. I'm not going to move forward. Thank you for that. Into the chair just to close up my statement. Then are we enabling these developers knowing that hey they could always just decline to build and say come back later for more money because I feel that if we're already Committing to them and they just decide to not build because they think the interests are going up Interest are gonna continue to go up. We're going down. We don't have a crystal ball for that Price is of goods are gonna go up or go down So they're banking on if it's going up They're gonna ask for more money. Can we just say no if you got to decide to come back? We we're going to ask for money. Can we just say no? If you guys decided to come back, we're still going to honor our first deal and the second deal may not happen. Is there something we could do about this because we're losing money and I understand the costs are going up but if they were to build three years ago, it wouldn't be at the point right now. So are we enabling them? Is there a way to stop this process? Two answers to that through the Chair of Council Monarius. First is, if you look at the current related deal, we built in a reduction in the amount of incentive they could get based on the number of basis points that interest rates go down. So they're incentive goes down if interest rates go down. So we're taking care of it on that side so that they're not receiving an undue benefit. The other thing is if you look at the memo that I sent out for the meeting on property dispositions, I'm suggesting that we not entertain and offer from anyone who had a contract and failed to proceed in the last three years or last five years or something, so that we're trying not, you know, we're trying to make it where, hey, you can't just do that. You can't just come in repeatedly and then you decide if it works for you. So there has to be some penalties. On the other hand, I don't think you want to just totally kick somebody out and make them ineligible. So it's trying to find that perfect balance. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. And back to the committee, Mr. Carlucci, five minutes, bring us home, buddy. Yes, sir. It will not take five minutes. And real quick, just on something you said, about the failed project can't come back for three years. I want to get with you on that. That seems like we need to, I want more information on that. But Councilmember Paluso's point, and I think he wasn't quite here yet, but, might believe is the immediate focus needs to be residential period. Not Hogan Street, Streetscape. That'll take care of itself. We need residential in a concentrated area downtown. That is it. I mean that's what I want to be talking about after you know we get through all these other presentations in this committee because that's what we need to figure out and I think it has to be in a concentrated area. If we put $10 million, $30 million across the whole DIA boundary, that's kind of what we're doing right now. We're not going to see that massive impact. So, again, Councilor Paloso, I agree with you on that point and as I shared with this committee before you're here, I'm sort of putting together that, putting together some type of plans for that with the development community DAs, board of the mayor's office. And once it actually takes a little bit more of a shape out of a rough draft form, I'll be sharing that here. So just wanted to reiterate that. Thank you, Mr. Chair. All right. Thank you for that. Ms. Boyer, that's all for now. Thank you for being so prepared. Thank you for being so prepared. See a lot of pictures of active buildings going down. I'm glad this committee didn't shut it all down. Sorry, I had to do it. That's a great story. Putting all 15 of those projects early underway out there, that would be really helpful for the public to see. All right, so I'm going to take the privilege of chair to switch a few things up. We're going to do JTA next and then trio and just to give you a second to get together. I'm going to bring a special guest down from Build Up Downtown. Let's have Miss Lindsey Ott come and introduce herself to the downtown world. Talk a little bit about what Build Up Downtown is doing and then after that JTA you'll be on deck. Thank you, Mr. Chair, Mr. Vice President. That's exciting to say. Thank you also for the cheer that was unexpected. I just wanted to introduce myself. I am Lindsay Ott. As of a month ago, I am the new CEO of Build Up Downtown. Some of you may know us as Bud for short. I am filling the very large shoes of Alan DeVault, who I was sitting next to just now. So just to give you guys very, very, very quick rundown, the mission of Build Up Downtown is to advocate and advocate for and facilitate preservation smart development and great public spaces in downtown Jacksonville. So we are a privately funded nonprofit organization. We aim to connect to the public and the private. We were created to support the DIA and the DVI and their roles to fill the gaps to identify needs that still exist in downtown and to help serve and fill those needs. So I am personally and now professionally very excited for this conversation about the future of downtown. I think collectively we are all pulling in the same direction and there's a lot of good stuff ahead of us in the future. So I am excited to work with y'all to just kind of talk through what has worked successfully in other cities and what makes the most sense for Jacksonville and downtown in our future long term so I am Just so you'll know I am born and raised in Jacksonville and I care very very strongly and deeply about the success of our downtown so As far as but is concerned if it adds vibrancy and vitality to downtown Jacksonville We want to be there. So I'm offering myself as a resource to this committee and also to the downtown community. So thank you guys for this important conversation that you're leading and I'm excited to be here. For the record, where were your undergraduate studies at? The best Florida State University. Florida State University, go to Ols. They go to Ols. They go to FSU, they can always come down to the podium. Let me know. Any questions for Lindsay? I just want to thank you for coming down and excited for your new role and helping everyone in this downtown community reach our goals. Appreciate you being here. Thank you. All right, Jacksonville Transportation Authority. You are up, Mr. Ford. Welcome, sir. Okay. Thank you, Chairman Carrico and members of the City Council. Thank you for the opportunity to brief you on the JTA and specifically our Basitread Innovation Corridor Project. As you are well aware, the U2C is a multi-phase, autonomous vehicle network program that will expand transportation in a core of downtown and connect our surrounding urban communities. It addresses the future of the Skyway. As you know, the Skyway is well past its useful life, so we needed a solution to move people in downtown in a rapid and efficient fashion. And it also provides us the flexibility going into the future as I looked at some of the presentations on these developments. Our downtown is evolving and this transportation network being autonomous will give us that flexibility to address those changing needs as those projects come online. First phase of this program is the Bay Street Innovation Quarter. You're very familiar with that project. And we are on schedule to open in the summer of 2025 with Bay Street being the first phase. Over the next 10 years, the U2C will develop and replace the existing skyway and then expand into the adjoining neighborhoods of Springfield, San Marco, and Riverside. So, ultimately, the U2C is really the beginning of the future of transportation in our community because we will also, in conjunction with the downtown focus, look at deploying autonomous vehicles in other parts of our community. We have 14 ready-ride zones. These are micro transit zones that provide more like a door to door type service. We would swear a 40 foot bus really would be overkill and frankly in some cases not even physically be able to fit into some of these areas. So we also see the AVs as an opportunity to serve our ready ride zones, those 14 zones as we grow into the future. As you're well aware, we have a partnership with FSCJ. We actually are running a pilot program on their campus, but before that pilot program, we were partnered with FSCJ and signed a MOU with their president, where we are actually teaching curriculum right now. We've developed the first certification from technicians around AV technology or autonomous vehicle technology. I also want to publicly thank the City Council. Your approval of Project Link is really creating the synergy around the U2C project with a Tier 1 automotive grade entity now considering relocation to Jacksonville to manufacture vehicles, not just for the U2C project, but for the rest of the nation. I think you saw in their proposal, they're talking about up to 5,000 plus vehicles per year that will satisfy the US market related to Bi-America compliance for these types of vehicles. And it's just a few weeks away, we will make some very public announcements related to that partnership. That partnership just to put it in numbers, over $100 million in investment in a 450,000 square foot, advanced manufacturing facility. It goes without saying because of the support that they need, that investment of $100 million will be $100 million plus, because they then need their subcontractors and sub suppliers to be in close proximity. So it's foundational, but it is a magnificent benefit for our community in terms of the jobs and economic activity. And the next few months, we will continue to introduce this new technology to our community. We have a number of public demonstrations that have been scheduled, so that our citizens can get an opportunity to experience these autonomous vehicles. And in fact, some of you, I know Chairman Caracog, you, through boys and girls, your charge has actually had an opportunity very early on in the beginning of this program to actually participate and learn about these new technologies. So with that, uh, to get us started, we have a quick two-minute video. Then I'm going to introduce Kit Den. Kit Den is our Vice President of Automation and Innovation. He joined us in October of last year, actually coming here from Las Vegas. They were the other build grant awardee around autonomous vehicles. When we received our award a few years ago, it was Las Vegas and the city of Jacksonville. So there has been a partnership between the two cities for a number of years around autonomous vehicles. And then we were able to lure kit from Las Vegas to come here to Jacksonville to finish off our project. So with that Chairman Carrico, I'd like to run that video real quick, and then I'll have kit come up and do the deeper dive specifically on Bay Street where we are with that project. With that, let's roll the video. All right, and they told me I need to get your name and address for the record. So we know who you are. Not Ford CEO of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority. All right, thank you, sir. Is the video within the power? Yeah, it should be a video at the very beginning. At the beginning. Councilman Gaffner, can you sing us a song while we wait? I'm not sure if the PowerPoint is embedded with the video. I can see the struggle going on in the pit. No, it's not embedded in the. Yeah, Mr. Chairman, the video was a separate file, sir. I'm going to ask you to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to ask the committee to of the Special Committee for the record. My name is Kit Den. I am the VP of Automation and Innovation at the Jacksonville Transportation Authority. So just a few remarks. So we are on the cusp of a new era of profound changes in transportation, enabled by cutting edge technologies like autonomous vehicles. Advancements in sensors, artificial intelligence and vehicle automation are allowing us to rethink how we move people and design mobility services that are safe, more efficient, and more sustainable than ever before. At the JTA, we have embraced this paradigm, shift wholeheartedly. Our mission is to provide our community with seamless mobility options through an integrated network of transportation choices tailored to our community's needs. So, just a level set on the ultimate urban circulator program. As Mr. Ford mentioned, the U2C program is a highly ambitious plan 10 mile autonomous public transit service that provides seamless mobility solutions for our community. There are three phases to our program within aggressive vision to complete within a decade. Phase one, our Bay Street Innovation Corridor. This is a 3.2 mile urban autonomous transit circulator operating in mixed flow traffic, connecting the downtown revitalized urban core to the sports and entertainment complex. This state-of-the-art system of self-driving electric AV shuttles will provide safe, frequent, and eco-friendly mobility around the downtown Jacksonville core. I'm pleased to report that we recently had a construction groundbreaking ceremony for the Bay Street Innovation Corridor on May 29th and we are on track for a June 30th, 2025 service launch. I will be sharing some additional details on the scope of the Phase I BSIC project and a few of the subsequent slides. Phase two is the downtown service expansion or the modernization of our existing 2.5 mile elevated skyway into an above grade autonomous vehicle roadway that will also connect to the at grade Phase I Bay Street Innovation Corridor. Additionally, I will provide an update on some of the details on our efforts to commence our environmental and preliminary engineering efforts later this year. And finally, Phase III. Again, this is an expansion into our adjacent historic neighborhoods to the Southeast, our San Marco and South Bank, to the Southwest, Brooklyn and Riverside, and to the North Springfield. This Phase Three will bring additional at-grade AV service into this historic urban core to complete this 10 mile autonomous transit service network. Also happy to report on May 29th, the JTA just executed a US DOT raise grant agreement with the US Department of Transportation. And this will kick off our planning efforts for these route extensions. And this is also to commence later this year. So for the Bay Street Innovation Corridor, again, this is a US DOT build grant funded project that just entered construction and deployment and our revenue service operations were planned for June 2025. So if I may, on the slides here, there's a graphic that I'd like to show on slide number three. Yes, so on the next few slides is the graphic of this 3.2 mile AV service. The route is identified in three segments, light blue, blue and pink. There's a fourth segment here which is in orange which is the route for our AVs on its service route to return to our own infacility, better known as our Autonomous Innovation Center for charging as needed and to return to the route after charging. As part of this route, we will be deploying a fleet of 14 electric AVs that will operate primarily in mixed flow traffic at approximately seven to ten minute headways. With AVs arriving approximately every seven to ten minutes, the Bay Street Innovation Corridor offers a unique first and last mile solution, providing that seamless mobility between skyway stations, BRT stops, parking garages and lots, offices, shops, restaurants, sports and entertainment venues, plazas and parks and residences. Currently on this particular route, we have 12 designated branded AV stations on this route, four of which are existing fixed route bus locations. On this particular slide here on number four, on the east side of the corridor, previous slide please. We're happy to have AV stations at these new developments that Miss Boyer had reported out on the North Bank Riverfront Area and the sports and entertainment complex. Additionally, there is a designated approximately one-third mile AV path in this east loop of this corridor beginning at the AV station servicing the home of the of the Museum of Science and History and also the new four seasons hotel and resort development, just south of the football stadium. Other notable project scope that I wanted to mention as part of this BSIC project, from a network communications perspective, we're deploying a private LTE 5G cellular data network for secure communications and that is also powered by a fiber optic backbone. We've got a robust cybersecurity system as well as a data platform and analytics system that's collecting all of the information from the vehicles as well as from all of the connected infrastructure devices. From a travel time reliability perspective, we are deploying transit signal priority at 17 intersections, and that also includes four Q jumps for the AVs to optimize travel time along its route. Additionally, we have ITS connected vehicle roadside units at the 17 traffic intersections, and also the onboard units on the AV shuttles themselves. So this facilitates that vehicle to infrastructure and the infrastructure to vehicle communications. And lastly, from a security and safety perspective, we also have cameras along this corridor, 25 along the route, and this feeds into our command operation center that provides eyes on the AVs and also 12 additional cameras at the stations. Next slide, please. This is our autonomous innovation center, our O&M facility. So this is approximately 20,000 square foot, two-store building. This is a pre-cast concrete structure. Some of the key features here that are unique is that, as you can see, in the second rendering here, we have a rooftop solar array, and we have a microgrid with a battery storage system. So this system from a sustainability perspective actually generates enough to cover the needs of the building itself outside of the charging of the vehicles. Additionally, this is our home of our operations command center and this will oversee our fleet of 14 vehicles. Not only does it oversee the fleet of vehicles for the Bay Street and Innovation Corridor project, but in the future as we introduce new vehicles and new routes into our service, this will be the home in our operations command center. So additionally, we've got community use space areas on the north side of this facility and as well as a multi-use second-level terrorist space for hosting events, educational opportunities to host other visitors. Next slide, please. So our autonomous vehicle stations, I just wanted to give you a quick visual of this. These stations align with our JTA branding elements and colors. The amenities here include a digital display kiosk that provides traveler information. There's integrated lighting as well as security camera to enhance the comfort and security of passengers at these stops. And again, the station side lighting upgrades also provide for better safety and visibility. Next slide please. So as stipulated in our build grant agreement, there are some stringent federal requirements that we must follow and adhere to as part of this deployment. And these include by America, federal motor vehicle safety standards and Americans with Disabilities Act. Interesting thing is, and this isn't only unique to JTA but also to other transit agencies around the country. The current market realities are such that there are no purpose built, autonomous connected, electric-shared shuttles being manufactured today in the United States. So that's why we are very excited and very thankful for your support for Project Link. That will be the very first vehicle solution that meets all of these federal requirements that currently doesn't exist today. So what does that mean for our project deployment as we move towards June 2025? So we've had to work with our sub consultant beep to design a vehicle solution that can help us deploy this project and to meet all of these stringent federal requirements. So as part of this design vehicle solution, the base vehicle is a Ford E transit electric vehicle that already meets all of these federal requirements and we are working with a certified Ford outfitter or upfitter along with B to actually convert this vehicle or retrofit this vehicle into an autonomous vehicle that's capable of operating at an SAE level four autonomous vehicle. And what that means for SAE level four is that this vehicle will be able to operate autonomously in different various driving scenarios in most scenarios actually. And as part of this deployment and of this retrofitted AV service, or this AV technology is the different various hardware sensors. So we have a combination of LiDAR, high-definition camera, and radar, and all of these hardware sensors together along with the software develop that self-driving capability. Next slide, please. So just real quickly about the vehicles. So the delivery of the vehicles. So the delivery of the vehicles we are receiving the vehicles in two different tranches. So the first of our two vehicles are being finalized in its upfitting of this autonomous vehicle capability. Those will be delivered and ready in September of later this fall. The first of two vehicles which will go to the F.S. Suntrak's facility to begin some of that testing. After that testing it's completed. It will arrive here to Jacksonville at our Armsdale Test and Learn facility for further testing off track and also on road testing. So for our Phase 2 Downtown Service Exp, Skyway conversion, for the scope of this work, this will be a project development and an environmental study as well as a 30% preliminary engineering design. So we are working to finalize that solicitation. We are targeting this RFP release at the end of this month. And we are looking at board approval later this fall in October with an NTP contract NTP in November of 2024. As of right now, that work duration to complete that PD&E study and that preliminary engineering is approximately 12 to 16 months As part of this work we will be working with our Engineer consultant and also another consultant to evaluate the actual construction project delivery method for For this phase two project and that can include looking at a public private Partnership project delivery and or a more traditional design bill delivery. Next slide, please. As Mr. Ford mentioned, above and beyond the defined U2C program phases, we also seek opportunities to deploy pilot projects that can help socialize and demonstrate the benefits and safety of automated vehicle technologies. FSC downtown, FSCJ downtown campus, we launched a pilot project in late February and this was one of the very first pilot projects on a college campus in the state of Florida. And this is an approximately one mile AV circulator service that connects students, faculty, staff, and visitors to academic and administrative buildings on campus. Additionally, what's unique about this pilot project is that the ADS automated driving systems technology stack that was deployed on this vehicle form factor for this pilot project is the same ADS technology that will be deployed as part of the Bay Street project. So we've had an opportunity to gather some of those learnings on this pilot project. The this FSEJ downtown campus pilot project will be concluding this week on the 25th, but we also have a few other projects coming up very shortly. So as part of the JTA's moving forward, better mobility, stronger community initiative launch, which is a major service change happening on August the 26th. We will be deploying two additional AV pilot projects. The first is a Bethel Church Sunday Service AV demo project. So beginning on August 25th and continuing for three consecutive Sundays after that, we will be doing community outreach events with the church and also offering AV demo rides to the church congregation pre and post church service the other notable AV pilot is the Brooklyn lunch service AV pilot that we are planning to launch on August the 27th and this is a AV circulator pilot that is offered to employers and employees in the Brooklyn neighborhood. This will be a two month pilot operating daily from 11 to 2 p.m. and it's a plan two month project from late August to late October. Next slide please. Just a quick note on expanding mobility options through other use cases and other pilot projects. At the JTA we have 14 micro transit on demand, curb to curb zones which we call ReadyRide. So we see an opportunity of introducing autonomous vehicles within a subset of these ReadyRide zones. And as you can see on these two examples here, we have a university zone and a northside zone. So one of the things that we're looking at is being data driven, looking at how we can provide not a curb to curb service but a point to point service from some of these black nodes which are on these maps which are transit hubs and identifying where those first and last mile destinations are so that we can offer an on-demand AV type of service pilot. Next slide please. I'm going to move a little quick at these slides just so we have time for the last presentation. Yes sir. Just real quickly. Workforce development. I just wanted to just a quick nod that with technology disruption that also results in a focus on the human aspect of that. So here at the JTA we have a Develop a robust workforce development framework where we want to engage understand where those workforce where we want to engage, understand where those workforce skill needs are, and also working with all of employees, stakeholders, and also working with our union partners to work through this workforce development. Next slide, please. And then lastly, workforce of the future. We at the JTA, we have a really robust program with the Duval County Public School District, where we host quite a number of events all the way ranging from elementary, primary, junior high school to high school. And part of our outreach efforts is to expose students to this technology and to begin to start building that interest and develop that future talent pipeline. And lastly, we also have a very robust internship program where we have high school college students and again focusing on developing those skills, knowledge and capabilities and developing that talent pipeline. Thank you. Excellent. Excellent, excellent. I'm going to ask a few questions and turn it over to some of my committee members. How many vehicles are we expecting to have in for the Bay Street corridor? Yes, sir. This will be a fleet of 14 vehicles, sir. 14? What are the stops in between average time? The average stops in between is approximately four minutes. Four minutes? Okay. I'm only deep concerned, which I'm sure is yours too, is what happens on game day, right? When you're driving to move 50,000, 60,000 people out, 10 people in a thing every four. I'm sure you have a plan for that, maybe we could talk in the future. But it's... Chairman, you have a plan for that, maybe we could we could talk in the future about it. Chairman, I, Caracou. So the plan is we have the game day express we use right now. This is going to be complimentary. I think the size of the vehicles, the lack of not having dedicated lanes does not allow us to have the significant capacity to impact it at a large scale in terms of outbound on a game. So I think for the most part, we're still going to be relying on game day express, the 40 foot larger buses for the most customers for those type of events. All right. Thank you. Thank you. I'll go to the Q here. We have Council Member Balousseau. Thank you. I have two quick questions. First of which is what is the projected ridership for year one? Do we know? Yes sir thank you Mr. Chairman or excuse me Mr. Councilman the projected ridership daily in year one is 1,500 daily riders. It's pretty robust. Second question is you were issued a state grant for this project as well as that correct, is that paid out? And if not, what are they waiting for? You want to go ahead. Yes, thank you, sir. Yes, as part of the two grants that we have with FDOT, there's a $6 million tech grant and there's also a $7 million infrastructure grant. So we are currently working through the process to begin those reimbursements on expenses and project costs incurred. But they've not been paid out yet. No, sir. No reimbursements yet, sir. We're in process. Make sure. All right, Councilmember Gaffey. All right. Thank you, through the chair. This would be quick. How will this affect the skyway and what's the future plans on the skyway? OK, I'll check that. So the plans right now with that preliminary design work, that's phase two. We are getting ready to award the contract that we'll examine phase two, which is at this point, a conversion of the aerial structure. So you have the subst-structure, you have that roadway or the monorail structure that's on the top of those pilings. Our plan is to remove that monorail beam and then use these vehicles to operate on what would be a roadway or an elevation, for example. The original skyway was a simple roadway with rubber tire vehicles. At subsequent phases of the project they added in the Monterel Beam and that's where the challenge comes in because it's a one of a kind Monterel system. There is one in Michigan, there's a system in Miami, there are people movers, but we elected to go with this Monterel Beam some decades ago which has limited our expansion of the existing skyway. So our plan is to leverage that federal investment, leverage the local taxpayer investment in the concrete structure, which has about another 30 to 40 years of life. All right, no one else in the queue. I just wanna thank you guys for coming down. Obviously transportation is key when we're looking at the future of downtown. There's a lot of things you have in the pipeline and it's good for us to kind of get those updates and hear what's happening because it all works together. Moving people through downtown is going to be key as we continue to build more residential and more features and more things to come to. So thank you for your work. Thank you for sharing. I know you guys are always available. It's individual council members who want to meet and get updates so appreciate you coming and sharing publicly. Jessica, thanks for sending it up. And we will move on to the next agenda item. Okay, thank you. All right, so next up I have conversation on the Laura Street trio, and I think to kick it off, I'm gonna ask a representative from Mr. Atkins team to come down and just kind of give us a background on how you perceive this getting done, what it takes to do a deal like this How do we get it funded? What about the last deal? Did you like not like just just get in the weeds for a little bit? Thank you, Mr. Chairman and thank you committee for entertaining this very important discussion Before I bring Mr. Adkins up I I just want you to address if you would, my sir. Jordan Ellsbury, 121 West Forsyth Street, downtown Jacksonville. Before I bring Mr. Adkins and the development team up to walk through the mechanics of how project gets built like this or financed, I wanted to briefly introduce my client and the development team. So if you'll oblige me for a couple of minutes just to talk some historicals. First I want to thank Council Member Salem for establishing the committee, Council Member Carico, for chairing such an important discussion. As we know, this committee is not in place to discuss any one project, but to look at why we look out our windows and see what we see, which is also what the taxpayers see. As someone that has worked with each of you individually, when I was in government or the private sector, I know how seriously you spend each and every dollar of taxpayer money. Our downtown has a special benefit. Almost all of our equally important neighborhoods do not. A special taxation district that we call a CRA. The DIA not only gets a special carve out of tax dollars to spend, but annually gets tens of millions of dollars through our capital improvement budget, of which was just presented, or other grants that are taken out of operating reserves. This is not to say that our downtown is not worthy of the city's investments, I just described, but to simply say the downtown is not worthy of the city's investments I just described, but to simply say the taxpayers are not seeing that return. After over a decade of this level of investment in our downtown, the taxpayers are not seeing it return as I mentioned. The creation of a CRA requires a number of different observations and legislative findings. With that, our slum, blight, lacquer growth, and a bottomless pit of developers to place their capital. And before I bring Steve up, I want to read a quote that came from a well-known and accomplished journalist who's covered our city and everything that I mentioned above. Quote, downtown looks and feels utterly dead while the DIA dithers around low stakes fights over storage units and park plans that never seem finalized. Meanwhile, the rest of Jacksonville thrives. There's more exciting development happening on a half mile stretch on Mayport Road than all of downtown. No offense to my good friend, Roy Diamond, who's not here as Mayports in his district, but in fact, Mayport or any of your districts, we can only imagine what they may look like with the benefits that the DIA has. Enough for me, I want to introduce you to an accomplished developer, a believer in downtown, a human being, and someone I've grown to respect and I now consider a dear friend Steve Aggins of Southeast Development. Before he presents to this committee, allow me a minute to tell you about my friend Steve. I met Steve probably seven years ago when we had not just three but several blighted structures plaguing our skyline. As we pursued each of these buildings individually, the Berkman 2, the landing, Gold City Hall and Courthouse, none proved more complicated than the Lower Street Trio and the Barnett Bank building. Historic, old, blighted, and rapidly eroding once beautiful buildings that weren't worthy of our traditional stick of dynamite, curry smash reputation for which we earned when I served in the administration. These four buildings not only sit in our core business district, but on Loura Street, which is the very heart for which pumps the blood in every project that this council will consider and was in the presentation for which you just heard. Steve Atkins convinced me to believe in these projects, that they could not just be an eye sore, but the most valuable contributor in making our downtown like other downtowns that we take trips to year after year, city after city. And together, we took a plunge on a project failed by so many, including the government. In 2019, without a dollar from the taxpayers, Steve and his team delivered the Barnett Bank Building back into service. Quickly becoming the highest grossing commercial and residential leasing building per square foot in the urban core, but also dedicating around 20% of its units to the city's affordable housing crisis. In 2010, when I was graduating high school, long before my time in Jacksonville, the city was launching a massive lower street infrastructure project. As they were demolishing the block of road between Forsyth and Adams, the contractor discovered that the basements of the Florida National Bank and Florida Life Insurance Building were then exposed. The plan from the contractor, the city at the time, was to simply fill in those basements of those historic buildings. My client pleaded with the city to save them, and with no budget to do so, my friend Steve volunteered his personal capital, engineered and installed suspended structural slabs above the basements that would allow the road to be finished on time in just two weeks. Around the same time, a bus struck the historic clock tower outside of the Jacob's jewelry office on Lauren Adams with no city money available to rebuild the clock my client again out of his own pocket fund of the reconstruction of this iconic landmark. That's the Steve I know and frankly why I'm here today. I've seen my friend deceived, lied to, threatened, called a crook and most infuriatingly, called broke and doesn't have the resources or the gall to pull off these projects. And the worst part, nearly all of this is perpetuated by a bureaucratic agency of this government that loves to show photos of the Barnett building attributing it to their success when in fact Steve did it alone. I'll tell you something else, only one person has actual experience and a resume doing this scale of an adaptive reuse in our downtown. The team behind me is the best in the business. I hope this committee will learn what I have about Steve and trust him to do what he does best and get this deal done. I'll turn it over to Steve. All right, Mr. Aggins, come on down. Good morning. I want to begin by thanking the committee for allowing us to be here today and speak about the Lord Street Trio project. Quick introductions. I do have a team represented here that is available to answer questions as am I today. And that is made up of my partnership that I have here with Southeast Development Group. My partner, Graham White, is here. Turner Construction is represented by their regional vice president, Mr. Jeff Justin. Our council, Jason Gabriel, and then we have a partner in our project who you probably are familiar with, Paul Pratozzi, who is the president and CEO of Live Oak Construction. There will be a collaboration between Turner and Live Oak on our project. Also want to say that I am particularly excited to hear about all of the projects that are going on in downtown. Ms. Boyer very artfully illustrated what is going on in different projects. We're excited about that. I'm an advocate for downtown and I want everyone to find success in downtown Jacksonville. Unfortunately, the project that I'm here to talk about was not included in that presentation. So I am here today to answer questions. I'm here to answer any question that you might have and discuss the project in itself and the challenges around it, our experience in doing this type of project here in Jacksonville with the Barnett Building, or whatever you'd like to talk about. So I'm here today to offer my time and my thoughts in terms of what this project represents for our downtown, how important it is, what the challenges are, and how we'll go about accomplishing it. So with that, Mr. Chairman, I'm here to answer your questions. Start off by just giving your name and address for the record. I always that, Mr. Chairman, I'm here to answer your questions. Start off by just giving your name and address for the record. Always got to get that. Yes, sir. I'm Steve Atkins. I'm the president and managing principal of Southeast Development Group. I am at I'm born and raised here in Jacksonville. I'm a Jacksonville native and Jacksonville based developer. My office resides at the Barnett Building at 112 West Adam Street. developer. My office resides at the Barnett Building at 112 West Adams Street. All right, I'll start off. Can you just tell me a little bit about the last deal that was in front of the DIA kind of what you thought needed to be in that deal to get it done and some of the feedback you received from the DIA in the process of negotiating and ultimately them deciding not to pursue negotiations anymore? Well, so if you recall, we were presented an opportunity back in January of this year to discuss the project with the City Council. And at that time, there was a proposal in place that we had financing available for the project that also included the potential of a backstop from the city of Jacksonville. While we had vetted that very specifically and thoroughly with not just the lender, which was Capital One municipal lending, also with the state of Florida and the state attorney's office, it was deemed by the legal department here in the city that it was illegal. So we presented that and we were told at that time that the city would have Jackson that would prefer a different structure and to go back to the DIA workshop that with the DIA and to find a different structure to move forward, something that was more traditional as it was described. We did that and we've spent the last six months going back and forth with the DIA to attempt to come to a deal. Many deals were presented, many different structures, all that included either loans, grants, different types of investments from the city, and some of those were offered in terms of revenue shares and or just straight very traditional deals. Unfortunately, as of May, the DA basically described to us that the challenges with this project, the expense of this project and what we thought was required in order to make that work was not feasible and was something that required more resource than the DA itself could allow or could offer to us. And so they chose to create a resolution, draft a resolution and vote on it to end the discussions with our group. I will tell you that we did not stop and we continued to work on our structure, our financing options for the project. We have added an additional $15 million in cash equity to the project since that time and have Secured financing that is at a considerably lower interest rate So now we have prepared in in a presentation that was distributed to you today A new offer to the city that is significantly less in terms of its overall ask, and it effectively gets the project completed if in fact the city is willing to work with us under a public-private partnership. So that brings us to where we are here today. Can you walk me through some of the details we have the presentation here, but if you could just maybe give us a high level on what's different, what are the dollar amounts? So one of the, and I'll bring up my partner, Graham White, who can speak as he leads the financing effort to speak to specifics, but I can tell you from an overall standpoint, one of the major considerations that's been made is a higher loan to value and a higher percentage of see-paste financing. For those who are not familiar with see-pACE, that is a program that specifically lands on the green portions or the energy efficient portions of the project. That total amount of C-PACE lending has increased to approximately $70 million. That coupled with the new additional equity has allowed the overall ask of the city to be reduced by approximately $15 million. So we have also proposed the use of a short term loan from the city of $10 million to pay the city back a portion of this overall ask in a short amount of time and earn an interest. So there is something payable back to the city. I am a taxpayer of the city as well and so I'm sensitive and conscious of the needs for those things to happen. What you'll find in this presentation this perspective is that there is a outline and detail of this structure and the pros and cons associated with it. All right, only put a pause in the $10 million loan and go over to legal and ask, you guys, is that something that's traditional? I don't know if the DIA attorneys here have, as the city been able to give loans before in development deals. To the chair off the top of my head, I personally can't think of any because I don't live in this world, Miss Boyer, may be able to address that question from the DIA's perspective. I would hazard to guess that in the past maybe we have. It's just you don't traditionally see loans from the city as part of a capital stack that includes city dollars. You're used to seeing rev grants and things like that. I don't know if Mr. Peterson is aware of any. I was going to go to him next, but he's not looking at me so I'm guessing. Through the chair to the committee, I echo Mr. Foppelstice comments. I was trying to think of surely at some point the past, the city has issued a loan for development, but nothing comes to mind. And in the past five, six, eight years, you've only seen the rev grant, completion grant type incentives related to it, but do we not just give a loan to the best core group in the self storage deal? Sam Marco, no, my mistake on that. Couple council members up here say we did, man. $6 million. All right, that's something that maybe OGC can get back to this committee. I just want to make sure there's no banking regulations or something that says, hey, a city can't loan money to a developer. Simple. All right. Do you have some people on the queue? Did you have anything else to add before we start taking questions, Mr. Hackens? Here to answer questions. I'll go to council member, past president Salem. Thank you, chair. Through the chair. Thanks for coming, Steve. Absolutely. Thank you, sir. When I was president, I did everything I could do to try to get this thing done. Yes, sir. I was unsuccessful. One of my few regrets in my year. But one of the things that I, and I'm not in your industry as you know, I'm a healthcare guy. But one of the things I heard consistently, phone calls from other developers that if Atkins would bring in other investors, he would reduce the amount that the city would have to put in and we could get this done, but he refuses to bring in other investors, wants to control this project himself. Can you just address that? Sure. Well, as I mentioned in the introduction, we do have other investors in the project. The first and foremost is an LP equity group, which is providing additional $15 million in cash equity to the project. That has just been added in the last month. We tried to initiate those conversations with the DA, but it wasn't received and so we moved on past the DA. Can I stop you right there? So that brings the commitment to the city down to 72, 73, versus the 85 or so it was the last time we saw it. Is that correct? That's correct. Yes, sir. That's correct. Please continue. It also includes the $10 million loan that we just discussed. You know, one of the other things that's a misnomer and sometimes, and I understand that it's not necessarily understood by all the laypeople and how it works. I'm happy to discuss it at length and in detail if you'd like, is historic tax credits. The DIA has indicated to us several times that they do not recognize federal historic tax credit equity as equity in the project. So just from a very high level, let me just describe to you how that works. When we rehab the buildings, there is a certain cost associated with the overall budget. In our case, it's about $62 million worth of the overall budget that qualifies for his federal historic tax credits. Those credits are issued to us in the form of a coupon. That coupon is a commodity that can be sold. In our case, we have pre-sold those coupons that commitment from the investor for an additional ten and a half million dollars. So when you have go through that process and you have that cash available to the project that is also invested in the project as additional equity. So collectively between what I've already invested in the project, which is out of my own pocket, the additional $15 million that we just described plus the sale of the historic cash credits, there's just shy of $35 million in equity into the project. That is as much as you can afford to put into a project like this that will receive a commercial return. Keep in mind, and then one of the things that we went into detail in the presentation, that I won't go through the whole thing now, but we're certainly happy to meet with everybody individually to talk about it, is that this type of project is unique. You cannot compare an adaptive reuse project, specifically this project, to the new construction projects that we just heard about for downtown. There is a significant expense to put these buildings back together before you're ever able to do any type of new construction development. In our case, that cost can be up to $50 million to spend on these buildings. And we've talked about this with DAI in detail, to put them back into service. The construction cost alone is about $30 million. And then once you add the cost associated, the soft cost, and everything else, it cost you almost 40% of the overall cost of this project, that you get zero return, zero. It's the price of doing business. That's why projects like this are unique, and they require a public private partnership to extend beyond just the surface cost. It's very challenging. These buildings, which were built right after the Great Fire, have been owned by various entities, including the City of Jacksonville, where they have been basically left open and exposed to the elements. For over 30 years, they've been vacant. They are in a significantly deteriorated condition. There are photos that we can show you, where the structural elements of some of these buildings, particularly the two towers, are extremely deteriorated and stressed, where they're literally coming apart. Those things can be fixed. I can talk to you about how they would be fixed, but it is extremely expensive. So do get these buildings rehabbed if you want to call it that, and get them put to a position and a condition that new construction can be addressed, it's an expensive proposition. And nobody, not Steve Atkins, not anybody else, can get a return out of that just from spending the money to do so. That's where this stands apart from your typical development. And that's why the city must be part of our transaction in a unique way. Yeah, continue. Yes, sir. So on the screen, you can see, can I ask another question? Yes, sir. I'm continue. Yes sir. So on the screen, you can see. Can I ask another question? Yes sir. I'm sorry. If the buildings have deteriorated to that extent, and I know they're very important, I hear from everyone. Is it worth trying to put these kind of dollars into these buildings versus, and I may be shot here, but you know, tearing them down and building something else? So, I have to be careful until I answer that question just so that I don't get shot either. The reason I bought these properties, these buildings, is because I feel like, from a developer standpoint, and somebody who's from Jacksonville, that they are critically important to our downtown. The historic context of these buildings, what they've meant to downtown for 100 plus years, what they offer in terms of the fabric of downtown, if they're restored and reactivated, there is an intrinsic value to that that you cannot quantify. It is by all measures one of, if not the most important project in our downtown core. But Steve, you have said they have been sitting there for 30 years open to the elements. They have. I mean to me, I mean that's disturbing. And the dollars that are going to be required to put these buildings into development. And it's a decision that ultimately the city has to make. I just, I mean, I think that's a fair debate that we should have. Mr. Chair, are these dollars, are there alternatives to this? At this expense, and I'll leave it at that. Thank you. Is the bank building, the non-tower building of the three in any better shape in April? You have the other two? It's a slightly better condition than the towers and that has to do with the fact that it was built. First one is only two stories and it is a steel structure as opposed to a concrete structure. The two high rises are both concrete structures. And so there is a different level of deterioration. Yes, it's got a lot of challenges and has to be put back together. Keep in mind too, and we've talked about this in our perspective. These buildings because of the period and when they're built. They meet no modern building code, none. So everything that we have to do has to be addressed in terms of just not just the preservation, but in order for them to be reactivated and used in any way, you have to address contemporary code. So is that a challenge for the marble bank building? It is in part, but not as great as it is for the two towers. Is there any risk to public safety with just these two towers that have been elected for 30 years to sit there? There is. And how you quantify that I think is, you know, it's a little bit more difficult. What I can tell you are the physical conditions of the two towers, particularly the BISB building, is significant. The BISB building has been subject to a lot of water damage, water intrusion, partly because of the way that it's positioned on the site. It's actually on a hill. So all the water that is accumulated in these massive rainstorms on that site Floods the basement of that building and the structural columns of that building absorb that water and Ultimately the steel in those concrete structures Spall and break apart. So that's what you see on the screen. Those are the structural elements to that building It's also deteriorated from the top by the masonry defacing from the top parapet of the building. So those things can be fixed. There are contemporary construction methods that would allow us to fix that. We are certainly prepared to do that, and we know very specifically what those challenges are and what it costs to get that done. But that is a condition that we have to address with these buildings. So the ultimate question is, are these buildings important enough? And we think that we can reactivate them and what this project will mean to downtown. Or do we take a different direction? That's ultimately where we are. Thank you for sharing that. I'm going to go to some of the committee members and we're going to have to do a three-minute clock just because we're running short on time. So Council Member Joe Carlyucci. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I kind of like what Council Member Sam was saying. I think we, that's the conversation point. Is it worth restoring the buildings? But I'm kind of open to seeing, what does a hybrid project look like for you guys? What would happen if you tore down the two towers and you kept the marble bank building? What would that look like as a cost? Because you're saying the costs are so high to restore those. And those are the two buildings that are basically draining this money out of this project. I mean, I think that's something I would want to know. And if that makes it more palatable to everyone else, then I think that's something worthy of putting forward. And we can have that discussion later. And there might be a, you might say, oh, well, that's just can't do that. But let's have that conversation. And then if you can with this, just given to us, can you just give me a brief, how would that run, how would this run down for the city? Like $30 million a year, one, two, three, like what is the cost per year for the city? So I can, yes or so. In a previous proposal proposal we had proposed three different tranches of funds being paid into the project an initial tranche at The approval of the RDA at financial close when we had the overall financing close In order to them so those funds can be available with equity and debt to offset the cost of that initial construction that we talked about. And then we had a, hey, a, a, a tranche at the year point and then a tranche at CO. With the new structure that we've been able to put together and propose, that's, that middle tranche has been eliminated. So there is an ask upfront and I don't have it in front of me, but I think it's somewhere around $30 million. And then there is an ask at the end at CO that is roughly the same at around $30 million. Okay, and what is the, give me the year in a hypothetical world of how long to take? So this project's focus on- Well, no, no, sorry, not how long it's projecting to take. Like when would the $30 million on the front end be given? Are we talking about next? It's at financial close, which we're prepared to close after the city council makes it, if the city council was to draft a new RDA and we were approved before the end of this year, we can close by the end of this year and mobilize within 30 days thereafter. So whether that's, whether you look at that as between Thanksgiving and Christmas, or if you look at the first of the year, that's where we would be. Okay, and then 20 seconds left. On the back end, would that be two years after? That'd be about 20, between 26, 27 months thereafter. Okay, understood. All right, thank you, Mr. Chair. All right, so committee member, Gaffney, we're on, but you went off. Do you have a question? Your mic's not on. Yeah, through the chair. I just want to echo my colleague's sentiments in terms of the new construction cost versus the rehab and cost. I mean, I think that I made my decision a lot easier if we could try to figure out what would be the difference in cost, in terms of the ads from the city. Right now, we talking about $70 million. So if it's a new bill, maybe that might reduce to 50. I don't know, but I mean, that would help me out tremendously. So I did think, past Council President Selling about a valuable point. I didn't know the bill doing this horrible condition. So, but yeah, if you can provide some numbers. Well, we could certainly make a guess, or I shouldn't say a guess, an estimate. Without having plans for some kind of new construction, you're really talking about starting from scratch. So that's a little bit more of an effort than just making an offer. You can do something very conceptual for the discussion. I think really what it comes down to is what the city ultimately really wants to do. Do we want to try to restore the buildings because of the buildings that they are and what it means to downtown or do we want to just see new construction? And that's a valid point. And it might be worth it spending more money, you know, in terms of a new bill, you know if it got burning more resonance to chance of it downtown, so but that's definitely. So let me also offer just so that everybody understands the context of this project. It includes new construction. So if you're familiar with that site, you have the three historic buildings that are grouped together sort of in a perpendicular fashion right there on the corner. There is also basically an acre lot that goes with it that had other historic buildings on it that the city owned those were torn down years ago. So you have a vacant lot. The program for this project is not just to restore the three buildings. It's also inclusive of building two new 11 story additions. One that attached to each one of these towers. One of them houses the hospitality program, which is an on-graph collection hotel. The other houses multi-family, which is 169 new units, which we have reserved 27% of those as workforce housing. So there is a new construction component. It's a significant new construction component to the project. It's inclusive though, as we have it's currently designed, with the historic preservation, the full preservation of those three buildings. Okay, all right, thank you. Thank you. All right, committee member, Councilman Miller, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for coming to the Mr. Actants. My concern is that as I've carefully watched, let's go through the different incentive packages that were offered, that were requested and comparing it against the other projects that have been done through DIA, the big differences that I see and I think my biggest concern is related to upfront commitment from the city of funding, which I personally believe we shouldn't be doing. There were other concerns previously with a lack of equity coming in on your part and not being able to bring that equity to the same level as the other developments that have occurred downtown. And I still have that concern with this new proposal that you've given us today. What are the upfront costs? Again, that haven't been asked for in other projects downtown. In some cases, similar projects, what are the up front costs are you asking for in total from the city? So in the proposal, you'll see that there is an up front ask of a grant that's approximately $30 million. That's coupled with, that would be coupled with the equity and debt that we are bringing to the table. Again, this project, you cannot compare and contrast specifically to the other all new build projects that are in Jacksonville. You just can't, they're not the same. So that upfront cost that we described, which could be as can't they're not the same so that up front cost that we described which could be as much as 40% of the overall cost has to be offset with an investment somehow some way because there are no return as you receive from it. So I'm sorry I'm not I missed it so what are the total up front costs you're asking from the city that you're asking from the city. Did you're asking the city to commit? So in a previous DA proposal, they proposed there be a forgivable economic development loan upfront that's around $8.5 million. I think it's $8.3 million that eliminates any existing debt and it pays funds that were already appropriated for this project. In addition to that, we're asking for the initial development grant to offset that upfront cost associated with the project. It's approximately $30 million and a $10 million loan that's made that's payable over the course of the construction that we would pay back within a short period of time plus interest. So I didn't do the math there but what's the total amount of upfront cost you're asking from the city? Through the chair of field budget let me take a stab at it. Thank you council member Milner for the question. I think just doing napkin math roughly 40, but I want to quantify the upfront definition as Yes, the city is committing it as you do on any development agreement where you guys commit funds Wherever in the project, but it's important to note that money is dispersed peripasoo with our money So when we spend money we come to the city and make draw requests out of that initial upfront ask. So while there's a commitment, you're going in dollar for dollar with us as a development partner and we I think square that up on a monthly or so basis. Thank you and I'm way over time. I just want to throw out there I believe and Miss Ber could correct me on this, but I think 218 Church Street is a comparable situation to look at. I knew you said there weren't any, but I would say that was a similar situation with no upfront cost. But anyhow, I appreciate the extra time Mr. Chair. All right, what are the rules on overtime, Mary? We still have a couple of people in the queue. I know this room is booked for what, one o'clock? Do we have to the chair for the right? Hey, minigrace period. Yes, but you also had a hard stop in the notice for this meeting of 12 o'clock. Okay, real quick, Councilman Paluso, can you do it in a minute, Carlucci, for a minute, get some thoughts out. Thank you, Chair. I think it's appalling that I would hear from my fellow colleagues that we would even consider the idea of allowing these structures to be demolished. It's out of control. These are historical markers, local and national historical markers. You've got to be out of your mind if you think that that doing new construction on that land would be anywhere near to the degree of importance to what we have there today. There's only so many clothe buildings left. I mean, that is insane. Steve, do you still have a construction guarantee for this project? Yes, sir. So, the Turner construction is our general contractor and they'll be offering a corporate. It's only up 30 seconds. Is this the first time that you presented this to anyone, our committee or the CFO's office? The mayor's office, anything? Is this the first time? It's the first time you've submitted this new binding after the next time. This is the first time anyone's seeing this proposal. Don't you find that a little bit odd that we would do it like right here in front of a body like this as opposed to giving it to the CFO's office? No, I don't. The fact that after I've spent six months we're trying on that audit all. And then, Lori at one point, I'd like to understand why equity is not used. I'm sorry, why tax credits are not used as a means for equity. That'd be kind of important for this by to understand. Thank you, Chair. Councilmember MacRalegi. It would be appalling for this city not to preserve these three buildings. Every great downtown I have visited over the years, particularly after I left the council the last time, I went and visited cities that were great and they were great because they saved and re-adapted the historical sections of their community, of their downtown. Charlotte officials told me that the thing they wished they had done differently was restore their older buildings and not tear them down, they tore down too many. Charlotte downtown development and tourist development officials told me that. Okay, these are also local historic landmarks. Landmines. Landmines, it might be landmarks. They're local? Take 30 more seconds. They're local historic landmarks. And they're a national historic landmark. It's going to be, to even take those three buildings and try to get around those two designations would be hugely difficult and it would be a huge mistake by the Soviet Jackson and it would bear us this body forever. All right, I have about 60 seconds left. I'm sorry everybody that's out there would have public comment. It would have liked to hear from DIA Board or Lori Boyer on thoughts of this. So we're gonna have to continue this. So we're able to meet again, but I will say those that are upset about the idea was just a question asked. The original question was what is the deal? We still have a deal in place that we're talking about. And before I close out, I'd like to ask OGC what is the process now that DIA has said that they don't want to negotiate with this anymore we have new items is this is this committee able to negotiate that should I as the chair take it offline and start negotiating and get a package together to then come back to this body for legislation what is our legal guard rails to move forward for this to the chair so you still have a pending bill from kind of the prior iteration of the deal that was struck. 2023-876 is still pending before the Council's committee of the whole. So I guess there's a couple of different routes and I think it would depend on the significance of the changes that we're talking about with this new proposal. Whether or not we could go back and amend what's been pending or if there would be a need to withdraw that or let that fail and then bring back something different as a new piece of legislation. Recognizing that the DIA has indicated at least from the deal that's been pending that they're not interested in getting involved, not sure if they've made the similar statement with respect to what's being proposed since this is just being proposed today. I would have to go back and kind of identify, who is the one that would be responsible for this? Is the intent that it would be this committee? That might be the case. Was the administration planning on getting involved in some capacity? So if you can give us a little time to do that I can come back with some of those answers for your next meeting or get with you individually certainly and if we have to break off in another subcommittee just for this Project we can do so if not we'll continue to work Laterate apologies to the people who submitted cards for public comment, but we are over time apologies for those that couldn't rebut on this for public comment but we are over time apologies for those that couldn't rebut on this. Oh sure well that be a good idea read me into the record for public comment we had James Schwartz Lauren Cassandra Woods Wayne Wood Eunice Barnum and John Newdy all right policies again for running over but we've got to go meeting as a adjourn. Thank you, sir.