1  1 2 3 4  OLD FORGE BOROUGH COUNCIL OLD FORGE, PENNSYLVANIA  5 IN RE: REGULAR MEETING OF COUNCIL  6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  APRIL 20, 2021 7:00 P.M.  OLD FORGE MUNICIPAL BUILDING 314 SOUTH MAIN STREET OLD FORGE, PENNSYLVANIA  COUNCIL MEMBERS: RUSSELL RINALDI LOUIS FEBBO RICK NOTARI JAMES HOOVER MICHAEL LETTIERI MICHELLE AVVISATO  WILLIAM RINALDI, ESQUIRE, SOLICITOR MARYLYNN BARTOLETTI, BOROUGH MANAGER  Mark Wozniak Official Court Reporter    2  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Good evening,  ladies and gentlemen. I'd like to call the meeting to order with the Pledge of  Allegiance.  (The Pledge of Allegiance was  recited.)  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Roll call,  please, Marylynn.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato?  MS. AVVISATO: Here.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo?  MR. FEBBO: Here.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover?  MR. HOOVER: Present. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Lettieri?  MR. LETTIERI: Present.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari?  MR. NOTARI: Present.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi? MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Here.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Semenza  is absent.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Once again,    3  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the 01d Forge Borough regular meeting of April 20th.  First of all, let us apologize. We  had an executive session since about ten to six. We had a couple private personnel matters we had to deal with. I apologize for myself and the rest of the board.  We have a public sign-in sheet. We  have a couple people, if they'd like to sign in, or at the end of the meeting you can address us if you didn't sign in.  We're going to go to some of our  department heads, we'11 hear from our borough manager, our council members, our mayor, and then we'11 go into public comment  and then go into new business.  With that said, we'11 begin the  meeting with our first motion, and that's a motion to approve the minutes from the last  meeting.  MS. AVVISATO: I'11 make that  motion, Mr. Chairman.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: By  Councilwoman Avvisato.  MR. FEBBO: I'17 second it.    4  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Second by  Councilman Febbo. On the question? Public input? Roll call, please, Marylynn.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato?  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo?  MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover?  MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Lettieri?  MR. LETTIERI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari?  MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi? MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Yes. Item  number two is motion to approve treasurer's report. Please note this does not include  the sewer account.  MR. FEBBO: I'11 make that motion. MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: By Councilman  Febbo.  MR. HOOVER: I'11 second it. MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Seconded by    5  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Councilman Hoover. On the question? Public  input? Roll call, please.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato?  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo?  MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover?  MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Lettieri?  MR. LETTIERI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari?  MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi? MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Yes. The  third item is motion to approve invoices for payment. Once again, please note this does  not include the sewer account.  MS. AVVISATO: I'11 make that  motion.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: By  Councilwoman Avvisato.  MR. HOOVER: I'11 second it. MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Seconded by    6  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Councilman Hoover. On the question? Public input? Roll call, please, Marylynn.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato?  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo?  MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover?  MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Lettieri?  MR. LETTIERI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari?  MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi? MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Yes. Fourth  item is motion to approve sewer department  financial reports.  MR. NOTARI: I'11 make that motion. MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: By Councilman  Notari.  MR. LETTIERI: I'17 second it. MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Seconded by  Councilman Lettieri. On the question? Public input? Roll call, please, Marylynn.    7  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato?  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo?  MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover?  MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Lettieri?  MR. LETTIERI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari?  MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi? MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Yes. Our  fifth item is motion to approve sewer department invoices for payment.  MR. NOTARI: I'17 make that motion. MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: By Councilman  Notari.  MR. LETTIERI: I'11 second it. MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Seconded by  Councilman Lettieri. On the question? Public input? Roll call, please, Marylynn.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato?    8  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo?  MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover?  MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Lettieri?  MR. LETTIERI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari?  MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. - BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi? MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Yes. We're  going to go to our department heads.  Everyone has code enforcement/zoning officer Paul Papi's report. Paul's not here.  Second is our DEP manager's report,  Joe Lenceski. He's not here.  MS. BARTOLETTI: He said he might be  late.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Also, we have  his report in our packet. If anyone has any questions for either Paul or Joe, unless Joe shows up, we can e-mail it to them.  Dave, right to you for the  engineer's report. We have your report in    9  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  the packet, but anything for us?  MR. LOPATKA: I have nothing to add. MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Okay. Any  council remembers have anything for Dave?  MS. AVVISATO: Except for the  borough building looks beautiful.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Definitely  looking good. Thanks, Dave.  Chief Dubernas, police report, we  have it in the packet. Anything else?  CHIEF DUBERNAS: If I can have a  ten-minute executive afterwards.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Absolutely.  Anybody have any questions for the chief?  MS. AVVISATO: I just want to bring  something up. Chief, I know you know about the incident on East Morton Street, the speeding. Is there any way that we can get  a stop sign?  CHIEF DUBERNAS: Where are you  looking for it?  MS. AVVISATO: It's so bad. When I  tell you a car went by there like a hundred  when I was walking my dog.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: On East Morton    10  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  where?  MS. AVVISATO: What corner is it,  Sue Court? When you're coming down Morton Street, the hill. It's just getting sO bad that a lot of people are : they want to come to the meeting and I said let me see what I can do first. If you can check it for me I'd really appreciate it. Thanks,  Chief.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Anybody else  have anything for the chief? Thanks, Chief.  Bill, solicitor's report?  ATTY. RINALDI: Tonight for passage  you have a resolution to exercise the borough's option to purchase the former Saint Lawrence Church located at 620 South Main Street, which is lot two on the  subdivision plan, consisting of 1.154 acres, for the sum of $60,000 plus closing costs. That's for passage tonight, if you soO  choose.  Also, approve a request for  proposals to ask for a submission to update our zoning and planning ordinances because it's been quite some time. That's on the    11  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  list for approval.  Also, I need to lock in some dates  for a public hearing on a proposed zoning ordinance change. The proposed zoning ordinance would be to extend the C-2 district into an R-2 district which  encompasses three lots. One parcel is owned by Bell Enterprises, parcel two is owned by PPL and parcel three are PPL. A11 three parcels are Railroad Avenue and Edith Street. So you're extending the C-2 zone to cover those parcels and make them C-2 as  well.  You have to have a public hearing on  that proposed ordinance. I think what Marylynn and I are proposing is you have it on May 4th, before the work session. You can still hold the work session after. So if you want to have it at 6:00, 6:30, 7:00 and hold the work session after that.  Then after that I will advertise the  proposed ordinance for two successive weeks. So it can be up for passage on the new meeting date, which I think you're going to  change to May 25th.    12  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: That's the  following week after Election Day.  ATTY. RINALDI: The other item you  just want to authorize Marylynn to put out to bid and how long you want to put out to bid is the garbage bid. I think we usually gave them 30 days in the past. So we can advertise that and open the bids maybe at the May 25th hearing or before, whatever's good for you. We can open them and review them, and then you can vote on them at a special meeting on the 25th. So what we can do is have a return date maybe of Friday, the 21st. So we can do a return date for the 24th, at 1:00, at least give us time to review them, and then have council open them  on the 25th.  MR. NOTARI: Did we not vote at a  meeting to extend the current contract for a  year?  ATTY. RINALDI: They wouldn't do it.  So I want to try and get that out as well.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Two questions.  The last two items you just read, do you have those for the meeting sO I can read    13  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  them off at the end? I'17 read them.  ATTY. RINALDI: I can give them to  you.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: I ( don't have  them.  MR. HOOVER: In regard to Saint  Lawrence's Church, what do we pay in utility bills? What does the church pay monthly in  utilities bills?  MS. BARTOLETTI: This is very vague  information that I received from the church, but it looks like they pay $1,000 a year in general for the elevator, looks like their PPL was $6,600, the gas was $4,400, the water was about $700, and they didn't have a figure for me on the insurance or anything  else. That's for 2019.  MR. HOOVER: The $4,400 was the gas?  MS. BARTOLETTI: Yes.  MR. FEBBO: I had a break down from  Sal Luzio a while back on every month. It ran about $1,000 to $1,200 for all  utilities.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: A month?  MR. FEBBO: Yes.    14  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. HOOVER: Okay, say $1,200. MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: It's $12,000 a  year.  MR. HOOVER: So how are we going to  pay these utilities without knowing what we're going to do with the building?  MR. FEBBO: Well, let's get in the  building first, get it under our belt.  MR. HOOVER: We're just going to  keep paying utilities until we decide what we're going to do with the building? I  don't understand that.  MR. FEBBO: I think we kind of have  a pretty good idea of what we're going to do with it. We have a lot of input as to what we're going to do with it for the community, for overall use. For anything and everything. Just a matter of getting all the organizations in the community together, recreation and sO on, social, because it's not definitive use for it, it's multiple uses. That's why it's called community.  MR. HOOVER: So we're just going to  eat the $12,000 a year :  MR. FEBBO: No, maybe temporarily    15  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  until we get up and running with it. Russ, correct me if I'm wrong. You rented a converted church up in Mayfield someplace  for your baseball team?  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Yes.  MR. FEBBO: Cost $240 for two hours  for your team, and you had to wait for a team to get off the court before you got in on? There was another team waiting for you  to get off to get on?  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Yes.  MR. FEBBO: So that generated about  $1,000 for that facility in one day.  There's ways of making money. You just have  to be a little creative.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: There's  definitively ways of making money. I don't want to interrupt either one of you, but I'm just curious as far as let's just say : Marylynn, are we budgeted right now for the sale of the church and for, lets just say, one potential year of us paying an average  of $12,000 in bills?  MS. BARTOLETTI: Definitely budgeted  for the church, yes. It was part of our    16  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  2021 budget.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Are we  budgeted for $12,000 right now for :  MS. BARTOLETTI: We are budgeted for  some expenses that go with it.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Jimmy, I  understand your question completely.  ATTY. RINALDI: The only other thing  V would add is if you want somebody to go through that building. We have 90 days to close. I mean, normally you'd inspect it. It think Dave is one who could inspect it. I  don't think you need :  MS. AVVISATO: It wasn't inspected  yet?  MR. LOPATKA: We went through it  over a year ago.  MR. HOOVER: Does it need any basic  stuff?  MR. LOPATKA: It's been a while. MR. FEBBO: I was there a month or  so ago and in the basement there's a pipe leaking. Small leak. If you're going down there check that out. That's the only thing  that I saw that needed anything.    17  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ATTY. RINALDI: Once you buy it, you  buy it. If you want to look at it before  you have 90 days.  MS. AVVISATO: Can. we table this? MR. HOOVER: I think we should have  Dave go look at it.  MR. NOTARI: I don't think we can  table it.  ATTY. RINALDI: You have 90 days  from February 18th. So you'd have to have a  special meeting before :  MR. NOTARI: We have 19 days. MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Wouldn't we  get it in by May 4th for our special meeting  for the hearing?  MR. NOTARI: Yes.  ATTY. RINALDI: You can do that. MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Dave, can you  get down there and inspect it before our special meeting? We're going to make a motion tonight for a special meeting for May  4th.  ATTY. RINALDI: Special meeting for  public hearing and if you wanted to have  your work session.    18  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. FEBBO: See, here again, guys,  this is all hindsight. We had four years to get this done. We had 90 days to get this done, and here we are going to vote on it tonight, and now we come up with an issue like we should have it inspected first. Why wasn't this all brought to the table before  tonight?  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: That's a good  question. I can't answer that.  MR. FEBBO: It's like the old  quarter machine. You put the quarter machine out, six months later that quarter falls off the table and you pick it up and put it back in again. We do the same thing  every meeting.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: It's only 14  more days, Lou.  MS. AVVISATO: I'm only here a year.  I just want to make sure there's no problem.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Do you think  we should have it inspected before we buy  it?  MS. AVVISATO: I - do.  MR. FEBBO: Sure. It should have    19  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  been done 90 days ago. It should have been  done four years ago.  MR. HOOVER: I'm just saying, you  said there's a leaky pipe there. You were there two weeks ago. Maybe somebody should have said there's a leaky pipe there, we should do something. There's probably mold there, wherever it is, if it's still  leaking. That's the only thing that brought it to my attention. That's all I have.  ATTY. RINALDI: Dave's got plans you  need to sign. We approved the subdivision for the school and the sale of that property for a dollar. We just need to get the plans signed sO we can record them. I'm assuming the school district still wants it. I  haven't heard anything.  MR. NOTARI: They want it, all  right. I get into a weekly discussion with  my brother.  ATTY. RINALDI: That's all I have. MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: I - have one  question. Although we're going to ask Dave to go down and inspect it, can we make a motion tonight and have a stipulation on it    20  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  that if it passes inspection, or if we make the motion tonight to buy the church that's  it, we bought it?  ATTY. RINALDI: No, we can add that  in here contingent on an inspection from your engineer. You can do that. We can put  that contingency in there.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Are you guys  okay with that or wait until the 4th?  MR. HOOVER: Sooner the better. You  can put that in the motion, yes.  MR. NOTARI: Just wait until the  4th.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: A11 right.  MR. LETTIERI: Wait. MR. NOTARI: Let him do the  inspection.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: I'm good  either way. Bill, anything else?  ATTY. RINALDI: That's it.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Anybody have  anything for Bill? Thanks, Bill.  Joe, we have your report, and nobody  had any questions because you weren't here. But if anybody has any now or if you have    21  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  anything for us.  MR. LENCESKI: I apologize for being  late.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Anything for  us?  MR. LENCESKI: No, I don't. MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Anybody have  anything for Joe? Thanks, Joe.  Marylynn, borough manager's report. MS. BARTOLETTI: I'11 start with my  financial reports. Does anyone have any questions on them? Okay. Just a reminder that on the 25th, when we have our meeting in May, we're going to have a hearing for CDBG for future money that we'11 be getting from them. Just something for you to think  about.  Since we'17 be moving soon out of  senior center back into the new borough building do we want to use money that we have to renovate the senior center, because it's getting a little beat up, or do you want to put that through as another CDBG expense? Right now we're using CDBG money to pay for the elevator, but we'17 still    22  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  have our current money that we would be  allowed to use.  So we just have to figure out how  you want to handle it. Whether you want to use possibly ASL money or if you wanted to  use CDBG.  MR. FEBBO: Do we have a  guesstimated cost on that?  MS. BARTOLETTI: No.  MR. NOTARI: My opinion, I would say  CDBG.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: I would say  that as well.  MS. BARTOLETTI: It is one of the  possible uses, and it is going to definitely  need some renovation.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Bill, are we  going to have to put that on the agenda  tonight for that?  MS. - BARTOLETTI: No, we have time on  it.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: No, for the  hearing on the CDBG.  ATTY. RINALDI: I have it on the  list.    23  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. BARTOLETTI: That's all I have,  if anybody has any questions for me.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Anybody have  anything for Marylynn?  MR. HOOVER: That one change order  for the elevator, is that going to the  county?  MS. BARTOLETTI: County. There's  two. They both, again, are using CDBG funds. They go to the county, but I want you to be aware of it because it is borough.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Anyone else  have anything for Marylynn? Thanks, Mare.  I'17 go down the table. Mayor, do  you have anything?  MAYOR LEGG: Mr. Chairman, thank  you. The only thing I have is I hope everybody got a chance to look at the incident analysis that came from comm center. It shows you the incidents and the number of them. It goes to show you what our police do during the course of a month. It was very informative. That's all I have.  Thank you.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: That was a    24  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  great report. I was going to say something about that as well. And not only that, you guys, Chief, there's a lot you guys are doing. Good job by all of you. Councilman  Febbo?  MR. FEBBO: I'm good. MR. NOTARI: I'm good. MR. LETTIERI: I'm good. MR. HOOVER: I'm good. MS. AVVISATO: I'm good.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Before we go  into new business we'11 go to public comment. Chief Dubernas said that Daniel and Chris are going to speak together? Daniel, we'11 let you go first.  MS. WENZLER: Daniel Wenzler. So  I'm here - I actually called last week regarding Stocki's property, and I understand that this has obviously been an issue that's been ongoing and, you know, constantly hear our hands our tied, that's all we can do. You know, we're at the point we called a realtor just because it's almost unbearable to live there anymore. I mean, it's an egregious : at this point to say    25  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  that there's nothing we can do or a decision's supposed to be made or : I've been hearing that for three years now, a decision is supposed to be made.  It's expanded more. There's tires  over the bank now going over to Saint John's Creek, there's tarps, there's : you know, now there's trailers stacked up sO we can't see him renting or scraping at the end of the property, although we can because you can see the buckets dumping, and you smell it, you know, tonight before I came here.  It's horrible.  It's to the point where it's -- to  hear there's nothing we can do, that's B.S. That is absolute B.S. at this point and a slap in the face to anybody that's a  taxpayer. I don't care if you live there or not, you should be affected by it.  You know, he's not supposed to make  a mountain out of a mole hill. It's a mountain. It's beyond at this point. He has expanded back to the property next door,  and 8:45 at night I have a  two-and-a-half-year-old screaming, crying    26  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  because he's working back there. I call the cops, I call the non-emergency number, they go. You hear the fire extinguishers going off because he's at the end of the property. He's closer to us than he is the end of the road. So by the time they get to him don't worry, the fire's out. He's suppose to have fires that, you know, if he's doing burns it will be controlled burns where people are supposed to come. It's ridiculous at this  point.  And I don't want to hear that, you  know, a decision's being made. It's a slap in the face. I mean, for us to have to pick up and move : when it rains the smell is horrible. You know, they say call 911 one day, we think there's a leak. It's not a leak, it's the smell behind us. And everybody's looking at each other going that's the smell? On, my gosh. We thought there was a leak. No, they're isn't.  It's at the point where, you know,  why should we have to deal with it? To hear a decision's being made - I understand Covid, but I'm sorry, he continues and he    27  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  still continues, and it's bigger now than it  was a year ago.  So, you know, non-rental, he's not  renting out equipment. He's not. It's a joke at this point. It's a joke, and money talks, people walk. That's what's  happening, and it's B.S. at this point. So now we have to move but he'1l stay there.  MR. FEBBO: I agree with you. I  agree with you.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: I don't think  there's anyone sitting at this table who  doesn't agree with you.  MS. WENZLER: But at what point,  though : to hear a decision -- I don't understand. If I'm doing something illegal at my house, me and my daughter doing it  illegally, what happens?  MS. AVVISATO: You're going to go to  jail.  MS. WENZLER: And he's been  illegally doing this. This is a junkyard. IV watch it from my bedroom window, I watch it dumping. The smell is horrible. The exhaust, the diesel. I was sitting outside    28  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  with a cup of tea before I came here and the wind hit me the right way. Isaid take the little guy in the house. It smells  horrible. I can't even sit out in the back yard with my son. It's a joke at this point. We have a realtor coming this week.  That's where we're at, because to  hear something's going to be done : there was a stop order put on a truck on the other property two years ago. He was supposed to be done by September 17th or something. Still working. He's not cleaning that property. It's gotten bigger.  So - at what point do the things that  were put into place : he's not supposed to be working on Sundays, not supposed to be working after or not supposed to be working before a certain time. Like, 6:00 in the morning, for example. Before it's even sunlight out he's out here working.  At what point are we a nuisance?  Should we have to call every single time? It's ridiculous. At what point is enforcement going to be made? There are things that were put into place, and they're    29  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  not being followed because nobody's  enforcing it.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Well, we are  enforcing it, and I'm going to defer to  Bill :  MS. WENZLER: 8:45 the other night  he's out there beep, beep, beep and you hear  the junk going in and my  wo-and-a-nalf-year-old is crying. Should I have to call every single time, there he is  again, there he is again?  MR. FEBBO: You're right. That's a  violation. I agree with you a hundred percent. Sitting here listening to you gets me aggravated. The chief has a film. We had a drone fly over. If you want to see a mess, two years ago was bad. It's worse now. And I hate when somebody tells me there's nothing you can do about it. I - hate that. There's nothing more we can do bout it. We're doing everything we can. I can't  stand it anymore.  MS. WENZLER: My fourteen year old  came in the other day, mom, I was on Snapchat. You can go in and you can zoom    30  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  in. Look at what it looks like out there. That's embarrassing we have to live by that.  MR. FEBBO: It helps by looking at  the drone pictures over Chris' house. If he turns his pool around the other way he's three lengths away from his house.  MS. WENZLER: Wasn't it in place  that he's not to have anything that doesn't start up and drive of the property? So the tractor-trailers that are now stacked : one is kind of coming over the bank, actually. Iwish it would just fall. I really do, because then maybe we can call it something else at this point. The back end of the trailer is hanging over. They're stacked two high sO we can't see him dumping, but  you can still see him.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Out of  curiosity, if it was to fall where would it  land?  MS. WENZLER: Right into Saint  John's Creek. It's the back end is kind of sagging, and then there's two huge tires just thrown over the bank. Maybe they're renting them out. Tarps are there. It's    31  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  just becoming - it's disgusting, it's  embarrassing.  MR. FEBBO: Afterwards take a look  at it. Get a bird's-eye view of what goes  on over there.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: I've seen it.  I'm not disagreeing with you at all. A17 I'm saying is we're in court with him. I don't know what else we can do to make the  judge move it any faster.  MR. GOETZ: I'11 help you with that  in five minutes.  MR. FEBBO: Here's the way I feel  about it. Somebody shoots somebody, they kill them. Murder. So he goes to jail and they put him out on bail. A11 right? Now he's out there shooting other people but they're saying wait, we already got him on charges. We already charged him for murder, sO we're not going to charge him anymore.  That's the same thing here. This  guy has been cited but he's still expanding,  getting worse.  MR. HOOVER: I've said from day one  since I'm sitting here, because I live on    32  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Bubernak Boulevard, right in line with Chris, on the other street. We should be up there ticketing this guy every single day. And I've been preaching that every single day and I kept getting told I don't want to hear it. It's before the judge. I'm tired of it. We should be up there ticketing him every day, giving him : but we can't keep sending the cops -- I don't know why we can't keep sending the cops up there every day to ticket this guy. It's ridiculous.  MS. WENZLER: He's not supposed to  work past a certain time, and it's five minutes after, then it's 30 minutes after,  then 8:45 at night :-  MS. AVVISATO: It's just going to  keep going.  MS. WENZLER: He's doing that  because he can.  MR. HOOVER: Nobody's stopping him. MR. FEBBO: Now he moved over to the  Gilchrist property.  MS. WENZLER: He put more trailers  sO we can't see him now dumping more stuff.  MR. GOETZ: My solution might    33  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  include the chief, though, and that's the  problem.  MR. NOTARI: I'd like to answer your  question about do you need to call every time. You do. You need to call our office every time sO we have it on file. You need to call the judge every time sO you have it on file. I realize that doesn't help you mmediately, but I think when we present a case, when our solicitor presents a case in court or we have to go to the magistrate and we have documentation that 85 times you called in two weeks or whatever it is that  helps us.  But does it help us enforce it? I  don't know who's supposed to enforce it. It's the judge's order. The judge gave orders two years ago. Who's supposed to  enforce those orders?  MR. GOETZ: Three years.  MS. WENZLER: It's actually going to  be going on four in September. September 17th it was supposed to be shut down.  MR. GOETZ: July 21, 2018, here's  the order, is when it started. He had six    34  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  months from that date to clear it up.  MR. NOTARI: The court should be  enforcing those orders.  MR. GOETZ: I would agree with that  to a point.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: To echo off of  Councilman Notari, he is correct. That right now is one of the best things you can do. Like I said, we're all in agreement with you. Here's the reason why, and Rick explained it very well. It's going to be documented on how many times a call came in, it's going to be documented what the call was about. We will have to send the police up there, it's going to be documented with them. We'17 have to send the code enforcement/zoning officer up there.  MS. WENZLER: The thing is, you can  document all you want, but the reason why people don't want to call is because nothing's done. That's what it comes down  to.  MR. GOETZ: The police have been  called dozens of times by me over the last  two years.    35  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: A11 the  information goes to the judge. Correct,  Bill?  ATTY. RINALDI: No, but I can tell  you :  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: It's not going  to the judge?  ATTY. RINALDI: No. We're waiting  on the judge :  MR. GOETZ: We're sitting back and  waiting.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Anything  documented would : any new documentation  would go to the judge?  ATTY. RINALDI: No.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: It should. ATTY. RINALDI: Found out two weeks  ago, because I was down at a planning meeting, he was starting to move dirt on that lot next door. So since then DEP has been contacted. They're going to send somebody up. Lackawanna County Conservation District has been contacted because he's not supposed to do any of that without getting permits from us and from them. Two letters    36  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  were sent to the owner of the property, Mr. Gilchrist, who's letting him use it, saying you're in violation of our subdivision ordinance and you're in violation of our zoning ordinance.  Now, they weren't official from the  zoning ordinance. It was, like, be aware, your property is zoned this and that it can't be used for this or you'17 be subject to a notice of violation under the zoning. Be aware that you don't have any permits to do any land moving, moving any earth or digging or grubbing or grading up there under our subdivision ordinance. So those two letters went out. I haven't gotten a response yet, but council is aware of it, and also PennDOT is involved, too.  So every lever of government we're  pulling but for the case that's pending. I can't force any other levers at this time. DEP has a judgment on all of his property for $60,000. Everything he owns is liened by DEP. So we're trying to see if we can get DEP to enforce that. That's all. That's the latest news I have.    37  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: Anything else? MS. WENZLER: No. Im mean, at this  point you can only go and tattle to mom and dad so many times. Nothing gets done. It's really at the point you can fine him all you want. He's just going to keep doing it.  MR. NOTARI: The current fine is  over a half-million dollars.  MS. WENZLER: And has it stopped  him?  MR. NOTARI: Nope.  MS. WENZLER: Even the letters that  were just sent two weeks ago, I called again  the other day :  ATTY. RINALDI: Well, the violation  would be against the property owner. Mr. Stocki doesn't own the property. The violations went to the property.  MS. WENZLER: But he's renting out  equipment.  MR. FEBBO: Ninety percent doesn't  run.  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: If she's  finished.  MS. WENZLER: Yes.    38  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. GOETZ: First thing I do is  apologize to the fellow residents because I may be a little bit long because we're going to ask some questions, then we're going to do a little review just like kindergarten.  The first question I have is if I  was coming to town and I wanted to open any business, from a pizza shop to a hair stylist or whatever, do I need a permit to open and operate that business in a location on a property in this borough? Can anyone  answer that for me?  MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MR. GOETZ: Yes, I do? Does the  business of Trion Equipment, Scrap  Enterprises, do any of those businesses have a - perit to operate a business in this borough of 01d Forge? Can anyone answer  that?  MR. FEBBO: I can't. I don't know. MR. GOETZ: I'11 help you out. The  owner of the business, on December 13 of 2019, under oath, before a judge, under cross examination from solicitor Rinaldi, admitted that he does not have a permit to    39  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  operate a business in the borough of 01d Forge. I believe today is April 20 of 2021. Correct? So can anybody tell me has the owner of any of those businesses been cited for not having a permit to operate a business in the borough of 01d Forge?  ATTY. RINALDI: In the contempt he  is.  MR. GOETZ: I don't want to hear  about contempt petitions. I want to know if he's ever been cited since December 13 of 2019 for operating a business in the borough  of 01d Forge without a permit?  ATTY. RINALDI: Other than the  original complaint, no.  MR. GOETZ: Why not?  ATTY. RINALDI: He was already  cited.  MR. GOETZ: No, no, no, no, no. Why  not? On the day in court, to a judge and to you, he admitted he did not have a permit to operate a business. Why was he not cited by a zoning code officer in this town?  ATTY. RINALDI: Because he was cited  for violating the zoning ordinance. That's    40  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  what  MR. GOETZ: I'm going to refer to  something.  ATTY. RINALDI: Failure to comply  with the zoning ordinance.  MR. GOETZ: Right, but he's still  operating a business today without a permit  to do so.  ATTY. RINALDI: I know that. Did  you read the contempt petition, what it  says?  MR. GOETZ: I have it right here. I  have the order.  ATTY. RINALDI: No, did you read the  contempt petition?  MR. GOETZ: I'm not interested in  that. That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. You keep talking about a dog while I'm talking about a cat. You've been doing it for three years. I'm done with  that.  "On the 31st day of July, 2018,  after hearing testimony on plaintiff's complaint and petition for injunctive relief, and by agreement of the parties it    41  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  is hereby ordered as follows." Ordered as  follows, in capital letters.  "Defendant" - Walter Stocki, for  those that don't know : "shall immediately cease any and all activity on the property which is the subject matter of this appeal in violation of the 01d Forge Borough zoning ordinance, including the operation of a junkyard business" : which means the judge deemed it a junkyard -- "and activities related or ancillary thereto with the exception of activities to carry out  compliance with this order. Nothing in this order shall preclude defendant from using the property in compliance with the 01d Forge Borough zoning ordinance."  So if he's okay to use the property  for anything in compliance with the 01d Forge Borough zoning ordinance he would have to have a permit to operate a legitimate  business. Am I right?  MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MR. GOETZ: Again, I'11 go back to  my first question. Has he ever been cited for not having a permit for a legitimate    42  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  business? A legitimate business. The junkyard's not even legitimate. So that's a  moot point.  MR. NOTARI: No. That's the answer  you want? I'17 give it to you. No.  MR. GOETZ: Why? Where are we with  this?  MR. NOTARI: Great question. I  don't have an answer to that question.  MR. GOETZ: So as he continues to  as it says here, "he shall immediately cease any and all activity, and he should remove  any non-operating equipment."  So for three years, almost, come  July he's been breaking this order every day of the week by hauling in equipment that doesn't run. That's non-operational. How many times has he been cited for that violation? Whether he's in court for that or not, how many times has he been cited for that since then? Does anybody know? I know  the zoning officer's not here.  MR. NOTARI: I don't know for sure,  but I would guess zero.  MR. GOETZ: You're a hundred percent    43  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  accurate. So I go back to my original question. If I came to town and I wanted to open up a hair salon and I did it without a permit, how long would I be allowed to operate that business without a permit before I would be given a shut down, cease  and desist or something?  MR. FEBBO: Probably 30 days. ATTY. RINALDI: What kind of permit  are you talking about? An occupancy permit  for a building?  MR. GOETZ: Yes.  ATTY. RINALDI: He doesn't have a  building.  MR. GOETZ: The first question I  asked is do you have to have a permit to run  a business in this town.  ATTY. RINALDI: It depends on what  your business is. He came to planning, asked planning if he could sell and lease equipment. Planning approved it. He hasn't done work to screen and everything, sO that  part of the permit was an issue.  MR. GOETZ: The question, Bill, is  does he have a permit?    44  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ATTY. RINALDI: We don't have  permits for businesses, we have permits for structures and compliance with zoning ordinances. You go see the zoning officer, I want to open this kind of business, am I in conformance. He can say yes and give you a letter of conformance. That's the only permit you get from our zoning officer other  than occupancy.  MR. GOETZ: Does he have that? ATTY. RINALDI: No, because he  started to operate it in violation of that  ordinance and we cited him.  MR. GOETZ: Again, he started in  violation and he's been going ever since.  ATTY. RINALDI: He came to  planning :  MR. GOETZ: Basically what you're  saying to me is when you come to 01d Forge  you can do anything you want.  ATTY. RINALDI: He came first in  front of planning and zoning.  MR. GOETZ: No, he didn't. ATTY. RINALDI: I have the  transcript from zoning.    45  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. GOETZ: I'm on the zoning board.  was there. He was in business before he  came to zoning.  ATTY. RINALDI: Didn't you guys tell  me he could sell equipment and rent :  MR. GOETZ: Let me tell you about  that. That's a mistake. We don't have the authority to do that. We are a quasi court. That was a complete circus. You weren't even here and you should have been.  ATTY. RINALDI: No, you have a  zoning solicitor. I can't be a solicitor  for the zoning hearing board.  MR. GOETZ: No, no, the second time  around it was done correctly when he was cited. You came there as the prosecutor for the borough. The first time you never came and that case was botched from the start.  That thing  ATTY. RINALDI: I don't get involved  with the zoning hearing board unless the borough or the zoning solicitor asks me to  come.  MR. GOETZ: That's right, and that's  my point. No, you have to come on behalf of    46  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  the borough. When the borough files a suit -- files a citation against somebody and it has to be prosecuted" and it has to be shown, you did that the second time.  ATTY. RINALDI: I go to magistrate  hearings, but when a zoning officer notifies somebody's in violation they can only appeal to you guys and be presented. That's what  that process was all about.  MR. GOETZ: But you had to present  the borough's side, and the first time that  didn't happen.  ATTY. RINALDI: The zoning officer  presented it. He said he's in this zone, he's not allowed to do it. The zoning hearing board makes a determination of what the ordinance says. That was done.  MR. GOETZ: Right, sales and  service, which, again :  ATTY. RINALDI: That was your  decision.  MR. GOETZ: He doesn't have anything  giving him the okay to do sales and  services.  ATTY. RINALDI: We found out he was    47  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  operating a junkyard and Steve Bieryla took action and cited him. He did appeal it, the fine kicked in, he appealed the fine portion of it to the court, sO that's why we had to file a complaint. And I wrote that order. - know what it says. I know what he can't do. He violated and we filed a contempt as soon as the time ran on the order.  MR. GOETZ: Right, three years ago. ATTY. RINALDI: No, we filed it when  the order ran out. He had six months and then an additional three. We filed it right after that. Now, did it take three years of hearings? Well, that was the judge's schedule. Don't blame me for that. I file it and I go by the court's schedule.  MR. GOETZ: Well, there was no  urgency on anybody's part to get it done. I  can tell you that.  ATTY. RINALDI: For the first one I  got an injunction hearing within a week and we got that order two weeks later.  MR. GOETZ: Right, three years ago. MR. NOTARI: Chris, I disagree with  that. I - think there's members of this    48  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  board, if not our entire board, that were urgent with this matter, but we don't know what authority we have over a Lackawanna  County judge.  MR. GOETZ: I'm not asking anybody  to have authority.  MR. NOTARI: No, you are. In a way  you are asking us that because you : excuse me. I have the floor right now. You're telling us up here that we're not doing anything. I - don't know what you want us to do. Under the powers we have we've done all  we can do.  ATTY. RINALDI: I can at least send  an e-mail, and CC defense counsel, saying your Honor, the neighbors are upset. When  can we expect a decision.  MR. GOETZ: I called the judge  myself.  MR. NOTARI: I'm glad you did.  We've been asking the neighbors to do that for over a year, to call the judge.  MR. FEBBO: Did you speak to the  judge?  MR. GOETZ: No. Let's go back to    49  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Rick's question. First of all, I'm not asking the borough to ask the judge other than to maybe write a letter, as I did before. The borough doesn't have control over Judge Munley, and I'm aware of that.  But what I'm telling you is that  this guy is making a mockery of the town, of the council, of the whole zoning situation. You can't tell me that there's nothing that this borough can do. You can cite him, you can make his life miserable. But no one goes up there to pull trucks over, nobody goes up there to see if he's unloading stuff that doesn't run because you can cite him for that. You can make his life miserable. He's up there spreading his wings right now  with what's happening.  MR. NOTARI: I don't disagree with  you, but we can't station a cop there 24/7.  MR. GOETZ: It's not the cop's job,  it's the zoning officer.  MR. NOTARI: We can't put the zoning  officer there 24/7.  MR. GOETZ: But you can put him  there a couple hours a week, and that's not    50  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  happening. Stop me when I'm Tying.  MR. NOTARI: You're not lying, but  we're going to put a zoning officer there at what hour, what is he going to do during those hours that the zoning officer is there? He's not going to do anything.  MR. GOETZ: He doesn't need to be  there, Rick, he needs to drive by.  ATTY. RINALDI: State police have  gone there, they've cited him. Go down and ask the magistrate how many tickets are  down :  MR. GOETZ: Everybody and their  brother cited the guy. I U understand all that. At some point the taxpaying, law abiding citizen has to have somebody or something on their side. This is incredible. I mean, it's a mockery.  MR. NOTARI: Do you really think I'm  not on your side?  MR. GOETZ: I'm not saying you're  not on my side.  MR. NOTARI: I just don't know what  to do at this point, to be honest with you.  I don't know what to do.    51  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. GOETZ: Don't anybody take this  personally. You're the elected official.  You need to figure it out.  MR. NOTARI: We're trying to. MR. GOETZ: We can't come and save  us.  MR. NOTARI: You can ask solicitor  Rinaldi how many conversations we've had about this. How many arguments we've had  about this.  MR. GOETZ: This is the number one  problem in this town. It's not because I live there. The whole place is a disaster. So we're going to wait until it's a federal disaster zone and we'11 all have to move out. He's right now spreading his wings.  Now, I'm not sure I completely  understand what Bill said before about what's going on with Gilchrist, but he should already be cited for what's going on over there. Not that you're in violation. He's been down that road before. The Gilchrist thing already worked itself out. Why is he not cited today? Today?  MS. WENZLER: You can see from the    52  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  road the path he's cleared. You can see the grade that -- I see him doing it when I  drive by.  ATTY. RINALDI: At the time I sent  out the letters there was no equipment there. I drove by tonight I see the  equipment.  MR. GOETZ: The equipment up front,  if it runs and operates it's allowed there.  ATTY. RINALDI: The letter went out,  and I'm waiting to see what the conservation district does because that is their :  MR. GOETZ: Well, that's a big  violation.  ATTY. RINALDI: So they got a letter  and I sent them a picture, the whole nine yards. So they know what's going on. I also was on the phone with DEP again. They're going to send : their supervisor's going to send somebody up there. Problem is he got in a fight with the last two guys,  threw them off the property.  MR. GOETZ: Accused them of being  drunk. I was there.  ATTY. RINALDI: And they have a    53  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  judgment, a lien on his property.  MR. GOETZ: It all leads to what?  The guy keeps violating.  ATTY. RINALDI: I'm trying to push  anybody to do more than :  MR. GOETZ: What I'm going to say to  you is the equipment up front, unfortunately, if it runs, if it's operational, it's allowed there. Up on Keyser Avenue, on the Gilchrist piece.  ATTY. RINALDI: He's got 200, 300  feet.  MR. GOETZ: Three undred-fifty,  from Oak Street to :  ATTY. RINALDI: He hasn't come to  planning for anything on that.  MR. GOETZ: So he's in violation of  that. But from Oak Street to the Taylor line, from edge of the road, C-3, it's 350 feet deep for the whole distance. He can park operational equipment there and sell  it.  ATTY. RINALDI: Now, it's the  landowner. That's why we notify the  landowner.    54  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. GOETZ: I'm with you a hundred  percent. I - know that. I C did not see :  ATTY. RINALDI: As of the 16th the  landowner was still not Mr. Stocki.  MR. GOETZ: Right. I didn't see the  video or the pictures, and I'm not going to sit here and say that I know for sure that there's equipment in the back across the property line. Maybe someone can answer  that.  MR. FEBBO: Yeah, absolutely. MR. GOETZ: That is zoned C-3 office  commercial. Okay? There's nothing here. It says business, services, corporate headquarters, computer center. There's nothing even remotely close to that. So there's the first violation. Whether the equipment runs or it doesn't he's in violation. So if there's one piece of equipment across that line in the back it's a citation to the property owner, which I agree with Bill. I know that. It's not to the tenant or whoever's taken over the land.  But that's my point.  MR. FEBBO: Twice in the last two    55  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  weeks I got a Fire Stick put in my mailbox. One was last Saturday, one was today.  MR. GOETZ: One other thing before I  close here, is that I wasn't able to print this out, but I took a picture of my computer screen if somebody wants to see it. Monday, March 29th I sent an e-mail to the permit engineer in the PennDOT office. "Hi, Ali. Just a heads up. This photo is on Keyser Avenue, 01d Forge. There was dirt coming out of the driveway at the Diamond  Club. Dirt all over the road.  Also, would it possible to tell me  if there's a highway occupancy permit for  the driveway?"  Her response came on the same day, I  believe, or the next day : same day. "Not permitted. I have the specialist looking up the owner sO we can send a letter with citation for removal of access."  IK know, Rick, you asked once before  about PennDOT and sO on and so forth, so you guys can't control PennDOT, and you're right about that. But this is how the situation would work. If a business person comes into    56  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  town and applies for a permit or a letter of whatever you get when you want to start a junkyard, the zoning officer says : you know, if I was coming to open up a pizza place and he says did you get your stuff from the state for your food, for your fire suppression system, sO forth, and your HOP and you don't have all those you don't get a  permit.  So in this case here we are. No  HOP, but still okay to operate a business. So do you see where I'm going here full  circle with all this?  MR. RUSSELL RINALDI: There's no HOP  registered to him for that property or :  MR. GOETZ: For that driveway at  all, according to the PennDOT manager.  ATTY. RINALDI: I have all the  permits. There's two permits pulled on this, one for when Gilchrist did the Diamond Club, which is the entrance that's there now, which is still open. He didn't complete it : Gilchrist, now.  The second one is when he subdivided  the rear property to sell the front portion    57  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  of the property and leave the part in the rear. He put in a second HOP to run the driveway down along the right side of the property where the telephone : it's not  even there. That's open.  Already in discussions with PennDOT  over both those issues before I even see what he's doing on the new lot.  MR. GOETZ: What I'm reading to you  is the permit manager in charge of permits said there's no permit for the Diamond Club  driveway.  ATTY. RINALDI: I have it. You're  right, it's not issued because they've both been extended to do the work. But that is not the borough's issue, believe it or not.  It's a PennDOT issue.  MR. GOETZ: You're right, but it's a  borough issue, as I just explained to Rick. When I come to open a business the borough is supposed to say do you have X, Y and Z of all your other permits because it's supposed to be an intergovernmental cooperation agreement that you meet : you have a pizza place, fire suppression system, you have all    58  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  your safety stuff, do you have handicap parking, do you have handicap restrooms, do you have this, do you have a permit for whatever else, for other stuff you need from  other agencies.  Then the last thing you get is a  permit to occupy the building because you met everything else. He's operating a business, other. permits are not in place.  ATTY. RINALDI: I can also tell you  both of those permit applications were pulled by the owner before Stocki was there. So it's really on the owner that has an  issue.  MR. GOETZ: I'm with you, Bill, but  at the end of the day :  ATTY. RINALDI: I agree with you,  but what the borough does here is when somebody comes in to subdivide property or to S sell we are only allowed to make sure they file the HOP application with PennDOT. We cannot hold up a subdivision waiting for them to get that approval. There's court cases on it. Boroughs used to try to do it all the time. It's illegal. It all got    59  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  appealed up.  So our engineer always makes sure  that there's an HOP application filed when any subdivision that comes into the borough before we approve any subdivision plan, and then it's up to PennDOT to close out that permit in accordance with that application.  MR. GOETZ: And if they don't they  just get to operate without one.  ATTY. RINALDI: Well, that's : we  don't police PennDOT.  MR. GOETZ: Again, but you police  them getting the permits that they should  be.  ATTY. RINALDI: Well, our job was  done when we approved the subdivision.  MR. NOTARI: Well, PennDOT should  also probably notify the borough that that application has not been approved for a  permit.  MR. GOETZ: I would be willing to  bet that it hasn't.  ATTY. RINALDI: Well, I know it's  not done.  MR. NOTARI: When was that property    60  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  subdivided? How long ago?  MR. GOETZ: It's a while ago. It  was subdivided for the sale of the Diamond  Club property.  MR. NOTARI: Probably '15 at least. MR. FEBBO: Do you think that Stocki  cares whether or not there's an HOP?  ATTY. RINALDI: '06, '09.  MR. GOETZ: Obviously I know that my  friends, here, are here for the same kind of reason that I am because we have, like, privileged statute at the meeting, we're here sO much. But I'17 just close with this, I know that the zoning officer job is going to be vacated or is currently vacated and there's going to be a process to fill it. I'17 just say this in two phases. One as a citizen and one as somebody that sits on the zoning board. What do you think the most important position in the borough is?  MR. NOTARI: Right now, zoning  officer.  MR. GOETZ: With all due respect to  the chief and Marylynn, who do fantastic jobs, in any town the zoning officer is the    61  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  front line of defense of keeping your borough very well respected and wanting  people to come and live.  MR. NOTARI: That's all well and  good, Chris, but people need to follow the enforcement as well, and that hasn't happened in this case. So we could have whoever, king of England, be the code  enforcement officer :  MR. GOETZ: Even before you were on  council, Rick, I think that this zoning was lax from the start. This thing could have been headed off early. That's water under  the bridge now.  What I'm trying to say is please,  when you select the next zoning officer keep in mind that they need to be somebody who is intelligent, who is able to read all these laws and ordinances and understand them and grasp them, and at the end of the day, I'17 be honest with you, they don't need to know a lick about construction. They need to know about the law, how to read the law and how to apply the law because they are the front line of defense to keep this town    62  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  shining bright. I'11 end with that. Thank  you.  MR. HOOVER: I have a question.  Obviously, the last two weeks, two and half weeks that other Gilchrist property has been  like it is. Right?  ATTY. RINALDI: I found out about it  when I was down here.  MR. HOOVER: Can we go cite him on  that land?  MR. FEBBO: Last Saturday he moved  the trucks from the front of the :  MR. GOETZ: You can't cite him for  the front pieces.  MR. FEBBO: No, he moved the trucks  out of there.  MR. GOETZ: Even on the Gilchrist  property up near Keyser you can't cite him  unless they don't run.  ATTY. RINALDI: I'm talking about  the position that he's in violation because he didn't even come down and say what their plan was. I don't care what he's doing. We don't know until he comes down. Nobody's heard from anybody who owns this property,    63  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  what your plans are, why you're doing this, why you're doing that. I - notified the other  agencies.  MR. GOETZ: I'm agreeing with Bill  on that point. Bill is saying that even though I'm saying he's allowed to park them up there even if they run, he's saying that he's in violation because he never came before the planning commission for that piece of property as to what he was going to do, which goes back to what I was saying initially from 2013 in the middle of the night when he moved from the Popple property down there to here. He just showed up and  then nothing happened.  I'17 go back to what we talked about  earlier. If there's even one piece of equipment - Jimmy, you asked the  question : on the C-3 property, which would be 350 feet back, sO 351 feet back and all the way to Saint John's Creek, if there's even one piece of equipment over there, whether it runs or not, he's in violation.  MR. HOOVER: We know there is. MR. GOETZ: I'm not going to see the    64  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  video until later.  MR. FEBBO: He has probably 12, 15  pieces there. I don't know if it was dump trucks there or not. There was one dozer that's partially torn apart. The remainder  look like they're operable.  MR. GOETZ: I know you all would  agree with me. You have to get ahead of this one because there's a lot of acres there, folks. There's a lot of acres there.  That's all I'm saying.  MR. HOOVER: I think we should go up  and cite him if we have a zoning guy.  MR. GOETZ: I hope that, however  long it takes, it's not going to be four or five weeks of lawlessness on the zoning side of things here because it can get out of  control here fast.  MR. FEBBO: Well, Bill is on top of  that with the permits and sO on and conservation and waterways. Tomorrow you  expect that?  ATTY. RINALDI: I'm hoping he calls  and says I'm coming down here to see what's  going on. I said call me.