I'm in commission meeting Monday December 10 2007. Please join us in the Pledge of Allegiance. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you agenda for this evening. Yes. Thank you. Is there a consensus on the agenda? Yes. All right. So moved. Are there any presentations by the public this evening for items not on the agenda? Okay, seeing none, we'll move on right onto the public hearing for the capital improvement program for fiscal year 2008 through nine and 2012 through 13. Is there a motion to open the hearing? Okay, is there anyone here who would like to make a presentation relative to the public hearing? I know we'll have a staff presentation. Okay. Why don't we begin with the staff presentation and we can keep the floor open for public presentations for afterwards. Thank you, Chairman Barenbaum. What we're going to give you this evening is a recap of last week's meeting for the benefit of the viewing audience and a general run down on what the capital improvement program is and what the new features of this year's program are. First with respect to the capital improvement program in general. It's the main tool that we use to implement the comprehensive plan and all other adopted city policies. It's a planning document, a strategic planning document that spans out a period of five years. It involves a systematic evaluation of all the capital projects on tap, either equipment that the city needs to get or public improvements and major infrastructure repairs. It's a way that the city can prepare and implement an efficient and effective provision of public facilities and it outlines the timeline for bringing these facilities on board and the financing schedule for all capital projects. The Planning Commission is involved in this process as a major player. The process by which the Planning Commission reviews the CIP is laid out in the state code. Subject to City Council directive, the Planning Commission is asked to look at this plan to make sure that the things that are contained therein are actually positive implementation tools that are not running contrary to the city's adopted policies. The Planning Commission reviews the CIP which is initially proposed and brought forward by the city staff. You review it for consistency with the city policies and can recommend program changes to the council for their consideration. And as you have done in the past, call out specific items to the council that you wish to call to their attention as being important items to implement the comprehensive plan. You conduct a work session which occurred last week to receive input from senior staff and to get presentations on the projects that were posed. Staff is here again this evening. Can the various departments to answer any questions that you may have as follow-up? Thereafter you conduct a public hearing to receive input from the community and to further discuss the issues. PC review should be focused on the implications of this capital improvement program on land uses and other broad planning issues rather than on specific merits of individual projects or the timing of individual projects. The City Council thereafter, with the planning commissions recommendations, will receive input from staff planning commission in the public while during its review process. And it marries together the projects that are in this plan with budgetary considerations and carefully ways these against one another to decide in any given budget year what will be financed. It includes balancing, timing, and financing and where the money is coming from to pay for these various projects. They are the final approval authority for the CIP. Once it's approved, staff is then responsible for implementing it and making sure that it occurs, it has been approved. Your staff here, Joe LeHeight and David Hodgkin, the Assistant City Manager, will present the rest of the presentation. Great, thank you. Thank you very much. Good evening and good numbers. What's your name? I'm sure what that was. We'd like to start off by going over a summary of the work session from the previous week just to hit the points that we're discussing. There were questions relating to revenues and other financial matters that are contained in the proposed capital improvement program document. Some of the questions related to revenues increasing greatly from one year to the next. And those revenues change because of a couple of different things. One is the changing real estate market where we only had revenues increasing or projected revenues to increase by about 2% over the previous year. And that increases due solely to new construction. It does not relate to an actual increase in existing properties. There's a mix of commercial residential assessments. We actually show residential assessments going or projected to go down while commercial continues to rise. Meals tax and personal property taxes, those revenues increase greatly from one year to the next, and that relates to actual increases in the rates and the meals tax rate went up from 2% to 4% basically doubling that the revenue from that source. That's over a $2.3 million increase in the meals tax. Personal property tax also increased by $3.4 from $3.79 for $100 of assessed value to $4.13, which equates to about a $2.2 million increase in that estimated revenue. There was also a question relating to other sources of other and miscellaneous sources of revenue, which combines a variety of different accounts. And notably, the increase from the fiscal Euro 5.06, which there was a large increase, was based on or due to increased investment, return on our investments because we had more money to invest due to additional financing and also because the rates did go up substantially in that period. We also had increased rental income and we did have an increase in financing from the library. Basically that was income that we received from Fairfax County as part of our library project. To continue with a financial overview, our debt and capital least financing, what we have in our proposed CIT does include all financing today, with the exception of the Lemno School that we had purchased for $4 million. The reason that's not included is because that property, the city does plan to sell the majority of that property and pay off the debt that relates to that in the fiscal year. So we don't anticipate that being having a financial impact in fiscal year 09. The five year forecast, as we normally show, there was a deficit or projected deficit in the initial financial forecast of about $7.6 million for fiscal year 2009 of that, the CIP makes up $5.7 million. And that is really our starting point. That assumes that there are not going to be any changes in any of the tax rates or fees. And of course, as we go through the process, we will strive to reduce expenditures and look for other sources of revenue if we can. But again, that is the starting point for our process. There were general comments relating to notes for some of the graphs and charts and also other insight into the assumptions and historical variances in which we can, there are areas in which we can make, I think some of the graphs and probably charts and assumptions a little clearer to the reader and those are improvements that we can make to the adopted budget and future proposed budgets. We want to go over the CIP projects which we've been discussed in the last meeting and just to go quickly through what we covered. Of course, we have schools, general government, parks and recreation, environment and transportation. And we'd like to start with our new CIP projects. Those are projects that had not been included or had not been in the CIP in previous years. Some of these projects have been in the five year extended five year plan, but have not been included or it's the O-Fiscal Year O-9 is the first year in which, the first time that they're actually hitting our CIP. But we do have three projects or two in the fire department, which are first year projects. One is meaning that in fiscal year 09, that is the first year that they showed up. And it's the first time it has shown up in the five year projection. And the reason for that first item showing up without being included in the CIP in the past is that fire station three maintenance is something that the city had not planned on in the CIP in the past is that Fire Station 3 maintenance is something that the city had not planned on in the past. The volunteer fire department had maintained that facility and the city is planning on future planning on maintaining that property also to make sure that we keep our investment as well maintained as possible. The next item, the propane simulator equipment, that's the IP project. It's, it did not show up in last year's CIP book, but it was a probably, it is not a new project. It was discussed in the process last year, but it was taken out because the fire department was, took that out to actually try to get grant funds to pay for that project. And they were unable to get those grant funds so it is now brought back into the CIP. The item on the bottom, the police radio replacement, that item is in the book for the first time. And the reason for that is that the Fairfax County, the Fairfax City Police Department is all in the Fairfax County system. And through the last year, Fairfax County has decided to move forward with a new technology for their radio equipment and the city does have to follow suit. And so that is added in this year for that purpose. Under our Rex and community appearance department, we actually do have quite a few new projects. And there are a few of these. It actually just one that is new for the first time in the CIP book, which is the second one down, which is the Ranger Road Bridge replacement. And the reason that had not shown up before and is showing up now is that through inspections, you know, it was determined that the fridge is in worse condition than not only initially thought, but it is not going to last. We don't believe through its estimated life. So it did deteriorate quicker than we had anticipated. And the Parks and Rec Department now has a new, really new maintenance and inspection practice in which they are looking much closer at a lot of the bridges and other facilities that they have to determine early on if those. What maintenance is required or what replacement is required. And the rest of these projects have been included in the CIP in the past. And as time moves on, they become too for replacement or to be brought online. The next item is dealing with environment and transportation. Stream restoration, acting creek is a new project. In that project, we will actually have a new project and that project We will actually have a work study on that in January Due to or as a result of the storms in July of 2006 We had or city council had required or requested city staff to have a study done of the Creek because of the erosion and the for drainage that we experience after severe storms. And based on those results, we anticipate that we will be going forward to make improvements to the acting creek. Under transportation, we have two items that were also in the program for the first time and they show up in Fiscal Univ. And the first is the emergency power battery backup system. And the reason that's in there at this time and not push further back into the future is that the tech now this is something that the public works department has been looking at for some time, but the technology now has been made available and affordable and it's something that they have, the products that are out there now are considered to be quality products that we would like to bring online. And that was not the case in the past. Also, we had the Q bus money, where we've moneyed for the Q buses in a amount of over $3 million. And the reason that's being brought on to the CIP for the first time is that this does relate to a grant that was approved in the summer of this year in which we received a grant for over $3 million for high-red buses. And so that is something that is new for the city we We're also very excited about and we do have the money and we will be going forward with that. But we will make sure in the future too, that even though we're to clear our money for the buses comes through a different source, as it normally comes out of the general fund, that we will make sure that it does show up in our CIP, future CIP project list. We also went over certain projects that were removed from the CIP projects that were there in the past and have been taken out at this current year. And to go through those quickly under schools, we had security lock system for the elementary schools. And the reason that was taken out of the CIP is because Fairfax County actually hit the work and so we would not required to pay for it ourselves or obviously have it in our capital improvement program. Also the boiler replacement for Westmore Elementary School, that project actually was taken out of the schools but it is still in the CIP book. So that one has not been eliminated. It's just been moved from one section to the next. And that's because the school board no longer owns the West Marlimentary School, the city does. At this point, that's why it was moved from one place to another. The next item, the under general government, which is the city hall maintenance, that was taken out because we actually had a supplemental appropriation during this current year to actually have that work done While we were doing the other work in renovating city hall and made more sense to do it all at one time It's as opposed to continuing the construction after we finished with the main renovation at this time So it's not that that item was eliminated. It was just done earlier than originally anticipated. Under the Parks and Rec and Community Appearance, we had several projects that were taken out. And many of these projects were taken out of the CIP. Simply because financing was, we occurred during this fiscal year for many of these projects, such as the Draper Drive field replacement, the Draper Park field replacement, Draper Park field lighting and also the Stafford West designing construction. Those items did relate to bond monies that we did or financing that occurred earlier in the year. The Westmore Field Construction that was actually removed by Council for funding purposes. And a lot of it has to do with other parks projects that we have going on and that we are funding. The Van Dyke Park, Volfield Lights, that was actually taken out since Draper Drive and Stafford Westfield will be coming online. We don't feel that it, there's no longer the need to have lights at the end of the park and we didn't think those the best use for that park. The Ranger Road Fit Trail replacement was actually reduced, the scope of that project was reduced and we actually funded it out of current operating funds. That project was actually taking care of in the current fiscal year. The Ted Ridge Boulevard Bridge replacement was done or completed with existing funds also. So that project was completed but was not so as no longer needing funding. The linear middle school synthetic turf is no longer, we feel that it's any longer needed because again we are planning on and we have financed the draper drive park in the Stafford park synthetic turf projects which we think will give us the capacity that we need and no longer need at this time to add synthetic turf to the linear middle school fields. The basketball court expansion at Ranger Road, that was no longer, we don't feel that that project is, that we will go forward with that project, because that basketball court is actually in floodplain and it would cause a lot of issues to actually try to expand that basketball court in a floodplain, so that's no longer considered a doable part. Going forward just to give some basic information on the process that we're going through, we had listed the main dates for our budget calendar. And we have January 14th to 18th, is actually our agency budget meetings where the budget team will actually meet the different department heads to go over their budgets and that would be CIP budgets and operating budgets. And that's really when the process, I would say the process really begins for the staff. We have tentatively planned a planning commission meeting. If the planning commission wishes to have another public hearing on the CIP. And that's not a item that we are pushing, but we want to leave that open in case you want to jill hate on myself to show up to continue discussions with the CIP. But if it's not, we typically in the past have not had two public hearings of the planning commission just typically one. We'd like to stick with the one if that is, if the planning commission feels that they have received all the information that they need, but again, we'll leave it up to the planning commission. March 11th is when the city manager's proposed budget is due,'ll be presented to the public and the council. March 18th and 19th are when the agencies or the department heads will make their budget presentations to the council. March 25th will be a council public hearing on the budget. In April 1st, that will also be planned on having a public outreach meeting in work session. And again, these items relate to the operating in CIP budgets. And the budget adoption we're stating is to be determined that day typically it happens in early mid-April in which the council adopts the budget that budget adoption date may be pushed back two or three weeks. And so we'll keep everyone informed as that materializes. We will have a work session on that item in early January 8th actually. In conclusion, what the staff is looking for, and I think the council is looking for, from the Planning Commission, really into this process, is getting their concurrence, or opinion as to the consistency with the comprehensive plan in adopted city policies, stating basically after your review of the capital improvement project, do the Planning Commission agree that it is in a consistent with the comprehensive plan. And we also look for recommended program changes that the planning commission may have. And of course any program priorities that the commission would like to bring forward. And with that, we'd like to open up for questions. Thank you, Mr. Hodgkins. Ms. Connysa, it was very informative and a good recap of our work session from last week. For the benefit of some of the folks on the commission who are not here last week, although I believe staff shared the DVD of the proceedings with you. There were two items that we sort of flagged for discussion this evening. And one, which I think is important to note even though it wasn't on the slide presentation. There seem to be quite a bit of consensus in the parks and recreation budget with regard for the need for a strategic plan. The staff and the chair of the commission gave a very good presentation which I think we as a group respond very favorably to. And the other issue was along the route 123 corridor. There seemed to be a number of proposals for that route that were being pursued individually by various departments, but we felt we may benefit from some community input, from the civics along the route, as well as for some coordinated examination of needs along that transportation corridor. We flag that for attention this evening as well. But I'd like to open it up to the commissioners if they do have any questions for staff. Mr. Fritz-Selv? No, I don't have any questions to see. Okay. Mr. Fritz-Selv? No. No. Okay. Mr. Kelly, in. One comment. And I would like to follow on with a comment that I made last time as to again thank staff, especially Mr. Le Hato, I did believe to the bulk of the work for changing the format so that we can more easily review projects this year and for adding projects that have been newly added in bold type so that we can see when the changes were made and when they impact the plan. I think that's made it much easier to go through the document this year and given as much better information and a way to focus our questions instead of having to appear to be on a fishing expedition. So I think that has been very beneficial and would like to say thank you. Thank you. Mr. Foster. Well, I was not here. And my exposure to this plan is from the DVD. So I had a couple of observations that I would like to make. I would strongly second Mr. Cunningham remarks. I think the structure of the CIP was quite good this year. Much easier to work through with the delineation of the functions. And the presentations seemed to tie better with the comp plan, which is what we're all about anyway. And to the department heads, even though I only got to see the backs of your heads from that screen, and an alarming increase in ball spots, you did a good job. I enjoyed it, and I got something from it. Some of the thoughts that I had after reviewing that and I had the advantage of having my feet up on the table so I didn't have to sit at the table like the other members of the Planning Commission last week. I got to watch it Sunday morning. Some form of prioritization would still be nice. I don't know how you do that, whether it's a point system or some other approach, but that would be a nice maybe unrealistic goal to shoot for. One of the thoughts that did occur to me on a more serious vein is that maybe we need to include projects that can be used for profits. And that's more of a recognition of the fact that the form of profits as we begin redevelopment throughout the city is going to change. And there are opportunities in the environmental areas, say, Restormdrainage or transportation or with the new master plan, public art, fountains, that sort of thing where we may look for different types of proffers from the developers. They don't necessarily have to be on site. Excuse me. The other reference that I heard several times during the discussions last Monday was the term placeholder. And some of those placeholders had dollars or most of them did or they wouldn't have been in here. I think for the most part the policy decisions have been made prior to funding. So that if we're looking at parks and recreation for example or a vehicle replacement line that is pretty well delineated in the comprehensive plan and what we're trying to do is the city in terms of our livability and the amenities and keeping our assets of the city up to date. There were other items where the funding seems to be occurring before the policy decision and three that come to mind were the discussion about rent with cemetery where we've made a decision to wait and take over the property without trying to get in touch with all the heirs and buy it. But we still have money in the budget for that. We have the long discussion and the number of items on the 123 card or a risk curve where we're putting money in, but we don't necessarily have a direction from the governing body on what we're trying to accomplish. And then the last one that quickly came to mind was all the highway, where it's been discussed and discussed, and no action has been taken, no decision has been made, but there's still money in the budget. So it seems to me that maybe we need to think next year about a placeholder section rather than trying to merge them in. To remind us that we need to look at those items and think about how we're going to bring them forward, rather than just merging them in the deck with all the other options that we have. And last but not least, I gave each of you the spreadsheet that I did from the information that I received from Mr. LeHaid. I have not given, I don't think I did I give you a copy? I didn't give Mr. Lahite a copy Well, I've got you at a disadvantage now, but anyway There are two differences on this spreadsheet between the Numbers that Mr. Lahite may be referencing and what we may look at the first is that In the far right column fiscal year 2009 through 13, I just totaled the five years that the CIP is to cover. I did not include the 08 fiscal year, which is already adopted, and in many cases spent. So I was looking forward on that number, and then I added back to the 808 numbers just for reference purposes only, the pre-funded designation, that 315,000 that went back right at the 1159 mark on the budget calculations. It would seem to me, I don't really understand, pre-funded. I mean, I know how it arises and where it comes from, and I understand the process, but it would seem to me that it would be no big deal just to add it back into the CIP. Rather than carrying it out there as an item that doesn't appear anywhere. So anyway, that's what I got from the DVD. And if I could comment on the CIP and the pre-funding, which is kind of a unique item, and it's a kind of philosophical way of it could be handled a couple of ways. And the way it is handled currently, it's treated like any other supplemental appropriation and years that we've been fortunate enough to have excess money in one in the current fiscal year. We sometimes would look at projects that we have coming up and some of those projects can be done immediately. And if we do have extra money in the current year and it looks like we'll have a tough budget year, we actually do, it's basically a supplemental appropriation for those whichever projects that we happen to choose that can be done in the current fiscal year. So it is handled as any other supplemental appropriation because in addition to what we show in our CIP is an adopted last year's adopted CIP budget, it does not include other capital projects that have been approved throughout the year including those items we call pre-funded items. And that's, and it may be the best way to handle that. We could actually to actually look at a particular year, we could probably do a summary of not just the pre-funded items, but other CIP items, and perhaps in a document or summary, we could always have those listed out to show or we could share the list of those projects. So someone could get the full extent of what we actually spent in a particular year on what we consider CIP projects. Well, I'm only speaking to the CIP items. One of them was the 110,000 city hall maintenance that was taken out of the CIP and then put back in as a pre-funded item. Another was the 50,000 that Chief Rapp report referenced on vehicle replacement. The 50,000 deferred, the 50,000 reduced, took him down to 80,000 and then 50,000 was added back as a pre-funded item. And then in the overall vehicle replacement CIP portion, 155,000 was reduced and then added back. So it would seem to me that if you're taking them out of the CIP and then spending it on the same item that was in the CIP, we're talking about a capital expenditure. It doesn't convert into a current expense. Well, as we're pre-funding it. Well, it's not just pre-funding a lot. Oftentimes the work will actually be done in the current fiscal year before. For example, we have pre-funded various automobiles or trucks in the current fiscal year. Before, for example, we have pre-funded various automobiles or trucks in the past. And pre-funding it, if we do the pre-funding in April, for example, the money becomes available in April and they might buy the car or the truck in June or May. So the money's not just available, but sometimes is, and the intent is to actually have it spent. We do look for projects that actually can be accomplished in the current fiscal year. But it is true, those pre-funded items truly are items that we would take off of the future proposed and just fund those, fund those in oftentimes complete those projects or start those projects in the current fiscal year. And I was simply stating that there are other projects, CIP projects that we have supplemental appropriations for throughout the year too, that will not show up in any of the CIP documents because there were projects that were decided on during fiscal year. And so they did not make it into the budget book or into the CIP books, but they are capital projects. And that typically have some of those in each year. And of course the CIP project or the pre-funded projects we have, and that happens in good years, typically, and not some of the more difficult years. I don't think we'll see any pre-funded this year quite honestly. But at your point, as we'll take and understand what you're saying. We briefly spoke about the community center that there were no developments, least sufficient developments for us to take any action relative to the CIP, that negotiations were still underway between the third party and the city relative to a donation. My question to staff has to do with the timing of that. For example, if we were to have a subsequent hearing in late January, would there be additional information for us possibly to review or to act upon? And that could, there could be an agreement, this will, the community center will be discussed. I believe tomorrow night. And so we may have some information on that relatively sooner, or at least understand what we are working with the dollar amounts and perhaps the type of project that we're looking at. So my question is to staff relative this would be would that necessitate or suggest to the Planning Commission that we should take a fresh look at the parks and recreation or related budgets for the CIP. I can take a look at the fresh look if we get to that point in January. Tomorrow night it will be a discussion on Van Dyke and also look at the agreement as well. And I will discuss tomorrow night by the City Council. By City Council, yes. And there will give you enough time to get up to speed. But there's a lot of details that will have to get worked out over a period of time. If we are to move forward the community's size, the types of amenities are going that highlight this place or has to replace things at Van Dyke. That's not going to happen. And there will be some leeway if there is an agreement to go forward that there's enough time to answer all those questions, have public input and also have input from folks like yourself. This is cutting into the geopolitical point question. Yes. From the comments that were just made, if I heard correctly, there are projects that don't make our CIP book that come up after the CIP program has been adopted during the current fiscal year. And the project comes up after that time frame. Also, money comes available to do that project during the current fiscal year. And as such is allocated so that the project can be completed during that year. And so it is and as such there's no need to bring it up for the following year's book if I heard correctly that that's one possibility. Now let me ask a second one that's tied into this and it's that there potentially would be a private donation for a community center. We currently, as I understand it, do not have a Parks and Recreation Master Plan for what we're anticipating as projects for all of our parks and what we'd like to go as a good road map. But it's possible then that we're going to make changes in a capital way to our public facilities. in a capital way to our public facilities. And I presume that a private donation then to construct a facility would also bring with it certain expectations of what kind of facility and how it would be gone about because that typically I think rides with that kind of a contribution. But my question comes down to what is our process then for tying those into the capital improvement program in either case in terms of the oversight project and that most of the capital program to come up out of the staff agencies are vetted through public hearings by the Planning Commission and or City Council, but these seem to be two instances in which projects would come through our capital program without many of those processes interacting with them. Well, and that is true that there are certain projects that will not go because obviously this is an annual process that we go through. So things do occur from in between the period of the approval or the review of the proposed CIP until we get to the process again in the following year. And of course it is a public process if we ever do appropriate money for any capital project or any of the even operating expenses. Of course it has to go before council. I would think that there are going to be items, this community center for example that will have to go through. I imagine that will go through the planning commission to actually have the work done. So we'll come back to the planning commission, but as far as the financing of that would go, it could happen in a couple different ways. Typically in this situation that we would still, even though even if the donor was going to pay forth the facility or the construction of the facility, the city would actually receive the money and have to spend the money. So there would be a supplemental appropriation made at some time in which they would have to approve the actual spending of the money. Of course, that's after the Council approves of the agreement. So in that case, we don't bring forward that project through our CIP process because it is occurring off cycle. And of course, we're not sure exactly. We'll know more tomorrow as to what the time is of this main day. But yes, there are things that occur during the year that obviously can't wait for the next budget cycle. And so you have additional appropriations, you know throughout the year The I think it's safe to say that any additional appropriations related to a Community Center of Endite wouldn't happen in the next fiscal fiscal year. There's enough planning that would have to go on with Scope of the project that it wouldn't start to impact eventually until you know 2009-2010. Okay. Okay. This was Pumphrey. I just want to, you sort of reiterated the point I was going to make, which is that planning a community center is not a month long project and that the goal of the CIP and the role of the planning commission is really to make sure that these projects are in congruence with the comprehensive plan and the city policies and procedures. I really see it as a staff job to make sure that when projects occur out of cycle to make sure that they go through a public process, which I think this one certainly would. I can't imagine that there would be something like of this nature that wouldn't have lots and lots of visibility. And I'm sure that the planning commission will be involved in that and that staff already sound like they're thinking through what the funding possibilities are going to be. And I think what we can do as planning commissioners is make sure that we position the city in a good spot to accept through the planning process, like having a master plan for the parks in a good position to accept this kind of opportunity and move forward with it. Yeah, and I just want to concur. I think that Mr. Cunningham and this Pumphrey's remarks are very well stated. The reason I raised the issue is because I just received my edition of City Scene Newsletter at home, and the way I read the announcement that appeared to me that some of the designing and some of the other aspects of planning for this potential donation are moving right along. And I do think it will be a much healthier process, the more public discussion and public input there is into it. But I think it's a wonderful discussion and staff and the city is to be congratulated if this does occur. Thank you. We are, are there any more questions for staff relative? Mr. Cullian? One was that yes, and part of my comment I think was to be a plug if you will for support of the park's master plan because that a project like that should be included in things that we have looked at as intended actions and it's very beneficial when they come along that way. The second one would be a remaining question in a project coming along during the year and the review process because if there's capital improvement money, I gather a judgment that is being made to not do one of the unfunded projects on the capital improvement list, one that didn't make the cut, and a decision has been made then to use capital improvement money to do something that never went through the process. And the adjudication of those two, I guess, is where my question was, and who and how that occurs, because it's capital improvement money and theoretically could be sourced in a couple of different ways. Well, in a lot of cases, we do, of course, we've had several very good years financially where we've had a surplus. It makes it a little easier when a project does come up that we feel it needs to be done right away. And oftentimes, for example, it could be, there are oftentimes emergency things where we may have a boiler that's going and we don't have a choice, but we have to replace it. It could have been in the CIP for years down the road or from the following year or a generator, things like that. We will need to do a supplemental appropriation at that time and either take it out of and either take it out of the cycle, take it out of the CIP or we're replacing something that wasn't in the CIP before. We've had, for example, some of the CIP projects that we had approved through the process, sometimes there have been cost overruns because of the escalating fuel cost, materials cost, labor cost, in which we would do supplemental appropriations and to actually, you know, complete the project. And obviously those are things that, you know, we did not anticipate and was not included in the CIP process at the beginning of the year, but those items do occur. And we have items such as that pop up, which is unique. Having a community center pop up or opportunity to perhaps build a community center, and especially when we do have funds coming in to help us with it or to actually complete the project. And so that item isn't necessarily going to pop up. Something, we surely didn't expect a year ago. And so that's things like that to occur outside of the process, but there is a public process for each one of these. And there is a public hearing for each one of these items. And depending on what type of project it is, it would be something, sometimes some of these projects obviously would come through the planning commission and in others wouldn't. For example, we're not going to, if we have to replace a boiler, that's not something that the planning commission is probably necessarily interested in, though if we're building community center, there probably is some interest in what that center is going to be and what will be included in it and how it's being done. But in each one of these cases it is a very public process and matter of fact any time the council spends money or the city staff spends money it has to be we have to have council approval and that has to be can only occur through a public hearing. And with regard to the community center there is information also on the city website, which is very helpful. And I believe citizens can contact staff. There's a number for folks to call if they're interested in learning more about how this is progressing. And I thought that was terrific. Any other questions for staff? I just wanted to ask to sort of refresh my own memory of the rest of us that were here last week. I thought there were two other items, maybe a third one that we talked about adding. I remember the Parks and Recreation Master Plan. The alternatives to the one growth curveoss curve in 123 Carter. I thought we also talked about supporting projects that continue the investment in the school infrastructure. Because we had a discussion about the zeros in the 2008 budget and concern of we're making sure that we don't do anything that undermines that. And the other item that I don't know whether we discussed was, but I know we've discussed in previous years, was something about the public safety issues. Like, I would be particularly concerned about, and I think there was a good case made with a technology piece of moving with the county and making sure that we're not caught behind and then have an unintended consequence of having to catch up very quickly. So I would really want to make sure we're thinking about those couple of things. So I just want to make sure I was remembering that correctly from the last time. Yeah, those were definitely points that we discussed. I'm not sure they were ultimately great upon us recommendation points, but they were definitely follow-up points. For example, I think we've invited the school board representatives who were here to give us more information relative to that outstanding budget issue. So we should follow up with them to see if they want to replace those zeros or not. And then related to the public safety issues, I think we were that the presentation involved sort of to some extent, a wait and see to see what the system finally would be in the county as a whole, but to be prepared for it as we move ahead. But definitely that was, I think the feeling of the commission was consensus around that. What I'd like to do is invite anyone, if they are here to testify at the public hearing, to come forward now, introduce themselves, so we can put it into the record. Otherwise, we can at the public hearing to come forward now, introduce themselves so we can put it into the record. Otherwise, we can close the public hearing and move into a general discussion with the commission. Is there anyone who's here would like to testify for the record? Seeing none, we'll close the comment. Yes, please. I think before you close the public hearing, do you want to continue it? You should have your discussion to continue it to the end of January, because I want you close it as close and we won't revisit it. Fair enough, that's a good point. Why don't we have a discussion to see how people feel about what we have discussed today, if there's a need to continue the hearing for January? Let me just double check with staff. Would that be a continued hearing or could that be a separate hearing? Yes, I think if you chose to go to January, you could continue the public hearing to a date certain and that date would be the January 28th meeting. If you don't mind, you all had summarized different points and there was one other point I think that was talked about at that meeting. And then I've tried to recapture those in about six or seven items that you could choose to put in a resolution to go forward to town council. One thing that we didn't talk about tonight but that you did talk about last week was to ensure that capital projects that were proposed for the Route 29 corridor were consistent with the pending adoption of Fairfax Boulevard Master Plan and didn't run out ahead of those. So with your permission, I'll just sort of summarize the items that might fall under this resolution for be it further resolved. It could say something like be it further resolved that the Planning Commission strongly recommends as program priorities that the City Council won fund the Parks and Recreation Master Plan as an important element of the 2008 comprehensive plan review process. for a community center, at Van Dyke Park, or thoroughly vetted, and that capital improvement is proposed for the project being included in the next CIP cycle. Three ensure that capital projects proposed for the Route 29 corridor are consistent with pending adoption of the Fairbanks Boulevard Master Plan. Four carefully consider the suitability and consistency. It proposed pedestrian and safety improvements on the route 123 quarter and seek additional public input for those projects. Five. Support projects that continue maintaining the school's infrastructure and six monitor public safety requests for consistency with surrounding communities. I think that sort of summarizes the issue. That's very helpful. Thank you for capturing all of those in your notes. So why don't we have a brief discussion as far as if we're first, if we have omitted anything from our discussions discussions if there are other issues to be included. And also if there folks feel there's a need for continuing the hearing into January 28th, please. I guess the question would be what you think might come up or what else you think you need to hear. Certainly, we don't have public input tonight. That's not unusual. You know, you have to decide whether there's anything else you feel you need to hear, anybody else we need to hear from. You know, the process that we've gone through before is that by the time this gets to City Council, there are changes. We did make some recommendations in the text of the document as well last week. So, you know, from my perspective, I'm not seeing or hearing additional things that I would want necessarily to follow up on. I don't know what the rest of the planning commissioners say. Mr. Foster? No, no, Mr. Fitzgerald. Mr. Fitzgerald? My inclination is that, as a staff, feels that there's substantially major issues that might come to their attention in the next month or so that we, is not would not be in necessity for another, to contain the public hearing or have another meeting in January. Mr. Foster. The only open item that I've heard is related to schools. But otherwise it seems like it's in pretty good shape. It's a different ball game from last year, much more organized. It is. Mr. Cunningham. I think I would concur with that, and I don't think the school's item is so open in that we're stating that because the construction has taken most of those projects out and put them under a bigger umbrella that as individual projects come back, we need to ensure that they are included. And I think we've stated that and Stanford's picked it up. So I don't know that schools would require us to hold it open. Okay. And I have to say from the work session last week, I was very comfortable with the staff responses with regarding Fairfax Boulevard and some of the concerns about how to develop in North Fax and related issues with infrastructure. I thought it was very pragmatic. The approach suggested by staff. Relative to Route 123 though, I do think it behooves the staff and possibly a follow-up discussion whether it be work session or otherwise for the planning commission. Early next year to follow-up with that issue just so that we have a comfort level that the outreach to the community has occurred. Again, that's a high traffic area. It's a residential area in many areas. And I think it would it would be a good idea for us to pay a little attention to some of the projects along that corridor. So I also concur that I don't see the need to continue this hearing as open to January 28th. Would someone like to make that as a motion to close the public hearing? I move that in the interest of the public health, safety and welfare planning commission adopt the attached resolution with recommendations for the proposed fiscal year 2008-09-2012-13, capital improvement program. Is there a second? Second the motion. Okay. Is there any discussion? Just making sure that we add the modifications that Miss Cudeloso read so aptly. Great. And could you read them one more time? Please. Thank you. Well, the further resolved that the Planning Commission strongly recommends as program priorities that the City Council fund the Parks and Recreation Master Plan is an important element of the 2008 Comprehensive Plan Review. Number two, ensure that any plans for a community center at Van Dyke Park are thoroughly vetted and the capital improvements be included in next capital improvements program cycle Three, ensure that the capital projects proposed for route 29 corridor are consistent with pending adoption of the Fairfax Boulevard Master Plan four carefully consider proposed pedestrian safety improvement the suitability and consistency of proposed pedestrian and safety improvements on the route 23 corridor and seek additional public input on these projects. Five support projects that continue appropriately maintaining the school's infrastructure. Six monitor public safety, consistent, so public safety improvement, forget the word I put in there, monitor public safety proposals for consistency with surrounding communities. I did not add and should have a number seven, which was sort of a no-brainer, which is a proof all enterprise or externally funded request as you had led. Thank you. You had included that. That was already in there. Good. Thank you. So is that accepted to the motion as a friendly? Good. Friendly amendment? Very good. Any other discussion? We'll call the question. All those in favor? Please say aye. Aye. Okay. So we have the unanimous vote. Once again, I'd like to thank all the department heads for very professional presentations this year, which were very helpful in our deliberations. Thank you, it would be commended. Great. All right, I'd like to also request that if there are any developments relative to the community center that they've reported to us for discussion at the meeting for January 14th. We can add that to our work program discussion, which we'll have a little bit later. Moving on to item number four, consideration of minutes for October 22nd, 2007. Did everyone have a chance to take a look at those? Are there any corrections? Move the adoption. Second. Okay. Well, those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Okay, passed unanimously. Thank you. Okay. The next item is the discussion of the 2008 work program. Ms. Kulasa. Thank you. I've given you, in brief, a list of the upcoming Planning Commission meetings and what we see right now as the tentative work program to handle what I think will be a fairly substantial load next year with the master plan review and the zoning ordinance rewrite. There are some placeholders in there for joint work sessions and that will have to be at the pleasure as well of the City Council to determine. Critical to this process and we've already begun this is a discussion with both the historic resources folks and the parks and rec folks to get out front of putting together both parks master plan which you've just asked to be supported in the CIP. If it's not, I'm going to need a lot of work from them and trying to beef up our Parks and Rec section in the comp plan. But I've already started with the historic resources folks on doing an element for our comprehensive plan that takes into account some really good research that's been done over the past few years on some of our historic resources and to help us get out in front of some of the issues that you all have faced in the past year and really take a hard policy look at what resources are critical and how we propose to support them. So those are going to be strong up front and I'm going to try and get those out way ahead of the game so that as we feed into this process we'll have plenty of time for public comment and public input. With that there are a few zoning text amendments that'll be filtered here and there. I'm aware of one that'll probably be coming as a result of tomorrow night's work session. So I put it in for the January time frame. A few meetings I left holes because as things happen, we'll have some sliding here and there. And I wanted to make sure there was sufficient flexibility in the schedule. But this will give us a general idea of what our work program will be. Well, I want to thank you. This is very responsive to our request as a commission to try to begin to outline our program for next year. And I recognize this is a fluid document. as a commission to try to begin to outline our program for next year. And I recognize this is a fluid document and I'd like to invite my fellow commissioners to, if there are any suggestions or prioritization to share that. I just have a few quick questions though before we do that. The zoning text amendment to allow LED message board signs for schools. Are we speaking to something similar, for example, to the large sign that George Mason University now has on Bratik Road, or is this a different issue? It's actually what's come about is Fairfax High School, instead of having the sign where they change the copy all the time, would really like to be able to do it remotely and a little more technologically advanced. Some of the area high schools have similar signs, I think Annandale High School as one. And you know, in the package that's before the council tomorrow night, I saw several other schools had them. They've asked for that. I think the text amendment, if the council sends it forward to you, will be to study the issue and figure out, you know, what the right way to go is in terms of size and whether or not those sounds. So it is a similar type of sign then to what Mason University is. Yeah, it's like it's got LED lights. So it can change your animation and all that. Okay. Thank you. And then relative to outreach and ethics issues, should we be placing a placeholder for those issues on this calendar somewhere? Yeah, that'll be fine. We did send off to the City Council both a request for feedback on the original ethics issue and a statement of what the Planning Commission has done on the outreach. Hopefully we'll hear back from the council on that. And I... Well, since we have a blank spot by January the 28th, I'd like to suggest we fill in that blank spot with the follow-up discussion. And hopefully we can solicit some feedback by council by that point. Any other discussion or thoughts? No. You've wowed us. Thank you, Ms. Gattlesa. Okay, so is this comfortable? Is there consensus around this? Is our operational plan for next year? Very good. We can do that by consensus. Step report, the next item. No report to make. Thank you very much. I would like to say as a personal point though, I've been around the city for a long time with a little bit of absence and I personally am going to very much miss working with Ms. Pumphrey, who has been one of the most dedicated planning commissioners in public servants here in town and I will very much miss her input. Yes, yes and I want to second that we are going to invite Kathy back to honor you at our first meeting of the year appropriately. I also want to congratulate Mr. Cunningham who is reappointed to the commission for another 10 year of four years. Correct. So congratulations the city council is reappointed here. Thank you very much for your service. Why don't we move on to commission comments and the other commission comments? Mr. Foster. The only comment I have is with last week's absence I was at the Commissioner School in Charlottesville and I am now certified or certifiable as a planning commissioner. Congratulations. Thank you. It's was quite an interesting process. And for those of you that have not been, it's, I think it's worth it. I would encourage you to go. Great. Great. And with that, Ms. Mouper. Yes, I do have a few words to say You know, I have been volunteering on various sports and commissions in the city since 1985 and I actually have a viewing public I get told Sometimes it worked that people do watch planning commission meetings, both live and in reruns. So I guess I won't have a pleasure of having them tell me that they've seen me on television or clarifying, was that really you I saw the other night? I just wanted to say a couple things. First of all, I really wanted to acknowledge the hard work of the staff in the city and how much over years that I have learned from them. It truly was a really incredible learning process. Watching how things were done in my job, I'm on the other side of this, I'm the staff support for a board and it's really been very helpful to me to be sitting on the other side and seeing how things are operated. I think it's made me better at my job, but also I really appreciate the work that the staff do here in my. I'm glad so that you're back and you know, City's really lucky to have you. And I wish everybody really good luck and I hope that what happens is that the City really comes around to recognize the important role of the planning commission. I've been through cycles of the planning commission being a really integral part of all of the planning processes with various iterations of city council and all kinds of joint meetings. And it's probably the most exciting time period that you're coming up to right now, which is the comp plan, which I really wipe actually. And working on that, it's something that I've done several times. I've probably been on the planning commission, I think it's about 10 years. And I really want the public to know that they need to get involved in the process. And I don't know what needs to be done to improve that kind of communication. I'm hoping that your public outreach process, which I feel like I was really instrumental in trying to help people get involved in, is one step. But I have a little bit of a challenge to you guys to continue your outreach to people and know that it's really important and to the public to understand that they have to really be involved in volunteering that it's a really important piece of what makes the city run. So with that note I wish everybody good luck and happy holiday. You too. Thank you for those all of the remarks and with that we are adjourned thank you I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the next room. I'm going to go to the Thank you.