Thank you mayor for recording. All right with that I'd like to call this meeting of the John Screex A council to order this Tuesday March 28th at 7 o' 9 p.m Next item. Thank you at this time. I'll call roll. Please councilmember Tunky Councilmember Skinner your councilmember air malle present councilmember Kaufman present councilmember D. B. O. C. Here Councilmember Ellen here. Thank you D. Biasi. Here. Council Member Ellen. Here. Thank you. We have a quorum. Fantastic. Next item. Thank you. Mayor this evening we have some junior girl scouts from troop 18215 that are here to lead us in the pledge. So girls if you'll come forward. Fantastic. The flag is right on the back wall. Here. The flag is right on the back wall. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Excellent, good job. Thank you. Thank you. Next up. Thank you. It's time for opening remarks. Thank you, sir. So good evening. I hope that if you heard about daffodils, I hope that you got a chance to get out there on Saturday and enjoy the pretty weather and all the vendors and many things that there were to do was a great event. I really appreciate all the groups that did give back actions and I think that we've got a slide on those that did that. But I want to give a special call out to John's Creek beautification and Audrey Mill Nature Preserve as community groups for which they did a special part on the day of the event. The John's Creek beautification donated a mural, a really great mural of some daffodils that they've gifted to the city and hoping that we can display that here in City Hall. And as you're seeing those pictures, I want to remind you of an upcoming event, the Easter Bunny Hop. That is a free, fun-filled interactive walk around North Pond, which is just this pond right here behind City Hall at Creekside Park. There'll be vendors, a DJ of course, and the Easter Bunny. That's going to be Friday, April 7th from 430 to 730 PM. And I'd like to talk just a little bit about a special day that's coming up tomorrow, Vietnam Memorial Day. 50 years have passed since the final American military forces left Vietnam, and our remaining prisoners of war were returned. Even after the passage of five decades we still owe these veterans a large debt of gratitude. And so on Wednesday, tomorrow, at noon, at the wall that heals a new town part, the Atlanta Vietnam Veterans Business Association and the John's Creek Veterans Association are hosting a Vietnam Veterans Day ceremony and invite you all to go and participate and remember in that occasion. With that, we'll get on to the city's business. Thank you Mayor. The next item is the minutes. You have consideration to approve the March 14, 2023 work session summary and council meeting minutes. Councilor, have you got a chance to look at the minutes? And if so do you have any motions? I move to approve the meeting minutes as presented. Thank you, councilmember Elwood, is there a second? I'll second it. Thank you, councilmember Earmellie, for the second. Is there a discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor? And pass the 7-0. Next item. Thank you. The next item is approval of our meeting agenda. Okay. Council, would you like to make a motion? I move we pass the meeting agenda as presented Mayor. Thank you. Councilmember Calfan, is there a second? Second. Thank you. Councilmember D. Biasi for the second. Is there a discussion? Seeing none, all those in favour? That's a 70. Thank you. Next item. Thank you. The next item is our consent agenda. We have a few items for me to read into the record. It's Resolution 2023-03-09. This is consideration to approve a resolution to amend the Stormrunner Utility Credit Manual to add a credit for large pervious parcels. So we have an action item consideration to approve a task order with WK Dixon and they amount of $144,180 for an engineering, a town center stream restoration and trail. This will be connecting Creekside Park to Megan S. Ferry Road along the John's Creek Territory. An action item to approve a contract with size more group in the amount of $154,100 for a violation plan for a Medlock Bridge Road, at State Bridge Road area. We have an action item to approve a budget policy amendment to reflect timeline of the presentation to the council for the 60 days prior to the start of the fiscal year. And finally an action item to approve a policy to formal and existing practice of providing bike racks at city buildings. All right, thank you, Madam Clerk. That's the consent agenda. Are there any motions? I'll make a motion to approve consent agenda as presented. All right. Thank you, Council Member DiBiasi. Second. And thank you, Mayor Pro Tem, for the second. Is there a discussion? Seeing none, all is in favor. And I'm passing unanimously. Next item. Thank you, Mayor. This evening we have nothing under presentations, which brings us to public comment. Okay. Sir, I know in wishing to give the public comment. Okay. Seeing none. Next. Good. Thank you, Mayor. The next item is reports. The first item is the annual Consolidated Financial Report for fiscal year 2022. And we have Director Campbell for presentation. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and members of the council. So the FY22 audit has been completed by our independent external auditors. While we do have an audit finding, finding within the area of accounting and internal control systems that could be improved, I will note that the annual comprehensive financial report does contain an unmodified opinion as referenced in the auditor's opinion letter. Our response to this finding has been documented as part of the process and our internal control procedures have already been revised to address this issue. With our end of the year surplus, we allocated 1.1 million toward the military stabilization fund, and used an additional $1 million towards prepayment of the GTIB loan principle. The remaining amount of the FY22 surplus was allocated according to budget policy. The audit presents an unassigned fund balance for the general fund to link about 32 million as found on page 14 of the financial report. I remind you within this amount we do account for the military stabilization, the three month reserve requirement, as well as our cash flow stabilization requirement. Any excess above and beyond those three is then used to fund council priorities that arise outside of the normal budget development process. I'll conclude by saying that overall the city of Johns Creek remains in a strong financial position and has demonstrated by the external audit of our finances that our financial statements are presented fairly and accurately. I do have Adam Freyley, who is a managing partner with Maulden Jenkins in the audience, as well as Cheryl Johnson, our controller, if you have questions either of myself or them. Thank you, Director. Questions? Dr. Campbell, thank you for inviting intro and I agree with your memo that we are in a strong financial position. Some of the report out of the, I believe it's page 20 on the, let's see the AD&A report that talked about the storm water issue. Is that more just because that fund was somewhat new? And because from my perspective, it still seems correct, but was that just an accounting issue? Like, can you explain on that if it's? Sure, it was an accounting issue from the standpoint of the measurement of the revenue that would be attributed to the current fiscal year FY22 as well as the allowance for doubtful accounts and the third piece doubtful counts the accounts receivable and then the unearned revenue and it all originated because we changed the timing of the stormwater building and staff had not reflected that in the documents that were used for FY22. So when I said that we've documented our response and changed our internal procedure. We've documented as a part of our year in close, kind of like a checklist to verify that there's been no changes with the timing of the stormwater building. If there are no changes with the timing, then you go ahead and complete it as you've done or calculate those three measurement points as you've done in the past. So this issue henceforth is not well. Well, not the initial. Yes. Gotcha. Thank you. So let's see, on page 12 of the report here, we're looking at honors discussion of the ADA and A. There's a graph here that shows expenditures as well as a fund balance. And the fund balance is increasing pretty significantly. And at some point in 23, it potentially may cross the expenditures. And based on what we saw last year, at the end of the year, there was an $11 million surplus that we had to address. Do you anticipate with the additional time that we have today looking at budgets and trending that we can better project that 11 million to go down and when do you anticipate the fund balance surpassing the expenditures here on that graph? Is there any extrapolation on that possibly? So, two thoughts. I do believe the changing of the timing of the changing of when the budget is submitted for the upcoming year. Does allow us additional time to do a more accurate forecasting of revenues. So that additional three months will allow us to be, I believe, a little bit sharper in our revenue forecast. And at the same time, then we can program if there are available dollars with that revenue program that at the time of the budget development process, as opposed to later on in the process which we have done in the last two years kind of as a part of the end of the budget development process as opposed to later on in the process, which we have done in the last two years kind of as a part of the end of the year projection. So that would kind of deal with the surplus that's created. As far as then the expenditure trends, this $40 million, this does reflect, again, this is a combination of the general fund. And so it's the general fund expenditures, but then remember general fund covers not only operations, but it also provides for our infrastructure, maintenance, a cruel, all of our three accrual funds is captured in that. As well as then any investments that we do in capital. So if we have significant revenues that we can do additional investments in capital, that's going to be reflected in that dollar amount as well. I believe that's how that graph is working. Gotcha. In your opinion, as we go forward here with the budget process, last year, we kept the military the same as a prior year. There was a lot of conversations on whether we needed to, because of the property tax values going up and a property tax revenues coming in that we should have potentially have reduced the milligrate to be revenue neutral based on the property tax. In your opinion as we stand here talking this evening, do you believe that we're going to be in that same position as we go further? I don't have information to speak on where the military may be when we go into that military setting process right now. I do have information as far as what our capital needs are. So I can say that as we bring forward the FY24 budget, we're presenting to you an FY24 budget, but then we're also providing you a refreshed five year capital projection. Included in that capital projection will be part of what the council just adopted, I believe in the last meeting, which was the capital plan for the park implementation. So there are lots of things that will be brought to the table to shape the discussion as we get ready to approach the military setting process. So we're a little premature right now, yes sir. Thank you Ronnie, very much. This premature right now, yes sir. Thank you Ronnie very much. This is very nice, thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? I just wanted to thank you director Campbell for answering my questions and spending time with me today and just to tell you congratulations on the, because you told me the importance of the unmodified audit report. So thank you very much. Thank you. I just have one question. So whenever I see the graphs from 2016 to 2018, I think of the whole property tax assessment fiasco. And it looks like we go up and down. Is there, I know that's based on when we receive the funds and when we expend it, but is there a way we can look at that maybe offline on what it would have been in those years? Like so, looking on page. In the statistical section? Yeah. Or, well, page 10 on the AD and the general fund revenues expenditures and transfers. It just looks so wild from 2016 to 2018, but that was due to the mismanagement of the assessment issue. And so we were delayed on a lot of the funds. And then you also had the automatic homestead exemption. Yeah, so it looks like we weren't you know, budgeting correctly from 2016 to 2018, but it's also difficult to start developing trends based on that data from going eight years past. Could maybe direct Campbell if we can talk offline on how we actually use those years. Because I was trying to look at that for the middle of the discussion last year and I just kind of, through 2016 through 2018 out just because of the way. Sure. I will say that that did come up in conversation with Councilmember Skinner earlier this afternoon as well. And we were referencing the statistical section page 61 and 62 of the audited financials or the Acra, I can't even say that. The annual consolidated financial report as opposed to the CAFRA, which was much easier to say. So what I will do is have a conversation with the auditors, maybe there's a way for us to footnote that. And. And do it in a asterisk, I agree, to kind of level that out as opposed to explaining it year over year until it phases out. Yeah, perfect. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Amber. Thank you. I know. Because once we shot in the period, we might be more closer to the actual, because the variance from the budget it will actually is pretty. Yes. Actually because the variance from the budget it actually is pretty Yes, pretty big in the last few years. So I'm hoping that's gonna narrow down and we're pretty close Yes, and those couple of questions on the Interest rates and other stuff look the way I was looking at it like there was a huge jump in there So I understand one time revenue one time rich. Yes, so thank you for that running. Thank you There are no other questions director Campbell., thank you. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Madam Clerk, next item. Thank you. The next item is the Manager's monthly report. We have a manager. It's more for presentation. Good evening, Mayor. Council, you have the month of report ahead of you. I'm sorry, not ahead of you, in front of you. A couple items I'd like to discuss outside of the report for now. One is our courts, John's Creek's courts. So some of you may or may not know, we used to have a stop program. Earlier this year, our courts came up with the driver risk intervention in vehicle education program known as drive. It's a pretrial diversion program for driver 17 and under that received a violation. They've met with our judge, one of our judges and our solicitors and it's a condition of probation. They've agreed to voluntarily enter this program. Online course that we offer for free, they can complete the course as a condition of their probation. The case can be adjudicated. This past month of the loan, and the reason I want to talk about it is like at 55 cases go to that court with a 53 completion on it. Your date, they've had 138 drivers with a 90% completion rate. So, stop by the lack of better terms, stop pre-COVID and some conditions that changed on us with higher court, truel and on us. But they came back with the drive program. So I just want to highlight that because I thought it was a good, again, shows us continuing and weighted to divert and work with them and create safe driver habits and education and show them the consequences of poor decisions early on. So just thought that was a good thing to take a few minutes and recognize them for their work, conduction with staff and with our solicitor and with our judge. Glad to see that get rebranded and reused. Second thing to take a few minutes to talk about is the Pay and Compensation Study that you guys had authorized several months ago, unfortunately. But happy to report as it stands right now, we've received the third revision back from our company that we hired to do it, met with our HR team earlier this week. I got the third revision Thursday morning, I believe it was, had a chance to look at it over the weekend. So glad that we're that I think we're're finally there because what it really does on this third revision is identify what we started out to do was address that entry level recruitment and retention issue across the board. What it also did, trans-sensing into this role, we had a practice of on the administrative side of combining a lot of job descriptions in a certain payroll pay classifications, which condensed a lot of issues. We had people working in certain pay grades that there was nothing in common about what they did for the city. Aside from police and fire, they stayed pretty consistent across the years. The last thing we did, as you know, we haven't done a paid comp study since the city's inception back in 2007. So we had a pretty good compression issue going on across the ranges too. We had a step one through step 10 program. So part of the problem we ran into over the years was bringing in experienced people and not so much sometimes giving them a pay increase but trying to match where they at in their organization so they didn't lose anything coming to John's Creek. So that meant somebody in my past as a police chief was bringing in somebody to step six, step seven maybe, so they only had a couple years to work here before they topped out. They hit 10 and they're matched out. So one of the things I charged this group was to come back in, so we've looked at it and we're expanding it from step one through step 15, right? So it gives a wider scope for those people to come in based on experience, but what it also does is if we hire somebody, and I'll use the police department for example, come around the academy at step one. And there's somebody in offshore that chooses to stay as an offshore. Well, that gives them a 15 year pay scale to go out with. Now, if they get promoted to a different pay scale or they go somewhere else, obviously they jump into a different pay scale. But we added five years to that, which I think was a significant gain in this program. So glad to see that get worked out in there as well. And I think it's important to go back. I know we've talked about it a couple times. I've talked about some employees. So this was not a percentage increase across the board. That would have been very easy to do it. 3% across the board, done, right? Not much different than an American increase we did. But this was a market analysis to look at where the employees were in the current organization, where employees were going to come in, where we were going to attract that, what we were going to pay them. So it was a market analysis. So it was spread out across the organization. So yes, somebody in the organization may get, for example, 1.5% based on where they're at in the organization, time and grade, where they came in, experience level. Somebody else in a different position, different set of experience, they get a larger increase. Based on where we're at because we compare ourselves to who we're competing at. North Fulton communities, surrounding counties is where we have the niche where we're the studies want. So we weren't interested in competing with somebody in South Georgia. This was where we were competing where we have officers either leave our organization go to or come to us. So it allowed us to expand that much more. So my plan is to take it, look at it, and implement it into a two phase process. First and foremost, to look at the entry level to what I call the mid-management mid-range if you do, because those are the two people in the organization that were blow market. So my thought is I'm going to move forward with that phase first, right? And that's really the larger scale of the employee base anyways. And the second phase to come back to look at senior management to your department head level. Smaller portion. And I believe that that will assess and address the key issues that we are looking at as far as being the compete. And I can do that two phase. And it falls in with the overall discretion I have within my authority to address the budget up or down one way or the other. And the phase in approach will also allow me on the second phase to look at we are in vacancies within the overall scope of the budget and departments to address any overages that we may have. So that's my thought for due to 2-pronged approach to it as well. So in discussion, preliminary discussions with staff, obviously the finance, Ronnich team, has the brunt of the implementation part because it's a manual entry on each and every person to match up with payroll, benefits, contributions. That's the real brunt work to it, right? But it's also on the front side of that with HR and the respective department heads to minimize any communications issues to sit down with each employee and tell them where they landed with your market, how it affected them, when it's going to affect them. So again, you're looking roughly four to six weeks for that all to you, paying out because on the payroll side We don't do it on a payroll schedule. We do it on an off payroll time. So Now we're getting down to the implementation phase which I'd met long overdue, but it was very crucially get this correct And not rush through it and the other thing as you heard Ronny say is we start to upload the 24 budget. I want to make sure that these numbers are reflective as we wrap up 23. But we have to have the ability to put those in and project the 24 budget out so that we know what we're impacting with the 24 budget so that you guys know what you have in the 24 budget is reflective of this paying comp study moving forward. So long answer to say we're there, we're getting ready to move it forward. So happy to address any comments, questions, concerns? I have a question for you, C. Manager, Densmore. So with the stock program versus drive, what was the, I love both of them. Right, right. It's not removing accountability or responsibility, but we're also not saddling young people with convictions for the rest of their lives to have to deal with developing in career and things like that. So, love those programs. What was the difference between stop and drive? Because I don't understand why stop was addressed by the higher courts. Could you just explain that? So stop was more than just driver, right? We addressed any misdemeanor arrests that fell within the city scope, right? Which also we focused on juveniles as well within that. And I don't remember the city court case that came back, but when the judges came back, I said, hey, we're running into a problem with our adjudication of these at our level through stop on a diversion program that is running knock-insistant with what the state says. So we had to dial that back. So drive is good, but it is specifically aimed at drivers. So hopefully we can look at revisiting that sometime down the road because it was great because you know I put my kids through the style program. It's a good program. I had this. It was great. Yeah, I had a question about this same pretrial rivalry or diversion. You also mentioned that there's an online course. It's an online course that they take. Is it a defensive driving course or something like that? No, it runs you through bad choices that you make, there's constant places I'm doing it. So it's an online course that they take, but it doesn't deal the questions, do deal with defensive driving, right? What to look for, how to do it, but it's not what I would determine to be defensive driving or cat meek, it's more of strategy. Okay. So is that something we can think of proactively if this kid or an adult who's done this before like the insurance companies reward you for doing defense? So there is. Yeah. So stop had that part of a new drive has had part of it too that you can show that you went through a defensive driving course on that part of it. It's a state administered cohort. It's not a John's Creek administered test or course. So that means nobody in the citizen can just log into the books city would say down? No. It's specifically aimed for those drivers that are coming before the judge or court on a violation. And they're agreeing to this as a term or their probation. So a diversion program. I've got a question for you as a manager, see manager. The compensation plan that is, which is before you today, is it taking consideration the next four, five years as far as escalations? Yes, sir. So that was, and thank you for reminding me of that point. So our past step program did not account for that. So when somebody got a merit increase or a bonus or anything that may have put them in there, they weren't always in the next category. Got you, right? It fell between. So one of my requests back on this was when you create this new step plan, included is somebody moves up to the different steps that it is inclusive of a merit or coal increase. So it really reflects if somebody's in a step two, that they are in a step two and not a step 1.5, which we had that. So that also led to the wage compression issues, right? Especially when you took somebody, not to complicate, but it was in a step six as a police officer, right? But then got promoted to a corporal. And then went somewhere else in the step. So the average city bonus or increase with a promotion was 5%, but it may not have put you in a true step at the next level. In the category, which is competitive for that level? Yes. So we created more issues for us as people moved around it up. You ran into people who were in a step. Do you believe that this new plan, putting this forth, could help that? Because right now in your February report, you have 17 vacancies after reporting. A lot of these vacancies because of compensation, you just can't bring them in and you believe this will help. Yeah, so it's twofold. Another great question, thank you. So it's entry level positions on somebody who has no experience. Right, that we're going to send to a police or fire academy. Like chief cages hired for last week that are slated to get out of the fire academy, right? So therefore, the also challenge was it's begin as a former chief. If I'm hiring you from another department, say five years experience, I had nowhere to really pitch you into the pay scale, right, to make you competitive to what was going on. I was kind of forcing you into a certain step and you've made the day you walked in here, you've been, been maxed out, right? So if you're looking at it, it is coming here and joining the organization, do I really want to go here and sure they're going to pay me what I was making or maybe a little bit less, but I maxed out as he was out walking the door. So that is a consideration to bring somebody up here. So we've expanded that out as well to give the chief a little bit more discretion to bring somebody into the organization at a midpoint or less than a midpoint. Sure. Still be competitive in that pay issue. So when we talked just before Council meeting here, just for the benefit of everyone else here on the Dias, I asked you a question. What that delta difference of where we are today and implementing the compensation plan, where do you believe some of those dollars can come from? And will we be neutral based on other things? And I thought your answer was great, and I think everyone should hear that. Yes, sir. So we've identified funds already set aside for it, right? But as you and I talked earlier, as we continue to go through this fiscal year, as you mentioned too, we're carrying vacancies in the organizations right now, citywide. So those are reductions in the overall pay as we go. So at the end of the day or the end of the fiscal year, like we will wrap those into this pay increase, which was why my recommendation, my plan is to be forward in that two phase approach, right? We address the bigger issue first, and then we clean up the second one shortly thereafter to allow for that extra funding to come in and address that part of it. Thank you. Yeah. So. That's a quick question. Absolutely. What's the timeline? When can the employees actually see the benefits? So it's going to be at least four to six weeks because to minimize that, it really is I addressed earlier. It falls on finance to actually, because unfortunately, all those changes have to be manually entered into the payroll process, right? But before that's even done, I want to make sure that we have an employee action form that spells out, fame, where you're at, market, and then that person actually knows what the impact to them personally is. Rather than just doing it and sending out a blanket email and saying basically here it is, figure it out or meet with us later. So I want to be more proactive on the front side of it to minimize miscommunication, let them understand. So it takes a little bit more time, but I think it's the better process. 46 weeks. Okay. Thank you. So Ed, because this was communicated to the employees that we thought would be done, December or January earlier before now. Have you thought anything about potentially doing a kind of retroactive, like taking it back a step or two time was for the pay increases. Well, no sir, I haven't just because that's going to increase the overall salary impact of the city. And once you start, like it sounds like it's the simpler past, but you can complicate it more to say what happens then and somebody who had their merit increase two months ago. Right? So it was based on the past one and now we go back 30 days, but then somebody says, well, what about 60 days? So I think we get into a rather slippery slip and we go back. I don't know how to go out there draw this and move it forward. Yeah, so I mean we started back in July and you and I have talked about this so many different times. I was like, why can't we get this going faster? Sure, I think unfortunately it's just been a little bit bigger or more complicated because we haven't done one like this before. Yes, it's so not to make any crystal ball predictions or anything, but I think that, you know, 10 years from now, like, who's ever up here. We should be implementing and looking at an additional pay and comp study at that point to avoid where we're at today because the the banding issue, things that we had people tied into certain pay classifications, like in the market, they either no longer existed, or it was a completely different job, which really complicated some of that right now. And you got a person performing a job that as far as the market does, has been re-branded, re-tooled, it's a completely different pay structure. And we were in that position, neck deep. So we put ourselves in that spot, which unfortunately, I don't think any of us really realized it when we push the go button on it. Yeah, I think it's important for the taxpayers when they're learning about this, that they understand two things. One, we really have not had this kind of an exhaustive in-depth, top to bottom review, like this is. The other thing is it was partly precipitated by the police department, because we went through a of time where the police in general were being scapegoated, a high degree of negativity and really disrespect towards that profession. I mean, can you touch on just a little bit of like what posture that put the city in relation to our neighbors? Sure. So there's really a couple of toppings on that. So I actually have to go back to when we started, the city and started the police department, right? So we did, at that point in time, we did not start anybody at an entry level position. Every person to include me, when I came over here is what I inferred to is the original group. We came in matched at what we had experienced level somewhere else. So the day I walked in here is the police chief and John Creeke was equal to the agency that I left. And we did that from top to bottom with police and fire. So we really did an original marketing house when we first started the city of police empire. We brought everybody in at an experienced level. I walked in here 15 years experience, that's what you paid me for. But we had to do that because we had to start an agency from scratch with experienced people. Hence go down the road, we got away from that. We kind of rested on our previous pay to address those issues, which was fine when everything was relatively smooth, if you will. We hit a big wall that you alluded to on everything, right? Civil disturbance, COVID. I mean, everything you can imagine, we threw into about a your time frame. Emerged out of it. But unfortunately we were a little bit behind the curve and the rest of the city is jumping up there and saying, hey, you know what, we're going to do a pay and comp site, we're going to do a market analysis, we're going to get forward. We didn't jump on that bad wagon as soon as we should up. So what happened was everybody we were kind of competing with and not so much an officer from John's Creek to an officer someone, so, but somebody he was looking to get in the profession, right? Looking at another agency that had done a market analysis and like, it adjusted their pay as well. If I'm a brand new officer or firefighter, I can go to agency X and make $15,000, well, $10,000 more as an entry level, or I can go to agency B and make less. Well, where's a 22 year old person gonna go? They're gonna go to agency A that's paying them 15 grand more that they don't like and eventually they'll leave. That's where we put ourselves behind a curveball. So that is what we, council, when I proposed several months ago, you agreed, it was like, let's shore us up, bring us to market level across the board with everybody. And the other point is, this doesn't put us at the top of the pyramid. It puts us close to the top, but not the top agency. I do want to explain your philosophy behind that. So along on the pay, somebody else is going to say, hey, hold my note bad. They're going to go back and adjust it up. That 15% variance is always going to be there. Even when we started the city back then, John Creeke, you know, we weren't really the highest paid then. We were just offering extreme hiring incentives for people to come on with the experience, which this allows us to get back to you to a certain extent. We offered high pay, but also very good environment, great culture, great training. So pay is always a incentive, right? But I will always argue that culture, which to include training and resources, is just as important because that addresses your retention issue as well. So do that mean that we demand less from them or the same as other cities? Never demand less. Expect more. But they won't to provide for it. Okay. I just want to set the context for my question. Atlanta lost about 400 plus offices out of a 2200 APD. So that put a lot of strain on the other neighboring cities, especially North Fulton, Buckhead and all that. Did they also do this pay study? Because if they've done, as as he said to reply to his question you said we are right on the top so I'm wondering are the rest of the our neighbors yet to catch up to us or fortunately we're catching up to that as far as it gives to pay. The attacks on the, if I may interject, absolutely. The attacks on the, at least in the police profession, I think it caused a real problem in terms of recruitment and retention. And likewise, you would expect that to cause a huge price increase to man on salaries. And so all of us now are competing in a little bit of a bidding. Oh, it's idle. Extremely, you know, over my time in the profession, it ebbs and flows between people wanting to get into law enforcement public safety in general and then it does it. But I have never seen it at this level where you have agencies with so many openings across the board, across the nation. Like, it's not unique to John Street in the North Fulton area. It is across the nation. I mean, I get articles on it every day. And not so much. I mean, I'm talking more about police, but fireside of it right behind it, which is actually even more unusual. But the fireside is running parallel to the police department, side of it, right behind it, which is actually even more unusual. But the fireside is running parallel to the police department probably, you know, first time in years. Interesting. So all departments are running short of staff? Yes, sir. I mean, all police departments in the North Fulton area. Yes, sir. Did you want to go ahead? No, basically I don't have any questions, but thank you. Three minutes for the reports. Appreciate that. I just said just for my knowledge here. If our department is funded 100% properly and we train people 100% and as we go forward over a period of time, which I think we're there, John's Creek as a city is probably pretty safe. So would our city have any added value to work here versus working, let's just say, self-fuldened. And is that, I would think it's a selling point? It is absolutely because I get back to it. Is pay critical? Yes. But pay's not everything, right? You can go work somewhere and be the highest paid. But if you're working conditions in your support is zero, people are going to vote with their feet, right? And I'm making more, but I'm going to go work somewhere else competently, but I'm going to get proper support training and resources. So, you know, John's Creek is always enjoyed a good reputation for a place that supports officers both in training, funding to build that culture, right? Which is really when you look at the, what's, because if I'm gonna look at, I'm looking at what is the retention issue, you know, organizations outside of people retiring, right, maximum out, 30, 35 years, and they're just retiring. But do you have a retention issue where people add that, because it's really the sweet spot, three to five years of somebody in an organization, if they're gonna leave, they're going to leave within that window. After that, you're too vested in the organization either in your position or experience level. But that three to five window, that's when people are going to leave. But to your point, if you're addressing those issues, then you lose less. Is that monetized at all? Meaning that working in Johns Creek, everything being equal is a better work in environment, safer environment than somewhere else is that monetized at all with any savings. Savings I would argue that it goes back to the retention issue because if an officer leaves here shortly after, hiring and field training, right? So within a year they leave. Yes, if we lost probably half a million dollars in salary and equipment, yes. But when I lose that five year officer, it's millions that we've got invested. And we all have to start somewhere in an organization, right? But that new officer or a firefighter walking in, and I've said this as long as it been a cheap, for that brand new police officer or firefighter coming in, it takes them about two years to really grasp the totality of what they're supposed to be doing. Thank you. And Council Member D. Biasi, you could run a utility analysis, and I've thought about that in the past, but it just the cost to run a utility analysis just to show that where you can quantify and put dollar figures next to those additional variables that contribute to compensation and benefits. Compin benefits is just your motivators wrapped up and obviously your material reward has to have basic minimum as your incentive but like autonomy Yeah, yeah, like all those things that are motivated praise recognition those things that matter to you in terms of Comp and benefits can have dollar values Associated with it, but it's just expensive to run utility. No, I ran my own utility analysis, but I thought it would be worth it. But I'm just like that. I mean, I want to get down. All right. All right. Any other questions? All right. And thank you. All right. Next item. Thank you. The next item is announcements. I do have a couple. We'll have a zoning public participation meeting on Thursday, April 6th at 7 p.m. They'll be a planning commission meeting Monday, April 10th at 7 p.m. Then we're back here on April 11th for a five p.m. work session and a 7 p.m. council meeting. Thank you. Any other announcements? Seeing none, next item. Thank you, Mayor announcements? Seeing none next item. Thank you, Mayor. We have nothing under old business or new business. I'm not aware of any other business. Okay. We have another opportunity for public comment. Anybody from public comment? It could be you. It could be you. But all right, seeing none. Thank you. Mayor's comments Just you know that was a good I think the monthly manager's report was the highlight of the meeting tonight so that's that's the kind of a new thing But I mean it's always fantastic. It's always fantastic don't get me wrong But that was kind of the heart of our discussion tonight. But so I think we're relatively light and ready to go back to executive session. Now you make an announcement. I make an announcement. Sure. OK, thank you. I just wanted to let just some people that are listening know that I think we had a really good session at work session today regarding football. And I am so happy that we're the direction that we're going as a council and a city that we're being more inclusive on football at all different levels. I think is going to the net of it will be so I'm very, very happy with that on a positive side. On more of a sort of neutral negative side, I want to encourage as many people in the city that if they're going out for dinner, if they're going out for fun to try to support local businesses. There's a lot of restaurants today. I know of one specifically. I won't mention that it's been around for a number of years and they had to close the doors. They're still struggling from the pandemic and they held on as long as they possibly can. And I'm just encouraging people to go ahead and spend money in the areas that they live. Because I think it helps all around the multiplier effect is big. So that's I like to say. All right, thank you, shop local. All right, any other announcements or motion to go to executive session? I move to adjourn to executive session where we will discuss land legal and impersonal issues. All right, great. And is there a second? My second. Thank you, Council Member Ehrmelley. Is there a discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor? And we are adjourned to go to executive session. Mayor, we're recording. All right, fantastic. So we just got back from executive session, any motions? Mayor, I'd like us to adjourn out of executive session. That sounds fantastic, Council Member Coughlin. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Tunky for the second. Any discussion? Well, I support this. Okay, fantastic speech. Any other discussion? Seeing none, all is in favor. We are now adjourned out of executive session. And with that, next item. Mayor, would you like to report? Oh, yeah. Would like to report that we handled seven land issues. Thank you for that. There are no further items on the agenda this evening. Okay. You know what it is, the power of one. I'm proposing to you for next two hours. All right. what is the power of one. I'm the補sby's to you for next two hours. All right, because of a lack of a second, that motion dies. Mayor, I move that we adjourn this evening's meeting. All right, fantastic. That does not require a second. Any discussion? No. Seeing none, all those in favor? We are officially adjourned. Thank you. Fantastic. All right.