the Are there any members of the board who like to make modifications or corrections to the minutes as submitted? No, I guess there are any member of the public that would like to make modification or corrections to the minutes as submitted. It's saying none may I have a motion please? So moved. Is there a second? Second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed say nay. Aye. Is habit. Next on the. Docket is the consent calendar. Is the con he would you like to read the consent calendar in? Sure. Excuse me. Sorry. Yes sir. We have one item in the consent calendar tonight at number 3. and the board is going to move the item. The board is going to move the item. The board is going to move the item. The board is going to move the item. The board is going to move the item. The board is going to move the item. The board is going to remember the public. I'd like to remove this item from the consent calendar. Seeing none may have a motion to approve the consent calendar. I move to approve the consent calendar. There's second. Second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed, say nay. If your item was on the consent calendar, congratulations that it has been approved. Next, we will move on to items previously deferred, Mr. Kunky. Because there we have two items in the consent calendar. I'm sorry, on their previously deferred calendar. Sorry, he just picked my brain. The first one is the staff is requesting a deferral for this item. It needs to go through some other departments to get cleared up. So that will read into the record and ask for the board to vote for deferral. This is number four, B-A-R-2024-0095. Request for alterations at 923 King Street. Applicant Zia Hassan Zadeh. Would you like us to vote on the deferral first? It's a cookie. Yes, please. We have a motion to accept the deferral requested from the staff. So moved. Is there a second? Second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. You oppose, say nay. I's having. Okay. The next item. Thank you, sir. One more item under previously deferred. That is item number five and six. AR 2024-00119 Parker Gray. Request for alterations at 426 Earl Street. Applicant is Lisa James. NBAR 2024-00151 Parker Gray. Request for partial demolition and encapsulation at 426 Earl Street. Is the applicant or their representative here to speak on behalf of the project? Yes. Please state your name and address for the record, please. Lisa James, 426 Earl Street, and I'm the owner. Would you like to make a presentation or just answer questions? If I can answer them. Okay. Okay, have you read the staff recommendations? Yes. You agree to staff recommendations. Yes. Is there any staff that any member of the sorry any member of the board that has questions for this applicant? I guess I was wondering this application you you remove the front porch, is that correct? Yes. Okay, thank you. Yeah, just for clarity. This is the application you saw not too long ago. They are moving forward with just the two windows on the side and the one window in the rear at this time. And they plan to come back later on once they've had a chance to revise the drawings for the porch and the front and the rear entry and stuff. So right now, they wanted to move forward with these windows and things so that they can do some work throughout August. Any other members have questions with the applicant? Any member of the public has questions with the applicant? Seeing none, we would close public hearing, go to board deliberation. Who would like to begin or may have a motion? Go ahead, now. That was kind of fast. I do have some questions or comments I can start now. You can begin the deliberation as well. It's coming. Well, the drawings, my understanding is that last time the board asked to kind of clear up the drawings because there's a lot of contradiction. It's still the same. There's a lot of things that it's just hard to understand because it's not the information is not correct. There's no North Arrow. And actually to begin with, the address of the projects is written in Arlington, Virginia. We are in Alexandria. So please correct that. So it's very helpful if you put the usually we have the north arrow so we can locate between the writing and what's being removed and not. And then the if you go to page A3, this is sheet A3, page seven. Again, it says proposed north elevation. Right below it, it says south elevations. And it's actually believe, I believe it's neither North or South elevations. I don't have that. About it. It's what was submitted to BAR. And to the right of it, it says East elevation, which I think should be North elevation. Both of them. Okay. So please correct those as well. Going back to the previous page number six. We have the existing first floor plan and then the proposed first floor plan. The existing one you are showing window on a plan like page north and then to the right of it for the proposed one, it says that the window has changed, the size of the window has changed, but it's showing the same exact size on this drawing. Okay. So, yeah. And then on the right side of this drawing, why did you remove the window, which was removed and filled out without permission? Well, when we initially applied for the permit, it said approved. So when we did the drawings for the inside, we wanted the outside to match the interior of the house. So that's why we needed to resize and to close and to move. I understand that permit was interior only, correct? Right. We've found that out afterwards. But my question is why is that window removed altogether? Because it seems the interior hasn't changed. Well, you talked about the window on the side hasn't changed. Well, we have the... You talk about the window on the side... Right. You can have these two drawings. The interior is exactly the same. So my question is why was the window removed? The window was removed because the stairs originally was on... The left, you go into the house, the stairs originally was on the left. The stairs are now on the right side of the house. So those stairs will run through that window. But the window is on the right side? That's what I'm saying. The stairs are now on the right on the interior of the house. I'm talking about the window that is in the kitchen area. The one that's close. Drawings are wrong. That's what it boils down to. The existing drawings are actually the new drawings. Right. And the stair, as you can see on both of them, the existing drawing is basically the new drawing. My point is to fix the drawing, to show actually existing drawing. OK. OK. And then, so the other question is that the window that you want to add on this there, is that a new window, or is that also an existing that you want to change the size? It was an existing window that we are shrinking. Existing shrinking, okay. But again, make sure you show it on the existing drawings because it's nothing showing over there. Okay. On page seven, the one that says proposed north elevation, the window on the first floor is smaller than the one on the second floor. It has to be, I mean, please make it exactly the same size. I think that was the staff recommendation as well, and the same double hung window. You said the window on the second floor. Right. I'll wait until he. Yeah. Double-hung window. You send a window on the second floor Right Oh, wait until he yeah, just you just go to that page. I think the idea The window on the first floor that you're replacing is actually Smaller than the window on the first floor second floor. That's above it With this guy here go to page number nice. So we're asking that the width of the windows be exactly the same width Okay, right now. Yeah, it's Something happened So we've lost There you go. No, okay So the window on the first floor, which is a already jump in window in the first floor Which is a big picture window, is smaller than the two windows above it, and architecturally they should align, so they should be exactly the same width. Okay, my question is, are you talking about the windows on the side or the windows in the back of the house? In the window in the back of the house. It should be the same width as the two double windows above. Okay. Similar to the where it says existing exactly that one, not the bottom one. Yeah, okay, in the drawing. I think that's part of staff's recommendations of mistaken. Simon. We be clear. The bottom drawn is not what you want. No. No. No. You want the time. No, we don't want either. No, correct. You're right. If you zoom out, so that we can see the... We want something similar to the top one, to what it changes. You want to change it so that if we... If you put that top one back in at the same size, it's going to be in conflict with your countertop. So we're asking you to... You can raise the seal of the window, which is the bottom of the window. OK. But keep the width of it exactly the same. Gotcha. And double hung. Gotcha. It doesn't have to be a double hung. I was Mr. Conkey. I mean, I think Mr. Conkey and I talked about this. That it could be a casement window. Because that, I mean, a double hung of that proportions is going to look reallyiff. So the the the staff are going to go to top one. Yes. Okay. Got it. Got it. Just to clarify this staff recommendation on this one. The first floor window in the west elevation aligned with the window above and be too side by side double hung windows similar to the second floor window above. Now, um, um, um, um, especially is absolutely correct that could be, uh, two case with windows instead of two double hung windows. The configuration is, you know, we're happy to work with the applicant on the operation of that. I just think a double hung in that little height. Yeah, staff is completely happy to work with them on the operation of the window. It's just more about getting the proportions correct or the widths correct. Yeah, correct. I defer you again, is Andy on? Yeah, that sounds good. And again, please just correct the drawings. Please, I don't know, hire a proper architect or someone to just draw correctly. The window on the bottom, the basement window on the bottom, it's not shown in the correct location. If you look at the pictures, it's right aligning with the other two windows above. And then on the east elevation, which I believe is actually north elevation, shown here, again, that the make sure that the basement window is shown correctly, the one that you want to make it smaller. This one says, again, existing elevation, but it's showing the new exercise is exactly the same. I believe, again, it's not shown correctly. Just overall, these fixed drawings, because we need to see both of them. We need to see exactly what's changing from before, after. OK. And then on the next page, page 8, it says, the existing second floor plan and the proposed second floor plan. The existing floor plan has a smaller window. Is that correct? That you want to make the smaller window into a bigger window on the upper level. In the back of the house? Right. Whatever. Yes. That is because it seems that you either have already changed it to a larger window or the drawing is incorrect. The drawing must be incorrect because the way that the house is now, all we're doing is taking off one window which is beside the back door. That's the only window that's coming out and when you see it's boarded at, that's what good is the one that you can talk about. There needs to be a line. Right. It's a stringent for the camera top. Okay. But the rest of the interface of one is, that's the way it gets. As you can see. Okay. That's all my comments. I think that's what I'm going to do. I think that's what I'm going to do. I think that's what I'm going to do. I think that's what I'm going to do. I think that's what I'm going to do. I think that's what I'm going to do. I think that's what I'm going to do. I think that's what I'm going to do. I think that's going to be in your kitchen. There's approving the removal of the window you already took out and then approving the shrinking of the old window to accommodate the kitchen area and this staircase or whatever it is. The one on the side of the house, you're making it smaller. I assume because of your new layout in the house or this staircase or this staircase. Okay, so I understand the scope of it and I'm prepared to support your application. I'll just echo what Miss Andean says. When you come back to us with the bigger problem we had last time was we really didn't have a sense of the proportions of the porch that you were proposing. So whenever you come back to us with the porch, I would just make sure you double and triple check the drawings just to give us a good sense of what it, you know, it might look like. Okay. So otherwise I don't have any feedback on your application. Okay. Can I ask one more thing? I'm sorry. The small window that you want to add above this there, please make sure on the exterior that is exactly in the middle of the two upper windows that is aligned, it's centered to the two other windows when if you bring sheet A3. Right. I'm not sure if it is. It looks a little bit off the center. So you see the two windows on the top, on the second floor. Get like it, right? Basically in the center of that, if you bring a line, that should be the center of the window below. Okay. window below. Okay. Is that it? Is Andy on? That's it. I believe that the Space Main window is also in the center, so they should all align. Okay. Ms. Thauninho. Sorry. I can support this application with the comments of other board members. Mr. Lions. Yeah, I mean, I can support the limited scopes that you're trying to do today. But yeah, I'm going to thank any future. Things would need a little bit better design work. But yeah, I could support this application today. OK. The only other thing that I would add to what Miss Dantian has already mentioned is that could you make sure the head of the new window that you're putting on the, or you're calling the East elevation is aligned with the head of the window next to it, because right now they're not. Okay. That makes sense, Mr. Conkey. The two window heads are not aligned on their drawings. Which window, the window's coming out. That little window's coming out. The one on the right, the big one's, that's already out. Okay, that's already, it's just gonna be one window there. It's already blocked out. Yeah, I remind them. I'm confused. I move to approve this application with staff recommendations. Would you like to add, and there's maybe a friendly amendment, Miss Dandy, and about centering that window? Well, that's up to you. I'm not opposed to it. I'm just concerned. I don't want to. My guess is that that window was located because of the stair and it may not be possible to make it exactly in the center. Architecturally so I. I would be a little bit uncomfortable requiring that. We are concerned about the exterior of the building. Well, that's right. I don't have a problem with being slightly off-center. a little bit uncomfortable requiring that. We are concerned about the exterior of the building. There's not enough for a view. That's right. I don't have a problem with being slightly off center. So I'm not going to add that, but feel free to. I would like to add that in there. OK, hold on. Let's slow down. OK. All right, so yes, Ms. Sandian, I agree that we are concerned with the exterior of the building. But when I look at, when I do kind of look at where the stairs place, the stairs going up in that general direction from the inside, just functionally, you may have a stair that's actually in conflict. You may have a window that's in conflict with the stair. Just based on the plans I'm looking at, can you go to that plan drawing really quickly? The problem is that I don't, I'm not even sure if the drawings are correct. Yeah, I can't. Yeah, that's the issue. I'm not sure if the drawings are correct. It would be nice if it was placed centered over the basement stair, but I don't know if that's actually possible. That's why. And I have no confidence in the drawings at this point. So we're relying on staff to make sure everything gets built correctly, Mr. Colkey. Well, should we put in the motion now? Should we have a motion out there? I'm trying to negotiate. I made a motion out there right now, but Miss Sandion is trying to make us kind of a amendment to the motion. Should we put in the motion that this is possible, even though I don't agree. Because this seems to be a new stair, right? So it would be moved a little bit. Is the stair in place already? Yes. That's what I thought. Because they got approved to do the interior work conditionally. So I assume most of the interior is done. Do you, you're familiar with the project, do you think that if you center the window, it will be in conflict with the stair. I will have to go back and look. Let's say that you work with staff to try to get it centered with the, you know, as it should, if it works or align it with the basement window location wise, if possible. Staff is comfortable with that. If the Mr. Vice Chair, are you comfortable with that for me, amendment? I'm comfortable with just as a condition having you work with staff to make sure that the windows are in an optimal alignment given the layout of your house. Okay. Second. Second. Okay. All those in favor say aye. Okay. Okay. Second. Third, second. Okay. All those in favor say aye. All right. Hold on. Fast. Hold on. Is demo is more than 25 square feet of demo? Yes, it is. Because we got a bunch of windows and stuff, so. It's just there, but yeah. It's guy. Okay. Yeah. I'm sorry. Mr. Lions was the second right? I'm sorry. Yes. It's moving too fast. All right. Ms. Andian. Aye. Mr. Scott? Yes. Ms. Dunnee-Nue. Aye. Mr. Lions? Aye. Mr. Spencer. No. Congratulations. The items are. No, congratulations. The items are passed. Thank you. Welcome. Is that it? That's it. All right, Mr. Conkey, what's next? Under new business. All right, I want to new business. Item number seven is BAR 2024-00196, Oldenstark District. A request for addition and alteration at 104 Queen Street. Applicants Harry Frazier, Jr. roofing and sheep metal LLC. It's an applicant on their representative here to speak on behalf of the project. Welcome, please stage name and to ask the question. Welcome. Please take your name and address for the record. Harry Frazier. Hadras. 1330-mountain-v-row. Stafford, Virginia. Would you like to make a presentation or just answer questions? No, I'll just answer questions. Okay. Is there any member of the board that has questions for the South African. Yes, I was wondering in terms of the height of the guardrail, I don't know how much higher is it than the parapet? About six inches. Okay, and the finish, the proposed finish of the aluminum. It's a baked-on powder coat. Is it a dark bronze? No, it's black. It's black. Yeah. It has a lifetime finish on it, it's black. It's black. Yeah. It has a lifetime finish on it, so it's a nice railing. I have a question. Oh, sorry. Were you not done this though? Yeah. Oh, okay. Will the guard rail be fixed to the top of the roof roll will be behind? No, it'll be behind it. I've got, uh, six by six is that it's going to go into and bolt to. Have you done any kind of analysis to see how far you would need to set it back to make the, the, like guardrail, it's two feet, minimally visible. It's two feet from the wall. Two feet. Have you, have you done any kind of mock setup or anything just to see where it would be? We took a couple poles and set up there and measured it to seize. So you have to remember to walk around to clean anything because there's a drain on the end down here. So you need to have some access to get around to that part of it. So technically you're two feet back from the wall. And the total height will be six inches above the height of the... Six or four, I'm sorry. I'm gonna do it. So long as this level, you know, based on how the roof running, because one part will be tall, I wanna be to make it all level. Okay, it sounds like it may not even be visible from this. Yeah, you won't see it. You won't see it from the ground. You'd have to be in an airplane to see it. Okay, I want to ask you, Ms. Zandion, do you have a question? No, it was exactly the questions. Ms. Zandion. All right. Any member of the public has questions for the applicant? Seeing none, we were closing, go to board deliberation. Ms. Zandion, look like you're ready to jump in. I have no problem. I support staff's recommendation. Are you making a motion? Sure. I motion to approve with the staff's recommendation. Is there a second? I second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? A nay. I have it. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. What's next, Mr. Conkey? Thank you, sir. Oops. Next item on our docket tonight is number 8 and 9. This is B-A-R-2024-00237, Oldenersdark District. Request for alterations at 302 South Saint Aces of Street the . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I'm going to have a look at the project. I'm going to have a look at the project. I'm going to have a look at the project. I'm going to have a look at the project. I'm going to have a look at the project. I'm going to have a look at the project. I'm going to have a look at the project. presentation or just want to answer questions. I think this is the answer questions. OK. If there anyone, remember the board that asked questions for this applicant? We want to, any member of the public that has questions for this applicant? So none will be closing. Go to board deliberation. Mr. Lyons, would you like to begin? I think it's a good idea to put the vote on the vote. I think it's a good idea to put the vote on the vote. I think it's a good idea to put the vote on the vote. I think it's a good idea to put the vote on the vote. I think it's a good idea to put the vote on the vote. I think it's a good idea to put the vote on the vote. I think it's a good idea to put the vote I could support this. You make an emotion, Mr. Lions? Sure. I move to approve item eight and nine with staff recommendations. Can I ask a question before we vote? Sure. Just in looking at your renderings, it appears that there are some new chimneys on the roof. Is that right that you're in? No, that's not correct. The chimneys that are on there are existing. Okay, I just didn't see that in your existing rendering. It just doesn't show the... Sorry about that. No, that's all right. I just wanted to make sure I understood. Thank you. So those two chimneys in the proposed changes are already there. Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for you, Marie. Would you like the second and most as much? I would like to second that motion. All right, Mr. Corky. I want to slow down and give you a chance. I know you have to stall a little before you. I'm going to tell you this. Last hearing of the summer and it's hot. Literally and figuratively. Yeah. Uh, Zandian. Literally, I think, or totally. Yeah. Zandian. Aye. Mr. Scott. Aye. Miss Dunnian? Mr. Lions. Aye. Mr. Spencer. Aye. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. I'm on the next one. Next one, so. Okay. You. Hi. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. I'm on the next one. So, I'll do it. Okay. You can stay there then. Mr. Colkey, read the next item into the document, please. All right. One second here. Our next item on the docket tonight is at a number 10, BAR 2024-00244, Old District District, request for a professional demolition encapsulation at 323 South Pitt Street, applicant is Harry Braswell. Corporate. Welcome. Hey. Robert Gwen Braswell Design Build, 4307 Wheeler Avenue. Okay. Are you here to give us a presentation or just answer questions? I can. I can just answer the next video. Okay. Okay. Are you here to give us a presentation or just answer questions? I can. I can just answer questions on this. Okay. Thank you. Any member of the board that would like to begin with questions? Can I ask on your new, on the side view, it appears that you're adding a door within awning. Yes. I ask how far out the awning will project. Oh, the awning. I can keep you in a proximate. Can you pull up the drawing? And also, what is the material? We're going to be a metal. OK, it looks like a metal. What will the metal be copper or? We'd hope to. We're just going to have to do copper, because it's going to have to be fabricated. OK. So is that what you would like to have as a copper? No, I'm just asking. Yeah, I think we will almost, well, I'm more likely it's going to be copper. OK. If I need to commit to that, I can commit to that. That's no problem. Thank you. My question is, is there a way to get a better composition of all these windows? I know you're adding the two at the bottom. So I should jump in and remind the board that the workmen of the visible are not visible. Not visible from the street, so it's not included in the application. I am Mr. Conkey. All right. I just strike my question from the record then. Thank you. All right. Anyone else that has a comment for this application? Is there any member of the public that has a question for this applicant? Saying none, may I have a motion, please? Or will begin the board deliberation? And if no one has any comments, we have a motion to approve. I motion to approve. I have a motion to approve. I motion to approve. I motion to approve. I motion to approve. I motion to approve. I motion to approve. I motion to approve. I motion to approve. I motion to approve. I motion to approve. I appreciate the giving me time to write here. Okay. Miss Andian. I Mr. Scott. I Miss Tony knew I Mr. Lions I That's right. I Congratulations. Thank you all very much. I appreciate you Mr. Kunky. what's the next item? Last item, right? Last item on our new business. I am going to be stepping out for that item. And I'll be turning over to my colleague here tomorrow, right? Mr. Harris, what is the next item? Well, I guess we have the way for Mr. Kunky to leave. Second, ma'am. Mr. Kunky, you need to move faster, sir. So we can bring the nicer conkey on. Yeah. Okay, Mr. Harris, can you read the next item on the docket, please? Next is item number 11, B-A-R-2024, 0-0-245, old and historic district. next item on the docket please. Next is item number 11, BAR 2024, 00245, Olden Historic District, request for partial demolition and encapsulation at 216 South Fairfax Street. Applicant is Mimi Boone and Randy Phillips. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for seeing us on the last hearing of the summer. Let's see. So I'm Karen Kanky, I'm representing my clients, Mimi Huynh, and Randy Phillips. My address is 407 South Least Street. Their address is 216 South Fairfax Street. My homeowners purchased, or didn't purchase this home. They got this home in 2013, 2015. And it's been in their families since the early 20th century. So they're very lucky to have inherited this home. This is also the home you may remember that had the devastating fire about a year ago. So the drawings are as if the fire didn't happen. So if you were wondering why the roof is there, that's because that's the roof that will be put back. The fire did not ask for permission for demo. So we are asking for permission to demolish the rear sunroom that was put on approximately in 1994. And that will make way for a new larger addition that will enhance their living space. We also have a back wall on the second floor that we'd like to encapsulate in that new addition. And if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Okay, thank you. Sandy, remember the board that has a question for this application seems like Ms. Zandiana's ready to jump in. for this application seems like Miss Andiana's ready to jump in. I have a question on the rear wall that is, it shows that it's going to be demoed. Is that an original, like, historic wall? It is the rear wall. It's, yes, it is. That used to be the rear wall. It's it's yes, it used to be the exterior wall. Yeah, it used to be exterior wall. It's been mostly partially butchered where the sunroom attaches to it and then the second floor we're going to be punching holes in to make an addition upstairs. Is is that a fire was? The fire happened above the dining room in a bedroom on the second floor and then it rapidly spread to the rest of the house. So the house is pretty damaged. So we're going to be putting it all back, which is great. But the addition, this is just an opportunity for them to expand their kitchen and living space on the second floor. So that wall is not is is that going to be exterior now? The old wall? Or is that still going to be here? It'll be encapsulated in the addition. OK. Yep. Thank you. That's all my question. Mr. Varscher. I can do I assume from your comments that the new addition will be visible in the whole. It's not. Yeah, I forgot to mention that I'm sorry. That's clarifies it. Right. That's already designed. You just need us to prove the demolition. Exactly. Yep. All right. Miss Douning you? I didn't see the age of the sunroam. It said none historic. What does that mean? Do you know what that was? We had a permit search and it was 1994. So 30 years. And it lists out on you. Mr. Lyons, do you have any questions? Yes, sir. Would you like to make a motion, sir? Oh, nope, can't do that yet. Slow down. Can you remember the public that has questions for this applicant? Seeing none, we will go to board deliberations. Miss Sandian, would you like to begin? I approve the staff's recommendation. Yes. I motion to approve with staff's recommendation. Is there a second? I'll second that motion. Okay. Mr. Harris? Okay, we will now do a roll call vote. Ms. Sandion? Aye. Mr. Scott? Yes. Ms. Donino? Aye. Mr. Lines? Aye. And Mr. Spencer? Aye. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Have a good summer. Lines. Aye. And Mr. Spencer. Aye. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Have a good summer. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Let's give a five minute break. We're going to adjourn for five minutes for I don't think this is a crime. I don't think this is a crime. What are you going to do with that? Okay. Okay. That's a question. We're going to see a lot of people. I've been having a lot of time. I think that's the key point that we're all going to do. Yeah. The one in the folder, or the other in the chat. The one in the folder, or the chat. Yeah. I I can look back on your stuff. I can look back on your stuff. I can look back on your stuff. I can look back on your stuff. I can look back on your stuff. I can look back on your stuff. I can look back on your stuff. I can look back on your stuff. I can look back on your stuff. I can look back on your stuff. I can look back on your stuff. I can look back on your stuff. I can look back on your stuff I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. I'm going to say that. I'm going to see for a minute. It's going to be that all time work together. So, uh, I can't tell anyone about the wheel. Before we were in the race, I was like, You're in that basketball, and it's going to be a ball grab ball. It's bad. It's bad. It's bad. You know, I think I was going to show you like that. I put the pressure current down. Oh, yeah. She's easy to let me see. I just want to go back to my home. She has to go, yeah, just let's see. I'm like, yeah. I'm not going to see her first. No, no, no. I've been going for a couple of hours. I've been going for a couple of hours. I've been going for a couple of hours. It's very exciting. This is an annual list. I spoke to a woman, so I'm excited. This is Andy Fule. I was looking for himself. I'm sure that was the best. So the shutter, the call, the system, the shutter, all of that. Yeah, the time I was thinking about, the light we have, this is the first question. Yeah, I can't remember the time. I think I'll let you know my time. And this, I'm excited. Yeah. So that's fine. of a key factor. So, just to start with the first figure, I think we have one for the volume and then this, I can have something more in the end of the round, like one of those, I believe, but we have a strong, complex step up that, and it's really, really, really important on the roll. And how do I put the notes on? And so, this is a sort of, I think, I expect a lot of fun. And so this is our last question. I can't expect to hold hands. I'm looking for a way. So maybe I'll try to help you. I'm going to go for it. Yes. I'll try to help you. I'm going to go for it. Yes. I'll try to help you. I'm going to go for it. That's the first time I've ever seen a lot of my experience in college. I Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. I'm not taking up the arms. I was just thinking about the shoulder. So, what was your chair? I put a marker on the readout. We didn't make sure. We didn't hit it here. No, we didn't. We said. Oh, actually. I was a marker. You had to punish a thesis. I don't have to have to have to. We did not. We had a chair, or else. This is a means of it. I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can just say, I can I'm going to have to sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. All right. All right. All right. All right. All's reconvene. Using my GAVO again, Mr. Conkey. Yeah, I feel like that was directed at me and I feel like it was a little bit more aggressive than normal. Mr. Conkey, you want to read the next item under the business? Well, nervous here. Item number 12 under other business is BAR 2024-0015, Oldenstork District Equestria a concept review to at 501 North Union Street. Applicant is R T N East LLC and R T N West LLC. Welcome. Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the BAR. My name is Ken Weyer with the Law Furniture and Wire Gill. We are a zoning council for the project. My colleague Megan Repolt is here, our client, Rooney Properties, Greg Hoffman, is the owner of the weather tonight. So I apologize, he's on his way here and had to go back home. Mr. Chairman, with your indulgence, I'm gonna ramble for a bit about the history of this project and we have a slide deck because you all are members of the community not just sitting here as B.A.R. members, but also people who live and work nearby. So Rob is a terminal north. I first started working on this project almost 15 years ago. As many of you know, it's at the corner of Ornoco and Union and Pendleton at the top of Old Town District proper and we're just outside by one block. I summarized to my client, you all are reviewing this because during the waterfront plan, someone said, you know, we should probably hear what BR has to think. Even though you're outside the technical district, we're coming to you as Mr. Conkey, very well lays out the staff report for concept review. So with few slides, just a set of context. As many of you know, this is subject to the subtle agreement with the United States government in 1983, which sets our building block so we don't have a lot of leeway on height scale. We sort of have these very distinct areas we can build in. I'll tee up a few issues on the open space, and I'll turn it over to our very capable design team, which have some very recent images. I believe we sent them to Mr. Conkey last night this morning, but they're there that recent. So, it's afternoon. It's afternoon, even later. So, I'll just go ahead and get a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of for the East and Western building, and this is an updated image. I do want to note to anybody who's watching tonight, the open space is illustrative. We have meetings with staff of the next couple weeks. For those of you who don't remember the area, there's an acre of space on the waterfront that will be given to the city or kept as open space. The East building is about an acre, and the West building is about an acre. So think of this as a three-acre site, one-acre west of Union and two-acre east of Union with one being open space and one being building and the Union Street, I'm sorry the ornogos street ending is actually city land. That's probably the most up in the air We're talking to staff about what they want to see there. It's actually their land not ours But it's part of our project. We'll be doing an update So I just wanted to mention to people who have seen this drawing for the first time, the open space is probably the most in flux. Next slide. One more. So there are six or seven slides that we did not bring tonight, but this is sort of the macro moves of the site. As you can see on the left hand side, a lot 601, we refer to that as the west building, that is a 66-foot tall building with the Batonaker footprint of building area. On both these drawings, the garages are accessed from the northern end of the site. In addition to the federal government settlement agreement, we also have very strict flood plan envelopes. So we're fitting between a 12-foot average sea level elevation and that 45, sorry, that 30, 45, and 66-foot height requirement by the federal government as you head from east to west. And then the outline on the black UC parcels at D and C, there's this black inner circle. There is below grade parking, if you will. On the eastern site, it'll be above grade on the western. That's due to contamination below grade. And the fact that this was an industrial site, the actual western building slab is actually more or less strong enough to handle our building. I'll have to do some minor site utility work, but I think most of the community was pretty pleased to hear we will not be disturbing that land on the west because of that historical contamination from the power plant up the hill from the 1850s. On the right hand side, these are just some inspiration images. Won't get too much into this, but the Oranoko Street end there. That's probably the most inflex staff wanted to see a more garden approach, just opposed to a vehicular. So we have beings with Bill and his team and other members to work through that southern street end. It's not technically part of our project. It's outside the boundaries of our project. But since we're out there with bulldozers and machinery, we'll go ahead and fix that up, however the city and the applicant think are the good combination of marrying the transition from Founders Park to this project up to Ornoco as you had from South to North. Next slide. So happy to come back to this. It's interesting in each review body has a different sort of lens. The Urban Design Advisory Committee, which is our regulatory reviewer, instead of you all, they're very, very specific down to the inch on cross-section. So I kept the slide in here. This was city sort of driven how we're going to divide up this crossway from north to south. You can obviously see the walking lanes, the tree pits, the bicycle lane, then two 10 foot drive aisles, and then me or to get on the side. The one comment we did get is the grass areas here will probably not stay grass. It's probably more of an urban street grade because the pedestrian traffic here will be so high. We don't think that grass will look very well. Look very good or survive. And of course, this is city right of way. So it'll be maintained by the city. But I'd just kept this in here because it's such a focal point for Old Town North. We wanted to be clear that we're meeting those design guidelines. This is just a view to the north, the same street section. These are to scale. And at this I would like to give you a brief overview to the north. At same street section these are to scale. At this point I believe Christian will turn it over to you. And Mr. Chair and staff if you want to stop at the East building or West building let us know we probably have another dozen or so slides to walk you through to really give you an idea of the high mass scale architectural character where we're heading. I did want to note that Mr. Conkey staff report as usual we agree with 95% of it. Everything was worded about right. There's some things we, he said we should consider. We might consider it, but not actually do. But most of his items, we get a lot closer than what actually saw in the first submission. So I just wanted to sort of categorize those dozen recommendations as something we'll continue to work on. Thank you. Thanks, Ken. And good to see you all. Thanks for having us tonight. Personally, just appreciate your feedback. I think the last time we were here was in February. And since then, we've been continuing to develop the drawings. We have more renderings and visualizations. So again, like Ken said, as I go through, if you have any questions, please let me know. And as just a background of who we are, we like to create iconic buildings that stand out by fitting in. So context is a big thing of who we are in our philosophy. And the big idea behind this project for us and for hopefully the communities to create a something that captures the spirit of the place that's in harmony with the adjacent buildings, the scale, the dignity and character. And so part of that experience was understanding was before even, started designing was to understand the neighborhood and the history and try to celebrate some of that. In some of the updates, I'll just kind of summarize on this pace is the ground floor, but we looked at refining the lobby entries, the masonette stupes, the restaurant designs, the residential window detailing, and also the at the ground floor for the retail. And then also we got into like, you know, roof private terraces. So we'll show those as we go through the project. And again, understanding the character of the building and taking cues from some of the things that we were really excited about too was the four old Ford factory about Albert Conn and, you know, looking at those details from the articulations, the bricks, the colors, the materials and really diving to that and kind of like see how we could bring that into this new project and then also the torpedo factory with its open corners engaging and welcoming areas that are outside that bring people in off the sidewalk and also the residential characters. This is a view, I think last time it was in more sketch form, but it kind of shows the overall composition with the Potomac River, the park, and then the special restaurant that's a circular area that engages that, and then the east building that's smaller, split into, that. And then the east building that's smaller split into, so that you can get more views, lights, more corner conditions, and also then across the street, the western building, which is a little bit taller. Over bar shaped, we kind of try to articulate that, but then that building, because the smaller building split, kind of can look through the views. And we have a couple images that kind of help support that as well. And so this is looking down Union Street from the North, looking at the East Building. Just thinking about the streetscape and how that can help be part of the connection between the old town south and then the neighborhood to the north and make that a continuous experience. And then also engaging with the landscape, with the stoops, with the bike paths, and then how we articulate the facade to make it an interesting experience as one's walking through to. This is the updated lobby entrance. So it been able to see the changes. This is the updated lobby entrance. It's hard to see here, but we did add the comments. Looking at how we articulate a canopy. We do have a canopy coming through. We did try to make it more transparent so you see through. And then also with the elevations, the road at that center is for working with the flood elevations lifted. So it's a simpler entrance off the sidewalk. There's no stepping, there's no ramping. It's just you go right into it. And then you go in and then you go to the right and left and then into the residential. This is looking from across the street towards the east building. So we've been working on refining the stoves, the sequence from the sidewalk to the front doors of the masonnets. They're more centered. They work and they work proportionally with the windows throughout. And then we also looked at the refinement of the windows and the mullions, the openings and how all those little details give articulation to the facade as well. And we can also, I think there's a comment on how the steel connects to the brick. And we don't have an image of it, but we have like a recessed channel we can get into that detail later. And then one of the things I think was a big comma was like how to make this restaurant more special, engaging with the waterfront, with the park. So I think we try to soften it. We try to add this green color, working with the landscape, and we have a few views of it from the inside and outside. So it kind of really becomes a moment to get people excited about it. And there's a lot of different grade elevations. This is from like the area we're new looking down towards it. We'll have it landscapeed above. And this is looking at the building. We're going to be looking at the building. We're going to be looking at the building. We're going to be looking at the building. We're going to be looking at the building. We're going to be looking at the building. We're going to be looking at the building. on to the river inside and then you know, creating generous terraces on the outside too. The palette, I think, you saw a little bit of this before. I think we are dialing down, dialing into the brick. So on the east building, we're looking at this weathered brick that's a little bit lighter and then on the base where the steps and the terraces are for the masonettes, a little bit of a shade darker there to give a little articulation. And then the planted pavilion, making it more sculptural. Some elevations. OK. And that was the East building. the . That was the east building. Any questions or comments at this point before we move on to the west building? I had a question on the south elevation of the east building. The ground floor. Is there glazing there or is that brick? The south elevation of the east building on the ground floor? So there is glazing, so she's talking about the round the corner. Yeah, the ground floor does have windows and it does have the same balcony treatment. Because the road dips down so low there, it goes down to about seven feet when it's about 11 feet at the north side of North Union, there is some wall and planter there, which is basically it has to be flood wall up to 11 feet, or up to 10.4 feet, and then we have our ground floor is one foot above that. the first window. So right now it is brick for about four or five feet up until you get to the first window. Okay. This is the west elevation. The west. Yeah. So it's the top elevation there. You can see there's a band of brick that run this. The bottom line was. Yeah. The south is the bottom right? Right. Yeah. Oh, no, the south is a top. I apologize. The south is the bottom. Incorrectly labeled. Yeah. Okay. The south is the top elevation. Okay, then I guess the question was is the top elevation. Okay, then I guess the question was for the north elevation. Yeah, oh, okay. At the north, yeah, that's our fault. We'll make sure we fix that. That's the parking garage entrance. So we have an inset there so that we can still get some articulation, but at the ground floor there's no glazing because that's the parking garage. I do want to go to the ground floor. The plan. Sure. So yeah, you can see up at the north there. That's the garage ramp coming in. Mr. Chair, if I may. When we did this 15 years ago, we had a lot of discussion about this corner. It's a very important obviously. You're bringing this up because you see it from far away. And we are happy to continue to work on the detailing of that facade. The short version is that it's the only place you can access that building with the floodplain being where it is. Because if we brought it south, you'd be already below 12 feet. So when you drive in and you have to go over a hump, if you will, at a 10 feet 4 inches. So it's kind of stuck on that northern corner. So we don't disagree that that that that that has to be treated. And I'm sure staff in the final DSP approval condition will work with it on the architecture and how the brick pattern has worked, but it pretty much needs to be solid. But I don't think that necessarily precludes a great design. And we in the landscape plan are planning some active areas at that corner for play equipment and some sort of creative player for children. So we're taking that sort of blank wall where residents aren't and using it as an opportunity to enhance activity, not from the building, but from the adjacent streetscape. I comment as for the elevation of the restaurant or the perception of the restaurant. Yeah, you probably noticed that it hasn't been updated. Yeah, which one is correct? Cause the drawings have one and I assume that renderings are correct. The renderings are more recent. Okay. They were included this morning, so it's very much more. This has just the thin or thagonal thing. Yeah, which I personally appreciate more. Oh, okay. Because if you go back to the renderings, the renderings, the renderings don't take offense to this, but it reminds me of a bridge structure, the metal bridge structures that are all painting green throughout the Northeast of America. And that's what it reminds me of. And I'm not sure, I don't know if it's fitting for what it's supposed to be. It doesn't add to the beauty of it to me, because the curved edges, I like curves, I like archies and everything, but this just reminds me of a metal bridge. Mm-hmm. I mean, maybe that was the concept, and maybe you hit it, right? I don't know what that was. It was intense. Yeah, it goes over the potom right now. But it's, yeah, because it was something we were trying to make a little bit unique and special and something different from the rest of the building. And we don't have any curves or anything like that in the rest. It was like the one moment to think of it as something that could be interesting in that way. Just building off of the steel that we had before. But yeah. Kristen, could you go back one for a second? It's fascinating for me to watch the creative process on this image here. How do you make two buildings look like they're compatible, but not identical? So it was subtle for me to pick up the green on this colonnade for lack of a better term. It's meant to bring forth a green in the back that we'll see on the West building. Just sort of show them as a sister building for lack of a better term. And then staff also wanted us to blend that indoor outdoor instead of having that hard edge where you walk up and hit a wall of glass. And I think the waterfront plan, I don't think, it mandates us to be a hub of activity. And if we made a two-star, people wouldn't know if it's open or private, so it still can be evolved. And it will be evolved if we work with staff. But that was the design intent, Christian. I think it was to sort of soften that walk up and hit a wall of glass instead of making it a sort of phase entrance into that dining space. And the green was like the tile on the west building, too, that helps break up the part, too. But it can be any color. We just started with this. Just a personal tasting at this point, right? It reminds me of a bridge that's all on them. Not sure I like it that way. I like the cleaner kind of clean- clean lines. It might be just the scenes that, you know, it makes it more industrial look, maybe just a small, I actually really like both the design curve and the color of it. So maybe small adjustments. Just one thing to be mindful of is that we get a lot of sun. It's very beautiful with all the glass. And I do appreciate that you mentioned that we get a lot of sun. It's very beautiful with all the glass. And I do appreciate that you mentioned that you have a large white terrace. It helps. But usually, then the entire, like, even inside of the restaurant might feel uncomfortable, like that the sun going, you know, hitting your eye. But just something to be mindful of. Right, right. And something we can also work with landscape, placement of trees and orientations. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. While keeping an open view, yeah, it's working with both those. And one of the ideas of the design is like this industrial refine. We're not going, which can be interpreted in many ways. Not pure modern, but just like working with that. But yeah, I get it. The restaurant is primarily facing East as well, so... It's not as much. Yeah, it would be, like, maybe breakfast that would be in your face, but afterwards, it should hopefully be a bit more comfortable. Yeah, I realized that, but also it's kind of curved, so it gets rumble. But it can be resolved with interior shade. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. We don't show you in that level. Is the terrace on top? Is there a roof terrace or is it just green? And that would be, it's a roof terrace that is accessible to the tenants. It's not shown here, but there's a, I'll show you in plan. Maybe it's better. It's, see, there's a bridge from the second floor. See, so this is the ground floor, obviously, and then it's an internal courtyard and When you're on the second floor and you're in that lobby There's a there's a pedestrian bridge that gets to the top of that area so that's a kind of a amenity with landscaping And a public or not public but common for the residences. So it's not for the restaurant. It's not for the restaurant. We looked at how you could do that and there would be an elevator bulkhead going up and then two sets of stairs. So we had a connection to the building and we don't really have a big outside terrace for the Common areas so that would be like the you know, we would bring them to and then the residents can get a sense of going out to the the park to from you know inside nice view. Yeah, yeah, thanks But again landscape will be half the the fun and challenge to do that. So. I will just weigh in to say that I actually very much like the design, the new design. I like the green and I like the metal seams. It reminds me a little bit of the lower east side where you have these old, Twee buildings next to a more industrial element. And I think it adds architectural character. And it evokes DCA a little bit. You have a lot of exposed steel there. It's painted. It's yellow. But so to me, I think it fits in. It is totally a matter of taste. And I'm not convinced. I'm not in the work with me. So I was letting you know it's, I like it. Yeah. I think it's the office. I'm not in the office. I'm not in the office. I'm not in the office. I'm not in the office. I'm not in the office. I'm not in the office. I'm not in the office. I'm not in the office. I'm not in the office. I'm not in the office. I'm not in the office. I'm not in the office. I see it's all open on this ground floor and you can pass through it. And then it's just the bridge on the second floor and it's connected to the circular rooftop. And the courtyard itself, is there going to be ingress and egress to the restaurant from the courtyard? No. Right now. No, that's kind of an enclosed common courtyard and the residents can go around to access it. I mean, it looks like part of the restaurant here, between like seven and eight or eight and nine o'clock on the clock, on the round clock. It's going to be, the windows are just going to be staring into an apartment courtyard. Is that sort of what, or is there a staircase there? Is that what's going on there? Right, so circular staircase. At the south side of the staircase, we have our second means of egress from the terrace down into the courtyard, so that if you're on top of the terrace, you can cross the bridge above and go into the lobby and down. Yeah. You can come down the exterior staircase that circles. So that's a wall, that's an option. Yeah, but there's like a sort of gray wall that's like a semi-circle around the back and that essentially blocks off the restaurant from the residential area. Okay, so then the courtyard is going to be very dark then. We've done some sort of preliminary shade studies, and it is pretty OK. I mean, the restaurant is only one story tall. And the square sort of towers, as we were, are only four stories tall. So there's not that much blocking it all that much. I think it's also meant to be a private courtyard for the two-store units facing it. So... Oh, I see. Yeah. So there shouldn't be any... That would be a private courtyard element for particular units, not just for as a common area. Yes, sir, that's correct. I see. If we go back to the plan for a second, so I should have mentioned, this is, you know, in the scale of Alexandria, this is a relatively small project. We're talking about mid-70s units, a small number. So roughly 35 each, and those four yellow boxes that face in our courtyard, they have no exterior views. Yeah. Yeah, so the reason here that we came up with this design is to have an interior courtyard for them And I think as Luke was mentioning the glass on the west and the lower building on the right It's not perfect, but last time we did this we just boxed it and said TBD And now we're trying to lower it in the rather than much as we can and get some sort of sense of private open space Which is much light as we can in that interior courtyard. Yeah, so I totally get it makes sense All I will offer is like, that's really valuable, real estate space in this design, and to partition it for four residents, just seems like a missed opportunity. That's just my opinion. I know we talked last time about having a means of ingress from the street through the apartment building to the restaurant. I see you sort of have a design around that, but again, I just think that's like, I do think there's an opportunity there to draw people in, you know, so take that for whatever that's work. Okay. And we have some work on that courtyard too, I think, because it's got the bridge, you know, I think the light from the south kind of trickles in and we're gonna work with some water elements landscape and Yeah, well we'll continue to develop that All right Just you're ready to go to the West building is that it okay, do you all okay? I'm sorry. Okay. On the west building, similar comments, similar updates with the residential entry. We have a, we articulated the canopy. The store front design, that was a big one to make it look unique, different, engaging with the street that's open and the residential window design. And then there's also a two-story restaurant at the North End and how we articulated the trellis and the second floor. So I'll go through those same way to the east building. And so starting with the southeast corner, again opening that up, taking that cue from the torpedo factory. This is a quieter corner. So we're thinking, cafe kind of opens across the street towards the founders park. So there's a visual connection. It's slightly elevated because of the flood plain. So we have a series of sequence of terracing and access to that. And then on the ground floor, you can see the retail windows. I think before we just amounted all had generic grid on it, here we have like these open by folding doors that in the nice weather can be open fully or can be closed, but when it's open fully, you'll see a nice atmosphere connection to the sidewalk, nice, generous sizes as well. Also, more articulation and refinement of the millions and where the openings are, you know, again, the refined industrial look. And then we have more, but the middle of the building, that's where, because it's a more of a slightly articulated dumbbell building, that middle is broken up with the green glaze the brick that we're thinking about. And that's a kind of example of looking right at it across from the east building. The, it's a little bit tough to see here, but on the ground floor. Again, the sequence is sort of simplified because there's no stairs or ramps because we brought up the elevation of the street to the floodplain. And then to articulate the entrance, there's a subtle curve in that glazed brick to articulate that center entrance. We'll talk about the building. The building is a little bit a little bit of a cut to see here, but on the ground floor. Again, the sequence is sort of simply simplified because there's a subtle curve in that glazed brick to articulate that center entrance. We'll talk about one of the comments earlier was about the dividers and we can show or talk about that in a little bit as we get more detail. This whole idea is like because it's a long building, let's break it up and make it more scalable. And then this is something new. This is looking at from the area we're new looking across the street union in Pendleton. And so on the far right, there's a little box of brick. That's like the car entrance. So that's an opportunity where we could build on top of it. And then we have two stories of, you know, we're thinking something special like a brewery or some kind of special food and beverage. And then bring people the patio on the bottom, make that as engaging as possible, then through the space and to the second floor. And then so we've got this trellis idea where you can have an outdoor kind of seating. And then the trellis provides privacy you can have an outdoor kind of seating and then the trellis provides privacy and lighting for the residential above or even looking at a system where it can be opened or closed on the roof you know the the fins could be closed or open so there's privacy and shading But you know, we just wanted to like celebrate that corner and you know know, and bring, you know, as people come down from Ornoco Park. And this, kind of nearing the end of the presentation, but this is, you're on the, I think it was at the third floor of the West Building looking over the east. So, and this is kind of testing the proof of concept of why we broke that East Building to two pieces Separated by this glass connector so that you can maximize views bring in lights and People from you know every aspect can enjoy the views not just from one building and so there's a little bit of detail of the green Glaze brick and then To the right inside of that you don't see it. But behind the colonnade would be the terrace dividers. And we would think that we haven't shown it. We haven't articulated as much. But we're thinking that could be like some sort of metal box with planters for vegetation. And so you keep the plannerter box, you know, the guard rail height, but then the plants will eventually grow and get the dividers. And it's also kind of concealed a little bit behind the columns. And these are some of the materials we're thinking about, the ribbed brick pattern that's standing from the old Ford factory building. And this is going to be like a lighter brick also. And then you can see the glazed brick tile that we're thinking about. Also the brick screen for the parking. And then some of the warm, great metal articulation in Castone. And here are the technical elevations. And I believe right, right, there's more updates on this bottom elevation, which is the west elevation of, you know, with the brick screening of the parking, having those get tighter, matching the composition of the windows above. Yeah, again, these elevations are slightly behind some of the more detailed renderings, but we didn't render this side because it won't really be visible from the street. There's currently a brick wall at the north side that is about seven feet tall. So it would really just be our next door neighbor who sees that facade. And if you walk up there today, my office is to block the window where you can actually see this from my office that's about the same site. And a high, excuse me, as he brick wall today. So we're really actually doing these adding some architecture or refinement. And as Luke and Christian mentioned, the patterning will line up. Maybe there's some color details we're going to add to this as we work through the final details. Yeah. And then I guess the last comment is like the elevation above, on the upper floors, we're setting back some of those inset terraces to help break up the massing as well as that central area and then the corners just to give a little bit relief to that scale as well. And I think that's... We've an overall image we can end on. Yeah, I do. There we go. Thank you so much. So, in closing, it's an interesting project in that we have a federal government box that was set and we're within the box and carving away at it. We're hoping to get your feedback. I can't wait. I agree with Mr. Conkey and most of all of his comments. We have further refinements, but we're hoping to get your support for our contextual character because just practically speaking, Avery knew finishes their work on the site by the end of March. We would like to mobilize after that. So we'd like to get to hearing City Council hopefully into this year. And that way there's no sort of vacancy period out there. Developers like to keep plan productive and not just sit there. So that's the reason for our somewhat urgency. We've been at this for about six months and I think this team's done a great job of making some refinements to these buildings and look forward to your input. And hopefully your support for the height, mass scale, general, architectural character. Thank you. OK, I had a couple other questions for you in the West Building. Again, it's that North elevation looking on our no-copy that I think is, you know, a very important elevation. So, yeah. No, if I saw it was you couldn't have put the parking entrance on the west, you know, where there currently is your little easement. I guess it wouldn't have fit on the west of your building. You know, I've ridden my bike through that parking lot and I see an easement there. I don't know if any easement, our property line ends, our west side is all property line. Can we go to the site, Christian, for a second? I think that's a great, that is the most technically challenging corner because you have the mountain bird and trail coming in, you have an arc, and I walk by there and do the railroad tracks, so we go back to the site plant, very perfect. So what you can't see, can you zoom in, Christian? I'll tap left-hand corner, because this is a very important one. Okay, go back to the site. Just zoom in a little bit on the top, left-hand corner. So when you're out there today, we were actually taking the railroad tracks up. And we're pulling back that corner so that when you come around the corner, think about what's happening. Yet people on bicycles, amphibians, and cars all turning that corner. So pulling back from that edge sort of helps us with visibility. Let's see if we can figure this out. I was looking at it. Maybe this was an earlier, the framework bubble plan you're showing We're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure that we're trying to make sure because of this, it's the fire department requires a line of sight between, you know, if you're coming out and then coming around the corner so that no one hits you. All right, it's a line of sight that's like, died, only it's not shown in this drawing, but. So it's set back so we don't have an awkward, chamfered corner. So, so we're set back roughly where it is today. I'm within a few feet. The good news is we worked really hard to have all loading internal. Many projects you've seen, you have a loading dock, and then you have a trash dock or car access right next door. Here both movements are happening inside. So you pull in and then you make your turning movement. So people who live all town north don't listen to the background, peeping up noises that will all be internal to figure that out. Okay. Well, I think it's nice that it's kind of mirroring the East Building. You know, the East elevation is recalling the two blocks of the East Building. I think it's nicely detailed. And the West Building, I think, is the massing is appropriate. I think that looks good too. I would just encourage you to work with staff on that north elevation, whether it may be that's even a green wall or if there's something you can do because that's so visible from our local Bay Park. We'll do. And the East Building, I think that the restaurant is looking nice. I like the softness of the curve and the set back of the glass. And I think that's a nice, that'll be a nice touch in the park. My can, oh, back up at one. One here? Now when you had the materials there. So you have this metal channel frame and I was anticipating that treatment of your balconies and I agree with staff report saying that the balconies are like, it needs a shave. It's got appendages. I don't know if you can work with making it look a little more industrial or warehouse, because that's, you know, your intent. And it looks like it, the individual balconies like that start to look like more of a multi-family building you may see in Crystal City or something. So if it were a little more detailing like this inspiration image, I think. OK. Thank you, guys. Understood. But I think it's going to be a nice addition. The scale too is appropriate nicely broken up and This next San Dianne I Agribute all the comments that Mr. Nino made and I actually quite like the project I all the comments that Mr. Delinio made. And I actually quite like the project. I praise you on the attention to details both in material and also in the volume, in the massing. And by that, creating really nice views and these stars towards the water for not just the East building, but also the West building. The combination of the material used, they work very well together, and they compliment each other. I like very much appreciate that you look at the context and the old historic old town and just area, this area, this area, and the fact that you had used those ribbed brick and also the detailing on the top, very top of the building, it's very nice, it adds to the character of the building, and also the use of the glazed, colored glazed, it's very nice, they all go very well together with the metal brick, the colors, everything works really well together. And looking at the previous restaurant design that you have, and the one that you're showing us, it has improved so much, I really like it as it's as you're showing the color, the sage kind of green color, the curves. It creates a really nice combination with the greenery, the landscape. These are pretty, James, these are pretty powerful comments. I am just a one member of this board. I think it helped. I got a good education in old town with the Virginia Tech campus campus like 30 years ago. So that old Ford factory stuck with me. It's also personal. I do really like this stage green color and the glaze green color. We're good with that. If it looks from this rendering that the ceiling inside is wood, which would make it really nice if it was. Yeah, we're definitely working on that. Here we had it wood as much as a couple days ago, and then we're looking at what's the inside once the outside. I think in this one, the outside is the metal in grain. And I think we just kind of put a pass on what the ceiling material would be, but it could work with the wood and the metal just as well. And then when you articulate it with the valances and the curtains and a little bit more interior, like even landscaping. I think it could be a nice transition with that too. And if you go to page 27, I think you're... Yeah, you... This one? This one or the one before that shows the corner. Oh, yeah. No, sorry, Then the next one. Yes. Because the columns are so tall very long, I think the lighting that you're showing there, it's very important. It really balances that height, the big round lights and hanging. It compliments that. Otherwise, I think the columns are very long. Right. Over too long. And then there was another view I believe it was on the other building, the East building, on the corner of it. Maybe page six, but I don't remember. And it might just be that view. Is it this one or? I was very beginning your show. Oh, this one. It might just be the view. Is that a 90 degree angle or is that it? Sorry, I have to look at the map. It's 90. Oh, so never mind. It's okay. Okay. Yeah. All right. I think that's all I think it's a very nice building. But two of them all of it. Three buildings, I should say. Okay. Mr. Lions. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry thing, it is tree vault town. And I've only been through a few of these concept review meetings, but I feel like you've really listened to the feedback. And that's always appreciated. Just because I feel like I need to chime in on the color of something is that I do like the restaurant thing and the color. I'm not an architect, so I call it a thing. I don't really like the green glazed bricks and the way that looks from across the street. I feel like it. That's my favorite part. I got it. I mean, if you go to that picture where you see the view from across the street, you know. Yeah, when you can, it's just my personal opinion. But and it may be the picture. It's probably the picture. And also the picture from the inside out. Looked at the tree. That's got an issue too. But I just, again, just my own personal opinion. That one right there, to me, that looks like a beach hotel. And now, not to say we're not on the water, but we're not at the beach. Yeah. You know, that to me looks like the kind of coloring that you see when you go down to, you know, a beach town. Right. And which maybe that's what you're going for. But I just think it, I just don't like it. It doesn't do anything for me. And I think I like that you're trying to make a contrast there. But I just don't like it. It doesn't do anything for me. And I like that you're trying to make a contrast there, but I just think maybe there's another color. But again, you probably won't, but it's just my opinion. And then I, you know, this one's right in your face. This is like, doesn't even show the wings of the masonry. Yeah, right. We were thinking like, holistically, let's not make a wall, but let's give something a little bit unique in the middle, but yeah, this one's like right there. That's all you see. And it's probably the picture and just like the one from the inside out. I mean, it just looks very, you know, shiny kind of. Yeah. That looks all more like South Beach, you know, kind of stuff you would see. Neonie. What's that? It's Clay's brick, it's gonna be shiny. So anyway, that's just my opinion, but overall it's a great job. I mean, I think it's gonna be great addition and you've done a good job. I've listened to feedback and worked with the staff and we appreciate that. And yeah, that's it. Thanks Michael. All right, Mr. Vice Chair. Well, I love the green clay's tile. Breakfast. It was my favorite picture, actually. The rendering from the inside looking east. I think green is my favorite color, so I'm biased, but I think it's beautiful. I mean, I could see you doing it in like a cobalt color or something, but I really like the green. I think it's great. And I like how it matches the other green, which I also like. Yeah. So I love the double height volume on the entrances on the corner of the door. It's the coolest thing. It reminds me of the Kennedy Center. I think it's beautiful. I really like all the designs. I do just want to endorse what Miss Del Nino said about the more industrial look on the East building. It's sort of giving us like fair oaks, but make it cool, you know, but like, maybe connect those a little more. I think that you have just more of an opportunity to make it a little bit more special, because I love that idea of the industrial. And it'll tie in with your design for the restaurant as well. Let me go into that. Yeah, just how they're separated, I think. I don't know if that's what it was going on. You know what I'm saying? But that's sort of, yeah. Yeah, it's sort of like, it's very conventional with a nice material, but maybe there's some way of connecting those horizontally. I'm making it seem like more industrial. I mean, you're cutting out the part I don't like, which is the space in between your vertical elements. Yeah, exactly. Oh, okay, okay, guys. So you just have those stripes, these vertical stripes, and you see that in condos a lot. You see that in the mosaic district. You're gonna see that in Claren't Inn. You're gonna see that a lot of places. But your inspiration image was more of a metal grid, right? So, it was more of a statement. I just pointed that out. But I do like the overall concept here. I love all the balconies and terraces you've included. I think that really improves people's quality of life. And it's really nice from the street to see the plants and the existence, the evidence of life from the street. So that's, I mean, I just think it's, you guys have done a great job. I think it's, I look forward to, I look relatively close to here, I look forward to check right out. Good, yeah. But yeah, this also I think was a comment like how the, how the metal meets the brick. And I think there's, it kind of shows that channel built into the brick and that, you know, on the wall and it's just something that I thought was a comment from earlier, but then your additional comment. Yeah, okay. Good. All right. So. I think when we get down to, I mean, when you break this down, we get down to these little nitpicky details you're doing a great job. We're talking about, you know, not sure I like to shade of that green. It means all the other things that we really talk about. We haven't really spoke about because they've already been in dress, so So yeah, I still feel high, feel about the green in the arches, but it's just my opinion. And I was going to tell Mr. Lianza, you were using a lot of my same words. So I figured that was going to be a losing argument right off the bat. But I do love the green glaze brick. I'm going to jump on that bandwagon. I was a fan of that one from the beginning. Yeah, I was a fan of that one from the beginning. So, you know, I am a fan of the Green Glace brick. But to talk about height, mass, scale, and architectural character, I think you've hit all those notes. There's just so much rich detailing in this building that, I mean, even looking at this one photograph, which I kind of glazed over initially, but now I'm looking at all the brick detailing that's involved in there. That's a lot of nice brick detailing that we love to see, and I really appreciate. Even, you know, yeah, even at the head of it, that's, I mean, the coping piece, that's a nice, some nice brick detailing there. A vertical brick and I really love that. And I love the, the detail that you poured from the old Ford factory that you, oh yeah, you didn't college. Which is great. Pulling in and that's a nice detail. And I love it on those tall columns that Miss Sandion talked about previously. So I think overall, this is a very lovely project. And I would think that members of this board are really ready to endorse this project. We don't get a, this is not coming back before us. So this is our last kind of view of this until they start construction. And hopefully not too much value engineering will take place. But hopefully not, but we always know that's coming. And this is where my concern is that lovely balconies are usually some of the first things to get value engineered out. Not out, but the details get come down. Right, right. So I would just ask you to think about those kinds of things because in the long run it being up being some other material, some metal panel, some kind, you kind of have to think about what that really is going to look like. Right, right, or something that gets glass or thick metal or aluminum. Yes, aluminum is, I've seen that down to aluminum before, and that's usually not a good look. So you have to see when some guy's out there with a metal bender trying to make it look like that shape. Yeah. But overall I do like the project and I think this board can endorse this project. Would the board like to take a vote to endorse the high-mascale and architectural character of the other project? Yes, sir. I think we should do a roll call vote, the one Mr. Kunky. Don't mind. I think we should do a roll call vote, the one Mr. Cunkey. Don't mind. OK. And one quick question. So it looks like this is like an iron spot brick. Is this the brick color that is I kind of like the dark, the slightly darker brick? We're trying to, like, we always spend the most amount of time in our renderings on trying to get the brick right, because it's so hard in different lighting. If you go to the brick or the pallet. Yeah, a little bit of range in that process. Yeah, on our pallet board, that's a photograph we took in our office of the brick we're using as the starting spec, which we have used before and it does have a pretty wide range. But we wanted to be, so you can see like the middle or on the left, yes, things. You can see there's some texture to it. And then the one on the right is basically the same brick, but a darker hue. Yeah. And that's just at the sidewalk, right? Yeah, that's at the ground floor. Just out of curiosity, are these apartments or condos? Condos. Yeah. Ooh. Eventually, we'll have to figure it out. Yeah. Later. out. Yeah. Later. Yeah. Yeah. We have a motion and a second to endorse, and then we'll do a roll call vote. Yes. Have a motion to endorse this project, please. So moved. Is there a second? Second. Mr. Colkey? I need to write faster. Miss Andian? Aye. Mr. Scott? Aye. Mr. Onnew? Aye. Mr. Lions? Aye. Mr. Spencer? Aye. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. It you all very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. It's sad to say we won't see you guys again. I know. It's helping to come back. I admit Mr. Conkey, what's next under your other business? Oh, okay. That's the last of our cases. We've got some board business to attend to here, so we'll through that and then at least you guys until this until September. I remember 13 and 14 I'm going to read them together they are bound together. 13 is a consideration of a motion to rescind the vote of June 20th 2024. Nine there are requests for BAR 2024-0038 Old District District for alterations at 201 Gibbons Street. And then tied to that as a consideration of a vote on the request of deferral of BAR 2024-0038, Old Mistake District for quest for alterations at 201 Gibbons Street. We will need these to be separate votes. Yes. So just note we are, if those who remember the Gibbon Street Project correctly, we are voting to rescind our deferral, not deferral, our denial of this project so that as a board, we can better define what the verbiage or wording definition is of what's the actual words we're looking for. We're reasonably repairable. We're reasonably repairable. And then we're not saying that in the future that we cannot turn this down. We're just saying, let's step back. Let's define this term and then move forward. So that may I have a motion from someone to send this to Pearl. I mean, this question. I have to reason. This needs to be unanimous, right? No, it does not, because it's on the docket. It does not need to be unanimous. It needs to be majority. Okay. I will move to vacate our, is it called, I'll move to rescind our vote. I will just say, though, that we had an extremely robust discussion that took almost an hour on this single issue. And I hope when we come back and see this again, that we can keep our discussion to the relevant issue of whether it is repairable or not. I just hope we don't have a repeat of that last. I feel like we're begging for trouble by vacating this, but I do think it's fair based on what we've said. So I will make the motion to respond. Is there a second? Second. Okay. You need a roll call, but Mr was too conky or you just... I know, it was just... All those in favor say aye. Aye. The opposed say aye. Aye, is habit. All right. Then we need a motion. We have a motion to accept the deferral. So moved. There is second. Second. All those in favor say aye. There is second. Second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed, say nay. Okay. Thank you. Next item on our docket. We have some updates to the BA or administrative approval policies for both districts. And I will turn this over to Mr. Harris who's going to run you through some of these changes. I don't think anything super significant here. I think we've cleaning up some stuff but I'll leave that to you to decide. Thank you. Okay. So the changes that stuff is proposing for the administrative approval policies are very minor. The first section is the list of items that do not require a BR approval. One change that we are proposing is a clarification that the demolition or encapsulation of less than 25 square feet of exterior building material does not require approval. Previously this just said material and we felt it necessary to clarify that it's not just material, but it needs to say that applies to exterior building material. Thank you. I appreciate that. It has always confused me. Yes. The next sentence previously said that art as defined in the zoning ordinance does not require BAR approval. We in the zoning ordinance does not require a B.R. approval. We check the zoning ordinance and the zoning ordinance has a definition for public art. So we felt necessary to match the zoning ordinance whenever possible. And we also wanted to add a little note here that public art does require B.R. approval if it involves the painting of unpainted masonry. So we don't want people to get confused that they can just do an art project if it involves painting masonry. I greatly appreciate that clarity. The next thing under that list, we added that window. Wait, can I add something? Yes. Because we've talked a lot about painting versus I'm not sure if it's a lot of paint. I'm not sure if it's a lot of paint. I'm not sure if it's a lot of paint. I'm not sure if it's a lot of paint. I'm not sure if it's a lot of paint. I'm not sure if it's a lot of paint. or comprehensive and say painting, staining or a lime washing. There you go. Or just like the application of any permanent alterations to unpainted masonry. Unfortunately, the paint is not a permanent thing, so. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe we noodle through that a little bit, you guys do, because you could stain unpainted masonry by the letter of that rule. Yeah, I think do's why we're doing this. Because you could stain unpainted masonry by the letter of that rule. Yeah. I think. Do we want to just add kind of the way it's written the guidelines to list all of them. It is one option. We've recently adopted masonry guidelines. We could take the language from that table that says what requires board approval. And just put that here. If that's what the word would like to go with. I guess could you bring us in example? I don't remember exactly what that statement is, but I believe it says in the table about requires approval in the mystery chapter. It says that any painting staining or lime washing of unpainted mystery requires board approval. If you're comfortable with us matching the language, we can match that work for you and adopt it. Okay. Okay. Thank to be able to do that. We're going to be able to do that. We're going to be able to do that. We're going to be able to do that. We're going to be able to do that. We're going to be able to do that. We're going to be able to do that. We're going to be able to do that. We're going to be able to do that. We're going to be So that's why we added it here as something that does not require VR approval. So moving down further, I believe the only other change that we are proposing here is in the roofing section. So this last bullet point, this is related to a case that came before the board, I believe at the last hearing. It currently says that original wood shingle roofs that had been replaced with standing seam metal in the past can be replaced with standing seam metal or wood shingles. The case that was brought before the board and was approved on the consent calendar involved a common situation that we see in the historic district where a property that may have originally had a wood shingle roof was replaced with a composition shingle roof at some point in the 20th century. approved many such cases we felt that that would be a good situation where staff could approve that. So if a property had a wood roof originally and then at some point had a single roof that that single roof can be replaced with a stating seam metal roof. I believe that's those are all the changes that we're proposing for the admin policies. Just to play devil's advocate, but I don't think anyone would do this. Could they put a wood shingle roof back? Yeah, you can put the wood shingle back. It was, it was a weird little gap in the language we felt like. Where the Miss Tandy Sea Medal is, it's an improvement over, over architectural shingles and it was more historic. But yeah, you could do which shingles as well. Yes. That says right there actually now that I'm reading it again. Yeah. But we thought this was just a, you know, it's an improvement, you know, going from going from our architectural shingles to medal is more historic and appropriate. are architectural signals to metal is more historically appropriate. Can I just ask why we've singled out? Can you put a metal or wood to the surface? Can I just ask why we've singled out, seen metal or wood shingles and not other materials like slate or tile or anything else? Because this is typically when we see this definition, the historic buildings of the type of things, it would either be wood shingles or metal roof, and that would be what the historic buildings, the type of things, it would either be witchingles or metal roof. And that would be what we found on all the maps and things. So these are the two options that it would be. OK. It would just seem to be smart to limit it to those two things. OK. Slate does take on a different look to it. Slate is much more formal look to it. If you're going, like on a fairly vernacular type of house, you would have a metal roof, like a slate would be maybe too high style for that sort of thing. So this sort of seemed to be compatible with the architecture. And if someone wanted to do something different, they could always just bring it to the floor. Right, exactly, exactly. And I think we do have a public speaker on this, Mr. Chair. Yes, I do have one speaker form. The speaker is Gail Rothrock Believe representing the Old Town Civic Association Just okay just yourself Welcome, thank you That was a good discussion. I think a Gail Rothrock two and nine Duke Street a good discussion of that concept review So these all look very good and as usual, Brandon's on a great job. I had one suggestion which is I see door hardware disappearing all the time. I don't know how you can monitor that or would want to or but I just don't like to see it under no B.A. or approval. Beautiful old brass knobs, round poles go overnight and people put in a more secure I suppose without without the box locks and they put in a handle. And so if there was a way that it could not, it would not be listed under no approval, I would like to recommend that. But my larger issue is the, on page two, I think very important is the sentence in number two, in Roman numeral two. Any proposal to remove historic material that staff believes can be reasonably repaired and preserved will not be approved administratively. And that is such an important point. And we citizens have been suffering over the last year or so with historic doors being administratively approved for replacement. And I don't know what to suggest on that. I know the staff has a lot of experience in competency, but I guess I would feel better if any historic door, the photographs and the staff report could come to the BAR because we're seeing these beautiful doors being removed and sometimes they're replaced and kind, but the question is, do they really, really need it? Because the older wood is usually a stronger and better material. So I'm not sure, I don't have any wording suggestion, but I just, that I think, and maybe emphasizing in the very first sentence of the B.A.A.A. or process, putting that sentence in bold as well. The primary purpose of the BAI are as to preserve historic material, which in many cases can be retained and repaired rather than replaced. I mean, that's the most important philosophical statement you have here. So to emphasize that would be my suggestion. And then I would, I frankly would like to see, and I know it's a larger discussion than just tonight, removing the ability of staff to administratively approve replacing historic doors and windows. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Conkey, question for you. Mr. Conkey, are these doors that are being replaced? Do they fall into the category of less than 25 square feet? Is that, is that why it's, is that one? No, it's because it's a, it's, no, it's under the, it's, it's, it's a, it's to our reasonably repairable question. It's, um, is staff looks at them? If, if we get an application for administrative approval to replace a door, staff goes out, looks at it, says it cannot be reasonably repaired or it needs to be repaired beyond whatever that criteria is, then we can approve it administratively if it meets these guidelines. So it's not, it not doesn't have to do with the demolition. It gets to that reasonably repairable question. Yeah. I was going to say, Ms. Rotherock, that's exactly the issue we're having with these windows over on Gibbon Street. So I think you've hit on the absolutely salient issue, which is what is reasonably repairable. We don't have a working definition of that right now. So I think whenever we get that definition, whenever we settle on, this is what is reasonably repairable, we might have a more specific guideline then for our staff to say yes, we can approve this because it is beyond repair or no, we can't. But right now, we just don't have a good way of, no, a system for deciding. So I think it's gonna come up once we get this definition and then we should revisit it. I think one other thing is that how to prevent people letting them go to this door that they're using every day, for example, or windows, how to prevent it from going to the stage that you can't repair it even anymore. Maybe for the historic houses, I don't know, it's not with us, but I don't know if you have any sort of protection or they have to register their houses or the houses should be registered so that whoever owns it, they are responsible for keeping it up. Now, there's a property maintenance group in transportation environmental services. Environmental services, no, I'm sorry. There ain't code enforcement. Code enforcement has a property maintenance division. And they're the ones who, if you don't cut your grass, are the ones who come and yell at you. It's difficult to get someone who's not scraping their windows to fall into that category. And we don't really have the authority to do so. I'm wondering who has the authority or. There's something. It's kind of the closest thing we have to is property maintenance. And that's the ones that are, and they do. And I have seen them go when someone has, the paint is peeling on their side or something. They'll come and write a ticket and say, go fix it. I go, I got one on my old house for some brick that fell off my, off my stupor. Well, I thought that. Well, I think that because we live in historic all-town, there should be some sort of historic preservation that is actually preserving these houses. I think we may have one thing rooted to that. There's the concept of demolition by NGLE. Right. I believe the BAR does have pervy over that. So if a property owner lets a historic feature deteriorate to the point where it can't be repaired due to NGLE acting the maintenance of it, I believe that is considered a demolition and that's some BAR violation, not just a code violation. At that point it's too late. It's demolition at that point it's too late. It's too late. Estimulation at that point. Your threshold? Unfortunately, like in US, I don't know that the only tool the city has is the issue of citation for failure to maintain your property. And then if you don't, over time, the city can condemn your property, but then it's beyond, if you're getting condomation. But point is to repair it, yeah, to help you to deserve this historic challenge. I don't think we can do that. We can't do that as a body, and I'm not even sure the city could do that. As an ordinance. Yeah, the property maintenance really is the closest thing. And they do it. It's just, you know, it's part of the code enforcement. Yeah, good enforcement is really the way to go. Yeah, and You know, obviously they have quite a big job. And looking for peeling paint is not super high in their list. Very low on their list of things to do. Sometimes each of ways can do that. Yeah. But there are many in old times. There's not. Especially for older buildings. Yeah, it's a, it's a, not agreed. I mean, I, it would be nice if we could. Is there a fine if you let your, if you. Property maintenance does carry fines. Yeah. Again, I've... I got... I got to know to my door one day, not that long ago, old house. The old house or the... Yeah, right. I think the sadder reality is that a lot of times these things don't come to the forefront until someone wants to sell the property. Yeah. And they have to go back, log, and clean up all the things before they can sell it. And that's usually when one say it gets resolved, but that's when the fine gets paid. And I mean, they have to remove, they have to remove paint off the brick. They'll do that then. They just wait until they have no other choice but to do it. It was very true. And we, you know, we have our list of outstanding violations. And we keep behind the, keep an eye on Zelo. This is the idea. It's easier to enforce when someone needs to sell it. Yeah. Unfortunately, that is our enforcement arm right there. Miss Zandia. What you'd like to do, is Miss Zandia. Just to walk around O-Town. Yeah. I had to come on this. I was going to talk hardware. I was going to talk hardware. Yeah, go ahead. I'm kind of, I understand the hardware issue and I'm kind of looking at it both ways because I also see a whole bunch of the hardware with the cameras on it. Rings. And those are, the rings are popping up all over the place. And so I'm not a big fan. I mean, I don't perceive on one, because I just don't like the look of them, but I don't know if we can regulate that. And it's going to be very hard to regulate that. Well, I guess it wasn't suggesting doorbells. That's interesting. But that's part of door hardware in my mind. I know what you're saying. Knockers and so forth. Yeah, those are, I mean, the beautiful knockers. I I do have one comment on that about the door hardware from Mr. Othraak. As you know, we have design guidelines committee meetings which you have attended. We will be reviewing the doors chapter probably sometime this fall. And you're welcome to attend that meeting. So things like that details like what details of doors would require approval. We will be looking at all of those things. So would we write that chapter? So I'm sure that will come up at that meeting. Yeah, and maybe it could be added that there'd be some pictures of beautiful Gordinops and lock boxes and things. So the public would appreciate them more maybe. Okay, anyway, typically we've gotten Door hardware is one of those things where there's like knockers and things are decorative and not all, they're functional but not super functional. Any more. Right. You know, I mean, it's hard, modern era to have locks and things that are maybe not as robust as you'd like. And then there's accessibility issues with knobs and things. So it's a complicated discussion. I agree we should try to keep it the best we can. I think it's one of those places where modern reality hits old buildings and you have factors to consider there. And where I was going also is that I know some neighbors, some of my neighbors have put in the electronic locks. You just put the keypad in, which is not in any way historic of any kind, but it's a modern convenience that people are moving towards. And that ties back to my door knocker ringer thing. So I mean, it all kind of works together with that there's technology pushing some of this stuff forward. And some of it we can't resist, because it is going to move forward. But it's something we should discuss as a design committee. Definitely. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate all your feedback, Gil. So how are we feeling about these admin policy changes? I don't like your power grab, Mr. Conkey. I'm just looking for a motion maybe in a second and a vote. So we'll move on to the next topic. From the feedback I've heard so far, it sounds like... It sounds like the board mostly agrees with the changes and would like to add the language about the painting masonry from the design guidelines. Correct. May I have a motion, please? I'm motion to approve the changes with the Masonry Coding Edition. Is there a second? Second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. I thought you were jumping in the say no. I was supposed to say no. All right. What's next, Mr. Conkey? Gas meters. Gas meters. Yep. And I'm going to ask Mr. Harris to read this one mostly because I can't see it far. And then I will give a brief explanation on this one because this one is kind of one of those things where we have, again, I think we have the modern world intervening. For the B.A.R. gas meter policy, this one is pretty recent, adopted less than two years ago. So we've been using these different types for administrative approval. Staff has used these graphics for type 1, 2, 3, and 4 for different residential properties to determine which locations we can approve administratively a gas meter. Recently we've gotten some applications to install gas meters in different locations on commercial properties and we've realized that the graphics and types that we have on this page don't really fit with commercial properties. So we're proposing additional language here that only residential properties will have to comply with one of the types shown on this page, and that for commercial properties where the gas meter cannot be safely located inside the building, B.A.R. staff can administratively approve the installation of the gas meter, wherever it is least conspicuous. Just a little background on this, we've gotten, this is a very rare occurrence. Most commercial buildings, okay, So if it's new construction, new construction building, commercial building, these gas meters are going to be located behind screening. You know, they're going to be next to the generator, next to the air handling unit, something like that. It'll be screened. If it's the new construction, it'll be that. If it's an older building, it will maybe probably already have it, and it'll be that. If it's an older building, it will maybe probably already have it and it'll be inside the building someplace. We have had a couple of occasions recently where there have been older buildings that do not have a gas mirror currently for whatever reason. Need one, Washington gas will not install a gas meter in the interior building anymore, and a commercial building. So safety reason, they just won't do it. So we're left with very little choice of someplace to put it. A good example of this is Tenduk Street. This is the warehouse this being rebuilt right now. They need a new gas meter. They were going to put it inside. They can't. That building has a sidewalk on one side, streets on the other three sides. It has to go someplace. So we would like to think this is one of those places where I think the policy has been written towards residential construction. And this is just one of those weird gaps. It's not happened very often, but I think staff would like to have the ability to use our judgment to locate them when we have to have one Located as as discreetly as possible Does Alexandria city have any plans to face out gas? I know Arlington is doing it. I mean, it's I think eventually it wouldn't and but there's you know There's it's gonna be a long time between now and then and there's a lot of gas is useful a lot of things so You know, I can't, we need gas meters. I guess my own, yeah. Yeah, yeah. The green building policy doesn't vision that? Yes. OK. So my thought on this is that it's not clear that you're talking about existing commercial properties. You just say commercial properties on here. Well, I understand if a new one comes through it should be incorporated in the design and theory, but I'm just thinking of worst case scenario. I mean, you could edit this and say on an existing commercial property. And existing commercial properties where the gas meter may not be safe located inside the building. Yeah, I think that last one little word in there makes a difference. And that way when a large project comes to us, it wants to put it on the front door, we can say no, you have to integrate it. Yeah, it's these weird one-off buildings. There's not that many of them, but it does happen. It's for both residential and commercial that they wanted to be outside, like everywhere. Yes, the Washington gases basically said they they will no longer install them on the interior buildings. Happy buildings gonna have it on the outside. Yeah, it's just um which that's similar with to they've done in DC anyway. I mean yeah kind of make it I mean it's not a week made out on projects. I don't know you need a little out course for them to hide them and then screen it. So I mean in new construction yeah it can absolutely be nominated. Just in construction. Just because it's this weird one-off where we've got some buildings here in there where we don't have. Which we have a lot of weird one-off no-downs. All town's kind of one weird one-off. Just rename it weird one-off town. So this device chair does you have some thoughts about your buttons and jumps? You have to wake up at 4.30 a.m. So I'm good with this. Would you like to turn it into a motion sir? I moved to approve it with our chairs suggested modification. Is there a second? Second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. You're posted. Aye. Nay. Aye. Tavit. What else is next? All right. This one will go through quickly. I promise. Brendan has been working on our roofing guidelines. You guys adopted these. We've had a couple of minor changes and they just want to go through that super quick. Okay, for the roofing chapter, many of these minor changes that we've made just moving some things around are just based on some other chapters that were recently adopted. So like the location of where we talk about certain things, just to be consistent. So there's really no new information that we added. It's just shifting the format a little bit. So talking about in the introduction, when different types of roof materials were used, that was in the additional information section, we dismooted to the introduction because every other chapter that we've adopted does that. On the first page, this is really the most significant thing for the board to know. When we adopted this chapter, it originally said that the repair or replacement of roofing material over 100 square feet in area requires staff review. Staff believes that that was intended to say 25 square feet. So if the board agrees, we'd like to make that change. I believe that was the original intent. And that was really just a typo. And then under the guideline section, this is again just to align with some other chapters. We did have it separated here between early buildings and late buildings basically saying that under early buildings, you left original or existing buildings. And then under the guideline section, this is again just to align with some other chapters. We did have it separated here between early buildings and late buildings basically saying that under early buildings you have to original or existing roofing has to be preserved and repaired whenever possible. But that is a guideline that applies to all buildings, not just early buildings. So even if there's a later building it might have a historic roof that should be preserved. So just because it's a later building doesn't mean you can automatically replace it. So that's why we took out the early and late distinction and just said that if roofing is original or historic, it should generally be preserved if possible. I would like to weigh in on this, because we are angling for trouble because whenever possible is a different standard than reasonably repairable And so my suggestion would be to a lot if we're gonna come over the definition of reasonably repairable We should use that when we can so my suggestion would be to end the sentence after paired repaired original or existing roofing Which has acquired historic importance over time should be preserved and repaired period. And then you could say when staff determines that original roofing is not reasonably repairable, et cetera. Because otherwise this is a different standard and then we're gonna have this debate over what is possible. Good point. Great, that makes sense, thank you. the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of the process of I believe that is all for this chapter. May I have a motion, Mr. Vice Chair? I move to approve this with the modification that I just suggested. Adhering to the reasonably repairable standard that will be determined at some point. Is there a second? Second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? A nay dyes have it, Mr. Conkey, what's next? At some point. Is there a second? Second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. You post a nay to aye's, have it, Mr. Conkey, what's next? That is all I have. It seems to be evening. See you guys in September. Have a great August. And the design guidelines committee is meeting on Thursday. Thank you. Anything else from anyone else? Get the wrap up over there. Let you. Right. Anything else from anyone else? Get the wrap up over there. That's a journey. Come on.