TOWN OF BRISTOL, RHODE ISLAND HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMISSION  OFBRIS  Historic District Commission Meeting Minutes Town Hall - 10 Court Street, Bristol Rhode Island Written comments may be submitted to the Historic District Historic District Commission, Bristol Town Hall, 10 Court Street, Bristol RI 02809 or via email to toEheDAStO/Fi.soM  Thursday, July 11, 2024 at 7:00 PM  Commission via regular mail addressed to:  1.  Pledge of Allegiance  The meeting was called to order at 7:01 PM, and the Pledge of Allegiance was promptly recited afterwards. In attendance: Allen, Lima, Bergenholtz, Church, Butler,  and O'Loughlin, Toth, and Teitz Absent: Millard and Ponder  2.  Review of Previous Month's Meeting Minutes 2A. Review of minutes of the June 6, 2024 meeting. Lima: Okay, let's review the previous month's meeting. Does anyone have any corrections or additions?  Allen: No. Butler: No. O'Loughlin: No. Church: No. Bergenholtz: No. the minutes?  Lima: Okay, would anyone care to make a motion to accept  10 COURT STREET, BRISTOL, RI 02809-2208 401-253-7000 FAX401-253-2647 www.bristolri.gov    Church: So moved. Allen: Seconded. and O'Loughlin Thank you.  Voting Yea: Lima, Butler, Bergenholtz, Church, Allen, Lima: The minutes of the June 6th meeting are accepted.  3.  Application Reviews  3A. 24-035: 44 Bradford St, Ellen O'Connell: Discuss and  act on replacement of windows.  Ellen O'Connell present.  O'Connell: Jason spoke to you about the windows? Toth: Ory, you looked at the sample and Sally got a Allen: Untortunately, I wasn't able to look at the window. How about the people that did see it?  chance to look at the window as well.  Lima: Sally?  Butler: The window we saw is not really anything that would mimic the window that was in the building. Allen: In regards to being a wood window or just the way  it appears?  Butler: It is not a wood window.  Toth: It was a wood window, just the back is painted. Lima: How many are you replacing? All of them? O'Connell: All of the windows if I get approved.  Lima: Are any salvageable?  O'Connell: No. It is a safety issue. I went through this Allen: We determined we would allow replacement if they needed it. On what I have here it says that they are  previously.  fiberglass is that not the case?  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    O'Connell: They are wood windows with a fiberglass wrap. Toth: Fibrex is basically a brand name for fiberglass clad window. Basically, it is the same thing under Marvin which the contractor first used under Anderson.  Nick, you can explain better.  Effectively the same product. O'Connell: Fiberglass clad window.  Allen: It was advertised as a fiberglass window. O'Connell: It may be described incorrectly. Toth: What was advertised in paper doesn't say  fiberglass. Allen: Okay.  O'Connell: You saw it Sue.  Church: I have other issues. I wasn't here for your first two visits. Those windows were installed in 1999. The sashes are custom made and are mahogany. They are not rotted are they? There is rot on the sash around the Toth: One window was so rotted that I could put my finger Church: Those windows were approved in 1999 and were 6 over 6 and 6 over 9 and I thought that the window you proposed were not appropriate for replacement in that Bergenholtz: I wasn't able to make it to see the sample. Toth: I wasn't able to get someone to bring it in to the Bergenholtz: It is a superior product over Anderson but that was with careful consideration when you first came here and presented it. Lombard spent sO much time on O'Connell: I love that home. Those windows were put in upside down and they don't work. It is cost prohibitive at this point, but I will respect your decision. Bergenholtz: That's demolition by neglect.  windows. through it.  building.  meeting.  that house.  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    O'Connell: I don't have the money to fix the windows every couple of years. I redid everything I could. I have fully respected that home, but these windows don't open, and I am going to spend a lot of money and I will be back in two years. I don't have the money to do it the way you want it. It is a lack of funds. Bergenholtz: I am familiar with the house. I owned the O'Connell: There are storm windows, which are another Bergenholtz: Sue, the windows were all replaced by Church: Yes, he replaced them and used wavy glass. He Butler: The windows that are there were done in 1999. Church: They were custom made with mahogany and the wavy Allen: You appeared three or four times, and we agreed that you could replace the windows. In fairness, we need to find a compromise to allow you to move forward.  other half at one point.  option.  Lombard with the wavy glass. had photographs from 1874.  glass.  Church: 6 over 9?  O'Connell: It will look like it does now and painted. O'Connell: Not all of the windows are wavy glass. Toth: I know in past it has said to retain the sashes. Just save the windows in the basement for future Butler: We regularly say that an applicant needs to replace with wood to match existing. Is it just our understanding that we can't find wood windows anymore? O'Connell: They don't last. They are not being used as much because they don't last as long. Other products are  Church: Can we have it say wavy glass?  preservation projects.  better.  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    Toth: Some contractors are having a difficult time getting someone to warranty full wood windows near the Butler: We will ultimately wipe out the old windows. Church: I agree. It is losing the historic fabric of the Teitz: Windows are defining features and one thing we always try to determine is the age of the windows. To determine if they are original or a period of significance, particularly if they are on a visible area of the house. These are not original and are replacements that may have used the original glass. That makes it different. Is it just this particular window. There are a lot of different grades, Marvin, Anderson, true divided. Are these true divided lights? O'Connell: I am not sure what you mean.  water.  area.  Teitz: If you are going to allow the replacement, what it will look like and visibility from street is important. Lima: If the widows were replaced in 1999 and there have been other homes that have put in replacement and they didn't last very long, my feeling is that the glass in some of windows should be retained and if someone in the future wants to revert back and have windows custom made then more power to them. We're talking 1999, not 1950 or such, as long as it has the same profile and they can be Allen: I agree. As long as it is 6 over 6 and 6 over 9 as long as you maintain that configuration, I approve it. Church: The muntin profile is very thick which is different from the others. The windows that are there  salvaged, okay.  now seem to be much thinner. O'Connell: They are sO drafty.  Church: You can have storm windows on the inside or out. Toth: Muntins are the wood pieces that divide the glass. Butler: You can say you need to retain the glass.  You can discuss it with your contractor.  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    Lima: We'll state that the windows will be taken off and stored somewhere on the property that way it would be Butler: The house is very important to the area. Lima: The windows were there since 1999. What he did was take wavy glass and put it in the windows in 1999 and the wood was not that much better than the old wood. Bergenholtz: He matched the profile of what there. The Church: I imaging they are double paned windows. Allen: I don't think they're true divided. I think they're simulated. I think you're right that the muntins are much larger than what you have on the other side. Lima: That refers to the width of the wood that holds  retained.  narrowness is key.  the glass. O'Connell: Okay.  Allen: Whomever your Project Monitor is would approve it if you can find something with a narrow profile. Church: It is this part that divides the windows. Lima: The windows are badly deteriorated. O'Connell: What are the next steps?  Lima: We will make a motion and work with the Project Allen: So you won't have to come back here again. Bergenholtz: On page 26, it looks like we're going to a 6 over 6 instead of 6 over 9 which would really be a big Teitz: Those are the first floor windows. That has to be a custom window. You won't get a non-custom window. Bergennoltz: Is the window pane size the same?  Monitor.  change.  O'Connell: Sorry I don't have the information in front of  me.  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    Allen: Seven of the windows are 6 over 9. The rest are 6  over 6. The 6 over 9 are the concern. Lima: The 6 over 6 are on the second floor. don't, can I just replace the top floor? Lima: We can put it in the motion.  O'Connell: Okay. I will see if they have it. If they  O'Connell: So storm windows are an option if this doesn't Toth: If you find it, then you can fill out the O'Connell: I will see if they have 6 over 9. Lima: Okay. Is there anyone in the audience who would like to speak for or against this application? Catherine Zipf: A couple of things. The reality is that the windows would have been maintained carefully before. While you have agreed to allow her to replace windows and If fully support keeping windows with the property, the Mahogany is very nice and I don't want to see those in a landfill. I live with replacement windows and they are starting to go. I can't get in there to fix them. This is to say maintenance is important. Storm windows are a really good idea. Let's all be mindful that wood will Allen: Vinyl windows clad, not all vinyl windows? Zipf: Just to say that when the warranty runs out on vinyl, they are harder to repair. Looking at replacement already. People have come in before to do so. Bergenholtz: The notion of these windows staying on site and being stored in the basement, I think you are relying on an honor system and that they won't be tossed. It is ridiculous to consider this to make us feel more  work?  application and be all set.  only last for about 2 years.  comfortable.  Church: Replacing will change things. just wanted to talk about the materials? Toth: There was no motion making it binding.  O'Loughlin: Didn't we already vote to allow this and we  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    O'Loughlin: Oh, okay.  Lima: I think it is time for us to have a motion. Ben, what you said is appropriate and it is the reality of O'Connell: I would keep them. I get what you are saying. Bergenholtz: I would vote yes if the profile is the same. Lima: When the motion is made, put it in there. I think that it should be put in. Do we have any idea what it  where we are at.  would be like?  Bergennoltz: Like what is there now.  Lima: Okay. Would anyone like to make a motion?  Allen: I will.  Motion made by Allen to approve the application as presented; however, it would be only for the replacement with Marvin Integrity fiberglass cladded windows, with the wood matching existing windows. We would insist that applicant keep the same glass configuration of 6 over 9 or 6 over 6, and also leave it up to Project Monitor to work with the applicant to make sure the muntin profile is the same size as what is there now which is not necessarily what was shown. That the applicant will keep the current windows with wavy glass and store them on site. Finding of fact, windows currently were rebuilt and installed in 1999 or 2000 and are not historic. Voting Yea: Bergenholtz, Allen, Lima, Butler, and  Seconded by Bergenholtz.  O'Loughlin Opposed: Church Lima: Vote is 5 to 1 Secretary of Standards: #9 Project Monitor: John Allen  Lima: John's information will be available when your Certificate of Appropriateness is ready. Please put it in the front of the house on the door. Just display it  in front sO people know.  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    O'Connell: So the next steps, do I bring the new window Toth: Once the Certificate is issued, get the building permit and put Jason in contact with John and you can  to you?  move forward from there. O'Connell: Thank you.  3B. 24-70: 180 High St, Spa 182: Discuss and Act on  installation of sign. Karly & Dan Kleitz present. We opened a year ago.  Mr. Kleitz: We are just looking to get the sign approved.  Allen: There was a concern about the height? Toth: They are trying to get it higher than 6ft. Mr. Kleitz: We talked to Ed who was very helpful. If we can get it approved here, then we can come to a happy  medium.  Allen: Is the height agreeable?  Mr. Kleitz: We can get it 4 inches up from there sO it would be 6ft 4 inches and with a modification to a bracket it will be 7 feet. There is a bench under it as  well.  Allen: Are there specific requirement?  Toth: Zoning is 10ft. Ed discussed it further and approval from this Commission would give Zoning the Allen: You are holding the sign up in this photo and it Mr. Kleitz: Yes, it's probably about that height.  ability to compromise for the height.  can go up 4 inches higher?  Allen: I can't see the bracket. Mr. Kleitz: It is not in that picture. Allen: Okay I see what you are saying.  Mr. Kleitz: We might make some modification or change the  bracket.  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2 2024    Allen: If you can get it up higher I would be okay with Lima: Me too. As long as it complies. It would have to  it.  go through Zoning.  Allen: You are a little challenged by it.  Lima: Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak for or against this? Can we make a motion? Allen: For the record, do you have any information about Mr. Kleitz: It is a composite material which is painted. Toth: I have seen the sign and it is very well done. Motion made by Allen to approve the application as presented and the sign materials which are composite materials. The sign is to be placed as high as possible. Voting Yea: Bergenholtz, OLoughlin, Church, Allen, Lima,  the sign materials?  Allen: I'11 make a motion.  Seconded by Bergenholtz.  and Butler  Secretary of Standards: #9 Project Monitor: Ory Lima  Lima: Again, when you receive your Certificate of Appropriateness, please put it in the window sO people Allen: Thank you for taking down the illuminated sign. 3C. 24-095: 41 High St, Nancy Moger: Discuss and Act on replacement of Bulkhead and replacement of outdoor  know.  deck.  Nancy & Bruce Moger present. Allen: history read into record.  Mrs. Moger: We would like to replace the bulkhead which is currently wood. It is in a very shady part of the back yard. It is rotted. We would like to replace with Azek. It is very damp and shady and things get very  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    green. Not only is the bulkhead rotted, but we also have a lot of rot on the upper deck. The upper deck is not original to the house. It is on an L that was built in the 1930s and has the same issues with trees and dampness. We would like to replace the deck with Azek as well. I think you have some pictures of the railings that we would be using. It is similar to what exists. The decking is currently fir and will be replaced with Azek with a greyish brown tone. Railings would be white Church: So you are using Azek for the whole replacement? Mrs. Moger: Yes, due to the dampness back there.  Azek.  Allen: What about the grid panels?  Mrs. Moger: As far as the grid panels/lattice work, we would like to see the lattice go back. Bruce suggested vertical boards instead of lattice, because the lattice  rots quickly.  Allen: Can either be seen from street?  Mrs. Moger: Not at all.  Church: What about the bulkhead?  Mrs. Moger: You cannot see the bulkhead from the street.  It will be Azek but the same configuration.  Church: What about fiberglass?  Mrs. Moger: No, we want something that looks like wood. We don't like fiberglass or metal. Since that material has been used along High Street on other homes. We think Allen: It helps that it is not visible from the street. AJ lot of them are not nistorically contributing as yours is. I have no issue with it since it can't be seen from  it is appropriate. Looks like wood.  the street. Lima: Agree. Bergenholtz: Agree.  Butler: The deck is to be replaced as well?  Mrs. Moger: Yes. It is warped.  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    Lima: Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak for or against this application? Can we have a  motion? Butler: I will.  Motion made by Butler to approve the application as presented to replace a bulkhead, upper deck, and railings. The materials are to be Azek. Finding of fact that it is located at the back of the house and not visible from the street. Seconded by Bergenholtz. Voting Yea: Allen, Lima, Butler, Bergenholtz, Church, and  O'Loughlin  Secretary of Standards: #9 Project Monitor: Ory Lima  Allen: May I suggest one more. Since we don't have a description or drawing with lattice work, could you Lima: We need the description of the lattice work to put  provide that to Nick? in the record.  Mrs. Moger: I will do that. Thank you. Lima: When the Certificate of Appropriateness is ready, please put it in the front sO it is visible. 3D. 24-097: 446 Thames St, Richard Corrent/Portsider: Discuss and act on installation of window where one  was previously bricked over.  Barry Lindsey, contractor, appears on behalf of the Lindsey: I am the Contractor for the Portsider. There are three replacement windows on the left side that are blocked in with breeze blocks. They want to replace Teitz: I want to note that the agenda states one window. Legally the most they can do is one window tonight because of the advertisement. Focus on that one tonight, and then you will have to come back for other two. It  owner. He has permission.  them.  has to be noticed.  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    Lindsey: They want to relocate the dumpster. I made an Lima: People do pay attention to that, and we don't want to be put in a situation. We will review the one window Lindsey: It is in the parking lot on the left-hand side. It was a warehouse, and they are turning it into a new bar. The wood they wanted to use came from Aiden's. Lima: Is the window on the parking lot side?  amendment.  before us tonight. Which side is it?  Lindsey: Correct.  Lima: Where are the other two, just for information. Lindsey: Beside each other. They want to open windows for  the water view. Allen: Which window?  Church: Does the window look at the patio?  Lindsey: No, further back. Church: Where exactly?  Lindsey: (Showes Sue on the rendering.)  Teitz: It faces the street.  Lindsey: Yes. It was originally two but changing plan. Allen: Is the one window that you want approved on here? Lindsey: Yes. (Shows Commission on drawing.)  Allen: Everyone understand?  Teitz: There is no information on the application of the Lindsey: It is in there. Sash window with wood on inside with vinyl clad on outside 6 over 6 Anderson. Lima: If we approve this, please get the profile of that window to Nick before we issue the Certificate of Appropriateness, sO we have it. Since you will have to do another application, we will have the information.  window materials.  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    Lindsey: I had the architect send him the profile. Not Toth: If it attached to the application should have been included in the package. Always attach everything. Was  sure where it is now.  it attached or emailed afterwards? Lindsey: Emailed after. check my emails.  Toth: That might have gotten buried in an email. I will  Teitz: You can delegate it to Nick to review.  Toth: I do remember getting them and thought I attached Teitz: What is the material that is black on outside?  them. I will check.  Lindsey: Vinyl.  Teitz: Vinyl is generally not approved.  Lindsey: We want to keep the exact look. I can do wood  outside to.  Lima: When were you planning to do work? Lindsey: We are in the middle of it right now. Lima: You need approval for the other two windows.  Lindsey: They can be done later. Lima: It wouldn't be until August.  Lindsey: The windows are blocked at the moment. We want to bring them back to the original state. We are trying to reproduce and reuse materials. The bathrooms were originally in that corner, but windows are better there. Lima: Provide that information to Nick as soon as possible so we can approve one window and based on whatever condition will be in the motion and then be under the understanding that the other two will be the same. Then in August, you are ready to go. Any  conditions in terms of the windows?  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    Bergenholtz: I would vote yes on the extra two with no problem. Can you leave it to the Project Monitor to  approve it? Lima: Andy, can we?  Teitz: You can. They are affectively new windows. They are visible from the street, but not very visible. Bergenholtz: It is a huge improvement. Just to save Teitz: Delegate the window decision to the Project Monitor and Nick and allow for administrative approval for the other two windows. I just want to know that they are not all same size openings right now.  everyone time.  Lindsey: They will be. Lima: Comments?  O'Loughlin: Are we approving vinyl?  Allen: Wood with vinyl. O'Loughlin: Okay.  Teitz: Generally, vinyl is never approved unless it is in Lima: Would you be able to find windows that would be able to comply with the recommendations here sO they can Lindsey: Aluminum draws moisture. Just wood with PVC clad Allen: With a commercial building it is a little  replacement of an existing vinyl window.  be clad but not with vinyl? or vinyl is my recommendation.  different.  Lima: The windows were all blocked in for many years. Is there anyone in the audience who would like to speak for  or against? Can we have a motion.  Bergenholtz: I will.  Motion made by Bergenholtz to approve the application for the installation of one window as discussed with two additional windows to be approved by the Project Monitor  and Nick. Seconded by Butler.  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    Voting Yea: Lima, Church, Butler, Allen, O'Loughlin, and  Bergenholtz  Secretary of Standards: #9 Project Monitor: Ben Bergenholtz  Lima: Nick and Ben will work with you on that. When the Certificate of Appropriateness is ready, please put it in  the front where it is visible. Lindsey: Thank you.  3E. 24-096: 37 Burton St, Timothy Meandro: Discuss and act on installation of wood fence/gate along street  frontage. Tim Meandro present.  Meandro: I am here to replace a fence.  Toth: Just want to note that there was a discussion with the Zoning Officer who proposed the location of the gate  be moved back about 20ft. Teitz: To the end of driveway?  Toth: Correct. the house.  Meandro: 20ft from the driveway to almost the back of  Allen: Is all of the fencing like the gate?  Meandro: Yes. Originally there was a fence in the spot where we wanted to put it at the sidewalk but we were Teitz: It was originally a low picket fence.  told we couldn't do that.  Meandro: We're going 20ft back. Allen: Just portions of fence? Meandro: We did some already.  Toth: It was off street frontage sO it was  administrative.  Lima: I don't have that in the packet. I'11 look at John's. All set. Anything else? Is there anyone in the  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    audience who wants to speak for or against? Can we have  a motion. Allen: Sure.  Motion made by Allen to accept the application for a gate installation as presented with a setback of 20ft from the sidewalk. Gate is to be 6ft tall and 10ft wide. Seconded Voting Yea: Bergenholtz, O'Loughlin, Lima, Butler,  by Butler.  Church, and Allen Secretary of Standard: #9 Project Monitor: Sally Butler  Lima: If you have any questions, please contact Nick. When the Certificate of Appropriateness is ready, please 3F. 24-103: 248 Hope St, James Mambro: Discuss and act on replacement of cedar roof shingles on section of house with asphalt shingles to match remainder of  put it in the front where it is visible.  house.  James Mambro present.  Mambro: There are two different materials on the roof. There is asphalt on a portion of the 1794 side. I had it replaced two years ago. I am here to change the material on the modern addition that was added in 1970 or 1980 from cedar to asphalt. The same as what was approved two years ago on the main home. The rear portion in the back yard is deteriorating. The trees have grown and covered the roof. There is a small leak in the master bedroom ceiling. I want to go from cedar to asphalt and match the color, sO it is all one color and material. Lima: Is this in the front or back?  Mambro: Rear. I have estimates to replace the cedar and it is four times as much and lasts four times as less.  Lima: Anyone have any questions?  Allen: If it was in the front I would have had a problem, but since it is not very visible, I'm okay with it.  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    Lima: Anyone else? Anyone in the audience? Anyone want to  make a motion? Church: I will.  Motion made by Church to approve the application for replacement of existing cedar shingle roof with asphalt on the modern addition which is not part of the historic  building. Seconded by Allen Secretary of Standards: #9 Project Monitor: Sue Church the front of the building.  Lima: Please put the Certificate of Appropriateness in 3G. 24-105: 124 Hope St, Christian Brown: Discuss and Act on removal of rear gable dormer and windows, installation of rear shed dormer and addition of  attic windows.  Vincent Pacifico, Designer, and Christian Brown present. Allen: I met with the architect; do I have to recuse Teitz: I think you do since it is ex parte communication.  myself?  Allen recused. project.  Brown: I brought Vincent who is the Designer of the Pacifico: This sits on the southern part of Hope Street near the Lobster Pot with frontage on Hope Street. It is as single gable home with a shed dormer on the front which is not original to the house. It was probably added on in the 1900s and is not original to the main house. The scope is all happening in the rear which includes the demolition of an existing portion of the roof to add a shed dormer to help pick up the eve space in the house to add a bedroom and to access attic space. It will be similar to the front dormer, not mimicking original piece offset/inset from gable ends of house. It is less important than the prominent main piece of the house. It is less apparent due to the offset from the exterior walls. The windows on the rear dormer of house are similar in kind to the 2 over 2 windows on the main part of the house. The original windows were replaced in  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    2014. The new windows will be Pella Reserve Series wood interior and exterior only difference is the muntins. We are proposing to remove the window on the front. It is not visible from Hope Street. On the north side of the home, the gable side, we are proposing an attic window that would add light, ventilation, and egress for the third floor in an attic that is already there. We would like to add a small portal window on the dormer. The only piece on the Hope Street side that is proposed is above the shed dormer, would like to add three small skylights for the views of the water from the attic space. It is not extremely visible from the Hope Street side and it is extremely close to the shed dormer. Photo 1on Page 4 shows it. Portals will be above the shed dormer on the front. The materials for the windows are all wood and painted. The porthole skylights are to be in kind to what is on the house currently. Clapboards are all wood and painted to match the rest of the house. Brown: I have been in Bristol all of my life. This is our dream home. I would hate to leave the home. Vincent works with properties in this area. Just asking for Lima: Most of this is in the rear of house?  consideration on this project.  Pacifico: Correct.  Bergenholtz: The dormer as proposed is really big and overpowers the original lines of the house. The ridge line needs to be stepped down to mimic the front. The dormer is bigger than the house. It really compromises the original lines of the house. I'm not comfortable Church: I agree. The massing destroys the spirit of the house. It is overwhelming. Also it faces Wally Street and can be seen when anyone goes on it. It is very visible. Is there some other way to put an addition to create more room? There is plenty of land. Bergennoitz: I'm not opposed to it, but wish it was more Lima: Is there any other possibility without changing Pacifico: The dormer for the second floor made the stairs difficult to get up to the third floor. Looked at  with it.  like the front.  the interior for the space needed?  Historic District Commission Meeting. July 11,2024    a number of stairs like spiral, winder, and ship ladder and we were able to get a true staircase in for minimal height. If we step it down, the stairs wouldn't work and we're back to square one. The only way to make the third floor accessible is to do a dormer. The underside of the ridge beam is 7'4" only way to get it to work. Lima: I just wish there was a way to get a rendering to see it from Wally Street for perspective. Pacifico: The rendering is not from Wally Street. It is Bergenholtz: I don't like the ridge line. It needs to be Church: It doesn't look like a Cape from the back. You stepped it in from side, but it is still too tall. Pacifico: We are just looking for feedback.  from the garage. stepped down.  Bergenholtz: I would totally vote yes if you mimicked Pacifico: Okay. I know the only thing about the front is the windows don't line up with the windows on the first floor. Is that something that you would be in favor of?  the front of the house.  Church: I think it is better off side. Bergenholtz: I see what you are saying.  Church: I can't vote for this. Can we do it as a concept review? That way you can rethink maybe what you would Pacifico: Can we extend the application to the next  like to do. time?  Lima: We can give input now. chance to make changes.  Teitz: Continue this. It is simple to give them a Lima: Let's check with everyone that way you can get the Butler: I do agree with the conversation about making  information.  this dormer smaller.  Historic District Commission Meeting. July 11,2024    O'Loughlin: I agree.  Lima: I thought what you did was okay but again take this information and maybe you could find a way to work it with what you have heard here tonight. If that is okay Brown: Yes, I want feedback. I am concerned that if the dormer mimics the front it will not allow for the attic Lima: Is there any way you can recontigure something? Pacifico: We looked at multiple versions and we would need to take the center chimney down. If we don't dormer it, it can't be habitable by code. It would be a crawl space which makes no sense. If we were to do a second story dormer and not on the third, it is not accessible. Revisiting it can be done with feedback sO when we come back we will have something else. The three portal skylights, what is your thoughts on that? It is not a big piece but it played into a floor plan. Is that  with you.  space which is what I need.  something acceptable? Lima: Where is that? Pacifico: A12.01  Bergenholtz: I'm not crazy about it. We want to be careful about setting a precedence for other properties. Pacifico: Can we come to a compromise of that idea to get something like that but more appropriate? Reason is to have a water view. Thought it was a way to make that Bergenholtz: Sue had an interesting comment. Any thought just to expand it in the back to give you the Pacifico: It would be more apparent from the street side. You would be coming through bathroom window and a living room window. There is some room on the back but would be losing yard space. It is a long yard, but not a wide one. The dormer didn't play into a zoning issue. We didn't think the addition was a feasible option. Church: I also oppose the porthole windows.  It looks very contemporary.  feasible.  needed space?  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    Bergenholtz: They have approved in past but they were not visible from the street. No way to be seen from any Brown: There may have been some on Constitution Street. I can see it from the side of the house. That's where I  vantage point.  got the idea.  Bergenholtz: It was a finding of fact. Lima: You could see them from the side street.  Pacifico: Would it be more acceptable if they were where the dormer meets the roof, be smaller in size, and can't Bergenholtz: If you can't see them, then yeah.  be seen from the street?  Pacifico: Appreciate the feedback.  Lima: If you could come up with options trying different contigurations, would be great. I don't think this is overwhelming, but I can't see what they see. If you could Pacifico: We had an informal meeting with John Allen to get his take on it. Also, we don't want to come multiple Lima: In the future, come with options to a concept review to get feedback to get a feel and then consult with Nick. He's not a member and doesn't vote but has a feel for what is going on. A concept review might make the whole process easier to get feedback and change things. I appreciate the work and I don't have a problem Church: Keep in mind the original size of the building and any addition should be scaled to fit it. Pacifico: If there is a vote tonight.  come with choices, that may be better.  times. I feel like that can get costly.  with it, but some do.  Lima: We can continue it. back for a year, correct?  Pacifico: If you vote against it, then we can't come  Lima: Correct. We don't want to do that.  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    O'Loughlin: I don't have an issue with the portholes but Lima: Just get a feel for what people think. Can we have  the size on the back is an issue. an motion to move it to August?  Pacifico: When? Toth: August 1st. Lima: or September?  Toth: Keep in mind in order to get on the agenda it needs to be in the paper next week for the August meeting as it Lima: The ad would be the same. That's just if you have Brown: Can we get on it and then maybe push to September  is coming up quick. the time to prepare. if necessary?  Lima: Yes, ask Nick before the meeting.  Toth: You would have plenty of time with the Commission. Bergenholtz: The application is really well done, very Lima: Nick show this in future. It is very specific and  thorough. Thank you. detailed. Thank you. Pacifico: Thank you Lima: Motion? Church: Sure.  Motion made by Church to continue the application to the Voting Yea: Lima, Butler, Bergenholtz, O'Loughlin, and 3H. 24-108: 417 Hope St, Jake Milne: Discuss and Act on replacement of stone headers on windows to match  August meeting. Seconded by Bergenholtz  Church  original brownstone appearance.  Jake Milne present.  Allen: Reads history into record.  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    Milne: I am the manger and general contractor on the project. The photo found shows that headers were originally brownstone material. Headers were redone with cement. This photo confirms that. To best of my knowledge, this is part of the Harold Mason photo collection. 1900 and 1920 is the date range. Not a ton of information on it. This was the best I could find. Looking to return the headers back to brownstone color Allen: There was a problem with the Portland cement. Milne: Yes, correct. The other issue was it was pulling off the building and would crash to sidewalk. It has a lot to do with water getting behind it and forcing it O'Loughlin: Where did you get the information. Milne: I tried everything to get information considering repointing on John Street. It was basically a façade and it was replaced with plywood that was painted white. It gave me a hunch that something different was going on.  using limestone mix to emulate the look.  out.  Basically stumbled upon it. Bergenholtz: Interesting.  Milne: In order to do repointing we had to remove window  jams and there was brown paint behind one.  Lima: Great job. Allen: Looks great.  Milne: Wanted to have it right.  Lima: Anyone have any questions or comments? Is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against  this? Let's have a motion.  Allen: Okay.  Motion made by Allen to accept the application as presented to have the headers match existing brownstone. Voting Yea: Allen, Butler, Church, Lima, O'Loughlin, and  Seconded by Church. Bergenholtz  Secretary of Standards: #9  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    Project Monitor: John Allen  4. 5.  Concept Review  Monitor Reports & Project Updates  Bergenholtz: The property on Constitution Street.  Allen: They received three.  Bergenholtz: Are they doing it piece by piece? Allen: They said that they got three. Toth: They have one year to start it.  Teitz: Basically the building permit lasts for twelve months, and they can get another six months if they ask Toth: I can check the building permit. I don't know if they keep doing work that it would remain open or if it is a twelve month with a six month extension. Bergenholtz: 22 Bradford Street. I know that the homeowner spoke to Nick and they are not doing asphalt,  for it.  just pavers. Toth: Yes. Church: For what? Toth: Parking.  Bergenholtz: They're not doing asphalt, just pavers.  Church: Parking on both sides?  Toth: Both sides was asphalt but they decided on pavers.  Lima: Good.  Church: Do the owners still live there?  Toth: I don't know.  Bergenholtz: He lives there. His daughter is there, and  his brother is moving there. Lima: Anything else?  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    6. 7. 8.  HDC Coordinator Reports & Project Updates  HDC Coordinator Approvals Other Business  1. Election of Commission Officers Lima: Any nominations for Chair? Allen: I nominate Ory. Butler: Second Lima: Others? and O'Loughlin. Lima: Okay, Vice Chair?  Voting Yea: Allen, Church, Bergenholtz, Lima, Butler,  Church: I nominate John Allen as Vice-Chair.  Lima: Second. Bergenholtz Secretary. Church: Second. and O'Loughlin  Voting Yea: Church, Butler, Lima, O'Loughlin, Allen, and Lima: Next, Secretary. I nominate Mary Millard as  Voting Yea: Lima, Allen, Church, Butler, Bergenholtz,  Lima: Great. Is there anything else?  Toth: Other than going around next week to give out nasty grams to all with lit signs and speak with various businesses in the District, I know the convenience store came under new management on Hope Street. I will speak to them and Roberto's Café, Mount Hope Liquors, and the Lima: Also, something we had discussed with Planning and Zoning, we agreed that we are not going to approve that stuff. May be new to some Owners, but business that have been here for a while should know and not be new to them.  nail salon on Hope Street.  Toth: There was some pushback.  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024    Lima: Can we have Steve help? That's part of his Toth: I just wanted to make the Commission aware of it. Lima: Okay, thank you Nick. Anything else? Allen: I move to adjourn the meeting. Motion made by Allen to adjourn. Adjourned at 9:05 PM  purview and part of his stuff.  9.  Drypna ypni  Historic District Commission Meeting July 11,2024