TOWN OF DUCK TOWN COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING November 6, 2024 The Town Council for the Town of Duck convened at the Paul F. Keller Meeting Hall at COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Don Kingston; Mayor Pro Tempore Monica Thibodeau; Councilor Sandy Whitman; Councilor Brenda Chasen; and Councilor Kevin 1:00 p.m. on Wednesday, November 6, 2024. Lingard. COUNCIL MEMBERS ABSENT: None. OTHERS PRESENT: Town Manager Drew Havens; Director of Community Development Joseph Heard; Police Chief Jeffrey Ackerman; Fire Chief Donna Black; Town Attorney Robert Hobbs; Public Information and Events Director Kristiana Nickens; Senior Planner Sandy Cross; Deputy Town Clerk Christy Hanks; and Town Clerk Lori Ackerman. OTHERS ABSENT: None. Mayor Kingston called the meeting to order at 1:00 p.m. Mayor Kingston noted that the Closed Session would not be needed and asked for a Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau moved to remove the Closed Session item from the motion to remove it from the agenda. agenda. Motion carried 5-0. Mayor Kingston asked Councilor Sandy Whitman to lead the Pledge of Allegiance. Mayor Kingston led the moment ofs silence. PUBLIC COMMENTS Mayor Kingston opened the floor for public comments. He noted that comments will be limited to three minutes as there was a timer for the time limit. He asked that any There being no one wishing to speak, Mayor Kingston closed the time for public comments related to the public hearings be held off. comments. CONSENT AGENDA Minutes from the October 2, 2024, Regular Meeting: Minutes from the October 16, 2024, Mid-Month Meeting: Minutes from the October 30, 2024, Special Meeting: Letter of Support for the Our State Our Homes Initiative: and Resolution 24-14, a Resolution of the Town Council of the Town of Duck, North Carolina, Approvinga Contract to Purchase Real Property Owned by the Herron Family and Related Authorizations Councilor Chasen moved to approve the consent agenda as presented. Motion carried 5-0. SPECIAL: PRESENTATIONS There were: no Special Presentations at this time. QUASIJUDICIAL PUBLIC HEARING Public fearing/Discussion/Consideration of SUP 24-006, a Special Use Permit Application by NC Coast Restaurant at 1184 Duck Road to Revise the Originally Approved Conditional Use Permit (CUP 18-009) by Expanding the Capacity of the Current Restaurant by 18 Indoor Seats for Lunch Service and 24 Indoor Seats, 2,324 Square Feet of Outdoor Dining Area, and Three Employees for Dinner Service Mayor Kingston turned the meeting over to Town Attorney Robert Hobbs. Town Attorney Robert Hobbs was recognized to speak. Town. Attorney Hobbs stated that the Council would be sitting as a quasi-judicial body for the public hearing, meaning that they will sit as a court and must make its decision based upon competent material and substantive evidence that will be presented during the course of the hearing. He stated that anyone wishing to give testimony would have to give it under oath with the applicant afforded due process rights including the right to present evidence, examine, and cross- examine witnesses. He asked if any member of Council needed to disclose any communications about the subject of the hearing that they may have had with the Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated that Wes Stepp was a tenant in her building but Town Attorney Hobbs asked if there was anyone that wished to petition Council for Town Attorney Hobbs stated that anyone that would be presenting évidence in connection with the hearing would need to take an oath. He asked that anyone wishing to applicant or any person prior to the hearing. that would have no impact on her decision. permission to intervene in the hearing as aj party. There were none. testify come forward tol be sworn in. 2 Town Clerk Lori Ackerman was recognized to speak. Town Clerk Ackerman went on to The following persons were sworn to provide testimony during the hearing: Joseph Heard, Sandy Cross, Frank Douglas, Robert Fitchett, Flor Celeste Rafferty, Ray Meggs, Jim Braithwaite, John Vaught, Timothy Spence, Crouse Gray, Wes Stepp, Town Attorney Hobbs opened the evidentiary portion of the hearing. He stated that Director of Community Development Joseph Heard was recognized to speak. Director Heard noted that the public hearing was properly advertised. He stated that the applicant was requesting a special use permit to revise the originally approved conditional use permit (CUP 18-009) by expanding the capacity of the current NC Coast restaurant by 18 indoor seats for lunch service and 24 indoor seats, 2,324 square feet of outdoor dining area, and three employees for dinner service. He stated that by counting the seating additions, the total amount of seating being proposed at NC Coast would be 56 indoor seats and 365 square feet of outdoor dining area for lunch service and 62 indoor seats and Director Heard stated that the existing restaurant was 2,364 square feet in size and was approved for 38 seats and a 365 square foot outdoor seating area on the deck adjoining the western side of the restaurant. He noted that as part of the application, special use permit approval was also being sought to maintain the previously approved Village Commercial Development Option allowing a reduction in the minimum parking requirements by three parking spaces; and a reduction in the minimum front parking Director Heard gave a history of the property and what had occurred to Council and the swear in the applicants, witnesses, and staff for the public hearing. and Andy Deel. Director Heard would give an overview. 2,689 square feet of outdoor dining area for dinner service. setback from 10 feet to two feet. audience as follows: The subject property was redeveloped in 2019 with a restaurant including 38 indoor seats and an additional outdoor seating area 365 square feet in size. In) May 2020, NC Governor Roy Cooper signed an Executive Order that adopted many safety regulations for public activities during the COVID-19 pandemic including a six-foot separation requirement for restaurant patrons. Responding to the needs of local shops and restaurants, Council authorized Mayor Kingston to sign an order adopting Temporary Accommodations for Businesses Subject to COVID-19 Restrictions. Among many allowances, the accommodations allowed restaurants to provide outdoor seating to spread out their existing seating capacity in compliance with State provisions. Itis important to note that at no time was it authorized or legal for a restaurant to exceed its previously approved occupancy for the Town of Duck or Dare County Health Department. 3 Mayor Kingston renewed the temporary accommodations in 2021 and 2022, the last extension expiring on December 31, 2022, well after the State's COVID Consistent with the original intent of the temporary accommodations, NC Coast established an outdoor seating area to accommodate some of its indoor seating Over time, outdoor seating was expanded into several unapproved areas on the NC Coast property and the number of indoor restaurant seats was greatly InA April 2023, staff requested guidance and authorization from Town Council to work with businesses that were exceeding occupancy post-COVID to bring them Soon thereafter, staff conducted a site visit and documented several violations of seating/occupancy and other unpermitted expansions at NC Coast. Staff worked with the business owner to bring some items into compliance, but the occupancy Over the next 15 months, staff regularly reached out to NC Coast requesting updates regarding the status of a Special Use Permit application and notifying As of June 2024, staff had made no further progress toward achieving compliance and were moving toward formal enforcement action due to continuation of over- occupancy and failure to submit an application for amendments. In response, the applicant submitted this application on July 8, 2024 and staff agreed to stay enforcement until the outcome oft the public hearing. The applicant requested deferral of the originally scheduled public hearing from August 7, 2024 to this meeting to accommodate the completion of a wastewater capacity study and resulting report to the Dare County Environmental Health Department to consider for increased seating capacity. The request was granted restrictions had expired. capacity in 2020. increased. into compliance. issue remained. them of submission deadlines. by the Council. Director Heard stated that the applicant was seeking to expand the seating capacity of the existing restaurant by adding indoor and outdoor seating areas with an off-site parking arrangement to accommodate the increase in parking requirements. He stated that expansion of the eating/drinking establishment was allowed, subject to the special use Director Heard noted that the application does not propose any changes to the CAMA lot coverage on the property; it does not propose any expansion of the existing structures on the property; it does not propose amendments to the setbacks of the building or other improvements on the site; it does not propose to change any vehicular access to or within the site; it does not propose to change any existing bicycle or pedestrian access to or within the site; and it does not propose changing the layout of the parking within the site. Director Heard pointed out that the applicant was proposing to address the need for additional parking through a shared parking arrangement with Twiddy & Company Realtors at 1181 Duck Road. He added that Twiddy's intent was to allow shared parking permit approval, in the Village Commercial district. 4 for NC Coast on its property and if approved, the agreement will need to be formalized through a document approved by' Town Attorney Hobbs and subsequently recorded at the Director Heard stated that Subsection 156.155 oft the Duck Town Code establishes review criteria for special use permit applications. He noted that the following standards should 1. The use meets all required conditions and specifications of the ordinance. 2. The use does not materially endanger the public health or safety. Dare County Register of Deeds office. be considered as part of the Council's review: 3. The use will not substantially injure the value of adjoining property unless the use 4. The use will be in harmony with the area in which it is located and be in general Director Heard noted that the Council may prescribe appropriate conditions and safeguards to the location, nature and extent of the proposed use and its relation to surrounding properties for the purposes of (1) ensuring that the conditions of the permit approval will be complied with; and (2) minimizing any potentially injurious effect oft the proposed use on adjoining properties, the character of the surrounding area, or the health, Director Heard pointed out that the seating capacity changes between the lunch service and dinner service and will be difficult to enforce since staff do not have the capacity to check for compliance regularly. He added that since the proposed SUP 24-006 appears to comply with the development standards and other provisions in the Town's Zoning Ordinance, staff were recommending approval of the special use permit subject to the 1. Prior approval of the Village Commercial Development Option in CUP 18-009is maintained for two purposes: (1) to reduce the minimum on-site parking requirement by three parking spaces - from 16 spaces to 13 spaces; and (2)to reduce the minimum setback for parking spaces at the front of the property from 2. The overall seating capacity for the site must be consistent with the Dare County Environmental Health Department approval (presently 106 dining seats and 12 3. A legal instrument to provide the approved shared parking at the Twiddy & Company Realtors property at 1181 Duck Road must be approved by the Town Attorney and recorded at the Dare County Register of Deeds office prior to is aj public necessity. conformity with the Comprehensive & CAMA Land Use Plan. safety, and general welfare of the community. following conditions: 10: feet to two feet. bar seats). approval for the seating capacity expansion. 5 4. Adequate signage must be provided directing customers to park at the Twiddy & 5. Any new signs or exterior lighting must be compliant with Town standards and must be reviewed and approved by the Community Development Department. 6. The applicant must submit the final engineer-stamped site plan and site plan review fees as provided for in the Town's adopted fee schedule, consistent with the revised layout and parameters of the special use permit approval. Town Attorney Hobbs asked Council ift they had questions for Director Heard. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked with regard to the last condition referencing the final engineered site plan, what would be seen in the site plan that was different than what Council had in front of them. Director Heard explained that it was a standard condition, adding that Council was considering the approval of a special use permit. He added that the applicant would have to submit a site plan that would designate all of the outdoor seating area. He thought that would be the only difference between that and the previous site plan, adding that the engineer would have some notes regarding the seating Mayor Kingston asked if Twiddy & Company had agreed to record the parking agreement. Director Heard stated that staff were told that they intend to, but if decide not to then the special use permit would not be approved, since it was one of they the Councilor Lingard pointed out that there was a difference between the lunchtime capacity and the dinner capacity. He asked how that will be enforced, adding that the seats would still be there. He asked ifi it would be a situation where someone would report it ori ifs staff would proactively look to see what was happening. Director Heard stated that it was the biggest issue for staff because there was no good way to enforce it as they could not be at the site daily enforcing things. He added that staff will check in from time to time, but it will not be every day. He stated that staff understood that if the application is approved, part of the burden would be on the restaurant to agree to the conditions and abide by them. He didn'tknow how it could be better enforced without additional staff resources. Councilor Whitman stated that the applicant was asking for 18 seats for lunch and 24 seats for dinner. He asked if it could be changed to just 18 seats for both lunch and dinner. Director Heard suggested that Council consult with Town Attorney Hobbs if that would be appropriate. He noted that Council could place conditions on the approval and that could be a condition. Town Attorney Hobbs thought when Council gets to the deliberation part of the public hearing, it could be discussed. He thought that any changes that were different from the application should include findings as to why Council would be making that change rather than just making the change. He suggested that if Council Company property if the NC Coast parking lot is full. capacity. conditions for approval. 6 wanted to make a change like that, that they would want to elicit testimony from staff and the applicant as tot the basis for changes like that during the public hearing. Town Attorney Hobbs asked ift the applicants had any questions for Director) Heard. Crouse Gray of Gray & Lloyd was recognized to speak. Mr. Gray clarified that the proposal that has been submitted to Council did not change anything on the structural side of the existing building other than there may be a need to add an additional restroom. Director Heard stated he was correct. Mr. Gray clarified that there was no change to anything concerning CAMA setback requirements. Director Heard stated he was correct. Mr. Gray clarified that there was no change to the lot coverage. Director Heard stated he was correct. Town Attorney Hobbs asked the applicant to make aj presentation. would be adding additional information after the witnesses testify. Crouse Gray stated that he would be calling witnesses to make presentations and he Andy Deel of Deel Engineering was recognized to speak. Mr. Deel stated that he worked for Deel Engineering, explaining that he was aj professional engineer licensed in the State of North Carolina since 1999. He added that he started out with his bachelor's degree in science and civil engineering from Virginia Tech, graduating in 1992. Crouse Gray asked Mr. Deel if he had the opportunity to prepare plans and specifications for projects in the Town of Duck. Andy Deel stated that he had. Mr. Gray noted that he was entering Andy Deel explained that, with regard to wastewater, when a new facility, restaurant, commercial, or house is designed, the State's environmental health laws have a specific wastewater: flow that they assign to the occupancy of that building or facility. He pointed out that this was conservative, adding that the State recognizes it as conservative and the actual water use which was what the design was treating was different for different subgroups within a category in different areas. He stated that the State allows for that by allowing one to come back after the fact when a facility is operational in order to complete an extensive wastewater flow study. He noted that there were daily readings by athird party for three months, which have to be the most intense months of the year, and that information is evaluated with a safety factor applied and they come up with a wastewater flow rate that reflects the use with a factor of safety. He stated that the flow study for NC Coast indicated that the system that was in place as designed can handle up Andy Deel noted that the Town of Duck calculates parking for a restaurant by number of seats inside and square footage outside. He added that the health department used to have square footage reference for restaurants but they no longer do as it is based on number of seats. He pointed out that there was an overriding requirement that there will not be more than 106 seats regardléss of how much space is allotted outside by the Town. Andy Deel as an expert in engineering. to 106 seats per day. 7 Andy Deel stated that, with regard to. Finding 3, he understood that the primary issue with the neighboring properties has been parking. He pointed out that he was present to address this issue as they want to provide parking for a site of this intensity. He stated that parking will be provided through off-site parking, which the Town allows and has in its ordinance. He noted that this off-site parking was in tune with the concept of Village Commercial, adding that the application would monument the parking that will serve the Andy Deel stated that with regard to Finding 4, the use will not be changed, but they would be addressing the parking by obtaining more parking in a structured location, close Crouse Gray asked Andy Deel, in his professional opinion, if the use met all of the requirements of the ordinance. Andy Deel stated that it did. Mr. Gray asked if the use materially endangered the public safety or health. Mr. Deal stated that it did not. Councilor Lingard clarified that the seating capacity was 106 seats per day. He thought the term "per day" should not have been used. Andy Deel stated that it was 106 seats for Wes Stepp of NC Coast Restaurant was recognized to speak. Mr. Stepp thanked everyone for attending the meeting and went on to give a short background on himself to Council and the audience. Mr. Stepp stated that when COVID-19 hit, he worked with the Town in order to remain open. He pointed out that he was at this meeting due to parking, adding that he has worked with Clark Twiddy and others that see it as a serious problem. He noted that parking was a problem that was shared by Duck as a whole. He stated that he was present for this meeting to work out a solution, adding that Clark Twiddy has Wes Stepp explained that as far as having more seats, he asked Council to give him the maximum amount allowed by the health department as well as by the parking agreement. He pointed out that during the day there was a lot of difference between theory, what is on paper and reality of the situation, adding that the reality was during the summer, his restaurant doesn'tfill up with the indoor seats because people want to dine outside. He Crouse Gray asked Wes Stepp if he had people come to the restaurant and then walk the boardwalk. Wes Stepp thought everyone parks in one parking lot and then walks on the Councilor Chasen asked Wes Stepp if his restaurant closes between lunch and dinner. Wes Stepp stated that it does not, adding that it is open from 11:30 am until 9:00 Councilor Chasen asked how one would know the difference between lunch and dinner. pm. Mr. Stepp explained that the lunch shift changes around 2:30 pm, but it does stay open, site. to the site that was dedicated for this use. the restaurant. given him his parking lot and that he signed a letter stating SO. stated that he would work with whatever Council allows. boardwalk to visit other businesses. adding that dinner starts around 4:30 pm. 8 Town Attorney Hobbs noted that the staff report included six proposed conditions. He asked Wes Stepp if he had reviewed them and were agreeable to them. Wes Stepp stated that he received the staff report on October 31, 2024 and had a meeting with Crouse Gray Director Heard pointed out that the proposal did not mention the expansion of the outdoor seats. He asked Wes Stepp if he was proposing to expand the outdoor seating for lunch. Wes Stepp explained that if there were a certain number of seats that were given and if there was some number that he needed to meet that was different during the daytime rather than the evening, he would not seat additional people indoors. Director Heard noted that it was not what was stated in the application, adding that he needed it to be clear for Council that the proposal would require a change to the permit. He stated that the permit would have to state that it would be limited to a number of seats rather than specifying X number of seats indoors and outdoors. He added that if Council agreed to Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that the seating would be a total and it would be indoor or outdoor. She noted that there could be a day where it is raining and people would not want to sit outside. Director Heard stated that the proposal only adds 18 indoor seats and does not allow for any additional use of the outdoor area for lunch. He added that if that was the intent, then Council needs to base their approval on that. Councilor Lingard clarified that the limiting factor in the evening was the septic situation and not the parking. Director Heard stated he was correct. Councilor Lingard asked where the Town stood with the daytime parking versus the limitation on the septic system. He asked how the numbers stacked up. He thought 130 could be accommodated ift there was enough capacity for the septic system. He asked if the limiting factor during the day was the 106 seats for the septic or the number of seats for the parking. Director Heard explained that the proposal that was submitted would allow up to 18 additional Andy Deel explained that 106 is an overriding requirement from the health department, adding that daytime or nighttime doesn't matter. He stated that the Town's restriction was based on parking and during the day, there were only six parking spaces at the Twiddy property. He stated that the way that the Town regulates parking for a restaurant was that it requires a number of spaces per seat indoor and a number of spaces per square footage outdoor, noting that the application was structured that way. He explained that if the special use permit was granted, there would be 56 indoor seats during the day and 365 square feet available outdoors, meaning it would be a number of seats that were more than 56 total. He wondered how to get the flexibility to allow, for example, to have 40 indoor seats used outdoors, adding that the 365 square feet would not handle that. He wasn't sure if there was a way to put language in the permit that would state that. Councilor Chasen asked if there was any way to convert square footage to a seat. She further asked about square feet. Andy Deel explained that it was 365 square feet. about them. He added that he was agreeable to all oft the conditions. that proposal, they could make it more flexible in their discussions. indoor seats for lunch. Director Heard thought Council could limit the amount of seats totally. 9 Councilor Chasen asked what it meant as far as seating. Mr. Deel stated that it depended on how it is laid out and on how intense it was made. He added that generally, a number that has been used in the past was 15 square feet per seat, which equated to 24 seats. Councilor Whitman clarified that taking the outdoor seats and bringing them indoors for inclement weather, there would be a number of seats for occupancy that would be allowed in there. Andy Deal stated that there were and was among the conditions that were recommended by Town staff. He stated that part of the review that comes after the public hearing would be submitting it to Public Safety and making sure that everything that was being proposed will work for them. Councilor Whitman pointed out that Wes Stepp had stated that he wanted flexibility to bring the outdoor seats indoors, but he can only bring them in to a certain number. He asked if that was correct. Mr. Deel explained that Mr. Stepp was talking about seating allotment, adding that the way the Town's ordinance structures it, indoor and outdoor seating was allotted separately, noting that Director Heard was stating that the allotment would be outdoors today or indoors tomorrow. He noted that the details were an occupancy issue, but he thought it would be Director Heard explained that it could be reviewed at the staff review stage, but if Council did not grant flexibility, the applicant would be limited with the seating. Andy Deel stated that if Council granted the flexibility to subtract the indoor allotment and move it outdoors during the lunch period, then the parameters over how that would Councilor Lingard assumed that the way things currently work with the square footage outside allotment with the number of seats was. like what' Tap Shack and Back Bar had in place rather than a formal seated environment. He further assumed that was how it was done rather than specifying the number of outdoor seats. Director Heard stated that it was for dining seats for people that would actually be eating, adding that Tap Shack was a little different. Councilor Lingard clarified that that was why the code was written currently. Director Heard stated he was correct. Councilor Lingard asked ifit would be reasonable to calculate the number of parking spaces NC Coast has at the lunch time period and be fine with that number of seats that could be used indoors or outdoors up to the limit that Public Safety would have for the indoor seats. Director Heard stated that it would, adding that if that was the council's desire to allow that flexibility as well as the explanation Andy Deel provided, it would mean 80 seats for lunch. Councilor Lingard thought it would be 80 seats indoors or outdoors with a maximum number that would be determined by the fire department for indoors and 106 seats indoors or outdoors determined by the fire department rather than the numbers in front of Council. Town Attorney Hobbs asked Director Heard if it was his opinion that the ordinance gives Council the flexibility to authorize through a special use permit, the applicant could have the flexibility to shift seating between outdoor and indoor. Director Heard stated he was correct, adding that the only place where it separates it was in the parking calculations. He added that staff were not opposed to what was being proposed, but staff will be the addressed at the staff review stage. happen would be a staff/Public Safety review process. 10 ones that enforce it. He stated that if the applicant has a lot of seats outdoors during Town Attorney Hobbs pointed out that the bottom of Page 1 of the proposed order dealt with the granting of additional seating. He asked if that was where the suggested change would be. Director Heard stated that it would be during lunchtime. He thought Council could choose to cap it at 80 seats during lunch time, which would accommodate what was being proposed, but it would also allow the flexibility to put those seats either indoors or outdoors. Town Attorney Hobbs clarified that it was only for lunch time. Director Heard Town Attorney Hobbs asked the applicant for their thoughts on the proposal. Andy Deel clarified that the discussion was 80 lunch time seats to be the total indoor and outdoor. Director Heard stated he was correct. Councilor Lingard thought Council was trying to give the applicant flexibility. Crouse Gray stated that the applicant would like to request that the application be amended to make it clear during lunch time that there was a total seating of 80 seats, whether it was indoors or outdoors, with 80 seats being the maximum. Councilor Whitman asked if the restaurant was capable, according to code, of handling 80 indoor seats. Crouse Gray stated he did not know the answer until Public Safety say what the maximum occupancy that the building could be. Andy Deel pointed out that it would fall under the category of work the applicant would have to complete. Director Heard agreed. Councilor Whitman stated that Council was being asked to allow 80 seats as a combination of indoor and outdoor or just the 80 seats indoors. Mr. Gray stated that, subject to the conditions, if approved by the Planning staff, Fire and Police, that the maximum occupancy could not exceed that number, no matter what it was. Councilor Whitman thought Council should. know that before they make their decision. Councilor Chasen asked what the current occupancy was for the restaurant. Director Heard stated that it was 38 indoor seats and 365 feet outdoor. Councilor Whitman asked if38 indoor seats was what was allowed by code. Director Heard stated that it was allowed per the special use permit that was issued in 2019. Andy Deel explained that the 38 indoor seats were the capacity based on NC Coast's prior special use permit approval, Town Attorney Hobbs clarified that if 80 was used as a maximum, 38 still would be needed. Director Heard stated that 80 would supersede the 38. Town Attorney Hobbs suggested that #1 could be revised to state the following: "to revise the originally approved conditional use permit (CUP 18-009) by expanding the capacity of the current NC Coast restaurant to a maximum of 80 indoor and outdoor seats for lunch distributed between indoor and outdoor at the discretion of the owner, and 24 service, indoor Town Attorney Hobbs asked the applicant for their thoughts, adding that 18 seats would be deleted and replaced with 80 maximum for lunch service to be distributed indoors and outdoors at the owner's discretion. Crouse Gray thought it should be further subjected to lunch, staff wants to be sure that it was authorized. stated he was correct. adding that parking was the restriction on that and not the fire code. seats..." " Director Heard stated that he was correct. 11 whatever occupancy is granted on the interior by fire, Planning staff, and police. He noted that every. building has a maximum occupancy, adding that it was not based on seating but on how many people can be put in the building. He understood Councilor Whitman's concerns, adding that he and the applicant do not have a problem with agreeing that whatever the maximum was, it would not be exceeded. Town Attorney Hobbs clarified that it would be for lunch service and would be subject to the maximum occupancy as provided by Planning staff, fire, and police. Mr. Gray stated that it would be fine. Director Heard thought it could be more general and not SO specific with including fire and police. Town Attorney Hobbs asked if it should be changed to Town staff. Director Heard stated that it would be fine. Councilor Whitman asked if building code should be included. Director Heard stated that that was why he brought that up. Town Attorney Hobbs asked if the applicant was okay with the change. Crouse Gray Crouse Gray stated that he had planned to have Rolf Blizzard present, but he wasn't available. He presented letters from Mr. Blizzard as well as other real estate agents supporting the application and that additional seating would not negatively impact the values of the adjoining properties. Town Attorney Hobbs reminded Council that the letters were considered unsworn statements and could not be used as the sole basis for any decision of the special use permit application. Mr. Gray noted that it was a supplement of what staff had already made their determination on as far as the requirement of being in compliance with the overall plan of the community. He referenced the Town's 2032 Vision statement and Comprehensive & Land Use Plan, noting that it talked of enhanced moveability and spoke of the benefits of using off-site Town Attorney Hobbs asked if there were any sworn witnesses that wished to make a Frank Douglas of 118 West Bias Lane was recognized to speak. Mr. Douglas stated that he was in support of the application and asked Council to approve it. He suggested that a Town parking deck be constructed for people to use to help with the parking issue. Robert Fitchett of 113 West Bias Lane was recognized to speak. Mr. Fitchett short background on the Town's incorporation, adding that over time, the Town gave has gotten a little overzealous with the rules and regulations. He added that he was in John Vaught of Bob's Bait and Tackle was recognized to speak. Mr. Vaught stated that he was against the application due to the ongoing significant parking issues that have affected his business. He noted that overflow parking from NC Coast is with his parking lot, causing him to lose business because people cannot access his store. He Council to deny or defer the application until a solution to the parking issues can urged be stated that it was fine. parking. presentation. a support of the application. resolved. 12 Timothy Spence of Wounded Warriors in Action was recognized to speak. Mr. Spence stated that Wes Stepp has worked with his organization for many years. He stated that he Celeste Rafferty of 20 West Kitty Hawk Road, Kitty Hawk was recognized to speak. Ms. Rafferty stated that she helps businesses in Duck with their marketing, including NC Jim Braithwaite of the Scarborough Lane Shops was recognized to speak. Mr. Braithwaite stated that he supported the application. He stated that with regard to the parking issue, people park at his shopping centers and walk to other areas in Duck, which was good for the businesses. He thought the parking requirements were antiquated because they were based on people that drive to Town. He reiterated that he supported Ray Meggs of Twiddy and Company was recognized to speak. Mr. Meggs stated that he Town Attorney Hobbs asked Crouse Gray if he wished to make a closing statement. Town Attorney Hobbs asked if there was any other evidence to be presented during the Town Attorney Hobbs asked ift there were any remaining questions. There was none. Town Attorney Hobbs closed the evidentiary portion of the public hearing and turned the meeting back over to Mayor Kingston. He noted that a vote of the majority of Council was required to approve the application. He pointed out that there was aj proposed permit in Council's packet with the six conditions that were discussed during the hearing, adding that the proposed permit did include proposed findings and conclusions that any motion could be used to adopt by reference. He added that during the hearing there was a change made to the proposed permit under #1 dealing with the lunch service seating which included the 80 maximum with the flexibility between indoor and outdoor with further Councilor Chasen moved to approve SUP 24-006 with the additional wording of supported the application. Coast's. She added that she supported the application. the application. supported the application. Crouse Gray stated that he had nothing more to add. hearing. There was none. review and approval by Town staff. condition #1 as well as the findings of fact and the six conditions listed. Motion carried 5-0. Mayor Kingston called for a 10-minute recess. The time was 2:57 p.m. Mayor Kingston reconvened the meeting. 13 Public learing/Discussion/Consideration of SUP 24-008, a Special Use Permit Application by William and Lori Gray to Construct a Retaining Wall to Contain and Support Fill up to 2.8 Feet in Height at 146 Cook Drive, which is Otherwise Not Permitted under Subsection 156.128(A)6 Mayor Kingston turned the meeting over to Town Attorney Robert Hobbs. Town Attorney Hobbs stated that the Council would be sitting as a quasi-judicial body for the public hearing, meaning that they will sit as a court and must make its decision based upon competent material and substantive evidence that will be presented during the course of the hearing. He stated that anyone wishing to give testimony would have to give it while under oath with the applicant afforded due process rights including the right to present evidence, examine, and cross-examine witnesses. He asked if any member of Council needed to disclose any communications about the subject oft the hearing that they may have had with the applicant or any person prior to the hearing. There was none. Town Attorney Hobbs asked if there was anyone present that wished to petition the Reid Carter of 153 Speckle Trout Drive was recognized to speak. Mr. Carter stated that his property was adjacent to the applicant's property. Town Attorney Hobbs explained that if Reid Carter wanted to be a party to the hearing, it would mean that if Council agreed to it, he would be given the opportunity to cross-examine witnesses as opposed to just being a witness in the testimony. Mr. Carter stated that he wanted to speak to Council before they vote on the application. Town Attorney Hobbs stated that as a witness, Reid Carter would be able to speak to Council about the petition, but to be aj party, in addition he would have the right to ask questions of the staff and any other witnesses including the applicant. He asked Reid Carter if he wanted those additional rights ori if his purpose was only to provide testimony. Reid Carter stated that he wanted to ask questions. Town Attorney Hobbs clarified that Reid Carter was applying to be a party and his statement was that he was an adjoining property owner. Reid Carter stated he was correct. Town Attorney Hobbs asked Reid Carter if there was anything else he wanted to say about the application before Council decides on it. Reid Carter stated that he was before Council to say that he was in favor of the application. Town Attorney Hobbs pointed out that as a witness, Reid Carter could give testimony, the party designation would give him the ability to cross-examine and ask questions of the applicant, staff, or other witnesses. Town Attorney Hobbs stated that Reid Carter petitioned Council to be a party in the hearing and was an adjoining property owner. He thought it would be appropriate, but it Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau moved to allow Reid Carter to be aj party to the hearing. Council for permission to intervene in the hearing as a party. Reid Carter stated that he had questions and wanted tol be aj party. was up to Council ift they wanted to give him that opportunity. Motion carried 5-0. 14 Frank Nowaczyk of 140 Bayberry Drive was recognized to speak. Mr. Nowaczyk stated that he wanted be a party. Town Attorney Hobbs asked Frank Nowaczyk how his situation was different from the general public's. Mr. Nowaczyk presented a large photograph of his house that showed that it was flooded with water. Town Attorney Hobbs stated that Frank Nowaczyk did not have to give testimony at this point. Frank Nowaczyk stated that he had more testimony to give but was using the photograph SO he could be a party. Town Attorney Hobbs asked Frank Nowaczyk if his property was next Town Attorney Hobbs asked Frank Nowaczyk if he wanted to tell Council why the outcome of this petition may cause him special damages or other problems that may result in this decision that general persons in Duck would not suffer. Frank Nowaczyk stated that he did, adding that it was specifically the flooding he had shown in the photograph and that he had more to show with his testimony. He explained that the flooding occurs once a year with severe storms, adding that it was due to the topography of the lots in the neighborhood. He noted that the water that comes into his lot came partially off Bayberry Drive as well as other properties, adding that all of the water comes in from two streets and collects on his property. Town Attorney Hobbs clarified that Mr. Nowaczyk understood the distinction between a witness and a party. Mr. Nowaczyk stated that he did. Town Attorney Hobbs explained that a witness gives testimony and can be asked questions, but the witness cannot ask questions; the party has the ability to ask questions of the applicant, the Town staff, and any other sworn witnesses. He clarified that Frank Nowaczyk was applying to have the ability to be a party. Frank Nowaczyk stated he was correct. Town Attorney Hobbs clarified that Frank Nowaczyk wanted to give testimony that the action that the Council being asked to make could have a direct impact on his property itself from the applicant's property that was part of the Town Attorney Hobbs stated that Frank Nowaczyk petitioned Council to be aj party in the hearing and presented testimony as far as how the petition may directly affect his specific property which could rise to the level ofs special damages as opposed to a general member Councilor Chasen moved to allow Frank Nowaczyk tol be a party to the hearing. Councilor Lingard asked what Frank Nowaczyk's address was. Town Attorney Hobbs to or adjoining the applicant's. Frank Nowaczyk stated that it was not. application. Frank Nowaczyk stated he was correct. oft the public. stated that it was 140 Bayberry Drive. Motion carried 5-0. Town Attorney Hobbs stated that anyone that would be presenting evidence in connection with the hearing would need to take an oath. He asked that anyone wishing to Town Clerk Ackerman went on to swear in the applicants, witnesses, and staff for the testify come forward to be sworn in. public hearing. 15 The following persons were sworn to provide testimony during the hearing: Joseph Heard, Sandy Cross, Frank Nowaczyk, William Flyge, Jay Mehfoud, Paul Trotman, Michael Strader, Kathleen Rodgers, William Gray, Ken Griggs, and Tom Duez. Town Attorney Hobbs opened the evidentiary portion of the hearing. He stated that Director Heard noted that the public hearing was properly advertised. He stated that the applicants were requesting approval of 2.8 feet of new: fill supported by a three-foot-high retaining wall extending along the western side of the proposed residence. He stated that the proposed retaining wall would support fill associated with the residence and parking Director Heard stated that the property at 146 Cook Drive was part of the Bayberry Bluff East subdivision and the property was 10,000 square feet in size and zoned Single-Family Residential. He stated that the corner lot was approximately 75 feet in width along Cook Drive and 120 feet in depth along Speckle Trout Drive. He noted that the property was presently vacant, after the recently permitted removal of a 938 square foot single-family residence in April 2024. He added that currently, portions of the vacant lot have a low elevation because the location of the former residence was just about seven feet mean sea level and was prone toj ponding and flooding during substantial rainfalls. Director Heard explained that because this was a smaller, nonconforming lot that was created prior to November 20, 1975, the property qualified for reduced minimum setbacks including eight feet from the western side property line, 10: feet at the secondary Director Heard stated that the applicants submitted plans to relocate their existing 2,021 square foot single-family residence that was currently located at 107 Speckle Trout Drive to the vacant lot and construct a new swimming pool and surrounding concrete patio to the east of the proposed house location. He noted that a new concrete driveway accessing Cook Drive, gravel parking area, and gravel walking path were also proposed. Director Heard explained that the Town has a minimum required flood protection elevation of 10 feet mean sea level and in order for the ground floor to comply with the elevation standard, the applicant was requesting approval of 2.8 feet of fill supported by a three-foot high retaining wall extending along the western side of the proposed residence. He added that the proposed retaining wall would support fill associated with the residence and parking area but would not enclose the proposed swimming pool and patio. He noted that this proposal would require approval of a special use permit to allow the retaining wall to support and contain fill, which was not permitted under Subsection Director Heard stated that Subsection 156.128(C) of the Duck Town Code establishes review criteria for special use permit applications involving fill and grading activities. Director Heard would give an overview. area but would not enclose the propose swimming pool and patio. frontage on the eastern side, and 201 feet from the rear. 156.128(A)(6). 16 He noted that the following standards should be considered as part of the Council's 1. The site for the proposed fill is otherwise adequate in size, shape, and other 2. The applicant has demonstrated that the requirements of this chapter are unreasonable or impractical due to the necessity for the fill, lot shape, topographical features, location of mature vegetation, or location and 3. The amount of fill proposed is the minimum necessary to accommodate the 4. The proposed fill will not negatively impact adjacent properties or the 5. The special exception will be consistent with any applicable goals, policies and objectives specified in the Town's adopted Comprehensive & Land Use Plan and Vision Statement. This review includes the Town of Duck's evaluation of the proposal's consistency with its adopted Comprehensive & Land Use Plan, which may be more flexible or more stringent than interpretations by others. review: characteristics to accommodate the proposed project. characteristics of existing improvements on the lot. proposed project, especially for soundfront properties. surrounding area, especially for soundfront properties. Director Heard pointed out in Finding #3 that relocating a single parking space eastward in the parking area could eliminate the need for a retaining wall on the western side oft the parking area and reduce the need for the retaining wall north of the parking area as it would create the space for a traditionally tapered solution. He added that with a minor amendment to the parking layout/location, the necessity for the retaining wall surrounding the parking areas could be reduced or eliminated and the application would Director Heard stated that with the revised layout and relocation of the parking area in Finding #3, staff can conclude that all five required findings were met by the proposal and staff were recommending approval of the special use permit, subject to the following 1. The applicant must submit the required application materials and obtain necessary land disturbance and building permits prior to commencing work. 2. All areas of land disturbance must be stabilized prior to issuance of a final meet this finding. conditions: Certificate of Completion for the project. Town Attorney Hobbs asked Council ift they had questions for Director Heard. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated that the survey had "proposed five bedroom on piles" and Director Heard had mentioned it would be on a slab. She asked if putting the 17 fill and having the retaining wall to hold the fill would compromise the building for stability purposes. Director Heard stated that the applicant's engineer would be able to Councilor Whitman asked if under Item 3b, staff were recommending moving one Town Attorney Hobbs asked if the applicant had submitted a revised layout and relocation of the parking area that was in staff's recommendations. Director Heard stated that the applicant had not, adding that it was an idea he came up with as staff reviewed the plan. Town Attorney Hobbs asked if the idea had been reviewed with the applicant. Director Heard stated that the applicant received a copy of the staff recommendation the week before, adding that he had not discussed it specifically with the applicant. He added that the applicant would have to be asked about the feasibility of it and whether they were willing to do it, which would be up to them. Town Attorney Hobbs pointed out that Finding #3 has been met. He clarified that it was met regardless of whether the revision was made to the retaining wall in the parking area ori ifit was met whether or not that change was made. Director Heard stated that it would only meet in staff's opinion if Mayor Kingston asked if the applicant moved the parking spot, the special use permit was still required. Director Heard stated that it was because they were still requesting a retaining wall adjoining the house, adding that it would reduce the need for the retaining wall next to the parking area. Mayor Kingston clarified that the retaining wall on the Councilor Whitman clarified that the 25-foot wall and the 22-foot wall would be eliminated. Director Heard stated that only the 25-foot wall would need to be eliminated, adding that the applicant may be able to shorten the 22-foot wall but it would not eliminate the need entirely. He stated that the applicant's engineer could speak toit. Town Attorney Hobbs asked the applicant if he had questions for Director Heard. William Gray of 146 Cook Drive was recognized to speak. Mr. Gray stated that he did Town Attorney Hobbs asked if any of the parties that intervened had questions for Director Heard. Frank Nowaczyk pointed out that in the application it referred to the necessity of completing a drainage study. He asked if it had been completed and if not, when it will happen. Director Heard stated that it would be needed if the applicant was Reid Carter stated that as he read the materials that were presented, Director Heard used the term "excess stormwater retention." He stated that he was concerned about where the stormwater would go. He thought the bulkhead concept was a good one to pull back fill for the house, but he was concerned about stormwater that accumulates on the other side of the bulkhead. He asked if there would be enough space or depth oft the existing contour answer the question. parking space to the east. Director Heard stated that they were. the change was made. west side would not be required. Director Heard stated he was correct. not have any questions. asking for more than three feet of fill. 18 of the land outside of the bulkhead to hold the stormwater excess which was to be expected during severe rain events. Director Heard stated that single-family residential development is not required to have stormwater management. He stated that there were limitations on the amount ofi fill and how close it could be located to other properties. He stated that the applicant was not required to maintain stormwater on his site. Mr. Carter clarified that it was not required. Director Heard stated he was correct. Mr. Carter stated that he hoped that someone other than him was worried about where all the water would go, adding that his property had been through several storms and when he noticed the flooding on the applicant's property, he noticed the water never rose to the extent that it had on his home. He understood that the bulkhead, because it was a vertical surface, would allow for a different contour on the outside and will allow for more space or volume for the water to stand. He asked if that would be acceptable for the applicant to contour the land outside oft the bulkhead. Director Heard stated it was allowed as long as Councilor Lingard clarified that if the 25.5-foot wall was eliminated, the main bulkhead would be on the western plane of the house. Director Heard stated he was correct. Councilor Lingard clarified that in terms of stormwater management, it wouldn't matter ifit was a three-foot bulkhead or a 10-foot bulkhead as rain would still fall off the house Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked if there were any permeable surfaces involved in the plan. Director Heard stated that the driveway from the right-of-way to the house, the driveway and parking area would be all gravel. He added that the applicant had a it was within five feet oft the adjoining properties. and move away. Director Heard stated he was correct. walkway that would also be gravel. Town Attorney Hobbs asked the applicant to. make aj presentation. William Gray stated that he did not have anything else to add, noting that the application meets the conditions that were set forth in the ordinance and he was willing to accept the two conditions that were added. He explained that the retaining wall showed 38 feet behind the house, which was approximately two feet in height. He stated that the that was mentioned by Director Heard was only six inches tall. He added that he could part accommodate it by moving the parking spaces to the east and then grade it down. Town Attorney Hobbs asked William Gray if he agreed to the relocation of the single parking space that was in the staff report. Mr. Gray stated that he would shift the parking spaces. Town Attorney Hobbs thought it could be a third condition, which would be to relocate one parking space and eliminate the wall next to the parking spaces. Mr. Gray Frank Nowaczyk stated that there was some confusion regarding the 10 feet of fill. He asked what it meant. William Gray explained that there wasn't 10 feet of fill on the lot, adding that there was a minimum elevation established by the Town, which was a 10.1 elevation and the current lot was approximately 7.5 and he would be bringing in 2.5 feet of fill to raise the lot. He reiterated that it was 2.5 feet of fill and not 10 feet. Mr. stated he would be in favor of that condition. 19 Nowaczyk stated that there was some confusion about the 5-foot setback. He pointed out that people in his community believed that the setback was eight feet and not five feet per the 1971 documents when homes were originally built. Director Heard explained that the eight feet referred to the building setback, adding that when he was referring to the five feet it was the setback for any fill. He added that one related to the building and the other related to the fill. He noted that the fill could not be any closer than five feet. Michael Strader of Withers Ravenel was recognized to speak. Mr. Strader gave his qualifications and background, noting that he was an expert in his field of expertise. Mr. Strader believed that everyone would agree that the footprint of the prior residence was not in a desirable location to build a house within its current condition. He stated that the applicant was not in front of Council because of the fill, but because of the retaining of the fill through the use of walls. He explained that the whole site layout was generated to minimize the amount of fill and impact to any adjoining properties, adding that the position of the house was much further east than the prior residence used tol be. He added that when looking at the topography of the existing lot, the former house had an enclosure that was on the ground level at an elevation of 7.5, which was the lowest location of the Michael Strader explained that it made sense to fill the building pad and in order to comply with the local elevation standards and meet the regulatory flood protection elevation as well as meeting all of the Town of Duck's requirements including the fill setback, they have proposed to situate the house further east on the higher ground in order to minimize the height of the wall. He added that the wall itself was vertical sO the would not be tapered down at a greater slope which would displace more area where slope stormwater could go. He stated that with regard to the 25-foot westernmost wall, in his opinion he thought it was actually best to have the layout the way it was shown on the site plan, adding that a permeable pea gravel drive and parking area was proposed, which was intentional. He pointed out that it could have been concrete or pavement for the driveway and could have been situated steeper sO that they would not need the wall, but they chose to use pea gravel which could not put that on too steep of a slope. He the applicant would be amenable to moving the westernmost parking space by thought it Michael Strader pointed out that instead of having a wall that tapers, they would not have it at all and would use it to taper to the existing grade. He stated that the contour that was shown on the site plan was the absolute minimum of fill. He added that it minimizes the footprint SO there would be the opportunity to route roof runoff and putting it on the Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that the house would sit on a slab. Michael Strader explained that it would be a pile supported structure but it was proposed to have a concrete slab. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that it would be pilings and a slab. entire property. ini front oft the stairway, which would be compliant. putting higher elevation to allow al better opportunity for it to infiltrate. Mr. Strader stated she was correct. 20 Councilor Lingard pointed out that Section 8a suggested that what was shown as pea gravel was listed as concrete. He clarified that it was an error. Michael Strader stated that Councilor Lingard was correct, adding that Section 8a illustrated a top of a concrete drive but should be noted as a top of pea gravel. Town Attorney Hobbs asked if the revised layout and relocation of the parking area also included a correction as to the pea gravel versus the concrete. Mr. Strader stated that they would eliminate that section Frank Nowaczyk asked how many truckloads of fill will be required by the plan. Michael Strader thought there would be eight cubic yard dump trucks, but he wasn't sure exactly how much fill that would be. Mr. Nowaczyk stated that Michael Strader's answer concerned him. Michael Strader stated that the public hearing was not about the amount Town Attorney Hobbs asked if the applicant had other witnesses to speak. There were Town Attorney Hobbs asked if there were any sworn witnesses that wished to make a William Flyge of 130 Bayberry Drive was recognized to speak. Mr. Flyge thought Council was missing some of the point around the storm drain or the drainage issue that may occur or may be exacerbated by the development. He pointed out that his comments were not intended to begrudge or inhibit any private development that needed to be done by the applicant. He stated that it has become apparent to many in the Bayberry Bluffs community that there is a storm drainage issue and this may exacerbate it. He stated that if there was a study or review that needed to be done as to what the impact may be around this development, then it should be looked at now, even ifit wasn'tai requirement. He stated that it may be an issue or may create issues for the surrounding homeowners in the area as well as being a property valuation issue for the Bayberry Bluffs subdivision. Reid Carter stated that he was a neighbor of the project and had received the effect of stormwater drainage from this property onto his property. He pointed out that he has lived at his property about 12 years with many storms and flooding but the extra stormwater has never. risen to the level of being a problem at his home. He added that he was happy to be William Gray's neighbor and have the stormwater fill the side of the yard that separates his home from Mr. Gray's. He stated that he was in support of the Paul Trotman of 142 Bayberry Drive was recognized to speak. Mr. Trotman stated that the properties equally shared the stormwater when it flooded. He stated that his point was that he did not want to take on more than his share of the stormwater, adding that it has become an issue and he didn't want it to be more of an issue because someone built up their property. He stated that all of the properties were built up and the water needed to gos somewhere. He pointed out that the retaining wall would be to: maintain the grade and altogether. of fill, but the retaining of the: fill. none. presentation. He asked Council consider his comments. application and encouraged Council to approve it. 21 had to be five feet was fine with him. He noted that most of the wall was in the middle of the property, but thought it was a moot point. He thought the southern part of the retaining wall by the parking area was sacrificial, but as long as the rest of the wall remained, it would be fine. He stated that the engineer was correct in how the property was shaped in that it was all high ground on the east and south side. He thought there was no need for fill in that area if the parking was shifted over. He did not understand why the pool would be put in the lowest part of the property, adding that the water would pool in that area. He stated that, with regard to how much fill will need to be brought in, an eight cubic yard truck was small, adding that it will need a significant amount of fill to fill in Paul Trotman pointed out that this was a big deal for him because he saw a long time of dealing with flood waters and water damage because the applicant wants to fill one place in and the rest of the properties will suffer the consequences. He added that he doesn't want to deal with replacing drywall and the potential property damage that this project Tom Duez of 139 Cook Drive was recognized to speak. Mr. Duez stated that it appeared that the home will be built about 15 feet from the street. Director Heard pointed out that the house was 25 feet from the street. Mr. Duez thought it was supposed to be set back 45 feet from the street. He added that the side setbacks were eight feet and any construction could not be inside of the eight feet according to the original paperwork. He pointed out that his house was a slight grade lower than Mr. Gray's lot. He thought ifMr. Gray built his house higher, he would end up getting all the water on his property, which Jay Mehfoud of Mancuso Development was recognized to speak. Mr. Mehfoud stated that he was representing Robert Konstanzer and Joann Hanks of 142 and 144 Cook Drive. He stated that after hearing from William Gray and Michael Strader, a lot of what he wanted to say was no longer pertinent. He stated that the homeowners of 142 and 144 Cook Drive were strongly opposed to the application. He noted that raising the lot and the use of the bulkhead would bring it up to 10 feet, Mr. Konstanzer's property was directly next door and was at seven feet. He pointed out that both 142 and 144 Cook Drive have flooded twice in previous storms and the way the lot was situated and the proposed development would mean it will cause problems for them with flooding. He stated that the owners have requested that Council deny the application as proposed. Kathleen Rodgers of 110 Gifford Circle was recognized to speak. Ms. Rodgers stated that she represented the feelings of the homeowner association, adding that she was the secretary of the homeowners association. She stated that there were concerns they had and thought it was good for William Gray to hear the impact of this project. She understood that the fill would not be necessary if Mr. Gray did not want to enclose the ground floor. She pointed out that Director Heard had told her that the fill would not be necessary, but it would have to be raised up to 10 feet SO that the ground floor could be enclosed and made into a room that, she was told, was not the current situation of the house that would be moved. Ms. Rodgers felt there was a compromise in that it does not the lot, which will displace water onto the adjacent properties. will cause. hel had a problem with. 22 have to be raised that much, adding that the houses will flood. She pointed out that it was the frequency as well as how often they would flood, adding that they would probably flood more. She stated that more houses will flood because the water level will be higher. She added that houses that may have been getting some water on their lot may now get water in their homes. She stated that Council was weighing a downstairs room Frank Nowaczyk stated that he bought his home in 2000 and moved to Duck permanently in 2018. He stated that when he first heard that William Gray was going to move his home, he was excited because his house was next door to it. He stated that he had heard the house was going to be put in a landfill, they followed suit, adding that it kept the house out of the landfill. He thought having older houses in the neighborhood preserves the character. He stated that when he heard about the special use application, he was not happy about it. He pointed out that he did not think William Gray was aware of the flooding that he has endured for years. He added that he wished he had met Mr. Gray before the application was submitted so that he could have had a conversation with him. Frank Nowaczyk stated that the fact that William Gray was moving his house was fine, but the current house has four bedrooms and there will be an additional fifth bedroom added to the home along with a pool. He pointed out that adding that in as well as bringing dirt in will require retaining walls and those that live in the neighborhood were alarmed by this. He stated that in Duck's CAMA plan, Page 67 shows the affected area which was a small pink dot in an ocean of orange. He explained that he and others have lived in their homes, which was in a Category 1 storm surge area. He noted that the Town already knew that their neighborhood was in an area that is prone to: flooding. Frank Nowaczyk pointed out that Staff Analysis #4 stated the following: "Staff acknowledges that any fill will negatively impact the stormwater storage capacity of the property but finds that the proposed improvements will not result in impacts greater than those allowed by the Town for any typical SFR development." Mr. Nowaczyk asked if this was a typical development that was in a Category 1 storm surge area, adding that he did not think it was, because it was not a typical development in an area that flooded frequently. He disagreed with staff's analysis because he felti it was atypical. Frank Nowaczyk presented photographs to Council of different residences in the neighborhood where they had flooded. He noted that he found the photographs on Facebook from 2016. He stated that some of the photographs showed material damages, adding that his home has been saved by a couple ofi inches of floodwater, but other homes had floodwaters inside their homes. He noted that these damages were happening Frank Nowaczyk stated that he was opposed to application, adding that the optics for many of the homeowners were that if Council allowed William Gray to add a bedroom and a pool, it would put six properties in jeopardy. He noted that while Mr. Gray may have the right to put in three feet of fill without any ramifications, he thought it was versus at least four homes that will probably have more: flooding. without the additional fill and the new development. irresponsible and wondered ifit was the right thing to do. 23 Frank Nowaczyk stated that there was a lot of discussion from the Town with respect to permeation of stormwater and stormwater management. He pointed out that if this didn't qualify as stormwater management, he didn't know what did. He asked Council to use common sense with allowing multiple dump trucks to put sand in a spot that currently accepts water as it would shunt it and hurt everyone around it. He reiterated that he was Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that Frank Nowaczyk moved his house to his current address. Frank Nowaczyk stated she was correct. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked Mr. Nowaczyk if he had put in a ground level room on his property. Mr. Nowaczyk stated that he did not, adding that it was a garage on a slab that was unheated. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that there was ground level development on a slab. She asked if a concrete driveway was installed. Mr. Nowaczyk stated that there was. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that she saw in the photographs that were presented were floodwater issues in Bayberry Bluffs that currently exist. Mr. Nowaczyk stated she was correct. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that it was not created by William Gray's development since it was currently an empty Councilor Whitman asked when the photographs were taken. Frank Nowaczyk stated Councilor Chasen asked what the impact of the recent storm was to the Bayberry Bluffs subdivision. Frank Nowaczyk stated that it was similar to the photographs he had presented, adding that he was out of town at the time of the storm. He stated that he had his neighbor check his property to see if floodwater had gotten into his garage while they were out of town. He suggested asking some of the neighboring homeowners present Councilor Lingard stated that it was an issue. He asked if the homeowners association had done anything to mitigate the stormwater which has been an issue for several years. Frank Nowaczyk stated that they have not, adding that they own and maintain the roads. He understood that the reason for the indentations was due to civilian conservation corps and the construction of the dunes where they needed sand. He added that throughout Councilor Chasen stated that she wanted to hear from anyone that was in the subdivision regarding the recent storm activity. Kathleen Rodgers stated that it flooded mildly, adding that the neighborhood does flood. She thought the question was if it will flood more frequently and will more homes be involved because of less area for the water to be Councilor Lingard pointed out that those that spoke seem to expect William Gray's lotto be their sink, but it was not and it was not Mr. Gray's responsibility to take their stormwater. He agreed it was a low point and it seemed that those that spoke were opposed to the application. lot. Frank Nowaczyk stated she was correct. that they were taken in 2016 during Hurricane Matthew. about it. Duck there were low points that he had heard about. absorbed. 24 expecting Mr. Gray's lot to be the reservoir for their stormwater. He reiterated that he did not think it was Mr. Gray's responsibility. Frank Nowaczyk stated that they were not asking William Gray tol be their reservoir for stormwater, but they were asking that he not exacerbate it by putting in dump truck loads of fill that will prevent the drainage from happening in the future. He reiterated that it will exacerbate the situation. He thought Kathleen Rodgers made a good point in that Mr. Gray will be bringing in fill in order to put a room on a slab as well as putting in aj pool. He thought it was fine, but there were Councilor Whitman asked Frank Nowaczyk if he or the others that spoke attended any of the stormwater management meetings that the Town held, since they have had these problems over. multiple years. Frank Nowaczyk stated that he did not. Kathleen Rodgers stated that she did not attend. Tom Duez stated that with the last storm he had three Ken Griggs of Griggs and Company was recognized to speak. Mr. Griggs stated that he did not understand why the people that spoke were having issues since they had the opportunity to hire an engineer such as Michael Strader to come and complete a stormwater drainage plan for each of their properties. He added that they have the ability to handle their own stormwater issues themselves and it should not be William Gray's responsibility. He believed that the lot coverage issues mandated throughout Dare Ken Griggs stated that William Gray was under his lot coverage allowance, which was how one handles stormwater drainage. He reiterated that those that spoke all had the opportunity to correct their problems. He pointed out that Director Heard would even come out and help them. Director Heard corrected himself and noted that Mr. Gray's lot coverage could go to 40%. Mr. Griggs thought everyone was losing track of what Mr. Gray was present for, which was a retaining wall. He added that it was the same thing that the Town has completed up and down NC 12 when they were putting in the Frank Nowaczyk asked Ken Griggs if the Town of Duck brought in fill for the retaining walls and if SO, how much was brought in. Director Heard pointed out that Ken could not answer that question, adding that it was used to support an existing Griggs and, Ken Griggs pointed out to Frank Nowaczyk that he was not an engineer for the Town. Frank Nowaczyk stated he wasn't either but noted that Mr. Griggs had stated that there were retaining walls up and down Duck Road that were equivalent to a retaining wall that was holding back fill that was being brought in from the outside. Mr. Griggs stated that he had mentioned the retaining walls in case anyone wanted a visual of what a retaining wall would look like since it was a good example. He added that it ran all the way up and six properties that will be affected by the slab and the fill. inches of water in his garage. County were 35% in that area. Director Heard stated that it was 30%. sidewalks. ini most cases, there was no: fill brought in. slope down Duck Road, as well as through the Town of Southern Shores. 25 Town Attorney Hobbs asked if there were any remaining witnesses that wished to speak. Town Attorney Hobbs asked if either of the two parties wanted to make a closing Town Attorney Hobbs asked if the applicant wanted to make a closing statement. Michael Strader believed that Council had listened to all of the evidence and everyone's comments, adding that it solidified the applicant's position as far as why wouldn't one put a reasonable amount of fill with the walls intended to minimize the impact of the fill. He stated that he respected all of the comments that were made and was glad they were Town Attorney Hobbs asked ift there were any. remaining questions from Council. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that all lots in Duck were being treated the same in terms of when an applicant wants to build on their property, adding that they get to the base flood level up to three feet by right. She added that topography played a role but clarified that each individual property owner had that right. Director Heard stated she Councilor Lingard clarified that the reason for the fill was to meet the requirement for the elevation that was required by the Town. Michael Strader stated he was correct. Councilor Lingard asked if the requirement was not there and ifit was built on the current grade, would it make a difference in terms of drainage to what was currently happening. Mr. Strader explained that even if one was improving on top of an existing whatever was currently happening would still happen. Councilor Lingard asked grade, if putting in two feet of fill retained by the retaining wall would make a difference with regard to the drainage than ifit was just a concrete wall. Mr. Strader stated that he would not state that any amount of fill would not impact the existing conditions, but Town staff have stated that up to three feet of fill was permittable and encouraged in this instance. Town Attorney Hobbs asked if there was any other evidence to be presented during the Town Attorney Hobbs asked ift there were any remaining questions. There were none. Town Attorney Hobbs closed the evidentiary portion of the public hearing and turned the meeting back over to Mayor Kingston. He reminded Council that when they heard testimony and witnesses, they were entitled to evaluate each witness on their own, including qualifications. He further reminded Council that they were not permitted to change or modify standards of the ordinance during the hearing or as part of their decision. He stated that if there was a motion to approve the permit, it contained the proposed findings and conclusions which Council could reference. He noted that on the top of Page 3 of the proposed permit, Item #5 stated the following: "The Town Council's conclusion of the special exception..." should be changed to special use permit. He There were none. statement. There were: none. alll heard. was correct. hearing. There was none. 26 stated that there were two conditions listed and the applicant had agreed to make a change to the layout if the application was approved, to relocate the parking areas as described in Item #3b. He suggested that if there was a motion to approve the permit, Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated that she appreciated hearing from everyone, adding that she had lived in Bayberry Bluffs for 10 years. She thought what she heard from the testimony was that the applicant could do more to his property by right but chose to make concessions, changes and didn'tmaximize with regard to all he could do. She stated that with regard to fill, it can be done by right and was in the Town's ordinance as well as keeping it five feet off the property line in most cases. She pointed out that flooding is happening in Bayberry Bluffs and was an issue in other areas ofTown as well. She stated that as a Council member, she wanted to continue to help neighborhoods address flooding, but didn't think it was William Gray's obligation to limit his personal property rights, even though he's doing all he could to keep the water on his property. She stated that the Town needs to continue working on stormwater in the community, adding that she was not aware that Bayberry Bluffs had such an issue, but she has witnessed it in other communities. She added that she would be supporting Councilor Chasen thought the applicant was doing what he could to minimize the impacts by not going to maximum capacity and was trying to be aware of where the stormwater was going, moving things around, and being flexible. She added that she would be Councilor Lingard agreed with Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau and Councilor Chasen's comments. He pointed out that the public hearing was not about fill but was about a retaining wall. He stated that if there wasn't a retaining wall, then there would be more fill. He appreciated that flooding was an issue and people were concerned, but it didn't matter how many truckloads of fill were brought in as it was irrelevant to this application because the application was: for the retaining wall. He stated that he would be supporting Councilor Whitman agreed with the rest of Council. He stated that the applicant has a right to do what was needed within the Town's ordinances. He stated that he would be Mayor Kingston thought everything was well stated by Council and thought as a' Town, it will continue to address stormwater management. He stated that there was a lot of good discussion about it at this meeting and it was a priority of the Town. He noted that it would not be solved with one property owner building one home, but thought it became a continuance as a strategic direction for the Town to address stormwater. Councilor Chasen moved to approve SUP24-008 with the findings of fact as well as the two proposed conditions listed and the one additional condition. that the third condition be added. the application. supporting the application. the application. supporting the application. 27 Motion carried 5-0. LEGISLATIVE PUBLICI HEARINGS Public learing/Diseussion/Consideration of Ordinance 24-04, an Amendment to the Town Standards and Definition of Lot Coverage in Section 156.002 of the Town Code regarding Allowances for Pervious Surface Materials for Single-Family Residences Mayor Kingston turned the meeting over to Town Attorney Hobbs. Town Attorney Hobbs opened the public hearing, noting that the Council would be sitting as al legislative body. He stated that Director Heard would give aj presentation. Director Heard stated that Ordinance 24-04 proposes to update and clarify the Town's standards for the use of pervious materials on single-family residential properties consistent with the intent of the Town's lot coverage standards. He noted that, specifically, the draft ordinance included exemptions for artificial turf and water in swimming pools to make the Town standards consistent with recently adopted State legislation. He added that Subsection 7 proposes a 100% lot coverage credit for pervious parking surfaces and Subsection 8 proposes a 40% credit for other types of semi-pervious parking surfaces and pervious surfaces used elsewhere on a property. He stated that the ordinance also proposes standards for appropriate subsurface base materials, certification of perviousness by a North Carolina licensed engineer, long-term maintenance of the Director Heard stated that the Council had adopted Ordinance 23-01 on April 5, 2023, which amended the definition of Lot Coverage by allowing completely pervious groundcover materials to be entirely exempt from lot coverage calculations. He noted that this exemption was subject to certification by a North Carolina licensed engineer or documentation of installation according to manufacturer's specifications. He explained that the definition of Lot Coverage previously had and still has a provision allowing paving blocks such as turfstone or equivalent, permeable interlocking concrete pavers (PICPS), and porous concrete installed on a pervious base, not to include clay, to be Director Heard stated that after working with the new standards for a year, staff ran across several instances where contractors wanted to receive the 100% allowance for the use of permeable pavers in aj parking area. He pointed out that it was not entirely clear to the public or staff when each provision is intended to apply. He added that following research and multiple meetings of discussion/analysis, the Planning Board prepared the draft ordinance to help clarify when allowances will apply to pervioussemi-pervious Director Heard stated that in response to a Planning Board question concerning a 10- year/two-hour storm event, Town Engineer Mike Robinson noted that a 10-year, two- pervious surface, and recordation of maintenance agreements. considered 60% impervious. surfaces in the future. 28 hour storm in Duck equaled 3.1 inches of rainfall. He added that for comparison, the Towns of Kill Devil Hills and Nags Head both use 4.2 inches as a design storm for engineered stormwater, noting that Engineer Robinson offered his opinion that a Director Heard stated that since it updates and further clarifies the definition of Lot Coverage and allowances for the use of permeable materials in lot coverage calculations consistent with the Town's intent, the Planning Board voted 4-1 to recommend approval of the proposed text amendments in Ordinance 24-04 at its meeting on September 11, 2024. He noted that in addition to clarifying which type of pervious materials will receive which allowances, the Board members highlighted the importance of having appropriate subsurface base materials, licensed engineer's certification of perviousness, long-term maintenance of the pervious surface, and recordation of maintenance agreements, which have been addressed in the draft ordinance. He pointed out that as part of their discussion, the Planning Board acknowledged the challenge of enforcing the maintenance provisions and considered the timing of implementing these changes when the new State Town Attorney Hobbs asked Council ift they had questions for Director Heard. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked if existing permeable surfaces and permitted uses are grandfathered in perpetuity. Director Heard stated that the ordinance would make it more flexible for homeowners, adding that now they only are allowed a certain percentage for using that permeable surface. He added that in some instances, the homeowner would have a greater percentage. He noted that every pool in Duck would now be exempt from the pool water, where the original calculations included that. He pointed out that it would free up a few percentage amounts depending on the size of the pool. He stated that it would make it more flexible for homeowners in most cases. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that if a homeowner were to reapply for something, the calculations would be re-examined. Director Heard stated she was correct, adding that it would be applied retroactively. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that with regard tot the recording ofi it, it was the mechanism that the Planning Board thought might tie the homeowners' responsibility. She asked if the Town was considering a standardization of the recording or ifi it would be left up to the homeowner under the proposal. Senior Planner Sandy Cross was recognized to speak. Senior Planner Cross explained that the Town has a standardized form, adding that staff will have to research the permeable pavers in order to standardize them, but the form itself was currently standardized and has been used for the past two years. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that people were using the: form. Senior Planner Cross stated that they were. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked if the Town was doing anything to maintain its own permeable pavement. Senior Planner Cross explained that the Town has used permeable pavement without any maintenance required. She stated that in the past two years, staff have implemented additional permeable pavement and have started al biannual maintenance plan. She added that any new permeable pavement or concrete will be maintained on a regular basis. She noted that the permeable pavement that was installed minimum 3.1-inch standard was adequate for the Town's purposes. legislation will not take effect until November. 29 on Oyster Catcher Lane to Blue Heron Lane a few years ago have been maintained biannually since its installation. She added that the permeable pavement at Sound Sea Village was not maintained initially but is happening now. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked ifit was considered fully permeable or semi-permeable. Senior Planner Cross explained that previously, in terms of residential use, staff would only count that as a40% credit, which would count as 60%. She added that with the draft ordinance, ifa homeowner was going to install a permeable driveway or any other permeable system, the Town would give them 100% credit with a maintenance agreement, engineer's certification, and recordation. She noted that ifi it was concrete and was not permeable, the homeowner would receive 100% credit. She stated that, outside of the driveway, the Town would only give 40% credit because if the Town gave 100% permeable credit for Councilor Whitman clarified that it would include Astroturf. Senior Planner Cross stated he was correct, adding that previously, the Town did not count artificial turf without any coverage, SO there may be some impacts, but there hasn't been a tremendous amount of Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that it was considered permeable. Senior Planner Cross stated that, currently, it was considered 100% permeable, but with the ordinance change it would be considered 60% coverage. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked if the Town would be asking for the pool water to be maintained. Senior Planner Cross stated that the Town would. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that it would not be by deed restriction. Senior Planner Cross stated that the Town was requiring a deed restriction because it has to be installed a certain way to be considered permeable with maintenance specifications and installation specifications, which the' Town would be asking to be recorded. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked ifi it would be conceivable to put it on a survey in addition or instead of recording because she thought there was concern with regard to people transferring properties between owners that the deed restriction may not become relevant until late in the process of buying and selling. She thought if it was on the survey, it would show up sooner. Senior Planner Cross pointed out that there were people that do not get surveys when they purchase property. Town Attorney Hobbs stated that most people do not get surveys. Senior Planner Cross noted that a title search was typically completed with regard to the purchase of property and this would show up in that search. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated that her concern was that they may not know about it when they were in the process of purchasing a home. Senior Planner Cross agreed, adding that she was not sure when the title search would come into play. She asked Town Attorney Hobbs if it was before the buyer closes. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated that it was before the closing date. Town Attorney Hobbs agreed, adding that it depended on the owner or the buyer as to when they want to have it completed and whether it was before or after the due diligence period. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau thought it may notl be the end all, be all way to flag this and may not Councilor Lingard asked what the other towns were doing in terms of maintenance, recording the maintenance, and enforcing it. Director Heard stated that the information the pool deck, the pool deck would grow in size. artificial turf yet. have the same effect. 30 was provided to the Planning Board at their meeting. He noted that he did not have anything in the staff report for Council. He stated that the Planning Board was discussing the information with regard to what other committees were doing and how they dealt with that issue. Councilor Lingard asked if there was any way to restrict an area that has artificial turf. Director Heard stated that it could not be restricted with the new State law and this exemption. He stated that the only place where there would be a restriction would be on soundfront lots, adding that he thought it would also apply to oceanfront lots. Senior Planner Cross noted that it was technically not permitted over septic drainfields, adding that Dare County does not have an enforcement mechanism other than Mayor Kingston asked if a house had a gravel driveway and a year later the homeowner wanted to put in a concrete driveway, it would be caught when the building permit was submitted. Director Heard stated that the homeowner would be required to obtain a land Town Attorney Hobbs asked if any members of the public wished to comment on the Duke Geraghty of 103 The Winery in Manteo, was recognized to speak. Mr. stated that he was a member of the Outer Banks Homebuilders Association. He Geraghty stated that the proposed ordinance came to his attention recently, adding that it doesn't state it was currently a permitted right that one could use artificial turf. He pointed out that it didn't state that it could be used with an engineer's certificate, adding that the legislation specifically stated that it was according to the manufacturer's instructions. He stated that itdid not state that a mandatory maintenance plan was needed. He stated that he did not have a problem with it, but having to have it recorded with the deed it could get lost over time. He suggested that Council revisit the issue or have Town Attorney Hobbs check to Councilor Whitman pointed out that Duke Geraghty had suggested sending the ordinance back to the Planning Board or to Town Attorney Hobbs. He asked what Mr. was looking for. Duke Geraghty stated that he did not know, adding that he Geraghty wasn't looking for an engineer to come onto the property. He pointed out that if it was a new house, that was fine but didn't agree with it ifit was a remodeling. He thought it was a very expensive proposition. Councilor Whitman noted that it would give a larger footprint to a home. Duke Geraghty agreed. Councilor Whitman pointed out that that was the tradeoff. Mr. Geraghty stated that he did not agree with the deed recordation requirement because it would cause problems. He wondered how the maintenance would Councilor Lingard stated that the staff report had that it either had to be certified by an engineer or installed according to manufacturer's specifications. He pointed out that the Town was not requiring an engineer to inspect it as long as it was installed according to manufacturer's specifications. Director Heard explained that the State Senate Bill does toi issue a letter ofr non-compliance. disturbance permit for the work and staff would evaluate it at that time. proposed ordinance. see what the standards should be. be maintained and enforced. 31 not apply directly to local governments but applies to stormwater management. He added that everything that was in the State statute was not required for this ordinance. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that by State statute just for stormwater management, it had nothing to do with lot coverage calculations and this was a way to tie that state regulation to Duck's lot coverage regulations. Director Heard stated she was correct. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that the Planning Board decided to not count the water in a swimming pool. Director Heard stated she was correct. There being no one else wishing to speak, Town Attorney Hobbs closed the public hearing and turned the meeting back over to Mayor Kingston. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau thought it was nice to discuss latitude and lot coverage. She felt that the Town was in a situation where there was a lot of build-out and that there will be redevelopment as well as opportunities to use this new regulation. She thought it may discourage people from using permeable surfaces because of the recordation requirement. She added that she was concerned that it will get lost in the buying and selling of properties. She thought it would create confusion as to what needed to be recorded and what does not in terms of when the ordinance goes into effect, SO there will be grandfathered homes and other homes. She thought it would be aj point of confusion. She thought if Council was in favor of the ordinance, she suggested tabling it until Council can understand the standardization that would be in place and make it boilerplate for the professionals that were involved. She didn't think it was ready and more work Councilor Lingard stated that he did not. know why those in Raleigh think the water that goes into a swimming pool ends up not being permeable. He stated that Astroturf was one of the worst environmental materials to use and was one of the worst sources of Councilor Whitman pointed out that the Planning Board has discussed this issue for the last seven months with no resolution. He wasn'tsure how much more could be sent back Councilor Chasen stated that she wanted to ask Senior Planner Cross a question. needed to be done. microplastics. to the Planning Board on this one subject. Town Attorney Hobbs reopened the public hearing. Councilor Chasen asked how this would be managed. She further asked if a homeowner purchased a property with 100% for the swimming pool with a deck sO they have credit, if they do not maintain that, how would it be known that it wasn't maintained. Senior Planner Cross explained that there have not been any instances where there were complaints. She stated that it would be complaint-driven if something was failing and causing impacts on adjacent properties. Councilor Chasen clarified that it would be runoff or other issues. Senior Planner Cross stated that enforcement will be difficult, 32 which was one of the reasons why it was suggested that a maintenance agreement be There being no other questions, Town Attorney Hobbs closed the public hearing. Mayor Kingston agreed with Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau's comments. He stated that Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated that she was not sure that the Planning Board needed to work on this. She stated that she would not support the ordinance. Councilor Lingard stated that he was not sure how this will work and what the recorded deeds would look like. He did not think there was a need to rush into things, adding that he would rather get it right. He thought Council could have a longer discussion on the Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau moved to send the ordinance back to the Planning Board for more concrete mechanisms and examples of the procedures involved. Mayor Kingston thought it could come back at a Council mid-month meeting or at the included. he was not ready to support the ordinance. issue at a future meeting. Retreat. Motion carried 4-1 with Councilor Whitman dissenting. OLDEUSINESSITEMS DEFERRED FROMPREVIOUS MEETINGS There was no Old Business to discuss at this time. NEW BUSINESS Disusio/Comider.ation of Nominations to the Dare County Tourism Board Town Manager Drew Havens was recognized to speak. Town Manager Havens stated that Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau's term as the Town's representative to the Dare County Tourism Board expires on December 31, 2024. He stated that the Dare County Commissioners were requesting the names of three Council members to be nominated for the position. He noted that Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau was not eligible for Councilor Whitman nominated Councilor Chasen. Councilor Lingard nominated Mayor Kingston moved to nominate Councilors Chasen, Lingard, and Whitman to the reappointment. Councilor Whitman. Councilor Chasen nominated Councilor Lingard. Dare County Tourism Board. Motion carried 5-0. 33 Dseusion/Comideration of Authorizing Staff to Work with the Planning Board on Director Heard stated that after working with different aspects of the Town Code over the past year, Community Development staff identified several text amendments that can be considered to correct errors or better address important issues. He stated that staff asked the Planning Board to consider the issues at their October 9, 2024 meeting. He added that at this time, the Planning Board and staff were asking for the Council's authorization to work with Town Attorney Hobbs, as necessary, on the development of potential ordinance text amendments for off-site pumping, outdoor lighting, nonconforming signs, Councilor Chasen moved to authorize staff to work on several text amendments with the Several' Text Amendments tree ordinance violations, and special use permit procedures. Planning Board as presented. Motion carried 5-0. ATTORNEY ITEMS REFERRED TO AND PRESENTATIONS FROM THE TOWN Town Attorney Hobbs stated he had nothing to report. ITEMS REFERRED TO AND PRESENTATIONS FROM THE TOWN MANAGER Departmental Updates Public Information and Events Coordinator Kristiana Nickens was recognized to speak. Director Nickens gave a brief overview of activities to Council and the audience. Police Chief Jeffrey Ackerman was recognized to speak. Police Chief Ackerman briefo overview of the past month's police activities to Council and the audience. gave Fire Chief Donna Black was recognized to speak. Fire Chief Black gave a brief overview Director Heard gave a brief overview of the past month's s permit activities to Council and a of the past month's fire activities to Council and the audience. the audience. September FY 2025 Financial Presentation financials to Council and the audience. Town Manager Havens gave a short presentation on the September Fiscal Year 2025 34 MAYOR'S AGENDA Mayor Kingston stated that the mayors/chairmen meeting will be on November 19, 2024 hosted by the Town of Kill Devil Hills. He stated that the Dare County Board of Commissioners were re-elected with three new members. COUNCIL MEMBER'S AGENDA Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau thanked staff for the Trunk or Treat that was recently held. She stated that she would be attending a Tourism Board annual summit in Manteo at the Pioneer Theater on November 7, 2024. Councilor Lingard thanked staff for staying for the long meeting. Councilor Whitman stated he had nothing to report. Councilor Chasen stated that on October 14, 2024, she and Councilor Whitman met with the Public Safety stakeholders and the architectural firm to start moving forward on some plans with it. She stated that Dills Architects have started their analysis and planning phase and were working towards requirements. She stated that on October 29, 2024, she attended the Government Access Channel Committee meeting, giving a short overview of the meeting to Council and the audience. OTHER BUSINESS Additional Public Comments Mayor Kingston opened the floor for public comments. There being no one wishing to Mayor Kingston noted that the next meeting would be the Regular meeting on comment, Mayor Kingston closed the time for public comments. Wednesday, December 4, 2024 at 1:00 p.m. ADJOURNMENT Councilor Whitman moved to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried 5-0. The time was 6:11 p.m. Town Clerk dE Approved: hopgzus NOKTIICAROUINA Bx 35 Don Kingston, Mayor 36