It is a record. I'm going to call last year. Why to all planning board meeting order? Because some will call the planning board meeting to work and stand and recess until completion of the city council meeting. Okay. Very soon. We'll actually stay in the session. Stay in the session? I'll be in the department. Okay. A couple of very quick housekeeping. Everybody turn the name and play around please. So we can read it. A lot of people are in the way not going to do it. So, this is the question that Mr. Cooper talked about. This is speaking. Also, if you will, later on, even if you will say a prayer for the two deputies that were shot to Saturday, most of you may or may not have heard, but there were two, two men of can't share their deputies to stop the shot this afternoon. What a big bit of traffic stop I believe. Some sort of traffic situation. And one is in... My happiness in one is in Chapel Hill, though there lived multiple gunshot rooms. And that's really about all we know, other than one was Chris Goe and the other was Slapkin. They were both conscious, lastly heard, and that's pretty serious. That's the kind of stuff we always think about what happened here, always happened somewhere else. So, when you get them in,. Say a little prayer for those families. At this time, I'll call on the planning of the zoning staff to give us an overview and start the discussion. to advertise with, we're making five likes due for everybody, so some of you are not right in front of one, so if you have comments to add to the meeting, please speak louder. Otherwise, they will not pick up a call and then she needs to transcribe it. And this will be placed on the website. Later on, it's not that much more important. Speak clearly in these lines. They are not for amplification, you much more important. Speaks are like a need for my, are not for amplification, really. If you're recording and if you're not a pro and you will have to speak up. Thank you Mayor. I see Townman coming through the door as we speak. So, I was giving them any idea. I'm going to do it by the time I will. Thank you. Well, thank you, Mayor. Good evening. In this year's short session of the General Assembly, there were several bills that were introduced related to land use regulation. A few of them became law. We do think it's wise to update the council and the planning board on pertinent bills so that you may be well informed of the general assembly's activities and to decide whether any existing policies or ordinances need to be reviewed. At your place is it may see around the room here, the table over here as well. I have to give you maps. All the maps that will be in the presentation are in, I'll let my 17 packets, if you want to look at them in greater detail. How are we going over them in the presentation you'll see? I'm going to begin the presentation by briefly summarizing what I think are relevant bills, and then we can move into more detailed discussion on how we believe the city may be affected by those bills, either the ones that pass or what we anticipate may be future legislative actions. My summary of the bill begins with House bills and it's arranged based on your medical order. A lot of these I'm going to go over quickly, especially if they were not ratified. House bill 281 did pass the state house and would have figured out a House-elect committee to study eliminating extraterritorial jurisdiction when county-wide zoning is in effect and to allow residents of the ETGA area to run for municipal office and vote in elections for municipal office. The bill, like I said, was not passed by the Senate. It passed a house, but I think at this point a good idea to have a little refresher on ETJ and what extraterrestrial oil jurisdiction is, especially since there was a bill introduced that would have completely eliminated it from the state when county zoning was in place. North Carolina law grants municipal authorities authority to regulate development for the limited distance beyond the boundaries. With the county's approval and provided certain criteria are met, municipalities with between 10,000 and 25,000 people, such as Ashboro, can extend the regulatory authority up to two miles beyond the corporate limits. The original intent of the ETJ was to help cities plan for developing areas and they require municipal services in the future by applying consistent guidelines for development. And I think it's important to remember that time ETJ was proposed by the legislature, which was in the 50s, there were very few counties that were regulating land use. And the General Assembly recognized that cities have an interest in how urban fringe areas develop. Such under the law, the ETJ is an area that must be based on existing or projected urban development and areas of critical concern to the city as evidenced by officially adopted plan. In essence, it's an area that you expect to grow into in the short-term area. Forts in area that you've identified through your planning processes is an area of very strategic importance where you want to have some decision making authority on land use and development that occurs in those areas for any number of reasons. ETA areas that are not a part of the city's corporate limits, property owners do not pay city property taxes, generally they don't receive city services and they don't participate in city elections. The residents of ETA area are able to serve on the planning board and board of adjustment and in fact city ordinances and state laws require such representation on the planning board. Under the state law it's a proportional requirement. Under the city code we actually set aside half of our board membership to the GTJ members. So five seats are retained. Residents are living in Corpus Limits and five or four folks are living in the GTJ area. Ashboro's ETJ extends up to two miles from the contiguous city limits in certain areas. The last large scale revision of the city's ETJ boundary was in 1987. The city first applied ETJ authority in the 19th and 17th. This map shows you are existing city limits in green and our E.T.J. area in Redleafs, then the Oregon J.A. area in red. The area beyond that is our county zone and subdivision controls. And you all have that map up for them. And again, that is the first map in the series of maps at your back. Think folks are probably pretty familiar if you haven't seen it on a big scale. This is what it looks like, but you think back to our zoning reports of the off-consuming of the first thing that we report as well, is that the city will emit a DJ from a land and it's perfect, it doesn't have a difference. But for policy, we need to make it. difference. But for policy reasons. We returned to the bill so you're real quick. I did want to give you some of the activities that took place in the legislature. It was a house bill that required low government's temporary family health care structures as per my personal accessory structures provided their principal residence on property and so bill that would have preempted the city zoning regulations dealing with accessory volunteers limited application essentially you could and or any zoning district bring in a small portable living quarters for a family member there's emergency type situation in the city under zoning code could, well, you don't have enough land area, that doesn't meet our Zonico farm for an accessory dwelling. This bill passed a house and made it out of the committee in the Senate, with the favor of recommendation did not ultimately pass, but this is something that a lot of folks are looking at to kind of address an aging population and some land use restrictions that may be impeding folks taking care of family members. So this would be like a camper or something? I know it is under the bill as written it was actually we have to meet the state building code. So it was out of camper but it is a kind of a, think of it more of a modular, as a construction where we prefabricated rod inside, assembled on the side. So it's modular and transported. Now it didn't pass, it's no action we have to take, but it made one of those things that made come back up. House bill 925, which did pass both chambers. I think probably everybody's rooms aware of this law, it became session law 2012, 11, changed the state's annexation procedures. The law now refires resident approval, the air in order for a city to annex property using the statutory annexation provisions, often that's what people refer to as forced annexation with the city, the asks of certain criteria met, could initiate annexation on its own accord. Now that must be put to vote, the rest of the referendum is the per-after city adoption of a resolution of intent, a majority of the votes that are cast in that referendum must be for annexation in order for the city to move forward with that process. And only registered voters of the proposed annexation area are allowed to vote. So all the bills we're probably talked about this evening. This is probably one of the greatest effect on how the city will grow and under what mechanism is in the future. House bill 1043, as introduced, would have prohibited any future extension of city, e.g. jurisdiction into areas already subject to counting zoning laws. This is a bill that did make it far, didn't pass the house or the senate. The keep of minds was all done in a short session. So things that actually have been become law move pretty quickly, things that even made it out of their chamber, move relatively quickly as well. I mean, this is another bill related to E.T.J. that the general assembly took up. And so obviously I think it's an issue on the minds of the state legislators and it's probably continuing to be so. It's interesting to note that this said in the private future extension of ETJ, if already subject to county zoning laws. Well, under the existing statute, you have to have county approval anyway to proceed. So this is even becoming more aggressive in limiting how the city's main employee ETJ. There's only two bills in the Senate. I think we're worth the mentioning, it was Senate Bill 380, which would have exempted farming from zoning laws for properties located within the city's ETJ jurisdiction. This bill did not pass the House, it did pass the Senate. And it's a bill that while the city permits agricultural uses throughout our city limits throughout our empty jail, we do have zoning standards. There are certain requirements you have to meet to engage in agricultural operations. This bill would have exempted such uses for rolls-only required. It's not just, you know, mandate that you permit them subject to standards, you would be exempted from zoning standards. It's very similar to how folks are familiar with modified farm laws under a county, enable legislation which exempts agricultural operations from zoning in the county. This would similarly move that over to a city. Zoning control. the city. Zoom in. Control. The last one I'll just touch on here is Senate Bill 731. Kind of unrelated to everything else we've been talking about, but it would have limited the application of architectural design standards outside of your typical buildings to the requirements to residential structures with five or more units under the bill, building material requirements, roof pitch, getting into the, let a building looks like for less than five dwelling units, townhouses, you know, twin homes would not have been allowed under the state, the state would have prompted any and laws at the local level. The bill passed a sudden and just didn't get passed by the haps. You know, say there's a lot. I think if you look at the overall theme, what's been happening? There's definitely a, I think a sense that there's been, maybe too much over aggressive zoning lane use controls at the local level. It says counter-bound. I think it's control at the level level. That says counter-bounds, I think that's occurring at the state level too, to address some of those issues. I don't think they speak so much. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Just a recap, and I've already said that the session laws have changed the annexation for seizures. That's going to be the one that has most significant effect on city, how we can grow in the future. I think it's an important just to remember that under this law, large scale city initiatives and annexations of urbanizing areas or areas on the fringe of the city limits that may have a long or more of our utilities. They're going to be more costly to undertake. You'll have to go through a referendum. And by going through that referendum, they're going to become more unpredictable. There's a lot of work and effort time that needs to go into the evaluating an area under the stash to weigh annexation provisions. So under that bill, it's going to be more costly and less predicted. And I think it's this bill combined with the legislature's interest in examining the statutes related to extraterritorial jurisdiction that makes us think that now might be an appropriate time to evaluate the city's current extraterritorial jurisdiction, boundary, and determinants that today it's in the city's best interest in legislative changes that may have occurred since the adoption of that ETA in the 80s. What's been occurring at the state level and lay development that's occurred on the ground here in Ashboro. Before I get going into more detailed review on the maps and your packets, I do want to take the time to thank Drew, Fierranelli. He's a city's GIS specialist who is responsible for all these maps that you see on the wall in the presentation. He's been a great assistant since I've had the findings that he's had and he's teaching the numerous versions of these maps that have come out. I told you, I've worked with a lot of GIS people in my life. They're usually either really good or they're really fast, but they're rarely to get something that are good and fast and put things together. And he's got that unique capability. Again, I'll just start showing the existing jurisdictional boundaries that they could see today. Just put it in the turn green, gray area red. I think it's important for everybody to remember the city of forces, the city code, zoning, subdivision, building, fire codes, and the green area. So if there's a code out there that's mandated and we've been adopted by the county, we enforce it in the green area. Randolph County enforces building and fire codes, which includes issue permits performing inspections in the red area. In both of those areas, the red and the green, the city makes a final decision related to rezoning, special use permits, granted, subdivision approvals. So from a code administration registration standpoint, there is some difference between the green and red. From a land use of authority and a decision making control of what occurs out in your environment the city gets to do both in the green and the red air. I think the question before is is that the appropriate boundary for the city to retain all that authority? I also say this map is helpful in identifying where some some holes maybe the red areas definitely stand out on this map. I think that was a, again that was current GJ boundaries are related to your comprehensive plan. This is a map from the City of Land Development plan to the top of the city of 2000. I will run updates and make this in 2009. But this map, I think, has several areas. I'll But this map is in the box. Several areas, and I'll put them up here on the screen. You have primary growth areas, adjacent to belt areas, secondary growth areas, long range growth areas, resource conservation areas. And just to quickly give you a description of those with the primary growth essentially is where your city limits are and war at the commas map was adopted in 2000. There's the red areas where you have utilities and you have city blocks over the properties. The secondary growth area, which would be these areas right here, this orange area. Our areas with prime access to existing city gravity sewer, interceptor, and or existing or future thoroughfare located outside of, but adjacent to city limits. These are areas that should be given at a moderately high level and encouragement incentives for mid range development in the next five to ten years. Well, we are beyond the five to ten year window at this point with this map and plan being adopted in 2000. You're adjacent areas, which are these? And there, just as the name describes, they are adjacent to your primary growth areas. You'll see them here. Your adjacent adult developed areas were areas that had with a high level of existing urban development located outside of but adjacent to existing city limits. These are areas that should receive careful consideration for annexation and urban services over the next one to five years. So at the time this plan was done, people were really the focus areas to zone in on as main building and current new extended utilities. Those areas I will see NAS to bring in to the city limits. I don't think economic development needs much of the description. I got a good road access. Utilities either throughout or nearby the areas or the ideals of the city was in a command of position to get utilities to those locations. You'll see primarily those out 64 East and the US 220 highway in North. There are a little hard to see where our ETA area is on this map. There is a fine red line to make it up on the map you're looking at. These areas are also within your current ETA now. They are essentially rural fields of land as they're designated by the land of the plant. They are essentially rural land. There doesn't mean blood and land on the planet. No notion of utility going into those areas. At least in the short term and not anticipating to be pulled into the city limits. I think when we talk about the ETA boundaries, the current or any changes we've made on they do, obviously we need to examine existing water and sewer infrastructure. This is a map that shows that infrastructure, water, lawn, sewer lines, home station, forest lanes we've separated out from, from gravity lines. We should be able to pick up if he starts looking closely. The city limits actually have a little darker transparency than the ETA areas. So these kind of Bay areas are in your city limits. And also the proclod of Highway 64 by pass is shown in this map as it is on the other maps with an entertaining cheer and kind of follows up there. You look closely, you can see the border for the bypass, the largest is outside are current extracurricular interstations. The place where we need to start picking it up is near the interchange of the far-blad southeast area of the extracurricular area. Just to give you a sense on where everything is out on the ground, I think that's in the solar form, that you can sit for a special increment, we can talk about it being right on the edge of the area and then that's it right there. I think this map does a good job of getting everybody to spend on what are the land use patterns in the city and also the budget. The map actually depicts on the ground zoning, it's not land use, but in those cases it's going to match pretty closely to what's occurring on the property. The message hasn't been developed yet, so there's not a form of use occurring. Residential districts are generally yellow or orange, or off off of institutional or blue, commercial red, industrial purple. I'm not sure if the areas of the office are teem, especially those in the interior and a lot of that would be in that location there. Now, is the only district in the city for limited residential uses to single family, residential uses all the other districts that allow these two family dwellings or do flexes. The orange, you pick out some of the small, all areas of orange, all your higher denser, multi-family districts that allow multi-family to develop it. And the map also showed us some important overlay districts, including the airport overlay, which you can kind of see here There's a ring, a circle that you can see the radius around the area to the airport is an overlay that's in the city and so building heights are regulated in that area and the county also has a similar designation. Very rarely comes into play usually it's in the case where we have some non-residential development that may want to go in that area. We have to look start looking more closely at tank heights or higher elevations five or six-story structures start to get affected by the airport overlay but it is to preserve the integrity of your airport. There is also on this map you can see Lake Lucas and what I call the Lake Blanche watershed critical area of WCA. This area, immediately around Lake Lucas, the drain to Lake Lucas, my wasn't Lake Blanche. It has high environmental regulations limiting the mouth-filled binary that you can go on in there to help preserve water quality and the drinking supply reservoirs. The blue area is also within that watershed area. It's a general watershed area. Our steel regulation for farms and places that is not as stringent as your watershed critical areas. is on the state mandated rules that affect everybody's water supply. But we did go ahead and show them. And if you were to look at accounting, you would see other things in the water. So the final of this in condition with the map I have shows that I just termed the barbed-out constraints, and then maybe effecting property. I'll use the Floodpoint location, and more details on the WARS plot, WARSHETS. The map includes elevation ranges, so you can find the darker reds on the map, those are high-specifications, green being the lowest elevation, the blue areas on the map are you're regulated 100 year below. Again, I think it's due to the annexation law change and the introduction of new or new, related to regional scope, city, DJ. I think that that's a good time when you look at this issue and some of our actions evaluating your everyday area and whether we're controlling the areas that are either truly gonna become urbanized or worried. But we have a real less interest in seeing how those areas develop for the benefit of the city and its citizens. I think there's a side from that, a side from the change in annexation law and the field that may have been introduced. I think there are several other factors that may make you think this is a good time to do this. The first is that today, unlike at the time of the county adopted V.D.J., the county administrators, countywide land use regulations, they have dedicate to professional staff at the county that does that. And again when the city looked at doing that in the 70s I think it was a real concern that the ladies control one in place to protect the city's interest. Second, the current arrangement in the city and the county has an arrangement that allows it to do permanent inspections outside of our city limits, but in our ETA area, under the statutes, the city has that ability to do that as well, can perform permanent inspections. Or it can reach an agreement with the county to do that. And then we have an array with the county to issue permits and performance inspections. I'll point out that if you're a resident of the ETJ and you're applying for some type of land development permit on your property, you have to come by City Hall first and obtain a zoning clearance permit before you can go to the county and proceed with permitting. And I'll tell you that's news to a lot of people, especially the further out you get from our city limits. It's not rare for both to have no idea that they were in our exterior area needing to apply by our land use laws. I think you can go back in time from a resource management perspective and give the size of our current ETA area. It's unlikely that the city had the resources to perform any permitting inspection in those areas. It's a big area. I think this staff would have been stretched pretty thin to cover all those areas. And I think it was a mutually beneficial arrangement the city had with the county to have that perform those inspections and it's not incumbent to add a arrangement to occur. But I think as we're looking at ETA areas for any number of reasons I think it's maybe time to look at that arrangement as well and see if there's any changes that may be warranted to that. and we've talked about the session of the 2012-11 and the referendum requirement now. But remember, it doesn't change the city's voluntary annexation process. Toads are still able to petition the city for annexation. We can still make that a requirement to receive water and sewer to submit a petition. So you still retain tools to appropriately grow based on where your utilities are making extended. And again those voluntary petitions under the city's process most often occur when property owners are wanting something from the city and that's often utilities or some type of city service. And the last one, especially we may not be aware of this, but we actually have received a petition from some land owners for property located off Green Valley Road, just kind of in the south eastern area of our ETA area. Seeking the city's relinquishment of ETA authority over their property. The land code was probably about 30-35 acres. We've actually talked with them about this pending examination and process that's going on and it would be for that petition to give the city time to see if there's other areas that we may want to look at on the city as a part of their request. But that is received and will be coming to the Plain Board and Council at some point in the future. So if you look at the last map, I think, or one of the last maps, I'm going to be able to bring map, a lot of folks have turned to it already. We did prepare a preliminary that shows how I provide the EGJ powder in mind. Look, I think on your map, it says, proposed to E.J. area. I would call it more potential E.J. area. And we haven't taken any actions to initiate this. I won't take to propose E.J. at this point. But this is what an E.J. may look like if, consider the following factors. One, when we sat down and talked about what they relied on, you might look like, we looked at existing city infrastructure locations, financial viability and extending that infrastructure into the ETAJ area. Oftentimes, where you need to utilities go, where your rail is going to go. And so, you know, I think that makes sense. Where are the utilities going to go. And so, I think that makes sense. Where are the utilities going to go into the future? And in those cases, we retain the DJA for the over there's areas. The second is we thought about strategic corridors and areas that the city may want to retain for economic development purposes and Forward or gateway management Obviously there are some areas that the council has had discussion about Potential those were areas we prepared this draft map we wanted We want you to consider as well. Yes, well Under what circumstances would you be considering proposing this? I would say if it's the will of the council and what we're what we're here this evening to talk about is if you feel that this is something worth pursuing, that if we were to get directions to pursue, that we would set the wheels in motion to do so, remember though that even if you authorize this to be investigated, it does you're not bound by any action. Even if we were to go through the process to advertise or have informal meetings on the topic, you could pull back at any point. So this would be a proposal in lieu of what we currently have, but not yet knowing what to how for senate may agree upon. That's correct. That's correct. I think our point is about to be a good group. It's not a half of a real group. It just to be, to try to go back to the person, now. You look at the city limits. You look at the event jail, now, my fault. That's pretty striking. Can the city grow in all those directions? If you take the pure definition of ETJ and our history of how we have, we'll say reached out. That would be pretty far reaching. I mean, if you just compared the two, I mean, you know kind of here in the rear view mirror and we'll start. I mean, I can get that. Any think about, Trevor talked about it. There's many factors to make it happen. There's ligate, there's rain, I'm sure we're talking about as many factors that we have in that. Look at the terrain, the map. Look at the map and they're all over there on that wall. We're wide to get up and get a closer look. They're not just going to live by 17. You can see them up there in the 48 inches. You'll see that those hill tops and those valleys and those really limit our ability to everything that's gotten us. This flat in Asperer, I guess, something like that was to make it flat. So, as we thought about taking those constraints of the legislative changes and then talking about the economic Carter and have the big waterline bill in the east. Graham, so are the other division. You know, the next couple of three years maybe the county could all the way down to Graham, so that that would be an economic corner. It's trying to manage it and we have some doughnut holes in the city. There's one light out the front door right there. We'll talk about that hill. We'll talk right there. And the real problems with the doughnut, so there's all kinds of problems. Statistically, we've actually run police and fire calls under mutual aid because we've been beside Westside to they have to come to the barter restriction. We've got to actually do some rounds. The other donut homes on the right over here, on the end of the Peachtree Street, around those people don't realize this but you go out, come out of the great bar, take a left and head north and you run out of city limits with two doors. Again, east side, west side, having to come through, find out who's who and all that. And if you're in those little doughnut homes, we don't enforce the city code there. So if your neighbor's or to those dumb and the grass is too big tall, we won't get any brown code enforcement, Brad help, and then we won't enforce the city code outside of the city limits. So you can be completely surrounded by the city. Literally you could be in the city, your next one night will not be denied to the city code. And the counties, the people, the councilmen, have grass, junky debris, junk cars are in their zoning ordinance. Not in their code of ordinance. So those folks are always here to play on that. zoning ordinance, not in their code of ordinance. So those folks are always here to play that. They'll always get kind of put out to us in the county because we important ones that are rules that enforce another. The other thing we want to talk about, and we did that was, what can we really get water and sugar to how we really feel in the next year or so, 18 months of real capital improvement plan to do, just to have a paper to look at. And then the final public policy thing is, and this is just the broadest public policy I have out here, really restraining activism. People in the ATJ came voting municipal elections so they came voting for each of the songs. Well, I'm glad you mentioned that because I would ask this question of Jeff Clark. In the House version, I can't imagine how this could pass Constitution, but then again, I don't. It's a question in my statement. If you left them in the ETA, they were going to be able to vote for this patent and this elections without paying taxes, which is an odd inverse of what potato potato, how you look at it. Now, is there any possible way you think that could remain in there? Because I've got two different opinions of these yellow spots based on the answer. The General Assembly is certainly in the position they can pass any legislation until the court actually rules on it. I can't give you a good answer on that question, depending on the exact wording that you use and how to legislate to restore the lines. So short version is, they can pass it if mayor may not stand, etc., etc., depending on what goes on after that. But it would be law until that test was given past our families. I put in the same categories, one, the annexation statute, the issue got revisited this time around. There was the petition was in there, the courts had to do that when it was challenged. It was not challenged, the courts never going to address it. You got to acknowledge the courts, saw problems and the ways which were when it came back to the general assembly and they addressed those issues. And that... So it could be all that day until addressed. And it didn't slow down that overall these were passed and one house or the other were made into law in a sort of session. So we're going to have to meet things but the budget. So I mean that's... Well look at me like that passed. That'd be just the elimination of ETJP. I think that's our ultimate goal. Well, and we're here one. I think it's important that we take what's happening in the legislature and what our own political, fiscal, and social realities here and try to build some public policy that fits those needs. I do agree with that. I mean, I think in reality the rent's big and the yellows exactly who we kind of are. We handled, you know, the planning board council, we handled lots of cases that aren't in the city limits. Is that really the best in a modern era where the county has had some of them? Is that really the best use of the council of the plan? And I think in some cases they might miss a cifu go, but maybe in some not, you know, that is, but it's not going to be up to us with our full. And for purposes and I'll apologize. I just want to say for purposes of what the General Assembly may or may not do, I think it's also appropriate to keep a minor rule of interpretation, which is asked by the General Assembly, you're going to presume is constitutional unless the courts find otherwise. That's always the presumption you start with. And then again, just to share the other interesting thing is, we don't have this force to build in code and the bar code in the ETJ, but we could. We can't find any formal agreement. Mr. McIntosh agreed to do it with one of the Franks and the county managers. So I think the community development division perspective we would rather have a smaller ETA and force the building code and the fire code in that area. That leads us to a little problem that we have in our last chapter of dressing. We have an enforcement issue and code enforcement issue because we're not prepared to take, always prepared to take the actions that we might need to take to enforce a violation. So, and that's part of the 38-year request to relinquish. So, I'm going to ask Jeff to, and keep in mind that it's a pending action in his description and comment on will be very vague. I think I saw definitely speaking general terms because when you've lot of all to an individual it always is very fact specific and that's something to be worked out in a quiz-adjudicial sense. The Board of Adjustment has heard a case dealing with the land use that occurred in the extraterritorial planning jurisdiction. The Board of Adjustment agreed that the zoning administrator who made the correct interpretation and it would involve the city ultimately if it compliance does not occur, it would involve the city taking enforcement action to bring an end to that illegal land use. Without getting into the specifics of the case, I do think it's appropriate that Mr. Noodle rolled up as one of the reasons to examine the ETJ issue at this point is that petition because the staff does not recommend relinquishing city extraterrestrial planning jurisdiction from city jurisdiction simply because of the request is made. That does not happen on a case by case basis. It has to be in the context of a more comprehensive approach looking at the long term comprehensive plans. That petition to relinquish jurisdiction has been received by the president. It has been received so it will have to be dealt with by the City Council. Is it a donut hover in the external area? It's an external area. Could be carved out and not live on. I would. I will see you, but I believe that's a public area on that particular one. When you get to that issue, because it will be heard, it is on the schedule, it's in the process, to be heard. The General Statutes authorized the Council to exclude areas from its extraterrestrial planning jurisdiction, and I use as one of the examples the statute goes to and says, a council may and it's deserving, as you do from its extraterrestrial jurisdiction, areas lying in another county, that's not an issue here. Area separated from the city, from the city of our barriers to urban growth, or areas whose projected development will have a minimal impact on the city about barriers to urban growth or areas whose projected development will have a minimal impact on the city. So here is authority for the council to relinquish areas within its extraterrestrial planning jurisdiction without giving up the whole thing. But it has to be based on those sorts of comprehensive considerations for the cities, for the impact of the cities, not simply because you dread taking action against a particular individual under their fact pattern, because at that point the question becomes, what's your rational basis, what's the decision making of rational for the city for letting this one person out and not letting others out when they don't want to comply with the zoning ordinance. That's not getting into the mirror, that individual case, but it's the overall concept. So when we see that case, we will be able to tell whether or not it's in this yellow or not. You would have an opportunity. Once that hearing can get very specific over what you're talking about. And there you are. And making that decision opens your door for everybody else. It doesn't want to comply to request, re-length wishing. There they're referred. And quite logically, you bring on a second to say, for C such a petition is that. It makes sense. Well, and this is not making its statement on the merits of the petition for the 30 acres. It may very well be they have a valid point but that point might be valid for other areas within the city's planning jurisdiction. That's a policy question council has to answer and so I think it is appropriate for the staff to raise it in the broader context to get this in the comprehensive plan. What is in vision while the council has received a petition for 30 acres, why not look at the whole area and to see what's the best public policy decision for the council to make all the cities by. And I can add a core area to that. This is there. And use technology. Currently the current lines now cut the property in half. They're just just was a shot taking from the United States is not moving. It's not like stepping out. It's with the Senate. The one with work done in kind of state, based on all the item that have had up there was slide whistle. It follows streets, lot minds. Where we can get water and sewer to we tried to make some the usability of technologies we just didn't draw the fee, circle it all out. Thank you. If I'm right, in fact, we've had the lesson in the past to take some of the power if the UTIJ or the individual basis is based on that very fact, the property has been split or cut to a quarter. And after consulting with the county and the city, they kind of chose which jurisdiction that could further build or work under or arm under whatever the situation was. And then they've asked very specifically to take that rest of that property either in or out. We have done that in the past, so that's the EGJ has changed in those respects, but it's always been advice on something that was split. And that's the issue that's come up in the benham and back. And one thing that you mentioned briefly that would have quick come back to if I could is the correlation between our zoning districts and the counties can be quite different. So the reaction to people in certain areas may be quite different than what we're interested in. I know that I've had this happen to me in another state anyway. Since Rimm was brought that up, just pick a area on here and I bought some land. And I bought this land, thinking I was gonna put up. What's up division? Or an apartment or something like nature on it. We have many zoning districts that have allowable uses by our state of right or that's right or aren't allowed by the code that you don't have to come before either of these boards just walk on in there and see Trevor now and get your permits and go on about your business because it was designated for that area and The county does not and and I'd be pretty upset by about 50 acres I thought I was gonna build 60 houses on and I woke up in the morning and I got to go down there and negotiate to see if I might get five to Yuntweeny whatever They're special you permit application process well. I'll hold and They're special. You permit application process will allow for and no commentary on that I'm just saying it rentals said it first they are very different and And you know you you got you could have some and it vertically in trying to Go along with the popular flood really damaged some property values. Would you? We've got small lots of them. Now he doesn't really get it in that area. We have fluid a lot of manufacturing housing except that those rural fringe areas are 40s. There are instances of different numbers. So the established neighborhoods may be feeling more way the other about. I mean, I'm just throwing that out. and I was maybe feeling more way the other about it. I'm just throwing that out. I mean, I get that this is most likely ever doable so to speak. It'd be nice if we were in fact the red, but it appears that time's coming on for a few decades. And the red and green, particularly for the guest over here, the red and green shows what John was going to say, well I'll go to the big map up there, where we have green and secluded limits that have exceeded the reach of our PTJ, because the ETJ does not move as our secluded limits move. So the chance of us going to the county and saying, can we move our ETJ further out to incorporate a little bit more area in those areas where we're growing? If I have a guess, I'd say that would be very difficult. Oh, and if you move it in, they might not want all of them's own cases either. Well, that's true. But it's worse for them. I don't think they're going to take those own cases I don't teach there. They take this on the case and we don't. We want to get wet. They just could be some unexpected unique results from as all of us unfolds. Because it's clear something's going on. I think that leads into one of the questions kind of coming to my mind. Let's say the city decides to seed some of the red area because I mean the county automatically moves in. And zones in? Or what? The federal justice area. These are all good, good questions. There's our little later presentation. Sorry, we can definitely hit a map. Thanks for that question. It's really pretty good. At the effect of day, if and when the city would really wish, the county had 60 days under the state law to apply zoning to those effective properties. So the county will in fact have to take action to zone lanes previously and zone by the city, if and when the city decides to be the city. If anyone in the city decides to be prepared to live with half to do something. First you said they have 60 days of order for zoning. Zoning is not automatically kept going. Coming to. We're just going with the statue. When a city remincuses jurisdiction on an area that it is regulating under the article to a county, the city regulations and powers of enforcement shall remain in effect until one, the county has adopted this regulation or a period of 60 days has a lot as a last following action on which the city relinquished jurisdiction whichever is sooner. And during that time period the county may hold hearings and take the other measures that may be required in order to adopt this regulations for the area. So Trevor's absolutely correct. It's going to be the city regulations continue for up to 60 days that the county adopts zoning regulations before that lapses the county's regulations take effect. If the county chose to leave an area on its own they certainly could do that. We had no indication that they would, but that would be their prerogative they did not want to impose anything. Arguably, they could adopt some more zoning things and it's only just like it is mine. They have that authority. They will conduct hearings and conduct their own, apply their zoning during that window of opportunity. That other thing I was going to mention about this, it does not address everything brought up by Mr. Malfon as far as those are to be instances where you don't have a vested right. But the statute does deal with those situations where there isn't a right, especially the rights that whenever a city or county is sent to this section of the general statute, acquires jurisdiction over territory that there before has been subject to the jurisdiction of another local government. Any person who has acquired vested rights under a permit certificate or other evidence of compliance issued by the local government's surrendering jurisdiction may exercise those rights as if no change of jurisdiction had occurred. So if someone's come in and gotten a permit and they could give you something like that from the city, that's not going to be true of government or anything. That doesn't cover every situation you talk about because they might not have come in ever to open the city to get the best of right. But then we'll make sure we cover that. They need to get them sub-division plan. They usually follow the trail of spending money. Right. Best of course. All right, it's the bottom line. So, take a follow-up or question for me. Let the trail remove on forward and maybe we'll get back to it. And just to point the one that brought up, I think that's part of what has been told to the general assembly is that from, in certain land development, permanent requests, it's amateurs to the general assembly is that from, in certain land development, permanent requests, its amantages to the developers you can be able to submit a lot of properties in the ETJ area to know, certainly what the regulations that they're gonna be developing are prior to annexing the property and be something to add to our taxes on the property. And then, so that's also what, part of the cons I think that has been presented and some of the pros of the ETJ area are. You all have covered a lot of what I have to wrap up with here. We've done our, this is just a draft, it's a potential plan. It certainly could be improved upon. I would ask that just like you have, you can be sure that we retain land use decision making it the ordinary, that we've been going forward to help and safety of the city and citizens. We've talked a little bit about the process, but actually a men's and a DJ from that, just so we know that it does require a notice to give them to effective landowners, avocosments in the paper, public hearing to be held, and a new map to be reported in the public registry. So folks know whether they're in or out. We talked about ways to handle that, certainly there would be information on the website on channel eight, things of that nature. And in the case, again, what the city worked to effectively relinquish the TK to county and initiate an initiate zoning to establish county zoning on the properties, that will include ensuring that there's appropriate overlays, watershed overlay, the airport overlay, or are also applied. And I'll just reiterate that, it's come up, but while the county has zoning districts, and a lot of zoning districts have comparable cities, they're all comparable to some green. Those are different orders. County zoning orders, different sub-industrial orders are different. We have more geared towards herbage development and regulation versus rural development regulation. And so if there were to be a change, I would anticipate that there would be differences in how we developed and how it was regulated, assuming we're under accounting and authority and jurisdiction because for no other reason, those will get started. I'm just going to say that the council, again this is what I was looking for, I'm going to say that the council could change zoning ordinance, the Dr. Land use plan, change in the ETJ and there's those people have no say whatsoever. I mean they can get it, the voice of the planet will be, they don't get the flow, which is something that I think it would just like to try to address in there too. So I just think that that's a driver too. I do think when we come back in January there'll be another slew of annexation and ETJ land use bills It be bills about Municipal finance and just remind you Each of you that asperers on the list and one of the few cities that the sales tax was in 30 some where when we saw the best last week 30 some cities in North Carolina and counties that the sales tax didn't exceed the old inventory tax where every manufacturer community that expires this year the fiscal year we just started that reimbursement of the state expires this year. The business here we just started, that reimbursement of the state expires this year. So we'll be down there in January trying to get that extended. It's a pretty good junk, I think it's $200,000, $50,000 plus from my last dollars for Ashboro. A full 50% of that money and 50% of those cities and counties are in the P1. Where's the manufacturer for the state? So but that means that our allies in the west and the east won't be interested in All that will come into play I think we want to be I don't want to gloss over what we're going to do ever to show us that the city and Canada as well as the other who's history, we just have a project about counting out real good real good real good relationship with each other because that I mean, you can work in any problem out and so if the county city changes the PTAJ, and obviously I don't think we can manage the panel as we have to, it's currently mapped under war ordinance. It will be returned to Nozo. They have someone they can do in that, or how does the city counting 35 years. So, and then quite frankly we have more of each, J in the other city around the world. And, uh, Arstale have a mile, we have two months. So that is a lot of area and we have a lot of cases and a lot of zone permits and a lot of people who come that the plan board of counsel never see because they can't get a good woman. There's no recourse within a lot of times. In an urban setting, in a under an urban policy document, the land use plan is urban in nature when they're themselves and they're too much from water and sewer, too much from that. That's why I believe. One of the concerns that I've discussed this with John several times, several times with the ADN is the nuisance part. We have some homes that literally their driveway is sitting next to a house that is burned down and the grass is up above the windows and all the trash is laying out there and it's been like that for a year. And there's nothing that we can do about it. And there's really the way it's written with the county. They don't do that part. So I really like for us to focus in and work on that, because the ETJ is that driveway, that person's driveway. And the thing I always think about is, how would you like it to be your mother that was living in that house, that's sitting behind the house, this burnt? and there's nothing that can be done about it. Call on Jeff to address that. It's an excellent point, and I will tell you that indicative of what everybody has alluded to Trevor and Mr. Oggburn, we are very fortunate and have been good working relationship with the county, and we have had some discussions amongst the different code enforcement officials about how everyone would feel more secure about who is exercising what authority in the extraterritorial planning jurisdiction to get formal resolutions between the county commissioners and the city council who's doing what? Now, nuisance abated with the councilor of the police power, that's one thing, but minimum housing enforcement and unsafe structures, building inspections, the city under the general stashings has the authority to conduct those inspections out in the extraterritorial planning area. So one of the things that would be discussed, which is why we most definitely are earnestly seeking the guidance of you as the ultimate policy makers for the city. Once there is a definition of redefining of the ETA, so choose to do that. The city is very interested, the city staff is very interested in discussing with the county and with your blessings. The idea that city inspectors take over, whatever is remaining of that extraterrestrial planning jurisdiction, city inspectors take over in whatever is remaining of that extrateratorial planning jurisdiction City inspectors take over the entirety of fire prevention and building inspections Inside the remaining ETJ and then whatever is relinquished obviously that's completely under County jurisdiction and control that would try to define and eliminate if not all some of these issues That would be a different matter that we'd try to define and eliminate, if not all, some of these issues, nothing's that we want to do. And then, click on colors. That would be a different matter. That's certainly the reason. We had the reason I asked it years ago, right after I got on council, I was in a junk car in the city of London, and the city was trying to do something about it and they dragged it across the street. Side the city of London image and we couldn't do anything about it. But we will continue to work with them on my life. I'll can or we don't have an answer for that particular question at this point. But the inspections for buildings that we can with your guidance get to a resolution of the Work County Formal arrangement. To quote Jeff said. That means that that's how much meat. It's with an abundance of caution that we would venture off into enforcing codes on people that can't vote for us. That'll really be pointless. I was saying if you're going to do building and fire inspections in the ETAJ, does that mean the fire department will respond? First. No, no. It's building inspection authority. That's how it comes under the planning land use regulations. Okay. There's a sub-asset. It never been. That would be a statutory authority. Where is the fire department right now? to authority where as far as the cars are right now just a territory mutual assistance we continue to go from what we do outside the progress that's about all I have I think somebody brought up the question you know why are we here if the the general assembly may be taking this back up? But it may all be a move point. John said, our views is good to be proactive to demonstrate that we are interested in evaluating our current policies to make sure they're in line with our interests and the state's interests. There have been jurisdictions where there have been bills that pass both chambers to do away with ETA just for that jurisdiction. It passed the state, but boom for instance, I don't know what the disposition was, but they were real close and not completely losing all their ETA and I think it benefits us to be able to say we're being very proactive to make sure that we're up to date on where we need to be. Jeff said it wasn't good to me. People are all in that view. There's penalties in general as impediments and no problem solvers. In our case we can be proactive, we can really make an informed approach to this ahead of whatever may happen in our own. And ultimately, have better control, better authority, and a lot better working relationship with our community. And I do think that brings up another point is that if I'm changing roles by the county and advising the county commissioners it would be a lot easier for me to say Ashburts, Sraycanary, TJ, one of the inspections in just these certain areas where they intend to grow, and we need to amend our ordinance to make that work. Not so somebody they don't have any control over. The Larry Trotter goes out 1.9999 miles and makes a putting inspection of the house. So I think, like I said, getting out of the county manager, I would reckon we had a sure, we'd be able to build a better mouse track, build a better public policy for both city and county residents and we, much of this nishroom, but. building a better public policy for public city and county residents. We, like this, this is where the public. You know, I've worked in place in Virginia and on in Maryland. And, and excitation is not, not prominent at all. I mean, for instance, the city of Norfolk, New Orleans, 150 miles out and see it later. And they've got tax districts for public safety and then a separate for ambulance and a separate for garbage collection. And all these are agencies, just like say your sheriff's department is an agency or Eastside Fire Department. And they get like eight or nine tax bills to make what we consider just a basic service package and the lines do not run their ever which way and This may not be the best time you know, whatever this is boy that's chaotic That was something else to ever unravel who we were working for or we were at You'll see like wall retreats and the inner bridge or the transfer stations right there and our ball goes right there and the house with the r-age right there is not to see limits. It's just a doughnut home. The bite knows why. Exactly. I mean, it's just a bunch of intradanxation conditions. Please, you know, we're going out there anyway. They'll, you know, so I mean, just there's all kinds of, there's some highlight areas that we need to focus on. Just to close up. I said the most probably. We have. I like. And ultimately, you know, with the current annexation climate changes to the laws, we say it's taken away our authority at Annex, but we go back to our city services, our assets, the water and sewer, as to where we have. And technically, we are currently doing it. And they're very judicious with the opportunities that we have to extend that. Then this city will continue to grow. Part of our difficult right now, dealing with the areas that have the water, for whatever reasons, you know, water policy that has really hurt us. But as this community grows, as the central North Carolina goes, the city can continue to grow if we are proactive with those extensions. So it's not a dead male or anything we will look after those resources. I've said I've been quoted saying he who has water leans 20 years from now will be in good shape because we have the water in sort of capacity. because we have the water in sort of capacity. There are two other things that are going to play into the new physiatry district. It's not right in that policy. There will be, after this, very shortly, in the completion of 3-11 tie-in, or the tail, that's no reason. I think we used to term with, in the past, we were talking about our interchange on 2-20 or 7-30-74, by the time we, the valuable resources. That interchange is all pretty cool. If we have that something that we would never just build, we have to say about all these models, but create that economic development, the land development plan, and that is all that we have to put out our service to bring. Did any of you have any notice the article about the roundabout Jessica Day in the paper? If you read closely, you notice in the district engineer was quoted as saying 311 Project was behind because they went back and did their estimations, their projections, and found out that their projections were lower and decided to be from the asphalt. They put different grades of asphalt down and they've been tracking the projections. Yeah, that's what I'm saying there. They're car counts and they built that highway on work under. Under. So now they've decided that it's going to carry way more cars than they thought. That's why I've produced behind it. That's what I got out of the article. That's what the article says. That's what the article says. That's something that I'm saying. It sounded like a DOT. Well, there's more complicated than that in the types of soil. But anyways, it was one of the types of soil. The normal way is the form of a county. It's before the M.C It was one of the And that's, I mean, they've underestimated the colors by their own image, but what you would consider in trust in the traffic. Okay, please take traffic. In terms of traffic, there's a big part of that under the customization. So I'm good at what is the round of the creation of the industry. And they have big note of perhaps I read. I did prepare, and like John said, said we did quickly identify some holes that are interact on the bell binaries at least for the land development plan existing holes where we have water frances but no sewer but we're encircling in the city when it says our areas we would anticipate to come into city at some point and therefore it makes sense to retain. We were sensitive to cord or managing down as we far away in Fayetteville Street so that our guys are inspecting the inside of Fayetteville Street and the other side of Fayetteville Street so we have uniformity and codes, kind of generally, for our downwind direction. We talked about that in the forward. So we're kind of, we're going to be able to do our forward with an offset of interest and that's going to be a, you know, that might generate for the city that interest in how we're pretty not developed as well. 64, you'll notice we're not proposing much to our station out there. We don't envision utilities getting out there And so our and one of our big themes was where the government served in the short-term We don't have I have some blow-ups of these maps. They're in the presentation. I think many of these interested have probably been a lot more beneficial to take a look at them on a tree scale here in this scene, what we may have where, as far as the infrastructure. But I think what we're asking for tonight is for you for direction on how to proceed. If you think we should move forward and prepare the necessary notice and app documents, we'd inform the visitor this matter then that would be an appropriate direction to give us. And we can do so. That's the end of my presentation. And you're probably going to do. Oh, they have the questions for staff for trailer, Jeff, or the staff, regarding what we heard tonight. Trevor, thank you very much. I appreciate the hard work you guys put into this. I think you all know we're trying to be proactive. We've got an opportunity here that they make life simpler for everybody. In the long run, like we had our best option. We don't need an action, but we would like consensus as anybody who can counsel their bill has serious issues directing the staff to at least take this to the next step in their planning and research. And when they get to the process of making a serious recommendation here, they'll have the lines drawn in the public hearings and people affected will be able to see these parcels. As at a minimum, say John and Richard, maybe Jeff and Amy, sat down and talked about this, is any real possibility. I can say from the legal department, so we try not to get ahead of the policy makers. We have had general discussions, and there's been no negative pushback in very generalized discussions at the legal side of the first of the Mr. Agron. I'm going to say that the D.C.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A talking about it. You guys, what would we communicate in this week? As an illustrative example, there's one specific enforcement action that has not been discussed here all the night, where there actually has been discussion between the county and the city, legal and farm owned. Are we getting closer to a resolution that we were all waiting and happy to see what the policy decision was for the governor and the body? I mean, I'm saying there's some minor additions or something that I might would just sort of talk about but I'm sort of maybe about something that I like. Small stuff. And that leads us to the process. If you see any area that you'd like to take, pay particular attention to staff as always about, give us a y''all sit down with them on the map, show them what you're thinking about, talk to them about their feelings, Clark? Well, I was just saying to the extent we've got the tenor with legislature, legislative actions, like it may, to say that the math, as it currently is, just is not really workable in terms of the first time areas are early on and whatnot. I think certainly my opinion will in the world going forward at least exploring the possibility of not having it a more amenable way. Okay, the early comment. We have permission just to make sure everyone feels comfortable because I know your main concern is getting public input. Trevor, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but with your general consent, the consensus to move forward with the formal proceedings The community development division will identify each of the parcels that would be in the area to be proposed for Relinquishment and city of extraditorial planning jurisdiction and each of those parcel owners would receive no Individualized written notification of that in ten instead of restate In addition to the new state grants and there will be every opportunity for people to give you the input I know that you see before you make a the plan board. Thank you. Council thanks for being here. I will. And there. A adjourn. Well, adjourn your meeting. Uh, research. Do we continue our regular visits on the meeting? No, it would be. Given the average house must be preferable for the planning board to adjourn the special meeting and then reconfig be later. You're right. There are no objections. I'm planning more stands in adjourn. And they say council meeting stands adjourn. Thank you very much. In my later name, my final name. Yeah. I'm planning for an instant date. Yes, sir. Dr. Norris, please open the red. I'm sorry. We'll hear some chair comments. We'll talk.