Good evening, Rockville, and welcome all. Today is July 8, 2024, and we are going to begin meeting number 17-24. We'll begin with the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the blood of the United States of America and to the republic, from which it stands, one nation under God in the digital with liberty and justice are all. Thank you. Next is a gender review, Ms. Taylor Farrell. Madam Mayor and Council members, this evening, I am going to have a request to items 1, number 9 to be moved up after community form for 11 c for the public and for the public that is here now, whether or not we're going to either remove those items to another date or continue to discuss at this time for the agenda. Thank you. We do have a very packed agenda this evening and we want to respect and honor all the people have come out for community forum and make sure we have adequate time to give people to speak and share their stories and testimony. With that, I do recommend that we plan ahead right now from what we've seen so far, we have about two hours of testimony planned. We think what you have to say is important, and we're here to listen. And so we are willing to, I believe, I'm speaking on behalf of the body, please chime in, move items A and C to another day. And we would ask this week that the city manager give us an opportunity to have dates certain of one that would be. Colleagues, are you okay with this approach? Okay. I'm seeing unanimity here. So we will be modifying the agenda to remove items 11A, which relates to accessory dwelling units, which is extremely important to housing as well, and C, which relates to 900 champion billets. We still will have the public hearing on this topic. We'll just move the discussion in action to end of the day. All right, any other changes? There will be no city manager review. I think we're okay with that in light of allowing people time to speak. Right? Okay. Councilmember Van back. What was their request with regard to item number nine and moving it? Is that what you mentioned? Yes. Today when staff was discussing they read that because consent items, there's no real discussion on those if we could just have that five minute vote ahead of the public hearing. Yes, I think those are all. And in the agreement of what we're okay to move. All right, thank you very much. With that, we're going to begin with proclamations and then we have some boards and commissions appointments and then after those appointments we will proceed to community forum and we'll share some instructions for that. Thank you all for your patience and thank you for being here. Our first recognition and proclamation is to support and acknowledge peace stay. I think that we can all agree on at least this thing that we do need more peace in this world, particularly in this country and our community. And I want to thank Jenny's Dapanek for all that she has been doing in support of her son, Maddie, to really honor his life by creating a legacy of peace for all of us. And so it is with great honor to read this proclamation and I'll also note that we will be having a very very special event on July 14th. I know that you'll speak about it to honor peace, they. Whereas Maddie J. T. Stepanik was an American poet, ambassador, an advocate for peace in our world, and whereas at the age of three, Maddie started to write poetry, which she referred to as his heart songs, enabling him to cope with a rare and fatal form of muscular dystrophy, a disease that has claimed the lives of his sister and two brothers, and whereas the message contained in Maddie's heart songs touched the lives of people around the world, reaching individuals of all ages, races, nationalities, faiths, abilities and aspirations. And whereas after his death, on June 22, 2004, just peace, A collection of essays on peace and Maddie's correspondence with former president Jimmy Carter was published and awarded the Independent Publish a Gold Medal Award for the outstanding book of the year in 2007 in the Peace Maker category. And June 2024 marked the 20th anniversary of Maddie's passing. Whereas the Sepanic family chose to live in Rockville and Maddie loved the city, neighbors and friends. Whereas on October 18th, 2008, the city of Rockville honored Maddie J. T. Sepanick for his remarkable contributions to this community and to people all over the world by naming 26 acres of the park and Kingfarm community for him. And whereas the Maddie JT St. Panic Foundation will host a peace date in the park on July 14, 2024, from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. please mark your calendars. We'll be in the Peace Garden at Maddie's JT Stepanick Park. Now therefore, the Mayor and Council of the City of Rockville do hear Bipole claim July 17, 2024 as JT Stepanick P. Stay and encourage all members of the community to recognize the many contributions of Maddie JT Stepanick by thinking gently, speaking gently, living gently, the motto by which his courageous young man has lived his life. Let us all move towards peace in our own community and across the globe. Welcome. Welcome. Thank you. We're also dedicating a labyrinth this year that symbolizes the pathways to peace. I have a labyrinth for each of the council members. So this one's yours, and I'll pass them out to you guys before I leave. But I do want to thank you all for 20 years. You've been proclaiming Maddie's birthday as a day of peace, which makes you role models. We don't even have to ask anymore. It's on the permanent calendar. And I think about it, I think 20 years ago we needed peace. We were like dealing with post 9-11. Well, here we are today. We still need peace. And in 20 years from now I guarantee you we're still going to need peace. And the really amazing thing about Maddie is that he was able to take peace and move it from ending a war, move it from something abstract, and make it something very personal, achievable, meaningful, replicable. He talked about tending to basic human needs so that we can be okay within. And that makes it easier to be okay with others and living community. We celebrate his messages at this peace day event. This Sunday is going to be hot. Yes, but it's going to be a worthy hot. Please just come out with your water. We'll also have water. We have arts, crafts, mosaic, building, tie-dye moon balance, entertainment, out the wazoo, and ribbon cutting for the new labyrinth and flame of hope. So it's just going to be a great, great day and I encourage you to help us make peace the news. You can learn more on our social media and are about to change website, MaddyOnline.com. But thank you, just be there and thank you, you guys for all you do. Oh Maddy's website for one more week is MaddyOnline.com, M-A-T-T-I-E, online.com. You can go to that years to come because it's going to fold over into the new website, which is Maddie's piece foundation.org We're changing because 20 years ago when you would say the word Maddie people are right away thought oh the upper kid Jimmy Carter's kid the hearts on kid I mean they knew Maddie around the world Today you say who is Maddie and people have to pause. So we're reteaching people Maddie's peace foundation so that you associate the name, so that's why the change. So thank you. And I would encourage you to look at some of the interviews that he's done. It's quite outstanding. And the City of Rockville is honored to be able to create something new and reflect with our entire city with a labyrinth. Again, that event will be on July 14th from 11 to 2 at Maddy J.D.'s dependent park. Thank you. We've been able to vote on this. We're going to vote on it, yes. All right. I need to say yes. I have a sneaky suspicion. It'll be unanimous. But I need someone to move this please. All right, do we have a second? Everyone moves in seconds at. Up for the record it was Councilmember Fulton and Jackson. I know that they asked us to. All right. Thank you. Thank you. This is for you. We have Mr. Mayor Keith. Mayor Newton. Mayor Newton. How many of you are good? Everybody get one? Well good. Thank you. It's like Halloween. Thank you. I did anybody miss one? Was this Davis? All right. All right. Next we'll have a proclamation from Council move and Greg. So transitioning from piece from piece day to parks and recreation and it's a wonderful note. Since 1985 there's been a recognition of parks and recreation month. However, Rockville has been focusing on their parks for many many years and one of the wonderful things about parks we can hold events like P-Stay this upcoming weekend. So Rockville's parks is definitely something that we're proud of and we're proud to be able to focus it. And we also, after the proclamation, we're going to note we have a number of community achievement award recipients with regard to the Rockville recreation parks incorporated. And so we'll recognize the Rockville by bike hub, Monica Berger, and Chuck Willary after the proclamation. Whereas parks and recreation is an integral part of communities throughout this country, including Rockville Maryland. And whereas parks and recreation promotes health and wellness, improving the physical and mental health of people who live near parks, and parks recreations are fundamental to the environmental well-being of our community and parks and recreations cultivate a culture of connection and promote time spent in nature which positively impacts mental health by increasing cognitive performance and well-being and alleviating illnesses such as depression attention deficit disorders, and Alzheimer's. And whereas parks and recreation programming and education activities such as out of school time programming youth sports and environmental education are critical to childhood development and is a leading provider of healthy meals, nutritional services, and ensures the ecological beauty of our community and provides a place for children and adults to connect with nature and recreate outdoors. And whereas parks and recreation increase a community's economic prosperity, to increase property values, expansion of the local tax base, increased tourism, the attraction and retention of businesses and crime reduction. And whereas parks and recreation is essential and adaptable infrastructure that makes communities resilient in the face of natural disasters and climate change. Whereas the U.S. House of Representatives has designated July as Parks and Recreation Month and the city of Rockville, Maryland recognizes the benefits derives from parks and recreation resources. Now therefore the Mayor and Council of Rockville, Maryland do hereby proclaim July, 2024 as Parks and Recreation Month and urge everyone to take full advantage of our beautiful parks and recreation facilities and amenities now and throughout the year. Madam Mayor, I move the proclamation. Thank you. Do we have a second? Come somewhere, shall I second all those in favor please raise your hand and say aye. Aye. Aye. One, two. And now I believe we do have chip boil. Chip and uh, uh, uh, chrysanthemum as well. Chrysanthemum. Come on, chrysanthemum. I don't like to come up, but we're going to do it to you anyway. Yeah, now thank you. Thank you. Can we go ahead? Absolutely. You're welcome. Appreciate it. Thank you. Mayor and council members, it's great to recognize the month of July as Reckon Park month, but we really have to remember who got us here, and there are two groups that are primary responsible for the Reckon Park programs and facilities in Rockville and that's our Mayor and Council and our Rockville employee, City Employees. Please join me in apprauding their center. The Rockville Recreation and Parks Foundation was established more than a decade ago to help support Reckon Park programs in the City of Rockville Recreation and Parks Foundation was established more than a decade ago to help support Reckon Park programs in the city of Rockville for instance on July 19th you can adopt a duck Where you got to adopt a duck for five dollars and we're raising money to support the renovation of the Rockville Recreation pool We're gonna put a few thousand of these in the pool that night pull out the Rockville Recreation Pool, we're going to put a few thousand of these in the pool that night, pull out ones for prizes, top prize of thousand bucks. So go to the website and adopt a duck for the City of Rockville. Our foundation realized soon after it came into existence that there were organizations and individuals who had done great things for the City of Rockville and the Reckon Park programs. And so we created our Reckon Arch, Community Achievement Awards to recognize those people and organizations. Tonight we have three such awards. The first award goes to the Rockville bycub who are represented this evening by Sophie Chan-Woods and Connie Bertkut. Could you please join us up here? The Rockville Bike Hub is a group of cyclists who established a nonprofit organization in 2014 in Rockville to advocate for safety and improvements for bicycling throughout the city. Their goal is to provide a place where cyclists can go to learn how to fix and maintain their bikes, borrow space and tools to build or upgrade a bike, or just get advice and talk about bikes. They regularly hold bicycle safety and basic maintenance and repair clinics. Each year they provide up to 80 bicycles for the terrific bike program. For the past 10 years, Rockefeller Bike Hub has been giving away refurbished bicycles to children attending Rockefeller schools in grades one through way to complete good deeds. They are also working on projects in the community to help educate people about the benefits of bicycling to enhance health, improve the environment, and promote more human scaled communities. So again, our first award tonight goes to the Rockville Bike Hub. And we'd like a few words from you. Hi, thank you very much. And I also want to thank Steve and Drusky. He's our third board member and all the volunteers that come out and make this possible. And I'd like to invite anybody in the room who's interested in volunteering. We have a space at 10 North Washington Street. We take donated bikes and we do the best we can to get them out in the community to anybody who needs a bike. But if you're not interested in learning how to repair bikes, there's plenty of other ways you can help support us. We always need the help. But maybe also if you have a bike of your own and you need some help with it, come on by. Our guarantee is your bike will leave in better shape than it came in Thank you. Our next awards this evening go to Chuck Woolery and Monica Berger. Please join us. These are two leaders of the Rockville weed warrior program. Chuck Woolroy and Ronika Burger host and lead non-native and baseman plant removal work days on almost every weekend in Rockville parks. Through their efforts, hundreds of volunteers and students have been able to take part in restoring native habitat in our parks. Through their efforts, hundreds of volunteers and students have been able to take part in restoring native habitat in our parks. Monica was also the leader behind the creation of the native plant garden at Dawson Farm Park. Monica led volunteers in removing non-native plants and creating a deer fence around what is now a thriving native plant garden and wildlife habitat. Monica continues to organize volunteers to maintain the garden and is helping to teach residents about the importance of native habitat and managing non-native invasive species. Monica won an Environmental Excellence Award for the Native Habitat Garden in 2022. So let's applaud there. Applause. Thank you. I didn't actually know we were supposed to talk. So thank you very much. We really appreciate it. We didn't mention a lot about Chuck's contributions, but... I'll write about it next week. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I mean, we couldn't do what we do without the volunteers who sign up to join us for We'd Warrior Workdays, and so as you mentioned, we do them almost every weekend and we encourage people to sign up, go to Rockville Weed Warriors and look for dates, register to join us, no experience necessary. We'll teach you everything you need to know and it's quite satisfying and very addictive so we hope that you'll come out and join us. Yeah, I wasn't going to speak until I heard them. He took all my talking points, all about health and fitness all that kind of stuff. You know, this is the best fitness program I've ever found except for cardio and that's why I want to sign up for the bike people. That's right in my cardio and I've right about like a little, so thank you very much. And really thank the city for being so green. I want to chase the name of the block building, the Greenville. But I don't even want to let the people in. Anyway, thank you very much. Thank you. So remember the best recreation activity is Dadahtina Duk. Well, while he's there, I'll just note that the Rockville pool does, it's beyond just the aesthetic or people think of just swimming. The Rockville pool provides financial support for many families in need, and there is an opportunity to join the pool at a very, very reduced rate. So I'm very proud of our pool where where some communities close their pool, because they didn't want to do certain things in terms of equity. Rockfall is expanding our pool, and the renovations are going to make it more inclusive for more people. And so I'm proud of the work that you all are doing and thank you on that group. Thank you. Rockville, thank you so much to everyone who is volunteering and contributing in many ways. The next, we're going to talk about more volunteers who have shared their interest in supporting the city. We are going to be doing board and commissions appointments and reappointments. Sorry. The commission here. Councilor Van Grack, can you get back? Want this sheet to Councilor Van Grack? This is my sheet. You took mine. Sorry. We need one more sheet. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So we have several commissions which will be making appointments. We have more that will be coming July 29th. So I just wanted to flag that there will be more announcements to be made at the next meeting. With that we have the Cultural Arts Commission, Environment Commission, Landlord, Tenant Affairs, Recreation and Parks, Senior Citizens Commission, Education Commission. So I will ask my colleagues to please proceed to making motions to nominate these individuals. So Councilmember Fulton, I'm going to start on this line and everyone will take. I agree with one other time. I can and everyone will take. I'll do one at a time. I can do the hold-ins. We'll do them. OK. By group. OK. By committee. I move to appoint Melissa Beatty as a new appointment to serve an unexpired three-year term until October 1, 2025, on the Cultural Arts Commission. Thank you. It's been moved and seconded. All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye. Aye. Thank you. Next, we have the Environment Commission. I reappoint Pavitra Srinavassim to serve a full three-year term until January 1, 2027. Councilmember Jackson seconds. All those in favor please raise your hand and say aye. Thank you. Next we have landlord tenant affairs. I move to reappoint Jason Hubworth to a three-year term at an ad-large representative until September 1, 2026. Can you do both of them? Oh, no. And I move to appoint Canis MacGrissi to serve a full three-year term as landlord representative until April 1, 2027. Thank you. It's been seconded by Council Member Shaw. All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye. Thank you very much. Next is recreation and parks. I move to appoint John Thurroof, a reappointment for a three-year term until July 1st, 2027. I move to appoint Dirk Wattley, a reappointment to serve a three-year term until March 1st, 2027. I also move to reappoint Elizabeth Fisher to serve a three-year term until June 1st, 2027. Councillor Moor van Gragg seconds, all those in favor favor please raise your hand and say aye Okay, you now next Next we have the senior citizens commission. I move to have a new appointment of Ellen Wicker to serve an Unexpired three-year term until February 1st 2025 to the senior citizens commission and I also Move to have a new appointment of Alan Kaplan so that unexpired three-year term until May 1st, 2025, to the Senior Citizens Commission. Thank you. Do we have a second? Councilmember Jackson seconds, all those in favor. Please face your hand and say aye. Aye. All right, Dr. Miles, would you like to do the Education Commission? Sure, thank you, Madam Mayor. I'll just pull myself off mute. Pull it up. I'm sorry. So for the Education Commission Madam Mayor, I'd like to move the nominations of both aerial mendester. The reappoint to serve a two-year term. Wendy Whitaker, to be reappointed to serve a two-year term, and Edward Reed to be reappointed to serve a two-year term on the education commission. Thank you, and those will end April 1, 2026. Do we have a second? Councilman Fulton seconds, all those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye. All right, thank you to all of our volunteers who have signed up. We greatly appreciate all of your work. All right, next we to all of our volunteers who have signed up. We greatly appreciate all of your work. All right. Next we're moving to agenda item seven. This is our time for community forum. I want to think. We're going to do that community forum first and then right? You can we're going to do community we can do consent before community. Okay. All right. We can do consent before community. Okay. We can do consent before community. Okay. We can do consent before community. Okay. We can do consent before community. Okay. We can do consent. Okay. We can do consent. We can do consent before community. Okay. We can do consent before community. Okay. We can do consent. Okay. We can do consent. Okay. We can have agenda item 9. This is consent, award an authorization of the City Manager to execute a right of contract for inspection and repair, maintenance and installation of electronic security systems, EAI security systems, for a term through May 5, 2025 in an amount not to exceed $250,000, as well as approval of minutes. I have reviewed those today and made some very minor just grammatical changes but it looks in good order to me. Do we have a motion to move these two consent to jeta items 9a and b? I move to approve consent to jeta items 9a and 9b. Do we have it? Councilmember Felairey seconds. All those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye. Aye. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you, staff, for working on these items. If you do not need to be for the rest of the meeting, feel free to be dismissed and thank you for the work on this. We'll now be going to community forum. We have a lot of speakers. As I mentioned, it's about two hours. For agenda item 10, presentation and discussion on rent stabilization, each person will be allowed three minutes and we ask that you stick to three minutes allowed. There will be a time clock in front of you. You will hear an audible beep at the end of your three minutes. Please state your name and address for the record. I also want to make sure that we want to give time for everyone to be able to speak. So please allow people to speak. Let's be respectful. We can have difference of opinions. And that's OK. That's why we live in this great democracy. But please let everyone speak their mind. We welcome signs if you could just hold them so that you're not blocking the person behind you That would be greatly appreciated. I know that we can do this and do it well And I'm gonna just say thank you so much for being here what you have to say matters to all of us and we'll be listening to every comment you make I also want to note that if you need translation services we have staff here if you have not already signed up and you would like to, there is a list at the back of the room here where you can sign up. We have some people who have also submitted written testimony and the mayor and council have reviewed those items as well. I'm going to call upon our first speaker and ask staff to help me also line up the speakers in order. I will say two names at a time so that we can allow people time to walk up. The first person to speak is a county representative, representing county executive, Scott Bruton, is the director of the Department of Housing and Community Affairs. The next person, we're going to have Jenny's the panic. Thank you. Please have the mic ready for Ms. the panic. Good evening, Mayor Ashton and Council members. My name is Scott Bruton. I am the Director of the experience with rent stabilization programs. I was a renter in the District of Columbia for three years before moving to Montgomery County in 2013. I worked as a technical assistance provider for housing counseling services, a DC-based nonprofit for three years. I then worked for eight years as an advocate for affordable housing developers, tenants, and supportive service providers for another DC nonprofit, the Coalition for Nonprofit Housing and Economic Development. During which time, I conducted research on DC's rent stabilization law and regulation and helped write and pass several amendments to it. Since joining DCA in January 2023, I helped to write the final version of Montgomery County's rent stabilization law, led the writing of its regulations, and led the staffing and back-end preparation for its implementation. Given the affordable housing crisis in our region and the nation, I encourage the city of Rockville to join Montgomery and Prince George's counties in passing a rent stabilization law. For context, the average rent component of the consumer price index over the past 41 years was 3.1%. Based on an annual DCA rent rental rate survey data from 2016 to 2022, the medium rent charged was 1.1% year over year for all multifamily units in the sample regardless of whether the rent increase decreased or stays the same in the sample regardless of whether the rent increase decreased or stays the same. For units that reported an increased rent year over year, the median increase was 2.98%. More than half over 55% of the units in the sample experienced at least one rent increase. 36.8% of the units reported increases above the historical rent component of the CPI. During the same period, approximately 20% of units reported 3-10% increases. 5.5% of units reported 10-25% increases, and 1.3% of units reported increases above 25%. Average of rent increases across the jurisdiction hide two key points. First, a significant majority of rent increases are below the maximum set, high two key points. First, a significant majority of renter increases are below the maximum set by renstabilization laws. And so landlords would not be impacted by the limits. And two, the minority of renter increases that are significantly above renstabilization maximums have meaningful displacement and instability impacts upon renters. For landlords who need rent increases above the allowable limits for rent stabilization laws due to financial constraints or the intent to maintain a property, rent stabilization laws provide for fair return and capital improvement petitions. If any of you are interested, I would be happy to meet individually to discuss Montgomery County's rent stabilization law and regulation similar laws in the region and issues that are not considered in the reports of the County Office of Legislative Oversight or the City of Rockville's Department of Housing and Community Development. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Thank you very much. Next we have Jenny's DiPenek and staff. Oh, you have the microphone. Wonderful. I will pass this out. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I'll take a second. Yes. This is different. Why is Friends Stabilization critical? 25 years ago my son, Maddie, and I were living in people's basements as a single and disabled parent of a child with a disability. We faced many financial challenges. When Oprah Winfrey held up one of his books, we suddenly had this financial windfall blessing that allowed us to finally move to a safe home in a diverse community. With opportunities to work, learn, grow, play, get to know our neighbors and simply celebrate life. We chose the city of Rockville. For many years I called King Farm Home, him or recent years as my disability has progressed. Note here I have a condition that gets worse each year from ability and my vision. I made the decision to begin renting an apartment in downtown Rottville area so that despite a progressive and debilitating condition, I can continue working playing with peace, with purpose and in community. Living in my mama peace pad over at the Boulevard Ansel is a blessing in what is a challenging life. I am at the doorstep of so many public transportation options, so many community activities. My apartment serves as both my home and my office, and I can easily roll to many of the places where I work. My jobs include facilitating a growing understanding of peace, purpose, matters that are actually rooted in tending to basic needs and stability and security. As more and more youth and families and leaders practice and role model tending to basic needs, what we're actually doing is strengthening our community and serving to role model peace for other communities. I knew that moving into this apartment would be financially challenging. That financial windfall was a blessing that it did not change my year-to-year income status. To this day, I juggle several jobs so that I can continue living in this great city. I just renewed my lease, which included a rent increase. I spoke with management and they told me that legally my rent can be increased 10 to 20% or more each year. And to rent monthly would mean a 260% increase, really. I count my blessings because my rent increase was not that high, but I also still count every dollar earned As I near retirement and face continued disability progression the weight of worry is heavy The concern for what next is worrying renters in Rothville matter We should be able to call our rented spaces home, not just a place to stay until the next lease signing. We need security that rent increases are fair, justified, and minimal. This promotes and builds stability and pride, which is good for community and the city of Rockville. Housing security is a basic need that nurtures peace. Please, please, please pass rent stabilization and help us make peace the news. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next we have Ryan Murphy, followed by Misha Clive. Welcome. Thank you Madam Mayor. Hi, my name is Ryan Murphy and I'm going to be able to do this. I'm going to be able to do this. I'm going to be able to do this. I'm going to be able to do this. I'm going to be able to do this. I'm going to be able to do this. I'm going to be able to do this. I'm going to be able to do this. I'm going to be able to do this. I'm going to be able to do I think you're going to hear tonight that think that rents are too high here or that they've been growing too quickly. But I believe that some folks aren't advocating for the best approach to achieving this goal. The best approach to making rents more affordable is through increasing housing supply rather than caps on rent increases. I'm not minimizing the burden on unexpected rent increases can put on lower income families. I believe that while capping rent increases may seem like an intuitive solution, in the long run, rent control can do more harm than good for the people that were trying to help. A recent review of empirical research published in the Journal of Housing Economics found that while rent control can slow growth of rents and controlled units, it decreases the quality of those units because landlords will one best less in maintenance. It also increases rents and uncontrolled units, and incentivizes landlords to convert to condominiums. It also reduces the overall supply of rental housing, because developers will simply choose to build in another city where it's more profitable to do so. This hurts anyone, including folks of lower incomes, who want to move here for economic opportunity or for any other reason, by making it more expensive for them to do so. There is near unanimous consensus among economists on this issue to ignore them would be akin to ignoring the consensus among scientists that climate change is real. These are not just theoretical concerns. Housing development has drastically slowed in jurisdictions that have implemented strict direct control measures. In St. Paul, Minnesota, multifamily building permits were down 82% after Ren Control was passed. Right in our backyard in Tacoma Park, the supply of rental units has been shrinking for decades since Ren Control passed, and development in wider Montgomery County is already being negatively impacted by their new rent stabilization law. On the flip side, their countless real-world examples of how the solution rising rents is increasing housing supply. Cities like Minneapolis, Raleigh, and Austin, which have recently relaxed zoning and allowed substantial housing development, have had flat or declining rents despite strong population growth, while in most American cities rents have continued to skyrocket over the same period. The problem is not landlord-grade. All businesses are always trying to maximize their profits. However, constraining housing supply forces renters here to compete with each other for limited apartments, which drives up rents, whereas what we should be taking advantage of land lord greed by forcing landlords to compete with each other to try and attract renters with lower rents. These policies will not affect me personally. I'm not a landlord, and I'm also not currently a renter anymore. But I am a resident of Rockville that is concerned that many of the folks who are not as fortunate as I am in whose struggle with the cost of housing. I therefore urge the mayor and council to carefully consider the long term unintended consequences of strict rent control measures and instead pursue supply-based policies which would be much more effective at making housing here more affordable. Thank you. Thank you. Misha Clive. Hello. My name is Misha. My pronouns are they them. It's good to see you all again. I am from a family that's about to disappear from Rockville. We pay the median rent and we're struggling to get by so I'm here to advocate for passing rent stabilization now and I'd like to share a dispatch from the disappearing family. So we used to live in Silver Spring. We had a big corporate overlord landlord there that gave us toxic mold. Renters insurance doesn't cover that, so our savings disappeared. We moved to RTC looking for a fresh start. When we came here, we wanted to get a short term lease because there are a little nervous on big corporate landlords. More guard offered to jack up our rent for the short term and then when we renewed for the longer term to keep our rent jacked up. So we started at a jacked up rent in our first year here, but we fell in love with Rockville. We love living here, we love supporting businesses, events, we love the square, June-teenth, the Asian barbecue festival, pride, vizarts, the concerts, everything's amazing here and we want to stay here and we think it should be affordable for many, many more families to be in this area. But in the three years that we have tried to hang on, Morgard has kept jacking at rents. And so we've gone from 2142 for a one bedroom, one den to 2141 bedroom. So that one den that we have that was going to be a future nursery has disappeared. A lot else has disappeared like our local grocery store. Really hope that something's going to happen there. But we currently have $2,100 in rent to live next to a giant husk that is not feeding us or the community. And our job prospects have really disappeared. My partner and I tried to make a change. She was going to go into tech. I was going to go into early childhood teaching, which is not a very lucrative career. She went to became an honor student in Montgomery College, 4.0 GPA, went on together a bachelor's degree, graduated just on time for 100,000 layoffs in her industry and the advent of AI. Childhood teaching doesn't pay enough for me even for rent and health insurance, so I get to teach at my synagogue on weekends, which I love, but we have lost those dreams. So those dreams have disappeared. Now we probably can't afford to stay here. And people often say if you don't like it leave, they also say if you can't afford it leave. But there is a cost. There's a cost to leaving. There's a cost of rooting your life. There's a cost of moving, being separated from an aging parent, losing your community, your family, and your friends, and your doctors, and necessities, and your routines. All of that. If we have to leave Rockville, we're probably not going to be here. We're not going to come back. We're not going to go to the events. We're not going to buy from the businesses because I work three jobs. We don't have time to come back. We're here because we're here when we love it. We want to stay. I don't actually know that you all can help us on our timeline. And we are, we're white, my partner and I are white, we were raised middle class, US citizens, fluent English speakers, a lot of advantages. So for how many people are struggling far more than we are, we need rent stabilization. It's going to help tens of thousands of people, because people need to know if we can afford to live, and people need to know if we can afford to stay where we live. MoCo is doing it, PG County is doing it, DC is doing it, why isn't Rockville? We need to pass rent stabilization now. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm getting a note from staff to just say please speak a little louder into the mic and then please note you want them to say. We would like you if you don't want to provide your address just provide what part of the county you live in. Thank you. All right. Next we have Stacey Capowitz followed by Chris Moldez. I know we have some people in the overflow room so I'll say a few other names just in case I see Chris Moldez coming in. I also know Stacy Caboets after Chris Moldez, we have Mike Englisch. Thank you. Welcome. Madam Mayor and esteemed council members, thank you for the opportunity to speak before you this evening. And thank you to staff for your well written report. I'd afford a and rockville. My name is Stacy Kaplowitz, and I am Vice President and Managing Regional Partner with Lincoln Avenue Communities, a mission driven national owner and operator of affordable and mixed income housing. A resident of Rockville, I proudly serve as the chair of the Rockville Housing Enterprise's Board of Commissioners, and I'm a passionate advocate for affordable housing access, both locally and throughout the country. As a long tenured affordable housing professional, I am here to express my views on thinking about rent control independently. Rent control or rent stabilization policies are enacted to prevent the displacement of renters experiencing excessive rent increases. While the scope of this specific problem in Rockville has not been measured or qualified, this issue has been magnified by a well organized and passionate group of rent control advocates. These emotional pleas are compelling and persuasive and illuminate a dire need for expanding access to affordable housing. While undoubtedly well-meaning, rent control inadvertently discourages new investment in housing, effectively adding a new barrier to supply, it is a tool and there is compelling data which illustrates divestment in cities like San Francisco and St. Paul which both saw significant decreases in multifamily new construction starts since rent control measures were put in place. Consider neighboring Tacoma Park. According to the staff report, Tacoma Park has a much lower average rent due to its longstanding rent stabilization policy and lack of new multi-family housing construction. Tacoma Park has had no new multi- units built since the 1970s, and the existing stabilized and subsidized properties are concentrated in clusters rather than being integrated and dispersing affordability throughout the city. These market dynamics are a function of rent control, not just rent control, but rent control contributes to that. In a recent National Multifamily Housing Council survey, 58% of developer and owner respondents reported that they are already reducing or avoiding investment in rent controlled markets. More than 87% of developer respondents avoid working altogether in these jurisdictions. According to the Hand Housing Indicator Tool, Rockville did not meet the annual production target of 485 units in 2023. Rockville had 27 new units built in 2023. We are behind and we need policies that focus on supply. We need more housing. We need more access to affordable housing. We need more pathways, and a singular focus on rent stabilization is just short-sighted. We should be focused on removing existing barriers and not creating new ones. We must hold landlords accountable to transparency and increase supply. Thank you. Thank you very much. Chris, All this? Welcome. Good evening folks, my name is Chris Moldes. I live at 501 Hungryford Drive right there next to the giant. I am here to testify in support of the Rent Civilization Act. I'm a relatively recent home owner and rockville. I bought a condo using the moderately priced dwelling unit program. So I could only afford a house because of affordable housing programs. And the reason I did that is not because I saw housing as an investment, it's more because I got tired of rent increases. And buying a house is in some way rent control right you're locking into a price you're paying a really hefty upfront cost and you're keeping your price stabilized during the life of your loan. People shouldn't have to do that. It's really expensive to do that and so I'll keep my time short because I know there's a lot of people here but I just want to express that capping it at 5% and the fact that this doesn't affect small land or gyro talking people who own more than two units and things like that, like this would affect those giant conglomerates that like own a bunch of apartment buildings. We got to help people stay in their homes without having them have to pay a huge cost and making sure that they can stay where they live, stay where they work, and honestly put down roots in the community. Thank you. Thank you. Mike Englisch, followed by Rhea Moses. Herbita. Thank you. My name is Mike Englisch. I live in downtown Silver Spring. And while I do not live in Rockville, I do feel like I'm somewhat well suited to speak on this topic, giving my housing advocacy in Montgomery County and in Maryland in general and a net stabilization of a tickular. And after all, housing crisis is not end at the neighborhood or city boundary. To cut to the chase, I believe as a growing body of research indicates that it is important to lean on three major pillars to address housing needs. Supply, subsidy, and yes, stability. That means acknowledging that supply and demand is the core cause of housing price and rent increases, and that more housing of more types is needed. More housing of more types is needed. More housing of more types is the most fundamental cure. Egnolging and not everyone can afford market rates and that's some need subsidized housing or other forms of assistance. And acknowledging that if done in such a way as to not dramatically reduce supply, stabilization provides needed protections against major rent spikes and the resulting displeasement and disruption to the lives of renters. There's been, to long story short, the details matter. Someone mentioned to him a park law without getting two into details that are strong criticisms I would make of the coma park law that I would not make of other laws. You need to be careful not to paint with a broad broad here. Both supporters and critics of rent stabilization have merits to their arguments. It is true that laws can be crafted in such a way as to protect against large rent increases without creating large disincentive and development. And it's true that our front of productions are too strict, laws can do more harm than good. I will say that I think the county's rent stabilization law passed last year and the revised regulations to enforce it that were recently sent to the county council are a decent goal to aim for. The law is not perfect, but I think that with a reasonably flexible rent cap tied in most cases to inflation, rent banking and fair return provisions, and perhaps was crucially a long floating new building exemption of about 20 years, all in all in the long run, its impacts on supply will be modest and the protections give interventions significant. I know this is a broader conversation here, but I think that's just worth framing someone. Having a new building exemption that allows lenders to get their money back to invest in developers, particularly in the first 15 to 20 years, is particularly key. As you may or may not know, I spend a lot of time talking about how important private, for-profit development, and housing instruction is needed. To the point where I have an actual developer shield jar that I've started putting quarters in whenever people levy some form of that accusation to me. The honest truth is that, you know, developers are not inherently good or bad. I've talked with some that are amazing people, talked with one or two that are frankly jerks, and most are miraculously un-rearkable. I can certainly myself with making sure that we don't overly restrict their ability to build for the simple reason that we need the thing that they build, even as I push for other alternatives. I bring this all up to say that while there are some things that I tweak with the county's law and some cautions that must be taken offense stabilization general, the laws provisions don't really keep me up at night for the county and a lot of other legislation does. There is a balance to be struck here, so please keep it open as a possibility. Thank you. Thank you. Repeat and Moses, followed by Scott Goldberg. Are you thinking Mayor, I requested a double time Matete who is the city manager at this time and we'll speak to but we will be doing. What it may or we did respond and we say we can be able to have staff available to read the statement. I was calling me after you and I don't know what I'm going to name, but we had a different discussion after that. And she wanted to know what my disability was and then she said she would get back to me and she never did. But she said she has a better idea and she didn't mention that she agreed that we'll probably need more time. Could we just see in this spirit of trying to get this done? Sarah, did you want to say something, Sarah? Yes. I responded and so did the response from the city manager that we would accommodate to have somebody read your statement where you could provide it to us. And we'd make sure that the mayor and council have a copy of it. Yeah, we have to move forward and keep our time. We would have to accommodate everybody over the time. We have over 50 plus right now. After you email someone called me. I have a call log. Can we? Can I spoke to her and then we have someone read it for you? I don't want any water. I'll just say, can you, let's do three minutes, we'll give you an additional 30 seconds. And if you could email us the rest, we will be part of that. I would like to be accommodated under 88 title two for a double time, six minutes. That is our accommodation. All right, that's your accommodation, am I? Did you want to say something, Mr. Adosin? We don't generally do double time. I will allow some additional time just because we want to keep this moving. Sure. I'll start now. Yes, thank you. I've testified here before. I'm a rockville renter. My name is Rebecca Moses. And I have shared, well, I do want to thank Councilwoman Isola Shaw and Councilmember David Miles for supporting the ren stabilization fight for the city of Rockville. And as I've mentioned before, I'm a trafficking survivor and I'm also disabled. I urge the city of Rockville to implement strong rents stabilization policies to protect our most vulnerable residents including disabled individual trafficking survivors, low income families and communities of color while acknowledging the city's high proportion of Caucasian residents. Rising housing costs are pushing many long-term residents out of their homes and neighborhoods affecting people across all racial demographics. Ren stabilization would provide crucial stability for those on fixed incomes. Struggling with low wages or facing systematic barriers. For disabled residents, trafficking survivors, and low income families of all backgrounds, stable housing is essential for maintaining employment, accessing services, and achieving economic stability. While Rockville has a high rate of Caucasian residents, Black and Latino communities have been disproportionately impacted by gentrification and displacement. Restabilization would help preserve diversity and allow working family of all races to remain in Rockville. These policies are proven tools to prevent displacement while still allowing landlords a fair return. return. Rent stabilization would particularly benefit our low income community and members who are most vulnerable to housing insecurity regardless of race. I ask you to ask swiftly to implement rent stabilization and protect our most vulnerable neighbors, ensuring and the people of the community. And give me a moment please. It's fine. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Could you call off the news, Grant and Noe? The three of us here represent different parts of Rockville. I represent the West End, Zoe represent the East End, and Grant Sam's represents the North End. During the past few months, a United and diverse coalition led by renters and supported by organizations tirelessly canvassed our neighborhoods, knocking on nearly 2,000 doors to share their stories and seek your support. We have listened to our neighbors fears and hopes, hearing the cries for help from seniors on fixed incomes, young families trying to make ends meet and essential workers who are the backbone of our community. The message is clear and urgent. The current state of unregulated rent increase is unsubstantial and is driving many of us to the brink of displacement. We are proud to live in Rockville. We contribute to his vibrancy and growth every day. Our children attend at school, we shop in its stores, and we work in its businesses. We are the seniors who have spent decades nurturing the community, the young adults striving to build a future in this community, and the essential workers who keep the city running smoothly. Yet, despite our contributions, we have been priced out of our homes by skyrocketing running creases and show no signs of abating. Thank you very much. We appreciate your testimony. I'm not on the line. They're going to help me finish. So we can we actually what how about this please will I will call on your name so that you can help testifies that okay and you can have your own three minutes. I know but we do have many other speakers and I would like to let them to speak. They can have their own three minutes actually. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everyone. I appreciate your patience and thank you for your testimony. I know this is a very hard topic. Welcome, Scott Goldberg. Mayor and council, happy day 14 of living in Assana. My name is Scott Goldberg. I'm the CEO and general council of a small company called Streamline Management. We operate in Maryland, DC, Virginia, including Rockville, to come apart, and a number of other municipalities. For context, we care for properties that are either detached homes or row homes, or if you own an individual condominium for people who own like one property or two. So if you're a foreign service officer or you had a job transfer, or you successfully reproduced enough times that you need more space, and you held on to your property, those are the people that we represent. So not giant apartment buildings or individuals. I was asked to come and share my experience of operating in the residential property management world for the last 17 years. You know, I was trying to figure out today if I was getting fired up about rent control or not and I called a bunch of my clients and No one really Minded too much or cared either way because for the vast majority of the the people we work with we don't really increase rents that much Right, there's both a moral and an economic Sensibility that we're going to increase rent our small amount, or not at all, because we want people to stay, right? That's like a thing. But I did want to share some experiences both positive and negative. We hear about the city of Tacoma Parcola, right? Rent control, I think, has been good there, and it does have affordable rents. On the flip side of that, whether perception or actual economics, landlords do not put as much money in their properties in those neighborhoods where rent control exists. What does that look like? So the most affordable property that we manage are the about 1,000 units that we manage is also the least expensive, is also the most difficult to lease. And that's because it does a 1954 kitchen, 1954 bathroom, and to upgrade those, you know, with Home Depot stuff, sorry Home Depot. But it was going to cost $28,000 to get it into like a decent livable standard to raise the rent $200 a month, so from $810 to a little over $1000. And just the economics didn't work, so the quality of the property is lesser. So that's the trade-off that you're facing today. And with my last 43 seconds, I'm going to call out the Rockville City Council from 1980 to 1999. So in the packet, there are 1,500 rental units in the city today that were created during that time. In the 10 years after after from 2000 to 2009, there's double that. So in half the time, they created double the amount of units. I think that's the balance that, as you consider, rent control and other housing policies, that you need to strike. So when we're like really old or dead, that the people 40 years, 50 years from now, have that housing supply, this naturally occurring housing, so that housing supply, this naturally occurring housing so that they have a place to live. Thank you. Thank you very much. We now have Christine Hong from the services to end and prevent homelessness from the county and then we have Griffin Benton government affairs Maryland build business industry association There's hot Good evening mayor and council my name is Christine, and I'm a lifelong resident of the City of Rockville. I grew up here. I went to Wooten High School on a Patriot. I also happened to be the chief of services to end and prevent homelessness with the Department of Health and Human Services. I have nearly 20 years of experience working with the homeless population in Montgomery County. As a resident I have always been proud that the City of Rockville is so supportive of efforts to address homelessness in Montgomery County and provide grants to the emergency shelters that serve City of Rockville residents. From my experience of Chief of Services to end and prevent homelessness I want to speak to the need for rent stabilization in the city of Rockville. Far too many Rockville residents are housing cost burdened and struggle to afford rent in the city. When rents go up drastically, as they have, higher than a household's ability to afford it, they become unstable in their housing and increasingly at risk of experiencing homelessness. We are in the midst of a housing crisis. The voluntary rent guidelines issued by the city are not adequate in protecting the affordability of housing for the 55% of rockville renters who are housing cost burdened. The 2024 point in time count conducted in January indicates that homelessness has increased in Montgomery County by 28%. For families, the increase was 47% by number of people and families, the majority of whom were children. Families, of course, have been most impacted and you are likely also aware that the county's crisis center regularly had people sleeping on the floor due to our shelters being at capacity this past year. In addition, the county's emergency shelters ran out of space and caused the shelters to have to expand during hypothermia season, during the winter and the coldest months of the year, putting mats on the floor to save lives. We believe the increase in homelessness has been caused by rising rents, inflation, and the end of the federal emergency rental assistance funds. Montgomery County received over $120 million during the pandemic, And we prevented more than 19,000 evictions. Those funds are gone. And I want to emphasize that services to end and prevent homelessness continues to have an eviction prevention program. For fiscal year 25, we have only $4.7 million to prevent evictions. And we know that that is not enough. to prevent evictions and we know that that is not enough. SESF's Housing Stabilization Services has seen a two-fold increase in demand for rental assistance and eviction prevention. It's just a small fraction of the funds that I mentioned that we received from the federal government. We are also utilizing other strategies to address increasing homelessness in the city of Rockville and throughout our county. Rent stabilization needs to be one of the solutions. And I'll just say thank you so much for your time and I strongly urge the mayor and council to consider rent stabilization as one way to prevent homelessness in our city. Thank you. Thank you. Next we have Arnold Polynter, followed by Griffin Benton. Hello. Thank you for the opportunity to address you. I'm Arnold Polynger. I'm the president of the Polynger Company. We are a real estate management company in Montgomery County and in Rockville. We manage over 4,000 units in the county and over 1,100 units in the city of Rockville. Some of these are 60 years old. They're old. They're in between pricing for people for work housing. I've been managing these for over 40 years. While I recognize that there are some landlords that take advantage in ways I do not like, I think, the majority of landlords do things equitably and try to care about their tenants. I know we certainly have done that. Rents have increased more than I would like. I'm sensitive to rent increases also, but expenses have increased even more. I looked at today to go back and compare our properties in Rockville. That's congressional properties in Rowlands Park. 2019, I compared to 2023. The rent collection has increased about 2.5% per year over that period for a total of 11% over four years. In the meantime, the expenses have increased 19 percent over that time, and the CPI is in the same range as our expenses about 19 percent increase. So that kind of situation where expenses are increasing larger than the rents is not sustainable long-term. And what that means is that it becomes hard for us to renovate units. Our model is when our long-term tenants often are 15, 20%, 25% below market because they've been there a long time. When they move out, we spend maybe $25,000 or $30,000 to renovate a unit and then we go to market. When we can no longer go to market, which is the case in Montgomery County, it means we can no longer renovate. And that means that these units are going to become run down, which is something I would really hate to see. And we pride ourselves on these units being kept up. Also, I want to say that we deal with a number of institutional investors and and Wenders and some of them have told us in informal conversations that they no longer are going to invest or lend in Montgomery County. I would hate to see that happen in Rockville. Well, I think there are problems with rents being too high. I think that rent control, especially if it's done with two broader brush, is counterproductive and actually reduce the stock of housing and may read us for example to tear housing down and build much more expensive housing than what's there at the current time. So we've got to be careful what we do. So we're going to throw out the baby with the bath water. Thank you. Thank you. Griffin Benton followed by Nat Steel. Hello. My name is Nat Steeleele. I use Sheet Her Pronouns. I live in East Rockville, just on the other side of the metro station. I'm speaking today in support of Rockville Rent Stabilization. I like many Rockville residents and a renter. I've lived in the DC area for going on 15 years. And all that time, I've never been able to live in one place for more than two years. I've had to move constantly because of rental market fluctuations and increases. Think about the instability that creates never being able to buy furniture or possessions above a certain size because you're going to have to move it next year. Uprooting social circles, having to reconsider your job because your commute keeps changing. We're middle class people in our 30s. I live with my girlfriend who works for the county in Rockville Town Center. I work for Labor Union in downtown DC. We got lucky. We were able to rent a home that fit both of our commutes in Rockville close to the station. We moved here last year and we love it here. But we're already driving the rent increases that could be coming. The truth is that we got lucky with our house. The search for housing that fit these very basic needs was very sparse. In earlier generations we could have got on the track to home ownership, but without stability it's hard to imagine buying. It feels as though the dream of settling down is a constantly moving target and rents keep going up. D.C. M. Montgomery County, my understanding, recently passed strong rent stabilization legislation. Now, it's up to Rockville to do the same and bring our policies in line with our surroundings. I support rent stabilization because we already know what will happen without it, and it's the same thing that happened all over the country. Corporate landlords snatch up the housing near transit and amenities, the housing that allows everyday people to live easily. Corporate developers don't build more housing for actual people, instead they use this property, which is going up in value, for assets speculation. Sighting quote the market. Smaller landlords feel justified to hike their rents. Everyday people get priced out of the places they need, and that the places that need them. You end up with expensive properties, all too often empty of tenants, and a downtown robbed of its workforce and population. Voluntary rent guidelines fall flat in the face of these forces. I know Rockville can choose a better future. A future where young families can raise their kids with stability, a Rockville that doesn't force its residents to move farther and farther away from their jobs and social networks, but instead empowers them to stay in belt. A rockville does not just an expensive add-on to somewhere else, but is thriving social and economic and civic center in its own right. The next generation of rockville will be decided by the decisions we make about housing today. That's why I urge the Council to support rent stabilization, so I and my neighbors can continue to enjoy the city for years to come. Thank you. Thank you. If we have a riff and benton and then Zoe Pollock, I'll just list the next name as well. Rachel Platt will be virtual. Welcome. Hi, welcome. Thank you for your time. My name is Zoe Pollock. I'm an East Rockville renter and I'm a member of MDC DSA. My girlfriend and I are here today to urge the City Council to take up the issue of ren stabilization and get Rockville caught up to the standards in place in the rest of Montgomery County. Housing policy groups, public health organizations, and community members like me all agree that housing is healthcare. The first line of the safety net is keeping people in their homes where they have access to care and familiar communities. It is frequently also one of the least expensive interventions the policy makers can choose. It has wide ranging benefits across the public health and medical systems because it protects people from the harmful effects of eviction, homelessness, and displacement. Housing for all is a bedrock part of building a dignified and joyful society. For me personally, having a stable place to live close to my family allows me to stay present in the lives of my parents and older friends and family members. If we are forced out of our house by rising rents, we will not be able to afford the level of care and consideration as my friends, beloved family members and other aging relatives try to remain healthy in the years to come. It's emotional and angering for me to be here tonight listening to housing, supposed housing experts say that the market requires un-uncapped expansion in the realm of housing. I'm emotional about it. We all know because we have all seen the news stories that all the major landlords of DC have been the subject of a DOJ investigation into cartelization and speculation and a collusion to raise prices in DC. The stories that you're hearing tonight from renters in Rockville show that the greedy and rampant price increases backed by AI-driven algorithm-driven price increases have not just affected DC. They have also affected Rockville. I urge you to take a stand against this frankly illegal behavior on the part of Corp. of Llanloritz and take a step to protect the livelihood and health of Rockville residents. Thank you. Thank you. Rachel Platt is online. Please feel free to unmute at this time Danny is Mrs. Platte online Yes, I've only done her mic. Alright, you guys bring me her lymphocytes. The audio is very low. Ma'am, can you speak up a little louder. Can we maybe move on to the next virtual speaker but if Danny even could just call her and have her do the speaker to microphone. Oh sorry were you guys oh perfect we can hear you. Yeah, we can see. Sorry everybody. I'm Douglin the kids with dinner. I apologize. I wasn't sure the order with online. So I my name is Rachel Hamplet. I am a resident of Woodley Gardens. I am a mother of three. I am also Vice President of the Woodley Gardens Civic Association and I know there's a lot of rent stabilization discussion but I am here tonight just to talk briefly again about our position on smoke shops in Woodley Gardens. I'd reiterate our communities opposition to babeshops and smoke shops in shopping centers and other business zones within residential communities throughout the city of Rockville. We agree that aligning the text amendment with existing zoning helps to administer fair treatment of legal businesses in our city while protecting our community gathering spaces particularly areas adjacent adjacent to parks and schools. With all that said, there's two clarifications I'm hoping to hear later on in the discussion. One, how will schools and childcare centers be protected against smoke shops if buffer zones are eliminated from the amendment? We strongly believe that these shops should not be located in your schools or childcare centers where children and families are gathering. And two, if the Rockville Town Square is zone for smoke shops, can we prevent smoke shops from opening in the square itself, where families gather in the green spaces, the fountain, the fountains, and frequenting the library? So thank you again for your time this evening and all your efforts from the staff, the mayor, and council on this important issue. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next we have John Apaya Dufell. This is an online person as well. Please for free, Tom Mute. Yeah, hopefully you can hear me. Sir, can you speak in a mic a little louder? Uh, yep. Hi, can you hear me? Yes. Wonderful. Good evening. Thanks so much for giving me the opportunity to speak. My name is John Apia Duffel. I lived in Rockville for five years. About my first house in Rockville on North Adams Street. Started a family and when it came time for us to move we decided to hold on to our home and rent it out which we've been doing for the past few years. So I am a Rockville landlord and I am here to express my strong position of support for rent stabilization in Rockville. You don't need me to rehash facts and figures I just want to say a few things. Number one, I've spent much more of life being a renter than a landlord, and it's my experience dealing with negligent, unresponsive landlords who were not reigned in by local regulations that moves me to speak on this. Number two, renters are experiencing, have been experiencing a crisis of affordability, not just for months, not just for years, but for well over a decade. And it's long past time for local governments to step up and insist on some sanity. So truly, I want to thank you all for taking the time to seriously take on the issue of rent stabilization and rent protections, because voluntary measures will never get it done. Number three, my wife and I, you know, we're small potatoes. We just have the one property. You all know how economies of scale work. The more properties you own, the more money you make, the greater savings and efficiencies you're able to find to reduce your costs. In other words, the fewer properties you manage, the more expensive it is to manage each one. And you know what? We've been doing just fine with our one property on our one tenant. That's keeping rent low with one modest increase during the past five years, and despite some pretty costly repairs to the unit, we're not suffering. If we're doing okay, the property management firms that you've been hearing from on this issue are doing way better. This narrative that I see promoted that landlords literally a term that comes down from nobility in the feudal system that landlords are going to be forced into dire financial straits by rent stabilization is a complete fiction. I hope this council recognizes that when you hear it tonight and elsewhere. And I hope that you not only approve rent stabilization, but that this measure is one of what I hope will become many sorely needed renter protections passed in the city of Rockville. Thanks so much. Thank you for your time. Next we have Ken Becker, followed by Gunar Gentry. Good evening. My name is Kenneth Bakker and I serve as a general partner in Rollins Park and Congressional Towers. My partner earlier spoke Arnold Polynter. This project was built in the 1960s, comprising again over 1100 dwelling units, funding on East Jefferson streets, congressional lane, and Rollins Avenue. With my partners, and we are second generation stewards of these properties, we take great pride in them, and the markets they serve in Rockville. These markets include working people, trades people, young families, and older retirees. Our rent levels have historically remained well within voluntary guidelines, and older retirees. Our rent levels have historically remained well within voluntary guidelines and often below those and as Mr. Pondler pointed out in the last four years averaging closer to 2.5% a year and that I might add is during that same four years where we saw historic inflation. As these units naturally become vacant, we do major upgrades. We replace the bathroom fixtures and tile work, the kitchen cabinets, the countertops, the appliances, the flooring lighting. This is all to keep the property at a high quality, but such upgrades will prove far more difficult if we can't move those rental rates up to meet some of those investment costs. Over the years, we have continued to upgrade our apartments and our common areas and believe these properties reflect well on us, our community, and the city, and serve this essential workforce housing. We are deeply concerned with the growing sentiment that somehow government control of rents will solve the problem of affordable housing. It simply doesn't work that way. We need the supply and we need the economic environment where we and others continue to invest dollars over time to keep the existing housing stock strong and viable for even our competitors to build new housing. Supply and demand will solve this problem far better than an artificial control will. an artificial control will. And we know that there may be some of our competitors that go overboard and there are those outliers, but we feel strongly that the entire industry and the housing stock for the City of Rockville should not be put in operational jeopardy because of those poor performers. Rent control is an easy and somewhat simplistic concept, but we understand also that people are hurting and that there does need to be some way to bridge that gap. I spent 20 years with the National Housing Partnership. Well, that's me. Anyway, I want to appreciate, and I do appreciate the opportunity to speak with you, and hope that we can continue the dialogue. Thank you. Thank you. I apologize Madam Mayor. They wanted to put me in the screen. Sorry, that's all. No problem. Thank you. Next we have Gunar, a jean jury followed by Cindy, a cake. I just wanted to say thank everyone for honoring the three minutes. If we, if you have more things to say, please email us because we do want to hear from you. Thank you. Madam Mayor, members of the Rockville City Council. My name is Gunnar Ginghry, and I'm here in my capacity as Senior Vice President of Investment and Operations for Common Or Management. Owner and Manager of a 414 unit community on Rockville Pike, which last month hosted mayor and several members of this council during our summer pool party. I'm here to speak out against room control measures that will directly impact our community. As a longstanding Rockfield-based company developing and managing properties here since the 1960s, we take great pride in providing an affordable housing option to our residents. Many of our tenants have enjoyed stable, well-eminentized, and high-quality housing in below-market rents due to our commitment to increases at or below the city's voluntary rent guidelines while they are with us and substantial reinvestments in property and unit renovations, which at turnover lately have been exceeding $30,000 a door. Today, our community encompasses 414 units of naturally occurring affordable housing on 18 acres along Rockville Pike. These units are vital to our community fabric, offering a home to residents whose incomes align with approximately 75% of AMI. However, the proposed regulations, particularly the vacancy restrictions and broader rent control measures, threaten our ability to continue operating as we have for decades. The financial feasibility of maintaining affordable rents in the face of rising operational costs and legislatively imposed capital burdens such as BEPS retrofits becomes increasingly untenable under these new constraints. From a practical standpoint, these regulations also severely diminish our properties attractiveness to investors and lenders and the rolling 23-year exemption fundamentally alters the economic calculus of property ownership. and the rolling 23-year exemption fundamentally alters the economic calculus of property ownership. For properties of any vintage within the county and city, it transforms which should be a straightforward ownership model in something akin to a ground lease valuation, further eroding property values, and undermining the incentive for further investment in rental housing. Worse yet, these measures may force us to reconsider our long-term strategy as we do not operate in a vacuum. We may be compelled to redevelop our communities, potentially displacing many of our current tenants who rely on the housing we provide at our current price point. It's crucial to understand that rent control poses a significant threat to our ability to sustain our housing offering in Rockville. We urge the council to reconsider these measures and explore alternative solutions that preserve affordability while incentivizing continued investment in our community. Thank you for your attention to this critical matter affecting our residents and our community's future. Thank you. I just want quick note. Some of my colleagues may need to step out for a quick bio break. Please note it is not any disrespect to anyone who's speaking, but I want to know that we are human as well. So I just want to give them an out if they do have to do that. But do you want to do that first? No, I want to say go ahead because I think we have a flow going and I want to respect your time since we have a lot of speakers. Thank you. Good evening, Madam Mayor and Council Members. My name is Sandy Peck. I'm the General Counsel of Tower Companies, which has been serving the Montgomery County community for the last 75 years. We have about 1,400 apartments in Montgomery County in the Silver Spring region. But in the City of Rockvilleville we own and operate and manage some office buildings. So we employ as well as how is people in Montgomery County. I want to talk a little bit more about policy today because I have been in the last 25 years most of my practice has been in affordable housing and community development before I came to tower companies. I spent two years with Freddie Mac working in affordable housing and community development before I came to tower companies. It's been two years with Freddie Mac working on affordable housing deals, about $2 billion of housing production that I worked on during my time there. And rent control is, I think it's one of those housing policies that sounds great, but ultimately is the reverse of what you need in your community, which is housing supply. We've had a lot of people come out today to talk about housing supply, and I just want to talk a little bit more of the practical realities of what the challenges are and how to solve them. We have some folks who've talked about homelessness and eviction issues being cost burdened and the ultimate reality of what the housing policy solutions are for things like cost burden is renters assistance when you have means tested programs that focus the assistance to people who need it the most. That is the type of housing policy that will help the people who are in need. Similarly, when you're talking about people who are in the state where they are in an eviction proceeding, there are programs. I know that the state just passed some eviction assistance to provide people with knowledge and awareness of what their rights are. I think that's a really important policy as well. But helping people at the point of eviction is too late to prevent the housing crisis that person that person is experiencing. Usually the thing that precedes the eviction process are things that relate to personal crises that if you had programs that provided more supportive services for people, you'd actually be in the prevention business. And that is really where you want your housing policy to help people. I'll provide some additional information and data for you all to consider, but I did want to just highlight the notion that if the problem is that people cannot afford their homes, the solution is housing supply. It's not rent control. Thank you. Thank you. Mara Greengrass, followed by Patrice Davis. Welcome. Hi, my name is Mara Greengrass and I live in Rockville 2852. I'm testifying tonight on behalf of Jews United for Justice, which organizes over 2,000 Jews and allies across Montgomery County, from about 200 live here in the city of Rockville. We act on our shared values to advance social and economic justice and racial equity in our community. Now, my last rental before becoming a homeowner was actually just down the pike a little bit from where we are right now. My husband and I were able to afford our apartment because we had help from our families, but not everyone has that ability. I hope that with your help, my former neighbors can afford to stay in their homes. Jewish texts are full of conversation, laws, and traditions about the obligations of landlords and tenants, about how homes should be built safely, and about making sure the people can remain in their homes. For example, the prophet Micah, who went so far as to claim that those who seized the homes of others are not only robbing them of their home, but also of their inheritance. All too often, we see people being priced out of their homes and their neighborhoods. Jof J asks that the Rockville City Council support rent stabilization and follow the common sense, data-driven bill at the Montgomery County Council pass last summer, which includes exemptions for new development, capital improvements and fair returns. Making truly affordable housing requires every tool. Yes, we must build more housing. We agree. But that is a long-term solution. In the short term, we also need protections for the 55% of Rockville tenants who are currently rent burdened. We know that without rent stabilization, city-reset residents will continue to be evicted. They will become homeless or simply have to move further away from their jobs and schools. Unstable housing is bad for physical and mental health and it disproportionately affects people who are elderly, who are disabled and children. Most county residents will soon be protected by rent stabilization. This will put the city of Rockville at a disadvantage when attracting and keeping residents and it will harm the people that you serve. We ask of the Rockville City Council support rent stabilization protecting both tenants and landlords following the lead of the bill passed by the Montgomery County Council. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome. Thank you. Welcome. Hello, my name is Patrice Davis and I'm here on behalf of the Unitarian Universalist Carm Cragation of Rockville located on Welsh Park Drive and I'm reading a statement by the Social Justice Committee. We strongly support rent stabilization. I thank Mayor Ashton and the members of the Council for this opportunity to testify. We believe that rent stabilization would improve housing affordability and stability in Rockville. Which in turn would promote racial and economic diversity, help renters stay in their home, and thereby strengthen our community. Ren stabilization would help ensure affordable housing for individuals and families living in Rockville. It was served as a safeguard against housing insecurity and displacement. By protecting tenants from sudden, large increases in rent, thereby fostering stable, vibrant, and attractive neighborhoods. Rent stabilization would provide low and moderate income residents with more predictable rent increases, making it easier for them to manage their budget and stay in their homes. This in turn would contribute to neighborhood stability and social cohesion. Long-term residents are more likely to take better care of their homes, invest in their communities, develop strong social connections, and contribute to their local economy. This would also benefit property owners who would be spared the cost of frequent turnover that some had spoken about today and would also increase property values. Rent stabilization would especially help families with young children. Housing and disability has been shown to have negative impacts on children's health, development and school performance, and renters of color with children are facing the greatest housing hardships. On the other hand, housing stability has a positive impact on a wide range of outcomes for children and families, including academic performance, employment, physical, and mental health. As people who believe in upholding basic principles of social justice and human dignity, we believe that it is important to ensure that housing remains affordable for all segments of our society. Rent stabilization will contribute to the revitalization of both sustainable housing and thriving stable communities. In this era of growing socioeconomic disparities and supposedly competing economic interest, rent stabilization represents a critical wage remote housing, justice, and upholding the principles of human rights, social equity, while also respecting the interests of property owners. Thank you very much. Thank you. Virginia Folson, followed by Susan Kern. Welcome. Good evening. My name is Virginia Folsom. I am a long time resident of Rockville's West End neighborhood. I'm here today to read the testimony of the Reverend Dr. Rebecca Savage, Senior Minister at the Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Rockville, to share her strong support for rent stabilization. Unfortunately, Reverend Rebecca isn't able to attend in person today. So, Reverend Rebecca writes, I thank the Mayor and Council for the opportunity to testify. I am a renter in the city of Rockville, and I have watched firsthand how residents in my community struggle to face skyrocketing rent increases. With about half of Rockville's population being renters and the majority of them cost burdened, meaning they spend more than a third of their income on rent, tens of thousands of Rockville residents live in constant fear of displacement and being priced out of their homes. The current housing situation in Rockville is not only untenable for families and individuals, but it weakens our shared goal to build community so that we can all thrive. The basis of strong communities is stability and the deeper community connections that stable housing provides. Unitarian Universalists believe in and affirm eight spiritual principles, the first of which is the inherent worth and dignity of every person. Rent stabilization upholds this principle by helping people remain in their homes, thus providing residents the ability to lay down roots and contribute their unique gifts to the larger community. Unitarian Universalists also believe in and affirm the principle of justice, equity, and compassion in human relations. Rent stabilization is housing justice. Our most vulnerable communities, predominantly BIPOC, immigrants, seniors, children, people with disabilities, and all working-class families are disproportionately impacted by skyrocketing rent and carry the heaviest burden of housing costs. Rent stabilization will provide needed protection, affordability, and cost predictability that all residents deserve. This policy is critical to helping children stay in their schools and continuity in education is essential for effective learning, the bedrock of future academic and job prospects. This policy is crucial in helping seniors, age and place, rent stabilization for seniors reduces the possibility of homelessness and promote stability. Carrying and investing in the well-being of our children and seniors, our spiritual expressions of justice, equity, and compassion. I humbly urge the mayor and council that pass rent stabilization, not just because it is smart policy, but because it is the right and moral thing to do. Thank you. Thank you. Susan Kern, followed by, can't see the first name. Last name is Brooks. So thank you, Mayor. I live in Rockville. My name is not Susan Kern. It's Susan Kern. So I have the misfortune of being a white woman. Kern speak to the manager, Ms. Kern. So I have to live with that. So I bought my home in my 20s. I had an entry level position and the secret to being able to do that was just when I was born. I was born in the generation where that was normal. We didn't have college debt. The ratio of income to buying a house was reasonable. The other secret that I had is I had generational wealth. My parents weren't rich, but they were middle class, and they were able to help me a little bit to do the down payment. So this is really a social justice issue where young people have a disadvantage, people who have grown up with structural racism have a disadvantage. I see this as a harm reduction thing. We know that Narcan doesn't solve the fentanyl crisis, but it reduces the harm until we have the bigger picture to deal with the harm. I also want to address the issue of the term displacement. And I'm going to give you a story of really what that means. So I knew a young woman. She was in her third trimester. She was living in an apartment with her sister and her mother. The mother, the sister and the husband all worked. She took care of the two nieces four and five and they couldn't make ends meet. So they were evicted. It was all legal. So the police knocked at the door and they had two movers behind them big burly men because they had to move stuff told her to leave. She's on the phone calling her family. She's calling the moving van. The kids are there not understanding. They're crying hysterically and I think what's so heartbreaking is what they were saying. They were apologizing to the movers. They were saying we're sorry. Whatever we did we will never do it again. We're sorry, please don't break our toys. So that is what displacement really means. And I think that, again, this is not gonna solve everything. This is harm reduction. I want you to pass this, but then use all your agency and all your political power to more aggressively solve the holistic thing. That includes housing inventory, but it also includes, we've got college debt, the minimum wages is not a livable wage. All of these things are creating a dynamic so that individuals are being harmed that have done nothing except they were born in the wrong time and maybe the wrong race. So thank you very much. Thank you. Welcome. Thank you. Good afternoon mayor. Good afternoon. Council members. My name is Reverend Lisa Ray Brooks. I am an interfaith minister. I'm also a resident of residences on the lane. I am retired, a retired middle-level corporate executive. I retired as the director of sales operations for AT&T government solutions. I am on a fixed income. And I had an experience last year that put me in a fearful position, one that I've never been in. This position was as a result of having a rent increase of 5.8 percent. And that rent increase caused my actual rent to go up $127 a month, which put me in the position of having to decide whether I was going to eat or leave my home. When I sat down and looked at that, I said, okay, when I lived in, when I had my own home and I opted to take an variable mortgage, variable interest rate. I had the opportunity to have an increase in income and my variable interest rate started at like 3% and went up 1 to 2% each year. So it was affordable. I was able to handle it even with tuition, college tuition for my daughter at that time. It was 20,000 a year. Now it's 40,000 what people are looking at 40,000 so that was still a stretch but I was able to handle it. Now in the situation where I am operating on a fixed income and having an increase of 5.8 percent which is double what I've ever experienced in the past, put me in a position of saying, am I going to have to get movers? Am I going to have to find a new place to live? Am I going to have the wherewithal to do it? And even so, with that, I did have to go to family members in order to get support to have food. The other situation is that with that support, I am now able to stay in my position and this year, their increase hasn't been as high. So my fear has reduced, however, it is not a position that anyone would want to be in. And I ask that we find a solution to allow for the increased housing ability for everyone and to keep it affordable for everyone. Thank you. Thank you. OK. Next person, A. Williams, followed by Sherry Cook. Good evening. Council members, Mayor. I just want to start by saying nearly 59% at the disclosure of 70% of people are paycheck to paycheck. We don't want to constantly be stuck between a rock and a hard place. We want to be able to at the end of the day go to a place called home. How is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness guaranteed as an unalatable rate when we may not possibly have that one day. We need a strong foundation if we're going to be able to build our house from the ground up and I take this metaphor in every sense of the word from our personal development, our health, our education, our finances, our relationships, and our careers. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics reports as of June 12th, Prices and Washington, Arlington, and Alexandria areas as measured by the consumer price index for all urban consumers increase 0.8% over the past two months ending in May 2024. Regional Commissioner Alexander Hall-Bove I think that's her name. Note to the increase in all indexes, excuse me, in all indexes at 0.8% with energy and food at 1.9% and 0.4% respectively, largely due to the higher prices for recreation and shelter. We can all certainly see and feel these statistics at play when we fill our gas tanks so that we can be protective members of our communities, shop at the grocery store to sustain ourselves and our families and pretty much do anything else in between. Unfortunately, we can't control most of these factors at play, but we have to bear the ground of the effects. Right now, a lot of people are at risk of losing their homes, because a few don't see it as such. They see it as rather than that home that we all had that stability, that foundation I mentioned earlier, they see it as a tax haven for their vacant unit or perhaps just a piece of land that they can rent out at an exorbitant price. All of this certainly is not trickling down back into those stark CPI numbers I shared earlier. down back into those stark CPI numbers I shared earlier. While we may not be able to leave all these pressures from citizens of Rockville, the mayor and the council and his body today, they have the ability to pass rent civilisation laws to help protect us. By doing so, this gives the roughly, and forgive my numbers if they're off, 67,000 residents of Rockville, a stronger foundation, one equal to the rest of Montgomery County, home to over 1 million people who have already been granted the same protection that we're seeking with bill number 15-23. I urge the council today to pass run stabilization laws to ensure that all of our neighbors here can stay within our communities and they aren't forced to move away into living the streets. I will also finish off by saying that we're not trying to stop profits for these landlords. You can still do that. Do it within reason. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Just a reminder in the note from staff if you could please know whether you live or work within the city of Rockville. We're welcome Sherry Cook followed by Raphael Hostio. Good evening council members and mayor. My name is Sherry Cook and I reside in the King Farm, Huntington Farm Residents. When basics in life to thrive become a concern for the community members, Houston we have a problem. Like my trusted friend and neighbor in the unit down the hall, a youthful age of 70 has to make a hard decision to drive with a food delivery service, nightly or whenever she's physically able to, to just make $40 and a little under three hours. Imagine the time that we've spent here she may be out right now to come home with $40. Having to make very basic decisions on buying food to put in a fridge or feeding her faithful four-legged companion, my little trusted friend. I know I've shared a little bit about her, but I'll also add about me. Although I pay over 2,000 a month for a two-bedroom one-bath apartment, I still cannot get a work refrigerator. But I'll digress. A full time employee here in the county with a local federal agency, a contributing member to the community. In 2019, I took out student loans from my twins to attend the universities, and I'm a proud parent of two graduates and one who is continuing to get the universities and I'm a proud parent of two graduates and one who is continuing to get her masters. I now have parent student loan debt that I'm not able to even consider thinking about paying about paying back. I too may have to consider leaving my amazing community that brings me everything I value. Just minutes away from my place of employment, safety, family friendly, engaging, and so much more. I too may have to consider moving if the rent increase in October completely takes me out of my comfort zone. I've learned that community brings us a togetherness, especially given our children a place of belonging. We've been hearing that a lot lately since the pandemic about belonging. How do you feel when you're in a community of people who have the same shared values and a place to call home. But I too may have to consider in October that now I may have to move a little further out when I ultimately came here because I was just minutes away from my job and trying to get away from an hour and 15 minute commute out in Bowie, Maryland. So now I may have to consider thinking things differently if it takes me outside of my comfort zone. I thank you for allowing me this opportunity to speak and that you'll really hear us this evening. Thank you. Thank you. I do wanna note, I'm gonna ask Mr. Goddessman, if he could raise your hand. If, Mr. David Goddessman, Daviddisman if he could raise your hand. If Mr. David Goddisman, if he can raise your hand, if there are folks who have concerns or issues in terms of needing help with apartment violations, code violations, things are not working, he can help to get you the contact information for support. I just wanted to make sure that you know that there is a staff member here to help. Rafael Javier Jacio. Lajayo. Followed by Omodolo Williams. Welcome. I think we need translation support. So please feel free to speak and then we'll have a translator speak after. So you'll have your three minutes to speak and then we'll have a translator speak after. So you'll have your three minutes to speak. And then we'll have a translator do it after. Thank you. Muy buenas noches estimados con sejales y elcaldes de esta ciudad. Mi nombre es Rafael Acayo y residente de esta ciudad de Ropey. Hoy vengo a testificar para un ante proyecto de ley de estabilización de renta para Ropey por los siguientes aspectos. for the next aspects. One, this new law would be protecting the inquiries of the increases in the archivalry, which would reduce the risk of the disaster, proposing productivity in costs of living, allowing the inquiries to plan better their finances in a long time. This law would bring stability in the architists that can contribute to a greater social cohesion, since the residents can remain in their homes and our neighbors for more time. At the same time, it can help to maintain a socio-economic mix diverse in our community, avoiding the displacement of its original population by another greater power. With this new law, the Chinese with this financial ability have to spend more on the local economy, benefiting the businesses and services in our city, which this same law of this rentable civilization can help to balance the immobile market, preventing excess trees from getting down and guaranteeing that the archipelago are kept accessible. With this new law and adequate regulations, the responsible properties may have incentives to maintain and improve their properties, ensuring conditions of the adecuated housing for the corners, avoiding abrupt increases and providing more predictable arcilares to the plaza, which can be beneficial for the financial planning of the owners. This new law, to keep the arcilares accessible, it would help reduce poverty and prevent the lack of living, which has significant impacts on public health and security. Jugaría un papel crucial en asegurar la accesibilidad de la vivienda, protegiendo los inquilinos, manteniendo la diversidad económica, informeando una comunidad estable y saludable. economic and implementing a stable and healthy community to finish. I ask this honorable meeting of Councils that prove this speech against the project of the law of the organization of Rockbing to benefit from our city. Thank you very much for your attention. Thank you very much, Mr. President. Now we have a translation. Good evening, dear Mayor and Council Members of City of Rockville. Today I come to testify for a draft in comment stabilization law for Rockville for the following aspects to be exposed. A new law will be protecting tenants from a brutal increase in rent, which will reduce the raise of eviction. It provides predictability in housing costs, allowing tenants to better plan their long-term finances. This initiative will bring stability and brand that will contribute to great social co-ehesion. Since residents can stay in their home and in more neighborhood for longer, at the same time it can help maintain a diversity social-leconomic mix in our community, avoiding the displacement of its original population by another with greater purchasing powers. With this new initiative tenants with financial and stability tend to spend more on local economy, beneficiating businesses and services in more city. This same income stabilization initiative will help balance the real estate market, preventing price bubbles and ensuring that rent and retain access is accessible. With this new initiative and appropriate regulations responsible owners will be able to have initiative to maintain and improve their properties with ensuring adequate living conditions for tenants. Avoiding suddenly increase and providing more predictable rental income in the long term, which can be benefit to the financial planning of their owner. This new initiative by keeping rents accessible will help reduce property and prevent homelessness, which has significant impact in public health and safety. It will pay a crucial role in ensuring the accessibility of housing, protecting tenants, maintaining economic diversity, and promoting high stable and health community. In conclusion, I ask you mayor and council members to approve this proposed reinestabilization initiative in Brockville to benefit or city. Thank you. Welcome. Good evening, Mayor and Councilmembers. My name is Amagamola Williams and I'm here to speak on behalf of the Montgomery County Racial Equity Network, the more network for short. And I'm speaking on behalf of the past restabilization have it approved for the city. So, we are in the midst of racial equity, racial equity crisis that demands immediate attention when we examine affordable housing, the glaring disparities faced by our community of color, both alarming and worrisome. The city's provision of a few hundred, you call it MPDUs and also I was talking about ADUs. It's more of a superficial measure that falls short of addressing the real need of the thousands of renters. That needs a renter protection. The time has come for a decision. We could either adopt a version of rent stabilization or collaborate with the county to ensure that the short insure its effectiveness. Just look at Tacoma Park, for example. Tacoma Park has rent control, their own form of it. People talk about how Tacoma Park have not had any new development in years, decades. But if you look at the Comma Park, there's no room. The city is condensed. It's a big city and it's condensed. There's no space for new development. So you can easily say to Comma Park, for example, that has recontrol, look at them as an example. But if you were to make space, if you were to to invest in to come apart, you have to buy building, buy land, demolish it and create something. But to come apart has been flourishing. I'm using to come apart as an example, because they have their own form of recontrol. Rockville has the opportunity to have their own version of it as well. We're not, it's not like we're doing this out of blue. There's plenty of examples. There's the county. You can work with so many entities. As city leaders, you are responsible for addressing the racial equity crisis head on and responding to the urgent concerns of our community, our future renters, and keeping those to stay here and live here. Please pass restabalization. Thank you. Thank you. I can't quite read the name, but it's an email, Zoe Padak. I think you may have, Zoe may have spoken already. Okay. Grant Sam's followed by Olivia Babowski. Good evening, Mayor, councillors. My name is Grant Sam's. I am a resident of Rockville. I live at 15955 Frederick Road. And I am here to testify in support of rent stabilization with fee controls. I want to thank the mayor and the council for the opportunity to testify today and I support rent stabilization because I have continued to lose long time neighbors in my building to rent increases. My neighbor of two years, Lisa and her dog Coco, who I would always pet as we traded tips on camping spots, moved out six months ago, because she couldn't afford her rent increase. She now lives north of Frederick. Two hours down, the hall going the other way, Tyler and Francisco, who used to be the only ones I got to talk pro cycling with, hit with a rent increase and they moved out. They now live in Texas. For myself, last year's rent increase of 8% made it difficult for me and my roommate to decide whether or not we were going to stay in our unit. Ultimately, we did. And while I'm about a month from getting my next lease and I fear rent increase, I checked my building's website this afternoon for my unit to see what they were going, what they were charging for new tenants, and they listed it at $2,500 a month for a two-bedroom, two-bath unit. If that rate were offered to me, that would represent a 10% increase on top of the 8% increase that I got last year. This is why these increases, or why my building's community, is eroding. You've heard tonight from some about how rent stabilization would be bad for business. But my question to these opponents would be, what if what's good for business is bad for people? What if what's good for business continually displaces families when they can no longer afford even supposedly affordable options? Tonight, you've been told that the vast majority of landlords and developers are ethical, that they raise rents as little as feasibly possible, and then it's just a few bad apples out for excess profit. My question then would be why do they oppose a measure that aligns so well with those spoused beliefs. Tonight, I urge you to consider the totality of our housing and cost of a living crisis. Addressing it will require modernizing zoning laws. Yes, it will require prioritizing the development of housing supply. Yes, but it will also most certainly require passing rent stabilization with fee controls. Thank you very much. Hello, my name is Olivia Bibrasky and I live in Twin Brook. I am squeezing in here to talk about something else by Kshara Stations. Thanks everyone for your patience. I am a member here to talk about something else, bike share stations. Thanks everyone for your patience. I am a member of the Rockville bicycle advisory committee, and I was disappointed to hear at our meeting last week that Montgomery County has decided to eliminate 10 bike share stations from its network. That includes four stations located within the city of Rockville. These include three stations near Shredi Grove and one station in town center. Rockville's principal transportation planner, Brian Barnett, would shared with our back that the county had not communicated with him about these station removals even though they're already underway. He's also not been told whether any communication has gone to the users of these stations. This represents about a third decrease in the Rockville network as we only had 14 stations to begin with. As a Rockville resident on a long time bike share user and as someone who has been asking the city to increase the number of bike share stations in Rockville, I was very disappointed to hear this news. I'm here today to ask the mayor and council to discuss these station removals with the county. I ask that you express disappointment with the station removals, inquire about communication to make sure users and urge the county to explore relocating these stations rather than removing them entirely from the network. If these stations had low usage, the county and city should explore whether any of the stations could be moved to other locations. For example, perhaps some could be moved to the Twin Brook neighborhood which I have long been advocating is underserved by the current bike shared network. The city should also consider how to fill the gaps and micromobility created by the removal of these stations and the neighborhoods where they were located. I encourage the city to consider asking Dockless, Scooter and Bike vendors to deploy to these neighborhoods in the station's absences. Bike Share Usage supports the City's Vision Zero initiative, Bikeway Master Plan and Climate Action Plan. It would be valuable for the city to partner with the county to explore options for these bike share stations before giving up on the stations entirely and the Rockville residents who could make use of them. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Welcome, Alex Basquaz followed by Kush Karad. Good evening. Members of the city and Madam Mayor. I stand before you today not merely as a representative of CASA, but as a voice for the countless immigrants and working class black and brown families who call Rockville their home. These families, our families, are struggling under the weight of ever increasing rents, and their police for stability must not go unheard. CASA serves thousands of Rockville residents through our center right here in this city. Our commitment to keeping our community housed is not just a promise but a reality. Our efforts are vast and tireless and they are making a significant difference. We provide legal representation for those who face eviction due to the inability to pay rent. We work closely with the county and the Department of Housing to connect tenants for vital resources like rental assistance. And we organize tenant unions to hold some of the very landlords that testified here this evening accountable for maintaining safe and habitable living conditions. Despite these endeavors, we find ourselves in a relentless battle against the tide of high rent increases that threaten the very foundation of our community's stability. Our dedicated organizers who walk the streets of Rockville every day hear the cries of renters from King Farm to the Westchester, from East Rockville to the Woodmont and as far south as the Twin Brook Quarter and beyond. They speak of the instability. The grips are lives, a burden felt most acutely by senior citizens and our youth. Across Maryland, including our very own county, the necessity of permanent protections for working-class residents has been recognized. They represent a commitment to the well-being of those who build our communities, teach our children, protect our neighbors, feed our residents, and care for our elders. We too, in Rockville, must rise to this monumental challenge not to be disheartened by the enormity of the task before us, but rather, John's inspiration from it. The path to permanent rent stabilization may be fraught with complexity and opposition. Still, we must not be deterred by the nasaers who say it's impossible. Or, in order to thrive anti-rent gouging protections cannot exist. We must summon the political will, the unwavering courage, and an audacious vision to embrace a future where housing stability and development of deeply affordable housing coexistent harmony. I want to conclude by sharing the words of a great moral teacher. The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members. And I want to believe that this body will rise to the occasion, but that will be up to each individual behind this. Thank you and I urge you to support premieres. Welcome, Kush Karad and David Fallak. Hey all, how are you doing? Hi, my name is Kush Karoud. I'm representing Housing Justice Montgomery, which is a Housing Justice Organization of about 200 renters, about 30 who are living in Rockville, as we speak. I also feel very humbled because I was born in Rockville, so it's very cool to be here with you all. Or last few years, I've been a housing policy analyst working with folks across the country to pass affordable housing legislation and happy to be here to fight back against the housing crisis that we are facing. How do we do it? Our work across the country is not to live in hypotheticals or assumptions, but to be driven by data and evidence, right? And after years of work, we feel like we've created a path of success. And what works is a variety of solutions that work in tandem, housing vouchers, increase housing supply to deeply affordable housing. But one of these solutions is crucial to all of that. And that's run stabilization. Without run stabilization, all else fails. Now I'd love to talk about the benefits of rent stabilization, but today I want to focus on the myths. I'm sure many come up to you and say that this will lead to the destruction of Rockville as we know it, right? But when we write policy, when we write good policy, we need to follow the numbers, right? And I want to focus on two myths today. One, that's going to negatively impact housing supply. And two, that's going to impact housing conditions. So let's start with housing conditions or housing supply. Some say that rent stabilization will lead to a decrease of housing supply. That is untrue. Rent stabilization does not have an impact on the development of housing and construction rates are actually dependent on the local economic market and the credit markets. Big humble jumbo words, right? But we have data that proves this as well. The University of Minnesota did a study and found that there's little empirical evidence that shows that rent control policies lead to impacting new construction. When we look at California's housing production, the six cities that do have rent stabilization actually created more housing units than the ones that don't have rent stabilization. Even in our backyard, the DC landlord lobby has been saying for years that rent stabilization is going to lead to impacting development for decades. Yet, DC is developing more affordable units than ever before. Make it makes sense to me. Right? Now let's talk about conditions. A lot of folks say that rent regulations lead to worse conditions. But actually, it actually has a benefit. When we rent stabilizes, that creates a policy that allows folks to actually be accountable and make their landlords accountable. In DC, 61% of tenants said that with rent stabilization, they're able to find a pathway to laying out their concerns. And those are some things, I see that I'm reaching the end of my time. But I would like to end that is important to follow the numbers, follow the truth, and follow, make sure that the myths that you are hearing are not actively guided. Thank you so much for your time. Okay, thank you all so much. David, follow by Josh Wildridge. I'm David Follick, and I'm a rockville renner at East Jefferson Street and congressional lane. And I'm a teacher in the city of Rockville too. That's two things I'm proud of. And boy, is it high outside, isn't it? These persistent and scorching heat waves are due to the fact that we have destabilized our climate system. In a few weeks I need to locate and secure a new apartment before my lease ends so I can have a better place to live with more affordable rent. This heat wave is hindrance as I travel by foot and public transportation to find a place to live. I invite you to come with me outside in 95 degree weather and go to apartment buildings and look for a place. You the City Council America cannot restabilize the climate system but you can help stabilize our rent so we don't have to go on this heat. According to Census 2020, 45.1% of all housing units in Rockville are rendered occupied. An average of 2.54 persons per rental household, multiply them together. We have over 30,000 people living in rentals in Rockville City. 43.3% of those rental households pay more than 30% of their income on total housing costs. 30% and lower is the standard for affordable housing. And it's probably a lot higher now since the rent gouging feeding frenzy of the corporate landlords started a couple years ago. I have here a letter from the Montgomery County renters alliance that you received from them. I'm not here representing the Render's Alliance and I do not speak for them. I just wanted to add my own comments. They say and I quote, it is unrealistic to believe that constructing new housing is a substitute for adequate renter protections. Well, anyone who rents can here can give you expert testimony just from personal experience that this is true. I look the Milton the new luxury apartments down where I live. Their website today a tiny 475 square foot studio apartment. Their quote best value for 21 month lease is $1,973 for a normal 12 month lease is $2,22 per month. Building more housing will not solve the problem because we know from living here that they build for rich people, not for the rest of us. You can support the health welfare and well-being and protection of the roughly 30,000 of your constituents that live in the city of Rockville and support rent stabilization or you can support their continued stress strain and suffering. I urge you to support rent stabilization rather than throw them out to the wolves. Think about this. If it were your home, what would you like to have happen? Thank you. Welcome, Josh Waldrich, followed by Thomas Jackson. Good evening. I'm Josh Waldrich with the ADRP Group, one of the largest market rate workforce and affordable housing builders in the country opposing any potential rent control in the city of Rockville. Our office is located right here on the edge of the city of Rockville where I also live, not in the city but on the edge. I'm proud to say that I've built over 400 multifamily units in the city of Rockville, just 800 feet from the Shady Grove Metro Station. I'll start off with a pretty sobering statistic. Since the election held in November of 22, only three new multifamily projects have started construction in all of Montgomery County. You might have guessed it. The FESDA and North FESDA, where the rents will be between $3,000 and $4,000 per month. What's gotten lost in these rent control conversations for the past two years is the building industry that I represent, most of whom are immigrants that will be permanently harmed by this legislation. My company and our industry have created hundreds of thousands of jobs and affordable units for immigrants. At this moment, as our current suburban Maryland projects are concluding, I'm having those difficult conversations with our workers and asking them to start commuting in hour each way over two hours a day from their families to start building the housing that we need here in Rockville, instead over in Northern Virginia. Rockville residents deserve those jobs and new homes just as much as Fredder County or Northern Virginia. Housing builders actually have very little in common with landlords. However, when you impose price controls downstream, the unintended consequence is it decimates the capital markets where I go to borrow money for our projects for the financing of new housing. The last two years have completely wiped out the housing pipeline in MoCo. You don't have to believe me on that, the data speaks for itself, but I'm not actually here to debate rent control tonight. The city's owner board shows that the rent increases in Rockville 1.7% per year as the median increases over two decades that hasn't even come close to keeping up with the DC inflation for the DC or the DC area meeting income. The City of Rockville has done its job effectively and should be congratulated furthermore. Montgomery County's own analysis consistently warns that rent control will one, reduce the overall supply of units to reduce economic mobility, three, increase rents, four, not benefit the people who really need it, and five leads to deterioration of quality. FY2024 just concluded last week, it'll take a few months to get the final data, but we appear headed to a staggering $35 million reduction in transfer and recordation taxes in Montgomery County, marking the complete destruction of the contributions the county to the county that the revenue source is made by our commercial real estate industry. According to the folks that are here today, there are tens of thousands of cost burden renters in the county. I can't help but think of all the out of town landlords we could have pursued for $35 million. Or covered $35 million of moving expenses to get our senior residents into better units. How many vulnerable renters we could have protected with $35 million. Or near and dear to my heart, how we leverage that 35 million into hundreds of brand new lie-tech units for seniors and families have we simply left the capital markets alone. Thanks for everything that you guys do. Thank you. Welcome. Thank you for the opportunity to be here this evening. My name is Thomas Jackson and I am a renter in Montgomery County. But that's not Rockville. I am testifying on behalf of the Montgomery County young Democrats in support of rent stabilization for the city of Rockville. Rinters are experiencing a lack of stability and predictability for the cost of their homes, leading to many residents being pushed out and facing eviction. We've heard tonight about economics from the perspective of housing investors, but pricing residents out of their homes and the city itself hurts all sectors of Rockville's economy, and more importantly, it hurts our neighbors and our loved ones. I've worked in housing, helping people get off the streets and into sustainable living spaces. As a public health professional, I recognize that housing is a human right and a critical social determinant of health. Rent stabilization is needed to ensure that people have access to affordable housing in Rockville with market stability. The Montgomery County Council passed bill 15-23, which puts a cap on annual rent increases. We the Montgomery County Young Democrats urged the city of Rockville to adopt a similar type of legislation and pass a rent stabilization law in its strongest form. There was a time that I personally faced eviction, not that long ago, because the lack of rent control made it impossible to contend with the soaring cost of housing. And I'm not alone. Rockville is home to some of the brightest and most talented young people with all the potential in the world to do great things for this city and continuously make us proud. But without stable rent, we force them to make an impossible decision. Do they stay here and risk unstable housing or even homelessness? Or did they leave behind the city they love in search of a place that allows them to thrive indoors? Montgomery County Young Democrats understand that landlords have the right to earn a living. But in a decent and fair society, residents should have a right to equitable and predictable housing market changes as well. Renters make up over 45% of fraud-vill residents and they already tend to pay higher percentages of their income on housing than do homeowners. While renters do have the power to file complaints about rent increases, many people are unaware that they have this right or lack the knowledge to navigate that process. Further, there is no guarantee that their complaints would even be heard or addressed in a reasonable way. Rent instability impacts people of all ages, but it especially impacts young adults and elderly retirees with an even more disparate impact on minoritized communities. Rent stabilization would provide necessary solutions to the disproportionate and inequitable rent increases occurring throughout the county. Montgomery County young Democrats urges that the city of Rockville follows suit of the Montgomery County Council and pass a rent stabilization law that applies directly to the city. Thank you all for your time. Thank you. Welcome, Aileen Klein followed by David Mullins. Okay, Aileen is not here. Did we hear from David Mullins? The next person after that would be Liz Krueger? Perfect, I see you. Thank you. Sorry. All right, good evening. Mayor and council, thank you for hearing. My testimony, my name is David Mullins. While I went to Frost and Wooten, I live in Gavisburg, but I'm here tonight on behalf of the Montgomery County Renters Alliance, where I serve as the outreach director. We are testifying this evening to voice our continuing support alongside the continuing efforts of our friends and allies for meaningful rent stabilization legislation to be passed as soon as possible in the city of Rockville. We appreciate the mayor and council including rent stabilization discussion on the agenda for tonight. Look forward to what we hope will be a robust, good faith conversation that remains fully focused on concrete next steps that lead to the imminent drafting of legislation. Thank you for receiving our more detailed written testimony that I just want to touch on a few highlights of tonight. Part of the reason we submitted that testimony was some of the troubling assertions that we've been hearing tonight from representatives of the landlord developer industry about things like rinse stabilization will lead to decreased housing supply and deferred maintenance. So we want to address those. And again, we should address them in detail in writing but tonight just a touch on But quickly over over more than a decade We've established grassroots community outreach education and policy development and as such renters aligns as well position to address Concerns about housing supply and deferred maintenance from a seasoned perspective It's backed up by the real-world data that we encounter folks in our eviction prevention work, that we do in partnership with Montgomery County. Evidence shows that overall market conditions, interest rates, cost of materials, and zoning have much more influence over new housing supply than rent regulations, especially in a high demand market like the one that we're in. We're pleased to continue to bring examples to the discourse of jurisdictions that places in Massachusetts and New Jersey where rent regulations have been shown to have negligible effect on housing supply. But unlike many folks in the landlord developer community, we do not want to overdo relying on cherry-picked correlations and just get into a contest of comparing those, because as Mr. Williams from the Moore Network hinted at with the Tacoma Park, you can lose a lot of context in those kind of comparisons and discussion. The kind of context you can lose, if you miss the force for the trees, are more troubling market indicators that aren't captured in industry subsidized studies. Things like, it used to be a given that a long-term tenant was good for business. Now we see, we used to see a second year of a two-year lease would be offered for less, for a good rent paying tenant. Now we see often the second year is a significantly higher increase in the first year. To us, this is no doubt evidence of a market desperate for guardrails to protect tenants from price gougers and bad actors. One more, I'm running out of time here, so we'll say that on the myth that the building maintenance will suffer, Montgomery County wisely, these things go hand in hand, and Montgomery County wisely chose to address that as part of the stabilization regime through the troubled properties list. Thank you for your time this evening. Thank you. The next three speakers will be Liz Fougger, Lisa Reed, followed by Tiffany Kelly. Hi, good evening. My name is Liz Krueger and I'm the Director of Homeless Services for Interfaith Works and I am privileged to be here tonight to speak on behalf of IW in support of rent stabilization in Rockville City. So we have heard the impactful testimony from many people tonight that are hurting because of the increasing rent prices in Rockville City. That is certainly something we have felt at Interfaith Works, our Essential Needs Center, just down the street on Twin Brook Parkway, is every quarter seeing increasing numbers of Rockville City residents coming for rental and utility assistance. In my department and homeless services, I was devastated to recently learn that in our supportive housing program we are no longer serving any families in Rockville City. And this is because they've been priced out. We have not been able to place them based within the voucher limits and they've endured tremendous amount of discrimination in the application process as far as income requirements. And this has been devastating to us. I remember, I've been with Interfaith Works for over 12 years. I remember when we served many families in the Rockville City limits and they thrived. I'm thinking of one family in particular, a mother, a single mother, an immigrant from South America, who had three children and she worked at Best Buy, worked many hours to build a life for her children and she did it well. She did it effectively and she did it with her neighbors. And I thought one of the coolest things was that her neighborhood and where she took her kids to swim lessons where her kids went to school, the parents were teachers. They were doctors, they were government officials, they were lawyers. It was incredibly socioeconomically diverse. And that is one of my favorite things about Rockville City historically is that there is mixed income neighborhoods that in my opinion are a cross section of American history. They serve to de-concentrate poverty, they foster safety, and they empower socioeconomic and racial diversity in a very meaningful way, and that is so important to our sense of community and community building. And I think that this is what I fear and at IWWe fear, we may lose that. And it's the conceit of us as leaders, not anybody here. It's the conceit of me as a leader. I'll say that we think that what we say and do is so critical as an agent of change. But I actually think that the most important thing we do is we cultivate meaningful relationships between diverse populations. And that is the function of democracy that makes it work. So I think there's just larger implications and I just I really want to emphasize that they hope that's a part of this conversation for what it will look like if we like if we price out diversity and we change our communities here forever. Thank you. Thank you. Could you Sir Reed follow by Tiffany Kelly, then Jonathan Robinson? Good evening. And thank you Mayor Ashton and members of the council for affording me this time to speak. My name is Lisa Reed. I live in the Stone Ridge hungard for neighborhood. I'm a landlord and I'm in support of rent stabilization. I own a house and I rent a room and that's what makes me a landlord. And I do that because I'm cost burdened. I couldn't afford my mortgage if I wasn't renting out this room. And the problem is in Montgomery County, but even in Rockville, it's worse that the housing cost are just out of reach for people that don't earn six figures at least twice over. I recently retired and I am going to have to sell my house at some point because I'm going to run out of retirement funds and I don't know where I'm going to go. I mean I've got a couple of years before this is going to happen but you know by in ten years I'm gonna have to find affordable housing on the rental market and it's not there. And when I leave not only will I be looking for rental housing the two people that live in the house with me are gonna be looking for rental housing. I raise three boys in this county, they can't afford to live in it. They all move down to the county. So rent stabilization, affordable housing means that people can live on a regular income and not be cost burden. And that's not true in this county. And so there's a lot of change that needs to happen. And rent stabilization is part of that. Thank you for letting me speak. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Tiffany Kelly, welcome, followed by Sergio Yango. Sorry, Jonathan Robinson and then Sergio. Welcome Tiffany. Good evening, Mayor Ashton and Council members. I really don't have anything prepared to say, I think you've heard a lot tonight. I'm a person that's a descendant of generational poverty who is now solidly middle class. I just got here maybe three or four years ago. And one thing I know about people that are in the middle class, there is little to no help for them. Almost every benefit program we have is based on income and we just don't qualify. The scariest thing I ever did was going from poverty to middle class. There is no help for people like me. If we, if something happens, if we get sick, minimally, risk stabilization will affect people like me. More than any other program you could possibly build. Everything else is based on income. As I sit in my role as a person that reviews grants for the city of Gathersburg at the federal level and at the county level, there is a trend that I'm noticing. Every organization that helps people to weather storms is running out of money faster. And it's something is happening here that we're not paying attention to. We are running out of ways to really help people in a way that's sustainable. We have got to do something that is going to be swift, that is going to help everyone. Not just the very poorest of the poor, they do need help, but people like me that are not eligible for any program, rent stabilization is that thing. We have got to consider everyone in this county. I'm an anti-poverty advocate, that is the work that I do, but I live in fear every day of what if I get sick, there's nothing for me. What happens if I can't weather the storm? And as a person that has a mortgage, I'm in better shape than most people. I contribute to my community in ways you cannot imagine. And I'm able to do that because there was a time as I worked on my degrees. I had rent that was affordable. That's the only reason that I can contribute. When I was working two or three jobs just to live, my children were unparanted. And we're wondering what's going on with our children and we're wondering what's happening to our communities. People cannot survive. They can't parent their children. Where does that leave our future? There's so much that we're not considering when we think about what is the good that can come from capping rent increases. People get to live and be contributors to society as a whole. And I am so lucky and so grateful after listening to these stories. My path has led me there. But stories like mine are becoming fewer and far between. We really need you to cap these rent increases. If you want the community that you want to have, you've got to do something differently. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome, Jonathan Robinson, Palabar Sojim Yango. Good evening, Mayor Ashton, members of the Rockville City Council. My name is Jonathan Robinson, and I, along Ashton, members of the Rockville City Council. My name is Jonathan Robinson, and I, along with my wife and two-year-old son, with another on the way in October, I'm proud to say, are four-year residents of Hungerford. Today, I come to you not just as a Rockville parent, but as an advocate for an even more vibrant and thriving Rockville by encouraging expanding the housing supply in our area in our region. Outside of my full-time job, I am the chair and co-founder of Affordable Maryland Pack, where we're dedicated to making jurisdictions all over the state more affordable for all current and future residents. I'm also a board member of Greater Greater Washington, a nonprofit that works to advance racial, economic, and environmental justice in land use transportation and housing throughout Greater Washington. I would like to start my comments today by saying point blank that Roth's Ratville must protect renters from price gouging and substandard housing. But in doing so, we shouldn't enact policies that simultaneously reduce the amount of new housing being built in Ratville, our most effective tool for reducing housing costs for all residents. We must recognize that rent stabilization doesn't solve the root cause of high home prices and rents. We simply don't have enough housing for everyone who wants to live here, and the only way to solve that problem is to build more housing. When rent stabilization measures have been implemented in jurisdictions all over the world, and including in our own region, they often hinder necessary economic development and revitalization projects, such as what our fantastic city staff are proposing in the town center master plan. Put simply rent stabilization laws make it much more difficult, especially in the current interest rate environment, for the vast vast majority of housing projects that don't get significant public subsidies to get financing and needed investment dollars. Rents stabilization makes it harder to build the new units that attract businesses, foot traffic, and jobs that support the services, amenities, and programs we pride ourselves on in Rockville and Montgomery County. Sadly, we can already see this happening in our region. After implementing relatively strict rent stabilization laws, both Prince George's and Montgomery County lag behind the region as a whole when it comes to building new housing, something I desperately don't want to see happen here in Rockville. I urge the council to prioritize increased housing production and economic growth alongside thoughtful protections so that we can create the Rockville we all want, one that's both affordable and thriving for all current and future residents. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Welcome. Before I get started, I would like to thank Mayor Ashton and member of the Rugby City Council of Giving Me the opportunity to testify today. My name is Sejinyengo. Member at large of the Encliffe-Tenen Association, also known as the ETA. I live in a complex of three buildings, which old 119 residents in White Dog of Silver Spring. The ETA have many tenants who live in the enclave that have been frustrated of management who have tried to increase their rent, thinking they did not know where to turn for assistance. Thank God, many tenants had our information and asked us for help. Due to run stabilization, we were able to assist their tenants because management was still trying to push on lawful increases onto residents who cannot afford such drastic changes. I am here to show that the ETA is here to stand in solidarity with Rockville residents and united we use to mayor and council to pass rent stabilization. Rent establishes an M's to limit rent increases for existing tenants potentially making housing more affordable and preventing displacement due to raising rents. This can be especially helpful for low and middle incomes residents. Senior and pupil who fixes incomes. Rents stabilization can provide tenants with more predictable housing costs. Allowing them to budget more effectively and fill for secure and the living situation. This stability can contribute to a stronger sense of community. In closing, I would like to say that by making his harder for landers to significantly raise rents, rent control can help prevent displacement. Where residents are forced to move due to rent increases, they can afford. This can be disruptive to people's lives and negatively impact neighborhood. The ETA will continue to stand side by side with the resident of Rockville to make sure Restabilization pass. We will also like to extend a special thank you to Councilmember Zola Shoe. Thank you. Thank you. And Kecing followed by Patty Gentry. Good evening. My name is Ann Kecling and resident of the Huntington at King Farm. Dear Mayor Ashton and Council members, two months ago I testified before the Council in support of rent stabilization. Since then it's become even clearer to me just how urgently we need it. As I shared with you, my husband and I lived at the Huntington at King Farm apartments in Rockville for five years. During that time, our rent for a two-bedroom, two-bath apartment with a loft has increased by 20%. Most of that since the pandemic rent expired. My husband receives only minimal social security benefits as income. We are, for all intents and purposes, a one-income household, but my annual 2.5% salary increase haven't cut pace with the Huntington's rent hikes. To put this in a larger context, a report from Moody's analytics last year found that the typical American renters now rent burdened, meaning that the average rent is 30% of the medium US income. In 2019, before the pandemic, renters with the medium income spent 27.2% of their income on the average rent. Today, our rent is 35% of our present income, placing us firmly in the rent burden category. As rents have continued to skyrocket, the need for protections for tenants has become critical. Not just for me and my husband, but for residents whose income is nowhere near enough to afford safe housing in this city. Research shows that low-income communities and communities of color disproportionately rent their homes. If high rents and subrenonflation continue to suppress economic mobility for so many of our residents, we risk losing the diversity that makes Rockville such a vibrant place to live. Without a rent cap, there's little that stands between us and an even more burdensome monthly rent payment. It is reasonable to assume that the same holds true for all renters in the city of Rockville. I urge you to protect tenants by passing a rent stabilization bill as soon as possible. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Haddy Dentry followed by Nadeba. Welcome. Hi, good evening. My name is Davora. I'm going to be reading testimony on behalf of Ms. Patricia Gentry this evening. She's not able to make it. I'm also a tenant that pays over 35% of my income on rent, but I'm reading another person's testimony tonight. My name is Patricia Gentry. I'm a resident of Rockville, Maryland, and someone who values service, like you, on the City Council, and the Rockville Mayor. As I serve as a volunteer leader for Potomac Conservancy and direct volunteer engagement for the Northeast, for the leukemia and lymphoma society. And I support rent stabilization. I want to thank Mayor Ashton and the members of the City Council for the opportunity to send written testimony and support of rent stabilization and thank those who have helped accommodate my testimony especially Rebita. I hope you all had a chance to read Matthew Desmond's book, Poverty by America. He does a good job bringing research together around the impacts of issues that affect people in this country. He writes in part about the impact of the cost of rent has had on poverty levels. He notes that rent has more than doubled over the past two decades, rising much faster than renters' incomes. We've heard this in many stories tonight, and this leaves families in imbalance. Personally, I've seen this to be true. I moved to the DC area in 2006, and I rented since then, living in the District of Columbia, Arlington, and in Rockville, and several apartments in each of these locations. In each apartment, I could live there for a year or two, and then the rent would get too high, and I would need to move. Living in this area on a non-profit salary was from the start a balancing act. Now I live in Rockville, again, and for the past three years, I have had the opportunity to live in a place that does not practice run spikes each year when I need to resign my lease. This is a choice my landlord has made but this is not the situation for many of my neighbors. For me this has been life-changing. For my family too I've been able to pay off student loans, save for a down payment on a house, put funds towards a Maryland 529 and even just take care of everyday expenses without the stress of not being able to cover my rent. And I want this for others too. Being able to pay for rent without the impact and other areas of your life is a necessity. People should not have to choose between paying for food and paying for rent, getting your car fix and paying for rent, not knowing whether you're going to sleep just because you can't pay the rent. Rent needs to be stabilized, so people have an opportunity to shift from making it day-by-day to being able to plan for the future. Thank you for the time to read Ms. Patricia's email and listen to this testimony and figure consideration. Thank you very much. Thank you. The day ball followed by Dan Reed. Good evening, my name is Neri Bar. I'm a former residence of Rockville, but now I live in Bedester. I'm here today to join my fellow volunteers from every day can can blessing on Montgomery County House in Justice to support the rent state delays on the project. Like I said, I was a former resident. I used to live on Gibbs Street here, down the street. And the reason why I moved to Montgomery County from Rhode Island, I had that the county was very good for high school because my son was supposed to go to high school. So I moved down here, but ever since I moved here, I felt home, but it was very difficult for me because we've been displaced twice. I've been homeless. I experienced my homeless from Rhodeville here. We live here for a year and we move to Germantown. Now I live in that ester. Like I say, but I remember after my graduation in 2003, I had a crossing that was living here in Maryland. She requested me to move here. I'm like and I told her I cannot move to Maryland because I have Maryland is very expensive. But maybe it was a calling for me to move to, and I told her, I cannot move to Maryland because I have Maryland is very expensive. Or maybe it was a calling for me to move to Maryland and I found myself here in the year 2015 after living in Washington, D.C. for nine months. Like I say, my living experience of homelessness and I urge the council to support the bill for real stabilized days. Because it displays families and it displays mine for over seven years now. Excuse me. Yeah, seven years now since I moved here. And the last experience I had, it was so hard breaking because I've been homeless for seven months, hoping in and out of hotels. And it affected me so much that I can't even afford to secure a job. And I lost my daughter to a friend because she has to move with her friend. I'm staying with my son. It's very hard. And I know how we felt, especially people of color and the minority like immigrants. And I fell in love with Rockville so much so that I don't want to move away from the DMV area. This is the reason why I'm here tonight to support this bill. And I hope I am very hopeful that things will change. And I think the Rockville will really find them want to find a very colorful environment because like I say I live here before but I notice that there are so many shops that have closed down and I think the reason being if the residents enables cannot afford to pay for the rent or food they cannot go to the shop to support the businesses and I don't think Rockville Council would like to see businesses to go out of the Rockville because maybe you guys know or not but people are saying that Rockville is very beautiful and it's because of the convenience. Thank you. Thank you very much for your time. Appreciate it. Dan Reed followed by Brian and Lou. Good evening. My name is Dan Reed. I serve as the Regional Policy Director for Greater Greater Washington. We're a nonprofit that works to advance regional economic and environmental justice and land use transportation housing throughout the DC area. I sent my written comments in this morning and it's late, so I'm going to keep it short. You know, six years ago, I moved to Rockville and rented an apartment off a Rockville pike. I loved it. I loved living here. I wanted to stay here. My then partner and I got served a 30% rent increase. That was $700 a month. And five years ago, I moved out of Rockville. That is to say, you know, rent stabilization is a really powerful tool to stop displacement. It keeps people in their homes, near their families, near their schools, job opportunities, and loved ones, et cetera. But it is as Cookie Monster would like to say, sometimes food. It is part of a larger solution for housing affordability and the housing shortage and housing crisis we have in this region. We need more supply. My understanding is the mayor and council are looking at a variety of different solutions right now, including rent stabilization, increased subsidies, and increased supply. I ask and encourage the mayor and council to follow all of those things together. And we look forward to working with you to make that happen and making Rockville the kind of place that everybody wants to stay in and come to. So thank you and have a good night. Thank you. Brian Anlou, followed by Kyle Sultaz. Brian Anlou with the apartment office building association of Metropolitan Washington, also known as Aeoba. Aeoba represents the owners and managers of about 70% of the counties, multifamily housing stock. I'm here to provide you all some background on the factors impacting rent increases and the perils of rent control, some of which you've already heard today, but they're worth restating. First, some of the largest increases you've been hearing about don't present a complete picture. Some of the largest increases that have been cited are for month to month leases, which provide tenants with more flexibility, but they pose greater risks to housing providers that must be accounted for and then henceforth are higher increases. Other large increases are due to the expiration of concessions like first months free rent or something like that. And then there's others that are due to large capital investments in a property. Many more capital investments will be needed to comply with state and local mandates, including building energy performance standards. That's a mandate to reduce energy consumption and help reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Those, complying with BEPS, is estimated to cost 20 to 60,000 per unit under the county's rent stabilization law. Some of those costs are completely unrecoverable, meaning you can't finance them. And the energy offsets from putting in those improvements isn't enough to offset the cost of the improvement either. So how do you build, how do you comply with these mandates? Other state and local mandates include fire safety improvements estimated in the cost tens of thousands per unit for buildings that have outdated fire safety improvements, estimated in the costs tens of thousands per unit for buildings that have outdated fire safety systems. And then other costs are operating on the operating side. They include double digit property tax increases, either from the county or from rising property tax assessments, double digit rent annual property insurance increases, and double digit utility rate increases. Even so, inflation adjusted rent increases are flat as indicated by figure eight in the staff report. This suggests that we don't have a rent increase problem. It's a problem with wages failing to keep up with the cost of living. And a supply and demand problem, which brings me to the perils of rent control. Montgomery County and Prince George have instituted some form of rent control and have seen fewer new developments since doing so. And some of the projects that have moved forward are heavily government subsidized, that's to say they're not conventionally financed and they wouldn't otherwise happen if not for government intervention. It's not just new development, multifamily sales are down to 50 to 90 percent since 2002, hurting county and transfer and remediation tax revenues, that the county depends on to fund new school construction and affordable housing. And the properties that are selling are often being sold at a discount. 8,300 flats in Bethesda just sold. That's the building with the whole foods. It sold at a nearly 40% discount from its previous high. Some of that is due to market forces and the regulatory environment that the building owners operating in. And when compared to Virginia, investment is agnostic on where to get the best return. Right now, the one of Virginia is the best return. So we hope that Rockville will be a haven for new development investment. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome Kyle Sultez, followed by R Ready and then Hana Wade. Good evening mayor councilmembers and fellow residents. I am Kyle Saltez and I'm here to represent myself from Saltez Company which is a corporate resident in the city of Rockville for the past 25 years. We are not landlords, we do not own any housing units. We're not developers. We're surveyors, planners, and engineers. We appreciate the opportunity to address the important issue of rent control in Rockville. We've knowledge and share the commitment to addressing the housing needs in our community. Affordable housing is a critical issue that requires comprehensive and multifaceted solutions. However rent stabilization while well-intentioned can have unintended consequences that may hinder development and growth. It can create a distance incentive for developers to invest in new housing projects which are crucial for meeting our community in new housing projects, which are crucial for meeting our communities' growing housing demand. Limiting rental income can reduce the funds available for property maintenance and improvements, potentially leading to a decline in the quality of housing over time. The construction of new housing units is essential to alleviate the housing shortage, and restrictive rent controls could de deter new developments. Developers may choose to invest in neighboring areas with fewer regulations leading to slower growth and fewer housing options in Rockville. It is important to consider policies that encourage development while ensuring affordability rather than implementing measures that might stifle growth. There are various strategies to address affordable housing without the drawbacks associated with rent stabilization. We advocate for increased investment in affordable housing projects, incentives for developers, to include affordable units in new developments and partnerships with nonprofit organizations. Providing tax incentives, grants, and streamlined approval processes for affordable housing projects can attract developers and ensure a steady supply of new housing. We urge the Council to consider a balanced approach that involves collaborations with developers, housing experts, and the community. By working together, we can create innovative solutions that address the housing needs of our residents without compromising development and growth. We are committed to being part of the solution and look forward to contributing to a comprehensive strategy that benefits everyone in Rockville. Thank you for considering our perspective. We believe that by fostering an environment conducive to development and growth, we can effectively address the housing needs of our community. We appreciate your leadership and dedication to finding solutions that work for all residents of Rockville. Thank you. Thank you. Are ready, followed by Hannah Wad, a wait? Wall. Thank you. Yes. Please join us. Thank you for granting the time. Mayor Monique, our county council members. I have lived in Rockville in 1988 when I got married to John Jay Reddy and I we lived in the the choir side apartments and we couldn't get a reference because now we are divorced but I wanted to ask you that later on when after divorce I petition a certificate of eligibility to live because I couldn't afford, because he said we can afford this house, so I had to leave the house. So I rented another house and started renting. So after divorce, so certificate, we own a house earlier in Gate Dersburg, but we lived in Rockville in 1988. So I wanted a certificate saying that we have lived and be good paying renters, but we couldn't get that certificate because it has changed the ownership of the property. But I wanted to say, and I made a copy for this, I was very proud to have lived with a city of Rockwood certification of the MPD unit, which is good for the renters. And we wanted to say that the applicant name about has met the income requirements of 1 in section 11 of the regulations for the City of Rockville, moderately priced dwelling unit program, and is therefore eligible to participate in a moderately priced housing offer. So it tells you the income. So when you show this to the renters this program, which is the motor lip price unit, and that we can go and then I said, well, I'm going to go to the city of Rockford and update because this is an all certificate. And when I'm saying I'm grateful that the city of Rockford has granted the renters this program, which is the motor lip price unit, and that we can go and then I said, well, I'm grateful that the City of Rockford has granted the renters this program which is the moderately priced unit and that we can go and then I said well I am registered with the City of Rockville and my income has been verified so therefore when I go to the MPD units at Fenestra I will be able to pray a little less because the current prices of normal pricing of the rental properties are very high. So let's say 1,800, but with this it would be like 1,300. So maybe this would be good for the rental stabilization law that perhaps a little parable says one of the options will be for these renters that cannot afford to try the different options like morally priced units and other discounts for senior citizens. Now I have, I am a senior citizen now and there are some and they provide you a property same of Goma County that says there are total units in this zip code and there is total income units, 121. So they have the limits. But when you call, they say, we don't have any more MPD units available. So we are suffering of MPD units available because that gets people want to pay less, of course. And then on this would be a good program that, and I'm petitioning today, if you can enter a program saying that MPD unit program will be good to buy and you can use it not all in all Montgomery County. So you can go to Rockville, Gates, other cities, and then I will petition the Council and Tom Mayor, Ashton, Monique Ashton, if you can restore this program because when you go and you don't show that certificate, they don't treat you very well. So what's your income? So I think it would be better and that's all I wanted to petition today. Thank you for granting. I hope that all of you had a restful Fourth of July. I had been undergoing a lot of abuse at home. Thank you so much. Please. Thank you. This was very welcoming. I love your pictures and with your name. Thank you for coming. Thank you so much. We appreciate everyone's testimony. We wanted to salute for Father July, but they said that we're from through. Thank you. Thank you very much. And we do have to go on to the next speaker. I apologize. Thank you. Hannah. Hi. Welcome. Hello. My name is Hannah Wald. I live in Woodley Gardens. I've actually been a homeowner here for almost a decade and I'm a member of the Maryland Poor People's Campaign. So you may wonder why is a homeowner testifying in support of rent stabilization? And it's because of some of the things I worry about. I have a six-year-old child and I worry can his teachers afford to live here in Montgomery County. Will he be able to afford to live here in Montgomery County or in Rockville when he grows up? Because I see a lot of young people, they can't afford the rental prices here. And when my husband and I get too old for our house with stairs, we have to sell it, we'll be able to afford to live here. And you know, for us, hopefully that's at least a couple of decades down the line. But there's a lot of people here, especially our most vulnerable people, you know, immigrants, seniors, low income and poor folks, for whom, you know, they're housing affordability concerns are more immediate, they're not thinking about when their kids move a lot, you know, because the rental prices keep driving them out. They may get evicted. They can't stay healthy because they don't have a safe place to sleep. And you know, there's no public safety when you don't have a safe place to go home to. And your kids can't focus on their education You know if they don't have a home if they've you know unstable or cost-bird you know unstable or evicted and You know their parents aren't there maybe because they're working 60 plus hours a week to keep roof over their heads so without affordable stable housing nothing in society works the way that it's supposed to. Because, you know, people can't stay healthy, people can't stay safe, kids can't focus on their education. So, if we care about all of those things, one of the things that we're going to need, we'll be there sooner rather than later, is rent stabilization. So I hope you all vote to pass the rent stabilization bill. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have two more people. Judy, I don't have a name. So if you can please select, please come up. Followed by. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Welcome. No, yes, I can proceed. I want to start off by saying, I want to start off by saying my stepdad has been in the emergency room today since 10 a.m. and I don't want to fucking be here. I'd like to read my neighbor's statement since they had to go to work tomorrow at 3 a.m. Therefore, this is Michelle. I was fortunate enough to have my parents pay tuition at Job Hopkins University. I did the combined bachelor's and master's program, graduated with honors and work at one of the top 10 pharma companies on the planet. With all that, I still pay more than half my take home pay for rent. And that's after checking rates every two hours for the past three months before finally applying to our apartment Boulevard 44. Also our neighbor Natasha got a 15% increase and is moving out of Rockville this week. Now, my turn. I support rent stabilization because my husband and I moved to apartment building 44 Boulevard 44 about two years ago. We have cultivated an incredible community here, more so than any other neighborhood we have lived in before. We were actually thinking about growing old here, but what a fucking stupid dream. Unfortunately, Boulevard 44 could give a flying shit about any of that. Boulevard 44 doesn't care about cultivating community and hates caring about our safety. That's to do with like the fact that half the buildings fire alarm systems don't even fucking work. And the AC, there are also real fucking cheap scapes and certain levels don't get to actually have AC and it's really fucking annoying and so these weeks have been absolutely terrible anyways many of my neighbors have been forced to leave Rockville because of the hike and rent. Nandos to say it's like it's a Monday no one wants to be here all of you in front of me don't give a fuck about this community and what any of these people have to say this is a lot of time it's falling upon time. It's falling upon deaf ears. It's falling upon deaf ears and you could give a shit. I have two goals now and it's either to commit suicide before I become homeless in the US or to move to Spain. We'll see what happens first. I hate all of you just like I hate all the landlords of Lovar 44 and I hope you all get heatstrokes Sorry I just wanted to say I know this is a very emotional time and there's a lot of personal stories to be shared We do want all people to be able to watch this Children adults and so we just asked the people referring from curse words if you would please have lodged thank you. I'll call Josh for interjecting that American. That's okay Dr. Miles I appreciate that it helped to emphasize the point I appreciate it. All right we have one more speaker I believe welcome. Welcome. Hello, my name is Frank Fritz. I live in Greenbelt, Maryland. I formerly lived in Silver Spring, and I work here in Rockville. I would love to live here in Rockville, but that is not an economically feasible option for me at this time. So my salary, I work in this community, I drive 40 minutes, sometimes 50 minutes, I know folks in other traffic on the beltway, on the ICC. I drive a long way for a good job here in Montgomery County and I drive home to Prince George's County and I'll be driving home to Prince George's County tonight. And I want to say that I'm a first-generation college student. My family put me through in part because they invested in real estate. They work in real estate, I family who work in development. And when I explained to them the laws that we have that we're passing in Montgomery County, they said, wow that's a great deal. I would take that deal because they are facing much stricter regulatory environments but they still manage to make money in those environments. And a lot of people will come out here and say that our object is to make money, and they want to create affordable housing. And there's people who say that there's a consensus around rent stabilization. There's no consensus among economists about rent stabilization, any more than four out of five dentists want you to use Crest toothpaste. If you look at the study, claim a consensus, it is a survey by the University of Chicago of not housing economists, but economists in general about rent stabilization in the abstract having a net negative impact. It is not about specific rent stabilization policies. In the same way that the representative previously from Aoba used a fixed date of 2002 to skew the numbers on the re-quardation taxes because of differing development patterns over time. Regulatory environment is the most important thing about upkeep. Regulatory environment is not the amount that a landlord can increase the rent. It is about the regulatory environment. I know that because my former landlord, tower properties was here with a lobbyist that they were using my rent dollars to pay rather than fix the whole of my roof that I had for six months. It is the regulatory environment, not the amount that they can increase that will determine investment. Investment will always be used to maximize their returns. It's not going to be prioritized and repairs unless the government, the housing department, actually makes code enforcement a priority. Rockville is a hot real estate market. It has a beautiful metro station. Capital bike shares, maybe not as many as it used to, but hopefully we can get some more. But you have an obligation to protect those most vulnerable in this community as the economy grows. So please be thoughtful and pass a strong rent stabilization bill that prioritizes the voices of tenants over the needs and the bottom lines of landlords who have a profit incentive to tell you that rent stabilization will destroy the city when it will not. Thank you. Thank you. That exhaust those who have signed up in advance. We do have several comments that were also written. I wanted to just pause and see if there's anyone else who would like to speak. With that said, I thank you for pouring your hearts out to us tonight. Thank you for your time. I know it took a lot of time to sit here in these seats and to share your stories and we really appreciate you. We are going to take a quick break. We have two public hearings. I think some of the public hearing folks,'m hearing may have left, but we will proceed just in case. So we could just take a quick five minute break everyone and then reconvene. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. Today is still July 8,, 2024, thankfully, and we are going to reconvene me number 17-24. We do have two public hearings under agenda item 8. We're going to begin public hearing on Project Plan Application, PJT 2023-0016 and the amendment to the planned development for champion billiards to permit construction of a 4,400 square foot commercial building at 900 Rockville Pike in the PDC-B, planned development champion billiards zone, J. Danches LLC applicant staff. I welcome a presentation by you and then we'll get started with the public hearing. Does that work? Please introduce yourself the listening public. Good evening, Mayor and Councilor. My name is John Foreman. I'm the self-in-service manager and I'd like to introduce Kimi Azul-Pagarian. I don't want to say a new principal planner but this is the first time she's here before you all this evening so I want to introduce you all to her and she has a very challenging case with a lot of history. So she's going to go through that for you all this evening and be brief as possible also knowing that we're so handed over to her. Thank you, John, and welcome, Kimia. Thank you, good evening. Madam Mayor and members of the council. Again, I'm Kimia Zofo-Yaryan with the Department of Community Planning and Development Services. And this is a Project Plan Application, PJT 2023-0016 at 900 Rockville Pike. This is an aerial image of the subject property depicting the location in relation to Rockville Pike. The subject property address is 900 Rockville Pike. It is located at the intersection of Edminson Drive and Rockville Pike, south of Edminson Drive. The planning area for the subject property is Planning Area 9, Rockville Pike. The subject site area is 0.44 acres after a right of white dedication. The land use designation is office, commercial and residential mix. And the zoning district is planned development champion billiards with the equivalent designation of MXCD. The applicant is proposing to amend the champion billiards plan development to reduce the size of the commercial building and revise the site layout. Staff recommends approval with conditions. These are some additional aerial images that depict the subject property and its relation to neighboring properties from the west. This is an image from the east. As a way of background, the champion billiards plan development was approved in 2007. The approval included a two-story building up to 12,574 square feet of retail, a build-to-line reduced from 135 feet to 85 feet by right, a six-foot sidewalk and a 10-foot landscape berm on Rockville Pike, and the sole access to the site was provided from the public access east vent to the south. The applicant is currently proposing an amendment to the plan development and she's center on the pike with a site area of point 44 acres. They are proposing 4400 square feet of retail. The built-to line has been increased from 85 feet to 92 feet. It accommodates 8 foot bicycle path and a 7 foot pedestrian walkway. It will accommodate future BRT alignment along Rockville Pike. The proposed property is seen here highlighted on the plan to the right. The parking lot will be located adjacent to the property on the south and access to the property will be provided through the public access easement at the south of the property, which is a shared access. Details about the additional information about the public access easement has been and additional findings are included in the staff report. Additional background for this subject property was a previous submittal back in 2018 with a site area of 0.64 acres, 5500 square feet of retail, 900 square feet of office, a built-to line reduced from 85 feet to 72 feet and a 10 foot sidewalk. Marin Council requested further coordination at the time with MCDOT regarding the Plan BRT and the application was withdrawn in March 2023. This image depicts the proposed open area and the improvements to the site, including the bicycle and pedestrian improvements and the open area and public use space requirements are met. This is an outline of some of the community outreach and briefings that were involved with this application From 2017 up until 2024 Defindings As far as they relate to the comprehensive plan are that the proposed development will not be in conflict with the rockville 2040 Comprehensive Plan. The Maryland 355 bus rapid transit, BRT, bicycle and pedestrian facilities are being provided with the proposed application and an increase in commercial activity along Rockville Pike is also being proposed. Per the 2016 Rockville Pike neighborhood plan, the subject property provides interside vehicular and bicycle movement via public access easement as calls for by chapter 4. Parking is provided to the side of the building rather than in the front. It complies with the build to line and it reduces the number of curb cuts to rock build pike. From a zoning perspective, the public use space and open space provided that applicant provided meet the code requirements. And it also meets compliance with additional development standards that will be reviewed at the time of the level to site plan. Since no residential uses are planned, there is no impact on schools. And additionally, a water and sewer demand is reduced from the approved plan development with this new proposal. From a transportation standpoint, it satisfies the CTR requirements as proposed since the development reduces a previously approved plan development area. Additionally, it will not substantively alter or change vehicular traffic flow movements in and around the site. The applicant has provided evidence to confirm that an SU-30, which stands for single unit 30-foot-long vehicle truck, can safely access the site through any of the existing access driveways on the property to the south and the existing 25-foot wide public access easement. Regarding public and agency comments, the neighboring property owner has presented concerns about potential track movements, access from the existing public access easement across their property and potential impacts on plans for future redevelopment of the site. Additionally, the Maryland Department of Transportation State Highway Administration recommends closure of existing the existing Maryland 355 curb cut. It doesn't have any concerns about site circulation as shown on the plan, and no concerns about the use of existing access to the south. On January 10th, 2024, the Planning Commission recommended approval of the application, subject to the findings and conditions in the staff report, subject to further consideration of the proposed truck turning movements. The applicant subsequently provided exhibits showing that a SU-30 truck can safely access the site from multiple driveways along Rockville Pike. With that, staff recommends approval of the project planned PJT 2023-006, a proposed amendment to the Champion Billiards Plan Development and accept testimony. Marin Council will hold the public hearing and in the next items discuss and provide to direction to staff if they desire and the next steps for the project plan would be to proceed with a level 2 set plan and permitting. And that concludes the presentation. Thank you. Thank you. Before we begin the public hearing, I just want to see if anyone has any clarifying questions on what you just heard. Okay. All right. But that, we will proceed with taking the folks we have signed up in advance and then we'll take folks from the floor. The first person I have listed says Mama on this but I'm assuming that is not someone in the room at this time. So we'll proceed to invite Jody Klein. Welcome. Good evening. For the record my name is Jody Klein. I'm an attorney with the law firm of Mill and Millen can be with also is at 200 B Monroe Street here in Rockville And it's nice to be back here again. I Started in this room on this property in 2006. It was decorated differently. I can promise you to tell you that And my reaction was what do they need to hear from us today in terms of this application? Because I would think when you picked up the the material said, my God, this thing's been pending since 2006. What's taken so long? What's left to be talked about? But I didn't want to overlook anything. So you have here all of our consultants, civil engineers, traffic engineers, architects in the owner to answer any questions you have about any of the details. But I wanted to just kind of take a step back and put it at the global level, so you had an understanding of why it's taken this long to get here. And there's two elements to that. When we got the approval in 2007, Doug Killey went to work and everything and trying to make everything work. But as many times we came to the Planning Commission and the Mayor and Council, we could never confirm through the city's satisfaction that our development scale would not inhibit anything you wanted to do with Rockville Pike. And it probably took us till 2021, 2022 until I saw the Director of Public Works stand up here and say, I can tell you unequivocally folks that this applicant has shrunk his building so much, shrunk his land area so much, increased the dedication right away to give us the maximum amount of distance from the property line to the center line of Rockville Pike and that we can accommodate everything that the city of Rockville, the state of Maryland, and the Montgomery County Department of Transportation want to have in the BRT system. So at that point in time, all the issues about how big and everything be were all determined. So that allowed us to go and kind of start moving forward more of the fine detailing. At that point in time, we got more involved with the adjacent property owner to the south and you've seen the quantum of materials in the file about those issues in terms of the access to the property. You last saw this application. You were briefed, the council was briefed in, I guess, May of 2023. We got to the Planning Commission in January and notwithstanding a unanimous decision by the Planning Commission that this application meant all the requirements for approval. We left that hearing disappointed because we had spent hours debating minuscule issues about access to the property and where the easements were and what was the history of all this stuff, which makes this whole staff report so lengthy. So we said that's on it. We're going to scrap everything. We're going to start over again. We had our traffic engineer go out and do new traffic counts and we had him basically analyze the operating capability of the three northern most driveways that intersect into the shopping center of the south of us that would lead to our property. And after Mr. Mock Diari and your transportation plane division took a look at everything sized everything a little bit, he concluded that our traffic study showed that there was no adverse impact by using the driveway, the northern most driveway to get access to our property, that if we had to use one of the other driveways because of what I call a spiked strip that basically keeps us from getting direct access into the property, we can use the other two driveways and all of those intersections work at acceptable levels of service. The traffic study, if you're not sure you would have looked at it, but it's quite lengthy and it basically says, everything's okay. Lines of site are okay, turning movements are okay, volumes are okay. There is just no adverse impact on the traffic on the pike, nor any adverse effect to the shopping center to the south of us. So with that, we felt that we had addressed the complaints that we heard in the January hearing with the Planning Commission and had preempted all of those things so there was no empirical evidence that would demonstrate any kind of adverse effect on that property. And so I'm saying we hope that we have addressed not only all of the zoning ordinance standards, but all of the concerns and objections of the property under the South to the satisfaction of your experts, including your legal department, because I keep reminding everybody this case has never been recommended for denial by anybody. the Mayor and City Council, the BIC Advisory Committee, the Pedestrian Advisory Committee, and the Court of Appeals of Maryland, especially the Court of Special Appeals of Maryland. All of the looked at this and said, this is all doable and a legal matter. And as with Mr. Mock Diarris approval, we think it works with no adverse effect on the adjacent property. So with all the information you've got got which meets all the standards and sunny ordinance We think we've addressed all the concerns that have been raised I know mr. Wellinson letter into you. He may join us tonight to tell us about it I believe that our traffic Study and the city's review that traffic study have said these are not concerns We think would keep the city from approving this application So that's what I would ask you to do. And we'd be pleased to come back in August to get approval so that we can roll into the site plan approval. Glad to answer any question you have. These gentlemen will love to speak if you have any. You want to know what color the building is going to be? But that's not really the issue. This is a little bit different. Can I do anything for you? Thank you very much. Okay thanks. Joel Danches. Welcome. Madam Mayor and Council, I'm Joel Danches, I'm the applicant. I will say that this has been a very long and arduous task for me trying to get my little site there. It was a little over a half acre developed. I had plans on having my office there on the second level of the building with 5,500 square feet. It was absolutely gorgeous. We had such a gorgeous building. And the site itself, I'm a long-term rock fill resident. I grew up around in Rock fill. I worked at the giant food as a cashier at the giant in Rock fill. I lived in a room in Twinbrook with a bunch of other people in a house. But all I can say to you, this has been so long and hard and I have such a great feeling about this property. Every time I drive by it, it has so much visibility. It's such a great piece of property. And if you've been by my site there, you'll see with your eyes that I have, I had a plan that was going to look so great, but in consideration of the bike path, the BRT, I downsize the property to the rectangular size building that you see on my plan, which I think will be a home run also. I've been approached by a person who does imaging for people that need diagnosed For problems in their bodies. I also had somebody that came to me that really was excited about going in with a Like a company that does paint like a Sherman and Williams, but they ended up walking away because of the time frame. But you know, I just hope that Mayor and Council see the same light that I see through this fog that I've been dealing with over the years and I want to thank you and I hope we get this approved. Thank you. May I ask you, I took the liberty of basically signing up all of my witnesses to make sure they were available to testify. They don't have any prepared testimony unless you have questions for them. But if you like to hear from the Arctic Civil Engineer, traffic engineer, they're available, but otherwise I'm not going to call them as a witness unless you have something you'd like to hear. Thank you. So I have David Nelson, Dylan Mac macro, Jeff Whitman, and then so this is Shelley Vellone. Are they all part of your team? That is correct. OK. All right. I know that we have a DNI, however, I just want to see if anyone has any pressing questions at this time. Are you? Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. And staff will be in touch this week regarding an update a date so that we can make sure we get some resolution. Appreciate it. Thank you. Next we have another public hearing. We may have lost some people, but the topic is Agenda Item 8B, Public Hearing Unzoning Text Amendment, TXT 2024, 0, 0, 266, 2 men, Article 14 in order to establish a process to amend Neighborhood Conservation Districts, Mayor and Council of Rockville Applicants. And I believe that we'll have a presentation by Chris Davis from the City of Rockville. And as a flag, I don't see anyone signed up in advance. We have no speakers. As you're getting ready, if staff could also speak to the time sensitivity of this item because there are, there's a discussion of DNI that I believe is coming up before the end of the summer and we'll just want to understand, is it time sensitive to do given that we have a couple other agenda items that will meet the Niles, please and Thank you Thank you Madam Mayor and members of the Council for the record Christopher Davis with community planning and development services department. I guess to begin with your question we have outlined the DNI for this item to come back to you. In a few weeks we are on a time schedule to keep the following items in the pipeline moving with the final adoption in December. If we can keep the project moving so we would like to keep on schedule with the aforementioned date in September. Coming back to us in September? Yes. Okay. I did see that. I just want to make sure that as we have to, we pushed off two items tonight and then we'll be talking later about July 29th is already packed to end at 1130 as well. How we're going to handle that. It might have a domino effect. So just want to flag that for consideration. All right so this item before you again is a public hearing for neighborhood conservation districts it's a zoning text amendment TXT202400266 and just says a background and recap for the Council of Neighborhood Conservation Districts or NCDs are overlay zones, part of our zoning ordinance, which are intended to prioritize the revitalization or conservation of older areas, possessing distinct features worthy of retention and enhancements. They are established through two main features, the adoption of a conservation district plan and a accompanied conservation district zone. The NCDs were established in Arcoode with the adoption of the 2007 Lincoln Park Neighbor Conservation District Plan and to date, Lincoln Park is the only NCD within the city. So this current ZTA comes to you as staff continues to work with the Lincoln Park community and projecting and moving forward with this design guidelines. And this ZTA would create a process for amending an adopted NCD plan. Part of that process includes amending the plan, following procedures for adopting a master plan. And then once that's completed, the Marin Council could file a text or sectional map amendment to bring the conservation district zone into conformance with that amended plan. The main purposes for this ZTA one is to establish a procedure for amending an NCD. Currently there is no process for that in our code, so this would all allow future amendments to proceed through an established process. Furthermore, and relevant to the Lincoln Park design guidelines, the 2040 comprehensive plans make several recommendations on amending the Lincoln Park NCD boundary and determining whether updated standards are warranted with that effort. Coming to the specifics of the Lincoln Park Design Guidelines, staff has worked with the Lincoln Park Community and our partners since 2021 to create new design guidelines and standards. We found through that process, the most effective way to adopt the new guidelines is through amending the current NCD. Should the ZTA be approved, the guidelines will be able to be introduced? So recapping some previous events at the planning commission, this ZTA was introduced to them back on February 7th, where they received their formal briefing and then we returned back to the commission on March 13th, where the commission recommended approval of the ZTA as presented by staff. So our next steps for this current ZTA is to obviously continue with public hearing this evening, followed by the DNI. I should note on July 29th, I believe I said September previously, but we do have this scheduled for July 29th with possible adoption coming on September 9th. We also anticipate to introduce that conservation district amendment and the design guidelines to you on that same evening of September 9th. And with that, that concludes that presentation. Thank you. So this will come back to us. We'll get a firm date from the City Manager's Office this week. Does anyone have any questions in the interim? Thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it. All right. And just to clarify for both public hearings, we'll leave the record open. Right. Just want to make sure and that make sure that the public knows and this is probably noticed and all just wanted to confirm. Okay. Thank you. Just making sure for both items. For both items. All right. So just if anyone is following our agenda, we have already proceeded on consent agenda item. I want to thank you for being here on this hearing and we look forward to meeting with you again in the future. Our next item is agenda item 10. I want to switch departments here and have a quick transition. It will be on the rent stabilization, presentation and discussion. We welcome generator. Jane Raider, sorry. I think for Drika, sorry, it's late. Jane. Also, I know that for Drika Granger, are you, okay, I think for Drika, sorry it's late Jane. Also, I know that for Drika Granger, are you, okay, I see you're here not speaking, but you're here. Okay, all right. Okay, Jane and team, welcome. Thank you. Good evening. Let me pull up the presentation here. My name is Jane Lines Raider and I'm the housing programs manager with HCD and joining me today this evening is Landlord tenant specialist Trevor Stevens and then also our grants and Pergrance Analyst Sarah Maisel So we'll be rotating in and out. They helped me to prepare the staff report and they're also excited to be before you to speak in front of the mayor and council for the first time. Thank you. Welcome. So you have heard a lot about rent stabilization tonight and now you're going to hear some more. This is a very high-level briefing. This is a 101 introduction to the topic of rent stabilization. Can I start one second? Yes. There's a camera right behind your sign if you could just adjust this. Thank you. I want to make sure this is recorded. Thank you very much. So, staff is not making any recommendations at this time about what the mayor and council should or should not do. And to put this into the context of the June 3rd Housing Briefing, rent stabilization is a policy option within the stability leg of the three-legged housing stool. Those legs being stability, subsidy, and supply. So here we are talking about a stability policy option. The discussion tonight is similar to the staff report but a little bit different. Some sections have been consolidated here. And first we're going to dive into the landscape of Rockville's rental housing market and who are renters here. So about 45% of Rockville residents are renters. This is as of the 2020 census based on the American Community Survey estimates of how many residents are rock for how many residents are renters that percentage is rising. Past 45% is growing. The median rent is over $2,000 and to afford that median rent of renter needs an income of over $84,000 to afford it. And 55% of renters are housing cost burdened. And being housing cost burden means that you're paying more than 30% of your gross income towards housing costs, more than 50% of your income going towards housing means that you are considered severely housing cost burdened. So this is a breakdown of housing cost burden by race within Rockville. So you can see here that the race and ethnicity that is feeling the heaviest burden is Hispanic and Latino, followed by some other race, category, two or more races, and black and African-American. This is a chart that breaks down the characteristics of the housing units themselves that are occupied by renters. So about almost 50% of the housing units in Rockville are occupied by renters. Most of those are in buildings that are over 10 units. There's a fairly even-ish spread between when those housing units were built, mostly between the years 1960 and 2019, as one might expect. And within the bedroom breakdown, about 30% of those units are one bedroom and nearly 60% are two or three bedrooms. Historical rent increases. I want to caveat this by saying that this is data for multi-family rentals only. It is pulled from co-star, so this is not looking at necessarily single-family rentals, which is still a large rental market within the city of Rockville. The average rent has gone up, as you can see here from 2000, and the rent increases over that time have been mostly below the voluntary rent guidelines. You can see in red all of the years where they were below in that last column of the chart on the right. But especially in the past few years, there have been in 2021 and 2022, especially the rent increases were higher than the city is used to seeing. And that's largely attributed to pandemic-related rent freezes and also the inflation that has been experienced. So this graph shows the income of renters specifically. So this is not the income of the whole city of Rockville, but specifically of renters, compared to the average rent of that year. And there's the nominal rent or income, and then also the real renter income. And real renter income, that is adjusted for inflation. So when adjusted for inflation, renters have essentially been flat since 2010. This is with the caveat that housing costs are a big part of inflation. But the real and nominal incomes of renters have been decreasing over the past several years. And this means that people are feeling even more squeezed in the most recent several years when it comes to paying their rents. when it comes to paying their rents. For this slide, we have the reported rent increases that folks have reached out to the Department of Housing and Community Development about. So in FY 2024, there were 140 resident complaints. FY 2023, 106. These rent increases range in that two-year period from about 5.8% to up to 40%. And this is mostly looking at complaints related to one year lease terms. All right, so part two, background on rent stabilization as a policy itself. So we are using the term rent stabilization here since we were directed to do a briefing on rent stabilization, but the umbrella term for policies that regulate how much a landlord can increase the rent buy is called rent regulations. So there are generally thought to be three types of rent regulation policies and the the linearization between the three is usually based on how strict they are. And there's no certain delineation about what percent increase means what. So these are three pretty broad categories. The first is rent control. This is the strictest. And this is typically considered a first generation rent regulation policy. It was often implemented in the post-war era or during World War II, and there was a lot of housing shortages and wild fluctuations due to the war. And it decreased in popularity during the 1970s when more of the second generation rent regulation policies gained prominence. So rent stabilization, this applies to a larger number of units than rent control usually does and may cover an entire city. It typically allows for rent increases of a fixed amount and then anti-rent gouging. This is a very broad-based regulation that sets a relatively high cap on rent increases. For example, the state of Oregon, I believe that their rent regulation policy is 7% plus inflation. And currently around 200 localities, two states, California, and I just mentioned Oregon, and the District of Columbia have enacted some kind of rent regulation policy. There are some second generation rent regulation policies that call themselves rent control, so it can be very confusing when trying to figure out what language to use to talk about these things. 33 states preempt local rent regulations, meaning that localities are banned from enacting those policies, and eight states do not have rent control or preemption. So now I'm going to go through the common components of a rent stabilization law. So first is really the bread and butter and that's the allowable rent increase. How much can the landlord increase rents each year or at the end of each lease term. Most jurisdictions with rent stabilization tag this to the consumer price index, such as having a percentage of the CPI, 75% of CPI, the consumer price index itself. That's like to come apart, for example, CPI with a limit, up to a CPI with a maximum of 5%, whichever is lower, or set amount above the CPI. So for example Montgomery County's law that was passed is 3% plus CPI with a maximum cap of 6%. And fees. Feees are not usually at the forefront of a rent stabilization policy, but usually they're included within the regulations themselves. So for example Montgomery County's regulations, look at things such as fees, parking fees, pet fees, amenity fees. So that's another aspect that I know the Marin Council has talked about before that rent regulation policies, rent stabilization can take a look at. So exceptions. There's the question of what happens when one tenant moves out and a new tenant moves in. Does the landlord have to adhere to the allowable rent increase or not. If they do have to adhere to the allowable rent increase, then that is vacancy control. If they are allowed to make the rent, whatever they would like it, reset it to the market rate, then that is considered vacancy decontrol. And I'll note that if a jurisdiction has vacancy decontrol, it's usually seen as a best practice to have just cause eviction policies so that there's not an incentive for a landlord to evict someone so that they can charge a higher rent within the state of Maryland. The state does not currently allow just cause or good cause eviction. And so that's something to consider when thinking about crafting a policy. Fair return. A fair return provision allows the landlord to increase the rents, to an amount that ensures that they can meet operating expenses, receive a return on their investment, and oftentimes they're submitting to the jurisdiction of fair return petition. And what constitutes a fair return is can be quite complicated and that's something that's ironed out in the regulations of policy. Similar to fair return, there are oftentimes exceptions for capital improvements if a landlord wants to enhance the value of the property outside of ordinary repair or maintenance. This is seen as a way to ensure that landlords still have an incentive to improve their property and practice good maintenance. Some jurisdictions also have exceptions for substantial renovations. And similarly, there's usually a petition that is submitted and then approved. And then rent banking. If a landlord does not increase rents by the maximum allowable amount, some systems allow a landlord to save up or bank the amount of the allowable rent increased, not utilized to then use it in the future. So say you could go up to 6%, but you only went up to 5%, that next year you could apply that 1% to go up to 7. So Montgomery County's law allows rent baking up to 10%. There is a longer example in the staff report if that was confusing, because I know that that can be a confusing policy sometimes. And then exemptions. So these are usually based on some sort of policy priority. Oftentimes, exemptions are crafted in a way to protect quote unquote mom and pop landlords or to incentivize new construction. Usually most rent stabilization systems have an exemption for new construction anywhere from five to 30 years. It really just depends. The many systems also exempt single family homes, smaller multi-family properties where the owner resides in a unit, condominiums, accessory dwelling units, places that are less likely to be owned by a large corporate landlord. Some other components, limits on condominium conversions, oftentimes property owners will try to get around rent stabilization policies by converting their rental units into a condo. So sometimes jurisdictions will place restrictions on condominium conversions. There are almost always reporting requirements, although a lot of jurisdictions have difficulties with reporting requirements and data collection, which can make enforcement very difficult. For example, despite DC's longstanding run control policy, they have only recently gotten an online database up and running, so that's something to take into consideration. It's useful to have that data data but can be difficult to collect. Program management, usually there's some combination of a government agency and or a board or commission. Sometimes it's just an agency but there are many places that utilize that board and commission model. And then enforcement actions. You want to make sure that if you have this policy, you're able to take enforcement measures against actors who are not following the rules. All right, so now I'm going to dive into the high level research findings here. And yet again, I emphasize high level. So staff do not have the capacity or the time necessarily to do an in-depth academic literature of yourself. And luckily Montgomery County just across the street last year put together a very long in-depth rapport, which included a survey in academic literature dive into second-generation, run stabilization policies. And so these high-level research findings are taken away from their summary of the research that they did and this is the office of legislative oversight so it is a nonpartisan component of county government. There are many other caveats here and that's that there is a relatively small body of research on rent stabilization. A small number of jurisdictions to actually study since so few places actually have it. The variations between rents, stabilizations and local housing markets can be vast. As you saw with all of those different components, there's a real range in what you can select there and how a policy can be crafted. So it can be really hard to compare apple staples. And a lot of the research that we have is frequently quite old. So those are some caveats about the research that is there. So the OOLO staff advise caution on extrapolating these findings to other jurisdictions with different economies, housing markets, and different kinds of systems. So the impact on housing stability, this one is pretty clear in the academic literature that tenants who live and rent regulated units live in that place for a longer period of time than tenants in non-regulated units. And there's a vast body of research that shows that housing stability has many, many multiplier effects on your well-being, physical, emotional, mental, educational outcomes for students. Having that stability is something that can be really core. Impact on rent levels. Almost everyone agrees that rent stabilization is really good at keeping rents lower than in non-regulated units. But there is varied research on whether rent stabilization causes rents and non-regulated units to increase or decrease. Program reached. So who is benefiting from run stabilization policies? Anyone who rents is going to be potentially benefiting from run stabilization, but the folks who are benefiting the most are going to be the people who are at the most risk of housing instability. So this is often low income tenants and disproportionately black and Hispanic or Latino tenants. Impact on new construction. So research findings generally show that rent stabilization does not negatively impact new construction, especially if the regulations exempt new construction from the regulations for a specific period of time. So the developers can essentially recoup those costs and pay off their construction loan, which can last for anywhere from 10, 17, 20 years. And so there are other academic literature reviews outside of LOL, outside of OLOs literature review that they did. And so since then staff has been able to dive a little bit more into those and look at the breakdown of studies of rent stabilizations impacts on supply and new construction. So it would be happy to go more into that at a later date, definitely more research to do there. But a major takeaway is that there seems to be a large difference between first and second generation rent stabilization policies and their impacts on supply and new construction. The impact on existing rental properties, rent stabilization might entice property owners to convert their rental properties to other uses, such as I mentioned before, condominium conversions. And so some cities with rent regulations have seen reductions in the supply of rental units. And that's why there's a distinction there between a decrease in overall supply of housing and a decrease in construction, new construction of housing. Findings are mixed on the impact on maintenance and capital improvements. Some of research findings show that rent regulated units had higher levels of aesthetic maintenance problems, but findings are mixed on this. Also mixed evidence on the impact on property values. And then this is just a summary chart of what you heard here about the impact on residential rental markets. So for part four, I'm going to hand it over to my colleague Trevor Stevens. Thank you, Jane. So again, I want to reiterate that this list is by no means exhaustive. You know, a lot of this can vary and depend on how certain rent stabilization initiatives are structured in terms of the way that it turns out. Some of these things that proved to be benefits for certain parties could end up being detriment to others and vice versa. But bearing all that in mind, we had four different areas in which we were considering for the benefits and limitations. The first of which is for tenants. So a lot of this is built on what Jane was touching on before. So in terms of the potential benefits, you see stability and affordability increased for tenants as long with social and health benefits, as well as additional money that can then be put back into different sectors within those lives. In terms of some of the limitations that we see, a lot of we've heard in some of those in terms of the testimonies earlier today, we hear about property maintenance or renovation issues, disincentive to move to the potential detriment of other aspects of life, along with less turnover that could lead to fewer general vacancies, along with some of the points that James was talking about earlier in terms of condo conversion. James talking about earlier in terms of condo conversion. As for landlords, some of the benefits we see are less turnover on that front, which could mean to more consistent income, as well as less competition if the housing supply is lower, whereas some of the detriment include a potential impact to profit, as well as more risk in securing loans, which has largely to do with the impact of property valuations, as well as repayment risk. On the jurisdictional front, we see benefits in the fact that it could lead to more attractive rental jurisdiction overall, as well as making renters more engaged and as well as if more renters than it has a potentially positive impact on the economy with a larger workforce. As for some of the detourments, we see a potential for stagnation in the local economy, if the area is not as desirable for investment, lower property values as well as implementation and implementation and enforcement would require additional investment for staff and training. And lastly, when looking at some of the impact on racial equity and social justice, we expect and positive net impact in these fields as cost burden tenants are disproportionately low income, black, Hispanic, Native American and mixed race renters. We would also anticipate improved housing and economic security over its not anticipated to break down barriers to home ownership or alter existing geography of the residential segregation. And I would just like to to lastly say that again no one policy alone would be expected to solve housing inequality. And that's true of rent stabilization as well. So rent stabilization again is just one policy option for one leg of the three-legged housing policy stool that we often hear about. All right, now I'll hit it over to Sarah. Good evening. So we here have a table of the regional and national case studies that we've looked at, and we compiled it with the components that Jean discussed earlier. So we have, when it was adopted, the allowable rent increase caps, if it applies to banked rent, rental registry, board commission, new construction exemption, vacancy, decontrol, and fair return. So it is important to note a few things. For example, at the time that we were conducting this research, Prince George's County, the data that's reflected on this table was looking at their temporary policy. It's now important to note that they are close to passing their permanent policy, which is going to mirror very closely Montgomery County's policy. The only difference is that it will exempt new construction after 2002. I also wanted to take the time to note a little bit of the background of Montgomery County's rent stabilization and rent policy. So it was originally established in 1973 after federal rent controls were ended but at the time rents were still fairly inflationary. Ultimately it was repealed in 1982, but it went through several different iterations prior to the repeal. So in 1977 based on data, the county determined rent controls could end when the vacancy rate was above 4%, placing renters in a very competitive position. By December of 1977, half of the 44,000 previously controlled units would be unregulated simply through vacancy. The voluntary rent guidelines were then put in place instead. Additionally, that's noted on this chart there are two examples that have likely impacted new construction to Coma Park and St. Paul. So something to note about to Coma Park is that there has been no new multi-family development into Coma Park since it was passed. In St. Paul in 2000 and 2022, there was a 55% decrease in permits submissions within the first five months of enacting the policy of the 8% increase landlord submitted 362 just clause vacancy increase requests within the first four months of the new policy increase. As a result of this and other exemptions, one third of St. Paul is now exempt from rent stabilization. Thank you. So yeah, there we mostly wanted to highlight some of the most notable points from the case studies that we had pulled out there. We don't have time to go in depth into each of them here today, but we're happy to answer any questions. Now I will move on to the conclusion to wrap us up. So really from you this evening, we are just looking for you to discuss front stabilization. We have received already many questions, great questions from you all that we would be happy to look more into. We will note down any additional questions that you share with us this evening. But the plan at the moment is to have a follow-up conversation to discuss all of your short-term housing priorities, short-term being what are the housing priorities for within the next two years. And at that meeting, you would identify the outcomes that you would like to see as it relates to housing, and staff would at that meeting ask you to decide whether rent stabilization and or further studying rent stabilization because there are a lot of questions that have been shared with us is one of your short-term priorities. Can I pause one second? I'm sorry. I'm hearing some information that our feed is down. Can someone just check with Kathy to make sure that Channel 11 is up and running? Thank you. Please proceed. I just want to make sure that that if there is a king, someone's working on it. Absolutely. Thank you. Yes. So at that follow-up meeting about short-term housing priorities, we would ask you of what those priorities were and showed rent stabilization or further looking into rent stabilization be one of them. further looking into rent stabilization be one of them. And let's see. Yes, to speak further to the studying rent stabilization, as was said, this is really an intro, a 101. So if there are more questions, research questions, you would like us to look into. We might not be able to take the staff time to answer them before that follow-up housing discussion. We can do our best, but if that is if we want to dig into that much more that might need to be stated as a priority so that staff will know how to prioritize their time and should the mayor and council decide to go down the path of pursuing a run stabilization policy we would have a more robust conversation about its potential impacts to the city, including a fiscal note. There's a lot of analysis that's difficult to do without an actual policy to look at. So that conversation that would look and dig more into those specifics would happen later down the road. And with that, that is it for our presentation here. Thank you very much. I recognize it is now 10.33 and I want to just reiterate and thank everyone for being here today, thanking you and the team. I know that we have been short on staff and I want to acknowledge that you did rely very heavily on all of this time and you noted that you'd like to be able to do more research should just proceed. But I want to thank you, given that we have been down a director and additional support for you all. I think you've done a fantastic job and I appreciate the level of effort that you continue to bring. Please stick with us. Health is coming soon. Thank you. I will also just briefly remark that the President and the personal stories share today, undiscoid, the importance of our overarching need for our housing discussion. There's a lot that needs to be done in terms of stability, supply, and subsidy. There are also code issues that we really have to update. There are basic rental protections and inspection ideas that we really need to move on. In general, I think all of my colleagues up here would agree that we can do better and we are working on it. I also know that, you know, just personally speaking from someone who has grown up and a diverse community and a low income environment, how important housing is, how important quality is, and it's more than just a roof over our heads. It's about community and families. It's a fundamental part of our well-being, and if you look at the social determinants of health, it's a critical part of that. I think we've all discussed that we need to increase supply for the listening public this Mayan Council has labeled three critical things where we see that there are needs to do more economic development housing and public safety. Supply is part of that, expanding our housing stock, thinking about rental protections. We definitely need more units, but we also need to look at how do we attract partners who are focused on affordability, because there is a place for luxury rentals is also a place for people who need basic, safe quality housing. And we need to be more proactive about reaching out to the kinds of players who can bring that mix of housing to Rockville. I know we'll have a more detailed workshop to discuss how we get that done. But I will just say for the listening public, we may have disagreements on how we get there. And on this day is what I can say is everyone cares about housing, everyone cares about our residents, everyone cares about economic development and opportunity for all, right? And so I look forward to having this discussion with my colleagues. I know there's a lot of people wanting to say that this is not just the beginning of, you know, it's the beginning of the discussion, not the end in terms of housing overall. So I will just note if we can each, as we speak, make our three points and then allow your colleague to speak and I will promise to come back to you, but I just wanna make sure that everyone has a chance to speak this evening. With that said, I will open the floor to my colleagues for questions and comments. I know that several of us have sent a lot of questions and as you noted, there's some things that you're not able to delve into without knowing the direction we're going in because it's going to take a lot of time. And also, you've admitted that there are things that you haven't been able to do in terms of the other work that you're trying to get done on housing as well. So I look forward to being able to get to that. Colleagues, you have questions, comments? Who wants to go first? All right. I do know where. Okay, Council Member Vellieri. No, I have a first. Okay. Dr. Miles. Dr. Miles and then Council Member Vellieri. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I think he says, try, start with three points, and then yield the floor, so I'll do that accordingly. Please do cut me off as needed. I guess the, well, first, as you mentioned, thank you for the presentation and the data that went behind it. I've learned a great deal in reading through the materials, hearing from testimony from residents, uh, developers as well. It's a concern people more broadly. Um, one particular question I have, um, are if we were as an example at some point in the future to be an agreement with in principle some form of rein stabilization, what sort of do you think stacking would be needed for that? I have a follow-up question to that. But if y'all can imagine how, what in terms of FTEs, which y'all need to make it happen? So as you referenced, it's difficult to do an analysis of that without an actual policy to base that analysis off of. We would at least need one additional FTE to do that work, but likely more. And as was mentioned, an additional fiscal analysis to the city, not just for FTEs, but for things like software to collect the data and other aspects that would go into that program administration. We would have to look into that more at a later date, but I believe the cost to Montgomery County, it was, I mean, not quote the staff report without knowing it for sure. About $1.4 million, I believe, and they had, they hired about 9 or 10 staff members. Yes, I believe that. Just to start, we don't know what's going to be in the future once they get into it. Right, so that's that's a cost for us to look at. Not that we would be the same as Montgomery County, Montgomery County being much much larger than the city of Rockville. But to help us understand maybe with our scale what we would be looking at there. And Jane, your Q&A document noted that you think you would need at least the additional full-time positions if I. Yes. That's what we would ask to me, but it is difficult to tell at this time. Thank you. Dr. Mollstone. Thanks for that. And that's what I heard from the Caryan Zill about nine additional FTEs. Another point that was interesting from the county's director of housing is that I guess that was interesting from the county's director of housing is that I guess at the level that they implemented the 3% plus the CPI, the majority of folks, both renters and landlords will be unaffected by it meaning that their increase is over a year or less than at 6%. There's only kind of an outlet of like 20% of folks would actually be affected by this. I just thought that was interesting But on that same point I think this might be my final question or point Given that we have in a related manner work with the county even you know utilizing some similar resources. What comes to mind is our having a mental health worker work with the police department to respond to calls. I believe our former council member, Fyneberg, along with the city manager worked over months to, I think they're part of the Europe or more to have somebody contract both with the county and us to work with. Is that if again this is a big deal? Wow what we decide is a body is that something some of that we can implement meaning that given the software and data that would be needed to be collected. The additional staff that would be needed as you all correctly outlined is a way for us to not have to necessarily reinvent the wheel, but working with the county on a contractual basis or otherwise to have staff and or utilize their data resources. That's an interesting question. I think it would depend on certain factors. I would lean towards probably saying that that would be quite difficult because I would expect that Rockville's policy would be have different intricacies than the cities, Rockville's policy would have different intricacies than the counties policy. And somebody working on rent stabilization would need to be intimately familiar with all of those differences and a specialist in two very complicated policies and then I think that would be a really big question about if we're able to do data sharing with the county and use similar reporting systems. I would think that that would also be quite a complex and difficult lift. Oftentimes our systems are completely separate. So that would be a new territory, I would think. Understood, thanks for that. And this is the final point, I think I was literally three saw in here. I former renter myself, third generation landlord, when I was a renter in Baltimore, I had a 10% increase for my first year of residency the second year and end up having to give up my my my my garage park. I just bike tour between East and West Baltimore. That's a decision that I was able to make because I'm a you know six three 200 pounds like I'm basically issues but not many people can make that decision. People who are forced out of their homes sometimes have to make more difficult decisions, including moving a step-standard housing that might have old rodents, inadequate heating or cooling, which can exacerbate underlying health conditions, like asthma, which a lot of kids that I treat involved more had, unfortunately. The others might be forced to move to more overcrowded conditions, which in the context of the pandemic, we know is not necessarily ideal. And then others who are ultimately a big oftentimes end up moving to more unsafe environments. This is all data from Health and Human Services, Health and Human People, 30, 20, 30. So I do recognize that rent stabilization is only one way to address housing affordability. But I think it's very important, both as a former rent or myself, a landlord who never increased rents on my tenants. It's something I would support in there. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Council member Valerie. Thank you. Council member Valerary. Thank you. This is probably one of the most complex toughest issues that I think that we've had to discuss. So far as an newly elected person, I feel like, as similar to Councilmember Dr. Miles, I will also put out my Bonafide's former renter Neverland Lord, and only been a homeowner of a very moderately priced house in my neighborhood for about 11 years now. I've struggled with, you know, essentially when we hear about any complex issue, there's always something that's at the heart of it. And to me, at the heart of this discussion and affordable housing generally is the very real but under-iscussed issue of income inequality. People in the higher income bracket continue to make more and more money while middle and lower income families do not see an analogous rise in income. And that is the struggle and that's the challenge. Tax increases, like the one that to come apart carries its limit passed add to income inequality because they disproportionately affect middle and lower income levels. To come apart, actually raised their taxes in 2023 and I believe before that 2015, but don't quote me on that. I also know as a, with a very short stint in DC lifelong Montgomery County resident. It is way the cost of living in this county is beyond out of reach and has been for quite some time. It's way too high. It's untenable for many folks. Groceries have not come down to pre-pandemic levels, clothing, other household needs, building materials remain high, which means that for a lot of people during the pandemic, they're like, oh yeah, great, we can, you know, I'll be home and we can renovate our home. Many folks could not, because the building materials were either unavailable or the price of skyrocketed. There is no stability in home ownership either. I just want to put this out there as a fairly new homeowner. Morgge rates fluctuate depending on the kind of mortgage that you have and property tax hikes like with the county pass recently actually affect your monthly payments. So we're also very dependent. Homeowners are also very dependent on the policies passed by the county. So I want to, that was my point one. I only have two points, but you're going to come back to be all right. OK. I think that we're also looking at, honestly, a housing quality crisis. And this is where I have been very affected by the stories that I've heard from folks. As I understand it, under the county bill, natural occurring affordable housing buildings may be covered under their hard rent cap. And these buildings according to reports from renters that I've heard, are in need of more frequent inspections at a minimum because the code violations that I have seen or read are beyond disturbing. Myse, multiple mice, families of mice, rats, cockroaches, bed bugs, even squirrels in one instance. I was going to bring photos. I decided that. I'm glad I didn't, because it was disturbing. And I want to know what we are doing as a city to address this, because if those are the buildings that would be covered under at least an increased cap, then are we essentially saying, well, all these units are okay, and these are actually the most unhealthy rental options for folks, that's a public health crisis in the making. And it already is a public health crisis because it's not just any housing that people, I believe, deserve, but healthy, safe housing. So those are my two things that I've really been wrestling with, and I hope that as a body that we can kind of internalize those two things in whatever solution that we craft going forward. Thank you. Just piggyback and I see, come from a Vangrack on what you said. One is I will just note that we're not currently following our code. Yeah. There are a lot of things I've reread the our chapter 18 on rental facilities and we're not. There are certain requirements that landlord is supposed to be doing that they're not, including the comments on rodents and being vermin-free. But there are also things about tracking information on rent increase. What rental rates are, leases, we're not yet. They're also, we've heard from some tenants who say they're hearing about rent increases within not beyond that is less than the 90 days that's required. This troubles me greatly because we need to do at least the base of what we're supposed to do. And as we think about expanding protections, and I think it leaves renters vulnerable, and we've got to do better. That happened before many of you were here, so I'm not pointing any fingers. I'm just saying we as a collective city need to do better. In terms of, you know, we learn that 75% or so are in multi-family homes, above 70%. We are not treating multi-family units the same way we're treating people who are renting single-family homes. We also know that people who are renting single-family homes tend to get better treatment. I have grave concerns that multi-family units are being inspected once every five years because we're doing 20 percent. And single-family homes are doing every two. I think every five years is way too long. One of the issues that we have heard is that people are afraid sometimes to report on issues. And if we have more regular inspections, it's a way to help make sure that quality housing is happening and people don't have to report. You put a people in a vulnerable position. So I just wanted to say that as we think about what we want to add, we've got to do better what we said we're already going to do. We also have to look at updating the code. There are some things where it says, if for some reason the licenses are vote, they have 60 days. And I don't think 60 days is enough time for a renter to be able to find a new home. So there's a couple of things like that that I think at a base level, we need to fix what we're already started. It comes with an impact. Thank you. And first, thank you to staff. I know you've done a really great job putting this together. Been involved with multiple briefings. And I also want to be clear, we've got a health-the-render community. And I want to be clear to the rental community. Every single council member in the mayor on this dies. We've been in multiple briefings, working with staff, discussing these issues, pouring over these issues. And I believe in my heart of hearts, every single member of this body wants to help the renters. There might be a differing of policy views of how to get there. But we all want to help the renters, and I think it's clear from what we heard in today's testimony during community forum, there is a need to help them. And I think it goes to what the mayor and councilman Bavila was talking about with code enforcement. We've got to do a better job of code enforcement. We've got to do a better job of disclosures of what a renter is not knowledgeable of of what they're getting into. And most importantly, we've got to get the prices down for renters. And I think it's critical. And I want to quote from a few of the community forum members, someone said, and this is a quote, renters are experiencing a crisis of affordability. There's no doubt that's happening. This is someone else that she's worried that her children quote, can't afford rental prices. And even someone from Kasa came and said, the ever increasing rents, this is a problem and we've got to work to solve it. My one concern with regard to rent stabilization, I know the staff was discussing this, is the rent stabilization deals with the current rental control unit, not necessarily the prices of rent overall. And I do appreciate, and I'm going to, within the staff report, and it was a great quote that staff had, and it was a quote that said, quote, research findings generally show that the rent regulation systems do not negatively impact new construction. Well, I looked and that was actually a direct quote, I think in you acknowledge that from the 2023 Office of Legislative Oversight from the county. And I noticed that they didn't have a citation to that in their ultimate report. But what I find interesting, and I'm honestly curious, I don't know if I have the answer, if you go three years before to the county's Office of Legislative Oversight report, they say the almost the exact opposite. They quote and say, this is the same office, three years before, research indicates that rent stabilization could lead to reduced supply of rental housing and upward pressure on the prices of unregulated units, including owner occupied units. this reduced supply could occur as a result of condominium conversion or reduced construction activity. Research also indicates that rent stabilization programs often result in divestment by owners, including deferred or foregone maintenance. There is evidence that rent stabilization has led to neighborhood deterioration or increase crime in some locations. There is evidence that red stabilization has led to neighborhood deterioration or increased crime in some locations. I'm concerned because that's a drastic difference that the same office has come about. I don't know if Seth, if you even inquired about that, I mean, if there was any idea of where the opposite views came from. I think the difference might be coming from looking at second generation rent regulation policies versus all rent regulation policies. So I promise that this will be quick, but just looking at second generation rent stabilization policies, there are three studies showing that there's less construction for showing that there's less supply. Five studies showing that there's no impact. One showing that there's more supply. One showing that there's more construction. Looking at just second generation. So happy to dive more into what some of those studies are. It gets even more complicated because the ones that show less supply or less construction, most of them are from either Ontario, California, or Germany. All of the studies showing that there's no impact are from New Jersey or Catalonia. So I think that that really points to just, there's so much that we don't know and so much that varies depending on how the system is designed. So I'm not sure with that report that you were quoting from three years ago but if I had to guess I would think that that's probably the difference is that that report was looking at all of rent regulation policies and the 2023 report was specifically looking at second generation rent stabilization policies. Gotcha. And I mean, I guess that's a great differential to make because again, I want to make sure that we're keeping the rent prices overall. And I know that you guys did a great and wonderful chart showing how, for the most part, as an average, the landlords and the tenant prices in Rockefeller have been below or under the voluntary rent guidelines. I want to make sure that we're doing even better from economic forces. And I know that, you know, just a few months ago, and, you know, I'm a data-driven guy in research. There was in the Journal of Housing Economics, and this is March in 2024, there was a peer reviewed article by Constantine Cloted, and that literally is entitled Rent Control Effects through a lens of empirical research, an almost complete review of the literature going through. And I don't know if this is exactly my concern, because he says, in this study, I examined a wide range of empirical studies on rent control, published in referred journals between 1967 and 2023. I conclude that although rent control appears to be very effective in achieving lower rents for families in control units, its primary goal, it also results in a number of undesired effects, including among others, higher rent for uncontrolled units, lower mobility, reduced residential construction, and these unintended effects counteract the desired effect, thus diminishing the net benefit of rent control, and therefore the overall impact of rent control policy on the welfare of society is not clear. I'm concerned, and I want to support any policy, whether it's rent stabilization, whether it's supply that helps to get the rentals low. I'm just with all of these kind of commentary about rent stabilization. I'm cautious. I'm glad you brought up that, that academic literature review, because that's what I looked at, wasn't able to make it into the staff report time. But I dug into all of the studies that he did and broke it down by which ones were first generation and what the result was. So it was then interesting to see that like he was making that conclusion two thirds that's all of the rent stable or all of the rent regulation studies that were looked at and The ones that I just quoted to you were specifically the second generation rent regulation studies that That he included in that academic literature review so it It's tough. It is thank you. I appreciate that clarification Thank you. I appreciate that clarification. Thank you. I saw Councillor Jackson, but can we, are you willing to let Councillor Michelle go next and then Councillor Jackson? First off, thank you so much for the staff report and the presentation. I have a lot of questions, so you may have to come back to me again. I certainly will. Thank you. So just to clarify the O.L. Overport, I mean that's essentially a pathway in terms of providing some recommendations and some best practices on the second generation rent stabilization where I think there's like 200 or so bills across the country, correct? There are 200 jurisdictions that have some kind of rent regulation policy. OLO looked at studies about second generation rent regulation policies. They provided some recommendations of things to consider, but they didn't necessarily recommend a policy itself. But the rent stabilization that we are looking at, it would fall into the second generation and not the previous rent control. All of that is up to the pleasure of the mayor and the council. Okay and so my other question is so the new the findings on new construction that comes from the second generation. In the OOLO report, yes. Yeah, okay. And then my other question is going back to, I have so many questions. The three FTEs, since our approach is not just about rent stabilization, we're also looking at increasing supply. We're also looking at the three F's, right? Those three FTEs, were they just for rent stabilization? Or because I think if we're looking to staff up, I think we should look at our overall policy and that's how we should staff up. But just me, you really cannot give you a definitive answer on how many FTEs it would take for rents, typosation alone, or you know, your overall housing policy until we know what our direction is. That was a complete ballpark figure I gave. OK. But a ballpark specifically for rent stabilization. OK. I also want to quickly just go over some or highlight some things around equity. Could you pull up the slide where it talks about the social and economic impacts? Is it the slide or a different one? Well, actually, no, we can keep it on the side. One of the things, can you just talk a little bit more and provide a little bit more details on the social equity and social justice impacts? I know one of the things that it says is it would not be anticipated to break down barriers to home ownership or alter the existing geography of residential segregation. But because rent stabilization, if done right, does allow tenants to save money, wouldn't that also be addressing a barrier to home ownership? It depends on if you're able to save enough for a down payment and then also still if you're you might be able to save up enough money for a down payment but not actually be able to pay the month to month mortgage. So it would really depend on the person that might you know be something that that contributes towards making that a little bit more in reach for some people. But as a whole, it wouldn't be expected to advance home ownership as directly as some other policies might. Okay. And I just wanted to just further record the end of LACP did draft a letter of support for rent stabilization. They shared it with me. I'm just going to take a few seconds just to summarize the letter. On behalf of Montgomery County branch of the end of the ACP, I write to express our support for the enactment of rent stabilization measures for rental housing in the city of Rothville. We support the enactment of such measures because predictable rents, not only benefit renters, but also benefit all members of the community because such measures provide stability in the lives of tenants and reduce residential displacement and dislocation. They go on to site the racial equity and social justice impact statement for the county's bill that did a very thorough analysis of that. Quote, there is strong evidence that regulations are effective in supporting housing affordability and stability for tenants in regulated units. Studies have overwhelmingly found that tenants in regulated units stay in their homes for longer than tenants in non-regulated units. Further, several studies have found that rent regulations disproportionately benefit by POP tenants. And there's just three quick points. We believe that a minimum such as such a measure would include provisions establish an annual maximum rent increase for rental housing provide exemptions for certain buildings for rent civilisation regulations permit a landlord to submit a petition for rent increase to obtain a fair return and limit rent increases for vacant units. And I will share this letter with the city clerk and you can make a comment. You all received it today in the written comments. Everybody received a copy of all written comments received on rent stabilization. What time was that just for college? Between 23330 around that time Judy sent out the speakers list and then she sent out I just want to share it. I just want to share it. All right. Thank you. Because they were not able to make community for. So I did want to share that with a lot of you. I have seen the community. Thank you. I do have some more questions, but you can come back. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I was seeing Tim meet on me. I do have some more questions, but you can come back. Thank you, I appreciate that. Council Member Jackson. Thank you, mirror. So I will make this quick, because I've already asked a lot of questions from staff and thank you for getting back to me with the answers. First of all, thank you to all the attestor-motor that we heard from renters at community forum. Like Council Member Ben-Grac, it was impressive that you were out, that you were telling us about your experience, because that is fundamental to actually being able to address the issues. And your issues are real. And I want you to know that you're heard. I'm not exactly sure what this body will be able to do and will ultimately decide moving forward. But your testimony or money will definitely be in my head going forward when we're trying to make decisions. So I just want to say that because I think it takes a lot of courage to get up to stand up and to speak in front of public body. And I know for a primatesparence how tough it is. So thank you for that because I think that was really needed. And it's a testimony to how pervasive this problem is that we had almost 50 people on both sides. But the majority were people with rental experience sharing the stories and telling about how the economy is not really working for them. And so I just really appreciate that. That said, I want to thank staff for the excellent briefing and really diving in on short notice and giving us an overview of rent stabilization, what it means, the different criteria that are out there from rent control to rent stabilization, to price-couching. And I want to explore some of that further. One question that I had is, I believe it's number 11 of my 12 questions of staff. But I was asking, what is the impact on non-Rent stabilized housing in the marking around the region or county that has an acted rent stabilization. And you said this would be addressed in rent stabilization presentation and discussion of the July 8th meeting. I don't think I heard that, so I just wanted to give you a chance to answer that. Apologies for that. That is a question that would require a deeper dive. And so if we are directed to further study run stabilization, then that would be something that we could look into comparing building permits before and after doing that deeper dive into how run stabilization has impacted jurisdictions around the region. OK. And I would say, as you're doing that research, you might want to look at page 16 of the O-L-O report, which says that a study of rent regulations in the Boston area found that the rents of non-regulated units were lower in areas where the higher percentage of rent regulated units compared to in areas where the higher representatives of rent regulated units compared to areas where the lower representatives of rent regulated units. So at least the answer was in the ORA report, we're not read through it. Now, on another question, and then I'll turn it over to my colleagues, because I know they have many questions as well. But it kind of duptels on what Council Member Miles was talking about the cost to implement a regulatory regime, whether it's rent civilization, whether it's code enforcement, beefed up tennis rights, which I'm in favor of, but take the other approach. So what about when down the road when you have rent civilization. Is there a possibility that you're going to have valuations going down on these properties that are rent stabilized or rent controlled? And when those properties go down a value, then the taxes that we receive go down. Yes, I believe that there have been cases where property values have been found to decrease, and that then would have an impact on the tax base. As would there be an impact on the tax base if rents, stabilization, disincentivized, disincentivized construction and investment within the city, then that would be expected to impact revenue as well. And to go back to your first question, were you interested, and I'm sorry that I don't have your questions in front of me right now, were you interested in impacts on doing a comparison regionally within the DC metropolitan region or just comparisons generally of how jurisdictions have seen construction change before and after-run stabilization? I think, well, not really construction change. The way I read it, and so maybe I need to go back and read it again or we can talk about a line, but I'm talking about existing units. So they were comparing existing units that were not rent controlled to units that were. And they were saying that the effect was that in non- rent controlled units, they actually were seeing a decrease in cash. Not as much increase as the one is expected because the rent-control had a dampening effect. So I just found that curious and just wanted it to explore that further. And the one other thing I would say, and this is just in general, as I was going around talking to people, they brought up stabilization, rent control, but just as frequently, or even more frequently, they were talking about other reasons that they were leaving Rothville, or thinking about leaving Rothville, and then had to do with the management company that had to do with not getting repairs fast enough, that had to do with, well, it is, they're not getting their apartments repaired fast enough but also not doing maintenance on the building. So I just feel like you know we have a lot of issues around apartments but truly one of the biggest ones right now is that I don't think we have enough affordable housing in Rockville, and I want to do everything I can to ensure that we're going to have a future where we do have affordable housing. One on the point, I'm sorry, Mayor, I just remembered this one. So I was asking about the chart, which had the various cities or counties and their percentage of housing, I forget where it was. But I remember that Rockville was 6% and that was wrong. I think it was 50%. That's correct, 50%. So it's 50%. Doesn't that still put us near the bottom of that jarg? I believe it puts us more in the middle. We are working with, hand, the Housing Association of Nonprofit Developers to see if they can change their materials to reflect the correct data. But we'll get back to you on that. Hopefully they'll be able to make that change sometime soon. All right. Well, thank you, Mayor, for that time. Thank you. I see Councilmember Fulton. Can I just ask two questions? If that's okay. Okay. Is Rockville currently actively pursuing affordable housing developers or partnerships besides our long-standing relationship with R.E.G.? Because I know in other jurisdictions they're actually raising funds for housing opportunity funds and having seed money and literally going out and attracting people who are going to focus on affordable housing. To me it has to be intentional because most of the properties that we'll see come through are often higher end. And, you know, they're trying to compete with a lot of luxury amenities like dogwashing stations and conference rooms and all those things to contribute to the cost for my question is, is the department now, or yet focused on partnerships with Non-profit housing developers that would look at bring in more affordability to the base rents Yet I know it's an outcome plan of do so so it may not have gotten to it yet But I just wanted to ask that question. I would say that we're not actively We're so into right now, but the fact that we have this much more Invested housing opportunity for them than we did two years ago, I would say that we're all going to have to become a more deliberate and distracting work of housing partners here. I would also add that we are excited for having a new permanent director on board who brings a lot of experience and partnerships with different non-profit housing affordable housing developers. So that's something that I imagine and look forward to happening more in the upcoming year once he's on board. I know that we were talking about opportunities with Stone Street that we were talking about. I know I brought one forward to say, hey, we need more affordability. How can we collaborate? And I've mentioned the opportunity work with community development finance institutions. I just want to make sure we're looking at, as we talk about that workshop, because $1,200 $1,200 is still a lot. So we have to find ways to bring in rents that are lower than that. We're certainly still having active conversations with affordable housing developers, such as with folks looking to develop the Stone Street site. We had a meeting the other day about a potential new project in town center. So there are certainly still things that are happening, but there's still more that we hope to do in the future to actively reach out to folks. And the other thing is that there are some buildings and units that are, that we do have players. I won't name all of them right now, or because I don't want to put them on the spot. But we don't have a central list of those besides the MPDU page. We don't have a central list of those properties that focus on affordability. That's correct, that's something we definitely want to do. Because I just want to make it easier, better, faster, so renters are not scouring. And then we're looking at who needs that help from an equity lens. We should be making it more accessible. So I think there's a lot of room for protections improvement on how we can align and know that was to get new leadership. I know that you all have been really doing double time on jobs but that's on my wish list. Council member Fulton. Yeah, thank you and thanks for the presentation. I'm gonna let you off the hook because I'm not going to couch these questions. They're not. Like we're having it. So I feel the obligation to share my, how I'm thinking about this and what my challenges are with everybody. It's a discussion. And I guess the first thing and it's a good, just as an aside, but it carries through. One of the things I've observed in my life that is the biggest challenge in making good happen is unfunded mandates. Like, we cannot make decisions without funding them because it compounds over time. Why don't we have the list of all the red increases? Why haven't we updated the code? Why haven't we engaged with affordable housing partnerships? Why haven't we done this? Because we didn't fund it. And the reason why, and I offer that, because it feeds into my approach, I will say like all of my colleagues said there is a problem that needs to be solved. 100% without a doubt, we need to do something for renters. Some of the things I in particular heard that resonated with me today were, you know, someone, I think Council Member Van Grax said it, you know, can my son afford to live here down the road? Somebody from Interfaith works talks about like, are we pricing out diversity? That phrase is awful. Are we pricing out diversity? And then another person talking about, we as a locality as a country are running out of money to help people and the danger of attaining middle class. Those things resonated and convinced me even more than anything else that there's a problem that needs solving. But here's a thing that makes us hard because of the way I approach things. And I ran to serve because I was thinking about Rockville 20 years from now. And what that means is when we approach a problem, looking at it from what does the greatest good for the greatest number over the longest time horizon. And to do that, you need to think through, can we have finite resources? How do you allocate the resources in the way that will do the most good? It is, you can't have unfunded mandates. There are only so many resources to go around. And they're the residents, it's the residents money. So, and then the unintended consequences. What are the long term unattended consequences of what you're doing in this vacuum. What that means is to me, it all boils down to the human side aside, it is a cost-benefit analysis. And in this scenario, I don't have enough information to either quantify the cost or the benefit. But we don't know what the cost is. And I mean that both in dollars to administer a program and cost to other things, right? Opportunities you forego, things that might have. I don't know. And I also don't actually know the benefits because we don't have the information. Somebody mentioned it earlier, who are the actual residents affected by a cost in, like, who's getting displaced? How do we know that? How do we track that? I don't know the magnitude of the problem. So I just wanted to share that that's where really hard for me to like, forcibly get behind any program if I can't feel confident in the cost benefit analysis. Just wanted to share where I was coming from. Yeah. No, I appreciate that. I will just say this, we have a code that has requirements and we have to at least decide are we going to change that code or are we going to fund it? We can't not do and just have nothing. So when we go through budget season, if we are out of compliance with code, we need help to say here's what we're not doing and we can't do because we don't have time or resources and working with the city manager, the mayor and Council can make decisions about making those changes. But I have serious concerns about where we are in terms of quality housing because of some of the things that we're not yet implementing. And that's not on, you know, there's decades before us that got us here, you know, but's decades before us that got us here, that, you know, and, but we have to, I think we have to pretty quickly take a critical look at what is in chapter 18 and discuss what are we either going to change or we're going to fix because we cannot follow. This is our code and we can't be out of compliance with our own language. And that is one of the recommendations that we have for you all to select as a short temporities updating chapter 18. I do want to tease out the difference though between parts of chapter 18 that we are not able to implement such as the reporting requirements that are there towards the end of chapter 18. And that's certainly something that we want to have a discussion about because we think that there are ways to go about that that might make more sense. We're currently having conversations in the meantime about how can we begin to collect that data that we're supposed to be collecting as per code. And then there are also things that might not be followed in code because the landlord is not following them. And that is on us to try to make sure that landlords are following the code as much as possible. We really only, we hear about those things like a landlord didn't give me my correct 90 day notice when tenants reach out to us and file a complaint. And that's when we step in and we try to do that mediation. We have the Lunar Tenet Commission. So there are things in chapter 18 that are broken by landlords, by tenants frequently, and we work with them to make sure that they are then following the code instead. So I do want to tease out the difference between those two things. Now I, Jen, I definitely appreciate that. And there's some things apart of our code we could make sure that they're in compliance. And we hold the power of the license. So if people are not compliant, they don't have a license. That's power that we as a city have to make sure that our tenants are being protected. And I think that's an important, you know, we look at carrots and sticks. So the other thing I was going to say in terms of following our code, which I think would be important is, you know, some of us have been talking about the importance of transparency when a renter goes to make a big decision about where to live. You can get better information about getting a car than you can about where you're going to live. And that's a serious concern. I believe, and I know many of my colleagues believe that renters should know what is the history of increases. What are the fees? Because we did hear from some folks that they are getting junk fees. And I know the president of White House has spoken about junk fees. They should have that information. In addition, the county has a distressed building less. Brant to should be able to see where they're a major co-violation, so that they can make decisions about whether they're going to choose to be in that building ahead of time versus being surprised after. The other thing I'll say is, in addition to the affordability and quality concerns I mentioned I do have serious concerns about our supply. We have a critical opportunity to turn some of these vacant office buildings into housing and I want to make sure that the city does that. There's a lot of vacancy and there's some distressed buildings, not from the perspective of the way the county talks about distressed buildings, but distressed buildings that may be going back to the banks. And we have some folks up and saying, I wanna redevelop here. We need staff's guidance on making sure that we don't do anything that will inhibit supply as well, because we definitely need more housing in addition to baseline affordability pricing. And so I think there's a lot of complicated webs here in the macroeconomics. And that's one thing I didn't quite see, and I know there was limited time on what is the macroeconomic activity, what's happening in Rockvilleville and what up potential impacts. Councillor Bouchard. Thank you. I did want to kind of circle back to the conversation on rent stabilization, which is focused on cost. I wanted to ask in the presentation it talks about reach and so can you just provide some more details why rent stabilization has much farther reach than other affordable housing programs I think based on the comp plan in the housing element. I believe our affordable housing programs touch about 10% of our overall housing and considering that in 2022, 55.7% of renters were cost burdened close to 29% of homeowners were cost burden. We're talking about tens of thousands of people and I know that a lot of our programs are fully inefficient. So I just wanted, when we're looking at the problem and the more urgent issue of people being displaced, I wanted to know if you can share a little bit more about the reach of rent stabilization. Sure, and that reach depends on how it's crafted, the thing that I'm saying a million times tonight, of course. I mean, potentially, you could craft a policy that stabilizes rents for every rent-renter-occupied unit, which would be that full number of nearly 13,000 units within the city of Rockville. If you're looking at, since many policies, exclude new construction, this really gets back to the rent or occupied housing units chart, housing units chart, which shows what year structures were built. So if you were to exempt any construction after 2010, that would be 25% of rental housing. So then you would only be reaching 75% of rental-occupied housing units. But of course, I think the point they were getting at there as well is that no matter how the policy is crafted, it's not a means-tested program, so it's helping anyone and affecting anyone who is a Renter, whether or not they have low income or not? Yeah, because I know that 55.7 percent that's not just low income renters. That's a higher percentage of renters that are being impacted. someone here talked about being from the middle class and how rent stabilization is a very broad policy our current affordable housing program I think is very narrow and rent stabilization would build on that. And then I have another, I just wanted to also just talk up just being the only tenant current tenant right now on here. I did just want to talk about a little bit about the difference between conditions and costs. As a tenant that a year ago or a year or half ago, my ceiling fell in, in my kitchen, and I was sick for my husband and I were sick for a couple of weeks. And we still had to pay next month's rent. And we still had to pay the following rent, and then we got a 20% increase. And so regardless of the conditions that you're dealing with, it's important to note you still have to pay next month's rent and considering that the majority of renters are cost burdened which one unreasonable rent increased. One unfortunate life situation, divorce, medical bill, car accident, whatever can put you in a situation where The issue is keeping a roof over your head. I Think it's important to stress that this conversation is about cost and I do want to talk and we need to talk about cost and I do want to talk and we need to talk about conditions and I would like to do that in a way that is prepared like this conversation where we can get the facts first from staff and talk about conditions but I do think because of the urgency of so many renters, many here tonight sharing their stories, I think it's important for this conversation, which we scheduled about 100 days ago, that we focus on mental stabilization and cost and have a prepared conversation around conditions. And I just didn't want to confuse the two because regardless of what you are going through as a mentor, you still have to pay back some months, right? Thank you. I will just add that when looking at a lot of the reviews on the apartments in Rockville from some of the previous testimonies we've had. Quality of housing is a huge issue. So I do think that it's got to be at the forefront. And I think quality of housing is about stability. I was a renter most of my life. And I can tell you the severe impacts that my family experienced on our health because our house was not maintained. And it pains me deeply that there are things in our code or the things in state law that people may or may not know to help protect our residents. And we could be doing better now. I actually got phone calls from principals who said my student cannot sleep at night in the home that they're living in. That's a big deal and I can tell you that I worked with CPDS to help get that fixed. But it shouldn't get to the point where principal has to call a council member. I was a council member at the time. And so I just would say there's an urgency there as well. People deserve a safe place to live. And we talked about that we would be raising tenant protection issues. And we need to, this part of our code, we need to do it. Council Member Fulton. Hey, this time maybe our code, we need to do it. Councilmember Fulton. OK, this time maybe I do have a question. And I will say like some of my colleagues, I had a lot of conversations, a lot of reading, thanks to staff, but I was relatively naive to this issue several months ago. And on the cost conditions question, it's an interesting distinction. What I think is helpful about tonight is we've been talking about rent stabilization, and we've been hearing from residents about cost, conditions, and increases for months now. And this is the first conversation we've had where we've actually defined what it is we're talking about. And I was coming at it from what I knew about the state bill, that talked about renters rights and stabilization, and did not talk in any way about capping cost increases. So I just offered that to think when I came at it from the framework of the state bill on renters rights and stabilization, I thought it was about all of the ways to address renter problems, intents rights and costs and conditions. So I wanted to offer that. The other thing I wanted to clarify, because we've talked a lot about the benefit to renters. There is a lot of benefit to renters. But my understanding is throughout the presentation, and you just said something that triggered this question. Just so I've got the right framework when we're talking about the benefits and the impacts, we are talking about the benefits to existing renters staying in their current unit. So we're not talking about the benefits to potential renters, people that are looking for housing in the city, people that are renting in a unit right now and may need to move to a different one because they need more space or they need to, right, where time out, existing renters staying in their current unit. Yes. When you use the word from it. When you use the word from it. Those are the primary beneficiaries of rent stabilization. Thanks. I have a couple more hands coming up. I am going to note that it's 11.35. So I promise I would do a time check at 11.30. And so here you are. Council member Valeri. Thank you. I realized I didn't even ask my question last time. I spoke. And I didn't thank you all either. So I want to add my thanks. And you may have answered this previously in some of our background briefings. I am having a moment where I just can't remember if I saw it. So in the presentation on the slide of the exemptions, or even if you just wanted to use the county spill as like a baseline because we're not reacting to any language we are, as you've noted frequently, a lot of these things are dependent upon whatever language, you know, the body agrees to and whatever way. Using the exemptions listed, how many renters approximation, how many renters in Rockville would be covered by a renstabilization bill in Rockville? Does that make sense? How I said that? I know it's late. It makes sense? Okay, I can't do that math quickly for you up here. Totally OK. I can't do that math later. No, no. And that's totally OK, because I think that that will also, for me, help frame it. And then I apologize for putting you on the spot like that, Ms. Raider. Because I think that I'm kind of somewhere in the middle between the very data-driven person, but also the emotional side of things. I also know that whatever solution that we are seeking to alleviate a multitude of crises, right? But, you know, this body could approve something tomorrow on Red Stabilization. However, we define it, and it's not going to happen tomorrow. It's just not going to happen tomorrow. So, what are the more, you know, immediate things that we can do? People who have been coming, you know, who testified tonight, who've been coming over the last months, they need something literally tomorrow. What can we actually do, maybe not literally tomorrow, but what can we do more quickly than any promulgation or adjustment of the code? And I wanted to put it out there because I think I mentioned this last time we talked about affordable housing. We need a short term solution for right now in a long term solution. And I think that those are the various legs of the stool. And the one leg of the stool that I think we couldn't possibly move on. Would be the subsidy leg of it. And I'm really intrigued and I can talk about it a little bit later. I don't know, maybe one o'clock in the morning, one more so talking, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. No, no, I'm really intrigued by the City of College Park recently passed a pilot program that would grant subsidies to full-time undergraduate students who would qualify for a federal Pell grant and have a rental lease in a college park apartment or house, rather. And then another 60 that would be given to full-time graduate students with a lease in college park earning 60% or less of the area meeting income. They're just doing it as a pilot. This is in the context of what's happening in Prince George's County. And for me, I could see, again, not knowing the budget implications. I could see that moving more quickly, perhaps than the overall promulgation of rent stabilization, ordinance, or code changes. So I just wanted to throw that out there. I feel like I've said short term long term, like a bajillion times when we've been talking about this. But I think that's really important to focus on because there are something that we could in theory do more quickly. And to that extent, last point, the condition aspect, and I completely appreciate my colleagues saying we need to focus on the costs. However, holding people to account for unhealthy conditions is something that we should be doing anyways and we could be doing tomorrow. And the fact that it is a serious public health crisis and ultimately one of the most prevalent health disparity is in the unsafe conditions and unresolved conditions. And I'm also going to defer to my other colleague, Councilmember Dr. Miles, on health disparities. Excuse me. That is something that we should, you know, be very acutely focused on because we could be doing that very quickly. And I think it's something that should have been done for a long time. But hey, we just got elected, so we'll do that. Yeah, I'll end it there. But I think that that's where, at least I can say for myself, that's where I'm coming from on the acuteness of the crises and what we can do. Thank you. I'll have two questions. I see Councilman Frank-Gracke and I see Councilman Rashad. I asked for a list of where the most most of the complaints are coming from and I was just listening to your comments on the 23-year piece and a good number of these properties would not be covered. So we're hearing the most complaints. They would not be covered under the county's rent stabilization piece. That would be something for you to consider when crafting a rent stabilization policy. Yeah, I just, I wanted to flag that consideration. Also learning from the past, I asked what was the history among our county in the past in terms of rents stabilization. If you look at the United States, rents stabilization has come up when there's an acute crisis, whether that's the depression or the war. There's a spike in inflation, prices get out of control, and then people suffer. And then there's a reaction to do the policy to try to help residents. I was involved on Council when we froze rent increases during COVID. I know it had a ripple effect later, but we had to make that decision because people didn't have jobs. And so I take whatever responsibility on that, but I do think it was the right thing to do at the time. But we also just have to think about what are the ripple effects and things. So in the past Montgomery County policy, there was the commentary around one of their decisions on why to repeal it was that they were experiencing a lot of condo conversions and high inflation installed construction. What about the Montgomery policy now would prevent condo conversions? That is a good question that I'm not sure I have the answer to off the top of my head. I'm not sure it bans condo conversions in the same way that they changed the policy in the 70s and 80s to fully ban condo conversions. So it can look into that for you and get an answer. Okay, that will be super helpful. Council member Van Greck. So I just wanna follow up and actually, two things that Council member Fulton said, one, you know, there's the issue of unfunded mandates, but one of my big concerns here is the potential consequences are unintended consequences of the action. But also what Councilmember Fulton said that, you know, what we're crafting here with a potential rent stabilization or the price caps on rental and newer rates really are only happening or helping those current renters in their current unit with regard to potential consequences for the rental community as a whole, depending on what happens with regard to stability. And two things that came up in some of the briefings that I was at, that at least either want to discuss with my colleagues one, and it was actually Council Member Jackson. And one of our briefings talked about positive reinforcements and some type of positive reinforcement we could possibly give to adherence to the voluntary rent guidelines, whether there's a certificate or some type of notoriety or notice with regard to a landlord that actually does adhere to the voluntary rent guidelines. And the other thing was, I think it was a discussion with the mayor, with regard to disclosures. Because there's been a lot of discussions about fee disclosures, but what about a disclosure with regard to an incoming renter with regard to what the rental increases were in that particular unit or that particular building so that there could be a full disclosure and the landlord would know that whatever they've been charging for the rental or newer rates will be part of the disclosure. So I would just bring up to my colleagues as potential options that might not have the unintended consequences of a more strict mandatory cap. Thank you. I did raise the, and I completely agree that renters need better information to make more informed choices. And if you look at, for example, nursing home compares a tool. You can see how many beds or the hospital is contributing to and make an informed choice about we're not going there. We don't have that. And so that's why I mentioned fees, increases, but also code compliance. And there are things within our code, as well as within our rental license collection that we could at least collect some of those already. And I think it's critical that we consider enforcing our code and making that information available to renters. OK, Councilmember Shaw, I see see you next and I know I interrupted you because you asked me a question, but are you done? It was more just kind of as a discussion point to my colleagues and so I guess you're obviously one of my colleagues, so it would be to you as well, but I know one of those issues that you brought up on our briefing, so. I think most people from what I've heard in the past are open to this, you know, making sure there's more transparency. That's a common thread that I've heard from all of us. And that's something that we can include in the Housing Priorities follow-up discussion because it definitely sounds like there's similar interest in that. Yep. Councilmember Michelle. Yeah, just a few things that I was taking note in the discussion. So I just want to be clear around the conditions. I think it warrants its own conversation where we have staff to get the facts just as they did for rent stabilization, data, whatever type of information we can gather first for us to have a conversation. And so, and I think that conversation needs to happen, but I would just like to do it in more of a planned fact gathering way. And And then when we're talking about who benefits from rent stabilization, I know we primarily think that it's renters and I think for the most part those who benefit or disproportionately benefit are like lower to moderate income. So, I just want to interrupt. I'm just noting there is a feed issue again. We're hearing that. It's down. So people, I didn't hear Councilmember Van Grack. And I hopefully that can hear you, Shell. But I just wanted to make sure we're working on it to get that fixed. Thank you. Sorry. Go ahead. I just wanted to speak to who benefits. So when we're talking about, I think you answer this primarily, it can be existing lower income to moderate income tenants. But those benefits extend to folks that are homeowners that are a cost burden that are oftentimes seniors. There was one person here that shared that she is a cost burden landlord and she was concerned about not being able to pay for her home and she wants to stay in her community. And so when you have rent stabilization you may have more affordable options to stay in your community. Also I've spoken to a number of seniors and based on the county's increase, like the property tax increase that have made them more cost burden, rent stabilization, overall, provides more opportunity. I also think if we think about this more than beyond the financial benefits, and we think about this more than beyond the financial benefits and we think about how we're building our community in terms of essential workers, teachers, firefighters, folks like that, being able to stay in the community. I think there's some other benefits that I think the O'Wallow report does a really good job of covering. So I just wanted to share that information. And then when we're talking about timing, I, Council Member Vellieri, I do like your idea about, and thinking about the tens of thousands that are hurting, rent stabilization does cover that amount of people. And I think that we can do a lot of things at the same time. For example, like if we do rent stabilization, we should certainly continue our MPDU program that is more targeted to lower income folks at the same time. And we should definitely improve it as well. But I do think one of one of the benefits of rent stabilization in comparison to a lot of the other options that you provided on our June 3rd packet is that it actually is a bit more immediate in that we have more of the decision making power and how we want to move that forward. Where, for example, in PDU's, we are reliant on our partners in the real estate industry to increase that. So I do think in terms of timing, it's a pretty reasonable program. And that's it. Thank you for your comments. Just because we're talking about potentially having another discussion, I just wanted to note the transparency initiative and potentially ways to provide not only the transparency but a carrot for people to be able to get not a gold star but a recognition of being a good actor. I also think that those who are not good actors should stand that on that list so that people can make an informed choice and see while that particular building is a red. I generally think, and I mentioned earlier, the notice and grace time for renters in terms of notice of increases as well as if they, the landlady's day of license more grace time to leave versus the 60 days. Improving quality in code housing compliance, I would like to have a discussion on what would it take to do more code compliance on multifamily homes. We are treating those in multifamily, those in single family differently, significantly. One gets every two years, one gets every five. And that has a quality impact. There are a number of things that we could be doing to better educate both landlords and tenants. We do not currently have a landlord tenant handbook. So a resident may not know that if a landlord does not fix anything, that is a code violation. They may not know that they could landlord does not fix anything, that is a code violation. They may not know that they could deduct the cost of a fix if it's not fixed timely. And I've looked at the list of challenges of what people are complaining and a lot of those properties have had new ownership. We should be educating landlords on how we operate in Rockville because I know as a council member that there were some new owners that came in and weren't even getting their rental licenses. So we just need to increase the education. I would also advocate for annual renter and landlord meetings. We did them during COVID. We need to continue that regularly. Thinking about the heat and quality, I was looking through our code and it talks about a working kitchen and what's required for the stove, but people cannot afford to be without air conditioning right now. At a basic level, I know the county is looking at emergency preparedness and a unit is more than eight degrees of our period of time. We have a lot of seniors who could suffer a heat stroke. So that's something as we look at the next conversation I'd like to see. I mentioned earlier the ease in identifying affordable housing for tenants, making a list of those partners. I also think that we only list MPDUs when there's availability, but people should be able to get on wait list. We also have MPDU's coming up that are available, and we shouldn't be able to make sure people are getting on that list. There are ones that are going to be available as of September. And I heard a resident saying that they went to one building, but they didn't know that there was another place to go. We need to continue our new home ownership opportunities, increase affordable and attainable units. There's a lot of things that we can do on the supply under different ways to do stabilization, expanding MPDU development requirements right now. We have a property that's going to be building new units and has no affordability because we haven't implemented a comprehensive plan recommendation. We need to be getting out ahead when we're hearing from residents that there's a trend going on with the building. We need to be mediating those buildings of concern and getting in there, having meetings with the owners. And I also think we need to improve our rental assistance program. I think it's awful that people have to wait until they're at the point of eviction to get help. I know that we can also do more utility help if there's more funding needed that's something we need to know. And I agree with my colleague on some of the subsidy opportunities, so I hope that in future discussions we can also learn more about those factors. The Councilman Van Graek. You know, I'm listening to what you're saying. I heard a lot of, you know, specific headshaking on a lot of those issues. I'll even just, you know, send out the mayor can't necessarily make a motion. I have no problem making a motion specifically now to direct staff to prepare for a discussion for our next affordable housing work session for new renter protections in Rockville, including actions to address proper rental conditions, enforce code violations, and incentives to address, no initiatives, to address housing affordability and transparency, including but not limited to disclosures on fees, disclosures on past rental increases, and programs to incentivize adherence to voluntary rent guidelines, but without mandatory hard caps on rental renewal rates. Come to our bulletin. If that was a motion, I'll second it. Can I ask a clarifying question? So are you saying that those are all things when we have this short-term housing priorities discussion that would essentially be on the list as being up for discussion as part of that selection process? Correct. And potentially get more information about the possibility of what that would look like in a code or the consequences of those actions. Okay I think that part might be difficult without further direction. I don't know Barack, do you like to speak to that? Yeah so I think it might help staff for us to really have given the conversation the two conversations that we've had the footability and tonight's conversation, to really get a sense from a council and from what we are staff, I prepare there's some specific recommendations and from last discussions that you all had, things that you'd like to see come back before you, like for instance, APDU, from tonight's discussions, there's specific things that you say you'd like to, I mean transparency, things to hold, line was accountable, and for us as staff, we want to take this conversation and then have a follow-up to provide this policy menu so to speak so that you all can collectively make a decision on, hey, we have staff, we recommend that we proceed with, you know, this key policy or this key initiatives to move forward. Are you all in alignment or are there some, is there consensus how we are going to proceed moving forward with the policy proposal that we will have presented before? You're given some of the conversations that we've had, the two conversations that we will have presented before you given some of the conversations that we've had, the two conversations that we've had so that we can have a definitive next step that's clearly a consensus from the body and it's also clearly focused so that we all can agree on what we're doing moving forward when it comes to housing. And I think that's what this motion is trying to do. Give a direction of where to focus that attention from staff. I think the direction that I would need is what specifically do you need for me to research? That was a long list of things. And I'm happy to provide some preliminary research on all of those things and to include them on the list. But I guess we would need to have further conversations on how in depth what is the information that you need as a decision maker in order to make the decisions that you'll be asked to make? I think those are the general topics of areas of discussion. I know we've given examples on the each of those and we could share those questions with you in advance, obviously, before the next discussion. I know we've given examples on each of those and we could share those questions with you in advance, obviously, before the next discussion. But I think that what we want to hear from you is you said there's a lot of directions you can go in. You have finite time. So we're trying to make sure that we're being clear about what we want you to cover. Councilor Bershaw. I just wanted to hear my cast. Just a few things to add to the discussion before we make some decisions. So. No, no. There's been a motion and a second. So now this we're in discussion. So I think it's fair for her to speak. Oh, no, I just wanted to make sure where we were in the process. Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted to go back to what you were saying about the, um, looking at trying to help renters before they get to the point of eviction in the context of a rent stabilization conversation. So rent stabilization is very effective in helping renters and it's a sustainable policy and helping renters curb eviction. And so I just wanted to just like put that out there before we start talking about other issues because we are in the context of a rent stabilization conversation. And then, you know, I definitely agree in terms of more transparency with fees. And this is another area where rent stabilization because fees are oftentimes a loophole with rent stabilization. And I think it was noted in our briefing packet. And I think the county has a really great example with their regulations and how they regulate fees. Our fees, it's just like, there's no regulations at all. Someone was telling me about a fee that they're getting now for eight dollars a day if they have visitor parking and it was just randomly added. RUN stabilization is really helpful in terms of regulating fees and the county just went through several months of looking at ways that they can regulate fees. So I just wanted to add that. And I, one of the questions that I have and one of the things that I need more information on I would like to see to add to the list is if you could provide a brief description of each of the components based on the county's bill, how that would impact Rockville. For example, with new construction going back to 2000, I think 48.1% of rental units in Rockville wouldn't be covered if we decided to automatically apply the rent stabilization of the county to Rockville. And so in trying to make some decisions in the future during our August meeting, having some information on the specifics, because I think we've been talking about rent stabilization in a very theoretical way, which is fine because this was a preliminary conversation. But to have some more specifics using actual numbers and data, because rent stabilization is really based on its impact and how it's meaningful is really based on the design features of it. And so I think it's really important that we kind of move a little bit from the theoretical and start looking at some more specifics, and that would be really helpful in trying to make a decision if you could like do a brief description on each of the components based on the county's legislation and how that would impact Rockwell I think you have a lot of that information and data it would just be pulling it together That's one thing I wanted to ask Thank you I would just ask councilman Van Grack If you could restate your motion because I just want to make sure it's clear. Yeah, and I want to be clear. I mean, my point in bringing these up is because I believe these initiatives that have been brought up here are things that won't necessarily have the unintended negative consequences of the rent stabilization and the rent control, which is why I'm suggesting that staff focus on these issues as opposed to the mandatory hard caps on rental and newer ways. Sure, sure. All right, hopefully I can get exactly the same. The motion would be to direct staff to prepare for discussion for our next affordable housing work session for rental renewal, for rental protections for new rental protections in Rockville, including actions to better address improper rental conditions, enforce code violations, and initiatives to address it housing affordability and transparency, including but not limited to disclosures on fees, past rental increases and programs to incentivize adherence to voluntary rental guidelines but without mandatory hard caps on rental renewal rates. So to just walk through how that would look in the briefing, a lot of those things are already included on that list, that policy menu that was presented on June 3rd. So essentially the things that were not included, I would provide the same sort of information that I provided on June 3rd, add that to the list and include those additional new policies that you've mentioned in this matrix that you will be able to then select from your short-term housing priorities. I just want to make sure that that's- And also in preparation for that potentially have a question from my colleagues that might be able to be researched. Yes. Just a focus discussion. But we will be with that discussion looking at the whole of the housing strategy of the mayor and council. A lot of the things that you listed there would be considered as a part of that protection of tenants. And so I'm hearing that that is certainly a big priority, but we'll also be talking about subsidy and supply in that discussion as well. Absolutely, absolutely. I'm here focusing specifically on the issues that were brought up here in this rent stabilization discussion as opposed to the mandatory hard caps on rental and over it. So are you saying that then rent stabilization would not be included as one of the options in that menu that is discussed at the housing strategy? That would be part of the proposal. Okay, did not include it. Correct. Well, do you mean rent stabilization or specific price case? Okay, sorry, no. Because the state has talked about rent stabilization is broader than hard caps. Correct. It actions to stabilize rent and keep rent at the proper rate, which is a major problem, yes. But I'm specifically talking about not having a discussion on mandatory hard caps on rental and newer rates. Which would encompass the three different categories that you were talking about in your presentation. Okay, thank you. So I think Council Michelle will go and then we'll call the question. So just so I'm clear so you're asking that we make a motion to now remove rent stabilization moving forward. When I say rent stabilization, I mean rent caps. Correct. I mean, and again, I'm not saying that it isn't something that we shouldn't consider in the future, but with regard to our next briefing, focusing on the other things. With the next briefing, it's not necessarily about what's the focus, but what are you going to be choosing as your priority? So it would not be that last. And it will be a long session. Thank you. Okay. So I think you clarified your motion in terms of trying to get some additional focus on other areas of housing Emotions been made all those in favor It's two second did it Yes, count on the shot and then we'll take this so this motion because I know this motion would add a number of things Right and some of those things I do like so This but would this motion also be removing rents of the rent cap? That is part of the purpose of the motion. Okay, because it's challenging for me to, okay. So this motion would be removing the rent cap as the issue to advance. Okay. All right. Is there any motion on the floor? All those in favor? Please raise your hand and say aye. Or raise your hand. Does anyone have questions? I'm seeing faces. Okay. That's just my, it's after midnight, it's the next day face. Otherwise I'm good. All right. The recall of the, yep. All those in favor? All those opposed? Thank you. Councilmember Valerary. On the heels of that. And following up on the idea of what we can do to help those in need of assistance, those experiencing any level of financial hardship that will impact their ability to remain in their home. I'd like to make a motion instructing staff to explore the possibility of a pilot program of rent subsidies for vulnerable renters, bringing back feasibility and options for mayor counsel to consider. Council Member Shaw. I'm not raising my hand to vote just questions. I think I would like to have more information first before I would. So to my understanding this is the request for direction this is this is this is to direct staff to come back with ideas on how to do this based on some of the models that's exactly what I meant thank you you. Councilman Van Grabe. I potentially have a second, but I have a question regarding the motions. I guess that's where we're at right now. So you're just asking staff for a pilot program with regard to potentially assisting renters in need but without clarification exactly what that means at this point. Exactly. I want to kind of see what the options are. Again, knowing that this is a very brand new initiative that the City of College Park is very specifically targeting for to combat the inability of many Maryland students to find affordable housing near campus. I want to see if there are, you know, things that we could borrow from their approach that would expand the subsidy, oops, sorry, expand the subsidies to maybe also fill in as one of the people to find mentioned, that kind of, that middle class gap of where you might not fit an income requirement, but you do experience a sudden hardship. I don't want to see what's out there and you know, and see if that's a maybe a better way that we can frame it. Thank you. Councilmember Jackson. Yeah, so could you clarify a little bit? I mean you say people in need, but so... Who I guess? Well that, and I think I want to, I'm sorry, Madam Mary, if I may. Sorry, yes, it's how it should be like that. Go ahead. I'm just gonna hop in. Um, I think that that is something that I would be open to. Of course, I'm always open to staff recommendations. Again, the College Part Program used the qualification for a federal Pell Grant as kind of an easy quick way to kind of delineate. They also used 60% or less of the area median income. I'm open to any sort of approach to it. I just think it's worth having the conversation. And I think it's a good time to be looking at it, given that some of our neighbors are looking at this issue as well. Does that answer your question? Basically, I don't want to be prescriptive in what I'm directing. I want to be more open and exploratory to what may be feasible real estate. Thank you. I see the city manager has a comment or question. Yes, just a comment. And I mean, before you vote, there's always an issue about staff capacity and just given the direction that we received, there's a lot of work that we have to do. So just like the caution mayor council, they had right now, that will take some time for us to complete the direction, get clarification, and then come back to you all, adding on to what we already have. It may be improbable for us to come back and turn around and have that conversation. Should you all decide to proceed with it, if that's the majority. I'm just saying we just don't have capacity and we need to focus on the direction that you've provided. It's going to take a lot of work for us to focus on the direction that you've provided. It's going to take a lot of work for us to go back, listen to tonight's meeting, and then prepare to come back to you all for a conversation that will then lead to more work from their follow-up conversation that we'll have. Thank you. There is a dedicated section on subsidy that we wanted to keep. So I just would leave that section open to innovative approaches that we wanna bring and discuss further. Yes, if I could make a recommendation would be to essentially add that to the list of things that could be a priority to look into more, but especially since the staff report if we're to have that conversation in early August, would be due next week. I don't think I would have the capacity to look into that before then, but I think that that's certainly a great addition to the list of ideas for subsidy options for the mayor and council to consider as a priority going forward. Thank you. There's been some discussion about early August. Are you going to take over the August 5th meeting and Replace it with this discussion because we don't have another August meeting and we will be on recess so You don't have to answer that now, but we will be in recess after August that correct Correct so we were thinking about having a special media maybe August 1st, second or that week of the 29th, but if you know your schedules don't allow, we can obviously push the that follow up to September after recess, but we're thinking about that week of the 29th August 1st. So sometime before the 5th and you're keeping the items on the fifth? Yes, that that was the plan and we wanted to just have the conversation separately and just have a housing in a walk session follow-up to just discuss what the next tips will be. Okay I'll just note that we'd have it's coming up very soon and we don't have any doodle pulls yet so if those are requests for that I would just because my colleagues may have plans, I want to make sure we get that by Wednesday, some options. It comes with my back. There need to be a second to that direction. Well, I guess the question is, it's going to be included as a subsidy item. So do you still need a motion for it? I would like it just to be affirmative that that will be part of the subsidy discussion. So yes. As needed I would take it. All right. So thank you sir. All those in favor please raise your hand and say aye. Sorry I just have a question. So it's a motion to include a discussion of subsidies in the subsidy conversation. I know. I know. That's what I say. Okay. Yes. I just want to be super clear. That is all. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Thank you all for this discussion. I appreciate. There's a lot to unpack and uncover. And there's a lot of regulations still being written for us to track and follow. If I may, if we are not going to be having a follow-up conversation about rent stabilization and including that in the list of policy options, I do want to note that I know you all have asked a lot of questions about rent stabilization. We said that we would get back to you on if we're able, if that is chosen as a mayor and council priority, but I do want to flag and make sure that it's clear that because that is not going to be on the list of priorities, we are not going to provide that additional research. So those questions will have to go on answered. Some of them we might be able to provide quicker answers on, but other of those big research questions, we won't necessarily provide answers to your questions. Yeah, for now. And you know, county is still making coming up with decisions. So there's things that may be answered through that process. So, okay. Thank you very much. All right, so we have a discussion that's supposed to happen on vaping. And I want to understand, I know this is a different department, Mr. Barker. We have a time limit of which that current moratorium existsist and will expire We also I think they were at least three of us Maybe more That had specific questions about the lack of a buffer For this the several schools that would be unprotected and what staff has proposed of late and that Some of us, you know, wanted to see an option that did have the buffer. But I don't think that was ready for tonight. No, no. We have, we have, we don't have a map that shows, we have a map that shows schools and parks. We also want to break that down if we just did schools and not parks. We also want to break that down if we just did schools and not parks. And we want to have a more robust discussion and have that into the advance. And so I think that if we need to extend the moratorium, we could do that at the same time. In August that we had this discussion as well. So I think it's really hard to have a good discussion about this right now. See, you know, very tired, but I think from the staff perspective, we'd rather go forward and do that rather than have to be on the end of a second meeting because we've already waited all this time. So I think we'd rather just probably get it done with, to be honest, I mean, Jim. I will say that I am interested in seeing an option that includes schools and active parks. We have that. So, but I will just maybe we can have a quick, let's get it done in 15 minutes. I want to be very respectful of that. And for the record, Mary and council knew this meeting was going to run long. quick let's get it done in 15 minutes. I want to be very respectful that and for the record mayor and council knew this meeting was going to run long. And here we are. We tried. We tried to make some adjustments on this agenda. So we look forward to working with the team to make sure that we can think out the 29th and the 5th. Please proceed a brief presentation that kind of shows additional options. And my understanding what you're looking for tonight is the general direction going in the right way so that you can bring something back. Yeah, we have the map ready for you that shows the additional buffer. Okay. And we also have a guest here that has waited on Valerie from College Gardens Association and is also here. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Are you going to proceed? Madam Mayor and members of the council, we did develop a map based on the briefings that we held with some of the members between the time that we issued the brief book and this evening. And that's the map that is showing on your screen. It's kind of a hybrid which reflects the approach which there were still be zones that the smoke shop use would not be permitted. The MXC, the MXNC and the MXT zone, which are interagent to residential neighborhoods. What this map also does is includes a buffer around elementary, middle, and high schools, as well as active public parks. As you can see by the large amount of grade also excludes large amounts of the city, but the key point is where it intersects with where retail uses are permitted. Can you make this a little bigger, which we're all trying to? Because we haven't seen it yet. I've got it a full screen on the laptop. Can you explain the color code? So all the yellows are permitted use. And what I'm reading from this is the reds are prohibited. That is correct. Yes. Thank you. Okay. So all schools are protect. All elementary, middle and high are protected, which was part of the intent of the original ask as well as active parts with playgrounds. Yes. So still would include exclude large parts of the city where retail uses are permitted. So there's a large section of like 355 that's covered. And then in terms of the buffer breaks. So if for example, 355 comes in play or major rail station comes in play that kind of helps that's the buffer in terms of the distance we don't have to You know, I think the planning commission had the idea of those kinds of major breaks are but are serious buffer enough They did major rights of way I 270 the rail rights of way Thank you a councils move, Larry. I appreciate it. I was one getting confused by the gray circles, so thank you for that. And I've been chugging lattes, so I don't know what my deal is. Can I just, I have one comment, one question. Comment, can we call this the VAPE shop ordinance and not the smoke shop there is something about the phrase smoke shop. I think it Can sometimes confuse people that we are talking about cannabis and not a vape shop um, and I think the more specifically we can be the better So that's my comment. And then my question is, if we overlapped this map, and I've been pondering this, and I would have sent it in advance, but I was like, maybe I'm off. If we overlapped the permitted use on this map with the permitted use for cannabis dispensaries. Would it be analogous? No, the distances for cannabis are much less by state law. Yeah. So it would be, it would look very different. We actually have done that map. I don't have it with me. Okay. Yeah. And that's what I thought. But again, it's late. And I don't have it with me. Okay, yeah, and that's what I thought, but again, it's late. And I don't know what my name is. And just one comment about smoke shop in the definition. The text amendment adds that definition, which includes tobacco and electronic smoking materials. So that's why we call it smoke shop, because the prior mayor and council gave us that direction that they wanted to include both of those rather than just vape shops. If you wanted on couple those and just can we say tobacco and vape shops? We can do a different terminology if that's also. But sorry, yeah, Councilman Valerian. Sorry, I keep forgetting that part. So then this would cover, because to my knowledge, we don't have a lot of tobacco exclusive retail in the city in comparison to vape shops. So what we're saying is that this would cover both. Okay, then I would be cool with like tobacco and vape shops. Thank you. I'm fine without change. Does anyone else okay with that change? I'm just looking around. Looks like yes. I appreciate the additional buffers. This does cover the concern that I had which is we lost with the essence of it was making sure that we were looking at what kids were facing immediately in terms of advertising and access. So I appreciate this revised option. Personally, I would love to hear my colleagues if they have a way in on this. Yes. Yes. I just want to let you know by doing these buffers, most of the city, you wouldn't be allowed to do a smoke or vape shop in the future. And also because of the regulations that we have, you can only do, it's up to 10% of an area and this could have implications on just convenient stores, gas stations. Just want to throw it out there that because of the extensiveness of this there might be an attendant consequences that we probably need to talk more about. Just to let you know that that might be something I wanted to make it clear transparent with you. Appreciate it. The map does have a lot of yellow, whereas some early versions did not. Yeah, the yellow is still overlap. Okay, I see permitted use. I know whatever that goal is. But Councilman Van Grack, I think Councilman Fulton. I want to go back to something that you were just talking about. With regard to the floor space and the commercial space used for it, are you saying that you've got a concern about that based on what the Prairie Mayor and Council was talking about? Do you think there should be adjusted? All I'm saying is that it's such a low bar. Like Montgomery County is 51% is dedicated for the use of vaping, whereas ours go all the way down to 10% for both smoking and vaping. And so are you saying that because of that and the potential unintended consequences of that towards other stores, it should be moved up closer to Montgomery County? That. Well, I'm honestly asking for your opinion. Because as I've already said, numerous times before, I'm worried about unintended consequences. So I'm truly wanting your opinion. I think that is a very low bar. But, you know, so we originally as staff had a higher bar originally, but I think the previous council directed us to go lower than that The clarification and I'm gonna go right Councilman Fulton after this, but just the clarification on that discussion is that what was viewed when you go into Particular vape shops is that they are not using a lot of floor areas that the setup is more like a Cell phone store where it is very little square footage space. It's kind of stacked up against the walls. So I think that was just to folks who were not part of that discussion. That was the essence of why it was lowered. Councilmember Fulton. I have one question on the map and then one clarification that gets to the what you were just talking about Mr. Brockert. Since it was the prior mayor and council that made this proposal, I think it's important for me to at least understand what it is we are trying to accomplish. And there's three things we could be trying to accomplish. One is to prevent or limit minors or anyone from vaping. This doesn't do that. We all know this doesn't do that. So there can't be the purpose. The other would be to limit or prevent minors or anyone from accessing these products. This doesn't do that either. So that can't be the purpose. So then the purpose has to be to Prevent the normalization or the advertising of these types of things so but I'm on board. I support that But to your point I'm unclear on so if we're looking at Richard Montgomery. So here's Richard Montgomery. I can't tell Richard Montgomery was without the buffer, there could be a smoke tobacco and vape shop within whatever the buffer radius is of Richard Montgomery on the old map. Oh, wait, you just moved my map. I was looking at that map. But in the new buffer, you couldn't. Right. But in order for me to be reading that right, can you go back to the other one that was all gray? Yeah, so this is the map same map with no buffer. Yeah, I got that one on my laptop. Sorry. Everything that's gray here is within a buffer. So you've covered Richard Montgomery, but then that also means that the things that are coated here as permitted use in yellow are not in fact, right? Access to me permissible. Says permitted. Right. Those are the retail zones where any retail is permitted. But it wouldn't be because it's within the buffer. Right. So I shouldn't look at that and say the yellow is where they can be because it's not. Yeah, the gray is actually on top of the yellow. Right. So where can they be? Almost no. But that's not a good map. It's not a good map. So the other thing I wanted to mention about Richard Montgomery, because I think about that, I mean, I've got two kids there next year. I don't want a tobacco or a babe shop there. But I'm also well aware that there's like a 7-11 there, which I tend to think that those kids are more likely to go to than a big sign. So I just wanted to be like real thoughtful about what it is we're actually accomplishing with this. Right. It's a 7.11. 7.11 can have less than 10% right? It's still selveic and smoky. And still have a big sign out front, which they do in the window. Yeah. So it's something I just I think it's important to point out what To calcium or Van Grax point about the unintended consequences. It's not just the unintended consequences It's like what are we actually accomplishing? But I'll support it and that's what I just think it's important That's why staff had recommended just taking it out of those zones because those zones are more adjacent to residential and it kind of said okay that makes sense to really not have them near residential and having any commercial areas that are near residential properties. I have a concern about that as the initial intent was the advertising and right in your face where kids are. That was part of the initial discussion. Back to like why were we even having this conversation? It's vaping is legal, adults can do it. We're trying to think about, just as we would other kinds of stories that, are the adults go ahead do what you need to do, but children, we want to be cautious about. When you went to the residential zoning, it did, you know, it removed all the buffers for what the original intent was. And so that was a serious area of concern for me. With just the residential zones, the other aspect is that you're making a value judgment on mostly single family and townhome residential zones. When the city will become more multi-family all across 355 and you know other major roadways near transit. And so it seems like you're just focused on preserving that safety and sometimes in homes and not others. So that was another area where I was not comfortable with that focused approach and going back to the original intent of buffers around schools and active play. Yes, you're progative for sure. I'm just stating what the staff is recommending. Councilman Vellieri, I'm just going to weave over here. So I appreciate that as somebody who lives very close to the red dot on on veer smell. And in a walkable community as well, where you do want people to be able to access, be able to walk to wherever they need, you know, a retail need, I think that should enter into the equation as well because we don't want people to have to hop in the car for climate action goals because, you know know our zoning has set it up in such a way that you know that where they can exist is that much farther away. Having said that I'm gonna shift tactics slightly because I think that a little bit to Councilmember Fulton's point is that and not surprising to Madam Mayor, I have been focused on enforcement on this particular issue overwhelmingly. And again, this is not going to do anything to stop, I'll say, the bad actors and the convenience store community that are not carting kids who go in there as somebody who started smoking because I was not carted and I've always been this short and I was 14 when I started smoking cigarettes because nobody carted me. And so I don't want that experience for anybody else, and in particular, just for anybody. So from an enforcement perspective, and then also getting to the idea of the advertising, I know that the vape shops who are good actors have created their own industry standard that's very similar to cannabis dispensaries where you have the smoked or ha-ha perlima pun, opaque glass that you can't see directly into it. And there is no, again, good actors. There's no, you know, neon lights, whatever. Is there something within our code that we could impose any sort of like restrictions on exterior or visible advertising from specifically tobacco and vape shops and I've totally put you on the spot and it's totally okay if you can't see anything right this second, but I'm trying to think through Why they light up their windows and all that or you can see directly into the store to see all the product like most Aspensaries and actors, you cannot see all the product from the outside. So I'm almost trying to think there's a couple shops who you would not know they were a vape or tobacco shop from the outside. And so. I think it'd be challenging to regulate the display of goods. You could with the lotting of other jurisdictions I think it would be challenging to regulate the display of goods. You could with the lotting of other jurisdictions where they've used as a attracting device, which classifiers are signed and would make that illegal. And so that's something we can explore. That way it wouldn't look as out of the control. But this is a real tough topic because, again, we're not going to be able to completely eliminate people selling vape in commercial businesses. We would just limit the size to no more than 10%. I would just add, I'm interested when this comes back to us to see a map with where it actually can be that's more clear, because this one is tricky. Yeah, exactly. It's like permitted but not. Yeah, so like I'd like to see the real permitted be, like, this is where it actually can be. And, you know, if that means that we're looking at really focusing on the buffers around places where active parks and schools, and, you know, giving that as a pure option, I'm open to seeing that. Colleagues, where do you stand? I'm seeing Shropho. Yes, I've seen majority. Councilman Van Grack has a question. I mean, I see where it's permitted and not permitted. My issue is it seems like there's a confusion as to where that what the initial goals were versus what is being implemented here. That's what I think the difference is because I understand what's trying to be done here and it's said you're saying what the mayor and council put forward with regard to their buffers is an impossibility to have any vape shop or tobacco shop anywhere in Rockville. That's really good. That said, I think this mayor counsel and that mayor counsel really are concerned about having these focused shops anywhere near the schools and playgrounds. So while there's a commercial aspect here, we still want to make sure even if those buffers were too big or they were expanded, some degree of buffers around these schools and playgrounds. And so I see what's permitted here. My thing is, it seems like it's what's been done here is just said, well, since we can't really have a buffer, we're just gonna take the commercial districts and allow it there. But I think what I hear is, and what Councilmember Fulton was saying, what was the initial goal? And I think the initial goal is from the Mayor Council, which I think still exists here, we don't want these vape shops around these playgrounds, around these schools. So even if we have to focus on those areas and even make the buffers slightly smaller, we wanna make sure the buffers are implemented so that the Richard Montgomery students who might be strolling aren't just going to come up to a vape shop right near the school because it just happens to be a commercial district and I think that's the issue. Well yeah just to add to that I think it will be helpful to see the map in two ways one that's the purity of schools and active playgrounds right and another one that clarifies what you've done here. Because this also includes what you're calling residential zones and so does it? So when I say playgrounds, I mean, active, but playgrounds and active parks. Okay. Yes. Just a clavit. Thank you for that clarification. But if we, if we could see those two very clear maps, I think that would be very helpful. to very clear maps. I think that would be very helpful. So if a park has some active areas in it and has some passive areas, I mean, do we just draw it from where the passive areas are? Because some areas, you know, I mean, park land is all throughout the city and some parts are active, some part are passive and so it might be just hard to draw that but we can try and come up with something that would identify the portions of the area that are active in that park. Councilor Falcic. I'm not saying anything new but I just to build on it. So, I'm not saying anything new, but I just to build on it. There's something really appealing to me of focusing on schools and active parks as what we're trying to and the buffer around that being in your judgment, whatever it is that still addresses the concern we're trying to get to, but still is easier to administer to the extent it is. Well, those don't move very much. And allows the permitted use still in the city. Which I think is different than the original direction from the original mayor. So that might simplify. I will just say the original mayor council didn't fully see the maps in the way. Exactly. It was more on the fly. It was done fly and we didn't have the maps in the way. Exactly. It was more on the fly. It was done fly and we didn't have the maps. So yeah. Just to clarify on the on the map that you see these are the active parks. The text amendment has a very specific definition and we took that based on the parks classifications that the city uses in its strategic plan. So like stream valley parks and all that not shown on here. So this is all of the active parks and all the school sites. And what is intended to show is that pretty much the entire city is a buffer if you use the half mile buffer from all of those sites. You know we might want to reduce the buffer. So but wasn't there a discussion initially about a thousand Yeah, I agree with the original mayor and council Well, let us let's really provide some The original comment what you're saying is that you want the buffers around those But you also want them to be allowed in certain strategic areas long 355 Yeah, I don't know where half mile came from Yeah, I think that half mile was in the original amendment for middle and high schools because that's what the county has. And so that's what we had. There were some other uses that were a thousand. The past mayor and council moved all the a thousand ones up to half mile. Okay, so we'll back it down. And that will be fun. That's good clarification. I appreciate it. I think the issue on the map is that what I heard earlier is that even though it's yellow, it doesn't mean it's eight-year able to. That's initial, initially thought yellow means good. Like, you can do it. But then there was some clarification that no, that yellow was not really quite clear. And what I'm asking for is extreme clarity and whatever maps you bring to the next meeting. So just so that we can like see this is where it is and this is where it is. Yeah, but I think this was a good exercise. I appreciate it because it it really helped us on a more focused map in the future. I am pleased to recognize this is not an easy task for you. So I thank you. And I appreciate you allowing me to bring that up. All right, thanks. Like we've got a deadline. So they have this on, they actually have this on the future of Dendos. I don't have the date on me because it's late. I'm usually having a photographic memory. But this is coming back. Is it the fifth or the July 29th? On July 29th. No, I 29th. Okay. All right. Perfect. So it was coming as an adoption right. So was the direct. So is it a thousand feet just to? Yes. Okay. the direct so is it a thousand feet just to yes okay if for some reason we don't get to conclusion and the moratorium lifts I personally would be willing to extend it by no more than three months so that we can have time to fix this. So I just, maybe there's a backup plan that we have in place prepared. We perhaps could put that if you don't get to a dot from the 29th. You put that on August 5th. Yeah, I'm seeing thumbs up. I just wouldn't want to go more than three. I agree. I agree. Okay, we are closed on this item. I agree. I agree. Okay. We are closed on this item. Kind of for today, for Tuesday. Thank you very much. The next item is a future agenda. I'm trying to pull out my paper here. I will just note that I send some commentary with my questions to staff about July 29th. That meeting is currently planned to end at 11.30. I ask the question I haven't gotten a response yet. I know that when they respond they normally include the full mayor and council but for the purposes of they need more time I'm just saying what that comment is. Planning for 1130 is going to put us around where we are now and so I just and we don't have the option to start earlier because that will be a welcome reception for our new city City Manager, Jeff Mahalek. My question to you all is given where we are on, you know, items is there was two items that I asked Mr. Matete about. I think it was procurement and there was another one conservation districts. Are those still time sensitive that we can't move those to another date. The conservation district is a really simple amendment and it could come off the 29th and as long as we put it on the keep it on the on the I think it's going to set timber and have it DNI impossible approval because ultimately all we're doing is allowing the opportunity to amend the conservation district. So it's not like it's a note, it's kind of a no-brainer in order to well for me it is. It could be a more of a discussion, but just allow the process to move forward. So we could take it off the 29th and just leave it on the September meeting. I appreciate that. I'm fine with that. I think my colleagues seem to be okay. I wouldn't underestimate the questions because there's mention of design guidelines and there that might activate some discussions. But I know it's not, but I think there's some background information on the intent and what this will do in the future that could generate conversation among my colleagues. Sure, that's fine. I just want to be mindful that it probably won't be a 15 minute discussion. I understand. Councilmember Fulton. Just to complicate the conversation, because we weren't clear earlier, when we removed the conversation of excessively dwelling units from today, I wanted it to come back personally next week. So I think we need to make additional room on the agenda from what's already even here. Next meeting. And I had signaled that to Mr. Matutee to come back to it, you know, figure out how things are shifting and things might have to have a domino effect. Yeah. Figure that's what we're doing now. So I wanted to, like, as we play Tetris, we got to add another piece. But there were two items I figured that's what we're doing now. So I wanted to, like, as we play Tetris, we got to add another piece. But there were two items I saw that at least so that we're not going to 1130 that we could potentially move. Yeah, we'll move some items. Council Member Valerary. On that note, in order to be effective here, I would say can we move the discussion, the DNI on branding? And is there a time sensitivity to the introduction and discussion of amending the procurement chapter of the city code. Yeah, that's one of the ones I asked. Okay, cool. Because that's, I was thinking the same thing in regards to if we're moving 80 years and was the other one that we moved. Conservation district. Conservation district. Thank you. There's also the discussion instruction on the champion bill. Which I also don't want to push off. No, we have to get that. I think that is also what we originally was on August 5th. I don't know what happened. So fuss in the comment about branding. We do have consultants lined up. So we really would like to keep branding. On the 29th, yes, on Chapter 17, the Apple Q&A code we can be able to move that. Just Liz, want to make this. Can this be juggled and anything this meeting by 1030 You know later than 11 at least from a planned perspective. Yeah, can you look at that with your team tomorrow? Okay, yeah, can can is it possible to send us a Mak agenda revise Mak agenda Once you guys have that discussion. Oh, I could DC a dissent a more agenda to me and council. And I would also just request that we look at getting the August 5th market agenda as well this week. This was not sure. Okay. Is that fair? I'm seeing some faces. Councilman Vangrath, do you have a comment? Just, there's two things that we're talking about time here. Are they looking to get on the next meeting? Oh, okay, then I'm fine. Do you have a question, Mr. Matete? I just have a question. And I haven't checked the staff. I haven't checked with anybody. The mayor and council, because we have two items that you've pushed back. Those items are pretty much ready to go. If we found a date that worked for you all before the 29th, is that an option? It's an option for me. I know it's something that our community does not love. So we shouldn't do it all the time, but I do think that we have to make sure we get, you know, take care of city business. So let's make sure that's an option. Okay, thank you. And I know we have concerns, council member, I know we have consultants waiting on the branding, but frankly, this has been a long time in coming. If we could see if they can reschedule it for another date, I think that would be helpful, because I don't think tonight the timing of it was good or healthy for all the staff that had to hang around really late. And honestly, again, now it's old new business. It's almost one o'clock in the morning and something on old new business is really important. And as the liaison to the Youth Commission, I would like to have that conversation, but it's almost one o'clock in the morning. So I think if we can just spread things out a little bit more, I think that would be great. And I just would like to say, you know, it's tied to also some of the things that we're working on as well. It's not just the consultancies, you know, the website and some of the other projects we mentioned. I do think that there is some dependencies for branding and town center for working with to be modder on getting the bridge labeling. I do see that. I have a question regarding the future agenda, as I mentioned before, generally speaking, we don't put public hearing and DNI on the same night. Is there a reason that this is happening? Again, on July 29th. Returning out. So there's the help I rode, yeah. Why are they both, I mean, we have to have this discussion strategically. Like, yes, we want to streamline some things and if it's been really discussed with Mayor and Council, then we can move forward. Yes, but it's not a practice that we have traditionally. It signals to the public that we're already making decisions. It was just more of trying to consider if there were any issues, you could take it up to help reduce the number of meetings. But if that's an issue, then you know, we must definitely can adjust that. I would just say generally speaking, it's not something that we do unless there's a topic that is clean and clear. So just as a general comment. Okay. So this some work to be done on reconfiguring the agenda and we look forward to seeing what you all come up with. But we did make some suggestions on things to potentially move. So I think we have some good guidance there. All right, anything else on this topic? All right, old new business. All right, old new business. Councilman Valeria. Yeah, as I noted, the Youth Commission had some recommendations to changing, updating the resolution. I just wanted to flag it. They're very excited to like hit the ground running. They're also very excited to work within to maybe get use positions on the Community Police and Advisory Board that they'll be able to do some cross recruitment there. So just wondering for reporting back purposes, just generally, and you can email me tomorrow, because slate, beyond slate. Knowing like a general timeframe on that would be great. And I know that I have to follow up with the state clerk's office anyways on something else about the Youth Commission, so I can do that. Let's say Wednesday, not tomorrow, it's good today. And yeah, I just wanted to flag that. So do you have that agenda item on a consent for the 29th resolution? Yeah. I apologize. Thank you. I did have one question about future meetings report. I sent an email before the 28th about getting the update of future meetings report. The last time it was updated was June 1st. So I'm just requesting that we get that. I was told we'd have it before this meeting. Should be able to get it this week. Yes. OK. Thank you so much. In the spirit of time, I'm going to end my comments on old new business, anything else. OK? I'll end the motion to adjourn. Council of Valerii. I move that we are joined. Council Member Bouchard, seconds, all those in favor, please say aye and raise your hand. Thank you.