Good evening and welcome to the City of Fairfax Planning Commission meeting of Monday, January 12, 2009. Happy and a healthy new year and please rise as we say the pledge of allegiance. Join us. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice are all. And ladies and gentlemen, the first agenda item is a discussion of the agenda this evening. Is there any discussion? Mr. Chairman, I move the agenda be adopted as presented. Thank you, Mr. Cullian. Thank you, Mr. Foster. So moved. All those in favor say aye. Aye. It's unanimous. Are there any presentations by the public this evening? Seeing none, we'll move on to agenda number three, which we're quickly moving, which is an adjournment of our regular meeting to a work session. Is there a consent for that? Yes, we'll move right into the work session then. If I could turn to staff, if we could have a quick update on any developments with regard to, in particular, the City Council and the budget with regard to issues from staff reporting out on the budget, and then Mr. Foster will turn to you for your report as well. Nothing from staff on the budget I believe Mr. Foster has all of up to date information for you. Now this work. Forget the other phone. It's mine up. I'll find out. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I are as a change in real estate values, the impact on tax revenues because of the economy and other issues. And so we held over discussion on the capital improvements budget so that we could have a more informed and more robust discussion as a commission about the CIP plan. Mr. Foster, you are going to report out on some information from the budget committee which is working with the City Council. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You have a handout and I will refer to those numbers and we will move back and forth between the discussion of the budget and And yes, let's start first with the top item. Excuse me, the budget committee was appointed in, at the end of the last fiscal year and began their meetings in July. And at that time we had approximately a $3 million, $100,000 deficit for the current fiscal year. The first round of cuts that were approved by Council are represented here on this top sheet, totaling $2 million for. You can see what the items are. With respect to the CIP, you'll notice that a number of the items toward the bottom, 400,000 of the, I guess it's 800,000 were items that were either cut or deferred. So that has an impact on this year's planning. I'm sorry, planning for 2009, 2010. The second handout or two sheets in there are the CIP projects that have been proposed by staff. I took them and resorted them based on the recommendations that Mr. Cunningham made. So those projects that can be implemented by staff and would use existing employees to complete or list at first and then projects that enhance the tax base are listed second regrettably that's a none and then Items that affect essential functions and public safety are listed third that grouping fourth grouping at the bottom of the page are those items that are funded by grants match funding whatever and grouping at the bottom of the page of those items that are funded by grants, match, funding, whatever. And then the second page are those items that are funded out of the enterprise fund. So, going back to the first page and then looking at these two items, I suspect that our thought process is going to have to take into account the fact that some items were deferred, but at the same time when we look at the budget, we're not going to be able to do the whole to me and five to my mind. The insert sheet that I handed out, excuse me, gives you a picture of the budget and I will try to answer questions where I can and if I can't I won't. But you'll see the first column there is Fiscal Year 09, which we're in now. We're still dealing with the $700,000 deficit we've got to work off here in the next few months. The second column is the projected amounts for Fiscal Year 2010, and you can see that the projected deficit is 14 million eight and that was last updated this past Tuesday, which would have been the seventh That correct or six whatever and then you have 2011 2012 2013 with projected deficits of 14 million one 14 million, 114 million, 816 million, four. I point this out primarily because as we look at the CIP, this is not a situation to my mind where we can recommend a deferral or put things off. We've already put off 400,000. The requirements, the needs of the Capitol Improvement Project are going to continue. They're not going to go away and because of the deficits out in the future, we I don't think it's prudent to keep pushing off the CIP into the future. And then the last page is a more readable close-up of what I just gave you on the handout. I tried to make these numbers on the handout as tiny as I could to maximize your efforts at visual acuity, but there were a little larger on this last page and hopefully they show the same numbers than they do. So that's kind of where we are in terms as a big picture in terms of the budget and in terms of a ordering of the CIP projects based on the priorities that were suggested by this body. And it may be that what we should do is recommend an amount, a million, five to million, whatever, rather than specific projects. And I will try to answer any questions that you have. Thank you, Mr. Post. There are any questions? Miss Cunningham? One immediate question from the budget, a denim sheet that was just handed to us, if you sort of looking down it, under the category for tax revenues, other financing sources, slash miscellaneous, we show an amount in 2009 of just over 5 million. In 2010, that amount is reduced to 993,000 in 2011. It's back up to just over 5 million and then continues in the out years. There appears to be a 4 million drop for one year in that category. Do we have a sense of what that category is made up of or why it's only a one-year implication? I'm not exactly sure, so I'm reluctant to answer, but I will suggest that the answer may lie in the can't, because this is general fund. I was going to say the enterprise fund financing program that was developed last year with the Water and Sower revenue financing, but that would not be part of the general fund operating budget. So I'm sorry and I would rather not speculate. Okay, that's fine. I just had a question with a formula and implication for one year. If that were a continuing thing, it might lead to one set of implications. As it is, I will leave it as an old question then. I will find an answer for you. Okay. And notify everyone by email. Thank you. On the bottom of that same sheet, it says tax, real estate tax rate at 1 cent per 100, $562,090. Is that what each penny of tax equates to an adjustment. The 562 is 1 cent per 100, 1 penny. On the tax rate and you will see that we're forecasting a decline, staff is forecasting a decline for 2010. As a broad citywide number staff is forecasting a decline of 8.5% in the assessed valuations. And then they're still showing a slight decline that you're after 2011 to 540. The number below that I should point out is a representation in I see an incorrect number right now. The number of pennies it would require the tax rate to rise to balance the budget. If you loaded it all into the real estate tax increase. Now that we've got it down to 700,000 it's about 1.2 cents. But the 27 cents, 26 cents, 26, 29, all of those numbers are reasonably valid going forward and forward, which is not really feasible. Okay, I understand. Would that, as an essence, be 26 cents per year or is that 26 cents that is then carried forward, year over year? They're going forward. that has been carried forward year over year. That would be a brand new 26 cents because there's no assumption in the revenues. All of the revenues are assumed at 79 cents per hundred. So the only variation you get in there is the adjustment based on aggregate assessment values. Okay. So there's no tax increase in any of these assumptions. When I asked that question, I guess if 26 cents came through in 2010, that is what it would take to an essence solve the problem or balance the budget for 2010. Correct? Correct. If I have eaten that 26 cents in 2010, do I need another 26 cents on top of that in 2011 to balance the budget? I would, or does it not? I would say that I was eating it one time. Very forward. Say that I can carry it forward with minor adjustments from there. So that's, that's, though, it's not saying your tax rate's gonna go up a dollar right dollar for it's saying that it could go up 27 cents but do you want to do all that in one year that okay and I think that was my question for clarification or do you want to change the scope and size of government to some degree? Do you want to really be frugal with every department in the city, or do you want a combination? And I know one of the documents that we did not hand out because it's just operational in nature, but staff is looking at 5% and 10% cuts from the fiscal year 09 budget to see what that impact would be, and that'll be dramatic too. So there is a real difficult series of questions that have got to be asked in this process about how big, how encompassing, how many services should the city of Fairfax offer? And can we afford to do that? And it's kind of getting to the point where we're not sure we can afford to do it, but we don't know where to start with the pruning series. It's a very difficult question. Okay. One additional question I would presume there's an interim number in here since property tax revenues are going to be reduced because assessments are coming down based on a decline in values in this area. Then presumably I would expect my property tax bill to come down with a lower assessment. But if I keep my job so to speak, I will still bring in the same number of dollars. And in order to keep City revenues level, is there an amount that's been looked at that the tax rate could be raised so that I'd stay or pay essentially the same amount in property tax, even though I may have a lower assessment and that theoretically would not as negatively impact me in terms of trying to keep the assessments from driving quite so much to the city's budget problem from a cash flow basis. If I understand your question, speaking broadly, the number is about seven cents on the tax rate to break even against the decline in of eight and a half percent in assessed values. Might be six or so, right in it. Now, having said that, there are gonna be some properties that may decline more or less than 8.5%. So some may have a tax decrease if seven is the number where taxes are increased. Some might have a tax cut. And some on the other hand might have a tax increase provided in the improvement to my property to my property. So the way I have associated with it. It's a good and neighborhoods will tend to aggregate because they're assessed similarly. But right now it's about $0.7 to break even on the real estate tax. Okay, so amounts beyond $0.7 would help with the budget issue that then have to be considered along that line. The area between seven and 26 helps with the declining. It's quite arranged. Yeah, it's quite arranged to help with the budget problem, but it is, it puts it in a perspective or a ballpark. Right, yes. And I think counsel at this juncture, well, I can't speak for them, but there is an effort on the part of the budget committee to try to have the discipline of saying, okay, what about a lower number? Let's choose the mogul of Tencent's for planning purposes to say, okay, here's the effect of Tencent's. And staff is looking at different amounts and different effects to see what the relationships are. At what point do you really penalize something versus being frugal? Thank you. Ms. Robinson, any questions? On the last handout, what you said is the blowup between 2009 and 2010. Yes. Under net gain and loss, it says additional estimated reduction in school tuition. So for this year, it's 250,000 and then it goes to a million. Do we anticipate the number of students dropping, what is driving that $1 million because I'm assuming that means the amount of tuition we pay to the county. It is driven by the county budget. Okay. We pay a percentage of the county school budget. The expectation is that the county will have reductions in their school expenditures. Okay. And that therefore actually leads to a reduced cost of the city for the school tuition contract. Okay. Okay. And then actually my question was about equalization which you addressed. That's right. It's my understanding that the Paraphrx County Public Schools have already announced both an increase in class size at all levels, as well as a freeze on salaries, cola, and other related areas. And many school administrators have been informed that they will be losing staff in the coming year. Mr. Butterchell, any questions? The only question I have was, is the number under 2020, or the one before coming? 416. Is that the incorrect number you have? That's the incorrect number, yes. Mr. Landis? Nothing right now, thank you. So Mr. Foster, if you would, if you could follow up and Mr. Cunningham, I'm going to invite you as well. You referenced Mr. Cunningham's suggestion that we try to prioritize based on category as well as source of revenues, some of the areas under the capital improvement program and the budget. If you could just spend a few moments taking us through your thinking of that, Mr. Cunningham will turn to you right after that. Well, there were three grouping suggested. The first would be those projects that could be done in-house, so to speak, by existing staff. The second would be projects that would expand the tax base. And I can't come up with a rugged exam right off if you want to jump in with the county hand please do and then the third would be the remaining projects that affect public safety the essential functions of the city that sort of thing. There are some of them that are almost contractual of other Virginia community college and other Virginia regional park authority and then you get into fire are almost contractual of other Virginia community college and other Virginia regional park authority. And then you get into fire and police. One thing that I did do here, if you'll go down the under vehicle and equipment replacement, police vehicle replacement, I split it with the idea that it would give us some flexibility instead of the whole enchilada we could split it in half and the numbers are just a little screwy primarily on the police vehicle replacement because the chief indicated at each one is 50,000. So I couldn't get into a half a car. I couldn't split it 50, 50. So I went three and two to create those numbers. And then I don't know what the breakdown is on the vehicle and equipment replacements. So I just did 50-50. To give counsel some options as they decide how much the budget can afford and they're wish to allocate. The bottom two items became the bottom two items because they're primarily the issue is the ability of police motorcycles to go across that bridge while they are safe for pedestrian traffic. It was a weight limit thing. So it didn't seem to have quite the priority of some of the other issues. That's very helpful. Thank you. And Mr. Cunningham, since you were the inspiration for some of the thinking here, what, what you show your thoughts with us? I appreciate the way it's been aligned. And again, the thinking in this line is that we're looking at a difficult budget situation as Mr. Foster has lined out. We're going to have to make cuts and those cuts are going to be carefully thought out and made, and I know that our recommendations will hopefully help City Council in making them. The initial thoughts on those that were projects that can be implemented by staff. Those as I indicated, I think we get more bang for the buck on in that those are things that have to be done to keep the city's infrastructure in good repair and keep us moving forward with the ability to maintain things. If they can be done by city staff instead of being contracted out, giving them priority is intended to allow us to do some things from the existing resources we have, which bolsters the importance of those resources. I'm sure that, you know, while those aren't the only things that staff would be doing, that by staff doing them since we already have a sunk salary cost, if you will, and sanctioned benefit cost, and using them to make improvements to the city, we are buying a workforce that's able to keep the city's services at the highest level possible as we go forward. And if it can reduce some of the cuts that we would otherwise make in staff, it will reduce some of the turbulence that we're going to endure going forward. And the more we can reduce staff turbulence, I think, the better for the city and the long run in maintaining the quality services we've all come to expect. The second project or process, and I'm a little sugary to see none there, is that when we see none, it says that none of the things that we're doing to improve our infrastructure is making the city of Fairfax a better place in which to do business. And one of the thoughts as you go into difficult budget times is that we've got to make the end game work out. Well, if the pie is getting smaller, then you're having to reduce the pie and we're all fighting over smaller pieces. But the flip side of that to get out of a recession or get out of a difficult business time is to make the pie bigger so that we can do that. And one of the areas that we have talked about for a number of years needs to be improved is the business community. So those projects that would make it easier or better for the city to support the business structure and climate within the city perhaps should be given priority in a time like the present because they help make the pie bigger and will ease some of the other difficult decisions we have to make. When I move down to the third area in public safety, public safety of course has to be the number one priority. However, there is immediate safety. I, if you don't repair it, plan on someone being injured or some catastrophic event happening in the imminent future that you're trying to avoid. And the other is trying to generally improve the safety climate as we can afford to to make it a better place to live. And those items, many are essential to the staff functions that are going to come and present them to council. It is more challenging for us to make a final safety decision whether they should be funded before other parts in that the Planning Commission doesn't deal with the entire picture or some of those other conditions that have to be weighed, but they're definitely there for us to look at in terms of prioritizing them, make the judgment. And I think the two bridges that Mr. Foster discussed in the parks that are used for safety for crossing of police motorcycles fall into that category very well. So I appreciate the work that's been done. I think those meet the intent of what I was suggesting for discussion points, and they give us a way to look at making a recommendation to City Council that I hope will add value to their decision-making process. Mr. Cummings, that was very well stated. In particular, I'd like to spend a moment of time on your thought about projects that benefit the business community, benefit the entire community as a whole. I'd like to invite other commissioner comment on that particular area because clearly we've spoken in the past about the importance of our business community, both as private citizens in our community, but also as having a very strong footprint on our ability to have a low tax rate. And we need to continue to use that as a vehicle. Let me turn to some of our representatives. Actually, the two of you are our representatives. I'll turn to Ms. Robinson and I'll jump to the other side then. Thank you, Chancellor. I think I may know where you're going. Go ahead. I am dismayed at the loss of yet another business, which I had no idea, Ross, which is a chain store in Fair City Mall. I went in there to do my fun shopping and just look for some things and there was nothing left because they're closing. And I get that it could be a nationwide problem because they are a chain and perhaps they didn't do well, but I think it's indicative of the number of shopping centers here in the city that are, if not at least 50% empty, they have a lot of vacancies. There's office condos that are for sale, for lease, for rent, while we're still building new ones that I get were put in place before this recession happened. you know, get where put in place before this recession happened. But I think it's absolutely vital that whatever, whatever state we have, whatever priority we can give to growing the business community for two reasons, A, because obviously it increases our tax base. But the more vacant strip malls, you have the more vacant, empty shopping centers, there's a whole other side to what comes along with that. You start to get the graffiti, the loitering, the problems that come along with empty blighted buildings. And what was a nice vibrant community now becomes an eye sore, now becomes reminiscent of that part of route one by Fort Belvoir when you're driving and it's just the most depressing drive, we can't have our city go that way because the gains that we've made as far as attracting people here, these are going to become the losses that send people fleeing to further out suburbs or to even maybe closer into the city. So it's absolutely essential that we dedicate resources to focus on the business community, whether that's working more closely with the economic development authority to come up with either recommendations for allocating money to help them more appropriately market to businesses here or making a separate recommendation, having a focus group, having some type of meeting with City Council, where we all brainstorm on incentives, perhaps changes to our zoning regulations, whatever we have to do to make it attractive for businesses to come here. Because while people do cut back during the times of recessions, people also look at it as a chance to grow, and they also look at it as a chance to grow and they also look at it as a chance to perhaps get deals that wouldn't be there when times aren't so desperate. And if we can seize that and if we can get these people in now and find some kind of way to get them in and make them attractive to them while the going is good, so to speak, I think we go a long way in maybe changing some of these numbers further out as we continue to increase that tax base because we have the space as it is now. It's just empty. So that would be my take on the business community. And I just want to go back to the bridges real quick and second what Mr. Cunningham said in that the $60,000 per bridge that's being asked for is a very small price to pay versus the negligence so to speak that we would be slapped with if someone were to be injured on one of these bridges. We've all been put on notice. It's in our minutes, it's been brought to our attention that Parks and Wrecks does not consider these bridges to be safe. So for us not to make a strong recommendation that these get funded, I think the price we pay down the road for someone being hurt on one of these bridges is far greater than $120,000 total. So I will leave it at that at this point. Thank you. Thank you. Now there may be a silver lining depending on the retail environment, but there was another national retailer interested in the raw space. Whether that deal goes through in this current retail environment is another issue. But I totally concur with your thinking. Let's, again, try to stay focused on this issue of green, how we can support our business community. Mr. Potatini, I'll turn to you. Thank you. One of the things I've always felt that we could do is proceed with the master plan. I know we have a group of people who own property and have businesses along the boulevard, Fairfax boulevard, who are still meeting or trying to decide exactly what to do and how to generate business. And I think we up to us to give them more support and help them carry on their mission to get done whatever they have to do on their agenda. I don't know what Mr. Farage has on his agenda right now. He just sent me an email about a meeting coming up. But I think it's important to get, it's actually implementing the master plan to whatever extent we can to get more business and it can buy that way we get more commercial taxes into the system, which do pay for a lot of our services every time. So I think working on the Fairfax Polaroid and generating business in that area is very important. And no, I've been receiving, I don't know about all of you, where we have that redevelopment, even though it's been on a small scale in Fairfax Boulevard, it's been extremely positively received, both from a beautification perspective, as well as folks simply pulling in and buying goods in the city of Fairfax. And that's something we need to continue to strive for. Mr. Landon, The BID board member is about a meeting on the 15th. They have elected an chairman, and I think in council may take that up tomorrow night. I'm not sure. I will note, as Ms. Robinson indicated, Ross is closing, but there's a store, Christmas store downtown, is closing, and I will note that Fairfax Circle's center is well underway and it's remodeling after the fire, and the Chick-fil-A has finally gotten things kicked off. It's been a year and a half to years since we took up that issue. But I think the points are well taken when we discussed the C.I. The comprehensive plan. There seemed to be a pretty strong feeling that that was one of the areas that we needed to address in the revised version of the comprehensive plan. I just like to note for the minutes that Commissioner Conn has arrived. Good evening. Happy New Year, sir. We are actually reviewing a document prepared by Commissioner Foster looking at the CIP and we're just in an active discussion and have to prioritize areas. Feel free to jump in whenever you're ready. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but I'm curious. Sure, not a problem at all. I want to continue to discuss some of the individual staff presentations because I think this is very helpful in making ultimately or beginning to think about a recommendation to the City of Council. I think that Robinson's point about safety hazards, meaning the bridges are real issue we need to be sensitive to. As well, I think about the police chief and his statement about ensuring that we move ahead with our radio equipment to ensure from a public safety perspective we are consistent with the surrounding jurisdictions and he spoke quite eloquently to that fact. I will be a broken record and once again raised my concern about in fact the city pavement situation. It appears to me that as quickly as our talented city staff and utility crews are making repairs, filling in potholes, new potholes are emerging throughout the city. It's not limited to the city it's happening in the county as well. I have no explanation. I'm not an expert in this area. But like all of you, I drive the roads and I really am concerned that the amount of money that's been allocated to this area will be inadequate to meet the need. I also think our city council has an impossible, impossible job this year overall. And we only are dealing with the capital improvement program. But in looking at an age where you're trying to keep the tax impact very minimal as far as an increase on our city residents, but there is such a substantial loss in revenue. This is a very tasking assignment. And I am sure any number of city programs valuable. Frankly, national models are at risk right now. The programs that benefit first time home buyers, home folks looking to make home improvement, seniors, mature adults in our community, everything student population are at risk right now. And I'm delighted that, Mr. Foster, you've been working on this budget committee as a resource to the City Council. I think your suggestion that we try to suggest a dollar figure or a range is a valuable one, a good one. I think we may want to speak to areas where we think there may need to be extra attention, you know, as we are doing this evening, and then after we close the public hearing, make a motion that we feel comfortable with in the form of a consent motion. But again, I want to throw that out to you as an approach. Really, it's something that I leave to my successor, and I'll simply be a member of the Commission in the future. But how does that resonate with you? I think that's a well thought out approach. The difficulty is always trying to decide what that priority should be and what that dollar amount should be. I think if my memory serves me, we have a public hearing on the 24th, 26th. I think that's right. To finish the comprehensive plan, so I think our consent motion should come with that maybe, rather than tonight. I agree with that. Okay. I wasn't suggesting otherwise. Yeah. And it might be useful to have ideas on a reordering of the priorities on that list so that we can move them around. Mr. Cunningham. I would concur with Mr. Foster that when we conclude tonight that we're moving toward, I think we left it as a fixed date certain of the 26th for that meeting for the resolution. And yes, however we would like to structure it and we come out of the consensus tonight. I think we can move that toward being the core of the recommendation on the 26th when we conclude the public hearing and then forward a recommendation. So I'm in concurrence with those thoughts. Dr. Cutt? I could. Mr. Robinson? Chairman? I can cook with that. Thank you. Good. Are there any areas that anyone would like to raise at this moment of time where something resonated from the staff presentations with you at area that we that us as a commission should be thinking about between now and then? Mr. Robinson. that we, that us as a commission, should be thinking about between now and then. Was Robinson? When, when you are the, I forget the gentleman's name right now, it's escaping me. But he talked about the vehicle replacement, how the vehicles are literally rustic away and that they've been repaired more times than they really should and that there are some new vehicle purchases, especially purchases that are needed, especially if we're going to suggest that so much of these improvements be made in house. I do believe at one point he even said it's a question of his staff safety at this point driving around on some of those vehicles. I think if we're going to prioritize that something that should be higher on the list, especially if we're going to suggest that they do this work in house versus contracting it out and using someone else's vehicles. Down the road, it seems like it could be an investment that would pay off. Mr. Oedis, the one thing that resonated with me was the bringing in the fleet consultant I don't only have a fresh eyes to look at how the vehicles are used and how they maintain, but I would think that that would allow greater efficiencies in the future and probably cost savings, possibly above what you would even pay the consultant. Very good. Mr. Cunning on the juke, why don't we say something? No, I would just concur that Mr. Summers points since I think Mr. Summers is who we were looting to in terms of the vehicles, the public works operates and the leaf truck is the one that comes to mind for thinking early as being old along with some of the garbage trucks are quite pertinent and are also echoed then by Chief Ravaport and by Chief Owens for the Fire Department vehicles as well as the police department vehicles. All of our vehicles need to be maintained well and I think the staffs have done an excellent job of doing that so that what we can do to assist them is appropriate. Thank you. Any other comments or thoughts? Any additional thoughts for this agenda? Great. Great. Thank you. Any other comments or thoughts? Any additional thoughts for this agenda item? Otherwise we can entertain a motion to move back into our normal meeting. Is there a second? All those in favor? Moving back into our regular session. Please say aye. Aye. Okay. It's unanimous. Okay. Let's take a look at the next agenda item. Item number four, the capital improvement program for fiscal year 2010 through 2014. Is there any need Mr. Foster to memorialize our work session conversation anyway in reference to this item? I don't, in my opinion, I don't think so. I think I will take the suggestions that have been made, rearranged the schedule, and then we can memorialize it after we hear from the public on the 26th. All right. Thank you for that. All right. So our next agenda item is item number six. Initiation of proposed and mevanced article one, section 110-9. Violations penalties of the city code to revise the procedures for the initiation of proposed and mevanced Article 1, Section 110-9 violations. Penalties of the city code to revise the procedures for the enforcement of civil and criminal violations of the Article 1, Section 110, the applicable city wide. Is there a staff report for this item? We're simply a memorandum. I could briefly address what is going on with the memorandum. Thank you. During the second half of the last year, the zoning administrator worked with the city attorney to improve the zoning enforcement process. The three basic areas that they looked at are the criminal penalties, the civil penalties, and then the new legislation out, the zoning administrator and the city attorney, came up with a proposed ordinance that in effect moves those things, those types of violations in the zoning ordinance that are more effectively regulated or enforced through criminal penalties into the criminal penalties section and those that are more effectively enforced as civil penalties into the civil penalties section, and then moved on to address the additional work, that the state legislature authorized. And so they are asking that the Planning Commission consider initiating zoning ordinance tax amendment and that's the basis of the memorandum that was put to you. And is there any action to expect to love the Commission, although there's no discussion this evening? Well, that would just be to initiate the proposed amendments, initiate the zoning tax amendment process for this tax amendment. Okay. Discussion? Mr. Foster? This is designed to address how violations are dealt with, not with the violation itself. It doesn't change what the violation is. Right. It changes whether it's a civil or criminal. It's a criminal or criminal penalty. Some issues, for instance, at times in certain situations, you can keep issuing new tickets, but at some point you come up to a maximum total violation amount that that business needs to pay. And at that point, there's nothing else you can do. And so it makes more sense in certain cases to make a criminal penalty. In some cases, the proposal of the floodplain ordinance that could in theory increase flooding downstream and threaten homes that are near a stream that wouldn't otherwise be threatened by increased flooding that could be threatened, hurt as a result of activities that take place upstream on private property. Thank you. As much as. Yes, Mr. Goldman, I have a question about the historic downtown. Is that the current historic that they're talking about or doesn't include the transitional? I think this is the historic district. The last, the most recent historic district that was created was Blenheim. And when that went in, it was proposed as criminal penalties rather than civil. And in looking at over the Zomium Administrator and the city attorney came to the conclusion that that made more sense and so they want to just change the other historic districts to be the same as the newest one. Not that to my knowledge doesn't apply, doesn't necessarily apply to the transition, but it may, I haven't read through it carefully enough. Thank you. Mr. Scalia, in the past, I know that this has been a challenge for us to do with, and that most of us on this dias are not attorneys. And when we deal with the staff working with the cities of attorney dealing with state law that's primarily written by attorneys in past, some of it ends up being challenged to wade through in a practical standpoint. So Mr. Belevens, if I could ask, are there some practical examples you could give as to what we're talking here so that we have a better understanding of how this would be applied? I know one instance two years ago when we dealt with something along this line that we're talking about fines, but in the $500, $600 range that could cumulatively end up at about $4,800 to not exceed as that maximum of $5,000 in that instance. We didn't come up with a good understanding of how it would be implied. And as such, I'm not sure where we came on the outcome of our recommendation. But for this case, since we're talking about mixing civil and criminal penalties, how practically would be employed? Give us an example of something within the city, whether it's hypothetical or real, in terms of how this would change our approach. Well, I mentioned floodplains, and that's probably one of the easier ones to follow. The proposal is for the entire section of the ordinance, the only ordinance that deals with floodplains to be enforced through the criminal penalties section. So if someone, for instance, owned a piece of property that included a stream running through it and they decided they were going to just fill in the flood plain and severely constrict the stream of the flow of water through the stream across their property. Then that could backwater up and effectively create a dam and create, during heavy flooding, a pond or lake of water upstream of that one property by changing that from a civil penalty to a criminal penalty would mean that instead of the zoning administrator being limited to writing a ticket for a few hundred dollars and hoping that it gets fixed and after a while goes by ten days, goes by if it hasn't been fixed writing another ticket and continuing up to the point in time where you reach the maximum amount that can be imposed in fines, it would allow the zoning administrator and the city attorney to move quickly to make it a criminal penalty and resolve the issue much quicker. and resolve the issue much quicker. Okay, I guess my thought in this process is in terms of transgressing against my neighbor, if you will, that there are certain things that I could do that are inadvertent that probably should be discussed and be forgiven, I civil penalty. My liability with insurance would cover it to help me from that standpoint, so I wouldn't be as concerned about it, but by making it a criminal penalty which could theoretically make me either find more harshly or a guest of the community for some time against my will, that I would take it more seriously hoping to avoid that situation so that the intent would be to improve enforcement because the nature of the penalties would change sufficiently to get my attention or is it that we have enough fuzziness between the zoning administrator and those people that are trying to apply the law that going one way or the other still has judgment involved or a question mark in how to apply it, which makes it a more challenging situation? I think I'm afraid I can't give you specific examples of those that the zoning administrator is more likely to stay away from enforcement or to not go that far, to instead try to talk it out without providing either a ticket or a criminal civil penalty or to go to criminal penalty route. I'm sorry I can't come up with something right away, but I do recall many in the past when, back during the days when I was a zoning administrator. Mr. Mr. Goddard. Mr. Chairman. I have just two questions. And maybe I want to clarify. First, is this initiative designed to bring the city rules to conformity in the state that he had caught its own house bill that has, is it the desire of the city to enforce this more vigorously? Jamie, what is that? I think it's somewhere between the state allows more, more vigorous, not so much the enforcement aspect of it, but the state allows the city to control overcrowding issue. And under this proposed ordinance, the city would be choosing to take advantage of the recent legislation as opposed to falling into conformance with what the state has told them they must do. But you know, when I think through this, you know, in the last five years, I think, I think in the next many years or seven years. Every one of them I don't want that gender. Sometime, a builder would come and say, I'm going to put a proper, you can be a neighbor, not a man, you can be a neighbor on the Trump lineage or a neighbor of that despite the, you know, perspective that means a violation and the planning commission in the city allows them that they but my question to you is, if this passes those may want to finish? Things of the past are not. No. When a developer asks, for instance, for a special exception or a special use permit, let's say, again, stay with the floodplain issue. The floodplain ordinance says you cannot fill more than, let's take a simple situation, you can't fill more than one foot without going through a special exception situation or special use permit. And the purpose of that process is to see if by filling that amount, that specific amount that the developer wants to fill, will there in fact be upstream or downstream problems created? So the staff reviews the proposal and if they come to the conclusion that it's not going to create problems, then City Council can choose to grant the approval as opposed to just waving it and not looking at it to see what the effects are. And once those are in place, change to the ordinance would not nullify them. And since they've already been looked at to make sure that they're not going to have ill effects upstream or downstream on other property owners, other properties, then it's not a problem to do that. Chairman, please. With everyone's permission, I'd just like to ask a quick follow-up question with regard to the civil versus criminal enforcement of occupancy limits within the city. And that this cannot be answered, I'd be more than comfortable to ask that to be answered at our next meeting as a follow-up. My experience with occupancy standards is that they are an extremely slippery slope to enforce. And certainly the enforcement activity in the city of Mnassas has been under a lot of scrutiny because of alleged discrimination in how there was selective enforcement or code enforcement in that jurisdiction. That matter has been settled, but it's substantial cause to the community and to the jurisdiction. I want to, you know, in good faith, I'd like to be sure that I understand our city's approach to both civil and criminal matters in this area because we have an extremely diverse population. And again, ascertaining occupancy is an extremely difficult task. And I understand this is the idea of going to a judge possibly and getting an order to learn more about who's living in a unit. But again, it's not completely clear to me how we operate as a city with regard to this issue. And I would feel more comfortable knowing the answer to that before I vote on this issue. Right. I notice and I apologize that I have not been involved in this process today. I notice that in your on page three of the memorandum, you'll see House Bill 1107 increases increases fines for and the city of turn is as for criminal violations. However, if you look at the bill, the proposed, I'm sorry, the proposed text amendment, on the last page, or I guess it's next to the last page, D1, enforcement of residential occupancy limits, it talks about being subject to civil penalty. So on the face of that, both of those are true then the state allows a criminal penalty but the city proposes a civil penalty. That's very helpful. And I have no doubt that our city has a jurisdiction and full compliance, a full federal and state laws. But again, as it just as a point of information to myself and possibly to other members of the commission, if that issue could be addressed in light of what happened in Prince William, that would be very helpful. Well, this would come back to you for public hearing and recommendation to City Council if you initiated. Yes. I would also add just a point of historical perspective, and that is initially, you go back far enough, all zoning ordinance provisions were enforced only as criminal provisions, because that's all they had available. And I believe it was during the 1970s or possibly 80s, the city following the ability set up by the state changed a lot of items in the zoning ordinance so that they would be civil penalties instead of criminal penalties. On the whole I think as we have changed the ordinance and added new restrictions since then, there hasn't always been a good look at what makes more sense, the criminal versus civil. And if we don't go the extra step to specify that it's civil, then it's automatically criminal. So that's why some of them need to come out of criminal because they just don't make sense to tell someone who has too many dogs in their house. Let's say that that's a criminal offense. Yet on the other hand, things that are terribly important toward health and safety need to be criminal. Great. Thank you. That's very helpful. Any other additional questions? Yes, Ms. Cunningham. I would have just one comment. And I believe that we probably should proceed with this and bring it up so that we can get further discussion on it. One of the things that I would hope staff could provide when we do at that time would be some examples, as I've asked for, of how they would be applied, how it would fit to some of the situations discussed in here that would help the zoning administrator in making decisions or enforcement of the program if we could have that at our next meeting. That's a very good suggestion. Thank you. Would somebody like to make a motion? Yes, Mr. Chairman. I move that the planning commission initiate an amendment to City Code Chapter 110, Article 1, Section 110-9, to include provisions for enforcement of residential occupancy limits and to modify the stated procedures for issuance of criminal and civil penalties relating to violations of the provisions chapter one to end of the city code. Move by Mr. Paulsters there a second. Call the question, New York? Yes? Well those in favor please say aye. Aye. Aye. Passes unanimously. Okay. Moving on with the agenda. Consideration of the 2008 annual report. Any discussion? We have the report distributed. It's been a surprisingly fast year. And I'm just reviewing the document myself. I'm particularly I'm glad that it was noted that we made an outreach as a commission to historic Fairfax and tried to work through some of the issues with regard to identifying what properties within the city need to be inventory as historic properties. And certainly we moved in different directions. So please jump in and share your thoughts about all of this. I'm just as glad the 2008 I think is behind us whether it went quickly or slowly depending on your perspective. And I'm trusting the 2009 will be a more productive year from the feeling of what we've had going on. I think we accomplished a lot last year, but we've left a very full agenda as we're moving forward. And I think we've taken some steps to get there. I am looking forward as we get down to some of the actions on committee assignments and noticing my name appears far too often to having some change in that status as well and some assistance with some of those but I think it's been a very good year for the changes that we've gone on and look forward to moving into 2009. I would ask Mr. Blubbins if he has a sense of how staff will be moving forward with support since I would like to say thank you to the Scott Alessa for the excellent job She did guiding us through 2008 and wish her wish her well and her job was the director of planning and development in the city of false church Do we know where we're going? I would say the the scene direction that you were going but possibly a little slower from the staff perspective in that I expect a little less ability to provide products with smaller staff. But we certainly are continuing with the projects, the comprehensive plan, the Sony coordinates revisions, and within the Comprehensive Plan, the Fairx Boulevard Master Plan aspects, in particular, in staff as well as following forward as they can, but with effectively a 25% profit stamp level for vision, it won't be quite as fast as initially outlined. Then I would like to say I hope our agenda for 2009 is robust as our 2008 agenda has been. And I'll add that I want to comment that I'm very appreciative of our new members on the commission this year. We had three new appointments to the commission. As we began the year in 2008, it was very much a more influx situation. And I think there's a very positive stability and investment by all of the commissioners into the operations, the discussions, the documents, the business of the planning commission. I'm very appreciative of that. Other thoughts, Mr. Foster, I'll turn to you. Well, I think Mr. Blavin's raise is a good point. And certainly if you didn't get it when we went through the budget discussion, it'll come back. It will affect what we can do. In terms of staff support, it will slow down the review of the comprehensive plan. But we have identified and it's in here some of the areas that need to be addressed in the comprehensive plan. It will slow down the rewrite of the zoning ordinance because that requires some external consultant help, I believe. And there may or may not be money for that. At the same end, the economy is slower, which may reduce the amount of issues that come to us. But at the same time, to me, this is a time when we should be working on basics and getting ready if the economy is going to recover at some point sooner or later. And we need to be ready, rather than to to chase it and I think it provides an opportunity for us as a body to maybe a role of our sleeves and get it and help staff have a little bit more and we may have to do a little bit more than we have in the past to work with staff. They may not appreciate it. But we'll see how that goes. But I think we do have an opportunity. It's always darkest before the dawn. And I don't know if we've yet to the darkest yet, but it seems pretty bleak right now. I'm looking for a spring in the dawn. Dr. Kennedy thought something planned on the... productive to wait. And because of my own and due to the new job, I got more back to the position and I love it. But, but, anyway, he was enjoyable here. As Chairman said, we accomplished quite a lot of things. The new ground really was, you only have a couple of other political parties. When we became closer to both collaborative and then, it's a really positive thing because their mission is to keep reserved as trail, I do not participate about the need of the police department, the private department, the security department. And I think the planning commission has paid a vital offer to the government, the second of the city. And staff has done a tremendous job. And I didn't know, I just missed the meetings and hoping to change. He's gone. But and Mr. Chairman, the way you're going to do it, you have to share it. Thank you. Thank you. And what do we turn to our new members? Any thoughts about the annual report and our accomplishments. Well, I let go of the statements of Mr. Foster. I think it is going to be time to roll up our sleeves. It's not anything new serving on the EDA. We had to do it all because we had no staff support. So I think just because this to get it. And I think we can get it done. Very good. Mr. Landis. I want to say I appreciate everyone's patience while I've been getting my feet wet. Look forward to working with Mr. Blevin in the new year. And Commissioner Robinson. Thank you. Thank you, everyone, for helping me make my transition over the last three months. Enjoyable and agreeable. This has been a very, to say the least, eye-opening experience. And I look forward to moving into 2009 just to echo what everyone has said working closely with staff, but I think we also have a unique opportunity to work even closer with City Council to make some really serious decisions and to make some recommendations that, as Mr. Foster just said, if done right and if navigated the right way, we can seize this beast, as I'll call it, which is this recession, and really make some good decisions that will position us A to ride this out, but be even set us up to benefit in the further out years, the 2011 to 2012's, because I think there are some things that can be done particularly, again, in the business community that really can help us going forward, even if this doesn't turn around as quickly as we would like it to. Smart stewardship, good leadership, open conversations, and I think we can ride this through and come out in the end positive. Very good and in closing before we have a motion to accept the report there are two moments that I think were particularly enjoyable. One was having the room full of parents and school children from Providence and from also, sorry, Daniel's run. Thank you. And to have our mayor here with them celebrating Green Communities and National Planning Month, it was a perfect example of how outreach can be fun and really make a difference. And I think one of our challenges as a commission is to take that success story and translate it to the comprehensive planning process and the zoning process, the dialogue we're about to begin. I think one of the major challenges that we face that is not included in this, I guess, annual report is that we really need to ensure the viability of this administrative process as a planning commission. And that is we are here by design by the Commonwealth of Virginia to play very much an advisory role to the city council. And at times I have felt that quite candidly our role has been minimized and that many very important decisions are being made without the full consideration of the planning commission itself. And I know I'm speaking like a native New Yorker a little bit too bluntly again, but I figure I have a little bit of wiggle room tonight being the last sort of tenure of my chairmanship. It's my hope that the body and the coming years will work as was suggested much more closely with the City Council and all of the various boards and volunteer commissions that exist because then we have a very strong form of governance representing our community. It's not fair to the City Council to frankly put all the pressure, the weights of the world for every major decision upon them. We play in a very, very important advisory role and I think at times we should be doing more and I criticize myself for not asking that we do more. So on that note though, I'm very proud of the accomplishments of the commission this year and I'll entertain a motion. Is there a second? Okay. Okay. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. All right. Passes unanimously. So the next item is consideration of meeting minutes, December 1st and December 8th, 2008. Has everyone taken a look at the minutes? Are there any edits or changes? I move approval of both. Mr. Forster moves.. Cunningham seconds all those of favor please say aye aye Okay passes now. I just leave with one abstention Okay, and now we move to the election of chairman and vice chairman for this year 2009 I believe that we traditionally begin with chairman is that correct? Great and are there any nominations? Mr. Chairman, I would like to nominate Mr. William Foster for chairman of the planning commission. Okay. Do you accept the nomination? I would be honored to accept the nomination. And is there a second? Second by Mr. Khan. Are there any additional nominations? Okay. Is there a there any additional nominations? Okay. Is there a motion to close nominations? Very good. Very good. Okay. All those in favor. Mr. Foster becoming chairman of 2009. Please say aye. Aye. It is unanimous. Congratulations. Thank you. Okay. Now we move on to vice chairman. Are there any nominations? Mr. Sherman, I would like to nominate Mr. Baud of Chulling as Vice Chairman. Do you accept the nomination? Mr. Baud Chulling? Yes, I will. Yes, with a really nice smile too, I'll add very good. Is there a second to the nomination? I'll take a moment. All right, there are two seconds. Any other nominations? OK, motion to close please. So moved. All those in favor of closing nominations, please say aye. Aye. Okay, all those in favor of Mr. Vouchelli serving as the vice chairman in 2009, please say aye. Aye. Passes in, Adams. Congratulations, sir. Thank you. Would either of you like to make some remarks? You'll be my guest? Yeah. Well, let me start off by thanking you all. Maybe as time passes I won't be as grateful. We'll see how this turns out. But it's fun to work with all of you. And I look forward to doing more of it in the airhead. And thank you very much for your vote of confidence. I hope I can continue to keep that as we move through the year. And as I said, we do have an opportunity to change some things. And I like that sort of challenge. We do have an opportunity to change some things. And I like that sort of challenge. It's very positive to me to try to work on things that are new and improving for the city. I want to thank you for your leadership. We've had a good year, we've had a good two years on your leadership. Thank you very much and I'm glad you'll be around to continue the guidance. It's good to have to do former chairman here to set the pace, keep the new rookie in place. Thank you very much. Mr. Budgelli. All right. Thank you for your leadership over the last year, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the confidence, self. A little surprised, but I appreciate the confidence. And I too look forward to doing some more with the council, with the EDA and with the other boards and advisory boards to push forward What we've got going especially the master plan is mr. It's a pet pet project So I think it's important that we stay close move together move out so that we can Get through this area this time of Troubles with the economy and Get the city back on its feet again. Very good. Thank you. Thank you, Bob. Why we move on to the next agenda item, appointments to boards and commissions. First, the Board of Architectural Review, the BAR. Was there a would like to volunteer? Mr. Chairman, I would in making an initial comment one, divert slightly and say thank you for your leadership for the last two years. Mr. Graham, that's helped us keep a very steady course. And then I would be say that I've been honored to be the Board of Architecture Review Representative. And I would be honored to be willing to continue to serve in that role as the board would please. I'm sure that agreeable to you. It's wonderful. Well, then so let it be done. Very good. Thank you, sir. Very good. And then we have the Park and Recreation Advisory Board. And I'll tell you, I think we, over the past several years, have really established a very meaningful dialogue with that committee. They really have taken to heart many of our suggestions on how to make a very powerful presentation for the capital improvement program. I think we have all benefited from being engaged. I'd actually like to turn to Ms. Robinson if I may. Is there any interest in serving with that, esteemed money? Mr. Chairman, at this point point going to ask that respectfully. I will pass right now on getting my feet wet on this, and I think that's enough for me, right? Sure, and then we are very involved with many other activities. So do we have any other volunteers for this esteemed position? Mr. Chairman, I would recommend it to any of my fellow commissioners as a good place to go. I know that I'm this past year's representative, Parks and Recadviser Report, and have done it in past years so that I think it is a good learning experience because you'll be with the board to see how they operate and introduce to some of the other functions in the city. If we have another person who would be willing to do that, then I would strongly recommend it and be very happy to work with the transition and introducing you attending meetings or discussing any of the functions that go on with it. If there's no one else who is willing to do it, then please come back to me. Great, Ms. Cullian. Thank you. Mr. Landis, would you be interested? Thank you, sir, for stepping up. Mr. Cun, we're- No, I would just want to say it's a fun place because I need to come to that meeting. Yeah, they really are very, very good group of people. Absolutely. Good. All right. So we have our two appointments to boards and commissions. Let's move on to the staff report. We've actually covered the only thing that I had and that was actually have in the past put together schedules, proposed schedules and listings of all of the cases, land use cases that go to City Council and the ones that are sort of on the horizon have not applied yet. I do think I could start making a planning commission aware of what's going on out there so that you can at least get an idea ahead of time of rather than be surprised when you see public hearing announced or something. With the expectation that I may be doing a little both, leading the handling applications like zoning cases, and land use cases going to city council and the work of this body, staffing, providing staff support to both bodies. I will be bringing you as much information as I can. For now, the items that we discussed earlier, the Comments of Plan and Zoning, Ordinance Revision and Fairfax Boulevard Master Planning Effort are the ones that I see on the horizon as being primary thrust of the staff work efforts to support the Planning Commission. There will also be these from time to time zoning text amendments as we discussed one today. And then you may recognize that on the average we have about in the past about one zoning case every two years, we have three currently that we're handling that will be coming to Planning Commission for first-to-work session and then a public hearing to recommend Action City Council over the next few months. I expected probably March and April We will be having the three of these so expect work sessions on those three and then following up with Public hearing and recommendation. We also expect a couple of projects to require a conference of plan amendments. So you will also have, take some action on those over again, over the next two or three months. That's about all I see on the horizon, but that's partially because I'm just getting involved. And as soon as I get a better view of it, I'll pass it along. Okay. The next meeting. Thank you, Mr. Belovins. Any other questions? Who is your beloved? Okay, let us move. Yeah, let's cut again. One, I know that Miss Godelessa before she departed left us in agenda for an approach to the comprehensive plan for the five year update. And I would hope that Mr. Foster is our incoming chairman. Mr. Hudson is the director of community planning and development and Mr Mr. Blubbins could work to attempt to adhere to that schedule in some form or fashion, because I know it was an aggressive schedule and with workload it will be a challenge to keep up, but I thought it was a well laid out schedule and wrote map for us if we could follow it. I think it'll be good to play your eyes or work, but having two of the three names that you mentioned is Hokies. We will probably have some kind of external review to say that we're out intent for this to be a completely Hokie exercise. That's what you meant. The third is a Wahoo. Don't worry about it. Any other discussion points? All right. Thank you. the third is a Wahoo, don't worry about it. Any other discussion points? All right, thank you. The final item of the agenda of the evening is commission comments. Are there any comments this evening? I think we've talked everyone out. Well, gentlemen, ladies, I'd like to Mr. Foster. I have a question. Yes, sir. If you don't mind. As Chairman Lack, I'd like to ask Mr. Cunningham and Mr. Walthacellee to continue with the Beyond the Fairfax Boulevard Master Plan work that you've been doing. And I would like to find some way whether we have to go to Falls Church, but we need to do something appropriate for this kind of lesson. Whether it's a gift or a certificate or a cake from Victoria's cake, or you know, but do they charge for that free plug? I think we need to recognize her efforts and her help to this party. I think that's a great idea. I would be honored to continue in that role and would second the honorary recognition to the Scott Lesser. Mr. Todd. Mr. Schum, I just don't think you're going to be going to be doing this. I just want you to make a personal comment. I have been in the push itself because I really enjoyed the fact that he actually worked for it last six months. I will retire it as an advocate part of the job. And then part time became two days and two days. And now, first time after the entirety of knowledge the time job and heavy duty for time job, like I was the first two second annual job, so in 2000, I was 30, I was 16. I was just, there's no way, I mean, I find it exceedingly difficult to find time to serve on the academic mission. And unless I had time and I'm just, I didn't even, could do a better job. I feel reluctant to continue. So I'm seriously concentrating on designing. The only reason is that I don't have time. And today I want to do this by 30. I want to leave 5.30. I couldn't. Some crisis came and I just said, there is an extremely similar date, I think, I've come home like some year ago. So I just came here only today just to say hello and to say goodbye because I just will be my last meeting and I'll be sending my next presentation to the mayor. It has been fun and I think Paul and he's one of those to Mr. Blivin is also. I was actually teasing a lot and actually, Jack, the most doctor. You were a PhD. How are you still a doctor? I gave it up. Almost. So, finished the classes. That's all. But anyway, I just wanted to say thank you for your companionship sport. And basically, I'm sorry when I had to do that. So I can't continue. But I don't think I want to say that I enjoyed the job I had and I think it's kind of strange that at this stage in my life I'll be more secure to my people. I'm not going to have you. I'm going to have a lot of things on my behalf. Well, I'd be, thank you. I mean, certainly your commitment to this body and your counsel to all of us has been extremely appreciated and while we'll be a loss to the commission, we all wish you well. And I think it's a blessing to all of the students and the faculty who you're working with. So that's wonderful. Enjoy being busy. That's a good problem. students and the faculty who you're working with. So that's wonderful. Enjoy being busy. That's a good problem. And on my closing note, I just want to say that it has been an honor and a privilege to sit in this chair for two years. And I look forward to continue to be a member of the team and working collaboratively with each of you. I'm very excited about the leadership we've chosen. And I think our best work is ahead of us, the zoning process, the master plan, the BID. There's so many good things happening in the city, and I have no doubt that we will address the economic challenges we have to face, not only on a local level, but as a nation. And so as a local volunteer, this is my joy, and I know it's each of yours. So with that, happy and healthy new year, and we are adjourned. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.