Good evening Rockville today is Wednesday July 10th and this is meeting number 11-24 of your city's planning commission. My name is Eric Fulton. I am filling in as Chair today as a Commissioner and Chair Shion Saluhudin is unable to be with us. I am joined in Chambers today by Commissioner Susan Pitman and Jamie Espinoza, and we are joined online by Commissioner Mang Sun. This is a hybrid meeting. So if you wish to participate, you can certainly join us here in Chambers at City Hall. You are also welcome to Tune in via WebX. We have one important topic on our agenda today, and that is a public hearing on the Draft Town Center Master Plan, and that will be followed by our usual slate of commission business. We do have some folks here in the chamber. We have some folks presumably online. If you are watching and interested in participating, we will talk slowly and give you a chance to get here to City Hall to have your testimony or your voice heard on this important matter. So with that preamble, I will turn it on over to Mr. Wasillac to introduce the agenda item. Thank you Mr. Chair and members of the Commission. I'm pleased to have this important milestone in front of the town center master plan and without further ado I'm going to turn it over to Katie Germis our comprehensive Comprehensive Planning Manager. Good evening commissioners. It is nice to be back. We're going to be seeing a lot of each other of the upcoming weeks and months. As Mr. Ross-Selec mentioned, my name is Katie Gervis. I'm the Comprehensive Planning Manager and I have just a very brief slide deck to orient the folks who may be here in person or watching from home to this project before we open into the public hearing. As a reminder, and I've said this before, I will always show this slide anytime we talk about Rockville Town Center. This is the geography of the planning area. It's known as planning area one in our Rockville 24-year comprehensive plan. So this is the geographic boundaries that this master plan is going to be looking to make recommendations for. So we're bounded to the north just shy of Manakishri among Montgomery College. So the geographic boundary is that this master plan is going to be looking to make recommendations for. So we're bounded to the north, just shy of Manakish Street and Montgomery College. Our eastern boundary is the Rockville Metro Station and the train tracks to the South by Richard Montgomery High School. And then we have a bit of a jagged western boundary largely following north and south Washington streets. Here is where we are at in our project timeline. We are officially in the Planning Commission review stage. We came before you all two weeks ago on June the 26th. I think it was to introduce this plan and we're here today for our public hearing. A quick reminder and some of the process and procedural requirements, we are proposing this to be an amendment to the comprehensive plan. And the state land use article has requirements that jurisdictions must follow when it comes to adopting a comprehensive plan or making amendments to the comprehensive plan. One of those is what we're here for tonight, which we are required to have a public hearing before the planning commission. And then ultimately the planning commission is required to make a recommendation before the Mayor and Council hear the plan and decide to take some action on it. How has the community been involved? We've had a pretty extensive outreach and engagement process. It started in earnest in April of 2023. We had several meetings, lots of tabling pop-up events. We believe we spoke to about 1,000 individuals to get their thoughts and feelings on town center. In October, we released a community engagement report that summarizes the findings. So it says how we heard from people, and it says what did we hear from people. And you can see some of those major takeaways on this slide. People wanted to see more densities, specifically housing and affordable housing. More diverse retail. There's a lot of concern about the vacancy rate within retail businesses, improved by competitive infrastructure, increased wayfinding, improved accessibility and signage for parking. Notably most folks didn't seem to think there was a lack of parking. It was just it's hard to get to. It's hard to find green spaces and additional events. We're also items of concern. Specifically on this draft plan, we posted this online at the end of April of this year. We've been sending out some newsletter updates to our subscribers from the Engage Rackville page, which continues to be our primary repository of information related to this plan and project. One of the things on that page is a feedback survey. Last time we spoke, we had 19 responses. We're up to 23 responses as a couple of minutes ago. So more folks are continuing to take that survey. We get notified of staff every time somebody completes that. We will be providing to you when we go into our discussion and instructions session. A list of all of that feedback will kind of separate it by each of the questions and when everyone's responses are so you'll be able to access that information to inform your decision making. We held two public meetings in June. I see some attendees in this room who came to one of our public meetings. So we're glad folks are continuing to come out and support. And then like all of our other planning efforts for utilizing city media channels in order to get the word out Rockville report, social media, airing on Rockville 11, all of those kind of typical things that we do. Our vision as established in the draft plan for town center is for town center to grow as a vibrant multicultural and diverse inclusive community. We want to have a high vibrant, multicultural, and diverse, and inclusive community. We want to have a high quality of life, a high sense of place. We also want to create a flexible regulatory environment, encourage the development of additional housing units, and overall strengthen the local economy and really create a sense of place in town center for sustainable, walkable, transit-oriented living. There are 12 goals stated within the master plan. sustainable, walkable, transit-oriented living. There are 12 goals stated within the master plan. Each goal is broken down into a number of policies and then recommended actions from there. You all have seen these goals before. For friends who might be watching at home are participating in the room. The executive summary of the document lists all of those goals. But in total, we have 12 different goals, 20 policies, and 59 recommended actions in the current draft. So with that our next steps we already introduced this to you all last month. Staff recommend that you hold a public hearing here tonight so we can hear from more members of the community what they have to say. And then the tentative schedule that we have looking ahead is a work session with you all later in the month and then approval and transmission to the mayor and council in September if that's the will of this body. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Ms. Gertz. Welcome back. And we appreciate everything that's gone into getting to this point. I have two quick questions before we open things up. How long will that survey be open? And how long is the comment period open before us the planning commission for the public? Your first question, I intend to keep that open through this going to Mayor and Council. So there is no plans to close that anytime soon. I would say probably at least October, November at the earliest is one that would close. As far as the public comment for this period Mr. Wasillick do we have an established timeframe for that? We really don't so I would say it would be up to the commission if you would like to keep it open or have a closing day it's certainly fine either way. All right we can discuss that we have some issues on this topic to discuss later on so we can bring that up. Commissioners, any questions for staff before we begin the public hearing? No, I do not. Go ahead and further. All right. Concert, son, anything? Okay. Well, we will begin the public hearing just as a reminder. Any member of the public who wishes to speak, if you've signed up in advance, we have your name. If not, we'll get to you toward the end of the signed up speakers. I have about three minutes to state your comments. And at this point, you're certainly welcome to also supplement any comments you make verbally with written email to to the planning commission and to city staff and I believe Mr. Waslik or someone over in staff has the List of folks and you want to start calling out names Thank you mr. Chair the first speaker is bejelle Patel to be followed by John Becker Welcome I'm Michelle Patel to be followed by John Becker. Welcome. Hello. So good evening. My name is Beechel Patel. I'm a resident of Rockville Town Center. My wife and I have lived in town center for the past year. And we've really enjoyed being active in this community. And particularly through volunteering with these local community hubs, like the Farmers Market and the Science Center, we care deeply about the success of this neighborhood, and its continued development as a dynamic pedestrian friendly and sustainable place to live. And so I'm here today to express my strong support for the Town Center Master Plan as proposed. In particular, I wanted to urge the commission to preserve three key goals of the plan. So the first is reducing or eliminating minimum parking requirements. The second is increasing density, particularly housing density in the town center area. And the third is enhancing zoning flexibility. So I believe these changes are vital for several reasons. So first, removing and reducing minimum parking requirements within half a mile of the metro station will encourage the development of more pedestrian friendly spaces. It'll attract increased developer interest. And also, it can reduce car dependency, which is negatively impacting our area through community health impacts, air quality, and public safety. So this not only makes towns that are more attractive and livable, but also helps to meet rockville's pedestrian safety and climate goals. So as public transportation options are going to continue to improve in town center over the next decade, now is the critical time to avoid locking in further cardipant infrastructure, which will then last for the next few decades or more. The second point is regarding increasing zoning density. This is really essential for addressing the housing crisis that we're facing right now. This is in unique to Rockville, but we need more housing available everywhere. So we all know that demand for housing continues to outpace supply. This year our family is facing a 7% rent increase, sorry rent rate increase, and without additional housing availability, this prohibitive cost of living is going to force many people who live in the area, including us to consider moving further away. And unfortunately already several of our close friends have had to do that, and at some point, we fear that it's going to be our reality too. And so the last point, which I'll be more brief on, is for increasing zoning flexibility. So really what that will do is allow more diverse range of housing and commercial options, which can help increase the dynamic and inclusive community that we see right now. And it can help adapt to evolving needs of residents and businesses. I'm sure a lot of people are concerned about vacancies and this will help to reduce that. So in conclusion, I urge you to approve the Town Center Master Plan as proposed. I think it's a crucial step forward towards ensuring that town center remains a thriving, affordable, and inclusive community for all. So thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Next speaker is John Becker to be followed by Rick Reinhardt. Mr. Becker, welcome. Thank you. I'm John Becker. I live at Americana Center, my resident homeowner, which Americana centers across the street from the Rockville Metro station. I have a couple of comments regarding the proposed town center plan, but I have some additional process and procedure questions or comments to make it afterwards. My basic concern from where I live is the safety of people walking on 355 from the Metro Station down to the intersection of Veris Mill and East Jefferson, and then walking east on East Jefferson. The issue here is, and it has been since the beginning of the town center or the previous urban renewal project, is that the sidewalk is basically a foot from traffic traveling anywhere from 30 to 40 miles an hour. And something has to be done to make it like you're not a thrill seeker walking down the sidewalks and either side of that street, those two streets. So when I'm going to urge in a follow up email with photos and diagrams and stuff like that so everybody understands what I'm talking about, there's got to be some way of implementing with the town center plan, safe sidewalks. Now only on town square center but at theies, especially us folks who live in the South, the Southeast portion of Town Center. What I would appreciate to know, and if not tonight, but in the future, that you folks have been out walking around. You've seen what Town Center is, you walk the streets, the sidewalks, different times of the day, different days of the week. And that's important to know that you guys are aware of the week. And that's important to know that you guys are aware of these things. Police enforcement, this is a little bit off topic. But again, we have a problem with speed limits and noisy traffic. That's something I'll be discussed. I'll bring up when it goes before Mayor and Council. And I think it's time for a Mayor and Council town hall for the residents and homeowners in town center. And this would involve Mayor and Council, the chief of police planning commission, maybe some department heads and our friends at Moorgar just to see what's going on and have make sure that the residents and the business owners of Towns Center are providing a voice directly to everybody. I have a question and not for tonight but I'm going to put it on record as far as recording the discussions that take place in a public setting like online or at the at the previous meeting I was held here on the 24th. I just want to make sure if something is being recorded, or if it's not, there should be a policy on that because if somebody's speaking, I got to remember who spoke what they said and what was said. And I'm kind of concerned about having that not recorded if it's going to be a public perform like that. So that's something I want to put in writing also. Next I want to make sure as far as a town center plan that the intersection and crossing Rockville Pike at Monroe Place will remain in place, will not be abandoned, and will be expanded to be two ways to cross Rockville Pike at Monroe Place. Eric, you and I, and you especially, did some work on that with our friends at the State Highway Administration or State Department DOT. Well, that's going to come up again because this is going to be part of the Rockville Town Center plan. And I guess the next thing is there was something I asked before back in March of 2020, there was a meeting here in this location with Womada and Reddy representatives and the mayor and council and some department heads. And at that time Womada had expressed some pedestrian volume information they have as far as where the major traffic places take place as far as crossing a street to get to the Rockville metro station. And number one is always down there in middle lane. The other thing, though, is that the bridge was up there also and crossing Monroe Place over Rockville pipe to get to the Metro station was a very close third. I've asked for that information before to find out what the data is and get a hold of it. And I'm going to make that, again, that same request verbally tonight. And again, I'll send something in an email with reference to the meeting I took place that day. As I understand it, the public comment from what Jim just said, I think that's a very good time frame for the Mayor and Council and you guys too. I mean, 30 to 60 days will be very, very appreciated. And with that, I close and thank you very much for your time. Thank you very much. Next speaker is Rick Reinhardt, who'll be followed by Stephen Van Gray. Welcome. Members of the commission, thanks for having me here today. I'm Rick Reinhardt. I am a property owner, voter resident at the Plytyan condos in Rockville Town Center. I wanted to thank Ms. Gerbys and Mr. Barker and the staff for their hard work on this plan. In general, I'm very supportive of it. I have some comments on three or four things I'd like to make. Number one, I think the goal of 2000 additional residential units by 2040 is low. I think it's way low. That would be the equivalent of adding one Boulevard Ansel project every four years. And although an additional 2000 unit seems a lot compared to what we've got right now. I think we need to add a project where a number of units like that every year or two downtown. The Womata Montgomery County City of Rockville plan for the station will be calling or does call for denser development over there. And what I would add is we have empty office buildings, literally adjacent to Metro right now, 51 Monroe, 255 Rockville Pike, 21 Church Street, the old choice hotels building. I think this city needs to work with Montgomery County and the state of Maryland and incentives to turn those from empty office buildings into full residential buildings with a component of affordable or workforce housing as being part of it. One city official told me that the prognosis for office is really good in Rockville. What I'll tell you with experience across America. It's not good anywhere. And having empty office buildings directly adjacent to Metro, that just needs to change. Second, I've run business improvement districts for 20 or 30 years. I do think we need to take a look at having a bid or something like a bid, an urban district together in downtown Rockville. I know that gets sort of washed away, but if it's good enough for a couple of dozen other commercial nodes throughout the DMV, I think it's something we really need to take a look at here. Or at the very least, the mayor, the new man, and the new manager need to get together with the top folks with the major property owners downtown and figure out how to work together. Third, I'd like to see a lot more data in this report. Both in terms of quality and in terms of quantity, it doesn't have the level of data that I'm used to. It has a lot of ideas, but I think we need numbers like what are retail sales in Rockville Town Center, Vizavi, Places like Rio and Piken-Rose. It has what the vacancy rates are, but that doesn't mean very much. Things like occupancy rates of parking, crime, pedestrian counts and those sorts of things. In my career that's what I've been used to putting into plans. I don't see them here. So thank you very much. I guess the only thing I'd like to add really quickly is that Rockville is just losing or has just lost two of its major employers. I don't hear much fuss about that. I hear a lot of fuss about other things, like walkability and which I'm all in favor of and public art and bicycles and all that. We've really got to take a look at our economic development, goals here and figure out what we need to do. Thank you very much. Thank you. The next speaker is Stephen Van Gray. You're even in Steve Van Gray and I've been in these chambers a lot of times. It's always a pleasure to be here. I wasn't going to speak tonight. I was actually came to the meeting to listen to learn more about the plan. It's a long plan and I haven't had time to go through it thoroughly enough, but I wish there was more time because the decision of the planning commission is so influential on what the mayor and council do. I wish there was more time. One thing. Secondly, I've always studied rock, I've testified before the planning commission and the mayor and council on the comprehensive plan. I've looked at it very carefully. I would like to consider including Montgomery College. Montgomery College has 15,000 students. There adjacent, we're stopping at the border of Montgomery College, Give that some consideration. Also would like you to think about numbers. The prior speaker was excellent. He hit the nail on the head. When you look at the Urban Land Institute report that talked about the need for density, they talked about 20,000 people, 25,000 people. They said the city had 5,000 people who live here and 25,000 who work here. What we need is 25,000 of each. So the numbers really need to be looked at in terms of 2,000 over, I forgot the number of years, it just was extremely low till 2040. And then also affordable housing if this plan goes forth. And we put a lot more high density residential units in the town center. There's much more affordable housing. You can create if you've got 10,000 units, 1,500 new affordable units in the town center. And 10,000, by the way, the numbers should be looked at more carefully. Finally, I have argued for a long time, I've been unsuccessful. There should be a task force from the city of Rockville, including the county government, the courthouses, a Rockville Chamber of Commerce, Montgomery College, Metro, a group that comes together and tries to decide what the county seat should really look like. Thank you for your time. I wasn't prepared, but I got sorted, couldn't stop. Thank you. I wasn't prepared but I got short. It couldn't stop. Thank you. Mr. Chair, there are no additional speakers signed up. And there is no one online waiting to speak. Okay. I think we covered everybody here unless anyone else wants to get up and add comments. Going once, going twice. Okay, well thank you to the speakers who came out today. Once again for those in the room and for the listening public, the survey will be up and open through the fall. The public comment period in front of the planning commission will be open for an amount of time. We will determine that today, but you certainly have time to get that in. And Ms. Gerbis puts you on the spot. Where is the best place for people to view the town center master plan draft? That would be EngageRockville.com slash town center. On the side of that page there is a link to the draft plan. So here's the website for folks that are watching at home. You can use that QR code and it will take you to the gay drug file site as well. All right. Fabulous. Thank you very much and thank you to all the folks who came out and brave the humidity to be with us in chambers tonight. We appreciate it. Mr. Wazelik, do we as a commission have additional input or discussion on this topic at this time? Mr. Chair, I think it would be helpful for yourselves and also Ms. Gervis' team to kind of tease out the topics that you'd like to discuss at your upcoming work session so that everyone can be prepared for that. That sounds good. So I will defer and look to my left and my right and online. Commissioners, do you have any comments that we want to start with? Commissioner Pittman. I'm happy to start. First of all, thank you for this plan. It's very exciting, and we've been waiting for this for a long time, and the public comments tonight were so helpful. I'm just glad everybody came out tonight. One thing I'd like to... I saw the bonus for height bonus for attainable and affordable housing. What about a height bonus for sustainability? So for instance, if you use wood frame construction, I think international building code is now up to 18 floors, I believe, with the tallest one being in Melwaki at 25 floors for Woodframe construction, which is environmentally superior to traditional concrete and steel construction. So somebody, for instance, came along and said, well, we'll do that. Could we give them a height bonus as well? There's an action item about educating developers and owners. I'd like to see us consider some carrots, some real carrots, not just education, to do the right thing and make downtown more sustainable. And it doesn't have to just be that. Maybe they put in an extra park or a rooftop, a green roof, vertical garden. There's all kinds of cool stuff that's being done now. I also want to bring out, can I just keep going? Sure. Okay, interrupt me if you need to. Okay. Can I just keep going? Sure. OK, interrupt me if you need to. OK. One of my concerns is that 1,000 square feet adjacent to the metro is 1,000 square feet adjacent to the metro. It's expensive, even with MPD use, that kind of thing in place. I would really like to see Mary and Council supported by staff consider some non-traditional approaches to housing policy that maybe come at it from a different way. I don't really know what that would be but if there is something we could do that's innovative and again provides a caret to developers to provide different rent structures and ownership structures for the buildings. I would love to have something from you guys to talk about. And then the data I was glad to hear that come on tonight. What is the current occupancy of Townsend or are we renting them out? And then I sent to Mr. Ross-elect today a question, you know, you hear, anecdotally, people are now working from home and remote work is here to stay and people are moving out of city centers. Is that really true? I don't know what those numbers are. So if you guys have data to help us with that, plus the current occupancy of Town Center. That would be super helpful. And my last thing for right now is it's very easy to get excited about Town Center because we all have going there. You know, it really is. I think you all captured quite well that it is the heart of our city. It is our downtown. It is where we gather. But it's not the only part of our city. We really have to look at town center holistically. And as part of the larger whole, the same way we have to look at our city as part of a county and a region and all that. So where does it fit in with everything else, right? How 2,000 units does seem a little low? But what else is being built and is it all the same? Are we building a nice variety city-wide? Not just in town center. How many units are coming online? That kind of thing. All over the city. And what are all the different varieties? So having a little more clarity on that would be fantastic. And again, the plan is lovely and exciting and it's a real chance for this city to innovate and to lead on some of these things. And I think that's captured while in this draft. So thanks for listening. Commissioner Sonesa? So when looking at the plan, I was excited to see the comparisons with the Piken-Ros and the Rio. That's something that everyone is always talking about. Obviously the plan mentions that. However, what I was confused about was the references to the catchment area versus the actual Piken-Rose and Rio area as compared to town center and town square because my understanding, at least my layman's understanding, is that the Piken-Rose development and the Rio, even though we look at them as competitors to town center. They're not. Town center was developed with a different model and idea and is more of a neighborhood and within Rockville where the Taikron Rose was created with more of an entertainment vision in place and the residents there feel more like an add-on where our development here in Town Center, it's the residents are the focus, right? The Piken-Rose North of Rio have a library, for example. And so when people are comparing them, I'm always confused with, how many residents are actually within the Pike and Rose era, not the surrounding homes that go into the Pike and Rose for the restaurants and shops, but literally there, literally in the real versus town center and town square. So kind of clarifying that and potentially having a discussion with the project vision for the Piken Rose and the Rio versus town center to see if they really are competitors because the plan refers to them as competitors and I'm skeptical that that's actually true. And in addition to that, the future vision for the pike and rows in the Rio, because I suspect not many people are talking about increasing residential capacity in the small area of the Rio and the pike and rows, we're in town center, everybody is, right? There's no metro that goes to the Rio, for example, but there is in town center everybody is, right? There's no metro that goes to the Rio, for example, but there is in town center. So just kind of clarifying and really getting down to, are they really competitors or not? Because I think that's going to drive the vision to town center, right? If they're not competitors, that takes us one way. If they are competitors, I think that clearly leads us down a different path. So that's my only comments on the plan. Thank you. Commissioner Sun, do you have any comments or areas of interest you want to share with staff? Sure. Yeah. So I'd like to share a couple comments and thoughts. So first, I think that I really agree with the plan to address the increase in the housing supply in the area in the town center. And I see we have enough language increasing the, like, high bonus and the increasing units. And but I think I want to see more language on maybe the diversify of the housing units. And I see on the goal one, there is a sentence saying we need to address the missing middle housing. So that is the language kind of targeting to the maybe the size and type of units. So maybe we can add some language on diversified unit types to meet the diverse needs that can, this elements can be understood a little bit. I think it's important if we only build one type of units that we can only add, maybe attract the similar type of demographic. And so we need to divert the housing units type to means the different needs and attract more diverse people living here. And the second point I want to make is I really agree with everyone that we need to eliminate the parking requirement, minimum, maximum requirement, and to reduce the parking in general. But my experience for the town center is we have a lot of parking lots in the town center, but it's kind of hard to find and hard to know where the vacant parking spots are. So if you're in any way that we can think and how to know where the vacant parking spots are. So if you're in any way that we can think about a smart parking system for the town center that the people can easily identify the parking spots of their abilities and sign their parking spot, and also thinking like for the new developments that are built in the town center. So some buildings will not have a parking, required parking. If there are no parking, and if the residents living there needs parking, where can they find the space, long term, short term? So I think such system may be established, may be helpful for people, both residents and visitors to find parking in the whole town center area. And so my third point is for this design. I'm sorry, Commissioner. Hello. I apologize for interrupting. I think we just had a power outage in City Hall, and it may have affected our Iraq Rockville 11 equipment. Oh my gosh. Is the meeting still out? So yeah we'll just wait for a second to see if we can bring the bring the meeting back on. We can continue to hold it if for whatever reason the equipment is unable to be brought back online under the Open Meetings Act. We're okay to continue. But I think we would obviously prefer to broadcast the whole meeting on Rackville 11. Okay, let me know. I'm going to go to the next slide. Did everyone bring an umbrella? Okay, Commissioner. We're back online. Okay, great. So I can continue. Yes, please continue. Great, great. Yeah. Thank you. So I think I mentioned the two points. My last point is related to the design standards. And I see that on the the goal three brought into more like also design standards for vibrant public space and to build a sense of place. So I think for that language, I want to see more, maybe integration of the public art and also a more upgrade or revised version of the way findings and signage for the town center. I think the whole town center needs maybe a new rebranding process. I really agree with that. And with that process, we need to emphasize on the public art elements and the way finding elements, signage, and also emphasize on the landscape to also reach the sustainability goal. Yeah, so that's the third point I have at this moment. Thank you. Great, thank you, Commissioner Sun. I have a couple of things as well. I'll just echo my fellow commissioners' praise for the draft plan overall and would draw everyone's eyes to the acknowledgments page where I think everybody city staff and residents who help drive this forward are listed so I want to make sure we give credit where credit is due. I will also echo what some other speakers have said regarding data specifically on parking. I don't know if the city does have this but if the city does have parking data for the garage that owns in Town Square, I'd love to know vacancy rates, things like that, just out of mostly out of curiosity, more than anything else, if the city does capture that. I'd like to have a conversation with the commission in two weeks about the proposed height limits and the proposed edge areas of planning area one. So things like comparable municipality jurisdiction, height limits might be helpful to guide our hand in that. I also like the concept of a bonus height program in different ways that we can achieve that. So good job on that. in different ways that we can achieve that. So good job on that. Also curious, I think Commissioner Spinoza asked a similar question to this. So I will give him credit if it's feasible. Are we able to gather student generation data projected versus real for buildings in town center? When plans come before us, say this is projected to eight elementary school, four middle school, and now these buildings are populated and students are there. Are we able to compare projected versus actual? We would need to get the actuals from MCPS, but I think we can do that. Okay. I'm curious just about the accuracy of projections versus actual in town center. One thing that might help me in terms of clarity, there's a lot of great stuff about different types of housing, affordable housing, attainable housing, but there's some, I don't know if it's misalignment or difference in verbiage. And I've been sitting up here for a couple of years and I still get tripped up on affordable housing about below market rate housing, MPD use. And so maybe just a quick overview of why some things are MPD use and why some things are below market, the bonus height program, for example, is specific to MPD use. The staff and by-right action item in, I think it's in goal eight somewhere is below market rate, I believe, is the furthest. So I just like some clarity and maybe there's a chance to align things there. And maybe that'll lead to some greater expediting of things. there and maybe that'll lead to some greater expediting of things. I guess two other things, I have a lot of other notes that we'll get into, but two other things that I'll bring up now. One statistic that jumped out to me is that 18% that's one in every five people who live in the town center planning area live with one or more disabilities. And while there's no policies or goals, I think that speaks specifically to this, I'd like to see some, just ways to make sure that we're baking in accessibility in all forms, whether it is in housing, whether it's in wayfinding pedestrian access, things like that. And the final note I'll bring up now is about there's a parcel of land. I know that we call out a couple of priority parcels of land and I agree with them. I have a priority parcel of land as well and it is the surface parking lot that is at the intersection of North Washington and Martins and I presume it's owned by the Postal Service. If there is a way and whether this goes in the plan or whether I tuck it away for the planning staff to consider for the future that we can incorporate that necessary parking into something that's not surface parking and turn that lot into something else that would be great. I would not like to see this plan move forward and just have a surface parking lot there for the next 25-ish years. Those are my primary things that I want to bring up now and I'm sure we'll have a robust conversation in a couple of weeks. Does anybody have any add-ons or additional information? I'd like to add something about the parking. We all know we need to reduce the parking requirement or eliminate it in town center. And I know that people in this surrounding neighborhoods are concerned that just because you don't provide parking doesn't mean people don't have cars and that those cars will end up in their neighborhoods. So what, as we move through this process, what can we do to reduce that issue? It's going to, I'm from Texas and it's very hard for me to talk about parking. Getting rid of parking, even though I know it's the right thing to do. But it's hard. It's a difficult subject and we are going from an urban center to a traditional neighborhood on both sides of the Metro station. So I think that's a conversation we need to have about mitigating the impact of removing parking requirements on surrounding neighborhoods. Commissioners, any additional questions, comments, walk-ons? All right. Well, thank you all very much. Thank you, staff. Do you have any questions or clarifications from us? Have we done enough to keep you busy? You've done plenty. I've been taking very good notes. So a staff prepares the staff report for your work session when it's coming up. We will divide that staff report into some of these sections that you all just talked about and provide additional information and references. A lot of the data that you've asked for we have behind the scenes. So that's a pretty easy lift just to jot that down and make sure everyone has that accessible. The one question that I have on my notes, we haven't yet addressed is the public comment period and how long you would like to keep that open. To keep it open as long as we can, realizing that staff will have to forward us some stuff after the packet comes out. So maybe not up to the time of our next meeting, but a couple days prior. The Monday prior maybe? I think the longer the better. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. So then, then I'm fine. I guess then keeping it open till our next meeting with the understanding that staff will probably do some forwarding of information if it comes in on the 25th or 6th to us. Yeah, from staff's perspective, the packet date is just the biggest hurdle there. So we can provide to you as of the date of the packet, everything that we have thus far additional things will come. So certainly if you want to keep it open till the next meeting, that's an option. If you wanted to keep it open even longer, I know you all as a body recess in August, but staff does not. So we will still be collecting information and we can provide an amended list of public comments ahead of the September meeting before you were to make any decision if that was the will of this body. That is a helpful clarification because I lost my head in August. So I would advocate that we keep it open during August then as well. I agree. So let's keep it open to the customer or next meeting or that September meeting, which I think is either the 10th of the 11th. Yep, September 11th. All right, great. All right. So we are going to keep the public record open on this until the 11th of September, but that doesn't mean you have to wait till the 10th of September to get us your comments. I'm sure staff and we would appreciate that. All right, well thank you very much, Ms. Gerber's thank you all who are still in chamber here with us. I don't think there's any more discussion or conversation on this topic, Mr. Wazelik. We can move on. Thank you, Mr. Wazelik we can move on. Thank you Mr. Chair. Just look ahead to the next meeting. As you know we have scheduled the work session on the Town Center Master Plan 4 July 24th. There's also a Level 2 site plan for the Tower Preserve project which you have seen the project plan for previously. That is also slated for that agenda as well as the your annual report. So it's fairly robust meeting agenda as it stands. And then looking ahead to September 11th, we've got the conservation district plan and another zoning text amendment for the Lincoln Park Design Guidelines coming forward, provided that that is authorized by Mayor and Council at one of their upcoming meetings and then of course we're related to transmit the town center master plan to the Mayor and Council at that meeting as well. And one other note, you were all signed up for the plan and as in training, you were still signed up, We renewed all of those. So if you want to continue on with whatever topic you would like, you're free to do so. Thank you. That's a good reminder of that because I have been taking webinars here and there. And I hope the fellow commissioners have as well when they can. And I'll redouble my efforts to do that. There's some really good information there. Questions or comments on upcoming meetings for? I do. Yeah, I'm going to be out of town on the 24th. And that's a pretty full agenda to also have a robust work session on this. Is there any way we could move the work session to a different to later? Different time. I realized that we usually take August off. I understand from Mr. West select that Mary Council Chambers is not available in August. I don't want to put this project back too far, but it would be nice if we had a whole meeting just to talk. I mean, it's a pretty important topic. It'd be nice if we had a dedicated meeting just for this. And I will call in for the next, for the meeting. I realize we have other things we have to do too. But, no, it's a fair point. I assumed, maybe unreasonably, that it would be just the one topic that we would have. And I know he's not here, but at our last meeting, I think Shion indicated that he would be back from international travel, but barely back from international travel. And so, you know, if there's a delay or something on his end, that could, that could put a wrench in into our plans as well. I personally don't have an issue from a logistical perspective, meaning in early August, but I would ask my fellow commissioners, if they are around and available, and certainly staff could accommodate that from a workload and from a capacity standpoint. Just one of the issues is that the chamber is not available and there's no really alternative to it to provide the support that you have when you're here for the live broadcast and the web broadcast. So there's not a lot of good options in August if you want to, you know, broadcast your meeting online as you normally do. I say it's it's it's unideal for a work session but the the chambers unavailable but could we do a virtual web acts from anywhere or a different location. You could do it entirely virtually and certainly that's an option. I don't know if that. So a question I have is from a public participation standpoint, work sessions tend to not include public comments. And so as long as we notice the meeting and have capacity for people to watch it, we could just have it in a conference room here, right, without televising it since it's not available via television or via web X. I'm not sure that that's a deal-bake breaker when it comes to the public meeting aspect of it. I don't know if Council can weigh in on that. I mean I think that the requirements of the Open Meeting Act are pretty, they're not difficult to meet. So I think really the question should be more that the degree of visibility and public availability that the commission actually wants to have for its meetings. In other words, we can accommodate your meetings with the Open Meeting Act with some pretty, it doesn't need to be live recorded, it doesn't need to be broadcast, I mean none of those are actual requirements of the law, they're just sort of essentially extra services that we provide the residents of the city. So again, I think it's kind of a commission call and we can work to accommodate you. I view a work session very differently than open testimony or public comment, right? So I personally would be comfortable if we have enough commissioners for a quorum to just schedule time in a conference room to work through the plan and provide comments to staff if they're available. I'm not and as long as we notice the meeting having on the website and have seating capacity for anybody who wants to watch. That's my view of it. I agree. I wouldn't want to hold a public hearing without television capability, but I agree that it works sessions a little bit different. And could we, I mean, would this be an appropriate use of the library? I think they could hold more people could join us if we were at one of the meeting rooms of the library. I think staff would just have to look into the logistics of it. Again, from an open meeting's act perspective, the location just needs to be accessible. And then Commissioner Espinoes will really hit on some of the major points as if we're expecting a large number of people we need to be able to accommodate them in some way. We could use overflow rooms and things like that. But in fairness, virtual meetings are also lawful. So, you know, there are a lot, again, there are lots of ways that we can accommodate you. The only thing is, I just want to make sure we're respectful of our technical staff because, you know, transitioning to different meeting locations can sometimes be difficult. And I will note, I mean, this may be obvious, but we were taking public testimony today and we had four speakers and five attendees. So for a work session where we're not taking comment, in order not to burden the technical staff, I would be comfortable just reserving the blue crab conference room or one of those and just sit around a conference table right with whoever staff. And don't we're in council to an annual work session where it's not televised. A lot of times throughout the pump house. I know they have some meetings that are certainly public meetings, but they're not necessarily broadcast live. Right. Yeah, I mean, that's correct. And including they do walking meetings occasionally as well, things like that. Yeah, to me, I mean, maybe I'm kind of old fashioned. I realize I am the like elder on commission now that Commissioner Tierskahn, but I, for this kind of work, I would really like us to all be together if we can. I'd prefer it was not virtual. No, I agree with you as someone who is approaching elder status. You're close. I know. But no, I agree. My question about a virtual meeting was for logistics, but if we were able to do it in a conference room, I'm OK with that. I think the critical question for everyone, including Commissioner Sun, is we would then be looking at August 14th, if we were to keep our usual second Wednesday of the month meeting date. I am available and wondering if others are as well, or if we need to have some flexibility with that date. any others are as well or if we need to have some flexibility with that date. Yeah, for me, I can still only attend a webinar at that date, but I should be available, but only virtually. Okay. Unfortunately, yeah. But, well, first, I want to point out that I don't include myself in the approaching elder category. I just want to put that out there. Second, we could just have Commissioner Song WebEx in herself and just support a WebEx just for her and not have it open to the public to minimize the technical staff's support. Because I imagine one of us knows how to run a web ex right we're one person calling it so I just put that out there yeah yeah I imagine she'd be able to web ex in pretty easily yeah so the 14th doesn't present an issue for you it doesn't but would I mean I know the 21st is not our normal meeting date but if that would be make it Commissioner Sun able to join us and if that is what you would prefer would we be able to do that? I would be able to do that as over and I'm including staff in the question as well. OK. Oh, you mean August 21st? Yes. Would you be, would that be preferable for you? Would you be able to, or will you be back by then? I think that's my travel day. So you can have the next. Yeah. OK. Right. I think I, for this, I probably can only doing virtually, but I can yeah, okay. I just thought I'd ask Sorry, no, that's okay So for clarification for staff or we talk about August 14th only then is that What it sounds like we're landing on for the work session yes yes and then the other commission items that we're just talked about we would continue as planned on the 24th July 24th though is that workable staff yes well thank you very much for being flexible on that. We appreciate that. We'll hope that Chair Saludin checks his email while he's away. All right. So then we will have our meeting as usual on the 24th here in chamber. And then we will have a more personal in-person meeting in a conference room with WebEx capability for Commissioner Sun on August 14. And that will be our work session. Maybe we can proceed that with a walk around planning area one. That brings us then to Old Business. Any Old Business? than to old business, any old business? I have one little piece of old business. Mr. Russell, I provided us with the units to date that we've built out citywide or in the our schedule to be built out. That's like one thing. Yeah. And thank you so much for that. And before the last meeting, Chair Sala Hadin and I were the only ones in Chambers. And if we did the math correctly, we're actually a little bit ahead of our goal, city wide, on not that we should slow down or stop or anything like that. But I thought I found those numbers that we are ahead of our goal, our current goal for the Comprehensive Master Plan to be very inspirational. Like we can really do this. Now, it's not this bleak dark hole that we're in that it's actually very hopeful as far as housing goes and that we have worked very hard to, in our staff, especially worked very hard to get us to this place. And so I thought that, you know, there's a lot of fear-based conversation happening about the lack of housing. We should all be very concerned about the lack of housing, but we should also be very proud of the work that's been done so far and build on that. And so, you know, I, to me, Jim, those numbers were, was very happy to see those numbers and it made me feel a lot better and a lot more hopeful about where we're headed. So I'm wondering if there's some way to share that more widely. Because at the same time, I don't want people to get too comfortable. I want us to keep making progress. But it's great. It made me feel really good about this whole process and about the work that it's great. It may be really good about this whole process and about the work that everyone's done. So I wanted to share that. And I will add that we provide those numbers to MCPS for their school forecasting on an annual basis, and we are due to do that here in the next couple of weeks. So we have an even more updated list. That's great. That's great. That's a good solid. No, it's a good place to start. Great. Yeah, this commission for sure seems to love statistics and data. This is what I'm gathering from everybody up here. Any new business commissioners? Okay. gathering from everybody up here. Any new business commissioners? OK. We have a backlog of minutes, but I don't believe we have any minutes to approve tonight, correct? You do not. OK. We will put that to a future agenda. Any FYI correspondence we need to be aware of? Mr. Robillock? Nothing not related to the town center. OK. Well, that brings us to our final agenda item of the night. Nothing not related to the town center. Okay. Well, that brings us to our final agenda item of the night and that is adjournment. Do I hear a motion to adjourn? Motion to adjourn. Second. All right. All in favor raise your hands. Aye. Aye. It is unanimous. Thank you for joining us here tonight. Everyone get home safely. Commissioner Sen. Great to see you. Thank you all. Thank you for joining us here tonight. Everyone get home safely. Commissioner Sen, great to see you. Thank you all. Thank you, staff. Thank you. you