KING GEORGE VIRGINIA AGENDA King George County Board of Zoning Appeals Tuesday, January 28th, 2025, at 6:30 p.m. CALLTO ORDER APPROVALOF MINUTES PUBLIC HEARINGS None OLD BUSINESS None NEW BUSINESS Annual Report Election of Officers Review of By-Laws Establishment of Meeting Date Review of BZA Duties OTHER BUSINESS ADJOURNMENT August 27th, October 2nd, November 6th, 2024 Disclosure of Real Estate Holdings Filings Thosei interested ina attendingt thisn meeting whomayh haveaneedf fora ani interpreter orhearing assistance equipment duetoahearingi impaimment should pleased contact ouro officea at5 540-775-9181 (DD540-75-2049)bym noon ont thef Fridayb beforethemeeting. Af final agendav witha alls supportingd documentation willl bea available ont the county'swebsite at www.kinggeorgecountyva.govy. King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 King George Board of Zoning Appeals 08272024 ierrah@co.kinggeorge-stateya.us scribie Audio' Iranscriptiony Perfected tps/vribiecon/ie-va6.i-AADAN2ANlc4s.dMes1 01/14/25 Page 1 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appcals 08272024 Tony Scaramozzi: It's 6:30. Being the Chairman, I call this meeting to order. There are first order ofbusinesses, business, but I would like to say that I would ask everyone to silence their phone [0:00:45.9] invocation. [pause] [0:01:27.8] [0:02:00.8] We'll do the pledge of allegiance uh) Bob, anyone? And I'll follow that with the Tony Scaramozzi: Father we ask that you be with us today as we do the business oft the county. Tony Scaramozzi: First order of business is approval ofthe minutes from the previous meeting. to walk through the minutes. Members not present, uh, Kevin Buckley at the mecting. And Bob Vannatta will uh not... We do not expect you to vote on the minutes. [0:02:31.3]. minutes were: approved before that, previous minutes. Thank you, Amen. Lucy, if we stray, feel free to say, uh, you forgot something. Solv will give us time quorum, [pause] Tony Scaramozzi: Any feedback by the board on page one? Umm, I have a question. II have in my mind that Mr. Varney was nominated as the vice chair, Idon't see that in the minutes. Lucy' Tuthill: We can have it amended. Would you like that? Tony Scaramozzi: Yes, please. Lucy Tuthill: Page one? Tony Scaramozzi: Yes. Right in the paragraph. Uh, chairman afterreview then, you know motion was made and seconded and voted on. Lucy' Tuthill: Okay. I'I have that amended. Tony Scaramozzi: Anything on the second page? Uh. Comments. Walter Moss: Mr. Chair I,I will say on the second page, it has adjournment for Mr. Vannatta and myself, making the motion. Umm, Iv wasn't here unfortunately, a number of other issues, sol I think that needs tol be corrected.) I don't know who made the motion, but it was because it wasn't me. Tony Scaramozzi: Anybody that was there remember who made the motion? [pause] Robert Vannatta: I would, uh, reword it just to, uh, account for the motion being made to. just leave out the name. I would... Tony Scaramozzi: Sorry. Mr. Vannatta's name. 01/14/25 Robert Vannatta: I would reword it just to account for the motion being made and just leave off Page 2of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 Tony Scaramozzi: Ist there aj motion to accept the minutes as amended? Robert Vannatta: No. Mark Varney: Yes. Tony Scaramozzi: Well, that's thes section on the first part. This is the section on the second part. Is there a motion to, uh, accept the minutes as amended. Tony Scaramozzi: All those in favor say aye. Walter Moss: Mr. Chair. I make ai motion to accept the minutes as amended. Mark Varney: Aye. Tony Scaramozzi: Any opposed? Robert Vanmatta: Nay. Tony Scaramozzi: Motion carries, minutes are approved as amended. Tony Scaramozzi: Next order of business is a public hearing on the variance case, variance request Case Number Zulu, Z, sorry, 2024-00196. Request by Dwayne Carabin, property owner ofa variance from, for variance from the requirements of section 5-2-6-D, I'm sorry, 6'D'5'II, per section 5213 oft thel King George County zoning and subdivision ordinance for the construction of a 40: foot by 501 foot accessory bond witha 15 foot overhang in the landward 50 foot of the resource protection area buffer. Total encroachment into thel RBA, RPA buffer is 4,950 square feet. Tax map 18 bravo 1, parcel 13, 2.02 acres zoned A2, which is Royal Agricultural. Uh, if, umm, sorry, your last name again? Matthew Smoluik: Smolnik. Tony Scaramozzi: Smolnik. Mr. Smolnik, uh, I will ask you to proceed inj just a moment. You'll begin, I assume, with the county's position. So what I wanted to do is to make sure that if you read your packets board, you will see that the guidelines havel been, were presented to you last, uh, meeting by Mr. Stewart. Be aware oft those responsibilities. Make sure we execute in according with those responsibilities as stated. Uh, I was thinking about reading it, but I don't think that's necessary. So uh we can surface or I'l surface ift necessary for board. Go ahead. Matthew Smolnik: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Members oft the board, sir. S?: [0:09:05.9] Tony Scaramozzi: Accepted. Matthew Smolnik: Members of the board. Matthew Smolnik, your county administrator. I'm also serving as the, the, the zoning administrator for King George County, umm, along to some of my other duties. So I want to preface this by, Ii inherited this case. There may be some history prior to my time. Istarted June 1, 2024 with the county. Soldid my best to piece it all together and, and 01/14/25 Page 3 of31 King Gcorge Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 make this, uh, presentation to you tonight along with the help of some of our current staff members. So back in January of2024, there was an application made to the then planning director, zoning administrator, to: request a, an exception, an administrative exception, into the first 50 foot landward ofthe, uh, 100 foot RPA buffer. That request was denied. A letter was sent out to the applicant. The applicant utilized, uh, King George zoning ordinance section 5-2-10 to appeal to the board of zoning appeals, which is where we're, why we're here tonight. Where this particular section of the code, uh, 5,2,6 6,D5-1, talks about the requirements, talks about the 100 foot buffer that is required. Ithink we're all familiar with that. This is where it's highlighted in, in local code. Matthew Smolnik: So the purpose ofi intent of a variance pursuant to the code of Virginia ist to allow forai reasonable deviation from the provisions oft this ordinance regulating the shape, size or area ofal lot or parcel or land or the size, height, area, bulk, and thisi is the pertinent one here or location of a building or structure. When the strict application of this ordinance would unreasonably restrict the utilization of the property, other relief or remedy is not available. Such need fora variance would not be shared generally by other properties and provided such variance is not contrary to the purpose of this ordinance. So when you look at this unreasonably restrict the utilization of this property, thej primary use on this property is a single family dwelling. It has been Matthew Smolnik: That is the primary use of this particular property. Can you go back please? Other relief or remedy is not available. So are there areas outside the RPA that a, a structure can be Matthew Smolnik: Such a need for variance would not be shared generally by other properties. The RPA, umi is, is this the only property with RPA in this area of the county, where is this a, a constraint shared by others int the county? And provided that such variance is not contrary to the purpose of this ordinance. Thej purpose of the ordinance is to allow, um there's an appeals process, but it is to provide a 1001 foot buffer. And then there are the provisions, the administrative exception Matthew Smolnik: Next slide, please. So 16012, this is the the property in question. The white arrow is the approximate location of thej proposed 2000 square foot garage. Next slide, please. So this is a view from uh the the public road. You'll see the, thel house int the background there. And with the driveway, thet the proposed structure would be on the left-hand side uh the and in the,i in the wooded area. Next slide. So this is an, an overall, this is uh something that was provided uh to the Matthew Smolnik: Machodoc Creek on one: side, uh residential property, Machodoc Drive, and then Kitchen Creek, uhl I guess, would be up to the north. And the the next slide, wel have the RPA buffer. Next slide, please. There we go. So the limits of the RPA buffer clearly identified on this. Matthew Smolnik: And you can see the existing single family dwelling that predates the Chesapeake! Bay ordinance. So really anything to the the um the the dots are small, but anything to the this side, the, the upside of this yellow line is in the resource protection area buffer and you'll see the 2000: square foot detached structure along with the, um the the proposed apron that are, that are in thel RPA buffer. Areas outside the RPA buffer are highlighted in yellow so the question that was asked is can you put a smaller garage in this area? I asked the this was a question uh that I had with the applicant in my office several weeks ago. So that's a question that the, thel BZA will need to consider you know whether or not to allow a 2000 square foot structure an apron in thel RPA or in existence. built? That's that section. and the board of zoning appeals. county. This just shows the overall property boundaries. can as smaller garage be placed on this property? 01/14/25 Page 4 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 Matthew Smolnik: So a variant should be granted ift the evidence shows that a strict application of the terms oft the ordinançe would unreasonably restrict the utilization oft thej property or that granting the variance would alleviate al hardship. So is there al hardship on this property?1 It's currently being used as a single-family dwelling. The applicant wishes to construct a 2000 square foot garage. Iti is my understanding that the garage willl house boats, multiple automobiles and some Matthew Smolnik: These are your conversations with the applicant. I'm sure he can um elucidate on them al little bit later on. And then there are, there are different provisions, five different provisions in the uhi in the code, whether or not the um the property was acquired in good faith. And and these five conditions are outlined in the narrative that was submitted by the applicant. The granting of variance will not be a s-substantial detriment to the adjacent properties or nearby Matthew Smolnik: Such condition uh is, um is not of gencral or recurring nature that can be resolved by an ordinance amendment. Next slide. The granting of the variance does not result in a use that would otherwise bej permitted on such aj property or change the zoning for classification. And finally, um the relief or remedy sought by the variance is not available through the: special exception process. So with that, in, in, in addition to thes staffuh report, and that is, thati is the end of Matthew Smolnik: Pass out to the applicant and to the five BZA members. I know there have been some communications with DEQ, umI,Ibelieve from the applicant side and from staff side. Presented to both the applicant and to thel Board of Zoning Appeals is a, is an email from Mr. Daniel Moore with thel Department of] Environmental Quality from Friday August 23rd at 1:44 sent totol Lucy here in thei in the Community Development Department. It's regarding 16012 Machodoc Matthew Smolnik: Uh. You will: see. in the, in the email um as discussed, these are the criteria that they're gonna look at in the Ches... In the county's Bay ordinance. That serve as a basis for the county BZ and its deliberations here tonight, August 27, 2024. Draw your attention to number three, based on the County Department of Community Development staffi report, staff's recommendation that the BZA deny this e-exception AKA variance uh request seems appropriate given that A, the current proposed plaçement of a concrete drive and detached garage relatives oft the onsite RPA. B, how the current proposal would result in excessive amount of RPA encroachment square footage. And CI how the five findings reference above have not been met per county staff recommendations. That's the end of my presentation, Mr. Chairman. II bel happy to answer any questions at the side-by-sides. properties. my presentation. drive BZ items Z-2024-00196. appropriate time. Tony Scaramozzi: Questions at this time? Walter Moss: Well, I,Ihave one. I mean, I know this is probably an unfair question. You may not answer it. Um. Given these situations, have the county, have we ever actually given a variance in this situation where we are within the RPA? And I, and I recognize you're three months here and then Lucy's limited time here. You may not have that history. But I just wanted to see if you... Matthew Smolnik: Right and I'mi not... And I'm looking at my... Yeah, good question. You know my 21, my 20 years of experience in the community development world, the answer to your question is no. And I've got uh a certified zoning official over my right shoulder. He has 30 years 01/14/25 Page 50 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appcals 08272024 experience. Mr. Kenny Vaughn, ifI need to bring him up, you know we, we can ask the same Matthew Smolnik: But you know we've worked together for 10 years in New Kent and and you know an exception you have toj prove. And it's the applicant's responsibility to prove that there isa hardship that you cannot use this property. The main use is for a single-family dwelling. question for him. Walter Moss: No, thank you. That helps. Matthew Smolnik: Thank you. Tony Scaramozzi: So Mr. Carabin, Emily, I don't know who's gonna be reporting, but you have 10 Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Chairman and members ofthel Board of Zoning Appeals, thank you for being present to hear our case today. Before we start the clock, uh Ihave: ai minor request for the board to consider. We understand staff's time time constraints and the department being short staff. Wel have not had ai formal sit down with current staff to explain the full scope of our project and would like the opportunity to provide. a comprehensive overview for everyone, whether it's the board, staff, members of the public, sO on and so forth. Uh. We're just kindly requesting the board grant us an additional five minutes 'cause there are already some inaccuracies, understandably because the staffl had just joined the department a few months ago, but we can provide some a- additional uh information on why and how we're even requesting this variance. minutes. Tony Scaramozzi: Any contentions? Granted. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Thank you, Chairman and members of the board. Uh. First things first, I really like to take a moment to thank Lucy Tuthill for her diligence, considering she only has been with, with uh the county for a few months. We have moved sO much further in thej past couple months with Lucy than we. have since we submitted a inquiry in July of 2023. So today, we're requesting the approval of our special exception to the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act. Tony and Laura Carabin own this gorgeous creek farmj property and Tony is the applicant in this hearing. My name is Savannah Carabin Wimbush and I'm representing my parents. I'm al King George native and I currently work for Stafford County. II have a background in code compliance, environmental programs, permitting, zoning, and other land use: functions of community development, I've had the pleasure of serving as staff liaison and the clerk for the Stafford County Chesapeake Bay Board, Wetlands Board, and Coastal Primary Sand Dunes Board.I've underwent training from DEQ for the Stormwater Management Program Administrator Certification and thel Erosion and Sediment Control Program Administrator Certification. We're joined by my younger sister, Lindsay, and my husband, DeMarcus, who is also employed by Stafford County as al Residential Building Inspector. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Our family's recreated in the Machodoc Creek for over 15 years and my parents have enjoyed boating on the Potomac River for over 30. It's been a lifelong dream to own a property, just like this and their dream was realized last spring. Soa few details about the property. It'si important to note this is not an appeal. We are not appealing the decision oft thej permit. Wei never filed an appeal for that permit. We are simply requesting a variance and I'l get into the specifics and the difference. Uh. Wei requested this appeal under Richard Stuart, Jr. Unfortunately, he left prior to actually scheduling this hearing. I'll get into that. This is a variance request in order to approve a special exception to the state code. We'll get into what that means later. As you can see here, my parent's property consists of two parcels that form aj peninsula bordered by Kitchen Creek 01/14/25 Page 6of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 and Machodoc Creek. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: The project site is located right off Machodoc Drive in the front of the property in the cleared area. It's important to note we have not disturbed property at all. This is the state the property was in when it was purchased and this lot is considered aj pre-Chesapeake Bay lot. So this is really important. This is our timeline. In. July of2023, the applicant came tot the permit office after he was advised, obviously by me, that the garage he wanted to build may encroach on thel RPA. The applicant was advised to engage an environmental. en-engincering firm and a surveyor to develop site p-plans for the project. The en-environmental engineering firm and the surveyor inquired about how to proceed with a special exception as they were: familiar with the process in other counties. The now: former community development staff could not provide Savannah Carabin Wimbush: And sO the applicant kind of was told, you know sorry for your luck, and that it couldn't be done. In September of 2023,Is started assisting my father with this project and met briefly with the former acting director and asked for the criteria to meet before the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Board in which he responded, the county does not have one. In February, 2024, aftermuch back and forth, the former acting director stated we could simply submit aj permit as planned so he could deny thej permit and we could appeal the decision to the BZA. We submitted the permit and just prior to actually appealing, I consulted with an environmental planner and wetland scientist from another locality and he advised us that this was not the best route as the state code only offers means by which county staff can administratively approve an approachment without aj public hearing. Staff cannot approve or deny CBPA special exceptions. That is up to the Savannah Carabin Wimbush: After much discussion in April, 2024, the former acting director notified us that the county attorney's office advised that under the new King George zoning and subdivision ordinance umm adopted in. January, 2024, we could request a variance in order for the BZA to hear our Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act special exception case. We were advised that our application would need a water quality impact assessment, or WQIA, and that our application would be considered complete and ready to bel heard by the BZA. Wei immediately got to work on this and submitted our site plans, the WQIA, and the application fee. We were elated that it felt like this was finally coming to a close. Unfortunately, the former acting director left before scheduling before scheduling our hearing. Upon arrival of the new staff, we understandably were subject toa host of questions and new requirements while they got acclimated to our project. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Unfortunately, due to staffing shortages and subsequent lack of availability, we never really had the opportunity to sit down with the current staff and explain our project or do a site visit, umm this timeline and any oft the other information that we have. We were advised by Supervisor Davis and Mr. Smolnik that there may bes some. hesitancy in approving the special exemption. We totally understand. Perhaps it's because variances are for true zoning issues. Wev will address how it is appropriate for this request to bel heard and approved by the BZA. In addition, we're confident that once we outline how we've met the variance criteria and the state's RPA encroachment performance measures we'll all be on the same page. Sorry, I'ma a little nervous. So as far as administrative relief, thej previous ordinance and the new ordinance copy the excerpt displayed by the state code. This ordinance was cited multiple times during our application process back to. July of 2023 as the means for the project not to come to fruition. However, this code section defines reliefa available administratively without a formal hearing in the cases ofal primary dwelling or necessary utilities, whereas other special exceptions must follow the process fora a formal hearing. instructions on how to request a special exception to the CBPA. designated body, you all, and we'll cover that in just a minute. 01/14/25 Page 7of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 Tony Scaramozzi: Can you go back as slide? Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Oh, yes, sir. Tony Scaramozzi: Talking too fast for me tol hear, Savanmah Carabin Wimbush: My apologies. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yeah, I am trying tol keep under [laughter] my 15 minutes. Please let me know when I'm okay to proceed. Thank you. All right. So: as you can see on the left, Ic cited the section ofs state code that outlines the procedures for granting of exceptions to the requirements of the CBPA and that mandates local governing bodies must hold aj public hearing before making a decision on any request for an exemption or variance. Ia also outlined the different types of boards localities may create in order to hear cases like this. Currently, King George only has a wetlands board. However, the state code does advise that localities may consolidate responsibilities into fewer boards or assign overlapping duties to existing bodies. And T'l cover why the BZA, although it's for the Board of Zoning Appeals, is hearing a special exception. Again, this is not an appeal of an already made decision. So whyi is this not being heard by the wetlands board? Savannah Carabin Wimbush: As you saw on thel left side, the wetlands board reviews and issues permits for activities that may impact impact title wetlands, such as the construction of shoreline structures. So their area of focus is actively or activity right at the shoreline. Also, on the last slide, we saw that a Chesapeake Bay Board reviews development proposals grants exceptions or variances to CBPA regulations and ensures activities within the RPAS and RMAS don't negatively impact water quality. Again, King George does not have a Chesapeake Bay Board. However, King George adopted the Chesapeake. Bay) Preservation Act underi its zoning ordinance. Therefore, all, all matters related to CBPA that cannot be heard by the Wetlands Board automatically default to the BCA. Wel know these projects are happening throughout the county. We're not in the business of tattling, especially since CBPA is a beast to understand and most people have no idea about these guidelines. We're here today because we conducted our due diligence. We reviewed all of the meeting minutes oft the BZA back to 2014 and there has not been a CBPA case heard for encroaching on the buffer. Wel know these structures exist and havei it administratively approved and some have been unpermitted. Wel have a solution nonetheless, and that's to meet the county's requirements for a variance in order to prove that we: meet the state's RPA performance criteria. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: So as I mentioned, I'm, work in another locality and I was the clerk for the Chesapeake Bay Board for Staffer County. This is what a1 routine CBPA special exemption process looks like. So the applicant presents thej permit office with plans to build a structure. Staff says, hold on, wait a minute. There's definitely environmental concerns and they direct the applicant to the environmental planner or staff liaison. The, uh, environmental planner or staff liaison works with that applicant to is this, you know, the minimum encroachment, is there any other place we can move this, SO on and sO forth. Richard Stuart Jr, did the best he could to help us move it here, there, everywhere, make this bigger, make this smaller. And the s-site plans that we submitted, we were told were, [laughter] the best that we could submit meeting those conditions. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Umm afterworking with the environmental planner or staff liaison tot those boards umm once the planner green lights it, the applicant submits their application package to be heard by the respective CBPA board with their site plans and WQIA, and the respective board hears, the case, confirms the applicant has properly addressed the state's Umm, I kind of went off script for a second. 01/14/25 Page 8 of31 King Gcorge Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 performance criteria and either approves, approves with modification or denies the exception. So, uh, here's how we met the criteria for a variance. The property was acquired in good faith bymy parents to reside full-time in their pre and post-retirement years. The hardship arises from the lack ofofs structure to hear a CBPA case. Again, this is not an appeal outside of wetland's concerns. In addition to the lots challenging topography and being aj pre-Chesapeake Bay Act lot. Granting this variance will: not have any detriment to the adjacent properties. The project in its entirety, both stormwater BMPs and the structure will fit iny with the existing environment and will adhere to the Savannah Carabin Wimbush: We dol have the support oft the adjacent property owners. This is not of general or reoccurring nature that could be resolved with an amendment to the ordinance, because this hearing is a formality required by the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act. This project cannot be administratively or approved by denied by county staff because it is ai request for an exception to the CBPA. Ifit wasn't fort the RPA, this project would not be an issue. The granting of the variance does not result in a use that is otherwise not permitted on the property because the proposed project is al by-right use under the A2 zoning classification, having this hearing again is merely a formality required by the CBPA. Lastly, there is no relief through other processes because this hearing is a requirement under the CPA. We met with the former acting director to try every which way to build the proposed project without encroaching on the RPA, but it did not meet the mandatory set, setbacks. Uh, this also satisfies ai requirement in that state's) performance measures Savannah Carabin Wimbush: I wanted to include this for anyone, umm, listening to this presentation. Before we, get into the state's performance measures, it's important to know what exactly an RPA is and does. The RPA is defined as al land adjacent to water bodies with perennial flow that has an intrinsic water quality value due to the ecological and biological processes it performs or because it is sensitive to impacts which may result in significant degradation ofthe quality of state waters. In our case, thel RPA is al hundred foot riparian buffer that abuts the shoreline ofat thej property. Thej purpose of this buffer is to filter out nitrogen, phosphorus, and sediment from stormwater runoff before enters the adjacent water bodies. This filtration helps protect the water quality of the creek, the Potomac River, and all other water that enters Chesapeake Bay. So this is kind ofl like the structure for how we, get our uh encroachment special exception approved. First, we prepared our WQIA current staff also requested a Virginia runoff reduction methods spreadsheet. Both are found on the back pages oft the site plans provided. Second, we implemented stormwater best management, best management practices or BMPS and our: site plans Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Third, we work with the engineer and former staff to ensure the encroachment is the minimum necessary to achieve reasonable buildable structure. Fourth, our plans include the establishment of a vegetated area on the lot that compensates for the buffer encroachment. We've already engaged a native vegetation supplier and they're on standby to acquire and install the vegetation outlined in the table in the: site plans. Fifth, we're required to havea formal hearing. Six, we. have to maintain compliance with the performance criteria, which we'll Savannah Carabin Wimbush: I'm the reason why we received the email from Mr. Moore. Ic called him up last week. Umm, he's the principal environmental planner with DEQs Office of Watersheds and local government. He is the county CBPA liaison for projects like this. Hel kindly provided me with the guidance he gives to Chesapeake Bay Preservation Boards to determine whethera aj project should be. approved ort not. And it's outlined here in, in subsequently in the letter that you received performance criteria for RPAs. that I'll outline in just a minute that we both received from, uh, Mr. Moore. to control runoff. cover in the next slide. 01/14/25 Page 9 of31 King George Board of'Zoning Appcals 08272024 because thisi is where you as a board decide if we can: meet the criteria to be granted a special Savannah Carabin Wimbush: So I'm gonna get into our site plans. Upon staff requests, asI mentioned, we included the VRRM spreadsheet. That requirement fort the use oft the VRRM is not directly in the code pertaining to RPA special exceptions, but is instead detailed in the Virginia Stormwater Management: Program, VSMP regulations, which are part of the Virginia exception. Administrative Code. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: The spreadsheet is used to calculate necessary pollutant reductions and to demonstrate that a project meets the required standards for managing stormwater runoff, particularly for new development and redevelopment projects. So let's go back to that picture of the project site again. You can see here, hopefully this is al laser, healthy riparian buffers providea Savannah Carabin Wimbush: The mitigation provided in the table is to provide the same pollutant removal as a healthy riparian buffer. This site currently does not have a 100-foot riparian Savannah Carabin Wimbush: It's not even grass uh. This was the way, it was this way when my parents acquired the property. Umm as part of this project, we're meeting the full mitigation requirements for disturbance in thel RPA by replanting trees, shrubs, etcetera at the same rate required by the riparian buffers manual. Therefore, we're providing additional pollutant removal above the existing site conditions. At this point, the flow well was added as an additional measure, although as as outlined in our plans, we met the mitigation requirements with vegetation alone. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Post-construction, we plan to further enhance the natural swale immediately adjacent to the project site to maximize the health and efficiency of this natural storm water management feature. We are committed to the overall ecological health of our property and wel know that the existing conditions of our shoreline were not ideal in filtering out pollutants. We've obtained overall preliminary approval for a Virginia Conservation Assistance Program VCAP grant through the' Tri-County City Soil and Water Conservation District to construct al living shoreline to combat significant crosion and undercutting, also aligning with the Chesapeake Bay Savanmah Carabin Wimbush: The project has been approved by the Virginia Shoreline Erosion Advisory Service and wel have entered the design phase for this project as well. Umm and just sO you all know, that's uh far more uh efficient than traditional riprap revetment or a seawall, sO we really are going the extra mile on the overall ecological health oft this entire property. So this concludes our presentation and wei respectfully request the Board of Zoning Appeals approve our variance requests or at min-minimum entertain approval with modification. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: There has been a whole lot of runaround. We've been trying to do this project fora year and al half umm. The applicant has spent just about $10,000 meeting the requirements set forth by three different uh acting community development directors. We're truly pollutant removal. buffer. As you can see, it's sand. Preservation Act's mission. really trying toj put this baby to bed. So thank you for hearing us out. Tony Scaramozzi: Could you repeat your request approval for what? Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Uh technically, the we're requesting the approval of our special 01/14/25 Page 10 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 exception to the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act, umm but if that's not possible, we would love to entertain an approval with modification umm. Uh. When I was talking tol Mr. Moore, he did,Iask you to hit restart, please. Thank you. He asked us if on the, yes me, sorry, if on the site plans, let me Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Actually, you guys have the site plans. Taking that northwest comer, hes said, if you agree to simply potentially drop that northwest corner just to eliminate some of the concrete uh between like the garage doors and the driveway, he said, that can makea significant differencei in the encroachment. I called my dad and said, hey, would you be amenable to that? Hes said, absolutely.1 I wish somebody would have suggested that sooner. Soi it'si not like we've Savannah Carabin Wimbush: When I initially emailed him, he said, umm this is technical assistance you should be receiving by the county, no shade to county staff. We've. just have dealt with al bunch of different county staff and we never did a site visit, Mr. Moore looked on Google Maps. He was like, well, this is a completely vegetated area.] Isaid, hold on, let me send youa a picture. This is aai field of of sand that's not even contributing to thei riparian buffer. So this is Walter Moss: Excuse me. So instead of having an asphalt in front of the garage, you could have get toit. really received technical assistance. I'm backing up forj just a second. where we're. at, sorry. like a gravel type of thing and it would bel better, ori is that considered? Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Are you asking if we would consider that? Lucy Tuthill: I wasj just curious ify you'd looked into that. No, no, outside, you know instead of Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Because the asphalt asphalt um creates an impervious surface that having an asphalt. water can't seep into the ground. Walter Moss: Good. Thank you. questions forme? just preference? Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Thank you. Umm I'ml I'm sorry. Do you all have any more Tony Scaramozzi: I have uh one to start umm. You mentioned preference for native species. Why Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Uh: SO okay umm, as I mentioned, uh I work in local government and Idid al lot of work with environmental programs uh. Native vegetation, it's detrimental to the overall ecological health of anything along our streams, creeks, rivers, SO on and sO forth. I actually have a list. I'm working with a gentleman who owns Sustainable Landscapes. It's a non-profit out of Hague. Umm and he has already provided me an entire list of everything that he would plant to. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: So this table right here outlines how many exact canopy trees, uh understory trees, shrubs and the exact type of stuff that you have to get into. Umm I've already engaged the specialists to do that, And the reason why native vegetation is sO important is native Savannah Carabin Wimbush: That's meant for like, I'm not an engineer here, but it's meant to uh vegetation has deeper roots. 01/14/25 Page 11 of31 King Gcorge Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 retain like dirt and sediment. And it also can provide additional filtration other than like like Bradford pear trees are actually horrible, but you see them planted everywhere. Native vegetation does the jobi needed foraj project in the tidal tidal wetlands of Virginia so. Savanmah Carabin Wimbush: And that is expensive. We're talking upwards of7 to 10 grand just for the vegetation alone. Tony Scaramozzi: SoIIthink you) misunderstood my question. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: I'm sorry, sir. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Oh, okay. Tony Scaramozzi: It think what you answered was what I was looking for. Tony Scaramozzi: You are you are stating a a real preference for planting native vegetation. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Oh, yes, absolutely. Tony Scaramozzi: Not just aj preference. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: No, this isn't, you know a mum. here or this there. II cannot even pronounce some of the: scientific names oft the native vegetation provided to us in this extensive list by that uh specialist who only sells native vegetation. Tony Scaramozzi: Yeah. Thank you, Savannah Carabin Wimbush: You're welcome. Walter Moss: Umm I have a question for staff. Staff, how much oft this presentation is new for Matthew Smolnik: For me personally, I've had two conversations with Mr. Carabin in my office. you? One, one, I've seen him one time. S?: [0:38:15.4] Tony Scaramozzi: Uh well, I'm gonna open for the board to discuss. They may have questions you know... Normally what you would expect is you'd be finished. We'd ask ai few, you'd sit down, but it's important enough that we explore this more fully, that we allow the board to question you directly after you've made your presentation. All right. Is that satisfactory with you? Then It thought Mr. Davis: Ijust I,Ididn't know if you guys had seen the um, some oft the natural things that they're putting out there to save the shorelines. I had a chance to visit. I do: al lot ofwork on the Machodoc. Not them personally, but some of the pcople in King George, that, and that's some oft the stuff that they're proposing. Their banks are eroding around their house. AsIwalked, we walked all around and looked at it. It is, it comes out to a peninsula, but some oft the things they're proposing doing, they bring in tons of sands. Then they fill these long bags full of oyster shells and they lay them out all across the, the bank there. And then they come in and plant the natural grass that's from the Isaw Mr. Davis's hand up. Sol Il entertain that. 01/14/25 Page 12 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 Machodoc, that's natural to there. And it just grows up. Mr. Davis: So all that bank, all that area right there already has some vegetation in it, but if they take that barrier around there and put those oyster shells and put that natural grass, it's gonna protect that. I had a, the chance to see one of our constituents right down from them. And he did it all the way around his whole entire property, had Burgess coming to doi it. And it's absolutely beautiful. I've seen pictures of what it looked like before and what it looks like now.. And that whole shoreline has just been preserved for years. And it might be something worth coming out to, tol look at. Um. He's familiar with you guys too. And SO is um one of the guys on the other boards, but it just,Iwas, Mr. Davis: So much sO that I've met with thel base about doing the cliffs that are Machodoc. Idon't know ify you've seen them over on, on Pumpkin Hill across there about... Now they're talking about coming and doing the exact same thing toj protect those lands and protect those cliffs from falling 'cause the cliffs are kind of neat looking. People like to see them. Soi if,if... The government's kind ofl looking at doing that overt there for us. And that's what they'rel looking to do here' 'cause you can see what it's kind ofl looking like. And it needsto be protected, but they! bring those in and plant that grass and it's gonna make a al heck ofa difference fori it. That's alll wanted to add. Iv was impressed byi it. Tony Scaramozzi: Yeah. Tony Scaramozzi: I'ms sorry. Can't hear you. Tony Carabin: The undercut, um like underneath that shed and along that shoreline behind that grass is cavernous. It's huge. It's,I can crawl in there and wave my hands around.Ineed some some shoreline protection there, which wel have, that's what the oyster bag, I'm: sorry, that's what the Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Just to provide some additional clarity, I understand the project is not about the living shoreline, but we wanted to express just how seriously we take ccolo-ccological health of our property. And that the. Fixing the riparian buffer, 'cause it's obviously not performing as it should be, is just one piece, one component oft the overall overhaul we have to do to this project toj just sustain that shoreline. Because the riparian bufferi is just as important to that project oyster bag um is for, for the undercut. It's SO extensive. as that project is to that riparian buffer. Walter Moss: In other words, you would do this no matter what? Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Oh yeah. We started engaging, um, yeah, VCAP for this well before he even said, oh, let's build a garage. Walter Moss: That's good to know. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yes, sir. Tony Scaramozzi: Anything else from your position? Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Um] I did have the site plans and um our presentation reviewed. And then, now listen no one likes saying, oh, in my county, we do this, yada, yada, yada. But Idid have it reviewed by the environmental engincer for the locality that I work in. And they said that this is aj project that they wouldn't have seen an issue going before Stafford County being approved 01/14/25 Page 13 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 in Stafford County. I have witnessed a similar project be approved as my time as clerk for Stafford County. Uh, hope that helps. I w-wanted to make surel I wasn't like crazy putting this presentation together. Mark Varney: I thought that presentation was very well done. Tony Scaramozzi: Stafford County has different rules and a different approach. M leave it there.I Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yes, sir. It's) just whereas I didn't have any technical assistance help, Ihad wel had to do something. And we utilize our engineer to the extent like financially possible. Um. And they were like, listen, we've never ran into: sO many barriers in communicating with a, a locality to see this project through. So we did the best that we could with the conditions Tony Scaramozzi: Well, I know the staff that was, I don't think we purposely got in the way. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: No, sir. It was absolutely because of being short staffed. I,I,I would tell Richard Stuart, Jr., he did everything hej possibly could. And the fact that he almost got us to the finish finish line, and then, you know, left the county right before scheduling our hearing. And we werel like, okay, well, we hope that we can get this done with the new uh staff. will. that we had. Tony Scaramozzi: II have one thing that you should know. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yes, sir. Tony Scaramozzi: Because of what you asked, either a special exception or approval with modification. It is my understanding that when the board puts forth approval with modification, they can be directed. You understand that? Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yes, sir. Tony Scaramozzi: Ijust wanted you to understand, it may not be an issue for you, but it may be. Fori instance, we probably would, I'm only guessing, direct that you change from a blacktop road, Macadam, sorry, uh to gravel or something more uh open to water flow. It's not impervious. So the Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yes, sir. My apologies. If,ifIcould also answer, I just wanna draw your attention back to that flow well, that is the purpose of that flow well, again, we did not need waterj just doesn't run off. the flow well because of the vegetation. Tony Scaramozzi: I'm, I'm waiting. Go ahead. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Um, however, the engineer put in our plans that, that was, just an extrai mitigation BNP effort for these plants. But yes, the idea of a gravel in front of the garage, we Tony Scaramozzi: All right. Um, sO I'm gonna open it up to the board to discuss and discuss also would entertain. with the. 01/14/25 Page 14 of31 King George) Board ofZoning Appcals 08272024 Lucy Tuthill: First citizens is actually on the bylaws as, um, prior to the discussion. So wej just Tony Scaramozzi: I,I Ididn't, yeah, I didn't hear exactly the front part of your statement. Lucy Tuthill: The, the testimony of citizens wishing to speak is supposed to come next according Tony Scaramozzi: Thank you. Is there someone who would provide testimony to the, to us? have one public comment. tot the bylaws. Lucy' Tuthill: Ijust have one person who, um. Tony Scaramozzi: Oh, you have, you have it written. Lucy' Tuthill: Who provided written comment? Can I speak right here? Tony Scaramozzi: Can you read it? Lucy Tuthill: So this is from, uh, Mrs. Lara Snow Yaris. She dropped this off today because she couldn't be here. She said she wants this read for public comment. So this is why I'm reading it. It will be, she says, it will bei interesting to see what decisions made this evening and how it will impact what may or may not be done now and in the future from my waterfront property, which Tony Scaramozzi: You did notify, I think I saw it in writing that you did notify the other neighbors. What about the, um, public, um, an opportunity for the public? abuts to the Carabins. And this was on 8/27/24. Lucy' Tuthill: It was also posted in the newspaper. Tony Scaramozzi: And there's' been no public response outside of Mrs. Yaris. Lucy Tuthill: Um, not that II know of. And no signatures have signed up for public hearing out in Walter Moss: Uh, question, um, when you were reading, you were kind of going, reading fast. Was the front hallway. that aj pro orac con? Ij just couldn't catch that, Lucy' Tuthill: I would say it was neutral. Walter Moss: Neutral. Okay. That's good. Lucy Tuthill: Would you like to see it? Walter" Moss: No, that's fine. Tony Scaramozzi: I was, you know, I was just gonna ask, you had a question before we start discussion? You had risen your, rose your, raised your hand, gonna check my grammar. Oh, thank Matthew Smolnik: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know there have been, well, a, a couple. May I you. But didn'ty you have a statement earlier you wanted to make. 01/14/25 Page 15of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 make a couple? Tony Scaramozzi: Yes. Matthew Smolnik: So a couple oft things. I was just making some notes. Sol February 26th, 2024, there was a letter that went out from, um, Richard Stuart Jr., denying a request for the administrative exception, uh, 526, uh, D52 of the, the ordinance. And it, it's, it's, it's, it's a long letter, but accessory buildings S structures, uh, only principal structures are permitted to encroach in the RPA buffer. For this reason, the permit application cannot be approved. So that February 26th was the denial from Mr. Stuart. And then per five, where are we at here per, um, 5210 oft the code denial ofj plan, appeal ofconditions, modifications. And I'msaying this, why are we here tonight? In the event that the final plan of any component of the plan of development process is disapproved and recommended conditions or modifications are unacceptable to the applicant, the applicant may Matthew Smolnik: And then at the end oft the overlay, district 513, um, uh, I'm sorry. Yeah, 5213 variance, ai request fora a variance to the requirements of this overlay district, I.e., the Chesapeake Bay preservation area may be made in accordance with. Article 3j permits and applications oft this ordinance. So that's how we, got we, how we, where we are tonight through the Board of Zoning Appeals. I wanted to make those comments. And additionally on the, the application that was submitted, uh, received April 26th, 2024, uh, signed by the applicant and, and they were identifying, they were applying for variance from the provisions of Article. 5, section 5213, which is what Ij just read. So that's why we're here tonight. I wanted to make that clarification. IK know there was a comment made about gravel. I'm not, I don't work for DEQ. I've worked for D you know, worked on development for, for several decades. My understanding working on impervious coveri is gravel is defined as impervious cover per DEQ, same as asphalt. Now, if somebody was here from DEQ, they could be answer this, you know, point to a code section. But in my understanding, in my works with DEQ, that that ist the case. So gravel, um, ist the same as asphalt, same as concrete. A Robert Vannatta: Pardon me, sO a question is, uh, what would be the alternative for something Matthew Smolnik: You know, there are permeable pavers that are out there, there's there, there's.. Matthew Smolnik: Yeah, gravel and permeable paver. Very different in the eyes ofi impervious Mark Varney:It think. Yeah, I think you can continue with with gravel specifically. appeal such administrative decisions to the Board of Zoning Appeals. couple... like that? Robert Vannatta: Oh well, that's allli mean. Permeable Paver. cover. Matthew Smolnik: Um, let me: see here. You know,so the, sO the applicant, um, and I just, let's see here. You know, I,Idid speak with Mr. Carabin asked if you could build a smaller structure. So again, it, it says the applicant's and I commend all the, all the work they've done on the shoreline. What's before you tonight is a 2000 square foot accessory structure and an apron in thel RPA. So is there al hardship for this structure? And can they build somewhere else in the property? Can they Mark Varney: Thank you. Just amend my statement from earlier when I said gravel because I was build something smaller. 01/14/25 Page 16of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 talking about something that was permeable. Matthew Smolnik: Thank you. That's all. Tony Scaramozzi: I have a statement maybe a question. I don't think in my mind that cannot is the term that should have been used in response from Mr. Stuart. He has the option after he evaluates the uh data to make a decision, which then can be appealed, but it's up to him to make that decision before it's brought to us. So cannot, is not appropriate. He could have... Matthew Smolnik: Could have, I'm sorry. Tony Scaramozzi: Made a different decision. But he wrote in there that we cannot because X,Y, Z, we cannot. He could have said X, Y,Zindicates that you're not meeting the requirements and therefore shall currently be denied. Then) he could have gone on with advice on what to do about that. But hej just simply said cannot. And I don't think that was accurate. Can't, go ahead. Mark Varney: Which it was pretty good. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: The administrator may authorize encroachments into the buffer area in accordance with section plan development. Lal la la encroachments into the buffer area shall bet the minimum necessary to achieve a reasonable buildable area: for a principal structure and Tony Scaramozzi: And at that point the administrator is the one who determines what is reasonable and what is not. That's what I meant. He can make a decision that authorizes with adjustments and we could go from there. But anyway, Ijust wanted toj point that out. When you say things like Savannah Carabin Wimbush: And Iwent over this with Mr. Moore, umm, and he said, yes, the, their... You bypass the whole formal hearing scenario, ifit's a ne, like, a, a necessary utilities or a primary dwelling. This is neither. Therefore, it, it isn't up to administrative approval or denial. It has to go before board, before you all. And the crux of the issue is, we asked Mr. Stuart. We said, okay, how do we, go ahead and get that hearing? They were unfamiliar. So, we're like, okay, we go to the Chesapeake Bay Board. What happens? There is no Chesapeake Bay Board. What happens? And they're like, oh, we're not entirely sure. Finally, the new subdivision ordinance says, okay, throwi it... Do not look at the permit. That was a completely different application and not relevant to we've submitted today. This has nothing to do with that permits submitted previously. 'Cause we didn't know. He didn't know, wec didn't know what we're supposed to doi in ordert to get a Chesapeake Bay hearing. So he said, file it. Okay, I figured it out you apply fora variance, it bypasses staff. Staff can assist you, technical assistance-wise, to put your presentation together, your site plans, whatnot. Unfortunately, we didn't receive much technical assistance, and it goes straight to the board. There necessary utilities. cannot, whosel hand, whose hands are tied here. is no staff approval or denial before then. Sorry for long-winded explanation. Walter Moss: Youl have an evaluation from an environmental engineer? Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yes, we did. Walter Moss: It.. Official? Formal? Mr. Davis: Yes, sir. That was the first step, uh, as requested by Heather Hall when she was still 01/14/25 Page 17of31 King Gcorge Board ofZoning Appcals 08272024 here. Walter Moss: Is that avail... Staff, is that available? Lucy' Tuthill: Hello. I can find it on the computer tracking system. It should have also accompanied the packet along with the site plan, the water quality impact assessment. S?: Yeah. Tony Scaramozzi: But we do have a report from the DEQ, uh, water... Hang on a minute. Specifically, quote to cover, you know, RPA management. Got an actual submit that department. Umm, and int the end, it says based on county staff's consultation with DEQ Office of Watersheds, and I unplugged that. On local assistance program staff, county staff, were prepared to work with, uh, the applicant to make necessary revisions to current site plans to show a relocation site for the proposed garage and eliminating of the proposed concrete driveway. So, SO there's, there's room for Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yes, please, 'cause I'm sure we would all love to avoid, or we would especially love to avoid paying another $900 application feej just because we. made, uh, changes to the site plans outside of the discussion happen today. Aslr mentioned, we're already almost 10 grand deep into aj project we don't know if it may or may not come to fruition. So, ify you prefer, we can do an approval with modification, which would be great. Love to talk about it. Or we... Perhaps, we could table this and work with stafft to come up with something that is less ofa an encroachment. However, as Imentioned before, we did work with) Richard Stuart Jr., on that less of an encroachment. And Daniel Moore did say that his immediate thought process was just dropping ust to discuss and negotiate the ground. ai northwest corner. So If feel like we may, just end up in another loop. Tony Scaramozzi: Ms. Truhill... L.. DidIs say it right, Ms. Truhill? Lucy Tuthill: Tuthill. Tuthill, like King Tut... Tony Scaramozzi: Tuthill. Tuthill. Thank you. I just didn't wanna call you by your first name. Ms. Tuthill, umm, if we proceed with discussions on approvals with modification, will the modification Lucy Tuthill: No, it... We've had one public hearing. It'saone-time fee. Unless you have another Tony Scaramozzi: Umm, all right, uh. Ist there anything more: you'd like to offer? By the way,I wanted to offert that you're very astute. You found a way to get the time you need. incur a new: fee? public hearing, there's no other, additional fee. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Doing my best. [laughter] Tony Scaramozzi: The, uh, question from Mr. Varney was if we'd like to move back and doa,a meeting, uh, aj private meeting and come back with our thoughts, um to bel honest, I am very much more supportive of open kimono. SoI I think our discussions could and should be heard by those in Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yes. And if they were to be behind closer, I would've asked what the room. your reason was for a closed meeting. 01/14/25 Page 18 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 Tony Scaramozzi: Well, we don't have to goi into that. And there are: rules. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yes, sir. Tony Scaramozzi: There are rules. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yes. Yeah. Tony Scaramozzi: Idon't think that I'll query the board, but... Savannah Carabin Wimbush: And I believe that open, likei it's obviously not open discourse. You guys are discussing but iflunderstand you may be leaning towards one thing or another, we: may be able to: say, oh, like we hadn'tconsidered that we didn't know about this. Ors say, wel heard you guys were talking about X, Y,Z. Wel hadn't thought about X, Y,Z, but It think this would be the best use of, of all of our time. Umm, because I'm not sure. if there isn't an engineer on staffwho could also advise on these plans for environmental.. Tony Scaramozzi: They have access. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Okay. Tony Scaramozzi: They have access, right? You have access to that. Knowledge base. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: I'l rest my case. I'm sorry, keep going. [laughter] Tony Scaramozzi: No, no, that's, that's it. You can. have a sit then we'll call you or ify you look like you're about to do al hyperbolic rotations, then I'll call you. [laughter] Sorry. So I'd like to open up to the... [laughter] To Mark would get on that. Umm, I, I'd like to open the discussion up to the board. Walter Moss: Sol want, Imean, you did fabulous. I, in your presentation, I can tell this isa passion project for you. You actually put al lot of effort into this. I,It thought it was well presented. Thank you.I think she's representing you guys well. Umm, secondly, I,I I'm very familiar with the property. Imean, [laughter] is what I'll tell you. Umm, and I, I'm familiar with the neighbor that had the, uh, input. I wish it would've been less. I, an email came across neutral. So I,Ib believe when I read the packet, there was neighbor agreement and stuff like that. Umm, I'm assuming you'vel had the actual conversations with' 'em and they, and and you know, the, you know, that went all ina positive, I mean, again, II, I'm very familiar with, it's what I'm telling you. Umm, sO, and unfortunately, you know, there was issue with herl husband passing earlier this year and stuff. Walter Moss: So I, but I just wanna make sure that, umm, you know, you've had these conversations and, uh, and, and I will: say, umm, backing up what Mr. Davis says, like Isaid, I've been on that river, I,I own property up creek, you know, around the bend and up across the bridge and you know, upi furtherup. Umm, sO Iappreciate the effortst that you're putting forth regardless of whether we go forth with this building or not. You know 'cause that shoreline, as you've been described, is eroding. And It think every, if every property owner puts some time and effort into it,I, I,Imeani it's, it'sa a benefit to the comm, you know, everybody on the creek and everything. So, umm, I guess my, my question to you is, is it a 50 by 40 or nothing? Isi is, are you open to a smaller Yes. unit, you know, less ini in: approachable into the RPA?I mean. 01/14/25 Page 19 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 Tony Carabin: Iam, but) I need the space that I'm asking for tol house the things such as my boat on at trailer. Sol I'm not paying Jeff at the marina every year. Likel IH have, like, I have been. Umm, like I have been in thej past, I'd like to store my boat at my own house. So that is a portion ofit.) I have another house that is full of muscle cars, motorcycles, stuff like that, that I would like to move out of. And this was my ultimate retirement spot. And when I purchased the place, I thought to myself, well, there's aj perfect spot for this building. And so, in my mind,Ididn't think that I would have to get rid ofall of my possessions I've owned for 30, 40 years becausel I had no place to put them. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: In addition, the linc of his work, his company provides him with inventory that he has tol keep in, inj pristine condition, and that inventory is stored in the garage and their current home. Umm, and it's no, uh, mystery here that it is a lot to try to pay off two homes at one time. All the assets need to be moved to this riverl house. Hei needs to have adequate storage for Robert Vannatta: So, I mean, we, we've already beat the word gravel down. Umm, you know, so if we're talking impervious pavers and you know, when you talk pristine condition, you know, it is one of those things you, you're not gonna drive on a dirt road and maintain pristine condition. So... the means in which hei is making money. And it's that inventory. [laughter] Tony Carabin: I didn't wanna live on a dirt road. Lucy Tuthill: Have an open it up question [1:02:10.6] up the board. That's, umm, sO I'd like to open it up to the board for further discussion. Umm, and I'll guess we'll start with Mr. Vannatta. Walter Moss: Yeah. So when I, when this came across, like I said, I,It took very much interest in it because I were very familiar with it. Umm, sol I went and pulled the act. Iwas looking through it.I read the county, you know, when it got the packet from thecounty assessment and stuff. Umm, sol, I,Iswear I was going with the, the modification to the building. 'causc I think there's footprint within thej property still that we can reduce the amount ofi impact into the, you know, the easement ori into the protected area. I just wanted to get your feel for what, you know, what was driving the size of the: structure. Because when you start breaking down the square foot of the structure, it's almost exactly the same square foot of your house. It's on that property. I mean, it's, sO basically... Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Can) I see your site plans? I didn't bring my own. Walter Moss: I have al little house. Yeah, very little house. Oh, I know exactly. [laughter] [laughter), Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Okay, sol I got. Lucy Tuthill: Hello. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Okay. All right. We got site plans sO let's I'm sorry for youi in the audience. I only have two arms. Are you gonna help me Mr. Smolnik? Matthew Smolnik: I'll share. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Thank you. You can look at hold my plans Okay, sO Mr. Moore 01/14/25 Page 20 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 suggested you take that northwest corner oft the garage. Soj just make sure we're all on the same pagel here you got yours site plans open. It's okay, they're alll looking. I'm sorry for y'all int the audience. You can't see the site plan So you take the northwest corner you're familiar with northwest corner. He simply simply suggested bringing it down and it reduces the overall pavement ini front of the structure. So we're kind ofl like doing like al little pivot thing We're eliminating the need for asphalt in the first place and that can meet the requirements um thank you. So it's basically like we're taking the structure and we're gonna just turni it down like this to meet the driveway more. And until mr Moore said that I was like why didn't our engineer suggest that in the first place and Tony Carabin: So can you hear me? So ifI were to do anything inside RPA it would have to bei in this area right here. Richard Stuart hand wrote something for me and it looked like about a 201 by 24 building Which actually would have to be where the driveway is now, which would cause me to have to move the driveway. Which he said is fine I don't have iti in writing, but that's what he told Tony Carabin: I am open to othert things, but that ist the only place legally thatl Icould do it inside... Outside the resource protected area and that's about a 241 by 20: and that'si including moving that iss something that we're absolutely amenable to. me. Sol I can't doj just a 20, 20 by 24 garage. the driveway around the back side of the... Tony Scaramozzi: So explain this pivot again, you could... Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yes, sir. Tony Scaramozzi: Still have a 40 by 50 pivot and move inside that space. Tony Scaramozzi: So that's what he suggested taking that topmost comner there and it's almost as if you're dragging it down and that pivots the entire structure. So this comner comes out al little bit closer. This corner will stay the same but this corner comes down a little bit closer to meet the driveway and you're getting rid of more of this impervious surface that stormwater runoff cannot go through. Tony Scaramozzi: And the amount of overhang would that change? Oft the RPA? Savannah Carabin Wimbush: The, the dimensions oft the building would not change but he said it would decrease the encroachment significantly and I said why didn't our engineer recommend that int the first place because you're moving away. I'mi not even tall enough you're moving away further from the RPA. Tony Scaramozzi: Isit... Will it be... Will it still encroach but less? Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yes, correct. I'm, not an engineer. I'm: sorry. Tony Scaramozzi: So you won't dol hyperbolic rotation. But um: so, sO perhaps perhaps not that's what discussion is all about. Um sol I want to surface something new discussion... You talk about the structure.. It's new that you're talking about using it for commercial purposes. $?:[1:06:54.6) Tony Scaramozzi: You right for discussion from the board, feel free to ask questions if you need 01/14/25 Page 21 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 to. Walter Moss: Sol I can appreciate the efforts that have been gone through um not being an environmental engineer. Ir really don't feel likel I have uh the knowledge or the ability to lean towards one thing or another outside oft the guidance that's in the ordinancel I,Iagain, I can appreciate it would be a wonderful: addition to the property, but I do not see unduel hardship. Um. I, Idon't see this ancillary dwelling as ai necessity. Um,I,I certainly can can appreciate all the pieces coming together and and havingi it be right for un what you need and and your personal purposes, but I you know the I would, Iv would appreciate having some and I say this but I know it would Walter Moss: That's not the intent I would appreciate having an environmental engineer say look here's the intent, here's the encroachment with the vegetation. I mean having that very, very succinctly from from somebody who who truly can speak to it from aj professional certified perspective. Um because otherwise what I'm seeing again, I can appreciate what you're trying to accomplish. It think it would bel beautifulI think it would be right fori for your property but with it, with it honestly, it's not an undue hardship in my opinion. Um. And I don't see it as a a necessary Tony Scaramozzi: Baring that I would like to recommend to the board that we: move: forward. No let me back up. I would entertain they... We would entertain, recommend a... Anyway recommendation that we allow for continued moditication and discussion with the county. The Tony Scaramozzi: Right, but uh you could discuss with them the pivot, the the reduction. You could also discuss with them, and this is viable, the trade you make by by building out yourself protection. Greater protection oft the shoreline and the property. Happens all the time, you trade X for Y and and it gets approved by someone, not me. I've never done that, but you understand what I'm talking about. Because if Mark pointed out to me thej positiveness of your approach, you know you're building out, uh... Actually, it's not this sheet isi it. Oh, here. Yep,yep. Yeah, yeah. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: I can't exactly hear what you: all are saying. Ia apologize. mean more. money out of your pocket. part of the property. So mr. Chair, it's my comments. challenge is that the county is very rule-based. Tony Scaramozzi: That's of their own accord, right? Mark Varney: Forgive me. Tony Scaramozzi: Yeah. Walter Moss: That's for discussion here. Tony Scaramozzi: Let me show you. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: So, Mr. Moss, to answer your question, this was prepared by an Walter Moss: Correct. But tol have all the pieces come together and tell me what the true impact to environmental engineer, and sO was the VRM spreadsheet and the WQIA. the intended area, I,Iwould appreciate that. [pause] 01/14/25 Page 22 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 Tony Scaramozzi: But Iactually can't tell on this. What would be new and what you are, what you plan. I see some shrubbery. I don't know ify you're adding that or, um they exist. So they, they exist today. Now you're, you're gonna plant them all, all this shrubbery around the building that Mark Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yes, sir. And that was determined by the calculations in that table and it determined that it was like 250 canopy trees, shrubs mix that we are going to have to plant as Tony Scaramozzi: Ist there, ist there any further discussion. Saying, I think there was some just talked, Mr. Varney. just talked about you will add. part oft this project. And that insert my na-native vegetation plug. challenge to your knowledge base? Walter Moss: My opinion. Tony Scaramozzi: Sol I know that the county has access to the appropriatel knowledge. So, um correct. You have access to the environmentalists, etcetera, that you need to have on board as you Matthew Smolnik: We do. And it's, Mr. Moore with DEQ, that's that's who we've been working with. And we also have on-call consultants, but we will go to! Mr. Moore with) DEQ forl his Tony Scaramozzi: And, and he's offered that you've offered, the county has offered to assist. Yes, Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Ijust wanna clarify, Mr. Moore did not come into the picture untill called him at the end of last week. It not, this isn't like a here, there, yes. Because it, it was advised by, they're like, have you engaged Mr. Moore? And I was like, no, Idon't. Who is Mr. Moore? Right. And I emailed him and just said, Hey, can you simply be present for our hearing for discuss a modification series of approach. expertise. ma'am. That's what I meant by hyperbolic. questions like this? Tony Scaramozzi: Um.. Any further questions? Discussion. Robert Vannatta: I have a procedural question, I guess where the chair, um based upon the new information and pivoting of the garage and relaying this out and it not come, you know what I mean? And I've heard it's not gonna come at a cost to the the applicant at this point. UmI,Idon't know. Do we, does this board have to render an actual decision today? Or can we simply make a recommendation back that they reengage with the county with the new information, redraw the plat and then youl know based upon the may I,I Iwould think that they could render a decision based upon the new encroachment, encroachment into the water area. Um. Where I'm asking, and, and I don't, there's no legal rep here to actually tell us, but procedurally it seems to me that there's, there's as solution ini front of us. We just gotta get the right people now in the right room and let the, let the Robert Vannatta: And then if they get to thei next point where you kow they have to come back to us where wel have to render decision' 'cause they couldn't absolutely get to that solution. I, again, it's ac question more than anything. And like I said, there's no, wel have legal's not here right now to smart people work the problem and we should be able to get right back toi it. gimme the actual advice. So I'm leaning toward... 01/14/25 Page 23 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 Tony Scaramozzi: Wel have three options ini front of us. Special acceptance. Approve or disapprove, approval forwith modifications orl would entertain a motion that the Carabins and the county work together to come to al more amenable solution. Hopefully one that the county administer uh... Yes. Right. Who approves county administrator, right? Robert Vannatta: Mm-mm. Tony Scaramozzi: But I can't telll him what to do. Matthew Smolnik: Sol Ihave a question for thel BZA.If,i if we work togetherand um try to find the middle ground, I'm always looking for how do we get to yes, but we can't. Then what? Tony Scaramozzi: Well... then what? Matthew Smolnik: There's a, there's a variance application ini front of you tonight. My question is Walter Moss: Comes back here. Tony Scaramozzi: Oh we're just.. Matthew Smolnik: Well, we. have to advertise for, I guess my, my, my question is do we advertise for, do you continue this meeting sO we don't have to... Have wel held thej public hearing? Did we come back and I do not havea a. JD after my name. It tried to call two attorneys in the last 51 minutes. Tony Scaramozzi: Okay. My point was I think that he was going to make that we continue the discussions and bring it back to us with whatever modifications seem amenable. And you don'thave to agree to that it's good. What you tell us is what are the restrictions that remain and what your response toi that restrictions and we make the decision when we come back in a month, twomonths? Matthew Smolnik: I think that'sa a, It think that's a good idea. Robert Vannatta: I would like to propose another solution. Tony Scaramozzi: Okay. Robert Vannatta: It seems like the property owners have already said, well, we are gonna change that map. We're gonna do this, we're gonna do that to make it even better. Why did they have to Tony Scaramozzi: But you can't approve modifications that are. not before you. keeping with the intent oft the overlay? And I can't speak to that. come before us?) I say we can vote now and say... Walter Moss: And the other thing is too, what is the actual environmental impact? And is that in Mark Varney: From what II heard and saw in the discussion in the presentation that's already been done. Walter Moss: Agree. But is that authoritative? 01/14/25 Page 24 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 Mark Varney: They've already gone to the experts and they've... Walter Moss: Where is that? Mark Varney: They've been doing this obviously fora a very long time. They've been working, working, working for a year and a half to make this thing work. It seems toi me they're this close to being there. It's gonna rotate the garage a little bit and don't put asphalt down and we're good to go. Imean, what else is there to do?] I would say give them, give them the authority right now. Tony Scaramozzi: The authority... Walter Moss: Make a motion. Tony Scaramozzi: To do what? Walter Moss: Make the motion. [overlapping conversation] Tony Scaramozzi: There's no modifications before us. Mark Varney: It's a zoning appeal, right? So they're appealing the zoning. And Is say, we: say, we should say, okay, you're good to go, go and do such good things that you can do. That's ini my Tony Scaramozzi: You can't change the zoning. We're not allowed, permitted, authorized to opinion... change the: zoning. That's tantamount to a change. Mark Varney: Okay. Tony Scaramozzi: So what I started to: say was what It thought your motion was and L.. Mark Varney: Yeah, clarify for me. Tony Scaramozzi: Pointed it forward towards allowing you, uh some time to make. adjustments, work with the county board as you do sO, and let's finish this discussion at the next meeting, which is 30 days, thereabouts. It could be al little longer. Mark Varney: I'm amenable to that. Savanmah Carabin Wimbush: Would it make a difference if our statement was wei now request a special exemption with the modification to the plan that the garage has pivoted where we: are making that request? No, I'm sorry. I don't mean to complicate things. My apologies. Tony Scaramozzi: No, I'm sorry. That's still a modification that's not before us. I'm asking you to come back with modifications for us to be able to make ai more, uh, in-depth discussion and decision making process that, that, that works for both sides oft this problem. The county, the rules, the: zoning and the effort that you would put forth to get us closer to the mark. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yes, sir. 01/14/25 Page 25 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 Walter Moss: Ore even, or even different options. So, hey, here's, here's what makes the county comfortable. Here's what we really wanna see. Uh, here are some middle of the road options where we're, we're really not wanting to go this path. You know, sO it's not just, uhi ify you're gonna come with changes to thej plan, umm, inevitably there's gonna be what the county would like to see because it fits nicely in the ordinances. And then of course there's gonna be absolutely what you want.. And again, I think it's al beautiful idea. Ijust don't know with thei intent oft the overlay and the modifications that you made. and the vegetation that yous intend toj put down, does that mect the overall intent of what is that, the CB LMNOP? CBA? What is it? Tony Scaramozzi: Well, we're voice oft that board now. Walter Moss: Right. So not understanding what the directives are and what the intent is, uh, yeah, I'd bei inclined fora a motion to allow it to go back, allow staff to work with the applicant to, uh, identify the experts, have a concise because... What we have, I don't know ify you guys have thisi in front of you, but Daniel Moore wrote very plainly based on what's in front oft them with staff, that, Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Staff recommends denying Daniel said he can understand why the DEQ cannot administratively approve or deny these projects either. And eveni if you all doi not make ad decision, it doesn't go, it doesn't get appealed to DEQ. We still appeal to circuit court. DEQ isj just at technical assistance body when it comes toi it. It oversees the state's code and it leaves the rest of what's not covered up to the interpretation oft the governing body that oversees the zoning ordinance. And in which case, King George decided to adopt the the CBPA under the zoning Walter Moss: And again, I,Id don't, Ic don't have the knowledge base to, to make a determination Tony Scaramozzi: Well, the point It think tol be made with such a motion is that they'll both engage, responsible, intelligent, and credited authorities to come forward with an, uh with an adjustment to Walter Moss: Yeah.I concur and I'mi ready to make a motion. I concur. And I ami ready to make a Tony Scaramozzi: Uh, is there any further discussion on the motion?. And maybe we need to write that he would deny, he recommend denying. ordinance, which made it you all's problem. because I don't know, I learned today that I was responsible fori it. the plan. motion. down what that motion is. So tol be clear... Mark Varney: Absolutely [1:23:35.6] Tony Scaramozzi: Yeah. So, uh, to be clear, thc motion, as I understood it, was to allow for continuation and, and during that period meeting continuation, meaning next meeting we'll preside. Right? But not make a decision at this point except to uh extend the meeting to the next point, right? Sor motion to continue... Umm continue. Sorry about the, umm, continue.. Robert Vannatta: 30 days. Tony Scaramozzi: To... 01/14/25 Page 26 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 [overlapping conversation] Tony Scaramozzi: Yeah, continue 30 days or so for thei next meeting, the next BZA meeting... S?:[1:24:29.8] Tony Scaramozzi: At which time, Carabin, your, you and your representatives come back with the final, uh having worked with the county as best you can and the county giving you thel knowledge they have about what's wrong and what's right. But you bring back your modification that for the next meeting. Matthew Smolnik: May I get a clarification on the specific date? Tony Scaramozzi: Well, uh we meet, uh what, what Thursday? Tuesday is this? Fourth Tuesday. Matthew Smolnik: Sol I'm gonna put something out there if you want to deal with another county staff member, put it up, put it on the 24th of, of September 'cause I'm outta state. Ify you want another, to deal with another county staff member or we can bump to a later date. Uh, but I would continue a very specific date to continue this too. Tony Scaramozzi: Are we: flexible? Tony Carabin: We're flexible. Yeah. Tony Scaramozzi: The board. All right. So... [overlapping conversation Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yeah, the applicant's also out of time during the typical fourth Tuesday of the month. So we're working on an amenable date for both parties. Tony Scaramozzi: I aml listening. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Working on it. Tony Scaramozzi: They're flexible. We're flexible. So lateri is okay. $?:[1:25:52.9] [overlapping conversation) the weeds on this. $?:[1:26:22.3] [overlapping conversation) Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Do you think that's adequate time from a staff perspective and we can schedule a meeting like our engineer, your staff, you like, find, like sit down and really get into Tony Scaramozzi: In any case, what isi it you'd like to [1:26:40.6] ? 01/14/25 Page 270f31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 Matthew Smolnik: Sol believe the county and the applicant are both okay with Wednesday, September 18th. Tony Scaramozzi: Rather than the 24th of September. Matthew Smolnik: I,Iwon't be, I'I be outta state on the 24th. There'll be another county staff member in my place. I,I want, I wanna provide continuity. I don't think they're available on the Robert Vannatta: Isi is there an option to go later than the 30 days, is I know you're trying to get to end. This is 16 months invested int this. You got, you got $10,000 put intoi it. Uh, I'm out of country, um, that week prior is the reason I'm saying that. So, yeah. So yeah, I mean there... Tony Scaramozzi: Now you find the difficulty with trying to schedule. 24th either. Robert Vannatta: So even ifi it was like a week later or two weeks later or something like that, I,I just kind of offering that up. I mean. [overlapping conversation) Tony Scaramozzi: I don't the board... window. Yeah, It understand. I know. I get... Savannah Carabin Wimbush: I really do think it has to be, it has to be 30 days, like a 30-day Matthew Smolnik: That was, gonna be my other question. Do, do they have, they're gonna have to re-advertise for the meeting, right? Or no, we're. just gonna bring this back in under the current. Okay. That's where I, because the 30 days was gonna be driven by that requirement to advertise. So that's how we can get earlier. Can you go the, even the, I mean now we're cutting two weeks or you know, can you come the week prior to the 18th? Is that an option? Tony Scaramozzi: All right. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Wei need our engineer involved [1:28:11.2] Matthew Smolnik: personally, based upon the discussion we've had,It think there's a yes outt there is where I'm at. Tony Scaramozzi: Wait, wait... Matthew Smolnik: Idon't know that you can get... Tony Scaramozzi: You can give him... Matthew Smolnik: No. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Mr. Smolnik... Matthew Smolnik: I'mi not giving them a yes. I think they can work it out at ay yes level. 01/14/25 Page 28 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appcals 08272024 Tony Scaramozzi: Right. So the motion then... The discussion still in discussion here, and it hasn't Savannah Carabin Wimbush: They were) just making sure that there wasn't anything in the bylawso outlining that continue... Like that continuance procedure for continuance. That's what Tony Scaramozzi: Before a decision is made by the BZA... We've continued before. Mark Varney: So we. just hold our, our decision on advance until the next time. been completed, might be to got to 45 day continuance. they're working on right now. Matthew Smolnik: Mr. Chairman, if, if... You said you've continued before, sO: if this board has Tony Scaramozzi: Yes. Um, well, I can find iti in the bylaw maybe, but I know we've done it. So precedence has been set. Sol think I understand the motion is to continue with a 45, is a 45-day continuance, whereby at some point prior to that period of time or on the 45th day that you bring Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Just to clarify, you said within 45 days, I'm sorry, we're trying to continued before, I'm gonna rely on your expertise. back whatever your position is. And at that point, we'll make a decision. make sure the calendar situation works. Tony Scaramozzi: To pass September. before you with a solution. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: So theorctically, you're giving us until October 1lth, 2024, to come Tony Scaramozzi: Theoretically and in practice. Savannah Carabin Wimbush: Yes, sir. Okay. Walter Moss: Not that exact date. Just before... Savannah Carabin Wimbush: No, before. Yes. By October 11th. And we will work on a, ona date within the next 241 hours or sO to make sure we're good. You all are good. Our engineer's good. Matthew Smolnik: So, so you're comfortable continuing with no specific date, Mr. Chairman? Their staff's good. Tony Scaramozzi: I am, but we haven't voted on the motion. Matthew Smolnik: Sounds good. Thank you. Tony Scaramozzi: So the motion is then to continue. Mark, this is your motion. Mark Varney: Well, sO that's the thing is, uh, is the chair making the motion or... Tony Scaramozzi: I'm expressing what I... 01/14/25 Page 29 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 Robert Vannatta: I would like to make a motion that we can continue work to 45 days or lesson this issue and come back, meet again and talk about it and make a decision at that time. That's what Iwanna move on. Anybody opposed? Tony Scaramozzi: Any discussion? Question? Okay. All those in favor, say aye. Robert Vannatta: Aye. Tony Scaramozzi: Any opposed? Motion carried. Robert Vannatta: Sory, I moved the agenda. Tony Scaramozzi: I think we have new business. Mark Varney: Just to make sure it's, it's 45 days or less, right? Tony Scaramozzi: Well, that has to be written, but he's, Mr. [1:31:45.3] is clarifying it's 45 days or less, meaning the flexibility to bring us in to make a decision is there and we'll discuss that, Mark Varney: It's just assuming, just for, just for sake of argument, if thej plaintiffs have say something int three weeks, four weeks, and they wanna come. in earlier, we're amenable to that and what's open to us. wel have to make [1:32:14.3] Robert Vanmatta: It's 45 days or less. Tony Scaramozzi: Okay. hard 45 days. Robert Vannatta: So we are by definition, flexible. Mark Varney: Okay. Wanted to: make sure that was clear. Tony Scaramozzi: And I'm gonna call that motion to carry, done. Next order of business, is old business. Is there any old business? Any new business?. Any other business? Chair will entertain a motion for adjournment. Oh, in ai minute. Oh. [chuckle] Walter Moss: Second the motion. Robert Vannatta: Make motion to adjourn. Tony Scaramozzi: Uh, motion's been made. All those in favor say aye. $?:Aye. Tony Scaramozzi: Any opposed? The motion carries. We're adjourned. And it's 8:02: my watch. 01/14/25 Page 30 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 08272024 Thank you for choosing Scribie.com Cross-check this transcript against the audio quickly and efficiently using our online Integrated Editor. Please visit the following link and click the Check & Download button to start. itps/serbic.com/fls.d6c08149db0940ePAbi24BIc6A53e208284c653 01/14/25 Page 31 of31 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 King George Board of Zoning Appeals 10022024 erran@co.smggeorge-state.yA.ts scribie Audio' Transcription,! Perfected htps/serbie.com/fl40A179952-94214:705e104b58667552672150 01/14/25 Page I of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 Tony Scaramozzi: Appeals meeting open. We will first start with the Pledge of Allegiance, followed by an invocation. Would someone volunteer for the Pledge of Allegiance? [0:00:15.9] Okay, Bob, thank you. And I'l take on the invocation. background conversation] Tony Scaramozzi: Ms. Sidehill, I don't see: minutes, sO I'm assuming that they'll be drafted at the end ofthis. You might want to send me a draft before you are done. There are some things that I wanna: make: sure are int there. Sidehill: Okay. Tony Scaramozzi: So, no approval of minutes. The public hearing is done. All business continuation from the meeting of the 27th regarding variance request case number Z2024-00196 Smolnik: Wel have Mr. Dines. Mr. Dines, do you have the, uh, the presentation? Thank you. Members of thel board. I'm Matthew Smolnik, county administrator for King George County. This is acontinuation from the August 27th meeting. So, umm, IJ just wanna let you know some oft the, the, the support staff that I have here. Umm, some direction that I was given from the, the board at the last meeting. Uh, Mr. Kenny Vaughn, our, our certified zoning official. Ms. Kelly [0:02:31.6] Lel Duc, uh, director of community development, Angela and Ryan Foroughi. Uh, two professional engineers, uh, work for the county. I have, uh, umm, Mary Stewart, law clerk, and Senator Richard Stuart, uh, our county attorney representing us. And also, uh, we have Max, uh, representing the BZA up on that. So thank you: for coming out tonight. So we dol have, uh, some new board members here that were not present at the. August 27th. So, Mr. Chairman, ify you will allow, I just got a brief, Smolnik: And additionally, uh, I did wanna say, you know, this, this is a land use issue, but II know there were some talks about, uh, environmental issues. Umm, more specifically having somebody here from DEQ. We could not get DEQ, but we do have written confirmation from them. Correspondencc. Again, this is al land use issue, but if you want to talk about environmental issues, we dol have correspondence, uh, for, for you all and for the applicant, uh, with Mr. Moore from Tony Scaramozzi: The request, that's what I'd like to see in the minutes was madej just because one oft the board members had a lot of questions about thes environmental impact side, not that we would influence the decision making because wel have rules fort that and we. know what they are. But) I did wanna give them the freedom to talk with someone in, uh, a knowledgeable subject matter expert Smolnik: Right. And we have that, we have two professional engineers here per, per what the BZA requested. So the original request, umm, this is, this is what the original request came into the county, umm, for section 5265D2 oft the King George zoning and subdivision ordinance for the construction of a 401 by 50 detached garage with a 15-foot overhang and landward 501 foot oft the RPA buffer. Total encroachment in thel RPA is 4,950 square feet on Tax Map 18B1, Parcel 13, 2.02 acres zoned A-2. Again, this was thei initial request that was, uh, presented at the, umm, uh, at the August 27th mecting. So, just al little bit of! history, back in January, uh, the applicant had applied forab building permit with the county. Uh, that application was denied due to, uh, a, an accessory requested by Mr. Dwayne Carabin. No other business to follow. uh, recap of! how we, got to, to where we are tonight, if that's okay with you. DEQ. should that, um, be required. 01/14/25 Page 2 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 structure being located int thel RPA buffer. Smolnik: The applicant applied for a variance in accordance with 5210ofthe, the King George, uh, code, which is why we: are. here. This is a variance hearing in front oft the Board of Zoning Appeals. There was a public held, uh, August 27th in this very room, and then staff was directed to hold a work session with the applicant, uh, with staff, which was done on September 17th. Several different alternatives were discussed. One was presented by the applicant, two were presented by, by the county. And we. have those, you have those in front of you. I will go over them in my presentation. And then the: applicant provided their new plan to the county on September 27th. Umm, and as I mentioned, we also have environmental advice from DEQ received October 1, uh, Smolnik: So, so this particular section oft the, the code talks about the 150, uh, 100-foot buffer. Really, you know, why do wel have this, the, thel RPA buffer, as we. know we're in' Tidewater, Virginia. Any perennial water feature, any connected, uh, you know, waterway stream soil has a 100-foot buffer, uh, to protect the Chesapeake Bay Bay. So, uh, this is the, the purpose ofa variance. So, again, we: are. here for a variance. What is thej purpose of a variance? It's to allow fora reasonable deviation from the provisions of this ordinance regulating the shape. Tony Scaramozzi: Smolnik, can you back upj just one slide please? Just wanna finish reading. Smolnik: So thej purpose of a variance, umm, umm, is to allow for reasonable deviation from the provisions of the King George ordinance regulating the shape, size, or area of, ofal lot or parcel of land, and size, height, area bulk. Orin this case highlighted the location ofal building or structure where the strict application of the ordinance would unreasonably restrict the utilization of the property. Properties currently being used as a single family dwelling with a garage int the single family dwelling. Other relief or remedy is not available. We've provide... We're going to provide you with some examples of other relief or remedy for the, uh, based on what the applicant originally proposed, and then such a need for variance would not be shared generally by other properties. So do other properties in this area share this constraint, L.e., do neighboring properties also have RPA? The answer to that is yes, they do, along with Machodoc Creek, as it'sa a lot of, of King George Smolnik: So this is a, uh, an aerial map. The, the, the property 16012 Machodoc! Drive, with, uh, the whitearrow, the, the white arrow is pointing to the approximate location ofthe proposed garage. This is a street view from the end oft the cul-de-sac looking, uh, back towards the house on the waterway. So this was the original plan that was presented, umm, that, that the public hearing was held on. And you can see that it isa a 2000-square foot garage with a, an overhang 4,950 square feet ofl land disturbance inside the RPA buffer. And I got a next couple of slides. And again, these are just a rehash, for this, I wanna get us up to speed how we got to where we are tonight. So this is the limits of the 100-foot RPA buffer. You can see the original location. And then this is the area Smolnik: This is really where we left the August 27th meeting and the board directed staff and the applicant to hold a work session. So at that work session, the applicant provided this, and this is what was provided electronically and submitted to the county staff, uh, late last week. Essentially, the, the garage, umm, I,It think it was a discussion where they just turned it al little bit. They pivoted on one of the corners, sO they reduced the amount of square footage that is inside thel RPA buffer. And it should be noted that the size of the garage remains the same. So there's still encroachment per the board. Thank you. County. outside of the RPA. 01/14/25 Page 3of41 King George Board of Zoning Appcals 10022024 into the RPA buffer with a 2000-square foot garage, uh, the 3,500 uh, square feet of land, uh, inside thel RPA bufferwould be disturbed with this alternative. So that this is what the: applicant brought to our work session. Uh, the Foroughis are, are on-call engineers. We, we had both firms share the Tony Scaramozzi: Just a minute back up. So, uh, the overhang is the area in question. Correct? CAD files. Smolnik: Anything inside the RPA is in question, sir. Tony Scaramozzi: So, uh, oh, I sec the line going through it. Smolnik: Yes. Tony Scaramozzi: Okay. Thank you. Smolnik: So, alternatives, this is a, a 1450-square foot garage, and I believe there was a discussion about pulling al boat in the garage. This garage, 1,450 square foot is 66.01 feet in depth. So you have a, an unloaded garage with a 60-foot bay, should somebody wanna pull whatever they want to in this. Umm, and this alternative has zero square feet of encroachment into the RPA buffer. This is the! larger oft the two. The other alternative that was pitched at our work session was a 990-square foot garage, also with no encroachment into the RPA bufferwith the structure itself or the driveway. And I wanna clarify with a, with aj previous, the driveway is also out of the RPA buffer. Smolnik: With both of the scenarios presented by staff, that staff is presenting as alternatives. The garage, int this case, a 1450-square foot garage and thedriveway leading up toit are 100% out of the RPA buffer. Asi is the, the smaller location here, 990 square foot. So standards for review, uh, pursuant to the code of Virginia and our, our local code, what this board is charged with in whether or not to grant a variance. So a variance should be granted if evidence shows that a strict application oft the terms oft the ordinance would unreasonably restrict the utilization of the property where the granting of variance would alleviate a hardship. And it goes on. This, this iss state code, we read this last time. So, really the, the question at hand here is, is there al hardship? Has the applicant proven a hardship that they need a garage entirely int the, uh, RPA buffer or are there alternatives that could Smolnik: Again, this, there's already a single family home with a garage ini it, that is pre-Ches Bay. It's on the property. So, they have al house with a garage. So the question the board has is the encroachment ofa a 2000-square foot garage al hardship?. And that is incumbent on the applicant to show. The countyhas proven a couple ofdifferent, has shown you a couple of different alternatives. And really, based on our, our last hearing, staff still recommends denial of this application. And if, ifthe board has it, Idon't know ifLucy has passed it out, the alternatives were also sent tol DEQ. Smolnik: They're still of the same opinion. The two alternatives outside oft the RPA where no encroachment are thej preferred methods, should this board want to talk about anything environmental. That's all Ihavel Mr. Chairman. I'lI be happy to answer any questions at the Tony Scaramozzi: Thank you. I'm going to give, uh, in ai minute the board an opportunity time to Tony Scaramozzi: Uh, say that again. be done to, you know, to help meet his needs? Mr. Moore has opined with staff. appropriate time. 01/14/25 Page 4 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 read the DEQ uh, memo. But, uh, would you mind going back one slide, two slides? Okay. Keep in mind that this sentence reads, a variance shall be granted ift the evidence shows that the strict application oft the terms of the ordinance would unreasonably restrict the utilization oft the property orthat the granting of the variance would alleviate al hardship. Ij just wanted to point that out to the board. All right, let's take, uh, say five minutes or until everybody says they're done on the uhl DEQ memo. [pause] Tony Scaramozzi: You didn't get this? Do you have another copy? A short one. Tony Scaramozzi: Ms. Sidehill, can you do me a favor, tell me what page that paragraph is on in the, uh, zoning and subdivision ordinance of2023. Sidehill: It's on page 3-12 on thel bottom right corner. [pause] Tony Scaramozzi: All right. Are we: finished reading the, uh, memo from the DEQ? background conversation] Richard Stuart: Mr. Chairman, it, it,I, and Id don't know your protocol, sO I apologize, but I'm Richard Stuart, and I represent the county. At the appropriate time, I would just like a minute to mention a couple things that Mr. Smolnik didn't highlight. When, whenever it's appropriate on Tony Scaramozzi: Uh, Mr. Stuart, senator, I'm about to open the floor for the Carabins to talk. Is Richard Stuart: Well, in fairness to them, It think they should havet the ability to respond to it because they, they have the burden under state law to prove beyond thej preponderance of evidence that they should get this. And sO I just wanted toi mention a couple of quick things that] I think are behalf of the county. what you're talking about, something that should come first? important, but I can wait, sO whenever you all deem it appropriate. Tony Scaramozzi: Mr. Carbin, I, uh, Corbin? Carbin? Dwayne Carabin: Carabin. Tony Scaramozzi: Carabin, sorry. Uh, do you mind ifI allow the senator to go, because he's got a few things that I think would be good for us tol know and weigh in as you speak. Richard Stuart: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members oft the BZA and the Carabins. Umm, Mr. Chairman, as you know, you get your authority from 15.2-2309, and in paragraph two, you have the authority to grant this variance upon application or appeal. And thisi is actually a variance, but it's gotta meet the standard of the definition of a variance in 15.2-2201. And you've gotta make certain findings that are found, umm, in 15.2-2309. And I, and I bring that to your attention, you have counsel. Sol I'mi not trying to advise the board, but I represent the county and it's important that certain things, findings are made in this because there may be an appeal to the circuit court by writ ofc certiorari, which is a review of your decision. And so I think it's important your counsel can 01/14/25 Page 5of41 King Gcorge Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 explain that further, umm, to make those findings. Richard Stuart: The, thei important thing that I'd like to bring to thel BZA's, umm, attention is that King George County's ordinance, and in fact it's derived from state law, prohibits an accessory, an accessory structure in the RPA. And one of the requirements of your ability to grant a variance isa finding that the proposed use or the variance granted is not contrary, in fact, toi the ordinance. And in this case, iti is. And Ithink you will need to look at that among the other things that Mr. Smolnik, umm, mentioned to you and I, and I've suggested to the Carabins that they get counsel in this matter when we spoke before, because I thought it was an important thing for them from the perspective of an appeal or a neighbor's objection, umm, that could end up in litigation if these findings are: not Richard Stuart: And I always view things towards an appeal a writ of certiorari before the Circuit court. Umm, and so I wanted tol highlight things, those things for you all. Umm, unfortunately, it is their burden under state law toj prove to you beyond the preponderance oft the evidence that they've met each oft those elements, umm, in order for you to grant the variance. So that'sallly wanted to properly made, umm, just as aj protection to them. mention, and thank you all. Tony Scaramozzi: Thank you. Mr. Carabin, who are your representatives? Savannah Carabin: Good evening chairman and members oft thel BZA. My name's Savannah Carabin Wimbush. I'm representing my dad, the applicant, Tony Carabin, umm, on our variance, uh, application. We also brought with us today our engineer, Casey Schooler from the Benchmark Group to also answer questions where necessary. Umm, if you go ahead and, oh, I have the button, Savannah Carabin: So we wanna have a conversation about the project site again. There is a whole lot more history, umm, Ms. Mollner, and I'm sure I don't have time to bring you up to speed on everything. Umm, but we. had, we were attempting to build within the 50: foot buffer. Awesome. Okay, perfect. Thank you. Umm, sO we've been working on this since July of 2023, trying toi find the right way to arrive at a hearing in order to, umm, be granted our request. So we wanted to, uh, draw your attention to the project site. It currently, it was cleared prior to my parents owning the property. This is technically not a functioning buffer. Umm, sO thes size and layout that we went with, we: searched for the right size and layout for my dad's needs as recommended by our engineer. Savannah Carabin: So yes, while everyone has the limits of the 100-foot buffer, as you can: see, wel have a really unique, like peninsula looking situation, which adds a 100-foot buffer all the way around our property, which really reduces that buildable, umm, area significantly. So, umm, we, uh, we took into the consideration the, umm, proposed projects that the county or the proposed structures the county gave us, and unfortunately, they're not going to work for the needs. We specifically laid out the 401 by 501 foot based on my dad, the storage needs my dad has. But it's important to note that those, umm, two proposals that were made require no stormwater management, no plantings, umm, and our proposed project is, uh, going to be better at fixing that Umm, it's also important to note that our property abuts a marshy area. buffer than the other two projects presented. Wait, I'msorry. Savannah Carabin: No, it was me and and the mic. Sorry. Tony Scaramozzi: Umm can you back up please? Tony Scaramozzi: They want to speak? 01/14/25 Page 6 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 Savannah Carabin: Yes, sir. Tony Scaramozzi: Uh,. you said that the project site photo was cleared prior to your purchase? Savannah Carabin: Yes, yes. We have not done any of that at all. It was like that. My parents haven't done anything to the property. Tony Scaramozzi: When was that picture taken? Sayannah Carabin: Uh, a few weeks before our, our public hearing. Tony Scaramozzi: So, uh, lemme ask a question to the legal perspective, because I'm assuming that that's still inside thel RPA, that area. Savannah Carabin: Yes. Tony Scaramozzi: Umm, from a legal perspective, the fact that it was purchased like that, it has no vegetation really, that qualifies. If you agree that that is the case, does that have an impact on how Max: The first factor is whether or not thel hardship was created. It think that could, could play into the board's consideration of whether or not that particular element was satisfied for the variance Tony Scaramozzi: I'mi not asking you to. judge a decision we. have not made. I've asked you to evaluate the: fact that this was a preexisting condition and it's not serving as a buffer ift that is the Max: It does not have an impact on the existence or how, uh, existence of the RPA, whether it's 50 Tony Scaramozzi: Because it's not a part ofthe, umm, undue hardship, it doesn't impact the Max: That would... Correct. That is the, that is the first finding is either, umm, unreasonable Tony Scaramozzi: Word unreasonable is vague. That means it's up to us to decide what it means. Savannah Carabin: Yes, sir. Excellent question. Iu understand what you're trying to ask. Umm, as int the site plans that were presented to you all, uh, from us, there is significant stormwater management and, umm, plantings that would go into restoring this, like the area into ai functioning buffer. And I'm getting into Casey's technical language here, but we really wanted to note that on our new plans. Umm, Casey did a fantastic, job.) He, this revision from the last site plans that you sawi is a 40.4% reductioni in the, int the total proposed impervious surface inside thata 100-foot RPA Sayamnah Carabin: So you asked us to go back, figure out how can we can reduce that we: should be considering that piece, that particular piece oft this land? request by this applicant. case. And if so, does that have an impact on how we should evaluate this? foot landward or seaward or the applicability of the overlay district. hardship. restriction or alleviation ofa hardship. All right. Please continue. buffer. 01/14/25 Page 7of41 King Gcorge Board ofZoning Appcals 10022024 encroachment and we did by 40%. So we wanted it toi really draw attention to that. Umm, I understand this is not an environmental concern thing; however, it is important to note that, uh, I've already, umm, contracted with a, uh, a native vegetation provider. We're not just gonna stick random shrubs and trees and whatnot. It's gonna be a, ai fully functioning buffer when we are done with it, with those proper storm water mitigation and encroaching in that RPA because we would be doingt that, that's why wel have thet things like the flow well, and I'm gonna call on Casey to come up Casey Schooler: Hi, how are y'all doing tonight? Umm, SO my name's Casey Schooler. Uh,Iwork for the Benchmark Group. Umm, and we were hired toj put this plan together, uh, for them to show the proposed construction oft the garage that they want to do. Umm, sO as far as the, umm, the stormwater side ofthings that I'I highlight, II know that, uh, Idunnoi if there's a way to kind ofzoom in or not on the actual area oft the, oh, can I point toi it? Does that work? Sorry about that. Yeah, that's al little, okay. That'll work. So, umm, int the top left corner of the plan here, that restoration table, uh, is straight out ofDEQs handbook. Umm, and essentially what, how that reads and sum things up is for every 400 square foot of thel buffer that you disturb, umm, you know, you have one canopy tree, two understory trees, and three small shrubs that you must replace back. Casey Schooler: Umm, and sO essentially what we've done. is we've taken the total amount of square footage that we: are disturbing, which is that 3,5001 number shown on this plan. Umm, and that is what that mitigation calculation to the right of the table is all that reads where, umm, that 3,500 per every 400: square foot, we provided the necessary amount of plantings to go back inside of the 100-foot buffer. Umm, that is from a mitigation standpoint. What we've also done is done some stormwater management, whereas the, umm, on the, that would be the south corner of the garage right next to the driveway, you'll notice a small circle where I call that out as a flow well, that flow well, the overall, umm, concept behind it is it is designed to capture storm water offt the rooftop of this structure, umm, and filter it naturally through the ground, through, you know, rock and things oft that nature to where that stormwater won't be leaving this garage untreated. Casey Schooler: Umm, it will be going through downspouts at each corner oft the garage and be piped underground to this below ground, umm, uh, flow well if you will, and that will bel located outside of thel buffer as well. So, umm, and thati is the, uh, that's the: storm water side of things that I was wanting toj present to you guys. Umm, and, and like, uh, Savannah had also touched on is that the, umm, as this, this structure is still inside of the 100-foot RPA buffer,you know, these plantings and stuffi is in our attempt to try to1 negate the impacts that we are making inside oft the buffert to plant back some natural native vegetation to, uh, try tol help restore, umm, enough to counteract and explain some of the stormwater management techniques. what we're doing, what they're proposing to do. Tony Scaramozzi: Where does this table come: from again? Casey Schooler: Uh, it's out of, umm, trying to remember the exact, the, the manual is the DEQ's riparian buffer, uh, and mitigation, umm, standards, I believe. It can bei found on their website. Tony Scaramozzi: So in my understanding and, and help me from the legal side, are, you saying that this table indicates that for every 100 foot of encroachment you can provide a means of Casey Schooler: Yeah, so the, the intent behind this, umm, and of course it's labeled as restoration establishment. Umm, thei intent behind this table was that for whetheri it is al byride or there'sa variance, whatever the case may be, fori impacts inside of the buffer, you know, of course in most judicating the challenge? 01/14/25 Page 8 of41 King George Board ofz Zoning Appeals 10022024 cases you're dealing with a, a vegetated buffer, I'm sorry, umm, that has trees and functioning shrubs and natural filtration. Well, obviously you would take those trees out once the site got cleared for your building. Umm, and this table is what you would use to as a scale factor ofhow much you need to plant back. Tony Scaramozzi: Plant back into the area that you disturb. Casey Schooler: Exactly, yes sir. Yes sir. Within it, within it. Tony Scaramozzi: Still leaving you, this is not sort ofa a trade for space where you are, uh, reducing the challenged area by adding the right type of vegetation in accordance with, uh, DEQ to conserve Casey Schooler: Yes sir. Yes, ycs. And, and yes in a nutshell is that, umm, you know, it's not, it's not, Ithink the intent behind this was it wasn't a one for one trade. Like, hey, Itook this tree down, I'm gonna plant at tree back. Obviously, you plant it, it's nowhere near the mature size that that other tree was. So that is why for, you know, that's whyi it's one tree, two other understory trees and shrubs pera 400 square foot area. Umm, now in, in my experience with this chart, al lot oft times this chart is being used for, umm, for Pre-Ches Bay lots for let's just say new construction. Umm, you know, if,if,ifsomebody came to me with a property that was a Pre-Ches Bay lot where the buffer restricted their buildable area, umm, this chart would be used to come up with a calculation ofhow much vegetation would be needed to bej planted to try to help restore thel buffer... Oh sorry, as much that area. as possible. Tony Scaramozzi: To the board, are there other questions you have gentlemen? Casey Schooler: Uh, there is one other thing I'd like to add. Umm, I dunno if, ifit would be shown on here, but the, uh, umm, so this, this very last page of our plan, this, uh, spreadsheet you: see on the left that is, that is DEQS Virginia runoff reduction method spreadsheet. That's like the, umm, stormwater Bible, ify you will. And, you know, essentially what we've done is you take in consideration the type of soils on the property, how much impervious cover you're putting down, how much you're disturbing the whole nine yards, and umm, punching in those areas. And then the, Casey Schooler: And essentially that, uh, green number that is about midway through the spreadsheet shows that this site as a whole would meet stormwater requirements for DEQ based on the conditions and the current conditions and the proposed conditions. Thank you. Right and as Savannah had noted that in most cases the VRRM is, is required on, umm, by, by the county for Tony Scaramozzi: Is there any discussion, questions from the board? I have a question for legal. It'sal little hard to follow. Umm, so in the end, is it true from what we're hearing that he may be improving the outcome inside that area, but the outcome is still that he's across the RPA line? I'm uh, also implementing that flow well that I had spoke about prior. application services or for any, any construction inside of the buffer. sorry, Mark. Casey Schooler: Oh would you like me to attest to that? Mark Varney: You were talking, uh, that, uh, this particular plan is 40% better than the original plan. 01/14/25 Page 9 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appcals 10022024 Casey Schooler: Yes, sir. Yes Sir. Yeah. And the, and the intent behind this restoration table, umm, asIstated before, it's not necessarily a one-to-one. Umm, and as fara as the stormwater goes, you know, I could get into the details of all oft that stuff, but essentially, you know, based on what we're putting on the ground and what we're approaching inside oft the buffer, that's what all oft the mitigation and stormwater is based on to follow DEQS guidelines for scenarios such as this. Max:I can, I can clarify Mr. Chairmanl on, on the applicability of the mitigation guidelines, which are, uh, it's a matter of policy established by DEQ, what they believe is an appropriate, umm, mitigation fori impacts to the landward 50 foot oft thel RPA those those are: not legal requirements. Umm, and they aren't specific to the board's decision on a variance application, but this board does have the authority to: impose conditions on any variance that it issues. Umm, and that's where the mitigation usually comes into play, is a, a variance is, you know, deserving and issued, but we're gonna condition that X amount ofi mitigation. The applicant int this case has proposed a certain level ofmitigation as part of their development plan, umm, and their application. But that's where the, the mitigation comes into play with respect to, umm, an exception to, to Chess Bay in this case, which, umm, is issued as a variance from the overlay district. Tony Scaramozzi: Thank you. Go ahead. No, I can't... Just, just speak freely. [background conversation) Tony Scaramozzi: I prefer that you open the mic SO everyone can hear your question. Mark Varney: Soj perhaps I misunderstood earlier. Uh, so thisi is a 40% one. Are there two other Casey Schooler: Uh, I think that the two other that you were talking about were the two options things that we're going to see or is this pretty much it? that, umm, the county had presented. Mark Varney:Isee. Casey Schooler: Uh, prior that showed this smaller building out completely outside of the buffer. Mark Varney: Okay. Thanks for the clarification. Casey Schooler: Yeah. This is just a revision to the prior plan that they submitted or was submitted Tony Scaramozzi: Oh, in, in summary, ifI have this right, the revision includes a little bit of change to the positioning of the building, uh, more, uh, address ofthe RPA area to improve that and Casey Schooler: Uh, the, the material of the driveway, uh, the Carabins can address tol I,I I'mi not sure what material they wanted to, umm, install, Umm, but is that your question regarding the Tony Scaramozzi: Uh thank you. Yep. I guess we'll start asking you some questions. Ify you want Tony Scaramozzi: Umm, sO I'l open that up again to the board to ask. I'll probably have to... on the prior meeting. not include concrete or blacktop, whether it was a... driveway as far as the... it,you want it to be forced. 01/14/25 Page 10of41 King Gcorge Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 Savannah Carabin: Okay. [background conversation] Tony Scaramozzi: It looks to me looking at these two alternatives that actually you could have gotten the space you werc looking for but differently. Why was that not pursued bys you? Savannah Carabin: So... Tony Scaramozzi: And stayed outside the RPA. Savannah Carabin: Mm-hmm, sO the, as I mentioned earlier, the, uh, dimensions of the garage as proposed were determined, umm, by our engineer, a suggestion by our engineer to us for what we needed. And the, if you look at the other two options, they're kind ofl like obscure in length and it would really significantly reduce the amount of maneuverability that we would have with the Mark Varney: Yeah. From what I'm reading, if you don't mind me interrupting, umm, the original, uh, thing that they want is, uh, 1500 square feet and these two other options were down to 1450 square feet and 990: square feet. Sot those other options that were proposed, uh, to get to 100 percent outta the buffer, they have to shrink the size of the garage. AmI I reading that correctly? structure itself. Savannah Carabin: Yes, sir. Trische Mollner: Wasi it possible to add to the garage. in the house and then do one of the garages toadd onto the garage; however, it's still not going to meet the space requirements. That's really, that was... umm... Savannah Carabin: [0:42:56.2] Trische Mollner: No, no... Savannah Carabin: Sorry. was add al little clarification on that. So there, there is room Trische Mollner: I'm saying to do both to add to the garage at the house and then do one oft the smaller ones. And then I saw ai nifty thing down in Florida where they're doing these garages where people put three cars in one: slot, like they stack' 'emi three, they're, they're really deep. Savannah Carabin: It think thei issue here is contiguous space being needed. Trische Mollner: Yeah, I understand. But like maybe we need to get creative and do a double. Trische Mollner: Find your own, you know,, just offering a suggestion like we can't find a Tony Scaramozzi: Uh, might be. compromise. Tony Scaramozzi: There may... 01/14/25 Page 11 of41 King George Board of Zoning Appcals 10022024 Trische Mollner: I understand. once you start building ai new. Trische Mollner: I didn't look. Tony Scaramozzi: Still be legal issues with respect to thel RPA by adding even onto the existing dwelling. Don't you now have to meet standards? Can't, you don't carry forward your grandfather Tony Scaramozzi: So that, that was not something. Trische Mollner: I,I didn't look, Ijust... Tony Scaramozzi: Oh, it's, it's okay. Umm. Savannah Carabin: We appreciate your, your, your thoughts on trying to meet in the middle. That's what we've been trying to do from the very beginning, sO thank you. Trische Molner: Thinking outside thel box. Savannah Carabin: Yes ma'am. Robert Vannatta: Yeah. And Iknow I asked this last time, II know the answer, umm, but going smaller is really not an option based upon the equipment and storage you're looking for, right? Robert Vannatta: But it's pretty much, and either it's the plan or continue: fighting on, right? Savannah Carabin: No sir. Dwayne Carabin: Correct. Correct. Mark Varney: It seems to me, uh, Tony, umm, everything seems to go around this 40% reduction is what the best that they can come up with satisfy their needs. Now these other ones that were smaller garages proposed by whoever, I dunno, they're nothing proposed by you, is that correct? Savannah Carabin: I'm sorry, I can't hear you sir. Mark Varney: I'm sonry. These two other ones that shows the smaller garages, these are not your plans, is that correct? Savannah Carabin: That's correct. Mark Varney: Okay. Thank you. ar rectangle 50 feet by 40 feet. Savannah Carabin: Yes sir. Tony Scaramozzi: Just my question has to do with more about the structural perspective. You have Tony Scaramozzi: Total, right? 15 feet overhang meaning sort of a roof but not structure. 01/14/25 Page 12of41 King Gcorge Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 Savannah Carabin: Correct. Tony Scaramozzi: What... Looking at sheet one of one of the, uh, county's first proposal, or Icould even look at the other, the whole point of where I'm looking is, uh, you need, oh, you have in the county's offer for alternative, there's this, it says EX, is that existing? Please. I'mj just, I'm, where I'm headed is you have space that you can still use and it'll still be outside the RPA. Umm, oh yeah. So I'm looking at the larger version, 1450. AndI,I get that what you're trying to doi is move maybe one thing in and another thing in side by side. And that's al lot harder ifit'st not in a rectangle: form. But, umm, but there is space. There is space. And what I really don't understand is why that was not a third option, whetheri it came from the county or from you that you used up the space that remain between what exist, in the alternative one and the RPA. That won't work? Dwayne Carabin: Not to my needs sir. Tony Scaramozzi: Go ahead, Mark. It's ai reduction. Mark Varney: Well, it's,) you know, 1450 square feet versus... the totality of the rectangle. It just won't be ai rectangle. Mark Varney: It says on the plan 1450 square feet. Tony Scaramozzi: No, it wouldn't be 1450. It'd be greater than 1450. Ini fact, it would be very near Tony Scaramozzi: Yes, I know, but Mark, when I'm... Here, come here, I'I show you. I'I send it to you. Savannah Carabin: There's also no lien to on the proposed plans. Dwayne Carabin: [0:48:34.9] park anything next to: al boat. Tony Scaramozzi: At that end. Dwayne Carabin: [0:48:58.3] and the problem I have with that right there is the width, 20 feet wide allows you toy pretty much park al boat on a trailer and that's it. At 20 feet wide. You can't 44-foot long boat too right? Correct. Robert Vannatta: Ify you take a 44-foot long boat, like you said, basically you'll back it, if you take that wrong, you back iti int that new driveway and it, it basically consumes that entire length of the, we got about 15 feet by 25 feet of usable space for anything else. Dwayne Carabin: Correct. Tony Scaramozzi: Right. Robert Vannatta: Basically the problem is with the way it is laid out. Tony Scaramozzi: What if that was expanded out to the yellow? Mark Varney: I mean [0:49:26.6] not squared off. I mean have them build walls like this. 01/14/25 Page 13 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 What you're saying? Robert Vannatta: Essentially. Are we stuck with square buildings? Tony Scaramozzi: That's sort oft the question. Robert Vannatta: Architectural design. Dwayne Carabin: That's how the builders like to build them. Robert Vannatta: I1 know. Dwayne Carabin: Of course it would be a whole new proposed plan for me to get somebody to do ab building such as that. My issue is the 20 feet wide. Ijust, that space is just not enough width. Savannah Carabin: And no overhang. Dwayne Carabin: And no overhang. So my question to you, sir, is at thel last meeting, I thought we were coming in to this meeting showing. you that we were willing to work with the county and reduce the amount that's in thel RPA a little bit. We did 40%. I'm willing to doj pavers, anything it takes to go with the building that I originally asked for. So that's what we focused everything on, not this. The county doesn't seem like they bent at all on this. All they're giving me is not in the RPA. So my question is, is it as absolute no for thel RPA, not one foot, one. inch? Savammah Carabin: So that's the purpose of requesting the variance and, and explaining the Tony Scaramozzi: In the county's defense... I mean, that's what you're looking at. Here's thel RPA, Savannah Carabin: Right. And because the county can't approve aj project like that, that's why we're requesting a variance. But to his point, uh, it was our understanding that you all directed us to work with the county to reduce the encroachment, reduce the amount of impervious surface, and we hardship that we have on the topography oft thel lot. you're ini it or you're out. came back with that 40% reduction. Robert Vannatta: [0:51:30.2] Savannah Carabin: Yes. Robert Vannatta: [0:51:35.0] Dwayne Carabin: I, I'm doing nothing but trying to improve my lot. I want something that's aesthetically pleasing SO that my neighbors are not unhappy with me. I've conversed with both of Mark Varney: It seems, seems to me that, umm, you had a very good point al little while ago, although the size of the garage, because it's 40% of... The size that you're proposing is a 40% reduction, but that doesn't take into account the extra shrubbery and all of those things that you're doing. That adds onto that percentage right? Soi it's not really 40%1 reduction, it's more than that. them. They're on my side. I don't know what else I can do. 01/14/25 Page 14 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 Dwayne Carabin: Correct. Robert Vannatta: I think what the attorney needs toj probably tell us is that all that shrubbery and flow well are nice. That's, it's al land use issue versus an environmental issue. All these things add to the environmental can help us offset in our minds, you know, just basically there, but it's not really Max: Yes. That, that is correct, That the amount of, umm, plantings and mitigation aren't part of the Walter Moss: And Mr. Chair, Ij just wanna point out the county has something to say,It think. Tony Scaramozzi: II know I wasn't ready. I'm, I'm looking for something I thought I saw int the Savannah Carabin: Yeah, we, we. left it on thej plans not stating whether it was asphalt or pavers. So we could have that conversation. Because if you go and I'm sorry, can you go back to our Savannah Carabin: Permeable pavers. Excuse: me. Permeable pavers. Sorry. Umm, SO if you) look at where the, like the proposed additional, like I'm not, I'm not an engineer so please excuse my technical terms here, but that shaded gray area, only a sliver, near the overhang is actually encroaching in that 1001 foot RPA. So we, we can do like asphalt and permeable pavers. Would you be amenable to the whole thing being a permeable paver?) Is a conversation we were willing to have. Savannah Carabin: I mean this has one, but it doesi't, I don't think it, it, it's very, very faint. But part oft the legal determination, I assume, with an assumption. technical test for the grant of a variance under the county's zoning overlay. DEQ perspective. It thought I saw it there, but surface. is asphalt. presentation please? Tony Scaramozzi: Somebody have aj pointer. this could work. That's driveway. Tony Scaramozzi: Yeah. Savannah Carabin: That's driveway. Like the asphalt. Yeah, asphalt wise. And I understand the thought process here about the mitigation and offsetting it. I think it's still important to know what the purpose of 100-foot RPA buffer is, and that is to filtern nitrogen and phosphorous from storm water runoff. That's the sole existence of the RPA buffer. [background conversation) Tony Scaramozzi: Umm, Ithink we: need al little openness here. You want to use the structure fora boat and some other things and they can't be up against the boat. Correct? Sidehill: There's not enough width. Tony Scaramozzi: Well, I'm actually looking at your proposal. Dwayne Carabin: Oh. Tony Scaramozzi: Umm, there'sad drive...I In really should have brought my pointer... 01/14/25 Page 15of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 Savannah Carabin: Do you want me to bring you this one? Tony Scaramozzi: Oh, if you can see it. Thank you. That was easy. Umm, do you: see the area between your garage and what looks toi me like ad driveway? Is the existing driveway... Isit preexisting the driveway?Ia apologize ifI I'm going beyond where the questions I should ask, but why not] just use that space for the garage? Savannah Carabin: Oh, Casey can answer. Casey got it. [background conversation] Casey Schooler: So, umm, you guys hear me? S?: Yeah. Casey Schooler: So the, the reason that the garage cannot come: forward anymore is this linc that runs right throughl here that is labeled 351 BRL, that stands for Building Restriction Line. And that's, that's a: zoning building setback requirement. Umm, whereas, you know, fora any, any structure that's built cannot be any closer than 35 feet to the edge of the right of way. Tony Scaramozzi: Unless you're granted a variance. Casey Schooler: Unless you're granted a variance. Yes, sir. Uh, and, and in our, in our situation moving the garage anymore this way, umm, wei run in there is another issue that poses is that now we're getting closer to the existing driveway and we only have 191 feet to the property line. So moving the garage, it may be able to bes slid ai few feet, umm, but essentially, it was placed where it was: sO that they could still have vehicular access through and, and out of the property without, umm, being too close to that corner of the garage. Umm, and, and obviously if we took the: same thing and we were to rotate the entire building down more, umm, we're still not getting much more outside of the buffer. Umm, sO this, this layout here is taking the size of the structure and trying to get it as far outside oft the buffer as we possibly could. Still meeting county building setback requirements, umm, and still having the, umm, reasonable use of this existing driveway. Taking that Tony Scaramozzi: Does the laser work now? Umm, I haven't forgotten you Mr. Smolnik. I really haven't. Still don't see: anything. Oh, okay. Alright. Which button?" The red button. Alright. You saw it? Alright. Here's an area, and I see this line. This is ai fairly sizeable area that you could draw a line across and come back up and you'd capture quite al lot ofs space. And your issue would then be more along the lines of minimizing the, uh, overhang into the RPA that I see upi in upper left and a variance across the other dash line. So that, that structure would not meet your needs. That sort of, uh, structure. I'm not saying we don't even approve that. I'm just saying would that structure meet or Casey Schooler: And, and, and so. just to clarify, you were, you were attestant of changing the shape oft this structure shown to, to something that would fit inside of, of, of this area. Is that Tony Scaramozzi: Inclusive. Yes. Sol bring it down. Bring the, the wall down, up, over. Okay. Do you see where it says proposed additional driveway, there's an arrow. That holds space. Couldn't you put your building across that way and then essentially make it almost rectangular going back in, in consideration as well. not meet your needs? allusion? 01/14/25 Page 16of41 King Gcorge Board ofz Zoning Appeals 10022024 back up without, without.. Boy, I don't think we can get it out oft thel RPA [1:02:11.4] Tony Scaramozzi: Hello. Hello. So what you were saying is you're loud enough, but now you're louder. Uh, it would, legally, it'sj just, it'sj just easier because this comes with sO much weight. We know why thel RPAS are there. It's protection, right? For the whole county, for all of us. Fort the commons. This is the commons. This is for all to use. Why not just turn as much as you can tol bring the building here? Right? Go up this way, go up this way. You almost have a rectangle and it's Casey Schooler: Some of the other options... I'm sorry. Umm, that would be kind of some of the options and sizes that the county had presented. And It think that's where, uh, Mr. Carabin had, had alluded to the, the 201 feet and width, umm, on his end of not not wanting that. Tony Scaramozzi: Umm, and let me get to where you are. Here's why. What ist this length? almost the same size. Why was that not considered? Smolnik: 401 feet. Tony Scaramozzi: 401 feet. T'm, I'mi indicating that if you pulled this down, you still have 401 feet. It'sj just not at the same place. Which part? But much less. [background conversation] Smolnik an opportunity to speak. Tony Scaramozzi: Alright, now we'll discuss it with the board. Uh, actually we'll give, uh, Mr. Richard Stuart: He, he deferred to me, Mr. Chairman, if that's okay. Smolnik, why was that not even considered in your alternative? Tony Scaramozzi: But I just want to say one more thing then, uh, let me ask the question Mr. Smolnik: Sir, our, our, the... From the county, we are looking to avoid any encroachment in the RPA ini its entirety. So those were why, that's why I had two professional engineers with stamps in Virginia who are held accountable for everything that they do and say, draw up two proposals that are 100% out oft thel RPA. That is why they were considered sir. Tony Scaramozzi: Fair and adequate. Thank you. Mr. Stuart. Richard Stuart: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, and just to finish up, this is one oft those times where you hate tol have to tell people what the law is. Carabins are really nice folks. Wei met with them. We talked to them, we. looked at options, we explained things and it's just, these are the days where your job is hard. But that's what the law is in' Virginia and we: alll have to live by the same laws. And the fact oft the matter is, Mr. Chairman, members of the board, ify you granted this variance, you'd have to doi it for every single person in King George County on the river. It, it, it's just what you would have to do. And I think that probably they could all be appealed and be overturned int the circuit court. And, and that really is the crux of this thing. Richard Stuart: At the end ofthe day, buffer, buffer mitigation's a wonderful thing. And I hope they doi it. I hope they decide to plant that bare ground. I don't know who cleared it like that. They bought it that way, but they're gonna have erosion problems ift they don't plant it anyway, quite frankly. But at the end oft the day, they have not addressed any oft the criteria which you have to 01/14/25 Page 17 of41 King George Board ofz Zoning Appeals 10022024 address and prove to this board beyond the preponderance of the evidence in order for you to grant av variance. And there are: five or six things that they've got to convince you of and produce factual Tony Scaramozzi: Sol I thought that I had read in here that it doesn't necessarily, no decision here necessarily conveys directly to any other neighbor. They have to come in and make the same arguments against what might be the same board. Might not be the same board. Richard Stuart: It would be, and again, TI let your counsel advise you, but it, this board would be hard pressed given the same circumstances because they haven't shown that this is peculiar to this property. They haven't shown al hardship, they haven't shown any of those things, umm, for you to turn down others when you gave it to them. But again, you, you need to ask your counsel those evidence to show it. And I'mj just afraid they haven't addressed any oft those. questions. I'm very confident in my opinion in this. Robert Vannatta: [1:08:30.2] Ithink that's what Mr. Stuart's leaning towards is, if, if we were to set, you know, if the decision is to go forward, approve it, then we're setting aj precedence where as long as the other people come in, they have similar type guidance of RPA and stuff, then it's more or less al handed decision to them, You know, it's more, it kind of becomes check in the box per se. And sO that was one oft the considerations I was trying to get to at the last meeting as well. Tony Scaramozzi: That's a boat that they have to row upstream. Robert Vannatta: Well, it makes it easier on the next person than it was on the first person. Tony Scaramozzi: It may or may not. It's gonna come down to this whole question of reasonableness, right? But, uh, we can't, we can't stretch reasonableness, whether we define it or not, beyond reasonable, right? We, we have to stay within some confine. And what we're seeking is aconfine that will work both for you and thel Board of Zoning Appeals, right? A variance request, that's what you're requesting. It would still be a variance request, but it would be far less impact. And if you're making these improvements, you still have a viable argument to someone, not me, to someone who would appeal our decision, which would not be made unless we thought it was an actual reasonable accommodation or variance request, ai reasonable thing to do that could be, uh, met by the state: satisfactory, not been on the board, uh, planning board for 12 years I was on it. Tony Scaramozzi: Key note, going before the state. When you have an argument and someone says, well, how was the decision made? Wel had references, we. had the comprehensive plan, we base our decisions on the comprehensive plan. The state then looks at that and says, was that logical? Was that reasonable? 95%, according to both times that I went to the court said the state will, uh, votei in the, in the county's favor. Now, I'm not guessing at this game, but I am guessing that you could do more to reach us. That's really where I'm at. And I don't, you know,you did go far. The 40% is huge, but, uh, ai number have made it clear that that's not a decision point, although itis not unprecedented that trades are made for space. Isn't that correct? Trades are made for space Max: Generally that, umm, comes into play. It can come into play in the context of mitigation, umm, through conservation easements being dedicated in other areas. But, umm, in general, that, umm, applies more when, when you're talking about, umm, open space requirements within the zoning ordinance, not necessarily resource protection areas, but it does happen here. into, uh, protected areas. 01/14/25 Page 18 of41 King Gcorge Board ofz Zoning Appeals 10022024 Tony Scaramozzi: You had al building when you were adding ground back that was going away underneath that building, right?] In your original plan, you told us about that, whether it was rip Savannah Carabin: I don't quite understand the question. Can you repeat that please? Are, are you wrap or whatever you were... referencing the living shoreline project? Tony Scaramozzi: Yes. understand your question. Tony Scaramozzi: Go ahead. Savannah Carabin: And it's not a requirement oft thej project, but it... Oh, I'm sorry. I guess I don't Savannah Carabin: No, I wanna answer your question. Dwayne Carabin: It think I know the answer. It is not under the building, it's on the shoreline. You were asking about an erosion on the building. It's not at the building, it's at the shoreline. That's Tony Scaramozzi: Where there's no land, there's no RPA, correct? They're kind of, it sounds to me like they're kind ofa adding outward from the land to reclaim what was there before, the erosion, you know, protecting against the current erosion, adding back and protecting against further erosion. what we were discussing at the last meeting. Max: As, as part of this? Tony Scaramozzi: No, their original. He just described. Max: A living shoreline project as part ofa.... And I don't know if that's part of the, a wetlands Savannah Carabin: It's aj joint permit application. And we mentioned the living shoreline pro, pro, like project to further like prove that we are extremely serious about proper mitigation and the buffer performing. Soi it was kinda like not only are wej just doing the stormwater mitigation on the garage because we. have to, but here are additional measures that we're doing on the property because we want to. Soi it was a conversation had, and we were. advised to mention doing the living shoreline project. Umm, and Mr. Scaramozzi, you dol have a point, we were advised by... It'sa completely separate engineer that does these types of projects. In theory, the shoreline can be moved back with al living shoreline project because it will: relocate that buffer, but that area is marsh. So it's, it more than likely will not move the buffer in that particular area. It's gonna move approval ori ifit's part ofs some other... the buffer closer to thel house and where the dock is. Tony Scaramozzi: Key words are, remove the buffer. Savannah Carabin: Not remove, sir, the bufferwill always be 100 foot. It'sai matter of, of adjusting the buffer! because of that shoreline. We, I mean the shoreline project... Tony Scaramozzi: Bufferwilll be: reduced near the garage. Dwayne Carabin: No sir. That's marsh. No, sir. 01/14/25 Page 19 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 Tony Scaramozzi: Alright. It'sa, uh, we, we have to figure out what we think is reasonable. Let me ask this. Umm, are either, are there adjustments to either oft the, um, county's proposals that you Dwayne Carabin: Ifl'mi not allowed to bei in thel RPA? No. And the only reason for that is the would find satisfactory? width. Tony Scaramozzi: The what? Dwayne Carabin: The width. 10 feet would help tremendously. But that would be in the RPA. So again, I asked what we: needed to do, I was told reduce the amount in the RPA. That's where we're at now. Ifs somebody would come to me, the county, the board, somebody and say, here is something that we can work with. We're bending al little bit. You're bending a little bit, it'll suit your needs. That would've been fine. But I've had no cooperation whatsoever on even somebody coming out and taking a look. Tony Scaramozzi: That's not there. Savanmah Carabin: [1:16:28.0] Dwayne Carabin: Okay. Tony Scaramozzi: They, they know where they reside. Tony Scaramozzi: They reside outside the RPA. Dwayne Carabin: Understood. Dwayne Carabin: Got you. Tony Scaramozzi: Actually they're out outside the RPA and the BRL. Um, I was just saying from Savannah Carabin: We weren't aware of that even being an option. Uh, we're doing... Tony Scaramozzi: Well, I didn't say it was an option, I said it is something that we could consider. Tony Scaramozzi: But that's a board question, it's not my... It's not something I can answer. our perspective, the BRL. might be easier to contend with. Savannah Carabin: Okay. [background conversation) [background conversation) Tony Scaramozzi: Explain what you want and why. The lawyer included. Tony Scaramozzi: So what's being asked is if we can remove ourselves temporarily and discuss with the lawyer some of our questions and get better answers to come back tos you with.I,Iand I 01/14/25 Page 20 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 get that because I'm, I'm on a great space here, just even suggesting that you do something and it still crosses the line. Right? Why would I ask you to do that? That's right. Dwayne Carabin: That's, that's all I'm asking. S?: Put another drawing. Tony Scaramozzi: So, um, Max. Max: This, yeah. This board is entitled to enteri into closed meeting for advice of counsel on specific legal matters. Umm, I can provide you the, the form ofa motion to accomplish that. Umm, you know, it wouldn't be for the discussion oft this, the substance of this case or this request necessarily, but I can provide you with guidance on the... Tony Scaramozzi: Ithink you did. Max: Did related, um... Tony Scaramozzi: Didn't someone... Max: I am sure thatIdo. Tony Scaramozzi: Would someone on the board be willing to make a motion along the lines of Max: Well, we're gonna, it's gonna have to be, um, a little more specific than that, Mr. Chairman. Walter Moss: Mr. Chairman, ifwe, we: finished with, uh, the comment portion of the discussion, sO Tony Scaramozzi: It think it would help us when we move into closed session to understand what you're willing to do to get what you need done and still get as close as possible what the county would require, minimizing the request variance impact that right now it's, it's very large. It's 1450 what's being expressed by the attorey? we can move to closing that and having board discussion. feet. I get their problem, I get the county's problem. Dwayne Carabin: What are my options? I,I... Tony Scaramozzi: Alright. So that's what we'll figure out that we can express to you legally as what your options are. Dwayne Carabin: That's all I've ever: asked. Tony Scaramozzi: And that's the kind of discussion we wanna have. So. Trische Mollner: Okay. I move that the Board of... Tony Scaramozzi: Mic. Trische Mollner: Zoning Appcals enteri into a closed meeting for consultation with legal counsel retained by the Board of Zoning Appeals regarding specific legal mat, legal matters requiring the 01/14/25 Page 21 of4 41 King George Board ofZoning Appcals 10022024 provision ofl legal advice by such counsel relating to statutory authority, state regulations, zoning ordinance requirements, variances and pending application in accordance with Virginia Code Section 2.1-3711a8. Richard Stuart: Chairman, and I apologize, I don't wanna second... Tony Scaramozzi: Is there a second? Richard Stuart: I don't wanna second guess your counsel, but what is the legal matter? Tony Scaramozzi: Is there a second? No. Okay. Was there a second? matter is that, that you all could go into closed session for, but... Richard Stuart: Chairman? I,Ijust would point out to the board. 1,1 don't know what the legal Tony Scaramozzi: We won't know eitheruntil we go into closed session. What we wanna be sure, senator, is that we don't make any recommendations. We don't propose anything that is outside the binds of the law. Richard Stuart: Ij just don't want you to violate FOIA, Mr. Chairman, Tony Scaramozzi: Oh, good point. Yeah, good point. Um, the... Tony Scaramozzi: And ini fact, I'd rather speak out here. Right. Walter Moss: Have to finish with the motion. circumstances, Ithink. Is that true? Richard Stuart: The county attomey can be assured that I'll not allow the board to violate FOIA. Tony Scaramozzi: That'sa good point too. But FOIA can be fed appropriately even under those Max: Absolutely. Any public body has the ability to goi into closed meeting on a proper motion to discuss the matters that are entitled under 2.2-3711.. And there will be a certification motion made after, and each member will decide for themselves if that motion and discussion was in accordance with FOIA. And my. job as counsel is to make sure that that meeting discussion isi in accordance with FOIA. Because the only reason you're going back there is fort the provision of legal advice on Tony Scaramozzi: Is there any discussion, further discussion on the motion and the second made? None heard. All those ini favor, raise your hand and say, aye. Opposed?I I think the motion failed. specific legal matters. Oh, did I...I Ididn't hear anything. Robert Vannatta: [1:23:14.6] Max: Mr. Chairman, you could simply call forai roll call vote and that would make it clear whether ornot... Tony Scaramozzi: Let's have a roll call vote. 01/14/25 Page 22 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 Tony Scaramozzi: In the mic. Trische Mollner: Yes. S13:No. Robert Vannatta: No. Mark Varney: [1:23:36.9] Tony Scaramozzi: Chair votes aye. Motion passes. [pause] Max: Mr. Chairman, the board will need ai motion to: reconvene an open session. Tony Scaramozzi: I will entertain ai motion to reconvene an open session. Mark Varney: So moved. Tony Scaramozzi: Second? Trische Mollner: Second. Robert Vannatta: Second. Walter Moss: Aye. Trische Mollner: Aye. Mark Varney: Aye. Robert Vannatta: Aye. Tony Scaramozzi: All those in favor say aye. Tony Scaramozzi: Opposed? Motion carries. Max: The board members will now. need to be polled on the closed meeting. So there will be ai roll call Vote for each member to certify that to the best oft their knowledge only public business matters, lawfully exempted from open meeting requirements under FOIA and only such public business matters as were identified in the motion by which the closed meeting was convened, were heard, discussed, or considered in the meeting of the public body in closed session. Anyone believing that there was a departure from the requirements of these clauses shall state: so] prior to the vote and indicate the substance of the departure. So, Mr. Chairman, I'd ask that you please poll the Tony Scaramozzi: With or without... With or without that in front of them so they can reread it and members. approve or not approved. Can you read it again please? 01/14/25 Page 23 of41 King Gcorge Board ofZoning Appcals 10022024 Max: Sure. The two, the two clauses required to certify a closed meeting are that only public business matters lawfully exempted from open meeting requirements were discussed in the closed meeting and only those matters as identified in the motion were discussed. Tony Scaramozzi: Anybody else have any questions about what he said? So, the roll call votel has to do with yay or nay concerning what he said. Max: That's correct. Tony Scaramozzi: Sorry. Umm, Mr. Varney? Is that a yes? Mark Varney: Oh yes. Tony Scaramozzi: Vannatta? Robert Vannatta: Yes. Tony Scaramozzi: Mr. Moss? Walter Moss: Yes. Tony Scaramozzi: [1:41:14.4] Tony Scaramozzi: Yes. So all five [1:41:23.0] Max: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Umm, at this point, back to your normal business. Tony Scaramozzi: Alright, does the board... Mr. Carabin, do you like to add anything before we continue our discussion? Mr. Smolnik, do youl have anything to add? Richard Stuart: Mr. Chairman, we! have, umm, highlighted the criteria that's necessary for you all to find, you all have heard this and that's where we are. Tony Scaramozzi: Alright, sO let's open the board up for further discussion. Walter Moss: Mr. Dines, can you please put on the screen the criteria for granting a variance? [pause] Walter Moss: I'm: zeroing in on unreasonably restrict the utilization and hardship. Umm, I,Ican appreciate you have al beautiful application, uh, great drawings, wonderful plan. Umm, I just don't see where there's a, an unreasonable restriction, there's opportunity for providing other dwellings, other shape, sizes, umm, and just don't see hardship either. Umm, so in terms of the criteria to prove av variance, I don't see any measure of it having been met by the applicant. Tony Scaramozzi: Say the last part again. Walter Moss: In my opinion, the applicant has not met the criteria for granting, for us granting a variance. 01/14/25 Page 24 of41 King Gcorge. Board ofZoning Appcals 1002.2024 Tony Scaramozzi: So this is on us now, not on them. Walter Moss: Yes. Tony Scaramozzi: To determine if you think there's enough reasonable voice... Walter Moss: And I was giving my opinion as to how I have listened to all the parts, looked at the criteria, examined the evidence, read DEQ ordinance... Tony Scaramozzi: Any other discussions? Robert Vannatta: So 30 by 60 work for you? IfI, sO ifIt take al hybrid of option two and Ijust basically square off, you're gonna still encroach on thel RPA, but it's a fraction oft the RPA, and I get your argument is any part of thel RPA is part oft thel RPA, but again, when we talk 1900 square feet versus 55 square feet, rough math, I mean, it becomes significantly different in my, int the argument to me. Casey Schooler: Sorry. Umm. Robert Vamatta: Well, I go back to your, you... We talked about the 44 foot boat and then I look at your 40 by 50 garage, you know, I,I mean I back up trailers periodically. I,I'm curious to how you're gonna fit a 441 foot boat into a 40 foot lake. So you're gonna have to turn it into the 501 foot. So once you get it in the garage, what are you using? A utility cart or something to turn it and put it in the corner? Walter Moss: But, but it's... Robert Vannatta:In mean, you're not gonna doi it with at truck. Walter Moss: Is garaging a boat al hardship? Robert Vannatta: No, that's the other part ofit. It's an accessory building. Tony Scaramozzi: [1:46:16.8] Wait, wait, I think we: need to hear from you. Robert Vannatta: I'd like tol hear from the engineer. So... Casey Schooler: Ij just didn't know if you guys were, uh... Yeah, no. As far as the 30 by 50 goes, umm, It think that that's something that could maybe be explored as long as, you know, I'I let Mr. Carabin attest to that. But the, umm, overall impacts, I would definitely have tol look at the numbers inside oft the RPA. Obviously, we would still be inside ofit. Umm, that number may be able to get Robert Vannatta: Yeah, IThink if you take option two and you look at, you know, even if you go shrunk in some, but I don't know if we'll be able to get it to hardly any at all. 30 by 60 with option two, there's gonna be a corner that's inside that RPA. Casey Schooler: Yes sir. much lesser wedge. 01/14/25 Robert Vannatta: Ify you go, if you can reduce it down to 301 by 50, that that obviously becomes a Page 25 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appcals 10022024 Dwayne Carabin: I'd like to [1:47:01.5]. at that. Robert Vannatta: Well, the county's still gonna disagree then you're inside the! RPA. But... I,I I'm just looking at, I'mt trying... Again..I,1,I understand what you're trying to do. I'm, I'm a land rights kind of guy. You got a tough piece of property. I'm very,Iknow where it's at. I'm familiar with it. It's just, it's a tough piece of property and, and I get that the house was probably built well before these requirements were ever established 'cause your house wouldn't be there except for coming through and going through al hardship to get to that. So again, I'm, I'm trying to work it to minimize the effect on the other side. Umm, get you, it's not exactly what you're gonna want. I mean, obviously it doesn't have your overhang that you talked about, but it gets you closer to zero, from zero is wherel I'm at. So that's all, that's alll I'm asking is ifit'ss something that's an option? Tony Scaramozzi: You mentioned a dimension that was 30 by 60? [background conversation) Walter Moss: Ifyoug guys are gonna have a discussion, can we turn on the microphones please? Robert Vannatta: And I'mj proposing al hybrid option as part of the consideration. The variance is for crossing in the RPA. Ift they're willing to accept a 30 by 60, I think we can put conditions on it that option two, pursue option two with crossing thel RPA is kind of where my logic is going. I mean... Trische Mollner: Isn't that option one? Robert Vannatta: Ir mean, option one. Yeah. Tony Scaramozzi: Is this what you're conveying? Robert Vannatta: Yes. Tony Scaramozzi: Ors something else? Robert Vannatta: No, that's what I'm conveying. Tony Scaramozzi: Exactlythis? Robert Vannatta: Yes. Mark Varney: Is that [1:49:17.4]. Robert Vannatta: That's what we're here for. Robert Vannatta: Now, go to the option two. Option one. I'm sorry, I kept saying option two. background conversation] Robert Vannatta: All Iwas.. 01/14/25 Page 26 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 Mark Varney: [1:49:34.3] Robert Vannatta: [1:49:45.2] your Magic marker. RPA encroachment.. Tony Scaramozzi: You might need to repeat yourself for the record. Robert Vannatta: All right. Fort the, for thet record, you wanna turn the camera too or... What I was doing is I'm trying to take the county's proposal, and I'm trying to take the original plan proposal and kind of come to kind ofa Cross solution here. Umm, we're here for the variance. So my, my logic is, okay if we draw the linc across, square it off. That way, you know, we talked about the boat being 44 by 15, not have any room. This would give him that extra room to, you know, maneuver inside your own garage essentially. And that's what I'm asking is if that's something ofa Mark Varney: On the next part, I guess it's obvious to everyone that you have to get a variance to consideration to the party. do that. Tony Scaramozzi: Sorry, speak louder please. Mark Varney: The proposal he's making, uh, to get a bigger garage: makes an encroachment, which means that we have to do a, a variance to let them do that. Correct? Tony Scaramozzi: Wel have to approve at a variance with conditions. That is correct. Mark Varney: Yeah. That's... Mark Varney: Is see none. Tony Scaramozzi: Are there other conditions that would be considered under this circumstance? Robert Vannatta: Well, I,lwould still think we'd wanna make sure that we, get the flow Well, the shrubbery, the other proposed environmental protections to the land use as part oft that. I think the other one we talked about was a porous type, uh, driveway versus a hard structure, concrete, umm, pavement. Sol It think those would be potential considerations. Tony Scaramozzi: Is there motion before... What? Savannah Carabin: For your suggestion ofa a porous driveway, would that still necessarily be needed if the driveway is not encroaching on the buffer at all? Right. It's not. But you had, you just mentioned... Robert Vannatta: [1:51:58.5] isv what I'm gonna say. Savannah Carabin: Okay. Robert Vannatta: No, I wasj just, like I said, it was a consideration. I, I'mi not hard over on porous Robert Vannatta: Because it has been brought up by other members, last meeting we talked about itand stuff. You're outside the, you know, the buffer area for the driveway, SO. 01/14/25 Page 27 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appcals 10022024 Savannah Carabin: Right. Okay. Tony Scaramozzi: Well, I,I I've had to defert to the county on the driveway what would be best, umm, for the purposes of protecting water flow, et cetera, et cetera. Whatever goes into these things that apply, whether that would be, umm, asphalt would be an improvement or some other form of porousness would be an improvement. I,IC can't decide that. Right? That's whyl I said I would defer to county on whether on their recommendation, but they can't make any recommendation until Tony Scaramozzi: Ist there motion to be brought to the board or just a vote? Is there any motions we've decided what we're gonna, how we're gonna move forward. that would... Go ahead. You were gonna say? Walter Moss: Say we would have to have ai motion, Tony Scaramozzi: Right, right. So we... That's, that's what I'm asking. Is there gonna be, is therea motion that we would need to discuss?1 Ifthere arei no motions, then we need to vote. Walter Moss: Mr. Chair, I make ai motion that we deny the application for variance case number. Z- 2024-00196 for the applicant has not demonstrated hardship to approve the variance. Tony Scaramozzi: Is there as second? No second. The motion does not carry. Are there any other motions? Given that there are no other motions, then this vote that I'm gonna ask for has to do with as presented by Mr. Carabin, his alternative. Robert Vannatta: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion. Tony Scaramozzi: Okay. Robert Vanmatta: I, I'd like the motion that we. reopen this variance consideration to, you know, modify the county's proposed option one to open up that sliver and reconvene with a new drawing, engineering drawings for consideration of the, you know, that way, wel have the actual RPA numbers, everything in our consideration. I don't know how elsc to word this motion. BasicallyI wanna, I wanna make a motion to get to what I kind of drew on the board with my finger versus Tony Scaramozzi: I'mi not clear. Are you making a motion that we simply extend this meeting or Robert Vannatta: My preference would be toj project conditions on this variance that we pursue option one modified with the additional 10, you know, the 101 by 25 or 35 feet section that's not Tony Scaramozzi: It think without measure, you're saying draw a straight line across one side tot the simply reject this current variance. are you making a motion that you, we project, uh, conditions... currently projected. line coming across the other. And where they intersect is the space in question. Robert Vannatta: 30 by 60 structure. Tony Scaramozzi: So to clarify, what's your motion, again? 01/14/25 Page 28 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appcals 10022024 Robert Vannatta: I motion that we accept or we move: forward with the variance with conditions toa accept option one modified to reflect 301 by 60 and, umm, put conditions on to accept that the conditional, that the flow wells and the shrubbery considerations from the original plan are still maintained and that, you know, wei maintain the environmental aspect of remediations that were being put inj place. Tony Scaramozzi: Anybody record that? Can you play it back? Smolnik: I mean, everything you say is being recorded. We don't have a playback feature to the best of my knowledge, but everything you say is recorded and on YouTube, SO. Tony Scaramozzi: Alright. Umm, is there a second? Mark Varney:Isecond the motion. Tony Scaramozzi: Discussion? I'msony, but... Excuse me. Walter Moss: I still don't see a hardship. I,Iunderstand the motion. Iunderstand the motion. I'm, Tony Scaramozzi: Wait, just one at a time. Walter Moss: Garaging a boat is not al hardship. Garaging other, other clements, it's just not a hardship. You could take either one of option one or option two completely outside oft thel RPA.I It's, it'sr reasonable use oft the land. So as part of the discussion fort the motion, that's my contribution. Trische Mollner: Would that work for you if you have to go back and doj plans again? [background conversation] Mark Varney: Mr. Chairman, [1:58:37.2] Tony Scaramozzi: And discussion. Mark Varney: Discussion. is still thinking it over, we have ai motion and a second. Tony Scaramozzi: Is there any other discussion? Tony Scaramozzi: I think you added something to the motion, sO I'm not sure. Tony Scaramozzi: Okay, that's stilli in discussion. Can someone tell us thel legal... Smolnik: Can I please remind thel BZA members whenever you talk, make sure your microphone is on. There's a lot of microphones that are not on, please. Sol guess my question is, SO... [background conversation] Tony Scaramozzi: Wait, you have a question? 01/14/25 Page 29 of 41 King George Board ofZoning Appcals 10022024 Smolnik: How do we enforce, what are we enforcing? IfI,Iy wanna be clear on this motion. I heard, you know, talking about as sliver and Ij just wanna make sure if, ifthis does get passed by BZA, we as a county need to enforce this whenever the plans come in. Soj please be very clear on what it is you're proving and encroachments and whatnot sO that we know whenever the plans come in, what Tony Scaramozzi: Varney, can I have my yellowed sheet back. Umm Mr. Smolnik, would you take this please? This is not my motion, it's just something I did earlier. Ift the motion then calls that Walter Moss: So we have to dispatch with the current motion that's properly seconded. Tony Scaramozzi: Yes. But it's still in discussion. So the question was, is that enforceable? Richard Stuart: Mr. Chairman, from a legal standpoint, I don't know what the dimensions are, I don't know how much encroachment there is. And I can't speak for the: zoning administrator, but, but ifI have to prove that, I can't, because I don't know how long that line is. I don't know how much approachment is in the RPA. Umm, I,I6 based upon a rough... I mean I understand what you mean, but Idon't know that we could enforce that because they could say it means one thing and we Tony Scaramozzi: I think you're speaking to me in legalese. It's pretty clear we move the 25 foot line out to, umm, 35 feet added and then bring it down 10 feet to the 20: foot line that goes up and Richard Stuart: And, and you instructed that and you have written that in and, and you have included how much isi in the RPA, sO we. know, and you've also included in your motion all the plannings that are supposed tol be there, umm, that you want, you've included in that the grading plan, all of those things are in that drawing, I assume. I couldn't see it, Mr. Chairman. Tony Scaramozzi: So I think the point is that the motion, there was some discussion during this time about continuing with your plans for 40 for whatever, 40% improvement, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, it sounds like that has tol be, uh, part of the storyline that is conveyed clearly. And the measurements clearly are, umm, this sheet one: fort theiralternate or this is number one. Alright, sO modifying the county's number one proposal such that instead of, uh, being 25 by 10, by 35 and, and 301 feet down, 60 feet over 201 feet up, it's modified to be 301 feet up on the east end, 30 feet up just as the county proposed. And then 60 feet out and then 10 feet down to meet the, uh, county's original proposal addition would roughly equate to, uh, that 10 foot line which angles down to the corner of 20, uh, would still bei inside, outside, meaning they'd would overlap the RPA by what looks tol be 10 feet over tothe other 10: foot. So it's splitting that rectangle inl half, that 101 by 35 foot rectangle, uh, half oft that would be, uh, reaching overi into thel RPA and the other half would just be inside the bounce. It would not be a challenge. So what is being presented is are those measurements, this drawing and Umm, and those constraints applied to any decision we make herein? Of course it doesn't apply if we vote no because no is no. So, uh, L.. So the motion then is that we move forward with this proposal and vote yay or nay. Senator. Richard Stuart: Mr. Chairman, ifI may very briefly, I just wanna correct one thing. The county Tony Scaramozzi: Oh, I didn't say the county proposed that. I said based on the county's first tol look for and approve if, if, if we get to that stage. Thank you. out. think it means another. So it's up to interpretation. It's subjective... down. And that's 301 by 60. Very clear. was not proposing that. 01/14/25 Page 30 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 proposal.. Richard Stuart: Yes, sir. Tony Scaramozzi: We modified that. Richard Stuart: Yes, sir. The county didn't make any proposals in this. The board asked county staff.. Yes, sir, the board asked county stafft to come up with some examples. County, county hired professional.. Tony Scaramozzi: Alright, I got you. Professional language problem. Richard Stuart: Hired professional engineers to try to assist. But they are not proposing anything, 'cause I think that's improper. Sol I'mj just telling you,, just to correct the record, they've not proposed anything here. Just illustrating to you how something could be built outside oft thel RPA. Walter Moss: Mr. Chair, I think with the language that we would have toi incorporate into ai motion to, to get approval on this variance, as the applicant has requested, umm, It think it's a bit much to try to get all that into a motion. I think what is proper is that we deny the application as is, and based on the discussions that we've had here, It think it's pretty obvious that the, uh, applicant has taken all this on board and can have professional drawings completed and a new application Tony Scaramozzi: What would be the purpose of a new: application instead of extending the Walter Moss: Because the motion that would have to be made would have to be very complex and cover all oft the elements, DEQ, zoning, CBPA, and I don't know that we. have the ability to craft that level of detail into a motion with this board. I think there's too much that has to be in the Tony Scaramozzi: And It tend to agree 'cause you saw. how hard it was struggling to come up with the proposed words of thei motion to begin with, get, toget to where I was trying to go, sO, umm...I, submitted. application they have? application. Idon't... Richard Stuart: I,I think your argument was probably reasonable... Robert Vannatta: I don't like the idea of... I, I'ms struggling with the idea of, uh, rejecting the application, forcing them to reapply and pay the costs again to come back versus... That's whereI was talking about we're struggling with the discussion of, you know, extending it, giving them the opportunity. That way, that, the, the bureaucracy cost doesn't exist type thing. Umm, 'cause as we shared, I mean, they, they've kind of bent over backwards here trying to get what they want in here, and they've been trying to accommodate us, and wel kind of keep moving the needle al little bit. Umm... Walter Moss: I,Iunderstand, but we're... Sorry. Max: Uh, Mr. Chairman, the, the applicant has the op, option to request a deferral. Umm, you know, it, it has been aj process that, that has been ongoing with the BZA. And, umm, ift they would, ifthey would like a decision, they are entitled to a decision, umm, at this meeting. But ifthe 01/14/25 Page 31 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 applicant would like toj proceed on the sort of discussion that this board has had, they could request that from the board. But, umm, ifthey would like a decision, I,I think they are entitled to a decision Richard Stuart: And, and that's what I was gonna mention. Thank you. Umm, that you have to make a decision tonight, according to the time clock. They have already deferred this, uh, agreed to deferit once, but they're entitled to defer it again, umm, Ithink as long as they want to. And, and again, I'ves suggested they talk to counsel, but I don't know if there's any... Ona a BZA, 'causel don't represent the BZA.Idon't know ift there's any, uh, time limit you have to wait if youl have a, uh, application that's denied, SO... But I think those are your two choices, and your counsel's exactly Tony Scaramozzi: I'm at al loss. Do we. have ai motion? Can they, well, request a deferral on that Max: The motion would need to be either withdrawn at the request oft the applicant, umm, fora deferral, umm, or the motion can proceed in any form that al board member believes is the proper form of a motion. Umm, and if there is some amount of muddling through, then, you know, we will get there. But you, the applicant doesn't have the ability to defera motion made by the board Walter Moss: Correct. So that's where we are. Because wel have a motion, it's properly seconded. So we eitherl have to withdraw the motion, or we have to vote on it. Either way, we have the based on the timeline from their application to today's date. right. decision? member. That motion would need to be either withdrawn or voted on. dispatch oft the motion that's properly seconded. Trische Mollner: They can: request a deferment, right? Walter Moss: Wel have to dispatch with the seconded motion. Tony Scaramozzi: After the vote, they can request a deferral? Max: They could... If... It's a bit, it'sa al bit procedurally complex with ai motion pending. So easiest thing might be to have the board member who made thei motion toy withdraw it and then figure out if the applicants would like a deferral.. And if they do not, then the motion could be reintroduced. But that is incumbent upon the board member who made the motion. Walter Moss: Sorry, ma'am. Savannah Carabin: Oh, he, he should.. Yeah. Walter Moss: Wel have to figure out would we want this motion. Savannah Carabin: So I guess y'all vote and then you ask us. Robert Vannatta: Mr. Chair, I'd like to withdraw the motion on the board right now for further discussion. Tony Scaramozzi: Does that motion, that withdrawal have to be seconded? Trische Mollner: Seconded. 01/14/25 Page 32 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 Sidehill: Orisi it... Done. Max: It's done. Walter Moss: Thank you. Tony Scaramozzi: That was easy. Oh. Nothing's easy, and... Nor should it be. I mean, al lot of things are int thel balance. They really are, right? Whatever vote we were about to make, if we were gonna make a vote one way or the other would open doors or close doors to other county residents. Tony Scaramozzi: So, it's, it's very clear that we're in aj pivotal moment. So before. I take a vote, is Savannah Carabin: Is this now where you're looking for us to decidei if we'd like the deferral? Can Max: Mr. Chairman? Uh, giving them a moment might be appropriate for the board to take a quick Savannah Carabin: Are thel BZA meetings held the, the fourth Tuesday of cach month? Thank Robert Vannatta: Yeah. there anything that you'd like to say, the Carabins? you give us a moment to discuss amongst ourselves? Thank you. recess, five minutes, whatever it may be. Oh... you. Just wanna take that to consideration as we discuss. [pause] [background conversation] Tony Scaramozzi: So wei never broke? Max: No. Savannah Carabin: Okay. If, if we defer, is it going to require our engineer to be here or will you all be okay with the plans as presented with the stormwater mitigation, SO on and sO forth for the option discussed?'Cause we're, we're: spending money getting Casey here and doing all of this stuff. So we're, you know, we're trying to limit our costs here as much as possible. And ift that's the case, we can convene sooner rather than later. So it's a two-part question. Are you gonna wanna hear from our engineer ifwe, ifv we present his plans as you all discussed directly? And if that's the case, can you convene sooner than the fourth Tuesday of the month? Because that falls during Thanksgiving. Tony Scaramozzi: Well, that'sa different problem. Savannah Carabin: It is a different problem. Walter Moss: Umm, Thanksgiving's next month. Savannah Carabin: That's what I'm saying. 01/14/25 Page 33 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appcals 10022024 Tony Scaramozzi: So October,yould have an opportunity to hit the fourth Tuesday in October. Savannah Carabin: Okay. Walter Moss: So maybe that helps... Savannah Carabin: Check my calendar. allowed to show her the picture? Tony Scaramozzi: Can you do that, with or without the engineer? Max, I was gonna ask, are we Max: Yes. Everything that you all have discussed will be part of the record. Tony Scaramozzi: Okay. So you: should this, so he can help you make decisions. [background conversation) Savanmah Carabin: Can you confirm your availability for Tuesday, October 29th, please? Yes. Max: If, ifit's the fourth Tuesday of the month, that's the 22nd. Savannah Carabin: Oh my apologies. Tony Scaramozzi: The five of them? Savannah Carabin: I was still looking at November. Trische Moliner: Fourth Tuesday, Iv will not be here. Tony Scaramozzi: Well, would there be a quorum on the 22nd? Savanmah Carabin: Oh yeal, I guess I should be asking y'all too. Trische Mollner: I will not be here. Walter Moss: We can... have a quorum. Tony Scaramozzi: We're looking at your needs first. We'll then look at the board and see ifwe'll Savamah Carabin: The meeting would be at 6:30. Ifit's at 6:30,1 can makei it work. Tony Scaramozzi: Tuesday the 22nd is our normal meeting date? Savannah Carabin: Yes. Okay. Tony Scaramozzi: At 6:30. Sayannah Carabin: Yes, sir. 01/14/25 Page 34 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 Tony Scaramozzi: Alright. So are you asking forac deferral? Savannah Carabin: Yes sir. We're asking forac deferral to the next scheduled BZA meeting on October 22nd at 6:30 PM. Trische Mollner: Ic cannot. Tony Scaramozzi: Mark, Ken, Bob? Robert Vannatta: I believe my schedule supports. Walter Moss: Umm, probably not. Tony Scaramozzi: Who can make that meeting? Who cannot? Max: Well, I... Just for everybody's, you know, clarity. In order to grant a variance, thel board is, has to votel by a majority ofi its membership, which would be four people. That would alsol be the quorum in order to have a meeting. So, umm, whether the applicant would want more than four members there, they would need all four members to vote in their favor. Also, thel board would need tol have four peoplej just to have a quorum in order to take action. Soj just for you all's planning Tony Scaramozzi: You said... You're using different words, majority or quorum? purposes. Max: There is a quorum required for ai meeting and there is a specific membership vote to approve avariance, which is the majority of the membership entirely. Tony Scaramozzi: Simple majority, Soi it would have to be... Max: Simple majority of the membership, not of the quorum. Max: Oft the membership of the Board of Zoning Appeals. Tony Scaramozzi: What membership? Tony Scaramozzi: Maybel I need to say it differently. Ifthere are three at the meeting, can the meeting make decisions? Max: No. Tony Scaramozzi: Three is a quorum. Max: Three is... Tony Scaramozzi: Fouri is bigger majority is math. I'm just saying there are, what are the rules? Max: Seven members of the Board of Zoning Appeals. Tony Scaramozzi: Uh, that's right. Where's the othert two? 01/14/25 Page 35 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 Savanmah Carabin: Onc, Uh... Tony Scaramozzi: No that's not your question. Savannah Carabin: Sorry. Robert Vannatta: One recused himself. come is bothering me somewhat. Tony Scaramozzi: That's right. Then we. have another. Thought they were gonna bel here. All but the one that recused themself. Alright. One board member's making the case that he'll decide not to Sidehill: You currently have six members and you have one vacant position for the. James Monroe district. And then out oft the six that you do have, uh, Mr. Buckley has excused himself of this case. Tony Scaramozzi: So we: need four. That was what I was trying to get at was we: need four. Max: Correct. Your need four for a quorum in order to have a meeting and in order to approve a Tony Scaramozzi: Wel have a motion to prove deferral that the 22nd of October at 6:30 here, is Mark Varney: A question, umm, Mr. Chairman, I thought I heard somebody say they couldn't Tony Scaramozzi: The question is whether or not we'll have a quorum that day. variance request, a vote of four is required. there ai motion? make that. Is that true? Mark Varney: Right. Tony Scaramozzi: So is there a motion for us to meet that day? Because that's not a normal meeting day. But it can be extended to the 29th? You can make it the 29th? [2:20:29.9]. Walter Moss: So I'mi not seeing where ai motion is necessary. All we would do is adjourn, uh, until our next scheduled meeting. And after that, it would be a question of whether or not there would be aquorum, Trying to work out the fact that if thei fact or not fact that there'd be a quorum or not, that would change. Tony Scaramozzi: Don't we have to approve the deferral or not? Max: The deferral would have to be approved. Umm, and that would ideally be deferred to a date, you know, and time certain. So establishing whether or not there will be a quorum at the meeting date that it would be postponed to, I think is an appropriate exercise for the board to got through. Tony Scaramozzi: But we're not bound to meet on the 22nd. We could meet on the 29th. Max: Correct. You can call a meeting for the 29th. Tony Scaramozzi: Alright. 01/14/25 Page 36 of41 King George Board ofz Zoning Appeals 10022024 Max: And notice it consistent with FOIA and give everybody notiçe. Tony Scaramozzi: Ist there a motion required to do that or can the chairj just move that we... We have to approve or deny the request, right? [background conversation) Tony Scaramozzi: Can you tell us if thei room will be available? Smolnik: At this point, sir? No, I cannot, and I will not be available, you know, on, on those two dates. The 22nd or the 29th. Thank you for, uh, but I cannot tell, I'm, I'm, Idon't have access tot that. Itd does not, you know, we have, we have other staff members who book this room specifically that isi not under my purview as the county administrator.. Tony Scaramozzi: You don't Have it on your calendar. Smolnik: It it, it's a separate, it it'sa, it's the staff members who do that are not here. Id did not anticipate having to look to additional dates. I could not, I'm sorry. Ia apologize. Walter Moss: Potential for other venues. Tony Scaramozzi: We could, uh, potential for other venues we could use... There's the, uh, Parks and Rec facility. We'd have to check on that, Idoi not have access to that right now. There's the library. Imean there are options. We would just have to notice it with a specific, uh, date, time, and Max: Correct. It would be three, umm, business days ahead of the meeting. Umm, if at any point this were established as a, you know, continued meeting and notice were given to the members, notice would then be given to the public contemporancous'y with when it was given to. Tony Scaramozzi: All right, SO... Ithink we can be flexible and negotiate that between what you come up with and me. Right. You could talk to me about, well you don't have another time and space available or you do, right? Then we can decide that. So, uh, that doesn't have to be pinpointed tonight. Do we need a motion for this or can wej just vote that we defer until the 29th? Max: Assuming that's the applicant's request for... Yeah, then the there would be a motion to defer location. I believe it's three days prior to the meeting. would be appropriate. Tony Scaramozzi: Is there a motion? Mark Varney:Is so move. with proposed options? Robert Vannatta: Can We defer to a date that the county and the applicant can agree to and, and approach it from that perspective rather than establish a date, let the twoj parties come back to us Max: Yes. There will have to be a meeting date established. Robert Vamatta: Right. So, sO we: sound, it sounds like between the county side and the applicant side, you know, and then the board side itself. So all three parties can't really especially pick a date. 01/14/25 Page 37 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 So what I'd like to doi is adjourn this meeting, defer to, you know, accept the deference, adjourn this meeting and let the county and the applicant come together with some option dates that the county can support the applicant support and then we can elect, or that's kind of1 how we approached the August one. I mean we kind of backed our way into We let them kind of decide and they came back with the dates established here. I kind ofl like to do the: same thing versus us dictating that we're gonna come back on the 29th. The county's already telling us they're not available. We don't know Max:I think the be the best way to, to manage that is, umm, to, if the motion is to defer, ist to defer toa, umm, specially called meeting to be coordinated with the applicant, the county and the board members. Uh, and then we'll notice that as a specially called meeting oft the board of zoning appeals Tony Scaramozzi: We have at least one board member that will honestly try to be here but needs Max: SoI,Iwould recommend that the motion be to postpone consideration of, of this matter to a Walter Moss: And you said it has to be at least three days beforehand that all the notices go out? Max: Uh, specially call meeting has different rules, but, but we would look to notice it consistent Walter Moss: Yeah, that's, that's fair enough. Just the opportunity to be able to: schedule! it. the room's available. We don't know... as opposed to trying to continue ai meeting to a certain time. tol know the date that we're gonna set so they can be. specially called meeting to be coordinated with the county and the applicant. with al regular meeting or are. in advance of that. Tony Scaramozzi: Is there a motion? Richard Stuart: [2:26:42.0] they're not, then wel have [2:26:47.6] whether or not they're in agreement with that. I'm sorry but if soIt think it's important that they state on the record that they are in agreement, preferring to a specially called meeting at some point [2:26:56.8] Tony Scaramozzi: That we can all agree on including them. Max: If, if... Well: if the applicant.. If you could approach the microphone just so it's on. This board is gonna either defer at your request and, and I understand that you may not feel it is an entirely voluntary request based on the discussions, but we'll need something to say that it is a request to deferore else this board needs to take a vote up or down on a variance application. Dwayne Carabin: I request to defer. Max: Okay. Ij just want to be clear. Thank You. Tony Scaramozzi: To an unspecified but negotiable date. Dwayne Carabin: Yes. With a negotiable date. Tony Scaramozzi: Is there a motion along those lines? Walter Moss: Mr. Chair, I make ai motion that we defer, uh, a vote on this variance until a meeting 01/14/25 Page 38 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 can be coordinated, uh, in thei future date that meets both uh, board county and, uh, applicant schedules. Mark Varney: Second the motion. Tony Scaramozzi: Discussion? All those in favor say aye. Walter Moss: Aye. Robert Vannatta: Aye. Mark Varney: Aye. Trische Mollner: Aye. Tony Scaramozzi: Opposed? Motion carries. Smolnik: Mr. Chairman... Tony Scaramozzi: There being one more point to be made. Smolnik: Well, Ij just for clarification, last, at the last deferral, you gave us a specific charge to, to work with them to find some middle ground. Is there as specific charge or direction on staff and/or the applicant's behalf? Or do we just defer to a date and just come back and continue the discussion? Tony Scaramozzi: That's, that's a very good point. Now what I handed them was what, was part of the original motion with constraints. They will need to present that to you and you will need to be able to convey that that isi indeed enforceable, whether or not it crosses the line. Fair enough? Smolnik: Yes sir. Tony Scaramozzi: Can we have one meeting please? Robert Vannatta: Umm, and Mr. Chair, do we come to an agreement whether the, we expect the engineer to be here or not or? Smolnik: Who... I,I,I, the engineer, I have two engineers here. Robert Vannatta: No, their engineer. Smolnik: Their... Tony Scaramozzi: The applicant Engineer. Smolnik: Engincer? Casey Schooler: Yeah. Smolnik: Oh, okay, okay. 01/14/25 Page 39 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 Tony Scaramozzi: We don't know... Smolnik: I,Id didn't know, when I heard engineer, II have two professional engineers. Ijust didn't know he was a professional engineer, sol I wanna make sure it's not, Idon't wanna confuse. Robert Vannatta: I'm sorry. Smolnik: Okay. Robert Vannatta: From the applicant's side, they had asked whether they, we expected the, their Tony Scaramozzi: I don't know that we need the applicant's engineer. We need you to convey that engineer to be on here or not because... what they convey is enforceable. Robert Vannatta: Yes. did take the vote? Max: We voted. Tony Scaramozzi: And they need to convey what we proposed earlier sO that you can convey to him something that he can hopefully enforce. So where were we? Were we about to take a vote or Tony Scaramozzi: And it passed? Thank you. I know where we were. There being no other business, this meeting has convened. Over. Robert Vannatta: Adjourned. Mark Varney: Adjourned. Thank you all for coming. 01/14/25 Page 40 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 10022024 Thank you for choosing Scribie.com Cross-check this transcript against the audio quickly and efficiently using our online Integrated Editor. Please visit thei following link and click the Check & Download button to start. itps/seribic.com/flx40A11799529424705e104b58667552672150 01/14/25 Page 41 of41 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 King George Board of Zoning Appeals 11-06-2024 carclano@co.singgeorgestateya.Is scribie Audio transcription, Perfected htps/seribic.com/fls0dad83494ee494ee49e8b38bblRc9b6c3le555e57fca 01/09/25 Page 1of27 King Gcorge Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 Tony Scaramozzi: We'll give itj just a little more time. We think another member is due to arrive, Tony Scaramozzi: It being 6:33 by my clock, Ithink we'lll begin. I want to start with recommending or encouraging everyone to get close to the mic when you speak sO that we don't lose any of the recording of what's being said. We'll start with thel Pledge of Allegiance and an invocation. DoIhave a volunteer for thel Pledge of Allegiance? You do. $?:1 pledge allegiance to thei flag oft the United States of American and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Speaker 2: We just ask that you be with us tonight. Wel have decisions to make and we need wisdom and integrity in all that wec do. So we: ask that you bel here with us and ensure that that is the Tony Scaramozzi: This is a continuation oft two previous meetings. There are no minutes to read. They have not been yet compiled completely. So we'll move on. There are no public hearings today. So old business. Continuation from meeting on August 27th and October 2nd regarding a variance request for case number Z2024-00196, a request byl Duane Carabin, So that's where we'll start. Mr. Matt Smolnik: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the board, Matt Smolnik, County Administrator for King George. So really there's no additional information from the county standpoint other than the revised plan that was submitted by the applicant. County standpoint is the same. It think iti is ai much better plan, but wel have to follow the law. There's five criteria that are outlined fora variance, but that's what we're looking at. So you have the revised plan in front of it's not well perceived. We can. Ist that correct? case. In Jesus namel I pray, Amen. Carabin, no wait, the county, would you like to make your case? you. Nothing additional beyond that, sir. Tony Scaramozzi: All right, thank you. Mr. Carabin, are you a representative? Clark Lemming: Good evening, Mr. Chairman and members of thel Board of Zoning Appeals. I'm Clark Lemming and I'ml here on behalf of the applicant. I'm sorry I missed the first two meetings, but you've been at this for quite a while and I don't tend to complicate things. But there are some matters that I wanna be sure to get on the record. And the main reason for that is 'cause ofa Tony Scaramozzi: I'm sorry, could you repeat your name and how you represent the applicant? statement, I watched the videos carefully, a statement made. ClarkLemming: I'm his attorney and my name is Clark Lemming. Tony Scaramozzi: Clark Lemming. Yes, sir. Thank you. Clark Lemming: And I've been practicing in Virginia for doing land use law for 40 years and I've been before 15 different BZAs and actually had a matter pending with this one some years ago. So I've done al lot of this kind of work. Now, I did watch closely the videos and there was a statement made by Mr. Stewart, the county attorney here, saying that, trying to give you advice that ifthis variance were adopted, that thel BZAI may well be sued. Now, I don't know who would be the entity that would bring that suit, but 'cause that statement has been made and 'cause thel Board of 01/09/25 Page 2of27 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 Supervisors does havet the right toj jump in after this proceeding and challenge a variance, there are some thingsl I would like to get on the record. Now, in the way of! background, Ithink you all probably appreciate that this all started with al building permit application. It was denied. I'mi not sure what the ground was. I don't know whether there was a water dependency analysis that was Clark) Lemming: But at that time, the interim: zoning administrator and planning director was Richard Stewart Jr. And he advised Mr. Carabin that what he needed to do, rather than appeal that, was to go this route. So the variance. And indeed, in your ordinance, there is a provision that under your Chesapeake Bay overlay district that says, ify you want relief from thej provisions here, you go to the BZA and use those rules and get a variance. Now, I believe that that arises from aj provision in the Chesapeake regs. This is 9VAC2583150. And here is the, this ist the section that goes into Clark Lemming: And the particular device that's utilized under the regs is exceptions. Not variances, but exceptions. More than their criteria that are set forth for exceptions that are quite similar to the criteria for variances, except for the threshold criteria. And Mr. Chairman, at the, on the video, you correctly recognize that there's an or, two different threshold questions. Reasonable Clark Lemming: Now, the next section of the regs says, each government shall design and implement an appropriate process or processes for the administration of exceptions. Not variances, exceptions. The process to be used for exceptions shall include, is not limited to the following. An exception may be considered and acted upon only by the local legislative body, the local planning commission, or special committee, board, or commission established or designated by the local govemment. Now,Ithink what King George County has done is to designate the Board of Zoning Appeals. The question is provision goes on, that entity established or designated by the local government to implement the provisions oft this act in this chapter. It's a lot more than exceptions. Now, I don't know what the delegation was that was made to the BZA, but it's more than just exceptions. Ifthis is the provision that the county followed. Now, as you wrote know, I'm sure the BZA is a creature of statute and it can only do those particular things that the general assembly delegates to thel BZA. So here we. have an exception process that goes to the substance oft the matter raised tonight, an intrusion into thel RPA. But what the county says is that you all should doa variance, which is completely different criteria and is not something that is designated, ify you look at the definition fora a variance and int there about RPA or Ches Bay or anything like that. Clark Lemming: Now, I was struck inj preparing for this and try to doal little research. There isa very recent Virginia Court of Appeals case. It comes out oft the city of Alexandria and it's Avellaneda versus City of Alexandria. Now in that case the applicant had al home in historic Alexandria and wanted tol build a driveway but in historic district can't doi it. So wel have to approach by alley. So went to the BZA, got a variance. City of Alexandria sued and said, no, that's not a good variance.. And they, both, the circuit court and the court appeals agreed and said that exceeded the scope, the narrow scope of things that are delegated to the BZA under that very definition of BZA, that I think Mr. Stewart shared with you at thel last meeting. So that's what the Clark Lemming: Now. So where does that, where does that put us? Well, Idon't! know whether the BZA has the authority to grant a variance under these circumstances, even though the county has put Ches Bay regs into their zoning ordinance, which is a whole different discussion, but what I don't think there's authority to do is to have the BZA administer a variance for the issue that clearly done or what the reason was. relief from the Chesapeake regs. restriction and physical hardship. So that's not in the exceptions here. BZA, is limited to. 01/09/25 Page 3 of27 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 arises from the Ches Bay regs. So now having reached that conclusion, well, what do we do?. And that's your all's question. And II know you'll consult with your, counsel and Idid talk briefly with Mr. Laban about this. II know hei is still out, Mr. Laban, I'm sorry. But let's see what can be accomplished. What I'm gonna do, having raised that issue and what I think the basis is for that. I assume that youl haven't done one of these previously. This is al new provision to the ordinance, most localities ofcoursel have particular commissions or boards, wetlands boards, Ches bay boards, that sort of thing, but BZA is certainly not spelled out in the regs here. And it's a broader delegation ofauthority. And it specifically says you can find somebody else to hear exceptions not variances. Clark Lemming: Now,I raised this and I want my client tol be able to do what they wanna do, but] I don't wanna, get up at some point, perhaps to the circuit court only to be told the same thing that the court of appeals just said in this case up in Alexandria, that the BZA exceeded its authority. SoI bring that to your attention' 'cause I think it's a legitimate issue and I'mi not sure what to do about it. And you alll have to decide. Now, what I am gonna do, and I'm erring on the side of caution here, there may be something I don't know about this, some other provision, but I'm gonna analyze.I I don't think this has been done completely before. I'm gonna analyze the statutory criteria fora Clarkl Lemming: And just bes sure that all thei information is before you that you need for that purpose. And then I'm gonna do thes same thing for the exception criteria. Now, as I indicated, there are similarities between the two, but they're not the same.. And it's a higher standard, for the variance. The first one, the very... Mainly because you with the threshold criteria. 'cause you've gotta make aj preliminary decision. Isi it ai reasonable restriction? Is it a physical hardship? So now I don't think I do wanna clear one thing up, there was a suggestion made at your last meeting by Mr. Stewart that granting a variance where this is contrary to thei intellectual language is the purpose of the ordinance, not) just the ordinances, I think he actually said. But the purpose oft the ordinance, it's not if youl have the authority to grant the variance, of course, 'cause the ordinance and the state regs Clark Lemming: So it's fully anticipated that there willl bes some instances where it's appropriate, if that interpretation were correct, you could never grant a variance for anything 'cause it's by... Variances are by definition contrary to the ordinance. So I just wanted to get that out of the way. Now, the starting point and I'm gonna start unreasonable restriction prong ofs statutory test, what is Mr. Carabin asking for? He's asking for a facility to house his very expensive boat. Now, he purchased the lot in 2023. AsIt think you know, it's at the confluence of two bodies of water. It has al house on it. Itisap pre Ches Bay lot. You couldn't make that lot today. The loti is about two acres and at least 1.7 and probably closer to 1.8 of those acres is encumbered by the RPA. So what can variance 'cause that's the track you've been on. everything, they include the variance criteria. you do? Well it's al buildable lot. And... Clark Lemming: Yes, sir. All right. Tony Scaramozzi: You mean the state... Clark Lemming: Which way to go? Tony Scaramozzi: I'm sorry. Tony Scaramozzi: I'd like to discuss the variance question first. Clark Lemming: Which you mean which prong to go, which way to go? 01/09/25 Page 4 of27 King Georgc Board ofZoning Appcals 11-06-2024 Tony Scaramozzi: No. Clark Lemming: On the threshold. Tony Scaramozzi: My view of what you're stating with respect to, are we in authority to grant a variance? Clark Lemming: Okay. Certainly. Sure. Tony Scaramozzi: The state tells us us that we are and the county has designated this body to do sO. ClarkLemming: Yes, sir. Tony Scaramozzi: Variances. Clark Lemming: Mm-hmm. Tony Scaramozzi: The county has absorbed the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act into its ordinances. It has just accepted it as it is, as part of what we do. Soi if the language is different Clark Lemming: Iunderstand, sir and... Yeah, of coursel Iunderstand that you've got an ordinance between them, I go on what the county tells us and that is a variance. and you all... Tony Scaramozzi: Follow it. Clark Lemming: You feel you got to comply with the ordinance. I'm just, as I indicated, sir, I am putting this on the record 'cause ifit comes up later, I wanna be sure that it was out there because they may be the ones raising that we ever got the circuit court. Tony Scaramozzi: Understood. Clark Lemming: Okay, now variance. Okay, sO first issue is the... And that's thei road I was headed down talking about the unusual situation that Mr. Carabin finds himself in. Basically the entire parcel is encumbered by the RPA. So what he's asking for is, in my view, a reasonable thing fora boater. He's got a very expensive boat. It'sa 101 foot wide and 301 foot long boat, and he does pullit out of they water every winter. It doesn't stay in the water. King George County does not have a boat hotel. Wel have some in Stafford, but not over here. So what is hel looking for? He'sa a boat lover and hei is looking for a place to house his boat to protect it from the elements to winterize it and to do his routine mantenance all season. So that ist the primary purpose of what's being proposed to you. Now, the unreasonable restriction I think is this, and I'm gonna analyze both prongs. I think the unreasonable restriction is this. What he is seeking to doi is a completely reasonable thing from the standpoint of a property owner on the water that owns a boat. So ifs you say, no, he can't have this, you are restricting his full utilization oft that parcel, which has a number ofi issues with it anyway, sO Clark Lemming: So that's how I analyze that threshold. Now I'm gonna go ahead with the other threshold question before I get to the specific criteria. And of course the other threshold is whether that I think is an unreasonable restriction to impose on this property owner. 01/09/25 Page 5of27 King Gcorge Board ofZoning Appcals 11-06-2024 there is... Tony Scaramozzi: Please stay close to the mic. Tony Scaramozzi: Please stay close to the mic. ClarkLemming: I'msorry. Clark Lemming: Okay. Alleviate a physical hardship due to a condition relating to the property. Well, the condition relating to the property here is that it is encumbered by thel RPA. It'sal lawful lot, but most of the lot isi ini thel RPA. Now, thel RPA came along after the lot was subdivided and afteri it was built on, but it's still a lawful lot. It's] pre Ches Bay lot. And are those individuals to be treated differently than somebody that had al lot on the water without as much RPA?1 They probably all have some but not this much. And it's' 'cause oft the particular location, sO the hardship, the physical hardship is the unusual shape of the lot. The fact that iti is in between two bodies of water, it is actually aj peninsula and comes to aj point at one side and there are simply not very many places on thej property where anything can be built out oft thel RPA. Now, our engineer who talked with you last time and who's here tonight, has looked at the entire property. Ist there aj place you could have a boat storage facility closer to the water so there's more proximity to the water? It's right next... Well out to the end where the dock is. You've got a 20 foot drop off over to the other side of the property from thes structure being proposed there is marshland. You can't get al boat in there. So they looked thej property over very carefully and decided this was the only location for as structure Clark Lemming: Now, sO which way do you go? Now I dol have, and I know Mr. Chairman, that you're already acquainted with the two prongs and that you can go either way. There is another 2024 case out of the court of appeals and one that I was involved in overi in the county of Louisa where variance was granted by the circuit court. BZA turned it down, court granted it, court of appeals held it up, and this is the first case to analyze the 2015 amendments to your variance criteria. So it's a valuable case. The case is Board of Supervisors for County of Louisa versus Valerie Holdings of Virginia, and I did bring al bunch of copies oft that ify you'd like to have them. I don't mean necessarily read them tonight, but it works through the analysis. Also makes the point you don't have to go with both of 'em, you don't have to analyze both of them. In that case, the circuit court judge only analyzed the unreasonable restriction and decided that was sufficient the criteria were all met. He didn't even look at physical hardship. But you can go either way you want on that threshold question. You got to decide which iss stronger, which is more appropriate, oneor Clark Lemming: Now the criteria themselves are somewhat more straightforward and I think on their face less analytic. First, of course, is that the property was acquired in good faith and at any hardship, not the hardship, but any hardship was not created by the applicant. Now the lot, asl indicated, was purchased in 2023 waterfront lot, lots of opportunities for somebody interested in the water and specifically in boating. So he paid $775,000 for the lot and for another lot right next to it. Unusable has no buildable pad in or out of thel RPA, but there are actually technically two lots Tony Scaramozzi: Are you describing the applicant's lot or the precedent lot that you're talking to designed to accomplish what hei intends here. both or neither. combined there. The second of which is pretty worthless. 2015. Clark Lemming: I'm sorry. You mean, they... 01/09/25 Page 60 of27 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 Tony Scaramozzi: You spoke about a case that occurred? Clark Lemming: No, I'mi talking about Mr. Carabin's lot now. We're back to the criteria. The case thatItold you about simply lays out very specifically the analytic framework that the BZAs are to follow and the state courts if it gets to that level. And it'sa helpful device. I just bring it to your attention because, for the first time we. have an appellate decision that actually addresses the 2015 Tony Scaramozzi: Okay, there are two points to be made. One, the state describes our responsibilities as the Board ofZoning Appeals, and in that description it says that we are: not bound by precedents, that they are never the same as the case before you. So we don't even look at the precedents because we're not bound by that. We're individual case based on individual applicants and individual response from thel Board of Zoning Appeal. The second one was that we have established in the previous two meetings that we're looking at the variance on aj position of amendments. reasonableness, is it reasonable or not reasonable... Clark Lemming: Unreasonable restriction. Tony Scaramozzi: And SO we're not even arguing ifi it's an unreasonable restriction, we're just looking at the fact that it's there, sO the RPA is there and your applicant has made adjustments and submitted: a drawing todayt that addresses the situation to some degree. So we probably should focus on that. Oh, and there is a third. What goes into the barn is not, or the pole bam or the garage, it's Clark. Lemming: Understand. And to your first point, I'm aware, and I've heard from other BZAS, and it's true. You're not bound by precedent. So the only reason I bring up the case is because it'sa useful device. Okay? And it does analyze the 2015 criteria, not that you couldn't do so all by yourselves without the assistance of the court. Now, as far as the, how you're working through the analysis, that's up to you. But if we're here on a variance, then, there's a set procedure to go through and certain criteria tol be addressed.. And as you pointed out at the last meeting, I think that, that's an all in between unreasonable restriction and physical hardship. So, I just.. Trying to give you what I know about this, and you may not need any of that, but I still wanna get it on the record. not our concern. Tony Scaramozzi: I appreciate it. Clark Lemming: Okay. Now, sO thej property was acquired. I don't, I think certainly in good faith, certainly paid market value fori it. And SO it is a... Knew it was aj pre Ches Bay lot, and had al lot of opportunities, and al lot of waterfront and a great place for him to retire and enjoy his boating. Now, any hardship was not created by the applicant. That's part of that same first criteria. Well, the state law is, of course, what established thel RPA, nothing that he did. So, I mean, that ist the difficulty, the hardship, if you will, for doing anything on this lot is where you do it and how you avoid the Clark Lemming: Now, the grant of the variance is not detrimental to adjacent properties. This is a relatively small structure. It's a relatively big lot. The closest houses are on the others side of the street from this. There's nothing on cither side of any proximity. Sol I don't think, It think it's clear that, I hope you can tell, but that does not affect anybody's viewshed. There have been no objections from the neighbors that I'm aware of and he's talked with his neighbors so I assume ift they had a problem with it they would come and tell you about that, but there's not. And I don't think a RPA, which) I submit you can't. 01/09/25 Page 7of27 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 building of this size would bei inherently detrimental to neighboring properties. Clark Lemming: Now, the third, the issue is not sO general or reoccurring as to make reasonably practical a general regulation. This is pretty much a one-fer. In mean, there are not too many instances where you have pre Ches Bay lots that are encumbered to this extent by RPA. Most lots face the water. That may bej pre Ches Bay, and there's an RPA, but just on one side of the lot. This one's surrounded by thel lot. Sol don't think it's feasible for anybody at the county, clever as some oft the county officials are, to come up with something that would address other instances of this because I don't think you'll ever see one again.. And it may be that King George County will never Clark) Lemming: Now, number four is the variance does not create a use not permitted on the property. It doesn't. This is a use.. An accessory building is permitted on the property. It's not a new use. It's something permitted within the residential and even agricultural zoning districts. So there's no new use here. And the reliefi is not available through a special exception process. Now that's an interesting one. Back to the exception. Now, I don't think this is a reference to in the state code anything coming out oft the Ches Bay regs, but it does say special exception. Now, I know in King George County that what is referred toi in some other locations as special use permits and conditional use permits is a special exception here in King George, same process. But there is no nothing in the ordinance that would open up a special exception process for this applicant. It think Clark Lemming: Now, I would, and then of course you have the ability to impose conditions that would run with any variance and this... There are two drawings that have been prepared for you and shared with you in advance. One is that the larger structure is the one that he believes he needs in order to accomplish his purpose. More of that structure is in the RPA. There is also another one, which has a 10-foot intrusion into the RPA. Now, happy to limit the boating activity to one portion of this facility. But recall that we're dealing here with al boat that's 101 feet wide and 301 feet long. So it is not a small vehicle, and there's all kinds of other equipment and things that go with it, including as skiff that is sometimes used to service the larger boat. Soi ifthere are appropriate conditions, then Clark Lemming: Now, what I would like to do, and again, Mr. Chairman, I hear what you say about this delegation and why you all are stuck with the regs. And I'm actually, I'm predicted that that would be your position. But to the end ofe establishing a record, the Ches Bay exception criteria, and they're short, very much like the variance criteria, except there's no starting point. And I'll tell you that I don't think there's any question, given the delegation permitted in the Ches Bay regs, that you: all can hear an exception. My question is about the variance. Now that's beyond your scope, Clark Lemming: So here are the criteria for an exception. And they're similar. First ofa all, minimum necessary. That is, the relief granted is the minimum necessary toafford the relief or the request, minimum necessary to afford relief. So we're trying to do to completely stay out of the RPA as much as possible, but still have a building that is suitable fori its purposes. And Mr. Carabin would tell you that the purposes oft the building are to house his boat and other paraphernalia. He has a very small garage on the: side of the house. So for him to do what he wants to do with the Clark Lemming: Now, second, does not confer any special privilege on an applicant denied to other property owners. Well, I don't think any other property owners have been before you on this, see one again. you're aware of that. I'm: sure you will add those to any variance that you) might approve. here. and Ihear you on that, but I may have to deal with it somewhere else. property, the larger building is what he would like to see. 01/09/25 Page 8 of27 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 and there's nothing inherent about this that gives him a special privilege. It's aj process that he goes through, and anybody else seeking relief would also have to go through. So there's no special privilege here. Hel has toj jump through the hoops, just like anybody else would coming through this. Clark Lemming: Now, the third criterioni is the exception is in harmony with thej purpose intent of thei regs and specifically, not of substantial detriment to water quality. Okay. Now, It think thisi is very similar to the provision. in the variance definition, which says that the variance has to be consistent with the purpose oft the ordinance. Well, like the variance, the criteria is built into the regs. And it'si right there. It'spart of the exceptions. So once again, the drafters here have anticipated that they're going tol bet these situations and apply for relief. Sol don't think that is interpreted any Clark Lemming: Now, the exception request was not based on self-created conditions. Now sort of like self-imposed hardship, but self-created conditions. Well, he didn't create the condition that brings him here. That was something that was imposed on the property and Ches Bay Act had a wonderful public purpose and has achieved great things, but that was what led to the extensive RPA Clarkl Lemming: And then finally, this is the end. Reasonable and appropriate conditions may be imposed here too. So without the threshold analysis, the criteria themselves are pretty similar toa variance. Now, that is all thatI wanted to put before you.I I do have, of course, Mr. Carabin is here, I have the engineer here. Oh, I'm sorry, let me go back. One minute, the criteria. No substantial detriment to water quality, the third criteria. That's why a water quality impact assessment is done and was done in this case to show that there is no detrimental effect on the water. differently than you would for your variance. on this previously approved and subdivided parcel. So he didn't make that. Tony Scaramozzi: All right, thank you very much. Clark Lemming: Oh, yes, sir. All right, thank you, and I'ml happy to answer any questions, but you Tony Scaramozzi: No are there any questions? Okay, thank you. Sorry, I should have asked that. probably may not have had it. Clark Lemming: I should have. S?: Yeah you can show. Tony Scaramozzi: Is there presentation from the applicants group? Speaker 5: Just kidding, you get to hear from me. Good evening, Chairman and members of the board. Wej prepared for you alls some properties with similar circumstances, and ifit's okay, ifI could pass out aj printout oft these similar properties. It's similar in nature to what we're trying to Tony Scaramozzi: We'd prefer actually, at least the chair would prefer that you get to the point of Clark Lemming: Maybe I can clarify. We made the point that he's trying to do something reasonable with his property. These are simply other examples in King George County that have the very kind of structure that he'ss seeking to dol here. Other waterfront properties. We don't know where the RPA is on the properties, but what he's trying to accomplish, that's all that it stands for. accomplish, and they're also in King George. what you're trying to present today. 01/09/25 Page 9 of27 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 So. Speaker 2: Okay. Can you project what you are presenting today on the screen? Can wel have that projected sO we can see it? Clark Lemming: I don't think SO. Although she has copies. Tony Scaramozzi: Oh, we can't. Okay. That's all right. We got 'em before us. So let me describe what L. Speaker 5: thought you would've had hand. Tony Scaramozzi: No, the site plan. Clark Lemming: The site plans are here. Yes, both site plans are here. Tony Scaramozzi: We need youl by the mic. I can barely hear what you're saying. Speaker 5: This is the version that wej presented to you all at the last meeting. And then the next slide is the third version that was presented to you all as well as you requested. Tony Scaramozzi: Great. That's what we see before us. Clark Lemming: I believe at thel last meeting there was a suggestion made about an alteration to thel building, but I don't think you wanted to look at that because it hadn't been presented by the Tony Scaramozzi: My position was that we would or should not vote on conjecture, but only on Clark Lemming: Yes. So that's why we brought the two. So see the full picture of what we understand was: suggested and what Mr. Carabin would like to see on the property. Tony Scaramozzi: All right, so thisi is what you're projecting and you'd like us to act on, is that applicant. So that's the intent. what is written down. correct? Clark Lemming: Yes. Yess sir. Tony Scaramozzi: All right. Just ai few things and I'l open it up for discussion, but across the last two meetings, it was clear that we're looking at whether or not it's a reasonable... In the end, the applicant has made a case fora a reasonable incursion into the RPA. Hes started out with 4,950 square feet ofi incursion into the RPA. At one point we talked about a 40% reduction int that, which got us to about 2000 square feet. Today, according to these drawings, asl I understand it, this 101 foot incursion is about 50 square feet. Sol I'm going to openi it up. 155: square feet. Thank you. Oh, thank you. I was trying to do the math in my head. I'm a result of public school math. All right, so that'sa lot more than 50 square feet. But nevertheless, at one of the last meetings, I made it clear that our view was determining the board is: zoning appeals. Their place in this matter is defining the term reasonable in this case, and that's what we're about today. Sol I'I open it upi for discussion. Is therea discussion? Is there a motion to accept or reject this applicant's submission? Speak to the mic please. 01/09/25 Page 10of27 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 Mark Varney:Imove that we accept this as it is. Tony Scaramozzi: A little louder. Please. Mark Varney: I move that we accept this new one that has 155 square feet. It is reasonable. It's big Tony Scaramozzi: It think I heard that you're moving that this is the 155 square foot incursion is cnough for his boat. And ifit it's okay with them, I think it'sal reasonable thing. reasonable. Mark Varney: That's correçt. Tony Scaramozzi: There is discussion. I'll start with remember ift there's a variance granted constraints can be provided by the board of zoning appeals, that you must follow. There are a few other things. Ify you do not start within 12 months of you being granted a variance, then the variance disappears. You) have to start within 12 months. Your mic, turn on your mic. Mr. Carabin: I don't know how to do that. Tony Scaramozzi: We'll speak loud. Mr. Carabin: I can start immediately. Tony Scaramozzi: Thank you. The applicant says that he could start immediately, sO that's not an issue for him, All right. Is there discussion over the motion to allow for this incursion into the buffer, the RPA into a hundred square feet? Can I ask if you can determine the impact across that 155, like how many beams would you, or you pushing something into the ground, can you, just Casey: How are y'all doing? So I guess it would mainly depend on the actual structure design that he goes with. I mean, if he did this as like a normal, excuse me, like a normal garage or could bea footer dug fora a concrete wall to bes set on fort the garage, orl I guess he could bel building like aj pole barn design where they just come in and pour a concrete slab down for the structure, So it'd be one Tony Scaramozzi: Well it sounds a little like you have haven't planned the garage. describe the apparatus? That would be açross the RPA. of the two most likely. Does that answer your question? Mr. Carabin: Oh, it is aj pole mark. I'm sorry. Tony Scaramozzi: All right. Casey: Yes. Soi it would be, yeah. Tony Scaramozzi: So there would be pilings across into the RPA area? Casey: Yes. Tony Scaramozzi: Probably three, and that's this kind ofimpact at each point. All right. Can) L... That's fine. Can I ask the county, Mr. Smolnik? The challenge before us is that we recognize it's 01/09/25 Page 11 of27 King Georgc Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 crossing the barrier for us to: figure that out reasonably, wel have to understand what we think the impact might be. Is it a small impact, al larger impact? These are things for us to work through, but inc order for us to approve or disapprove, if we were to approve with a constraint, could a constraint be that once we've. approved it, so you're working with the applicant to minimize thei impact into the RPA and he presents to you something that you could work with, or you need something from them to ensure: minimization ofi impact. Is there something in there that if we end it tonight, that you Matt Smolnik: I guess my question for the applicant is what's presented to thel BZA tonight? Will this be submitted? He will need to obtain a building permit for the structure. I guess my question is, the detailed plan that is shown before you tonight, is that what will be accompanying his building permit application? Because we're gonna have to review something concrete to approve it, and then we will be going out there probably every week, week and al half, maybe two weeks for inspections to ensure compliance with said drawing. So I just wanna... So that's what we're gonna need. SoI just wanna make sure that what is shown here, any, Iknow there's been a lot oft talk about plantings, mitigation, all that, Will that be part oft the building permit submittal that we can review and ensure Clark Lemming: Ift there's an approval from the board, the constraints will follow that approval. Tony Scaramozzi: Okay. Thank you. Is there other discussion. There being no discussion... Speaker 9: We may have some more information. Specificity of the plans that you submitted for Tony Scaramozzi: Having to do with the kinds of things the applicant will do to minimize impact Clark Lemming: Before this exercise began, It think the board realizes that they did apply fora building permit and was denied. So there were some very specific plans that were developed at that time thinking they would be going ahead with the construction, and it wasn't turned down 'cause of the lack of specificity of the plans. Soll believe that that level is out there and was taken to the county last time around. So as far as something that can be monitored, al building code is subject to could finish? conformity in the field asi it's being constructed? Meet what you) just said. the last building permit. Does that... ora account for that through other means? particular rulcs and regulations, just like anything else. Yeah. Tony Scaramozzi: Exactly. You still have to meet the building codes, etcetera. administrator can come up with something. There's thel building code. Clark Lemming: Ofcourse. And that may! be the way to! handle it, rather than seeing ift the county Tony Scaramozzi: I don't think that's appropriate. That's not what we were. asking. It was simply... Hel knows the rules. We don't for al building permit, but if we granted a variance, by the way, 'cause there isn't much to talk about. I wrote this and it's a very interesting statement to me. In the exception, relief talks to the minimum necessary. I wanted toj point that out 'cause that may help us determine whether we think this is reasonable or unreasonable. And then the variance talks to isi ita reasonable incursion or is it not? So we can add. A and B and see if we come up with a C. Clark Lemming: Okay. 01/09/25 Page 12 of27 King Gcorge Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 Tony Scaramozzi: Right. So... Clark Lemming: Is that all you need on the building permit? Tony Scaramozzi: I really need, and it's in thei first meeting, the discussion of all the things that they said they will do tol keep the property. Clark Lemming: You mean mitigation? Tony Scaramozzi: Yeah. Mitigation. That's before you all. Clark Lemming: Okay. Well, let's... 'Cause that is. Yeah. He can, that's all detailed on the plan. Tony Scaramozzi: Right. And I'm addressing that specifically. We have to know what they are. Now we. know they're in writing, SO we could apply those as constraints if we grant a variance. Clark Lemming: And they're right there on the plan. And there's a, I think they brought a summary oft that tonight anyway, in case you needed it. But the mitigation of course goes to the impervious surface or the water quality that could be affected byt this structure. So the mitigation devices, which are. mainly plantings, are put there in order to in this case, I think eliminate completely any measurable impact from this structure. Tony Scaramozzi: All right. Clark Lemming: You wanna see... You want us to tell you exactly what they are? Tony Scaramozzi: Well let me finish the process. I was al little out of process. Is there a second to the motion made to approve this variance? Trische Moliner: Second motion. Tony Scaramozzi: There's a second. All right. And the discussion would follow, but I'l start with... Matt Smolnik: For the record, staff has not reviewed this plan for 100% conformity with all regulations, as there is no building permit submitted. This has been a hearing through thel BZA. So what is submitted to you tonight, I wanna make sure that it's clear that if there are deficiencies on the plan that's submitted to you tonight, they will need to be brought up to the minimum standards oft the county in order to issue aj permit. So what's before you tonight we did not review it in detail as we would al building plan. We werel here simply fora variance, sO Ijust want that on the record that I don't want the applicant should a variance be approved that thisi is all they have to do. Ift there are deficiencies here, they will have to be corrected to meet the minimum standards. Clark Lemming: I'm: sorry. Trische Mollner: That's a separate issue, right? Tony Scaramozzi: They can't hear you. Trische Mollner: That's a separate issue, right? 01/09/25 Page 13 of27 King Gcorge Board ofZoning Appcals 11-06-2024 Tony Scaramozzi: It is, but it influence. It can influence us. But I was about to ask you, is that any different than anyone else coming before you? They have to: meet the standards. I don't know why they didn't meet the standard previously, but ifit! had anything to do with the RPA, this would null that, if we agree. All right. Ist there other discussion? Wel have a... Sorry, itj just went away. Well,a motion. Thank you. Wel have ai motion and wel have as second. We can continue with discussion. Is there any other discussion? Trische Mollner: Why was the building permit denied? Tony Scaramozzi: You have to keep that close for you to speak clearly. Trische Mollner: Why was the building permit denied? Speaker 5: The building permit was denied 'cause it fell within the a 1001 foot buffer. Trische Mollner: So thel RPA was. Speaker 5: Yes. It was the reason fort the denial. Yes. Speaker 5: That is what was stated in the letter? Yes. Trische Mollner: It had nothing to do with the structure. It was the RPA? Trische Mollner: Okay. So at this point we do not know if there's any issue with the building. Tony Scaramozzi: Plan. Trische Mollner: The plan. Speaker 5: Not that we are aware of. Trische Mollner: Okay. Tony Scaramozzi: But if there is, you have to meet the standard. Speaker 5: That can be addressed. we set the clock, the timer. Tony Scaramozzi: All right, any other discussion? One thing you taught me tonight is make sure Mr. Carabin: I looked at your bylaws. Id didn't see anything. Tony Scaramozzi: 10 minutes. All right, well let's have a vote. All those in favor of passing of variance, that would allow 155 square foot incursion into the RPA as designated by this drawing please raise your hand and say aye. Mark Varney: Aye. Tony Scaramozzi: Raise your hand and say aye. 01/09/25 Page 14 of27 King George Board ofZoning Appcals 11-06-2024 Trische Mollner: Aye. Speaker 9: Aye. Tony Scaramozzi: Chair votesaye. The constraints will need tol be detailed, itemized and followed. So all that that you did previous. Well, I'mj just saying they're still in involved, they're still part of the case before you. Ist there anything you'd like to tell us about going forward? Is there additional Matt Smolnik: Ifthel board finds with specificity each oft the elements oft the variance on the Tony Scaramozzi: All right. Sol think he just said ifs you have that with you, that you should list information needed to provide meat to the matter for further review? record, that is appropriate. them well before. The mitigations that said it in the beginning. Is that what? Matt Smolnik: No. Tony Scaramozzi: You meant the criteria. Matt Smolnik: The BZA needs to make the findings that all of the variance criteria are satisfied, Tony Scaramozzi: The five criteria. Right. Iread one criteria that drives us. Just one, not five. There are five, but one isa affecting us here, and that is whether or not the board of zoning appeals has found or defined adequately what reasonable represents. Soi is that sufficient that we think 155 square feet incursion with mitigations put inj place as reasonable, is that enough? Matt Smolnik: There's the five additional criteria that are: required to be met. There's the threshold criteria ofi reasonableness, and then there's the five criteria about that Mr. Lemming went over. Clarkl Lemming: All right. Can you specify them please? Do you have them?ld can... Whichever Matt Smolnik: I am reading from thel King George County standards fort the variance written out. The property interest for which the variance is being requested was acquired in good faith and any hardship was not created by the applicant for the variance. That's one. Two, the granting oft the variance will not be of substantial detriments to adjacent property and nearby properties in the proximity of that geographical area. Three, that such condition or situation of the property, concerned is not of sO general or recurring a nature that it could be resolved with an amendment to this ordinance. Four, the granting of the variance does not result in a use that is not otherwise permitted on such property or a change in the zoning classification of thej property. And five, the relief or remedy sought by the variance application is not available through a special exception process that is authorized in the ordinance pursuant to subdivision six of the Code of Virginia section 15.2-2309 as amended ort the process for modification oft the: zoning ordinance pursuant to subdivision ai four of Code of Virginia section 15.2-2286 as amended at the time of the filing of the Tony Scaramozzi: We probably should have voted on each one individually. However, what we specifically. Those findings need to be made: specifically for the record. way: you wanna go. I agree. I agree with) your counsel, but... variance application. 01/09/25 Page 15 of27 King George Board ofZoning Appcals 11-06-2024 have are the five on the fifth. Well, let me back up. There's aj philosophy. Ify you wanna make change occur and there are plans inj place, do you change the plan or do you make changes and plans will follow?I It's sort of a question of what comes first. Ift there's ai rule, and you don't wanna follow that rule, the outcome should not be that we violate the rule, we should change the rule first. Idon't think that since we have a vote here that we'll still discuss the five, but the fifth, we havea vote here that that says incursion across the RPA is reasonable. And so revising the plan, revising the: zoning, revising the RPA does not seem necessary. It's a one-on-one situation. It's one question, one answer. There are those out there that might consider that, that puts us in aj place where a lot of appeals come forward, but they have to be very specific. Theyl have to be very close to the mark. What'si incredibly hard given this one to come close to and come through with an appeal. Tony Scaramozzi: All right. Was the property acquired in good.. You owni it. In good faith, you acquired it, you understood what you were acquiring, and you agree. Okay. Granting this would create no substantial hardship on others. It's not general. The problem is not general enough to warrant a modification to the Chesapeake Bayl Preservation Act, the: zoning ordinance, the RPA or thel Board of Zoning appeals edicts. Have I missed anything? Clark Lemming: Two more. Tony Scaramozzi: Go ahead. Clark Lemming: The variance is not created. Use not permitted under the ordinance oft the Tony Scaramozzi: Use not permitted. Okay. Iti is by... Iti is permitted ifwe've granted the variance. Clark Lemming: Yes, that's true, but it's not a new use. That's the point I think. And then the last onei is, relief is not available through a special exception process. And you may recall it under the ordinance, there are a number of uses that may be attained in aj particular zoning district through a Tony Scaramozzi: Right, 'cause ifit was not within the RPA, it would just be a simple fact of property. Next. special exception. But that's, there's nothing like that for this. building your barn. Clark Lemming: That's right. Tony Scaramozzi: All right. Clark Lemming: And ifI could back upj just a minute, the first one has as second prong toi it. Any hardship was not created by the applicant and I talked about that. Tony Scaramozzi: Oh, right. Iremember that. Clark Lemming: So I think aj particular finding on that would be helpful too. Tony Scaramozzi: Do we know of any particular hardship that you think the applicant would be Clark Lemming: Well, is it self-imposed? Is there a self-imposed hardship? Fori instance, the imposing on elsewhere? 01/09/25 Page 16of27 King Gcoryc Board ofZoning Appeals LI-06-2024 classic example is Ibuild a house across the setback and thenIc come tot the BZA: and say, can I have avariance for that setback incursion? And BZA comes back and says, no, you built the house, you created this. So that, I think is the classic example oft that. Tony Scaramozzi: All right. I'ms sure you remember. ClarkLemming: I also point out that the ordinance, the statute: now says) you shall grant the variance if you find these things. So very different from the prior code section cover endurances, as Tony Scaramozzi: Right. All right. Well, from whereIs sit, unless you disagree here on the board,I don't find anything in this that we've violated. Sol I think we've met the five, we detailed our answer toe each ofthe five and we can figure that out in the minutes, specify this one was said, this was said, this was said. Is that sufficient? Matt Smolnik: Yes. had committed to previously? Clark Lemming: Mitigation devices? Tony Scaramozzi: Yes. Tony Scaramozzi: All right, thank you. Now, do you have that listing of the mitigations that you Clark Lemming: Casey, you're up again. Can you walk them through the mitigation planting? Tony Scaramozzi: And you'll need to submit that to thei minutes and the county for their Casey: Yes. Sot the mitigation and the stormwater management side of things that are presented on this plan. And I briefly discussed it in the prior meeting, but it is all calculated based on their overall disturbance inside oft the buffer. For every 400: square foot, there is one canopy tree, two understory trees, and three small shrubs. And per our plan here, we end up with 1,590 square foot of! land Clark Lemming: Excuse, let's put that. Is that taken into account for reduced size of the structure? Casey: Yes, this is alluding to version number three here that they have voted on it. Yeah, sO 1590 square foot oft total disturbance, in which case comes out to about 3.98, divided by 400. So four units are. required per every 400 square foot. And those would be those tree symbols you see by the bufferarea, the 50-foot buffer, and these small shrubs that are up against the northeastern side oft the Casey: Yes. monitoring. disturbance proposed which comes out to about... building to be on the RPA side. Tony Scaramozzi: All right. Casey: And then the other part oft this would be the stormwater management, which would be the two flow wells that are called out that will be capturing rooftop discharge and treating it in that BMP device. 01/09/25 Page 17of27 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 Tony Scaramozzi: So that number you said is from all that inside, that is the limits of disturbance. Casey: Yes, sir. Tony Scaramozzi: All right. Casey: Yeah, and that's basically, it's drawn here where there's about a 10-foot area around the Tony Scaramozzi: The number is 1590 square feet. But that's where it is. It's right there. Clark Lemming: Tell them where this all comes from, where you get the, make sure they Casey: Oh, yeah. And as far as the mitigation and the stormwater management, it comes from DEQ guidelines and regulations, which the mitigation would be from the Riparian Buffers Manual. That's for the plantings and restoration. And then thes stormwater stuff is based off of which you will find on sheet three oft this page, using the Virginia runoff reduction method for stormwater management Tony Scaramozzi: So do you understand, Mr. Carabin or his representative, that those mitigations are now constraints that you have to complete because this variance was granted? structure that we consider to be disturbed. Casey: Yes, sir. understand that this is coming from. that we are required to follow through DEQ. Clark Lemming: You can make that a condition. Tony Scaramozzi: Iti isa a condition. Speaker 9: In all fairness, Mr. Chairman, you all voted and didn't make it a condition. Mr. Lemming's right about that. But I think what Mr. Smolnik was saying was they've got to meet the minimum standards regardless. And we don't know if that meets the minimum standards 'cause they've not reviewed it. Ifyou all wanted to impose conditions, with all duei respect, probably could reconsider your vote. You could probably make your findings before you voted, impose any conditions, and perhaps counsel could help you with ai motion that did all that ify you all went fine. But you've already done it without conditions. Tony Scaramozzi: Good. Good advice. Clark Lemming: You went through the criteria after the vote. Tony Scaramozzi: Anybody here feel like moving that wel back away from the vote we've taken and the article set forth the motion. That's a good question. Can we move? Mark Varney: I think that would be a good idea to rescind and redo it. Tony Scaramozzi: So she asked if we could just make a motion to add those conditions. Mark Varney: We've already accepted it. 01/09/25 Page 18 of27 King Gcorge Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 Tony Scaramozzi: Without conditions. Mark Varney: Without the conditions. seconded and voted on. Tony Scaramozzi: She's asking ifs she can make ai motion to add conditions. And then it would be Mark Varney: No, because the thing has already been accepted. I recommend ify you want to add conditions, and for the clarity of the record and thei integrity of thej process, it is a good idea to doi it again in. Trische Mollner: [1:08:44.7] Casey: Ij just wanted to clarify, maybe this will make things a little easier. Upon the approval, to make things clear, that would be for the 155 square foot encroachment and for the 1,590 square foot of land disturbance as part oft the approval of the variance here. And all of the stormwater stuff and all the mitigation stuffi is something that for this type of project would be required throughout the county process anyways. And so really the main question would be, or the main thing going forward is that if we agree on the encroachment, then the review of all the other stuff will be part of Tony Scaramozzi: All right. I understood what you said, but I'm looking at the drawing, and the drawing shows those things. This drawing is what we approved of variance on it. Clark Lemming: Ms. Chairman, he's right about that under the law. I don't think there's any discrepancy about that. And we can have our engineers speak to that if youl have questions, Ms. Farooqi. I guess what I was: suggesting sometimes beyond what the minimum standards are, some BZA say we want you toj put ai rain barrel on each corner of the roof' 'cause the water's shedding off into the RPA or we want you to use... I hate to say this, porous concrete or some, there. are other conditions you could impose as a result of granting a variance, but they will require the minimum standards for planting and mitigation for the disturbance that will occur both in the construction and thei incursion into it. And the only thing I was: suggesting was if you wanted to do that, and I think your counsel is right, you've got to unwind and start all over again and make your findings, impose the building permit process. your additional conditions, and then vote. Tony Scaramozzi: If we wanted to do what? Clark Lemming: Impose additional conditions. Tony Scaramozzi: Additional... Clark Lemming: Yes, sir. Tony Scaramozzi: Conditions. ClarkLemming: They're gonna require all those plantings that the young man showed you all on the plans, they're gonna require that and potentially more, depending upon what meets the minimum standards. 01/09/25 Page 19 of27 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 Tony Scaramozzi: Does the board think we need to impose additional standards? That's the Mark Varney:Ib believe what I heard from counsel is a recommendation to renew or toj pull this back, go through the criteria as part ofthe process and document it as well as capture conditions and then redo the vote. That's the best way to ensure that everything is donej properly. The record is preserved and on appeal it would be if an appeal happens, right. That just makes everything holistic and puts a nice wrapper on it. Soi ifit does have to procced to the next level, then we've done our discussion. Additional conditions is what I meant to say. Go ahead. due diligence and properly. Clark Lemming: Correct. Mark Varney: Okay. I'd like to make a motion that we: revisit our vote, pull it back and discuss the criteria. Matt Smolnik: It'samotion to rescind. Mark Varney: Resend. Okay. Thank you. That's the words I wanna use. Motion to rescind. Tony Scaramozzi: So the motion is simply a motion to rescind the previous, original motion. No set purpose. I'ms sorry, what. Trische Mollner: Do we have to. S?: You have to put this up this close. Trische Mollner: Do we have to discuss it? Tony Scaramozzi: Is there as second? Trische Mollner: I second it. Tony Scaramozzi: Then we have to discuss it. Well, there's opportunity to discuss it. We don't Trische Mollner: All right. So what are the words that we: need from the lawyers? Tony Scaramozzi: Well, I1 have a question. What additional constraints would we. recommend imposing? We already have a set of conditions that must be met. What are the conditional have to. conditions we would consider them having to follow in this case? Mark Varney: I think they were already outlined. Trische Mollner: I'm not sure, but. Tony Scaramozzi: I can't hear you, Mark. Mark Varney: I was under the impression that we. had already outlined all those conditions. Tony Scaramozzi: And Senator Stewart outlined to us, It think that the conditions, they're not 01/09/25 Page 20 of27 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 conditions, but they're simply situational that must ber met. And you'll get that done through the county, not through us. Sol I'm asking again, what are the additional conditions? Trische Mollner: I was under thei impression that we didn't say it correctly. Tony Scaramozzi: Do you feel that's the case? Trische Mollner: We didn't have correct words to ençompass what we wanted to say to get it alli in Matt Smolnik: I do think it would bej prudent to make the findings in advance of adopting the motion. There isa also, in my opinion, ambiguity int the record as to what conditions, if any, beyond the standard requirements for building permits and sO on have been imposed by the board. I think it Tony Scaramozzi: Any further discussion? All those in favor? Rescinding the original motion. there. would be prudent to make those explicit and clear. Raise your hand and say aye. Mark Varney: Aye. Speaker 9: Aye. Trische Mollner: Aye. would like toj put forth? Tony Scaramozzi: Chair votes may. Motion passes. Is there now a revised motion that someone Clark Lemming: Asking for any additional conditions?. I didn't want to... I was just suggesting in and as much on their behalf as anybody's, 'cause It's not the county. I'm worried about attacking this. It could be a neighbor or somebody else, but I think your council's right. You need to make your findings first and then vote to approve this. And you may wanna, just hold off and let him help you with that motion. Just a suggestion is all, then you got a good record and I'm not sure it's gonna bes SO. Tony Scaramozzi: All right. So what might the wording be to be clear? Matt Smolnik: A motion to make findings, and then we could dot the five findings that we spelled out earlier. And you can adopt the findings. Once the findings are adopted, then you can move to grant the variance as has been submitted and discussed. Mark Varney: And the second part would be a second motion, right? Matt Smolnik: Correct. Yes. that. And then what? Tony Scaramozzi: All right. I have a motion, I'm talking to the attorney. I mean as an example, I have theoretically we need to make a motion to answer to the five constructs and our position on Matt Smolnik: And then a second motion to grant the variance. 01/09/25 Page 21 of27 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 Tony Scaramozzi: Oh, all this is about the five, not about mitigations and such. Matt Smolnik: Ifthere are additional conditions you could make that as part of adopt the variance orwith these conditions or as part of your findings in terms oft thei five criteria. Impose the conditions that, but I think there needs to bet thei initial decision whether to the discussion about Tony Scaramozzi: All right. So do we, does the board fecl that there should be additional whether to have it in the additional conditions in the first place. conditions imposed. And if so, make ai motion to state that. Trische Mollner: Beyond what's on here. Tony Scaramozzi: Correct. Trische Mollner": I doi not. Tony Scaramozzi: Anyone else? She said she does not. Speaker 9: Does not. Well, I didn't hear. Tony Scaramozzi: Feel the need for any additional conditions to impose upon this applicant that was not already indicated in the diagram before you. Speaker 9: Iagree with that. Tony Scaramozzi: You agree with her? There are. none. Speaker 9: Yes. Tony Scaramozzi: Okay. Mark? Bob, Bob? site plan. Resubmit the permit. Mark Varney: Yeah. Agree. I agree as well. I'm not tracking any additional conditions beyond the Trische Mollner: They're gonna turn in their plans and have them assess. Mark Varney: And that's all part of the normal process. Trische Mollner: To get their building permit. And that's. Tony Scaramozzi: We're not saying they're conditions. Clark Lemming: I'm sony Mr. Chairman, what's on that side plan, they're not conditions. Clark Lemming: Okay. I misunderstood. I thought you said anything beyond. Tony Scaramozzi: I'm asking if there additional, are there conditions that they want toi impose that go beyond what we see before us? Whether you call them conditions or something clse, what's in print? They're being none. We're gonna need al little help. So there being none. I'm gonna ask fora motion to address these findings specifically. And the help we need from you is a one by one 01/09/25 Page 22 of27 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 iteration of what that is or give it to me, whichever the case. Or whoever would like to make the motion, All right, sO we. have these conditions and in order to grant a variance, wel have tos show that strict application oft terms with the ordinance would not unreasonably restrict the utilization oft the property. That the granting oft the variance would alleviate al hardship due to aj physical condition relating to thej property or its improvements at the time effective date of the ordinance. Keep that in mind. And those conditions are, and the property interest for which the variance is being requested was acquired in good faith and any hardship was not created by the applicant for the variance. Tony Scaramozzi: The granting of the variance will not be of substantial detriment to adjacent property and nearby properties in the proximity oft that geographical area. These are findings that wei must make in order to approve this variance. That such condition or situation of the property concerned is not of sO general ofi recurring a1 nature thati it could be resolved with an amendment to this ordinance. The granting of the variance does not result in use that is not otherwise permitted on such property or change in the: zoning classification oft thej property. And the relief or remedy sought by the variance application is not available through a special exception process authorized in the ordinance pursuant to: subdivision six oft the code of Virginia 15.2-2309 as amended or the process for modification is the zoning ordinance pursuant to subdivision A alpha 4, of the code of Virginia 15.2-2286 as amended at the time of the filing of the variance application. So here's what I would suggest. Just to be clear, when you make a motion then we will restate these five and that's what we'll be determining this variance on. Soi is there a motion then? No, that's not correct. We don't need a motion now. Wei need a statement. Was there a motion? I'm sorry, I forgot what, did we make a motion? Matt Smolnik: You need to make the findings. Tony Scaramozzi: All right so these would be okay pursuant to the code of Virginia 15.2-2309 parenthesis 2 as amended it shall be granted ift the evidence shows that the strict applications of term of the ordinance would unrcasonably restrict utilization of the property. Do we agree that this is not an unreasonable restriction on the usability utilization oft the property? Any disagreement? Robert Vanatta: Read that last sentence again. Tony Scaramozzi: I'ms sory what? Robert Vanatta: Read that last sentence again. Tony Scaramozzi: A variance shall be granted sO this is in evidence shown that the strict application of the terms of the ordinance would unreasonably restrict the utilization oft the property. Do we: feel that voting on this in thej positive would unreasonably restrict the utilization oft the Matt Smolnik: It think the correct way to read that is does the strict application result in an unreasonable restriction on the applicant's use?I don't have the words in front of me but that's how property. itshould be read. Tony Scaramozzi: And what do we need to do to do that? Vote? Matt Smolnik: You need to make that finding. And when you adopt the or when you grant the variance that's when we vote. 01/09/25 Page 23 of27 King Georye Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 Tony Scaramozzi: Okay that's where the difficulty comes in isi in the language. Soi it's a function of, we find... This is as statement. I'mi not saying it's my position it's as statement that we: find. Do we find that the application oft the ordinance would unreasonably restrict the use oft the property?. AndI would project from the board's silence that we do not find that this creates an unreasonable.. You see that's my problem is do we need a vote? At what point do we vote? [laughter] These are. just Matt Smolnik: These are. just findings. Ify you would like to vote on the findings all right you can findings. have that. Tony Scaramozzi: All right. Mark Varney: We'll vote at the end right? Tony Scaramozzi: All right sO I'm: saying then that we're finding that there's no evidence to indicate that the strict application or terms of the ordinance would unreasonably restrict the use of thej property given the variance we would grant or that the granting of the variance would alleviatea hardship. We do not find that to be the case. Trische Mollner: Does he have it backwards? Matt Smolnik: I still think you have it backwards. [laughter] Trische Mollner: Does hel have it backwards? Tony Scaramozzi: Yeah that's what he said. Yes. Trische Moliner: Okay. Tony Scaramozzi: So how about IJ just say that we: find that pursuant to the code of Virginia 15.2- 2309 parenthesis 2 as amended. We find throughout this and T'l reread them, I don't even know how to answer the first part oft that paragraph. Wei find there's no evidence granted. And I know Matt Smolnik: You would say we: find the evidence shows that the strict application oftheterms of the ordinance would unreasonably restrict the utilization of the property or that the granting of the Tony Scaramozzi: All right sO I'mj projecting that we find that strict app... Go ahead. Matt Smolnik: Yeah we find that the strict application of the terms projected... Tony Scaramozzi: We find that the strict application oft the terms projected in code of Virginia 15.2-2309 in parenthesis 21 that the strict application oft the terms of the ordinance would unreasonably restrict the utilization oft the property or that granting of the variance would alleviate hardship due to aj physical condition relating to the property or its improvements at the time oft the effective date oft the ordinance. And SO on that second half it would be we are finding that granting of the variance is immaterial it won't affect it doesn't project al hardship. Its should be two sentences. Matt Smolnik: So on the second one you would find that granting the variance would alleviate a some English but this one's a little hard. variance would alleviate a hardship due to aj physical condition. 01/09/25 Page 24 of27 King George Board ofZoning Appcals 11-06-2024 hardship due to a physical condition. that? How do we even know? Tony Scaramozzi: Ori itsi improvement at the time of the date of the ordinançe. How do we answer Matt Smolnik: Because it's an or you can just find first part. Tony Scaramozzi: All right. So on the first part we: find that evidence shows the strict application of the terms of the ordinance would unreasonably restrict the utilization oft the property. We find that the property interest for which the variance is being requested was acquired in good faith and any hardship was not created by the: application oft thet finding. We find that granting of the variance will not be substantial detriment to any adjacent property and nearby properties in thej proximity of that geographical area. We find that such condition or situation of the property concerned is not of so general or recurring in nature that it could be resolved with an amendment to this ordinance. We find that granting of the variance does not result in a use that is not otherwise permitted 0n1 such property or change in the zoning classification ofthe property. And wei find that the relief of remedy sought by the variance application is not available through a special exception process that is authorized in the ordinance pursuant to subdivision six of the code of Virginia 15.2-2309 as Tony Scaramozzi: Well there's an or. We find that the process for modification oft this zoning ordinance pursuant to subdivision four of code of Virginia 15.2-2286 as amended at the time of granting of the variance application. Given those findings do we have a motion to grant an incursion as described here 155 square foot incursion into the RPA?: Do we: find we: require a motion to vote amended or not as amended. on allowing that incursion to take place? Speaker 9: I would like to make that motion. Robert Vanatta: I sO move. Tony Scaramozzi: Is there a second? Trische Mollner: Is second. Tony Scaramozzi: Is there a discussion by the board? Finding no discussion. We'll takea vote those in favor of the motion. Raise your hand and say aye. Mark Varney: Aye. Speaker 9: Aye. Trische Mollner: Aye. Tony Scaramozzi: Chair votes aye. Motion carries. Trische Mollner: Okay. Now what's the second motion that we're supposed to make? Matt Smolnik: Because the findings were already made. There's no second motion that needs to be done. 01/09/25 Page 25 of27 King George Board ofZoning Appcals 11-06-2024 Tony Scaramozzi: All right. Does that complete the proceedings for this application? Matt Smolnik: Yes. Tony Scaramozzi: Thank you. All right. II have a discussion of new business. Ms. Tuttle is there a Ms. Tuttle: That would be up to our legal representation who is out of the office until that time. way to get us to the next meeting earlier than March? [laughter] Tony Scaramozzi: All right. Thank you. Ms. Tuttle: The application of that case has agreed to meet in March. Tony Scaramozzi: All right. Well that helps. Ms. Tuttle: Okay. Tony Scaramozzi: Very nice of them. Thank them. All right. There being no other discussion on this application. Is there ai motion to end this meeting? Robert Vanatta: Make a motion. I make a motion to adjourn this meeting. Tony Scaramozzi: Is there a second? Mark Varney: I'd like to ask a question first. Tony Scaramozzi: Yeah. Open. Mark we we really... For process purposes we should havea second to open that up for discussion. Go ahead. Speak. I mean generally spcak. Mark Varney: Yeah. So I just wanna make sure in my own mind that we've finished this process so the family can go ahead and do what they want to do. Is that not correct or correct? Tony Scaramozzi: It is correct. Mark Varney: So okay. In that case I will second your motion. Tony Scaramozzi: In that case. What? Mark Varney: I second the motion that we: adjourn. Tony Scaramozzi: Oh okay. Is there a discussion. Given the motion has no discussion. Let's vote on the motion to adjourn. All those who agree or... Anyway. just raise your right hand and say aye. Mark Varney: Aye. Speaker 9: Aye. Tony Scaramozzi: Chair votes aye. Motion carries. We're finished here. 01/09/25 Page 26 of27 King George Board ofZoning Appeals 11-06-2024 Thank you for choosing Scribie.com Cross-check this transcript against the audio quickly and efficiently using our online Integrated Editor. Please visit thei following link and click the Check & Download button to start. itps/serbic.com/ley0aaads3494ce49Acc4908b3bbBc9b6c3le555e57Ica 01/09/25 Page 27 of27 Community Development BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS ANNUAL REPORT-2024 Annual Report Pursuant to Section 15.2-2221 (5),Code of Virginia, the King George County Board of Zoning Appeals (BZA) is forwarding thei following annual report of the BZA's activities to the King George County Board of Supervisors. 2023 Members MEMBERS Tony Scaramozzi- Chairman Kevin. J. Buckley Mark Varney Vacant Robert Vanatta Trische Mollner Walter Moss DISTRICT At-Large Dahlgren At-Large James Monroe James Madison Shiloh At-Large TERM OF OFFICE 05/31/2025 12/31/2026 09/20/2026 N/A 06/30/2027 12/31/2025 6/30/2027 Variance Requests: The BZAI heard one variance request. Number: Z-2024-00196 was heard on August 27th, October 2nd, and November 6th, 2024. Variance was granted with 4 ayes, 1 abstain, and: 1 absent. Appeal Requests: The BZA didi not hear or act on any appeal requests in 2024. KGVA Boaldw/jemngopal ARTICLEI AUTHORITY &NAMD The King George County Board ofZoning Appeals (BZA) was established in accordance with the provisions of Chapter 22,Article 2, $15.2-2308 ofthe Code of Virginia. ARTICLEIE PURPOSE On BOARD OFZ ZONING: APPEALS: SECTION 1. PURPOSE The purpose of the BZA shall be: A. Tol hear and decide appeals from any order, requirement, decision, or determination ofthe Zoning Administrator made intheadministration orenforcement ofthe Zoning Ordinance. B. To: authorize upon appeal or original application in specific cases such variance as defined in 15.2-2201, Code ofVirginia, as amended, from the terms oft the Ordinance as will notl be contraryto the public interest, when owing to special conditions al literal enforcement of the provisions will resultin unnecessary hardship, provided that thespirit tofthe Zoning Ordinance shall be observed and substantial justice done. C. Tol hear and decide any interpretation oft the Zoning Districtmap in casesofuncertainty of] location ofa district boundary. ARTICLCIII MEMBERSHIP KGVA Boaldajenhngo-paal SECTION 1. The membership ofthe BZA shall consist of seven members who arei residents ofl King A. shall be for fiveyears, except that the original appointments shall be made for staggered terms such that the term of at least one member expires each year. Appointments shall be made by the Circuit Court B. Should any member fail to attend three (3) consecutive regularly- scheduled meetings oraminimum of 50% of the regularly-scheduled BZAI meetings during a one-year period, the Chairman ofthe BZA,on amotion and a msburlyvaleoflememlens ofthe BZA,shall request that the member of the Board of Supervisors in whose district the member resides request the member's resignation. George County. The term ofoffice of Board members ofthe County. ARTICLEIV ORFICERS: SECTION 1. CHAIR, VICE CHAIR BSECRETARY Adopted January 2025 KGVA Boaldw/jenhngo-pal The BZAshall annually, at the first regular meeting, elect from its appointed members a Chair and Vice Chair whose terms shall be foroneyearoruntila: successor takes office. In the eventthe office of Chair becomes vacant, the Vice Chair automatically becomes Chair and the officeofVice Chair becomes vacant. The BZA shall then elect from its members a new Vice Chair. In the event the office of Chair shalll become vacantatatime when there is no Vice Chair, thel BZAshall elect from itsmembers bothac Chair and Vice Chair. The BZA shall designate a regular staff member to serve in addition tol his or her regular duties as Secretary of the BZA. The Secretary or a qualified alternate staff member shall attend all regular meetings and work sessions of the BZA, as well as the meetings of any special committee, if required, and shall record theproceedings ofs such meetings. SECTION: 2. DUTIES OFOFFICERS (a) The Chair shall be a member oft the BZA and shall: (b) (1) Preside at all hearings and meetings. (2) Beintormedimmediatelyolanyofical communication andi reportthes same at the next regular BZA's meeting. (3) Certify all minutes, and other documents as necessary, as true and correct copies. (4) Rule on all procedural questions (subject to a reversal by a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote oft the members present);and () Carry out other duties as assigned by theBoard of Supervisors. (c) The Vice Chair shall be a Member ofthe BZA and: shall: Adopted January 2025 KGVA Boaldajenhngo-paal (1) Serve as an aidei to the Chair. (2) Preside when the Chairi is absent orwhen called upon byt the Chair, with the full powers ofthe Chair. (3) Represent the Chair upon request. (4) Assist inj providingorientation to new. BZA: members. (5) Assume duties ofthe Charritnecessary due to resignation or death;and (6) Carry out other duties as assigned by thel BZA. (d) The Secretaryshal: (1) Record attendance at all meetings. (2) Record the minutes ofthel BZAmeetings. (3) Notify all members of all meetings. (4) Maintain a file of all official BZA records andreports. (5) suctlatyorcpandne addressed tothe Alspromplytammited to the Chairand/or other members as appropriate. (6) Prepare for publication all publicnotices: for BZA (7) atilepopetyommetsand adjacent property owners regardingappications for changes of zoning, conditional use permits and special public hearings;and exceptions. Adopted January 2025 KCVA Boalda/jenhngo-paal (€) The Staffi for thel BZAisnot: aj member and hasi no votingrightsb but shall bei responsible for: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. All correspondence oftheBZA; Notification to all members ofa allmeetings; File ofall official records and reports oft theBZA; Certification ofall maps, records and reports oftheBZA; Provide data relevant to requests foramendments toi the Certification ofmailings to all property owners concerned Zoning Ordinance witlhamendments. Advertisement: tof public hearings; and 0 Chair Pro Tem Where both the Chair and Vice Chair are absent from a hearing or meeting, the remaining members oft the Board shall elect a Chair Pro tem from among their own number by majorityvote. ARTICLEV CONDUCT OFTHE MEMBERS OFTHE BZA (a) Members ofthe BZA shall take such time as necessary to prepare themselves for hearings andmectings. (b) The BZA and its proceedings shall be governed by the general rules of parliamentary procedure (RohertsfulesofOnle, latest edition as revised from time to time) unless otherwise provided by these rules of procedure or applicable state law. (c) BZA members shall comply at all times with the Virginia State and Local Conflict of Interest Act (Code of Virginia section 2.2-3100. et. Seq., 1950, as Adopted January 2025 KGVA Boala4janngopals amended, hercinafter "the Act"). Each member must determine whether that member has a conflict of interest and how that member must respond (declaration, disqualification, etc.) prior tot taking any action on the matter giving rise to the potential conflict. Assistance and conflicts opinions may be obtained from the County Attorney or Commonwealth's Attorney who may also obtain opinions from the Attorney General. In the event that a Member is disqualified, s/he may take no action of any kind, ever, on the matter giving rise to the conflict. Ultimately, each Member must decide whether a conflicts exists. Avoiding the appearance ofi impropriety is just as important as avoiding actual conflicts. Therefore, a Member should disqualify him/herselfitthat Member feels that the citizen's confidence in the local government and/or its leaders will be compromised. ARTICLEVI MEETINGS REGULAR MEETINGS (Aorhm31522214: CodeofVirginia) SECTION 1. A. Organizational Meeting The Board shall hold an organizational meeting on the fourth Tuesday of each January fort the purpose of election of officers, setting the time, date, and location ofmeetings. B. Regular Meetings - Thel Board shall hold regular monthly meetings for theHearing of cases at 7:00 p.m. on the fourth Tuesday of each month unless no cases are pending, in which case no 6:30 ing will be held. Meetings shall be conducted in the Board Room of Adopted January 2025 KGVA Boald4/jenhngo-paa the Revercomb Building, unless otherwise advertised. SECTION 3. PUBLIC HEARINGS (As set forth in Va. Code15.2-2204) Public hearings are open to the public and citizens are encouraged to speak. The purpose of hearings ist to receive testimony from the public and members ofthe BZA are not expected to respond to questions. Response to questions shall be made at the discretion ofthe Chair. (a) Nolice of public hearing shall be provided in accordance with Va. Code $15.2-2204, and may be supplemented with additional notices as deemed appropriate by the BZA or staff. (b) Members of the public or their representatives wishing to address the BZA shall proceed to the appointed place, clearly state their names and addresses, and shall be subject to the following time limitations: ten (1o) minutes total for theapplicant and any ofi its representatives; three (3) minutes perindividual for all others. The Chair may allow additional time fors speakers. (c) Members of the BZA shall limit their comments to ensure public participation without BZA interference. Atthe completion ofeach presentation, members ofthe BZA shall have an opportunity to ask questions or clarify points made during the speaker's presentalion. (d) Written testimony may be submitted to the BZA either prior to or at the public hearing. Written comments should be submitted at least one (1) week prior tot the hearing in order to ensure distribution to the individual BZA members in time for prior review. The BZA may establish a time toreceive written testimony inaddition toorinli lieu of Adopted January 2025 KGVA Boahdw/jenhngo-paa public appearance. Such written testimony thus received shall become part oft the public record. (e) At the conclusion of the hearing on each item, the BZA shall proceed with its deliberation on that item and members shall have an additional opportunity for discussion, and then avote shall be taken. After discussion, upon request by two members of the BZA in cases where additional time for data gathering, analysis and/or further consideration is warranted, the Chair may defer final action until later in the meeting and then proceed to other agenda items. Continuing an item to another meeling shall only occur upon motion, second, and vote ofthel BZA properly made and the motion shall specify the date when the item will again be considered. SECTION 4. ORDEROFPUBLICHEARING (a) Sign-in forms shall be completed by persons wishing to speak, listing printed name, phone number, and address of person wishing to speak, and application number of the issue to be addressed. (b) Presentation by staffsummarizing the item. (c) Presentation byapplicant. (d) Testimony of citizens wishing to speak. (e) Concluding comments by applicant, if the Chair determines such are necessary; Questions by BZA members. (f) Concluding comments by staff,i ifthe Chair determines such arenecessary; Questions by BZA members. Adopted January 2025 KGVA Boald4/jenhngo-pal (g) Public hearing closed by Chair. (h) Discussion by BZA members. (i) Motion G) Roll Call Vote SECTION S. RECORD OFMEETINGS The BZA shall keep a record (minutes) ofa all ofits proceedings and this record shall be available for public inspection at the office of the Department of Community Development, King George County Administration Building, King George County, Virginia, during normal working hours. ARTIGLE VIL CONDUCT OR PERSONS BEFORETHE BOARD OF7 ZONINGA APPEALS (a) During all regular meetings ofthe BZA, thej public may be present and a specific time shall be reserved for receipt of public comments. At other times, the public shall remain silent unless specifically invited by the Chair to provide comment. (b) Comments should be addressed to the item before the BZA. Where a comment is irrelevant, inflammatory, prejudicial, orotherwise offensive, the Chair may instruct the BZA to disregard" the comment, which nevertheless remains in the public record. During all BZA proceedings, members ofthe public have the obligation toi remain in civil order. Any conduct that interferes witht thee equitable rights ofanother toj provide Adopted January 2025 KGVA Boal44jenhngo-pal comment orwhich interferes with a] proper execution ofBZA affairs may be ruled by the Chair as 'out-of-order" and the offending person be directed by the Chair to remain silent. Once having been SO directed, if a person persists in disruptive conduct, the Chair may entertain a motion to "eject" that individual from the BZA hearing or meeting. Where the person fails to comply with the successful motion to eject, the Chair may then call upon civil authority tophysically remove theindividual from the meeting place for the duration ofhearing or deliberation on that item ARTICLEVIITE VOTING SECTION 1. Virginia) QUORUM (As set forth in $15.2-2312, Code of A majority of the members shall constitute a quorum. The concurring vote of a majority of the membership ofthe BZA shall benecessary to reverse any order, requirement, decision or determination ofan administrative officer or to decide in favorofthe: applicant ona any matter upon which it is required toj pass under the King George County Zoning Ordinance or to effect any variance from the King George County Zoning Ordinance. Unless otherwise specified by the Chair, athis or her discretion, actions shall be by viva voice votewith the vote ofeach member recorded in theminutes. SECTION 2. LACK OF QUORUM Ifa quorum is not present at the time set for the meeting, the Chair or Chair Pro tern shall wait until there is a quorum. Ifno quorum is) presentafter: a reasonable time, and there appears to bei no prospect that a quorum will assemble, then the Chair or Chair Pro tern shall call the meeting to order, announce the absence ofa quorum, and entertain a motion to adjourn. Adopted January 2025 KGVA oaldajenhngo-paal SECTION 3. TIE VOTE i the event ofa lie vote, the motion shall havel been defeated. ARTICLEIX INSTRUMENIS AND, DOCUMENTSOR THE BOARDOFZONINGAPEALS The official instruments ofthe BZAarethe record ofnotice, the agenda, adopted resolutions, and the minutes ofhearings and meetings. Where the BZA provides advice to the legislative body or administrative agency, itd does SO by resolution. Any and allmaterials submitted to the BZA regarding an item shall be available for inspection by the public unless they are protected from disclosure by applicable provisions of the Code of Virginid. All notices, agendas, requests, agency or consultant letters or reports, citizen petitions, staff reports, minutes of hearings and meetings, and resolutions shall constitute the documents of the BZA and shall be made a matter of public record. ARTICLEX TRANSACTIONOF) BUSINESS SECTION 1. PARLIAMENTARYAUTHORITY Parliamentary procedure at BZA meetings shall begoverned by thei most recent edition of Robert's Rules ofOrder,Nerly Revised, asa applicable tob boards, except toi thee extent set out otherwise in these bylaws. Adopted January 2025 KCVA oaldajenhngo-paal SECTION 2. SUSPENSION OFRULES No rule of the BZA shall be suspended without the concurrence of three- fourths of the members present and such suspension shall be limited to the meeting then in progress. SECTION 3. AGENDA The activities at any regular meeting of the BZA shall bein accordance with a formal agenda. Such agenda shall be distributed toi the BZA and made available toi the public prior to each meeting. SECTION 4. ORDER OF BUSINESS (REGULAR MEETINGS) At regular meetings of the BZA, business shall be conducted in the following manner: Call to order and roll call Determination ofQuorum Public hearings Old business New business Adjournment Approval of minutes of thel last meeting(s) SECTION 5. AMENDMENIS TOAGENDA Agendas may be amended and/or items added or deleted from the agenda, by majority concurrence of the members. ARTICLEXIE SEVERABIEITYE Adopted January 2025 KGVA oald4/jenhngo-paa Should any article of the BZA bylaws be found to be illegal, the remaining articles shall remain in effect. ARTICLEXIIE MODITICATIONOFBYLAWS Modification ofthese Bylaws shall be approved by the BZAinregular session. Proposals for modification shall be submitted tothe BZA at a regular meeting and shall be scheduled for consideration and action at thei next regular meeting. Anaffirmative voteoftwo-thirds ofthe entire BZA shall be required tomodify the Bylaws. Chairman Date Adopted January 2025 KCVA oald4/jenngoppeal4 STANDARDS OF CONDUCT FOR MEMBERS OF THE KING GEORGE COUNTY BOARDOFZONINGAPPEALS Realizing that persons holding aj position ofp public trust are under constantobseryation by the media and all County residents, and further recognizing that maintaining the integrityand dignity of public office and confidencein airimstutausafgmement every member of the King George County Board of Supervisors does publicly commit collectively and individually to the following Standards of Conduct. 1. Avoid during public meetings and during the performance of public duties the use ofabusive, threatening orintimidating language or gestures directed at colleagues, citizens, or employees. 2. Tos strive sincerely to build better relationships with one: another and withi the County. Administrator, Constitutional Officers, and the elected and appointed Boards and Commissions of King George County. 3. Pay all taxes due to one's town or residence, county, state, ornational government. 4. Attend all regularly-schedhuled meetings oft the Board or committees to which you have been assigned, resigning whenever personal circumstances: preclude regularattendance. . - Avoid a private lifestyle that casts public doubt upon thei integrity and competence ofthe county government. 6. Offerc criticism of colleagues or county employees only in private meetings with appropriate individuals ori in closed sessions. RingGeoige Boal44jemhngofApal KCVA Boahaajenhngo-paal 7. Work to createa positiveemvironmentin publicmeetings where citizenswill feel comfortable in their role as observers and/or participants. 8. Tol listen carefully and maintain an attitude of courtesy and consideration toward all colleagues and staffduring all discussions and deliberations. 9. To emphasize planning, policy making and public relations rather than becominginvolved in the day to day managementoto departments or County administration. 10. To: set clear goals for the County Administrator and/or departments and agency heads andi toj provide financial resources tol help ensure the community is aware ofthese goals. 11. To: always be tolerant. Allowcitizens, employees, or colleagues sufficient opportunity toj present ttheir views. 12. To listen carefully and be respectful and attentive. Avoid comments, body language or distracting activity that conveys a message of disrespect for the presentations from citivens, County personnel, or colleagues. 13. Tol be concise. Avoid the practice oftaking more time to address an issue before thel body than necessary and essential for an adequate consideration ofthose matters being discussed by beingprepared, organized and clearin all public deliberations. 14. To abide by the King George County Code ofEthics and Standards of Conduct and further to provide appropriate mechanisms for disciplining members who violate the Code ofl Ethics and/or Standards of Conduct through the adoption of resolutions of disapproval citing thej provisions ofthe Code ofEthics or Standards ofConducto ofwhich the governing body determines a member has violated. 10459 Courthouse Drive, Suite 104 King George, VA 22485 Phone 540-775-7111 Fax 540-775-3139 KCVA oaldaljenhngo-paal We, the undersigned, dol hereby recognize thatholding public office is a public trust: and that the stewardship of the King George County Board of Supervisors and County services demands the highest level of professional, ethical and moral conduct. We therefore committoadherc to thel King Gcorge County Code of Ethicsand: Standardsof Conduct: atall times in our professional lives. Name Signature Date Chairman, Board ofz Zoning Appeals 10459 Courthouse Drive, Suite 104 King George, VA22485 Phone 540-775-7111 Fax 540-775-3139 GEORGE KING VIRGINIA KING GEORGE COUNTY BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS Meeting Date: January 28th, 2025 Subject: Duties of the Board of Zoning Appeals Zoning Appeals take the following Action: Action: The Department of Community Development Staff recommends that the Board of None Summary of InformationiThe Code of Virginia Section 15.2-2308 requires that every locality that has a Zoning Ordinance also has a Board of Zoning Appeals (BZA). The BZA shall Section 15.2-2309 grants and outlines the duties and powers of the BZA. Below is a brief description of the powers and duties of the BZA as granted by the Code of Virginia: consist of either five or seven residents of the locality. Summary ofl Information: The Code of Virginia Section 15.2-2308 requires that everyl localitythat has a Zoning Ordinance also have a Board of Zoning Appeals (BZA). The BZA shall consist of either Section 15.2-2309 grants and outlines the duties and powers of the BZA. Below is a brief five or seven residents of the locality. description of the powers and duties of the BZA as grant by the Code of VA: 1. To hear and decide appeals from any order, requirement, decision, or determination made by an administrative officer ini the administration or enforcement of this article or of any ordinance adopted pursuant thereto. The decision on such appeal shall be based on the board's judgment of whether the administrative officer was correct. The determination of the administrative officer shall be presumed tol be correct. 2. to grant upon appeal or original applicationinspeclric casesav variance as defined ins 15.2-2201, provided that the burden of proof shall be on the applicant for a variance to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that his application meets the standard for a variance as defined in S 15.2-2201 and the criteria set out int this section. 3. Tol hear and decide appeals from the decision oft the zoning administrator after notice and hearing as provided by S 15.2-2204. Legal Review XC Complete N/A KING GEORGE VIRGINIA 4. To hear and decide applications for interpretation of the district map where there is any uncertainty as to the location of a district boundary. [..] the board may interpret the map in such way as to carry out the intent and purpose of the ordinance for the particular section or districtin question. The board shallnot have the power to change substantially the locations of district boundaries as established by ordinance. 5. No provision of this section shall be construed as granting any board the power to rezone property or to base board decisions on the merits oft the purpose and intent of 6. To hear and decide applications for special exceptions as may be authorized in the ordinance. (The King George County Zoning Ordinance does not authorize the BZA to 7. Tor revoke a special exception previously granted by the board of zoning appealsi if the board determines that there has not been compliancewith the terms or conditions of 8. The board by resolution may fix a schedule of regular meetings, and may also fix the day or days to which any meeting shall be continued ift the chairman, or vice-chairman ift the chairmanis unable to act, finds and declares that weather or other conditions ares such thatitis hazardous for members to attend the meeting. Such finding shall be communicated to the members and the press as promptly as possible. local ordinances duly adopted by the governing body. decide on Special Exception Cases) the permit. Variances: Variances are defined in Section 15.2-2201 of the Code of VA as "a reasonable deviation from those provisions regulating the shape, size, or area of al lot or parcel of land or the size, height, area, bulk, or location of a building or structure when the strict application of the ordinance would unreasonably restrict the utilization of the property, and such need for a variance would not be shared generally by other properties, and provided such variance is not contrary to the purpose of the ordinance. It shall not include a change in use, which change shall Section 15.2-2309 of the Code of VA describes the process and criteria for granting a variance. Below is the criteria that the BZAI must consider when deciding on a variance case: Notwithstanding any other provision of law, general or special, a variance shall be granted ifthe evidence shows that the strict application of the terms of the ordinance would unreasonably restrict the utilization of the property or that the granting of the variance would alleviate a hardship due to aphysica/condition: relating to the property ori improvements thereon at the time of the effective date of the ordinance, or alleviate a hardship by granting a reasonable modification to a property or improvements thereon requested by, or on behalf of, a person with be accomplished by a rezoning or by a conditional zoning." ao disability, and @) the property interest for which the variance is being requested was acquired in good faith and any hardship was not created by the applicant for the variance; (i) the granting of the variance will not be of substantial detriment to adjacent property and nearby properties in the proximity of that geographical area; KING GEORGE VIRGINIA (iii) the condition or situation of the property concerned is not of SO general or recurring a nature as to make reasonably practicable the formulation ofa general (iv) the granting of the variance does not result inc au use that is not otherwise permitted on such property or a change in the zoning classification of the property; and (v) the reliefor remedy sought by the variance application is not available through a special exception process that is authorized in the ordinance pursuant to subdivision 6 ofs 15.2-2309 or the process for modification of a zoning ordinance pursuant to subdivision A4ofs 15.2-2286 at the time of the filing of the variance regulation to be adopted as an amendment to the ordinance; application. Attachments: 1. Section 15.2-2201 of the Code of VA 2. Section 15.2-2308 of the Code of VA 3. Section 15.2-2309 of the Code of VA 4. King George County Zoning Ordinance Division 3, Section 2-3-1 to2-3-3 Legal Review Attachments Complete X Yes X N/A No Code of Virginia Title 15.2. Counties, Cities and' Towns Subtitle II. Powers ofLocal Government Chapter 22. Planning, Subdivision ofLand and Zoning Article 1. General Provisions $ 15.2-2201. Definitions As used in this chapter, unless the context requires a different meaning: Affordable housing" means, as a guideline, housing that is affordable to households with incomes at or below the area median income, provided that the occupant pays no more than thirty percent ofl his gross income for gross housing costs, including utilities. For the purpose of administering affordable dwelling unit ordinances authorized by this chapter, local governments may establish individual definitions of affordable housing and affordable dwelling units including determination of the appropriate percent of area median income and percent of gross "Conditional zoning" means, as part of classifying land within a locality into areas and districts byl legislative action, the allowing of reasonable conditions governing the use of such property, such conditions being in addition to, or modification oft the regulations provided for a particular Development" means at tract of land developed or to be developed as aunit under single ownership or unified control which is tol be used for any business ori industrial purpose ori is to contain three or more residential dwelling units. The term development" shall not be construed to include. any tract ofland which will be principally devoted to agricultural production. Historic area" means an area containing one or more buildings or places in which historic events occurred or having special public value because of notable architectural, archaeological or other features relating to the cultural or artistic. heritage of the community, of such significance as to "Incentive zoning" means the use ofl bonuses ini the form ofi increased project density or other benefits to a developer ini return for the developer providing certain features, design elements, uses, services, or amenities desired by thel locality, including but not limited to, site design incorporating principles of new urbanism and traditional neighborhood development, environmentally. sustainable and energy-efficient building design, affordable housing creation and preservation, and historical preservation, as part of the development. "Local planning commission" means a municipal planning commission or a county planning "Military installation" means al base, camp, post, station, yard, center, homeport facility for any ship, or other activity under jurisdiction of the U.S. Department of Defense, including any leased facility, or any land or interest inl land owned by the Commonwealth and administered by the Adjutant General of Virginia or the Virginial Department of Military Affairs. "Military installation" does not include any facility used primarily for civil works, rivers and harbors projects, or flood "Mixed use development" means property that incorporates two or more different uses, and may income. zoning district or zone by the overall zoning ordinance. warrant conservation and preservation. commission. control projects. 5/13/2021 12:00:00 include a variety of! housing types, within a single development. "Official map" means a map of legally established and proposed public streets, waterways, and public areas adopted by al locality in accordance with the provisions of Article 4 (S 15.2-22336 et Planned unit development" means ai form of development characterized by unified site design fora a variety ofhousing types and densities, clustering ofbuildings, common open space, and a mix of building types and land uses in which project planning and density calculation are performed for the entire development rather than on an individual lot basis. "Planning district commission" means a regional planning agency chartered under the provisions "Plat" or "plat of subdivision" means the schematic representation ofl land divided or tol be divided and information in accordance with the provisions of SS 152-2241,15.2-2242, 15.2-2258 Preliminary subdivision plat" means thej proposed schematic representation of development or subdivision that establishes how the provisions of SS 15.2-2241 and 15.2-2242, and other "Resident curator" means aj person, firm, or corporation that leases or otherwise contracts to manage, preserve, maintain, operate, or reside in al historic property in accordance with the "Site plan" means thej proposal for a development or a: subdivision including all covenants, grants or easements and other conditions relating to use, location and bulk ofl buildings, density of development, common open space, public facilities and such otherinformation as required by the subdivision ordinance to which the proposed development or subdivision is subject. "Special exception" means a special use that is a use: not permitted in aj particular district except by a special use permit granted under the provisions of this chapter and any zoning ordinances "Street" means highway, street, avenue, boulevard, road, lane, alley, or any public way. Subdivision," unless otherwise defined in an ordinance adopted pursuant to S 15.2-2240, means the division of a parcel of land into three or more. lots or parcels ofl less than five acres each for thej purpose oftransfer of ownership or building development, or, ifa new: street isi involved in such division, any division of a parcel ofl land. The term includes resubdivision and, when appropriate tot the context, shall relate to the process of subdividing or to the land subdivided and solely for the purpose of recordation of any single division ofl land into twol lots or parcels, a plat of such division shall be submitted for approval in accordance with $ 15.2-2258. "Variance" means, in the application of a zoning ordinance, a reasonable deviation from those provisions regulating the shape, size, or area ofal lot or parcel of land or the size, height, area, bulk, or location of al building or structure when the strict application of the ordinance would unreasonably restrict the utilization of the property, and such need for a variance would not be shared generally by other properties, and provided such variancei is not contrary to the purpose of the ordinance. It shall not include a change in use, which change shall be accomplished bya seq.)hereof. ofc Chapter 42 (S 15.2-4200 et seq.) oft this title. 15.2-2262, and 15.2-2264, and other applicable statutes. applicable statutes willl be achieved. provisions ofs 15.2-2306 and other applicable statutes. adopted herewith. rezoning or by a conditional zoning. 2 5/13/2021 12:00:00 "Working waterfront" means an area or structure on, over, or adjacent toi navigable waters that provides access to the water and is used for water-dependent commercial, industrial, or governmental activities, including commercial and recreational fishing; tourism; aquaculture; boat and ship building, repair, and services; seafood processing and sales; transportation; "Working waterfront development area" means an area containing one or more working waterfronts having economic, cultural, orl historic public value of such significance as to warrant "Zoning" or "to: zone" means the process of classifying land within al localityi into areas and districts, such areas and districts being generally referred to as "zones," by legislative action and the prescribing and application in each area and district of regulations concerning building and structure designs, building and structure placement and uses to which land, buildings and Code 1950, S 15-961.3; 1962, C. 407, S 15.1-430; 1964, C. 547; 1966, C. 344; 1975, C. 641; 1976, C. 642; 1977, C. 566; 1978, C. 320; 1987, C. 8; 1989, C. 384; 1990, C. 685; 1993, C. 770; 1995, C. 603; 1997, C. 587;2008, CC. 635,718;2011, C. 237;2012, C. 554;2013, CC. 149,213;2015, C.597;2017,c. The chapters of the acts of assembly referenced in thel historical citation at the end of this section(s) may not constitute a comprehensive list of such chapters and may exclude chapters shipping; marine construction; and military activities. development and reparation. structures within such designated areas and districts may bej put. 216. whose provisions have expired. 5/13/2021 12:00:00 Code of Virginia Title 15.2. Counties, Cities and Towns Subtitle II. Powers ofLocal Government Chapter 22. Planning, Subdivision ofLand and Zoning Article 7. Zoning 3 15.2-2308. Boards of zoning appeals to be created; membership, organization, etc A. Every locality that has enacted or enacts a zoning ordinance pursuant to this chapter or prior enabling laws shall establish al board of zoning appeals that shall consist of either five or seven residents of the locality, ori in at town with aj population of 3,500 or less, either three, five, or seven: residents oft the locality, appointed by the circuit court for the locality. Boards of zoning appeals for a locality within the fifteenth or nineteenth judicial circuit may be appointed by the chief judge orl his designated judge or judges ini their respective circuit, upon concurrence of such locality. Their terms of office shall be for five years each except that original appointments shall be made for such terms that the term of one member shall expire each year. The secretary of the board shall notify the court at least thirty days in advance of the expiration of any term of office, and shall also notify the court promptly ifa any vacancy occurs. Appointments to fill vacancies shall be only for the unexpired portion of thet term. Members may be reappointed to succeed themselves. Members of the board shall hold no other public office in the locality except that one may be aj member oft the local planning commission, and any member may be appointed to serve as an officer of election as defined in S 24.2-101.. A member whose term expires shall continue to serve until his successor is appointed and qualifies. The circuit court for the City of Chesapeake and the Circuit Court for the City ofl Hampton shall appoint at least one but not more than three alternates tot the board of zoning appeals. At the request oft the local governing body, the circuit court for any other locality may appoint not more than three alternates to the board of zoning appeals. The qualifications, terms and compensation of alternate members shall be the same as those of regular members. A regular member when hel knows he will be absent from or will have to abstain from any application at ai meeting shall notify the chairman twenty-four hours prior to thei meeting of such fact. The chairman shall select an alternate to serve in the absent or abstaining member's place and the records of the board shall SO1 note. Such alternate member B. Localities may, by ordinances enacted in each jurisdiction, create aj joint board of zoning appeals that shall consist of two members appointed from among the residents of each participating jurisdiction by the circuit court: for each county or city, plus one member from the area atl large tol be appointed by the circuit court orj jointlyl by such courts ifmore than one, having jurisdiction int the area. Thet term of office ofe each member shall be five years except that oft the two members first appointed from eachj jurisdiction, the term of one shall be for two years and oft the other, four years. Vacancies shall bei filled for the unexpired terms. In other respects, joint boards of zoning appeals shall be governed by all other provisions oft this article. C. With the exception ofi its secretary and the alternates, the board shall elect from its own membership its officers who shall serve annual terms as such and may succeed themselves. The board may elect as its secretary either one ofi its members or a qualified individual who is not a member oft thel board, excluding the alternate members.. A secretarywhoi is not ai member oft the board shall not be entitled to vote on matters before thel board. Notwithstanding any other may vote on any application in which a regular member abstains. 5/13/2021 12:00:00 provision of law, general or special, for the conduct of anyl hearing, a quorum shalll be not less than a majority of all the members oft thel board and the board shall offer an equal amount oft time ina al hearing on the case to the applicant, appellant or other person aggrieved under $ 15.2-2314, and the staff of the local governing body. Except for matters governed by $ 15.2-2312, no action oft thel board shall be valid unless authorized by a majority vote of those present and voting. The board may make, alter and rescind rules and forms fori its procedures, consistent with ordinances ofthel locality and general laws oft the Commonwealth. The board shall keep a full publici record ofi its proceedings and shall submit a report ofi its activities to the governing body or bodies at D. Within the limits of funds appropriated by the governing body, thel board may employ or contract for secretaries, clerks, legal counsel, consultants, and other technical and clerical services. Members of thel board may: receive such compensation as may be authorized by the respective governing bodies. Any board member or alternate may be removed for: malfeasance, misfeasance or nonfeasance in office, or for other just cause, by the court that appointed him, E.N Notwithstanding any contrary provisions ofthis section, in the Cities of] Portsmouth and Virginia Beach, members oft the board shall be appointed by the governing body. The governing body shall also appoint at least one but not more than three alternates to thel board. Code 1950, SS 15-825, 15-850, 15-968.8; 1950, pp. 176, 489; 1952, C. 688; 1962, C. 407, ,$15.1- 494; 1975, C. 641; 1976, C. 642; 1977, C. 172; 1982, C. 3;1989, c.27;1992, C. 47; ;1997, cc. 570, 587; 1998, cc. 346, 520, 528;1999, C. 838;2002, Cc. 205, 545;2007, C. 813;2009, C. 734;2010, C.7 705; The chapters of the acts of assembly referenced in the historical citation at the end oft this section(s) may not constitute a comprehensive list ofs such chapters and may exclude chapters least once each year. afteral hearing held after at least fifteen days' notice. 2015, CC. 406,407,597,2019, C. 703;2020, CC. 11, 1006. whose provisions have expired. 2 5/13/2021 12:00:00 Code of Virginia Title 15.2. Counties, Cities and' Towns Subtitle II. Powers ofLocal Government Chapter 22. Planning, Subdivision ofI Land and Zoning Article 7. Zoning $15.2-2309. Powers and duties of boards of zoning appeals Boards ofz zoning appeals shalll have the following powers and duties: 1.Toh hear and decide appeals from any order, requirement, decision, or determination made by an administrative officer in the administration or enforcement of this article or of any ordinance adopted pursuant thereto. The decision on: such appeal shall be based on the board's judgment of whether the administrative officer was correct. The determination oft the administrative officer shalll be presumed tol be correct. At al hearing on an appeal, the administrative officer shall explain thel basis for his determination after which the appellant has the burden of prooft to rebut such presumption of correctness by aj preponderance oft the evidence. Thel board shall consider any applicable ordinances, laws, and regulations in making its decision. For purposes of this section, determination means any order, requirement, decision or determination made by an administrative officer. Any appeal of a determination to thel board shall be in compliance with 2. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, general or special, to grant upon appeal or original application in specific cases a variance as defined in S 15.2-2201, provided that the burden of proofshalll be on the applicant for a variance to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that his application meets the standard for a variance as defined in S 15.2-2201 and the Notwithstanding any other provision of law, general or special, a variance shall be granted ift the evidence shows that the strict application oft the terms oft the ordinance would unreasonably restrict the utilization oft the property or that the granting of the variance would alleviatea hardship due to a physical condition relating tot thej property or improvements thereon at the time oft the effective date of the ordinance, or alleviate a hardship by granting a reasonable modification to aj property or improvements thereon requested by, or on behalfof, aj person with ad disability, and (i) thej propertyinterest: for which the variance is being requested was acquired in good faith and anyl hardship was not created by the applicant for the variance; (ii) the granting of the variance will: not be of substantial detriment to adjacent property and nearby properties in thej proximity oft that geographical area; (iii) the condition or situation oft the property concerned isr not of so general or recurring ai nature as to make reasonably practicable the formulation ofa general regulation tol be adopted as an amendment to the ordinance; (iv) the granting of the variance does not result in a use that is not otherwise permitted on such property or a change in the zoning classification oft the property; and (v) the relief or remedy sought by the variance application is not available through a special exception process that is authorized ini the ordinance pursuant to subdivision 6 of S 15.2-2309 or thej process for modification of a zoning ordinance pursuant to subdivision A 4of $ 15.2-2286 at the time oft the filing of the variance application. Any variance granted toj provide a reasonable modification to aj property or improvements thereon requested by, or on behalf of, aj person with a disability may expire when the person benefited byi it is no longer ini need of the modification to such property or improvements provided by the variance, subject to thej provisions of state and federal fair this section, notwithstanding any other provision ofl law, general or special. criteria set out ini this section. 5/13/2021 12:00:00 housing laws, ort the. Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (421 U.S.C. $ 12131 et seq.), as applicable. Ifai request for a reasonable modification is made to a locality andi is appropriate under the provisions of state and federal fair housing laws, or the. Americans with) Disabilities. Act of1990 (421 U.S.C. S 12131 et seq.), as applicable, such request shall be granted by thel locality unless a variance from the board of zoning appeals under this section is required in order for No variance shall be considered except after notice and hearing as required by S 15.2-2204. However, when givingany required notice tot the owners, their agents or the occupants of abutting property and propertyimmediately, across the street or road from the property affected, the board may give such notice by first-class mail rather than by registered or certified mail. In granting a variance, the board may impose such conditions regarding thel location, character, and other features of the proposed structure or use as it may deem necessary: in the public interest and may require a guarantee or bond to ensure that the conditions imposed are being and will continue to be complied with. Notwithstanding: any other provision of law, general or special, the property upon which aj property owner has been granted a variance shalll be treated as conforming for all purposes under state law and local ordinance; however, the structure permitted by the variance may not be expanded unless the expansion is within an area of the: site or part oft the structure for which no variance is required under the ordinance. Where the expansion is proposed within an area of the site or part of the structure for which a variance is 3.' Tol hear and decide appeals from the decision of the zoning administrator after notice and hearing as provided by S 15.2-2204. However, when giving any required notice to the owners, their agents or the occupants of abutting property and propertyimmediately across the street or road from the property affected, the board may give such notice by first-class mail rather than by 4.Tol hear and decide applications for interpretation oft the district mapy where there is any uncertainty as to the location ofa a district boundary. After notice to the owners of the property affected by the question, and after public hearing with notice as required by S 15.2-2204, the board may interpret the map: in such way as to carry out the intent and purpose of the ordinance for the particular section or district in question. However, when giving any required notice tot the owners, their agents or the occupants of abutting property and propertylmmediately across the street or road from the property affected, thel board may give such notice by first-class mail rather than by registered or certified mail. Thel board shall not have the power to change substantially the locations of district boundaries as established by ordinance. 5.1 No provision oft this section shall be construed as granting any board the power to rezone property or tol basel board decisions on the merits ofthej purpose and intent oflocal ordinances 6. Tol hear and decide applications for special exceptions as may be authorized in the ordinance. The board may impose such conditions relating to the use for which aj permit is granted as it may deem necessary in the public interest, including limiting the duration of aj permit, and may require a guarantee or bond to ensure that the conditions imposed are being and will continue to No special exception. may be granted except after notice and hearing as provided by S 15.2-2204. such: request tol be granted. required, the approval of an additional variance shall be required. registered or certified mail. duly adopted by the governing body. be complied with. 2 5/13/2021 12:00:00 However, when giving any required notice to the owners, their agents or the occupants of abutting property and property immediately across the street or road from the property affected, the board may give such notice by first-class mail rather than by registered or certified mail. 7.To revoke a special exception previously granted by the board of zoning appeals ift thel board determines that there has not been compliance with the terms or conditions ofthe permit. No special exception may be revoked except after notice and hearing as provided by $ 15.2-2204. However, when giving any required notice to the owners, their agents or the occupants of abutting property and propertyi immediately across the street or road from thej propertyaffected, thel board may give such notice by first-class mail rather than by registered or certified mail.Ifa governing body reserves unto itselft the right toi issue special exceptions pursuant to S 15.2-2286, and, ifthe governing body determines that there has not been compliance with the terms and conditions oft the permit, then it may also revoke special exceptions ini the manner provided by 8. The board by resolution may fix a schedule of regular meetings, and may also fix the day or days to which any meeting shall be continued if the chairman, or vice-chairman ift the chairman is unable to act, finds and declares that weather or other conditions are such that it is hazardous for members to attend the meeting. Such finding shall be communicated to the members and the press as promptly as possible. Alll hearings and other matters previously advertised for such meetingi in accordance with S 15.2-2312 shall be conducted at the continued meeting and no Code 1950, SS 15-831, 15-850, 15-968.9; 1950, p. 176; 1962, C. 407, S 15.1-495; 1964, c. 535; 1972, C. 695; 1975, CC. 521, 641; 1987, C. 8; 1991, c. 513; 1996, C. 555;1997, C. 587;2000, C. 1050; 2002, C. 546;2003, C. 403;2006, C. 264;2008, C. 318;2009, C. 206;2015, C. 597;2018, c.757. The chapters of the acts of assembly referenced ini the historical citation at the end oft this section(s) may not constitute a comprehensive list of such chapters and may exclude chapters this subdivision. further advertisement is required. whose provisions have expired. 3 5/13/2021 12:00:00 King George County Zoning & Subdivision Ordinance Division 3. Board of Zoning Appeals. Article II - Administration Section 2-3-1. Appointment; Terms; Membership; Compensation; Removal. (A) Pursuant to the Code of Virginia, S 15.2-2308, et seq., as amended, a Board of Zoning Appeals (1) A BZA consisting of seven members, who are residents of King George County, shall be (2) The term of office shall be for five years; except, that of the first five members appointed, one: shall serve for five years, one for four years, one for three years, one for two years and onef for one) year. Appointmentsi forvacancies occurring otherwise than by expiration of term (3) The secretary of the BZA shall notify the court at least 30 days in advance oft the expiration or at term of office, or promptlylfavacancy occurs. Amember whoset term expires shall continue (4) Members of the BZA may be reappointed to succeed themselves but may hold no other public office in King George County; except that one member may be a member of the Planning Commission, any member may be appointed to serve as an officer of election as defined in Code of Virginia S 24.2-101, as amended, and any elected official of an incorporated town may serve on the board of the county in which the member also resides. (5) Members of the BZA shall serve without compensation but shall be reimbursed as approved by the Board of Supervisors. Within the limits of funds appropriated by the Board of Supervisors, the BZA may employ or contract for secretaries, clerks, legal counsel, (6) Any BZA member or alternate may be removed for malfeasance, misfeasance, or nonfeasance in office, or for other just cause, by the court which appointed them, after a (BZA) shall be created and organized as follows: appointed byt the circuit court. shall in all cases be for the unexpired term. tos serve untilt the successor is appointed and qualifies. consultants, and other technical and clerical services. hearing held after at least 15 days' notice. Section 2-3-2. Powers and Duties. (A) Pursuant to the Code of Virginia S 15.2-2309, as amended, the BZA shall have the following powers and duties after required notice and hearing as provided in the Code of Virginia S 15.2- (1) Appeals. Tol hear and decide appeals from anyorder,requrement, decision, or determination made by an: administrative officer in the administration or enforcement of this Ordinance as (2) Variance. To authorize upon appeal or original application a variance, as defined in the Code of Virginia S 15.2-2201, as amended, from the terms of this Ordinance when the strict application of the Ordinance would unreasonably restrict the utilization of the property or alleviate a hardship, with the applicant carrying the burden of proof to establish the application meets the variance definition and the criteria set out by Code of Virginia S 15.2- 2204, as amended: outlined in Article III, Division 9. 2309, as amended, by a preponderance ofe evidence. Article II- Administration 12-4 King George County Zoning & Subdivision Ordinance Article II = Administration (3) Boundary Interpretations. To hear and decide applications for interpretation of the district map where there is any uncertainty as to thel location of a district boundary, onlyi if: (i) The Administrator is unable toi interpret boundaries, as provided in Article 1, Division 3, oft this Ordinance; or (i) Ifan applicant appeals the Administrator'si interpretation. (ii) After notice tot the owners oft the property affected bya anysucho question, and after public hearing with notice as required byt the Code of Virginia $15.2-2204, as amended, the BZA may interpret the map in such way as to carry out the intent and purpose of this Ordinance for the particular section or district in question. (B) The provisions of this section shall not be construed as granting the BZA the power to rezone property, substantially change the locations of district boundaries as established by this Ordinance, or to base decisions on the merits oft the purpose and intent of local ordinances duly adopted by the governing! body. Section 2-3-3. Meetings and Procedures. (A) The BZA: shall adopt such rules and regulations as it may consider necessary. (B) Meetings of the BZA: shall bel held ati the call of its Chairperson or at such time as a quorum oft the (C) Aquorum shall be at least four members. A favorable vote of four members of the BZA: shall be necessary to reverse any order, requirement, decision or determination of any administrative official or to decide int favor of the applicant on any matter on which the BZA is required to pass. (D) The BZA shall choose annually its own chairperson and vice-chairperson. The vice-chairperson shall acti ini the absence of the chairperson and may administer oaths and compel the attendance (E) The BZA shall keep minutes of its proceedings, showing the vote of each member upon each question or, if absent or failing to vote, indicating such fact. It shall keep records of its examinations and other official actions, all of which shall be immediatelyt filed int the office of the BZAI may determine. of witnesses. BZA and: shall be public record. (F) All meetings of the BZA: shall be open toi the public. (G) A non-legal staff member of the County, applicant, landowner, or landowner's agent/attorney may have ex parte communications with a member of the BZA prior to a hearing but may not discuss the facts or law relative to a particular case. However, all ex parte communications must comply with the requirements of the Code of Virginia $15.2-2308.1, as amended. (H) Pursuant to the Code of Virginia $ 15.2-2287.1, as amended, members are required, prior to or ata a hearing on a matter, to make at full public disclosure of any business or financial relationship that such member has, or has had within the 12-month period prior to: such hearing and shall be ineligible to vote or participate in any way upon the matter. Article II-A Administration 12-5