OLD FORGE BOROUGH COUNCIL MEETING  375 Milwaukee Avenue Old Forge, Pennsylvania Tuesday, June 21, 2022 7:00 p.m.  8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MEMBERS PRESENT: RUSSELL RINALDI, CHAIRMAN  RICK NOTARI, COUNCIL MEMBER LOU FEBBO, COUNCIL MEMBER JAMES HOOVER, COUNCIL MEMBER MICHELLE AVVISATO, COUNCIL MEMBER ANDREW BUTLER, COUNCIL MEMBER  ALSO PRESENT: MAYOR ROBERT LEGG  MARYLYNN BARTOLETTI BOROUGH MANAGER WILLIAM RINALDI, ESQUIRE - SOLICITOR  Janet E. Smith Court Reporter (570) 650-0753  Cechifero ORibuNa    P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Good evening, everyone. I'd like to call the meeting to order with the. Pledge of Allegiance. (Pledge of Allegiance.) CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Roll call, please. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Avvisato.  MS. AVVISATO: Here. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler. MR. BUTLER: Here.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: Here.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover. MR. HOOVER: Present. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Lettieri  absent. Councilman Notari. CHAIRMAN RINALDI. Here. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler. MR. BUTLER: Present. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Here. Thanks, Marylynn. Once again, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the regular meeting of the Old Forge Borough. Tonight is Tuesday, June    21st, 2022.  We're going to go through some of our housekeeping motions, hear from the department heads and their reports for the meeting. There's a public sign-in sheet that the Chief has. If anyone else didn't sign in already and would like to address it, give you a few minutes at the end of the  meeting.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  And then we will go down the table and hear from our mayor and our council  members.  To begin, we'll go through our first housekeeping motion, and that's motions to approve the prior minutes.  MS. AVVISATO: Make that motion, Mr.  Chairman.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Motion on the floor by Councilwoman Avvisato. MR. BUTLER: Second. CHAIRMAN RINALDI:: Second by Councilman Butler on the question. Public input. Roll call, please.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Avvisato. MS. AVVISATO: Yes.    MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler. MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover. MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari. MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. Second item under housekeeping, a motion to approve treasurer report. Please note this does not include the sewer account.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. HOOVER: Make that motion. MR. FEBBO: Second. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Motion on the floor by Councilman Hoover. Second by Councilman Febbo on the question. Public input. Roll call, please.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Avvisato. MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler. MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: Yes.    MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover. MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari. MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. Third item is a motion to approve treasurer invoices for payment. Please note that this does not include the sewer  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  account.  MR. NOTARI: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion to approve invoices for payment with the exception of any invoices from the Borough engineer, the Borough architect and D and M Construction and company related to the ongoing Borough  building project.  MR. BUTLER: Second that motion. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Motion on the floor by Councilman Notari. Second by Councilman Butler on the question. Public input. Roll call, please.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Avvisato. MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler.    MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover. MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari. MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. The fourth item is a motion to approve the sewer department financial report.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. NOTARI: Make that motion, Mr.  Chairman.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Motion on the  floor by Councilman Notari.  MS. AVVISATO: Second that. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Second by Councilwoman Avvisato on the question. Public input. Roll call, please. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Avvisato.  MS. AVVISATO: Yes. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Butler.  MR. BUTLER: Yes.    MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover. MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari. MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. The 6th item : I'm sorry. 5th item is motion to approve sewer department invoices for  10. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  payment.  MR. NOTARI: Make that motion, Mr.  Chairman.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Motion on the  floor by Councilman Notari. MR. BUTLER: Second. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Second by Councilman Butler on the question. Public input. Roll call, please.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Avvisato.  MS. AVVISATO: Yes. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Butler.  MR. BUTLER: Yes.    MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover. MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari. MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. Before we go to our department heads, we have Joe Rovinsky from Lackawanna County CDBG. Do you want to give us the report before you  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  could -  COURT REPORTER: Sir, I just need  your name.  MR. ROVINSKY: Joe Rovinsky. On behalf of Lackawanna County Department of Planning and Economic Development. I'm just going to give you an overview of the program and the current funding available for projects going in to  2022.  Ialso prepared a statement that is provided. The Lackawanna County Department of Planning and Economic Development is the administering agency for the Community    Development Block Grant Program in the  county.  CDBG funds are federal funds from the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development, which are administered by the PA Department of Community and Economic  Development.  There are 11 entitlement communities which Old Forge Borough is one, and 27 non-entitled communities in Lackawanna County, Pennsylvania.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  To be considered an entitlement community, the community must have a population of 4,000 or more and meet the current minimum standards of physical and economic distress of the Federal Urban Development Action Grant Program. The current 2022 allocation is estimated right now at $145,000.00, and that would likely change before the end of the month as the second revision to the allocation. While the allocation will be out hopefully prior to the end of the month. So it would be provided to the Borough managers. So, the current    10  allocation for 2022 is $145,000.00. That's new money that will be coming in to the Borough, which may be more or less, but not within that range, which would help we were told by DCB will be coming by the end of this month. So, they are behind for the current allocation for this year.  Objectives. There are numerous objectives the program addresses. It includes to assist communities and preparing community development plans, designed to address the significant needs of low and low to moderate income individuals, to assist communities in administering community development activities designed to address a number of community development needs identified by the community development plan, to encourage and assist communities to focus upon and address housing and the community facility problems and to pursue economic development and commercial revitalization activities through public, private investment initiatives that will result in the development of the expansion of job opportunities within the  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25    11  Commonwealth.  Examples of eligible activities include water and sewer improvements, storm water improvements, street improvements, parks and recreation facilities and senior  cênter facilities.  Examples of ineligible activities include buildings or portions used for government, general government expenses, operating and maintenance expenses, political activities, purchase and construction of equipment, purchase of the fire protection equipment, purchase of furnishings or personal property and income  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  payments.  For the project to be eligible, it has to meet one of three: national  objectives.  One of these objectives is to benefit both the moderate income persons. Another objective is the prevention or elimination of slums or blight or to address the immediate threat to the health and safety of the community.  The most recent project we completed    12  with the CDBG was the elevator project in the borough building and we are coordinating with the Borough manager to get project completeness for the 2022 application. So, once we have the final funding available, that information will be provided to the Borough Council and Borough Manager. And we anticipate that happening and be finalized very soon, because they are  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  behind.  So, having said that, that's all I have. I'11 take any questions I can answer  from the people.  MR. HOOVER: Dunn Avenue? MS. BARTOLETTI: We had talked about it but we don't think it was going to be a good plan because, by the time they perform the surveys and all that, it would definitely put us well in to next year. MR. ROVINSKY: We do have people going out for surveys in July and August. That's our survey time, survey period time, because the construction is scheduled by August, September, it's hard to get road jobs done in that period.    13  Also difficult because we've had a lot of problems with road projects, recently getting supplies. A lot of the contractors are backed up significantly, due to the supply chain issue. So, we have to take that into account too in planning projects. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Any questions for  Joe?  MR. ROVINSKY: We will get the final allocations to you as soon as we have them from the state. We have the estimates. That was the second time that we changed  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  them.  So, hopefully, this is the last revision that we. get from the state CDB. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Anything else,  Joe?  MR. ROVINSKY: That's all. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Thank you very much. Appreciate you coming down. Thanks, Joe. Have a good evening.  Moving to the department heads. Joe Lenceski, DPW manager. We have his report. Joe, anything else to add? Does anybody have anything for DPW manager?    14  MR. NOTARI: Couple questions. Joe, saw you had contacted Bureau of Mines for two addresses, 113. Taroli, 116 Hickory Street, we have a problem with signs? MR. LENCESKI: Not a problem. They come up from time to time. But when they're on the property, I just notify the Bureau of Mines for them, just to help them out. Usually give that homeowner the  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  contact information.  COURT REPORTER: The acoustics are terrible in here. Can maybe come up here and speak? Thank you.  MR. NOTARI: One other thing. I drove by Pero Park the other day. And there was trees cut down, missing. Is that our  doing?  MR. LENCESKI: No, that isn't our  doing.  MR. NOTARI: Oh boy. Whose doing was  it? Do we not know?  MR. LENCESKI: Vandalism, just not growing, not taking to the ground. Some of the trees were actually yanked out.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Big pine trees    15  along the driveway were yanked out?  MR. LENCESKI: Pero Park. I thought Marian Street Park. They were standing dead. MR. NOTARI: So we cut them down? MR. LENCESKI: Yes. One took out a power line going to the triboro shed. I had arborists come out and look at them. He said they're standing dead. They need to come down or they're all going to fall eventually. So, for the safety of the community, come down.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. NOTARI: Now explain where we had  vandalism.  MR. LENCESKI: I thought you were talking about Marion Street Park. Some of them were yanked out. Some of them were accidentally hit by lawnmowers when they  were small.  MR. NOTARI: Okay. I was worried about Pero Park. That's all I have. Thank  you.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Anyone else have any questions for Joe? Thanks, Joe.  Code enforcement, zoning officer, Chris Hart. Anything to add to the report?    16  MR. HART: Just that we need two alternates for the Planning Commission. I have six members right now. There's one that we spoke about in the past that's willing to come aboard but then we need  alternates.  Some people have conflicting schedules with the time, sO, only thing that  we need to discuss.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Are you short one  member?  MR. HART: Only have six, yes. I need one with and then two alternates. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Need one member  and two alternates.  MR. HART: Correct. MR. NOTARI: Mentioned Dave Fife,  right?  MR. HART: Yes. He's the one. I'm unsure about Potosky at the moment, so. If we get two alternates on, Billy took the spot of one of them.  MR. NOTARI: Wait. Do we currently  have 7?  MR. HART: No. Six.    17  MR. NOTARI: Six includes Bob? MR. HART: Yes. So, if Dave Fife comes on board, that makes 7.  MR. HOOVER: Did we ask Dave? MR. HART: Yes. He's willing to join. If we have two alternates, then, you know, depending on what happens, you know, one could step in. Then we could have one alternate on the side or just two alternates, which would be good, because a lot of people have kids and, you know, their  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  schedules.  MR. HOOVER: Anybody in mind? MR. HART: I do not at the moment. The two that I did were already used. I will get with the planning commission and ask them, see if they have any recommendations.  MR. NOTARI: Do we need to advertise for that last spot, Mary, or could we name  Dave Fife tonight?  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Where did wè lose  a member?  MR. HART: We were short one. Bob  Potosky.    18  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Bob is still on.  He hasn't resigned, right? MR. HART: Yes.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Only one that  resigned was :  MR. HART: Vince came in. ATTORNEY RINALDI: Bill took Stassi's  spot. We need two alternates.  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. HART: Two alternates, and then we need one for Potosky. Stassi, he's - ATTORNEY RINALDI: Is he gonna  resign?  MR. HART: On the borderline right  now, yeah.  MR. NOTARI: Who is currently on the  planning commission?  MR. HART: Right now, we have Billy, Vince Piccolini, Jr., Bobby Giglio. We have Mark Voyack. We have Sal Luzio, Louie. MR. NOTARI: And Bob Potosky. So we  have seven members.  MR. HART: Right. So we need one  more.  MR. NOTARI: No. We have 7. We have  two alternates.    19  MR. HART: Bob Potosky is on the  borderline.  MR. NOTARI: But he didn't resign. So, he's on the board. He's not off the board, Chris. He's on the board. He's not resigned. We need two alternates. It's simple as that. Period.  MR. HART: My problem is, I haven't had a quorum in three meetings.  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. NOTARI: Then we need two alternates so we can have a quorum. Can't replace somebody that hasn't resigned. Period. I don't want an answer. Could we advertise for two alternates for the planning commission? MS. BARTOLETTI: Yeah. MR. NOTARI: Alternates can sit in on  meetings.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: We're gonna  advertise.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: We could, if you wanted to make a motion tonight if we have one alternate, can have one alternate  tonight.  MR. HOOVER: I don't think we have    20  any.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: We have Dave  Fife.  MR. HOOVER: All right. If he definitely wants it, yeah. Have you talked  to him?  MR. HART: Yes, yes. What I wanted was a nine person planning commission board. MR. HOOVER: I just don't want to put his name out there if I thought he doesn't  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  want the job.  MR. HART: No, he wants it. Like I said, what I wanted was a nine person planning commission board so that we know that everybody is on board.  Sometimes alternates, you know, they don't have a say in every meeting. So, if we have a nine person board, then we're guaranteed a quorum of four almost every  time.  MS. AVVISATO: Don't have anyone in  mind?  MR. HART: No.  MR. NOTARI: You don't have a quorum of 4 in a nine person board. You need five.    21  MR. HART: Five. MR. NOTARI: Right. MR. HART: I have a better chance  there.  MR. NOTARI: Need to rewrite the ordinance, I believe, then; right? Bill. ATTORNEY RINALDI: You have seven members and two alternates. If you don't have a quorum with four, you pick an alternate to make a quorum. So, you have two chances to make a quorum. MR. FEBBO: the meetings?  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  show up for  MR. HART: Billy used to, but there  hasn't been.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: The alternates  would show up.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Chris, you're saying right now, you're having a problem, currently, with the 7 members getting a  quorum.  MR. HART: Correct.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: When is the last time you had a quorum out of the 7 members? MR. HART: Last one we did. The past    22  one, we did not. June we did not. One before that we did. The one before that we did not have a quorum.  MR. HOOVER: Just put Dave Fife on tonight and alternate and put it in the paper we need another alternate. Okay, Rick? MR. NOTARI: I'm good with that. If we're going to name Dave Fife as an alternate tonight, we only need one  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  alternate.  MR. FEBBO: Alternate MR. NOTARI: Two alternates. Bill, if we wanted to expand or remake the planning commission, that would take a new resolution; correct?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: You have to change your ordinance. I think you're allowed 7 and 2 alternates.  MR. NOTARI: For the first time I'm hearing tonight that Chris would like a nine person planning commission.  If we agreed with him and wanted to do that, we would need to rewrite the ordinance, correct?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Right.    23  MR. NOTARI: Okay.  MR. HOOVER: Right now, just leave Dave Fife and put an ad out for one. I don't want to rewrite the ordinance. MR. NOTARI: I don't either. MR. HOOVER: God bless Bob. I hope Bob comes back. But you can't do anything about that. Put Dave Fife on tonight. Put an ad in the paper for one more alternate. MS. AVVISATO: Chris, I like all the  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  permits.  MR. HOOVER: Add that to the agenda? CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yeah. I have it marked down. Chris, anything else to add? MR. HART: Nothing. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Anybody have any questions for the zoning officer? MR. NOTARI: I have a question. Where do we stand with the Preate Winery  property?  I had a call today regarding that paper street that divides the property that seemed to being dumped on by the property owner. Have we made any headway with that? MR. HART: Billy answered that.    24  ATTORNEY RINALDI: I answered her. I sent her a copy of the deed. It's not a paper street. It's actually a 15-foot easement on all those properties back there. And I'm assuming that's where she means being dumped on, because there's nothing else behind her property. MR. NOTARI: Right. ATTORNEY RINALDI: So, it's her property that they're trespassing on. So she would have to take the action if they're dumping on that 15 foot. So I suggest that she get an attorney or somebody to do a title search and get the pins put in for the survey and tell the guy, stop dumping on her  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  easement.  MR. NOTARI: Up to her to go tell the guy to stop dumping on her property?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Yep. It's not  Borough property.  MR. NOTARI: Thank you. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Any other questions for Chris? Thanks, Chris.  David Loptaka, engineer's report, anything to add? Anybody have any questions    25  for Dave?  MR. HOOVER: Yes, I do. Dave, where do we stand with the Hoover Street project? ENGINEER: Hoover Street, I actually have the surveyor getting ready to go out there and survey to see exactly what's going on with the stormwater, just to see where it's going, what it's tying into.  MR. NOTARI: That needs to be done  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ASAP.  MR. NOTARI: That's a hot item. Not like whenever he can get to that. Needs to find the surveyor that could get to it  within a week.  MR. HOOVER: I'11 get it. MR. NOTARI: Okay. There's a lot of damage being done at the cemetery. We're getting the blame for it. Is it our blame?  I don't know.  MR. HOOVER: In the cemetery. MR. NOTARI: In the cemetery. MS. AVVISATO: Water problem, we  discussed it last week.  ENGINEER: Yeah. But the water comes from the cemetery, doesn't it?    26  MR. NOTARI: No. Coming down the  hill.  ENGINEER: Above?  MR. NOTARI: Yeah. So, if we can get on that, figure out what the fix is, what it's going to cost us, and whether we need to go to the cemetery association and ask them for help, if they're part of - if it's part of the problem as well.  8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  But it's something we need to take  action on it.  ENGINEER: I'11 get it done. MS. AVVISATO: Thanks, Dave. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Rick. MR. NOTARI: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Just quick question on that. Is the water coming do you know where the water is coming from? MR. NOTARI: Down Smith. Coming down Smith Street.. Not only does it come down Smith Street, but it comes off : the last time we had the super bad storm, which is probably 2 do 3 years ago, water was actually coming off two of the properties that sit on the hill, coming out of the    27  gentleman's driveway like a river and coming down Hoover Street or down Smith Street. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Along side the  fence.  MR. NOTARI: Along side the fence.  Actually comes  the street. It will  come down the left side of Smith Street as I'm going down and will cross over to that drain that's right in front of the gate. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Across from  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Arcaro's house?  MR. NOTARI: Yeah, yeah. ENGINEER: And it sits right there. MR. NOTARI: Yeah.  ENGINEER: It's not coming out of the cemetery or coming down Smith Street? MR. FEBBO: Smith Street. MR. NOTARI: No, actually coming out of Mancuso's driveway. I've been told by residence that there's actually water coming  out of that drain.  So, if we're feeding water in to it and there's water coming out of it, one, it's not taking it, and, two, it's backed up  from somewhere.    28  So, again, I know we've sent Joe out there a couple times and he keeps telling me and I believe him, that it's clean, that there's no debris in there.  So, I don't know. Is the pipe not big enough? Is it blocked somewhere, wherever it's going to? But it's something that needs to be fixed.  MR. HOOVER: Is the water coming down.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Lincoln?  MR. NOTARI: Quite possibly is. But there's another drain. It's between -- actually, it's in front of the Lucas house. So, you know, I'm sure it comes down the hill. I mean, it's not -  MR. FEBBO: Where is that going?  Where is that drain going?  MR. NOTARI: I don't know where that  drain goes.  MR. FEBBO: Where does that go, Joe,  do you know?  MR. LENCESKI: Combination system. MR. FEBBO: Stormwater. MR. NOTARI: Any water from Lincoln Street and even Lee Street has to be going    29  there because there's really a minimal slope up. Like,if you made the left turn, go to Salemonti's house. All the water is coming down that way. Definitely the low point is in front of Deluca's and in front of  Balasitti.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Joe, are you familiar with it? Dave, are you familiar  8  with it?  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ENGINEER: I am. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: When is the soonest you can get down there?  ENGINEER: Well, I should get down  there Friday.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Any chance you can  meet Dave down there on Friday? MR. HART: Yep. MR. CAREY: Mr. Chairman. COURT REPORTER: Sir, I just need  your name.  MR. CAREY: Mark Carey. One of the issues I was going to raise. I know you're talking about this subject.  Should I wait or can I make some comments? Because I'm very familiar with    30  that. Do you want me to wait until : CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yeah, wait until  public comments.  MR. CAREY: I will be making some comments and reflecting on that.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Good. And if you have any information to give to the engineer  and DPW.  MR. CAREY: I'11 be talking about it. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Good. Any other  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  questions for Dave?  MR. NOTARI: No thank you. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Thanks, Dave. Chief Dubernas, anything else for your report, anything to add? CHIEF civil service.  Nothing about the  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Get the contract  finalized for that.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: Right. Nothing. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Anyone have any  questions for the Chief?  MR. NOTARI: I have a question. And, Chief, I apologize. I didn't see your report. For some reason, didn't come    31  through my e-mail.  But my. question is, we informed that we received a grant for the body cameras for the officers.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: Yes, last Thursday. MR. NOTARI: Have we ordered them  yet?  CHIEF DUBERNAS: We already had the quote. We just have to tell the guy when it's finalized from :  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. BARTOLETTI: I'm working on the paperwork. They said do not order anything until the paperwork was finalized. MR. NOTARI: Okay. Thank you. MS. BARTOLETTI: In the process. MR. NOTARI: All I have. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Anyone else have  any questions of the Chief?  MR. HOOVER: Is he going to be here for the executive session later?  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. Thank you,  Chief.  Bill Stall, assistant fire chief,  anything to report?  MR. STALL: Nothing.    32  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Anybody have any questions for the assistant fire chief?  Thanks, Bill.  Attorney Rinaldi, solicitor's  report.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: You have two resolutions. One is with pave cut, fines and fees. The ones that we talked about last week. that we were going. to add and didn't add because it was included. When somebody gets a pave cut permit, also supposed to get a permit for anything behind the curb, walkways, right-of-way, grass, green, trees.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  If you see somebody on the other side of the curb on the roadway, you go get them and nail them for not having a permit.  Okay?  Landlord license administration fees. You want to go over them, we can go over them, for each one. Also have an ordinance for the vehicles and traffic, increasing the violations for parking tickets from 25 to $50.00 and quality of life ordinance ticket process system. Easier    33  for Chris to go out and give tickets out when he sees current violations under our  code.  Also a draft letter that we discussed with regards to rain water on the roads for developments. If that's okay, just let Chris know. If you want to make a change, you can do that.  And. I spoke to the school district solicitor. They are on-board with the idea to correct that problem on Sherry Lane, which Dave presented the plan to it.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20. 21 22 23 24 25  Just need to tell Dave to go ahead and start getting the dimensions and everything together for it. The work will come later, once we finalize. We need a survey, metes and. bounds.  MR. NOTARI: We're going to take over  the road?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Well, we own it now. We're going to give them the property they want, less 50 feet of it, for the  shared lane.  They're going to give us a portion of the apron that turns in to Sherry Lane    34  that's on their property, which would be  Melmore Street.  We need a little piece of their property to connect Melmore and down to that Sherry Lane Drive. Do you remember that  map?  MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MR. FEBBO: Does it become our road? ATTORNEY RINALDI: It will be a Borough road, yes. 50 foot road from Melmore, a left off Melmore, down Sherry Lane to the house that needs it. Remaining land goes back to : well, we're going to give the remaining land to the school  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  district.  MR. FEBBO: Will that road go all the  way down to the railroad tracks?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: No. We're only  going down to the  ENGINEER: End of that last house. ATTORNEY RINALDI: Yeah. Shrive  house.  ENGINEER: But people going to explain that the road doesn't go down that  far?    35  ATTORNEY RINALDI: That's Vitalla's Lane, which he owns. I think he's the one that did what he did there anyway on Sherry Lane. So it will go down there.  You can make that decision, but at least pick up the Shrive house. I don't think it's going to go past there now, because it doesn't go back there now, it's like gravel to get down to that little gravel driveway. Goes down to the garage on  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  the left.  Got a little garage there. I think ite even encroaches a little bit on the railroad right-of-way.  ENGINEER: The pin is right on the corner of the property, right on the corner  of the garage.  MR. HOOVER: That's going to be a  problem plowing? No?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: That's not our problem. That's his problem. That's all I  have.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Anybody have any questions for the solicitor? Thanks, Bill. Marylynn, Borough manager report.    36  MS. BARTOLETTI: First, does anybody have any questions on any of the financial  reports?  I just wanted to bring up two other things.. The first one is that the summer camp is taking place and it's going to start July 5th through the 29th, Monday through  Friday, 10 to 1.  And just also to bring up about we have to discuss about the Go Joe bike ride. He's going to be coming to Old Forge on July 28th. So we have to come up with a little plan. And that's all I have to report. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Anybody have any questions for the Borough manager? Thanks,  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Marylynn.  Before we go on to new business, going to go to public comments. Mark Carey. MR. CAREY: Yes. Let's follow up on what I was talking about earlier, talking about that issue off of Smith Street. When did that drain go in to the cemetery? When was that drain placed in to the cemetery, how many years? Does somebody  know?    37  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Drain placed in  the cemetery or right outside?  MR. CAREY: The side gate. So everybody is on the same page, if you come up Hoover, turn on to Smith, you have the Deluca, Belensini, you have the side gate. There's a drain outside of that side, outside the gate. If you walk in to the gate and go ahead maybe 25, 30 feet, there's a drain inside the cemetery, a storm  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  drain.  My family's headstones and family are buried there. I'm there all the time. I take care of those sites. I'm very familiar what happens with the water. I have pictures on my phone.  Last year, I was up at my neighbor's yard, looking down from heavy rain storms after a few days. It was a pond.  I have military family members that their stones are under water. I'm walking with boots, trying to put in flowers. It's disrespectful. And I'm getting aggravated with it. Something has to be done.  I've talked to Jimmy Scavo from the    38  association. He said to come here, to bring  it to your attention.  The water is coming out of that storm drain, because when you go after a rainstorm, you could see the grass and the clippings are being pushed up. You can see  them laying out.  That water is coming out of the storm drain in to the cemetery. Now, if you look at the drain outside of the cemetery,  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  there is a curb.  When they did the road, there's a high whatever they call it, that's dry. After it rains, when that drain takes all that water, that road is dry.  The cemetery is still under water. So the water is not coming from the road. It might be coming from part of it. It's coming from that drain in the cemetery.  Now, I don't know where that goes to or if the storm drain outside is feeding in to that and coming out. I have no idea. But something is causing that water to go in to the cemetery and flood it. I'm now paying to have my family members' head    39  stones fixed because they're tipping and slanting and they're going to fall if don't get them repaired.  RINALDI: Not to interrupt  you. Let me ask one question. The storm drain inside the cemetery.  MR. CAREY: Is pumping water out. If you went after a storm, I was there over the last couple weeks because of all the  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  holidays.  You could see, when they fresh cut the grass, you can see the layout of the clippings from the grass, the water from the storm drain, you could see it is pushing  water out.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Is it a new storm  drain?  MR. CAREY: That's what I'm asking. When did they install it? When did they put  that in?  MR. NOTARI: Why would the Borough put a storm drain in the cemetery? VOICE: Cemetery that did it. MR. CAREY: Who is responsible for correcting this? Because the association, I    40  talked to Jimmy and he said to come here because of the fact that there's a drain outside on Smith Street.  MR. NOTARI: I'm sorry, Mark. I must have misunderstood you when we spoke  earlier.  It's not the drain on the outside  that's flooding?  MR. CAREY: No. MR. NOTARI: It's the drain on  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  inside?  MR. CAREY: On the inside that's flooding. But I don't know if that storm drain on the outside is feeding somehow in  to that drain.  The water has to come from somewhere to come out of the storm drain in the  cemetery.  MR. HOOVER: Joe, is that storm drain outside the curb hooked in to that one? MR. CAREY: That's the issue. MR. HOOVER: Is that the water? But it seems like it's not that far away. It  seems like -  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: That's hooked in    41  to it?  MR. CAREY: Yes. That's where the water is coming from. It is coming from outside on the street.  And I don't know why it's : is that does it stop at that drain? So, basically, the water is coming from the road and going right in to the drain in to the cemetery and dumping all over in to the cemetery is what you're telling me?  LO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  COURT REPORTER: What's your name  again?  MR. LENCESKI: Joe Lenceski. I don't know where that water is going that's in the cemetery or that pipe is going. MR. HOOVER: That's not ours. MR. CAREY: But the storm drain is somehow on the road. It's tied in to that. So I don't know if that was to try to make a fix to try to stop it because that dip on Smith Street would flood.  You have water ponding on the water on the road. You don't have that as severe now because you have it going in to the  cemetery.    42  MR. HOOVER: So we put the one in the street. We didn't put the one in the grass. But somehow they're hooked together? MR. CAREY: Somehow. MR. LENCESKI: That storm drain in the cemetery is very old, very old.  MR. CAREY: It is?. Because it has a new cap on it and everything else. Seems  like it's new.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. LENCESKI: Then someone in the cemetery association should. know about it, because we would never go in there and do  anything.  MR. HOOVER: I can't believe we  would go in there :  MR. LENCESKI: We wouldn't. Private  property.  MR. HOOVER: Why would we tie the old one in to the new one? I don't think we would do that. That water must be coming from another catch basin somewhere, maybe on top of the hill, coming down there and coming out. Not necessarily the one that's  dry in the street.  MR. CAREY: That's taking a lot of    43  water coming down the street. That might be feeding in to there. I don't know. MR. HOOVER: I don't think it is because we wouldn't have dug it -- if he put the one in : if the Borough put the one in the street, they wouldn't dig on private property, 25 feet in, to hook it to that catch basin where the water would go in one and come out the other.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  It's private property. The Borough wouldn't do that. But that water from that catch : the pipe underground, that's coming from someplace else. Whether it's the one up on top of the hill and. coming straight down and going out to Hoover Street, I don't  even know.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: My question would be, the drain that's inside the cemetery, number one, who installed it? That's what  we have to find out.  MS. AVVISATO: May not know that. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: That's their  property.  MR. CAREY: I'11 go back and talk to Jim. I have his phone number. I just want    44  this resolved.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: I'm saying, they would have had to install it, because we didn't, because we wouldn't go on their property. We can't.  Two would be, if they did install it, whoever they had install it, did they tie it in to our pipe and now there's an issue because they did that?  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. LENCESKI: I don't know. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Right. We have to  find out who installed that.  MR. CAREY: I'11 do some leg work too, because I want to get this resolved. I'11 find out. I'11 talk to Jimmy Scavo and meet with some members of the association and find out what they did from the cemetery association and see what they did. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Since you're pretty familiar with it or the most in this room familiar with it, in that area, was there ever water ponding there prior? MR. CAREY: Not like it is now. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: But did it used  to?    45  MR. CAREY: Yeah, but it seems like recent, the last number of years, it's  getting worse.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: And I'm not. saying this, because I'm not sure. It seems like somebody in the cemetery installed that drain to try and fix the water that was  ponding there.  MR. CAREY: Whoever did, they  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  compounded the problem.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Seems that they made it worse. Seems they tied in to our  drain.  And if they did, when our drain is already taking on its own water, now it's taking on that water, so they're running in to each other and, of course it's going to back up and flood the cemetery.  MR. CAREY: And that drain and the grounds around the outside are dry. You go by the inside there, it's marshy. There's a lot of water in the cemetery, a lot of  water.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: I'm just taking a guess. It sounds that way, that that one    46  inside was connected to ours, not by us. And now the water is flowing in to it and it's such a smaller distance compared to ours, that it's pushing it back and causing all that ponding and that. MR. CAREY: That's fine. I appreciate your comments. And at least I  have some direction.  I'11 go back to the cemetery association, get some clarity on what they did do. I will come back.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Ask who installed  that drain.  MR. CAREY: Give me some time and I  will be back.  MR. FEBBO: Dave, is it physically possible that that is a French drain that somebody put in there with the idea that, if it's down deep enough, it would absorb the water, and after it got filled up, would burp back up again?  ENGINEER: Not if it's connected. If they're putting a French drain in, they  wouldn't --  MR. FEBBO: No. French drain, not    47  the ground.  ENGINEER: Yeah. I mean, they could have. But the pipe is connected, SO, I mean, that's not typically how you would put it  in.  It could go in to the ground, but it's not - I mean, the ground can't absorb  that much water.  MR. NOTARI: Is there a manhole? MR. FEBBO: That's what I'm saying. Get to the point where it can't absorb anymore and burp it back up again.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ENGINEER: It could be. But with the two of them connected, it's hard to say it's a French drain, unless they a ton of stone around the outside of it.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Mark, you said  that there was a new cap?  MR. CAREY: Seems like it's  relatively new.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Is it a manhole?. MR. CAREY: Yeah, it's a manhole. MS. AVVISATO: Manhole or drain? ENGINEER: Manhole. MR. CAREY: It's a grate. It's a    48  grate.  COURT REPORTER: One at a time,  please. Hold on.  ENGINEER: Circular drain. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: It's a grate. Why don't you talk to the association and let us  know.  MR. CAREY: I'11 come back to the next meeting, if I can in that time frame. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: No. If you find out sooner, just call Joe and let Joe know  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  at the Borough.  MR. CAREY: I just want to get it  resolved.  MR. LENCESKI: What we need to do is get Dave there to get a storm water system in to the area. That's what we need to do. Need to have the engineer come in there and alleviate that whole entire Smith Street, Hoover Street and get it down to the river. That's what we need to do.  MR. CAREY: Because I'm trying to hold back. There's a lot of family members that are really upset that I'm trying to handle this for, because I'm just trying to    49  get this resolved. They go there and it's  very upsetting.  MR. HOOVER: Mark, if you happen to go down there with Jimmy or somebody, call  me.  MR. CAREY: I will. I'11 need your  number, but that's fine.  MR. NOTARI: Joe, would you give Jimmy Scavo a call too to see if we can get behind and find out exactly what is going on  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  down there?  MR. CAREY: I have his phone number.  Ican give it to you.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Mark, just so you know, Joe and Dave are going to handle it on  our end.  But as soon as you find out the information from inside, let us know as well, so we can all  together to  find out where the issue actually is coming  from or how it began.  MR. CAREY: One other issue. I don't  want to tie up too much time.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: No, you're good.  Go ahead.    50  MR. CAREY: My son, a lot of playing Little League baseball, this is, I guess, has been an ongoing issue for a number of years, and a number of people have gone  through it.  They get the set schedule. And then constantly being bumped from certain fields, specifically Miles Field, from whoever. And I've been told, and as a parent, I'm not a coach, but I see what it does to these children. It's not just my child. The last two and a half years, children have gone through a lot, with this pandemic, not seeing friends, wearing masks, not being able to go here and there. Now they have turmoil, to my son and his friends during this last season where they were bumped multiple times. They're ready  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  for a game.  The one night, Brian Ravioli, the head of the association, had a photographer coming up from Allentown and somebody bumped them. He had to call, within a days' notice, to cancel the photos. That's not right. I don't know who gets the authority    51  to bump them off the field.  Who controls the fields? They're  Borough fields, correct?  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Borough fields. MR. CAREY: Now, the Old Forge Lions Club, which I'm a member for many years, sponsors the Little League. We're the one that gave them the charter.  Number one, I don't see our name on the billboard or anything. That's another  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  matter. But :  MR. NOTARI: Let's start with that matter. All those boards up at the park, at the Miles Street fields, they are done by  the Little League.  The Little League, there's a board of directors for the Little League. Right? They solicit the community for those advertising boards there.  MR. CAREY: Not the board. I'm talking about : it's not on the main score board, the score board that you should have something there. That's a different issue. But on the score board.  MR. NOTARI: Score board was put up    52  by the Little League.  MR. CAREY: And they have Old Forge Lions Little League, home of the devils. And underneath, little caption and softball, something to that effect.  MR. NOTARI: Score board was put up by the Old Forge Lions Little League. MR. CAREY: My question is this, that's considered the Little League, but it is also the missy league. Then you have Don Pagnotti, which is called the softball  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  complex.  So, my question is, as a Borough, why can't there be specific fields that are dedicated for different - why can't the Little League have a field at Pagnotti? And that would be their field. And the girls could have the missy league field.  MR. NOTARI: One, I think it's kind of discriminatory, first off. Two, there's  no missy league.  The Old Forge Lions Little League sponsors baseball and softball in the Borough of Old Forge. Falls under the Little  League mandate.    53  MR. CAREY: Correct. MR. NOTARI: So, everybody that's playing; boys and girls, no matter what age group, it's Old Forge Lions Little League is the sponsor and is the organization. MR. CAREY: All right. But the people that are running these teams and : MR. NOTARI: Boys and girls. MR. CAREY: Yeah. So, basically, this issue about' these fields and who, it's at that level. So I need to go to that. All right. Because I'11 go back -  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. NOTARI: To be honest with you, Mark, in my opinion, it's the president of the Little League that determines who : or the schedule committee or whatever they have, who plays where.  Now, yes, we do have an issue between the school and the Little League. This is an issue there with the school teams  and the Little League.  MR. CAREY: But the fields are  Borough fields.  MR. NOTARI: Fields are Borough fields. Fields are Borough fields.    54  MR. CAREY: Because it's frustrating, because now have, I said, well, this is the way it's always being done.  How is that fair if you have children waiting to play and you're getting ready and people running their family and dealing with other children, and then the day of the game, well, they're not playing, they're bumped because that's the way it's always has been. That, to me, is insulting that, you know, well, somebody from whatever, the missy league or whoever, decides they' 're taking that field. That's  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  just not right.  MR. NOTARI: Stop. You're using the wrong terminology. It's not missy league. And it's not a different organization than  the Little League.  If there are girl softball teams, youth softball teams bumping boys youth baseball teams, it's coming from the same league. If it's the high school team, then  it's different.  MR. CAREY: They are Borough fields. MR. NOTARI: They are.    55  MR. CAREY: That's cool. That's all  I need to know.  MR. BUTLER: It is the high school team. And let me ask you one question, Mark. Why does the Little league not play on Saturday and Sunday?  MR. CAREY: That I don't know. I'm  not a coach. I do not know.  MR. BUTLER: That field is completely empty both those days.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. CAREY: Part of that problem is because a lot of these children have gone out of Little League for different reasons. Maybe it's because of what I'm describing. They just get frustrated.  A lot of them are involved in these traveling leagues. And when they do that, it's on Saturday and Sunday. And that's when they're traveling. That's part of the  problem.  MR. BUTLER: Yeah, that is part of  the problem.  MR. NOTARI: Mark : MS. BARTOLETTI: Because of the league that the Little League participants    56  in because the Little League itself only has two teams in Old Forge. The rest of the teams are from out of town.  They don't play most of their games on weekends. They play during the week. And when the Little League has a game and the high school game gets canceled and has to be rescheduled, that's how they get bumped off  the field.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  It's not Little League boys versus Little League girls. It's Little League, in general, versus high school needing to use the field. So they get canceled because of weather, they take the next :  MR. BUTLER: Pretty much saying that field isn't getting used on Saturday and Sunday, because these people are playing of travel ball. That is no concern  MS. BARTOLETTI: Because of league that they're in. They can't control the league they're in, because Old Forge only has two teams. So :  MR. NOTARI: They could control the  league that they're in. MR. BUTLER: Right.    57  MS. BARTOLETTI: Well, Little League itself used to have many teams. Now they just have two teams in Old Forge. So they have to go elsewhere and find teams to play. MR. CAREY: Let them play on the field on Saturday and Sunday to make up that game. They're getting told, well, that's the way it is. They get preference over the  field. It's nonsense.  LO  MR. NOTARI: Mark, we have discussed this in a previous meeting. MR. CAREY: Yes, we have. MR. NOTARI: Like I told you, and going forward, we are going to figure out a way to prevent this from happening. MR. CAREY: You let me know who I need to be involved with or I need to talk to. I'11 be a part of that. I'11 participate in those conversations.  12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. NOTARI: I don't think you need to be, but if we need : if we need you as a representative of the Little League, then : MR. CAREY: Or as the Lions, that's  fine.  MR. FEBBO: We, as council, will be    58  addressing that.  MR. CAREY: All right. But thank you for your time on both matters.  MR. NOTARI: You're welcome. Thanks  for coming.  MR. CAREY: Like I said, I will be in touch with the people on this first issue. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Thanks, Mark.  Robert Kania, K-a-n-i-a.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. KANIA: I'm here to appeal the ruling on the handicapped parking on Melmore Street on the side of my house.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: You applied for  the handicapped parking spot? MR. KANIA: Yes, we did. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: That's your  address.  MR. KANIA: Yes, took care of that. The reason I did, on Melmore Street, from 8 in the morning until 3:00 in the afternoon, that's a parking lot. And most of those people park right on the sidewalk.  Not only can't you walk down the sidewalk, you could never get a wheelchair  down the sidewalk.    59  We do have concrete in front : there is a parking area in front of our garage but that's used for medical people, physical therapists and the nurse, busy nurses that come over every day.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: So, Chris, this  was an application?  MR. HART: Yep, I have the  application.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: He came for the handicapped spot. But he does have a  driveway.  MR. HART: Correct, he has a driveway. And the Chief and I both looked at it. Due to the driveway, you know, it is  a denial on it.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: It's a denial. MR. HART: Off-street parking. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: But you're saying that you're appealing it because, the driveway is used for medical purposes. MR. KANIA: For visiting medical people that come in and out on a daily  basis.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Also, I thought    60  Chris mentioned it to us before or to me. Is the driveway -- if you have the van with the handicapped, with the wheelchair, is it the driveway too small to : MR. KANIA: Too small. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: - to operate with the wheelchair getting out and everything? MR. KANIA: Yeah.  MR. HART: I have a picture, if you  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  would like to see it.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Sure. Although  I'm familiar with the house.  MS. BARTOLETTI: If it's something that doesn't conform with the ordinance, we have no choice but to reject it to send it to you guys. So that's why we wanted to approve it, if you can, because it's not what the ordinance says. You guys could but  we can't. We can't.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: We could. According to the. ordinance, they can't. MS. AVVISATO: Got it. MS. BARTOLETTI: Mr. Kania, what's  the address?  MR. KANIA: 540 West Grace.    61  MR. NOTARI: Do you want to put the  spot in front of the fence?  MR. KANIA: Yeah, on the side of the  house.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: On Melmore. MR. KANIA: Oh, on Melmore. Not on  Grace.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: On a corner.  It's Apache, isn't it?  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  CHIEF DUBERNAS: No. Melmore, then  it starts  MR. HOOVER: Apache is the other  side.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: Still Melmore for two houses and then turns to Apache.  MR. NOTARI: I know what house I'm  thinking.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: 540 West Grace. MR. KANIA: 540 West Grace. MR. NOTARI: Let me ask you this question. Do we have to make it exclusive to his handicapped number? You might have a handicapped grandparent parking there, waiting for their kids to get out of school  in that spot.    62  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: No. We could make it--if we want, we could make it exclusive, just for his license plate. ATTORNEY RINALDI: Not exclusive. Anybody who is handicapped can park there. They're not exclusive. Can't do that. I mean, the state says you can't do that, not  me.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: We have in the Borough of Old Forge though at other places. ATTORNEY RINALDI: I'm just saying that they forbade them. They won't prosecute them. He can't write a ticket. Somebody has a handicapped plate and is there and somebody comes out and says, no, that's mine. No, it's not. It's a public handicapped. I mean, just so we know, somebody else uses it.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: What about the ones we have in the other places currently? ATTORNEY RINALDI: He can't write a ticket out. I don't know what the signs  said.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: Never had an issue  before.    63  MR. NOTARI: At the worse, it will  scare people.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: One person was complaining that somebody was using their handicapped parking place a couple years ago. Well, anybody can use it.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Why can't we make  this one exclusive then?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Can't make them exclusive under the law, not allowed.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Allowed to make  them prior to this?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Allowed to make them handicapped parking place. That's it. Designate them handicapped parking. But you can't say it's this person's only.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Okay. So, we're going to put your appeal on the agenda  tonight.  MR. KANIA: Okay.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: That will be under  new business.  MR. KANIA: Thank you. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: You're welcome. Thanks, Mr. Kania. Have a good night. Joanie    64  Wilk.  MS. WILK: Yeah. On June 5th, there was a call of a neighbor, problems on Fallon  Street.  My concern is it's a very, highly reputable business person is constantly being harassed by Brianne Capwell, who rents a house next door to his.  His wife cannot go in to that drive, without this woman harassing. It's to a point that Mr. Gillette is thinking of selling his house in fear for the safety of his family, because of this woman.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  And on June 5th, it took the police over 20 minutes to get to Fallon Street. Mayor, I would like you to check the 911 calls, why it took long.  MAYOR LEGG: What date was that? MS. WILK: June 5th. The police  officer that  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: The Chief said he  could answer that.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: I could answer why it took them so long. They had a EDP male that ran out of the house naked in the    65  wooded area and they were looking for him. That was explained to Mr. and Mrs. Gillette at the time of the call.  MS. WILK: Okay. But, no matter, they constantly call the police department down there because of this woman harassing them. Harassing them.  And one of the employees that did come down there, when one of the neighbors says, do something, your Officer stated that Brianne Capwell, she has a right to freedom of speech. I believe in freedom of speech. But she harasses these people to no extent. Bobby Gillette has helped people in this community. People who couldn't afford to bury their loved ones, he buried them for free. And he has to put up with this stuff? It's not right, Chief. It's not right. CHIEF DUBERNAS: We haven't had an issue in almost a month, when we straightened it all out.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. WILK: Well, it's not straightened out, because, constantly, Mrs. Gillette has to take her children down to her sister-in-laws' place in Dalton or    66  Dallas.  CHIEF  Haven't called the  police since the next day because I was there the next day. That was the 5th. The Monday I was there for about 40 some  minutes.  MS. WILK: You people still didn't help this guy. This guy is ready to sell his house. For what? For a piece of garbage from West Scranton that comes down here? CHIEF DUBERNAS: Well, there's more to the story with that. There's a Court Order involved with that lady being there. The solicitor could tell you that, because I've already been down this road. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: My question is, Joe; not to interrupt you. If the police are called numerous times, Bill, to a property, after the third time, it's considered a nuisance.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Under our ordinance, can't we take  action against the property?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: You can cite the  owner.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: And the owner has a    67  Court Order. I've already been down the road with this. We addressed this issue. So, she's a couple weeks behind. You know what I mean? Please come talk to me. I'1l tell you the whole story.  MS. WILK: Well, I haven't had a chance to come up because I wasn't feeling  too well.  I'm just disgusted that here's a businessman, who has helped this community. CHIEF DUBERNAS: We understand that. MS. WILK: He's putting his house up  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  for sale, Jason.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: We understand that  and we :  MS. WILK: You. understand it? CHIEF DUBERNAS: When addressed this issue. And when we left on the 6th, everything was resolved.  MS. WILK: Not resolved. CHIEF DUBERNAS: We don't know that, because we haven't had a police call. We haven't had an issue there. We ride there  all the time.  MS. WILK: The bottom line is, they    68  don't have any faith. Same day when Chris had to go down there with 16 bags of garbage on their back porch. Am I correct on that? MR. HART: They were taken out. MS. WILK: They gave you a hard time  too, just like everybody else.  MR. HART: Right. But I got it  taken out.  MS. WILK: Beside the point. I'm just saying, the quality of the person. I mean, she is just no damn good.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  And people in this town, when you get these carpet baggers that come in and just destroy the place. And people don't : starting not to have faith in anybody, which  is wrong.  MR. HOOVER: So, last month, Lynn Deandreal (phonetic) was here with Bernie Deandreal, who are neighbors down there. MS. WILK: Right. They're  neighbors.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Mrs. Gillette was  here.  MR. HOOVER: Mrs. Gillette was here herself and explained. We were here 40    69  minutes discussing -  MR. FEBBO: 2, 3 hours. MR. HOOVER: Easy 40 minutes just her talking and we discussed it. We did get a letter from Lynn Deandreal this week. It says, hi all. Thanks again for your help and concerns with the problem neighborhood on Fallon Street. The increased police protection and presence has been amazing. Also. helped yet with another altercation yesterday afternoon. We appreciate all you're doing and hope that the patrols continue. So Jason and his gang have been doing the best we can.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. WILK: What could we do to get  rid of her?  MR. HOOVER: Problem getting rid of  her is a problem.  MS. WILK: Put on the rail and take  her out of town. CHIEF Court Order.  She's there on a  MS. AVVISATO: Hire you to do that. CHIEF DUBERNAS: She's on a Court  Order.    70  MS. WILK: Owner of the property, find out what we can charge him with.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Joanie, it's not specifically just, how do we get rid of her. We're not singling her or anyone out. It's people in the borough who are breaking the laws and the ordinances. That's why I  asked -  MS. WILK: I understand that. I understand that, Mr. Rinaldi. But what I'm saying is, here's a man who has dedicated himself to the Borough, and I know - CHAIRMAN RINALDI: I'm not disagreeing. I know Mr. Gillette for 45 years. I went to school since in first  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  grade.  MS. WILK: I don't know about school. You know, I don't know about going to school. Come on, kid. I know you since  you were a baby.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: My point is, I know him a long time. We spoke four times on the phone within the past, I want to say,  two months.  MS. WILK: But it's terrible that    71  man is thinking on selling his home.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: I agree with it.  It is.  MS. WILK: For what? A piece of trash from West Scranton? That's all she is. By the way, the day the guy that Bobby, the teacher on a Friday, that weekend, I saw him and he was on the porch. And that Sunday, he lit himself behind my house. You tell me about that. Those people are no good. ChAIRMAN RINALDI: I didn't understand that. I'm sorry.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. WILK: Bobby Williams, I saw him  on Friday.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: Let's not talk  about this. Come on now.  MS. WILK: I'm talking about it. MR. NOTARI: We don't need to talk  about that.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: President, this is ridiculous now with her, bringing up an incident like that. You need to cut this off. This is really an embarrassment to the  Williams family.  MS. WILK: It's not embarrassing to    72  the Williams family.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: Yes, you are. MS. WILK: Telling you what kind of  garbage you have :  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Joanie. MS. WILK: - where this guy was. Don't you get smart with me, Jason. CHIEF DUBERNAS: I'm not getting smart with you. But that's embarrassing to  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  the Williams family.  MS. WILK: Yeah, you are. Just don't want to hear the fucking truth.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Mrs. Wilk, please.  Anything else, Mrs. Wilk?  MS. WILK: No. Let the police do  their job.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Danielle Wenzler. MS. WENZLER: Actually, I e-mailed most of you a few videos. I think I tried to get everybody that was on the list. I'm actually here pretty much with one of my neighbors, some of them also couldn't come, regarding Walter Stocki and  Scrap Enterprises.  Now, it's a continuing issue. And I    73  know you're going to say, it's in the Judge's hands. I know that's the typical rhetoric, that it's in the Judge's hand, in the Judge's hands. But we have zoning codes and ordinances here, correct? CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. MS. WENZLER: Correct? CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. MS. WENZLER: That we follow, correct? So, I'm going to give you a  10 11 12 13 14. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  scenario.  5:30 in the morning, I'm sleeping. And you saw the videos. They were dated and timed. And you hear that going on. We're told to call the non-emergency number. We do that. The police call.  They go up there. What's the next step that should happen? Should he be cited for a violation, for working at 5:30 in the  morning?  MR. HOOVER: I think he should be,  yes.  MS. WENZLER: Not what think. What  do our codes say?  CHIEF DUBERNAS: If our guys go there    74  and he's not working :  MS. WENZLER: No, no, no, no. He's not working. His vehicle was idling. If you think that I'm going to call and get up at 5:30 in the morning, with a screaming 3-year-old, just because I hear a vehicle idling, you're out of your mind. This is  ridiculous.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: I watched the video  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  after I got them to play.  MS. WENZLER: This is every day. So, now it's in Judge Munley's hands still, correct? Yes. It's still in his hands. MR. NOTARI: It is not in Judge  Munley's hands.  MS. WENZLER: That's what I'm told  by him, that it's in Judge :  MR. NOTARI: Right? His Order has been handed down, right, Bill?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: In a violation MS. WENZLER: He's violating code,  not even what he's doing :  ATTORNEY RINALDI: You need to come asa witness. Because, if he doesn't see it,  you have to be there.    75  MS. WENZLER: Okay. I'm reporting it. Nobody is coming to me. Am I supposed to do my own investigative work and figure  all this out?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: What I was told was, when the zoning officer went out there, it was on the property next door and supposedly cited. So, I don't know. I mean  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. WENZLER: Because when I talked to Zoning, he tells me there's nothing he can do. And I'm not going to stand here and lie in front of you. That's not something that's not something that I will do. I'm not coming here, leaving my family tonight. I am told it's in the Judge's hands and there's nothing you can do. If you have that much of a problem, have you called the D.A.s office? Have you  gone to hearings?  Isaid, so, wait a second. He heard me screaming at him in my back yard. And I said, so you're a liar if you're telling me that he can go out there at 5:30 in the morning, the police can show up and see him    76  doing something. And he said, no, there's nothing we can do. It's in the Judge's hands. I'm sick and tired of it.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: That's wrong. MS. WENZLER: It is. It's all wrong. The police walked up on him and they told me, they stood in my yard and told me they saw him burning and torching last summer. I  have the date written.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: If the police saw  him :  MS. WENZLER: And they did nothing. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Well, then : MS. WENZLER: They told him to stop,  is what they told me.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Well, if the  police see him :  CHIEF DUBERNAS: Last summer? MS. WENZLER: Yes, last summer. A male police officer, because I took pictures in front of the police car, when they came, because it was a male and a female.  And they just come and let my little guy smile. in front of the police car and smile and everything, because he was nervous    77  when he saw us in the backyard.  They came to my house afterwards. Because I said, when you leave there, I want you to come to my house. They came to my house. What was going on, we snuck up on him. He was torching. We told him to stop.  Okay. Okay.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: They should have  cited him.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. WENZLER: He should have been cited at 5:30 in the morning, 5:45. This is just happening. It's every week he's doing  this.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: If they catch him  or anyone else in the Borough -  MS. WENZLER: So, any more, when I call, they're coming to my house. We're going to stand in. my back yard and listen to  it.  They're not going to tell me that it's Gilchrist or anybody else. It's him. I hear them yelling. They're driving across the property. He hears it. Are we all liars? Or we going to go believe Stocki and  what he says?    78  This is ridiculous that we have to live like this. The neighborhood is filled with smoke. When I'm calling 911, taking my 3-year-old in the house, we don't live near his property. We should not be smelling or  seeing this.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Chris, did you go up there and see him doing anything? MR. HART: Not at 5:30 in the  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  morning.  MS. WENZLER: You know what he told me? He said, I'm not working then. Guess what? I wasn't awake either.  MR. HART: I'm not up there at 5:30 in the morning. If the police go up there and they say, no, there's nobody up there, what am I supposed to do on that note?  MS. WENZLER: No. He was idling his vehicle. I'm a liar. I'm making it all up. MR. HOOVER: I live a block away. And I hear it all the time too. MR. HART: I live closer. MR. HOOVER: Live closer. When the cops go there, do they ever cite anybody? MS. WENZLER: No.    79  CHIEF DUBERNAS: We always gave the reports to zoning. Give them the reports. MR. FEBBO: That's bullshit. MS. WENZLER: It is bullshit. MR. HOOVER: That's the problem. They go up there and tell the guy  MR. FEBBO: Five and a half years : COURT REPORTER: One at à time. MR. FEBBO: : on this council, same  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  shit every time.  MS. WENZLER: I'm calling the police at 5:30 in the morning. I have a screaming 3-year-old. Like, not a way to start my Monday on June 2nd. And then I hear : MR. HART: I understand. I live in the neighborhood. But there's nothing we can do. Our hands are tied. It's in the Judge's  hands.  MS. WENZLER: No, it's not in the Judge's hands. You're an elected official.  Do your job.  MR. HART: Milly : MS. WENZLER: Ridiculous. I can't  live like this. Nobody can.  MR. HART: When it comes to zoning :    80  COURT REPORTER: Hold on. One at a  time.  MR. HOOVER: All I got was noise. MR. HART: They're totally separate  from -  MS. WENZLER: 5:30 in the morning. MR. HART: The zoning issues with the equipment and the scraps, they're totally  separate.  10 11 12 13 14. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ATTORNEY RINALDI: This is besides  MS. WENZLER: Right, that's : COURT REPORTER: Hold on. Wait a  minute. One at a time.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: I told you he can  be cited for noise.  MR. HART: Correct, for noise. MS. WENZLER: Then why isn't he? ATTORNEY RINALDI: We have a noise ordinance, can't operate between certain  hours.  MS. WENZLER: 7:00 in the morning  until 8 at night.  COURT REPORTER: Hold on. One at a  time.    81  MS. WENZLER: Was any police reports  ever filed for all these?  COURT REPORTER: Hold on. ATTORNEY RINALDI: The last two incidents, I heard that it was not on his property. It was on the property next door and I said, cite that person. Now, you're telling me something different than what I  was told.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. WENZLER: You hear them yelling to each other. You hear them driving back and forth. It is right there.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Whoever is making the noise, it's an easy citation. You get their name and address and you have a  hearing.  MR. FEBBO: Have any citations been written in the last fiye, six months? MS. WENZLER: No.  MR. FEBBO: Have there been several  comments that :  MS. WENZLER: I call all the time every time and I video it every time. MR. FEBBO: Why are citations not  being written?    82  CHIEF DUBERNAS: The incident that she sent me yesterday from a year ago. MS. WENZLER: No, no. It was this past six months and maybe one from last summer, when he was torching, when he should  have been cited.  Two officers stood in the back of my property, and we talked for about 45  minutes.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  CHIEF DUBERNAS: Do you know the day  of that?  MS. WENZLER: Yeah. Actually - CHIEF DUBERNAS: I have November  19th, July 7th.  MS. WENZLER: July 31st, last summer. MR. HOOVER: 11/19/21, he was  burning.  MR. NOTARI: June :  MS. WENZLER: That was the one where Iactually spoke to you, Chief. I called you on November 19th and it was in my bathroom window that I see a fire burning. COURT REPORTER: I can't hear, like, one person at a time. I'm sorry. Mr. Notari, did you want :    83  MR. NOTARI: I have two videos that say June 17. Is that June 17th :  MS. WENZLER: 5:30 in the morning. MR. NOTARI: Last week? MS. WENZLER: Just this past June. MR. FEBBO: Did you call the police? MS. WENZLER: I called the police,  called non-emergency number.  MR. FEBBO: Did the police show up? MS. WENZLER: They said : they never called me back. They don't call me back. They just say, all right, I just got on shift, because they don't call. You know, you wait 15, 20 minutes.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  called 3 times, called at 5:30, called at 5:48, and then nothing happened. 6:15, I called. And the guy is like, oh, I didn't hear any of this. I just got on shift. It must have been the other guy. So then I called : I texted him 5:48 the other morning, because he's not awake and he's not working. Well, I wasn't awake either, so maybe he is then. And he  can hear it.  If he walked out his door, he can    84  here it. It's ridiculous, and it's frustrating because we already had Chris Getz and his wife move. She's got health  problems.  They moved, because they can't handle it. We!re ready to put our house up for sale. They're ready to move. This is ridiculous that - aren't these codes supposed to be in place so that for the livelihood of the community. And we have these things in place so our lives aren't  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  disrupted.  I'm sick and tire. Why aren't more people here? Because, like she said, they're losing faith. Nothing is being done. And we keep hearing, I don't know. Nothing I can do. It's in the Judge's hands.  So, I said to him, so, you mean to tell me, he can go out there at 5:30 in the morning because you're not working, and it's a non-criminal matter, you can do whatever you want in your front yard. That's what I'm going to do and we will see if something happens and see if I get cited, because he's not working and it's not criminal.    85  So I'11 make sure it's within the code guidelines and it's not considered a criminal matter. This is ridiculous.  MR. HOOVER: He's not working, grant  it. He isn't at work at 5.  MS. WENZLER: I wasn't up and neither was my 3-year-old.  MR. HOOVER: I know that. But to have the police department go up and not cite somebody for something at that time of the day is absolutely ludicrous. MS. WENZLER: Sunday morning, Memorial Weekend. Just this past Memorial Weekend, Sunday morning at 8:00 in the morning, call the police. He was working.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  And it's not quiet.  It's not like he's just back there idling a vehicle. I can handle if Gilchrist or somebody is idling a vehicle. You don't  hear it.  I hear the turnpike and I'm used to it. That does not bother me. What bothers me is the dumping. And he told me that every single vehicle starts up. The Judge has looked in to it. Every single vehicle    86  starts up.  This is coming from Chris here. I'm not making any of this up. They checked in to it. They all start up.  He's allowed to bring vehicles in that he can fix. Is that true? Is he allowed to bring vehicles in to fix them on  the property?  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. FEBBO: That's bullshit. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: No. MS. WENZLER: Right. MR. FEBBO: They have to run,  operate.  MS. WENZLER: Agree. And I have the video that I sent to the police department ina non-operation vehicle that was missing tires. And he told me that it starts up. MR. FEBBO: That's bullshit. MS. WENZLER: I have the video. We  followed him.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: One second. Did  you tell her it starts up? MR. HART: It did. MR. FEBBO: Everything COURT REPORTER: Hold on. Wait.    87  MR. FEBBO: Junk pile. MS. WENZLER: Çame in with no tires,  but it runs.  MR. FEBBO: Take a piece of equipment with no tires on it and it could start. But it has to be operating to get off the loader, off the loader.  MS. WENZLER: Right. And he brought it in on an easeway that's not even permitted for him to even bring it in to the  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  property.  MR. FEBBO: Too much junk laying there that should not there be.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: There's definitely not every vehicle on that property is operating. It cannot be.  MR. HART: We went through the list with Munley's rule. Billy, did we not? CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Not what I'm saying. This is what I'm saying. There is definitely not every vehicle on that property is operational. I don't care who  tells me this.  MS. WENZLER: And the scrap tires  hanging over the hill.    88  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Can't tell me that  it is.  MR. HART: There's a list that he had to go by, did he not, Billy? We went  through it.  MR. BUTLER: The vehicles aren't on  the list.  MR. HART: We were there. MS. WENZLER: Right. MR. HART: And Munley went through everything right down the list. And the only one that Walter Stocki is challenging is the fact this his parts are running  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  machines.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Operational  machines.  MR. HART: Operational machines,  yes.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Means they start  and move.  MR. HART: And that's where this is all left. This is where it's left hanging  with it.  MR. FEBBO: It's to be resolved.  Okay.    89  MR. HART: Correct, noise is  separate.  MR. HOOVER: My question is still, we know he's doing something. We know he's doing something wrong. Why don't we cite  him?  MS. WENZLER: Because it's in the Judge's hands, is what I am told.  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. HOOVER: I don't want to hear  that.  MR. NOTARI: I need a timeout here. Ineed a timeout. Is it in the Judge's hands, Bill, or is it done with?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: For all that stuff, no. The only thing left is us going back and ordering to clean up the piles. That's it and get his -  MS. WENZLER: Which we get 1 COURT REPORTER: Hold on. MR. NOTARI: Judge Munley made his  decision.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Nonoperational equipment, every time somebody makes a phone call that I get a call, I send him up to make sure it's operational.    90  MR. NOTARI: No issue - we have no  court case right now?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: I can't be the one down here inspecting. So, I call the zoning and say, does it run or not run? He tells me they run. They start up  there and they run.  MR. FEBBO: Let me say this, you're right, he gives you a list. He gave the Judge a list of machinery that ran. What about the stuff that doesn't run we're talking about? I can give you a list.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. HART: Those are included in the piles that have to be cleaned up.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Those have to be  cleaned up.  MS. WENZLER: So we get to listen to that at 5:30 in the morning to start. Going to start at 5:30 in the morning. I'm going to call the police. They're going to call him. Nothing is going to happen.  The next day, I'm going to call at 5:30. We're going to listen to it all day long, the crunching, the banging, windows shaking. My toddler is not napping.    91  MR. FEBBO: You're right. MS. WENZLER: Smelling all the smoke. He's been given three and a half years to clean up a 90 day -  MR. FEBBO: Five and a half years. MS. WENZLER: Okay. Five and a half to clean up in 90 days. 90 days to clean up. Five and a half years later, we're still cleaning up 90 days.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. FEBBO: Many 90 days. Many 60  days.  MS. WENZLER: We have to listen to  it.  MR. FEBBO: You should be on this  side.  MS. WENZLER: Why hasn't he been  cited, is my question.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Why hasn't he  been cited is my question.  MS. WENZLER: Two incidences, two  noise complaints.  MR. HART: Because the noise is  happening in the morning.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Okay. Then, Chief, if the police went up there and said, he's    92  just doing  CHIEF DUBERNAS: Trying to look now. Ican't get in to the Comm. Center or my  reports.  MS. WENZLER: Might hear me screaming in Comm. Center because my 3-year-old was screaming bloody murder and I was ready to  jump the bridge.  MR. FEBBO: Bottom line, guys, you  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  guys are not doing the job.  MS. WENZLER: I can't even sit in my  yard.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: This goes back to the other incident. More than three calls to the same address is a nuisance ordinance. Why hasn't that been enacted?  It's three. I mean, there's got to be 30 calls. But after 3, it's considered a nuisance property. He could just be cited  for that.  We don't have to catch him torching. We don't have to càtch him starting equipment. We can cite him for that and we could actually start a process to shut him down. Why haven't we done any of that?    93  MS. WENZLER: Good question. That's  why I'm here asking you.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: He's got the  list.  MS. WENZLER: That's what I'm asking. I mean, at what point do I -  COURT REPORTER: I can only take one  at a time. Wait a second, ma'am.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: I'm going to ask the question one more time. We don't need to get the comm. center. We don't need to worry about start a vehicle. We don't need to worry about any of that.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  If an address in the Borough of Old Forge has three calls against it for a nuisance, it's deemed a nuisance property.  Is that correct?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: I don't know if  that's exactly right, but.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: We can : COURT REPORTER: Hold on. Wait a second. Hold on. I'm not hearing anybody. Hold on a second. Wait a minute, ma'am. I have to hear what they said because it's becoming impossible.    94  CHIEF DUBERNAS: I said, if we go to an address - so, if somebody calls to come to your restaurant three. times for loud music, we go there three times and there's no loud music, I send you a letter for a  nuisance?  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: No, no. But : CHIEF DUBERNAS: Yeah, yes. That's  what you're just telling me.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: No, it's not what  I'm telling you.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: Yes, you are. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: There was an  Officer there who saw :  COURT REPORTER: Hold on. Hold on. CHIEF DUBERNAS: That told us : CHAIRMAN RINALDI: He's been there multiple times that they've been running  equipment.  MS. WENZLER: Yes.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: They're cutting. They're torching. They're smoking. They're banging. He's been there. He goes there and tells her, I can't do nothing. It's in the Judge's hands, but he could do    95  something.  MR. HART: I don't know but CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Report it to you. MR. HART: Still an operating  business.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: It doesn't matter.  It's still a nuisance.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: The time I was there, he was cited. As a matter of fact, the solicitor was in court with me. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Operating businesses or not, it's still a nuisance. MS. WENZLER: I stood there with police officers and I tell them to come to my house first. I tell them first. Any more, that's what I'm doing.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Isay, I call the 911, the non-emergency. I say, I'm calling about a non-emergency noise complaint, could you please have the police department call me? Because, what happens is, when they say it over, they yell to each other and they stop. They radio to each other. Stocki  hears it. They stop.  So, we've heard them say, stop,    96  stop, stop, call me, call me. Like, we've  heard them.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yeah, they have  scanners.  MS. WENZLER: They do. So I'd say, don't call it over. Could you please come  to my house?  They come to my house. We stand there and we listen. Could you please smell it, hear it, see it? Because, in the Order, he's supposed to mitigate all sounds, smells and everything coming from that property. And he's also supposed to follow the codes. He's not doing that. They stand there and go, all right, we'll go over there. And  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  then they go.  So, any more, at 5:30 in the morning, I'm going to, call them. They're going to come to my house first. They're going to stand there and they're going to  listen.  He's going to get the video of the text message of this happening also too. If Iwant to walk out his door and, you know, since me and my 3-year-old have to be up and    97  the rest of the neighborhood have to be up, he can also hear too, if he wants, if he just opens up his door and listens to it because he can hear it and he's a block over from us. And he can hear it.  This is ridiculous that this is happening and we hear, he's a business. He's this. He's violating codes.  He came in to this town without even the proper permits and operated for five years, without proper permits.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Are you kidding me? And now he's continually. I stood here last time and I told all of you and I looked at you and I said, money talks, people walk.  Well, we found out what happens there. It's still happening, because this is BS that we have to live like this and we're told, there is nothing we can do. We go there and he had equipment idling.  Oh, that's what I'm calling on. I'm calling on just little sounds that's happening with the birds chipping. No, I'm not. I have something else better to do with my time and not even stand here. This is    98  ridiculous.  And I'm not just speaking for myself. I'm speaking for everyone that lives on that street and they're fed up. MR. HOOVER: There's over 17, 18 different nuisance acts. And at the bottom, it says C. Three or more incidences required a response from the Old Forge Borough Police Department or code enforcement division shall be deemed a nuisance property.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. NOTARI: Before you even get that far, Jim, 229-4. For anybody that doesn't know our code, and I don't know the code.  I'm reading it.  Definition of nuisance, unlawful acts. As used in this chapter, the term nuisance shall mean any use of property within the Borough of Old Forge or any condition upon that property within the Borough of Old Forge, which causes or results in, one, annoyance or discomfort the persons beyond the boundaries of that property. Period.  Don't even have to go past one.    99  Let's go past one. Two, interference with the health, safety and welfare of persons beyond the boundary of that property and/or, three, the disturbance to or interference with the peaceful use of property of others within the Borough. I don't get it. MS. WENZLER: No.  MR. NOTARI: I don't get it. Why are  we not -  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. HOOVER: What's taking so long? MR. NOTARI: Why are we not citing  him as a nuisance?  MR. FEBBO: Never get the first one to be written, the first nuisance to be written. If we have three written, we have  something.  MS. WENZLER: Right. Why are we afraid to cite him? Like, what is the  issue?  MR. NOTARI: I don't know why there's any interpreting when it's there in black  and white.  A neighbor is being put out by another neighbor. It's a nuisance. I don't  know.    100  MS. WENZLER: The smell is so bad the one day, he said to me, well, he said a vehicle overheated. For three and a half hours? The whole neighborhood was filled. The one day the fire department was called, about a year ago, because that explosion in Taylor, people were outside, freaking out, oh my God, what is that? There's smell of gas.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  My husband and I walk out the door and we went, that's just when it rains. It smells like that in this neighborhood now. When it rains, when it's a hot day and you get the wind coming at you, the smell is so overwhelming of fumes that I take my little guy inside, get him inside. He can't be smelling this.  MR. FEBBO: That's a nuisance. MS. WENZLER: No, it's not. It's in  the Court's hands.  MR. NOTARI: Not in the Court's  hands.  MS. WENZLER: I'm just saying, this  is what I'm hearing.  MR. NOTARI. On the record, on the    101  record, it is not in the Court's hands. Anybody tells you that, they're lying to  you.  MS. WENZLER: Okay. Then I was lied to on June 2nd and June 17th in every conversations I've had with them.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: It's not in the  Court's hands. You can't :  MR. HART: For the noise, correct?  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  For the noise.  COURT REPORTER: Wait a minute. Hold on. I can only take one at a time. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Hold on, hold on. COURT REPORTER: Hold on. Who's  talking?  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Bill is. ATTORNEY RINALDI: Not in the Court's hands. You can cite him for doing anything wrong. The case is over.  MR. HART: Right. But Judge Munley  said he's allowed to operate.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: If I go back on the piles, if go back in the cases. But anything else he does down there, we got to  hold the ordinance.    102  MR. HART: Right. So he's operating. So every time we go up there, he's moving equipment around. He's moving machines  around.  MS. WENZLER: At 5:30 in the morning. MR. HART: So, you're saying we are going to start this over, like we talked about last time and I'm going to go back to  the Magistrate.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Anything he does, he can write a ticket. You can write a ticket. There's an ordinance there.  You write a violation and you file  it in the Magistrate's.  MR. HART: We talked about this last time, about starting it over and going to  the Magistrate.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Anything new, because I asked, what's he doing now? And you hadn't seen him a couple months. If he's acting up again, you go down and cite  him.  MR. HART: Noise, always noise. ATTORNEY RINALDI: I don't care what iti is, anything under our ordinance that    103  he's doing wrong.  MS. WENZLER: See, this is the  problem.  MR. HART: We talked about this, starting this over and going to the Magistrate. But it's noise. So, every time  Igo up there, what?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: That's your job  to go up there.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. HART: And I do. And we go up there. And the fire department goes up  there.  MS. WENZLER: This is a shame. Can I  COURT REPORTER: Wait a minute. Excuse me. Hold on second. Please help me. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: One at a time. One at a time. Chris; what are you saying that we're starting this over? I don't  know.  MR. HART: I'11 go down to the Magistrate and start. this. over to get rid of  Stocki and this all.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Wait, wait, wait,  stop, stop.    104  ATTORNEY RINALDI: You're not getting rid of him. You're just citing him for  violations.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: I don't know talking about starting over.  MR. HART: Every time I go up there, there's no activity taking place.  MR. FEBBO: You know what, Chris? Go to her house and listen to the noise. Go  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  smell the smells.  COURT REPORTER: Hold on. I can't hear. I can't take everybody.  MR. FEBBO: Document that there is a  violation.  MS. WENZLER: Already done that before. We've been up this road. We've been down this road before.  We stood here last year in April, and we didn't have anybody in code enforcement at that time. Correct? And the Chief said, if we have to go up there and sit there every day and cite him, we're going to do that. We're gonna make sure that he's following the codes and ordinances here, because he hasn't been. Crickets.    105  Icall every time and nothing. You know what they say? All right. I guess, all right, I guess we have to go check it out. Sorry to wake you up.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: Who do you talk to? Please tell me because I'11 address it. MS. WENZLER: I don't know because  one guy -  COURT REPORTER: Hold on. Excuse me.  have to understand everybody. I can only take one person at a time.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ATTORNEY RINALDI: I know I said to Chris but not to you. If you don't see it, get the witness, file a complaint and go to the Magistrate. He makes the decision. MS. WENZLER: Every video that I've  sent :  COURT REPORTER: Is there five conversations that I'm not going to get? I don't know. I'm trying. I'm sorry. ATTORNEY RINALDI: If there's a complaint and you don't witness it, just get the person's name and address and subpoena them for the hearing and bring them down. You're going to say, I didn't see    106  it, but there's a witness who saw it. Then it's up to the Judge what he wants to do. But, you know, I also hear sometimes, well, they don't want to get involved. They don't want to go to the magistrate. So, I don't know. I'm only telling you what I hear, when I say this. So, if you want to go to the Magistrate, you're going to have to. Because, if he doesn't witness it, you have to go. There has to be a witness.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. WENZLER: Nobody the problem is, hasn't gotten even to that point where  he was cited.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Okay. I thought  there was a citation going out.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: The last citations I  filed, he was there with me.  MS. WENZLER: Never asked me to do anything because I have videos of him burning the stuff. I have the police officers. I wrote their names down at home who told me that. But it's continuing though. And that's the problem. Continuing.  It's a nuisance.    107  At what point are we going to stop it? We allowed him to come in to the Borough and operate for five and a half years a non-permitted business. And then we allowed him five and a half years to make  himself compliant.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Didn't allow him five and half years. We are on top of him in 2016 or '17, sending him notices of violation. Okay. And it took 20 hearings to get the ruling that we got because of the court's schedule. Okay?  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  And he has appellate rights that he is afforded. Anybody in this community has  appellate rights.  We say you're violating the zoning ordinance. You get 30 days to appeal the zoning hearing board. After the zoning hearing board, if you don't appeal, then we take you to magistrate.  After we take you to magistrate and fine you, you get to appeal to Common Pleas. Common Pleas, that starts the ball rolling again. That takes six months, a year to even get on the trial list.    108  On the trial list with them. We asked for an injunction from the get-go so we got on quicker with them.  So we 've been going to Court with him from day one. You know, then we got an order that says what he can and can't do. MS. WENZLER: Right. But my question is, why are we still allowing him to just. do what he has : like, why aren't we citing him? That's. why I'm here to ask. Why aren't we citing him for continuing violations? CHAIRMAN RINALDI: That's what we have to do. After this meeting is over, we're going to meet with the Chief and Chris and we're going to find out why it's not  10 11 12 13 14. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  being done.  Because we expected it being done months ago, and it's not. So, that's what we  have to find out.  As a council, we have to find out why it's not - why a phone call isn't making them go cite this person for  something.  MS. WENZLER: Listen, I'm not calling at 5:30 in the morning just because    109  I hear something. Like, really.  If you think that it's just because of little things, I call, all right, I can't  handlè this any more.  Ormy 3 and a half year old is screaming at 5:15 in the morning. That's  not right.  MR. HOOVER: I get up at 6, 6:30 and here we go again. I can just imagine what you guys are going through.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. WENZLER: Right outside my  bedroom window.  MR. HOOVER: We have to find out why  things are not being done.  MR. FEBBO: Russ said, three violations. Right? Nothing happens unless they write citations. Nuisance properties,  3.  MR. HOOVER: You can get three nuisances in a week up there. MS. WENZLER: Easily. MR. NOTARI: In a day. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: In a day. Get them in a day. Let me ask you a question. Bill, once it's three nuisances, what's the    110  procedure for closing him down?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: It's not a close him down. It's a violation. It's a  violation.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: He can get just nuisance after nuisance after nuisance, fine, after fine, after fine?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Fine away, yes. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: He can get one forever and just keep doing it?  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Yes, he's not a - you're confusing it with a rental property portion.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: No. I'm not confusing it at all. It's a business. MS. WENZLER: So you have nothing  that states :  ATTORNEY RINALDI: It's a thousand dollar. It's a summary offense.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: So if it's a continued nuisance, over and over and over, he can just keep. going and going and going? Pay the fine and keep going?  MS. WENZLER: Can that be changed?  Do you want people to :    111  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: That can't be  right.  MR. FEBBO: He'll just pay the fines. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yeah. I mean. MS. WENZLER: Right. MR. FEBBO: That's a consequence  after that.  MS. WENZLER: If that's not - do you. want businesses in your Borough that the - if you have a bar that's loud music and people fighting daily, outside of the bar and they're just paying fine after fine, it's allowed and it's okay. We're just going to pay the fines and keep on moving forward? As a Borough, we're not going to  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  do anything?  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: I don't agree with  that.  MS. WENZLER: I mean, that sounds a  little -  ATTORNEY RINALDI: There's no ordinance that gives us the ability to take somebody's property. That's condemnation. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: To shut it down, not take it. They can. keep their property.    112  Iwant it shut down.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Nothing in  condemnation.  MS. WENZLER: Remove their permit. ATTORNEY RINALDI: It's another type And that's nothing under our ordinances that says we can take your  of  property.  MR. NOTARI: How about 2910-A? CHAIRMAN RINALDI: 2910-A? MR. NOTARI: I'm sorry. 22910-A. My apologies. Code enforcement officer - CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Revoking of  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  license renewal?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: That's landlord tenants. We can say you're done. That's it. You can't rent your house out any more. MR. NOTARI: That's for a  business?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: No. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Okay, Bill, what's the procedure for us to make an ordinance that says we can do that?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Take somebody's  property?    113  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: No, no. Shut them  down.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: It's a zoning  violation.  MR. NOTARI: Remove their operating  permit.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Which only allowed to do certain things. If it's noise, we have an ordinance for noise. Okay? You can't shut somebody down for noise. We don't have an ordinance that says you can shut a business down for noise. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: So, how do we get an ordinance for that? That's what I'm  8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  saying.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: You bring the courts in and let them appeal it and bring the courts in and says what happens. They're not going put him out of business. They're going to stop him from doing what he has been doing or, you know, can come up with some other idea. They're not going to take his property.  MS. WENZLER: Nobody is asking to  take it. Take the permit.    114  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Not asking ATTORNEY RINALDI: Not going to kill his business. They're going to make his business conform to the law, not say,  you're closed.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: If he continues MR. HOOVER: Shut down Bracci's down. ATTORNEY RINALDI: Bracci's is under LCB statute. That's nuisance statute. That's PA LCB and Liquor Control Board. That's a whole different. He's not a bar. They can stop him from operating a bar because they control who serves alcohol. MS. WENZLER: So I can have a business at my house in Old Forge, and I can get noise complaint, after noise complaint, after noise complaint and pay the thousand dollar fine, pay a thousand dollar fine, and nuisance property, nuisance property and I can continue to operate as a dysfunctional business in the Borough and violate all your codes for noise and nuisance and nothing can ever be done about it, except you guys get cash in your pocket for the complaint? CHAIRMAN RINALDI: If that's the  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25    115  case, I don't agree with that.  MS. WENZLER: Sounds like a really  nice business.  MR. NOTARI: That seems to be what  I'm hearing.  MS. WENZLER: Right. That's a nice  business, actually.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Bill, if currently, we can't do that with our current  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ordinance -  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Listen, he's a  polluter. DEP fined him.  MS. WENZLER: I get that. I know  that. We walked down there.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: They can't shut him down. Okay? They have a fine and a lien on his property for the 65 or $68,000.00. That's the State of Pennsylvania.  MS. WENZLER: What can we do as a  borough? What can we do?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: We're doing everything we can and we're going to continue to do everything.  MR. NOTARI: That's not true.    116  MS. WENZLER: Shouldn't you have something in there that can shut down - take permits away from businesses that aren't following your codes in your Borough? Why don't you? Why wouldn't you have that? Who would want to have a business in their  Borough that -  ATTORNEY RINALDI: State law doesn't give you they only give you, the Borough, so much - the Borough can't make  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  up laws.  MS. WENZLER: Take the permit away. ATTORNEY RINALDI: They can only enact laws that the State allows you to enact. So we have enacted zoning laws, nuisance laws, et cetera. They give you the power to fine by ordinance, up to a maximum penalty or 90 days in jail.  All right. File those. You go down to the magistrate and enforce them. The penalty isn't shut a business down. It's fine or incarceration.  MS. WENZLER: I didn't say shut down. I'm saying taking the permits away to allow to operate. They can take their business    117  elsewhere.  MR. FEBBO: Does he have a permit? MS. WENZLER: Permit to operate : COURT REPORTER: I didn't hear what you said, Mr. Febbo. What did you say? MR. FEBBO: Does he have a permit? ATTORNEY RINALDI: He met all the requirements but for the H.0.P., highway  occupancy permit.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. NOTARI: So he's operating  illegally.  MS. WENZLER: Right. So, that's  what I'm saying.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: He's put up fencing. Everything on the ordinance. He had to put up a fence to separate him from the residential neighbors.  Had to put in screening. He put that in. Okay. I mean, everything we kicked off on the ordinance he did, with the exception of clean up the piles, which the Judge gave him more time on. And we complained about it.  MR. NOTARI: I don't know. ATTORNEY RINALDI: It doesn't mean    118  that it stops there. I mean, it keeps  going.  MS. WENZLER: It has though. ATTORNEY RINALDI: Got to remember, you're in a residential neighborhood and you're backed up right' against a C-2 neighborhood. That can never change.  MS. WENZLER: Listen, I'm not saying  anything about that.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ATTORNEY RINALDI: There's always gonna be : so the noise, yes, that's an issue. That can be fined and taken care of  by the police.  If the zoning officer is not on duty, the police officers have the ability to write out tickets for any ordinance, not zoning, but ordinance violations. That's an  ordinance.  MS. WENZLER: The police can do  that?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: They have the authority to enforce our Borough code. MS. WENZLER: I was told they cannot on the phone. Every time I call, they say, there's nothing we can do. It's not    119  criminal. There's nothing we can do but maybe call the code enforcement. I was just  told that last week.  MR. NOTARI: Untrue.  CHIEF DUBERNAS: That's very untrue, because I cited for the ordinance.  MS. WENZLER: That's funny because I  COURT REPORTER: That's untrue  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  because -  MR. NOTARI: That's not funny. Not  funny at all.  MS. WENZLER: That's what I'm told. MR. NOTARI: And I believe you. Not  funny at all.  MS. WENZLER: On June 2nd, I called  MR. NOTARI: Our own police force do not know what they can and cannot do in our  borough.  MS. WENZLER: He said, if it's not criminal, nothing we can do. On June 2nd, the Officer that took my call, said there's nothing we can do. It's not criminal. We can go up there and tell him to stop. But, at    120  this point, I mean, I can get in touch with code enforcement. I mean, he's probably not  even up right now.  MS. AVVISATO: That was early in the  morning?  MS. WENZLER: I was told COURT REPORTER: I didn't hear. MR. FEBBO: In violation. The police are supposed to be a backup for the zoning. Am I correct in that? Was I not told that a couple weeks ago? The police are the backup  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  for coding?  MR. NOTARI: That's my understanding. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: I believe so. MS. WENZLER: Called three times and  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Bill, what are  you looking for?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Looking for an  answer to your question.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Which one? ATTORNEY RINALDI: What the penalty  is.  MR. HOOVER: Nothing under permits. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: So, again, if we    121  don't have one, why can't we enact one? ATTORNEY RINALDI: We can enact up toa thousand dollars fine and summary offense, which is 90 days in jail. That we can do. Should be in there. And that's it. So, put the guy in jail. If you get a magistrate that wants to put him in jail, can put him in jail for 90 days.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: My question again  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  is--  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Nine times out of ten, then fine them, court costs. And if they appeal it, sometimes the County Judge gets ticked off and we had one situation where they did put a guy in jail.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: But why can't we stop him after a certain number of  nuisances?  MS. WENZLER: Or any of the property  owners?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: You can, but you can't shut down a. business. You can just take him to Court and fine him.  MR. FEBBO: Here's what will happen. You cite him, right, and fine him. He'll    122  gladly go before the Magistrate and pay the thousand. dollar fine, and sells a piece of machinery for $10,000.00. Money is no  object to him.  MS. WENZLER: I know. No object. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: So, why can't we put an ordinance in place, not for him, just for the Borough of Old Forge, for anybody, after a certain number of nuisances, we shut you down? We don't take your property. We just shut you down and you cannot operate no more. Or there's steps where they have to go  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  through to -  ATTORNEY RINALDI: I'11 try to find  out if it's doable.  MR. HOOVER: To get the permit back. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Right. They have to go through the process to get their  permit back.  MS. WILK: Mr. Rinaldi, do you have  that in your ordinance?  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: I cannot find it,  Joan.  MS. WILK: Sit down and start putting your ordinance up to date.    123  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: I agree. I agree. I would like to put one in there that states that. Not just for this incident, for the  whole Borough.  MS. WILK: Absolutely. What I'm saying is that, unless you have it in writing in your ordinance, you hands are tied. You can't do shit.  8  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: I agree. I've been looking, trying to answer her questions, ask other questions. And I can't seem to find it, unless I'm looking in the wrong spot. I can't seem to find it. If it's not in there, I would agree that we put  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  it in there.  MS. WILK: Absolutely. MS. WENZLER: Need to start him  getting cited.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Oh, absolutely. MS. WENZLER: We need to start there and make sure that it's getting cited. Like, we're following through. The ball can't  roll if it's flat.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Absolutely. MR. HOOVER: That's where we have to    124  start. Talk about it tonight.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Penalty is under 229. It's $300.00 fine, 30 days in jail. MR. HOOVER: 229 what? ATTORNEY RINALDI: 229.21-D. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: 229.21-D. ATTORNEY RINALDI: 229.21-D. Any person violates any of the provisions of this chapter shall be guilty of summary offense. For every such offense, shall, upon conviction, be sentenced to pay a minimum fine of $300.00, maximum fine as allowed by law, along with all costs of prosecution. Payment of fine, costs, imprisonment for not more than 30 days prior to each day, which the violation shall exist or continue to exist, after certified warning certified warning was issued - COURT REPORTER: Can you, Bill? ATTORNEY RINALDI: Don't worry. I'11  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  give it to you.  COURT REPORTER: Thank you. ATTORNEY RINALDI: Shall continue as  a separate offense.  MS. WENZLER: Repeat offenses.    125  ATTORNEY RINALDI: That's the  landlord.  MS. WENZLER: So you have something for landlords but don't have something for  businesses?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: It is. I just  read it to you.  MS. WENZLER: I'm saying. Maybe reflect the same thing. If landlords have a property or there's people that live in a house and are causing nuisance and noise, they are allowed - they can have their rental unit or whatever, their : MR. NOTARI: Correct. MS. WENZLER: - revoked, but a  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  business owner can't.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: That's already in  there.  MS. WENZLER: That's what I'm saying. So, I think there should be something reflective that, if you own a business, you also have to comply with the codes and there is a higher than here, just take a thousand dollars or 300, I'11 spend some time in jail. Here's money. It'sa    126  money machine then. Jeepers, can make a lot of money off of him, actually.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Certain number  for businesses as well.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: The landlord one just says, you lose it until you get reinspected and put the proper things in that you're supposed to have, like a fire extinguisher or wiring fixed.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  It's not that you're never going to be able to use that property again as a  rental property.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: No. But the landlord one also states that that person, after the third time, the landlord will be fined if they don't remove that person. So they remove that person, go through the process and put somebody new  in.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: No, no. They're fined. They can't have a tenant until they  correct the problem.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Exactly. But that  tenant has to leave.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Oh yeah.    127  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Right. That's : ATTORNEY RINALDI: But you're not doing a business that has to leave. It's  not same thing.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: No. It's just a business that we could shut down until they go through the process of getting themselves  reinstated, reopened.  But then, even after that, they can just continue to do that. I want to put something the book that says : MR. FEBBO: Closure. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Right. After a certain amount of time, you can't.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. NOTARI: Let me throw this out there. Should we have a requirement of businesses for an occupancy permit?  If we have that, why can't we revoke  his occupancy permit?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Because an occupancy permit is given to meet the zoning  and planning ordinance.  MR. NOTARI: Which he doesn't meet. ATTORNEY RINALDI: Not the nuisance ordinance. Nuisance ordinance is something    128  different than zoning and planning. MR. NOTARI: Okay. ATTORNEY RINALDI: Okay. MR. NOTARI: Can we make that part of the penalty? You lose your permit to  work?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Haven't seen it anywhere. But we can try to see what we can  do.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. NOTARI: There has to be some kind of recourse, as Chairman Rinaldi  states.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Can try to come up with some recourse. But it's not in there now. Not in your code. But you can't just take a business from a citizen. It's  not that easy.  MR. NOTARI: I understand that. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: We don't want to take his business. I don't want to take his  or anyone's business.  MR. NOTARI: However, if he's not following the rules of our Borough, why should he be allowed to operate in the  Borough?    129  ATTORNEY RINALDI: That's what the citations, that's what the ordinance is  there for.  Like I said, he's not operating the property under the standards of the State law and DEP. They shut him down? No, they can't shut him down. They can only fine him, which they did. And the fine sits there as a lien on the property because he  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  hasn't paid it.  MR. NOTARI: DEP doesn't live on Amity Avenue. Doesn't have to live in Old Forge like the seven of us that sit up here or the people in the audience.  That's the other thing. He doesn't have an H.O.P. Who is supposed to enforce  that, PennDOT?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: We got to go after him for that. PennDOT won't enforce it. I was on the phone with them Monday,  actually.  MR. NOTARI: To me, I don't know, there's a reason right there he shouldn't be operating. He doesn't have an H.O.P. ATTORNEY RINALDI: Beyond that,    130  we've been working on that. MR. NOTARI: Okay.  MR. FEBBO: He does not have a right  to access to his property.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: State will not - let's put it this way. They have never done it. They won't shut a business down for not  having an H.0.P.  MR. HOOVER: No. But when you build anew building on Route 6 in Mayfield and you don't follow the rules of PennDOT, they give you a permit to get in the building. ATTORNEY RINALDI: Right. Well, no, no. Right. But they don't shut the business down, which is amazing, which is the conversation I had.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  So, they said, it's up to you guys  to do something.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Of course. ATTORNEY RINALDI: Right. And I had to go all the way to Harrisburg to get that  answer.  COURT REPORTER: Your name. MR. STALL: Bill Stall. What's the operating for a business hours in the    131  Borough? What time do they start and what time do they have to close? MR. HOOVER: 7 to 8. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: 7 to 8. MS. WENZLER: 7 to 6. COURT REPORTER: What is it? Wait a  second. I can't hear anybody.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: If everybody would be quiet one second and one person talk. I don't know if I have the right answer. But I'm going to talk first, and I'm going to  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21  let Bill answer.  There's not hours of operation within the Borough. But there's codes and ordinances as far as noise.  MR. STALL: What are the hours? CHAIRMAN RINALDI: During the week, Bill, 7 a.m. until - 7 to 11 or 7 to 10. ATTORNEY RINALDI: 7 to 8, 7 to 8. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: 7 to 8. ATTORNEY RINALDI: Some business  22 that have specific hours, carnivals, things like that.  23 24 25  MS. WENZLER: On Sundays, it's 10 to  6.  ATTORNEY RINALDI: No general, if    132  you're a business, you have to close your doors. There's no specific hours of general business that you can be open.  MR. STALL: I'm assuming, right off the get-go, he's in violation as of : MS. WENZLER: 5:30.  MR. STALL: As of 5:30. So he should be able to get fined all the way to 7:00, if  he's there on site.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ATTORNEY RINALDI: 5:30, yes, that's construction, moving construction equipment around, yeah.  MS. WENZLER: When I spoke to the police officer, I said : I said, so, you're going to go there now. It's now 6:15 on June 2nd, because he called me back because Iactually have to call them, because they never even went there at that point.  So, 6:15, I said, you need to tell me that you're going to stop him and he'll start. up in 45 minutes? He said probably. So, that's all they did.  We'll go talk to him. And they just go up there and tell him stop doing what  you're doing.    133  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: But they could  you have cited him.  MR. NOTARI: Should have cited him. MS. WENZLER: Right. Sundays, 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. And I thought there was something on there holidays and holiday weekends. And it was Memorial Weekend, Saturday morning, I called, because it was like 8:15 in the morning and it was loud. And it started at 7:15, actually.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: What one are you  looking at?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Looking for the noise one, daytime exceptions. Any noise COURT REPORTER: I can't hear. ATTORNEY RINALDI: Between the hours of7 and 8 daily, construction. Sundays and holidays. Daytime exceptions are between the hours of 7 a.m. and 8 p.m. Sunday and holidays, when the exemption shall apply between 10 a.m. and 6 p.m.  MR. STALL: Just for construction  or?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: That's for noise, above certain levels.    134  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: So, getting back to my question. I think everybody else's as  well.  Could we put something in our code book to help us better protect the Borough with businesses like this, as far as a three-citation violation, you're shut down for a certain amount of time?  After that, you're shut down again. After that, I mean, you just shut down, pay, shut down, pay, shut down, pay and keep reopening; correct?  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  ATTORNEY RINALDI: I guess,  technically, yeah.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: How do we stop that? We have to put something on the  books?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Well, whatever we can legally pass as a Borough.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Let's look in to it so we can find something the most strictest manner possible.  MR. STALL: Is there a limitation on  fines, on how high you can go?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Yes, a thousand    135  dollars.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: According to  State, there is.  MR. STALL: Doesn't matter how many offenses he has. Just the top is a thousand dollars. So we can't do it in increments, first offense is 500, second is -  ATTORNEY RINALDI: If you want to make it below a thousand, you can say 200; 500 and a thousand dollars. You can't go thousand to 2000. Thousand is the tops. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Bill, let's look in to that as soon as possible, please. MR. FEBBO: Could he be cited more  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  than once in a day?  ATTORNEY RINALDI: Sure. MR. HOOVER: Sure. If it's different time and different - it should be, because you go over and cite him, you leave, crank it up again. Again, we fine him 500. Pay the 500. Back to business. We have to get  the first one.  MS. WENZLER: Right. MR. HOOVER: Danielle, thank you. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Anything else?    136  MS. WENZLER: Nope. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Thank you. Jeff  Beelman.  MR. FEBBO: All I can say is, we feel  your pain.  MS. WENZLER: Thank you. I  appreciate it.  MR. FEBBO: We have no teeth with  that man.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Jeff Beelman. MR. BEELMAN: I'm here for the same topic. I'm going to defer any statements. She spoke on my behalf.  MR. HOOVER: Thanks, Jeff. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Thanks, Jeff.  Pamela Evans.  MS. EVANS: I live on West Morton Street, I am the one who initiated the paper alley issue that we have. And I'm working on  that with a surveyor.  But there are other issues that I have. The ordinance violations, which I did e-mail Chris Hart and the surrounding neighbors, e-mailed him as well. I don't see any changes made since we made the :    137  okay. I only have one of these. If you'll  look through them.  These are the photos of the deplorable condition that this property is  in. Okay.  So, this gentleman, Thomas Chickey, purchased this property, the first property that is on West Morton Street, he purchased  in 2016. Okay.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  He started parking tractor and trailers and trailers with debris on them in this : in the alley, well, a private drive. So, my uncle went to the Borough building back in 2016, when it was a different zoning officer. And the zoning officer said, oh, that's Thomas Chickey, he  does that.  So, my uncle, of course, just let it go. So, letting it go, years later, come to find out, he purchases the old Preate  Winery.  So, if you look through these photos, you will see some of the pictures, which, initiated this whole mess.  He started dumping huge mounds of    138  concrete in which is a paper alley, an easement, whatever it may, it's a civil suit now. We're waiting on the surveyors. Okay. So, when he's doing this, it's a safety issue on my end. So, behind my fence, it's not a flat piece of property. It's a sloped hill. So he goes back there, over his wall, which is the remaining structure of the old Preate Winery. And he just dumps them over top of the wall, going down, some of them, in to my fence but it's a civil suit, so I have to take care of  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  that.  So, when I call the police, they said it wasn't their issue. Chris Hart was informed of it. He saw the mounds of concrete. You can't dump mounds of concrete like that on a hill and think they're going to stay there and then throw dirt on top of it and throw seed and straw.  So I'm waiting for the water to wash away and go through the fence. And we have gazebo directly behind the fence. So, in the event that something happens, the safety issue is my utmost important thing with    139  that.  The debris, tractor-trallers, he has many old empty trailers storage or whatever he does with them. Debris, if yoy look there, there's mounds, I. don't even know  what it is.  MR. HOOVER: I don't have any  pictures.  MS. EVANS: Only one set of photos. But when you look through those, so. MR. HOOVER: What's your address? MS. EVANS: 132 West Morton Street. MR. NOTARI: I have the map up. I  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  just wanted it.  MS. EVANS: I live on the rear of what used to be the old Preate Winery. Scrinato's old homestead.  So, I lived there since 1995 and have never had an issue until this gentleman  moved in.  When you speak to this gentleman, he will go tell Chris that it's okay, he told my uncle what he was doing and my uncle was  okay with it.  And went and told Chris that he    140  talked to me. He never spoke to me. The only time I spoke to him is when the police officer was standing there and. I told them it was a safety issue and I was concerned about those huge mounds of concrete, you know, sliding and going through my property and ending up in my yard, on my dog, my children, myself and whomever it may be. So, the safety issue, no one can do anything about. But the Zoning issues can  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  be enforced.  Now, I sent an e-mail on the 22nd. My uncle sent one on the 26th and the Santioni's also sent one on the 31st. And everything is still the same.  So, when he's informed, which you notified me two weeks ago tomorrow, I spoke to you two weeks ago, tomorrow it will be two weeks. It was a Wednesday the 8th. And you told me that he was informed. So, when you're informed, you have ten days. Am I correct with that? MR. HART: Correct. MS. EVANS: So, nothing has changed. So this is why I'm here. I want to know what    141  is happening and why I feel like : and I know there are other issues in the Borough.  know that my issue is not the only issue. But the 22nd, we're going on a month. It's well over 10 days. So, and now we have three families, and other families who also would want to be involved in it, but don't feel like it's worth their time to come here because they don't feel they're going to get anywhere with it.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  And I'm like, really? Put your name out there. But maybe they've had issues. However, whatever it may be, I want to know what's happening with it and what will be  happening.  Like, you see the photos. Would you  want that in your back yard?  MS. AVVISATO: No, not at all. Are  they tires as well?  MS. EVANS: Tires. There's big 50-gallon jugs. I don't know what's in them. But, really, this is what we - what I live  behind now.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Where we at,  Chris?    142  MR. HART: He's been cited under the  Property Maintenance Code.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: He's been cited? MR. HART: Oh, yeah. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: How many times? MR. HART: Absolutely. Three letters and it's going to the Magistrate now. On his  final notice.  Ifollowed exactly the way it's supposed to be by the book. He's on his final notice right now and it has been a month. He's on the final notice and will go  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  to the Magistrate.  MS. EVANS: Then what happens? MR. HART: Up to the Magistrate.  Like we said before -  MS. EVANS: When they go to the Magistrate, do we go to the Magistrate as  well or is -  MR. HART: I told you I would notify you. Absolutely, if you want to go, I told you I would let you know.  MS. EVANS: I would absolutely like  to go.  MR. HART: As soon as it gets to    143  that point and I get something back on it,  I'11 let you know.  MS. EVANS: When you served him, he said nothing back. Just didn't act on  anything?  MR. HART: No. The Magistrate will send it out. I file the citation with the Magistrate's office. The Magistrate's  office will.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. EVANS: He was never informed yet? Is that what you're telling me? MR. HART: No. He's had a final  notice.  MS. EVANS: So he received notification by mail? MR. HART: Yes.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: He received three  notices in the past 20 days?  MR. HART: He received the warning. He received the final notice. Yes.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: But he received three notices in the past 20 days?  MR. HART: Yes, In the past month.  Yes.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Can only be 20    144  days. It's 10 days after.  MR. HART: Whatever. This started  back in May.  MS. EVANS: May 22nd was the first. May 22nd is when I sent you -- you said you needed it emailed. You need it in writing. I  put it in writing.  MR. HART: When I spoke to you that  day, it was already done.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. EVANS: We're waiting on the  Magistrate.  MR. HART: That's it. MS. EVANS: When the Magistrate is going to have a hearing, you'll be informed  of it?  MR. HART: Iwill let you know. MS. EVANS: Okay. In, like, in a timely manner so I can adjust my schedule. MR. HART: Absolutely, yeah. It won't be : I mean, once I get the notice, we're usually a couple weeks.  MS. EVANS: So, now, generally, when you do this with the Magistrate, do we have like a protocol of what normally happens? MR. HART: I've only had a few on    145  the county level.  MS. EVANS: Because I know that he - COURT REPORTER: One at a time. MS. EVANS: Like, I know that this isn't his first rodeo. I know he has many properties of people who live up here who have been complaining with the properties he  owns.  MR. HART: I agree with you. He's been there for 15 years and nothing has been  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  done about it.  MS. EVANS: Correct. Because people would go and complain and nothing would happen, so then they just lay down. And I'm  not going to lay down.  I've lived there since '95. I've raised my children there, and I retired and I'm going to stay there.  I'm not going to let this guy come in and throw his shit all over, and I'm going to have to deal with it. That's not  going to happen.  MR. HART: The day you came in to my office, when you informed me about the situation, that is the day I started with    146  it.  And I've gone through every single step, the way it states. And it will now go  to the Magistrate.  So, I mean, there's not much more I can do. There's not much I can do about what  happened in the past.  MS. AVVISATO: Chris, if she goes to  the Magistrate :  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. HART. She can go and kind of persuade. I've had people down there, you know, with one or two.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Go and be a  witness.  MR. HART: Yeah, absolutely. You know, the other ones that I dealt with currently were all ones from the past that stretched on for year after year after year that were on the county level.  If you look at those properties now, those properties that went on, they're spotless right now. Take you to every single one of them that I finished off. MS. EVANS: In Old Forge? MR. HART: Yes.    147  MS. EVANS: Okay.  MR. HART: But Tommy Chickey was never : nobody ever took him anywhere. Nobody did a single thing.  MS. EVANS: For whatever reason, he always was let go. Always. And most of the  people told me that.  They have homes that they live near him up here in whatever they call this off of Austin Héights. But how does he get away  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  with this?  MS. AVVISATO: It's been like that a  long time.  MS. EVANS: That's sad. But you come here. You pay your taxes. You don't bother anyone. You raise your children and you have someone like that, a slumlord come in and just throw shit all over.  Like, I've had it. I'm not going to tolerate it. And I'm going to do whatever I  have to do.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: This is the old  Preate Winery property?  MS. EVANS: Correct. And the other issue, so, the wall, the base of the old    148  property is deplorable and it's falling, which is also a hazard.  So, when he dumped the dirt and the fill, he did that because the wall was falling. That's not a way that you hold up  a wall.  So he put those big pieces of concrete and dirt, like, he probably went, like, 10 feet in height to fill this, so that wall doesn't fall.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  And he has things laying against on the other side. So, when it does collapse, if someone is around there, someone could be hurt or killed. So, that is a hazard. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: This is your  property, your gazebo? MS. EVANS: Correct. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: That's the hill  you're talking about?  MS. EVANS: Yes. So he filled in the first layer was wood, put wood and then he put concrete. Then he put dirt. So what happens to wood after several years? It rots and then gonna shift and all going to come through my fence. And hopefully no one    149  is out there.  MR. NOTARI: Does he own the entire  property?  MS. EVANS: Yes. He owns the property on 100 West Morton Street. MR. NOTARI: If I'm going up Milwaukee Avenue from Main Street.  MS. EVANS: Correct. When you go up to Milwaukee Avenue on that right, he owns. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Has he been cited  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  for high grass?  MR. HART: On the wall? It's property maintenance? It's all in there. Covers everything. Just be the maximum. I think the maximum is a thousand dollars and  30 days incarceration.  MR. NOTARI: See cars with no license  plates.  MS. EVANS: There's more. MR. NOTARI: Has the registration officer been up to check out if these cars were registered and insured?  MR. HART: It's not private property. It's commercial.  MR. NOTARI: It's residential    150  property, isn't it? MS. EVANS: Yes.  MR. HART: Part of it is commercial. MS. EVANS: Where that vehicle is, it's residential. So, there's three plots. The initial one on 100 West Morton Street, that is a private drive. That is  residential.  The home where he lives, that is residential. And then the Preate Winery is on a separate deed because I went to the courthouse and did all this.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. HOOVER: Lives in one of the  three houses?  MS. EVANS: Correct. When you're looking up from Main Street, he lives in the  one to the left.  MR. NOTARI: Basically a junkyard. MR. HOOVER: Yeah, basically, it is. MR. HART: Pretty much. MS. WILK: Mr. Notari, go to 532  Winter Street.  COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. I didn't  hear that. I can't :  MR. NOTARI: I think Mr. Stocki owns    151  that.  MS. WILK: No, he doesn't. MR. HART: That's the Lamp Shade  Factory you're thinking of. MS. WILK: Mini junkyard. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Who owns that  property?  MR. HART: I don't have his name. MS. WILK: 536. MR. NOTARI: I'11 look it up. MS. WILK: Right next door to Chris  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Balanovich.  MR. NOTARI: Chief, would you send up Officer Kimble tomorrow to check out these cars on this property to make sure they're in compliance with the Borough laws?  CHIEF DUBERNAS: On the property or  on the road?  MR. NOTARI: They're on the property. CHIEF DUBERNAS: I'11 have Dave run  the registrations.  MS. HART: That would all be covered  under property maintenance.  MR. HOOVER: Tractor-trailers up  there too?    152  MS. EVANS: Lots of them. MS. AVVISATO: Unbelievable. MS. EVANS: That aren't used, that are not licensed. There's no tags on them. They're not legal. He uses them for  storage.  MS. WENZLER: That is what happens when you let people get away with things. You let one little thing go.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. EVANS: He's been doing this for  a long time.  MS. AVVISATO: He's been doing this since I've involved in politics over ten years. He's been doing this stuff back then. MS. EVANS: Bad for the people who don't want to live next to him like that. No one wants a junkyard next to them. You're worried about smaller kids climbing up there. The wall collapsing,  like.  MS. AVVISATO: Getting killed. MS. EVANS: They can go up there. Now it's more inviting because he has the dirt going to the top of the wall, which is deplorable and falling apart.    153  So, if  does get killed  there, doesn't matter how much you fine him. Someone's life is priceless.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Chris, the status  is, cited three times?  MR. HART: He has a final notice. And the citations will be : it's filed. Already written up down there. Filed with the Magistrate, correct.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: So waiting for a  hearing date?  MR. HART: That's it. MS. EVANS: Do you know how long that  normally takes?  MR. HOOVER: Week or two. MS. EVANS: Not like September. MR. HART: Shouldn't be. I'11 be honest, some of them that I've dealt with when I came in to this job, they were going  on for 3 to 4 years.  MS. EVANS: Yeah. But I want to be  persistent.  MR. HART: Tell you right now, I mean : trust me. I appreciate that. And it will speed the process up if you come.    154  MS. EVANS: If I call the Magistrate,  do whatever, I will do that.  MR. HART: That will be great. I told you, come down with me, when I have the hearing, because it might help. And it might, you know, persuade to go a certain direction. Like I said :  MS. EVANS: I'm gonna go. MR. NOTARI: I'm not going to lie to  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  you. Nothing is done quickly.  MS. EVANS: No, no. At least make it look like you're starting something. MR. NOTARI: We are starting  something.  MS. EVANS: No, not you. I mean him, he gets a violation. So at least pretend that you care about your neighbor.  MR. NOTARI: Can't give you a date  where anything will happen.  MS. EVANS: Right. I understand  that.  MR. NOTARI: I wasn't on council. But we had Rosemont issue for about 10 years. We've had the Stocki issue now for five and a half years.    155  MS. EVANS: I'm hoping this is not  one of those issues.  MR. NOTARI: Hoping so too. MS. EVANS: I just want him to clean it up. That's it. No one wants to live next to that. If I wanted to live next to a junkyard, I would have moved next to a  junkyard.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Chris, as of right now, nothing on that property he could  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  be cited and fined for?  MR. HART: He is. That's what I just  said.  MS. EVANS: No. But he means, can you break it down and do like the cars? Go down and do those little things one at a  time.,  MR. HART: This is my whole point behind the ticketing system, which I'm waiting for tonight.  MR. HOOVER: It will be approved tonight and we can use that.  MR. HART: Otherwise no. All falls under that one thousand dollar fine.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: They'11 be a lot    156  more things throughout the Borough to do. That's on the agenda tonight.  MS. EVANS: Okay. Thank you. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Anything else? MS. EVANS: Nope. Thank you  kindly.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Thanks, Dear. Appreciate it. Before we go down the table, anyone else from the audience like to speak before we go in to new business?  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Before we go down the table, go to new business. First item under new business isa resolution for pave cut fees and fines. At this time, the Chair will entertain a motion to adopt the resolution of the Borough of Old Forge, Lackawanna County, Pennsylvania, establishing fees and fines under Section 299, Article 4, entitled pave cut ordinance, Sections 229-26 and 229-66 of the Old Forge Borough Code. MR. HOOVER: I'd like to make that  motion.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Motion on the  floor by Councilman Hoover.  MR. BUTLER: I'11 second.    157  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Second by Councilman Butler, on the question. Public input. Roll call, please.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Avvisato.  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler. MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: I didn't get the message, so I'11 abstain tonight.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover. MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari. MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. New business. Second item under new business is a resolution, landlord license, administrative  fee.  At this time, Chair would entertain a motion to adopt the resolution of the Borough of Old Forge, Lackawanna County, Pennsylvania, for establishing fees under Chapter 229, entitled Old Forge Borough    158  neighbor reservations and nuisance abatement ordinance of the Borough of Old Forge Code. MR. NOTARI: Make that motion, Mr.  Chairman.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Motion on the  floor by Councilman Notari.  MS. AVVISATO: Second that motion. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Second by Councilwoman Avvisato, on the question. Public input. Roll call, please. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Avvisato.  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler. MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover. MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari. MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. Third item under new business is an ordinance amending Chapter 328, vehicles in    159  traffic.  At this time, the Chair will entertain a motion to adopt an ordinance of the Borough of Old Forge, Lackawanna County, Pennsylvania, amending Chapter 328, vehicles and traffic, article 3 parking regulations 328-25 violations and penalties within the  Borough of Old Forge.  MR. HOOVER: Make that motion. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Motion on the  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  floor by Councilman Hoover.  MS. AVVISATO: I'11 second that  motion.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Second by Councilwoman Avvisato, on the question. Public input. Roll call, please. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Avvisato.  MS. AVVISATO: Yes. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Butler.  MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover.    160  MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari. MR. NOTARI: Yes. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Rinaldi.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. Fourth item is an ordinance adopting the quality of life and violations ticketing process. At this time, the Chair would entertain a motion to adopt an ordinance. MS. AVVISATO: I'11 make that motion. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: I have to read it first. At this time, the Chairman would entertain a motion to adopt an ordinance, adopting the quality of life in violations ticketing process in the Borough of Old Forge, in order to prohibit and remove nuisances, to regulate as may be necessary for the health and safety, general welfare and cleanliness and beauty, convenience, comfort and the safety for the residents of the Borough of Old Forge.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. FEBBO: I'11 make that motion. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Motion on the floor by Councilman Febbo. Second by    161  Councilman Avvisato, on the question. Public comment. Roll call, please.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Avvisato.  MS. AVVISATO: Yes. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Butler.  MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: Yes.  10  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover. MR. HOOVER: Yes.  12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari. MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. The fifth item under new business is a motion to advertise for the position within the Borough of Old Forge an additional part-time zoning code enforcement  officer.  MR. BUTLER: Make the motion. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Motion on the  floor by Councilman Butler.  MR. FEBBO: Second the motion.    162  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Second by Councilman Febbo, on the question. Public input. Roll call, please.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato.  MS. AVVISATO: Yes. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Butler.  MR. BUTLER: Yes. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: Yes.  10  12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover. MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari. MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. Item number 6 is a motion to hire a cleaning company for the municipal building. MR. NOTARI: Mr. Chairman, I'11 make  a notion to hire Janpro.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Motion on the  floor by Councilman Notari.  MR. BUTLER: I'11 second. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Seconded by    163  Councilman Butler, on the question. Mary,  the price is?  MS. BARTOLETTI: 925. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: 925 per month. MS. BARTOLETTI: Per month. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: 6-month contract? MS. BARTOLETTI: 6 months. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Thank you. On the question. Public input. Roll call, please. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Avvisato.  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler. MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover. MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari. MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. Next item, this is just a motion to add to the agenda. This is a motion to add item number 8 to the agenda to appoint one    164  alternate person to the planning commission. This is just to add this to the agenda. MR. HOOVER: Make a motion to add  Dave Fife.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Just to add to agenda. Motion on the floor by Councilman  Hoovér.  MR. NOTARI: Second. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Second by Councilman Notari, on the question. Public input. Roll call, please.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato.  MS. AVVISATO: Yes. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Butler.  MR. BUTLER: Yes. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: Yes. MS. MR. HOOVER: Yes.  Councilman Hoover.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari. MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes.    165  Next item under new business is a motion to appoint one member as the alternate to the Planning Commission. MR. HOOVER: Make a motion to add  Dave Fife.  MR. NOTARI: Second. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Motion on the floor to add Dave Five as one alternate Planning Commission member by Councilman Hoover, seconded by Councilman Notari, on the question. Public input. Roll call,  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  please.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato.  MS. AVVISATO: Yes. MS. Butler.  Councilman  MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover. MR. HOOVER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari. MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi.    166  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. Next item this is again just to add this to the agenda. Motion to add Mr. Kania's appeal at 540 West Grace Street on the corner of Grace and Melmore, Chief,  correct?  CHIEF DUBERNAS: Yes. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: For a handicapped parking sign. This is just to add it to the  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  agenda.  MR. NOTARI: Make a motion to add it  to the agenda.  MR. HOOVER: Wants to put it on what  street?  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Melmore. Melmore  goes left.  MR. HOOVER: I'm good. I'm good. I  know where it's at.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Motion on the floor by Councilman Notari to add it to the  agenda.  MS. AVVISATO: Second that motion CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Second by Councilwoman Avvisato, on the question. Public input. Roll call, please.    167  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato.  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler. MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover. MR. HOOVER: Yes.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari. MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. Next item is a motion to approve a handicapped sign at the address of Robert Kania, 540, on the corner of West Grace and  Melmore Street.  MS. AVVISATO: Make that motion, Mr.  Chairman.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Motion on the floor by Councilwoman Avvisato. MR. BUTLER: Second. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Second by Councilman Butler, on the question. Public input. Roll call; please.    168  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato.  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler. MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo. MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover. MR. HOOVER: Yes. MS. MR. NOTARI: Yes.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Councilman Notari.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Yes. No more items under new business, unless anyone has any. Go down the table, see if anybody has anything, before we adjourn. Mayor Legg.  MAYOR LEGG: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have nothing.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: You're welcome.  Councilman Febbo.  MR. FEBBO: Nope. I'm out of gas. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Councilman  Notari.  MR. NOTARI: Nothing.    169  RINALDI: Councilman Butler.  MR. BUTLER: Nothing. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Councilwoman  Avvisato.  MS. AVVISATO: I'm good, Mr.  Chairman. Thank you.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Councilman  Hoover.  MR. HOOVER: I'm good. Thank you for  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  the pave cut ordinance.  CHAIRMAN RINALDI: The only thing that I have is to address the public. Council had an executive session last Tuesday regarding a personnel and litigation  matter.  We also had an executive session this evening, before our meeting, for another personnel litigation matter. And we're going to adjourn in to one right now. With that said, the Chair would make a motion to adjourn the meeting.  MR. NOTARI: Make that motion. CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Motion on the floor motion for Councilman Notari. All in  favor.    170  (Chorus of ayes.) CHAIRMAN RINALDI: Good night,  everybody.  (Whereupon, at 9:19 p.m, the hearing  was concluded.)  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25    171  CERTIFICAIE  I hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence are contained fully and accurately in the notes taken by me on the hearing of the above cause and that this copy is a correct transcript of the same  to the best of my ability.  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19  78)ox  JANET E. SMITH R Court Reporter  20 (The foregoing certificate of this transcript does not 21 apply to any reproduction of the same by any means 22 unless under the direct control and/or supervision of  23 the certifying reporter.)  24 25