Music I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to go to Thank you. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do a little bit of the same thing. I'm going to do it. I'm going to call to order the April 14 14th 2008 meeting of the Planning Commission. Please rise for the place of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands. One nation under God and invisible with liberty and justice are all. Thank you. Let's start first tonight with a discussion in the agenda before we get too carried away here. Would it be adopted as presented. The second. Mr. Bada-Chelli seconds. Since there are four of us, are we all in favor? Yes. All right. It's approved. We're gonna have to agree on this tonight. Mr. Landis is not with us and our chairman is on his way back from Baltimore, his father had surgery. Father-in-law. Baltimore is father and father in law. So we will press on with that him and hope that everything is going well in Baltimore. Are there any presentations from the public since we only have one official item on our agenda, it's kind of a wide open opportunity. Okay, seeing none, let me pause here for a moment, and welcome Christine Johnson to our group. She's our new secretary replacing Genie Marazuski. So it's good to have you here and I hope we will work with you frequently in the future. OK, let's go to the discussion of the items that we received in our package. The several items relating to the Planning Commission. Some of the powers and requirements that are honest and I would like to turn the discussion over to Ms. Kodalesa to go through the items and maybe in the same sequence that you've numbered them. Sure, be glad to Chair Foster, members of the Planning Commission. At the last meeting, Mr. Foster asked that the commission be provided with the basic materials that are in the code of Virginia that relate to planning and the planning commission and what its duties and responsibilities are. What you have in your package here tonight are five items. First is a review for most of you, which was I thought a fairly lay analysis very easily done of the Dillon rule and how it affects us in Virginia, which is a bit different than people who come from home rural states might be used to. The summary of that, of course, as you know, that in Virginia, we are allowed to do expressly what Richmond says we as a locality may do and anything that is reasonably related to that which they have expressly told us we may do other than that if we want to do something a little out of the ordinary we need to go to our legislators in Richmond and get specific permission to do that. This this general rule came about mostly as a result of several court cases over the years. It's been with us in Virginia. There have been three or four study commissions established by the General Assembly to look at this supporting philosophy as you will of local government in Virginia. The most recent was this past session, there was again an attempt to establish another study commission on this, which has not come to fruition at this point. But that was the first document. It was just a general discussion of the Dillon rule and how it affects us. The second is a series that Christine pulled for us out of the code of Virginia of specific references in the code, most of which are in a fairly compact area, to what the role of the planning commission is. And as you'll see, most of this has to do with two items. One is the comprehensive plan. Everything associated with what a comprehensive plan shall contain, how land use actions and transportation elements in a community need to be related to that plan, and basically indicating what the responsibility as a planning commission and supporting the town council and its decisions. As an advisory body, the Planning Commission is responsible for looking at all of these things and making recommendations to the City Council. I added in here a section which just came out of this most recent General Assembly that has to do with the coordination of state and local transportation planning. This is something that's really quite new. It's not as honorous for us as it is for localities that have actual V dot maintenance of all of their roadways. But when V dot adopted its rules to put in place what they need to do this coordination of state and local transportation planning. They basically decided that everything that was in within 3,000 feet of any V. maintained road that had a certain level of trips would be covered under this. And of course with the city sitting in the middle of the county and the counties roads being maintained by VDOT, I did a map and it basically encompasses everything except the nine square blocks of old amphair facts in one way or another. So if we have significant actions which might be a rezoning and a new subdivision, it might also be a drive-through bank or a drive-through fast food, those sorts of activities would have to be coordinated with V.OT. And the result of this, I didn't give you the regulations that V.OT has come up with, but it's 75 to 100 pages of regulations in support of this statement, which basically require traffic impact analyses and give V.OT.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A.L.A types of impacts that this calls for. And so I think from the Planning Commission's perspective, at least out of this most recent session of the legislature, this was the most significant in terms of what it will mean for your workload. The idea being of course that our new governor has ran on a campaign of part one of his main tenants was getting a hold of transportation and doing regional coordination. And this was sort of, I think, the first shot across the bell. But I thought it was interesting. While tasked with this review, V. has been given no additional personnel. And so all of this review is to occur within the confines of what they already have. And when a plan comes into them, if it is not done within the period of time that is allotted to it then it's deemed to have been approved and I suspect at least for smaller projects at least do we get going on this that'll be true. This is being implemented throughout the state starting with Northern Virginia. We are under this already and so you know we, we've had not any, you know, really large actions, but I would definitely say that the Fairfax Boulevard section of the Comprehensive Plan, as we go forward and pull that in, will be a prime candidate for this type of coordination. The third thing that you have in your- Yes, Federalist. Yes. Let me, if it's all right, let me pause for a second and maybe with each document as we go through if there are any questions we can take them sure Are there any related to the Mr. Chairman I have one question about the transpiration revision you it seems to me about the transgression provision. You know, it seems to me, you know, being a resident of Fairfax in this area, that V.Dott really had lots of problems. And the reputation, the perception of V.Dott is not as an enabler. But, you know but the question frankly is that with new power that V.Dot is given, the intention of the art, are they going to be facilitating the public welfare? Are they going to create obstacles for the localities like such as Fairfax, where we have a unique plan to build Fairfax Bull or others. So I mean, I'm not really sure that what is the purpose of this law, if you may please. That's an excellent question. In this particular case, with something as substantial as Fairfax Bull ofvard, this type of coordination of state and local makes imminent sense. What the law says is basically that when we have fairly significant projects that may affect transportation, we're required to confer with V.Dot and get their input on it. They do not have a gay or naysay. They cannot stop a project that we would like to move forward. They don't have that ability. What they do have the ability to do is, number one, to ask us to do all of the analysis that we, as a locality, probably should do on major projects, you know, get all of the transportation impacts, look at them, get their input on them, and then make a well-rounded decision. I think it would be really honoris and really damaging to our abilities if it was applied to every single project. It would be expensive. It would be time consuming, it would hold things up, you know. I think there'd be a lot of problems with it. And from that perspective, I'm glad that we maintain our own road so that we don't have to do a lot of that. But I think the level of this, the bar is so high for localities that don't have V.Maintain Roads, that these are the things. It really does pull out the things that we really ought to get their input on. Now there may be complaints of developers on projects that it's going to take an extraordinary amount of time. A lot of their review can happen from the very beginning concurrent with the kind of reviews we're doing that has to be transmitted to them within a very short period of time anyway. So I think that it's fairly reasoned, but it'll take a while to work out, and whether or not V.Dot has the staff to deal with it, we'll have to see how that works. Thank you. Mr. Cummington. Thank you, Mr. Crossfield. I would like to back up one further than that, I guess, to the first document. And I gather we've talked about the Dillon rule, but I don't know that anybody, especially in our extensive viewing audience, may or may not know what that is because the term has been thrown around in Virginia for so long. And you would start with a question that what does a civil war, your Iowa judge, have to do with the way that we do business in Virginia. Since at that point, Virginia, our Virginia being a Southern state didn't particularly like Iowa anyway. But Judge Dillon, at the time of the Civil War, apparently, is the author of a rule that if I can paraphrase and perhaps poorly says, unless you're expressly allowed to do something, you may not. And prudence is put in with his rule. And as it was written, that in essence is the way that Virginia has operated with the state granting power to the subordinate localities and governing organizations to maintain a system of order and approvals within their jurisdiction. And the Dillon rule is we have worked on it and as Judge Dillon originally wrote the rules, says that these are the things that you're permitted to do prudently, and that's where power comes from, so that if you want to get creative and go do something new or do something that you have not been expressly permitted to do, you may not. In Virginia, as one of I gather, five states, according to this handout, that still follows that rule, and that's the guidance under which we work. I think that's important for all of us on the planning commission to know, and probably for most of the people to come before us and come to work with city government to understand how the state works as opposed to, you know, when you say by right, I can do anything that's not quite true. There are certain rights that are prescribed that the city and the state and the municipality can do, but not. So the Dillon Rule starts from that premise, as opposed to 45 other states, which have taken a different approach. And that's the point that I think was very well brought out in here, but is probably not understood by most of the people we talk to when you say Dillon rule because they didn't, you know, they don't understand what the Dillon rule is or who Judge Dillon was or how long ago this rule was actually written that we still adhere to and follow as a basis for moving on. So thank you for the, for bringing me up to date on it and letting me read it and come pick up a better understanding of before we were based. Your point was well taken with respect by the way to pulling out the term by right as I think it might have pointed out in here unless even zoning, even something is basic as zoning that we all understand and that's where our by right uses come from here in the city unless the State legislature in Virginia said you localities may zone, we would not have had that right here. And as you pointed out, all of this of course happened a long time ago, but when our federal government said to the states, you guys have the right to do the police powers. Those states then turned around and delegated one way or another, either expressly through the Dillon Rule, or by allowing home rule that municipalities the right to do that. But here we are tied up, and that's a good point. Mr. Okay, Mr. if I may go ahead, Mr. Funningham's point. What I, two questions I have. One, and one first question really is that why Virginians are state legislatures in Virginia did not get of the deal in rule as, you know, as 45 other states have. What is in it, they're really, they're, they're Virginians are still clinging to it. You know, who has the vested interests? So that's one question. Second, interestingly, I think Mr. Kunningham brought it up is that I was very well not confused. I was thinking, it's a counterproductive on the one hand we have a home rule that the state legislatures give the authority to let you know through the you know municipalities and that they can do reasonably lot of power but there's always small class that state can either take away or that the state say well I don't think you are using this judiciously so they can put a restrictions. So I find it a counterproductive, frankly, home rule and dinner rule, although they have existing Virginia side by side, but my question is at what cost to the local governments? to that local government. I trust Mr. Godlesa that's a rhetorical question. Mr. Patatelli have you got any comments on attachment one or two? I have an attachment to on the transportation. The new transportation planning, after it came out, did this affect at all the recent property that we just went through the Frank's property? No, because the threshold is so high in terms of vehicle trips per hour and a few other parameters that now it wouldn't have been been probably wouldn't have affected that. Where it really gets into play is if you have, you know, it's not just a drive-through bank, but it's a drive-through bank with six or seven bays. I mean, it really is a very high threshold. So, you know, the cumulative effects of standard retail with a, you know, bank with one or two drive-throughs and even a Starbucks with a drive-through probably is not going to trigger this. So then it shouldn't affect and I'll use the Rocky Gorge non-deployment, if you will, on that piece of property. It shouldn't affect that piece of property either. If they go ahead and build it. Yeah, I mean, it depends what they build. You know, if you're getting on upwards of 100 or 200 residential units on a certain size piece of land, it's really related to the density and the kinds of trips per hour that will be coming out of that. Now, a residence has less vehicle trips per peak hour, probably than a heavy commercial use, and that's what we'd be looking at. It's the total number of vehicle trips per hour there's a threshold, then there's the vehicle trips per day threshold, then there's the how far is it from you know a highway, so it's a whole lot of things. And depending on the action if it's a rezoning, if it's a subdivision, all of that, it may not even be something you see till it gets to site plan time if it were a by-right development. But a lot of those that have so many vehicle trips end up being either a conditional use or a rezoning so you'd end up seeing it. But if it were a by-right use, you might not even see it because it might go to site plan. Okay, thank you. Ms. Kutlesa in paragraph 2223 of this attachment too. On the eight enumerated items, it designates or references areas in number one, number three, number four. Can an area and from a definitional point of view, can areas be as small as one parcel? Sure. Okay. Sure, I don't see why not. It could be a part of a parcel, you know, sure. I don't see why not it could be a part of a parcel. You know depending You know, it's where when you draw that future land use map where those boundaries are between the uses You might draw it in the middle of a parcel traditionally we don't because it makes a little bit difficult down the road But it could be if it were a big parcel All right, could you before we move to attachment three, oh, you've got a good head. I have a comment on attachment two, I guess it is. One, and it's, it's a partially at our two new members, one of whom is not here tonight, but as Miss Scott Alessa will know, and the chair will know, we spent a lot of time in the last year, back over the last several years, talking about the items contained in here. And this item is essentially our background document if you look at it. We have a separate operating procedure that we have, we review periodically that covers it, but this is the source document that ours was derived from. It has definitions, it has one area that we haven't focused on that I note in paragraph 2202. And we have tended to look to ourself to supporting local areas and things along that line. But in there, it states that each state agency shall collaborate and cooperate with the local planning commission when requested in the preparation of the comprehensive plan. To the end of the local comp plan, we'll coordinate the interest and responsibilities of all concerned. And I think the two points there that one, the planning commission is to look both to the the general welfare of the community that we're looking at. And in the city of Fairfax, we're talking about the city and not the county necessarily, but when we say all concerned, that puts the county back into play in that we've got to consider our neighbors and other people that we work with. And the one thing we haven't had pointed out in my tenure at least on the commission is that it is the responsibility of state agencies to work with us if we have questions. And to help ensure that our document is as good as any that's in this state and addressing the needs of the community. But the rest of it, when we go down, we spend a lot of time last year talking about outreach, and if you go to 204 and some of the other paragraphs in there, the basis for the outreach document that Ms. Goddell has prepared for us last fall is outlined here in part of what she talked about. The rest of this document covers, you know, what we do and how we do it for outreach, the requirement for meetings and the rest of what we put in for attendance. And it's all there, so, you know, thank you again for extracting this document, and including especially the transportation issue, because I think that's the thorny issue that we continue to have to work with. I was going to ask, excuse me, hopefully more for those watching tonight than for us, but not necessarily. So if you would take a few moments and talk about our responsibilities in the comprehensive plan, the CIP, the discussions that we've had previously. The Planning Commission is the primary body charged with preparation, review recommendations, and reviews for consistency with the comprehensive plan. It is the primary planning document. Its implementation is carried out by the types of actions that this body recommends and the City Council takes up in rezoning, conditionally used permits, various types of land use actions, even in some of the things we've seen where public-private partnerships have occurred to do to some downtown to bring it about in the way that we'd like. It is the impetus for having consultants do plans like our Fairfax Boulevard Master Plan doing, you know, future long-range planning. In addition, this body is responsible not only for doing all of the background work and making sure we put on the table what is an appropriate long-range plan for this city, but also every five years for taking a look at the plan and saying is it still valid. Are there things that have changed in five years? Are there forces around us that have changed? Are there things we hadn't have changed? Are there things we hadn't anticipated? Some of the things that we're looking at now, we most recently adopted the entire Comprehensive Plan in the spring of 2004. Now that's not quite five years ago, but we'll be coming up on it in the next year. And we're looking at the Fairfax Boulevard study that we've had done. That's huge. A lot of things have changed in downtown Fairfax Boulevard study that we've had done. That's huge. A lot of things have changed in downtown Fairfax. We've had a lot of transportation issues come up at the state level. We're getting more understanding of and maybe a little bit more impetus toward green building and some new environmental initiatives. And then we take a look at our demographics. Are we still the same makeup as a city as we were? Are we aging? Are we becoming more or less diverse? Are we older or younger? What are our schools going to look like? All of those are responsibilities of this body to make sure that we plan appropriately for the future. Beyond that, once that vision is set in place, you've made a recommendation to the City Council, you've worked it with the community, the City Council has adopted that vision. Then we go back to the drawing board and make sure that our things like the zoning ordinance support that. We've talked several times on this body as we go to implement Boulevard plan, we're going to need to be creative in zoning. We're going to need to be creative in zoning. We're going to need to look at things like form-based codes to bring about some changes in the community that that document envisions. We may need to do some things with green building. Maybe we need to, on each of these rezonings and CUPs and things that we look at down the road, say, gee, what are we doing with green building? How is this affecting the environment even more closely than we have? And this body's talked about historic resources. Let's get a handle on good planning for both our historic resources and maybe a source subject, our parks. You all spent a lot of time when you were looking at the CIP this year, making a statement that it's important to plan for our parks. You all spent a lot of time when you were looking at the CIP this year, making a statement that it's important to plan for our parks. We've seen back and forth in several of these meetings various community groups with conflicting interests and conflicting desires on what types of parks there should be and why. And every time we come up on one, you know, there's folks in the community that want or don't want a particular kind of park or that want additional ones. What we need to plan for that as a whole and your job will be partly to outreach to the parks and recreation advisory board and historic Fairfax City Inc. and bring all of that into this and then carry it forward. What if at some point somebody came in, assembled a lot of properties and wanted to punch a new road through from a German town road straight through a community that isn't on the comprehensive plan future land use map. One of the things you're charged with is saying, is this something that the community envisioned or not, and is this plan for this road or this street Consistent with the comp plan you're charged by the state code with making that determination It used to be called a 2232 determination. I don't know if that's the right section of code still But but that's where you're determining whether or not that is consistent all those are your function in addition to looking at whether or not that is consistent. All those are your function in addition to looking at all the things we look at on a rezoning and a subdivision to make sure it meets all the code. And all that derives from this document, from this specific document. As you mentioned, Mr. Cunningham, we picked up all the bylaws for the planning commission from here and every action you take is therefore directly related. Thank you. For those of us that have experienced the exquisite joy of Dr. Chandler's courses, Mr. Baudicelli hasn't yet, attachment two and attachment three look very familiar. Yeah, that's true. And entirely too familiar. I think on this discussion after Mrs. Godelessa finishes her general run through, we probably ought to keep our questions to specifics, because we could enter into some rather long discussions on the various components of it. And having said that, I'll turn it over to you. Thank you. I think the first document you're talking about is one called Managing Growth in Development in Virginia. Basically, it is put together by the Virginia Chapter of the American Planning Association. And it basically says, here are your tools for managing your growth. These are tools that are laid out in the code, and some of them we've already gone through. A good number of them are not gonna be directly related to the City of Mirafax, as you'll note. A lot of them have to do with managing areas of growth in rural counties that are experiencing growth pressures. You know, a lot of these things are really important in places like Loudon County and not nearly as directly related to us. I think we've really spoken about most of them that are related to us zoning clearly, the capital improvement program clearly. The regulations with respect to subdivisions and site plans and, you know, how neighborhoods develop less so, you know, targeted areas for development and rural development areas, those sorts of things. I think it just gives you a good overview of how you may translate what's in the Virginia code. You know, what the authority is, what you can do to enhance it that is still deemed to be reasonably consistent with the code and implement it in your community. Questions, comments? Again, I think most of the thing that really are there, we have been using them like armed code in that section 2232, we discussed. Again, it's very, very, thank you. It's very, very helpful, frankly. Very useful, he said, I would call it a reference document than when there is a doubt you go back. And again, as Mr. Chairman said, Mr. Chandler is one of the authors. So I have attended two, three courses, try to buy him. So I'm very familiar with this. But it's very helpful, useful. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to try to think there are, I've got several comments, and I'll just pick them selectively from this that are, that are particularly, germane to us in the way we do work. One is found on Chapter 12, or on page 12 in the text, and it talks about limitations, and it talks about that awareness, accountability, and content, if you look under limitations, are three significant challenges associated with comprehensive plans. And states there that educating the public and local decision makers about the role a comprehensive plan can and should play in the community as an ongoing challenge. And that I speak, things speak directly to what we have been working on in terms of community outreach. The process we're going to be starting when we finish so that this is an excellent review to bring us up to speed. And those are, those in essence are what we're looking at as we go into the planning season. So I think a review of this to remind us who and what we're about was excellent and very timely. When we move back to page 20 and onward to our page 22, you've got an excellent description of form-based codes again, which we've been talking about and which I believe a number of members of this body, the Economic Development Authority and staff attended at the Virginia Planning Association conference that was held this past month. But the essence in grappling with it and whether we should proceed that way means that we've got something we agree on with form and can well define if we're going to write a code for it. And in here it is specifically points to the fact that form-based codes in particular different from conventional codes and then they make greater use of graphics to reinforce the text of the regulations. They emphasize the form of the development, especially the relationship of building and mass and openings to the public street rather than the use of density of development, you know, as indicated, and then they go on to cover a diagram and other things along that line. So right now I know we operate in one venue and one set of zoning regulations that put a mindset there. What we're talking about when we begin talking form-based codes is a very significant change that means that we've got to get the same mental picture, especially when they relate to graphics, so that we're all thinking the same picture when we move on to deal with a code such as a form-based code and trying to make it happen. And on page 22, they indicate limitations of it. It should not regulate architectural design, but it goes on to talk about regulating, you know, bulk height, uses of structures and things along that line to reformat it. So that I think all of us will have more discussion on this as we go forward, and it's nice to have a document that points us in that direction. And then also it points down to an area on historic district zoning that I think is worth looking at in terms of what we're trying to retain on page 27 that localities that authorize, to establish historic districts, are pointed at as containing one or more buildings or places in which historic events occurred, or having special public value because of notable architectural, archaeological, or other features relating to the cultural artistic heritage of the community of such significance as to warrant conservation and preservation. I know that we have a separate entity set up with a full-time staff member for historic Fairfax, incorporated, and Dr. Chris Martin, who is on the city staff to work with these. And I think this definition is a good one to help guide us because we've got a number of challenges here. We've got a city that's old and that in Virginia and a great number of things that are worth preserving. But the way we go about it is important and agreeing in our communications on what the definitions are and what we're looking at will go a long way. I think the easing the process as we move forward to preserving the important properties we look at. So that those are just a couple of the points that I picked out of here that are germane to what we have as ongoing actions. And thank you for the. Mr. Kudelessa in page 28. When Mr. Cunningham was referencing the historic discussion, it refers to paragraph 2306. And there may be some related to that, and since we are going to spend some extra time with the historical component of the comprehensive plan. It might be good to see those references. Okay, hold on. Ms. Butler-Jellie, have you? No. Okay. All right, let's move to attachment four. Attachment four is an interesting title. It's called the preliminary final legislative report. The reason it's called the preliminary final legislative report is because as you know, the, I don't remember the technical term for it, but basically the legislature's recessed but then they're coming back. And so the reason it's preliminary final is because, you know, there are things that may be taken up again there, most notably the transportation funding. But other than that, what this document tends to do is say, in terms of planning legislation, what has happened out of this most recent session? You all may know that in even years, only in even years may bills be carried over. They don't carry over bills in odd years. So the section in the back of this where there are bills that are carried over will be carried over to the 2009 session. I'd say a summary of what's in this document. What have they been addressing with respect to planning. Overcrouting is the main one. A lot of communities are experiencing, you know, more and more people living in smaller and smaller quarters and what constitutes overcrowding. And what are the limits with respect to the government's ability to go in and deal with those issues? Light, again, spot, light has also been a big one. An interesting, when I found very interesting, is legislation on non-conformities. We've always said that when something's non-conforming, it is rendered non-conforming. First of all, because it was legal when it was built. But then something, some action the government has taken is served to make it illegal, like it's too close to a lot lying now or something like that. And they are meant to be so tightly controlled that eventually they'll go away and be replaced by a use which is conforming. In this current, as you'll notice, there is legislation that basically says, look, if you've got a use that's been there, and this is fairly loose, but if the use has been there 15 years, and somebody's been paying taxes for 15 years, and you've been accepting the taxes on that there 15 years and somebody's been paying taxes for 15 years and you've been accepting the taxes on that for 15 years, then we're going to say it's non-conforming, even if it's muddier unclear as to when it was originally established, if it was a legality and therefore non-conforming. I think it's one of those common sense things that makes a lot of sense to a lot of folks. There's several pieces of legislation in here with respect to green building, natural resources, trees, chess Bay regulations. The two biggies, I think, in this session, first have to do with the proper system and impact fees. You know, we've done a dance for many years in Virginia with our proper system as people come forward with rezoning and things where, you know, a developer effectively offers some things to mitigate impacts of his development and the community decides whether or not to accept those proffers. And, you know, it's always been how, you know, how tightly can we control this development and try and proper it to get to a development that meets what the comprehensive plan says, but doesn't cause undue impacts. In some communities, they've charged impact fees for various things. You know, you've got X amount of dollars for schools and X amount of dollars for different things. you've got X amount of dollars for schools and X amount of dollars for different things. And so in Richmond, they've been discussing for a long time, sort of getting rid of this unsure thing that developers are very unhappy with, this proper system. And going to a, this is upfront, you know what it's going to cost you for each of these. There's pluses and minuses to both systems. And I know as you went through your planning commission training, a lot of that was brought up to you. There are position papers on it at the Virginia Planning Association website you may want to look at. Everything I have heard from our legislative consultants is no this session, the whole switching out of the proper system died effectively. It is when something gets referred back to committee and it's effectively died, but it's not going away and that we need in Virginia to recognize that. And then probably over the next five years or so, the systems will change and we may go more toward an impact fee-based system. So it's something that we're really going to want to follow because it'll affect the way we do business. And the second biggie that came out of this was the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority tax. I bought a car in January and paid it. So I recognize it to the Toyota dealership here in town. So I bought a used car and they wanted $300 extra. So here it is. I guess I'll be getting a check back because what effectively has happened is that there was a Virginia Supreme Court ruling that said, we're not so sure that anybody other than a locality can do that kind of tax. And so they're going to go revisit this issue. And the last attachment that you have in here is our run down on what we sort of see is going on, just a short paper that our staff put together on everything we could sort of glean. There's lots of little information out there. What are they going to do? We don't know. They're reconvening this, you know, and they're talking about it in the next few days as they get started. These are some of the things they can do, but clearly to fund the initiatives, you know, this is what's gonna need to happen. They're gonna need to either raise fuel taxes or do something like that. But there is a school of thought you asked earlier about why there's, you know, Dylan Rool in Virginia. You know, there's major centers in Virginia. There's northern Virginia. There's tidewater. There's the West. Legislators and Richmond tried really to be even handed throughout the state with that. And some transportation initiatives, particularly big ones, have regional importance in the states a little low to let go of that. So we'll see what happens, but at least you have a frame around what's coming down the pipe. Any questions or comments about Attachment 4 or 5? Questions or observations, I guess, about Attachment 5. The City Council has now acted in its meeting last week and adopted the tax rates affecting various personal property, the old town business district, the business improvement district, and in essence has laid its cards on the table, if you will, for the coming year. What is left hanging as is pointed out in Attachment 5 is all of the preconceived notion as it appears now of what we were going to be headed toward in dealing with transportation issues. Tax rate was reduced in the historic district cut in half for downtown was reduced in the business improvement district by over 80 percent. And I think both of those were with the feeling that the transportation tax was going to have a tremendous impact on the businesses in both of those districts and it was appropriate to give them some relief with another tax coming in rather than just piling one on after the other. And I think that was appropriate for the city to do and consider. Now that the transportation bill is up in the air, it becomes more important because we're still looking at adopting a master plan for the business improvement district. And a good bit of that is predicated upon the ability to deal with the transportation grid structure that's in that district. As we have additional redevelopment projects come through the pipeline in the business improvement district, who and how they are structured and what recommendations are given for the approval of those projects now will impact long-term implementation of any master plan that we might adopt. So that I think we've got some rather crucial things hanging in the balance right now, along with intent of who and how to proceed. And I'm not sure that I couldn't use better information on where we're going and further study or feedback as this process proceeds to help clarify the picture as it's going to impact those crucial things we have coming, because I would think that impact is major. If we're talking about adopting a master plan for the business improvement district, knowing what direction we can go toward implementation is crucial. If we're talking about revising the city zoning codes and adopting form-based codes, which is going to take major discussion for that area, knowing what we want it to look like is crucial to writing a form-based code. And if we don't know what the transportation picture is going to look like, it's almost back not only two steps, but five steps to being able to get a predictive type of process that we're trying to adopt. So that I think some rather major things are on the table at this point. That impact the work that we forced gas we were going to go in the path that we were going to follow in terms of trying to adopt certain things and. and telegraph at least intent to the business community, the city council and the rest of the people that we have talked with and coordinated with. And I think most of those things are now hanging sufficiently that it's crucial that we get information in terms of what is going to be adopted and richment and what the impact of those things is going to be so that we can follow our agenda this year. Thank you. I have a question about attachment for. I don't know if my memory is failing me or I'm having trouble finding the exact item, but it seems to me when I went through here and I don't think it was your non-conforming discussion. It seemed to me there was a bill that related to variances, and if you had a variance and came back later and expanded your structure, the same variant supplied. I think the one you're talking about is House Bill 1079. It's on page six. What it's basically saying is if you have a structure that got a variance, in other words, say you went into the front yard with your porch and you got a variance to do that. If you come back later and want to put an addition on the house in the backyard that needs the back set, back the side set back, that you should be able to do that, if you without getting a variance. But if you want to go back and put an addition on the back that scoots into the side yard and for which you would need an additional variance, there was some discussion that you already have a variance so you don't need another one. No. If you are going to violate again another setback, for example, you would need to go get an additional variance. But if no variance was required for what you're doing, then you would not need to go back. And that's what I think this says. I can get you the full text of the bill. That's quite alright. But I think that's what it says. I appreciate the offer. But. Okay, thank you. Okay, thank you. Any other comments, questions about our primer material? It would seem to me that we probably ought to keep these references handy. The other members will need them. New members as they're appointed will need it. Part of the package that you get. That's a good idea. And maybe people that are not part of the planning commission that we need to keep this reference material handy. Very good. Yeah. Okay. Let's move to the next item. There's no formal action required of this discussion. Consideration of the minutes of March 24th. Are there any comments or corrections? I move you approve them. Dr. Conn makes motion. Is there a second? Mr. Boutichelli seconds. All those in favor aye? Aye. Opposed? Obstain. Motion. Can the motion carry with three votes? Yes. It's a majority of the votes present. He wasn't here. All right motion carries. Ms. Codelassi you've had the floor for a while. I don't know that you want to keep going, but have you got a staff report for us tonight? Now, just wanted to mention that the next meeting, which is scheduled for 428, is during the American Planning Association National Conference, which I'll be attending. And we don't have any items currently scheduled. So I thought that I would check with the board and with you all to put you on notice that we may not have a meeting that night, which would make our next meeting then the 13th of May. But with the chair being tied up to that and have a chance to mention that, but just for your calendar, you might want to know. Okay, maybe we can pull the members within the next week or so and get back to you. I don't need to talk to Mr. Landis and Mr. Barrenbaum. That concludes your staff report. Okay. Comments? Mr. Chairman, no comment except to say that excellent job, frankly. If you appreciate all the information, we're out. Very useful. Very relevant. Thank you. I don't have a comment, but I do have a question. I understand, as I said earlier, the number of people attended the Northern Virginia Planning Association meeting and would ask for a summary of what went on there and some of the useful points either the chair or Miss Cotter-Less would be willing to provide a short statement to that effect. The short statement to that effect would be that we had a number of city residents there. The economic development authority sent quite a nice delegation. Well, let's say large. I assume they're nice, but we won't cut them too much slack. We had two members from the Planning Commission and attendance, several members of staff. And I think the general session was basically a discussion of form-based code, the principles, how it works, and to some extent how it doesn't work. And then there was kind of a mini-sharet where we went and looked at a parcel and came back and created our design for that parcel. As you might suspect, Fairfax delegation seemed to hone in on making grid streets out of this, the inside of this parcel. And we were pretty sensitive to curb cuts that got into major traffic arteries in that area of Rustin. It was interesting. It was clear that some of those folks, I don't, I assume they were all planners other than those of us from the lay world. The thing that struck me the most was how few of them considered the dimension. So we were dealing with a parcel that was 600 feet square roughly. And some of them might only have one feature on that 600 foot expanse. And it was just kind of interesting to see the whole thing. I think it reinforced that there is an important benefit to form-based code as opposed to the Euclidean approach to life. But you could also see that there might be an opportunity or a need to modify it somewhat to fit the reality of the situation on the ground. That the theoretical discussion of form-based code created some problems that would be difficult to deal with. Would you care to offer some comments? Yeah, you know, it was a, I think the good part of the experience was it was hard. I mean, it was really hard in a short period of time to hone in on the aspects of a site. And they told you to throw out topography, you know, pretend you're dealing with a flat site. So we didn't even have to deal with that. Throw out some of the things that normally we'd really have to consider. And you'd have engineers in the group who'd want to measure every inch. And you know, didn't want to look at the big picture. You had other people who wanted to dream and would put something in the middle of where there should be a road because you couldn't get there otherwise. But all in all, I thought it was a really good eye-opening experience and it gave us a chance to look at what can be on a field of green. I mean, there was just this field and how are we going to deal it and fix it. There was also that we were looking at a built shopping center, strip center, and how do we turn this strip center without tearing it down into form-based code? And some people looked at adding on to that and trying to retrofit it, and that was the very artist of all, I think. But a lot of different ideas came out of it. It was interesting. It was a well worth the time, I think, and it was good to involve some more people here in the city in the discussion. So it brought in the aggregate knowledge, I think. Have you got any comments you'd like to? The only comment I had is that the lecture portion seems to have followed attachment three pretty well. And so I thought that was an interesting going on with it again. But I think you're right, the Fairfax contingent, Fairfax City contingent, it would go immediately to grid. Did not pass go and then I collect $200. All right. Are there any other commission comments before we ramp it up? I want to also reference the comments that we ramp it up? I want to also reference the CRA document that was included in our package. It was a general description of what CRA is. And if you've never worked for a bank you don't understand how these two, three pages get turned into pounds and pounds of regulation. I lived with it for a number of years and it has its good points, but sometimes it can be a nightmare. But I think it's important that we understand what it is and what these ratings that the banks have mean to us to the extent that they do. Ms. Johnson, thank you again for joining us. Ms. Kodela, very well done. I appreciate all the work that you put into putting this document together. And I can hardly wait to punch holes in it and put it in a binder and refer to it from time to time. And I'm sure that I will. Mr. Chairman, if I could ask you one question, especially on the CRA document, which is the Community Reinvestment Act document about banks. Just as I was asked, as regards the new Ocovia branch that is being put in the Fairfax marketplace on Fairfax Boulevard, how does the Community Reinvestment Act apply to a bank opening a new branch if it's new to the community? And how does that differ if this is just an additional bank branch of a bank that already operates in the community? Well, it's been a few years, but the way I remember it is that you're going to, if it's a new bank in that locality, then you're going to be looking at their overall plan and how it comes down to the locality that it's serving, the demographics of that locality, and its location. If it's an additional branch within the existing locality, then you probably already have plans. It would be different, let's say, in Fairfax County, because of its much larger geographic area. So, adding an additional branch is almost like it's a brand new discussion. In the city of Fairfax, if you have a walk over your branch on Main Street and you're adding another one on Fairfax Boulevard, you don't have enough substantive difference that you have to restart the plan. You just kind of know where you are with the plan. You've got the banks rating. You know what their commitments are and you go from there. So I don't know that it's a significant issue in Wachovius case, which is a well-run institution. It may be something that we should be more sensitive to if it is a bank that is new to the area, particularly if it's a bank that is headquartered well outside our area, and it's a brand new market to them. And they don't know what that market is and how it works and who's in that market. I mean, they're going to know some of it or they wouldn't make the decision to build a branch in the first place. But a lot of like retailers, Fairfax County, Northern Virginia are arguably some of the better demographic markets in the country. And you just kind of want to be there. I mean, it's not a much more different thought process than Nordstrom's wants to be here. But they can be quite complex in terms of their plans, because you get into so many areas of the banks, the lending, the personnel relationships, investments, some extent your participation in the community activities of your locality, how you're supporting what's going on, minority interests, that sort of thing. It covers the waterfront. We'd used very successfully the CRA requirements about 10, 15 years ago when we started first with Home Pride and now with Renaissance Program to go out to our local banks, particularly ones that are centered here locally and say, this is a program that's within our boundaries. What can you do to support that? And in some cases it might be they paid for the brochures to be printed to send to the people about it. Or in some cases they was signed up with us and helped with, you know, run the program with interest rates. And so that's probably the most visible evidence of a CRA meet, you know, requirement you're being met in the city. Yeah, it's the kind of thing that makes bank or salivate when you get that kind of thing because they get the benefits under the CRA checklist. And it's not difficult awkward kind of business. It's right in their backyard so it's it's something they like. Any other business for the planning commission thing? to try to get in their backyard so it's something they like. Any other business for the Planning Commission tonight? Meeting is adjourned, thank you. I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm Thanks for watching!