1  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  OLD FORGE BOROUGH COUNCIL  IN RE: SPECIAL MEETING OF COUNCIL  HELD:  Thursday, July 27, 2023  TIME: 5:30 P.M.  ORIGINAL  LOCATION:  OLD FORGE MUNICIPAL BUILDING 310 South Main Street 01d Forge, Pennsylvania  COUNCIL  MEMBERS:  RUSSELL RINALDI, President  RICK NOTARI MICHELE AVVISATO MICHAEL LETTIERI LOUIS FEBBO ANDREW BUTLER  MARYLYNN BARTOLETTI, Borough Manager WILLIAM RINALDI, Esquire, Solicitor  MICHELLE SMOLSKIS OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER    2  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. RINALDI: Good evening everyone.  I'd like to begin with the Pledge of  Allegiance, please.  (Pledge of Allegiance.)  MR. RINALDI: Roll call, please,  MaryLynn.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato?  MS. AVVISATO: Here.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler?  MR. BUTLER: Here.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo?  MR. FEBBO: Here.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Hoover  is absent. Councilman Lettieri?  MR. LETTIERI: Present.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari?  MR. NOTARI: Present.  MS. - BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi? MR. RINALDI: Here. Once again,  ladies and gentlemen, welcome tonight,  Thursday, July 27, 2023. We're going to begin the public hearing for our proposed LERTA    3  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  request from Mr. George Dunbar and Holly Ridge Estates. To open up the public hearing, I'm  going to need a motion.  MR. BUTLER: I'11 make a motion. MR. RINALDI: Motion on the floor by  Councilman Butler.  MR. FEBBO: I'17 second it. MR. RINALDI: Second by Councilman  Febbo. On the question?  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: Public input?  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: Roll call, please,  MaryLynn.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Avvisato?  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler?  MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo?  MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Lettieri?  MR. LETTIERI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari?    4  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS.  BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi? MR. RINALDI: Yes. Bill, if you  would like to just take us through the steps?  ATTY. RINALDI: Sure. So, at the  last : actually, two meetings ago, Mr. Dunbar, representing Holly Ridge Estates, requested that the Borough Council entertain a LERTA, which is a program that is being authorized by the State which is called, it's actually the full title is the Local Economic Revitalization Tax Assistance. It enables a developer or a property owner to improve a deteriorated industrial, commercial or other business  property.  So, pursuant to that, prior to the  Council entertaining a LERTA, the Council has to determine if the property is deteriorated. So, in order to do that, we're holding this public meeting sO that Council can hear input from all those involved as to why this property is deteriorated, in addition to what they already know about the property in terms of it's abandoned Pennsylvania coal company, and the planning commission had previously, for    5  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  another state program, recommended to Council  and designated it as blight.  So, with that being said,  Mr. Chairman, we could proceed with the public hearing on hearing this specific property, which is located on Forge Street and Howard Street down by the river as a deteriorated  property.  MR. RINALDI: So, how we'17 handle  the public hearing, we're going to give Mr. Dunbar and his associates a few moments to come up and address us, explain the property,  let the public hear.  We'17 let the public, if anyone from  the public has any questions, we'11 let you ask us a few questions, we'11 let the Council ask a few questions, and then once we're all through,  we'11 adjourn the public hearing.  We're going to ask Mr. Dunbar and  his associates, whoever you would like, to come forward first and explain your proposal.  ATTY. GALLAGHER: Good evening,  Council. I think you all know, my name is Mike Gallagher. I'm counsel for Mr. Dunbar and  Holly Ridge Estates.    6  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  We're going to be brief tonight.  We've been through two hearings on this already, or two meetings on this already.  As counsel for the Council  indicated, the property is at Howard Street and Forge Street in 01d Forge. It's an old coal mine property. It has been deteriorated for a number of years, nothing's been done with it.  It had been declared as a blight  property by the 01d Forge Planning Commission in 2009, by the school district in 2009, as well, and then Borough Council in 2010 and the  County of Lackawanna in 2010.  Nothing has changed with the  property since that time. The blight condition has not been removed. It's our position that it is still a blighted property, that blight was never changed, and we're asking that Council move forward tonight and grant the LERTA. And that's about all we have unless  Council has questions.  MR. RINALDI: Does Council have any  questions for Mr. Dunbar's attorney?  MS. AVVISATO: No.  ATTY. GALLAGHER: Okay. Thank you    7  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  very much.  MR. RINALDI: You're welcome.  Anyone from the public, would you like to  comment or any questions?  MR. LETTIERI: Jim.  MR. RINALDI: Oh, I'm sorry, I  didn't see you. If you'd come up to the podium? Just state your name, please.  SHANNON BLEDSOE, having been duly  sworn, was examined and testified as follows:  COURT REPORTER: Please state and  spell your name.  MS. BLEDSOE: Shannon Bledsoe,  B-L-E-D-S-0-E. I'm here because my husband was unable to make the meeting because he's at work and he asked me to read what he had typed up in  favor of Mr. Dunbar.  Okay. Good evening, Council. I,  Mike Bledsoe, am unable to attend the meeting due to work. I would like this statement to be put into record. I fully support the new proposed development of Mr. Dunbar.    8  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Here in 01d Forge we do not have  what Moosic, Dickson City, Taylor or Pittston currently have. We don't have big retailers or warehouses. We also need to grow our borough.  The last time I looked around 01d  Forge, there is not much property to be able to develop. I - believe this will bring revenue to our borough, which, in my opinion, is much needed and it will also develop a horrible  looking property.  Mr. Dunbar's other properties are  beautiful and I believe currently bring in more revenue than they have since they've been developed. This new development will help local businesses and bring in a lot to our  community.  Mr. Dunbar has also brought a lot to  our community as he is a valuable part of this community. Thank you, Mr. Dunbar, for everything you have done and everything you continue to do and contribute to the community.  Thank you for the time to hear what  Ih have to say. Thank you. Michael Bledsoe.  MR. RINALDI: You're welcome. We  appreciate your comments. Let Mike know.    9  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MS. BLEDSOE: Okay.  MR. RINALDI: Thank you. Anyone  else?  MICHAEL ZUPON, having been duly  sworn, was examined and testified as follows:  COURT REPORTER: Please state and  spell your full name?  MR. ZUPON: Michael Zupon,  Z-U-P-0-N.  MR. RINALDI: Good evening.  MR. ZUPON: Good evening everybody.  I just want to point out in Pennsylvania here, it seems like all the small towns are starting to lose population, the people are moving out of the area, where 01d Forge, right now, we have a chance to gain population, gain more  taxes, gain everything.  I think this is a win-win for  everybody, this development, and I just want to  go on record stating that.  MR. RINALDI: Thanks, Mike. We  appreciate your comments, as well.    10  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. ZUPON: Yep. Thank you. MR. RINALDI: You're welcome. Any  other members of the public?  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: Before we adjourn the  public hearing, Council, any other questions or  concerns?  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: Attorney Rinaldi. ATTY. RINALDI: I would just note  that we do have Planning Commission members present here at the meeting. They were notified. Zoning was notified. So, I'm going to assume their silence means they're not opposing the deteriorated area.  MR. RINALDI: With that said, the  Chair would entertain a motion to adjourn the  public hearing.  MS. AVVISATO: I'17 make that  motion.  MR. RINALDI: Motion on the floor by  Councilwoman Avvisato.  MR. FEBBO: Second.  MR. RINALDI: Seconded by Councilman  Febbo. On the question?    11  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: Public input?  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: Roll call, please. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato?  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler?  MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo?  MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Lettieri?  MR. LETTIERI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari?  MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi? MR. RINALDI: Yes. Council agree to  do a brief executive session. We'11 be back out to start the special meeting soon.  (At this time a brief recess was taken.)  MR. RINALDI: Ladies and gentlemen,    12  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  before we begin, there's a public sign-in sheet here, if anyone would like to come up and sign. We'17 give you a few moments to speak.  Once again, ladies and gentlemen,  good evening. Thank you for being patient with us. The Chair is going to entertain a motion  to open up the special meeting.  MS. AVVISATO: I'11 make that  motion, Mr. Chairman.  MR. RINALDI: Motion on the floor by  Councilwoman Avvisato.  MR. BUTLER: Second.  MR. RINALDI: Seconded by Councilman  Butler. On the question?  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: Public input?  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: Roll call, please,  MaryLynn.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato?  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler?  MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo?    13  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Lettieri?  MR. LETTIERI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari?  MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi? MR. RINALDI: Yes. The purpose of  the special meeting tonight is there's going to be a motion on the floor for an ordinance affixing the boundaries of a deteriorated area within the Borough of 01d Forge of a certain parcel of land located off Howard Street and Forge Street in the Borough of 01d Forge and identified as part of pin No. 18412-040-004 owned by Holly Ridge Estates granting  exemptions from real estate property taxes for the cost of new construction or improvements of said parcel; setting forth an exemption schedule for each year for ten years; and procedure for obtaining said exemption pursuant  to the Pennsylvania Local Economic Revitalization Tax Assistant Act, LERTA.  The Chair right now will entertain a  motion to pass the proposed LERTA with the    14  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  amendments attached.  ATTY. RINALDI: I can :  MR. RINALDI: Could you read the two  amendments?  ATTY. RINALDI: Yes. So, there was  a blank with regards to the redevelopment authority of County of Lackawanna for their meeting, sO we added the verbiage, Redevelopment authority of the County of Lackawanna as disavowed and terminated the TIF percent property as well as the TIF district for said property by resolution, and the blank is filled in with, Voted upon by all five authority board members responding in the affirmative that they are in favor of the resolution regarding disavowing and dissolving the Tax Increment Financing plan for the 01d Forge tax incremented finance district located at the ends of Forge Street and Howard Street, having tax map parcel Nos. 18412-040-004 and 18412-040-003, with formal ratifying resolution to be taken on the September 13, 2023 authority board meeting. Copy of the same attached to  this ordinance.  So, there's a copy of their    15  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  resolution that they're going to pass attached  to our end.  MR. RINALDI: And for the public's  knowledge, that amendment would be if this LERTA was to pass tonight, the county has a TIF on that property. Once that TIF is disavowed by the county, the LERTA would then take place.  Correct, bill?  ATTY. RINALDI: Yes.  MR. RINALDI: And the second  amendment7  ATTY. RINALDI: The second amendment  is a paragraph added saying : added to the paragraph five that the exemptions shall be forfeited in the event of four or five different things. That was in the advertised  ordinance.  We added a paragraph,  Notwitnstanding the foregoing, Holly Ridge Estates, Inc., or other responsible tax payer or subsequent owner of the property shall be given 30 days to cure any default condition set forth in A through E, upon written notice sent by the Borough of termination of the exemption due to a default condition. After the    16  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  expiration of 30 days, the termination of the  exemption shall be final.  So, that was added in to that  section.  MR. RINALDI: Okay.  ATTY. RINALDI: And, lastly, just a  short little paragraph on the end of paragraph 10 reaffirming that I had listed that this exemption and ordinance are effective upon the redevelopment authority ratifying the resolution, and we just added the date that that ratification hearing was going to take  place in September 13, 2023.  MR. RINALDI: Okay.  ATTY. RINALDI: So, those are the  three amendments that we're making this  evening.  MR. RINALDI: Anything else before I  go down the table?  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: At the time the Chair  would entertain a motion to pass the said LERTA  on the statement I just read earlier.  MR. FEBBO: I - have a question before  we pass it. For the sake of clarity,    17  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Mr. Dunbar, are you okay with everything that's  done?  MR. DUNBAR: I am. MR. FEBBO: Okay.  MR. NOTARI: Should we do public  comment first before we bring up the new  business?  MR. RINALDI: Well, that will come  up.  MR. NOTARI: Okay.  MR. RINALDI: Because we'1l go down  the table and then we'11 go on the question and  then public comment.  ATTY. RINALDI: He always asks for  public comment :  MR. NOTARI: Okay. (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MR. RINALDI: Yeah. I always ask  for public comment before we vote anyway.  MR. NOTARI: I was just going by the  agenda. That's okay. Okay.  MR. RINALDI: Yeah.  MR. NOTARI: I'm good with that. MR. RINALDI: Make a motion? MR. FEBBO: I'17 make a motion.    18  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. RINALDI: Motion on the floor by  Councilman Febbo.  MR. BUTLER: Second.  MR. RINALDI: Second by Councilman  Butler. On the question?  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: Public input? MS. EMLAW: (Inaudible.) MR. RINALDI: Excuse me? MS. - EMLAW: We'd like to ask  questions about what's going to take place with this whole project. When does it start? How are they bringing the equipment in? We have  questions about it.  MR. RINALDI: What's your question,  ma'am?  MS. EMLAW: When is this project  supposed to be :  MR. RINALDI: You have to come up to  the podium, please.  JANICE EMLAW, having been duly  sworn, was examined and testified as follows:    19  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  COURT REPORTER: Please state and  spell your full name.  MS. EMLAW: J-A-N-I-C-E, E-M-L-A-W.  118 Howard Street. I would like to know when the project is going to begin so I know when to put my house up for sale. It's true. We don't  know?  ATTY. GALLAGHER: Well, I think what  we're here tonight on is the issue of the LERTA, whether or not to grant the LERTA.  (Inaudible crosstalk.)  COURT REPORTER: I can only take one  person speaking at a time. Everyone has to  wait their turn please.  ATTY. GALLAGHER: The issue tonight  is the granting of the LERTA. The project  itself was approved long ago.  MS. EMLAW: Well, we know that. You  can't tell me when it's supposed to start?  MR. DUNBAR: We're not sure yet. We  have to :  MS. EMLAW: It's a secret.  MR. DUNBAR: It's not a secret. For  the record, my name is George Dunbar, president  of Holly Ridge.    20  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  So, as of now, I don't have a start  date in reference to my sequence of  construction. Hopefully, tonight I'm awarded a LERTA, then I need to go back to the bank and tell them that I have a LERTA, then I need to put financing in place. So, to answer your question truthfully, I do not have a set date.  And you asked how are we going to  enter it. So, we have two ingresses and egresses, that means in and out, correct. A1l this went through engineering, so there's a lot of compliance a developer like myself has to go  through.  So, two ingresses. One's going to  be on Forge Street and one's going to be on  Howard Street.  MS. EMLAW: This is how the  equipment's going to be coming in?  MR. DUNBAR: When you say a lot,  could you define a lot? Like, what's a lot to  you?  MS. EMLAW: I C didn't say a lot. I  said the equipment.  MR. DUNBAR: Equipment.  MS. EMLAW: Which way it was coming    21  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  in.  MR. DUNBAR: We'11 be ingressing on  Howard and Forge Street with our equipment, which will probably remain on site for about seven or eight years. So, you're not going to  see that every day.  MS. EMLAW: That's all right, I'm  selling my house anyway. You've screwed everybody back there. I hope you're happy, because that's what you do, take away everybody's privacy, everything. You're  disgusting.  DAVID SKUTACK, having been duly  sworn, was examined and testified as follows:  ***  COURT REPORTER: Please state and  spell your name.  MR. SKUTACK: David Skutack. COURT REPORTER: Could you please  spell that?  MR. SKUTACK: S-K-U-T-A-C-K. COURT REPORTER: Thank you.  MR. SKUTACK: I'm here on behalf of    22  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  my daughter, which is also on Howard Street, my sister. How are you going to monitor the superfund site that's down there to see if there's any leaks? They didn't clean that one  out either.  MR. DUNBAR: We don't own that  property. I don't own that :  MR. SKUTACK: I know, but you're  still going to be down there bulldozing it.  MR. DUNBAR: No.  MR. SKUTACK: What do you mean no?  Your property borders right through it.  MR. RINALDI: Mr. Skutack. MR. SKUTACK: And what about the  retention ponds?  MR. RINALDI: Mr. Skutack. MR. SKUTACK: Yes.  MR. RINALDI: One property owner  can't go on another property owner's land.  MR. SKUTACK: I understand that. MR. RINALDI: So, Mr. Dunbar can't  goon   (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MR. SKUTACK: When you're disturbing  ground    23  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. RINALDI: I would say he's not  allowed to go on their land and dig. He'11  only be digging up his own land.  MR. SKUTACK: But it bumps right  into his down there.  MS. EMLAW: Yeah. It's side by  side.  MR. RINALDI: So, do you think that  something's buried under his land?  MR. SKUTACK: I don't know back  there. I'm saying the land that's there, if he  disturbs that property.  MR. RINALDI: Well, he's not going  on that land he just stated. Correct?  MR. DUNBAR: Correct. Yes. MR. RINALDI: He's staying on his  own land.  MR. SKUTACK: Wé understand that.  But if he's coming within 15 feet of the borderline with his dozers, isn't he going to pull a cap off of a zone? Like, nobody's monitoring up here? He's up here digging and  stuff.  And what about retention ponds? You  made the guy down the road put a retention pond    24  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  in for one building. His buildings are, like, twice the amount of rain that's going to come off of that building. Id didn't see any retention ponds over at this one on Keyser  right down :  (Inaudible crosstalk.) MR. RINALDI: That would be a  question for Mr. Dunbar.  MR. DUNBAR: So, ladies and  gentlemen, I went through the compliance process. Your time, and I'm being respectful to you, sir, your time to speak about that has been long passed. I'm in compliance with the  municipality   MS. - EMLAW: (Inaudible crosstalk.) MR. DUNBAR: : I'm in compliance  with the municipality ordinance, I'm in compliance with the Lower Lackawanna Sewer Authority, I'm in compliance with the Conservation District, and I'm in compliance with the Department of Environmental  Protection.  We're here tonight respectfully  requesting a LERTA from this Council. So, your time to ask these questions had been gone.    25  If you want to come to the site, you  2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  can call me when we start, I don't know the date yet, and I'd be more than happy to show you. But you have to sign a waiver when you  come on the property.  MR. SKUTACK: Well, there you go. MR. DUNBAR: I C don't want you to get  hurt.  MR. SKUTACK: Also, is EPA or  whatever going to go down and check the superfund site and see if there's anything  leaking there now?  (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MR. DUNBAR: Listen. So, I've made  a huge investment with obtaining that property, doing engineer, architectural, so the former developer had an E-1, which means an environmental study done. I took it a step further, I retained a geo sciences and we did an E-2 environmental study on the land to make  sure the land was good.  As a developer, the last thing I  want to do is buy any parcel of land, may it be 35 acres or a half acre, that's contaminated. So, hopefully that answers your questions. I    26  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  would not be a good businessman. I'd be out of  business.  MR. SKUTACK: I - totally understand  that.  MR. DUNBAR: So, to answer your  question, the land is good. We have documentation to support it.  MR. SKUTACK: The land where you  drilled, but where the superfund site :  MR. DUNBAR: That has nothing to do  with me, sir.  ATTY. GALLAGHER: He can't drill  there.  MR. SKUTACK: Right. I totally  understand that, but it is a superfund site that I believe was capped. So, how deep did it  go? Does anybody have that answer?  So, again, if he starts going down,  we know how water runs, it goes uphill, downhill, left and right, once you get water from the river start seeping in there,  everything else, it's on a coal pile, sO is it  going to disturb this cap?  I don't know if there's : well,  this is something you guys need to look into.    27  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Again, I'm not picking on him, but they built  over here :  (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MR. RINALDI: I understand, but I'm  saying, if he's digging on his own property and none of that stuff is under there, then I would suspect that, no, it wouldn't be  disturbed.  MR. SKUTACK: Okay. So, you guys  are going to stick behind that?  MR. RINALDI: Just for  clarification, that's my opinion.  MR. SKUTACK: Okay.  MR. RINALDI: I'm no engineer.  That's my opinion. I would say that if there's a superfund site here and there's a proposed development here and stuff is buried under here, not under here, and you're digging over here, I can't see it disturbing over here. But, again, that's up to the Department of EPA  and DEP, not me.  MR. SKUTACK: Well, he says egress  and regress, too, Forge Street and Howard, does that mean they're changing, it's going to be both one ways? Or he could go up one with    28  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  equipment and out the other?  MR. RINALDI: No. He could take the  designated roads the way that they're already  ordained.  MR. SKUTACK: Okay. We're not  going to be changing it to one ways or  anything like :-  MR. BUTLER: No. MS. - AVVISATO: No. MR. RINALDI: No.  MR. SKUTACK: Just to suit this  development?  MR. RINALDI: No, no. What he means  by ingress and egress on those two streets, those two areas, where cars would go in and  out.  MR. SKUTACK: Yes. Exactly. MR. RINALDI: And if those streets  were to be changed, which I don't see them being changed, that has nothing to do with Mr. Dunbar. Only the Borough could do that.  MR. SKUTACK: And what type  of housing :  (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MR. DUNBAR: So, we're going to    29  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  build a combination of upscale town homes, three bedrooms, two and a half bath, two car garage, and we're going to do apartment  buildings.  MS. EMLAW: (Inaudible crosstalk.) MR. RINALDI: Ma'am, if you could  please.  MS. EMLAW: Yeah.  MR. RINALDI: If you'd like to come  back up to the podium, you could, but it's hard to hear Dave and George speak when you've got a  lot of sidebars.  MR. DUNBAR: So, that's my plan to  build high end. Have you seen our current  evelopments?  MR. SKUTACK: Yes.  MR. DUNBAR: Okay. So, I plan on  making it better. However, the LERTA is a huge factor that if I'm not granted the LERTA, I may not be able to build that quality. Just :  MR. SKUTACK: Okay. Well, the only  thing I have is, again, we're going to be back here disturbing, to me, a superfund site, because he's close enough. There's a lower road that goes in there, which I think he owns.    30  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. DUNBAR: That's not an ingress  or egress.  MR. SKUTACK: No.  MR. DUNBAR: Pursuant to the  approved plans.  MR. SKUTACK: Okay. And it's also a  column bank, sO now we might be looking at the homes that are there, once they start disturbing this, also getting : starting to get water in cellars and other things, again,  underground.  It was a coal bank. They had, over  in 01d Forge Estates, they built on a coal pile and they all have pumps in the cellar because water : you can't control that rock.  MR. DUNBAR: The current topography,  right, I'm no engineer, but I know a little bit of something about topography and water flow being a developer, sO the current topography, we're at the low end, sO water, right, sO if you run water, it always goes to the lowest point, so water's not running uphill.  So, I'm lower than you or your  daughter on Howard and Forge Street. Just note that. I'm lower. Forge Street is here, Howard    31  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  Street is here, my development is here  (Indicating). I'm lower.  MR. SKUTACK: How far down are you  going?  MR. DUNBAR: Our foundations are  going to be 48 inches.  MR. SKUTACK: No, because Howard  Street, there is just a coal bank there. You go over the coal bank, and you're level with Howard Street. And, again, Forge Street, when you go up the top, there's a little pole bank and you're almost level at the top of Forge  Street.  MR. RINALDI: Excuse me. Dave,  Howard Street, when you go down Main right before the bridge across from the ambulance house, you make a left, you go up Howard  Street :  MR. SKUTACK: Yeah.  MR. RINALDI: : sO you go up a  hill :  MR. SKUTACK: Right.  MR. RINALDI: - he's building down  here. So, you wouldn't be higher, right?  (Inaudible crosstalk.)    32  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. SKUTACK: No, it's not. It  won't be higher. Unless he's taking a lot of stuff out. That's what I'm asking.  MR. DUNBAR: So, hold on. Again,  respectfully, I'm here tonight for a LERTA, you're talking about land development plans. We really, you know, we shouldn't be having  that discussion. You're :-  MR. SKUTACK: But it's all going to  come out in the plans?  MR. DUNBAR: You can contact the  Borough, the plans are here in the  municipality, and you could review the plans. I'm sure they will let you do that, if you  submit a written :  MR. SKUTACK: Okay.  MR. DUNBAR: So, when we develop,  there's two types of plans, there's civil and there's architectural. Civil means sanitary, storm water, grading, topography, etc.  MR. SKUTACK: Okay.  MR. DUNBAR: Architectural means the  buildings. So, the architectural plans to date have not been submitted. Again, if you want to review the plans, you can bring your engineer    33  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  and review the plans. They're here in the  municipality building.  MR. SKUTACK: That would be the  Borough's engineer to check :  MR. DUNBAR: We already did. We  already went through that.  MR. SKUTACK: Is there going to be a  retention pond there like we had over : you made them put down here? Any retention ponds?  MR. DUNBAR: So, there's already a  retention pond in place that the former developer put there. It's already there, because, you know, he planned on developing, sO he put the retention pond in and, you know, couldn't get financing, to my understanding, and the project was dead. But the retention  pond is there.  MR. SKUTACK: That is on your  property?  MR. DUNBAR: Correct. It's already  done.  MR. SKUTACK: Okay. That retention  pond :-  MR. DUNBAR: When it overflowed. MR. SKUTACK: That retention pond,    34  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  again, is 30 feet from the fence where the  superfund site was.  MR. RINALDI: That retention pond  was approved 13 years ago.  MR. SKUTACK: I understand that. I  understand retention pond, but I'm getting back again, the part that concerns me is they have to work on this retention pond because he doesn't know if everything's all in place there  for sure.  MR. DUNBAR: No, we do know that.  Don't put words in my mouth.  MR. SKUTACK: Okay.  MR. DUNBAR: I'm being respectful to  you  MR. SKUTACK: I know there's  overflow there :  (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MR. DUNBAR: : respectful to me. MR. SKUTACK: But is it deep enough?  n mean, do you have all that?  MR. DUNBAR: Listen. We're in  compliance with the municipality ordinance. My best recommendation to you, hire an engineer, come review the plans that are in the zoning    35  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  office, and then you can be comfortable what's  been approved.  MR. SKUTACK: Okay. Well, you're  the one that's supposed to do this for me, because I'm a taxpayer. Your guys should be checking the plans, making sure everything is going according to plan like it was issued.  MR. RINALDI: The plans were  already  they've already been approved.  ATTY. RINALDI: I know I see  November 2021, but were they approved in '22?  Because I don't have :  MR. DUNBAR: Yeah. We came back. MR. SKUTACK: And let me ask another  question.  ATTY. RINALDI: They went through  planning meetings, actually almost twice  because their :  MR. SKUTACK: (Inaudible crosstalk.) ATTY. RINALDI: : to the 2006  plans. So, they were reviewed twice, once by the former Borough engineer and by the current  Borough engineer.  MR. SKUTACK: When was information  sent out to the people that live up there to    36  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  come to these meetings? Was there anything generated to send to them to see if they wanted to show up, or they weren't public meetings or  what's :  MR. RINALDI: No, they were all  public meetings.  ATTY. RINALDI: They were public  planning commission meetings. Planning commission meets every month.  MR. SKUTACK: I believe tonight, all  those people, did you guys get anything?  MS. EMLAW: I got nothing. I knew  nothing about it.  MR. SKUTACK: Okay. Nobody knew :  (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MR. RINALDI: It was advertised in  the paper.  MS. EMLAW: Well, not everybody gets  the paper.  MR. SKUTACK: That's okay, but what  about the people that live there, you didn't  send letters out to them?  ATTY. RINALDI: No. There's no : MR. SKUTACK: I could understand for  me because I'm at the other end.    37  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. RINALDI: We're required by law  to post in the paper.  MR. SKUTACK: Just to post in the  paper?  ATTY. RINALDI: Yeah. We don't :  there's nothing in :  MR. RINALDI: Yeah.  ATTY. RINALDI: -- either the  municipality's planning code that says when somebody comes in to do a development, we send  out letters to all the neighbors.  There's planning commission  meetings every month, and those projects sometimes take multiple meetings of presenting, re-presenting, sketch plans, final plans,  preliminary plans.  Im mean, if people come to the  planning commission meetings, they would see  what's going on.  mean, last week we had a lot  consolidation for a gentleman who had put two lots together. That's like normal business for  the planning commission.  MR. SKUTACK: Okay. If I'm not  mistaken, when they tried to put a building    38  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  down near my house, a big barn style, there was letters sent out that it was going in, to come  to the Council meeting.  ATTY. RINALDI: Yeah. That's  because that was a zoning change, and under the zoning you have to notify property owners within 100 feet of the property line :  MR. SKUTACK: Okay.  ATTY. RINALDI: - if you're  proposing a zoning change. So, we were  changing that zone from a C-2 to a, I forget, a C-2 to C-3, I think. That's why. That's a special. That's a change in your zoning map.  That gets special notice.  MR. SKUTACK: What's the current  zoning on the :-  ATTY. RINALDI: R-2 and : the  project is in the R-2 zone, and then what  borders it is an E-1 zone.  MR. SKUTACK: So, he can build there  because :  ATTY. RINALDI: No, no, no. MR. RINALDI: No. Only in the R-2. ATTY. RINALDI: Only in the R-2. MR. SKUTACK: That's what I'm    39  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  saying, just the R-2 zone.  MR. RINALDI: Just the R-2. ATTY. RINALDI: Just the R-2 zone.  MR. SKUTACK: Okay.  ATTY. RINALDI: If you look at his  plan, you will see how it's up towards Howard  and Forge Street.  MR. SKUTACK: So, the only way they  would have letters is if there's a zoning  change somewhere?  ATTY. RINALDI: We're required to  notify the property owners within 100 feet.  MR. SKUTACK: Okay.  ATTY. RINALDI: That's the state  law. I C can't :  MR. SKUTACK: Yeah. I still think  there might be an issue down there, but I guess we have to wait and find out. I mean, I'm here because, I don't know, I don't think it should be developed because of the fact of it is sO close to a superfund site, but the way things go, I guess we have to deal with what we're  dealt.  I guess that's all I have to say  right now.    40  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. RINALDI: Thanks, Dave. We  appreciate your comments.  MICHAEL FALVO, having been duly  sworn, was examined and testified as follows:  COURT REPORTER: State and spell  your full name.  MR. FALVO: Michael Falvo,  F-A-L-V-0. So, my only question is, like, I understand everybody wants to make money, whatever, we weren't really, you know, notified. As you said, it was in the paper.  My question for Mr. Dunbar is how  are you tying it in to us? Like, are you using our sewers, electric, water? Like, how is that  going to work?  We have enough issues on Howard  Street the way it is. Two people flush their  toilet, their flood :  (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MR. DUNBAR: So, Members of Council,  again, respectfully, I'm here requesting a LERTA. I've been through the process, but I    41  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  will answer the gentleman's questions.  MR. FALVO: Real quick, before :  (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MR. FALVO: No, I just want to ask  you something before.  MR. DUNBAR: Sure.  MR. FALVO: Like, I understand your  team of lawyers. Michelle Henry's a great family friend of ours, so if anything reeks of corruption, there will be nobody here.  MR. DUNBAR: Are you saying I'm  corrupt?  MR. FALVO: No.  MR. DUNBAR: Is that what you're  saying?  MR. FALVO: Did I say that? MR. DUNBAR: That's what you were  saying. Are you saying I'm corrupt, yes or no?  MR. FALVO: I never said you were.  MR. DUNBAR: Okay.  MR. FALVO: I understand, I'm new to  01d Forge, I've heard your name dropped a lot. A lot of good things, not bad. I heard you were cocky, whatever. I'11 shake your hand, I  have no issues, no qualms.    42  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. RINALDI: Michael, what's your  question?  MR. FALVO: So, you're going to tie  into us. You were heard the other day up the road talking with, not PP&L, it was on your phone with the water company, yelling that, I'11 put F'ing wells in the ground if I have  to.  MR. DUNBAR: So, what that statement  you just made, and I'm on the record, George Dunbar, president, is totally frivolous. So, don't make accusations that aren't true because you're going to get yourself jammed up.  MR. FALVO: With who?  MR. RINALDI: Mike. Michael, you  want to know how if he's going to tie :  MR. FALVO: Yeah.  MR. RINALDI: If he's going to tie  into the sewer?  MR. FALVO: (Inaudible crosstalk.) MR. RINALDI: The sewers belong to  the Borough.  MR. FALVO: Exactly. But : MR. DUNBAR: So, here's how it's  gonna work     43  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  (Inaudible crosstalk.) MR. FALVO: I'm up here.  MR. DUNBAR: Well, you asked me a  question, I'm going :  MR. FALVO: Let me address the  Council first. So, my question is he's going  to potentially tie into us :  MR. RINALDI: Well, he's going to  tie into the Borough, not you.  MR. FALVO: Okay. So, he's going to  tie into Howard Street, correct? But here's the thing, so we already have enough issues on Howard, we can't even get the bottom of our road paved let alone put a whole million-dollar townhouses in the back. Like, the bottom of our road looks like freaking Beirut. Like,  come on guys.  MR. RINALDI: That's not anything to  do with Mr. Dunbar.  MR. FALVO: No.  MR. RINALDI: That's the Borough. MR. FALVO: But I'm just saying,  like, guys really? Like, you can't pave the bottom of our road but you'11 let him build townhouses and stuff in the back, the superfund    44  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  site? Like, come on. Like, we pay you guys to  sit on this frigging board.  MR. LETTIERI: It's on the list.  It's on the pavement list, Howard Street.  MR. FALVO: Thank God, because  last :  (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MR. FALVO: And I almost wrecked my  bike and blew my skull open on the ground. Like, come on guys. We pay you guys to be  here.  MR. RINALDI: Paving just began  about a week ago.  MR. FALVO: Good. Dude, I've lived  there for five years and our road looks like  frigging Iraq in 2004.  MR. FEBBO: We can only do so many  roads in a year.  MR. FALVO: I know, but : (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MR. FEBBO: : your taxes going out,  you could send them out :  MR. FALVO: They're probably gonna  do them anyway. You're giving him ten years tax free. Like, come on, let's be real.    45  1 2 3 4 5  MR. RINALDI: It's not ten years tax  free.  MR. FALVO: What is it going to be?  ATTY. RINALDI: It's - (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MR. FALVO: Hold on. Wait. Say it  7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  again.  ATTY. RINALDI: It's an extension  for the improvements he's putting in. He still pays taxes on the property the same as if it's  vacant and nobody's in there.  MR. FALVO: Yeah, which is fine. MS. EMLAW: (Inaudible crosstalk.) MR. FALVO: And that's another  thing, dude, I'm an avid fly fisherman and I fish that river sO much. There's beautiful fish. There's deer running everywhere.  Like, I understand, bro, you got a  beautiful watch on, nice suit, team of lawyers behind you, but you don't care about that shit.  You don't :  MR. RINALDI: Michael.  MR. FALVO: Sorry. I apologize. MR. FEBBO: You're out of line. I  don't think he should be subject to the abuse    46  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  you're giving him.  MR. FALVO: How is it abuse? (Inaudible crosstalk.)  COURT REPORTER: One at a time,  please.  MR. FEBBO: Let's just address the  issue, please. Address Council.  MR. FALVO: I'm just being  realistic. I fly fish that river.  MR. FEBBO: You're attacking  Mr. Dunbar personally. You know what,  unfortunately, everything you're asking about, we've discussed this at other meetings here.  If you came to the last meeting that  he was here with his team, as you call it, he presented everything to everybody. As far as the sewers go, he has his own sewers down there. He has his own retention ponds. Take a ride down : is that Milwaukee Avenue :  MR. FALVO: Listen, I know. I'm  not :  MR. RINALDI: Mike, also, Mr. Dunbar  has no authority to tell you where you could  fly fish or not.  MR. FALVO: No, no. I get that. I    47  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  get that, but I don't want to see runoff and  stuff go back there.  (Inaudible crosstalk.) MR. RINALDI: Members of the  audience, we would need you to please be silenced when someone at the podium is  speaking.  MR. FALVO: I'm honestly, man to  man, I'm just saying, like, he's taking away the wildlife, the potential for the fishing. That river was junk years ago. Who's going to say that runoff doesn't go back into the river? You know what I mean? Like, I'm just being  real.  MR. RINALDI: Well, because, as he  explained earlier, his plans, which were approved, and then as he starts to develop more, he'11 have to come with more plans if something were to change. So he would need  approval for that, too.  But any type of runoff, water,  roads, he's all responsible for that. So, if any developer in the Borough of 01d Forge develops and they don't follow their plan, well then they're held accountable. Mr. Dunbar has    48  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  proven, though, in the past on all of his developments, he followed through on all of his  plans.  MR. FALVO: Yeah. I just want to  make sure, look it, I'm not going to say I'm for it, I'm against it. It could bring property value to our houses. You know what I mean? But at the same time, like, don't make a mockery of it. That's all I'm asking.  MR. FEBBO: How's he doing that?  How's he making a mockery of it?  MR. FALVO: Do you live on Howard  Street?  MR. FEBBO: No, I don't. MR. FALVO: Exactly.  MR. FEBBO: I'm quite familiar with  it, though.  MR. FALVO: So :  MR. FEBBO: It's over Connell's  Patch.  MR. FALVO: That's perfect, but now  we have to deal with this.  MR. FEBBO: Did you ever think that  maybe he's going to enhance the value of your properties? If you know Mr. Dunbar's history,    49  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  anything around him associated with him, he improves. Not only his property, but I'm sure that his clientele is not going to want to drive over Howard Street that's like the Ho Chi Minh Trail, if that's what it is, to get to  this house.  MR. FALVO: No, but all I'm saying  is this, commonly speaking, you don't live on Howard Street, you don't have to see it every day. We have to deal with the construction all day. Are we going to abide by the laws?  MR. FEBBO: Absolutely.  MR. FALVO: You can't start until  8:00. It's an ordinance.  MR. FEBBO: Absolutely. He does all  that.  MR. FALVO: It's not 7:00. It's  actually 8:00, because I can't even work on my  own house :  MR. FEBBO: Let me ask you this,  have you ever done his project, his  development?  MR. FALVO: No, but I've done  construction half my life.  MR. FEBBO: Okay. Take a ride down    50  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  his place :-  MR. FALVO: Oh, I've seen them. No,  I've seen them.  MR. FEBBO: Drive through the place,  especially at night.  MR. FALVO: But here's the thing,  I've seen it, it's beautiful. I'm not going to deny that it's not nice. I like the gas lamps.  It all looks good.  But at the same time we have to deal  with the construction. We have to deal with the potential tie-ins to our sewer and stuff.  MR. FEBBO: No, he's not coming to  your sewers. He's not coming to your sewers. Correct, Mr. Dunbar? Your sewers are not going  in 01d Forge lines?  MR. DUNBAR: (Inaudible response.) MR. FEBBO: He has his own private  sewers.  MR. FALVO: Okay. Now question :- MR. FEBBO: Give him a break. Talk  to the man personally :  MR. FALVO: Oh, no, I would love to  talk to him personally.  (Inaudible crosstalk.)    51  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. FEBBO: Everything you're  bringing up here, before it gets to Council here, everything goes through the zoning and  planning :  MR. FALVO: No, I understand. (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MR. FEBBO: -- it goes to a hearing.  Everything that you're bringing up, you people  are criticizing, we've done.  When it gets to Council for us to  decide on, we've got all the information from the people that were before us, our attorneys, our engineers. We don't just create it here  then vote on it.  MR. FALVO: I understand that. Like  I said, I've done construction half my life. I understand how everything works. I still have a book : books on zoning and ordinances.  MR. FEBBO: If you're construction,  give him a break and go down and take a look at  it.  MR. FALVO: Yeah.  MR. FEBBO: You'd be impressed. And  all he's going to do is enhance the value of  everybody's property there.    52  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. FALVO: That's good, Mr. Febbo,  but you keep cutting me off. My questions are, very quickly and I'17 wrap it up, soas Mr. Rinaldi said, it was put in the paper, it's 2023, put it online. We have a Borough website, like, why couldn't this stuff be on  there?  MR. RINALDI: The law says we have  to advertise it.  MR. FALVO: No, I understand it has  to be in the paper, but as citizens of the Borough, why wasn't it, for everybody here, why  wasn't it on the website?  MR. RINALDI: Because it has to be  advertised, Mike.  MR. FALVO: No, I understand. ATTY. RINALDI: We have to have  legal documentation.  (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MR. FALVO: But also putting it on  the news : putting it in the paper, I understand that, but at the same time, put it on the website. That's just my close.  MS. BUTRAM: The agenda was all put  on the website in compliance with the Sunshine    53  1 2 3 4 5  Act.  MR. FALVO: What's that? (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MR. RINALDI: Debbie. Debbie. (Inaudible crosstalk.)  MS. EMLAW: Don't speak, you'11 get  7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  yelled at.  MR. RINALDI: No, she won't get  yelled at, ma'am. The thing is we can't keep order with people just blurting out comments. I have a quick question for you, dear.  UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Dear? MR. RINALDI: Ma'am : MS. EMLAW: Dear?  UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What'd you call my  gir1, dear? Who are you?  MR. RINALDI: I said ma'am and then  s said dear.  UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No, no, you said  dear first.  MS. EMLAW: He said dear. Let's go.  UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You're  isrespectrul.  MR. RINALDI: That's disrespectful? UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, it's    54  1 2 3 4 5  disrespectful.  MS. EMLAW: You should change the  name of this town to Dunbar.  UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And you're a piece  of shit.  MS. EMLAW: Change it to Dunbar. MR. RINALDI: Anyone else from the  7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  public? Come up to the podium, please, Debbie.  DEBORAH BUTRAM, having been duly  sworn, was examined and testified as follows:  COURT REPORTER: Please state and  spell your full name.  MS. BUTRAM: Yeah. Deborah,  D-E-B-0-R-A-H, Butram, B-U-T-R-A-M.  COURT REPORTER: Thank you. MS. BUTRAM: Just for your  information, because I know, I always get on the Council about this, the Sunshine Act, they did put the agenda on the website within the required amount of time. Twenty-four hours before the meeting she has to put the agenda on the website for the Sunshine Act. And it was    55  1 2 3 4 5  on the agenda that they were doing this, and two things, I think, tonight, something else,  but this was definitely on there.  MR. FALVO: Yeah. MS. BUTRAM: Just FYI.  MR. FALVO: Yeah, that's why I'm  7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  here.  MR. RINALDI: Any members of the  public?  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: We have a motion, we  have a second. Roll call, MaryLynn.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato?  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler?  MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo?  MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Lettieri?  MR. LETTIERI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari?  MR. NOTARI: No.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi?    56  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. RINALDI: Yes. Second item  under new business is a motion to hire an executive secretary to the Borough manager.  MR. FEBBO: I'11 make that motion. MR. RINALDI: State the name. MR. FEBBO: My name? MR. RINALDI: No. The - MR. FEBBO: Oh. Sandy Capasso  (phonetic).  MR. RINALDI: Motion on the floor by  Councilman Febbo for Sandy Capasso. Seconded  by   MR. NOTARI: I'11 second it. MR. RINALDI: : Councilman Notari.  On the question?  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: Public input?  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: Roll call, please. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato?  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler?  MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo?    57  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Lettieri?  MR. LETTIERI: Yes.  MS. - BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari?  MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi? MR. RINALDI: Yes. Third item is  going to be a motion just to add this to the agenda. It's a motion to add an alternate zoning member to the vacant seat. This is just an alternate zoning member. This is just to  add it.  MR. NOTARI: Mr. Chairman, I'11 make  the motion to add to the agenda the naming of  an alternate zoning member.  MR. RINALDI: Motion on the floor by  Councilman Notari.  MS. AVVISATO: I'11 second that  motion.  MR. RINALDI: Second by Councilwoman  Avvisato. On the question?  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: Public input?  (No response.)    58  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. FALVO: What was that for? MR. RINALDI: This is a motion to  add an alternate zoning member. We have a vacancy. The Zoning Board is full, but then we have alternates we use in case members can't  make a meeting or such.  MR. FALVO: Okay.  MR. RINALDI: Roll call, please. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato?  MS. - AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler?  MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo?  MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Lettieri?  MR. LETTIERI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari?  MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi? MR. RINALDI: Yes. The Chair will  ask for a motion for a name to add as an alternate to the Zoning Board.  MR. NOTARI: Mr. Chairman, I'17 make    59  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  a motion to name Mark Palma (phonetic), Pine Street, 01d Forge, as an alternate to the  Zoning Board.  MR. RINALDI: Motion on the floor by  Councilman Notari for Mark Palma.  MR. BUTLER: I'11 second it.  MR. RINALDI: Seconded by Councilman  Butler. On the question?  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: Public input?  (No response.)  MR. RINALDI: Roll call, please. MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilwoman  Avvisato?  MS. AVVISATO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Butler?  MR. BUTLER: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Febbo?  MR. FEBBO: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman  Lettieri?  MR. LETTIERI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Notari?  MR. NOTARI: Yes.  MS. BARTOLETTI: Councilman Rinaldi?    60  1 2 3 4 5  MR. RINALDI: Yes. No more items on  the new business. The Chair will go around the table if Council has anything to add before we  adjourn. Councilman Febbo?  MR. FEBBO: No.  MR. RINALDI: Councilman Lettieri? MR. LETTIERI: Not this time. MR. RINALDI: Councilman Notari? MR. NOTARI: Nothing, Mr. Chairman. MR. RINALDI: Councilman Butler?  7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  MR. BUTLER: Nothing.  MR. RINALDI: Councilwoman Avvisato? MS. AVVISATO: I'm good. Thank you. MR. RINALDI: I have nothing at all.  George, congratulations on the LERTA.  MR. DUNBAR: Thank you very much. MR. RINALDI: You're welcome. MR. DUNBAR: I'd like to thank the  Borough Council for believing in me and believing in my projects. I want to invest in my community which I reside, and it's not only good for now but it's good for the future.  So, again, I thank you very much for  believing in me, in believing in what we're going to do down at Holly Ridge Estates. This    61  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25  is huge for me tonight.  MR. RINALDI: You're welcome. We  appreciate your comments. Chair will entertain  a motion to adjourn.  MS. AVVISATO: I11 make that motion. MR. RINALDI: Motion on the floor by  Councilwoman Avvisato. A11 in favor?  ALL MEMBERS: Aye.  MR. RINALDI: Good night everyone.  Thank you for coming.  (Meeting adjourned.)    62  1 2 3 4 5  CERTIFICATE  Ih hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence are contained fully and accurately in the notes taken by me of the above-cause and that this copy 6 is a correct transcript of the same to the best of my  7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23  ability.  Michelle Smolskis Official Court Reporter  ORIGINAL  (The foregoing certificate of this transcript does not 24 apply to any reproduction of the same by any means unless under the direct control and/or supervision of  25 the certifying reporter.)