Music I'm going to go to the beach. Thank you. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. I'm going go home. I'm going to go to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I'm going to the next station. I and welcome to the City of Fairfax Planning Commission meeting of Monday, May 12, 2008. Please rise and join us in stating of the Pledge of Allegiance. and to agree about what it just has, one nation under God, individual with liberty and justice for all. Good evening. We'll begin the evening with the discussion of the agenda. Are there any discussion points? Mr. Chairman, I was foster. Suggest that we move item four and item 5 to a work session to commence immediately after this whole meeting. Is there any second to that book? Any discussion? I think this adjustment if I understand a standard correctly is not the work session and if it this is to in fact defer the public hearing until it's meaning. To give the Planning Commission an opportunity to review what's been proposed. You don't want any testimony. Well, I mean, if the public hearing received testimony and then defer consideration to the next meeting after a work session, if you like, but any testimony should be the public hearing. No problem with it. Mr. Foster, but I would still, I think we need to discuss four and five because they're going to begin to blend into each other because of the centers in the master plan and I would rather have a discussion of the item rather than just vote on the motion by the ordinance on the textaments by themselves. Mr. Pueblo, are you suggesting that we entertain item four then as opening the public hearing tonight and then leaving the public hearing open to our next meeting so that you can continue to have discussion or input on it and we can get additional discussion on it before the item is closed and voted on. Sure. You can hold it open. You can hold it open to a date, which would be your next meeting. And then you could after closing this item for the evening, not closing public hearing, but moving on, then place it on the work session that you begin afterwards for discussion. We could do that. My only suggestion would be that we, as far as the present, is that we limited to a staff presentation and the applicant because I do think, Mr. that your point about fully understanding the impact of the zoning change with regard to Fair Paxble of Art is very, very important. And I wouldn't want any potential conflicts or concerns relative to the application or the proposed zoning tax amendments to impact on the discussion. Any further discussion about the motion to change the agenda? No. All those in favour of accepting the proposal by Commissioner Foster? Please say aye. It's unanimous. Are there any presentations by the public this evening? Number two on the agenda. Seeing none, move on then to item number three. Consideration of the application of centers incorporated for approval of consolidation of tax map parcels, 57-02062063 and 064. Both of our shopping center, pursuant to chapter 86 city code in order to create one lot, parcel A, the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city of the city It's a bull bar shop and center is located, or I should say bounded by a Fairfax bull bar in Warwick Avenue. The three stars represent the three parcels that be consolidated this evening. To the north is residential. To the south is actually zone C2, but it's Paul VI high school, which you're all familiar with. Excuse me, could you? And I guess it's dying. But I'll try to keep my voice up. Paul the Sixth High School. Back I believe it was in June of 2007 the applicant received approval from City Council along with special exceptions and special needs permit for the drive-through, special exceptions for various site design applications and variants to right away on both Fairfax Boulevard and Warwick Avenue, which has been demolished currently the Danker building, replaced with a Chavichace bank and expanded retail center to the existing building about 8,000 square feet. Obviously, the red arrow represents the retail and the red listed as bank is the bank. A couple of them will bring to you, just one item will bring to your attention in the staff report. I have been some confusion in terms of language in terms of the right right away issue on Warwick Avenue. I think believe stated it was 10 to 18 feet from center line. It's 18 feet from center line, from center line, not from center line out north. It's actually, right away, but I've dedicated on to the applicant's property and the request for the variance to remove the public improvements the way five foot sidewalk is provided along with what Gavin here was to keep the parking intact because it would have pushed up the building further and eliminated. keep the parking intact because it would have pushed up the building further and eliminated. Okay, thank you. It would have eliminated the parking that's needed and there were a quiet in the seat for that and would have pushed the building forward to the north where parking would have been eliminated as well. So I hence the request for the variance. Also public works division did not want Warwick Avenue widen any further for just increase of speed into the residential neighborhood. So I just wanted to clarify that. This is actually the retaliation plat. The two green lines, the one towards the west is the one of the property bound views and the one in the center is the other, which will be eliminated. This is not a property bound, who that is an easement for the existing sewer line. So this will be one parcel as a support and a comprehensive plan. We like process consolidated when we can have the opportunity and staff recommends approval of the plat with the following conditions, the chairman of the plan commission, approval signature for the updated plat, which actually has been updated site agreement bond, which has been taken place already and site plan as well. It related documents actually have received an email from city attorney updating these documents this afternoon and been approved along with the five foot easement, which was the second condition, would have proposed water meter for the bank. That was going to be added to the plan. We just need to mile our now and forget it to you to be signed. At that point. With that, thanks for your time. Thank you, Mr. Colona. Are there any questions from the messengers? Mr. Colona, again. Yes, Mr. Colona, I have one which I think has been explained to me, but it would help for everybody else who may or may not be so detailed and client. Go to the first page of the recommendation. It indicates an existing 55,710 square foot retail center with construction of 8,000 square feet, and then drops the total down to 50,415. And the language above it doesn't lead me to believe other than to guess that we're talking about reducing the 57 or the 557 by the 16, 945 from the existing danker building and considering that one square footage for all the buildings on the site, take it down and then bring it up with a new construction to get to the final numbers. Is that a reasonable conclusion that I'm drawing? Correct. The danker building was bigger and the Cherry Chains Bank is not as large and then the expansion of the $8,000 added the difference, but it's $5,000 short. Less. Okay. Yeah, the initial language as I read through it took me a while to realize that I was taking one building away, considering it part of the total as opposed to them. And sorry for the confusion. Thank you. part of the total as opposed to them. And sorry for the confusion. Thank you. My other question regards the traffic along World Wic Avenue. Is that existing right away in ownership? So we're just leaving everything in place as it stands right now rather than requiring, it would be widened which would be normal with the chain. Correct, it would be existing as it is today. Thank you. Foster, I had a call. No, Dr. Codd. Mr. Butterchild. Okay, Mr. Landis. All right. Would anyone like to introduce the motion? Mr. Chairman, I move that the Planning Commission approve the subdivision. In dedication, the flat for Saul Center's Inc. Boulevard Chomping Center, also known as 10670-10708, AFIX Boulevard, ex-Parsal number 57-day, show 1, dash 062063064 because it is in conformance with the General Development Plan and meets the requisites of the City Code with the following conditions. Number one, the Chairman of the Planning Commission shall reserve approval signature until the updated plan, site agreement and bond, site plan, and related deed documents have been approved by the city. And number two, a five foot easement around the proposed water meter for the bank. So we added to the final plot, indeed, prior to approval signature of the chairman of the Planning Commission. Thank you, Mr. Foster. Is there a second? Second. Okay. Thank you. Is there any discussion? Let's have a light to call the question. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Abstentions? Okay, passes unanimously. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Mr. Colone. All right. Next we'll move on to item number four. Consideration of a proposed zoning text amendment, city code chapter 110, specifically article one, section 110-4, article two. Sections 110-155 and through 156, article nine, section 110-631, 1632 and 110-635, Article 11, section 110-701-1002, and 110-705, and Article 14, sections 110-7-81 and 110-782, and creating a new section 110-373 to revise the regulations with respect to hotels and motels and to for extended hotels. Ms. Kudalasana. Thank you. That fairly extensive reading of all of those code changes really are getting down to a couple of issues. One is cleaning up some of the zoning text with respect to existing regulations on hotels and motels where there are a couple of conflicts and trying to get those in order and trying to more accurately describe the types of hotels and motels that we have here in town. The second is to provide for a new type of hotel which we've not had in town before, which is an extended stay hotel, which is generally a type of hybrid activity between a full service hotel and a little bit longer stay. This is a zoning text amendment that tells us that hotels are currently permitted by right in the C2C3PD and CPD zoning districts. The PD is planned development and CPD is commercial planned development. Motels in some places are addressed as by right and some places by conditionally use permit or special use permit, sometimes in the same zoning district. So we're trying to get that cleared up. The hotels have been defined to include motels, which makes a little bit tough when you split where the uses are allowed to be. And have been limited, both have been limited to transient accommodations for travelers. No kitchen facilities, not designed for long-term occupancy. Standard stay hotels have really come to the fore over the last three decades or so. They really didn't exist this type of animal much more than 30 years ago. The primary folks who use them are longer term business travelers. Usually folks that come for a week or two weeks or on some sort of TDY assignment for work. Families in the process of relocation, either coming to a new area and looking around for real estate or perhaps having house built and waiting and waiting waiting to get into it. And longer term tourists who might come for a week or two or more and want a more comfortable venue with kitchen facilities. They're often located near business parks and major highways. As I said, they provide corporations with alternatives to, you know, getting corporate apartments and putting people in them. They can run people in and out of them. And they generally offer some pretty good weekly or monthly rates. Several options for regulating these types of hotels, some localities simply treat them the same as transient hotels. Others permit them to be located in either commercial or residential areas, residential zone areas or both, and some have created separate definitions and operating standards. There's some several reasons why we might want to create standards. One is to make sure that these remain commercial and not residential uses, to make sure we include the appropriate amount of public spaces, meeting rooms, lobbies, fitness rooms, those sorts of things, amenities, levels of service, wireless rooms, those sorts of things, amenities, levels of service, wireless internet, those types of things, that they're appropriately located where they're convenient to surrounding businesses and restaurants that we require the right amount of parking for these, and making sure that we provide good sized rooms and a quality structure. April 22nd, the City Council initiated the proposed zoning text amendment that you have in your package this evening. You will be conducting a public hearing. You will be deliberating and will eventually forward a recommendation to the City Council on the zoning text amendment. The ordinance you have before you tonight, how briefly go over the features, it separately defines hotel, motel, and extended stay hotel. It provides for extended stay hotels as a conditional use so that on a case by case basis, City Council will look at a proposal, weigh it against the operating standards, and see how the particular use fits into the city's need at that time for this type of facility. It adds a parking requirement for this particular use and establishes the operational standards. And this is a rundown on these standards. One that the access through an interior hallway with no direct room egress to the exterior. Another is that staff be on duty 24 hours in the lobby or public gathering area that's a minimum of 1,000 square feet of space. I'm sure many of you have traveled who have been to these types of places. Sometimes you have an extended stay hotel where there's very little, there's some savings in terms of folks who come and clean the rooms. They don't necessarily do them every day. They might come in as requested or once a week. There isn't always somebody in the lobby. We're looking here to have a hybrid that will accommodate short-term travelers as well as long-term travelers. That the rooms themselves should be a 4,000 square foot minimum and include a self-contained kitchen at with a sink, a range, a full-size fridge, dishes, flatware, the sorts of things that support people on a longer term stay. A fitness or recreation center and then either some sort of small meeting room or conference space or a business center where folks on business travel can send faxes and print if they need to. A laundry room folks that are staying, you know, a week or two weeks might need laundry facilities convenient. Swimming pool, either indoor or outdoor for recreation, wireless internet, and no more than 50% continuous 50% of the rooms continuously occupied by the same tenant for 30 days or more. The reason this standard is recommended is because for two reasons, one is fiscal. The city obtains transient occupancy taxes for hotel stays up to 30 days. After 30 days, no transient occupancy taxes may be collected from day one of that stay and the days beyond the 30 days as well. Also if you have 100% of your hotel that's occupied by long-term folks, it doesn't provide us the opportunity at a critical location for shorter term folks. I would say that everything that I've seen from the operational characteristics of these different facilities shows that their long term or what they would call their extended stay folks might be seven days, two weeks. The majority of them are not, you know, 30 days or more, but this would require a little bit, make sure that there's turnaround there. Points for the Commission to consider its deliberations, it does provide a different alternative that we don't have currently here in town for visitors and residents in the business traveler. It establishes the use as strictly commercial. It is not residential. In the definition, it's not designed to be residential. It's not to be located in a residential area. At the lower end of some of these extended stay hotels that have not been terribly successful, some of them have over time converted to condominium use or apartment use. Putting them in a commercial area and establishing it as a commercial use helps to guard against that. Also it ensures that hybrid model so that if somebody's coming along 66 and decides they want to spend the night and Fairfax and GoDorm Museum and look around that they can go in at 11 o'clock at night and there's somebody at the front desk who'll be able to take care of them and this room is available, give them a room. We talked about the fiscal aspects and as a conditional use it will allow for the appropriate review on a case by case basis. The planning commission action that's asked for is to either recommend approval approval with some modification of the text before you this evening or denial. We do have interest that has been expressed in the city and establishing this type of a hotel in the city and we have folks here tonight that are interested in doing so who may want to weigh into this discussion. You have in front of you, I gave you a copy of this presentation so you could take notes. On the next to the last page that I gave you is information that was provided to us by the Marriott residents in folks about what their parking experience has been in our local area, in the Fair Lakes residents in and in the Mara Field residence in. There is a requirement, as you'll note, in the draft ordinance, for a parking ratio of one and a half spaces per sleeping room except in the planned development districts, the two planned development districts, where there's a lower parking standard. That's traditional for mixed use areas such as plan developments because you know the parking can accrue to several different uses in there. What this shows is that in a period of full occupancy, pretty much full occupancy of the hotels, that they were parked where they currently have one space per room. They were parked at 83 to 90 percent and still had parking available. The experience in many of these extended stay hotels is, you know, 100 percent occupancy's rare. This would seem, sorry, this would seem to indicate that one space per room may be adequate and they wanted to bring that to your attention. Sorry. The last is just a list of motel properties in the city to give you a little information about how many rooms they have when they were built, what they're building sizes. I don't know on each of these hotels what their minimum, what their room sizes actually are, but they range from about 250 square feet to 380 or so, but most of them are in the mid-to-high two range in the existing hotels. And the idea with the 400 square foot was to provide an area for the kitchen at an addition to the room. And that ends the staff presentation. The occupancy rate indicates a interesting situation. I know often things are seasonal, but it would appear that potentially there's a shortage of these type of units in the area. Is that a fair statement? The applicant can speak best to that, but this is at the beginning of May, which is traditionally a fairly high season for occupancy. But my guess would be that the applicant is interested in citing here because he does have that need and that he believes that he can fill it. And a formal application has been submitted at this time. No, I expect one will be arriving. All right, so we really just interested part in tonight. Right. Okay. Are there any questions from the commission? Dr. Conn. What is the, I mean, I would say I mentioned that, but what is the average annual occupancy rate about? I put it from January to December. The applicant certainly can answer that for the Marriott residents' ins. I have information of the literature that shows somewhere in the 70-80 percent range. Recently, I mean it goes up and down and I've got some 2007 documents that I'll get for the applicant's speaking. Do you think, Mr. Chairman? Please. Do you think this price of gasoline is going to impact that we're considering? I wish I were that good a fear. I don't know. I mean, is some kind of issue anybody has any idea. I don't know. I don't know how that will affect the hotel industry, but perhaps the interested parties would know. Right. Mr. Bouchelli. Yeah, by our definition that we have in here about hotels and motels, it appears that we do not have any hotels in the city. We do not have any full service hotels in the city. By the definition. By the definition you've been given, I would believe the Hampton Inn because it has interior room access would be classified as a hotel rather than a motel. Yes, we have the hampton in. The best place. We have comfort in, I think, all service interior access. Yeah, holiday and express. Holiday and express. But they're not full service. Well, I'm not sure what you mean by full service. Well, containing restaurant, boom service, and a like. Yeah, a lot of them do not have room service, yeah. That's right. So by our definition, by city definition, there really isn't, although they have interior entrance into the rooms, they really are not full service hotels. That's probably correct. We do not have a good full service hotels. That's probably correct. We do not have a good full service hotel in the city. That's right. Thank you. Any other questions or comments? Ms. Goodlass of the narrative in here with respect to meeting places, loading zones. In a narrative in here with respect to meeting places, loading zones, all of that was based on some information or some source other than the projected occupancy rate of the facility or any facility. It was divorced from any calculation that included the occupancy rate? Yes. The code that you have in front of you, the draft ordinance, everything in italics is new. Okay, and everything that's not in italics was not new. The new language in here, under loading spaces, only adds in extended stay hotel in addition to hotel and motel to make sure that we're covered for the loading spaces. With respect to parking and the operational standards for extended stay hotels, that is a consolidation of research that we did over probably about 20 different jurisdictions in the United States, how they treat these facilities. What the standard characteristic is of many of these facilities that, you know, the things that they would offer and is brought forward to you to massage and decide what you believe are appropriate operational standards. And just for my clarification, to be sure I understand, we have a chart that's basically showing 100% occupancy. But we have a count of vehicles and that's the percentage calculation you've shown us. That's correct. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Thank you. Mr. Collier? One question. Would all of the rooms be constructed so that they would be, they would fit the, and it's stay model for and it's square feet with the kitchenette? Or are we talking about half of the rooms fitting that model because they would expect the other half to be a more transient population and not need that amenity or service. Is there any modification there in the way the building would be constructed? That certainly is something that can be considered in a special use permit action by the Council. The models that I have seen from various extended stay hotels generally provide a sweet aspect, some one bedroom, some two bedrooms, and most all of those rooms would have a kitchen, little kitchen at, and the ability to handle somebody long term. So I don't think the rooms would be different. I think they would be built on a standard. Okay. One question I guess as it applies to this entire thing is that we've had a long-term discussion item about trying streamline the process for applicants because it as it's been quoted in the past by me and others I guess. Every single every single issue that comes along goes to City Council because it requires a special exception or a special use permit or whatever. And this sounds like what we're discussing is adding one more requirement to do exactly that. That's correct. Okay, so if this is this direction that we're trying to do? Is there something we can add to this perhaps that would codify the language in a better way to avoid that particular design for approval? Sure. The ordinance you have in front of you provides operational standards, which is one way and an ordinance to get at these things is to say provided you meet this, this, and this, and this, you can go in by right. Ultimately, the City Council will make a decision whether it believes that this type of use should be examined on a case-by-case basis, but this body can make any recommendation at such issues. Mr. Foster. I have just a couple more. In your item number nine, which would be in section 1, 10, 373, page 3 of 6, you talk about wireless internet access, which I think is a fine thing, but it occurs to me that technology is constantly changing, and then you may want to change the language to talk about most advanced, contemporary communications mechanism, whatever, instead of specifying a particular type. I have a question about the recommendation of 50% of rooms with kitchens or kitchen ets. And I don't know if that is a question for you or the applicant. As it relates to the 50% of the rooms that 30 days or more. If we're doing it for tax revenue purposes, and I understood you to say after 30 days, there's no tax collection. Do we refund from day one, or do we maintain the 30 days and no charges after that? The taxes, these taxes, occupancy taxes are self-reporting. So each of the hotels on a quarterly basis reports to our revenue folks how many days they had that were subject to the tax and were not. So generally if somebody's been there for 30 days or more, they just will not collect taxes from day one. Okay, so we're going to then enforce the 50% rule through backing out of the calculation on the quarterly reporting. It's been one or two. It's 50% or less. Another way to do it is to periodically examine the registers in the hotels. That's been done in other enforcement activity. Yeah, there are different ways to do it. We can also ask for that report to be provided. Okay. I'm just trying to avoid creating more monitoring for both sides, the city and the proprietor. Well, certainly if you have 150 rooms and you're reporting occupancy taxes, you know, on 20 rooms at a time, that would be a red flag. You know, so that's, you know, unless you had very low occupancy that season in general. At this time I'd like to invite our guests to the podium. I think it introduced themselves and Sherry A.R. Marks that like with the committee. My name is Dave Lasso. I'm an attorney representing Marriott and let me introduce Tom Galli, who's vice president of development with Marriott. Ed Papazian with Kim Linghorn, he's a traffic consultant and then Mike Albright with Christopher Consultants, who is our engineer. And let me also start with a thank you. The Marriott Hotel Company has been interested in the city of Fairfax for a number of years. There is a demand very much so for extended stay hotels in the city and time galley can speak to that. We've followed and indeed participated in the Fairfax Boulevard master planning process. For our own reasons of course, but also because it's just been a great enterprise in saying the future of a very vital corridor be examined and some realistic recommendations made as to how you want the future to unfold for the City of Fairfax. This proposed hotel and we know this proposal isn't just about Marietta. It's really about a segment of the hotel industry. That's a major segment and one which frankly you're missing isn't just about Marietta but that the hotel that would be proposed is at the V.O.T. site. It would be a Marriott residence in. We made a presentation back on March 4th in a work session format. And what we wanted to do tonight is to build on what Sue has said this evening and provide our view of it. And also a traffic consultant who's really spent a lot of time trying to get a grip on one issue which we think is very important to the draft and that is parking. Parking is a heavy cost item if it's not carefully approached it can eat up a lot of land. And you don't want to over park a site nor do you want to under-park a site. So Mr. Propazian, I think, will back up really what Sue has said. We provided those counts for you, and he can explain them to you. So that as you go forward, you can see that parking on a one-to-one ratio is sufficient. In terms of the rooms, they do all have kitchenettes. They do, they are all even a studio room, which is one room, has discrete areas broken into a kitchen area, a bath room, of course, and a living area, and then a sleeping area. And then the newer residence ends of which of course would be one will have one bedrooms where the sleeping area is a area devoted exclusively to a bedroom area. And there are a few two bedroom units. So that's the introduction I'd like to just make available to you and please ask what we're trying to hear to give you as much information as we can about the extended stay hotel. And again, concentrating on the parking because you're right. One of the things that will happen is that we have filed a preliminary site plan. It's not quite as detailed as if we were going into a plan development district, but we've filed one. It's been reviewed by staff. We've made revisions and probably tomorrow will be making the official filing and paying the fees because we do have a few special exceptions that we need to deal with some setback issues and densities, one issue. Tom, if you would come up, please. Tom Galley. Good evening. Good evening, good evening. Hi, my name's Tom Galley. I live in Oakland. Sorry, I eat all the time in the city of Fairfax. And my son and my single dad were always over here enjoying your restaurants. What my title is, I'm Vice President of Launch and Development for Marriott and Eastern Seaboard, so it's my responsibility to develop our corporate developed properties. I've encountered part of the Hannon-Wenny Management Contract Project or a franchise project, so my focus is going in spending Marriott's funds to develop real estate for the company. I'd like to thank the city staff for producing the draft ordinance that would add the extended stay hotels as an allowable use in the city of Fairfax. It's Mariette's view that this location is a great one for an extended stay hotel. As Dave mentioned, we've been looking at the site for the past four or five years prior to, prior, prior, prior, prior to the current owners buying, buying, buying the properties that were very excited. excited to have the opportunity to develop a marriage resident in the city. The draft awards is very thorough. There's a great job, I think, of defining a lot of the core attributes and extend-and-stay lodging. And as I go through my little talk, if you have any questions, you wanna ask me or afterwards about extend-and-stay lodging or about lodging, I should not be happy to answer those to the best of my ability also. As our development team looked through the draft ordinance, there are two things that kind of jumped out of this that we thought could give us a little bit of problem or an extend and say hotel for developer in general as far as being able to really develop the property. The first one is that there's a call out for multiple drop off loading areas if you will based on a formula. And we think it's a little bit high. I think it calls for either two or three, 12 by 25 foot aisles. We have to set aside for deliveries into the hotel. The nature of these hotels, the residence in hotels is that there's no full service restaurant. There's a breakfast that's provided to the customer as part of the room rate. It's complimentary. The restaurant is not in that, there's not religion. There's not open to the public. There's no cash registers in the restaurants. It really, really is part of your stage. You get to eat the breakfast at residence ends. So the really, the deliveries there are really done via more kind of by like EPS or UPS kind of size trucks, more of those kind of panel trucks. Occasionally we get this smaller semi trucks or a semi truck and everything is usually dropped off kind of like pallet form. They drop the pallet and they load into properties. So one of our things we noticed on the site plan was that it was a little bit too much space put aside for a loading zone if you would, which would cost a developer, if you will, additional funds I had to have in the bill of that space. The other thing is Dave mentioned and as a staff mentioned is that our experience in developing over 550 residents in hotels nationwide and 19 here in Washington, DC, Metro area is that a one-to-one parking ratio works great for these properties. And the reason for that is that residents do a lot of transient travelers also on any given property about half the people staying there stay less than four nights. How the industry and how merit defines extended to a travel is someone staying five nights or more. So as longer you stay, you're kind of rate ratchets down a little bit. To give someone incentive to stay because when someone stays multiple nights, it's great to know hotel operators perspective. I'm seeing some mention, we don't clean the rooms. Often clean the rooms every day, but a lot of times certain things don't need to be changed out on a daily basis. So we assess mop rating leverage there as well as if someone's saying a little bit longer term is fewer check-ins, check-outs, which would have less traffic impact on a daily basis for a preventive initial property. But with that said, we saw staff's recommendation for the 1.5 and I was looking from a empirical data to pull out the shelf saying, you know, this one to one ratio that Mary's used all these years has been successful. Here's something that really says it really works. I couldn't find anything on the shelf. So what we do is that we actually hired Kim Lee Horan, the local traffic consultant. We work with, we work with a variety of properties from full service hotels, the extended sale hotel, the limited service hotels to really do a little bit of a test for us and kind of monitor a couple of our properties that we felt were kind of like properties. Now first property was the Marifield residence in which is over at 50 in the beltway and the same kind of set up there. You're not really near a metro stop per se, which you can get to a metro fairly easily up and done. Loaring and the second property was the unfair lakes residence in which the property that exists for about 10 years now, which the same kind of set of resistance in the office park park, a lot of good of many support around it. And the results that Ed's group I think has uncovered you guys having front of you. And what I like to do at this time is just kind of say that you step aside, introduce Ed, they'll talk to you guys again. It's his professional opinion on the parking situation. Thank you. Thank you. And again, I'll be here to answer any questions that Mr. Kai has mentioned for you and I have some big hopes that the price of gas does not decrease or occupant. It is now for my own personal profit sharing. Good. Y'all hope that. Good evening. For the record, I'm Edward Popazian with the firm of Kim Lee Horne and Associates. While this is my first time appearing before the planning commission, I've been a resident in the area for over 30 years letting in Chantilly. I remember when the complete in the city of Fairfax was everybody travels through the city but doesn't stop here. We have worked with Marriott extensively on several different projects and when I got a call concerning this matter, there just isn't a lot of information available that's relevant as I would like it to be. So what we wanted to do was to do the best thing as indicated. Go out and do actual surveys at comparable locations and as soon summarized for you very nice. We did to perform two surveys on Tuesday and Wednesday nights, the heaviest nights of activity. That's when business is highest, business activity is highest. People who are on travel usually are doing it on those types of evenings. Tuesday and Wednesday night, we did the counts late at night and early in the morning. So we also touched base with the hotel management to find out what their occupancy was. So we got we were we got a terrific cooperation from the hotels and they gave us terrific information. We did as you saw two samples at each location. We will be doing actually another sample this week, tomorrow night, and Wednesday night at a location in Montgomery County, Maryland, north of Silver Spring. Once again, comparable suburban setting, not close to a tremendous transit in a suburban setting where there's activity around it. So this will be another sample that I'm very confident the results will be very, very similar. We, what are the interests and as you summarize for you very well in every instance, in each of our surveys, the parking ratio that we found was less than one space, one parked car per unit. And that included all parked cars, whether it was the two employees that would be at late at night and the guests. One of the things that is very interesting about the characteristics of the guests is that you have instances in our firm has folks going out on travel, where you may have two or three or four folks from the same company who have different rooms staying in their own room, but they may only have one car between them. And that kind of ties in with your comment about the price of gasoline. But in order to make sure to control costs, travel costs, there is some control, especially if they're on the same assignment, to share an automobile. And that's one of the reasons why we don't see a ratio of greater than one to one, because people, not every one of the guests have their own automobile. There is probably some degree of providing shuttle service, cab service, where people may be picked up by the folks that they are visiting with, things of that story. But very interestingly enough, in all the instances that parking ratios were less than one to one. Be happy to answer any questions you may have concerning the study that we did or our findings. If I may, I'd like to invite Mr. Lasso up to the podium again. I think the parking issue is something we certainly can, during our work session, I invite you to stay for that if you don't mind. So, Lasso, I'm curious, obviously we're looking at updating our zoning regulation with regard to extended presentations and very helpful with regard to the thoughts of Mariat. And we really look forward to having Mart as a corporate citizen in the community. And I have to say I'm delighted that you've been part of the Route 50 discussions for the Master Plan, or effects Boulevard. I'm curious if there's been any thought with regard to the flip side of our zoning text. Obviously, we have a number of properties that were built during the 1950s here. We have several that were built during the 1990s, but the idea of having a refresh or making the city a more corporate friendly environment for the hotel industry to invest in the city. Has there been any discussion by yourself or your client with regard to the flip side of our zoning text ordinance so we can have more for examples raised by one of my colleagues full-sort circles of the city of Fairfax. We have had some discussion and we had a discussion on that very point when I think it was Tom Galley and his colleague Bob Mann when we first came to the city 18 months ago, probably, to just let the city manager know that Maryott was quite interested. And one of the questions was, you know, why isn't this a full service hotel? And that question is the same kind of question, for example, in the City of Falls Church. I live in the City of Falls Church and have lived in the area for over 30 years and work for the city as a city attorney and city manager. And every community wants to have a full service hotel. There's something, what's the right, what's reinforcing and it's validating that a community has a hotel like that. The dilemma is, and this is what Tom and Bob explained, is the right market. And I would like to have Tom come up and explain it a little bit more. And it does have something to do with with ordinances, because you've got to have the right environment. Frankly, parking is one of them. If you're parking requirements are too high, one of the big requirements for any development in particular for a hotel, full service hotel is parking and in the full service hotel where you have, you can have full convention or at least large conference areas, restaurants, parking as a critical element and increasingly what I see I do some work in Arlington County and Marriott just had a hotel approved in the Potomac yards area is the sharing of parking between the various uses that you can have in a true mixed use area. North Fax is going to be mixed use. It's not going to be a mixture of uses on this particular site because it's really an awfully small site, but you're going to have an effect over time, a mixture of uses, which is really what you ought to encourage. And to get back to your ordinance before Tom comes up, frankly, one of the biggest questions is after market because you can't have it if you don't have a market that calls for a full service. Is density? You've got to have a zoning code that allows the type of density that it takes to make the best use of what has become extremely valuable land anywhere in the northern Virginia area. That's the first question is what's the land going to cost? That's what developers look at. What can I build on it? And if the density is too low, then you automatically are pushing everything to be horizontal and it just provides an enormous hurdle for anybody to overcome. And so there are those issues that you really have to look at. So your code currently in this area, for example, allows 0.5 FAR, very suburban, you might say. That's a density that's low all over Fairfax City, frankly. That's almost like a standalone restaurant. A lot of pad sites are like that, .25, .5. You've got to get up into the least .1, .1 and a half, or not .1, 1 and a half at the R. Before you can really begin to recognize the value in having added height. And height necessarily isn't necessarily one of the issues, but there are some areas where added height could be useful. This height here is going to be 60 feet. You might have greater interest, not necessarily from an extended stay hotel here, but maybe in other spots that are a little bit further away from residences, if height was a little bit greater. Because there are certain building characteristics that it really, if you're 60 feet, you might as well just be stick built, and you want to get to the point where you have slab construction and metal framing, that sort of thing. And you've got to have enough height so that can pay for itself. So there's a lot of issues. We did look at the ordinance. For our purposes, the market isn't here for a full service. I don't want to say it all. And you have one example of where you do have, and Tom maybe talk about the fairer, fairer legs, fairer oaks rather. Right. David's hotel development expertise is amazing at times. But he's exactly right to have. The densities are always the biggest issue for us. And we got to look at a market on the big thing we're looking for is a density of demand generators. In Maritsa Company we have 10 or 11 hotel brands and our goal in our development is to put the right property at the right location, to serve what the market is there. You don't want to build a church for Easter Sunday to go back in the old axiom. But one of the challenges at the I-66 quarter is that historically is that the full servotels that have been developed, you know, the high-end up-and-fair lakes, which now a Marriott at the Faroq's Mall, which was a holiday in. All those properties have, I only use term struggle, but I'm sure they've not met through their operating performance based on when they were developed. And I think just a matter of, you know, up and down the corridor, there's good density, not great density. It's not like you're driving up, you know, the Amdellis corridor. We have millions and millions of square feet of defense contractors. Here we're a little bit challenged from the kind of generators that are here because of the lack of densities. but it's not been a lot of big upscale office developments that have happened up and down the I-66 corridor. We have the Fairview Park Marriots, which is over 50 in the beltway, and that property has done well because they have a huge ballroom and they really tracked from a drop in a really wide trade area, and they're really in the meetings business more than anything else. And we didn't see the location really in the meetings business more than anything else. And we didn't see this location as being a meetings business type hotel. The beauty of the residence in Brand is that it tends to drop a little bit wider trade area also, because people will travel for a purpose built, extend a stay hotel, because it offers everything they need, if they're staying, whether it's four nights, the 25 nights, whatever, because it gives them a great variety of things. They can work out there, a great public space to do their work in. Their rooms are very spacious, you know, space cells in a residence in. You know, the free breakfast really plays into their budget numbers. So, you know, this whole area is still really kind of pretty and driven. And the residents in brand plays right into the power alley. So we're firm believers in putting the right property at the right location. We identified this here for another resident. Senator. Other another question? Yes, it was coming. Yes, here. Two, really. One. Thank you for the traffic study and looking at this. Sure. And in noting at the study, we've got fair lakes on the one hand, Mariffield on the other. And I'm going to put us right in the middle in Fairfax City. Fair lakes is surface parking. Mariffield has a category here called garage parking. Where in the middle is this building fitting between? We are focused here on surface parking. And that's just really an economic issue. I mean, the more parking we can get on the ground, the much less that the expenses for any developer to develop. You know, I was not around when they developed the mayor-field property. And my assumption is there is that there's some kind of great land deal. They must have gotten to be able to forward that because whenever I look at doing a property, the parking comes cost of my land cost basis. So I'm looking at doing either structured or underground parking as an example. I'm sure you guys have seen what has happened with your developments in the city center. When you build a structured parking, the cost per space on that can be anywhere from 25 to 35,000 per space. And when you go subterranean, it's even much higher than that. It can be 45,000 to 50,000 space. So I think when we're looking to do projects today, we try to do as much as we can above ground. Okay, so we'll fit in there. And is that driven by number of rooms or anything else that not really the site of the death? I think I think if the site, in Marifilm, is playing much tighter site, square footage wise. So my son, he's that they really wanted to be there. We wanted to be there very badly so he decided to go at the underground parking and that's how the economics must have worked on that. My other question is that I've had the experience of living in an extended state situation with my spouse and two small children for better part of two months, long in the past fortunately for me I guess. But when I look at this and look at our attempt to provide amenities. We're talking about ensuring that the businessman has his communications, but I'm not sure where children would fit any of this definition. So does extended stay essentially talking to strictly businessmen coming through here and we talk families or are we talking really to be able to serve families and children? You know, I think that D is, is to serve everybody, you know, the serve families and children also. You know, I think the idea is, is this to serve everybody, the serve families and children also. You know, each resident has what they call a sport court, which is a basic basketball hoop and a tennis set up, you know, that kind of works out. We leave it in the indoor pool for the children, you know, the great room, which is where the breakfast is served. You know, there's large flat panel TVs there, there's books in the library, is an exercise room that everybody can use, you know, mostly cardiovascular equipment versus weight, kind of training equipment, because we find that cardiovascular is what really gets used in hotels, not so much weight. So someone wants a good weight workout that go onto a gym somewhere else, lifetime fitness or a goal, something like that. So the idea is really to attract everyone, and it's been pretty successful as a brand doing that. Okay and you're finding even with serving only breakfast on the site but providing a kitchenette then that you can provide for family needs very well. Right, right. You know what happened? I think what happens with the kitchenette is that I'm not sure, you know, how much real serious cooking goes on in those because It really says a flat top is what it is, not really an oven. So I think a lot of times it's really used for a case with family making macaroni and cheese for the kids. You cereal and beverages in your refrigerator for breakfast. And we still find, in most of the time, people saying, for instance, tend to use the local restaurants and go out and do their own food prep. I don't know what your experience was like, but that's what my experience was to adjoining rooms and with two young children and two adults, it got pretty good finding out. That does sound very convenient. Are there any other, I'm sorry, I'm standing in. Any other questions or comments? I asked Foster. No, a couple of questions. In the Marriott Model, or I guess in this facility, are we talking about rooms in a similar configuration to a hotel as opposed to some of your properties I've seen that have one story and then two story. Yeah, we are building this very urban-ish in design, you know. And it's just kind of an L shape kind of building like this and it'll be having stories we might find, my stories. And all the rooms are really, you know, on a couple of central corridors. They'll be very nice when you pull into the parking area or on the back, there's actually going to be a court, a circular court, something you pull up, drop off, and then go off to their parking. It's a very important question. It's funny because Mariett will be offering us for a minimum of 30 years. That's what our management agreements are when we get all he's done. So we want to be, we want to make sure that guests are as happy as they possibly can be also, because we've focused very strongly on guest satisfaction. That's one of our great big creating points for our general managers and how I create it also and how well these hotels actually do. What is the roughly the standard size of each room and how much of that is allocated to kitchenettes? And I guess the third part would be, do you or any of your competitors construct facilities that don't have kitchens or kitchens in each room? I'm going to residence in each room has a kitchen in it. I'm afraid the residence in the brand. You have total square footage white each one of the they call it a studio or one bedroom is about 450 square feet or so. And you can vary it a little bit depending on the shape of the building. The two bedrooms of which there aren't that many or 700 square feet. It's basically a one bedroom with another bedroom attached to it with a common seating area. So it's all very good size rooms and that's what really sells in the extended state market space. People are there a little bit longer. They want to spread out. We get a lot of folks, especially in this area with so much government consulting going on, where they basically use their hotel or miss their office, if you will. A lot of times the high speed internet that we provide is faster than getting a lot of the office buildings where they're consulting. This area has a ton of business that flies in Monday and flies out Friday. And they come in. Guys, you guys will actually keep the room over the weekend sometimes because I'm moving their stuff back and forth and taking it on with it's coming back to the following Monday. So that's why Rezzen, as a brand, works so great in this Washington metropolitan area is because it's really geared to what the government traveler is looking for. And then in the case of the families, it's really geared toward the tourists that are looking for, a lot of times they'll come in for a week at a time. And what a family once, as you saw in your accident stay, stay with space, and a chance, basically, so I'm gonna weigh a little bit from sitting on top one another on the bed and stuff. Are you planning to offer any kind of shuttle service to Metro or the- Right now we find is that a lot of times, I'll give you an example, the Marafield property. They do a lot of business, especially over the summer. They do a lot of training and internship business with Exxonmobile and the Department of State. And both those operations pack right their own shots. You know, the Q bus runs right by right right right by the site takes the Metro We would monitor that right now. We don't have a we don't plan to offer band service Because there's no one big generator like that nearest we'd have to shuttle back and forth to and a lot of those guys provide their own Thank Well, I would just like to As we move I believe we're gonna keep this discussion open until next week so we can continue the hearing component of this. But the one takeaway from this is that there is a vision beginning to formulate for the boulevard as well as for the Route 123 North Facts corridor. And this property can be part of the linchpin to leverage the redevelopment, not only of this node or the central area, but frankly a broader area as well. And I think a lot of thought has gone into ideals for what the visual perception of the boulevard will be. The structure of the streets, the network of smaller arteries to make it more of a neighbourhood and retail friendly environment. And it began to submit your application, I understand it's eminent. My hope will be is that you will take a serious look at the document that the city counts reviewing and we are going to be reviewing with the community. And we look forward to that. I think it's great. As the day mentioned, we've been heavily involved in insurets side with the city and we think it's a great opportunity for us and for the city. And we think you'll be very happy with it with the end. We won't provide. Thank you. One final comment I would like to say thank you again for the participation in the process. Well, business improvement district staff meetings and through the presentation to City Council. And in addition to saying thank you, I would indicate my preference would be for the L shape building in the corner rather than the one in the center of the lot as well as discussed. We were going, I think that's a better, a better positioning looking forward. And I know we may be a while getting the streets built, but I would hope that's what the future is. We're hanging in there with you, thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Any more discussion on this item? A motion to keep this matter open until our next meeting. So moved. Any discussion? Do we think- We may want to have a brief discussion about the date certain because our next scheduled meeting is Memorial Day. So the question remains, did you want to meet instead next week, which would be May 19th, or the week after, if you want to get that meeting in, June 2nd or defer your other option of course is to go to the June 9th regular meeting. No, no, I think we'd like to have a meeting sooner rather than later because we've had a number of meetings that we've pushed back on this year. But what gentlemen do you feel? with me the next Sherman I will be out of town next week Memorial Day week and the first week in June's meeting So next week does that work? Next week No next week I will be out of town on Monday And the Tuesday after the Memorial Day holiday June 2nd June 2nd and June 2nd. And for the, that's June 20 or May 27. When you say May 26 this Memorial Day. I'm talking about Monday. Yeah. But he was a Monday May 26 is our regular meeting date. So the Monday after that is June 2nd. Right. I was thinking out of the box, suggesting a Tuesday for us. Oh. Well, you have to worry about space as well. On the Monday, June 2nd, it is the regular meeting in this room of the school board, which means you'd be in the adjacent room. The following week is the Tuesday. June 3rd would not be a City Council meeting to the following Tuesday would, so. Is it 27 council meeting? Yes. What is just I will be back on the 9th and the 23rd of June. Why don't we take a look at that? Are we collected proxy? All right, we'll go with the 9th. With what? The 9th. June what? The night. June 9th. June 9th. Okay. So we want to move to dates or the public hearing. Continue the public hearing. Continue the public hearing until June 9th. Right. All right. Is there any discussion about that? Yeah. Call the question. Second, I think we had. Just a little bit. Okay. Call the question then. All those in favor, please? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Abstentions? All right. So that's where we are. Gentlemen, thank you very much. And we are going to have a discussion after this and work session very shortly and you're welcome to stay and join us. Thank you. Okay. Moving on to the agenda. We're going to be moving to our next item, which I believe is our minutes, if I remember correctly, from the agenda. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. And I think we do. Minutes of April 14, 2008, consideration is same. Are there any edits to those in the minutes or is there a motion? Mr. Chair, could we do for items before and five with that last motion? Yes. Four and five are going to the work that. Yeah, five we addressed earlier in the discussion with the agenda. Move the agenda or move the minutes to be adopted as presented. Is there a second? Second. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? And I'll abstain also because I was not through abstentions. Okay. Next item I believe is our staff report, Eddie? Just briefly, an update on the state's transportation funding issues. Today, as many of you may have seen, the Governor King had a press conference in which he introduced his proposed tax increases to deal with the issue of replacement funding. We talked about the MBTA tax last week. Basically, what is being proposed is a 1% increase in only the Northern Virginia sales tax, a 1% increase in the statewide car titling tax, $10 increase in the statewide annual vehicle registration, and an increase I've seen 25 cents, I'm not sure if that's the right number, in the statewide real estate grantor's tax. Absent from his preliminary proposal is any increase in the gas tax, which won't add to the issue. Dr. Conn brought up earlier. All these taxes are going to be debated during the legislature special session that is scheduled to begin June 23rd. Interestingly, some of this would fund the new initiatives for transit. Some would fund maintenance of state roads for V.Dot. All of that you can find on the website. I just wanted to give you a general rundown. But I think it should be an interesting session that will be coming up June 23rd. Part of that is specific funding for Northern Virginia Transportation Authority, but he has proposed dismantling basically the Hampton Roads Transportation Authority and absorbing that under other funding state funding. So, it's kind of an interesting thing that's going on and I told you I would report back to you on that. So, I just wanted to give you some general information. The regional sales tax increase in Northern Virginia is what would really be funded through the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority. The rest, they're looking at maybe having a specific fund from the Grand Tours Tax, which would primarily fund mass transit. And the sales tax and the vehicle registration fees are the ones that would be dedicated to highway maintenance in the state. Just a general window. Thank you. And our next item on the agenda. Are there any questions for staff on any other item? Okay, our next item is the commission comments, commissioner comments. Are there any comments this evening? Okay. Well, we are going to adjourn and move right into our work session at this time. Could we like to begin with an ongoing discussion of the zoning change with regard to the extended stay or would we like to begin with the Fairfax Bill of Art Master Plan discussion. What is our preference? I don't know. I think maybe we just continue with the zoning changes. The master plan is going to be a more overarching kind of discussion. And we need to think through the details of this a little bit. Yeah, I would agree with sticking with the extended stay hotel or the government and working through the details on that but I think we're going to have references that tie into the master plan discussion because the two are inter-gly tied. And the master plan has been on our agenda for a very long time, and as part of, I think, what's driving the planning for the extended stay hotel and its current configuration. But from a timing standpoint, if they would like file an application as early as tomorrow, they need an answer to get to City Council under the existing rules because we're not going to solve the other issue twice or rapidly. discussion of the zoning ordinance. I'm curious, Ms. Kallasa, how it was information in the memo prepared both for City Council and for us as far as some of our neighboring jurisdictions and how they've been approaching to. I understand some of the additional protections, for example, the services and amenities of an extended stay hotel, the idea of monitoring the length, the impact on tax revenues and so on. But besides those issues, is it really a major difference between the existing ordinance and the proposed ordinance? What really besides that is the difference? Well, there are a couple different issues. Some of them have to do with longstanding enforcement issues in the city. We have hotels in the city that have done some de facto extended stay over long periods of time. Those are not legal uses and we have been going through enforcement activity on those. Because hotels are listed as transient uses and when you no longer collect the transient occupancy taxes, you are no longer by nature, purely transient. So from a technical viewpoint, if we are to accommodate this type of use in the city and looking at this type of use, you know, coming to the foremore, we need to be able to amend the ordinance to accommodate them. Now, we can accommodate them. Certainly, you can just add extended stay into the definition of hotels in general and, you know, really have an open ended, anything goes. As somebody mentioned earlier, we don't have any full service hotels in the city. We have a lot of older hotels and motels. And the preference would be, I think, to bring to the city some new facilities of high quality that would serve the sectors that we are trying to encourage in some of our economic development objectives. And to provide for that and to encourage by zoning for that these types of higher facilities, some locations have put in place these operating standards that establish a minimum level of services. That is not true for most of Northern Virginia. Most of the other localities, just those things started popping up all over the place before anybody realized they were a different animal and a lot of them went in and have gone in traditionally. You all had asked a question earlier and I had pulled the 2008 hotel chain survey that was done by business travel news. They said that 2007 was a strong year for the extended state here in the United States Annual Room Revenue's grew 9.5% in that sector. Interestingly, they also said in their analysis that occupancy rates its extended stays tend to be higher than standard hotels and standard full service hotels. And one of the reasons that they gave for that, I think, was alluded to by the representative for Mariett, which is weekends. Standard hotels face a problem on the weekends. And in these cases, even if folks are commuting back home for the weekend, they leave their stuff there, they pay for the room, you know, they keep the occupancy rates up. And therefore, extended stays try and, you know, generally are able to maintain that 85% occupancy rate, whereas a standard hotel may be, you know, pushing down to 70. Overall occupancy in hotels in general in 2007 was actually down slightly, but among the different vehicles that are offered in the hotel industry, this particular segment has been pretty strong. So in from an economic development perspective, from the perspective of trying to get new uses in the community, but ensure that they are quality uses, and not just things clothed in different words, we're trying to establish some minimum standards. And I think that the commissioner, Foster's point was well taken with respect to the technology. You can use words such as advance communication, such as wireless internet, and that sort of deals with you're being able to bring it up to speed. That's great. And the other issue that I thought was all so strong as we've been talking about was parking. The way the language reads right now is one and a half spaces. Part of the reason for that was a survey that we did of jurisdictions across the United States, Tempear, Arizona, Connecticut, several different places. There was a discussion about, you know, families that when you and your wife and two kids are in that hotel for extended period of time, very often that's two cars. And some of that, of course, is going to be played off by the businessmen who are sharing cars or people who come and that don't have them. Depending on the amount of facilities that a particular hotel might have, we might have an extended stay hotel that has meeting facilities. But we've provided for that in the language where we say X number of spaces plus or ancillary uses. So if they happen to have something we can do there. I think staff is comfortable with the information that has been provided by Marriott and would be comfortable with lowering that to something closer to one or even one. Two quick follow-ups. One is I'm curious, for example, all sweet healths. How that would fall into the zoning ordinance, because in many cases, people use all sweet hotels as extended stay units. It may not be for two weeks, but certainly for five days. How would that fit into the zone ordinances presented? Well, hotels that have guests that are transient for less than 30 days can be considered a standard hotel. It's when you have those stays that broach that 30 day that they then would have to come in and file. I have to say I'm a little bit nervous about a one-to-one parking ratio because our experience in the city of Fairfax has been in development that we have touched that parking has been tight after the fact. And if we are talking about potentially a reinvention of the boulevard, we are talking about parking sent behind buildings. We're talking about increased density granted. It's not the level that was originally envisioned and the revised document will talk about that shortly. But the idea is that it will be more of a boulevard environment with multiple uses as our guests recognize this evening. I, in fact, have concerned about a one-to-one parking ratio because I see, frankly, a lot of mixed use between the developments in the parking lots. And so that's just something I want to raise as an issue, something that concerns me. Other thoughts in this discussion, please Mr. Cunningham. As regards the mixed use, in having watched the presentation in March to City Council with potential future for redevelopment of this area, I think that the gentleman from Maria made an excellent point that if they locate an L shape building down close to 123 and a proposed future street, given when it ever gets there, that that gave the maximum opportunity for redevelopment and jointly working out parking arrangements with potential neighbors that would develop in that area. So I think it lended itself very nicely to addressing some of that as long term. And I would think that if they were on a short-term basis before redevelopment occurs, if a one-to-one parking relationship works, then they don't face anybody trying to use their space and having to protect it so to speak. I want to come to a long current agreement with one of the adjacent car dealers to park new cars and fill the space that way. But right now that the existing bill, the existing adjacent owners don't threaten the parking. Right? No, it's just I think it's a both a short term and a long term issue. Good point. I agree with that absolutely. Gentlemen, any thoughts? I was just wondering what's the square footage of this building? You're thinking of putting it. 108,000. Thank you. On a separate occasion, I had to keep bringing up personal use, but one is the recording requirement for staying more than 30 days because it is longer going far away. But I did stay in this town by myself without my family for more than 30 days when I first came here in a TDI situation and looked at that so that I don't know. At that point I was never aware that there was an issue with staying that long and I just made an agreement with people with the motel unit or owner at that time and that unit isn't no longer there. It's now a car dealership. So not a continuing issue, but this is not something that's new to the area. So that I recognize the model for coming in here and staying for longer periods, as well as the need for that on a business basis. I guess the thought I would have with that is that that model hasn't changed. We've got adequate amenities as they've been addressed. And communication has changed sufficiently that we're addressing most of the issues that would be tied to that. The reporting would be one of the things in terms of staying longer or that in terms of is there a need for the motel to attempt to have to game the system? Are we we're setting an arbitrary limit of no more than 50% staying over 30 days. 30 days. Uh, just checking out on Friday and checking back in Sunday night when you return after 28 days break the 30 days day so that, uh, you now can stay longer. And is that something that we're going to be driving in in terms of a good or something. If I may, it asks a different way. From Ariat's experience, is this type of code requirement workable and doesn't work where it exists? So I believe it's a state code. So I know that in our properties and Fairf fair facts kind of they had the same situation where I think it is if if you stay 29 days on a 30th day They to rebate you all attacks all all the room revenue tax that you paid And that revenue does not come into the jurisdiction and so I know that I know what you guys don't want to see But if if somebody would check out and then check back in I mean, I I'm not sure the technicality of the law, but that probably would. Stop the clock, if you will, just a good guess in my part. It's an extent that it would. From staff, have you examined this issue? Yeah, we've had several. This requirement for no more than 50% of the rooms, 30 days days is really very open and flexible from what I have seen and you're certainly the expert but I am Mary that's example is that about 50% of their stays are long term but to them long term is seven days or five days or more so that I don't know what their number is for 30 days or more but if we already know that half of them are just seven days or more, my expectation is they'd be well below that number. Right. What I'm going to report out to is that nationwide for all of the 550 residents in hotels, about 20% of the business stays at 30 plus. The lion's share is really transient, traveler, the one-to-four-night stay guy, the fly in Monday, fly out Thursday, kind of guy who wants the additional space to spread out and work out of his office. That's a nationwide number. I believe on this project, I think we're worth paying that same kind of ballpark that our feasibility team has built the pro forma on for the hotel. It's paying that same ballpark assumption, I would guess. Maybe a little bit higher here because of Washington, D.C., because there's a lot of temporary assignment business here, but it wouldn't be much higher than that 2022 or 23%, people staying 30 plus, if you will. Well, just my personal experience, you're located to the City of Fairfax from New York is that I would have loved to see a facility of this nature in the City of Fairfax from New York is that I would have loved to see a facility of this nature in the city of Fairfax. My family and I stayed at the Fairview Park Marriott in a small room and I wish that this type of facility existed. I think it's, you know, a nationwide, the biggest competitor to residents in, residents endominates the segment and it's 550 properties and as close as competitors like 110. So we've been around doing this since 1986, Mariat bought the residents of the brand. The biggest competitor, Residence Inho Tells, are full service hotels. Let's see your point. Because people, you know, they've either be cashing in Mariat points or they're getting reimbursed and the Mariat's the closest property to where their office density is. So let's stay there out of convenience, but it's not really geared toward a family staying, you know, for going to relocate. And that's why in our industry it's called a purpose built hotel, you're building your residents and extended property for that extended state travel. That's what's wrong about. Right. Next question I would have is a quality instruction question really. As we're talking with this location and I think you alluded to it, we're at a height where stick build was the term used that's still reasonable up to 60 feet or so or five stories. Another development that was a little further down the bouvard that was turned down, if you will, here at the door. So had that particular language used as the principle reason for a vote against, and that was that it was built to burn or it was stick built. So when we look at something like that, we're trying to develop quality along the business improvement district as we go through this image. One of the members of the Board of Architecture Review, who was a long time architect left the Board in November and unfortunately died in December, Had as his one of his major issues as an architect. Why are we building disposable buildings like we're building cars now? We throw them away every time we turn around. We tear the last building down and build a newer, bigger, better building, rather than building some of the classic structures that have been there for a long time, have a history. And you wouldn't think I wouldn't imagine of moving into New York, if you will, and tearing down the brownstone so that you could put up the modern McMansion real right there in the middle of the block. It just, that image just doesn't come to mind. So if we built quality buildings, they should be there to last and they should be able to be modified and and change fund and as we go down the road rather than having to tear them down every 15, 20 or 30 years to replace them and part of that delta is as you said slab with steel walls perhaps in current construction rather than a stick building. Right. Right. We're on that dividing line if we're not close enough to get structured parking. Are we toward quality construction and? I, you know, our plan, our conceptual plan has, has a great deal of mainstream to building a fifth exact percentage, like 50, 60 percent masonry, which would be, you know, brick or, or a, a a like material. And then usually in hotels as they go up a little bit higher, they'll put on a granitex type of exterior, which a pre-formed EFIS panel, if you all know, it's like pre-casts. And they can basically hang those, remain factured in a factory, so they're much higher quality than doing eat this in the field, if you will. But you know, almost all of our buildings today will be allowed out of the concrete, the masonry and the light gauge steel framing. If I'm drawing over here today, I notice the apartment building being built on the other side of 66 in the office park there, which is built to burn. So what I saw today was all wood, a lot of wood. Is this to foster? I have a few comments about parking, but I did not get into that. I did not have the benefit of the March presentation. I was out of town. So in 25 words or less, I don't visually understand what you're doing with this structure. How would be positioned on the site? Is it going to front on 123? I'm going to go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead reduce the mass appearance. We're very into your return of developments. We've done that of a variety of properties in the area. We want to go into the field to see a gateway kind of location to a community. You know, what they've mentioned we're doing at Potomac Yars and residents in the Red Renaissance competition. We're looking at the city of Falls church right now to do the same urbanish kind of design and there is a lot of articulation in the building. Now, when we look at rain, rain brings, but if we can get your own needs. How many parking spaces are in here? Do you know? I think right now, for a proper course, I probably want to provide a 150 silver cylinder and counter-war punch. 150, 40, 50, 40. We get your all of the rendering scheme, on page two of six. The formula is one space. This is for man. Much better. We're loading one space for the first 10,000, one space for each additional 100,000. So, 108,000 square feet. We're talking basically two spaces. Right. And I guess my comments about the overall parking kind of head down the same road that Mr. Cunningham's do. I think 1 and 1 half is too many. We're talking about it, 150 units, we're talking about 225 spaces. The rendering is 154. But the principles that we've talked about in the master plan, one of the big principles would be shared parking, which we don't have now. So every structure is standalone and has to have sufficient parking based on the formula for that specific business. There's a restaurant next door that is, I don't know that it's ever been full, every parking space taken. There are other spaces around, there may be opportunities to enter into some agreements. There are a couple of little two-story office buildings that front on Eden Place, where maybe where maybe override parking can be arranged so that it's not necessarily on site. And I can theoretically envision a situation where you get more than enough vehicles for each room. But it's real hard to intellectually get to that point, having stated these places before and recognizing people do come to or to a car. So I think the parking issue needs to be thought about because I think one and a half, particularly when you have it elsewhere in the code, for other uses, one space per room. In section 110705, section 110635, it requires one space per room. So I think one and a half is extraneous. It argues against the concepts of the master plan. And I think part of the discussion we've got to have at some point is you don't get started until you get started. As tried as that may be. Until you begin to do some things, reflect the principles of the national plan. We'll never get this thing underway. This is kind of having them. Coach, one other question. And in this, we're developing a special definition for an extent as they hotel. Among the things we've talked about, our minimal public facilities, but public facilities nonetheless to accommodate breakfast, weight room, swimming pools, things along that line. When you use the term hotel or motel, what commonly comes to mind are extra functions, or external functions, that use the facility. What kind of functions would you functions that use the facility. What kind of functions would you expect to use that? You know, a wedding reception, a political vote gathering meeting, a conference for a small group that would be meeting and staying there? What kind of experience do you have with any kind of group activities at an extended stay hotel as opposed to another kind of facility that's a lodging facility? But our history with the residence in is that the functions for the meeting room is very small. It might be a thousand square feet. I think I'm going to look at the plan. What tends to be used for is people who are staying at the hotel, they might have a small meeting. It's not really, it doesn't really gear the handball meetings. It's not really with the power rally of the brand, is if you will. So most time it's you know, because there is no little kitchen catering that to be brought in. So it's not the kind of place you really have a wedding reception. It's nowhere near the size for that and the massing, which also helps from a parking standpoint because we aren't really looking to attract a lot of external groups, if you will, to the property for a big meeting. You're just not with the power rally of the brand is, if you will. Mr. Mucha. Okay. My question was long the same line as Mr. Cunningham. Are you expecting to use the, if I remember right in my last stand, is that long? I'm expecting to use the breakfast area or dinner reception area as the meeting area. Is that the idea? You know, not not true. It's a lot of times that it is as tables in the area. If you've been to the residence in you as tables set up for for meal functions What they've done the past it if is an internal meeting and it would overflow out of the meeting room because the meetings are small The way that they'll design is kind of like French doors and the meeting rooms and it could flow out But it's not really again conducive to it because you're going from meeting room passing a wall indoors So you can't really really have have a big meeting and spell out dramatically into what they call the heart for room. The heart thing is really nowadays it's really good toward being a lot more of a soft seating area with some tables for the breakfast. What's the place for someone can go and really like sit down and work under a computer, call a TV's in the background because we find today a lot of people don't want to work in their rooms. If you're traveling on business, you just don't want to go to your room, sit the desk, and kind of pump out the work. So people will come down so that's the great room in the case of residents in and then all of our courtyard hotels, agreed on all the lobbies and others. And I want to make it much more conducive to smaller groups kind of getting together and it's working on projects. so it's not really here as a meeting facility. Okay. Mr. Landon, any questions? No. Thank you. Mr. Post, I'll come back. Jim's coming up. With a slightly smaller parking requirement. Does that afford the opportunity for the structure to be moved eight feet or nine feet or whatever away from 123 to reduce the mass. So that was probably a little bit of a question building back from 123? Yeah, and then maybe have vegetation. Something along that line to break. I guess what I'm concerned with is a is a 60 foot sale. Right. Sitting there. Right there as you go by 1.23. I just- What would expect that? The pedestrian friendly as well. 25. Yeah. It seems funny. Right. What comment relating to that would be that I believe we're talking 1.23 in the master plan and or the development to be essentially the 5 plus 2 characteristic as it wraps around it goes north to 66. If I'm correct, are we planning for that? The 5 lanes down the middle and 2 lanes along the side, which is similar to what it is right now. Or, yes. It stays about the same and you've got a frontage road that comes down into the V dot property right now as I recall. It's six lanes with the median now. But don't you have any six lanes with an access road decided before you get into the proper V dot site. Will that access road stay or will the building come all the way out into the existing access room Before the site But I think you're talking about 123 side. I'm talking on the 123 side, yes. And as we are talking, a 5 plus 2 plus 2 configuration on Perfax Boulevard and the project to wrap Perfax Boulevard around with the drainage and take it up to 66. Are we talking essentially that access road wrapping and going up to beaten place in 66 as it comes around? Is that the way is it being designed to accommodate that? That's one of the concepts that's described in the Boulevard Master Plan. The right of way exists to be able to reconfigure from the existing six lane with the median to some of this depending on what with the road, you know, the individual aisles are, what with the sidewalk is, all that sort of thing. I think in review of a submission for this hotel, that's certainly something that needs to be reviewed. One thing we have not done is engineer this roadway. So we don't know exactly where and exactly from which side things would be pulled. So you know that does all need to be taken in context. Yeah, how do we how do you access your site coming down from the north? How do you access your site coming from Chantilly? On 123. I'm from. I'm excuse me. I've opened and from open. I want to do this. Turn left. I need to read on the access. Yeah. Yeah. In the place traffic signal. So the front of the road is going to go all the way down to the site. It is nice. Right. The entrance to the site. I think they've got an iron gate, I think, across it now. And it's paved beyond that because of V.O.T. uses. At the northeast corner of the site, there's remaining a small portion of the access or the V.O.T. site that crosses the frontage of this property that's going to be used also for their access. Yeah, because you have to access into the parking lot somewhere. If we were going to compare Hampton in with the residents in, what differences? Because you've started to describe a lot of the amenities that are in existing Hampton and perhaps more off-scale or. Hampton would be kind of a little bit more of a mid-market product they call it. So it's kind of competes with, we have a brand called Fairfield Inn. And it kind of snuggles up underneath our courtyard brand, if you like, as close as they can, the right umbrella of average rate up. Residents in, as a system last year, it's a Chancellor Mr. Khan's question also. We're in 78% occupancy as a system, all 550 hotels with an average rate of $122. So this is the highest end of all the Marriott hotels that are not full service as a resident said. I want to thank you and I think we're going to move ahead on our work session agenda. But I will say as we close this part of the work session, I think this is a very positive development for the city. And I'll add the fact that George Mason University also is considering, we don't have that much input into the process, but I'll tell it to serve the university environment at the southern entrance to the city. I think it's an interesting fit between serving our business community and its needs and trying to new families to the area as well as meeting the university. It's a very interesting time. Thank you, gentlemen, very much. Thank you. to the area as well as meeting the university. It's a very interesting time. Thank you, gentlemen, very much. Thank you. Good. Why don't we move on to the Fairfax Boulevard? And if staff could kick us off on that. Sure. Glad to do that. First thing I'm putting up on the screen is the Vision and Summary brochure which you all received. The glossy ones have not quite come back from the printer yet, but they will look exactly like the flat ones you have printed before you tonight. Okay. There are no changes to that. So that's what you will see. It is now online on the front page of the city's website. On the left hand side there is a button to click for the Vision Sum vision summary brochure which is broken up now to a first page, then a wide view of the center page and then again to the final page to make it a little bit more readable than when it was set originally in two long pages. So I just wanted to make everybody aware of that, that that brochure is out, and we expect over the next few weeks to be getting it out widely to the community. What I'd like to do if I may this evening is go over a PowerPoint presentation that basically describes the background on the Fairfax Boulevard Master Plan and what has been happening with this master plan over time. Essentially the city hired a consultant who shepherded this process through, went through initial presentation of a draft master plan in the spring of 2007. Final plan delivery took place earlier this year with some modifications that we received just in the last couple of weeks to finalize some changes that needed to be made to some background information in a couple of chapters. So now that plan in terms of the product that we've gotten from the consultant is in. We recognize with it that Fairfax Polar is our main economic and service corridor, and I'm going to give you just a little bit of background on this. The over-coal was the consultant who worked on it as the planning commission and the City Council set on the steering committee. We went through a charat process, citizen input, draft report, the summary brochure that you have in front of you, identifies really three ways that we need to go forward with this. One is to everybody agree on the first principles. There's a lot of stuff in this document and I'm going to briefly go over it and the city may or may not adopt all of these recommendations that are in this plan. But what we have done with the brochure that is out for the public that you have is agree on a set of first principles for this plan, big moves that we need to take in order to move this plan forward and what our implementation strategy should be. What are we trying to do? We're trying to make Fairfax Boulevard a great street. You know, instead of functioning as just a utilitarian roadway, that was originally conceived as a bypass around our community, and which in fact divides the community, we need to transform this Boulevard into a community asset. Make it a great street, guide redevelopment appropriately, provide an attractive and functional streetscape, and create some centers with active corridor areas. That gets you from the picture on the top, which is extensively large areas of asphalt to an image of where we could be. Change will occur on the community's terms. That's key. The size and scale of new development will reflect the community's terms. That's key. The size and scale of new development will reflect the community's desires. What you have in the lower corner is a sample page from what could be a future form-based code to help support some of our vision in some of these centers. The best way to realize this vision is to go through revising our land development regulations accordingly. We've got to do that. We're trying to grow a mix of uses, retail, restaurant, offices, housing, green space, civic uses, industrial, indeed. We need to interconnect the streets, make sure that we have park once destinations for people can come in and park and go between uses and encourage the integration of land uses, even require the integration of land uses to make it a real destination for people that are visiting and a gathering place for those of us that live in this community. It's got to be economically and visually varied. At the same time, we need to create a balance. This is a major thoroughfare. We have to make sure that the role of moving traffic still happens while we're trying to realize this vision. There's legendary traffic congestion here. It's an East West connector. We've got issues. No doubt about that. One of the ways to help dissipate some of that congestion is with an integrated street network that this plan visualizes and talks about. We've got to maintain adequate capacity in the Boulevard and be careful to do that, but at the same time, increase the safety and the aesthetics and reorient development away from the automobile. With physical design and appropriate use as we can do that, but how are we going to do it? It's not going to happen overnight. We've got to recognize that it's going to be an incremental approach. With a plan in place, it can involve per that vision. We need to set a parking strategy. We need to create a parcel assembly mechanism. We need to set acquisition priorities for large land assembly, right away parking open space and redevelop under utilized parcels. But we are looking at what can we do in the short term and what will happen to realize this vision over time. What are some of our big moves? How do we implement some of these principles that we have said are important? We just went over them, make the bull of art a great street. How do we do that? Allow change on our terms, support a mix of uses, balance traffic, plan for phasing and enable the market. Well, one way we do it is with revised regulations. Set the stage. Let's look at an appropriate design for the boulevard, the side streets, the parking, identify the key opportunity parcels, reinforce the identity of each of these centers and emphasize pedestrian areas. Form-based regulation is certainly part of that. We've got to talk about green relief in the connectors and planted areas. We've got to talk about redoing stormwater outfalls, preserving view sheds. What are we looking at as we're driving down the corridor? We are going to be our tree areas, our drainage basins. How are we accomplishing environmental goals besides public spaces and building? We've got to be looking at all of that. What are our special places? Well, this draft master plan identifies really five basic areas. The first would be Fairfax Circle. Fairfax Circle is a gateway to the community, but it's probably the most difficult to the three centers to work with. It's difficult in form, it's difficult in disparate ownership, and over time we'll be working on that one. Camp Washington is a little more complicated than Northbacks, which is in the middle, there's kind of an agiometry, there's some fragmented property lines. But if you break up that triangle into a grid of streets and create frontage, you can do a mixed use development. You could even accommodate what's one of our strong sectors, which is you could have an urban autosentor if you have to accommodate some of our folks there. In Northaxe, Northaxe is in the center. This is the location at which the future merit is proposed. This is probably our best opportunity to transform an aging suburbinary into town blocks. To do a connected street network, accommodate the pedestrian, put retail on the ground floor, put other uses above it, orient the buildings to streets, share parking. You know, if we have mid block structures here, we've shared parking and on street parking, we can do a lot. And stormwater features here can be well integrated into public spaces. I don't know if many of you have visited places like Frederick, Maryland. They've got wonderful canal through there that's a great public space. The East connector between Fairpack Circle and North Facts has the Ackene Creek on the North. The city has been very busy there with a lot of open space acquisition. Here we've got some deeper lots than we have in the other connector, which is on the other side. We might could do some buffering between the residential uses and future commercial uses. We've got a lot of streetscape improvements going on. We've got some nice lighting down in that corridor. We're trying to bury utility lines. We've got opportunities for cyclist lanes, bicycle lanes, and some good plans for transit in this area. The West Connector has very shallow lots, very shallow small lots, and it's a very complicated area. It's our hope that we'd be able to site new buildings closer to the boulevard and put some green buffer zones between them and the residential behind it, and maybe some pedestrian crosswalks to help get across there. This will probably be an area of small incremental change. We've had a recent small shopping center that's gone in there. Did it meet all of the goals as you asked earlier for this? No, it didn't. It didn't bring the buildings up to the street. But it has provided an incremental improvement to this area without doubt. The report has some recommendations to update transportation, land use, to administratively implement these and to put together some finance mechanisms. You know, when we're trying to create this successful pedestrian oriented, mixed use environment, we've really got to be careful to take care of our current residents and make sure that we're going to need to integrate the streets, any new street network that we do in the commercial development they are joined and the residential that they are joined so that we have protected all of these folks. Heated this is going to be eliminating gaps in that urban fabric that There's gaps in pedestrian access. It's not an easy place to walk all the way up. Gaps and services that occur, housing. There's a lot that we can do in the corridor. Gaps and infrastructure. Transportation Action Plan. These were sort of the big moves that came out of this. First was what has been called the 5 plus 2 configuration. It's a multi-way boulevard with single lanes on either side of the boulevard that are one way with on-street parking. We need to look at better traffic signal coordination and speed. Speed along this area is going to be critical. If we establish, you know, a 35 mile per hour speed along here, it is a different kind of a roadway and accommodates different kind of development than if it's 40 or 45 town centers. We're going to need new signals in those areas with lots of pedestrian crossings. And are these things going to affect level of service? Yeah, they probably are. And we need to be able to accept a certain level of that and offload it under some of the side street areas as well. Let's talk a little bit about existing conditions. Right now we have two lanes, we've got a median, and on the side we have in general, vast areas of parking, and the buildings are over here somewhere. On this side we might have parking in front and the buildings here. Step one, and that's what we've talked about this being incremental. All right, let's start on this side of the boulevard. Let's try and put in place one of the side streets. Take out the big heavy median, put in a maybe a textured median with two lanes in each direction and then one way here with parking. Step two, let's have a build two line. Let's get these buildings built up to that street. Plant it, begin to create sort of a boulevard effect. And over time, have a place that's worthy of driving down that set of uses that the pedestrian would want to walk in. We're turning a street or highway into a boulevard or a great street. That's the overarching view of this. So what do we need to do? Design and implement street grids and prove intersections, do transit, plan for parking and bicycles and pedestrians. Well, land uses we have to do. Well, we've got to go forward and this body's goal to the major recommendations into the comprehensive plan. Let's look at form-based code and see in specific areas, especially these centers where they work. Implementing them in advance of potential development is the ideal, but what do we do in the meantime? There is it later on in the slides, we've got to have some kind of interim policies in place to try and deal with some of these issues. And we'll talk about that briefly. Look at residential development along the corridor. Where does it belong and how much should there be? And figure out how we're going to do our public spaces. Gotta get the staffing in place to do it. We've got to go out and make sure we've got all the physical and regulatory conditions in place. Set up strategies for all of these different aspects of development, work with the property owners and generally market the boulevard. Look at tax increment financing. Here we're going to pay for it. Here we're going to pay for the parking? How are we going to pay for new transportation improvements and beautification? Next step. First thing is to get that brochure out and start talking to the public about buy-in on this. Establish