Go ahead. We will go ahead and call the City Council meeting in order. Let me welcome everybody to the Tuesday, February 12th meeting. I have to admit that when I walk through the door, I thought there wouldn't be two people in the room as a result of the weather conditions outside. And so we certainly appreciate you all making an effort to be here. If you'd please stand for the invocation, which will be presented by Councilwoman Cross for a main standing for the Pledge of Allegiance. That's our heads. Let us give thanks for all those who are who we hold dear. We celebrate this week love and caring. Let us remember those who are far from their loved ones this Valentine's Day. Others are ill and struggling with numbing pain or confusion and deterioration of their minds. We are thankful to share their lives and are grateful for the reminders they bring to us that good health and sound mind are such valuable blessings. We ask this with joyful hearts ever mindful that the road we travel is a less lonely journey because of the companionship of those we love. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Reclubment for which to stand one nation under God, individual with liberty and justice for all. Please be seated. We have one brief but very important presentation if I could ask for representatives of tender hearts in the Novich Ordnance Hospital to please come forward. This is actually the second year in the row that I've had the opportunity and the privilege to present a congenital heart defect and where does we proclamation? I'm going to ask the Councilman Greenfield, please read it. Whereas congenital heart defects are the most Whereas congenital heart defects are the most frequently occurring birth defect and the leading cause of birth defect related deaths worldwide And whereas over a million families across America are facing the challenges and hardships of raising children with congenital heart defects. And whereas every year 40,000 babies are born in the United States with congenital heart defects, and whereas some congenital heart defects are not diagnosed until months or years after birth, and whereas undiagnosed congenital heart conditions cause many cases of sudden cardiac death in young athletes. And whereas despite these statistic newborns and young athletes are not routinely screened for congenital heart defects. And whereas a disproportionately small amount of funding is available for congenital heart defect research and support. And whereas congenital heart defect awareness week provides an opportunity for families whose lives have been affected to celebrate life and to remember loved ones, lost, to honor dedicated health professionals and to meet others and know they are not alone, and whereas the establishment of Congenital Heart Defect Awareness Week will also provide the opportunity to share experience and information with the public in the media in order to raise public awareness about Congenital Heart Defects. Now therefore, I, Robert F. Letterer, hereby proclaim February 7th through the 14th, 2008, congenital heart defect awareness week and encourages all citizens to increase awareness, education, and services for congenital heart defects. Do you like it? Thank you, words. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Mayor and the City Council for again, recognizing what's so very special to our family. Colin has had three open heart surgeries since he was born. I was blessed to meet the Greenfield family after finding out that their daughter and Colin shared the same heart surgeon. So as Jeff said, congenital heart defects are the leading birth defect in the nation. But very, very few people know that. So we really appreciate the recognition that's given to us. And this is Collins, older brother Will, who would never let me forget last year that he wasn't on TV. So he wanted to come tonight so that he could be on TV. So thank you so much. Hold on. Why don't you tell us some of your names? Will. Will. Do you tell some of your names? Well. Do you have any other words of wisdom you want to share with us? Thank you. Well, obviously this comes close to home. The Greenfield families, you know, had to touch their family, which impacted our city council family and the city of Fairfax. And it is such a pleasure to stand here certainly a year later to know the Greenfield family and the daughters alive and thriving and doing great and obviously your son is as well. So it's quite a detriment or excuse me, I attribute to certainly everything that an oven, all of the folks do in that regard. So we're glad you all are here tonight. Thank you. Yep. Great picture of all of us. Thank you. Oh, I got to get picture here too. Did you get it? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Okay. That now brings us to agenda item number four. A agenda item number four is presentations by the public and any item that is on tonight's agenda, but does not call for a public hearing. So if you'd like to address agenda items number seven, A, through, actually we have a number of them, through seven, E, those public hearings in that opportunity will come later on in the evening. If you'd like to address any of the other agenda items, again, that do not call for a public hearing tonight, this would be your opportunity. If you have issues you want to address to the City Council that does not have to do with tonight's agenda, that will actually come later on in the evening as well. Nobody has previously Madam would anybody like to address the City Council? Mr. O'Dowell. Jury O'Dowell, 3920, Bradwater Street, Brefax City. Item D, regarding charging for volunteer fire department, Fairfax City item D Regarding charging for volunteer fire department ambulance transporting services in terms of I just like the state of general principle not having looked at the document The city should set the rates. I think it does that now Revenues above cost should be returned to the city, not to the fire department. This is a first blush assessment if you will, because it's a city that will be asked to subsidize any losses. Thank you. Anybody else like to address the council? Harry none will close item number four. I'll entertain a motion for the adoption of the agenda. Second. Move by Mr. Silverthorn, seconded by Mrs. Cross, any discussion? I'll unfaith the motion signify by voting aye. Opposed? And a passion annulately. Now we'll move down to the adoption of the consent agenda. Item number six, Mr. Greenfield. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I the adoption of the consent agenda item number six, Mr. Greenfield. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move adoption of the consent agenda for agenda item number six A, introduction of an ordinance adopting the city's emergency management plan, agenda item number six B, consideration of a resolution in support of the establishment of the perfect community criminal justice board, agenda item number six C, consideration of an award of contract and amount of $84,620 to Wemesburg Environmental Group for a design work for improvements to Ashley Pond and the Jenna item number six D, consideration of the memorandum of agreement between the City of Fairfax and Fairfax Volunteer Party Department related to the sharing of revenue from ambulance transport insurance billing. And for a Jenna item number six A, I moved away the first reading inside the public hearing for February 26, 2008. And for a Jenna item number six B, C, and D, I moved to approve the suggested motion in the staff report. Second. Second. It's been moved by Mr. Greenfield, seconded by Mrs. Cross. Does anybody wish to abstain or deject to the handling of any of these items on the consent agenda? Mr. Sorthor? Mayor, I'd like to pull 6c, please. Okay, 6c will now be pulled. Any other objections or comments? Harry, 9 approval of the consent agenda with the exception item 6c. All in favor of the motion. Signify by voting aye. Aye. Opposed. In a pass unanimously, we're now to item number six. C which is the consideration of award of a contract in the amount of $99,995 to Williamsburg Environmental Group for the design work for improvements to Ashbury Pond. Mr. Staffor Port. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. As you know, as the council recalls, the community knows the city purchased the Ashby Road property as part of the open space acquisitions two, three years ago. And the city has made some improvements, although I'll be at limited improvements to that property since that time. Consisting primarily of removing the house, removing all of the debris that accumulated over a number of years on the property that was inappropriate. And the city also landscaped some of the areas and does annual maintenance on it to include mowing during the summers and so forth. A while back we had discussed the possibility of doing some work on the pond and this amount was budgeted for the work and the intent of this work is to dredge the pond, make it a more useful, more aesthetically pleasing pond and we're somewhat behind on getting this work underway. This is a commitment we've made to the neighborhood some years ago and so we're recommending going forward with it at this time. And let me just say for the record, I actually read the amount often old agenda. And I read about $99,000. The actual amount is $84,620. Mr. Sir, thank you. I have no objection to proceeding with this. I just would rather take pause tonight. And the reason I'm raising this and I fully understand the commitments to the community to do this. This is one that frankly, I think we can all argue that various parks that we purchased with our open space acquisition fund are really gems in the city. This is probably by far one of the most sentimental favourites of a lot of us on the council. I think we've made the improvements that the city manager has spoken to in terms of removing the old house, cleaning out some of the brush, certainly dredging the pond would be the next logical step. But I got to tell you, when we sat up here in the last couple of meetings and talked about the six or a nine million, six to nine million dollar budgets shortfall, these are the kind of niceties that we need to pause on and put on hold in my opinion. I realize that we're going to have spirited debates over the next several months about the budget adoption and items in the CIP that need to be put on hold, perhaps even funding additional items as part of our community center concept with the gift that we've received. But this is one item that is not, in my opinion, something that we have to do immediately while we're looking at both huge spending cuts over the next three or four months as well as Tax increases. I would recommend we pause. Thank you Other comments just to be here. Just cross Thank you I couldn't agree more with Mr. Silverthorn three marks. I think Ashbury pond is is A very lovely park waiting to happen, but it doesn't, there isn't a compelling reason that we need to undertake the work at this time. I was advised by Mrs. Freeman, who is our city engineer, that there might be need or she would recommend that we do spend $5 to $10,000 to do some soil analysis and to be sure that the watershed is stable and that we don't incur any liability. So I would ask that staff come back to us on this matter and we do those necessary things but for the time being that we postpone our improvements to the park. Any other discussion? I assume we need a motion to proceed further. I assume no motion would mean no approval of the item, but so I guess either I'll entertain a motion, or if I don't hear a motion, we will move on to the next agenda item. Is that, I quite frankly think the right thing to do would be a motion so that the members of council can go on the record in terms of how they stand on this particular expenditure in the community. I always love these conversations when we get tough on $99,000 and then spend millions and millions of dollars in other directions and other ways. And I agree with Mr. Silverthorn that there is not a better open space asset in this city than this particular pond. It suddenly decide we're drawing the line in the sand on this project at $99,000 and not all the other millions and millions of dollars of money we spent in the last six months and we'll probably spend in the next six months. Mr. Mayor of the night. If I could finish, please. Or please, to me, is just a little bit short-sighted. But with that, if there's not emotion, we will move on. I'm happy to make a motion in the 90s young, please, we'll have plenty of time to address the other issues you'd like to address. Mr. Murr, I move to deny a contract. The Williamsburg Environmental Group, the amount of $84,620 for the design of improvements to Ashby Pond and the surrounding park area. Second. Moved by Mr. Silverthorn, seconded by Mrs. Cross, discussion. All in favor of the motion, signify by voting aye. Aye. First questions, I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm just going to roll that in here. Go ahead. Please. I'm just trying to figure out if there isn't a better way to try to do this, and that is defer this until we wrap this into the budget discussion. We're only a couple months away from getting into the budget, and let's take this in consideration with everything else that we're going to do with. I agree that we've got to make some difficult cuts, but maybe in the scheme of things that this might not. If I had to vote tonight, I would vote against it, but I would rather see us take this and consideration in the spirit of the rest of the budget versus doing it tonight. If we're talking about potentially getting rid of it. Mr. Rasmussen. This action actually does that, I think. It just defeats the contract or does not award the contract, but that would still be in the CIP. There's still contractors one more time. Yes. That's right. Do you call them it? I'll unveil it in the motion to reject the contract, a vote by signifying aye. Aye. Opposed? In a pass unanimously. We are now down to item number 7a, which will start our series of public hearings, 7a's of public hearing, and counsel action in the request of the Army Navy Country Club for a special use permit to expand the existing golf course in the R1 and R2 districts for a special use permit to allow redevelopment and fill in excess of 12 inches within the floodplain for a special exception to allow construction and grading in the resource protection area for a special exception to permit less than the 20% tree canopy in the R2 district and less than 25% tree canopy. And the R1 district on the premises known as 3315 Oli Highway. Has this been properly advertised? Yes. Staff report, please. Yes, sir. Good evening, Mr. Mayor and members of City Council. The Army Navy Country Club is pursuing the special use permits and special exceptions to the announced by the mayor. Subject site is located. You're gonna have to talk up or get closer to microphone. The subject site is located south of all we highway and and Fairfax High School to the west of Pickett Road. Can everybody in the audience here? Okay, because it sure night come in this way. We need to make sure your PowerPoint is on at least the back screens. Here we go. There we go. Again, the subject site is located south of Oli Highway and Fairfax High School and to the west of Pickett Road. The specific length used for requests are for special use permits to allow expansion of an existing golf course in the R1 and R2 districts. Redevelopment and fill exceeding 12 inches in depth in the floodplain. And special exceptions to allow construction and grading in the RPA. And less than 20% tree canopy in the R2 district, and less than 25% tree canopy in the R1 district. The evaluation based on criteria specified under the sections 110366 for all special use permits and special exceptions 11089 for the encroachment into the RPA. The subject site here I have a blue circle around an area I'm going to read to address it. It focuses you in on for the areas specifically for the RPA encroachment and the fill-in-the-flood plane. The two blue arrows indicate the modified resource protection area, the 100-foot buffer to each side, as a result of the US Fish and Wildlife Service recent completion of a stream restoration and reallignment of Daniels Run. This area here indicated by the red arrows is the proposed areas for either fill in the flood plain and for the encroachment into the RPA. And again, the blue arrows here indicate the boundaries of the RPA. The green arrows is one of the potentials of the green arrows for a second. Indicate some of the typical features that the golf course is wanting to upgrade. You see a series of new T-off areas here. You see sand bunkers here and the fairway being realigned, flightly and widened as typical of what's happening throughout the site. The red arrows indicate the primary spots for fill in the floodplain along the section of Daniels Run. The Army Navy golf course is proposing tree removal for the site. The site is indicated here as R2R1 is split zone between the two. And the red arrows indicate the spots where trees would be removed from the site. The dark gray areas here. The proposed tree removal and replacement for the site, which is 232 acres, is for removal of exactly 547 trees, which would equate to approximately 2.36 trees per acre. The canopy removal in the R1 district is equivalent to 2.3%. Canopy removal in R2 is 2.2%. The weighted average of the required canopy for both districts looking at the side as a whole is approximately 22%. The applicant has proposed 260 shade trees and still hasn't determined the number of additional understory trees to go back in the site. And the weighted average for both districts after the removal and planting back of 260 trees will be 23.08%. districts after the removal and planting back of 263, which will be 23.08%. Council had a question last time regarding maple more, the small dead end here, it's off of Cornell, and it apparently was set up as right-of-way in future road when the subdivision of the neighborhood happened. It never followed through. In fact, there were outlots behind the houses that come up through here that were actually consolidated with those lots. And the general area here is one area where the golf course but some of the existing residential or some of the trees will be coming down for improvements. And previously proposed, Council saw this at the work session. The areas here indicated by blue and along this strip here, North of St. Andrews, would be primary areas where trees be removed butting directly against residential. Again, the red arrows are indicating some of the typical features, and down at the bottom you can see that they're pointing out the T-boxes, realignment and addition of T-boxes. The proposed removal and planting schedule along this area currently is depicted, and if I go back if we focus your tension around there we can see they've reduced the number of trees that would be taken out and they have proposed a series of plantings of Willow trees along the periphery. This does illustrate the 260 shade trees that the applicant is proposing to plant throughout the site again this is R2 on the top and it's R1 on the bottom. In addition, the applicant is proposing over 24 acres of no mozons. What this is is primarily meadow grasses that would be allowed to grow up to four feet in height and would seriously positively impact the RPA and quality of water on Daniels Ron. Approximately 1.86 acres would be located in the RPA. Staff recommendation is for approval of the special use permits and special exceptions subject to nine conditions contained in the staff report relating to Should be five. I'm sorry consistency with the plans a few more approval Archaeological assessments true removal and preservation and water quality Staff will answer any questions you may have Question is that, Ms. Lyme? Thank you Mr. Mayor. First of all, in the report, you put on your slide that they were going to remove 547 trees and the report says 536 and we're just debating a couple of trees there. And they're only going to replant 260 trees, is that? That is correct. And looking at the spreadsheet that came along with specific, each tree numbered, the approximate number was 547. And the proposal from the applicant is for 260 shade trees. OK. And then I guess I need a little bit more explanation that it's the 22% canopy that we're talking about. And they're saying they're going to do 23%. That's out of 100%. That's what I understand. Can you explain that to me? I guess I don't understand how much canopy and not much canopy and... Sure. The two districts are slightly different in size. R2 is 138 acres and R1 is just over 94 acres. And if you look at the whole site as a site itself, the weighted average R2 requires 20% canopy and R1 district requires 25%. So if you take the acreage and average those out, the whole site requires 22% to meet the zoning ordinance requirements. Okay. That's for the whole site, but are there certain requirements for, you know, over the floodplain or the RPA? I mean, are there different requirements for those specific areas of the site? Number-wise and canopy-wise, no. The RPA section does speak toward enhancing the buffer and maintaining natural vegetation through the RPA buffers. Okay. And so I guess my question is when you looked at this, you said, oh I think it's okay that we do 260 trees. Why wouldn't we ask for them to do a one to one replacement along the areas that they they've described to, you know, they may take some out somewhere somewhere But why aren't we doing some kind of one for one replacement of trees exactly and the applicant provided this close of business on Friday and Staff had an opportunity to look at initially yesterday and it would make sense There are areas where additional trees could be planted on the site to go back more toward a one-to-one replacement especially If they were to look at some of the understory trees and planting within existing mature growth. Okay. And then as I glance through this, on page, I guess, three, as I was glancing through, you talked about that they would enhance or improve the floodplain. In some way, I guess I need to understand how they're gonna do that. Specifically for the, was it the RPA or would it be floodplain? Well, I think we're talking RPA. I think it's under the RPA section. That's right. Good question. Yeah, the RPA, let me go to the realignment section here. When US Fish and Wildlife came back and realigned this strip of Daniels rumour it converges with Ackatine, they did a, in most portions, between 40 and 60 foot reestablishment of buffer area. I'm sorry, see there again. 40 to 60 foot wide reestablishment of the buffer in certain areas. Okay. And the applicant is proposing to come in with some plantings including trees and native meograzes to further reestablish the new buffer area that should be 100 feet on each side. It will not be exactly 100 feet on each side due to existing course amenities, but they will be supplementing with native metograzes. Okay. And when you were there, I guess last week, did you notice that has any, have any trees already been being cut down? Have they been tagged? Do we know how many trees, you know, we've been down this road before? So have we tagged all the trees to say, this is what it's going to look like? So the community understands what the impact along, I guess it would be Cornell and then down along Daniels Run, do we on both sides of the creek actually? So has that been done? I think the applicant's engineer has only indicated with ribbons the areas of tree study, but not the specific trees. Okay, so we really haven't had them tagged so you really don't realize how wide or how many trees are really going to be gone along Daniel's run and along the Cornell area, is that right? As of last week, each tree hadn't been, unless it has been between this time, the time staff was there and now. Okay, so there's no trees that have been cut down yet to do this project, really. It should not have been known. Okay. Okay, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. R. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Restman. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Did I understand you to say that you just got some of this material you yesterday? Yes, sir. Would not that be a good reason to defer this right now? Yeah. So move. The only, certainly not objecting that I'm just wondering since we have people who came out tonight and we've got six that have signed up from the community whether or not we'd want to hear their testimony and then take action at that point. Anybody who made the effort to get here didn't have a problem. We ought to give that opportunity to. Okay, since we're going ahead, I have so much to share, please. Who initiated the realignment of Daniels run? It was a conjunction of the golf course noticing a lot of the erosion factors along the golf course facilities, and they contacted the Special Wildlife Department, which in turn worked with the city's community development and public course departments. Has the city arborist or have we done an independent review of the tree survey that was done? Yes. And you agree with all of the conditions of all of the trees? As far as we can tell, yes. Some of the canopy, it would be difficult this time since this was applied for in November to fully assess where they're saying maybe poor canopy, but the trees are still in fair to good shape. We do agree they're in fair to good shape, but the extent of the canopy is kind of hard to determine at this point. Okay, so we have independently walked all the trees. Yes. Thank you. That's all for now. That's me. That's just a screen film. Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Just as a follow-on to Mr. Rasmussen's question, if we were looking at limiting the number of trees that they could take down, say it was nothing over a 24-inch and diameter of trees, do we know how many trees that would be? Yes, over 24 inches, they're approximately 77 trees. And of those 77 trees, do we know how many, I mean, well, let me put it this way. If we did something like that, that would exclude trees that are dying or are our verses in agreement with the down for whatever reason. 71 approximately that are in good or fair shape. 6 that are dead or dying or decayed. Okay. and good or fair shape, six that are dead or dying or decayed. And we walked this when? It would be, I think it was two weeks ago Tuesday. All right, that's it for right now. I've got more questions, but I think I'll go to the applicant. Thank you. Miss Winter. Thank you, Miss Mare. I think I'll go to the applicant. Thank you. Ms. Winner. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. I, too, have a question on the number of trees that are coming down. And in your report, there are 40 inches in diameter. And these are old trees. Now, granted, some old trees are dying. But from what I understand of the 547 trees, there's about 25 to 28 that are dead. That's a very small percentage. I can't see, I agree with the no-mose zones. That's great to be able to have a little bit more ecologically friendly and probably a little bit more of a traditional golf course like you'd find in Scotland. And I don't know if that's what they're trying to get as a little bit more rough and a little bit more challenging golf course, but the number of trees that are coming down I think is unprecedented, especially for, we're supposed to be the tree city. And I think that needs to be readreased. Yes, they're replacing, but are they replacing with trees that are native or ones that are going to be pretty? It needs to, I believe it needs to look that it's indigenous to this area and it's not that it's for the pretty effect. You know, you need to look at, you know, where, what you're actually trying to address. Thank you. Other questions or staff? Mayor, so. And this may be a naive question, but I mean, obviously the focus is going to be all on the trees here and that's certainly the focus of the neighborhood I'm sure when they come up and speak. Is there any way that we can accomplish or that a golf course can accomplish their goals without any other way, without taking down these trees in terms of the re-ambigoration of their course? I mean, I just, for me, from where I said, I mean, I just think that this is something that's serious issue for the council, the neighborhood, and that's going to be the debate, I'm sure, and it seems to me that there's more than one way to get at this if they put some creative thinking behind it. It's a large piece of land, a lot of property, but maybe I'm speaking naively here. Can you help me with that? Yeah, there are some specific areas where some teas have been relocated and it creates new sightlines and other opportunities along the golf course, editions of tea boxes and widening of fairways. And the golf course is combating, their number one concern is the over amount of shade on the course really plays detrimentally to the upkeep and maintenance of the golf course. There are opportunities to also supplement plantings. additional locations there, as far as maybe redesigning the course, I'd have to refer to the applicant to see what their plan of action would be on that. And I realize that's an expense, but I just, I mean, this is also not from, at least from where I said, something that the council is looking forward to being supportive of. So I'll look forward to their testimony. Thank you. Ms. Cross. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I have great concern about the tree loss too, but I do have a question about Daniel's run and acting. In the conclusions of your staff report, you say that water quality of Daniels running a quick creek are monitored and insured that is the water quality. Who's responsibility is it for testing that water? What's your understanding of that? That actually comes from a development condition imposed on the golf course in 2002 that they monitor the water by taking samples to the health lab and then give reports to the director of public works at the time was supposed to get results from that. So they collect the sample and take it to the appropriate laboratory and then the results come here. So if there were any problems with the water, we could the city would notify them and they'd be required to take remedial action. That's a little bit more. Thank you. Any other questions, this is a... I just have one and it's related to primarily the areas which would be my closest focus would be that are long residential communities. Did the staff look at, I know there's a lot of photos that have been circulated in the last couple days in the potential impact that it would have on the residential community and the screening and the trees that the mature trees that have provided for years. Did staff specifically look at those areas and is it the opinion of staff that what's coming down versus what's going up specifically in the residential areas that about the residential communities that it's not a major negative, it's a neutral or a better situation, or can you share with us your analysis and not the overall plan, but just the ones that are along the residential strip. Yes, and if I could get IT to show the illustration I have on the screen now, it would help out a little bit. Now this is what's currently being proposed, and believe there are between this strip and the strip, approximately 14 trees that would be up for removal. And on that exact strip we did look based on what we had previously, which would be this, specifically at the number of trees there here and at the individual trees there here, the, I think three of us went out there and we're looking at the trees and for our suggestion, they did cut back on the number and the scope of the trees been taken out. Along with some of the replantings, we've talked with citizens and staffs who have gotten the opinions both ways as far as the trees go. Some of the persons aren't supportive and have no large issue with trees being removed, enhances their view of the golf course. While others do not want to see the trees removed from both an environmental aspect, removing them. I understand, I'm actually asking staff's opinion. I'm sure we'll hear from the community on theirs. Is it staff's opinion and looking at it that it's not a major negative impact on those houses that about the golf course? Yes. Okay. All right. If there aren't any other questions to staff, this is a public hearing. We'll open the public hearing. We'll invite representatives of the Country Club to please address the Council. Good evening. I'm Keith Martin, zoning counsel for Armony Navy Country Club. I just want to start off with one of the initial questions. The recent information that came to staff was at the request of staff and an effort by the club to reduce the number of trees that are coming down. And that has been accomplished furthermore. We've been asking staff for weeks for a list of native species trees to be a part of the replaning plant. We just got that recently and responded immediately within 24 hours and got that information to staff. So that is why staff just recently got that information is more part of the site plan rather than a part of these applications. So that's in preparation for the site plan that will be on the heels within a day or so of council approval of these applications. With me tonight, our Greg Scott director of golf of the Army Navy Country Club, Richard Mandel, our golf course architect and RJ Keller, our civil engineer. They work very hard with staff to get here tonight and get this recommendation of support from staff. The applications before you are the second phase of course improvement and modernization. The first phase was the 2007 public private stream restoration project for Daniels Run with the Fish and Wildlife Service. Army Navy delayed this project that's before you to the night for over a year and spent $1 million to assist with this environmentally important stream project. It was completed in the early fall of 2007 and over 200 volunteers attended the final day to assist in stream bank planting. The very successful project. The golf course renovation project is critical to the playability and maintainability of the golf course playing service, which is grass. From day one, our architect and engineer made the project's top priority to reduce tree removal to the absolute minimum and continues to this date. And we will continue to do so during site plan, during on-site changes where we can save an additional tree, we'll do it. This is in contrast with Oakmont Country Club in Pennsylvania, the site of several US opens and future US opens, their recent modernization where they removed over 5,000 trees. Army Navy recently revised their plans pursuant to a site walk with city staff to save an additional 150 trees over what was initially published. This reduced the number of trees now, what is, and I think this is inaccurate numbers that staff has put up to approximately 450 trees that are scheduled that we know right as of this date have been flagged and tagged to come down and that have been shown to adjoining neighbors and citizens and outreach effort. A tree replacement plan has also been submitted to staff for the 260 trees with a variety of eight native species. That's what we've been waiting on because the city does not have an adopted list of trees and so they've been looking at a joining jurisdictions and we end the state and we keep saying, just tell us what you want. And they finally told us what they want and we said sure. So that has been submitted. Plus six species of understory planning. So that is all part of the site plan process. And that's always been part of the site plan process, which will be reviewed and approved after this process. This project does not build new holes or create new development in the floodplain. It only proposes to improve existing holes. There is zero impervious surface proposed, additional impervious surface proposed with this project. Drainage facilities that have been aging or are failing or will be improved. There's going to be modern irrigation systems which will be much more efficient and much more environmentally sensitive. Approximately 30 acres of the course will be converted to either low impact along Daniels Run, plus the 24 acres converted to no MoZones using native grasses, shrubs that will remain undisturbed and grow 2 to 4 feet in height, improving water quality, and reducing the velocity that Daniels Run. Approval of this project will allow the establishment of these buffers this summer and protect the valuable stream improvements that were done this last fall. Once again, unrestrained, overland velocity and the Daniels run on a big storm could have impact on all these improvements that Army Navy spent a million dollars on, and efficient while life spent much more on. Army Navy has completed an extensive community outreach, resulting in overwhelming positive response and support from adjoining neighbors who see the link between course improvement and their home values. There is in conversations with the neighbors, and you're going to hear someone in the night, they bought along a golf course so they can see the golf course. And there is established value and real estate of living along a golf course. I know, no, several neighbors are here tonight in support and we were copied on letters of support to the council that recently came in. I have entered into the record 80 letters from city residents in support of these applications. Army Navy would like to thank city staff for all their hard work and positive recommendation for these applications. It is critical to this project to obtain council approval this month. I understand Mr. Rasmussen is initial motion to defer this, but it is critical that we have council approval of these applications this month to proceed forward with site plan and have it approved by mid-May otherwise we'll miss another growing season. We won't be able to put in the NOMO zones. We won't be able to put in the NOMO zones. We won't be able to start on this project because if we don't start by June, the growing by before the first frost of the third quarter of this year will occur and will have to wait another year to start this project. We've been patient, we've cooperated with the city, we've cooperated with the federal government, Fish and Wildlife, done our fair share, and been happy to do it. We've been a good city citizen and neighbor, and I think you're gonna hear a lot from our neighbors who are very pleased with this project, and we really appreciate your favorable consideration of these applications. I'll be happy to answer any questions. We have our civil engineer architect, the course super, anybody to answer any questions of why it is important. Sometimes it's important to remove a tree that is overgrown like weeding your garden. I know trees are important. This is city, you know, tree city USA. We've reduced this to the absolute minimum number of tree removal to make a golf course work. This is not a park. It is a golf course. You need grass to play golf. And there are areas of the course that because it's the can ofary canotary in the shade is so heavy, you can't grow grass and it's become dirt. So that's why what we're doing. We really would appreciate your cooperation. Thank you. Any questions of the afternoon, Mr. Greenfield? Mr. Smith. It's been a while since you've done the course, Mr. Martin. I've missed you. I must tell you if I laid on your course, you'd take down all these trees. My ball wouldn't have any place to go. I spent a lot of time in the trees. I always joke I play three courses, the right side, the left side, and occasionally down the middle. Try to help me understand that I know that you want to take down trees to improve the ability to grow grass in some areas. Are you trying to widen the fairway in most of the areas of that issue? There are certain areas of the course that we're widening fairways. And I can, in fact, have Mr. Mandel answer that question of what's the objective here in those areas? This is Richard Mandel. Good evening. Thank you. I'm a golf course architect and I've been in the business for more than 17 years. And in projects like this, we average, we take down thousands of trees in many situations. So here, we're only removing 450 trees from day one, we've worked hard to minimize the number of trees that we're removing. The reasons we're removing trees as we're introduced by city staff as well as our attorney are to improve playing conditions but also environmentally, environmental issues. Right now, the major issue with all golf courses of any age is the, is the conflict between the ability to grow grass and trees. Trees, tree canopy creates shade and so grass can't grow. And many places at Armin Navy, there are bare spots of dirt, these tree canopy creates shade and so grass can't grow. And many places at Armin Avey there are bare spots of dirt, which create erosion problems. Number one, number two, high maintenance issues as well. But the big thing is the erosion. By removing trees and being able to establish decent stands of turf grass, we can minimize erosion. We talked a little bit about the NOMO zones. We're adding, I think, 25 or 26 acres of NOMO zone areas. And those are specifically to minimize erosion and all sort of filter runoff going into Daniel's run as well as off site. And that's a critical element of this project as well. A tree removal from a playability standpoint is a consideration with widening fairways, but also with regrading areas so that slopes are low softer and easily easier to maintain. And by the same token, easily can maintain turf grasses as well. So that's a lot. Those are the reasons why we're removing trees. And a lot of the places where we're removing trees along the edges of the property, we are not removing trees from the edges of the fairway all the way to the property line. We're really just removing trees along the fairway edge. And in the cases along the roads that you're referring to, and if you look at the plans on the second hole of the red nine, and the third hole of the white nine, there is sufficient buffer of canopy hardwoods between the property line and where we're removing trees. So there'll be no instances where we're removing trees completely. In fact, there are areas where there is some opening right now and we are going to be putting trees in there. So that's an important aspect to remember that we aren't necessarily clear cutting from the fairway all the way to a property line. We're just cutting, taking down a few trees as along the fairway, and behind there there's at least one, maybe two or three instances where there are different rows of trees behind the trees that we're removing. That'll still act as buffer between the golf course and home sites. How does the width of your fairway today compare with other golf courses like maybe a Westfield? Maybe a Raspberry balls those are newer compared to Harmony of the country club. Well the average fairways at Army Navy country club are in the 25 to 30 yard wide With and that's almost in many cases. That's sort of like how wide fairways are for us open So it becomes detrimental for the average goler to place such a narrow fairway. And what we're trying to do is widen fairways to the 40 to 50 yard wide with. Now regardless of that, the trees, in some cases, not every case, removing trees is going to widen that. But really just being able to grow the grass and be able to add fairway grasses will help to widen that as well. You're talking about taking down the smallest trees, probably an 11 inch diameter tree and replacing those with, I mean you've got some that are probably this big around. You're talking about replacing the trees about that big around, but 260 of those, is that what I'm understanding? Not necessarily. I mean, as we planned, what we were guided by by staff was to plant trees that are three inch in diameter, I believe. And that's what's, what's, what is recommended by staff, that is a typical 10-year tree that will give 250 square feet of canopy. So we follow the guidelines of what staff wanted us to plant when it came to those types of trees. You heard me raise this earlier and I'm certainly I'm certainly moving in this direction. And that's trying to reduce the number of trees over 24 inches in diameter that would be removed. That still gives you 300 and some trees that you're going to be working with to remove the widened year course, but it's going to preserve a lot of those large mature trees that are in good condition. Is that something that you can end, of course also planning trees and still planning trees in other areas of the club? Is that something that the applicant would be opposed? I have to ask that. I can't impose that condition on you without asking you if I can try, but you always have to ask if the applicant has a problem with that condition. Well, we've already addressed that previously to tonight. With the plan that we've submitted, there were many more trees that we would prefer to take out to help improve conditions at Army Navy. And we've gone down to the bare bones and minimum, absolute number of trees that we can remove already. They are all tagged and they've all been noted on the plans. I think staff wasn't sure that that happened, but all the trees have been tagged at least for 30 days, I would say, in some cases, is that right? All right, that's it. So all those, all the trees have been tagged. We have gone through value engineering numerous times throughout this project in the past few years and trying to scale back and minimize the number of trees that we need to remove. A lot of the trees, regardless of size, it's not necessarily that we're looking to take 24-inch trees out. We need to remove trees that are in strategic places that are in places where we need to regrade the areas or girl grass. And we're trying to one of the things that we're working on improving in Armin Abies, improve the safety health and welfare of the members by improving safety issues and creating being able to regrade things and create more safety buffer. And that requires taking the tree taking the trees out in those spots. But in some cases in those same areas we'll be putting trees back. So we have really gone through that process and minimized how many we can take out now and we're really almost at bare bones minimum of what we can take out. Of the good trees that are in place where you have canopy issues, are you not able to go in and prune those trees back? Well, now one of the advantages of the removal that we're doing is there are trees, trees compete with grass, but trees compete with other trees as well. So in some cases, these areas are overgrown. There are too many trees competing with each other. So we aren't pruning trees, but we're going to thin trees by removing some so others can survive and flourish. And that's been done in conjunction with a forester. Here, you're working with Arborist. The club has had some conversations with Arborist on certain things, but not necessarily on that subject. That's mostly myself working with our engineer and club staff. I mean, when you're talking about working on sending out the force to allow other trees to grow, that's usually done in consultation with a state certified forester. I'm a landscape architect by trade, and we have some training in that as well. Now, thank you. Mrs. Winner. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. This the present placing of of of trees was planned. You know, they were most of them were not naturally occurring that they at some point they were planted to accommodate the original course. So my question is by taking trees down and putting new trees in will willow oaks say, I know that there are oaks in Monticello, the Thomas Jefferson planet. They last a long time. So if you are going to be putting in willow oaks, are they going to be put in places that they can stay for the next 200 years? Or are they going to have to be moved again or taken down? No. And that's part of the reason why we can't, why we haven't been able to propose a one-to-one planting because if we did that, then there would, we would just be creating the same issues that we're trying to solve right now for the club. So the placement of the 260 trees and they're all hardwood canopy trees like willow oaks and red maples, et cetera. We've placed them in places where they will flourish at infinitum and will not affect the playability of the golf course beyond now. But that's part of why this project is so important to the club. And I have played your course and I can't appreciate that there are some trees in places where Mother Nature put them and they probably could have been removed a long time ago. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Any other questions? The applicant. Very none. Thank you very much. We will now call on the folks in the order that they've signed up. First to sign up as Mace Carpenter. As you'd come forward, if you please give us your name and address for the record. Good evening. Mace Carpenter. I live at 30508 Sherman House Drive, not far from the Gulf Course. I'm also a member of the Army Navy Country Club, so you know my prejudices from the start. First, I want to thank you for your time and consideration. Any time we talk about trees and remove it, it can be a very touchy issue, and we appreciate it. Our overarching goal of the club, I'm also in the Board of Governors for the Army Navy Country Club. And one of our overarching goals is to be a good citizen in a lot of ways. We want to get along with the fellow residents as their home. We want to make sure our environment's nice and they very spoke about the million dollars we've invested in improvements to the angels around. We are concerned about the economy and what we bring and we want to be a positive influence there. And then also our quality of life. We want to have a course that's proud. We can be all be proud to have. There are several of us from the City of Fairfax tonight. I think we have approximately 120 residents of Fairfax that are our many AB club members and we've taken a lot of time and the folks have done this. We've spent a lot of time highlighting to our neighbors. We've sent letters out to everybody that borders. We've gone up with Barristers' Keep and met with them to make sure they understand what we're doing and have been as open as we can. We do a lot of support in the community. We support, again, the million dollar restoration thing that we've worked with a number of people to improve Daniels' run. If you haven't had a chance to walk through there, please do because they've done a beautiful job. Nor he had a roting cliffs of dirt in places that were flooding. Now we've got streams that flow nice and barriers and all that. And again, the tall grass will help improve that. As a neighbor of Fairfax High School, for the last two years, we support them with parking. As they went under their renovation. We support Fairfax High School with their golf team and other junior golf activities. We provide free golf and lunch once a year to our police and fire department members. Just of appreciation of the services they provide. We are actively involved in our issues and we do care about the trees. I've learned a lot as we've gone through here, and as you look at campy coverage, it's a lot of it's where, when you measure it, how you measure it. We could plan a lot more trees, but they're measured at 10 years for the campy coverage. Well, if we plan a lot more trees in 10 years, we're gonna wind up thinning them out again, because they just don't have the room to spread. We think we do provide significant green space for the community with the course. Our program, again like they already talked about, is to maintain the balance between the community interest and the good playing course that we're trying to get. We are supporting the tree management process. We do feel bad about the trees we're taking out. I believe it's around $4.50 now. That's out a rough guess right now, probably around $4,500 trees. So, I mean, it's not like we're taking out whole swaths of the area we have. Again, this will improve the green areas and improve the course. If there's anything we can do, I ask that. Let us know what we can do to be a better neighbor and we're ready to provide information at any time. The folks have worked at real hard. A lot of times the tree canopy in-game is a clear number of 20 and 25 percent, but it's not always clear how you measure that when you measure it and how you get there. Because the tree can't be as grow and they change over time. Thank you. Tom Hardy. My name is Tom Hardy. I live at 3512 Cornell Road. And I'm going to come and ask you to defer this for tonight. I'll pull disclosure. I know R.J. Keller. I know R.C. Fields. I've been development committee for 35 years in this area. In the representation, I was sent, does not show what's being done according to what's out there in the field. The trees that are flagged and what's shown on this is not what's happening. I'm not going to get into the rest of it because I don't know what's happening on the golf course. I haven't seen the plan. I'd like to see the site plan. But I would ask that you defer this to another time because I don't think it's been properly researched and as somebody who's had to replace on a one to one basis, I think that's certainly appropriate when you're in an urban environment and you're taking out, you know, a significant number of trees. The trees that are coming out are very large trees in a lot of cases. My neighbors are more affected than I am, so I don't really have a dog in the fight on the trees per se, other than how it affects my neighbors. Thank you. Thank you. Carolyn Kennedy. I'm here on behalf of my mother. She lives at 3520 Cornell Road. She's a 50 plus year resident of 3520. She could not be here due to the weather. I'm here to oppose on her behalf the removal of the tree removal aspect of this special exception. The number of trees to be removed is significant, nearly 600. Trees including dead trees serve a variety of important functions. Wildlife habitat, carp and sequestration, erosion control, et cetera. And their elimination should not be considered lightly. My mother's property is one of the most impacted. The trees proposed for removal adjacent to her property are large, mature, deciduous trees. You're seeing some of these right now on the screen. The removal would have several significant impacts to her property. The removal of trees will affect the survival of the remaining trees by making them more susceptible to wind damage. The trees to be cut down have provided protection from golf balls. We have a pool in our backyard and use it quite a lot. Golf balls from flank shots, land in our yard, all the way up to our house. That hazard will greatly increase if the trees along the property boundary are removed. Over the years, they have acted as a protective buffer between us and the golf course. The trees also add to the beauty of the property and have a significant economic value. The golf course has been functioning well over the past 50 plus years. I occasionally golf myself and I do not expect a golf course to be obstacle free. I do not think others have that expectation as well. I also wanted to just add to my written remarks and based on some of the things that I heard here this evening, that I challenged the architects' contention that they're not eliminating trees right up to the property line. That is simply not the case. And particularly on my mother's property, both behind her house and directly to the right. Her property is the one where there is an easement. It's the sixth house on Cornell Road. I also, I question this need to remove trees to increase the viability of turf. There are certain types of turf that will grow in shade. The trees have been, they are proposed for removal or at least 75 years old. So the original golf course had these large trees when originally constructed. I almost think that this is sort of an old-fashioned view of golf courses. I work in the field of wildlife conservation and impact the trend for golf courses these days is to provide greater protection for wildlife and habitat. And I actually sent some of this information to the plan or last week. There's our certain certification programs and I urge you to look into those. Unlike other neighbors my mother did not receive any direct correspondence from the golf course. We don't have the letter that was referenced by the other gentleman here and it's one of the most impacted properties. So I certainly think that at this point we've heard arguments for deferring this decision tonight. The other issue is that the trees that will remain on our property will shade the area that they are trying to provide greater sunlight for, based on the way the movement of the sun. So it's not going to cure their problem. I also urge you to look at these pictures specifically and see that some of the issues where they're saying that there's dirt, it's not in fact dirt, it's a playable surface. I think that's essentially what I wanted to say this evening. I also wanted to point out that when the golf course was redesigned back in the 1990s, I urge you to go back and look at the commitments that you made and that the golf course made at that time to protect the trees. I think that that would be valuable to go back and look at what those conversations were. And that's in essence my remarks. Thank you. Thank you. David Meyer. I'd like to distribute to the council members in the mayor some glossy photographs with what you've Thank you. Thank you. My name is David Meyer. I live at the 35-08 Cornell Road in the City of Fairfax. And my property also is adjacent to the golf course. My backyard faces the golf course. The golf course was designed and constructed in 1951 as an 18-hole golf course. An additional nine holes were constructed in the mid-1990s, and as Caroline noted, that at that time the applicant in requesting approval to put the additional nine holes in said that they emphasized that there would be no changes to the balance of the course of the original 18. Now, I think the fundamental question first to ask here is why is the applicant in fact requesting these changes? And that is because, from my perspective, at least, that the fact nine holes of the course are far more modern than the original 18. So there's a different style of playing and a different design. And so I think that from my perspective, the intent in part was to bring some unity and continuity among the entire golf course. Now, for golf aficionados, that is probably something that is significant. Now, before I go any further, I do want to say that I would concur and some of the comments made about the golf courses, the country clubs attempt to be good neighbors to the city. As the PTA president, we do appreciate the cooperation of the Army Navy Country Club and providing swing parking space during the construction at the high school. And that was very helpful. And I also commend them for their efforts on the Stream Bank Restoration. My wife, my daughter, and my son all participated in that project as part of a scout outreach program to do their bank restoration. So there have been some good faith efforts to address some legitimate concerns that the golf course had as well as adjacent property owners. And those have been good improvements. But when you remove trees, well let me say this with respect to the management of golf courses, the first and foremost issue in managing a golf course is it happens to be trees. When you remove some trees in a grove, you sometimes create unintended consequences. And what we're talking about here is a cluster of trees right up to the property line that would, from an ecological perspective, are right next to trees that are in the backs of these, of the other property owners. You remove the trees along the property line, you put trees that are in the property owners yards at greater risk from the west valley winds and storms that come across that area. Managing trees is probably the most significant part of managing a golf course among many others. And I understand that. But trees more than the size and design of a golf course are the most distinctive landscape elements and should be treated as the course's greatest asset. And I believe that an enhanced design of the golf course to address some of the issues that you refer to in your question is possible without the wholesale removal of scores of trees and excess of 60 years of age. An example would be the Washington, Gaulten and Country Club on North Glebrough, Norlington. That was the first golf course created in Northern Virginia in 1894. 55 years before the Army Navy Country Club was created. That course has managed to sustain itself. Over the years, it's a viable and attractive club without wholesale redesign and substantial tree removal. My recommendation is that the council simply not take action on this tonight, and that there needs to be greater scrutiny and communication between the club and the council and the adjacent property owners regarding this proposal. The tree planning slide that was shown here tonight was not included in the staff's report and it was not provided to the adjacent property owners. There is a lot of uncertainty just exactly what is specifically, as mentioned, in the staff report, what these words mean if you look on page seven, it was page two, page seven of the staff report where it says golf course use. And the expansion would allow for widened fairways, new bunkers in large fairways and similar upgrades throughout the whole site. But the specifics of that have not been shared with the adjacent property owners. There was an attempt to communicate with us, but what was sent to us was ambiguous and raised more questions than it answered. I would propose that the Army Navy Country Club, that we somehow create some kind of consultative working group that would include broad representation of adjacent property owners as well as the golf course management representatives and an independent arborist who could look at this proposal and evaluate the impact of the changes in the tree canopy. Thank you very much. Thank you. Nobody else has signed up prior to the opening of the public hearing with anybody like to address the council. Yes, please. You'll have to come down and give us your name and address from the microphone. I'm Val Morgan. I don't know if I'm impacted but I'm on Cornell and I'm very upset because I like trees and this kind of tree, gee wow, is going to have a canopy like this. We have trees now with a canopy like this. We have trees now with a canopy like this. Besides being lovely, they keep some of the golf balls out of my yard. So I don't know if I'm impacted, but I know we're on Cornell. There's a fairway right there. Golf balls come into my yard. They come into my neighbor's yard. They come into my neighbor's neighbor's yard, where your kids kids grandkids are And we don't need to lose any more trees It's hard to believe that this is a tree city. I Just was driving down main street and there's fertilizer pellets thrown all over the Trees and we got this mounted stuff. None of that's good trees throwing all over the trees and we got this mounted stuff. None of that's good for the trees. And all of this where they're going to remove more of the barrier by the creek, that's not good. They're going to take out with a, they're going to impact 500 some acres and give us a piddling amount of some grasses. Well, and I also know our whole neighborhood didn't. I didn't know. I live right there. So I imagine there's a whole lot of people that don't know what's happening. And the other thing, one other thing about trees is dead trees are good trees. We have piliated woodpeckers back there, but not so many anymore. You know what that is. It's the woodpecker. Woodpecker. And there's a lot fewer of them now. And since they did add that nine holes, we were living there at the time. And I was told at that point that they weren't supposed to be cutting down more trees. There was some agreement. But I could hear the chainsaws all the time. I'm sure they weren't cutting down on these suckle. And anytime you're going in and you're going to take these trees out, unless you're going to take out a tree, cut it into little pieces and carried away without having equipment roll over that ground that's next to it next to another tree Then you're going to kill the tree that's next to it that you maybe didn't intend to treat kill but if you're the golf course you might not care and The other thing about a willow oak There's not really much you're going to plant under a willow, because a willow has a plan that's, it's a little pathic, the leaves and it puts out chemicals so things don't grow under it. And there are things that you can plant that grow under trees, just not grass maybe, but there's stuff, different types of grass that will grow. There's mosses that will grow. If you leave the leaves that came down, then you can play off of leaves. I think this could be handled much more ecologically, soundly, environmentally soundly. I sure hope we put this off and don't take out these gorgeous trees. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor, members of Council, thank you for the opportunity to make comments tonight. And congratulations on these chambers. They're lovely. It's the first time I've been here. And can see why your meetings take a long time, occasionally. Nobody wants to go home. I'm Paul Schwartz, the resident of the city living in Barrester's Keep since it opened eleven years ago. I am my colleague Frank McCann, currently on the board of directors of our community. Our small community, forty homes and Frank and I are currently serving on the board. I have three points to make. The first point is that we consider any improvement to the Army Navy Country Club, and this is a strategic improvement to the Country Club, to be of benefit to homeowners who live adjacent. I've been stopped by strangers coming through barristers keep offering to buy my home twice in 11 years I've lived there because they've approximated to the Gulf Course. So it is definitely a long-term interest to homeowners along the Gulf Course. From our perspective, we don't not have a tree problem. I can appreciate those that do. We happen not to. Perhaps it's because of the way the land lies, because of the nature of the trees. But if anything, we could recommend several trees be taken out and not be replaced, which would improve our view of the Gulf Course. So it depends on what section of the proposal that you're looking at, which is obviously to everybody. The second point I'd like to reiterate several people have made it is that the club has been a good neighbor for the time we've lived there. We did attend a briefing at the club at their invitation two months ago, and it was a thorough briefing. It laid out what the impacts would be on our community, who to contact, what the issues were, and we left. We went back and briefed our entire community, and as far as barristers keep us concerned, we are not voicing the sorts of problems and opposition that you hear tonight. The third and final point that I would make is that we all are not members of the Gulf Club. Many of us, myself included, do not even play golf. So it's not, and we don't even use the facilities, the clubhouse or the restaurant or any of that. It is a perspective of a large green space that has a potential to be improved for a strategic long-term value of those properties and certainly for the inhabitants of the city. We all benefit from having the Gulf Course there. If it were not to be a viable Gulf Course, one can only imagine what would happen to that valuable property. And I think we would all suffer if it didn't continue its operation. Thank you very much. Thank you. Anybody else like to address the City Council? Yes, please. Good evening, my name's Gary Paraman. I live at 1108 Westmore Drive. I'm not your local tree hugger and all that stuff, but I do have a question concerning the trees. Most of the photographs that he put up there show these trees border the creek and then on the lower side of that golf course the creek that runs behind the Bolan alley and up by Home Depot there's a very large creek there. If you're taking out 500 or 450 trees, is that going to exacerbate that flood problem? Anybody that's lived here a long time knows that that creek on a good rainy summer day fills all the way up and almost comes up on 123. I would say you might want to have a hydrologist take a look at that property and look at what it's going to do to the creek bed. Anybody that knows anything about creeks knows that the roots of the trees or really what holds the creek beds up in most areas and if you remove a lot of the trees, what's that going to do to the soil? So, it's just, you have questions here that I don't think has been answered. I would say it's time to put this back for another month. Take a look at these different problems and see what you come up with. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else like to address the City Council in this item? Mr. O'Dell, 1929-20, Bradler. Just to show my biases up front in 1988 before my wife, who's now deceased, and I moved here, we considered buying a property next door to a different golf course. And the prospect of being perpetually bombarded by loose cannons like Gerald Ford, Spiro Agnew, Dick Cheney, Mixing Metaphors was sufficient to discourage us. We didn't like the prospect of golf balls bombarding our house, our windows, our backyard, perhaps while we were trying to enjoy the art. The whatever happened to this notion of tree city, haven't heard that. Council brag about that in recent years, perhaps we haven't been getting the award, so many trees have been taken out. And now, Army Navy, which towel itself as a good neighbor, expects a payoff because they provided temporary parking during the Fairfax high school renovation and largement, almost expecting to extract the favor. Well, maybe they deserve one, I don't think so, and after that. Maybe if they would agree to replace the trees that they proposed to tear down and that loss of 287 trees, maybe if they would relocate those trees at the park on the west end of West Street, which was decimated by the males other than the mayor on the City Council in the late 90s when to make room for two fields, you know, tore down all the trees at least prematurely, if not unnecessarily, because only one field was actually constructed for some time. Well, I digress. I do have to say that I find their remarks about grass, the fibrillative being facilitated by having fewer trees, does have some appeal, it's up to you to decide whether the appeal is sufficient. I'm disturbed by the fact that they want to infringe on the Daniels run area. Others have used fancier words to describe that aspect. I don't think you should ever be interfering with natural resources like that, but I know that you agree with me because you built Stafford Park, ballpark on the Stafford property or approved it. Above, over the objections of numerous citizens, I think you should take seriously the suggestion of the woman that said you ought to go back and look at the prior agreements, past applications of Army Navy, the conversations, the testimony, the conditions, the understandings. Only with that historical perspective can you have an adequate background to make the right decision, unless you just want to rest the judgment. The, I had another remark, but I think to have mislead it. but I think to have this laid it. Thank you. Anybody else want to address the city council? Harry, now before I close the public hearing with the applicant like to read, address any comments before we, first of all, I just want to point out to the council that especially after Mr. Rasmussen's recommendation, we did a letter to every abutting property owner down Cornell and St. Andrews, including Mrs. Kennedy. In fact, Mrs. Kennedy has been a focal point for the club for many years because she's been outspoken. She has concerns that the club has always accommodated her concerns and will continue to do so. So I don't know what happened. We didn't send them certified mail but pursuant to that letter campaign after the work session. We've held eight meetings with individual property owners that called. We said, please call us. We're making ourselves available. And we got eight people that called and said, and they walked the course. And I think seven of eight walked away. And in fact, I think numerous, several of them wrote letters to the council saying, once we saw it, we're in favor of this. We have no objections. So we've done the outreach also, the gentleman that said or the lady said her association, she's never heard about this project. The gentleman from Barristers' Keep, we sent letters to eight of budding hominers association early last fall. Saying, please come over, contact us, we want to hold a community meeting. We held a community meeting at the club. Several people called me saying they'd be there. The only ones that came were the two gentlemen from Barrister's Keep. Nobody else showed up. So we've gone out of our way to make this an open book discussion. We will continue to do so. I would like to have our engineer who tagged all those trees. Some of the photos that you see with trees tags are just trees that were in the original area shown on the plans for possible disturbance but we've further refined it with tree tagging in that area showing the actual trees that we've reduced it down that would be the minimum amount to be removed. I just want to urge the council a deferral of action on this beyond the 26 is tantamount to denial. And we'll be back to an 09 project at best. And so I respectfully ask that if you do choose to defer this to only defer to your hearing on the 26. I'd like to have RJ Keller just explain. He's the one that has spent days tagging these trees to show what's gonna happen here. Good evening, my name's RJ Keller. I'm a land surveyor with RC fields and associates. And I think I just to make it clear, I know another number of people, actually members of the golf course had brought this issue up before as well, is in order for our survey crews to go out and locate trees, they had to know which trees were located, trees that were in the impact zone. So a lot of trees were located, not necessarily all of them were intended to come down, but a lot of trees on the course had white flagging around them that were numbered so that they could be located and given to the design team so that they could assess the location, whether they were feasible to save and that sort of thing. I know some folks have looked at trees across their fence and that sort of thing and seen a white flag around the tree and automatically assume that that tree is coming down and that's not necessarily the case. And the detailed tree plan shows an individual location, those tree locations and the tree survey indicates those trees that would come down. So and again, as Richard Mandel mentioned before, the plan has been scaled back so that some of those trees can be maintained, and a number of the trees that were originally intended to come out that were close to some of the residential properties have been earmarked to be saved as well as planning some supplemental trees in those zones. So hopefully that's helpful. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. And if you said this, I missed and I'm sorry, but can you tell us just the difference between the red tags or the red ribbons and the white ribbons? Well, the white ribbons were to locate trees. The red tags were later put in along with the Landscape Architect and the or the Call of Course Architect and this course is a different tenant. The red flagging were to delineate trees that were earmarked to be removed. So the trees that just have the white ribbon are not intended for removal. It's only the trees that have the red. I think some of the some of the white flagging trees will come down removal, it's only the trees that have the red. I think some of the white flagging trees will come down, but it's the white flagging was originally intended to locate trees and not necessarily, like I said, not necessarily for removal, but was to direct fuel crews so that they would know what to locate. So how would a member of the City Council or someone in the community know which trees were actually tagged for removal then? Well, the red flagging is one indication and the other indicator would be to go to the tree management plan that's been prepared and compare the trees that are remarked for removal on the tree management plan. There are tree management plan has highlighted areas that show the canopy in the areas where trees will be removed and those individual trees that are numbered are in that shaded area are the ones that would be remarked to be removed. And then across reference that with the tree survey so that you can compare what type of tree and what size of tree would be removed. The other question is the applicant, Miss Cross? Do you have any idea what the total inventory of trees on the course is? Yeah, one of the total inventory. I'm not sure. I know we talk was the answer 4,500 is that what if you repeat that the estimate is somewhere around 4500 trees and What what What is the total cost of this project? I'm sorry you're gonna have to go to the microphone. Anybody who speaks is going to have to speak into the microphone. Yes. You asked for just the Fairfax aspect of this. I believe it's roughly in the $66.5 million range. That includes the million dollar worth of work on Daniels' run. To clarify on the trees with the red versus white the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that are the ones that went in myself, the director of golf, and our golf course superintendent, we tagged all the trees for removal that are adjacent, that affect the adjacent homeowners with red flags. So if a homeowner looks out their yard along red two or white three or white four, they'll see red tags and they'll know those trees are coming out. The white trees in those areas are not coming out. Now there are areas inside the, within the core of the golf course that does not, that are not along property lines, all those trees that are tagged white are probably going to be coming out. So the homeowners can tell which trees, Jason to their homes, are coming out because they have been tagged with red flags. Do I need to question? Yes. If I could just clarify a few other points. Regarding Daniel's run, the club initiated this project to restore Daniels' run and work to conjunction with Fish and Wildlife specifically to address hydrological issues. And the renovations have solved erosion issues and possible problems downstream. So that has already been done. Very few trees, if any, and you can see on the tree management plan, a long Daniel's run are actually coming out within the RPA of Daniel's run. A few are, but very, but percentage, the percentage is very small compared to the trees that are coming out and minuscule compared to the 4,500 trees that are on the whole site. Ms. Lien? Okay. I do want to go back to the tagging of the trees. So when you just talked about the Daniels run area, all of those trees are tagged red. Well, Daniels run. That you're going to be taking it out. Well, Daniels run runs the once there's one spot along the property. The golf hole is called white four, and Daniel's run runs along a parallel to that golf hole. And there we are taking, I believe eight or ten trees out along that golf hole along the fairway. Now beyond that there are, there's another line of trees and then offence and then another line of trees and then Daniels run and then on the other side of Daniels run, there's a path and on behind the path there are two more lines of trees. So there's three or four different lines of trees as buffer from homeowners along there and the trees that are adjacent to Daniel's run are not being taken out there. The trees that we're taking out between the trees that we're taking out and Daniel's run are two more lines of trees. Okay. Mr. Mayor, I wonder if I can suggest this. If you could tag all the trees red that are coming down so we can really get a good look at it. I mean that's what happened over when we were over looking at a ball field issue too. We really can't get the visual of how many trees it is until you can see them tag. Which might help us get to another point because when I look at this little chart to try and compare what's coming down and what isn't coming down, I think it's more convoluted. So that would help not to give you false hope by any means. And if there were, I keep hearing different amounts of trees, 450, 573. I guess I really feel like this is a moving target. And I appreciate that you all have been very good neighbors. And I just would hope that we could come to, at least be able to see how many trees are coming down and be able to walk that property, to do that again. And then I have a couple questions for staff on that issue just so we have a better clarification for it. The next thing that I was looking at when I was reading this report was one of the things was you're going to go 12 inches into the floodplain. It's 12 inches, it's a foot. It's what you're talking about. And when you looked at that, you did use the hydrolysis or whatever we call that to discuss how that would have an impact, and can we have some explanation of that? What you're saying that there wouldn't be an impact, but I can't imagine taking all those trees, wouldn't have some impact. Well, there are no, that's not a tree issue. It's an earthwork issue. OK. And when you determine floodplain issues as to how much church you can move, the question comes, is there a net impact? I'm going to let. Project Keller expand on that as far as the flood, the issues of dirt work in the floodplain. There are, are there any trees in the floodplain that are actually coming out? The trees in the floodplain that are actually coming out? I think there are a few trees in the floodplain that are affected. The earthwork in the floodplain is primarily for improving the golf course facilities, but the T-boxes and bunkers and that sort of thing. We do have a few areas where it was necessary to raise the grade more than 12 inches and that sort of thing. We do have a few areas where it was necessary to raise the grade more than 12 inches and that sort of thing. And that's why floodplain study has been done to reassess the impacts of the floodplain and that sort of thing. As far as the RPA goes, the stream restoration project restored the functional area or the primary conveyance channel of the stream to a more armored condition so that it can withstand the flows that come down Daniel's run which are higher due to upstream development, obviously, whereas before it couldn't handle that sort of thing. And a primary component of that is the type of vegetation that's planted along the banks and the type of armoring that's utilized, the structural techniques that are utilized to armor the bank and then allow the vegetation to take place place so the vegetation becomes a primary component of that armor. Well, I guess what I'm hearing from the community is that they're very concerned about the flood plane issue and the erosion and how many trees are coming down within the flood plane and really what kind of plantings will be there. And I think in my mind if we could come up with a better plan for that or at least be able to delineate that for us instead of kind of a complicated charge for me to go and match and do trees, that would really help us out a lot in my mind. I still have to say that 573 trees, a lot of trees, and that's very hard for me to say, yeah, let's just knock all those trees down. So I just wanted to give you that. Okay, let me clarify. Last those questions. You mentioned 573 of the report, I believe, says 547 and you were referring to it as a moving target. It is not a moving target. We established an amount of trees and I believe that it's 436. Is that correct? It's moving target. He's going to make sure what that number is. 547 was the number a few weeks ago. We revised that to try to minimize how many trees we were taking out. And R.C. feels worked with staff on that and updated them with the accurate number. Okay, well I have in my report here, I not to get an argument, but it's 547 and then I go to page 4 and that's why I asked a question earlier, it was 536. So I, you know, and 450 versus 550, you know, give or take one or two is, you know, that's 100 more trees. So I guess what I'm asking is that we really get, you know, rope's 100 more trees. So I guess what I'm asking is that we really get, you know, rope around all these trees, a red tag, something so we can see how many there really are and how many really will impact our community and really understand the erosion on the creek. So those are my three things that I would like to see happen. If you see, on the erosion issue, the flood plain study had been done to address all that. And we improved erosion issues already that were there previously before the the Daniels run restoration. So that had been taken care of. We have all, we've done our studies and our design to solve those issues. And my concern is there are some trees that you'll be taking down in that flood planning area and I just want to make sure the impact won't be great at there also. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Wooder. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Looking at the one plan that we got, the majority of what's going to be taken down looks to be as if it's in the middle of the golf course. A long Cornell, where the neighbors have been concerned, can those not come down? You know, the idea of there seems to be a lot along where the tank farm is that is not probably going to affect neighbors. It doesn't, the neighbors that came forward on Cornell, it doesn't look as if, you know, it's maybe you're doing it to widen the fairway and in doing so, they're going to get more golf balls in their yard. And so I can see that that it's not good. But if you look beyond here, back in here is I think where you need to look, you know, if you could say no, we're not going to take those trees down. And then also one let vericitors keep. It doesn't look as if anything is because nothing's changing around them. So no, I don't think they would be affected, it doesn't look as if anything is because nothing's changing around them. So no, I don't think they would be affected because it doesn't look like anything's happening there. And is that the golf, the nine holes, the newer nine holes are at this area? Are they up in the R2? Well, they're in both of those areas. They're in both. But they're probably not going to have as many changes because they're newer than newer, of course. No, not necessarily. They'll be equal change, regardless of the new holes versus the older holes. But the, again, the holes where we're taking trees along property, the trees aren't being removed all the way to the property line. They're sufficient buffer already there. There are trees there behind the trees we're taking out that are on the club's property still. But I think probably the neighbors, it's there's probably a difference in opinion on what's considered sufficient. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. opinion on what's considered sufficient. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Any other questions of the outfit? Mr. Clean, Phil. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Actually, I don't. There's a question. I can direct this to the attorney first. In terms of a couple of things, I'm going to start with one point that you made, Mr. Martin, regarding outreach and your reference to homeowners associations. And as you know, homeowners associations are much easier to get a hold of and work with because all of their members have to belong and they have very easy form of communication to be able to get the word out regarding meetings so on and so forth. Civic associations and while Odley Hills is a tremendous civic association is probably one of the better organized ones in the city, it's still difficult to make sure that when you contact the board, that the board has gone out and contacted those homeowners that are affected along it. So I'm not surprised. I know Mrs. Kennedy in over the years, and Mike Indian, she's had some legitimate concerns to include massive fans that come on at 4.30 in the morning. I'd be pretty mad if that came on outside my bedroom window. And we stopped that. I think you would as well. So there have been, you know, concerns. I realize that you have worked to address that. But it's entirely possible that you may be missed a few people when you thought you were reaching out to the civic association and they were going to be able to get in touch with all those people and maybe they were and maybe they weren't. So I would just ask that if we move in the direction of, I would expect that we may defer this until the 26 that you try to get back out and make sure that you have talked in some form or fashion with those residents that back up along Cornell. Because as I look at, as I look at the red tape around there, and I can tell you, you send somebody out there unless you're going to have someone from Army Maybe Country Club with your contractors, you're going to see some of the trees that have white tape around them come down as well because it was an unintended consequence, and somebody didn't understand what you were trying to explain when they start ripping with a chainsaw. There are a number of areas I've almost given opportunity. There are a number of areas where you aren't really clearing trees to open up undergrowth, you're clearing trees. I mean if you look at you know some of the pictures that we've been sent to put things in a color perspective if you will versus the the plat and the spreadsheet that you sent us there are some areas where you're really talking about just completely getting rid of all the trees. Now maybe maybe that's correct maybe it's not correct it sounds like at least from our side of house, coming up with some neutral color piece of tape that you can put around these trees, so we really have a true understanding of what exactly is going to come down and what's not going to come down in the next two weeks maybe warranted. Also, a little concern I can, I at least, picking up on the frustration among you and every one of the people on the Arminivii Country Club side, this testifying, we're trying to get a hand on this. I mean, this is a big issue. You're talking about a lot of trees, a lot of mature trees. A lot of people bought houses backing up to Arminivii Country Club, expecting that those trees were going to remain. I remember when we dealt with Bearisters keep that application, they wanted the builder wanted those trees to be preserved and we worked on the limits of clearing and grading to make sure that those trees weren't damaged. I think Mr. Silverthorn and Mr. Rice Mussel were on the council at that time. So now your plan talks about removing them. Some people want to see more of the golf course and I can appreciate that. But we're trying to get a handle on this and I just caution you to keep that in mind. I understand that Mr. Greenfield. Of all the letters, in fact, we work with staff immediately after the work session of identifying even an extensive over notification of a budding properties along that anyone that could consider to themselves a budding to the golf course sent letters to them with attachments. Who to contact? Please contact us. We want to meet with you. Eight people have responded. If there's a baby, should I go knock on their door if they haven't responded and say, you need to meet with us? Because those people that did respond and came out were very much satisfied and understood the color coding. So I'll be happy to do it again of, I think it was 30-some home owners and eight responded and I'll do it again. And if I need to go door to door and wait for them to come home and ask them will they come with me out to the golf course, I'll do that. But I can't force them to come out and understand the project. Mr. Martin, I appreciate that. That's not what I'm suggesting. All I'm suggesting is making sure that whether it's to certify mail or it's through federal express or whatever means you've got that you can document that you sent something to everyone that's impacted. And then if they don't show up, that's certainly they've been given the choice whether they do that or not. But as soon as trees start to come down, I can guarantee you people will say, wait a minute, I didn't realize that was going to happen. And then we're going to be dealing with that. And we've seen that time and time and time again. Would you be opposed if we if we move in the direction of deferring this? Would you be opposed if the city brought in a state for Worcester or whoever it would be? And we work with with your people. I'm still still convinced, I've heard that a landscape architect came up with this pre-removable plan that the trees were looked at and certified. I've heard it was an arborist. I heard it wasn't an arborist. Would you be opposed to kind of pulling together two groups of people to try and go through and look at all of these large cal... In particular, all of the large caliper trees that are healthy and whether those really need to come down in an effort to still accomplish what you want to do but in respecting the concerns of the city and community has no problem. We've been trying to be open book this whole way and done extensive studies on floodplain which shows and we've modeled the Fish and Wildlife floodplain study, pursuant to completion of the Daniels run, with this projected, and we've submitted the city staff, submitted to FEMA already, they're reviewing it, it shows no impact on the Daniels run. So we're willing to do whatever. And I'll send out certified letters to all those people tomorrow and bring you the green cards. I don't want to be questioned. Do you want them motion? No, we're still in the public hearing. Any other questions in the applicant? Okay, if not, we'll now close the public hearing and I'll place it in the hands of the City Council. Mr. Mayor, if it's possibly the intent to defer this until the 26th, we may not want to close the public hearing. We may want to continue the public hearing until February 26th, because otherwise the applicant doesn't even have the ability to come back before us to talk, unless it's under any item not subject to a public hearing, they couldn't come back to us and be able to dialogue back and forth. Mr. Luckham, and that would be best to handle it in the form of a motion to keep the public hearing open. Is that how it would handle? That's correct to continue the public hearing and defer action. Right. So I'll entertain a motion on if somebody has one, Mr. Westmusson. I would move to defer. I would really prefer to March 11th, but the interest of moving things along unless my, yeah, let's say March 11. Second. And I assume the spirit is to keep the public hearing open. I may not just speak. It's been moved by Mr. Rasmussen, seconded by Mr. Severthorne comments. Mr. Rasmussen, just since you moved it, let me give you the opportunity to speak first. And then I think it's obvious that we need more work on this. And so hopefully this time will allow that to happen. Mr. Thank you. I'll just turn to speak first and then I think it's obvious that we need more work on this. And so hopefully this time we'll allow that to happen. Mr. Sovrith. I agree and I selfishly I'm going to be with my parents for their 65th winning anniversary on the 26th. So this will enable me to be in town for the public hearing and the action. Thank you. Are there any other comments in the motion to defer? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion, signify by voting aye. Aye. Opposed and it passed unanimously. We're now, Mr. S. Moussen. Could I follow up on Mr. Greenfield's point and have the city engage, yet either an arborist engaged or if there is a state forster available to work with us and the applicant? Thank you. And just by additional information while we're on the subject, you know, I keep hearing referred to the 1990 agreement when I guess the course was expanded and some of the citizens were indicated that there were commitments made then that are assumed the assumption is being violated now. Is it? I assume staff has reviewed that agreement, but it, could we get a copy of whatever was done in the 90s so that the council will have the benefit of that information for those of us who weren't on the council at the time? Mr. Luther? Luther? Luther? Luther? Luther? Luther? Luther? Luther? Luther? Luther? weren't on the council at the time. Mr. O'Connor? There was a fascinating meeting that took place about eight months to a year later. It's wonderful to watch on video if you ever care to watch it. One of the most spirited debates I ever recall. I personally watch council meeting replays all the time after meetings. Okay. If there aren't any other comments. Let me just say I know staff had sent me a letter. Evidently, there's a large number of people that are standing out in the hallway. The item that I believe, if I've got the information right here, will be actually item number 9a, we're on 7b. So there's quite a weight. There is an overflow room right next door in the work room. There's live television over there. So, well, this room's emptying out as well, but if you want to grab a seat and get comfortable, that certainly is at your option. We're now down to item number 7b, which is a public opinion council action or request by Fairfax County Board of Supervisors by Franklin M. Roberts, agent for a special use permit to allow the Health Department Laboratory at 103108 in Hall, Bell, Willard, Belly. Has this been properly advertised? Staff report, please. Thank you. Fairfax County Board of Supervisors. Thank you. Proposes to relocate the County Health Department's pathology lab from its current location at 10777 Main Street, which is Kelly Square office condominiums, to the former Bell Willard School, which is located at 10310 Layton Hall Drive. To make that move requires a special use permit to allow a government use in the R3 district, the site of the proposed health facility is on the aerial photograph surrounded in yellow. on the aerial photograph surrounded in yellow. And at the bottom of that photograph, you'll see Layton Hall Drive at the far west, or at the far east side, which is to the right, far right corner is a little piece of old Lee highway. And you see buildings to the west. Which is a light and hall apartments and buildings to the north, which is the city, police station, the new building. And then to the east, the existing health department facility, which would remain. The land use request is a special use permit for government use in the R3 district. The site supports an existing building of 14,000 square feet, which is proposed to be used as office and labs, and to have 26 employees total operating between the hours of 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. Monday through Friday. The site design would meet regulations or exceed for tree canopy, open space, buffering, and would continue the uses that are supported in the comprehensive plan, the comprehensive plan calls for institutional uses as exists today. The site plan on the overhead or on the screen shows the site surrounded in red and again with late and haul apartments on the left, the health department facilities on the right, and the police station to the north, or on the top of the screen. The building footprint and the architecture proposed to remain the same, and then additional building improvements in order to accommodate the new facility would include new exterior windows, doors and a new roof. On the drawing shows elevations of the building as it would exist after replacement of the windows and doors. of the windows and doors. 62 vehicle trips expected during peak hours and by comparison the previous school use would have been 117 and medical office building would be 264. So substantially less parking has been determined to have a 29 space requirement and 33 spaces proposed. Staff recommends approval with one condition, and that is, there be an emergency accessesment provided across the driveway aisles between our new police station and Fairfax County Health Department lab site. With one more note, I would conclude the staff presentation. And that note is that we got a call today from John Cleaver, who said he was the head trustee of the Northern Virginia Menonite Church and Merle Coons, who was the other trustee of the church, at 3278, Old Lee Highway. They just called and asked that we announce that they have no opposition to the application. Any questions or staff? Miss Lyne? and ask that we announce that they have no opposition to the application. Any questions or staff? Ms. Lyon. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I do have, why are we wanting to put an access between Bell Willard and the police station for the fire? Why wouldn't they just come in late in the hall, drive? I can't say why. This is the request as I understand the request of the police department as an emergency access. Okay. Just so they can use it to get it in and out. I think it's only for emergency access to to I think the plan shows something like a ballard to normally be in place. Yes, okay. Good question. Thank you. When the police department was redesigned and the new building was constructed, we took out the second entrance on the old Lee Highway. So there's only the single driveway entrance now and installed a back gate emergency access into the parking lot of this proposed facility so that any event the traffic is tied up on old Lee highway. We have another way to get out in an emergency out and we've used it a couple times but it's used really only sparingly. The gates normally closed and locked so it has to be unlocked and open for officers to use it. Okay. Thank you for that but there's a lot of traffic that I don't really have. Okay, and let me then ask you a couple of questions about the average traffic going in out. So they're going to keep the main driveway that they're using there now at the Bell Willard, is that right? Yes. Okay, and so there are 15, you're saying that it's going to increase 62 vehicle trips, because the Willard Center has folks that go in and out. And then the Bell Willard will increase it to 62? Well, the existing building, the Bell Willard has been used as office, so this wouldn't really be an increase over the most recent use, but the total use of that building of 62. So 62 more than the front building that's on the corner. So how much is the use right now? I mean, how many trips in a month? Probably slightly more than that as an office building, because as an office building, it holds a lot more employees than the health lab does. Since it's going to be a medical facility and there's apartments right next door and some things, how are we making sure that everything is locked up and secure? That there's not really any way for folks to get anything that might be in that laboratory. How are we making that a safe locked up spot? We have not addressed that. We leave that to the health department. Okay, but is that through the county checks that or how do we don't manage that at all? Well, no, we don't. I mean, as this is proposed with the staff recommendation, we have not suggested that we do some sort of check on the health department. Okay, well, I'm wondering if we, well, I'm not saying a check on that, but is there, you know, the building needs to be a little, I think, differently secured that it is now in my mind since there'll be different types of chemicals, medications and possible drugs and blood samples and those kinds of things going on in this facility, is that right? Yes. Okay, so are we gonna work in tandem with the health department to make sure that everything is status quo for a building like that here in the city. How do they do that? There has been discussion and we have expressed a concern and they have told us that they will. This is right next to, you know, a large apartment complex and very close to neighborhoods. And so, you know, I think, like, Fairfax Hospital, of course, they have laboratories and things, and they have their security that they use. Are we going to be, are we going to have the same scrutiny here in the city that the county has on other facilities around the area? I guess that's what I'm asking. I have a concern about that. I don't, we have not proposed a condition. Okay. I don't we have not proposed a condition. Okay, but what you're pointing out makes sense I understand and one it would make sense to have one. Okay, that would be great. And then the second couple things to follow on that is when you have the folks are there going to be a times that people can be picking up and dropping off the samples. We've been told that the pickup and drop off comes out about one per hour during the day. And where will that be? Where will those be? Is there going to be a certain door? You see what I'm asking? I think everything is that the main main door which what I'm sorry. Wrong. No. Sorry. That's okay. Right there. The front of the building. Okay. So can I need to explain it to me. Sorry. I really need to kind of understand because they're going to reface Bellwollard. I understand is that right? They're kind of refacing the Bellwollard. So I guess I need to really see. The entrance that's between the two buildings would remain generally as it is a circular drive around the front with parking along that and then a parking lot between the building and the police station. So with a front door and sidewalk along that circular drive. And so I think what they seem to be proposing is all deliveries, all entrances from in the front door. From the front door. From the front door. Okay, then I have another question. Thank you for that. On the back end, you know, this is kind of in a gully. If you, I used to run along the back side of that, this is kind of in a gully. If you, if you, I used to run along the back side of that, it was kind of in a gully. So, and then there's a trailer attached to the front part of the side of the building too. Now, is that trailer going to be removed? Yes. Okay. And are they going to extend the building to where that trailer would have, would have used, is now? No. No. So it's going to be the just the footprint of the bell will it? Okay. So on the backside of that building there are a lot of windows. Are they going to be keeping those windows or are they going to close those down? What are they doing with that? That would be the West Facing Elevation. And yes, you can see in the West facing elevation. A lot of wind is retained. Okay, how many square feet is this building? 14,000. Okay, okay. So can we, can you get back to us on that, on the piece about the safety, because I am concerned about any breaking in, and you know, that whole environment there is, it's not well lit. I guess I want to know about the lighting of that building also. Can you, do you have anything on the lighting? I think they submitted something on it but nothing. So you're going to have clothes in the parking lot? I guess I'm wondering how you're going to have that place lit in. Will it be lit 24 hours or you know during nighttime nighttime 20 you know from like seven o'clock dark to to light again are we going to have the lights on around will they be I wonder about those things to the light the light we've not got into that level of detail again Okay, so I guess I need to understand here then. We're just approved then. What are we really approving? We don't have all that just the land use. Yes, that right that they can use for. The missing site plan follow. Okay, and then you'll come back to us then about all these other details, is that? No, the typically the site plan is handled administratively according to whatever direction City Council has given at the time of the land use case now. Okay, so let me talk then I do want to go back to the lights on the building. Well, there would be some kind of spotlight on the building that will set off like in my yard. If someone walks through my yard, then a light goes on the building. That kind of thing. That's level detail that has not been presented and it would normally be presented to site plan and if it's something that you want to see then you can make that a condition of approval now okay all right that would be great you could add that to the check on that with my council members I'm not trying to be real picky here but I am trying to make sure that I mean I think what they're going to do to this building if I'm correct if I understand it correctly that they are going to make it a better looking building. No question, but what they're going to be doing in that building, and I appreciate that we have the health services at the Willard Center now, and they're going to be moving some of those to this building. I just want to make sure that we're upgrading any of our safety, our lighting, make sure the parking lot looks great that we have enough parking for that area. And that we really have taken good notice to a new building, to a renovated building here in the city. Like we have other buildings. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Mrs. Warner. I just saw it. It's a lot of, to tag on to Miss Lyons remarks from what the summary application, though, it says that they're going to be testing air, testing water samples. So there's not going to be an animal tissue for rabies. So it's not that there is from this report, it doesn't look to be as if they're going to be doing human samples blood, that sort of thing. So the amount of security, it might be a less, need to be a less secure building because they're not, you know, of what they're testing. So, you know, you might not have to have too much as much as you might have to. That's not getting the debate back and forth. Thank you. This is the chance to ask questions and staff. If I could just follow up on that, though, just make sure I understand. In the listing of uses, it listed things like substance abuse and things like that. Well, this be a facility that you're understanding where people actually will come in and be tested, or is this a facility where samples are taken somewhere else and tested here? We've been told that the samples would be taken somewhere else and sent here for testing. Okay. Any other questions or staff? I don't know. I don't want to hear. If not, why don't we, well, open up the public hearing. Thank you. Would the applicant, I don't know if the applicant, present, please, if you'd like to address the council. Good evening. Good evening, honorable Mayor and the members of the City Council. Many Frank Roberts on the project manager with Fairfax County. For this project, also, I'd like to identify a Mary Kitch and the lab, and Dan Schubert, our architect from architecture incorporated. I have provided some brief description, I think. The plan staff did a very good report with the details about the traffic and everything like that. Maybang clear up some of the more operational details that you have questions on about the design. There's one also first clarified that the, it's currently, the health department lies currently located on Main Street in the Kelly Square office condominiums. The associated adjacent building at the proposed side is the Joseph Wollard Health Center, which is totally separate function with the exception of some samples that may come from there for testing to the lab. So it's an independent somewhat independent health department facility there. The pictures up there, but that's fine. It's to east at the intersection of a late hall and Old Lee Highway. So that's somewhat independent facility. Like I said, the current facility is located at Kelly Square. It's in a privately owned lease space. The county lease is from private owner. It's on the third floor of a three-story office building. It's really not as conducive to the laboratory use as it could be. As this site would be, since it would be totally owned, operated, maintained by the county, currently the facility that's in place at Kelly Square, mechanical and other critical building systems are in the responsibility of the landlord and really are out of the control of the end user, which have more particular requirements for a conditioned air and backup power, for instance. For the services rendered, yes, we do the air and water testing of they do, the public wells, public water systems, creeks, dandruff, one, possibly as well, was sent there that was previously discussed. Yes there is as communicable disease testing for instance tuberculosis. There's also drug testing. There's also rabies testing if there's an instance of an animal that the samples are brought there to the lab and tested there at the lab. So it's pretty wide range between environmental clinical and some other types of tests, but in essence it's testing. That occurs there. Really no samples. No samples are taken from the public. The public doesn't come there. There's centers distributed throughout the county, the city. Just ring for size of this lab lab service more than just the county serves the greater or more than northern Virginia area. Jason County's city's towns as well. So it's really shared somewhat of a shared facility as well. But as far as those services rendered, there's demonstrated need for the project, like I said, the existing building's old. Really we need to provide some upgrades to the facility and rather than put those into a lease facility that really is not going to satisfy the needs of the laboratory currently and into the future because we have no control of the building systems. Fortunately, we are able to obtain this property from the school board when they moved in their new administrative office. So there's an opportunity for the county to obtain a property that would be owned and maintained by us. We could set it up. Exactly the way we needed for the lab use for now and to the future. Said the staff touched on that scope of the project, the first floor of the building is 12,000 square feet. That will consist of laboratory space, support space and office space. The basement is approximately 2,000 square feet and that's primarily for supporting utilities spaces down there. Yes, the trailer will go. There's a shed out back that will go. We're removing a lot of the impervious surface in the reconfiguration of some of the parking lot as well as connecting trails to the public right away, which we really don't want the public to access the back of the facility. So we're taking out a lot of the pavement as well to reduce our impervious surface and reduce our runoff so that it's pre our development levels. Um, and we've, you know, we gr of staff that yes, the, um, regards comprehensive time, comprehensive plan. It's in harmony and the plant with the plan in the sense that it's institutional use, uh, proposed and the plan calls for institutional use for this property as well as the two adjacent properties with the police station that Joseph Waller Center. We've worked extensively with the zoning in particular to identify areas where the as well as public works and we've had several work sessions with folks with the city to identify areas that we can improve the site to meet more of the zoning ordinance requirements. It's not completely up to conformance, but we've taken out of non-conformance a lot of areas and reduced a lot of the non-conformities, such as aisle widths, setbacks, parking spaces, we've added additional interior and extra parking lot landscaping to meet code, additional trees for canopy. We've put the address concerns with the neighbors. With the residential, there's transitional screen and required. We've put that there as well. So there's numerous areas that we've upgraded the site as well, making conjunction and teamwork effort with the city staff. And in particular with security, particularly about security, we are every intention to make the security, security, security system that will address the needs and requirements for the facility. We're not at that level of detail yet, staff's correct. Even though the special use program really deals with the land use, theoretically there's an opportunity for us to continue to work with staff to address and electronic security and monitoring systems that will address those concerns. We are, yes, replacing all the, pretty much I believe all the windows in the facility from if nothing else, an energy efficiency issue and building envelope to tighten the building envelope up. But pretty much all of them went as well remain in kind. We've met with the, lives of historical representative for the city staff because we know that we will have to go to the board of architecture review as well. So we met with them, walked through the facility, identified things that would like to be retained possibly by the city. as well. So we met with them while the facility identified things that would like to be retained possibly by the by the city. But we there's also certain you know we can't really do a significant amount to the exterior of the building because I understand that B.A.R. standpoint they may not want a lot of exterior upgrades or modernization. So in that keeping and working with the city staff, we've identified some critical things that have to remain such as the old bellwillard sign on the awning, the same pattern of the windows. The windows will be upgraded, but the pattern will remain, the glass block will remain in place. It's in good condition. so we can keep all that. But we've, I think we've worked very close with staff to try to address a lot of those issues, and a lot of those issues yet have to be addressed as we work through the design phase. So we've thought off going into the final construction documents, knowing that we have to come to you and get special use of permit through. But there's further opportunities for us through the review of the documents of permitting phase to more adequately address that. And we're perfectly willing to do what it takes to assure city staff and the council here that it will be a probably designed secure facility. Thank you. will be a probably designed secure facility. Thank you. I'll just make an editorial comment. Yes, I don't. Any improvements you can make to the building. I don't know what was deemed historical on that property, but any improvements you can make, I would encourage you to go full speed ahead. So okay, there are any other questions of the applicant. If not, thank you very much. This is a public hearing. Nobody has previously signed up to address the City Council, but anybody would like to address the City Council on this item. Please. I'm Gary Perryman, one, one, zero, zero, eight, plus more drive. I don't want to see Magnorid on the issue here, but you're taking a very old building. You're going to upgrade it to make a laboratory out of it where you're carrying not only airborne pathogens, but blood pathogens into building. And once the city signs off of this tonight, they have no say so at it's up to the county. What guarantees are you're going to give the people, especially in the late and hall building that there aren't going to be airborne pathogens released into the air that some of the blood pathogens can't be released to the ground. You know, I'm sure these items have been looked at, but obviously the City Council hasn't got any idea on them because they don't even know what security measures are going to happen. And like I said, if you agree on this tonight, you're giving a blank check to somebody and hopes they're going to do it right without any kind of cover for the city to protect their own people. Thank you. Anybody else like to address the city council? Very normal cause of public hearing. I'll place it in the hands of the council. This cross. I move, City Council, approve the request of the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors by Franklin and Mara, it's agent for a special use permit is required by section 110512, Friend 2 and Brin of the City Code to allow a Health Department laboratory as a government of use at 10310 late in hall, L Willard building and further identified as tax map parcel 57202172 with the following condition. Providing emergency access easement between the police department and the Fairfax County Health Laboratories site. Second, moved by Miss Cross, second, and by Mr. Rasmussen, discussion. Mr. Mayor. Ms. Cross. I understand the concern that is expressed by Mrs. Lyon. However, this is just a site application and I know that the staff will be working very closely with the county in providing the necessary security measures of necessary lighting that are required with in the Kelly Building for many, many years. And without incident, so far as I'm aware. And I feel certain that we can count on our staff and the county staff to assure that all necessary measures will be taken. Any other comments? Mr. Miss other comments? Ms. Lyme? Thank you for that, Mrs. Cross. But I do want to emphasize to the staff that I'm hoping that they're also to make sure that, you know, all the air ducts, how they are, you know, all the anything that could possibly go along with the environment is checked into. I hope that I'm going to count on my staff to do that. And those are all my comments. Thank you for taking them up. Any other questions, comments? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion, signify by voting aye. Aye. Opposed? And it passed unanimously. Charging ahead, item number 7c, public hearing and the council action and request of Guadalupe Soto for approval of a special use permit to allow a home child care facility to modify the maximum lot coverage for surface driveway parking and vehicle storage areas. More than 25% surface driveway in the front yard in the RT R2 residential district on the premises known in 30604 Germantown Road. Is this one properly advertised? Yes. Staff report, please. Yes, sir. Honorable Mayor and members of the City Council, Guadalupe Soda, the applicant, is applying for a special use permit for a home childcare facility with up maximum of 12 children, and likewise a special exception to allow more than 25% surface driveway in the front yard area. The subject site is located on the northwestern side of Germantown Road. South of 66 is kind of to the northeast of Providence Elementary and is across the diagonal from Fairfax County property yard. Again, it is south of I-66 to the east of Providence Elementary and it's kind of a diagonal north of the Fairfax County property yard. The evaluation criteria is 110-366 for home child care facility parking requirements and 110-240A additional standards for child care uses. The application as President provides for the following requirements. All parking and drop-off spaces associated both with the residential use and with the proposed childcare use, with adequate turnaround areas so that cars are not forced to back out into Germantown Road, along with the required outdoor play space of one 100 square feet per each child which would equate to 1200 square feet. The proposed driveway, the applicant came in for, and it was deferred last time if I can refer to council's memory, to give the applicant a chance to look at alternative ways to arrange parking in a manner so that the vehicles had adequate turnaround space and could pull out frontwards on the Durban Town Road. What we see here is one, two, three spaces for drop off, which is 1 per 5 children is required. So 12 kids requires 3 drop off spaces, 1 employee space, and the applicant will be limited to vehicles parked in the garage. They don't have to make use of the garage. Now the special exception would be for an increase in the surface area in the front yard to 1,300 square feet and given the front yard area of around 4,100 square feet, right of the thousands is permitted by right. So it's around 300 square feet increase so that cars have enough room to maneuver pulling out and then pulling out in the German town in a front facet of sort of backing out. The play area will be along the rear and staff has proposed conditions that would ensure the certainty of the neighborhood. Staff does recommend approval, the special use permit, special exception, subject to the conditions contained in the staff report relating to the maximum number of children, the maximum number of employees. And both of those, 12 is the maximum that the co-premise for. She could have in very more employees, however, she cannot provide parking, therefore, it would be herself a one employee maximum. It would be relating to the driveway plan that's present in front of you. It would require residential parking be secured in the garage so that it is provided there's a requirement for two spaces. That vehicular circulation does take place through letters and notices to the parents dropping off kids and by the placement of a sign. Advising them and instructing them that they are to back, of course, only on the property so they can pull out into Germantown Road, not back out onto it. Provide the outdoor play space, 1200 square feet is required. To maintain the residential character of the site, new major changes to the front of the facade of the building or to the rear or the side since it is surrounded on three sides by residential. And it all required permits and license both to the city and the state are obtained and and and count and that the expiration of the permit be one year to give council a chance to and staff to review any safety concerns or or general concerns relating to the since it is a new use. And with that staff will take any questions you have? Stressed most. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Do I understand correctly that this business is already in operation? Yes. Do we know for how long? I don't have the exact date. I know since the application came in shortly before the application, so to imagine around two and a half to three months, I believe it came in through a violation. Is how it came as tax attention? Would you repeat that part? It came through a violation. She had a banner signing above the front door. That's how it came as tax attention. Secondly, there is already a daycare facility. I'm a real decor. Are these two because of the increased traffic going to cause a problem? The staff doesn't see that there would be a problem with the proposed 51 trip ins per day, estimated with the number drop off in the one employee. Even though the probably people coming into Marilt Acc court at the same time for the same purpose. Yes. Thank you. Mr. Mayor. Mr. Cranfield and then Ms. Lign. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I might start off directly on this toward Mr. Assistant. Over the last number of years we've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe even millions of dollars in improving our technology here in the city so that if you command and you pull a permit in one department, it kicks off a trigger in another department that okay, I got this permit, I need this approval process before they can operate. I'm confused as to how the issue to business license, but this application requires a special use permit. That seems backwards to me. It seems like that should, they never ever should have been able to receive a business license until they started through the process and got their special use permit approved, then there is issue to business license. So, and we don't have to have an answer tonight, but I would hope that this is something that we get a handle on because I thought that some of these problems, this problem in particular was something that this new panimation or whichever system we're using now was supposed to take care of that. I mean, I just, I don't get it. I don't like being put into position where this body is being asked to approve something when they've knowingly been an operation in an violation of City Code. We do have those interrelationships established and I need to research this particular case to find out specifically what did happen. We do get notifications of the commissioner's office and we work back and forth to try to cross-level on these issues. And so I'll find out what happened in this case. Can I come up with? You can, I'm not done. Oh, okay, all right. I'll yield the floor. Mr. Smaslin. I think we're about to take up another one of these daycare cases, but we might find it's the same problem. So you've got to research that one too. Other than denying this tonight we have really no other course of action until to dequeen this off. I mean I'm sure that she runs a very fine program but you know we're kind of coming in here and it's easier to beg for forgiveness and it is to seek permission and I don't like that. And there's really, based on current code, there's not a whole lot we can do about that. Is that basically what I understand? With the welcome that you were exactly correct. It's disappointing. I'll have some further comments for the applicant. But I hope that we get an answer on this one before when we start dealing with some of these others. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Any other questions to staff? Just die. Mr. Mayor, I'm sorry. Just slide. Did this particular applicant have a business license before and in other residents? I don't think so. You'd have to ask her. I don't have any record of that. Okay, and do we have any guidelines for hours of operation on child care? Take care. After the deferred to the deputy's Zongi minister, he actually helped direct the code if monkey would be wanted. Okay, you can we could probably look that up at your leisure, I guess, and then Mr. Mayor, I'll wait for the answer for we can continue with that. If I could get you to put up the slide on the parking, on the driveway situation, I know we're all familiar with the unfortunate fatality that took place in this section of the road out on Germantown Road. And I think at least the dialogue and the discussion in the community and those involved was this is sort of a blind turn with an awful lot of traffic going extremely fast. And what worries me and I know this was deferred to try to work out the parking situation, but I'm trying to get a feel for off of this diagram. How those spaces would actually work. I think the worst thing that could happen is for someone to back out on that road. The other concern is if multiple cars are coming in there, you've got one employee that's going to use, I assume, one of those four spaces, which means there's only three for drop off. And if cars have to stop suddenly around that curve going at the speeds we know they do. That concerns me, but is there enough space and it's hard to visualize this in 1,300 square feet, and the percentage of the total property doesn't mean anything to me. I'm more concerned about if more than three cars pile up in that area, or even the three cars, because I'm assuming that the four space you can't get into if somebody's in space number three there, if I'm reading that right. Am I understanding that correctly? If somebody is in space number three there, if I'm reading that right, am I- am I understanding that correctly? The- there's really three spaces and the fourth, I assume, would be the employee would come in first, park their car, and then the other three would be for parents dropping their kids off. Yes, that's correct. I guess the question I have, and I'm very familiar with this location, very familiar with the- the traffic pattern out on the road. And obviously, as I said, the fatality that took place there, is it really staff's opinion that this is a safe configuration with the up to 12 kids, which means there's a potential of more than three people trying to get in and out of there. I used daycare and child care facilities once in my life as well with our young kids and everybody always seems to comment about the same time and leave it the same time. Is it the conclusion of staff that that location on that road that this would be adequate to protect those? That's just the parents but the other people using the roads? Yes, I won't be looking at it and I'll let Mr. Summers follow up on me. Is the design of the applicant presented was very similar to what the commercial standards are for parking a lot layout. As you pointed out, one employee space where the blue dot is, and then the other three here. What you end up with is a 16 and a half foot parking space. We allow for overhang, which would be in this area here, along with what would be normally 23 feet for back out in a parking lot because you have a wall of cars would have two feet of overhang. So the standards of what the wheelbase uses is very similar if not equal to what a commercial parking lot design would be. But we're talking about a residential home, not a commercial parking lot, that doesn't have the ability to go into internal parking lot and turn and move and make U-turns and back in and back out. We're talking about a residential piece of property that is right on Germantown Road. So that concerned me if what you've done is you've sort of plugged it into these formulas and comparing it to a commercial parking lot because this couldn't be farther from that in the real world. Is that how you all came to the conclusion that this works? What we were looking at is adequate turnaround space so the cars wouldn't be back and out and the second concern and staff did deal with the applicant. In the event that three parents do arrive at the same time, which she said is highly unlikely, typically doesn't happen. However, when three do arrive, there would be a stacking wait, you know, as a wait time if one's leaving perhaps coming out for another one to enter the site. There would be a waiting concern associated with that. There would be a concern, is that what you're saying? Yes, of course, cars waiting to turn in. Okay. Okay. Okay. Mr. Swinter. Is there any way that we could put in that, you know, that some kids would be dropped off at 6.30 and some would be dropped off at 6.00, you know, at 7 o'clock and 7.45 so that there, that there, it was more organized and almost timing. That you have to have your child there by 7am. Don't come early, don't come late because there has to be a flow of traffic. And likewise, on the other end of the day, you'd think that it would be 10 hours later or 8 hours later, whatever. That there might be, you know, this is when you need to pick your child up. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just a thought. Did you, Mr. Mayor, to follow up on Ms. Lyon's question. If you remember, just over a year ago, we adopted this revised child coordinates. It was about the time you act in the lifetime fitness child care request. I believe this is the first in-home child care you've heard under this new ordinance. At that time, we had about six months of discussion between staffs working on it, researching adjacent ordinances, working with Louise Armantage here in the city, as well as county staff, and how they implement their program. And the discussion on the relation to the timing or the limitation of timing on the hours was that if we, by ordinance, restricted the amount of time that these could be open we might impinge upon emergency service providers and other off-hour people and limit their ability to get child care inadvertently. So it was decided that we would write a fairly strict criteria about which these could operate, but not do hours and let that be a function of the council in a case-by-case basis. So that if you felt it was necessary to limit the hours you could through a condition, we were more worried about site design, function, and having a quality program, but not over impacting the neighborhoods. And that's how we categorized them less than five or less than five or more than five in a home. For more than 12, you can't be at home, you have to be at center. So the answer to no, we don't limit the hours. It's that council's discretion based on the case by case basis. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions or staff? Hearing none, thank you. We'll open up the public hearing and invite the applicant to address the council. Is the applicant present? No? Yes? Yes? I'm sorry. I need to add a little bit. I live in 36, zero for the armadillo. I was listening to you make some chicken mischievous. I come to my county permit from 2004. One year I have the license instead. The license I took in March, the license instead. Before I was taken in the kids in Chantilly, some kids come in from Chantilly for. I can still take care of my day care. And if I could, I think the question, and I think what I understood you to say is that you had the business in the county and a permanent county then moved into the city. When did you actually open up the childcare facility in the city? Was it right after you moved into the house? not the childcare facility in the city? Was it right after you moved into the house? I opened the last year in January or March. I don't know exactly. A year ago or so? Yes, a year. Because in this time I took the license, I say, when I took the license, I feel very sure, for open the daycare get in my house. Okay. Any questions of the applicant? Mr. Mayor. This is Lyon. I do have some questions, and thank you so much for coming this evening, and I'm sure this is a lot of scary for you to be doing. I just have a couple of questions. You know, I really respect folks that take really good care of our children. And how many hours that most of the children come to your home? For example, coming one seven o'clock in the morning. Okay. The other one coming seven-tory. The other one is seven-tifty. The most kids coming between nine to ten-tentory because some moms, they are working in the germany, some of them are studying Nova, you know, they have different sketch. But in this era, I was working in this in my daycare. Never they used to meet two, three parents together because they used to come in. They asked me how was the kids. I have to answer this question and have to say bye because they know because we used to do like a family with the parents in middle. They understand me, they understand the German role is busy. And that's the result. I like how Mr. Jason planning the back, they have to come out parking from the front. That's good, good idea because we can try no accidents from the parents and the front. That's good, good idea because we can't try no accidents from the parents and the kids too. And for me too, I can be very, very happy with the kids and the parents too. Okay. When you moved into the city, did you realize that you would need to have a business license and you have to ask for special use to be able to do this. Did you understand about having to do that? Yeah. When, because the new from I will, from I got my county permit, because the county, when I moved from Chantilly, Perfaxi was saying me the new permit for 2006. In March, between January and February, I took my I took the class for a stay license. In this time, Perfaxi, when I come in here, they tell me you have to take the special permit for opening your deck. Okay. That's the reason I come in the last year and I took my business license from the court and I try to do everything right. That's the reason Mr. Jackson, he will tell me how I have to do for this permit, special permit for Chalka. Okay. And right now, how many children do you have that you're taking care of? Yeah. Before I have seven, now it's living two kids. You have two children? Yeah. But now I want to work with my market because you know, I have the license to this for 12 kids. I am taking the CDA class because I want to be ready for taking the kids. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I have no more questions. Any other questions in the out? Okay. Very none. Thank you very much. Nobody has previously signed up to address the council on this item when anybody like to address the City Council. Yes. Thank you. Forgive us your name and address for the record, please. My name is Richard Bantan. I live at 10, 816, the State Court, and it's in the French Minister of Woods Neighborhood. I'm actually within walking distance of Guadalupe's status business. And I just wanted to come because I'm actually parent and I have a two-year-old daughter that's been going with her for about a year. And I regularly, when I don't walk, if the weather's good, we'll walk and come there that way. But I do pull into the driveway and pull out. And I haven't had any problems with not being able to back out and turn around so that I can exit normally straight onto a Germantown Road. And I just wanted to come tonight because her daycare center is an asset to the community. And my daughter is bilingual because my wife is a native Spanish speaker and it's a very nice environment to have. I just wanted to give my support to the center. If you have any questions, I'd be glad to answer them. Thank you. Okay. Would anybody else like to address the City Council? Mr. O'Dell. I'm going to get that clock. Still showing all the rates. Go ahead, Mr. Adele. I have a call. I have a call. I have a call. It's probably a good idea to allow these additional parking spaces so that more customers can use them rather than park on nearby streets thus by using them promoting the safety of small children. You might want to attach a condition that upon ceasing to operate as a daycare center, the excess parking should be restored to a design complying with the usual otherwise binding zoning requirements assuming that by then the applicant can be presumed to have earned enough money to pay for the removal. And if the applicant or homeowner sells the home, the sales contract must disclose the requirement to remove the parking spaces, the excess ones, unless of course the new buyer intends to operate essentially the same or same kind of business. Thank you. Anybody else like to address the City Council on this side? I would like to address the City Council on this item. Yes, sir. Hi, Gary Curryman again. I brought this up at the last council meeting and I wanted to reiterate it tonight. Nowhere in the city is there a more dangerous place to put a daycare. In the curb, a German town road with the speed that most people drive and I'm not excusing the speed they drive. When you get into wet, snow, or even some of the sunny days with people pulling in and out of there, there are going to be people stopping on Germantown Road to get in. There are people coming from the other direction that are going to have to stop and wait for traffic to clear. That is a highly traveled road during the working days end and beginning to allow that and to have people trying to pull off and take you know Turn in on that corner where it sits is very dangerous There's been quite a few accidents on Germantown Road already The accident you speak of is a friend of mine that's had he's had three or four cars in the last two years run into his yard because Of course, there's no place to go if you leave the road. So I would say you know for the cities sake and safety sake that this should be not and by the way I don't have anything against daycare as the lady across the street from me has one runs it in our neighborhood and it's fine. It's just that place that location is exceedingly dangerous and I think we're going to create a big problem if we allow that to happen. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else like to address the City Council on this item? Hearing none, we'll close the public hearing. Place it in the hands of the Council. Mr. Mayor. Ms. Lyon. I move that the City Council approve the request of Guadalupe so to own your first special use permit to allow a home child care facility with after 12 children in the R2 residential district on the premises known as A30604. German town road and more particularly described as tax map parcel 47-30801 003 subject to the following conditions. One, the applicant may care for a maximum of 12 children, two, no more than one employee exclusive of the applicant shall be permitted. The drive-well should be modified in general conformance of the plan dated January 22, 2008, prior to the issuance of any permits. Four, the garage shall be maintained for parking of two automobiles for the residential use, and the residential use shall be limited to a maximum of two vehicles on the premises. Five, the applicant shall instruct all drop off drivers and employees to turn around before exiting the property to prevent cars backing out onto the German town road, and the applicant shall install a sign that is no more than two square feet in size, and 30 inches in height, and starting drivers not to back out on German town road. No other sign is pertaining to child care business or any other business shall be permitted on the premises. The outdoor play space shall be located no far closer than 12 feet to any lot line and shall be enclosed with a six foot tall board on board screen fence with a dense evergreen row of planting between the fence and the property line and shall not be used for playing prior to 8 a.m. 7. There should be no modifications to the exterior of the building or to the site which detract from the residential character of the site. 8. All required state and local permits and licenses shall be maintained at all times. And 9. The special use permit shall be valid only for the applicant. Shall not be transferable to any other person and shall expire 12 months from the date of approval. Moved by Mrs. Lyon, seconded by Mrs. Winner, any discussion? Mr. Mayor, I understand the concern about Germantown Road, and I really appreciate Mr. Paramon bringing it up and bringing to our attention. And I think that caution has been heard. But I do believe that good child cares in the city of Fairfax are what we need. And I really approve of this chalk or center here on German town road. Thank you. Any other discussion, Mr. Rasmussen? Thank you, Mr. Mayor. This is really a troubling application. The standpoint that I know people are in desperate need of daycare, and from all indications this person is, like you've heard from at least one person at a good daycare provider and that's something we need to support. On the other hand this is a very busy somewhat dangerous place to be walking or driving or even driving and to have 12 children that's a large daycare operation. I think most of the in-home ones that we've had over the years are smaller than 12. And that gets to the point of the difficulty of cars going in and out of the size and dropping off and picking up children. I would suggest maybe we look at reducing the number of children to see how it works. This applicant has to come back in a year as I recall it. Not mistaken. For a renewal. And maybe it would be better to start out a little bit smaller and see what, and see whether it is completely safe. I'm willing to, so I would amend this application to reduce from 12 to 6. Let's see if we can get a second. Is there a second? Mr. Secretary, I'm not inclined to support it, but I'll second it for the purpose of discussion. I don't do that. I mean, I'll just tell you, I would rather we do. Well, Mr. Mayor, I don't know that you really want me to do this. I've got a number of issues with this application, not that I'm not trying to support business. Let me just, just to the right. Do we have, you did second end? Is that correct? Okay. So the motion has been made in second end to reduce it from, I believe, 12 to 6. And that will be the motion now that will be debating. Mr. Esmer, did you have, I think I've already explained why I'm doing this. I'm just concerned about the safety aspect of this. I'm also a little bit concerned that we've had a business operating that hasn't been fully permitted and approved and we need to be extra careful. It's one thing to have a home business where an attorney or a software engineer is working out of their house and we don't find out about it. That who cares? But when the city finds out that it has a day care operation operating, we need to be really certain that everything is well in place to protect both the children and the provider. Mr. Mayor. Let me see. Did the seconder have any comments or? Please. I'm going to try to just do the other time. I have a problem with my point of focus. I'm going to have to do it with some data. This is that one. It is. He missed it so with or. I'm confused as to why we have an application before us tonight for reduction in the amount of parking. They can only have up to 25% of the lot dedicated toward parking. They have 33 and a half percent, so they're looking to be approved when, normally, they wouldn't be. We have inspectors when these things are poured that have to go out and look at these things. I'm just confused as to how we miss this. I'm confused as to how we allowed them to... She stood here tonight and said she knew she needed a special use permit. But yet she got her business license and has been operating since that time. I would be willing to allow her to operate with six people and they could back to us in six months, not a year. But I've got to tell you, I'm looking forward to the discussion on your end, Mr. Sissen, is why this got as far along as it did and to make sure that we're not going to deal with this in other cases. I mean, otherwise, what are we paying staff for? You're talking about budget concerns. I will go that far, but I'm a little frustrated, Mr. Sissman. This is embarrassing to the council that this shouldn't, and it's an embarrassment to the woman that's sitting here tonight because she's been put in a difficult position that she never should have been placed in because she should have been walked through the process to make sure that this didn't happen to her. If I could, let me just ask a point of information. Do you know how many kids are in the program right now? Do you know is it all the way up at the 12 or is it? If I could get an answer from staff, could you? No, it's below 12. I think she mentioned that there were two currently. Two? I believe that's what she mentioned, yes. Okay. So the application is to go up to 12, but currently there's two. Yeah, it would be from a range of five to 12, five in fewer or a by-right use determined by the state. And it would be from five to 12. Okay. Thank you. Mrs. Lyne. Mr. Mayor, first I'd like to argue here just a hair with Mr. Silver, I mean Mr. Greenfield, in that I don't feel that we should be putting the applicant between the staff and the council. I don't want the applicant to suffer, and I know you don't either, but I would like to make that a statement. But the other thing is, is I'm hoping that Mr. Rasmussen in the spirit of negotiation would consider eight people in his motion. And I say that because that, you know, brings us back down from 12 to eight. And I know, I realize this is a livelihood. And it would allow more folks, and not to the top 12, but at least, you know, her to have eight children in her care. And I think we can come back within a year to check out how the eight are doing and how the traffic is doing. But that shows that we are in fair conscious trying to help her business and the children that she may be caring for to have a place to go. And that within a year we can then check to make sure that the traffic is all right and there hasn't been very many accidents. When I think of daycare centers and I think of home daycares, I'm not sure you can ever say where there is going to be one. There's traffic everywhere in the city of Fairfax. And yes, some roads are a little more traveled. But I do believe that this is a daycare home and that the children's lives are cared for here. And their safety is what they're taking care of as well as their parents will be taking care of it. So I believe we need to pass this or approve this motion with eight children if we could agree to it and move on to our next subject. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Any other discussion? Mr. Asma, I'd be really demotify my motion to aid. Thank you, Ms. Let me, so I could, let me see if the seconder would agree to that. Yes or no? Okay, so then we'll make that a friendly amendment in part of the motion that's been moved by Mr. Rasmussen, seconded by Mr. Greenfield. That would go up to eight children. Any other comments? Very none all in favor of the, signify by voting aye. Aye. Opposed? And it passed unanimously. We're now going to agenda item number 7D. Mr. Mayor. Sorry. We have the second. Second. I'm with you. Okay, this is the second one. Mr. Restmessen. Okay. No, I don't. Okay, this is the second one. Mr. Restmessen. Okay. No, I don't. Oh, okay. Mrs. Lyme. I'm going to say, Council, the attached for the resolution to approve the request of Guadalupe Soda owner for a special exception pursuant to City Code Section 111-488 to modify the maximum lot coverage for surface driveway parking in vehicle storage area in the R2 residential district permit more than 25% surface-based driveway in the front yard to a maximum of 1300 square feet on the premises known as 304 German town road and more particularly as tax map parcel 47 dash 3 dash 8 dash I mean-08-01-003. Move by Mrs. Lines seconded by Mr. Seventhorn and you discussion. I'll in favor of the motion signify by voting aye. Aye. Opposed and it passed unanimously. Mr. Mayor. Just a little housekeeping item. On the previous motion you approved the amendment to go from 12 to 8 and never took a vote on the underlining motion. So just for clarity, if you might take a vote on that. Okay. Okay. Let's take a vote on the underlining motion. All in favor of the motion, signify that by voting aye. Aye. Opposed and a passing animously. That finishes. Agenda item number 7c. We're now down to item number 70, which is a public hearing and council action and ordinance approved in the sale of certain real property, owned by the City of Fairfax and having a street address of 10435 North Street to Aspen Grove Investment LLC. Is this been properly advertised? Yes. Staff report? Very briefly, Mr. Mayor, members of Council. At the previous meeting, City Council introduced an ordinance to sell 10435 North Street, to Aspen Grove Investments LLC. This property is a property upon which the circus establishment sits. And the proposal is to sell the property to the current tenants of the property, Betsy and Mike Wartkowski, through their LLC, Aspen Grove Investments LLC, and we'll be happy to answer any questions. Questions, staff? Hearing none, we will open up the public hearing. First sign up is Beth. Beth, let me say on the public hearing too, because I know there's a number of folks that want to address a property that's abutting this. That opportunity, if you hear to talk about TT Rental specifically, will come up under items number nine, under item nine. This one, if you want to address specifically the situation of the property, which has the address of 10435, would be this opportunity. Mr. Rokowski? Good evening. My name is Betsy Rokkowski. My address is 10212 Aspen Willow Drive here in the City of Fairfax and I am a principal of Aspen Groveow Drive here in the city of Fairfax, and I am a principal of Aspen Grove Investments LLC. I want to thank the mayor and the council members tonight for giving me the opportunity to speak. I'm extremely excited about the prospect of owning my own commercial property instead of just renting. I would like to seek the council's approval to purchase 10435 North Street also referred to as the circuit property. My husband and I have negotiated with the city in good faith and have offered the full assessed value. I'd like to take a few minutes to share with you the contributions that circa has made to this community over the past six years. First was the renovation of an extremely dilapidated warehouse in which circa resides. Prior to my leasing the property, the building had no heat, no plumbing, and just one bare light bulb. It was filled with heat so trash, it was in great need of a fresh coat of paint and some TLC. The building, however, did have some really great bones, and I knew it would be a great place to house my store. So throughout early 2002, I spent endless hours in city hall, working with the staff in order to get the renovation plans just right, and to obtain the necessary permits to bring the neglected building up to code for retail use. And in the summer of 2002, CERCA opens its doors. And in fact, Mr. Mayor, I believe this was your very first ribbon cutting at CERCA. Oh, I know. CERCA is a true destination and a draw for those inside and outside our community. We've been positively featured in several newspapers, including the Fairfax Times and the Connection Newspaper. Circa has also been written about in the home section of the Washington Post on three different occasions. With this attention, we have acquired thousands of names for our mailing list and email list and have brought many new people to our city. In 2004, CERCA achieved the award of small retail business of the year. This was honored by the Central Fairfax Chamber of Commerce. Again, this was adding to the positive community through this recognition of CERCA. CERCA has been a good partner to the other Fairfax City businesses by utilizing their services such as National Security, Executive Press, Business Benefit Group, Studio Diana and of course many more. Circa has also been a good citizen by supporting many local charities such as facets in Northern Virginia Training Center, the Ronald McDonald House, home aid and the homeless animal rescue team and of course many more. Personally, I have volunteered my time to many city organizations. I currently sit on the board of historic Fairfax City Inc. I'm Secretary. I also chair destination Fairfax. And I am a city appointee on the economic development authority. Circa has expanded its business this year. We are now offering interior design services. And we plan to extend our hours once the new development opens. Finally, we plan to continue to contribute by making additional improvements to the property if we are successful in our purchase. Again, please request your favorable consideration and thank you for your time. Thank you. Okay, next signed up is Marby Tamaro. Good evening Mayor Letter and Members of the Council. My name is Marby Ternan Tamaro. I live on Park Lane Road 3627. Thank you for allowing me this opportunity to come before you and speak. I'm here to voice my support and to ask you to vote in favor of Miss Betty Ritalskis, bid to purchase the land and building where her business circa is located. I've been a customer of circa since she opened it in the summer of 2002. She took a building that had been an eye sore and turned it into a business with both co-signness and beauty. Now she is offering gardening and design seminars making circa a gathering place for the community. I've purchased many items in her shop for my own home and as gifts for others. I've introduced her business to several other people who live outside the city and I know they come in to shop at her business. Her shop carries many unique and beautiful products items perfect for weddings, birthdays and other special occasions. Items I cannot find at other businesses in Fairfax City or In other nearby communities. I really value being able to choose from unique items that are not available in the many chain stores in our area. Before I returned to Fairfax City 11 years ago, I lived in a community where I walked to many shops, businesses and restaurants from my home. They were all centrally located together, few of them being chains. As a concept of reinvigorating the downtown became a reality. And that's the open circa. I was very excited about the possibilities of having similar opportunities here in Fairfax City. I believe circa is crucial to the redevelopment of a downtown that will draw customers from both the city of Fairfax and from throughout North Virginia to a unique and historic location. Please vote to approve her purchase of this property. Thank you very much. Thank you. Nora Derrick. Hi, I'm Nora Derrick. I live at 3628 Heritage Lane. I've been a resident of the city for 12 years. And I just like to urge you to allow CERCA to purchase their property. I've been a customer since they opened in 2002. The thing I like best about CERCA is because it's a one of a kind store. There are so many chain stores in the area in the city and the county. And the fact that it's a retail establishment with unique items, you can't find elsewhere. Why not keep it? Not allowing her to purchase the property might force the issue for her to leave. And we really hate to see that. From what I've seen in the city, in the new downtown, and I don't know everything that's going in, a lot of them are chains, not just in the new downtown and I don't know everything that's going in. A lot of them are chains, not just in the stores but in the restaurants. And it's just a nice thing to have a one of a kind establishment. I've also seen circus support the community in many ways, seeing their donations at silent auctions for various things even recently as the chocolate festival. And so they're a great customer, they put on events for their customers, they're a great establishment, their customers can come to events at the store. And, you know, as it says in the front of this paper here, the city no longer needs to remain in ownership of the property. So why not let Circa, Circa purchase it. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Kate Atkinson? Oh my god, Kate Atkinson. Whatever works. What's your real name? My name is Jim Carney. I am Kate Fogarty-Akacin's law partner. She was here this evening, but the weather required her to go home and see her three children. So she has done that. She asked me to come and read a brief statement. If that's all right, I'll do that. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'll read this in the first person that she wrote it. I'm a resident of the city of Fairfax, also a business owner and partner in law firm in the city with office at 4085 chain bridge road. I might cite that her address in the city is 10632, Springmond Drive Fairfax. I am very supportive of Aspen Grove LLC. That's Ian Mike Rokowski purchasing the property located at 10 4 35 North Street, the current location of CERCA. The purchase is clearly financially beneficial to the city at a time when revenues are down and the city has an immediate qualified buyer willing to pay a fair market price for this property. It seems that's a no-brainer. CERCA and Betty Rattowski are well known to the entities to the city. It's an existing business. Turkey and Betty Rattowski are well known to the entities to the city. It's an existing business as noted in the staff report, the purchase of the property involves very few contingencies. If another buyer were to become involved, who knows what demands would be placed upon the city and what success they would have. At a time when the downtown area was under renovation, the circuit remained open and viable under very difficult circumstances. Circa and its owners are good neighbors here in the city of Fairfax. Betsy Rutkowski is a loyal and dedicated city resident. She is active in our community having served on various boards and committees. She is committed to the revitalization of downtown Fairfax and its success. Circa provides a needed service to the community. While the downtown renovation has attracted many restaurants, it's rather devoid of shopping and retail locations. Circuit track shoppers with its unique quality items. Having shopped there many times, I know I can find just the right gift. It's perfect when I'm short on time. I can shop without having to leave the city. Circuit fits well within our community. It is successful, it is a successful, attractive business, and I urge the council to approve the purchase of this property by asking Grove investments, LLC, Mike, and Betsy Redkowski. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Nobody else has previously signed up with anybody like to address the Council on the side, please. My name is Jeremy Gifford and I guess this property affects me more than almost anyone else here. I own TT Reynolds and actually wanted to support Betsy and her purchase. I'd probably more than almost anyone in this room outside of Betsy and her husband know what condition that building was in when she purchased it to say that it was a mess would be not using the proper terminology. It was a bad shape and she's been a great neighbor. The only thing that I have, I concerned with is obviously there's a water issue between the two properties and I don't know that that's addressed in the sales agreement. Truly doesn't matter to me how it gets addressed. I'd just like to be informed if it's going to affect me at all, obviously, as a restaurant needing to have water. I know there was an encouragement issue that was removed, but the water she's mainly concerned, and I'm sure that can be worked out. And just while you're here, I don't know who, Mr. Sissin, or I thought the systems were all separated. Is that correct now, or is the water still tied together? But once that is in the plans to be done. Correct. So that will be done. I believe that was started and then immediately stopped because of some easement issues there as well. I don't know what's the situation this way. They were doing some test holes. It didn't actually start the construction and test holes were hot. Okay. Okay. Great. Thanks. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else like to address the city council on this side? Mr. O'Dell. Your O'Dell, it is my, you're going to fix the clock for me please. Thank you. It's my pleasure to increase the amount of free advertising this business is receiving tonight. I have some questions. Does the applicant's rent or lease agreement, assuming it had one, give her first ride of refusal is the sale of the property for as was asserted by the lawyer for fair market value. Quite obviously her improvements to the property speak volumes in her favor. And a question in her favor is, should she be penalized for the improvements she made? Should she be allowed to buy the property at what may have been a lower value when she first took Possession to open her business. Thank you Anybody else like to address the city council? Not will close the public hearing will place in the hands of the council this chair this cross I'm really pleased to make this motion I move to approve an ordinance of authorizing the City Manager to execute an agreement of purchase and sale on behalf of the city with Aspen Grove investments LLC for property located at 10435 North Street in the city. Second. Second. Who moved by Mr. Cross, seconded by several pet put out, recognize Mr. Silverthorn, any discussion? Mr. Mayor. Mr. Cross. I can't, as I say, I, I, please to make the motion because I, I don't know anybody that has worked harder to make success of a, an enterprise than Betsy and Mike, they really, the work ethic there is so strong and I wish them the greatest success in the ownership of this building. I have every confidence that this is going to be the cornerstone of the downtown redevelopment and a very successful commercial enterprise that we can all be very proud of. And so I would urge my colleagues to all be in favor of this motion. Any other comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by voting aye. Aye. Opposed and it passed unanimously. I'm wondering if we should take a little money off to the commercial that they all got to. Just kidding Betsy, you might. Okay, let's now move to item number 7e, which is a public hearing and council action and appropriation resolution, the amount of $9,250 for the purchase of the patrol vehicle rifles. Is this been properly advertised? Yes. Staff report. Court's on his way to the podium. Thank you. Give me again, Mayor and Council. And the interest of time will be very brief. This is an accounting item that simply moves money from the seized asset accounts of the police department, which is money that's been turned over by the courts in drug and other kinds of forfeiture cases. And the police department's budget for this year in order to make this purchase of patrol rifles to upgrade the equipment and the patrol vehicles. Thank you. Any questions for staff? I guess the mergers disappeared on us. Any questions? Thank you, Chief. Thank you. This is a public hearing. We don't have anybody previously signed up. Anybody like to address the City Council on this item? Mr. O'Dell. I hope you will explain to those who are new in the chambers tonight that this is how I get my exercise. My question is, do they carry these guns now? Are they simply replacing them because they've worn out or something? And if they haven't been carrying them, why all of a sudden the need? We may have discussed before, I don't recall, whether they will be prohibited or required perhaps from using or to use dumb dumb bullets, both in these rifles and their handguns to be an argument of favor of allowing dumb dumb bullets which are unnecessarily large holes in the person's hit with them is that these weapons, even with the rifles, semi-narr ordinary rifles, not elephant guns, are No match for those, Wallace folks who problem with AK-47s. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. O'Dell. I think, Chase, you could probably answer Mr. O'Dell's questions offline. I'd appreciate that. Anybody else like to address the City Council on this agenda item? Okay, hearing none, I'll close the public hearing and the matter is now in the hands of the City Council. Mr. Silverthorn. Ms. Winner. I move to approve an appropriation resolution in the amount of $9,250 for the purchase of rifles funded from seized monies held by the police department. Second. It's been moved by Ms. Winner, seconded by Mrs. Cross. Any discussion? All in favor of the motion is signified by saying aye. Aye. Chair votes aye and the motion passes the vote of 5 to 0. I think that's accurate. Keep it straight if not. Thank you very much and now we'll move to agenda item number 8, which are items not requiring a public hearing and I'd like to open this up. I don't know if we have anybody previously signed up because the mayor has disappeared on me. But why don't one and I go ahead and- What did I say? I'm sorry, you're right, I did me number nine. Thank you, good catch, Mr. Gravefield. And looks like we do have two individuals signed up. We'll start with Jeremy Gifford. If you'd like to come back to the podium Mr. Gifford. And if you'd start out by stating your business address as well, that would be great. Thank you. My name is Jeremy Gifford and I own the businesses TG Reynolds on 10414 Main Street. I guess there's not here. But Mr. Mayor, ladies and gentlemen of the City Council, I want to thank you for the opportunity to address you today, pending the sale of 10414 Main Street, commonly known as TT Reynolds property. I'm the current owner of TT Reynolds, the neighborhood bar and restaurant on Main Street for over 30 years. As everyone in this courtroom is aware, the city is currently accepting bids and proposes to sell the property in the verinear future. My goal here today is to help you, the men and women who will determine the future of this iconic Fairfax City landmark, additional insight into why you should heavily consider the bid that either tenant will be submitting this Friday. Since the mid-1970s, TG Reynolds has struggled, survived, and thrived with changes in the economy, the social makeup of Fairfax, ebbs and flows in the local music community, and the current redevelopment project in Old Town Fairfax. It's over 30 years with multiple owners, generations of customers, literally thousands of band, and one cook. That's right, from us 25 years our cook, Neu, has spent every day at TT Reynolds cooking her food for anyone with enough time to sit down for a bite to eat. Throughout our safe TT's campaign, I've had the pleasure of receiving hundreds of emails of support and heard some great stories of people who've met their husband or wife at TT's, had their first data TT's, saw their children perform the band at TTs, the list goes on and on. Recently, Mr. Sisson admitted his first beer bought to him by someone on the council. His first day on the job was at TT Reynolds. In an email to a concerned customer of ours, Mr. Lutter admitted to eating hot dogs on the front porch when he was younger while watching the 4th of July parade. They were sure. I'm sure a few of you have your own stories of time spent at TT Reynolds. TT has in fact been a part of the city of Fairfax seemingly forever. Since the inception of the restaurant, local music has been the foundation for what we do at TT Reynolds. Over the years, many bands have gone out to much bigger and better things, yet continue to come back to TT's to play for those that first support them. In fact, large national touring bands have even been known to stop into TT's before and after shows at the Patriot Center to check out our local music and grab a bite to eat. Almost every single night musicians take our small stage and perform for crowds of family, friends, and fans. The TT Reynolds is not the only music venue. In fact, there are many music venues, some of which have people here today to support us. TT's is more like the local music community center. Bands practice here, they audition new members on our stage, they shoot music videos, record live albums, network for shows, post record label showcases, and even use the facade of our building as the artwork for their local CD. For the last four years, I've been the tenant of a building nearly 120 years old, and it shows. Not to get into great detail here, but this building needs major work. Previous landlords have neglected this building to the point that rot and decay are commonplace. High energy bills of the norm. And of course, as Murphy's law would stipulate, after 50 years yesterday, our furnace died, but we are currently without heat. Personally, I'm excited to put a bit on this building since the last four years, I've earned during their rainstorms inside my restaurant, $400 a week heating bills, and honestly an ugly building. As a landlord, it will be my job to bring this old building into a modern city while maintaining the historic values. Past landlords have neglected the TLC that old buildings need by repairing the roof and rotting exterior, replacing windows, then allowing fresh coats of paint, flower planters, and the build out of the upstairs currently an unused 1,400 square foot space. Selling this property to anyone but the tenant puts at risk another run of slum lords who will not care for this building as much as we would the tenant. Finally, I'd like to thank the people who've come out to night. This is my family. Please don't sell her home. Thank you. And I assume it goes without saying since these folks stayed here for so long tonight and had to listen to us happy hour on you at TD. Okay. Next, the sign up is Alita Brin. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, of the City Council. You just heard from Jeremy, and you've undoubtedly read press coverage on Save TT's movement. There isn't a lot about TT's that I can say here that you haven't already heard. However, what I can tell you is what TTs means to me. I'm a 31-year-old lifelong city resident. I pretty much grew up at TTs. My mother began working there when I was 10 and continued to do so into my late 10 years. TTs has been labeled a music venue, a restaurant, a meeting space, a campus hangout, or a bar. But TTs is much more than that to me and so many others. TTs is a community center. It's a place where creativity is bred, ideas come to fruition, dreams are chased, and friendships are nurtured. In a society where conformity is encouraged, and creativity is often stifled, funding for school music, and arts programs are cut with each year's budget, and our city blocks increasingly resemble shopping malls. TTs is not merely a bar in restaurant, it's my home. I've met my best friends within its walls, heard the most talented musicians of our area come together on its stage, seen gifted artists sketching on its back porch during warm summer days, listen while poetic writers spit pros within its booth. I've seen mirage proposals and three weddings. Baby announcements, contract sightings, new and exciting ideas on a daily basis. Ladies and gentlemen, the fate of TTs is in your hands. You can move another generic home supply store or run of the mill to handle gift shop onto Main Street, or you could use the immense power you have and choose to support the creativity, ambition, and dedication of so many of your residents. I urge you to allow TTs to continue as the epicenter of arts for mainstream fair facts. I just like to say thank you again to the council for letting us speak today and I'd also like to thank the community for the amazing outpouring of support it's shown throughout this process in this evening. Thank you. Thank you. Nobody has previously signed up with anybody. I'm almost hesitate to say this, but with anybody like that. And we can probably just show us sign a hands of everybody who's in support of the last two, but go ahead, sir. Good evening. To give us your name and address for the room. My name is Kevin Greed and my address is 1-0-226 Confederation Lane. Previously, 1-0-301 Shiloh Street. I want to talk about a slightly different aspect of this. I'm a business owner in the city. I opened my business in 2003. And excuse me, I'm gonna catch my breath in more. I'm sorry. Basically, since it's a bidding process, I'd like you to consider the domino revenue effect of closing a place like TTs. TTs is where I get a lot of business. TTs where I find a lot of employees. And closing down, they're big, comes in a little lower than other bids. The city is going to lose revenue in other ways. You're going to lose it from businesses like myself. My tax revenue is going to go down. My taxes that I'm looking forward to paying on March 1, it's going to go down. We are too. It's a tough year. Yeah, it isn't tough year. And then in a tough year, I want to reiterate what Jeremy said. You know, TTs is a business that I think because of the fact you have so many not only great people associated with it, great businesses associated with it, it's able to maintain. And I want to publicly state that, you know, if Jeremy does win the bid, part of my business does, you know, renovations. And in fact, the drywall hung along the back wall, hung it, you know, for them. But I would publicly like to donate my services to help renovate that building. Because I care a lot about the city, care a lot about TTs. And I'd like to see us keep something that's so unique and part of what Fairfax City's all about. So thank you all very much for your time. Thank you. Anybody else like to address the City Council? Jeremy's shaking his head now, so I assume that's good. Okay, thank you all very much for coming out and be safe because I know the roads outside are not great. So with that, would anybody else like to address the City Council on any item that is not on tonight's agenda other than TT Reynolds. If not, we have one? Jerry. Mr. Ardell. You guys, we got them. These are the second. These are the second. These are the second. You guys can go. So what time was the happy hour? Jeremy, I didn't hear. So what time was the happy hour Jeremy I did here? Mr. Dahl, if you could kind of work your way down, if you're going to address the council Oh We know how you like crowds Mr. Adelso here you go Now let's see if we get started here At the December 11, 2000 City Council meeting during the portion of the meeting called council member comments Councilwoman Gail Lyon was considered enough to announce the entire City of Fairfax by television, at least anyone with cable television, that she would not be seeking re-election to a fourth term on the City Council. The Council later met on January 14th and January 22nd, as well as, of course, tonight. On January 15th, I was standing in the General Register's office at the counter when the door was opened by none other than Scott Snowworthorn, who entered with his arm around the shoulders of a woman named Everly Ann Myers, whom I've alluded to at this podium before. The Mrs. Silverthorn uttered a surprising, to me at least, announcement to the registrar and the staff. He said he would not be seeking re-election to the city council. Now, we've had the meeting of the January 22nd City Council, Mr. Silver Thun, other than being late a few seconds, a few moments, made no announcement about his intent not to run. In other words, he doesn't seem to see a need to inform the citizenry of a vacancy so important as the CT occupies. Unlike the align, of course. Now, this is a little puzzling to me. I asked him immediately before, either of us left the room, the registrars, when he was going to tell the whole city. And his immediate response was and I quote last night, excuse me, I sent an email last night to my 600 city email contacts. Well, that's well and good, but the question is should somebody hand pick us his, his, his, his successors by only telling his chosen few, chosen 600. Now I noticed in the meantime that I mean I went to the city school board meeting for this month, the first Monday of this month. And I learned as a meeting was breaking up and people were going that another individual has been withholding information. Alan Griffith, he's not seeking reelection. Now it seems to me there ought to be some sort of mechanism, including penalties for and comments. Well, I mean, what says it most be would folks to get the word? Okay, about Alan Griffith and not the rest of the city. I think you get the idea. I won't be labor at the point. I have more to hit you over with the headlet later. I'll be nice when I hit. Anybody else like to address the city council? Ms. Ma'am? I'm not really a fairfax citizen. You're going to have to pull the microphone down and have to give us... There's nothing off the record or on television, but... There's something still on the record. You can give us your name and address for the record. Okay, I actually only have in Frederick, Maryland. And I didn't want to come down and say this in front of everybody in case I wasn't allowed to because I don't live in Fairfax. You're allowed to say anything you want. Within reason. Thank you. I'm usually appropriate. I just wanted to let you guys know that I do come all the way from Frederick, Maryland to this venue, or not going to you. Oh yeah, venue. It is a really iconic place for music. And I'm a huge musician. I actually manage a band out of Gainesburg, Maryland. And we're trying to get our guys booked over here. And we're super excited for them to play over here. But TT's is just, it's a great place. It's called The Cheers of Fairfax. So you come in and everybody knows your name. I don't, because I'm bad at names, but I try, you know, and I just really wanted to thank you guys to keep it open so my guys can play there, maybe. In the next few months. So, thank you. Thank you so much. Okay, well now close item number nine, and I'll entertain a motion for the approval of January 22, 2008 regular meeting. Second. Moved by Mr. Greenfield, seconded by Ms. Winter, any discussion? I'll have a favor with the motion. Please signify by voting aye. Aye. Opposed? A passionate and receivable. Now recessed the meeting. We're in a work session. We're going to be talking about the dynamic discussion of dynamic message signs. Staff report? Beginning, Mayor and Council, at this work session, we're going to be talking about the dynamic message sign, proposed purchase and installation. Four years ago the City Council actually approved an agreement between the city and the Virginia Department of Transportation to allow the city to spend the $250,000 of regional surface transportation, surface funds for the purchase and installation of the dynamic message science. This dynamic message science are according to V.Dat policies strictly for putting up traffic related messages. And as you all know, the RSTP funds are federal funds, so there are certain restrictions in actually the way we purchase, install and use these signs. There's an example of how if and when we install one would look like they can be changed or spruced up if need be. After the agreement was signed between the city and the Virginia Department of Transportation V that actually authorized the city to do this out and we did bid out this project and got several vendors and we chose one vendor for this project. However, tonight before you is a discussion as to whether or not you want to proceed with the project. If you want to cancel the project, I am not certain whether or not we can keep the $250,000 if we can move it. At the very least, we will have to pay Virginia Department of Transportation all the expenses that they've incurred in processing this project so far. Question is a staff. Mr. Mayor. Mrs. Warner. Do we know how much that money is? How much expense has been? No. Around $10,000. Okay. Mr. Rasmussen. I'm sorry. Are you done? No. Oh, sorry. When would you be able to find out if we could use the funds somewhere else? When would you be able to find out if we could use the funds somewhere else? It would probably take at least a month for us to find out if there's any other eligible project. The other problem is the city did indicate originally that we wanted this project and in the future when we go back to NBTA, we let go back and say, okay, we want more funds for this project and then we have to go back to Virginia Department of Transportation, again, with similar requests for additional projects. Okay, this is for three signs. So they would be where it would be on Fairfax Boulevard. This one is on Fairfax Boulevard at Pickett Road. There's going to be another one right behind also the Welcome Sign on Main Street right behind the welcome sign. Similar to this and the third ones at Compreh Washington. Okay. Thank you. I assume you're pushing Mr. Esmeral. Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Do we have a firm bid for these signs? Yes, sir. And is it under 250,000? It's more than 250,000. So we're going to, how much more? It's around 310,000. So we, so we the city have to come up with. And on 50,000. Well, I think following the Silver Thorn principle of this evening, that's a non-starter. I say we do two signs. Oh, we Or not. Mr. Marraves is going to say I'll one up Mr. Rasmussen respectfully and say none. I hate to look or to give up funding that we have, but to do something that I think takes away from the aesthetics in a way that's just, I mean, these things are, let's be blunt. They're sorry with all the respect Alex, they're hideous. And I would prefer that we don't do it and I see that I see some utility in them but I also see the fact that when we have these other dynamic message boards run city and Mr. Assistant knows I've commented on these for the last several years I just think it's a mistake and we shouldn't trash the city this way. Other comments, Mrs. Cross? Again, I can pair with Mr. Silverhorn's thoughts on this. The other thing about it is that 80% of the time this sign is going to read congested area. And that's for sure. But you just say I'm a scientist. I'm just saying 80% of the time, it's not even a scientist. You're right. I know. We don't want to. And why do we want to discourage people from coming through our beautiful city? Remind them not to show up. Exactly. Well, this might be the easiest topic. Is there anybody who thinks we should do this? Well, I would like for Mr. Versoso to find out some other options that are possible for the use of these funds before we return them with the penalty. Okay. And so no go on the vested signs if you can find a way for us to do a lot of things. Funds and other projects we'd appreciate it. I don't want to pay the $10,000. Thank you. Okay. That now brings us to we will recombine the City Council meeting. I move the City Council, Kavina Close Meeting, intersection 2.2, 371181. The Code of Virginia Discussed Appointments to Board of Information Section 2.23711A1. The Court of Virginia discussed appointments towards the Commission. Section 2.23711A3. The Court of Virginia discussed acquisition and deposition of certain more property for public purposes. Section 2.23711A of the Code of Virginia for consultation with legal counsel for legal advice. All council members in favor of the motion, please signify by voting aye. Aye. Opposed? and a passionate I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna to be a little bit more fun. I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy I'm not little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go to the beach and get some water. I'm gonna go to the beach and get some water. I'm gonna go to the beach and get some water. I'm gonna go to the I'm a little bit more I'm a little bit more I'm a little bit more I'm a little bit more I'm a little bit more I'm a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a little bit more of a I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna go home. 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I'm a go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a go home. 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I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to go guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a bad guy. I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go and then I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go and then I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go and then I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go and then I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go and then I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go and then I'm gonna going to be a good guy. I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to the place where I'm I'm going to have to go. music I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the school. I'm gonna go back to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man. I'm a little bit more of a man than a man. I'm a little bit more of a man than a man. I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I be a little bit more careful. I'm going to go to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a little bit more of a man I'm a to go to the next room. I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I'm not a man, I I I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go to the next floor. I'm going to go The 1130 PM and city council concluded it's closed leading the special appointments to boards and commissions to discuss acquisition and deposition of certain real property for public purposes and for consultation with legal counsel for legal vice. I move that each of us certify the best of each council members knowledge. Only public business matters lawfully exempted from the open meeting requirements and the Virginia Freedom of Information Act and only public business matters identified in the motion, convening the closed meeting, or heard, discussor considered all council members. In favor of the motion, please signify by voting aye. Aye. Opposed? In the past unanimously. That now brings us to item number 15, which are actions, there are no actions in an item 15, so it's comments by the City Council. Mrs. Winner. No comment, thank you. Mrs. Lyon. No comments tonight. Mr. Soarthor. Mr. Mayor. Thank you. First of all, I did want to take the opportunity to let the council know, even though I did this by email, and I let the public know as well, that I did decide, and this is not being prompted by Mr. O'Dullard, I was planning on doing this anyway this evening, I did decide after 18 years in office that it was time to hang it up. I actually did communicate with each of you. I communicated with my past supporters as well as with the media. And it was carried by all three media outlets here locally in the city that I've chosen not to seek re-election. As you can imagine, it's bittersweet. I love this job. I love the city of Fairfax. We'll have plenty of opportunity to, I think, reflect upon what I think has been a pretty good track record over the last six years in particular, but over the last 18 as well. Something that I think we can all share in. I'd also like to say that there was no intention not to get the message out a little more directly to people. It's a little hard to do that sometimes because you just don't have access to everyone in the community all at one time. The last meeting we had, of course, we ended at midnight. I thought we'd be out a little earlier this evening and boy, I was right by 30 minutes. So it's a little hard, you know, to communicate or try to communicate with the public via Channel 12, this Mr. O'Dell was suggesting, although he's right. I did run into him at the registrar's office and I did have my arm around one Beverly Myers when I walked in the door. And I'm sorry Mr. O'Dell that might have offended you. If I'm an equal opportunity hugger, if you'd like me to give you a hug, I'm willing to do that as well. But nonetheless, I think it's really been a wonderful experience for me to serve on this body. And I know that we're going to have a spirited election this spring. I look forward to watching from the sidelines. And I got to tell you, and I know this is something that my predecessors have told me for years, and I didn't fully understand it until I did it. Once you make the decision, it's the most liberating feeling you'll ever go through. I'll leave it at that. until I did it. Once you make the decision, it's the most liberating feeling you'll ever go through. I'll leave it at that. And then finally, a point of personal privilege, if I may say, I mentioned that I'm not gonna be here next week and I'm just gonna take an opportunity to brag a little bit. My parents are celebrating their 65th wedding anniversary. It's coming up, it's a little early. We're celebrating a few months early. But the entire Silver Thorn clan is going on a family cruise to the Caribbean. So I will be absent from the next city council meeting. And I just want to congratulate my mom and dad, even a little bit early, if I may, on 65 years of marriage. That's really a remarkable thing for anybody. And to imagine, my father's almost 90 years old, and my mom, of course, they don't probably want me talking about their age on TV, but too bad, my mom is in her mid 80s. So it's really a wonderful thing for them, and I'm very much looking forward to spending time with the family and going to the Caribbean next week. So I'll miss you all on the 26th. And with that Mr. Mayor, I yield. Mr. S. Muslin. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. No comments, but I would make one appointment. Move the appointment of Donald Johns as a senior center representative to the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board. Second. May I be by Mr. S. Muslin, seconded by Mr. Sowerthirne, all in favor of the motion. Signify by voting aye. Aye. Opposed? And passed unanimously. Mr. Greenfield? Mr. Cross. Only that I think it would be very appropriate if congratulations were sent to the Silver Foreign, so I'm there to see the San reverse, right? So it's a good purpose. Thank you. Second. Thank you. Second. The intertainer motion for the Mr. Summers giving update on the streets so you'll know what we expect. Great. That's all I needed to do is fall twice. I just got the latest from our street superintendent and all the roads. The city have been treated. The crews are working through the night and the forecast for the AEM is to turn the rain and for the freezing of stuff. It other roads in bad shape now. Well in the city there in decent shape. Okay. I knew you would say that. Why did I not? This is a night for commercials anyway, so kudos. Oh, and either pretty bad. I should have said one thing just quickly in closing. We had a wonderfully successful chocolate lovers festival last Saturday. I know everybody here probably was there. The lines once again were out the door and up the street. For most of the experience in its my understanding, they sold about the same as they did their previous year and will do very well for the charity where they raise the money. So certainly congratulations to the friends of Fairfax and all of the folks. And I know Mr. Assistant, they would pass on sincere thanks to the staff and all the in-kind services that please and the city staff, excuse me, provide it as well. Entertainment Motion for German. So moved. Moved by Mr. Silverthorn, seconded by Mrs. Winner. All in favor of the motion? Seconded by by voting. Aye. Opposed? In a pass to you now. Thank you.