MINUTES November 12,2024 PAGE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION Members Present Member Absent Staff] Present Josh Hahn Call to Order Catherine Grech, Secretary, District 1 Jared Burner, Chairman, District3 William Turner, Vice Chairman, District 5 Chris Adams, District 2 Susan Kile, District 4 Cassie Richards Chairman Burner called the November 12, 2024 Page County Planning Commission Regular Meeting to orderi in thel Board of Supervisors (BOS)) Room located at the Page County Government Center, 103 S Court Street, Luray, Virginia at 7:00 p.m. The call to order was followed by The Pledge of Allegiance and a Moment of Silence. Chairman Burner reminded all commissioners and speakers to please turn on and/or speak into the microphones. Mr. Hahn conducted an attendance roll call. Adoption of Agenda Ms. Grech made a motion to adopt the agenda as presented. Mr. Adams seconded the motion. Chairman Burner asked all those ini favor to signify by saying "aye," and there were: audible "ayes." He asked all those opposed to signify like sign, and there was no opposition voiced. Chairman Burner stated the agenda was adopted as presented. Citizen Comments on Agenda Items 1. Ken Johnson: I'd like to reference a letter from Heidi and Matt Cahill found in the last few pages ofy your packet. The Cahills are discussing geodesic domes. Ihaven'ti formed an opinion regarding domes yet. Pd like to talk about the Cahill's letter from the perspective of STR's generally. Our regulations were designed in the era of locally owned STRs built around an auxiliary structure on owner occupied properties or locally owned and managed businesses. These rules permitted a mingling of residential and commercial use because the density and frequency was presumed to be low. These owners were presumed to be concerned with their happiness in their home or nearby property and with building healthy relationships with their neighbors. These STR owners had an implicit investment in our community. As the Cahills letter demonstrates, today Page County is being used as an investment vehicle by a national and worldwide STR industry. This is not wrong or inherently harmful. It has benefits, as they suggest. But it is different and must be managed differently. People think about investment vehicles differently than they do their homes. They are chiefly concerned with minimizing costs and maximizing return on investment. Venture investors do not manage for the longt term health ofr neighborhoods, communal values such as rural character or the cumulative impact of neighborhoods. Someone using Page County as an investment vehicle is motivated toj place as many structures as possible on a piece of land, build as cheaply as possible and churn occupancy as often as possible. It is a commercial decision, different from the choices motivated by building one's own home or a sustainable small business. Consequently, It think we should take the Cahill's suggestions on managing commercial investment vehicles in our rural neighborhoods. In the 5th paragraph they tell us: "For example the County could Planning Commission Minutes- November 12, 2024 implement regulations requiring specific acreage. minimums, setback distances or restrictions on sight lines."7 That is good advice. Our regulations in Ag and Woodland Conservation permit dense development not typically thought of as rural. But the Page County residents in those neighborhoods put their money where their hopes for a good life lie. They bought and maintained large parcels to provide them with the rural life they desire. Our regulations should help them maintain those neighborhoods. Thank you. New Business A. Adoption of Minutes- October 8, 2024 Chairman Burner allowed some time for any necessary changes to be noted. Mr. Hahn noted that the date on the first page should be corrected to October 8, 2024. No other changes were noted. Ms. Kile made a motion to adopt the minutes dated October 8, 2024, as amended. Mr. Adams seconded the motion. Chairman Burner asked all those in favor to signify by saying "aye,"and there were audible "ayes."] He asked all those opposed to signify like sign, andt there was no opposition voiced. Chairman Burner stated the minutes were adopted as amended. Mr. Hahn stated hel had asked Chairman Burner to allow stafft time to provide a brief summary ofar meeting Tracy Clatterbuck and he had attended the previous week in Rockingham County. He referençed a document he had provided to the Commission as a supplement to the packet, which he also displayed on the screen. Rockingham County hosts pre-application meetings twice per month. Ifthey don'thave any applicants, they will cancel the meeting. This ist time that the Health Department, VDOT, Planning, Zoning, and Building staff, and their Fire Marshall set aside as a free service to applicants for SUPs, rezonings, and the types oft things that the Planning Commission reviews, or in the case of subdivisions, what Mr. Hahn reviews and approves. There are several benefits to having these meetings. Ity was helpful for applicants to have all oft the facts all at once, sO there are: fewer points of communication. Because this is a free service to an applicant early int the process, it decreases risk of premature investment in aj project that should not move Itwas helpful for applicants to hear directly from agency experts, with more opportunity: for back-and-forth questions and answers, sO there is less opportunity for Itv was helpful for agencies to fully understand other agencies' requirements, and how those requirements might impact various alternatives the applicant was considering. For example, al Building Code requirement prompted the consideration ofa separate bathroom in a new location, which led the Health Department representative to offer updated considerations; a VDOT requirement required reconsideration of entrance locations, which prompted Planning stafft to provide various options for divisions to Itwasl helpful for various departments to become more familiar with the expectations Iwould be helpful for the Planning Commission and the Board of Supervisors to know that agencies have properly and collectively vetted applications early int the Mr. Hahn noted that he doesn'tneed any action by the Planning Commission. He wanted to keep the Commission aware. He has already spoken with VDOT, the Health Department, the B. Staffl Report on Rockingham County Pre-Application Meetings forward OR should be adjusted in! key ways. miscommunication. the property. ofother departments, and helps build working relationships. process. Page 2 of8 Planning Commission Minutes- November 12, 2024 Building Official, and the Emergency Services Director, who would somewhat be our substitute for al Fire Marshall, and they all love the idea. He noted that Rockingham County doesn't have al Planning Commission attend these meetings, but he thinks this might also be a Chairman Burner stated he thinks it's a good idea. He doesn't know how regularly there will be applicants, but he thinks it would be beneficial to have the option. Mr. Hahn noted that if the County ended up requiring VDOT approval for divisions, it may not be ar requirement to have these pre-application meetings for simple divisions. But it would be available to them as Ms. Kile asked ifs staff had a sense from Rockingham County ofhow often this service is utilized. Mr. Hahn answered that they had three applications at the meeting they attended. He guessed that there is some tendency to group them, but theyl have the load [toj justify] having meetings every two weeks. Staff would only do it once per month, at least to start off with. Staff! had planned to attend a meeting two weeks prior, but that meeting ended up being cançelled. He has the sense that they don't frequently cancel meetings. Ms. Grech stated she thinks it makes total sense. She thinks from the standpoint of the Planning Commission, it might streamline the process, meaning mistakes, discrepancies, errors, omissions may be caught earlier on. That would make it easier on the Commission. She thinks it is a great idea. She stated she is happy to volunteer as a Commissioner once they good idea. The goals are obvious. He asked for feedback. ai free service. start this process. Unfinished Business A. Isaac George III- Special Usel Permit (Introduction) Ms. Richards introduced special use permit to operate a Ridging Stables/Academies. Isaac George III (Ms. Richards stated going forward the applicant for this application would bel IBR Corp.) has filed an application for a special use permit to operate a riding stables/academies located at 2948 Oak Forest Ln., Luray, VA, and further identified by tax map number 50-(A)- 65. This property contains 36.718 acres and is zoned as Agricultural (A-1). The applicant is proposing to operate al riding stableslacademies out ofexistingl horse stables thati is3 3,000 square feet and (2) shelters that are 100 square feet. The applicant will offer horse training, trail riding, boarding, and grooming. Proposed parking for the business will be located at end of Oak Ln. Section 125-10.D (26) of the Page County Zoning Ordinance states that riding stables or academies require a special use permit in the Agriculture (A-1) zoning district. Staff has attached a copy of Section 125-30.18 A &B (Riding stables or academies) oft the Page County Zoning Ordinance, which include the supplemental regulations for this use. Virginia Department ofTransportationf (VDOT) - Per. JeffNicely, Virginia Department of Transportation Land Development Engineer: "The proposed use is not expected tol have a negative impact to state route (Rt. 644- - Oak Forrest Lane) and adjacent state route (Rt. 616-Leaksville Rd). The entrance from the site to the state route meets the required VDOT low volume commercial entrance standard based on expected traffic generation with no additional improvements required. The site sketch does show a proposed parking area at the end ofOak Forest Lane. This parking area may not be within any portion oft the Rt. 644 (Oak Forest Lane) right of way."Mr. as shown on the plat provided. Page 3of8 Planning Commission Minutes- November 12, 2024 Nicely noted: *. .VDOT: reserves the right to require additional modifications as warranted by the site-specific conditions." He further noted that "Ifany work is required on VDOT right-of-way, a VDOT Land Use Permit is required." . Please see Health Department- PerLynn Strickler with the Health Department: "This office has no objections to the Special Use Permit for a horse boaninggrpomingtmainng Building Official- Per. James Campbell, Page County Building Official, "OK with using the structure for Riding Stables on the condition that requested structural The applicant will be required to maintain a Page County business license which will Ms. Richards stated that an updated sketch was attached that was not included in the packet that was handed out. Mr. Hahn did clarify that the updated site plan did not show anything new as far as the plan, it was updated because of geometry for the parcel was updated subsequent to the original application to try to improve parcel Mr. Hahn read from the Comprehensive Plan review section oft the memo. He: noted that only one dwelling (2879 Oak Forrest Ln.) is located within 500 feet ofthe property line of5 50-(A)-65, not including dwellings within the property. Planning staff opinion is that this proposed use would conform to the goals and policies of the Comprehensive Plan. The Planning Commission and Board of Supervisors should consider any concerns raised during the public comment period when drafting Ms. Richards stated that next date for public hearing would be December 10th, 2024. Mr. Hahn stated that would be the next date available for the public hearing and the only one available before the New Year should the Commission choose to schedule it. Ms. Richards stated the applicant had representation available to speak ift there were any questions. Chairman Burner asked ift there was any questions, comments or concerns. Mr. Adams asked ifall property was all fenced in. Applicant representation Tony Villa answered that yes, the property is completely fenced in with access gates leading to the adjacent IBR properties. Mr. Adams asked ifOak Forest Ln is stated- maintained. Mr. Villa answered that VDOT does come and maintain the road but he really doesn't know. Mr. Adams stated that they plan on parking in cul-de-sac area. Mr. Villa stated that is on IBR property. Chairman Burner asked how many parking spots would there be. Mr. Villa answered that five would be busy day for what they are talking about. Chairman Burner asked if people be bringing their horses on site or will [the horses] be on site. Mr. Villa answered both - they are. next to our residence that is used as a short-term rental, Carriage Stone Farm. Their hope is that guests will attached letter. center." engineer evaluation report is ok with structure." result in tax revenue for the county. accuracy. conditions for this SUP. Page 4 of8 Planning Commission Minutes- November: 12, 2024 stay at the farm and board their horses or have experiences with our horses. Chairman Burner asked ifthey are bringing vehicles with trailers ini there with only five spaces requested, is there enough room. The Commission would need tol know: ifthey were to expand. Mr. Villa expressed they have ample enough room in that area for parking. Ms. Grech asked for sense ofi relationship between Issac George, IBR, and Madeline Farms. Mr. Villa explained he was Mr. George's partner and Dylan Taylor and Mr. Villa would be working with Mr. George to open Rocking T Ranch. Ms. Grech stated that Ms. Richards had referred to ai mistake that Issac George has filed an application. Ms. Grech stated that legally there is a big difference between someone that is an officer or director ofI IBR - the land is owned by IBR and the SUP application needs to be in the landowner's name. Ms. Grech asked about relationship between IBR/Madeline Farms. Are they two distinct business entities? Mr. Villa answered Issac is officer ofIBR Corp., which is the owner ofthe land and the principal owner for Madeline Farms LLC, and essentially acts as a tenant to IBR in operating the business. Mr. Grech stated they should make clear IBR and its assigns or IBR/ Madeline Farms. But on no account should the SUP or even the application refer to Mr. George as an individual because that's not what we are talking about. Ms. Grech stated that is for the benefit ofs staff; when a business chooses to operate as a business Ms. Grech asked ift the building on the property that is indicated 2948, is the residence a short-term rental, as well. Mr. Villa answered yes. Ms. Grech asked ifthe parking spacing will be used by short-term rental, by the applicant/staff, and, and by customers of the new stables business. Mr. Villa answered yes. Ms. Grech asked if this parking was distinct from the parking for the new business. Mr. Villa answered yes. Ms. Grech stated 2850 on site plan looks like it is not used. Mr. Villa stated that isc correct - it an old barn. Ms. Grech asked ift the trails are entirely contained in the fenced-in area. Mr. Villa answered yes, they are. Ms. Grech had some comments about the staffr report - the uses they intend to offer include horse training, trail riding, and grooming. She asked ift that is all. Mr. Villa answered in addition to that they are interested in developing an educational program where guests interact with the horses, learn about the anatomy of the horse, and learn how to communicate with a horse effectively. Ms. Grech asked ifth they are planning any events. Mr. Villa Ms. Grech referred to $ 125-30.18 ofthe Zoning Ordinance. Each riding stable or academy shall be set back a minimum of 150 feet from property lines and a minimum of100 feet from the travel surface of public roadways. Ms. Grech stated it appears to her that Oak Forest Ln. is aj public roadway, sO she would like to make sure they meet setbacks. Ms. Grech asked Mr. Hahn if you have measured those setbacks. Mr. Hahn answered yes that was part of the process and reason for the geometry of the parcel to be updated subsequent to the original application to try to improve parcel accuracy. Ms. Grech asked ifs staff was okay with that. Mr. Hahn answered yes, they are, remembering that this is a sketch and not a plat. Ms. Grech noted S 125-30.18 states the owner of the stable shall submit as part oft the application aj plan for waste usually it's for a reason not a sole proprietorship. answered no. Page 5of8 Planning Commission Minutes- November: 12, 2024 disposal, parking, and any planned activities and events. She requested a plan for waste disposal, planned activities, and the educational activities be put in writing. Ms. Grech referred to the definition of riding stables/academies: a building, group of buildings, or use ofland, or any combination thereof, used for the sheltering, care, riding, training, or showing ofh horses. The facility may include the sale of tack and related accessories items. Structures may include barns, stables, corrals, and paddocks. Per definition as it states now, unless a condition would be made, they could have horse shows and event to in could sale oftack and related accessories. They should make it clear regarding the scope ofactivities sO the Commission can Ms. Grech asked about the connection between the farm stay at Madeline Farms off Antioch Rd and the second farm stay, Carriage Stone Farms, off Oak Forest Ln. Dylan Taylor explained that they are looking to offer equine therapy, which would be open to any customer. Mr. Taylor explained the process ofintroducing customers to the horse through grooming, teaching them howi toi interact through body language. Mr. Hahn stated the impact ofi future growth of the business could impact the SUP and parking, which a future Zoning Administrator would be called to enforce. Mr. Hahn suggested they include future expansion now instead of coming back to do a reapplication process. Mr. Hahn stated that building/expansion to things that are not shown on site plan may end up not in conformance to the SUP. Planning Commissioners expressed how important it is to include everything now versus Mr. Adams asked ift they would be insured. Mr. Villa answered yes, absolutely. They are looking into policies now. Ms. Kile asked ifthere are any plans to utilize the adjacent IBR properties as this venture. Mr. Villa answered that there are no plans to expand to adjacent properties as they are used for cattle. Ms. Kile asked should the use oft the adjaçent properties change, would they expand trails onto them. Mr. Villa stated no, they are more about that cowgirl/cowboy experience connecting with Chairman Burner requested to hear back from the applicant on the requested materials from the Planning Commission. Ms. Richards asked the Commissioners ifthere were any conditions they would like staff to work on. Ms. Grech asked for their activities tol be summarized in a condition. Chairman Burner stated they would wait to set a B. Zoning Ordinance Amendments: Chapter 125-4 (Camping Yurts, Domes, Tiny Home Mr. Hahn stated that Ms. Clatterbuck had mentioned at the last meeting that staff had been working with the County Attorney on a draft of these proposed amendments. He stated there was al lot ofback-and-forth with Mr. Helm, who expressed some ofthe same concerns that this Commission has had over the course of several meetings, which staff worked through make sure it's included in your conditions. Then there is an educational and inspirational experience. coming back later. horses. There are noj plans to expand trails. public hearing. Dwellings) Page 6 of8 Planning Commission Minutes- November 12, 2024 collectively. Eventually Mr. Helm had a few minor edits, which are reflectedi in the latest draft. But fort the whole, at least from al legal perspective, Mr. Helm agreed that what we were trying Mr. Hahn read the new definition for "DOME AND YURT, CAMPING": "A spherical structure commonly used for recreational purposes.Such: structures are generally designed with af framework that supports a flexible outer covering, typically made of durable, weather- resistant material. Domes and Camping Yurts shall only be permitted in campgrounds in accordance with Chapter 128 oft the Page County Code."Mr. Hahn noted that the Commission isp probably wondering whya use allowance isi in the definition. Iti is difficult to specify the kind ofo conditional use within the uses [section of the Zoning Ordinance]. He stated he was happy to hear an alternative way of doing this. Ms. Grech agreed with Mr. Hahn. Conceptually, she doesn't like it when we mix up a use with a definition, but shei isn'ts sure that shel has a solution. She'll think about it. We have a definition for "dome and yurt, camping. . She asked, what about a dome orayurt that is not destined for camping? She stated, if she is not mistaken, there is one yurt which is a permanent dwelingresidence in the County. Mr. Hahn stated he is not sure if that's true, but they have talked about one that exists in Tanner's Ridge. Ms. Grech stated that this yurt would not fall within this definition; it would fall under the definition of dwelling. Mr. Hahn confirmed, adding that this is how we are interpreting it today, and staffis not recommending any change to that interpretation. Mr. Grech stated that they would not then need a second definition for "dome and yurt, non-camping." That would just fall under the Mr. Hahn noted that they also proposed to add DWELLING, TINY HOME" under the Dwelling definition. This definition is the same as "SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED DWELLING" except that it does not have the provision for manufactured homes "The home shall be erected at least 20 feet in width and 40 feet in length." Ms. Grech asked what the significance was: for 400: square feet. Mr. Hahn stated that hel believes thisi is in reference to the Building Code's definition of tiny homes. She asked ift this had been to legal, and Mr. Hahn confirmed. There was further discussion, and ultimately agreement with the draft. Mr. Hahn noted where tiny home dwellings had been added throughout the document. This In Wodland-Conservation and Agriculture, tiny home dwellings were added where single-family detached dwellings already existed as by-right uses. Inl Residential, tiny home dwellings would be allowed by SUP. Ini this district, single- family detached dwellings are allowed, by-right. Mr. Hahn noted that it may be worth considering making stick-built tiny homes al by-right use, which they currently would be. Chairman Burner asked if, in the Residential District, do we really want a tiny home? He recommended leaving it [as drafted). Ms. Grech agreed. Mr. Hahn stated it might be easier to differentiate ifv wel had different types ofl Residential zoning districts. In Commercial and Industrial, tiny homes have not been allowed as a use. Ms. Grech stated this was appropriate. Chairman Burner agreed = we don't really want to have residential development in the Commercial and Industrial districts. Mr. Hahn noted that we allow single-family dwellings in Commercial. Chairman Burner agreed, but he doesn't think we should allow tiny homes in that scenario. Ms. Grech expressed to do would work. definition of dwelling. Mr. Hahn agreed. was reviewed int the draft. agreement. Page7of8 Planning Commission Minutes- November12,2024 Ms. Grech stated she thinks this document is good as it is. This is a document that the Commission and staffhave worked on for quite a few months. She made a motion to schedule apublicl hearing. Mr. Hahn noted that the only date this could be scheduled in December would bel December 10. Chairman Burner asked ifthat was the motion, and Mr. Hahn confirmed. Mr. Adams seconded the motion. Chairman Burner asked Mr. Hahn to conduct a roll call. The motion passed unanimously (4-0). C. Comprehensive Plan Subcommittee Report Mr. Grech noted that Supervisor Cubbage has agreed to replace outgoing Supervisor Smelser on the subcommittee. The subcommittee is meeting this Thursday. She deferred to Mr. Hahn regarding the last meeting, while she was out of the area. Mr. Hahn added that the focus ofthe last meeting was on surveys. Chris Anderson is leading those efforts. Eventually the subcommittee members present decided to form a work group to work on a draft survey. That work group did meet the previous Friday, and they are working virtually on a document to present to the full subcommittee this Thursday at 6 p.m. He also noted that the Zoning Subcommittee also has an upcoming meeting on the following Tuesday at 4 p.m. 1. Ken Johnson: Pd like to return to the question of managing short-term rentals. The issue of visual and sound privacy, mentioned: in the Cahills letter, is an important one when commercial investment properties are mingled with traditional rural neighborhoods. Previously the Commission has discussed the option ofa wide natural or planted vegetated buffer around the entire acreage. This has been criticized as a blunt solution, potentially needlessly expensive and difficult to administer. A reasonable option may be to require that a landscape architect prepare a plan for all SUP proposals for STR's in rural neighborhoods. We rely upon professional, judgement in many phases of development, such as structural, soils, and electrical engineering. We do this to ensure licensed professionals make defensible judgements and to insulate County staff from decisions they are not accredited to make. A landscape plan could be designed to meet four objectives: 1) Provide reasonable visual screening between the curtilages of the proposed SUP and neighboring curtilages; 2) Provide reasonable sound protection between the curtilages; 3) Preserve the rural nature of the community; 4) Limit the spread ofwildfire. Iti is likely that the customers and owners will benefit from this approach as much as the neighbors and community. The Commission could use the landscape plan, and the extent to which it would or would not mitigate the concerns ofthe community when evaluating the proposed SUP. He thanked the Commission, and thanked them for the work that they do. Open Citizen Comment Period Chairman's Report Clerk's Report Adjourn Chairman Burner had no report. Mr. Hahn had no report. Ms. Grech madea a motion to adjourn. Mr. Adams seconded the motion. Chairman Burner adjourned the meeting at 7:56 p.m. Lhsed CBaNs - Jared Burner, Chairman Page 8 of8