Music Good evening. Welcome to the City of Fairfax Planning Commission regular meeting of Monday, December 8, 2008. Please rise and join us in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the people of Iraq, out of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, my nation, under God, in the visible with liberty and justice for all. And we'll begin with item number two, a discussion of this evening's agenda. Mr. Chairman. We take item five, item two. Right after number three, it'll be a new number four. And then number four becomes number five. Just switch number four and five. Okay, motion by Mr. Foster. Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Cunningham. Any discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Okay, passes unanimously. Are there any presentations by the public not related to an item already on the agenda this evening? If so, please come up to the microphone, introduce yourself. Good evening. I'm Gordon Riggle, landscape architect. I live in four cottage, one oh three. One oh six oh three oak place. That's in the Cobdale area, which we pass every day this site at the intersection of Edenplace and Chain Bridge. This proposed a Marriott extended stay facility on an existing lot at that corner. The existing lot does not conform to any projection of the master plan that's been exhibited so far. I have three reasons for critiquing this project. I live nearby. The master plan has not been accepted and a building is being designed into a master plan that hasn't been accepted and it's an ugly building. The design standards for this master plan should be derived from successful features of development along Old Georgetown Road in Bethesda and National Harbor, which was recently opened over in Prince George's County. Those two spaces will probably define development styles of that scale, and I'm thinking that this project should be of that scale. We'll define the design for the next, maybe 20, 25 years in this area. Resentown Center is a much larger scale, and it's similar at street level, but in height, it doesn't apply. We had some good examples of city planning or early planning in Restent and Columbia and Tyson's corner. Columbia and Restent corner, Columbia and Reston Prowley being the better of the three, but they've been surpassed because they're outdated, the scale is all mixed up, and it's not a design project. It's a build on, build on, build on project. We have a chance to do something closer to National Harbor, which is design and project. Fairfax wants the equal or surpass to ensure for future investment. In other words, we have to provide a space for developer. Downtown, we gave him three floors. Well, it doesn't work because they don't have enough height. And we lose the floor space and the tax base of the upper two or three floors. Out here at what I call the crossroads, we need to provide for a taller structure so that they can afford to put in the money that will build a structure and look like a structure that we wanted to and provide a project will be valid for a long period of time. And I say, it's surrounded by buildings that are five and six stores. We should allow a six to seven storey maximum. In the master plan, it says two to four. That just doesn't work because my grandchildren can't pay for what they have to pay for in the future. If we don't have taxes on those, that's our city airspace. And if we don't develop it through these developments, right now we won't have in the future to collect tax on. They're not gonna come back, well, maybe some of them will come back in 20 years and they'll knock down the building and start over, but that's not we want. We want it now. Barking structure be as it you all probably been to harbor national harbor. Excuse me, I spent a lot of time outside split and far wouldn't have got cold. But at the National Harbor, they have the parking structures integrated. You don't even know they're there. I mean, they're integrated. They're the same height. There's all the other buildings, all the buildings are six and seven stories. And they're all integrated. And you go from, you go in and every block has two or three parking structures. Actually they got about twice as many parking structures as they need a present for present use but they know they're going to get slots over there and so they need all those parking spaces but when you go to look look at the parking and see how much there is. I mean, it seems like a third of the spaces in parking right, but we don't need that, but we need the concept. It blends in very little surface parking. I believe if we use that concept, then we have storefronts around most of the first floor of all the buildings. And they have storefronts. The storefronts need to provide a space where you can for 20 minutes, 30 minutes can park in front of their store or they can deliver or whatever. But you need to provide service lane and parking in front of all of those storefronts. And I see it. And note the mentioned is given on the plan and Maryots tried to design their plan and they don't have the dimensions so they said the building were they want. So I see we have three lanes of traffic going one direction on route 50 and three lanes on 123. Then we have a tree space of six to eight feet, which we generally have over there now. Then we have a travel lane of 12 feet, which would be one way, around the project one way. And on that, there's a parallel parking. So visually, as you pass, you have a bit of separation, but your sidewalk is at the building at the store away from the Main Street Travel. So you have a progression, you have two rows of trees, because you have a row of tree at the edge of the street, and you have a row of trees at the curb inside. If I could have a glass of water, somebody might find the glass of water. And then there'd be a 12 to 16 foot sidewalk. Now I'm talking about these things because nobody seems to have talked about this with a master plan. A master plan may have shown it someplace. But to build the master plan and build this process, you need to think of these service areas. They have to be service areas within the courts. That's to be spaces for generation in that. But you'll see at National Harbor, they've incorporated those into the buildings in service areas where they have very large garages where you can put semi trucks inside, unload and load and it works very well. Now the two properties at the corner of Chain Bridge and Eden Place, ones of President and office building, they say they don't want to give up. I've sat through two presentations for Merriott, so I've gotten a lot of information from what they're thinking. Now we know that a little office building complex, I think, that three buildings, they don't want to give it up because they have talk doctors who have their tenants, and they just don't want to give it up. But Maryots' piece next door is a wedge. And the master plan shows those two pieces being tied together. And if those two pieces are tied together, then we get a building of a size on that corner that is the quality that that corner deserves because that's the gateway coming into Fair Black City. That basically the first thing you see coming in from 66 that corner and it should be one building one design one piece one service but if they're developed individually it's not going to work it's not going to look that way. Striggled, thank you. I appreciate also, I want to note that you have submitted a comment for the record I believe this evening as well. Yes. And if I could, if you could complete your thoughts, but if you could try to wind up the next five minutes, that would be very helpful. Okay. Because the master plan has not been defined, well defined, Maria says that they have a January 13th deadline. Now you all probably won't deal with Maria Project, but you may deal with the master plan. And if they're allowed to plug in a building on a non-conforming site shape that doesn't consider the two or three streets around it, they're assuming that they're going to write in the right out access onto $123, which would set a precedent. They can't have that. They have to have their access off of the service road just like the best Western motel there. On my next point, I live over there and the architecture really depends on me. The exact building has been built in Maryland and if you see that building has one side, the backside, what I call the backside, three floors are blank because inside it's service area. So as a brick wall it goes up three floors. So that's the side. They've turned to 123 and the orchard street. So you have a dead space on those two streets. Those three value, they've turned the street, the windows and it'll lobby and things on the backside where they have their entrance. And I like the concept of Extendstay hotels in a primary place like that. It should be pushed off to the side. It's a second rate use. It's a 1980s use. And as I say, it's a warehouse do it yourself, then reckless. I just don't like the concept that it shouldn't be up there in the front. The interior access, of course, will be for this whole complex. East of 123 and north of group 50 and south of Edenplace Interior would be provided only by three access points university And orchard street orchard street coming across because it'll extend across from the west side because That north facts property over there has to have an entrance on to 123 so they'll have an entrance So theoretically we'll have another light there in the middle with the cross street. And the other cross street going through where floodwarkers is going right through where floodwarkers is going back in there to see that. I do this because I live over there. I'm semi-retired. I have nothing else to think about. And I see these... Maria came to my neighborhood with five in tow. I mean they just had every day. The architect, the civil engineer, the landscape architecture, the director planning, the vice president of the company. And somehow I get very nervous that they're trying to push something that shouldn't be pushed on us. I'm the only one over there complaining. they also own an audience are sweet, but I look through it. It is the ugliest building and it's the wrong idea to allow them to define any piece of the master plan until we give them the numbers to build their site. It may come to you in the future. But if not, thank you. Before you go, are there any questions for Mr. Riggle from members of the council? Okay, thank you very much for attending the meeting this evening. Very good. Any other comments from the audience? Any other remarks during the public comment period? Okay, well then we will close this item and move on to the next agenda item, which is a consideration of the application of JDC Judicial LLC for approval of consolidation of tax map parcels 57-1-02-117-118 and 119-A pursuant to chapter 86 of the city code. In order to create one lot, parcel A for a commercial development located at 10631-106331064510649 Main Street. Ms. Cutterlesson. Members of the Planning Commission, Grace Eater's Alleyo of the Planning Office will give you this staff report. Good evening and welcome. Good evening and welcome. Good evening, commission. The site before you is located at the intersection of Main Street and Judicial Drive to the West is Plan Development to the North is Plan Development in C2 to the East is the Everly Funeral Home to the South is the City Cemetery and floodplain in RPA on the southern portion of the site. The three areas delineated by stars actually represent the lots that would be consolidated. The applicant received a city approval, City Council approval on January 22nd to redevelop the three parcels by constructing a 3650 square foot bank with associated parking and two drive through lanes. The City Council's approvals included requests to rezone the three parcels from our three residential and C2 commercial to C2 commercial with proffers. They also granted a variance to permit subdivision of the lots without the requirement of a right of a way. In addition, there were special use permits granted to develop within the floodplain and the law of financial institution with two drive through lanes. And special exceptions will grant it to allow construction and grading in the RPA, modification of the stocking requirement, and the modification of loading space requirement. And here before you use the general development plan that was approved. At the bottom is on Main Street, the north of the property and along the west side is judicial drive. PNC Bank is located in the northwest corner of the property and Parking is adjacent to that. There's also a two-way drive-through lane behind PNC Bank. Furnage improvements will be provided along Main Street and Digital Drive, and that will include gas lights and street trees and a brick sidewalk. This is the consolidation in easement plat. The area is highlighted and red actually represent the easements that will be granted to the city. At the very bottom, you see a public access easement that serves main streets and goes along to judicial drive. There is also a site distance easement that will serve the entrance on Main Street. And another site distance easement that will serve the entrance on Digital Drive. There's a traffic signalization easement in the northwest corner of the property. And the area is highlighted in yellow actually or the lots that will be eliminated after the consolidation of the lot. The subdivision, the consolidation in easement flat meets the requirements of the subdivision ordinance and the site plan is consistent with the comprehensive plan and the GDP approved by city council. Therefore, staff recommends that approval of the consolidation of the consolidation easement plan be approved with the following condition. That the planning commission chair would hold approval signature onto the final site plan is approved. And the deed subsequent to the city attorney's approval is updated to grant the signalization easement to the city and to delete the water easement Jason to Main Street and that concludes the presentation. Thank you Thank you very succinct and well done. Thank you very much. Are there any questions for staff? Mr. Foster Mr Chairman I move that the Planning Commission approved the consolidation and easement plan for JDC judicial drive LLC. E&C Bank also known as a 10631 10633 10645 10649 Main Street tax map parcels 57-1, hence these two dash 117, 118 and 119A, because it is in conformance with the general development plan. Special exception permit, special use permit, plan approved with it rezoning and land use cases for the property. And because it meets the requisites of the city code with the following condition. The Planning Commission Chair will withhold approval signature until the final site plan is approved and indeed subsequent to the city attorney's approval is updated to grant the signalization easement to the city and to delete the water easement adjacent to Main Street. We have a motion by Mr. Foster. Is there a second? Second, Mr. Vouchali. Very good. Discussion? Mr. Cuddy. No. No. Okay. Would anyone like to call the question? So called. Very good. All right. All those in favor of the motion as presented, please say aye. Aye. All those opposed? Abstention? Very good passes you now, honestly. Thank you very much. Okay, moving on to the next agenda item, which is a public hearing to consider the proposed capital improvement program, CIP, for fiscal year's 2010 through 2014. We'll begin with an introduction of the capital improvement program and then we'll have individual departmental presentations. Ms. Codalasa? Yes. Assistant Manager David Hodgkins will begin the presentation this evening. Right. Welcome, Ms. Hodgkins. Thank you. Good evening, Chairman, members of the Planning Commission. We'd like to give you a short presentation today to go over for the public, really, the brief, the responsibilities of the different organizations and departments relating to the CIP. And then, as you said, we will have this city staff here to give brief presentations and to answer questions after we go through this. Thank you. And I'd like to start, we do have a PowerPoint presentation on the capital improvement program. And if we can go to the first slide, just an overview, the primary tool for implementing the comprehensive plan and adopting city policies is this what we consider the CIP or the capital improvement program. It is a five year planning document and we use it as an evaluation of the capital projects and also we use it as it outlines a timeline in finance schedules for the different capital programs. In brief the CIP review process for the planning commission which is authorized by the Code of Virginia, subject to the Director of the Council. Basically starts with a review of the City Manager's proposed CIP, which has been distributed. The planning commission reviews it for consistency with adopted city policies and the comprehensive plan and of course holds a work session in a public hearing as we're doing tonight. The focus is on the implications on land uses and other broad planning issues, not specific or individual programs. And then the Planning Commission makes recommendations to the City Council, the Budget Committee and the city manager. In this year is the first year in which we have a budget committee and they obviously be inserted into the process. The city council, the review process for the city council includes receiving input from the staff, the planning commission, the budget committee, and the public during its review process. The review of the CIP is concurrent with the operating budget preparation and review. The balance is, or it does balance, the timing and financing of capital improvements with the operating expenditures and expected revenues. The final approval is also within the authority of the City Council. And of course, City staff is responsible for implementing the capital improvement program. To give everyone an idea of the challenges that we're facing in this particular year, and also especially next year, we are looking at projected deficit at this time of about $1.2 million for fiscal year 2009 and also for over $12 million for fiscal year 2010. And obviously this sort of thing needs to be taken into consideration when we look at or consider our capital improvement program. And if I could perhaps bring you to I'm sure you may have already reviewed this but within the capital improvement program for fiscal year 2010 or I should say that proposed these there's more detail of these projections on page 14 and 15. And our highlights or budget projection highlights for the year include, well, really what has driven these deficits and some of the challenges that we have now, which is not unique to the City of Fairfax or even this region, which includes a downturn in the real estate market, a downturn in the economy overall. And most notably, we see this and it's also something that we use to trend other revenues in taxes, which is our sales tax, which has also been diminishing over time. In our personal property tax also had a very, is taking a very large hit in fiscal year 2010. Though in 2009, we actually did receive a little bit of a bump in the personal property tax. But those are the main drivers in our projections for fiscal year 2009 and 10. Just very briefly, I wanted to go over the projects, the CIP projects, or proposed CIP projects for fiscal year 2010 to include our general government, our parks and recreation and community appearance, our environment and transportation. This year because of the challenges that we're facing, we have very greatly reduced capital improvement program that we're proposing. And so it will take that long to go through these individual projects, but our department heads are here and they will comment a little further on some of these projects and given overview similar to what they did on the work session last Monday. Just quickly our 2010 general government projects include a cable TV equipment of $115,000. Now this item does not come out of the general fund. We do receive this as considered a cable grant and so that money is paid outside of the general fund. It does not impact our general fund. We have about $24,000 that is budgeted for the Northern Virginia Community College. $640,000 for vehicles and equipment replacement and a fleet consultant of $80,000, which is a new item. And this is an item. What's brought on board we're hoping'll actually save us money in other areas. Also optical sensors for traffic lights in the amount of $55,300. General government continued. We have station 33 maintenance in the amount of $10,000. Fire station three maintenance in the amount of $10,000 by our station, three maintenance in the amount of $104,000. Police information technology, $35,000. Police vehicle replacement, $251,000. Police radio replacement, $85,000. In this year we don't have as many recreation and community appearance projects as we have had in the past. It's limited to our $60,000 contribution to the Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority, which is an annual contribution, planting and beautification of $30,000 in bridge replacement for Ranger Road Park in Wilcox and in Oldly Highway, $60,000 each. And these items are, again, these are replacements and it's due to safety concerns. Under environment, we have the storm drainage maintenance in the amount of $25,000. Storm sewer lining, which is a new item for $50,000. In storm water management initiatives, in the amount of $10,000. And this item, this particular item, is also funded by a different fund, the storm water fund, and would not have an impact on the general fund. Transportation projects include brick sidewalk maintenance, $90,000, curb gutter sidewalk maintenance $160,000, street repaving program of $500,000, which is about half of what we have had in the past. And this has been cut down significantly this current year and also planned for the next fiscal year due to the budget constraints. Downtown Crosswalk Rehabilitation for $20,000. This is a new item. Main street drainage improvements, 85,000 streetlights, 25,000. Video detector systems, 45,000. Refurbishing existing traffic lights, 35,000. Other items under transportation, which we broke out separately because they are funded at this point by grants. And that includes our route 29 spot improvements for $350,000. North Fax gateway highway and sewer, $704,000. And the chain bridge road replacement, which is a new item for $200,000. And those items are planned again to be paid for outside of the general fund. And those items are planned again to be paid for outside of the general fund. And we want to bring your attention to some items that don't directly relate to the fiscal year, 2010 proposed CIP. But these are items that the Budget Committee and the Council had agreed, and the city staff had agreed, should be deferred in this current year in an effort to balance the current year budget. And these items include street light replacements of $40,000, vehicle replacements of $289,000. Please vehicle replacement of $35,000. The cut and repart tennis court refurbishing in the amount of $15,000 overhead video detectors of 25,000 and again the street repaying of $400,000. And those total about $804,000 and those items were taken out of the fiscal 09 CIP. They were approved when the budget was put together but taken out in an effort to balance the current year budget. And many of these items or eventually all of these items are really deferrals. These are not items that were cut permanently but deferred to save money in the current year. The next slide shows you the proposed budget calendar for this current year, and which starting with March of 2009, or the March 2009 work session in which the city manager presents the proposed budget to the city council. And at that point, we will have the proposed CIP and the proposed operating budget merged into one document. We also plan on an outreach meeting on March 9th, which is something that we have not done at this early stage in the past. In March 17th and 18th, the staff will make presentations for their operating budgets and CIP budgets to the City Council as has been done in the past and on the March 24th, the council will consider the real estate tax rate to be advertised and also have a work session on the fiscal year 2010 budget. March 31st will be another outreach meeting in work session. April 7th will be a work session in a discussion of the 2010 budget. April 14th, there will be a public hearing on the real estate tax rate in a work session on the 2010 budget. In April 28th, the council will adopt the budget. And this is, this date is much later than what it has been in the past, about two weeks, two or more weeks later than it normally is. And the purpose for that is, the reason for that is, Fairfax County oftentimes, or they do typically adopt their budget after the city adopts its budget in a large percentage of our expenditures are generated from the Fairfax County budget. And we're hoping that we will get a better idea, better feel for what our expenses may be in the upcoming year if they do, indeed adopt their budget before we do. And that is the reason that is being pushed back. And of course, on July one is the implementation of the budget. And in conclusion, what I think the council is looking for and the staff and the budget committee would be the findings and recommendations of the planning commission relating to the CIP program. And looking at the consistency or determining the consistency with the comprehensive plan and adopted city policies and any recommended program changes or program priorities. And at this time, I'd like to take any questions the Plenty Commission may have, or we can move on to the short presentations by city staff, and then of course questions could be asked of each of the department heads after their presentations. First, Mr. Hodgkin's, thank you for that very brief and very helpful overview. For those who are viewing this hearing from home, I just want to note that we had the benefit of all the departmental managers at our work session, as you noted a week ago on the semper first. And it's my understanding that that can be viewed on the city website. The members of the commission extensively questioned, in fact, the departmental managers and it was very helpful. We have a very talented, a very committed city staff and I just want to commend you and all the folks who are representing your various departments and thank you for that. If there is a consensus among the commission, I'd like us to move to the departmental presentations and we can do Q&A subsequent to that. I have to say the one thing I really want to focus on is particularly looking at the priorities for the city and what is critically needed in each department. As you've summarized here, I expect there will be some questioning on transportation issues, on Fairfax Boulevard, on a parks master plan and other areas where there's been interest on the part of the commission. But looking at the tax realities, the shortfall, $1.2 million, and then $12 million in the following year. Clearly, we working with our colleagues on City Council and as well the budget committee. This is a very important process we're in with the city staff this year. Is there a consensus to move on to the departmental presentations? Why don't we begin with that? Thank you. And if I could start, I'd like to introduce Chief Rapp report with the police department to give a brief presentation on his projects. Chief, welcome again. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I know your time is valuable tonight, so I'll just quickly summarize what we talked about a week ago. Our request this year consists of three items, the police information technology requesting amount of $35,000. This funds replacement equipment, all kinds of technology equipment from computers and the cars, to radios, the radios that drive our computer-rated dispatch system, to desktop computers, the computers that we use for investigations, as well as all the hardware that runs in the background, the switches, the networks, all the connections that make all that work and keep us connected, both with our federal partners and state partners and other departments around the region. Our second request is for replacement vehicles, for police vehicles in the amount of $251,000. Again, this is kind of a best educated guess based on our consultation with our mechanics and those people who maintain our cars in the shop. Just like anyone else who owns a car, we try to get it the most usable life we can out of it, but not stretch it to the point that it breaks. Because if you go out in your driveway and it doesn't start one day, that's an inconvenience. But if it breaks 200 miles from home on a family vacation, that's a whole different matter. That's kind of a disaster. We don't want to get to the disaster. So this is our best educated guess on what vehicles will need to be replaced by the time this budget year actually gets here when we go all the way through that budget year. If the time comes and the vehicle does need to be replaced, we simply don't spend the money we carried over or you're back to be carried over into the next budget year. We take the car as far as we can possibly take it. The third request is a police radio replacement request, the amount of $85,000. This is our second year of a five-year request. The technology and police radio communications is changing. We need to upgrade our radios to maintain interoperability with all of our partners in the region, all the other police departments and federal enforcement agencies in the wake of post 9-11. One of the big concerns in this area was that departments be able to communicate with each other in times of disaster or other emergency. We've accomplished that, but as the standards change and the radio equipment improves, we all have to change together or we lose the interoperability capability. This is year two of a five-year track to keep us in touch with everyone else, and we would respectfully ask you support for that program. And Chief, if I remember correctly, you had said the police radio replacement was a very high priority for the department. Well, it's hard to say the other two aren't necessary, but certainly the radios are top of the list. We've got to keep on track on that five-year program. Right. Are there any questions for the Chief while he is at the podium? Is the Coach Ali? Yes, Chief, I have one question. Do these radios make compatible with the fire department? Are they? Yes. Okay, so you'll be able to, all first responders will be able to. That's correct, sir. That's correct. Thank you. Yes, please. Chief, thank you for your presentation. Will your radios be affected by the 2009 digital transition? All of our – all the radios are currently digital, so I'm not a technical person, but I think the answer to that is no. Okay, so you have what you need at a bare minimum to not be cut off come February with the transition in any way shape or form? No, no, no. That doesn't affect police radio communications whatsoever. Okay, thank you. Okay. Any other questions for the chief? Mr. Foster. What is the age of the fleet, the average age of the cruisers? What's the average life of a cruiser? Do you measure it in time or mileage or I mean how do you? Well we try not to run cars longer than about 10 years. It's really a mix. It's a combination of years in mileage and service record. The most important being service record. But historically we get somewhere about around eight to 10 years and somewhere between 85 and 100,000 miles out of the falls. And the mileage is somewhat deceptive because the car's spending off a lot of time idling when they have to run all the time in order to power all the equipment. So unlike a personally owned vehicle when you get into it, you go from point A to point B, you turn the motor off and you leave it for a couple hours. When it gets in the car at the beginning of the shift, unless they're out of the car, it's running all the time regardless of whether sitting still or going somewhere. So, the mileage tends to be a conservative estimate of the actual wear and tear on the engine and the other components. And so the most important, really the most important consideration is the opinion of the mechanics in terms of how much serviceable life they think is remaining in the major components like the electrical system, the engine and transmission, things like that. Thank you. Good. Yes. I could follow on to that. Sure. Just a rough idea of how many vehicles are in the fleet and are there vehicles other than cars? Good question. Yeah. Work credited with, I believe, 61 vehicles, not all of those are motorized. That runs the gamut from the speed watch trailers to all the way up to our big emergency command vehicle. It also includes some four-wheel drive vehicles that we use. One's used for example for our truck safety inspection program. It even includes the old car that you see in parades from time to time. Includes motorcycles. But total about 61 vehicles are credited to the police department. Okay, Mr. Cummings. Following fuel prices appear to be providing a benefit somewhat budget-wise. I would think at the present time as you indicate to vehicles after run all the time. As such, is that going to add a benefit to the operating budget in maintaining your cars? And then I guess the second point to this is we look down the line as regards what's happening with the big three automakers. In the out years and looking at CIP as we get to vehicle replacement, is there a time when moving to more fuel efficient vehicles needs to be planned into this process as we look at fuel prices rising again and or the kind of cars that we're operating now potentially being less available. Two good questions. I'll try to hit all the points you asked about. Certainly the following fuel prices has been a benefit to us. We do our best and I know that we try our best to buy equipment that is energy efficient. Things like light bars and sirens have gotten considerably more energy efficient. You've gone from the great big, essentially a light bulb kind of systems to the very thin line strobe systems that you see now, but those are not cheap. And we tend to recycle equipment from car to car as long as it lasts. So we're slowly moving to the more energy efficient equipment. And down the road, that will make it to a point where we don't have to run the cars all the time to power. But again, as a trade off, it costs a lot of money to upgrade to that equipment today, and you're only saving a little bit in gas. And that thought drives the second issue of switching over cars themselves. We spend about as much money on the equipment that goes in the car as we spend on the car itself. And a lot of that equipment transfers from car to car. You can take the cage that you put in the back of the car to confine a prisoner and that will go through two or three cars before it needs to be replaced, but it's an expensive piece of equipment. Same with shotgun racks, radio racks, all that light bars, all that equipment. So the notion of downsizing to a smaller car might save us a little bit of money in the cost of the car, maybe. It might say, it will definitely save us a little bit of money in the cost of the car. Maybe, might say, will definitely save us some money in fuel efficiency, but it's offset by having to repurchase all the equipment that goes with it. And as I told you in our work session, I think the day's coming when we, you will see fleets downsized, driven by fuel and other considerations. But it'll be an expensive proposition to take that many cars and purchase all new equipment for the interiors. And I wouldn't recommend we go down that road and tough budget times. I think that's one of those things when you kind of save and you think this is a good time to do it. And we'll make the investment that will pay for itself in the future. But now when the economy is as tight, I wouldn't recommend it. Thank you, great. Mr. Foster. I have a question, Mr. Hodgkin. Do we in our financial practices use pictures options to edge off our fuel costs? No, we do not. Is it allowed in city policy? Well, I'd have to check on that quite honestly. I mean, you could consider that we do this to a degree on other things. It's basically a prepayment for things. And that's something that we could check into to see if that could be done as a prepayment to lock in the costs. Thank you. Right. J. H. I. V. I. V. Thank you. During our work session, we spoke about one of the presidential campaigns coming to town and occupying Van Dyke Park. And we just want to commend you. It was great to see all of the investment in public safety pay off for us that day, a smooth event. And all the feedback from students and adults alike who were part of the event was that it was very smooth. Congratulations. Thank you very much. All right, why don't we move on to our next presentation. The next person that I'd like to bring up is a chief Owens of the Fire Department. Chief Owens, welcome back. Thank you. Good evening. Much like Chief Rapaport, we spent a great deal of time at your work session going through not only the items that are in the current fiscal year CIP request, but helping you look at some of the fiscal planning that we're doing through the out years in the CIP. Rather than repeat that entire basis, what I'd like to do this evening for the sake of time is focus on those three items that were outlined by Mr. Hodgkins that are in the actual FY10 request. By the priority that we indicated to you during the work session, those have been carried forward in the presentation this evening. And the first item is our optical sensors for the traffic signal preemption system. Our traffic signal preemption is a program that we started quite a number of years ago in the city, where the traffic signals at strategically located intersections, which are our primary pass of travel for emergency vehicles. Our quip with electronic devices that actually allow our fire and EMS vehicles to change the traffic signal in the favor of their direction during an emergency response. This not only improves the safety for our responders so that that emergency vehicle can have safe passage, but by allowing the motoring public that is stacked up often times in the lanes in the same direction of travel to move ahead of the emergency vehicle, it actually allows our motoring public to space themselves out and be able to pull to the curb and yield a lot safer and not have circumstances where they are being literally forced out into cross traffic at an intersection in order to give way to an emergency vehicle that's trying to get through. We're very close to completing equipping the strategic intersections in the city. This funding being requested really represents what we hope is the final year of the final 10 intersections to bring that program to completion. It is our number one priority in the fire department and our request as we identify during the work session. The next two projects are simply to continue to protect the city's investment in its infrastructure and those are maintenance items at both fire station 3 and fire station 33. Fire Station 33's project is to replace our equipment storage shed that's in the back, which is about 25 years old now. And the Fire Station 3 items are to deal with some infrastructure failure that we're actually having in the station with the apparatus Bay floor that is cracking and sinking in one area, as well as being able to do some basic remodeling and upkeep, painting remodeling of an office in the kitchen. Those two projects, Station 33 is valued at $10,000 in Station 3's projects or $104,000 in the FY 10 budget. And those are our three items in the priority, and I'll certainly be happy to answer questions. Thank you, Chief Owens. Any questions from the commission? Mr. Kaleen. I have one regarding the optical sensors and the idea that they provide improved operation for the fire department going through intersections is good. My question is going to revolve around something I observed this past weekend. And the question will be is there interoperability with the county or other folks in using this kind of safety mechanism? in using this kind of safety mechanism. And two is there something this connection and could you describe it in terms of warning traffic that's coming up to one of these intersections to slow down. What I observed this past weekend, as I was coming back on 123 from church, so traffic was not real heavy and it was just across 66 coming south on 123 at the Bob Evans intersection. As I was coming south, a fire truck was responding from that, the fire station over in that vicinity. And it in fact came out, stopped at the intersection, turned right crossed the bridge into Fairfax City, and responded to something here in the city. But what I observed coming in traffic and was about the fourth car back was that the light had turned green. Traffic was proceeding south on 123, with the car stopped and the left turn lane to Bob Evans. As the truck came, the light was remained green, but the truck was approaching from the right-hand side with siren and lights operating. Two cars going south on 123 stopped at the intersection. In the left-hand lane there was nobody behind the first car. In the right-hand lane there were two vehicles following. The right-hand lane and both vehicles stopped at the, essentially, the white line or the intersection for the emergency vehicle. The second car in the right lane reacted a little slowly and stopped very, very precipitously right behind the first car. The third car coming along in the right-hand lane wasn't paying adequate attention. I don't believe to what was going on. Ended up stopping, but was not stopped by the time he got to the second car. So he swirled left to go around him. And he missed the two cars on the right. And fortunately there was sufficient space between the two cars at the front that he came to a stop right between them. And none of those vehicles touched as I was the next car coming below behind this observing it. But once they all stopped, the fire engine proceeded. Had there been warning, perhaps the vehicles would have slowed down or noticed the light changing, too, we could have had a fork our accident right there while people were stopping for an emergency vehicle. And that wouldn't have been unusual in watching the other vehicles. Had they collided with the speeds and the reaction times of the drivers. So I guess my two questions. One, can the county take advantage of our system if they're responding to things in the city? And I'm aware that county trucks come into the city as well as city trucks respond to requirements outside the city. Two, is it built into our lights within the city so that you warn drivers coming up that the lights are going to change out of sequence or Or change people's expectations for general traffic coming through these intersections. Okay I've been in this business 39 years and I could write a book on the wild things I've seen is emergency vehicles approach intersections The the short answer to your first, can the county units use the city system? The answer is yes, if the emergency vehicle is equipped with the optical emitter. The way this system works is each emergency vehicle has a flashing white light. It's actually emitting an infrared beam of light that hits a detector head on the actual traffic control device itself, whether it's hanging on the wire or it's mounted on the pole cross arm. That's what receives the signal that this is an authorized vehicle in order to give right away by changing the light sequence to green in that direction of travel. If the county's units have the emitter, the answer is yes, they are then able to activate the preemption equipment on the city's traffic signals. Not all of the Fairfax county units currently have the emitter though. So it sounds to me listening to what you described is that emergency vehicle probably did not and the reason I would suspect that is because the emitter is able to trip that traffic light up to 2500 feet ahead of the emergency vehicle and you need a lot of lead time so that the motoring public sees a green light and begins their forward motion so that it opens that travel lane up. Listening to what you've described, my sense is that particular vehicle was not equipped to activate the preemption. Now, the second part of your question is, is there warning? The only real warning that there is is that the traffic signal runs its cycle. So even when the preemptor comes it shows you a yellow light before it goes green and it's almost like going from a red to a yellow to a green or a green to a yellow to a red. What the emitter equipment does is actually show you a yellow to tell you very briefly that the light is about to change before it then goes green. So it's almost backwards of what you typically, the other thing is at least in the city and not all systems. This is an option that we chose to add. If you notice our detectors on the traffic light, there is a white light bulb that is mounted with the detector. As soon as our vehicles trip that sensor, that white light bulb comes on. That's really more to tell our emergency vehicle driver that the system's working, that it's recognized it's an emergency vehicle and it is about to change the light. It really doesn't do anything for the motoring public because they probably don't understand what that white light is signaling to them. But that's the way the system is set, vehicles of the county that come through the city that are equipped with the emitters on their units, they use our system all the time currently. Thank you. Mr. Robinson, any questions? Mr. Foster? Mr. Landis? Mr. Bochali? Thank you, Chief. Very much. Thank you. Next, I'd like to introduce Mr. Michael McCarty with the Parks and Recreation Department. Good evening. Good evening,. I'll be brief just like my counterparts here. Previously we talked about a couple of our main items that are on the capital budget for FY 2010. And along with going with the approach of trying to select, where these items will be based on how it fits into the comprehensive plan that one of the main purposes of our selection in our recommendation it relates to safety of park patrons, the park and staff to maintain the items within the park along with budget constraints extensively reviewing all of our capital items with our staff and with the parks and recreation and advisory Advisory Board and Gain and Citizen Input. In fact, Citizen Input also helped drive how we focus not only in the FY 2010 budget, but our out years. We recently did a survey back in 2007 of 2,000 households in the city of Fairfax with 448 responses on their attitudes and interests with in parts of recreation and out of 448 responses we received about a 95% level of confidence and one of the most interesting items that came back was how people would spend their tax dollars on parts of recreation issues And the number one response was upgrading and maintaining existing park and recreation facilities. And that's shown throughout the 2010, as well as the out years of our capital budget. The two items that we recommend, and the only two items that we recommend for the 2010 budget, is a replacement of the Ranger Road Bridge at $60,000. And there will coxen bridge which is located between the Patriot Harley dealership and the New Uptown Sushi restaurant. Both of those are safety related items. In fact, one Ranger Road park bridge, which is really the only access from Ranger Road in the communities over in that area to get into the park and use the park amenities is seriously deteriorating. It's basically half the structural rating that bridge can hold and it also becomes an issue of actually maintaining security within the park or currently our police motorcycle vehicles cannot go over that bridge in order to secure that park We're seeing the same type of day. We get it Gatian over at the Wilcoxon bridge and that also is a replacement of $60,000 Third any questions on behalf of you? Well just an observation from last week's work session to commend you, to commend Brian Napp as chair of the Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee, as well as the City Council. It has been an amazing year for Parks and Recreation in the City of Fairfax with the completion of Stafford West and Draper Drive Park and other work beginning in the other parks. It's just been an amazing year. Granted, much of that has been through depth financing, but regardless, the benefit to the citizens and the residents of both the city and the county are just tremendous. And you would be commended for your role and all of that. I'm sure there's some commissioner comments or questions. Ms. Robinson, can I turn to you? Okay, Mr. Cuester, is it coming in? You've mentioned two items. There are two other items on here, the Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority contribution, which has been left under the CIP program. And planning and beautification, do you have comment on those two items? Sure, the Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority payment is an annual payment into the membership of Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority. All of our citizens actually gain a benefit of being a member jurisdiction of the Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority. It allows our citizens to participate in any of their programs, any of their facilities, whether it's their golf course, water facilities, or just their general parks, at member jurisdiction rates. It also helps maintain their capital budget, which services the WD, OD Trail also Gateway Park, which is a park here in the city of Fairfax that is maintained by the Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority on Picket and Old Picket. The other item, the planning and beautification is actually not within the Parks and Recreation budget to maintain, but it comes under the public works department. Mr. Bouchelli. Ms. Landis. I think you would hate to pick, but I'm just curious which one of these bridges in your opinion is in worst shape? Well, Ranger Road is currently rated a half the rating for that park and the structural integrity of that bridge. Well, Coxin is right behind it. It could be any day now that we actually have to cut that rating in half. They're both equally important, equally high priorities to get them replaced. Thank you. Yes, please. Thank you. Just to piggyback on that, what is the city's liability as far as you're saying that the bridge is rated at half of what it should be? Is this a situation where it's an accident waiting to happen or is the rating a preferred thing or is this a legal mandate as a city run park i.e. If this bridge were to structurally collapse or something obviously there'd be liability anyway. But are we being negligent if this bridge isn't fixed or is it technically still within its lifespan and its feasibility? Well, it's within its lifespan of what originally was designed to do. The problem is it's deteriorating faster than it was originally designed. And that's environmental issues. It's also maintenance issues over a number of years. One of these bridges is 10 years old. One is 20 years old. In fact, the Wilcoxon bridge is almost 20 years old compared to the Ranger Road bridge, which is only 10 years old. And a lot of it has to do with if someone has put down salt for maintaining it and starts to, you know, road the steel. We ultimately would be liable in any case, whatever happens out there. I guess it just comes down to, are we, a month away from us reading it that it's unusable altogether, or are we, are year away and do we want to take that risk? It's good to get. To follow up with that, we have similar bridges throughout the city and in various of our parks. And I believe it's one year or two years ago, we had a bridge that connects essentially Spring Lake Terrace with Dale Drive or Dale Road. And that bridge was used by school children for walking to school at Daniel Run Elementary. Yes. That hit a safety point at which it was condemned and children were prohibited from using it to transfer to and from school. And I know when that happened, it suddenly became a very high priority item and had the interest of great many people. So with that bridge closed, it was replaced rather quickly when it finally hit the safety standpoint of not being passable. Would you judge that these bridges are getting to essentially that standpoint and that I know it's a safety issue if police motorcycles and riders can't go over it, but they're probably heavier than some users. at safety for them to be able to patrol those areas too for people to be able to use it in normal course if we're getting that close. Are we at that point with either of these bridges? I wasn't here when that that Bridget of Speaking of was rated that way. As I said, it could be a month from now, it could be a year from now. But there is a route that people take to get the Fairfax High School, and it would become a significant issue if people happen to reroute around that to get on their school routes. With much. I just have another question about that. Are both these bridges motor vehicle acceptable? You can ride motor vehicles across both these. Motorcycle. Motorcycle. Motorcycle. Yes. For patrols. They're not out. We don't allow motorcycles within the parks. It's just for patrols for security at the park. Thank you. A year ago at this time, the Planning Commission embraced for security at the park. Thank you. A year ago at this time, the Planning Commission embraced or endorsed a request from the committee looking at the importance or acknowledging the importance of a master plan for parks and recreation. We were doing that, if I may speak, crawl in recognition that we were going to be updating the comprehensive plan and we thought the importance of a green community, a community that embraced recreational activities with the vision towards the future, it would be very helpful to have a document to slip into the update that we're about to begin of the comprehensive plan. to slip into the update that we're about to begin of the Comprehensive Plan. As we really begin next year to focus on the Comprehensive Plan and its updates, I guess my question to you as staff is, are you prepared to play that role? Literally recommending to us the priorities that we were hoping outside consultant could produce for us. Hopefully I can use, good of a job as an outside consultant for that. But yes, I'm definitely prepared to come forward with recommendations from the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board, groups like Commission on the Arts, all of our users to be able to share what we think need to be priorities or strategic approaches to Parks and Recreation for the next revision of the comprehensive plan. In fact, the parks and recreation advisory board, as we stated at the last meeting, is doing their two year update of going out and actually walking through all the parks, evaluating them, coming back with presentations to the rest of the parks and recreation advisory board and making some recommendations. We're going to try to compile their thoughts and their impressions on the future needs of Parks and Recreation as it relates to the comprehensive plan. And that is a discussion item at their next crab meeting, too. Great. Thank you very much. Any other questions? All right. Thank you. Have a good evening. Thank you very much. Mr. Oshkins. thank you. Have a good evening. Thank you very much. Mr. Oshkins. Thank you. The next and final person I'd like to bring up for Department Head, I should say, is David Summers in charge of the Public Works Department? I actually, the one who closed that bridge, it's spring like terrace. The other side. They'll drive. Our CIP this year is pretty bare bones. There's certain things that are high priority, which I'd like to go over. The vehicle replacement, I know it's a large number, fleet maintains approximately 500 pieces of equipment, about 300 of them are vehicles. There's three vehicles that are way beyond their life and they're teetering on safety issues with rusted frames. And one is a trash truck, one is a leaf truck, and one is a brush truck. And we consider that a very high priority, that item. And we consider that a very high priority, that item. The other priority items would be ones that are maintaining our existing infrastructure, which would be anything that has to do with pavement, concrete, brick, storm, sewer, storm drain, or traffic signals. You know, what we have in here are parts, material, majority of this work will be done by in-house labor. So other than that, some of the other items like the fleet consultant, that's something that we think as Mr. Hodge can say, it could save us some money. The beautification, which I guess you thought was parks and rec, that's really our right away division which maintains all the landscaping for all the city own buildings and within the right away and the old town area. So that's what that money's for. The, I don't know if you feel free to ask me any questions on the transportation part, but that's not out of the general fund. That's you know state and federal money and If you have any questions here to add Well, I'm gonna repeat the question I asked during the work session again, and that was about the state of the city roads right and I mean I have noticed and I know many of my neighbors have noticed, that there are a growing number of potholes and other issues surrounding the city roads. And they vary from the high use roads to the middle use roads. But there's a general sense that the weather conditions road products that are cost effective in light of the budget crisis right now. And I, if you could speak to that issue, because again, this is one of the areas where the City Council and the budget committee has recommending to defer costs into future years, which from my perspective just means we're going to be paying that price tag a little bit later than immediately. But if you could shed some light on the situation, that would be helpful. Sure. I think a lot of this began when the price of liquid asphalt skyrocketed, and it really never came down as much as the price of gas. That's when the budget started. We started having problems with the budget. At the same time, our paving contractor requested an escalation. And we said no. And they were just about to pull out. And we worked with them. And they were going to continue. And then the budget was cut for the paving. We inspect the streets, every street, every year. And like I discussed at the work session, the original goal was based on statistics was to pay residential streets every 23 years and primary streets every 12 years. But as I said, that's a case by case basis. A lot of these streets were constructed with inadequate sub-base or on soft clay and they deteriorate quicker. Other streets seem to last longer has a lot to do with the traffic on there, how the asphalt was laid, some paving contractors are better than other, the mix. We continue to look at improved patching materials, techniques for repairing cracks and potholes, putting some certain kinds of fabrics down underneath the asphalt, so the street lasts longer. And also there are new mixes, some mixes coming out with some rubberized material in them which we're also looking into. We feel that the amount of money that we're asking for this fiscal year is less than what we typically ask for but is enough to keep the streets maintained at the level they are. We are letting more cosmetic deficiencies remain. We lost a lot of our, we don't have any contractor work and we lost a lot of our temporary help, our street department is, you know, picking up leaves and picking up trash. So the supervisors have a lot more pressure on themselves to look at things and decide can this wait or do we have to address this now? There's a lot more decisions to be made. So, but again, you know, we'll be coming back next year for paving money and it may be significantly more. Thank you. Are there any other questions or any questions from Mr. Robinson? And Mr. Hodgkins, you may be able to answer this as well. Are there any of the repairs either to the equipment or probably not so much the pay bank. But last week when President-elect Obama met with the governors and hinted that perhaps he'd be willing to put on the table different state projects. Is there anything that can be submitted to the state out of any of these requests, in particular from transportation and utilities that could possibly be part of a state stimulus package where the money could come from the back end. I mean, that would obviously change the perspective from which we look at all this, all these requests, but for things like roads, paving, essential equipment which I consider trash and, you know, the leaf, me personally, the leaves. You know, is any of that eligible or possibly eligible for inclusion in a state stimulus package? I know Alex, our Transportation Director, Alex is looking at what qualifies for that. And I know one of the projects that we're looking at to is the German Count Road construction project, which was funded out of the general fund. And I think Alex is seeing if we can get some money for that. I'm not sure if the capital, at least maintenance type of projects qualify. But if I can just add on to that, the answer is yes, we are looking into that from what we know about what may qualify. We do think we have some projects that will qualify. It's mainly from what we understand projects that can start or go to construction within a short period of time. And we do Germantown Road is a very good example. But we are looking at that and hoping some of our projects will. So that will number one save us the money. Number two, get some of these projects going. We're hoping that right now we don't have the funding for possibly the North Facts project. But the problem with some of these larger projects is they, you have a hard time getting them kickstarted quite as quickly for a number of reasons. But the answer is yes and we are hoping to benefit from the stimulus packages that we think are coming out. Mr. Hodgkins is fair to say that the definition of infrastructure under the stimulus is still very much in discussion at this time? Yes, that's our understanding. We don't have exact guidelines, but we are in the whole Northern Virginia region and probably the state and many other states too, or putting under the assumption that even though not knowing exactly what the qualifications are going to be, everyone is reacting and trying to put together descriptions of projects that we think would qualify. Right, Mr. Foster? On page 13 of Mr. Hartskins' presentation, there were three items listed as grant funding, which I assume means we're not talking about the general fund, maybe that's a bad assumption. And one of the items is the North Facts' Gateway 741,000. Is that state and federal money? Yes, it is. And what work are we going to do next year? Well this this is a project the North Facts which is another one of these projects that have been around for many many years and we are actually the 741 is and we've been appropriating money each year not just this year for this project and the 741 I may have to go back to see the exact details of that. But in this, I want to say in this case that it does not necessarily mean we have $741,000 in which we will be spending money on this year but money that we do qualify for this year. Over the years we've actually been saving up money for the North Facts Gateway Project and we have part of it funded but we don't have all the funding that we need. And as we get we get additional funding from the state and the feds and we actually we appropriated and we save it but we don't necessarily have the ability to spend it at this point. All right, so this goes back to our discussion that we had last week about V.Dot and the shifts that are going on in V.Dot and their spending priorities. And what you're saying, I guess, is what I'm hearing is that there's 741,000 as an item. It means that we qualify for those expenditures if V.D. decides to make them or can make them. Otherwise, we may not get any funding to do any work. I think some of these, some of the funds we do have guaranteed money coming in, in some of we've already, and won't say squirreld away, but it has been allocated to us and we will not lose it. But the problem that we're having with VEDOT is in the state, in the feds for that matter, is some of the monies that we are anticipating coming in over the years, you know, those monies are in danger. And right now we are looking for other ways to to bring in or to finance these projects because We will not get the money that had been anticipated and projected in the past a lot of that as you mentioned with the V dot cuts You know a lot of that money that we're anticipating is is going away So the bottom line is this is not really real money The seven can't count on that 741. The 741 we may be able to, and quite honestly I'll have to look exactly see where that has come from. But you know what I'd like to say is yes it is and we know that money is coming in but I can't swear to that right now. You give me one minute. I have a reference number. I didn't bring my spreadsheet. Page one, thirty, five, the page. page 133. And get to this quick as I thought. H-136. Thank you. You just saved everyone a good bit of time. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I will do quite honestly, Mr. Foster, I'll have to get back to you on that to verify if that money is guaranteed or if it is some of the money that we'll be going away. Okay. Thank you. I just want to jump in there and Mr. Cunningham will turn to you in a moment. The importance of North Bax for our community's tax space has been discussed repeatedly in multiple environments and retreats with City Council and looking at Fairfax Boulevard the master plan in planning for a multiple use environment for the Fairfax Boulevard. It is very, very important that we try to leverage any opportunity to secure any opportunity for funding there to move this along. The business community has been looking for movement for years there. I think, frankly, so have many informed residents in the city and staff as well. It could be as a growing level of frustration, the longer this takes. I want to step back again to the opportunity of the stimulus. My understanding of the stimulus is that they're looking for both capital projects that will impact on the community, but more importantly also increase the labor force in the communities as well. And I'm hearing from the departments how stretched our talented city staff is right now. I suggest and respectfully submit to our city manager at staff that we should be looking also at proposals that are in fact human resource specific to build on the talents and gifts of our community at the same time impacting infrastructure. And what I'm my understanding of the stimulus is that is the intent, ultimately impact on tax base, but also to get the marketplace moving through employment and investment in the community. And so let's not just look at projects, but look at the human resource as well. Mr. Cutunningham. Piggy bagging on that. Looking at page 14 of your brief, as you noted on page 14, we have deferred a little over $800,000 in current year projects that we're not funding. When I look at the rest of the material you've given us, we're talking about a $1.2 million shortfall for the current year that we're still having to work out of the budget, which means that that $800,000 is probably not going to come back for projects out of the current year's budget if I understand it. Typically in the past, when we've looked at the CIP, we've had recommendations for something in the neighborhood of $2.5 million worth of CIP projects that have been recommended to City Council. And I understand that in past years where there have been surpluses, we have been able to accelerate some projects and do them and push, pull them up, which has kept our CIP vital for a long time. At this point, we're talking about 800,000 from the current year being pushed back. We've got about $2.5 million worth of projects in the general fund that are currently being recommended. As we've heard from staff tonight, all of these are essentially safety-related or critical projects. They've been, they've been parodoned already so that there are no general products for improvement left in our current CIP. Next year with a $12 plus million shortfall that's being projected at this time. I would wonder how we recapture the 800,000 from last year, whether we can fund any of the two and a half million dollars of the central projects that we're talking about in the current budget, or whether the 100% of it needs to be deferred, and then we still have over $10 million to find in making the rest of the city operate. We seem from what I'm observing to have a pretty tight grip on finances at this point and not much is going to escape it. So if you have insight on who and how we should approach recommendations for this or we may be able to cure some of this project or problem they would be appreciated. Those are very good points and unfortunately the $800,000 that has been deferred will have to remain deferred in some of those you know longer than we would like. But in the past, as you pointed out, we had handled some of our CIP as we call pre-funding, because we have had in the past excess revenues in which we would actually, the council would actually approve some CIP projects the year before, because we did have excess revenues, and we were able to keep down that cost for the upcoming budget year. And unfortunately we're not in that position this year so we will not be pre-funding any of our CFP items. And of course we're doing quite the opposite where we're actually deferring several projects. It will be a challenge and it's going to be quite a challenge that the council will have to deal critical to our infrastructure and maintaining our infrastructure. There's not a lot of items that are nice to have. Most of these are items that we must have and we did try to cut it down to the bear and necessities and go through this process. I think with the planning commission, I think probably the most important thing that the planning commission or vice-the-planning commission or recommendation that planning commission can come up with is really looking at these projects and determining if there's any projects that may, that perhaps you do not feel are as critical as some others in recommending, I don't think, because of the large deficit that we're dealing with, you really won't be able to deal with a specific number to cut the CIP down to a specific number, but because it's going to be several months before we work our way through this. But I think the Council and the Budget Committee and the staff would like to get the recommendation on which projects, perhaps are not as critical as others, which projects the Planning Commission considers to be absolutely critical, and which projects perhaps could be deferred for a period of time. And of course, overall are there any projects that are just not appropriate that perhaps don't fit in with the comprehensive plan or the council guidelines. And I think that's the general guidance that the council would like to receive in the staff and of course the budget committee also. But unfortunately, you don't have a large menu of projects in front of you this year and hopefully, and probably unfortunately, probably not next year either, but hopefully in the future, it'll probably be a little more challenging from your standpoint where you can really, you know, determine from your perspective what are the critical projects to the city. In my viewpoint, I think we have really paired it down quite a bit where they can't, and I can't say can't, but because, you know, when you only have so much money, you do have to fit within that budget. But I think that is really going to be getting to this point. Those are going to be tough decisions that the council ultimately will have to come up with. Because of course part of the budget will, and I shouldn't say of course, most likely I assume that part of the budget problem will be resolved with an increase in the real estate tax rate as part of our budget problem is caused by a decrease in the assessment. But without rambling on too much further, I think that's what we'd be looking to the Planning Commission for at this time is really number one, the glaring items that should come or go or be included. Mr. Hutchins, that's actually a very good kickoff point for our discussion after the presentations. Are there any more questions for the public work staff? Yes, Mr. Landis? Just real quick, what is the difference between a leaf truck and a brush truck? What are their life expectancies? How much do they cost? The leaf truck is the vacuum truck with the hose that sucks up the leaves and compacts them. The brush truck is closer to a trash truck where they have a claw. They pick up the brush, they put it in the the truss and it kind of crushes them. They cost around $220,000 each. Same thing with the trash truck costs about the same. The average lifespan of these vehicles is approximately 10 years. The ones that we have are about 20 years old. And we keep fixing them, but it gets to a point where, when in a corrosion gets to a point where they almost become unsafe. And we've delayed these for a couple years years, and it's probably our highest priority. Mr. Boucher. Mr. Robinson, Mr. Foster and other questions. Great, thank you very much. Happy holiday. Ms. Conlaysa, would there any request from the public to speak this evening? No, we don't have any request. Okay, is there anyone in the audience who would like to speak to anything with regard to the CIP budget this evening? No, we don't have any requests. Okay. Is there anyone in the audience who would like to speak to anything with regard to the CIP budget this evening? Please. Speaking of that last issue, Gordon Riggle, for a cottage. The branch, the big truck, the picked up the branches. We find in the neighborhood, there are a lot of people with drought last year or last two years. We're having a lot of dead trees. So a lot of trees are starting to come down. It takes about three years. And a lot of trees are coming down. I find them out because I collect firewood, I have a lot of these culpepper guys come around and they want to dump the wood at my yard because I burn it. But they leave all the branches for the city all the way. Now really it's the responsibility of the landowner to pay that guy to hold away, but they make a deal. So I would say that nothing needs to be some method to encourage the homeowners to have that hall the way, rather than leaving it for the city. And since the service is so grand, I would suggest alternating one week on, one week off. And if the trash, if those branches are out there for two weeks, then the neighbors start to recognize that they shouldn't be out there. It may mean that we have the same volume to pick up every second week that we'd have once a week. But with the budget, of course, the cost of diesel has gone down. But I would think there's some manipulation there, Catch the attention of the whole world. Right, thank you very much. This has been a very informative discussion, and I want to thank Ms. Cutlesa, as well as Mr. Hodgkin's for shepherding us through this dialogue this evening. There is no question a very serious issue as far as limited resources, the tax base, and our vision versus the reality. I'd like to open a dialogue with the members, my fellow commissioners, but I want to connect with an idea or suggestion I made during the work session. And that is, frankly, it is a very healthy discussion that segues very nicely to the comprehensive plan and our thinking into the future. Because clearly it's a short list of immediate priorities under the CIP rather than a wishlist. Even when the economy was strong, it was still a very difficult process to make recommendations to the City Council for their deliberation. I'm actually very appreciative that we have a budget committee in place working with all of us and the city residents to make recommendations as well in a tight fiscal year. That was a quite a wise decision. But if we also could keep in mind as we move into this discussion of the CIP and what our recommendations will be, just keep in mind the comprehensive plan and thoughts that maybe that we cannot act on right now that could be included in that broader discussion. Mr. Foster, let me turn to you first. Per thoughts? Well, I'm ahead and moved on to the comprehensive plan discussion. I was thinking more about the effort that it's going to take, try to prioritize this list. Well, that's not something the Planning Commission has ever undertaken before. But I think it's an interesting exercise. We've gotten some very good thoughts from the department heads. It may be that it becomes a discussion document. And I guess my initial thought is that we start taking projects and listing them and accumulating a total or running total. So that we get to a point where council can say this is what we've got to spend and here's where that amount is and these projects are going to be on the list and the projects that require an expenditure above that are not going to make the cut. And I guess as a discipline we've got to take the 804,000 and say that's kind of gone forever. And we're starting fresh and we can't really go back and recapture because the 12 million two, 12 million three forecast for the deficit for next year is followed by three or four years of nine million dollar deficits in long-term forecasts. So this is not a problem that we're going to get through in 12 to 18 months. This is going to be with us for a while. I think the subject that Ms. Robinson brought up and the chairman has discussed about this stimulus package. I would think that the folks in Richmond would be all over that for Northern Virginia and Hampton Roads and it may become a proxy for the transportation legislation that's had so much trouble in the Commonwealth. You know, we're, I don't want to get off into the 12350 V. nightmare that we've been going through and still lingers. But I think this is a good opportunity for us to impose some discipline on our thinking and get away from what we emotionally feel, what we subjectively would like to see versus what we really need to do to make the city run as best we can under very tight fiscal constraints. I mean, it's of no value for us to buy a new police cruiser if the road's full of bottles. And the useful life of that cruiser is shortened from eight years to two and a half weeks. I mean, I'm being a little extreme here. But I mean, we've got to have the roads. extreme here, but I mean we've got to have the roads. As a starting point and I don't know, it's just it's going to be interesting to get into that whole dynamic discussion of what's the number one priority and what's one A and one B because I don't like we're going to have any twos. It's going to be one through Z, A through Z. Mr. Cunningham? As I had indicated last week and that I'm looking at it and trying to look at priorities, and I've heard it discussed by the various department heads. Changes are being made with staff. by the various department heads. Changes are being made with staff. They recognize they have to do more with less. Many of the contract functions that have provided service in the past have been eliminated. The workloads have been adjusted within the existing staffs. And I guess the thoughts I would have would be that, as I just said, there's no room for any CIP projects with a deficit this big. Therefore, we've got to look at how do you get the most bang for the buck for those CIP projects that can be done. And there are some CIP projects which can be done internally because they involve labor in that by staff so that those those I think should be given priority. If staff can do the work and we're only providing materials and we're getting a better infrastructure and they're able to help solve those problems, I think that should be one of our priorities. So that we're trying to, I know we're putting a greater workload on staff in a time of stress, but I Anything that's going to help improve the tax base or improve economic viability as we move ahead need to be looked at more closely and perhaps given priority over some other things. We need to generate additional revenue and our preferred way out of this process is to generate enough revenue to pay for the things we need not go in and slash all of the things that we don't need to get down to the revenue we have available so that I know there's tremendous pressure to do that. So our second priority I think should be to increase I mean to to recommend items that have an economic benefit and then thirdly I I think should be to increase, I mean, to recommend items that have an economic benefit. And then thirdly, I think when even as I look at the rest, we're talking about safety issues primarily or essential functions for all of the rest of these items. There were no fluff items that I observed. The department had talking about needing so that we're going to have to defer the remainder to the maximum extent possible. And those making judgment calls that can be very subjective. If you delay replacing a bridge for a year and that bridge deteriorates to become unusable, you will find out very quickly it's essential when all of the people depend on that bridge begin trupping to your door. So some of those still are going to fall into the area of necessity where you're looking at continuing to delay some items hoping to get one more year out of them. But I think that was the pressure back on to trying to do those actions that restore our revenue sources, generate economic input and focusing on those for the next couple of years while we're doing the essential cutting that must be done to keep the budget balanced. So those would be the three things I would look at. Paul, I think your three points're very well stated. Thank you. Mr. Buttichelli. What I see is what Mr. Cunningham talked about, and that's safety. Safety first for everybody in the city. And I'm sort of concerned about first responders in the city and what's going on. And I think we have to take a long look at not necessarily if I need a new cruiser, but if I can really talk to Fairfax County, I can talk to the police department. I can talk to all the first responders. I think that is essential because of the situation we're in or a wide here. So that's what I would look at. All the safety issues first. I agree with Mr. Kingham that we have to look at those projects to congenery revenue. I think that's essential to this budget year. Thank you. Mr. Landos. I would just add that one thing that might, that in my opinion would generate generate revenue and would help us would be the livability of the city and having new people move into the city, having the city have a high quality of life and a good reputation would be a priority as well. It was Robinson. Mr. Hatchkins, I had a question, I was going to ask it earlier, but we all agree to wait until the end. Earlier in your presentation, you indicated in this kind of piggyback, Mr. Cunningham just said that we have just diminished sales tax revenue. In your best opinion, would you think that's because people are tightening their belts? Or as I drive to the city, I notice a wealth of empty, it seems like every shopping center is losing a new business every day. Would you say it's a fair combination of these empty businesses and people tightening their belt, or does one seem to be tipping the scale more than the other? Because again, if we're not generating the business revenue, is there something we can be doing? And I guess I think we probably all pretty much agree if we're not at the bare bones level, we're as close to it as we're going to get as far as what we can cut and cross that line between what's essential and as you said, what's fluff? So once we've done, once we've cut everything that we possibly can cut, there are still going to be realistic needs out there. And is there money, as Mr. Cunningham suggests, is there money better spent encouraging businesses to come here, bringing in a Harris-Tedar, bringing in some more buildings to fill up picket square or picket shopping center and all the places that seem to just be closing, fill out courthouse plaza, bringing in that revenue as something that maybe right now helps to bring down that 12 million in the future. And the subsequent 9 million years that are slated to follow. Well, those are very good points. And I think it really is tightening on the belt on two sides. It's the individuals, the residents that are not going out and spending as much as they have before for a number of reasons. One is just because what they read in the papers too is people have lost their jobs. People are not getting raises or are furloughs and there's the fear of that. We've had over 84 closures in the city and we don't have the problem that a lot of jurisdictions have, but that's compared to two, two years ago. So there is on the consumer side, there definitely is a tightening of the belt. Now also on the business side, there's a tightening of the belt also. I do know it's become more difficult to actually lease out or sell some of these office condos and retail spaces because a lot of businesses are pulling back because of the uncertain future and the risk and also knowing the economy is on the down turns so it's not time to expand for a lot of businesses. So I think that you get in this situation, it's some people have described it as a perfect storm, in which it's created a problem from both sides. And your question is there's something that we can do. I think there is, I do know, especially with the downtown, not that we don't promote the entire city, but with the new and our old town village area and in that, not just old town village, but in that area, there has been a lot of effort in bringing customers downtown to make it a destination for people, even in this difficult times, and I think there has been some success with that. But of course, we have an economic development department that continues to work to bring businesses in, and we're hoping to see more of the best buys come in and the Harris teeters and to fill these spaces. But we're not the only ones that are seeing vacancies in our retail and commercial space. So it's a challenging time and it does come from both ends. Mr. Foster? I think one of the points it needs to be made here, in looking at the information we've seen in the budget committee, and I'll ask Mr. Hodgkin, Mr. Leight, to jump in if I say something incorrect. When we look at a $12.3 million deficit, we can't resolve that issue by looking at the total budget. This is a point that the screen field made when we had a discussion of the budget in the work session. Three or four weeks ago now, or maybe it was just two, but anyway, time flies. We have to take that 12.3 million out of the discretionary budget. And when you take a total budget and you knock down the debt service, principal and interest for open spaces, for schools, for downtown work, or for the recreational fields, that sort of thing. When you knock down the contract with the county for public education, We have some other contractual obligations that we have to meet. Then you're you're down to about 55 million and of that 55 million, 38 or 39 million of it is staff compensation and benefits. So it leaves you 17 million to run the city. Operational expenses travel. I guess fuel is in that component. Now all the current expenses of the city are in that 17 million. So you've got to figure out where you're going to find that 12.3 or you're going to try to basically shut the city down and have $5 million left over which is not palatable. Are you going to have to reduce staff through attrition to get that number down? It's going to be a combination of things, but we don't have a very large number to work with to find the 12.3 million. It just kind of adds to the magnitude of the seriousness of the problem. And that's those are very good points. And a lot of people miss that because they see the $500 million shortfall for Fairfax County, for example, and you look at a 12 million or so for Fairfax City, but percentage wise, it's very significant. And we don't have the flexibility that some of the larger jurisdictions have. The vacancy, a lot of jurisdictions can save in personnel because they'll just, won't fill vacancies, but they always plan for vacancies because their departments are so large. R's aren't, we don't plan for that. When we plan for it, we absolutely do budget and that's already taken out of the budget. So those are very good points for Mr. Foster. And there are definitely, these are very serious global issues that I'm sure many of you caught the piece on NPR that this evening they were reporting. The City of Chicago, for example, has all of their parking meters. They've sold off the rights to them for $75 million. Excuse me, for some fee or for 75 years, to bring short-term cash into the city coffers. There are also municipalities that are looking into selling their airports now to meet short-term goals. And then the debate, of course, is that really wise or not, because they're just simply short-term solutions. They're not getting at the very issues we're speaking about here. Clearly we are in a difficult time right now. We're relying on the tax base and that includes both residential property and commercial business in the city. And tough decisions lie ahead. Our focus of course right now is the capital improvement budget and bring us back to that discussion. I would like to get folks' thoughts about how we should continue with this hearing, if we should keep it open into the coming year with the date of closure in January. What is the pleasure of the Commission this evening? I think just to kick it off, at the very minimum, we need to continue this discussion into the new year. We've talked about a $12.3 million deficit, but we made those estimates month ago, month and a half ago. And a lot has happened since then, and none of which is positive. So 12.3 may not be where we are today. So we need some time to come to grips with what the real numbers are, what the seriousness of our situation is going to be in pre-seriesness of our situation. So I don't think we should try to go from here tonight and do it. The second thing it comes to mind is the outreach policy that we passed to a year ago, year and a half ago. I appreciate Mr. Rigel being here, although he was here to speak on the Marriott issue. But the trade-off here is if the residents of this city want expenditures in a certain area, we need to hear what that is. But we also need to hear a very clear statement of what they want, whose ox is going to be gourd, I guess, because it's a sum zero situation. You can't spend it in one sector without taking it from another. And that's the real difficulty of this process. We can't say we can spend a little here and spend a little there. When you're at this point in fiscal management, if you spend it here, you've got to take it from... you've got to create it by taking it from some other function of the government. And that's what we need. We need to hear those points of view as painful as they are. Because in the final analysis we're paying the bills as citizens as taxpayers. And we need to find a way to reach out to the residents and hear from them to the extent that we can. Sir Robinson. I would like to concur with what Mr. Foster has just said. I think if for nothing else the public outreach part is critical. But I think over the next month or so there's going to be more information on the table that we can make the best informed decision. We might get those criteria for the stimulus package. We might have some new businesses come on board. We might get even more horrific news. I think if we were to try to make a decision tonight, we would be making an ill informed decision without the best possible resources in front of us and would put ourselves in a more precarious position going forward from everything, from to the master plan, to the budget. You can't make a decision with this many unknowns still out there. So I wholeheartedly agree with this. Credit Swiss released a new economic indicator report actually this morning. And it's actually a must read for anyone in public planning right now, looking at both the residential market and the commercial marketplace and the indicators actually softened up dramatically since their last report just a few months ago. Mr. Landis, your thoughts? I would certainly agree. I would just ask what the impact will be on the calendar and how much time we do indeed have. Yes, let's turn. Ms. Kudalesa, what is our schedule for January? Your next meeting is January 12th, and then you have a meeting there after your next meeting has several factors on it. You have elections. So, you know, the makeup of your board officers may change. We were scheduled originally at that meeting to do a full resolution to amend the comprehensive plan based on all that you've gone through over the last maybe half a year. I'll be input that you've got. Expecting a zoning text to amendment on enforcement penalties. You have your annual report on planning commission activities as well that needs to go forward at that meeting. Those are the predominant things that we have scheduled for the very next meeting. And what is the date for the subsequent meeting after the 12th? The 26th. 26th. Okay. Do we have anything on that calendar yet? with the subsequent meeting after the 12th? The 26th. The 26th, okay. Do we have anything on that calendar yet? Update. We do have some comprehensive, you know, the beginning of some comprehensive plan, activities I don't have that with me, however. Okay, Mr. Mucho. Well, is it possible to spend the 12th on a to use the opportunity on the 26th to wrap up. And in fact, if there's anyone on the 26th, who would like to briefly testify to use that opportunity as well, this is probably the most serious fiscal crisis during my residency in the city that I have seen. And every opportunity that we could use to get public input into the planning process, I think, would be helpful. So I just like to float that as a trial balloon. Please feel free to comment on it. The other thing I have is I'm still not sure what's in the budget, what's not in the budget. Can we get a reading on that? Can we get an idea of what the budget committee put together that we have to work with? Now we saw the timeline earlier and it's clear really the budget process continues through the summer. So Mr. Foster or in turn Mr. Hodgkin's what can you share with us? If I could start what you have right now is an estimate that we have in the CIP is what the budget committee has put together. But as Mr. Foster pointed out, there has been, sometimes it's past since this has been put out and things are changing. They have changed and the budget committee will be meeting next week and there will be an update most likely at that point. And what I was going to suggest is obviously Mr. Foster being on the budget committee when that information becomes available to the budget committee or finalized by the budget committee. That's something that Mr. Foster could bring forward to the planning commission. But right now what the planning commission has is the same information that budget information as that anyone else has at this time. Mr. Foster. Yes. Just to address this time schedule, the city manager is making the presentation to Council and may the third of the operational budget of the... Or the state... March third, I'm sorry, what does that say? May. It was an M. I'm sorry. And it would seem to me that we need to go as late as possible for our recommendation to get as much information as we can. That if we wrap up in late January or even early February, we're going to be in a lot better position, because the realistic situation with the holidays within the next couple of weeks things are going to begin to shut down and they're not going to To come back until after the first year. We're not going to have a heck of a lot more information On January the 12th and we do right now That's my perception and and I would say that we you know Maybe we recess until the 26th or and if we're not happy then then we recess again until a date in February But just keep the process going until we're comfortable with the information we have and we're comfortable with the recommendation that we're making that it's at least it's a reasonable starting point for council's discussion Mr. Kennedy. Following with what Mr. Foster has to say, and looking at the documents we've been given, if you look at the difference between 2009 and 2010 in revenues forecasting about a 5.5% drop in total revenues, and there are a number of columns as we discussed at our work session that are tied in with that. Two of those show a decrease in the rest show essentially a small increase. So I believe we probably will have some better information after the first of the year in terms of confidence in those or best confidence at that time. But there's room for change between now and then. When we look at expenditures, we're looking at going from 2009 to 2010 and estimating something in the neighborhood of a 5% increase in spending. So with a 5.5% decrease in money coming in and a 5% increase in spending, there's obviously something that the budget committee is working on and 7.5% decrease in money coming in and a 5% increase in spending. There's obviously something that the budget committee is working on and trying to reconcile those two. Because we're talking $12 million and it's essentially 6 million each way, 6 million less revenue, 6 million more going out the door. And that's what we're trying to reconcile. So my sense would be that postponing the public hearing or deferring the public hearing for completion on the 26th of January leaves the opportunity to defer it again, but that gives us a time frame for staff to do some work in for Mr. Hutchins perhaps to come back and give us some additional insight on how comfortable or uncomfortable we should be with going numbers, numbers going forward at that time. In making a recommendation because right now I'm not sure what recommendation I could make except to, you know, bar the door on CIP in the limited area that we have to work with for discretionary spending. So I think I would be more comfortable if we could lay it to the end of January for that person left. Would you like to make that in the form of a motion? Yes, I'm sorry. Could I just give a little input from the staff side? Because there actually is some pressure points on staff to get the proposed budget completed for presentation on March 3rd. And they concern with any recommendation that may be coming out after January, depending on when that comes out. Because of the time, the process that we have to go through when actually putting that proposed budget together, if that recommendation comes out too late, it may come out too late to be considered as part of the proposed budget. And I just want to point a commission to take that into consideration when deliberating and determining when a recommendation should come out. I'd like to suggest that on the 14the at 7 p.m. with a work session around this issue so we can have some discussion about the status of the budget and where we are with the CIP. But again, I was kind of able to make it to make motion. Mr. Chairman. planning commission to further making its recommendation on the proposed capital improvement program for fiscal year 2009-2010 to 2013-2014 and let me ask a question. I thought we were in 2009-2010 now. We're talking about the 2008-2010 now. No, okay. So 2009, 2010 to 2013, 2014 to a date certain of January 26th 2009 with and the public hearing will remain open for additional comment until that date certain. Is there a second? Could I suggest a change? Go ahead, Mr. Foster. Instead of deferring the decision in January 26, could we just recess the public hearing? Because we really didn't hear from the public. And keep the public hearing open and then make our decision. That's kind of less than what I've heard. I thought that's did. We're recessing the public hearing, which says the public hearing remains open. Well, you didn't say recess. You said defer the decision. Well, you would want to continue the public hearing as opposed to resuppose to resupply. So let's use that. And the public hearing will remain open for additional comment until that date. Certain second. Good. Any discussion about the motion? Let's cut a listen. Could I just offer a couple of sort of philosophical observations on the capital improvement program in the process if I could during this? Well will it influence the vote now? Well I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I traditional planning capital improvement program. It was originally envisioned and originally sent down to the planning commission for discussion and weighing against the comprehensive plan because it was generally a growth management tool. And it was all right, let's look at the comprehensive plan and where are we gonna need new schools and where are we gonna need new roads and where are we gonna extend our water and sewer. And so the Commonwealth said, look, planning commissions, look at this and where they're proposing to put all these new facilities, these are the comprehensive plan, and make sure that those are in line. And then not planning to extend sewers where we didn't plan growth. Well, here in the city, it's completely different. We're really not adding schools. We're really not adding schools. We're really not adding water and sewer. We're really not doing those growth things. It's turned into predominantly and sort of an equipment, purchase and replacement and maintenance activity document, which while critical, most of those activities, I think that this body can reasonably say are consistent with the comprehensive plan goals for maintaining our facilities. The, that being said, the capital improvement program is not a budgeting process and is not necessarily as concerned with the revenues and expenditures in their changing nature. Those decisions and determinations are generally left to the council and to budget committees to sort of grapple with. What this body is asked to do is they are these things that are being proposed, whether there are many of them or few, consistent with the comprehensive plan, and to do what I think Mr. Cunningham really framed up very well earlier for us, which is to go to the Council and say, okay, you've got this list of items. Within your budgeting process, we believe it's a planning commission to maintain good consistency with the comp plan and in the interest of the public welfare, you should first consider, for example, those things that are predominantly funding materials and dealing with existing staff. We believe that you should then really look at things that are going to improve the tax base and help improve our revenues and then look at those safety issues. And in my mind, that is the main purview of this committee, opposed to getting into too many of the nitty-gritty. So I would encourage you to look at it from that perspective and offering that guidance further to the council and not extend the process too far from what's going to have to be particularly this year a real gnarling of the budget before you get to the budget. That's it. This is Johnston. We'll look for that word for word in the minutes of this meeting so that we can start our discussion with that guidance. Thank you. Yes, Ms. Landis. Just asking again. Is forwarding a recommendation on the 26th going to provide staff with enough time for our recommendation to be considered? I think it will. I think the sooner the better for staff, because as Ms. Connellessa had pointed out, that sort of guidance that she just gave an example to could be taken into consideration when staff looks at the $2.5 million that they're truly needs to be some cuts Then we know in general where the planning commission stands and we can take that into consideration Knowing at that time will where we are going to be balancing the operating costs the the CIP, and the revenues that are coming in, the potential recommended tax hikes or increases. That will give us, I think, the direction that we're really looking for. Again, as we stated in the presentation, we're not looking for really specific recommendations relating to specific projects, unless there are projects that do not meet the comprehensive plan or that the Plenty Commission feels should not be considered. But more general guidance as to how to consider the capital projects when we're looking at our overall budgeting process. And but the answer your question, I think if we did receive it in January, we're going to be well into the process. We may have to restart some things. So the sooner the better. I'd be very nervous about anything later than that date. At that point, we may have a hard time changing the budget that we put together at that time. All right. What if we could call the question? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Abstentions? Passes unanimously. I just want to conclude our discussion on this agenda item by stating I actually think it's an amazing accomplishment what the city has done with the schools, with the parks, with regard to city hall, with regard to the new police department. Frankly, we live in a city that is governed with very pragmatic vision in a frugal way. And we relied on bonds and debt financing to minimize the long-term operational costs to the city to have us a set cost which we could anticipate. And now as we get to a more economic downturn in the cycle, we still have a lot to look at during these wonderful rosy years. And hopefully it sets the stage for some good governance in the more difficult years ahead. So again, this is a great city to live in, even in difficult times. We have so much to be proud of and to be thankful for Moving head to the staff report Just briefly I just want to confirm that what we're looking at on January 12th is a meeting at 7 p.m We'll need to advertise that because it's a different time Do you want to hold the elections that meeting? I think we should. That's been our tradition, yes. Okay, and then we'll follow that up with your work session. On January 26th, then we'll meet at the regular time at 730 and have the public hearing continuation on this item at that meeting. Also, I think we can put in a couple of these other items thereafter. You know, after the public hearing, perhaps the annual report to the City Council and your resolution to go forward and amend the comp plan. May also have to get the zoning text amendment at that time. And I have that's my report. Any questions? Yes. What do we want to meet at seven o'clock? That's going to be a long recession. Well, I think it's important for us to have a brief check-in on the state of where we are with the CIP discussion. I think it will be helpful for us for the work session first. Yes, exactly. From seven, it can be brief, but I think we need to have it, especially if there's new information from staff or the budget committee. And if not, it will be brief and we move on to our regular scheduled program. So seven then for the 20th. Seven, yes. For both states. Oh, I was, oh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood. What is everyone's feeling about both states? I think it's fine. I think we have big agendas, so let's just do it. Seven o'clock for both. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Moving on to commission comments. Mr. Comments, any comments this evening? Starting on the right. Just like the wish everyone happy holiday. Mm-hmm. That's it. Very good. The year 5 is by quickly and we'll wish everyone happy holidays. But we'll add one additional comment and perhaps question for staff. I got two emails today from Ms. Barrell and they recovered one of our annual requirement which is to report financial disclosure and economic interests and this is the first year I've gotten them as email notifications with attachments so that I could print off the sheets, fill them in and return them, and they're due by January 15th for the rest of my new colleagues in that. In the past, we've gotten them in the mail in a hard copy to fill in and return. And my question would be, will we be getting a hard copy this year? Or is the expectation that this is the only notification we will get? And I should proceed to my printer and print it because that will be the copy I'll need to file. And I can check on that for you. I have quite honestly, I've been in meetings most of the day, so I had not actually read that email. So if you don't mind, we will get back to you on that. I appreciate that very much. If it's a city cost-cutting measure and they're just giving it savings out of the city's budget, perhaps for this action, I'd be happy to print it. I think it's part of going green. It was Robinson. part of going green. It was Robinson. I'd like to wish everyone obviously happy holidays and congratulate the city on bringing back first night airfax on the 31st and for all you people out in TV lead I know they're looking for volunteers so you can contact Joe Ormisher with the city you can find her on the website so happy holidays be safe and we'll see in 2009. Mr. Foster, I was told earlier that this period of time in the annual calendar when the bull season starts and I was not allowed to make any comments tonight. So I won't but Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. It's been a good year. It has. I'd like to congratulate two of my colleagues. The City Council has reappointed Mr. Foster, as well as Mr. Landis, two new terms on the planning commission. Congratulations to both of you. And it has been my distinct honor to work with you as colleagues and also to chair the commission. And I look forward to a wonderful transition in January. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and a great new year to everyone. We're adjourned. Moving along at all, moving along Moving along Moving along Moving along I'm Governor Tim Cain. Unexpected disasters can happen at any time with little or no warning. Act now to get ready Virginia. Learn how your family can get an emergency kit, make a plan, and stay informed. Visit ReadyVirginia.gov. Till a graph cable they sing down the highway and travel each band in the world Before we in this romantic setting My hypnotized body for love He is so murderous Wailing of a middle-life Moonlight in room You might even remember You and I, and you lying in the moon Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, in the night, Ah... Ah... I'm dreaming of a white Christmas. Just like the ones I used to know, Where the tree tops glisten and children listen to the air, Slay down in the snow. dream of a wise Christmas, all your Christmas as be wise. Just hit those slave bells jingling, ring jing jingling too. Come on, it's lovely weather for us, lay right together with you. Outside the snow it's falling and friends are calling you. Come on, it's lovely weather for us sleigh ride together with you. Kitty, I, Kitty, I, Kitty, I, let's go. Let's look at the show. We're riding in a wonderland of snow. Come on, horses. Kitty, I, Kitty, I, Kitty, I, it's grand. Just holding it. We're gliding along with the song of a wintery fairyland. Our cheeks are nice and rosy and com' big cozy, always. We're snuggled up together like the birds of a feather would be. Let's take that road before us and sing a chorus or two. Come on, it's lovely weather for us. Lay right together with you. Come on! There's a birthday party at the home of farmer grave That'll be the birthday ending of a birthday We'll be singing the song we love to sing without a single star At the fireplace while we watch the chestnuts pop Pop pop pop, there's a happy feeling Nothing in the world can buy When they pass around the coffee and the fun Can buy it'll nearly be like a picture Played by four ear and eyes These wonderful things are the things We should pray and fight for fear and eyes. These wonderful things are the things we remember of through our lives. Just hear those slave bells jingling, ring tinkling true. Hey, come on, it's lovely weather for a slave ride together with you. Outside the snow it's falling and friends are calling you. You, come on, it's lovely weather for a slayer ride together with you. Come on, baby, take a slayer ride with me. I'm going to play a little bit more. Look at here a jack, jumpin' down the track, got a cross. Gorgi, Gorgi, sign a cross. The time every prince will stay. Well, the lives of him, the mob, like the hermit, and the king. You never had a hand cut. That was Gorgi's name. He's the Gorgi, Gorgi, sign a cross. Gorgi, Gorgi, sign a cross. Gorgi, Gorgi, sign a cross. Go give or get signed or brought Go give or get signed or go get all your blues away Well it's wrong, it's wrong, it's wrong, Mr. Satter Jump, jump, jump Mr. Satter will blow I don't care if it's for your treat, no candy for your salt, when it stops the food I'm gonna get you half put your best dress on. We're really gonna jump a joy on the Christmas month. The bogey bogey's out of the park. The bogey bogey's out of the park, Boky boogie out of the park, Boky boogie out of the park, Boky out of your food way, Hell is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, Miss Santa, don't, don't, don't I'm a little bit more than you do With the bogey, more than Santa, more bogey I lose the way You got the bogey Oh my man I'm not gonna let you go, I'm not gonna let you go, I'm not gonna let you go, I'm not gonna let you go, I'm not gonna let you go, I'm not gonna let you go, I'm not gonna let you go, I'm not gonna let you go, I'm oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, cut, cut, cute buttoned nose Got two eyes made out of coal Frosty the snowman Is a fairy tale they say He was made a snow but all the girls know But he came to life one day Woo! Must've been so magic in That whole shit had we fun. When we placed it on his head Chai, he began to dance around And I've frosted the stormy Ooh, was the ladders he could be And all the girls said he could laugh and play Just the same as you and me A frosty snowman, all knew the sun was hot back then He said girls, let me run, come on, let's pass on to another four-by-mail for later. I let us down the streets of town, right to that traffic cup. You'll rip off one moment, say, when all the girls just yelled, ooh, across this mountain, fall steep, snowman, how do you carry on this way? But it will be fine, but ladies, don't you cry. I'll be back to get you something. Oh, oh, mercy. Oh, oh, nice! What should I say, Miss? Both cool. I'm not the one that did things, I'm not the one who put up for better things So, the one who did things, Who lost things, oh, so good, so good, so good, so good, so cool. Oh, he let us down the streets of town, back to the traffic car. He only paused one moment when all the girls are whoos Crossed in my snowman, how the heart will only hold its voice But it will follow, send me the touch you've crossed in back Oh, baby, I'll be back, oh, baby, I'll be back someday. Gonna get you, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, music I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go back to the old town. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. music Yeah. music I'm going to play the piano. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to have a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little to play a the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the The End Give me an oldfashioned Christmas, And old-fashioned Christmas, Family faces, Wide open spaces, Covered with snow. Right now my mom's There in the kitchen, basting the Christmas bird. You'll have to take my world, you can't find that at the automat. An old fashioned fireplace, give me an old fashioned fireplace. My heart remembers, smoldering embers, one of your blows. I trade that old man hat in skyline, shimmering steel and chrome, For one old fashioned Christmas back home. At old fashioned Christmas give me an old fashioned Christmas. Family, face and white open space and other soul. Right now my mom's there in the kitchen, basting the Christmas bird. You'll have to take my world. You can't find that at the me in old fashioned fireplace. My heart remembers small and embers warmly or gloom. I trade the home and had in skyline the shimmering steam and chrome, For one old fashioned Christmas back home. I'm going to do it. I'm going to go to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to do it. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to do it. I'm going to go to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to do it. All I want for Christmas is my two front teeth, my two front teeth, my two front teeth. Gee, if I could only have my two front teeth, then I could wish you Merry Christmas. It seems so long since I could say, Sister, sister, they said monophanzo. And so, I showed you how happy I'd be If I could only win so All I want for Christmas is my two front teeth My two front teeth, my two front teeth Gee, if I could only have my two front teeth Then I could wish you Merry Christmas All I want for Christmas is my two front teeth. Two front teeth, two front teeth. Gee, if I could only have my two front teeth, then I could wish you merry Christmas. It seems so long since I could say, sisters, is it not a pencil? And I could say sisters have a said non-ethesal God show thee how happy I'd be if I could only whistle All I want for Christmas is my... To front teeth, to front teeth, to front DG, if I could only have my true front teeth Then I could wish you Merry Christmas. It seems so long since I could say, Sister Suzy said not a fissure. God showed you how happy I'd be if I could only whistle. So all I want for Christmas is my two front teeth. Two front teeth, my two front teeth my to front teeth See if I could only have a to front teeth Then I could wish you Merry Christmas Christmas! I'm I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not a bad guy. I'm a little bit more I'm a little bit more I'm a little bit more I'm a little bit more I'm a little bit more I'm a little bit more Ha! I'm going to do it. I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not go home. I'm I'm going to play a little bit more. Music All the hills we go, laughing all the way. Fells on by, tells me, making spirits fly. Spirit's light. Oh, what fun it is to sing a sweating song tonight. Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way. Oh, what fun is to ride in a warm horse open sleigh? Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way. Oh, what fun is to ride in a warm horse open sleigh Whoa, jingle, jingle bells, jingle bells Ringing, ding, ding, ding, do that What led little, what for that thought say Lift up a bomb, and let that be by the Oh, I'm the only one who can't go down Jingle bells Jingle all the way Oh, Jingle Jingle Jingle bells, Jingle all the way Jingling, jingle, jingle Jingle all the way Jingle, jingle, jingle, jingle Ding dong dong. Ding dong dong. Ding dong ding dong. Ding dong ding dong. Just nots roasting on an open fire Jack Frost nipping at your door You thy carols, being sung by a choir, and the folks of rest up like asking mose, Miss Utoe helped to make the season bright. The tiny tops with their eyes, Lord, the glow will find it apart. To sleep tonight, cause they know that saddle is on your way he's loaded lots of toys and goodies on his way give him a little star gonna spy they won't turn away, reindeer, they'll know how to tie. And so I'm offering the simple grace, one kiss from one to latitude. Want a line it to you And all Though it's been said Many times Many ways Merry Christmas Merry Christmas to you Merry Christmas to you Merry, Merry, Merry Merry Christmas to you Hmm Just got roasted on an open fire, Jack Frost did them to you know You die, carols being sung by choir, hope's all messed up like a sm, we moves keep on the whole call turn in the suit so, can't big games help to make the season right tiny talks with their eyes all of a load just won't go to sleep tonight They know that center is only a way He's got a hold on a toy as good as always And every mother's child, they are gonna spy. They really wanna see the reindeer and see them fly. So I'm offering a simple face to kids who want a magnitude. And he is from one to mine too. Although it's been said many times, many ways Mary and Mary Christmas to you. Merry Christmas to you. I'm going to go to the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Merry Christmas, baby. baby, you're sharp in, drink me nice. Merry Christmas, baby, show me, drink me nice. Give me a diamond ring for Christmas. Now I'm living in paradise. Oh, and I'm feeling mighty fine, yeah. Got good music on my radio. Oh, oh, oh. Said I'm free, yeah, then mighty fine. Got good music on my radio Well, you know I want his ya baby Why you standing beneath my little toe Oh, show me your Oh, show you right. Play it for me now. I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh I'm gonna credit presents that you see before me Merry Christmas, baby, baby, baby You shall be good to me, yeah Oh, I haven't had a drink this morning, but I'm lit up like a Christmas tree. Oh, oh, oh, yeah. Hey! Oh, the weather outside is playful But the fire so did life And since we've no place to go Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow It doesn't show signs of stopping I brought some corn for my baby And turn the lights and wait down low Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow, let it snow. When we finally kiss goodnight, how I hate going out in the storm. And if you really hold me tight, all the way home I'll be warm. I know my own people, the fire is slowly dying and my dick will still be fine Long as you love me so let it snow, let it snow, let it snow I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to play a little bit more. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it Oh the weather outside is frightful, but the fire's so delightful, since we've no place to go. Let's know, let it snow, let it snow. It doesn't show signs of stopping, and I've brought some corn for popping. Our lights are way down low, but let it snow, let it snow, let it snow when we finally kiss goodnight, how I'll ain't going out in the storm but if you only hold me tight, all the way home I'll be warm the fire is holy dying and my dear we're still good-bye. As long as you love me so let it snow, let it snow, let it snow, let it snow, let it snow, let it snow, let it snow, all on, let it snow. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to play the piano. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be a good guy. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a little bit more serious. I'm not going to be a little bit more serious. I'm not going to be a little bit more serious. I'm not going to be a little bit more serious. I'm not going to be a little bit more serious. I'm not going to be a little bit more serious. I'm not going to be a little bit more serious. I'm not going to be a little bit more serious. I'm not going to be a little bit more serious. I music Just hear those sleigh bells jingling, ring ding dingling, too. Come on, it's lovely where the forest is laid by together with you. Outside the snow is falling and friends are calling you. Come on it's lovely where the forest is saved by together with you. Kitty up, Kitty up, Kitty up, let's go. Let's look at the show. We're riding in a wonderful atmosphere. Kitty up, Kitty up, Kitty up, Kitty up, it's We're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're the sun, we're Let's take that road before us and sing our chorus all too Come on, it's lovely, where the chorus day rides together with you You, there's a birthday party at the home of the farmer's grave It'll be the perfect ending of the perfect day We'll be singing the songs, we love to sing with out of singers stopping At the fireplace where we'll watch the church that's popping Pop pop pop, there's a happy feeling Nothing in this world can bite When they pass around the coffee and the coffee And can bite, it's new even like a big chup and bite From beer and dives These wonderful things are the things we remember all through our time I this wonderful people, I believe we remember all through our time I just came to say bell-chicken and ring-chicken and ring-chicken and ring-chicken Come on, it's lovely when the photos say right together with you Outside this snow-w is falling in front of you Come on, it's lovely, where the boys are I'm excited, snow is falling in front of you Come on, it's lovely, where the boys are I'm excited, snow is falling in front of you You, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, snow, be up, get up, get up, get sprang Just holding your hand, we riding along Make a song of a very fairyland Life's that rosy and comty cosy all we need We snuggles, love's together like to go down a feather with thee Let's take that road before we're been seen, no more is on tune Come on, it's lovely weather for a safe ride together here It's lovely weather for a safe ride together You'll see when it's been seen, let's get it Lovely weather for a safe ride together Lovely weather for a safe ride together I'll be home for Christmas. Just you wait and see. There'll be snow and there's so tall. And this old dog, the presents need the tree. Christmas Eve will find me, where the love light glies. I'll be home for Christmas, if only in my dreams. Christmas Eve will find me where the love light glumes I'll be home for Christmas Only in my dreams, it only in my dreams Take me home, Ralph. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Daddy, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home, come home I'm a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of Story, story, story Story, story, story Story, story, story Story, story, story I feel faster I feel faster I'm ready for the next day. I'm ready for the next day. I'm ready for the next day. I'm ready for the next day. I'm ready for the next day. I'm ready for the next day. I'm ready for the next day. I'm ready for the next day. I'm ready for the next day. I'm ready for the next day. I'm ready for the next day. I'm ready for the next day. I'm a great person I'm a great person I'm a great person I'm gonna go home. I'm very pretty I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a man than a man. I'm a little bit more of a man than a man. I'm a little bit more of a man than a man. I'm a little bit more of a man. I'm a little bit more of a man. I'm a little bit more of a man. I'm a little bit more play a song. I'm going to go to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to be a good boy. I'm not going to have a look at the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the I'm going to have to go. Christmas rush is over now. Let's go far away to a very special place Lovers hide away Somewhere in a quiet spot For the holiday I can't believe I'm Christmas-ing with you And I live in Florida, a cabin just for you. Let me show how much I can and kiss you all my time. Do you know that I love you? And all the things you do I can't believe And Christmas ain't with you We are in the mountains We will build a fire As the North wind blows It's a snowstorm As the nigh wind blows, the snow still falls. As a tree lights glisten, I hope your heart will listen To the words I love you, darling, how I love you In the Lord and twilight sky Honest are so bright I make one a small simple wish To kiss your lips good night Let me take you in my arms And hold you all so tight I can't believe I'm pretty small, say with you. You are here next to me slowly you are waiting watching you my poor heart feels so good We will both celebrate with the love we made. I can't believe I'm Christmas-ing with you. You. I'll be so blue thinking about you On a green Christmas tree On a green Christmas tree If you're new here with me And when those blues Stop falling, then windows move You'll be doing a life with your grace, as a life, but I'll have you, The moon will cross the moon Their corrations of red on a green Christmas tree hold me nothing Street Hold me You're not here with me Christmas That's a dream and never lose Heartache starts hurting You'll be doing alright You lay in the right with your Christmas of light I'm a little bit more I'm a little bit more I'm a little bit more I'm a little bit more I'm a little bit more Thank you. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do it. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to do bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to Snowdreams, snowdreams, winter nights, winter nights Outside at me storm, but your arms will keep me warm By the cozy fireflies Slowly, slowly Silver bright, silver bright Sweet sea of rays Diling what a thrill Taking ski trails down here What a day I've spent with you Snowflakes, snowflakes Falling down, falling down Now I little town, where's the cotton candy go? In a lazy world of white snowry snowy seas, promise me, promise me, This love that we have felt don't ever let it melt Like the snowflakes of a night Now I little town Where the cotton candy gone In a lacy world of white snow dreams Promise me, promise me, This love that we have felt Don't ever let it melt Like the snowflakes over night I'm dreaming of a white Christmas. Just like the ones I used to know Where the tree tops glisten And children listen to hear To hear Slavells in the snow. Oh, I'm dreaming of a white Christmas. Christ's love with every Christmas clock I write May your days be married and bright And may all your Christmas is be white Be white. And dreaming of a white Christmas. Just like the ones I used to know. And cheer and listen to hear Slave elves in the snow Oh, I'm dreaming of a white Christmas. With every Christmas card I write, May your days, May your days be merry and bright And may all All of your Christmas'ns be white Have you liked the spin spend Christmas on Christmas Island? How'd you like to spend all of the way across the sea? How'd you like to spend Christmas on Christmas Island. How'd you like to hang your stocking on a great big coconut tree? How'd you like to stay up late, like the islanders do? Do wait for Santa to sail in with your presence in a canoe If you ever spend Christmas on Christmas Island You will never stray for every day your Christmas dreams come true. How do you like this thing Christmas with other turkey? On Christmas Island where is a misslephone? How do you like this thing the holiday? Way across the sea, baby for you but not for me. How do you like to stay up late? Like the islanders do. Wait for Santa to sail in with your presence in a canoe. If you ever spend Christmas on Christmas I'm a You will never stray for every day your Christmas dreams come true What's the old boy when he used for a chimney? You will never ever stray for every day Christmas dreams come true To true I'm going to play it. I'm going to play. I'm not a man. I'm not a man. I'm not a man. I'm not a man. I'm not a man. I'm not a man. I'm not a man. I'm not a man. I'm not a man. I'm not a man. I'm not a man. I'm not a man. I'm not to play the guitar. I'm going to do it. I'm going a good man. I'm not a good man. I'm not a good man. Christmas time is here Happiness and cheer Fun for all the children call Their favorite time of year Snowflakes in the air, there's carols everywhere Hold on times and ancient rhymes of love and dreams to share. Slay bells in the air, beauty everywhere. You'll side by the fire, silence, joyful memories. by a fire song and joyful and resent. Christmas time is here. We'll be drawing near. Oh, the weak could always see such go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to Sweet balls in the heavens, beautiful everywhere, You'll find a sign, joyful memories there, darling, darling, darling, Christmas time is here, we'll be drawing near. All that we could always see such spirit through the years I love you, I love you, I love you I'm going to be a little bit more careful. Just nuts roasting on an open fire. Jack Frost nipping at your nose You take care being sung by a choir and folks dressed up like Eskimoans Everybody knows Art, Mickey, in some mistone Help to make the season bright Tiny tass with their eyes all above We'll find it hard to sleep tonight They know that Sad as on his way He's loaded lots of toys and goodies on his side And every mother's child is known as spy To see if rain really knows how to fly and so I'm offering this simple phrase To kiss the one thing I need to do All the words may say many times, many ways, Merry Christmas. To you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be the piano. I'm going to play the piano. I'm going to play the piano. I'm going to play the piano. I'm going to play the piano. I'm going to play the piano. I'm going to play the piano. I'm going to play the piano. I'm going to play the piano. I'm going to play the piano. I'm going to play the piano. I'm going to play the piano. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to go to the next one.